Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #810 on: December 28, 2021, 09:24:12 PM »

Still nobody's looking beyond changing the players and/or the coach! Who the hell are we going to change them for?




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billyb

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #811 on: December 28, 2021, 10:16:24 PM »

One grassroots level suggestion - one two-day game a season, perhaps between local rivals or something.

A local test match, if you will. In Australia they play a LOT of two day matches.
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potzy248

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #812 on: December 28, 2021, 11:13:00 PM »

Your teams seem to be good blokes. I maybe unqualified to say but I can't see too many dick heads in your set up at that moment.

How did England and Ireland's Rugby teams get to where they are now? They used to be easy beats but now we (The All Blacks) often lose to them. Maybe look down that path.
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Kane Williamson for Prime Minister.

SouthpawMark

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #813 on: December 28, 2021, 11:48:15 PM »

The cricket season lasts 23-24 weeks. 10 CC matches per season in decent conditions shouldn’t prove that difficult. One in April, two in May, two in June, one in July, one in August, three in September. Done.

Bin the 50 over comp. Make the format international only, as let’s face it, if you’re a 20 over slogger you’re going to be earmarked by the ECB as a 50 over slogger.

Produce pitches that require bowlers to bend their backs and that accept spin after a couple of days. End the era of green tops - all they do is prolong careers of 45 year old trundles.
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Bat perv.

SurreySam

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #814 on: December 29, 2021, 12:06:24 AM »

Boland has done alright opening his test account at 32. Personally I think a bit more age/cricket experience in our red ball side is necessary.
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #815 on: December 29, 2021, 12:27:09 AM »

Did someone say something about a "no dickheads" rule?
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SouthpawMark

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #816 on: December 29, 2021, 12:30:37 AM »

Boland has done alright opening his test account at 32. Personally I think a bit more age/cricket experience in our red ball side is necessary.
Boland was a horses for courses pick, and has a decent chance of being a one test wonder. Identifying, backing and persevering with younger players is the way forward. However, strength in depth is key. There’s no point identifying and backing players because they are the least bad of a shallow pool of players. Look where that has gotten us with Sibley, Hameed, Crawley, Pope etc. They are the best of a bad bunch, and in any previous era would be nowhere near the test side.
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Bat perv.

Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #817 on: December 29, 2021, 12:34:01 AM »

Boland was a horses for courses pick, and has a decent chance of being a one test wonder. Identifying, backing and persevering with younger players is the way forward. However, strength in depth is key. There’s no point identifying and backing players because they are the least bad of a shallow pool of players. Look where that has gotten us with Sibley, Hameed, Crawley, Pope etc. They are the best of a bad bunch, and in any previous era would be nowhere near the test side.

You don't half chat some rubbish. Go and watch some cricket.
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SurreySam

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #818 on: December 29, 2021, 01:00:26 AM »

You don't half chat some rubbish. Go and watch some cricket.

 :D  lol...people in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones.
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SurreySam

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #819 on: December 29, 2021, 01:06:07 AM »

Boland was a horses for courses pick, and has a decent chance of being a one test wonder. Identifying, backing and persevering with younger players is the way forward. However, strength in depth is key. There’s no point identifying and backing players because they are the least bad of a shallow pool of players. Look where that has gotten us with Sibley, Hameed, Crawley, Pope etc. They are the best of a bad bunch, and in any previous era would be nowhere near the test side.

The trouble is they've already walked that path. They have chosen stats/youth for our test cricket and that hasn't worked.

We are in dire straits with the red ball and need a new regime, learn from our white ball success and implement that single mindedness to our red ball setup.
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Real Munson

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #820 on: December 29, 2021, 11:58:01 AM »

Our batting has been very poor for some time.

Who is coaching the batting?

What are the batters doing in the nets to change this?

Perhaps there is no desire for change or an inability to see the truth.

Is the captain and coach addressing the group to try to change things and are they being listened to?

Something doesn't add up here - if I represented England and was being paid £210k per year plus endorsements, I would make damn f*cking sure I didn't lose the gig. and I listened to my wise coaches, about what was required to succeed

Ergo - wrong players or wrong coaches

Perhaps it's the coaching at county level/County academy level that needs addressing. It's too late to change technical things the week of a test isn't it? We bring players to the England set-up with flawed techniques - why isn't that being addressed by the county coach?

I think Crawley is a fantastic player - but he seems to have a closed bat face all the time and doesn't play straight enough from what I've seen.
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Manormanic

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #821 on: December 29, 2021, 01:25:04 PM »

Some of the comments about technical deficiencies amongst our younger players fail to fully understand the situation that has created them, namely the fact that first class cricket has been forced to the extremities of the season and, even when this process had not been completed, the promotion relegation imperative had not been well enough regulated, so Counties were getting away with producing deliberately poor pitches to force results.  In such an environment, there is no shock that medium pacers who can make the ball talk take precedence over lean quicks who maybe just sit in the surface to be hit, nor is it a surprise that many batsmen adopt a mindset of "get some, before they get me".

Even when games are in the right part of the year, how many grounds produce good sporting pitches with pace and carry?  I reckon from the cricket I have seen over the last five years that there are less than a handful left, and even the few that produce consistent bounce tend now to overly favour the batsmen (The Oval, I'm looking at you!)

Case in point - James Vince.   A man with a Test career behind him that he would like, one imagines, to repurpose in front of him.  Knowing that the most available slots in the England side were in the top three, he chose last year to move himself DOWN the batting order at Hampshire.  One can only conclude that he felt he had more chance of convincing the selectors that he could move those runs up the order in Tests, than he had to actually score runs in the top three...

Second case in point - Ollie Pope.  Its easy on recent form to suppose, as many of you have, that he is a busted flush, or that he was never of the required level in the first place.  I thought about that view myself long and hard but I always come back to the hundred he made against Yorkshire a couple of years ago - against a top quality attack, on a difficult pitch he was simply in a different class to anyone else.  My conclusion was that his issues largely stem from playing at The Oval because on a deck that benign, you can just walk down the wicket to quicks a few balls in because the ball is going nowhere!
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Real Munson

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #822 on: December 29, 2021, 02:52:32 PM »

You can only play what you've got. If Kent produced their own Pat Cummins, I'm sure he'd play above the medium-fast they currently have. Fact is, we don't. In fact Kent's last home grown capped "quick" was Matt Coles, in 2012. Prior to that is was Alan Igglesden in 1989! That's pretty poor for a county with the population of Kent.

Australia currently just have better players to choose from, especially on the batting front. Our batsman don't seem to have a basic defence needed to succeed, whether you are facing Starc on a fairly flat one at Adelaide or Darren Stevens in swinging/seaming conditions at Canterbury.

I was quite encouraged by this team after the last South Africa tour , where they came back from 1-0 down and seemed to be learning to score big first innings runs against a decent South African attack. However they have seemingly gone rapidly downhill since the India tour this year. Perhaps their confidence is shot to bits or the environment isn't very good. Who knows.
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ppccopener

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #823 on: December 29, 2021, 03:20:07 PM »

The India tour you refer to was the start of a rest and rotation policy which some of us understood was needed due to covid and the time spent in bubbles. It seemed to work out the rotation was prioritised for one day cricket so all format players would not miss the short form.

So Root had his hands tied from that tour onwards and perhaps why some of us have sympathy with his position still knowing he is not a very good Captain.

I’m convinced we need a management change rather than the merry go round of player changes.
I don’t look at the England team and say this or that player should play instead.

I hope we have a new coach and management structure for the WI tour with Buttler Bairstow and Burns replaced by the young batsmen already identified. And the best keeper in the Country.
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Real Munson

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #824 on: December 29, 2021, 04:29:23 PM »

I'd love Buttler to succeed - I think he would have done in the Strauss/Cook/Trott etc. era when he could have been coming in with the score 250/300 for 5 and could play his natural aggressive game. Sadly that has never transpired as the top 5 as a unit have constantly failed to deliver. As things stand, I'd think Foakes should be playing.

If Buttler/Bairstow and Stokes want to succeed at test level, then I think they need to sacrifice the IPL money and play some red ball county cricket. The test arena isn't the place to learn on the job.
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