Eng Vs New Zealand test matches
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Jimbo

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Re: Eng Vs New Zealand test matches
« Reply #330 on: June 13, 2021, 11:29:19 AM »

Definitely think changes need to be made for the first test against India, I’d like to see Jake Libby or Alex lees given a chance as they are the inform batsmen on the county circuit atm (although lees currently has a broken hand) I’d have malan in at number 3 and then a middle order of root, stokes, butler and foakes(wk). I don’t think we can continue to carry Pope after his recent run of form.

Agree Pope and Crawley could benefit from some time out of the spotlight.

Libby is an interesting one, seen a lot of commentators are impressed by him this year.
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Jeff Navarro

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Re: Eng Vs New Zealand test matches
« Reply #331 on: June 13, 2021, 11:34:43 AM »

If Buttler isn’t keeping is he really worth a place in the side?
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Jimbo

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Re: Eng Vs New Zealand test matches
« Reply #332 on: June 13, 2021, 11:40:21 AM »

If Buttler isn’t keeping is he really worth a place in the side?

His record at 6 is pretty decent IIRC.
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ppccopener

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Re: Eng Vs New Zealand test matches
« Reply #333 on: June 13, 2021, 11:42:27 AM »

Chances are Butler will be back with the gloves as they will want to pack the side as much as possible.

If you look at the last 2 years Butler has been consistent with the bat and played some good test match innings.
He surprised me will changing between the formats so well.

Vaughan just said on BBC Malan is a possible for the number 3 slot, against him he not a great team man…
Hmmm. I hope there is no issue other than ability when it comes to selection

We went thru this with KP.. yes fault of both sides with him admittedly
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Buzz

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Re: Eng Vs New Zealand test matches
« Reply #334 on: June 13, 2021, 02:09:31 PM »

Vaughan is a moron of the highest order. How can he possibly say Malan is not a team man. Just click bait bs.
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Jimbo

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Re: Eng Vs New Zealand test matches
« Reply #335 on: June 13, 2021, 02:17:21 PM »

Vaughan is a moron of the highest order. How can he possibly say Malan is not a team man. Just click bait bs.

Based on him forgetting there was one ball to come and not two, and not running a bye? Agree, typical Vaughan (No Swearing Please).
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ppccopener

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Re: Eng Vs New Zealand test matches
« Reply #336 on: June 13, 2021, 02:38:43 PM »

You would like to think if it’s a number 3 we desperately need(it is) one incident in a game would not count against him.
I thought Denly should of toured India, he was dumped maybe at 3 we do need a more experienced player to go in there.

Then the middle order is easier to work at. Root won’t move from 4, Lawrence or Pope maybe 5, Stokes 6. At least that looks in the right order.

Players are no different to us, they may have character traits which mean they are not so popular. I do think we should of learned from KP.

We all work and maybe play with people we would not have a drink with down the pub…should pro sports not be more tolerant?

It’s not a village match the aim is to win, there’s not loads of quality waiting to come into the side I don’t think.

Maybe England have been ‘too matey’ in the past, perhaps that does need changing
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Jeff Navarro

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Re: Eng Vs New Zealand test matches
« Reply #337 on: June 13, 2021, 09:30:01 PM »

Surely Sliverwood and co have to look at Joe Clarke soon? He made some mistakes off the field. But surely he deserves an opportunity if they ever let him off the naughty step. He’s got 17 red ball hundreds.
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stamper

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Re: Eng Vs New Zealand test matches
« Reply #338 on: June 13, 2021, 11:17:05 PM »

I think we're now suffering the fallout from the ECB focus on winning the World Cup.  Bloody Bobby Moore and Nobby Stiles.

As for Malan, team player etc etc, someone posted earlier, the idea of Professional Sport is that you don't have huge selection issues and result fallouts from players sticking their tongues out at each other behind the Captain's back, or players telling their mates to gang up on another because they smell.  England haven't managed that in a couple of decades.  Australia did.
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FattusCattus

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Re: Eng Vs New Zealand test matches
« Reply #339 on: June 14, 2021, 08:17:03 AM »

I'm going to say it.................

I don't think Anderson and Broad are an attacking enough opening bowling partnership and I don't think they get enough early wickets. I think it's time we rotate them or put Broad down to first change.

I also think that people think Pope is mustard, but I think he lacks the mental ability to bat properly at test level.

I also think some of these youngsters will never make a proper top 3 whilst County Cricket is so marginalised

I also think, even though he is one, Root has no confidence in captaining a spinner


...........there you go - you can all shout me down now!
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: Eng Vs New Zealand test matches
« Reply #340 on: June 14, 2021, 08:27:22 AM »

Fed up already of seeing Bairstow being touted again as a test match batsmen.. I mean.. how many times does a guy have to fail before being told to sling his hook....

Ali - I mean, lovely guy but really not good enough

Curran -  Again... I know people love a trier but Jesus... if he's some form of Test match player then please please admit that stocks are very very limited and stop beating the 'world class' 'on the up' drum

Buttler - I really do admire his determination in red ball to try and bat like a test match batter tbf. Can't fault him for that.. Effort A+.. He's just not that good. Foakes is the keeper and Buttler doesn't avg 40 so again... please move on from England being any good whilst he is in the side

Stokes - Fair enough. Nailed on number 5 but lets not get too carried away again.. he STILL doesn't avg 40+.. How many of the NZ batters for example DON'T average 40+... not many


Seeing too many people blaming rotation.. blaming the loss of the IPL players... seriously !!!  Only stokes is missing from this team.. Woakes you can make a case for but for Woakes to play, you're dropping wood/Anderson or Broad. Apart from that.. literally no one else would make it any better unless you're a ECB PR monkey who believes the hype on the likes of Bairstow/Curran/Ali et all.

This isn't an un-expected result of years of producing white ball players who dabble at county level in red ball... It's not a shock.. it's predictable and again, you'll all say I'm being negative but if you only produce hitters.. you can't expect to produce test match batters or even bowlers (as they also learn white ball bowling instead of red ball bowling).

sigh.

Luckily for England, the other nations aren't actually that much better so it's not as obvious.
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Wozaboxa

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Re: Eng Vs New Zealand test matches
« Reply #341 on: June 14, 2021, 08:36:59 AM »

four conventional right arm over bowlers for me is the problem, the oppo batsmen are never unsettled as it's all so predictable.
You look at the NZ attack and they all have that little variation whether it's just Left hand, speed, control etc... giving the England batsmen something to think about, plus that and we batted like divs.
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: Eng Vs New Zealand test matches
« Reply #342 on: June 14, 2021, 08:55:21 AM »

Thanks for the high praise for NZ  :D

Burns looks ok, at least he tries to score. Crawley gone, Sibley (Terrible technique and no intent to score) gone, Pope Id persevere with he looks good but gets out, Lawrence gone (Looks very average).

Surely in the whole of England there must be some better batsman. I'm not saying you should pick T20 players but everytime I watch that I see some amazing players. With the talent in T20's there must be some talent in Red ball cricket? Are there any older journeyman that are still carving up First class level? Get Darren Stevens in I say.

so - Burns stays because he 'looks to score'.. you know that in test cricket whilst looking to score is good... you also, you know.. need to bat time CONSISTENTLY so that you soften the ball, make bowlers bowl 3-4-5 spells so that your middle order stroke makers (aka, the ones who 'look to score') can pick off runs EASIER (which suits them as otherwise they'll get exposed more regularly).. he's scored runs though so fair enough

Sibley - GONE.. no intent to score.... So Test teams and England NEED someone to bat time... Sure Sibley is never going to be a world beater (although I'm sure the England fans after a few runs will claim him to be like we do everyone else after a purple patch) but he's there to do a job. His job at the top of the order is not expose the middle order (which is FLAKY!!). If he does that by being 30* off 130 balls.. so what. THAT IS WHY YOU HAVE A MIDDLE ORDER of stroke makers to make hey when the going is easier

Crawley - Just doesn't really look good enough but unless you're throwing in Malan... There is LITERALLY NO ONE ELSE (if I see another call for Root, stokes, Bairstow, Pope then I'll assume that person really doesn't get Test match cricket and ignore them)

Pope - lIke everyone.. love the way he looks.. BUT.. JUST LIKE Bell in a way but also just like modern players... He's being too flashy.. to many shots.. to much 'intent'... He needs to remember it's a 5 day test match.. score when the bad balls are there, if they aren't... leave and defend.. this 'has all the talent' crap is just that.. good for a little while but he's now living off 'potential'.. time to deliver or get lost

Lawrence.. he's flavour of the month I see cause he got some runs. Lets see what his avg is after a longer period in different conditions before lauding him too much.


Amazing talent in 2020/ODI is TOTALLY TOTALLY different to Longer formats for christ sake.. Just cause Jacks for example and slog a few balls miles doesn't mean he's got the talent for longer formats.. if anything, excluding a true top end talent.. it quite literally means the opposite. The reason there are 'so many' talented white ball hitters is.. money.. It's where the money is for businessmen so they've prioritised the production line for those players. Could they have been top end longer format players.. Very likely.. but it's too late.. once you grow up only playing short formats you learn the skills for that, the mentality for that..

people may disagree but it's the same at amateur level.. They are dumbing down the game to shorter win lose formats (which people claim to be 'more fun', less 'dull' games') and then wonder why the level is worse and the tactics/skill sets are declining.. plus, just as many dull one sided games. If you only play short formats.. you will lose all the skills sets and abilities of being able top lay longer games (as a batter, bowler and captain)


The pro game isn't going to go back to longer formats now.. it's to invested in money making with businessmen/women at the top who are only concerned with getting every $$$ they can and the cricket really is just the 'product'. If they can keep the beer drinking , not really cricket fans filling the 'hollies' game in game out.. they are happy as pig in muck.

people really need to realise that the formats are generally great for diversity and giving a full spectrum of opportunity to players (who lets face it, have different enjoyments/skills which are suited to different formats) but also, the formats fit into different times of the week/day (aka.. 2020 is great for evening stuff for the kids post school or the beer heads before their Friday night out etc).. The formats suit DIFFERENT types of players, different skill sets/mentalities . The game needs all three formats as it caters for all types of players/abilities/interests but by moving the entire game basically towards 2020 styles it's not only limiting participation but also skills/interest and ultimately.. produces the same type of player.. aka.. hitters.. what is the difference really now between Bairstow, hales, roy, jacks, Warner, banton et all...   realistically.. nothing.. all pretty much of a much in terms of what they can do 'on their day'..
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: Eng Vs New Zealand test matches
« Reply #343 on: June 14, 2021, 09:00:05 AM »

I'm going to say it.................

I don't think Anderson and Broad are an attacking enough opening bowling partnership and I don't think they get enough early wickets. I think it's time we rotate them or put Broad down to first change.

I also think that people think Pope is mustard, but I think he lacks the mental ability to bat properly at test level.

I also think some of these youngsters will never make a proper top 3 whilst County Cricket is so marginalised

I also think, even though he is one, Root has no confidence in captaining a spinner


...........there you go - you can all shout me down now!

Sadly.. agree on Broad/Anderson

The top 3  - agree but at the same time... There isn't anyone better and Bairstow and co should be nowhere near 3.. well, he shouldn't be near a test side but hey ho.. calls for him are back I see..

Root as captain.. we know (or anyone sensible does) he isn't very good but he's a nice bloke and there isn't anyone better.. If anyone says Stokes then unless he's giving up bowling (which he should as his body is knackered) then it's waaaay too much. Plus tbf, England need him to give up white ball to preserve his body for tests.. or vice versa if he's only interested in cash.
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edge

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Re: Eng Vs New Zealand test matches
« Reply #344 on: June 14, 2021, 09:02:12 AM »

I don't think Anderson and Broad are an attacking enough opening bowling partnership and I don't think they get enough early wickets. I think it's time we rotate them or put Broad down to first change.
This has been an uncomfortable truth for years now, their opening spells are very defensive. Unless it's a real green seamer I'm not sure there's the same value in playing them together anymore.

Pope seems to me to bat like he finds domestic cricket too easy and struggles to adapt his natural rhythm to test level bowling when he can't dominate all the time. Not unusual, you would think he'd really benefit from playing in a more experienced side. Stokes and Buttler back in makes things look a lot better, then we're back to just the traditional top three problems!
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