Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Players => Topic started by: quick-keep on February 15, 2010, 12:51:35 PM
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Who should wear the gloves for england?
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Kieswetter is making some good scores in one day cricket, doing well for the lions, he'll have the gloves at some point in the not to distant future in my opinion.
There's a lot of love for fozza though - great player as well, how old is he?
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Foster best Keeper, Kieswetter best all round option.
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Old enough to be a senior player, lots of expierience as well, vice captain of his county. Prior has turned into an average international keeper but while doing so his batting has slipped. Davies is kind of over rated imo and I put Ambrose in there for the fun of it :D Fozz for me though.
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1) James Foster = simply not good enough with the bat
2) Steven Davies = Not been given the chance yet to show ability on the International stage
3) Craig Kieswetter = Up and coming promising cricketer with a big future
4) Matt Prior = vastly improved with the gloves and a good batsmen and worth his place
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prior has done nothing to be dropped , but in my opinion , it should be james foster ! in ODI's i wouldent mind seeing kieswetter given a go !
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Or: Foster-Tests, Prior-t20 and Kieswetter-odi?
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ye mate i agree , not sure england would have 3 different keepers though..
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They should have tried it for the Bangladesh tour.
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Prior tests, Foster/Davies/Kieswetter odis and T20s (Foster would be my pick).
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yeah , if prior ever gets dropped i would love to see foster given a go in the tests , but prior has done nothing to be dropped so i think prior in tests tbh..
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Foster ain't good enough at international level with the bat !!!
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since when?? a few years ago when he was given a chance? he has improved masses since then.
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Does he need to be amazing in Odi cricket? How many big scores has prior got recently in the shorter formats?
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Foster is like a fish out of water and has been given a chance but didn't take it and has now slipped down the pecking order behind Kieswetter etc etc. A few runs in county cricket as hardly improvement which what is needed at the highest level a very good keeper who simply ain't good enough with the bat in the way England now pick keepers.
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Tbh i would rather have a keeper that knows how to catch than one who can bat
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foster can do both :) watsontotty you couldent be more wrong in my opinion...since foster was dropped he has improved ALOT , as he you can see from his stat's in county cricket.
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Simply not how England select there keepers is it ? they pick batsmen who can make runs and do a job behind the stumps and a Prior is doing a decent job. If it aint broken don't fix it but looks like kieswetter will be next in line and pretty impressive the other day.
Strokeplayer its as you said COUNTY CRICKET not INTERNATIONAL CRICKET a big difference to say the least.
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see there your correct fella - as i stated earlier prior has done nothing to be dropped so they should stick with him , yeah kiesweeter is next in line and yes he done very well the other day , but im not sure if i could see kieswetter scoring runs in test cricket..especially if he has to knuckle down..but others may think im wrong and that's fair enough.
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Foster is like jack russell!
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I'm putting my neck on the line but im going to say that Kieswetter will be the next Gilly - watched him play a couple 20/20's and other matches and there is something special about him, he's got the SAF Factor!!
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The thing is though, he may no get the chance! The selectors seem to think that prior can do no wrong! They will wait until it is to late, Boucher will have retired and before they know it he will be back in SA!
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prior is bound to get injured...
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Has to Kieswetter for me, seen him in action at Tauton and he is unstoppable, him and Trego at Glous in the T20 last year, Awesome
Anyone think their is a place in the team for Trego, to do the job Dimi (can't spell surname!) has failed to do recently
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Kieswetter, and sooner rather than later... look at aamer and akmal, 17 and 19 respectively, get some youth up in the england team with no fear, no limits!
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Tresco, Kieswetter, Pollard, White, Trego...........not a bad little batting line-up for the 20/20's! Sabres year this year!
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Dimi Masteranus needs some serious one day form for england! Even more so now Fred is out. Trego hs got a chance. Kieswetter was immense last season, Foster also proved to be quite dominant with the bat for essex in all forms, while still being top notch with the gloves!
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Tresco, Kieswetter, Pollard, White, Trego...........not a bad little batting line-up for the 20/20's! Sabres year this year!
When my wages come through I will probs invest in a T20 membership,
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Whats the need to change the England keeper? We've just returned from a 1-1 series against SA!
Prior's glovework has improved significantly and his batting is just as good.
Davies looks like one for the future but havent really seen much of Kieswetter to comment.
Foster i'm afraid just hasnt got the batting record to be included in international cricket. As much as i would like to see him return (as an essex supporter) to the england team, it just isnt going to happen. Predicting big runs from prior in Bangladesh!
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yeah 1-1 against SA , but realisticly , we should of been beaten 3-1 !
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i put prior in the same class as bell, normally bottles it under pressure, good county player but not got that x factor you need for test match cricket... i think that kieswetter has
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we should atleast try a new keeper for the future against bangladesh -
oh btw simon , did u get my stuff sent off fella ?
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why a new keeper?
Prior has been a consistent performer and has been no more inconsistent than the other batsman; he played really well in the Ashes.
He deserves the chance to play in Bangladesh; Keiswetter looked out of his depth in the Champions League with the bat.
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why a new keeper?
Prior has been a consistent performer and has been no more inconsistent than the other batsman; he played really well in the Ashes.
He deserves the chance to play in Bangladesh; Keiswetter looked out of his depth in the Champions League with the bat.
The champions league isn't international cricket is it? It is pro club cricket.
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but he was facing international standard bowlers. not kolpak medium pacers on a Taunton shirt front.
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Kieswetter is way over hyped. I mean he plays on the flattest wicket in England and his stats are boosted by this. I bet if Davies, Foster etc batted there, they would average 40 in First Class cricket as well.
Steven Davies should defiantly be next in line. Very good batsman and good with the gloves as well. And, most importantly, he's English.
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jeet , why should it matter what county they were born? aslong as they are eligible to play for england that's all that matters , but youve got a very valid point regarding davies!
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By any chance is there a lot of West country chaps on here!
I havent seen enough of Keeswetter to pass comment, but Foster has the best hands!
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jeet , why should it matter what county they were born? aslong as they are eligible to play for england that's all that matters , but youve got a very valid point regarding davies!
If there's a good home grown player available, then why choose an overseas player over him? It would destroy the home grown player's confidence.
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Never mind his confidence, it would destroy english cricket if we keep picking overseas players all the time!
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i 100% understand what you guys are saying , but surely it comes down to talent ?? when picking the ashes sqaud i dont think they will be sitting there saying ' right we will pick him over him because he is english ' , i may be wrong..
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I agree about the Kieswetter fact about him batting at Taunton, wonder what his stats ate home and away in fc cricket compared to prior, davies and foster.
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i 100% understand what you guys are saying , but surely it comes down to talent ?? when picking the ashes sqaud i dont think they will be sitting there saying ' right we will pick him over him because he is english ' , i may be wrong..
I would hope thats the first thing they make sure of- that he is english and qualified to play for us! I agree, it goes on talent, but I just think it wrong that a guy is born and raised a saffa then represents us.
Look at the Pattinson selection last year- are you telling me the fact he was an Aussie didnt come in to it when they selected him from nowhere?
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i 100% understand what you guys are saying , but surely it comes down to talent ?? when picking the ashes sqaud i dont think they will be sitting there saying ' right we will pick him over him because he is english ' , i may be wrong..
Well Steven Davies is hardly a mug with the bat. He played in an ordinary Worcestershire side and still averages 37.
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I would hope thats the first thing they make sure of- that he is english and qualified to play for us! I agree, it goes on talent, but I just think it wrong that a guy is born and raised a saffa then represents us.
Look at the Pattinson selection last year- are you telling me the fact he was an Aussie didnt come in to it when they selected him from nowhere?
yeah if he is qualified....but if they was to pick kieswetter , he is eligible but not english..
and jeet i agree fella , davies is no mug with the bat ! i just think there are others with more talent , but as i always say - its a matter of opinion.
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Chris Read. Say no more...
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Prior, is to inconsistent with the bat and not a good enough batsmen to be honest. And in my opinion it doesnt really matter how good a keeper he is, because they will all be good enough keepers because if they weren't they wouldnt have made it this far, its specifically down to the batting qualities, and Kieswetter is the best, even though he is not english a long with most of the team, which i do not feel is right. But we do need another batsmen, because if im honest we lack someone with real quality someone we can depend on like a ponting, smith, tendulkar/sehwag
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Chris Read. Say no more...
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Sorry but we need a keeper that can bat!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6gPMq9qOTM
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that video is atleast 5 years old am sure he has improved since then !!! dont ya rekon
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1. Prior - has done nothing wrong
2. Kieswetter - he's very good and should be given a chance soon
3. Foster - best gloveman and not too bad with the bat, hasn't got time on his side
4. Davies - good batsman, not a bad keeper
5. Ambrose - decent batsman but possibly worst keeper out of the 5
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Prior, is to inconsistent with the bat and not a good enough batsmen to be honest. And in my opinion it doesnt really matter how good a keeper he is, because they will all be good enough keepers because if they weren't they wouldnt have made it this far, its specifically down to the batting qualities
which England batsman, strauss aside this last year, can be described as consistent? cook and bell have just saved their careers after long droughts, no hundreds for colly in a fair while and kp's been injured. prior catches, byes have reduced and he averages 38/9. batting keepers are hard to find, we have one with real potential and a fair bit of experience now. prior could be compared to boucher in the way he is starting out - two or three years down the line he could be indispensible like mark b.
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without a doubt prior i have had my concern regarding his keeping but he is improving
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which England batsman, strauss aside this last year, can be described as consistent? cook and bell have just saved their careers after long droughts, no hundreds for colly in a fair while and kp's been injured. prior catches, byes have reduced and he averages 38/9. batting keepers are hard to find, we have one with real potential and a fair bit of experience now. prior could be compared to boucher in the way he is starting out - two or three years down the line he could be indispensible like mark b.
Alvaro - Prior is not, and never will be, in Boucher's league as a gloveman.
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Prior will never be as reliable as boucher with the gloves and bat.
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Alvaro - Prior is not, and never will be, in Boucher's league as a gloveman.
I didn't claim that - though Boucher was not the most reliable keeper when he started. My point was more that he could become the heartbeat of the team with experience and nous, which would be beneficial for England, and score runs.
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prior isn't even english, so lets see would prior replace boucher in the SA side, no, so he isnt as good
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at no point did i say prior was better than boucher, i just used him as an example of what perseverance can result in.
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If we're talking test matches, most definitely NOT Kieswetter.
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prior isn't even english, so lets see would prior replace boucher in the SA side, no, so he isnt as good
Such a poor statement to make. Prior was born in SA, I don't think he'd appreciate being called South African though.
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Did anyone see the England Lions are playing both Kieswetter AND Davies at the moment?
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Such a poor statement to make. Prior was born in SA, I don't think he'd appreciate being called South African though.
agreed there. i was born in england, but i'm half irish and my family is from ireland, and I don't like being called english, so i'd 'assume' that he would be the same. same with strauss as well.
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england have got two options, carry on with the inconsistent prior, or chuck someone young like kieswetter or davies in there to see what they can do. i want to be biased (somerset) by saying kieswetter, but i think both of them could cut it at international level with bat and gloves
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you wear your england test shirt all the time tumo!
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agreed there. i was born in england, but i'm half irish and my family is from ireland, and I don't like being called english, so i'd 'assume' that he would be the same. same with strauss as well.
i have the feeling as england captain strauss wouldn't mind being called english?
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you know what i mean peplow! he wouldnt want to be called a saffer
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Kieswetter averages <30 in First Class domestic cricket when he's not batting at Taunton. Yet he's being spoken of as a "batting-keeper". Lest us forget that he shells routine chances far too regularly for my liking.
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Have any idea of Foster/davies and Priors Fc stats home and away?
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dont know off the top of my head , but i'd be suprised if foster's dident have pretty good stats home and away from the county ground.
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Have any idea of Foster/davies and Priors Fc stats home and away?
Not off the top off my head. Depending on how bored I am through the week I might work them out for the 09 season.
Even if there is some difference it won't be as apparent as it is in Kieswetter, hardly surprising that he scores the bulk of his runs on the road at Taunton :p
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I think Kieswetter will be introduced in the not to distant future as a player to groom into a top class batsman/wicket keeper in the top 5 batting slots as we have struggled to replace him since Stewart retired. He has youth on his side and is obviously talented!
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Why do you think Somerset has got such a poor bowling line-up - no bowler in their right mind is going to want to move here!
Agree with what you say about Kieswetter, he does score a lot of runs at home - but like i said previosuly, he has the potential to be a truly magnificent international keeper despite what the stats say, statistically ramprakash and hick should have scored thousands of international runs but they didnt - plus i'm bias, i want to see a Somerset player back in the england squad!
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taunton wicket could be changing, phil frost has been axed!!
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Just thought I'd drop this in here ...
http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Players/97/97648/f_Batting_by_Ground.html
Without looking, who can guess how many tons Kieswetter has made when not playing at Taunton?
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taunton wicket could be changing, phil frost has been axed!!
yeha, at last, you have no idea how long I wanted this...well, 2 years but you get the idea. No way can Somerset win a title when they have a strip that cannot produce a result inside 4 days
Just thought I'd drop this in here ...
[url]http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Players/97/97648/f_Batting_by_Ground.html[/url]
Without looking, who can guess how many tons Kieswetter has made when not playing at Taunton?
you make a good point, but its hard to judge very well being 80% of those venues he has had only 2 innings at, thats like saying Trott is the best player england has because on his first game against the aussies/internatonial teams he got a century
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yeha, at last, you have no idea how long I wanted this...well, 2 years but you get the idea. No way can Somerset win a title when they have a strip that cannot produce a result inside 4 days
you make a good point, but its hard to judge very well being 80% of those venues he has had only 2 innings at, thats like saying Trott is the best player england has because on his first game against the aussies/internatonial teams he got a century
It's not about individual grounds, I'm not saying "Don't pick him for the Headingly Test! In the 3 innings he's played there he's averaged x amount" or anything like that.
The fact of the matter is that Kieswetter plays half of his games at home and half away. He's yet to score a ton away from home and his averagely is largely inflated from smashing runs on the flattest deck in the country.
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just looked at the pole not saying prior is a top keeper far from it but have some of you seen kieswetter keep he is not even as good as prior
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get real kieswetter is probably the best keep in england at the mo how muhc of him have u seen
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er about 4 live first class games last season you think he is the best keeper around he is not even in the top 5 on the county circuit keeping alone
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It's not about individual grounds, I'm not saying "Don't pick him for the Headingly Test! In the 3 innings he's played there he's averaged x amount" or anything like that.
The fact of the matter is that Kieswetter plays half of his games at home and half away. He's yet to score a ton away from home and his averagely is largely inflated from smashing runs on the flattest deck in the country.
he has scored a ton away from somerset
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get real kieswetter is probably the best keep in england at the mo how muhc of him have u seen
Gloveman or batsman? Either way he isn't.
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he is class he stands up takes cleany i rember him stupming troot of a wide ball from charl willoguhby pure class
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he has scored a ton away from somerset
Not in English domestic FC cricket.
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he is class he stands up takes cleany i rember him stupming troot of a wide ball from charl willoguhby pure class
I also remember him dropping Murray Goodwin in single figures before he made a triple century.
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I think putting Kieswetter in the team will give him confidence and experience, not in all 3 formats to begin with, maybe just T/20 or ODI's.
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has in english domestiic one day cricket wat the differnce
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has in english domestiic one day cricket wat the differnce
Are you seriously asking what's the difference between FC and List A cricket?
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keeping wise he is not in the same class as Read,Foster,Mustard, and Prior yes i do think he should be given a chance in one day cricket as a batsman only though
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Can not believe were doubting a keeper who has come on leaps and bounds as a keeper who is a top class batsman how many other sides in the world have the same
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yes seriously wat the diffence the weather is always dependant on the day the pitch could be used for 3 games in a row its still bat versus ball with more intent on scoring runs not a huge amoutn of diffence
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finisher have you ever seen keiswetter live i can tell you one thing he is doing well but i suspect a young Englishman will take his place in the Somerset side very soon just a hunch
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finisher have you ever seen keiswetter live i can tell you one thing he is doing well but i suspect a young Englishman will take his place in the Somerset side very soon just a hunch
seeing as i live about 30 mins from the ground and stay at my auntys who live by the morrisons next to the ground iv seen a fair bit of him iv netted with him for a whole week him and jimmy cook
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yes seriously wat the diffence the weather is always dependant on the day the pitch could be used for 3 games in a row its still bat versus ball with more intent on scoring runs not a huge amoutn of diffence
It's an entirely different game. It's cricket, I'll give you that but OD and FC are just not comparable.
You can't use the fact a player's good at one to why he's good at another.
It's been a mistake of the England set up far too many times over the last few years, pick players performing well in FC cricket in the ODI team and then give them a shot in the Test side if they do well in ODIs. It's a joke.
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seeing as i live about 30 mins from the ground and stay at my auntys who live by the morrisons next to the ground iv seen a fair bit of him iv netted with him for a whole week him and jimmy cook
I'll put it down to being biased then.
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To be fair i dont think he would keep for Somerst if he was not such a decent batsman
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well if you net with someone u see them up close and yes biased as i have several kieswetter and othe rplayers jumpers from that week
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ok one final question Why is Prior not good enough????
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kieswetter is a good batsman-keeper. when he's allowed to be aggressive, he's phenomenal with the bat. his keeping is a bit rusty though. even taking into account my notts bias, i'd rate the keeping (not the batting!) in this order at the moment:
1)Foster
2)Read
3)Ben Scott
4)Mustard
5)Davies
6)Prior
7)Kieswetter
and the batting as:
1)Prior
2)Davies
3)Kieswetter
4)Read
5)Scott
6)Foster
7)Mustard
it seems we've all forgotten Nic Pothas! Probably the best keeper batsman in the country, shame he's very old though!
and finisher - yes, you may have netted with him for a week, but i've seen him quite a bit on telly (Sky sports seem to love chelmsford and taunton - wonder why...) and his keeping has been everywhere from fantastic to down-right awful... whereas i've rarely seen foster put down a chance, i've only seen read put one or two down, and i've not seen prior do much wrong recently! just my opinion though mate...
And Marcus - Agreed COMPLETELY! Why do we blood players like Rashid (with an average to poor List A/Domestic 20/20 record) in the short form, when his best performances with both bat AND ball come in the longer form? And then Tredwell, who has an average FC record, gets called up as cover for Swann in the TEST arena? Surely his phenomenal one day record should mean he gets called up for ODI's as opposed to tests... Ugh, the idiocies of the selectors!
[/Rant]
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ok one final question Why is Prior not good enough????
never said he wasnt i jsut said kieswetter was better
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big bold statement would kieswtter average 40 in test cricket look around the world prior is currently in the top 2 in the new batsman/keeper slot
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Yep
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so on that evdience taking batting and keepin ginto account read is the best?? but is he actually tumo??
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big bold statement would kieswtter average 40 in test cricket look around the world prior is currently in the top 2 in the new batsman/keeper slot
just my opinion and to me i dnt look at averages its on the day and the key innings that do it for me
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infact i tell a lie i know its stats based but did anybody know Matt Prior as a keeper/batsman is ranked number 1 in the world
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Prior's keeping is good enough and he's the best batsman of the lot. So he gets my vote.
Once your glovework is "good enough" then it comes down to the best batsman in my opinion.
Kieswetter's glovework is shoddy and he's nowhere near being the best available keeper-batsman.
Davies and Prior are better with both gloves and willow.
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The only way Kieswetter would average anywhere near 40 in Test cricket is if we played Banglades/Pakistan away every single series.
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haddin averages less than Prior and i know if we go for a batsman/keeper it would be Prior all day every day but if we went the other way just for the best keeper it would be either Read/Foster
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so on that evdience taking batting and keepin ginto account read is the best?? but is he actually tumo??
ahh peplow, you're doing what i expected! if, for example, the top keeper has a 90% rating (hypothetical), it doesn't mean that the second best keeper in my list has an 80% rating, the third best has a 70% rating, and so on. It isn't the case. For example, i don't think there's much to choose between the top 4 keepers (foster, read, scott, mustard) and the same goes for the last 3 keepers (davies kies, prior). Similarly, with the bat, I don't think that Prior, Davies and Kieswetter are far apart, and Read/Foster/Scott are of similar abilities, Mustard being (in my opinion) a lesser batsman than the rest by a fair distance...
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ahh peplow, you're doing what i expected! if, for example, the top keeper has a 90% rating (hypothetical), it doesn't mean that the second best keeper in my list has an 80% rating, the third best has a 70% rating, and so on. It isn't the case. For example, i don't think there's much to choose between the top 4 keepers (foster, read, scott, mustard) and the same goes for the last 3 keepers (davies kies, prior). Similarly, with the bat, I don't think that Prior, Davies and Kieswetter are far apart, and Read/Foster/Scott are of similar abilities, Mustard being (in my opinion) a lesser batsman than the rest by a fair distance...
Don't rate Mustard's glovework that highly in my opinion but looking at the main candidates.
Glovework : Davies > Prior > Kieswetter
Batting : Prior >> Davies > Kieswetter
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ahhh i fell into the trap did i tumo!?! damn! i see what your saying, the difference between 1st and 2nd place etc aren't equal etc. makes sense.... seems as though you can either have a good batsman that wears keeper gloves, or a keeper that just swings his bat! if you get me....
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Peplow - Yeah, thats about right. You can't be a one trick pony (sory Monty, no more test cricket for you until you average 50 with the bat!) in this day and age. Gilchrist/Flower were both awesome bats and more than handy with the gloves, rod marsh + ian healy phenomenal keepers who could bat well. Alec Stewart, Prior, Haddin, etc. fall more into the first group, Boucher into the second. Akmal seems to struggle with both at present... ;) Mushfiqur Rahim and Baz McCullum seem to be the most all-rounded keepers at the moment, funnily enough! I don't think too much to Dhoni's keeping, either, before anyone asks! And Kieswetter/Davies won't have it all their own way in the future, Jonathon Bairstow, Tom Burrows, Ben Brown, Josh Knappett, and Ben Cox are all very talented keepers, and Bairstow looks incredible with the bat... Now all we need is some genuine quicks, and we're sorted!
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McCullum. Yuck.
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as i have asked this question but why is Luke Wright in the England test set up not to mind any set up in my opinion i understand balance and things but why do we pick a player who is not good enough with either bat or ball in any form of cricket at international level??
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jos butler could have a say in that list to tumo in the not to distance future as well
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as i have asked this question but why is Luke Wright in the England test set up not to mind any set up in my opinion i understand balance and things but why do we pick a player who is not good enough with either bat or ball in any form of cricket at international level??
Averaged close to 50 with the bat in the CC last year.
Don't agree with his selection either but you can sort of see why.
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as i have asked this question but why is Luke Wright in the England test set up not to mind any set up in my opinion i understand balance and things but why do we pick a player who is not good enough with either bat or ball in any form of cricket at international level??
one word mate: potential. he has the POTENTIAL to be a very, very good player. bowls 85mph upwards, gives it a good thwack, useful in the field. bit like james hopes of Oz, or abdul razzak of pakistan, albie morkel in SA etc. but with more potential, in my opinion. and marcus, not a fan of mccullum? i think he's quality personally. one of the best keepers in the world at present! Oh, in my previous post, i forgot to mention Prasanna Jayawardene of SL, the best keeper in the world. Technically perfect, useful batsman at number 7. But i think mccullum is top notch!
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just dont get it unless they see a emerging talent he is never going to bat in the top 6 or be more than a lunch bowler at that level so no amount of balancing is going to convince me otherwise
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marcus, not a fan of mccullum? i think he's quality personally. one of the best keepers in the world at present! Oh, in my previous post, i forgot to mention Prasanna Jayawardene of SL, the best keeper in the world. Technically perfect, useful batsman at number 7. But i think mccullum is top notch!
Good gloveman, I'd agree. Just to say he's one of the best balanced is wrong. Take out matches against Bangladesh and his average drops by nearly 5 runs to <30. Hardly the batting average of the "best balanced" keeper-batsman in the world.
Only one century as well.
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just dont get it unless they see a emerging talent he is never going to bat in the top 6 or be more than a lunch bowler at that level so no amount of balancing is going to convince me otherwise
Prior could bat 6 and Wright 7. That's what he's in the squad for.
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morkel v wright you serious different class morkel plays as a bowler and is proficent at this wright will never bee in that class and his batting is just not good enough to bat in top 6
hopes is not a bad player i can see your point in him but his record is alot better than wrights
marcus that why i said about balance but surely we have better
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if sanga wanted to keep he would be the best batsman/keeper in the world in my opinion and even he is not that great a keeper infact there seems a real girt of international good keeper i know this is a sign of the new "GILCHRIST" role affecting this
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morkel v wright you serious different class morkel plays as a bowler and is proficent at this wright will never bee in that class and his batting is just not good enough to bat in top 6
hopes is not a bad player i can see your point in him but his record is alot better than wrights
marcus that why i said about balance but surely we have better
Are you thinking of Morne Morkel?
Who is a better allround option? Ahmad Shehzad? The cupboard's bare.
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Good gloveman, I'd agree. Just to say he's one of the best balanced is wrong. Take out matches against Bangladesh and his average drops by nearly 5 runs to <30. Hardly the batting average of the "best balanced" keeper-batsman in the world.
Only one century as well.
but to be fair, a) he bats far too low, along with danny v, and b) they always have to repair the poor efforts from the openers and middle order, Taylor/Ryder excepted. When batting at number 7, in 30 tests, he averages 39.15 with 4 tons, 6 50's, and with a S/R of 65. Clearly that's where he should bat!
Procricket - i said albie, not morne morkel. Albie morkel is dire with the ball in my opinion, and hit and miss with the bat. Morne is a bowler not an allrounder. and a quality bowler at that. And Ajmal isn't that bad a player Marcus, but I agree, far too early. Maybe we just stick with what we've got for now, the 4 bowlers, Prior (he's done nothing wrong so far) and 6 batsmen, and get KP to bowl more. Very underrated with the ball!
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That a good point Marcus one i dont realy have a answer for i just think it a shame when we have not the cricketers to pick the 11 best cricketers we have instead of talking a balance when sometimes lesser players get a look in
Old fashoned value here but i think to be a regular with England you must be at international class in at least 1 of the 2 disciplines fielding is a given (monty apart)
maybe wright is good at being 12th man good fielder i know that
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That a good point Marcus one i dont realy have a answer for i just think it a shame when we have not the cricketers to pick the 11 best cricketers we have instead of talking a balance when sometimes lesser players get a look in
Old fashoned value here but i think to be a regular with England you must be at international class in at least 1 of the 2 disciplines fielding is a given (monty apart)
maybe wright is good at being 12th man good fielder i know that
Yeah I agree, it's just when the ball doesn't swing our bowling attack can look pretty toothless. So if they want Wright as a 5th option then that's what they want. Personally, I don't think his bowling's much better than Colly's. When you think that you could play a specialist batsman and bowl Colly instead, it adds much more to the side in my opinion.
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Fozzy, end of conversation.
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tumo there is a reason why Morkel and Hopes have played just 1 test between them that was my point why is Wright in the test squad.
Morkel is a better batsman in my opinion than Wright in all formats of cricket in my opinion
and bowler
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but to be fair, a) he bats far too low, along with danny v, and b) they always have to repair the poor efforts from the openers and middle order, Taylor/Ryder excepted. When batting at number 7, in 30 tests, he averages 39.15 with 4 tons, 6 50's, and with a S/R of 65. Clearly that's where he should bat!wi
Stats without Bangladesh. Number 7 position
filtered 2004-2009 25 1017 115 30.81 1
Averages 31 with one ton.
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tumo there is a reason why Morkel and Hopes have played just 1 test between them that was my point why is Wright in the test squad.
Morkel is a better batsman in my opinion than Wright in all formats of cricket in my opinion
and bowler
I can't agree with that unfortunately. For a start, Morkel is 4 years older, more time to play/get experienced. Secondly, he's had a dire last 2 seasons with the bat in all forms of the game. And if you look, Wright still hasn't played any tests. Morkel has been in the test squad repeatedly, but hasn't played. He's seen as a replacement for Kallis, just as Wright is seen as a replacement for Flintoff/Broad.
and Marcus, I don't take out bangladesh, they're a test side, they should be treated as such. McCullum has had to play against Mortaza/Shakib, who would push to get into most sides at the moment, and Shakib would easily get into any test side at the moment... Along with rubel hossain, amongst others, they have some very talented bowlers!
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tumo to be fair we talking about players morkel,wright,hopes who should not play test cricket and probably never will or in bits
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tumo to be fair we talking about players morkel,wright,hopes who should not play test cricket and probably never will or in bits
In your opinion yes? I don't think he's the greatest around, but i think he could do a job in test cricket. more of a one day player though for definite!
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and Marcus, I don't take out bangladesh, they're a test side, they should be treated as such. McCullum has had to play against Mortaza/Shakib, who would push to get into most sides at the moment, and Shakib would easily get into any test side at the moment... Along with rubel hossain, amongst others, they have some very talented bowlers!
You're talking crap. Shakib gets most of wickets due to batsmen trying to hammer him and losing their wicket. He's an average bowler. Mortaza is finished. Bowls at 125k's, not gonna strike fear into any of the world's best batsmen.
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no but if he is getting wickets, even its because people are trying to muller him, then he is doing something right. 20 wickets wins test matches.....
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no but if he is getting wickets, even its because people are trying to muller him, then he is doing something right. 20 wickets wins test matches.....
Bangladesh have taken 20 wickets in a Test match 4 times in 60 odd Tests.
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yeah but you have toget wickets to win, and if he is taking wickets then he is doing well. i dunno about pushing for any test side!!!! but he is obviously okay if he is getting test wickets against decent nations.
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You're talking crap. Shakib gets most of wickets due to batsmen trying to hammer him and losing their wicket. He's an average bowler. Mortaza is finished. Bowls at 125k's, not gonna strike fear into any of the world's best batsmen.
that's highly hypocritical. Shakib takes wickets against lots of sides. anybody that takes 6 5 wicket hauls in 16 tests doesn't get them because batsmen try to hammer him. his economy is 2.79. yeah, he clearly gets hammered, well done. In ODI cricket, his economy is 4.09. this means he is hard to get away. it builds pressure. then, they try to hit out, and they get out. the same applies in test matches. mortaza isn't finished by any stretch of the imagination. first off, he bowls at 130-135k's, normally, not 125 as you state. Secondly, line and length, with lateral movement, is key. look at Vaas/Mcgrath/Alec Bedser back in the day. Look at Zaheer the other day, took 4 wickets, bowling no quicker than 130k's for most of it. you don't need to be an all out quick if you have others in your side, like shafiul/rubel! I guarantee, anybody who has gotten out to Shakib will disagree with you in an instant.
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he is a good player how many odis has shakib played against zimbabwe? a lot, so this will have a imbalanced affect on his figures.
Mortaza is finished, he hasn't played for a long time...
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tell you who is doing a good job as well Paul Harris i never rated him and i know it in indai but he has proved people wrong in my eyes
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that's highly hypocritical. Shakib takes wickets against lots of sides. anybody that takes 6 5 wicket hauls in 16 tests doesn't get them because batsmen try to hammer him. his economy is 2.79. yeah, he clearly gets hammered, well done. In ODI cricket, his economy is 4.09. this means he is hard to get away. it builds pressure. then, they try to hit out, and they get out. the same applies in test matches. mortaza isn't finished by any stretch of the imagination. first off, he bowls at 130-135k's, normally, not 125 as you state. Secondly, line and length, with lateral movement, is key. look at Vaas/Mcgrath/Alec Bedser back in the day. Look at Zaheer the other day, took 4 wickets, bowling no quicker than 130k's for most of it. you don't need to be an all out quick if you have others in your side, like shafiul/rubel! I guarantee, anybody who has gotten out to Shakib will disagree with you in an instant.
Do not compare Zaheer to Mortaza. Zaheer has only recently come back from shoulder surgery. When fully fit, he's all ways around 138-142 kph.
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tell you who is doing a good job as well Paul Harris i never rated him and i know it in indai but he has proved people wrong in my eyes
Bowling 3ft down the leg side?
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Do not compare Zaheer to Mortaza. Zaheer has only recently come back from shoulder surgery. When fully fit, he's all ways around 138-142 kph.
he's not. he's really not. he bowls around the 135 mark, i've rarely seen him bowl any faster, and i've been watching cricket for most of his career. Mortaza has always had fitness problems. As a young promising quick, he was ran into the ground by his coaches, and has struggled to come back from that, yet still bowls between 130-135kph. And Alvaro, he's not played for a while because he has been injured! He's been playing Domestic cricket, and has been taking wickets very, very cheaply. And on the topic of shakib taking wickets against zimbabwe, you can only play against what's put in front of you. in tests, how often does he play against bangladesh or zimbabwe? he doesn't, so as an orthodox finger spinner, taking wickets at less than 30 against the top 8 test sides, is fairly good, don't you think?
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Obviously missed him when India toured here in 07.
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Obviously missed him when India toured here in 07.
Thing is though, I remember Ryan Sidebottom getting up to 92mph here against India, and Ryan Sidebottom doesn't do extreme pace...
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Bowling 3ft down the leg side?
got tendulkar out a few time i have seen and to be fair anybody who get's him out cant be all bad i for one like Hariis attitude typical Saffa plays hard but had a moment when he hit Doni in the head and asked him if he was ok.
Good guy good cricketer makes most of what he has got
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got tendulkar out a few time i have seen and to be fair anybody who get's him out cant be all bad i for one like Hariis attitude typical Saffa plays hard but had a moment when he hit Doni in the head and asked him if he was ok.
Good guy good cricketer makes most of what he has got
He's got Sachin out twice, each time Sachin had already scored a hundred.
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He's got Sachin out twice, each time Sachin had already scored a hundred.
Got him out on test debut i think as well....
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Got him out on test debut i think as well....
Monty Panesar did that as well. Where is he now.....
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Panesar is a victim of his own success whereas Paul Harris never really had any....
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Panesar is a victim of his own success whereas Paul Harris never really had any....
I like your thinking buddy :)
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After Kieswetters great innings for the Lions, should he have been picked for todays game? I think he should have, although prior looked decent in the warm-up game.
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Reckon they will trot out the 'continuity' selection thinking for the next few games but then don't think it will be long before Keiswetter gets the call
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I think that Prior might crumble under the pressure.
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Panesar is a victim of his own success whereas Paul Harris never really had any....
choppy not bad average 35 in test cricket for a finger spinner and a strike rate of 75 hardly unsuccessful is it.
in fact it very similar to panasar so to sat this about Harris well what your thinking??
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Im sure if you see Panesars average in the same no. of tests that Harris has played, his average, wickets taken and s.r are better than Harris. Panesar took 101 wickets at 32 with a strike rate of 65 ---he was a far better bowler.
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stas wise prove not though and if you look woh he has got out can not be that bad
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How many games has Paul Harris changed/influenced for SA so greatly it changed the outcome of the match?
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Monty helped save an ashes series with the BAT
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Yes, when has Harris won a series with batting or bowling?
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Not a series, not even a match!
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No he got 6fer against Aussies when they were chasing 400 to win, he won that for them.....cant think of anything else though.
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Ok then, one match! World class! SA are lucky the have Steyn and Morkel!
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i have not said anything about who is better i just said he has some achievement in test cricket 8 4 or 5 wicket hauls in tests and playing for the number 2 side in the world and as i have previously stated he uses all the ability he has and has done well with what he has got for his efforts.
As i said a good cricketer and a good guy nothing else nothing more and his stats stand up to Monty who iam not saying is a worst bowler there diffrent bowler one a containment one a aggressive bowler that all.
if Monty had Harris mentality he would have been alot better than Harris that the point i making it about making most of what you have and i have no doubt Monty potentially is a much better bowler
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who said Harris is world class but he aint a bad one though.
and in my original point he has done well with the talent he has
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who said Harris is world class but he aint a bad one though.
he is..monty is a ' wicket taker ' and harris is a holding bowler .
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so to my point mate look at there strike rates like i said harris is doing well
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so to end this harris stuff
Should Paul Harris keep for England
probably heheh
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Depends if he can bat well? Lol, lets see how the england chase goes :D
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so, with juts one t20 before the world cup, do we try Craig in the next game after todays terrible start? Mind you I had to agree it was a good idea not to play him today, a slight bit early, but we have 1 t20 left, we HAVE to play him
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Yes we do, even if he doesn't keep, but I would love to see his Pink Puma mitts along with the evolution batting gear out on tv
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Kieswetter is Englands way forward in t20 cricket! The sooner we get him in, the better. Kieswetter t20, Foster/Prior odi, Prior/Foster tests.
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I can't see Foster playing cricket for England in Tests, even ODI's he doesn't have the batting required by the England selectors
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I think that a decent run in either side would give him the confidence to be a very effective batsman for England.
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If Foster played Test cricket, surety he could at 8 or 9? Swann and/or Broad could bat in front of him
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sorry but for me Foster is a better batsman than Broad i think both him and Read will be both overlooked because international sides dont like there keepers batting below 7 for balance reasons
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Very true, I would have this as the order:
Strauss
Cook
Trott
Pietersen
Collingwood
Bell
Swann
Foster
Broad
Anderson
Onions
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i like the look of that team but looks a little light on batting in the lower middle order
not keen on Swann at 7 for me
and i can not see Prior being dropped any time soon and nor should he
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It would really help if Fred didn't retire because we could have Flintoff at 7, Foster at 8 and Swann at 9! Then drop Broad :D
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why would you drop prior though????
there is no better batsman/keeper in world cricket and his keeping has been getting stronger and stronger.
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why would you drop prior though????
there is no better batsman/keeper in world cricket and his keeping has been getting stronger and stronger.
Kumar Sangakara(not sure on spelling) Haddin probably has the edge on him, MS Dhoni
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only dhoni averages more than prior sangakkara doesn't keep in tests Haddin averages less than Prior in tests and not one of the above are great keepers.
i know stats are only half the battle but after the amount of times theses players have played i think they give a big reflection
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Who has influenced games with big hundreds more then?
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both Haddin and Prior have 2 hundread each so not to far out and as for dhoni on mainly batsman friendly innings in India well he is in the same mould as both in test cricket.
There can be no doubting Dhoni in one day cricket
put it in another context if Haddin was English would we all be grumbling i suspect not yet him and Prior have identical records.
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I can see Kieswetter moving into T20 soon followed by ODI and then Test cricket, he is the best batsman and his keeping is good and getting even better, plus he has age on his side.
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competition is always a good thing and were lucky we have good players coming through i would blood him tomorrow but as a batsman ony would be good to see another player get his chance
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Definitely agree with you Mike, saw him throw down the stumps with i direct hit, on the turn from about 30 yards away with his keeping gloves on! May not sounds amazing, but watching it it was!
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only dhoni averages more than prior sangakkara doesn't keep in tests Haddin averages less than Prior in tests and not one of the above are great keepers.
i know stats are only half the battle but after the amount of times theses players have played i think they give a big reflection
Procricket
Dhoni, McCullum and Haddin are all better keepers than Prior.
Prior's Test average is only above 40 due to bashing a p*ss poor Windies side.
Dhoni, looks village at times, has scored hundred against Pakistan, Sri Lanka and South Africa - no gimmes in those bowling attacks. Batting 'flat pitches' doesn't make any difference. Prior and Haddin have played in India and haven't scord hundreds....
Haddin spent years waiting for Gilly to retire before getting ago, so his agility may not be at it's peak any longer. He's older then the rest.
McCullum plays in the weakest side out of the 4 I mentioned. If he playe in a stronger side his record could we be better.
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well i will stick with prior for at least next 4 years yes nobody can tell the future but i think he will be around for a long time (watch now he will disappear from the scene)
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oh i forgot England have always been strong we could goaround all day jeet answer me one question why not prior???
my England test team
1.Cook
2. Strauss
3.Key
4.Pietersen
5.Bell
6.Collingwood
7.Prior
8.Broad
9.Swann
10.Sidebottam
11.Anderson
i would use Collingwood as my 5th bowler risky i know and i think Key will struggle to get another chance but that my side and yes i have left Trott out harsh i know but it my opinion
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Procricket
Dhoni, McCullum and Haddin are all better keepers than Prior.
Prior's Test average is only above 40 due to bashing a p*ss poor Windies side.
Dhoni, looks village at times, has scored hundred against Pakistan, Sri Lanka and South Africa - no gimmes in those bowling attacks. Batting 'flat pitches' doesn't make any difference. Prior and Haddin have played in India and haven't scord hundreds....
Haddin spent years waiting for Gilly to retire before getting ago, so his agility may not be at it's peak any longer. He's older then the rest.
McCullum plays in the weakest side out of the 4 I mentioned. If he playe in a stronger side his record could we be better.
Saying that about Haddin, he was taking some brilliant catches vs Pakistan in the odi's!
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Saying that about Haddin, he was taking some brilliant catches vs Pakistan in the odi's!
I totally agree, but he's not as agile as McCullum. Dhoni has surprised with his agility, he looks a tad tubby to me lol
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oh i forgot England have always been strong we could goaround all day jeet answer me one question why not prior???
my England test team
1.Cook
2. Strauss
3.Key
4.Pietersen
5.Bell
6.Collingwood
7.Prior
8.Broad
9.Swann
10.Sidebottam
11.Anderson
i would use Collingwood as my 5th bowler risky i know and i think Key will struggle to get another chance but that my side and yes i have left Trott out harsh i know but it my opinion
I know it is your opinion, but surely you would bat collingwood before bell?
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oh i forgot England have always been strong we could goaround all day jeet answer me one question why not prior???
my England test team
1.Cook
2. Strauss
3.Key
4.Pietersen
5.Bell
6.Collingwood
7.Prior
8.Broad
9.Swann
10.Sidebottam
11.Anderson
i would use Collingwood as my 5th bowler risky i know and i think Key will struggle to get another chance but that my side and yes i have left Trott out harsh i know but it my opinion
The strong bit was a joke?
Prior's confidence seems low, and maybe looking over his shoulder and fretting when Kieswetter will take his slot?
As much as I want Davies to be the next England keeper, Kieswetter's in form get him in the side. No point keeping the form man waiting
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I know it is your opinion, but surely you would bat collingwood before bell?
not if i used him a lot as the 5th bowler no i wouldn't
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But would you want a part time medium pacer bowlig fifteen + overs in a test match innings?
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not if i used him a lot as the 5th bowler no i wouldn't
All you've done is switch Trott for Key and then Bell and COllingwood for apparently no reason.
Collingwood acts as our 5th bowler anyway.
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But would you want a part time medium pacer bowlig fifteen + overs in a test match innings?
When do 5th bowlers ever bowl that much?
It worked well enough in South Africa.
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I can see Kieswetter moving into T20 soon followed by ODI and then Test cricket, he is the best batsman and his keeping is good and getting even better, plus he has age on his side.
I can see him making the move in the Limited Overs sides but I sincerely hope he doesn't get close to the Test sides unless he starts scoring runs on a consistent basis when he's not abtting on the flattest deck in the country.
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I think Kieswetter will be playing all forms for England by the end of the year.The sooner they get him in the better as far as I'm concerned. Going to put some money on it...wonder what the odds are ?
May also mean my mate Spurway getting another chance with Somerset.
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Has Butler got any chace of donning the gloves for somerset if it does happen or just batting only
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I guess so Procricket. Butler is the only other keeper Somerset have but it would be a big ask for him to be number 1 keeper in all forms (assuming Kieswetter is with England)
Could see Somerset signing another keeper and Spurway is available.
Played against Jos Butler season before last. Great player for someone who was only 17 at the time. He had 80 no if i remember.
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Butler is a superb player, he spanked 160 odd no. against us. one for the future for sure. but not ready to take the gloves for somerset if kieswetter is occupied elsewhere.
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Looks like Kieswetter will make his ODI debut in Bangladesh
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I'm a big fan of Kieswetter but i think it would be unfair to drop Prior, especially in tests as he really improved and hasn't done much wrong, perhaps Kieswetter should keep in the shorter forms but if he's playing tests it should be Bell that is dropped not Prior.
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kieswetter should just come in as a batmen, not necessarily to take the gloves too. from what ive seen of him in his last few outings he deserves his place, well Trotts place! in the shorter formats of course. tests, maybe not just yet.
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Prior didn't have the best game today..... Dropped a chance off Swann and missed a half-volley which went for byes. Could be argued they were not easy, but should've been dealt with. Kieswetter to keep in ODI's and T/20's.