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General Cricket => World Cricket => England => Topic started by: Manormanic on April 24, 2017, 08:45:49 PM

Title: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Manormanic on April 24, 2017, 08:45:49 PM
Cook
Probably Hameed
Root
Probably Jennings
Bairstow
WOR Sturkes
AN Other
Ali/Rashid
Woakes/Wood
Broad
Jimmy

One batting slot. If I had to bet right now, its Livingstone.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: six and out on April 24, 2017, 08:49:25 PM
Do we think Buttlers place has been lost? Will barely play a FC game (if any) before the tests this summer but didn't do dreadfully at the end of the India tour. Also the kind of guy who could have the awkward number 7 spot.

I believe that they are really trying to get him in the side however i can't see Ali batting in the top 5 at home or in Australia, so that puts him at either 7 or 8 as Stokes will bat at 6.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on April 24, 2017, 08:50:45 PM
I'm sorry, but 2 spinners has got to be the the way forward.
Ali and Rashid!

I accept that Ali needn't necessarily bat at 5.

Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: six and out on April 24, 2017, 08:58:35 PM
Cook
Probably Hameed
Root
Probably Jennings
Bairstow
WOR Sturkes
AN Other
Ali/Rashid
Woakes/Wood
Broad
Jimmy

One batting slot. If I had to bet right now, its Livingstone.

Yep thats pretty much what i reckon.

I think they might look at someone at 7 who gives them an extra option with the ball. So a batter who bowls a bit like Livingstone or even a batting allrounder. Rather than an out and out batter.

I do think it might get interesting if Hameed keeps on getting naff all and the likes of Stoneman smashing it round the park and also the option of Jennings opening and Root at 3 and picking someone else.

Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on April 24, 2017, 09:07:03 PM
Please not a batsman at 7!
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: rickjames on April 24, 2017, 10:24:41 PM
I think Root goes back to 4 and Jennings slots in at 3, captains orders. And for the love of God don't move Ali back down to 8, doesn't deserve it.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on April 25, 2017, 01:31:48 AM
Hameed, Jennings, Cook, Root, Ali, Stokes, Bairstow, Woakes, Rashid, Broad, Anderson.

For me, the biggest question marks are still the openers. Hameed obviously has a big future,  but he's still very young and his current form is sketchy, to say the least.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Sam on April 25, 2017, 05:53:48 AM
I think Root goes back to 4 and Jennings slots in at 3, captains orders. And for the love of God don't move Ali back down to 8, doesn't deserve it.

I think he'll get slaughtered by the Aussie quicks this winter in the top 6. Given Root is batting 3 for Yorkshire with multiple alternatives available for that job I wonder if that's a sign of where he intends to bat for England.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: it's_a_pudding on April 25, 2017, 06:12:06 AM
For me I think

Hameed
Jennings
Cook
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Wood
Anderson

Can see ballance getting a call if Hameed keeps on not performing if that's the case cook and root up on.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on April 25, 2017, 06:20:45 AM
5 seamers? Really?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Alvaro on April 25, 2017, 07:09:04 AM
When's the first test.... ? 🙈
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: six and out on April 25, 2017, 07:32:31 AM
No matter which bowlers play there will definitely be rotation - we are playing 7 Tests (4 vs SA and 3 vs WI) in 9 weeks

That includes the 1st and 2nd plus the 3rd and 4th Tests in the SA series are technically back to back (only 3 days break if they go 5 days) and 1st and 2nd Tests in the WI series.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on April 25, 2017, 08:05:23 AM
Rotation means not playing them all at once!

I'd like to think Footitt might be in the mix at some point.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on April 25, 2017, 08:07:25 AM
When's the first test.... ? 🙈

And why does a County Champpionship thread inevitably turn into a thread about the make up of the England team?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Manormanic on April 25, 2017, 08:10:05 AM
On the rotation issue, I suspect that there will indeed be some common sense applied - unusual thing to say about England!  I would imagine that that will mean that the "first choice" quartet/quintet (Anderson, Broad, Woakes, Sturkes, Wood) play the South Africa series before the guys who are battling for the remaining slots on the plane to Australia come in for the West Indies (Ball, Finn, Roland-Jones, Plunkett plus any bolters).

This, of course, assumes that Anderson is going to be taken Down Under.  There have been mutterings that he might be invited to sit it out - the pitches and balls won't suit him, and he has a lot of miles on the clock for that.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on April 25, 2017, 08:18:00 AM
Kent and Notts both 3 from 3 in Div 2.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Alvaro on April 25, 2017, 08:43:01 AM
And why does a County Champpionship thread inevitably turn into a thread about the make up of the England team?

A common lament...

Chris Dent made a proper hundred yesterday against Durham in the dark. Proper county champ batting.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: it's_a_pudding on April 25, 2017, 09:11:36 AM
Looking at the squads just announced for the odi's there isn't any change other than wood in for finn which was quite obvious. I can't see Jimmy starting I australia when we go over there. Going back to championship though there is a few players looking good would have been nice to see a different squad face Ireland give some people ago like Malan, jennings, Roland-jones etc.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on April 25, 2017, 09:41:15 AM
Or maybe we could just give them credit for being very good cricketers?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on April 25, 2017, 11:30:26 AM
Hameed, Jennings, Cook, Root, Ali, Stokes, Bairstow, Woakes, Rashid, Broad, Anderson.

For me, the biggest question marks are still the openers. Hameed obviously has a big future,  but he's still very young and his current form is sketchy, to say the least.

What is this fascination with Cook not opening? Batted there his entire career pretty much much and is certainly one of if not the best opening bat in world cricket at test level.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: northernboy1987 on April 25, 2017, 11:37:02 AM
What is this fascination with Cook not opening? Batted there his entire career pretty much much and is certainly one of if not the best opening bat in world cricket at test level.

THIS!! I don't understand why you would bat the man who has scored the most test runs of all time as an opener anywhere other than 1 or 2?!
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: FattusCattus on April 25, 2017, 11:55:25 AM
agreed! If it is to be Hammed and Jennings (although Stoneman, Gubbins and a couple of others might have something to say abut that), then they have to earn their stripes and one of them has to drop down a place.

I like a RH/LH opening partnership of possible,
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: rickjames on April 25, 2017, 12:33:34 PM
Because CBF members like to come up with bizarre ideas, I guess. I did like that time he batted at 7 though...
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: edge on April 25, 2017, 12:48:09 PM
If selection was actually done by a CBF vote, the England team would look very different... and change weekly, depending on who got runs in the last championship round!
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Manormanic on April 25, 2017, 01:11:21 PM
And why does a County Champpionship thread inevitably turn into a thread about the make up of the England team?

I could add a few observations about the RCB stitching Yorkshire up if that would assuage your concerns?  :)

Or I could give some more informed thoughts on Young Lawrence, having seen him at Lords t'other day.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: edge on April 25, 2017, 01:19:54 PM
I could add a few observations about the RCB stitching Yorkshire up if that would assuage your concerns?  :)

Or I could give some more informed thoughts on Young Lawrence, having seen him at Lords t'other day.
Why, were Yorkshire planning on signing Tymal Mills if he didn't get an IPL gig? :D
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on April 25, 2017, 02:11:15 PM
What is this fascination with Cook not opening? Batted there his entire career pretty much much and is certainly one of if not the best opening bat in world cricket at test level.

I hadn't actually made a firm decision. I just chose to list them in that order.  Jennings and Hameed like to open, and Cook is an experienced head and phlegmatic character?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on April 25, 2017, 02:52:18 PM
Or I could give some more informed thoughts on Young Lawrence, having seen him at Lords t'other day.

Impressive that you should travel all the way down from Yorkshire just to tick him off your list!
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on April 25, 2017, 02:54:43 PM
If selection was actually done by a CBF vote, the England team would look very different... and change weekly, depending on who got runs in the last championship round!

So true!
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Batbuddy99 on April 25, 2017, 03:34:43 PM
Why, were Yorkshire planning on signing Tymal Mills if he didn't get an IPL gig? :D
Probably to do with Head being the Yorkie overseas last year
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Manormanic on April 25, 2017, 04:37:44 PM
Impressive that you should travel all the way down from Yorkshire just to tick him off your list!

When you assume...

I haven't lived in Yorkshire for twenty years.  Lords is actually my local first class ground (if you discount Uxbridge)
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: ppccopener on April 25, 2017, 04:44:40 PM
When you assume...

I haven't lived in Yorkshire for twenty years.  Lords is actually my local first class ground (if you discount Uxbridge)

it never leaves you thou Manor I would guess does it?. I play with a Yorkshireman and it's like nothing else in the world exists apart from Yorkshire. The only glimmer of non bias I got in the last 30 years was the Truman v Anderson who is best conversation over a pint.

''oh....eye....Fred was good, he really was, Jimmy the best at what he does''......  Truman was quicker, Jimmy moves it more.....'can't split them'




 :) :)

Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Manormanic on April 25, 2017, 06:25:05 PM
it never leaves you thou Manor I would guess does it?. I play with a Yorkshireman and it's like nothing else in the world exists apart from Yorkshire. The only glimmer of non bias I got in the last 30 years was the Truman v Anderson who is best conversation over a pint.

''oh....eye....Fred was good, he really was, Jimmy the best at what he does''......  Truman was quicker, Jimmy moves it more.....'can't split them'

:) :)

Never leaves you - as long as you don't have to spend too much time there! :)

But your friend is clearly neither a true Yorkshireman nor a man who knows the first thing about cricket.  Trueman was an all time great - in with a great shout of making an all time world XI - whereas Anderson would be no better than 50/50 to make an all time England squad. 
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on April 25, 2017, 07:28:44 PM
Never leaves you - as long as you don't have to spend too much time there! :)

But your friend is clearly neither a true Yorkshireman nor a man who knows the first thing about cricket.  Trueman was an all time great - in with a great shout of making an all time world XI - whereas Anderson would be no better than 50/50 to make an all time England squad.

Trueman was indeed an all time great but I have a feeling we will not realise how good Anderson is until he is no longer playing test cricket. For me he would certainly make an all time English test side espicially in home conditions and although I'm no statto I do believe in most countries he has played more than 1 series in his figures are pretty good.

As for the test side and some comments in this thread I do not believe Butler warrents a test spot either as the glove man or batsmen at the moment, his first class matches in the last couple of years are basically nothing. Bairstow is by far the nailed on keeper and at test level the better batsmen in my opinion. Cook must open for as long as he plays international cricket and his partner well Hameed looks a cut above Jennings in my view and a ready made replacement for cook in style and temperament which is what we need as we have more power/dynamic players than most other countries. Bowling wise we need to find a quality spinner but quite who I'm not sure apart from that it kind of picks itself the rest of the side
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Seniorplayer on April 25, 2017, 07:39:15 PM
I think Root goes back to 4 and Jennings slots in at 3, captains orders. And for the love of God don't move Ali back down to 8, doesn't deserve it.

Probably is he's failed higher up and done reasonablly well at 8.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Seniorplayer on April 25, 2017, 07:43:47 PM
I'm sorry, but 2 spinners has got to be the the way forward.
Ali and Rashid!

I accept that Ali needn't necessarily bat at 5.

Yes if  the pitch is  a 5 dayer going to spin and you bat first.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Alvaro on April 26, 2017, 06:58:21 AM
Probably is he's failed higher up and done reasonablly well at 8.

He scored two Test hundreds in India. And one at 7 last summer. More than Vince, cook, Hales, Buttler, Ballance in the same period. But do keep the narrative going.

Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Manormanic on April 26, 2017, 07:02:20 AM
Trueman was indeed an all time great but I have a feeling we will not realise how good Anderson is until he is no longer playing test cricket. For me he would certainly make an all time English test side espicially in home conditions and although I'm no statto I do believe in most countries he has played more than 1 series in his figures are pretty good.

Oh, I agree that Anderson is an exceptional bowler, but Trueman was the greatest English quick of all time.  In terms of an all time side (well, a post WW2 side, because I think its close to impossible to compare when there is not even newsreel footage of players) I reckon Anderson would be close, but far from guaranteed.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Alvaro on April 26, 2017, 07:04:11 AM
How many away Tests did Trueman play?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: ppccopener on April 26, 2017, 07:28:35 AM
How many away Tests did Trueman play?

not going to question stats (or much else) with you Alvaro but I believe the correct answer to that is of his 67 test matches 20 were away.

 :)
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: northernboy1987 on April 26, 2017, 08:04:18 AM
The comparisons between Trueman and Anderson are pointless as there's no way of ever getting a fair comparison. For example it seems entirely plausible that Anderson would have wreaked absolute havoc on those old uncovered wickets that Trueman bowled on therefore perhaps, had Anderson been playing in the 50's and 60's with exactly the same skills as he has today he would have been revered in the same way as Trueman. Also, and I'm not seriously suggesting this would be the case but just to play devil's advocate, who's to say that on today's flatter, tamer pitches Trueman wouldn't have ended up a talented nearly man a'la Steven Finn.
Title: !)
Post by: ppccopener on April 26, 2017, 08:10:41 AM
The comparisons between Trueman and Anderson are pointless as there's no way of ever getting a fair comparison. For example it seems entirely plausible that Anderson would have wreaked absolute havoc on those old uncovered wickets that Trueman bowled on therefore perhaps, had Anderson been playing in the 50's and 60's with exactly the same skills as he has today he would have been revered in the same way as Trueman. Also, and I'm not seriously suggesting this would be the case but just to play devil's advocate, who's to say that on today's flatter, tamer pitches Trueman wouldn't have ended up a talented nearly man a'la Steven Finn.

absolutely......it's fun thou over a drink to compare who is the best, God knows ive spent most of my social cricket career talking about it (saddo)

I did choke on my chips thou @Manormanic suggesting Jimmy would not even make an alltime England eleven  :)  I think he has slightly changed his view in later posts-top man Manor

One thing lots of us might agree on thou.....we might not reliase just how good he is until he stops playing...Broad and Anderson have been our spearheads for so long-no one else really comes close in recent times.

You could say Swann...and I for one would agree......look at what we are trying to replace Swanny with now....not much is it?

 :)
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on April 26, 2017, 08:23:47 AM
I read somewhere that Fred Trueman's pre-match warm-up was jumping up and down a couple of times in the changing rooms.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on April 26, 2017, 08:26:28 AM
Yes if  the pitch is  a 5 dayer going to spin and you bat first.

Erm, you pick your side before the toss? Ali is playing as batting all-rounder.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Manormanic on April 26, 2017, 08:39:29 AM
All time? In my view, assuming four seamers and post WW2, you have two certs - Trueman and Botham - after which you have a pool of about seven or eight contenders from whom it comes down to what you like. Anderson, Statham, Willis, Broad, Flintoff, Hoggard, Harmison, possibly Side bottom for variety.  Anderson is probably the most skillful of those, but he is also the most similar to the two certs.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: ppccopener on April 26, 2017, 08:44:30 AM
All time? In my view, assuming four seamers and post WW2, you have two certs - Trueman and Botham - after which you have a pool of about seven or eight contenders from whom it comes down to what you like. Anderson, Statham, Willis, Broad, Flintoff, Hoggard, Harmison, possibly Side bottom for variety.  Anderson is probably the most skillful of those, but he is also the most similar to the two certs.

I think Anderson is the most skilful bowler ive seen myself in an England shirt, ive sen you tube or Truman and Underwood. Underwood was one of our best but as @northernboy1987 pointed out-this is on uncovered wickets. There's no doubt his skill but wickets these days are batsman friendly

i'd be interested anyone on the forum who has seen both Fred and Jimmy

to my knowledge that is only @Seniorplayer ........ :)
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: FattusCattus on April 26, 2017, 08:47:50 AM
Wouldn't Bedser be pretty high up as one of the first names on the team sheet? Tyson was a habful too!

If you were picking 4 seamers, how about:

Botham
Flintoff
Bedser
Trueman

with Statham / Tyson in the squad?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: FattusCattus on April 26, 2017, 08:48:59 AM

Then my all-time England post WW2 lower order could be -

Botham
Flintoff
Knott
Trueman
Laker
Bedser
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Alvaro on April 26, 2017, 08:56:10 AM
I would have Deadly Derek instead of Laker, FC. And Snow instead of Flinters
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: northernboy1987 on April 26, 2017, 09:20:11 AM
For what it's worth I'd make sure I could find room for Anderson in my all time xi. I think, along with Cook, we won't realise how good he was until we're trying to find someone to take his place.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Seniorplayer on April 26, 2017, 09:39:42 AM
I think Anderson is the most skilful bowler ive seen myself in an England shirt, ive sen you tube or Truman and Underwood. Underwood was one of our best but as @northernboy1987 pointed out-this is on uncovered wickets. There's no doubt his skill but wickets these days are batsman friendly

i'd be interested anyone on the forum who has seen both Fred and Jimmy

to my knowledge that is only @Seniorplayer ........ :)

Yes seen Fred  ( saw Fred live get his 300 test wicket) and Jimmy and agree totally with yours friends comparison comments he's spot on Fred was  quicker and hit the pitch harde didn't swing it much  as for Underwood yes he got his deadly name on uncovered wickets but he could get wickets on any track  his skill was he was he  spun The ball and bowled at speed faster put every ball in the same spot and pressured the Batsman into  making a mistake he was also bitterly dispointed that he was stopped from getting 300 wickets.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: FattusCattus on April 26, 2017, 09:49:34 AM
I would have Deadly Derek instead of Laker, FC. And Snow instead of Flinters

Well actually - I'm a 2 spinners man, so seeing as I would have Compton and Boycott in my top 5 to fiddle a few over from, I would revert to -

Botham
Flintoff
Knott
Trueman
Laker
Underwood.

I like Both for the swing, Flintoff as a bouncy enforcer and Trueman as a bit of both.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Seniorplayer on April 26, 2017, 10:04:53 AM
He scored two Test hundreds in India. And one at 7 last summer. More than Vince, cook, Hales, Buttler, Ballance in the same period. But do keep the narrative going.

Ali can score runs in India but  he's cant play the new ball   Short stuff on fast  wickets
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Alvaro on April 26, 2017, 10:10:25 AM
Horlicks.

Look at his Ashes stats from 2015, do you think that the Aussies didn't bother to bounce him?

Plus, how many of the other England players can play fast stuff on quick wickets? Stokes and Bairstow comfortably. Root - probably? Otherwise, in 2013 they folded like cards.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Seniorplayer on April 26, 2017, 10:39:27 AM
Horlicks.

Gle  at his Ashes stats from 2015, do you think that the Aussies didn't bother to bounce him?

Plus, how many of the other England players can play fast stuff on quick wickets? Stokes and Bairstow comfortably. Root - probably? Otherwise, in 2013 they folded like cards.
Take your point re stats
But if Mo is still that good why was he dropped from opening nothing to do with getting out to the short stuff seem to recall watching him many times getting out trying to hook. Still believe in the UK he's at his best  batting at 8.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: FattusCattus on April 26, 2017, 10:48:56 AM
It's a gut feeling, but I just don't like the idea of Mo batting above 6 in our test side - he just seems a bit fast and loose and prone to getting out to silly shots / the short ball.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Alvaro on April 26, 2017, 11:11:17 AM
Take your point re stats
But if Mo is still that good why was he dropped from opening nothing to do with getting out to the short stuff seem to recall watching him many times getting out trying to hook. Still believe in the UK he's at his best  batting at 8.

I think the pressure of being an allrounder (and frontline spinner) meant that opening was always a short-term thing and based on getting more bowling (if that's what you call Rashid lollies down bowling) options. He's basically been treated the worst of any enduring England players in terms of role and has been shifted about to make way for people who have contributed less. In my team he would bat 7, but he is the fall guy when other areas of malaise in the England team should be looked at first imo.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: petehosk on April 26, 2017, 11:26:21 AM
In my view, I don't think that Ali should bat at 5.
My Test side would be similar to.....

Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow/Buttler
Ali
Woakes/Wood
Broad
Jimmy

As much as I think Buttler is a God when he gets going, I still prefer Bairstow in a Test side.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: northernboy1987 on April 26, 2017, 12:33:18 PM
In my view, I don't think that Ali should bat at 5.
My Test side would be similar to.....

Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow/Buttler
Ali
Woakes/Wood
Broad
Jimmy

As much as I think Buttler is a God when he gets going, I still prefer Bairstow in a Test side.

I'm pretty much with you Pete, not sure if someone else deserves a chance over Ballance this time but he's certainly in the runs, I would push for Livingstone or possibly Duckett in at 5 but might be a bit of a inexperienced top 5 with only Cook and Root over 3 caps! I can also see the logic behind leaving Mo at 5, he hasn't done anything wrong but I feel that maybe he was only batting at 5 to allow another spinner in at 8, if going forward Ali is going to be the main spinner in a 4 seam 1 spin attack then for me he bats at 8, if Ali and Rashid are going to share spin duties full time then I don't have a problem with Mo at 5 and Rash at 8.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Manormanic on April 26, 2017, 01:35:11 PM
Bairstow at five, Ali seven anyone?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: northernboy1987 on April 26, 2017, 01:42:38 PM
Bairstow at five, Ali seven anyone?

As a batsman yeah but I quite like my keeper at 7, not sure why just do haha
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Felix Tito on April 26, 2017, 02:01:35 PM
IMO the premier batsman bats at 3 therefore

Cook
Hameed
Root (c)
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Foakes (w/k)
Woakes
Broad
Ball
Anderson

Best teams have proper keepers, Bairstow isn't and never will reach the required standard. Foakes is a fabulous keeper.

Stokes for me is batting all rounder and at the most should only be bowling 8-10 overs per day. Ali is decent enough at 6 but no higher.

Jennings might've scored a 100, but he never looked assured. So he gets axed.

The less said about Ballance the better
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: six and out on April 26, 2017, 02:06:00 PM
The way i see it is that there is 1 spot to choose and it all depends how they want to make up the side.

The 10 bankers for the 1st test - Cook, Hameed, Jennings, Root, Stokes, Bairstow, Mo, Woakes, Broad & Anderson

So do they want to -

A. Play an extra batsman - a la Ballance/Livingstone etc... then they bat at either 5 or 7 depending on where Bairstow bats.
or
B. Play an extra bowler - a la Wood/Ball etc... or even a spinner (i think unlikely), then Bairstow definitely bats at 5 and the extra bowler slots in between 9-11

Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Manormanic on April 26, 2017, 03:00:01 PM
Agree on nine of the ten. I think Wood might be ahead of Woakes though, so the question is whether the latter bats eight and everyone's workload is reduced, or they prefer a batsman
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Calzehbhoy on April 26, 2017, 04:04:13 PM
I'm confused as to how people are seeing Hameed as a dead cert?

He's barely scored a run for Lancashire or the Lions since coming back from injury. Wouldn't someone like Stoneman be a safer choice?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Manormanic on April 26, 2017, 04:18:49 PM
Hameed looked the deal in India, the selectors tend to show considerable faith>
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: ppccopener on April 26, 2017, 04:27:12 PM
he has had a broken finger  :) and did look the part in India. you can only go on potential with young players unless they are a Tendulkar (playing test cricket at 16 still amazes me)

yes the selectors do give players a run now. makes it hard to get it but players like Livingstone for example-who must have been very close to one day selection-know they are going to get a run in the team.

ive got the 10 bankers most have on here, I don't have 2 spinners for home tests in the UK thou
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Johnny on April 26, 2017, 06:18:19 PM
2 spinners in England may be against convention, but if Bairstow bats 5 (which would be my preference), and Stokes is at 6 then there's plenty of room for spinner no.2

My line up would be:

Cool
Hameed
Root
Jennings
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: edge on April 26, 2017, 06:28:37 PM
Test matches = keeper bats 7 unless you don't have a decent allrounder, which we're not exactly struggling for! We know the bowling attack for home conditions, and I find it hard to believe that Cook doesn't fancy opening anymore, so assuming we're going back to normal after the usual mucking about with batting orders in the subcontinent to fit 8 bowlers in:

Cook
Hameed/Jennings
Jennings/Hameed
Root (I prefer him at 4, if he wants to bat 3 then only one of Hameed/Jennings gets in and a middle order player gets picked)
Bairstow as a specialist batsman/AN Other
Stokes
Bairstow (wk) or Buttler/Foakes
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Jimmy
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Calzehbhoy on April 26, 2017, 07:31:10 PM
I wouldn't be that surprised to see

Cook
Stoneman
Jennings/Hameed
Root
Livingstone
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Manormanic on April 26, 2017, 08:14:00 PM
I would!
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: ppccopener on April 26, 2017, 08:38:55 PM
So would I !! Livingston you would guess would come in the one dayers although the squad has been picked already.....they seem to like them being around the team first before straight into a test match.

Stoneman is a helluva player and could of been picked much earlier.but he wasn't and there's loads of players like that.

If he has got runs at Durham opening he would get runs anywhere. Good player.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: petehosk on April 26, 2017, 08:59:53 PM
I would love to see Stoneman as I genuinely think he would be better for England than Jennings (Just my opinion)
But to see Stoneman, Livingstone AND Hameed/Jennings in the top 5 of the Test team is not going to happen!
That much inexperience at International Test level would be a shock.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Alvaro on April 27, 2017, 04:17:21 PM
I expect it will be:
1. Cock 2. Hameed 3. Jennings 4. Root 5. Bairstow 6. Stokes 7. Buttler 8. Ali 9. Woakes 10. Broad 11. Anderson

Given Bairstow has been demoted to 3rd choice keeper in white ball cricket, it will be interesting to see if he or Jos get the gloves in the Test team.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: ppccopener on April 27, 2017, 04:21:18 PM
I expect it will be:
1. Cock 2. Hameed 3. Jennings 4. Root 5. Bairstow 6. Stokes 7. Buttler 8. Ali 9. Woakes 10. Broad 11. Anderson

Given Bairstow has been demoted to 3rd choice keeper in white ball cricket, it will be interesting to see if he or Jos get the gloves in the Test team.

Deliberate or accidental very amusing spelling for 1.

oh come on who is giggling?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Seniorplayer on April 27, 2017, 04:25:12 PM
Yes that's what. I think will happen  for the first  test but also think A fit Mark Wood should  replace / play if Woakes fails
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Alvaro on April 27, 2017, 04:47:03 PM
I think you may see Wood for Anderson.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Seniorplayer on April 27, 2017, 05:45:06 PM
I think you may see Wood for Anderson.

I think that will only happen if Jimmys injured as England  have no one better than Jimmy to do what he does in the Uk.
That said also heard the no Aus tour  rumour for Anderson
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Alvaro on April 28, 2017, 06:03:40 AM
That's my point.

It is said that Cook couldn't bring himself to drop his mates (like Prior), so hopefully Root may prove more ruthless.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: LcWoodward on April 28, 2017, 11:05:22 AM
I would imagine Root to be any stronger than what has come before him when it comes to swinging the axe & maybe think that the decision goes above the captains pay grade.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: it's_a_pudding on April 28, 2017, 12:57:54 PM
I think Anderson may make way for wood in Australia Woakes gives that bit extra with the bat and similar style with the ball
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: northernboy1987 on May 31, 2017, 07:43:51 AM
Well Gents, with another month of cricket watched, anyone got any more thoughts about the Test side this summer? Anyone scored enough runs/taken enough wickets to change your minds?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Calzehbhoy on May 31, 2017, 07:55:15 AM
Can Sangakkara play for England yet?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Seniorplayer on May 31, 2017, 08:35:22 AM
Well Gents, with another month of cricket watched, anyone got any more thoughts about the Test side this summer? Anyone scored enough runs/taken enough wickets to change your minds?

Mark Wood should play
Jimmys also a doubt due to injury
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: rickjames on May 31, 2017, 08:41:12 AM
I'm still not keen but it's really, really hard to ignore Ballance.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Mr_Orange on May 31, 2017, 09:01:18 AM
Will be hard for them to ignore Gary Ballance. Can imagine he's in the squad but not picked in the XI.

Will be interesting to see if they manage some workloads and/or give people a go (eg Roland-Jones, Stoneman) against the West Indies later on. I can see them putting a full strength team out against SA in the tests but there's a lot of cricket to play this summer and with the Ashes this winter they won't want anyone burning out.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: northernboy1987 on May 31, 2017, 09:23:15 AM
I'm still not keen but it's really, really hard to ignore Ballance.

That's what I was thinking. He's done it at the top level before, maybe this is what he needed to get back to it? Big difference flaying county trundlers to taking on Rabada, Morkel and Philander mind.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: jamielsn15 on May 31, 2017, 10:14:10 AM
I'm not sure about Ballance, but I'm less sure about Jennings. He will be picked though, my guess at 3, probably Ballance at 5 with Moeen back at 8.

Re Anderson i guess it depends how he comes back from his injury. If his summer is fine after that, he'll tour Australia. If not, he won't and its nearly a whole new dawn. Just Broad left of the older Ashes winning teams. Cook has years left, so he doesn't count...
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: alexhilly1492 on May 31, 2017, 10:17:05 AM
cook
hammeed
jennings
root
bairstow
stokes
buttler
ali
woakes
broad
anderson

is what id assume itll be following on from india
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: FattusCattus on May 31, 2017, 10:31:54 AM
As much as Hameed is lauded - is it his time yet? Maybe there are a couple of other top order bods who are in a bit more form?  Stoneman, Borthwick, Bell-Drummond and I think one of the Yorkies is going well?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: alexhilly1492 on May 31, 2017, 10:34:22 AM
id like to see stoneman given a go, he's in form and playing well and at a test ground in Div 1.

but i think itll be hammeed who gets the place
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: FattusCattus on May 31, 2017, 10:39:49 AM
Ballance, Westley, Robson and Eskinazi all seem to have scored a few too.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: alexhilly1492 on May 31, 2017, 10:51:18 AM
what about Dan Lawrence? averaging 65.17 with a high of 141*

could he come in at 5 everyone shuffles up one so jennings opens given hameed apparent lack of form
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: rickjames on May 31, 2017, 11:04:07 AM
From watching Stoneman so far he's been great for us, proper aggressive batsman. They'll still stick with Hameed, mind.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: LcWoodward on May 31, 2017, 11:32:56 AM
I'd like to see Stoneman given a go. Fully deserved for me, seems to always score pretty heavily.
Ballance for me has had his day, His technique is ok at county level but comes unstuck against genuinely quick bowlers.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Kulli on May 31, 2017, 11:56:39 AM
Ballance, Westley, Robson and Eskinazi all seem to have scored a few too.

I went to watch a say of Middlesex vs Essex earlier this year and the aussie boys i was with were delighted at the idea of someone being called Esky Nazi, reckoned they had a good few mates who would suit that as a nickname!
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: rickjames on June 21, 2017, 01:00:58 PM
So, England Lions in action today. Stoneman with a 50 on debut. Hameed got a duck.

Can you see where I'm going with this?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: justnotcricket86 on June 21, 2017, 01:57:40 PM
Hameed has done nothing since his Test debut
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: petehosk on June 21, 2017, 02:05:18 PM
So, England Lions in action today. Stoneman with a 50 on debut. Hameed got a duck.

Can you see where I'm going with this?

It's a shame as Hameed looked quite promising but seems to be somewhat out of form this season.
He should get his chance but I am thinking along the same lines! It's another Roy scenario where he needs to concentrate on County until his form returns.
Stoneman has been mentioned often over the last few months and looks to be on very good form this season, so could be a strong option initially?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on June 21, 2017, 02:06:05 PM
Cook
Jennings
Root
Ballance
Ali
Stokes
Bairstow
Rashid
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: rickjames on June 21, 2017, 02:08:06 PM
FWIW I would anticipate Jennings at 3, Root at 4 and Ballance at 5
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on June 21, 2017, 02:08:47 PM
Let's not forget that Samit's got back to back double hundreds.  ;)
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on June 21, 2017, 02:09:31 PM
FWIW I would anticipate Jennings at 3, Root at 4 and Ballance at 5

With who opening?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: rickjames on June 21, 2017, 02:13:08 PM
If they had common sense, Stoneman. But they won't.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on June 21, 2017, 02:14:34 PM
If they had common sense, Stoneman. But they won't.

We've been here before?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: rickjames on June 21, 2017, 02:34:11 PM
He's scored 627 runs at an average of 62 this season. Don't know what else to say...
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on June 21, 2017, 02:40:04 PM
Yes, and I've seen a fair few of them. He's obviously a good player...

Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: rickjames on June 21, 2017, 02:42:14 PM
When I've watched him this season he's the perfect fit alongside Cook; aggressive, rotates the strike well etc. Only thing that goes against him is if they want a right hander instead
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on June 21, 2017, 02:44:07 PM
Or the Adam Lyth/ Sam Robson/ Nick Compton bandwagons that went before?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: petehosk on June 21, 2017, 02:51:33 PM
Surely at home, we just play the 1 spinner plus Root as part time?
We rarely play 2 spinners in Tests at home!

I would be tempted to go with
Cook
Stoneman
Jennings
Root
Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: rickjames on June 21, 2017, 02:52:11 PM
Surely at home, we just play the 1 spinner plus Root as part time?
We rarely play 2 spinners in Tests at home!

I would be tempted to go with
Cook
Stoneman
Jennings
Root
Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

We have a winner
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: tushar sehgal on June 21, 2017, 03:06:30 PM
What happened to that young kid who opened against India?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: petehosk on June 21, 2017, 03:10:46 PM
What happened to that young kid who opened against India?

Hameed? The young lad we have been talking about and saying is out of form this season? That one?  ;)
They may chance him - he is playing in the Lions against SA A side but got an 11 ball duck.
I would imagine that he would have to find some form between now and July though!!
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: LEACHY48 on June 21, 2017, 03:24:31 PM
My team would be something similar to what's already posted but I'd have Ian bell back in the side to add some experience under a new skipper and an arguably fresh faced team - he also has a brilliant average at 5 so that's where he bats for me

Cook
Jennings
Ballance
Root
Bell
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

However given the injury concerns of late the team would be for me as follows

Cook
Jennings
Ballance
Root
Bell
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Wood
Ball
Finn
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: rickjames on June 21, 2017, 03:28:14 PM
What has Bell done this season to warrant a recall? Warwickshire right up against it at the moment...
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: northernboy1987 on June 21, 2017, 03:28:21 PM
I think one good knock by HH between now and the first test and it goes something like:

Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

I don't have a problem with giving Stoneman a go if Hameed doesn't find some form in the coming weeks but Hameed impressed over the winter so if he can find some form, deserves a home summer.

But I don't have a problem with the following either:

Cook
Jennings
Ballance
Root
Ali
Stokes
Bairstow
Rashid
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

With Ali and Rash sharing spinners duties throughout the game with Ali bowling more at the start of the game and using Rashid predominantly in the 3rd/4th innings.

Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: northernboy1987 on June 21, 2017, 03:37:12 PM
What has Bell done this season to warrant a recall? Warwickshire right up against it at the moment...

If we're going down that route Trott is averaging over 50 this season ;)
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: LEACHY48 on June 21, 2017, 03:40:03 PM
What has Bell done this season to warrant a recall? Warwickshire right up against it at the moment...

Just a general feeling that you back the right horse - with 7,500 runs in international cricket it only takes one shot / one bit of luck/ whatever and he's back on top again - also I believe he has the best average at no5 of any English batsmen of recent years.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: LEACHY48 on June 21, 2017, 03:40:48 PM
If we're going down that route Trott is averaging over 50 this season ;)

Haha but trott hasn't got the mental game to play international cricket, or the desire  ;)
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on June 21, 2017, 03:48:03 PM
Surely at home, we just play the 1 spinner plus Root as part time?
We rarely play 2 spinners in Tests at home!


Because, rightly or wrongly, we've not had confidence to bat Moeen in the top six? Moeen is himself a part-time bowler, really!
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: mdg20 on June 21, 2017, 03:57:42 PM
Completely Surrey biased of course but I'd love to see:

Cook
stoneman
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Foakes
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

Foakes to keep and let Bairstow concentrate on scoring stacks of runs
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: LEACHY48 on June 21, 2017, 04:18:53 PM
Because, rightly or wrongly, we've not had confidence to bat Moeen in the top six? Moeen is himself a part-time bowler, really!

I agree in so far as he is a part timer but he is also the fastest English bowler to take 50 test wickets - can't be that part time.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on June 21, 2017, 04:25:08 PM
I agree in so far as he is a part timer but he is also the fastest English bowler to take 50 test wickets - can't be that part time.

Worth having, I agree. Alongside Rashid.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: six and out on June 21, 2017, 04:36:29 PM
For those putting Ballance in, he has a crunch game next week to see if he gets selected because even though he's scored hundreds of runs so far, i don't see how England can pick him if he can't see the pink ball in the day/night tests we are going to have.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Manormanic on June 21, 2017, 04:42:41 PM
It is the first time in a while that I think there is genuine debate - as opposed to panicked scratching around for just about any name.  As I see it, we have got seven names nailed on for the first test at present:

Cook
X
Root
X
Bairstow
Stokes
X
Ali
X
Broad
Wood

Now, the first problem to consider is the make up of the side - do they want five bowlers or, bearing in mind the number of games and players with injury histories, do they prefer six?  Then you have the question of what side the selectors would ideally like to take Down Under (which is why I have Wood as a certainty but Anderson not, and why later on I discount the idea of Ballance winning a recall at the moment)

So, you need four names - an opener and four bat, a third quick and one "moveable feast" player.

In terms of the batting options, I think England will consider Hameed (but discount him if he has not recovered his form) Stoneman (he's been scoring consistently for a long time now), Jennings and possibly James Vince, as well as two keepers who can bat in Buttler and Foakes.  Ballance will be mentioned, but I think his exclusively hang back game might count against him for another year. For the bowling options, Rashid would give them a second spinner, whereas amongst the quicks there are Woakes and Anderson, if fit, as well as Roland-Jones and Plunkett.

What would I do?

Cook
Stoneman
Root
Jennings
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Woakes
Roland-Jones
Broad
Wood

With Anderson to be rotated in if he recovers form and fitness. 
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on June 21, 2017, 04:43:04 PM
For those putting Ballance in, he has a crunch game next week to see if he gets selected because even though he's scored hundreds of runs so far, i don't see how England can pick him if he can't see the pink ball in the day/night tests we are going to have.

I'd forgotten about that. My logic was that he's been picked so often when he's out of form, that he perhaps deserves a chance when he's clearly in form.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Manormanic on June 21, 2017, 04:52:04 PM
I'd forgotten about that. My logic was that he's been picked so often when he's out of form, that he perhaps deserves a chance when he's clearly in form.

he will never be able to play day night with the pink ball, there is nothing England can do about that.  Personally, I think the big bar to Ballance being recalled - as much as he is the right choice on form for the summer ahead - is that I do not see his game as being particularly well suited to Australian pitches, and everything will be centred on getting the right team on the field come the WACA.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: six and out on June 21, 2017, 04:55:26 PM
he will never be able to play day night with the pink ball, there is nothing England can do about that.  Personally, I think the big bar to Ballance being recalled - as much as he is the right choice on form for the summer ahead - is that I do not see his game as being particularly well suited to Australian pitches, and everything will be centred on getting the right team on the field come the WACA.

The press are saying he has got some special glasses made up that he will bat in which will allow him to see the ball?

But its very trial and error.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Manormanic on June 21, 2017, 04:57:05 PM
The press are saying he has got some special glasses made up that he will bat in which will allow him to see the ball?

But its very trial and error.

Wow, thats a brave call.  Though given the state of our batting at the moment, I suspect he wants to lead from the front.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: six and out on June 21, 2017, 05:06:52 PM
Wow, thats a brave call.  Though given the state of our batting at the moment, I suspect he wants to lead from the front.

He is definitely going to play in the Yorkshire D/N game and then i suppose its see what happens.

For me unless he nails it in that game i dont think he is selectable.

I go with...

Cook
Stoneman
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Foakes (wk)
Woakes
Broad
Wood

This assumes everyone is fully fit of course!


Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Johnny on June 21, 2017, 05:31:58 PM
I like @Manormanic 's team most at the moment.

I think anyone who doesn't have YJB in their top 6 is doing him a massive disservice, and I think Root should stick at 3.

FWIW my team would be:

Cook
Hameed/Stoneman (HH literally needs one performance and he's in for me)
Root
Jennings (long term I think he'll open, but think a few years in the middle order until Cook retired is a good plan)
Bairstow (wk)
Stokes
Ali
Woakes (is he gonna be fit in time?)
Rashid/Wood (dependent on pitch)
Broad
Anderson

I think Jake Ball is ahead of TRJ in the pecking order at the mo. And I don't see Wood as a test regular. I think he'll be used periodically for conditions that suit.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: northernboy1987 on June 21, 2017, 06:06:36 PM
I like @Manormanic 's team most at the moment.

I think anyone who doesn't have YJB in their top 6 is doing him a massive disservice, and I think Root should stick at 3.

FWIW my team would be:

Cook
Hameed/Stoneman (HH literally needs one performance and he's in for me)
Root
Jennings (long term I think he'll open, but think a few years in the middle order until Cook retired is a good plan)
Bairstow (wk)
Stokes
Ali
Woakes (is he gonna be fit in time?)
Rashid/Wood (dependent on pitch)
Broad
Anderson

I think Jake Ball is ahead of TRJ in the pecking order at the mo. And I don't see Wood as a test regular. I think he'll be used periodically for conditions that suit.

I purely leave YJB at 7 because that's where I like my keeper to bat in a test side (just seems right to me for some reason) and that's where he's been scoring hatfulls of runs for us (don't change a winning team type of logic). He's clearly good enough to bat at 5 though, I don't think anyone would debate that.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: edge on June 21, 2017, 06:10:22 PM
This always confuses me whenever the England side conversation comes around... what do we need 6 bowlers for? There's only 90 overs in a test day, one of them will just end up kicking his heels at fine leg.

For me - even though it means two relative newcomers in the top 3, I'd rather Root at 4 than 3, and the keeper bats 7. So:

Cook
Hameed/Jennings/Stoneman, pick two. Unless we have a good reason to leave either Hameed or Jennings out, almost certainly those two.
See above
Root
Middle order bat. Could be Bairstow if picking another keeper, could be whoever misses out from the top 3 shootout, could be someone called up from county cricket.
Stokes
Keeper. Bairstow if keeping the gloves, if he's at 5 then Buttler or Foakes take the gloves. Buttler in possession, Foakes in great domestic form.
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Jimmy

Wood when conditions suit (Perth anyone), then various untried or unconvincing backup seamers. Interesting that the middle order choices in the Lions currently are Gubbins and Lawrence, who knows if that means they're ahead of Ballance/Northeast/Westley and the like in the pecking order should the no5 slot open up. Livingstone as well.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Johnny on June 21, 2017, 06:31:26 PM
But if 2 of those 6 bowlers bat in your top 7 anyway, then why not. Need to take 20 wickets to win the game, so give yourself as many means as possible to do it! If stokes or Ali were injured I don't think I'd look to replace with an alternative all-rounder necessarily.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on June 21, 2017, 06:48:02 PM
Buttler is not the man in possession of the gloves!
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: edge on June 21, 2017, 06:52:00 PM
But if 2 of those 6 bowlers bat in your top 7 anyway, then why not. Need to take 20 wickets to win the game, so give yourself as many means as possible to do it! If stokes or Ali were injured I don't think I'd look to replace with an alternative all-rounder necessarily.
Ali isn't a top 7 regular for England, if Stokes has played then he's mostly been at 8 recently in home conditions.

@Bats_Entertainment in possession of the no7 slot.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: edge on June 21, 2017, 10:38:58 PM
Uhoh, apparently Broad only managed to get through one over today before going off with heel pain. With Woakes out and Jimmy only just returning from injury, could England be at risk of going into the first test without all 3 of the first-choice seamers?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Woodyspin on June 22, 2017, 01:51:27 AM
Is it just me that would have loved to see Ollie Rayner given atleast 1 cap?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: FattusCattus on June 22, 2017, 08:36:26 AM
Are we assuming Wood is fit for 5 days?  Could be a massive risk and he is bound to get overbowled!!
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: play-yourself-in on June 22, 2017, 10:21:04 AM
With all the chat of players like Samit, Sam Robison, Ballance, doing well and maybe being looked at for a return I was wondering who the last player was that played a few games (for England) was dropped and then came back to be a success.  My mind is blank.  Answers on a postcard.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: joeljonno on June 22, 2017, 10:31:15 AM
With all the chat of players like Samit, Sam Robison, Ballance, doing well and maybe being looked at for a return I was wondering who the last player was that played a few games (for England) was dropped and then came back to be a success.  My mind is blank.  Answers on a postcard.

Joe Root
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on June 22, 2017, 10:46:04 AM
Jonny Bairstow, Chris Woakes...
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: rickjames on June 22, 2017, 10:58:24 AM
Foakes tonned up this morning. Not that he's going to get anywhere near YJB right now, but it's comforting to know he's on the doorstep...
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: justnotcricket86 on June 22, 2017, 11:14:04 AM
Foakes tonned up this morning. Not that he's going to get anywhere near the YJB right now, but it's comforting to know he's on the doorstep...

Farbrace spoke very highly of him when he was in the commentary box/pod during last night's T20
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on June 22, 2017, 11:21:44 AM
Foakes tonned up this morning. Not that he's going to get anywhere near the YJB right now, but it's comforting to know he's on the doorstep...

I think it is possible that Bairstow will play as a specialist batsman. If not now, then quite soon.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: rickjames on June 22, 2017, 11:34:53 AM
The impression has always been that not keeping affects Bairstow's batting and he takes it quite personally, which I guess kind of shows he cares and he works hard at it. He's definitely improved but I'd still have Foakes down as the better with regards to glovework.

Foakes seems like a fairly modest bloke anyway, just gets on with things and see how it goes.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: ppccopener on June 22, 2017, 12:14:16 PM
Foakes is quality but it might be worth remembering bairstow plays as an allrounder same as Stewart
And therefore is gold dust as we can play an extra bowler..or batsman as needed.

Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Manormanic on June 22, 2017, 12:18:30 PM
Jonny Bairstow, Chris Woakes...

Jimmy Anderson? Seems to have done alright in his second run in the side!
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on June 22, 2017, 12:26:24 PM
Foakes is quality but it might be worth remembering bairstow plays as an allrounder same as Stewart
And therefore is gold dust as we can play an extra bowler..or batsman as needed.

Foakes is also a wicketkeeper batsman.

Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Manormanic on June 22, 2017, 01:18:32 PM
Foakes is also a wicketkeeper batsman.

So do we need two?   :D

Actually, I'd say there is a difference - Bairstow is a specialist batsman who has tended to keep wicket as well.  Foakes is a specialist wicketkeeper who happens to be a pretty handy batsman to boot.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Kulli on June 22, 2017, 02:04:21 PM
Foakes is quality but it might be worth remembering bairstow plays as an allrounder same as Stewart
And therefore is gold dust as we can play an extra bowler..or batsman as needed.

He doesn't really though, not sure we'll ever see a test side pick an out and out keeper again.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Woodyspin on June 22, 2017, 02:38:04 PM
He doesn't really though, not sure we'll ever see a test side pick an out and out keeper again.

Why?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: justnotcricket86 on June 22, 2017, 03:06:46 PM
Why?

Adam Gilchrist.

That's why
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: northernboy1987 on June 22, 2017, 03:15:24 PM
Adam Gilchrist.

That's why

Yup.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Kulli on June 22, 2017, 03:22:13 PM
Why?

Rightly or wrongly 50 extra runs per game are valued above the odd dropped catch or excellent catch/stumping.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on June 22, 2017, 03:30:16 PM
So do we need two?   :D

Actually, I'd say there is a difference - Bairstow is a specialist batsman who has tended to keep wicket as well.  Foakes is a specialist wicketkeeper who happens to be a pretty handy batsman to boot.

So we get the best of each? Bairstow is a bit wasted at no.7?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on June 22, 2017, 03:32:59 PM
Maybe as more bowlers contribute with the bat, the keeper will become more of a specialist.

We've seen massive progress in fielding techniques. Perhaps keeping can be taken up a notch?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: justnotcricket86 on June 22, 2017, 03:43:26 PM
Farbrace said himself that 3 of the best fielders in the squad are Buttler, Billings and Bairstow
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on June 22, 2017, 09:18:45 PM
Surrey's reserve keeper Ollie Pope seems to be a great fielder.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: FattusCattus on June 23, 2017, 07:51:26 AM
I see Jack Leach got another humping today against Saffa A, for some reason I thought he would run through a few of them and cause quite a few problems.

Does anyone know how he has been going for Somerset this year, as it was reported on the Lions tour that he was struggling with his remodelled action?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: joeljonno on June 23, 2017, 12:47:32 PM
It's good to see that Ballance, after a load of early season runs, has got a go with the Lions (and as captain, no less).

It will be a good test against a decent line up to see whether some of his faults have been rectified.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on June 23, 2017, 01:40:52 PM
Another Lions squad announced?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Calzehbhoy on June 23, 2017, 01:51:14 PM
Another double failure for HH with the lions. With Jennings & Stoneman both getting 50s in both innings

Surely it is too much of a risk to have HH start the first test this summer now?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Mr_Orange on June 23, 2017, 01:58:44 PM
Another Lions squad announced?
This is against the full South Africa touring squad and not their A team who are also touring.

Interesting though, they clearly want to have a look at few openers with Hameed, Jennings, Stoneman, Gubbins and Robson all included in either of the squads.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on June 23, 2017, 02:37:45 PM
This is against the full South Africa touring squad and not their A team who are also touring.

Interesting though, they clearly want to have a look at few openers with Hameed, Jennings, Stoneman, Gubbins and Robson all included in either of the squads.

I've not seen. Link, please?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Mr_Orange on June 23, 2017, 03:18:30 PM
I've not seen. Link, please?
Ballance to skipper. Jennings and Robson to open

https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/422692 (https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/422692)
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: six and out on June 23, 2017, 03:28:40 PM
They really are looking at everyone aren't they.

It's good that they are though.

I do find it strange that Hameed isn't getting another go - maybe his time is up?

Stoneman and Foakes, not available as on Surrey duty in RL Cup.

Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: mattdawson on June 28, 2017, 02:49:06 PM
Appears Hameed injured again.... Butler opening the batting for lancs.

Not been his year thus far
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: northernboy1987 on June 28, 2017, 02:52:25 PM
Appears Hameed injured again.... Butler opening the batting for lancs.

Not been his year thus far

Everybody ready for the "Buttler to open with Cook" rumors? :D
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: edge on June 28, 2017, 02:52:38 PM
Ball awaiting scan results too, likelihood of a new face in the test attack gets stronger still.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: mattdawson on June 28, 2017, 02:55:16 PM
Appears Hameed injured again.... Butler opening the batting for lancs.

Not been his year thus far

maybe not.... hes come in at 3
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: northernboy1987 on June 28, 2017, 02:57:11 PM
Think the Proteas are sweating yet watching Cook pile up the runs? :D
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: edge on June 28, 2017, 02:59:56 PM
maybe not.... hes come in at 3
Split webbing I think, odd that he dropped down one spot though.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: alexhilly1492 on June 28, 2017, 06:00:09 PM
Nick Browne and ali cook to open for England?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: ppccopener on June 28, 2017, 06:38:13 PM
Wonder how many of us have Hameed in the first test. Tricky one this one, presuming he is fit, looks the part technically and temperament, highly rated by all the respected journos, commentators....

No form whatsoever so far this season...

England want to back him long term, but is it fair going into a test series with no form at all?

Personally I find this very difficult, thankfully I'm not a selector, but from what I see this lad is the real deal and long term replacement for Cook.

Some of the Somerset fans may remember Mark Lathwall....

I'm not saying these two players are the same but highly rated and a genuine test player are not the same things.

If I was picking the team I think I would let him get runs for lancs, someone else gets a chance thou to claim a place

 :)
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Seniorplayer on June 28, 2017, 07:42:44 PM
First test Woakes and  Stokes doubtful Broad has a heel problem  and  has had a scan. Jimmys fit and firing.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: ppccopener on June 28, 2017, 07:49:04 PM
First test Woakes and  Stokes doubtful Broad has a heel problem  and  has had a scan. Jimmys fit and firing.

Ah...but you know what that will mean.... And for a lot of us fans worried he won't last...

Wood in, genuine pace. Probably the quickest bowler we have had in the test arena since Harmison was at his peak
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Seniorplayer on June 28, 2017, 08:17:21 PM
Ah...but you know what that will mean.... And for a lot of us fans worried he won't last...

Wood in, genuine pace. Probably the quickest bowler we have had in the test arena since Harmison was at his peak

 Mark Wood even though injury prone always gives 100 percent and can win you matches.
Yes of course Jimmy could break down but Also think if they thought Jimmy wasn't fit enough for  the full five days they wouldn't risk him
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: FattusCattus on June 29, 2017, 07:43:09 AM
Ball has had a scan too.

Could go with a bowling line up of - Ali, TRJ, T Currant, Wood, Anderson.

.....and no Finn.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: LcWoodward on June 29, 2017, 07:58:02 AM
Would you not look at the other Curran as well as a possible replacement for Woakes?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: FattusCattus on June 29, 2017, 08:27:09 AM
I'm sure I've heard somewhere that at Test standard his pace may be a little low and not enough to trouble Test batsmen.

Of course Plunko should do a decent fill in job and shouldn't be forgotten. Other names with wickets to them, but virtual unknowns are - Coad, Leach, Porter and Luke Fletcher.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: edge on June 29, 2017, 09:02:05 AM
Ball confirmed out for two weeks, including the first test. Sam Curran not ready yet? Plus no real need for an allrounder to replace Woakes when he'd probablly be batting 9 anyway.

Assuming Wood and Anderson, that leaves one seam spot to fill. TRJ/Tom Curran/Plunkett/Overtons/Helm probably frontrunners given recent selections and Lions squads? Be a good time for someone to take a few poles for the Lions wouldn't it.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Seniorplayer on June 29, 2017, 09:14:36 AM
Plunketts a good call can  also do a decent job with the bat at 9.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: northernboy1987 on June 29, 2017, 09:22:54 AM
Waiting for someone to chime in saying Strauss will probably insist on Plunkett just to wind Yorkshire up  ;)
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: six and out on June 29, 2017, 10:56:50 AM
The bowling selection is looking as tricky as the batting now!

Now there is no Woakes, Ball and possibly no Broad.

With Stokes managing his knee injury, Anderson only 2 games back after injury and Wood who's injury record is hardly the most reliable.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: FattusCattus on June 29, 2017, 11:16:10 AM
Just out of interest, does anyone know much about George Garton?  He seems to be much in favour, and has got the 'left-armers' gig in the lions?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: edge on June 29, 2017, 11:17:43 AM
Just out of interest, does anyone know much about George Garton?  He seems to be much in favour, and has got the 'left-armers' gig in the lions?
Very little, but he has been talked up quite heavily! This is apparently him aged 18 on first class debut, doesn't look too shabby... https://vine.co/v/iTHplj0ubFT
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Woodyspin on June 29, 2017, 12:43:34 PM
Very little, but he has been talked up quite heavily! This is apparently him aged 18 on first class debut, doesn't look too shabby... https://vine.co/v/iTHplj0ubFT

Nit a terrible bowler and still only just 20, bowls well in the t20 and has decent pace, just dont think he's consistant enough with wicket taking nor patient deliveries in 4 day yet

Think he plays at three bridges which isnt far from me
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: golders on June 29, 2017, 12:48:08 PM
I quite like Mark Footitt of Surrey,who was talked about a while back. seems like he is out of the reckoning as not involved in any Lions squads,perhaps his age is the barrier?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Mr_Orange on June 29, 2017, 12:55:00 PM
Just out of interest, does anyone know much about George Garton?  He seems to be much in favour, and has got the 'left-armers' gig in the lions?

Only through his Cricinfo page which has some lovely images of him mid-flight while following through (take that as you please...)

There must be a caption contest in here somewhere...

(http://p.imgci.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/262300/262370.jpg) (http://p.imgci.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/240300/240345.jpg)
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: FattusCattus on June 29, 2017, 02:37:39 PM
He looks like a human Fidget-Spinner!
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Manormanic on June 29, 2017, 06:55:35 PM
Waiting for someone to chime in saying Strauss will probably insist on Plunkett just to wind Yorkshire up  ;)

Why would it wind us up? He's third reserve for us at the minute...
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on June 29, 2017, 07:22:05 PM
Jamie Porter.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: northernboy1987 on June 29, 2017, 08:43:24 PM
Why would it wind us up? He's third reserve for us at the minute...

Just pulling legs mate.

 Telegraph reporting that Malan may be considered for selection, what do we think?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Seniorplayer on June 29, 2017, 08:59:13 PM
Just pulling legs mate.

 Telegraph reporting that Malan may be considered for selection, what do we think?

After watching him in the ODI he's worth a call up but are England looking to build a young team around Joe.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Manormanic on June 30, 2017, 03:39:39 AM
Just pulling legs mate.

 Telegraph reporting that Malan may be considered for selection, what do we think?

Possibly - looked born to it the other day.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: northernboy1987 on June 30, 2017, 07:24:09 AM
After watching him in the ODI he's worth a call up but are England looking to build a young team around Joe.

He was great in the T20 but I thought England would see him as more of a white ball cricketer, his FC record is good without being remarkable but as you say, perhaps they would rather bring in someone a couple of years younger, that being said I'd have no problem with giving him a go at 4/5 in the Test side. He can obviously handle pressure situations, to come out and play as he did on international debut was impressive, obviously Test cricket is a completely different beast but it showed he's got the confidence in his game, remains to be seen if he's got the technical chops to match because facing the likes of Morkel and Rabada fired up with a red ball is a totally different challenge.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: six and out on June 30, 2017, 08:08:30 AM
This is Bayliss talking to BBC Sport -

Broad should be fit - doesn't rule Hameed or Ballance out - says there will be "heavy discussion" between the selectors today.

I think most of all he said this, saying selection could depend on where Root bats -

"I'd like to see the best player in the team bat at number three.

"Three or four, there's not a huge difference in it, although if your best player bats at number three he can set the tone and set things right earlier if we lose an early one or two.

"That will be Joe's call. He's the captain, he'll set the batting order."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40448464 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40448464)

Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: northernboy1987 on June 30, 2017, 08:23:06 AM
This is Bayliss talking to BBC Sport -

Broad should be fit - doesn't rule Hameed or Ballance out - says there will be "heavy discussion" between the selectors today.

I think most of all he said this, saying selection could depend on where Root bats -

"I'd like to see the best player in the team bat at number three.

"Three or four, there's not a huge difference in it, although if your best player bats at number three he can set the tone and set things right earlier if we lose an early one or two.

"That will be Joe's call. He's the captain, he'll set the batting order."

[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40448464[/url] ([url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40448464[/url])


Sounds like Bayliss thinks Hameed should open doesn't it. I think a lot of the other selection relies on where they bat Ali, if they feel he's only good enough to bat top 5 on the sub continent then he'll be back down to 8 and they need another batsman in if they think he's deserved a run at 5 after a good performance on the India tour then perhaps Rashid or a seamer who can hold a bat (Plunkett/TRJ?) comes in at 8.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Seniorplayer on June 30, 2017, 08:30:08 AM
This is Bayliss talking to BBC Sport -

Broad should be fit - doesn't rule Hameed or Ballance out - says there will be "heavy discussion" between the selectors today.

I think most of all he said this, saying selection could depend on where Root bats -

"I'd like to see the best player in the team bat at number three.

"Three or four, there's not a huge difference in it, although if your best player bats at number three he can set the tone and set things right earlier if we lose an early one or two.

"That will be Joe's call. He's the captain, he'll set the batting order."

[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40448464[/url] ([url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40448464[/url])

Your best bat should always be at three but you don't want him facing the new ball to soon.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Calzehbhoy on June 30, 2017, 08:34:22 AM
For me your most technically correct bat, bats at 3 and your best bat bats at 4.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: six and out on June 30, 2017, 08:39:59 AM
there are so many questions for Root's 1st team.... i would love to be a fly on the wall in that selection meeting!

i think Ali will go back to 8 as they like the cover of him down the order in English conditions - plus i would be surprised if we play 2 spinners

i think Bayliss is right because if Root wants to bat at 3 then it only leaves the openers slot for Hameed/Jennings/Stoneman and number 4 and possibly 5 open up - so you are then looking for a different type of batter. If Root bats at 4 then they the same 3 are going for 2 spots because there isn't much difference between opening and 3.

For me - In England your best bat goes in at 4 - it is to risky exposing him at 3
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: northernboy1987 on June 30, 2017, 08:41:11 AM
For me your most technically correct bat, bats at 3 and your best bat bats at 4.

I'm a bit like that, I like a bit of a grafter (not necessarily best technique) at 3 then your best at 4, like Trott and KP did a few years back.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on June 30, 2017, 08:44:26 AM
Trott had a fine technique.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on June 30, 2017, 08:45:22 AM
For me your most technically correct bat, bats at 3 and your best bat bats at 4.

And that is never the same person?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on June 30, 2017, 08:46:19 AM
Nonsense club cricket talk.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: six and out on June 30, 2017, 08:48:27 AM
I'm a bit like that, I like a bit of a grafter (not necessarily best technique) at 3 then your best at 4, like Trott and KP did a few years back.

i was just thinking of the Trott and KP example of good 3 and 4's

Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: northernboy1987 on June 30, 2017, 08:50:39 AM
Trott had a fine technique.

At what point did anyone say he didn't?
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Calzehbhoy on June 30, 2017, 08:54:40 AM
And that is never the same person?

If you can name me some examples of when this has been the case I'm all ears.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: northernboy1987 on June 30, 2017, 08:57:37 AM
Nonsense club cricket talk.

To be honest if you were expecting anything else on a forum full of club cricketers then you may be disappointed.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Seniorplayer on June 30, 2017, 08:59:49 AM
For me your most technically correct bat, bats at 3 and your best bat bats at 4.

It's a good point but wouldn't your technically correct players be your openers  giving you 3 opening batsman at 1 2 3 ideal if one gets out early against the new ball.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: six and out on June 30, 2017, 09:00:33 AM
To be honest if you were expecting anything else on a forum full of club cricketers then you may be disappointed.

 :D :D :D
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Seniorplayer on June 30, 2017, 09:02:28 AM
Nonsense club cricket talk.

Not if you listen to the ex pro commentators
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: six and out on June 30, 2017, 09:04:37 AM
It's a good point but wouldn't your technically correct players be your openers  giving you 3 opening batsman at 1 2 3 ideal if one gets out early against the new ball.

I think in recent times we have seen that 1 opener doesn't need to be technically perfect if they are aggressive making a good opening partnership to compliment each other. Eg. Warner and Rogers and to a certain extent Strauss and Cook.

Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: northernboy1987 on June 30, 2017, 09:12:44 AM
I think in recent times we have seen that 1 opener doesn't need to be technically perfect if they are aggressive making a good opening partnership to compliment each other. Eg. Warner and Rogers and to a certain extent Strauss and Cook.

I think that technique and tenacity/mental application (highly desirable in a test opener imo) are two different things though, Cook doesn't have the world's greatest technique for example but he is unbelievably tenacious and focused.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on June 30, 2017, 09:15:28 AM
If you can name me some examples of when this has been the case I'm all ears.

Joe Root is the best batsman and has the best technique. Technique is not just for show. It is the means by which you become a better batsman.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on June 30, 2017, 09:27:30 AM
I am disappointed.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Biggie Smalls on June 30, 2017, 10:24:48 AM
At what point did anyone say he didn't?


About 2013/14 .
Not having a go , i really liked him , and he was a very good bat . I also felt for him during that tour and since . But , when you bat at 3 against 150kmph short stuff , perhaps walking towards the bowler as far he did , as your trigger movement , could be described as poor technique.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: ScottParko on June 30, 2017, 10:36:29 PM
TMS reckoning Ballance and Dawson in the squad, TRJ likely to be in the first 11.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: rickjames on June 30, 2017, 10:51:32 PM
No Stoneman no party. Looks like we're going to have a lovely long tail throughout the summer. Taps aff for Gazza though.

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/07/16/1405532328525_wps_8_Gary_Ballance_is_pictured.jpg)
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: ppccopener on July 01, 2017, 06:19:40 AM
Yep Gaz  back in at 3....Root back to his favourite no 4 spot maybe the Guardian says.

Captains pick or fully deserved recall?

He has certainly got a lot in the championship this year
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Buzz on July 01, 2017, 06:47:48 AM
Team for first test

Cook
Jennings
Ballance (earned his recall but I wouldn't pick him personally)
Roooooooot
Bairstow
Stokes
Moeen
Dawson
Broad
Anderson
Wood

Personally I would have picked Westley over Balance.
The problem is that all the quicks have injury issues which isn't ideal. Toby Roland jones in the squad as well.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: rickjames on July 01, 2017, 08:21:17 AM
Whilst I've no issue with him at 5, Ballance at 3 is a going to be painful to watch. Don't see why Dawson is there either, unless they're actually serious about having Moeen as a batsman and keeping him up the order for once.

Still baffled how Stoneman hasn't been selected, it just doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: golders on July 01, 2017, 08:21:50 AM
Somewhat conservative selection I feel,especially ib the spin bowling department.

Liam Dawson first class bowling stats:

MAT   Inns   Balls   Runs   Wkts
125   144   10853   5567   151
 
BBI           BBM   Ave          Econ   SR
7/51   8/129   36.86   3.07   71.8
 
4w   5w   10       
4   3   0   

Moeeeen:


MAT   Inns   Balls   Runs   Wkts
165      18128   10808   258
 
BBI           BBM.       Ave.    Econ   SR
6/29   12/96   41.89   3.57   70.2
 
4w   5w   10       
6   7   1
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: northernboy1987 on July 01, 2017, 08:57:32 AM
I know some may disagree but I'm glad to see Gazza Ballance back, I'm not sure why Dawson is there over Rashid though, how many times do they need to knock that lads confidence when it's clear from his paat performances in ODI and some of his recent Test matches that he is ten times better when he feels he has the backing of his skipper etc. England will never get the best out of him.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: six and out on July 01, 2017, 08:59:05 AM
As much as this will annoy the Yorkies on here.

Ballance has been selected because he is Roots mate. Simples.

Dawson is in because Woakes isn't fit and Baylis prefers an allrounder at 8 with batting callibre.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Seniorplayer on July 01, 2017, 09:04:58 AM
Balance at three could be a master stroke if England lose an opener early on.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: ppccopener on July 01, 2017, 09:15:22 AM
As much as this will annoy the Yorkies on here.

Ballance has been selected because he is Roots mate. Simples.

Dawson is in because Woakes isn't fit and Baylis prefers an allrounder at 8 with batting callibre.


He's a mate with benefits, Gaz is averaging  98 in the four day game.thats a good argument?

I quite like him as a player, he is mentally tough, yes lots of debate on here (we are the centre of the cricket world after all!) about technical faults but pretty much every batsman has them to some degree.

It's runs in the book that count whatever level you play at and he's got them.

Probably would not of played had Hameed Ben in form thou, fair to say that.

Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Shinpathy on July 01, 2017, 10:11:07 AM
Hameed been worked out with the short ball or what?

After effects of his finger injury?  :o
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on July 01, 2017, 11:48:22 AM
I suspect Ballance may bat at 4.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: six and out on July 01, 2017, 12:08:11 PM
He's a mate with benefits, Gaz is averaging  98 in the four day game.thats a good argument?

I quite like him as a player, he is mentally tough, yes lots of debate on here (we are the centre of the cricket world after all!) about technical faults but pretty much every batsman has them to some degree.

It's runs in the book that count whatever level you play at and he's got them.

Probably would not of played had Hameed Ben in form thou, fair to say that.

He may be averaging loads but we have seen it before a number of times (including with Ballance) Championship runs don't equal Test runs.

Hes been picked now so lets see what number he bats and how he goes.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: play-yourself-in on July 01, 2017, 01:46:41 PM
Living in the USA for the last 18 months has developed my love of a conspiracie theory.  Seems to me that Ballance has been included so that New Balance can slowly start to take over the England team!!!!!!

Plunkett will be in by the next test, mark my words!

;)
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: rickjames on July 01, 2017, 02:08:45 PM
I wonder if Bayliss watched Stoneman today. Ah.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Biggie Smalls on July 01, 2017, 02:27:31 PM
Living in the USA for the last 18 months has developed my love of a conspiracie theory.  Seems to me that Ballance has been included so that New Balance can slowly start to take over the England team!!!!!!

Plunkett will be in by the next test, mark my words!

;)


Yep , i think i heard alex jones mention that on info wars the other day..... 'new balance new world order'  is under way !  :D ;)
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Alvaro on July 01, 2017, 09:08:20 PM
Rashid is a bottler.

This is also the dreariest brave new era selection going. It's not going to much of a watch.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: ppccopener on July 01, 2017, 09:30:56 PM
I'm not on a one man mission to promote Gary and his new balance kit (I don't like the stickers myself)  :) but if there is one spot in the batting.....hameed  out and prob right you can't pick him in the form he is in ....although long term I think he is the answer at 1 or 3......but Ballance has test runs behind him,he happens to have scored heavy in the championship. It's not guarantee of runs in the test quite right but he has scored previously pretty well.

The point I am trying to make is there is one spot, who would you pick? There are lots of players who could be picked but have they done enough? Westley, northeast, bell drummond(never gets much of a mention on here), Stoneman has been a bit u lucky not to be capped so far.....Sam Robson of Middlesex?

Be interesting to see if others think there is another stand out candidate because I can't think of one banging the door down to get in....

Stand to be corrected thou..as usual !  :)
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: six and out on July 02, 2017, 07:25:23 AM
I'm not on a one man mission to promote Gary and his new balance kit (I don't like the stickers myself)  :) but if there is one spot in the batting.....hameed  out and prob right you can't pick him in the form he is in ....although long term I think he is the answer at 1 or 3......but Ballance has test runs behind him,he happens to have scored heavy in the championship. It's not guarantee of runs in the test quite right but he has scored previously pretty well.

The point I am trying to make is there is one spot, who would you pick? There are lots of players who could be picked but have they done enough? Westley, northeast, bell drummond(never gets much of a mention on here), Stoneman has been a bit u lucky not to be capped so far.....Sam Robson of Middlesex?

Be interesting to see if others think there is another stand out candidate because I can't think of one banging the door down to get in....

Stand to be corrected thou..as usual !  :)

You say 1 spot available. I would think there should be 2. But it completely depends how Root wants to balance the side. We are going into the 1st Test with an extra bowler be it Dawson or TRJ due to injury concerns over others. Do we really need 6 bowlers plus Root? I wouldn't think so when everyone is fully fit.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Buzz on July 02, 2017, 07:53:59 AM
You say 1 spot available. I would think there should be 2. But it completely depends how Root wants to balance the side. We are going into the 1st Test with an extra bowler be it Dawson or TRJ due to injury concerns over others. Do we really need 6 bowlers plus Root? I wouldn't think so when everyone is fully fit.
This is right in my view.
All these bowlers are being picked because of the injury concerns to the current bowlers. Especially for Lords which in recent years has been a graveyard for bowlers.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Buzz on July 05, 2017, 09:27:40 PM
Team for first test

Cook
Jennings
Ballance (earned his recall but I wouldn't pick him personally)
Roooooooot
Bairstow
Stokes
Moeen
Dawson
Broad
Anderson
Wood

Personally I would have picked Westley over Balance.
The problem is that all the quicks have injury issues which isn't ideal. Toby Roland jones in the squad as well.
Cough...
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Biggie Smalls on July 06, 2017, 07:37:58 AM
Thank god i finally get to watch some test cricket...... better lap it up while i can because at this rate i might not get to witness a home ashes series this summer .
Anyway , looking forward to this match , not so keen on some of the ecb selections though .
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: LcWoodward on July 06, 2017, 07:44:01 AM
Don't really get the inclusion of Dawson when Ali and Root could provide adequate spin options
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Kulli on July 06, 2017, 07:54:03 AM
Don't really get the inclusion of Dawson when Ali and Root could provide adequate spin options

I don't really either, but i guess he gives another pretty strong batting option and that they hope he will provide a bit more control than Ali or Rashid. he's also a good fielder which Baylis seems to set quite a lot of weight on.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: LcWoodward on July 06, 2017, 08:22:57 AM
Yeah & I really hope he suprises us all. Just seems a touch out of the blue and really conservative for me.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Manormanic on July 06, 2017, 08:24:25 AM
I wonder to what extent Dawson has been picked as the holding spinner a la Ashley Piles and Ali has been picked int he role Jos Buttler was given of attacking or counter attacking number seven batsman...
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: LcWoodward on July 06, 2017, 08:26:40 AM
Ali will always score his runs at a decent click I think. So it will be interesting to see what pans out, Only thing is you've got the potential for that mid-low order to be blown away.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Kulli on July 06, 2017, 09:41:54 AM
Ali will always score his runs at a decent click I think. So it will be interesting to see what pans out, Only thing is you've got the potential for that mid-low order to be blown away.

Dawson also serves to strengthen that doesn't he, opened the batting in FC for a season or so IIRC.
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: LcWoodward on July 06, 2017, 09:43:56 AM
Dawson also serves to strengthen that doesn't he, opened the batting in FC for a season or so IIRC.

Suppose so.....It just a case of wait and see I think. No one really knows how people will perform. I hope it works and we can find that right balance
Title: Re: 2017 England Test Side
Post by: Kulli on July 06, 2017, 10:05:28 AM
I guess basically they fancy his as the spinner more then Ali or Rashid but that Ali is worth his spot as a batter/backup spinner after the winter he had.