Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Latest Matches => Topic started by: FattusCattus on April 12, 2015, 10:19:47 AM
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What do we reckon the line-up is going to be then?
Not what we WANT it to be, but what the selectors will actually pick?
I reckon:
Cook
Trott
Balance
Bell
Root
Stokes
Buttler
Broad
Tredwell
Wood
Anderson
Hmmm - long tail that!
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You think they will pick Wood?
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Well, the evidence of their selections in St Kitts - including the favouritism shown in giving some players three bites of the cherry - implies that it will be:
Cook
Trott
Ballance
Bell
Root
Stokes
Buttler
AN Other (Rashid, Plunkett or Jordan)
Broad
Tredwell
Anderson
That said, I would not be hugely shocked were Lyth to open and Trott replace Ballance at Three. Either way, I can imagine that there will be a lot of tee-d off Yorkshire fans tomorrow afternoon as the majority of our players get stiffed as drinks waiters.
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Well, the evidence of their selections in St Kitts - including the favouritism shown in giving some players three bites of the cherry - implies that it will be:
Cook
Trott
Ballance
Bell
Root
Stokes
Buttler
AN Other (Rashid, Plunkett or Jordan)
Broad
Tredwell
Anderson
That said, I would not be hugely shocked were Lyth to open and Trott replace Ballance at Three. Either way, I can imagine that there will be a lot of tee-d off Yorkshire fans tomorrow afternoon as the majority of our players get stiffed as drinks waiters.
Especially when you look at our batting line up today? Pyrah at 4, followed by Leaning, Hodd and Bresnan
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Reports of the StKitts matches were that Rashid was bowling way too many 4 balls for test cricket, and that Plunko didn't do much with the ball on these flat decks and Wood did.
Personally I'd have Rashid in for Wood and mix the attack up a little.
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Especially when you look at our batting line up today? Pyrah at 4, followed by Leaning, Hodd and Bresnan
Its difficult, isn't it - great for the lads getting to tour and all, but I strongly suspect that the best spinner inthe country will be left out for Kent's second XI trundler, the highest run scorer in the country last year dropped in favour of a flaky bag of bu11sh1t who isn;t even an opener and the quickest bowler left out in favour of another medium pacer. Bairstow, incidentally, shone in the tour game but that won't count in his favour either...
That said, were it not for the presence of Moeen Ali, I'd be tempted to say that there still isn't a single Worcestershire player I'd take over the equivalent Yorkshire lad today...
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Reports of the StKitts matches were that Rashid was bowling way too many 4 balls for test cricket,
His figures were more or less the same as Tredders so there cannae have been that many, and he is a leggie coming in cold so will take some time to get properly loose...
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Brooks, meanwhile, is on one of his streaks I think...
...must be p155ed that England ignored him...
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I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped balance either completely or down the order to accommodate trott. Would be consistent with previous ECB thinking.
Personally think they need to play rashid and see what he can do.
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How come if Ali is fit enough to be playing for Worcestershire today hes not gone to the West Indies? did his injury heal quicker than expected?
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Apparently Ali is hoping to pass this game as a fitness test and then travel to windies to play in test no.2.
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Are there any terrestrial highlights for these tests?
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West Indies: Devon Smith, Kraigg Brathwaite, Darren Bravo, Marlon Samuels, Shivnarine Chanderpaul, Jermaine Blackwood, Denesh Ramdin (capt & wk), Jason Holder, Jerome Taylor, Kemar Roach, Sulieman Benn.
England: Alastair Cook (capt), Jonathan Trott, Gary Ballance, Joe Root, Ian Bell, Ben Stokes, Jos Buttler (wk), Chris Jordan, Stuart Broad, James Tredwell. James Anderson.
so the team eng pick is, once again, not the one I would pick.
Nice to see the Kent second team bowler getting a game in our test match team!!
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I think that's slightly harsh on Tredwell, thought he was bowling ok in the warm ups - I know it was against a distinctly average side but still was picking up wickets.
Should be nowhere near the side in fairness, but if hes picking up wickets who cares ! And who is going to really replace him ?
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tredwell and trott
what an exciting brand of decision-making emerging - always breaking boundaries. #SameOldSameOld
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tredwell and trott
what an exciting brand of decision-making emerging - always breaking boundaries. #SameOldSameOld
Whats wrong with trott? He's pure class.
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What more can Lyth do to get in?
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I think that's slightly harsh on Tredwell, thought he was bowling ok in the warm ups - I know it was against a distinctly average side but still was picking up wickets.
Should be nowhere near the side in fairness, but if hes picking up wickets who cares ! And who is going to really replace him ?
who else - well we can start with Adam Riley - on the basis that Kent think he is better.
then we can think about any other spinner...! Perhaps Rashid, who was the leading champo spinner
oh and trott has gone for 0 :(
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Time for trott to go home with burn out yet?
Don't see ballance lasting too long either
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o god trotty....
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Oh dear.. Here we go
Very very very lucky Cook... Full ball, outside off.. Nicked...
Cooks not going to last long if the wi bowlers get their act together. Unfortunately they look wayward so he might get a few even though he's just proved he's still got his massive issue
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Nearly Cook too!
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I don't understand Moores line of thinking with selection here. It's been proven that his "safe" selections don't work and that we need to pursue new blood so why do it again here with Trott and Tredwell.
Trott going proves my point. I am sure tredwell will be fairly economical. Not looking to the future or using assets they should be....
#MooresOut
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Trott out 3rd ball v Windies. KP scores 100 vs Oxford MMCU. Hmmmm.
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Trott out 3rd ball v Windies. KP scores 100 vs Oxford MMCU. Hmmmm.
You missed out Cook bring really really lucky with his usual nick
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As much as it is great to see Trott back in the team, how can they possibly justify that Trott is a better pick in front of Lyth? On what basis have they said that Trott is in better form that Lyth or more capable of opening instead of him?
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As much as it is great to see Trott back in the team, how can they possibly justify that Trott is a better pick in front of Lyth? On what basis have they said that Trott is in better form that Lyth or more capable of opening instead of him?
What were their avgs last year?
Trott has proven test quality and batsvatb3 (which in theory means he is quite capable of opening)
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Give Trott a chance, don't see many other players with close to 4000 test runs around we can choose from! Was a decent ball too tbf, sometimes early you nick one against the new ball. Hoping he can make a good comeback, England is definitely a better side with him in.
As for Tredwell, decent bowler but don't see the point of picking him, especially with Stokes in the team to provide bowling backup if Rashid wasn't going well. His selection based heavily on still trying to find a Swann replacement I suspect.
Also a little disappointed to see Jordan playing ahead of Wood.
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Well it's a brave new era so far!
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West Indies: Devon Smith, Kraigg Brathwaite, Darren Bravo, Marlon Samuels, Shivnarine Chanderpaul, Jermaine Blackwood, Denesh Ramdin (capt & wk), Jason Holder, Jerome Taylor, Kemar Roach, Sulieman Benn.
England: Alastair Cook (capt), Jonathan Trott, Gary Ballance, Joe Root, Ian Bell, Ben Stokes, Jos Buttler (wk), Chris Jordan, Stuart Broad, James Tredwell. James Anderson.
so the team eng pick is, once again, not the one I would pick.
Nice to see the Kent second team bowler getting a game in our test match team!!
Lot of "all rounders" in that side resulting in a long tail...
For me Plunkett for Jordan, Rashid for Tredwell and Lyth for Trott would've been a better shout.
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What were their avgs last year?
Trott has proven test quality and batsvatb3 (which in theory means he is quite capable of opening)
Lyth averaged 68 with 1,500 runs
Trott averaged 48 with 620 runs
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Lyth averaged 68 with 1,500 runs
Trott averaged 48 with 620 runs
Ouch.. Didn't realise it was that big a gap. Trott at three then.
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Ouch.. Didn't realise it was that big a gap. Trott at three then.
Rather than the guy with 1390 @ 70 ncluding test match opposition...?
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Always seem pointless picking so many bowlers, as some will inevitably end up doing little.
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Rather than the guy with 1390 @ 70 ncluding test match opposition...?
Trott better than balance, surely you're not saying he's better?? Ballance has feasted on crap so far, let's judge him when he's played some proper teams
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Trott better than balance, surely you're not saying he's better?? Ballance has feasted on crap so far, let's judge him when he's played some proper teams
And you won't be able to do that if you drop him......
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And you won't be able to do that if you drop him......
Can't just keep people in if someone else is better (or has a record to suggest he's better)
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Hahahahahahaha
Bye bye Cook, well batted. Full ball again
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This could get very fun. Good job cooks got a nice family to cheer him up.
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Off peg gone, please Bell get a ton :(
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No,bellisums today please, Team ECB need you to ton up or the WImare into the tail
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These guys need to go back to spending their own money on bats - usually leads to at least a few good innings right after.
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as a fan I don't know whether to laugh or cry, I might do both
I suppose someone has already asked why we have not picked Lyth and at least given the dude a chance.Which does beg the question 'how many runs do I need to get picked your highness?' '1500'..'.I got that last season'..'.sorry I meant 2500'
:o
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as a fan I don't know whether to laugh or cry, I might do both
I suppose someone has already asked why we have not picked Lyth and at least given the dude a chance.Which does beg the question 'how many runs do I need to get picked your highness?' '1500'..'.I got that last season'..'.sorry I meant 2500'
:o
You have to laugh really.
Great point on the what do you have to do point though
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From the TMS text updates I assume Bell is wearing a stemguard?
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From the TMS text updates I assume Bell is wearing a stemguard?
Yep
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I wish boycott would refrain from commenting on depression.
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I wish boycott would refrain from commenting on depression.
Still better than Bob Willis. His listeners know all about depression...
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You have to laugh really.
Great point on the what do you have to do point though
I'm finding it very hard to work out how a player can be thru the door after banging it down and still not get picked.Trott is an excellent player and all best wishes are with him to continue in his career but Lyth is a proper opener and deserves a go.If there is no space in the other positions Trott should of waited until there is a slot available.
I cannot see how you can drop Ballance-he had a great year last year and deserves a chance to see if he can do it against the better teams.We cannot go back to the back old days and pick 8 top order batsman because we are afraid to lose.
For what it's worth I think Cook needs an antidote to his style for us- i.e. a more aggressive opener to bat with him.... Trott and Cook are similar and that may not work long term.
England......well....we are at a cross roads..there is so much wrong I don't know where to start.Still love the team thou......
they say love is blind :)
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Blimey! I'm not sure I want to know if there are TV highlights of this!
I fancy Root and Stokes to make runs though!
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Moores has learnt nothing from the World Cup experience. Safe side with 3 same speed fast/medium bowlers. Lyth deserved a chance, especially against what is said to be a very poor side. If he doesn't do well then we know what Trott can do and could then come in if needed. Tredwell is a surprise after being overlooked all through the World Cup and Rashid is a better long term bet.
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Moores and Cook are so predictable with their selections it makes me sick! Can you imagine the Aussies picking an economical unthreatening off spinner over a decent leggie who can bat? They are just walking into a barrage of criticism by this negative mindset. Grrr!
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I'm finding it very hard to work out how a player can be thru the door after banging it down and still not get picked.Trott is an excellent player and all best wishes are with him to continue in his career but Lyth is a proper opener and deserves a go.If there is no space in the other positions Trott should of waited until there is a slot available.
I cannot see how you can drop Ballance-he had a great year last year and deserves a chance to see if he can do it against the better teams.We cannot go back to the back old days and pick 8 top order batsman because we are afraid to lose.
For what it's worth I think Cook needs an antidote to his style for us- i.e. a more aggressive opener to bat with him.... Trott and Cook are similar and that may not work long term.
England......well....we are at a cross roads..there is so much wrong I don't know where to start.Still love the team thou......
they say love is blind :)
I'd agree on giving balance time IF Imbeleived that when he fails vs NZ he'd be dropped.eng are stubborn and as we know, just keep,players (unless you are KP)
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I haven't watched Cook bat for a while but something looked badly amiss with his footwork, overly fidgety or something, can't put my finger on it. I really think Trott has been worked out, Jordan shouldn't be hear the team, the English side just looks unbalanced.
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Moores has been doing a rain dance to save the test already 😜
Poor shot by Ballance
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Wicker then rain, classic England.
Wonder if boycs still thinks the decision to bowl first was daft?
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WHY CAN'T OUR PLAYERS ACTUALLY HIT THE BALL OFF THE SQUARE.
we will never win when we have such a one paced batting "unit".
arggh.
you need stroke players at the top of the order to put pressure on the bowling team.
this is abysmal. and expected.
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Ballance out for 10 off 46 balls, it's like the world cup all over again :-[
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England fail. While bopara is in India bowling well for the second game on the trott....... pun intended.
Atleast our two test worthy players are at the crease now.
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It's turning already it ok we got Tredwell oh dear!!!
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Flaccid stuff from England. It's like watching a deflated balloon deflate even more. At this point in time we are looking at the worst team in Test Cricket playing. And it isn't the home one. Bangladesh will be fancying a nibble...
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WHY CAN'T OUR PLAYERS ACTUALLY HIT THE BALL OFF THE SQUARE.
we will never win when we have such a one paced batting "unit".
arggh.
you need stroke players at the top of the order to put pressure on the bowling team.
this is abysmal. and expected.
the players are scared of getting out. Scared of the commentators waiting to pick apart their techniques, scared of being dropped, scared of failing, scared or Sir Geoff,Scared full stop.
Once this grips a side it's like a disease you cannot get rid of.
Is that an excuse for England...No it is not.
Please someone disagree with me because it's plainly in front of our eyes.
We have to have someone force a change of mindset and to hell with the timid stuff. How ? I'd be interested to hear. This coach needs to go I do know that.
No -one can tell me we don't have the talent in this country-I simply refuse to believe it :)
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the players are scared of getting out. Scared of the commentators waiting to pick apart their techniques, scared of being dropped, scared of failing, scared or Sir Geoff,Scared full stop.
Once this grips a side it's like a disease you cannot get rid of.
Is that an excuse for England...No it is not.
Please someone disagree with me because it's plainly in front of our eyes.
We have to have someone force a change of mindset and to hell with the timid stuff. How ? I'd be interested to hear. This coach needs to go I do know that.
No -one can tell me we don't have the talent in this country-I simply refuse to believe it :)
Do we have the talent though? It's ok wanting aggressive cricket but you can't just slog like in odi's/t20's
Colly has just scored 100 and taken pegs, so if he's able to still command a game like that is there talent around of good enough quality?
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Home Alone Phil: England are playing village cricket at the moment.
the above from BBC TXT.
maybe we don't Procricketer, maybe we don't......
to be honest with regard to Colly, having watching him all his career for us I've nothing but admiration for the guy.
I just think now we might as well pick Wood, Lyth and Rashid and just give it a go. That's all I want..to have a go, and if we fail fine...just not sit around like ducks in a line waiting to be shot.
We have to change the momentum some how. We've all been there is a club game, bowlers get on top and the whole game goes like that.Someone puts bat to ball for half an hour and at least you have something.....
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Home Alone Phil: England are playing village cricket at the moment.
the above from BBC TXT.
maybe we don't Procricketer, maybe we don't......
to be honest with regard to Colly, having watching him all his career for us I've nothing but admiration for the guy.
I just think now we might as well pick Wood, Lyth and Rashid and just give it a go. That's all I want..to have a go, and if we fail fine...just not sit around like ducks in a line waiting to be shot.
We have to change the momentum some how. We've all been there is a club game, bowlers get on top and the whole game goes like that.Someone puts bat to ball for half an hour and at least you have something.....
Or
You're out even quicker. I do get your point and agree things need to change. Sending in biffers though isn't the answer, they have to be able to be test match batsmen. Buttler is exciting in odi/t20 but he's not good enough for tests, no point for example having more like him in there. Imagine the field day a good attack would have!
It's a balance, we don't have the right blend without kp
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Usual excuses to come out to the England camp I reckon:
"Undercooked"
"Not played test match since summer"
"Not enough tour games"
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Or
You're out even quicker. I do get your point and agree things need to change. Sending in biffers though isn't the answer, they have to be able to be test match batsmen. Buttler is exciting in odi/t20 but he's not good enough for tests, no point for example having more like him in there. Imagine the field day a good attack would have!
It's a balance, we don't have the right blend without kp
Don't be too quick to judge Butler,he's only played 3 tests! I think he's exactly the kind of player England need, one who looks to dominate and stamp their authority on the opposition.
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Don't be too quick to judge Butler,he's only played 3 tests! I think he's exactly the kind of player England need, one who looks to dominate and stamp their authority on the opposition.
That's kp
Buttler is zero feet, 100% hands.. Crap for test cricket unless it's a flat pancake or Bangladesh . Wide of off stump, full, swing away, few slips, gully and catching on the drive.. Will have him every time
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That's kp
Buttler is zero feet, 100% hands.. Crap for test cricket unless it's a flat pancake or Bangladesh . Wide of off stump, full, swing away, few slips, gully and catching on the drive.. Will have him every time
KP?
Just chuck a left arm spinner on or maybe Siddle if you're Australian.
Everyone has their weakness.
The best way for Buttler to become text quality I'd to play tests.
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What were their avgs last year?
Trott 45, Lyth 68...
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Root had a gm helmet in wc but now a masuri with a stem guard.
The benefits of stem guards sold to them?
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What did they average in the A games in South Africa.
Trott or Lyth
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What did they average in the A games in South Africa.
Trott or Lyth
Trott 132
Lyth 36
From 2 tests.
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Brilliant stuff from root and bell
Yes its easier against an older ball but they have looked to score and fot the momentum back
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Ton up for bell.
Gutted to see root fall. But atleast stokes has continued in a positive manner.
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Ben Stokes 50 :D
<3 the bloke!
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Batted Mr Stokes - hope this is the beginning of a renaissance for the man!
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Stokes showing his class and Ian Bell playing the perfect Ian Bell knock - I quite like the look of these two together. Having an aggressor like Stokes make it easier for Bell to accumulate in that easy flowing style.
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Quality from these two and of course Root.
Amazing how you can take control of a game when someone is capable of scoring at a run a ball! If only we could locate another player capable of doing that rather than the top 3 scratching around building pressure on themselves
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i think stokes will a top international player if they learn to trust him and bat him up the order in ODI
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Absolute jaffa from Roach - nothing Bell could do about that!
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Ali may struggle to get back in if presumably fit for the next game by the looks of things.
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I am just happy that test cricket is back!!!!
Rooooooot!
I have always had my faith in Stokes.
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Ali may struggle to get back in if presumably fit for the next game by the looks of things.
Drop Tredwell.
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Nice knock by Bell
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Ian Bell class again!! Easily our best test player since 2009!
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He still hasn't done much against good attack though has he? Aussies at home last time was his best, but they weren't all that then. Never done much against safrica or in the subcontinent.
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Amazing how you can take control of a game when someone is capable of scoring at a run a ball! If only we could locate another player capable of doing that rather than the top 3 scratching around building pressure on themselves
We have located one - he scored about 1500 first class runs at the top of the order last season...and was carrying drinks so that Trott could restrap his pads four times in three balls then nick off and sulk!
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Watching Ben Stokes bat last night was the first time I have been excited by a England player in a long time!
Bell's knock was class, played the situation very well.
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yes it was good after a poor start,Root is a super player, he got the momentum back for us which is what everyone has been on about in earlier posts(above)
Lyth should of had first go after his season, Trott is (or definatley was) quality,no one knows if he will be back as good as he was until the Ashes, or NZ start roughing him up.
Presuming thou Lyth does not play a game anyone else think if Rashid comes in for Treadwell and Wood comes in for Jordan the whole side looks better and you are not losing anything in the batting?
or is it just me? :)
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yes it was good after a poor start,Root is a super player, he got the momentum back for us which is what everyone has been on about in earlier posts(above)
Lyth should of had first go after his season, Trott is (or definatley was) quality,no one knows if he will be back as good as he was until the Ashes, or NZ start roughing him up.
Presuming thou Lyth does not play a game anyone else think if Rashid comes in for Treadwell and Wood comes in for Jordan the whole side looks better and you are not losing anything in the batting?
or is it just me? :)
I think that there is a bit of 'you're a better player out of the team' in that analysis.
Cook probably messed himself when he saw they'd picked a legspinner. I'd bet he hasn't a scooby how to captain them (no modern English captains could - even Gale had issues with him until Dizzy had a word).
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I think that there is a bit of 'you're a better player out of the team' in that analysis.
Cook probably messed himself when he saw they'd picked a legspinner. I'd bet he hasn't a scooby how to captain them (no modern English captains could - even Gale had issues with him until Dizzy had a word).
I see that but surely that would only apply for someone who has played a lot of test cricket? Rashid and Wood have not,hardly at all.
They are better players out when they have hardly played at all? how do we know if they don't get a chance to play.....
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Have you seen Wood play?
At the moment he's the hyped young bolter. How does Jordan become a better player if he's in and out of the team? He needs a chance to play in different conditions - as he's obviously got serious talent.
Rashid will bowl filth every over. This doesn't fit in the game plan of using a spinner to contain. His place on this tour feels more like a reward for a good season last year, rather than any serious intent to play him.
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Have you seen Wood play?
At the moment he's the hyped young bolter. How does Jordan become a better player if he's in and out of the team? He needs a chance to play in different conditions - as he's obviously got serious talent.
Rashid will bowl filth every over. This doesn't fit in the game plan of using a spinner to contain. His place on this tour feels more like a reward for a good season last year, rather than any serious intent to play him.
And there lies the problem! What's the point of "rewarding a good season" by taking a player on tour as a drinks carrier.
Surely it'd be more beneficial to actually play championship cricket back home, rather than sitting watching England and taking the drinks on every few overs...
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Completely agree. Don't rock the boat and upset the exciting new brand of cricket, which is the same as it's been for a good few years now.
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Have you seen Wood play?
At the moment he's the hyped young bolter. How does Jordan become a better player if he's in and out of the team? He needs a chance to play in different conditions - as he's obviously got serious talent.
Rashid will bowl filth every over. This doesn't fit in the game plan of using a spinner to contain. His place on this tour feels more like a reward for a good season last year, rather than any serious intent to play him.
I have seen Wood play, and Rashid. I see your viewpoint now...actually wickets in the Windies we know no longer favour pace, hav'nt done for years. So I thought England may genuinely select Rashid.
Having seen yesterdays play two spinners towards the end of the match may well be more use than medium pace.
If Rashid gets selected as 'reward for a good season to carry the drinks' Tredwell get's reward(a tour place) for having a poor season and being loaned out to another County I think i'm lost in the selection muddle. Maybe they should scrap Championship cricket.
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I don't agree with England's approach from my arm chair. I agree that Rashid should get a game but all the obstacles in his way make his selection completely fruitless. He is essentially PR 'We are picking exciting new players' then completely reverting to type.
Tredwell could well have been selected because he's a good egg. And that matters a lot in Cook's England... Not that he hasn't been messed around. Good in ODIs, not a sniff of a WC game, pants at FC cricket for a few years, have a Test. Nuts. Good analysis from Vaughan that. He must have cribbed it from someone else... ;)
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I don't understand how England seem to think it is more useful for a young (ish) player to carry drinks, than to be playing competitive cc cricket.
And that's even forgetting their habit of actually braking players with tinkering.
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Bring in Robert Key as skipper. He would get the first round in and cheer up these miserable buggers. The refreshing thing about Roooooot is .....The smile on his face.
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well said
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I don't understand how England seem to think it is more useful for a young (ish) player to carry drinks, than to be playing competitive cc cricket.
They probably don't, but what do you suggest as an alternative? Only take 11 players?
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They probably don't, but what do you suggest as an alternative? Only take 11 players?
I sometimes think yes during the English season. If someone gets injured they should be able to use a local as a sub-fielder.
If they require a replacement then he can be over within 10 hours anyway.
So what if they haven't been out there a while, they aren't exactly getting decent warm up practice anyway, might as well be playing CC as well as warming the bench.
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I watched a bit of Rashid on Sky last year in the CC and I thought he did a very good job. Playing against Durham and Notts he bowled well. Unless you are Shane Warne, most leg spinners will bowl a bad ball. You are picking him to take wickets though, leave the containing stuff to Tredders. I reckon once Ali is in they might pick him and drop a batter - Trott perhaps, if they need to chase the series. Alternatively drop Jordan and bolster the batting if they have a series lead and the deck looks like turning.
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I sometimes think yes during the English season. If someone gets injured they should be able to use a local as a sub-fielder.
If they require a replacement then he can be over within 10 hours anyway.
So what if they haven't been out there a while, they aren't exactly getting decent warm up practice anyway, might as well be playing CC as well as warming the bench.
Windies and SA are pretty timezone friendly. The Windies surfaces don't appear to take much getting use to and they use Dukes balls (albeit slightly different types). It's as close to home from home as an England team will get.
Bit fo shame really, use to be good viewing watching the ball fly around in the Windies off a quick deck. What killed all the pace out of the decks?
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I wouldn't only take 11, but definitely would only take people I could see picking.
Is Wood going to get any chance of a game in this series?
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If Ali comes back into the 2nd test then i'd send Rashid home to play some cricket as i cant see him getting a game even if they played two spinners. Could argue that for a few of the squad too, adding Ali takes them up to 17 players on tour which seems excessive to me
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Cook finished then?? He's still got his technical issues and is now being exposed by second rate WI bowling.. Time to 'move on' from Cook
Yours
Man outside of cricket
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Cook finished then?? He's still got his technical issues and is now being exposed by second rate WI bowling.. Time to 'move on' from Cook
This test showed up all the problems of English cricket within 90 minutes. At the toss, England left out the leading batsman in county cricket last year, a specialist opener, for a non specialist who had scored roughly half the runs, had gone home ill on his last international tour and had, lets face it, under performed for the preceding 18 months. They also left out the leading spinner in county cricket last year for a guy who could not even get a game for the sixth best team in division two.
Opening with Trott, you had Ali Cook - so far from his last international century that the photos are in sepia, and the possessor of a technique more thoroughly worked out than Einsteins Theorem of General Relativity. To cap it all, at three you had the latest recipient of Team England's Drinks Waiter strategy - GAry BAllance, who spent five months as a fielding reserve for the one day side before being thrown in to the cauldron to bat himself out of form.
Common sense is long gone!
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I think that's summed it up :o
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This test showed up all the problems of English cricket within 90 minutes. At the toss, England left out the leading batsman in county cricket last year, a specialist opener, for a non specialist who had scored roughly half the runs, had gone home ill on his last international tour and had, lets face it, under performed for the preceding 18 months. They also left out the leading spinner in county cricket last year for a guy who could not even get a game for the sixth best team in division two.
Opening with Trott, you had Ali Cook - so far from his last international century that the photos are in sepia, and the possessor of a technique more thoroughly worked out than Einsteins Theorem of General Relativity. To cap it all, at three you had the latest recipient of Team England's Drinks Waiter strategy - GAry BAllance, who spent five months as a fielding reserve for the one day side before being thrown in to the cauldron to bat himself out of form.
Common sense is long gone!
Covered it all quite well
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Hoping Stokes can get a ton in the morning session, just hope with them sending out Tredwell and him ending up facing 1 ball last night doesnt get Ben bogged down in the morning..
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This test showed up all the problems of English cricket within 90 minutes. At the toss, England left out the leading batsman in county cricket last year, a specialist opener, for a non specialist who had scored roughly half the runs, had gone home ill on his last international tour and had, lets face it, under performed for the preceding 18 months. They also left out the leading spinner in county cricket last year for a guy who could not even get a game for the sixth best team in division two.
Opening with Trott, you had Ali Cook - so far from his last international century that the photos are in sepia, and the possessor of a technique more thoroughly worked out than Einsteins Theorem of General Relativity. To cap it all, at three you had the latest recipient of Team England's Drinks Waiter strategy - GAry BAllance, who spent five months as a fielding reserve for the one day side before being thrown in to the cauldron to bat himself out of form.
Common sense is long gone!
Dont disagree with parts of it but a number of guys in county cricket with modest FC records became great England players - Vaughan, Tresco to name two. Plenty of guys in FC cricket with great averages didn't make it at test level. Lyth was unlucky but I for one was happy to see Trott back in the line up. Ignoring for one moment the last 18 months and in Trott you have a solid test performer who probably should of been opener when Strauss retired. If you can bat 3 then you can open, many times you are in early so it's hardly a leap to open. Yep a lot has gone on in the last 18 months but he got a good one yesterday and has scored runs on the Lions tour, which is a more recent benchmark for the two players.
Cook has always had a issue getting forward, everyone knows that but it didn't stop him scoring runs for the past decade. He will again I'm sure and we forget the working over Pakistan gave him in 2010 before he scored millions of runs in the following 12 months. Ballance had a great summer and deserves his test spot on merit.
Tredwell is a steady performer in ODI cricket for England and is probably seen as a safe pair of hands. I would of played Rashid instead of Jordan personally.
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that "If you can bat at 3, you can open" comment is utter tripe. Sorry Nick.
Ponting never opened - and would not be a natural opener.
Dravid was a terrible opener
If you are an opener you can bat at three, but that isn't the same.
The fact is that Trott was picked because he was reliable. But the choice should have been between him and Ballance. Based on the tour party selected, Lyth should have been Cook's opening partner.
As for Treadwell he shouldn't be on the tour at all. Panasar is there as the best spinner in the country, has played 50 games and would be a better option - both attacking and defending. He is just another difficult character to manage, so the ECB wont pick him.
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that "If you can bat at 3, you can open" comment is utter tripe. Sorry Nick.
Agree to disagree - if the opener nicks off first ball of the game then the number 3 is pretty much opening! Not played as high a standard as many but I regularly batted 3 and came in early on with the new ball flying around, I don't think it's any different. It's a bonus if you get in after 10 overs and the new ball bowlers have finished. Having said that, not totally convinced about Ballance going from 5 at Yorkshire to 3 for England but it has worked so far.
Ponting never opened - and would not be a natural opener.
Ponting had the benefit of Langer and Hayden putting on a nice 50 partnership for most of his career.
The fact is that Trott was picked because he was reliable. But the choice should have been between him and Ballance. Based on the tour party selected, Lyth should have been Cook's opening partner.
We didn't pick another opener so I assume Trott was the 3rd opener option all along.
As for Treadwell he shouldn't be on the tour at all. Panasar is there as the best spinner in the country, has played 50 games and would be a better option - both attacking and defending. He is just another difficult character to manage, so the ECB wont pick him.
Totally agree - we should be picking Panasar!
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Cook has always had a issue getting forward, everyone knows that but it didn't stop him scoring runs for the past decade. He will again I'm sure and we forget the working over Pakistan gave him in 2010 before he scored millions of runs in the following 12 months.
To be fair the Pakistani bowlers were bowling quick off 15 yards ;)
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Oh Benny boy! :(
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Real Shame
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'World class' Buttler goes in test cricket for a duck,, shock horror he nicks off outside off stump.
Simply not good enough in proper cricket. Only suited to white ball stuff where you just throw the bat through the line
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Buttler couldn't handle the pressue of dot balls
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Collapse is on - 4-21 since Bell departed last night.
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'World class' Buttler goes in test cricket for a duck,, shock horror he nicks off outside off stump.
Simply not good enough in proper cricket. Only suited to white ball stuff where you just throw the bat through the line
that is a bit bonkers!
Give him a chance, everyone makes a 0 every so often!
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Collapse is on - 4-21 since Bell departed last night.
. All just hitting merchants. Stokes played a stupid shot given the field.. Buttler was hopeless, tredwell shouldn't even be a pro.. Broad up next.. Good god
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that is a bit bonkers!
Give him a chance, everyone makes a 0 every so often!
Oh come on, do you really think he's good enough for test match cricket? Feet do nothing, head nowhere near the ball.. All bottom hand.. Will Nick off time and time again and you know it.
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Oh come on, do you really think he's good enough for test match cricket? Feet do nothing, head nowhere near the ball.. All bottom hand.. Will Nick off time and time again and you know it
Yes - I think Buttler is massively talented and will come good.
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eh up Broad up next Interesting stance when facing the quick stuff. He's at square leg
or as Tuffers said of the abandoned Jamiaca test match
''I put on all the protection I could find, asked for middle guard, stood my bat up in the crater I was looking at and walked off'
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I have to say I agree with Pro there. He doesn't have an answer for full outside off stump. It's just not his game.
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Yes - I think Buttler is massively talented and will come good.
He'll do well in white ball stuff but not tests. Only tests he'll do well in is when he has to basically play white ball cricket style etc. he's got awesome talent, just not good enough for test cricket.
Broad gone for a duck.. We have a looooooong tail.. Crap top 3, crap bottom 4/5 (depending how you rate Buttler). Bell, root and stokes will have to score loads every game
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Adam Gilchrist played test Match cricket,white ball stylee-he could be a bit lose outside the off stick from time to time.
Stuart Broad has the major batting yips! I hope he books a few sessions with Dr Stephen Peters...
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Adam Gilchrist played test Match cricket,white ball stylee-he could be a bit lose outside the off stick from time to time.
Stuart Broad has the major batting yips! I hope he books a few sessions with Dr Stephen Peters...
Gilly was better than people give him credit for, he wasn't just a hitter
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Similarities to when Sri Lanka turned us over at Headingley. England crusing, Bell gets out, England collapse.
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Buttler will come good. Broad looks like he'd be one spot too high at 11.
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broad can't bat anymore, we might as well of picked an out and out bowler -Wood.
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So if buttler is sent back to lancs. Is Bairstow a good enough red ball player?
England need to start from a blank sheet. And not worry about upsetting the old boys.
Also anyone see graeme smiths recent tweet r.e strausse? ?
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h76/smilley792/Screenshot_2015-04-14-16-32-09-1_zps3d0qrux4.png) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/smilley792/media/Screenshot_2015-04-14-16-32-09-1_zps3d0qrux4.png.html)
Lol
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So if buttler is sent back to lancs. Is Bairstow a good enough red ball player?
England need to start from a blank sheet. And not worry about upsetting the old boys.
Also anyone see graeme smiths recent tweet r.e strausse? ?
Pick for WI, NZ and ashes whoever the top two keepers in county cricket were in 2013/14. Reward form (like with lyth etc). Send Buttler to play county cricket to earn his spot rather than get it on white ball merit. We don't need to look to have a player for x years all the time.. Just pick the best ones and then f they aren't performing as you want (say 40+ for a wk nowadays) then move them on.. Of they are, then they keep their spot.
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Jimmy will get us through to 500
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So if buttler is sent back to lancs. Is Bairstow a good enough red ball player?
England need to start from a blank sheet. And not worry about upsetting the old boys.
Also anyone see graeme smiths recent tweet r.e strausse? ?
seen it, remember Smith hates Strauss after the 'im not giving you a runner test match'.
Strauss and his plummy accept and tory nature looks exactly the sort of thing most fans want away from but tell me a better captain in recent years? He may not be perfect for the top job but has a lot to offer and made us winners.
Yes I know Vaughan was captain in 2005 but he loves himself too much for my liking
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So if buttler is sent back to lancs. Is Bairstow a good enough red ball player?
A first class average of better than 40 and that test match against South Africa suggest that he is. He needs to be given a proper run though - 12 months of solid cricket rather than in and out like the hokay cokey on acid.
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Strauss and his plummy accept and tory nature looks exactly the sort of thing most fans want away from but tell me a better captain in recent years? He may not be perfect for the top job but has a lot to offer and made us winners.
Yes I know Vaughan was captain in 2005 but he loves himself too much for my liking
But Vaughan calls a spade a spade, where as Strauss toes the party line - in terms of best captains of this century, England's hierarchy would go Vaughan, Hussain, Pietersen, Strauss, Flintoff, Cook. As managers of men, it might look a little different - Vaughan, Strauss, Flintoff, Hussain, Cook, Pietersen for example....
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Bravo batting without a bat sponsor, still using Spartan pads and gloves though?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Bairstow is a step bacwards he has had his opportunity previously at test level and his technique was found wanting.
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Any graeme Smith went on to say Alex Stewart would be a good appointment, as they're part of the same old boys network he claims to hate.
ANyone who advocates Stewart is daft, as he's part of the omnishambles that is surrey over the last few seasons.
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Bairstow is a step bacwards he has had his opportunity previously at test level and his technique was found wanting.
So was Steve Smith on his fist run, and he benefitted from far more consistency of selection than Bluey has...
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So was Steve Smith on his fist run, and he benefitted from far more consistency of selection than Bluey has...
So was Hashim Amla. If he's worked on his weaknesses then why not give him another shot
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So was Hashim Amla. If he's worked on his weaknesses then why not give him another shot
It's no disgrace being found out, dropped and then if you work on it and come back, then show the improvements. Smith is a perfect example.
Cook is the opposite, been found out and just isn't bothering to work on the weaknesses
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What a blinder of a catch from Jordan! He's becoming a great slip fielder, top hands.
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Good bit of banter from stump mic '20/20 deals all around the world and he blocking it' and I'm certain I heard a Chris Gayle reference!
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Is anyone watching this live?
Is it dull or compelling? Does our attack look toothless? Is Tredders turning it?
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Is anyone watching this live?
Is it dull or compelling? Does our attack look toothless? Is Tredders turning it?
It's not great viewing, but you've got shiv digging in and another lad who could do anything at any point.
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Stokes nearly at 90mph, plus point
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Tredders is doing nothing. If they get it out it will be them getting themselves out not because of a good ball. Sky commentary commented how Tredwell is not able to get in a second rate team, but he is there because 'you know what you get'. BORING!
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Ben Stokes you bea... bell end! >:(
Wicket off a no ball :(
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words fail me (not literally that would make this post ridiculous but figuratively, of course)
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Still can't get my head around why professional cricketers bowl no balls. That 6" will cost you nothing compared to what you stand to lose by over stepping.
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those 6" are precious to all of us....
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Reckon Blackwood's playing the wrong form of cricket. Did the same against SA.
Absolute joke that kirk Edwards isn't being selected
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It's probably been said before but, how old and battered does Shiv's Gray Nics look?
2013 Powerbow stickers and the face is almost all red! How does he make his willow last so long?
Saw he was using an Ignite last year in the CC which is an 09/10 model so that's 4/5 years old...
He must take amazing care of his bats as most pro-bats these days don't seem to last a season let alone 3/4/5
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Soft hands and timing, that's shiv's secret. Love watching him bat, proper test match stuff.
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Is Shiv actually sponsored?
If he buys his own kit that might explain why it lasts for so long.
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Is Shiv actually sponsored?
If he buys his own kit that might explain why it lasts for so long.
It looks like he is. Checked his crininfo page earlier and seen pics of him using bats with the powerbow gen x and australian oblivion e41 stickers on them.
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Is Shiv actually sponsored?
If he buys his own kit that might explain why it lasts for so long.
Im having a chat with Gray Nics on twitter about the exact same thing right now. Chatted to the guy at lords last summer on the stand and he explained how Shiv only lets him make his bats and has done for a long time. Apparently he really likes to play his bats in. I like the way Shiv looks like a club cricketer with his gear whilst playing test cricket :)
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Im having a chat with Gray Nics on twitter about the exact same thing right now. Chatted to the guy at lords last summer on the stand and he explained how Shiv only lets him make his bats and has done for a long time. Apparently he really likes to play his bats in. I like the way Shiv looks like a club cricketer with his gear whilst playing test cricket :)
Speaking of Shiv, has anyone else ever come across a batsman who uses his trigger movement? I have seen a couple, they are usually awful.
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Speaking of Shiv, has anyone else ever come across a batsman who uses his trigger movement? I have seen a couple, they are usually awful.
Only seen one, assumed he'd be awful at first but a completely chanceless 137* to chase down the pretty high target we'd set them made me think again.
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All Shiv does is get into line and side on - but it works for him.
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Im having a chat with Gray Nics on twitter about the exact same thing right now. Chatted to the guy at lords last summer on the stand and he explained how Shiv only lets him make his bats and has done for a long time. Apparently he really likes to play his bats in. I like the way Shiv looks like a club cricketer with his gear whilst playing test cricket :)
I suppose it shows us that we don't need all new gear all the time... Madness I tell thee
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I suppose it shows us that we don't need all new gear all the time... Madness I tell thee
Just imagine how good his record would be if he had a new bat more often and cleaned all the cherries off his antisucff! :o :o :o :o :o
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Civ deffo sponsored. The gray nics bat maker on twitter showed him some bats he had made a few months back. And that shiv had requested the older powerbow sticker for them.
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loving that from Shiv
''thanks for making me ten brand new ones from grade one plus plus plus reserved willow but can I have a look at that unused bat in the corner with cobwebs on with the original powerspot stickers(ATHERTON)''
GN: ''Shiv mate that was left here as a repair in 1980 the guy never collected it''
SC:''perfect, i'll take it.
LEGEND...
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Am I seeing right?!?!? Broad sledging Holder over not playing a bouncer?? Pot calling kettle, least he isn't running away from it cowardly. Concentrate on your own game fella
He's got me round the bat, it's test match cricket... Not bothering to play it is great batting.. Broad needs to wind his neck in. He's under performing now, and has for months..
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Am I seeing right?!?!? Broad sledging Holder over not playing a bouncer?? Pot calling kettle, least he isn't running away from it cowardly. Concentrate on your own game fella
He's got me round the bat, it's test match cricket... Not bothering to play it is great batting.. Broad needs to wind his neck in. He's under performing now, and has for months..
we are embarrassing sometimes, we really are. If we were the dogs do dahs fine, walk around 10 feet tall....but we AINT!!!
plus those of us old enough on the forum(that's most definatley myself) remember the 1980's West Indies said nothing to you. Just looked, no trash talk.
I suppose when you have ambrose/walsh/Patterson(2 lids needed)/marshall/garner etc actions speak louder than words :)
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Tredders the new Nathan Lyon
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Not a great game back for trott.
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Cook gone!
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Decent ball to trott but ive been sitting watching waiting for a wicket.that horrible feeling when we just look vulnerable every ball
Not a great time to bat but the openers are so important
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Good opening spell by Taylor it has to be said tuning into a great game hopefully
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This is some very impressive bowling from Taylor though.
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Am I seeing right?!?!? Broad sledging Holder over not playing a bouncer?? Pot calling kettle, least he isn't running away from it cowardly. Concentrate on your own game fella
He's got me round the bat, it's test match cricket... Not bothering to play it is great batting.. Broad needs to wind his neck in. He's under performing now, and has for months..
Stuart broad is a complete xxxxxxxxx, insert any number of expletives.
I apologise, I usually try really hard to concentrate on an individual's positive traits, but I'm afraid to say, to me this guy is void of any endearing qualities.
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Stuart broad is a complete xxxxxxxxx, insert any number of expletives.
I apologise, I usually try really hard to concentrate on an individual's positive traits, but I'm afraid to say, to me this guy is void of any endearing qualities.
Hearing you there brother.No doubt there were more big heads in that changing room not incl KP.He's one of them.
A bit sad when try-as-we-might one of our players is impossible to actually like.
Interesting stat on bbc txt.only 3 century partnerships since Strauss retired..cook and compton,opening I mean obviously.
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(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h76/smilley792/61314770_zpsbalpv2nb.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/smilley792/media/61314770_zpsbalpv2nb.jpg.html)
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Once selected, and as an England supporter, I obviously wanted Trott to do well. But as a Yorkshireman and a personal friend of Adam Lyth's, I just can't believe he hasn't been given his chance to open up?! Trott is a backward and negative step IMO and Lythy couldn't have done much more to earn his opportunity. I suppose nothing can really surprise us with the England setup these days!
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Bell gone in a stupid run out.
Windies could win this!
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Well, the game does need more competitive cricket...
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All those people who doubted dear old tredders hang you heads in shame. 4-47 off 26, top stuff from Kent's 2nd xi bowler.
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Imagine the figures a decent spinner would have got
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How samules action is legal is beyond me - he's back to the default of chucking
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Imagine the figures a decent spinner would have got
Lucky the Windies didn't play one either!
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How samules action is legal is beyond me - he's back to the default of chucking
It was his quicker ball he chucked.
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how does a run occur in a test match when your not chasing the game. not watching just have cricinfo text commentary
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Bell hit it and set off.
Ballance said no wait, but then set off, then stopped.
Bell fell for the dummy got half way before turning back, but Did knee make it.
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Anyone care to defend Cook/ECB??
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Cook still fishing outside off stump. It is becoming increasingly difficult for him to put up decent scores. Not good for his career, he has been in a slump far too long.
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Anyone care to defend Cook/ECB??
Yes.....you don't get that many hundreds without being able to cut it at the highest level.a dip in form,a barren period,a slump-nothing new here that hasn't happened to a club or test cricketer in the past.He needs to forget about techinique and his coaches-gooch and ramprakash should be telling him to score every single run availalble in the next two tests and back him up all the way,even if he is out trying to play the wrong shot
it's the mentaility of batting not the technique, once you get to 30 or 40 youre in,technique don't matter.
And try working directly with the guy who got you sacked 3 months ago-fancy that hanging over you day in day out? no..didn't think so.
The selectors could of done Cook a favour by picking Lyth who would compliment Cook's batting more than Trott does.Trott should be waiting until their is a space at number 3-his old position.If Balance is doing well(he is) then wait...that should of been the plan.
England's cricket problems are not down to one man,Cook cannot be responsible for everything.
We,the fans,the press...either back him up now or discard him, it will only go one of those two ways.Want to scrap heap the bloke who has 25 test hundreds?
really?
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Cook's dismissal yesterday was pretty poor but do think he has a place in the test team. Can't help but think he needs to get his head down and concentrate on playing some cricket to find some form. Shame he wasnt able to use the break from missing the world cup by playing some decent standard red ball cricket.
The longer he doesnt go on with a score the media are going to remind everyone of how long it has been, which i think is really unfortunate but part of modern sport (and cricket captaincy)
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How many more chances can you give cook. He's gone 61 innings without a international 100. He's tried to change his technique but the same weakness with half volleys remains.
No point saying he's failing due to the pressure of kp
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Yes.....you don't get that many hundreds without being able to cut it at the highest level.a dip in form,a barren period,a slump-nothing new here that hasn't happened to a club or test cricketer in the past.He needs to forget about techinique and his coaches-gooch and ramprakash should be telling him to score every single run availalble in the next two tests and back him up all the way,even if he is out trying to play the wrong shot
it's the mentaility of batting not the technique, once you get to 30 or 40 youre in,technique don't matter.
And try working directly with the guy who got you sacked 3 months ago-fancy that hanging over you day in day out? no..didn't think so.
The selectors could of done Cook a favour by picking Lyth who would compliment Cook's batting more than Trott does.Trott should be waiting until their is a space at number 3-his old position.If Balance is doing well(he is) then wait...that should of been the plan.
England's cricket problems are not down to one man,Cook cannot be responsible for everything.
We,the fans,the press...either back him up now or discard him, it will only go one of those two ways.Want to scrap heap the bloke who has 25 test hundreds?
really?
Didn't they discard a player recently for far less who had a similar number of tons??? For cricket reasons no less. So yes, I can discard him back to county cricket because he's been poor for a long time and shows no improvement.
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Cook currently is underpeforming.
Hell fire reading this thread no matter what ENGLAND do it will not be good enough.
Funny reading some of the negativity towards Cook and other each to there own but I personally don't champion failure with gust.
Lyth has deserved a go no doubt but heaven forbid if he fails what happens if KP fails on his return.
Negativity it only cricket, if you played and watched he for a long time it like clubs you go through cycles this happens to be on of England's.
People wrote the WINDIES off cheaply but they have some handy bowlers and England are fighting and fair play to them for that. I enjoyed watching Root and Ballance figh back more so Ballance who is proving he may have flaws but he got a great mentality.
Reading this thread is like a pack of I told you so Lions waiting to pounce and majority would simply just be happy with KP.
We are in a game and I'm enjoying it maybe I'm easily made happy but we are all enritled to our opinion.
England are fighting make no mistake.
Do I agree with politics of it all no.
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I do still think WI are a poor side, and England should win every game. I also think the batsmen should 'cash in' stats wise against teams like this. WI have been a poor side for a while, low in the rankings for a reason and are missing some big players in this series. If England or batsmen can't score hat full of runs then how the hell will they against NZ or Aus later this year?
Cook was a decent player who managed to score despite his technical flaw, now thought everyone knows it, sets him up and he is a lame duck. Trott shouldn't be opening but he's like a new player, needs a few more innings to judge (although again, if you can't score hat fulls vs WI then he won't against NZ or Aus. Ballance looks out preform but even he looks liken he's about to cash in this innings and get those stats up.
Every side goes through ups and downs but you have to know when to cut your losses with a player. ECB though Kp was 2013, Xook should be now (for at least this summer to go back to county cricket, score runs, gain confidence and then come back if there is space)
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Anyone care to defend Cook/ECB??
I think it's a difficult call with one eye on the Ashes what do you do now Cook as been included in the team leave him out based on current form but then look at his stats give him more time and hope he will come off or bring in a new guy and hope he does well at test level but then what do England do if he fails with the ist test against Australia on the 8Th of July.
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Cook will get this series, and so will Trott. Michael Vaughan on TMS yesterday was saying that is the England way. They stick with what they know (hence Tredwell and Trott's selections) and give them a decent chance to come good. If Trott doesn't I think it's likely he'll be sent away to score runs and Lyth will get a go vs NZ.
Re; Cook I honestly feel the larger issue is the role of England captain. Hussain, Vaughan, Strauss and now Cook all found their batting suffering from being captain. The captain's role has meant much more off field requirements (PR, marketing, press and media, etc.), even more so in the lead up to test matches, especially at home. Got to keep the sponsors happy - they will all have demands for England player appearances and most will request the skipper.
That, in addition to his technical flaw, relationship with the head coach (which I don't believe is good - he clearly feels let down after being dropped) and the KP speculation and personal abuse has all taken a toll. As has been said, he's a proven test player and will be given, I think, the whole summer. He had a similar spell before his 700-odd runs in the ashes, but he wasn't captain then... If he isn't performing half way through the ashes, I suspect we'll see him stand down to concentrate on his batting...
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Vaughan States this is Englands way if i was Nick Compton I would be on the telephone.
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That, in addition to his technical flaw, relationship with the head coach (which I don't believe is good - he clearly feels let down after being dropped) and the KP speculation and personal abuse has all taken a toll. As has been said, he's a proven test player and will be given, I think, the whole summer. He had a similar spell before his 700-odd runs in the ashes, but he wasn't captain then... If he isn't performing half way through the ashes, I suspect we'll see him stand down to concentrate on his batting...
Sorry but we have to get away from this - there is no way he should be given until the Ashes are surrendered.
I do find Trott's selection way more egregious than Cook's retention - myriad of reasons including the obvious availability of a much stronger candidate hampered only by the fact that he's a Yorkshire lad. But....how long do we just keep assuming that this will come good? People cite the 2010 problems but that was a range of dismissals against much better bowling with less stress factors involved - now, its plain that bowlers know they just have to float the ball up to him and its party time.
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Sorry but we have to get away from this - there is no way he should be given until the Ashes are surrendered.
I do find Trott's selection way more egregious than Cook's retention - myriad of reasons including the obvious availability of a much stronger candidate hampered only by the fact that he's a Yorkshire lad. But....how long do we just keep assuming that this will come good? People cite the 2010 problems but that was a range of dismissals against much better bowling with less stress factors involved - now, its plain that bowlers know they just have to float the ball up to him and its party time.
you make it sound like he has only one leg or something...he has a technical fault with his game, unless your'e in the elite class of lara,pointing,sachin then you will have one.
Are you saying he cannot fix it and will forever go down and never get his form back?
of all the England captains of the last few years doesn't he have the highest average still? :)
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This platform should be made for Buttler here hopefully should cash in.
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Well batted Gary!!
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you make it sound like he has only one leg or something...he has a technical fault with his game, unless your'e in the elite class of lara,pointing,sachin then you will have one.
Are you saying he cannot fix it and will forever go down and never get his form back?
of all the England captains of the last few years doesn't he have the highest average still? :)
It pains me to say it, but he hasn't fixed it in the last 2 years...
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you make it sound like he has only one leg or something...he has a technical fault with his game, unless your'e in the elite class of lara,pointing,sachin then you will have one.
Are you saying he cannot fix it and will forever go down and never get his form back?
of all the England captains of the last few years doesn't he have the highest average still? :)
He's had it for ages now and hasn't improved so yeah, drop him
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Opening with Lyth and Trott?
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And left with Bell most likely as captain which I can't see happening.
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you make it sound like he has only one leg or something...he has a technical fault with his game, unless your'e in the elite class of lara,pointing,sachin then you will have one.
Are you saying he cannot fix it and will forever go down and never get his form back?
of all the England captains of the last few years doesn't he have the highest average still? :)
Erm, at the last count I'd say he had at least four technical flaws - an inability to complete his trigger movement in time to be still for delivery, head falling over to off, a lack of foot movement toward the ball at any point and a closed face when driving. That's a LOT of technical faults - and unlike most players with such flaws, they all amount in their sum to one huge issue, namely that a well pitched up ball that is off stump or outside is more or less unplayable to him.
Is he unredeemable? Maybe not - but these are not flaws that are suddenly going to click in over a game or two - at the moment his batting is going backwards and becoming technically worse in the same way an elite golfer's swing has to get worse before it improves. It takes a rank fool to believe that everything is suddenly going to click into place when he has another Test Tuesday and then late the following week and...oh, you must get the picture.
All the while remember that Hussain, Virgil and Strauss were good, exceptional and very good respectively as leaders of men (Cook rates average on a good day) and solid, awesome and clever as tacticians (don't get me started) so there is no real tactical reason why we need Cook as figurehead...
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Opening with Lyth and Trott?
Actually, in the West Indies, I'd go Lyth and Ali. Would allow for two spinners without sacking Stokes off, which is sensible given these tests are a proving ground for bigger stuff:
Lyth
Ali
Ballance
Bell (c)
Root
Stokes
Buttler
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
Wood
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England have declared, and windies need 438 in 140 overs.
So being very presumptive. When will england win?
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We got one.execellent bowling from ol big head
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England have declared, and windies need 438 in 140 overs.
So being very presumptive. When will england win?
Eng were always going to win, forgone conclusion as graves stated
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Erm, at the last count I'd say he had at least four technical flaws - an inability to complete his trigger movement in time to be still for delivery, head falling over to off, a lack of foot movement toward the ball at any point and a closed face when driving. That's a LOT of technical faults - and unlike most players with such flaws, they all amount in their sum to one huge issue, namely that a well pitched up ball that is off stump or outside is more or less unplayable to him.
Is he unredeemable? Maybe not - but these are not flaws that are suddenly going to click in over a game or two - at the moment his batting is going backwards and becoming technically worse in the same way an elite golfer's swing has to get worse before it improves. It takes a rank fool to believe that everything is suddenly going to click into place when he has another Test Tuesday and then late the following week and...oh, you must get the picture.
All the while remember that Hussain, Virgil and Strauss were good, exceptional and very good respectively as leaders of men (Cook rates average on a good day) and solid, awesome and clever as tacticians (don't get me started) so there is no real tactical reason why we need Cook as figurehead...
Excellent points,unanswerable without talking gibberish.the golf comparison could be used with woods,sandy lyle,nick faldo-all rebuilt their swing with the help of specialists...
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Excellent points,unanswerable without talking gibberish.the golf comparison could be used with woods,sandy lyle,nick faldo-all rebuilt their swing with the help of specialists...
Again, he's been like this for two or more years, has th best coaching and facilities available... And hasn't fixed it
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Excellent points,unanswerable without talking gibberish.the golf comparison could be used with woods,sandy lyle,nick faldo all rebuilt their swing with the help of specialists...
To be fair the swings where re built not because they where no good but for injury prevention and longevity in Woods case and Faldo wanted a more repeatable swing so he could contend in majors sacrificing distance for accuracy, not read Lyles autobiography so not sure on his reason. So in Cooks case to use a golf analogy you wouldn't take your new swing or what your working on to a Major you would hit the Tour to grove the changes ie county cricket.
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Tredwell's been pretty poor so far against 2 lefty's who have historically struggled against off spin. Bowling a bit to slow for me! Does Joe Root no longer turn his arm over?
Reckon England batted 5/6 overs to many, no chance of west indies getting 438.
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England look flat.
Our lass is not amused I'm making her watch it.
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and joe root strikes! more threatening in 7 balls than Tredwell all spell.
Another ripper of a catch from Jordan!
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Roooooooooooooooooooot
Think it helps he bowls at 57-60. Not the 45mph treds is bowling.
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This should be over pretty quickly now. Just give chanderpaul the single and get the rest out
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Oh Jimmy Jimmy.
Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy Andersoooooooooooooon
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Would love to be watching Rashid bowling now.
Not a massive turner of the ball,Tredwell, is he?
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Predictable victory even more predictable now. Chanderpaul out
So who for team ECB has actually performed this match?
Bell
Ballance
Buttler (played an odi innings but it's what was needed)
Stokes (runs and imputus)
For me that's it, oh roots ok
Questions need asking about Cook, Trott, tredwell, Anderson (has really done much), broad (to me he's not been as effective as he should)
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I'll reiterate what I said earlier.
Roooooooooooooooooooot
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COME ON!!!!!!! :)
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Who needs Moeen, we have Joe Roooooooooooooot!
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just imagine how good we could be in more Yorkshire players were in the team
L-Y-T-H :o
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Root's probably been under used (even in the WC). Should have opened the bowing today instead of treadwell after out bowling him yesterday.
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Some good captancy by Cook today no doubt I think Tredwell has bowled well but will not be retained and neither should be. Root is a good all round cricketer good game hope England finish it off which I think they should and deservedly as well.
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Think you've spoken a bit soon about cook's good captaincy. Root continues to be under bowled.
Jordan appears no threat at all. But these two have batted well, holder's looked solid
Could be in for a interesting last session. Question's might be asked about the declaration if they don't win.
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Scary that of this test. Root looks our most threatening bowler.......
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Oooooooohhhhhh Jimmy Jimmy
Jiiimmmyyy jiiiimmmmmyyyyy jiiiiiiimmmmmmmyyyyyy jiiiimmmmuuyyyy Aaannnnndddddderrrrrrsssssoooooooooonnnnnn!
Not bad for a clubbie ;)
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Well done Jimmy.
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Brilliant stuff from Anderson
We are running out of time thou!
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Oooooooohhhhhh Jimmy Jimmy
Jiiimmmyyy jiiiimmmmmyyyyy jiiiiiiimmmmmmmyyyyyy jiiiimmmmuuyyyy Aaannnnndddddderrrrrrsssssoooooooooonnnnnn!
Not bad for a clubbie ;)
Love it!! Haha
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Congratulations Jimmy - but first and foremost, there is a test match to win.
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Hope holder gets a 100 here. Played superbly so far
Roach looking pretty solid in defence.
Far too many overs wasted giving Jordan and treadwell a bowl. Should have given ballance a couple of overs earlier
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So - a draw then?
Too flat a pitch?
Or too flat an England attack?
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Still not convinced about England's bowling attack. Pundits seem happy with Broad but I've seen no real improvement,still seems down on pace and nip.we are absolutely crying out for an out and out paceman-where is he?!
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Can't see England winning this. At least I've found a pub that is showing
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Brilliant 100 from holder! Match saving knock.
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Holder da mon!!!!
Great job!
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40 overs from tredwell and the only wicket he took was one that was gifted to him from a poor shot. Hasn't looked threatening at all. No one seemed to tell him to bowl quicker on a sluggish pitch
As well as west indies have batted, England have thrown this one away.
They knew the type of pitch that was coming, declaration should have come 5-6 overs earlier. More pressure on cook!
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Well done holder and the windies.
England pretty poor. Didn't deserve the win.
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I don;t know about the timing of the declaration - I think that was fair. The prblem is 4 x right arm seamers of a similar pace + 2 off-spinners. One steady at best and the other a part-timer.
These are flat wickets, there is a case for Ali and Rashide coming in for Trott and Tredwell.
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I don;t know about the timing of the declaration - I think that was fair. The prblem is 4 x right arm seamers of a similar pace + 2 off-spinners. One steady at best and the other a part-timer.
These are flat wickets, there is a case for Ali and Rashide coming in for Trott and Tredwell.
The 4 man seam attack was too samey for my liking.
England could do with a real pace bowler, someone like Mitchell Johnson, Dale Steyn or Liam Plunkett would be nice...
In the next test we could do with Lyth coming in for Trott to open and Moeen for Tredwell, as Root has proved he can do a job bowling his tweakers from an end.
We could go really drastic and bring Rashid in for Jordan too...
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Some pretty harsh comments here, Jesus. Thought cook's captaincy was pretty good, we had enough runs on the board and enough time to get the 10 wickets. I thought the bowlers tried their hardest, but think the pitch was the deciding factor. Can't remember the last time I saw a track that offered so little on the 5th day. They could still be bowling on that next week and not get any assistance.
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Well done to WI, holder gutted it out, congrats, England ran out of ideas.
As said above - too samy, too RH mid fast, too staid
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Good captaincy by Cook.
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Well done holder and the windies.
England pretty poor. Didn't deserve the win.
Agree with this. Poor from England
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Yes the bowlers tried and credit where it's due Cook's captaincy was above par.
However, the bowling attack offered no real variation.
For the next test is like to see (but it won't happen)
Cook*
Lyth
Ballance
Bell
Root
Stokes
Moeen
Butler+
Rashid/Jordan (pitch dependant)
Plunkett
Anderson
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Yes the bowlers tried and credit where it's due Cook's captaincy was above par.
However, the bowling attack offered no real variation.
For the next test is like to see (but it won't happen)
Cook*
Lyth
Ballance
Bell
Root
Stokes
Moeen
Butler+
Rashid/Jordan (pitch dependant)
Plunkett
Anderson
A lot of depth to that batting line up! Apart from Cook the walking wicket...
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Rightly or wrongly, they won;t drop Broad. Other than that, I agree with the selection, my enormous-girthed friend.
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A lot of depth to that batting line up! Apart from Cook the walking wicket...
Cook won't get dropped because he's captain so I almost had to put him there.
As Fattus said Broad will get another game to stand at square leg with his eyed closed, then send down so 80mph half volleys.
Another series - Same old England
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So mentally who won this game?
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Not that he's done anything wrong, but does Jordan really warrant his place? I know he's a useful batsmen and good fielder, but he just doesn't strike me as ever likely to be a real test match quality bowler. Odis yes, but not tests from what I've seen.
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Given the choice, and given the remit to shake things up (and given the dead pitches),my team would be -
Cook
Lyth
Ballance
Bell
Root
Ali
Stokes
Butler
Rashid
Wood
Anderson
Batting down to 9 - but more importantly, 5 or 6 varied bowling options.
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So mentally who won this game?
The Windies definitley! Big dig in job to snatch a draw from the looming jaws of defeat.
England put in the hard yards yet came up short at the business end.
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West Indies finally finding a few young players worth their salt. Jason Holder has star quality and will one day be a world all rounder. Jermaine Blackwood and Kraigg Brathwaite are very promising young batsmen. If the Windies can ditch the deadwood like Samuels and Benn, they could be on the way to a half decent side.
Poor old clubbie Anderson, even against weak opposition, without a doctored greentop he still can't win a match.
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West Indies finally finding a few young players worth their salt. Jason Holder has star quality and will one day be a world all rounder. Jermaine Blackwood and Kraigg Brathwaite are very promising young batsmen. If the Windies can ditch the deadwood like Samuels and Benn, they could be on the way to a half decent side.
Poor old clubbie Anderson, even against weak opposition, without a doctored greentop he still can't win a match.
Don't agree with the "clubbie" title but thats Gerry for you. Seems that the Anderson's and Stein's etc are on the downward spiral. New quicks like Starc, Southee, Boult, Pattinson et al are taking over.
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Given the choice, and given the remit to shake things up (and given the dead pitches),my team would be -
Cook
Lyth
Ballance
Bell
Root
Ali
Stokes
Butler
Rashid
Wood
Anderson
Batting down to 9 - but more importantly, 5 or 6 varied bowling options.
Oh come on, it'll be the same XI. Unless Ali's return is another excuse to drop a deserving Yorkshireman....
Your XI makes more sense - but even after watching fairly average tail enders kick Tredders away with ease England will still go with two slow off spinners rather than "risking" Rashid might make them look stupid...
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If its the same xi. I'm gonna be cheering for the windies. Nice 2 nil loss to them might actually make the ecb make proper changes to the mentality the English set up has.
Frustrating.
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I don't know why everyone is harping on about Jordan. He's a great fielder but I haven't seen anything else from him that suggests he is there on merit.
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I agree, ordinary.
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I think Jordan's another one that on paper seems like an ideal pick but in reality just doesn't quite cut it except as a specialist fielder.
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England's obsession with bits and pieces cricketers is pitiful.
Firstly there was a journeyman like Tim Bresnan. No talent but tried hard. Then rocked up Chris Woakes and Chris Jordan, whom are both inferior to Bresnan.
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England's obsession with bits and pieces cricketers is pitiful.
Firstly there was a journeyman like Tim Bresnan. No talent but tried hard. Then rocked up Chris Woakes and Chris Jordan, whom are both inferior to Bresnan.
I do actually agree with you here Gerry. Shame we can't just clone Jimmy A three times really.
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Is Mark Wood quick or another seamer who struggles to get it past 85mph?Not seen him bowl.
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He's mid to high 80's, probably a similar speed to Stokes but a different sort of bowler.
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No one seemed to tell him to bowl quicker on a sluggish pitch
Funny that. ;)
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im surprised mark footit hasnt been mentioned more 90mph plus and a left armer although a bit raw or is being at derbyshire a big negative?
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Firstly there was a journeyman like Tim Bresnan. No talent but tried hard. Then rocked up Chris Woakes and Chris Jordan, whom are both inferior to Bresnan.
Bresnan was - pre-shoulder and elbow injuries - a lot better than a bits and pieces cricketer. Close to 90mph, heavy ball and capable of reverse swing he was the perfect third seamer, willing to do the hard yards whilst the pretty boys got the new cherry and pick of ends. The fact that he was a perfectly functional seven/eight in Tests more than helped.
The last eighteen months of his test career were rather different because he just was not fit. Woakes and Jordan are inferior copies of that version...
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surely they should just pick alex hales in every format. problem solved
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surely they should just pick alex hales in every format. problem solved
222no vs Yorkshire, cane in at no 3.
Even with Yorkshire missing the test players it's a good knock.
Notts on 393/7 so hales has made a good chunk of them!
Personally I hope he has a really good season all round, for his own sake, ignoring how England like to mess players around
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Bresnan was - pre-shoulder and elbow injuries - a lot better than a bits and pieces cricketer. Close to 90mph, heavy ball and capable of reverse swing he was the perfect third seamer, willing to do the hard yards whilst the pretty boys got the new cherry and pick of ends. The fact that he was a perfectly functional seven/eight in Tests more than helped.
The last eighteen months of his test career were rather different because he just was not fit. Woakes and Jordan are inferior copies of that version...
I think Woakes is as good as Bresnan he is a superior Batsman than Bresnan for sure and i think given a bit of time his bowling will come good too.
Give the lad time i think Woakes will be a decent fit for England but you are right Bresnan had his uses and was decent.
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As i see it the problem with Woakes is his lack of pace at Test level As an up and down bowler he won't bother the best players.
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222no vs Yorkshire, cane in at no 3.
Even with Yorkshire missing the test players it's a good knock.
Being fair to Hales, he was still facing a decent attack - though you wonder how different it might have been had Sidebottom, Plunkett and Rashid been available to give it variety.
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As i see it the problem with Woakes is his lack of pace at Test level As an up and down bowler he won't bother the best players.
Woakes is neither slow, nor an up and down bowler! He's bowling quicker than both Broad and Anderson these days, has put a few yards on since becoming involved with England, and he has always moved the ball both ways.
Anderson and Broad both increasingly look like they're on the way to being shot out these days, I would have rested at least one of them for this series in the hope they can regain some fitness and sharpness, which would also have given the chance to include Plunkett for a little extra pace (although he isn't actually much quicker than Stokes) or give Wood a chance to prove himself.
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Virgil was pretty sharp on Woakes' issue - its not lack of pace so much as the smoothness of his action, which means that the batsman knows exactly where the ball is coming from and therefore can pre-react more than he could with (the similarly paced) Wood.
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Virgil was pretty sharp on Woakes' issue - its not lack of pace so much as the smoothness of his action, which means that the batsman knows exactly where the ball is coming from and therefore can pre-react more than he could with (the similarly paced) Wood.
When Vaughan talks about this stuff - the same with Trott's technique - he sounds like someone who knows about cricket, especially batting, which he doesn't always show in his "click bait" writing/bbc commentary.
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Hadn't heard Vaughan's views on that, seems pretty fair actually - have noticed a similar issue with bowlers I've played with before. Definitely can't criticise Woakes purely for lack of pace these days though, he's pushing 90 pretty often.
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Woakes is neither slow, nor an up and down bowler! He's bowling quicker than both Broad and Anderson these days, has put a few yards on since becoming involved with England, and he has always moved the ball both ways.
Anderson and Broad both increasingly look like they're on the way to being shot out these days, I would have rested at least one of them for this series in the hope they can regain some fitness and sharpness, which would also have given the chance to include Plunkett for a little extra pace (although he isn't actually much quicker than Stokes) or give Wood a chance to prove himself.
Having watched Warks often
not convinced Woakes has what it takes with the bat or the ball to make it at test level.
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Having watched Warks often
not convinced Woakes has what it takes with the bat or the ball to make it at test level.
He's similar to Jason Holder and Mitch Marsh - in that he's a decent fourth seamer who is not quite up to the job of third seamer, but almost good enough to be classed as the all rounder at seven.
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So what's the XI going to be?
Cook
Trott
Ballance
Bell
Root
Ali
Stokes
Buttler
Jordan
Broad
Anderson
If it were my watch and bearing in mind reports of a pitch that will be relatively dead but dry enough to break up, it would be:
Cook
Lyth
Ballance
Bell
Root
Ali
Stokes
Buttler
Rashid
Plunko
Anderson
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He's similar to Jason Holder and Mitch Marsh - in that he's a decent fourth seamer who is not quite up to the job of third seamer, but almost good enough to be classed as the all rounder at seven.
Clearly not. Holder, after he bulks up will be up at 140kph. Factor in he's 6ft7, he'll be a handful on any pitch.
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Looking forward to see the return of Devendra Bishoo, who unlike Big Benn, will actually try to spin the ball.
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Clearly not. Holder, after he bulks up will be up at 140kph. Factor in he's 6ft7, he'll be a handful on any pitch.
Factor in that he has not managed to "bulk up" in that way thus far and that he loses the best part of half a foot of that height because he collapses in his delivery stride and I'll go with my original analysis thanks.
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Go on England, be brave and drop Trott and Tredwell and play Ali and Rashid.
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Go on England, be brave and drop Trott and Tredwell and play Ali and Rashid.
Drop Trot, Tredwell and Jordan and play Lyth, Ali and Rashid.
Argument for resting Jimmy and playing Plunkett or Wood to boot.
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Drop Trot, Tredwell and Jordan and play Lyth, Ali and Rashid.
Argument for resting Jimmy and playing Plunkett or Wood to boot.
That's just changing personnel. I'm talking about making use of that long batting line up and playing 4 seamers and 2 spinners. Go out and win the bloody game! These decks are pretty flat so stacking up with loads of batting and no variety with the ball is pointless. Surely Broad has to be given the boot at some point. Plunkett for Jordan, Wood for Broad wouldn't impact the batting at all and add a bit of variety to the bowling.
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That's just changing personnel. I'm talking about making use of that long batting line up and playing 4 seamers and 2 spinners. Go out and win the bloody game! These decks are pretty flat so stacking up with loads of batting and no variety with the ball is pointless. Surely Broad has to be given the boot at some point. Plunkett for Jordan, Wood for Broad wouldn't impact the batting at all and add a bit of variety to the bowling.
Interesting thought - Ali would have to open, then you'd have Stokes six, Buttler seven, Rashid eight and Plunkett nine. There is enough there - though by that standard Cook could go for Lyth to make sure there is no weak link in the top order.
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Currently Twitter chatting with George dobell, he reckons rashid is bowling poorly so is unselectable currently and to a good learning environment so won't be sent back to yorks. Lyth may get a gig if Trott fails this test
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Which still begs the question - why is he there? He hasn't gone off the edge of a cliff in the last two weeks, so was he not up to the mark before he even left England?
Totally mystifying at times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Currently Twitter chatting with George dobell, he reckons rashid is bowling poorly so is unselectable currently and to a good learning environment so won't be sent back to yorks. Lyth may get a gig if Trott fails this test
Lyth may get a gig if Trott fails this test....and if Trott is then caught sleeping with Moores' daughter and Cookie's cat in a bizarre threesome. But then only if Matt Prior doesn't ring his old mucker and point out that actually specialist opening batsman is almost exactly the same as wicketkeeper and lower order slogger and that actually his Achilles is only partially ****ed after all...
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Standard clubbie ball that from Anderson. Can't think why he's in the side... so average...
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I think im going to give up a bit on England. I don't follow how they are picking players.They are clearly so scared to take a chance because they will get sacked.That's a self fulfilling...whatever the term is.....(you know what I mean).Too scared to change, too scared to risk losing, result-back to the tried and tested. and we find out about no body.
It's a bit like a club where the captain picks his mates.
It's very unhealthy. Maybe the new boss told the management, once more chance in the Windies, if you don't win there's the door.
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However - according to cricinfo, our much-vaunted swing attack not making the Windies play enough or making the most of the conditions?
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It's ok, Cook has turned to Jordan
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Good to see the new ball being wasted by broad as usual.
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Errr, why'd he not review that?
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The team for the 2nd test looks a stronger one compared to the 1st.
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Great umpiring already..shocking decision.. England can't even win without dodgy decisions now
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Cook drops an absolute dolly which was offered up by Samuels off the bowling of Jordan.
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Yes and he's taken some great catches at first slip too.
He's not a robot :)
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Broad is looking so pedestrian fastest delivery 80.1mph most around the 77 - 78 mark. Really don't get what he brings to the side anymore. Has he just lost it all as we know his batting has gone backwards since the head injury or is he not fit. Just annoys me that we have Wood & Plunkett doing not a lot more than net bowling.
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Cook drops an absolute dolly which was offered up by Samuels off the bowling of Jordan.
Have you seen how close the slips are having to stand, makes catching pretty tough.
The pitch is terrible.
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Looks like samules counter attack. Hope he smashes broad a few more ;).
No better bowler in cricket to be seen smashed around the park than broad
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Broad is military medium.Im sorry but this attack is not going to win as test matches against the Aussies. I'd like to see Butler stand up to the stumps for Broad and watch him kick off!
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Have you seen how close the slips are having to stand, makes catching pretty tough.
The pitch is terrible.
Do me a favour. The slips might be standing a bit closer, but the bowling is barely medium pace. You make out like Cook's standing up to Jeff Thomson...
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Lets not hammer the bowlers too much this looks a flat deck just like Antigua.
But yes Broad could be replaced with wood or plunkett-we have plenty of batting and broad does not look like scoring any runs at all
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Ali's bowled some pies today. Surprising root's not even been given an over.
Thought England would have learnt from west indies' last tour of England that sledging samules doesn't work.
He's winning again today and the handbags are out for stokes and co.
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Lets not hammer the bowlers too much this looks a flat deck just like Antigua.
But yes Broad could be replaced with wood or plunkett-we have plenty of batting and broad does not look like scoring any runs at all
Your right it's a waste of time charging in on that track pitch the ball up aim to hit off stump 3/4 of the way up keep plunkett and wood fresh till they have a track that suits them.
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That embarrassing moment when trotts just as quick as broad.
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That embarrassing moment when trotts just as quick as broad.
So if Broad had carried on bowling they should've stayed on?
Get Butler up to the stumps and the umpire to tell him they're staying on because he's only a medium pacer, would love to see his reaction :D
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2 down and into the tail.
Do we think we can score enough runs in our one innings to win this? Or it heading for a draw again?? (Or for the pessimists a loss! )
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Interestingly Broad now appears to be back up to the high 80s.
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Interestingly Broad now appears to be back up to the high 80s.
He realised trott was at the same speed, so snuck out over night to a seedy gym, where he bought performance enhancing depositories.
He'll be back to low 70 in the 2nd innings
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84
81.4
79.6
85.4
Average speed in each of broads spells.
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Still getting whacked for 6's :)
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Well, this is dragging on a bit!
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Good good wagging from the tail.
showing up england there.
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Good to see everyone's favourite bowler getting back up to the pace levels he should be at. Wonder if it was a lack of bowling that was causing the issue.
How will Cook and Trott fair at the start of play do we think?
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They both looked better last night,probably helps taylor is not playing as it didnt swing much.
If they can get thru the first hour today we could be in a better position.
We are pressing the game and looks this wicket might go a bit on day 5.
I would like to of seen rashid in this game,or at least treadwell.not sure why everyone gets so excited about ali with ball in hand..
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Good to see everyone's favourite bowler getting back up to the pace levels he should be at. Wonder if it was a lack of bowling that was causing the issue.
Read somewhere (cricinfo i think) that he made a few technical changes overnight as he's been watching some videos of his old action vs current. Maybe just something that's changed as a result of being injured.
Edit - found it
Going wide boosts Broad
Stuart Broad believes a technical change made before the start of the second day's play has helped him rediscover some pace in his bowling. Broad, who averaged a speed of just 81mph on day one, bowled at speeds in excess of 90mph on day two and was rewarded by three more wickets and final figures of 4 for 61.
"I made a slight technical change overnight," Broad said. "I watched quite a lot of footage from the last two years of my wickets. On the first day, I was bowling a little bit tighter to the stumps which was stopping me getting my hips through and taking my momentum away. I went a bit wider in my run-up, a bit wider on the crease and it gave me momentum to drive my hips through. It was only a really small change, but it seems to have worked. I was really pleased with how I bowled."
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I only watch a bit of eng batting but thought they looked quite ropey. Trott whistler an inside edge last leg stump and cook was playing and missing for fun.
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It was good to see Broad bowling with more venom,hope it isn't a one off. Was quite surprised at Trottys shuffle,seems extreme as he starts off behind the crease and takes a step forward-has he always had this trigger movement?
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It was good to see Broad bowling with more venom,hope it isn't a one off. Was quite surprised at Trottys shuffle,seems extreme as he starts off behind the crease and takes a step forward-has he always had this trigger movement?
Yup he's always done it for as long as I can remember, it's possibly changed slightly over the years though.
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It is infuriating that us mere mortals can't see even any highlights of the tests!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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It is infuriating that us mere mortals can't see even any highlights of the tests!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ask a friend with sky for there password. You can use it on two extra devices. My dad has it in Cornwall and me and my brother watch sky on our PC's in London.
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Cook was dropped twice last night.. Hardly 'going well' considering the wicket and crap WI
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Cook was dropped twice last night.. Hardly 'going well' considering the wicket and crap WI
Exactly they need to go big here both of them, the bowling really cant get much worse for test standards.
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Seems that most batsmen this series have got rid of the scuff sheets. Probably something to do with hotspot not being there?
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I dunno....maybe it's the new trend,maybe some of them read the forum? Trott's looks like he's been filming Hostel 4 and has been using his as an axe.
Anyway we now know scuff sheets do jack diddly. it's retro style back to linseed oil,sand,oil,sand,oil,sand repeat for 25 years
right? :) :)
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Something I have noticed this afternoon.
From Nasser Alastair has been watching videos of himself batting a couple of years ago and even beyond that.
Steve Finn the other day said he had gone away and watched old videos of himself to try and get back his old (better) action (cant find the exact bit, but it was in those Guardian articles the other day)
I read something from Broad earlier today and for the life of me cant remember where (possibly BBC but cannot find it now) where he said he had gone away and watched old videos and that lead to him coming through the crease slightly wider, allowing a stronger hip drive and therefore getting faster results.
It might just be coincidence, or is this a new coaching method ignore what you have been told these last few years and just do what you did when you came though / where good
Perhaps this is the undoing of micro management of Saker et al?
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I always go back and watch videos of my performance. Some of you may recognise my sofa. ;)
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Absolutley
spot on.
The England 'team' is too big,too bloated.Unless you take the view the players are thick,they should work it out for themselves.
Not quite 'the coach is there to drive us to and from games(warne)' but we have had far too many advisers off the field in recent years.
I hope it changes
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stats tell you everything...
4 50's from cook's last 7 test innings.
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Had Phil tuffnel been dropped from tms? He was always one of my favourites.
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sleeping bags out, Cook and Trott are settling in for the duration (famous last words).
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It might just be coincidence, or is this a new coaching method ignore what you have been told these last few years and just do what you did when you came though / where good
Perhaps this is the undoing of micro management of Saker et al?
This would be the logical progression from what they learned with Jimmy around 2006/7. If you're presented with a naturall talented 24 year old who's worked his way to be in the best eleven players in the country without having heard from you, the best thing is... totally change every detail of what they do?
It seems obviously stupid now we know, I hope it is them realising that and I hope they continue.
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sleeping bags out, Cook and Trott are settling in for the duration (famous last words).
Trott out - got a bit giddy and tried to play an expansive shot. Should've stuck to nudging it.
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Trott out - got a bit giddy and tried to play an expansive shot. Should've stuck to nudging it.
Trott Nicks one.. Gone
Cooks been dropped twice and lbw once and still there #ECBsMan
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Cheque in the post to the Windies to help out with that little India bill ;-)
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Alastair Cook such a dud, on a flat road and an average attack, still can't get 100.
Potentially 2 innings left for him in this series. Then he'll get pensioned off by NZ and AUS.
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The mentally weak Ian Bell fails another wicket to Gabriel. 3/164
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Gerry is back again I see!. For all those in the real world " Bell plays on trying to cut a long hop", that's normally unlucky in most parts of the world.
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Hi Gerry mate you ok buddy I worry about you
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Nick is clearly deluded. Long hops don't occure at 86/87mph...
And Dave no need to worry about me fella.
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Cook is actually averaging 60 from his last 5 tests.
What standard of cricket do you play Gerry? If it was as easy as you make out, the lot of us would be scoring tons every Saturday.
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Cook is actually averaging 60 from his last 5 tests.
What standard of cricket do you play Gerry? If it was as easy as you make out, the lot of us would be scoring tons every Saturday.
Cook's averaging 60 against the likes of india and the Windies. Hardly something to tell the grandkids
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127.66 against the Aussies in 2010 when we took the Ashes away from home
any good?
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(http://inmyskinnygenes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Trolls.jpg)
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Cook is actually averaging 60 from his last 5 tests.
What standard of cricket do you play Gerry? If it was as easy as you make out, the lot of us would be scoring tons every Saturday.
You aren't seriously defending Cooks form ?? The guy is in free fall and has been for 2 years. Simple facts are that he's only still there because of downton, Clarke, flower, whittiker investing their jobs in him being the anti kp
Today's innings was another poor display from him vs a WI even weaker than the first test. He was dropped survived multiple times on umpires call.. Not exactly the Cook of 2010 so one good series 5 years ago ant keep him in the team
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127.66 against the Aussies in 2010 when we took the Ashes away from home
any good?
And the four other Ashes series he's averaged 27 or less? More par for the course.
2010/11 Ashes was merely a fluke.
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And the four other Ashes series he's averaged 27 or less? More par for the course.
2010/11 Ashes was merely a fluke.
Sadly I agree with Gerry :(
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Well we will see Adi in the next year something we will not be saying about the pillock I hope
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Well we will see Adi in the next year something we will not be saying about the pillock I hope
Maybe, maybe not. Unfortunately Cook represents one side, Kp the other. Kp was dropped for no reason when form didn't deserve it.. Cook is so out of form but is being kept on purely because he has to be otherwise those ECB clowns lose face.
Tbh, it's wrong on so many levels just ignoring it isn't really the answer
Sky showed the stats and showed that Compton should still be opening.. He's not.. Why, probably Cook. It's just one error after another fro the current lot, all needs clearing out
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KP was dropped because of weak management and the fact he is a tit (yes international level should be able to manage it better but it didn't happen).
There a reason his kit was thrown out o the Notts window and him to be told to bugger off.
Look at how you will opinions as you say
I'm just enjoying the cricket watching Grut and Ballance no negativity if he comes back fair play but he too has to prove it by scoring runs
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I'm just enjoying the cricket watching Grut and Ballance
This is what keeps the wrong people in power and out of form players picking up huge wedges even when not performing
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And you negativity is doing what ???
Cook is averaging 60 in his last 5 tests it test cricket you score what your against.
Was Root not in bad form they held faith more faith than I had ye he has come bloody good.
Broad may put egg on people's face too and I suspect Anderson will once he is back home
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And you negativity is doing what ???
Cook is averaging 60 in his last 5 tests it test cricket you score what your against.
Was Root not in bad form they held faith more faith than I had ye he has come bloody good.
Broad may put egg on people's face too and I suspect Anderson will once he is back home
Everyone knows Anderson will hoop it at home, that's not a surprise or putting any egg.
Broads been bowling 80, hardly test match quality
Root wasn't in poor form for that long though! That's the point
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Rooooooooooot!!!
Keep scoring runs young man and don't fall for the captaincy trap!
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Roooooooooooooooooooot.
Got to be moving further up those test rankings now. Should be well in the top ten soon.
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Root has to be the positive to come from English cricket 2013 onwards. He did well, was found out a bit, adapted and has come back stronger again.
Fair one
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Maybe, maybe not. Unfortunately Cook represents one side, Kp the other. Kp was dropped for no reason when form didn't deserve it.. Cook is so out of form but is being kept on purely because he has to be otherwise those ECB clowns lose face.
Tbh, it's wrong on so many levels just ignoring it isn't really the answer
Sky showed the stats and showed that Compton should still be opening.. He's not.. Why, probably Cook. It's just one error after another fro the current lot, all needs clearing out
Cook represents one side,KP the other-what like good verses evil you mean? What is it with this forum it's so anti Cook its beyond belief!! yes youre right,Downton whittaker and all are part of the establishment,its no good and needs changing.its been like that for years and will take ages to change.Cook cannot possibly be responsible for all these problems just because he didnt grow up in the (No Swearing Please) end of london.Compton got a raw deal-yes he did-agree 100 per cent,Lyth should be opening-yes right again but im sorry kevin pieterson is history and good riddance.Whatever has happened and theres fault on both sides has gone-we move on with root,ballance etc because they are young enough to improve.Pieterson used England and England used him-that period is gone.England tattoos or not he's a mercenary cricketer who now realises what he is missing.tough!
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Sorry about the colourful language admin it wasnt such a bad word...!! :)
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Cook represents one side,KP the other-what like good verses evil you mean? What is it with this forum it's so anti Cook its beyond belief!! yes youre right,Downton whittaker and all are part of the establishment,its no good and needs changing.its been like that for years and will take ages to change.Cook cannot possibly be responsible for all these problems just because he didnt grow up in the (No Swearing Please) end of london.Compton got a raw deal-yes he did-agree 100 per cent,Lyth should be opening-yes right again but im sorry kevin pieterson is history and good riddance.Whatever has happened and theres fault on both sides has gone-we move on with root,ballance etc because they are young enough to improve.Pieterson used England and England used him-that period is gone.England tattoos or not he's a mercenary cricketer who now realises what he is missing.tough!
Cook vs Kp represents the failings though.. Ie Kp is kicked out for nothing .. Cook can fail,miserably for years and be about the worst capt ever and still.. Still survive
Both should be gone, both should be playing Lvcc and only bk playing for eng if they scored the runs needed
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Joe Root adapted after he was found out? Like hell did he. Instead of showing balls and remaining an opener. He opted to go hide at #5 and feast on the ordinary attacks Sri Lanka and India offered up. Let's not forget he averages in the 30s against New Zealand and Australia, who have proper fast bowlers.
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Joe Root adapted after he was found out? Like hell did he. Instead of showing balls and remaining an opener. He opted to go hide at #5 and feast on the ordinary attacks Sri Lanka and India offered up. Let's not forget he averages in the 30s against New Zealand and Australia, who have proper fast bowlers.
You mean like Cook Gerry? Stick it out and not hide-go in first when youre bang out of form and try to do a job so others can have it easier? Is that what you mean?
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Joe Root adapted after he was found out? Like hell did he. Instead of showing balls and remaining an opener. He opted to go hide at #5 and feast on the ordinary attacks Sri Lanka and India offered up. Let's not forget he averages in the 30s against New Zealand and Australia, who have proper fast bowlers.
Root has changed, so yes.. He's adapted. Cook hasn't and now is paying the price. Today he got some runs.. Why
A) wicket is dead
B) bowling is crap
C) they didn't bowling disciplined lines at him, slowing him to feast on his usual leg side and short bowling. NZ, aus and other decent attacks won't do that. That is why these WI innings are meaningless . Just as KP's runs vs a god awful mccu side were meaningless
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According to stats of English openers since 2010.
Maybe root should still be opening?
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h76/smilley792/Screenshot_2015-04-23-20-56-19_zpsuo08jesr.png) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/smilley792/media/Screenshot_2015-04-23-20-56-19_zpsuo08jesr.png.html)
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According to stats of English openers since 2010.
Maybe root should still be opening?
([url]http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h76/smilley792/Screenshot_2015-04-23-20-56-19_zpsuo08jesr.png[/url]) ([url]http://s61.photobucket.com/user/smilley792/media/Screenshot_2015-04-23-20-56-19_zpsuo08jesr.png.html[/url])
Root would have to grow a pair to open again...not likely to happen anytime soon.
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Root has changed, so yes.. He's adapted. Cook hasn't and now is paying the price. Today he got some runs.. Why
A) wicket is dead
B) bowling is crap
C) they didn't bowling disciplined lines at him, slowing him to feast on his usual leg side and short bowling. NZ, aus and other decent attacks won't do that. That is why these WI innings are meaningless . Just as KP's runs vs a god awful mccu side were meaningless
Why bring Kevin Pietersen into a debate about Alastair Cook?
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Why bring Kevin Pietersen into a debate about Alastair Cook?
Because the ECB has linked their fates
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Root has changed, so yes.. He's adapted. Cook hasn't and now is paying the price. Today he got some runs.. Why
A) wicket is dead
B) bowling is crap
C) they didn't bowling disciplined lines at him, slowing him to feast on his usual leg side and short bowling. NZ, aus and other decent attacks won't do that. That is why these WI innings are meaningless . Just as KP's runs vs a god awful mccu side were meaningless
Do you have a big KP poster up in your room and cry at it nightly whilst declaring "You will be back"
Linked there fates Cook will go on to beat records pal i suspect against test playing nations
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Do you have a big KP poster up in your room and cry at it nightly whilst declaring "You will be back"
Linked there fates Cook will go on to beat records pal i suspect against test playing nations
With regard to Cook and records he is now second in the list of England's all time run scorers 377 runs behind Gooch.
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With regard to Cook and records he is now second in the list of England's all time run scorers 377 runs behind Gooch.
Yes mate and with a decent summer he could move up among some really esteemed people.
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Let's be honest runs are runs. Yes runs against tough opposition are more valuable and stick longer in the memory, but all greats do buffer their averages against poorer opposition. Recent examples that spring to mind being Amla against the Windies at home, and Sangakarra throughout his career against Bangladesh (triple centuries etc.). That's not to discredit them as players, as the runs still take scoring otherwise everyone would be able to do it.
Root is a fine player and has a good head on his shoulders. He will be world class if he can sustain anywhere near this level of maturity for the next few years, and translate it into one day form. Just because he couldn't open against NZ or Aus doesn't make him gutless. De Villiers could never be an opener, but that doesn't make him any worse of a player. They are both stroke makers and accumulate runs very quickly (not to say they're on the same level yet).
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Ali runs himself out! what a waste on a flat pitch
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Let's be honest runs are runs. Yes runs against tough opposition are more valuable and stick longer in the memory, but all greats do buffer their averages against poorer opposition. Recent examples that spring to mind being Amla against the Windies at home, and Sangakarra throughout his career against Bangladesh (triple centuries etc.). That's not to discredit them as players, as the runs still take scoring otherwise everyone would be able to do it.
Root is a fine player and has a good head on his shoulders. He will be world class if he can sustain anywhere near this level of maturity for the next few years, and translate it into one day form. Just because he couldn't open against NZ or Aus doesn't make him gutless. De Villiers could never be an opener, but that doesn't make him any worse of a player. They are both stroke makers and accumulate runs very quickly (not to say they're on the same level yet).
I'd wager you AB could be an opener if he chose to do so. AB could also achieve world peace
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Rooooooooooooooooooottt!!!!
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Joe Root feasting on these sub standard attacks...Will soon be humiliated again when he runs into the Kiwis and Aussies
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Let's wait and see Mystic Meg.
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Let's wait and see Mystic Meg.
History backs what I've stated.
Root won't be facing 80mph dobbers from Boult, Southee, Johnson, Harris etc
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Do you have a big KP poster up in your room and cry at it nightly whilst declaring "You will be back"
Linked there fates Cook will go on to beat records pal i suspect against test playing nations
So might Kp,have if he wasn't wrongly dropped. Cooks form deserves to be dropped.. Duel standards and can't up just be forgot with a 'move on' ECB slogan
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I'd wager you AB could be an opener if he chose to do so. AB could also achieve world peace
Ab did open didn't he??
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Interesting to note that Cookie will probably go past Viv Richards' career runs in this test, and from 10 less tests.
Not saying he's better, just saying that whilst in a slump - he's hardly rubbish.
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Joe Root feasting on these sub standard attacks...Will soon be humiliated again when he runs into the Kiwis and Aussies
Gerry, you are indeed a plum. A troll of the highest order.
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Got to love samules' reaction to stokes getting out. Priceless!
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funnier was the way Stokes couldn't hold his tongue!
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The send off was pretty funny though
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Stokes is really annoying, obviously got issues e.g. punching the locker.
Earlier in the test he gave the batsman a huge earful, then followed it with a wide full toss.
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Stokes just needs to channel it. He's still only a puppy. Always fun to watch two players who really don't like each other!
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nowt wrong with a bit of pantomime...
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Stokes is a ginger hothead! But he's a talent,no doubting that. I'd much rather someone with a bit of fire in them. If all the players were like Bell,Cook etc it would all be a bit boring.
Root absolute quality,a world class talent. Definitely something to get excited about as an England fan!
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Hmmm...surely he's about to be declared a bad influence and sent back to drinks waiterin...sorry, I mean, Yorkshire to work on his game whilst another of Cookie's old muckers is selected :)
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IF you believe the whispers coming out of last year's Ashes, Root was dropped as a kick up the proverbial due to his following KP around like a little Yorkshire terrier. If you believe the cricket journos...
IF you were to believe that, possibly a case could be stated for that metaphorical size 10 turning Root into the player he is at present. It's one opinion of many...
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and IF you were to believe that you MIGHT also believe they wanted him to stand on his own two feet.
The lad has got 'it' whatever 'it' is I havnt seen and England player play better for a long while
true..as has been pointed out in last night heated 'discussion' it's down the order, not opening.Not everyone can open.And how many think Thorpe was our best player over a period back in the day....?
Ballance looks the part too.
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Thorpe was a great player in that team. Very consistent and had had a very good run.
Also, a case study of when selectors get it right by saying thank you for everything, but we're going to move on.
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Nah Thorpe Should be kept his place instead of Bell for the 05 ashes. Don't know why the media always framed it as Thorpe v kp.
Bell wasn't ready for tests, but flayed Bangladesh to all parts to guarantee his place.
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Didn't Thorpe "retire" before the 05 Ashes squad was announced though?
I always assumed they told him he wouldn't be playing so he stepped aside with no fuss
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I think he retired a couple of days into the first test, after being dropped.
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yes England wanted KP in for the Ashes instead of Thorpe. From memory I think Thorpe just got to 100 tests and then the tap on the shoulder....
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that was badly handled at the time, but proved right in the end...
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yes indeed it was, KP brought something new to the team and hadn't known defeat against the Aussies..back then we got hammered home and away against them.
agree about Bell thou, terrific player now but was all at sea against the -05 Austrialians
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Exactly, Should be been Thorpe and kp, no ball!
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Absolutely it should have been Thorpe, although the desired result was achieved. Vaughan I recall at the time wanted as many players with 'baggage' from losing to the Aussies out. Bell was unproven, but so was KP, so that was probably the overriding call on Thorpe.
Thorpe wasn't best pleased in his autobiography!
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Thorpe had back problems if I remember correctly at the time(is that right?) and was coming to the end, but a high class player for us back then-got us out of the mire many times and faced down the West Indies bowlers, and the Aussies with success.
Best England player of spin since......hmmm I don't know, Gooch maybe.
they say sport is cyclical, Thorpe was replaced by a young KP, KP is replaced by a young Root...
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Thorpe had back problems if I remember correctly at the time(is that right?) and was coming to the end, but a high class player for us back then-got us out of the mire many times and faced down the West Indies bowlers, and the Aussies with success.
Best England player of spin since......hmmm I don't know, Gooch maybe.
they say sport is cyclical, Thorpe was replaced by a young KP, KP is replaced by a young Root...
But KP & Root played in the same team for ages?
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Crikey!! We're buggering up a decent lead here aren't we? Two run outs in this innings - daft!!
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Broad hasn't batted long enough recently to waste a review but today he's back to wasting one.
Surely it's time for Anderson to bat higher than him?
He still doesn't want to leave the crease!
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Crikey!! We're buggering up a decent lead here aren't we? Two run outs in this innings - daft!!
It's complete dross. Loads of time left in the game and no need to be silly when Root is batting wonderfully well. The middle lower order ought to get a right earful. 132 lead when you were 30 ahead and only 3 down on a featherbed against an average attack is very poor. It also opens the game up for the Windies, anything over 300 gives them something to bowl at on the last day. Let's hope Jimmy hangs around for an hour and nudges us up to 160-170 at least.
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it may be the best thing for the match.....it needs to move forward as it's been slow. The windies are not pressing the game at all
this way there is more chance of a result...and we need to win
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But KP & Root played in the same team for ages?
yes you are right,they did for a while. I was thinking more long term.but yes,not an instant change over like Thorpe 2004 and KP 2005
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Sums it up, what an idiot. Why didn't batsman 6-11 activate a brain cell (Jordan excluded). Root could of taken the lead to 250 plus just after lunch and left 4.5 sessions to bowl them.
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Well that was ridiculous from Anderson, Root is rightly fuming with him.
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anyone else notice that our two best players have been the Yorkshire lads...
...even more reason to wonder why four more of em are sitting on the bench!
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anyone else notice that our two best players have been the Yorkshire lads...
...even more reason to wonder why four more of em are sitting on the bench!
Harare's in Yorkshire now is it?
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Harare's in Yorkshire now is it?
Hehehe Balance was created outta Sheffield Steel - did nowt before he came to us!
(actually even that's not entirely true, but if the Yarpies can claim Imran Tahir and the Aussies Fawad Alam, both of whom emigrated in their 30s, then we'll have the lad who arrived as a 13 year old)
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Broad bowling gas
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Interesting to note that Cookie will probably go past Viv Richards' career runs in this test, and from 10 less tests.
Not saying he's better, just saying that whilst in a slump - he's hardly rubbish.
That maybe, but do you remember any of them. Cook could average 100 and have scored fifty 100's but he's no entertainer and dull to watch. His name shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as King Viv!
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That maybe, but do you remember any of them. Cook could average 100 and have scored fifty 100's but he's no entertainer and dull to watch. His name shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as King Viv!
[/quote
He should also have been dropped already, but he's the ECB and their followers poster boy. Fall in behind team ethic
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I love test cricket but this is so boring!
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Excellent stuff from West Indies on a flat pitch.
England can't have any complaints given they had the best of the bowling and batting conditions. Should have bowled them out cheaper and scored a lot more.
A leg spinner or a left arm spinner might have been useful. Jordan has been pretty useless as he was in the first test.
Think the umpires have been pretty pathetic allowing England to have meetings and drinks every over. Get on with the game!
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I love test cricket but this is so boring!
Nah, it's good test cricket. Batsmen have to be watchful, bowlers have to show discipline. Would like a slightly better wicket ideally but this at least means it's not a slog fest
Tbh, a high class spinner would do well on it.. Neither team has them so it's being shown up
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I've always rated young Kraigg Brathwaite and it's good to see the Kid doing well. Still only 22 and has bagged 4 Test hundreds.
England's attack is rubbish though. Lacking a 150kph fast bowler and a proper spinner. This suggestion that Moeen Ali can bowl is a joke. Getting wickets vs India is like getting runs vs India eg meaningless.
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I've always rated young Kraigg Brathwaite and it's good to see the Kid doing well. Still only 22 and has bagged 4 Test hundreds.
England's attack is rubbish though. Lacking a 150kph fast bowler and a proper spinner. This suggestion that Moeen Ali can bowl is a joke. Getting wickets vs India is like getting runs vs India eg meaningless.
Most test nations are lacking a 150kph bowler and descent spinner. NZ have descent fast bowlers but no 150's and no spinner. Australia have a couple pushing the 150 mark but still search for someone half as good as Warne. SA opening bowlers are losing speed every time I see them, but are still world class, and have they never had a descent spinner. India have descent enough spinners but have always lacked pace (Aaron et al are getting there).
Teams are still looking for that "Warne" spinner. You only have to look at how many spinners Australia, NZ, SA, England have been through over the last decade. There have been a couple of notable mentions: Swann and Vettori, Herath and Narine.
Even though Lyon has not been great I commend Australia for sticking with him. It seems like new spinners get a few tests to prove their worth otherwise they are discarded.
Whether England stick with Ali or not, they need to settle on one spinner and put their trust in him.
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Nah, it's good test cricket. Batsmen have to be watchful, bowlers have to show discipline. Would like a slightly better wicket ideally but this at least means it's not a slog fest
Tbh, a high class spinner would do well on it.. Neither team has them so it's being shown up
I know what you mean about the approach of the batsmen but the pitch just doesn't match the teams on show. You are spot on about the spinner situation and I guess this is why I'm finding it so boring to watch. There is assistance in the pitch but without a good spinner on show there is no major threat to batsmen. I know Ali had a good summer last year but he is not the same bowler. He's bowling so flat and more often than not short aswell. Why oh why has England's approach of using specialists gone out of the window in all formats! What is wrong with picking 11 roles in the team and then filling those with names rather than filling names and attaching roles to them.
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I know what you mean about the approach of the batsmen but the pitch just doesn't match the teams on show. You are spot on about the spinner situation and I guess this is why I'm finding it so boring to watch. There is assistance in the pitch but without a good spinner on show there is no major threat to batsmen. I know Ali had a good summer last year but he is not the same bowler. He's bowling so flat and more often than not short aswell. Why oh why has England's approach of using specialists gone out of the window in all formats! What is wrong with picking 11 roles in the team and then filling those with names rather than filling names and attaching roles to them.
eng have always be scared of 'only' having 6-7 batsmen. They love having all those bits and pieces guys. Unfortunately unless they are true all rounders (botham, flintoff etc) it's pointless.
NZ have Milne who is 150kph isn't he? Henry is nearly there or there too in the World Cup I seem to remember (happy to be corrected)
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eng have always be scared of 'only' having 6-7 batsmen. They love having all those bits and pieces guys. Unfortunately unless they are true all rounders (botham, flintoff etc) it's pointless.
NZ have Milne who is 150kph isn't he? Henry is nearly there or there too in the World Cup I seem to remember (happy to be corrected)
Milne can crack 150kph every now and then. Henry? I don't think he's ever cracked 150 tbh. Milne's always injured too.
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It goes back to England having a long tail In the 90s, Fletcher has always wanted his bowlers to be able to bat a bit and he probably has a point. Ali needs more bowling, that's what swann has been saying on TMS and, to be fair, I'd take his opinion on spinners. He really rates him.
As a country who have always been looking for the next botham, Flintoff, etc, we may be guilty of trying to shoe horn too many all rounders in to the side, instead of bowlers who can bat a bit, or too many of the same type of bowlers. It's obvious that the lifeless tracks that have been designed for the windies to draw matches on are not suited to the four quicks we've selected. Should've picked Rashid...
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Most test nations are lacking a 150kph bowler and descent spinner. NZ have descent fast bowlers but no 150's and no spinner. Australia have a couple pushing the 150 mark but still search for someone half as good as Warne. SA opening bowlers are losing speed every time I see them, but are still world class, and have they never had a descent spinner. India have descent enough spinners but have always lacked pace (Aaron et al are getting there).
Teams are still looking for that "Warne" spinner. You only have to look at how many spinners Australia, NZ, SA, England have been through over the last decade. There have been a couple of notable mentions: Swann and Vettori, Herath and Narine.
Even though Lyon has not been great I commend Australia for sticking with him. It seems like new spinners get a few tests to prove their worth otherwise they are discarded.
Whether England stick with Ali or not, they need to settle on one spinner and put their trust in him.
Totally missed my point. New Zealand might not have anyone bowling 150kph, but they have two left armers. Two very different left armers as well might I add. Something different for the batsmen to think about.
South Africa have a couple of promising spinners it's not like we are back to the days of Paul Harris and Morkel adds the heat with his 150kph short stuff.
Whereas England always go in with these 4 medium paced dobbers. All right armers. No variety. Plunkett was supposedly bowling 145/150kph yet he's just sitting on the bench...
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And let's be honest about Moeen Ali, England jumped on the hype created by Pakistani chucker Saeed Ajmal. Both played county cricket together and Ajmal was bigging him up. Well now Ajmal is a joke and Ali's finding out that unless you play the hapless Indians it's hard work earning wickets at Test level.
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eng have always be scared of 'only' having 6-7 batsmen. They love having all those bits and pieces guys. Unfortunately unless they are true all rounders (botham, flintoff etc) it's pointless.
NZ have Milne who is 150kph isn't he? Henry is nearly there or there too in the World Cup I seem to remember (happy to be corrected)
you are stop on
Ever since Botham England have been trying to find another great all all rounder and ended up with picking players who were not good enough for the role as you say we had Flintoff but unfortunately has we know he had among other injuries knee problems. Until there is someone playing County cricket with genuine all rounder potential The selectors now need to to forget picking these bits and pieces players
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Totally missed my point. New Zealand might not have anyone bowling 150kph, but they have two left armers. Two very different left armers as well might I add. Something different for the batsmen to think about.
South Africa have a couple of promising spinners it's not like we are back to the days of Paul Harris and Morkel adds the heat with his 150kph short stuff.
Whereas England always go in with these 4 medium paced dobbers. All right armers. No variety. Plunkett was supposedly bowling 145/150kph yet he's just sitting on the bench...
This is kind of what I've been saying the last 18 months or so - it isn't that England don't have a good attack, they are just far too conservative to actually fiddle around and work out what it should be. In general terms:
Mid 80s right arm swingers - Anderson, Woakes, Jordan, Broad, Brooks, Wood, Stokes, Onions
Around 90 - Plunkett, Finn, Overton
Left arm gas - Mills, Footitt
Left arm not quite so gas - Topley, Willey
Leg Spin - Rashid
Left Arm spin - Panesar
Off Breaks - Ali, Riley
Should be able, with a bit of experimentation, to cobble together a decent, varied attack out of that...but instead you will almost exclusively get four of the first category plus Ali to shore up the batting (though his batting average is closer to Nathan Lyon's than Joe Root's...)
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Replace Moeen with Rashid and Jordan with Plunkett,I'll be far happier.Stokes/Butler/Rashid at 6/7/8 should be enough and Plunkett can bat as well.
Jordan isn't going to win us test matches!
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And Mahmood sorry Plunkett is ????
We talk about out and out quick yes but what about a bit of skill take a look at Boult and go.
One thing being gas another being good enough
We are following again because Australia have a plethora of quicks we get fascinated again
Ha Plunkett become England saviour
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Had England taken Panesar I think they would of played two spinners in this test. Shame they didn't trust rashid.
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Haha Plunkett aka Mahmood :-[
Fair enough,maybe give Wood a go then?Standard treatment of a leggie by England with Rashid.
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Meanwhile the West Indies have decided to be gracious hosts and donate a test victory to England
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Moronic batting from the Windies today. Some terrible shots played.
Anyway England set 143 to win.
Gabriel gets Trott for a duck. Trott looks a real passenger in the side.
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I've just noticed Cook has gone back to an older style helmet / grill combo.
Adjustable grill with the gap at its widest setting. Apologies if it's been mentioned before but I wonder if increased visibility will help his batting?
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And Mahmood sorry Plunkett is ????
We talk about out and out quick yes but what about a bit of skill take a look at Boult and go.
Lets be fair here - as one of three seamers...no, probabaly not. But as one of four, used as he was a couple of times in the summer to bowl short sharp spells...he may not be Brett Lee but he gives the attack some variety.
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I've just noticed Cook has gone back to an older style helmet / grill combo.
Adjustable grill with the gap at its widest setting. Apologies if it's been mentioned before but I wonder if increased visibility will help his batting?
Should do I did the same to stop me losing sight of the ball in the grill when looking directly down with my head over the ball.
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Bit gutted the West Indies middle order have gifted this test to England. Yes I want us to win, but we'll now go into the last test with the same team. This will be very disappointing and will teach us nothing about the rest of the squad.
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I've always rated young Kraigg Brathwaite and it's good to see the Kid doing well. Still only 22 and has bagged 4 Test hundreds.
England's attack is rubbish though. Lacking a 150kph fast bowler and a proper spinner. This suggestion that Moeen Ali can bowl is a joke. Getting wickets vs India is like getting runs vs India eg meaningless.
Don't think I missed your point here #Gerry SA. You said they lacked a 150kph bowler and a proper spinner. You said nothing about variety.
Anyway I agree that they in fact do lack variety. I was just pointing out that most teams lack proper fast bowlers and a descent spinner.
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Don't think I missed your point here #Gerry SA. You said they lacked a 150kph bowler and a proper spinner. You said nothing about variety.
Anyway I agree that they in fact do lack variety. I was just pointing out that most teams lack proper fast bowlers and a descent spinner.
Well I assumed that by having a 150kph bowler it would be a form a variety. But yeah probably should've worded it better.
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Gary Ballance racking up these freebie runs for fun. Averages 70+ against the hopeless/hapless Indians, S. Lankans and W. Indians.
Lets see him against NZ and AUS...
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Gary Ballance racking up these freebie runs for fun. Averages 70+ against the hopeless/hapless Indians, S. Lankans and W. Indians.
Lets see him against NZ and AUS...
May be right but that first list seems to be getting longer doesn't it?
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May be right but that first list seems to be getting longer doesn't it?
SA, AUS and NZ are the only three attacks that actually challenge batsmen.
But if you feel SL, IND(both away from home) and WI are big challenges - I think you're crazy :o
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SA, AUS and NZ are the only three attacks that actually challenge batsmen.
But if you feel SL, IND(both away from home) and WI are big challenges - I think you're crazy :o
Can't believe you are knocking a guy averaging 70+ in test cricket at the start of his career. I would be surprised if his average didnt go down but not many test batsman average 70 in their first dozen tests. Maybe you can name a few?
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Can't believe you are knocking a guy averaging 70+ in test cricket at the start of his career. I would be surprised if his average didnt go down but not many test batsman average 70 in their first dozen tests. Maybe you can name a few?
Jimmy Adams?
Michael Hussey?
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I'm sure there was a quite a few watching the windies bowling thinking the average clubbie could bowl better?
Watching Ballance bat, he looks to have a lot of time on the ball,,,would like to see if it's the same against the Aussies
And Cooks, trigger looks so exaggerated ?
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England won... That's nothing special as they should be beating the WI. It's still concerning its such a struggle though.
Cook has scored a few runs vs weak bowling that fed his strong shits and didn't bowl into his known weak area.. Decent bowling won't do that so his runs are meaningless unless you are pro ECB/pro Cook.
Trott is not an opener, get the poor lad back to 3/6 or drop him
Ballance hasn't faced anything decent so hard to actually judge him, however!! Give him his dues, he's faced crap teams and avg's 70+.. That's what too 6 batsmen should be doing regularly to these teams (if not higher if you are actually that good)
Root filling his bots still, weak attack yes but again.. Least he's smashing runs consistently against them.
As for Ali, tredwell, Jordan etc. couldn't agree more with the previous posters about same old same old bowlers and bits and pieces ones
All in all, England should win the series 3-0 and win easily. Anything else is a failure
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Anderson up to a career high 2nd in the rankings.
Not bad for a clubbie!
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/32474461 (http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/32474461)
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Maybe we can not be so pessimistic all the time and enjoy the fact that England won. Wait, sorry. That would be totally un-English of us. ???
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Anderson up to a career high 2nd in the rankings.
Not bad for a clubbie!
[url]http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/32474461[/url] ([url]http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/32474461[/url])
You know second is the first loser. #ClubmanAnderson
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England won... That's nothing special as they should be beating the WI. It's still concerning its such a struggle though.
Cook has scored a few runs vs weak bowling that fed his strong shits and didn't bowl into his known weak area.. Decent bowling won't do that so his runs are meaningless unless you are pro ECB/pro Cook.
Trott is not an opener, get the poor lad back to 3/6 or drop him
Ballance hasn't faced anything decent so hard to actually judge him, however!! Give him his dues, he's faced crap teams and avg's 70+.. That's what too 6 batsmen should be doing regularly to these teams (if not higher if you are actually that good)
Root filling his bots still, weak attack yes but again.. Least he's smashing runs consistently against them.
As for Ali, tredwell, Jordan etc. couldn't agree more with the previous posters about same old same old bowlers and bits and pieces ones
All in all, England should win the series 3-0 and win easily. Anything else is a failure
Win is a Win
Runs are Runs
Wickets are Wickets.
For some it will not be enough for me it currently is you can only beat what your against and we did it and did it well
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You know second is the first loser. #ClubmanAnderson
[/
Haha ridiculous comment, and why are you using hashtags? This isn't twitter...
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You know second is the first loser. #ClubmanAnderson
Ha ha.
Just like AB DeVilliers with the bat then ;-)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Ha ha.
Just like AB DeVilliers with the bat then ;-)
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Difference being AB de Villiers has been ranked #1. Whereas Anderson will never get to #1
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Oh well, when clubbie Anderson climbs above clubbie Steyn after the next test match, then they'll all be in the same club together... ;)
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England win against the odds, Cook gets runs in both innings, ballance and Root show they are the future and Jimmy A pulls it out to show he is the most skilful bowler in world cricket
what is not to be pleased about.
Just need to sort out a couple of positions(stokes or Jordan-not both) and we are ready to take on the better teams
howzat :) :) :o Gerry SA?
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Oh well, when clubbie Anderson climbs above clubbie Steyn after the next test match, then they'll all be in the same club together... ;)
Anderson above Steyn 😂😂😂
Mental midget Anderson will be retired by South Africa in the upcoming tour.
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Jimmy A pulls it out to show he is the most skilful bowler in world cricket
Most skilful bowler? Who you kidding?
Anderson recent 'form' has been based on bullying the also rans SL, IND and WI.
Remind me what Anderson did in the Ashes? Ah yes he got smashed around like a clubbie. Worst of all Bailey smashed the clubbie for 28 in an over. Ultimate humilation.
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Anderson above Steyn [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
Mental midget Anderson will be retired by South Africa in the upcoming tour.
I'm glad your enjoying that image Gerry. The upcoming tour? You Mean SA in Bangladesh? More valuable wickets I'm sure...
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I'm glad your enjoying that image Gerry. The upcoming tour? You Mean SA in Bangladesh? More valuable wickets I'm sure...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Upcoming in the sense December time eg later this year.
Valuable wickets? 😂😂😂
Seems like Anderson's mediocre career is propped up by bullying the dreadful WI and going missing against SA/AUS
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Most skilful bowler? Who you kidding?
Anderson recent 'form' has been based on bullying the also rans SL, IND and WI.
Remind me what Anderson did in the Ashes? Ah yes he got smashed around like a clubbie. Worst of all Bailey smashed the clubbie for 28 in an over. Ultimate humilation.
the great bowlers of all-time, currently still alive, rate Anderson very highly indeed.The game is very much batsman dominated it's quite a feat to get past Botham in about he same number of matches.
You watch the verdict with Big Bad Bob Willis? he gives praise out like he has to pay for it out of his own pocket.
These guys rate Anderson, Grenada was a flat deck-he made something happen,that spell won us the game
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the great bowlers of all-time, currently still alive, rate Anderson very highly indeed.The game is very much batsman dominated it's quite a feat to get past Botham in about he same number of matches.
You watch the verdict with Big Bad Bob Willis? he gives praise out like he has to pay for it out of his own pocket.
These guys rate Anderson, Grenada was a flat deck-he made something happen,that spell won us the game
So English retired players are bigging up the clubbie...
Shame no one else is.
Anderson is second/third tier as best.
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Always good to see the vitriol spew forth from you Gerry. Nice to know that you can't stand that Anderson has managed to climb up the rankings and be ahead of the other great South African bowlers on the list without deserving it...
What is it that you don't like about Jimmy A, other than the fact that, in your opinion he's no better than a clubbie bowler, (which I'm not sure that Tendulkar would agree with)? Is it just that he's English?
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So English retired players are bigging up the clubbie...
Shame no one else is.
Anderson is second/third tier as best.
In Dinesh Ramdin speak-
''Yeah Gerry,talk nah''
Anderson is one of the best around at the moment,2nd/3rd tier my rear end!Anderson has done well in Aus in the past,just not the last time.maybe you could look up his stats in 2010/11?
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Don't engage him Tim - he will sap your soul with his anti-British ramblings. We all know the Saffers secretly wish they had a bit of grit in their side such as Bell, Ali, Anderson and Woakes. That way they might actually win a tournament!
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Its just that he is an opportunity to troll.
If I said now that Len Hutton and Jack Hobbs were world class players, Gerry would argue that they were overrated and nowhere near as good as a slew of Yarpies. He doesn't even believe it himself, he just has a pathological need to annoy people.
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-england-2015/content/story/867179.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-england-2015/content/story/867179.html)
Interesting reading - not for the bollox about Trott, but more for the kind of names being bandied around for the ODI side and it's captain.
I laughed at Moores stating the game has changed and were are taking notice of this. Ha!!! Only two years too late Pete!!!
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From what I've heard and read since the second test from, with the greatest respect, ex pros who've forgotten more than we'll ever know about cricket and hacks that spend a lot more time watching cricket (and who aren't in the ECB's pocket, for the love of God...), is that we shouldn't underestimate a) Cook's form and how good he's looking in terms of footwork and head position, b) how good Anderson's last day performance was on a lifeless track prepared to nullify all types of bowling, c) how good Root and Ballance are and d) the potential of this England side. Swann and Vaughan, in particular, are offering some fantastic insight into the game and the positive direction England are headed in.
Have a read of this; I like the first sentence in particular...
http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-england-2015/content/story/866825.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-england-2015/content/story/866825.html)
I get that Gerry gets a kick out of winding Forumites up, I'd do the same if I had the free time. What I don't get is willing England players to fail. I've had players I've not been the greatest fans of in the past, preferring those left out over those selected, but never willed an England side and its component parts to fail. I'd be questioning my love for the game.
I can appreciate other countries players, to the point I would willingly admit to going to games to see special players play (Tendulkar, KP, Greenidge to name a few - sorry Gerry, never seen SA live, but would love to watch AB, Steyn and Amla in full flow...). Gerry; make the most of this, it's the only time I'm going to nibble - how many bowlers with over 390 test wickets are clubbies? The most wickets for your country, the longevity, the ability to swing a ball both ways and leading an test attack for eight years, during a time that multiple Ashes series are won and the team reached No.1 in the world (for however short a time) should command some form of respect.
As should Cook's 25 test hundreds.
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In Dinesh Ramdin speak-
''Yeah Gerry,talk nah''
Anderson is one of the best around at the moment,2nd/3rd tier my rear end!Anderson has done well in Aus in the past,just not the last time.maybe you could look up his stats in 2010/11?
Anderson has had one good series against AUS and that means he's some sort of watered down legend? 5 Ashes series and he's only shown up once. Says it all.
2010/11 was a fluke. Anderson and Cook both lucked out it that series.
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indeed Cat 50 up!
Hales and Roy should be in probably with James Vince too. James Taylor as Captain? that would be a big change for England to dump their Captain after a handful of games?
i'd be very surprised if Eoin Morgan does not get a chance to rebuild the team-similar to the time given to Cook(in tests)
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Upcoming in the sense December time eg later this year.
Valuable wickets? 😂😂😂
Seems like Anderson's mediocre career is propped up by bullying the dreadful WI and going missing against SA/AUS
Anderson ''going missing'' against Aus in 2010/11
JM Anderson Eng 213.1 50 625 24 26.04 0 0 4-44.
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Anderson currently ranked number 2 in the world not bad for a clubbie.
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http://www1.skysports.com/cricket/news/12932/9614484/dale-steyn-south-african-is-the-best-fast-bowler-in-the-world-says-bob-willis (http://www1.skysports.com/cricket/news/12932/9614484/dale-steyn-south-african-is-the-best-fast-bowler-in-the-world-says-bob-willis)
You guys love Bob, well Bob's word must be law...
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Anderson ''going missing'' against Aus in 2010/11
JM Anderson Eng 213.1 50 625 24 26.04 0 0 4-44.
Flash in the pan.
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[url]http://www1.skysports.com/cricket/news/12932/9614484/dale-steyn-south-african-is-the-best-fast-bowler-in-the-world-says-bob-willis[/url] ([url]http://www1.skysports.com/cricket/news/12932/9614484/dale-steyn-south-african-is-the-best-fast-bowler-in-the-world-says-bob-willis[/url])
You guys love Bob, well Bob's word must be law...
yeah Bob's right, I think we know that. No one is saying any different.
Nothing new to see here :)
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Admins, is there an ignore button so that if you click ignore on a member you don't see their posts?!
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Ah but you're missing the Gerry factor. :)
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[url]http://www1.skysports.com/cricket/news/12932/9614484/dale-steyn-south-african-is-the-best-fast-bowler-in-the-world-says-bob-willis[/url] ([url]http://www1.skysports.com/cricket/news/12932/9614484/dale-steyn-south-african-is-the-best-fast-bowler-in-the-world-says-bob-willis[/url])
You guys love Bob, well Bob's word must be law...
He is the best in the world isn't he? Has been for a while now. Don't see what your point is here.
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Stokes doubtful for 3rd test - clever money says slot in Plunko - but how about giving Rashid a run?
According to Boycs, England simply won't pick him - so if that is the case, I would have to slot in Tredders to spell some of the quicks, as apparently it's going to be very hot.
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Why are they so reluctant to pick Rashid? Is it due to his performances in the warm up game's? Surely not, as he didnt do too badly.
So if theres another deep rooted reason not to pick him, why the hell, have they taken him on tour, and more importantly jeopardised Yorkshires title defence. I hate the selectors and others in charge
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England will pick Wood or Tredwell. They don't like picking Tykes.
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Looks like another turning wicket with no pace.
Bishoo a doubt
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Barbados normally doesn't turn much and it's the quickest track on the tour this time round.
not sure what to make of the Rashid situation......doesn't look like he is going to play today, if stokes is unfit wood or plunkett look favourite to step in....
does beg the question with tredwell root ali and Rashid and us only playing one 'proper' spnner Rashid was never going to play from the outset....
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nope, the selectors just wanted to screw Yorkshire over.
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From what I've read on the rumour mill, both Cook and Moores don't like Rashid, so are plain unlikely to select him.
He was a selectors pick, not a captain/coach pick - which makes a mockery of him being there is that is true.
I also read something (it might have been here, or might have been a blog somewhere), that said Rashid rated very low on some 'readyness to play' scale (does that ring any bells, was it here on custom bats?).
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So because captain and coach dont like a player, they dont play.
Would that logic be acceptable if he had scored 1000+ runs and taken 50+ wickets last season? When does his performances start to outweigh their dislike for him? The whole thing stinks
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So because captain and coach dont like a player, they dont play.
Would that logic be acceptable if he had scored 1000+ runs and taken 50+ wickets last season? When does his performances start to outweigh their dislike for him? The whole thing stinks
I agree, if there is any truth in it, they it is appalling and undermines the whole point of county cricket and putting in a performance there
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What does this actually mean - "Rashid rated very low on some 'readyness to play' scale"
Is he unfit, is he too fat, has he asked not to play, are his fingers too small, was he rude to Moores, did he run off with Alistair's bat at practice?
What about him is not ready to play a test match as part of the test match squad?
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What does this actually mean - "Rashid rated very low on some 'readyness to play' scale"
Is he unfit, is he too fat, has he asked not to play, are his fingers too small, was he rude to Moores, did he run off with Alistair's bat at practice?
What about him is not ready to play a test match as part of the test match squad?
Precisely, possibly the most sensible thing ive ever seen you post :) and i completely agree.
if he has been deemed not ready to play, then why has he been picked? I think as fans we could do with some more info and transparency. What does he need to do to be 'ready'
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Precisely, possibly the most sensible thing ive ever seen you post :) and i completely agree.
How dare you! - see, this is why I prefer Beaver! :D
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Hahaha i knew it wouldnt last :D
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Surely we can't play three offspinners, please oh please pick the leggie!!!
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Surely everyone picked for a tour should be "ready to play"? If they're not, why are they even there? Because they give god throwdowns? They play good warm up football/rugby? They make good tea? They carry the drinks just right?
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The whole thing stinks
It does, that's the ECB and team ECB for you!! While the media and even those still loyal to the ECB (so those supporting still and not actively questioning them) still hold sway nothing will change
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Maybe he lacking in confidence.
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Maybe he lacking in confidence.
Then why pick him? And why keep him out there?? No point keeping someone out there if they aren't going to play
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England unchanged, might as well send the rest home early
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Then why pick him? And why keep him out there?? No point keeping someone out there if they aren't going to play
He is part of the squad. That usually means you stay til the end, or have I got that wrong?
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He is part of the squad. That usually means you stay til the end, or have I got that wrong?
No point putting people in a squad if they aren't likely to play (picking three spinners means they knew one wasn't ever going to play barring an emergency)
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A bit disappointed by the team selection, we've seen that Trott can't bat at 2 so why keep him there? If they knew this was going to be the team then why send all those other guys?? Rashid, Plunkett, Wood, Bairstow, Lyth etc etc should have been sent home 3 weeks ago, if anyone of the team had gotten injured then just fly them over the next day its not as if they need to be on a boat for a week or so to get there.
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I really don't rate stokes as mentioned earlier. But if the England management like him which for some reason they do, why risk him in this game when there are so many more important games to come.
We will get injuries over the summer and this would have been a great chance to see what Mark Wood is like on the big stage but without massive pressure.
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And so starts even more Trott bashing
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Oh dear. Trott bounced out
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Think that's the end of Trotts test career unfortunately
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That should be the end of Trott at test and international level, bounced out on a dead windies pitch, poor lyth must be fuming
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There point proven, he's got one more chance and next innings needs to be a massive hundred anything else he will loose his place.
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That should be the end of Trott at test and international level, bounced out on a dead windies pitch, poor lyth must be fuming
Not least because Lyth may go back to Eng, not get any runs and watch Hales take his possible place - thus not ever getting a chance.
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he's not a natural opener, yes it's only one place but I'm convinced it's a mental approach, openers are a rare breed, i'm one of them, I actually like the hard ball coming on and it tests my technique,which gives out sometimes and holds up other times
Trott should of waited until a spot opens up in his position,....no spot available...then wait.
I think Lyth has been desparated unlucky not to play on this tour.
It does smack a bit of a closed shop, I hate to say it but that's how it looks.I wish Trotty well, god knows he baiuled us out many times in the past, but we must select on merit in future
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I think where the problem lies is in England's reluctance to pick players on form and merit is due to the central contracts.
Below is the list of CC players, the problem being is that there are two players on Central Contracts who aren't even close to being selected for England SF and CW. Added to this we have 5 players on Incremental Contracts, barring Tredwell, none of whom are on this tour.
I think the selectors almost tie their hands with who they are able to put into the team due to these contracts. They have given at least 5 players contracts who probably wont play a test game this year.
Yet they almost need to justify their selections so are reluctant to put anyone else in.
I wonder if the fee is different for players they select to go on tour, if they do not hold a contract, is based on whether they play or not?
The ECB has awarded central contracts for 2014-15 to the following:
Moeen Ali (Worcestershire)
James Anderson (Lancashire)
Gary Ballance (Yorkshire)
Ian Bell (Warwickshire)
Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire)
Jos Buttler (Lancashire)
Alastair Cook (Essex)
Steven Finn (Middlesex)
Chris Jordan (Sussex)
Joe Root (Yorkshire)
Ben Stokes (Durham)
Chris Woakes (Warwickshire)
The ECB has awarded incremental contracts for 2014-15 to the following:
Ravi Bopara (Essex)
Alex Hales (Nottinghamshire)
Eoin Morgan (Middlesex)
Liam Plunkett (Yorkshire)
James Tredwell (Kent)
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Why is Plunkett in bold, he's over there isn't he?
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Correct, I missed him in the squad list.
If I am not mistaken though, wasn't he picked for his ability to take wickets and score 100's, not his ability to carry out the Robinson's
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I reckon 90+% of people I have spoken to or read comments from would have picked Lyth above Trott on this tour so why the F*#K can't the so called experts see it? Are we all missing something?!
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Yes, I am a Yorkshireman and a Whitby lad at that but it really does boil my P#*S!!
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The other problem with central contracts is they aren't split between Test and ODI. No point giving somebody a central contract who doesn't figure in test cricket on a regular basis, effectively it's money down the drain as ECB are paying the county for the luxury to not use him. Somebody like Woakes should get a ODI Central Contract, not one that covers tests (at the moment).
It would result in more contracts being given but worth less per player. Might also result in more choice and better use of a player, in terms of value for money.
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Not least because Lyth may go back to Eng, not get any runs and watch Hales take his possible place - thus not ever getting a chance.
Very good point Buzz, what a waste of a month for him. As lovely as being in the Caribbean must be I'm sure he would rated have been in England playing some cricket than netting and carrying drinks
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Good old England. Think Smith was very accurate when he predicted Aus would have no trouble turning this lot over.
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balance and bell gone
the wheels are coming off
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How cook wasn't given out is a shocking decision! You see the finger under the ball clearly.
More rubbish 3'rd umpiring
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Alastair Cook using up all his luck against ICC ranked #8 side West Indies...he might've been wiser saving it for the Kiwis and the Aussies.
Ian Bell going missing again...shock.
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trott is finished? why england are picking him as an opener, is beyond me when they have other candidates warranting a spot
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Root out caught behind off the bowling off Permaul for 33.
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As I said earlier this isn't the usual Barbados pitch and is going to turn. England probably going to miss a front line spinner
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The other problem with central contracts is they aren't split between Test and ODI. No point giving somebody a central contract who doesn't figure in test cricket on a regular basis, effectively it's money down the drain as ECB are paying the county for the luxury to not use him. Somebody like Woakes should get a ODI Central Contract, not one that covers tests (at the moment).
It would result in more contracts being given but worth less per player. Might also result in more choice and better use of a player, in terms of value for money.
Isn't that what incremental contracts are?
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i dont see the reason to try and force trott in to the team as an opener. i dont see him playing against australia. why not give adma lyth a few tests to open before the ashes
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Well, they wouldn't want another Yorkshire lad showing the establishment up. So they select the skippers mate.
Worst thing is, Buzz may well be right - Lyth may well find that he never plays for England because he missed those three county games to reinforce the point that he was the next best behind....no, not going there.
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Cook's just sold Mo down the river.
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Ridiculous getting 2 run outs in the first innings of a test match.
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Ridiculous getting 2 run outs in the first innings of a test match.
It would be, but there's only been one so far, unless you're friends with a few Indian bookmakers?
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The ecb app showed cook as being run out
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I wonder if there people watching and hopeing Cook doesnt score a hundred some negative threads beginning to look daft..
Good players will always be good form is form...
Go on tell me it is poor bowling and so on....
Hope he gets a "Goochie"......
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I wonder if there people watching and hopeing Cook doesnt score a hundred some negative threads beginning to look daft..
Good players will always be good form is form...
Go on tell me it is poor bowling and so on....
Hope he gets a "Goochie"......
Let's see after NZ and aus Dave, you know as well as anyone this WI side is poor
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Fair play Dave, but it's supposedly a flat pitch, and we're dribbling along at 2.5 an over. In fact 1.4 an over for the last 10.
I, like you, want England to do well, but this seems pretty uninspiring at the moment. I hope this is the calm before our batting storm, I really do!!!
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I wonder if there people watching and hopeing Cook doesnt score a hundred some negative threads beginning to look daft..
Good players will always be good form is form...
Go on tell me it is poor bowling and so on....
Hope he gets a "Goochie"......
The pro ecb/cook brigade will finally fall apart after the ashes. Cooks got away with a few bits today, inside edges, third umpire call, top edges. Hardly inspiring stuff, still at least he's putting a poor WI away as any test batsmen should
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The pro ecb/cook brigade will finally fall apart after the ashes. Cooks got away with a few bits today, inside edges, third umpire call, top edges. Hardly inspiring stuff, still at least he's putting a poor WI away as any test batsmen should
Not Pro anything pal hows KP getting on pal :D
Hell lucky 100 if he gets there i will take it all day long All day long i say!!!!
Not arsed who were playing 100 is a 100 you should know that Aidy
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Not Pro anything pal hows KP getting on pal :D
Not seen his last game, unfortunately for you I don't support kp, merely that he was mistreated and shouldn't have been fired. I'm just not willing to follow blindly become the ecb say so
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Not seen his last game, unfortunately for you I don't support kp, merely that he was mistreated and shouldn't have been fired.
Aye Ok pal :D
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New Zealand and Australia will be cracking open the beers seeing the mediocre Alastair Cook scoring the 100 that will ensure he plays the 7 home Test matches.
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you sure watch a lot of England cricket matches for someone who has such distain for anyone in an England shirt.
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you sure watch a lot of England cricket matches for someone who has such distain for anyone in an England shirt.
It's the only televised Test cricket available ATM...
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100 for cook. Hope he thanks the 3'rd ump ;)
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Celebrating a 100 against ICC ranked #8 side... Embarrassing
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Good old Ben stokes loves to kick off!was f'ing and blinding having just been dismissed!hope he didn't punch a locker.
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you can only beat the opposition in front of u Gerry, id turn over channels if it irritates u that much or find something better to do.
we all go through dips in form but u just have to keep playing and cash in when ur chance comes. You can always play urself back into form but seldom play yourself out of it!
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Celebrating a 100 against ICC ranked #8 side... Embarrassing
Should we discount AB's recent heroics against the West Indies as well then?
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you can only beat the opposition in front of u Gerry, id turn over channels if it irritates u that much or find something better to do.
we all go through dips in form but u just have to keep playing and cash in when ur chance comes. You can always play urself back into form but seldom play yourself out of it!
Cook is limited. Very low skill and talent level. He's been found out by the better bowlers. Windies are very poor and its masked Cook's cashed in on that.
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Should we discount AB's recent heroics against the West Indies as well then?
Feel free. ABs best knock was his 170 at Headingley a few years back.
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i very much doubt 26 test hundreds havent all come against poor oppo ???
Bit like saying when a striker bangs in a hat-trick against bottom of the league that those goals shoudlnt count towards his tally at the end of the season. Take to the pitch, play to the best of ur ability against the opposition and do what you can.
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Feel free. ABs best knock was his 170 at Headingley a few years back.
yeh but that doesnt count as all Englands bowlers are rubbish arent they?
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i very much doubt 26 test hundreds havent all come against poor oppo ???
Why's his average considerably lower against AUS, SA and NZ?
But he bullies the also rans like WI and IND
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Ton when the team needed it.say what you like the bloke has 26 hundreds.
Theres plenty on telly for those that cant stand the England team
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Achh! Boring or not - a test hundred is a big achievement for Cookie.
I don't care about the opposition - well played Cookie - I hope that's the start of a new chapter!
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yeh but that doesnt count as all Englands bowlers are rubbish arent they?
Well when you put it like that...
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Celebrating a 100 against ICC ranked #8 side... Embarrassing
So if you were top of the league mid season, playing against 8th place you wouldn't celebrate a hundred? Get over yourself Gerry. You can make some insightful comments at times but the majority of the time your comments contain such little value and you post things to create a reaction.
I really do feel for you as you use this forum as a platform to be so bitter about things rather than try and share success and enjoy the game of cricket. While people on here with be nationalistic and support their country or their favourite players, they are also cricket lovers and will always celebrate a performance regardless of nationality. You on the other hand only celebrate certain performances. You have a very blinkered view and one day you will open your eyes and think what on earth was I doing.
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Cook's 26 100s is more in part to modern day England playing more Tests than years gone by. Had England played 12/15 Test per year 20/30 years ago, Boycott would've got 50 100s
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Alastair Cook still the biggest joke going around.
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reminds me of that old spitting image song ..." ive never met......"
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7 down after winning the toss. What a poor shot to get out
West Indies day
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Shocker from cook so close to the end!
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Alastair Cook still the biggest joke going around.
The Irony
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Aw gawd!!
Mind you - we've still got to bowl on this.
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stats can always be manipulated into any way u want them.
the old 100 and out, what is it about reaching the milstone that makes players switch off. Is the next target 150 or 200?
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what a bad team performance after choosing to bat first
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Feel for Cook (shocking I know), he knows he should have been there in he morning. Felt for mo too, he looked like he was cruising for a 100. WI day in the end unfortunately for team ECB. England could pay for not having a spinner though and no batsmen left so biif is on and bowling by lunch
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Imagine if one of us went through a run like he did.. the number of form topics saying "feel like quiting" haha
As a cricketer its nice to see Cook getting some runs..
Poor fellow!
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reminds me of that old spitting image song ..." ive never met......"
Ha I'm old enough to remember that. Not doing his compatriots any favours is he!
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Jimmy 5fer
His 2nd against the West Indies and his 17th in tests.
Not bad considering he's a clubbie (with a world class sub 30 bowling average...)
Windies 178-9, trailing England by 79.
Gary Ballance was injured earlier in the day (and hasn't been on the field since) so I'm not sure who will bat at 3.
Lyth has finally made a contribution to the test side though, a catch as sub fielder.
On a different not I've really enjoyed Tino Best's commentary on TMS
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Clubman has now equaled Steyn on 396 Test wickets.
Clubbie has a ordinary average of 29.20, whereas Steyn averages 22.54.
Clubbie has taken 102 Tests, Steyn a mere 78.
Levels.
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Excellent catch by Moeen off Jimmy's blowing ends it, 6-42 for him.
Blackwood the last man out for 85, the only West Indies player to apply them self with the bat (until he threw it way with a rash shot).
England 257 all out
West Indies 189 all out trail by 68 runs
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The better stat Gerry is that it has taken Jimmy 1000 more overs to get the Wickets.
1000 more overs
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The better stat Gerry is that it has taken Jimmy 1000 more overs to get the Wickets.
1000 more overs
If they'd played the same amount of cricket Steyn would be on 500+ wickets.
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Steyn may also be totally broken.
Anderson's longevity is extraordinary.
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Is Anderson the best opening bowler and out fielder in the history of the game ?.
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Don't see trott playing for England again. Another failure
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Trott out LBW for 9. Gutted he didn't get a big score, but he shouldn't have been selected as an opener :(
Was that his last test innings?
He ends the series with 72 runs at an average of 12 in the series (with a top score of 59) and a career average of 44
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Cook gone too, England 13-2
Windies fighting back
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Cook gone too! Some ball that from Gabriel
Some pace here by Gabriel 92mph!
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It's all team tactics to get root in quicker.......
Hales and lyth, dream opening partnership.
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i think that is the end of trott. would imagine lyth will open against new zealand. if they dont just hales to open in odi cant see him even being near the test squad which is such a shame
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As much as I like hales,surely they can't select another player who doesn't open in county cricket.
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As much as I like hales,surely they can't select another player who doesn't open in county cricket.
True, but Atleast he opens in some form.
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Root time?
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Beauty from Taylor to get rid of bell.
Shocking review! Broad-esk review. Can't get more plumb than that
Couple more before the close will make this game interesting
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That proves to me that batsmen have no idea where there legs are, reviewing one hitting middle half way up.
Reminds me of the clubbies that moan that every lbw they recieve was never out, shocking decision etc.
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Root gone. 28-4
West Indies in charge right now
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this could be a great day tomorrow. if it lasts that long
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Root gone too. England in a bit of trouble. Need someone to counter attack and get the runs flowing.
Going nowhere like this.
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Less than 100 all out england!
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England get rolled and lose,drawn series- Moores gets the sack. What do we reckon?!!
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Well - as unsavoury as that sounds - it might move things along a bit.
I still feel bags of potential with these young players, but I think there's a huge amount of issues with the coaching and management.
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Oops, Ali gone. Could be 50 all out.
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Ali gone to a grubber!
Seen this before from England.
No night watchman
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england seem to be playing some silly shots and getting themselves out here
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I agree, the selectors are a complete joke- they've now tried Root,Compton,Carberry,Robson, and Trott!
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Aye Ok pal :D
How did these top England players bat today ?
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Lyth most likely going to play against NZ, end of trotts test career i guess. Hales should get a crack tho
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How did these top England players bat today ?
Can you honestly say KP would have done any better? All speculation.
KP has had his chance, he blew it multiple times. If he shown he can muster some runs in the CC and there is a batsman failing repeatedly in the middle order (I guess Bell is the closest to that currently), then he might get one last shot.
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Bell scored a hundred 2 years ago so he's hardly consistently failing, even if he hadn't scored one for 18 months he'd be selected ahead of KP by the current bunch of muppets in charge so it's irrelevant anyway really...
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I'm not saying he is close to being dropped, but he has scored 12 runs in the last 4 innings whereas Root and Ballance have done well.
What I was suggesting is that it will take a lot for KP to force his way back in to the team.
Whilst there is some questions around some selections, I wonder who gets the final call. To say they are all muppets may be harsh (although they might all be) as we do not know the true rationale of how teams and squad get picked.
Personally, I think they are trying to play safe and be as solid as possible. I would prefer a bit more adventurousness.
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I was just using him as an example because he'd been mentioned.
You could put any name there really "KP won't get selected ahead of XXXX - because Moores prefers XXXX as a person and they're easier to man manage"
As for them all being a bunch of muppet, the evidence:
Peter Moores - he was crap the first time, so he gets a second go.
KPs sacking, did he really deserve it?
Peter Moores - "we need to have a look at the stats"
The openers position - why has it been such an issue recently, I can't recall it being such a headache before?
Alex Hales - everyone except the ECB can see he should be playing at least ODIs, if not tests as well.
James Tredwell - from 2nd XI to test match, to water boy (after a decent game). The mind boggles
Moeen Ali - he's a batsman who bowls, why try and make him a frontline spinner?
Adil Rashid - why take a quality leggy with no intentions to play him?
Stokes & Jordan - pick one and sort the balance of the side please. We don't need 2 5th bowlers who can bat a bit!
Liam Plunkett - whys eh month playing again?
Jonathan Trott - just because he's Cook's mate you can't make him an opener!
Adam Lyth - why isn't he opening in this series?
This test - why isn't there a frontline spinner playing on a Bunsen?
The analysts - what do they analyse exactly? Whatever it is it doesn't seem to be working...
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Who's gonna stick up for mental midget Ian Bell today then? I've said all along he's got no bottle, yet you guys always defend him.
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He certainly hasn't turned up in this test of that you are spot on! You also cannot defend the indefensible with that review. Desperation to avoid a pair that looked like!
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You could put any name there really "KP won't get selected ahead of XXXX - because Moores prefers XXXX as a person and they're easier to man manage"
As for them all being a bunch of muppet, the evidence:
Peter Moores - he was crap the first time, so he gets a second go. - some people get better with experience. As I recall, there wasn't a long list of applicants that were much better. As long as you learn from mistakes you never truly fail.
KPs sacking, did he really deserve it? - Yes. He is an idiot and if this was an every day company he'd have been sacked long ago.
Peter Moores - "we need to have a look at the stats" - Stats are an important part of the game, but not the be all and end all. This isn't a problem, this is a cop out and saying "I don't know what went wrong".
The openers position - why has it been such an issue recently, I can't recall it being such a headache before? - Blessed with 4 great openers over the last few years. They want a quick fix when any of the recent openers will have done ok if given enough time.
Alex Hales - everyone except the ECB can see he should be playing at least ODIs, if not tests as well. - Tests? Really? Instead of who?
James Tredwell - from 2nd XI to test match, to water boy (after a decent game). The mind boggles - He was never more than a filler-inner. They always wanted Ali to play as the front line spinner. When it came to attacking and getting wickets, Tredwell was nowhere. I bet ever I could have probably done ok against him.
Moeen Ali - he's a batsman who bowls, why try and make him a frontline spinner? Trying to get too many bit part players, want the all rounders in the game.
Adil Rashid - why take a quality leggy with no intentions to play him? I think the quote was "he's bowling rubbish and too many 4 balls, he's out here getting experience"
Stokes & Jordan - pick one and sort the balance of the side please. We don't need 2 5th bowlers who can bat a bit! I presume the selectors think this is the best 11 for the pitch.
Liam Plunkett - whys eh month playing again? I guess the selectors think Stokes and Jordan are better bowlers.
Jonathan Trott - just because he's Cook's mate you can't make him an opener! - Solid performer, now what you get with him. Not the worst idea but the experiment should have only done two tests.
Adam Lyth - why isn't he opening in this series? Maybe they are waiting to pick Hales as 'everyone' thinks he should play tests?
This test - why isn't there a frontline spinner playing on a Bunsen? Selectors pick the best 11. How many wickets have fallen to spinners so far?
The analysts - what do they analyse exactly? Whatever it is it doesn't seem to be working... - they analyse a lot, I have a lot of time for these. Surely it's the fault of the coaches who cannot take their information and use it effectively.
Anyway, back to this test. What a shambles. Hopefully Ballance and the all rounders will be able to put a few on and get a score to defend.
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Lucky enough to be out here watching this test- can't wait for today's play.
Yesterday was quite something. I still fancy us to get another 75-100 runs, which would make for an interesting WI target.
Either way, I reckon I'm gonna be on the beach for day five(and most of day four)
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Had a quality spinner played for either side, they would have ripped through the opposition. But then again hardly any quality spinners around
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Gary Ballance falls to Veerasammy Permaul. 6/63.
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Ben Stokes gone for 32, another wicket to Permaul. 7/96, lead 164
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Jordon gone to.
Done nothing with ball and nothing with bat this game.
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Jordan gone, broad shouldn't last too long either.
How the management haven't told broad to bat at 11 yet is pretty surprising
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Chris Jordan LBW for 2 to Jason Holder.
Stuart Broad bowled for a golden duck by Holder.
9/98
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Broad yorked first ball. Stood an inch from his stumps. With big fear in his eyes!
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As expected broad didn't last long.
thought he might review it ;)
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Surely Moores has to go if they lose this!
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Broad yorked first ball. Stood an inch from his stumps. With big fear in his eyes!
How do you know he had fear in his eyes???
He had them shut from the moment the bowler let go of the ball :-)
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As expected broad didn't last long.
thought he might review it ;)
Did the umpire raise his finger? Thought he might've stood his ground
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How the umpire didn't give that one, absolutely plumb. How is Bowden still a umpire. He's clueless.
192 to win, should be interesting chase
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Come on England. We have enough runs. Just got to not panic and bowl well.
No long hops. Please.
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How the umpire didn't give that one, absolutely plumb. How is Bowden still a umpire. He's clueless.
192 to win, should be interesting chase
Is there an umpire you do like?
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Is there an umpire you do like?
Bowden, steve davis and erasmis are the worst 3 going around. Rest are pretty good
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Joe Root dropped a dolly offered up by Shai Hope off Broad's bowling...
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Now a review has been wasted too, wheels coming off for England.
Windies to win at a canter, and the list test/drawn series will be the catalyst for absolutely no changes in the England setup!
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England have blown both reviews inside 11 overs. Madness.
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Anyone else fancy the Windies to win by 10 wickets here?
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Anyone else fancy the Windies to win by 10 wickets here?
No
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England have blown both reviews inside 11 overs. Madness.
Especially the 1st one, looked like thigh pad for all money, not sure why Trott thought he should get involved. For a side with still a lot of test experience they play some really thoughtless cricket.
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Oh DRS ???
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Now a review has been wasted too, wheels coming off for England.
Windies to win at a canter, and the list test/drawn series will be the catalyst for absolutely no changes in the England setup!
I think if England lose, there is more chance of some change at the top now that Colin Graves has a say.
It has already changed a fair bit ... KP's carrot, Downton gone, etc.
Slow and steady changes rather than a knee jerk reaction all at once.
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Oh - hello!
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Good to see Trott has continued with his positive contribution by making sure a review was used wrongly
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Windies cruising away with this
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The great Shivnarine Chanderpaul fails again, the end is in sight of the legendary left hander, Clubman with the wicket. 4/80
Clubbie with more wickets than Steyn...
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England have a new clubbie, his name is Jos Buttler. He can't keep for toffee. Blackwood charged down the pitch to Root and missed his attempted big shot. Yet Buttler fluffed the simple stumping.
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Nothing on TV again Gerry?
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COME ON ENGLAND !
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Hmmmm! England desperate for a couple of quick wickets here I think.
Interesting that on a helpful wicket, we have no frontline spinner, and that Root is out-bowling an undercooked Ali!
West Indies in front here.
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Runs flowing!
About time bravo got some runs. Played pretty well
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can only see a windies win from here
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Looks very much like a draw series and thats about where we are if we are honest.
Maybe a good thing in the long run,lyth now needs a fair run in the side in place of trott.as far as spinners go thou im lost
Ali has been poor i homestly cant help thinking if rashid if not going to play tredwell would of done a better job
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Really poor from England. Credit to the WIndies though.
Tredwell would have done a job. Not a big spinner of the ball but more than enough assistance in the pitch and he always has good control.
Some of the players need to have a real long look at themselves. We can blame the coaching staff but when they get out on the field they think for themselves. England had enough to win this series comfortably but too many passengers and we need to get rid of players with scars otherwise the remainder of the summer will be embarrassing.
I vote we ignore trying to find all rounders. Lets just pick specialists to do their job and if they aren't good enough we hold our hands up. Repeated patterns of poor performance is getting very boring now!
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Or am I not given the players enough credit?
Perhaps they want Moores out?
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.
I vote we ignore trying to find all rounders. Lets just pick specialists to do their job
All rounders are important and have their place. A team is always stronger with a good all rounder.
Emphasis on the word 'good'.
I think they have too many bit-part all rounders in Ali, Stokes and Jordan.
Get a proper spinner in. Rashid turns it and can bat, he's as good as Jordan if not better.
Then either Stokes or Jordan. What Jordan lacks in batting he certainly gains in fielding. Awesome slip catches. Good hands.
Then the space can be something different, like a quick Finn, Plunkett or the like. Someone who can hit 90.
England have had one real bad innings in this series and it could cost them big.
It may be a good thing in the long run as if Moores were to go, a 1-1 in the Windies compared to 2-0 would be a big point in it.
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All rounders are important and have their place. A team is always stronger with a good all rounder.
Emphasis on the word 'good'.
Couldn't agree more.
We don't have that 'good' all rounder so by all means give someone a chance but dont just gamble on 3 players in the same team hoping one of them steps up to the plate
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West Indies in a rush here. Lara-esk shot there from bravo.
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Agree with most of what's been said,
Can't believe Rashid isn't playing on this type of pitch would be ideal for him, plus as we know he can bat as well,
Broad is a shadow of the player he was aphid batting is genuinely woeful for a player of his ability.
As for the opener with Cook it has to be time to try Lyth surely he deserves his chance
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This is just showing this bunch of players and management up in their real light. Over rated and not up to it. Can't even beat a really really poor WI side.
Please someone defend this bunch of players because tbh, only one or two are coming out with any credit. He game needs this ECB and anyone who blindly follows them out... And quickly
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You have to pick your best XI, with ali,root and stokes floating about it should be possible to pick your best 4 bowlers with one of them as the 5th. The best XI we can pick is not a million miles away from what we have -
Cook
Lyth
Hales
Ballance
Root
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
Panesar
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Couldn't agree more.
We don't have that 'good' all rounder so by all means give someone a chance but dont just gamble on 3 players in the same team hoping one of them steps up to the plate
I believe they are trying all as a trial for the Ashes. Whoever performs here best will take that spot. I have a feeling (which may be totally wrong) that they'll only play Stokes or Jordan and bring someone else in.
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You have to pick your best XI, with ali,root and stokes floating about it should be possible to pick your best 4 bowlers with one of them as the 5th. The best XI we can pick is not a million miles away from what we have -
Cook
Lyth
Hales
Ballance
Root
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
Panesar
Why cook?? Why buttler? Why broad ?? Why Woakes ??
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Doing this in style! What a knock by bravo, disappointing he didn't see it through
Embarrassing that even with Otis Gibson added to the back room staff to provide the inside information, England still couldn't beat west indies.
They had the best of conditions in this match with the pitch at it's best on day 1 and still lost.
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Not sure what's worse. Hat we lost or that we lost in 3 days.
What a joke English cricket is.
Have your gloat Gerry and enjoy it. We deserve it.
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SO the fat lady is singing and with a big summer coming the coaching staff must be thinking
What can we really take from this
The players aren't quite good enough.
We've given some players the opportunity to carry drinks who potentially deserved at least a shot in the last match
An old stalwart cant open the batting and may end his career in a sad way
None of our 'potential' all rounders are quite good enough even in favourable conditions.
Is the P45 coming shortly
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Graves did say if England don't win there will be an enquiry.
He also called west indies a mediocre team. Not bad for a mediocre team without some of their best players.
Time for moores and the selectors to go. Got the team wrong without playing a front line spinner.
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Why cook?? Why buttler? Why broad ?? Why Woakes ??
Right - perhaps I should have picked the Xi that I would pick, rather than what the selectors would pick -
Manager - Strauss
Coach - Moody
Batting Coach - Collingwood
Bowling Coach - Donald (if he would do it)
Hales
Lyth
Ballance
Root
Taylor*
Stokes
Buttler+
Willey
Plunkett
Anderson
Panesar
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Don't worry lads, Perfick ECB man and Cooky's Wookys buddy Andrew Strauss will tear this team up and sort everything. ???
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Graves did say if England don't win there will be an enquiry.
He also called west indies a mediocre team. Not bad for a mediocre team without some of their best players.
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They are 8 in the world. Getting better. Solid team but England should have won this series.
Graves won't u-turn. There'll be a big blow out from this. Someone will go or something will change.
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Moores MUST be fired
The back room staff (analysts etc) must be fired
Cook must step down as captain
Cook must be sent packing to LVCC and score runs
Trott pensioned off
Broad send packing (cancelling Central contract) to LVCC to prove himself
Ali send packing
Buttler told to go play LVCC and learn to play proper cricket
Jordan taken off central contract (if he has one), sent packing to LVCC
Stokes told to buck up and improve fast
Tredwell fired
Bell told to buck up or he's gone by the end of the ashes
Completely incompetent. ECB are a shambles and anyone supporting them should be ashamed they've been part of it. WI are low in the rankings for a reason, missing their best players as well. No amount of 'we underestimated them' cuts it.. England should have won and won very very very well.. top 6 should have scored 50's for fun, bowlers should have ripped it apart. no excuses
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Right - perhaps I should have picked the Xi that I would pick, rather than what the selectors would pick -
Manager - Strauss
Coach - Moody
Batting Coach - Collingwood
Bowling Coach - Donald (if he would do it)
Hales
Lyth
Ballance
Root
Taylor*
Stokes
Buttler+
Willey
Plunkett
Anderson
Panesar
I could get behind that team Brucie. Just not with Broad, Cook in it anymore.
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They are 8 in the world. Getting better. Solid team but England should have won this series.
Graves won't u-turn. There'll be a big blow out from this. Someone will go or something will change.
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trouble is.. moores will take the fall and then every will forget that the players woefully underperformed (probably only anderson, root and ballance apart - not seen root/ballances stats though but they feel like they've at least performed)
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trouble is.. moores will take the fall and then every will forget that the players woefully underperformed (probably only anderson, root and ballance apart - not seen root/ballances stats though but they feel like they've at least performed)
http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Series/SeriesAnalysis.asp?SeriesCode=0682&Scope=02
Root, Ballance and Cook all above 50. Then Buttler at 37.5. Everyone else is poor.
Anderson way out under 17 with the ball. Oddly, Tredwell, Root and Ali all rather similar stats. Much of a muchness.
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[url]http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Series/SeriesAnalysis.asp?SeriesCode=0682&Scope=02[/url] ([url]http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Series/SeriesAnalysis.asp?SeriesCode=0682&Scope=02[/url])
Root, Ballance and Cook all above 50. Then Buttler at 37.5. Everyone else is poor.
Anderson way out under 17 with the ball. Oddly, Tredwell, Root and Ali all rather similar stats. Much of a muchness.
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Cook did avg 50 BUT.. didn't play well and is part of the toxic fumes around Eng cricket. Ali isn't good enough, tredwell, Broad has lost it, Jordan, stokes is at least pacey!! rather than mid/low 80's
Just totally embarrassed by this group of players. If these are the 'best' 'we' can produce from our system then the system is massively flawed
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i do hope there will be some changes before the new zealand series.
its all got rather rubbish and predictable recently.
broad seems to be a different player to what he was. stokes seems like a batsmen who can bowl but needs to improve. see him as a 4th seamer in a 5 man attack. buttler should move up the order to 6/7. lyth has to come in as one of the openers. bells last summer chance if he fails bring in hales. lastly need to find a decent spinner
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i do hope there will be some changes before the new zealand series.
its all got rather rubbish and predictable recently.
broad seems to be a different player to what he was. stokes seems like a batsmen who can bowl but needs to improve. see him as a 4th seamer in a 5 man attack. buttler should move up the order to 6/7. lyth has to come in as one of the openers. bells last summer chance if he fails bring in hales. lastly need to find a decent spinner
why buttler up the order?? seriously what has he showed you in tests to warrant thinking he is a test batsmen.. his avg this series has been massively inflated by not outs! he's a white ball player currently in a test team.. only doing well when playing white ball like innings.. n
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Moores thinks England had a good series. What a joke.
Really is boring hearing the same rubbish coming from cook and moores.
First time I've heard someone say it's harder for a spinner sometimes if the conditions are in your favour
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why buttler up the order?? seriously what has he showed you in tests to warrant thinking he is a test batsmen.. his avg this series has been massively inflated by not outs! he's a white ball player currently in a test team.. only doing well when playing white ball like innings.. n
Whilst he is still learning the 'red ball' game, he has scored 45 or more in 4 of his 7 test innings.
You can only get better by facing better opposition and he will not get that as much in the CC.
Buttler is potentially (and possibly a little tongue in cheek) a Gilchrist style cricketer.
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Moores thinks England had a good series. What a joke.
Really is boring hearing the same rubbish coming from cook and moores.
First time I've heard someone say it's harder for a spinner sometimes if the conditions are in your favour
Really? Did he actually say that?
Bloody hell! As an England follower I say the following:
Moores can obviously not motivate / inspire / select an England side
Broad / Bell / Ali / Trott have no right to an automatic selection in the team that they currently have
Graves better start the shake-up pretty damn quickly
Get some young, hungry bodies into this XI
Start thinking outside the box, and use some of the instinctive, brilliant talent this country has.
We are not useless, we have some very talented cricketers - they simply need to be managed and motivated right!!!!!!!!!!
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Buttler at eight is wasted.
These are good players, who have yet to develop know how at Test level. Chucking them all out and starting again is frankly ridiculous. What would happen? Immediate scores of 600 and wins in 2 1/2 days. How many England players in this side have played more than 20 games? It makes perfect sense to try and grow a team from the, ahem, ashes of defeat. The best examples I can think of are Nasser's England. They lost a bit, but stuck with some new guys who weren't great straight away, they played negative, negative cricket, and from that came the spine of the 2003-2005 team, which was fantastic.
Instant change, for instant gratification won't happen. Evolve, tweak and gain experience. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
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Would've won that game with KP... Heard he bowls some mystery off spin too.. :D
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I think moores has done this on purpose.
Drop stokes from wc squad.
sack cook at last minute to destabilise side.
Put out of form morgan in charge to frazzled his brain.
Ignore to upcoming youths selectors sent and play a mixed side with far to many allrounder instead.
Bat trott out of position despite his fragile Ness.
Refuse to drop broad even those he's shot.
Watch us tumble down the rankings thinking "should have backed me 1st time, now look at us, we are crap and you refuse to sack me as you'll think it's admitting your wrong. Trololol. Where's my cheque"
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Buttler at eight is wasted.
These are good players, who have yet to develop know how at Test level. Chucking them all out and starting again is frankly ridiculous. What would happen? Immediate scores of 600 and wins in 2 1/2 days. How many England players in this side have played more than 20 games? It makes perfect sense to try and grow a team from the, ahem, ashes of defeat. The best examples I can think of are Nasser's England. They lost a bit, but stuck with some new guys who weren't great straight away, they played negative, negative cricket, and from that came the spine of the 2003-2005 team, which was fantastic.
Instant change, for instant gratification won't happen. Evolve, tweak and gain experience. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
I think you'll find that the ones who I threw out were Cook, Trott, Bell, Ali, Broad, Jordan.
No instant change there - you tell me which of them deserve to keep their places unreservedly?
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I think you'll find that the ones who I threw out were Cook, Trott, Bell, Ali, Broad, Jordan.
No instant change there - you tell me which of them deserve to keep their places unreservedly?
I swear bell got a 150 in the first game?
Jordan's not great atm he should go. Ali should only play as a batsman who can bowl, not the other way round.
Drop broad and bring in who? Horses for courses... Wait till England get back home, they always do well there
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I could get behind that team Brucie. Just not with Broad, Cook in it anymore.
I'm sorry, but a month ago you didn't know David Willey was a bowler. You called him an 'average county pro'. Now you've got him in your England team! ???
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I'm sorry, but a month ago you didn't know David Willey was a bowler. You called him an 'average county pro'. Now you got him in your England team! ???
oh yeah, sorry. forgot you know everything. zzzz Didn't say he was who I'd pick, just that I could at least support that team compared to the one team ECB put out now.
idiot
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I swear bell got a 150 in the first game?
Jordan's not great atm he should go. Ali should only play as a batsman who can bowl, not the other way round.
Drop broad and bring in who? Horses for courses... Wait till England get back home, they always do well there
Broad's bowling has actually looked the best it has for some time...
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Sorry, I hadn't read your post. Mine was just a general post and not aimed at anyone here in particular. I also didn't say anyone should keep their place unreservedly, in fact, evoke and tweak. Six changes from a playing XI is a bit extreme though, isn't it?
I would say invest a bit more time in most of them. Trott is obviously going to make way, but I would argue Jordan, Ali, Broad need a little more time, for varying reasons. I'm not sure why Ali was called up after being injured, so I'd say it's fair to think he might not have been 100%. More overs in international cricket can only help when he's not a frontline spinner for his club. Still something there.
Jordan is no better or worse than the others in the squad. Like Hoggard, he needs time to acclimatise, then assume the mantle when Anderson retires. Could go either way.
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oh yeah, sorry. forgot you know everything. zzzz Didn't say he was who I'd pick, just that I could at least support that team compared to the one team ECB put out now.
idiot
Clearly, evidence suggests you are the idiot.
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Well played West Indies! Taught that mediocre England side a lesson about humility. Young Blackwood looks a proper prospect and Jerome Taylor is a class act when fully fit.
England what can I say? Pick a proper spinner for crying out loud. Ali is a joke, he lucked out against the hapless Indians but was dreadful against Sri Lanka and the Windies. Get a proper third seamer in, no side can function with so many bits abc pieces players(Ali, Stokes and Jordan).
Time for Trott and Bell to be pensioned off. Adam Lyth and maybe a certain Durban born lad to take their places.
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Clearly, evidence suggests you are the idiot.
Evidence suggest you have no interest in putting a viewpoint over. Merely searching for something to pick at in others.
Come back when you have an opinion on something!
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Sorry, I hadn't read your post. Mine was just a general post and not aimed at anyone here in particular. I also didn't say anyone should keep their place unreservedly, in fact, evoke and tweak. Six changes from a playing XI is a bit extreme though, isn't it?
I would say invest a bit more time in most of them. Trott is obviously going to make way, but I would argue Jordan, Ali, Broad need a little more time, for varying reasons. I'm not sure why Ali was called up after being injured, so I'd say it's fair to think he might not have been 100%. More overs in international cricket can only help when he's not a frontline spinner for his club. Still something there.
Jordan is no better or worse than the others in the squad. Like Hoggard, he needs time to acclimatise, then assume the mantle when Anderson retires. Could go either way.
Ali figures vs yorkshire was 0 for 30 and 0 for 15.
Each innings senanayeke was used before and for more overs than Ali.
Worcester don't back him as a frontline spinner. But england do. Go figure.
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Evidence suggest you have no interest in putting a viewpoint over. Merely searching for something to pick at in others.
Come back when you have an opinion on something!
Something to pick at in others? Ha ha!
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Ali figures vs yorkshire was 0 for 30 and 0 for 15.
Each innings senanayeke was used before and for more overs than Ali.
Worcester don't back him as a frontline spinner. But england do. Go figure.
Well, if you pay for an overseas spinner you use him, I suppose. Ali's first class bowling record is pretty good compared the other English qualified options. Not his fault the cupboard is bare.
Ali did okay last year and played with a smile on his face. It's interesting the effects of a year playing for England seems to do to such bonhomie.
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I mostly agree the consensus of professional opinion that the current England team lacks a quality spinner, an opening batsman, and a convincing third seamer.
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Well played West Indies! Taught that mediocre England side a lesson about humility. Young Blackwood looks a proper prospect and Jerome Taylor is a glass act when fully fit.
England what can I say? Pick a proper spinner for crying out loud. Ali is a joke, he lucked out against the hapless Indians but was dreadful against Sri Lanka and the Windies. Get a proper third seamer in, no side can function with so many bits abc pieces players(Ali, Stokes and Jordan).
Time for Trott and Bell to be pensioned off. Adam Lyth and maybe a certain Durban born lad to take their places.
This...
England have too many jack of all trades master of f all players atm. Their roles need to be clearly defined to them.
I disagree about stokes he'll come good invest time in him.
That leaves Jordan.. Is he England's third best seamer? Probably not, so he shouldn't be there. It's stokes's job as a fourth seamer to get runs and wickets. Jordan should be there to pick wickets and he ain't doing that.
As for the Durban born lad, wait for him to score some runs in CC... Then again another saffa scored quite a few of them but ended up with many many ducks... Go figure
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Well, if you pay for an overseas spinner you use him, I suppose. Ali's first class bowling record is pretty good compared the other English qualified options. Not his fault the cupboard is bare.
Agree.
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Is he England's third best seamer?
Or is Chris Woakes?
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Or is Chris Woakes?
Id probably have woakes over Jordan atleast he's quicker
Talking about quicker has anyone mentioned hewhomustnotbenamed?
Finn? How's he doin
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Making noise about how it's not all about pace.... So probably still trundlin'
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Id probably have woakes over Jordan atleast he's quicker
Talking about quicker has anyone mentioned hewhomustnotbenamed?
Finn? How's he doin
Finn hasnt been doing that well in LVCC atm but from what I seen when he played at the parks vs oxford mccu he gain slightly more pace than world cup which is good, surely woakes will retain his place once he is back from injury?
my england 11 would be if cook has to be captain:
Cook
Lyth
Hales
KP (has to be)
Root
Taylor
Bairstow(i think he is better keeper than buttler..)
Rashid
Woakes
Finn
Anderson
If no cook:
Lyth
Hales
Taylor
KP
Root
Bopara (surely he has proven to be one of the better England cricket in international games?....)
Bairstow
Rashid
Woakes
Finn
Anderson
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What happened to Sam Robson? He seems to have been discarded pretty quickly. Shouldn't they stick with him over the long term?
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Buttler at eight is wasted.
These are good players, who have yet to develop know how at Test level. Chucking them all out and starting again is frankly ridiculous. What would happen? Immediate scores of 600 and wins in 2 1/2 days. How many England players in this side have played more than 20 games? It makes perfect sense to try and grow a team from the, ahem, ashes of defeat. The best examples I can think of are Nasser's England. They lost a bit, but stuck with some new guys who weren't great straight away, they played negative, negative cricket, and from that came the spine of the 2003-2005 team, which was fantastic.
Instant change, for instant gratification won't happen. Evolve, tweak and gain experience. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
Difference is, we don't have someone like Nasser at the helm!
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From the recent touring squad. If they don't make any changes to personnel this is what I would go for.
Cook (They won't drop him so no point pretending otehrwise)
Lyth (deserves a shot and he's a specialist opener)
Ballance (Had a positive start to his test career)
Root (Will push on now and have an excellent career)
Bell (Will be given one last shot so that the middle order isn't too inexperienced for the remainder of the summer)
Rashid (We need a spinner - If we don't pick a specialist down the order then i'd rather we made use of a wrist spinner)
Buttler (If he can express himself throughout his innings rather than waiting for wickets to fall he would gain more confidence)
Stokes (Brings some bit to an attack. Has some good wheels and can be a useful 4th seamer)
Wood (He's in the squad and Ive seen enough of Broad)
Plunkett (If he can recover the form from last year, great)
Anderson (Leader of the attack and if the ball swings, he's a must pick!)
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I'd like a bit of variety and take a look at a left armed like Footitt,who seems in good knick?
Cook
Lyth
Ballance
Bell
Root
Stokes
Butler
Rashid
Anderson
Broad
Footitt/wood/kerplunkett
It's a real shame Broad has lost his batting as that's a dodgy tail!
Basically, we're doomed!
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England just don't have a batsmen that other countries fear, no one even reliable now either. Surely Taylor is better than most of these guys? Pick bowlers, pick batsmen, pick an all rounder if you have one good enough ( I think stokes may be ok ) not 3 all rounders. So many back room staff and admin over complicating a game of cricket!
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From the recent touring squad. If they don't make any changes to personnel this is what I would go for.
Cook (They won't drop him so no point pretending otehrwise)
Lyth (deserves a shot and he's a specialist opener)
Ballance (Had a positive start to his test career)
Root (Will push on now and have an excellent career)
Bell (Will be given one last shot so that the middle order isn't too inexperienced for the remainder of the summer)
Rashid (We need a spinner - If we don't pick a specialist down the order then i'd rather we made use of a wrist spinner)
Buttler (If he can express himself throughout his innings rather than waiting for wickets to fall he would gain more confidence)
Stokes (Brings some bit to an attack. Has some good wheels and can be a useful 4th seamer)
Wood (He's in the squad and Ive seen enough of Broad)
Plunkett (If he can recover the form from last year, great)
Anderson (Leader of the attack and if the ball swings, he's a must pick!)
That's the best team anyone's picked inc the England selectors.
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Most mentions about Buttler seem to concentrate on comments about his batting. For the England 1st Team shouldn't we concentrate on a quality keeper with the batting as a bonus? Not sure who would be the best pick for this but I don't think I've seen an innings for England with Buttler behind the sticks where there hasn't been a missed stumping, dropped catch etc! At this level these mistakes are often costly!
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In everyone's opinion, who is the best current English keeper? Surely can't be Buttler?! I'm looking for purely on keeping ability, not keeper/batsman. We should look at the batting side of it for limited overs cricket but for tests we simply need our best keeper IMO.
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In everyone's opinion, who is the best current English keeper? Surely can't be Buttler?! I'm looking for purely on keeping ability, not keeper/batsman. We should look at the batting side of it for limited overs cricket but for tests we simply need our best keeper IMO.
Chris Read is a quality gloveman
James Foster is also very good
Michael Bates, formerly of Hampshire, was the best young keeper I've seen, but he is currently without a county :(
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I've always thought Read and Foster have been unlucky not to get more of a go. I'm not as clued up on county cricket as I was say 5-10 years ago, but these names were been branded around back then. Are there no more young guns coming through?
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Michael Bates, formerly of Hampshire, was the best young keeper I've seen, but he is currently without a county :(
Believe he was training with Essex through the winter and has signed some kind of professional minor counties contract with Wilts for this season. Agreed over how good he is, one of the best I've seen I think.
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I've always thought Read and Foster have been unlucky not to get more of a go. I'm not as clued up on county cricket as I was say 5-10 years ago, but these names were been branded around back then. Are there no more young guns coming through?
When Chris Reeds name is mentioned i remember when in a test match he ducked under a full ball and was bowled don't think he played another test after that.
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When Chris Reeds name is mentioned i remember when in a test match he ducked under a full ball and was bowled don't think he played another test after that.
you mean the expertly aimed late dipping slower ball chris cairns bowled.
give the bowler some credit. It's what he was trying to do.
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you mean the expertly aimed late dipping slower ball chris cairns bowled.
give the bowler some credit. It's what he was trying to do.
Yes that's the one Chris.No disrespect to the Cairns or Chis Reed still think it was a basic mistake.
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and he did play...well, the remainder of his test career after that - it happened on his debut!
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and he did play...well, the remainder of his test career after that - it happened on his debut!
Oh right had a look at his stats 23 innings ave 18.95.
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not quite good enough with the bat for the top level - though he did improve later in his career to the extent that he may well have done better if given another go. Hell of a gloveman though...
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but if we continue to pick stokes and ali, the likes of Foster and Read could bat at 8 in the line-up anyway, which lessens the expectations on their runs in my book.
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but if we continue to pick stokes and ali, the likes of Foster and Read could bat at 8 in the line-up anyway, which lessens the expectations on their runs in my book.
Nooooooo don't pick Foster. Essex don't have a reserve Keeper on their books, whilst he would no doubt be good for England, he's excellent for Essex! :)
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Read and Foster are hardly a selection for the future.
Priors wicket keeping improved dramatically whilst he was in the England team I guess we will have to give Butler the same opportunity.
This assumes that you think Buttler is the best batsmen. I think it's a real Shame Steve Davis has had to give up the gloves he is a classy player.
Although one for the future is Ben Cox at Worcester. Great behind the stumps and improving with the bat.
PS - I'm a massive Worcester fan so a little biased but still he looks good.
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Foster and Read are the best 2 keepers in my opinion, but can't see England giving them another go, especially as Bairstow seems to be cemented in as the number 2 keeper for whatever reason. The only person I really can't believe they left out was Lyth - he must be shaking his head thinking what more do I have to do in a season to get a go!
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For what it is worth, my belief is that Jos Buttler is a superstar in the making and will end up batting at 6 (or higher for Eng) Speaking to a few former pro's the view is that Billings is a better gloveman.
This is what Athers has written in today's times. The implicit criticism of Cook is made with the scalpel - but silently...
"England must resist temptation to make wholesale clear out"
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/cricket/article4430691.ece (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/cricket/article4430691.ece)
Ignited at the end by a surface that hurried the series to a hasty and thrilling conclusion, the quality of the cricket played by both teams throughout the series could not hide that this was a second division contest, fourth against eighth in the world. Mediocre? Colin Graves was half-right.
As suggested here after the win in Grenada, these febrile times in English cricket exaggerate reactions to every victory or defeat. The “sack ’em all” brigade will be out in days to come, just as the pro-Cook and Moores brigade was to the fore last week. Such heightened, short-term responses are unhelpful.
There is much to like about England’s emerging players, the potential of the squad, and they did dominate here for long periods, but there are also too many holes in a team who have dropped to fourth in the world Test rankings for a reason. They remain decent, hard-working and committed but lack an opener, a spinner, some imagination and a killer instinct.
These weaknesses were highlighted again in Barbados, another could’ve, should’ve, would’ve game to go alongside others in the recent past when England have had their foot on their opponent’s throat but been unable to extinguish the last breath. It was a bad defeat: in three days, having won a good toss and established a decent first-innings lead, a really bad defeat.
How good it was, though, to see a West Indies team playing with discipline and pride, and the Kensington Oval rocking as the lights dimmed on the series. Something stirred here. Old greats hugged each other on the outfield and new, young players sensed the communal pride felt in the achievement. There was something to grasp on to for Phil Simmons, the new coach, as he attempts to forge a renewed spirit.
As for England, the next series looms quickly but there will be a sense of limbo now as we wait for the new director of England cricket to be appointed. Given the job spec, which heralds this man as accountable and the public face of the team, nothing can happen beforehand. Tom Harrison, the chief executive, has been in New York this week and Graves, the incoming chairman, in the Caribbean. Interviews have not yet been held, and while Andrew Strauss is the favourite, nothing yet is written in stone.
In any case, there is too much emphasis now on men in suits, or tracksuits. For all the need for a strategist and a planner, whoever takes that job is going to be hard pushed to have a profound influence. Three pillars are vital for the England cricket team to be strong: a county system that produces good international cricketers — one, for example, that produces a decent spinner somewhere along the line; a main selector (it could be the coach if his responsibilities are broadened), someone with accountability and authority to select the side, who can recognise who the best players are and who is forthright enough and independent enough to pick them; and then a strong, imaginative captain. All the rest is blather.
In the short term, the defeat in Bridgetown increases the heat on two men in particular, one of whom is not directly correlated with the above. Peter Moores was always going to get a shorter honeymoon period than most, given his previous tenure, and was dealt a shabby hand for his second go, but the ECB’s moves in recent weeks seem designed to increase speculation about his post.
Strauss is known to be lukewarm about Moores, given their previous association. Graves’s comments about the need for an “inquiry” should a “mediocre” West Indies not be beaten have heightened speculation, as has the recent news that Jason Gillespie has turned down the chance to apply for the coaching job in South Australia. Given the power vacuum, and given that New Zealand are already in England preparing for the series, it seems highly unlikely that Moores will not be given the opportunity to try to develop this young side in the near term.
When appointed, the new director may have responsibilities for selection and so James Whitaker’s position is vulnerable. As well as focusing on personalities, the system whereby the selectors pick a squad only for them then to take a back seat when the final XI is picked by the captain and coach seems odd. The collaborative system allows for a gap, through which, say, Adil Rashid might have fallen this tour. The selectors pick him in the squad; the captain and coach do not fancy him and the player is left kicking his heels and confused. Accountability is missing. That is where the thread of strong system, good selection and imaginative captaincy is vital.
English cricket needs to get to a situation where selecting the leading spinner for the county champions is not perceived as a “risk”; the chief selector needs to have enough influence and independence of mind to, if needs be, select a player when the conditions demand despite the reservations of others; and the captain needs to have the imagination to know how to use him. Once this thread is seamless and strong, the focus on suits and tracksuits will be seen for the irrelevance it is. It is, for example, neither the fault of Moeen Ali nor Moores that England are asking their main spinner to learn his craft in the middle of a Test match. Ali remains an exciting prospect, whose limitations were exposed here but will be camouflaged more in English conditions, and who must now be given time to improve, along with England’s other emerging players.
The return of Jonathan Trott, though, was a selection laced with uneccessary risk and was a misjudgment. Some may argue that it was a risk that England had to take. But why? Surely the more England can move on from the implosion in the Ashes under Andy Flower the better. It is not as if there are a lack of alternatives at the top of the order (Adam Lyth, Alex Hales, Mark Stoneman). Returning to a 34-year-old who had taken time out of the game, who had a suspected weakness against the short ball, who was part of a broken past and playing him out of position, smacked of poor judgment and — again — a lack of faith in the players emerging from the county system. His retirement has taken the decision out of the hands of the selectors.
The truth is that England’s team right now is neither as bad nor as good as those who see life in simple black and white terms would think. After all, had Jos Buttler stumped Jermaine Blackwood on four, we might now be reflecting on a 2-0 series victory. But going overboard would have been misguided with a team who lack an opener, a good spinner and have shown themselves to lack the belief and knowhow to convert winning positions into victories.
That is the most worrying aspect: the way they have struggled to convert winning positions again and again. At Lord’s against Sri Lanka last year they enjoyed a huge first-innings advantage; at Headingley, in the next Test, they threw away a winning position, as they did on the first day at Lord’s against India. They could not convert advantage to victory in Antigua or Barbados.
The focus for such failings should not fall upon off-field personnel. The game is played on the field, not in the boardroom.
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James Harris!