Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Latest Matches => Topic started by: six and out on March 01, 2022, 07:50:59 PM
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Starting this off as the warm up starts today.
You can watch it on the WI You Tube feed below
https://youtu.be/hF5Zv2tse24
At time of writing we are 186-2 . Lees 61 not out, Root and Crawley both got 50's
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Could not be better for Lees and the Guardian have Lawrence playing ahead of Pope so if he gets a few it will do him the world of good.
Not sure if there is much between the last batting spot but Lawrence when I’ve seen him does look to take it on when he is in.
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Yeah seems like Lawrence will be in ahead of Pope. I think Pope probably has more raw talent and potential, but he’s been in such bad form…
Anyone else going to the first test?
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Is this series on sky or bt?
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Is this series on sky or bt?
BT Sport I believe
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Yes BT have the rights for cricket in the WI. Will be taking the host feed and adding studio show back in London as they did for the ashes.
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Does anyone know what's the next series that Sky have the rights to? Feels like I haven't been able to watch England play for so long.
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Does anyone know what's the next series that Sky have the rights to? Feels like I haven't been able to watch England play for so long.
I imagine it’ll be the home NZ series in june
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Please let this be the start of Lawrence actually getting a decent run in the side.
Really like the composition of this England batting order now, younger guys mixed in among the experienced heads and a better mix of accumulators and stroke-makers.
Lees, while he batted slowly, does seem to have the ability to score round the wicket that Sibley never really showed consistently. Much harder to tie a player down with your field settings if he has that in his locker.
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Yeah seems like Lawrence will be in ahead of Pope. I think Pope probably has more raw talent and potential, but he’s been in such bad form…
Anyone else going to the first test?
Surely there is no probably about it? Pope's CC numbers are outstanding. Excluding a brief spell in 18/19 when he looked like he'd finally cracked it, he hasn't yet set the world alight in tests although again like so many of our batters I believe he has been a victim of the merry-go-round selection processes. He's batted at 4, 5, 6 and 7 plus he's even been asked to be a keeper for one test. In the short term I do agree with Lawrence being selected ahead of Pope to give him time to rebuild his confidence, I'd like to see Stokes move up to 4 and then Pope/Lawrence bedded in over the next year or two between the experience of Stokes and Bairstow ultimately with the goal of having them bat together at 5 & 6 when Bairstow presumably retires from tests in the next couple of years.
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Surely there is no probably about it? Pope's CC numbers are outstanding. Excluding a brief spell in 18/19 when he looked like he'd finally cracked it, he hasn't yet set the world alight in tests although again like so many of our batters I believe he has been a victim of the merry-go-round selection processes. He's batted at 4, 5, 6 and 7 plus he's even been asked to be a keeper for one test. In the short term I do agree with Lawrence being selected ahead of Pope to give him time to rebuild his confidence, I'd like to see Stokes move up to 4 and then Pope/Lawrence bedded in over the next year or two between the experience of Stokes and Bairstow ultimately with the goal of having them bat together at 5 & 6 when Bairstow presumably retires from tests in the next couple of years.
Pope's numbers at the Oval are outstanding. Away from the Oval, he is on a par with plenty of other county batsmen.
He is a very lucky boy to be on this tour given not just his record at Test level but the way he has been getting himself out.
Lawrence may not be as easy on the eye but seems to have much more about him as a person. Looks to me to be someone who could perform the role Collingwood played in the middle order
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Pope may of benefitted playing at the Oval but has been outstanding for such a young player.
But for England so far there’s not enough substance, to me he always looks jittery at the crease.
Bit surprised we went first with Lawrence but he deserves a chance- it doesn’t really matter how you score as long as you do, players like Cook and Trott and Collingwood actually were not stylists but got runs and that’s the priority.
Anyway Robinson potential back injury and Wood is unwell. Do Broad and Anderson get on a plane for test 2 or we suck it and see with the newbies?
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Surely there is no probably about it? Pope's CC numbers are outstanding. Excluding a brief spell in 18/19 when he looked like he'd finally cracked it, he hasn't yet set the world alight in tests although again like so many of our batters I believe he has been a victim of the merry-go-round selection processes. He's batted at 4, 5, 6 and 7 plus he's even been asked to be a keeper for one test. In the short term I do agree with Lawrence being selected ahead of Pope to give him time to rebuild his confidence, I'd like to see Stokes move up to 4 and then Pope/Lawrence bedded in over the next year or two between the experience of Stokes and Bairstow ultimately with the goal of having them bat together at 5 & 6 when Bairstow presumably retires from tests in the next couple of years.
Well as it’s just an opinion, I think probably is needed! I’m sure plenty of people would argue the other way around…as people have pointed out above his stats are quite skewed when playing at the oval. He’s had some brilliant innings in his career to date, but a lot of low scores too. But a lot of more experienced, older players have also had poor runs of form!
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Can we bin Robinson off for now with these fitness issues? Bordering on ridiculous now, particularly when Broad and Anderson were left behind
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The selection call I fail to understand is leaving Broad and Anderson at home but taking Woakes and Overton. I fully accept the need to bring new bowlers through, but it seems to me that should be expense of guys who have never looked threatening in overseas conditions.
Not clear how serious the issues with Wood and Robinson are, but i can't imagine Strauss will be relishing the prospect of having to call any bowlers into this tour party
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Batting first
Here's to misery
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After years of waiting, StokesFoakesWoakes is finally happening. Such a shame Bairstow is at 6.
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After years of waiting, StokesFoakesWoakes is finally happening. Such a shame Bairstow is at 6.
Maybe the main reason they've selected Woakes?! 😆
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Hahahahahaha
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Normal service is resumed
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Hack of a grab, but God we are so bad...
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Well well well
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Jesus Christ
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I predicted 32-3 so not far off.
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Maybe the main reason they've selected Woakes?! 😆
Thank God they've selected Woakes for the depth in batting! 😂
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Sounds like conditions are pretty good for bowling, is there something I've missed that makes the decision to bat first make sense?
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I don't think it was the wrong call at the toss. It is just a very slow pitch which is well suited the Roach and Holder creating pressure by making scoring very difficult
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Didn't Root himself say the first session was going to be tough? Commentary seemed to be there was a lot of swing on offer early doors, just seems very strange with a new, untried batting lineup to choose to bat first in those conditions.
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Ah, ginger power
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Seales has only bowled 9 overs and already has 2 warnings for running on the pitch
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Foakes is once again looking more of a batsman than our batsman :)
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How on fecking Earth did the selectors think Buttler was the better option, ever
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Gone now but someone had to stay with Bairstow as he rapidly gets the scoreboard moving.
We at least have some sort of score now.
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Good fight back from Bairstow, Stokes + Foakes. Given themselves a chance here
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Get in Jonny
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How on fecking Earth did the selectors think Buttler was the better option, ever
Exactly that
It's painful seeing him play now and look do good, knowing we should have had this for the last 5 years if they'd picked him
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You have three wicketkeeper batsmen. Let's call them Jonny, Jos and Ben. Two are potentially test class with the bat (Jonny and Ben), one is world class with the gloves (Ben) as well, and one is an admittedly brilliant one day buffer with Teflon gloves. Obviously, you can guess which one was deemed undroppable by successive regimes.
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Anything over 300 looks a pretty good score to me on what looks like an incredibly dry pitch for the first day of a test match.
Never really understood the antipathy towards Bairstow. Averaging 35 with the bat is hardly world beating but of the current generation only Stokes and Root have performed better and he is an outstanding fielder. Also clearly a guy passionate about playing cricket for England with a huge amount of character. I learn towards the view that this would have to be a very good England side for him to be tje weak link
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YJB is largely loathed on here for reasons that escape me. He has been horribly messed around by the selectors as well. I don't claim his record in Test cricket is where it could have been, but you wonder what he might have managed had he been treated the way Goldenballs was.
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Buttler may of been given an extended run as Root needed him on the field and vice Captain in some matches.
I think Strauss has given Root what he wants without the big two bowlers but also without his right hand man to see if he can Captain the side on his own.
Bairstow in Sri Lanka played well, and kept it up since then. You wouldn’t drop him from the line up we have.
I think he is better in the lower middle order, it suits his game rather than a 3 or 4.
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YJB is largely loathed on here for reasons that escape me. He has been horribly messed around by the selectors as well. I don't claim his record in Test cricket is where it could have been, but you wonder what he might have managed had he been treated the way Goldenballs was.
Loathed is maybe a bit strong. Until he sorted out his problems with straight, fast bowling he was a daft pick in red ball cricket. Seems to have worked it out and looks much more like the player he looked like he could be.
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Maybe Jonny Bairstow was always destined to be a Test match number 6, with or without the gloves. I saw on another site, Bairstow averaged 40 at number 6.
There’s no shame in being a specialist lower middle order batsman, heck Stephen Waugh and Shiv Chanderpaul are all time greats and they thrived at 5 & 6.
Bairstow at number 6 can thrive against the older ball and take the game away from the opponents.
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Loathed is maybe a bit strong. Until he sorted out his problems with straight, fast bowling he was a daft pick in red ball cricket. Seems to have worked it out and looks much more like the player he looked like he could be.
I think the view on Bairstow is that he is a genuinely world class talent, but its very difficult for him to be a world class top 6 test batsmen and England's leading T20 opener simultaneously - the technique you need to drill and the instincts you need to hone are mutually exclusive.
England need to decide which of those two things they want him to be from this point on, and drop him from the other format (like they, correctly, dropped Root from the T20 squad). If they do that, he'll have a great finish to his career. If they try to get him to switch between them every month or so, then he'll never be more than mediocre and inconsistent.
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I think loathing him is also a bit excessive, but with his record for being castled through the gate doesn't help matters.
Really, really hope this is the turning of the screw for him, because in the grand scheme of things he's what this team needs
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YJB is largely loathed on here for reasons that escape me. He has been horribly messed around by the selectors as well. I don't claim his record in Test cricket is where it could have been, but you wonder what he might have managed had he been treated the way Goldenballs was.
Well batted Bairstow. Proper good test match knock, showing maturity and the correct test match mentality required. IF.. IF.. he approaches every innings like that with patience, willing to just wait for bad balls and NOT FORCE IT... What a number 6 England could have for a few years.
If he goes back to forcing it mode then he'll come unstuck yet again.
Anyway.. Well batted Bairstow.
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Leaving Broad and Anderson out of the tour just hit home when Craig Overton took the new ball.
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This is some absolute dross
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how come the windies got the ball to swing so much and we havent moved a single ball in the air?
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Along with leaving Broad and Anderson at home, the decision to put Mahmood in the twelve then leave him out for Woakes and Overton is a little baffling. We know what they can do, why not see what Mahmood is about at this level?
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Along with leaving Broad and Anderson at home, the decision to put Mahmood in the twelve then leave him out for Woakes and Overton is a little baffling. We know what they can do, why not see what Mahmood is about at this level?
One of Woakes or Overton made sense for their batting, no Mahmood is bizarre though.
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Can't believe Woakes got one!
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Strauss spoke about ‘red ball reset’ why on earth did England not give Mahmood, Fisher and Parkinson a chance?
Woakes is atrocious away from home.
Overton average at best
Leach very mediocre.
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Strauss spoke about ‘red ball reset’ why on earth did England not give Mahmood, Fisher and Parkinson a chance?
Woakes is atrocious away from home.
Overton average at best
Leach very mediocre.
Leach has done pretty reasonably, would do a whole lot better if he consistently had proper fields set for him by Root.
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That is brilliant from Stokes
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Woakes and Overton as uninspiring as you could imagine with the second new ball. Overton bowling mid 120s…
Give Wood the new ball
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A bit of dodgy umpiring I am hearing?
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Some more dross with the new ball
Broad and Anderson died for this
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At least we're learning that Overton isn't an opening bowler at this level for certain. Woakes has improved as the innings has gone on. Robinson looks a big miss on this wicket.
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I like Woakes all round package but he’s in to bolster the batting in this team I think.
Would like to have seen Mahmood just to see what he has.
I still think yeah we have to find new bowlers but if there is any movement or swing at all we need Anderson…I don’t think his age matters or whether he’s difficult to manage- which there is no proof of just guesswork
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I am also at a loss to understand why Mahmood isn't playing here.
I don't agree with leaving Broad and Anderson out, but if you are going to look to the future, it needs to be an opportunity for new faces like Parkinson and Mahmood to have a go, not those like Overton, Woakes and Leach who have had a chance not taken it
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Absolute gift from Joseph
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Well batted Bonner, haven't heard of him before but he's doing well here. Hopefully the tailenders don't pick up too many runs.
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This is so dire
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This lead is looking more than handy. Pitch sounds flat from BBC text but we don’t absorb pressure well batting.
We really cannot bowl Stokes into the ground in this situation. Root or even Lawrence need to bowl, plus 130 overs in the field is a hefty workload
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Leach's stats are looking good, 43 overs, economy of 1.84. 20 maidens! Gonna have a look at the highlights shortly but he's doing something right.
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Leach's stats are looking good, 43 overs, economy of 1.84. 20 maidens! Gonna have a look at the highlights shortly but he's doing something right.
He just needs to bowl and then be judged, unfair to criticise when he plays a test and then carries drinks, gets 12th man duty in England so misses county games so can go months without bowling in a game, hopefully he bowls 150 odd overs in this series and we can see how he goes when he plays on a regular basis.
On another note for all this talk of WI being a poor and brittle batting unit they have done quite well so far in this innings. Albeit this is a poor England attack that have bowled even worse for the large part.
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Learnt nothing new so far from this so called reboot
Overton and Woakes should only ever be considered on a green seamer. I could have told Root/Silverwood/Strauss that 5 years ago. Average speeds in the 70s is simply unacceptable.
Leach tidy but generally unthreatening, as you would expect for an orthodox finger spinner on an unhelpful pitch. Did a solid job for the team.
Stokes and Wood genuine threats but injury risks.
If the pitch is as flat as this for the 2nd Test id love to see Mahmood and Parkinson get a go. They will both present more of a wicket threat than the opening bowlers!
Well batted Bonner, patient and put the short ball away when it came. And also Kemar Roach who lasted nearly 100 deliveries - which was Joe Denlys target at 3 not too long ago.
Enjoyed the commentary from Butcher and Bishop particularly!
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Fair play to Bonner, played to his strengths and grinded the Poms down. Wood getting injury obviously didn’t help.
I thought Leach was poor. On a slow pitch you need to bowl quicker. He bowls too short and Bonner played him so easily off the back foot. Leach isn’t a big turner either. Not really got much going for him. Might be wise to study videos of Jadeja and Al Hasan to learn some new tricks.
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People are always better players when they are not in the side. The pitch is pretty lifeless. I thought the West Indies bowled well and moved the ball more than the English bowlers. The West Indies have also batted a bit better than the England side. I think we have to face the facts that we are a very ordinary test match side and that is emphasized even more so when we play away from home. Yesterday's play was very slow and would have turned the casual fan off from test match cricket. There really isn't much strength in depth when it comes to the England test match team. I was particularly cheesed off with Collingwood's summary at the end of the day when he praised how well we had fielded. We didn't bowl particularly well and the bowling was a much of a muchness, no imagination or creativity in what we did. Leach has bowled economically which is good but doesn't look threatening.
I think the whole test side and the domestic red ball game in England needs a bit of imagination. Despite a decline we still have people that want to play cricket in the U.K so why can't we develop fast bowlers and spinners, what is our coaching structure etc. Is the County system working or is it too rigid? Do we need less quantity and some more quality?
We are of course more competitive at home but how many of us really see us winning an away Ashes in the next 20 years?
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I don't know what goes on with the coaching and producing fast bowlers. Kent used to produce plenty of their own good seamers (though not necessarily quick). Iggy was capped in 1989 - the next home grown capped seamer was Matt Coles.
I see people like Steffan Jones and Ian Pont actively developing fast bowlers (or trying to) - are they ever utilised by the ECB to help bring talent through?
India had no fast bowlers, so started their own pace foundation. Now they produce lots of decent quicks. Perhaps we need a dedicated fast bowling academy.
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im confused, we didnt appear to move the ball off straight for a a day and a half but Kemar Roach is hooping it from ball one?
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im confused, we didnt appear to move the ball off straight for a a day and a half but Kemar Roach is hooping it from ball one?
Because our opening bowlers are Chris Woakes (away from home) and Craig Overton. They just aren't opening bowlers.
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Seeing Alex Lees lbw in both innings as well as the number of lbws in general lately, I recollect recent video from Hussain where it explains that the middle and off stump guards of modern batsmen causes more lbws in recent years - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehWkuHa2Jkw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehWkuHa2Jkw)
Each has their own technique but taking leg stump guard was an old technique that worked for greats like Border, Viv Richards, Ponting and Sachin to name a few. Maybe it is easier to leave an outside off ball well from a leg stump guard than be able to avoid a lbw when covering the wickets and ball is swinging etc. Except for the one Hussain video, there aren't any other analyses on this very important part of technique. Would be good to see more analysis on this by the experts.
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Thing is, if it's straight and you miss it, you should be out either way?
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Thing is, if it's straight and you miss it, you should be out either way?
True, but would the same player miss the same ball if they'd taken a different guard?
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Thing is, if it's straight and you miss it, you should be out either way?
Not necessarily. Two things at play here
1) If leg stump guard, you have easy access to ball on middle and off stump lines (as pads out of the way), so you play with bat more often for balls on the stumps line
2) If the ball is angling in and impact on leg stump line, then high chance it might be going down leg versus impact on middle or off
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Watching us bat well is quite jarring
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Yes both Crawley and Root have got themselves in
But let’s not get too giddy, this is a very flat pitch. It does not appear to be turning much either. We struggled to bowl them out and overseas Woakes does not have good figures. Overton is even less threatening thou hopefully we give someone else a chance in the next game.
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Great for Zak Crawley to get his second test Ton, when he gets in and playing well it’s such a nice change to the likes of Sibley and Burns before him. See if he can make it a daddy one like his last and kick on in this series and year.
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Just looked at the score... The pitch must be an absolute road.
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Runs for Root, Bairstow, Crawley, and Foakes. Don't care about the pitch, this is just what England needed!
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Not necessarily. Two things at play here
1) If leg stump guard, you have easy access to ball on middle and off stump lines (as pads out of the way), so you play with bat more often for balls on the stumps line
2) If the ball is angling in and impact on leg stump line, then high chance it might be going down leg versus impact on middle or off
If it's going down leg, it's going down leg. I said if the ball was straight.
I would say one of the benefits of off/middle and off is probably that you can get your pad outside the line to the ball jagging back in to hit the stumps.
Another thing I've heard is that players have realised they were triggering to get onto off-stump, so have thought why no just start there?
But I'm not a fan, and I understand the accessing the ball / not 'closing yourself off' arguments.
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Root looking classy in this knock, not really noticed it before but his cover drive is Ian Bell good it’s that nice to watch.
Lees and Crawley doing the England opened job of getting in then out or just none at all. Be good to see how Lawrence goes as he was really going for it to help England try and set up the win in the 2nd innings last test. Pitch looks a bit better but reckon this will be another flat hard slog for the bowlers.
Fisher and Mahmood making there debuts so wishing them well
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Good start at 100/2 but I think they are a bowler light. Don't want to risk Stokes for too many overs and not sure how Fisher or Mahmood will do bowling 20+ overs at this level.
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Mahmood struggled noticeably to maintaining his pace in first class cricket last year. Fisher does not struggle to do so but has a past littered with injuries. That said, the pitch looks to be one on which Leach will be kept pretty busy anyway, and we have two decent part timers in Root and Lawrence. (note - I was SOOOOO tempted to add Woakes and call it three part timers!)
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Woakes/Fisher/Mahmood/Leach plus overs from Stokes, Lawrence and Root? It's not massively experienced but surely they should be able to get enough bowling out of that lineup.
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Yea it’s enough bowling with Leach away from the right handers and Root and Lawrence in. What we do not want is Root constantly going to Stokes in this game. He is an absolute star but Root does not seem to grasp over bowling guys into the ground.
On a more positive note, second innings last test and first this one, Lawrence seems to me to have the confidence to play.
Early days thou.
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We really don't deserve Joe Root
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Love this from Lawrence, hoping he can push on to a real statement score.
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Dan Lawrence SR of 76, pretty impressive for 50 runs in this format. It would be a real message if he gets a decent score here.
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Yea it’s enough bowling with Leach away from the right handers and Root and Lawrence in. What we do not want is Root constantly going to Stokes in this game. He is an absolute star but Root does not seem to grasp over bowling guys into the ground.
On a more positive note, second innings last test and first this one, Lawrence seems to me to have the confidence to play.
Early days thou.
Guess you didn't see Stokes quote after the last test? I struggle with people blaming Root for over bowling people. Surely a bowler knows his body and isn't just going to keep bowling if he thinks he can't? You'd also think Root wouldn't be forcing someone to bowl who clearly wasn't fit enough to do so, or said they were fatigued/injured etc
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Guess you didn't see Stokes quote after the last test? I struggle with people blaming Root for over bowling people. Surely a bowler knows his body and isn't just going to keep bowling if he thinks he can't? You'd also think Root wouldn't be forcing someone to bowl who clearly wasn't fit enough to do so, or said they were fatigued/injured etc
Stokes does seem the type who might need protected from himself though. Can't see him telling Root he can't bowl because he's hurting or knackered, he'd just push through it and end up really hurting himself.
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Stokes does seem the type who might need protected from himself though. Can't see him telling Root he can't bowl because he's hurting or knackered, he'd just push through it and end up really hurting himself.
I take your point but he's not a rookie and if that's the case then the blame would lie with Stokes, not Root. Just feel he gets some unfair stick at times. If a senior player and one of your best tells you he's fit to bowl, you'd bowl him imo
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Guess you didn't see Stokes quote after the last test? I struggle with people blaming Root for over bowling people. Surely a bowler knows his body and isn't just going to keep bowling if he thinks he can't? You'd also think Root wouldn't be forcing someone to bowl who clearly wasn't fit enough to do so, or said they were fatigued/injured etc
I did see Stokes after the test actually and again, Stokes needs protecting from himself, he’s already caned Archer
Root is the bloody Captain
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I take your point but he's not a rookie and if that's the case then the blame would lie with Stokes, not Root. Just feel he gets some unfair stick at times. If a senior player and one of your best tells you he's fit to bowl, you'd bowl him imo
Think sometimes the captain and coaches have to take responsibility for a player's welfare, especially when you know their personality like Root will know Stokes.
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Bit of a brainfade from Lawrence, got greedy. Hundred there for the taking
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I did see Stokes after the test actually and again, Stokes needs protecting from himself, he’s already caned Archer
Root is the bloody Captain
Bloody hell mate, bloody keep your bloody hair on! 😆
He is and Stokes, regardless of personality, is a senior player of vast experience and shouldn't need to be second guessed by the skipper.
Wondered how long it would be before Archer was mentioned. Which was obviously all down to Root, as has been widely reported by England's medical staff and Archer himself. Although i must have missed that.
Do we really think the amount of overs the bowlers bowl is solely down to the captain and he isn't advised by numerous people, medical staff etc etc? This is what i meant by him getting unwarranted stick. A bowler gets injured....oh Roots overbowled him obviously.
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I see what you’re saying here for sure. Root has advisers etc etc and these guys are pros who need to take responsibility. Archer for example could have got injured under Cook or Strauss in exactly the same way. We just don’t know. I do think he has a nasty habit of over bowling fast bowlers a bit though, don’t you?
I’ve never rated Root as a particularly good captain but who else is there? It’s a tough job and I love his passion.Maybe we have just bang average and even Mike Brearley would have struggled!
A few years back I would have been intrigued to see Broad do it- at least he would get in the side! But then we would miss his magnificent interviews in the chair on sky lol.
Like Strauss said the other day- there is a lot of doom and gloom around English cricket at the moment. With Strauss involved in some way I’m sure things can improve in time. I’m going to try and get behind the team a bit more in the future and try to be more positive in general.
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Will never get bored of watching Stokes' on drive
It's such a gorgeous shot
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Jesus Christ he's so good when the game lets him play his way. Ridiculous power.
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Sounds like he's playing more like himself. Great sign for England but also it's so nice to see Stokes batting like himself and enjoying it after all he's been through recently.
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Wow. Nearly hitting at a run a ball, is the pitch doing absolutely nothing or has the bowling been poor? Or just excellent batting for once?
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ICC needs some sort of mandate for pitches. You see matches in India lasting 8 sessions. Then you get cement pitches in Pakistan and the Caribbean.
I don’t see what these flat dead pitches do for test cricket.
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This one and Antigua are pretty flat but if it turns in the later part of the game we can have no complaints away from home.
But flat and does nothing for any bowlers yes totally agree.
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ICC needs some sort of mandate for pitches. You see matches in India lasting 8 sessions. Then you get cement pitches in Pakistan and the Caribbean.
I don’t see what these flat dead pitches do for test cricket.
Agreed, having watched the two tests in this series so far and the two from Pakistan, these surfaces simply aren't good enough to make the game a balance between and ball.
There is obviously a financial incentive for grounds to prepare this type of wicket to maximise revenue. That would change if the ICC more readily banned grounds from hosting further games for preparing wickets like this
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Hopefully the ICC doesn't see it as a way for more "big scores" "big name player scores 250" etc. Test cricket is best when the batters have to really fight for their runs, if both sides are scoring 400+ in the first innings then the match will end up a draw almost every time.
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Mark Wood elbow gone pop. Good old cement pitches smh
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ICC needs some sort of mandate for pitches. You see matches in India lasting 8 sessions. Then you get cement pitches in Pakistan and the Caribbean.
I don’t see what these flat dead pitches do for test cricket.
I was having a chat with a friend of mine in India who plays 1st class there and pro's here in the UK about the state of pitches in India and why they're so poor from day 1 of a test match - he basically said the Indian public are less interested in 5 day test matches and want quicker games otherwise they will switch off which impacts TV revenue from the sponsors etc. They have a big Star Sports TV deal and having quicker test matches that only India will win is better for bringing in revenue and keeping the fans interested.
IPL has killed the national team game over there, so they will keep producing (No Swearing Please) pitches.
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Mark Wood elbow gone pop. Good old cement pitches smh
This is the reason some of us get irate with the workload on Stokes.
From 4-5 quicks 12 months ago we are down to zero
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This is the reason some of us get irate with the workload on Stokes.
From 4-5 quicks 12 months ago we are down to zero
Exactly
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This is a truly abject surface for test match cricket and England have a very underwhelming bowling attack, but I can't understand why Root isn't proactive in at least trying to make something happen.
Leach hasn't been able to hit a good length at all yet Root has allowed him to send down 264 balls in this innings in the return for the single wicket of a wide ball hit straight at point yet has barely bowled himself or Lawrence
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I think it’s time England cut their losses on Jack Leach. He’s very limited and quite frankly not test standard.
This pitch, whilst dead as a dodo for seam bowlers, was setup for Leach to work his way through the West Indians.
Any left arm spinner worth their salt should be able to land the ball consistently in the right area - both Leach and Permaul bowl too short and on leg stump. Leach’s 1-90 odd is quite frankly embarrassing.
Imagine what the likes of Jadeja, Al Hasan or that new guy Axar would’ve done on this pitch.
If Parkinson is as good as he’s made out to be, get him in the side.
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I think it’s time England cut their losses on Jack Leach. He’s very limited and quite frankly not test standard.
This pitch, whilst dead as a dodo for seam bowlers, was setup for Leach to work his way through the West Indians.
Any left arm spinner worth their salt should be able to land the ball consistently in the right area - both Leach and Permaul bowl too short and on leg stump. Leach’s 1-90 odd is quite frankly embarrassing.
Imagine what the likes of Jadeja, Al Hasan or that new guy Axar would’ve done on this pitch.
If Parkinson is as good as he’s made out to be, get him in the side.
Classic Gerry
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Boards need to have the book thrown at them for pitches like this
Awful session of 'cricket'
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I think it’s time England cut their losses on Jack Leach. He’s very limited and quite frankly not test standard.
This pitch, whilst dead as a dodo for seam bowlers, was setup for Leach to work his way through the West Indians.
Any left arm spinner worth their salt should be able to land the ball consistently in the right area - both Leach and Permaul bowl too short and on leg stump. Leach’s 1-90 odd is quite frankly embarrassing.
Imagine what the likes of Jadeja, Al Hasan or that new guy Axar would’ve done on this pitch.
If Parkinson is as good as he’s made out to be, get him in the side.
I could support the idea of leaving Broad and Anderson at home if it was an opportunity to see some new faces with a view to the Ashes in 4 years time. What I don't get is picking over 30s like Woakes and Leach.
Parkinson should have played here. He may or may not be good enough at this level, but he is someone who bowls genuinely threatening deliveries which Leach simply doesn't
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I rely on BBC text for info but with only one and a half days to go it’s as flat as the last one. Whatever spin is on show it’s too slow to worry anybody.
You are left to presume with the England side being on such demand in the Caribbean for revue, travelling fans in bars and hotels etc…the two pitches are deliberately done like this to get the full 10 days cricket.
I don’t personally find this type of cricket enjoyable, I expect us to be disadvantaged away but this is in no one’s favour.
Would like to see Parkinson given a try next game just to see if there’s potential
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A proper snooze fest.
Can't even judge Englands players accordingly. I don't think Leach gets another shot after this series.
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Well done Saqib! Bit of a gift
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Hopefully they can get them all out before the end of play today, at least we could get a day of batting practice tomorrow. With pitches like this, there's just no chance of a result at all.
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I thought West Indies would increase the scoring after avoiding the follow on. But Brathwaite seems happy to bat on forever...
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Fantastic delivery from Leach
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West Indies survive the final day after England tried to force the win.
West Indies skipper the immovable object as he adds an unbeaten half century to his first dig century. Unsurprisingly he was MoTM.
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This shrivels my nut-cluster!
Robinson not fit, so Woakes handed a reprieve!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What is the point - what more do England have to learn from Woakes overseas? He's poo, he;s a busted flush, he's impotent! Why pick him for a series decider. Why not leave Fisher in, why not pick Parkinson and play 2 spinners? What is wrong with England's selection decision-making!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
An attack of;
Stokes
Overton
Fisher
Leach
Mahmood
is at least moving forward, not flogging the same old dead horses.
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I wouldn't pick Overton either. Fisher, Mahmood, Stokes, Leach, Parkinson.
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You've got to assume Woakes batting is getting him three nod. Not that it should, but there's no other reason surely?
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I wouldn't pick Overton either. Fisher, Mahmood, Stokes, Leach, Parkinson.
Agree with this. Please apply when this lot of selectors are sacked. Cheers lol
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You've got to assume Woakes batting is getting him three nod. Not that it should, but there's no other reason surely?
If Woakes plays he should bat at three haha
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If Woakes plays he should bat at three haha
Last game of the series, let's just reverse the batting order and batters all bowl 😆
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Last game of the series, let's just reverse the batting order and batters all bowl 😆
Defo haha. Everyone should get a chance- it’s been a long tour 😅
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If the wicket is as flat as previous We will need some variety as the seamers are mostly impotent.
Missed chance to play Parkinson, if he doesn’t play away cannot see him playing any home tests.
For me so far Lawrence has been the plus point in the middle order
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Why take Parkinson and not give him a chance. It may do abit early on but 4th & 5th day - he could add something different to the attack.
Maybe the pace bowlers can go round the wicket and create some rough outside the right handers off stump -
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Woakes over Parkinson makes absolutely no sense here. Why bother bringing these players?
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All the media reports say track looks like there's something in it for the pacers - mistake not to play Parkinson last game but at least they've moved on from the Silverwood era of picking the team for the previous match all the time!
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England can't do anything about the pitches this series has been played on which have been responsible for a very poor standard of cricket, but they do control team selection which has been very poor.
Coming off the back of an Ashes series where an attack of right arm medium fast bowlers backed up by an ineffectual finger spinner proved yet again to be an unsuccessful formula, I am not really sure we have learnt anything here.
Parkinson had to play on this tour. If this isn't the surface for two spinners, he should have replaced Leach in the side
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England can't do anything about the pitches this series has been played on which have been responsible for a very poor standard of cricket, but they do control team selection which has been very poor.
Coming off the back of an Ashes series where an attack of right arm medium fast bowlers backed up by an ineffectual finger spinner proved yet again to be an unsuccessful formula, I am not really sure we have learnt anything here.
Parkinson had to play on this tour. If this isn't the surface for two spinners, he should have replaced Leach in the side
Parkinson likes to bowl with a new Dukes ball in April- perhaps he will get a chance then.
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That is village from Crawley. What on Earth?
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Not much better from Root either, this is hilarious.
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slightly different line-up, same old England...
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To be fair, Mayers has been bowling well, but he's not overly quick.
Hopefully it shows that the pitch has something about it to produce a result.
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Last game for Root as captain?
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Awful from Stokes. Jesus.
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Last game for Root as captain?
Can we put this down to captaincy?
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Can we put this down to captaincy?
Was just posing the question!
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Jesus wept
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Was just posing the question!
I can't see anyone feasible as a replacement right now. Half the team are trying to establish their place in the squad and several are just not suited to be skipper.
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I think Root was on trial for this series with Strauss. To see if there was improvement to work with.
The problem we have I think is a change of Captain now may not see an improvement in performances.
Plus I don’t know who else would be any good in the current team.
A loss here might pose a few questions when the team return home.
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I can't see anyone feasible as a replacement right now. Half the team are trying to establish their place in the squad and several are just not suited to be skipper.
And Root is? Really? He injures bowlers. Get Abell in from Somerset. Anyone but Root.
I’m regretting subscribing to this misery lol
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in
And Root is? Really? He injures bowlers. Get Abell in from Somerset. Anyone but Root.
I’m regretting subscribing to this misery lol
Not particularly but it's hardly progress to replace him with someone equally bad who's less sure of their place in the team.
I do have a soft spot for Abell, but it's definitely too radical for the ECB to bring someone in to skipper.
Part of me would love them to give it to Stokes and see how he goes. He did seem a more natural skipper in the Pakistan ODI series.
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Craig Overton is currently our second highest runscorer! Fantastic...
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Jeez you guys are hard on your team. Pretty tough conditions to bat in.
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in
Not particularly but it's hardly progress to replace him with someone equally bad who's less sure of their place in the team.
I do have a soft spot for Abell, but it's definitely too radical for the ECB to bring someone in to skipper.
Part of me would love them to give it to Stokes and see how he goes. He did seem a more natural skipper in the Pakistan ODI series.
I see what you’re saying about bringing someone unproven like that. Perhaps Stokes deserves a chance at least- he is a leader in his own right and would instantly command respect. Will be interested to see what happens. Fingers crossed it gets better!
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Keep going Chris Woakes :).
On the Captaincy I don’t think Stokes should be given the added pressure, there are not many candidates
Two years ago I would of said Anderson, 6 months ago maybe Burns.
Right now I cannot think of one proper alternative. I doubt England would go outside the regular players.
But I think Strauss wants to see progress, that might come in different forms, may not be just winning a series as daft as that may sound. Might be something else
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Whoever stuck a few quid on Mahmood to top score first innings and hit a 6 is probably sitting on a small fortune now 😂
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Oh Saqib!
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I wish the Talk Sport commentator would stop pronouncing Alex Lees' name 'Lease'.
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So how do we feel about this innings?
A) Below par
B) Above par for the conditions
C) Laughable
D)50 more than we deserved
E) Defendable
0
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So how do we feel about this innings?
A) Below par
B) Above par for the conditions
C) Laughable
D)50 more than we deserved
E) Defendable
F) Hilarious, bring back the banter years.
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If the pitch stays spicy, you guys are in the pound seats. West Indies batting is pretty weak and heavily reliant on Brathwaite. If he goes early, they could easily get skittled for under 100.
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I think the new ball is likely to be decisive, if they don’t get 3/4 in the first 30 overs it could be trouble.
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I think the new ball is likely to be decisive, if they don’t get 3/4 in the first 30 overs it could be trouble.
Completely agree with this. Hopefully the pitch hasn't flattened out too much, but Leach and Mahmood made it look like a road towards the end.
If England don't get Brathwaite early, we could be in for a few days of boredom watching him bat!
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Well Woakes will need to reverse his recent record and take a few early wickets if there's a bit of help.
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This is the mild bowling I expected from both of them
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This is the mild bowling I expected from both of them
Woakes sticking to his guns of not being able to bowl outside of England.
I don't see what England see in Overton either, just military medium that might work in England but nowhere else.
Good that they've bought Mahmood on early.
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This is so...awful
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I mean, slightly better now. Here's to a day of balls keeping low
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Mahmood looks every bit a test bowler, that's encouraging at least. Overton works hard but I don't think he's got the accuracy and nibble that Robinson does.
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Very promising, we do need new seamers. I do hope Broad and Anderson still play a part.
Overton seems a bit like Woakes but not as good with the bat, I know Woakes is not great overseas but at least contributes with the bat
Robinson was carrying a spare tyre last picture I saw, lots of ability but needs to shift some weight
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Getting bounced out by Chris Woakes? Scenes
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Awesome! :) I’m not having it Woakes is just a poor mans Overton
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Pitch seems to flatten out in session 3. West Indies has a 28 run lead with JdS still at the crease. Batting last on this pitch could be very difficult
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Another poor umpiring decision, with more pain from Root throwing the reviews away
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This is so, so abject
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Will the penny ever drop with Crawley and these loose shots
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Jesus, what an embarrassment
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Jesus, what an embarrassment
whether you guys like it or not.. White ball has infected players and this bunch (root apart) are quite simply not good enough. Not a single one of them. They get defended left right and centre but they really just aren't very good. When will people finally admit that England are both really poor (and a few runs on roads/pancakes only hides it from idiots) and have no chance of getting better whilst the system is fully geared up from the lowest level to the top for white ball
WI are shockingly bad so to lose the series against them is.. .well.... truly awful .. Strauss is a massive part of the decline and I notice Harrison and co are STILL IN A JOB and taking in their bonuses
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Another soft one from Bairstow. Hook, line, sinker
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Sorry but England aren’t good enough to play a specialist keeper whom is pretty mediocre with the bat. Foakes, for all the hype, didn’t keep like this legendary glove man he’s proclaimed as in this series.
His batting is no more than a number 8 at Test level.
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Foakes is still an substantial upgrade on Buttler. Think he might have a decent home summer
As for the team though, an absolute sack of (No Swearing Please). Think that'll be it for Root as captain
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Foakes is still an substantial upgrade on Buttler. Think he might have a decent home summer
As for the team though, an absolute sack of (No Swearing Please). Think that'll be it for Root as captain
yeah, Root's the problem.. That'll solve it.
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Always dislike changing what works to solve another issue. Now you don't know if the other issue is solved or not but you could potentially spoil what works so ending up with two issues. This is what Root has done moving up to bat at no 3. Eng should focus on finding a proper no 3 and let Root do what he does best at no 4.
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What's your guys thoughts on Lees debut series?
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I read an article that with the lack of potential captains that Billings was a possible option, Think Foakes has done ok but would have liked some More runs on pretty flat decks
Massive fan of Crawley but he is certainly loose early on and this selection policy is just mental I’m afraid
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I’m not sure Root will survive a series loss here but you got to ask if changing the Captain, the openers,the spinner etc will have any effect on improving the team. I don’t think it will.
We have tried so many players in the last 3 years it’s nearly back in the 80’s merry go round.
We might as well stick with Root and Crawley Lees Lawrence Foakes and the bowlers and hope they get better.
Leaving out Anderson and Broad was a mistake, at least one should of toured but it’s the batting again.
We cannot get away from it, we crumble when the pressure is on.
Malan into the squad is the only thing I can think of to shore it up a bit
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By the time the first test vs New Zealand rolls around, there will have been about 3 county championship games already played.
The selection policy should be simple, pick whoever is in the best form at that point. Almost every spot is up for grabs, I can't see how this idea would fare any worse.
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Interesting article on Roots captaincy, lays into him quite alot, but fairly I think.
Gives options of Stokes, Broad and left field choice of Morgan (the Brearley type appointment).
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2022/mar/26/englands-big-reset-is-undermined-by-joe-root-the-third-class-captain (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2022/mar/26/englands-big-reset-is-undermined-by-joe-root-the-third-class-captain)
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Interesting article on Roots captaincy, lays into him quite alot, but fairly I think.
Gives options of Stokes, Broad and left field choice of Morgan (the Brearley type appointment).
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2022/mar/26/englands-big-reset-is-undermined-by-joe-root-the-third-class-captain (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2022/mar/26/englands-big-reset-is-undermined-by-joe-root-the-third-class-captain)
Jeez, doesn't hold back here! Don't disagree that Root isn't the best skipper but think it's a little ott. Bringing back a 35 year old Morgan just to captain isn't the answer. It just highlights the lack of options.
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I’m not sure Root will survive a series loss here but you got to ask if changing the Captain, the openers,the spinner etc will have any effect on improving the team. I don’t think it will.
We have tried so many players in the last 3 years it’s nearly back in the 80’s merry go round.
We might as well stick with Root and Crawley Lees Lawrence Foakes and the bowlers and hope they get better.
Leaving out Anderson and Broad was a mistake, at least one should of toured but it’s the batting again.
We cannot get away from it, we crumble when the pressure is on.
Malan into the squad is the only thing I can think of to shore it up a bit
Totally agree - the batting has been really exposed. Just watched the highlights. Some of the shots were very very village.
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This is just so poor. If Leach & Mahmood didn't push the score on by nearly 100 then the totals are just completely embarrassing. Lees the only other player to do a decent job, especially considering everybody else was so bad.
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I must not look at the ICC Test rankings; must not look at the test rankings.
The doom and gloom on here is even more depressing than the cricket itself- and I’ve been part of it.
Firstly Well done the Windies- congrats to them.
Is Gary Kirsten still available? Who could it be other than Root or Stokes?
Are there any other skippers well thought of on the county scene?
Surely even Mike Brearley didn’t make his debut as captain though?
Positives:
1.I do still like Crawley despite him being a very hit and miss. I think he can only improve. I do have a soft spot for him because of John Crawley even though they aren’t related!
2. Mahmood wasn’t overbowled.
3. Foakes is still a good gloveman
4. Stokes scored a ton.
5. Mahmood.
6. Parkinson didn’t do badly as a drinks waiter.
7. English summer tests won’t have Vaughan on commentary.
8 Bairstow is back.
9. Great for the future of West Indian cricket
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What's your guys thoughts on Lees debut series?
A bit Jeet Raval?
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that was a tough last few days to watch, the first 2 tests the windies showed us how to grind and fight for your team but we learnt nothing. The pitch was a tough one with a new ball but surely thats why the openers are where they are, Mayers bowled well but he didnt do anything special and we gifted him wickets.
leaving Broad and Anderson at home was such a poor move, i know they needed to see the next batch of bowlers in action but not all at once. Robinson is a good test bowler but his fitness is going to cost him a lot of cricket if he cant sort it out, and overton isnt close to our first choice team. at least Woakes bowled slightly better in the 3rd test.
At least Root didnt bowl Mahmood into the ground like he to Archer, but im not sure why he didnt get the new ball? looked a lot more dangerous than the others
i wouldnt be shocked if Sibley and Burns walked out to open in the next series, Crawley is way too loose outside off stump and i dont see Lees having any scoring areas as such. occupying the crease is a good start but there was no upping of gears when he was in and i didnt think he looked to rotate the strike at all which would have worked the bowlers a bit harder against a left/right combo.
rant nearly over, what was the point in taking Parkinson & Pope if they were never going to get a game? if i were either of them id be thinking franchise T20 leagues are where im off too, just being used by the ECB to carry drinks
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I still don't think England know what their best side looks like; as you say, it was daft to take Parkinson if they were afraid to actually play the lad, and I thought Fisher did enough in his debut Test to deserve a second game ahead of Overton, who is nowhere near Test class.
How many of our best XI do we really know?
Root. But at four rather than three ideally, and preferably not as skipper.
Stokes.
Bairstow. But already there are people talking about giving him the gloves back to get an extra batsman in to the side.
Archer, if fit. IF.
Thereafter, its tough. Our bowling stocks look good on paper with Wood, Stone, Robinson, Mahmood, Fisher, Anderson and Broad on top of Archer and Stokes...but thats a sicknote heavy list. Woakes and Curran if we are desperate.
The batting...eek. Lawrence did well enough at times, but I wonder how he fits in if Crawley moves down to three, which I suspect he will.
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rant nearly over, what was the point in taking Parkinson & Pope if they were never going to get a game? if i were either of them id be thinking franchise T20 leagues are where im off too, just being used by the ECB to carry drinks
What are they supposed to do, not take any reserve players?
I think a major problem has been for ages that Root (and his various coaches) doesn't have a clue how he wants the side to play. How do you know your best side when there's so little direction?
Root 4, Stokes should go back to his obvious spot at 6. Rest of the top order's a bit up for grabs, Foakes didn't have a great series either. Suspect it's been a good few weeks for Dom Sibley!
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absolutely agree that reserve players are needed, my concern is that we repeatedly take a guy on tour that little or no chance of playing. what damage is that doing to him and also to Pope? personally i would have gone with Pope over Lawrence but that wouldn't change the fact root should be at 4 and we are missing a test quality opener.
if i were picking a side for the next next against NZ
1. Burns
2. Sibley.
3. Crawley
4. Root
5. Pope
6. Stokes
7. Foakes
8. Robinson or Mahmood
9. Wood
10. Broad
11. Anderson
wouldnt bother with Leach as Root is just as effective and would open up another seamer spot to take the weight off Stokes Shoulders. Dont see a better option as a top 3, but hardly much to choose from.
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I’ve said a few times Sibley should not be binned but are we really saying after 3 tests him and Burns come back?
I know we are in a poor position selection wise but that makes no sense
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Vince batting at 4 for Hampshire in university match. Good early season get him back in- glorious cover drive!
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Interested to get this thought out in the open...
Vince comes in at 3 and to be the new skipper and Root 4 as just a batsman...
I genuinely think the lad comes into the England team so desperate to keep his place that he just gets in his own head.
No doubt Vince is a great skipper and is more than capable of scoring big runs.
Maybe making him skipper frees his mental shackles and gives him the security he possibly needs?
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Interested to get this thought out in the open...
Vince comes in at 3 and to be the new skipper and Root 4 as just a batsman...
I genuinely think the lad comes into the England team so desperate to keep his place that he just gets in his own head.
No doubt Vince is a great skipper and is more than capable of scoring big runs.
Maybe making him skipper frees his mental shackles and gives him the security he possibly needs?
I quite like this idea
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Interested to get this thought out in the open...
Vince comes in at 3 and to be the new skipper and Root 4 as just a batsman...
I genuinely think the lad comes into the England team so desperate to keep his place that he just gets in his own head.
No doubt Vince is a great skipper and is more than capable of scoring big runs.
Maybe making him skipper frees his mental shackles and gives him the security he possibly needs?
A rejuvenated Sibley + Lees opening up, Vince, Root, Bairstow, Stokes. On paper it does sound good...
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I'd sooner stick with Crawley than Vince, at least Crawley gets a few on the odd occasion he does get in!
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Looking forward to seeing a 20 odd of glorious cover drives before Vince nicks off to second slip
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Some very serious straw-clutching going on!
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Another good article about England thinking they are entitled to winning cricket matches and the West Indies not getting enough credit
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2022/mar/29/west-indies-deserve-better-than-supporting-role-in-england-melodrama (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2022/mar/29/west-indies-deserve-better-than-supporting-role-in-england-melodrama)
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Another good article about England thinking they are entitled to winning cricket matches and the West Indies not getting enough credit
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2022/mar/29/west-indies-deserve-better-than-supporting-role-in-england-melodrama (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2022/mar/29/west-indies-deserve-better-than-supporting-role-in-england-melodrama)
Thats a really good article. Not enough credit was given to how the West Indian team performed throughout the series. Fair play - I grew up watching the great West Indian side of the 80's and remember the atmosphere of calyspo cricket etc - would be great if that can return for them. The noise and energy at the West Indian grounds with West Indian fans was special
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I see Michael Vaughan is back.
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i would def bring Sibley back as it was such a poor call to drop him in the first place, Burns record as an opener isnt bad compared to other test openers at the moment but i would like to see him scoring some runs for surrey first. When he is out of form his technique makes him look terrible.
Lees has proved he can bat but i dont see him as a first choice opener with his limited scoring range.
I feel for Root, hes not a great tactical leader but there really is no other option at the moment. only 4 players are really guaranteed a place and they left 2 of them at home.
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i would def bring Sibley back as it was such a poor call to drop him in the first place, Burns record as an opener isnt bad compared to other test openers at the moment but i would like to see him scoring some runs for surrey first. When he is out of form his technique makes him look terrible.
Lees has proved he can bat but i dont see him as a first choice opener with his limited scoring range.
I feel for Root, hes not a great tactical leader but there really is no other option at the moment. only 4 players are really guaranteed a place and they left 2 of them at home.
Could be. I’d had Crawley in because the potential is there to improve, he has got a full range of attacking shots. Perhaps a bit loose for opening but maybe not 3 or 4.
I’d have Sibley in the squad, needs to improve yes but he’s already shown he can but shifting a lot of weight and getting fitter.
I think we are now bottom or close to bottom of the Test rankings, it is bad but there are some positives.
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I see Michael Vaughan is back.
Did you miss him?
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i would def bring Sibley back as it was such a poor call to drop him in the first place, Burns record as an opener isnt bad compared to other test openers at the moment but i would like to see him scoring some runs for surrey first. When he is out of form his technique makes him look terrible.
Lees has proved he can bat but i dont see him as a first choice opener with his limited scoring range.
I feel for Root, hes not a great tactical leader but there really is no other option at the moment. only 4 players are really guaranteed a place and they left 2 of them at home.
You say drop Lees because of his limited scoring range and in the same breath want Sibley back who cant score anywhere.
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You say drop Lees because of his limited scoring range and in the same breath want Sibley back who cant score anywhere.
Not sure I buy that Lees scoring areas are limited, he just looked like he'd set out with a clear plan to bat long and minimise risk.
Sibley, to be fair, looked like he's done a lot of work to find more fluency from the clips of the pre season warmups.
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cant understand the hype about Sibley...the guy averages 38 in first class and 28 in Tests....but then on the other hand we have Lees who is worse and averages 34 in first class...a quick glance at some of the figures and there is no one averaging even 40 (forget 50) in first class cricket as an opener.
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cant understand the hype about Sibley...the guy averages 38 in first class and 28 in Tests....but then on the other hand we have Lees who is worse and averages 34 in first class...a quick glance at some of the figures and there is no one averaging even 40 (forget 50) in first class cricket as an opener.
The season he had before his England call up was pretty spectacular and he's shown a willingness to do the hard yards. If he can expand his game slightly without losing the solidity and ability to bat long then he would be exactly what England need.
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A stand out average would be Pope but he is on a good track for home games.
It’s no guarantee either as we have seen in the past so how to pick becomes harder for the selectors.
I’ve said before Sibley should not be dumped, Crawley has an all round game but is maybe not an opener, Lawrence has done ok.
It’s not all bad. Now that Lees has been picked I cannot see why he would be dropped.
Personally I see nothing wrong with playing 3 openers as we did in the past, in the current side Crawley would bat 3 in that scenario.
Root 4 and Bairstow and Lawrence, Foakes in the keepers spot.
There would be Pope still in the squad.
On figures alone I think it’s Burns that averages the highest of the group tried already
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cant understand the hype about Sibley...the guy averages 38 in first class and 28 in Tests....but then on the other hand we have Lees who is worse and averages 34 in first class...a quick glance at some of the figures and there is no one averaging even 40 (forget 50) in first class cricket as an opener.
Can you expect many openers in FC to avg 40 + tho really? Most games played when the balls hooping around and doing absolute bits off the seam too. Its a tough job. Expectations around averages for openers in the UK probably need revising maybe?
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Can you expect many openers in FC to avg 40 + tho really? Most games played when the balls hooping around and doing absolute bits off the seam too. Its a tough job. Expectations around averages for openers in the UK probably need revising maybe?
No, the schedule needs revising. You can't learn to be accomplished at a job without doing that job.
It says something about where we're at that Lees is considered to be 'doing alright' after averaging 20, with a top score of 31, in 6 knocks. We have absolutely no reason to believe he is or will be better than Burns or Sibley or any of the others.
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I agree. This was my point. The way things are a FC avg of 40+ isn't gonna be the norm, due to when matches are played and conditions they're played in. So if the schedule doesn't change, the expectation of avgs should.
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You should be able to compare the England players against overseas openers who play county cricket and see if its just an English problem or a County cricket problem.
Any standout Overseas openers/top order batsman carving up in the last couple of years?
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Somewhere in Crawley, Sibley, Pope, Crawley, Vince, and Burns has to be the answer to our woes, otherwise we are utterly beyond help. :(
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A stand out average would be Pope but he is on a good track for home games.
It’s no guarantee either as we have seen in the past so how to pick becomes harder for the selectors.
I’ve said before Sibley should not be dumped, Crawley has an all round game but is maybe not an opener, Lawrence has done ok.
It’s not all bad. Now that Lees has been picked I cannot see why he would be dropped.
Personally I see nothing wrong with playing 3 openers as we did in the past, in the current side Crawley would bat 3 in that scenario.
Root 4 and Bairstow and Lawrence, Foakes in the keepers spot.
There would be Pope still in the squad.
On figures alone I think it’s Burns that averages the highest of the group tried already
Leaving out Stokes?
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You should be able to compare the England players against overseas openers who play county cricket and see if its just an English problem or a County cricket problem.
Any standout Overseas openers/top order batsman carving up in the last couple of years?
This is suspiciously sensible... without going into too much depth, here's all the international top 3 bats in the CC last year. Some small sample sizes of course.
K Brathwaite - 26.8
W Young - 39.7
A Cook - 32.1
M Harris - 54.5
D Conway - 40.3
P Malan - 37.6
H Rutherford - 37.14
M Labuschagne - 32.7
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Somewhere in Crawley, Sibley, Pope, Crawley, Vince, and Burns has to be the answer to our woes, otherwise we are utterly beyond help. :(
Burns has been lucky enough to play the amount of tests he already has. He gets out for 0 loads. Burns isn’t even part of the convo
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This is suspiciously sensible... without going into too much depth, here's all the international top 3 bats in the CC last year. Some small sample sizes of course.
K Brathwaite - 26.8
W Young - 39.7
A Cook - 32.1
M Harris - 54.5
D Conway - 40.3
P Malan - 37.6
H Rutherford - 37.14
M Labuschagne - 32.7
Was this before or after Labushagne cracked it?
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Was this before or after Labushagne cracked it?
After, that's all 2021 season stats. 6 games, 9 digs, 228 runs, 2 fifties, 0 tons, got done by Anderson/Stevens 4 or 5 times I think.
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To be fair, conditions in the first half of last season were utterly ghastly for batsmen.
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I'm not suggesting it gives all the answers, but an interesting statistic was that the Aussie Ashes side combined played more English county cricket in the 2021 season than the England one did.
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To be fair, conditions in the first half of last season were utterly ghastly for batsmen.
I'm not sure they were. I seem to remember a lot of runs were scored.
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https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/mar/30/alec-stewart-county-cricket-england-high-class-test-players (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/mar/30/alec-stewart-county-cricket-england-high-class-test-players)
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Can you expect many openers in FC to avg 40 + tho really? Most games played when the balls hooping around and doing absolute bits off the seam too. Its a tough job. Expectations around averages for openers in the UK probably need revising maybe?
agreed but then they should be able to translate their basic batting skills to hundreds on batting friendly tracks...some of the ones in Ashes and in WI were made for batting...basic skill is a major issue
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https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/mar/30/alec-stewart-county-cricket-england-high-class-test-players (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/mar/30/alec-stewart-county-cricket-england-high-class-test-players)
didnt know Stewart had that good a sense of humour
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didnt know Stewart had that good a sense of humour
"Stewart blamed a congested Test calendar as well as the proliferation of T20 franchise leagues around the world for the decline. With Kolpak contracts having come to an end last year, restricting the influx of South African and Caribbean players with Test experience, the standard of the Championship will need to be raised by locally produced talent, he added."
Add central contracts, and too much domestic T20, and that other nonsense.
How could county cricket possibly be expected to deliver more?
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Stewart is just pushing his players, and maybe thinks England should still be playing Burns and Pope. The latter has got lots of talent but has had chances and his place is at the moment with someone else.
The best thing Stewart could do for Pope is bat him 3 all season unless there is another England candidate to do it.
In other words any overseas players get told they move down.
Our middle order is too crowded. There’s Josh Bohannon and whispers of a James Vince recall being banded about.
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Advice for Alec Stewart there.
('Any overseas player' = Hashim Amla.)
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https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/james-anderson-on-england-dropping-ive-stopped-trying-to-make-sense-of-it-1310438 (https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/james-anderson-on-england-dropping-ive-stopped-trying-to-make-sense-of-it-1310438)
Hmmm, not the greatest of reading from the perspective of ECB management.
Mond you, makes you wonder if there's any mileage in reports that the two of them are difficult to mamage.
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There’s clearly an issue as a few of us have picked up on. Root is quoted as saying there was an improvement in attitude on the Caribbean tour.
Well that’s good but we still lost the series and it’s a dismal run we are on.
If Anderson and broad are in the best 5 bowlers come next month they have to play.
Anderson has not shown any sign of deterioration in the last 12 months.
Maybe he gives the batsmen what for in the dressing room….maybe his has been the voice saying we don’t have enough runs…
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Are we really bottom of the test rankings?