Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Latest Matches => Topic started by: dilscoop on July 07, 2014, 05:30:18 PM
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What are the key battles in the 1st test
First lets predict the two sides if we dont mind ?
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England
Cook
Robson
Ballance
Bell
Root
Ali
Stokes
Prior
Plunket
Broad
Anderson
I won't bother trying to guess India's side as I don't have a scooby.
England to get dicked 3-1
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Dhoni, Pujara, Kohli, Ashwin, Ishant, Rohit, Shami, Bhuvneshvar, Binny, Murli.
2nd opener Dhawan or Gambhir can't call between the two as I would like to retain a left right combo at the top otherwise i'd pick both of these lefties before Murli.
Cook, Prior,Bell, Robson,root, stokes, Ali, Anderson,Broad,Plunkett,Jordan
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Dhoni, Pujara, Kohli, Ashwin, Ishant, Rohit, Shami, Bhuvneshvar, Binny, Murli.
2nd opener Dhawan or Gambhir can't call between the two as I would like to retain a left right combo at the top otherwise i'd pick both of these lefties before Murli.
Cook, Prior,Bell, Robson,root, stokes, Ali, Anderson,Broad,Plunkett,Jordan
5 seamers & another new number 3 due to no Ballance?? ???
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5 seamers & another new number 3 due to no Ballance?? ???
My bad..I don't follow England as closely as you do mostly just scores and results. Yes Ballance did good against SL so he gets in. Who would you pull out of the 11 above?
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Broad Vs Kohli: I can see this battle a mile off.
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England to win the series.
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My bad..I don't follow England as closely as you do mostly just scores and results. Yes Ballance did good against SL so he gets in. Who would you pull out of the 11 above?
Stokes is only just returning and Jordan did okay without setting the world alight so one of those two. Jordan for me as Stokes is more of an X Factor player.
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Anderson v Kohli would be much better in my eyes
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I have a feeling Kholi is not going to click, but I have my eye on Pujara vs. Anderson
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England
- Cook, Robson, Ballance, Bell, Root, Ali, Prior, Stokes, Broad, Plunkett, Anderson
Not sure what line up India will go with, but I'm going to predict a 2-1 win for India.
Bold prediction? Cook scores a double hundred.
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India's got no chance with that bowling line up unless the pitches are going to turn!
Openers are walking wickets anyway
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India's got no chance with that bowling line up unless the pitches are going to turn!
Openers are walking wickets anyway
Same goes for england openers....and especially if they cant even beat sri lanka on their home turf...truly embarrassing !!!!!!!
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I predict at least 2 crooked bowlers and an Indian win.
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Same goes for england openers....and especially if they cant even beat sri lanka on their home turf...truly embarrassing !!!!!!!
Sri Lanka had much better batting line-up and much experienced which plays vital role in a teams glory especially when you have a young team and are playing offshore.
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I just have this gut-instinct that England are going to do well. I think our bowlers are going to come to the party and will surprisingly be too much for the Indian super top-order.
I think we'll get runs, but they will be slow and ugly, so some of the cricket may be attritional.
I can't quite put my finger on why, but I do think we will do well.
I think heroes will be Moeen and Root with the bat and Stokes and Anderson with the ball.
Off course, I'm off my tits on mind-altering drugs, but we'll see!
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Buttler added to squad as prior struggled in training yesterday.
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Pujara time to prove he is truely world class...
England to come firing back.
2-2
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I guess no DRS as usual with Indians in this series , ridiculous .
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Pujara to have a big series for India and Root a big one for England I also think Ali (batting) will push on in this series.
The bowling will depend on the pitches, if they are dry which it seems they will be due to the much vaunted drainage systems, we could be in all sorts!
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I guess no DRS as usual with Indians in this series , ridiculous .
Shouldn't be a big issue. The technology is helpful at times, but there's no need to be over reliant on it. It corrects some bad decisions, but generally if there are good umpires they will get more correct than wrong without technology, or at least enough to balance things out.
I'm still not 100% convinced with certain parts of DRS. Hot spot isn't always accurate; and there are times when hawk eye says a ball will hit the wickets - for example, a ball that needs to turn sharply to hit the wickets, or hits a player high and needs to not more than barely rise to not got over. It's probably correct that it would, but there is some doubt.
That said, DRS is a useful system. But I'm not convinced it's needed.
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It corrects some bad decisions, but generally if there are good umpires they will get more correct than wrong without technology, or at least enough to balance things out.
Given some of the umpiring that we've seen recently, I'm not sure that the umpiring level will be good enough to not cause issues without DRS.
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^^ without DRS England would have won the first test against SL and probably would have won the series with the moral uplift gained from the first test win , so it is good enough to stick with DRS considering the general umpiring we see these days.
DRS should be used only to get rid of the howler, should not consider as a replacement for umpiring.
As for hotspot , I though using it along side with real time snicko seemed like the 100% foolproof solution .
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Dhoni, Pujara, Kohli, Ashwin, Ishant, Rohit, Shami, Bhuvneshvar, Binny, Murli.
2nd opener Dhawan or Gambhir can't call between the two as I would like to retain a left right combo at the top otherwise i'd pick both of these lefties before Murli.
Cook, Prior,Bell, Robson,root, stokes, Ali, Anderson,Broad,Plunkett,Jordan
I think we can do without M Vijay.
Gambhir, Dhawan, Pujara, Kohli, Rohit (or Rahane), Dhoni, Ashwin, Binny, Bhuvneshwar, Shami, Ishant
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I think we can do without M Vijay.
Gambhir, Dhawan, Pujara, Kohli, Rohit (or Rahane), Dhoni, Ashwin, Binny, Bhuvneshwar, Shami, Ishant
Amit I prefer Rahane over Rohit as he puts a price in his wicket unlike Rohit who tends to settle in and then throw it with a lazy shot.
Dhoni however will go with Rohit.
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Amit I prefer Rahane over Rohit as he puts a price in his wicket unlike Rohit who tends to settle in and then throw it with a lazy shot.
Dhoni however will go with Rohit.
Even my first preference is Rahane but I guess we all know that Rohit will be picked up instead of Rahane .
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Hope the weather is good for tomorrow
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Sri Lanka had much better batting line-up and much experienced which plays vital role in a teams glory especially when you have a young team and are playing offshore.
Sorry but where did SLs batting become so good?
Aside from Sangakarra, the rest where rope a dope the entire series.
And if England could catch, SL would been rolled under 200 in 3 of their 4 innings.
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England's line will be Stokes for Jordan. Stokes just offers a little more in all aspects.
Whereas India I'm guessing they'll go with the following:
1. Vijay 2. Dhawan 3. Pujara 4. Kohli 5. Rahane 6. Dhoni 7. Jadeja 8. Binny/Ashwin 9. Kumar 10. Shami 11. Aaron/Ishant/Pandey
Ashwin is probably a better batsman that any of the bowling all rounders in either side, but his bowling is sh!t over the last 8-10months.
Ishant shouldn't be playing, but Dhoni is too much of a coward to select te more talent Pandey or the pacey Aaron.
I don't see what Binny offers, a poor mans Darren Sammy IMO.
3-0 England. Two draws in London.
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India to win 5-0
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Also my opinion on the Indian bowling, after Vaughan called them 'average' just as Boycott said the same of SLs bowling...
India have three dependable bowlers Shami(pacey, swing and reverse swing), Kumar(swings it massively) and Jadeja(economical SLA spinner and has had success against England in the past).
After that there's a big disparity. Ishant isn't Test class. Pandey hasn't played a Test yet. Aaron has only played 1 Test and is injury prone. Binny? Yeah right... And Ashwin, world beater on his day, village green bowler on most other days.
England can just target the 4th/5th bowlers if they see off Shami and Kumar IMO
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Sorry but where did SLs batting become so good?
Aside from Sangakarra, the rest where rope a dope the entire series.
And if England could catch, SL would been rolled under 200 in 3 of their 4 innings.
Matthews? Did not watch the series?
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Ishant isn't Test class.
I think Ishant has lost some pace, is fragile/injury-prone and hasn't improved over time as you'd expect a bowler with his experience.
Even with all that in mind, he is the only experienced bowler to be in the squad and he'll be looked to lead the attack.
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No yadav just baffles me
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I think Ishant has lost some pace, is fragile/injury-prone and hasn't improved over time as you'd expect a bowler with his experience.
Even with all that in mind, he is the only experienced bowler to be in the squad and he'll be looked to lead the attack.
There where 3 young bowlers whom made their names by the early success against the masterful Ricky Ponting.
These 3 where: Ishant, Southee and Roach.
Whilst two have gone on to fulfil their potential(Southee and Roach)
Ishant lived of the early success against Punter. He now has a rather mediocre Test record. 164 wickets @ 37.
Whereas Southee(120+ wickets at 29) and Roach(100 wickets at 27) have shown what can be achieved with sustained hard work.
Ishant is a waster.
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There where 3 young bowlers whom made their names by the early success against the masterful Ricky Ponting.
These 3 where: Ishant, Southee and Roach.
Whilst two have gone on to fulfil their potential(Southee and Roach)
Ishant lived of the early success against Punter. He now has a rather mediocre Test record. 164 wickets @ 37.
Whereas Southee(120+ wickets at 29) and Roach(100 wickets at 27) have shown what can be achieved with sustained hard work.
Ishant is a waster.
While I agree with all of your points, Ishant has spent a long time bowling on Indian wickets where you might as well give the batsmen throwdowns as quick bowlers are totally wasted. He had so much potential, and has shown bursts of real quality (first innings at Newlands and first innings of the second test in New Zealand), he is incredibly unreliable and if he becomes expensive then it puts too much pressure on the younger Shami and Kumar who I think could show up if the pitches have anything in them for the quicks.
Don't get me wrong, I think Yadav should be there instead of Ishant but his stats aren't too unflattering for an Indian seam bowler.
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Headline of the season so far? :
(http://i.gyazo.com/ab5af456ffa414db0ae5349a32c9f037.png)
Thank god he finally realised!
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harmison debate on sky sports was very interesting
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replace stokes with ballance and put moeen at 3.
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replace stokes with ballance and put moeen at 3.
Weaken the batting even more?
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Stokes is as good a bowler as Jordan (who got in more or less based on ODI form despite basically never proving himself in first class cricket), so should therefore just slot in instead of him in my opinion.
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Expert advice on india playing 11
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/video_audio/758435.html?genre=16 (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/video_audio/758435.html?genre=16)
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It'll be Wor Sturks for Jordan I guess. Ballance should certainly not be dropped!
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Excuses about the pitch are already coming out.
Dry and spinning with England not playing a front line spinner.
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India win the toss and bat first.
They are playing 5 bowlers(if you can consider Ishant and Binny as proper bowlers)
Rohit as been axed. Jadeja is their spinner.
England bring in Stokes for Jordan. The right move.
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For the first session of a test match series, anderson's body language is shocking at the moment
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I don't rate Cook as a brilliant captain but how hard are the groundsmen making it for him to fight for his job? C'mon England, why prepare pitches that suit your opposition more than your own team...?
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It's a mind game, India are regretting now only picking 1 spinner. Ashwin will be depressed he's not playing.
Next test India pick a depressed Ashwin alongside Jadeja only for the track to be a seamers paradise offering nothing for spinners and lose by an innings. :D
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Dravid just said on the bbc text 'it's a beautiful wicket,it could be anywhere in India'
From what I have read of the drainage nowadays(so less days are lost to rain and grounds don't have to refund tickets) there won't really be any green seamers to bowl on much.
Quite right this is not Cook's fault,he may not be a good captain but there's nothing he can do about the pitch
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I think they should have introduced intelligent drainage systems, where, at the turn of the dial, you can allow enough water to remain to create a nice green seamer's paradise or a flat, dead, bunsen. That would have been money well spent...
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In the quest to increase cricket income, the ECB seem to be killing English cricket. Who would want to be a fast bowler on our tracks at the moment. Now watch the Indians turn it square and play 2 spinners for the remainder of the series. What happened to home advantage?!
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Dravid just said on the bbc text 'it's a beautiful wicket,it could be anywhere in India'
From what I have read of the drainage nowadays(so less days are lost to rain and grounds don't have to refund tickets) there won't really be any green seamers to bowl on much.
Quite right this is not Cook's fault,he may not be a good captain but there's nothing he can do about the pitch
Counties can't afford to have three day tests. Got to go into at least the 12th session really to make the money.
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You're absolutley right there Joel...
It does beg the question is there an advantage now playing at home?
Trent bridge should turn days 4 and 5 so we could be up against it first game of the series
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England have really shot themselves in the foot by selecting two half bowlers in Stokes and Ali.
Both are batsmen whom can bowl.
Anderson, Broad and Plunkett are being overworked and will struggle to play 3 Tests out of 5 at this rate.
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The money grabbing ecb have shot England in the foot. It's really not difficult to leave some grass on or water it slightly closer to the game. The wicket doesn't have to be tinder dry to last 5 days or play well from ball one.
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May sound a daft idea but something different needs to happen to make groundsman prepare better pitches.
The ECB need to organise it so that it the game ends on day 4 then the same test teams will play 2x 20/20 games on the last day.
What do they have to loose by playing a couple of T20's instead of a last days play?
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like a beer match :)
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Hello - things seem to be happening now!
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I bet India are regretting not selecting R Ashwin in place of Stuart Binny.
Binny is a clubbie at the very best. Ashwin has two Test hundreds and a fair few wickets as well.
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I think Binny will do good with this bowling, Ashwin is too predictable now...not the same Ashwin 2 years ago
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May sound a daft idea but something different needs to happen to make groundsman prepare better pitches.
The ECB need to organise it so that it the game ends on day 4 then the same test teams will play 2x 20/20 games on the last day.
What do they have to loose by playing a couple of T20's instead of a last days play?
Pretty simple - you prepare the wicket we want or you don't get a test gig. The ECB should though offer to compensate them if the county has to issue refunds on day 4/day 5.
Having been fleeced by the ECB at an ODI last year, I know it's never going to happen. They forced through 15 overs in poor weather to make sure the crowd only got a 50% refund.
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I think Binny will do good with this bowling, Ashwin is too predictable now...not the same Ashwin 2 years ago
If Binny gets any wickets I'll be amazed. He bowls 70mph medium paced dobbers
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Superb effort by number 10 and 11. Credit where it is due. Very sensible.
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Get the feeling the Giles Clarke has been given a bung by his mate Srini to get pitches like this prepared...
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Great effort by Kumar and Shami, helped India recover from the bad start this morning.
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You would be embarrassed if you were one of India's top order/middle order batsmen who failed after watching this display...
Imagine the chat you would get from number 11....
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Anything less than 550 from England and I'd be disappointed. Having said that, my money is on the draw.
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What bat is Shami using?
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The biggest threat to test cricket isn't 20/20 it's these dead tracks!
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What bat is Shami using?
BDM power I believe
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Cook out. Now the fool is getting bowled around his legs!!
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Night watchmens gone. Proper batsmen in now.......
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Ali departs for 14. England 197/5, can India put pressure and force a follow on?
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England in trouble, they need there long tail to perform now!
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Umpires had a shocker there.
Too many howlers not to have ers this game. It's about time people start refusing to host India until they start using drs.
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Oh dear
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India feel like they are playing back home lol
On other note, DRS needs to be enforced!
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Shocking decision for prior dismissal, the ball was miles from the bat. No wonder the BCCI don't want DRS they are bunging the umpires!
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well, Murali Vijay would probably still be batting now but for an error so....maybe not!
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the bung was a joke ;)
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205/7...Dhoni smells the blood now. So called weak Indian bowling attack is coming through for them.
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Here is some great analysis by Chappell on Kohli. I think it's more of an analysis of his personality and it's spot on.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2014/content/video_audio/759391.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2014/content/video_audio/759391.html)
He agrees that Kohli is a show off and arrogant. He has a lot of talent but would go far if he picks up a few things from sachin/dravid about staying grounded.
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He agrees that Kohli is a show off and arrogant. He has a lot of talent but would go far if he picks up a few things from sachin/dravid about staying grounded.
Kohli may be a show off, he may be arrogant but he plays sensible and responsible cricket. When he bats, he bats as if he is the only one who can carry the team through. He needs to continue staying true to himself.
When he is getting runs his demeanour will be called "passion", when he doesn't the same attitude will be called "arrogance".
He is not Sachin and he is not Dravid, he is a sort of a force in his own.
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Too many howlers not to have ers this game. It's about time people start refusing to host India until they start using drs.
Boards all across the globe want to host India as they know that their matches draw in crowds and generate loads of money. I doubt anyone will ever refuse to host India.
DRS should be made compulsory for all cricket, I will agree there but let's not put this a cover on some very ordinary umpiring.
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I didn't say he's not talented. I said he doesn't have to question umpiring decision every other time he gets out. He doesn't have to fight and get into in your face arguments and let his bat do the talking.
There are more than one way to show passion and aggression.
Even the on field passion can be forgiven as a heat of the moment thing but he can tone down his attitude off the field when interacting with fans.
Passion aside dropping catches trying to look good or spectacular is just bad for your team.
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Boards all across the globe want to host India as they know that their matches draw in crowds and generate loads of money. I doubt anyone will ever refuse to host India.
DRS should be made compulsory for all cricket, I will agree there but let's not put this a cover on some very ordinary umpiring.
Cricket was played without DRS for a long time and I don't think it makes much of a difference over a 5 match series as both teams deal with the same set of umpires and mostly get equal share of bad decisions.
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Cricket was played without DRS for a long time and I don't think it makes much of a difference over a 5 match series as both teams deal with the same set of umpires and mostly get equal share of bad decisions.
Why rely on luck when techbology is available, I imagine if you looked at statistically the bad calls probably almost never 'wen themselves out' no matter how many tests you play.
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Is Broad playing with a SH bat?? Looks pretty small on TV
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I don't have sky so can't see, but at his height, I'm sure he uses a long blade?
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Why rely on luck when techbology is available, I imagine if you looked at statistically the bad calls probably almost never 'wen themselves out' no matter how many tests you play.
Why not replace the umpires with robots with all kind of sensors or just a lot of stump cameras with heat sensors, cameras etc..and just give decisions through the Giant screens.
Umpiring is a skill people work hard to acquire and go through rigorous examinations and certification process to reach a level where they can officiate an international Test match. DRS just sends the wrong message to these hardworking people and can put them under a lot of pressure when making a decision. I wouldn't feel comfortable if someone is always standing over my shoulders while I work waiting for a mistake to point it out.
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If England were to loose this test match, the DRS would be the last reason for their loss..
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Why not replace the umpires with robots with all kind of sensors or just a lot of stump cameras with heat sensors, cameras etc..and just give decisions through the Giant screens.
Umpiring is a skill people work hard to acquire and go through rigorous examinations and certification process to reach a level where they can officiate an international Test match. DRS just sends the wrong message to these hardworking people and can put them under a lot of pressure when making a decision. I wouldn't feel comfortable if someone is always standing over my shoulders while I work waiting for a mistake to point it out.
Do you want to get rid of replays or run outs and stumpings too?
I work in QC, and I'd far rather the feeling of being checked on that the alternative of making more mistakes.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Robson's decision when looked in DRS for the first few times looks not out...you run it a few time and then you see that it is plumb.
DRS is good and yes might eliminate errors to some extent but wont win you a test match played over 5 days. Its just too many reasons given by the teams.
That said I still dont understand why India wouldnt adopt DRS.
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There is a happy middle and with run out and stumping things are happening too fast for human brain to process and thus it makes sense to have them and It's not reviewing/reversing the decision it's rather umpire at his discretion asking for more information before making a (mistake/wrong) decision.
I work in Engineering and I always get into arguments with QC at work..so thanks for making me feel comfortable.
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Bet if DRS was there broad would have reviewed it ;)
Don't know why he's standing and protesting
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Good decision that one!
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Bet if DRS was there broad would have reviewed it ;)
Don't know why he's standing and protesting
Broad would review if two stumps were out of the ground!
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There is a happy middle and with run out and stumping things are happening too fast for human brain to process and thus it makes sense to have them and It's not reviewing/reversing the decision it's rather umpire at his discretion asking for more information before making a (mistake/wrong) decision.
I work in Engineering and I always get into arguments with QC at work..so thanks for making me feel comfortable.
Is there really more to compute in a stumping than an LBW?
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Is there really more to compute in a stumping than an LBW?
surely there's less
Stumping
was he out of his ground?
did the keeper break the stumps with the ball in his hand?
LBW
did it pitch in line?
did he hit it?
was the impact in line?
was the batsman playing a shot?
was the ball going on to hit the stumps?
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ROOOOOOOOOOT! #DoubleIt
And as I type that Plunkett gets bowled, oh poo!
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Aren't England playing well !! This attack is crap and still struggling!!
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It is disgusting the way BCCI bully everyone else in this DRS matter.
At least they can use pitch map if they have major issues with other elements of DRS, that way at least you can eliminate balls pitching leg side for LBW shouts.
Surely you can't have anything against good old pitch map?
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B. Kumar is probably the best swing bowler right now, perfect line and length
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Aren't England playing well !! This attack is crap and still struggling!!
Don't forget the flat pitch
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Don't forget the flat pitch
Lol
Can we sack Cook and the ECB yet?
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Physio treatment for Root, he's on for 250 now!
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It is disgusting the way BCCI bully everyone else in this DRS matter.
At least they can use pitch map if they have major issues with other elements of DRS, that way at least you can eliminate balls pitching leg side for LBW shouts.
Surely you can't have anything against good old pitch map?
I am sure it's to do with the BCCI board than the Indian players. BCCI doesn't want to hire out services from an UK based technology and bleed out money to a technology with flaws. Money talks , it used ECB calling the shots and now it's time for BCCI.
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I am sure it's to do with the BCCI board than the Indian players. BCCI doesn't want to hire out services from an UK based technology and bleed out money to a technology with flaws. Money talks , it used ECB calling the shots and now it's time for BCCI.
Of course, the ECB, cricket aus, as could just not play the Indians... Pretty sure they'd back down if all they get is the low teams after a few years.
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Of course, the ECB, cricket aus, as could just not play the Indians... Pretty sure they'd back down if all they get is the low teams after a few years.
They'd keep stacking up the runs though so maybe not!
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Of course, the ECB, cricket aus, as could just not play the Indians... Pretty sure they'd back down if all they get is the low teams after a few years.
Too much money on the line to even consider doing that
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Good work form Anderson and Root, if these two can cut down the lead at least to 50 runs tomorrow morning then England has a good chance of drawing this test.
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surely there's less
Stumping
was he out of his ground?
did the keeper break the stumps with the ball in his hand?
LBW
did it pitch in line?
did he hit it?
was the impact in line?
was the batsman playing a shot?
was the ball going on to hit the stumps?
It's not about how much there is to compute..it's about speed of processing and how fast things are happening and watching two different event...breaking the stumps and batter making his ground and putting them on the same timeline to detect which happened first. So it's about the capacity of human brain to focus on two different and rapid events happening almost at the same time.
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It's not about how much there is to compute..it's about speed of processing and how fast things are happening and watching two different event...breaking the stumps and batter making his ground and putting them on the same timeline to detect which happened first. So it's about the capacity of human brain to focus on two different and rapid events happening almost at the same time.
So there's two things happening in a run out, whereas there's more in an LBW in a shorter space of time.
Get the DRS in all games!
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But an LBW takes longer.
With a run out, you need to see two things simultaneously. The stumps and the line and there is always movement restricting views, etc. got to also watch what breaks stumps, did he have ball in hand
With LBWs it takes in turn so while you brain is processing where it pitched, the eyes are watching line of the ball. Then processing line when hits pad.
I think they need DRS as computer is the future.
There will be 3D pitch imaging at some point which will then be 99.999999999% accurate.
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But an LBW takes longer.
With a run out, you need to see two things simultaneously. The stumps and the line and there is always movement restricting views, etc. got to also watch what breaks stumps, did he have ball in hand
With LBWs it takes in turn so while you brain is processing where it pitched, the eyes are watching line of the ball. Then processing line when hits pad.
I think they need DRS as computer is the future.
There will be 3D pitch imaging at some point which will then be 99.999999999% accurate.
It takes longer to review yes, but more things you need to process happen in a short space of time, so there will always be human error involved.
As for the 3D pitch imaging that is something I'd love to see!
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Let's not turn it in to another DRS debate. Match is evenly poised for a draw.
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A Test cap is considered the 'Holy Grail' in cricket.
Only the best should ever get one.
So someone explain to me how Stuart Binny has 'earned' one in this Test match?
He's bowled 6 overs of military medium and batted like a drain.
Is it merely MS Dhoni giving away a cap so Binny can obtain a higher IPL salary next year?
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I wouldn't mind someone explaining India's tactics, slowest of pitches and they are bowling short. It's very ordinary cricket.
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ROOOOOOOOOOT! #DoubleIt
And as I type that Plunkett gets bowled, oh poo!
Called it yesterday! ;)
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It's ordinary cricket when you let Anderson get a Cowan!
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There are going to be so many memes on this!
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Anderson nearing his maiden century...India and it's inability to finish off a tail has always been a problem.
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This match is going for a draw...such a batting wicket
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Surely England have got to have a better spinner than the bearded wonder?
Ali is absolutely rubbish. Getting flogged around at 6+ RPO is dreadful.
No pressure what so ever from his bowling. Just like throw downs
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Hold the phone, Reg! This is getting interesting all of a sudden!
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Cook has just taken a wicket ???
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so Kerrigan added to the 2nd test squad, good choice i guess, you can't rely on Ali who isn't really a full time spinner and with the dry pitch surely Kerrigan will do the job? Agree/Disagree?
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Can't see Kerrigan being able to treaten India.
He's not a containing bowler.
Plus if Kerrigan plays, Stokes would likely miss out.
Thus meaning that if Ali and Kerrigan get flogged around, England will basically be a 3 man attack.
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Cook's bowling and wicket were quite entertaining.
Ballance's spin bowling looked quite decent in fairness. Maybe 3 spinners of Kerrigan, Root and Ballance together can make up for swanns absence?
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Difficult, isn't it?
Of the six batsmen only Cook could really be argued to deserve omission.
Three seamers plus Keggsy would not work.
So it has to be either the status quo or Kerrigan for Ali I guess.
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Watching Cook bowl was brilliant. Any idea what speed he was bowling at? If he is as quick as me, there is hope for me yet!
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His "quicker" stuff was 55-57. His first over was 42!!
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It looked soooo slow on TV.
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It looked very very slow. I think that was kinda the point though.
Hope to see it again some time, for entertainment value
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So this Kerrigan, what county team is he playing for?
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Why not replace the umpires with robots with all kind of sensors or just a lot of stump cameras with heat sensors, cameras etc..and just give decisions through the Giant screens.
Umpiring is a skill people work hard to acquire and go through rigorous examinations and certification process to reach a level where they can officiate an international Test match. DRS just sends the wrong message to these hardworking people and can put them under a lot of pressure when making a decision. I wouldn't feel comfortable if someone is always standing over my shoulders while I work waiting for a mistake to point it out.
I hope this is a personal view rather than trying to defend BCCI.
The DRS doesn't replace the umpire, it's there to support hem if they make an error (see Matt Prior dismissal). Yes it's used tactically, but it is done so by umpire's too. When 1 team has a review, and 1 doesn't I've seen umpires give decisions to the team who can't review it. Therefor the other team can, making sure we have the correct result.
India used it at first, and on LBWs they were all terrible. It was like they were fresh graduates from the S.Broad LBW review academy. It was selfish the way they used them. It was embarrassing some of decisions reviewed, without even asking the non striker!!
If India only had a problem with Hawk-Eye, why not allow DRS with all but that?
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So this Kerrigan, what county team is he playing for?
Peter Moores' Lancashire.
Sorry but Kerrigan is no more an international class spinner than I am
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Peter Moores' Lancashire.
Sorry but Kerrigan is no more an international class spinner than I am
I certainly hope he's improved since his debut. Not only was his bowling poor, but it's not nice to watch. Seeing a young-ish player being smashed around, doesn't really do anyone any favours. If he's not good enough, it makes England look bad, and damages his confidence. Some players just aren't good enough for test cricket, it's quite a step up from county level.
Hopefully he does well though, we desperately need a spinner in our attack.
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He was bowling at TB in the warm up to Balance and Robson. Didn't ask much of the batsman.
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What is wrong with Monty? He is the only test quality spinner we have.
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Do team mates like monty? He seems to get some awful glares at times, his attitude wasn't special when he played over here in grade cricket.
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What is wrong with Monty? He is the only test quality spinner we have.
Since his wife left him? He's gone off the rails big time! He's only just started to get his head down.
I heard the Essex players rounded against him when he kept turning up late to training and meetings and they told him they were working hard to make the club be the best it can they won't have him messing it up.
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I hope this is a personal view rather than trying to defend BCCI.
The DRS doesn't replace the umpire, it's there to support hem if they make an error (see Matt Prior dismissal). Yes it's used tactically, but it is done so by umpire's too. When 1 team has a review, and 1 doesn't I've seen umpires give decisions to the team who can't review it. Therefor the other team can, making sure we have the correct result.
India used it at first, and on LBWs they were all terrible. It was like they were fresh graduates from the S.Broad LBW review academy. It was selfish the way they used them. It was embarrassing some of decisions reviewed, without even asking the non striker!!
If India only had a problem with Hawk-Eye, why not allow DRS with all but that?
I would never defend those scumbags running BCCI. I hate BCCI and it's practices but that's another topic of discussion. These are personal views and I am not against being able to use technology but it should be at the discretion of the Umpires. If they feel that they missed something or believe that the information they have captured in their head is not enough to make a fair decision they can decide to go upstairs for technology support through third umpire (about time third umpires are made to earn their money). Technology should be used as a support system rather than review system.
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Favourite moment of a boring test was Root telling Sharma "to go and review it" after a caught behind was turned down.
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Favourite moment of a boring test was Root telling Sharma "to go and review it" after a caught behind was turned down.
That's awesome
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Quality by Root. Surely the number of decisions that have gone against India, they must accept the system soon
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my oft derision of Nathan Lyon as a club bowler is thrown into sharp relief when Keggsy is considered a serious bet for England.
not to decry what he has achieved - namely a lot of cheap wickets at Aigburth - but can someone name for me another very slow spinner with limited revs and an action which cannot repeat under pressure who has succeeded in test cricket?
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Indian players have absolutely no right to even show the slightest disagreement with an Umpires' decision. Top marks to Root (who seems as though he can tough it out with the best of them, he's definitely gone up in my estimations...) for telling Sharma what to do and where to go...
I've always loved Bumbles comment - "fine, you don't want to use it, that's fair enough. We will though!"
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It isn't the Indian players who have decided not to use it though, it's the BCCI which might as well not be a cricket board the way they run things. People need to understand that the 11 players on the field aren't part of and don't represent their cricket board, they represent their country.
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It isn't the Indian players who have decided not to use it though, it's the BCCI which might as well not be a cricket board the way they run things. People need to understand that the 11 players on the field aren't part of and don't represent their cricket board, they represent their country.
Aren't national sides a representative side of that country's cricket board?
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I agree with Bumble, they don't want to use it, so don't. But let us use it, makes sense
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Wasn't the stance originally taken by ST and other senior players, who despite DRS doing them a favour in the World Cup decided they stood to lose out. More to do with the spinners coming worse off/bat pads being over turned/Indian batsman having to play with the bat more than the pad (which they have to anyway now thanks to Umpires using DRS). Might be more rumour that truth but I can't believe if Dhoni felt strongly enough they wouldn't use it.
If all the other countries refused to play them without DRS then they would eventually have to use it.
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It isn't the Indian players who have decided not to use it though, it's the BCCI which might as well not be a cricket board the way they run things. People need to understand that the 11 players on the field aren't part of and don't represent their cricket board, they represent their country.
The BCCI being their employers?
Surely it's up to the Indian players/coaches? If they think it would be beneficial why would BCCI decline it from them?
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It also heaps more pressure onto the umpires. DRS is some ways is a get out for the umpires. They can make a poor decision with the best of intentions ie. plumb lbw that took an inside edge, and no harm done under DRS. In non-DRS land the players can also appeal more, knowing DRS won't overturn it. I didn't watch all of the test match but did the Indian's appeal more often?
To me one of the best reasons for DRS is the reduction in appealing and the pressure players put on the umpire. If they know it's never hitting or not close to the edge then they don't bother now, knowing full well DRS will overturn it .
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It also heaps more pressure onto the umpires. DRS is some ways is a get out for the umpires. They can make a poor decision with the best of intentions ie. plumb lbw that took an inside edge, and no harm done under DRS. In non-DRS land the players can also appeal more, knowing DRS won't overturn it. I didn't watch all of the test match but did the Indian's appeal more often?
To me one of the best reasons for DRS is the reduction in appealing and the pressure players put on the umpire. If they know it's never hitting or not close to the edge then they don't bother now, knowing full well DRS will overturn it .
The Indians appealed for everything, even when the ball clearly beat the bat.
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Not supporting anybody on this though.. the accuracy rate of Umpires without DRS Quoted by ICC was Close to 96%. Then if the DRS accuracy rate is 98%, why would you want to pay the ridiculous amount of money to get some system which is not 100% proof? again there is clause that if the umpire gives not out for an LBW, then DRS shows that everything in Line but the Ball is just kissing one of the stumps then the umpires original decision is withheld, in this case whats the Use of DRS??? again not supporting BCCI on this, but this is just me???
Then again you have only 2 reviews...and you loose both of them that's it, any howlers after that you cant do anything. My only question would be the price point coz most it of the Cricket boards can't even afford unless playing against one of the rich cricket boards.
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the quoted DRS rate is for all decisions in the game - the 2% will be ones that were got wrong on the field but either were not or could not be referred to the off field umpire.
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Personally I support DRS, international players work really hard for the game and it really hurts when a wrong decision is given by the umpire...even if the margin of error is 2%
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I agree with you on the 2% mp07...for that matter i am in for DRS even if its .01%, My only concern is the implementation, would be great if its implemented without the consult of the country boards but again price factor comes in to picture. Was reading some article from wiki showing statistics of the DRS it was greatly useful in WC2011, since its a world event ICC can afford it, but when it comes to bilateral series, its a doubt. Why cant we get the more Simon Taufel's & D Sheppard s...
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http://www.icc-cricket.com/news/2014/media-releases/81007/james-anderson-charged-with-offence-under-iccs-code-of-conduct (http://www.icc-cricket.com/news/2014/media-releases/81007/james-anderson-charged-with-offence-under-iccs-code-of-conduct)
Uh oh.
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[url]http://www.icc-cricket.com/news/2014/media-releases/81007/james-anderson-charged-with-offence-under-iccs-code-of-conduct[/url] ([url]http://www.icc-cricket.com/news/2014/media-releases/81007/james-anderson-charged-with-offence-under-iccs-code-of-conduct[/url])
Uh oh.
2 to 4 tests! Get broad's father on it ;).
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[url]http://www.icc-cricket.com/news/2014/media-releases/81007/james-anderson-charged-with-offence-under-iccs-code-of-conduct[/url] ([url]http://www.icc-cricket.com/news/2014/media-releases/81007/james-anderson-charged-with-offence-under-iccs-code-of-conduct[/url])
Uh oh.
That could be bad for us and he got man of the match in the first test
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Wait, does that say he has been charged with the offence by the Indian team manager ???.
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Wait, does that say he has been charged with the offence by the Indian team manager ???.
Yes let's hope that Anderson didn't do anything
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[url]http://www.icc-cricket.com/news/2014/media-releases/81007/james-anderson-charged-with-offence-under-iccs-code-of-conduct[/url] ([url]http://www.icc-cricket.com/news/2014/media-releases/81007/james-anderson-charged-with-offence-under-iccs-code-of-conduct[/url])
Uh oh.
Very petty. However if you will do the crime then do the time. Sport isn't an excuse to abuse people
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2 match ban. Nice rest break. Come back for final test as won't be done before start of next test.
Or after test series and banned for one dayers
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Very petty. However if you will do the crime then do the time. Sport isn't an excuse to abuse people
No room for physical contact either. If it's true no matter how little, he should be banned
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No room for physical contact either. If it's true no matter how little, he should be banned
Is their proof he did it
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TBH I'm not surprised by hometown bully Anderson's actions(if proven guilty).
Anderson likes to run his mouth, when he doesn't have the ability to back it up on anything other than doctored greentops.
Anderson's rent-a-mouth gob was firmly shut up when he was exposed by South Africa(2011) and Australia(9/10 Tests).
Should be banned for 4 Tests.
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usual reasoned approach there Gerry.
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usual reasoned approach there Gerry.
Facts are facts.
Was he exposed against South Africa? Yes.
Aside from Trent Bridge, was he exposed in the 9 other Tests?
Yep you got it, he was.
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perhaps you should read this...
www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jul/15/the-spin-james-anderson (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jul/15/the-spin-james-anderson)
oh and while I am at it, no he wasn't exposed he was ruined by the lack of runs the England team got and had no respite.
your stats don't tell the whole story.
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perhaps you should read this...
[url=http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jul/15/the-spin-james-anderson]www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jul/15/the-spin-james-anderson[/url] ([url]http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jul/15/the-spin-james-anderson[/url])
oh and while I am at it, no he wasn't exposed he was ruined by the lack of runs the England team got and had no respite.
your stats don't tell the whole story.
He's bowled the most overs due to lacking the ability to skittle the opposition.
Looks at the great bowlers Steyn, Johnson, Harris etc. They bowl less overs as they dominate the opposition.
Whereas Anderson is just a greentop bully. Lacks talent to dominate batsmen on flat pitches.
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He's bowled the most overs due to lacking the ability to skittle the opposition.
Looks at the great bowlers Steyn, Johnson, Harris etc. They bowl less overs as they dominate the opposition.
Whereas Anderson is just a greentop bully. Lacks talent to dominate batsmen on flat pitches.
Take it ur not English
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I have to ask, have you ever played or do you ever watch cricket?
do you understand the concept of scoreboard pressure?
Anderson has 300 test wickets. he has played in a team which has won series in aus, India, Sri Lanka in west Indies. the only places he hasn't won is pak/uae where he and broad were totally let down by the batsmen and SA where he has drawn a series.
he is one of the leading exponents of reverse swing.
I accept (and have never claimed) he is in the class of Steyn, who is an all time great.
but given his longevity and performances he sits comfortably ahead of Johnson and Harris who have only performed or played sporadically.
plus with Graeme Swann in the side eng haves played on a green top in years.
you constant myopic attitude is extraordinary.
broad and Anderson are feisty grumpy and idiotic at times. they are also one of the finest pairs of opening bowlers to have played for England at a time when only old Trafford has had any pace and bounce.
finally they have made strauss and cook have far better records as test captain than they captaincy skills disserve.
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I think Jimmy is great but if he is guilty of what has been alleged then he should certainly be banned. No place for that kind of behaviour anywhere, let alone in cricket.
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He's bowled the most overs due to lacking the ability to skittle the opposition.
Looks at the great bowlers Steyn, Johnson, Harris etc. They bowl less overs as they dominate the opposition.
Whereas Anderson is just a greentop bully. Lacks talent to dominate batsmen on flat pitches.
Shame on the English pitches where it is so easy to bowl that the great bowlers such as Steyn (31.65) and Johnson (37.73) don't seem to have quite as good a record as Anderson.
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I have to ask, have you ever played or do you ever watch cricket?
do you understand the concept of scoreboard pressure?
Anderson has 300 test wickets. he has played in a team which has won series in aus, India, Sri Lanka in west Indies. the only places he hasn't won is pak/uae where he and broad were totally let down by the batsmen and SA where he has drawn a series.
he is one of the leading exponents of reverse swing.
I accept (and have never claimed) he is in the class of Steyn, who is an all time great.
but given his longevity and performances he sits comfortably ahead of Johnson and Harris who have only performed or played sporadically.
plus with Graeme Swann in the side eng haves played on a green top in years.
you constant myopic attitude is extraordinary.
broad and Anderson are feisty grumpy and idiotic at times. they are also one of the finest pairs of opening bowlers to have played for England at a time when only old Trafford has had any pace and bounce.
finally they have made strauss and cook have far better records as test captain than they captaincy skills disserve.
So because Anderson has 300+ Test wickets he's something special?
Brett Lee has 300 Test wickets, he never was or will be considered 'great'.
Harbhajan Singh has 400 Test wickets, he never was or will be considered 'great'.
Anderson averages 27 at home and 36+ Away from home.
Anderson is one dimensional, average and mentally weak.
As for have I played/watched cricket? I've seen many of the all time greats play. I've played a fair amount as well.
Anderson is overrated and hyped up by the English. Fact.
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Shame on the English pitches where it is so easy to bowl that the great bowlers such as Steyn (31.65) and Johnson (37.73) don't seem to have quite as good a record as Anderson.
I'm sure Mitch will rectify that come next summer and Dale will do likewise in 2016.
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When Anderson has the right conditions he can be absolutely unplayable, but he'll never be in the same class as Steyn or Johnson (when his head's in the right place). He got pumped in the first innings and only when it was overcast and swinging around did he get wickets on the morning of day 5.
I honestly think Broad is a better bowler anyway, his lengths are great and he can get wickets almost anywhere.
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When Anderson has the right conditions he can be absolutely unplayable, but he'll never be in the same class as Steyn or Johnson (when his head's in the right place). He got pumped in the first innings and only when it was overcast and swinging around did he get wickets on the morning of day 5.
I honestly think Broad is a better bowler anyway, his lengths are great and he can get wickets almost anywhere.
Thank you someone with sense.
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I am flabbergasted that people are putting Mitchell Johnson in the same class as Dale Steyn.
Steyn is a freak who bowls fast, with decent control and movement.
Johnson has had a good few months since tweaks to his action. He is a long way from being 'a great'. He has had too many bad series to be out in this bracket yet. He needs at least two more years of consistency to be even remotely named in the same breath as Dale Steyn.
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Anderson has 300 test wickets. he has played in a team which has won series in aus, India, Sri Lanka in west Indies. the only places he hasn't won is pak/uae where he and broad were totally let down by the batsmen and SA where he has drawn a series.
I may be wrong but didn't Anderson play in the 2-1 tour in South Africa (2004/05?)
If so then the list becomes even more impressive!
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I'm sure Mitch will rectify that come next summer and Dale will do likewise in 2016.
Facts are facts...
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I have heard it many a time now that Anderson has pretty sharp tongue when he is bowling and especially bowling well.
But its amazing how he quacks like a duck when a reporter asks of him a simple question.
All this crap around Anderson is unwarranted, He is a fantastic bowler ofcourse not in the same bracket as Steyn.
And his style of bowling is most effective in seaming and swinging conditions.
Mitch is no great either. Just had a 1 and 1/2 good series of Aus and SA.
Long way to go for him.
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It's the usual thing though. I don't know many Englishmen that would class Jimmy as a great. But we always go back to statistics, and you can cut these things many ways.
Fundamentally, he's had great control of swing, both normal and reverse, where the likes of Lee had pace. Sure, he's not a great of the world game, but 300+ wickets also says he's not half bad.
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I may be wrong but didn't Anderson play in the 2-1 tour in South Africa (2004/05?)
If so then the list becomes even more impressive!
He played 1 Test, the 4th Test.
And he was crap
2-117(Econ 4.17) & 0-32(Econ 5.33)
And England won that Test...
Yep clubbie Anderson as his best.
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I have heard it many a time now that Anderson has pretty sharp tongue when he is bowling and especially bowling well.
But its amazing how he quacks like a duck when a reporter asks of him a simple question.
All this crap around Anderson is unwarranted, He is a fantastic bowler ofcourse not in the same bracket as Steyn.
And his style of bowling is most effective in seaming and swinging conditions.
Mitch is no great either. Just had a 1 and 1/2 good series of Aus and SA.
Long way to go for him.
Johnson has twice bowled Australia to series victories in South Africa. Since re-admission only Australia have won multi series in South Africa.
Yeah Mitch is pretty special. O
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Facts are facts...
Facts say Anderson is worst in Australia and South Africa respectively...
And Johnson has played 2 Tests in England vs Pakistan. He averages 32 vs England in England. And he bowled like a drain in that series....
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Johnson has twice bowled Australia to series victories in South Africa. Since re-admission only Australia have won multi series in South Africa.
Yeah Mitch is pretty special. O
so is Venkatesh Prasad as he bowled brilliantly on a away series in SA ;)
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I swear Gerry is Bob Willis. Just be miserable and talk down 90% of cricket discussions where someone raves or is a fan of someone.
I can't blame you though as you enjoy it and Everytime get a nibble, if nobody responded then I'm not sure how long you'd carry on. Heck I've probably replied in the past and this very post could be hypocritical, bets let's hope
People read this and in the future just read on from your posts.
I don't think Jimmy should get a full ban. It's a push (from camp Ind) and putting his hands out in self defence (from camp ECB).
Either way it is not a dangerous striking of an opponent. If you give this ban 4 matches (the maximum) then you have no room to give a higher ban if a player punched another.
Of course, the BCCI has a lot of control in cricket so we'll see
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Facts say Anderson is worst in Australia and South Africa respectively...
And Johnson has played 2 Tests in England vs Pakistan. He averages 32 vs England in England. And he bowled like a drain in that series....
Same pitches, even if a different (most likely with a worse batting line up at the time than England) team.
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I swear Gerry is Bob Willis. Just be miserable and talk down 90% of cricket discussions where someone raves or is a fan of someone.
I can't blame you though as you enjoy it and Everytime get a nibble, if nobody responded then I'm not sure how long you'd carry on. Heck I've probably replied in the past and this very post could be hypocritical, bets let's hope
People read this and in the future just read on from your posts.
I don't think Jimmy should get a full ban. It's a push (from camp Ind) and putting his hands out in self defence (from camp ECB).
Either way it is not a dangerous striking of an opponent. If you give this ban 4 matches (the maximum) then you have no room to give a higher ban if a player punched another.
Of course, the BCCI has a lot of control in cricket so we'll see
on another point why so much BCCI bashing I wonder sometime..We had ECB and CA calling all the shots at one time.
If you go back to the series in Australia...there were 6 players handed out a ban for over appealing or something and Sachin was accused of ball tampering...
still India continued the match and the series...
so its not about how much control BCCI has that will alter the decision..if so then even other boards have been guilty of the same in the past...
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I think it's just the BCCI is mucu less discrete in their methods of control and seem to just openly appear to have such a big influence in modern cricket, in a lot of places in a negative way.
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Well i dont know about that..it seems the right way to do things are the ECB way or CA way somehow..
I agree to all the bullshit around corruption and Srinivasan but BCCI as an evil body surely has been blown out of proportion...
there is article that came in guardian on Suarez biting incident which would have made a lot of sense here ( but just cant find it)
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It's the usual thing though. I don't know many Englishmen that would class Jimmy as a great. But we always go back to statistics, and you can cut these things many ways.
Depends how you define great really. If you look at bowlers with over 400 wickets in test cricket - because Jimmy will end up there or thereabouts - you have a mixture of the genuinely great (Warne, McGrath, Walsh, Hadlee, Akram, Ambrose) the exceptionally good and long lived (Kumble, Dev, Pollock, Harhajan) and the ones who did it by chucking. Jimmy is definitely in the latter group just as the other current player likely to reach 400 -Steyn - is in the former. Averages actually make a pretty good dividing line - Pollock is the only bowler averaging under 25 that I wouldn't instinctively label an all time great - whereas the others merely exceptional average over 26. The same works further down - most would agree that Marshall, Khan and Trueman were world greats whereas Botham, Zaheer and Craig McDermott were "merely" exceptional.
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You would not let it lie 😉
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I swear Gerry is Bob Willis.
I wish I had Bob Willis' list of Test wickets...
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Dont open the chucking can of worms here as well Manoramic :D.
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Depends how you define great really. If you look at bowlers with over 400 wickets in test cricket - because Jimmy will end up there or thereabouts - you have a mixture of the genuinely great (Warne, McGrath, Walsh, Hadlee, Akram, Ambrose) the exceptionally good and long lived (Kumble, Dev, Pollock, Harhajan) and the ones who did it by chucking. Jimmy is definitely in the latter group just as the other current player likely to reach 400 -Steyn - is in the former. Averages actually make a pretty good dividing line - Pollock is the only bowler averaging under 25 that I wouldn't instinctively label an all time great - whereas the others merely exceptional average over 26. The same works further down - most would agree that Marshall, Khan and Trueman were world greats whereas Botham, Zaheer and Craig McDermott were "merely" exceptional.
Pollock doesn't get the true respect he deserves.
Mainly because everyone remember Donald as the fire breathing fast bowler rather than Pollock the artist.
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Let's keep this topic on the correct topic!
Why are we allowing a person like Gerry (talking of loud mouths/stirrers) to work this topic to his beloved SA?
And as always slag the Brits off??
The guy tried to state stats all the time and yet when the stats make one of his hero boys look worse, its something they will obvious rectify!!
This topic is to discus the Test that starts tomorrow, not to give any time to this waste!
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from the press it appears the Indians are trying to get Anderson banned (by sacrificing jadaja).
they clearly don't rate him then...
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from the press it appears the Indians are trying to get Anderson banned (by sacrificing jadaja).
they clearly don't rate him then...
No, clearly the 300+ wickets and mastery of swing don't bother the Indian team at all.... Nor the fact that he leads the England bowling attack....
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No, clearly the 300+ wickets and mastery of swing don't bother the Indian team at all.... Nor the fact that he leads the England bowling attack....
actually its his batting they're worried about! :D
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actually its his batting they're worried about! :D
You're spot on!
One Test match - batting once - 81 runs! Therefore he is obviously one of the strongest batsmen playing Internationals in July! Stats prove this! ;)
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cunning stuff from dhoni and fletcher, if anderson gets off on a lesser charge he could still get a ban of a couple of test matches
sounds like complete handbags and hardly worth a mention,but it fired up the test match
expect it to be a bit spicy on the first moning :)
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Could be cunning stuff and if it's just handbags then it's pretty pathetic. However, if there is physical contact involved then that's pretty poor form from Jimmy!
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a push apparentley so yes some physical contact.
not much...but some.
Dhoni and Fletcher will take it a far as possible, they can afford to lose jadeja(if he is guilty too) but we cant afford to lose Jimmy.
back in the day everyone would be banned, Botham would never of played any test matches!!
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Well Jimmy I imagine will miss at least a test then and potentially Jadeja if England are looking to report something aswell. So Jimmy will be a huge loss and Ashwin will come in with Binny staying playing mainly as a batsman I imagine.
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i think India will get Ashwin in anyway for lords and maybe the next test after that
I heard the commentators saying Binny is a better bat than Ashwin but from what ive seen Ashwin is a class bat-if the wickets are dry too it will help his bowling.
Binny batted well at trent bridge(and yes should of got man of the match award) and Jadeja looked all over the place to me
maybe Jadeja is more of a one day player on flat decks.
Ashwin has always looked a correct technical player to me
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Binny batted well at trent bridge(and yes should of got man of the match award)
Disagree completely!!
James Anderson: 4 wickets, Match batting average : 81. 1 innings, played out his skin, gave great entertainment and also save England from either an outright loss, or a tension filled last day trying to draw with backs against the walll. Highlight: First FC 50.
Stuart Binny: 0 wickets, Match batting average: 39.5 2 innings, 1 a failure 2nd stopped England having any chance of winning, but didn't give India any chance of winning (which Jimmy's potentially did).
Jimmy was a fair man of the match.
For test coming up: I don't see where Kerrigan fits into the team, i'd stick with same team and request a normal Lords pitch.
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Disagree completely!!
Jimmy was a fair man of the match.
Neither Jimmy nor Binny. I think fair man of the match would have been Kumar with outstanding batting in both innings and a 5 wicket haul.
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To be fair, I thought Bhuvi Kumar deserved MOM more than Jimmy. 2 Fifties and a 5-fer on a placid pitch
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England have never been shy of complaining in the past when it suited them. Dhoni was generous with Bell run out few years ago.
It is time that conducts like this is highlighted. Teams from subcontinent have suffered a lot of "differential treatment" from the likes of Australia, SA and England so it is about time everyone is given a taste of their own medicine.
I don't believe India are doing anything wrong in raising the issue, in fairness ECB have retaliated with a similar complaint which indicates something did happen.
If Anderson is banned, it will be a shame as he is a great bowler.
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yes of course i meant kumar for MOM not Binny
wickets on that track were hard to come by,and he batted well. :)
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To be fair, I thought Bhuvi Kumar deserved MOM more than Jimmy. 2 Fifties and a 5-fer on a placid pitch
However Jimmy's 81 effectively saved the match for England, which was more important.
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I know if India had of won the Test then Kumar would have had to have been MOM.
And if England had of won the Jimmy would have been in the hot seat!
For the draw it had to be close between the two if them! I would suggest that the reason Jimmy scraped the MOM award is due to being the number 11 batsman and the last stand? Whereas Kumar was number 9 batsman?
I'm not sure on that but logically that may have swung it by a whisker?
Either way, they both played a massive part in their teams! And should both be incredibly proud of the way they played!
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Well put Pete. I think, if Jimmy hadn't had that last stand, the match would have been India's, whereas with it, the ECB got a full five days of ticket money and catering. Neither of Kumar's two knocks were quite so important to their coffers.
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Well put Pete. I think, if Jimmy hadn't had that last stand, the match would have been India's, whereas with it, the ECB got a full five days of ticket money and catering. Neither of Kumar's two knocks were quite so important to their coffers.
If Jimmy hadn't batted, all it would have meant was that England may have batted again and may have had a shot at winning. It was always going to be a draw though.
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Got to love how England were moaning about the Sri lankan's and spirit of cricket, but now they're calling reporting abuse and physical contact tactics by India.
Anderson's got away with a lot to be fair including ball tampering
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What I find odd about these accusations is that there will have been a Sky Sports camera following the players off the pitch - if Anderson and Jadaja were having a heated discussion, then this would have been picked up on and the cameraman would have zoomed in on the impending fracas!
Now something must have happened - but surely there must be some footage of it.
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I presumed that whatever happened (or otherwise) happened inside the pavillion.
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Anderson and England should just deny everything if there is no evidence.
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England have never been shy of complaining in the past when it suited them. Dhoni was generous with Bell run out few years ago.
It is time that conducts like this is highlighted. Teams from subcontinent have suffered a lot of "differential treatment" from the likes of Australia, SA and England so it is about time everyone is given a taste of their own medicine.
I don't believe India are doing anything wrong in raising the issue, in fairness ECB have retaliated with a similar complaint which indicates something did happen.
If Anderson is banned, it will be a shame as he is a great bowler.
Absolutely agree with you.
If Jimmy is found guilty he should be banned. There is nothing cunning about it.
May be there is a reason the Aussies reserved special treatment for Jimmy.
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A ban may do Jimmy some good. A bit of enforced rest can't hurt, can it?
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People may even realise how good he is if he isn't there...
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Was anybody watching the TV footage? All the press I've read suggests that it was something that took place on the pitch that spilled over into the pavilion.
If so, I would have expected that there would have been some commentary from the commentators relating to this.
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the papers ive read say there was sledging on the pitch, which most of us saw, and then inside somewhere on the way to the dressing rooms it continued and jadeja and jimmy fronted up and alledgedly jimmy pushed him away-which was witnessed by indian players and officials.Seems a storm in a tea cup...obviously you cannot be throwing punches but there is no suggestion any were thrown.
I'm sure on these boards there are those that support their own teams, Anderson banned or a minor incident blown out of all proportion if you support England(like myself)
I think the fact that the Indian team completley by passed the match officials and went to the ICC perhaps shows how they think they can run cricket,ignoring the procedure for any 'incidents'
If India think they have been wronged fair enough-the complaint should of been made to the match officials-they are in charge of the match. :)
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the papers ive read say there was sledging on the pitch, which most of us saw, and then inside somewhere on the way to the dressing rooms it continued and jadeja and jimmy fronted up and alledgedly jimmy pushed him away-which was witnessed by indian players and officials.Seems a storm in a tea cup...obviously you cannot be throwing punches but there is no suggestion any were thrown.
I'm sure on these boards there are those that support their own teams, Anderson banned or a minor incident blown out of all proportion if you support England(like myself)
I think the fact that the Indian team completley by passed the match officials and went to the ICC perhaps shows how they think they can run cricket,ignoring the procedure for any 'incidents'
If India think they have been wronged fair enough-the complaint should of been made to the match officials-they are in charge of the match. :)
The India team manager Sunil Dev, who lodged the complaint, told ESPN Cricinfo on Tuesday: “Mahi [Dhoni] and everyone complained that he physically touched him [Jadeja] and pushed him,” Dev said. “It was all over the dressing room. It is serious matter only because you can’t push anybody. So I put in a complaint with the match referee.”
The level three offence, which is what Anderson has been charged with, is the most serious offence under the ICC code of conduct and he could face a four-Test ban.
----First notified to match referee and then you press charges with the ICC.
Asked if India would rather have Anderson out of the England team than in it, Cook said: “Yeah, I think so, I think that’s pretty much where it’s come from.”
---Cook just cant do anything right on the filed and off the field.
Indians are scared of Anderson. He will just run through a side. Yeah right!!!
India is worried about its own bowling more than the opposition batting or bowling.
They have a fantastic batting side.
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India did report it to a match referee, but the level 3 offence is deemed above a match referee so it had to go higher. There were no behind back tactics from the Indian dressing room.
Several Indian players have admitted off record that it wasn't serious, but obviously now it's taking up the press and putting pressure on England. Clever from India, in same way that Lehman made Broad out to be the enemy in Australia (Broad admitting this affected him). This will be all around the England training and dressing rooms affecting atmosphere, maybe lowering Jimmys confidence which would of been high after the 1st test.
What is annoying though is that the ICC sent a lawyer to try resolve the matter and it sounds like India refused to come to an agreement with him (obviously wanting the punishment).
A push is wrong, but if the BCCI want a 4 test ban they should look within themselves where a player throws a bat and is only fined money....
If it was the test had been a dead rubber, India would've let Jimmy apologise there would've been a shake of hands and all forgotten about. India want to win this series, to overcome the hurt of England winning abroad on top of usual wanting to win.
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Depends how you define great really. If you look at bowlers with over 400 wickets in test cricket - because Jimmy will end up there or thereabouts - you have a mixture of the genuinely great (Warne, McGrath, Walsh, Hadlee, Akram, Ambrose) the exceptionally good and long lived (Kumble, Dev, Pollock, Harhajan) and the ones who did it by chucking. Jimmy is definitely in the latter group just as the other current player likely to reach 400 -Steyn - is in the former. Averages actually make a pretty good dividing line - Pollock is the only bowler averaging under 25 that I wouldn't instinctively label an all time great - whereas the others merely exceptional average over 26. The same works further down - most would agree that Marshall, Khan and Trueman were world greats whereas Botham, Zaheer and Craig McDermott were "merely" exceptional.
So you're labelling Jimmy a chucker then? Lol...
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Pretty poor from the Indians, they are trying to play tough guys but cry when it goes to more than talk, Sreesanth was a prime example of this behaviour. "All show, no go" is a saying that comes to mind.
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Pretty poor from the Indians, they are trying to be tough guys but cry when it goes to more than talk, Sreesanth was a prime example of this behaviour. "All show, no go" is a saying that comes to mind.
Sreesanth is a tool, always will be.
Indians are following procedure and not making anything up. Better raise it first than wait for opposition. The decisions will be made by ICC not ECB or BCCI.
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Green top prepared. No excuses if England doesn't win...
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/p180x540/10392281_10152551070998361_3210047378173406742_n.jpg)
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Green top prepared. No excuses if England doesn't win...
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/p180x540/10392281_10152551070998361_3210047378173406742_n.jpg)
Let's hope that bowling is the right decision. If it doesn't do anything it's going to be a hot and humid couple of days and we really don't want to be bowling throughout them both...
I'm feeling Nasser at Brisbane....
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Come 6.30PM I'm expecting the ridiculous headlines 'Clubman Jimmy the King of Swing'...
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Ooof. That green top is looking very unpleasant for the batsmen!!!
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where is the pitch? :o you score runs on this one..it will count double :(
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Let's hope that bowling is the right decision. If it doesn't do anything it's going to be a hot and humid couple of days and we really don't want to be bowling throughout them both...
I'm feeling Nasser at Brisbane....
Sounds like an excuse already Tim. ;)
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Sounds like an excuse already Tim. ;)
KP was on Twitter this morning saying don't be fooled by the green and bat...
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Prior drops another tough-ish one! It seems that for every chance he drops, he gets one from the selectors...
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Is there no one better than Prior? His keeping is poor, no footwork.
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Twice this morning an Indian has edged the ball and it's gone through the gap in the slip cordon.
Why's Cook got mid on? It's going around corners.
India should be 10/2 but due to Cook's negative captaincy it's 20/1
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Eng not bowling straight enough or full enough.
Not sure Cook's captaincy has much to do with that...
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Have to agree with Gerry on this. Hardly any runs since the 2nd over. Why on earth would you have a gap in the cordon? It's pure madness in conditions like this.
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It is poor captaincy I feel.Why do you need a long on and long off? Let the batsman drive.
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It is poor captaincy I feel.Why do you need a long on and long off? Let the batsman drive.
Errr, yes, but if you bowl too short, then the batsman won't and that has been the issue this morning.
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Errr, yes, but if you bowl too short, then the batsman won't and that has been the issue this morning.
Yep guilty of that too..
I like the way Pujara plays in these conditions ...so late and such a close and bottom grip on the bat...hope he gets a big one...
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If he changed bowlers they would soon change lengths, bowl for the team or hook them.
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Yep guilty of that too..
I like the way Pujara plays in these conditions ...so late and such a close and bottom grip on the bat...hope he gets a big one...
If they had bowled properly at him I'm not sure that would have helped. He's been able to stay back and play it late due to the length. If it was pitched up and coming on with him on the front foot I think it would be slightly different.
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Warne is on...this will be interesting :D
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This is getting pretty boring to watch now. Ball is hooping round corners but as has previously been said it's too short!
Both Plunkett and Broad have been off the pitch. Drinks have come on too. Why on earth in any of those 3 opportunities has a message not been given to bowl fuller!
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I think this is a pretty good Test match surface.
60/40 in the bowlers favour IMO. Which is about right. Too many matches in the modern era are 75/25 in the batsmen favour.
If you show good technique and temperament you'll score runs to this pitch.
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I agree! PITCH IT UP!!! ???
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Pitch is crying out for Chris Woakes.
If he doesn't get a game on this then he never will. He's far too good a bowler to be running drinks.
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Why is it that everyone *except* the england bowlers can see they are pitching generally too short and wide?
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This lad Vijay has pretty poor footwork but has very nice hands that bail him out when he gets into trouble.
Stokes, in a few years time, could end up being England's next opening bowler
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England have pissed the new ball and conditions up the wall - 58-2 and India must be laughing. England could be all out for that in these conditions.
On a raging greentop you must -
1. make him play
2. not bowl half way down the deck
Seems to have by-passed the brains trust. If ball after ball get's left, you either change the line or your position on the crease until the guy doesn't know where his off stump is. Why would you bowl half way down the deck when it's doing plenty on a length?
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India's engine room at the crease now.
Get one or both of Pujara and Kohli soon after lunch and India could be 120-150 all out.
That said England are feeding Kohli with soon freebies at present...
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So far hardly any of the balls look like hitting the stumps
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Around the wicket bowling short on a green top.
They really have lost the plot
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listening to TMS, did Prior drop Puajra last ball of the session?!
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Matt prior has dropped another dolly. Off the bowling of Ali. The batsman was Kohli.
Time for retirement Matthew..
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Another drop, easy catch too.
How long can prior continue to be selected
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So far hardly any of the balls look like hitting the stumps
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So... England's seamers... What have you done? And then you take the dropped catches. It is entirely a display of a team that is suffering with low confidence.
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India close to being out of the Test match prior to Tea on D1.
Anything under 250(working total IMO) and their will be no pressure on the English batsmen.
300 would be an excellent total on this surface for India, but barring a miracle India aren't getting anyway near that figure.
Pujara is a magnificent batsman, but he's got in 3 times and not posted a century.
Kohli might be the pin up boy of Indian cricket, but IMO he's not a Test match #4. He's more of a #5.
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sharp intake of breath
I agree with Gerry.
I also think we should have got India 8 down by now... I would have loved to see Martin Bicknell bowling on this track
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TBH Buzz,
Had England pitched the ball up, IMO, India would've been cleaned up for under 100.
Guys like Kumar and Binny have never played on a pitch like this before, so the runs they scored in Nottingham are almost irrelevant
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Well said Gerry, but I am sure England will struggle to bat on this wicket as well.
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Agree with you Gerry, and to be fair, all of the guys who I know that are at Lord's today have been berating the lack of properly pitched bowling. We wasted a session.
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I think, and I'm shocked to say it, Stuart Binny could be a real handful on this pitch.
Little wobblers at 70-75mph could be a nightmare for the English batsmen.
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This lad Rahane looks a fine player.
Interesting stat all of his 50+ scores(96* vs SA 118 vs NZ 54* vs ENG) have all been outside India.
He doesn't get the big hype as some of the others in his side but he's a classy player.
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This lad Rahane looks a fine player.
Interesting stat all of his 50+ scores(96* vs SA 118 vs NZ 54* vs ENG) have all been outside India.
He doesn't get the big hype as some of the others in his side but he's a classy player.
Rahane is a great player, just look at his records in last few domestic seasons. He is very similar to Dravid and he along with Pujara should be big part of India's future in Test cricket.
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Sorry made an error Rahane has 4 50+ scores all away from home.
He made 51* and 96 in Durban
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A quite brilliant century from Ajinkya Rahane has turned this match on it's head.
Second 50 was at a run a ball.
275/8. India in the game.
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That was some innings by rahane!
Surprised India didn't declare and have 1 over at cook
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And he is gone for 103 with a one handed catch by Anderson.
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Well done Rahane! On the honours board and good knock!! :)
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Field placings are bonkers to the number 10...
This was by far India's day. They battled hard and have come out on top. On the other hand, England has had a miserable day in favourable conditions.
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India will be happy that they'll keep Cook on his toes tomorrow morning.
Whether they bat 1 ball or 4 overs.
Cook would've loved to have rocked up tomorrow and only be thinking of batting.
Now he's in a horror run of form and will only get 10mins up get prepared to bat once India are dismissed.
Could scramble his brain...
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I turned off the TV at 140-7, but what a knock by Rahane. Tough runs always mean the most and on a wicket like that staring down the barrel of being rolled over I think he'll be proud of that. With the big names of Kohli,Dhawan and Dhoni throwing it away (although Kohli got an absolutely jaffa), he's put India in a great position given the state of the pitch.
Jadeja should be dropped on the basis of his dismissal alone. He's a good player of spin and that shot was horrific given the circumstances and the state of the game.
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Great knock by rahene,that was superb
This is going to be a far more interesting match than trent bridge
Our batsman will not find it easy on that greenery
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Field placings are bonkers to the number 10...
This was by far India's day. They battled hard and have come out on top. On the other hand, England has had a miserable day in favourable conditions.
Think tomorrow will decided if it India day or not i would say there a whole lot of doom monger here but if England fight back tomorrow will be interesting
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Doesn't help England's bowlers, who are obviously low on confidence, that they have to create 14-15 chances per innings with the amount of drops we've seen over the past year.
Matt Prior being the main culprit, surely he must be replaced by the end of the series.
Not that it can be used as an excuse for the obviously incorrect length being bowled by the bowlers, but I do sympathise.
Bhuvi will be licking his lips tonight at the prospects of bowling tomorrow.
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Doesn't help England's bowlers, who are obviously low on confidence, that they have to create 14-15 chances per innings with the amount of drops we've seen over the past year.
Matt Prior being the main culprit, surely he must be replaced by the end of the series.
Not that it can be used as an excuse for the obviously incorrect length being bowled by the bowlers, but I do sympathise.
Bhuvi will be licking his lips tonight at the prospects of bowling tomorrow.
Maybe Cook is looking at his bat saying tomorrow is the time for a big score :D
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Maybe Cook is looking at his bat saying tomorrow is the time for a big score :D
He could well be, and I hope he does get one, but I know which my money would be on...
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hoping shami and ishant get the world record for 10th wicket stand but thats wishful thinking :)
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Na , I definitely want England to bat as soon as possible seeing the pitch changing so that India can use the same moisture and grass on it as today.
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I have been a big supporter of Prior. He has always been a decent gloveman and his batting has made up for the few errors he made before, but it seems the errors are coming per session these days.
Wonder if he is playing through some sort of pain that is restricting his movement slightly.
I think the same issue with keeping is what they have with spin. Not knowing which way they want to take it and no-one truly standing out as keeper and batsman.
On the match, disappointed they didn't get them bowled out in 2-2.5 sessions. Just hope the batsmen get a 50+ lead after their innings
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I have been a big supporter of Prior. He has always been a decent gloveman and his batting has made up for the few errors he made before, but it seems the errors are coming per session these days.
Wonder if he is playing through some sort of pain that is restricting his movement slightly.
If this is the case, there is absolutely no way he should be playing. Any one of Foster, Read, Butler could have played.
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Wonder if he is playing through some sort of pain that is restricting his movement slightly.
Think the radio was saying it seemed like prior was playing with an injury (swann & aggers I think). Basically said he wouldn't want to give up the gloves as he may not get back in if someone else (buttler / bairstow etc) play really well.
They talked about Ian Healey playing through the pain cause he could see Adam gilcrist coming through.
Question is, should it be up to him or the management?
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Exactly - deffo not up to him. Not fully fit, shouldn't be playing. Shocking decision if that's been allowed.
It's about team England - not individuals trying to extend out their careers!
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Bring Read in for the rest of series. Averages over 40 in FC this season. Glove work is higher standard than Priors.
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Being an Aussie, I hadn't heard much about Read. But his glove/foot work in the MCC vs ROW game was a class above anything I've ever seen from Prior. And if he's averaging 40+ in FC this season, it's a no brainer.
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I think he's injured. He's had that Achilles problem for a while now and I think this will be hampering him. To make it simple, he just doesn't look comfortable keeping.
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If he is carrying an injury, his inclusion is mind bogglingly bad. He is not a great keeper to start with and certainly nowhere near good enough to be keeping with an injury.
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Anybody else seen this? http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2014/content/video_audio/761227.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2014/content/video_audio/761227.html)
As a keeper, and having watched Prior in this test and the last, I really don't know what Chappell is on about. Prior's left foot is always on or just outside off when standing back, certainly his right foot is nowhere near off as Chappell is suggesting? Or am I seeing things?
Also, as a keeper, I find it better to stand with my left leg maybe half a meter outside off so I'm taking the ball on my inside, then again maybe thats just because we don't get as much wobble here in NZ...
Thoughts?
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If you watch this video 3 mins in, Priors left foot looks to be more on middle stump, not outside off anyway
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMhUpQ-rq58 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMhUpQ-rq58)
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He just seems to stand flat footed to me and dive at catches.
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There was discussion on TMS that at treat Bridge he had spent most of it on his heels due to a calf injury. They thought he started off on his balls, but I didn't hear later in the day as to whether he had dropped back.
Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk
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Prior has the look of a man that knows he's on borrowed time. If the injuries aren't healing and causing subsequent injuries and leading to a lack of confidence, I wouldn't be surprised if he called time on his career soonish - or if it was done for him. Possibly at the end of the series, although it wouldn't surprise me if it were earlier.
England have retained Prior for his experience as much as his ability, so whether he stays in longer than in previous years with a more experienced side may be a talking point with selectors. I do think that if he's replaced at any point from now, he won't come back.
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Prior is very close to the end of the road - he's been fluffing his lines with regularity all season both with bat and gloves and, now that the debutants have a few caps under their belts, management will want to have a very careful look at his place, probably as soon as the next test.
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It depends on other factors, but I would be surprised if he was still in place by the end of the series.
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Yet another failure for cook.
Same old dismissal. Getting pretty boring now
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Surely the bloke has to be due for runs soon!!! And now Robson gone too..
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Cook's problems perfectly encapsulated by a cricinfo correspondant:
Moppa: "Bowlers have worked out they can bowl fuller to Cook, which makes it harder for him to leave on length. This means he must make more hard decisions about when to play and when to leave, and so its harder to concentrate, error-free, through long innings. Given he scores slowly, the law of averages means that he won't make big scores. "
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Oh look! Pitching it up works!
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So: the pressure is on to bed in, grit it out and settle for a patient score in conditions that are going to get better to bat in.
Ian Bell to the crease - is he going to get the difficult runs this time? Is he going to post a hard-fought big one, or get out frustratingly for a pretty 25 - 40?
Plenty of Bell fans on here - discuss. :)
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Robsons dismissals since becoming a Test opener.... all full length on the drive, not a fan.
Shame for Cook, think he has to step away from captaincy before he ruins his whole career, he needs to have something left to salvage!
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This England team is plumbing the depths of the mid-nineties. After the noughties, the world number ones and the beating India in India, what we are now seeing is that the only real difference between England now and England 20 years ago is that the management is not chopping and changing the side quite so frequently. Anyone care to disagree?
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I don't think we are there yet.
We just seem to have lost out killer instinct.
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Gotta agree with ou Tim. They are almost keep picking the same players now because they're scared to pick the alternative. Prior needs replacing until he gets 100% fully fit and we need a proper spinner. However, if they selectors want youth, there's not exactly many people knocking the door down.
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Bugger youth! (well not in practice, obviously!) - lets get team England back to winning ways.
Balance, Robson, Root, Ali, Jordan are enough youth for the moment, and Cook, Plunkett and Broad are hardly ancient - let's pick the best XI
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I think batting wise there's a bit of Mr Micawber about it - the belief that something will turn up. Probably the same with the bowling really. Shows how much Swann is missed.
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Another nothing dismissal when half set for Bell, back to his old ways after being godlike last summer.
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Bugger youth! (well not in practice, obviously!) - lets get team England back to winning ways.
Balance, Robson, Root, Ali, Jordan are enough youth for the moment, and Cook, Plunkett and Broad are hardly ancient - let's pick the best XI
Pick 11 kids. They are those ones who are generally performing the better any way.
Cook, Bell, Prior are getting shown up by the others generally.
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Another nothing dismissal when half set for Bell, back to his old ways after being godlike last summer.
Not so sure that was a "nothing" dismissal. Bloody difficult ball to play.
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Ian Bell in his last 32 Test matches and 50 innings
Bell has only scored 4 hundreds.
3 of which came in 7 innings vs Australia in 2013 Ashes.
If Cook's getting close to the chop, why's Bell getting a free ride?
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Bell looks really low in confidence, his body language tells it all...very different Bell from last time when India came to England.
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The reality is there is a real lack of alternative batsmen to pick. No one is really hammering the door down.
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I think it might be time yo rejig the batting lineup.
Cook is in a poor run of form but he still averages 45. Maybe he should move down to 5.
Bell stays at 4.
Get Ali to open and give the innings impetus early on.
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Well said MJB3...no one is really knocking on the door to take on those spot.
On other note, Dhoni is really struggling with keeping, taking it too easy perhaps? I don't think he enjoys playing test matches haha
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Ian Bell in his last 32 Test matches and 50 innings
Bell has only scored 4 hundreds.
3 of which came in 7 innings vs Australia in 2013 Ashes.
If Cook's getting close to the chop, why's Bell getting a free ride?
Bell always gets a free ride...
Interesting that all the people we are talking about dropping are the experienced players.
It shows how much the team relied on KP.
Having said that, now he has gone, I am not sure you can bring him back - plus he isn't exactly scoring huge runs for Surrey at the moment either...
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Bell always gets a free ride...
Interesting that all the people we are talking about dropping are the experienced players.
It shows how much the team relied on KP.
Having said that, now he has gone, I am not sure you can bring him back - plus he isn't exactly scoring huge runs for Surrey at the moment either...
The Durban native no longer plays first class cricket so a return seems unlikely...
And they only way he could return is if Cook/Moores/Downton are all sacked.
Which seems unlikely.
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The Durban native no longer plays first class cricket so a return seems unlikely...
And they only way he could return is if Cook/Moores/Downton are all sacked.
Which seems unlikely.
Wouldn't lose much if they all got the boot at the moment.
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Hales has been scoring a load of first class runs...
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Love the talk about dropping players. Welcome to NZ cricket for the last two decades.
I think you see whats happening to Bell happens to a few players. He's the last of a group of players that did so well a few years ago. Maybe his good friends are gone and its just a bit more difficult for him to get himself up. I personally just see a form slump from him but he's a brilliant player and should bounce back.
Cook just has too much pressure on him and is struggling all around, He needs to lose the captaincy IMO. Look what happened to Ross Taylor when he was replaced.
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the problem for us England fans is it would not be the end of the world for Cook not to be England captain because we need his runs far more-we dont care if he's captain or not...
It's who would replace him in the current team.
there's really very few alternatives
Cook is not a good tactical captain, he can lead from the front(great when things are going well) but he's in a terrible run of form that just will not go away
Personally I think he will be given this series and he either gets some runs or will be dropped from the team.
In my book class is permanent so he will turn it around...but God only knows when
i dont beleive he should drop down the order as has been suggested by a few on here,he's an opener, so he needs to battle it out.
England's problems are not a result of KP not playing.The most valuable player to us(batsman) in the last few years has been Trott-no question.
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There's next to no one really pushing for a place this season with the bat at the current time, which is surprising given the amount we've had in the last couple of seasons and competition for the positions. Here are the 8 leading (English qualified) CC run scorers this season :
J Vince - 1167 @ 64.83
D Mitchell - 1040 @ 74.28
S Patel - 974 @ 44.27
A Lyth - 887 @ 59.13
R Wessels - 887 @ 49.27
M Trescothick - 875 @ 48.61
W Smith - 825 @ 45.83
D Malan - 799 @ 49.93
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Typical ali dismissal, looks good then gives it away. lazy dismissal.
Can't believe they sent a night watchman in! Prior probably scared of the new ball
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This lad Kumar is having some series.
Leading wicket taker, his first Tests in England to boot, and scored plenty of runs.
Overall India 60/40 ahead due to having the worst conditions to bat in and harder conditions to bowl in.
Prior, Stokes and Broad have to try get a lead of 100 runs otherwise winning the toss will be wasted.
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Simon Hughes made a good point yesterday that the conditions Kumar has had so far are very similar to where he grew up playing in the north of India. Agree he looks the real deal though.
Been thinking about the Cook captaincy and have a left-field idea that, on the face of it, is pure fantasy and the England management would never go for it. That said, here goes!
Yesterday on Sky Ravi Shastri compared Cook to Tendulkar at the turn of the century. As India Captain, he had a far worse record than Cook has and his form was suffering. He pulled the plug on his captaincy as it was felt his runs and enjoyment of the game far outweighed his captaincy, which was forced and un-natural, very much like Cook.
The main difference in that was that India had a number of options as replacements. In the current set up, England have none. Bell is a follower, not a leader. Nothing wrong with that, as long as we're clear on his place within the side. He likes playing second fiddle and has got 20 test hundreds doing so. Cook back in the ranks give him that position back since KP's departure. Root isn't ready and possibly won't be for another couple of years. Same with Ballance. You can't give it Anderson as he will be rested at some point and I have it on very good authority that it was offered to Broad before the India series and he turned it down. Prior is on borrowed time.
We need Cook's runs more than his captaincy, so you have to look outside the current squad (and Lions players for that matter). You hear that we can't pick captains for their captaincy alone, like Brearley, they have to do a job. Step forward Chris Read.
Read is currently captaining the Div 1 leaders, is arguably the best keeper in the country, certainly top three. He has previous Test experience and is averaging 45 with the bat this season. Either way, he knows his game inside out.
I would bring him in with the remit that his role is to captain and keep wicket, runs are not an issue. We bat down to 7 with Stokes, Read at 8 or 9. He'd be an improvement behind the stumps significantly and I'd pull in Buttler whenever he's free during Test match build up to work with him in drills. The England captain has a lot of press and media duties (the other issue is that Cook's image fits the role well with corporates and that will cloud issues on him stepping down), so I would share that around senior players, taking pressure off one person. Cook, Bell, Anderson, Broad and Read can effectively share that around. The England captaincy is unique compared to other Test nations for the sheer volume of games year round - its a constant toil and clearly grinds players down. Vaughan, Strauss and now Cook's form all suffered, which lends more weight to taking it off a batsman.
It won't happen. But I would suggest we wouldn't be doing any worse than we are now...
As a slight aside, I know we've done DRS to death. I'd like to present some stats to the BCCCI at the end of the series comparing howlers overturned during previous series and this one. We've had 5 or 6 shockers after two tests alone that would have been overturned. Strip all the pony trap away and that's DRS's role. The BCCI are doing my swede in...
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it's not the worst idea
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I like that idea. As you say, it won't happen....but it makes a lot of sense!
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Makes sense, but it's far too left field.
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Another like for that idea,having watched read at lords in the rest of the world game the guy is different class.
We need cooks runs far more than his captaincy-the bloke will turn it around he has 25 test tons for heavens sake.
He just can't do both jobs together,and our press love a batsman out of form to hammer...
Bringing in a keeper from county cricket would take off some pressure until a long term replacement makes a case.
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I agree that Read needs a call up to the team based on the ROW match. He defied the saying of 'when no one notices the keeper, he is having a good day'. The commentators were talking about Read, and how good his keeping was. Everyte that stumping was replayed, credit was given to Read instead of the bowler.
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But, if we're being honest, he isn't a great skipper. And James Foster is a better keeper.
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Ben Stokes really isn't Test quality with the bat.
Aside from that one off innings at Perth, he's been a walking wicket.
Bhuvneshwar Kumar gets his second consecutive 5 wicket bag. Well bowled lad.
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6fer Kumar.
Moronic batting by Broad
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Not sure stokes has proved to be a worthy edition over Jordan in these two tests.
I'd bring Jordan back in the third.
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http://instagram.com/p/qoiXNtyy5T/ (http://instagram.com/p/qoiXNtyy5T/)
Hmmm does it looks like a honest mistake? I believe not, considering how he is dragging his right feet without lifting it.
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They tried to laugh it off but it looked pretty bad, if it happened in India there would be an uproar.
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Wow! Looks pretty poor!!
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Not sure stokes has proved to be a worthy edition over Jordan in these two tests.
I'd bring Jordan back in the third.
Whether for reasons of fitness/match practice or just having over performed in the Ahses, Stokes is being found out a bit at the moment. Like Flintoff when he first came into international cricket, he might not be quite good enough in either discipline yet.
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Since the Sydney ODI
These are Ben Stokes' scores across all formats when batting for England:
0, 5, 5, 4, 0, 4, 0, 0, 0
He's averaging 2
Don't think he's suited to bat at 8 TBH. Confidence is down.
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Since the Sydney ODI
These are Ben Stokes' scores across all formats when batting for England:
0, 5, 5, 4, 0, 4, 0, 0, 0
He's averaging 2
Don't think he's suited to bat at 8 TBH. Confidence is down.
Ouch. That's the end of a international career for some, but as he is an allrounder. Does he still make the side as a bowler?
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Not convinced the statisic is as relevant as it sounds - the key thing is that he has batted twice since his return and made two ducks. Since his selection must have had something to do with his batting, the selectors should be asking whether he can really be justified as the fourth seamer if he is going to score so few runs.
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I would be careful of reading too much into it. The test innings are relevant but it's a small sample. The ODI's he was batting 3/8/god knows where.
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I would be careful of reading too much into it. The test innings are relevant but it's a small sample. The ODI's he was batting 3/8/god knows where.
Remove the slap and tickle stuff as that's meaningless, the ODI is pretty meaningless too. Only take the test stuff into account, and although he could do wih some runs it's not into dropping territory yet.. Cook however".............................
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Anderson 102 overs thus far in this series.
Broad 93 overs thus far
Can't see both playing 5 Tests, they'll be shot by the 4th Test
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Lack of a half decent spinner is really hurting England here.
Monty stop being a tool and go get back into this side.
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Lack of a half decent spinner is really hurting England here.
Monty stop being a tool and go get back into this side.
It's alright, Kerrigan will be playing the next test!
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It's alright, Kerrigan will be playing the next test!
But do you really believe Kerrigan will threaten India?
Otherwise he might handicap Anderson and Broad yet more.
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But do you really believe Kerrigan will threaten India?
If his display in the ashes was anything to go by then his bowling will be a genuine threat to the Indian fans in the crowd (and the England fans come to think of it).
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England haven't chased over 200 since 2008.... Can they chase this target?
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Cook's already got the field back to the tail with the new ball. Not learnt from the last 3 innings
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India have enough, they only need to win one more session to win the game England have a 1 in 20 chance in my view.
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India have enough, they only need to win one more session to win the game England have a 1 in 20 chance in my view.
India only has two dependable bowlers Buzz.
Kumar and Jadeja.
Shami and Ishant are always likely to go around the park.
India would've been more comfortable if they had R Ashwin as their 5th bowling option not Binny.
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Sky team thinks it's 50-50 now , I feel It's India's game to loose right now, another 50 runs should seal the deal.
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Surprise surprise Anderson getting smashed around and they want the ball changed
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Pretty brilliant counter attacking innings from Jadeja.
When you see some of his shots, you can see why Dhoni like him in the team.
Kumar is far too good to bat at 9
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Surprise surprise Anderson getting smashed around and they want the ball changed
That was a very ordinary over by Anderson.... Short stuff got what it deserved really
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Dhoni's lost the plot standing back to a spinner ???
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It all gone very vill-age
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It's as if he's trying to be controversial. Can't see any reason for it whatsoever.
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England crumbling here 70-1 became 72-4
Ian Bell's poor form continues, yet it will be Alastair Cook in the firing line.
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when doing a chase like this, you need to attack up front, a bit like Sehwag did when Kp was captain in India.
blocking doesn't put the oppo under pressure.
I wanted bell to be captain, but now I don't think he deserves it he has let cook down as a senior player for a while.
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England close 105/4 and just about still 40/60 chance of winning.
Moeen Ali living a charmed life towards the end of play. Survived two close LBW chances and survived a drop catch by Dhoni as well.
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As I said earlier, England looking a lot like the mid-nineties side. Not sure what to do to win, or how to play. Bring back Duncan Fletcher I say...
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Looking at the score (don't have Sky sports) it looks as if the fat lady hasn't sung yet. But she is certainly warming her voice up and doing her scales! Can't she this lasting until much after lunch to be honest!
If England don't have the confidence to beat Sri Lanka, then I can't see them beating India!
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So - the big questions should be:
Who Can Captain England Moving Forward
Who Can Bowl Spin for England
Who Can Open For England
How do we get Jordan Back in? (I think he'll score more runs than Stokes ATM)
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So - the big questions should be:
1Who Can Captain England Moving Forward
2Who Can Bowl Spin for England
3Who Can Open For England
4How do we get Jordan Back in? (I think he'll score more runs than Stokes ATM)
1In the current squadJoe Root - he's being groomed for the England captaincy, but isn't ready yet.
Short term fix Chris Read, great keeper (resolving a different issue), decent batsman and successful county captain.
2Monty Panesar - best we've got if he sorts his head out. Simon Kerrigan - seems to be the next in line for a go in the side, hopefully goes better than his debut.
3Potential openers
Root - was in as an opener last summer but didn't have the temperament and has done better in the middle order.
Carberry - didn't do disastrously in Aus and was badly treated after, worth another go!
Cook - if he isn't captain any longer and regains form hopefully a long term option, needs a new skipper for this to happen.
Robson - has a test ton but keeps getting himself out, give him to the end of the series before doing anything stupid.
Compton - why not, didn't have a disasterous start to his test career and was axed after one poor series. Been in the runs for Somerset and bats long, so why not?
4Dare I say it, drop captain Cook and get Jordan in, wouldn't weaken the batting that much on current form, and reduces massive workload of Jimmy & Broad. Does accelerate the new captain and opener problem.
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So - the big questions should be:
Who Can Captain England Moving Forward
Who Can Bowl Spin for England
Who Can Open For England
How do we get Jordan Back in? (I think he'll score more runs than Stokes ATM)
Jo Root, doesn't matter if its just for the remaining 3 tests of this series to give him a chance to learn at the deep end. Just get the monkey off cooks back.
Best spinner at the moment in the country is Adam Riley (Kent ccc) you can't argue with facts and now over half way through he is the main man this year. Is he the best spinner in the country certainly not but at the moment he is in form and confident.
Look Cook is a class player, he is England's best bat (stats over this length of career don't lie) and will no doubt go on to be a great of the game in terms of runs scored. England need to stick with Cook & Robson for a while yet as nothing elsa has any longevity in it and I'm sick of seeing it changed series by series.
Jordan for stokes if your that inclined straight swap although personally I think Stokes offers that bit more all in all.
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Who Can Captain England Moving Forward
This is the hardest one to answer. I think we've done to death the fact that of the current side the only contenders are either due to be sacked, due to be dropped, not keen on the job or too young. I do think Root is too young - not so much in terms of calender years as in terms of his development as a fully rounded cricketer - the fact is, England have rather messed him around, and he needs some time settled in one role in the side to get himself properly underway.
So, realistically, we need someone to captain England through to the end of the Ashes series next year. And the choices are pretty thin. Even if they were brave enough to go outside of the group, thre are not that many really good skippers in county cricket now, with a lot of clubs passing the role around like a chicken pox party; I've said before that the best tactical skipper in the county game has to Andrew Gale at Yorkshire and I stand by that. However, he is some way short of test class with the bat - I make him approximately the 26th best choice - and giving him the job would require either one of the existing middle order to step up to open, or to be dropped for an opener, which would be a shame when the three youngsters have all done pretty well, and Bell is the one remaining established player once Cook is rested and Prior invited to fall on his sword.
That leaves two - Read and Foster. The latter is the best keeper in the world and the more tactically astute leader, so would be my admittedly very reluctant choice.
Who Can Bowl Spin for England
Okay, we've established that Adil Rashid would have to arrange the assassination of every other spinner in England - including Nick Saunders - to get selected. So it might as well be Riley - Kerrigan will always struggle fo lack of pace and a repeatable action.
Who Can Open For England
Another tough one. I think Cook might well come again - he looks terrible at the moment and the technical issues will remain, but mentally refreshed he will do better and, lets face it, the tactics causing such issues amount to "pitch the ****ing think up to him", which is hardly rocket science, and he has managed near enough 9000 test runs with that technique...
Robson, the jury is out. He might make it, he might not - but for the rest of the Summer he can stay in situ and work at his game, because he clearly has the temprament to succeed. The question is who partners him...and the answer has to be Adam Lyth. Top runscorer in the Championship, making big scores in tough conditions and, lets face it, easier on the eye than Ian Bell...
How do we get Jordan Back in? (I think he'll score more runs than Stokes ATM)
Squad rotation, for a start. And by dropping Stokes.
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I think sometimes we over complicate things.
I think Cook does need a break and time to rebuild his technique. Gooch gave a very blunt interview last week saying as much. At the moment anybody is better than Cook, but long term he is important to the England team as a player if not a captain. To me it's a shame Prior is on the verge of getting dropped and he would be the obvious candidate to me. He's a leader in a team currently devoid of them. Maybe 3 tests as captain will give him the boost he needs.
We have a world class spinner in Panesar, use him.
Ali can be pushed up to open. He is an opener after all.
Jordan needs work and Stokes is too good a player to be at 8. That ton at Perth wasn't luck and he needs backing. I like the fact he's tried to pitch the ball up more than the others in this test. 2-40 and 3-51 are decent returns for a 4th seamer.
I do think Root should bat above Bell. To me Bell's form has tailed off since his promotion from 5 to 4. Root is an opener it seems silly for him to bat below Bell.
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To me it's a shame Prior is on the verge of getting dropped and he would be the obvious candidate to me. He's a leader in a team currently devoid of them. Maybe 3 tests as captain will give him the boost he needs.
I agree but to be honest I think his body is giving up on him. Playing through niggles etc is causing his quality of keeping to suffer
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I agree but to be honest I think his body is giving up on him. Playing through niggles etc is causing his quality of keeping to suffer
Think they would waste too many reviews if Prior was skipper, not quite as bad as Monty but I wonder what he is watching sometimes.
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England looking favourites just now. These 2 the key with what's to come
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Interesting debate on TMS as to what the team should look like in the next test.
Buttler for Keeper is the consensus of the team. They are pondering why Alex Hales and Joss Buttler aren't able to play Test Matches given their performances in 50 and 20 over cricket.
They think that if you don't do something about Cook, then its hard to do anything about anyone else.
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Vaughan on the bbc calling for cook to be dropped, and Morgan to bat at six and captain.
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Vaughan on the bbc calling for cook to be dropped, and Morgan to bat at six and captain.
Won't be dropped or kicked out as captain if they win this!
He'll probably be given till the end of the series if they win
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Rather daft shot from prior. Has to be his last innings and has to be dropped!!
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This is the thing with cricket.
While the pulls are going for 4 and 6 it's tremendous batting, but as soon as one goes to hand, it's a shocking shot.
Same with Anderson's reverse sweeps, praised at Trent bridge, but classed as stupid here.
No matter how you play, you'll always upset someone.
Play your own game!
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But that was crap batting!
Cook, and stokes need to be replaced for the next test IMO!
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Idiotic batting this. Prior's last test? Chris Jordan must be looking at this thinking what might have been too
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I'm sorry but this is just poor shot-making.
This is the BEST England can muster?
If I were Morgan, Butler and Jordan, I would be giggling to myself.
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3 short balls 3 wickets. Brilliant batting!!!
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An interesting 5-10 minutes
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What's wrong with the front foot/back foot defensive shots?!
India had THREE men on the hook...
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Shots from a team that have not won in ages!
Embarrassing when you get bounced out by a indian bowler with a 80 over ball!
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One word: Dumb.
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I had written off Ishant as a long option for India and now he comes back with couple of great spells. One yesterday evening and now this.
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Broad was using SH bat ???
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this is terrible
100 per cent credit to India
but we are at rock bottom. some may remember when Nasser got booed at the Oval when we lost to NZ to go worst in the world
the absolutle tragedy is we actually gave our selves a chance to win
we have indeed forgotten how to win a test match
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I had written off Ishant as a long option for India and now he comes back with couple of great spells. One yesterday evening and now this.
He does indeed deserve some credit here but I can't help but feel the batsman have gifted their wicket away.
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Brilliant win by India.
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So Trent bridge they were crying about the pitch, they got the greenest pitch possible, won a massive toss, batted on day 2 when conditions were perfect for batting and still lost by 100 runs
Will they send out the odi coach again for the interviews??
What could be the excuses now
#blamekp?
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This might be the last series for Cook as a captain
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Well done India - good win, and put the squeeze on an inept England side suffering from low confidence.
Must look at a couple of changes surely? Stokes has shown nothing that marks him as significantly better than Jordan (at the moment) and surely it's time for a mercy-killing of Prior and Cook?
Not many commenting on Ian Bell's lack of runs when the chips are down either :)
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Well played India, won the crucial battles and important moments!
I'm hoping this win will get more Indian fans at the next few tests, at Trent bridge there were move wives than rival fans, I feel with a good opponent following you get the better atmosphere.
England, well I've not a clue where to start, or where i'd end if I did so I won't say anything but this line.
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What could be the excuses now
#blamekp?
#weweres*!t
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England played worse than Chris Martin. He would have better judgement than the batsmen batting to three on the hook.
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Not many commenting on Ian Bell's lack of runs when the chips are down either :)
I have lol
Bring back KP and sack Moores!
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A lot of "bring back kp" on twitter.
Now if he was playing for surrey in the 4day game and slapping hundreds for fun. Then maybe.
But he isn't, he is doing pants in the t20 then getting on his helicopter/private jet to fly around the world acting like he's an a lister.
A return to England is not on the cards for him.
Drop cook, prior and stokes for definate currently. Letting the former and alter get some form back elsewhere.
Robson
Carberry/Compton/lyth/lees
Ballance
Bell
Root(c)
Moeen
Buttler
Jordan
Broad
Plunkett
Anderson
If a spinenr is needed go Kerrigan for Jordan or moeen, dependant on how strong you think you need your batting.
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I can't see more than two changes between now and next test.
Keep Cook. 'Rest' Stokes. Explain Prior 'has an injury'. Get in Jordan and Buttler.
Let Cook have the series, or until he has lost it at least.
Having a quick look at the stats on Howstat and (not undated from final day yet) who would have said that
Stokes
Kohli
Cook
Prior
Bell and
Dhawan
Would be 6 of the bottom 7 and all averaging below 20.
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This time last year the gloating was unbearable.
12 months on and English cricket is in disarray.
Ishant Sharma bouncing you out with an 80 over ball??? FMD!!!
Heads must roll.
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Ishant Sharma bouncing you out with an 80 over ball??? FMD!!!
^^^^ This. Even as an Indian supporter, I can't get my head around it.
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^^^^ This. Even as an Indian supporter, I can't get my head around it.
I guess no more green tops for this series :D
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I guess no more green tops for this series :D
That's the problem.
England were criminal on the first day in letting India get 290-9 with the ball doing all sorts. 150-200 was par. If India were 150-200 behind, not 30 odd then who knows.
Very sloppy in all areas. We've been spoilt with World class players and a good coach. Now we have neither (yet) and it shows.
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That's the problem.
England were criminal on the first day in letting India get 290-9 with the ball doing all sorts. 150-200 was par. If India were 150-200 behind, not 30 odd then who knows.
Very sloppy in all areas. We've been spoilt with World class players and a good coach. Now we have neither (yet) and it shows.
Sorry to sound like a broken record, but we are very much in a mid-nineties like state. It's horrible to watch, but it will take significant change to get us out of it.
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Sorry but how can Root even be considered for the captaincy?
He was dropped in Sydney for being a liability.
So he scores a couple of 100s at home and now he's the messiah?
Cook should be sacked and dropped. Bell and Prior also need to be axed.
Bring in James Taylor and Kevin Pietersen. Shastri said yesterday India only fear KP out of all their batsmen. That speaks volumes.
Stokes to be replaced by Jordan.
1. Robson
2. Ali
3. Ballance
4. Pietersen(c)
5. Root
6. Taylor
7. Read(w/k)
8. Jordan
9. Plunkett
10. Anderson
11. Kerrigan
Broad's injured so he needs a rest.
England need a spinner and Kerrigan's the one in pole position.
England need a classy glove man and a leader. Read fits the bill.
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Sorry but how can Root even be considered for the captaincy?
He was dropped in Sydney for being a liability.
So he scores a couple of 100s at home and now he's the messiah?
Cook should be sacked and dropped. Bell and Prior also need to be axed.
Bring in James Taylor and Kevin Pietersen. Shastri said yesterday India only fear KP out of all their batsmen. That speaks volumes.
Stokes to be replaced by Jordan.
1. Robson
2. Ali
3. Ballance
4. Pietersen(c)
5. Root
6. Taylor
7. Read(w/k)
8. Jordan
9. Plunkett
10. Anderson
11. Kerrigan
Broad's injured so he needs a rest.
England need a spinner and Kerrigan's the one in pole position.
England need a classy glove man and a leader. Read fits the bill.
Everyone knows that#s far too radical to happen, and anyway Ali looks pretty suspect against anything that isn't a half volley. I don't think Plunkett is that good a bowler anyway, I'd keep Stokes but of those who would swing a new ball with Anderson?
As long as team selection criteria remain old fashioned and rigid, England will suffer. They were lucky to have Swann, Trott, Anderson and Pietersen peaking at the same time. If you look at India, since the stars retired after 2011, selection was changed so that younger players with talent suited to all conditions were given a chance. They looked rough to start (Kohli, Vijay, Rahane and Shami) but given time they've shown they have the potential to be world class.
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That's the problem.
England were criminal on the first day in letting India get 290-9 with the ball doing all sorts. 150-200 was par. If India were 150-200 behind, not 30 odd then who knows.
Very sloppy in all areas. We've been spoilt with World class players and a good coach. Now we have neither (yet) and it shows.
I guess the problem is very basic - inability to take 20 wickets. The current bowling attack, especially the first and second change bowlers are ineffective compared to the one couple of years back. Swann and company would come in and get 2-4 wickets in the middle which is non existent now. this has added to the workload for Anderson and Broad.
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Bring in James Taylor and Kevin Pietersen. Shastri said yesterday India only fear KP out of all their batsmen. That speaks volumes.
Lol
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h76/smilley792/E3A21084-C6D0-490C-8688-22D7537A76B6_zpsflhjamea.png) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/smilley792/media/E3A21084-C6D0-490C-8688-22D7537A76B6_zpsflhjamea.png.html)
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More character in five tweets than half the England side have shown in four tests.
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We need to mix up the team bring back kp and get in some top performing county players then see who performs best in training and pick them.
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Prior steps down according to the verdict.
About time he went
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I might be wrong (probably am with the above tweet stream) but I though KP had laid into JT, snagging him off etc.
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India only has two dependable bowlers Buzz.
Kumar and Jadeja.
Shami and Ishant are always likely to go around the park.
India would've been more comfortable if they had R Ashwin as their 5th bowling option not Binny.
Poor judgement this time round ;)
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If only KP was playing Lvcc stuff and scoring runs.... #BringBkkP
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If only KP was playing Lvcc stuff and scoring runs.... #BringBkkP
Someone asked him on twitter if he was only gonna play t20 and his reply was.
Just t20........ For now.
Maybe he will appear in a 4 day game soon?
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Someone asked him on twitter if he was only gonna play t20 and his reply was.
Just t20........ For now.
Maybe he will appear in a 4 day game soon?
Please do KP.. You should have done anyway just to stick two fingers up to the haters
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If only it was 3 years ago and KP was scoring runs and didn't have a dodgy knee making him a liability in the field
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As much as kp isn't in the runs, he has a dodgy knee, can be a tool, and has the worlds most annoying man as a friend.
He'd still trott out there at 4 with all the swagger, and try to impose himself on the oppo, he'd show no fear. And the oppo would still think, better get him early, as if he come off, it could be curtains for us.
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The attitude and the way one player plays can actually spread that positive vibe to others in the team!
Whether it would work or not......who knows!
But it has to be an improvement on this huge negative cloud that is sitting over the team currently!
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Got to say I'd like to see Chris Read come in for Matt Prior, but with no real bowler to stand up to, the likely candidate to step in is Buttler.
My realistic line up for the next test would be:
Cook / Robson / Ballance / Bell / Root / Patel / Buttler / Broad / Briggs / Anderson / Finn
My more radical line up:
Compton / Hales / Ballance / KP (C) / Root / Patel / Read / Broad / Briggs / Anderson / Finn
Give KP the captaincy short term while Root continues to develop and grow into test cricket, also nurture him into the next captain for a couple of years down the line. Won't happen, but it wouldn't hurt to do something more radical in terms of changes... ;)
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Got to say I'd like to see Chris Read come in for Matt Prior, but with no real bowler to stand up to, the likely candidate to step in is Buttler.
My realistic line up for the next test would be:
Cook / Robson / Ballance / Bell / Root / Patel / Buttler / Broad / Briggs / Anderson / Finn
My more radical line up:
Compton / Hales / Ballance / KP (C) / Root / Patel / Read / Broad / Briggs / Anderson / Finn
Give KP the captaincy short term while Root continues to develop and grow into test cricket, also nurture him into the next captain for a couple of years down the line. Won't happen, but it wouldn't hurt to do something more radical in terms of changes... ;)
Mate your realistic lineup is far from realistic!
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Let's be honest, the team will be unchanged bar Prior (Buttler) and at a push, some rotation of the seamers.
My ideal, but never going to happen XI
Cook
Hales
Ballance
KP
Root
Bell
Read (c)
Broad
Anderson
Finn
Panesar
Whether it would be successful, we will never know. But it would be bloody entertaining
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Mate your realistic lineup is far from realistic!
Considering how our team has performed it is. Too many poor performances, and the bowling attack hasn't been up to scratch.
Patel is the guy I would have brought in before Ali, I'd even have considered Bopara before Ali. Might be harsh to drop him, but I favour Patel and Bopara.
Buttler for Prior is a given, unless the selectors actually want the best gloveman in the country behind the sticks.
Briggs gives us a spinner, he can also bat to add some needed depth.
Finn is the bowler I would have chosen as the third seamer. Plunkett has done ok, but long term I see Finn as the better option.
I think four changes is realistic, though perhaps the more likely ones would be for Robson, Prior, Stokes and either Broad or Anderson to let them rest.
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Lots seem to be dismissing Robson - what has he done wrong?
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Considering how our team has performed it is. Too many poor performances, and the bowling attack hasn't been up to scratch.
Patel is the guy I would have brought in before Ali, I'd even have considered Bopara before Ali. Might be harsh to drop him, but I favour Patel and Bopara.
Buttler for Prior is a given, unless the selectors actually want the best gloveman in the country behind the sticks.
Briggs gives us a spinner, he can also bat to add some needed depth.
Finn is the bowler I would have chosen as the third seamer. Plunkett has done ok, but long term I see Finn as the better option.
I think four changes is realistic, though perhaps the more likely ones would be for Robson, Prior, Stokes and either Broad or Anderson to let them rest.
Patel has had his chance and fallen off the radar. Can't see him being recalled any time soon.
Buttler for Prior yes, but it shouldn't be!
Briggs gives a slow bowler, he doesn't turn it. Kerrigan is next in line for a go at the spinners role.
Finn isn't likely to be back for a while after the tour of Australia ruined him, he's basically back to where he was a couple of years ago now.
Four changes isn't realistic, there will be the one enforced change, Buttler for Prior and possibly Jordan for Stokes (which I don't personally want to see as I want Stokes to do well) if Peter Moores is feeling adventurous. Same old England...
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Lots seem to be dismissing Robson - what has he done wrong?
Constantly snicking off floaty drive balls, not what we need at the top of the order.
Give him to the end of the series though before giving him the axe, seems unfair to ditch someone on such a limited sample (but Compton went after one bad series so what's to stop it happening again?)
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Four changes isn't realistic, there will be the one enforced change, Buttler for Prior and possibly Jordan for Stokes (which I don't personally want to see as I want Stokes to do well) if Peter Moores is feeling adventurous. Same old England...
Perhaps sticking with the players is the right thing to do, see if they have the bottle to fight back and perform. But to be honest, some of them showed their lack of back bone today (ie Prior and Stokes particularly) and that's a worrying trend. Granted some aren't in form, but the lack of fight and tenacity is worrying if this is the core going forwards.
The least I'd do is replace Prior and Stokes for the next test, but more changes can be argued for due to how out of form some of the players are. A break could benefit them, though like you say, too many changes isn't the England way.
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Constantly snicking off floaty drive balls, not what we need at the top of the order.
Give him to the end of the series though before giving him the axe, seems unfair to ditch someone on such a limited sample (but Compton went after one bad series so what's to stop it happening again?)
Another issue is he squares up and is prone to LBW.
Might be unfair to drop him, but can he fix these issues with his technique at the highest level in a team under a ton of pressure?
It will be difficult. The issue is who replaces him. Compton didn't seem to be popular by all accounts. Carberry didn't seem to be able to convert his starts. An interesting option could be Hales. He's in good form and would give England an attacking opener, but does he have the technique for a test match opener? I'm not sure.
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Matt Prior has withdrawn himself from the rest of the series and possibly till the end of the summer/year.
Gutsy decision. Shows the man strength.
Great servant of English cricket and the best wicketkeeper batsman.
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Personally I think Robson has the class and ability. It's just that the way the team is capitulating won't be helping the confidence of the new guys. With Root playing well, perhaps he could go back up to open with Robson in the middle order. Having said that Carberry did nothing wrong in Australia (2nd highest run scorer from memory) and is not in the side. That still puzzles me...
Same with Stokes. He has that something that Jordan doesn't have. Dumping Stokes now won't do him or English cricket much good as I don't think Jordan is a long term proposition.
The biggest issue is the tactics and/or the inability to execute. Everyone in the team has the skill and talent. But to be beaten through poor bowling on a green top and then bounced out by an Indian bowling attack tells me that there is a general lack of direction and leadership. They need someone in the leadership team (ie coach, captain and vice captain) with a bit of mongrel to get everyone to spark up and perform. Might be a bit left field but maybe Broad should have a go as captain?
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Not a fan of the Root to open bandwagon, load of rubbish, he's scoring runs where he is why move the one guy who's shown some fight during the home tests...
Dunno what Adam Lyth has to do to get into the side, bags upon bags of runs!
Robson will fail the next 2/3 tests and once Cook goes end of the series, Hales and Lyth for me.
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Dunno what Adam Lyth has to do to get into the side, bags upon bags of runs!
Play for Lancashire, Middlesex or Slurry?
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Play for Lancashire, Middlesex or Slurry?
Doesn't practically half the England squad play for Yorkshire though? Always make me laugh when people say there is a bias from the ECB toward certain counties.
Anyway, Moeen Ali needs dropping for me. His two dismissals were pathetic, cowering from the short ball. Shame as he looked decent otherwise.
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Couldn't be more of a knee jerk reaction than to drop Ali.
Guy made a gritty (almost) match saving ton against Sri Lanka, made a promising start with the bat.
Taken 10 wickets at 40 odd against two teams brought up on spin. Not exactly got out bunnies either. Was underbowled by Cook in both series. He wont be the answer to Englands lack of a spinner, but for me he's done himself no harm in his first few tests!
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Couldn't be more of a knee jerk reaction than to drop Ali.
Guy made a gritty (almost) match saving ton against Sri Lanka, made a promising start with the bat.
Taken 10 wickets at 40 odd against two teams brought up on spin. Not exactly got out bunnies either. Was underbowled by Cook in both series. He wont be the answer to Englands lack of a spinner, but for me he's done himself no harm in his first few tests!
Agree on that point. He has performed his role better than most. And like you said he almost saved a test with a ton only 2 tests ago.
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Agree on that point. He has performed his role better than most. And like you said he almost saved a test with a ton only 2 tests ago.
I agree, he scored a very gritty ton. However the pitch was dead and to my memory Sri Lanka didn't barrage him with short balls. From what I have seen as soon as the ball goes short, his head turns and he's throws his hands at it. Now if I have noticed that, then other teams researchers will have seen it and I can guarantee he'll be getting a lot more chin music and less of the half volleys.
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I'm never sure of this "can't play the short ball" theory with players.
There are plenty guys in county / state / province cricket quicker than the guys being picked as test bowlers (in most countries cases)
Yet these guys make big scores consistently. Agreed with some it is a big flaw, however they find a way to score runs.
Michael Clarke can't play the short ball, so they said. Still came out of that SA series pretty nicely.
Personally don't think there are too many around who play the short ball well, it's not comfortable getting it peppered round your ears at 90. Or at any pace for that matter.
I think he's shown some fight and I think he's exactly the type that England need at this moment!
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the fact is the flair has largely been removed from English cricket.
As I have mentioned just occasionally (reaches for the broken record) - one of the top three needs to be a genuine hitter of the ball - in general test matches are played on flat tracks and the ball doesn't do a great deal - so having a Warner or Darwan (or god forbid a Hales) at the top of the order to put the opposition bowlers under pressure is imperative.
At the moment we have a whole team of blockers. it wont work.
I genuinely believe that Jos will come into the team and have his flare coached out of him.
I am also massively concerned at how whenever a fast bowler comes into the England set up they start losing pace.
Personally I am not interested in fight - I am interested in people who have a brain and leadership abilities. I am not interested in yes men.
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https://twitter.com/ECB_cricket/status/491601768858783745/photo/1
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so they've dropped Kerrigan, without giving him a game (and now once again have no spinning option if required)
Obvisouly, as most predicted, Buttler is a straight swap for Prior, it's just now a decision as to whether Jordan and/or Woakes comes into the side to give the pace bowlers a rest.
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Woakes seems to get a fair bit of 'don't rate him' comments on here and elsewhere
I wonder with the balance of the team thou whether he may be suited to slot in down the order and take some pressure off broad and anderson.
I actually think England might rest Broad and pick Woakes anyway and perhaps stick with Stokes....
England are trying to bridge the gap between winning(which we hav'nt done much of) and blooding new players..
just my opinion of course but I would of had james foster in instead of Buttler also, or Chris Read having watched him at Lords in a masterclass.Not sure who is the best keeper out of those two-they are both class in my book...
but we hav'nt gone down that road...Buttler is not a good keeper at present,terrific talent but not good enough with the gloves.
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I think they might swap Woakes for Stokes or Plunkett. Not point in resting Anderson as he has a nice break looming (possibly).
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If broads injured and needs a break, could be Jordan for broad, and buttler for prior, rest as is.
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i just found some numbers on Cricinfo as how many tests all the countries are playing since 2011 to current (3 years) . List as follows
1. Aus - 37
2. Eng - 37
3.NZ - 30
4. SRI - 29
5. Ind -28
6. SA - 27
7.WI - 25
8.PAK -22
9.BD - 15
10.Zim -10
I do see that the top 4 (infact top 6) countries have played almost same number of tests(not exact in number). How come only England Players suffer from burnouts? Also no disrespect to trott or thresco (Do understand they had serious illness), I think the ECB and the players should get their priorities straight. Also I guess ECB has the highest backstaff out of all other countries but couldn't they help the players with their issues?
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If the pitch has any live grass on it Chris Woakes would be worth a punt.
He actually pitches the ball up and could do a similar job to Bhuvneshwar Kumar.
I'd be axing Stuart Broad as he looks unfit.
Whilst Stokes can't buy a run, his bowling has been pretty decent. And he's a cracking fielder. Stokes is just a better cricketer than Chris Jordan in all three facets.
I'd give the new ball to Woakes as well.
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I am not interested in yes men.
Tell the ECB that, they've decided to go with yes men
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i just found some numbers on Cricinfo as how many tests all the countries are playing since 2011 to current (3 years) . List as follows
1. Aus - 37
2. Eng - 37
3.NZ - 30
4. SRI - 29
5. Ind -28
6. SA - 27
7.WI - 25
8.PAK -22
9.BD - 15
10.Zim -10
I do see that the top 4 (infact top 6) countries have played almost same number of tests(not exact in number). How come only England Players suffer from burnouts? Also no disrespect to trott or thresco (Do understand they had serious illness), I think the ECB and the players should get their priorities straight. Also I guess ECB has the highest backstaff out of all other countries but couldn't they help the players with their issues?
How did you work that out - Eng/Aus have played nearly 25% more tests?
Ryan Harris is having his knee repaired (again), Pattinson has another stress fracture. We aren't alone in having problems.
ODI's/T20's wouldn't help. Plus England are the only Northern Hemisphere team (or play tests during the summer). It means all year round cricket. Most other countries get significant breaks in their calendars. It's as much the constant grind which causes niggles and mentally wears you down. Bell/Cook/Prior/Anderson/Broad are probably shot to pieces after 15 months of Ashes cricket followed by home tests.
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If you want a reason, just look no further than the ECB. They screwed the schedule to fit back to back Ashes series in. Sacked a perfectly good coach who lost 2 series in about 4 years. Sacked our best batsman. Pretty much put Swann (injury)/Trott/Prior into retirement. Appointed a coach who only claim to fame is to beat NZ when they were rubbish, he lost to everyone else and forced 3 England captains to quit. Don't pick our only test quality spinner.
And you wonder why we don't win any games now.
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How did you work that out - Eng/Aus have played nearly 25% more tests?
Ryan Harris is having his knee repaired (again), Pattinson has another stress fracture. We aren't alone in having problems.
ODI's/T20's wouldn't help. Plus England are the only Northern Hemisphere team (or play tests during the summer). It means all year round cricket. Most other countries get significant breaks in their calendars. It's as much the constant grind which causes niggles and mentally wears you down. Bell/Cook/Prior/Anderson/Broad are probably shot to pieces after 15 months of Ashes cricket followed by home tests.
I would Have totally Agreed with you UKN if the 25% more tests played by Eng and Aus in an Year, but the number I had above were for the span of 3 years. physical wear down agreed, it happens with all the countries, mental wear outs is the one I am more concerned about. again as I said the players as well as the respective boards should get the priorities in Order.
Even the subcontinent teams play about same amount of cricket not especially test but if you include all forms of cricket, Mostly all the top 6 countries play roughly about same amount of cricket (+/- 5 %). I only hear Mental wear outs/personal priorities only from Aus/ENG and Nz cricketers. again not any kind of disrespect just trying to observe a pattern here.
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I would Have totally Agreed with you UKN if the 25% more tests played by Eng and Aus in an Year, but the number I had above were for the span of 3 years. physical wear down agreed, it happens with all the countries, mental wear outs is the one I am more concerned about. again as I said the players as well as the respective boards should get the priorities in Order.
Even the subcontinent teams play about same amount of cricket not especially test but if you include all forms of cricket, Mostly all the top 6 countries play roughly about same amount of cricket (+/- 5 %). I only hear Mental wear outs/personal priorities only from Aus/ENG and Nz cricketers. again not any kind of disrespect just trying to observe a pattern here.
I see where you are coming from but even per year it's 12.3 v 10 compared to the 3rd highest team (NZ) - still 23% more? You might only say it's 10-12 extra days but if it's 2 test series then including warm up games, team training and breaks between tests, it's probably more like 30 days on the road including travelling. 12.3 tests is probably near 4-5 months of solid cricket. If you are the Windies then it's almost 1.5-2 months less a year you are playing international cricket. That's before odi/t20.
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The game will never recover. It's run by accountants and businessmen. Cricket as a game is way behind ££, personal wealth, personal glory and jobs for the boys.
Sad but true. Just look how football as a sport is dying in the amateur areana since the money come into the game, let alone how badly international football in general is getting.
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I see where you are coming from but even per year it's 12.3 v 10 compared to the 3rd highest team (NZ) - still 23% more? You might only say it's 10-12 extra days but if it's 2 test series then including warm up games, team training and breaks between tests, it's probably more like 30 days on the road including travelling. 12.3 tests is probably near 4-5 months of solid cricket. If you are the Windies then it's almost 1.5-2 months less a year you are playing international cricket. That's before odi/t20.
Yes, you are true, but is that what they sign up for when they take up Cricket as profession now a days? :-[
Also observe that nobody complains about Mental & physical wear outs when they start Int career , but once they are like 50 Test pro, all the niggles come out. ;)
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Also observe that nobody complains about Mental & physical wear outs when they start Int career , but once they are like 50 Test pro, all the niggles come out. ;)
At the point at which their body has started to give up and they've been playing constantly for four years?
Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk
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I do think they play too much cricket. However, they need to play less ODI and t20 stuff and use the time between test series to rest etc. Rather than jet off to IPL type stuff.
Also, they are very very very well paid for what they do, so my sympathy isn't that great. I suspect many would do it if they could even with the risk of injuries etc.
The ECB need to ensure the 'machine' is geared well, working together towards a common goal. Currently with making venues compete for matches etc it's working against everything but the money men.
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Play for Lancashire, Middlesex or Slurry?
'Cos not many Yorkies get picked?
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NZ has the same problems with our rugby players. These days the All Blacks play pretty much year round with Super rugby, Test matches ITM cup and then end of year tours. These days the top players are taking sabbaticals (Carter, McCaw etc) for a year. And most have given up on ITM cup (Provincial rugby). If you want your best players playing test cricket then they need to have a break, simple.
As it has been mentioned on an earlier post, it seems like businessman are running the England team into the ground. I feel sorry for them, yes its their job but a person can only play and train so much before they break down physically and mentally.
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At the point at which their body has started to give up and they've been playing constantly for four years?
Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk
May it is time to look for a substitution rule in games especially tests...
I guess you have to start new stats all over again...
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I do not like the term rested. if you are not performing then you are dropped.. why do some players appear immune from this?
prior played with an injury so either lied when asked whether he was fit enough to play or told cook who went with his mate anyway... both culpable
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Think Buttler will go well in test matches anyone?
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i just found some numbers on Cricinfo as how many tests all the countries are playing since 2011 to current (3 years) . List as follows
1. Aus - 37
2. Eng - 37
3.NZ - 30
4. SRI - 29
5. Ind -28
6. SA - 27
7.WI - 25
8.PAK -22
9.BD - 15
10.Zim -10
I do see that the top 4 (infact top 6) countries have played almost same number of tests(not exact in number). How come only England Players suffer from burnouts? Also no disrespect to trott or thresco (Do understand they had serious illness), I think the ECB and the players should get their priorities straight. Also I guess ECB has the highest backstaff out of all other countries but couldn't they help the players with their issues?
Doesnt give a full picture though. The below list I've taken the top 10 bowlers (by overs bowled) for 2014, 2013 and 2012 and then merged them together. It's a bit messy, but the amount of overs bowled by Englands 2 main bowlers is staggeringly higher than any other team. The fact we have played all of these teams throughout this period as well. This isn't a post of excuses for the England bowlers, more pointing out the fact of the bad situation ECB has England in!
2012-2014
Player Mat Inns Overs
JM Anderson (Eng) 33 63 1339.2
SCJ Broad 30 55 1122.7
PM Siddle (Aus) 22 42 795.4
DW Steyn (SA) 19 37 737.9
TA Boult (NZ) 17 31 613
VD Philander (SA) 17 33 606.2
TG Southee 13 25 507.5
N Wagner (NZ) 10 18 373
M Morkel (SA) 10 19 360.5
BW Hilfenhaus (Aus) 9 17 338.3
RJ Harris (Aus) 8 16 304.5
TT Bresnan (Eng) 8 12 287
DJG Sammy (WI) 10 19 287
DAJ Bracewell (NZ) 10 19 281.4
KAJ Roach (WI) 7 14 266.3
RMS Eranga (SL) 7 13 262.5
RAS Lakmal (SL) 6 12 235.4
MA Starc (Aus) 6 11 209.3
I Sharma (India) 4 7 191
LE Plunkett (Eng) 4 8 186.5
Mohammed Shami (India) 4 7 158.5
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Doesnt give a full picture though. The below list I've taken the top 10 bowlers (by overs bowled) for 2014, 2013 and 2012 and then merged them together. It's a bit messy, but the amount of overs bowled by Englands 2 main bowlers is staggeringly higher than any other team. The fact we have played all of these teams throughout this period as well. This isn't a post of excuses for the England bowlers, more pointing out the fact of the bad situation ECB has England in!
2012-2014
Player Mat Inns Overs
JM Anderson (Eng) 33 63 1339.2
SCJ Broad 30 55 1122.7
PM Siddle (Aus) 22 42 795.4
DW Steyn (SA) 19 37 737.9
TA Boult (NZ) 17 31 613
VD Philander (SA) 17 33 606.2
TG Southee 13 25 507.5
N Wagner (NZ) 10 18 373
M Morkel (SA) 10 19 360.5
BW Hilfenhaus (Aus) 9 17 338.3
RJ Harris (Aus) 8 16 304.5
TT Bresnan (Eng) 8 12 287
DJG Sammy (WI) 10 19 287
DAJ Bracewell (NZ) 10 19 281.4
KAJ Roach (WI) 7 14 266.3
RMS Eranga (SL) 7 13 262.5
RAS Lakmal (SL) 6 12 235.4
MA Starc (Aus) 6 11 209.3
I Sharma (India) 4 7 191
LE Plunkett (Eng) 4 8 186.5
Mohammed Shami (India) 4 7 158.5
Isn't it more of a situation that England haven't had a good enough 3rd seamer to control the game? Finn was great but expensive, Stokes expensive, Jordan expensive. Only Bresnan could exert control and they bowled him into breaking his back.
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Nice MD, this gives more insight in to what ENG cricket is going through. Hope they give enough rest to seamers before world cup starts next year.
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Bresnan in that list! Never rated him at test level. But it is intriguing to see him not even mentioned since Moores took over, yet was seemingly always in when fit under flower.
Also trott just got his ton! When's he gonna be mentioned as a comeback for the three lions?
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I wonder how long Steyn will keep going. It's not his test overs that worry me but he plays a pretty major part in the IPL as well as t20/odi cricket (though SA do rest him for some games).
Anderson and Broad workloads:-
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jul/15/the-spin-james-anderson (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jul/15/the-spin-james-anderson)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/10869922/Through-blood-sweat-and-tears-Stuart-Broad-has-given-his-all-for-England-we-take-him-for-granted.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/10869922/Through-blood-sweat-and-tears-Stuart-Broad-has-given-his-all-for-England-we-take-him-for-granted.html)
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It's crazy how many more games/overs Anderson and Broad have played/bowled compared to everyone else between 2012-2014.
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It's crazy how many more games/overs Anderson and Broad have played/bowled compared to everyone else between 2012-2014.
It's mainly by virtue of playing a couple more matches. Anderson bowls on average 40 odd overs per match, Broad bowls 37 odd overs per match, Steyn bowls 38.8 overs per match. Harris bowls 38 odd overs for example and Siddle bowls 36.5 overs a match. In contrast Plunkett has bowled nearly 47 overs per match and Ishant Sharma nearly 48.
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I can sympathise with the pain these guys have gone through. I've never played anywhere near as much cricket, but even then, 20+ years at an amateur level produces plenty of injuries and dependencies on Anti-Inflammatories.
Still, the damage that they've done to their bodies is huge!
And they're still doing it. It's not hard to understand why not bowling flat out consistently has become common place. With that workload, both Anderson and Broad must be totally exhausted...
It also makes you wonder about the lack of runs that the English batsmen have been scoring and the limited strike power of the back up bowlers that has resulted in these two bowling so much...
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I can sympathise with the pain these guys have gone through. I've never played anywhere near as much cricket, but even then, 20+ years at an amateur level produces plenty of injuries and dependencies on Anti-Inflammatories.
Still, the damage that they've done to their bodies is huge!
And they're still doing it. It's not hard to understand why not bowling flat out consistently has become common place. With that workload, both Anderson and Broad must be totally exhausted...
It also makes you wonder about the lack of runs that the English batsmen have been scoring and the limited strike power of the back up bowlers that has resulted in these two bowling so much...
See my above post. They don't bowl so much, they just play more games.
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See my above post. They don't bowl so much, they just play more games.
They play more games because the other options aren't good enough, and therefore bowl more. This reduces their rest periods, and lets look at Harris for a moment. He's bowled slightly fewer games and yet has broken down a number of times as his body struggles with the work load.
It's the lack of rest that's the problem.
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They play more games because the other options aren't good enough, and therefore bowl more. This reduces their rest periods, and lets look at Harris for a moment. He's bowled slightly fewer games and yet has broken down a number of times as his body struggles with the work load.
It's the lack of rest that's the problem.
You'd pick your best side though surely? You don't see Dale Steyn getting rested if South Africa play a couple of back to back series? The problem is a too heavy schedule for the players. I personally would like to watch more test cricket but this is the balance the games organisers need to strike.
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After the India series we don't have a winter tour for the first time in years - the next series will be in the West Indies in April.
Here is another question - how many of the team will be going under the knife in September/October time???!
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After the India series we don't have a winter tour for the first time in years - the next series will be in the West Indies in April.
Here is another question - how many of the team will be going under the knife in September/October time???!
I read in that Guardian article that someone posted earlier that Broad has never had an operation.
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didn't he have something done to the split fat pad in his foot or whatever it was the other year?
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No apparently he just rested it and straps it up before games now
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Anyone care to explain why the ECB decided to start the third Test on a Sunday?
The Rose Bowl is a new Test venue, I think this will be their second Test, so by starting on a Sunday they've lost revenue from Friday and Saturday(which fall during the summer holidays)
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Anyone care to explain why the ECB decided to start the third Test on a Sunday?
The Rose Bowl is a new Test venue, I think this will be their second Test, so by starting on a Sunday they've lost revenue from Friday and Saturday(which fall during the summer holidays)
Because English cricket!
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I wonder how long Steyn will keep going. It's not his test overs that worry me but he plays a pretty major part in the IPL as well as t20/odi cricket (though SA do rest him for some games).
I'd imagine Steyn will play ODIs until we can win either the World Cup or the champions trophy.
Whereas he's near irreplaceable in Test cricket, so in the future I can see him misusing series with the lesser teams to keep fresh for the big series(AUS/ENG/IND)
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I'd imagine Steyn will play ODIs until we can win either the World Cup or the champions trophy.
Whereas he's near irreplaceable in Test cricket, so in the future I can see him misusing series with the lesser teams to keep fresh for the big series(AUS/ENG/IND)
Was that a typo?? Did you mean
in the future I can see him misusing series with the lesser teams (ENG) to keep fresh for the big series(AUS/IND)
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Anyone care to explain why the ECB decided to start the third Test on a Sunday?
The Rose Bowl is a new Test venue, I think this will be their second Test, so by starting on a Sunday they've lost revenue from Friday and Saturday(which fall during the summer holidays)
Only the ECB can explain that. I'd guess that they've gone Sunday to Thursday precisely because it's the school holidays. And because they are trying to play too many tests in too little time.
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Anyone care to explain why the ECB decided to start the third Test on a Sunday?
The Rose Bowl is a new Test venue, I think this will be their second Test, so by starting on a Sunday they've lost revenue from Friday and Saturday(which fall during the summer holidays)
Guess its mostly just a problem with scheduling, especially with first two being so close.
Very happy to be able to see test cricket at the rose bowl as it most likely deserves ;). Wouldn't expect much turn in the pitch as it hasn't tended to in the last few seasons.
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Anyone care to explain why the ECB decided to start the third Test on a Sunday?
The Rose Bowl is a new Test venue, I think this will be their second Test, so by starting on a Sunday they've lost revenue from Friday and Saturday(which fall during the summer holidays)
given the BCCI's quest for intergalactic domination they may have put their money's worth in...
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it is to fit in a 5 test series in 42 days.
a bcci decision. the ECB is subsidising the venue
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A bit of rumoured team news.
Some reports are suggesting that Stuart Broad will be rested, as England fear James Anderson will be banned for the final two Tests.
Other reports claims the two changes are Buttler and Jordan for Prior and Stokes.
TBH I'd like to see Chris Woakes in the side.
India have, rumoured, dropped Stuart Binny for Rohit Sharma. Seems a fair call as Binny has only bowled 20 overs in the first two Tests. And Sharma, statically, is a vastly superior batsman. Dhoni would move back down to #7.
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Ishant Sharma ruled out with injury.
Pankaj Singh, 29 year old seam bowler, debuts.
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Cook might have won the toss but won't be looking forward to the first session.
bit unfair on plunkett dropping him
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Anyone got any idea who Pankaj Singh is?
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Anyone got any idea who Pankaj Singh is?
Nope.
What did plunkett do wrong?? Maybe he wasn't nice in a team meeting :)
Come on Cook, get some runs lad
As I typed.. First ball of the match, nick to slip :( oh dear
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Hmmmm. Not sure ont his. Two many changes, or not enough Changes.
Plunkett should still be in.
Cook should be no where near the ageas bowl.
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I wouldn't have dropped Stokes, he was still contributing well with the ball and was batting at 8 anyway, he's shown he can do it at the level and will find form again. Getting dropped for your batting while you're still contributing with the ball while batting at eight is pretty (No Swearing Please).
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he was picked over jordon because of his batting, jordan is a better bowler. Jordan is in better form currently...so understandable decision.
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he was picked over jordon because of his batting, jordan is a better bowler. Jordan is in better form currently...so understandable decision.
Are we on about the same Ben Stokes and Chris Jordan?
Stokes is better than Jordan with the ball, in the field and will come good with the bat, when in form he's again better than Jordan.
Way to shatter the confidence of our best upcoming player.
Plunkett's unlucky to have been dropped too, he's done nothing wrong.
#MooresOut
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Cook 50. Yeah, he has had a life, but first step back to old self.
Hopefully he can get his old form back full time.
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Are we on about the same Ben Stokes and Chris Jordan?
Stokes is better than Jordan with the ball, in the field and will come good with the bat, when in form he's again better than Jordan.
Way to shatter the confidence of our best upcoming player.
Plunkett's unlucky to have been dropped too, he's done nothing wrong.
#MooresOut
Have you watched Jordan in the field? He has fantastic hands and is a brilliant slip fielder, I have seen him take some quality catches in the slips at domestic and International level
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Stokes and Jordan - there is a bit of debate and Stokes on form will be the stronger batsman, although Jordan is no mug with the bat! Both can bowl and both can field.
But surely it must come down to current form? And Jordan has shown good form with bat and ball, whereas stokes has shown that he is not on form at the moment.
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Have you watched Jordan in the field? He has fantastic hands and is a brilliant slip fielder, I have seen him take some quality catches in the slips at domestic and International level
He's not suggesting Jordan isn't very good in the field, just that he bleieves Stokes is better.
I've thought Stokes has actually bowled quite well through this series, hasn't had too much luck either. Only Anderson has more wickets for England.
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So Jordan for Plunkett then.
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Have you watched Jordan in the field? He has fantastic hands and is a brilliant slip fielder, I have seen him take some quality catches in the slips at domestic and International level
Yes I have, and yes Jordan is a brilliant slip fielder, but I feel Stokes offers more in the field in different positions, and think he'll save more round over the course of a test match than Jordan, making him in my mind the better fielder.
So Jordan for Plunkett then.
Plunkett is a genuine strike bowler (and arguably England's best bowler this summer) who has been unfairly dropped.
Stokes is far from the finished article, and may be England's new ball bowler in a few years, but if we needed a wicket I'd rather Plunkett bowl, and if we needed economy, I'd rather see Plunkett bowl.
Stokes is an exciting prospect and he'll (hopefully) be a main contributor in the side for years to come. Dare I say it, I'd 'rest' the undroppable Broad to get him in the side for the next test, and with Jimmy likely to be banned Plunkett will also return.
Or even better Stokes for Woakes, that would make more sense (and could have bought in Jordan for Plunkett today if clueless Peter had to get Jordan in the side).
#MooresOut
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Stokes is the only bowler who has consistently pitched it up. He also bowled the quickest ball in the last test. Jordan is more of a bang it in bowler. That said stokes was feeling his side a lot in the last match, maybe he has a bit of a niggle?
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Stokes is the only bowler who has consistently pitched it up. He also bowled the quickest ball in the last test. Jordan is more of a bang it in bowler. That said stokes was feeling his side a lot in the last match, maybe he has a bit of a niggle?
Hadn't noticed that, so maybe that is why he wasn't included today.
I think Jordan has done well in the ODI side, but to me he feels like a poor man's Andrew Flintoff style player in the test side (and not as good with the bat or ball). Would prefer Stokes in the side, but we'll see what Clueless Peter thinks going forward.
#MooresOut
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Anyway, back to the players who have been selected, 186-1 at tea, Cook 82*, Ballance 72*
England making slow but steady progress, most importantly only 1 down currently, theoretically with a very long batting lineup.
All down to the players so far, not the coach though, so still #MooresOut
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Nobody has hinted or made it clear.....but I do get a nagging 'sixth sense' feeling that a few people want Moores out already?
Its extremely perceptive (some would say psychic) of me!!!
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If these series were away I'd be prepared to offer more time but I was very proud of England's home record, losing to Sri Lanka at the home of cricket was very distressing!
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Are you sure the Sri Lankan series was a "home series"?
Those pitches could have been Galle or Colombo...
Who needs home advantage? England is far more sporting than that...
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Cook goes for 95. He's properly happy he got a few runs but this pitch is shocking.
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Also what's wrong with the groundsmen in England?
The last match at Lords, that was an excellent Test pitch.
But the other 4 Tests this summer all the pitches have been dead
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Cook goes for 95. He's properly happy he got a few runs but this pitch is shocking.
First steps back to being a top quality opener. Hopefully he can take this form on going forward.
Haven't seen the pitch yet, but always difficult to really say how bad/dead it is until a couple of days in.
Might be designed to be a bit more lively at a shorter length so more suited to English bowling.
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Another century for Ballance, joining an exclusive list of five with Jack Russell and Ravi Bopara.
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Time will tell if this pitch will be any good as it is often not the best idea to judge too early.
That said, Dhoni has been incredibly negative with his field placings and the leg side spin theory (although picked up Cook in the end) has been awful to watch and not a good advert for test cricket.
This stinks of we are 1-0 up so i'm taking time out of the game and making it hard for England to score quickly and rack up a decent total.
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Cook goes for 95. He's properly happy he got a few runs but this pitch is shocking.
I bet the eng bowlers get loads more from it.
big call I know, but the rose bowl usually has good pace and carry.
I am also interested to see how woakes plays, very fine county player. Selvey, who has been the ECB mouse for the last 6 months says he has got quicker etc.
if he hasn't this will be a tough game for him.
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I bet the eng bowlers get loads more from it.
big call I know, but the rose bowl usually has good pace and carry.
I am also interested to see how woakes plays, very fine county player. Selvey, who has been the ECB mouse for the last 6 months says he has got quicker etc.
if he hasn't this will be a tough game for him.
With regards to pace and bounce.
Pankaj Singh is 6ft 6/6ft 7 and in his second spell was bowling pretty briskly. He was in the 86/88mph range pretty much for his whole spell. Yet the ball wasn't flying through.
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Hmmm. Cook out on 95. Jug avoidance I think...
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Hmmm. Cook out on 95. Jug avoidance I think...
Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk
in his shoes, I suspect he would have been happy to buy the Gatorade!
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After the India series we don't have a winter tour for the first time in years - the next series will be in the West Indies in April.
Here is another question - how many of the team will be going under the knife in September/October time???!
Quite a few, one would think.
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Also what's wrong with the groundsmen in England?
The last match at Lords, that was an excellent Test pitch.
But the other 4 Tests this summer all the pitches have been dead
Drainage has ruined the tracks.
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With regards to pace and bounce.
Pankaj Singh is 6ft 6/6ft 7 and in his second spell was bowling pretty briskly. He was in the 86/88mph range pretty much for his whole spell. Yet the ball wasn't flying through.
just watching the highlights.
no way this guy is bowling faster than about 83.
India were ragged today.
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Happy for Cook on a personal level, but he really should go as captain. I'd still pick him as opener, though the amount of chances he's had must make Compton / Carberry sick to the stomach. Bell will probably score a few tomorrow as well.
Thought India and Dhoni reverted to type and played defensive cricket from the start (ie in selection). India should see that England are there for the taking and been more positive with team selection...
The pitches in England are truly characterless. Is it really that hard to have a pitch with decent pace and bounce?
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I think Pankaj S. can produce more pace if he leans down little bit, 2nd spell he didn't look too good.
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Happy for Cook on a personal level, but he really should go as captain. I'd still pick him as opener, though the amount of chances he's had must make Compton / Carberry sick to the stomach.
he's done a bit more than they did to earn those chances to be fair.
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As soon as England are doing well, everyone shuts up ;)
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As soon as England are doing well, everyone shuts up ;)
Doing well? Easy tiger...
10 Tests without a victory isn't corrected by flogging runs on a dead pitch.
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Seems the umpiring is continuing to set high standards!
Not giving Bell out LBW last night and now the Ballance wicket.
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I'm an Australian. I don't know about English people, but I can assume that 'flogging runs on a dead pitch' would count as doing well
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I know about English people, 'runs on a pitch' would count as doing well
Corrected that quote for you ;)
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Doing well? Easy tiger...
10 Tests without a victory isn't corrected by flogging runs on a dead pitch.
Got to start somewhere though....
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Seems the umpiring is continuing to set high standards!
Not giving Bell out LBW last night and now the Ballance wicket.
That's Tucker on both occasions! Not giving Bell on the LBW, and giving Ballance on the catch that wasn't!
The Umpire panel will score him poorly!
To be fair India can't complain about that LBW decision! If they complain then they need to be told that DRS is available!!!
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Biggest issue I have is it encourages teams to appeal for anything again. I suspect it would of been tough in realtime to pick the trouser on the Ballance dismissal, but I do wonder whether they would appeal as strongly if they knew it would just get referred if it was a howler.
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Ballence nicked off when he was on about 20 yesterday and it wasn't given - there was a mark on hotspot (commentators said there wasn't, but it was clearly there!) and a noise on snicko so he can't grumble too much now.
I think the mistakes have so far gone our way in this game - but were very even in the previous one.
In my view doing well on this pitch would be having scored 350 yesterday on this track rather than 250!!
still we can't complain, this is much better than it has been for a long time and it is giving our bowlers some extra rest after their exertions in the previous game.
India's team selection is extraordinary for it's lack of bowling options and the extra batsman.
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Wicket looks absolutely dead-good toss to win for England. You can't be dropping sitters in the slips at test level though, if just means the bowlers get more and more frustrated. Those drops were the difference between 300 and 540! Reckon 2 wickets to fall tonight and England will be smelling blood tomorrow morning.
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Think the major problems with the pitches in the UK is the ECB don't promote lively and interesting pitches.
From a Hampshire perspective a few seasons back the groundsman at the rose bowl produced a fairly good turning pitch for a county championship (4 day match) that resulted in just over half the wickets in the game coming from spin bowling. If I remember correctly the match came down to the final few overs with a very tight and the most exciting finish I have ever seen in a domestic game where Hants just managed to defend their overall totals to draw the match, with Notts just requiring <10 more runs for the win . The club got fined a total of 8 points (half a win) for the pitch. The next match Michael Carberry and Neil Mckenzie put on a partnership of about 500 due to the flatness of the wicket resulting in a boring draw.
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Can someone really tell me India are being serious when they believe Jadeja is a better spinner than R Ashwin?
I've heard Ganguly say a few times 'Ashwin has a poor record away from India'
But the lad has only played 4 Tests outside India, hardly enough evidence to hang a man with...
Plus his 4 Tests have been in Australia(3) and South Africa(1). Neither of which are hardly spinning paradises.
Jadeja bowled well in South Africa but in New Zealand and England hasn't looked like getting anyone out.
Surely a lad with 100 Test wickets(Ashwin) deserves a go...
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I agree!! I am confused with Jadeja's role in the eleven. Is he there to chip in with a 50 once in a while or expected to pick up 3 wickets every innings?
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one back for India
Ali to Rahane, no run, huge appeal, spontaneous too, but it doesn't do much good. This is a good length ball turning down leg side, Rahane looks to tickle it around the corner and Hot Spot says there is a bit of glove involved! Lucky escape
- my view is that the "luck" will even out over the game with these decisions.
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one back for India
Ali to Rahane, no run, huge appeal, spontaneous too, but it doesn't do much good. This is a good length ball turning down leg side, Rahane looks to tickle it around the corner and Hot Spot says there is a bit of glove involved! Lucky escape
- my view is that the "luck" will even out over the game with these decisions.
Well hopefully he scores a hundred to make the most of the life :D
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Anyone care to explain how Jordan is a better option than Stokes or Plunkett??
#MooresOut
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Anyone care to explain how Jordan is a better option than Stokes or Plunkett??
#MooresOut
Who knows why Plunkett was left out...
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Anyone care to explain how Jordan is a better option than Stokes or Plunkett??
#MooresOut
Because he's not got an injury?
#CameronOut
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Because he's not got an injury?
#CameronOut
What, both Plunkett & Stokes are injured?? #NewsToMe
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India seem to have some decisions to make whether they lose or draw this Test.
Their batting line up needs a rejig.
Dhawan is a walking wicket and doesn't merit selection.
IMO Pujara should be opening. Rahane up to #3. Rohit up to #4 and Kohli done to #5.
Ashwin should be batting #6.
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What, both Plunkett & Stokes are injured?? #NewsToMe
Well Plunkett is supposedly, Jordan looks just as potent as Stokes at the moment thought in my opinion #ShallWeStopWithTheHashtags?
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Well Plunkett is supposedly, Jordan looks just as potent as Stokes at the moment thought in my opinion #ShallWeStopWithTheHashtags?
Oh go on then, I love a good hashtag though!
Am I the only one thoroughly unimpressed with Woakes or Jordan so far in this test??
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I've been impressed with Woakes at times, looks very similar to Anderson in his bowling style. Couple of times he seems to have slacked off a bit though. Like I said a minute ago, Jordan just doesn't look like a potent test match bowler to me.
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Plunkett was tired and being rested.
Stokes needs to get his head sorted for his batting and Jordan bowled as well against Sri Lanka as Stokes has against India So why not?
Woakes is showing that he deserves his chance.
India don't seem to know what they want to do.
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india seem to have set themselves up not to lose before a ball has been bowled...
i'm not sure why Ashwin is not rated very highly,i've watch him over the last couple of years and he looks very useful and could bat 6 in my opinion..
England are looking better,the workload on Anderson and Broad thou is still a concern for England fans...
stokes has bowled pretty well but batted badly so selection was a bit tricky for this game
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Given that Anderson is unlikely to be able to participate in the next two tests, might as well get as much out of him here as possible....
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India needs to cross 400 or this is over for them, their bowling is not that strong...
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I think Plunkett is a given for the next test. He may have had a niggle and England have used it as an opportunity to look at either Jordan or Woakes as to who is going to replace Jimmy if he gets suspended. Jordan isn't really exciting me and I'm not a big Woakes fan - I'd have Onions in personally.
Really wish Finn would come good again.
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I believe only chance India has to draw if they bat out the first session or even out the follow on score . If they manage to do so , there are very high chances of drawing out this match.
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I don't think England would enforce the follow on unless there's heavy cloud cover.
As they run the risk of India potentially scoring 450/500 in their second dig and setting England a chase off 200/225 on the final day.
England would probably want to bat until Tea and score another 225/275. Than give India 4 sessions to chase 450/500
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Onions is injured isn't he?
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I cant see this game ending in a win for either team. Conditions are very batsmen friendly and today will be cooler than yesterday but it is going to be a stunning day here on the south coast.
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Sky Sports spouting their usual nonsense again...
'India have been able to leave Jimmy Anderson very well. This is Jimmy the great bowler'...
Great bowler my ****
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For all those stat lovers, I saw a stat yesterday that Jimmy and Broad are only the 3rd opening bowling partnership to take 500 wickets between them.
The others being Curtly and Courteney and Wasim and Waqar
That surely makes them true greats... ;p
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For all those stat lovers, I saw a stat yesterday that Jimmy and Broad are only the 3rd opening bowling partnership to take 500 wickets between them.
The others being Curtly and Courteney and Wasim and Waqar
That surely makes them true greats... ;p
You can dream...
'Greats' don't average 30+ per wicket.
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Watch out, keyboard warrior Gerry's about! (And making the same point he's already made 300 times again, just in case we missed it!)
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Watch out, keyboard warrior Gerry's about! (And making the same point he's already made 300 times again, just in case we missed it!)
It's funny how you English love bumming stats when they favour your overrated players.
When I expose their shortcomings, I'm a 'keyboard warrior'...
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Sky Sports spouting their usual nonsense again...
'India have been able to leave Jimmy Anderson very well. This is Jimmy the great bowler'...
Great bowler my ****
Yes, you must be right. 364 test wickets is average. His career average is just over 30, but he's been well below that for most of the last 5/6 years.
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It's funny how you English love bumming stats when they favour your overrated players.
We do it every few weeks perhaps?
When I expose their shortcomings, I'm a 'keyboard warrior'...
Because it happens every couple of days?
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Yes, you must be right. 364 test wickets is average. His career average is just over 30, but he's been well below that for most of the last 5/6 years.
Whether you average 30.01 or 30.99 it's still over 30. Just like if you get a 70% degree or a 90% degree it's still a first..
Anderson home town bully. Limited talent. Bottles it when the going gets tough.
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Whether you average 30.01 or 30.99 it's still over 30. Just like if you get a 70% degree or a 90% degree it's still a first..
Anderson home town bully. Limited talent. Bottles it when the going gets tough.
And is so total rubbish in overseas situations that his average against India in India is better than his overall average?
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Think anderson is a knob but he has still taken 364 more test wickets than I ever will so credit to him! He has had stints in the past swinging it both ways that have been unreal. At the end of the day there haven't been too many bowlers in world cricket who have the ability to excel in all conditions.
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I'm not one to blow his trumpet but for you to type away that the bloke has limited talent when he swings the ball both ways at will is ridiculous. Yes he clearly prospers in English conditions but why wouldn't he? He is English and has grown up playing his cricket in this country so why would he learn a style that doesn't benefit where he plays his cricket?
You do say some sense at times but your continual Anderson bashing is incredibly boring. I come on here to read insightful comments, reviews and participate every now and then so unless a comment brings weight to a thread there is no point you recycling the same old comments and opinions every few hours.
Before you respond, at no point and I am suggesting that all the smoke blowing up Anderson from my fellow English participants in this thread are correct but people will support players from the country of their birth so give some credit where it's due. He has so far got 4 wickets in this innings on what is in your words a dead pitch which surely a bowler would find it "tough" to take wickets?
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I think one of the best comments I've seen about this match was on Cricinfo:
"India is badly missing Matt prior with the bat and behind the stumps."
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Ha ha ha that is quality Tim!
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And is so total rubbish in overseas situations that his average against India in India is better than his overall average?
Anderson at home vs IND averages 28
Anderson away vs IND averages 30
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I'm not one to blow his trumpet but for you to type away that the bloke has limited talent when he swings the ball both ways at will is ridiculous. Yes he clearly prospers in English conditions but why wouldn't he? He is English and has grown up playing his cricket in this country so why would he learn a style that doesn't benefit where he plays his cricket?
You do say some sense at times but your continual Anderson bashing is incredibly boring. I come on here to read insightful comments, reviews and participate every now and then so unless a comment brings weight to a thread there is no point you recycling the same old comments and opinions every few hours.
Before you respond, at no point and I am suggesting that all the smoke blowing up Anderson from my fellow English participants in this thread are correct but people will support players from the country of their birth so give some credit where it's due. He has so far got 4 wickets in this innings on what is in your words a dead pitch which surely a bowler would find it "tough" to take wickets?
Steyn and Johnson would've have a field day on this pitch...
But then they are world class.
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Was number 2 in the world at one point.
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Steyn and Johnson would've have a field day on this pitch...
But then they are world class.
So what? they aren't playing and nobody is talking about them so why even bring it onto an Eng v Ind thread? Makes no sense to me.
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Was number 2 in the world at one point.
So the first loser yeah?
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And guess what. Surprisingly enough, Dale Steyn, the he-man of fast bowling, for some unknown reason, also has a worse average away from home than at home. Well stuff me with a stick of Rhubarb and call me boycott's gran's last victim...
Isn't that nearly always the case...
But anyway, back to the match and the third innings is kicked off by Cook and Robson. With the bowling as it was, should England have stayed in the field?
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Anderson at home vs IND averages 28
Anderson away vs IND averages 30
The original post suggested that his average AWAY v INDIA was BETTER than his OVERALL average.
So with an overall average of 30.46 and with an average of 29.82 away v India, the original comment was correct and didn't really need the wrong statistics putting forward?
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Most wickets
Player Span Mat Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10
M Muralitharan (ICC/SL) 1992-2010 133 230 44039 18180 800 9/51 16/220 22.72 2.47 55.0 67 22
SK Warne (Aus) 1992-2007 145 273 40705 17995 708 8/71 12/128 25.41 2.65 57.4 37 10
A Kumble (India) 1990-2008 132 236 40850 18355 619 10/74 14/149 29.65 2.69 65.9 35 8
GD McGrath (Aus) 1993-2007 124 243 29248 12186 563 8/24 10/27 21.64 2.49 51.9 29 3
CA Walsh (WI) 1984-2001 132 242 30019 12688 519 7/37 13/55 24.44 2.53 57.8 22 3
N Kapil Dev (India) 1978-1994 131 227 27740 12867 434 9/83 11/146 29.64 2.78 63.9 23 2
Sir RJ Hadlee (NZ) 1973-1990 86 150 21918 9611 431 9/52 15/123 22.29 2.63 50.8 36 9
SM Pollock (SA) 1995-2008 108 202 24353 9733 421 7/87 10/147 23.11 2.39 57.8 16 1
Wasim Akram (Pak) 1985-2002 104 181 22627 9779 414 7/119 11/110 23.62 2.59 54.6 25 5
Harbhajan Singh (India) 1998-2013 101 186 28293 13372 413 8/84 15/217 32.37 2.83 68.5 25 5
CEL Ambrose (WI) 1988-2000 98 179 22103 8501 405 8/45 11/84 20.99 2.30 54.5 22 3
M Ntini (SA) 1998-2009 101 190 20834 11242 390 7/37 13/132 28.82 3.23 53.4 18 4
IT Botham (Eng) 1977-1992 102 168 21815 10878 383 8/34 13/106 28.40 2.99 56.9 27 4
MD Marshall (WI) 1978-1991 81 151 17584 7876 376 7/22 11/89 20.94 2.68 46.7 22 4
DW Steyn (SA) 2004-2014 74 140 15711 8560 375 7/51 11/60 22.82 3.26 41.8 23 5
Waqar Younis (Pak) 1989-2003 87 154 16224 8788 373 7/76 13/135 23.56 3.25 43.4 22 5
JM Anderson (Eng) 2003-2014 97* 180 21742 11140 369 7/43 11/71 30.18 3.07 58.9 16 2
Imran Khan (Pak) 1971-1992 88 142 19458 8258 362 8/58 14/116 22.81 2.54 53.7 23 6
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So the first loser yeah?
Mitchell Johnson has only ever reached number 2 aswell hasn't he? So surely a first loser can't be world class?
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Yep that Kumble must of been rubbish averaging 29.65, mostly taking wickets at home. Wasn't a great bowler at all. Ntini must of been average as well. Harbhajan Singh was terrible.
Greatness is a combination of factors. Anybody who gets up to 300+ test wickets deserves some credit.
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The original post suggested that his average AWAY v INDIA was BETTER than his OVERALL average.
So with an overall average of 30.46 and with an average of 29.82 away v India, the original comment was correct and didn't really need the wrong statistics putting forward?
Dunno what stats you're on about...
Anderson has 71 Test wickets vs IND @ 28.92
Tests at Home:
49 Test wickets @ 28.53 with 3x5WH
Tests in IND:
22 Test wickets @ 30.25 with 0x5WH
Stats are correct.
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Yep that Kumble must of been rubbish averaging 29.65, mostly taking wickets at home. Wasn't a great bowler at all. Ntini must of been average as well. Harbhajan Singh was terrible.
Greatness is a combination of factors. Anybody who gets up to 300+ test wickets deserves some credit.
Kumble played in an Indian side with pathetic seam bowlers. So outside India opponents just sat on him trying now to give him wickets.
Harbhajan and Anderson are the worst to reach 300/400 wickets.
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Ntini 'average'?
390 wickets @ 28. For most of his career bowling 145/150kph.
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Dunno what stats you're on about...
Anderson has 71 Test wickets vs IND @ 28.92
Tests at Home:
49 Test wickets @ 28.53 with 3x5WH
Tests in IND:
22 Test wickets @ 30.25 with 0x5WH
Stats are correct.
656/22 = 29.82
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Anyway, back to the game, should we have continued to bowl? Or was batting the correct decision?
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Harbhajan and Anderson are the worst to reach 300/400 wickets.
This is equally, if not more stupid than your "McCullum is the worst batsmen in the 300 club" post.
300 test wickets is a great achievement, just give the guys some credit, they didn't get them all by dumb luck!
No go back to your darkened room and watch highlights of Steyn bowling with your box of tissues at the ready. Leave the forum in peace please!
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There's a test match going on??? I thought this was the bash jimmy anderson thread....
How many runs ahead will cook feel safe? Wonder if he will go for the win or be overly conservative to rule out a loss
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656/22 = 29.82
Sorry forgot to carry one of the numbers...
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England should be looking to declare prior to Tea leading by 450.
That leave a second new ball just after lunch D5
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This is equally, if not more stupid than your "McCullum is the worst batsmen in the 300 club" post.
300 test wickets is a great achievement, just give the guys some credit, they didn't get them all by dumb luck!
No go back to your darkened room and watch highlights of Steyn bowling with your box of tissues at the ready. Leave the forum in peace please!
Darken room?
Steyn brightens up anyone's day with his bowling... :)
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Anyway, back to the game, should we have continued to bowl? Or was batting the correct decision?
Cook had to bat, with the short turn around between games it isn't worth the risk to his bowlers. If Broad or Anderson pick up an injury then England could have thrown away the series.
Give the lads a few hours off to rest up, then set them loose on India this evening.
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He certainly brightens up my day because he's class but I can only assume Cameron was making reference of the dark caused by the shadow under the bridge? ;)
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Anyway, back to the game, should we have continued to bowl? Or was batting the correct decision?
Should have made them follow on, ball was swinging, bowlers just had a nights rest, get the Indian openers back out there!
Negative tactics from England, assuming they're going for the "make sure we can't lose before we try to win" method.
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I have no issue with the decision to bat IF Eng are positive. If they bat at the same pace as the first innings there is no chance to win the game! Be positive, score lots then get back out in the field. I also hope Chris Jordan is working with the bowling coach
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Darken room?
Steyn brightens up anyone's day with his bowling... :)
YOU HAVE THE BEST SIDE IN THE WORLD THE BEST BATTERS AND THE BEST BOWLERS AND THE BEST BILLTONG AS WELL THERE CAN WE MOVE ON.
Do you know a bloke called JEET by any chance.
As for a the game i think it is a great test and England are fighting back.
2 decent sides going for it.
At the current time there is no vintage side in world cricket non that will be remembered for being great.
Anderson is a world class swing bowler there can be no doubt it.
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Darken room?
Steyn brightens up anyone's day with his bowling... :)
Not if you are batting.
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There was some comment about Buttler going straight into the nets, so they may have decided to send him out at three or four, depending on match position. Bell also has to wait some time before he can bat due to his time away yesterday, so that may have an impact on batting order.
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Not if you are batting.
Perfect from the non strikers end my friend :D
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It's a tricky one enforcing the follow on or batting again. I'm concerned we won't get on with it and bat to long. To me you need 4 sessions to bowl Indian out. Likewise if the ball does nothing then they will score at least 100 runs a session. That means 150-200 is a minimum batting again and they have probably 3 hours or 40 overs to score them in - if you include declaring 30 mins before tea. Something will have to give and I think Cook will play it safe and bat for an hour after tea and leave them 450-500 ie. don't risk losing it but get 20 overs in tonight.
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YOU HAVE THE BEST SIDE IN THE WORLD THE BEST BATTERS AND THE BEST BOWLERS AND THE BEST BILLTONG AS WELL THERE CAN WE MOVE ON.
Do you know a bloke called JEET by any chance.
As for a the game i think it is a great test and England are fighting back.
2 decent sides going for it.
At the current time there is no vintage side in world cricket non that will be remembered for being great.
Anderson is a world class swing bowler there can be no doubt it.
Here's the problem I have with term 'world class'
I'll use boxing as it's easier to explain.
Floyd Mayweather is world class. Pretty much no weaknesses.
Whereas Amir Khan can has displays of being 'world class' but can also get sparked out. So he has many weaknesses.
Anderson is a quality bowler, but calling him 'world class' is just wrong.
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Cook and Robson aside i think numbers 3-10 are all capable of giving it a biff for England. Whether they will or not though....
Would be nice to see them get inventive with the batting order
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A lead of 375 should be enough, if India couldn't score that many on a day 2/3 pitch then they shouldn't on a day 4/5 pitch!
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Robsons position appears to be in danger at the moment.
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World class is at the time though and agaist what you come against he was ranked 2 in the world the clue is in the wording.
You can only be as good as what you play against...
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There was some comment about Buttler going straight into the nets, so they may have decided to send him out at three or four, depending on match position. Bell also has to wait some time before he can bat due to his time away yesterday, so that may have an impact on batting order.
From what I've heard there's no restrictions on the batting order because of Bells injury.
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Famous last words but Cooks footwork looks so much better so far.
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From what I've heard there's no restrictions on the batting order because of Bells injury.
I think that time out the game only applies either during that day or during that innings (cant remember which - but it is probably a bit of both, i.e. bell couldn't have batted last night if england had got in, but hte 'clock' resets for today).
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There is a point where you can play with the order and a time when you shouldn't because you could end up getting bowled out cheaply.
At 300 ahead, you are fairly safe in the mixing up of the order, although I wouldn't be too keen to mix it up too much. Bell at 4 and maybe move Buttler up to 5, but Root and Ali can get on with it as well.
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I think that time out the game only applies either during that day or during that innings (cant remember which - but it is probably a bit of both, i.e. bell couldn't have batted last night if england had got in, but hte 'clock' resets for today).
Na, apparently it's something to do with the injury either occurring off field or being visually noticeable, not sure which as I wasn't watching.
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GB stiffed again
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GB stiffed again
The umpiring in this match and series without drs is genuinely dreadful twice now ballance has been done over, we need drs in this series if the Indians don't like it then tough
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Yeah I would have batted again. Right decision. The pitch is drying out and deteriorating from what I've seen but there is still a chance India could build a lead. You knock out a quick fire 200/250 runs and you put all the pressure on India, if they start to take risks and they don't pay off they will lose. It would be very hard for them to do anything other than block out, so right call for me.
Also hopefully Cook will get some more runs and that will only help him get right back into form, plus bowlers get a nice rest.
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The umpiring in this match and series without drs is genuinely dreadful twice now ballance has been done over, we need drs in this series if the Indians don't like it then tough
Say bye bye to any thoughts using DRS with India any time soon ,
ECB should have thought twice about these things before going in to bed with BCCI to create 'BIG 3'.
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re bell batting
from the icc playing conditions;
the player shall not be permitted to bat unless or until, in the aggregate, he has returned to the field and/or his side’s innings has been in progress for at least that length of playing time for which he has been absent or, if earlier, when his side has lost five wickets. The restriction in clauses 2.2.1 and 2.2.2 above shall not apply if the player has suffered an external blow (as opposed to an internal injury such as a pulled muscle) whilst participating earlier in the
match and consequently been forced to leave the field. Nor shall it apply if the player has been absent for very exceptional and wholly acceptable reasons (other than injury or illness).
So it does sound like it carries over - but because it was a blow to Bell's thumb & therefore an external injury it doesn't count as being timed out by the sounds of it.
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this is a fantastic opportunity for Cook.. He should just go for a T20 type innings here. hit the ball HARD. nothing to lose, and everything to gain.
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this is a fantastic opportunity for Cook.. He should just go for a T20 type innings here. hit the ball HARD. nothing to lose, and everything to gain.
Will he wait until he gets a ton or is out before declaring?
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Pull the plug Alistair!
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I'm betting 3.15... Twenty mins at the Indian Batters before tea. May go 3.25 and have 10.
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I'm betting 3.15... Twenty mins at the Indian Batters before tea. May go 3.25 and have 10.
I didn't realise you were privy to the inside of Ali Cook's mind!
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I'm betting 3.15... Twenty mins at the Indian Batters before tea. May go 3.25 and have 10.
Not a bad call. hope you stuck a couple of quid on that one :D
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Tea taken early scuppers that plan
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Who said England will bat 40 overs? I'm ready to accept plaudits now...
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Who said England will bat 40 overs? I'm ready to accept plaudits now...
Don't remember the .4 though mate ;).
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James Anderson acting like a (No Swearing Please) yet again.
Chucking abuse at Rahane for being pinged down the ground.
It's funny how Anderson mouth wasn't working much in Australia during the winter.
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James Anderson acting like a (No Swearing Please) yet again.
Chucking abuse at Rahane for being pinged down the ground.
It's funny how Anderson mouth wasn't working much in Australia during the winter.
Because no one else sledges....
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Because no one else sledges....
Because no one else is banned for the rest of the series.
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India 112-4 at the close.
They need 333 to win, England need 6 wickets.
Will it be a win for England, a rearguard action to save the draw or a world record run chase for India??
Could be an exciting day tomorrow, and if you can get to the Rose Bowl it's £15 tickets on the gate from 8.30 tomorrow morning.
Whatever happens it's likely to be in front of a near empty stadium due to the greedy ECB's stupid schedule. 5 tests crammed into 6 weeks is ridiculous, then the ground charging sky high ticket prices doesn't help!
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Because no one else is potentially being banned for the rest of the series.
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Just quietly, India are right up there with their run rate...
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It will all depend on the wickets...
Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk
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Just quietly, India are right up there with their run rate...
Big partnership tomorrow and it's on for India
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Seeing how rohit has played in past , I don't trust him to last for too long . My prediction , India will lose the match . Most probably in third session :)
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India to lose before tea. Shame really as they havn't turned up for this test. Made England look a decent team!
This test march has confirmed my belief that Cook should not be captain. He's much more important as a batsman. Doesn't need the added pressure of captaining. He can't keep winning all the tosses and batting first...
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Rohit gone early. Get in Jimmy!
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There is only one thing I enjoy more than seeing England getting beaten, that's seeing India getting beaten.
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Clubbie James Anderson's bowling average nearly below 30, if he gets under 30 will he get a knighthood?
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No, you will just have to put him into the 'World Class' category as that is what you said is the cut off to be that good.
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Gerry SA shoulderchip/bitterness aside - no-one really rates Jimmy in the same class as a moderate 'great' of the game do they?
He's very good in England, though can't really be taken seriously as ever in the top 5 quick bowlers in the world at any given period?
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Even Gerry must accept that Anderson is world class.
He just isn't as good as Dale Stein - who is an all time great.
What is interesting is Vernon the ball tamperer... he picks up a load of wickets because he has Morne and Dale at the other end.
Vernon isn't in the same league as Anderson...
Back on topic - this pitch still has decent pace and carry, has had something in it for the bowlers all game (poor old Pankaj aside) and has been a good test pitch with turn now.
It isn't our problem that the Indian's wont pick Ashwin.
I would love to see Finn back for the next test.
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Stuart Broad = world class
Steven Finn = potentially world class
Clubbie Anderson = one dimensional average bowler.
As for Vernon philander Buzzer, whilst he's has success, he close to being dropped...
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Gerry SA shoulderchip/bitterness aside - no-one really rates Jimmy in the same class as a moderate 'great' of the game do they?
He's very good in England, though can't really be taken seriously as ever in the top 5 quick bowlers in the world at any given period?
Anderson king at home
Goes missing outside England.
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Anderson's hitting form at the right time for us
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Anderson's hitting form at the right time for us
Just as he's about to be suspended? Hmmmmm.....
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Anderson king at home
Goes missing outside England.
So you missed the Tour of India in 2012 and the Ashes 2010/11, The UAE tour of 2011 then?
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Just as he's about to be suspended? Hmmmmm.....
Until anyone has the details of what happened, it would be hard to make a judgement on what punishment, if any, should be given.
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Gerry you change like the wind. Yesterday Anderson started as a clubbie then you called him a quality bowler and now he's one-dimensional and average again?
Perhaps Cameron was right.......life under the bridge must be dull!
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Stuart Broad = world class
What a load of rubbish. He's just a petulent little boy who gets on a roll occasionally. Rest of the time it's a shower of shirt.
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Video evidence has been submitted by India.
Anderson is a deadman walking.
He knows it.
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What a load of rubbish. He's just a petulent little boy who gets on a roll occasionally. Rest of the time it's a shower of shirt.
Clearly.
He's the only English bowler who can win a match of his own back. Any conditions.
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Chris Woakes, when playing for Warwickshire, looks the real deal. Near unplayable at times. But for England he's not the same bowler.
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Stuart Broad = world class
Steven Finn = potentially world class
Clubbie Anderson = one dimensional average bowler.
And with this one post goes any last shred of credibility
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Video evidence has been submitted by India.
Anderson is a deadman walking.
He knows it.
there is no video evidence
and india don't except the DRS anyway.
and
Stuart Broad = world class
Steven Finn = potentially world class
Clubbie Anderson = one dimensional average bowler.
As for Vernon philander Buzzer, whilst he's has success, he close to being dropped...
this is nuts. Anderson is far from a one dimensional bowler. All the other teams in the world would have him in their team.
As for Broad - he is like KP - a solid player with moments of inspiration and genius. I would pick Anderson ahead of Broad and day.
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Just a Wum
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Video evidence has been submitted by India.
Anderson is a deadman walking.
He knows it.
Interesting note in the Cricinfo article about Anderson from George Dobell:
"The outcome of the Anderson hearing might also be relevant to the series between Australia and India later in the year. While the England and Australia teams appear relatively comfortable with a certain level of verbal intimidation, it could be that India are taking a stand on the sledging issue."
Read into that one what you will. Is it simply a case of them being unable to come up with witty responses?
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Come on Moeen!!!
FEAR THE BEARD
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Was very much against Moeen's selection after his first few bowling performances, however he's improving with every game and is bowling well. The only concern I have is whether he'll be able to cut down on the poor deliveries so that he can hold up an end like Swann used to..
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Chris Woakes, when playing for Warwickshire, looks the real deal. Near unplayable at times. But for England he's not the same bowler.
I personally think Woakes has done really well and looked close to getting wickets on multiple occasions, would be nailed in my team for the next match, particularly if Anderson is not available.
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I personally think Woakes has done really well and looked close to getting wickets on multiple occasions, would be nailed in my team for the next match, particularly if Anderson is not available.
True but same could be said of Pankaj Singh. Singh is statically the worst debutant of all time...
Luck isn't on Woakes' or Singh's side in this match.
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Interesting note in the Cricinfo article about Anderson from George Dobell:
"The outcome of the Anderson hearing might also be relevant to the series between Australia and India later in the year. While the England and Australia teams appear relatively comfortable with a certain level of verbal intimidation, it could be that India are taking a stand on the sledging issue."
Read into that one what you will. Is it simply a case of them being unable to come up with witty responses?
I think the game is better for a bit of verbals. I find it funny how every major controversy seems to involve India, they seem to be outraged at anything
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True but same could be said of Pankaj Singh. Singh is statically the worst debutant of all time...
Luck isn't on Woakes' or Singh's side in this match.
For once I agree with you on something.
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Delighted for Moeen, he'll only get better.
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Who would have thought that Moeen would have got 6 wickets?
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Well that ended quickly. Good on Ali. Looks like jimmy going on a long holiday now :o
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Well done England, fantastic effort and pleased to be watching some decent cricket again. Really pleased for Moeen. He may have been gifted a few wickets over the series so far but so what. To take wickets against India on placid wickets in England should do wonders for his confidence!
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Well that ended quickly. Good on Ali. Looks like jimmy going on a long holiday now :o
I wouldn't be so certain. Given Jadeja seems to be able to appeal on losing his match fee when it wasn't possible, I wouldn't be surprised if Jimmy's offence is downgraded. All these countries bring lawyers into it and I imagine England having 11 guys who swear blind nothing happened will make it difficult to stick. I doubt we will ever know without CCTV. Even if he was found guilty, I imagine Jimmy could appeal it and delay things another test or two.
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Dhoni says Ishant is not playing at Manchester...Seems like the 'tightness is his leg' was actually a pulled/torn hamstring/calf...
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Who would have thought that Moeen would have got 6 wickets?
We've got to give him a run now, he'll be properly good in a few years
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Just watch Clubman Anderson's MoM interview. Atherton asked was he confident and Anderson's body language gave the game away.
Bye bye clubman.
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Anderson will be banned. Maybe he'll learn to keep his uneducated mouth shut next time...
We can't forget guys that Gerry was clearly next to them at the time so already knows the final verdict.
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India where granted the right to appeal after they provided a video of whatever happened in the Nottingham pavilion.
Anderson will be banned. Maybe he'll learn to keep his uneducated mouth shut next time...
You seem very sure Gerry. In the real world, outside the "I hate Jimmy Anderson" club, many things are shades of grey and lawyers are pretty good at getting clients off. Not saying Jimmy did or didn't say or do those things, but it might well boil down to hearsay. Both in Rugby and Football in the UK the offending parties bring lawyers to such hearings just to make sure the process is robust. Any doubt and the offence gets downgraded or thrown out.
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Just watch Clubman Anderson's MoM interview. Atherton asked was he confident and Anderson's body language gave the game away.
Bye bye clubman.
You're behaving like Anderson is public enemy number one. Just aswell there has never been any wrong-doing or controversy in SA cricket.....oh wait.
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You seem very sure Gerry. In the real world, outside the "I hate Jimmy Anderson" club, many things are shades of grey and lawyers are pretty good at getting clients off. Not saying Jimmy did or didn't say or do those things, but it might well boil down to hearsay. Both in Rugby and Football in the UK the offending parties bring lawyers to such hearings just to make sure the process is robust. Any doubt and the offence gets downgraded or thrown out.
An ICC level 1(Jadeja's charge) can't be appealed under any case.
That was until BCCI submitted this 'video'.
David Boon, who issued Jadeja's sanction, after hearing of this new evidence agreed to reevaluating the sanction.
Boon isn't a mug. So no smoke no fire.
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No smoke without fire?
Probably right but time will tell.
Talking of no smoke without fire... A certain troll who worships Dale and Michell, and even calls Broad World Class!
Dale is SA and undeniably the best on the planet! Mitchell and Broad are very tall and athletic. So maybe this troller has a rather big crush on Mitch and Broad? Hold on....this is making sense now!
The Clubman doesn't hold the same attraction to our little SA friend!
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We'd be winning Test matches papi...
Not beating up opposition players...
No you'd rather be cheating by tampering with cricket balls - twice
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Well, in amongst the Anderson bashing/defending, there was a very good win for England, on a pitch which was described as "dead", "draw is the only option" and "you'll never take 20 wickets".
Good things that have come from it.
Runs for Cook and Bell, first step back to their bests, hopefully this will continue rather than be a one-off.
Runs for the youngsters, such as Ballance. All looking very good for them.
Even Cook's captaincy has been better once there was some breathing space with the runs on the board.
Bowlers bowled well in general.
Moeen may, or may not be the answer to the spinners role, either way, he is improving
Buttler has shown why he was understudy to Prior, done well with bat and ball
Others
Robson could do with a score or two.
Cricket NEEDS DRS!!!
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For me what I think this test match demonstrated about Cook's captaincy is that he doesn't have the deft, intuitive touch that captaincy in tricky situations requires.
When you've got 569 runs on the board, you can work to a relatively straightforward plan and expect it to work reasonably well, as with such a mountain to climb, it inevitably plays on the batsmen's minds. There is less need to come up with ways to get the opposition out. Attacking fields and top of off stump bowling will do the trick.
When you've 269 runs on the board, that job becomes a whole lot harder as the psychological pressure on the batsmen has gone and the pressure is on the bowlers. When they start to splutter you need to have a way to come up with something and that's where the reading the game/intuitive side comes in.
I've seen nothing in this test to suggest that Cook is a great (or even particularly good) captain. Just plenty that suggests when England have made a big first innings total, it is much easier to captain the side. It's winning the really tough ones that will prove just how good he is...
On the other hand, what we've also seen is that when Cook gets runs, there is far more likelihood that other top order batsmen will, which is the crucial role he plays. And that is much more important...!
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Hopefully the Old Trafford pitch has something in it. Dull and boring wickets do nothing for the game.
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I am glad that Cook got runs in this test, this will give him more confidence and the rest of the team.
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We should all be a little cautious with the Moeen praise. He is a very good part time / no2 spinner, and I wish him well - but he is not a substitute for the real thing, and I don't agree with giving him a few test to get a bit better, which would just prolong England's unbalanced attack.
England should be picking a front-line spinner, even if it is the best of an average bunch - you won't know until you try.
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I don't agree with giving him a few test to get a bit better, which would just prolong England's unbalanced attack.
England should be picking a front-line spinner, even if it is the best of an average bunch - you won't know until you try.
So how long would you give a specialist spinner to see if he settled? Surely he would need a few tests and could turn out to be a failure. Yes it could be a success but there are no front line spinners stepping forward enough to warrant a selection so whether Moeen bowls or a newcomer, it will be a potential gamble as to what happens with a spinner. Runs on the board and consistent seam bowling makes any spinners job easier and can you see the England selectors bringing in a spinner after Mo got 6 wickets, especially when his place could be under scrutiny anyway?
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For me what I think this test match demonstrated about Cook's captaincy is that he doesn't have the deft, intuitive touch that captaincy in tricky situations requires.
When you've got 569 runs on the board, you can work to a relatively straightforward plan and expect it to work reasonably well, as with such a mountain to climb, it inevitably plays on the batsmen's minds. There is less need to come up with ways to get the opposition out. Attacking fields and top of off stump bowling will do the trick.
When you've 269 runs on the board, that job becomes a whole lot harder as the psychological pressure on the batsmen has gone and the pressure is on the bowlers. When they start to splutter you need to have a way to come up with something and that's where the reading the game/intuitive side comes in.
I've seen nothing in this test to suggest that Cook is a great (or even particularly good) captain. Just plenty that suggests when England have made a big first innings total, it is much easier to captain the side. It's winning the really tough ones that will prove just how good he is...
On the other hand, what we've also seen is that when Cook gets runs, there is far more likelihood that other top order batsmen will, which is the crucial role he plays. And that is much more important...!
Couldn't agree more! I am as delighted as the next guy that England have done so well but one swallow doesn' make a summer. You always need a bit of luck, and England certainly had some of that early in thier first innings, but lets reserve judgement until we see how they perform on a track that hasen't been tailor made for them and Lady Luk isn't so kind.
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We should all be a little cautious with the Moeen praise. He is a very good part time / no2 spinner, and I wish him well - but he is not a substitute for the real thing, and I don't agree with giving him a few test to get a bit better, which would just prolong England's unbalanced attack.
England should be picking a front-line spinner, even if it is the best of an average bunch - you won't know until you try.
First of all, I wouldn't class Moeen Ali as a part timer, I'd class him as a 2nd spinner. KP and Root were part time spinners, he's a lot better than them two. Secondly, looking at the current performers in the CC it's hard to see who would stand in as a good front line spinner.. Rashid, Borthwick and Patel are all 2nd spinners at international level and wouldn't really offer England anything more than Ali does now. Then if you look at the "pure" spinners, Panesar won't get picked now and Kerrigan is very much a risk due to the potential for a repeat of his performance against the Aussies.. And then most of the other potential candidates are a bit too young and inexperienced to get shoved into the deep end.. I genuinely don't see who they can bring in ahead of Ali and who they would drop to accommodate this new spinner..
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Rashid as a second spinner? He is winning matches for Yorkshire by himself at times.
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India have taken a step to breath life into their misfiring(mighty talented) batting lineup.
Naman Ojha, a batman/wicketkeeper, has been called up.
Can't say the lad doesn't merit a call up TBH, on India A's recent(and ongoing tour) of Australia - Ojha registered 219*, 101* and 110. Bradman like...
Anyway Ojha is capable of batting anywhere between 1-7.
So Dhawan and Rohit are under threat. Whilst a batting order reshuffle may well be on the cards...
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India have taken a step to breath life into their misfiring(mighty talented) batting lineup.
Naman Ojha, a batman/wicketkeeper, has been called up.
Can't say the lad doesn't merit a call up TBH, on India A's recent(and ongoing tour) of Australia - Ojha registered 219*, 101* and 110. Bradman like...
Anyway Ojha is capable of batting anywhere between 1-7.
So Dhawan and Rohit are under threat. Whilst a batting order reshuffle may well be on the cards...
I'm so glad he's made lots of runs for an A team playing against sub par bowling attacks on batting paradises, shouldn't trouble us too much.
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If Anderson is banned, and Stokes is brought in to replace him, potentially Stuart Broad could be number 11.
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Highly doubt that would happen, think it's much more likely we'd see Plunkett and Stokes come in for Jordan and Anderson or just Plunkett for Anderson. I still personally feel Broad should be batting ahead of Jordan anyway.
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Highly doubt that would happen, think it's much more likely we'd see Plunkett and Stokes come in for Jordan and Anderson or just Plunkett for Anderson. I still personally feel Broad should be batting ahead of Jordan anyway.
Highly doubtful, but still potentially.
I expect Plunkett to return, but who for depends on who is not available.
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I want to see Finn recalled for Old Trafford and the oval, two of the fastest pitches in the country (the Oval pitch has been quickened up again to suit the Surrey side's pace attack...)
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I want to see Finn recalled for Old Trafford and the oval, two of the fastest pitches in the country (the Oval pitch has been quickened up again to suit the Surrey side's pace attack...)
He was a handful in that surrey t20 last week. Would be interesting to see the Indian's play Finn, Plunkett and Broad on a bouncy deck. Thought Woakes bowled alright without much luck. Stokes bowled pretty well at Lords as well. Some decent options though hardly world class. If you wanted a genuine swing bowling replacement, who would you go for?
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cough
splutter
not really sure
boycott said... Bresnan!
is Onions available? :o
From where I was sitting at the 2020 (right behind the bowlers arm in the pavilion) Finn was a whole lot more than just a handful.
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I'd like to see Finn back in too. I'd like to see Saker removed from his post as bowling coach and moved to a consultant role, so he is on hand if Jimmy needs him. As far as I'm aware, Jimmy loves him but the others aren't fussed.
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Was a time when we could wheel out half a dozen swing bowlers for the conditions. Phil Newport, Richard Ellison, Martin Bicknell to name a few. All fine swing bowlers.
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2nd test cap for Darren Pattinson?? ;)
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Bhuvneshwar Kumar has damaged his ankle and unlikely to play in Manchester.
At least Pankaj's epic batting will be witnessed again! :D
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Bhuvneshwar Kumar has damaged his ankle and unlikely to play in Manchester.
At least Pankaj's epic batting will be witnessed again! :D
We can agree on that - Pankaj seems to be a fan favourite already.
Well,Well,Well
http://www.icc-cricket.com/news/2014/media-releases/81273/judicial-commissioner-finds-anderson-and-jadeja-not-guilty (http://www.icc-cricket.com/news/2014/media-releases/81273/judicial-commissioner-finds-anderson-and-jadeja-not-guilty)
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Seems 'the clubman' wasn't guilty.
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Saw Finn at Lords yesterday, have to say I was quite impressed - he gave Dilshan etc the hurry up and looked accurate enough on what was more or less a road. Him and Plunkett for Jordan and one other (maybe rest Broad?) for me.
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Sounds like the appropriate term may be "Much ado about (perhaps not) nothing"... As Chief Wiggum would say, "Nothing to see here, move along".
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Where's Gerry gone??
Oh Jimmy Jimmy, Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy Andersooooon!
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Where's Gerry gone??
Oh Jimmy Jimmy, Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy Andersooooon!
I think there is a story to come out about India. Aggers has tweeted about them briefing heavily on and off the record about Anderson. I suspect the whole video saga and Dhoni backing his player was a bluff to get Anderson to admit to something and off the park ,but the Aussie Judge saw right through it. As mentioned before, it was a bit extreme to give him a level 3 offence for a gentle shove and a few cross words. Level 3/4 offences are pretty much full on abuse and threats.
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There is an interesting article on Cricinfo relating to the Indians trying to "clean up" the on the pitch antics, and using Anderson as the scapegoat.
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Picked up on this on the telegraph site:-
On the ICC website's statement about the verdict there is a link to the Code of Conduct (a PDF).
It clearly states is section 2.3 that Level 3 offences include the following only:
1. Intimidation of an Umpire or Match Referee
2. Threat of assault on another Player, Player Support Personnel or other person
3. Where the facts of the alleged incident are not adequately or clearly covered by any of
the above offences, conduct that either: (a) is contrary to the spirit of the game; or (b)
brings the game into disrepute.
Under section 2.4 (Level 4 offences), there is the following type of offence listed:
- Physical assault of another Player, Player Support Personnel, Umpire, Match Referee or
any other person
I had come to believe that this was all about the 'shove' that Jimmy allegedly used on Jadeja - i.e. an 'assault'. But since they only filed a Level 3 complaint, it can only have been either 'threat of assault' or 'spirit of the game'.
In either case, how was video footage going to help?
But more strangely, there are clauses under Level 1 and Level 2 regarding use of language:
Level 1
2.1.4 Using language or a gesture that is obscene, offensive or insulting during an International
Match.
Level 2
2.2.8 Using language or gesture(s) that is seriously obscene, seriously offensive or of a
seriously insulting nature to another Player, Player Support Personnel, Umpire, Match
Referee or any other third person during an International Match.
If India don't like Anderson's verbals, why didn't they use either of these clauses to file a complaint, instead of using a physical altercation to lodge a 'threat' or 'spirit of the game' complaint.
Doesn't make a lot of sense.
Remember that this action was taken by Dhoni against the advice of his coach and without consulting the umpires, the match referee, or even his own tour manager. His own board even tried to dissuade him from taking this unilateral action. My guess is that he wasn't even familiar with the code of conduct when he made the charge. Otherwise, as you say, it should have been a Level 4 charge (physical assault of another player) or a Level 1 charge (offensive language) -- not a Level 3 charge. Maybe Dhoni was just fed up with Anderson's behaviour and wanted to upset him.
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Not sure this is the right result. Gerry is never wrong and will no doubt be contacting the ICC and quoting some stats to show them the error of their ways.
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Gerry be having better things to do on a Friday evening...
But whatever floats your boat/boats...
Anyway enjoy Anderson boosting his average this summer. As next year Australia and South Africa will put him in his place once again.
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This is bad news, Gerry being wrong for the 1st time ever, and the target off all his hate still allowed to play cricket!
Some one pm him the samaritans phone number.
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God knows what will happen when Anderson takes his average down from 30.09 to 29.99 in the next test, and becomes a great bowler.
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God knows what will happen when Anderson takes his average down from 30.09 to 29.99 in the next test, and becomes a great bowler.
Not just great, World Class....
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Gerry be having better things to do on a Friday evening...
Something better than bashing the clubman :o?
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I'm heading off for a "Jimmy Anderson is great" slap up curry with a some friends in a minute. Maybe Gerry might be doing similar?
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Where did I say an average under 30 would make Clubman Anderson 'a great bowler'?
World class doesn't mean great.
Philander is world class(average 21) but he's far from great.
Don't be putting words in my mouth...
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Something better than bashing the clubman :o?
Yeah boxing. Far more entertaining than the clubman.
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Level 3 charge, insistence of Anderson's guilt, 6 hours of evidence and a decision is reached in 10 minutes? Well dome dhoni, well done BCCI, you've finally become parody's of yourselves.
its the equivalent of a case being thrown out. We've known for years that the BCCI is on a power and money making trip, but dhoni really disappoints me. Makes a throwaway comment at the ipl about corruption in cricket, drives this ridiculous accusation - all ego...
i hope the ECB sends them their legal bill. They won't because its the BCCI and their man on the ground dhoni waving their wongers like helicopters showing that they may be in partnership with ECB and CA, but they still rule the roost. Good to see it backfired on them...
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Plunkett injured and replaced by Finn.
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Plunkett injured and replaced by Finn.
I'm happy about that. He's been looking good recently.
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yes good on Finn I find it interesting thou he had to go back to Middlesex to correct his action
Richard Johnson is the one who has worked with him...
or maybe there's a bit of aggro between middx and england I dont think big Gus was impressed with the way he was handled over the winter.
90mph bowlers dont come along that often and need to be looked after
if he plays at old trafford he could give the Indian batsmen the hurry up
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I like Steven Finn but I don't think he's ready for recall.
He's taken a lot of wickets Middlesex but his stats aren't fantastic.
44 wickets @ 29.72. So whilst taking wickets he's still going for too many runs.
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I like Steven Finn but I don't think he's ready for recall.
He's taken a lot of wickets Middlesex but his stats aren't fantastic.
44 wickets @ 29.72. So whilst taking wickets he's still going for too many runs.
I'd rather have a bowler in the side that takes wickets than another Bresnan holding up an end to be honest.
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I'd rather have a bowler in the side that takes wickets than another Bresnan holding up an end to be honest.
I didn't say Finn wasn't taking wickets.
Just going for too many runs. England's preference is to keep the opposition quiet.
Anyway I'd pick Stokes for Jordan.
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I like Steven Finn but I don't think he's ready for recall.
He's taken a lot of wickets Middlesex but his stats aren't fantastic.
44 wickets @ 29.72. So whilst taking wickets he's still going for too many runs.
Finn has been going at 4+ an over for quite a while at International level, but is a genuine wicket taker.
It is not whether he is ready, it is whether he is the best option for the role they want him to do.
Are there any others who bowl with his pace and bounce that would be a better option?
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I didn't say Finn wasn't taking wickets.
Just going for too many runs. England's preference is to keep the opposition quiet.
Anyway I'd pick Stokes for Jordan.
I didn't say you did. I said I would rather have Finn in leaking runs and taking wickets than the likes of Bresnan holding up an end and not taking many.
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Yes Finn has often gone at 4 an over, and I think it was probably leaking runs that got him dropped in the first place
but he is a wicket taker...getting thru the Indian batting is hard work unless there is a lot in the track
yes we did it last match and Ali bowled very well last innings,but we need a strike bowler
and besides,there are not many strike bowlers who dont give away runs in the search for wickets playing now. i suppose Steyn would be at the top of the tree,and a fine bowler he is too
Apart from Finn, I could'nt name another genuine quick bowler England could pick now Plunkett is injured...
Amjal Shazad? hmmmm....no. :)
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I am delighted to see Finn back selected as mentioned there is concern over drying up runs - if you have Anderson (overbowled this summer) Broad (knackered knees), Finn and Moeen as the bowlers - it guarantees that Woakes will play as he is a dot ball bowler and Cook needs to have that option.
I am not sure what is going on with Mike Selvey (guardian cricket correspondent) at the moment - but his continued defence of the England structure is a very one sided view - not saying it is wrong - just feels odd. When you read http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/aug/03/steven-finn-injured-liam-plunkett-england (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/aug/03/steven-finn-injured-liam-plunkett-england) it suggests that it wasn't the Eng bowling camp who ruined him - but that is against the common view.
regardless, in my view, Finn is a class bowler with genuine pace and is a better bowler than Jordan, Plunkett and Stokes. Once again the Eng set up has damaged talented young players (Stokes and Jordan) and let's hope they recover quickly.
Of the squad - my team would be
Cook
Robson (I would still be picking Hales opening the batting, I know, I know or Vince)
Ballance
Bell
Root
Ali
Butler
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
Finn (although I expect Jordan to play and not Finn)
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If Hales can keep up his form I think he has a real good chance next year if Robson keeps going like he is. Vince isn't an opener (at least for test cricket) but he deserves a place in a limited overs squad sometime soon now he's hopefully regained his form.
In terms of the test I'd go for the team above, can see Jordan or Stokes getting another go instead though.
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I am delighted to see Finn back selected as mentioned there is concern over drying up runs - if you have Anderson (overbowled this summer) Broad (knackered knees), Finn and Moeen as the bowlers - it guarantees that Woakes will play as he is a dot ball bowler and Cook needs to have that option.
I am not sure what is going on with Mike Selvey (guardian cricket correspondent) at the moment - but his continued defence of the England structure is a very one sided view - not saying it is wrong - just feels odd. When you read [url]http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/aug/03/steven-finn-injured-liam-plunkett-england[/url] ([url]http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/aug/03/steven-finn-injured-liam-plunkett-england[/url]) it suggests that it wasn't the Eng bowling camp who ruined him - but that is against the common view.
regardless, in my view, Finn is a class bowler with genuine pace and is a better bowler than Jordan, Plunkett and Stokes. Once again the Eng set up has damaged talented young players (Stokes and Jordan) and let's hope they recover quickly.
Of the squad - my team would be
Cook
Robson (I would still be picking Hales opening the batting, I know, I know or Vince)
Ballance
Bell
Root
Ali
Butler
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
Finn (although I expect Jordan to play and not Finn)
Not sure how you could put the Watford Wall below the Burnley Lara in the batting order!
If Old Trafford is hard and quick then Finn over Jordan. Not even sure why Jordan would be considered after the last test.
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If Old Trafford is hard and quick then Finn over Jordan. Not even sure why Jordan would be considered after the last test.
Bob Willis did a pretty good review of Jordan's bowling on the verdict, seems how he holds the ball and his wrist is all wrong. Something you can get away with in a one dayer but not a test. He needs to go back to county cricket and work on these before he is ready for test cricket.
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Bob Willis did a pretty good review of Jordan's bowling on the verdict, seems how he holds the ball and his wrist is all wrong. Something you can get away with in a one dayer but not a test. He needs to go back to county cricket and work on these before he is ready for test cricket.
How has he made it to test level then?!
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From what I've seen of Finny in the last few weeks he is bowling to the same sort of level as he was when he was running in at 90 in the India ODIs a couple of years back.
He is never going to be a dot ball bowler but Woakes will fill the old Bresnan role and Finn will take the slot Plunkett had been rested for in place of Jordan, who needs overs in the Championship. I do think his stats are a bit deceptive - when I've seen him he has conceded runs, but rarely from awful bowling - examples:
At Scarborough, we conceded five fours in a spell at Lyth and Lees - but two were bouncers gloved down the leg side, one a drive skewed through third slip and another a dangerous bouncer than Peanut played beautifully.
At Lords in the RLC vs Surrey Dilshan took him for a few - but most were over the keepers head or off edges.
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I thought the ruling was fair given the lack of evidence, and no unbiased witnesses.
However the BCCI has cleverly worded that they would like the ICC to appeal the decision (given they are not aloud to appeal it themselves).
Personally think they're trying mind games to unsettle Anderson, or are they pushing their weight around to try get him banned?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2014/content/current/story/767091.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2014/content/current/story/767091.html)
This whole thing has been ridiculous and pushed out of proportion. Some words out of order were said by Jimmy, he pushed Jadeja but not enough for him to fall over (only did it come out in the trial that Jadeja had to take a step to balance himself, not put in his original testimony which looked bad on BCCI Lawyers).
Was Jadeja hurt? No. Could he play the next test? Yes, he did.
Take Jimmy Cook and Moores, Jadeja Dhoni and FLower into a room, tell them it ends here, shake hands pretend to make up and then go back to talking with your cricket!
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This Anderson vs Jadeja thing is getting ridiculous now...
If they can't agree with the decision.
Strap the gloves on and having a boxing match...the loser gets banned...
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On Cricket Writers all of the members said how they think it's the Indian team trying to pursue a vendetta after Anderson has been sledging the players
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no - it isn't about Anderson at all.
It is about ensuring the Aussies can't abuse the Indian team like they did the Eng team last winter.
My view is that if you start winning the abuse tends to stop... In the winter we weren't even close to good enough, so the abuse continued. Compare that to when we were winning in the previous three ashes series...
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The Indians definitely don't like it though! So I think they better get ready for OZ
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This Anderson vs Jadeja thing is getting ridiculous now...
If they can't agree with the decision.
Strap the gloves on and having a boxing match...the loser gets banned...
To quote GoT..... "Trial by combat.... Let the Gods decide!"
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no - it isn't about Anderson at all.
It is about ensuring the Aussies can't abuse the Indian team like they did the Eng team last winter.
My view is that if you start winning the abuse tends to stop... In the winter we weren't even close to good enough, so the abuse continued. Compare that to when we were winning in the previous three ashes series...
I doubt that Buzz...its not the verbal part that Indians complained here...Anderson can be a real (No Swearing Please) sometimes...
No wonder he got stick in Oz...
I think it was always tactical against Anderson...leader of the attack...if only they could get rid of him...
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Pretty straightforward way to kick it into touch - DRS. All England have to do with refuse to play India until it's implemented and they will soon pipe down. Whatever India think they are, they also know losing a big home series and the tv rights money will hurt them more than England. India draw crowds in England but NZ and Sri Lanka would provide equally strong oppo and most of the ECB money comes from Sky, not gate receipts.
I think it's done and dusted and digging it all up again is desperation.
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Pretty straightforward way to kick it into touch - DRS. All England have to do with refuse to play India until it's implemented and they will soon pipe down. Whatever India think they are, they also know losing a big home series and the tv rights money will hurt them more than England. India draw crowds in England but NZ and Sri Lanka would provide equally strong oppo and most of the ECB money comes from Sky, not gate receipts.
I think it's done and dusted and digging it all up again is desperation.
India not playing England won't hurt their balance sheet very much at all...
85% of the ICCs revenue comes via India.
India could never play another Test match and they'd still rake in millions by way of IPL and limited overs cricket.
It's not like India sell grounds out at home for Test cricket either.
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Seems like England are weighing up whom will be the 4rd seam bowler Finn/Stokes/Jordan.
Whereas India are set to do a lucky dip...
R Ashwin and Varun Aaron will play. Dhawan/Rohit and Pankaj will make way.
Poor old Pankaj, only the man above can explain why Shami isn't the one being axed...
If Dhawan gets the chop, Pujara will open. According to media speculation.
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Anyone going to the first day tomorrow?
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Really hope we go with Finn, Jordan or Stokes just haven't looked that potent to be honest recently in comparison.
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Yeah I want to see Finn too. He was great when he first broke onto the scene, wasn't he the youngest to take 50 test wickets until Mohammed amir?
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No Finn today :o really disappointed he isn't playing.
no changes in the Eng team
A few changes to the indian team - three changes for India
india win the toss and bat.
Pankaj Singh is playing though!!!
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I had hoped we'd see Finn in for Jordan too.
We'll see how it works out...
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ghambir gone already,early wicket for us
England may be trying to get F
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ooops
may be trying to get Finn integrated back around the team...
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Wow :o!
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3 down... Oh my
Gerry might be choking on his raw zebra currently
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Did anyone else raise an eyebrow when Dhoni said he wanted to bat first? It's cloudy as hell and just stopped raining. Now it's swinging round corners and jagging about all over the place. India are three down as a result.
Jimmy's average is 29.93. World class.
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Another gone. Are India even trying ??
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World class don't make me laugh.
Green top king. No more.
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World class don't make me laugh.
Green top king. No more.
Nibble nibble
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good toss to loose... 8 for four now... Caught Cook Bowled Anderson now 24 times in tests another record for Clubbie Anderson...
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Another point of note is it's over 6 now :0
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I don't know.... What are India doing? Broad and Clubbie are both bowling very well.
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I just hope it doesn't get to their heads and makes the bowl short, the full line is obviously working
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Clubbie has now bowled more overs in test cricket for England than anyone else...
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I have to agree with Gerry, averages 10 more away from home, very good in England, average away.
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People are way too touchy. Just admire him for the talent that he has which (I highly doubt) none of us on here have. People keep repeating themselves far too much!
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India all out 152.
Broad 6/25
Clubman 3/46
Clubman gets his average down to 29.97... Still a clubman.
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Broad up to 261 poles now. Including 12 x 5 wicket bags.
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England have gone from no world class bowlers to nearly having 2 in one morning ;).
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In England, Broad is defined as an All Rounder.... His batting average is better than his bowling average!
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if you use Sir Geoff as a yardstick....nowt as good as in my day, play that bowling with a stick of rhubarb... yawn ...you get the picture :)
he reckons Anderson is our best bowler since Botham
yes...far more effective in home conditions when it swings about, tends to go just straight when there is nothing in it for him
but I personally think we have the two best opening bowlers for a long long time, and ive been following England since about 1979.
most bowlers have home conditions in their favour,quick tracks in SA, slow turners in the UAE for Ajmal,pace and bounce for Johnson etc in OZ.
Steyn would be the best quick because he has taken wickets all over the place but he is at the very top,Wasim and Waqar did the same years back.
Anderson and Broad would be world class at the moment, go back to the great bowlers in the 80's then yes...they would fall short.
But there are not the number of quality seamers around now. :)
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Clubman gets his average down to 29.97... Still a clubman.
So by your own magic world class figure of sub 30, Jimmy is now a world class clubbie with approaching 400 test poles.
Whatever it is you smoke can I have some?? Seems like good sh!t
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Bowlers go for more runs nowadays, which makes Steyn's figures even more remarkable. However, Steyn doesn't have a monopoly on being deemed a worldy. He probably would in most eras and is a once in a generation bowler.
But that doesn't mean Anderson isn't world class. He's not in Steyn's class, but is top 3 - if that's not world class, by definition I don't know what is. You don't fluke 370+ test wickets, with the biggest workload of any bowler in world cricket. PLus he's sent Tendulkar back to the hutch more times than any other bowler ;)
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Bowlers go for more runs nowadays, which makes Steyn's figures even more remarkable. However, Steyn doesn't have a monopoly on being deemed a worldy. He probably would in most eras and is a once in a generation bowler.
But that doesn't mean Anderson isn't world class. He's not in Steyn's class, but is top 3 - if that's not world class, by definition I don't know what is. You don't fluke 370+ test wickets, with the biggest workload of any bowler in world cricket. PLus he's sent Tendulkar back to the hutch more times than any other bowler ;)
Does that make Jimmy the worlds best clubbie then?? ;)
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It's funny how you English guys maintain mediocrity as being world class.
Aside from the usual suspects Steyn, Harris, Philander and Johnson
There are plenty of bowlers with averages less than 30 currently playing.
Tim Southee
Trent Boult
Kemar Roach
Junaid Khan
Steven Finn
James Pattinson
Roach and Khan, in particular play on pretty docile pitches.
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Bowlers go for more runs nowadays, which makes Steyn's figures even more remarkable. However, Steyn doesn't have a monopoly on being deemed a worldy. He probably would in most eras and is a once in a generation bowler.
But that doesn't mean Anderson isn't world class. He's not in Steyn's class, but is top 3 - if that's not world class, by definition I don't know what is. You don't fluke 370+ test wickets, with the biggest workload of any bowler in world cricket. PLus he's sent Tendulkar back to the hutch more times than any other bowler ;)
Top 3? Who you kidding?
Steyn
Harris
Johnson
Philander
That's the elite group.
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It's funny how you English guys maintain mediocrity as being world class.
Aside from the usual suspects Steyn, Harris, Philander and Johnson
There are plenty of bowlers with averages less than 30 currently playing.
Tim Southee
Trent Boult
Kemar Roach
Junaid Khan
Steven Finn
Roach and Khan, in particular play on pretty docile pitches.
No Gerry, we're taking the piss out of you by keep quoting your figure of sub 30 making someone world class mate! :D
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We weren't the ones who claimed he would be world class :o.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.....
I think my exact words where 'no bowler with an average above 30 can be deemed works class'
Anderson might average 29.97, but he's along way short of world class.
Similar to Tim Southee, fine young bowler, but some way to go until he's world class.
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Love watching Anderson. He's world class that kid.
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Can I ask you Gerry, if you were picking the England team what would it look like :)?
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Love watching Anderson. He's world class that kid.
James Anderson is as world class as Wayne Rooney eg not very world class.
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Can I ask you Gerry, if you were picking the England team what would it look like :)?
Carberry(poor lad should never been chopped)
Cook
Bell
Root
Ballance
Buttler
Stokes
Broad
Finn
Clubman
Panesar
If Carberry isn't deemed good enough. Id pick Lyth. Very good player.
Panesar is the best spinner in England. I don't care what's he's going of the field.
Ali is average.
Stokes is a potential worldie.
Finn is the most talented bowler in England.
Jordan and Woakes aren't good enough.
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Carberry(poor lad should never been chopped)
Cook
Bell
Root
Ballance
Buttler
Stokes
Broad
Finn
Clubman
Panesar
If Carberry isn't deemed good enough. Id pick Lyth. Very good player.
Panesar is the best spinner in England. I don't care what's he's going of the field.
Ali is average.
Stokes is a potential worldie.
Finn is the most talented bowler in England.
Jordan and Woakes aren't good enough.
Bell at 3 & Ballance at 5?? ???
Ballance 3, Bell 4, Root 5 IMO
Stokes has to be in the side, brightest prospect in English cricket, so Jordan to go.
Not sure about Monty in the side any more, maybe a Rashid/Borthwick player who can bat a bit.
Finn, Jimmy & Monty is a long tail!
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Bell at 3 & Ballance at 5?? ???
Ballance 3, Bell 4, Root 5 IMO
Stokes has to be in the side, brightest prospect in English cricket, so Jordan to go.
Not sure about Monty in the side any more, maybe a Rashid/Borthwick player who can bat a bit.
Ballance bats 5/6 for Yorkshire...
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Ballance bats 5/6 for Yorkshire...
He's batted very well at 3 for England though, and Bell hasn't really come good batting at 3.
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Bell at 3 & Ballance at 5?? ???
Ballance 3, Bell 4, Root 5 IMO
Stokes has to be in the side, brightest prospect in English cricket, so Jordan to go.
Not sure about Monty in the side any more, maybe a Rashid/Borthwick player who can bat a bit.
Monty has 150+ Test poles. Man can bowl.
Ballance isn't a #3, he's feasted on these weak attacks SL and India have served up. He will be exposed by Southee, Boult, Johnson & co next year.
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He's batted very well at 3 for England though, and Bell hasn't really come good batting at 3.
Michael Clarke doesn't like batting at #4, but sometimes you've gotta be a man and take one for the team.
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Well England have won the test already. No way this is going to 5 days so two spinners is pointless and without Ishant and an injured Kumar no way are 20 wickets going to get taken. Some of these Indian batsmen need to get their head out their arses after the Lords win. It's almost like they've since forgotten how to bat on far less demanding wickets.
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Stokes just hasn't looked as good as he has done recently to me, and Woakes has looked quite good in the bowling department. I'd have him in at the moment. Robson hasn't had the best of starts to his career bar his 100 and I can see him being dropped off very soon, not a clue who would come in though in the test format, there's more than enough options in limited overs, perhaps even Hales?
I personally still think Ali is still the best option we have for a spinner at the moment, Monty, or any other spinner, are not currently doing that much to warrant themself a selection and Montys off field behavior has not helped him in any way.
Bell just doesn't seem perform at 3, I still think either Ballance or Ali there at the moment is the best option.
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IMO at test level Woakes at his pace needs to do more with the ball.
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I do not know Gerrie from a bar of soap but he does approach the sport with solid intent which I do admire.
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Stats stolen from a buzz retweet.
Gerry as for your statement clubbie is a green top bully.
Why don't you tell me his Average in India, and that of Shane Warne the greatest spin bowler ever.
India conditions are much more suited to spin so the clubbie hasn't a chance surely?!!....
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And as for this one going five days, Friday and Sunday are likely to get loads of rain, and Monday thunderstorms the...
Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk
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Stats stolen from a buzz retweet.
Gerry as for your statement clubbie is a green top bully.
Why don't you tell me his Average in India, and that of Shane Warne the greatest spin bowler ever.
India conditions are much more suited to spin so the clubbie hasn't a chance surely?!!....
Shane Warne might be 'the greatest spinner ever' but Tendulkar, Laxman and Dravid where pretty handy...
Anderson averages 29 in India? Hardly the stats of a world beater. And that most due to a one off Test effort in 2008, where he took 6 wickets in Mumbai.
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Well England have won the test already. No way this is going to 5 days so two spinners is pointless and without Ishant and an injured Kumar no way are 20 wickets going to get taken. Some of these Indian batsmen need to get their head out their arses after the Lords win. It's almost like they've since forgotten how to bat on far less demanding wickets.
Whatever happened to Umesh Yadav? This lad Aaron is quick, but iirc Yadav was even faster.
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Love coming onto this thread every time Jimmy takes a few wickets, watching Gerry try and find every reason under the sun to not admit that Jimmy is world class...
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Whatever happened to Umesh Yadav? This lad Aaron is quick, but iirc Yadav was even faster.
I think he picked up a serious back injury. a bit like that colured South African kid a few years ago - serious pace, but the back couldn't sustain it!
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Shane Warne might be 'the greatest spinner ever' but Tendulkar, Laxman and Dravid where pretty handy...
Anderson averages 29 in India? Hardly the stats of a world beater. And that most due to a one off Test effort in 2008, where he took 6 wickets in Mumbai.
Tendulkar = Anderson's rabbit
so Jimmy must be a great bowler
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It ok Gerry I think I might have got it wrong about Root.
We all do sometimes
Now that Burnley when conditions are right sure can bowl
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Tendulkar = Anderson's rabbit
so Jimmy must be a great bowler
You mean the clubman dipped his bread against a passed his peak Tendulkar?
Sri Lankan maestro Muttiah Muralitharan got peak Tendulkar out 8 times. Far more impressive.
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You mean the clubman dipped his bread against a passed his peak Tendulkar?
Sri Lankan maestro Muttiah Muralitharan got peak Tendulkar out 8 times. Far more impressive.
Tendulkar past his peak in 2006, nobody told me :o
http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-england-2012/content/story/597131.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-england-2012/content/story/597131.html)
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Tendulkar past his peak in 2006, nobody told me :o
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-england-2012/content/story/597131.html[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-england-2012/content/story/597131.html[/url])
And the other 8 times...
Yeah as I said Tendulkar was passed it...
If you want to see Tendulkar getting dominated look no further than Australia's Glenn McGrath.
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Guys - Gerry has it in his head that Jimmy is a very ordinary bowler.
There is nothing anyone can do to change that opinion! When Jimmy bowls with incredible control, swinging it both ways, and bowling unplayable balls, it will be the conditions or the statistics of the number of balls that left the factory that day!
And when he doesn't take wickets then statistics prove he's a clubman!
What I'm saying is that everyone has their opinion and Gerry isn't going to change his!
So rather than keep making remarks, just accept that we all have our opinion!
And this goes both ways! If someone wants to say that jimmy is World class, the Gerry needs to politely disagree but realise that everyone has their opinion and is entitled to it!!
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What happend to Brett Shultz a star in the making then bosh ??
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And that most due to a one off Test effort in 2008, where he took 6 wickets in Mumbai.
you can't just pick and choose stats that suit you!!!!
Otherwise you would only look at Andersons stats from 2008 to 2014 - during which time he has 312 wickets at 28.1
As we are playing select the stats - during the time we have seen the biggest improvements in bats - i.e. from around 2008 to the current day and the proliferation of dead flat lifeless tracks...
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac151/buzzrockport/Untitled_zpse8175505.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/buzzrockport/media/Untitled_zpse8175505.jpg.html)
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you can't just pick and choose stats that suit you!!!!
Otherwise you would only look at Andersons stats from 2008 to 2014 - during which time he has 312 wickets at 28.1
As we are playing select the stats - during the time we have seen the biggest improvements in bats - i.e. from around 2008 to the current day and the proliferation of dead flat lifeless tracks...
([url]http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac151/buzzrockport/Untitled_zpse8175505.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s895.photobucket.com/user/buzzrockport/media/Untitled_zpse8175505.jpg.html[/url])
You mean Anderson average was boosted by the tainted Pakistan series? Where they were match fixing?
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The master of cheap freebie runs, Ian Bell, falls to the ever willing Bhuvneshwar Kumar. Kumar also nabbed Chris Jordan, albeit Jordan was out to a stunning catch.
140/5.
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Oh Ian!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is why people on here moan about you doing half a job! another pretty score without going on. Tut!
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That was a very good delivery though from Kumar. Give credit to the bowler for that!
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Moeen Ali cleaned up by V Aaron.
170/6.
Lead of 18
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Moeen isn't Test quality.
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I have to say - as much as I love the guy, I am coming to that conclusion too with Moeen. He's not getting any runs, and he does seem to be getting out to the short ball a lot.
Sure his spinning is what everyone is talking about - but ultimately he his supposed to be a batter who gets a few wickets.
Dependant on how this test goes, it may be time to look at swapping Stokes for Ali and seeing if he can get a few runs second time around, and putting in a proper spinner for Woakes / Jordan.
That proper spinner could be any of Kerrigan / Tredders / Batty / Riley.
we've got to give ourselves the best chance to win the series.
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Moeen isn't Test quality.
That 100 he got however did look absolutely class in my opinion, independent of the situation it was in. I think he deserves the final test minimum personally. My personal belief is any spinner we bring into the side wont get many/any more wickets than him anyway so he's worth keeping in for now.
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That 100 he got however did look absolutely class in my opinion, independent of the situation it was in. I think he deserves the final test minimum personally. My personal belief is any spinner we bring into the side wont get many/any more wickets than him anyway so he's worth keeping in for now.
But your opinion is not worthy! Gerry has the only opinion worthy of a mention! >:(
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Stick with Ali until the end of the summer Test schedule. Give County spinners the rest of the season to get overs under their belt, re-evaluate the situation and get a couple involved with the set up and ready for next year. Kerrigan and Riley most probably? Would love Rashid to get a chance, strictly down to enjoying watching leggies bowl.. and he can hold a bat.
Not saying Ali is to be kicked out after this summer though! He hasn't been that bad!!!
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Shane Warne might be 'the greatest spinner ever' but Tendulkar, Laxman and Dravid where pretty handy...
Anderson averages 29 in India? Hardly the stats of a world beater. And that most due to a one off Test effort in 2008, where he took 6 wickets in Mumbai.
But 29 is below the world class line of 30?!?
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Any spinner looking to make an impact should hopefully be looking to do so at the start of the coming final block off CC games with the pitches slowly beginning to aid spin more than the start of the season.
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So Warne is okay to have a poor average in India as dravid Tendulkar and laxman where "handy"
Correct me but I'm pretty sure Anderson bowled at them 3 too while in India alot??
Yet 29 for him is poor there?
What tosh you speak.
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Can someone rename this thread? I know Gary is pushing it a bit but 90% of the posts are by ppl defending Anderson. Not just that it's a repetitive it's annoying at this point. Gary is just trolling this thread...don't feed the troll, it's killing the thread.
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From reading this thread you'd think there wasn't a test match going on :D
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With the match finely poised, England 85 ahead and the rain lashing down, where do we think this game is going?
I don't think we're going to see another 3.5 days play. I think at best it will be 2 days. Can England win it from here? Batting is clearly more challenging than it's been at some other grounds, but not as bad as India made it look. Who's ahead right now?
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With the match finely poised, England 85 ahead and the rain lashing down, where do we think this game is going?
I don't think we're going to see another 3.5 days play. I think at best it will be 2 days. Can England win it from here? Batting is clearly more challenging than it's been at some other grounds, but not as bad as India made it look. Who's ahead right now?
You said it yourself Tim, England are 85 ahead ;)
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Given how much it has been hooping around, England need another session to get 150-200 lead and another 2 to knock India over. I think overhead conditions will determine how well India do second time around. Can't see this last more than another full day of play if it stays overcast.
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England light years ahead. If the result is anything but an England win then they should be very disappointed.
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just seen the highlights
I thought Moeen got a Jaffa of a ball.
regardless, none of Root, Ali, Robson, Jordan and others have a clue against the short ball.
that doesn't bode well for next year against Aus, Pak or SA all who have better quicks than India.
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You mean Anderson average was boosted by the tainted Pakistan series? Where they were match fixing?
I wouldn't boast too much, sa aren't clean from the rigging side of things so pot kettle black springs to mind
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regardless, none of Root, Ali, Robson, Jordan and others have a clue against the short ball.
Bit harsh on Root, who has always played it well enough. The other three....
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Playing the short ball is easy if you can play.
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Roooooooooooot!
Think it's safe to say he's found his place in the side, let's hope he stays in the middle order for the foreseeable future so he can develop as a test cricketer.
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Well the Aditek didn't work real well for Broad
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Well the Aditek didn't work real well for Broad
And there's a very interesting question just arisen... How did that happen?
I'm sure Tom will be able to let us know once all the details are known...
Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk
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Time for new helmet Mr. Broad
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We've been trying to work out how that happened. We haven't been able to squeeze the ball through the gap, so it must have been really travelling or something was broken.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/09/ajuhy6e7.jpg)
Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk
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It seemed to go through quite easily without much resistance for some reason
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(http://i57.tinypic.com/35bv3up.png)
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I notice he doesn't use the "pump up" version... Can't remember what it's called.. Sorry Tom
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It looks like it was the plastic version, which always struck me as strange why he wouldn't have one of the carbon fibre versions.
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We've been trying to work out how that happened. We haven't been able to squeeze the ball through the gap, so it must have been really travelling or something was broken.
([url]http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/09/ajuhy6e7.jpg[/url])
Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk
On the other thread in the Ayrtek sponsor section there is a link to the footage on the Metro news website. It's playing a continuous slow-mo loop of the hit and as the ball makes contact with the helmet something comes off at pace. Could that be the cause? Of course the only way to know is to have a good look at Broad's helmet - which I'm sure they'll be doing as we type. Probably needs nipping in the bud sooner rather than later as conjecture and theoretical discussions can cause more damage to a brand's reputation than the actual incident.
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Well, looks like Broad isn't being missed at the moment.
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"Anderson to Kohli in this series, he has bowled 30 balls to him, Kohli has scored seven runs off him and been out four times."
Also, Moeens test average is now below 30. England have a world class spinner again!!!
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Moeen Ali is a pie chucker at best.
He's not earned a single wicket. More so the Indians have given him their wickets with glee.
He'll be humilated by Australia next summer and South Africa winter after next.
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Moeen Ali is a pie chucker at best.
He's not earned a single wicket. More so the Indians have given him their wickets with glee.
He'll be humilated by Australia next summer and South Africa winter after next.
Nibble nibble nibble.
Can't wait for the excuse you come up with when Moeen has Amla and De Villers back in the hutch
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Nibble nibble nibble.
Can't wait for the excuse you come up with when Moeen has Amla and De Villers back in the hutch
Same Amla who took Swann to the cleans in the series in England in 2011?
Keep dreaming...
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Same Amla who took Swann to the cleans in the series in England in 2011?
Keep dreaming...
The same Amla that got humiliated by getting out to less-than-part-time Kevin Pietersen in 2012.
:-)
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The same Amla that got humiliated by getting out to less-than-part-time Kevin Pietersen in 2012.
:-)
Durban lads sticking together...
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England won by a innings that's all there is to say well done lads ......
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Bit harsh on Root, who has always played it well enough. The other three....
not harsh on root, sorry, he gets hit on the head more than any top order player I have seen is a compulsive hooker... and gets into poor positions.
he is still a fine talented player who will do very well, but he needs to sort it out.
not as badly a moeen however...
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Moeen is indeed a 'standing duck' at times.
I hope the coaching staff recognise this and work with him, Robson, Jordan and Stokes on their deficiencies before the West Indies.
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Playing the short ball is easy if you can play.
Playing the short ball is easy if you can play.....the short ball??
Not everyone can play all shots! Batsmen usually have 2 or 3 strong shots!
The issue is that the hook shot send to be a weak shot for most if the English team!
Therefore the obvious 'duck' or 'sway' should have been used!
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not harsh on root, sorry, he gets hit on the head more than any top order player I have seen is a compulsive hooker... and gets into poor positions.
Not sure that the head thing is that relevant since a lot of players now seem not to care about this (and anyway, Michael Clarke is clearly the most lidded man in international cricket). As for his positions, he does seem to get out of shape to the bouncer bowled from wide around th wicket but so do most players - its something that has only recently come back in to the international game after a long period being ignored as a tactic.
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Watching cricket writers on tv this morning, it seems they all think robson will be replaced after this series, and it will be hales or Vince that get the gigg. Which could be interesting.
I personally like the idea of an attacking England.
As much as I like traditional test cricket, watching Warner take it to steyn and morkel in the last test series between the too, was a good watch! But never thought England would pick such players.
As for current side, win in 3 days? Does that mean cook will still be captain for atleast another year? And therefore the 2015 ashes?
Personally believe it has been down to how bad India have played to how well England/cook has improved.
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Vince isn't an opener is he? Who will open?
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Vince isn't an opener is he? Who will open?
Vince isn't an opener
Hales doesn't have the temperament
Can only assume Root will open - but if that happened, why not bring in Eion Morgan?
England's philosophy should be to stick with players and develop. Worked for the Aussies after the 'legends' team retired. Robson, if he is considered the future, should continue to be in there. You'd not want to throw another 'to the wolves' just for the sake of it.
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Vince is a middle order player, Hales should be given a chance in all formats IMO.
Root has cemented his place in the middle order, having not batted well as an opener (minus Lord's vs Australia) or at number 3.
Feel for Morgan in a way, apparenty he was told he was next in line once KP was sacked, then the coach changes and he's not got near the side.
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What I am wary about, ref selection/selectors is going back to the bad old days. By that I mean giving some players a wealth of opportunities whilst discarding others in a cavalier fashion after very few games. It always looked to me as if the selectors were willing some players to succeed whilst willing others to fail.
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No one thought Warner would become a test player, if Hales is in form he should get a crack.
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Would definitely be sticking with Robson
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I disagree slightly as regards Root - I thought he looked okay at the top of the order before being moved to accommodate Carberry, but he definitely looks a better bet at five and, if he is ordained as the next skipper as many believe, then he is going to find that job a lot easier for not having to bat in the top three as well.
Will Robson go? Not sure - it's a tricky call because we only have five tests after this series before the next Ashes. He doesn't quite convince, but has done okay at times and should improve for experience. Vince will not open in tests and Hales, for all he has done well, would be more likely to be blooded down the order. Lyth is probably next cab off the rank, but one wonders whether his cards are already marked...
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Vince is a middle order player, Hales should be given a chance in all formats IMO.
Root has cemented his place in the middle order, having not batted well as an opener (minus Lord's vs Australia) or at number 3.
Feel for Morgan in a way, apparenty he was told he was next in line once KP was sacked, then the coach changes and he's not got near the side.
Vince may well be a middle order player 4 day. But he opens short stuff.
Root is an opener, ballance a middle order player now at 3. England really dint care for positions. So u wouldn't be surprised if vince did open.
But personally I'd take hales.
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Adam Lyth for me, consistently scores runs and gets big scores too. A natural opener who has always been flirting with a call up when on form. Also a fantastic fielder.
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Vince may well be a middle order player 4 day. But he opens short stuff.
Root is an opener, ballance a middle order player now at 3. England really dint care for positions. So u wouldn't be surprised if vince did open.
But personally I'd take hales.
Root moving down the order makes perfect sense, as outlined above. Ballance I'm less concerned about than I was at the time because I've since learned that he had asked to bat up the order at Yorkshire numerous times and been rebuffed. But there is little precendent for a four/five bat being translated into an opener - and were it has happened its been a nugget guy like Katich who had always batted three for their state rather than a shotmaker like Vince.
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Its easy let Ali open and play Vince in the middle order.
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Its easy let Ali open and play Vince in the middle order.
Not the worst suggestion if they want to keep Ali playing.....although there needs to be some attention to the short ball if he will be opening!
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Only changes I'd want to see at the minute are stokes in for woakes and Finn in for Jordan. Robson can stay, he scored a ton and just needs to find his feet at international level.
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Only changes I'd want to see at the minute are stokes in for woakes and Finn in for Jordan. Robson can stay, he scored a ton and just needs to find his feet at international level.
Even just Stokes for Woakes would please me, Stokes is the brightest prospect in English cricket and will be a future superstar, Woakes isn't and won't!
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Woakes has bowled well, stokes has been awful in his last fee tests especially with the bat, he needs to go back to first class cricket and prove himself
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Woakes has bowled well, stokes has been awful in his last fee tests especially with the bat, he needs to go back to first class cricket and prove himself
Stokes has bowled well in his last few tests and batting will come with time, he's done well at county level which is why he was recalled.
Woakes isn't a wicket taking bowler whereas Stokes is, and you need 20 wickets to win a test match.
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After India's performance (or lack of) in the last 2 tests.. I am unable to find a place to hide under the chair!! :(
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Surefire way of getting Ali dropped is to open with him. Nothing I've seen about his batting suggests he will be able to handle an assault by Morkel, Steyn, Johnson or others.
I think he is another fella better suited to the middle order, test opening is a tricky position. I'd wheel in a decent, experienced county opener, stick with Robson or ask Bell if he will do the job.
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Surefire way of getting Ali dropped is to open with him. Nothing I've seen about his batting suggests he will be able to handle an assault by Morkel, Steyn, Johnson or others.
I think he is another fella better suited to the middle order, test opening is a tricky position. I'd wheel in a decent, experienced county opener, stick with Robson or ask Bell if he will do the job.
With you here Fattus, just got a guy in who is developing his spin nicely, can hold his own in the middle order, why open with him?!
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I also agree with Fattus. Ali is doing fine where he is. If he continues to develop the way he has been then he will be worth his weight in gold to England as a spinning all rounder allows them to select four seamers.
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It is better to agree with me, I am an evil fat genius!
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It is better to agree with me, I am an evil fat genius!
I'll give you the fat part. Not sure you are entirely evil or a genius.
To me - Ali has left the ball well outside off stump, hallmark of a good opener. He does appear to have a knack of getting out in stupid ways - hooking or not, driving at herath etc. Not seen anything to say his technique isn't good against the pitched up ball - the one at Old Trafford looked a snorter to me. His short ball technique needs work but he's not the worst option.
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Moeen should stay at 6 - there is no way he should be in the top 3 in my view. His fallibilities against the short ball make that impossible.
Hales is the man I tell you!!!
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Its easy let Ali open and play Vince in the middle order.
Move a non-opener in to open and bring a non-opener into the middle order... How is that any easier ???...
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I'll give you the fat part. Not sure you are entirely evil or a genius.
To me - Ali has left the ball well outside off stump, hallmark of a good opener. He does appear to have a knack of getting out in stupid ways - hooking or not, driving at herath etc. Not seen anything to say his technique isn't good against the pitched up ball - the one at Old Trafford looked a snorter to me. His short ball technique needs work but he's not the worst option.
I'll bet you a large pie, with the filling of your choice, that he would be crap as a test opener, and would get found out within 4 innings.
I like the guy, and I want him to succeed - but like Root, he is more of a benefit to England where he is.
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For the next test I'd simply have Finn in for Jordan and leave it at that.
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For the next test I'd simply have Finn in for Jordan and leave it at that.
And Stokes for Woakes! need a wicket taker IMO
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Stokes got a ton today!
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Stokes got a ton today!
Get him in for Jordan or Woakes, just get the lad in the side!!
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Stokes for Woakes and Finn for Jordan for me.
Cook
Robson
Ballance
Bell
Root
Moeen
Buttler
Stokes
Broad
Anderson
Finn
That's how I'd go....
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When is the next test?
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Starts Friday.
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I don't think the oval pitch will be as slow as some of the pundits are saying. It has quickned up massively this year as Surrey have been playing a battery of Fast bowlers in the main (Dunn, Curran, Meaker, big Trem and Dirtbag)
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given how generous the Oval has been to the home team in recent years, I would expecting as hard and fast a green top as the grounds man can prepare
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I am hopeful of a typical 2014 oval pitch. The surrey pacemen have been loving it this season.
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Not too sure on the Stokes/Woakes situation. Woakes has looked good but just unlucky at times.
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It will be difficult to change a winning team.
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Finn not picked again!!! >:( ECB seem to have very short memories. Don't they remember that it was the constant picking Finn for the squad and then not playing him that got him to the point where he was mentally shot and un-selectable. This means again he's not playing cricket and keeping his rhythm going. If I was him I'd tell the ECB to stick it!
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Clubman gets a wicket first over
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Since the last Test Gambhir scored a Test hundred, 2009 in IND, he's gone 44 innings without a Test hundred. In those 44 innings he's scored 1245 runs @ 28.95. Don't think he'll be around when the Windies tour India in October...
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gutted that finny hasn't been selected again.... Espescially when Woakes will bowl his pies
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this is a good set of stats...
Heartbeat of the team
Anderson has been a reliable barometer of England’s health. He has played in 44 Test wins, in which he has claimed an impressive 207 wickets at 22.63 apiece. But in 29 defeats, his figures are considerably worse: 74 wickets at 46.09 each.
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My Pujara what has happened ...
Think i bet the wrong horse...
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when JA overtakes Botham in the list he will, without question or debate, be the best clubbie to play for England ever
:) :) :)
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Oh dear kohli having a beast again
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To be fair it does sound like DRS wouldn't have saved Kholi! Umpires call....but the commentators seemed to indicate that it was a surprise when he gave out!
Good start by England.
But have always thought that Rahane will come good.
Like others, I would have liked to have seen either Stokes or Finn given a chance. But can also understand that they are unwilling to make changes to a team that is finally winning! :(
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Hitting outside off, not playing a shot. Didn't look on TV that was coming back far enough but was clipping with 25% of ball hitting off stick.
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Good catch. Hard hands by the batsman.
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Chris Jordan has two wickets...I'd be ashamed if any South African got out to him.
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But have always thought that Rahane will come good.
Ahhh, errrmmm, ok! Maybe not in this innings! ???
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Chris Jordan has two wickets...I'd be ashamed if any South African got out to him.
Jordan reminds me of Vernon Philander, only better.
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Jordan reminds me of Vernon Philander, only better.
Beers gone to your head.
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Beers gone to your head.
Nope, you have proved that we are all entitled to own opinion, no matter how ridiculous it is.
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Chris Woakes reminds me of Allan Doanld
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Nope, you have proved that we are all entitled to own opinion, no matter how ridiculous it is.
Yeah your opinion of Jordan is also as ridiculous as Cook hailing the Clubman as 'the most skilful bowler in the world'
I really laughed into my breakfast reading that.
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Yeah your opinion of Jordan is also as ridiculous as Cook hailing the Clubman as 'the most skilful bowler in the world'
I really laughed into my breakfast reading that.
Common Gerry take a joke mate, I thought it was a really good attempt at humour :D
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Yeah your opinion of Jordan is also as ridiculous as Cook hailing the Clubman as 'the most skilful bowler in the world'
I really laughed into my breakfast reading that.
My opinion reflects comments prior.
To state that the WHOLE South African team would be ashamed to get out to him is equally, if not more, ridiculous.
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Woakes has upped his pace quite a bit think he looks a decent bowler always liked him but though he was limited think he is very decent indeed.
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Bowlers of Jordan's quality(or lack of quality) are 10 a penny in South Africa...
They struggle to get a game a provincial level...
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Woakes has upped his pace quite a bit think he looks a decent bowler always liked him but though he was limited think he is very decent indeed.
I agree you with he does remind me of Allan Donald...the 47 year old who's not bowled in years...
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Guys - why listen to him!! He is trying to get a rise and is talking from an area other than his mouth!
Some of his posts are verging on the ridiculous! And the odd one makes some sense! So just ignore some of the more pathetic posts he makes!
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It ok Pete I'm sat here enjoying England do well.
Impressed with England this morning very good what a turn around.
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I have 5 live sports on and enjoying the commentary.
Will watch the highlites later this evening.
Sounds like it was a good toss to win?
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So everyone wants to play India because they bring in the biggest crowds and have the most money etc. to the point where we bow to them not wanting to use DRS. What happens when India are so damn awful that matches are only lasting three days? Will anything change?
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I have 5 live sports on and enjoying the commentary.
Will watch the highlites later this evening.
Sounds like it was a good toss to win?
Ball is swinging, but pitch isn't doing much.
Ghambir was lucky to hit it (or unlucky).
A 50/50 leave.
Couple of bad shots.
England bowling good lines and lengths. Nothing amazing.
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I just love cricket no matter who but when England are doing well i feel good.
Will talk cricket with anybody as long as they don't have painted glasses.
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I just love cricket no matter who but when England are doing well i feel good.
Will talk cricket with anybody as long as they don't have painted glasses.
According to rankings, prior to this series, England are bang on average (100 points). Should climb above India and Pakistan after the series.
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India top order wants to go home desperately, I am a feeling India will loose this test too...
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Unbelievable stuff.... Indias Wheels are well and truly off
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Is it me or are the umpires having a shocker at the moment?
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Umpires had a Weston and robbed Rooooooot of his 150! >:(
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CLUBBIE time!!!!!
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And the Indian batsmen having to try and survive against Jimmy and Broad in these swinging conditions!
It would take an absolute miracle for India to get a win or a draw out of this!
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Anybody seen Bennie Hill
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Queue the music and the little fella being slapped on the head!
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Andrew Strauss with his version of rubbish commentary...
James 'clubman' Anderson doesn't take tailenders wickets, he targets the top order...
Aiming another dig at Steyn and Johnson.
Clubman can only bowl on greentops.
That's the truth Andrew Strauss...
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Gotta love Gerrys repetative, biased and completely antagonistic comments, this thread would never be the same without them but they are starting to get a bit boring now that its just same old, same old. Where are the innovative ridiculous ones going?
Can't wait for the SA series now, you've got me all hyped up!
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Gotta love Gerrys repetative, biased and completely antagonistic comments, this thread would never be the same without them but they are starting to get a bit boring now that its just same old, same old. Where are the innovative ridiculous ones going?
Can't wait for the SA series now, you've got me all hyped up!
Anderson will quit after another Ashes drubbing.
He's far too spineless to want to be exposed by South Africa again.
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So we have heard the negative sign of a poor man that any positives with England mate.
Mine is Root even i was his biggest critic he has silenced me and to be honest he can get even better and better no doubt about that.
Ballance has proven himself as a class act so far..
So what do people think i even think Woakes has put a yard on and looks decent..
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As I said: looks like the makings of a decent side.
Anyone know how Tymal Mills in doing in Essex 2s?
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Joe Root is a very average player and has proven himself to be a coward. An opener by trade. Exposed by the devastating Australian seam attack, and promptly decided he wanted to hide in the middle order.
He'll bt exposed by Johnson next summer.
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Andrew Strauss with his version of rubbish commentary...
James 'clubman' Anderson doesn't take tailenders wickets, he targets the top order...
Aiming another dig at Steyn and Johnson.
Clubman can only bowl on greentops.
That's the truth Andrew Strauss...
Absolutely right Gerry. Strauss has been reading this thread and decided that he would also go against your dribbling attempt at trolling. He stated that James Anderson targeted the top order. What a ridiculous comment by Strauss! Jimmy is an opening bowler and should waste the new ball come off early so that he can save his energy to bowl at the tail.
Strauss was also digging at Steyn and Johnson. Both SA and Aus are not involved in the test so he is deliberately going out of his way to get them into his conversation. You continually take threads off on a rather bizarre tangent so that people can come and join in a conversation as you are clearly very lonely living under that bridge.
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Joe Root is a very average player and has proven himself to be a coward. An opener by trade. Exposed by the devastating Australian seam attack, and promptly decided he wanted to hide in the middle order.
He'll bt exposed by Johnson next summer.
So what are the positives ???
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Joe Root is a very average player and has proven himself to be a coward. An opener by trade. Exposed by the devastating Australian seam attack, and promptly decided he wanted to hide in the middle order.
He'll bt exposed by Johnson next summer.
Just like Watson, Hughes, Cowan and Warner in the previous series? Any person who has opened before but 'hides' in the middle order is a coward... Really?
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So what are the positives ???
I guess we need stats to work out the positives........Joe Root is a world class T20 bowler because he averages 24
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Joe Root is a fantastic player. And he'll get better.
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Just like Watson, Hughes, Cowan and Warner in the previous series? Any person who has opened before but 'hides' in the middle order is a coward... Really?
Mickey Arthur picked the wrong squad and Lehmann had to adapt to what he was left with.
In the 2013/14 Ashes, Hughes and Cowan where gone.
Watson was moved down the order as his bowling was causing him injuries. And Watson is a career middle order player for Queensland, NSW and Tasmania
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Was due to go tomorrow, damn Indians and their fragile batting! Amazed in this day and age you have to send the tickets away for a refund by cheque that takes up to 30 days
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Joe Root is a fantastic player. And he'll get better.
Maybe against rubbish teams like India. He's a bunny against Australia or South Africa.
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Maybe against rubbish teams like India. He's a bunny against Australia or South Africa.
We'll see next summer.
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Gerry brown-nosing about SA and Aus again?
This is really starting to bore most of us, and certainly when forum members troll and become more annoying than entertaining, then we start to consider their future on the forum!
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There's only one way to settle this - says Harry Hill..... ;)
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Joe Root has suprised me big time and think of how good he could become I don't think he is finished improving.
Hands up thatan is going to be a fine player he is fine now but will no doubt get better
Everything went well in the end
Good days
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Joe Root has suprised me big time and think of how good he could become I don't think he is finished improving.
Didn't surprise me at all. Just saying.
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I think you can gauge sides by their fielding - when catches are sticking things start ticking.
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What an absolute farce this series turned out to be , turned out to be almost like one sided minnow bashing in the end , Ideally SL series should have had at least 3 matches which produced thrilling two test matches .
SL series was crying for one extra match while this was too long and boring.
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I think you can gauge sides by their fielding - when catches are sticking things start ticking.
And when you score more runs than the other side, you win. ;)
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What an absolute farce this series turned out to be , turned out to be almost like one sided minnow bashing in the end , Ideally SL series should have had at least 3 matches which produced thrilling two test matches
India a minnow? Ha ha!
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India a minnow? Ha ha!
Rich minnows.
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if it was a three match series it would have been one all...
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I don't like Joe Root. To me he comes off very arrogant, much like an Australian... ;).
However, he has batted very well this series and exactly what England needed. He still needs to show he can do it against a decent attack as he showed last summer that he was out of his depth. I hope he continues to get better for Englands sake.
I hope the England selectors don't tamper too much with Robson. Don't get into what NZ always does. Give a guy a go for a few tests, he fails and then throw him to the wolves. Robson must have been good enough to make the team initially, so back him up tell him he is the guy they want and let him feel part of the squad.
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there is an a/lions tour in January to, I think, SA.
it will be a Batoff between Robson, Hales and the other Yorkshire player (lythe?). Moeen and Taylor will also go.
it will be really interesting to see how they go.
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After seeing todays result, makes me think I could have made it
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I don't like Joe Root. To me he comes off very arrogant, much like an Australian... ;).
Intrigued to know when he has been arrogant?
No Gary Balance but Cook still in the squad. Bit of a joke really!
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Dhawan is wearing a Masuri Vision. Interesting.
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Say this on BBC live feed, Ben Stokes with the new blue stickers on one of his
B3 bats.
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb450/CPye061194/312CE7D2-615C-4CDA-A7D4-10EB80114807_zpsxi04pqzv.jpg) (http://s1206.photobucket.com/user/CPye061194/media/312CE7D2-615C-4CDA-A7D4-10EB80114807_zpsxi04pqzv.jpg.html)
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Kohli still in great form it seems! How long until he's out...
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Another bad innings for Kohli, such a class player but absolutely no form.
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Kohli is vastly overrated IMO. Flat track bully.
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Still can't believe Bopara doesn't get in this team let alone the squad.
Jordan looks like he could do so much more with his bowling if he had a proper run up.
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When Jordan first came into the squad I was dead against anyone changing his action as I thought that's what worked for him but the more and more I watch him I also believe it needs completing revamping. He could be 90mph+ every ball if someone sorted his run up out IMO.
I'm reckoning India will get up to 275 here. England's 'death' bowlers might as well just be swapped for a bowling machine and India have dangerous batsman.
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I may have been miles off here!
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Raina, great hundred but should of been given lbw to Tredwell. Drs would of completely changed the course of this game.
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Cook appears to have a good chance of another fine (not sure when bans kick in?). Time already gone with 4 overs left.
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Probably too many for England to get there. Need a few good innings. Hopefully it sets up for Buttler to come in and finish it off. Might be already lost by the time he gets in though...
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need to create a support group for DRS on facebook or twitter
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Good to see woakes in the wickets, should be good for the World Cup after the long run if ODI practice he will surely get.
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Been waiting patiently to watch hales bat, and now it rains. And gotta go out soon. Bet I miss this innings now. Doh
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Raina, great hundred but should of been given lbw to Tredwell. Drs would of completely changed the course of this game.
could have should have would have
DRS would have changed the course of many games not just this one.
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need to create a support group for DRS on facebook or twitter
please do so, it may stop DRS hijacking every other topic
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Well this is rubbish.
The new guy only one that's looked like scoring, and the old guard there to "occupy" have failed miserably.
Roy Vince's and Taylor needed!
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Change in support staff and supervision of Shastri seem to be working for India.
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My current world cup squad.
Hales
Bell
Morgan*
Taylor
Root
Buttler
Bopara
Woakes/Broad
Tredwell
Anderson
Finn/Broad
Ballance
Vince/Roy
Ali
Bairstow
Broad/Finn/Woakes
Gurney/Stokes
Jordan
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England absolutely rubbish. India haven't put a foot wrong but even so it's been a terrible batting effort.
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Cook and Moores are in total denial.
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Hales
Lumb
Wright
Bopara
Morgan
Butler
Woakes
Broad
Finn
Tredwell
Anderson
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That was a good laugh today.
Nick 'the moron' Knight "English can win the World Cup". Dream on pal.
On Australian/New Zealand pitches unless England select a fast bowler(eg Finn) their middle paced dobbers(Anderson, Woakes, Stokes and Jordan) will be like a charity attack.
Broad and Finn are vital for England just to not be embarrassed.
Buttler isn't a number 6. He's a slogger not a batsmen.
James Taylor should be in the side.
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My opinions :
-Thought Woakes looked quite good today, saw him for the first time live in white ball cricket at T20 finals day and he looked very good, impressed me considering my original impression was he was only suited to test cricket.
-Jordan could be so much more effective with a proper run up, I reckon he could get consistently bowling at/very near 90mph if it was reworked along with his grip as was pointed out on sky.
-Still think Bopara should be in the side, he's a class performer and I think his variations can easily make him work with Root to be the 5th bowlers.
-Stokes just seems a bit out touch with international cricket at the moment.
There's a lot of players who could/should be in the side right now I think Gerry, just a struggle to fit them all in. Disagree with you about Buttler however, Jordan is what I would call a slogger, Buttler's just naturally aggressive.
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Woakes did pretty well in the ODI's he played in Australia - I think he is going to be a decent player.
Currently I think that stokes is short of the form needed to play - and I think that Bell and Cook have shown what they can do - and what is needed is much more.
Swann and Vaughan are right - although I am not sure who is in the best team.
If you go on form, I would be picking...
Hales
Roy/Vince
Ballance
Taylor
Morgan
Bopara
Buttler
Woakes
Broad
Treadwell
Anderson
Finn
Then I realised there were 12 people in the team... and I haven't picked Vince either. Or Root. Or Jordan. Or Stokes and for me it is still a bowler short.
so the question is who gets dropped?? Ballance is the easy answer - however I think if you have two stroke makers up front means you need a safe pair of hands at 3 - I also am sure he has a 5th gear. Taylor could bat at 3 - but it is a big ask for him
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Morgan could come in at 3 I think, believe he does it for Middlesex in t20, not to sure about ODers. Of course the other option is Bopara as 5th bowler.
Edit : Or Bopara at 3
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There are very few players in the world who average 50 in List A cricket.
Gary Ballance and James Taylor both average 50+
Therefore both are pretty decent or they are flogging around some terrible bowling.
For me they must be half decent, therefore both merit selection.
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Career averages are hardly representative of whether someone should be selected here and now though are they...
They merit selection, its whether they can perform enough to warrant selection over already established players.
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I think the balance of this side is all wrong. Too many bits and pieces players to make either an effective batting unit or a bowling one.
Personally I would drop Woakes. I realise he just took a 4fa but I don't think he would get into the side for just his batting or his bowling. Jordan, again I would seriously consider dropping and sending off to sort out his issues. The potential is there but he isn't an international player yet.
For the balance of a one day side, you absolutely need to have a minimum of 3 full time bowlers. You need the majority of your overs to be bowled at <5 an over, and bits and pieces bowlers (your Roots, Ali's, Woakes, Stokes) are not more likely to achieve that ahead of Broad and Anderson. Finn is often expensive but he almost always takes wickets.
The nature of the batting order at the top with the exception of Hales all score at <80's, which contributes to England and their problem of getting bogged down in the middle overs. There needs to be more impetus at the top. Hales has shown all season at Notts that he likes time to get himself going and was perfectly complemented by Michael Lumb, who would often get a fast start allowing Hales time to bed in and go big.
My England side for the next ODI would be therefore:
Roy, who is a younger Lumb and could do the job for years.
Hales,
Cook (C),
Morgan,
Root,
Bopara,
Buttler,(+)
Stokes,
Tredwell,
Anderson,
Finn.
Even then there would be a lot of guys in that team fighting for their spot. I was really loathed to pick Tredwell, I think he is dump but there is literally no one else save Gareth Batty, could go with Moeen Ali I suppose. I picked Cook because I was being realistic. The ECB will not drop him unless he quits ODI's, though if they would I would bring in Ballance at three instead. Stokes needs to come up with the goods we saw in Australia sharpish and Morgan needs to prove to me that he is still good enough at this level. Bopara shouldn't have been dropped as he adds so much with bat and ball and the team should be built around Root as a rock at 5.
For the World Cup, I would like to see much the same:
Roy,
Hales,
Cook (C),
Morgan,
Root,
Bopara,
Buttler,(+)
Broad,
Tredwell,
Anderson,
Finn.
Perhaps I would look to get Ali in there ahead of Tredwell, but if they don't see how Ali gets on as a bowler in this series then there isn't much chance of him getting in as a main spinner.
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Still not entirely covinced Roy could do what he does in county cricket against international bowlers but I guess he's worth a go sometime.
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Cork makes a good point.
Why should bopara be in the England set up to bowl, if he doesn't bowl for Essex?
His batting didn't do much today either, Essex on for a beating,
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In all fairness though the England team doesn't usually have 8 available bowling options
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Why is Lumb not in your team? He's not too old.
What an embarrassment that Cook is in there. Bell is ok he's pretty solid on his day and can destroy an attack. I'm sure it has been said before but what is England up to? Teams would be shaking in their boots if Lumb and Hales walked out to bat. Get Butler up the order too. Hales, Lumb, Root, Morgan and Butler is a fantastic top 5. If Butler is a great finisher then he's got the good to be up there order. I used to hate when NZ had McCullum down at 6 or 7 to finish the game, what a waste.
I'm frustrated, so I can imagine what England supporters are feeling.
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Why is Lumb not in your team? He's not too old.
What an embarrassment that Cook is in there. Bell is ok he's pretty solid on his day and can destroy an attack. I'm sure it has been said before but what is England up to? Teams would be shaking in their boots if Lumb and Hales walked out to bat. Get Butler up the order too. Hales, Lumb, Root, Morgan and Butler is a fantastic top 5. If Butler is a great finisher then he's got the good to be up there order. I used to hate when NZ had McCullum down at 6 or 7 to finish the game, what a waste.
I'm frustrated, so I can imagine what England supporters are feeling.
Lumb is in his 30's, Roy is 24. I quantified my selection by pointing out that the ECB aren't going to drop Cook, anything else is wishful thinking. At least my way they can shoe horn in some more talent.
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The ODI team look more out of touch than ever. No team will fear there attack bar Hales, Buttler and maybe Anderson.
We need to use ODI's as the springboard for new England careers, get the likes of Roy, Taylor and even Rikki Clarke after tonights performance.
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I get that cook rode the storm in the tests and came back stronger for it, but ODIs is a different matter. He doesn't have the game for one day cricket and has to realise that. He is damaging the team by taking the spot of a more effective batsman.
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Why's Cook getting all the stick?
Ian Bell has 3 ODI hundreds in a 140 off games. That's pretty rubbish for a top order player.
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Why's Cook getting all the stick?
Ian Bell has 3 ODI hundreds in a 140 off games. That's pretty rubbish for a top order player.
He's statistically better than high class Faf in his games per hundred ratio!
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Any room for Rikki Clarke or Napier?
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Any room for Rikki Clarke or Napier?
They're probably both too old to be considered now.
Rikki Clarke's chance has been & gone, and Napier's never selected for a squad for whatever reason.
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Napier goes down on my list as one of the best players never to play an international game.
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Napier goes down on my list as one of the best players never to play an international game.
I would have thought he would have at least been given a crack leading upto the world cup. He bowls 90mph with control at the death and hits the ball long lower down the order, definitely not the type of player England would need in OZ ???
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Cook and Hales having a good start here.
Edit : Flip sake, I'm sorry Hales...
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When you're 6ft 6/7 you have to wonder why Hales is obsessed with the sweep shot. When one big stride will pretty much make most deliveries into a half volley.
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2 innings, 2 sweep shot dismissals.
What's the lesson here Alex??
Still an average of 41 isn't too bad! ;)
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Hales gone, now Cook - and the standard collapse has started...
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England have lost two wickets to India's part time spinners... Madness
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I dont think Cook should be in this England ODI team
Wheres the progression in his game?
Also I disagree with Nick Knight, high 70s is NOT a good strike rate for a top order batsman in ODIs in this era
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Ravindra Jadeja has it on England in ODI cricket.
They are mesmerised by him.
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England may as well declare & go home earlier. This is over as a contest...
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Same old...
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England getting blown away(if you can by medium pacers) at Birmingham.
23-3
Hales can't score unless ever balls is an off stump half volley.
Cook once again out in the slips
Ballance out to leading edge, caught cover.
This is embarrassing.
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Hales got the best ball so far I think.
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Sod this, I'm following the West Indies from now on!
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Hales got the best ball so far I think.
Totally disagree.
Hales stands on leg pole, but can't score on the leg side. So he's a sitting duck to in swinging deliveries.
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Hales can't score unless ever balls is an off stump half volley.
Takes a lot of half volleys to score 99 and 100+ in a T20 along with being a top 3 batsman.
You have become boring now.
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Takes a lot of half volleys to score 99 and 100+ in a T20 along with being a top 3 batsman.
You have become boring now.
Michael Holding and Ian Botham know a lot more than you...
So I'll listen to then thank you very much.
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And Richard Levi has a T20i hundred.
Where is he now?
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Boring.
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And Richard Levi has a T20i hundred.
Where is he now?
Averaging 60 in OD cricket this year?
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Stop engaging the troll. Just ignore him!
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We're becoming a bit of a joke in ODI's...run rate 2.75!
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time is running out for us to try to get a team together for the World Cupo, we are mles behind other countries
We need to start playing aggresive cricket and pick the players to do that-if it does'nt work at least we have had a go...
James Taylor and Jason Roy need to be picked and maybe james Vince too.
I would have ravi Bopara in the team.
We need guys who can clear the boundaries
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time is running out for us to try to get a team together for the World Cupo, we are mles behind other countries
We need to start playing aggresive cricket and pick the players to do that-if it does'nt work at least we have had a go...
James Taylor and Jason Roy need to be picked and maybe james Vince too.
I would have ravi Bopara in the team.
We need guys who can clear the boundaries
We've dropped our player who most consistently cleared the boundaries, Jade Dernbach!
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Would be extremely useful if Morgan can go big today, would allow the selectors more flexibility to make him captain and drop Cook. I'm in two minds over keeping Bell in, he's a classy player and may do better under less pressure.
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Selection has to be big and brave to prepare for the WC.
Hales
Roy
Vince
Morgan
Root
Bopara
Buttler
Napier (Mr death bowler)
Broad (if fit to bowl full tilt) or a real quick maybe Plunkett
Finn
Tredwell
Taylor reserve bat.
Ali reserve spin/bat
Willey/Stokes/Woakes
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I'd still have Woakes in over Willey but something similar to that would be good, I agree. Napier I'm a bit dubious over nowadays.
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I'd still have Woakes in over Willey but something similar to that would be good, I agree.
call....woakes and stokes to make the remainder of the squad.
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Ali throwing a spanner into the mix now!
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Ali throwing a spanner into the mix now!
Good lad, showing the others how to do it.
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206 ao, that's that shambles over with.
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Oh dear! I wonder if Cook transforms into - Ineptimus Prime?
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Dear Mr Collingwood,
Would you mind popping in to HQ this week, we seem to have gotten our selves into a pickle with our ODI team.
Regards
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continuing your robot theme, I am thinking more Short Circuit.
The over reliance on technology, ipads, etc. Am not human, but am a life-form, have soul... Johnny Five compute!
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This is all rather depressing
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we are getting a right thrashing here :(
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What happens to England when it comes to one day matches? It's like watching India in test series....depressing!
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Cooks post match interview sounds ominous, sounds like no change, ploughing on no matter what. :(
And..... 'outskilled', 'upskill' what the hell....the analysts are taking over! >:(
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credit India they are superb one day side. Not very good at test cricket but one-day stuff is top draw
we have never been very good at one day cricket, it needs a compelete change of mind-set
when were we(england) successful? i'm going to go back to 1987..that's 50 over cricket not 20 over cricket.
if someone corrects me i'll be pleasantly surprised...
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How loud does it have to get before Cook puts the needs of the team before his stubbornness. I have never rated him as a batsman but his record speaks for itself, clearly he can bat. The reason I don't rate him as a batsman is that he is simply dull. Another view would be that Cook is selfish, Cook bats for himself and his own glories. This dullness translates into his captaincy.
I am 100% sure that bringing in Jos Buttler for the tests was not Cook's decision, and keeping an unfit and out of form Matt Prior was Cook's decision. That is the sort of leadership I see from him, conservative. I would accept over 5 days it can work but it requires the team to outplay the opposition for the majority of the game. A strong leader which Cook is not can inspire a team to seize the initiative in key moments and win a game even if you are not outplaying the opposition.
In limited overs you simply have to seize the initiative in key moments and how often does this happen in the current England team? Limited overs cricket is for flair players be it with the bat, ball or in the field. Even if England lose with a team such as: Roy, Hales, Pietersen, Morgan, Root, Ali, Buttler in the top seven at least the spectators will be entertained! Before a ball is bowled against England the opposition know that they can restrict England to under a run a ball without any effort.
Simply put bring in the mavericks to entertain people at least in all of the limited overs cricket. After all every sport needs to be entertaining to succeed.
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Its an example of his strength also being his weakness. His single mindedness that enables him to score big runs in test cricket is harming the team in ODI cricket. What is obvious to all but cook is that ODI cricket has evolved and is clearly not suited to his ability. The selectors need to grow some and tell him that.
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Can't really see how Alastair Cook can remain England ODI captain or an ODI player.
It's been 38 innings since his last ODI century.
In these last 38 matches, Cook has scored 1146 runs @ 31.83. His S/R is a lowly 72.48.
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Can't really see how Alastair Cook can remain England ODI captain or an ODI player.
It's been 38 innings since his last ODI century.
In these last 38 matches, Cook has scored 1146 runs @ 31.83. His S/R is a lowly 72.48.
This Gerry, is one of the only things you will find everyone agrees with you on :D.
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There is need for one solid accumulator batsman in the top 3. So Cook, Bell or Ballance.
I would take Ballance at 3 who is young and hungry. Cook is just average in this cricket and Bell doesn't seem to rack those big scores up.
Hales is a top player, and should get better with international experience.
Morgan, Buttler and Root need to find their consistency.
Ali seemed to do well today, will nicely fill the second/back up spinner role.
Just need to find a few decent quicks, a spinner and a couple of batsmen.
The England team isn't bad, just the players picked are very average and captaincy is lacking imagination.
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What on Earth has happened to Steven Finn? at one time he was a 150kph bowler.
Today he was pretty much medium paced, barely crossing 140kph,
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A big problem is that none of our test players play domestic cricket, especially T20. Cook was banging on about it being the right players, but how do we know? We've never seen Cook, Bell etc play a full season of T20. Would they dominate and drag their teams into finals day or win it for them? I doubt it! Until the ECB make the T20 competition the focal point for all we won't actually know who are the best. Could you imagine the IPL with all the India stars rested? No, and it shouldn't happen to ours either.
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ODI squad for the next series leading up to World Cup
Hales
Roy
Ballance
Taylor
Ali
Bopara
Buttler
Rashid
Willey
Finn
Broad
Squad players
Vince
Morgan
Tredwell
Stokes
Gurney/Anderson because I think of anyone else ATM
Runs in the team but bowling seems weak
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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How Taylor does not have a place in that squad is beyond me.
I know Swanny made some inflammatory comments the other day but today was shocking.
It was like watching my team play and we are the worst in the world, literally check us out on LMS or all out cricket mag.
Get rid of all the old guard for the last game and let Taylor,Hales,Butler et al play their shots go at the bowling and not have to worry that Cook will get out for his obligatory low score!
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Slightly confused how Willey gets in so many peoples teams as a frontline bowler at the moment. Rashids a decent call but Tredwell and Ali appear to be holding his position fine at the moment. Woakes should be nailed on for the squad.
Roy I'm still a bit dubious over his technique at international level but if he can pull it off in the t20 good for him, nice to know we can find an agressive South African replacement batsmen so quickly ;).
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Hales
Taylor
Ballance
Bell
Morgan
Stokes
Ali
Buttler
Anderson
Broad
Finn
Plus Boyd Rankin, Vince, Michael Lumb, Luke Wright, Bopara and Roy as squad players...
Bowling is weak though.
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I just watched the highlights and wow. That England effort was poor beyond belief. Apart from Ali their strike rates were appalling. What on earth is going on?
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Rashid can't be far away from getting a call up in any of the formats!
150 and a 5for!
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Headingly tomorrow. Is it time for a resurgence or another day of chasing leather?
Weather looks good. BBC suggesting a spot of rain in the afternoon.. win the toss, bat first and then...
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Can't see England putting up anymore resistance however, the team is full of quality and on the off day could put one to India.
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Rashid can't be far away from getting a call up in any of the formats!
150 and a 5for!
I think we all know by now that despite being more than good enough, Dilly's only chance of getting in this England squad is if he retrains as a Michelin starred Tofu chef!
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England will probably win today. India have nothing to play for so will let them win and Cook will be all happy and that.
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strange england.
stokes and tredwell for ballance and gurney. dont really undertsand that.
but 2 down already, hales and ali gone for single figures. big loss again
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Shock Alex Hales still can't score on the leg side.
Must've been bullying some average bowling in domestic cricket to get such hype surrounding his batting...
God knows why Ballance was dropped either...
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its a long tail too. If these two do not put a few on then it could get awkward again!
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Ballance being dropped was ludicrous
Ali being moved to 3 when he should be at 5 also nuts.
Give Hales time - he has only played a couple of games. The guy is fantastic. He is also under huge pressure because he has Cook at the other end.
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Little bit of spin for Ashwin/Raina/Jadeja and England are totally mesmerised. Barely getting the ball off the square.
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Is anyone else sick of Eoin Morgan? Sometimes I feel I'm the only one who has noticed he hasn't scored a decent runs for years...
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I'm at the ground now, cracking day out. Nice weather and £4 a pint.
Root batted well shame butter threw it away. Silly run.
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I was at the football on wednesday and it was 4.95 a bottle. 4 a pint is a bargain.(on free tickets, left early)
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Is anyone else sick of Eoin Morgan? Sometimes I feel I'm the only one who has noticed he hasn't scored a decent runs for years...
i think he needs a run in the side to get in form for the WC.
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Woakes is not an opening bowler. Finn should be opening, steaming in, using the new ball.
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i think he needs a run in the side to get in form for the WC.
...Morgan has been in the one day side for years!?
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Good win and some solid performances but I have a horrible feeling that there will now be several people in the dressing room thinking:
''brilliant, we have got this one day cricket malarkey sorted! Well done Cookie! That's us sorted for the World Cup''
I hate myself for saying this but would another loss have been better, in the long run, for English cricket?
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We didn't win that, India lost it.
Well batted root. About the only upside from this game for me.
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Thats exactly what I was considering. Good to see Anderson starting to use more variations though is very good to see.
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Moores avoidance on Knights questions over Cook was brilliant :D.
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We didn't win that, India lost it.
Well batted root. About the only upside from this game for me.
England will probably win today. India have nothing to play for so will let them win and Cook will be all happy and that.
Gloat
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Interesting review by Simon Hughes from the bbc as to why England can't do well at one day cricket...http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/29054156
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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James Taylor must be quite literally crying in the back of the dressing room...
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Game feels so much more exciting already with this line up.
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Taylor? I think stokes has more reason to feel aggrieved.
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After one good innings and some fairly average bowling ?
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Taylor? I think stokes has more reason to feel aggrieved.
Don't think so personally, Stokes can do all he wants at domestic level, if he can't pull it off at international level at the moment as he hasn't then he shouldn't be in the team (in my opinion).
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Good game!