You've got to play your best bowlers, therefore Finn should play.
Based on recent form you wouldn't have Smith in there....Cook is a long way ahead of him... ;)
Kallis is a class player though.
does not make him a bad player, does it? No more than a statistical anomaly!
thats a big call to make!
The best combined 11 imo would be:
Smith
Cook
Trott
Amla
Pietersen
Kallis
Prior
Swann
Broad
Anderson
Steyn
I would go for
Cook
Amla
Trott
Pietersen
Kallis
AB
Prior
Swann
Broad
Anderson
Steyn
This makes it seem like England are far superior however as stated previously, when the Saffers have better players, the difference is far larger than when England have the better players. For example Steyn is a considerable amount better than Anderson whereas Broad is only just better than Philander.
IMO Steyn is nowhere near a considerable amount better than Anderson, if at all better...
Anyone else severely disappointed at this being a 3 test series?
Steyn is out and sun has hit south-east London - what a mouthwatering prospect!
England win toss and Bat - big decision. Personally I would've bowled with the weather around.
Sounds like SA's bowlers are resorting to their usual tactics of trying to bore a batsman out. Wrong 2 guys to play that trick on!
I think spell check got the better of him!
Normal and Strum? nice
Few ales Tim?Ales, sparkly stuff and a couple of wines! Good day out though.
Is that Michael Vaughan above the beer snake? Or am I not awake yet?
Should have kept Bairstow in the team
nah, he needs to go work on some issues then come back, Bopara was the right choice given his ODI form and Morgan's poor winter, but I still don't think he's good enough. We've a head of depth in bowling but an England second XI would be a pretty weak batting side.
There are tons of good English county batsmen, the problem is most of them seem to struggle to make the step up when facing international standard bowling. A good example of this how the England Lions were torn apart by the England first team. The only way we are going to produce better county players who can deal with international standard bowling is to improve the quality of bowling in the county game.
England have looked very flat and allowed the South Africans to play the game their way, they need to put the pressure back on and stop bowling so many on leg.
England First XI batting line up would be pretty weak...if you take out the South Africans. :)
My thoughts exactly.Thought about putting this up on Thursday. Brings me to an interesting point. Why are so many South Africans who couldn't cut it In SA and who then move over to England doing so well in county cricket and then even end up playing for England? Pietersen, Trott, Tendoschate, Moore etc.
Are they simply getting more opportunities or is the County standard a bit lower? I know this might rub some people up the wrong way but the amount of SAffers who go over and make it is fairly high.
this match if anything proves what a brilliant waste of space Stuart Broad is, England could easily replace him for Finn who is taller, instead of the popular Bresnan/Bopara, Bresnan who seems a better bowler and batsmen for that matter, if they want balance they need to stop looking at the name and look at the talentAre you kidding me? In his last 11 tests he's taken 54 wickets at 20! He EVEN did well in the UAE against Pakistan, taking 13 wickets at 20! He's been a revelation since the India series last year. He may not be to everyone's taste as a character, but you cannot deny his ability, and his ability to take wickets. Anderson, Broad, Bresnan, Finn, Swann should be the bowling, personally. Leave out Rav, bat Prior at 6.
Actually not so sure about that. Pietersen never got into his provincial side, the quota system was stil only starting off and only 1 or 2 previously disadvantaged players were required per side, and Trott was not able to get a franchise contract.
Was actually speaking about other guys who also couldn't make I over here who have gone to the UK and are now playing county cricket as well.
Just an interesting anomaly.
There are tons of good English county batsmen, the problem is most of them seem to struggle to make the step up when facing international standard bowling. A good example of this how the England Lions were torn apart by the England first team.
I suspect the same would happen in any club, county etc - if you give team A the first pick of a pool of players well known to them, you'd expect that the resulting side would be stronger than the best of whatever is left, no?
Especially so in one day cricket, where the England "A" side has lots of international experience and takes the big hitters, whilst the B side is inexperienced, filled with young lads unfamiliar with the format and has its hitters taken away to the A side. No, the result was not ina ny way surprising or representative. Look instead at their creditable performances against other nations A sides and recent touring teams!
Unfamiliar with the format? I'm pretty certain every Cricketer in the world understands 50 over cricket.. The Lions aren't just a random group of young players put together, they are some of the best players in England. The Lions had the likes of James Taylor, Joe Root, Alex Hales and Jonny Bairstow who are expected to be key parts of the England team in a few years, yet against international standard bowling they crumbled.
It shows that there is a massive gap between the Lions and the first team which is not good as it is competition which creates great teams.
What an incredible days cricket. Amla and Kallis had to be stopped only by a declaration!
I cant believe that the mighty Hashim Amla managed to plunder 300 runs and he is actually fasting for Ramadan.
Is there any truth in this as surely this beggars belief ??
Surely Finn in for the next test. Surely.
George Dobell certainly has the faith to put his nuts on the line.
I think SA should wrap this game up by tea.
I really hope that Bell and Bopara can do well today, but the reality is that it will not be enough.
awesome toss to lose I think. brilliant batting. the way amla and kallis batted against swann was a masterclass in playing spin with no risk.
I wish that Bopara did himself justice in this Test. I don't know why he doesn't succeed. Is it mental strength, ability (doubtful) or just bad luck? It seems its always when he puts on an England test shirt!
Well he's managed to get himself out playing on from one outside off in a game situation where all he needs to do is survive.
Like you, I'm a fan of his, think he's a very talented lad, just get the impression that he feels he has to prove himself so tries to force things. Hopefully they'll stand by him for the series though, so he'll get a crack at this again.
Why is always Bresnan and never Broad that looks at getting dropped?
Bresnan is a better bat, bowls quicker, and probably (without looked) as a better bowling avaerage
IMO Steyn is nowhere near a considerable amount better than Anderson, if at all better...
Where they seem to be falling down is against teams with batsmen who are happy to play the waiting game, like Amla, Smith, Kallis, Azhar Ali, Shafiq, etc. and it becomes a real battle of attrition. Then when they bat it seems that this effects them as their precious game plan has been metaphorically widdled on.I think what was telling was the discussion that Athers had with Strauss on Saturday, when he said that he (and flower) sets fields to bore out batsmen who like to play their strokes so they will play a false stroke. Well the South African batsmen don't get bored, so setting fields like that makes it very hard to get them out and they simply accumulate runs. The alternate view is that that approach works pretty well against England...!
so Swan is ranked up there in the top 3 spinners in the world and can bowl like this: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0N4VL7MYqo [/url] and [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaGWOvWMDDc [/url] and while Pakistan may not be what you consider 'quality' Australia definitely are, especially Ponting, who will probably go down in history as one of the greatest batsmen, while I agree on not dropping Bresnan and bringing in Finn and Tremlet, dropping Anderson, who, if you asked 500 people who the greatest English bowler of the last decade, they would probably all say, Anderson. To be perfectly honest, yes there is work to do, the selection I feel is almost perfect, I mean you look at pound for pound, the amount of talent in the teams is almost exactly equal, for example, Cook and Smith, Trott and Amla, Bell and Devilliers, at the end of the day it cam down to who wanted it more, and that was SA....
Interesting post vic.im a diehard england fan, that is ive been abroad to support our great team,only back then we were rubbish.lost 3-1 in australia and after we lost in 100 degree heat we went on the lash in melbourne got drunk under the table by some aussie girls and my life was saved in the gents toilets after i passed out after 10 straight vb,s.the same girls slapped the life out of me until i came round.
England are number 1 on the same basis every other team is 2 or 3 or 4. Your 100 per cent right on bres and also right we have to win in india to be genuinely the worlds best team.but right now SA have deserved their win and we are in a dogfight.england will come back strong.
The best English bowling attack of the last decade was that which won the Ashes in 2005.
The best English bowling attack of the last decade was that which won the Ashes in 2005.
That was the best pace attack we have ever had, no way could you say Ashley Giles is anywhere near the best spinner we have had. I think even Kevin Pietersen is a better spinner than Giles was..We've had this discussion before - I think it was prior to or round about the last Ashes series....
Vic, saying Anderson is average is the perfect example of someone who spends too much time looking at stats and not enough time watching cricket. His high average is due to the way he was handled at the start of his career(when he was rushed in to the team due to Jones' injury) however these last few years he has been very good and one of the main reasons why England got to number 1. I'm not saying he is as good as Steyn or Jones however he is crtainly far better than "Mediocre"..
The notion that Anderson is a mediocre bowler is borderline delusional
Anderson can join Flintoff and Harmison as English bowling legends - all with + 30 bowling averages.
Anderson WILL retire with a bowling average the wrong side of 30.
Ditto Swan and Broad.
Steven Finn and Tremlett are the best of your bowlers with Bresnan not far behind them.
It's obvious that vic enjoys trying to wind the the Brits up!! Cos if he had the slightest notion of what he was talking about, he'd know the stats already!
Anyway, onto more important things! Amla.....how class did he look! He is one of my favourite batsman to watch!!
And heaven knows we have had enough time to watch him bat this week! ;)
It's obvious that vic enjoys trying to wind the the Brits up!! Cos if he had the slightest notion of what he was talking about, he'd know the stats already!
Anyway, onto more important things! Amla.....how class did he look! He is one of my favourite batsman to watch!!
And heaven knows we have had enough time to watch him bat this week! ;)
Vic have you been in the pub?
Comparing Mitchell Johnson to Jimmy Anderson is utterly outrageous, Johnson bowled with out control and completely erratic, he, was a terrible test bowler, not just mediocre.
People do bowl without luck, if you personally bowl 6 jaffas in an over, and 3 of them find the edge and get through slips for 4, would you not feel hard done to and think you've had no luck?
Mike Hendrick was way better than Anderson and Broad...better than Botham too, I might add, but is largely forgotten these days because he flew under the radar.
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/14159.html[/url]
Mate, I wasn't comparing him favourably to Anderson.
I am just making the obvious elephant-in-the-room observation that MJ has a similar average to Anderson and a better average than Broad.
That is FACT.
Mitchell Johnson will never play another test for Australia, where Anderson is lauded as an all time great.
That is not a FACT, his average is higher than Broads and you are being a fool, now that is a FACT.
I think Hendo was an excellent bowler for England and very underrated. However, though perhaps no yardstick of consistent performance, I'm not sure if he got any fivfers at test level, which some might see as a problem.
I think it also comes down to who you have bowling alongside you. Inevitably batsmen will have to take some of the bowlers on, and it can lead to wickets falling to what you might not term the main strike bowlers. Ridiculous as it might seem, the great Joel Garner might not be rated as the main spearhead of the Windies attack back then. Other attributes (of which there were many) apart, his pace was maybe a bit below the others (though still very sharp) - so maybe the batsmen had to try to take a few more liberties with him than was wise?
This is a thread about the battle for No.1 test team in the world, why are we talking about Australia?
Could anyone manage to find a stat that would show Broad's, Anderson's and Mark Johnson's (think thats what he was called) average over the last two years? I'm sure Broad had 54 wickets @ 18 or something.
Another bitter Aussie finding something to moan about because they can't stand us being number 1 :D
We've had this discussion before - I think it was prior to or round about the last Ashes series....
Vic, I'll settle for 600-odd for 2 boring any old day! :D
Another bitter Aussie finding something to moan about because they can't stand us being number 1 :D
You will lose to South Africa.
Then you will lose in India.
That will be circa 7 to 8 losses for teh year of 2012.
Kiss number one goodbye while you can - because your "20 year reign of dominance" (the popular consensus in here 7 or 8 months ago) will have ended a year after it started.
Blah Blah Blah, just can't stand England having successTHIS.
Blah Blah Blah, just can't stand England having success
Against who?
Banglas? Pakis in England? The hapless Indian batsmen?
I do not expect that stat to last.
Anderson and Broad were exposed by the Saffers.
To attempt to denigrate the South African batsmen as "boring" is a bit rich coming from Poms who gave the world Boycott, Tavare, Hutton, Bailey and now the imported Trott.
You were weighed, measured and found wanting.
I joined this forum February 2011 - after the most recent Ashes.To be honest Vic, I couldn't be bothered to go back and search, but on the basis of your comment, it was during the discussion about India v Australia and then later England in Sri Lanka, so my assertion is correct.
So it does not lend any credence to your assertion.
Vic this who against, since our 5 -0 drubbing by Australia in 06/07 England have played 20 Test series winning 12, Drawing 2 and losing 6, if you want to go on more recent form then in the last 2 years they have only lost once to Pakistan.
As you seem so keen on them here are the stats;
[url]http://stats.espncricinfo.com/england/engine/records/team/series_results.html?class=1;id=1;type=team[/url]
To be honest Vic, I couldn't be bothered to go back and search, but on the basis of your comment, it was during the discussion about India v Australia and then later England in Sri Lanka, so my assertion is correct.
This is the same discussion covering the same ground with both sides making more or less the same points with a few extra games in place and we seem to be no further on!
Simply my timing that was out.
Watching what has been some very exciting Test cricket over the lasst few months it has become apparent that there are a lot of very average Test teams around the world at the moment and one very good one. Most of the top tier of Test teams have some gaping holes in their line ups.
Australia: Promising bowling attack, but an inexperienced top order, and players that routinely struggle against the moving ball. A wicketkeeper who is a liability.
India: An ageing batting line up with an opener (Gambhir) who looks all at sea, and a bowling attack that lacks firepower
South Africa: Lacking an opening batsman and a decent no. 6. Wicketkeeper is finished as a Test batsman.
Sri Lanka: Bowling attack missing the stars of Murali, Malinga and Vaas, and a captain who barely deserves a place in the batting order
Pakistan: Promising side but hurt by the fact that they can't play at home at the moment, and a batting line up that lacks inspiration
England: The only hole in the side would appear to be at no. 6 but there are a host of top quality young batsmen waiting to fill the spot. Top 5 batters are world class, and the best keeper/batsman in world cricket (now Sangakkara doesn't keep anymore). Best spinner in the world, and a conveyor belt of excellent seam bowlers who can bowl well in all conditions in Test cricket.
Vic - did a Pom give you an absolute slapping or bully you in the past?
I'm wonderig as you are showing so much bitterness that it's really showing through? ???
I like your posts Vic.
It wouldn't surpise me at all that in 5 year time the top 4 teams will be
England
Australia
West Indies
Pakistan
TBH Vic you took some of the words out of my mouth. There is no such thing as a dynasty in any sport. Players age - some are impossible to replace like for like (Warne?) so you have to enjoy the good times when you can. It's the same in football. Ferguson criticised for not replacing Roy Keane - but with who? The best you can hope for is a decent infrastructure, which Australia appear to have, the Windies obviously not. I think England have learned from Australia in this, which is why they are usually tough to beat these days. The heartening aspect of England in recent years is that like Aus teams for as long as I can remember, just when you think you have them on the ropes they are capable of proving otherwise.
South Africa have some gifted young bats coming through, and years left in their bowling attack too. Granted replacing Kallis would be nigh on impossible, flawless technique like that is so rare. The likes of Miller, Levi could step up from limited overs cricket, and there are some quality young bats coming through like Rossouw and the Smuts brothers.
South Africa have some gifted young bats coming through, and years left in their bowling attack too. Granted replacing Kallis would be nigh on impossible, flawless technique like that is so rare. The likes of Miller, Levi could step up from limited overs cricket, and there are some quality young bats coming through like Rossouw and the Smuts brothers.And the rest, Quinton de Kock, Dean Elgar, Faf du Plessis, Stiaan Van Zyl, Reeza Hendricks to name a few decent bats!
And the rest, Quinton de Kock, Dean Elgar, Faf du Plessis, Stiaan Van Zyl, Reeza Hendricks to name a few decent bats!
Fleet Street will go into meltdown if Smuts and De Kock put on a big stand!
As a die hard cricket fan and a passionate Australian spporter I do get frustrated with comments coming from frustrated Australians clinging to once dominance, when truth be told we've got the worst stocks and team on par with say, th English Team of the 90s, we need new effetive players in all honesty.
As a cricket fan I do think the English teamis hyped up a lot, there is truth when saying Broad is rubbish, Finn who is taller and faster could play and intimadory role much better, sand frankly looking at Bresnan you can see the smart variotions he puts ona ball. Simply when you look at a bowlers you can tell how effrective and how serious a threat they are, sort of how i feel about HILFY likewise. However bashing comments about Anderson are unwarranted, you don't need averages to look at a bowler and say "WOW, the batsmen are in trouble here". I think he was av eraging 40 at one stage, anyone who knows how averages work will know it's going to take a long time for them to gradually go down.
All said and done, this English teamis Organised, do they have talent? Yes, but truth be told they have many weaknesses, mainly for me, both Styruass and Cooks problem of driving the full ball, they're not particualrly strong drivers, more of the cutting or pulling type, other than that the rest of the batsmens problems, Pietersen especially are lacking temprement and that's all, coupled with Swann and Bresnan wit the bat they're a formidable prospect, not to mention Anderson being a thorn to remove :P
Are they the best side in the past 3 years? Well they're pretty close, and this series should answer this, so sit back and enjoy, there's no doubt England will put up a fight in the nex test, intresting to see if they stick with Bopara who could do with how the Australian selectors have approached young, very capable batsmen, communication and faith :)
Phew!
That was as jingoistic as I could make it!
Hahaha! Although if we were to recruit some of the young SA bats you mentioned they now need to live in England for 7 years, compared to the 4 it has been, so unless any of them are under 17...
[url]http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=17497.msg280598#msg280598[/url]
Seven years???
WOW!
That chamges the whole ball game now.
I know we'll have to start cradle snatching the blighters now! :D :D :D :D :D
I think you always mature as a bowler far earlier than you do as a batsman. It would be impossible to predict from a bunch of 19 year olds which of them will make it at the top level of cricket.
crap - I played against Michael Vaughan when we were both 14. You could tell...
...and my side included three lads who went on to have decent professional careers and Liam Botham!
Vics posts make good reading, some really interesting analysis there and great food for thought.
On a 95% UK forum there is bound to be some biased views and I enjoy Vics opinions of which many I agree with.
After years of mediocrity England have had a good run over the last 2 years and some supporters are being short sighted.
The trick is to keep it going for 7 which is where most teams come unstuck.
I appreciate good cricket and generally support the underdog which is why ive supported England but flippin heck ive enjoyed watching the Saffas over the last 5 days. I do agree that SA will win this series and India will nail England this winter. England have some phenomenal talent in depth but then so do SA and Australia. 2013 will be a very interesting year.
crap - I played against Michael Vaughan when we were both 14. You could tell...
...and my side included three lads who went on to have decent professional careers and Liam Botham!
His series down here circa 2003 was something out of this world for its quality and the strength of the bowling attack it was achieved against.I watched him score 150 in syndey, it was some of the finest batting I have seen.
He won man of the series in a losing side.
Incredible.
Do you guys not think your being a little harsh on your team... It seems most folk on here are news paper editors. As soon as things get tough most folk are calling for heads to roll. :o
I feel the years of dominance in world cricket are over (ie the golden days of Aussie >:() and I firmly believe that England are slowly coming to the end of the purple run of form. You lot have been a fantastic team for a few years but you cant win forever and as said already if you look at the last years results you guys have not really performed like a number 1 team in the world... I think after this series its time to boot the older boys and start playing the young guns waiting in the wings...
If any player should be dropped I think it should be KP who always seems to be in the papers for the wrong reasons.. IMHO the sooner he gets kicked out the team the better for England. I know the man is an electrifying bat but a player cant be bigger than a team...
England came up against a very determined South African team. You have to remember we have been chasing the No 1 spot for as long as you guys have held it.. We almost had it on our tour of New Zealand but the rain saved you guys in the end. :(
Lets hope the rain does not have a say in this series ;)
seaem age and able to mature together.
There are two types of teams who make it to #1:
1/ A young team that is blossoming and grabs poll position after a series of excellent performances.
OR:
2/ An essentially older combination that caps off a sustained assualt on the #1 position by years of planning and preperation.
The English team that beat the brains out of Australia and then India to grab #1 were the latter type of number one. Paradoxically, the Australian and Indian teams they massacred were actually even older because both countries made the mistake of holding onto many over the hill players who had made them #1 in the past.
The imperceptable slide by England this year had at first gone barely noticed because it was thought to be merely a a hiccup in the overall scheme of things. However, there have been signs since even the all conquering India series last summer that inspite of reaching teh summit, it was not going to be an especially long stay.
Graeme Swan the barometer in the build up to the assualt on attaining the summit of #1, had an ordinary Ashes series and even more ordinary summer against the Indians. So while his collegues were filling their boots against Australia then India, he was merely serviceable.
In 2012 Swan has performed like a castrati and has perhaps, one or at best, two years left as a productive test cricketer.
Despite being a level headed, if somewhat unimaginative, captain, Strauss has been sliding with the bat and only a dead cat bounce series against the West Indians with the bat has saved him from the ignonimy of critics calling for his head due to lack of runs. The reality is that inspite of the very recent success, Strauss is on the steep decline as a test batsman and there is no shame in that, because the man is 36 afterall and given many years good service.
Jonothan Trott's career has followed a similar trajectory to that of Mike Hussey's in that both burst into test ranks late and with massive impact scoring mountains of runs. Both after a couple of years as successful test batsmen were eventually "worked out" by opposition bowlers and while they still score runs (they are both class players afterall), their output has come down to more mortal standards.
When you consider the above, the England team that was demolishing India last summer was already in need of a freshen up, but it is hard to change a winning combination and even harder still to change one that has clean swept a series against the former number 1's and grabbed the coveted number 1 spot itself.
If England loses this series and underwhelms in India, then the changes you would be looking at are as follows:
Cook, Bell and Trott are the core batsmen to rebuild the batting line up around. Pietersen still has some good years left in him, but he has also been on a steep decline over the last two years as well with the odd day out which reminds us of his rich talent.
So by the end of this year England need a new #6 (urgently) and a new opening partner for Cook (less urgent, but required sooner rather than later).
In terms of bowlers, the outllok is a fair bit brighter. Finn is just starting out, Broad is young un and Bresnan is hardly an oldy, so that is three that have many years ahead and all three a very good. Tremlett is the most dangerous paceman, but he is already 30 and injury prone, so best not to plan too much around him. He is a luxury, but one that cannot be relied upon for any length of time.
Anderson is the conundrum here. Despite his excellent service over the last two and a bit years, he has noticeably lost a yard of pace this summer. Much like Stuart Clark who had a huge two years of test cricket, once he lost that yard of pace, much of the sting went out of his bowling. While he was still very good, he was no longer the threat he once was.
England still has enough reserves in stock that unless the selectors fall asleep at the wheel, realistically England will maintain a top 2-3 position (if not #1) for a while yet.
Complacency is a big danger though and the lessons are there before your eyes.
What a joke, typical aussie umpires ;)
Smith clipped a half volley to square leg & then Petersen decided to run out Amla :D
Rudolphs Dynadrive is looking sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet!
Doesn't look a great decision leaving Swann out after Pietersen is getting it to rip!
And how will Cook bat?
After dropping AP when he was on 29, Cook owes the kitty at least 150+ runs! :(
That was possibly the most expensive drop I've seen in a while!!!!
He nearly did you proud! Still, I would take 182 any day!
All these laws are changing does that mean we will see bell in an ayrtek again ??
Has anyone got a stream for this that will show the lunch break?I've got one now :)
Not sure who that's directed at Tail Ender, or what it's in reference to
Twitter awash with the story that KP has played his last game for England.... Fair way to go out.
He likes the limelight far too much to give up international cricket completely just yet!
I think England will win. A happy side is better than a talented side, I know from experience.A happy, talented side is best!
I think England will win. A happy side is better than a talented side, I know from experience.
They've dropped Bresnan
BBC seem to have changed their minds!!
I'm a big fan of big Tim, but I think Finn is likely to make a bigger impact as a bowler and gives the attack a bit more variation. Would still have preferred a 5 man attack
Wicket! Smith Out!
Sounds like it was a poor shot rather than a decent ball?All that matters is he is out...
Snicko said that Kallis hit it, although I'm not sure how the 4th Umpire would be able to tell that...
It touched his glove clearly.
But his glove was off the bat - clearly.
Out of interest, why is that the rule?It will be something to do with continuous contact with the bat...
After being left out here, Onions is back in durham. Just taken all 10 wickets against Notts ( fer and a run out!)That's pretty impressive...
Time for trotty to step up.
I wonder if Prior gets a ton he'll decidate it to IJC?
Haha, maybe that might at least inspire a 'thank you', which we've still yet to receive, by the way...
I take it cooks dismissal was pretty bad going on cricinfo's live commentary!!!
Anyone caught a glimpse of the grips yet?They must still be in the dressing room as he is using a white grip
They must still be in the dressing room as he is using a white grip
Interestingly enough Finn thinks England have gotten themself into a position from which they can win the match, that's youthful optimism if I ever saw it!I have to agree if bell and trott can survive the first 40 - 60 min tomorro I will be hopefull .
I actually think fighting for a draw is very important tomorrow. Assuming there isn't a miracle England will have won only 3 from 11 in 2012 (2 of those vs windies at home!)
Essentially this is a side in no real form with some important series to come. Add to that the fact they are a side in transition - Pietersen gone for a while (hopefully) no established no. 6, probably needing to 'rest' Broad for both his bowling and to break up the 'clique'
Openers unable to score runs etc.
Think a battling draw would do wonders - far better to end the test season on a more positive note and address these issues than following another drubbing.
Looks like we can win this, provided we don't lose a couple of quick wickets.I think we can as well, Trott is the key though I think. He needs to just stay there and keep the scoreboard ticking over and rotating the strike. Bairstow is on a roll here, with him going like this and if Prior is on form then the runs shouldn't be a problem, just the wickets.
Preferably get as close as possible before the new ball is due. Can't see us getting more than 50 if the new ball is available when the tail comes in...
Wećve gone from dropping half the team to deciding it's practically in the bag in the space of an hour!Gotta stay positive fella!
Wećve gone from dropping half the team to deciding it's practically in the bag in the space of an hour!
I can hear the fat lady singing...I could here her singing yesterday...
fat lady is singing, well played saffas.I feel it is more "the Last Post" than anything more joyful from an English point of view.
Surely if Prior and Broad bat another hour it will be squeaky bum time .... or am I kidding myself?Kallis has struck! Now it's all down to Prior and Swann to put something together to take us home, one can hope!
Any chance of someone doing a Tino?Or an Andre Russell!
i dont rate Australia chances at all there bowling is poor at bestNo neither do I, but with Vic around I couldn't be bothered to give him ammo, and look like a blinkered Englishman lol thinking that we have a divine right to go back to #1, which I don't necessarily agree with.
There only quality bowler is injured and young
Broad should be looking at his test place, done minimal with the ball and ok with the bat.
Broad I think needs a break and then try hitting the 90mph mark again...
It's not a dream number4, aussies are as good as both these sides, it just comes down to the perforance on the day ( as long as they don't bring Johnson back in of course )
....I think England are 3rd now... Behind Oz!
Very well deserved. In this series, definitely outplayed us! Truly a number 1 team, absolute class! Probably fair to say that England are deservedly number 2 in the world (although I'm sure Vic disagrees). How long will they keep it up mind? With their team perhaps in a similair position to England last year, and India the year before, although perhaps they are just that bit younger!
Well played SA, a great team to watch!
I dream a dream... Aus beats SA 2-1 and takes back number 1 ranking ;) :D
Not quite.
Australia at present would not beat either SA or England
Bowling is improving heaps, but batting is brittle and relying on old blokes.
Until the next young Aussie batting sensation is prepared to stand up and make some scores, then really, it will be a case of the bowlers knocking over the opposition and then the batsmen pissing the advantage up the wall.
I'm not being facetious in asking this, but do you think just getting to #1 was enough for England? All the work they put in and players they brought on in trying to gain that #1 ranking and then finally getting it, do you think they got complacent and thought "well we've done what we wanted"? Or is it deeper than that? Genuinely interested to hear what people think.
England played like what they are, the second best team in the world at the end of a performance cycle.
Yup....spot on assessment. Out bowled, batted and fielded. No where to hide, possibly a freshening up of the squad then go again. Anyone who lacks the appetite for it gets left behind...
I agree about bringing in some new faces, but how far do you go? Taylor and Bairstow are already in how many more changes do you make without upsetting the balance of the team, new players need time to bed in, a lot of this just seems like pressing the panic button.
Who are Australia Quality bowlers??????
I can only think of 1 and he is injured and very inexperienced???
England do not need to change much were not that bad we just got beat by a better team in all departments.
We got to see 2 new test players and one has made the step up hopefully..
Agree with Nick to much overreaction
The Aussie's have big issue with both bat and bowl i follow shield cricket it not all rosy over there
Thanks Vic but I am quite comfortable with my knowledge of cricket and the way I form an opinion. I understand you like to come across as a font of knowledge but it's quite clear from your posts that your opinions are based on trolling the internet and rumours spread amongst forums.
Ahhh the Vic we know and love ;) well said
Well, it won't stop me praying every night that we DO beat SA this summer and England next winter.
I just don't see it happening. :(
Wasn't it good to see the U19's win their semi final today? :)
What did you make of the Mankading?
Not onvinced that there is much in our Under 19s for anyone to fear this year - though oddly a couple of the best ones have been lft in the county game, which noone has been able to explain!
I find Mankading distasteful.
Others may disagree..
A warning not to do it again should be the way.
Who are Australia Quality bowlers??????
I can only think of 1 and he is injured and very inexperienced???
The Aussie's have big issue with both bat and bowl i follow shield cricket it not all rosy over there
saw Coulter Nile in the A test - he wouldn't scare my grandma!
I have a feeling that his SA team might well be stronger than the England one that rose to the top of the tree last year!
Each of them is auditioning for the title of Australia's Darren Anderton though...
Anybody know how many runs Amla has scored on this tour. I have a bet running witht the wife
Still not sure why ontong is playing for SA
I can tell you it's nothing to do with his ability..... ;)