Topic: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution? (Read 5364 times)

thegowerwaft · « **Reply #15 on:** January 14, 2024, 12:19:18 PM »

Real problem when you want to try a range of options. Went to a big store last year (mid season) and they only had 2.8/ 2.9 bats.

Had the money to buy a bat and needed one (broken bat rather than CBF obsession driven purchase) but walked away without buying because nothing grabbed interest - I would, politely, suggest due to lack of options.

Ayrtek Cricket · « **Reply #16 on:** January 14, 2024, 12:55:51 PM »

jonny77 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 14, 2024, 01:04:03 PM »

Quote from: Ayrtek Cricket on January 14, 2024, 09:36:20 AM

Yeh that�s the issue IMO, the amount of times someone says they want a 2.8 specifically then asks for a second grip to be added as they are about to leave 🤣 so that�ll be 2.10 in the end then!

So we're saying a certain batmaker and ex regular contributor to this forum has some valid points? 😆

procricket · « **Reply #18 on:** January 14, 2024, 01:49:50 PM »

It a funny one this topic.

I guess if you are a big brand you get volume of wood and get lower density.

All your all doing is going down the Alfred route which is valid to a degree about thick handle and balance point.

I feel smaller bat makers are at a disadvantage in this whole episode because they simply get what others don�t want hence the lack of 40mm edge full profile at 2/8.

However as I know Johnny does balance a bat and that�s I guess the trade off even if the bats heavier by general consensus

Issue and only issue which doesn�t now effect me as it once did (old age and lack of quality) 2/12 bat over a hour or so is 2/12 whilst a 2/8 will over time not wear you out as much and you can hold your shape for longer.

It a great debate though dead weight v pick up weight makers who have access to light wood and quantities to them who get given what they get given.

As for weight I have also gone by if it still confident and hold your shape after a net session 30 minutes on it usable.

Also think the weight issue is a strange one I look at players who are more punch then fast hands so if your a puncher you may go heavier whilst if you have fast hands you may go lighter.

All opinions mind I know good bats come from all places and bat weight are very subjective

jonny77 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 14, 2024, 09:22:36 PM »

Quote from: procricket on January 14, 2024, 01:49:50 PM

It a funny one this topic.

I guess if you are a big brand you get volume of wood and get lower density.

All your all doing is going down the Alfred route which is valid to a degree about thick handle and balance point.

I feel smaller bat makers are at a disadvantage in this whole episode because they simply get what others don�t want hence the lack of 40mm edge full profile at 2/8.

However as I know Johnny does balance a bat and that�s I guess the trade off even if the bats heavier by general consensus

Issue and only issue which doesn�t now effect me as it once did (old age and lack of quality) 2/12 bat over a hour or so is 2/12 whilst a 2/8 will over time not wear you out as much and you can hold your shape for longer.

It a great debate though dead weight v pick up weight makers who have access to light wood and quantities to them who get given what they get given.

As for weight I have also gone by if it still confident and hold your shape after a net session 30 minutes on it usable.

Also think the weight issue is a strange one I look at players who are more punch then fast hands so if your a puncher you may go heavier whilst if you have fast hands you may go lighter.

All opinions mind I know good bats come from all places and bat weight are very subjective

I get where you're coming from on the willow, but to say the small batmakers just get the willow others don't want, certainly isn't true in my case. I can assure anyone, I get good quality willow from a small supplier who I work closely with. He doesn't deal with the big brands as they generally already have their own supply, but has dealt with Wrights. So to say smaller makers get 'cast offs' essentially, is a more than a bit harsh mate tbh.

Obviously, if you buy 100 Clefts, you'll get a percentage of light willow. You but 1000, you'll get more lighter clefts, but not necessarily a larger percentage. I see plenty of bats from the big brands which are nowhere near gauge fillers at 2lbs 10z, let alone 2lbs 12oz. Us smaller makers don't have to make bats which are 2lbs 12oz to get them big, just as the big brands don't just only make gauge fillers at 2lbs 8oz either.

All this said, not sure how many times it needs to be stated that a bat doesn't have to be ultra light and fill the gauge to be good either!

procricket · « **Reply #20 on:** January 14, 2024, 09:46:53 PM »

No you�re right it was a bit harsh but most small makers get what there given your right it was harsh saying all.

You make a good bat for sure and can balance a bat but my point was smaller makers struggle to give you 2/8 big bats and in truth so do a lot of shops or batmakers but willow growers and bigger users/buyers have the advantage

I do know though drying techniques are changing for sure and the argument between natural low density and overdried density is another ploy for another day.

I have used mainly 2/8 I agree I can use heavier but if I bat along time no matter how well balanced a bat a 2/12 bat is still a 2/12 bat and the arms creek!

Your last point is very true not just big bats make good bats good bats come in all shapes and sizes.

Light clefts making big full profiles at 2/8 are rocking horse for all companys

jonny77 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 14, 2024, 10:13:50 PM »

Quote from: procricket on January 14, 2024, 09:46:53 PM

No you�re right it was a bit harsh but most small makers get what there given your right it was harsh saying all.

You make a good bat for sure and can balance a bat but my point was smaller makers struggle to give you 2/8 big bats and in truth so do a lot of shops or batmakers but willow growers and bigger users/buyers have the advantage

I do know though drying techniques are changing for sure and the argument between natural low density and overdried density is another ploy for another day.

I have used mainly 2/8 I agree I can use heavier but if I bat along time no matter how well balanced a bat a 2/12 bat is still a 2/12 bat and the arms creek!

Your last point is very true not just big bats make good bats good bats come in all shapes and sizes.

Light clefts making big full profiles at 2/8 are rocking horse for all companys

Just wanted to clarify, as putting comments which basically state small batmakers are making from cast off willow could get pretty damaging to them and to be honest, I don't be think it's actually accurate or fair tbh mate.

As for 2lbs 8oz gauge fillers at full width with good sized handles and the right moisture content, I think most would struggle to produce those on a consistent basis. Not sure why 2lbs 12oz keeps getting brought up either, we can and do all make good sized bats at all weights. However, I certainly feel most can easily use bats heavier than 2lbs 8oz. Batting for 30 minutes in the nets is very different to batting out in the middle.

procricket · « **Reply #22 on:** January 14, 2024, 10:29:00 PM »

Quote from: jonny77 on January 14, 2024, 10:13:50 PM

Just wanted to clarify, as putting comments which basically state small batmakers are making from cast off willow could get pretty damaging to them and to be honest, I don't be think it's actually accurate or fair tbh mate.

As for 2lbs 8oz gauge fillers at full width with good sized handles and the right moisture content, I think most would struggle to produce those on a consistent basis. Not sure why 2lbs 12oz keeps getting brought up either, we can and do all make good sized bats at all weights. However, I certainly feel most can easily use bats heavier than 2lbs 8oz. Batting for 30 minutes in the nets is very different to batting out in the middle.

I don't think it damaging at all it is the truth more willow more choice/ maybe my words are not used correctly,(I did not call them cast-offs) but if you getting in part made (which I know you don't) then the seller ain't going to give you their best-looking/lightest wood but what you can do as a smaller maker is make them competitive prices and more bespoke.

I like to point out I have not criticised your brand or the other smaller makers I'm simply stating the limitations with smaller makers which there are some but there are all kinds of markets. Big brands - bespoke like b3 who can make what you want but at a premium cost and the smaller makers who make just as good bats too. but there are limitations to all 3 - one will not let you get bespoke one will but at a cost and the other may not always have ready available light wood.

Looking over sales from the smaller makers there is not much under 2/10 is there but you make your point a 2/8 can feel 2/10 or 2/12 but I remember a while ago there was a crusade against this and a certain maker.

I buy lots of bats and keep ones that feel right I have had a 2/11 off you and it went bloody well great bat but it did give me tennis elbow (not your fault it was mine)- you make great bats and it was what I asked for and was massive.

For what it's worth I think you make great bats are honest and if you thought my tirade was against you it wasn't.

I was looking at Kookaburra this weekend they make big edges but have narrow blades and most models had quite a bit of concaving and the smallest handles I have seen on bats.

At no point have I said big bats are better or gauge fillers are best. Get the weight you want and the style you want within your budget is my motto.

PS I'm using a 2/8 with 37 mm edges and a small spine full convex back currently it no gauge filler either.

SD · « **Reply #23 on:** January 14, 2024, 11:52:38 PM »

Maybe light bats is a trend that will reverse at some point. Looking at bats from the 1980s and 1990s, plenty of players used bats around the 3lb mark. It seems odd that in a generation where players are significantly stronger and better conditioned, that bats are getting lighter to the point of cutting their width to reduce weight.

On a purely selfish level, as someone who doesn't used anything below 2.14, some of the few remaining good deals to be had are on heavy bats. But the current trend is isn't conducive to better bats, at least not for your normal club player

Neon Cricket · « **Reply #24 on:** January 15, 2024, 08:05:30 AM »

Weight aside, it's grading I've seen a noticeable shift in attitude towards - I can only assume it's due to the ever rising cost of willow/cost of living crisis etc, but I rarely get the classic 'I want 14+ grains/the bat must be Grade 1' emails anymore.

Selling bucketloads of G2/G3 willow in comparison to G1/G1+, much to the buyers delight when they realise the bats perform exactly the same (not that all of us haven't been saying it for years!).

Thorne_Cricket · « **Reply #25 on:** January 15, 2024, 09:23:40 AM »

I purchased a new bat for myself at the end of last season for �130 from someone I have dealt with before on Instagram (which a few players from my club and a friend have now bought from). It came plain with no stickers, toe guard or grips, it had been graded as a 3 and weighted around 2lb 12oz; it is a gauge filler with 40mm+ edges with a low middle. I applied my own stickers, toe guard, 2 grips with counter balances, protective sheet and taped edges along with my company's own sticker and it now weighs around 3lb, which is my preference as I am a punching batter who prefers to drive but can still play the short ball well but with the standard of cricket I play, I will not be getting anything that quick to trouble me. I did see something on Instagram recently that the duckbill toe is getting quite common to allow better weight distribution but if bats are gauge fillers that are weighing in the region of 2lb 8oz, the edges by the shoulders will be thinner, which in my own opinion would have to have a thinner handle.

jonny77 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 15, 2024, 10:13:55 AM »

Quote from: procricket on January 14, 2024, 10:29:00 PM

I don't think it damaging at all it is the truth more willow more choice/ maybe my words are not used correctly,(I did not call them cast-offs) but if you getting in part made (which I know you don't) then the seller ain't going to give you their best-looking/lightest wood but what you can do as a smaller maker is make them competitive prices and more bespoke.

I like to point out I have not criticised your brand or the other smaller makers I'm simply stating the limitations with smaller makers which there are some but there are all kinds of markets. Big brands - bespoke like b3 who can make what you want but at a premium cost and the smaller makers who make just as good bats too. but there are limitations to all 3 - one will not let you get bespoke one will but at a cost and the other may not always have ready available light wood.

Looking over sales from the smaller makers there is not much under 2/10 is there but you make your point a 2/8 can feel 2/10 or 2/12 but I remember a while ago there was a crusade against this and a certain maker.

I buy lots of bats and keep ones that feel right I have had a 2/11 off you and it went bloody well great bat but it did give me tennis elbow (not your fault it was mine)- you make great bats and it was what I asked for and was massive.

For what it's worth I think you make great bats are honest and if you thought my tirade was against you it wasn't.

I was looking at Kookaburra this weekend they make big edges but have narrow blades and most models had quite a bit of concaving and the smallest handles I have seen on bats.

At no point have I said big bats are better or gauge fillers are best. Get the weight you want and the style you want within your budget is my motto.

PS I'm using a 2/8 with 37 mm edges and a small spine full convex back currently it no gauge filler either.

Fair enough mate, I just thought it was a little harshly put and it's difficult enough for smaller makers (which I am) as it is, without people saying they only make bats from the Clefts 'other people don't want' (apologies if I misconstrued your words, but that sounded like basically cast offs to me). Truth or not, I'm just not sure it needed such a setting statement on a public forum without knowing the ins and outs of individual businesses.

Maybe I'm just overly defensive, but as I said it's hard as it is and getting harder with costs rising. For the guys who are making from part mades, their willow costs are also actually much higher. So although they don't have the overheads of premises etc generally, their costs are still high unfortunately. So even making them cheaper is difficult. I just think its good to support the guys trying to keep batmaking going in the UK and should be what this forum is partly about. I appreciate you have supported though mate and appreciate the comments about my bats, but just felt I needed to make it clear around the willow comments that's all.

As for the bats on sale being over a certain weight, for me it's generally as most lighter ones go quickly or are used for custom bats as people generally want 'specs'......thanks CBF! 😂

Hope the tennis elbow clears up and thanks for clarifying it wasn't
the bats fault. If I had the power to cause injury, I'd give them out for to every overseas we play against. I did say I could get more weight out of it tho as feel memory it had 40mm + edges! 😆

Thamesvalley · « **Reply #27 on:** January 15, 2024, 10:26:18 AM »

I do feel for small bat makers who are trying to do a good job
Bat prices are insane

I think Aldred doing well but I think his emperor butterfly is 399, no idea how people afford it.

jonny77 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 15, 2024, 10:42:31 AM »

In fairness, people are still earning good money in certain industries and can afford it, cost of living crisis or not. Granted, not everyone, but a lot can and so people will charge it. When we see SS etc charging over a grand for a bat, then it doesn't actually seem too bad tbf!

Thamesvalley · « **Reply #29 on:** January 15, 2024, 11:16:41 AM »

Iv wondered who buys these 1000 SS bats but there are global buyers

Author Topic: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution? (Read 5364 times)

thegowerwaft

Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?

Ayrtek Cricket

Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?

jonny77

Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?

procricket

Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?

jonny77

Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?

procricket

Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?

jonny77

Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?

procricket

Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?

SD

Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?

Neon Cricket

Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?

Thorne_Cricket

Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?

jonny77

Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?

Thamesvalley

Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?

jonny77

Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?

Thamesvalley

Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?