Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Latest Matches => Topic started by: alexhilly1492 on July 04, 2017, 09:40:03 AM
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Just seen on twitter apparently Dawson to play ballance to bat at 3 Roland jones the man to miss out
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That means this is the lineup?
1. Cook
2. Jennings
3. Ballance
4. Root
5. Stokes
6. Bairstow
7. Ali
8. Dawson
9. Broad
10. Wood
11. Anderson
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Hales at 5 and no Dawson if i was picking the team.
I like JB/Stokes/Ali coming in one place lower than they could... do we really need 4 seamers and 3 spinners?
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Hales at 5 and no Dawson if i was picking the team.
I like JB/Stokes/Ali coming in one place lower than they could... do we really need 4 seamers and 3 spinners?
Who's the 3rd spinner?
Probably safe with an extra bowler also with Anderson just fit again and Wood never fit for long.
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Whilst I'm looking forward to the series, is anyone still a bit underwhelmed by the team we're putting out?
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Whoever it was asking when Dawson's next Test would be following his debut in India, the answer is Thursday 6th July 2017 ;) :D
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I wonder if the order will be:
Cook
Jennings
Ballance
Root
Ali
Stokes
Bairstow
Dawson
Broad
Wood
Anderson
Mo had a good series at 5 against India but the question is whether they trust him at 5 in England, probably deserves a go there tbh.
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Who's the 3rd spinner?
Probably safe with an extra bowler also with Anderson just fit again and Wood never fit for long.
I have a horrible feeling Wood will go the way of Simon Jones.
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I have a horrible feeling Wood will go the way of Simon Jones.
But surely you are either fit to play your full part in 5 days of a test match or you aren't?
You can't select a side around whether someone might or might not pull up after 1 or 20 overs!
6 bowlers (7 if you incl Root) is just crazy - especially when you consider the weakness of this England team is the batting
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Yes I was counting Root as 3rd spinner
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Yes looking at that side we look a bit light batting wise
I know I know I know !! But like him or not rate him(i do) chris woakes i vital to england
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I wonder if the order will be:
Cook
Jennings
Ballance
Root
Ali
Stokes
Bairstow
Dawson
Broad
Wood
Anderson
Mo had a good series at 5 against India but the question is whether they trust him at 5 in England, probably deserves a go there tbh.
I cant see it myself, i cant see Ali has done enough there. Also would mean Stokes 6 and Bairstow 7, if JB bats at 7 the 6 in front of him have to be pretty decent
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Yes looking at that side we look a bit light batting wise
I know I know I know !! But like him or not rate him(i do) chris woakes i vital to england
I think anyone would struggle to disagree with that, he does balance the side out nicely
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Yes looking at that side we look a bit light batting wise
I know I know I know !! But like him or not rate him(i do) chris woakes i vital to england
isnt stokes the alroinder to balance the side,
i cant help but feel TRJ would have been a better pick than dawson, he can bat a bit too
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Yes I was counting Root as 3rd spinner
I think once you start including part timers you're always going to look bowling heavy.Root has 30 1st class wicket, Jennings has 18 in far less games, do we count his as a 5th seamer.
I agree we look bowler heavy on paper, but the strength of those bowlers with the bat allows us that luxury.
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Yes looking at that side we look a bit light batting wise
I know I know I know !! But like him or not rate him(i do) chris woakes i vital to england
interesting
Is he vital though brcause of what he brings to the team two 50 s top score 66 and one five for (6/70 ) in tests or because when hes in the team it has a more balanced look.
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I think the selection is poor. I can understand there issues, with so many allrounders in he side you've either selected a Buttler playing as a specialist batter at 7 or ur picking too many bowlers. I can understand trj not being selected. 5 seamers is too many and ensures roots's least favourte is unlikely to do much.
If they are so confused about the balance because of Ali, Bairstow and Stokes i would pick a keeper.
Lets not start the whole ridiculous Woakes thing again though. His a top player and will be around the England side for a few years, like him or not. Particularly as two of our best bowlers are getting on.
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I think once you start including part timers you're always going to look bowling heavy.Root has 30 1st class wicket, Jennings has 18 in far less games, do we count his as a 5th seamer.
I agree we look bowler heavy on paper, but the strength of those bowlers with the bat allows us that luxury.
more to the point with 3 "all rounders" in the team Bairstow/Moeen/Stokes surely that means we can pick another batsman
And a few overs here and there from Root should be ample.
It smacks of lack of faith in Ali to be the main spinner
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I'm thinking that Root doesn't think much of Ali as a spinner, and that he's pretty much going to play as a batsman.
Until he once and for all proves he's not consistent or tough enough to score regular test match runs, then we can get another batsman in. Shame they didn't just do it now, save all the time figuring out what is already obvious.
Picking Dawson seems odd, however he did perform well and they like his attitude, just yet to be convinced he's good enough for international cricket in either discipline. We could just accept that we don't have a good enough spinner and play a seam attack until one develops enough o be considered for test match cricket (Mason Crane needs another couple of seasons bowling hundreds of overs in county cricket before he's ready)
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Two hundreds in India at no.5.
Highly likely that this time next week he will have 2000 Test runs and 100 wickets.
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Two hundreds in India at no.5.
Highly likely that this time next week he will have 2000 Test runs and 100 wickets.
He's in my team every time. Still doesn't explain why we need Dawson
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Andy Flower likes him
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I'm thinking that Root doesn't think much of Ali as a spinner, and that he's pretty much going to play as a batsman.
Until he once and for all proves he's not consistent or tough enough to score regular test match runs, then we can get another batsman in. Shame they didn't just do it now, save all the time figuring out what is already obvious.
Picking Dawson seems odd, however he did perform well and they like his attitude, just yet to be convinced he's good enough for international cricket in either discipline. We could just accept that we don't have a good enough spinner and play a seam attack until one develops enough o be considered for test match cricket (Mason Crane needs another couple of seasons bowling hundreds of overs in county cricket before he's ready)
This is the only explanation for Dawson's selection that really makes sense to me - they've decided they don't fancy Moeen as a bowler (hard to argue with a test average of 42) but he scored too many runs in the winter to be dropped. Dawson gets in as a holding spinner who'll tie an end up and get good runs at 8, Moeen gets his chance to sink or swim at 5. Be interesting to see the batting order and how many overs Moeen gets, there's plenty of batsmen/Ben Foakes in the counties scoring runs and eyeing up that no5 spot if Mo gets put there and fails.
Don't have a problem with Ballance getting selected at all but I'd rather have seen him in the middle order, seems pretty clear he prefers batting there?
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Ballance may well prefer 5 it's where he gets a lot for Yorks. Bayliss wants root to bat 3, root wants 4 I reckon so gaz slots in to 3 and tells Bayliss that's where he's batting. Makes sense to me :)
Not quite the alleged almighty bust up on the ashes tour between Goochie and KP. 'The team needs you to bat 3' ...'I bat 4'
Goochie:' no....the team needs you to bat 3'. 'I'm still batting 4' !!!
But new skipper is never more powerful than right now.he likes number 4 I think.
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interesting
Is he vital though brcause of what he brings to the team two 50 s top score 66 and one five for (6/70 ) in tests or because when hes in the team it has a more balanced look.
Totally repect your opinion having seen a lot of cricket like myself. But yes...he is vital to the team, when he is fit I'd be amazed if he was not straight in...stats may not back it up true but stats never tell the whole story of a players value to the tam. Woakes does a lot of unglamorous work for the team, and I think England know it, they have backed him all the way.
He's a talented cricketer and yes @Tailendfielder has a good point...Jimmy and broad are in the last third of their career, we need Woakes who is improving.
But as I said, everyone has an opinion it's what makes cricket great talking points for us all :)
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Anyone going Sunday that wants to grab a beer?
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I think the selection is poor. I can understand there issues, with so many allrounders in he side you've either selected a Buttler playing as a specialist batter at 7 or ur picking too many bowlers. I can understand trj not being selected. 5 seamers is too many and ensures roots's least favourte is unlikely to do much.
If they are so confused about the balance because of Ali, Bairstow and Stokes i would pick a keeper.
Lets not start the whole ridiculous Woakes thing again though. His a top player and will be around the England side for a few years, like him or not. Particularly as two of our best bowlers are getting on.
How can a dicussion around Woakes be ridiculous A player with only two fifties and one five four in tests that doesnt scream top player but do agree there's a lack of seamers banging on the test match door to replace Broad and Jimmy which may lead to him being in the England team for a while.
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How can a dicussion around Woakes be ridiculous A player with only two fifties and one five four in tests that doesnt scream top player but do agree there's a lack of seamers banging on the test match door to replace Broad and Jimmy meaning he could be around for a while.
You love quoting incorrect stats about Chris Woakes! ;) Also pretty pointless - for example Keaton Jennings only has one test ton, which tells you... absolutely nothing about how good a test play he may be. Silly to complain a bloke who bats at 9 only has two fifties too. I could go on, one of England's best players in recent times.
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Not going to comment further wouldn't call him one of England's best
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Not going to comment further wouldn't call him one of England's best
Well I'll just leave this here for you, Woakes' career test stats so far (17 tests) compared to Broad's first 17 tests. You love stats, so as you'll be pleased to see here, Woakes could never be a top player ;)
(https://s9.postimg.org/ugasa5jen/woakesbroad.png)
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As Stewart Lee says, you can prove anything with facts. ;)
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Leading wicket takers in 2016...
(http://i347.photobucket.com/albums/p462/joeybones1/Mobile%20Uploads/AB0602DE-9BE3-4F2D-B8AD-056C02C706D9_zpsthwlxpfj.png) (http://s347.photobucket.com/user/joeybones1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/AB0602DE-9BE3-4F2D-B8AD-056C02C706D9_zpsthwlxpfj.png.html)
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Two hundreds in India at no.5.
Highly likely that this time next week he will have 2000 Test runs and 100 wickets.
This was my reasoning for giving him a go at 5 this summer, I'm not 100% convinced Mo is the answer at 5 and think he maybe is better suited to 7/8 but he's earned the right to have a go in my book.
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Player Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s
1 JE Root (ENG) 17 32 2 1477 254 49.23 2433 60.70 3 10 1 170 1
2 JM Bairstow (ENG) 17 29 4 1470 167* 58.80 2525 58.21 3 8 1 145 8
3 AN Cook (ENG) 17 33 3 1270 130 42.33 2447 51.90 2 7 0 151 1
4 V Kohli (INDIA) 12 18 2 1215 235 75.93 2011 60.41 4 2 0 134 2
5 Azhar Ali (PAK) 11 22 3 1198 302* 63.05 2569 46.63 3 4 2 114 5
6 SPD Smith (AUS) 11 18 3 1079 165* 71.93 1837 58.73 4 5 1 121 5
7 MM Ali (ENG) 17 29 6 1078 155* 46.86 2004 53.79 4 5 3 116 11
Mo scored over a 1000 Test runs in the calendar year with the joint highest number of 100s. I think anywhere in the middle order between 5-7 is a good place for him.
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England must have a serious embarrassment of riches if a player averaging 29 with bat and ball at no.9 is not good enough to get in the team!
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Player Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s
1 JE Root (ENG) 17 32 2 1477 254 49.23 2433 60.70 3 10 1 170 1
2 JM Bairstow (ENG) 17 29 4 1470 167* 58.80 2525 58.21 3 8 1 145 8
3 AN Cook (ENG) 17 33 3 1270 130 42.33 2447 51.90 2 7 0 151 1
4 V Kohli (INDIA) 12 18 2 1215 235 75.93 2011 60.41 4 2 0 134 2
5 Azhar Ali (PAK) 11 22 3 1198 302* 63.05 2569 46.63 3 4 2 114 5
6 SPD Smith (AUS) 11 18 3 1079 165* 71.93 1837 58.73 4 5 1 121 5
7 MM Ali (ENG) 17 29 6 1078 155* 46.86 2004 53.79 4 5 3 116 11
Mo scored over a 1000 Test runs in the calendar year with the joint highest number of 100s. I think anywhere in the middle order between 5-7 is a good place for him.
That's exactly what I was getting at, his form over the last 12 months has earned him a sustained crack at no.5
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Yep - completely with you. I just find it strange that Mo is always up for the chop despite his results and constantly changing role in the side. Proper team man, if you ask me :)
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It seems to me that the only question is WHERE to bat Bairstow and Mo!
The top 4 look set and Stokes likes to bat at 6. So that leave JB and Mo at 5 and 7. So do you bat JB at 7 as he is keeping, even though he is good enough to bat at 5, and therefore put Mo at 5?
Or do you bat JB at 5 and Mo at 7? Either way, it looks a strong middle order!
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You bat Bairstow at five - he is, put simply, light years ahead of Ali as a test batsman.
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Agree. Though I would really prefer Root at 3 and JB at 4 as a pure batter.
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So several options available!
Option 1
1. Cook
2. Jennings
3. Ballance
4. Root
5. Bairstow
6. Stokes
7. Ali
8. Dawson
9. Broad
10. Wood
11. Anderson
Option 2
1. Cook
2. Jennings
3. Ballance
4. Root
5. Ali
6. Stokes
7. Bairstow
8. Dawson
9. Broad
10. Wood
11. Anderson
Option 3
1. Cook
2. Jennings
3. Root
4. Bairstow
5. Ballance
6. Stokes
7. Ali
8. Dawson
9. Broad
10. Wood
11. Anderson
Option 3 would be my personal favourite as it look a strong order. But Option 1 would also do.
Option 2? As much as I like Ali, as everyone has said, Bairstow is quality and needs to bat in the top 5 really.
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I know it will not happen, but if all the bowlers were 100% fit, then I would love to see the following:
Option "it'll never happen"
1. Cook
2. Jennings
3. Stoneman
4. Root
5. Ballance
6. Stokes
7. Bairstow
8. Ali/Dawson
9. Broad
10. Wood/Woakes
11. Anderson
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Whilst it's not going to happen I would much prefer YJB at 3 than Ballance and let him hang down at 5. Bold move et al.
Thinking about this over the last few days and this series as a whole has brought some seriously brilliant moments; Atherton's 185*, Malcolm's 9/57, Graeme Smith's back to back double hundreds and his 154* in 2008, KPs 149 at Headingley, Hoggards 7/63, the battles between Kallis/Flintoff and Atherton/Donald etc, Amla's 311 at the Oval. Then of more recent times there's Stokes 258, Bairstow's maiden test century and Broad going absolutely mental with 6/17 and two of the best catches you'll ever see at square leg from James Taylor.
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I think the main thing is that England find a top 3 combination that gets us to 150-200 as often as possible then Root and Ballance can pick up the pace and the lower order smash it around.
Jennings has earnt his place, Root apparently wants to bat 4 and Stokes has made 6 his slot. Bairstow is a very good batsman but if he loses form it would be a no-brainer for him to drop to 7 or be positive and let him be like Gilchrist and lead a counter attack with the capable bowlers who can bat.
My team if everyone is fit (this needs to change with rotation etc):
1. Cook
2. Jennings
3. An actual number 3 from county cricket (Westley, Stoneman, others?)
4. Root
5. Ballance
6. Stokes
7. Bairstow
8. Ali (or pick another spinner in preparation for Oz)
9. Woakes (TRJ as a replacement or another bowler in the pecking order)
10. Broad (or Wood etc)
11. Anderson (or Wood etc)
I don't see the sense of relying heavily on your best players to do too much. Bairstow is the keeper. He is also a gun bat. Pick which one you want him to do and allow him to perform to his best. Having too many bowlers seems to cause more problems that it solves.
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(http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah106/alexhill11/3407815F-B60E-4A82-BBF8-12A83141591C_zpsm6xmgigd.png) (http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/alexhill11/media/3407815F-B60E-4A82-BBF8-12A83141591C_zpsm6xmgigd.png.html)
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([url]http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah106/alexhill11/3407815F-B60E-4A82-BBF8-12A83141591C_zpsm6xmgigd.png[/url]) ([url]http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/alexhill11/media/3407815F-B60E-4A82-BBF8-12A83141591C_zpsm6xmgigd.png.html[/url])
We got that a couple of days ago - are you on catch up? ;)
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I just saw it on Facebook this lunch @petehosk apparently confirmed today by root
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Last time amla got on a flat deck over here he batted most of the week and didn't seem to get bored.
They must be expecting lords to be even flatter than usual and want spin away from the right handers.
Over the years we have tried a few left arm spinners we always seem to be looking for one.
Again....do England see something in Dawson? Gut feeling and nothing else tells me maybe we want an alternative. He bats too and is decent
We have pulled players out of county cricket before with fairly average first class records.
Be very interesting to see how he plays....I think they maybe thought Ansari could be the answer on flat tracks.but that didn't work out.
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SA Philander not playing or dupressi England not won many at lords recently but should win this one
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Genuinely, Liam Dawson will have passed personality tests and has been deemed the right sort. It is very much reflective of the selection policy when the wheels were falling off the Andy Flower reign.
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Blimey give the guy a chance the game has not started yet! :)
Selectors get it right more often than not these days...
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Do they? England have been average for years.
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Also we are crap in London
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That's the spirit chaps!!! I really hope Dawson surprised us all.
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We have a green top
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DECk7OxW0AEvBcc.jpg)
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Jimmy will have all kinds of fun on that track!
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Glad to see test cricket back....
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We're batting boys!
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Must not be as green as it looks
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Nothing says welcome to the English test summer quite like a Cook bunt for 1 to the leg side.
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Early chance for gaz hope he goes well
Good players come good eventually(hopefully!)
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Oh dear, not the best of starts. 2 down and pressure on the captain now
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Should have picked Stoneman. Ah.
The cream shirt/white jumpers looks so village
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Should've reviewed more like
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And that.
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Should have picked Stoneman. Ah.
The cream shirt/white jumpers looks so village
Personally think the cream is proper cricket kit imo. but then i'm a traditionalist and a big fan of the cable knit jumper!!
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Anyone spot how less figity Balance is at the crease
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Does anyone else think Ballance get a lot of negative commentary and I understand that he went through a rough patch and he doesn't get a massive stride but he plays the ball under his eyes??
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New England. Same old problems
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So balance suggests not to review Jennings decision which was so not out it hurts and then reviews that ... dear god
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Another predictable failure for Ballance,
just another Graeme Hick.
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Please can we have a petition to never play at Lords ever again
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Another predictable failure for Ballance,
just another Graeme Hick.
Think you have to give the bloke more than one knock in his comeback, it's not like the rest have looked untroubled, two out cheaply and Root should have been too!
EDIT and Root dropped now too.
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Think you have to give the bloke more than one knock in his comeback, it's not like the rest have looked untroubled, two out cheaply and Root should have been too!
Absolutely right. You'll get @ppccopener started on the "bad old days where we dropped people after two games" again :D
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Looks tough conditions to bat alot of balls seem to be doing a bit off the seam. I think there is a lot for the England bowlers to work with the Dawson selcetion looks like a bit of an error then again if it's seaming around it should spin. As for ballance I would say the openers looked alot less decisive I suspect stoneman might replace jennings at some point this series.
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Yep!! We had four captains in one series back in the day!!
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Jennings failure to review proper game changer
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So balance suggests not to review Jennings decision which was so not out it hurts and then reviews that ... dear god
If you blame Ballance for the first then you have to blame Root for the 2nd don't you?
I know we should wait for a bigger sample size of England's new selection but if it continues then maybe a bit of blame needs to start going Bayliss and Root's way.
I really hope this is just a slight blip before we go on to become a solid team again. Just if it doesn't, will Root get away with picking his mate because of his allies in the media? That sounds like I don't like Root, I do but I do think it is unfair to hammer Ballance and not the people who asked him to play.
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The Review that Jennings didn't take was poor all round, but listening talksport on my way back to the office how they are hammering Ballance for it is a bit far. Saying that he was wanting to save the referal for himself
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Ballance was wide of the crease. Not really a great place to judge.
The ball only just pitched outside leg, only just missed the stumps.
Poor decision by the umpire who was in the best position to see.
If he thought it was out, how is it balances fault, 5foot to the right of the ump to judge it better?
To many people with knifes out already on social media etc looking for a reason to get into ballance.
Philandering bowled well, ballance did a better job than cook, and bairstow with the bat. But then you should never judge anything off one innings.
Give him a chance, But I will say I don't think he's a 3, his chance should be at 5/6
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Both Cook & YJB shots where awful. Just allowing chances and on the first morning of a test. Not great!
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Ballance was wide of the crease. Not really a great place to judge.
The ball only just pitched outside leg, only just missed the stumps.
Poor decision by the umpire who was in the best position to see.
If he thought it was out, how is it balances fault, 5foot to the right of the ump to judge it better?
To many people with knifes out already on social media etc looking for a reason to get into ballance.
Philandering bowled well, ballance did a better job than cook, and bairstow with the bat. But then you should never judge anything off one innings.
Give him a chance, But I will say I don't think he's a 3, his chance should be at 5/6
Give a him a chance yes but he's shown this morning he's not a test match number 3 against the new ball bowled at extra pace
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The Review that Jennings didn't take was poor all round, but listening talksport on my way back to the office how they are hammering Ballance for it is a bit far. Saying that he was wanting to save the referal for himself
Doesn't look great on Ballance when he talks his partner into not reviewing one that even on first viewing looked pretty unlikely to be out then reviews his own plumb lbw shortly after.
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To be honest Root looked a touch at sea early doors. Give it time and let the boys get back into playing test match cricket.
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It is the funny thing with LBW referrals. You're asking your partner, stood a few feet away from the stumps, to make a judgement over that of an experienced umpire who has given them out from straight on.
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'To the benefit of the bowler'
How on Earth was that not a no ball?!
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Surely though when it comes to a review the guy who is batting should take the initiative and decide not the non striker.
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'To the benefit of the bowler'
How on Earth was that not a no ball?!
It was nothing behind the line umpire failed to call it.
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The umpires are relying far too much on DRS to pick up no balls now.
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The umpires are relying far too much on DRS to pick up no balls now.
What happened to the 3rd umpire calling them? Did the experiment not work?
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Surely though when it comes to a review the guy who is batting should take the initiative and decide not the non striker.
Yeah, probably. Nothing wrong with the non-striker helping but lbws are, more often than not, a gamble.
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Obviously not.
At least with the long batting line up we've picked we have got chance to post something reasonable
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The cream shirt/white jumpers looks so village
They really do look terrible with the cream shirt underneath
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Looked like Cook was lacking a bit of international cricket. He was in some good form in the build up to the game and with a combination of England wanting to play a more positive style of game might have been his undoing. It needed the old style Cook to get through that first 20 over period. With reviews I think it needs to be a joint decision as you as a batsmen will know if it's close it can't be completely put on the nonstriker.
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I think it should be 100% the batsman on strike.
If you know where your off stump is, you know if you're outside the line. If you know how tall you are, you know if it's going over the top.
I also find a lot of the non strikers I play with aren't looking to judge LBW's, just watching the striking batsman waiting for a call.
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Cook threw his wicket away, that ball was meant to be left. Cook should play selfishly, rest can play the new style of aggressive cricket.
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I find a lot of the non-strikers I play aren't paying attention to much never mind the LBW or even the call for a run
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And Agreed the white/cream venture defiantly doesn't work
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This over-rate is absolutely shocking
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This over-rate is absolutely shocking
52 overs in 2 sessions is pathetic like
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12 Test wickets lost to No-Balls for Morne.
Someone want to explain to him what that white line is for?
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The no ball issue is perplexing, surely he needs to work harder on hitting his action in the same place every time. The stumps and white lines don't move.
My pet hate is watching bowlers literally practice bowling no balls in warm up and nets.
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Excellent knock from the skipper
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Root joins Peterson lamb strauss Cook and Mcclaren as century makers in there first game as captain of England.
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Just turned on after work. White jumper looks so village on cream!
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To be fair, I'm a village cricketer and I wouldn't be seen dead in white on cream.
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A spinner getting a no ball wicket, you should probably be fined for it.
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Root is a run machine!
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Sad day for the Mo-haters
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Looks like Roots bat has a high middle now?
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Looks like regular oval here...
http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/license/809824450 (http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/license/809824450)
And fairly mid-middle here
http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/license/809661894 (http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/license/809661894)
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Looks like regular oval here...
[url]http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/license/809824450[/url] ([url]http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/license/809824450[/url])
And fairly mid-middle here
[url]http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/license/809661894[/url] ([url]http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/license/809661894[/url])
The second image looks a very short blade
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I’m watching the highlights and my eyes start to twitch and my ocd kicks in every time I see that Jumper and shirt combo.
Surely someone at NB will have seen this and thought “oh that’s looks pretty naff, better change that for the next test”
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I’m watching the highlights and my eyes start to twitch and my ocd kicks in every time I see that Jumper and shirt combo.
Surely someone at NB will have seen this and thought “oh that’s looks pretty naff, better change that for the next test”
Disgusting isnt it? And these lot pay the ECB to wear it! Irony everywhere
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Disgusting isnt it? And these lot pay the ECB to wear it! Irony everywhere
I didn’t think I’d say this but I prefer the brilliant white shade like what SA have and England of old, the new stuff just looks to Aussie for my liking plus the pads and of the batsman don’t match with cream now.
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Root should've been out 3 times, you can't give class players those lives. SA's fielding and no balls issues are getting farcical.
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I’m watching the highlights and my eyes start to twitch and my ocd kicks in every time I see that Jumper and shirt combo.
Surely someone at NB will have seen this and thought “oh that’s looks pretty naff, better change that for the next test”
I wonder if they have messed up the players batch only the launch pictures and promotional pictures in this example for pro-direct the jumper and shirt match, unless its the lighting that makes it appear this way.
(http://www.prodirectcricket.com/productimages/V3_1_Gallery_1/149191.jpg)
(http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/englands-joe-root-during-the-kit-launch-at-the-new-balance-flagship-picture-id676318852)
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So do we think England will kick on to 500-550 or throw away a good chance and limp to 420 after being overly aggressive in the first few overs?
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Oh and over rates? When I go to a test I'm usually a bit tired and emotional by 6.30pm so I don't really notice if they have bowled 87 or 90 overs.
I'm assuming the aim is 15 per hour but allowances are made for the frequent reviews etc. A lot of commentators moan about it. Shouldn't a bowling team be given a target before they begin bowling (or have a D/L type thing on the scoreboard showing if they are up or down) and be punished if they don't reach it. Banning captains or fining players doesn't really work as teams will take a hit for immediate benefits. Surely something like 10 runs per over lost would give an incentive to 'get on with the game'. So today England would have finished on 387-5.
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A spinner getting a no ball wicket, you should probably be fined shot for it.
Completely unacceptable for a village spinner to overstep let alone a pro playing at the highest level.
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Completely unacceptable for a village spinner to overstep let alone a pro playing at the highest level.
Agreed with this. Spinners bowling no balls is just village :D
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Root out in 190, he never seems to start well after batting like a god the day before.
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Still not sure why we picked Dawson
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nice of SA not to review that
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Ali showing why he is so valuable to us....it doesn't change the fact that we need a wicket taking spinner but he gets runs consistently .
It's lower order runs that seem to suit him, he can't play the short stuff, but runs count in the team from anywhere.
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I'm struggling to get tms on today, worked well yesterday with the link to YouTube from the BBC!
Any suggestions for listening abroad?
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I'm struggling to get tms on today, worked well yesterday with the link to YouTube from the BBC!
Any suggestions for listening abroad?
This is the link from the BBC live text, any help?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HATuiPrfh6o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HATuiPrfh6o)
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This is like the Broad before he broke his nose
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Commentator states broad will be looking for a single of this ball as stuart pulls it for six LOL
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Love the Barmy Army's tweet this morning -
Collapses, being bowled off no balls, terrible jumpers, walking for LBWs: this Joe Root team is already incredibly lovable #ENGvSA
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This is the link from the BBC live text, any help?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HATuiPrfh6o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HATuiPrfh6o)
@Mr_Orange you my friend are a hero
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FEAR THE BEARD
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This Moeen is useless.
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Mo :*)
(http://i.imgur.com/Pcjnfdl.gif)
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Go on the beard that's feared!
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(http://i.imgur.com/gqpxWH7.png)
Shouldn't be in the team
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Ali never looks threatening but always gets you.
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Broad. 9 overs, 4 maidens, 11 runs, 2 wickets. Nuff said
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Adidas going gold for 2018? Yuk!
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Bavuma looks good, has good technique.
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Rabada banned from second test due to innapropriate language used...
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It's more funny being Ben Stokes of all people, ah send offs
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Rabada banned from second test due to innapropriate language used...
Oh dear, oh dear.
Straight swap for Morris? Not a bad swap.
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Watching the highlights, a thought: has there ever been a team who bat and bowl the opposite way round as much as this England side? Excluding YJB as he's keeping, there's only two England players who bat and bowl with the same hand.
Also, Temba Bavuma is wearing black socks. At Lords.
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Looks to be a bit of cloud cover at Lords today, if it swings I expect Broad and Anderson to clean up the lower order and tail very quickly once the new ball is taken.
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Warne looks like he's been eating a fair few pies recently.
Brilliant masterclass with Baz
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YJB pinning one on the foot and the captain can't stop laughing. I love Joe.
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Mo is still rubbish yeah?
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Good Mo, Nice Mo. Lovely drift Mo.
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And a successful DRS review. Rooty is the chosen one
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England firmly on top now, bat sensible until lunch tomorrow then have dash towards tea then get 4 sessions to finish them off.
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Thank God we're not batting last on this pitch
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Ali to the rescue
Got to feel that cook and ballance dug a hole by batting so slow.
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I still think we're good with the total we have but 50 more would be nice, this is slowly turning into a minefield
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Spinning and keeping low from seamers not going to be easy but you'd like 300 plus lead
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They have enough with SA's batting line up. If AbD and faf were playing maybe a different story
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Nice pair for Dawson
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Dawson batting at 8? I reckon thats four places too high...
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It does seem confusing.
Rashid seemed to be batting well and consistently and taking wickets, so unsure why they changed it to play Dawson?
Anyway, you never know....Dawson may now grab a 5-fer!!
So this game is all about the 2 high class batsmen SA have. Amla and de Kock are capable but if this wicket is deteriorating they will have to bat brilliantly!
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Last over before tea and Duminy pulls one to mo to get out its now possible this game will be over today.
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Gifting their wickets, but its great to see Mo bowl with some control, albeit aided by the pitch a little
-
AMLA GONE
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I still don't understand why England picked Dawson... ;)
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Love some of the comentators comments!
"Root won't be happy until he get de Kock out!"
and
"I wonder if they will change the order and push de Kock up"
:D
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330 looking like 3030 at the minute.
Trying to think of something bigger than a mountain that one could climb.
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HUGE WICKET!
-
Really unlucky way to get out, but a massive wicket just the same!
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Moeen is the GOAT
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Is moeen still not good enough?
Man of the match performance this.
-
The fat lady has just entered the building and is removing her coat!
She will gargle with salt water and start warming her voice up very soon.
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Moeen is an awful bowler, cannot believe England pick him as their front line spinner... :D ;)
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Graeme Swann never got 10fer at Lords
-
Does Morkel use Amla's bats?
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With Cook & Root as batters
Stokes/Ali/Bairstow as all rounders
and Broad & Anderson as bowlers we just need to nail down
1 x opener a number 3 & 5 and a bowler and we really could be quite decent.
I'm a Hales at 5 guy.
And the bowler slot is probably surface dependent
But are we any closer to sorting the top order??
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It does seem confusing.
Rashid seemed to be batting well and consistently and taking wickets, so unsure why they changed it to play Dawson?
Anyway, you never know....Dawson may now grab a 5-fer!!
So this game is all about the 2 high class batsmen SA have. Amla and de Kock are capable but if this wicket is deteriorating they will have to bat brilliantly!
Rashid isn't a test-class spinner at the moment, shouldn't get a game outside of pyjama cricket.
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The bowler you're looking for is Seniorplayer, though he prefers to go by "Chris Woakes"
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Moeen is an awful bowler, cannot believe England pick him as their front line spinner... :D ;)
Listened to the Sky Cricket podcast this morning and Bayliss said that Ali still sees himself as a batsman who bowls a bit so they are selecting him at the moment as the second spinner
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What? So they class Dawson as their 1st spinner?
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What? So they class Dawson as their 1st spinner?
That is what i took from it, which i thought was odd
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What? So they class Dawson as their 1st spinner?
apparantly it helps Mo bowl without any pressure. clearly this little jedi mind trick has worked.
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apparantly it helps Mo bowl without any pressure. clearly this little jedi mind trick has worked.
Yes he did say that too, i wonder having proved it in this test they will bring woakes back in (when fit)
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Yes he did say that too, i wonder having proved it in this test they will bring woakes back in (when fit)
There's no way they won't play Woakes once he's fit, he'll come straight back into the side.
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There's no way they won't play Woakes once he's fit, he'll come straight back into the side.
Agree I guess it's down to wood or dawson when he is fit again
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Agree I guess it's down to wood or dawson when he is fit again
I would imagine it will be Wood unless it is a real spinning track!
Any news or ETA on when Woakes is likely to be match fit again?
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3rd test i think
-
series may be done by then, any return for Woakes will wait until the Windies. At which point Jimmy and Broad will be due a rest each.
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Yes slightly confused by Bayliss saying that was the ideal attack for any surface...I'm glad Dawson played and picked a couple up but it's a big change picking two spinners is any match. It just happens to be drier than the Sahara at the moment and Lords spun more than most expected.
I don't quite get where woakes fits in unless you are right @Manormanic we could now rotate the seamers a bit going forward...
Maybe they don't think Wood will last a full series.....
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Yes slightly confused by Bayliss saying that was the ideal attack for any surface...I'm glad Dawson played and picked a couple up but it's a big change picking two spinners is any match. It just happens to be drier than the Sahara at the moment and Lords spun more than most expected.
I don't quite get where woakes fits in unless you are right @Manormanic we could now rotate the seamers a bit going forward...
Maybe they don't think Wood will last a full series.....
I know what Baylis said but looking ahead would you really go into the 1st ashes test at the Gabba with that attack??
I do agree that they dont think Wood can through a series so you will see big rotation with the seamers. Especially as there are very capable people to come in like TRJ etc..
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I would have have ball ahead of TRJ to be honest having seen him bowl, good bowler thou TRJ is. Ball is pretty quick and gets bounce.
We had loads of bowling options at Lords, helps obviously mo and stokes and if you count Dawson, are allrounders.
My gut feeling and I know he is perhaps not rated (on here anyway :)) is Dawson may well stay in.
If you look back thru England selection, we have always wanted a left arm spinner...it helps if they bat.
Look at Ashley Giles, he dried it up a bit and took some overs off the seamers...
Maybe we really do want two spinners going forward.
@FattusCattus will be turning cartwheels at the thought. He's old enough to remember Embury and Edmonds.
As am I :)
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I like Dawson he can bat and bowl and field I think he fits into the sum of parts.
I like the direction England are going, if we find solidarity up the order we will be a fine side.
I like what we are doing we are simply evolving things and with the help of proper multi dimensional cricketers.
we may lack a touch of world class in certain areas but we are finding a way.
Wood who I do rate could find himself sidelined unless he becomes the match winner.
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One more key batter for England up the top. Cook, Root and Bairstow all very good but one more would make it a great batting order. That is where Australia are lacking at the moment too. Warner and Smith then ???
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I like Dawson he can bat and bowl and field I think he fits into the sum of parts.
I like the direction England are going, if we find solidarity up the order we will be a fine side.
I like what we are doing we are simply evolving things and with the help of proper multi dimensional cricketers.
we may lack a touch of world class in certain areas but we are finding a way.
Wood who I do rate could find himself sidelined unless he becomes the match winner.
Hope not its just a matter of time if he can stay fit and a pitch that suits him before Wood Wins a match for England.
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I like Dawson he can bat and bowl and field I think he fits into the sum of parts.
As a Yorkie, I was a bit surprised that Rashid had been dropped, however, in hindsight (and watching him at Scarborough vs Somerset), Rashid didn't quite get his accuracy and dependability that they were hoping for after a number of tests.
I didn't see much of Dawson, but from what I hear, he bowled well with decent accuracy/consistency and got the ball to turn. Look at Giles, shows you don't need to be a big turner of the ball ton be the main spinner.
I think having Dawson and Ali is a good balance going forward and would like to see them play more often together than not.
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I think (and hope) England will continue to play two spinners as a matter of course.
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Dawson bowled really badly on day 2, maybe nerves. He seemed to bowl better in the second innings
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The ball to remove Amla was an absolute worldy!
England clearly like Dawson. Personally, I think he is a bowler they feel they can rely on when he settles and will offer wicket taking as well as holding possibilities.
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I don't mind Dawson but for me this almost completely rules out any kind of real Test career for Rashid which I think is a shame. The only way they will ever get the best out of Rashid is to back him in a run of games and for the skipper to show faith in him, he is the epitome of a confidence bowler and now he's effectively being told he's at best the 3rd choice spinner in the country, it will have knocked his confidence (which despite results I thought was improving quite a bit on the India tour) no end.
Also I thought Dawson bowled well in the last innings but for what it's worth I think Rashid would have been nigh on unplayable on that pitch in the last innings, but if Dawson is the horse the selectors have backed we, the fans, should try and do the same.
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Dawson the next Ashley Giles? ;)
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The problem, to me anyway, with Moeen and Rashid is that neither of them seem to want to pressure of being a 'number 1' and to be used like Swann was to bowl teams out.
They both seem to perform when the pressure isn't on them as much (Moeen in this test after being told he's a batsman who bowls and generally in England, Rashid in the ODI games when he can have 4 men out as protection and the runs conceded aren't focussed on as much).
Dawson has been told his job is to keep it tight and take the pressure. They've found someone willing to take it on.
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Having two eases the pressure on the other. It matters little who is 'number 1'.
Also, spinners bowling in tandem is great.
Graeme Swann was an exceptional bowler.
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The puma gear Kuhn is using looks horrible, looks like a cheapo brand off of ebay
-
I wonder if Kuhn has ever been approached by a certain Dutch beer manufacturer for sponsorship?
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Blowers seems completely demob happy.
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Why would any pro not wear some sort of neck protection now it's openly available?
Kuhn very lucky that wasn't an inch lower.
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Off for rain jimmy Broad and Wood have bowled well
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Still don't really understand Dawson's selection at all
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However fair play to the Saffers for moving De Kock up like they have done (weyooooooooooooooooooo)
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Good evening session so far, thank God for Broad breaking through
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That's a brilliant take from YJB
-
Bairstow has kept well all day
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This is why you never ask 'who's winning?' when it comes to cricket
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Tms on the way home from work Dawson not up to it according to them
Which does beg the question with 2 spinners the 'ideal team' do we still look for another or dump that plan and get back woakes asap?
Pretty obvious rashid is not in favour in tests now
Mo seems to have a problem being the sole number 1 spinner :-)
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Tms on the way home from work Dawson not up to it according to them
Which does beg the question with 2 spinners the 'ideal team' do we still look for another or dump that plan and get back woakes asap?
Pretty obvious rashid is not in favour in tests now
Mo seems to have a problem being the sole number 1 spinner :-)
Having watched it
Don't think any spinner in the country would have done much today on that track.
Also don't get this spinner number 1 Dawson and spinner no 2 Mo business coming out of the England camp when Ali took ten last match.
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Well senior......it appears Mo despite being the best we have (arguably) he feels better being the lesser spinner as in he is likely to play better and sees himself as a top 5(not in my book) batter who bowls a bit. A batsman who bowls so to speak.
So another spinner is in but there's no way he can be expected to be the No 1 having played just a couple of tests and may or may not be good enough in the long run....
They say cricket is in the mind, some things don't change!!
I'm a bit confused myself(don't take much).... For what it's worth I think Mo is a very good player, about number 7 and decent spinner...
His record is up there wickets wise and runs. but he can't play he short quick stuff and that means he won't make the top 5
Perhaps I've confused myself :)
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His record is up there wickets wise and runs. but he can't play he short quick stuff and that means he won't make the top 5
He used to be an opener in his county days? I find it surprising that an ex-opener can't handle short ball. I thought that was a pre-requisite for an opener.
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He used to be an opener in his county days? I find it surprising that an ex-opener can't handle short ball. I thought that was a pre-requisite for an opener.
Here's the difference in county cricket you rarely face two worldclass quicks in the same match
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He used to be an opener in his county days? I find it surprising that an ex-opener can't handle short ball. I thought that was a pre-requisite for an opener.
Batted at three I think but yes, you're right. I think the difference is that at test level you're facing better bowlers, whereas in county cricket you might face a proper test-class fast bowler just three or four times a season as opposed to facing two or three in every game.
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I think Liam Dawson has been stitched up a little.
I think its a poor selection anyway but selecting two spinners at Trent Bridge after struggling on a bunsen is a tough ask. His gotta score runs. Cause i cant see him picking up more wickets than TRJ would have, or scoring enough runs to justify picking hi, over a proper batter.
He might end up being my Chris Woakes @Seniorplayer
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I'd just play Crane or Rashid. Can't see anything that Dawson offers over either- he isn't nearly as economical as I thought.
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I think Liam Dawson has been stitched up a little.
I think its a poor selection anyway but selecting two spinners at Trent Bridge after struggling on a bunsen is a tough ask. His gotta score runs. Cause i cant see him picking up more wickets than TRJ would have, or scoring enough runs to justify picking hi, over a proper batter.
He might end up being my Chris Woakes @Seniorplayer
As England want a number one spinner
Like they have done with Woakes and others they should stick with Dawson and see what he can do on a pitch and in conditions that are helpful
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Openers both out,
Jennings getting found out nonstop.
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Openers both out,
Jennings getting found out nonstop.
Bit harsh on Jennings that was an absolute nut that got him.
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Bit harsh on Jennings that was an absolute nut that got him.
His start to Test Cricket would have been worse if he had been caught on 0 vs India in his first innings.
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His start to Test Cricket would have been worse if he had been caught on 0 vs India in his first innings.
Maybe so. But isn't that what cricket is all about the what ifs and then the character it takes to go on from there to make the most of your chances.
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One of the best 50s I've seen for awhile when we were really under the gun.
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Here we go again, a couple of bad scores and he's not good enough, can't we just let him settle in! lol at the long run of bad form cook had and we back him and look now....
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Root's just a joy to watch. Makes it look so easy. Scoring at more than a run a ball, yet it doesn't feel like he's gone after it, he's just batted
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Ballance gets in and out again... surely he can't bat at three for much longer!
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As I said Ballance is like nother Graeme Hick, a county bully.
-
Harsh on Hick i think!
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Well. That's embarrassing for the umpire...
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Please can someone justify Dawson's selection
-
Save us Jimmy...
-
Ballance gets in and out again... surely he can't bat at three for much longer!
He's not a test number 3 struggles against the new ball should bat at 5
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Go the underdogs!
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I think root should be up to to 3. Put YJB in at 4 and then bring in Samit Patel for ballance. Then at least you have one more bowler in the side and you dont need to play dawson as an extra spinner
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I think root should be up to to 3. Put YJB in at 4 and then bring in Samit Patel for ballance. Then at least you have one more bowler in the side and you dont need to play dawson as an extra spinner
Surely , what Dawson offers with the ball can't be much more than what Root could ? Or am i missing something ?
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Roots as good as Dawson but Maybe now Joes skipper he feels he as enough to do and is reluctant to bowl also England have said they want a number one spinner.
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Roots as good as Dawson but Maybe now Joes skipper he feels he as enough to do and is reluctant to bowl also England have said they want a number one spinner.
then why did they pick a number 3 spinner ?
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then why did they pick a number 3 spinner ?
From the England camp Dawson number 1 Ali number 2.
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From the England camp Dawson number 1 Ali number 2.
Yes :) it doesn't make much sense does it! Ali has not bowled that much here and it is a seamers wicket so far, so I'm not sure how much Dawson can or is expects to do.
I know there are varying views on Woakes but I think myself this shows an unbalanced team without him. We look a batsman short to me.
I don't know where that leaves the two spinners theory Bayliss was on about . To my mind that's fine but root is your second spinner.
If it's a raging turner in Bombay that's a different story.
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Please get rid of Dawson right now, ta
-
Anderson keeps getting De Kock out in this series!
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Yes :) it doesn't make much sense does it! Ali has not bowled that much here and it is a seamers wicket so far, so I'm not sure how much Dawson can or is expects to do.
I know there are varying views on Woakes but I think myself this shows an unbalanced team without him. We look a batsman short to me.
I don't know where that leaves the two spinners theory Bayliss was on about . To my mind that's fine but root is your second spinner.
If it's a raging turner in Bombay that's a different story.
We are a batsman short if you swop Dawson for Woakes your still a specialist batman short and you end up with 5 seamers still ubalanced if Dawson is left out bring in Stoneman and as already written Root bowls.
-
Anderson keeps getting De Kock out in this series!
shouldn't he be arrested for that ? :)
-
We are a batsman short if you swop Dawson for Woakes your still a specialist batman short and you end up with 5 seamers still ubalanced if Dawson is left out bring in Stoneman and as already written Root bowls.
Woakes is a very capable batsman but yes see your point. I think Stoneman has been unlucky not to play tests yet myself.
It would solve a problem presuming selectors went down that road, he could bat 3 I don't think ballance is a number 3 bat although he is a good player.
I think the best position for GB is 5 , bairstow reverts to the normal keeper batsman spot.
Someone still has to be left out but it's an option that makes the batting look stronger...imo.
-
During the lunchbreak being Monty Forthright and watchable here's hoping a county gives him a call.
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Du Plessis has applied the clips to his stem guard but hasn't cut the tabs off #Village
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Hashim Amla is Dawson's bunny!
-
Opening bids for a declaration figure?
-
460 lead if not bowled out
-
Lead seems good enough to win.
-
Sure does we have been run ragged in the field by SA....we've got to be in for a little tricky session tonight is my guess.
I want to se a real fight by us second innings, forget the entertaining cricket stuff just graft
I don't want to sound like sir Geoff but ! :)
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To add balance to the Dawson discussion Ali 4 for 78 best figures for a spinner in a test at Trent bridge for 50 years.
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To add balance to the Dawson discussion Ali 4 for 78 best figures for a spinner in a test at Trent bridge for 50 years.
He shouldn't be in the side...
Why have the #DropMoeen brigade suddenly all gone quiet?
-
Ali boombia !
i like Moeen . i wish he was an aussie so we could pick him at 6/7 and play 4 fast bowlers .... its a better option than what weve got ie/ Maxell , or even worse , Agar.
-
I can't believe that I am going to write the following words...I would rather have Samit Patel in the England side instead of Liam Dawson :o
-
Ballance really needs to go
-
Would actually just rather England opened with Buttler from now on and to see if he can get to 50 from 30 balls.
Might as well just get some runs on the board as keep trying all these openers that just aren't good enough.
Hameed has got to be the only one that has looked anything like.
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I do not think Ballance is a number 3! He shouldn't be there.
But.
Ballance is a better number 3 than jennings is an opener currently.
-
Jennings and Ballance look like they are just waiting to get out.
-
Root by all accounts campaigned for the inclusion of ballance and Dawson. Maybe he should let the selectors do their jobs? By all accounts picking ballance went against their thoughts...
And I'm still not convinced jennings is anywhere near the real deal!
-
Ballance is a number 5, not really keen on changes to the batting but stoneman has to be on with a shout at 3
We would be one less bowler but we might be better
Agreed long term hammed looks the part...potentially anyway
-
I suspect this may not make it to tea - I don't think we've got a line up of gritty Boycotts to come!
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Seems like there is a lot of criticism for ballance but nothing for Jennings. Ballance isn't a number 3, he should be 4 or 5. Batting has clearly been difficult in the first 2 test matches. Only amla and root are averaging over 40. Personally I think we need a RH batsman to open with cook, seen people mentioning joe denly, he's certainly the man in form but div 1 is a step above div 2. I'd like to see hameed given another chance despite his rotten form so far this season, or maybe even Sam robson.
Root needs to bat number 3 as he's the best player in the team by a mile. I'd give ballance another game or the rest of the series and if he doesn't perform I think Westley deserves a call up. Also, we need woakes back as soon as possible, the balance of the side just doesn't seem right without him.
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Ballance needs to be dropped now and told he's never getting back into the England setup unless there's notable changes to his technique. Get Stoneman or Westley in for him next game.
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Ballance needs to be dropped now and told he's never getting back into the England setup unless there's notable changes to his technique. Get Stoneman or Westley in for him next game.
Wouldn't be surprised if we see Westley AND Stoneman for the next game.
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Jennings looks fried, hasn't looked like scoring a run all series. Ballance needs to drop down the order if he's to stay in the side. Root obviously wants him there!
Would love to see Stoneman and Eskinazaki come in with Ballance moving to 5.
Cook
Stoneman,
Eski
Root
Ballance
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Woaks/Wood
Broad
Anderson
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Wouldn't be surprised if we see Westley AND Stoneman for the next game.
I think stone man is in line for a call up
And I don't want to sound like a broken record but we are unbalanced without woakes
He's not a world beater agreed but he is what we need lower order and bowling.more than the sum of his parts is how I look at it
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Eskinazi has only played 19 FC games, bit of a leap into Test cricket isn't it?
-
Ballance has to go before Jennings. He's had he exact same flaw in his technique exposed for the 3rd time in his 3rd stint in the side. He's either got to make changes or he won't be an international cricketer given he can't play a good quality pace attack.
Pretty sure Eskinazakis still got a while to go to be English qualified.
-
Ugh what a terrible shot from cook - root got a great ball but the rest have looked bad
-
Yeah just checked and despite having an English mum and British Passport he's not eligible to play yet.
Would go with Westley in that instance. Do think Eski will be a test regular though. Looks class.
-
Early finish on the cards here...philander this morning was class!
-
Ugh what a terrible shot from cook - root got a great ball but the rest have looked bad
Not sure that even constitutes a shot....bloody odd way to get out.
Good grab from De Kock
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Biggest baffling choice is Dawson for me.
We have to bowl.
Anderson
Broad
Wood
Stokes
Ali
Dawson
Plus root/jennings software desperate.
So 8 bowler's.
Yet we can't bat for (No Swearing Please)?
We have 2 proper all-rounders in Ali and stokes, time to use them to add a proper batsman to. The 11 rather than as we seem to keep doing. Adding a bowler for no apparent reason.
Cook
Hameed/robson
Jennings/stoneman
Root
Ballance/buttler
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Broad
Wood
Anderson
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I'm not keen on 2 left handers opening the batting at all. Philander has it on a string against them.
Wouldn't mind seeing Joe Clarke get a chance in the middle order either, fantastic young player.
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You've also got to look at giving the opposition too many runs on a tricky pitch and Wood & Dawson have shown less penetration than a eunuch.
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You've also got to look at giving the opposition too many runs on a tricky pitch and Wood & Dawson have shown less penetration than a eunuch.
Wood's an injury doubt for the next test anyway apparently.
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Baffling how poor Wood's been this series so far, he's got serious wheels but hasn't really looked threatening at all.
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Biggest baffling choice is Dawson for me.
We have to bowl.
Anderson
Broad
Wood
Stokes
Ali
Dawson
Plus root/jennings software desperate.
So 8 bowler's.
Yet we can't bat for (No Swearing Please)?
We have 2 proper all-rounders in Ali and stokes, time to use them to add a proper batsman to. The 11 rather than as we seem to keep doing. Adding a bowler for no apparent reason.
Cook
Hameed/robson
Jennings/stoneman
Root
Ballance/buttler
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Broad
Wood
Anderson
This is absolutely spot on.
You can debate the personnel in the team till the cows come home but until they realise that the make up of it is completely wrong it is pointless.
Why we are playing with 6 main bowlers is beyond me - in SA's 2nd innings of 104 overs Dawson bowled 11 overs! that's it, doesn't matter how many he went for etc... i am purely talking about it would only have been an extra 2 overs each for the others.
If Root/Bayliss are that worried about playing 2 spinners then have a mix of 3 and 2 of your 5 bowlers and then with the extra batsman in the side it allows you to play a more attacking spinner like Crane/Rashid
England's weakness over the past 2 years has been it's batting - it liability to a collapse - so playing 1 less batsman surely just puts extra pressure on this.
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Also doesn't help that we are practiscsllynstarting the innings 2 down with balance and Jennings currently
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Also doesn't help that we are practiscsllynstarting the innings 2 down with balance and Jennings currently
That's the same Keaton Jennings that everyone was complaining England wouldn't pick. Another one.
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I've never thought he was our best option as an opener, and quite simply there hasn't been one call up in the opening spot that has looked like an international cricketer with the exception of maybe hameed but he's not in form. Cricket is a cut throats game and very quickly will you be found out if you have a weakness, Jennings looked good on paper but seemingly (on current evidence) isn't good enough - time will tell but how much time he gets to show this is a difficult one.
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I like that team posted. I just think moeen at 8 is a bit low, he seems to get most of his runs at 7. His average is poor at 5 and 8 I believe. When woakes is back, he can go at 8 and then we almost have 3 genuine all rounders in the side.
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Dawson to bat out the next day and a half to win England the match and retain his test spot anyone :D?
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Have i missed the discussion somewhere? Why no hotspot in this series?
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I'm not sure having most of the key England players play barely any red ball cricket this year has worked wonders for our test batting...
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Have i missed the discussion somewhere? Why no hotspot in this series?
Anything related to Hawkeye is down to it being paid for by the host broadcaster, in this case Sky.
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Anything related to Hawkeye is down to it being paid for by the host broadcaster, in this case Sky.
Who have buckets of cash. If this was an away series in the west indies i could understand penny pinching.
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My team for the next test:
Cook
Robson
Stoneman
Root
Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Broad
Ball (if fit)
Anderson
Jennings is in terrible form so misses out for Robson who has scored heavily this season. Also gives us a LH/RH opening combination. Stoneman in at 3, been a heavy run scorer in first class cricket for 4/5 seasons now and has earned his opportunity. Ballance down to 5 where he should be better suited. Would also bring Ball back if he's fit enough as Wood doesn't look particularly threatening from what I've seen.
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they just surrendered. no spine.
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Spineless and gutless, that's all I have to say.
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I have and will support us regardless
But that was without a fight and not acceptable
Root said after lords he wanted a test next time well old timers would say so not disrespect the game
And they would be right
That is not good enough by a long shot
-
Now series has become a lot more interesting and fun for third parties.
-
Pathetic
-
I would want a refund if I had paid to see that
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Anyone else not entirely convinced by roots captaincy?
I know it's easy to criticise after a display like this but I wasn't impressed after lords either, it's probably too soon to judge but he seems a little unimaginative and happy to go through motions
-
Anyone else not entirely convinced by roots captaincy?
I know it's easy to criticise after a display like this but I wasn't impressed after lords either, it's probably too soon to judge but he seems a little unimaginative and happy to go through motions
He's a positive figure and a character you want in your team but does he really have the skills to become a leader?
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He's a positive figure and a character you want in your team but does he really have the skills to become a leader?
Give him a chance lads, only been two tests!
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Give him a chance lads, only been two tests!
I deffo will, it'll be interesting to see how he bounces back. I'm in the camp that says he shouldn't have gotten the captaincy in the first place. I want him to prove me wrong
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Anyone else not entirely convinced by roots captaincy?
I know it's easy to criticise after a display like this but I wasn't impressed after lords either, it's probably too soon to judge but he seems a little unimaginative and happy to go through motions
Dont think you can blame root , it was a poor performance Overall , Especially the batting on the way south Africa Batted , I would like to see Dawson out , not sure what he adds ? , So ether an extra batsmen or bowler
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Dont think you can blame root , it was a poor performance Overall , Especially the batting on the way south Africa Batted , I would like to see Dawson out , not sure what he adds ? , So ether an extra batsmen or bowler
I find impossible to believe it won't be an extra batsman
Woakes is out till Windies series
We can't go in with this many bowlers again surely can we?
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Baffling how poor Wood's been this series so far, he's got serious wheels but hasn't really looked threatening at all.
England haven't used him correctly he's should be your shock bowler 4 overs spells then off
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Some very average shots there. Lacked fight.
My team next test
Robson
Cook
Stoneman
Root
Ballance
Bairstow
Ali
Plunkett
Broad
Wood
Anderson
Maybe at the Oval go Rashid over Plunkett. Its good listening to Pollock thoughts.
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No Stokes??
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and no Monty????? :O
-
No Stokes??
My bad I thought something was missing ha.
Stokes for ballance looks much better a lot of bowling though.
-
Hmmmm could be Ballance out anyway...
https://twitter.com/SkyCricket/status/886977496482279427
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Social media at its worst with those comments on twitter..he is a gutsy player no question
I would have him in my side at 5 or 6.
Stoneman in for me and we play 3 openers
I'm not convinced about Jennings either thou!!
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Would defiantly be looking at bringing Stoneman in for Jennings not convinced that he's ready.
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Social media at its worst with those comments on twitter..he is a gutsy player no question
I would have him in my side at 5 or 6.
Stoneman in for me and we play 3 openers
I'm not convinced about Jennings either thou!!
Some of the comments are definitely bad aren't they even if you don't rate Ballance.
For me as we have picked Jennings and Ballance we must stick with them for the series. Then if needs be give someone else a go vs WI. I would just bat them in different positions.
Next test -
Cook
Stoneman - home ground and deserves the chance
Jennings - i think he needs to move down a slot
Root
Ballance - clearly not a number 3
Stokes
Bairstow - scored all his runs at 7
Mo
Broad
Crane/TRJ - pitch dependent either attacking spin or another seamer
Anderson
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Plenty of talk about at extra batsmen but we're struggling to find enough to fill the current places that can actually contribute anything.
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Plenty of talk about at extra batsmen but we're struggling to find enough to fill the current places that can actually contribute anything.
Stoneman, Westley and Livingstone are the 3 I'd be looking at right now in that order.
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Livingstone looked way out his depth to me in the t20s. I'd get Stoneman and Malan in for Jennings and Ballance-cant see Ballance succeeding when he plays from behind the crease like it's French cricket!
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Stoneman has to come in, Malan is a decent outside vet, livingstone not sure but did excel with the lions, robson might be a good shout, or even nick Browne from essex
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Livingstone looked way out his depth to me in the t20s. I'd get Stoneman and Malan in for Jennings and Ballance-cant see Ballance succeeding when he plays from behind the crease like it's French cricket!
He did, but then does the fact he averages under 20 in t20 suggest that perhaps he just hasn't nailed down in limited overs cricket in general yet (despite being a fairly aggressive batsman) compared to FC cricket.
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THE SELECTORS HAVE KIND OF SEEN THE LIGHT http://bit.ly/2uCeeyS (http://bit.ly/2uCeeyS)
HALLELUJAH
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THE SELECTORS HAVE KIND OF SEEN THE LIGHT [url]http://bit.ly/2uCeeyS[/url] ([url]http://bit.ly/2uCeeyS[/url])
HALLELUJAH
But Ballance keeps his place if fit :(.
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Keaton Jennings needs to go ASAP, he's like a walking wicket right now.
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I would be surprised if Ballance (if fit) and probably Jennings don't get the whole series. That's what England do these days.
Not saying I agree with it just what i reckon will happen.
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Jake ball to replace Mark wood? I'd rather have wood than ball!
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I would be surprised if Ballance (if fit) and probably Jennings don't get the whole series. That's what England do these days.
Not saying I agree with it just what i reckon will happen.
Looks like Stoneman in for the oval picking a genuine opener has got to be the way forward, Jennings 3(not convinced myself) but he needs a decent run until Hameed returns(hopefully)
Having two spinners apparently because mo does not want to be number 1 has confused everything ...Dawson tipped for the drop now so that policy scrapped it seems if stoneman comes in for Dawson.
Nasser slammed the selectors last night and he has a point.bayliss needs to wake up and stop shrugging his shoulders.
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At some point the coaching staff has to come into question too, they're clearly a talented bunch of players so why are they so prone to capitulation in the face of adversity? They need the coaches to strengthen their resolve, at international level there's only so much technical work the coaches can do (the players are clearly good enough to have got this far) so why aren't they helping improve the mental side of the game? This is where having Ramps as batting coach makes very little sense, his technique and ability were top drawer but he lost it mentally at the top level, they need someone like Collingwood in there, yeah his technique wasn't great but he had the mental capacity to get the best out of what he had and the grit to take it to the opposition, that's what the current team needs to learn, Stokes, Bairstow, Ali etc. are obviously very good players and will score you hatfuls of runs when they're on top but when the going gets tough there's only really Cook and to a lesser extent Root capable of battling through.
On a selection note if Stoneman is coming in then my XI would be:
Cook
Stoneman
Jennings
Root
Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Broad
Wood
Anderson
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With the return of Duplesis we have seen a different SA he should take some credit for the turnaround did think though having men on the boundary and only 2 slips England 5 wickets down needing nearly 300 to win was poor Captaincy.
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At some point the coaching staff has to come into question too, they're clearly a talented bunch of players so why are they so prone to capitulation in the face of adversity? They need the coaches to strengthen their resolve, at international level there's only so much technical work the coaches can do (the players are clearly good enough to have got this far) so why aren't they helping improve the mental side of the game? This is where having Ramps as batting coach makes very little sense, his technique and ability were top drawer but he lost it mentally at the top level, they need someone like Collingwood in there, yeah his technique wasn't great but he had the mental capacity to get the best out of what he had and the grit to take it to the opposition, that's what the current team needs to learn, Stokes, Bairstow, Ali etc. are obviously very good players and will score you hatfuls of runs when they're on top but when the going gets tough there's only really Cook and to a lesser extent Root capable of battling through.
On a selection note if Stoneman is coming in then my XI would be:
Cook
Stoneman
Jennings
Root
Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Broad
Wood
Anderson
This is a very good post, despite the posters obvious handicap of being Northern.
A little bit of grit injected into the coaching staff might be what is needed, we can't bat like 'Champagne Charlies' every test.
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This is a very good post, despite the posters obvious handicap of being Northern.
A little bit of grit injected into the coaching staff might be what is needed, we can't bat like 'Champagne Charlies' every test.
I got as far south as Chester for a day at the races over the weekend, Southern air must have affected my thinking. Anyways I'm off to drink a pint of gravy before a day down the mine.
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I think Jennings and Wood are really struggling to keep their place. Ballance has probably done enough to keep his place till the end of the series, he's had three starts, just not kicked on. I would much rather see him at 4 or 5, moving Root up to 3 and perhaps Bairstow 4.
Stoneman in for Jennings and a bowler with a bit more to offer in for Wood.
Then there's the question of Dawson, and whether he is struggling or just needs time to settle in to international cricket. For me, I think we keep him in until Woakes is fit and then review how he's done.
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At some point the coaching staff has to come into question too, they're clearly a talented bunch of players so why are they so prone to capitulation in the face of adversity? They need the coaches to strengthen their resolve, at international level there's only so much technical work the coaches can do (the players are clearly good enough to have got this far) so why aren't they helping improve the mental side of the game? This is where having Ramps as batting coach makes very little sense, his technique and ability were top drawer but he lost it mentally at the top level, they need someone like Collingwood in there, yeah his technique wasn't great but he had the mental capacity to get the best out of what he had and the grit to take it to the opposition, that's what the current team needs to learn, Stokes, Bairstow, Ali etc. are obviously very good players and will score you hatfuls of runs when they're on top but when the going gets tough there's only really Cook and to a lesser extent Root capable of battling through.
On a selection note if Stoneman is coming in then my XI would be:
Cook
Stoneman
Jennings
Root
Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Broad
Wood
Anderson
This is why , as an aussie id like to see guys like chris rogers as a batting coach . Gritty , mentally tough batsmen ,who made the most of limted talent , are the best batting coaches .
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Stoneman is the new Jennings.
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Love it when the media bang on about someone being brought in to play on their 'home ground' when Stoneman's probably played about 10 fc games there.
Is Woakes not fit? Still remain unconvinced by Wood as a test option and in any case he's clearly not at his best, if not Woakes then who do we bring in though.
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I'm on holiday. I was looking forward to watching the final day's play in between nipping off to the pool. I feel robbed.
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I think Jennings and Wood are really struggling to keep their place. Ballance has probably done enough to keep his place till the end of the series, he's had three starts, just not kicked on. I would much rather see him at 4 or 5, moving Root up to 3 and perhaps Bairstow 4.
Stoneman in for Jennings and a bowler with a bit more to offer in for Wood.
Then there's the question of Dawson, and whether he is struggling or just needs time to settle in to international cricket. For me, I think we keep him in until Woakes is fit and then review how he's done.
Except ballance is still being found out in the same way as he always has been, recalled after showing no improvement to technique or desire to improve technique which is his downfall! Anyone can edge there way to 20-30 he looks like a wicket every ball!
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This is why , as an aussie id like to see guys like chris rogers as a batting coach . Gritty , mentally tough batsmen ,who made the most of limted talent , are the best batting coaches .
He's taken Somerset's batting backwards!!!!
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I think Jennings and Wood are really struggling to keep their place. Ballance has probably done enough to keep his place till the end of the series, he's had three starts, just not kicked on. I would much rather see him at 4 or 5, moving Root up to 3 and perhaps Bairstow 4.
Stoneman in for Jennings and a bowler with a bit more to offer in for Wood.
Then there's the question of Dawson, and whether he is struggling or just needs time to settle in to international cricket. For me, I think we keep him in until Woakes is fit and then review how he's done.
Bairstow shouldn't be in the top 5 - he maybe one of our best batters but quite simply he doesn't do well for whatever reason up there -
Test Average in each position - Overall it is - 40.5
4 - 15.0
5 - 30.1
6 - 45.9
7 - 46.5
8 - 38.0
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Bairstow shouldn't be in the top 5 - he maybe one of our best batters but quite simply he doesn't do well for whatever reason up there -
Test Average in each position - Overall it is - 40.5
4 - 15.0
5 - 30.1
6 - 45.9
7 - 46.5
8 - 38.0
This. 7 for Bairstow please, unless he hands the gloves over to someone else.
Really it's about time we picked a future prospect to bat at 5, the kind of player who's fairly young and has a long term future higher up the order at 3/4. Give someone the chance to get settled in to test matches before they make the step up to batting at 3. Not sure who the best candidates would be right now, Bell-Drummond/Northeast/Westley perhaps.
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Boycott has bairstow at 7 keepers position and Ali at 8
He says neither will like it but crack on and that's that.
Selectors have to do the best thing for the team.
I have batting next test
Cook
Stoneman
Root-step up he is our best and breaks up left/right hand
Jennings
Balance if fit
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Broad
Ball
Anderson.
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This. 7 for Bairstow please, unless he hands the gloves over to someone else.
Really it's about time we picked a future prospect to bat at 5, the kind of player who's fairly young and has a long term future higher up the order at 3/4. Give someone the chance to get settled in to test matches before they make the step up to batting at 3. Not sure who the best candidates would be right now, Bell-Drummond/Northeast/Westley perhaps.
If bairstow was a specialist batsman Ben foakes would be in the frame maybe
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Why is our test side suddenly full of debutants and not-quite-readies when after India we thought we had a team sorted?
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I agree with giving batsman a chance but I really don't think Jennings and Ballance are good enough. We want to win this series so I think changes have to be made. We only really won the first test because the South Africans were so poor. I'd change Jennings, Balance and Dawson (would love Woakes in for Wood too but fitness prevents this).
Stoneman has to come in I think to open with Cook and ideally Root move to 3. I would then bring in Hales to bat in the middle order as he can do it at international level and deserves another chance just not at the top of the order (and will do better than Balance whatever). I'd either then stick with Jennings or give Westley a go who looks a good player every time I have seen him:
Cook
Stoneman
Root
Hales
Westley/Jennings
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Broad
Wood
Anderson
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Where's the random support for Hales come from from a few on this forum? Struggled in his first stint in test cricket and now struggled in the few games he's played in division 2 of the county championship this season.
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Ballance set to miss the 3rd Test with a broken finger
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/07/18/gary-ballance-miss-third-south-africa-test-broken-finger/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/07/18/gary-ballance-miss-third-south-africa-test-broken-finger/)
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Ballance set to miss the 3rd Test with a broken finger
[url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/07/18/gary-ballance-miss-third-south-africa-test-broken-finger/[/url] ([url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/07/18/gary-ballance-miss-third-south-africa-test-broken-finger/[/url])
so looks like Stoneman will definitely open with Cook and Jennings to 3.
So just a decision on what to do lower down with the make up of the team - i really hope that Bairstow and Mo drop down and we play an extra batter - whoever it is!
But something tells me that Stoneman will be the only new batter at the Oval ;) :(
And if they are going to play 2 spinners surely they must look at Crane soon - if they aren't convinced by Rashid
But again something tells me Dawson will be playing ;) :(
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Ballance fit to play at th Oval.
I've given up trying to select a team! :) Stoneman will come in but for who? If we leave out Dawson the two spinners plan is busted before it starts.
Presuming ballance and Jennings don't get dropped Stoneman is going to have to come in for a bowler.....
I don't think like @six and out England want to make too many changes-we generally don't
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Ballance fit to play at th Oval.
I've given up trying to select a team! :) Stoneman will come in but for who? If we leave out Dawson the two spinners plan is busted before it starts.
Presuming ballance and Jennings don't get dropped Stoneman is going to have to come in for a bowler.....
I don't think like @six and out England want to make too many changes-we generally don't
Ballance not fit. It's broken and he's definitely out of the oval test.
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Rockkkkkkyyyyyyyyyyy
-
Rockkkkkkyyyyyyyyyyy
Haha!
Guardian says ballance only has a slight fracture, and is ready to play....
I guess this is the last chance, if he is out someone else gets a chance and then you never know.
Who would of thought after watching Hameed in India he would have such a poor run they cannot pick him(at the moment).
Bayliss needs to wake up and smell the linseed oil a bit, some of the quotes and interviews lately have been very odd.
Someone has to convince Ali he is the best we got so he is the main spinner, bairstow as good as he is cannot bat higher than 7 because we ain't that good and need an extra batsman. And skipper or not skipper Root has to bat 3-and be told to.
Jeez.....so much to sort out!. Maybe grumpy @Alvaro was right after all....we really are not that good....
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BBC saying he's deffo missing the Oval test but could be ok for Old Trafford.
I'm with you Carlo, I'd like Bairstow back at 7 and Mo at 8 and a batter in at 5, makes us look a lot more solid imo, must affect other teams too knowing that we have such capable batsmen coming in at 7 & 8
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going to throw Jo Denley in the mix, played international cricket before has no doubt matured a bit and like stonemam and many others in the form of his life, plus he is a Kent player.
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going to throw Jo Denley in the mix, played international cricket before has no doubt matured a bit and like stonemam and many others in the form of his life, plus he is a Kent player.
You are almost as deluded as the kent fans on the official facebook group mate. Although you are not the first person to suggest this to me the last week
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Who would of thought after watching Hameed in India he would have such a poor run they cannot pick him(at the moment).
He played a red ball 2nd team game yesterday and got 100. OK its only a 2s game but the only other batsman to get runs was Shiv.
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I hope that Stoneman can be given a decent run if he opens. And this would allow Jennings to drop to 3 where I think he would look better.
Still Root at 4 and would be nice to give Ballance a decent run batting at 5. Stokes is always at 6 and Bairstow and Ali at 7 and 8 . When Woakes comes back he will be 9 and Broad at 10, with the master blocker Anderson at 11.
Shame Hameed is not on form this season - but he is very young and I suspect he will have a mountain of chances to bat at 2 for England soon enough.
So with Woakes out for a while longer then sounds like Ball (isn't Wood possibly injured too) will get to bowl. And if Ballance has his poorly finger then as everyone has stated, we need someone to bat at 5! I am sure that Bairstow or Ali would jump at the chance but if keeping and batting at 7 is good enough for de Kock and indeed the God that is Gilchrist, then it's good enough for Bairstow! And like Ali at 8 as he adds some real solidity to batting down there!
So who at 5 then? I don't suppose that Sangakkara has qualified to play for England yet? ;)
Personally I would like to see someone who has good enough technique to open the batting in the future or if one of the openers got injured! Also would need to be young! Anyone below 40 seems young to me! But I guess someone in their mid twenties would hopefully be mature enough to step up but young enough to be around this level for 10 years if they do well! Also needs to be on good current form (otherwise Hameed would have been brought in already!) and preferably play in Div 1 rather than Div 2. Also needs to have the endless patience and discipline to leave decent ball after decent ball and yet score runs quite consistently!
I know that Robson has been mentioned as a possible.
But does anyone else think that Rory Burns may be a decent option to bring in at 5? Or is it just me?
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Agreed that if they pick Stoneman they've got to give him a prolonged go and not just bin him like they have done with the likes of Lyth.
I would still like to see one of the Currans to be given a go instead of Jake Ball.
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Its a balancing act isn't it - at the moment we all seem to feel that we are a bowler heavy - especially if they are going for an extra containing options, Dawson, instead of an attacking one such as Rashid, Crane, Plunkett or even Sam Curran for a change of angle.
If we drop Ballance (who, for the record, has not actually batted badly thus far - his dismissals have been balls that did a bit apart from that first one) and Jennings now, we just got he the start of the same long road without ever really coming to a point where we understand whether they are good enough or not. So, the ideal solution is an opener in, Jennings at 3, Ballance 5, Bairstow 6, Stokes 7.
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Ballance is out injured Manor so seems a dead cert Stoneman will come in for the Oval. Gary should be ok for the test after thou.
Whether they pick GB for the last test I suppose is not certain at all. I would and have him at 5 because he is not a 3 and needs to bat lower down.
If we have cook , Stoneman and Jennings we at actually going back to having 3 openers like we used to way back when. I don't think it's a bad policy at all. that means Root stays 4 and 4 left handers in the top 5).
We have to pick the best top 5 whether they are right or left handed I reckon.
Tom westley being touted around a lot in the papers as a possible.....
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Buttler played as a batsman in india
That ship sailed? He out of sorts? Or was he just lucky they had sod all batsman in India to get the gigg?
Also no one's mentioned KP yet.......... Got runs for Surrey tonight. Lol
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Also no one's mentioned KP yet.......... Got runs for Surrey tonight. Lol
Absolutely not advocating his return in anyway now but can't help but feel this England side would have been a lot more successful with Root & Pieterson between 3-5 the last few years.
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Doubt Stokes will move from 6! And I agree that Ballance hasn't been bad but feel that he could be excellent batting at 5!
It'll be interesting to see if they only swap Ballance with his broken finger out for Stoneman, or whether they decide that we don't need as many bowlers! In England I personally think that Dawson, Ali and Root is one too many spinners. I would love to see...
Cook
Stoneman
Jennings
Root
Robson/Westley/Burns
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Broad
Ball
Anderson
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Dawson isn't in the Hampshire t20 squad for tomorrow or Friday. Suggests he's at least retaining a place in the test squad.
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Yes Dawson looks set to remain and one change in the batting. England don't tend to make too many changes.
I really really don't want to write this but I think we are going to lose at the Oval and the new dawn is not going to be a dawn at all. Can't believe I wrote that I'm a die hard optimistic supporter normally.
:o
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I'm always a bit surprised reading these posts that England supporters (and I am one) are so shocked that we struggled in the last test. In truth we have been struggling for a while now. We have a world class opening batsman in Cook, we have a world class number 4 in Root, we have a world class number 6 in Stokes, we have two good all rounders in Bairstow/Ali and we have two world class opening bowlers in 'home' matches in Broad and Anderson. The problem areas are pretty obvious:
1. No successful partner for Cook.
2. We need a number 3.
3. We need a number 5.
4. We need a third seamer.
5. We need to find a top spinner or we just have Ali + Root or Westely or Patel or a batsman who bowls spin.
Do we really need to play 2 spinners in England? How many times have 2 spinners (who were English) ripped through the opposition here? Swann was an absolute 'worldy' and a one off for us. If we can't find two top class spinners then for the love of God don't try!!! Play another batsman or play a good seamer (we are in England after all).
I'm also a bit surprised that nobody is suggesting playing a wicket keeper batsman like Foakes and batting Bairstow bat at 5?
Just thinking outside the box here and this is controversial but part of me thinks that we would be better identifying 30 English qualified cricketers and in some way rotating them around the formats. Does Root really need to play T20's for England, can Ben Stokes and Mo Ali play all formats all the time? Lets identify the best 30 cricketers across all formats for the next 5 years and give them some exposure to international cricket. Reality check - we have never won a major 50 over competition, we have never dominated test cricket since the 1950's, we have won 1 T20 world cup and never won the Champions trophy. We are not a highly successful cricketing nation. Something has to change. We have improved in white ball cricket but I've not see a major improvement in tests. If there was a test world championship does anyone think we would really win?
We have too many professional cricketers and too many non-English qualified players playing. We have too many first class cricket grounds and this isn't sustainable financial in the longer term. Nobody watches domestic county championship cricket, it's not televised often and doesn't excite the public. There is too much meaningless cricket. Sometimes less is more. Why do there need to be 18 first class counties? Why can't we have 8 or 10? I want to see Broad Vs Cook and Wood Vs Root not Wayne Madsen Vs Joe Leach (no disrespect to those). One overseas only in 4 day cricket and 2 overseas in one day cricket.
Let's be honest with our team and face the fact - we are not that great, are we?
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Westley and Malan named in the squad with Westley set to bat at 3, potential for Malan to bat at 5 if they decide on playing an extra batsman.
https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/440466 (https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/440466)
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The selectors need sacking. All of them.
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Westley is fair enough.
Malan over Stoneman though? Looks unlikely he'll play anyway.
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Yeah I feel bad for Stoneman but Westley is probably equally deserving of a shot, I'd rather have another batsman at 5 but I think it'll be a straight swap Ballance for Westley with everyone else as they were.
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Westley is fair enough.
Malan over Stoneman though? Looks unlikely he'll play anyway.
My thoughts exactly!!
Stoneman has been quality and should be in there!
Don't mind Westley but why do the selectors seem to insist on looking at these players (Malan) who bat in ODI and think they are the best option to Test cricket?? :(
Malan is a decent player and looks in decent form, but the likes of Stoneman is on fantastic form and surely deserves the nod?
Anyway, rant over!
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I can only assume they dont think Stoneman is up to international cricket yet
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Blimey...bit surprised but Westley has been scoring runs consistently for a while
I'm half thinking they have a specialist 3 because root won't move from 4?
I could be completely wrong of course!
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I can only assume they dont think Stoneman is up to international cricket yet
A bloke who's averaging 58 odd on an Oval deck where the head coach himself hasn't even watched him. County runs mean squat all nowadays, it's a flawed system.
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so the team will be
Cook
Jennings
Westley
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Dawson/Malan (if malan he bats 5 with everyone dropping a place)
Wood/TRJ
Broad
Anderson
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My thoughts exactly!!
Stoneman has been quality and should be in there!
Don't mind Westley but why do the selectors seem to insist on looking at these players (Malan) who bat in ODI and think they are the best option to Test cricket?? :(
Malan is a decent player and looks in decent form, but the likes of Stoneman is on fantastic form and surely deserves the nod?
Anyway, rant over!
Malan is decent but bayliss likes one day players in the test side.our one day cricket has been transformed but is that the right way to select?
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A bloke who's averaging 58 odd on an Oval deck where the head coach himself hasn't even watched him. County runs mean squat all nowadays, it's a flawed system.
I was listening to the sky sports podcast and a few of them were talking about selection and used examples of Vaughan and Trescothick as examples of players who didnt have bucket load of runs (MV averged 30 in CC cricket apparently) but they saw something in them that they could handle playing international cricket.
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Malan is decent but bayliss likes one day players in the test side.our one day cricket has been transformed but is that the right way to select?
It would be the right way to select IF there were no better options available! But I still consider Stoneman a better option.
I actually consider Burns or Robson a better option than Malan in Test cricket if I am honest. But I just hope Malan proves me wrong and scores a biggy!
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Got to feel for Stoneman. Still dont think Jennings is ready yet and he's still getting a shot. What more does the lad have to do
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Can only think that both Malan and Westley are going to play which means they didn't want to get rid of Jennings as well as that would have been 3 large changes and would have forced them to admit they were wrong.
This way they can just add the extra batsman at 5 and claim it to be strengthening the batting for this series.
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Got to feel for Stoneman. Still dont think Jennings is ready yet and he's still getting a shot. What more does the lad have to do
Absolutely..do you think England don't want three left handers in the top three?
If so....we'll...I'm not sure that's right
Jennings gut feeling is he don't have the game for the top-maybe filling time till Hameed is back
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On a positive note I'm sure Stoneman will get his opportunity to open the batting in the Ashes this winter...good luck with that!
Hopefully he will be given a run against the Windies but you would assume that would be a one sided series and runs should be easier to come by for all England batsmen.
Malan is a poor selection, ODI's fine but Test matches? What more has Stoneman got to do?
Brilliant news for Mildenhall's own Tom Westley though :D
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I could possible see them going with:
Cook
Jennings
Westley
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Broad
Wood
Anderson
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On a positive note I'm sure Stoneman will get his opportunity to open the batting in the Ashes this winter...good luck with that!
Hopefully he will be given a run against the Windies but you would assume that would be a one sided series and runs should be easier to come by for all England batsmen.
Malan is a poor selection, ODI's fine but Test matches? What more has Stoneman got to do?
Brilliant news for Mildenhall's own Tom Westley though :D
Like they did with Lyth last time?
Chucked him straight in againse NZ and OZ then on your bike thanks for coming after playing two of the better bowling sides in the world at the time
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I could possible see them going with:
Cook
Jennings
Westley
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Broad
Wood
Anderson
agree with this except TRJ for wood, get wood back to durham and taking wickets again, hasnt looked like taking any this series which is a shame!
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ECB selectors heads have gone, what a joke to pick Malan.
They've also said that they'll be no debutants come the Ashes so Stoneman has to either play against the Windies or not at all. What has the guy to do to get into the squad, become south African?
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Like they did with Lyth last time?
Chucked him straight in againse NZ and OZ then on your bike thanks for coming after playing two of the better bowling sides in the world at the time
Difficult isn't it? Do you pick someone against a lesser bowling attack to give them some exposure to test cricket knowing that they might excel against a weaker bowling attack or do you throw them in at the deep end against a top bowling attack in the biggest test match atmosphere.
I know if I was lucky enough to play test cricket I would rather face the WI at home and get some test match cricket under my belt before I went out and played in Australia.
Tough being a selector but you can't help but wonder if Stoneman will ever get a chance. Perhaps they just don't like the look of him (oh wait TB can't be bothered to go and watch him).
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I hope Malan is an inspired Trescothick / Vaughan style pick - an average county performer with the balls for Test Cricket.
So many so called 'talented' run machines in county cricket cannot make the grade at Test level.
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I personally think malan is a decent pick his average in all forms is decent. I think a decent selection would have changed jennings for Stoneman, also my worry is if they do pick TRJ is will be a very similar attack so wood would get the nod if fully fit. Also Bairstow to bat above Stokes due to form.
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Problem is any player picked against tenth ranked Windies won't tell you if they are good enough to tour Aus.
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Yeah anyone who they are seriously looking at for the winter should surely be given ago against WI at the back end of the summer.
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the talk of who to allow people to make a debut against is baloney, Trott did ok making debut vs ashes in a must win game if i recall correctly, stokes also made his debut in aus and im pretty sure he's turned out ok!
if theyre good enough to represent england then pick them it doesnt matter if its SA, WI or AUS we still have to play our best team!
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Quote from Aggers on the bbc sport website re: Malan
Malan is an interesting selection. If you look at how England played at Trent Bridge, everyone was saying knuckle down, but they have gone for someone whose career is built around T20 cricket.
He has had a decent first-class summer and England are looking at him to bat after Moeen Ali.
Which suggests Dawson out for Malan leaving the order as
1. Cook
2. Jennings
3. Westley
4. Root
5. Bairstow
6. Stokes
7. Ali
8. Malan
9. Broad
10. Anderson
11. TRJ/Wood
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Can't see Malan batting 8 :)
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Quote from Aggers on the bbc sport website re: Malan
Which suggests Dawson out for Malan leaving the order as
1. Cook
2. Jennings
3. Westley
4. Root
5. Bairstow
6. Stokes
7. Ali
8. Malan
9. Broad
10. Anderson
11. TRJ/Wood
Sure the following looks like a stronger lineup??
1. Cook
2. Stoneman
3. Jennings
4. Root
5. Westley
6. Stokes
7. Bairstow
8. Ali
9. Broad
10. Anderson
11. TRJ/Wood
Shame - with Stoneman instead of Malan, the bowling is the same strength, but the batting looks stronger and even offers Jennings the chance to bat at 3 (where he looks stronger), makes the top 5 look stronger and means that Stokes, Bairstow and Ali will be making a crazy strong 6, 7 and 8!!
But it's not going to happen so will just go and make myself a cuppa!
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Can't see Malan batting 8 :)
That was my immediate thought but if what aggers says is correct then unless they are going to push Ali up (and stokes and/or bairstow down) i can only see him batting at 8
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Sure the following looks like a stronger lineup??
1. Cook
2. Stoneman
3. Jennings
4. Root
5. Westley
6. Stokes
7. Bairstow
8. Ali
9. Broad
10. Anderson
11. TRJ/Wood
Shame - with Stoneman instead of Malan, the bowling is the same strength, but the batting looks stronger and even offers Jennings the chance to bat at 3 (where he looks stronger), makes the top 5 look stronger and means that Stokes, Bairstow and Ali will be making a crazy strong 6, 7 and 8!!
But it's not going to happen so will just go and make myself a cuppa!
I agree it looks stronger.
Where did Buttler bat in India, wasnt it a similar position to where Malan is predicted to be?
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To be honest it doesn't sound like Aggers know much more about him than baylis, he's a decent all around batsman 8500 first class runs at 38 with a sr of 52. Im not sure its the right call but better than all the Roy and hales suggestions. Jennings has got lucky from one great season and hameed struggling worse than him this year, if hed carried on as he had last year it wouldn't have been an issue.
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I agree it looks stronger.
Where did Buttler bat in India, wasnt it a similar position to where Malan is predicted to be?
True but ones a batsman the other isnt, what was Trevs comments about batting 8 as a batsman.
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Hammeed hit a ton the day after England lost, if he hits another is a recall on he cards? I'd say possibly if Jennings continues to struggle
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Stoneman really has to going nuts! Pretty much everyone in the country is saying he is the next man up apart from the selectors (and maybe Root).
I just wonder if Jennings has actually got a reprieve because of Ballance's injury and therefore England don't want to make more changes - If Ballance was fit would Jennings have been out and Stoneman be opening at the Oval i wonder??
Malan is an interesting selection - is it just lip service to all saying there are too many bowlers? what happens if the Oval looks like it is going to be a bunsen?
Westley deserves a chance after decent seasons and 100 against SA for the Lions.
Also could we see another change with TRJ for Wood? - Wood has been quite poor in the 1st 2 tests
@alexhilly1492 - Regarding Hameed - the 100 was against MCC YC's for Lancs 2nd's - if he didn't get 100 he really would be in trouble :(
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Ah ok I knew I saw he got runs on twitter, still a co fidence booster!
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the talk of who to allow people to make a debut against is baloney, Trott did ok making debut vs ashes in a must win game if i recall correctly, stokes also made his debut in aus and im pretty sure he's turned out ok!
if theyre good enough to represent england then pick them it doesnt matter if its SA, WI or AUS we still have to play our best team!
Yes of course we should Play our best team buts let's see what players can do against a good test team first and at home for every Trott there's failures.
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Malan can't play in the final 11..that would mean Mo bats 8 and no dawson.
It may well turn next test so Dawson again
Can't see any other team...we would have 8 batsmen otherwise.
:)
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No way Malan would play and bat 8,that would just be ridiculous. I'm disappointed Dawson is still in there rather than Crane or Rashid.
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Malan can't play in the final 11..that would mean Mo bats 8 and no dawson.
It may well turn next test so Dawson again
Can't see any other team...we would have 8 batsmen otherwise.
:)
I don't mind Mo batting at 8 at all.... Bairstow should be at 7 (where he has scored all his runs) .... Stokes 6.... with 5 Batsman above him.
That leaves 3 main seamers - more than enough bowling when you have Stokes and Mo (and Root).
Although i do think Dawson will play as you say :(
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I don't mind Mo batting at 8 at all.... Bairstow should be at 7 (where he has scored all his runs) .... Stokes 6.... with 5 Batsman above him.
That leaves 3 main seamers - more than enough bowling when you have Stokes and Mo (and Root).
Although i do think Dawson will play as you say :(
I agree, if Malan plays it has to be:
Cook
Jennings
Westley
Root
Malan
Stokes
YJB
Mo
Broad
Wood/TRJ
Anderson
That being said I think it will actually be:
Cook
Jennings
Westley
Root
YJB
Stokes
Mo
Dawson
Broad
Wood
Anderson
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So Westley is also a spinner in the same context as Root is.
Therefore we have Ali and Root who can turn their arms!
And then Westley who's bowling stats in First Class and List A are both considerably better than Root's stats!
So we have Ali who is bowling very well indeed at the moment!! Then you have Root who can be used to hold an end and take the odd wicket.
Now we are likely to have Westley as well, who (in stats at least) looks a better spin bowler than Root.
So why do we need another spinner in Dawson??
Don't get me wrong - I was born in Hampshire and therefore all Hampshire players are superhuman as far as I'm concerned!
But I am still confused as to why we would need Ali and Dawson with Root and Westley who can all bowl spin!!
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If you were born in Hampshire that is more than the majority of their squad.
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So why do we need another spinner in Dawson??
Because he is a left-armer.
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Can't see Malan batting 8 :)
Absolutely will not happen.
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What more has Stoneman got to do?
Stoneman is definitely the new Jennings.
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Malan bowls a bit of filthy spin too
...................just sayin'
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Malan bowls a bit of filthy spin too
He's been a consistent performer with the bat in county cricket down the years, much in the same way as Mark Stoneman has.
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He's been a consistent batsman in county cricket down the years, much in the same way as Mark Stoneman has.
In the middle order yes he has for Middlesex. Stoneman is a specialist opener which is what we need.
England are awash with strokeplayers, they can't all get in . Someone has to do the hard yards, teams that win cricket matches still follow a similar format.
Look at Elgar for South Africa, pretty ugly, bat don't come down straight etc etc. Gutsy player and very valuable. I like him.
He has value to the team and I bet he is appreciated by his team mates and management. Amla? Different class in my book.
I went to SA v India ICC just to see him bat.
I write this as an old opening batsman(sacked in recent years by the 'selectors') :)
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Anyone going Friday? Grab a beer?
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Jennings has been picked to open the innings. That was what everyone wanted, wasn't it?
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Anyone going Friday? Grab a beer?
The thought of this selection panel having a few beers together scares me somewhat. ;)
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The thought of this selection panel having a few beers together scares me somewhat. ;)
Churchy can bowl a bit of off spin by the sounds of it if he takes his kit he might get a game.
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(http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah106/alexhill11/92041477-AA80-4A10-8FE0-B569575FFECA_zpsaszwbykg.png) (http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/alexhill11/media/92041477-AA80-4A10-8FE0-B569575FFECA_zpsaszwbykg.png.html)
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See! Bring Burns in!! ;)
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If the wider audience got to see Burns I think we'd see a sudden spike in one of the most awkward looking stances in cricket. That double hundred against Hampshire was outstanding though, pure graft and digging in that got Surrey out of a losing position.
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If the wider audience got to see Burns I think we'd see an sudden spike in one of the most awkward looking stances in cricket. That double hundred against Hampshire was outstanding though, pure graft and digging in that got Surrey out of a losing position.
Has a very closed bat face. And he does that thing where his pads are very low on his shoes...
Seems like a good summer for Gunn and Moore sponsored players. Their new stickers don't show up as well on the TV though!
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And talking of Gunn and Moore sponsored players... Surely the in-form, 'stronger batting' alternative to Dawson ought to be Samit?
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I seem to be alone in thinking that Malan is a damn good shout?
The word around the county scene is that he is one of the very best players of pace - talked about in a sentence with Bairstow, Pietersen and Bell. And that is what we will need down under in six months time.
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I seem to be alone in thinking that Malan is a damn good shout?
The word around the county scene is that he is one of the very best players of pace - talked about in a sentence with Bairstow, Pietersen and Bell. And that is what we will need down under in six months time.
Never watched him bat that much previously, but he looked so so comfortable against Morkel/Morris in the t20 so I'd happily believe that! T20 and tests may be a completely different game but he certainly made an impression, got to count for something.
Also, Malan/Stoneman/Westley actually all have really similar first class records so I see no problem at all in picking the two middle order bats for the two middle order slots available.
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So happy for the Westley family. I played a little bit with and a fair bit against Tom whilst growing up, and against the wider Westley family for many years in our league until their teams relegation down the pyramid in the last 2 or 3 seasons. We were always terrified that Tom would turn up to play if he fancied a hit! Even without Tom the Westley family were a challenge to play against. I still have nightmares of his dad Adie running in to bowl at me, a series of play and misses, streaky edges and generally being made to look like a novice with no arms before the inevitable bowled or nick was usually how it went! Huge man with a big bristling moustache, hands like buckets that made the ball look like a marble.
We still joke now when a bowler complains about a league ball being awful and not shining/swinging etc that 'Adie Westley could probably swing an orange so stop your moaning!'
Adie is also responsible for the biggest six most of my teammates have ever seen, the ball is rumoured to still be in orbit now, 8 or 9 years after it left his bat.
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I seem to be alone in thinking that Malan is a damn good shout?
The word around the county scene is that he is one of the very best players of pace - talked about in a sentence with Bairstow, Pietersen and Bell. And that is what we will need down under in six months time.
I've no problem with Malan's call up, though I suspect he won't play. Samit for Dawson might have strengthened the batting without altering the balance. But I can understand people thinking he might have had enough chances already.
I seem to remember Bairstow being found out by pace in his early days as an England player?
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Mark Stoneman missed out on selection because he is left handed England reluctant to have left handers batting one two and three against Morkal and philander
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Believe you are correct and the fact Bayliss hasn't seen him with not help.
I think myself picking a top order based on whether you are right or left handed is fundamentally flawed
Losing confidence in this test series as we go on, don't think England will turn this round. SA are useful and battle away pretty well
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Agree Carlo right or lefthanded shouldnt matter you pick your best
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Crucial test starting tomorrow are we really playing 8 batsmen to leave the bowling one short? Can Dawson play and turn it round...or just turn it....what will rabada say to stokes this time?
All questions no answers
Personally I fear we are not coming out of the Oval with a win
Hope I'm wrong but the batting too reliant on cook and new skips
:)
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Looks like Wood is out and Toblerone makes his debut
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Looks like Wood is out and Toblerone makes his debut
A rare outing for Newbery?
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Dom cork , James Kurtley, and way back to gatting?
Cant remember any other Newbery users off the top of my head
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From the England camp Malan included in the squad as he he scores runs with character
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So looks like it will be....
Cook, Jennings, Westley, Root, Malan,
Stokes, Bairstow, Ali,
R-Jones, Broad, Anderson
if the wicket is normal English wicket or swap Malan out for Dawson in if it looks like a spinners wicket?
I still would have preferred Cook, Stoneman, Jennings, Root, Westley, Stokes, Bairstow, Ali, R-Jones, Broad, Anderson to be honest!
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England Test Series results since 2014
Sri Lanka, lost 1-0 (H) (2 test series)
India, won 3-1 (H) (5)
West Indies, drew 1-1 (A) (3)
New Zealand, drew 1-1 (H) (2)
Australia, won 3-2 (H) (5)
Pakistan, lost 2-0 (A) (3)
South Africa, won 2-1 (A) (4)
Sri Lanka, won 2-0 (H) (2)
Pakistan, drew 2-2 (H) (4)
Bangladesh, drew 1-1 (A) (2)
India, lost 4-0 (A) (5)
· Four series wins from 11. Those in highlighted in bold are those which are, frankly, embarrassing for a Big Three side, a number of those losses were where 100 overs have not been completed in both innings combined.
· 15 wins and 16 losses in 37 Tests...
I fully expect South Africa to win. England are bang average, and moving one or deck chairs around will make little difference. There is just a paucity in international quality batting (and bowling) in county cricket. Root is the last debutant batsmen to be truly worth his place and not be so technically deficient in one area that he has been completely worked out after 7 games.
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Dom cork , James Kurtley, and way back to gatting?
Cant remember any other Newbery users off the top of my head
Kudos stickers don't show up well on the telly.
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Must have been a case for replacing Wood with Footitt? Even with being homesick, he's bowled supremely well on this ground in recent times.
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I seem to remember Bairstow being found out by pace in his early days as an England player?
He had significant issues with one bowler - Kemar Roach - who had a habit of making his bouncer jag back in to the right hander. YJB has made technical changes since then, and even that same summer was thrashing Morkel and Steyn around Sarf London.
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He had significant issues with one bowler - Kemar Roach - who had a habit of making his bouncer jag back in to the right hander. YJB has made technical changes since then, and even that same summer was thrashing Morkel and Steyn around Sarf London.
Hmmm. Obviously things are dufferent now and he made technical changes. But I don't remember too many cries of "but YJB is one of the best players of pace in the country" around here.
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God CRICINFO's new look is driving me mad!!!!
Where's the old text commentary bit with all the pre-match banter from the commentators - I can't find it?
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Fear not my friend, I've found the link;
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/10718/commentary/1031441/England-vs-South-Africa-3rd-Test-South-Africa-tour-of-England-2017 (http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/10718/commentary/1031441/England-vs-South-Africa-3rd-Test-South-Africa-tour-of-England-2017)
@FattusCattus
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Dumbfounded by Malan playing.
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God CRICINFO's new look is driving me mad!!!!
Where's the old text commentary bit with all the pre-match banter from the commentators - I can't find it?
Everyone on Reddit has been pretty mad about it. Jarrod Kimber did an AMA last week and didn't even appear to like it much either...
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Thank Fudge for that - I thought I was going mad!
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So KP is saving rhinos, the ECB have decided to get stuck in with saving oceans. But which one's better? There's only one way to find out!
What on Earth is that on Warney's face...
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Hmmm. Obviously things are dufferent now and he made technical changes. But I don't remember too many cries of "but YJB is one of the best players of pace in the country" around here.
As I remember the cries were more 'Why does YJB keep playing across straight ones from pace bowlers'! Which was what led to his stance change.
Glad Malan is playing, hopefully that's the end of the 6 bowlers nonsense.
Cricinfo's new site is the worst website reformat I've ever seen. Been done 'to make it better for mobile' supposedly, but it's even worse on there!
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Any links for live-streaming?
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Any links for live-streaming?
google cricfree
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Malan in too blimey we got some depth...on paper
Let's hope we get over 300!
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google cricfree
Thanks a lot mate
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Cricinfo's new site is the worst website reformat I've ever seen. Been done 'to make it better for mobile' supposedly, but it's even worse on there!
This!!! It's utter poo-cakes! Cricinfo is the best service for text commentary and updates, as well as cricket news and this new layout feels far less user-friendly and is confusing for us old farts (which must be the majority that use it!)
Aaaargghhhh!!
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How nice is the South African One Day. warm up and practice kit compared to England's? How did NB get it so wrong for England?
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Good luck the debut players were aving a bat early doors
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Lol walking wicket Jennings goes for another 0.
Absolute joke of a selection.
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Hi I'm Mark Sto....oh
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Here we go.... I'm just gonna say it.. mark stoneman for the 4th test? Or West Indies series?
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I think he's been unlucky not to be capped so far
In for the last test I reckon.
I'm not sure why the fuss about Jennings in the first place,he had a good season before yes but not a solid record
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Jaysus the new cricinfo is crap on my PC, I'm stuck on 4 overs gone.
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Jaysus the new cricinfo is crap on my PC, I'm stuck on 4 overs gone.
Agreed, I preferred the previous layout. Much more compact
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What a glorious shot from Westley to get your first Test runs!!
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Jaysus the new cricinfo is crap on my PC, I'm stuck on 4 overs gone.
You have to keep refreshing I'm afraid :(
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33,8,3,0,0 are his last scores...... bar the 33 looks like my season!
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Will I get shouted at if I say I actually quite like the new format...
This page is working perfectly for me, and our PCs are restricted to pretty much everything!
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/10718/game/1031441/England-vs-South-Africa-3rd-Test-South-Africa-tour-of-England-2017 (http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/10718/game/1031441/England-vs-South-Africa-3rd-Test-South-Africa-tour-of-England-2017)
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My season has gone like this...
0,30,0,42
I am expecting a duck in my next game.
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Will I get shouted at if I say I actually quite like the new format...
This page is working perfectly for me, and our PCs are restricted to pretty much everything!
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/10718/game/1031441/England-vs-South-Africa-3rd-Test-South-Africa-tour-of-England-2017[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/10718/game/1031441/England-vs-South-Africa-3rd-Test-South-Africa-tour-of-England-2017[/url])
OH SHUT UP ADAM!!!!
(There you are)
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Think westley looks pretty class at the moment looks like a good selection. Jennings on the other hand...
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Looks very assured and like he belongs. Nice technique too
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One swallow does not a summer make.................
(but it does make for a good 5 minutes in the pub car park!) :D
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Hmmmm, not great returns from Jennings against Philander!!
According to the stats guy Philander bowling at Jennings this series:
Balls bowled by Philander at Jennings: 23
Runs scored off those balls: 2
Number of times Jennings out to Philander: 3
I can almost imagine the comments being said as Jennings walks out to bat!!
"Here comes your bunny Vernon!" ;)
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Boycs says technically Jennings has too many holes
Personally I think unless you are exceptionally gifted like Lara the average test player it's more your mental approach
There's a big jump from county to test many don't make it to that level and do well
Cook one of my heroes..he just gets over most hurdles
One of our best ever
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Big fan of Westley. He's out now but he looked very well-organised at the crease, had all the shots and could easily accelerate when he wanted. Looks like a great selection to me!
Jennings looks shot mentally, sadly. Probably another debutant in the next test.
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God CRICINFO's new look is driving me mad!!!!
Where's the old text commentary bit with all the pre-match banter from the commentators - I can't find it?
The new look is absolutely worse. I used to love reading the comments though I never wrote one. Now nobody seems to write any and the UI is not really user-friendly.
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Westley gone... looked good for 25 but just seen dismissal, seemed to be driving to mid on to away swinger outside off, I think if he was hitting to mid off he wouldn't have edges although looked a lot better than ballance
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Not seen any of it but westley needs a run now all of this series and windies
I think we need another opener thou pretty quick.
Not everyone can play shots all round the park maybe a more solid player like stoneman would suit us?
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Obviously Jennings hasn't had a good run, but then again it has been against South Africa...
I'd be tempted to leave him in the side for the West Indies tests now South Africa are nearly out the way (one more innings!). Nothing builds confidence like scoring bucket loads against a shoddy bowling attack - might be all he needs.
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No doubt about it that SA probably has the best and most balanced bowling attacks in the World at the moment!
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Obviously Jennings hasn't had a good run, but then again it has been against South Africa...
I'd be tempted to leave him in the side for the West Indies tests now South Africa are nearly out the way (one more innings!). Nothing builds confidence like scoring bucket loads against a shoddy bowling attack - might be all he needs.
What about the Old Trafford test next week?
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SA haven't bowled well today. Really is doing a bit. Philander perfect for these conditions - lucky he had the trots and was off the field
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Well. This is going well :s
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Apparently batting is going to get harder!
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Round is applause plase for a cook.
When all is falling around him he stands firm
No one is playing that Yorker malan got thou
It's a bowlers game :)
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Round is applause plase for a cook.
When all is falling around him he stands firm
No one is playing that Yorker malan got thou
It's a bowlers game :)
Malan got a good cherry, just nice to see an England batsman not getting out going for a big drive. Although he only got 20odd I liked the look of Westley, didn't look out of place or bothered by the occasion.
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Playing the extra batsman looks a good call but England may well miss the second spinner when SA bat last.
Still think Rashid at the Oval would have been a good call.
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Playing the extra batsman looks a good call but England may well miss the second spinner when SA bat last.
Still think Rashid at the Oval would have been a good call.
Yes maybe but we cant play an extra batter and still have another spinner in that leaves 3 seamers including stokes
Sounds like the wicket is green so seamers will do the damage it appears
Glad westley looked good...we really do need to find a 3, Jennings is not the answer either
We seem to have more questions than answers at the moment
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Happy to see Cook doing well! I hope he goes on to break records! Benji should be the captain, Root should focus on records too.
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Yes maybe but we cant play an extra batter and still have another spinner in that leaves 3 seamers including stokes
Sounds like the wicket is green so seamers will do the damage it appears
Glad westley looked good...we really do need to find a 3, Jennings is not the answer either
We seem to have more questions than answers at the moment
England need another opener a number 3 bat
And a fourth seamer wicket taker Thinking ahead Without one how are England going to take 20 wickets a match to win in Aus.
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With Woakes in the side we look a far, far better team on paper. Any ideas when he'll be back?
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West Indies series and yeah allround he is missed
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With Woakes in the side we look a far, far better team on paper. Any ideas when he'll be back?
Couldn't agree more, Woakes nowadays is a top quality cricketer in all regards and looked like a brilliant Test match bowler last summer - a real miss. Very interested to see how Roland-Jones goes in this match, I've got a nagging feeling he'll do well. Can't help but feel that a look at a current England Test XI doesn't exactly strike fear into the hearts of oppositions - no-one apart from bog standard Division 2 bowlers are scared by the prospect of bowling to Keaton Jennings and, likewise, no-one is scared of facing someone like Liam Dawson.
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Watched the highlights. Jennings does look very out of form and and low on confidence - hope something clicks for him.
Wonder how much longer he will be given?
Westley looked promising! He needed to give himself time to get himself settled again after lunch but hopefully he will learn from that - was a decent ball though!! Root got squared up a bit by a decent ball too. Too early to have a look at Malan.....that was a beast of a ball and is the kind of ball you would have to be really unlucky to get :o
Fresh day tomorrow so see what occurs. A daddy hundred from Cook with a couple of batsmen backing him up would be nice! Hard to judge what a good score is on this wicket but really need to aim for 350 from here to make it competitive!
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It's been said a million times but it's a big jump from county to test cricket. England see something in Jennings, personally having watched him I really cannot see why he is highly rated.minimum foot movement and you have to be a very good player to get away with that. He reminds me of Marcus trescothick in style but tresco was exceptional and fearless, he really took on the bowlers.
Westley if you watching the same highlights I am holding said very early where to bowl to him. I hope he does well and learns an offside game to match his superb on side play. If he is bright and wants to learn (I'm sure he is) there's potential.
I really don't think myself England will move forward until we sort out the batting, for years we have been too reliant on two or three.
Hameed is the one to open with Cook, he's got to be the long term bet how would he go against an Aussie pace attack? Don't know.....he won't go on tour unless he plays in the windies series I don't think.
Tough call for the selectors, do they throw Hameed back in with no from behind him. He's a young player still.
Cook is a different class thou, you can only admire the bloke, old fashioned cricketer? Yes but who cares, it's about winning matches, 5 an over and all out in 50 overs we will lose matches.....
Just my thoughts :)
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@ppccopener I saw hammeed at Trent bridge in a 50 over game vs Notts who had jimmy pattinson bowling seriously quick and looked at ease against it! About the only lancs batsmen too, I wouldn't have a worry about him coping down under,
Westley to me looks the part, get woakes back and an opener (hammeed) in form and were there I reckon
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Not sure Jennings is lasting long enough to even know if he's out of form! Saw him bat early this season for a session on a pretty flat one at Gloucestershire and was a little surprised that he didn't look the class above that you'd expect for an England player in div 2. Starting to look inevitable he won't be in the test side much longer, hopefully this batting is the blip rather than last season's runs!
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Westley reminded me of Trott a little bit, looking to leave outside off stump and then work anything straight to leg, make the bowlers bowl at you. Think he just lost his head after the break a little, I was impressed with what I saw. Like others have said we don't know much about Malan, that was a ripper of a ball to get on debut.
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I'm a durham fan so I've seen quite a bit of Keaton, and to be honest it shocked me when he first got picked. He had s toe in the scrap heap then all of a sudden he had a cracking season and got fast tracked into the England side overtaking your lads like Stoneman who had been scoring over 1000 every season. He's never struck me as someone who was made for international cricket but probably would've been a very steady player for us in Div 2 if he had the chance.
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Couldn't agree more, Woakes nowadays is a top quality cricketer in all regards and looked like a brilliant Test match bowler last summer - a real miss. Very interested to see how Roland-Jones goes in this match, I've got a nagging feeling he'll do well. Can't help but feel that a look at a current England Test XI doesn't exactly strike fear into the hearts of oppositions - no-one apart from bog standard Division 2 bowlers are scared by the prospect of bowling to Keaton Jennings and, likewise, no-one is scared of facing someone like Liam Dawson.
Yes
Against a poor Sri Lanka team and at times a poor Pakistan what did he do in Asia in the winter.
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Ah.... Here we go again.
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Also for anyone who missed the Rabada yorker https://streamable.com/5t3zj
Phwooooooooooooooooar
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As I said....absolute BEAST of a ball!
The shape, line, length and swing were perfect!" Plus at 88mph, the pace was quick too!
I reckon that ball would have removed 90% of top order batsmen :o
So can't be too hard on Malan ;)
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There's something oddly satisfying about bringing a batsman down to his knees like that. Shades of Waqar in that one...
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That was the best ball of the series by any bowler I reckon!!
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Surely I'm not the only person who thinks a top order batsman should be able to keep out a Yorker. Yes it swung in and was quick but you've got to pick length better than that.
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Surely I'm not the only person who thinks a top order batsman should be able to keep out a Yorker. Yes it swung in and was quick but you've got to pick length better than that.
Given that's what Wasim used to do regularly to our batsmen, I think you are being a little harsh ;)
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If you adjust by going backward or forward you can play the Yorker go forward you can hit it anywhere what you don't do is let yourself get trapped on the crease.
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Yes
Against a poor Sri Lanka team and at times a poor Pakistan what did he do in Asia in the winter.
Woakes when he is injured has proved just how much he is missed
Respect your opinion but you have this player all wrong senior
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If you adjust by going backward or forward you can play the Yorker go forward you can hit it anywhere what you don't do is let yourself get trapped on the crease.
If you are tracking the line of a yorker and it appears to be missing off stump so you're setting up for a leave, then it comes back in on you late, that's much more difficult than it seems...
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Why can't we give the bowlers the credit he deserves?
For years a well bowled fast surprise Yorker has been a ball to get any batsmen out.
Thinking back to the days of waqar and wasim plus joel garner
Sometimes its not the batsmens fault he has just been done by a good ball
Sure in hindsight he may be closed off or not forward enough but it was a 90mph in swinging Yorker
well bowled sir well bowled
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Woakes when he is injured has proved just how much he is missed
Respect your opinion but you have this player all wrong senior
He is missed because England don't have a lot of choice its disapointing Woakes is not fit to play against SA but that said England are lacking a fourth seamer the quality of
Philander Morkal Anderson and Broad.
Anyway come Australia time will tell and hopefully I will be proved wrong.
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Thursday morning.
Johnny's bairstow - "this is disgraceful, ive earnt my number five, I should be up there. F### malan"
Thursday afternoon.
Johnny's bairstow - "thank you Malan! I was not keeping that out. Phew"
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Thursday morning.
Johnny's bairstow - "this is disgraceful, ive earnt my number five, I should be up there. F### malan"
Thursday afternoon.
Johnny's bairstow - "thank you Malan! I was not keeping that out. Phew"
Haha, funny old game isn't it
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It was a brute of a Yorker, And in your first test its not one you want to get early doors.
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Wouldn't have been the same ball to a right-hander?
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Wouldn't have been the same ball to a right-hander?
Root played inside the same ball at Trent Bridge, so yes
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Wouldn't have been the same ball to a right-hander?
Yep away swinger yorker don't work on right handers
.
https://youtu.be/_6ElZowzprk
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Thursday morning.
Johnny's bairstow - "this is disgraceful, ive earnt my number five, I should be up there. F### malan"
Thursday afternoon.
Johnny's bairstow - "thank you Malan! I was not keeping that out. Phew"
Funny thing is that Bairstow really needs to be content with batting at 7!
Firstly he is a keeper so seems to be best place for most keepers
Secondly the stats guy confirmed Bairstow's averages! Ok, so stats never tell the whole story and can make things look worse or better! But makes interesting reading! So Bairstow..........
Batting at 5: Average 30
Batting at 6: Average 45
Batting at 7: Average 48
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Thursday morning.
Johnny's bairstow - "this is disgraceful, ive earnt my number five, I should be up there. F### malan"
Thursday afternoon.
Johnny's bairstow - "thank you Malan! I was not keeping that out. Phew"
good one
Do think Bairstow is better than seven though and Malan should have played with a straight bat.
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good one
Do think Bairstow is better than seven though and Malan should have played with a straight bat.
At what stage was Malan's bat not straight? ???
And Bairstow has scored most of his runs at 7, why change what works just because "he looks better than a 7"
I like him coming in at 7 as he can clearly bat and he'd often be a bit of a counter punch if we were up against it (although that clearly didn't work in the last game...)
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Crikey! Had to go back a few years!
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Not sure how long until covers. In the OSC block 2, well by the beer tent...
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At what stage was Malan's bat not straight? ???
And Bairstow has scored most of his runs at 7, why change what works just because "he looks better than a 7"
I like him coming in at 7 as he can clearly bat and he'd often be a bit of a counter punch if we were up against it (although that clearly didn't work in the last game...)
When Malan tried to play the Yorker into the leg side and Bairstow has the skills to bat at five.
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Forgetting personalities compared to what's been seen this summer this England team does have a more balanced look to it
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Great innings by Cook. No worries about the "century" though, Cook played with his characteristic grit!
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Forgetting personalities compared to what's been seen this summer this England team does have a more balanced look to it
Absolutely, this team has the classic test team balance - 5 bats, all-rounder, keeper, 4 bowlers. Too many people get distracted when YJB or Moeen get runs and start blathering about picking more bowlers.
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God I love Ben Stokes.
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He is definitely entertaining!! :o
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Love cricket! Well batted
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Fantastic Ton! 350 seems competitive on this wicket although SA have a few excellent batsmen in their ranks as well.
At one point I started to doubt that we would even get to 300!
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Arise Lord Stokes.
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I dont really get the Stokesy following. Sure he played a fantastic knock today but lets see him become consistent and do it against the big teams and on the big occasions often.
I always thought of him being abit of a flat track bully. When he is up against it (T20 final, CT Semis) he always flops.
One good knock and all off a sudden he is the next Kallis.
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Excellent from Tobias Skelton Roland-Jones
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I dont really get the Stokesy following. Sure he played a fantastic knock today but lets see him become consistent and do it against the big teams and on the big occasions often.
I always thought of him being abit of a flat track bully. When he is up against it (T20 final, CT Semis) he always flops.
One good knock and all off a sudden he is the next Kallis.
I'd hardly call Perth in an away ashes easy...
Yes he could be more consistent but 5 hundreds in 35 tests is a ton every 7 games, he's batting at 6/7 not a bad return in my eyes
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Roland-Jones, Roland-Jones, Toby Roland-Jones
(To the tune of give it up)
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Michael Holding, secret CBF'er?
Seems to be the authority on pressing...
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Tobias! Fine debut!
Sounds like Kuhn started walking before the finger went up! Must of been plumb!
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Tobias! Fine debut!
Sounds like Kuhn started walking before the finger went up! Must of been plumb!
oh Tobias!!!!!!!!! hes got Amla now too
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TOBIAS SKELTON ROLAND-JONES
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Oh Toby Toby! Toby Toby Toby Toby Roland Jones!
(to the tune of jimmys song)
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Good captaincy from root getting Jimmy off??
Pollock loves saying trj a bit much
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Absolute ripper to get Amla that, what a start to a test career!
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Who was saying Roland-Jones was a journeyman who didn't deserve a call up??
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WHAT!?
Tobias can do no wrong right now!
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Really should have reviewed that
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Jimmy in on the act now, South Africa collapsing worse than we did last week!
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A+++++ leave
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I dont really get the Stokesy following. Sure he played a fantastic knock today but lets see him become consistent and do it against the big teams and on the big occasions often.
I always thought of him being abit of a flat track bully. When he is up against it (T20 final, CT Semis) he always flops.
One good knock and all off a sudden he is the next Kallis.
In yesterday's and today's conditions batting wasn't easy Botham said the knock was as good as the 230 in SA.
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Excellent from Tobias Skelton Roland-Jones
And he is getting top. players out.
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So if TRJ keeps bowling like this, and actually looks like he is a fair lower order batsman, then should be interesting to see what happens when Woakes is fully fit again!
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New bowler makes the difference. How teams look sudden in every match?
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(http://i.imgur.com/JN0OVFR.png)
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So if TRJ keeps bowling like this, and actually looks like he is a fair lower order batsman, then should be interesting to see what happens when Woakes is fully fit again!
You'd have thought we'd have learned not to get ahead of ourselves.
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Great day for us and we finally are playing proper test match cricket in testing conditions . I would not get carried away with any bowlers performance this wicket is doing a bit which makes Stokes innings even better.
Class always comes to the top eventually and Cook and Stokes are two of our best.
I think myself Ben is up there with Botham and I watched Botham at his peak and he was at one time, the best allrounder in the world in an era where there were 4 other world class players in his class.
Tommorow is set up and much as I don't like Vaughan he was right after the last test, we need to knuckle down and battle sometimes in this form of the game.
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SA without Philander bowling looked ordinary today.
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I think myself Ben is up there with Botham and I watched Botham at his peak and he was at one time, the best allrounder in the world in an era where there were 4 other world class players in his class.
I'd take Stokes over Botham. Definitely.
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Toby went to the same school as Zafar.
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A good day I'm sure for everyone who was there.
@procricket - Dave, is this you?
(http://i68.tinypic.com/se0npx.jpg)
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Telly pounds pounds on you !!!!!
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Had a good day there yesterday a really good day was tough going especially as it got gloomy and dark.
Roland Jones bowled and batted well no doubt and Stokes was simply just imperious and the partnership with Bairstow was the game changer for me as they put South Africa to the sword.
Spent a hour watching Joe Root bating off 4 catchets ramps he was obisously fourios for getting out.
As for the football England by and large are pants bar a bit of skill from Ramps and Bairstow and the need to win by Stokes is evident.
Great day great ground
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the big question though Dave.......... TMS or sky sports through the ear piece???
Good day to go mate, glad you enjoyed it!!
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I'd take Stokes over Botham. Definitely.
I wouldn't Botham was a far better bowler
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the big question though Dave.......... TMS or sky sports through the ear piece???
Good day to go mate, glad you enjoyed it!!
sorry Sky mate!!!
I saw in the program Stokes stats vs Ali stats (I'm not comparing but shows what numbers mean)
Before the test
Stokes 34 test, 1977 runs, averages @32 , 4 hundreds 9 fifties
Ali 39 test, 2066 runs, averages @35 , 5 hundreds,10 fifties
Bowling
Stokes 83wkts,@35. 3 x 5wkt halls
Ali 112wkts@39,3x 5 wkt halls, 1x10 wkt hall
Found it interesting the stats.
Stokes
As for Roland-Jones he did nothing wrong at all and it good for English cricket to get the lads on the edges a game and for them to come in and do well is so important.
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I wouldn't Botham was a far better bowler
Are you looking at it through rose tinted "everything was better back in my day" glasses though?
While Botham's bowling was probably better, I'd have Stokes as his all round game offers more. It's obviously unfair to compare like for like with the generations difference between them, but Stokes is a better fielder & athlete than Botham.
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and for me Cam and Senior comments are what makes cricket great. opinions vary so much I love the game!
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Are you looking at it through rose tinted "everything was better back in my day" glasses though?
While Botham's bowling was probably better, I'd have Stokes as his all round game offers more. It's obviously unfair to compare like for like with the generations difference between them, but Stokes is a better fielder & athlete than Botham.
I don't think it's unfair to compare eras in this instance, they are similar players...it's a genuine comparison and very close who is better or if stokes could eclipse both an.
I'm sure you know Cam as yr a cricket bookworm/you tube child Botham was quick in his pomp and moved the ball at pace.....
My opinion Stokes is a better batsman but only by a fag paper
Worth remembering a lot of the players batted bare headed and I'm not having it the bowling is better today.
Yours an old person..where's my glasses!
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Massive knock for Jennings!Playing for his place here,can't imagine the pressure he is feeling.I wish the lad well.
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Really don't even know why Philander has even tried playing...
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Jennings dropped on six
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I think Stokes is a very special batsman.... He really needs to improve his numbers. Not sure I'd ever pick him as just a bowler
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I can see what you mean @Johnny, he's expensive but does have that something that gets some good wickets at important times.
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This tweet is hilarious then you put Hales' response to it https://twitter.com/root66/status/891206651621060608
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Are you looking at it through rose tinted "everything was better back in my day" glasses though?
While Botham's bowling was probably better, I'd have Stokes as his all round game offers more. It's obviously unfair to compare like for like with the generations difference between them, but Stokes is a better fielder & athlete than Botham.
Stokes is a very good player but I don't see how you can possibly compare him to Botham, who was the greatest all rounder of all time. He was an out and out strike bowler who could bowl a team out. Wasn't he the leading wicket taker in the world at one point? Stokes is a good 1st/2nd change bowler, but unlikely to run through a team.
Batting they are far more similar, but I'd have liked to have seen Beefy using the modern day bats. He'd have been even more destructive than he was then. Fielding also very similar, but again Beefy was one of the best slip fielders of all time. I think Stokes has the potential to be a great player, but still has some way to go and needs to be more consistent if he is to achieve it.
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Botham the greatest all-rounder of all time? What a load of rubbish!
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I think Kallis and Sobers may have a argument so too Dev,Hadlee,Khan
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Botham was a better bowler than Stokes for perhaps 20% of his England career. Many, many times I saw him run in looking unfit, half-hearted and distinctly medium pace (although it has to be said he maintained a happy knack of getting wickets with bad balls).
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To be compared to great all-rounders, questions are
1) Would you pick Stokes just as a bowler?
2) Would you pick him just as a batsman?
Regardless, he is brilliant on his day.
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To be compared to great all-rounders, questions are
1) Would you pick Stokes just as a bowler?
2) Would you pick him just as a batsman?
Regardless, he is brilliant on his day.
Kallis-Sobers
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Botham the greatest all-rounder of all time? What a load of rubbish!
Botham wasn't even close. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/40560.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/40560.html)
Imran was easily top of "the four" (best overall record and phenomenal record in his last 10 years - 50 with bat and 19 with ball!)....and sobers way ahead.
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Botham the greatest all-rounder of all time? What a load of rubbish!
Couldn't agree more Kallis for me is the best allrounder in my time and then you have R Hadlee and K Dev before that were easily above botham and that's before you look any further, botham is certainly one of England's greatest allrounders which is still a fantastic achievement
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botham was a matchwinner and in the top handful of allrounders ever . but at times he was a fat medium pacer.
sobers , kallis , miller , dev , khan are before botham in my books. then you could argue gilchrist should be in the list too .
stokes has the potential , but then again so did flintoff . you just have to wait and see if stokes becomes more consistent and can do it for 10 more years... or if he gets injuries , doesn't elvolve a player more etc. at the same time in his career people were saying flintoff was better than botham. post career , although flintoff was a great cricketer , i dont think you could say he was better than botham.
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Imran was easily top of "the four" (best overall record and phenomenal record in his last 10 years - 50 with bat and 19 with ball!)....and sobers way ahead.
Agree. For much of that era I'd have taken any of the other three over Botham.
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imagine a Kallis-Khan hybrid or a kallis-hadlee who I think was the best bowler out of any of the player mentioned.
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http://sporteology.com/top-10-greatest-all-rounders-in-cricket/ (http://sporteology.com/top-10-greatest-all-rounders-in-cricket/)
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If we're doing hybrids, couldn't we just have one batsman and one bowler combined? Say Tendulkar/ Warne?
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We all have our personal opinions I guess. Yes Botham was unfit at times but he played at a time when you could get away with it. Khan and Hadlee were truly great bowlers but not quite as good with the bat. I never really saw much of Kapil Dev and too young to see the great Sobers. Kallis is a good choice and was a brilliant batsman. His bowling record is excellent but he wasn't always a front line bowler.
Surprising that the Aussies have never produced a world class all rounder up with those mentioned.
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We all have our personal opinions I guess. Yes Botham was unfit at times but he played at a time when you could get away with it. Khan and Hadlee were truly great bowlers but not quite as good with the bat. I never really saw much of Kapil Dev and too young to see the great Sobers. Kallis is a good choice and was a brilliant batsman. His bowling record is excellent but he wasn't always a front line bowler.
Surprising that the Aussies have never produced a world class all rounder up with those mentioned.
Um .... Keith Miller ?
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Jenning gone for 48... but westley gone into hard earned 50!
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Sobers
What couldn't he do
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Are you looking at it through rose tinted "everything was better back in my day" glasses though?
While Botham's bowling was probably better, I'd have Stokes as his all round game offers more. It's obviously unfair to compare like for like with the generations difference between them, but Stokes is a better fielder & athlete than Botham.
Better fielder ? Botham had over 100 test match catches the fastest to 100 wickets and 1000 runs always dominant.
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Better fielder ? Botham had over 100 test match catches the fastest to 100 wickets and 1000 runs always dominant.
How has this turned into a "Greatest Allrounders" thread when there a test match going on.
Root and Westley gone after well played 50's.
Now time to see what Malan's got
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Better fielder ? Botham had over 100 test match catches the fastest to 100 wickets and 1000 runs always dominant.
Ali is 5th quickest in history to 2000 runs and 100 wickets but you wouldn't put him in that bracket as a world class allrounder
stats can be misleading
Really like Malan and enjoyed Westley Innings.
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Better fielder ? Botham had over 100 test match catches the fastest to 100 wickets and 1000 runs always dominant.
Catches win matches and all, but...
Stokes is more athletic.
Stokes takes catches few, if any, others in the world would.
Stokes is one of the best outfielders in the world.
Beefy would take catches, but Stokes also saves so many runs, so in my opinion at least, he's a better fielder.
Anyway, back to the game in hand. Stokes looks like he's been sent in for a good time not a long time!
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Malan goes LBW, is it going to be boom time for Stokes and YJB?
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It is a different era. Daft to say Stoke is more athletic as everything is relative to their time. White jumpers on cream would have been fixed ASAP in days gone by for example ;)
It wouldn't have been changed in the first place?
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Ali is 5th quickest in history to 2000 runs and 100 wickets but you wouldn't put him in that bracket as a world class allrounder
stats can be misleading
Gary Ballance was quickest batsman too a thousand runs.
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If Ballance is fit for OT do you think Malan will get sacked off after 1 test?
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If Ballance is fit for OT do you think Malan will get sacked off after 1 test?
No that's not the England way what the coaches will do is work with Malan on the in swinging ball getting him to pick his bat up towards second slip rather than behind his body.
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No that's not the England way what the coaches will do is work with Malan on the in swinging ball getting him to pick his bat up towards second slip rather than behind his body.
I doubt it will be as straightforward as that.
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Is it just me or does Root look like a complete rabbit in the headlights when it comes to the reviews??
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Kuhn or Jennings, who's worse? Kuhn got nothing again!
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I doubt it will be as straightforward as that.
That's Malans flaw thats got him out twice though bat behind his body leading to him being closed off to the ball going across.
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Kuhn or Jennings, who's worse? Kuhn got nothing again!
What happened to Stephen Cook? He was supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread?
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What happened to Stephen Cook? He was supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread?
He got his chance late on, got a good start but his scores started drop.
As he was mid thirties they replaced him quickly.
On what I've seen(which isn't a huge amount) stephen Cook > heino kuhn
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He got his chance late on, got a good start but his scores started drop.
As he was mid thirties they replaced him quickly.
On what I've seen(which isn't a huge amount) stephen Cook > heino kuhn
Ah. Didnt realise he was knocking on. Checked the stats too, looks like he dried up after the SA/Eng series.
Glad we aren't the only team struggling for openers!
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That's Malans flaw thats got him out twice though bat behind his body leading to him being closed off to the ball going across.
And he's got to this level without picking his bat up right, you think?
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Ben Stokes, ladies and gents. Thank God he's English (well, enough for me)
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Great leave again by Faf... :D
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Ben Stokes, ladies and gents. Thank God he's English.
Keeps on stepping up. Perhaps if 'Beefy' had worked as hard?
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Complete and utter brainfade. I feel for Bavuma in situations like this
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Faf out leaving the ball twice in the match.
As far as I can tell, the only reason I'm not playing international cricket is because at least pro's get in the way of it before it splatters off stump.
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Faf de plonker!
Twice???
And Stokes's Yorker!what a ball
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Can't remember anyone else ever being out twice in the same game leaving it? What was Faf doing 😂😂
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Really like watching Elgar. No fuss,wears a few, bats not straight but battles away for his team.
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To be compared to great all-rounders, questions are
1) Would you pick Stokes just as a bowler?
2) Would you pick him just as a batsman?
Regardless, he is brilliant on his day.
Well in fairness, Stokes has been selected by England as both a specialist batsman and as a bowler with him batting at 8, so clearly yes to both! Silly to start comparisons tbh, he's a bloody good player but is also only 26 - his career could go in very different directions from here so only time will tell.
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He got his chance late on, got a good start but his scores started drop.
As he was mid thirties they replaced him quickly.
On what I've seen(which isn't a huge amount) stephen Cook > heino kuhn
He also played (when I say played I mean scored close to 0 runs) for Durham at the start of the season which actually looks to have hindered his chances of a summer playing for SA
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Can't remember anyone else ever being out twice in the same game leaving it? What was Faf doing 😂😂
I believe Brian Lara was - also vrs England I think under Hussains captaincy. Can still picture one dismissal now, massive Caddick inswinger from over the wicket.
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Indicision with these dismissals is not that uncommon , not seen it twice is a row but it's the game situation and fear of playing at it in case ere is a nick behind I reckon.
SA can't win and that means batters don't play as positively , same happened with Amla's dismissal he was looking to leave.
Jennings is the same, half forward, minimal foot movement ..at least he looked a bit better 2nd innings.
Be interesting to see if he stays in for the 4th test, if ballance is fit which I think he is he might come back in
Malan I can't see being dropped after one test- also can't see us playing Dawson or any other spinner.
So it could be Jennings get the whole series and Malan stays in, ballance on sidelines.
Very pleased Westley got runs, hard to tell from 2 innings but he did not look overawed and grafted second knock when runs were not easy.
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Also please can we take a second to appreciate YJB now doing this in test matches https://twitter.com/englandcricket/status/891661053926363137
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TRJ looks a very threatening bowler.
Is he always like this?
Not sure wood liked like taking a wicket in the last test.
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There are two types of leave.....
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There are two types of leave.....
Shame SA have taken the Shane Watson tactic of using his pad instead of his bat
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TRJ is looking very good. Can't imagine him not being given next Test as well - excellent bowling and decent with the bat too!
Assuming Woakes is fighting fit for the WI Tests, what do England do? And let's not forgot about Woods and Ball as well! Nice to be in this position though but I suspect that there will be some tough choices to follow for WI Tests and particularly who to take to the Ashes!!
Opinions?
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Malan out, Woakes in. Everyone's moves up, Woakes at 8.
I think Anderson, Broad, TRJ, Woakes and Stokes is a bit too much bowling personally, so I think when Anderson calls it a day, we bring Malan or Ballance back in.
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Cook
Jennings
Westley
Root
Moeen ---------------
Stokes ---------------- These three can switch around to go as suited.
Bairstow ---------------
Woakes (if fit)
TRJ
Broad
Anderson
Possibly bowling heavy, but realistically Stokes could get selected on his batting alone, so IMO he can play as a specialist bat. I can't really see a position for Ballance - his hanging back is fine in county cricket, but with the extra 5-10mph, it seems to catch him in a sticky spot. Arguably not had a fair crack going in at 3 when he's been batting middle order at Yorkshire of course! Good to have Wood as a back up, but with his injury problems can he offer consistency or will he forever be in and out?
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TRJ is looking very good. Can't imagine him not being given next Test as well - excellent bowling and decent with the bat too!
Assuming Woakes is fighting fit for the WI Tests, what do England do? And let's not forgot about Woods and Ball as well! Nice to be in this position though but I suspect that there will be some tough choices to follow for WI Tests and particularly who to take to the Ashes!!
Opinions?
The WI series will definitely be used to rest one of or both Broad and Anderson and possibly even Stokes.
So i can see a situation where they literally give the likes of Ball, Wood, TRJ maybe Overton etc.... the chance to cement their place on the plane for the Ashes.
Then you might see Woakes in for Stokes if they want to give him a rest and move Bairstow and Mo up the order.
Batting wise I think Westley will get the series to get more tests under his belt.
The big decision will be over the openers slot - where i think a lot will depend on what Jennings does at OT. I can't see the side changing and that way Jennings gets a final chance to either impress or be dropped for the WI series.
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Trj has bowled better than I thought he would...it is helpful bowling conditions true but he has still done really well.same with Westley.
I think trj being able to bat def helps England with selection.
We don't really need 8 batsmen long term and bayliss or whoever now decided two spinners is not the way forward
Jennings is the problem...he needs to work on his game but could come good later on...many young players have done.
England yes prob want to look at stoneman, can't see Jennings going on the ashes tour
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if jennings doesnt go who will be the openers on the tour?
cook, stoneman and hammeed?
hammeed with no form and stoneman on a first tour, its a bold shout, although i cant see anymore options, unless root opens (again) and we keep malan in the side with everyone moving up one spot
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I think we need to rest Cook and "rest" Jennings for the WI Tests and open with Hameed and Stoneman.
I realise the WI bowling attack are a lot weaker than the Aussies bowling attack but need to see how the prospective openers look!
Plus it could give Hameed the chance to start getting back in form at a decent level! And if he looks like a walking wicket (like Jennings does) then it ensures that Stoneman is also looked at!
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I think we need to rest Cook and "rest" Jennings for the WI Tests and open with Hameed and Stoneman.
I realise the WI bowling attack are a lot weaker than the Aussies bowling attack but need to see how the prospective openers look!
Plus it could give Hameed the chance to start getting back in form at a decent level! And if he looks like a walking wicket (like Jennings does) then it ensures that Stoneman is also looked at!
If, for arguments sake, they both make runs against a weaker WI attack have the selectors really learned anything of note though?
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Hat-Trick for moeen!
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Hat-Trick for moeen!
Fear the beard!
our number 2 spinner!
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Definitely time for more call to drop Moeen...
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I'll tell you who wants dropping. Joel Wilson.
Awful all match, I know umpiring is a thankless task, but you could at least get a few right...
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Great win.
Also don't listen to TMS but that Boycott stitch up is hilarious
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Definitely time for more call to drop Moeen...
Dawson would have got a hat trick on day 4
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If, for arguments sake, they both make runs against a weaker WI attack have the selectors really learned anything of note though?
Well - it doesn't take a genius to see that Jennings is looking like a walking wicket.
So the selectors can take a look at Hameed and Stoneman. You can see whoever the batsmen are batting against whether they are looking in decent nick.
Therefore it should give an indication of their form. And as Stoneman and Hameed (and possibly Gubbins) would be the most obvious candidates for opening alongside Cook, then it would surely give you the option to take both in the squad? What are the alternatives? Jennings may have scored 48 this match but he really hasn't looked convincing at any time.
With Stoneman you have someone who looks on decent form and with Hameed you have a real long-term future opener hopefully.
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Anyone listen to TMS this morning and the Boycott wind up? Very funny, and vaguely related to the series :D
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05b5j5t (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05b5j5t)
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Well - it doesn't take a genius to see that Jennings is looking like a walking wicket.
So the selectors can take a look at Hameed and Stoneman. You can see whoever the batsmen are batting against whether they are looking in decent nick.
Therefore it should give an indication of their form. And as Stoneman and Hameed (and possibly Gubbins) would be the most obvious candidates for opening alongside Cook, then it would surely give you the option to take both in the squad? What are the alternatives? Jennings may have scored 48 this match but he really hasn't looked convincing at any time.
With Stoneman you have someone who looks on decent form and with Hameed you have a real long-term future opener hopefully.
All I meant was if they (Stoneman and Hameed) both play against WI and score say, 300 runs each across the series (as an example) are we any closer to knowing who partners Cook in the 1st Ashes Test, how do you pick between them? I agree Jennings hasn't looked great, but I thought he looked decent in India, I wouldn't like to be a selector haha!
Great win today though!
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All I meant was if they (Stoneman and Hameed) both play against WI and score say, 300 runs each across the series (as an example) are we any closer to knowing who partners Cook in the 1st Ashes Test, how do you pick between them? I agree Jennings hasn't looked great, but I thought he looked decent in India, I wouldn't like to be a selector haha!
Great win today though!
Don't think you can pick anyone for Aus based on the WI tests in the ICC rankings only the likes of Banladesh and Zimbabwe are behind them.
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Don't think you can pick anyone for Aus based on the WI tests in the ICC rankings only the likes of Banladesh and Zimbabwe are behind them.
That was partly what I was getting at.
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I think we need to rest Cook and "rest" Jennings for the WI Tests and open with Hameed and Stoneman.
I realise the WI bowling attack are a lot weaker than the Aussies bowling attack but need to see how the prospective openers look!
Plus it could give Hameed the chance to start getting back in form at a decent level! And if he looks like a walking wicket (like Jennings does) then it ensures that Stoneman is also looked at!
What do we need to rest Cook for, he's played a massive 3 international games in 2017!? Word seems to be that the England camp don't actually rate Stoneman that highly, so don't hold your breath Surrey fans.
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Stoneman seems to score quite a lot of runs through third man. This might not bode well for Test cricket?
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Will / should not play 5 seamers. TRJ or Woakes.
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They've picked Steve Finn again for the 4th test surely this is a step backwards or show that they are worried that Mark Wood won't be fit enough to tour in the winter.
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They've picked Steve Finn again for the 4th test surely this is a step backwards or show that they are worried that Mark Wood won't be fit enough to tour in the winter.
Finn was in the squad for the last test too. Think he's there just in case a McGrath incident happens on the morning of the game.Stoneman seems to score quite a lot of runs through third man. This might not bode well for Test cricket?
Isn't that were Root/Williamson score a number of their runs too?
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Ballance :(
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My understanding is if jennings fails in the 4th test then Stoneman gets the nod aswell as ballance back in for malan unless malan goes big. Can't see them resting anybody many of the team haven't played much redball cricket since India and stokes backed that up in his interviews.
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I wonder if Ballance's time is up,he showed on his recent comeback the same technical flaws that leaves him highly susceptible to high quality fast bowling.That said,Malan looked like he had a few issues technically as well!
The players that come in get taken apart by the pundits,must be tough as a player for it not to get in your head!Hales,Duckett,Vince etc Al,even Westley despite doing so well,have their techniques taken apart by the guys on sky!
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Isn't that were Root/Williamson score a number of their runs too?
Let's hope he's as good as they are!
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They won't call time on Balance before the end of the summer, the injury possibly gave him an extra chance.
The bowling for the ashes worries me a touch but if they're isn't anyone knocking on the door what can you do.
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Yes 5 tests in Aus 100 wickets need to be taken most normally by seamers who in the England side is going to get them can see TRJ And Wood getting extra bounce and doing okay along with Broad Stokes and Anderson if they can stay fit.
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Yes 5 tests in Aus 100 wickets need to be taken most normally by seamers who in the England side is going to get them can see TRJ And Wood getting extra bounce and doing okay along with Broad Stokes and Anderson if they can stay fit.
Surprised you haven't mentioned Woakes in the bowlers list ;)
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Surprised you haven't mentioned Woakes in the bowlers list ;)
He thinks that if he keeps him out of the subject for long enough, the selectors will forget about him once he's back from injury ;)
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Yes 5 tests in Aus 100 wickets need to be taken most normally by seamers who in the England side is going to get them can see TRJ And Wood getting extra bounce and doing okay along with Broad Stokes and Anderson if they can stay fit.
Anderson's record in Australia is average at best!
Stokes just seems to make things happen, and he's bowled well in Australia in his one series there so far.
Wood, I hate to say it, won't last the tour. His body just isn't designed for Test cricket.
Doesn't Finn have a nack of taking wickets in Australia, maybe take him on the tour?
Woakes is a shoe in to travel if fit, if he's effective remains to be seen.
With TRJ, Broad & Ball we aren't short of seamers. It's the lack of spinners may be an issue but that's been know for ages
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Really late to notice it but how come hotspot isn't being used anymore?
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Really late to notice it but how come hotspot isn't being used anymore?
Good question. Is it because it can be fooled? Waxing edges etc.
Or, perhaps ultraedge, spin vision and ball tracking is enough?
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Anderson's record in Australia is average at best!
Stokes just seems to make things happen, and he's bowled well in Australia in his one series there so far.
Wood, I hate to say it, won't last the tour. His body just isn't designed for Test cricket.
Doesn't Finn have a nack of taking wickets in Australia, maybe take him on the tour?
Woakes is a shoe in to travel if fit, if he's effective remains to be seen.
With TRJ, Broad & Ball we aren't short of seamers. It's the lack of spinners may be an issue but that's been know for ages
Agree with all except : last time eng toured oz Finn was deemed 'impossible to select' by ecb selectors . Also , unless you have a big turning leggie you trust (so that rules out Rashid) , then a finger spinner of Ali's level should suffice for the job .
Personally, i love Woakes as a player , but i dont think you need /should want Woakes and Anderson in the same side in Australia. . With Anderson's mediocre aussie record and Woakes' superior batting, id opt for the latter .
Personally i think trj just looks perfectly suited to oz conditions and should be a definite starter .
Bat Ali at 8 , then 3 specialist bowlers ( woakes, broad, trj ) , along with stokes at 6 or 7 , bairstow at 6 or 7 , and 5 specialist batsmen..... england, just stop being indecisive re opener spot ( just decide on Hameed already and be done with it ) , then figure out the best bloke for the one available batting spot ( working from a starting point that Ballance is not to be picked under any circumstances ) ...... and presto - england test selection dilemas sorted ! :D
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God CRICINFO's new look is driving me mad!!!!
Where's the old text commentary bit with all the pre-match banter from the commentators - I can't find it?
Same problem as last time - where's all the pre-match banter and build up to the toss on cricinfo? This is driving me doolally!
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Anderson with a stand named after him up north
Not bad for a clubbie :)
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The "Burnley Lara' Stand?
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No Philander or Morris, which is a big plus for us.
We are unchanged and batting first
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No Philander or Morris, which is a big plus for us.
We are unchanged and batting first
SA look a miles weaker side once you take Philander out, especially in English conditions. Morris has the x factor but is very inconsistent, England should win this comfortably (he says nervously).
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Really hope Jennings gets himself a good score today.
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Philander is such a good bowler it's scary
He's carrying a few extra pounds just goes to show in the modern game it's still skill that counts :)
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Finally managed to find the scorecard
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/10718/game/1031443/England-vs-South-Africa-4th-Test-Basil-DOliveira-Trophy (http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/10718/game/1031443/England-vs-South-Africa-4th-Test-Basil-DOliveira-Trophy)
Bloody joke
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With Philander out Jennings must be feeling a lot happier!
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Tom Westley is my bestie.
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Finally managed to find the scorecard
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/10718/game/1031443/England-vs-South-Africa-4th-Test-Basil-DOliveira-Trophy[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/10718/game/1031443/England-vs-South-Africa-4th-Test-Basil-DOliveira-Trophy[/url])
Bloody joke
Is the full commentary working for everybody?
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I like the way Westley comes across in interviews,seems like a good bloke,very level headed,knows his game.Hope I don't haven't given him the kiss of death!
Still not at all convinced by Jennings,dropped already this morning-stays so upright even when playing defensively,get that head towards the ball boy!
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Surely Jennings,Westley & Malan are praying for a score in this test to get a go against the West Indies.
Surely a bit easier to fill your boots against that attack and book yourself a place on the big bird to Oz in the winter.
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Jennings looking better
#kissofdeath
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With Jennings there is something there, not convinced myself but why is the coaching not being questioned?
Do we not expect our coaches to be helping between matches
Is that too much to ask?
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There aren't many more comforting sights than Alastair Cook rocketing a square cut to the boundary
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Is the full commentary working for everybody?
Nope. Not refreshing and it's doing my brain in. Will try the ECB one.
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The auto refresh isn't working for me either. Very annoying whilst at work.
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https://www.ecb.co.uk/matches/4321#overview (https://www.ecb.co.uk/matches/4321#overview)
Much better
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Again; should have selected Stoneman
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#kissofdeath
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Keaton is on his one game too many it would seem :-(
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Jennings out pushing forward at one should have let the ball come to him.
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Relying on whatsapp updates at the moment it would seem
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Get hameed back in!
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Not Hameed! A few good games in India doesn't warrant a test selection. He hasn't got a run all year!
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From pics on BBC looks like HAMEED is working with ramps at the moment
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Just realised Westley is wearing Paynters. Nice to see them getting some coverage.
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Not Hameed! A few good games in India doesn't warrant a test selection. He hasn't got a run all year!
Why? He's only young and did well in his only chance. Yes he hasn't done well in the championship this season but Jennings wasn't doing much better in division 2, think he averaged about 15 in the 5 matches leading up to the first test. I think we need a Lh/rh combo.
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Surely you've got to give in and pick someone who is in some sort of form soon? Surely Stoneman deserves a go?
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Stoneman for me.
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Just realised Westley is wearing Paynters. Nice to see them getting some coverage.
Ive ordered some from their 30% off promo they are running on facebook
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Jennings is done.
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Malan's bat... looks good but is it really a GM?
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You'd like to think so, but when he goes and get 100 in the seconds innings.
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You'd like to think so, but when he goes and get 100 in the seconds innings.
Haven't looked like it. 50 would be a good start.
It's back to Root, Stokes, and JB as usual.
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Against a poor SA attack these lot are 147-4, could you imagine what mess we could be in against the Ozzies
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Such a weird brainfade from De Kock there considering how well he's kept all series
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Against a poor SA attack these lot are 147-4, could you imagine what mess we could be in against the Ozzies
And then you could probably say the exact same thing in reverse about the Australian batsman.
I'd argue SA batting line up is stronger that the Aus batting line up and we are still 2-1 up in the series so what mess could the Aus batsman be in?
147-4 is all about context to the conditions and game happening now, not a game to be played in 6 months time at the other side of the world!
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- Score 50
- Get out
- Sleep
- Repeat
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that was a farce... yjb given out talked the umpire into going upstairs then given not out,
mind you the ball seemed to land then be scooped by elgar, for me correct decision eventually!
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Against a poor SA attack these lot are 147-4, could you imagine what mess we could be in against the Ozzies
If Morne and Rabada are poor I'd like to see a good quick bowler!
Root's conversion rate is beyond poor now.
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Stokes is far to good a bat to be averaging low thirties.I'd really like to see him push on now and get that average above forty at least.
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This pitch does not look easy to bat on!
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Even day with YJB and stokes Batting well again.
I just had a thought...it's high time someone told root to bat 3...I love Joe he could be our best ever player in a few years yes better than Gooch, cook,kp(no rose tinted glass for me take note!)
But if he actually moved to open the innings with Cook, Chris woakes when fit comes back and that gives a proper chance to westley and Malan same as other players have had. It means Jennings misses out but if that was changed and woakes is in are we not a far better team(on paper at least)!
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Even day with YJB and stokes Batting well again.
I just had a thought...it's high time someone told root to bat 3...I love Joe he could be our best ever player in a few years yes better than Gooch, cook,kp(no rose tinted glass for me take note!)
But if he actually moved to open the innings with Cook, Chris woakes when fit comes back and that gives a proper chance to westley and Malan same as other players have had. It means Jennings misses out but if that was changed and woakes is in are we not a far better team(on paper at least)!
Would we need Stokes, Woakes & TRJ in the same side though?
That side would be so packed with bowlers someone would be missing out every game
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Would we need Stokes, Woakes & TRJ in the same side though?
That side would be so packed with bowlers someone would be missing out every game
Good point yes....I've got half a mind broad and probably Anderson might not play every game. brilliant bowlers the pair of them, you could argue our best pairing together, but the body can only take so much.
Alternatively a bowler may miss out in favour of bairstow as purely a specialist batsman.
Just something that came into my head. I don't think myself Anderson will tour Australia, or if he does will England rotate him?
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Stokes is far to good a bat to be averaging low thirties.I'd really like to see him push on now and get that average above forty at least.
I was just thinking this, he bats like a proper Test batsman now not just a lower order smash, I agree, if he keeps it up he could/should finish with a batting average in the low to mid 40's, which if he can just shave a couple off his bowling average too (down to 31 maybe) he has the potential to go down as an all time England great.
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YJB is so good
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YJB is so good
Soooooo good
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What a knock, deserved a ton.
Also the way he farmed the strike while batting with the tail is exactly why I like him batting at 7.
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How can the umpire be sure that was out when he made the decision? About 1mm of the ball in line with off stump at contact.
I know the technology backed his decision up but that really was an iffy decision to give him out on the field.
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JIMMY
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Also if this doesn't cement Bumble's place as the greatest commentator of all time then God knows what will https://streamable.com/r4v4k
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Bairstow's good at 7. But we're still only sure of 2 of our top 5.
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Also if this doesn't cement Bumble's place as the greatest commentator of all time then God knows what will https://streamable.com/r4v4k
Not bad , but still nothing compared to Tony Greig when it comes to this kind of stuff .
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Bairstow's good at 7. But we're still only sure of 2 of our top 5.
I like the look of Westley's technique so I would personally give him a decent run at number 3.
But Jenning's technique has been shown up and we need to try someone else in there for WI tests.
Would still like to see Stoneman but I suspect they will aim to get Hameed in instead, even though his form has not been good this season.
Malan? He has only looked decent in the ODI where he was playing with freedom. I know some don't like Ballance particularly, but I would quite like to see him at 5 assuming he is back from injury?
So for WI I would love to see..
Cook
Stoneman / Hameed
Westley
Root
Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
TRJ / Woakes
Broad
Anderson
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JIMMY
Still England's best bowler bY miles
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I like the look of Westley's technique so I would personally give him a decent run at number 3.
But Jenning's technique has been shown up and we need to try someone else in there for WI tests.
Would still like to see Stoneman but I suspect they will aim to get Hameed in instead, even though his form has not been good this season.
Malan? He has only looked decent in the ODI where he was playing with freedom. I know some don't like Ballance particularly, but I would quite like to see him at 5 assuming he is back from injury?
So for WI I would love to see..
Cook
Stoneman / Hameed
Westley
Root
Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
TRJ / Woakes
Broad
Anderson
Hameed , ball and woakes all back in action in the next couple of days. Similar I think England have Hameed as the long term opener whether they will put him in for the West Indies is a bit of a gamble I suppose but if he is test class sooner may be better.
We miss Woakes in the side and if ballance comes back at 5 Malan prob misses out ...if so he would not of had the run others have had
Be interesting to see if Hameed is brought back now, he has to play if we are taking him to the Australia....Farbrace hinted Jennings will have a break to work on things away from the test arena.....sounds like England rate him thou so may well be back..he would not be the first to find the step up harder after a few games in the side.
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Hales at 5............
They picked malan on short format form. Hales bossing blast at moment.
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Jennings has to be done after this! 0 off 13 balls and dropped at slip! Nothing has changed!
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Hameed , ball and woakes all back in action in the next couple of days. Similar I think England have Hameed as the long term opener whether they will put him in for the West Indies is a bit of a gamble I suppose but if he is test class sooner may be better.
We miss Woakes in the side and if ballance comes back at 5 Malan prob misses out ...if so he would not of had the run others have had
Be interesting to see if Hameed is brought back now, he has to play if we are taking him to the Australia....Farbrace hinted Jennings will have a break to work on things away from the test arena.....sounds like England rate him thou so may well be back..he would not be the first to find the step up harder after a few games in the side.
Missed Woakes not really when you have TRJ
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Woakes will come back and be first choice when we tip up in the land of Aus.
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Woakes will come back and be first choice when we tip up in the land of Aus.
Yes - but it has been good to find TRJ as a very decent player to include in the squad!
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of course it has I was there at the oval watching him go through the Saffers,
he a quality line bowler
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Turning a bit at OT :( :o :( :o
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I love Moeen Ali
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200 runs and 20 wickets in 4 tests has been done by:
Botham - 244 runs and 20 wickets vs India in 1979
Hadlee - 301 runs and 21 wickets in England in 1983
Imran Khan - 212 runs and 21 wickets in England in 1982
MJ Procter - 209 runs and 26 wickets vs Australia in 1969/70
AK Davidson - 212 runs and 33 wickets vs Windies in 1960/61
Moeen is on 230+ runs and has 20 wickets with one more innings to play.
He's crap.
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1 more run and he'll have gone past Botham for the best all-round performance for England in a 4 test series.
Drop him for Rashid.
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Anyone else want to see Alex Hales recalled for the number five spot? Bumble mentioned it tonight. If Hales can come in and do well,gives us an exciting g middle to lower order,with Root,Hales,Stokes,Bairstow and Ali...
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Anyone else want to see Alex Hales recalled for the number five spot? Bumble mentioned it tonight. If Hales can come in and do well,gives us an exciting g middle to lower order,with Root,Hales,Stokes,Bairstow and Ali...
Yes, could work. He might still be the best bet to open though.
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Can't see Hales getting a recall ...he is never a test quality opener but to be fair if you were going to pick him at all it should of been in the middle order so can see where the thinking is there.
Here's a name for those that don't think Ballance is up to it and presuming there is a spot available -for the middle order
Ben Duckett.
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Don't think Hales will get a look in. He made his bed when he decided not to go to Bangladesh.
As for Duckett you only had to see his dismissal against Jeetan Patel in the Blast to see he is still struggling against off spin like he did in Bangladesh.
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Yea maybe so...seems to me tho Duckett was earmarked as one for the future, had a very difficult tour and was discarded.either the intial selection was wrong or he should be been persevered with, you could make a case either way I suppose
England seem to like Jennings, the mental side of top level sport maybe he has what's needed, technically he gets out the same way each time...not as bad as it sounds as he prob just needs to work on outside off and getting his weight forward.
He seems tippdm by the pundits to be left out next match. Interesting to see,which way they go, Hameed has not done enough but is the long term bet technically and mentally, Stoneman has done ok over a longer period of time.
We will need 3 openers for Oz....
England could drop Malan keep Jennings and bring back Woakes...that's one option available.
I think myself it's a difficult call to make for the next match.
As was pointed out on here a while back, we have a lot of batsmen not quite good enough at top level.
I would not be totally surprised to see Jennings stay in with Woakes back, and Malan missing out.
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Surely Jennings can't be persisted with for the WI series. Looks a good player but just needs to work on his technique a bit.
I would have to say stoneman looks the best bet to replace him, or maybe give sam Robson another go.
Malan also doesn't look up to test cricket standard so looks like he will go too surely.
As a middle order batsman to replace him id maybe take a punt on Rory burns. One of the highest scorers in div 1 this year and last, never gets mentioned but is a good player and it doesn't look like there are too many other options there at the moment apart from ballance if westley was to still bat at three.
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On a lighter note, it's great to see Root not changing his sense of humour at all
(http://i.imgur.com/vu9Fub1.pngp)
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For WI i think a lot depends on what they want to do with Ballance.
If he gets another go then Malan gets dropped. If not than Malan gets a chance to stake an ashes claim etc...
Woakes will definitely play. He needs to get tests under his belt before the Ashes and we have seen that TRJ is good enough.
As for the openers spot 😣 its anyone's guess! I think you could actually put about 5 or 6 names in a hat and just pick 1 out.
FYI - some of the candidates started CC cricket again yesterday - scores on the doors were -
Hameed - 6
Robson - 3
Duckett - 52
Browne - 23
D-B-D - 0 v WI
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Hameed - 6
Robson - 3
Duckett - 52
Browne - 23
D-B-D - 0 v WI
Chris Dent? Highest scoring non-Surrey/Ali Cook opener in the country so far this season...
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Chris Dent? Highest scoring non-Surrey/Ali Cook opener in the country so far this season...
I was literally just noting who started again yesterday. I have seen Dent's name in a few journo's tweets though.
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For the hales fans out there Swann saying he should come straight back in and suffered a bit from some muddled thinking first time round. Same club swann and hales and they may be mates but a few on the forum think we need some power hitting up front
I don't myself but I see the reasoning
Vaughan says HAmeed should not be recalled yet he's not ready and has no form this year
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That's an absolute beauty from Broad, ball is doing all sorts
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For the hales fans out there Swann saying he should come straight back in and suffered a bit from some muddled thinking first time round. Same club swann and hales and they may be mates but a few on the forum think we need some power hitting up front
I don't myself but I see the reasoning
Vaughan says HAmeed should not be recalled yet he's not ready and has no form this year
Hales has just gone past 50 for Notts.... perhaps most notably batting @ 5 all year for them in CC though.
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Hales has just gone past 50 for Notts.... perhaps most notably batting @ 5 all year for them in CC though.
You say 'all year'? But he's hardly played a lot of red ball cricket. Less than 150 runs at about 30 before today.
I'd take him to Oz though. Has big match experience, at least.
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I still think that Hales could do a fantastic job batting at 5, but don't like him at 2!
We need an opener at 2 - to me that means Stoneman/Hameed(once he gets some form back)/Gubbins, etc.
I think that Westley has shown enough technique quality to give him a run in there.
So assuming selectors eventually decide to give Jennings a rest for a "technique overhaul" then they will likely make the change in the next Test.
And wonder if they will continue on with Malan to give him a run or get Ballance back in at 5 if he is healed?
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Don't have Sky Cricket channel so listening to TMS.
Sounds like the wicket is really doing lots. If SA chase this down, it will have to be considered one of the best chases ever as the conditions are not batting friendly.
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What a ball from Broad https://streamable.com/6mk05
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What a ball from Broad https://streamable.com/6mk05
Like an 82mph legbreak!
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Perfect session there
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Trj proving he can get wickets as he has done for a while on the county circuit.
It didn't stop Angus Fraser having a good career but what happens when it's flat and hot abroad?
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Trj proving he can get wickets as he has done for a while on the county circuit.
It didn't stop Angus Fraser having a good career but what happens when it's flat and hot abroad?
To be fair - it's bloody flat at Lord's, and he's done well enough there to get in the England side.
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Good point that Edge.
He's no mug with the bat either
In fact looking at our middle lower order it could be the best in world cricket
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In fact looking at our middle lower order it could be the best in world cricket
Possibly not at batting to save a Test match?
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Possibly not at batting to save a Test match?
True but if you take out Asian flat tracks in favour of batsmen I'm not sure which other test team is more capable
I'm discounting 400 plays 700 plays 500 in Colombo.
One day cricket has changed test batting for good and bad depending on your viewpoint
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It's hard to argue about the middle order right now, time and time again one of them has dragged us out of the proverbials
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Absolutely
Mo Ali at 8 is well....a gift from the cricket gods
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Hales hundred and plenty off not many
And hasseb plenty of balls but not many runs
Both not out
That's the beauty of the game :)
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Absolutely massive wicket from Mo there getting Amla
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Absolutely massive wicket from Mo there getting Amla
Pretty much nailed on for man of the series right?
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I'd say so. And De Kock has fallen!
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MOEEN <3
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Moeen :*)
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Moneen Ali Englands probably Englands best number eight ever.
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Get Hales in the side!
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(http://i.imgur.com/PyM5CPs.gif)
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What a spell from part time spinner? ;)
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What a series he's had!! I hope he continues it into the Ashes :D
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Has he realised he is better than Dawson and therefore is now number 1 spinner ?
:)
Or do they tell him he is number 2 still but no one is better than him so they don't pick another spinner?
However it works we don't care
What a match for Mo
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What a series he's had!! I hope he continues it into the Ashes :D
Can't wait for the Ashes. Moeen will struggle, everybody will pile on and say rubbish like "What do you expect from a bits and pieces player in Australia? He's no Graeme Swann".
Then of course, they'll all crawl back under their rocks when someone points out that Swann averaged 52 over 8 tests in Australia before retiring halfway through a series to ensure his test average stayed below 30.
Has he realised he is better than Dawson and therefore is now number 1 spinner ?
:)
Or do they tell him he is number 2 still but no one is better than him so they don't pick another spinner?
However it works we don't care
What a match for Mo
None of it ever made a difference to Moeen, the whole number two spinner nonsense was just Bayliss trying to be clever and justify his salary.
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250 runs and 25 wickets in a series has happened nine times in test history.
Moeen is the only one to do it in a 4 test series. :*)
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Brilliant stuff from Mo and thrilling batting.
We still need to sort the batting out but he can play with freedom at number 8 and it suits him.
Not sure what we will do now batting wise but that's a good win against a good side.
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Well played England and well played mo. Deserved man of the series.
Interesting that game was sorobably set up in the 1st innings by our number 7, who wants to bat higher. And the. Driven home by our number 8 in innings to, who wants to bat higher........
Anyway, is jennings done?
Is malan good enough?
Westley being the better of the 3 got himself a longer stay?
Will ballance return?
Does hameeds 71 not out from 214 balls mean he's back in form?
Does Hales 218 in division 2 matter at all?
Batting needs answers
Does woakes come back in for trj? Or do we use the 4 to rotate and rest plays to keep them fresh?
Our bowling looks better. Settled to me, despite wus having apparently 8 batsman.
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I feel Hashim Amla's career is coming to an end. I suspect this is the last year we'll watch him play. Faf is the only man standing from the Smith era.
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Think Westley's appearance at the crease more than his actual performance will get him more chances, he seemed to take to it very well, albeit with some issues with the ball outside off stump.
I don't see how Jennings can stay, you can't carry passengers in Oz and he was very poor. He relies on too much luck to get any resemblance of runs, having been dropped on his way to 100 in India and a couple of times in this series.
Malan I think was always a short term stop gap until Ballance was fit enough to come back at 5, think England wanted a look at him as they are looking for an extra batsman for the Ashes tour and he's unfortunately not stepped up to the grade.
As before it leaves a shootout between Hammed & Stoneman to open with Cook as the only selection dilemma Wngland have in my opinion. Woakes will replace TRJ (quicker/better bowler) but I can see Anderson missing some games in Oz. What a tail that would give England! Mo 8, Woakes 9, TRJ 10, Broad 11....