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General Cricket => World Cricket => England => Topic started by: lewis_faulds on May 11, 2015, 06:19:39 PM
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According to SSN, KP is to meet Andrew Strauss and Tom Harrison tonight.
From what's being said on twitter, it's either to tell him he's got no chance of getting picked or he's being considered for the Tests vs NZ - incidentally, which are being discussed by ECB tomorrow.
So, we could see yet another chapter in the KP saga unfold in the next few days.
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Yeah but....it cant be that he has no chance can it?
Graves has already said he has to score county runs
Its gonna be to clear the decks and say he is eligable like everybody else
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How many of the current crop would actually have an issue with him in the team?
Cook
Broad
Jimmy?
The guys is a world apart from any other english batter and if he continues batting the way he is Id play him till he is 70 provided he's fit enough. Pure class
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If he continues to score big runs theres no justification to keep him out of the England team.
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The question might be more where does he fit in?
Lyth to open-he must get a chance...or play only one or jordan and stokes-making a gap that way...
Bell root and ballance are all pretty solid
Tricky?
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How many of the current crop would actually have an issue with him in the team?
Cook
Broad
Jimmy?
The guys is a world apart from any other english batter and if he continues batting the way he is Id play him till he is 70 provided he's fit enough. Pure class
Yes those 3 probably but....graves said if he scores runs hes eligable so they will prob have to get on with it
Im not a fan of KP but he is not the only ego in the room im sure
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The question might be more where does he fit in?
Lyth to open-he must get a chance...or play only one or jordan and stokes-making a gap that way...
Bell root and ballance are all pretty solid
Tricky?
Apart from Root and balance you can drop the lot to get KP in.
As for not getting on with folk... As you said they need to get on with it.
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@Ayrtek any chance of him giving your helmets another go
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I guess the only way to put this KP matter to rest would be let him in the England side and then kick him out again. Otherwise, he is not going away quietly.
I suspect Strauss will kindly remind KP that this "doos" has not forgotten the royal highness KP's bad behavior and fledgling form. YOU'RE OUTTA HERE!!!! :D
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The question might be more where does he fit in?
Lyth to open-he must get a chance...or play only one or jordan and stokes-making a gap that way...
Bell root and ballance are all pretty solid
Tricky?
Although a brillant fielder Jordan has he showed against the windes he is not yet ready with the bat or the ball.
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Cook, root, ballance, kp, bell, stokes, Ali, butler, plunkett,broad, anderson
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Cook, root, ballance, kp, bell, stokes, Ali, butler, plunkett,broad, anderson
Thats a decent side presuming kp returns
Yr moving Root from 5 to open after his last year in the middle order?
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Thats a decent side presuming kp returns
Yr moving Root from 5 to open after his last year in the middle order?
Let's assume root is a better player than 2/3 years ago and we need to play our best 11 players. Other option is to open with ballance. I personally think Bell would welcome kp back, takes a bit of pressure off him in the middle order. If you are going to win the ashes you need to wear down the likes of Harris and Johnson - make them bowl lots of overs and see how long they keep their pace up plus remain injury free.
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Cook, root, ballance, kp, bell, stokes, Ali, butler, plunkett,broad, anderson
A decent team wouldn't want Root opening.
Play lyth leave out Ali.
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A decent team wouldn't want Root opening.
Play lyth leave out Ali.
And go in with a 4 man attack... :-[?
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Good point.nice how we can have slightly differing views and others give theirs without a certain member piling in and peeing everyone off
:)
You have cook and ballance opening its slow going but yes they could blunt the aussies for a while
If this works as everyone expects i think it would be a real shame lyth does not fit
But its 11 a side and unless Ali gets the boot there is no room
Root can spin it but that would not be enough over five tests-unless we are on green seaming wickets
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And go in with a 4 man attack... :-[?
Not ideal particularly if one breaks down but don't forget Stokes is there
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I don't think we'll be capable of going in with 4 until we find a full time spinner capable of holding a space personally, you've also got to look at the long term with Anderson and Broad already being some of the most bowled players in the world at the moment, adding further pressure on them could start to reduce their career.
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Good point.nice how we can have slightly differing views and others give theirs without a certain member piling in and peeing everyone off
:)
You have cook and ballance opening its slow going but yes they could blunt the aussies for a while
If this works as everyone expects i think it would be a real shame lyth does not fit
But its 11 a side and unless Ali gets the boot there is no room
Root can spin it but that would not be enough over five tests-unless we are on green seaming wickets
KP can send some offies down too, get him in the side!
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KP can send some offies down too, get him in the side!
You are right about kp Cam when he started his career i played against him he was bowling offies.
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Rumours are that kp has been told he won't play for England again.
Probably was expected but a lot of fans and the paying public will not be pleased.
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http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/32699465 (http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/32699465)
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Rumours are that kp has been told he won't play for England again.
Probably was expected but a lot of fans and the paying public will not be pleased.
Strauss: "well batted today Kev, 326 not out is a great innings"
KP: "Thanks Straussy"
Strauss: "Don't call me that you c###, I only wanted to say you'll never play for England again"
KP: "cheers you doos, I could've been making loads more money playing hit and giggle if I'd know sooner, I'm off the the IPL."
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I sincerely hope these reports turn out not to be true - surely the ECB have learnt that the previous 'sacking' was an error and has only fuelled the media's obsession with him, so why try and do it all over again?! If he now goes and gets several championship hundreds (as he could well do in this kind of form) then the whole issue will just raise its head again in a month's time and the saga will go on.
As much as it may be best for him not to be in the team due to disruptiveness etc., the ECB's management of the whole situation has been abysmal, just like it was with the sacking of Moores, Graves' statements before the WI tour, the sacking of Cook from the ODI captaincy... Some things never change it seems.
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And so, in the space of 48 hours the great hopes for English cricket (graves and Strauss) have revealed their true colours in defending leaks (when the mere fact it leaked means someone leaked it) and Strauss is picking on favourites, mates and good guyness over merit.
ECB you are a disgrace yet again and yet again, you will cause half the public to actively want England cricket to fail. Well done. I'm sore the ECB lovers will be dancing in their houses and saying 'I'll support them'
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Why do the ecb insist on the "never play for England" line.
Why not merely pick a squad. And when questioned r.e kp. Just say he wasn't selected as other players in his slot. As they did with Thorpe etc.
It's getting boring. Like there seeking attention. But all there doing is alienating fans.
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And so, in the space of 48 hours the great hopes for English cricket (graves and Strauss) have revealed their true colours in defending leaks (when the mere fact it leaked means someone leaked it) and Strauss is picking on favourites, mates and good guyness over merit.
ECB you are a disgrace yet again and yet again, you will cause half the public to actively want England cricket to fail. Well done. I'm sore the ECB lovers will be dancing in their houses and saying 'I'll support them'
Graves and Strauss???
I think this is a Strauss call alone. The ECB got him in because they are worried about too any Yorkshiremen taking over. Why else would there be rumours of them wanting Graves' to resign already.
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If these reports are true.. Then atleast this means closure.
Pietersen's probably the only English batsman I've enjoyed watching in the past decade, him and maybe an inform bell. The rest get runs, but i don't enjoy watching those accumulators.
Ah well :(
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People may agree or disagree with me, but in a time of turmoil, the ECB seem to be trying to stick to their decision on KP and no matter what he does, he will not be fairly considered due to the precedent set by Downton etc. The 2012 saga and reintegration was bad enough and I think, the ECB think that anymore reintegration processes would damage the ashes chances (even more).
It's a sad day when arguably the most entertaining cricketer of the past decade is cast aside in favour of a mediocrity.
The ECB must be expectant of the Ashes being retained by the Australians that much that they don't even bother inviting KP back. The sad, even tragic, thing about the whole affair is that KP intrigued and captured the attention of the public. Even now, we've got a thread in honour of whether he will or won't - a feat that no other player in English cricket could achieve.
For people like me, who've recently fallen out of love with cricket, a KP return would've most probably spurred me on to playing again - and this could've worked for the ECB to regain the numbers of participants in cricket.
Shame on the ECB for killing the ubiquity of having KP on TV; although, the odds for another Australian whitewash are decent! ;)
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Devils advocate here.
If KP is as disruptive as is made to believe then is their really any point discussing this issue? Sometimes you have to stick by tough decisions and it seems this is the case. The easy thing to do would be to let him back in the team and run the risk of manifesting itself all over again. Start again with no individual being bigger than the team. Perhaps he shouldn't be the only one cast aside.
Having said that I think the whole disruptive thing has been blown out of proportion and it was more a personality clash with the wrong individuals who held some sort of power. All great teams have members that don't get along but they make it work for the better of their team. It didn't work for too long in the English cricket team.
It's a shame we won't see him in the upcoming ashes as he's the one of the few batsman I fear can hurt us every time he walks out to bat.
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KP => Go to IPL, help Sunrisers win the first IPL title. Show ECB what they are missing out on ....
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Same as NZ with Ryder I think. If he was being a good boy Ryder would be in the first 5 picked for NZ. NZ took a stand and have now moved on.
KP's burned too many bridges, England have to get on with cricket without him.
On another note, I do see NZ have moved up to 3 on the test rankings. Boult and Southee are going to lay waste to your KP free batting line up...
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"Difficult" players need to be managed properly, not dropped. The English "headmaster" approach doesn't work for adults. ECB would have probably dropped Shane Warne had they been in charge of him.
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"Difficult" players need to be managed properly, not dropped. The English "headmaster" approach doesn't work for adults. ECB would have probably dropped Shane Warne had they been in charge of him.
Warne played under strong captains. Cook and Strauss don't appear from afar to come close.
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If the reports are correct then I (and also a large number of others from all over the world) look forward to hearing the explanation at the press conference as to why they can't accommodate such a talent.
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I agree with potzy!
KP still doesn't think he has done anything wrong, it would be crazy if after all this time the ECB went back on this, you can't come back from the things that have happened. Move forward, which would include dropping Broad.
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Just staggers belief that he is told to score runs in county cricket then Told thanks but still no chance. On what grounds?? Will be interesting to hear the ECB BS and will show the Strauss was the main to become part of the existing establishment that didn't give two hoots what the fans want or what is best for the England side just what's best for them.
Like him or hate him on his form and the form of a lot of current squad he while he in just on form alone in my opinion
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The issue with this is always going to be that when he breaks records in the County Championship this season, and if England don't win a series, the ECB is going to look incredibly foolish!
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I think the fact that you guys are crying over KP's apparent exclusion shows how much trouble England are in. Invest in your next generation, KP is still on the downward spiral. Scores a 300* awesome, what else has he done since he left the England side? Wrote a tell all book, talked some rubbish with Ponting live on TV, captained the Dare devils to one of the worst seasons ever.
Guys like him are poisonous in a team environment. I'm sure there are a lot of coaches on here who would say that one of the worst things a team can have are selfish, all for themselves players. I would rather have a team of guys who want to get better, train hard, get on with each other and work towards the teams goals.
So your team is having a terrible period, WELCOME TO THE LIFE OF A KIWI SUPPORTER!
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It's official. England are now the laughing stock of the cricketing world. Leaving by far their best play out in the cold is just so hilarious. Bring on the 5 - Nil white wash Ashes series
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I think the fact that you guys are crying over KP's apparent exclusion shows how much trouble England are in. Invest in your next generation, KP is still on the downward spiral. Scores a 300* awesome, what else has he done since he left the England side? Wrote a tell all book, talked some rubbish with Ponting live on TV, captained the Dare devils to one of the worst seasons ever.
Guys like him are poisonous in a team environment. I'm sure there are a lot of coaches on here who would say that one of the worst things a team can have are selfish, all for themselves players. I would rather have a team of guys who want to get better, train hard, get on with each other and work towards the teams goals.
So your team is having a terrible period, WELCOME TO THE LIFE OF A KIWI SUPPORTER!
In some ways I agree with what your saying. The point for me though is he is still one of the best middle order players we have an still arguable our best bat along side Root. I do believe he can be a tough bloke to manage but that's what coaches etc are for. I also do believe that he wants the side he plays for to do well. So is t totally selfish but from experience the greats in any profession have an element of selfishness from the world of sport of business that's what sets them apart from a lot of others.
One thing is for sure at the moment we will lose to NZ and get embarrassed by Austrailia, neither see will be worried about our side except maybe Root and Anderson in home conditions. KP was also I believe liked by a lot of the younger squad players during his time , so really only like has been said. Cook, broad & Jimmy . The biggest issue I guess would be cook as captain but the captain should put the team first but a team of Cook and Strauss was never going to really give KP a chance where they!!
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So is t totally selfish but from experience the greats in any profession have an element of selfishness from the world of sport of business that's what sets them apart from a lot of others.
I know what your saying about selfishness but if you look at the greats in all sports, there are not too many you would put in the same box as KP (except Mayweather)
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Graves and Strauss???
I think this is a Strauss call alone. The ECB got him in because they are worried about too any Yorkshiremen taking over. Why else would there be rumours of them wanting Graves' to resign already.
Graves has stated that the ECB didn't leak over moores.. Well that's a lie isn't it. The decision was taken by who?? Meaning that only x people would know about it (ie all ECB), and yet it manages to leak... Is there really. Or leaking at the ECB??? Or is he simply going down the PR route of 'not us gov'
As for Strauss.. Well, he's turned England into more of a laughing stock than ever,splitting the cricket support in the country in two yet again.. Not exactly the right move
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I think the fact that you guys are crying over KP's apparent exclusion shows how much trouble England are in. Invest in your next generation, KP is still on the downward spiral. Scores a 300* awesome, what else has he done since he left the England side? Wrote a tell all book, talked some rubbish with Ponting live on TV, captained the Dare devils to one of the worst seasons ever.
Guys like him are poisonous in a team environment. I'm sure there are a lot of coaches on here who would say that one of the worst things a team can have are selfish, all for themselves players. I would rather have a team of guys who want to get better, train hard, get on with each other and work towards the teams goals.
So your team is having a terrible period, WELCOME TO THE LIFE OF A KIWI SUPPORTER!
This.
You are all talking about dropping someone in our existing line-up or moving them out of a position that they are doing well in to accommodate KP.
These are young English cricketers that are ready to give the next 10 years to England, and who could be superb - what will you get out of KP, another 2 years and a retirement that suits himself and not the team?
Big deal, he whacked 300 against a lame second division county - something that say Robson or Carberry might do, and no-one would be clamouring for their inclusion.
It's a marvellous achievement, he's a very fine player, but he's caused his own downfall, and simply doesn't fit in anymore - let it go and move on!
The Ryder comparison is very apt!!
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This.
You are all talking about dropping someone in our existing line-up or moving them out of a position that they are doing well in to accommodate KP.
These are young English cricketers that are ready to give the next 10 years to England, and who could be superb - what will you get out of KP, another 2 years and a retirement that suits himself and not the team?
Big deal, he whacked 300 against a lame second division county - something that say Robson or Carberry might do, and no-one would be clamouring for their inclusion.
It's a marvellous achievement, he's a very fine player, but he's caused his own downfall, and simply doesn't fit in anymore - let it go and move on!
The Ryder comparison is very apt!!
so you are happy the way the ECB are acting? The way Graves and Struass are already acting? The way Cook is untouchable? The way England is used as a school rather than letting guys learn in county cricket.. The whole thing is a disgrace and heads obviously still need to roll at the ECB as nothing has changed. The sheer fact cricket is in turmoil in this county is a symptom of the same disillusionment that things like this fuel. Just saying 'move on' is basically sticking our heads in the sand, hoping it goes away and at teh same time saying bye to a few more cricket followers who will give up with the game at a time when the game simply can not afford to lose people. It's rapidly becoming closer and closer to sports like polo. sad sad times still for Team ECB
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When you score 326* and the next highest scorer is a certain sangakarra, one of the best batsmen in the current international scene, and he only scored 36. Then yeah it matters. Weather against a poor side or not.
Hales scored 200 plus and was being championed. But he's 22 in 2 innings in the current round hasn't seemed to dampen people's views on him.
runs matter.
Bat kp out of position. Make him open. Bat him 6. We don't need 11 allrounder. Replace one of them.
If he fails against new zealand. They can drop him on form and leave it as. Be a proper way to do it. Than this current circus.
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If only he'd been caught before he got to 100, would of made this all much simpler :D.
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For me i cant see KP getting into this team right now to bat in the middle order (the only way would be to move Root to open as already suggested but personally i dont think he is an opener). I downloaded a bbc 5 live podcast this morning for my journey in and i think Simon Hughes made a good point. He thinks England should us KP as a "super sub" for the ashes. If either of Ballance, Bell or Root suffers an injury or a drastic drop in form they know they could pretty much parachute KP in.
Personally i like that idea, it keeps KP open to playing but means he has to keep scoring runs to be in with a shout. I think its unreasonable to suggest Ballance, Bell or Root should be dropped right now. KP scoring runs will keep them on their toes and should ensure they dont slack, especially as with every low score or failure the fans/media will immediately ask what about KP!
If he has been told there is no chance of being selected (expect carefully planned words from Strauss/ECB in the press conference today that wont actually say that) i suspect KP will jack in county cricket and go and play t20 around the world anyway. Cant say i'd blame him if he did to be honest, perhaps it would be best for all and a line could truly drawn under this once and for all?
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For me i cant see KP getting into this team right now to bat in the middle order (the only way would be to move Root to open as already suggested but personally i dont think he is an opener). I downloaded a bbc 5 live podcast this morning for my journey in and i think Simon Hughes made a good point. He thinks England should us KP as a "super sub" for the ashes. If either of Ballance, Bell or Root suffers an injury or a drastic drop in form they know they could pretty much parachute KP in.
Personally i like that idea, it keeps KP open to playing but means he has to keep scoring runs to be in with a shout. I think its unreasonable to suggest Ballance, Bell or Root should be dropped right now. KP scoring runs will keep them on their toes and should ensure they dont slack, especially as with every low score or failure the fans/media will immediately ask what about KP!
If he has been told there is no chance of being selected (expect carefully planned words from Strauss/ECB in the press conference today that wont actually say that) i suspect KP will jack in county cricket and go and play t20 around the world anyway. Cant say i'd blame him if he did to be honest, perhaps it would be best for all and a line could truly drawn under this once and for all?
no place for someone with some form?? yet people will defend a woeful Cook?? a even worse Broad?? An all rounder who isn't upto international cricket in Jordan?? A 'spinner' in Ali who is about as international class as a chocolate tea pot..Yeah, England certainly have no spots available.. they must be winning allt heir games or something.. maybe that middle order is piling on the runs game in game out?? (didn't bell only have one score against a really really really poor WI for example??)
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no place for someone with some form?? yet people will defend a woeful Cook?? a even worse Broad?? An all rounder who isn't upto international cricket in Jordan?? A 'spinner' in Ali who is about as international class as a chocolate tea pot..Yeah, England certainly have no spots available.. they must be winning allt heir games or something.. maybe that middle order is piling on the runs game in game out?? (didn't bell only have one score against a really really really poor WI for example??)
KP has just played one exceptional innings, does that count as being in form? Personally i dont think. I dont agree with all these people saying "its just Leicestershire" as you can only get runs against the bowling attacks you face. If they want to pick the in form batsman from county cricket this season then it should be Alex Hales, his form has been considerably greater than KP's.
I agree on the points you've made regarding Cook (who i thought looked in better touch in WI), Broad, Ali and Jordan. However, bringing KP in for one of them isnt really an option (perhaps for Ali and not play a specialist spinner) in my opinion.
Bell got a hundred in the first test and then had two bad games, leading up to that he has done enough to stay in (again in my opinion). Root and Ballance had good series in the WI. I think KP should be in the mix for selection, i really do however right now i think its harsh on the others to drop them for him (assuming its a shoot out for 3 spaces between KP, Ballance, Root and Bell). Things change quickly in cricket and Bell will need to show his experience in that middle order aginst NZ and Aus pretty quickly.
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I'm hoping he's been told he can't be selected for the New Zealand Tests, but will be considered for Ashes if he keeps scoring runs. Doubt that's the case though...
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I don't think the ECB can sink any lower
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I'm hoping he's been told he can't be selected for the New Zealand Tests, but will be considered for Ashes if he keeps scoring runs. Doubt that's the case though...
i'm not 100 per cent sure of this but don't think he is available for the NZ series anyway, due to play IPL....
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i'm not 100 per cent sure of this but don't think he is available for the NZ series anyway, due to play IPL....
He's also got a CPL contract signed during the ashes which he'd have to break out of even if he was selected.
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R.e. his ipl contraCt. Sunrises cancelled the group stage. But on the condition they can call on him for the semis and final.
4 non Indians rule.
warner opener and captain.
Henriques allrounder in runs and wickets currently
Morgan and bopara swapping and changing dependant on conditions.
Boult keeping steyn out of side.
kp.just going to watch?
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He's also got a CPL contract signed during the ashes which he'd have to break out of even if he was selected.
Was mentioned on the 5live podcast that he would miss the first ashes test due to his CPL commitments. However, if he was to get in the team (as unlikely as it now seems) cant help but think that something would be worked out.
Wasnt the IPL return because the Sunrisers had a few players unavailable for the latter stages of the IPL (New Zealanders if i remember correctly) and was part of the deal he'd return if they qualified?
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Boult's actually the one out of the side at the moment with neither him nor Steyn playing. If he returned he'd probably end up replacing Bopara who they've done an England with and stuck him down the order after he played his best innings so far at 3 ???.
Edit : Or was until I missed the game yesterday :D.
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Boult's actually the one out of the side at the moment with neither him nor Steyn playing. If he returned he'd probably end up replacing Bopara who they've done an England with and stuck him down the order after he played his best innings so far at 3 ???.
Edit : Or was until I missed the game yesterday :D.
I missed the last to sunrises game. But knew I'd seen Boult play yesterday. Lol.
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Of course there's room in the test side for kp a player a true test match winner and player who can take the game away from you can Ali Jordan or balance who are all still learning do that.
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Of course there's room in the test side for kp a player a true test match winner and player who can take the game away from you can Ali Jordan or balance who are all still learning do that.
how old is ali, jordan, ballance? KP was 24 when he tore a great Australian team apart in the 2005 ashes. can any of these even profess to be able to do that?? (given no side around today is as good as that team anyway!).
The ECB and their mishandling yet again is tearing English cricket apart.. has it ever been as low as it has been since jan 2014??
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There seems to be a lot of speculation - suggesting some things that are or aren't being said. everyone is complaining that the ECB are stuck, yet they have got Graves and Strauss in and rid of Moores. What more do you want? I guess they could just disband England cricket in total?
One step at a time.
I bet the reason why Vaughan didn't get the job is because he'd want KP. Maybe Graves is being out-voted as he backed KP when he didn't have to. He spoke with him and said play. Graves is the sort of guy who wants the best, no matter what.
Whatever happens, and whatever decisions are made. They should give an explanation why they have made the decision they have.
I'm not against KP, I think he'd do well. You cant drop Ballance or Root, Bell is doing okay but is the one who is most "at risk". There's no point opening with KP when there are more deserving characters (Lyth). He could bat at 6, but that would mean just 4 bowlers and Root as the part timer.
There is definitely a worry that it is becoming too Yorkshire focussed. Maybe why Cook is continuing to be captain. You can see it happening though.
Graves (chairman), Gillespie (coach), Farbrace (assistant) and Root (captain). Then Lyth, Rashid, Plunkett, Ballance, Bairstow, Brooks, Bresnan all being in the selectors minds. Slot Vaughan in to Strauss' position and you could move it to Headingley.
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Strauss doesn't trust KP so he isn't going to play for England this summer. But he is very happy with Cook being skipper. Bugger picking blokes on form it's all about who is trusted and liked apparently. Oh what a shambles English cricket is with all the leaks, sackings, non selections, selections etc!!!
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Strausse claims trust issues means he won't pick Pietersen this summer.
Atleast he didn't say he was sacked.
Just as Pietersen goes to 350
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I feel KP has got a "good" couple of international years ahead of him!! Why not just play for another country? SA maybe?
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Said words like honest and frank, followed it up with trust issues. He'll be at home at the ECB, spin doctor. What trust issues? He isn't asking to be put in charge of ECBs finances?!
Doesn't trust KP as a person.
But trusts cook to lead and score runs for England.
Baffling ???
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I cant help thinking we are missing something, why why why cant the ECB say they are moving on and continuing with younger players.
by making it a trust issue it becomes a personal matter which should have no place in a so called professional work place-which is what it is.
this is heading for meltdown
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Trust issues is just the ecb excuse. Yes man Strauss was employed on the basis that he would agree with them on the kp issue. That's why Stewart and Vaughan had no chance of getting the job! They both wanted him back.
I don't see how the fans and players trust the ecb with all these leaks. Trust is a 2 way street.
Don't see England winning a test match for some time. They won't win a test all summer and won't win one against South Africa either.
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I cant help thinking we are missing something, why why why cant the ECB say they are moving on and continuing with younger players.
by making it a trust issue it becomes a personal matter which should have no place in a so called professional work place-which is what it is.
this is heading for meltdown
younger players?? Cook is 31, bell 32, broad is body wise old.. anderson.. all are old.. why aren't these also fired if we are 'moving on'.. Bell avg's 31 over the last 12 months.. that's terrible form given who England have played.. Cook has been poor.. Broad has been poor.. Ali isn't good enough.. why is it ok by you ECB supporters to persist with these guys but not KP?? Could any of these play an innings like KP? Are any of these feared like teams fear KP??
ECB shambles yet again
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https://twitter.com/pkelso/status/598071937810767872 (https://twitter.com/pkelso/status/598071937810767872)
If true, this is mental
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KP refused to stay in the same hotel as others on te last ashes tour.
all I known is it time to rebuild for me it time for Root (who would have thought I would say this) to skipper and move on it dragging on.
Two things spring to mind
Te incompetence of the Ecb at the highest level to manage a person and also KP for being a idiot.
Sorry mess hopefully we can all move on and yes it is us fans who have been ripped off at the end of the day by it all KP and the ECB can jog on
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https://twitter.com/pkelso/status/598071937810767872 (https://twitter.com/pkelso/status/598071937810767872)
If true, this is mental
Says he doesn't trust him then offers him a job as an advisor.
What a joke!
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Says he doesn't trust him then offers him a job as an advisor.
What a joke!
Yes i agree, wouldnt you need to trust your advisors?
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"Sorry mess hopefully we can all move on"
the media wont that's for sure
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younger players?? Cook is 31, bell 32, broad is body wise old.. anderson.. all are old.. why aren't these also fired if we are 'moving on'.. Bell avg's 31 over the last 12 months.. that's terrible form given who England have played.. Cook has been poor.. Broad has been poor.. Ali isn't good enough.. why is it ok by you ECB supporters to persist with these guys but not KP?? Could any of these play an innings like KP? Are any of these feared like teams fear KP??
ECB shambles yet again
I was thinking more of Lyth,ballance and Root, the last 2 bat 3 and 4 so there's an argument they will get better and we should invest in younger guys,to take the team forward
I agree with you it's a shambles,badly handled and the ECB has a huge amount of work to do to get fans back on side.it's been a bloodbath.
At some point with players you weigh up what they bring and make a call on their career, KP is no exception.
I know you wont agree but out of this total and utter mess the right decision has been made-albeit in a total abortion of a process
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I was thinking more of Lyth,ballance and Root, the last 2 bat 3 and 4 so there's an argument they will get better and we should invest in younger guys,to take the team forward
I agree with you it's a shambles,badly handled and the ECB has a huge amount of work to do to get fans back on side.it's been a bloodbath.
At some point with players you weigh up what they bring and make a call on their career, KP is no exception.
I know you wont agree but out of this total and utter mess the right decision has been made-albeit in a total abortion of a process
If they apply the same rules to all I'd agree. Cook should go, broad, Ali and probably bell for only avg'ing 31 for the last year. Poor form all round, mixed in with losing or not winning tests.. Shambles and duel standards.. That's why people are so up in arms and not will in move on. Nothing really to do with KP the person
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If Cook was debuting in the West Indies would he have gotten a pass mark as a batsman?
Seems crazy to be so dead set against him with the amount of runs behind him, particularly when replacements are pretty thin on the ground.
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To be fair, Strauss has called everything else right and he isn't ruling out a return for KP.
Pietersen will not be selected in "short-term"
Moores "had tactics and strategy limitations" - Jason Gillespie potential replacement
Alastair Cook remains Test captain, Joe Root replaces Ian Bell as vice-captain
Eoin Morgan remains ODI captain, with "more separation" between the ODI and Test sides
"We decided it was in the best short-term interests for Pietersen not to be part of the team," added Strauss.
Sounds more like a case of "keep your nose clean and we will think about it". I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he makes an appearance by the end of the summer or tours this winter.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/32703824 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/32703824)
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In my opinion having KP is better for the short term if anything
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In my opinion having KP is better for the short term if anything
especially in the one-day set-up.
One way to balance the expectation versus ECB would be to put him in the reckoning for the one-day team to see how he integrates. Now what happens if there is an injury or two?
I guess they have players like Taylor, etc. who are deserving of their place as much as anyone else. Taylor has been performing in the CC for a number of years.
It looks fairly closed to me, although the new coach may have his own ideas of who he wants.
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Oh no, leave Root out of the captaincy track/trap. The kid is going to break many records, why hamper his ability to be one of the best batsman of his generation.
ECB should groom Ben Stokes for captaincy. He has a lot of fire in his belly.
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especially in the one-day set-up.
One way to balance the expectation versus ECB would be to put him in the reckoning for the one-day team to see how he integrates. Now what happens if there is an injury or two?
I guess they have players like Taylor, etc. who are deserving of their place as much as anyone else. Taylor has been performing in the CC for a number of years.
It looks fairly closed to me, although the new coach may have his own ideas of who he wants.
Good point, what if their leading candidate for the coach job says they want KP in?
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then he wont get the job ;)
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Good point, what if their leading candidate for the coach job says they want KP in?
I'd suggest that would be the first thing they ask. Anyone who might want him they'll decline.
Although if the coach did want him in, maybe the coach will have to manage the "trust" issues on behalf of the ECB.
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To be fair, Strauss has called everything else right and he isn't ruling out a return for KP.
Pietersen will not be selected in "short-term"
Moores "had tactics and strategy limitations" - Jason Gillespie potential replacement
Alastair Cook remains Test captain, Joe Root replaces Ian Bell as vice-captain
Eoin Morgan remains ODI captain, with "more separation" between the ODI and Test sides
"We decided it was in the best short-term interests for Pietersen not to be part of the team," added Strauss.
Sounds more like a case of "keep your nose clean and we will think about it". I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he makes an appearance by the end of the summer or tours this winter.
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/32703824[/url] ([url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/32703824[/url])
agree with that, personally im not sure why Strauss is getting it in the neck so much when the attention should be on Graves and his comments which have caused this latest situation, plus he is in full agreement now with the decision made too? focus on that and not Strauss for having to make the decision I say.
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"Kevin and I have trust issues"
Wouldn't put it past Straussy taking the job just so he could squeeze kevin out. Spiteful man
Want to genuinely rebuild trust? Why not get him into the one day team? He has no issues with any of the oneday players? (Broad and anderson shouldn't polish the boots of one day players let alone be in the team)
Cut your nose off to spite your face.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevinpietersen/11600032/Kevin-Pietersen-turned-down-advisory-role-in-same-meeting-I-froze-him-out-of-England-says-Andrew-Strauss.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevinpietersen/11600032/Kevin-Pietersen-turned-down-advisory-role-in-same-meeting-I-froze-him-out-of-England-says-Andrew-Strauss.html)
Listen to the end of the video - Strauss indicated it was not his position personally but that of the ECB. I wonder who?
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agree with that, personally im not sure why Strauss is getting it in the neck so much when the attention should be on Graves and his comments which have caused this latest situation, plus he is in full agreement now with the decision made too? focus on that and not Strauss for having to make the decision I say.
What comments did Graves say? Saying KP's door is not closed?
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for me Strauss (the ECB) really has backed himself into a corner here - if this is the way he wanted to go with Pieterson there really was better ways of saying this!
by coming out and saying that a) Pieterson isn't going to be part of England's plans this summer and b) he (Strauss) is going to be part of selection for this summer - this leads to finding a top quality coach to take England forwards very very difficult indeed - because the 1st question in the interview automatically has to be do you want Pieterson to play, if the answer is Yes then jog on son! so this could rule out the likes of Gillespie, Kirsten, Moody etc...
Gillespie said this in an interview a while back about Pieterson -
“It got messy and that has been disappointing,” Gillespie said of the last 18 months of Pietersen’s career. “I don’t know KP well at all but I respected him as an opponent. When he faced us in 2005 he took the fight to us bowlers. I’d never experienced that before from an England cricketer, with the exception of Michael Vaughan in 2002-03.”
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Love Sanga's tweet
Kumar Sangakkara @KumarSanga2
"I don't trust @KP24 enough for him to play for England but I trust him enough to advise me on ODI cricket" #strausslogic .
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WTF is "trust" supposed to mean? This is just cricket for crying out loud. The only "trust" you need is for the ECB to believe that KP will go out, try his best, and score a lot of runs ... which he most obviously will.
Pretty shameful - is this the ECB, or PCB?
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This made my morning :)
https://youtu.be/fNexLoG19rg
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WTF is "trust" supposed to mean? This is just cricket for crying out loud. The only "trust" you need is for the ECB to believe that KP will go out, try his best, and score a lot of runs ... which he most obviously will.
Pretty shameful - is this the ECB, or PCB?
But it is not just cricket though.
It is peoples professional career, their livelihood, their life. If what Pietersen had done at any regular everyday employer, he'd probably have lost his job there too.
Without knowing the "trust" issues, it is always going to be speculation. Perhaps the fact that Strauss thinks he KP was sending texts to SA still sits in his mind. Undermining the captain and all that. I'm fairly certain if I had admitted calling my names rude names by text then I would have been sacked where I work.
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But it is not just cricket though.
It is peoples professional career, their livelihood, their life. If what Pietersen had done at any regular everyday employer, he'd probably have lost his job there too.
Without knowing the "trust" issues, it is always going to be speculation. Perhaps the fact that Strauss thinks he KP was sending texts to SA still sits in his mind. Undermining the captain and all that. I'm fairly certain if I had admitted calling my names rude names by text then I would have been sacked where I work.
It is just cricket.
Don't draw parallels to everyday life and work.
I don't see you sledging folk at work?
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There are two points of this debacle that I find astonishing.
Firstly, the embarrassingly poor way that the ecb have dealt with English cricket in the recent past, but more amazing, in my opinion, is the amount of people who think this absolute bell-end of a person should be allowed to play for our country again.
I've been fortunate to have played team sports for the best part of forty years now, and without doubt the biggest contribution to lack of success during this period hasn't been that the team wasn't good enough, it has been down to the disruptive attitude of individuals within the team.
I'd love to hear Alex Fergusons thoughts on the subject.
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There are two points of this debacle that I find astonishing.
Firstly, the embarrassingly poor way that the ecb have dealt with English cricket in the recent past, but more amazing, in my opinion, is the amount of people who think this absolute bell-end of a person should be allowed to play for our country again.
I've been fortunate to have played team sports for the best part of forty years now, and without doubt the biggest contribution to lack of success during this period hasn't been that the team wasn't good enough, it has been down to the disruptive attitude of individuals within the team.
I'd love to hear Alex Fergusons thoughts on the subject.
No team sport is less of a team sport than cricket. No one bowls to a teammate. No one hits it to a teammate. An individual sport in a team. Linekar said that this morning. Couldn't agree with him more, when people say kevin only plays for his average... Hold on a minute, who benefits if his average is good? The team he's playing for? You might need to explain that to me, you have after all been playing the game for 40 years.
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No team sport is less of a team sport than cricket. No one bowls to a teammate. No one hits it to a teammate. An individual sport in a team. Linekar said that this morning. Couldn't agree with him more, when people say kevin only plays for his average... Hold on a minute, who benefits if his average is good? The team he's playing for? You might need to explain that to me, you have after all been playing the game for 40 years.
Not sure I agree with this - whilst there isn't much interaction within the team in the act of bowling/batting, in no other sport do you have to spend from 9am-6pm for 5 days straight playing with your teammates towards a single goal. As such, team morale and unity is of great importance. Obviously this doesn't apply to T20s in nearly the same way.
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No team sport is less of a team sport than cricket. No one bowls to a teammate. No one hits it to a teammate. An individual sport in a team. Linekar said that this morning. Couldn't agree with him more, when people say kevin only plays for his average... Hold on a minute, who benefits if his average is good? The team he's playing for? You might need to explain that to me, you have after all been playing the game for 40 years.
The guy could average 80 at test cricket, its not going to hold much weight if the other ten players cant stand to be in the same post code as him.
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KP refused to stay in the same hotel as others on te last ashes tour.
all I known is it time to rebuild for me it time for Root (who would have thought I would say this) to skipper and move on it dragging on.
Two things spring to mind
Te incompetence of the Ecb at the highest level to manage a person and also KP for being a idiot.
Sorry mess hopefully we can all move on and yes it is us fans who have been ripped off at the end of the day by it all KP and the ECB can jog on
@procricket B3 , can you share any more on this part?.
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The guy could average 80 at test cricket, its not going to hold much weight if the other ten players cant stand to be in the same post code as him.
By 10 you mean 3 and by 3 you mean a very replaceable cook and 2 bowlers.
If the ecb harm English crickets chances because 2 guys don't like Pietersen, doesn't that say more about those two players than Pietersen.
And they said KP had an ego!
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By 10 you mean 3 and by 3 you mean a very replaceable cook and 2 bowlers.
If the ecb harm English crickets chances because 2 guys don't like Pietersen, doesn't that say more about those two players than Pietersen.
And they said KP had an ego!
I'm starting to feel like you are pulling my leg here?.
I take it you know who Pietersen is?.
He's the obnoxious tw@t that you see on Sky Sports desperately trying to come across as an acceptable human being but failing miserably.
Nobody likes him, the fact that the only two friends he seems to have are Shane Warne and Piers Morgan, speaks volumes, what a trio, comedy gold.
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I'm starting to feel like you are pulling my leg here?.
I take it you know who Pietersen is?.
He's the obnoxious tw@t that you see on Sky Sports desperately trying to come across as an acceptable human being but failing miserably.
Nobody likes him, the fact that the only two friends he seems to have are Shane Warne and Piers Morgan, speaks volumes, what a trio, comedy gold.
So personal, so much bitterness.
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By 10 you mean 3 and by 3 you mean a very replaceable cook and 2 bowlers.
If the ecb harm English crickets chances because 2 guys don't like Pietersen, doesn't that say more about those two players than Pietersen.
And they said KP had an ego!
Oh yeah I forgot the very replaceable COOK who averaging I think around 65 last 10 tests and also all them runs and a very good average over a number of years and a world leading opener yes forgot we got them all queing up in the county game.
Give over there two camps here I sit in either a right sad mess and oh KP has more friends include Gary Lineker by all accounts.
Couldn't care less anymore right load of tosh I just hope the lads do the buisness what if ENGLAND actually win the ashes what then !!!
ECB 1
KP 1
Fans bugger all
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So personal, so much bitterness.
Couldn't be further from the truth, this individual has no endearing qualities to be bitter towards.
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Apologies mcgill.. Got carried away today man.. Nothing personal. Agree to disagree I guess haha.
As for the cook comment, tbh I was just pissed, still support him for test cricket.
Guess that's the moral of the KP saga, don't write when you're pissed off. :-[
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevinpietersen/11600580/Kevin-Pietersen-My-fury-at-England-deceit.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevinpietersen/11600580/Kevin-Pietersen-My-fury-at-England-deceit.html)
KP's response. Dare I say I feel a little bit sorry for him? Very much his side of story and clearly causing havoc with the losing the ashes comments but another leak from the ECB 30 mins after the meeting ended and KP claims it wasn't him? Shall we have a whip round for a plumber at the ECB
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^ What a sorry mess this issue has become!
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Whether you love KP or loathe him, think this is a very articulate condemnation of the ECB...
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/874679.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/874679.html)
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It's just a load more woe is me (No Swearing Please) from someone who has had his massive ego bruised.
The only person to blame for him not playing for England is himself, unfortunately he'll never realise this.
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Whether you love KP or loathe him, think this is a very articulate condemnation of the ECB...
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/874679.html[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/874679.html[/url])
Absolutley,Andrew Miller hits the nail on the head.The KP saga has been a disaster of pr from the ECB...Strauss is taking the flak today but it must be Cook behind the scenes-Strauss seems,and i say seems,to be taking one for the team and not handing the new(ish) team a problem he knows too well.Thats his opinion of course,but somehow the whole ECB sees a problem.
The real issue in the article is how they connect with the fans.I had a great day last summer watching mcc v r of w with my mate-a huge indian fan.all told the day cost me 200 quid-yes we had a few beers.
Start there and stop the middle class image and prices.That would be a start.
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From his interview today, I really wish Nasser had gone for Strauss's job, he'dve been fantastic.
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It is just cricket.
Don't draw parallels to everyday life and work.
I don't see you sledging folk at work?
But it is more than "just cricket".
You won't see people sledging at work as that would be akin to sledging your teammates.
I see a lot of companies saying why others are so bad and themselves so great. That is sledging in the "real world".
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This is just showing that there are two sets of fans currently, those who blindly follow the ECB and those who have now seen them for what they are. Simply put, viewership is down, participation is down,, the game in England (don't really care about anywhere else) is failing.l all the pro ecb'ers can do is say 'hey, I support cook and the lads'.. Unfortunately they don't represent half the fans out there anymore..my hats the true sad state of affairs,, oh and they'll get smashed this summer to prove how poor they are (not that the pro ecb'ers will say it or he hacks will report it)
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Apologies mcgill.. Got carried away today man.. Nothing personal. Agree to disagree I guess haha.
As for the cook comment, tbh I was just pissed, still support him for test cricket.
Guess that's the moral of the KP saga, don't write when you're pissed off. :-[
No apologies needed, discussion is what forums are about.
I never sensed any malice, it was just an exchange of opinions.
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oh and they'll get smashed this summer to prove how poor they are (not that the pro ecb'ers will say it or he hacks will report it)
Not only do I agree with this but I actually hope it happens. I hope NZ and the Aussies absolutely smash the England team to bits, because its the only way anything will get done about the sorry state of the team.
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This is just showing that there are two sets of fans currently, those who blindly follow the ECB and those who have now seen them for what they are. Simply put, viewership is down, participation is down,, the game in England (don't really care about anywhere else) is failing.l all the pro ecb'ers can do is say 'hey, I support cook and the lads'.. Unfortunately they don't represent half the fans out there anymore..my hats the true sad state of affairs,, oh and they'll get smashed this summer to prove how poor they are (not that the pro ecb'ers will say it or he hacks will report it)
Err, no. I think this shows there are a lot more than two. You are basically saying if you don't think KP should be suing then you are against all cricket everywhere.
KP will not win the Ashes for England. KP will not bring viewership back up to 2005 level. KP will not bring participation back up.
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Kp for England coach :D
"Morning all, after a pretty bad day yesterday I've given it a lot of thought overnight. I'm applying for the coaching job! #StraussLogic "
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can no one on here see why the coaching role was offered yesterday? seriously?
The ECB are stuck on dodgy ground so they give him the bad news and then offer something they KNOW he will reject on the basis that could start building the 'trust' issue up
Yes it's underhand, yes they have treated him badly recently by feeding a phoney line about scoring runs for Surrey.
Now they can turn round and say, we tried to get him involved and he was not interested.Strauss knows KP is just about KP and it's just a tit bit to get some moral ground back.
that's all......this whole thing is a disaster of mis-trust,bad management and abysmal PR
BUT......England have got to move forward with the middle order they have as they are young enough to improve and created an environment of team values-yes it's a team game at the end of the day.
The ECB are now treating KP exactly as he treated them-with complete disrespect...
They have braced themselves for a social media slagging and at some point,will move on.
It's poor for the fans of KP,and the paying public, but at some point even Alex Ferguson moved on players who could not adapt to the team ethic.
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It's poor for the fans of KP,and the paying public, but at some point even Alex Ferguson moved on players who could not adapt to the team ethic.
Not a great example. Fergie moved on players who questioned him. Football is a true team game, all the parts have to work together or it falls apart. Cricket is a sport dominated by individuals. 1 batsman is up against a bowler and 10 fielders for example. In this situation you need hungry strong players willing to work at their own games. The only time team ethic comes into it is when a player isn't working hard enough. Something KP has never been accused of.
If he is going to coach the ODI side (is this the same as the advisory thing he was offered?) then good for him.
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This is all well and good, but let me take the names KP and ECB out and replay what has happened here. In the case below I reckon you'd have all sorts of discrimination and constructive dismissal claims going on.
Hi Employee No 576, we believe that you have been talking to our competitor and giving away trade secrets. That is gross misconduct and would normally result in a us sacking you. Please hand over any evidence you have of such activity.
I haven't undertaken what you have accused me of, and therefore I have no evidence to show you that I have given away trade secrets.
Hmm, okay, well we also have evidence of you being nasty about our Sales Manager, so we are going to suspend you with full pay until we have decided what to do with you.
That's not fair, but do I have a choice? Didn't think so. Well you will be losing your most productive employee while you do that, but if that's what you want to do...
Right employee no. 576, we have decided that you need to apologise to the MD for your behaviour to those it has affected, and then we'll allow you to come back to work.
Okay, I enjoy working here and I believe that I can be the best employee ever and will go down in the history books so I will accept your terms, even if I don't like them.
Fast forward 18 months....
Employee number 576, the last six months have been terrible for the firm, so we have to let you go. You are being sacked and we will never have you working for us again as it's all your fault. We don't care about your reputation and how you make our competition feel.
You guys are crazy. How do you expect to win business without me?
Number 576, that's the way it works. Goodbye.
You cretinous fools, I'll go to a tribunal. I'll go public. You'll see. I'll make you a laughing stock.
Not if we make sure that you're discredited first.
Goes to papers
A year later and the company senior management is replaced
Hi ex-employee 576, I'm the new CEO, and I've always admired the work you did for us. It would be great to have you doing that properly for us again, but I can't afford to pay you to do it yet. I understand we have an opening with a subsidiary, but we aren't able to pay you what you've been earning after you found a new job. Would you mind working for free for a little bit, demonstrating how good you are and then when I get an opening, I'll re-employ you?
Sounds good to me Mr CEO. I'd be happy to.
Fantastic.
Goes away and demonstrates emphatically how good at improving business he is
Hi ex-employee 576, I'm the new Sales Director. I'm the Sales Manager you were rude about. I'd like to have a meeting with you next week to discuss how we work with you.
Okay...
Monday meeting takes place
I'm sorry ex-employee 576, I just don't trust you, and as I don't trust you, we can't employ you in the role you did before. We wouldn't mind if you assisted the specialist sales team though.
But I've been working for your subsidiary for free and making them loads of money doing what I do best? What are you playing at?
As I said, I'm sorry, but I can't employ you for the next six months in the role you did before. You were nasty about me and I don't trust you.
You realise how much you've cost me?
As I said, I'm sorry, but I can't employ you for the next six months. You were nasty about me and I don't trust you.
Ah stuff you and your specialist sales team.
Ex-employee 576 walks away fuming
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Not only Constructive dismissal and discrimination when I first read yesterday what was happening I thought victimisation as well it's will probably all end in an out of court settlement.
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Not only Constructive dismissal and discrimination when I first read yesterday what was happening I thought victimisation as well it's will probably all end in an out of court settlement.
I hope it does. The ECB need dragging down and if English cricket needs to lose and fail to Achieve it, so be it
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Personally I don't think he should play for England again. After all that is said and gone, I think the team does have to move on. What I find disgraceful though is that KP was told to go jump through hoops to get his spot back, which he did at great financial cost to himself, only to have a gentleman's agreement redacted.
That is extremely poor form in my book.
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KP came and played a few matches for Surrey, and was no doubt paid handsomely for doing so - hardly an onerous hoop to jump through so I'm not sure why he's suddenly being depicted as some sort of martyr. I'm surprised how little stick Colin Graves has received in the whole affair as it seems to have arisen from him mouthing off about team selection, which he has no control over. Perhaps he should stick to denigrating other teams shortly before England play them?
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KP came and played a few matches for Surrey, and was no doubt paid handsomely for doing so - hardly an onerous hoop to jump through so I'm not sure why he's suddenly being depicted as some sort of martyr.
Wrong - Surrey couldn't afford to pay him much and it all went to charity. He has played for free.
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He played for free apart from asking a donation be made to his charity didn't he?
Edit ^ beat me to it :)
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KP came and played a few matches for Surrey, and was no doubt paid handsomely for doing so - hardly an onerous hoop to jump through so I'm not sure why he's suddenly being depicted as some sort of martyr. I'm surprised how little stick Colin Graves has received in the whole affair as it seems to have arisen from him mouthing off about team selection, which he has no control over. Perhaps he should stick to denigrating other teams shortly before England play them?
Good point, Graves should of said nothing..but having said something he should either of told Strauss and Harrison that's his view, KP is availalble so everyone who has to manage him-GET ON WITH IT
or....retracted his apparent converations with KP and said a VERY BIG sorry......for leading him up a dead end path.
Strauss says all 3 are agreed about KP....whether that's true or it's not true.If it's true Graves has done a U Turn of large propotions.If it's not true Strauss is lying.
It's a right dogs dinner.
There's a huge amount of faith lost in the last 18 months and loads of work to do to get fans back on side.
KP is now history and the game moves on from this bloodshed.Time to focus on the players we have got.
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I didn't know that - fair play to KP for donating his pay to charity. Still, I can't say that I feel massive sympathy for him for having to play a few first class matches, it's hardly a Herculean labour, eh?
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Time to focus on the players we have got.
and so the ECB win and get exactly what they want. Why let them off so easily?? Why reward their thinking/acting and general management by letting them off the hook?
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I didn't know that - fair play to KP for donating his pay to charity. Still, I can't say that I feel massive sympathy for him for having to play a few first class matches, it's hardly a Herculean labour, eh?
No it's not to you or I, but he gave up an IPL contract worth £250k to him so I'd imagine it was a pretty hefty blow to take pal. I'm sure if you've got a spare Quarter mill lying around you could buy a couple of appearances for one of the lesser county sides.
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. I'm sure if you've got a spare Quarter mill lying around you could buy a couple of appearances for one of the lesser county sides.
I wonder how much it'd cost to play a full seasons LVCC for say Derbyshire or Leicestershire. Both aweful counties so it's not like it'd make much difference
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and so the ECB win and get exactly what they want. Why let them off so easily?? Why reward their thinking/acting and general management by letting them off the hook?
but that is from a viewpoint KP is in the right and has been in the right all along? there's no doubt it's been handled badly by the ECB, but do you really think KP is so wronged after all that has gone on?
I respect your opinion but who says he has an automatic right to play for England? since when has any player had that?
The ECB are a shambles,there's no doubt about that....and they are on dodgy ground not selecting any player on the grounds he is a !!!!.
Look at it from their point of view just for a minuite......they think he a bad influence,a toxic devisive individual who doesn't give a stuff about the team.England want to build a team and want that structure-right or wrong that's what they want.
If they come out and slag KP off they will be sued out of sight, so Strauss fronts up and takes the hit for what is(if true) a decision OF THE ECB.all of them together.
They want rid of KP same as notts did, same as Hampshire did, same as lots of others, currently except Surrey.
How do they do it?
KP has no right to be picked,England can pick who they want.We all pick the team over a pint after a match, but we don't have any influence, it's not as if we can vote them out is it? :)
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I wonder how much it'd cost to play a full seasons LVCC for say Derbyshire or Leicestershire. Both aweful counties so it's not like it'd make much difference
Would suggest Northamptonshire, they're skint!
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Would suggest Northamptonshire, they're skint!
250k should get you a full season surely??
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No it's not to you or I, but he gave up an IPL contract worth £250k to him so I'd imagine it was a pretty hefty blow to take pal. I'm sure if you've got a spare Quarter mill lying around you could buy a couple of appearances for one of the lesser county sides.
Financially I don't really think KP has a huge right to complain. He made a mint out of his autobiography roundly slagging off pretty much everyone in the England set up, so if he's been left out of pocket for playing a few ultimately fruitless games for Surrey then it's swings and roundabouts. Think of it as karma.
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Financially I don't really think KP has a huge right to complain. He made a mint out of his autobiography roundly slagging off pretty much everyone in the England set up, so if he's been left out of pocket for playing a few ultimately fruitless games for Surrey then it's swings and roundabouts. Think of it as karma.
spot on.
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I will be cheering on NZ and Aus this summer.
ECB certainly know how to piss off the fans ( the same fans they hope will pay the ticket prices!!!).
ECB have let KP down for years due to poor man management. look at what Aussies are saying on twitter. or even Big Freddie (national hero) Flintoff. Not every player is a goody goody two shoes. The BEST players have an ego about them. You need to have that to get to the very top.
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Financially I don't really think KP has a huge right to complain. He made a mint out of his autobiography roundly slagging off pretty much everyone in the England set up, so if he's been left out of pocket for playing a few ultimately fruitless games for Surrey then it's swings and roundabouts. Think of it as karma.
You reckon £250k is nothing to someone on KP's wages? Don't forget that a shelf life of a sportsman is pretty short, his earning capacity is going to be in a very sharp decline very soon. I doubt there are any professional cricketers that wouldn't bat an eye lid at £250k disappearing from their yearly earnings. It is exceptionally poor form from the ECB in my opinion. He was made an offer which was verified with two further conversations with Graves, he followed the orders to the letter and then had it redacted without so much as an apology.
Again I reiterate that the whole sorry mess is KP's fault anyway and I don't think he should have been allowed back after the first time, but he was made an offer by a well respected Yorkshireman and it turns out he has been lied to, meanwhile the ECB peddle (No Swearing Please) about 'trust issues'. The whole organisation stinks from the top down. Look at the way Cook was dumped as ODI skipper in the media before he was told and look at how Moores was dumped in the media before he was told. It's utterly pathetic and we are rightfully a laughing stock of the whole cricketing world right now.
I had big hopes for Strauss and Graves as straight talking, no nonsense get us back to the right path by the shortest possible route type blokes. Instead it appears we have more of the same middle management types who appear hell bent on damaging and destroying the game.
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You reckon £250k is nothing to someone on KP's wages? Don't forget that a shelf life of a sportsman is pretty short, his earning capacity is going to be in a very sharp decline very soon. I doubt there are any professional cricketers that wouldn't bat an eye lid at £250k disappearing from their yearly earnings. It is exceptionally poor form from the ECB in my opinion. He was made an offer which was verified with two further conversations with Graves, he followed the orders to the letter and then had it redacted without so much as an apology.
Again I reiterate that the whole sorry mess is KP's fault anyway and I don't think he should have been allowed back after the first time, but he was made an offer by a well respected Yorkshireman and it turns out he has been lied to, meanwhile the ECB peddle (No Swearing Please) about 'trust issues'. The whole organisation stinks from the top down. Look at the way Cook was dumped as ODI skipper in the media before he was told and look at how Moores was dumped in the media before he was told. It's utterly pathetic and we are rightfully a laughing stock of the whole cricketing world right now.
I had big hopes for Strauss and Graves as straight talking, no nonsense get us back to the right path by the shortest possible route type blokes. Instead it appears we have more of the same middle management types who appear hell bent on damaging and destroying the game.
We could conjecture all day about KP's finances and still not be any the wiser as to how much money he might or might not have. Personally, I can't picture him being that broke regardless of what the ECB does as he has years of lucrative IPL and media appearances in front of him.
Anyway, I certainly don't disagree that the handling of the affair by the ECB in general and Colin Graves in particular has been pretty farcical, I just have an issue with KP being endlessly portrayed as a poor helpless victim in the process.
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Some of you might have seen it but is funny - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNexLoG19rg&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNexLoG19rg&feature=youtu.be)
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Bit irrelevant overall but wasn't his IPL contact 200 lakh which would make it just under £200k?
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Bit irrelevant overall but wasn't his IPL contact 200 lakh which would make it just under £200k?
Yep i thought i was around £200k. perhaps playing and being out there would lead to a few endorsments etc that would raise the money
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Yep i thought i was around £200k. perhaps playing and being out there would lead to a few endorsments etc that would raise the money
Plus the fact he is flying out on Friday for the rest of the tournament so will get a %age of that.
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As I see it it KP was never wanted back in the test team he was led to believe if he played county cricket and scored runs the door back to the test side was open in the hope that he would say no to county cricket or if he played he would fail to score runs that way it could be said he had been given an opportunity but failed to take it.But because KP ceased his opportunity and scored runs.
They needed to change tactics before the call they knew would come to include him hence the lack of trust statement
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This trust thing is a load of rubbish, I suspect the real issue is cook. Strauss appears to be a pragmatist to me, I suspect Cook has refused to play with KP, so left Strauss to chose, hence Strauss asking KP to be involved in the ODI set up, where Cook will never play. If Strauss had based his decisions on personal feelings he wouldn't have asked KP to be involved at all. Cooks at the root of this imho.
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As I see it it KP was never wanted back in the test team he was led to believe if he played county cricket and scored runs the door back to the test side was open in the hope that he would say no to county cricket or if he played he would fail to score runs that way it could be said he had been given an opportunity but failed to take it.But because KP ceased his opportunity and scored runs.
They needed to change tactics before the call they knew would come to include him hence the lack of trust statement
im sure you're right.It's been a game of bluff and double bluff and totally free of any morals on both sides.As with most things, if you don't sort it out and leave it, it festers into a much larger problem, people start telling lies(the ecb recently) and with todays media around every corner everything and every sentence gets magnified.Everyone has an opinion and it's 'good' media-for those in the media.
Don't know if anyone else has seen Gowers article today, not a hatchet job on Cook, but very much implied it's down to Cook that the issue is this big,and he should of been more proactive sorting it out.
He doesn't say it but looks like Gower's issue is not just telling KP, look your not playing in my side we are moving forward and that is that...
For those that remember this may mirror Gower's own exile from the England side under Gooch. Gower wouldn't change his attitude to training/nets,etc and it most certainly cost him 2 years of his career for England.
History repeating itself a bit maybe......except Gower never canned his team mates and any issues,and i'm sure there were back then,were sorted out in the dressing room.
Todays multi media may suit Kevin Pieterson who uses it well but it doesn't gel with a team dressing room-whether it's 1984 or 2004.
Just my opinion.....
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This trust thing is a load of rubbish, I suspect the real issue is cook. Strauss appears to be a pragmatist to me, I suspect Cook has refused to play with KP, so left Strauss to chose, hence Strauss asking KP to be involved in the ODI set up, where Cook will never play. If Strauss had based his decisions on personal feelings he wouldn't have asked KP to be involved at all. Cooks at the root of this imho.
I think you are very right there.....the personality thing between Strauss and KP is a red herring the press have latched onto to and want to make a story of it
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surrey are 170-1 off 13 overs - KP innings not looking so hot now haha
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im sure you're right.It's been a game of bluff and double bluff and totally free of any morals on both sides.As with most things, if you don't sort it out and leave it, it festers into a much larger problem, people start telling lies(the ecb recently) and with todays media around every corner everything and every sentence gets magnified.Everyone has an opinion and it's 'good' media-for those in the media.
Don't know if anyone else has seen Gowers article today, not a hatchet job on Cook, but very much implied it's down to Cook that the issue is this big,and he should of been more proactive sorting it out.
He doesn't say it but looks like Gower's issue is not just telling KP, look your not playing in my side we are moving forward and that is that...
For those that remember this may mirror Gower's own exile from the England side under Gooch. Gower wouldn't change his attitude to training/nets,etc and it most certainly cost him 2 years of his career for England.
History repeating itself a bit maybe......except Gower never canned his team mates and any issues,and i'm sure there were back then,were sorted out in the dressing room.
Todays multi media may suit Kevin Pieterson who uses it well but it doesn't gel with a team dressing room-whether it's 1984 or 2004.
Just my opinion.....
Yes I remember Gowers exile well and the public outcry that followed it.
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Just heard that Kp is out of the ipl due to injury.
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Some of the papers reporting cook threatened to quit if KP was picked. Either him or kp. Cook will probably be out of a job at the end of the summer anyway. Getting pretty tired of cook's threats and his comments after the World Cup and the recent West Indies tour.
Looks like graves has been gagged by the ecb and is probably at the ecb's Press training course.
This pretty much sums up the ecb (England's cowardly buffoons) well:
https://mobile.twitter.com/suttonnick/status/598604772481093632/photo/1
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just seen the papers myself..
Can people seriously support the ECB, Team ECB and Cook after this??? Yet another example of incompetence and Cook being the saviour (even though he's in terrible form adn will get obliterated vs NZ and AUS)
We need Graves out, Strauss, Harrisson, Whittikar, Cook, and anyone else associated with this mob
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Some of the papers reporting cook threatened to quit if KP was picked. Either him or kp.
How is that any different to KPs "it's him or me" stipulation that cost him the captaincy and Moores his job the first time round...
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How is that any different to KPs "it's him or me" stipulation that cost him the captaincy and Moores his job the first time round...
It's different because that wasn't what happened the first time round?
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just seen the papers myself..
Can people seriously support the ECB, Team ECB and Cook after this??? Yet another example of incompetence and Cook being the saviour (even though he's in terrible form adn will get obliterated vs NZ and AUS)
We need Graves out, Strauss, Harrisson, Whittikar, Cook, and anyone else associated with this mob
Basically you want everyone out unless they specifically want KP to play and will get him in.
Get KP in, let him ay international cricket for another 6-12 months, let him average 30, still lose the Ashes. Still probably lose to New Zealand. Then he can retire quoting his dodgy knee or something, giving himself a couple of years selling himself at T20.
Then start rebuilding again and being even worse off than we are now?
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It's different because that wasn't what happened the first time round?
what happened the first time round when both Moores and KP were removed?
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It's different because that wasn't what happened the first time round?
Wasn't it reported that kp rang the head of selectore from a South Afican beach and said somthing like its Moores or me.
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Wasn't it reported that kp rang the head of selectore from a South Afican beach and said somthing like its Moores or me.
he said he couldn't work with him and it's him or me make a decision.He also tried to remove Flower from the coaching staff.The ECB thought at the time the best thing was to remove both so the pair of them got sacked.
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Anyone hear ian bells comments on KP?
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Anyone hear ian bells comments on KP?
No, what were they?
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Basically you want everyone out unless they specifically want KP to play and will get him in.
Get KP in, let him ay international cricket for another 6-12 months, let him average 30, still lose the Ashes. Still probably lose to New Zealand. Then he can retire quoting his dodgy knee or something, giving himself a couple of years selling himself at T20.
Then start rebuilding again and being even worse off than we are now?
Nope, I want the guys out who are past it, haven't performed well enough for a long time and have shown themselves to not be good for English cricket.,cook has been in poor form (still is), broad too, Jordan isn't good enough currently,me either is Ali... Get them out and give others a go. Stop propping up has been a whose ego is now so large they can attack their boss in public and give ultimatums and get away with it.
I want those who are tearing English cricket out,mid that means giving KP a run to either score runs or fail and finally put it all to bed BUT at the same time unite the fans and get them behind the team again..seems a no brainier to me. Just blindly saying 'time to move on' and hoping the sheep follow isn't and shouldn't be good enough for people.
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English fans and press are the most fickle going, world champs one day, not worth feeding the next. Aussies went through a rough trot with selections and management, never once did I think about not supporting the team.
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No, what were they?
He should be given a chance to win his place back.
One of the best players I've played with, English cricket is worse off without him.
But also that English team shouldn't think about it and get on with the job in hand.
Quote of the day probably from Nasser Hussain "personally don't think we are good enough to be making ANYONE unavailable for England"
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English fans and press are the most fickle going, world champs one day, not worth feeding the next. Aussies went through a rough trot with selections and management, never once did I think about not supporting the team.
some are,most are not fickle.People hear the social media first, those not on social media are not hear these days so much.
The fans can do nothing about the press
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some are,most are not fickle.People hear the social media first, those not on social media are not hear these days so much.
The fans can do nothing about the press
No one knows what the silent majority think or want though, that's the problem. Most assume they are 'happy' as it is BUT maybe they just accept they can't do anything and just turn the tv off and walk away from teh sport? (participation and viewer figures support this). Maybe they think the ECB is right however and will flock back to viewing and playing the game. Only time will tell
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No one knows what the silent majority think or want though, that's the problem. Most assume they are 'happy' as it is BUT maybe they just accept they can't do anything and just turn the tv off and walk away from teh sport? (participation and viewer figures support this). Maybe they think the ECB is right however and will flock back to viewing and playing the game. Only time will tell
As far as viewing figures go i'm 100 per cent convinced the reason participation and people actually watching cricket has dropped off the side of a cliff is the because the ECB and Giles Clarke took sky's money, got into bed with a crook(Stanford) and sold down the river the future of the game by starving FTA television of the right to show cricket. :) :)
For that, I blame totally the English cricket board, and it's an absolute disgrace.
You and I might be in agreement on that one!!!
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ECB missed a trick. They could've selected KP in the squad then used the "he's not playing well in the nets" as an excuse not to pick him. Make him carry out the drinks then
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Some nicely barbed satire about the whole sorry affair...
http://www.espncricinfo.com/blogs/content/story/875375.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/blogs/content/story/875375.html)
"It is not inconceivable that, by late July, Strauss will once again be describing KP as a Cricketer of Unbelievable Natural Talent, as he did last summer in the commentary box, albeit in the form of an acronym" really made me giggle.
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ECB missed a trick. They could've selected KP in the squad then used the "he's not playing well in the nets" as an excuse not to pick him. Make him carry out the drinks then
But then he would be in the dressing room....
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Everyone should know that when you are being slated by Kumar Sangakkara.. you are 100% wrong. He is a legend and a gentleman of the game
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interesting little stat
'Sixthly, beware "throwing around statistics". Pietersen averaged 33.3 in 14 Tests after his Mumbai masterpiece in late 2012. Cook also averages 33.3, in 20 matches since the start of the 2013 Ashes. Bell averages 32.9 in 15 Tests since the beginning of the 2013-14 series in Australia. Some statistics are boomerangs.'
Shows up the ECB's stance on keeping Cook in the job really
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I have to say whilst personally I think England should move forward-yes that phrase again sorry......that's my view anyway
It's worth reading the interview with Ian Bell today on line in the Telegraph as was pointed out by another poster earlier on here...
I think we know(or think we know) that dressing room is split into those that like KP and those that hate him.
Bell has been very honest and it's probably better FOR THE ECB if he had said nothing at all.....but clearly he wanted to say something.....so he has
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Just to note a couple of things.
1. KP is an owner of Ian Bell's management company.
2. Andrew Strauss and Ali Cook have the same management company.
humm stupid games at play here.
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interesting little stat
'Sixthly, beware "throwing around statistics". Pietersen averaged 33.3 in 14 Tests after his Mumbai masterpiece in late 2012. Cook also averages 33.3, in 20 matches since the start of the 2013 Ashes. Bell averages 32.9 in 15 Tests since the beginning of the 2013-14 series in Australia. Some statistics are boomerangs.'
Shows up the ECB's stance on keeping Cook in the job really
What Cook average in last 10 tests mate !!!
Ps I not intrested I the ECB or KP
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What Cook average in last 10 tests mate !!!
Ps I not intrested I the ECB or KP
taking into account who it was against.. not really good enough. Move it back to a point when he was playing decent opposition who can actually bowl to a plan
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What Cook average in last 10 tests mate !!!
Ps I not intrested I the ECB or KP
but yes, I believe we are poles apart with our support of cook/ecb and wanting them to truly answer for their failings
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Anybody got any stats on Bell when KP has been batting at 4 and Bell at 5?. My theory is KP is a lightening rod for the oppo and Bell's life get's alot easier when the heat isn't on him. For me Root ought to move up to 4 and Bell drop down to 5, I think Bell is a reluctant test match 4 at best.
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taking into account who it was against.. not really good enough. Move it back to a point when he was playing decent opposition who can actually bowl to a plan
Ok move it through his career then he is good enough as a batsman more than
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http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/may/13/kevin-pietersen-public-opinion-trust-ecb (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/may/13/kevin-pietersen-public-opinion-trust-ecb)
A decent read...
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Anybody got any stats on Bell when KP has been batting at 4 and Bell at 5?. My theory is KP is a lightening rod for the oppo and Bell's life get's alot easier when the heat isn't on him. For me Root ought to move up to 4 and Bell drop down to 5, I think Bell is a reluctant test match 4 at best.
Not specifically with KP, but he averages 49 at 5 and 58 at 6.
He averages 37 at 4.
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Nick hoult article in the telegraph on line.
Worth a read-always good to get to the truth.
Article on line now for kp and non kp supporters!
Straussy has taken a few bullets in the crossfire it seems!!! :)
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Nick hoult article in the telegraph on line.
Worth a read-always good to get to the truth.
Article on line now for kp and non kp supporters!
Straussy has taken a few bullets in the crossfire it seems!!! :)
It is a good read, here's the link - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevinpietersen/11606944/England-door-still-open-for-Kevin-Pietersen.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevinpietersen/11606944/England-door-still-open-for-Kevin-Pietersen.html)
It will no doubt fuel the campaign against Cook and wishing him a run of poor scores and losses to get him out asap. Can't help thinking that's a bit like drinking poison and expecting someone else to die - surely you get behind your nation's team no matter what?
I'm glad the personal abuse targeted at Cook's family has come to light. I knew about this - my wife's friend's husband (keep up!) went to school with Cook and is a lifelong friend of his. He said that the content of that abuse was sickening and horrible. You only have to see some of the abuse some people get on Twitter to have an idea.
I think it also puts Cook's attitude towards KP in another context. It's one thing getting abuse yourself. But imagine what it's like for your family to receive death threats and of threats of personal and sexual abuse? KP and Piers Morgan are on Twitter by the hour and would have been fully aware of these tweets being sent en masse. Not once did they come out and ask the Twitterati to stop abusing Cook's family. Not once did they show contrition towards Cook and his family, publicly or privately.
Cook chose not to report the Tweets or go public with the abuse that was targeted at his family. I can't help feeling if it were the other way around that KP and his pitbull Morgan would have been re-tweeting everything to gain favour with the public - gaining total martyrdom. Why didn't Cook report them if this happened? Perhaps he's putting the team first rather than his own personal interests.
We can argue about stats, age, fitness, team ethics and values, respect, trust all day long - 12 pages on one thread prove that. But knowing this, I can totally understand why Cook wouldn't want to share a dressing room with a man who stood by and allowed personal attacks on his family to go unchecked.
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those that use social media can never win again those who don't
anyone can essentially say anything about another person with little or no comeback it seems, Twitter is rife with all sorts of vile stuff.
Piers Morgan got personal a long time ago and it's a war or words he will always win
hopefully he is not seen as the face of England supporters globally!
Anyone who has watched Cook over the last couple of months would not be surprised if he threw the towel in anyway, whatever anyone thinks about him or his form, it's got to be wearing him out.
We have 14 test matches crammed in to a short space of time coming up-if I was Strauss I may be thinking of taking him out of the firing line
Which creates another problem/solution(depending on which camp you are in) as it could be a way back for Pieterson.
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It is a good read, here's the link - [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevinpietersen/11606944/England-door-still-open-for-Kevin-Pietersen.html[/url] ([url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevinpietersen/11606944/England-door-still-open-for-Kevin-Pietersen.html[/url])
It will no doubt fuel the campaign against Cook and wishing him a run of poor scores and losses to get him out asap. Can't help thinking that's a bit like drinking poison and expecting someone else to die - surely you get behind your nation's team no matter what?
No, you don't just support blindly. Otherwise you are exploited (think what the ECB do and what football clubs are doing !) and as shown, by strauss's actions (as well as the ECB previously) they lie and do not tell the truth.. Cook is not this team man the ECB have promoted and this yet again demonstrates it. Unfortunately, he public is now so split over it all he will be sacked by the end of 2015 at the very least. Unfortunately, he may have cost England fans the chance to see one of its best ever batsmen purely because of his ego.
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Fairweather fan is a term that comes to mind with you pc1982
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No, you don't just support blindly. Otherwise you are exploited (think what the ECB do and what football clubs are doing !) and as shown, by strauss's actions (as well as the ECB previously) they lie and do not tell the truth.. Cook is not this team man the ECB have promoted and this yet again demonstrates it. Unfortunately, he public is now so split over it all he will be sacked by the end of 2015 at the very least. Unfortunately, he may have cost England fans the chance to see one of its best ever batsmen purely because of his ego.
Are you exploited if you are aware of the bias and slant that organisations consistently put on press releases, etc. yet by choosing to read many differing opinions on the same subject you arrive at your own conclusions? Take the election as an example - so many of my Facebook friends simply regurgitate biased press articles as fact. Last I checked evidence wasn't given in a court of law along the lines of "we submit Daily Mail article of 1st May 2015 as evidence of..."! I would much rather consider both sides of an argument (as I have done here) and reach my own conclusions. I certainly don't take everything I read as being primary sourced.
I have a lot of empathy for Cook - if he had gone public over the abuse his family received does that make him more of a team man? Or was he trying to avoid heaping further distraction on the team? Truth is, I don't know. But nor does anyone else on here.
Just because you have an opinion, it doesn't make you right. In this specific case I'm coming from a privileged position of knowing that this happened. I've heard about the impact it's had on him and his family. Maybe you're a better person than me, but if my wife and children were receiving personal, targeted abuse from hundreds of people that KP and Morgan refused to condemn (by the way that's why the ECB directly referred to Morgan in a press release last year), I wouldn't want to be in the same city as him, let alone the same dressing room. Can anyone here honestly say they could rise above that?
I didn't agree with Ed Smith initially when he said on Five Live that social media is not a fair reflection of public opinion (though I did see his point re; the Election). But the more I read and hear from respected journalists and ex players (Botham included), what is becoming clear is that its a much more even split on KP than twitter/Facebook/this forum would have everyone believe.
I'll sleep easy knowing my opinion is based on balanced reading and a considered thought process and I'm not trying to make the 'evidence' fit my opinion.
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There's a lot of talk on here of the flawed integrity of Graves, Harrison, Strauss et al.
How about the flawed integrity that KP has frequently shown throughout his career?
I say it's karma - what goes around, comes around.
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http://www.thefulltoss.com/england-cricket-blog/around-the-houses/ (http://www.thefulltoss.com/england-cricket-blog/around-the-houses/)
I don't agree with the personal abuse Cook is getting. However, if he is the only person stopping England picking there best XI and let's suppose KP is in that team or thereabouts, then he shouldn't be England Captain. What he is doing is using his personal bias to hold back his team. While a captain has to be happy with his team, it should be solely on merit. If I was Strauss I would of told him to resign if he didn't want the best XI on the pitch, and that's the message I would of given the cricketing public - we pick the best XI and play cricket from now on, and Cook didn't agree with that philosophy.
I listened to the five live podcast and it's clear now why Vaughan rang up the ECB and told them no thanks after a couple of days thinking it over - he didnt feel he could do the job on those terms. He referred to the role Strauss has as a "figure head", "public face". What he meant was take the stick for others.
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There's a lot of talk on here of the flawed integrity of Graves, Harrison, Strauss et al.
How about the flawed integrity that KP has frequently shown throughout his career?
I say it's karma - what goes around, comes around.
Amen to that Cat
that rhymes! :)
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There's a lot of talk on here of the flawed integrity of Graves, Harrison, Strauss et al.
How about the flawed integrity that KP has frequently shown throughout his career?
I say it's karma - what goes around, comes around.
Spot on. It's a case that nobody emerges from with a huge amount of credit, KP included.
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It's a disaster all round. Lessons are;
1. Don't burn your bridges (ECB and KP)
2. Don't write a book until you've retired
3. Don't have a mate called Piers
4. Recognise a second chance (Cook insisting on KP's return in 2012).
5. Take that second chance
6. Take a close look at what's happened to an NGB that two years ago was the template for successful PR and public engagement. That's gone horribly wrong.
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[url]http://www.thefulltoss.com/england-cricket-blog/around-the-houses/[/url] ([url]http://www.thefulltoss.com/england-cricket-blog/around-the-houses/[/url])
I don't agree with the personal abuse Cook is getting. However, if he is the only person stopping England picking there best XI and let's suppose KP is in that team or thereabouts, then he shouldn't be England Captain. What he is doing is using his personal bias to hold back his team. While a captain has to be happy with his team, it should be solely on merit. If I was Strauss I would of told him to resign if he didn't want the best XI on the pitch, and that's the message I would of given the cricketing public - we pick the best XI and play cricket from now on, and Cook didn't agree with that philosophy.
I listened to the five live podcast and it's clear now why Vaughan rang up the ECB and told them no thanks after a couple of days thinking it over - he didnt feel he could do the job on those terms. He referred to the role Strauss has as a "figure head", "public face". What he meant was take the stick for others.
I don't disagree with you. Absolutely you should have your best team out there, but not at any cost. But by allowing KP back after so many misdemeanour's, what are you saying to the rest of the players? Stay in another hotel on tour if you like, KP did. Not getting on this flight? OK mate, no worries, just make sure you turn up for practice tomorrow...
Don't want to drive the sponsors Jag? You rock up in your ferrari mate, Jag will pull the plug for breach of contract, there's a couple of million quid gone, but don't worry, you're happy.
You gobbing off again about your team mates lack of ability in the dressing room while they're out there batting? No problem, can I get you a foot stall while you do?
You want to sit back and watch the skipper, his wife and nipper take sickening abuse, that is more likely than not affecting his form? Yeah, no worries.
It works both ways too - don't assume that no action was taken internally for the Twitter parody account abusing KP...
People like Sir Clive Woodward and Sir Dave Brailsford talk about the thousands of little improvements that amount to significant gains in sport - that's why they were so successful, nothing was left to chance. I've seen both of them do keynote speeches. The emphasis they place on team cohesion and the importance of group dynamics is massive. You start to allow little transgressions and it spreads.
I do think the ECB have thrown the baby out with the bathwater. Do what Vaughan said - parachute him in if needed for home tests. I'd consider that -no more than 7-8 days with the team, buying into the core values and ethics. There's no way I'd take him on tour though.
I know we were number one on the world and won the ashes post texts with KP. I know his book only came out after his sacking, I get that. But everything from that and since is too much. He should've done last year what he did this year. Straight to Surrey, no book, score shed loads of runs and he'd have quickened the sacking process for Downton, Cook would've had him back in, as he did in 2012, minus the book and Twitter abuse. Moores would probably still have gone. He would've been back for the World Cup...
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Well put indeed...
Sounds like the is a press conference coming from the ECB......
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ECB Chairman Colin Graves comments on the week
15 May 2015
Email this page
I would like to start my stewardship of the ECB looking forward to next week’s Investec Test series against New Zealand and the Ashes later in the summer.
But first there’s another point I want to address.
Clearly, the question of whether Kevin Pietersen will play for England again has been a debate for media and cricket fans alike.
I understand why people feel it’s important. So I’ll tell you what I said to the First Class County Chairmen, at yesterday’s AGM, and our people across the ECB this morning, on my first full day as Chairman.
In the past few days my integrity has been called into question, something I can’t accept. Throughout my business career and my years at Yorkshire, integrity has been my watchword. It governs everything I do and is an important part of what I bring to the ECB.
So it saddens me that what was a private conversation with Kevin in March has been used to do just that.
Back then, when we talked on the phone, Kevin asked if I thought his England career had ended in the right manner following the last Ashes series in Australia. I agreed that nobody particularly emerged with much credit from the whole episode, particularly given his achievements for England.
Kevin felt he had a lot to offer and was interested in a dialogue with the ECB, sorting things out and working together. He would love to play for England again but he wanted to contribute, whether as a player or not.
I didn’t make any promises. There were no guarantees that if he chose to exit his IPL contract, play County cricket and score runs he would be selected for England. And I said he should make any decision on his future on that basis.
I can see something has been misunderstood around the conversation and in the following debate - and perhaps how that happened.
What I did stress was that when I took over as chairman I would back those people whose job it was to take decisions on team selection. I stand by that.
Ahead of a big, busy summer of cricket, a clear decision needed to be taken. Given the history and the book, the simple fact is that bridges have still not been rebuilt and trust needs to be restored.
That takes time - as Andrew Strauss made clear this week.
Kevin was told on Monday and I completely support the decision that was taken. He may not have liked what he heard but it allowed him to look at his opportunities.
Despite everything, he can work with us to re-build the relationship and make a further contribution to English cricket. It was important he knew where he stood.
Of course, I would like us to move forward and concentrate on the important matter of winning cricket matches. I don’t want to add any more or go deeper into private conversations.
I want to look to the future. I’m excited by the England team that is evolving and I look forward to giving them my full support this week.
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Speaking to BBC Radio 5 live's Sportsweek programme in early March, Graves refused to rule out a recall for Pietersen but said selectors and coaches would make any final decision.
Graves later told the Telegraph that the selectors "can't ignore" Pietersen if he "scores a lot of runs" for a county side.
"Forget personalities," he added. "Selectors pick the best players in form, taking wickets and scoring runs. That is their job."
Obviously not and it's right your integrity get's called into question when the selectors clearly aren't picking on form, that's your promise in March.
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I don't disagree with you. Absolutely you should have your best team out there, but not at any cost. But by allowing KP back after so many misdemeanour's, what are you saying to the rest of the players? Stay in another hotel on tour if you like, KP did. Not getting on this flight? OK mate, no worries, just make sure you turn up for practice tomorrow...
Don't want to drive the sponsors Jag? You rock up in your ferrari mate, Jag will pull the plug for breach of contract, there's a couple of million quid gone, but don't worry, you're happy.
You gobbing off again about your team mates lack of ability in the dressing room while they're out there batting? No problem, can I get you a foot stall while you do?
You want to sit back and watch the skipper, his wife and nipper take sickening abuse, that is more likely than not affecting his form? Yeah, no worries.
It works both ways too - don't assume that no action was taken internally for the Twitter parody account abusing KP...
People like Sir Clive Woodward and Sir Dave Brailsford talk about the thousands of little improvements that amount to significant gains in sport - that's why they were so successful, nothing was left to chance. I've seen both of them do keynote speeches. The emphasis they place on team cohesion and the importance of group dynamics is massive. You start to allow little transgressions and it spreads.
I do think the ECB have thrown the baby out with the bathwater. Do what Vaughan said - parachute him in if needed for home tests. I'd consider that -no more than 7-8 days with the team, buying into the core values and ethics. There's no way I'd take him on tour though.
I know we were number one on the world and won the ashes post texts with KP. I know his book only came out after his sacking, I get that. But everything from that and since is too much. He should've done last year what he did this year. Straight to Surrey, no book, score shed loads of runs and he'd have quickened the sacking process for Downton, Cook would've had him back in, as he did in 2012, minus the book and Twitter abuse. Moores would probably still have gone. He would've been back for the World Cup...
Are these all to do with KP or are you using them as examples? Read Woodwards book, he decided one hotel in SA was so poor he booked his team into a better one on his amex. Without knowing why KP did that who is to say it was the wrong thing to do. Cricketers have never been treated as well as Footballers.
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ECB Chairman Colin Graves comments on the week
15 May 2015
Email this page
I would like to start my stewardship of the ECB looking forward to next week’s Investec Test series against New Zealand and the Ashes later in the summer.
But first there’s another point I want to address.
Clearly, the question of whether Kevin Pietersen will play for England again has been a debate for media and cricket fans alike.
I understand why people feel it’s important. So I’ll tell you what I said to the First Class County Chairmen, at yesterday’s AGM, and our people across the ECB this morning, on my first full day as Chairman.
In the past few days my integrity has been called into question, something I can’t accept. Throughout my business career and my years at Yorkshire, integrity has been my watchword. It governs everything I do and is an important part of what I bring to the ECB.
So it saddens me that what was a private conversation with Kevin in March has been used to do just that.
Back then, when we talked on the phone, Kevin asked if I thought his England career had ended in the right manner following the last Ashes series in Australia. I agreed that nobody particularly emerged with much credit from the whole episode, particularly given his achievements for England.
Kevin felt he had a lot to offer and was interested in a dialogue with the ECB, sorting things out and working together. He would love to play for England again but he wanted to contribute, whether as a player or not.
I didn’t make any promises. There were no guarantees that if he chose to exit his IPL contract, play County cricket and score runs he would be selected for England. And I said he should make any decision on his future on that basis.
I can see something has been misunderstood around the conversation and in the following debate - and perhaps how that happened.
What I did stress was that when I took over as chairman I would back those people whose job it was to take decisions on team selection. I stand by that.
Ahead of a big, busy summer of cricket, a clear decision needed to be taken. Given the history and the book, the simple fact is that bridges have still not been rebuilt and trust needs to be restored.
That takes time - as Andrew Strauss made clear this week.
Kevin was told on Monday and I completely support the decision that was taken. He may not have liked what he heard but it allowed him to look at his opportunities.
Despite everything, he can work with us to re-build the relationship and make a further contribution to English cricket. It was important he knew where he stood.
Of course, I would like us to move forward and concentrate on the important matter of winning cricket matches. I don’t want to add any more or go deeper into private conversations.
I want to look to the future. I’m excited by the England team that is evolving and I look forward to giving them my full support this week.
Thanks for posting...surely everyone who reads this is thinking there's a massive mis-understanding in a phone call between 2 people,Pieterson has used bits of information and run in the wrong direction(one that suits him) or there's some huge pork pies being told?
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If KP was on his game, he would of recorded the phone call. Press really would have a field day then.
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yes but the texts to his SA mates slagging off Strauss cant be found there's no chance recording a phone call :)
he's prob got an I Phone..and I'm damned if I know how it works
slide the screen to answer and that's about it!!
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Speaking to BBC Radio 5 live's Sportsweek programme in early March, Graves refused to rule out a recall for Pietersen but said selectors and coaches would make any final decision.
Graves later told the Telegraph that the selectors "can't ignore" Pietersen if he "scores a lot of runs" for a county side.
"Forget personalities," he added. "Selectors pick the best players in form, taking wickets and scoring runs. That is their job."
Obviously not and it's right your integrity get's called into question when the selectors clearly aren't picking on form, that's your promise in March.
So on the one hand saying the selectors will pick on form only. Now turns around and says you can pick on other factors... U turn or what.. Simply showing yourselves up again ECB.
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Can't wait till this turns to chippy wrapper getting boring
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Agree, not the way to go when your previous comments were reported.
The ECB need to say they're not going to comment any further on anything related to KP and that they are focusing on winning two series this summer. If they choose to select him in the future, fine, but just do it.
It's been a PR disaster - they need to stop making it worse.
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you would suspect there are a lot of newspaper journos and the vast internet media checking back thru to find those quotes...
I'm sure this still has a fair way to run.
Dunno what the forum record is for pages but we might go close...
Thinking about it was probably Tailsman and his Ponzi schemes and willow 'made for/touched' by Marcus Trescothick :)
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Can't wait till this turns to chippy wrapper getting boring
Can't see it going away Dave, error after error from the ECB.
So @jamielsn15 you propose simply letting them off the hook? They've lied, been economical with the truth. I don't care less if KP plays or not, I do care that the ECB is incompetent and the same old same old people get put in charge with zero reprocussions if some people just go 'oh well, move on'
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Why hasn't Graves come out before now and reset expectations? KP has been banging on about this since Graves's comments (and way before) that he wanted to play for England again and the steps he thought he had to take. He talks about integrity but (at least to me) he hasn't come out of this very well at all.
Whoever works in PR at the ECB needs shooting, they are a mess and an embarrassment as an organisation and governing body of a professional sport at a country level. The only organisation in sport i can think that is worse is FIFA
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Nothing further to say some comment comments made by you two above this post.
As a member of HM Forces you right about team cohesion and trust.
Two things let's face facts and leave it.
1.Ecb have failed as a organisation and need to sort it out quick
2.KP is about KP he is a tit.
Win the ashes this will seem like nothing.
More players I have talked to think like Dominic Cork "bad egg"
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Dominic Cork just went up in my estimations great speech.
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Can't see it going away Dave, error after error from the ECB.
So @jamielsn15 you propose simply letting them off the hook? They've lied, been economical with the truth. I don't care less if KP plays or not, I do care that the ECB is incompetent and the same old same old people get put in charge with zero reprocussions if some people just go 'oh well, move on'
Your right they should of (No Swearing Please) the tit of much earlier and shut the door much earlier
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This is why I'm not bying into 'cricket is different as they tour so need to get on'.. I, probably like you have spent many a tour (months living innthepocket of others) you simply don't trust, dislike or generally don't get on with. You do it though as it's the job.
That's why regardless of personality, it should be your cricket ability not personality hat gets you selected or not
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Why is everone complaining about the ECB on here, if it concerns you that much (and some of you, it clearly does) why don't you email them, Tweet them, write them a letter, send them a note on a pigeon or whatever takes your fancy.
It's getting nothing done complaining about it on here and trying to start an argument over differing opinions.
And to be honest i agree with Dave, it's getting tiresome, they've made their decision and no matter how much you bitch and moan about it, it's done. I can't see Andrew Strauss or Colin Graves taking any notice over a few keyboard warriors with nothing better to do. KP is a tit and they've had enough of him.
GET OVER IT!
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Why is everone complaining about the ECB on here, if it concerns you that much (and some of you, it clearly does) why don't you email them, Tweet them, write them a letter, send them a note on a pigeon or whatever takes your fancy.
It's getting nothing done complaining about it on here and trying to start an argument over differing opinions.
And to be honest i agree with Dave, it's getting tiresome, they've made their decision and no matter how much you bitch and moan about it, it's done. I can't see Andrew Strauss or Colin Graves taking any notice over a few keyboard warriors with nothing better to do. KP is a tit and they've had enough of him.
GET OVER IT!
I'm not sure you've understood the point of a forum there mate
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massively difference a tour of duty and a cricket tour .
We have no choice thy do
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@ProCricketer1982 thanks for the heads up ;)
They should be held to account - I believe Downton and Moores have. Giles Clarke has positioned himself where he's untouchable, he's become Teflon, akin to Blatter at FIFA. Graves said something he is clearly now trying to deny. Strauss is guilty of supporting the captain.
The problem with the ECB executive selection process - and the majority of NGBs in this country - is that to really affect change and get a fully modernised system in place that will constantly work towards progressive change, you have to get those in power to vote themselves out to change the system - the whole turkeys voting for Christmas scenario.
I know that's not exactly what you're saying - you're suggesting that Cook, Strauss, Graves should be sacked for continued incompetence in handling the KP issue. Thing is, unless you are absolutely certain that KP is throwing straight dice (and Michael Vaughan has already said that Piers Morgan's version of the facts regarding meetings Morgan claims Vaughan was involved in are untrue) and telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth, you can't expect an external investigation or an ECB committee decision.
I know he's been sacked and they stay in their jobs and I agree with you that they should be accountable and their management of this has been shocking, but unless you call for a Parliamentary review, what can you do? They are in constitutional power at the ECB. They run the game. They won't resign and who knows, in the coming years they may get it right and get English cricket back to where it needs to be.
Viva La Revolution...
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@ProCricketer1982 thanks for the heads up ;)
They should be held to account - I believe Downton and Moores have. Giles Clarke has positioned himself where he's untouchable, he's become Teflon, akin to Blatter at FIFA. Graves said something he is clearly now trying to deny. Strauss is guilty of supporting the captain.
The problem with the ECB executive selection process - and the majority of NGBs in this country - is that to really affect change and get a fully modernised system in place that will constantly work towards progressive change, you have to get those in power to vote themselves out to change the system - the whole turkeys voting for Christmas scenario.
I know that's not exactly what you're saying - you're suggesting that Cook, Strauss, Graves should be sacked for continued incompetence in handling the KP issue. Thing is, unless you are absolutely certain that KP is throwing straight dice (and Michael Vaughan has already said that Piers Morgan's version of the facts regarding meetings Morgan claims Vaughan was involved in are untrue) and telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth, you can't expect an external investigation or an ECB committee decision.
I know he's been sacked and they stay in their jobs and I agree with you that they should be accountable and their management of this has been shocking, but unless you call for a Parliamentary review, what can you do? They are in constitutional power at the ECB. They run the game. They won't resign and who knows, in the coming years they may get it right and get English cricket back to where it needs to be.
Viva La Revolution...
I've said it before - the ECB should answer to somebody and it should be the people, failing that a government committee. Are they acting in the nations interests? I would say no. Moving to Sky wasn't in any cricketer lovers interests and failing to pick a team on merit isn't either. They are unaccountable at worst and at best only accountable to the county chairman who have even more hidden agendas than the ECB.
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The fact Clarke survived the whole Stanford embarrassment, tells you all you need to know about how the ECB is run.
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Ian Bell contradicted Strauss about the "trust" issue. Other players trust KP?
This drama is a distraction for the young talent ( and there is some great talent there ) that ought be the focus of the administration. Close the door on this once and for all. Why this wishy washy position.
I'm waiting for The Ashes series and I hope that it is competitive!
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Why hasn't Graves come out before now and reset expectations? KP has been banging on about this since Graves's comments (and way before) that he wanted to play for England again and the steps he thought he had to take. He talks about integrity but (at least to me) he hasn't come out of this very well at all.
Whoever works in PR at the ECB needs shooting, they are a mess and an embarrassment as an organisation and governing body of a professional sport at a country level. The only organisation in sport i can think that is worse is FIFA
Quite. I simply cannot fathom anyone defending anything England Cricket team/ECB has done in the last 2 years. It's been a Brewsters Millions-esque of innovating in new ways to disappoint the viewing public and overseeing disaster after disaster and failure after failure!