Print

[alba caerulea]

really good knock. however, every player pretty much has one special knock you can point to. Bairstow for example has one.. Broad... Jennings... Balance.. all have one or two knocks. You use an average for a reason.. it's an indication of a player over the long term.

You've missed my point completely.

You say you hate white-ball and how it negatively impacts Test cricket.

But the Stokes knock was positively impacted by his white-ball game. Reverse sweeps, slog sweeps etc.

So did you enjoy that knock or no?

[ppccopener]

Wow someones in an aggressive mood today.

What I wrote about Ballance wasnt my opinion. The run of low scores is factual and can be checked via online scorecards.

The same about his mode of dismissal. Bowlers were targeting his front pad and he had no way of countering it. With that in mind he had become a walking wicket.

Dont think theres any need for your response just because I asked you a question. Which you still haven't answered

The run of low scores is factual, the average over 23 matches is factual and can also be checked via on line scorecards/websites.

I'll answer your question, No is the answer.

Unless a player is already in the national team and doesn't play CC cricket for the reason he is playing so much for England, they can only be picked by playing Championship cricket.Ballance has not played CC cricket at all in 2020 and had a missing part of the season the previous year.

So No it would not be right to be selected on that basis, otherwise the Championship would have no value to the test side.

If the above situation was not the case and GB had continue to average 45-50 in the CC yes I see no reason why he could not be considered.

Should the situation arise both Ballance 2021 and Crawley 2021/Lawrence 2021/Pope 2021 and you had to choose I would go with the younger player to move forward with.

I trust that answers your question fully.

[alba caerulea]

The run of low scores is factual, the average over 23 matches is factual and can also be checked via on line scorecards/websites.

I'll answer your question, No is the answer.

Unless a player is already in the national team and doesn't play CC cricket for the reason he is playing so much for England, they can only be picked by playing Championship cricket.Ballance has not played CC cricket at all in 2020 and had a missing part of the season the previous year.

So No it would not be right to be selected on that basis, otherwise the Championship would have no value to the test side.

If the above situation was not the case and GB had continue to average 45-50 in the CC yes I see no reason why he could not be considered.

Should the situation arise both Ballance 2021 and Crawley 2021/Lawrence 2021/Pope 2021 and you had to choose I would go with the younger player to move forward with.

I trust that answers your question fully.

Thanks. He wouldn't be in my team either.

[ProCricketer1982]

You've missed my point completely.

You say you hate white-ball and how it negatively impacts Test cricket.

But the Stokes knock was positively impacted by his white-ball game. Reverse sweeps, slog sweeps etc.

So did you enjoy that knock or no?

as an individual knock.. yes

That is a very special and rare knock though.. very very very very rare

[alba caerulea]

as an individual knock.. yes

That is a very special and rare knock though.. very very very very rare

So you enjoyed that knock that was massively influenced by all the white ball Stokes plays. Full of unorthodox limited overs shots. So do you hate white ball or no?

I think you have to take the rough with the smooth when it comes to the evolution of Test cricket. And accept its happening. Moaning is pointless

Yes the habit of playing at every ball makes techniques looser. But it also affects Test cricket positively, there have been some amazing knocks of late, counter attacking and 4th innings chases. And as someone else mentioned - bowlers are using T20 deliveries now in Test cricket aswell.

[ProCricketer1982]

So you enjoyed that knock that was massively influenced by all the white ball Stokes plays. Full of unorthodox limited overs shots. So do you hate white ball or no?

I think you have to take the rough with the smooth when it comes to the evolution of Test cricket. And accept its happening. Moaning is pointless

Yes the habit of playing at every ball makes techniques looser. But it also affects Test cricket positively, there have been some amazing knocks of late, counter attacking and 4th innings chases. And as someone else mentioned - bowlers are using T20 deliveries now in Test cricket aswell.

hahahahahhaha

if you think all the 'rough' of red ball is outweighed by the very very rare onslaught (which was pre-empted by solid defence and the right match situation - take his SA knock previous.. that was just flat track hitting for example and not enjoyable in a test) like that when done in the right circumstances then that's not 'rough with the smooth' but more 'rough with a very very very very rare smooth'

players have used different deliveries for years as a bowler

[ppccopener]

It's next to impossible to imagine Headingley 2019 would of happened without the influence of one day cricket in the way Stokes, Buttler or Root play the game.

KP reverse hit Murali for 6 a few times in a test match few years ago, Gatting got out the reverse sweep against spin way way back and first did it in a one day WC back in 1987.

Aside from that the test game until pretty recently has been pretty conventional method of scoring runs.

And that's leaving out some of the outfielding we see now compared to matches way back-both in tests and one dayers.

I don't  know how many members here remember us chasing a score in a test in Zimbabwe..it was the one we flipping murdered em but it was actually a drawn murdered series.

They stuck the fielders on the boundary and bowled wide of the stumps-we couldn't score the runs and the options were cut off

You can imagine that game played in 2021 the shots would not be the same and packing one side of the field probably would not work.

[alba caerulea]

hahahahahhaha

if you think all the 'rough' of red ball is outweighed by the very very rare onslaught (which was pre-empted by solid defence and the right match situation - take his SA knock previous.. that was just flat track hitting for example and not enjoyable in a test) like that when done in the right circumstances then that's not 'rough with the smooth' but more 'rough with a very very very very rare smooth'

players have used different deliveries for years as a bowler

Id say you were very much in the minority if you didn't enjoy the Stokes knock in SA. He upped the tempo considerably to give England more time to bowl SA out. Which they did late on the 5th afternoon! I honestly can't believe that any cricket 'fan' wouldnt enjoy and see the merits of that.

You really are quite a strange old fish

[billyb]

This is one of the strangest arguments I've seen on CBF.

Lockdown will soon be over, and it will be cricket time! 

[procricket]

Red ball white ball it the same really cricket has changed it got quicker more busy a bit like life really. Sport does immitate life.

I enjoy a 300 ball hundred like anybody but it the past mentioned influences I would say it life.

Techniques change but not much the main difference is players don't leave the ball as much any more.

As for this arguement on them spinning tops I suspect a 1930 test side top diamond arms and all  would struggle. I for one am enjoying the series it's a bit pot luck but the team with the better spinners are winning. It's test cricket teams come to England and expect lateral movement in India you expect spin. Test cricket has not changed you get tested out in all conditions and your mentality is tested just as much as your technique.

Bit like football we will have our return leg and produce wickets that suit the home side soon enough.

[FattusCattus]

My God - we're judging a lot of players on success in conditions that are totally alien, and expectations that are at best unrealistic.

Facing Ashwin and Axar on these pitches is a big ask - yes we could've done better, but some of these players (including batting against spin in SL) are on a hiding to nothing - this is not a realistic test of the skills of Sibley, Crawley, Pope and Lawrence.

I wager that Gill, Rahane, Pant and even possibly Kohli and Pujara would look as stupid as our boys if they batted at Trent Bridge, Edgbaston or a fresh Headingly against Broad, Jimmy, Woakes and Jof (not to exclude Sam Curran). These kids need time to develop in all conditions, over time - before we judge their careers.

[LEACHY48]

My God - we're judging a lot of players on success in conditions that are totally alien, and expectations that are at best unrealistic.

Facing Ashwin and Axar on these pitches is a big ask - yes we could've done better, but some of these players (including batting against spin in SL) are on a hiding to nothing - this is not a realistic test of the skills of Sibley, Crawley, Pope and Lawrence.

I wager that Gill, Rahane, Pant and even possibly Kohli and Pujara would look as stupid as our boys if they batted at Trent Bridge, Edgbaston or a fresh Headingly against Broad, Jimmy, Woakes and Jof (not to exclude Sam Curran). These kids need time to develop in all conditions, over time - before we judge their careers.

I totally agree - and I think Pope Crawley and Sibley should stay in the side and be allowed to develop.

Exclude Sri Lanka, where Root was on a different level and there is a consistent failure to score big runs. There has been more success under Silverwood in terms of batting application, but my real frustrations lie with our ability to totally capitulate.

Being bowled out by Tim Murtagh bowling 70 mph a couple of years ago highlights the issue imo. 

However - I hope that Sibley, Crawley, Pope, Bracey, and Lawrence all come good and develop into great players.

[ppccopener]

I totally agree - and I think Pope Crawley and Sibley should stay in the side and be allowed to develop.

Exclude Sri Lanka, where Root was on a different level and there is a consistent failure to score big runs. There has been more success under Silverwood in terms of batting application, but my real frustrations lie with our ability to totally capitulate.

Being bowled out by Tim Murtagh bowling 70 mph a couple of years ago highlights the issue imo. 

However - I hope that Sibley, Crawley, Pope, Bracey, and Lawrence all come good and develop into great players.

I think we are a better side now than that test a couple of years ago. I think some of us had a drawn series down as a great result for us, I suppose we are going to get the same type of pitch and we were in the game last time so 2-2 would be great away on these pitches.

In reality we may go down 3-1. Unfortunately IMO some of the papers have England potentially pulling out Pope from the game thinking he is all at sea.

I can see the thinking but I do hope we stick with these younger batsmen, these conditions are about as hard as it gets.

We know Bairstow was brought in and did have some good small knocks in SL, but if the team is to develop Pope,Lawrence,Crawley and Sibley need backing and if they get out cheaply so be it.

I'd be more hopeful if we stuck with the younger batsmen, I'm not sure about Burns but the rest look OK to me.

I don't think anyone else would of done better on these wickets,experienced or not.

[Manormanic]

In reality we may go down 3-1. Unfortunately IMO some of the papers have England potentially pulling out Pope from the game thinking he is all at sea.

I can see the thinking but I do hope we stick with these younger batsmen, these conditions are about as hard as it gets.

We know Bairstow was brought in and did have some good small knocks in SL, but if the team is to develop Pope,Lawrence,Crawley and Sibley need backing and if they get out cheaply so be it.

I'd be more hopeful if we stuck with the younger batsmen, I'm not sure about Burns but the rest look OK to me.

I don't think anyone else would of done better on these wickets,experienced or not.

I really hope they don't stand Pope down - personally I'm not sure I would stand any of the batsmen down because they would be circumstances in which doing so would be a massive black mark for years to come.  But particularly Pope because I genuinely don't think there was anything he could have done about those two dismissals.

[mo_town]

My God - we're judging a lot of players on success in conditions that are totally alien, and expectations that are at best unrealistic.

Facing Ashwin and Axar on these pitches is a big ask - yes we could've done better, but some of these players (including batting against spin in SL) are on a hiding to nothing - this is not a realistic test of the skills of Sibley, Crawley, Pope and Lawrence.

I wager that Gill, Rahane, Pant and even possibly Kohli and Pujara would look as stupid as our boys if they batted at Trent Bridge, Edgbaston or a fresh Headingly against Broad, Jimmy, Woakes and Jof (not to exclude Sam Curran). These kids need time to develop in all conditions, over time - before we judge their careers.

Ha ha...so when England batsmen fail it is about setting the wrong expectations where as when Indian batsmen fail in English conditions they are classed as flat track bullies!