Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Players => Topic started by: FvanN on February 04, 2014, 06:10:21 PM
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Not selected for the WI trip or the T20 world cup.. pity...I think that might be it for the man... :(
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England wont win without him, most talented batsmen England have. Shame. I see Giles as the future doom of the national team
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he is bar far the best player surely they should find a way to work together, then they would stand a better chance of winning
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just heard this news, not sure what planet the powers that be are on. KP is our best batsman in every format of the game, and the idea of leaving him out in favour of Michael Lumb is just heresy. If there are personality issues with Cook...well,lets face it, he won't be skipper for much longer.
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It's getting annoying. Ow all this 'personality' 'must be mates' crap. Do we all get on well with everyone we work with ? I know I don't but you are working so you do your best, smile, and crack on.
At the end of the day cricket is what all these do as a job, nothing more, nothing less.. So be bloody professional and get the funk on with it.
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agree - one of my lads at work is an absolute pr**k but he is damned excellent at his job. Which matters more to me? the latter, every single day of the week.
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He must have done something pretty serious.
I doubt the selectors and senior management would have taken that decision lightly at all.
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agree - one of my lads at work is an absolute pr**k but he is damned excellent at his job. Which matters more to me? the latter, every single day of the week.
Absolutely correct.
A lack of tolerance for a different type of character?
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He must have done something pretty serious.
I doubt the selectors and senior management would have taken that decision lightly at all.
He did.. He's KP :) #BlameKP
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Absolutely correct.
A lack of tolerance for a different type of character?
exactly - the big failing of the whole Team England ethos has been its lack of inclusion for anyone who is not either the quiet posh type (Strauss, Cook) or the Twitter generation lads on the Playstation type (Anderson, Broad, Swann, Bresnan, Finn, Bell, Root). Michael Vaughan was a great man manager and could get those types to get along with the boozier Flintoff and Harmison and the fame hungry KP, but that seems to have died out and now...
...aside from the fact that we seem to be p*****g away another three years of one of the great talents of English batting at a time when we are precious short of talent for anything more than mindless accumulation, you can see the way that the nonconformist likes of Ravi Bopara, Monty Panesar, Graeme Onions and Jonny Bairstow have been messed around and compare it with the repeated help and chances given to Finn, Broad and Co. Whether any of those four are capable of being top class test players I don't know. I do know that we should have seen better proof one way or the other.
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This will be a sad day remember,
It will see the end of a great English batsmen international career
And it will see the end of any chance of England winning anything for atleast 5years.
#gilesout
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trust England to kick there best player out of the team.
Every other cricket team must be happy no KP.
KP will earn more outside the England team anyway
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What a farce
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Time will tell. Huge loss from the test team.
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So weve lost Trott and Swann and are already struggling to score runs....of course the obvious option is to cast out the top run scorer during the Ashes and "rebuild".
Due to be in london on monday meeting KP so will wait to see if that still goes ahead.
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what an absolute joke.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/26040475 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/26040475)
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i for one wont be watching any english cricket for a long time now.
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Poor management >:(
KP is still a top batsman, i rate him in world top 5 if not 3 .
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Thought gayle summed it up well:
"Was really looking for the hype of having @KP24 in the caribbean, would be big tickets sales for us. #Sad - Learn to MANAGE Big Names!!"
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Strange it's a decision made by management, not by the new coach
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Not KPs biggest fan as a person but the fact they can't accommodate him is a failure of the management not his.
Just shows how important a great captain is...
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Very sad day for English cricket. KP still had plenty to offer in all 3 formats of the game.
Good luck KP !
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Chris Rodgers - 36, Brad Haddin - 36... Brad Hodge is 39!!!! Are THEY past it?!
Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater!!! >:( ...And I am someone who thinks Pietersen has made some seriously stupid mistakes in his career.
Also reading the ECB statements, welcome back 1990s management... All we need now is a Giles and Gooch management team and we might as well change our whites to 'beige'!
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Coaches in this country lack the ability to deal with anyone who has a 'big' personality, it's embarrassing.
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ECB is making such a big deal with Flower and Pietersen incident, ok they fallen apart, so what? Flower stepped down, surely Pietersen stays?? Highest run scorers across all format together and the most experience player in the team just got dropped? makes no sense...
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I wish journos wouldn't keep on with the line 'I know something you don't know'. Report it, don't play the big I am.
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According to Piers Morgan (KP close friend) He's been given no reason for his sacking.
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ECB have obviously been reading Ijaz Butt's guide to management & PR relations.
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Joke decision again by the ecb , there won't be players like kp seen in our generation again
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Joke decision again by the ecb , there won't be players like kp seen in our generation again
Best since Botham.
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Also reading the ECB statements, welcome back 1990s management... All we need now is a Giles and Gooch management team and we might as well change our whites to 'beige'!
I for one would welcome that change!
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NZ have done that with much greater élan.
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Grrrrrrrrrrr
Am pretty sure an admin says he knows downton, and he was a sound guy. This clearly shows not!
He needs sorting out. Can see this as the beggining of the end for English cricket,
I expect even Bangladesh to be ranked higher than is in all formats within 3 years.
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I suppose there are bright sides. Ipl and big bash will be better for his full presence.
Surrey will get promoted when he slaps count bowlers around for fun. And surely ticket sales will go up, knowing you'll get to watch kp bat for atleast a day in the 2nd division!
Bad things are, division 2 county bowlers are gonna have a real dent int here averages, and probably confidence.
The ipl team will have to bid a lot more for him.
And of course.
England will be so poor, poor poor poor
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Do you really think he'll play for Slurry?
May even choose CPL over te English nonsense too in my opinion.
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I personally feel we're all over reacting to the consequences of this a bit and for something like this to happen the management must feel it really is necessary for the team to progress :-[.
Piers Morgan continuing to annoy me on twitter by talking about stuff he probably only has half a clue about anyway :D.
Edit : Pietersen's never been a man for counties (I remember when he was given time to play for Hampshire by the ECB and jetted off on some holiday somewhere around the world instead) so I doubt he'll play for Surrey although perhaps in the shorter formats?
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There should be a rationale supplied by the ECB.
It's essentially a commie show trial otherwise.
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Irrespective of his quality and ability to change the game he will be always be remembered as a tit who divided the dressing room with his ego.
As Boycott said they didnt like me but they liked my runs.
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Irrespective of his quality and ability to change the game he will be always be remembered as a tit who divided the dressing room with his ego.
Does anyone really doubt that Broad has been and probably is at least as big of a tit?
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Does anyone really doubt that Broad has been and probably is at least as big of a tit?
Except he hasn't (as far as we've seen) divided the dressing room so much and caused so much of a problem within the team and its management.
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I personally feel we're all over reacting to the consequences of this a bit and for something like this to happen the management must feel it really is necessary for the team to progress :-[.
Interesting form of progress when you get rid of your top run scorer and most proven destroyer of attacks, especially at key moments - 2005 at the Oval? Adelaide x 2? That knock in India? Anyone see Titch Taylor or Varun Chopra managing even one of those in the back garden against their Mothers?
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Except he hasn't (as far as we've seen) divided the dressing room so much and caused so much of a problem within the team and its management.
wasn't the noises we were getting a couple of years back!
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Interesting form of progress when you get rid of your top run scorer and most proven destroyer of attacks, especially at key moments - 2005 at the Oval? Adelaide x 2? That knock in India? Anyone see Titch Taylor or Varun Chopra managing even one of those in the back garden against their Mothers?
That 140 odd vs Saffers at headingley?
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I didn't state anything about his performances, just he may be holding back and/or disrupting the rest of the team.
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I've never been a Kevin Pietersen fan, but appreciated what he brought to world cricket(unfortunately the wrong country...), but his sacking of pathetic.
The only world class batsman England have had in the last 10-15 years.
England's loss will be IPL/BBL/CT20/Ram Slam's gain.
👏👏👏 KP you've thrilled and you deserved a lot better.
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wasn't the noises we were getting a couple of years back!
Except he's clearly settled his problems now. KP has caused constant problems that he's been unable to solve with nearly every team he's been with through his career.
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Madness! Don't see any decent reason for this, especially in the absence of an appointed head coach. Also makes Giles look very 2 faced - only a month or so ago KP was a "million pound asset"
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Do you think Giles had any real say?
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Good thing England proposed not being relegated from a test cricket two division structure if it means that they are going to stick with this policy of not picking their best players
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I don't know. I think there has to be something going on behind the scenes that we don't know about.
It's a huge decision to make, and presumably something to do with his disruptiveness and not his playing ability.
Moores, Strauss and now Flower (if rumours are to be believed). Perhaps the new management simply decided they can't (or shouldn't) put the effort to 'manage' him and want to work with more malleable players?
Anyone any idea what the shortlist of coaching applicants is?
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My guesses are Flower really did make a him or me suggestion like KP did with Moores and the ECB decided to get rid of them both or KP insisted on playing in the full IPL season
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That 140 odd vs Saffers at headingley?
aye, that too, though I was mostly looking at winning causes, save Adelaide 1.
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On the other hand some of the top teams never agreed or got along in the dressing room but they played as a unit and gave everything.
Cristiano Ronaldo is a good comparison, egoistical, arrogant, supremely talented and a matchwinner but would he ever get dropped by Madrid?
The miserable old boys in the ECB might have got their own ego entangled in this mess. Its a bloody farce.
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His one-five-one last time we were in Sri Lanka then? :)
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Morgan on twitter "I wonder if @MattPrior13 will now reveal what he said in England team meeting after Melbourne Test about Flower?" the proverbial may be about to hit the fan.
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That wasn't up for long...
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That wasn't up for long...
He took it down?
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Hey - we've not got a bad cast-offs team now!
Compton
Trott
KP*
Taylor
Bopara
Morgan
Prior +
Woakes
Kerrigan
Onions
Finn
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What about Fat Sam?
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His Mrs is RT'ing the Morgan tweets about no reason being provided for the sacking.
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Take what Morgan says with a pinch of salt - he's nothing but a trumped up, overpaid, lucky hack of the lowest order. He's arguably one of the reasons KP's in the situation he's in - poor advice from people looking to make money out of him; that never ends well for sportsmen.
Atherton on Sky Sports right now - "KP found himself without any friends/allies." I think that's bang on the money and I'd much rather get his opinion than Piers Morgan. Or Bob Willis for that matter.
I do agree it's all about things that have happened that we know nothing about - the ECB place a lot of focus on team harmony. And part of being a top player is being part of a team. Its a team sport and one of the skills you need as a player. IF he started to affect other players performances (I'm speculating, don't shoot me down!), then that team ethos is damaged. The key words in the ECB statement are 'getting back to team ethics...'
I think its really sad. Yet another gifted player across English sports that we don't seem able to manage. It has to be something ingrained in our national psyche that we seem to shoot down and mis-manage mercurial talents...
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Does this mean compton is coming back?
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Micheal Vaughan on radio 5.
"The hardest thing I found to manage, was his haircut"
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How about the inability to drive the complementary Jags, rocking up in his Ferrari??
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Doesn't matter how big of a tit he is, he's Englands best player! His ego, arrogance whatever you wana call it has got to managed correctly, and Flower didn't do that, nor has Cook. Shell of side without firstly Trott, and now him.
How do you think Fattus's team put with his ego? it's all about man management.
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There is clearly a lot that we don't know that's happened here. I'm not in favour of it per se, but then, I'm certain that cook is not the man manager that Vaughan was, and I'm not certain that they're is that in the England set up at the moment.
I reckon there's a lot more to come out...
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There is clearly a lot that we don't know that's happened here. I'm not in favour of it per se, but then, I'm certain that cook is not the man manager that Vaughan was, and I'm not certain that they're is that in the England set up at the moment.
I reckon there's a lot more to come out...
On current form and if rumours are to be believed, Prior won't play again, Ron Weasley will get one more tour before being disposed of, Root will be in and out/up and down the order until they get bored of him not performing and I dread to think who else will be disposed of/bought in.
England getting stuffed in the Ashes, questionable selection policies, it's almost like a return to the 90's!
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Huge call from the ECB,KP has been disruptive at every team.i was on a tour of trent bridge last year and was told in all the years they'd never seen such an ego and problem player
The question is we have always had these players
Is it a failure to manage him or is he really such a problem?
I have a feeling we are going to find in the press
They will be all over this and the ECB will be the target
Big decision
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KP is box office.
Plain and simple.
Don't care about the rest.
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It's ok we got Joe Root
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I think he will be back.
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Hope he is best English batsman of a generation
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I see his father in law every day so will ask him.
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We want him in the T20 World Cup mate.
That's the show case event.
Why was he in the 30 man squad, just buying themselves some time.
Mediocre cricketers running the show now.
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Rampant speculation ahead...
Isn't mick newell linked with eng coach job. Could be paving the way for him to step in (think he was at notts for KP's one season)
Don't the look of the team without KP, but there must be something big behind the scenes. Ecb surely aren't dumb enough to cut their noses off...
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I blame crap leadership I really do from the top .
Yes kp has a ego yes he is at time I have no doubt a bit of a tit but this is ment to be a national side surely leadership at the top is t blame for not sorting this out and the whole organization is a joke. World class cricket deserves world class leadership at the top
I will use the Liverpool situation last year look at Suarez he wanted to leave he wanted to do this that and the other. Great leadership pulled that round leadership at the top. And no I do not like Liverpool
I think the decision makes it feel like a school yard selection this is supposed to be picking the best so what is going on.
Joke organization
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But 6 months ago we had just won the ashes and we were in the top 3 in the world, we had one of the best coaches in the world in Flower, a young captain who was breaking all England batting records and would go on and break even more. We had the best keeper batsman in the world, number 1 bowler in the world etc etc.
So don't think its a Joke organisation, just going through a very very difficult period.
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The writing on the wall when the story of either him or me surfaced and the last last rumbles.
What your best player is no longer wanted
Your coach who basically says I will continue but not with him then walks.
Say it anyway you like it currently it is a joke.
Who next kit of Spain think I could be saving some money by not going
I hold on Pujara is coming over guess there some light
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atherton on sky news saying cook will have been the key voice in kps removal.
which to me says. cook isn't good enough to be in charge.
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Team harmony?
Team have to be mates?
Team sport?
Did the great Aussie side all like each other? He'll no, but they played together. Did all the great Wi like each other? Probably not...
Utter rubbish. Yes it is at the amateur level, because whether you play ECB prem or div 298 you are there for fun. These players are professionals, it's their bloody job! I don't care If flower hates KP, it's not his job to tel me he's a prat, it's his job to manage said prat and coach him to the benefit of England.
KP I've no doubt has an ego on him, but by god he's are best batsmen. It's just ridiculous. ECB are just bean counters laughing all the way to the bank. Crap leadership, crap organisation of the game in general. In it for the cash rather than the game.
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You can imagine the Ecb now thinking oh it only Sri Lanka and India bowling this summer surely a couple of batsman will come through against there lack luster attacks.
No disrespect ment to India and Sri Lanka followers there either
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Hey - we've not got a bad cast-offs team now!
Compton
Trott
KP*
Taylor
Bopara
Morgan
Prior +
Woakes
Kerrigan
Onions
Finn
Not sure about Piers Morgan at 6 Fattus, thought he was dreadful against Lee in Melbourne ;)
I personally think there's more to this. England have tolerated KP for years, do you think he's got worse as I can't see it? I know he's got a lot of business interests going on now as he's clearly thinking about life after cricket, his bars, clothing range etc so not sure if this has been a factor? Like when Sir Alex lost his rag with Ferdinand...
Either way Englands management have to look at this and see the timing is all wrong, Trott is on hiatus, Cook and Prior can't buy a run, they don't know what to do with Root - so we drop our highest scoring batsman of the last tour? Ridiculous....
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Why are the ECB still pushing this "broken dressing room" line onto us? What could KP have possibly done/said to completely destroy Cook's ability to judge which balls to leave and which to hit, Carberry's ability to catch along with Jimmy and Swanny's ability to take wickets. Was it also his fault that England brought along 3 out-of-form 6ft+ bowlers, an injured "all-rounder", a part-time wicket-keeper with an existing technical issue and just one back-up batsmen who had faced just 2 balls at international level.. Whilst knowing that they had a batsman with an existing mental illness..
KP was England's leading scorer in this disastrous Ashes series just like he was in 06-07, and what is his reward for actually performing with some spirit whilst everybody around him failed? He's been thrown under the bus. The ECB have scapegoated KP to avoid people questioning the ridiculous decisions that were made when deciding on the touring party.. Disgraceful.
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Feels like we are going back too the 90's style of ECB,they dont have a clue with anything.I for one think England will be spiraling down again to utter rubbish.What the hell has happened? Its scary how quickly this has blown up in such a short space of time.
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Team harmony?
Team have to be mates?
Team sport?
Did the great Aussie side all like each other? He'll no, but they played together. Did all the great Wi like each other? Probably not...
Utter rubbish. Yes it is at the amateur level, because whether you play ECB prem or div 298 you are there for fun. These players are professionals, it's their bloody job! I don't care If flower hates KP, it's not his job to tel me he's a prat, it's his job to manage said prat and coach him to the benefit of England.
KP I've no doubt has an ego on him, but by god he's are best batsmen. It's just ridiculous. ECB are just bean counters laughing all the way to the bank. Crap leadership, crap organisation of the game in general. In it for the cash rather than the game.
How professional was it to text info about Strauss to the SA team?
Good on the ECB for showing that one person is not bigger than the game.
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I hope KP scores loads in the IPL and millions of runs for Surrey in all forms. His innings against Steyn and Morkel with live long in my memory. Such a class player and I still can't imagine an England team without KP doing well. Can anyone else think of a player still in good form being effectively retired by his country with no replacement?
Huge mistake England.
http://youtu.be/aLp2QsaOvcI (http://youtu.be/aLp2QsaOvcI)
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Wonder if kp just told cook he was a s@@t skipper
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Sounds like what happened to poor old Katich...maybe KP gave Cook one for being a s*** skipper :)
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Katich is the stand out..
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That 149 against SA was a brilliant knock. KP at his imperious best....
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After the ashes tour, what leg do these 'senior' players have to stand on to say we don't want KP???
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According to Morgan on Sky,
Pietersen asked why he was getting sacked.
ECB responded with "for cricketing reasons" In what sense is Luke Wright a better option at 3 in the world T20?
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The paying public should boycott England matches this coming season.
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Pretty gutted about this - watching KP in the 2005 Ashes was what got me properly into cricket. One of the very best batsman for me, his ability to turn a game around in a session or two makes him a huge asset. Feels like Pietersen and Flower have been made scapegoats for the disastrous tour. Will be interesting to see how England get along without KP and if they make another U turn at some point....
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England's Cricket hierarchy have lost there marbles
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Surely he wont go back and play 4 day stuff for Surrey, he'll just travel the world playing T20?
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This is a horrendous decision...
Hope KP keeps playing T20's, get into a fringe ODI/T20 side and come back to wallop England.
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This is a horrendous decision...
Hope KP keeps playing T20's, get into a fringe ODI/T20 side and come back to wallop England.
That would be amusing, fins some Irish relative and then play for them.. Come back and smash saviour broad (you know, that young arrogant petulant child)!around a bit more.. Oh and gobby Anderson.. Maybe show up our spinners for the dog toffee they are too.
The guys no saint but pro sport isn't about being mates, getting on. It's about cricket, about winning and at some point entertainment.
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skyrocketed KPs value at the IPL auction. strange decision by ECB.
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KP is one of the most divisive players of all time. Every time KP got out playing an expansive shot people on here and elsewhere moaned vigourosly and called for him to be dropped. Now that he has been dropped everybody is up in arms about it. Calling for a boycott of England matches is pathetic, support your team through thick and thin or don't bother.
Who was Chelsea's best player last season? Juan Mata, this season left out by Jose and then sold and they seem to be doing alright.
The bottom line is that KP is 34 not 24, he is in the twilight of his career and has had a knee problem which means he is no longer the greatest mover in the field. The decision has been made so lets move on and support the team.
I would have been happy if he'd have been involved for another couple of years as he has been a wonderful player but equally I'm looking forward to a new generation of players making their mark as this England team evolves. This is the cyclical nature of sport.
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i havent read all 5 pages of this as i dont have the time but am i one of the only people who doesnt blame the ECB for this or think its not a bad decision? I agree KP has been outstanding for a number of years and on his day he would take apart any team but we havent seen that day for a while. The Ashes test matches in Aus showed that whatever it is something isnt right with KP, the England team and or management. Dancing down the track in a test match when your struggling and hitting the ball straight into the waiting trap is just idiotic from a senior player. Sounds like someone getting too overconfident or big for their boots. Seems far more interested in T20 than playing proper cricket. He Doesnt play for the team and has a history of issues spread across his career. it cant be all innocent can it as he is the common factor in all the issues. Notts, Hants, peter moores, Saffagate and anything else we feel we need to add.
Id happily take the old KP back - 4-5 years ago when he was scoring runs and looked world class but that isnt going to happen. the england team have made the decision and i have to agree with them. the team needs rebuilding and sorting out from the mess we are in. he would probably only be playing another year maybe 2 at a push. lets move on, rebuild a team and support them. we probably wont find another KP but lets not make him a martyr. hes been a great servant of the game and for england but if his attitude sucks and causes issues then he has to go. onwards and upwards.
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Yup, I'm with inkers and not overly upset about this myself. I do fall on the side of disliking his perceived divisiveness. His PR utterances are a disaster, his clashes with coaches and other players unhelpful and the texts about Strauss were awful.
I respect all you guys bemoaning the loss of him as our best player, but for me he's not English and I can live without him - one guy should never be bigger than an international team.
I agree it's been handled terribly and the ECB look like muppets, but long term for me it's not a problem not to have him.
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May as well sack the lot of them then because they were all crap in the latest ashes... All except Stokes
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He may have been divisive, but I also feel as if individuality is somewhat frowned upon in the English set up - i.e. toe the line. In contrast I think if he was an Aussie for example, alot of his flamboyance would have actually been encouraged (within reason of course). Plus he more often than not backed it up and could win you a match single handedly in any format.
No doubt he was egoistic etc., but most great players are and often they are mavericks. KP is in my opinion an easy scapegoat - they have just found the right time to pull the trigger and show him the door.
Of course he has not helped himself at times, but I think the situation did not to get to this.
Hopefully it is not the end, as he is one of the most exciting players around, and cricket needs players like him.
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I think there's a difference between being 'individual' and a 'maverick' and being a prize p**ck at times?
The Strauss texts, the Taylor argument, holding the management to ransom over Moores and trying to give up ODI cricket on his own terms, that's more than being a little different.
Why should various captains and coaches have to manage that all the time - they have enough to do. Perhaps he could have got his head down and been flamboyant and individual on the pitch.
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Firstly, I don't agree with the Strauss text saga, if ever was a time to get rid of kp, that time was then.
People talk about him being an issue players/personality, and always talk about the same issues, how his ego created them blah blah blah.
Taylor- kp said he's rubbish- hasn't played cricket for England since
Moores - kp said he's rubbish - Moores fired as coach
Etc etc
It's funny there bemoaned, but generally kps point is adhered too?
To me it just looks like kp isn't a yes man, and says what he see's, in and old fashioned short and the kind off world that isn't liked. But his is 2014, we need more people that aren't brown noses, and are willing to say there mind.
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Say day indeed...... For Peter Siddle. No more easy ASHES wickets!
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Dancing down the track in a test match when your struggling and hitting the ball straight into the waiting trap is just idiotic from a senior player. Sounds like someone getting too overconfident or big for their boots.
Ian Bell did exactly this first ball of his innings - why does he get away without the critisism that KP gets (and its not the first time he has done it??? KP gets more runs than Bell, wins more games than Bell (nothing against Bell just using him as an example) - surely that is what cricket is about??
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Ian Bell did exactly this first ball of his innings - why does he get away without the critisism that KP gets (and its not the first time he has done it??? KP gets more runs than Bell, wins more games than Bell (nothing against Bell just using him as an example) - surely that is what cricket is about??
Also Bell clearly wants to play IPL cricket by putting himself in the auction, why again is KP singled out for this? He's obviously not done himself many favours at times but i do feel he is criticised unfairly over certain things
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There's no doubt that KP behaves like an idiot a times, on the field and off, but to get rid of someone who is still your best batter in a team that is getting routinely thrashed is bizarre and risky. ECB management and Captain are now effectively saying "we now stand a better change of winning as we have sacked our best batter" and I don't think that stands any scrutiny.
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Ian Bell did exactly this first ball of his innings - why does he get away without the critisism that KP gets (and its not the first time he has done it??? KP gets more runs than Bell, wins more games than Bell (nothing against Bell just using him as an example) - surely that is what cricket is about??
im just using that as an example. the trap was set and to play the shot to a seamer was worse than using your feet against a spinner which i believe bell did ( i may be wrong). for me its a combination of things, not just this playing stupid shots. we are all guilty of that at times but to consistantly play the shot and be a pain in the butt isnt right. Bell wins us alot of games, would we have won the ashes in england without KP ( taking their contribution out) - possibly. without Bell - definitely not.
every player goes through lean patches when they keep getting 'that' ball and every run is a struggle. Prior is a prime example. with the exception of the attacking 60 he got or i think one shot where he lent back on a cut. did he play stupid shots. answer was probably no - he was struggling so trying to get bat on ball. can you say the same for KP? i doubt it. I am not singling him out as alot played stupid shots too but a man of his experience and talent should be doing better.
I have nothing against KP or any other england player but the fact is the whole story and history has lead to his downfall. its not based solely on the last few weeks/ ashes tour.
Everyone moans when he plays a stupid shot or thought he was a complete tool with the various issues but as soon as he is not picked hes an angel and the world is against him. you cant have it both ways and unfortunately you cant please everyone. We are in a similar position as the aussies were a few years ago. losing a few big names and not having anything proven to replace it with. they took a little while to get back on their feet. yes most of there issues was caused by greats retiring but they still had to rebuild. do you want to rebuild now and hope to gain the ashes back or wait for another 1-2 years when he then retires and do it all again.
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Like Bulldog, I have a suspicion that we will see KP return at some point.
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Ecb have to explain this desicion in full. They owe it to the fans who are expected to pay £80 for test match tickets. As to why one the most talented and exciting English players won't be involved. I'm yet to hear a valid reason for his forced retirement. You can't "reintegrate" someone then drag all the past issues back up again. Has to be fresh reasons
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I won't defend some of the things he has done - but he has been singled out here (and in the past) for no obvious cricketing reason that I can see. If he is not in the future plans, I am not sure I can see too many of the other guys from the recent tour qualify on merit either. Might as well scrap the lot and start anew if that is the logic.
KP has another 3-4 good years at least, so you can't say his age is an issue. Carberry was allowed to debut and he was 33 if i recall correctly.
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Ecb have to explain this desicion in full. They owe it to the fans who are expected to pay £80 for test match tickets. As to why one the most talented and exciting English players won't be involved. I'm yet to hear a valid reason for his forced retirement. You can't "reintegrate" someone then drag all the past issues back up again. Has to be fresh reasons
This is very true - we as the paying public have to have an explanation of the ECB's decision!!! Imagine the uproar if it was decided Rooney (who has a similar capacity to be a bell end) was not going to be picked any more without an explanation....
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I've allready paid out £120 for two tickets to Lords and was contemplating some tickets to the Oval for the India game too. Of course it wasnt going to watch just KP but not picking their best player (IMO) doesnt sound like the value for money the ECB are charging for these tickets
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Disgusting decision.
The problem between Cricket and Football is that when a football player causes issues they can just sell that player to another club as there will always be a club thats wants him. This means that the player will still be in the public eye and the public can enjoy his performances. When it comes to cricket and the fact teams are international there is no option just to sell him. I bet if you looked at Australia and England as club teams like football teams Australia would buy KP in a heatbeat because he is what they want, in your face and say what he thinks. Just like Warner, Johnson etc. They would also know how to manage him better!
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If they wanted rid of him they should have done it with the whole text saga with the SA team back in 2012.
Funny how this team/dressing room wasnt divided when they were winning isn't it?
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article on the BBC saying that Cook was part of a 3 man panel who sat down with KP on Monday and was instrumental in his sacking.
I have suspicions that KP may have spoke to cook during the ashes about his captaincy and what he felt the team should be doing and Cook didn't like it.
It was known KP used to say to Flower what he thinks England were doing wrong and what they should do.
Sounds like he sang the wrong song to the captain and coach
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If they wanted rid of him they should have done it with the whole text saga with the SA team back in 2012.
Funny how this team/dressing room wasnt divided when they were winning isn't it?
Exactly! Think there is a few using kp as an excuse to cover up their own failures
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article on the BBC saying that Cook was part of a 3 man panel who sat down with KP on Monday and was instrumental in his sacking.
I have suspicions that KP may have spoke to cook during the ashes about his captaincy and what he felt the team should be doing and Cook didn't like it.
It was known KP used to say to Flower what he thinks England were doing wrong and what they should do.
Sounds like he sang the wrong song to the captain and coach
I'd say thats a fair guess. Michael Vaughan has been saying its not true that KP and Cook had a stand up row after Sydney and had to be pulled apart
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cook was said to be instrumental in the 're-integrating' process after straussy, now the ECB would not make this decision without Cook's opinion...that just would'nt happen
so we can presume Cook has had enough and is not prepared to back him any longer.
the thing that get's me about all this is Swann and Prior have said lately KP has been fine, the Surrey boys say he is fine but there is a problem that cannot be solved.
like others on this forum I would have dumped him after textgate and the south africans.
Now? well, we don't know what's happening to tip it over the edge.
some of the press like hussein and athers must know.but for now they are not saying.
Nasser and Atherton were knows as good man managers of difficult characters like thorpe,caddick,gough etc
I think myself the issue is KP's view of him and the team. He has to be part of the team regardless of how good he is.
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Has anybody mentioned this is Gowergate all over again?
Gooch and Gower didn't get on and Gooch left him out of the team to tour India in 92-93 I think? Naturally England got smashed. Gower still had a few more years in him. Certainly as many as Gooch and Gatting who stumbled around Australia in 94/95.
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Having read Steve James excellent book "The Plan" it says that Duncan Fletcher liked to have at least 8 steady players and at most 3 mavericks. He prized the ability of mavericks to open a game up and produce game changing performances but it had to be balanced with the poor performances. His reasoning was any more would make the team unstable on and off the pitch. Sounds to me that Flower/Cook wanted 11 non-mavericks and this is Cook's shot at having the last say. The only person still in control is Cook, England can't afford to lose their Captain. If anything Cook's positioned has been strengthened by the lack of alternatives and changes in personnel. I don't see the ECB/Downton having much say in the matter.
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unless Peter Moores is the preferred candidate to replace flower.
There is no way that KP could work with Moores, who is the only Level 5 cricket coach in the country. His impact on English cricket was to bring Swann and Prior into the England set up as well as Flower as batting coach and some other highlights (as well as not getting on with KP.)
By ditching KP the door becomes wide open for Moores.
p.s. I am not saying he is, or is not the right appointment, but this is an outcome of ditching KP.
I am also hearing that there was a brawl in the Eng dressing room at one point too... KP must have been involved :o
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for those that think Moores got a very raw deal Buzz....it would be seen as 'what comes around goes around'
and justice done.
you could however take the opposite view if KP and Moores had both not been sacked-Flower may not of got the job.He has been our most successful coach.We don't obviously know what Moores would of been like long term.
You may be right the way may be clear for Moores as coach....
and the brawl during the Sydney test is getting some coverage in the press.
One thing is for sure,this is a right bun fight that is going to get worse.
I would suggest myself Cook is lucky to be still in a job..he is not a natural skipper.Shane Warne(hate to say it) but was right last summer
who else would skipper? dont know...
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Moores will never coach England again after Napier. England had just tied a 300+ game and he made them do a fitness session straight after! I don't think it was just KP who fell out with him from then on.
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unless Peter Moores is the preferred candidate to replace flower.
There is no way that KP could work with Moores, who is the only Level 5 cricket coach in the country. His impact on English cricket was to bring Swann and Prior into the England set up as well as Flower as batting coach and some other highlights (as well as not getting on with KP.)
By ditching KP the door becomes wide open for Moores.
p.s. I am not saying he is, or is not the right appointment, but this is an outcome of ditching KP.
I am also hearing that there was a brawl in the Eng dressing room at one point too... KP must have been involved :o
Or Newell at Notts who also didnt get on with KP
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I thought it was gallian that broke his bat and threw his kit off the balcony?
Newell wasnt happy pietersen went to press about it was he?
Anyway, bbc claim it was cooks choice
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/26046932 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/26046932)
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how many years does it take for kp to qualify for SA? :D
ABD and KP would be some combo
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how many years does it take for kp to qualify for SA? :D
ABD and KP would be some combo
That would be something worth watching!!
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Any links to any press reports of this Sydney brawl?
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Any links to any press reports of this Sydney brawl?
http://sportinglife.aol.co.uk/cricket/news/article/22885/9151137/kp-wife-bats-away-cork-claims (http://sportinglife.aol.co.uk/cricket/news/article/22885/9151137/kp-wife-bats-away-cork-claims)
It seems to be coming from Dominic Cork.... i think that says it all really
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Massive twitter row flaring up between Piers Morgan and Matt Prior.
Piers Morgan @piersmorgan 1m
What a ludicrous article > RT @NYMag Piers Morgan insufficiently worshipped for interview with transgender woman [url]http://nym.ag/1fHDQuC[/url] ([url]http://nym.ag/1fHDQuC[/url])
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Piers Morgan @piersmorgan 3m
If you didn't say it @MattPrior13 - then sue me. That should clear things up.
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Piers Morgan @piersmorgan 5m
My sources are rather better than yours.. > RT @legsidelizzy @piersmorgan @MattPrior13 @KP24 I don't believe that I am afraid.
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Piers Morgan @piersmorgan 6m
No, @MattPrior13 stabbed @KP24 right in the back > RT @legsidelizzy @piersmorgan he stood up for him last year to get him back in the side!
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Piers Morgan @piersmorgan 7m
For the record, @MattPrior13 led the England team meeting after Melbourne Test. And slaughtered Flower.
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Piers Morgan @piersmorgan 8m
Actually one of the worst re KP > RT @legsidelizzy @piersmorgan Prior is one of the good guys. Off side to try and bring him into this.
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Piers Morgan @piersmorgan 11m
You stabbed @KP24 in the back @MattPrior13 - yet you agreed with him re Flower's dictator style. Makes you a flaming hypocrite.
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Piers Morgan @piersmorgan 14m
No denial then @MattPrior13 - noted.
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Piers Morgan @piersmorgan 21m
He couldn't lead a Morris dance > RT @dmartyn30 Great article ... Is Cook the right leader? [url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/716589.html[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/716589.html[/url]) … …
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Retweeted by Piers Morgan
Dan Walker @mrdanwalker 26m
Just spoken to an Aussie mate on the blower who spent approximately 92% of the conversation laughing at the state of English cricket
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Piers Morgan @piersmorgan 34m
The younger players in England team love @KP24 . It's the older ones who didn't get IPL deals who resent him - they want his cash & talent.
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Piers Morgan @piersmorgan 38m
Has Paul Downton resigned yet? #DowntonShabby #KPSacked
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Piers Morgan @piersmorgan 41m
Ask him > RT @OllieHolt22 @piersmorgan @MattPrior13 do you think Matt Prior's proud of saying that?
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Piers Morgan @piersmorgan 49m
'Flower's behaving like a headmaster, this is a schoolboy environment. F**K Flower! This is OUR team!' - @MattPrior13 to England team.
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Piers Morgan @piersmorgan 50m
I'm about to tweet what @MattPrior13 told England players in team meeting after Melbourne Test.
Priors reply:
Retweeted by Matt Prior
Sam Peters @Sam_sportsnews 12m
@legsidelizzy interesting KP/Morgan should choose to knife @MattPrior13 1 bloke who stuck up for KP post text-gate. Sums him up I suppose.
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Matt Prior @MattPrior13 14m
...tried my best on and off the field to help the England cricket team. I can hold my head up high in that knowledge! #endof
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Matt Prior @MattPrior13 16m
...which it was meant! There is no story here just an attempt to knock someone who has only ever had the teams best interests at heart and..
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Matt Prior @MattPrior13 17m
...is said in team meetings but all I will say is that Flower, Cook and the rest of my team mates know exactly what I said & the way in..
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Matt Prior @MattPrior13 18m
...or 'hacked' but if not I'd like to see where these words I apparently said have come from? I'm not the kind of person to divelge what...
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Matt Prior @MattPrior13 20m
..setup apart from rumour, gossip and hearsay from certain individuals (most of whom I'd take with a pinch of salt!!) maybe I was recorded..
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Matt Prior @MattPrior13 21m
I don't do this PR, spinning media rubbish but I refuse to be attacked by a bloke that knows very little about what goes on in the England..
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Sorry about the format
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What a pair of Twits! (sic)
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If the ECB cant manage one player, what hope is there for them to manage world cricket?
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Are you suggesting that the ECB wish to run the global game?
Do you not think it's a little unedifying to have Prior and Morgan in an open slanging match on the web - it drags the whole story even lower and begins to not reflect well on KP either. Who lets that sort of information into the hands of Piers Mongman?
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Feel slightly sorry for Prior. If he remained silent would that make him look more guilty?
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This is what makes twitter so interesting, in the old days access to players was ran through an agent rather than them being able to be "contacted" directly.
I fear we may never find out the real truth as a conversation between people can easily be blown out of all proportion when relaying the info. As Brian Moore has said it needs context and a source to be valid.
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This just proves how untouchable the ECB clowns really are. We (the paying/playing and viewing public) should be able to properly influence who is in the ECB but we can't. We end up with old gits, never has beens, has beens and bean counters.
ECB are complete muppets
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This is what makes twitter so interesting, in the old days access to players was ran through an agent rather than them being able to be "contacted" directly.
I fear we may never find out the real truth as a conversation between people can easily be blown out of all proportion when relaying the info. As Brian Moore has said it needs context and a source to be valid.
Ive got a feeling KP will be offered a lot for the a book and once his commitments/contract with the ECB is over or a cooling off period i reckon he'll let rip. Will earn him a ton of cash which is very much his style
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I haven't read this whole post so am not sure if it has been mentioned before but what, if any, are the chances of KP going back to SA to play there? Not even sure if it's possible but KP strikes me as guy that plays the game because he enjoys the challenge rather than be dictated to by the ECB.
Just putting it out there...
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He may go and play there in the off season, particularly t20. I can see him playing the IPL, county t20, CPL, Big Bash / SA t20 tournament as his new schedule
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Ram slam and big bash clash don't they?
Big bash wider reach in terms of TV audience, bigger crowds and more cash. So cans e him picking aus of as personally.
Plus I'm pretty sure I saw a South African on here recently say the ram slam is a dire tournament?
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Yeah thats what i thought and put it as either of them on my list. Cant see he'll have too much interest in 4 day cricket
Maybe he'll go down the beckham route and buy his own IPL franchise :)
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One of the articles on the bbc website said he had said "he was committed to country cricket with surrey next year"
But I can't actually find when and in what interview he apparently said that?
I presume he will play some games for surrey,but I doubt all. T20, pro40, and the 4 day events that do t clash with other tournaments.
Anyone think it will effect his sponsorship with adidaS?
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If he plays a full IPL series Adidas will be delighted.
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Yeah thats what i thought and put it as either of them on my list. Cant see he'll have too much interest in 4 day cricket
Maybe he'll go down the beckham route and buy his own IPL franchise :)
I wouldn't bet against him becoming a Shah Rukh Khan figurehead type. But with someone else supplying the shekels.
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Just a couple of things....
He's England's best batter.
He's pure box office and cricket's an entertainment industry when all said and done. Bums on seats.
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Just a couple of things....
He's England's best batter.
He's pure box office and cricket's an entertainment industry when all said and done. Bums on seats.
No point getting bums on seat if you can't win. Cricket team is there to win games first, raise money second.
He may be the best batsman in some eyes yet if he is bringing multiple people down by whatever means then he is not worth it. If (and is a big if) the reason Cook has been failing is partially due to KP and this solves that problem then good.
One man does not make a team.
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How many players are Anti-KP right now? Swann has just come out in favour in a Sun article, as have numerous ex-team mates inc Vaughan, Warne, Harmison and Simon Jones.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/10620654/Kevin-Pietersens-anti-Andy-Flower-rant-was-the-final-nail-in-his-England-career.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/10620654/Kevin-Pietersens-anti-Andy-Flower-rant-was-the-final-nail-in-his-England-career.html)
If this is correct. I don't see much wrong with what KP did, at least in this case.
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"Instead of netting as they usually would two days before a Test, Cook decided to hold a physical fitness session, having told the team that part of the reason they were losing was because they were not as fit as Australia. After the session Pietersen told Cook that the team were fitter than he had known at any other time in his career and felt that they should have been working on skills instead."
If this is true, it is utterly embarrassing for Cook. If fitness was an issue, what can you possibly gain from holding a physical fitness session 2 days before a test? I would have thought there would be more to lose with the possibility of fatigue and injury. Extra catching and fielding practice would have been a far better idea...
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If that article be true, it sounds very much like they expected him to be a "yes" man after his re integration.
And as soon ashes stepped out of that and gave a view(correct in my opinion) he's been stabbed in the back and shafted.
I ain't a coach, so someone can correct me, but if I had to do something in 2 days that required my fitness levels to be increased by 10%, I very much doubt I'd be able to achieve it?
Plus I doubt it was a fitness issue, that was ripping through the England batting line up. Were they to tired to duck and weave johnstons bouncers?
Nope, I pretty sure they didn't have the technique and needed to practice!
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If anyone can 'get fit' in two days then they are not human, you will. It see an increase in fitness after me hard session, you'll just feel sore, achy as you'll have 'overdone' the muscles and created slight tears.. While they'll repair, it means that for the game you'll be (No Swearing Please).
Aus weren't fitter anyway, it was because they could skittle England on few overs, but their feet up. England DS. Owners and players were pretty much of the field all day,every day.. No wonder they are knackered.
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I'm sure we'll slowly get more info on what this anti-flower rant of KP's contained. Although if Prior actually has said what that buffoon Morgan says he has said then it doesnt sound like KP was the only one having a real go at Flower.
Did anyone listen to the Tuffers and Vaughan show last night? I've just listented to it on the way into work as a podcast, some decent discussion and a few more bits of info that came out of it that i wasnt aware of, defo worth a listen if you ask me
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I'm sure we'll slowly get more info on what this anti-flower rant of KP's contained. Although if Prior actually has said what that buffoon Morgan says he has said then it doesnt sound like KP was the only one having a real go at Flower.
Did anyone listen to the Tuffers and Vaughan show last night? I've just listented to it on the way into work as a podcast, some decent discussion and a few more bits of info that came out of it that i wasnt aware of, defo worth a listen if you ask me
What bits ?
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Nothing major but the meeting lasted 3 minutes, KP asked for specifics and wasnt given any, Cook barely spoke to KP and it was all a bit awkward and embarrassing. There was some stuff about the team meeting too
I knew it was a 3 minute meeting had been publicized but wasnt aware Cook didnt talk to KP throughout it all
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Nothing major but the meeting lasted 3 minutes, KP asked for specifics and wasnt given any, Cook barely spoke to KP and it was all a bit awkward and embarrassing. There was some stuff about the team meeting too
I knew it was a 3 minute meeting had been publicized but wasnt aware Cook didnt talk to KP throughout it all
Cowards way out. I respect Cook as a player and he always seemed like he was a decent chap but IF (as we still don't know everything) he's acted like that then it's just being a ECB brown nosed coward. Stand up for yourself and speak ! If people don't like it, that's their problem.
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The general concensus of the entire program was WHY has this happened
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Bad luck for England if that is the end of KP? To be upfront, he had a poor Ashes series, but who didn't? I suggest a new assessment, look at how the Aussies celebrated when they got a wicket! KP danger man, lucky for us he didn't really get going. Hopefully we can see him back for BBL4?
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there's an article just out on the BBC website
the ECB and Cook are looking worse by the hour
swanny has no reason to lie now he is out of the team....
interesting
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No point getting bums on seat if you can't win. Cricket team is there to win games first, raise money second.
He may be the best batsman in some eyes yet if he is bringing multiple people down by whatever means then he is not worth it. If (and is a big if) the reason Cook has been failing is partially due to KP and this solves that problem then good.
One man does not make a team.
Are you saying you'd much sooner watch someone like Peter Ebdon grind out a victory rather than watch Ronnie O Sullivan blaze his away around the table? Sooner watch Kevin Na bore his way around the golf course rather than watch Tiger smash it round? Cricket is about entertainment, it's about engaging with future generations, it's about providing value for money, it's about excitement. Without these things cricket or any sport soon becomes an irrelevance to all but the 'hardcore' of supporters.
Each player is responsible for their own performance. If I get nicked off in the second over, I can't blame a team mate for that.
One player doesn't make a team. But one player can win matches, and KP is a match winner.
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There is a reason the 2005 Ashes brought the nation to a stand still and probably got more kids playing cricket that ever before (me included) Hard hitting batsman, fast bowlers, high run rates and close matches. What does England have out of that criteria now?
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There is a reason the 2005 Ashes brought the nation to a stand still and probably got more kids playing cricket that ever before (me included) Hard hitting batsman, fast bowlers, high run rates and close matches. What does England have out of that criteria now?
KP was a new player in 2005. There will be more new players...
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KP was a new player in 2005. There will be more new players...
I'm on about the team as a whole not just KP
Trescothick
Flintoff
KP
Flintoff
Harmison
Jones
They make games exciting and we have no players like them anymore
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No point getting bums on seat if you can't win. Cricket team is there to win games first, raise money second.
He may be the best batsman in some eyes yet if he is bringing multiple people down by whatever means then he is not worth it. If (and is a big if) the reason Cook has been failing is partially due to KP and this solves that problem then good.
One man does not make a team.
If Cook is failing because of the reported behaviour of KP, then I'm afraid it points to Cook having no clue as to how to Captain the team. The worst reports seem to indicate KP expressed doubts about the training regime. Surely as England Captain you should be able to man manage small incidents like that. As a Captain on the field Cook looks limited, seems he's just as limited off field with the man management side of things.
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I have tickets to trent bridge test next year, disappointed I won't get to see KP bat :(
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I'm going to watch sangakkara and pujara and stokes
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There is a reason the 2005 Ashes brought the nation to a stand still and probably got more kids playing cricket that ever before (me included) Hard hitting batsman, fast bowlers, high run rates and close matches. What does England have out of that criteria now?
exactly this. The old timers at work are all jumping for joy that KP is gone but 2005 did more for cricket in this county than.. well god knows when. I have no doubt that if we looked at the stats for ticket sales, sponsorhips, player wages, number of people playing the sport (adults and children), number of media stories all shot up post 2005.. why.. because it was pure entertainment. I wonder how many of the current brands, smaller brands and retailers would even have entered teh market if 2005 hadnt' happened?? There wouldn't be the demand as there wouldn't be the number of players. I know for certain I doubt I'd have come into the game for instance, and I sure as hell won't be the only person to have started because of 2005.
Yes dour cricket will win you matches and if you are a hardcore supporter (judging by county cricket there aren't that many around!) you will be happy but if you are the 'masses' of normal people you want entertaining for your money.. Cricket if it wants to grow in popularity, have more attendances at games, more sponsorships, more adults and kids playing the game.. needs to provide that. Watching some boring team grind out results, producing PR lead media crap with stuffy management isnt' going to achieve that. By all means lets go back even further towards obscurity where only a small % of the nation gave a crap about cricket.. watch counties stuggle more.. watch teh ECB start to lose out on ££ as sky won't keep paying top wack for a sport that isn't generating the sales (they only bought into it after 2005 after all!).. yes you want to win, but there is a way to win that will captivate people and inspire them. Watching people grind out 500-6 and bowl 'tight lines' at medium plod and bore them out isn't going to do that long term.
I think i read somewhere or heard some league chairman mention that player numbers are dropping overall within the local leagues again.. kids numbers aren't as high as they were a few years ago and the amount staying in the game is down.... Whole host of reasons of course for that but something the ECB can do is make sure it's up there in terms of entertainment!!
The amount of clubs struggling for players, teams folding etc is staggering.. I don't really care what they do with KP, sacking him won't affect me one bit. It will affect cricket it this country though as it's been a while since the county had a inspirational player to cheer on.. I've not followed it long enough but it looks like England had botham.................... flintoff.. Kp.. that's it.. Strauss, Cook, Trott arent' exactly going to keep the non hardcore people watchign are they!
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Interesting news release from the ECB.
http://www.ecb.co.uk/news/articles/ecb-and-pca-statement
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A statement aimed solely at Piers Morgan. This will run and run.
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Piers Morgan and KP I'd suggest...
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So basically cook feels he has lost the trust of KP
Bloody hell after watching his captaincy KP was only possibly talking what we where all thinking.
I can understand the undermining effect of some but maybe it also a sign of poor leadership too.
Think Cook should stand down too
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The longer this goes on the longer the ECB look a bit stupid if you ask me. They think they can just release a statement and that's enough for people to shut up and hand over their money for tickets etc.
any organisation that feels they need to issue statements purely for that buffoon piers Morgan deserves questioning in my book
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i dont understand why they paid so much attention to what piers morgan said and realsed KP because he doesnt fit into their mould
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Net off the day cook is a crap captain no matter what way you look at it.
His captaincy needs ending too
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All I saw there was.
Fans we care little about you, go away,
Piers Morgan, stop slagging off our cricketers. Kp stop telling him stuff.
Cook, we will back you and everything you say or want. No matter the results.
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So bcsically kp told cook he is a (No Swearing Please) captain
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So basically cook feels he has lost the trust of KP
Bloody hell after watching his captaincy KP was only possibly talking what we where all thinking.
I can understand the undermining effect of some but maybe it also a sign of poor leadership too.
Think Cook should stand down too
I agree with this 100%
Cook is a crap captain that looks like a lost little boy when in charge of the team. KP has clearly made his opinions clear and Cook has requested he is no longer part of it.
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How come when kp said
"Moores is poor, please get rid he's ruining our side"
They sacked pietersen for questioning them, them sacked Moores just incase he was right,
But when Cook says "sack pietersen he questioned one of my ideas" they say, yep, course we can mr cook, anything mr cook. Cake mr cook?"
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So basically they had a players meeting and the yes men reported back to the head ahead
Bloody school boy organization run by little nancy boys
So what we know
Kp is a tit we know he is but a talented tit
Cook and a few other yes men ratted on him from a team meeting
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All I saw there was.
Fans we care little about you, go away,
Piers Morgan, stop slagging off our cricketers. Kp stop telling him stuff.
Cook, we will back you and everything you say or want. No matter the results.
The ECB needs to get their house in order. This is going back to the days of the MCC and Kerry Packer - a bitter war of childish proportions.
KP - He IS a prat and doesn't go about things the best way, but the guy is a winner and I cant imagine that he was trying to turn the dressing room against Cook, but probably throwing his toys out the pram when he thought HIS way was better. He needed to be managed - That was Flower's/Giles's jobs to do that - They failed badly.
We have gone back to the days where we want nice guys around all the time who do what they are told, and do not question anything, not people who are willing to fight for their standpoint because they want to win. The point of management is to manage different opinions and adapt accordingly. If Cook cant deal with someone questioning him... Great captain he is going to be...
Strauss handled Pietersen well, especially after KP did the stupidest thing you can do. Vaughan NEVER had a problem managing KP... Suddenly, KP is unmanageable and a disruptive influence? No offence, but he ALWAYS has been BUT he had been managed before so the impact he had was negligible.
In life, we all work with people who are prats but, sometimes we have to because they are really good at what they do. We DON'T go running to our boss every five minutes. I bet some of the England lads now will be thinking that if they disagree with something Cook is doing, will they be fired for having a view?
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This is excellent: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/26082470 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/26082470)
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Im torn in this issue,having followed england since 1981 its obvious we need our best players.kp has been a match winner for ages-we simply would not of won so much without him.
However atherton in the times on friday and strauss today in the same newspaper shed a different light on 'managing him'
Worth a read if you can
Personally imo he should of gone after textgate in 2012 but was reintegrated back and forgiven(by strauss)
But those old wounds opened up again in australia-under pressure.
I dont think cook is a very good captain myself but the team spirt issue and trust is mentioned in both articles.
Its also made clear cook and prior got kp back in the team-two players kp has now turned on
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Watched the verdict on sky and with the ecb statement quite speechless about the reasons for kp's sacking. So they had a team meeting after going 3-0 down where everyone could have their say in the open, but they didn't like what kp had to say. Reminds me very much of my old boss who would have a staff meeting to discuss his latest plans and we'd give our ideas. If you disagreed he'd shout you down and get aggressive. In the end we learnt to keep quite or found another job!
The ecb have thrown all their weight behind cook, but it's not like he's even an ok captain, It's obvious to everyone that he's not up to the job. Captain's like he bats; percentages, plays it safe, no risks and ultimately dull to watch! Kp will be missed, especially as without him we have far less chance of winning any form of limited overs tournament.
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Just remember Sky have their own agenda - they need to sell subscriptions to watch World T20 and English summer games once football is over without England's top player. That's why Charles Colville and Bob Willis are very one-eyed. No coincidence they're showing KP's greatest innings and then a very biased slant on KP's sacking with Charles, Bob, one of cricket's journalists form a sensationalist tabloid with the largest reader base and a few words from Harmy, who actually did pretty well.
It's a real shame that KP's gone - my overriding feeling is sadness and it's very well saying "he's our best player," "manage him better" etc. The issues are trust. We will all have experiences of playing with, managing talents who may well be idiots of the highest order, but they are tolerated because of their talent. But what if that talent starts undermining you as a manager? What if they're in the ears of the players, especially the younger ones, saying how poor you are at your job and you don't know what you're doing? What if those players then start 'acting up' and performance levels drop and you see that star players' influence spreading? You can cite, for example, Sheringham and Cole not getting on at Man Utd. But they only had to tolerate each other for a few hours each day and, at most a couple of nights on a away European game. Kp is in that camp for 3-4 months. You can magnify his influence significantly.
Cook has gone down in my estimation around this. He's quick to take the plaudits in 2012 when he reintegrates KP back into the side, but has gone silent (publicly at least) on this now he's seemingly had a big say. One thing is certain though. He'll learn from it. He knows he didn't learn, on and off the pitch, in Oz and it's a major mistake not seeking the advice of Strauss/Vaughan/Hussain. He should and I hope he does. I'd be very surprised if he doesn't drop Strauss a line, if he hasn't already. I agree he was managed better by Vaughan and Strauss, who were more experienced and stronger personalities than Cook, who has to learn quickly. He's been undermined and he needs to show he's a strong leader capable of doing the job.
Overall I'm disappointed KP isn't playing for England any more. I think it could've been handled better, by all parties (having Piers Morgan as his Rottweiler is a massive mistake and he needs to muzzle that dog - the ECB shouldn't have even acknowledged his input), but I can totally understand why England have binned him. You have to have the same rules for all players.
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In which way do you think Cook has been undermined? I'm assuming the leaking of the post-melbourne team talk?
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The real issue for me is that Pietersen has been a great servant to English cricket. He will always be remembered for that oval innings in the 2005 ashes. He didn't deserved to be disposed of in this manner.
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There are some who would counter argue that KP has been a great servant to KP.
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There are some who would counter argue that KP has been a great servant to KP.
Yep.
All summer I shall be listening to part-time cricket fans with loud opinions on this matter. Dreading it.
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I think it is time to move on.
It appears that Eoin Morgan is the chosen on.
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I think it is time to move on.
For sure.
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http://www.alloutcricket.com/cricket/blogs/kp-the-maverick-reject (http://www.alloutcricket.com/cricket/blogs/kp-the-maverick-reject)
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I think it is time to move on.
That's what the ECB want, for it to be swept under the carpet and then they'll be off the hook.. Typical PR way of doing it really. The more it's kept in the limelight the more it hurts the ECB. Currently they are doing nothing to make me trust their judgement.
The link to the maverick story is a telling one.. especially about the bit of a leggie who was not picked due to weight.. weight/fitness can be fixed very very easily.. Talent can not! You either have talent or you don't, simple as. This country NEEDS mavericks.. It NEEDS those who speak against the grain.. Otherwise we'll suffer for it.
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The time to move on will be the time that England are a better side for kp not being there.
So that'll be if we win the ashes in 2015(5-0 to aus, is my actually guesstimate)
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The time to move on will be the time that England are a better side for kp not being there.
So that'll be if we win the ashes in 2015(5-0 to aus, is my actually guesstimate)
I don't think England will have it in them to win 5-0 tbh, just look at 2010/11.. that was as close as we'll come to dominating the aussies and the team couldn't manage it. I'm not even a massive KP supporter tbh, I just don't like how the ECB have handled it and they have a track record of being utter idiots
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I don't think England will have it in them to win 5-0 tbh, just look at 2010/11.. that was as close as we'll come to dominating the aussies and the team couldn't manage it. I'm not even a massive KP supporter tbh, I just don't like how the ECB have handled it and they have a track record of being utter idiots
I guesstimated a 5/0 win to aus, I doubt england(we)will ever get a whitewash against aus, mainly because it'll only happen in the uk, and weather will play it's part in atleast one test.
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To be fair to the ECB, this rigged ICC thing they've pulled off shows them to be anything but idiots. It's just the PR that's dog mess.
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I think it is time to move on.
It appears that Eoin Morgan is the chosen on.
Big fan of Morgs, got a feeling he's going to be another Ravi though, all the talent in the world but when it comes to test matches it's a different story....
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He says he'll play for Surrey in the County Championship, if he hasn't got anything else on. :o
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He says he'll play for Surrey in the County Championship, if he hasn't got anything else on. :o
Sounds pretty typical. All the talent, but falls out with everyone where ever he plays.
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Sounds pretty typical.
Exactly.