First home made bat - designed by artificial intelligence
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InternalTraining

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Re: First home made bat - designed by artificial intelligence
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2020, 06:57:53 PM »

Ok.

I found this: http://epsassets.manchester.ac.uk/structural-concepts/StudentCoursework/contents/43.pdf

Is there a better document that describes the node of percussion and sweet spot?
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Buzz

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Re: First home made bat - designed by artificial intelligence
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2020, 08:34:37 PM »

Some older YouTube vids from Andy Safbats Norbs talks a about this.
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marsbug

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Re: First home made bat - designed by artificial intelligence
« Reply #32 on: August 21, 2020, 04:25:05 PM »

Thanks for all the discussion of other bat shapes that are similar, I've had a great time looking them all up (and fell down a bit of a rabbit hole of old designs - e.g. https://number17rc.weebly.com/gray-nicolls-scoops.html#). And it's really good to have a summary of the vibration node stuff, after a few months of trying to read up on all of it.

I wanted to try a different way of sharing the actual shape, so have tried out a bit of 3D scanning software on my phone. It's ok as a quick first try (disclaimer: I do a bit of this photogrammetry at work, but can't get onto my fancy computers at the moment to do it properly!). But here is the link to a 3D model that you can move around:

https://skfb.ly/6UBPp

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billyb

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Re: First home made bat - designed by artificial intelligence
« Reply #33 on: August 21, 2020, 08:08:53 PM »

Never thought I'd see the word photogrammetry on this forum!  :D
Cool stuff. Did anyone ever use a GM Sigma? They had a funky design.
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Kulli

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Re: First home made bat - designed by artificial intelligence
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2020, 12:17:49 AM »

That should be mandatory on all for sale threads in future!
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marsbug

Re: First home made bat - designed by artificial intelligence
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2021, 01:19:48 PM »

Hi. Sorry for bumping such an old thread, hope it is ok, but I thought it best here as it follows on from my original post. Although this might end up being a bit niche, so apologies in advance.

Since I posted about making my first bat, I have spent the last 12 months reading every (yes, really!) thread on bat making, figured out how to carry out structural modelling of bats, and generally feeding an unhealthy obsession with bat making.

Sticking to the original post, where the design of the bat I made was based on artificial intelligence – anybody can now access the full Masters thesis where the method is described in loads of detail: https://open.library.ubc.ca/soa/cIRcle/collections/ubctheses/24/items/1.0392675

I got in touch with the author, who was very kind and helped me out in recreating part of his work. Long story short, I managed to run his (slightly modified) code in Ansys, an engineering simulation software package. The result is that I can use it to predict quite a few things of interest for bats of almost any shape, like mass and volume, centres of mass and percussion, location of vibration nodes, etc… My main interest is in seeing how the different shapes of bats change these parameters, concentrating on their effect on things that most people are familiar with, like pickup and sweetspot.

The modelling is not perfect, as the shape of the back of the bat is estimated from 50 points. Overall this is actually pretty good at recreating most shapes, but if there is some feature that is a bit small in one direction (looking at you Dynadrive) then it can be missed. Those 50 points are meshed together, along with edges, toe, face and handle, in Ansys for the modelling, allowing you to come up with ridiculous shapes like this

free photo upload

You then carry out the structural analysis, which means you can deform the bat like this:

image share

Back to the original bat. I have used it twice, and it feels ok. There is a nice butterfly stain running pretty much across the middle, which might help things a little. Here are a few photos to remind you of the slightly odd shape, taken after I learnt how to polish bats a bit better.





The bat weighs 2 lbs 10.8 oz in real life, and looks like it should have a low sweetspot. The modelling does a pretty good job in this case, with the predicted weight being 2 lbs 11.5 oz (I did not play around with the modelled density, just used a constant one, so could improve), and the shape matching the real one quite nicely.



So trying to show some of the results on the bat itself, with COM = centre of mass, COP = centre of percussion, node 1 and node 2 = nodal points (of interest) for 1st and 2nd vibration modes. I think the definition of these have been covered a lot on this forum, but just in case…the COP is where the batter will feel no recoil of the bat, instead just a perfect rotation about the pivot point between the two hands. The nodal points are locations where the bat will not vibrate, instead transmitting more energy into the ball. The sweetspot is often defined as an area consisting of some combination of these points. In the thesis (page 48), an “objective function” is defined, that basically looks at how close together these 3 points are – the lower the value, the better the middle, at least according to that work. The centre of mass will, to a large extent, help define the pickup of the bat (i.e. the higher the centre of mass, the better the pickup will feel).

I marked the location of these features on my bat, to see how they compare with the shape, and the results are what you expect: the sweetspot defined by this method is pretty much where there is the most wood. It is still satisfying to see where exactly I should be aiming for (not that I often manage to!)



To me, I would say that this bat has a low middle, and the pickup feels a bit heavier than I would normally like. Which makes me interested in how the values compare with different bat shapes. So I went off and analysed some bats and have got way more results than people could probably ever care about!

But some of the more interesting things, at least to me…

Reassuringly, the overall weight of the bat does not seem to have much of an effect on where the middle or centre of mass are. Of course, the mass will affect the ball speed, but that also comes down to bat speed etc., and I want to focus on just the bat performance itself. At the risk of alienating everybody, I’ve made some graphs…apologies in advance.

In the top graph below, I’ve plotted mass against objective function. Lower objective function means those 3 points (COP, node 1, node 2) are closer together.
In the bottom graph below, I’ve plotted mass against the centre of mass location. Higher COM value means pickup might feel better.



So what I think this means is that we are not constrained just by weight in how a bat can perform. But instead, the shape of the back can have a real (hopefully noticeable) difference.

Exploring this idea a bit further, below I’ve plotted the COM (“pickup”) against objective function (“size of middle”) for the same bats as in the above plots. What we can now see is an apparent relationship: the higher the centre of mass, the higher (poorer) the objective function. Those bats that fall below the straight line could be said to have a better middle (according to this definition) without sacrificing pickup. So I’ve named a few of the bats, and given pictures for the more weird ones.



And finally, removing the definition of a sweetspot, and just showing exactly where the different points occur on the bats, again as a function of COM. There is a lot that could be read into this I suppose, but one interesting point is that the node 2 location does not change all that much, whereas the node 1 point does. Given that the amplitude of the vibration that creates node 1 is greater than node 2, then this seems like an important effect. And this is of course just a few bat designs that I measured up – I am in the process of doing this properly, using the best database I could find, which is the CAD models on the B3 website – I have over 100 different shapes measured and am now modelling, so I can take a proper look at the effect of duckbill V traditional toe, concaving, sweetspot position…



I promise to now follow up with the bats I have actually been making, rather than just plotting graphs about them!
« Last Edit: August 26, 2021, 08:43:00 PM by marsbug »
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InternalTraining

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Re: First home made bat - designed by artificial intelligence
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2021, 01:49:54 PM »


free photo upload


This is awesome!!!!

If I could, I'd give you a Nobel Prize!

Now, questions for you:
- In the picture above, what's the shape on the other side of the bat i.e. the side that's not shown? Is there a bow there?

- Did you try the converse of the experiment where you maximized the dimension ("centres of mass and percussion, location of vibration nodes") to see what was resulting (albeit weird) shape? I am driving towards a shape that provides maximum performance.

- Have you tried the good ol' Warne shape (thick back, huge edges) in your analysis?

Just love you work, bravo!!
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marsbug

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Re: First home made bat - designed by artificial intelligence
« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2021, 02:18:37 PM »

Ha! Bit too kind, but it has been a bit of a labour of love figuring this stuff out.

Answering your questions:

- that is an important point about the bow. One of the simplifications is that there is no bow to the bat. There is a 5 mm (I think) curvature across the face, but no bow along the face.

- the premise of the thesis work was to do exactly that. He used a genetic algorithm to basically go through almost every possible combination of shapes, to figure out the best. There were some constraints, like the legal size, and making sure that it was structurally sound, but otherwise it could be anything.

- not yet, but I would happily give it a go! The main problem with this is having the measurements. The actual analysis is fairly easy now I have a system to do it. I have considered going into a cricket shop, and just asking if i can sit down for an hour and measure all their bats, but think I might get slung out! If anyone has the dimernsions of their favourite bat then just put them up and I will see what I can do.
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InternalTraining

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Re: First home made bat - designed by artificial intelligence
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2021, 02:26:48 PM »


- not yet, but I would happily give it a go! The main problem with this is having the measurements.

What specifically do you need? I have a couple, unused , brand, spanking new Waners! So, the dimensions are unchanged, as Stuart Kranzbuhler intended. :D
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InternalTraining

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Re: First home made bat - designed by artificial intelligence
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2021, 02:28:34 PM »

He used a genetic algorithm to basically go through almost every possible combination of shapes, to figure out the best.

What was the outcome of that exercise?
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jayralh

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Re: First home made bat - designed by artificial intelligence
« Reply #40 on: August 24, 2021, 03:00:53 AM »

I did not understand a bit. But interesting read.
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marsbug

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Re: First home made bat - designed by artificial intelligence
« Reply #41 on: August 24, 2021, 09:21:00 AM »

What specifically do you need? I have a couple, unused , brand, spanking new Waners! So, the dimensions are unchanged, as Stuart Kranzbuhler intended. :D

I could probably give it a go with the usual dimensions (toe, maximum edge and swell, shoulders) and a good side profile. But it would be guessing.

Ideally, what I do is use one of these flooring gizmos to take a profile, and then measure off that.


The code I run needs points measuring according to the grid below (taken from the thesis)

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marsbug

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Re: First home made bat - designed by artificial intelligence
« Reply #42 on: August 24, 2021, 09:29:56 AM »

Back to making bats, rather than putting them on graphs…

I got 2 part mades from Hell4Leather – 1 x grade 2, 1 x grade 3 – to slowly keep working my way up from butterfly as I practise more. Annoyingly, I cannot for the life of me find the pictures I took of them in that state, which is annoying. Sorry.

So I don’t have many in progress photos for this one, but the idea was to carry on making shapes that are not really possible to buy. I sketched up this shape first, with the idea that it would be kind of like the Tesla Cyber Truck of bats. I wanted straight lines everywhere, totally unnatural. But not like the mid-1990s GM Diamond, which for some reason I never liked the look of. I used the grade 3 for this one, as I was worried it was going to go very wrong.


I assumed that this would be a bit heavy, and so I was going to try to take an ounce or two out by routing out some geometric lines about 3-4 mm wide, and maybe the same deep. One of the patterns I was thinking about is in this image, but as it turned out, the weight was ok and my fingers were safe from routing without a jig.
toast hampstead

Final measurements:
Toe: 14 – 28 mm
Edge: 40 mm
Swell: 62 mm
Shoulder: 10 mm
Weight: 2 lbs 9.5 oz

I am kind of surprised a bit, but the pickup on this shape just feels fantastic, at least to me. I guess that is because of having a lot less wood towards the toe (I hope I never have to face a yorker with it!).

I still had an old setup for making this one, so the backbreaking workmate (I do not recommend it – far too low) and mostly a plane. It was obviously fairly easy to stick to the dimensions I wanted because of the straight lines, but the point where the 4 lines join is not quite perfect, which will annoy me forever.



As with all the bats I have made recently, I like the idea of them being a little bit different. So I went with black twine on the handle, and even hid the exposed top part with a little black kinesiology tape.


I also came up with some new stickers for this lot of bats. On the handle there is a metallic sticker, which can be seen under the silicone grip. And on the bat, not being able to afford embossing on a small run, I went with textured matt vinyl, which I think matches the fairly simple design quite nicely. For some of the stickers I went with pretty complicated cut lines, and so had to apply those with tweezers and transfer tape for vinyl. It can be a bit fiddly, but ok once you do it once or twice.





And for the modelling side of things. Well, because of the easy shape I think it did a good job. Modelled weight was almost spot on at 2 lbs 9.6 oz. And the shape was pretty good too, although not all lines stayed as straight as I wanted.


For this bat, from the toe:
COM: 315 mm
COP: 225 mm
Node 1: 180 mm
Node 2: 115 mm

« Last Edit: August 26, 2021, 08:44:26 PM by marsbug »
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marsbug

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Re: First home made bat - designed by artificial intelligence
« Reply #43 on: August 24, 2021, 02:04:59 PM »

What was the outcome of that exercise?

I'm paraphrasing, but basically, the alogrithms found the same overall shapes that bats already have. So with more weight towards the toe. It's not surprising, but nice to see that the natural evolution of the bat over time (admittedly with a few jumps in designs and rule changes) has come towards the best overall shape. One of the interesting differences is in the smaller, complex shapes that might not be that easy to do with the simpler traditional methods, but could be done with a CNC. I'm trying to see how much of a difference these make, as it might look huge on a graph, but the difference might only be a few millimetres. Which I would definitely not notice as I swung and missed again!
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InternalTraining

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Re: First home made bat - designed by artificial intelligence
« Reply #44 on: August 24, 2021, 02:37:48 PM »

I'm paraphrasing, but basically, the alogrithms found the same overall shapes that bats already have. So with more weight towards the toe.


Sounds like the TEndulkar profile.
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