Topic: ENG vs IND series (Read 170199 times)

Mtown Don · « **Reply #1305 on:** February 26, 2021, 05:48:59 PM »

Quote from: Bats_Entertainment on February 26, 2021, 05:22:36 PM

As does the problem as developing batsmen who can occupy the cease for long periods of time. But we're not allowed to talk about either.

Just keep shouting out new names and hope the problem will go away.

This is just disingenuous. I lurk on this forum a fair bit and have never seen people denying that the Championship being pushed to each end of the season is a barrier to developing these traits. But once you�ve agreed that, what is the point of repeating it over and over? It�s not as though the ECB are going to be browsing the CustomBats forum for ideas on how to reinvent the domestic season. People naturally pick teams because that is something tangible that could be changed on the spot, I think it would be a bit boring if they spent the time discussing how many Championship games should be played in August over and over again.

Addressing the actual point, I�m sure that the domestic season is structured with the aim of achieving the best balance between commercial viability of the counties and player development, also bearing in mind the impact of switching between formats on the latter. I know that you don�t like the fact that first class cricket doesn�t attract the same revenue as limited overs but it is the reality and you can�t push the format which people pay to watch into the margins of the season where they won�t to further subsidise the format that they generally don�t. Yes it�s not the perfect solution for the Test team but the ECB compensates for this with Lions tours and camps which build experience and skill in the kinds of conditions that are difficult to replicate in England.

Ok, the end result is that England haven�t acquitted themselves perfectly in India but looking back eight years shows you that nobody else has either. None of the other nations have developed a spinner who has excelled in India (apart from Steve O�Keefe!). The system still creates batsmen such as Burns and Sibley who are equipped to bat for long periods of time, just not on raging turners in India on their first tours there (like pretty much every non-generational batting talent that has been there for years).

Apologies for the long rant - I�m really not a sycophantic England supporter and I don�t pretend that they get everything right, I just find the relentless negativity in the face of cold hard reality a little difficult to read over and over again.

Mtown Don · « **Reply #1306 on:** February 26, 2021, 05:53:20 PM »

Quote from: blindowl on February 26, 2021, 05:48:26 PM

Interesting viewpoint, I fully accept it but I was actually thinking the exact opposite. For me, Foakes' glovework looked outstanding every time I turned the cricket on (to be fair I did not watch all of the matches so I may have missed some howlers?). I would be nailing foakes name to the teamsheet for the foreseeable. I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a keeper standing up to a frontline English seamer like he did with broad (Jack Russell maybe?).

Maybe time to try the old fashioned approach of the best 5 batters, the best 5 bowlers and a proper keeper.

I think that unless his batting really becomes a liability, which based on his record and performances to date for England should be unlikely, then he should be a nailed on starter for years - but then I thought that before he got dropped the last time so who knows?!

alba caerulea · « **Reply #1307 on:** February 26, 2021, 06:09:22 PM »

Quote from: Mtown Don on February 26, 2021, 05:48:59 PM

This is just disingenuous. I lurk on this forum a fair bit and have never seen people denying that the Championship being pushed to each end of the season is a barrier to developing these traits. But once you�ve agreed that, what is the point of repeating it over and over? It�s not as though the ECB are going to be browsing the CustomBats forum for ideas on how to reinvent the domestic season. People naturally pick teams because that is something tangible that could be changed on the spot, I think it would be a bit boring if they spent the time discussing how many Championship games should be played in August over and over again.

Addressing the actual point, I�m sure that the domestic season is structured with the aim of achieving the best balance between commercial viability of the counties and player development, also bearing in mind the impact of switching between formats on the latter. I know that you don�t like the fact that first class cricket doesn�t attract the same revenue as limited overs but it is the reality and you can�t push the format which people pay to watch into the margins of the season where they won�t to further subsidise the format that they generally don�t. Yes it�s not the perfect solution for the Test team but the ECB compensates for this with Lions tours and camps which build experience and skill in the kinds of conditions that are difficult to replicate in England.

Ok, the end result is that England haven�t acquitted themselves perfectly in India but looking back eight years shows you that nobody else has either. None of the other nations have developed a spinner who has excelled in India (apart from Steve O�Keefe!). The system still creates batsmen such as Burns and Sibley who are equipped to bat for long periods of time, just not on raging turners in India on their first tours there (like pretty much every non-generational batting talent that has been there for years).

Apologies for the long rant - I�m really not a sycophantic England supporter and I don�t pretend that they get everything right, I just find the relentless negativity in the face of cold hard reality a little difficult to read over and over again.

Well said. I agree with that whole post!

Bats_Entertainment · « **Reply #1308 on:** February 26, 2021, 06:38:59 PM »

There you go. It's 'too boring'.

If only people were as easily bored by the 'financial necessity' lie.

Mtown Don · « **Reply #1309 on:** February 26, 2021, 06:57:05 PM »

Quote from: Bats_Entertainment on February 26, 2021, 06:38:59 PM

There you go. It's 'too boring'.

If only people were as easily bored by the 'financial necessity' lie.

Glad I wasted the time to write a reasoned post to get a reductive one liner in response!

It�s not too boring for me. I�ve attended all but two home Championship games at the Ageas bowl in a season before.

But if you want to ignore reality because you don�t like it then so be it.

Bats_Entertainment · « **Reply #1310 on:** February 26, 2021, 07:01:03 PM »

Quote from: Mtown Don on February 26, 2021, 06:57:05 PM

But if you want to ignore reality because you don�t like it then so be it.

That'll be the 'no magic money tree' reality.

Kulli · « **Reply #1311 on:** February 26, 2021, 07:30:04 PM »

Quote from: AJ2014 on February 26, 2021, 03:40:02 PM

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cricket/joe-root-england-india-ahmedabad-pitch-b1807833.html

The weight of Indian media saw it differently, while the top-scorer of the match, Rohit Sharma, went as far as calling it �a nice pitch to bat on�.

Talk about singing form the same hymn sheet, not a word on it from a commentator or a player. The BCCI propaganda machine run a tight ship!

ppccopener · « **Reply #1312 on:** February 26, 2021, 07:43:51 PM »

Quote from: Kulli on February 26, 2021, 07:30:04 PM

The weight of Indian media saw it differently, while the top-scorer of the match, Rohit Sharma, went as far as calling it �a nice pitch to bat on�.

Talk about singing form the same hymn sheet, not a word on it from a commentator or a player. The BCCI propaganda machine run a tight ship!

Of course they have, but after the first test which.yes may of been a placid track but India lost, Kholi and Co threw the toys out and low and behold it's dust bombs for the next two matches.

The problem for us fans is .....we complain about e pitch and it's just because we lost. I'm actually glad Root has stopped short of mentioning the pitch, dead batting to those responsible.

We are away, we are going to get tracks that suit India. End of the day they have gone to extreames to do it.

Fair enough, we need to play spin better. Perhaps instead England should cut out some series and play in Bangladesh, India and Pakistan more often. I think the one day side has a tour to Pakistan coming up.

SD · « **Reply #1313 on:** February 26, 2021, 07:45:49 PM »

I don't see any value in wholesale changes for the final test. England without question got their team selection wrong and will need to address that but, with neutral match officials, England could have easily taken a first innings lead. I don't think any batsman from either team can be judged on what is the worst surface I have seem for a test match since the abandoned teat at Sabina Park

Buzz · « **Reply #1314 on:** February 26, 2021, 07:55:21 PM »

I think how bad the ball was had as much to do with it as the pitch. The fact that it skidded so much and shot off the pitch had a huge influence on the number of LBWs.

SD · « **Reply #1315 on:** February 26, 2021, 08:00:16 PM »

Quote from: Buzz on February 26, 2021, 07:55:21 PM

I think how bad the ball was had as much to do with it as the pitch. The fact that it skidded so much and shot off the pitch had a huge influence on the number of LBWs.

This image of 6 balls from the same over shows just just how impossible any sort of proper batting was. No criticism whatsoever of any batsman getting out on that

ppccopener · « **Reply #1316 on:** February 26, 2021, 08:11:30 PM »

Quote from: SD on February 26, 2021, 07:45:49 PM

I don't see any value in wholesale changes for the final test. England without question got their team selection wrong and will need to address that but, with neutral match officials, England could have easily taken a first innings lead. I don't think any batsman from either team can be judged on what is the worst surface I have seem for a test match since the abandoned teat at Sabina Park

England got it wrong but the problem is Bess being jettisoned, we needed a second proper spinner, it looked like our seamers would do well under lights with a ball that moved more. I actually thought our seamers would win us this game, it def didn't work out that way.....

They recall Bess after public ally saying to go away and get better(which with no matches he cannot do) or throw Virdi in as a debut in an important series, or Parkinson.

We need a second spinner, who do they pick? I dunno what's happened with Bess but if he is physically fit he plays.

Maybe he told Ed Smith to stick his cravat up his (No Swearing Please)

shadowlight · « **Reply #1317 on:** February 26, 2021, 08:50:06 PM »

Quote from: FattusCattus on February 26, 2021, 09:39:42 AM

I'm thinking the series win has gone. The most likely set-up for the last test is a featherbed or raging bunsen.

We know what several England players can or can't do - Burns / Bairstow / Broad etc show us nothing new. Stokes' bowling seems pretty pointless over there and they seem to be limiting how much he bowls so he's a batter only - I can't see that we need any more than 2 seamers for the last test, so let's rest a couple of the old warhorses and give some youngsters as chance to shine, to do something brilliant and uninhibited.

I say pick:

Sibley
Crawley
Root
Lawrence
Stokes
Pope
Foakes
Woakes
Leach
Stone
Bess / Virdi / Crane - whomever is bowling best in nets.

Decent batting down to 8, 2.5 seamers and 3.5 spinners

That lineup can't do any worse surely?

If England is going to try youngster I would replace Lawrence with Bracey and bat him at 3, with Root staying at 4.

Jimbo · « **Reply #1318 on:** February 26, 2021, 09:01:55 PM »

Quote from: shadowlight on February 26, 2021, 08:50:06 PM

If England is going to try youngster I would replace Lawrence with Bracey and bat him at 3, with Root staying at 4.

Pretty horrible debut for a leftie facing Ashwin on Indian pitches.

Mtown Don · « **Reply #1319 on:** February 26, 2021, 09:02:04 PM »

Quote from: Buzz on February 26, 2021, 07:55:21 PM

I think how bad the ball was had as much to do with it as the pitch. The fact that it skidded so much and shot off the pitch had a huge influence on the number of LBWs.

I don�t disagree but watching the 2nd innings and Root�s dismissal in particular, I did wonder in reality how easy it is for batsmen to persistently play for the straight ball when it is also turning and bouncing sharply. Root would have been consciously well aware of the threat of the ball skidding on and had seemed fairly clear-headed in his approach prior so it was a surprise that he made that mistake and I don�t think it would have been a conscious decision to play for turn. As you point out, the skid then made it impossible to cover it once it pitched and went straight on - it does make you wonder how often batsmen are normally bailed out by a late movement of the bat as well.

Having said that, his decision to go back in the first innings was strange as well so possibly less clear in his mindset than I think.

One thing that has been touched on earlier in the thread is why England were so keen to use the sweep and reverse rather than try to get down the track and hit straight given the ball was skidding on but I guess that is partly fear of being stumped with a couple of balls turning sharply each over and partly the success that Root in particular has had with that method recently. I do think that the impact of the general chaos and speed with which this game moved on has been downplayed, England had very little time to get their head around what the ball and pitch were doing. You could send that even Cook and Strauss in the studio were flustered trying to come up with the best approach to batting to win the game.

Author Topic: ENG vs IND series (Read 170199 times)

Mtown Don

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Mtown Don

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alba caerulea

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Bats_Entertainment

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Mtown Don

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Bats_Entertainment

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Kulli

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ppccopener

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SD

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Buzz

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SD

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ppccopener

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shadowlight

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Jimbo

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Mtown Don

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