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General Cricket => World Cricket => England => Topic started by: Manormanic on March 16, 2015, 07:43:17 AM
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Having had "enough" of the hit and giggle stuff, England now face a potential banana skin of a trip to the West Indies as they kick off a nine month period that sees them play 17 test matches including an Ashes series and a tour to South Africa. Noises coming out of the ECB seem to suggest that the batting unit will remain unchanged, with Jonathan Trott being the annointed extra man, though there have since been injuries to Moeen Ali and Chris Woakes that will affect the make up of a tour party that will have to play on some pretty flat wickets.
Time to play "If I Were James Whitaker"
My starting line up would be:
Ali Cook (c, reluctantly)
Adam Lyth
Gary Ballance
Ian Bell
Joe Root
Ben Stokes
Jos Buttler
Adil Rashid
Liam Plunkett
James Anderson
Mark Footitt
In addition to the 11 above, I'd take James Vince as the back up batsman, Adam Riley for the experience and Stuart Broad and Mark Wood as back up seamers. Trott needs to do a bit more to come into contention for me - just bringing him back on the basis of one innings for the Lions would smack of the old boys network, and the fact is that Lyth's volume of runs over the last eighteen months - not to mention his stylsh play and exceptional hands int eh slips - mean that he has got to be given a shot.
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Trott isn't coming back on the back of one knock, he scored very heavily in the championship in the back end of the season
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I would like them to pick a side something like:
Cook
Lyth
Balance
Root
Bell
Ali (if fit)
Buttler
Rashid
Woakes (if fit)
Broad
Anderson
with Taylor, Stokes, Finn and Footitt in reserve.
Think that side gives us a nice balance of youth and experience. Gone with 2 spinners as pitches will be flat. As mentioned above Lyth has earned the right to open the batting for the next 6-8 tests.
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Trott isn't coming back on the back of one knock, he scored very heavily in the championship in the back end of the season
620 at 47 is good but hardly remarkable - its some way behind Lyth but also less than "one day specialist" Alex Hales managed...
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I think the ECB will go for experience over anything else and will look at the West Indies tour as building stability ahead of this years ashes following a disastrous World Cup.
I can see Trott in there opening the batting for the tests 100%
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If lyth isntbin the team, somethings gone seriously wrong with the selectors.
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can see Trott in there opening the batting for the tests 100%
If that happens, I've had it with English cricket. Picking a guy well into his 30s who has previously left a major tour due to stress in a role that he has never performed before over younger, more talented and experienced openers would be a travesty.
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My Starting xi
Cook - Picked because he's still capt and deserves this WI/NZ test to save his career
Trott - I am picking him because he appears to be 'better' and was the unsung hero of England when they were good. Also, I'm a firm believer is blooding your new players (even openers) at six for a few series so trott can open for 2 more years hopefully and provide stability, experience etc
Ballance - I'm sticking with Ballance because he's done well at 3 and deserves to keep his place
Root - This lad appears to be our best player able to adapt playing top order style and stroke making middle order style. Also had a good 12-18 months overall so keeps his place
Bell - Classy test batsmen. Ok, I don't rate the guy enough to push him up the order because I don't think he delivers under pressure enough but at 5. he's nailed on.
Lyth - This is my 'looking to the future' pick. He's the next test opener potentially off the rank so to speak and with cook out of form and trott 33 England need to blood another opener (proper one!) so that by the end of 2015 he is mentally used to test cricket
Prior - IF fit and does well in the early county games I'd have him back. Why over Buttler?? Because Buttler is NOT a test player and Prior is. I don't really care about the ages because I want a TEST quality keeper/batsmen. Buttler isn't as good behind the stumps or with the bat.
Ali - if fit. He's able to contribute with the bat but his spin is coming on really well
Liam Plunkett - under rated bowler for England. pace, bounce etc
Mark footitt - pace etc. time to give some new lads a go
Anderson - still our best swing bowler although IF the wickets etc don't offer the swing then maybe look to withdraw him and play Stokes. Yes he's not a full frontline bowler yet but tbh, it's WI and he should be good enough and it'll keep bringing him on.
Should KP come back for the ashes.. now that would really pile the pressure on Cook as we could push Bell/Root to open and slot KP in at 5
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With Downton, Whitaker and Moores under pressure, they are going to go for the safe options. They've always gone with what they know and I don't see that changing.
Given the (relative) lack of success with Compton, Carberry and Robson and the scale of the opposition this year, I think they'll go with Trott, in the same way the Aussies went with Rogers (illness aside). They will view the Lions tour for Trott as a success and who knows they may well find it's the right decision.
I think Lyth will tour and has to be an option moving forward. I don't think he'll be the front runner for the opener slot in the Windies though, the selectors are too risk-averse.
Whether the current selectors, MD and coach are around to select the NZ and Ashes squads is anyone's guess...
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My Starting xi
Cook - Picked because he's still capt and deserves this WI/NZ test to save his career
Trott - I am picking him because he appears to be 'better' and was the unsung hero of England when they were good. Also, I'm a firm believer is blooding your new players (even openers) at six for a few series so trott can open for 2 more years hopefully and provide stability, experience etc
Ballance - I'm sticking with Ballance because he's done well at 3 and deserves to keep his place
Root - This lad appears to be our best player able to adapt playing top order style and stroke making middle order style. Also had a good 12-18 months overall so keeps his place
Bell - Classy test batsmen. Ok, I don't rate the guy enough to push him up the order because I don't think he delivers under pressure enough but at 5. he's nailed on.
Lyth - This is my 'looking to the future' pick. He's the next test opener potentially off the rank so to speak and with cook out of form and trott 33 England need to blood another opener (proper one!) so that by the end of 2015 he is mentally used to test cricket
Prior - IF fit and does well in the early county games I'd have him back. Why over Buttler?? Because Buttler is NOT a test player and Prior is. I don't really care about the ages because I want a TEST quality keeper/batsmen. Buttler isn't as good behind the stumps or with the bat.
Ali - if fit. He's able to contribute with the bat but his spin is coming on really well
Liam Plunkett - under rated bowler for England. pace, bounce etc
Mark footitt - pace etc. time to give some new lads a go
Anderson - still our best swing bowler although IF the wickets etc don't offer the swing then maybe look to withdraw him and play Stokes. Yes he's not a full frontline bowler yet but tbh, it's WI and he should be good enough and it'll keep bringing him on.
Should KP come back for the ashes.. now that would really pile the pressure on Cook as we could push Bell/Root to open and slot KP in at 5
Some interesting thoughts...but would an attack of Anderson, Footitt, Plunkett and Ali give you enough bowling really?
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Do we specifically know what the Ali and Woakes injuries are, and how long they are out for - as I would have both of them in my side?
Also, a like for like replacement for Ali might possibly be Borthwick? Difficult though, as Rashid is the better bowler, and Borthwick the better bat :)
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Do we specifically know what the Ali and Woakes injuries are, and how long they are out for - as I would have both of them in my side?
Also, a like for like replacement for Ali might possibly be Borthwick? Difficult though, as Rashid is the better bowler, and Borthwick the better bat :)
Got the impression that Woakes was a stress fracture and out until NZ at least.
Can't agree that Borthwick is the beter bat of the two though - he may bat higher for Durham than Rashid does for Yorkshire, but their records would support Rashid.
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I'd certainly give a test or two to some new bowlers and an opener. I'd rather draw a couple of tests in the WI than lose the dangerous series vs NZ directly before the Ashes.
The talk is of resting bowlers in particular - give Anderson and Broad at least one of three tests off - preferably the second or third so they can fly home and prep for the summer (if they HAVE to rest...) and get used to English pitches again.
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Some interesting thoughts...but would an attack of Anderson, Footitt, Plunkett and Ali give you enough bowling really?
3 seam
1 spin
then you have
Part time Root, Trott if you need a few overs. IF you made me fit another bowler in there then Bell would be dropped for Stokes. Reasoning is that I'd rather blood lyth against WI (who are pretty crap), and we know what Bell can do so having him there isn't really achieving anything.
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3 seam
1 spin
then you have
But of your four, one is a converted part timer, whilst two are most used to the raw paceman's role. That could lead to Anderson bowling way more overs than would be ideal in the circumstances...
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But of your four, one is a converted part timer, whilst two are most used to the raw paceman's role. That could lead to Anderson bowling way more overs than would be ideal in the circumstances...
It's the WI, if these guys aren't up to taking out them then tbh, they probably aren't good enough and should be discarded for a few years to mature more. you have to throw people in and see what happens. I'd rather they do that and we lose/draw the series than persist with Broad and co blindly.
ali is improving in fairness, I grant you he isn't a 'frontline' spinner yet but he's getting there.
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Could England do something really drastic and go for something like:
Lyth
Vince
Ballance
Root*
Taylor
Hales
Butler+
Moeen
Stokes
Plunkett
Finn
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Could England do something really drastic and go for something like:
Lyth
Vince
Ballance
Root*
Taylor
Hales
Butler+
Moeen
Stokes
Plunkett
Finn
why buttler? What's he done to show he's the best keeper or even a test batsmen? Finn is bowling plod too, he needs sacking off until he bowls 90+ again
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why buttler? What's he done to show he's the best keeper or even a test batsmen? Finn is bowling plod too, he needs sacking off until he bowls 90+ again
Butler because he is the established gloveman right now. Maybe Sam Billings or Michael Bates (yes I know he is without a county at the moment) instead.
And as for Finn, what better way to get some confidence back in your bowling than to actually bowl?
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Butler because he is the established gloveman right now. Maybe Sam Billings or Michael Bates (yes I know he is without a county at the moment) instead.
And as for Finn, what better way to get some confidence back in your bowling than to actually bowl?
bowl in county cricket, club cricket too. if not more
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What is with people's insistence in getting Ben Stokes in the team and then always putting him down at 8 or 9?
He's not a frontline bowler, far from it, he's a batsman who can bowl. He's more in the Jaques Kallis mould than the Freddie Flintoff (although i appreciates he's nowhere near the class of Kallis)
Bat him at 6 and have his influence on the game that way. His bowling should be seen as a bonus on top of his batting, not the other way round.
For the record i'd go:
Cook
Lyth
Ballance
Root
Bell
Ali / Stokes (Pitch Dependant)
Butler
Rashid
Footitt
Anderson
Marc Wood
With the spare 4 as Taylor, Broad, Plunkett and whichever of Stokes or Ali isn't playing
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Butler because he is the established gloveman right now. Maybe Sam Billings or Michael Bates (yes I know he is without a county at the moment) instead.
erm, Bairstow? Wheater? Foakes? Davies? Surely all ahead of BAtes and probabaly Billings too, at least in tests.
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erm, Bairstow? Wheater? Foakes? Davies? Surely all ahead of BAtes and probabaly Billings too, at least in tests.
You get the idea, someone young enough they'll be in the side for years! Wheater is a good shout ;)
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some interesting posts on here re the test side..it's actually fairly settled,there are not really many places up for grabs.I think we can say Prior is not going to come back and Buttler will be the keeper going forward
guys like liam plunkett im sure will get on the tour,and maybe Rashid.
I think myself the opening spot is the one that will show whether England are prepared to move forward(for the one dayers I genuinely believe the world cup was a watershed)
for me it's Lyth or Lees from Yorkshire in place of Robson. Should England overlook those two and go for Trott instead?
I would have either Lyth or Lees first choice to move forward maybe with Trott as a back up batsman.
The next big question is what to do with Ben Stokes......it's time to put him in and leave him in,that's the only way to develop....
What I want to see now as an England fan is backing for younger guys with talent, and STICKING with them.That's going to take long term planning and a bit of guts from the selectors
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I think England need to start planning for the summer in these 3 windies tests. To beat NZ and Aus, their best bet is to produce slow turning surfaces to nullify the oppo pace attacks - pretty much what the Windies have been producing for a while. This means 2 spinners and 3 seamers. Anderson, Broad +1 on the seam front and Ali+ 1 on the spin front. Has to be somebody who turn the ball away and ideally score runs with the bat when it's not turning. Rashid would be my punt. Batting wise, Trott for Robson.
Cook
Trott
Ballance
Root
Bell
Ali
Buttler
Rashid
Plunkett
Broad
Anderson
I would take Stokes for the seam friendly decks, Lyth as backup opener, Finn as a backup for Broad/Anderson. Given it's a fairly tight schedule with 1 or 2 warm up games, I think anybody else would be wasted and get little or no game time. Probably worth a punt on a couple of young players for experience. Footit isn't young but has pace and is a leftie and perhaps Billings as a backup gloveman/middle order batter. Best indicator is to look at who performed on the "A" tour.
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Trott is an interesting choice....I have to say me personally I would look forward, the guy has been a very good player for us but the way he left the Ashes tour did not seem quite right.If he has a stress illness then needs all the support he can get-and I hope he does recover fully...
but it's whether England now look to the future,if Balance or Root were struggling I might think differently but both are quality and bat (balance does anyway) in Trott's old position.....
I think England will name Trott in the tour party on Wednesday but unless he opens there's no spot.
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if he opens it just sends the wrong message to any potential England aspirants in the county game - "work your nuts off, improve, score loads of runs...and we'll still parachute a washed up guy with a checkered past in out of position ahead of you just because he's one of the gang".
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if he opens it just sends the wrong message to any potential England aspirants in the county game - "work your nuts off, improve, score loads of runs...and we'll still parachute a washed up guy with a checkered past in out of position ahead of you just because he's one of the gang".
washed up...checkered, I don't think these words correctly reflect Trott. I expect he is working just as hard as everyone else and has done so throughout his career.
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England selection should go on form for your county. If Adam Lyth doesn't get a shot after last season then there is something seriously wrong. Give him the chance, it is then upto him to justify his selection!
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If that happens, I've had it with English cricket. Picking a guy well into his 30s who has previously left a major tour due to stress in a role that he has never performed before over younger, more talented and experienced openers would be a travesty.
Trott is the same age as Michael Clarke, Mitchell Johnson and Shane Watson..... They all played u19s against each other. They seem to be doing ok
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Food for thought?
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling_by_team.html?id=9199;team=1003;type=series (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling_by_team.html?id=9199;team=1003;type=series)
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yep those stats are interesting.
here's another one for you -
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/bowling/most_wickets_career.html?id=9637;type=tournament (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/bowling/most_wickets_career.html?id=9637;type=tournament)
all of the top 5 wicket takers in the Windies Regional Comp (Jamica etc..) are spinners!!
that tells me with all the data analysis that the England team do ;) we should be playing 2 spinners - probably Rashid for me (along with Ali)
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I cant see them doing anything too drastic tbh. Can see Trott coming back in but other than i wouldnt be too surprised if the rest of the test team stayed the same as the final test against India.
How did Lyth get on with the lions? Think he and a few others (Rashid, Billings as backup keeper maybe?) may get into the touring squad for some experience
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Personally I would rather see us to with some youth and lose trying the the crap we have had to watch for a while. stokes, Lyth, Mills (the bloke can be our Mitch some days awful other days too much to handle) rashid or Riley.
Also look at the ODI squad and play the player were looking at for next WC so Bell-Drummond, billings, Roy, Vince and such like
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yep those stats are interesting.
here's another one for you -
[url]http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/bowling/most_wickets_career.html?id=9637;type=tournament[/url] ([url]http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/bowling/most_wickets_career.html?id=9637;type=tournament[/url])
all of the top 5 wicket takers in the Windies Regional Comp (Jamica etc..) are spinners!!
that tells me with all the data analysis that the England team do ;) we should be playing 2 spinners - probably Rashid for me (along with Ali)
could do worse than wheel out Panesar if it's turning. Still the best spinner we have.
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The 2nd spinner question is an interesting one because they have a genuine chance of playing and doing well rather than just going on tour and carrying the drinks.
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Cook
Trott
Balance
Bell
Root
Ali
Buttler
Broad
Kerrigan
Anderson
Finn
Robson, Lyth, Taylor, Stokes, Borthwick, Jordan and Woakes to make up an 18 man squad.
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Sorry but Finn is unelectable until he sorts his run up and action out and bowls quick again. It is a 2 test tour of the windies, so 14/5 players tops should go.
The batters will be
cook, trott, ballance, bell, root, Ali plus Robson and Taylor.
Keepers will be butler and Bairstow
bowlers will be
broad, Anderson, Jordan, plunkett plus another spinner.
All the talk is the spinner will be Rashid. I think it should be panasar.
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Personally I would rather see us to with some youth and lose trying the the crap we have had to watch for a while. stokes, Lyth, Mills (the bloke can be our Mitch some days awful other days too much to handle) rashid or Riley.
Also look at the ODI squad and play the player were looking at for next WC so Bell-Drummond, billings, Roy, Vince and such like
Bell Drummond is surely nowhere near an England call up, he's never really kicked on and has a log way to go to get in a lions squad if you ask me. Got your kent rose tinted glasses on by any chance? :-)
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West Indies will probably have dry pitches for the series, considering England are pretty hapless against spin.
Guyanese duo Devendra Bishoo and Veerasammy Permaul have taken over 100 wickets between them in the ongoing regional FC competition.
England WILL need 2 spinners.
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Rashid and Ali presumably.
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Sorry but Finn is unelectable until he sorts his run up and action out and bowls quick again. It is a 2 test tour of the windies, so 14/5 players tops should go.
The batters will be
cook, trott, ballance, bell, root, Ali plus Robson and Taylor.
Keepers will be butler and Bairstow
bowlers will be
broad, Anderson, Jordan, plunkett plus another spinner.
All the talk is the spinner will be Rashid. I think it should be panasar.
I think Buzz is pretty much spot on with what it will be, apart from they may think Robson is done and give Lyth a chance.
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Food for thought?
[url]http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling_by_team.html?id=9199;team=1003;type=series[/url] ([url]http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling_by_team.html?id=9199;team=1003;type=series[/url])
Limited because it was only a two test series and the pitches will have skewed the numbers even more. Trott got 200 on a featherbed and nothing in testing conditions.
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I would like them to pick a side something like:
Cook
Lyth
Balance
Root
Bell
Ali (if fit)
Buttler
Rashid
Woakes (if fit)
Broad
Anderson
with Taylor, Stokes, Finn and Footitt in reserve.
Think that side gives us a nice balance of youth and experience. Gone with 2 spinners as pitches will be flat. As mentioned above Lyth has earned the right to open the batting for the next 6-8 tests.
If the pitches are going to be flat then why pick woakes? To be honest I would leave Broad or Anderson behind to. if we are to beat Australia then surely it won't be taking on their pace attack . If we are to get our pitches as slow turners then we need to blood a few more slower bowlers. Rashid just doesn't bowl tight enough to be considered a test match bowler.
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I think Buzz is pretty much spot on with what it will be, apart from they may think Robson is done and give Lyth a chance.
Not far off. They'll take five seamers, though.
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When is the squad actually announced?
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Cook
Trott
Balance
Bell
Root
Ali
Buttler
Broad
Kerrigan
Anderson
Finn
Robson, Lyth, Taylor, Stokes, Borthwick, Jordan and Woakes to make up an 18 man squad.
Not liking that tail much!
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S'kinda like the classic Caddick, Malcolm, Mullally, Tufnell isn't it? Just need an Ed Giddins in there...
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S'kinda like the classic Caddick, Malcolm, Mullally, Tufnell isn't it? Just need an Ed Giddins in there...
Yes. Nevertheless, I do hope Simon Kerrigan gets another chance sometime.
Think you lot have been harsh on Chris Woakes.
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Joe Root to keep for me something a bit different and bat at 6.
Cook
Trott
Lyth/Taylor
Bell
Vince
Root Wicketkeeper
Stokes
Rashid
Broad
Woakes
Anderson
Harsh on Ballance who would or could bat 3 with the other two.
Bowling not much beyond what picked maybe Finn,Jordan, and a newboy
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15 man squad:
Cook/Trott/Lyth
Ballance/Bell/Root
Ali/Stokes/Rashid
Buttler
Anderson/Woakes/Plunkett/Wood/Mills (Broad needs some serious time off if he's gonna make it past another two years in international cricket)
Possibly take Panesar instead of Rashid or a seamer, and a spare keeper instead of a seamer.
Team:
Cook, Trott, Ballance, Bell, Root, Stokes, Ali, Buttler, Plunkett, Anderson, Mills. Rashid in for Stokes if it's a spinning deck, Woakes likely to play ahead of Mills. Lots of bowling though so I'd play Mills and just use him as a shock weapon.
Realistically though, the team will be almost identical to the last test of last summer. This is the ECB after all, and in fairness we did well against India.
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15 man squad:
Cook/Trott/Lyth
Ballance/Bell/Root
Ali/Stokes/Rashid
Buttler
Anderson/Woakes/Plunkett/Wood/Mills (Broad needs some serious time off if he's gonna make it past another two years in international cricket)
Possibly take Panesar instead of Rashid or a seamer, and a spare keeper instead of a seamer.
Team:
Cook, Trott, Ballance, Bell, Root, Stokes, Ali, Buttler, Plunkett, Anderson, Mills. Rashid in for Stokes if it's a spinning deck, Woakes likely to play ahead of Mills. Lots of bowling though so I'd play Mills and just use him as a shock weapon.
Realistically though, the team will be almost identical to the last test of last summer. This is the ECB after all, and in fairness we did well against India.
India are hardly the benchmark to be beating the Kiwis or Australia are they?
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Not at all, but if someone's played well in your last series then it's not too likely they'll get dropped! Even if India were terrible as usual.
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What has Mills done to warrant selection?
Bowl heat against England in 2013 then keep the physio busy in 2014?
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India are hardly the benchmark to be beating the Kiwis or Australia are they?
To be pedantic, Kiwis have done well in the CWC but they are not in the same bracket as Australia for either Test or ODI. As for India, they are similar to NZ in the way that they are much better at home usually, but if I had to say which was the better test nation, then yes India would be a benchmark for beating NZ but that's not really the point. The benchmark in all forms is Australia.
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I predict England victory against both to be honest. Take Williamson out of there batting it not a great test side batting.
Australia will be tough but if we get our "CLUBBIES" right we should be ok no matter what the personal.
Longer form of the game i'm not worried
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I predict England victory against both to be honest. Take Williamson out of there batting it not a great test side batting.
Australia will be tough but if we get our "CLUBBIES" right we should be ok no matter what the personal.
Longer form of the game i'm not worried
Sorry Dave but you're deluded if you think England's army of 80mph medium paced dobbers will cut the mustard in Ashes. Unless the pitches are doctored green tops, England's seam attack will be pensioned off.
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To be pedantic, Kiwis have done well in the CWC but they are not in the same bracket as Australia for either Test or ODI. As for India, they are similar to NZ in the way that they are much better at home usually, but if I had to say which was the better test nation, then yes India would be a benchmark for beating NZ but that's not really the point. The benchmark in all forms is Australia.
South Africa's the benchmark in Tests...
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What has Mills done to warrant selection?
Bowl heat against England in 2013
Pretty much, he had our batsmen in all sorts of trouble in the Essex warmup and then battered them all in the nets, hitting pretty much the whole top 6 at will and getting a few of them out too. Plus destroyed pretty much everyone he bowled at on his last lions tour. Clocked at 97mph by the England setup irrc. Needs to be given a go at some point, the ability to put the wind up top class batsmen isn't to be sneezed at. Hopefully moving counties will see him getting more games and progressing on to the England side, if he was Australian he'd probably have played 20 ODIs and 10 tests by now.
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South Africa's the benchmark in Tests...
Pfft!
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What has Mills done to warrant selection?
Bowl heat against England in 2013 then keep the physio busy in 2014?
I'll be interested to see if he makes Sussex's starting XI.
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If Mills is this good, then why hasnt he even come close to setting county cricket alight? Genuine question, as i haven't seen him play much.
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If Mills is this good, then why hasnt he even come close to setting county cricket alight? Genuine question, as i haven't seen him play much.
He's quick. Hasn't taken that many wickets thus far, it has to be said, but there is certainly potential there. Surprised that anyone would take his as their left arm gas over Footitt though, given the latter took a shedload of wickets last season?
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If Mills is this good, then why hasnt he even come close to setting county cricket alight? Genuine question, as i haven't seen him play much.
I don"t think most people have seen him play much.
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Sorry Dave but you're deluded if you think England's army of 80mph medium paced dobbers will cut the mustard in Ashes. Unless the pitches are doctored green tops, England's seam attack will be pensioned off.
Nibble Nibble.
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Sorry Dave but you're deluded if you think England's army of 80mph medium paced dobbers will cut the mustard in Ashes. Unless the pitches are doctored green tops, England's seam attack will be pensioned off.
I have to agree - although there will be no green tops this summer the pitchers will be arid dead waist lands wastelands with more dust on than my under stairs cupboard and a chippy's workshop combined.
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We will see our bowler have done it before Broad and Anderson against this side in England I have faith
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I have to agree - although there will be no green tops this summer the pitchers will be arid dead waist lands with more dust on than my under stairs cupboard and a chippy's workshop combined.
waist lands? ;)
Surely "wastelands"?
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We will see our bowler have done it before Broad and Anderson against this side in England I have faith
Get away from one day international fiascos for a minute and just analyse the two countries as test sides, especially bearing in mind the benefits either way of home conditions, and I think its a more even series than most people think:
Top Order: Davey Warner is dangerous, no doubt, but there is still the suspicion that he is only dangerous when things are going his way. Rogers is someone England are happy bowling at, and there is no clarity about who will bat three for Australia - if the ball swings, expect them to be 2-not many most times. For England, a lot rides on whether Cook can regain some form as he is likely to have an inexperienced partner, though Ballance at three provides quality and stability. A draw.
Middle Order: Australia would point to Smith and Clarke, but one is a permanent injury worry and the other, whilst massively improved, still has exploitable weaknesses. England would point to Root and Bell; more solid possibly, less stunning certainly. England certainly have better back up options, especially if Pietersen does "commit". England, narrowly.
All Round Options: Watson being replaced by Marsh will strengthen Australian bowling but weaken the batting, Maxwell may tour as the second spinner and adds options. Ali is a decent spin option but will get bounced out most games. Australia, narrowly.
Wicketkeeper: Buttler vs Haddin. Youth and constant improvement vs miraculous holding back of the years. This one starts a draw but will be won by whoevers team is on top.
Spin Bowling: Australia have the clubbie Lyon and...not much else. England have the not much less of a clubbie Ali backed by an array of other options (Rashid and Riley the most likely). Englands win here.
Pace Bowling: Anderson is a master of swing bowling in English conditions and will take early wickets, but the fact is that England don't have a whole lot else in the way of proven performers still at their peak - Broad looks old, Tremlett is old, Bresnan had the get in the Yorkshire side as an all rounder last season, Woakes may be crocked and not that good anyway, Finn has forgotten how to bowl fast...unless someone like Plunkett or Footitt can shake Australia... Who have Mitch (who oddly, I suspect may not be a big player in this series) plus the incredible Harris and either Spaceman or HAzlewood in a top class three. Australia's.
Back Up Bowling: Here is where it comes apart - England will be guessing with their seamers, whereas Australia have about eight possibles for the fifth slot - Pattinson, Siddle, Cummins, Abbott, Bird are the seriious ones but Hilfenhaus, Bollinger, Faulkner and a couple more would do a decent job. Australia, clearly.
So there you have it - in most areas a close series until we come to the quicks.
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No-one's picked Alex Hales?
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Get away from one day international fiascos for a minute and just analyse the two countries as test sides, especially bearing in mind the benefits either way of home conditions, and I think its a more even series than most people think:
Top Order: Davey Warner is dangerous, no doubt, but there is still the suspicion that he is only dangerous when things are going his way. Rogers is someone England are happy bowling at, and there is no clarity about who will bat three for Australia - if the ball swings, expect them to be 2-not many most times. For England, a lot rides on whether Cook can regain some form as he is likely to have an inexperienced partner, though Ballance at three provides quality and stability. A draw.
Middle Order: Australia would point to Smith and Clarke, but one is a permanent injury worry and the other, whilst massively improved, still has exploitable weaknesses. England would point to Root and Bell; more solid possibly, less stunning certainly. England certainly have better back up options, especially if Pietersen does "commit". England, narrowly.
All Round Options: Watson being replaced by Marsh will strengthen Australian bowling but weaken the batting, Maxwell may tour as the second spinner and adds options. Ali is a decent spin option but will get bounced out most games. Australia, narrowly.
Wicketkeeper: Buttler vs Haddin. Youth and constant improvement vs miraculous holding back of the years. This one starts a draw but will be won by whoevers team is on top.
Spin Bowling: Australia have the clubbie Lyon and...not much else. England have the not much less of a clubbie Ali backed by an array of other options (Rashid and Riley the most likely). Englands win here.
Pace Bowling: Anderson is a master of swing bowling in English conditions and will take early wickets, but the fact is that England don't have a whole lot else in the way of proven performers still at their peak - Broad looks old, Tremlett is old, Bresnan had the get in the Yorkshire side as an all rounder last season, Woakes may be crocked and not that good anyway, Finn has forgotten how to bowl fast...unless someone like Plunkett or Footitt can shake Australia... Who have Mitch (who oddly, I suspect may not be a big player in this series) plus the incredible Harris and either Spaceman or HAzlewood in a top class three. Australia's.
Back Up Bowling: Here is where it comes apart - England will be guessing with their seamers, whereas Australia have about eight possibles for the fifth slot - Pattinson, Siddle, Cummins, Abbott, Bird are the seriious ones but Hilfenhaus, Bollinger, Faulkner and a couple more would do a decent job. Australia, clearly.
So there you have it - in most areas a close series until we come to the quicks.
Cook -- woefully out of form and has been found out. He'll not recover vs Australia
Robson -- simply not good enough
Ballance -- decent player but he's not Trott
Root -- probably sadly our best player now
Bell -- he's had his good ashes in 2013, hopefully he'll do it again but given his record of not living up to his potential
Ali -- Will be bounced out, simply not a test cricketer unfortunately (at least, not a 'batsmen')
Broad -- really the best we've got?? the guy looks old, he's petulant still and bowls medium plod. Bopara was nearly as quick!!
Anderson -- only going to be good if it's swinging, otherwise.. medium plod again
we simply have no seamer that's going to get aus out without the wickets help.
Australia aren't invulnerable, as you've said.. warner, smith have weaknesses, clarke is injury prone etc. however, man for man they pretty much hammer england hands down and have more reserves!
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Get away from one day international fiascos for a minute and just analyse the two countries as test sides, especially bearing in mind the benefits either way of home conditions, and I think its a more even series than most people think:
Top Order: Davey Warner is dangerous, no doubt, but there is still the suspicion that he is only dangerous when things are going his way. Rogers is someone England are happy bowling at, and there is no clarity about who will bat three for Australia - if the ball swings, expect them to be 2-not many most times. For England, a lot rides on whether Cook can regain some form as he is likely to have an inexperienced partner, though Ballance at three provides quality and stability. A draw.
Middle Order: Australia would point to Smith and Clarke, but one is a permanent injury worry and the other, whilst massively improved, still has exploitable weaknesses. England would point to Root and Bell; more solid possibly, less stunning certainly. England certainly have better back up options, especially if Pietersen does "commit". England, narrowly.
All Round Options: Watson being replaced by Marsh will strengthen Australian bowling but weaken the batting, Maxwell may tour as the second spinner and adds options. Ali is a decent spin option but will get bounced out most games. Australia, narrowly.
Wicketkeeper: Buttler vs Haddin. Youth and constant improvement vs miraculous holding back of the years. This one starts a draw but will be won by whoevers team is on top.
Spin Bowling: Australia have the clubbie Lyon and...not much else. England have the not much less of a clubbie Ali backed by an array of other options (Rashid and Riley the most likely). Englands win here.
Pace Bowling: Anderson is a master of swing bowling in English conditions and will take early wickets, but the fact is that England don't have a whole lot else in the way of proven performers still at their peak - Broad looks old, Tremlett is old, Bresnan had the get in the Yorkshire side as an all rounder last season, Woakes may be crocked and not that good anyway, Finn has forgotten how to bowl fast...unless someone like Plunkett or Footitt can shake Australia... Who have Mitch (who oddly, I suspect may not be a big player in this series) plus the incredible Harris and either Spaceman or HAzlewood in a top class three. Australia's.
Back Up Bowling: Here is where it comes apart - England will be guessing with their seamers, whereas Australia have about eight possibles for the fifth slot - Pattinson, Siddle, Cummins, Abbott, Bird are the seriious ones but Hilfenhaus, Bollinger, Faulkner and a couple more would do a decent job. Australia, clearly.
So there you have it - in most areas a close series until we come to the quicks.
Excellent post!! Agree with pretty much everything you've said there.
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Cook -- woefully out of form and has been found out. He'll not recover vs Australia
Robson -- simply not good enough
Ballance -- decent player but he's not Trott
Root -- probably sadly our best player now
Bell -- he's had his good ashes in 2013, hopefully he'll do it again but given his record of not living up to his potential
Ali -- Will be bounced out, simply not a test cricketer unfortunately (at least, not a 'batsmen')
Broad -- really the best we've got?? the guy looks old, he's petulant still and bowls medium plod. Bopara was nearly as quick!!
Anderson -- only going to be good if it's swinging, otherwise.. medium plod again
we simply have no seamer that's going to get aus out without the wickets help.
Australia aren't invulnerable, as you've said.. warner, smith have weaknesses, clarke is injury prone etc. however, man for man they pretty much hammer england hands down and have more reserves!
Whilst your analysis is no less valid than mine, I do think you're giving some English players less credit than they deserve (Ballance, Anderson) and are missing the point with Australia's reserves that there is precisely no additional value in having four world class seamers when they're sat at home...
The different make up of the teams makes an 11 man head for head challenging to arrange, but here is a 13 man comparison based on likely, rather than my preferred, selections; for each the "winner" - or winners if a draw- is in bold:
Cook vs Warner
Trott vs Rogers
Ballance vs Burns
Bell vs Clarke
Root vs Smith
Ali vs Maxwell
Stokes vs Marsh
Buttler vs Haddin
Woakes vs Johnson
Broad vs Harris
Anderson vs Hazlewood
Plunkett vs Starc
Rashid vs Lyon
Only four outright wins each, even with my giving Clarke a narrow win over Bell, and I don't believe that many of my selections are particularly controversial...
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Whilst your analysis is no less valid than mine, I do think you're giving some English players less credit than they deserve (Ballance, Anderson) and are missing the point with Australia's reserves that there is precisely no additional value in having four world class seamers when they're sat at home...
The different make up of the teams makes an 11 man head for head challenging to arrange, but here is a 13 man comparison based on likely, rather than my preferred, selections; for each the "winner" - or winners if a draw- is in bold:
Cook vs Warner
Trott vs Rogers
Ballance vs Burns
Bell vs Clarke
Root vs Smith
Ali vs Maxwell
Stokes vs Marsh
Buttler vs Haddin
Woakes vs Johnson
Broad vs Harris
Anderson vs Hazlewood
Plunkett vs Starc
Rashid vs Lyon
Only four outright wins each, even with my giving Clarke a narrow win over Bell, and I don't believe that many of my selections are particularly controversial...
Cook vs Warner --- Aus
Trott vs Rogers --- draw
Ballance vs Burns --- draw
Bell vs Clarke --- Aus
Root vs Smith --- draw
Ali vs Maxwell --- Aus
Stokes vs Marsh --- Aus
Buttler vs Haddin --- draw
Woakes vs Johnson --- Aus
Broad vs Harris --- Aus
Anderson vs Hazlewood --- Eng (unless it's not swinging, in which case draw)
Plunkett vs Starc --- draw
Rashid vs Lyon ---aus (based purely on the fact Lyon has been there, Rashid hasn't and with Warner, clarke, smith etc.. they'll mince him.)
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Cook vs Warner --- Aus
Trott vs Rogers --- draw
Ballance vs Burns --- draw
Bell vs Clarke --- Aus
Root vs Smith --- draw
Ali vs Maxwell --- Aus
Stokes vs Marsh --- Aus
Buttler vs Haddin --- draw
Woakes vs Johnson --- Aus
Broad vs Harris --- Aus
Anderson vs Hazlewood --- Eng (unless it's not swinging, in which case draw)
Plunkett vs Starc --- draw
Rashid vs Lyon ---aus (based purely on the fact Lyon has been there, Rashid hasn't and with Warner, clarke, smith etc.. they'll mince him.)
I'd agree with that Except I think Ballance edges it over Burns and That Maxwell isn't a better test option than Ali.
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Ballance vs Burns --- draw
Ali vs Maxwell --- Aus
Stokes vs Marsh --- Aus
Rashid vs Lyon ---aus (based purely on the fact Lyon has been there, Rashid hasn't and with Warner, clarke, smith etc.. they'll mince him.)
Hmmm...you're argument for Lyon over Rashid surely stands equally for Ballance over Burns (as do the thousand or so Test runs last summer!). Ali vs Maxwell - neither are test class, can't be anything other than a draw and Stokes...well, he's done more than Mitch III so far...
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3 seam
1 spin
then you have
Part time Root, Trott if you need a few overs. IF you made me fit another bowler in there then Bell would be dropped for Stokes. Reasoning is that I'd rather blood lyth against WI (who are pretty crap), and we know what Bell can do so having him there isn't really achieving anything.
Have you actually seen Mark Footitt bowl?
It's interesting (and worrying) that almost exactly the same number of people who were picking Sam Robson last year, are picking Adam Lyth this.
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It's interesting (and worrying) that almost exactly the same number of people who were picking Sam Robson last year, are picking Adam Lyth this.
Someone scores a load of runs in the CC, the public want them in the team. That is how it's always worked, whats worrying about that?
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Someone scores a load of runs in the CC, the public want them in the team. That is how it's always worked, whats worrying about that?
I think people are very fickle. And there is definitely a sheep mentality.
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Have you actually seen Mark Footitt bowl?
It's interesting (and worrying) that almost exactly the same number of people who were picking Sam Robson last year, are picking Adam Lyth this.
that's true but you could see that Robson had a genuine flaw in his technique as an opening batter at test level, so unless he has worked on that it could be time for someone else - whether it is Lyth or not who knows.
i have a question regarding Footitt - is there a reason that he didn't tour with the Lions after taking all those CC wickets? surely if he didn't tour with the Lions then they can't pick him now?
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that's true but you could see that Robson had a genuine flaw in his technique as an opening batter at test level, so unless he has worked on that it could be time for someone else - whether it is Lyth or not who knows.
i have a question regarding Footitt - is there a reason that he didn't tour with the Lions after taking all those CC wickets? surely if he didn't tour with the Lions then they can't pick him now?
Mark Footitt is not close to England selection.
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Have you actually seen Mark Footitt bowl?
It's interesting (and worrying) that almost exactly the same number of people who were picking Sam Robson last year, are picking Adam Lyth this.
couldn't care less what you say or think. everyone according to you knows less than you.
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couldn't care less what you say or think. everyone according to you knows less than you.
You could have at least answered the question!
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couldn't care less what you say or think. everyone according to you knows less than you.
Oooh, er!
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb450/CPye061194/8982952C-4F24-4703-A95D-F8B229C29CE9_zpscweoazvx.jpg) (http://s1206.photobucket.com/user/CPye061194/media/8982952C-4F24-4703-A95D-F8B229C29CE9_zpscweoazvx.jpg.html)
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Have you actually seen Mark Footitt bowl?
If he hasn't, I have, and faced him in the nets too. He's a good bowler - perhaps a touch profligate but anyone getting it down at over 90mph left arm with a bit of movement is going to be a good bet - though I doubt he is first in the list at the moment because he has had some runs ins with the selectors (or rather one of them) in the past from what I am given to believe.
It's interesting (and worrying) that almost exactly the same number of people who were picking Sam Robson last year, are picking Adam Lyth this.
Really? Whats worrying? England need an opener then and now - this time last year Robson had at least a shot at being the best/most productive in county cricket over the preceding 12-18 months and now Lyth is in that boat. The two are different - Lyth is a bit more mature and knows his game better, and brings a bit more to the side overall because he is one of the three or four best slippers in the UK - but the overall thought pattern is the same.
I should say, I think personally that Robson will come again - he just needs time to work on that flaw with his alignment.
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Both Footitt and Lyth are fine cricketers. Lyth will possibly go to the WI. Wasn't really my point.
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The Guardian have James Tredwell predicted in the squad... :-[
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Gary Ballance getting over hyped...what a joke. He scored all his runs against two of the weakest attacks in Test cricket. He's average against proper pace(which Australia have bucket loads off).
As for Maxwell, his FC average is 44.82(FC runs - Test runs), therefore showing he's got plenty of potential to make it as a Test batsman. There where many saying Symonds couldn't make it as a Test player, but he did.
Ali has played pretty all his FC in Div 2 and still doesn't average 40...
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Ali is only a year older than Maxwell, since Maxwells debut season Ali has averaged 42.36 compared to Maxwells 40.39. Just thought I'd chuck it out there given our love for stats here.
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Ali has played pretty all his FC in Div 2 and still doesn't average 40...
Vaughan, Trescothick and Strauss all had modest FC records prior to selection but went on to have very good test careers. Although numbers do need to be considered when selecting players for international cricket is as much about temperament/mentality as anything else, and Ali has shown both in his short career so far. He does need to improve against short bowling though.
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Ali is only a year older than Maxwell, since Maxwells debut season Ali has averaged 42.36 compared to Maxwells 40.39. Just thought I'd chuck it out there given our love for stats here.
Div 2 runs are no way near the level of the Sheffield Shield
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Gary Ballance getting over hyped...what a joke. He scored all his runs against two of the weakest attacks in Test cricket. He's average against proper pace(which Australia have bucket loads off).
As for Maxwell, his FC average is 44.82(FC runs - Test runs), therefore showing he's got plenty of potential to make it as a Test batsman. There where many saying Symonds couldn't make it as a Test player, but he did.
Ali has played pretty all his FC in Div 2 and still doesn't average 40...
Using the same logic you have for Maxwell, and his 44.82 average, giving him plenty of potential to make a test batsmen, how much more potential does Ballance have? You've said he's over-rated, yet he averages over 10 more (55.51) than Maxwell does, Maxwell who according to you has plenty of potential. Not to mention Ballance already averages 60 in test matches, so what if its against what you feel are 2 of the weakest attacks in test cricket. Is that his fault? He only plays against who is put in front of him.
And dont forget he averages 60.75 more than you do in Test cricket.
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Using the same logic you have for Maxwell, and his 44.82 average, giving him plenty of potential to make a test batsmen, how much more potential does Ballance have? You've said he's over-rated, yet he averages over 10 more (55.51) than Maxwell does, Maxwell who according to you has plenty of potential. Not to mention Ballance already averages 60 in test matches, so what if its against what you feel are 2 of the weakest attacks in test cricket. Is that his fault? He only plays against who is put in front of him.
And dont forget he averages 60.75 more than you do in Test cricket.
Ballance averages something silly like 70 odd playing in Zimbabwe's FC competition, clearing boosting the average...
Lets see Ballance's average after he's exposed by NZ & AUS...
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Still leaving his average above Maxwells without them runs however :-[
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Still leaving his average above Maxwells without them runs however :-[
Helps when Ballance scores his runs against the many substandard county attacks...
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Cook vs Warner --- Aus
Trott vs Rogers --- draw - ridiculous, Trott is properly class
Ballance vs Burns --- draw - ridiculous, Burns' performances in first class and tests so far haven't been on the same planet as Ballance
Bell vs Clarke --- Aus - draw for me
Root vs Smith --- draw
Ali vs Maxwell --- Aus - are you kidding me?
Stokes vs Marsh --- Aus
Buttler vs Haddin --- draw
Woakes vs Johnson --- Aus
Broad vs Harris --- Aus
Anderson vs Hazlewood --- Eng (unless it's not swinging, in which case draw)
Plunkett vs Starc --- draw
Rashid vs Lyon ---aus (based purely on the fact Lyon has been there, Rashid hasn't and with Warner, clarke, smith etc.. they'll mince him.)
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Trotts been out. no idea what he'll be like now
Ballance could be good but he's scored his runs mainly against weak bowling
Bell is not as good as Clarke.. come on
Ali is not as good as Maxwell.. he can't play the short ball ffs sheffield shield runs mean far more than div 2 runs too. Ali has shown in this WC that he scores against weak bowling, not again good bowling.
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On a side note Trott is actually already out in the Caribbean with Warwickshire on their pre-season tour at the moment by the way.
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Probably better, he's still the same person but has had a break and time to deal with his mental problems. Do not underestimate how good a batsman he is.
Those would be the same weak bowlers Joe Burns didn't make any runs against?
In England, and particularly with none of Clarke's injury problems, I'd say yes he is.
The ashes is a test match series, not t20. Ali has been a moderate success in tests, Maxwell has been a shambles.
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Those would be the same weak bowlers Joe Burns didn't make any runs against?
Such as Mark Footitt?
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Gary Ballance getting over hyped...what a joke. He scored all his runs against two of the weakest attacks in Test cricket. He's average against proper pace(which Australia have bucket loads off).
As for Maxwell, his FC average is 44.82(FC runs - Test runs), therefore showing he's got plenty of potential to make it as a Test batsman. There where many saying Symonds couldn't make it as a Test player, but he did.
Hmmmm, so by your argument, Maxwell is a better test batsman than Ballance...even by your standards that one is a leap. At this stage all that can be said conclusively is that Maxwell has done nothing to show that he is up to test cricket whilst Ballance has scored runs against what was put in front of him, which is all anyone can really do (and you'd be in uproar if I pointed out your deification of Stephen SMith based on runs on better batting pitches against the same weak Indian attack!)
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Helps when Ballance scores his runs against the many substandard county attacks...
Whilst the D2 vs Shield argument expressed vis-a-vis Ali is valid, the difference between D1 and Shield is negligible, indeed at times D1 is and has been stronger
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Whilst the D2 vs Shield argument expressed vis-a-vis Ali is valid, the difference between D1 and Shield is negligible, indeed at times D1 is and has been stronger
Sure it has...9 teams where only realistically 2/3 sides can win the title...
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Hmmmm, so by your argument, Maxwell is a better test batsman than Ballance...even by your standards that one is a leap. At this stage all that can be said conclusively is that Maxwell has done nothing to show that he is up to test cricket whilst Ballance has scored runs against what was put in front of him, which is all anyone can really do (and you'd be in uproar if I pointed out your deification of Stephen SMith based on runs on better batting pitches against the same weak Indian attack!)
Steven Smith also scored a Test 100 against ENG home and away. He also scored a 100 in SA. And he scored runs in IND and UAE. Hardly a dud player.
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Sure it has...9 teams where only realistically 2/3 sides can win the title...
Hmmmm....in some ways that speaks of just about every sporting competition in the professional world. Though I would be interested to see how you canjustify a claim that only 2/3 sides can realistically win the title and futher how your perceived situation is any different to the Shield where, lets face it, South Australia are perennial losers and TAsmania have been hopeless.
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Steven Smith also scored a Test 100 against ENG home and away. He also scored a 100 in SA. And he scored runs in IND and UAE. Hardly a dud player.
didn't say he was- merely pointed out that his stellar form in 2014 (which, lets face it, was a long way ahead of anything he had previously produced) came against that same weak Indian attack as did Ballance's sky high average.
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Not sure if they've already been shared but a bit of Wednesday morning reading for you.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/11479009/Trott-returns-to-England-fold-for-West-Indies-tour.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/11479009/Trott-returns-to-England-fold-for-West-Indies-tour.html)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-3000343/Ben-Stokes-wins-England-recall-West-Indies-Test-tour-World-Cup-snub-squad-includes-six-Yorkshiremen.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-3000343/Ben-Stokes-wins-England-recall-West-Indies-Test-tour-World-Cup-snub-squad-includes-six-Yorkshiremen.html)
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ECB showing that once again it makes a colander look watertight...
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ECB showing that once again it makes a colander look watertight...
lol
All good guys though. All mates. All from the right families
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must be a big old squad then!
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Sure it has...9 teams where only realistically 2/3 sides can win the title...
The two or three being?
Lancashire won the championship in 2013 and were relegated last year!
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lol
All good guys though. All mates. All from the right families
All playing cricket?
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The two or three being?
Lancashire won the championship in 2013 and were relegated last year!
Its difficult isn't it - I mean, most seasons in most sports in most countries you can make an educated guess at who will finish at the top of the table. For 2015, you'd find a brave man who placed the house on anyone outside of Yorkshire, Nottinghamshire and Warwickshire, though Durham, Sussex and to a lesser extent Somerset have recruited/developed well.
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England Test squad:
Alastair Cook (Essex) captain
James Anderson (Lancashire)
Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire)
Gary Ballance (Yorkshire)
Ian Bell (Warwickshire)
Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire)
Jos Buttler (Lancashire)
Chris Jordan (Sussex)
Adam Lyth (Yorkshire)
Liam Plunkett (Yorkshire)
Joe Root (Yorkshire)
Adil Rashid (Yorkshire)
Ben Stokes (Durham)
James Tredwell (Kent)
Jonathan Trott (Warwickshire)
Mark Wood (Durham)
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So Trott back in
Robson out
Rashid and Lyth in!
Looks a good squad to me!
1. Cook
2. Lyth
3. Trott
4. Root
5. Bell
6. Balance
7. Stokes
8. Buttler
9. Rashid
10. Broad/Plunkett
11. Anderson
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My test XI
1- Cook
2- Lyth
3- Ballance
4- Bell
5- Root
6- Stokes
7- Butler
8- Broad
9- Rashid
10- Plunkett
11- Anderson
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My test XI
1- Cook
2- Lyth
3- Ballance
4- Bell
5- Root
6- Ali
7- Butler
8- Broad
9- Rashid
10- Plunkett
11- Anderson
Ali not being in t'squad will make that rather tricky...
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Quite a reasonable squad to be fair. Suspect it'll be Stokes at six and:
Cook
Lyth
Ballance
Bell
Root
Stokes
Buttler
Rashid
Plunkett
Broad
Anderson
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Ali not being in t'squad will make that rather tricky...
Haha I see your point :D
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slightly surprised Taylor and Finn not in it, and Bopara? shock
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Taylor is nowhere in terms of test selection and Finn has become a medium pacer!
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Should be this:
Cook
Trott
Ballance
Bell
Root
Buttler
Stokes
Jordan
Broad
Tredwell/Rashid
Anderson
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On a side note, the Yorkshire squad have certainly taken a battering for the early part of the season loosing 6 players!
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Should be this:
Cook
Trott
Ballance
Bell
Root
Buttler
Stokes
Jordan
Broad
Tredwell/Rashid
Anderson
No
should be
Lyth
Compton
Trott
Root
KP
Bell
Davies
Stokes
Ali
Wood
Plunkett
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Think this formly shuts the door on Monty, even with Ali injured they still pick Tredwell.
Excellent One Day Bowler. Test match he ain't......
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On a side note, the Yorkshire squad have certainly taken a battering for the early part of the season loosing 6 players!
Aye that could be an issue!
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3 new players in - taken from the bbc website:-
Adil Rashid, 27, played five one-day and five Twenty20 internationals for England in 2009, featuring in the World Twenty20. He was in the Test squad for the tour of West Indies that year, but did not earn a cap. He was recalled to the Lions squad after starring in Yorkshire's 2014 county championship success.
Adam Lyth, 27, was also instrumental in Yorkshire's title-winning side. The Whitby-born left-hander, who had football trials with Manchester City as a teenager, scored six hundreds and six fifties at an average of almost 70 to earn a place on the Lions tour.
Mark Wood, 25, made his first-class debut for Durham in April 2011 after playing minor counties cricket for Northumberland between 2008 and 2010. He impressed during their 2013 and 2014 campaigns but only managed four wickets at 53.25 for England Lions in South Africa.
Full England squad: Alastair Cook (capt, Essex), Adam Lyth (Yorkshire), Jonathan Trott (Warwickshire), Gary Ballance, Joe Root (both Yorkshire), Ian Bell (Warwickshire), Ben Stokes (Durham), Jos Buttler (wk, Lancashire), Jonathan Bairstow (wk), Adil Rashid, Liam Plunkett (all Yorkshire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), James Anderson (Lancashire), Chris Jordan (Sussex), Mark Wood (Durham), James Tredwell (Kent)
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team will be
Cook
Trott
Ballance
Bell
Root
Stokes
Rashid
Butler
Jorden
Broad
Anderson
I have no idea why the second best kent four day spinner is in the squad. absolutely nuts really.
My fear with this team is it lacks firepower/dynamism to change the course of a game - butler will be batting too low and I worry that when he gets in it will either be bust as we have lost a load of wickets or he will run out of partners. Perhaps he should bat at 6 ahead of stokes and Rashid.
The top 5 really lacks genuine firepower to change the course of a match in a session - which has been a complaint of mine for ages.
All those batters until you get to stokes will allow the bowlers to bowl at them, rather than coming at the bowlers - which, as any bowler knows, means you are already putting yourself under pressure and allowing the bowling side to get on top early. Ask yourself if SA/Aus or India would have such a slow, plod on top order...
It may be better if Lyth opened instead of Cook - but that makes the top order very very inexperienced - losing Trotts 50ish caps
grrrr.
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team will be
Cook
Trott
Ballance
Bell
Root
Stokes
Rashid
Butler
Jorden
Broad
Anderson
I have no idea why the second best kent four day spinner is in the squad. absolutely nuts really.
My fear with this team is it lacks firepower/dynamism to change the course of a game - butler will be batting too low and I worry that when he gets in it will either be bust as we have lost a load of wickets or he will run out of partners. Perhaps he should bat at 6 ahead of stokes and Rashid.
The top 5 really lacks genuine firepower to change the course of a match in a session - which has been a complaint of mine for ages.
All those batters until you get to stokes will allow the bowlers to bowl at them, rather than coming at the bowlers - which, as any bowler knows, means you are already putting yourself under pressure and allowing the bowling side to get on top early. Ask yourself if SA/Aus or India would have such a slow, plod on top order...
grrrr.
need KP :)
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No
should be
Lyth
Compton
Trott
Root
KP
Bell
Davies
Stokes
Ali
Wood
Plunkett
is davies even keeping for Surry these days?
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Such as Mark Footitt?
Eh? The Indian test side I mean!
Seems to be a lot of chat about Footit on here atm, haven't seen him bowl outside of the youtube video someone posted though so no idea really.
Squad looks good to me, although Tredwell is a confusing pick. Hopefully Stokes/Rashid play, guessing the real selection choices will be Plunkett/Wood for third seamer and Lyth vs Trott.
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team will be
Cook
Trott
Ballance
Bell
Root
Stokes
Rashid
Butler
Jorden
Broad
Anderson
I have no idea why the second best kent four day spinner is in the squad. absolutely nuts really.
My fear with this team is it lacks firepower/dynamism to change the course of a game - butler will be batting too low and I worry that when he gets in it will either be bust as we have lost a load of wickets or he will run out of partners. Perhaps he should bat at 6 ahead of stokes and Rashid.
The top 5 really lacks genuine firepower to change the course of a match in a session - which has been a complaint of mine for ages.
All those batters until you get to stokes will allow the bowlers to bowl at them, rather than coming at the bowlers - which, as any bowler knows, means you are already putting yourself under pressure and allowing the bowling side to get on top early. Ask yourself if SA/Aus or India would have such a slow, plod on top order...
It may be better if Lyth opened instead of Cook - but that makes the top order very very inexperienced - losing Trotts 50ish caps
grrrr.
You have to play 2 spinners in the Windies (I think we have enough evidence for this by now - pay attention Buzz!) - Tredwell for Jordan. Yes Root can bowl, but remember what happened to Samit last time he turned up in a test match? Root is only ever a third spinner.
To be honest, if we are playing on batting decks then they should of pick Panesar and not Jordon for the squad. Tredders is probably in due to the number of left handers in the windies line up. Gayle, Smith, Bravo, Chanders.
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Personally I don't think Ballance could tie a test batsmans shoe lace
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GAyle won't be playing - he's off to the IPL.
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Personally I don't think Ballance could tie a test batsmans shoe lace
Aye, he's no Rob Quiney. :D
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Personally I don't think Ballance could tie a test batsmans shoe lace
Given the somewhat average pace attacks and a season at home, the jury is still out on his test average. The Windies aren't great but it will be a challenge away from home. If he get's through the summer still averaging 60 then we'll know alot more about him.
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Given the somewhat average pace attacks and a season at home, the jury is still out on his test average. The Windies aren't great but it will be a challenge away from home. If he get's through the summer still averaging 60 then we'll know alot more about him.
A more valid way of looking at it. I maintain that I see him as a test player, though not batting as high as three - all his first class runs came at five and six and his game is best suited to that position.
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Aye, he's no Rob Quiney. :D
Nor a Neil Fairbrother :D
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Tredwell....?
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Tredwell....?
Tredwell. James Tredwell.
License to Twirl.
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For me it's
Cook
Lyth
Trott
Bell
Root
Ballance/Stokes
Butler
Rashid
Broad
Tredwell
Anderson
I think Trott needs to bat where he has scored all his runs, to be able to come back into test cricket feeling comfortable knowing where he is at etc... Plus we can't forget that if he is going to open then he is going to have to walk out 1st up against AUS in the summer, after what happened in the Winter.
We need to play 2 spinners - you only need to look at the results currently in the WI to see that - unfortunately Tredwell has been picked rather than Riley or even Monty so have to go with him.
The only question mark i have is whether we need 5 bowlers or 6 batters - so therefore is a question whether Ballance or Stokes plays - with the way the pitches will be i am probably edging towards Stokes as i have the feeling they will be roads and in the heat will need the bowling to take 20 wickets etc...
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Personally I'd have this as a test set up - still missing a key player IMO though (a KP for short ;))
Cook
Lyth
Bell
Root
Trott
Buttler
Stokes
Rashid
Broad
Tredwell
Anderson
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Broad has got to produce something special soon to justify my faith in him - I don't think he is fully fit.
I'd deffo play two spinners out there, but I don't get the great 'rush Trott back' thing. He either slots in as an opener, or waits his turn. I'd like to see Balance play a few more games before deciding - I don't think he's done much wrong in tests.
My side would be:
Cook
Lyth
Balance
Bell
Root
Stokes
Buttler
Rashid
Plunkoid
Tredwell
Anderson
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By the way - my imaginary A team squad to take place at the same time would be:
Robson
Adams
Lees
Taylor
Vince
Bopara
Davies
Coles
Riley
Brooks
Topley
Billings
Kerrigan
Finn
Hales
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I guess Ali's injury must be a long term one to be excluded from the tour.
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So KP has just signed for Surrey for the county season...
Keeping the Ashes dream alive??
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I guess Ali's injury must be a long term one to be excluded from the tour.
This is from the below article on Sky Sports website about the touring party -
"Chris Woakes and Moeen Ali miss out through injury, but both are expected to be fit for the home series against New Zealand in May and Ali could yet be added to the touring party if his side strain heals in time."
http://www1.skysports.com/cricket/news/12040/9764953/jonathan-trott-back-in-england-squad-for-tour-of-the-west-indies (http://www1.skysports.com/cricket/news/12040/9764953/jonathan-trott-back-in-england-squad-for-tour-of-the-west-indies)
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So KP has just signed for Surrey for the county season...
Keeping the Ashes dream alive??
i see that on Twitter - however on the BBC website James Whitaker is saying he really doesn't care!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/31905804 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/31905804)
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YEP,THE SELECTORS DONT GIVE TWO HOOTS....and his is where this whole issue is going to blow up again
and also......did you see AC's comments on BBC about his sacking? what ever anyone thinks about Cook the guys has a set of kahunas.
ive seen English cricket last year described as an annus horribilis'
sit tight it's only just started
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i see that on Twitter - however on the BBC website James Whitaker is saying he really doesn't care!
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/31905804[/url] ([url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/31905804[/url])
That's clearly a sacking offence if he means it. His job is surely to recruit the best players to play for England. If KP smacks 1000 runs in May, then he will be big trouble if he doesn't pick him. Whether KP is 34 or not, plenty of guys have had test careers up to 40 or so if he's good enough he should play. I don't remember England Team being a nursery for emerging talent, whatever Whitaker thinks. If you get picked to play for England, then it really shouldn't be a case of "developing" into the job.
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Just read both the Whitaker and Cook articles
1. Sack Whitaker (and Moores whilst you're at it)
2. Get KP back in
3. Smash the Convicts around the park
Job done
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Graves remit isn't selecting the England team - that's what they have selectors for. Clearly he has an agenda for reigniting the KP debate, though by any stretch it was galactically poor timing. He can of course appoint different selectors/coach/MD (if that job survives the streamlining) who may want to get KP back in, but until he does KP ain't getting anywhere near the England team...
I'm not sure he'd walk in at the moment anyway. He didn't make a difference in the 5-0 Ashes and hasn't played anything more than 1 day cricket in 14 months since. By his own admission there's no guarantee his knee will stand up to test cricket either. It would take a brave man to drop a guy averaging 60, Bell, admittedly, needs to produce before the Ashes and the rumour was that KP was a negative influence on Root during the 5-0. England seem to like the idea of an all rounder instead of 6 batsmen so for now there's no place available.
If he's the KP of 2012 or before, I'd pick him for the NZ series. If anyone can guarantee he is. If not, he'll do very well to get in before mid-Ashes and it will have to be replacing someone who is under-performing. Even then, would you pick him rather than, say, Lyth to open and Trott to move down (assuming Bell, Ballance or Root are having shockers)?
Cook also came out today to say that he doesn't think KP will ever get back in (sub text, not on his watch) and I just don't see him getting back, being realistic. His age, book, knee, burnt bridges and liklehood that he's past his best just doesn't shout recall to me...
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Eh? The Indian test side I mean!
Sorry. Crossed wires!
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i see that on Twitter - however on the BBC website James Whitaker is saying he really doesn't care!
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/31905804[/url] ([url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/31905804[/url])
Top man!
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Graves remit isn't selecting the England team - that's what they have selectors for. Clearly he has an agenda for reigniting the KP debate, though by any stretch it was galactically poor timing. He can of course appoint different selectors/coach/MD (if that job survives the streamlining) who may want to get KP back in, but until he does KP ain't getting anywhere near the England team...
I'm not sure he'd walk in at the moment anyway. He didn't make a difference in the 5-0 Ashes and hasn't played anything more than 1 day cricket in 14 months since. By his own admission there's no guarantee his knee will stand up to test cricket either. It would take a brave man to drop a guy averaging 60, Bell, admittedly, needs to produce before the Ashes and the rumour was that KP was a negative influence on Root during the 5-0. England seem to like the idea of an all rounder instead of 6 batsmen so for now there's no place available.
If he's the KP of 2012 or before, I'd pick him for the NZ series. If anyone can guarantee he is. If not, he'll do very well to get in before mid-Ashes and it will have to be replacing someone who is under-performing. Even then, would you pick him rather than, say, Lyth to open and Trott to move down (assuming Bell, Ballance or Root are having shockers)?
Cook also came out today to say that he doesn't think KP will ever get back in (sub text, not on his watch) and I just don't see him getting back, being realistic. His age, book, knee, burnt bridges and liklehood that he's past his best just doesn't shout recall to me...
didn't make a difference in 2013 ashes?? umm, wasn't he the best batsmen? by your reckoning why is Cook, Bell, Root there then?? they did worse?? plus, he did all that whilst injured with a knee injury and as we know now, being outcast by Downton and co!
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that's how i'm seeing it Jamie, what Graves has said is neither here nor there and yes it's shocking timing-he could of said absolutely nothing
we are thou(England) heading for another crisis with this issue, last year was bad enough but the bloodletting may have only just started,
Cook, always perceived as a 'company man' made it clear he was not happy with being sacked so close to the world cup-and he;s absoulutley right- sack him fine, 3 games before a world cup? seriously that's appalling management.
I think the rot is deep rooted in English cricket...I love England and will support thru thick and thin....but the issues are with the structure of the ECB.
I would sack Moores and sack downton and whittaker and start again with a fresh page. :)
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I think Graves just wants the best team on the pitch, like all fans. His KP comments are maybe a warning shot across the bows of Moores/Whittaker that their jobs aren't safe and they need to think about results. If they have, by common consensus, the best team on the park then fair enough if they lose. If they lose and omit certain players who warrant selection then they can't be expected to stay in a job.
With this in mind it's clear Whittaker is pushing his luck.
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didn't make a difference in 2013 ashes?? umm, wasn't he the best batsmen? by your reckoning why is Cook, Bell, Root there then?? they did worse?? plus, he did all that whilst injured with a knee injury and as we know now, being outcast by Downton and co!
To coin a football phrase, what's the score in top corner? Still 5-0. Carberry was second highest scorer and they dropped him asap. My point is there are other factors for him being sacked beyond making the ECB scapegoats. Yes, they've handled it appallingly, and there needs to be change in personnel, vision and attitude from top down.
Sorry to continue with the football analogies. Why didn't England pick Gazza for France 98? Why didn't Beckham get selected for London 2012? We all wanted to see them - and KP - play. The common denominator is age. And performances (also mismanagement of talents, but that falls in the NGB structural changes and the way we ID talent in this country). As soon as KP wasn't impacting on the results of games, they had an excuse to let him go. It may well be that all were not selected for rocking the boat, being a sideshow, being bigger than the building, but there are also very valid reasons for not selecting them, in the NGBs minds, that they can use to justify their decisions. KP's knee isn't going to get any better as he gets older, he can't retrace what he said in his book.
I'm not against selecting him. But I'd want to be sure he was back to his best. That's going to take time, which he doesn't have and in that time younger players are getting more experience and probably embedding themselves in the middle order for years to come. How does he get back in if the middle order are flying up to and through the summer?
I'm only being a realist. I'd love to see an in form KP batting at 4, with Bell and Root at 5 and 6 and play four bowlers - that format got us to number 1 in the world. I just don't see it happening. Don't confuse my realism with my ideal...
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The only thing with the kp issue is the certainty of dripping him forever and saying he wont play again. Couldn't they have just dropped him and said they wanted to move in another direction? I know they probably wanted to stop the conversation but still.
Now they've needlessly bbacked themselves into a corner. What if kp has 1000 runs by end of May? What if he averages 100?
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Talking of Ashes 2013 (KP/tredwell tenuous link) what happened to Borthwick? Flown over to Sydney for the 5th test, never to be seen again. I would have thought he would be a better back up to Rashid in the Windies rather than Tredwell, who won't get picked with Root able to roll his arm over.
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You'd think Riley would get the first shot over Tredwell...?!
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That's the issue i have that they have really put a lot of pressure on themselves - for KP to sign for Surrey he would have had to cancel his IPL contract which he wouldn't have done without some sort of word from the ECB (KP said as much in all the interviews he did) - however you have Whitaker saying he isn't in their plans.
Below are the fixtures Surrey have before the 1st test vs NZ - looking at who they are playing i can quite easily see him scoring a load of runs - the Glamorgan and Leicester attacks are hardly worrying and he has 2 CC games at the Oval.
CC DIV 2 -
Sunday 19th April 2015 v Glamorgan - Cardiff
Sunday 26th April 2015 v Essex - The Oval
Sunday 10th May 2015 v Leicestershire - The Oval
T20 BLAST -
Friday 15th May 2015 v Glamorgan - The Oval
Saturday 16th May 2015 v Essex - Chelmsford
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You'd think Riley would get the first shot over Tredwell...?!
You'd have thought so, seeing as Tredwell had to go on Loan to get some 4 day games last season.
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Talking of Ashes 2013 (KP/tredwell tenuous link) what happened to Borthwick? Flown over to Sydney for the 5th test, never to be seen again. I would have thought he would be a better back up to Rashid in the Windies rather than Tredwell, who won't get picked with Root able to roll his arm over.
Still think Kerrigan deserves another go. After Panesar he is the best spinner in the longer formats in my opinion.
I like Borthwick. I have watched him many times and is very impressive. He's a decent batsman but unfortunately his bowling has not improved.
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Borthwick needs to leave durham really, unless he's planning to get in as a specialist batsman.
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The only thing with the kp issue is the certainty of dripping him forever and saying he wont play again. Couldn't they have just dropped him and said they wanted to move in another direction? I know they probably wanted to stop the conversation but still.
Now they've needlessly bbacked themselves into a corner. What if kp has 1000 runs by end of May? What if he averages 100?
Couldn't agree more. It's been a PR disaster from start to finish. I'm guessing they wanted to end any recurring speculation but it's blown up in their faces. What they should have done is sat down with him and explained why they didn't want to pick him anymore. He may not have agreed, he may not have kept quiet about how he felt, but at least you're being up front and honest.
If he has 1000 runs at 100 by the end of May, I'd pick him. The selectors won't because they've given themselves no option...
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There's a spot at 4 in my club side with KP's name all over it!
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To coin a football phrase, what's the score in top corner? Still 5-0. Carberry was second highest scorer and they dropped him asap. My point is there are other factors for him being sacked beyond making the ECB scapegoats. Yes, they've handled it appallingly, and there needs to be change in personnel, vision and attitude from top down.
Sorry to continue with the football analogies. Why didn't England pick Gazza for France 98? Why didn't Beckham get selected for London 2012? We all wanted to see them - and KP - play. The common denominator is age. And performances (also mismanagement of talents, but that falls in the NGB structural changes and the way we ID talent in this country). As soon as KP wasn't impacting on the results of games, they had an excuse to let him go. It may well be that all were not selected for rocking the boat, being a sideshow, being bigger than the building, but there are also very valid reasons for not selecting them, in the NGBs minds, that they can use to justify their decisions. KP's knee isn't going to get any better as he gets older, he can't retrace what he said in his book.
I'm not against selecting him. But I'd want to be sure he was back to his best. That's going to take time, which he doesn't have and in that time younger players are getting more experience and probably embedding themselves in the middle order for years to come. How does he get back in if the middle order are flying up to and through the summer?
I'm only being a realist. I'd love to see an in form KP batting at 4, with Bell and Root at 5 and 6 and play four bowlers - that format got us to number 1 in the world. I just don't see it happening. Don't confuse my realism with my ideal...
again
why was cook, root, bell, broad, anderson all kept on then? they were impacting the team even less!
it's been said now that KP wasnt' disrupting players, was helping the youngster etc. Seems to me that he is streets ahead of Bell, Ballance, Cook and co if he scores runs in apr/may in the LVCC. his past is better and if he's back fit and scoring runs then he's a better bet. I want the best xi playing each game, not a nursery.. leave them to learn in the LVCC, not in an eng shirt
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That's the issue i have that they have really put a lot of pressure on themselves - for KP to sign for Surrey he would have had to cancel his IPL contract which he wouldn't have done without some sort of word from the ECB (KP said as much in all the interviews he did) - however you have Whitaker saying he isn't in their plans.
Below are the fixtures Surrey have before the 1st test vs NZ - looking at who they are playing i can quite easily see him scoring a load of runs - the Glamorgan and Leicester attacks are hardly worrying and he has 2 CC games at the Oval.
CC DIV 2 -
Sunday 19th April 2015 v Glamorgan - Cardiff
Sunday 26th April 2015 v Essex - The Oval
Sunday 10th May 2015 v Leicestershire - The Oval
T20 BLAST -
Friday 15th May 2015 v Glamorgan - The Oval
Saturday 16th May 2015 v Essex - Chelmsford
He could have 1000 runs by Mid May looking at the oppo and decks! The only thing that will get him out is boredom!
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Borthwick needs to leave durham really, unless he's planning to get in as a specialist batsman.
He broke his spinning finger at the start of last season (maybe even season before) which basically put a stop to his bowling, and focusing on batting. In the long form he bats at 3 for Durham, so like Stokes, was used well out of role when he featured for England! That explains the lack of bowling progress and supports that he is focusing just on his batting...... BUT, he has had specialist coaching on the bowling front and with Breese leaving Durham, he might well get more bowling time in the 2015 season!
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What Whitaker said was that he has not been in their talks.
But I read that as only because KP has not played anything.
If KP comes back, and performs, he could review whether to pick him.
(Then choose not to).
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I want the best xi playing each game, not a nursery.. leave them to learn in the LVCC, not in an eng shirt
That's funny, because earlier you said England should drop Ian Bell in order to 'blood' Adam Lyth at no.6.
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Sorry to continue with the football analogies. Why didn't England pick Gazza for France 98? Why didn't Beckham get selected for London 2012? We all wanted to see them - and KP - play. The common denominator is age. And performances (also mismanagement of talents, but that falls in the NGB structural changes and the way we ID talent in this country). As soon as KP wasn't impacting on the results of games, they had an excuse to let him go. It may well be that all were not selected for rocking the boat, being a sideshow, being bigger than the building, but there are also very valid reasons for not selecting them, in the NGBs minds, that they can use to justify their decisions. KP's knee isn't going to get any better as he gets older, he can't retrace what he said in his book.
Obviously with a 5-0 loss it'd be churlish to suggest that KP affected the results - but - and this is a huge but - did you not notice that he was always the wicket the Aussies wanted. That wasn't a McGrath style behead the oppo style wicket a la Cook, it was a genuine fear that Pietersen could utterly humiliate them in a session.
He could be over the hill, but we're talking about 11 months on from the best innings by an English player in India ever, 20 on from him treating Dale Steyn like a club bowler. I'd say that, if that version of Pietersen had deteriorated by 20% he'd still be a light year ahead of guys like Taylor, Vince, Robson and, much as I like the lad, Balance...
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Talking of Ashes 2013 (KP/tredwell tenuous link) what happened to Borthwick? Flown over to Sydney for the 5th test, never to be seen again. I would have thought he would be a better back up to Rashid in the Windies rather than Tredwell, who won't get picked with Root able to roll his arm over.
Borthwick got picked because he happened to be in Aus playing grade at the time, no way would he have been chosen if they were flying in an extra player!
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Borthwick got picked because he happened to be in Aus playing grade at the time, no way would he have been chosen if they were flying in an extra player!
If that's right it's very worrying, surely England should be picking the best players as determined by the selectors, not some guy who happens to be playing locally. If anyones going to the windies, you should take your kit, you might get a game, probably ahead of Tredwell ;)
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I'm going to stick up for Tredwell here. He's done some good work for England in the ODI setup and he deserves a chance. His 4 day form might not be great but he's got some good players out in ODI cricket so he can't be that bad.
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I'm going to stick up for Tredwell here. He's done some good work for England in the ODI setup and he deserves a chance. His 4 day form might not be great but he's got some good players out in ODI cricket so he can't be that bad.
that is rubbish, he isn't even in Kent's 4 day team. He should be no where near the Eng test side.
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Could Whitakers days be numbered! http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/31963305 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/31963305)
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that is rubbish, he isn't even in Kent's 4 day team. He should be no where near the Eng test side.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/21646.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/21646.html)
There must be so many people with his international experience in county cricket who can do a job, I could only name poor old Monty. He might not be exciting but I don't think he will let us down. Certainly not a Kerrigan and we don't want a repeat of that. Rashid is enough of a risk as it is.
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[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/21646.html[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/21646.html[/url])
There must be so many people with his international experience in county cricket who can do a job, I could only name poor old Monty. He might not be exciting but I don't think he will let us down. Certainly not a Kerrigan and we don't want a repeat of that. Rashid is enough of a risk as it is.
He won't get selected to play in the tests anyway, England just take him along for the ride. Over the last 5 months he's warmed seats in Sri lanka, New Zealand, Australia and now Windies. I'm not sure whether he's a cricketer or a tour guide.
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[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/21646.html[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/21646.html[/url])
There must be so many people with his international experience in county cricket who can do a job, I could only name poor old Monty. He might not be exciting but I don't think he will let us down. Certainly not a Kerrigan and we don't want a repeat of that. Rashid is enough of a risk as it is.
Panesar is still the best spinner in England.
We have Kerrigan, Briggs, Riley and Ravi Patel coming through plus Borthwick.
Tredwell and Rashid are safe options in my opinion. Tredwell will do a job at one end and Rashid has 375 first class wickets and is no mug !
Im excited to see Rashid bowl. Has all the options. He has really improved his game recently with bat and bowl and deserves another go whilst Ali is out injured.
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He won't get selected to play in the tests anyway, England just take him along for the ride. Over the last 5 months he's warmed seats in Sri lanka, New Zealand, Australia and now Windies. I'm not sure whether he's a cricketer or a tour guide.
I think Tredwell will play plus Rashid. The highest wicket takers in domestic cricket in West Indies this year are all spinners.
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and still no one has been sacked. ECB is a farce. Whittaker is just proving what a prat he is and what a shambles the ECB are
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Colin Graves is turning into a bit of a gob-poo. Calling the windies mediocre before we've even olayed them? I think he's trying to tale his "blunt speaking yorkshireman" act too far.
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Colin Graves is turning into a bit of a gob-poo. Calling the windies mediocre before we've even olayed them? I think he's trying to tale his "blunt speaking yorkshireman" act too far.
He's right they are, as are we.
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absolutely Stuey, second that.
Time we actually were honest where we are in the world game.We have no reason to take anyone for granted.
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This is exactly what he did as Yorkshire CEO though. No change in mentality from him.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/counties/8759852/Yorkshire-chairman-Colin-Graves-blames-disgraceful-player-performances-for-countys-relegation.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/counties/8759852/Yorkshire-chairman-Colin-Graves-blames-disgraceful-player-performances-for-countys-relegation.html)
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To become world class, for me we need:
3 world class batsman in the top 6, with no KP we potentially have one in Cook, at a push Bell.
A world class spinner
At least 1 out and out quick, backed up buy 2 quality seamers.
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I hope he doesn't announce that he expects to make the West Indies 'grovel' - we all know what happened last time!
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To become world class, for me we need:
3 world class batsman in the top 6, with no KP we potentially have one in Cook, at a push Bell.
A world class spinner
At least 1 out and out quick, backed up buy 2 quality seamers.
Whatever you've been smoking can I have some?
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Cook's 766 runs at 128 in 2011 Ashes says he has the capacity to be world class.
Bell's 562 at 63 in 2013 Ashes shows he has the capacity to reach world class levels.
The real difference between England 2010-2013 and now is Graeme Swann for me. A truly world class attacking spinner who shook up lefties everywhere and could also contain the runs.
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The real difference between England 2010-2013 and now is Graeme Swann for me. A truly world class attacking spinner who shook up lefties everywhere and could also contain the runs.
Hmmm....a better captain, stronger slip cordon, a game changing batsman (KP) and a reliable hard yards bowler (the pre-injury Bresnan) would all be really useful right now...
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Colin Graves is turning into a bit of a gob-poo. Calling the windies mediocre before we've even olayed them? I think he's trying to tale his "blunt speaking yorkshireman" act too far.
WI are crap!! If England can't beat them AND beat them very very well then they need to take a good hard look at themselves
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To become world class, for me we need:
3 world class batsman in the top 6, with no KP we potentially have one in Cook, at a push Bell.
A world class spinner
At least 1 out and out quick, backed up buy 2 quality seamers.
Cook was world class for ONE series
Bell was world class for.. umm, one series at a push
The differences in the side now to back when they were good are many
fielding
catching
bowling
batting
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Cook was world class for ONE series
Bell was world class for.. umm, one series at a push
The differences in the side now to back when they were good are many
fielding
catching
bowling
batting
if his performance in that series is a benchmark for being world Class then there aren't more than a handful work world class players around.
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if his performance in that series is a benchmark for being world Class then there aren't more than a handful work world class players around.
there shouldnt be many.. thats kind of the point. if you start saying loads are world class then it devalues it
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Of course Cook is potentially world class, at 30 yrs he has scored getting on for 9000 test runs @ 46-47 after a very bad run over the last year. If you compare him with a world class player such as Ponting, he scored 13,000 test runs @ 51. With Cook having at least another 6 years to play and more than likely his best years a head of him (based on when the best batsman peak) so say 60-70 tests, that will put him somewhere around Ponting.
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Of course Cook is potentially world class, at 30 yrs he has scored getting on for 9000 test runs @ 46-47 after a very bad run over the last year. If you compare him with a world class player such as Ponting, he scored 13,000 test runs @ 51. With Cook having at least another 6 years to play and more than likely his best years a head of him (based on when the best batsman peak) so say 60-70 tests, that will put him somewhere around Ponting.
I'd like to see who genuinely thinks Cook is anywhere close in reality to Ponting
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Ponting 2 years retired is still a better bat than cook.
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Generally a batsmens peak is considered between 28-32. But in Cook's case it seems like he peaked early and since bowlers have figured him out in the last 2 years, he's had no answer how to fix his decline.
Cook isn't going to match Ponting.
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Needs to give up the captaincy IMO, or he'll soon be a busted flush. If he does, he could be great again.
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Generally a batsmens peak is considered between 28-32. But in Cook's case it seems like he peaked early and since bowlers have figured him out in the last 2 years, he's had no answer how to fix his decline.
Cook isn't going to match Ponting.
To be fair, he has still time to fix it though. He is struggling but he may find it again.
Whether he will match Ponting if he does is sort himself out is questionable. If he doesn't fix it, he might not be gone after the Ashes.
I think captaincy has played a part too. If this was taken off him, or better, he stepped down, I think this may give him more freedom.
In my opinion, the jury is still out on whether he will get that form back, but time is definitely running out for him.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I'd like to see who genuinely thinks Cook is anywhere close in reality to Ponting
What people think is largely irrelevant, if he ends up scoring 10-12,000 test runs at around 50 the figures speak for themselves.
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For the umpteenth time, 'world class' doesn't refer to the top 10 players in the game. Logically speaking, 'world class' would be a fair description of any established international player - they are proven good enough to play at international (i.e. world) level. The yardstick in test cricket for world class has always been an average of 40 with the bat, surely any cricket fan knows this?
Potential good news that Ottis Gibson is England's new bowling coach, did a good job last time even if it's not a huge step forward.
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For the umpteenth time, 'world class' doesn't refer to the top 10 players in the game. Logically speaking, 'world class' would be a fair description of any established international player - they are proven good enough to play at international (i.e. world) level. The yardstick in test cricket for world class has always been an average of 40 with the bat, surely any cricket fan knows this?
Potential good news that Ottis Gibson is England's new bowling coach, did a good job last time even if it's not a huge step forward.
surely international players are 'international class' ?? World class is for the cream at the top only. People go through spells of form when they play world class innings/bowling spells etc but then drop away to be back to 'normal'. Only a few are able to genuinely have a career where their normal is actually world class
it's a very over used term people apply to their hero's/team though so tbh, it's lost it's rarity
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What people think is largely irrelevant, if he ends up scoring 10-12,000 test runs at around 50 the figures speak for themselves.
stats aren't everything
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40 is be no means the signs of a world class batsman. 40 means you've built a successful career. 45-49 means you're borderline world class. 50+ means you are world class eg the class apart.
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40 is be no means the signs of a world class batsman. 40 means you've built a successful career. 45-49 means you're borderline world class. 50+ means you are world class eg the class apart.
What if you play most of your tests on featherbeds in WI or SL?
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Perhaps one way to look at whether someone is world class is, would they get into a 'all-star' type team. These would be the players who are on absolute top form at that current time, who have shown the ability to score runs/take wickets etc at critical times.
You could build a squad of 15 ish players. Maybe even go for 22, that way they could 'play' each other. But it would limit the over use of world class (which you see a whole lot more in Football etc)
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What if you play most of your tests on featherbeds in WI or SL?
that's one of the issues with stats, they can be inflated by 'easy' tours. India in Eng for example was a time Eng could cash in runs and wickets against a helpless India. Or, as you say... a tour of WI/Bnagladesh. Wouldn't take many tours of india where 700-4 plays 678-6 to inflate an avg
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World class, in my opinion, means that for a period of at least three years you would have been mentioned in dispatches for a "planet Earth" Touring party - so for current players, you'd apply the epithet to maybe:
Batsmen: Sangakkara, Clarke, Amla, De Villiers, Younus Khan, Williamson, McCullum, Pietersen, Warner
All Rounders: hmmm....
Spinners: Herath, Ajmal (if you "allow" for the elbow")
Seamers: Steyn, Morkel, Johnson, Harris, Anderson, Boult
So, not many....
Appreciate in this that there are a few recent retirees who would have made the list - Smith, Kallis, Swann, Tendulkar, Hussey - but its still a rarified list.
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AS far as I'm concerned, a "world class" player is someone that would walk into any test team without anyone batting an eyelid. There are currently very few players in the world that I would deem as world class. Some are potentials, but I don't think England have anyone who is world class at the moment apart from maybe Root.
Stokes has potential if utilised correctly as a middle order batsman who bowls a bit, like Neesham or Anderson for NZ
Ali has held his own as a spinner, but he's not a frontline spinner. I'd like to see Riley or Rashid given a go.
AS much as I love trotty, I think selecting him is both a big mistake and a backwards step. KP would also be a big mistake.
FWIW, my team would be:
Lyth - Scored stacks of runs over the last few years. Pick hik, open with him and stick with it.
Cook - For better or worse, give him till the end of the summer as skipper. If he carries on failing, make Bell skipper until Root is ready
Ballance - HAs been solid if unspectacular. Plays the Trott role well, but does have an extra gear
Bell - Bit of experience and a fantastic fielder, should be VC
Root - Future captain
Stokes/Ali - depends on the pitch
Buttler - Current incumbent, not the finished article, but improving. Bats well with Root.
Rashid - Spin option, lower order steel
Woakes - 3rd seamer and can bat. Stock bowler
Broad
Anderson - Make him Tests only and carefully manage his workload to keep him bowling flat out. Should be used in short bursts to maintain his effectiveness
Coming through the ranks, I'd like to see Zafar Ansari really kick on with the bat and Stuart Meaker get back to where he was when he earned a call up a couple of years ago. Foottit looks a decent bet. Mills keeps getting bandied around, but he's not played regularly enough for my liking. James Vince has to go in, and I'm still mystified at Taylor not being there.
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Ballance has been spectacular so far, in tests.
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interesting ones for the statoes in you.. how many of the world class cooks tons have been against genuinely decent attacks??
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Define decent attacks?
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Define decent attacks?
Ones stronger than: Footit, Anderson, Plunkett, Ali?
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interesting ones for the statoes in you.. how many of the world class cooks tons have been against genuinely decent attacks??
I'd say 16 out of 26 are notable to be fair to him - either against genuinely world class attacks, massive "Daddy" hundreds against decent attacks, or in adverse conditions.
May 2013, against New Zealand at Headingley, was the last though...
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http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positionmax1=2;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=1;opposition=2;orderby=batting_average;qualmin1=5;qualval1=matches;spanmin1=15+Mar+1918;spanval1=span;team=1;template=results;type=batting (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positionmax1=2;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=1;opposition=2;orderby=batting_average;qualmin1=5;qualval1=matches;spanmin1=15+Mar+1918;spanval1=span;team=1;template=results;type=batting)
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[url]http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positionmax1=2;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=1;opposition=2;orderby=batting_average;qualmin1=5;qualval1=matches;spanmin1=15+Mar+1918;spanval1=span;team=1;template=results;type=batting[/url] ([url]http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positionmax1=2;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=1;opposition=2;orderby=batting_average;qualmin1=5;qualval1=matches;spanmin1=15+Mar+1918;spanval1=span;team=1;template=results;type=batting[/url])
Root should, open this summer?
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Root should, open this summer?
Could be, or see if Herbert Sutcliffe and Len Hutton fancy a knock from beyond the grave?
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what did compton and carbs avg when opening out of interest?
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what did compton and carbs avg when opening out of interest?
Neither of them didn't open did they so 31.93 and 28.75 respectively?
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-england-2015/engine/match/766925.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-england-2015/engine/match/766925.html)
Presumably Trott will take the opening spot then for the first test. Some wickets for Stokes and runs for Cook even if against a slightly questionable XI.
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So, surprise surprise, England go for the most conservative option available.
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oh look, Cook is scoring runs vs the worst team ever.. He's back, he's awesome.. nothing to see here.. Cook is a world class batsmen.. best ever
zzz
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Look away now. All the old boys are back. Why pick people then don't play them? Plunkets a better bowler than Jordan
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it's a bit of a pointless tour. WI are so weak it's just a ego massage for players like Cook, Broad and co. They'll smash WI, get big runs and the media/ECB will coo over how good they are, how much they don't need new players and then will get smashed by the australians and it'll be 'it's ok, they've scored loads recently, we can keep them going a bit longer'
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Can't agree more procricket1982.
Especially as the england camp have already announced "win in the West Indies and we can then move on from pietersen"
They might aswell, have said. "Have a holiday and a net and we'll then claim your all in good enough Nick to not pick pietersen"
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This will be the series where Bell translates his 'looking good in the nets' into big runs!
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it's a bit of a pointless tour. WI are so weak it's just a ego massage for players like Cook, Broad and co. They'll smash WI, get big runs and the media/ECB will coo over how good they are, how much they don't need new players and then will get smashed by the australians and it'll be 'it's ok, they've scored loads recently, we can keep them going a bit longer'
I agree they are weak but what would you suggest as an alternative? For the good of world cricket all teams need to go around the world and play even the weaker test sides or the test game will very quickly just be Eng, Aus, India and SA playing each other
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I agree they are weak but what would you suggest as an alternative? For the good of world cricket all teams need to go around the world and play even the weaker test sides or the test game will very quickly just be Eng, Aus, India and SA playing each other
you are right of course, the 'big' teams do need to tour the smaller nations for the good of the game. However, as Cam points out.. ECB/media will hail some runs and a few wins as the end of poor England, the second coming of them and as stated 'move on from KP'.
People seem reluctant to actually say 'if you don't avg 60+ vs such teams then you aren't performing'
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Whilst i agree it may end up being a waste of time, this tour will have been pencilled in the Future Tours thingy for years. Way before KP stated his desire to seriously return, before he even retired in the first place.
Hell, we were probably still good when it was planned, it was so long ago
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The ECB facebook page wsa making a thing out of bowling them out for sweet FA, and the result? A lot of abuse from the people who follow the ECB. Similar to this thread in fact!
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this tour was indeed planned ages ago so we have to go on it. it wont do a great deal in regards to the Ashes coming up and we look like second favourites for that(although I still believe it will be a close series)
West Indies cricket needs the tour now, the need revenue.High and mighty India still have the axe hovering over them from the cancelled tour last year.
I'm sure even genuine Indian fans would not want to see the Windies backrupted,because that is a very real threat if they hammer them thru fines and penalties.
The ECB, for getting into bed with India and Australia and to hell with the world game, are no better in my book :)
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It is hardly the ECB's fault that the St Kitts invitational XI is terrible and includes a 16 year old!
This is a good tour and it will be good for the Eng team to play test cricket again. We cannot be so arrogant to think oh we will walk past the WIndies team - for a number of reasons
Firstly they have a decent bowling attack - in many cases comparable to ours, they have some talented young batsmen who will be hungry for the riches their IPL colleagues are collecting, so will want to put up a good fight.
plus our team are mollycoddled and can't think for themselves.
The pitches are a largely unknown quantity, but will likely be low and slow.
I am not sure the one day specialists who are in India will be hugely missed.
The Eng cricket team is not currently all that good, this tour will prove that.
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The ECB facebook page wsa making a thing out of bowling them out for sweet FA, and the result? A lot of abuse from the people who follow the ECB. Similar to this thread in fact!
Yes but why make a big deal in getting out poor players?? Who really shows off getting poorer players out?
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you are right of course, the 'big' teams do need to tour the smaller nations for the good of the game. However, as Cam points out.. ECB/media will hail some runs and a few wins as the end of poor England, the second coming of them and as stated 'move on from KP'.
People seem reluctant to actually say 'if you don't avg 60+ vs such teams then you aren't performing'
People should say that, after they were skittled for 59 seems a few pundits on Twitter seem to be saying exactly that. Just hope the media and fans dont get sucked into the football national side mentality of one decent performance and everyone starts talking of a golden generation
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I think the issue @buzz is that the majority of the cricket watching public is already well aware of how good the England team is. It is just the ECB that isn't.
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@buzz care to explain what the twitter storm was about today? Hard to follow all the tweets.
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@Buzz care to explain what the twitter storm was about today? Hard to follow all the tweets.
Had to do some actual work today, what Twitter storm?
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Involving mike selvey, Derek Pringle and a few fans, to do with KP.
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Involving mike selvey, Derek Pringle and a few fans, to do with KP.
Unlike KP to get involved in a Twitter row......
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Wasn't KP, I think it was something to do with a piece selvey wrote, but buzz knows all about it.
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@Buzz care to explain what the twitter storm was about today? Hard to follow all the tweets.
In simple terms someone called Elaine asked Selvey and Pringle not to be so odious and in the pockets of the ECB
you can read the thread here: https://twitter.com/selvecricket/status/584985662169948160
it enters the realms of bonkersness when Pringle suggests that KP has an agenda (and the ECB doesn't!) and that KP's claims are all false because they have been denied by the perpetrators...
It culminates with Selvey tweeting:
"you imply dishonesty then and when someone queries my integrity they are out of here."
The fact is that Selvey, Pringle and the guy from the independent have been biased and dreadful from the beginning, have been totally impartial and are just looking out for their mates.
KP wasn't involved
The whole thing is disgusting.
Note that Elaine is a pensioner!! Not a young pretender spoiling for a fight.
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Exact reason i hate the whole affair the water so murky all i see is one loser English Cricket as a whole the whole lot is a shambles the lot.
Kp is a pleb but so are others for not managing him and others better and the fall out well it just crap...
Piss up in Timothy Taylor Brewery would be better!!!
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Ah ok. I did notice that the guardian posted a link to a story title "Cook and Trott put St Kitts to the sword" which had been commented on by Elaine and selvey has a few mentions too.
Press seem to be very much in the pockets of the ECB, can't say I blame them as with the number of "leaks" coming from the ECB must make your life as a cricket journo an extremely easy ride!
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Ah ok. I did notice that the guardian posted a link to a story title "Cook and Trott put St Kitts to the sword" which had been commented on by Elaine and selvey has a few mentions too.
Press seem to be very much in the pockets of the ECB, can't say I blame them as with the number of "leaks" coming from the ECB must make your life as a cricket journo an extremely easy ride!
That's the issue though for me, once you get too close to those in theory you are reporting on, you lose focus, you lose objectivness and most all, you lose neutrality. So these guys end up just being the media arm of the ECB.
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That's the issue though for me, once you get too close to those in theory you are reporting on, you lose focus, you lose objectivness and most all, you lose neutrality. So these guys end up just being the media arm of the ECB.
Agree, it means that the ECB can pretty much get away with anything. With the media in their pockets its up to the fans to vote with their feet. Whilst attendances in the North over the last few summers for test matches have been down slightly the London games will always sell out. The ECB then deny there is a problem as they still make money and can still throw a number of sell outs/spectators at the media who lap it up and pretend all is rosy and good. Be interesting to see the reaction to this summers ashes given the amount of ashes cricket played in recent years
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Why are these two so 'loved' as cricket writers ? Surely their editor sees that hey aren't reporting just cycling ECB PR.. Or is that what normal management do too? Just take the easy road.
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I think because mainstream media have stopped covering cricket in such depth there are less and less journos reporting on cricket. It leaves the ones who are left in a higher regard than would normally be because there isn't much competition to compare with (at least in my opinion anyway)
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not sure who is rating selvey and pringle,who is now the size of a semi detatched house...highly.
don't know if it's the average cricket fan.
Atherton I reckon is the best modern day writer as far as the newspapers go. Selvey and Pringle probably saw similar type situations in their playing days almost certainly dealt with in a different manner- a pint or a fight probably.
English cricket is still an old boys club it's no surprise that extends to the press. Certainly Pringle and the Daily Mail has tried to do a hatchet job on KP in the past
eventually thou the fans will see thru all the spin and agendas.Either they want England to move on from this sorry mess or want KP back asap.
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So how is today's line up going to work? I must say, 2 days doesn't seem to give people much of a chance.
For my tuppence worth, I feel that Rashid needs a good long bowl, as do Anderson and Broad.
Balance, Lyth, Bell and Root need some time in the middle too.
I'd win the toss and bat all day today, with guys retiring on 65.
I'd line up as -
Trott
Lyth
Balance
Bell
Root
Buttler
Rashid
Broad
Plunkett
Anderson
Tredwell
I have a feeling that Stokes is already pencilled in but I feel 2 spinners may work for us out there, so it's a shootout amongst the seamers for who is fit / in form.
The I think the batting places are between Lyth / Trott / Balance, so they need a fair dig.
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Trott opening for St Kitts and went for a 3rd ball Duck, Bairstow and Ballance also batting for them.
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cant work out why Bairstow is playing, how does he fit into the test team?
also....for those cynical about the ECB backing press Wisden magazine has articles on the web basically slating the ECB and how English cricket is run
they are right...and it's quite refreshing :)
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cant work out why Bairstow is playing, how does he fit into the test team?
Reserve Keeper and a decent batting cover.
Also, he's the token ginger. There's quotas to fill don't you know....
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haha!!
he's a good cricketer Bairstow, a bit unlucky Buttler came on so quickly with Prior retiring,he didn't get a long run
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Wonder if the ecb will try to say that wisden are those "outside of cricket" as they usually do when someone knocks them.
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Broad apparently limps off - that might actually sharpen our attack with a bright keen replacement.
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Broad apparently limps off - that might actually sharpen our attack with a bright keen replacement.
I'm not unhappy he's injured tbh
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Is there actually an active scorecard anywhere for this - Cricinfo seems to be a little behind.