Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Forum News and Suggestions => Old Advertisers => Admin Board => It's Just Cricket => Topic started by: ItsJustCricket on October 23, 2015, 12:31:42 PM
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Hello all,
Today I got the chance to see the new M&H range for 2016. Tim had driven up from Taunton to show me, and then later today Lord's shops, and since they weren't at the Trade Show the other week, we are officially the first people to have seen the new range - and very impressed we are! Some notes on the new range (and some photos) below!
1. There are two new bats for this year - the MH16 and NC654. They are both exactly the same shape, just different decals, similar to how the International and CK22 were this year. Now comes my favourite part! Average edge size is 50-55mm on these bats and weights start at 2.9! Otherwise the shapes are similar to the CK22 with a fair amount of concaving, massive toe, mid-high middle etc. The MH16 is available in two price points, whilst the NC 654 is available in just one. In another very nice touch, the top bats come with a free end of season bat service from M&H which includes sanding, clean up, re-stickering etc.
2. Otherwise M&H have kept the bats the same, just dropped the International. They have also added a medium wheelie bag, which has a suitcase handle! Fans of our YouTube channel will know how much we love a suitcase handle! It is CK22 branded, but called the Type4 Wheelie bag and at £60 RRP looks to be great value for money!
3. The MH16 and NC 654 gloves are a clever hybrid design, between splits and sausage, as you can see. The NC pads are a bit more traditional than the MH16, with the sharper, pointed, cane, otherwise the new pads are similar and have all the features of a quality top end pad with embossed branding too, which I love. Just further proof of the attention to detail shown by M&H!
We will be handpicking in early December so get your pre-orders in now! The two new bats are absolute freaks, and they will be incredibly popular!
Personally I really like the new decals, and think they will be very popular - the teal and pink is very subtle and classy, whilst the electric yellow is a bit more for the in your face player! Everyone is catered for, a very good range overall I think!
Paul
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NC? is this a range for nick compton?
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Im guessing Gray Nics have let Compton go then....slight giveaway by him having the pic of the M&H as his Instagram profile pic a week ago!
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ah i hadnt seen that..
like the look of the gloves though! similar to my GN predator gloves, half split half sausage is really comfy love the mix
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Are they still keeping the plain softs?
Even I wouldn't call Pink subtle and classy!!
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Are they still keeping the plain softs?
Even I wouldn't call Pink subtle and classy!!
I can see what you mean - normally I wouldn't - but compared to the blue and yellow I think it is!
Yes, other softs are staying the same. Just dropping the International range.
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can we see full profile of that massive bat plz
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can we see full profile of that massive bat plz
I took some photos of the profiles, but don't want to reveal them in public yet - M&H want to launch it properly themselves next week, with the help of their new mystery sponsored player! :)
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What are the two price points for MH-16 and what is the difference between the two bats?
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I took some photos of the profiles, but don't want to reveal them in public yet - M&H want to launch it properly themselves next week, with the help of their new mystery sponsored player! :)
"Mystery" (imagine Dr Evil air quotes) :D
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What are the two price points for MH-16 and what is the difference between the two bats?
We haven't set our prices yet, but all I can say now is that the top one will be higher than the CK22... This is the one that comes with the free bat service. The MkII doesn't.
As far as I could tell, the MkII is regular grade 1, the top one is grade 1+, otherwise the same.
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Possibly not a popular opinion but I think this a prime example of a brand completely losing its way. Their softs have been on a steady decline the last couple of years in terms of looks and I'm yet to see an M & H bat that really impresses me, anyone else find they are always ridiculously soft and underpressed? Not sure this is the best direction they could take, give me the retro/jazz cricketer stuff (leather bags/straps/cuffs) that I always think of when someone says M & H every single time over this pseudo modern puma-ish styling. But then they have got a business to run and if thats not popular right now I guess they have to go chasing a bigger, less niche market.
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As far as I could tell, the MkII is regular grade 1, the top one is grade 1+, otherwise the same.
Sorry I'm calling this for what it is, a load of marketing bs. MK2 is a grade 2 bat and the MK1 is a grade 1 bat. No such thing as G1++++ A* Super Super Dooper Pro Select willow. It's just an excuse to bump up the price for what was a £200 bat a few years ago. Not having a pop at IJC but whoever is making up this stuff should be taken into a field and smacked round the head with their stupid G1+ bat until they see sense.
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Sorry I'm calling this for what it is, a load of marketing bs. MK2 is a grade 2 bat and the MK1 is a grade 1 bat. No such thing as G1++++ A* Super Super Dooper Pro Select willow. It's just an excuse to bump up the price for what was a £200 bat a few years ago. Not having a pop at IJC but whoever is making up this stuff should be taken into a field and smacked round the head with their stupid G1+ bat until they see sense.
I will have to take the hit on this one then as the answer I gave was my opinion only, having seen the samples. They didn't specifically tell me it was a grade 1 bat but it looked like one to me.
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We haven't set our prices yet, but all I can say now is that the top one will be higher than the CK22... This is the one that comes with the free bat service. The MkII doesn't.
As far as I could tell, the MkII is regular grade 1, the top one is grade 1+, otherwise the same.
So what will be the top of the range then Paul will it be the new nc654
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Sorry I'm calling this for what it is, a load of marketing bs. MK2 is a grade 2 bat and the MK1 is a grade 1 bat. No such thing as G1++++ A* Super Super Dooper Pro Select willow. It's just an excuse to bump up the price for what was a £200 bat a few years ago. Not having a pop at IJC but whoever is making up this stuff should be taken into a field and smacked round the head with their stupid G1+ bat until they see sense.
THANK. YOU.
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So what will be the top of the range then Paul will it be the new nc654
Yes, but the top MH16 bat is the same price, so technically they are both at the top.
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I will have to take the hit on this one then as the answer I gave was my opinion only, having seen the samples. They didn't specifically tell me it was a grade 1 bat but it looked like one to me.
I don't think it was you, I suspect m&h like to portray this image.
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Sorry I'm calling this for what it is, a load of marketing bs. MK2 is a grade 2 bat and the MK1 is a grade 1 bat. No such thing as G1++++ A* Super Super Dooper Pro Select willow. It's just an excuse to bump up the price for what was a £200 bat a few years ago. Not having a pop at IJC but whoever is making up this stuff should be taken into a field and smacked round the head with their stupid G1+ bat until they see sense.
Well said.it's BS.the sad thing is regular club cricketers fall for it.
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Possibly not a popular opinion but I think this a prime example of a brand completely losing its way. Their softs have been on a steady decline the last couple of years in terms of looks and I'm yet to see an M & H bat that really impresses me, anyone else find they are always ridiculously soft and underpressed? Not sure this is the best direction they could take, give me the retro/jazz cricketer stuff (leather bags/straps/cuffs) that I always think of when someone says M & H every single time over this pseudo modern puma-ish styling. But then they have got a business to run and if thats not popular right now I guess they have to go chasing a bigger, less niche market.
Have you used one? My Amplus MK-1 is a trampoline and worth every penny I paid for it.
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Well said.it's BS.the sad thing is regular club cricketers fall for it.
out of interest, who would you consider to be a "regular club cricketer"? What does that mean exactly? Someone playing at a lower standard?
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I'd class it as anyone playing club cricket (IE not professional) that isn't on here, we all know we're cricket badgers on CBF but 99% of club players wouldn't have the faintest clue between marketing BS and reality.
OK, what word would you use instead of "regular" to describe a CBF club player that plays at the same standard as one of these "regular club cricketers"?
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Yes the vast majority of clubbies in this country for whom this marketing if simply marketing-it means nothing.
Terms like grade one plus,finate,etc etc is all sales devised to make you think what you are buying it better than the grade below.in reality it is not and makes no difference to your game.
I accept its a modern part of the cricket business and a modern fact of life thou.
I just hope people eventually can see thru it.
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Just a question Paul are the bats very heavily concaved or over dried as to get a edge size of 55mm on a 2.9 is crazy
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I'd class this as anyone playing club cricket (non-professional) who isn't a regular on CBF! We all know we're cricket badgers on here but 99% of club players don't know the difference between marketing BS and reality.
My favourite example of all being below;
https://twitter.com/SelectCricket/status/598465068926431233
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Yes the vast majority of clubbies in this country for whom this marketing if simply marketing-it means nothing.
Terms like grade one plus,finate,etc etc is all sales devised to make you think what you are buying it better than the grade below.in reality it is not and makes no difference to your game.
I accept its a modern part of the cricket business and a modern fact of life thou.
I just hope people eventually can see thru it.
See, this is where we would have to disagree. We visit lots of manufacturers lots of time in the year, so we feel we are fairly qualified to comment. The top end bats we pick, we pick because they absolutely perform better than the ones below them. The name and the grade they are published are is irrelevant.
To dismiss all of these top grades as no better than the ones below is a bit of a sweeping statement without full knowledge?
Chris
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Just a question Paul are the bats very heavily concaved or over dried as to get a edge size of 55mm on a 2.9 is crazy
heavily concaved. In reality, most will end up being 2.10+ but we will do our very best to find the lighter ones when we visit!
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heavily concaved. In reality, most will end up being 2.10+ but we will do our very best to find the lighter ones when we visit!
I guess they're Kippax-esk in that they're lacking in the spine height?
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I guess they're Kippax-esk in that they're lacking in the spine height?
the edges are more impressive than the spines, but the ones I saw were all around the 70mm mark, so still pretty high!
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Is that what it takes to sell a bat?
Stupid size edge, pictures?
I just couldn't sleep at night, charging what they do for a claimed? Superior grade of willow, that's either been over dried or the performance con caved out of it.
colour schemes do nothing for me either
Someone walked out to bat wearing that stuff with a 55mmedged bat would cue some big time sledging /ribbing!
And you get a free refurb! That's nice of them
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Is that what it takes to sell a bat?
Stupid size edge, pictures?
I just couldn't sleep at night, charging what they do for a claimed? Superior grade of willow, that's either been over dried or the performance con caved out of it.
colour schemes do nothing for me either
Someone walked out to bat wearing that stuff with a 55mmedged bat would cue some big time sledging /ribbing!
And you get a free refurb! That's nice of them
I can see where you're coming from and I don't necessarily disagree, but surely, even if it is heavily concaved, if you are getting 55mm edges, you are getting more wood off centre than a full 40mm edged bat? And who doesn't want a full 40mm edged bat, or am I missing something?
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i see a lot of M&H being in Taunton. Never seen a bad one but..... Overpriced and poorly finished (at least recent ones have been). They have very thin handles too.
I have vowed never to own one. That is probably a silly thing to say, but I think there is better value elsewhere. Hate the branding too.
The final nail in the coffin was trying to charge me 15 quid for a toe guard. I said I would fit it myself... They still wanted 15 quid.
Sorry to all you M&H fans. Just my personal opinion.
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Concave for pick up and balance
Not to create stupid edges
It's like the Warner bat, nice if your given ten at a time because they've been dried to within an inch of their life
But you don't replicate it by concaving the life out of a normal cleft of willow, or duck billing or whatever.
My main issue with M&H is their prices, but fair play if they get away with it
I'm sure half of Somersets teenagers are writing their xmas lists out now with one at the top
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Have you used one? My Amplus MK-1 is a trampoline and worth every penny I paid for it.
Yeah I have, back in 2008 they were offering leather bag, pads and gloves plus the bat of your choice for something like £350? Which I took them up on, I went for the Solution model. By today's prices that is an absolutely steal! But was rather a lot of money to me at the time being a student. So understandably I was very excited when this gorgeous, grainy very classy looking bat arrived. Sadly it was a complete dud and after a long time waiting for it to come to life (it never did) I had to go out and spend more money on a new bat because M & H didn't want to know about it when I approached them about being unhappy with my bat. Softs and bag were great though! Looked great with my uni whites and baggy green 😬.
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^ I am sorry to hear that. My Amplus was knocked and truly ready to play when I got it. It went from ball one. It has gotten better since. It is a bat for big hits. Having said that you are well within your rights to NEVER buy an M&H bat again. I have gotten burnt by some brands and regardless of how good they are, I say, never again!
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Yeah M&H cost silly money, but I'm sure they wouldn't be charging those prices if people weren't paying them! They'll always keep their following due to producing absolute guns (I've never seen one that wasn't), a decent proportion of Somerset won't buy anything else. Not like they're the only brand asking daft money either, and I'd far rather have an M&H than a top grade Kook for example.
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a guy at our club has family near their factory and picks up a new stick whenever he goes to finish - his ones are very dense, don't have massive edges, go like the absolute clappers, have very classy minimalist branding ( literally just an M and an H) and are absolute gun bats
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^ I am sorry to hear that. My Amplus was knocked and truly ready to play when I got it. It went from ball one. It has gotten better since. It is a bat for big hits.
I can't tell you how gutted I was, it looked so good you just expected it to play like a monster. Still the Redback I got afterwards was a proper cannon and more than made up for it! I've visited the workshop in Taunton once or twice and picked up all the bats in there and there honestly wasn't even one that tempted me which I found shocking. Normally in place like that there's a few knocking around that get the cricket badgers salivating. Agree about the finishing being poor nowadays, it never used to be that bad even though it had a pleasingly rustic, hand made feel about it.
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What a shame, they used to have wonderful classic branding with lovely British racing greens, maroons, blacks and lots of white. Now it looks like they're trying to compete for the Puma/New Balance/Adidas market, albeit with a much smaller budget.
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And you get a free refurb! That's nice of them
Except the bats cost more than this year to accommodate the refurb :-[
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What a shame, they used to have wonderful classic branding with lovely British racing greens, maroons, blacks and lots of white. Now it looks like they're trying to compete for the Puma/New Balance/Adidas market, albeit with a much smaller budget.
Interesting feedback. We've found that most customers much prefer the newer look M&H bats, especially the younger customers (who they are targeting most). I think it makes perfect business sense and like the look of the new stickers. My only (slight) negative is the lack of embossing, but I seem to care more than most about that!
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Is it just me that loves the torquise and pink softs!!!
Need more pics paul.
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Interesting feedback. We've found that most customers much prefer the newer look M&H bats, especially the younger customers (who they are targeting most). I think it makes perfect business sense and like the look of the new stickers. My only (slight) negative is the lack of embossing, but I seem to care more than most about that!
I'm speaking from a personal perspective, but I loved the variety the market offered. Salix, M&H and Newbery were quintessentially premium English brands, producing quality products. They were be the Jaguar or Rolls Royce of cricket brands, with luxury leather seats, chrome touches and wood interior. Perhaps they could be deemed as stuffy, and not cool enough for the kids but I loved the style and their respective brands.
On their bats in particular the coloured branding feels a little half arsed, there's no finishing touches. It's a bunch of flat colours on a bat, they must be the cheapest stickers to produce for any brand. No chrome touchers, no embossing, no spot varnishing. And yet, they still expect the buyers to pay prices similar to the premium brands?
The move might be better financially, and they may sell more. It sounds like I'm wrong, but I do miss some of the classic colours and English feel this brand gave off. You have the name of the best batmaker ever on your bats, and I'd love for them to give their bats the premium branding to match.
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Having owned a couple of M&Hs and been down to the factory in Taunton the quality of service is on the decline. My first Millichamp was the Solution with the lovely low middle, and then I had the monster of a Distinction. However nowadays they have become to focuses on money making rather than service. In my opinion this started when the first launched the CK22 range.
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I'm speaking from a personal perspective, but I loved the variety the market offered. Salix, M&H and Newbery were quintessentially premium English brands, producing quality products. They were be the Jaguar or Rolls Royce of cricket brands, with luxury leather seats, chrome touches and wood interior. Perhaps they could be deemed as stuffy, and not cool enough for the kids but I loved the style and their respective brands.
On their bats in particular the coloured branding feels a little half arsed, there's no finishing touches. It's a bunch of flat colours on a bat, they must be the cheapest stickers to produce for any brand. No chrome touchers, no embossing, no spot varnishing. And yet, they still expect the buyers to pay prices similar to the premium brands?
The move might be better financially, and they may sell more. It sounds like I'm wrong, but I do miss some of the classic colours and English feel this brand gave off. You have the name of the best batmaker ever on your bats, and I'd love for them to give their bats the premium branding to match.
I couldn't agree more with this. This is the association I have with m& h too, it would be a shame for them to just abandon that heritage rather than try and refine it into something current. Class is timeless, you won't see tuxedo's going out of fashion anytime soon! They just get tweaked to adjust with the current style.
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I'm speaking from a personal perspective, but I loved the variety the market offered. Salix, M&H and Newbery were quintessentially premium English brands, producing quality products. They were be the Jaguar or Rolls Royce of cricket brands, with luxury leather seats, chrome touches and wood interior. Perhaps they could be deemed as stuffy, and not cool enough for the kids but I loved the style and their respective brands.
On their bats in particular the coloured branding feels a little half arsed, there's no finishing touches. It's a bunch of flat colours on a bat, they must be the cheapest stickers to produce for any brand. No chrome touchers, no embossing, no spot varnishing. And yet, they still expect the buyers to pay prices similar to the premium brands?
The move might be better financially, and they may sell more. It sounds like I'm wrong, but I do miss some of the classic colours and English feel this brand gave off. You have the name of the best batmaker ever on your bats, and I'd love for them to give their bats the premium branding to match.
Agreed, completely went off M&H when they went to this new look. They've lost their brand identity for me.
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I love the colour scheme of the pink and blue softs. can't imagine i would ever buy anything from them just because of the value for money.
i know quite a few people that own lots of their kit. im only 25 miles away so they are quite popular in my area. some people do love them, also the fact that they can go to the factory and pick it up.
as much as i love the bright colour schemes. i do agree with the comments about m&h being a premium brand and if i didn't kow better i wouldnt think this was m&h
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M&H are not the only brand to jazz up a "classy/traditional/stylish/luxury" range - look at Newbery. I can understand why some don't like it, but like it or not, the market is heading this way, and the cricket market evolves more quickly than the tuxedo market in my opinion. You only need to look at the changes in bat sizes and shapes and T20 cricket in general to understand that.
I am not saying M&H branding is my favourite, but I like it, and understand completely why they are doing it. Their prices aren't affordable for all - and they may not be as good at finishing as some - but they are always different from the others in some way and will always stand out from the crowd. For example, I know of no other brand that is attempting 50-55mm edges on a standard SH bat (for all formats - not just a T20 gimmick bat), so they have cornered the market for that!
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Kippax ?
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Kippax ?
A brand that is available to retail, I mean!
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Are these bats made by m&h ?
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A brand that is available to retail, I mean!
Gray nics?
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Are these bats made by m&h ?
have to assume so, but I am sure I will find out for sure when I visit!
I do know they have hired up a new trainee bat maker - a carpenter and actually the same guy who built the bat rack at their place (the same as the one in our Platinum Lounge!)
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Gray nics?
sadly the actual Warner shape isn't available, and I know of no other Gray-Nicolls bat that would compare to these.
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A brand that is available to retail, I mean!
http://www.allroundercricket.com/cricket-bats/all-our-cricket-bats/cricket-bat-brands/kippax-cricket-bats (http://www.allroundercricket.com/cricket-bats/all-our-cricket-bats/cricket-bat-brands/kippax-cricket-bats)
Looks like a retailer to me!
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[url]http://www.allroundercricket.com/cricket-bats/all-our-cricket-bats/cricket-bat-brands/kippax-cricket-bats[/url] ([url]http://www.allroundercricket.com/cricket-bats/all-our-cricket-bats/cricket-bat-brands/kippax-cricket-bats[/url])
Looks like a retailer to me!
didn't know that. To be honest, we don't really keep tabs on All Rounder. They won't let us follow them on Twitter, which doesn't help. I'd be surprised if you see them in other shops, at least for the time being.
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To be fair, they've got an exclusivity deal with All Rounder so you're right in them not being open to the entire market at present - http://www.kippaxcricket.co.uk/where-to-buy/ (http://www.kippaxcricket.co.uk/where-to-buy/)
I do agree with others on the M&H front, as a youth for me they were one of the pinnacle brands when it came to classic styling (albeit horrendously too expensive for me) - just a shame they've ditched it all!
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Always had m&h but since the ck 22 style came in I've not been a fan, and prices seem to have nearly doubled from 3 years ago. Something different for me when my solution finally goes.
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Always had m&h but since the ck 22 style came in I've not been a fan, and prices seem to have nearly doubled from 3 years ago. Something different for me when my solution finally goes.
Worth noting that the older shapes (MH09, MH96 and MH87) have not increased in price at all for 2016 and they stayed the same this year too. The CK22 is the same price for 2016 too. The increases are only in the other (newer) bats, so across the range as a whole, M&H have actually frozen more of their bat prices than most others in the past couple of years...
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NC?
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People moaning about the stickers not being classy - M&H have produced some pretty poor stickers down the years, they weren't all the classic original ones! I quite like the new ones, good update of the brand. Also, seem to recall almost everyone loved the CK22 stickers? So basically you're unhappy with the colours, cheer up.
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NC?
Nick Compton. Was mentioned earlier in the thread.
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People moaning about the stickers not being classy - M&H have produced some pretty poor stickers down the years, they weren't all the classic original ones! I quite like the new ones, good update of the brand. Also, seem to recall almost everyone loved the CK22 stickers? So basically you're unhappy with the colours, cheer up.
NO! NO! NOOOO!
Didn't like the CK22 they were terrible! Stickers have mostly been poor quality but looked effortlessly stylish in the past.
I can't remember seeing anyone using a bat with their new stickers on which speaks volumes considering the area we play in.
Rant over, hope the legs on the mend :D
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sadly the actual Warner shape isn't available, and I know of no other Gray-Nicolls bat that would compare to these.
Warner shape is/was available in aid in a limited run of 50(and I have one)
My fortunately the UK will as per usual be late to the party if they arrive at all!
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M&H are not the only brand to jazz up a "classy/traditional/stylish/luxury" range - look at Newbery. I can understand why some don't like it, but like it or not, the market is heading this way, and the cricket market evolves more quickly than the tuxedo market in my opinion. You only need to look at the changes in bat sizes and shapes and T20 cricket in general to understand that.
I wasn't comparing them as products themselves, simply a good example of how something can look stylish consistently across decades without ever losing its identity but still manages to stay current. I was inspired by the poster for the new Bond film Spectre! Daniel Craigs tux harks back to that classic Connery one from Dr No buts its essentially the same look. And to bring it back to a purely cricketing point Gray Nics have done this beautifully for 2016's range. Classic but modern.
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I agree with the above post
M&H are missing the point
You build a brand over years, that people aspire too
Then forget all of it in pursuit of what? More sales? Nah, not for long
There's a lot more choice out there these days, and people are a lot more savvy than they used to be, especially with value for money
Brighter,snazzier? Stickers,,,stupid edges, possibly over drying clefts
Goes against the beautiful bats that generations aspired to own
Been a while since I popped into the county ground to look at their stuff, my heart and head have been spoilt with too many horror stories of broken bats and poor customer service of late, so would take more than 50mm edges and a free refurb to change that.
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I think the colour scheme looks good although blueroom had the same colour scheme a few years back.
I've seen quite a lot of m&h's being used, but generally there either the older solution, distinctions or have the retro' stickers on them.
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I would also add that I think Newbery have done this quite well with the Kudos range. Perhaps not everyones cup of tea, I'm thinking the blingy, bombastic T/20 crowd; I doubt many kids will be clamouring to own one, but they have essentially held onto what Newbery is all about whilst still innovating.
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Nick Compton. Was mentioned earlier in the thread.
Oh yeah.
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I quite like the NC colours, especially on the softs. I've had a few M&H's and they have all been superb, have all the detractors actually owned one? If they have I must just be very lucky!! ;)
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Got three
Including the one that snapped in half
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Were they all crap?
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Most people agree that they perform well. However, they also agree that they are expensive, have lost a little class in their branding and in the recent past been poorly finished.
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Don't get me wrong, I do think they are expensive. It's a sort of guilty pleasure as when I first started playing one of the seniors bought one every season and literally had a bag full of M&H guns. Think it's that reason why I've paid a lot of money for a couple of them. I personally like the modern twist on the old original branding. My CK22 is badly finished, but I'll happily trade that for its performance
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Were they all crap?
No not at all.
Very heavy? Dense for the profile but pinged nice, until it snapped in half
I play in Somerset sometimes and I've seen loads of em now, that have snapped toes or split down the grains.
Seen two ck,s that were planks,,,but then the one Asad had at Uzi was unreal.
My three affinitys are on another planet for similar money
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Glad you had a good day Paul. Very jealous of the job you have mate :)
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Really don't see the point in 50mm plus edges, no spine and concaving beyond the edge height. I'm presuming that's that case to get bats like that. To me they don't look big, just look a bit odd. Much prefer a decent edge and a decent spine height, Each to their own though!
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Can't argue about Affinity, got some belters myself but I'll always have a M&H in the collection
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People were whinging about GM branding when it changed I recall. There sales increase considerably. I've had 2 ck22 and a amplus which I regret selling. I don't believe they are value for money and have pathetic finishing to say the least. That being said they do perform brilliantly I scored my first 50 with the amplus so I have a soft spot for them.
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I play league cricket in Somerset and over the years have seen hundreds of S6, original and original lows - all when they were £180-250 max in price. I've had a couple myself and they were fabulous bats. Loved the minimal branding and simple, clean lines. Most games would have had at least one player from each side with an M&H bat but that's no longer the case - they've totally priced themselves out of the market in club level cricket and I haven't seen one player with a bat from their new ranges over the last few years - That says it all to me.
Having quite a few public schools in the area, along with Millfield etc not far away I know their target audience isn't the average club player but the public school kids with parents who think nothing of kitting them out with everything from the top ranges. I've been in there a few times and you only have to listen to the accents and see the cars in the car park to know that the reason they keep increasing their prices is because they can - those people will keep paying it.
I may be wrong but seem to remember Rob saying the majority of bats sold are harrow/junior size now.
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Gloucestershire based and play ALOT of cricket.. I've seen one M&H in 2016 and I think I saw 2 last year. They must sell to someone but I don't see them at all.
Main brands I see around here:
2 x kippax
1 x h4l
25 x RPc/Blueroom
Gn
Odd gm but not many
Kook
Asian brands for Asian teams
That's about it.. Oh one Bulldog and one Vulcan St indoor cricket this year.
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One of the oppo I know through other means had an amplus, was a serious gunn and probably improved his game abit.
Yet season after he had a bulldog. Asked what happened to the amplus and he said it broke after 13months, and at there prices it's not something he's gonna buy again as he'd want atleast 5 years out of it(blasphemy to us lot)
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One of the oppo I know through other means had an amplus, was a serious gunn and probably improved his game abit.
Yet season after he had a bulldog. Asked what happened to the amplus and he said it broke after 13months, and at there prices it's not something he's gonna buy again as he'd want atleast 5 years out of it(blasphemy to us lot)
I always find it quite upsetting to hear this sort of thing. Just because one bat breaks after 13 months doesn't mean the next one will - why does everyone assume this?! All bats are different, it's bad luck more than anything, isn't it?!
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I always find it quite upsetting to hear this sort of thing. Just because one bat breaks after 13 months doesn't mean the next one will - why does everyone assume this?! All bats are different, it's bad luck more than anything, isn't it?!
Expensive bad luck, so if you were to spend it again would you risk that brand or even retailer again??
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Expensive bad luck, so if you were to spend it again would you risk that brand or even retailer again??
but bad luck that may happen with any other brand or bat, right, regardless of price? Same chance of another one breaking as an M&H, no?
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but bad luck that may happen with any other brand or bat, right, regardless of price? Same chance of another one breaking as an M&H, no?
Notice I didn't say a particular brand ? You can apply that to any brand, if you buy a bat for silly amounts you expect performance, looks and durability. If any fail, especially within 3 years you will probably question the brand. If it fails really quickly like 13 months, you'd certainky think twice before going back to whatever brand it was and probably the retailer. Might as well 'risk' another brand/retailer after that
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That assumes there's bad luck involved. It could be there's a fundamental issue with the bat shape or manufacturing process, which a consumer won't necessarily know.
I can understand why a customer may try another brand after such an experience, but you're 100% right in saying even a well made and designed bat can break.
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Notice I didn't say a particular brand ? You can apply that to any brand, if you buy a bat for silly amounts you expect performance, looks and durability. If any fail, especially within 3 years you will probably question the brand. If it fails really quickly like 13 months, you'd certainky think twice before going back to whatever brand it was and probably the retailer. Might as well 'risk' another brand/retailer after that
completely get that, but would an amazing bat that lasts 13 months be better than an average one that lasts 5 years?
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When you pitch your products at a premium price, should you not assume a premium product and service.
THIS is where M&H fall down
There's no question they can make a half decent bat, but it's the frequencies of breakages , poor finishing and exceptionally poor service.
I could go on about there attitude to the average joe customer, but I can feel myself getting wound up!
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completely get that, but would an amazing bat that lasts 13 months be better than an average one that lasts 5 years?
Chances are after a couple of years use, won't the "average bat" become "amazing" anyway?
Maybe the question should be: what's better, an "amazing" bat for 13 months from new, or a bat that takes a couple of seasons playing in and is "amazing" for the rest of it's life?
So many ifs and buts with bats, at the end of the day it's all swings and roundabouts, with a fairly large dollop of marketing BS thrown in for good measure...
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Bats are the same any any purchase, if you have a bad experience you're less likely to be a repeat customer with thy brand.
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I play league cricket in Somerset and over the years have seen hundreds of S6, original and original lows - all when they were £180-250 max in price. I've had a couple myself and they were fabulous bats. Loved the minimal branding and simple, clean lines. Most games would have had at least one player from each side with an M&H bat but that's no longer the case - they've totally priced themselves out of the market in club level cricket and I haven't seen one player with a bat from their new ranges over the last few years - That says it all to me.
Having quite a few public schools in the area, along with Millfield etc not far away I know their target audience isn't the average club player but the public school kids with parents who think nothing of kitting them out with everything from the top ranges. I've been in there a few times and you only have to listen to the accents and see the cars in the car park to know that the reason they keep increasing their prices is because they can - those people will keep paying it.
I may be wrong but seem to remember Rob saying the majority of bats sold are harrow/junior size now.
Their harrow bats are a great deal if you are a short person. You can also find great discounts as displayed in their Facebook/YouTube videos.
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Really don't see the point in 50mm plus edges, no spine and concaving beyond the edge height. I'm presuming that's that case to get bats like that. To me they don't look big, just look a bit odd. Much prefer a decent edge and a decent spine height, Each to their own though!
It is the feel when ball makes contact with the bat of that shape that is different. I own a thick edged, highly concaved bat with low spine and it has a distinct personality - for lack of a better term. :) It feels great and ball goes miles, very comfortable experience .
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but bad luck that may happen with any other brand or bat, right, regardless of price? Same chance of another one breaking as an M&H, no?
This is or was the issue.
Buy a GM or original, it plays amazing but breaks after 13 months, and you can't afford an original to replace it, so you buy an 808 instead and get a good few years out of it.
He bought an m and h, loved it but It broke after 13months and he couldn't afford to buy another bat at that price, and there wasn't a lower spec/ priced m and h to buy instead. So he had to go look at other brands.
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Chances are after a couple of years use, won't the "average bat" become "amazing" anyway?
Maybe the question should be: what's better, an "amazing" bat for 13 months from new, or a bat that takes a couple of seasons playing in and is "amazing" for the rest of it's life?
So many ifs and buts with bats, at the end of the day it's all swings and roundabouts, with a fairly large dollop of marketing BS thrown in for good measure...
That's a good point. Generalising a bat as constantly average for five years is a bit unrealistic. I guess I am trying to make another point, which is probably better for another thread - something along the lines of: if a bat is amazing and helps to improve your game, but only lasts a relatively short period of time, how highly would you value it? what price would such a bat be worth?
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When you pitch your products at a premium price, should you not assume a premium product and service.
THIS is where M&H fall down
There's no question they can make a half decent bat, but it's the frequencies of breakages , poor finishing and exceptionally poor service.
I could go on about there attitude to the average joe customer, but I can feel myself getting wound up!
Let me address some issues here:
1. Frequencies of breakage: we have had fewer M&H returns than any other brand this year, and over the past four years I can count on one hand how many have come back to us. Given that they are always one of our top 5 best selling brands every year, this is pretty good going.
2. Poor finishing: whilst I am inclined to agree that others finish their bats better, how can a fully knocked in bat - a bat that's been knocked in by hand (with a mallet), which M&H do (I know this because I have seen it with my own eyes whenever I've visited - it's not just "marketing") be finished well? Quite tricky to give a glossy sheen to a bat with mallet indentations all over, isn't it? How many other brands can honestly say that their bats come fully knocked in (by hand), something that can save a customer up to £50! This, in turn, makes the higher prices of the bats more justifiable, doesn't it?
Or again, maybe I am missing something?!
Just seems to be a lot of anti M&H for questionable reasons imho.
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It's also the finishing on the back ijc. You can see sanding marks. The stickers aren't embossed or of premium quality when I purchased. Even there unknocked in bats are poorly finished. I understand finishing doesn't score you runs and neither does a free bat cover but it is a nice touch
Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk
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?
You honestly want me to reply to what you've just posted?
Read back through my posts
Read back through the posts that have had first hand issues with these bats
50 quid to knock a bat in!
For what they cost, forgetting the finishing and breakages, how many SUPERIOR bats could you buy?
I understand the appeal the ex public schoolboys of our capital city may find with the M&H brand and will no doubt snap up your hand picked selection.
My problem and major bugbear with the brand I have already written about.
My son played at Somerset so I possibly know a little more than most about M&H bats, so I will end my comments and opinions now and wish you the best of luck with them
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If you expect a bat to last a year and it costs you 450-500 pounds its essentially costing you about £15-20 every time you use it.
Madness.
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?
You honestly want me to reply to what you've just posted?
Read back through my posts
Read back through the posts that have had first hand issues with these bats
50 quid to knock a bat in!
For what they cost, forgetting the finishing and breakages, how many SUPERIOR bats could you buy?
I understand the appeal the ex public schoolboys of our capital city may find with the M&H brand and will no doubt snap up your hand picked selection.
My problem and major bugbear with the brand I have already written about.
My son played at Somerset so I possibly know a little more than most about M&H bats, so I will end my comments and opinions now and wish you the best of luck with them
I said "up to £50" because some shops will charge you that amount for knocking-in, but this is an irrelevant exercise if he buys an M&H bat.
Fair enough - just feel we are working off a larger sample here with our sales over the past four years, especially with our stats about returns etc., so it's perhaps more of a fair representation.
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It's also the finishing on the back ijc. You can see sanding marks. The stickers aren't embossed or of premium quality when I purchased. Even there unknocked in bats are poorly finished. I understand finishing doesn't score you runs and neither does a free bat cover but it is a nice touch
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The stickers aren't embossed? Who gives a flying fudge, seriously? Can't speak for all years but the previous M&H stickers were pretty good quality on the ones various mates of mine had. Also M&H have been giving out free bat covers with everytjimg but the cheap models for years, have they stopped?
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The stickers aren't embossed? Who gives a flying fudge, seriously? Can't speak for all years but the previous M&H stickers were pretty good quality on the ones various mates of mine had. Also M&H have been giving out free bat covers with everytjimg but the cheap models for years, have they stopped?
no, they haven't stopped - not sure why that came up.
M&H bat covers admittedly aren't the best, but at least they give them out (with all bats - even juniors), unlike many others...
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I got 2 ck22 and an amplus there was no bat cover and I DO care about the small details when it comes to premium products. I'll say this about the stickers, they are neither the worst nor the best I've come across.
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completely get that, but would an amazing bat that lasts 13 months be better than an average one that lasts 5 years?
To the average consumer, the bat that last 5 years would of course be better - surprisingly not everyone has £500 a year to spend on a cricket bat!! Would you really be happy spending £500 on something that only lasts 13 months?
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To the average consumer, the bat that last 5 years would of course be better - surprisingly not everyone has £500 a year to spend on a cricket bat!! Would you really be happy spending £500 on something that only lasts 13 months?
Sounds like a 2 year bat warranty might be more useful that a free refurb or bat cover!
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Are bats becoming more like technology where we see them as expendable items now? If your TV/Stereo used to break you'd be looking for a repair shop where as now you more often than not just go out and buy a new one.
Should a bat that costs £500 last longer than a bat that costs £250 or are we just accepting the fact that bats will last a couple of seasons now before needing replacing as were now more focused on performance than anything else? There are members in our club that have used the same bat for 10+ years and they are still going strong.
This isnt specific to M&H as my eyes nearly popped out my head when is saw the RRP of the Kook Cadeojo Pro at £781.00!!
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Are bats becoming more like technology where we see them as expendable items now? If your TV/Stereo used to break you'd be looking for a repair shop where as now you more often than not just go out and buy a new one.
Should a bat that costs £500 last longer than a bat that costs £250 or are we just accepting the fact that bats will last a couple of seasons now before needing replacing as were now more focused on performance than anything else? There are members in our club that have used the same bat for 10+ years and they are still going strong.
This isnt specific to M&H as my eyes nearly popped out my head when is saw the RRP of the Kook Cadeojo Pro at £781.00!!
All the clefts are sourced from Wrights for similar prices, the perceived value of a cleft is applied by the manufacturer afterwards. My point being a G1 cleft is as likely to break as a G4 cleft. However, if the manufacturer wants to charge a huge price in the expectation the customer will buy it, they must be aware the customer has expectations as well - ie. they will expect to be looked after. If I buy a top of the range BMW, I don't expect it to conk out after 13 months and BMW tell me to do one, I expect to be looked after. High spending customers are rare and any company that doesn't look after them are shooting themselves in the foot.
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isnt a grade 1 cleft £65?
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Should a bat that costs £500 last longer than a bat that costs £250 or are we just accepting the fact that bats will last a couple of seasons now before needing replacing as were now more focused on performance than anything else? There are members in our club that have used the same bat for 10+ years and they are still going strong.
Interesting point. I play in a team that have members having bats for years and others replace annually (without scoring runs!?). I am finding myself scanning the market for a G1 or G2 bat and cannot believe the jump in price. Hence looking on a cricket bat forum to identify where my money is best spent! I am not tight (contrary to what it may seem in this comment!), nor an old moaning man as I am not yet 30. I have had my current bat since 2009 (Gunn & Moore DXM 909 which cost £180) and it has faired well until the end of last season when it started to make dull groans when driving. So 6 and a half seasons of use which cost near £28 a year. Scored well over 2500 runs, so that makes it about 8p per run! Fantastic value. I have always liked the MH branding as it is classy and something to aspire towards. Genuinely, I've always thought you'd have to be a decent bat to warrant using one in the middle, otherwise you get the jibes coming your way - "That's a nice expensive bat, shame you're ******* **** and aren't using it" - I play against some pikey teams! Now, with prices nearing (or above) £500 then you really need to be a quality bat to use a MH if you think like me! Reading some points, it is said that performance wise there is not much difference be G1, G2, G3 bats - the only difference is the aesthetics with the grains, colours and finish? I could be wrong... Also, it is said that bats last about 1500 runs. So in theory a good bat that scores 500+ runs a season (on the safe side, I know proper batsmen score more!) will have a top end MH bat for 3 season at £500. So £166 a year. Doesn't really add up for me.
I personally think the new ranges look great. Someone that saves up (or is loaded) will have a lovely looking bat, that I presume will perform well. Hopefully it doesn't break in the first season!
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People do seem to forget that M&H do sell cheaper bats too, sadly on checking the prices have gone up but still. If you don't want to pay the full whack for an amplus, the original is basically the same shape and a grade 2 is 220 rrp (used to be 150!) Which is a shade cheaper than a GM 808 - probably one of the best selling bat grades out there?
Also new colours aren't my thing so much, but genuinely think the original stickers look fantastic and fitting for an M&H.
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People do seem to forget that M&H do sell cheaper bats too, sadly on checking the prices have gone up but still. If you don't want to pay the full whack for an amplus, the original is basically the same shape and a grade 2 is 220 rrp (used to be 150!) Which is a shade cheaper than a GM 808 - probably one of the best selling bat grades out there?
Fair point regarding the cheaper models of MH. Just merely griping at the top end bat compared to other brands! :-) I'm sure IJC will sell a few of these as they do look striking. I can see how traditionalists may not be keen on the design however and opting for a Salix, being a similarly positioned brand.
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In my honest opinion and extensive experience of brands, I do not rate M&H anywhere near Salix!!
The difference in finishing and pure quality is not even close!
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Fair point regarding the cheaper models of MH. Just merely griping at the top end bat compared to other brands! :-) I'm sure IJC will sell a few of these as they do look striking. I can see how traditionalists may not be keen on the design however and opting for a Salix, being a similarly positioned brand.
Too end rrps:
GN - 750!
Kook - 550
GM - 530
Salix - 500?
Even Ton - 500
So they're not unusually priced by any stretch of the imagination. How much is a genuine Warner replica in the UK?
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So they're not unusually priced by any stretch of the imagination. How much is a genuine Warner replica in the UK?
I will go back to the drawing board re pricing! Sites I've seen the highest was around £425, yet I guess they may still be the 2015 stock. Shuddering to think it won't be long before bats will be going for over a £1k! Either way, I think my money will be going to Robert Pack this time round! :-)
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There are already bats that cost £1k!!
The Signature package from Laver, although that does include a net bat and other bits so £600-700 for a Signature starts to look like a bargain after seeing other brands looking at £500-600 for their bats!
And the Newbury Cenkos (think that was the name) was around £1k?
Sure there was another but at my age I forget!!
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There are already bats that cost £1k!!
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
I shall now spend my time looking to buy salix bat willow and plant on my brothers farm!
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I will go back to the drawing board re pricing! Sites I've seen the highest was around £425, yet I guess they may still be the 2015 stock. Shuddering to think it won't be long before bats will be going for over a £1k! Either way, I think my money will be going to Robert Pack this time round! :-)
Newbery did the Cenkos for 1k already! I don't think I'll be buying a high grade bat from a major company again sadly. On the other hand, the quality offered by an increasing number of small brands is superb for much better prices so we're still alright!
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Sounds like a 2 year bat warranty might be more useful that a free refurb or bat cover!
interesting comment. This is actually something Chase are trialing this year with their new Platinum bat.
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There are already bats that cost £1k!!
The Signature package from Laver, although that does include a net bat and other bits so £600-700 for a Signature starts to look like a bargain after seeing other brands looking at £500-600 for their bats!
And the Newbury Cenkos (think that was the name) was around £1k?
Sure there was another but at my age I forget!!
Spartan Diamond is also £1000 RRP. If they get the willow this year. Big if...
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Bat warranty could be a good option. Common sense needs to prevail with how long the warranty should be and what is exactly covered. Splitting after 3 months obviously needs to be covered... Shall watch this space. Moving on from Millichamp slightly, when is the Newbery range going to be announced?
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How much was the rpc with the diamond in it?
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Bat warranty could be a good option. Common sense needs to prevail with how long the warranty should be and what is exactly covered. Splitting after 3 months obviously needs to be covered... Shall watch this space. Moving on from Millichamp slightly, when is the Newbery range going to be announced?
It already has been, and as it happens, I am visiting them tomorrow to pick more bats!
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Perfect. I know they've announced the Blitz and the new stickers. Just wanted to know the softs really, and the ranges of the Blitz. :-)
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Here's a good one, just received through this weeks M&H newsletter:
We're offering our newsletter subscribers 30% off all Short Handle and Junior International Bats. Simply use the discount code MHINT15 at checkout to claim your discount.
With its enormous blade, it's easy to see why the International has been our most popular bat in 2015. Featuring the professional’s profile of choice, the International maximises performance in all conditions and formats of the game.
So popular that you're discontinuing it for 2016.
Of course M&H, of course.
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Maybe ss struggle to make that profile.....
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They outsource? I thought all bats were M&H made?
Learn new things everyday haha
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Maybe ss struggle to make that profile.....
Oh no you didn't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You went there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You is bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Why would a company own all the machinery needed to make a cricket bat, including a press, but then not use any of that expensive kit and outsource instead?
How many people making the past few comments have actually been to their workshop?
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I think the real issue is that they not had any one who can make from the raw cleft so makes sense to use part made bats from India so they can get the dry willow to make the 55 MM and with a thine handle and poor finishing maybe they just keeping the machines to hide their little secret
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Here's a good one, just received through this weeks M&H newsletter:
We're offering our newsletter subscribers 30% off all Short Handle and Junior International Bats. Simply use the discount code MHINT15 at checkout to claim your discount.
With its enormous blade, it's easy to see why the International has been our most popular bat in 2015. Featuring the professional’s profile of choice, the International maximises performance in all conditions and formats of the game.
So popular that you're discontinuing it for 2016.
Of course M&H, of course.
OK I give up - this is clearly just "marketing"! ;)
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Why would a company own all the machinery needed to make a cricket bat, including a press, but then not use any of that expensive kit and outsource instead?
How many people making the past few comments have actually been to their workshop?
Not sure if it's the case now but a few years ago I believe the issue was not knowing how to use or maybe best use the equipment to make a quality product. Like I say not sure if it's the case now in fact I believe it's not but like a day a few years ago that was the case.
The new pink/blue model is slowly growing on me shame about the price not growing on me.
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Why would a company own all the machinery needed to make a cricket bat, including a press, but then not use any of that expensive kit and outsource instead?
How many people making the past few comments have actually been to their workshop?
Gray Nicolls? Hunts County? Just because they own the machinery doesn't mean they make all in house.
We should however be very careful on throwing around accusations without hard evidence to back it up. It's very damaging to the few who do make all their bats in house.
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I would have been very tempted had it not been for the price. Am sure most people have issues with that. Personally, have always wanted to try the Amplus
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Gray Nicolls? Hunts County? Just because they own the machinery doesn't mean they make all in house.
We should however be very careful on throwing around accusations without hard evidence to back it up. It's very damaging to the few who do make all their bats in house.
I have seen the machinery being used to make bats there as well, hence why I asked about who's actually visited to witness first hand and prove me wrong. I agree, accusations are flying around with insufficient evidence imho!
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Maybe ss struggle to make that profile.....
What are you implying? SS makes Millichamp & Hall bats? Is this an open secret?
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No idea but these are the kind of 'secrets' that aren't needed. Just be upfront ad honest as no one really cares. People are its interested to know
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I have seen the machinery being used to make bats there as well, hence why I asked about who's actually visited to witness first hand and prove me wrong. I agree, accusations are flying around with insufficient evidence imho!
Evidence can be hard to come by, no one reveals all about there goods, some will be more open, mongoose, county will admit to using ss, others won't but many will know in the industry through other channels and this gets shared about.
Anyway, millichamp may well not be having there bats made by ss, but someone in England certainly is importing them.
https://www.zauba.com/export-amplus-bat-hs-code.html (https://www.zauba.com/export-amplus-bat-hs-code.html)
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Haha fantastic, you have to love the internet at times
Not a bad mark up for a £69 bat...
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That looks a dangerous website, god knows who else we will find if we try!
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Ohhh no this is too much fun... Mark Wood only gets 4 bats for the UAE tour from his sponsors the poor chap - Jimmy gets 10! Don't really trust it though tbh, already found some that blatantly aren't true...
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also for some reason 1 ck22 fully finished but not english willow was imported
https://www.zauba.com/export-ck22-bat-hs-code.html (https://www.zauba.com/export-ck22-bat-hs-code.html)
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Evidence can be hard to come by, no one reveals all about there goods, some will be more open, mongoose, county will admit to using ss, others won't but many will know in the industry through other channels and this gets shared about.
Anyway, millichamp may well not be having there bats made by ss, but someone in England certainly is importing them.
https://www.zauba.com/export-amplus-bat-hs-code.html (https://www.zauba.com/export-amplus-bat-hs-code.html)
Interesting... 50 a go? Not worth it, surely. Also M&H don't make the Amplus any more since modernising all the shapes and names. No mention of any of their current range, or of any other M&H bats bar that one CK22. Doesn't add up.
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also for some reason 1 ck22 fully finished but not english willow was imported
https://www.zauba.com/export-ck22-bat-hs-code.html (https://www.zauba.com/export-ck22-bat-hs-code.html)
Do M&H have a lathe?
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i thought they still made the amplus which they renamed as mh09 if i remember correctly.
ive never actually looked in the workshop just the actual shop
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also for some reason 1 ck22 fully finished but not english willow was imported
https://www.zauba.com/export-ck22-bat-hs-code.html (https://www.zauba.com/export-ck22-bat-hs-code.html)
that could just be an overseas retailer shipping here.
The Amplus is much more of an issue and will be investigated very seriously this end.
Thanks, Chris, for bringing this to our attention!
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Interesting... 50 a go? Not worth it, surely. Also M&H don't make the Amplus any more since modernising all the shapes and names. No mention of any of their current range, or of any other M&H bats bar that one CK22. Doesn't add up.
Yes your right I made that entire website myself from scratch just for........
The exact contents or name may not always be put on the shipping manifest(a company may request they not to due to pesky forum members). Lots may be merely under a non descript name "cricket bat English willow sharp 11"
Check the dates, beginning of 2015 they shipped, when was it called the amplus and when did it switch to mh09?
Someone inported a 100 amplus shaped non finished cricket bats at the beginning of 2015, they may well be fakes. Who knows.
How many do we reckon millichamp sell a year?
Personally I thought ijc should know as if there being lied to. It's not the way to do business.
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Can't comment on the M&H but when i search for a few other brands and knowing what I do know for a fact (not rumors or hearsay) about those brands the information is correct for those on the site.
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100 Amplus * £69 = £6900 cost before shipping? - if they go for £350 each then that's £35,000 or £28,100 gross profit (before stickers and grips, wages, light). If they sell that in similar volumes across the range and then double it for juniors then it's 200k gross profit on bats before softs/clubwear/repairs etc etc. They don't need huge volumes at the prices charged, assuming a fairly compact setup.
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6-Feb-2015 95069990 SPORTS GOODS-M& H WARANNTY CARDS FOR BATS United Kingdom Tughlakabad PCS 2,000 18,640 9
Lol
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100 Amplus * £69 = £6900 cost before shipping? - if they go for £350 each then that's £35,000 or £28,100 gross profit (before stickers and grips, wages, light). If they sell that in similar volumes across the range and then double it for juniors then it's 200k gross profit on bats before softs/clubwear/repairs etc etc. They don't need huge volumes at the prices charged, assuming a fairly compact setup.
They won't be selling them for £350 a go though, most of them would be heading for retail at a trade price of considerably less. Add on the shipping costs too.
Smilley - not suggesting you're making it up of course, just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense! No other models coming up in searches, and outsourcing for the sake of 100 pieces doesn't seem likely if they're making all the other bats in house. Changed to MHXX at the end of 2014 iirc? Certainly before 2015.
Be interested to see where this leads as I'll admit to wondering why the shaping of some of their bats changed so dramatically - out went the trademark rounded edges/faces and in came squarer and whiter bats.
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Well this thread should keep me entertained for the evening!
Nice to see the smoke and mirrors can be seen through on occasions.
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I really don't get why people don't just tell the truth, how many people across the cricket market really care anyway.. Only us on here
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These sites are legitimate. It just depends as to how the export is declared, sometimes they can just be declared as cricket bats without a brand or shape mentioned. Either way very interesting
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Is it a recent revelation or have people had suspicions for a while?
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News to me as kicking horse were making them the last time I checked
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there was someone on here recently whose girlfriend/wife bought him one of those 'experiences' where you go down, pick a cleft and have a bat made for you there and then. Therefore, they must be some bats made there.
Additionally, when I was there a few months ago looking for a toe guard the workshop door was open. Although no-one was in there working, they certainly had all the machinery needed to make bats.
We should probably be a little more reserved in our criticism until we know for sure that the amplus shapes were destined for M&H. It could be someone who has got that particular shape copied abroad and importing them to sell through eBay and the like. That said, In my opinion Their attitude, illegal 'no warranty' policy and prices deserve the criticism they have received.
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They did sell some machinery last year on ebay, because I bought a drum sander from there
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This is not going to end well
(http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130902233454/adventuretimewithfinnandjake/images/9/96/Angry-mob-simps.jpeg)
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that could just be an overseas retailer shipping here.
The Amplus is much more of an issue and will be investigated very seriously this end.
Thanks, Chris, for bringing this to our attention!
You should investigate this.
My other favorites, CA and Laver make their own bats. Phew.
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Just read about the Import website. This is crazy. The first line from their website says "Millichamp and Hall specialise in manufacturing award winning bespoke cricket bats and hand-make every single one of our bats in our workshops at the Somerset County Cricket Ground in Taunton, Somerset."
Hope we get some official word on it.
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Just read about the Import website. This is crazy. The first line from their website says "Millichamp and Hall specialise in manufacturing award winning bespoke cricket bats and hand-make every single one of our bats in our workshops at the Somerset County Cricket Ground in Taunton, Somerset."
Hope we get some official word on it.
Depends on your definition of hand make? I suppose sanding and stickering might count. Agree, its very concerning though.
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News to me as kicking horse were making them the last time I checked
I don't think this is particularly helpful Roco - I know for a fact that the directors of Kicking Horse do not ever divulge who they make for.
With ping like ours, such knowledge would be very dangerous on the open market.
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I guess we will never know the true story then
we may just have to rein noses in and not care who makes what for who and just buy what we feel we like
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Yes your right I made that entire website myself from scratch just for........
The exact contents or name may not always be put on the shipping manifest(a company may request they not to due to pesky forum members). Lots may be merely under a non descript name "cricket bat English willow sharp 11"
Check the dates, beginning of 2015 they shipped, when was it called the amplus and when did it switch to mh09?
Someone inported a 100 amplus shaped non finished cricket bats at the beginning of 2015, they may well be fakes. Who knows.
How many do we reckon millichamp sell a year?
Personally I thought ijc should know as if there being lied to. It's not the way to do business.
initial investigations suggest they are Amplus shaped bats imported by another seller, possibly an eBay only type, I don't know.
The quantities do look very low and the fact that the other models aren't there suggest that there isn't much to be read into this. I should know more soon...
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Where has the pictures gone was just looking back and noticed they had gone
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Simon, yes Millichamp asked us to remove them from the thread.
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Hi IJC,
Did they give you a definitive answer on whether they get any of the batmaking process done in india?
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Simon, yes Millichamp asked us to remove them from the thread.
For what reason exactly?
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Neon, we can't discuss this.
Lazza, Paul answered most of that in a post above in this thread I believe - he certainly knows more than me on this one!
Chris
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There can only be two reasons why millichamp asked for there removal.
One they want to announce/reveal them there selves as an exclusive(and that wouldn't be something you can't say)
Or
Two, they don't want them on the forum because they have realised we know a lot more than they want us to know, and are trying to distance there brand from the forum.
The fact they have asked for them removed means they knew they was on here, which means there well aware of discussions happening.
So why not come and prove they make every bat and fight for the truth(if they do make all the bats)
Why go the run and hide option?
As remember, as well as this, they removed there YouTube video after it was slated on here.
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A very disappointing response.
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All this is just speculation till proven otherwise, the only thing which will clear up the whole matter will be a direct answer from Millichamp themselves but I feel the forum isn't going to get one as I personally think they see this forum in a negative way.
And if they do come out to say they don't make some of their bats then they will more than likely be slated further as forumites discuss the fact they have been deceiving punters
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Its the hush-hush from IJC I don't understand.
Taking exerts from their own "About Us" section;
Essentially, any bat on our shelves comes with our personal guarantee - we can tell you why we picked it and the story behind it.
Tell us the story, please?
For too long it has been about the same brands making lots of money off customers who are unaware that there are better places out there.
Isn't that essentially M&H?
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Its the hush-hush from IJC I don't understand.
Taking exerts from their own "About Us" section;
Essentially, any bat on our shelves comes with our personal guarantee - we can tell you why we picked it and the story behind it.
Tell us the story, please?
For too long it has been about the same brands making lots of money off customers who are unaware that there are better places out there.
Isn't that essentially M&H?
philosophy is tricky
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Cheeky !!
Everyone on here only raised suspicions with an evidence but why would M&h provide someone's suspicion any substance by doing silly stuff like forcing Ijc to remove those posts & Ijc happily complying without any justification on contradicting their ETHOS.
HORRIBLE [emoji40][emoji40]
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:D
Some of the responses are funny!
As much a fan I am of M&H, I just don't see it as a conspiracy if the want to protect their business or how they run it. No legit business would want to see their name dragged thru mud in an online forum by irate posters. Makes no business sense.
Here is what I care about:
- Amplus is a great product
- It delivered when I needed
- Compared to What I paid for my Amplus, I have collectively paid MORE for other bats (brands that are raved by forumites) that turned out to be duds. In terms of return-on-investment (ROI), Amplus was a better investment. Also, that indicates the collective/mob wisdom of the forum is not always right.
In reality, there are a handful of brands out there that consistently produce a good product. This little sherlock-holmery by the forum will not change that M&H is one of them. And, that is good enough for me.
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BAD LUCK with the duds mate !!
Sure Amplus is a good bat but why make false claims of making it entirely in the UK is the point here & later, cheap antics to dodge.
Let's see if they can own up by saying that they are made in India but FINISHED (well, barely) in the UK & then charge the amount they are. Huh !!
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I don't really understand your post?
Isn't a forum to discuss,educate,argue?
I can't see a post mentioning a conspiracy?
M&H charge a premium price for a supposed or alleged product.
To advertise and promote the premise that it's made in the workshop at Taunton is simply not true.
It may have been in the past, it may be in the future
But at the minute, they are not .
The problems with their products, outlined in earlier posts are there to be interpreted
As I mentioned earlier, I aspired to own an M&H bat, I bought three, and was hugely disappointed with what I bought.
Knowing that they were possibly not uk made, only adds to the disappointment
There are too many batmakers out there who would give anything for the heritage of M&H
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I agree. Lets put the pitch forks down and chill
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But at the minute, they are not .
To be fair, is this true? I don't think anyone has confirmed either way
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To be fair, is this true? I don't think anyone has confirmed either way
Maybe not. That's exactly where M&h could have opted for coming out clean instead of getting the post deleted.
Ofcourse the forum may not dent their sales but if I claim my product to be what they do & charge such sums - It'd be imperative to me to stay clean irrespective of the media.
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:D
Some of the responses are funny!
As much a fan I am of M&H, I just don't see it as a conspiracy if the want to protect their business or how they run it. No legit business would want to see their name dragged thru mud in an online forum by irate posters. Makes no business sense.
Here is what I care about:
- Amplus is a great product
- It delivered when I needed
- Compared to What I paid for my Amplus, I have collectively paid MORE for other bats (brands that are raved by forumites) that turned out to be duds. In terms of return-on-investment (ROI), Amplus was a better investment. Also, that indicates the collective/mob wisdom of the forum is not always right.
In reality, there are a handful of brands out there that consistently produce a good product. This little sherlock-holmery by the forum will not change that M&H is one of them. And, that is good enough for me.
The point isn't that they produce a good product. The point is-that if the allegations are founded- they are lying about it.
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Don't think M&H have a lot to gain from engaging with a witch hunt on here so not surprising that they aren't! Not sure how not wanting pictures of their new range on a forum indicates that they're up to no good either, some seem to be getting carried away without any hard evidence so far.
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The chances of M&H coming on the forum and explaining there manufacturing practices are about as likely as finding an M&H bat with Salix standard of finishing :D. On a serious note if they didn't want images shared they would have told Paul and IJC not to do so but also if they have seen there brand getting slated on here I can see why they wouldn't want there product associated with the forum or this thread I guess. There is no doubt that M&H produce a great playing bat the rest has always been a little dubious but I guess we will never really know if they fully make there bats in the UK. Has anyone actually been there and had a bat shaped, machined and finished in front of there eyes like you can at Salix, H4L or county for example or if you do visit to you just get a shaped bat finished in front of you? I guess that's about as close to the truth as we can get.
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To be fair, is this true? I don't think anyone has confirmed either way
Nobody has confirmed NOR denied.
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@ItsJustCricket Having spoken to M&H, have they satisfied you enough with their response that you will continue to stock their products this coming season?
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Similar to M&H, I was curious to see if what else I could find,
Newbery
https://www.zauba.com/export-newbery-bat-hs-code.html (https://www.zauba.com/export-newbery-bat-hs-code.html)
GM
https://www.zauba.com/export-gm-bat-hs-code.html (https://www.zauba.com/export-gm-bat-hs-code.html)
Don't know if either of these brand claim to be making every single bat in UK, and also not claiming for any such malpractices, but thought to share the findings.
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All. Chris here.
I must say I'm a little dissapointed with the witch-hunt going on here. Like some have posted before, the forum will have absolutely no affect on the sales of M&H, and it is slightly deluded to think so.
As a brand, why would you want to be associated with a forum which only drags your name through the mud, and will never affect your sales, or reputation, in a positive way.
Now, I don't know enough to comment completely about why they wanted the photos removed, all I do know is Paul took a lot more photos which they didn't want released, so think it is about them wanting to release the photos themselves, which makes business sense.
As some have said, I think the witch hunt needs to be scaled back, and everyone needs to relax a little bit rather than jumping on the band wagon!
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Its the hush-hush from IJC I don't understand.
Taking exerts from their own "About Us" section;
Essentially, any bat on our shelves comes with our personal guarantee - we can tell you why we picked it and the story behind it.
Tell us the story, please?
For too long it has been about the same brands making lots of money off customers who are unaware that there are better places out there.
Isn't that essentially M&H?
As for Neon - I've not seen you post one thing which isn't critical of IJC, so I'm struggling to see what exactly your agenda is!
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As for Neon - I've not seen you post one thing which isn't critical of IJC, so I'm struggling to see what exactly your agenda is!
It's all well and good saying everyone shouldn't ask questions and expect truthful answers rather than the cloak and dagger the industry is riddled with. It's not then helped when people take pride in 'knowing' this but not saying and expecting people to just accept it because it's what they say.
I don't care if you stock any brands or not, I don't care if M&H are doing as well as before or worse.. It's just funny how people are happy to pretend to care about cricket (not just you btw), care about value etc.. And yet prices are sky rocketing, value is dropping and more is simply coming in from Asia so there is no difference and profit is going up and up.
Then companies claim x and y about things when if they just told the truth they'd be found out or people might just go 'yeah, it is good value'. At the end of the day, you all charge prices set by manufacturers (if someone undercuts you'd complain I'm sure) so prices are actually artificially fixed rather than competitive (market forces surely dictate prices go down right???)
Meh, neon may have an agenda..he might like one of the other retailers better.. Who knows and it's been a good thread IMO.. These threads that INfORM people on the truth about the industry aw what makes the forum good.. Not just sale threads of ping ping ping 250+ quid bats
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If you are a company that purportedly stands on a philosophy of openness and truthfulness in your relationship with the consumer then closes down the conversation when exposed to scrutiny then I think you should expect criticism.
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Yes, we do largely set our prices based on the manufacturers - so that is an area we have little say on. However, we've aimed to bring in other brands, like Phantom etc, who are smaller and therefore don't have the ability to charge the larger prices that others may do.
Market forces may dictate prices go up actually. If the demand for the product is high at x price, than logically there would be sufficient demand to charge a price higher than x next year.
In reply to @windyroad. We stand on this philosophy. We live and breathe it.
I would say we are doing the opposite of running away. Paul has been actively in touch with M&H looking into this issue, and published his initial findings further up this thread. Surely that is the exact opposite? We, in our privileged position as a retailer, are more likely to find out the truth, and thus we are doing the best we can to share it with you guys.
We've not closed down any conversation?
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All. Chris here.
I must say I'm a little dissapointed with the witch-hunt going on here. Like some have posted before, the forum will have absolutely no affect on the sales of M&H, and it is slightly deluded to think so.
As a brand, why would you want to be associated with a forum which only drags your name through the mud, and will never affect your sales, or reputation, in a positive way.
Now, I don't know enough to comment completely about why they wanted the photos removed, all I do know is Paul took a lot more photos which they didn't want released, so think it is about them wanting to release the photos themselves, which makes business sense.
As some have said, I think the witch hunt needs to be scaled back, and everyone needs to relax a little bit rather than jumping on the band wagon!
I think the problem is Chris rightly or wrongly there has been a lot of speculation about M&H for a while, then IJC makes its position in the market unique (which by the way from a business point of view I think is quite cool & also brave when you don't stock GM which is probable the best or certainly top 3 brands sold in UK each year) about only stocking brands who are 100% transparent etc. you either know about M&H and there bat making practise and can't or won't say or you don't know about there practise. If it's the latter than that seems like M&H owe you an explanation regardless of the outcome and if you choose to share or not that's ultimately Paul's decision. I do not think or would like to think this isn't anything against IJC as I'm sure M&H are not the biggest seller for IJC
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M&H actually are one of our better sellers. And without getting into too much which I'm not licensed to say I will say this. We are actively in touch with M&H. We want an answer as much as you guys! We have no agenda here in hiding this from you - if the brand doesn't make the cut with our philosophy, we don't stock it. Simple as that. Therefore we are undertaking our investigation now, and will stick with our word and our honour regardless of the outcome.
I guarantee, however, that we or not withholding information from the forum, or the general public. We are seeking information from Millichamp as much as anyone, and we will let people have it as soon as we do. There's nothing here which I see can be interpreted as "running away" or "shutting down the conversation"
Chris
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You condemn it as a witchhunt. If I were sitting here having bought a £400 top of the range bat from M&H under the erroneous belief that I was supporting a small British manufacturer when the reality was very different I would like to know. A great many people on this forum like to support British manufacturers for that very reason. If this is not a forum for exposing the cricket industry to scrutiny then what is the point of it.
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I used the witch hunt phrase because others had before me, and there is no evidence whatsoever that M&H are deceiving people.
We've been to the workshop and seen the bats being made, the same as at H4L or Salix. Not many people who are slating them have done that, so the lack of evidence present before massive judgement and condemnation is the thing which we are trying to make people slow down on.
CBD
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Forget the evidence, don't like the new stickers and they're expensive - get the pitchforks out ;)
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Edge - It seems a little bit that way!
No problem with people giving their opinions at all on the decals or prices - these are objective facts. The stickers are this colour, the price is this. Like it or not, that's completely your prerogative.
However, when people who don't know about the company are posting potentially libellous comments, it isn't helpful to anyone!
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Edge - It seems a little bit that way!
No problem with people giving their opinions at all on the decals or prices - these are objective facts. The stickers are this colour, the price is this. Like it or not, that's completely your prerogative.
However, when people who don't know about the company are posting potentially libellous comments, it isn't helpful to anyone!
sigh
Yes, let's be good children and swallow the rubbish we are told and just pay up. How dare we challenge companies on their efforts.
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I have no problem with people challenging companies. WE ARE CHALLENGING THEM OURSELVES!
This is what people don't seem to be getting. We are investigating ourselves, we want to know the truth as well, as we've said multiple times!
I just want people to wait for any solid evidence first before we rush to decisions and judgements.
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I have no problem with people challenging companies. WE ARE CHALLENGING THEM OURSELVES!
This is what people don't seem to be getting. We are investigating ourselves, we want to know the truth as well, as we've said multiple times!
I just want people to wait for any solid evidence first before we rush to decisions and judgements.
Exactly. However, I did chuck an M&H in the village duckpond earlier... it floated, must be a witch. Burn it.
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If it drowns, it is made entirely in England, if it floats it's a part made Indian bat ;)
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We've been to the workshop and seen the bats being made, the same as at H4L or Salix. Not many people who are slating them have done that, so the lack of evidence present before massive judgement and condemnation is the thing which we are trying to make people slow down on.
CBD
If you have seen them made from scratch in the UK from UK sourced and dried willow then that's good enough for your philosophy and that's great news. They must be doing something remarkable to get 50mm bats from there willow even with the large amount of concaving. As iv said there bats play very well. Didn't imagine they would be one of your top sellers though, only as I don't see a huge amount of them and never have really, but every time I do see a batsmen walk out with one I hope he can't use it.
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It wasn't that long ago that the stories about m&h on here were that
A. They didn't have a press
B. There bats were made by tk
Ijc have said they have seen bats being handmade there. Give them chance to get some answers about an internet page that doesn't give any clues to who bought 101 bats called amplus. Massive respect goes to Ijc about what there trying to achieve.
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Thanks @d7bow - it isn't always easy for us, and we are investigating, and I can promise when we know anything more we will be keeping the forum updated!
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I have had a bespoke bat from there which was made in front of me from scratch and it was brilliant. They had all the kit and it was only last year. Shaped, handled, finished (nearly) etc.. However, it was £275 for a harrow as I'm only small and it lasted me HALF a season. Looking at ping and performance, it was my best performing bat ever. Hit my 1st century with it in a t20. On the other hand, the durability was awful and M&H claimed to have knocked it in for me but it was very clear it was rushed and wasn't match ready. For the money i paid for a harrow, i expected it to last at least 2 seasons.
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I have had a bespoke bat from there which was made in front of me from scratch and it was brilliant. They had all the kit and it was only last year. Shaped, handled, finished (nearly) etc.. However, it was £275 for a harrow as I'm only small and it lasted me HALF a season. Looking at ping and performance, it was my best performing bat ever. Hit my 1st century with it in a t20. On the other hand, the durability was awful and M&H claimed to have knocked it in for me but it was very clear it was rushed and wasn't match ready. For the money i paid for a harrow, i expected it to last at least 2 seasons.
Did M&H replace it?
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uksaunders - Nope, they just gave it a refurb which was actually done really well. The damage that happened was a crack in the toe and the crack spread to the face and eventually the toe fell off. Then the face was cracking. It seemed although it wasn't knocked in at all! The refurb made the bat perform well for another 2/3 months and got me through winter nets but now she's a goner.
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There can only be two reasons why millichamp asked for there removal.
One they want to announce/reveal them there selves as an exclusive(and that wouldn't be something you can't say)
Or
Two, they don't want them on the forum because they have realised we know a lot more than they want us to know, and are trying to distance there brand from the forum.
The fact they have asked for them removed means they knew they was on here, which means there well aware of discussions happening.
So why not come and prove they make every bat and fight for the truth(if they do make all the bats)
Why go the run and hide option?
As remember, as well as this, they removed there YouTube video after it was slated on here.
one is correct
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Some people have turned this post into an agenda to bag ijc. What makes people think m&h aren't lying to them as well. if I find out that M&H are misleading us and the bats are being made in India I'm going to do all I can to affect there sales. Social media is a powerful thing, no longer can companies ignore the consumer no matter how small.
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sigh
Yes, let's be good children and swallow the rubbish we are told and just pay up. How dare we challenge companies on their efforts.
Not really, you don't have to pay up. Nobody is forcing you and you can take your money elsewhere .
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I've already paid@internaltraining, hence the anger
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what is the claim here? that not every single MH bat is made in eng? Isn't that the same as kookaburra and GN?
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what is the claim here? that not every single MH bat is made in eng? Isn't that the same as kookaburra and GN?
I think people are trying to say M&H say every bat is handmade in England but they believe them to be lying. Kookaburra and GN are quite open about their Asian factories. So I believe this more about being lied to than where the bat is actually made
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what is the claim here? that not every single MH bat is made in eng? Isn't that the same as kookaburra and GN?
Yes but GN and kook don't claim to make in the Uk and IJC know that but as they are 100% honest with them that's fine. Now there is no evidence that M&H don't do all the claim at present
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@ItsJustCricket - Agenda? Seriously? I've bought kit from you before!! You might even remember a young Indian lad coming in at the end of the season with our skipper to buy a bat as a gift before he went back to Mumbai - Harrow Newbery/IJC Platinum? Guess who told them to go to you in the first place...
I, along with others, have asked some more than legitimate questions regarding M&H, yet you dodge every question that is asked - just give us a straight answer for once, please!
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best bat i ever had was an MH, dont care if it was made in Alaska ............ it was superb and by far the best bat i have ever had. Although the MH was brilliant the prices are crazy now and i wouldnt buy another if i was playing.
Rob Chambers is head batmaker there ...... or does he not make bats??
Im confused like everyone else.
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someone is going to find a picture of a polar bear out in Alaska with a drawknife and a vice I can feel it in me bones!
:) :)
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alaskan batmaker testing for ping
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ZdikBJTEVGs/T31SD9IqizI/AAAAAAAAAGY/rFbcrR8Vy9k/s1600/Snow-at-Chester-le-Street-008%5B1%5D.jpg)
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@ItsJustCricket - Agenda? Seriously? I've bought kit from you before!! You might even remember a young Indian lad coming in at the end of the season with our skipper to buy a bat as a gift before he went back to Mumbai - Harrow Newbery/IJC Platinum? Guess who told them to go to you in the first place...
I, along with others, have asked some more than legitimate questions regarding M&H, yet you dodge every question that is asked - just give us a straight answer for once, please!
We have answered every question we can as best as we can on a public forum. Just because some questions asked - including some of yours - cannot be answered publicly doesn't mean we are dodging them. We are using them to investigate this issue. Trust me, it's even more of a concern for us as it is for you. I don't understand why you seem more critical of us than M&H despite claiming otherwise.
Having dealt with M&H for four years and visited their place several times in that period, I still believe that they do make all their bats here, hence why we continue to stock them. It seems plausible that a bedroom type seller could import 50 Amplus shaped bats from India (which would be sold at much lower prices obviously - not a bad way to shift an in demand shape to an audience that can't afford an M&H Amplus). That actually seems more plausible than M&H ordering that sort of quantity at that price from India. When I speak to them again I will know more about this issue and will update the thread then.
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I think some of the tone of questions at IJC is a little unfair here.
They are asking some difficult questions to M and H and will make a decision on whether to stock the kit when they hear an answer.
I am not sure what else members can expect them to do.
Certainly Rob on Twitter has said many times he makes the M and H bats from scratch
Sometimes a little patience is required.
Whatever the outcome, my view is that IJC are doing their best here.
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Patience what's Patience in this modern day
Its like unicorns i'm sure they were around sometimes but just a myth now.
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I must also add that we are (probably) the only retailer on here actually sticking our necks out and actively chasing up Millichamp for a decision. Like Paul said, this is even more difficult for us than it is for many on the forum, as we have an incredibly difficult balance to play between transparency with potential customers, and with keeping a good relationship with M&H.
We will let everyone know if we hear absolutely anything which is relevant.
CBD
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im sure MH make their top bats here in UK and press them.
Rob Chambers and an ex batmaker their called Nick Taylor???? confirmed it recently.
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I must also add that we are (probably) the only retailer on here actually sticking our necks out and actively chasing up Millichamp for a decision. Like Paul said, this is even more difficult for us than it is for many on the forum, as we have an incredibly difficult balance to play between transparency with potential customers, and with keeping a good relationship with M&H.
We will let everyone know if we hear absolutely anything which is relevant.
CBD
I thought you were the only retailer on here who stocked them, could be wrong though
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I thought you were the only retailer on here who stocked them, could be wrong though
I think Uzi do, but Chris's use of "on here" was possibly not needed on that post. I'd imagine that we are the only retailer period questioning them about this.
Paul
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im sure MH make their top bats here in UK and press them.
Rob Chambers and an ex batmaker their called Nick Taylor???? confirmed it recently.
Pretty sure Nick has moved on, but Rob still runs the business and makes bats.
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I haven't posted yet in this topic, but surely those who have laid into M&H feel some sort of guilt, they have spent years building up the reputation of the brand for some of us as 'keyboard warriors' to tear that apart in a matter of moments, as when someone from outside of this forum google's Millichamp, this topic will inevitably come up and be available to be seen from non forum members. At the end of the day whether they are doing right or wrong, we shouldn't be tearing this brand apart as it is still someones life as a business, how would you fancy if someone found out a 'rumour' about your own company and then put it on the internet for everyone to see and then you lose business through an act like that? And again opinions are like ( No swearing please), everyone has one!
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I haven't posted yet in this topic, but surely those who have laid into M&H feel some sort of guilt, they have spent years building up the reputation of the brand for some of us as 'keyboard warriors' to tear that apart in a matter of moments
Why should they feel any guilt?
Chris from IJC on Page 13 "the forum will have absolutely no affect on the sales of M&H, and it is slightly deluded to think so"
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I haven't posted yet in this topic, but surely those who have laid into M&H feel some sort of guilt, they have spent years building up the reputation of the brand for some of us as 'keyboard warriors' to tear that apart in a matter of moments, as when someone from outside of this forum google's Millichamp, this topic will inevitably come up and be available to be seen from non forum members. At the end of the day whether they are doing right or wrong, we shouldn't be tearing this brand apart as it is still someones life as a business, how would you fancy if someone found out a 'rumour' about your own company and then put it on the internet for everyone to see and then you lose business through an act like that? And again opinions are like ( No swearing please), everyone has one!
Good post.
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I haven't posted yet in this topic, but surely those who have laid into M&H feel some sort of guilt, they have spent years building up the reputation of the brand for some of us as 'keyboard warriors' to tear that apart in a matter of moments, as when someone from outside of this forum google's Millichamp, this topic will inevitably come up and be available to be seen from non forum members. At the end of the day whether they are doing right or wrong, we shouldn't be tearing this brand apart as it is still someones life as a business, how would you fancy if someone found out a 'rumour' about your own company and then put it on the internet for everyone to see and then you lose business through an act like that? And again opinions are like ( No swearing please), everyone has one!
Then come out with a written statement stating categorically that ALL the bats are made in England in there entirety and any assertions that they may be made in India in part or in whole is simply not true.
How simple is that. They are hurting there own business by not addressing the concerns that have been raised and my concerns are genuine. I PAYED 350GPB FOR SOMETHING THAT I WAS TOLD WAS MADE IN ENGLAND BUT ALLEGEDLY WAS MADE IN INDIA. SAYING ONE THING AND DOING ANOTHER IS CALLED A LIE....PERIOD. There are laws protecting me from such transactions.
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Then come out with a written statement stating categorically that ALL the bats are made in England in there entirety and any assertions that they may be made in India in part or in whole is simply not true.
How simple is that. They are hurting there own business by not addressing the concerns that have been raised and my concerns are genuine. I PAYED 350GPB FOR SOMETHING THAT I WAS TOLD WAS MADE IN ENGLAND BUT ALLEGEDLY WAS MADE IN INDIA. SAYING ONE THING AND DOING ANOTHER IS CALLED A LIE....PERIOD. There are laws protecting me from such transactions.
I'll be looking out in the media for news of your lawsuit against them soon then! ;)
Still haven't seen anything that reasonably indicates that they aren't made in Taunton...
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Only anecdotal evidence atm. Which wouldn't stand up in court but is enough for an investigation.
Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk
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Which is exactly what we are doing - investigating! And as we said, we will let the forum know when we find anything out!
CBD
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Look at the facts.
M&H have only one qualified bat maker Rob Chambers, no one else who works there can make bats, yes they have person who is a qualified carpenter, he does refurbished and repairs that's it.
Tim is responsible for sales and marketing and there is a young trainee who answers the phone , packs parcels etc.
Do the maths , how many bats do M&H sell per year and how many can one person make per year , it won't equal.
Yes Rob makes a few bats inside the work shop but these are very few and normally only bespoke bat experiences.
People might say it's got nothing to do with us who makes the bats and I would agree to a point but I like many others bought into the "hand made in Taunton " BS and spent hundreds close to thousands over the years investing in some thing it wasn't .
I think Paul knows deep down the truth but has been put into a very difficult place and I don't envy he's position , he's a very honest and reliable retailer with good honest values.
Come on M&H come on here and tell us we're all barking up the wrong willow tree !
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Look at the facts.
M&H have only one qualified bat maker Rob Chambers, no one else who works there can make bats, yes they have person who is a qualified carpenter, he does refurbished and repairs that's it.
Tim is responsible for sales and marketing and there is a young trainee who answers the phone , packs parcels etc.
Do the maths , how many bats do M&H sell per year and how many can one person make per year , it won't equal.
Yes Rob makes a few bats inside the work shop but these are very few and normally only bespoke bat experiences.
People might say it's got nothing to do with us who makes the bats and I would agree to a point but I like many others bought into the "hand made in Taunton " BS and spent hundreds close to thousands over the years investing in some thing it wasn't .
I think Paul knows deep down the truth but has been put into a very difficult place and I don't envy he's position , he's a very honest and reliable retailer with good honest values.
Come on M&H come on here and tell us we're all barking up the wrong willow tree !
Welcome to the forum excellent first post.
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Look at the facts.
M&H have only one qualified bat maker Rob Chambers, no one else who works there can make bats, yes they have person who is a qualified carpenter, he does refurbished and repairs that's it.
Tim is responsible for sales and marketing and there is a young trainee who answers the phone , packs parcels etc.
Do the maths , how many bats do M&H sell per year and how many can one person make per year , it won't equal.
Yes Rob makes a few bats inside the work shop but these are very few and normally only bespoke bat experiences.
People might say it's got nothing to do with us who makes the bats and I would agree to a point but I like many others bought into the "hand made in Taunton " BS and spent hundreds close to thousands over the years investing in some thing it wasn't .
I think Paul knows deep down the truth but has been put into a very difficult place and I don't envy he's position , he's a very honest and reliable retailer with good honest values.
Come on M&H come on here and tell us we're all barking up the wrong willow tree !
Well said.
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So, I have a question.
With all these speculations, where does this sit in terms of the law, Sales of Goods Act where things are being described inaccurately (ie. proclaiming they are English made whilst they are not, upon true testimony))?
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I imagine somebody will have to complain first to trading standards or a similar agency and it will need to be investigated to determine whether the marketing bs is deemed to misleading. You'll need proof first to make such a complaint with reasonable justification.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
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This is all starting to get a bit uncomfortable, I think we should all chill and wait to see if anything arises from IJC and until then keep quiet.
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Look at the facts.
M&H have only one qualified bat maker Rob Chambers, no one else who works there can make bats, yes they have person who is a qualified carpenter, he does refurbished and repairs that's it.
Tim is responsible for sales and marketing and there is a young trainee who answers the phone , packs parcels etc.
Do the maths , how many bats do M&H sell per year and how many can one person make per year , it won't equal.
Yes Rob makes a few bats inside the work shop but these are very few and normally only bespoke bat experiences.
People might say it's got nothing to do with us who makes the bats and I would agree to a point but I like many others bought into the "hand made in Taunton " BS and spent hundreds close to thousands over the years investing in some thing it wasn't .
I think Paul knows deep down the truth but has been put into a very difficult place and I don't envy he's position , he's a very honest and reliable retailer with good honest values.
Come on M&H come on here and tell us we're all barking up the wrong willow tree !
true that!
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There is only one way to solve this. At the start of the new moon, we must throw an amplus in the river tone. If it sinks, it is a witch; if it floats....... it is a witch
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-T7Y-NMv6Umk/TpdKKxR9GcI/AAAAAAAADu0/b2AShKlrxdI/s1600/witchfinder%2Bgeneral.png)
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If it sinks - we burn everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Personally having worked in the Gunn and Moore factory and been a sponsored player for Gray Nicolls, Kookaburra over recent years I can't disagree strongly enough with anyone that claims that these bats are not of the highest quality that a club cricketer can receive. Before my 2 years at Kooks and year at Gray Nics, which I have decided to cut a year short to re-join Millichamp, I spent 3 years at Millichamp and received the best bats I have been fortunate enough to use. Back then the softs were not to my taste which was a big reason for me leaving but having seen a lot of the new stuff over the past few years and hearing what Chris and Paul have had to say about them has nullified any fears I may have had. A big reason I believe these bats are the best, particularly for club cricketers is the sheer longevity of bats. During my 3 year span with Kooks and Gray Nics I went through a grand total of 12 bats, which for someone who gets replacements for free was not too much of an issue, but when I was bat less for a weekend or two I was forced to bring out my old M&H master which never failed even until its last day to be the best bat I have ever had. For club cricketers in particular longevity is vital as the longer you have a bat and the more it opens up and the more runs the bat, in theory, should yield and when you are paying over £500 in most cases now a cricket bat is an investment used to increase your enjoyment of the sport we all love. If you are spending that much money on a bat, you want to know that it will pay off in the long run as well as in the short term and from personal experience, the only bat I have had that has lasted more than a season (the master), has ultimately performed better in the second half of it's life. I will be getting my first look at the new range next month and personally can't wait, but I just thought it was worth throwing my tuppence in and trying to quell any rumours that Millichamp and Hall are not one of the finest bat makers in the country.
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Personally having worked in the Gunn and Moore factory and been a sponsored player for Gray Nicolls, Kookaburra over recent years I can't disagree strongly enough with anyone that claims that these bats are not of the highest quality that a club cricketer can receive. Before my 2 years at Kooks and year at Gray Nics, which I have decided to cut a year short to re-join Millichamp, I spent 3 years at Millichamp and received the best bats I have been fortunate enough to use. Back then the softs were not to my taste which was a big reason for me leaving but having seen a lot of the new stuff over the past few years and hearing what Chris and Paul have had to say about them has nullified any fears I may have had. A big reason I believe these bats are the best, particularly for club cricketers is the sheer longevity of bats. During my 3 year span with Kooks and Gray Nics I went through a grand total of 12 bats, which for someone who gets replacements for free was not too much of an issue, but when I was bat less for a weekend or two I was forced to bring out my old M&H master which never failed even until its last day to be the best bat I have ever had. For club cricketers in particular longevity is vital as the longer you have a bat and the more it opens up and the more runs the bat, in theory, should yield and when you are paying over £500 in most cases now a cricket bat is an investment used to increase your enjoyment of the sport we all love. If you are spending that much money on a bat, you want to know that it will pay off in the long run as well as in the short term and from personal experience, the only bat I have had that has lasted more than a season (the master), has ultimately performed better in the second half of it's life. I will be getting my first look at the new range next month and personally can't wait, but I just thought it was worth throwing my tuppence in and trying to quell any rumours that Millichamp and Hall are not one of the finest bat makers in the country.
I think the question here is that If all m&h bats are made in UK at their facility or they import . Their bats can still be of very good quality in either case.
Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk
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Thanks for your post, interesting to see from the viewpoint of a sponsored player/pro. Just to confirm, no one has questioned the performance/quality of the bats - it's the origins that have been put into question and we're all interested to find out more about this (clearly!).
Do you mind us asking what link with M&H/IJC you have?
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Personally having worked in the Gunn and Moore factory and been a sponsored player for Gray Nicolls, Kookaburra over recent years I can't disagree strongly enough with anyone that claims that these bats are not of the highest quality that a club cricketer can receive. Before my 2 years at Kooks and year at Gray Nics, which I have decided to cut a year short to re-join Millichamp, I spent 3 years at Millichamp and received the best bats I have been fortunate enough to use. Back then the softs were not to my taste which was a big reason for me leaving but having seen a lot of the new stuff over the past few years and hearing what Chris and Paul have had to say about them has nullified any fears I may have had. A big reason I believe these bats are the best, particularly for club cricketers is the sheer longevity of bats. During my 3 year span with Kooks and Gray Nics I went through a grand total of 12 bats, which for someone who gets replacements for free was not too much of an issue, but when I was bat less for a weekend or two I was forced to bring out my old M&H master which never failed even until its last day to be the best bat I have ever had. For club cricketers in particular longevity is vital as the longer you have a bat and the more it opens up and the more runs the bat, in theory, should yield and when you are paying over £500 in most cases now a cricket bat is an investment used to increase your enjoyment of the sport we all love. If you are spending that much money on a bat, you want to know that it will pay off in the long run as well as in the short term and from personal experience, the only bat I have had that has lasted more than a season (the master), has ultimately performed better in the second half of it's life. I will be getting my first look at the new range next month and personally can't wait, but I just thought it was worth throwing my tuppence in and trying to quell any rumours that Millichamp and Hall are not one of the finest bat makers in the country.
Fair enough. I take it you didn't see their 'bargain' video. How many storm damaged bats without a guarantee did they offer you?
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Additionally the quality of the finishing and longevity of recent bats. I don't think there is any dispute,over the quality of the 'older' ones
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I think the question here is that If all m&h bats are made in UK at their facility or they import . Their bats can still be of very good quality in either case.
As far as I'm aware M&H are exclusively made in England and allowed me to watch my bat being made, where as Kookaburra just gave me a few crates full of bats and Gray Nics selected for me. With brands such as Gunn and Moore and Gray Nicolls the top of the range bats and pro bats are made in this country with the rest being brought in. Kookaburra are exclusively made in India and smaller brands such as M&H, Newberry and H4L, just to take a few, pride themselves on making bats here and providing a quality and a finish that others can't or won't provide.
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I don't think Gm import bats as far as I'm aware
after being to the factory I saw all ranges in various stages of development
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GN are open and honest about where their bats are made but people are questioning something which I don't think will ever be verified one way or the other
M&H are not going to come out and say different to what they advertise i.e. all handmade in uk and the sceptics will never be happy no matter what answer is given as they won't believe the answer IJC or M&H give so it's a moot argument for me
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As far as I'm aware M&H are exclusively made in England and allowed me to watch my bat being made, where as Kookaburra just gave me a few crates full of bats and Gray Nics selected for me. With brands such as Gunn and Moore and Gray Nicolls the top of the range bats and pro bats are made in this country with the rest being brought in. Kookaburra are exclusively made in India and smaller brands such as M&H, Newberry and H4L, just to take a few, pride themselves on making bats here and providing a quality and a finish that others can't or won't provide.
No one has questioned the origins for GM, GN, Kook etc - they're all upfront and honest so how could we! All we want is to hear the same from M&H - one message from their associates to confirm either way would put this whole thread to rest.
It's a shame more people can't be upfront, it hasn't done the big brands any harm after all
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Thanks for your post, interesting to see from the viewpoint of a sponsored player/pro. Just to confirm, no one has questioned the performance/quality of the bats - it's the origins that have been put into question and we're all interested to find out more about this (clearly!).
Do you mind us asking what link with M&H/IJC you have?
Certainly, I am a M&H sponsored player and an avid viewer of It's just crickets YouTube channel. Don't get me wrong I am not a professional cricketer, just a very lucky young man who has been fortunate enough to play a high standard of cricket and try out a large variety of kit over the years. It's one of those things in that I moved away from Millichamp for a period of time in search of bigger and better things but couldn't find anything half as good. In response to any questions about storm damaged bats, last time I visited the factory the storm damaged bats were left in a basket next to the counter and were clearly labelled and listed at a discounted price.
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So I'm guessing you were asked to post on here... sigh.
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Certainly, I am a M&H sponsored player and an avid viewer of It's just crickets YouTube channel. Don't get me wrong I am not a professional cricketer, just a very lucky young man who has been fortunate enough to play a high standard of cricket and try out a large variety of kit over the years. It's one of those things in that I moved away from Millichamp for a period of time in search of bigger and better things but couldn't find anything half as good. In response to any questions about storm damaged bats, last time I visited the factory the storm damaged bats were left in a basket next to the counter and were clearly labelled and listed at a discounted price.
Yes, they make it clear about the storm damaged bats, but still selling them in the first place is a bit controversial, as most others will just not bother making up a bat if they know the willow being used to make it is storm damaged.
Although they have all the machinery and definitely make some bats at the Taunton workshop (I have seen it happening), I am now left wondering if ALL bats are made there, especially as it's such a huge workload for a small team of bat makers, so this is the issue now being investigated. We are less concerned about those 50 imported Amplus bats now.
Whether it is ever made public or not, our decision on whether or not we continue to stock them should give people a big clue about the final outcome...
Paul
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Although they have all the machinery and definitely make some bats at the Taunton workshop (I have seen it happening), I am now left wondering if ALL bats are made there, especially as it's such a huge workload for a small team of bat makers, so this is the issue now being investigated. We are less concerned about those 50 imported Amplus bats now.
Whether it is ever made public or not, our decision on whether or not we continue to stock them should give people a big clue about the final outcome...
Paul
Thank you Paul, this is effectively what we've all been thinking - glad to know you're on the same page! I'm sure everyone will be keeping an eye out...
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So I'm guessing you were asked to post on here... sigh.
I can honestly say that is not the case, I only moved back to Millichamp yesterday and saw this thread while I was looking for a sneak peek at next seasons kit. Not going to lie, I'm a massive badger and am desperate to see what's coming next season. So having accidentally stumbled across this thread and having read some of the posts I just though I would throw some of my own views out there and see what others made of them. Don't get me wrong I am a big fan of kookaburra in particular but I can honestly say that I feel the best kit provider I have had up to now in cricket must be Millichamp and those who chose not to believe me for whatever reason are missing out big time.
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Yes, they make it clear about the storm damaged bats, but still selling them in the first place is a bit controversial, as most others will just not bother making up a bat if they know the willow being used to make it is storm damaged.
Although they have all the machinery and definitely make some bats at the Taunton workshop (I have seen it happening), I am now left wondering if ALL bats are made there, especially as it's such a huge workload for a small team of bat makers, so this is the issue now being investigated. We are less concerned about those 50 imported Amplus bats now.
Whether it is ever made public or not, our decision on whether or not we continue to stock them should give people a big clue about the final outcome...
Paul
A very valid point and I'm sure that should I ask them personally my comment would be thrown away and disregarded straight away, whether this is because they are hiding something or not I would be incredibly interested to know. There is a lot of evidence pointing to a conclusion that doesn't flatter them in the slightest but it is something that only they can answer. I understand that this is less an argument, less to do with quality and more to do with integrity now, but the only way you will get anything out of them is by offering them an ultimatum and if you are not satisfied with the answer you get making a decision based on if you continue to stock them. But as you yourself have said next years ranges have potential to be big sellers and I would love to see your review of the kit, too see if they are maintaining their high standards.
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I can honestly say that is not the case, I only moved back to Millichamp yesterday and saw this thread while I was looking for a sneak peek at next seasons kit. Not going to lie, I'm a massive badger and am desperate to see what's coming next season. So having accidentally stumbled across this thread and having read some of the posts I just though I would throw some of my own views out there and see what others made of them. Don't get me wrong I am a big fan of kookaburra in particular but I can honestly say that I feel the best kit provider I have had up to now in cricket must be Millichamp and those who chose not to believe me for whatever reason are missing out big time.
I know I've sidetracked things a little with mentioning the 'Storm damage' kerfuffle. Smugly offering a damaged bat with no guarantee for 150 quid was a PR disaster. No wonder the video was removed.
I just thought it was funny you're defending M&H. Surely you can't judge a brand by sponsored players bats especially if there is possible evidence that some of the bats are imported from India. Were you offered any bats in clear shrink-wrapped packaging?
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As an update on this for everyone interested.
We have sent M&H a very searching email which puts in no uncertain terms our desire to find out the truth, and our position on stocking them based on our findings, and their reply to said email.
Once we have a reply, our actions going forward will illuminate our findings far more than our words ever can!
Chris
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When this gets made into the Oscar winning film it deserves to be, can I play the fella in the 'storm damage' video please?
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"A very searching email"
That will get the truth, no doubt.
Nobody has ever lied in an email before...
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"A very searching email"
That will get the truth, no doubt.
Nobody has ever lied in an email before...
You mean I didn't win the Nigerian lottery??
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Now now let's not get too cynical. Would a phone call be better?, well it depends on the relationship with the supplier I guess. Let's hope M&H take it seriously enough to reply, as we hope they would.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
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How else shall we go about it? Surprise random visits to a manufacturer? Maybe hiring a PI?
We are taking the forum claims seriously, but we have to maintain a relationship within the industry.
We have both called them, and for the sake of having everything in writing, also emailed.
We have no obligation or duty to be posting on here in this thread, since, as we have noticed, not many people are going to be buying an M&H from the forum. Yet we want to find out the truth and share it with everyone, but that requires a little faith in us!
CBD
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Send in Bond.
This is now pretty much irrelevant a I suspect a lot of people calling for M&H to clarify wouldn't believe them if they did!
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God, I was only joking! :-[
Now I've finished causing controvosy, please excuse me, I've just had some great news.
I've just inherited over £1million from a Nigerian Prince who chose me at ramdom! Once I've transfered over the £1,000 fee to release my money, I'm going to hit the town with a group of sexy single Russians in the area (all of whom emailed wanting to meet me) that are "up for a good time"
Until tomorrow CBF ;)
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God, I was only joking! :-[
Now I've finished causing controvosy, please excuse me, I've just had some great news.
I've just inherited over £1million from a Nigerian Prince who chose me at ramdom! Once I've transfered over the £1,000 fee to release my money, I'm going to hit the town with a group of sexy single Russians in the area (all of whom emailed wanting to meet me) that are "up for a good time"
Until tomorrow CBF ;)
Sexy single Russian men? :(
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How else shall we go about it? Surprise random visits to a manufacturer? Maybe hiring a PI?
We are taking the forum claims seriously, but we have to maintain a relationship within the industry.
We have both called them, and for the sake of having everything in writing, also emailed.
We have no obligation or duty to be posting on here in this thread, since, as we have noticed, not many people are going to be buying an M&H from the forum. Yet we want to find out the truth and share it with everyone, but that requires a little faith in us!
CBD
I would suggest asking Somerset County Sports their thoughts based on what they've seen delivered to Taunton in recent years if you are looking for a fairly impartial view
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Sexy single Russian men? :(
They never said in their email, only one way to find out! ;)
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I think once you stop taking the word of a supplier, then you are already in a bad place in business.
We will investigate ourselves, and ultimately we have to trust M&H. Like I said, once we hear anything, we will let you know!
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I would suggest asking Somerset County Sports their thoughts based on what they've seen delivered to Taunton in recent years if you are looking for a fairly impartial view
Just looked on their website, not a sniff of M&H......hmmmmm
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Just looked on their website, not a sniff of M&H......hmmmmm
What would be the point in stocking them when the factory's over the road? Even normal people aren't gonna turn down the chance to have a look in the factory if they're there and thinking of buying one.
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What would be the point in stocking them when the factory's over the road? Even normal people aren't gonna turn down the chance to have a look in the factory if they're there and thinking of buying one.
But what if the 'normal people' don't live by or can't get to Taunton. They'll use t'internet wont they.... If they are normal that is
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I've read this a lot but not really commented. Honesty in the industry is one thing that frustrates me. In my early days as a bat maker I dealt with a lot of people claiming to press, handle etc when in truth all they did was sand or sticker up. Does that make the product better or worse, not really but it does potentially give buyers a different view to what's actually happening. Handmade in England or a brand claiming to do everything is a selling point over a sticker up brand and that's why it's used. It annoys me because it's lying to customers and whilst it may not change every buyers mind if they found out the truth, it may change a few.
I seem to recall a topic regarding part mades/cnc'd bats seen in a video. Think it was the video of the guy who went to have a custom made. Cant remember exact details. When a brand becomes too big to fulfill its orders it needs to come up with other means to make the bats quicker, that can either be machine shaping or extra staff. The former is probably easier due to costs (depending on machine) and the lack of training time/issues. Does that make the bats any less appealing, again probably not. This could however explain the volume of bats produced by one man.
I am not here to pass judgement on what a brand does or doesn't do or how they run their business. I'm not going to be buying from them so it doesn't directly Impact on me but I can understand people's frustrations if they spend their hard earned cash on a hand made bat from a uk brand and get a import instead. You wouldn't like to find out your £300k Ferrari was produced in a fiat factory would you?
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Surely no one's ever thought they make all the bats?! The mind boggles at how people do the maths
I must admit I thought the vanilla shapes were TK'd out (their version of the Newbery GT (along with most other fledgling batmaker/manufacturer) was far too identical) and the oversized stuff either done in house or sent to a different maker.
I must admit I'm too far seduced by looks and that's why they're my kit of choice - I still don't think a better range of bats existed since their Amplus/Distinction golden era, and always respected their sense of innovation (Solution and mid-low are pretty special IMO)
Must say, I've nothing but huge amounts of respect for IJC with their recent posts. Throwing some real gamechangers with their approach (which feels bad to say as I know this place is full of very talented and excellent retailers) and sticking their head above the parapet to cut through an industry that's had a fair bit of BS spread about (especially in the last few years).
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Hello all,
Today I got the chance to see the new M&H range for 2016. Tim had driven up from Taunton to show me, and then later today Lord's shops, and since they weren't at the Trade Show the other week, we are officially the first people to have seen the new range - and very impressed we are! Some notes on the new range (and some photos) below!
1. There are two new bats for this year - the MH16 and NC654. They are both exactly the same shape, just different decals, similar to how the International and CK22 were this year. Now comes my favourite part! Average edge size is 50-55mm on these bats and weights start at 2.9! Otherwise the shapes are similar to the CK22 with a fair amount of concaving, massive toe, mid-high middle etc. The MH16 is available in two price points, whilst the NC 654 is available in just one. In another very nice touch, the top bats come with a free end of season bat service from M&H which includes sanding, clean up, re-stickering etc.
2. Otherwise M&H have kept the bats the same, just dropped the International. They have also added a medium wheelie bag, which has a suitcase handle! Fans of our YouTube channel will know how much we love a suitcase handle! It is CK22 branded, but called the Type4 Wheelie bag and at £60 RRP looks to be great value for money!
3. The MH16 and NC 654 gloves are a clever hybrid design, between splits and sausage, as you can see. The NC pads are a bit more traditional than the MH16, with the sharper, pointed, cane, otherwise the new pads are similar and have all the features of a quality top end pad with embossed branding too, which I love. Just further proof of the attention to detail shown by M&H!
We will be handpicking in early December so get your pre-orders in now! The two new bats are absolute freaks, and they will be incredibly popular!
Personally I really like the new decals, and think they will be very popular - the teal and pink is very subtle and classy, whilst the electric yellow is a bit more for the in your face player! Everyone is catered for, a very good range overall I think!
Paul
Hey Paul, any news when M&H are going to launch their 2016 range?
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Hey Paul, any news when M&H are going to launch their 2016 range?
it should be available from early December. We are still undecided on stocking it though...
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Anyone else just received the M&H newsletter?
"Our Lancashire outlet opening this weekend! We are delighted to invite you to the opening of our new Burnley outlet this Saturday, the 21st November. The store will cater for the cricketing purists in Lancashire, Yorkshire and surrounding counties."
M&H soon to be in Burnley it seems! Interesting move
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.???
Well good luck with that M&H
Burnley?
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Surely by saying it is an outlet is meaning that they are opening a second shop to buy from etc. This way the chaps from up north can get their bats from them direct at a more convenient location
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I wonder if they take half the storm damaged stock up there!!
If I've got to go to the job we've got in Leigh next week i'll call in for a look
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its tied into Lowerhouse i would have thought who half the team use them if not more.
Wonder if it near t Stuart Surridge which is in Burnley..
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I wonder if they take half the storm damaged stock up there!!
If I've got to go to the job we've got in Leigh next week i'll call in for a look
Not sure we let you into gods land (BURNLEY) John
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Just had a look on the map Dave, its literally the other side of the M65 from Lowerhouse
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Not sure we let you into gods land (BURNLEY) John
I'll make sure not to look anyone in the eye Dave!!
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one lucky customer does get to win the new mh16 bat. not sure of the exact details but might be worth popping in if anybody is near
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Not really for this thread but I will make my point as Paul's last thread has been locked.
This place has become a bit of a pathetic read lately, due to all the sniping and cock measuring going on. Shame really because there is some good debate in and amongst it.
The stuff aimed at Paul is so low, especially the comment made about him not been a "cricket man" this comes from a fella who I presume is a bone fida cricket man who resorted to DMing me trying to flog some (No Swearing Please) bat with a snake in it. Looks like the non cricket bloke made a better stab at succeeding at that gap in the market mentioned.
Kind regards now
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What's DMing me mean.
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What's DMing me mean.
Direct message
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Not really for this thread but I will make my point as Paul's last thread has been locked.
This place has become a bit of a pathetic read lately, due to all the sniping and cock measuring going on. Shame really because there is some good debate in and amongst it.
The stuff aimed at Paul is so low, especially the comment made about him not been a "cricket man" this comes from a fella who I presume is a bone fida cricket man who resorted to DMing me trying to flog some (No Swearing Please) bat with a snake in it. Looks like the non cricket bloke made a better stab at succeeding at that gap in the market mentioned.
Kind regards now
:o i wont lower myself to the bait ......... that was in 2013 and i openly admitted it on here in a public post that I did a DM and was banned for it.
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:o i wont lower myself to the bait ......... that was in 2013 and i openly admitted it on here in a public post that I did a DM and was banned for it.
If this is the case, let's move.
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Direct message
Ah get it now
Thanks Chris
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Popped into the Burnley shop today
They have a large range of M&H bats and softs in there, (new Nick Compton range catches the eye!) prices are top end of the market tho!
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Popped into the Burnley shop today
They have a large range of M&H bats and softs in there, (new Nick Compton range catches the eye!) prices are top end of the market tho!
I must of missed sommat, NIck Compton, just recalled by England, is now not with Gray Nichols and is now with M and H?
wow
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I must of missed sommat, NIck Compton, just recalled by England, is now not with Gray Nichols and is now with M and H?
wow
Not sure if there has been an official press release but people on here seemed to be of the understanding that now he is back in the England squad, he is back with GN?
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Not sure if that's right, would be surprised if that's the case? (And an absolute killer for M&H...)
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The range is sat in the shop ready.
Very eye catching , will stand out that's for sure!
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Alternative suggestion - as he's been called up, they're waiting til the tour to announce it publicly with some nice photos of Compton showing off the kit in a test match?
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All,
We can confirm we have made the decision not to stock Millichamp and Hall this season.
Thanks,
Chris
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Can I be the first to hold my hand up and applaud your decision
Well done
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Will any further information be forthcoming on exactly why?
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I'm still in talks with Paul about exactly what we can and can't say - so for now I will remain tight lipped, and only say a thank you to the vigilance of the forum which helped us ensure we stick to our philosophy!
CBD
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The picture of his Millichamp range has gone from his Instagram account, that must tell you something surely?
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Even though their origins may be questionable the 2 M&H's I got from Paul are absolute guns! Everyone who has used them thinks so.
Even so, you have your values and you have stuck to them. Well done
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Fair play to ijc,they have a made a tough decision not to sell mh. I for one applaud that.
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Fair play and huge respect for sticking to your guns on this @ItsJustCricket
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Well done IJC
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Well done for sticking to your philosophy.
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Kudos on making a tough decision despite all the criticism on here it's good to see continued contributions as well
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Their bats are made in India? Does it change that fact that my Millchamp & Hall Amplus is a cannon? No, it has no impact on my bat's performance. I love my Millichamp & Hall Amplus. Would I buy another Millichamp & Hall bat? Yes, if the price is right i.e. I find a good (discount) deal.
Having said that, IJC has integrity and that is what I ALWAYS liked about them. Nothing changes for me. No harm, no foul.
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I have to say, I honestly thought you would bottle it and stock them but absolutely fair play to you.
You have taken a proper kicking on this forum on this matter, and I believe that this decision goes a long way to repairing any damage that may have arisen from that.
Top work boys, and all the best for the future
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Ok, What have i missed?
They are having their bats made in india?
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Applaud the decision, particularly as it's a good selling bat and it can't of been an easy decision to make.
I don't think it's an issue about the bat being made in India, from a workmanship or quality perspective, just look at the GN bats. It's more the lack of transparency from the manufacturer. I would probably question the ethics of a company selling something at such a huge markup (I'm assuming these £500 bats weren't costing £250 each to make) and passing it off as something it isn't, even allowing for vague advertising.
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It's more the lack of transparency from the manufacturer.
That's only ever been the issue, regardless of personal opinions on the brand/cost etc
Quote from the front page of the M&H website;
"We hand make every single cricket bat at the workshops in the Somerset County Ground, Taunton. Using traditional methods, our craftsmen ensure that we get the best possible performance out of each cleft of willow."
If this isn't the case, then it's not only totally immoral and misleading but also breaks the Sale of Goods act. I doubt we'll ever get the full details but I do commend @ItsJustCricket for sticking to their philosophy on this. They've personally said that M&H are one of their best sellers (and I'm not surprised with them being in the middle of London, price isn't an issue round these parts for most!) so to take them off their shelves altogether is a big move and commendable.
Guess we'll have to wait and see, maybe the M&H website wording might have a few subtle changes in the coming weeks......
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I don't like what M&H are allegedly doing, obviously. But is it really any different to the whole (nod, wink) 'TK made' thing?
And, actually, I don't think Gray Nicolls are as transparent as some have suggested.
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@Bats_Entertainment - GN are fairly transparent IMO, there's nothing misleading anyway - see link below;
http://www.gray-nicolls.co.uk/InfoPanel.aspx?pageName=BatWorkshops&brand=CKT (http://www.gray-nicolls.co.uk/InfoPanel.aspx?pageName=BatWorkshops&brand=CKT)
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@Bats_Entertainment - GN are fairly transparent IMO, there's nothing misleading anyway - see link below;
[url]http://www.gray-nicolls.co.uk/InfoPanel.aspx?pageName=BatWorkshops&brand=CKT[/url] ([url]http://www.gray-nicolls.co.uk/InfoPanel.aspx?pageName=BatWorkshops&brand=CKT[/url])
Hmm.... http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=36433.0 (http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=36433.0)
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@Bats_Entertainment - GN are fairly transparent IMO, there's nothing misleading anyway - see link below;
[url]http://www.gray-nicolls.co.uk/InfoPanel.aspx?pageName=BatWorkshops&brand=CKT[/url] ([url]http://www.gray-nicolls.co.uk/InfoPanel.aspx?pageName=BatWorkshops&brand=CKT[/url])
You been to a Lord's Test in recent years? And I'm sure there are plenty of pictures of the Robertsbridge workshop on the website?
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Hmm.... [url]http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=36433.0[/url] ([url]http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=36433.0[/url])
@Tom - They don't claim to make all their bats in the UK and they openly claim that they have a factory in Jalandhar - where's the issue?
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You been to a Lord's Test in recent years? And I'm sure there are plenty of pictures of the Robertsbridge workshop on the website?
I'm confused? What's your point?
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I'm confused? What's your point?
While GN never actually state their bats are 'Made in England' in as many words, they certainly like to imply that they are. I bet the majority of people that buy GN bats believe them to be made in England.
At a Lord's Test you often see a GN stand with a (white British) craftsman demonstrating how their bats are made.
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@Tom - They don't claim to make all their bats in the UK and they openly claim that they have a factory in Jalandhar - where's the issue?
I thought the issue as them claiming it as English willow
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I thought the issue as them claiming it as English willow
Ahh good point, my mistake @Tom - whole new kettle of fish that one!!
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While GN never actually state their bats are 'Made in England' in as many words, they certainly like to imply that they are. I bet the majority of people that buy GN bats believe them to be made in England.
If they don't state it then they aren't doing anything wrong? If people want to think that on their own then it's just very good marketing from GN - our issue is with M&H openly saying all their bats are made in their 'Taunton Workshop' when it appears this may not be the case.
At a Lord's Test you often see a GN stand with a (white British) craftsman demonstrating how their bats are made.
Would love to know what difference that makes! Lets get this thread back to IJC/M&H yeah...
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Would love to know what difference that makes! Lets get this thread back to IJC/M&H yeah...
It strongly implies that that bats are made in England?
The problem is M&H aren't as good at deceit as GN?
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How does it?? Are they going to fly one of their Indian bat makers over just for a demo at Lords to keep you happy?
Lets lay it out;
- M&H state that they make their bats purely in the UK. It's unconfirmed at the moment, but it appears this may not be the case.
- GN state nothing and have pictures of 3 separate 'bat workshops' on their website. This would imply that bats are made at all 3 of their 'bat workshops' (UK/AUS/IND).
Who's the deceiver?
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good to be honest Bats......it couldn't be clearer with regard to GN, everything is there for anyone who is interested to see
there's no comparison
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Not to play devils advocate here but before becoming a forum member I assumed that GN made their bats in the UK and that my GN Oblivion 5 Star was made in the UK.
The only thing that made me question this was when I looked up their workshop on Google maps and street view the size of the workshop seemed way too small for the amount of bats they produce.
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The only thing that made me question this was when I looked up their workshop on Google maps and street view the size of the workshop seemed way too small for the amount of bats they produce.
Once upon a time their bats were all made there.
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How does it?? Are they going to fly one of their Indian bat makers over just for a demo at Lords to keep you happy?
Lets lay it out;
- M&H state that they make their bats purely in the UK. It's unconfirmed at the moment, but it appears this may not be the case.
- GN state nothing and have pictures of 3 separate 'bat workshops' on their website. This would imply that bats are made at all 3 of their 'bat workshops' (UK/AUS/IND).
Who's the deceiver?
I smell a TK apologist.
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I thought the issue as them claiming it as English willow
Can't believe the guy actually said that !!
People reading this conversation later on are totally gonna love this lad [emoji23]
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It strongly implies that that bats are made in England?
The problem is M&H aren't as good at deceit as GN?
And then came this one. Damn !!
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Had enough now, the offending comments have been removed and a warning issued. This topic is locked for the time being.