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General Cricket => World Cricket => England => Topic started by: Kieron_BT on February 28, 2014, 12:32:20 PM
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/26382742 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/26382742)
Looks like MP is trying to earn some Cookie brownie points!
KP reply on twitter is brilliant however!
Fewer Q&A's, more Sussex nets methinks, Matt Prior! #josbuttler."
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same old england, the same people just looking after each other. swann, anderson, broad, prior all kissing up to the managment.
KP was passionate about winning, whether it was for him or england i dont care about his motivation when he was winning us games
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The KP article on cricinfo and quotes from MP is odious on multiple levels - it smacks of someone standing up for a mate and trying to get their job back.
This is far more insightful from https://twitter.com/TheMiddleStump (https://twitter.com/TheMiddleStump)
http://www.themiddlestump.co.uk/2014/02/john-etheridge-is-main-man-in-currant.html (http://www.themiddlestump.co.uk/2014/02/john-etheridge-is-main-man-in-currant.html)
this is also a bit odd and contains a world of caveats - but the underlying view is the falling out with the captain which is clear.
but being a good bloke doesn't make you a good captain and I think there will be two sides to each story - we haven't heard much from either side.
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But the fact is Cook is a poor captain. you cant hide that fact.
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This is yet more evidence to show the ECB are poor and Cook is just not good enough to be a capt. As Buzz said, you can be a top bloke etc but being a capt is a completely different skill. Matt Prior you have just shown you have sold out as well, shame. Not that WI will give England it but Eng need to be beaten and beaten badly again to really show this lot up. They appear to be getting away with it.
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Ive read most of the kp posts on here and its clear the majority still want him in
The question seems to be theres no doubt kp put his own interests first,he used england to earn to big bucks
Some of the others put their country first
It comes down to whether you can have that in a team environment
Etheridges article about kp leaving when the sydney test had not finished sums it up
Cook is not a good captain and i dont the the management is right either
How do you manage a player that wont buy into the team ethic??
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The situation has been handled poorly but in my opinion was the right decision. There will no doubt be a confidentiality clause in the termination agreement seen as neither side has made direct comments as yet (KP using Morgan and others to make his for him). It will be interesting to see what comes out once that agreement expires...
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How do you manage a player that wont buy into the team ethic??
You get the feeling that Cook hasn't got any of the requisite man management skills that a good Captain needs to even attempt to manage someone like KP. You can have a lovely harmonious dressing room full of polite well spoken players, but if you can't score runs you aren't going to win matches.
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For someone who isn't even English I'd say he did more than most did for his country. I can think of born and bred footballers who have given the three lions alot less respect. He always gave his all in my opinion and will always be the best England player of my generation by a country mile. I cant wait to read his book.
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Cheap shot by Prior, uncalled for..
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KP is clearly a bit of a prat (if the swear filter wasn't in place is use other words) but I find the sycophantic nature of prior's words a bit worrying. If they want to try and prove that they aren't just a team of yes men to the captain and establishment then incidents like this just don't help
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Errr, what would you do if you were Prior?
Take events recently... Lost test series, got dropped from test team, team director walks, KP sacked.
You get asked a question which you want to answer...
Support what has gone on with an eye to reclaiming test place
Or
Stand up for KP and probably never play cricket for England again.
Prior did right. KP is the past (for now) and people need to move on. Maybe Cook isnt strong enough to manage KP, but if he can get a team without arguments all the time, maybe this will show whether he is a good enough captain.
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Or have respect for a fellow ex team mate and say that's none of my concern.
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Or have respect for a fellow ex team mate and say that's none of my concern.
Got to earn respect once you lose it. Think if it was the other way round, KP would certainly had an opinion.
Especially when MP had been the one helping KP reintegrate before he presumedly did something to turn against him.
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Kp will split opinions right down the middle
He's won games for us thats for sure.a brilliant batsman there's no doubt.
Swanny says today on bbc kp should of been booted after the textgate with straussy and the sa team.thats what i think too.
Prior was asked a question and answered it, by all accounts it was prior and cook who got kp back after that issue with the texts
I think this forum generally has the football style view of no matter how difficult you manage the individual.
Eg cantona,pierre van whats his name/jaap stam etc...
Thats a fair enough view and i dont think cook is a good man manager for a second
In football of course you can transfer a player....
You also need players who think for themselves,that means having an opinion,a load of yes men gets no where...
Its a difficult balance in a team game
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Its a difficult balance in a team game
Cricket is as much individual as it is team though. England want boring yes men and we all know that won't create a top team. Whose next to get the boot? Broad (he's a walking ego), stokes (obviously a bit of a trouble maker having been sent home etc)
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You make a good point and your right, it is an individual game within a team game
Are you also saying thou that regardless of how someone behaves who is being paid by the ecb you ignore everything and just carry on?
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Both of which have controlled themselves fairly well in their international careers recently clearly unlike KP.
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You make a good point and your right, it is an individual game within a team game
Are you also saying thou that regardless of how someone behaves who is being paid by the ecb you ignore everything and just carry on?
Depends what they do. IF they just tell x or y that they aren't good enough etc then why not? Everyone is allowed an opinion after all, if someone on my team keeps getting a game but really isn't good enough I'd hope people have the balls to say so rather than just two the party line. Can't use text gate etc as they'd forgiven that ( although I'd have kicked him out then tbh)
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Some interesting in sights by Swan on the radio over the last few days. After telling the management he was unable to bowl in the ashes (after the 2nd test!) he offered to stay on the tour for the final 2 tests and help Borthwick but was told to go home by Flower . Also KP wouldn't talk to anyone in the field, but would only whistle! I'm sure there are 2 sides to both stories, but whole tour sounds like a shambles, no wonder we got thrashed.
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Could the return yet be getting closer?!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/31963305 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/31963305)
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Yawn!
If he scores 5,000 county runs in April he'll be considered for selection. The selectors will then decide someone else will do the job better for England. He's been sacked and he won't be coming back again, he's doing nothing more than keeping his name in the news.
If I'm wrong and he plays again fair play to the ECB for admitting they cocked up, but I won't be holding my breath...
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Yawn!
If he scores 5,000 county runs in April he'll be considered for selection. The selectors will then decide someone else will do the job better for England. He's been sacked and he won't be coming back again, he's doing nothing more than keeping his name in the news.
If I'm wrong and he plays again fair play to the ECB for admitting they cocked up, but I won't be holding my breath...
I think it's worse that we have people quite happy to let the ECB off the hook for what they have done
Given the state of English cricket I think EVERY SINGLE player is playing for their contracts. WI are there for teh taking, they are crap. If you don't fill your boots then if KP, Compton, Carbs, Vince, Taylor score big runs in LVCC then they should be given a go. Closed shop needs to be ended.
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Yes it was a massive PR guff by the ECB, who played their part in feeding his ego and not just treating him like any player, but why can't he toddle off quietly. The one common denominator in all the published fall outs is the man himself.
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Yes it was a massive PR guff by the ECB, who played their part in feeding his ego and not just treating him like any player, but why can't he toddle off quietly. The one common denominator in all the published fall outs is the man himself.
why can't the men employed by the ECB to be accountable for decision making take responsibility for their actions and resign (resign so they don't get gardening leave, pay offs etc) ??
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Yes it was a massive PR guff by the ECB, who played their part in feeding his ego and not just treating him like any player, but why can't he toddle off quietly. The one common denominator in all the published fall outs is the man himself.
Why should he go away quietly. He is the best player England has had in quite a while. A match winner with X factor
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Match winner,X factor
Plus one of the few England batsmen, other teams worried about
That's far from the case with the current crop
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This situation has tuned into a case of "he said, she said" or rather "he said, he said". Team England are much better off with a " "rebuild" in sight for the 2019 CWC rather aiming for any short term gains by involving KP in the squad.
In 4 years, he will be old enough to retire. He is not winning England a CWC.
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I think it was Sangakkara I heard say something about Malinga, that nobody in the Sri Lanka dressing room likes him, he was always going off on his own and it was a full time job stopping a fight breaking out every time he was in the dressing room, but they did it, and it never put his place at risk, because who wouldn't have Malinga in their team? End of.
I used to always think about KP, the people who say he's arrogant "I'm not saying he's not good, but he's a show off, he's self-centred". He's Kevin Pietersen! If Mohammed Ali or Usain Bolt were British we'd do nothing but slag them off because as well as being the best in the world we need them to drink pints like Freddie and hate the aussies like Botham. I think it's a uniquely British thing that we want good players and once every 30 year when we get one we hate him because he's better than us and he knows it, it still makes me angry.
If he scores 5,000 county runs in April he'll be considered for selection. The selectors will then decide someone else will do the job better for England. He's been sacked and he won't be coming back again, he's doing nothing more than keeping his name in the news.
I was KPs biggest fan and comments like this used to totally miss the point in my mind, that he wasn't dropped because of cricket, he was dropped because of emtions and he should never have been. However, this changed after he was dropped from the ashes and he started insulting Prior on twitter, and sending sarcastic messages to the ECB the day his contract expired. I'd always believed, as much as he was a knob, when he said "I just want to play test cricket for England" he meant it. But when you're supposedly trying to work your way back and you're abusing the management on twitter? I finally realised he cares more about his image than the cricket he plays and I've given up on him.
That comment from WalkingWicket37 just made me think - if they're going to let him in, they'll want a couple of championship centuries from him, and is he going to put that in? I can't see it, so he must not really want it. So I don't care anymore, it was good while it lasted.
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This situation has tuned into a case of "he said, she said" or rather "he said, he said". Team England are much better off with a " "rebuild" in sight for the 2019 CWC rather aiming for any short term gains by involving KP in the squad.
In 4 years, he will be old enough to retire. He is not winning England a CWC.
if you are only thinking of the ODI world cup.. how old is KP? How old is Dilshan? Mahela? Sangakkara? Pretty sure KP will be their age and Sanga just score 4 tons in a row!
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I still reckon he'll be back - rumour has it he's signed for Surrey for the County season. Lets face it, even now, the 2nd division of the County Championship isn't going to be a challenge to KP. I genuinely hope he comes back and smashes 1000 runs by the end of May like the media keep banging on about, surely even the ECB muppets couldn't ignore that.
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It's Division 2 though. Thats just one of the reasons they can ignore him. Surely if he's serious, he needs to sign for a Div 1 County, whilst they won't admit it, Div 2 runs are useless. Otherwise James Vince would have been on a plane to Barbados, or even still Daryl Mitchell would have been as hyped as Adam Lyth.
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It's Division 2 though. Thats just one of the reasons they can ignore him. Surely if he's serious, he needs to sign for a Div 1 County, whilst they won't admit it, Div 2 runs are useless. Otherwise James Vince would have been on a plane to Barbados, or even still Daryl Mitchell would have been as hyped as Adam Lyth.
I don't think it matters, div 2 isn't going to make KP a worse player, he's not a young player coming through. Cook plays div 2 so it would smack of double standards if the ECB use that as stick to beat KP down.
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Tbh, i agree in that sense, but tbh, the ECB don't need a lot to beat KP down and that may well be something petty enough for them to cling onto
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It's Division 2 though. Thats just one of the reasons they can ignore him. Surely if he's serious, he needs to sign for a Div 1 County, whilst they won't admit it, Div 2 runs are useless. Otherwise James Vince would have been on a plane to Barbados, or even still Daryl Mitchell would have been as hyped as Adam Lyth.
wasn't most of ali's runs scored in div 2? What county did strauss play for? Cook? Finn? Morgan.. What comp were Ballance's FC runs scored in?
if he's scoring runs then he's in form so should be picked ahead of the guys currently playing who are avg'ing less than him, unable to influence a game like him.
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yep, i think it's odds on Whitaker will find something to blcok KP's path should he fullfill the ECB's requirements.
I think the Graves/Whitaker relationship is worth watching, Graves clearly doesn't mind cracking a few eggs and I suspect he (Graves) has had a conversation with Cook, judging by Cooks criticism of selection.
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wasn't most of ali's runs scored in div 2? What county did strauss play for? Cook? Finn? Morgan.. What comp were Ballance's FC runs scored in?
if he's scoring runs then he's in form so should be picked ahead of the guys currently playing who are avg'ing less than him, unable to influence a game like him.
It's something for the ECB to use against him if he's averiging say 50, rather than 100. So if he's doing well but not spectacularly.
Lets not forget quite how few runs he scored in the Blast last year. It's no forgone conclusion that he's going to score ten million runs. Chances are he's not the player he was. Point to Sangakarra all you want, but that man is a freak. Players lose their powers at varying stages. He's only doing this for an Ashes Swansong anyway, not the easiest attack to come out of retirement to, not to mention the Kiwi visit beforehand.
He's not the Messiah. He's not going to carry the team on his own, he's not going to take all the catches, he's not going to make our bowling attack any less impotent, he's not going to improve the worrying lack of quality bowling coming through, he's not going to solve the coaching issues, he's not going to make that much difference. It takes a team to win a Test Match. Not one, creaky knee-d, over the hill, mouthy Saffa.
All the people who want him back seem to think he's going to save England Cricket and return us to 2005.
He's not.
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It's something for the ECB to use against him if he's averiging say 50, rather than 100. So if he's doing well but not spectacularly.
Lets not forget quite how few runs he scored in the Blast last year. It's no forgone conclusion that he's going to score ten million runs. Chances are he's not the player he was. Point to Sangakarra all you want, but that man is a freak. Players lose their powers at varying stages. He's only doing this for an Ashes Swansong anyway, not the easiest attack to come out of retirement to, not to mention the Kiwi visit beforehand.
He's not the Messiah. He's not going to carry the team on his own, he's not going to take all the catches, he's not going to make our bowling attack any less impotent, he's not going to improve the worrying lack of quality bowling coming through, he's not going to solve the coaching issues, he's not going to make that much difference. It takes a team to win a Test Match. Not one, creaky knee-d, over the hill, mouthy Saffa.
All the people who want him back seem to think he's going to save England Cricket and return us to 2005.
He's not.
still stand more chance than with current load of wet blankets
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There's no point comparing his T20 performances to First Class - it's a totally different ball game after all.
All I fear is a 5-0 whitewash and a total waste of £500+ in Ashes tickets, KP would at least provide some entertainment and potentially save a game or two!!
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All the people who want him back seem to think he's going to save England Cricket and return us to 2005.
2012 would do.
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I think most people want the best XI selected and if KP scores runs then he is the best in the country. He won't fix England by himself but it's a step in the right direction.
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There's no point comparing his T20 performances to First Class - it's a totally different ball game after all.
All I fear is a 5-0 whitewash and a total waste of £500+ in Ashes tickets, KP would at least provide some entertainment and potentially save a game or two!!
buying a ECB over priced ashes ticket... oh dear, especially with the current ECB mob and the current test team.
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KP time to call it a day I think he is past it and if he not the last 18 months rightly or wrongly he has become a noose around English cricket.
The management and selectors all need sacking there all weak and it become a running joke yo wouldn't see this circus at club level everybody pulling in different direction.
Last Cook remark is baffling to be honest Moores is shocking too and looks like a clown following the circus.
KP has damaged ENGLISH cricket enough so have the boffins at the ECB.
Can we have our team back and install a tough single minded individual as both captain, and the same for a coach and bin the selectors.
This very thread shows we should be talking about our current side not bloody KP.
ECB hold your head in shame your spoiling cricket by being weak
KP YOU BEEN A LEGEND BUT NOT NO MORE MOVE ALONG
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absolutely second that procricket.
spot on.
we(England) are getting dragged thru the mire.i've lost count of the amount of 'clean starts' and 'fresh pages' following England but we genuinely do need a clear out
As for Cook....i'm with him 100 per cent. wrong man for the job? yes,because he's not a one day player.right to sack him with a month to go to a major tournament....surely not in anyone's book.
KP and those mis-managing our precious game should be got rid of. I don't ever want to see KP in an England shirt again
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Personally I think KP will score very heavily in Div 2 or if signed in Div 1. I think he is a very motivated individual with a huge amount of talent and he will score runs probably not just 100's but big hundreds including double hundreds. His motivation will be to prove to everyone he was right to now get sacked and that he is England's best batsmen.
The bloke can be a Knob. I doubt but he is a cricketer employed to score runs and win games and he has done that his whole career, let's not forget he is our highest run scorer I believe in history for England, the one player other teams fear and forget his age. Teams no doubt fear Sangkara, feared Brett Lee, Shane Warne, Glen. McGrath and feared them still in the later parts of there careers and KP once in form will still be feared.
If he is at the time of selection one of our best players England have a duty to the supporters that fund the ECB to pick him end of really.
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Who fears him now ????
I doubt anybody does
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Who fears him now ????
I doubt anybody does
still more than our current mob
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Who fears him now ????
I doubt anybody does
Any team will fear playing against him, the bloke is a batting genius. Yes he has not played longer format cricket in a while but I assure you if he gets the chance to play county cricket I would go straight to the bookies on him being the top county run scorer his desire to prove how good he is mixed with arrogance, commitment, hardwork and pure talent will allow that to happen.
That's my view anyway I just think that's the type of player and person he is.
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All I know is bloody KP and this ENGLAND management circus call it what you want is overshadowing what is important my cricket team.
I love KP as a player but sick of hearing about him and the bloody circus.
No player or crap management is bigger than the team crap from all sides
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All I know is bloody KP and this ENGLAND management circus call it what you want is overshadowing what is important my cricket team.
I love KP as a player but sick of hearing about him and the bloody circus.
No player or crap management is bigger than the team crap from all sides
but the guys in it now arent upto it, cant just leave them to be poor
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I guess where going to find out white ball red ball different kettle.
I suspect some people want England to fail just to say "I told you so"
Anybody watched BREWSTERS MILLIONS I vote none of the above KP AND ECB and the moron which is Morgan piers, and Moores
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I'm a big KP fan and love watching him play but I truly believe England should move on without him. I agree he would add some steel to the middle order but for how long? My approach would be to build a team around the aggressive younger players currently in the squad. And lets be honest the English front line bowler's are a bigger concern than 1 batsman.
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but the guys in it now arent upto it, cant just leave them to be poor
Steve Smith wasn't up to it 18 months ago and may get found out by the moving ball but what about the up and comin player take a James Vince a Adam LYth a James Taylor real untested people how you know there not up to it.
I was one of Root biggest critics but given time he has become a fine player all players deserve that chance
Who says untest people are not good enough.
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Steve Smith wasn't up to it 18 months ago and may get found out by the moving ball but what about the up and comin player take a James Vince a Adam LYth a James Taylor real untested people how you know there not up to it.
Who says untest people are not good enough.
not got a problem with them trying new players mate, just the current mob
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if you are only thinking of the ODI world cup.. how old is KP? How old is Dilshan? Mahela? Sangakkara? Pretty sure KP will be their age and Sanga just score 4 tons in a row!
I suspect you posted this before SL's earth shattering performance against SA while batting first. :D Yes, Sanga scored 4 tons in a row but he had one of the worst freezes of a batsman of his caliber in a knock-out game.
England has great cricket talent. ECB is better off nurturing that talent, grooming them for international level instead of dealing with KP drama. Make them play against the best, let them fight it out. They may lose. Big deal! They will learn and they will grow. If the right talent is not in the international squad, them find it, nurture it, and groom it. Wash, rinse, repeat.
This whole KP situation is a distraction for England cricket and continue to be until ECB shows some spine. If this kind of a situation arose in another setup, cricket fans (anywhere) would deem this situation a distraction too. Also, recurrence of such drama makes England cricket look bad. Yes, yes, I know the retort is "what about the recent results?". Still, move on. There are Taylor, Vince, Ali, Hales, Stokes (diamond in the rough, in my view. :) ) to work with. No shortage of young guns out there; change whatever that needs changing, take the talent and start running with them. Run like hell if you must. But get going and stop whining (or whinging - more British. ;) ). :)
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I suspect you posted this before SL's earth shattering performance against SA while batting first. :D Yes, Sanga scored 4 tons in a row but he had one of the worst freezes of a batsman of his caliber in a knock-out game.
England has great cricket talent. ECB is better off nurturing that talent, grooming them for international level instead of dealing with KP drama. Make them play against the best, let them fight it out. They may lose. Big deal! They will learn and they will grow. If the right talent is not in the international squad, them find it, nurture it, and groom it. Wash, rinse, repeat.
This whole KP situation is a distraction for England cricket and continue to be until ECB shows some spine. If this kind of a situation arose in another setup, cricket fans (anywhere) would deem this situation a distraction too. Also, recurrence of such drama makes England cricket look bad. Yes, yes, I know the retort is "what about the recent results?". Still, move on. There are Taylor, Vince, Ali, Hales, Stokes (diamond in the rough, in my view. :) ) to work with. No shortage of young guns out there; change whatever that needs changing, take the talent and start running with them. Run like hell if you must. But get going and stop whining (or whinging - more British. ;) ). :)
One bad game, hardly proving the point about age because he didn't play his best in one game. Moeen cant' play the short ball, buttler doesn't move his feet so nicks off, same with hales.. not really test players, well not if you assume they will play decent bowling. they'll obviously avg mid 30's at least due to the amount of weak crap around
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Here is one of supposed friends of KP on KP: "A lot of people will be asking whether Kevin Pietersen would have made a difference, including the man himself. He might have been able to provide some of the missing spark. Watching him in the BBL I wasn't sure he's quite the player he once was. The reality is that very few of us are when we get to that stage of our careers - Kumar Sangakkara being the obvious exception! Pietersen might have brought something helpful to the team, but it appears there is too much water under the bridge to go back there again."
http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/847795.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/847795.html)
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Here is one of supposed friends of KP on KP: "A lot of people will be asking whether Kevin Pietersen would have made a difference, including the man himself. He might have been able to provide some of the missing spark. Watching him in the BBL I wasn't sure he's quite the player he once was. The reality is that very few of us are when we get to that stage of our careers - Kumar Sangakkara being the obvious exception! Pietersen might have brought something helpful to the team, but it appears there is too much water under the bridge to go back there again."
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/847795.html[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/847795.html[/url])
I don't think KP will be the force he was. Thing is, we just don't know. IF.. IF he scores well in LVCC then he should be given the chance. England should pick the best xi and he would be in it
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On a side note, I saw the BBL commentary when KP sat next to Ponting. KP didn't want to talk about his book but Ponting kept goading him. It was a very disingenuous thing to do as a "friend". I don't remember Ponting complimenting KP's current form either. It seems like Ponting never misses an opportunity to take a dig at England cricket. KP is a convenient pawn. :D Why facilitate such "friends" with convenient "ammunition" ? Makes no sense to me. KP is bad juju.
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I don't think KP will be the force he was. Thing is, we just don't know. IF.. IF he scores well in LVCC then he should be given the chance. England should pick the best xi and he would be in it
England should think long term. Don't go for "instant gratification" ( I am part of that generation too, I won't deny it. :D ). I listed some guys who I think have tons of potential. I am sure there are more. ECB should work with those who 10-15 years of cricket left in them.
Tendulkar was no way near the finished article when he debuted. Waqar literally gave him a bloody nose in one of the matches but BCCI stuck with him. He did a fine job for his country. India lost a lot in the meantime and won a lot too and their fans are no less opinionated.
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but the guys in it now arent upto it, cant just leave them to be poor
Are you talking ODI or test cricket here?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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On a side note, I saw the BBL commentary when KP sat next to Ponting. KP didn't want to talk about his book but Ponting kept goading him. It was a very disingenuous thing to do as a "friend". I don't remember Ponting complimenting KP's current form either. It seems like Ponting never misses an opportunity to take a dig at England cricket. KP is a convenient pawn. :D Why facilitate such "friends" with convenient "ammunition" ? Makes no sense to me. KP is bad juju.
It was planned and KP new all the questions were coming, there was nothing disingenuous about it.
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^ Really? Then why did KP said that I want to move on and not talk about my book? Ponting kept egging him after that comment.
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Theatre.
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^ Then KP should try his luck at the Broadway or Westend. Too bad his Graham Norton appearance did not much for his studio cred. ;)
In all seriousness, if that "banter" was pre-meditated, then I question KP's integrity and England are better off without him.
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Correct, he is a massive tool.
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Why should he go away quietly. He is the best player England has had in quite a while. A match winner with X factor
If his heart was 100% in regaining his England place he would have gone straight back to country cricket and scored a ton of runs and made it almost impossible to be ignored. Just feel he's gone about it entirely the wrong way, much like the ECB did in the first place.
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He cant be exepcted to have donenthat - they were quite explicit at the tine that it wouldnt matter how many runs he scored.
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If his heart was 100% in regaining his England place he would have gone straight back to country cricket and scored a ton of runs and made it almost impossible to be ignored. Just feel he's gone about it entirely the wrong way, much like the ECB did in the first place.
and he needed the break for his knee
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daily telegraph reporting a trace is going to be called with KP and the ECB,with the ECB backing down from this 'never going to be picked,we've moved on' stance.
It may just be a journalist trying to get ahead of the story or may be true.
It doesn't mean he will be selected it means he is no longer 'barred' from being so.
Interesting development, although maybe the forum is fed up of this story.
Personally, there's no doubt the ECB handled it like a bunch of ameteurs, it's almost comical, that doesn't mean I want to see KP back again because I don't.
But it's always very thin ground when the reason given is basically the bloke is a total moron.I'm sure we all know players like that in our clubs, and often with serious talent too. :)
I think someone up top, new boss perobably, has finally realised the damage being done to our game ha got to stop.
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I think a lot of people were quite happy to see KP dropped on merit/fitness. It's just the ECB's idiotic stance that makes me want him back, in order to see some humble pie shared round.
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I think a lot of people were quite happy to see KP dropped on merit/fitness. It's just the ECB's idiotic stance that makes me want him back, in order to see some humble pie shared round.
Dropped on merit? The bloke was the leading run scorer in last series he played for his country.
As for fitness that's not a reason to permanently drop him. Send him away on a break, miss a series or two while the knee heals and get him back in when fit again if he warrants selection.
I know I've stated he won't play again (the ECB have made as much clear) but I do feel sorry for the bloke. At the end of the day he was treated like (No Swearing Please) by his employer, and had it been a "real world job" he'd probably have a very good case for constructive dismissal.
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He still hadn't scored many runs in the last year though has he?
They could've dropped him, and all the other batsmen on merit!
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I think a lot of people were quite happy to see KP dropped on merit/fitness. It's just the ECB's idiotic stance that makes me want him back, in order to see some humble pie shared round.
remind me who was the top run scorer in the 2013 ashes? remind me who is the highest test match run scorer?
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and all the other batsmen on merit!
and that's the point. TBH, I couldn't really care less about KP. It's this duel standards thing that is being applied. IF you drop a player on form/merit and he's your best batsmen then the rest must go too!! if they drop the lot then fair enough, otherwise, KP might have scored the most runs since his sacking.. who knows
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remind me who was the top run scorer in the 2013 ashes? remind me who is the highest test match run scorer?
David Warner and Sachin Tendulkar?
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hear what you are saying pro cricketer...here's one thing to consider. you are all bound together playing for England, not from England, playing for England, the bloke sitting next to you has caused so much aggravation and is such a bad influence you cant stand the bloke. ***let's presume for a min that is true***
At what point do you say 'enough is enough' this bloke is un-manageable, a bad influence and cannot get on with his colleagues.
Are you saying(presuming it's true that is) that it's the managements role to manage the player and totally forget what sort of personaility he is?
if you look back thru football,when Cantona moved from Leeds to Man U he was described as 'un-manageable' -he wasn't and turned Man U into a force.Ferguson managed him.
Just so I/we can understand you points on here about KP
Is that where you are coming from? KP is a talent and a loose cannon...manage him or get someone in who can manage him?
is that your bottom line
:)
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hear what you are saying pro cricketer...here's one thing to consider. you are all bound together playing for England, not from England, playing for England, the bloke sitting next to you has caused so much aggravation and is such a bad influence you cant stand the bloke. ***let's presume for a min that is true***
At what point do you say 'enough is enough' this bloke is un-manageable, a bad influence and cannot get on with his colleagues.
Are you saying(presuming it's true that is) that it's the managements role to manage the player and totally forget what sort of personaility he is?
if you look back thru football,when Cantona moved from Leeds to Man U he was described as 'un-manageable' -he wasn't and turned Man U into a force.Ferguson managed him.
Just so I/we can understand you points on here about KP
Is that where you are coming from? KP is a talent and a loose cannon...manage him or get someone in who can manage him?
is that your bottom line
:)
Yes, it happens every day. You can't choose your work colleagues and I bet you don't like some of them?
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youre right I don't. I don't like some of the muppets at my cricket club either. :)
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youre right I don't. I don't like some of the muppets at my cricket club either. :)
I play with 7 Kevin Pietersens and 3 Dave "I'll punch you in the head" Warners every week so I know the feeling! ;)
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Dropped on merit? The bloke was the leading run scorer in last series he played for his country.
As for fitness that's not a reason to permanently drop him. Send him away on a break, miss a series or two while the knee heals and get him back in when fit again if he warrants selection.
I know I've stated he won't play again (the ECB have made as much clear) but I do feel sorry for the bloke. At the end of the day he was treated like (No Swearing Please) by his employer, and had it been a "real world job" he'd probably have a very good case for constructive dismissal.
Dismissal under 'some other substantial reason'.
He brought it on himself with all the previous issues he's had. He is hardly an innocent party in all this.
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hear what you are saying pro cricketer...here's one thing to consider. you are all bound together playing for England, not from England, playing for England, the bloke sitting next to you has caused so much aggravation and is such a bad influence you cant stand the bloke. ***let's presume for a min that is true***
At what point do you say 'enough is enough' this bloke is un-manageable, a bad influence and cannot get on with his colleagues.
Are you saying(presuming it's true that is) that it's the managements role to manage the player and totally forget what sort of personaility he is?
if you look back thru football,when Cantona moved from Leeds to Man U he was described as 'un-manageable' -he wasn't and turned Man U into a force.Ferguson managed him.
Just so I/we can understand you points on here about KP
Is that where you are coming from? KP is a talent and a loose cannon...manage him or get someone in who can manage him?
is that your bottom line
:)
yes. Isn't that what a good man manager would do?? Fergie managed it with Roy Keane, Cantona etc. Just shows, if you have the right coach then it'll be fine. This is professional sport, it doesn't matter if KP gets on with Broad off the field. Be Pro's, on the field play well, off the field I couldn't give a crap if they share a beer/meal or never speak to each other! I cant' stand half the people at my work, most are idiots who think they are clever and tick boxers, so unless I have to speak to them I completely ignore them. does it affect work? no.
Gill and warne hated each other, yet on the field you'd never have guessed.
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yes. Isn't that what a good man manager would do?? Fergie managed it with Roy Keane, Cantona etc. Just shows, if you have the right coach then it'll be fine. This is professional sport, it doesn't matter if KP gets on with Broad off the field. Be Pro's, on the field play well, off the field I couldn't give a crap if they share a beer/meal or never speak to each other! I cant' stand half the people at my work, most are idiots who think they are clever and tick boxers, so unless I have to speak to them I completely ignore them. does it affect work? no.
Gill and warne hated each other, yet on the field you'd never have guessed.
But football teams don't go on multi-month tours all the time.
Could you go and be in close contact with all those you hate/that hate you for 4 months non-stop?
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Don't think Gilly and Slates were mates either, so the urban myth goes.
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Dismissal under 'some other substantial reason'.
He brought it on himself with all the previous issues he's had. He is hardly an innocent party in all this.
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whta about Broad and the KP account?? that's unacceptable surely?/ grounds certainly for dismissal
Prior, anderson, swann...
Cooks been aweful
all these deserve to have been fired just as much as KP. THAT is why I'm so against the ECB and am on KP's side.. not because I think KP is right or is the saviour but because of the way it's one rule for one, one rule for another, the way it was managed, the lack of responsibility the ECB clowns showed and are still showing, the 'outside' cricket type comments they keep doing..
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But football teams don't go on multi-month tours all the time.
Could you go and be in close contact with all those you hate/that hate you for 4 months non-stop?
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I've been to war in a team of 8, when I hated 2 of them, disliked 2 others and only had 1 that I'd call a friend.. so yes, it can be done quite easily. Only reason you wouldn't is if you are mentally weak or a cry baby
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Dismissal under 'some other substantial reason'.
He brought it on himself with all the previous issues he's had. He is hardly an innocent party in all this.
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He wasn't by any means totally blameless, but they had every opportunity to sack him for previous incidents and didn't.
No matter which way you look at this the whole thing is farcical.
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the whole thing is farcical.
It is completely farcical, damaging to the ECB especially and English cricket as a whole. However, I'm not in the 'move on' camp purely because of the way the ECB acted and continue to act. They do not deserve to be let of the hook, the whole lot (not just whittikar, downton and co) need to resign (or fired, depending which means they don't get a pay out/bonus/pension)
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whta about Broad and the KP account?? that's unacceptable surely?/ grounds certainly for dismissal
Prior, anderson, swann...
Cooks been aweful
all these deserve to have been fired
Blimey! Your Alan Sugar you are!
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Blimey! Your Alan Sugar you are!
[/quotpeople are paid to take responsibility.. that means when it goes wrong you carry the can. modern world people want the pay for it but when it goes wrong dont take responsibility
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But I think you've sacked everybody. Is there anyone left?
Who is your coach andwho is your starting XI?
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compton
lyth
trott
root
Bell
Ballance
read
rest bowlers. spinner and the rest pace
anderson is fine at home this year though. finn out and broad
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KP is still one of the best T20 and One day bats that England has when he is in form and as much as youth is needed in a squad you can never overlook experience and who is to say that if KP and lets say Ali Cook were in the World Cup squad that it would not have been a different story. Your only as good as your last innings I know but so much experience is being left behind for at times under performing youth.
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http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/england-door-still-open-for-wg-grace-2015030595956
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Sums it up perfectly.
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Another hurdle cleared it seems!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/31949741 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/31949741)
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Nearly there, nearly...
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come on KP.. get back and score some big runs. really show the ECB up!!
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This will show how narrow minded the ECB and selectors really are if KP performs
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If he really wanted to make his point he'd find a division one side to play for...
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If he really wanted to make his point he'd find a division one side to play for...
Possibly but love him or hate him he's putting his money where his mouth is
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Makes no difference what division he's in - Moeen made all his runs in Div 2 and look at him now, whoever he ends up playing for (very likely Surrey) he just needs to make sure he scores a bag full of them!
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Makes no difference what division he's in - Moeen made all his runs in Div 2 and look at him now, whoever he ends up playing for (very likely Surrey) he just needs to make sure he scores a bag full of them!
would still be a bigger statement to do it taking on the very best.
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If he really wanted to make his point he'd find a division one side to play for...
why?
Cook?
Strauss?
Ali?
Finn?
Tredwell?
Anderson?
all are or have been div 2 players have they not? I don't disagree that England should be pushing players to play div 1 rather than div 2 BUT you can't count that against him as it hasn't done anyone else any harm
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England players very rarely play for their counties anyway (even those not contracted), so it doesn't make difference who they play for. Even if there was transfer system as in football, who in div 1 is going to buy an England player who has dropped down to div 2/or already playing there if they are only going to get a couple of games a season out of that player, at best. TBH county cricket is irrelevant for KP, it doesn't matter whether he smashes div 1 or div 2, it's just ticking a box.
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It doesn't matter if he plays Div 1 or Div 2, the ECB will claim there's better players regardless.
They may use the Div 2 runs as an excuse, but it's not like the ECB to be hypocritical now is it...
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no one can doubt is commitment. gonna be so pumped if he does comeback.
Although in all fairness id have told the ECB to go (No Swearing Please) themselves after the way he has been treated
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Although in all fairness id have told the ECB to go (No Swearing Please) themselves after the way he has been treated
It's what the fans should have done anyway after seeing the way the ECB have acted (there is enough evidence out there now to have completely discredited the ECB management, Selectors, Cook/Flower and Moores)
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Read the standard on the train on the way home and they were reporting Cook will quit as captain if KP gets anywhere near the team again. Could be an interesting few months, I think Mr Cook has enough to worry about on his own game than KP just for now!
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I would not be surprised at all if cook quit.massive admiration for the guy but as was mentioned in another post he is mentally shot
English cricket has been thru a terrible time and i reckon cook knows it could get worse.Cook cares deeply about representing his country and the team.KP cares deeply about himself,his money and keeping his name in the headlines
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I think the team, whoever plays, will struggle from the South Africa tour for about 18 months as there is a talent/preparedness gap between those past their zenith and those coming through - most of the comedy will be off the field
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New guy Graves is in the press today.its pretty clear he talks more directly than previous old boys club chairmen.
We need that,maybe some yorkshire straight talking is the answer
Interesting comments about protecting Cook and letting him concentrate on cricket
He either knows there is a problem or can see one coming
At last we have someone prepared to do something
Lets see...
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Who in the England side would want to play with KP?
Slated most of the team and people around the team in his book. Those he didn't speak badly of we're probably mates of the guys he did. Who'd want to hang around with someone who will probably rip you to shreds in his next book for some more sales???
With his past injuries, how long does he really have in the side before the next injury/bust up? He'll score runs, but it really is a short term fix. Give someone like Taylor/stokes a proper go in the side.
Anyone else thought this might be the Ecb getting back at him and letting him give up the ipl after the way he spoke about them and the players?
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Who in the England side would want to play with KP?
Slated most of the team and people around the team in his book. Those he didn't speak badly of we're probably mates of the guys he did. Who'd want to hang around with someone who will probably rip you to shreds in his next book for some more sales???
With his past injuries, how long does he really have in the side before the next injury/bust up? He'll score runs, but it really is a short term fix. Give someone like Taylor/stokes a proper go in the side.
Anyone else thought this might be the Ecb getting back at him and letting him give up the ipl after the way he spoke about them and the players?
most of the current side will be fine with it as he's helped some of them when they first started or they have never played int eh same team. Only Broad, Cook and Anderson will/may have a problem and tbh.. anderson is finished, Broad is fininshed and cook can't score a run...
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would still be a bigger statement to do it taking on the very best.
Very Best? Spoken tongue in cheek I'm guessing? ???
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ECB needs an overhaul and Graves is certainly talking the talk before he takes up the role.
Couldn't care less if the team don't get on, it's international sport and IMO dressing rooms that are winning don't have problems. Is KP still one of the best XI players in England, Im not so sure. However if he plays county cricket and scores runs and others in the team aren't then he deserves to be considered.
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KP has re-signed for surrey this morning.
Ali Cook, Paul Downton and John Whittaker have just pooped in their pants as they know that 2 of them are going to loose their jobs by the end of May...
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I'd imagine all the Div 2 bowlers just pooped their pants too.
'Well done lads we've got them 2 down!'
'Great now we get to bowl at Sanga & KP'
I can see teams grassing plenty of chances just to keep the openers in!
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Gareth Batty must be thinking all his Christmases have come at once. This has to be good for the County game - add some fire back into the circuit, even if KP doesn't challenge for a place in the England squad. It will be interesting to see how Alec Stewart manages KP - taste of the future for him post his current Directorship at Surrey?
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Gareth Batty must be thinking all his Christmases have come at once. This has to be good for the County game - add some fire back into the circuit, even if KP doesn't challenge for a place in the England squad. It will be interesting to see how Alec Stewart manages KP - taste of the future for him post his current Directorship at Surrey?
I bet Stewart does a better job than Moores & co.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevinpietersen/11494067/Kevin-Pietersen-Why-I-will-do-anything-to-play-for-England-again.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevinpietersen/11494067/Kevin-Pietersen-Why-I-will-do-anything-to-play-for-England-again.html)
All his salary is going to charity too
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I bet Stewart does a better job than Moores & co.
I tend to agree. It is also a win win for Stewart's profile. If this ends badly, Surrey will be able to say ''it is not our fault'' but at least we gave it a chance; however, if this goes well, Stewart will be seen in a very positive light as being able to manage one of the most notorious characters in the English game. Win win.
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KP has taken Whitakers Bishop
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most of the current side will be fine with it as he's helped some of them when they first started or they have never played int eh same team. Only Broad, Cook and Anderson will/may have a problem and tbh.. anderson is finished, Broad is fininshed and cook can't score a run...
I doubt they'll be swapping in 2 different seamers for the 2 most experienced bowlers. Cook is still captain and is out of form.
Still, most of the side he played in hadn't played with him before and did a great job winning them over.....
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I doubt they'll be swapping in 2 different seamers for the 2 most experienced bowlers. Cook is still captain and is out of form.
Still, most of the side he played in hadn't played with him before and did a great job winning them over.....
who didn't he win over? Pretty sure it's well documented that all the jnr players liked him and he helped them. Players like swann, carbs and co all said he did nothing wrong etc
You've fallen hook line and stinker for the ECB dodgy dossier
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@ProCricketer1982 further making a mockery of the ECB dossier, didn't a few people who had been in and around the squad come out and back up KPs version of events too?
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"Like a child": http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/32087190 (http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/32087190)
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yes I read that. an unusually strong article from the former Aussie coach
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couldn't possibly be that the aussies would rather he wasn't int he side could it? They'd rather face billy root, sherminator, hapless cook and co than a resurgent KP
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couldn't possibly be that the aussies would rather he wasn't int he side could it? They'd rather face billy root, sherminator, hapless cook and co than a resurgent KP
And her lies the very issue.
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yes I read that. an unusually strong article from the former Aussie coach
If you'd read the article, you'd know that it wasn't written by the former Aussie coach.
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couldn't possibly be that the aussies would rather he wasn't int he side could it? They'd rather face billy root, sherminator, hapless cook and co than a resurgent KP
He's resurgent before he's even played! The power of Twitter?
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If you'd read the article, you'd know that it wasn't written by the former Aussie coach.
'according to Australia's most successful coach John Buchanan.'
zzzz
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couldn't possibly be that the aussies would rather he wasn't int he side could it? They'd rather face billy root, sherminator, hapless cook and co than a resurgent KP
It might come as a shock, but Australia's most successful coach probably doesn't think like a village cricketer might.
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The Buchanan article did make me chuckle..
Don't pick KP and make sure you keep hold of Moores.. Ok, John, whatever you say!
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Not in the squad for Surreys pre-season 2 day friendly tomorrow unfortunately. Guess that was to be expected.
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well, given he is in Australia at the moment, yeah...
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well, given he is in Australia at the moment, yeah...
That would make sense ;).
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Out of interest. What will Surrey's XI look like for the first game against Glamorgan?
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Out of interest. What will Surrey's XI look like for the first game against Glamorgan?
Assuming Sanga is there? Something like:
Burns
Roy/Sibley
Sangakkara
Pietersen
Davies
Foakes
Ansari
Batty
Tremlett/Balcombe
Dunn/Meaker
Linley
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Assuming Sanga is there? Something like:
Burns
Roy/Sibley
Sangakkara
Pietersen
Davies
Foakes
Ansari
Batty
Tremlett/Balcombe
Dunn/Meaker
Linley
I'm defo off to watch on the mon, tues and weds with sanga and KP there.
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Seems a shame to have Anasari at 7 - also a seamer light I'd say.
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It will be
Burns
ansari
sanga
kp
Davies
Wilson wk
batty
Tremlett
meaker
Dunn
Linley won't play, which is a shame. Wilson may captain and batty may have to drop himself to allow the extra seamer.
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No Roy? I thought he was the great white hope?
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Only ten names on my list! Roy at 6
sorry!
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Not good news for the younger and fringe players like sibley and Harinath
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Not good news for the younger and fringe players like sibley and Harinath
better news for the county game though surely?? fringe and younger players are probably decreasing the quality.. I think people would rather see Sangakarra or KP than fringe players who aren't really good enough.
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I agree that you want high quality players playing county cricket. But it's also Difficult to know whether they are good enough if they aren't getting the opportunity.
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I agree that you want high quality players playing county cricket. But it's also Difficult to know whether they are good enough if they aren't getting the opportunity.
If they ARE good enough they will get a go... You can't ignore talent for long
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It will be
Burns
ansari
sanga
kp
Davies
Wilson wk
batty
Tremlett
meaker
Dunn
Linley won't play, which is a shame. Wilson may captain and batty may have to drop himself to allow the extra seamer.
Don't agree on two points - firstly, I don't see Wilson keeping Foakes out of the side - no way would he have left Essex as he did without some pretty firm assurances about his place in the side (plus, if Wilson was going to start the season with the gloves, they would probabaly have kept him on as skipper). Second, for most of last season they used Roy as the fourth seamer and he did an okay job for them - I'd imagine in early season conditions even more so - so suspect that Batty will deem his own place safe.
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I agree that you want high quality players playing county cricket. But it's also Difficult to know whether they are good enough if they aren't getting the opportunity.
When they are good enough they'll know. They'll be racking up avg's in the 2's around 70 and avg'ing in club cricket 100 odd