Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Companies => Off-the-shelf companies => Gunn & Moore => Topic started by: Edward Lowy on September 01, 2014, 03:32:10 PM
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Afternoon all!
Just getting ready for my annual dunk in the stocks of this wonderful Forum - GM 2015 is being launched on Wednesday at our own GM factory in Nottingham. We launch to our salesforce Wednesday morning and to UK and Overseas customers Wednesday afternoon. Rounding off the day with a belting Chinese, resuscitating our agog visitors who will still be shell shocked by the sheer magnificent awesomeness of the day.
Well that's the theory!
Best wishes
Edward
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Can't wait for pictures!
I have 2 Six6 bats, 2 pairs of Original gloves and a pair Original LE pads which are all in perfect condition.
So obviously I'll probably be tempted by the new range haha :D
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Very pleased to be making the trip to Nottingham this year to see the new ranges :)
Can't wait.
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Praying for purple to be included in the line up.
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Praying for purple to be included in the line up.
I'm hoping for bright pink!! Would have to buy one if there was! :D
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Any chance of a forum exclusive feed from one of the sponsors Edward? That way you know it's getting out from you customers and not to your salesman, and we get an exclusive...!
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Hi Edward,
Any chance you will let us come up to Nottingham to hand-pick the bats this year? Or is this still forbidden?
Cheers,
Paul
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Any chance of a forum exclusive feed from one of the sponsors Edward? That way you know it's getting out from you customers and not to your salesman, and we get an exclusive...!
Happy to fill this role if Edward/GM give it the green light. Never had the chance to go to GM for a launch before, have been on 2 factory tours/training days but i'm still very excited :)
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Happy to fill this role if Edward/GM give it the green light. Never had the chance to go to GM for a launch before, have been on 2 factory tours/training days but i'm still very excited :)
Sounds like a plan, Stan! See you tomorrow
Kind regards
Edward
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Nice. We expect the live feed from you tomorrow Jake. What time does the event start?
Thanks very much Edward!
Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk
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Edward, thanks for approving you legend!
Jake, we're all depending on you!
I've not been this excited since the tea lady turned up with a boot full of homemade cakes! :D
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Sounds like a brilliant idea and it's my day off [emoji4]
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What do we expect to see?
I have no idea this time, but wouldn't be surprised to see a bat named the Geo and stickers which fall more in line with the Maestro Australia range.
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Slight crossing of the wires it would seem, we are attending tomorrow, i believe the launch continues into Friday too.
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When is the catalogue likely to be launched online?
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Given the success (not originally well received on here I notice - Edward got some stick for it if I remember correctly) of the new branding from last season - I expect to see more of that.
It will be interesting to see how the softs have been adapted from last year too - I liked the blue on the L.E. stuff, but wasn't so keen on the aqua on the Original gear personally - however loads of companies used it...
I am also interested to see how GM have adapted to any feedback they have had (positive and negative) to the F7, F2 and F4.5 face shapes. I know some have found it confusing...
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I loved the aqua colour on the original gloves, looks fresh with my Six6!
Have got OLE pads and the royal blue is nice too. Shame the OLE gloves don't have towelled thumbs or I'd probably buy them instead of the Originals.
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I agree with the walking wicket the, original gloves and the six6 colour scheme was my favourite out of all the gm stuff in 2014, I tried a pair of the original gloves the Ly were very comfortable and seemed to have good protection.
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The original gloves are quality mate.
As a fatty and a sweater under the lid, towel backed thumbs are a must when batting, all leather thumbs would be ruined :(
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The original gloves are quality mate.
As a fatty and a sweater under the lid, towel backed thumbs are a must when batting, all leather thumbs would be ruined :(
In the same situation as you mate, maybe I should grab myself a pair, I literally ruin gloves because of the amount I sweat!
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Is the release info coming out today ?
so excited to see the new lineup ...
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(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac151/buzzrockport/GM2015_zps5d3a17b3.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/buzzrockport/media/GM2015_zps5d3a17b3.jpg.html)
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac151/buzzrockport/GM2015-RossTaylor_zps89e4f7e9.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/buzzrockport/media/GM2015-RossTaylor_zps89e4f7e9.jpg.html)
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac151/buzzrockport/GM2015-1_zpsb088365f.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/buzzrockport/media/GM2015-1_zpsb088365f.jpg.html)
Seems as if Ross Taylor likes the black gloves!!
Lots of new colours in the new ranges - the bags have serious royal blue action and the looks to bats with red, purple and yellow themes as well as the aqua... and the pads seem to have nice detailing above the logo on the instep.
nothing massively radical that I can see from the pics - but all the models have the new style stickers.
Perhaps we should have a spot the forum sponsors in the bottom pic too.. ;)
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The yellow colourway being brought back for 2015 in the Aura range. I always associate the GM Hero with the yellow as used by Graeme Smith at one stage. I also see a new GM helmet in the last picture. Will be interesting to see the full range.
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Has my beloved Six6 range lived another year?!
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I see purple! :D :D :D
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Has my beloved Six6 range lived another year?!
I think it has, last picture, bottom shelf second in looks like a Six6 colour scheme.
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I think it has, last picture, bottom shelf second in looks like a Six6 colour scheme.
Bad eyesight + iphone screen = I'll beleive you! Haha
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Could the red mean the return of the flare? Very happy to see purple!
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(http://i.imgur.com/7Lzg0jf.jpg?1?5457)
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Sigma looks interesting, different stickers on the front and almost looks like some scooping on the back
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Sigma and aura like like very high middled bats. Duck billed toe.
Me I'm personally glad the octane has stayed but with updated stickers, will be placing an order with vitas when available!
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The Aura looks to have a MC style duck bill profile. Excited to see the full range!
On a slightly different topic, has anyone sent a GM bat off for a refurb and asked for different stickers? Really want Mogul stickers for my Epic that needs some TLC.
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I've just wet myself a little bit!!
Want a mogul to keep my six6s company!!
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Having attended the launch this afternoon, I can say the range looks great.
For those that wanted purple - its there with the Mogul! and the Six6 remains the same, which is good news, as it was one of my favourites this year.
The Sigma bat has a very interesting design to the back and the GM logo, to the back of the bat again, shows DXM at its best.
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have to say ive never been a GM fan for no real reason, however the look of this years range has really impressed me
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Looking at the sigma again. Si that scooped? All a earlier gn models? (Not quite as deep as the dyna drive)
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A busy but, as always, very enjoyable day launching GM 2015. Thanks to all those who attended today. The 2015 Book of Cricket will be available to download from the website in the next 24 hours.
Very interesting feedback already, oh and Aura is not yellow....
Kind regards
Edward
PS Tom, am interested to know where you got your info on Geo bats?
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...and now very much looking forward to a noodle, a rib, perchance an ale!
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...and now very much looking forward to a noodle, a rib, perchance an ale!
Likewise Edward :)
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Likewise Edward :)
;)
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I really don't like this at all... Why would you do this when I thought I had decided to limit my purchases?!
Much more impressive than the GN range IMO. Top work! :)
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I really don't like this at all... Why would you do this when I thought I had decided to limit my purchases?!
Much more impressive than the GN range IMO. Top work! :)
We are here to play with your mind! Sorry! :o
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PS Tom, am interested to know where you got your info on Geo bats?
From my Mongoose days I'm still subscribed to trademarks which are made in Class 28 featuring cricket bat in the description, a notification came through a few weeks back from Unicorn about a trademark made on the name Geo (as you did previously with the names Epic and Icon). I put 2+2 together, and looks like I got 5.
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Great looking gear pencils will have to be sharp next year
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From my Mongoose days I'm still subscribed to trademarks which are made in Class 28 featuring cricket bat in the description, a notification came through a few weeks back from Unicorn about a trademark made on the name Geo (as you did previously with the names Epic and Icon). I put 2+2 together, and looks like I got 5.
Good for you Tom, top sleuthing! GEO is our new patented helmet grille. Geodesic design don't you know, good innovation.
Best wishes
Edward
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There was me hoping to get some of the original gloves root uses in a sale, sounds like they'll continue next year
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No doubt I will have a mogul in my kitbag next year, when do they hit the shops?
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There was me hoping to get some of the original gloves root uses in a sale, sounds like they'll continue next year
If they're in the sales I'll stock up.
If they're in the range next year I'm happy! Win - win haha
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http://www.gm-cricket.com/upload/catalogues/pages/_BOC2015.pdf (http://www.gm-cricket.com/upload/catalogues/pages/_BOC2015.pdf)
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I think the link from our website to the new Book of Cricket is now live
Kind regards
Edward
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I've never been a gm fan, not really sure why, but I am now! Defo better than the new gn range.
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Shame no sausage fingered gloves.
Like the mogul colour scheme pads, and the yellow 808 ones. Lots more colour in this years softs range!
No f2 icon, and only one f7 bat available? How long till f7 is no more?
Purist didn't last long(presume bad sales?) zona doesn't last another year, and the argon now gone.
Overall, not a bad line up.
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Love the GM logo on the back of the Sigma bat. Mr Lowry, which of the pro's will be using the Sigma bat? The Aura looks really good too and like the look of the luggage.
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the sigma is going to be popular i think, looks very funky
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Edward, if i sent my very battered six6 in would you refurbish it as a six6, or could I get some new stickers on there??
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The Aura looks good, really not a fan of the sigma - A retro bat would've been better imo.
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must say Im loving the Sigma.
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The Aura looks good, however there isn't any softs to match the colourway except for the 101 range - I feel as though they have missed a trick there.
Scroll down to the 5 star dealer range, and the 808s in aura colours.
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Scroll down to the 5 star dealer range, and the 808s in aura colours.
I just spotted that and I have rectified my post.
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All those bats have very high middles
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I like the look of the GM ranges. Feels like it offers something for the traditionalist, the modern market and even the women, which is great to see. Love the look of the Mogul (have I mentioned I like purple) but my favourite profile is the Aura. Looks pretty similar to the MC profile.
Looking forward to seeing the bats in the flesh and how they have been pressed this season. Let's hope they are a touch more responsive than in previous years.
The 909 gloves have an interesting thumb protection.
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I want/need
An aura, an octane and a mogul.
Some new gloves and as many ripple grips in yellow, purple and blue I can get my hands on.
Good stuff from gm.
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([url]http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac151/buzzrockport/GM2015-1_zpsb088365f.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s895.photobucket.com/user/buzzrockport/media/GM2015-1_zpsb088365f.jpg.html[/url])
Is that a certain Mr A S Wani in the middle of the pic Buzz?
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Is that a certain Mr A S Wani in the middle of the pic Buzz?
I would guess so...!
have people seen the crazy mogal - with the scoops cnc'd GM - nuts!! the stickers look great though
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Oooooh! Mr Lowy - congratulations also on your magnificent 'ripple grips'.
They are the second best ribbed thing I have ever held in my hands.
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How can GM get away with naming one of their new bats after one of Gray-Nicolls's shoes? Or did they come up with the name "Sigma" first? Still, your biggest competitor is not really the type of company to pick a fight with, is it - care to comment, Edward?!
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That duffle looks good, I wonder how well it stands up when loaded with gear.
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How can GM get away with naming one of their new bats after one of Gray-Nicolls's shoes? Or did they come up with the name "Sigma" first? Still, your biggest competitor is not really the type of company to pick a fight with, is it - care to comment, Edward?!
Looks like GM is not your favourite brand then Paul!
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Looks like GM is not your favourite brand then Paul!
Let's just say there's some history there, and the fact that they don't let us hand-pick bats from their factory is just irritating. Do they have something to hide??? ;)
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Let's just say there's some history there, and the fact that they don't let us hand-pick bats from their factory is just irritating. Do they have something to hide??? ;)
They are just scared that you will do an honest review of all their bats and each one will be a montage of you saying 'Pressed too hard', "£500 RRP for an LE is not value for money" and "Will be a good bat in 2 years"...
Maybe you can auto tune it for them? :D
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Than engraved bat reminds of this I viewed a couple of months ago
(http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx165/d7bow/Mobile%20Uploads/9D316F12-AADA-45DB-882C-219791B3BAD5_zpsdxav0oj1.jpg) (http://s752.photobucket.com/user/d7bow/media/Mobile%20Uploads/9D316F12-AADA-45DB-882C-219791B3BAD5_zpsdxav0oj1.jpg.html)
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They are just scared that you will do an honest review of all their bats and each one will be a montage of you saying 'Pressed too hard', "£500 RRP for an LE is not value for money" and "Will be a good bat in 2 years"...
Maybe you can auto tune it for them? :D
Admin, thanks for the "like" button, but we now need a "love" button... :D
Watch all the GM purists jump to their defence now. Oh no, wait, haven't they got rid of the Purists?! ;)
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Admin, thanks for the "like" button, but we now need a "love" button... :D
Watch all the GM purists jump to their defence now. Oh no, wait, haven't they got rid of the Purists?! ;)
They may have dropped the purist from the range, but these ICONic stickers knock the GN range for SIX6.
GM have a certain AURA that means they cannot be ignored this year.
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They may have dropped the purist from the range, but these ICONic stickers knock the GN range for SIX6.
GM have a certain AURA that means they cannot be ignored this year.
Aura or not, I don't really care what the stickers looks like - if they don't let us visit their place to select our bats, we can - and will - ignore them...
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Relax Paul
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(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h76/smilley792/479px-Anchorman_well_that_escalated_quickly_966_zps9f7c0574.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/smilley792/media/479px-Anchorman_well_that_escalated_quickly_966_zps9f7c0574.jpg.html)
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i have to say Paul it is very brave of a specialist cricket retailer not to stock one of the biggest brands in the game, do you feel you miss out on purchases by not stocking GM?
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Misses out on GM fans but that's it
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Big fan of the GM range this year, and it's great to see a brand taking on board feedback with regard to the launch. Enjoyed keeping an eye on their twitter today and having the full catalogue available for perusal only a few hours later is even better.
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Never had an issue with not being able to hand select a GM. I would love to, but it isn't essential when the quality control in my experience is so high. Paul, you and me both know that at all brands there is often some slop in a box of bats intended to sell for £300+ and it is great to avoid those when hand selecting. Equally picking up some lower end gems is a nice bonus, but should not be expected.
I've never been sent a GM bat and thought it was not deserving of the sticker it carried. And lets not forget they are the only big brand who can put a sticker with 'made in the UK' onto every single bat they sell.
I don't feel everything is perfect. If I can't go and pick them out myself I would at least like a say in what weight is being sent, and this is possible with the pickup index system, but only on 808, 909, Original and Original LE. It is pot luck with the lower end bats, this is something i would like to change.
Based on the images I am excited to see the new range tomorrow.
Tom would know better, but I assume Sigma isn't trademarked by anyone so is fair game? To me it seems quite fluid in cricket anyway, SF were selling a Powerbow and a Powerspot this year!
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All those bats have very high middles
I see where you are coming from
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Really like the new look of the stash and what is available. I like the GM CNC milled logo but not the shaping to balance the bat and pick up of the sigma but each to their own. Like the look of the new duffle but just wish the bats were stored inside the bag rather than on the outside.
GM seem to have thought of something for everyone in the 2015 range so hats off!
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I was a GM whore long before this years all singing, all dancing super dooper range came out, you lot don't know what you've been missing!! ;)
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Looking through the range again, the 909 model has made a return. Was that due to feedback about the large gap between 808 and original?
Any reason why GM have followed Gray Nics with the use of Poron Xrd for the softs?
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Looking through the range again, the 909 model has made a return. Was that due to feedback about the large gap between 808 and original?
Any reason why GM have followed Gray Nics with the use of Poron Xrd for the softs?
Slazenger did it for the 2014 range, so technically they are both following ;)
Must be a good material as D3o has been ditched! Used to love fiddling with the raw d3o at GM when we visited for training days, it's like flubber.
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Looking through the range again, the 909 model has made a return. Was that due to feedback about the large gap between 808 and original?
Any reason why GM have followed Gray Nics with the use of Poron Xrd for the softs?
I would think it's due to the inflexibility of D30 - even sheets of it 1cm thick are quite tough to bend which is fine until it comes to things like sausage finger style gloves. That said I've never played with any Poron so couldn't comment about that stuff....
I like the Six6, Icon and the new LE softs - not a great fan of the duck bill toes but that's down to personal preference....
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Is it me or are all the shapes basically the same.
Differences in concaving, slight differences in bow but no real stand out, this bat is quite clearly very different?
And the scooping on the back, a gimic to sell a bat if I have ever seen one.
With reference to grading, as a store if you receive a bat that has been way over graded can you not send it back and say 'this is no way an LE etc'?
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Is it me or are all the shapes basically the same.
Differences in concaving, slight differences in bow but no real stand out, this bat is quite clearly very different?
And the scooping on the back, a gimic to sell a bat if I have ever seen one.
With reference to grading, as a store if you receive a bat that has been way over graded can you not send it back and say 'this is no way an LE etc'?
In theory yes, i have never had to with GM, and we hand select bats from the rest of the brands.
The Octane is a very different shape to the Aura in my opinion. Icon is different again.
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Fair point, its not like CA were they are all identical.
But lets say it is not the most imaginative set of bat designs. But they had an Argon and that didn't sell i guess?
I am super surprised about the Purist, I remember when I was a kid and people used purists. How did they justify it?
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Fair point, its not like CA were they are all identical.
But lets say it is not the most imaginative set of bat designs. But they had an Argon and that didn't sell i guess?
I am super surprised about the Purist, I remember when I was a kid and people used purists. How did they justify it?
Supply and demand mate. Argon went because it didn't sell as well as the octane I'd guess. And the purist obviously was t a big seller either.
As for not being the "most imaginative" set of designs, there's something for everyone. I'm personally very impressed by GMs range.
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Fair point!
There is not one bat in there that makes me go, bloomin' heck thats original. No H4L tempo or GN Nemisis sort of thing!
But I guess as a big manufacture they do not have them room to 'experiment'
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im always intrigued by what happend to excess bats.
i.e when they start the 2014 range, they have a set amount of bats in each style, and then grade made ready for shops and punters to snap up.
the 1975 didnt sell well, the purist hasnt sold well, etc etc. so this should mean theres a pile of each in different grades sat doing nothing?
do they sell them cheap to shops for bargain sales? send them to different countries as specials? burn them as fire wood?
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Never had an issue with not being able to hand select a GM. I would love to, but it isn't essential when the quality control in my experience is so high. Paul, you and me both know that at all brands there is often some slop in a box of bats intended to sell for £300+ and it is great to avoid those when hand selecting. Equally picking up some lower end gems is a nice bonus, but should not be expected.
I've never been sent a GM bat and thought it was not deserving of the sticker it carried. And lets not forget they are the only big brand who can put a sticker with 'made in the UK' onto every single bat they sell.
I don't feel everything is perfect. If I can't go and pick them out myself I would at least like a say in what weight is being sent, and this is possible with the pickup index system, but only on 808, 909, Original and Original LE. It is pot luck with the lower end bats, this is something i would like to change.
Based on the images I am excited to see the new range tomorrow.
Tom would know better, but I assume Sigma isn't trademarked by anyone so is fair game? To me it seems quite fluid in cricket anyway, SF were selling a Powerbow and a Powerspot this year!
Don't they make some bats in India?
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Misses out on GM fans but that's it
Is it even valid to ask whether GM miss out more by not being in IJC here, because I'd wager that there are a competing number of "Paul Fans" out there - people who maybe don't know what bat they want but will buy whatever it is from IJC on the back of their hardline pick-what-we-sell policy, Youtube presence and Paul's general credibility? Because here's the thing - if its a choice between a middle man/retailer who has given me plenty of reason to believe that he knows what he is doing and cares about the quality of product he provides and a particular (and particularly overpriced at that) sticker on the bat, I know which one I would choose.
I do genuinely see both sides of this - cards on the table, I've never been a big GM fan myself, and I believe I have previously recounted my experiences of watching one of their reps put under considerable pressure by another London retailer over the grading of a number of bats. It also occurs to me that they price at a similar premium level to the likes of Salix who don't have the same resistance to handpicking, overly hard pressing etc.
That said, I do think their new catalogue is one of the better of its type - very informative and clear - and I think the branding has improved out of sight.
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Don't they make some bats in India?
Only Kashmir willow and bats for the Indian market, so you "shouldn't" end up buying an Indian made English Willow GM in England. But as we all know it doesn't take too much searching to find one in a well known auction site (if said site is working at the time).
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Is it even valid to ask whether GM miss out more by not being in IJC here, because I'd wager that there are a competing number of "Paul Fans" out there - people who maybe don't know what bat they want but will buy whatever it is from IJC on the back of their hardline pick-what-we-sell policy, Youtube presence and Paul's general credibility? Because here's the thing - if its a choice between a middle man/retailer who has given me plenty of reason to believe that he knows what he is doing and cares about the quality of product he provides and a particular (and particularly overpriced at that) sticker on the bat, I know which one I would choose.
I can see your point, but with all respect to Paul he's just a bloke on YouTube to many.
Little Johnny sees Joe Root using GM on telly, he wants one.
Little Johnny's parents take him to IJC, they don't stock GM but Paul recommends something in their price range, that's been hand picked and promised it will go well.
This goes over Little Johnny's head, he wants a GM. His parents don't know much about cricket so drive him to the next shop, order the bat he wants online.
I can't see it being a huge loss to GM in the grand scheme of things.
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My thoughts, it's not a huge loss to either
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Have to agree - your average Joe wants a bat like the guy he sees on TV. Similarly, there is brand loyalty, which also works in reverse for IJC - people go with what they trust and what they know, we are creatures of habit!
In the whole scheme of things, I'm sure GM aren't bothered at all if one stockist won't buy in their gear. Whereas I can see Paul's point of view and stance, GM clearly place faith in their ability to supply quality bats and have every right to dictate how they want to supply them.
Re; the 2015 range, I've never been a big GM fan. No point of reference, just never really been a fan of the branding, but I am very impressed with the look of this year's range. Looking forward to seeing some of the gear close up in the coming months...
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I can see your point, but with all respect to Paul he's just a bloke on YouTube to many.
Little Johnny sees Joe Root using GM on telly, he wants one.
Little Johnny's parents take him to IJC, they don't stock GM but Paul recommends something in their price range, that's been hand picked and promised it will go well.
This goes over Little Johnny's head, he wants a GM. His parents don't know much about cricket so drive him to the next shop, order the bat he wants online.
I'm pretty sure that Paul's business is predominantly online anyway - footfall through his shop is pretty much limited to those "in the know" - so he's unlikely to be looking for Little Johnny's trade in the first place.
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Have to agree - your average Joe wants a bat like the guy he sees on TV.
I'd be interested to know how this concept - that a significant portion of the market is influence by what bats favoured professionals use - actually translates into the real marketplace (and by real marketplace, I don't mean some five year old wanting a size one Kashmir williow Adidas because KP uses one).
The most marketable players in England in the last decade would be, in my opinion, KP (Woodworm, Adidas) and Andrew Flintoff (Woodworm, briefly Puma) and we all know how poorly those manufacturers performed sales wise despite the endorsement. Of the batsmen in the current England set up, GN have Cook, Robson, Woakes
GM have Root, Hales
Kookaburra have Bell, Buttler, Ali
New Balance have Ballance
Slazenger have Morgan
Do these endorsements generate massive numbers of sales? I'd say no - they are the biggest manufacturers and their sales are more likely influenced by perceived value due to brand size and market penetration than they are by "oooh, SAm Robson uses one so it MUST be good".
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Hi Edward,
Any chance you will let us come up to Nottingham to hand-pick the bats this year? Or is this still forbidden?
Cheers,
Paul
That is not possible I'm afraid, sorry!
Kind regards
Edward
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How can GM get away with naming one of their new bats after one of Gray-Nicolls's shoes? Or did they come up with the name "Sigma" first? Still, your biggest competitor is not really the type of company to pick a fight with, is it - care to comment, Edward?!
Are you familiar with my companies use of the name Sigma since 2007?
Kind regards
Edward
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Personally I admire Paul at IJC integrity standing by his principles.
Handpicking gives the customer confidence when purchasing especially online as they know they are going to get the best of what's available
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That is not possible I'm afraid, sorry!
Kind regards
Edward
Out of piqued curiousity, can we ask why not? Your (splendidly informative) catalgue offer prospective buyers the chance to visit the factory, so what would be the problem with a retailer doing so?
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Fair point!
There is not one bat in there that makes me go, bloomin' heck thats original. No H4L tempo or GN Nemisis sort of thing!
But I guess as a big manufacture they do not have them room to 'experiment'
Appreciate the feedback, thanks
Kind regards
Edward
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Do these endorsements generate massive numbers of sales? I'd say no - they are the biggest manufacturers and their sales are more likely influenced by perceived value due to brand size and market penetration than they are by "oooh, SAm Robson uses one so it MUST be good".
I think you are massively over complicating this. Most of the people I see buying bats do it off the back of "Ooooh. I like that one", either at nets or in games, or come from using one when they haven't got theirs with them, and there is plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest this is the case in many clubs. I suspect far fewer people consider perceived value or market penetration in their decision as to who to buy a bat from.
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Out of piqued curiousity, can we ask why not? Your (splendidly informative) catalgue offer prospective buyers the chance to visit the factory, so what would be the problem with a retailer doing so?
No problem with customers visiting us, we have many here right at this moment. However, selectively picking own bats is just not our way - I don't see the equity in it to be honest.
Kind regards
Edward
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I'm pretty sure that Paul's business is predominantly online anyway - footfall through his shop is pretty much limited to those "in the know" - so he's unlikely to be looking for Little Johnny's trade in the first place.
On the other hand, he has had some outstanding junior bats in the shop. Some of them look so good that you suspect that there must have been some problem with the cleft, otherwise a premium level full size blade would have resulted.
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Do these endorsements generate massive numbers of sales? I'd say no - they are the biggest manufacturers and their sales are more likely influenced by perceived value due to brand size and market penetration than they are by "oooh, SAm Robson uses one so it MUST be good".
I think its a bit of both. I don't think that your average club cricketer is googling 'boutique cricket brands' or 'local batmakers in...' I think they see the big brands on TV, decide which they like the look of, who is using it (to an extent), then go down to their local stockist (or as likely go online) and see the store/website dominated by GN, GM, Kookaburra, etc. and select accordingly.
I do agree that brand size and market penetration are possibly the biggest factors, but where does the average consumer see those brands first?
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The new stickers have grown on me a little, and are more appealing now their across the full range, with the tetris style ones on the Sigma being an improvement on the others IMO.
It's easy to throw around accusations of none of the bats being very innovative, but when was the last time a big manufacturer released a bat that was, and that you than actually saw being used around your leagues. GN have at least tried with some odd looking shapes, but I'm not sure I've every actually seen anyone use one of them in a game.
GM bats are never likely to temps someone like me who has access to so many custom makers on here, but their soft goods and bags are always well made and good value.
As for Paul's complain, I can see why someone in his position would find it very frustrating, but I guess the scale of GM means there's no real benefit to them and it would be some (if not a lot) of extra work for them.
P.S Kudos to Edward for coming on here, reading the replies and replying, while we're a pretty pushy crowd it'd still be far easier for him just to note any comments and make no attempt to respond. It'd be good to get a bit more all round input from Gm but again due to their size I guess there's very limited value in it.
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As a large scale batmaker GM aren't going to release a new bat shape that isn't going to appeal to a large number of cricketers, it's not viable to produce a wacky, unusual shape that few people buy. A smaller niche batmaker can do that.
What GM tend to be good at is producing a coherent range of bat shapes that cover pretty much every possible bat profile, that 95% of all cricketers would need. Compare it to the GN range this year that seems a random selection of bat profiles/stickers/names thrown together, I wouldn't have a clue how to start to select a GN bat to suit my game.
Stickers are a subjective matter, I looked at the the new Sigma and pulled a face at the sticker design and scallops, whereas my 12 year son saw it and told me thought it looked brilliant and he had to have one as his next bat!
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No problem with customers visiting us, we have many here right at this moment. However, selectively picking own bats is just not our way - I don't see the equity in it to be honest.
Really? I can't see any sensible reason why you would not do it myself; if you allow retailers to handpick, you are giving a clear message that you are confident about the quality of your bats and the rigour of your grading policies. If you don't, you are tacitly admitting that a percentage of bats in each grade will be hard to shift because of either poor performance or shoddy grading. The word equity has multiple uses; do you mean to be read as saying "The state, quality, or ideal of being just, impartial, and fair" - in which case, hand picking is the fairest thing for your customers - or as saying "funds provided to a business by the sale of stock" - in which case you rather prove the latter argument...
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As a large scale batmaker GM aren't going to release a new bat shape that isn't going to appeal to a large number of cricketers, it's not viable to produce a wacky, unusual shape that few people buy. A smaller niche batmaker can do that.
What GM tend to be good at is producing a coherent range of bat shapes that cover pretty much every possible bat profile, that 95% of all cricketers would need. Compare it to the GN range this year that seems a random selection of bat profiles/stickers/names thrown together, I wouldn't have a clue how to start to select a GN bat to suit my game.
Stickers are a subjective matter, I looked at the the new Sigma and pulled a face at the sticker design and scallops, whereas my 12 year son saw it and told me thought it looked brilliant and he had to have one as his next bat!
Oh, I quite agree that their catalogue is an excellent, informative read - I genuinely like the way they've tried to provide information to assist the buyer such as about weight and pick up - and I think the branding is pretty good now compared to the last couple of seasons.
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Really? I can't see any sensible reason why you would not do it myself; if you allow retailers to handpick, you are giving a clear message that you are confident about the quality of your bats and the rigour of your grading policies. If you don't, you are tacitly admitting that a percentage of bats in each grade will be hard to shift because of either poor performance or shoddy grading. The word equity has multiple uses; do you mean to be read as saying "The state, quality, or ideal of being just, impartial, and fair" - in which case, hand picking is the fairest thing for your customers - or as saying "funds provided to a business by the sale of stock" - in which case you rather prove the latter argument...
I am unsure how you can come to such conclusions in the absence of knowing how our business operates. We are 100% confident of our grading, done by our own staff in our own factory in Nottingham. Our customers, worldwide will testify to the consistency and reliability of that grading. For the avoidance of doubt, there is no tacit admission of anything given or implied. Each grade label that our staff apply to a GM bat is backed up by their lengthy experience and knowledge of willow.
In terms of equity, why should we allow such a facility to a specific person or group of people? Who should have first pick?
Kind regards
Edward
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I completely agree with GM having to produce bats for the majority of cricketers.
I used to use one and it went like a train!
A good point about the left overs, if the Zona did not sell well is there a stack of them in the factory we can buy?
White label them with no stickers?
ohh an massive kudos for Edward to come on here, very brave. If only more business owners were so honest and frank. Refreshing!
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In terms of equity, why should we allow such a facility to a specific person or group of people? Who should have first pick?
Well clearly the first pick should be given to Aswani sports (on an alphabetical basis) and because they are a forum sponsor - who can then sell me the best bat.
what could possibly go wrong? :o ;)
A good point about the left overs, if the Zona did not sell well is there a stack of them in the factory we can buy?
Look in the Sports Direct sale...
ohh an massive kudos for Edward to come on here, very brave. If only more business owners were so honest and frank. Refreshing!
We should (and do!) extend a huge thank you for the managing director of one of the biggest bat making firms in the world for coming onto our forum and answering our questions. We are very lucky to have him here
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I am unsure how you can come to such conclusions in the absence of knowing how our business operates. We are 100% confident of our grading, done by our own staff in our own factory in Nottingham. Our customers, worldwide will testify to the consistency and reliability of that grading. For the avoidance of doubt, there is no tacit admission of anything given or implied. Each grade label that our staff apply to a GM bat is backed up by their lengthy experience and knowledge of willow.
In terms of equity, why should we allow such a facility to a specific person or group of people? Who should have first pick?
"you don't know how our business operates" is an appallingly weak defence, especially given that I was using your own statements to evidence my point. In saying that hand picking is a positive thing that manufacturers should accommodate, I am hardly suggesting you make an exclusive arrangement for IJC but instead that any of your stockists who wish to should be able to avail themselves of the opportunity. There wouldn't be a first pick per se since, I'm sure, you produce bats throughout the year, so stock will be constantly refreshed in time for any visit.
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I would guess with GM having manufacturing all in house they can manage their stock levels a bit better. If you're importing bats from India you have a minimum 3 month lead time - so those brands will be the ones who often overproduce and have to discount heavily to retailers towards the end of the season (or re-sticker them!)
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"There wouldn't be a first pick per se since, I'm sure, you produce bats throughout the year, so stock will be constantly refreshed in time for any visit.
I agree with Edward on this I'm afraid - the retailers will all be looking to get their initial 'start of the season' stock in at roughly the same time of year so regardless of them making bats all year round there will only be a limited supply at the time when everybody wants them. It'll have a negative effect for GM as the big retailers will take all the best leaving the smaller retailers with the so called "scraps" (not that I've personally seen a bad GM) - this will only put the smaller retailers off and make them feel undervalued, personally I commend GM for treating all retailers the same with this respect.
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Here's a different point of view for you. Hand picking is a tacit admission that not all your bats of a given grade are as good as one another and by offering the ability to handpick you are accepting that picky retailers (GMs customers, not us, please note), can take the best of all grades and then those that buy in bulk get the rest shipped out to them.
What I think Edward is saying is that all of the 909 Auras, for example, as far GM are concerned, are the same, and therefore no-one handpicking gets this advantage (and lets face it, walking into the warehouse of Kook, bashing a load of bats with mallets, and then choosing what you believe to be the ones that look best and rebound a mallet best is still NOT a scientific or particularly effective way of determining whether a bat is any good, rather it's a way of a retailer being able to sell bats by specifics i.e. number of grains, which is a very small scale model)
And as per Tom's comment, due to the ability to manage stock locally, if there is demand for 10,000 Auras in 200 orders, fulfillment of each of those orders can be managed specifically.
By ensuring that you don't allow one retailer access before another, and defining what is shipped to who, there is much greater level of Equity and the retailers customers know that they would get the same choices whichever retailer they choose to use.
We've had many conversations on here about Pro Direct having shoddy bats from some manufacturers because they don't hand pick, when they could, for example.
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Yes hand picking is a nice touch for some, but is it vital??
How many people have bought a bat online from Sports Direct to find it has nice grains and pings well? I've seen plenty of reviews stating this.
What GM are doing is ensuring that everyone gets the same treatment, and is fully trust their grading system. I've had a few GMs over the years and am yet to come accross a bad one.
Of all the ones I've seen I'm also yet to say "how's that an XXX, it's not good enough for that" yet I have said "I can't beleive this is only a XXX, what a bargain!"
Anyway enough of this now, we seem to be going round in circles.
GM are doing a great job with their grading and distribution of bats in my opinion so hand picking isn't required. You can order safely knowing you'll get what you pay for.
I for one can't wait for the new range to come in as I'm sure Jake will find me a belter of a GM, he hasn't failed me yet on doing so!
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Hand picking is the only reason I buy off Paul. Being in Australia I have to have confidence that I'm getting a decent bat and not one that's been sitting around because it's crap and the only way they will move it is via internet. I also buy from Uzi for the same reason.
Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk
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I agree with Edward on this I'm afraid
Don't be afraid, its called healthy discussion!
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What I think Edward is saying is that all of the 909 Auras, for example, as far GM are concerned, are the same, and therefore no-one handpicking gets this advantage
But if all 909 Aura's are the same, why would you have an issue with IJC, or any other retailer, hand picking the 20 or so bats they want because, hey, noone will be disadvantaged because all the other bats are exactly as good. This argument doesn't quite work.
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I'm very impressed by the new GM range, and am thrilled by the arrival of a dedicated 'womens' series... Mainly because I have tiny hands, so the 909 gloves will be straight in the kit bag! In any case, I'd argue that this a major gender-based innovation in itself, and GM should be lauded for that.
I like the look of the Mogul, Aura and the Sigma looks pretty awesome...
Aura shape looks the best personally, I just hope I can find some 808s with a light pick-up. My only disappointment really is the lack of Academy sizes bats in different ranges, but that is a niche product.
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Yes hand picking is a nice touch for some, but is it vital??
How many people have bought a bat online from Sports Direct to find it has nice grains and pings well? I've seen plenty of reviews stating this.
What GM are doing is ensuring that everyone gets the same treatment, and is fully trust their grading system. I've had a few GMs over the years and am yet to come accross a bad one.
Of all the ones I've seen I'm also yet to say "how's that an XXX, it's not good enough for that" yet I have said "I can't beleive this is only a XXX, what a bargain!"
All of what you say is valid, and I am not saying that hand picking is some kind of panacaea. However, I would say - especially when buying online and in the lower grades - that buying a bat that has been hand picked offers a greater chance of you getting a really top blade than buying a bat that has been circulated by the manufacturers sight unseen and reduces to almost zero the chances of you getting a plank. I am not necessarily saying that there is a major issue with GM's grading etc - though I have seen some that I would describe as bad ones (and one absolute shocker) in the past - just that I would personally be uncomfortable paying such a premium price for a bat that the manufacturers refuse to have picked.
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But if all 909 Aura's are the same, why would you have an issue with IJC, or any other retailer, hand picking the 20 or so bats they want because, hey, noone will be disadvantaged because all the other bats are exactly as good. This argument doesn't quite work.
Because if they're all the same hand picking becomes a waste of time for the person doing it, and time is taken out of someone's day to show then round etc.
and if they're all the same you don't want someone smacking them all with a mallet to chose "the best one" then putting the other, dented ones, back for someone else to end up with.
Seems perfectly reasonable to me.
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But if all 909 Aura's are the same, why would you have an issue with IJC, or any other retailer, hand picking the 20 or so bats they want because, hey, noone will be disadvantaged because all the other bats are exactly as good. This argument doesn't quite work.
Very simply if you have companies wanting to come and pick their own bats, you have to accommodate them. This requires time, people, space and additional logistics systems, and doesn't come at no cost. If you are confident in your products, why increase your overheads? This would only increase the cost of the product to the customer and therefore to the end user. And as all are equally as good, it gives no benefit to the retailer to come and pick, but creates inequity between GM customers. WHy does it make sense to allow some people to handpick at an increased cost to all?
In the specific case of IJC, Paul has stated that it is a frustration and not that it is the reason why they are not customers of GM...
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Because if they're all the same hand picking becomes a waste of time for the person doing it, and time is taken out of someone's day to show then round etc.
Unlikely that this would amount to an additional overhead - there will already be staff available, as evidenced by the fact that customers are able to pop around!
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If you are confident in your products, why increase your overheads? This would only increase the cost of the product to the customer and therefore to the end user. And as all are equally as good, it gives no benefit to the retailer to come and pick, but creates inequity between GM customers. WHy does it make sense to allow some people to handpick at an increased cost to all?
There is no way that an increased cost would be involved as per my previous post. To answer the question though, if you're confident in your products you want to show the world that you're confident with your products rather than being secretive/protective of them.
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I think that one point worthy of consideration is that retailers who hand pick might actually have different criteria in their selection process, not least because they would have some idea of the numbers of bats at different price points that they want to stock. Some may go for blades with maximum grains, others may not, and so on. There would also be reliance on the retailer's judgement of pick up, which might be different to the customer's. It's the same when we buy a bat from the retailer/maker, we all have different ideas of what we want. Somewhere out there is our ideal bat, which is why we constantly search, but let's face it, it's damned elusive!
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Unlikely that this would amount to an additional overhead - there will already be staff available, as evidenced by the fact that customers are able to pop around!
I don't know the ins and outs of a customer doing the factory tour but you would pay RRP for your chosen bat. This is higher than the trade price GM would sell the bats to retailers for, (theoretically) covering the additional time of the staff member conducting the tour. There may also be a charge for going on the tour, again to cover overheads.
If retailer came in to hand pick the same overheads would be incurred, as time is money. I don't know about you, but I get paid when I'm at work, so tasks I carry out cost the company money (time = money) so this needs to be recovered.
What is more cost effective, boxing up an order for 10 OLE bats, or showing someone round, letting them wave all the OlE bats round, test them with a mallet and chose the "best 10".
Quite frankly your statement about not amounting to additional overheads is ridiculous, there's no way it wouldn't cost GM money to run such a day (numerous times for each retailer...)
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There is no way that an increased cost would be involved as per my previous post. To answer the question though, if you're confident in your products you want to show the world that you're confident with your products rather than being secretive/protective of them.
If you're confident in your products, why do you give a stuff about what, maybe, five customers think, when they amount to 2.5% of the net revenue you earn?
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More pics courtesy of Jake at Vitas...
https://twitter.com/VitasCricket
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More pics courtesy of Jake at Vitas...
https://twitter.com/VitasCricket
Time to copy paste.
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What about the perception of whoever gets in first takes the best stuff having an effect on other retailers? I completely agree with GM's stance.
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Yes but that's based on them not having already sent any bats out, or made any new ones in the meantime...
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Hand picking has it's downsides. But does the majority off the public know about them? I doubt it!
1) I would not buy a kook/gn/salix from pro direct owzat etc, as I would be paranoid I'm getting the worse bats, ones that have been slung from bucket to bucket by the hand pickets.
Unless off course it was ridicolously cut in price(vitas, ijc etc do not have the kind of sale sd and pd have!!)
I'd happily go to owzat and buy a gm though. They could have one of the best?
2) As these guys want to hand pick spcertainy brands, I now believe that they all make a mismatch of great bats, to really really poor bats, infact so many poor bats that people need to hand pick them to avoid them.
If it was only 1 in 200 that were poor, would you really need to hand pick?? I doubt it.
And if gms poor bat ratio is 1 in 2 I doubt they'd still be in business.
3) hand picking could ruin there reputation. What if you get a duff bat? The hand picker is hung over, or got flu when visiting, and accidently picks a duff bat?
Or someone orders a specific bat ASAP so it can't be hand picked, but drops out of the buy. And you end up with said bat, believing it's hand picked?
Now you think your getting the cream de la cream of bats, yet it's hard, no ping and vibrates. Your gonna question the handpickers credentials? What does he know about bats? What other lies has he told you? Hmm maybe you'll go elsewhere?
Boom customer lost.
You would not lose a customer if said duff bat came from gm? You'd just think you was unlucky(if it happens once)
4) a handpick bat doesn't mean it's the best! As mentioned knocking with a mallet not proof, one mans great pick up, could be a bad pick up to someone else.
If your handpickers was 4th in line to pick his 20 from a bin off 100, you aren't getting the best bat, your getting the best bat of the last 40 remaining.
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What about the perception of whoever gets in first takes the best stuff having an effect on other retailers? I completely agree with GM's stance.
It doesn't matter what any retailer (or indeed forum sponsor) claims. It is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to go through every single bat in a single day when you visit the big brands. So whether we go to pick first or not is not that important, there are plenty of bats to go around, with multiple drops of fresh stock from November through to pre season. To open a box full of bats first is a nice feeling for me personally but has no impact on what I aiming to achieve by handpicking.
Great launch with GM today by the way, love the new range. I have tweeted a few images which I see the admin have picked up on :)
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Can someone do us a rundown of the bat shapes?
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Typically high class yet again from GM. I really do love their kit - the combination of technology and tradition is perfect and they seem to be producing modern kit that still appeals to traditionalists too.
The new stickers have definitely grown on me, but that's because I was so used to using the older style on my favourite ever bat - a Flare 606 :)
The colour schemes looks cool and I like the way GM have incorporated what can be quite garish colours but in a classy way, not like some of the GN bats which are increasingly looking like leftovers from a 10 year olds sketchbook.
Re: handpicking, I think GM's stance and belief in the quality of their product is admirable. I understand why some retailers business models are built on handpicking, as in quite a few manufacturer's cases it definitely is a necessity, but personally I've never seen a bad GM for the grade and the amount of people saying similar on this forum speaks volumes for the finishing/quality control they operate.
Some of Paul's posts are bordering on arrogant IMHO and I genuinely think you're missing a trick not selling GM bats - that's a not a personal dig at all, just seems to me like a typical 'it's my ball you're not playing' type of approach.
I'm not sure about the sigma's cutouts/milling, but that's a personal thing.
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Liking the icon F4.5 and original pads and gloves.
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"you don't know how our business operates" is an appallingly weak defence, especially given that I was using your own statements to evidence my point. In saying that hand picking is a positive thing that manufacturers should accommodate, I am hardly suggesting you make an exclusive arrangement for IJC but instead that any of your stockists who wish to should be able to avail themselves of the opportunity. There wouldn't be a first pick per se since, I'm sure, you produce bats throughout the year, so stock will be constantly refreshed in time for any visit.
It is a statement of fact. Have seen your further comments about hand picking not costing anything, this is just nonsense. I don't know your business but would not presume to pretend that I know more about it than your good self.
We remain 100% confident of our grading and I am in absolute support of our extremely knowledgable staff on this point.
Kind regards
Edward
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Hand picking is the only reason I buy off Paul. Being in Australia I have to have confidence that I'm getting a decent bat and not one that's been sitting around because it's crap and the only way they will move it is via internet. I also buy from Uzi for the same reason.
Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk
You can buy a GM bat from an Australian retailer with the same 100% confidence as from a UK retailer or a retailer anywhere else in the World. All GM DXM bats only come from our own factory in Nottingham, we only have one set of grading standards and they are applied rigorously to each bat.
Kind regards
Edward
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You can buy a GM bat from an Australian retailer with the same 100% confidence as from a UK retailer or a retailer anywhere else in the World. All GM DXM bats only come from our own factory in Nottingham, we only have one set of grading standards and they are applied rigorously to each bat.
Kind regards
Edward
I like that - I like that a company will say with utmost confidence that "we have over 100 years experience in this field and the product we provide for you to buy is as good as you will get anywhere in the world."
By the way - those two Mogul Originals in the pics are spectacular...
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That 909 Aura with the heartwood looks wonderful as well as the batting pads in the Aura colourway. I love seeing Quinton De Kock in the catalogue. Definately a star in the making.
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That 909 Aura with the heartwood looks wonderful as well as the batting pads in the Aura colourway. I love seeing Quinton De Kock in the catalogue. Definately a star in the making.
Edward any chance these bats in the photos will be available to buy through retailers, some of them look lovely( if so left octane 808) is mine) ;)
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I can see both sides to this hand picking argument, which to be honest seems to be hijacking the thread. I respect the retailers who do like to do it wherever possible. It allows them to build a reputation and position themselves in the market place - always being aware of the possibility of the devil on the customer's shoulder whispering in their ear 'Hm, I wouldn't have picked that one.'
I also respect the manufacturers who don't allow it, as to all intents and purposes they treat everyone the same, although at this point that same old devil that I mentioned before is whispering to someone: 'oh yes, I bet they do!'
Fair play to GM for answering questions on the forum - very welcome in my opinion.
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"you don't know how our business operates" is an appallingly weak defence, especially given that I was using your own statements to evidence my point. In saying that hand picking is a positive thing that manufacturers should accommodate, I am hardly suggesting you make an exclusive arrangement for IJC but instead that any of your stockists who wish to should be able to avail themselves of the opportunity. There wouldn't be a first pick per se since, I'm sure, you produce bats throughout the year, so stock will be constantly refreshed in time for any visit.
GM and New Balance are the only brands I'm aware of that don't let us hand-pick from them. If all the others do, maybe it has some merit, Edward? And of course, you wouldn't need to accommodate just us! I remember one visit to the Slazenger warehouse a couple of years ago where myself, Asad and 3 or 4 other shops were all there picking bats at the same time. I suggest GM consider something similar, possibly even put aside a "retailer open day" once a year for want of a more politically correct term...
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Edward, tell us about the science behind the scooping on the Sigma? Exactly how does it help improve the performance and pick-up of the bat? Is there a method to your madness, there, or is it just for show?!
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GM and New Balance are the only brands I'm aware of that don't let us hand-pick from them. If all the others do, maybe it has some merit, Edward? And of course, you wouldn't need to accommodate just us! I remember one visit to the Slazenger warehouse a couple of years ago where myself, Asad and 3 or 4 other shops were all there picking bats at the same time. I suggest GM consider something similar, possibly even put aside a "retailer open day" once a year for want of a more politically correct term...
I don't think just because you'd like to hand pick GM bats there going to change there ways just for you, unfortunately Paul.
If they have done it this way for such a long time, and everyone bar one retailer is happy with it this way and the stock they receive is good, then I don't think it's going to change. Every GM bat I've had has been top, and grading spot on.
New range looks superb this year, top work GM
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Edward, tell us about the science behind the scooping on the Sigma? Exactly how does it help improve the performance and pick-up of the bat? Is there a method to your madness, there, or is it just for show?!
Did you (rather aggressively) ask your GN rep the same about the Scoop and Dynardrive ranges, or do you only do that to companies you appear to have a personal vendetta against??
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My last comment suggested they change to benefit other shops as well, not just us. Of course they shouldn't change their ways especially for you - I was never suggesting that they do that because it would be ridiculous. I am pretty confident that most retailers would welcome the opportunity to hand-pick their GM bats, and despite receiving good bats from them in the past, would be happier to at least have the option, which like I said, could come in the form of an open day, which could be a nice day out (and maybe even a piss up after!) to boot...
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Did you (rather aggressively) ask your GN rep the same about the Scoop and Dynardrive ranges, or do you only do that to companies you appear to have a personal vendetta against??
Yes, I did actually, and they gave me very convincing answers, some of which I admit went over my head as I'm not a scientist, but were still convincing! Hopefully GM can do the same here...
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Edward, tell us about the science behind the scooping on the Sigma? Exactly how does it help improve the performance and pick-up of the bat? Is there a method to your madness, there, or is it just for show?!
I for one will certainly not be choosing Its Just Cricket for future purchases. You're coming across as agressive, petty and to be honest a bit of a c*ck. If you don't like how GM operate, the don't stock their goods. We're all enjoying the new, very well designed, GM range. If you have a problem with them, can't you take it up in private and let us pore over the beautifully co-ordinated new range?
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I don't think just because you'd like to hand pick GM bats there going to change there ways just for you, unfortunately Paul.
If they have done it this way for such a long time, and everyone bar one retailer is happy with it this way and the stock they receive is good, then I don't think it's going to change. Every GM bat I've had has been top, and grading spot on.
New range looks superb this year, top work GM
As a retailer that have successfully stocked GM since the 1970's I can say that we are happy with the way in which GM grade their bats and ultimately with the bats that they send out to us. If there have been times when we may not have liked any of the bats sent, then simple phone call and the stock is replaced within days.
May I add, that present at the dinner last night were 3 generations of the Lowy family all of whom are actively involved in the business. This comes about only when you continue to excel in what you do!
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Edward
Could i please enquire a couple of things please.
Which face / pressing option do most of your pro's prefer (F2, F4.5 or F7)
Do all the bats have the same quality handle fitted irrespective of grading.
Apologies if these have been asked before.
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I for one will certainly not be choosing Its Just Cricket for future purchases. You're coming across as agressive, petty and to be honest a bit of a c*ck. If you don't like how GM operate, the don't stock their goods. We're all enjoying the new, very well designed, GM range. If you have a problem with them, can't you take it up in private and let us pore over the beautifully co-ordinated new range?
I am afraid I have to agree with you. Clearly Paul doesn't like how GM operate, that's fine and he doesn't have to do business with then. I am not sure how many bats GM sells and what percentage of GM bats IJC would sell if they stocked them, but I am pretty sure that GM won't lose any sleep over it. Paul has made his views very clear, he does himself no favours by labouring the point.
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Yes, I did actually, and they gave me very convincing answers, some of which I admit went over my head as I'm not a scientist, but were still convincing! Hopefully GM can do the same here...
If you know the answer why ask the question.
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Edward I have an idea for a competition!!
If you have full GM gear already but the colours don't fully co-ordinate you could do a swap!
I'd swap my OLE pads for a pair of this years Original pads with the Siz6 colour scheme (just a suggestion of how it could work... ;) )
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Guys, I have been reading this post for a while and think that it is time for me to step in and comment a little bit. I think that I can add a slightly different perspective, having been a member of IJC for a while now, but also being a cricket customer, and GM fan for a while.
Firstly, let me make my position clear. I like the new GM range, I have been a fan of GM for a long time, I was sponsored by them a few seasons back, and I still use a Luna, which goes like a gun. Where it may seem Paul has a slight intrinsic criticism of GM, which personally I don't think he does, I want to assure everyone that I am a big fan of GM, and the 2015 range in particular looks great.
With regard to IJC and GM, I think above all it is a great shame for both parties that we cannot stock one of the biggest manufacturers of cricket kit in the world. Having been involved in many hand picking sessions myself, I know that it does not require great effort on the part of the company - at Gray Nics, Newbery, Salix etc the guys just give us a cup of tea and leave us to get on with it! Thus the benefits - a new account, with decent spending power, outweigh the negatives of having to provide us a single member of staff for a day. I believe in the benefits of hand picking - I think that is basic logic. It cannot be logically shown to be detrimental. Having two people look over and judge the best bats, both people being professionals with extensive knowledge, can only be better than one.
As a small shop, we believe in our staff and our knowledge, and want to be able to passionately talk about every product on the shelf, and believe in them. The simple fact is, cricket bats are different, irrelevant of the grade. As manufacturers often tell us when bats break, willow is a natural material, and therefore it varies from every individual bat. Here at IJC, we like to pick what we think are the best bats for our customers, and this helps us have the confidence and belief in our products which we hope translates into our customers receiving the best of the best. If we are unable to pick these bats with our own hands, such as at GM, we cannot put our hallmark, our own seal of approval on them, like we can at Gray Nics for example. We may be looking for bats with very specific properties, in very specific weights, and hand picking allows us to do this. It does also allow us to find some "diamonds in the rough", which can then translate into massive savings for our customers - ie they are paying 5* prices for SPS quality. Hand picking is not meant as a slight on the staff of GM, it is merely meant as an extra layer of filtering to ensure that we have the best of the best in the shop. It is for our own, and our customers, guaranteed confidence in our products. As a customer, people trust in Paul and Neil and myself, having built up a relationship with us through Youtube, emails, phone calls etc, and therefore they trust us more than someone they have never spoken to, regardless of whether they might do a good job, as I'm sure every single one of the GM staff does. Thus, as a customer you would rather a bat which is hand picked by someone you know and trust, then someone you are just going on blind faith with.
I'm sure this wouldn't be the case, but as a small shop how would we know we are getting the best of the best - surely our spend on an account would not come close to some of the bigger retailers, and so the incentive to send them the best bats is much greater. Hand picking allows us to select what we feel are the best bats. As a customer, would you not like that extra layer of screening, ensuring that you get two professional, high quality opinions on your bats, knowing that it s therefore agreed upon as one of the best in that range? It is ridiculous to say that bats of the same grade are the same - it is natural that they will be ever so slightly different, and that is the benefit of hand selecting them.
As to it being unfair or it being a hassle. I personally think it is a bit of an insult that retailers cannot have thesame benefits as customers. Surely customers then come and pick the best bats in that range, and the retailers are left at a disadvantage? Why should that be? Further, any retailer who, given the opportunity to, chooses not to hand pick, is quite frankly being negligent to their customers. The ability to personally stand with a customer and talk them through why you chose this bat over a hundred other competing sticks is something which I find vital to successfully selling a bat.
In conclusion, I make a plea to Mr Lowy, allow retailers to hand pick. It is not a slight on your staff, it is merely a way of us showing our customers that we go the extra mile to ensure they get the best value for their money. After all, we are on the same side here, Edward, and IJC and GM having a good relationship is something which everyone wants to see.
Thanks for reading this long winded post,
Chris
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Chrisbd - a much more eloquent response that I think/hope will pour some oil on the troubled waters of the IJC / GM relationship. I'm not sure it will make a huge difference, but you stated your case well and in an manner that won't alienate you to some of your potential customers or close the door to GM.
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i like paul, hes looked after me well, and is a nice guy, so i shall say. please leave the posting in this thread to chris, hes doing a better job on the subject....
to chris, if your sponsored by gray nics? how do you get away with using a luna?
on the subject, ive just been looking at gm vs grays 2015.
as a sausage finger fan, grays has my buy there, and although i prefer the 808 pads from gm, i like my softs too match.
as for bats, gms bats have much classier stickers imo! and im so glad they have nothin as awful as the xrd range. they are attrotius, lol.
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correct me if i am wrong paul/chris, but you dont hand select your CA or SF do you? you may in which case im wrong and apologise, but if you dont then what difference is it in comparison with not hand selecting GM bats?
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Edward
Could i please enquire a couple of things please.
Which face / pressing option do most of your pro's prefer (F2, F4.5 or F7)
Do all the bats have the same quality handle fitted irrespective of grading.
Apologies if these have been asked before.
In terms of handles, according to the catalogue, 909-OLE have the highest quality, 606-808 have the mid-quality and 303-404 have the lowest quality handle. You can see that they're different if you put them side by side and look at the tops of the handles. (I would get you a picture, but I've moved on my 404 and 909!) One of the reasons I'm glad that the 909 range has been released this year, as I feel that an Original or OLE will be out of my price range, but the 909 offers a more affordable price without really compromising in the quality of the materials. (Never really had a problem with GM handles though, so may be purely in the mind!)
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on the subject, ive just been looking at gm vs grays 2015.
as a sausage finger fan, grays has my buy there, and although i prefer the 808 pads from gm, i like my softs too match.
as for bats, gms bats have much classier stickers imo! and im so glad they have nothin as awful as the xrd range. they are attrotius, lol.
Totally with you on that - although I did try a pair of the 2013 GM Original gloves - excellent quality, just didn't fit as well as I'd like. The GM bats do look stunning this year, huge fan of the white labels, when previously I wasn't convinced. I do like the shapes too and the bags look, as ever, excellent.
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Totally with you on that - although I did try a pair of the 2013 GM Original gloves - excellent quality, just didn't fit as well as I'd like. The GM bats do look stunning this year, huge fan of the white labels, when previously I wasn't convinced. I do like the shapes too and the bags look, as ever, excellent.
i started 2014 in gm orignal glovs, but they was just too large/baggy, so switched to gray nics.
bats have always looked stunning imo, and with rumours from aus, that the last few months gms being pressed better than ever before, i have i hopes off recieving a lovely octane when released.
hearing the 808 will have an inferior handle has upset me though, as theres no 909 in the octane.... noooooo
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i like paul, hes looked after me well, and is a nice guy, so i shall say. please leave the posting in this thread to chris, hes doing a better job on the subject....
to chris, if your sponsored by gray nics? how do you get away with using a luna?
on the subject, ive just been looking at gm vs grays 2015.
as a sausage finger fan, grays has my buy there, and although i prefer the 808 pads from gm, i like my softs too match.
as for bats, gms bats have much classier stickers imo! and im so glad they have nothin as awful as the xrd range. they are attrotius, lol.
I use a plain Luna in the nets, have an Oblivion e41 Test for matches
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correct me if i am wrong paul/chris, but you dont hand select your CA or SF do you? you may in which case im wrong and apologise, but if you dont then what difference is it in comparison with not hand selecting GM bats?
They do from a distributor.
In my opinion, GM are the most consistent of the big brands in terms of quality control. Yes, you still get the odd REAL gem and odd dud. I've seen many gems, (Favourite being the trial Flare OLE at Vitas) don't think I've actually ever seen a dud, but they really are the most consistent of the big brands. That being said, I can see where IJC are coming from in the hand picking part, in that they want what they deem the best, and most suitable for preorders in terms of weight. (The lack of a value for weight issue is probably the deal breaker) But I can also see that not letting anyone hand pick is also fair on GM's part, which benefits all retailers fairly. Also, with regards to customers coming to pick their own personal bat, they pay RRP prices, which helps retailers as they're more likely going to just pick one out from a retailer and save between 10-20%! If they want to spend that extra, then fair enough, their money!
One question for Mr Lowy, will you be able to provide bats with just the natural finish? I know that the Australian market have some of these (Good friend from HK got a gem of a Mogul from Aussie without the scuff or the toe guard) and I prefer it. Of course, maybe research shows that almost all of the GM users in the UK prefer the GM NOW, in which case it would be pointless offering this option, but one can always hope! :)
Oh, and another! Will you ever be able to match a retailer's request for a specific weight? I understand that pick up is the most important, but having picked up a 2.11-2.12 which I could have sworn was a 2.8, (Again, same Flare mentioned above) I can see that there is a slight flaw in just using the PI, as dead weight does play a factor as an innings drags on!
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chad is right, no matter how well a bat picks up, if youve used a 2.8 all your life, a 2.11 is gonna weigh you down, and increase fatigue 25/30 overs in too your innings.
there is nothing wrong with wanting a correct weight imo.
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correct me if i am wrong paul/chris, but you dont hand select your CA or SF do you? you may in which case im wrong and apologise, but if you dont then what difference is it in comparison with not hand selecting GM bats?
Yep, we pick them all from our distributor.
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Yep, we pick them all from our distributor.
One assumes that a distributor doesn't hold as much stock as a factory, is that right?
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GM and New Balance are the only brands I'm aware of that don't let us hand-pick from them. If all the others do, maybe it has some merit, Edward? And of course, you wouldn't need to accommodate just us! I remember one visit to the Slazenger warehouse a couple of years ago where myself, Asad and 3 or 4 other shops were all there picking bats at the same time. I suggest GM consider something similar, possibly even put aside a "retailer open day" once a year for want of a more politically correct term...
Filed under "No"
Kind regards
Edward
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One assumes that a distributor doesn't hold as much stock as a factory, is that right?
Absolutely. I wonder if the distributor hand picks the stock, because if they don't...
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The tone in this thread between two grown men who are respected by many people on here is terrible.
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The tone might be frosty but it is showing that two people are thoroughly passionate about what they do. Regardless of what you think that is certainly commendable.
Both sides obviously love cricket, lets keep it that way and put this to rest for now and move on.
For another day....
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Is there a catalog link any where is all this? Can't be bothered to read through the rubbish!
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The tone in this thread between two grown men who are respected by many people on here is terrible.
No freezy frost here, I see no point in the same question being repeatedly asked of me when I have given my answer at the outset.
Very interesting listening to and thinking about all the questions in this thread. Will try and answer but going out shortly with some guests this evening
Kind regards
Edward
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http://www.gm-cricket.com/upload/catalogues/pages/_BOC2015.pdf (http://www.gm-cricket.com/upload/catalogues/pages/_BOC2015.pdf) :)
Love the new duffle too... Top work Mr. Lowy!
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That duffle would be so useful. For somebody who has to take my wheelie bag on the tube that would be by far much eaiser.
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I've ordered the duffle from jake already :-)
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Mr Lowy,
What, if any, rise in price will there be for the range this year?
(Which looks marvellous.)
Thanks
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No freezy frost here, I see no point in the same question being repeatedly asked of me when I have given my answer at the outset.
Very interesting listening to and thinking about all the questions in this thread. Will try and answer but going out shortly with some guests this evening
Kind regards
Edward
I'm glad there's no frostiness here guys!
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I'm glad there's no frostiness here guys!
My middle name is Tropical!
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Mr Lowy,
What, if any, rise in price will there be for the range this year?
(Which looks marvellous.)
Thanks
Hi Alvaro, that is for retailers to say. We can't set retail prices and don't sell direct.
Kind regards
Edward
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correct me if i am wrong paul/chris, but you dont hand select your CA or SF do you? you may in which case im wrong and apologise, but if you dont then what difference is it in comparison with not hand selecting GM bats?
Affinity.
Spartan until recently.
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Great to see everyone at GM again today, always a pleasure to chat with you Edward, however briefly, and on whatever topic. Perhaps I'll pick something a bit more cheerful to talk about next time, like how well Mr Root is batting, or indeed how well his Six6 is selling! :)
I'm putting together a little GM pre-order offer for the forum this evening, should be able to post it a little later.
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Perhaps a silly question, but just wanted to ask about the weights specified in that catalogue. It says naked weight which according to GM is 3oz less than the finished weight(Page 3). Just so I understand it right, as an example a 3lb bat (at the maximum end of the GM scale) would weigh in at roughly 3lb 3oz then when it comes to the retailer/end consumer. Is my understanding correct?
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Affinity.
Spartan until recently.
I'm confused - does this mean that affinity and spartan let you hand pick the bats or not?
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Has anyone got any picture of the new lid??
I know there's some in the catalogue, but it would be nice to see some "real life" images :)
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Can a bat geek tell me why an F7 lightweight icon offers "max power to weight" - surely this is only in the sweetspot that is now narrower due to the lack of edge mass when compared to a F4.5/F2 bat?
Assuming an identical weight bat (ignoring pick up as in long spell it comes down to raw weight) for a village cricketer then the better choice is a 4.5/2 over a 7 due to the mass and therefore sweetspot size being wider?
I only ask as I view it from an almost aesthetic/traditionalist view and I find the Icon F7 more appealing.....
(I hope that makes sense)
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I'm confused - does this mean that affinity and spartan let you hand pick the bats or not?
They don't allow it.
Until recently with Spartan at least. I'm not sure when in 2014 they started offering it, but it was mid season.
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Just been flicking through the catalogue with my girlfriend. I didn't have to push too hard to get her to show an interest, but it is hardly a riveting read for her.
A total non cricketers view can throw up some interesting points. With regard to the Sigma; 'it looks like Swiss Cheese to me!' was her remark. She thought the milling of the GM logo looked very good though.
Interestingly, I quizzed her on what her favourite bat was, as well as pads and gloves, or at least what she would use if she did play cricket. Mogul bat, 909 pads, 909 gloves.
When i flicked to the womens range and showed her that all the things she had picked were marketed specifically to women she commented 'It looks like me and this Edward fellow think alike!'
Seal of approval. :)
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Jake, what impressed you most about the GM range today?
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Jake, what impressed you most about the GM range today?
Perfect levels of colours splashed through the softs range, they look stunning this year.
The 808 range (exclusive to 5 star dealers) and the value for money it offers being further extended with the 808 LE pads and gloves.
Padded straps on all pads from 808 LE - Original LE.
A full womens range is a really good option, interestingly we sold a fair bit of kit to girls/ladies this year, most of it was GM.
I really like the Aura personally, lovely shape with no concaving and a duck bill toe.
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Affinity.
Spartan until recently.
Jake, as you may know, we took on Spartan later than most, purely because we were waiting for their UK warehouse to open...
And Marcus hand-picks our Affinity bats for us. I trust his judgement implicitly, so technically they are still hand-picked. Besides, I don't think you can compare the Affinity setup to GM anyway...
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Great to see everyone at GM again today, always a pleasure to chat with you Edward, however briefly, and on whatever topic. Perhaps I'll pick something a bit more cheerful to talk about next time, like how well Mr Root is batting, or indeed how well his Six6 is selling! :)
I'm putting together a little GM pre-order offer for the forum this evening, should be able to post it a little later.
Thank you so much guys for coming up to Nottingham. Always a pleasure to see you, best to all at Vitas
Kind regards
Edward
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Jake, as you may know, we took on Spartan later than most, purely because we were waiting for their UK warehouse to open...
And Marcus hand-picks our Affinity bats for us. I trust his judgement implicitly, so technically they are still hand-picked. Besides, I don't think you can compare the Affinity setup to GM anyway...
Fair enough re Spartan, wasn't aware when you began stocking them.
Having met the guys at GM numerous times, and based on the bats we are sent, I trust their judgement just as much as I trust Marcus.
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On a different note, here is a little vine we made to show the differences between Poron XRD used across the pad and gloves ranges from 808 - Original LE compared to conventional foams.
https://vine.co/v/OuiHUEPmqXH
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Just been flicking through the catalogue with my girlfriend. I didn't have to push too hard to get her to show an interest, but it is hardly a riveting read for her.
A total non cricketers view can throw up some interesting points. With regard to the Sigma; 'it looks like Swiss Cheese to me!' was her remark. She thought the milling of the GM logo looked very good though.
Interestingly, I quizzed her on what her favourite bat was, as well as pads and gloves, or at least what she would use if she did play cricket. Mogul bat, 909 pads, 909 gloves.
When i flicked to the womens range and showed her that all the things she had picked were marketed specifically to women she commented 'It looks like me and this Edward fellow think alike!'
Seal of approval. :)
Where do I send flowers?!
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Perfect levels of colours splashed through the softs range, they look stunning this year.
The 808 range (exclusive to 5 star dealers) and the value for money it offers being further extended with the 808 LE pads and gloves.
Padded straps on all pads from 808 LE - Original LE.
A full womens range is a really good option, interestingly we sold a fair bit of kit to girls/ladies this year, most of it was GM.
I really like the Aura personally, lovely shape with no concaving and a duck bill toe.
Anything but the Aura... Why couldn't it have been the Six6 or Octane, I honestly don't have any room for another... :-[
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As to it being unfair or it being a hassle. I personally think it is a bit of an insult that retailers cannot have thesame benefits as customers. Surely customers then come and pick the best bats in that range, and the retailers are left at a disadvantage? Why should that be? Further, any retailer who, given the opportunity to, chooses not to hand pick, is quite frankly being negligent to their customers. The ability to personally stand with a customer and talk them through why you chose this bat over a hundred other competing sticks is something which I find vital to successfully selling a bat.
In conclusion, I make a plea to Mr Lowy, allow retailers to hand pick. It is not a slight on your staff, it is merely a way of us showing our customers that we go the extra mile to ensure they get the best value for their money. After all, we are on the same side here, Edward, and IJC and GM having a good relationship is something which everyone wants to see.
Thanks for reading this long winded post,
Chris
I am sure that all on the Forum appreciate you taking the time to write.
You seem to be under the misapprehension that we sell direct to the public. We don't. No members of the public come and pick bats, we would direct their interest to an accredited GM dealer.
I entirely respect the business practises that you set out and wish you every success with them.
Kind regards
Edward
(Edited for Edwards shocking grammar)
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No surprises seeing 2015 GM range, they are most consistent in maintaining quality.
Their softs are exceptional as always and probably only brand who takes initiative such as D30 in past and now Poron XRD.
Top work Edward and co. Oh the catalogue for perusal was lovely!
Wish you all the best.
Cheers!
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The GM catalogue will take some beating this year. I was set on trying the B&S range, but GM have thrown me a curve ball!
Are there round handle bats in the range?
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can any tell me what size the gloves are this year? i want some gm ones, but the orignals were a tad baggy on me this year, so may go small mens?
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can any tell me what size the gloves are this year? i want some gm ones, but the orignals were a tad baggy on me this year, so may go small mens?
I am interested in this too.
This season's Originals were lovely if a bit big.
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I am interested in this too.
This season's Originals were lovely if a bit big.
Hi both, yes we would agree with you, so 2015 gloves are just a wee bit smaller and oh so snuggly comf!
Kind regards
Edward
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Good to hear. Thank you, Mr Lowy.
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I am sure that all on the Forum appreciate you taking the time to write.
You seem to be under the misapprehension that we sell direct to the public. We don't. No members of the public come and pick bats, we would direct their interest to an accredited GM dealer.
I entirely respect the business practises that you set out and wish you every success with them.
Kind regards
Edward
(Edited for Edwards shocking grammar)
If under that misapprehension I apologise.
I think on behalf of IJC I would like to bring a sense of finality to this whole handpicking discussion that we have going on. We respect Mr Lowy, and GM's passion and belief in their staff, and their convictions, and whilst we disagree and ultimately can't come to an agreement, we do wish them the best of luck with what looks like a very good, consistent and varied range for 2015 - which after all is what this thread is about! Despite how it may seem, there is no animosity between the two brands, merely Paul and Edward are two very passionate blokes who stick by their belief sets to the end, and unfortunately that results in IJC being unable to stock GM, but it does show the integrity of both companies above anything.
On that topic, love the duffle bag, looks really good quality and a great solution to those of us who travel on public transport.
Good luck with everything for 2015 Mr Lowy, and as has been said before, we are lucky someone with such power is on this humble forum for us cricket geeks!
Chris
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Been an observer on the forum for a long time, this topic has prompted me to join. I am involved in the industry but will not promote/favour/mention anything I am involved in, if cricket is doing well then it's all good by me.
Great range, nice to see GM adding a bit of colour into the softs. The Sigma is a little bit 'look what we can do with our machine' - but that in itself is good because although you do promote DXM and provide lots of info in the catalogue, I doubt the average joe truly knows what the CNC is capable of, or indeed what it means (uniformity of shape bat after bat etc.)
It seems to me that in recent times the range has a bat where all the experiments are carried out. ie the Zona carried a really funky shape and also the brand new logo style. If it had been either the funky shape or the logo I think it would have sold well, to have 2 radically different things launching on one bat was probably a bit too much for most. Similarly the Sigma with the logo milling on the back, scooping/weight removal as well as the digi-camo graphics is a little bit too much crammed into one bat in my opinion. Equally you can't launch a load of experimental bats into a range to test the waters, there is only so much room after all. Look at GN, the Vortex is gone after a season and the Nemesis only just clings on with vastly toned down graphics.
The topic has been spoiled somewhat by the unnecessary input from an previous stockist. To demand handpicking from one of the biggest and best, a brand who puts all their passion and energy into making bats in the UK and providing the very best they can for every price point is rather strange when you don't from Affinity. With the greatest of respect to Marcus who does provide wonderful luxury products that really do the business, he's only been around for 5 minutes, yet you imply that you trust him more than the only major brand still not relying on anyone else except themselves to provide English Willow cricket bats. GN, Kookaburra and the rest all definitely need to be handpicked, simply because quality control in India (whilst vastly improved) is not to the same level.
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I agree with InsideInfo in that quality control with bats made in India is just not the same.
I personally like Gunn and Moore alot. Especially being Made in UK. So please Edward, keep up the good work, and don't move manufacturing to India like other brands have.
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Welcome InsideInfo ... Great post, couldn't agree more.
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Is it wrong for me to go to a retailer and try every bat before I buy? Or should I accept the one that the sales person gives me because the manufacturer already grades them.
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Is it wrong for me to go to a retailer and try every bat before I buy? Or should I accept the one that the sales person gives me because the manufacturer already grades them.
Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk
The key word there is retailer. The nature of their business is for you to browse. This is why it's best to go to a retailer and pick bats up. The best handpicked bats are the ones you choose.
If you order a hand picked bat on the internet don't you intrinsically accept the one bat the retailer sends?
Great first post above.
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We are all customers except for the manufacturer. The only people I buy off online is IJC or Uzi. Specifically because they hand pick. For example, there are currently really good sales because UK is in the off season but I won't buy because I am worried that they will send there crap bats that can't sell and know that because I am overseas that I won't send there product back.
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I'm pretty sure GM know a lot more about bats than some bloke who set up a cricket shop 2 or 3 years ago
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Is it wrong for me to go to a retailer and try every bat before I buy? Or should I accept the one that the sales person gives me because the manufacturer already grades them.
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Would never class myself as a salesperson. I am there to provide advice if you want it, but ultimately the choice is down to you, customers are free to spend as long as they want picking every single bat up, we provide balls and mallets to enable you to judge performance too.
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We are all customers except for the manufacturer. The only people I buy off online is IJC or Uzi. Specifically because they hand pick. For example, there are currently really good sales because UK is in the off season but I won't buy because I am worried that they will send there crap bats that can't sell and know that because I am overseas that I won't send there product back.
I think you weigh up the risks vs the potential savings you might make buying from someone else who dosen't hand pick. In some cases I would say the savings would be worth taking a punt with. The bigger retailers carry more stock, so you might get a gem at a bargain price (opposite is also possible of course).
In the case of GM, from what I have read so far here there is no advantage to buying from one retailer over the other, since it is all based on GM's grading. Hence I would go for the retailer offering the best price for a particular bat.
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I think you weigh up the risks vs the potential savings you might make buying from someone else who dosen't hand pick. In some cases I would say the savings would be worth taking a punt with. The bigger retailers carry more stock, so you might get a gem at a bargain price (opposite is also possible of course).
In the case of GM, from what I have read so far here there is no advantage to buying from one retailer over the other, since it is all based on GM's grading. Hence I would go for the retailer offering the best price for a particular bat.
After care is another consideration. I had a customer recently who came in to buy a bat. He had purchased a GM from another retailer not too far from us and it had broken in the toe after a few weeks. That retailer refused to help and said "you haven't knocked it in"
When he pointed out the ready to play sticker the retailer eventually agreed to replace but said stock would not be available for 4 months?!
One of the massive advantages of GM making bats in the UK is total control over availability, if they run out of a particular bat they can make more quickly and easily, usually within 15 days. I am never sure why retailers put so many barriers in front of customers with warranty claims. GM are always happy to inspect a bat for a warranty claim and always provide a (usually positive) answer very quickly. I highly doubt they would have said 'it will take 4 months to replace that'
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Great point you make about after care. That is a very valid point and definitely something to consider strongly when making a buying decision.
I think for those of us overseas, it will always be a bit more of a gamble. For example, shipping it back to England to get it replaced could be quite an expensive affair depending on where people live, so it becomes even more critical that you get it right the first time. Which would of course favour going with a shop that you trust to get it right the first time.
Still there will always be many of use willing to take a punt with the larger shops. Everyone will see it differently from a risk/reward perspective. For some the bargain prices would be enough to entice, for other not so.
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To me, in many ways the objective of handpicking is to iron out the inconsistencies with some manufacturer's grading process. By hand picking, you aim to overcome that problem, and get the best bats possible at each grade/price level.
If GM's quality control is above all others, and their grading is applied consistently, it negates the objective/advantage of hand picking to a large extent, at least in my view.
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To be fair. The only brands I have bought overseas are ones I can't get here in Perth. I have no issue with GM's policy but it would " just be nice" if they would allow hand picking even if it was at a retail level at there workshop. I was so impressed with this year's product that I bought 2 bats and would have fully kitted out but there gloves are made for giants even there small mens.
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To be fair. The only brands I have bought overseas are ones I can't get here in Perth. I have no issue with GM's policy but it would " just be nice" if they would allow hand picking even if it was at a retail level at there workshop. I was so impressed with this year's product that I bought 2 bats and would have fully kitted out but there gloves are made for giants even there small mens.
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What difference would or rather could it have made to you?
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This year you guys will get the aura which hasn't come to Australia and I would like to purchase it. If Jake was able to hand pick a pre ordered one for me it would give me more confidence that would be a half decent stick.
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We are all customers except for the manufacturer. The only people I buy off online is IJC or Uzi. Specifically because they hand pick. For example, there are currently really good sales because UK is in the off season but I won't buy because I am worried that they will send there crap bats that can't sell and know that because I am overseas that I won't send there product back.
We entirely respect everyone's decision as to how to buy, where to buy, what to buy. You can buy a GM DXM bat made by our staff in Nottingham with 100% confidence anywhere in the World as it has been graded by our highly experienced staff without agenda.
However, the choice is of course entirely up to you.
Kind regards
Edward
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To be honest. Since GM is made and graded in England it does make a difference. Like I said it's not a deal breaker for me it's a case of what I would wish for if I had 3 wishes.😊
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I'm pretty sure GM know a lot more about bats than some bloke who set up a cricket shop 2 or 3 years ago
Rude.
on the point.. not always true.
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Rude.
on the point.. not always true.
That's Garrett. Straight to the point.
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The key word there is retailer. The nature of their business is for you to browse. This is why it's best to go to a retailer and pick bats up. The best handpicked bats are the ones you choose.
Perfectly said - as retailers thats what we are here for. Even where a customer asks us what we feel would be a good choice for them, we would typically pick out a selection of different ones and leave them to decide as to whether one of those are suitable. If not then we offer some more options.
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The advantage of handpicking:
Willow is a natural material therefore even with grading all bats have the potential to perform differently.
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With the upmost respect to GM and all GM fans, Paul and IJC sponsor the forum whereas GM does not. Therefore those criticising Paul should remember he pays towards the running of the forum.
On a brighter note, I love the dynamic simplicity of the new range. Doing all the right things so well, Edward! Keep up the excellent work.
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I can tell you all something know GM make the best quality gear I've ever seen, their bats are exceptional and of the highest quality. I will defiantly be getting me:
X2 original batting gloves
X1 original limited edition batting pads
X1 original easi load bag
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With the upmost respect to GM and all GM fans, Paul and IJC sponsor the forum whereas GM does not. Therefore those criticising Paul should remember he pays towards the running of the forum.
The fact that he is a sponsor should not mean that we have to accept his views without question. (http://)
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Edward any chance these bats in the photos will be available to buy through retailers, some of them look lovely( if so left octane 808) is mine) ;)
The bats displayed at the launch are typical production.
Kind regards
Edward
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Perhaps a silly question, but just wanted to ask about the weights specified in that catalogue. It says naked weight which according to GM is 3oz less than the finished weight(Page 3). Just so I understand it right, as an example a 3lb bat (at the maximum end of the GM scale) would weigh in at roughly 3lb 3oz then when it comes to the retailer/end consumer. Is my understanding correct?
No - what we are saying is be careful that you are comparing like with like when looking at bat weights. Some brands quote weights or ranges with essentially an unfinished bat, as they don't count stickers, face treatments, toe protectors etc. All of that can add about 3 oz to the weight as delivered to you in a retail store.
Kind regards
Edward
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Edward
I know I'm in the minority here but why do gm not do long blades as I used a hero happily for years but now I have switched to long blade with my height I have been unable to use gm anymore?
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They do from a distributor.
In my opinion, GM are the most consistent of the big brands in terms of quality control. Yes, you still get the odd REAL gem and odd dud. I've seen many gems, (Favourite being the trial Flare OLE at Vitas) don't think I've actually ever seen a dud, but they really are the most consistent of the big brands. That being said, I can see where IJC are coming from in the hand picking part, in that they want what they deem the best, and most suitable for preorders in terms of weight. (The lack of a value for weight issue is probably the deal breaker) But I can also see that not letting anyone hand pick is also fair on GM's part, which benefits all retailers fairly. Also, with regards to customers coming to pick their own personal bat, they pay RRP prices, which helps retailers as they're more likely going to just pick one out from a retailer and save between 10-20%! If they want to spend that extra, then fair enough, their money!
One question for Mr Lowy, will you be able to provide bats with just the natural finish? I know that the Australian market have some of these (Good friend from HK got a gem of a Mogul from Aussie without the scuff or the toe guard) and I prefer it. Of course, maybe research shows that almost all of the GM users in the UK prefer the GM NOW, in which case it would be pointless offering this option, but one can always hope! :)
Oh, and another! Will you ever be able to match a retailer's request for a specific weight? I understand that pick up is the most important, but having picked up a 2.11-2.12 which I could have sworn was a 2.8, (Again, same Flare mentioned above) I can see that there is a slight flaw in just using the PI, as dead weight does play a factor as an innings drags on!
Thanks for the questions Chad :
1 we don't sell direct to consumers, we only supply the trade
2 you are quite right about the preference for GM Now and ToeTek as standard in he UK. We can do other configurations but need to do so in batches with a minimum quantity.
3 we send ranges of bat weights to retailers, we don't tend to supply specific weights
I could understand how this could a sound rather proscriptive - it isn't really in practise and all comes back to the fact that trees don't seem to listen to us when they are growing that "could we only have 2 lbs 6 oz straight grained bats please"!
Kind regards
Edward
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We get long blades here in Australia, not sure hat the issue is in the UK.
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They don't allow it.
Until recently with Spartan at least. I'm not sure when in 2014 they started offering it, but it was mid season.
More difficult I guess with stickering operations who just buy generic output from Indian factories to maintain standards of shape etc. As you all know, many Indian makers will just scoop out more and more wood to get to a weight - that's fine, you get the weight, but not the shape. Our preference is to maintain the shape at the expense of potentially grading that blade a little lower.
Kind regards
Edward
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Been an observer on the forum for a long time, this topic has prompted me to join. I am involved in the industry but will not promote/favour/mention anything I am involved in, if cricket is doing well then it's all good by me.
Great range, nice to see GM adding a bit of colour into the softs. The Sigma is a little bit 'look what we can do with our machine' - but that in itself is good because although you do promote DXM and provide lots of info in the catalogue, I doubt the average joe truly knows what the CNC is capable of, or indeed what it means (uniformity of shape bat after bat etc.)
It seems to me that in recent times the range has a bat where all the experiments are carried out. ie the Zona carried a really funky shape and also the brand new logo style. If it had been either the funky shape or the logo I think it would have sold well, to have 2 radically different things launching on one bat was probably a bit too much for most. Similarly the Sigma with the logo milling on the back, scooping/weight removal as well as the digi-camo graphics is a little bit too much crammed into one bat in my opinion. Equally you can't launch a load of experimental bats into a range to test the waters, there is only so much room after all. Look at GN, the Vortex is gone after a season and the Nemesis only just clings on with vastly toned down graphics.
The topic has been spoiled somewhat by the unnecessary input from an previous stockist. To demand handpicking from one of the biggest and best, a brand who puts all their passion and energy into making bats in the UK and providing the very best they can for every price point is rather strange when you don't from Affinity. With the greatest of respect to Marcus who does provide wonderful luxury products that really do the business, he's only been around for 5 minutes, yet you imply that you trust him more than the only major brand still not relying on anyone else except themselves to provide English Willow cricket bats. GN, Kookaburra and the rest all definitely need to be handpicked, simply because quality control in India (whilst vastly improved) is not to the same level.
Very interesting post Mr (or Ms) Inside - you are right about us using Zona & Sigma as technical showcases. That is not to undermine these items at all, they are both excellent bats in their own right but can be considered niche and, we hope, are items that start conversations with trade customers and cricketers alike. They will be collectors items.
I cast my mind back to our introduction of Zona two years ago - particularly the clear, bold branding provoked some interesting reactions - marriage at one end, burst blood vessels and the imminent destruction of the GM brand at the other. However, this was part of a controlled, managed evolution of the brand started for the 2013 season, developed for 2014, maturing in 2015. I look back at some of the threads around our 2013 & 2014 range launches with great interest and am pleased that some of the doubters then seem more benign this time around.
I was asked earlier in the thread about Sigma in terms of the weight distribution zones :
1 the depth of the zones is engineered to maintain a specific depth with every bat that we manufacture, and with our DXM process we can ensure that every bat has the same depth in each zone.
2 the Sigma outer profile is not concaved - the overall depth is not much greater than that of a concaved bat, and the specific sectors have been chosen to aid both weight distribution and maintain the performance of each bat at the sweetspot.
You know, sometimes a brand will support their new item with a heap of pseudo scientific iffybabble. We are not seeking to do that here, we are using our experience (129 years and counting) of willow and blade performance to have the wood where you need it and to ensure that in manufacture we deliver consistency of production.
Kind regards
Edward
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Edward
I know I'm in the minority here but why do gm not do long blades as I used a hero happily for years but now I have switched to long blade with my height I have been unable to use gm anymore?
Hi Roco - we can do, of course, but need to make more than 1 in a batch. When we look at our stats, whilst we absolutely understand that there is a demand for different configurations, it is very modest and very splintered. Just supply and demand I'm afraid - in truth, not many of our pros use such an option and they all seem to be getting taller!
Kind regards
Edward
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I thought as much
Shame really but I understand the business thinking behind it
Thanks for taking time to answer the questions
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I thought as much
Shame really but I understand the business thinking behind it
Thanks for taking time to answer the questions
No problem at all. Now out you go and put willow to leather!
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Hi Roco - we can do, of course, but need to make more than 1 in a batch. When we look at our stats, whilst we absolutely understand that there is a demand for different configurations, it is very modest and very splintered. Just supply and demand I'm afraid - in truth, not many of our pros use such an option and they all seem to be getting taller!
Kind regards
Edward
That surprises me a little, here in Australia our LB sales seem to be ever increasing.
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as a devout user of long blades or handles, it saddens me that so many manufacturers no longer seem to make them, though I suppose Edward makes a reasonable point if there is so little demand. Out of interest though, how has that demand changed over the years?
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I'm still a bit confused about grading. Wood with colour on one edge is classified Grade 2 by GM; yet such willow is clearly what many pros have favoured in recent times.
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What is the minimum batch run? I fancy a long blade sigma and would love to know how many I'd need to buy to get long blades...
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What is the minimum batch run? I fancy a long blade sigma and would love to know how many I'd need to buy to get long blades...
This is a custom bats forum, after all?
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Edward, are the original gloves (light blue) exactly the same for 2015 as the ones for this season? They look the same but wondered if there were any slight differences?
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Edward, are the original gloves (light blue) exactly the same for 2015 as the ones for this season? They look the same but wondered if there were any slight differences?
With Poron XRD for 2015!
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Thanks for the answer. Given that nowhere seems to be reducing the 2014 version just yet I'll order the 2015 version from jake. Out of interest what weight impact (positive or negative) does the poron have?
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Think the new 2015 gear looks really good! May have to get some of this for next season!
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Great thread and great new range by GM.
Personally I loved the Zona (shape as well as look)- the earlier person has hit the nail on the head. "Zona was too much change for one model". It picked exceptionally well for a bottom heavy bat. In hindsight Zona in six6 colors would have been perfect. 2020 vision now and all that. Appealing to the young ones and the bit older ones(young at heart) too!
We get long blades here in Australia, not sure hat the issue is in the UK.
I can understand if someone is pretty tall but here in Australia there is an extra fascination with Long Blades and long handles as well. "She's easier on the back maaaete!" Lol
So GM long blades are available in Australia but not in UK?
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Not surprisingly, a fair few GMs being used in the notts v yorkies match, have to say they look quality. I think its the white label that sets the bats off, the softs finish it off nicely just the right amount of colour. Glad i placed my order for my first dip into GM.
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Lyth's and Lees bats in the first innings sounded like guns going off in the big empty stadium. Like the fact GM have used the new stickers across the whole range this year.
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Hi Edward
Except for the colour different colour scheme for 2015 are there any othe major changes/differences on the Original easi load wheelie?
Kind Regards
Hennie
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Not surprisingly, a fair few GMs being used in the notts v yorkies match, have to say they look quality. I think its the white label that sets the bats off, the softs finish it off nicely just the right amount of colour. Glad i placed my order for my first dip into GM.
they've certainly achieved what they set out to as regards the brand being recognisable on telly etc.
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This is my first post on here so be kind.... As my nickmane on here suggests I have a fascination with Gunn and Moore and have since the days of the Steve Waugh pulling apart attacks with his GM bats that give me fond memeories as a youngster. We seem to be blessed most years in experiencing some of the new models for example in Australia the Mogul this year due to the timing of our summer. I can see that there is a streamlining of the stickers of the 2015 range and have to say I am impressed that they have made this branding choice as I know particularly in Australia they are quite popular. Keep up the good work GM and I look forward to getting over to the UK and seeing the 2015 range when I come to play Village over there.
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This is my first post on here so be kind.... As my nickmane on here suggests I have a fascination with Gunn and Moore and have since the days of the Steve Waugh pulling apart attacks with his GM bats that give me fond memeories as a youngster. We seem to be blessed most years in experiencing some of the new models for example in Australia the Mogul this year due to the timing of our summer. I can see that there is a streamlining of the stickers of the 2015 range and have to say I am impressed that they have made this branding choice as I know particularly in Australia they are quite popular. Keep up the good work GM and I look forward to getting over to the UK and seeing the 2015 range when I come to play Village over there.
Welcome Tragic, great name!
Glad you like the brand evolution - it is all about "Let's be clear. We make bats".
Kind regards
Edward
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Thanks for the questions Chad :
1 we don't sell direct to consumers, we only supply the trade
2 you are quite right about the preference for GM Now and ToeTek as standard in he UK. We can do other configurations but need to do so in batches with a minimum quantity.
3 we send ranges of bat weights to retailers, we don't tend to supply specific weights
I could understand how this could a sound rather proscriptive - it isn't really in practise and all comes back to the fact that trees don't seem to listen to us when they are growing that "could we only have 2 lbs 6 oz straight grained bats please"!
Kind regards
Edward
Thanks for answering my questions, Edward! If you could make a batch of Aura 808s with the natural finish, with a couple of 2.10s with a pick up index of 2, and send them to Vitas, that would be great! :D ;)
Again, great job with the range!
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Hi Edward
Except for the colour different colour scheme for 2015 are there any othe major changes/differences on the Original easi load wheelie?
Kind Regards
Hennie
Two tone all terrain wheels are new on top of the existing terrific spec and quality
Kind regards
Edward
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As I said in the Lord's thread, I had a good look at the new GM range today, and I have to say I was very impressed. There is a lovely array of shapes in there, and they all pick-up really well for me! I also think the decals are vastly improved from previous years and I liked the fact that the face cambers aren't as confusing now, with the F4.5 being pretty much the default option nowadays, and far more prominent than the F2 and F7. The Original Duffle was another highlight for me - quite possibly the most organised duffle I have ever seen - and a nice addition to the range.
I also like the way they demonstrated the benefits of Poron XRD on the stand, and the difference this foam provides for protection is really eye opening!
So, although we still won't stock your bats, Edward, I would like to congratulate you on the range.
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Paul, I've sent you a message asking for some photos I would like to see (if available). Would be helpful if you could reply asap or are you only replying through email?
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Paul, I've sent you a message asking for some photos I would like to see (if available). Would be helpful if you could reply asap or are you only replying through email?
Just replied, mate - sorry for the delay (still playing catch up!)
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Sorry to drag up an old thread.
A question for those that have seen the duffle bag, the bat pockets on the side, are they padded at all etc? or could you get a bat cover inside them?
Taking a bat on the tube is a scary thing!
Cheers.
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Sorry to drag up an old thread.
A question for those that have seen the duffle bag, the bat pockets on the side, are they padded at all etc? or could you get a bat cover inside them?
Taking a bat on the tube is a scary thing!
Cheers.
They are padded but they can still take a bat in a bat cover - hope that helps
Kind regards
Edward
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Best of both worlds then!
My duffle has taken a right beating this year, so will probably invest in a new one and the GM is leading the way at the moment.
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They are padded but they can still take a bat in a bat cover - hope that helps
Kind regards
Edward
Thanks Edward! Looking forward to receiving mine!!
Cheers.
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Thanks Edward! Looking forward to receiving mine!!
Cheers.
Your order is at the top of my pre-order pile mate :)
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So when is one going to appear on the forum?
http://www.allroundercricket.com/cricket-bats/Gunn-and-Moore-Cricket-Bats/sigma-cricket-bats/sigma-808-5-star-cricket-bat (http://www.allroundercricket.com/cricket-bats/Gunn-and-Moore-Cricket-Bats/sigma-cricket-bats/sigma-808-5-star-cricket-bat)
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So when is one going to appear on the forum?
[url]http://www.allroundercricket.com/cricket-bats/Gunn-and-Moore-Cricket-Bats/sigma-cricket-bats/sigma-808-5-star-cricket-bat[/url] ([url]http://www.allroundercricket.com/cricket-bats/Gunn-and-Moore-Cricket-Bats/sigma-cricket-bats/sigma-808-5-star-cricket-bat[/url])
When I've seen one in the flesh. For some reason, the GN scooped bats appear (to me at least) to be organic and natural. In the pictures, these look like features added to show the DXM capabilities rather than part of the natural form of the bat. Having said that, the Zona in pictures looked awful, but the one I picked up and waved around was lovely. Hence why I'd like to see one!
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Reminds of a Puma from a few years back. I agree with Tim, the scooping doesn't follow the flow of the blade.
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I'm certainly not a fan but thought we would have seen at least one on the forum by now
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I'll have one in my hands in around 15 mins.
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Pictures or it isn't true!! ;)
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Think the scoops will grow on me in a little bit of time but I love the GM carved out at the bottom, Wish they could do one range with no stickers but just carving using the machines they have.
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Sorry the photos aren't great - they were taken with my iPhone.
(http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r676/vinay34/40ED88C6-8292-4826-86AF-F6E82802A246_zpsr0f95jev.jpg)
(http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r676/vinay34/C459DE21-9B31-493C-B9F0-EF73EF0CABD6_zpsbswy5yt3.jpg)
(http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r676/vinay34/0EF9A210-798D-4FF9-9BBB-7CF4480EFDB1_zpssnoenzhh.jpg)
(http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r676/vinay34/9C265112-E50F-4D08-8F93-A7664940DEF7_zpspnqq5e4c.jpg)
(http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r676/vinay34/F3029B6F-9BA8-497F-9985-736533B2AD22_zpsxrzklcrs.jpg)
(http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r676/vinay34/54077C9B-A960-4DB9-9734-587B3644DC7A_zpsdf76xste.jpg)
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I note that the sticker says "Hand Made in England by Gunn and Moore since 1885". Really? What's this DXM then?
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Not a fan personally of the scoops or colour scheme. Nice looking bat though mate
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Not a fan personally of the scoops or colour scheme. Nice looking bat though mate
Bat has a good feel to it, but agreed the scoop design takes some getting used to.
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Bat has a good feel to it, but agreed the scoop design takes some getting used to.
What is the edge and spine height and weight of this one? just to get an idea of size. Toe looks fairly thick.
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The more I look at it, the more I like it. Especially the GM logo at the toe
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I don't like that, too much going on and they've removed wood from the toe which is already a vulnerable area.
I know a skinny toe isn't an issue, but a toe with scoops out of it is a different discussion isn't it?
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Is it just the pictures or is the finishing a little off on the CNC'd bit? Might be just the lunchtime beers setting in! (We have a good excuse, colleagues birthday...)
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Is it just the pictures or is the finishing a little off on the CNC'd bit? Might be just the lunchtime beers setting in! (We have a good excuse, colleagues birthday...)
You need an excuse?
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For a Tuesday it is a debatable one...
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Love GM for doing something different and taking a risk but I feel like the scoops are more for looks over performance. I would love to know the reasioning for the shape and positioning of the scoops.
A smaller version of the GM logo would look good on all bats I think.
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A smaller version of the GM logo would look good on all bats I think.
Smaller, and not as deep!
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Love GM for doing something different and taking a risk but I feel like the scoops are more for looks over performance. I would love to know the reasioning for the shape and positioning of the scoops.
A smaller version of the GM logo would look good on all bats I think.
From what I understand, the scoops don't help or hinder the bats performance. They are there simply to reduce bat weight and therefore allow for a bigger profile.
I think they had a few scoop designs in mind, but finally decided on the this one.
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At the trade show I was told that the scoops were there mainly because it shows off what the GM bat makers can do! I guess it has the added benefit of reducing weight, but this wasn't the main concern of the rep I was speaking to...
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The CNC logo is cool. But the design of the scoops looks like something from a CAD operator's first CAD lesson...
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Well, at least they're trying something different, I suppose, unlike other brands that put out the same old, restickered bats year after year. I like the look of it.
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Okay so I know this thread is a little old, but for those of you watching Sa vs Wi; have you noticed De Kock's mogul's sticker says "PRO Limited Edition"....Is this now a grade better than OLE? As the website doesn't say anything about it....I can try get pics if you guys want. :-[
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Okay so I know this thread is a little old, but for those of you watching Sa vs Wi; have you noticed De Kock's mogul's sticker says "PRO Limited Edition"....Is this now a grade better than OLE? As the website doesn't say anything about it....I can try get pics if you guys want. :-[
They are issued to pro players only. perkins17 who works for GM said about those a while back.
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Oh okay, thanks a lot :D
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You can a Maestro Pro in Australia which is a grade above OLE