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[uknsaunders]

More a business point than any comment on the topic. What bothers me is if IJC couldn't get hold of any brands that were open and honest about the source of their bats, would they refuse to stock any bats? Very unlikely I know but you still have a business to run. What if brand x gave you an 80% firesale discount and a chance to double your money while shifting loads of stock? My issue is not the statement itself, which you hope would bring it's own rewards, but the implications of such a statement for any business. Effectively forcing you to adopt one model of operating that may not be sustainable in 2/3 years time.

[ItsJustCricket]

The ones I mentioned are ones I have either witnessed first hand. Or have seen evidence off.

Salix chase and rob pack I haven't so can't comment.


My reply was going on people fitting handles, if seniorplayer is referring to people that actually make there handles, then I could be well wrong.
But if we are gonna get pedantic and claim people aren't true batmakers as they buy handles in, then we are going to far.

completely agree about the handles.

You are missing out not having been to Salix.  Possibly the most impressive setup we have ever been to...

[ItsJustCricket]

More a business point than any comment on the topic. What bothers me is if IJC couldn't get hold of any brands that were open and honest about the source of their bats, would they refuse to stock any bats? Very unlikely I know but you still have a business to run. What if brand x gave you an 80% firesale discount and a chance to double your money while shifting loads of stock? My issue is not the statement itself, which you hope would bring it's own rewards, but the implications of such a statement for any business. Effectively forcing you to adopt one model of operating that may not be sustainable in 2/3 years time.

Maybe, but if it's not sustainable I will probably prefer to sell the business and move on.

[roco]

Do you class having the ability to make from a raw cleft a batmaker r one that does this all the time?

As a couple of brands use copy lathe or cnc prepared bats then finish them off as it is way more cost and time effective but no less a batmaker

[Chad]

GM, b3 and kippax being the obvious ones.

H4l known by us forumites

Redink have handled and pressed clefts I've supplied, so are certainly capable.
Aldred has shown videos of him handling and pressing bats.


I'm sure there more.

I think he means actually make the handles themselves rather than importing! Chase and Charlie French come to mind, but I'm not sure if I'm just imagining things. Not that importing handles is bad, it does take a fair bit of work and time, so sourcing them from elsewhere is pretty standard, the correct manufacturers make excellent handles, I think Procricket said that he's found Ransons to do the best.

[KettonJake]

Virtually everything IJC has said is exactly what GM are, yet IJC refuse to stock GM? They are honest, open, any member of the public can ask to go and visit the facility and see everything they do first hand. The bats are entirely made in Nottingham, the only sticking point seems to be this obsession with handpicking?

That's why we dropped certain brands (those in the know will know) who misled customers about the provenance of their bat,

http://newbery.co.uk/pages/about-newbery

Don't Newbery outsource some of their bat making?
And doesn't TK have a CNC machine? 

Some extracts from the about us page on the Newbery website:

''At Newbery we can trace our bat making heritage back to 1919 when the Newbery family first made handmade cricket bats in the picturesque surroundings of East Sussex, England.

Our unique skills have been handed down through generation from John Newbery and we have an expert history that we still apply today to produce the highest quality custom cricket bats and cricket supplies.

In a space dominated by mass machine produced hardware Newbery is a bastion of British craftsmanship committed to keeping these values alive and kicking. The philosophy of Newbery remains the same now as it did in 1919: Quality, aesthetic and performance.''

''When crafting the bat each individual cleft (block of Willow) is selected, assessed and hand crafted with traditional tools.''

The video itself at the top of the about us page shows a bat being crafted in a very traditional manner. There is not even a cameo appearance from Tim's CNC machine.

It has been asked (and seemingly ignored) already by a couple of people, but why is Newbery treated differently to the brands you have dropped? Moreover, as suggested by Tom, why is the Platinum bat being marketed in the exact way you have said you feel is wrong?

To clear a few things up. Whilst of course there is a close and historic relationship between the Keeleys and Newbery, it is now a straightforward fact that Newbery do not make any bats themselves. They contract out the work and make very good use of Tim's CNC machine. IJC's stance that they won't stock brands who mislead customers doesn't really stack up given the claims about traditional techniques made on Newberys website. This is not me poo-pooing the CNC process at all, Tim is one of the finest bat makers out there, if not the best. Much of his skill and fine detailed work on a bat cannot be replicated by a CNC machine. He still puts plenty of handcrafted time into his bats, just not as much as the batmakers in 1919 did as suggested by Newbery, indeed they seemingly go a step further by referring to mass machine production in a negative manner...

As a quick aside, it is widely known that Tim doesn't make junior bats, Newberys junior bats (i suspect) are imported, I don't know where from but a while ago i think it was from Bellingham Smith in SA. Is this something IJC customers are made aware of?

[smilley792]

@InsideInfo

Second time you've had a pop at ijc regarding there issues with GM??

Do you work for GM?


You've already stated you work within the industry, so time to man up and tell us who you are, otherwise how can your comment be valid?? They could be hugely onesided.

[Beachcricket]

If the craft of bat making is dying and it's difficult to earn a living making cricket bats then...

What is the purpose in supporting a middle man?

I've heard the argument that they can produce shapes and profiles unique to them, but essentially the skill of the bat maker realises that and often they're not reinventing the wheel. The bat maker still has to use their skills and knowledge.

In 2012, I received a message via Facebook from a bat maker who essentially questioned me and my bat making simply asking "Are you for real???", "How many bats have you made?" and "Are you a recognised Pod Shaver?". Once I'd explained I'd been teaching myself for 15+ years, didn't refer to myself as a Pod Shaver or Bat Maker (and still to this day don't like the term bat maker) and that if I'd offended him with something I'd written then I was sorry.

In truth I should have been offended and I was certainly confused. I felt I'd been personally attacked for having passion for skill that I felt wasn't being celebrated and still don't think it is. I've always wished to conduct myself with respect for other bat makers and those who've come before me by not making claims I can't back up. In truth, I've gone the other way and not been confident because I've felt I hadn't earned my stripes.

Compare this to the brands that don't make their bats, brands that B******t about how their bats are master crafted by "our bat maker", traditional, full of heritage, passion etc etc etc...

I could get irate about them, I could be angry about the fact that they dilute that which I've worked hard to earn. That they make claims I would never dream of making and that I don't email them to question their work.

This is the industry. It's full of cloak and dagger, smoke and mirrors and BS. It's over saturated with brand and not bat makers. Manufacturing is thriving yet the craft is struggling to maintain a foothold partly due to the prevalence and ease of with which a brand can exist. The traditional skills of Pod Shaving aren't being passed on in the way were some years ago, so inevitably it's declining. We can't really complain about branding, outsourcing and mass production if we don't support those carrying on the craft.

I can understand how many within the industry have become jaded to newcomers and how the bat maker I mentioned earlier, could email me to question my work and the veracity of my words. It doesn't make it acceptable though and should I meet him it will come up in conversation.

This is an industry where Julian Millichamp can retire without any public acknowledgment or celebration. One where someone as talented as Tim Keeley is an ethereal figure and one where the label is more important than the skills and knowledge that facilitate the ACTUAL quality of a cricket bat... and people think this is bad!!! This is without doubt the tip of the iceberg.

I get emails from people wishing to get in bat making, hopefully helping them to avoid the mistakes I've made. The one thing I never do is discourage them from learning but I'm always honest about the industry as I know it. Perhaps my perception is skewed slightly but when I get unpleasant emails and deception propagates and prospers, what can I think?

Paul has done the right thing to start cleaning up the BS. But there's so much that he can't do it on his own as I've realised. Despite having a lot to say on bat making I haven't, partially worried I would offend someone else and further ostracise myself from an insular industry. For 2 years I've been writing a piece about relabelling and rebranding and struggling to construct my view having changed my opinion so many times. Whilst I don't agree with everything Paul has said, I agree in principal.

I'd like to thank Paul and the responses here. You've solidified my view of it all and will now I can get around to finishing that piece.

[KettonJake]

@InsideInfo

Second time you've had a pop at ijc regarding there issues with GM??

Do you work for GM?


You've already stated you work within the industry, so time to man up and tell us who you are, otherwise how can your comment be valid?? They could be hugely onesided.

Don't think i've posted since this time last year, although i have followed, mainly to keep track of the ongoing helmet discussions. Anyway, last year i gave (in my opinion) a fairly balanced view on GM but also why their Sigma/Zona ranges aren't the best of ideas. I am not involved at GM, I'm sure Ed Lowy would know if i worked for him

It wasn't meant as a pop, just a genuine question about why GM is a brand IJC refuse to stock considering they meet all the criteria regarding openness, honesty, making their own bats etc, IJC and GM seem a much better fit than Newbery and IJC. I perhaps then went a little too into detail regarding exactly how Newbery operate, but i'll be honest, i've never read their about us page before and it took me by surprise a little!

I've thought of another one, will New Balance be handpicked? To my knowledge they aren't set up for this? (again just a genuine question not a hand grenade)

[FattusCattus]

This is an industry where Julian Millichamp can retire without any public acknowledgment or celebration. One where someone as talented as Tim Keeley is an ethereal figure

Tim is an ethereal figure by choice, he has withdrawn from the public eye and contact wherever he can - and to a degree I don't blame him, as had all sorts of people trying to visit him, do deals, wangle freebies etc.

However, the fact is that it is he who has made himself less accessible - not the industry, and that's perfectly understandable.

[Seniorplayer]

Wasn't being pedantic Chris  just thought it would be good to know  who makes  bats from start to finish   as I have only witnessed one company that does so which was none of the already mentioned.

[smilley792]

Wasn't being pedantic Chris  just thought it would be good to know  who makes  bats from start to finish   as I have only witnessed one company that does so which was none of the already mentioned.

Nixon made his own handles, although I'm not sure he makes anything at mo(again could be wrong I don't really see many or here off him anymore)

[Beachcricket]

Tim is an ethereal figure by choice, he has withdrawn from the public eye and contact wherever he can - and to a degree I don't blame him, as had all sorts of people trying to visit him, do deals, wangle freebies etc.

However, the fact is that it is he who has made himself less accessible - not the industry, and that's perfectly understandable.

I meant in the sense that he's not celebrated for the talent and skill he's worked hard for. I completely agree that he's chosen to withdraw from the public eye for reasons of his own which should be respected. I was merely saying that the bat makers are often no showcased or highlighted for their talents. I've found this constructs that brand is more important than the skill that created the quality that then carries the brand.

Perhaps I didn't explain that I feel that bat making should have it's own identity as a craft or skill that then doesn't rely on a brand having to market it. There should be some way of making the craft of bat making as important considering it facilitates the existence of any brand.

[rickjames]

I've thought of another one, will New Balance be handpicked? To my knowledge they aren't set up for this? (again just a genuine question not a hand grenade)

Having spoken to Paul over email he confirmed they don't get to handpick.

As a returner to the game with little/no knowledge etc it's a pretty insightful article and I look all the more forward to going to IJC over the winter and picking up my first bat, wherever it's made

[liscon12]

So from this point onwards we can assume IJC is only going to sell bats which meet the ethos they are trying to promote and deal with brands that help the fellow bat maker, but my question is what made you [IJC] decide to sell brands such as CP, Spartan in the first place?