Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: peplow on April 09, 2011, 05:24:21 PM
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Right now considering these are both top quality sticks and the only difference in them is the looks as both have upmost of performance. Take into consideration what you have seen before on here and on websites, one costing near £400 and one £250, i have a few bits of willow, Bat 1,2,3,4 and 5 put an r for reserve or s for special reserve for what you would perceive to expect and accept for the prices etc etc...
1. (http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc223/speplow03/SAM_0847.jpg)
2. (http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc223/speplow03/SAM_0846.jpg)
3. (http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc223/speplow03/SAM_0843.jpg)
4. (http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc223/speplow03/SAM_0845.jpg)
5. (http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc223/speplow03/SAM_0844.jpg)
bat one 12 grains,
2 has 10 grains
3 has 9 grains
4 has 10 grains
5 has 9 grains.
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Politics aside I would not pay a premium for any of those based only on looks, which is all we can go on from here.
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s for all at best tbh, none of them look that nice to me.
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1.R
2.Heritage
3.S
4.S
5.Legend
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Let's not beat around the bush. They only get a certain amount of willow in a year and you are being offered what is left after the best bits have been cherrypicked.
It comes to something when I feel confident I could go to my local (crap) cricket shop and pick out at least 6 bats which wip the floor with those based on looks. And most for 1/4 the price...
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on looks, i'd say they should all be special reserves. i'd argue both my H4L 5*'s are better looking than all of these... Performance is obviously totally different though, you'd have to let me have a go with them ;)
i'd take one of the salix grade 4's with half heartwood anyday :D
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Ok.
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I would say......
1. R
2. S
3. R or S (depending if the could of marks are trick of the light on the scuff sheet or not?)
4. S
5. S
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is reserve higher than special reserve? :S
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yes, supposedly better grains
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Allegedly.
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oh wow okay, that makes no sense
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Nothing makes sense any more.
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well spending £400 on a bat certainly doesnt
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Pete they are willow marks not scuff sheet.
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Nor does your tone and none response on the the other thread Jon
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My reserve looks good if you like PEPS i will give it up for your one mate as you got not what you ordered and mine is similar in profile to what you wanted.
I will swap you mine for yours :(
I do like mine but i feel bad for people
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Well having just read the Laver website the Reserve is the biggest bat they make and the very best performing willow, no mention is made of the willow looks.
Laver & Wood's New Masterpiece
The Reserve bat is made from our best Players Grade willow. The willow is graded from the best of our willow courtesy of J.S.Wright & Sons based exclusively on performance and balance. This grade of willow falls between our Private Bin and Signature bat ranges. We can also give this bat a secondary drying process that gives it an even larger profile. This is an optional service that is normally only available for professional players and means that the bats sometimes lose a little bit of durability but have even more power and presence with an amazing pickup. A very limited warranty applies here, although selecting this service includes no extra charge.
We can knock this bat in for you and fit it with an adhesive protection tape for the face and edges. The weights range from 2lbs7ozs to 3lbs6ozs. These bats are most popular in the 2lbs 10ozs to 2lbs 12ozs region as they have a huge amount of willow in the blade and plenty of power. They have the lightest pickup imaginable for a bat with such a large amount of willow in the profile.
The Special Reserve sounds very similar but with the added note that the grains won't be straight.
Special Reserve
This bat is made from our highest performing willow clefts. It suits the cricketer who desires performance above all other attributes of a bat and wants to have a huge advantage over his opponents. The willow is judged on performance and is selected from about 80% of the finest willow that we import into New Zealand. For the Special Reserve clefts, we are not looking for straight grains but purely for the clefts that hit the ball the furthest. If power is what you are looking for then the Special Reserve is likely to be the bat for you.
Now the key for me is the figure of 80% of all the finest willow, statistics are used to baffle and this one does exactly that.... 80% of all willow? what is the split that goes into "finest"? is all willow finest or only 5%
From the way I read it the 2 grades are only separated by the cosmetics and the option of the second drying process.
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Nor does your tone and none response on the the other thread Jon
If you can decipher 'tone' from typed text, you are doing very well.
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................From the way I read it the 2 grades are only separated by the cosmetics and the option of the second drying process.
So from that, which is how I interpret it too, one should be able to expect good cosmetics as it seems to be the only advantage over the SR?
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Well from the wording the tone of the message was I am defending laver ( my favourite brand according to you ) when all I asked was are you a concaving man or not and I never said you had ordered a laver
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1. R
2. S
3. R
4. S
5. S
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Well having just read the Laver website the Reserve is the biggest bat they make and the very best performing willow, no mention is made of the willow looks.
Laver & Wood's New Masterpiece
The Reserve bat is made from our best Players Grade willow. The willow is graded from the best of our willow courtesy of J.S.Wright & Sons based exclusively on performance and balance. This grade of willow falls between our Private Bin and Signature bat ranges. We can also give this bat a secondary drying process that gives it an even larger profile. This is an optional service that is normally only available for professional players and means that the bats sometimes lose a little bit of durability but have even more power and presence with an amazing pickup. A very limited warranty applies here, although selecting this service includes no extra charge.
We can knock this bat in for you and fit it with an adhesive protection tape for the face and edges. The weights range from 2lbs7ozs to 3lbs6ozs. These bats are most popular in the 2lbs 10ozs to 2lbs 12ozs region as they have a huge amount of willow in the blade and plenty of power. They have the lightest pickup imaginable for a bat with such a large amount of willow in the profile.
The Special Reserve sounds very similar but with the added note that the grains won't be straight.
Special Reserve
This bat is made from our highest performing willow clefts. It suits the cricketer who desires performance above all other attributes of a bat and wants to have a huge advantage over his opponents. The willow is judged on performance and is selected from about 80% of the finest willow that we import into New Zealand. For the Special Reserve clefts, we are not looking for straight grains but purely for the clefts that hit the ball the furthest. If power is what you are looking for then the Special Reserve is likely to be the bat for you.
Now the key for me is the figure of 80% of all the finest willow, statistics are used to baffle and this one does exactly that.... 80% of all willow? what is the split that goes into "finest"? is all willow finest or only 5%
From the way I read it the 2 grades are only separated by the cosmetics and the option of the second drying process.
No but all emails laver send you when they mention reserve they say its the best performing and good looking willow they have..and they always mention together...think there is an example on here.. i could possibly dig one out too!
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My reserve looks good if you like PEPS i will give it up for your one mate as you got not what you ordered and mine is similar in profile to what you wanted.
I will swap you mine for yours :(
I do like mine but i feel bad for people
Dave dont be silly yours is staying with you mate!
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No but all emails laver send you when they mention reserve they say its the best performing and good looking willow they have..and they always mention together...think there is an example on here.. i could possibly dig one out too!
I agree! REserve is best performing and good looking....not best looking though because thats Signature!
Dave - You're a top top guy! Bloody good guy Dave is :D
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and if its not good looking then surely that goes to a special reserve, if the special reserve didnt exist for much much less it would probably have a larger margin of acceptability. Anyway its not only the looks that are going wrong!
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Lets be honest here. . . there are members on this forum. . .who could describe themselves as bat geeks. . .we are spoilt . . .constantly being shown very nice looking bats. Take Redbacks, Talismans or Saf's, they all look the part too. . . .when was the last time u saw an ugly'ish one of these. when ordering the reserve, i turned down quite a few clefts, based on looks. you start to get a feel for grade 1 or top grade bat, when you;ve seen so many on a daily basis. i am of the opinion that reserve must be perfomance based rather than looks. the clefts that i was shown didnt meet my standards im afraid.
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Lets be honest here. . . there are members on this forum. . .who could describe themselves as bat geeks. . .we are spoilt . . .constantly being shown very nice looking bats. Take Redbacks, Talismans or Saf's, they all look the part too. . . .when was the last time u saw an ugly'ish one of these. when ordering the reserve, i turned down quite a few clefts, based on looks. you start to get a feel for grade 1 or top grade bat, when you;ve seen so many on a daily basis. i am of the opinion that reserve must be perfomance based rather than looks. the clefts that i was shown didnt meet my standards im afraid.
The main difference is the price bro, for Reserve you paid 360 + customs while you can get within 230 Pounds mark and they'd be as good looking and performing too!
As Mike has raised question of low density it does really matter.
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What else has gone wrong sam!!!!!
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Agreed on price part, and they have shown for 230 pounds its possibly to churn out good looking high performing bats!
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100not out, if the clefts didn't meet your standards visually, why did you order?
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I have been on this forum for sometime and I have spoken to many batmakers now and everyone says it is very hard to come across a low density cleft so seeing the amount of orders Laver & Wood recently got with the offer they came up was near 10 so if James or Andy don't hand select there clefts and buy 1000 clefts per year then how can they get soo many low density while others hardly come across any?
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Good question. . . .in the end . . . .i left it in their capable hands.
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I selected my cleft on weight then looks as wanted a light one to get a nice big bay for the weight
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I have been on this forum for sometime and I have spoken to many batmakers now and everyone says it is very hard to come across a low density cleft so seeing the amount of orders Laver & Wood recently got with the offer they came up was near 10 so if James or Andy don't hand select there clefts and buy 1000 clefts per year then how can they get soo many low density while others hardly come across any?
Whether you realise it or not, you've just hit the nail on the head.
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I think the question is "are you going to use the bat or just look at it".....if your only going to look at it then you waznt the best looking bat but if you intend to use it then who cares what it looks like...its the performance that matters.
I have had some top of the range "off the shelf" bats with terrible looking grains but outperform anything I have used...In a bat I want performance first!!!!!
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I think the question is "are you going to use the bat or just look at it".....if your only going to look at it then you waznt the best looking bat but if you intend to use it then who cares what it looks like...its the performance that matters.
I have had some top of the range "off the shelf" bats with terrible looking grains but outperform anything I have used...In a bat I want performance first!!!!!
True but they market the special reserve as the not so good looking yet performs as well as anything so you'd hope that at £150 more, the reserve would give you the best of both worlds, performance and aesthetics.
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From what I have seen so far the Reserves are a better looking willow than the Specials
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You're not really seeing my point. For a £150 premium which by their own admission will not necessarily give you a performance advantage over the SR unless you then pay a further premium for the secondary drying, you would hope that for that £150 premium you would be getting a very nice looking bat indeed.
If we are to believe everything that is said, the SR is the bat that represents the best value in the Laver lineup, however I'm now not entirely sure that this £250 G2/3 bat represents good value for money in the grand scheme of things, when £250 will buy you many brands top model.
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But Jon they tell you this
I can get a chalet pressed grade 1 for 150 so why did i go for a laver because i can and i think there better my opinion only i may add.
Why buy a Ferrari when you can buy a car that can go as fast for half the price....
Why do we all not flock to get the cheapest bats going
why do people knock Asian made bats and pay less for them
Why do some people pay over 300 notes for a 2nd hand bat then sell it at a major loss
Because people can bud i not turning anti you but sometime you answer your own questions.
Everything is horses for courses mate and subjective as the words written.
James Laver i would have thought is rated among the top 5 batmakers in the world for a good reason because he makes good bats.
I think they have made a few error with orders and will put them right.
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I do see your point but can't comment on performance as I haven't used either yet so I can only comment on looks..I would go for performance over looks any day of the week though.
Just out of interest what brands were you referring to when you say £250 will get their top model???
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I do see your point but can't comment on performance as I haven't used either yet so I can only comment on looks..I would go for performance over looks any day of the week though.
Just out of interest what brands were you referring to when you say £250 will get their top model???
Blue Room, H4L, Lekka, Ayrtek just off the top of my head.
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Just on a side note I am not sure what you guys in the UK pay for a top of the line "off the shelf" bat over there but here in OZ we pay the equivalent of £490 so I think for £250 for a custom made bat made to however you want it no matter which custom brand it is I believe is a pretty good deal
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Jon may i ask why you buy Salix bats there not the cheapest.....
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I can get a chalet pressed grade 1 for 150 so why did i go for a laver because i can and i think there better my opinion only i may add.
They have a press there do they?
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you know what i mean Leo but thanks for being your usual diligent self
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Can I make just one quick comment here. I pm'd a number of the custom batmakers, which is what I was advised to do, that are on this forum earlier today to ask the simple question of who is the podshaver who makes there bats and believe it or not so far of the ones who replied only one of them told me who made there bats.
From what I have seen so far most of these bats look great and have had excellent reviews but if they are being made by the "best batmakers around" why would you not want people to know who is making these bats??
Or am I just expecting too much???
Sorry Guys off the track now...I will be quiet now
P.S I will say that the ones who did reply were polite in there replies and I appreciate there quick responses
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of this forum there only 3 possibly 4 proper makers and a big willow supplier who gets good willow by the sound and looks of it and a guy who makes the best helmets in the land, and a bloke who sells the best bats coming out of asia.
this forum is a tiny smigin of the cricket world mate but there enough on here
And the answer to your question who know why it all Chinese whispers
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But Jon they tell you this
I can get a chalet pressed grade 1 for 150 so why did i go for a laver because i can and i think there better my opinion only i may add.
Why buy a Ferrari when you can buy a car that can go as fast for half the price....
Why do we all not flock to get the cheapest bats going
why do people knock Asian made bats and pay less for them
Why do some people pay over 300 notes for a 2nd hand bat then sell it at a major loss
Because people can bud i not turning anti you but sometime you answer your own questions.
Everything is horses for courses mate and subjective as the words written.
James Laver i would have thought is rated among the top 5 batmakers in the world for a good reason because he makes good bats.
I think they have made a few error with orders and will put them right.
This is why I don't have much time for you Dave, you deliberately misinterpret what I say, which wasn't even aimed at you, and somehow turn it into an attempt at a war of words; your thinly veiled digs are pointless and not necessary. Not one thing in your little rant has anything to do with the point I actually made which is if there is a £150 premium for looks, most of us would want a pretty special looking bat. Yes Laver make it clear, but it doesn't alter the fact that they have not provided exceptional looking bats in all cases. You've done well in that your Reserve is probably the best looking of the current batch and certainly is a nice one, but I'm not blown away by the rest, considering what they were sold as. Simple fact is there are only going to be a certain number of pretty ones in 1000 clefts and it is undeniable they have taken advantage of those who allowed Laver to choose the clefts for them. If you don't believe that, look at the evidence. Those of you on here who are notoriously picky about looks and will have spent time consulting and choosing for themselves have ended up with the better looking Reserves, those who didn't choose themselves have ended up with less good looking ones. Hell, one person didn't even get the one he had chosen and was not told about it until he took issue with them. That is far from impressive.
It is a shame that there seem to be a number of issues with this current batch and I sincerely hope it can be resolved to the liking of those who have shelled out. Laver has a very good reputation and that must have been built on something solid in the past but I have seen enough recently to be extremely reluctant to deal with them.
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I realise that...I was only talking about the ones on this forum though
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I let them select mine so fingers crossed...Now I am nervous...lol
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I spoke to andy and he said he is hoping to sort it all out tonight/Monday morning so we shall see as there have been issues so we will see what they do to resolve them
I went with the first cleft they sent me a picture of as met my needs by being very light and 8-10 straight grains
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Well if you contact the brands who make their own bats rather than brands who have bats made for them, the answer is self explanatory.
Some brands are not permitted to speak in public about where there bats are made due to business reasons. However it is something that you will learn after spending time here than nothing is really secret and you learn to read clues about it. If you are dead set on knowing where the bats are made, stick to those brands on here that make it clear they make their own.
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I spoke to andy and he said he is hoping to sort it all out tonight/Monday morning so we shall see as there have been issues so we will see what they do to resolve them
I went with the first cleft they sent me a picture of as met my needs by being very light and 8-10 straight grains
Glad to hear it is been attended to.
If you have received yours, are you completely happy with it/them?
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I asked a simple question earlier today about who made what bats and I was told to go ask...so thats what I did..
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I will tell you
4 makers H4L,Laver,SAF,BlueRoom.
the rest most of them made in Sussex hope this helps with Instinct i do not know where they are made
Asads are made around the world and as good as any.
net time time to smoke some
Oh Number 4 if your interested mate check out cricket stuff it a good insight to willow by Norbair
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Not revived mine yet Jon but here is my reserve cleft
(http://emob957.photobucket.com/albums/ae59/ajer2000/c963601c.jpg?t=1302126557)
I am happy with it just got a few things to sort with andy as not picked the legend cleft yet but very happy with the service I have recieved so far
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Thanks guys for the info
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Good, hope you are happy with the final product.
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We shall see as you never know till it gets here and it has alot to live up to with my other bats
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I just don't envy you at the moment as it can't be nice reading the general dissatisfaction with which some of the current batch have been received. Fingers crossed anyway.
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Well I have some concerns but I have raised these with andy and he said he will do his best to resolve them tonight so we shall see
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you know the saying Arron :D
No Laver No runs :)
Jon you post a lot on the Laver stuff to say you do not care... ;)
Andy has said he will speak with who he needs to tonight so there no real point in all this as arron says...
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I think with a forum like this it will keep all custom bats to the highest quality that we all expect
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you know the saying Arron :D
No Laver No runs :)
Jon you post a lot on the Laver stuff to say you do not care... ;)
Andy has said he will speak with who he needs to tonight so there no real point in all this as arron says...
Where do I say I don't care please?
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ladies,
anyway i am hoping they'll come good.
I explained how
1. I paid £50 more than most others, some who have received heritages (upgraded or not its still a heritage!) and received my bat after or at same time as these people. thats like -£40/£50
2. It wasnt similar in profile to what i wanted, even though i dont mind the profile its not really a custom made!
3. Its more like a special reserve compared to reserves i have seen on here! as i didnt pick my cleft... which are about £70-£100 cheaper!!
we'll see what they say!
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i'll post my resolution on here when they contact me, which apparently will be today :)
it would be a shame to ruin what was a good experience whilst buying..
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It is best to wait till andy has his say and chance to sort things out as all brands mess up at some point which im sure we have all had an order gone wrong at some point so I guess it's down to how they sort it as after sales service are just as important as pre sales service maybe even more so but andy will be on tonight so let's see
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From my discussions with Andy, he comes across as a decent chap. I have no doubt that there will be an amicable outcome for all concerned.
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Well having chatted to andy I feel 100% better as all concerns addressed and pictures will be with me by the morning and bats away by wed so will see what the pics are like and what they are like when they arrive but as it goes now very happy
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Good to hear. :)
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Andy has given me a few options too which i shall mull over!
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looks like things are being sorted.
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one of the options is to send my bat back, and have another one sent over with a free pair of gloves. This is probably the only viable option he gave but it would incur £30+ postage back and probably £30 customs on the return journey, leaving me £60 out and some gloves that i owuldnt want and wouldnt get £60 for!! So am unsure what to do.
The other option leaves me with probably only the £30 customs but relies on something else happening!
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I have told you i will swap mine bud and i will sort the rest out mate
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Thats a pretty poor show on their part, surely they should pay the postage if theyve sent you something you're not happy with, especially when you're incurring customs fee's
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You don't have to pay for the postage, I mean its there fault so they have to cover all the expense you don't have to pay a single penny!
They should pay for 60 Pounds and give you free pair of gloves
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maybe so but it doesnt appear to be that way.
My other option is to sell the laver and have another sent over, with the dosh going their way. Only problem is who owuld i sell it too, i mean for a special reserve/reserve it would be going at a mad price without customs but i think this episode may have put people off, plus no-one like the profile, and its rare to make that much on ebay. I have some thinking to do!
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well good luck with it whatever you choose to do!
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thanks, i'll be very picky when it comes to new bat so that will hopefully work out ok, its just a case of doing it now without losing out!
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I have told you i will swap mine bud and i will sort the rest out mate
no mate thats unfair, you like yours, and i hopefully will get one i like.... well i think i will if i am picky this time.
Plus you have one to sort out! so neither of us are better off!
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I sorted now questions answered and i have come to a agreement and happy with that.
Bloody good job my Reserve has the potential to be as good and maybe Better than my Pb
I keeping both my bats and was offered some good stuff but it was a honest mistake and we all make them
Laver are still my brand :D
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Glad it's sorted out to your satisfaction. Lavers customer care is pretty decent . Everyone makes mistakes but it's how they handle them is what matters.
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Yes indeed mate i was not tempted by offers of other things i can sort bats out myself i just wanted some anwsers and they did that to the full.
I agree people make mistakes just got to save for the signature now...
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They must have changed their tune because half an hour ago when you'd spoken to them you were on the verge of telling them to stick it.
Glad it's sorted. :)
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yes because i do not hold people to ransom mate i was offered things mate but i turned them down i wanted answers bud not free kit and they sorted that out,
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Sorted, replacement FOC, cant argue with that, now its just time to see the willow!
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maybe so but it doesnt appear to be that way.
My other option is to sell the laver and have another sent over, with the dosh going their way. Only problem is who owuld i sell it too, i mean for a special reserve/reserve it would be going at a mad price without customs but i think this episode may have put people off, plus no-one like the profile, and its rare to make that much on ebay. I have some thinking to do!
Andy has offered exactly the same to me which I am not happy about. Why didn't they just get it right the first time. I asked for secondary drying to increase mass and to be sent a bat with 32mm edges and concaving is a joke, I buy a lot of bats and support this forum and expect to be treated as a good customer, not an idiot!!!
What do I do sell it on to someone on here at reduced price, no one will take it as it is a small bat that will not last. Not happy!!! The trade off originally was to have a big bat with huge mass knowing it would not last long. Now I have a bat that is small that will not last long, go figure!!! Money really well spent, not!!!!
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Sorted, replacement FOC, cant argue with that, now its just time to see the willow!
Much better, if you read my post earlier I said you'll be get a new one for FOC.
So you send this back at there expense ?
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yeah they pay postage back and any customs i'll get on return.
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Sorted, replacement FOC, cant argue with that, now its just time to see the willow!
i wonder if your one will go on the special offers section......
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Cheers Sam I hope they do everything correct this time around.
Not sounding greedy but your time should be compensated as well...
Canners of course mate!
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it hasnt really taken much of my time so that i am not overly bothered about.
Had a pic of 3 clefts through, will possibly decide from them after i have had a better look when i'm fully awake, if not i will keep looking...
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Heheh good luck mate I had to make Andy go through many clefts and the last one was the one I choose :D
Once again good luck hope you get beauty this time!
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I have left it to James to pick out a cleft for me this time round, dont care if its a 3 grainer but it should play like it ought to . .
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how many of u have rejected ur bats uv recieved ???
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how many of u have rejected ur bats uv recieved ???
a fair few, but if it gets sorted and we're happy at end then i see little problem! :) except time scales!
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Yeah im sure they will sort it out....should have realised what a peculiar bunch we are on here as kit nerds!
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sounds like quite a few.......
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Yeah im sure they will sort it out....should have realised what a peculiar bunch we are on here as kit nerds!
yeah haha, but some of it is fairly standard like wrong clefts sent and wrong profiles!
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Tomtek. . . . . nail on the head. i would go as far as saying the forum bunch arent your bog standard punters. Tell me when you sell your bats are the punters very very pedantic?
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Andy has offered exactly the same to me which I am not happy about. Why didn't they just get it right the first time. I asked for secondary drying to increase mass and to be sent a bat with 32mm edges and concaving is a joke, I buy a lot of bats and support this forum and expect to be treated as a good customer, not an idiot!!!
What do I do sell it on to someone on here at reduced price, no one will take it as it is a small bat that will not last. Not happy!!! The trade off originally was to have a big bat with huge mass knowing it would not last long. Now I have a bat that is small that will not last long, go figure!!! Money really well spent, not!!!!
John, do you think you may have had unrealistic expectations? Even if you assume a5% reduction in moisture will provide an equivalent size increase, a standard bat would have 35 mm edges and a 5% increase on that will only be less than 37 mm. Equally the increase in volume of wood won't be enormous either.
It seems that we have a tendency to expect magic from the bat makers?
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Another point worth mentionning is that Laver have made up for the mishaps to a satisfactory outcome for all.
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few people are others who know me trust my judgement as Colsey etc will tell you....end of the day the bat being sold is testament to me and my brand so wouldn't want the customer being in any doubt about the product provided.
Obviously a bit different with a custom bat, but having done a fair few custom helmets yet to have one sent back as a reject...touch wood lol
We have to give some leeway in terms of interpretation though i feel as well!
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Hmmmm, as good as they are purported to be, is it really worth going through all this grief and extra cost to buy a bat from the other side of the world - particularly when it goes wrong?
..and before you all shoot me down, I am a past Laver customer, and the bat was very good - but not so significantly better than most of the Newbery's I have had to warrant the extra cost and heartache.
There's lots of very good blades here in the UK, and many of them are beautifully finished too.
I know I will get shouted down, but that's my twopenn'orth!
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John, do you think you may have had unrealistic expectations? Even if you assume a5% reduction in moisture will provide an equivalent size increase, a standard bat would have 35 mm edges and a 5% increase on that will only be less than 37 mm. Equally the increase in volume of wood won't be enormous either.
It seems that we have a tendency to expect magic from the bat makers?
No i don't think so as I have had enough experience buying bats to know when a bat is under spec. As the Amplus, Reserve and a 400 pound Talisman I bought all met my expectations and normally I do not complain. But this is a valid complaint in my opinion.
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no fattus i cant help but agree, in all fairness we didnt know it would go wrong, and i've always had a thing for them so thought why not! maybe the uk is the best place to buy from though..
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Never had an issue buying bats from the UK, many issues however, buying directly out of India!!!
As Mike supplies all my bats and will continue to do so into the future.
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Hmmmm, as good as they are purported to be, is it really worth going through all this grief and extra cost to buy a bat from the other side of the world - particularly when it goes wrong?
..and before you all shoot me down, I am a past Laver customer, and the bat was very good - but not so significantly better than most of the Newbery's I have had to warrant the extra cost and heartache.
There's lots of very good blades here in the UK, and many of them are beautifully finished too.
I know I will get shouted down, but that's my twopenn'orth!
Most sensible post in this thread.
People will deny it until they are blue in the face but part of the attraction with this brand is that they are priced higher than most others and therefore they must somehow produce a better final product. If Laver's prices had always been in line with, or perhaps even lower than similar UK based brands I guarantee you they would not have the attraction that they do now.
Our brains work in an odd illogical way when deal with things like this. If someone we trust implicitely offers us a bat for £200 and someone else offers one for £400, the temptation will be to go for the more expensive one even if we know it cannot be any better.
The difficulty Laver faces is that we know you can get a top bat for less than they charge for theirs, so they must find another selling point. On the face of it they seem to have chosen exclusivity and a little bit of mysticism as their USPs.
Knowing that many of the batmakers on this forum offer very good customer service, I'd have expected the 'Laver experience' to be nothing short of flawless. Frankly it seems to have been a bit of a car crash. Going on what has been said here, more customers are unhappy with their bats than are happy, bats have been made to the wrong shapes, weights, sizes. Different wood has been used to that which was agreed upon, orders have taken longer than agreed, the prices paid seem to vary on a day to day basis. Even the most ardent Laver fan must admit it isn't a shining light of the boutique experience.
I am glad to hear that most (if not all) people have now reached a resolution they are happy with. However it is pretty poor that this situation was allowed to develop in the first place. Were it just about any other brand they would have been ripped apart by now on here, banished, shamed. But because it is Laver people seem to be happy to say 'oh well' 'not to worry' and 'we all make mistakes'.
Oh well, I hope it has given a pretty good idea if their options now. Certainly has done for me.
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Yep buy from the UK always works out well for me.
This is why I am upset regarding the Special Reserve. It is marketed as a ugly reserve with similar size and performance. I then ask for a SR with secondary drying and send my 270 pounds off to Andy and get a photo on a nice angle so the bat looks big as per spec. I receive back a bat with 32mm edges and concaving for my 270 with pretty ordinary willow, if I knew nothing about bats I would of copped it sweet. 270 buys me a sensational bat from Newbery, Talisman, Warsop, SAF and H4L just to name a few.
The last thing a bat maker wants to do is upset one of us on here and treat us like an idiot as it spreads right through the whole forum. I do not buy bats to go through the trouble of sending them back because the supplier has sent out product that does not meet its original description or is vastly under spec.
That is not how this forum works, we buy collectively and expect suppliers to perform to realistic customer expectations. And when suppliers do not perform we should not put up with it.
I feel profit has obscured Laver's judgement and customer satisfaction is secondary.
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Yep buy from the UK always works out well for me.
This is why I am upset regarding the Special Reserve. It is marketed as a ugly reserve with similar size and performance. I then ask for a SR with secondary drying and send my 270 pounds off to Andy and get a photo on a nice angle so the bat looks big as per spec. I receive back a bat with 32mm edges and concaving for my 270 with pretty ordinary willow, if I knew nothing about bats I would of copped it sweet. 270 buys me a sensational bat from Newbery, Talisman, Warsop, SAF and H4L just to name a few.
The last thing a bat maker wants to do is upset one of us on here and treat us like an idiot as it spreads right through the whole forum. I do not buy bats to go through the trouble of sending them back because the supplier has sent out product that does not meet its original description or is vastly under spec.
That is not how this forum works, we buy collectively and expect suppliers to perform to realistic customer expectations. And when suppliers do not perform we should not put up with it.
I feel profit has obscured Laver's judgement and customer satisfaction is secondary.
1. you are paying more for the brand
2. have you used the bat in a match yet? until then you can't judge the performance.
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1. you are paying more for the brand
2. have you used the bat in a match yet? until then you can't judge the performance.
Had a hit with it today and plays no where near the price tag.
Will put it in the cupboard and will put it behind me
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I tell u what. . . . I work hard to earn my money and want it well spent. I expect a certain standard, don't care who u are, if it doesn't meet my standards I let them know, no two ways about it. Reputation counts for nothing if u dont deliver. If my replacement does not meet my standards they will all go back. Simple. Sometimes in this world you have to shout to be heard. Had enough of being mr nice. Rant over.
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John
I am told that this is the pressing. It will come to life apparently, rather like the ugly duckling that turned into a swan.
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Had a hit with it today and plays no where near the price tag.
Will put it in the cupboard and will put it behind me
John
I am told that this is the pressing. It will come to life apparently, rather like the ugly duckling that turned into a swan.
fair enough - but I agree with 100 - use it in the nets - I am sure it will come good - although mentally if you think a bat is pants it is difficult to score big with it - on the other hand it may help you concentrate and really try to middle the ball.
Failling that if it has an big oval handle I'll take it from you for £110 (posted) - at least it will get used then, rather than sitting in your cupboard!!
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I'l have it for £110.50 posted
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I'l have it for £110.50 posted
I'll up my offer to £110.58 then, pah to you Canners.
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Mikey you sneaky get.
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You go for it buzz
My bats will be shipped on Wednesday or Thursday hopefully so will see when they get here as after my chat to andy I am looking forward to seeing how they perform next to my other top bats
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I think what we need to do, collectively, is come around to realising that smaller newer batmaking bands are somehow guaranteed to be not-quite-as-good as the well thought of premium brands that are well established. In simple terms, we equate the size of the price tag with the size of the performance.
Why, for instance will we pay £300+ for a Laver, or SCAT when really we know that a Talisman, H4L etc etc will be as good for quite a bit less? We all do it to an extent, a straw poll a few months ago found Laver and SCAT to be the two most desired brands among members on this forum who had no experience of those brands. Why? £££ Thats why. I am of the opinion now (and increasingly so) that there is no magic involved, no unspeakable technique in manufacture which somehow seperates and lifts these coincidentally more expensive brands to make better bats. You can argue the lineage of the training that those batmakers in question have received, yes it is romantic to trace John Newbery's knowledge being handed down and it is an attractive thought. However interpret it in another light and you can argue that Dan, the new batmaker at Salix will, once training is complete, have the same knowledge as Newbery, Keeley, Millichamp, Kember and Laver. It gives a different slant to it, no doubt. What though is there to say that a maker who is self taught cannot produce bats of equal performance?
If you are loyal to a brand it should be because you have had good results from them. Product and service. Simple. Nothing more. It is frankly embarrassing to see paying customers excusing these recent problems under the banner of 'Everyone makes mistakes'. Well, yes they do but in business if they continue to make repeated mistakes they don't stay around for long.
In my terms a premium brand is one that is extraordinary in both product and service and therefore charges accordingly. By those terms we are not looking at a premium brand. It is a brand that charges for a premium service but sadly falls far short of providing it.
I do hope a happy solution is found, some seem to have been satisfied already but others do not. People should not stop stamping their fists until they are satisfied because this situation should not have been allowed to degrade this far.
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I do feel sorry for those that think more expensive is better as I am not one I wish to try a laver as his pressing is unique and I want to see what laver bats are all about having had talismans etc
You are entitled to your opinion Jon but laver are a premium global brand with a very good reputation over many years as if they did not have this there is no way they could charge what they do and still be in business yes a few mistakes have happened when they should not have but they have held there hands up and sorted everyone out as far as I know but I have have orders of brands off this very forum messed up but they were sorted out promptly and very well so all good to me
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When has the cost of a cricket bat ever have a indication of it quality in terms of playing NEVER
Jon it funny you get the wrong end of the stick why most buy Laver.
Take the world cup of bats that was on here most people voted without ever using or seeing in some circumstances.
A bat is like the prices varied.
I not going to get drawn into it but your VOICE OF REASON or crusade against Laver is tiresome.
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I do feel sorry for those that think more expensive is better as I am not one I wish to try a laver as his pressing is unique and I want to see what laver bats are all about having had talismans etc
You are entitled to your opinion Jon but laver are a premium global brand with a very good reputation over many years as if they did not have this there is no way they could charge what they do and still be in business yes a few mistakes have happened when they should not have but they have held there hands up and sorted everyone out as far as I know but I have have orders of brands off this very forum messed up but they were sorted out promptly and very well so all good to me
Well firstly they haven't sorted everyone out to their satisfaction.
Secondly as a potential customer I am interested in the experience as it is now, not what it was a decade ago. That they may well have been the best batmakers in the world in the past would offer little consolation to me if I was unhappy with the service today. Many businesses, cricket or not, have built great reputations only to let them slip. I really do hope this is a blip which was caused by a sudden increase in work load where there suddenly became so much to get done that standards slipped slightly.
I will paraphrase a friend of mine who is the CEO of an extremely successful mulitnational industrial. He once said that a good company will sort out any mistakes without issue, however a great company never puts itself in a situation where mistakes are made.
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That's why I said as far as I know people have been satisfied I don't know everyone on here bud
Yes some companys let it slip but very very few companys will never make a mistake or two throughout there entire trading life but maybe some of the brands on here can elaborate
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I tell you we might all as well go round having a go at brands we have not tried as you know i had some problems with one of my bats but i see first it was Instinct now Laver Jon what is your problem bud.
I think it highly unfair on Laver who pay for the privilege of being a sponsor to be attacked by a guy who has never used or owned one.
Infact i would say it is a slur against a sponsor
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Got to love it when Punch and Judy get going! :D
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I suspect that they are both Judy though... ;)
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In defence of laver, When all these issues kicked off ( friday )Laver had no chance to respond or sort out any problems as 1 they are about 13hrs time difference in front of us and 2 they are closed at weekends. I'm sure this saga would not of dragged on if it started on a Monday.
I don't wanna join the petty arguments but John u once posted the signature clefts pictures they sent u were not as good as the one Ian w is selling and u would only buy 1 of that standard. His comes up for sale & u immediately rule yourself out!
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In defence of laver, When all these issues kicked off ( friday )Laver had no chance to respond or sort out any problems as 1 they are about 13hrs time difference in front of us and 2 they are closed at weekends. I'm sure this saga would not of dragged on if it started on a Monday.
I don't wanna join the petty arguments but John u once posted the signature clefts pictures they sent u were not as good as the one Ian w is selling and u would only buy 1 of that standard. His comes up for sale & u immediately rule yourself out!
Because I thought a price of over £500 was a little steep for a second hand bat, no matter how pretty. I really don't know what that has to do with this thread though.
Anyone else want to know anything about my financial portfolio?
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Yes Jon - please count every grain on every bat you own and then multiply that number by £50.
That will tell me how minted you are
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Pete is a Saudi prince then by that method
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Yes Jon - please count every grain on every bat you own and then multiply that number by £50.
That will tell me how minted you are
Does that mean my new bat is worth £2100 then? :D
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Correct.
Although any knots or imperfections you find, subtract £100 each from the total.
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Does that mean my new bat is worth £2100 then? :D
new bat? havent you sold them all?
oh and love to see this bat with 42 grains on it.......
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I think i'm a road sweeper with my 3 bats
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new bat? havent you sold them all?
oh and love to see this bat with 42 grains on it.......
It's triple dried too. :D
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you can only use 1 bat in the middle dave so doesnt matter how many u own!
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only Triple dried, you need to get with the times ;)
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An interesting interjection would be that Procricket was very vocal as were others in saying that Instinct had over priced their bats when they launched as a forum sponsor. I would have thought that having never seen one or knowing anyone that had used one no one would be entitled to comment about the brand but plenty did.
Surely the point of a public forum is to allow opinions to be aired, some will be shot down, others be proved right, the majority will not matter...
I see no problem in fair comment on the problems with the bats sold as part of the offer as long they are fair and balanced.
What seems to be happening is that personal issues are taking over, that will end in tears.
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Mike
I have re read the topic and all i asked was for 300 pound i would like to know who made them no more no less i never called into question there quality as i have never questioned anybody quality i have not tried
I have tried them and rest assured they are very good as i have said in the topic.
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I know, this is not aimed at you directly, you got the offer as you were doubting the quality of the bats or am I wrong?
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I doubt many things when people only use a bat once and say it the best ever mate but i can see why they have done the bats are very good no doubt.
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And I ask again if anyone can point out to me where I am slurring a sponsor, I'm all ears. What I've done is express fact, which it would seem is not the done thing on this forum.
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I think you have taken a lot of this personally but at the end of the day these are the most expensive bats that have been sold of here and thus the fellow members, me included have wanted to see what the deal was as I read it as the biggest and best performing bats made to your exact spec.
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Yes Mike your right in what you say i know you too have owned a few lavers i have bought one from you.
I just do not like people who know nothing about the bats constantly slate them without knowing nothing.
We have had our difference in the past due to a different factor but for somebody who has never had one slates them i find it unfair.
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Well I think that it is fair to add comment to the results of the forum offer, as long as that is based on what was offered and what was delivered.
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I just do not like people who know nothing about the bats constantly slate them without knowing nothing.
You say this, but I'm sure you'ver yet to meet Jon Pinson in the flesh yet im sure you would be more than happy to give your opinion on the fellow!
As Mike has said many times - this is a public forum and people will have opinions and wish to air them. You sound incredibly elitist when you suggest that those who dont know "nothing about the bats constantly slate them without knowing nothing" - just because you own a Laver, does it make you the best positioned person to give an impartial and unbiased account of their performance?
I have never owned a Laver - does this mean that my comments are worthless - because this is what you are insinuating. I think i am more than able to form a reasonable and fair overview of both the bats and the quality from people i have spoken too, bats i have seen and comments posted on this forum.
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You say this, but I'm sure you'ver yet to meet Jon Pinson in the flesh yet im sure you would be more than happy to give your opinion on the fellow!
As Mike has said many times - this is a public forum and people will have opinions and wish to air them. You sound incredibly elitist when you suggest that those who dont know "nothing about the bats constantly slate them without knowing nothing" - just because you own a Laver, does it make you the best positioned person to give an impartial and unbiased account of their performance?
I have never owned a Laver - does this mean that my comments are worthless - because this is what you are insinuating. I think i am more than able to form a reasonable and fair overview of both the bats and the quality from people i have spoken too, bats i have seen and comments posted on this forum.
Sleep with one eye open tonight.
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Sleep with one eye open tonight.
Gripping his pillow tight?
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Who's Susan?
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Gent's I can bitch with the best but this is getting boring even for me, no more on any other thread other than your own...
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You bitch mike never
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wow, to think that someone would be so pathetic over a discussion about a cricket bat
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Gripping his pillow tight?
tunee