Topic: Modern trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next? (Read 4800 times)

Ayrtek Cricket · « **Reply #45 on:** December 01, 2022, 11:17:22 AM »

Quote from: Thamesvalley on December 01, 2022, 10:22:23 AM

Where�s it all going ? Higher prices just seen wcw released a new bat a 675 quid �

Jeez prices are insane

Still �75 cheaper than the other Taunton based brands top end bat!

marsbug · « **Reply #46 on:** December 01, 2022, 11:53:42 AM »

Quote from: InternalTraining on November 30, 2022, 10:42:49 PM

These "GA optimized" and "Hybrid optimized" shapes were made by Laver. I am not sure if they still make them.

What does "fixed support" mean in the green colored bat?

Laver and Wood have made a few bats (e.g. Ultra) that have some similarities with those shapes I posted, but they don't have the weird high double scoops or massive concaving. Anyone ever used one of the L&W bats with slightly out there shapes?

And 'fixed support' is just to do with their model, nothing to do with the shape. Basically where the hands go, with the pivot point in between.

Jimbo · « **Reply #47 on:** December 01, 2022, 02:07:26 PM »

Quote from: Thamesvalley on December 01, 2022, 10:22:23 AM

Where�s it all going ? Higher prices just seen wcw released a new bat a 675 quid �

Jeez prices are insane

I'd imagine in part to cover the huge increase in energy bills that a manufacturing business will be facing. Add in higher shopping costs, increased demand for willow and subsequent higher prices, etc and I can see why businesses are having to jack up prices.

Even more reason to shop with the guys who charge such good prices on the forum!

Thamesvalley · « **Reply #48 on:** December 01, 2022, 02:31:12 PM »

Interesting , without knowing their costs hard to comment but it bats are going to standard 400 plus we�re all stuffed well most of us anyway

jonny77 · « **Reply #49 on:** December 01, 2022, 03:16:27 PM »

Quote from: Thamesvalley on November 30, 2022, 04:53:55 PM

I�m not particularly into big bats

I do like a certain weight, and more often than not it suits.

I get the whole pick up thing but I don�t get on with bats generally at 2.11 which pick up 2.9

I�m not even fussy about grains , a 37mm edge and 61 circa spine grade 3 isn�t asking for much and wanting it to ping

Out of interest, do you lok for those specs at 2lbs 9oz or 2lbs 11oz?

jonny77 · « **Reply #50 on:** December 01, 2022, 03:22:38 PM »

Quote from: Thamesvalley on December 01, 2022, 02:31:12 PM

Interesting , without knowing their costs hard to comment but it bats are going to standard 400 plus we�re all stuffed well most of us anyway

Think their Chaos you were looking at a few months ago was the same price, so no difference. Geography has something to do with it too, as Tom said it's still cheaper than another major brand in that area. If people are used to paying that and can afford it, then it's not high for that market.

Bats aren't �400 as standard tho, and neither are theirs. This is again going back to supply and demand. The premium is generally for the grainy, light bats, not the Grade 3s. If people accept thst a Grade 3 with 32mm edges, wider grains and a few blemishes is still going to be a perfectly good bat for them and their needs, then they don't have to pay that sort of money. Plenty of good value, well made bats at lower prices.

The clamour for grains, size etc is driving the pricing. If they didn't sell, they wouldn't be priced at that amount!

InternalTraining · « **Reply #51 on:** December 01, 2022, 06:00:21 PM »

Quote from: marsbug on December 01, 2022, 11:53:42 AM

Anyone ever used one of the L&W bats with slightly out there shapes?

I own a bunch of them. They feel great in hand though...extremely well balanced.

Jaffa · « **Reply #52 on:** December 01, 2022, 07:01:41 PM »

I can appreciate the trend towards fuller profiles but can someone explain to me how a GN Scoop profile works?

To my eyes it shouldn't work as you're taking the meat away from the hitting area but it works. I borrowed one from a teammate and I was surprised how well it went.

Chad · « **Reply #53 on:** December 01, 2022, 08:06:36 PM »

From what I can see, modern trends are leaning towards absolutely maximising the volume of the bat, especially in the hitting zone, and not considering the compromises you'll have to make, and what it means for the longevity of the bat, and the longevity of the performance. We've went from Traditional smaller edged and higher spined profiles to thicker edged, medium spine and concaved to smaller spine, thick edge and convex to suddenly trying to break the gauge with a convex profile with high spine, thick edge. In the end, handles, toes and shoulders are being made incredibly thin to meet these expectations. Bat costs have to go up to try cover the warranty nightmares you'll get from reducing the amount of material you have in these vulnerable areas. I love big bats as much as anyone, however have to accept that I'll have to use bats around the 2.10-2.13 mark, as I don't want to compromise on these areas of the bats. I'm guessing the pros are that bats might not be pressed like rocks to last, as that would reduce the volume you can give, and that the volume may give you confidence that you're wielding a club. Cons are, they just don't last nearly as long, cost triple the amount from 15-20 years ago for high end bats, and if you find a bat you like, well, chances are it'll break soon, so enjoy it while you can! Do they perform better than older bats do? I'm not too sure...

I think Marc at @sarg mentioned on his 10,000 Subscriber video about Pro bats/low density bats (Something along the lines of) - these are the best players in the world. The best timers of the ball, and have poured in thousands of hours to hone their technique and strength etc. Feel free to chase after these 'pro specs', but ask yourself, do you really deserve something that's cream of the crop?

Quote from: Thamesvalley on December 01, 2022, 02:31:12 PM

Interesting , without knowing their costs hard to comment but it bats are going to standard 400 plus we�re all stuffed well most of us anyway

In terms of prices, yes, they're high for sure - if you focus on top end bats. Unfortunately, the demand for high end bats has been there for a while, and makers will have higher prices for them to try make as much money out of them as possible, but also help to make the lower end product more appealing. In the end, wood is a natural product, and you will get a higher proportion of lower grades than top grade. Just the way it works with blemishes etc.

Trying to go back to thinking like I did when I bought my first few bats. IIRC, they were...

GM Purist 303 - �80 - loved the stickers
Kookaburra Genesis Tornado - �160 - loved the stickers and pick up
Kookaburra Wild Beast - �100 - Scotland player in my year at school got one, so I thought I'd improve if I got one
Hunts County Steelback 5 star - �100
Hunts County Mettle - �80
Gray Nicolls Phoenix Pro Performance - �220 (Got in a trade)

In reality, the prices have maybe went up very little for bats like he Purist 303, as the Radon is about the same price. The bats like the Tornado would probably sell for around �320 these days. (Was the model below the Hurricane, so G2) Wild Beast would be around the �150 mark, and the Phoenix Pro Performance would sell for around the �450 mark these days. A price increase over 16 years is to be expected, afterall bats take longer to make now, cost of living has gone up, willow prices have gone up etc. (The late John Gasson mentioned making up near enough 100 bats in a day back when shapes were simpler)

Things that actually influenced by purchase weren't so much the shape, but more the price, if anyone in my cricket club used them successfully, and stickers. I went with what my friends told me was good, and what I saw on TV. I remember being told by my mates who I played street cricket with that Kookaburra bats were the best and lightest - AFTER I had bought the GM Purist. And remember our now 1st team captain plundering runs in u15s using a Hunts County, and then going for that.

This was all a time before Social Media, and just about at the dawn of internet purchasing etc. Problem is, with Social Media, batmakers are always going to try showcase their best bats. They're always going to promote big looking bats they've made, from perhaps special pieces of willow. Retailers are going to show off bats that fill the bat gauge and are under 2lb 10oz. Potential customers are going to see that, and think that it's the best bat for them to get. So what do batmakers/brands do? They have to compete with each other to try provide what people deem is a superior product.

Batmakers are always going to be fighting an uphill battle to try educate their customers.

It doesn't guarantee a sale - time is money. The more time they spend answering questions etc, less time making bats. And with social media being what it is, it's incredibly easy to not realise you're sending tonnes of messages and disrupting their workflow.
It takes quite a lot of energy at times, as many potential customers will test your patience.
Try convincing someone they're wrong to think that a 40mm edge will help them score more runs, or that a gauge busting 50mm splice and 35mm toe in at 2.10 aren't really possible.

I'd say the gauge has helped provide somewhat of a standard that bats should be made to - unfortunately, I'd say it's had an adverse effect on expectations - in that the gauge is seen as a target rather than an absolute limit. Pre-gauge, you had people scoring runs for fun using a Salix Pod, Newbery Thruxton, B52 Bombers, M&H Solutions etc etc. Some of these are still floating around and scoring hundreds, if not thousands. Were they huge bats or did they break the gauge? (Maybe width wise they did) No, especially compared to the lumps we get today. Thing is, bats we get today probably wouldn't last for anywhere near as long as them modern classics due to compromises having to be made to suit market perception rather than what the batmaker's experience tells them makes a solid bat.

Author Topic: Modern trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next? (Read 4800 times)

Ayrtek Cricket

Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?

marsbug

Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?

Jimbo

Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?

Thamesvalley

Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?

jonny77

Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?

jonny77

Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?

InternalTraining

Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?

Jaffa

Re: Modern trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?

Chad

Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?