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General Cricket => Latest Matches => Topic started by: Buzz on November 17, 2015, 10:58:14 AM
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The Odi series is almost done - and England's next test part is being discussed at the moment to be announced next week.
It is clear that the names in the frame will come from the below list - although I am not entirely sure which 16 they will go for - I think it is very much injury dependent.
Cook
Hales
Bell
Root
Taylor
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Broad
Anderson
Finn
Balance
Compton
Bairstow
Ansari
Plunkett
Footitt
Woakes
My first choice team would be
Cook
Hales
Root
KP (oops sorry what was I thinking - I meant to have Compton opening the batting and Hales and Root Moving down a place)
Taylor
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Plunkett (maybe footitt)
Broad
Anderson
the fringe slots will be interesting
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Not a Wood fan? Or is he injured?
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The Odi series is almost done - and England's next test part is being discussed at the moment to be announced next week.
It is clear that the names in the frame will come from the below list - although I am not entirely sure which 16 they will go for - I think it is very much injury dependent.
Cook
Hales
Bell
Root
Taylor
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Broad
Anderson
Finn
Balance
Compton
Bairstow
Ansari
Plunkett
Footitt
Woakes
My first choice team would be
Cook
Hales
Root
KP (oops sorry what was I thinking - I meant to have Compton opening the batting and Hales and Root Moving down a place)
Taylor
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Plunkett (maybe footitt)
Broad
Anderson
the fringe slots will be interesting
You wouldn't pick Ian Bell, Buzz? Interesting...
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Can't remember where I read it, but Ballance & Lyth are in with a shout for the squad.
Other than the opener, I think 2-11 picks itself (injuries aside)
A.Opener
Cook
Bell (they will take him for experience, just signed on for another 12m)
Root
Taylor
Stokes
Buttler
Mo
Wood/Plunkett (Prefer Wood)
Broad
Jimmy
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I'd like to see Compton get another chance.
My 11 would be.
Cook
Hales / Compton
Root
Taylor
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Broad
Wood - If not fit, Plunkett
Anderson
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I think Bell should consider himself fortunate to make the trip - he doesn't really seem to be in top form at the mo, is his mind ready for a bombardment?
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im still not sure as do we give Rashid a run to see if he can do something
Ali is a good spinner but cant seem to block and end up and Rashid is definitely more of an attacking option so I'd be tempted to "rest" Ali and get Rashid in at 7/8
I just want my spinner to be able to hold p and end or if not create chances and I feel a leggie is just more attacking especially against an English offie
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I'd have both in the squad as you only need 2 twirlers in SA.
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The team for the first test WILL be ( if everybody is fit )
1- A Cook
2- A Hales (still think Steyn and Morkel will destroy him due to his planting of the front foot)
3- I Bell (We won't expose a new player at 3, he has massive experience & will play well on those pitches)
4- J Root
5- J Taylor
6- B Stokes
7- J Bairstow
8- M Ali
9- S Broad
10- M Wood
11- J Anderson
Rashid, Plunkett, Butler, Woakes and Ballance will be the remainder of the squad
However... I can see Jason Roy being a surprise selection. South African born and would add something different to the middle order
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Not a Wood fan? Or is he injured?
My understanding is that Wood is having an op on his ankle - if fit he is definitely in the squad.
You wouldn't pick Ian Bell, Buzz? Interesting...
Ian Bell will retire - he is finished.
I have no truck for Rashid at test level either. !!
Reds, you had me up to at 'Jason Roy'.
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I'm not sure Hales will be tight enough with his technique to be a successful opener, but it's only fair that they give him a shot, even if they bring Lyth back in to the squad (as back-up). You never know, look at Warner, he was a climber when he started.
Cook
Bell
Root
Taylor
Bairstow/Buttler. Bairstow has the gloves and the form but I think there is little between them.
Ali
Stokes
Broad
Plunkett (or Wood if fit)
Anderson
I'd like them to get Ballance back in the squad, he was unlucky to be dropped when there were so many similarly underperforming players, it could had been any of them.
I would think this is Bell's last tour, maybe be available next summer before he retires (unless he gets his form back).
Whilst I like Rashid, unless he can take that step up he'll struggle to keep his place. It took Shane Warne a while to settle into international cricket (about 5 tests before the Gatting ball). I'm not saying Rashid is anywhere that quality, but it does show that you can't be certain off the first few tests.
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Buzz, I am with you and think Bell should retire but he won't. New contract been signed and they will want some experience out in the middle order.
Even if the experience will only average 19.36 for the series......
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Reds, you had me up to 'Jason Roy'.
He's the next KP.... LOL!!
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He's the next KP.... LOL!!
may as well ban him now and save the time
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may as well ban him now and save the time
I meant more, flamboyant South African
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It'll be pretty much the same squad that went to Pakistan, hopefully Ansari replaces Patel on the trip
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So people will sack off rashid and keep Ali ?? Why.. Ali is utter tonk, can't bowl and isn't higher than an 8 with the bat either.. Rashid is a decent enough batsmen for 8 and better spinner and you're picking a spinner after all
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Cook
Hales
Root
Taylor
Bairstow
Stokes
Rashid
Ali/Finn
Wood
Broad
Anderson
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I reckon the side will look something like this:
Cook
Hales
Bell
Root
Taylor
Stokes (if fit)
Bairstow
Ali
Plunkett
Broad
Anderson
Ballance, Buttler, Rashid, Wood/Finn/Footitt depending on fitness.
What I would pick:
Cook
Compton
Bell/Ballance
Root
Taylor
Stokes
Buttler
Rashid
Broad
Wood/Plunkett
Anderson
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Selection news leaked on twitter saying that Finn and Wood are unfit and don't make the trip. Stokes is fit, which is a huge bonus. Recalls expected for Compton and Woakes. Patel to keep his place, surprisingly given it's unlikely 2 spinners will be required.
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Why on Earth are they going back to Compton?
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Lack of any other options I would guess.
A steady hand at the top of the order? He's not the worst option at the current time IMHO.
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He averages 31 which isn't really good enough.
I hope we just play Hales and whatever happens happens. I'd probably call up Plunkett/Footitt to replace Finn/Wood
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I hope Hales,if he plays in the tests,and gets runs I really do...he will be in an England shirt and so gets my support and lots of others on here I'm sure..
But England are a bit stuck and have been since Straussy retired-lost count of how many we have tried.
IMHO I think Compton is not a bad selection,the scoreboard may not rattle along but would you rather be 30-0 off 15 overs in a five day match or 50-2 off 10?
What do people want from England....
Of Hales or Compton I would pick Compton myself.He didn't do badly last time,may or may not be a difficult character but not everyone is 'nice bloke' .
And as for telling Goochie he 'he didn't understand his game' then if he did really say that at least he takes responsibility and doesn't lean on others too much.
Your own your own out in the middle
:)
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Hales will clearly take the spot as opener, if they select Compton it would be as backup which wouldn't be a bad call IMO, he's certainly not going to let anyone down and could come in at 3 to cover Bell also if needed.
Seamer selection will be interesting if Wood and Finn are out for me - Woakes coming back makes sense, especially as he covers if Stokes' fitness is uncertain. Fingers crossed the other spot doesn't go to Jordan... Hoping for Footit instead.
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This is my point edgers - Bell is fallable, paper-thin confidence, everyone is expecting Hales to be the next warner, but really he could be a walking wicket in the sights of the Saffers. why not have a solid, calm, decently performing option in the squad who could bat 1,2 or 3 if something happens.
People talk about Lyth again - I think it may still be a bit soon, and I don't think Balance is a test no3 as long as he has a hole in his a*se.
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Compton should never have been dropped in the first place, short sighted selection to get Root in as opener against the Aussies. If they had stuck with Compton I doubt we would be having this discussion.
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Compton should never have been dropped in the first place, short sighted selection to get Root in as opener against the Aussies. If they had stuck with Compton I doubt we would be having this discussion.
good point, as brilliant as Root is,(and in the middle order is there a better player than him out there?) he's not an opening bat at Test level. He might be one day but i'll have a wager his whole career for us is number 4 or 5.
not dis- similar to KP what pretty much stayed in the same batting position,and Graham Thorpe(legend)
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Dare I say the Saffer attack is possibly being a little overhyped lately - no Philander, Steyn is obviously handy but not the 90+mph menace he has been, and we've always dealt with Morkel quite well in the past. Bell has a good record against SA too, but I agree entirely with El Cat that a steady standby for the top 3 is a good plan.
Ballance has a future I think, but either not at 3 or if he stops taking silly size backwards trigger movements. Unfortunately he's publicly declared he won't be doing that in a hurry, which I think will count against him. Middle order cover who knows?
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if they're taking Compton it wouldn't be the worst idea to slot him in at 3 - if Hales is out early you've got someone to consolidate the innings and similarly if Cook is out you've got someone to anchor the innings
I'd like to see Hales given a shot but from watching him play in the ODI's he would need to be a lot tighter outside his off stump whilst the ball is still moving around - he plays a lot of check cuts which I could see getting him in trouble. Definitely not writing him off though, he's certainly got the talent and with the right voices around him you'd hope he'd be able to get the right application as well. If you could pair his natural game with the patience needed in the majority of test match innings then England could be on to something.
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Would we see a different side selected if selectors had to put their houses on their selections? Obviously isn't going to happen but if it were a criteria and I was selector I know who I would rather have opening to ensure I didn't lose my house, get your pads on Mr Compton and while we're there, KP number 3 please, Taylor 5, stokes your batting no higher than 6, Buttler your keeping coz bairstow can't catch a cold, but your batting at 8 behind Moeen till you sort your game out.
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http://www.ecb.co.uk/news/articles/ballance-compton-and-footitt-included-test-squad (http://www.ecb.co.uk/news/articles/ballance-compton-and-footitt-included-test-squad)
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They've done it. They've actually dropped Bell. Compton and Ballance in...
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Compton, Ballance back. Bell dropped
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They've done it. They've actually dropped Bell. Compton and Ballance in...
Just heard this and am very surprised - Compton to bat at 3 and Hales to open? Or vice versa? Wouldn't it make sense for Compton to have been somewhere preparing for Steyn and Morkel somewhere if this was the plan?
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Surprised to see Bell dropped, not that he deserves his place on form.... But have I missed something is Rashid injured?
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Dare I say the Saffer attack is possibly being a little overhyped lately - no Philander, Steyn is obviously handy but not the 90+mph menace he has been, and we've always dealt with Morkel quite well in the past. Bell has a good record against SA too, but I agree entirely with El Cat that a steady standby for the top 3 is a good plan.
Ballance has a future I think, but either not at 3 or if he stops taking silly size backwards trigger movements. Unfortunately he's publicly declared he won't be doing that in a hurry, which I think will count against him. Middle order cover who knows?
No Steyn? He's got a groin strain not a leg amputated he's likely to play the third Test against India therefore he'll be fine for Durban.
Philander has been in decline for a while now but SA have unearthed Rabada who looks a fantastic young fast bowler.
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Bell is dropped! The last of the 2005 era is on his way out.
Starting XI for me
Cook
Hales
Root
Taylor
Bairstow
Stokes
Woakes
Ali
Broad
Anderson
Footitt
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They'll only need 1 spinner out there (Moeen) and Patel is there as back up I would have thought.
All about the seamers over there
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you guys should see the opening post where I said that Rashid wasn't being considered and later that Bell wasn't going to play.
why are people surprised??
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If Woakes or Jordan get anywhere near the starting XI the SA batsman will be happy
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This is my XI
1. A.Cook
2. A Hales
3. J Root
4. J.Taylor
5. G.Ballance
6. B.Stokes
7. J.Bairstow
8. M.Ali
9. S.Broad
10. M.Footitt
11. J.Anderson
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They surely have to give Hales a go otherwise its pointless taking him on tour like they have decided with Ali
1.COok
2.Hales
3.Rooooooooootttttttt
4.Taylor
5.Ballance
6.Stokes
7.Bairstow/Butler but maybe Bairstow deserves a run
8.Ali
9.Broad
10.Woakes/Footit
11.Anderson
if woakes in then higher than Broad
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Rashid :( :( :(
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Not that he's hit many of them lately, but i will miss Ian Bell's glorious cover drive!
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This is my XI
1. A.Cook
2. A Hales
3. J Root
4. J.Taylor
5. G.Ballance
6. B.Stokes
7. J.Bairstow
8. M.Ali
9. S.Broad
10. M.Footitt
11. J.Anderson
Swap Root and Taylor's batting positions for me. Don't know why just have Taylor down as a cool head at 3.
Interestingly, Finn posted on Facebook earlier today that rumours of him missing the tour were basically rubbish. Perhaps he's hoping to be fit for the ODI's?
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Surprised to see Bell dropped, he was hanging on in the UAE and out of sorts.
On the plus side good to see Compton in, Footit and IF THERE IS ANYONE ELSE ON THE FORUM HAPPY TO HAPPY BALLANCE IN THE SQUAD STAND UP WITH ME AND GIVE IT THE BIG ONE!!!
:) :) :) :)
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No Steyn? He's got a groin strain not a leg amputated he's likely to play the third Test against India therefore he'll be fine for Durban.
Philander has been in decline for a while now but SA have unearthed Rabada who looks a fantastic young fast bowler.
Didn't say no Steyn?
Holy balls, most surprising England squad I've possibly ever seen? Liam Plunkett must be royally pissed off, pleased to see Footitt in though. Strong chance of Footitt starting in the side?
Surely Hales and Compton will both play at 2/3:
1.Cook
2.Hales/Compton
3.Compton/Hales
4.Root
5.Taylor
6.Stokes
7.Bairstow
8.Ali
9.Woakes/Footitt/Leg-side wides
10.Broad
11.Anderson
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Leave Root at 4 and Taylor 5! Compton at 3 would be great! After all that's where he bats! I felt for him going in to open
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If anyone plays at 3 other than Root I'd probably say Ballance, let him just sit at the crease all day...
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Still not 100% sure why Jordan is in the Test squad except that he's a gun fielder. He's a decent white ball player but not up to Test standard for me.
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I hope to god they do not put Balance at 3
I've been told he is a good player by some but he looked all at sea at 3
if he plays he needs to be 5
I'm liking the idea of Compton at 3 though as
steady cook
attacking Hales
steady Compton
attacking Roooooootttttttttt
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Swap Root and Taylor's batting positions for me. Don't know why just have Taylor down as a cool head at 3.
Interestingly, Finn posted on Facebook earlier today that rumours of him missing the tour were basically rubbish. Perhaps he's hoping to be fit for the ODI's?
This could work for me as well, worth giving Gary another shot and down at 5 it should (theoretically??) be easier down at 5.
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Whitaker has announced Hales will get "first opportunity to open with Cook"
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I think Compton is the replacement for Bell...
Cook
Hales
Compton
Root
Taylor
Stokes
Buttler/Bairstow
Ali
Broad
Woakes/Footitt (I'd pick Footitt to change the right arm fast-medium lineup but England can be a bit safety first)
Anderson
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I hope to god they do not put Balance at 3
I've been told he is a good player by some but he looked all at sea at 3
if he plays he needs to be 5
I'm liking the idea of Compton at 3 though as
steady cook
attacking Hales
steady Compton
attacking Roooooootttttttttt
This also works for me but Taylor has to get first crack at 5 before Ballance if Compton plays 3
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I agree if as above taylor goes in at 5
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I think Compton is the replacement for Bell...
Cook
Hales
Compton
Root
Taylor
Stokes
Buttler/Bairstow
Ali
Broad
Woakes/Footitt (I'd pick Footitt to change the right arm fast-medium lineup but England can be a bit safety first)
Anderson
Yep..bit blinsided with Bell out but youre right, Compton bats 3 in the team, I was thinking if they take him he must play from the start.Makes sense now if Hales Opens, Compton 3
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Agree (or at least can see) with their logic on most picks, but Woakes and Jordan both ahead of Plunkett, especially with Finn and Wood out.
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Bell screwed over big time. A very good test match number 5, kept getting pushed up the order until he failed. I imagine Ballance knows how it feels. At least England have appeared to try and end the problem by putting in somebody who can bat 3 at county level. However, Bell didn't do that badly in the UAE and imho deserved a chance in his proper position before getting the boot.
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Jordan - words fail me.
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Jordan - words fail me.
Same, although Woakes isn't yet a world beater I can understand his selection as he's a tight bowler at reasonable pace who can move the ball. Jordan is just a bits and pieces player to me.
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so Rashid, Plunkett and Bell out
Woakes, Jordan, Footitt, Compton and Ballance in
Words fail me. You drop your best spinner, fastest bowler and most experienced batsman and bring in two medium pacers, a good left arm quick, a guy with a poor first class record last year and one who...whilst unlucky to be dropped should have been asked to earn his place back. Utter incompetence.
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Jordan, Woakes and Patel are 3 wasted picks in the squad. Why suddenly bomb off Rashid and a lad who's carried drinks for past 12 months Plunkett. Happy with the batting, apart from the news that Hales is actually going to play with his sketchy technique. Hope Bairstow gets the nod with the gloves
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Not that he's hit many of them lately, but i will miss Ian Bell's glorious cover drive!
To be replaced be a Hales glorious moo over cow.
Splendid!
Jordan is in to be the sub fielder (marginal gains theory), woakes is a good all round player and Cook wanted the control Patel offers.
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The England cricket team is quickly becoming like so many clubs we all know of. It's not what you know, it's who you know! Your face has to fit....
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so Rashid, Plunkett and Bell out
Woakes, Jordan, Footitt, Compton and Ballance in
Words fail me. You drop your best spinner, fastest bowler and most experienced batsman and bring in two medium pacers, a good left arm quick, a guy with a poor first class record last year and one who...whilst unlucky to be dropped should have been asked to earn his place back. Utter incompetence.
Anybody sense the Compton bandwagon has been rolling in the press for a few months now?
I think Rashid was worth a punt, there might be one spinning deck in the series but the thought of AB batting against him isn't nice. Plunkett should of gone instead of Jordan. Woakes was making progress before injury and might be a backup to Stokes. Ballance should be kept waiting until Bell had failed at 5. At that point we are talking next county season and a chance for Ballance (or others) to stake a claim.
Bairstow dodged a bullet thanks to Buttler I feel. Buttler 2nd choice for the test series and if we had a part time keeper he might of not even made the squad.
Timing a bit poor as well. England are still playing ODI/T20, not the best prep for Rashid is it?
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Cook wanted the control Patel offers.
Might as well take me if that's the reason. I bowl less bad bowls and spin it more. Like Jordan, a redundant selection if you want to win a test match.
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Same, although Woakes isn't yet a world beater I can understand his selection as he's a tight bowler at reasonable pace who can move the ball. Jordan is just a bits and pieces player to me.
Woakes is decent, looks like he is improving as a cricketer. With Jordan I can only presume it's a brain freeze, they guy is a stunning fielder but that's not enough to get in the Test side at any point I can remember in the past.
As far as Bell goes, surprised they have left him out. I reckon because the opening slot has been a problem and they don't know how Hales will go, and JT being given a chance that's why he got dropped.
They could of left Balance out thou and kept Bell in his spot. I reckon sommat behind the scenes has gone on because Bayliss said they want Bell on the tour 2 weeks ago.
Maybe he no longer has the hunger for touring and will permanently be left out now
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By the looks of it they are only taking 1 spinner and Rashid is/was the back up but they felt he would benefit more from playing in Big bash etc ready for the world t20 rather than being dragged around as the water boy so slight method to the madness
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Might as well take me if that's the reason. I bowl less bad bowls and spin it more. Like Jordan, a redundant selection if you want to win a test match.
I beg to differ .... You bowled too short at times last year... Patel just gets the nod for me ;)
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Rashid is off to actually play some cricket, fair enough. Shame they haven't done the same with Buttler.
What's the problem with Woakes on here? Regularly hits around 90mph, accurate, moves it both ways, superb first class record. Also good enough with the bat to have been given his test debut at 6.
Jordan going as sub fielder, who knows what Plunkett has done to deserve dropping. Neither of them have played a game for a while and Jordan has got ahead somehow.
Odd decision on Patel ahead of Ansari, but Patel actually did pretty well in the UAE and maybe they want Ansari spending time with Vettori on spin camp. Not gonna play anyway so who cares.
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Anybody sense the Compton bandwagon has been rolling in the press for a few months now?
I think Rashid was worth a punt, there might be one spinning deck in the series but the thought of AB batting against him isn't nice. Plunkett should of gone instead of Jordan. Woakes was making progress before injury and might be a backup to Stokes. Ballance should be kept waiting until Bell had failed at 5. At that point we are talking next county season and a chance for Ballance (or others) to stake a claim.
Bairstow dodged a bullet thanks to Buttler I feel. Buttler 2nd choice for the test series and if we had a part time keeper he might of not even made the squad.
Timing a bit poor as well. England are still playing ODI/T20, not the best prep for Rashid is it?
Compton - yes, there seems to have been a movement within the press corps to promote the lad. Its a tricky one because I can certainly see the argument that he was ditched a little prematurely last time around. My concern would be that he is well past his thirtieth now, remains every bit as intense as he ever was, and has done very little since being dropped to bang on the door for a recall. It sends a very odd message to a lot of very prolific players in county cricket - James Vince, James Hildreth, Adam Lyth, Varun Chopra etc that he is getting a recall at this stage (even if it may actually be the right decision, arguably).
Rashid - yes, there is the possibility that he'd get AB'd - but do you really think that Moeen and Samit are any more immune to that punishment if they meet the great man on the wrong day and in the wrong conditions? In the meantime, who if the three is most likely to win you a test? Its the guy who won't be there, isn;t it...
Bairstow should have survived as a batsman - he did pretty well in the UAE - you just hope now that he is going to get a fair run as a keeper/bat from the selectors...some chance of that isn't there?
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The big thing I don't like about this is he was thinking about retiring only to be talked round with all the crap of we need you and you can still do it, then to be dropped like this does not sit right with me.
Personally I think he should have retired after the ashes on a high but seems to have been held out to dry by ECB.
Great news for bears fans though as he will dominate county cricket as he has done when he has played
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Great news for bears fans though as he will dominate county cricket as he has done when he has played
Course he will and you can almost see what's going happen can't you? He'll score LOADS next season Compton will have a lean run at 3 and all of a sudden all the people who wanted Bell dumped earlier this year will be whinging to have him back. That being said I think Bell was on borrowed time.
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Course he will and you can almost see what's going happen can't you? He'll score LOADS next season Compton will have a lean run at 3 and all of a sudden all the people who wanted Bell dumped earlier this year will be whinging to have him back. That being said I think Bell was on borrowed time.
Yeah...touch and go for a while he's been short on confidence and short on runs. Sounds like thou from his quotes this morning he will try to get his place back. That's going to be very hard I would suggest now.
But yes, If you support Warwickshire you have Bell and the trench digger to watch for a while it seems. Bell has always been passionate about playing for his County which not all pro's have been-that's good to see.
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Surprisingly KP has a view on the Bell situation that doesn't entirely agree with ECB's standpoint.........
https://www.facebook.com/BreatheSportUK/videos/1685000945076945/ (https://www.facebook.com/BreatheSportUK/videos/1685000945076945/)
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If Compton brought in as a possible opener should Hales fail then i'd rather have seen Carberry. Proved himself apt against fast bowling on bouncy wickets.
If compton 3 and Hales gets out, I worry we'd have another 40 runs in an hour between Compton and Cook. Hopefully not.
No complaints over Bell being dropped, he hasn't performed in a few innings now and you can see he's having to try at the crease, rather than it being his usual natural flowing game on autopilot.
Cricket teams are made up of 11 men, no room for sentiment or past glorys in there. When that 11 cross that rope, you should be confident they're the best players, and in good form. If they're not in good form you should believe they can find they're old form in this match. Bell has shown in his last 10 matches he can't find that form, and he's about to go against one hell of a bowling attack.
England XI for me:
Cook
Hales
Roooooooot
Taylor
Bairstow
Stokes (Is he fit?)
Ali
Jordan
Broad
Footit
Anderson
5 seamers overkill? Maybe, concerns over Comptons strike rate. Footit in because I like a left armer in the side. If only Sidebottom hadn't retired from tests!
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Surprisingly KP has a view on the Bell situation that doesn't entirely agree with ECB's standpoint.........
https://www.facebook.com/BreatheSportUK/videos/1685000945076945/ (https://www.facebook.com/BreatheSportUK/videos/1685000945076945/)
I agree with him. Dropping Bell is asinine. Epic stupidity.
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Surprisingly KP has a view on the Bell situation that doesn't entirely agree with ECB's standpoint.........
https://www.facebook.com/BreatheSportUK/videos/1685000945076945/ (https://www.facebook.com/BreatheSportUK/videos/1685000945076945/)
Is that the same KP who is a director of Ian Bell's management team?
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If Compton brought in as a possible opener should Hales fail then i'd rather have seen Carberry. Proved himself apt against fast bowling on bouncy wickets.
If compton 3 and Hales gets out, I worry we'd have another 40 runs in an hour between Compton and Cook. Hopefully not.
No complaints over Bell being dropped, he hasn't performed in a few innings now and you can see he's having to try at the crease, rather than it being his usual natural flowing game on autopilot.
Cricket teams are made up of 11 men, no room for sentiment or past glorys in there. When that 11 cross that rope, you should be confident they're the best players, and in good form. If they're not in good form you should believe they can find they're old form in this match. Bell has shown in his last 10 matches he can't find that form, and he's about to go against one hell of a bowling attack.
England XI for me:
Cook
Hales
Roooooooot
Taylor
Bairstow
Stokes (Is he fit?)
Ali
Jordan
Broad
Footit
Anderson
5 seamers overkill? Maybe, concerns over Comptons strike rate. Footit in because I like a left armer in the side. If only Sidebottom hadn't retired from tests!
Probably one too many. 4 will be enough, I hope, unless there is another all-rounder
Cook
Hales
Ballance
Root
Taylor
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Broad
Footitt
Anderson
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Has Ballance sorted his technique out since being dropped from the ashes? otherwise he'll not last 20 balls.
Rashid dropped so he can go play big bash, getting experience for the world T20 cup
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Still can't understand why they've dropped Bell and picked up Ballance - what has Ballance done to prove his worth?
Best bowling attack in the world, and we're sending Ballance and Compton. Jesus.
Good timing for M&H though, coincidence? :-[
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Is that the same KP who is a director of Ian Bell's management team?
That's him, big tall South African lad, decent cricketer they reckon.
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must read the forum and think they need a pr boost hahaha
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I'd be flabbergasted if the South Africans bowl anything pitched up at Ali, he will be like a rabbit in the headlights, they will bump him out in every test, and smash his over pitched and over paced off-spin allover
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sounds like the Saffers are on social media already getting into England over the selections and non-selections!!
It may just be banter but Boucher has a point leaving Bell out...I know he had a poor 12 months but he is a proven player
we will find out I guess.....but yeah SA are gonna bomb Ali and Ballance big time
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5 batsmen, 1 batsman / keeper, 4 seamers, one spinner (ali)
The team will bat down to 8, with Broad at 9 and two bunnies. also allows for 4 x seamers and 2 x off-spinners.
None of this 5 seamers lark, you need plenty of batters out there!
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I'd never have dropped Bell and, listening to Cook, Michael Vaughan and Bayliss just after the UAE test series, I don't think they foresaw it. Cook had a shocking lean run and clearly thought Bell would come through it. Bayliss was actually talking about Bell playing to SA. Vaughan said he has to go, for his experience.
I just don't see Compton and/or Ballance coping as well. There's a perception that Bell plays spin well. He doesn't. He dances down to a ball, then goes into survival mode. He doesn't read the ball out of the bowler's hand at all well. However, pace he can play. Very well. He loves the ball coming on and bouncy tracks and I honestly think he'd score runs in SA. I genuinely don't think Compton or Ballance are better options on SA pitches against that attack.
To not even take him, even if you want to start with another player, is nonsensical. It really is. Maybe Root's come of age and is seen as an experienced head. Great. Top, top player. But what if his back goes? Even with him, you've got a top eight batting order with one player who's played over 40 tests.
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There's always a chance Bell may have actually decided he does want out of the international arena and it was more his choice?
And those saying what has Ballance done? Well scored runs and at 5 where he belongs, that's probably a start.
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I think Bell would be decent against quality pace, as he has proved in the past. So I think they are making a mistake.
But why do I think that Compton will do well - I feel it in my water!! Assuming he makes the team!
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Why do people insist on moving Root around. Leave him at 4 where he is doing well - don't rock the boat!!
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I'd never have dropped Bell and, listening to Cook, Michael Vaughan and Bayliss just after the UAE test series, I don't think they foresaw it. Cook had a shocking lean run and clearly thought Bell would come through it. Bayliss was actually talking about Bell playing to SA. Vaughan said he has to go, for his experience.
I just don't see Compton and/or Ballance coping as well. There's a perception that Bell plays spin well. He doesn't. He dances down to a ball, then goes into survival mode. He doesn't read the ball out of the bowler's hand at all well. However, pace he can play. Very well. He loves the ball coming on and bouncy tracks and I honestly think he'd score runs in SA. I genuinely don't think Compton or Ballance are better options on SA pitches against that attack.
To not even take him, even if you want to start with another player, is nonsensical. It really is. Maybe Root's come of age and is seen as an experienced head. Great. Top, top player. But what if his back goes? Even with him, you've got a top eight batting order with one player who's played over 40 tests.
And yet I bet you think hales, lyth, buttler, Ali will right ??
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Still can't understand why they've dropped Bell and picked up Ballance - what has Ballance done to prove his worth?
Best bowling attack in the world, and we're sending Ballance and Compton. Jesus.
Good timing for M&H though, coincidence? :-[
Yet you'll happily send hales, Ali and buttler?? Ali I can't play anything quick or shirt, buttler I can't play anything but slogs and hales who tries to pull or flash drive anything full.. Yeah, so much better than Compton.
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Ballance's four hundreds in fifteen Tests compares favourably with Bell's two in his last twenty-eight.
I've been Bell's biggest fan down the years (going right back to standing up for him when everyone was on his back in 2005), but I don't think he can feel too hard done by.
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Tough one with potentially moving root to 3, splits opinion between either having your best player at 3 or leaving a high class performer where he is
Either way, I don't envy being a selector.
My XI:
Hales
Cook
Compton
Root
Taylor
Stokes
Patel
Buttler
Broad
Anderson
Footit
If it's not the 3,4,5 above then I'd like to see Root, Taylor, Ballance
Don't see the value in Ali really - no control and he's in primarily as a bowler irregardless of his batting - Patel should offer more with the ball and is comparable with the bat
Plunkett has a right to be peeved, unless somethings gone on behind closed doors. Either way I'd like to see him go to the big bash as well
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Some surprise inclusions and omissions from that squad.
Surprised there's no Bell after he didn't do badly in the UAE. Also surprised Ansari didn't make the tour.
Samit Patel probably can't beleive he's got 2 free holidays this winter having been overlooked for the original UAE squad! And I can't help but feel Compton's selection has been heavily influenced by the recent media storm surrounding him.
If you're going to take them you may as well play them.
I suspect the team for the first test will be:
Cook*
Hales
Compton
Root
Taylor
Stokes
Bairstow/Butler+
Ali/Patel
Broad
Anderson
Footit
With Butler finding some kind of form with the bat in the last ODI I feel Bairstow may lose the gloves and be shafted by the selectors again.
With only one spinner it will be a toss up between Moeen and Samit, maybe flip a coin? Patel offers more control but I can't help feel neither of them is a rip through the opposition type bowler.
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Thats about it Cam - they'll go with the men in posession I think -
Cook*
Hales
Compton
Root
Taylor
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Broad
Anderson
Footit
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Ballance before Compton, surely? He showed promise as a Tesr batsman until the World Cup fiasco.
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Samit offers more control? I think that tells you exactly where English spin bowling is at!
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If it was a question of Ballance versus Bell, i would go with Bell. But i guess the selectors probably felt Bell needs a break to work on his game and get back into good form. I just hope this isn't the end of Ian Bell.
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If it was a question of Ballance versus Bell, i would go with Bell. But i guess the selectors probably felt Bell needs a break to work on his game and get back into good form. I just hope this isn't the end of Ian Bell.
Agreed.
I think it's possible that Compton will play as an opener.
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Whitaker has stated publicly that Hales will open http://on.fb.me/1PQCgsl (http://on.fb.me/1PQCgsl)
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Ballance seriously! Am I watching a different player to the selectors?
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A thought - will the first test v SA be the first England test side to not contain a 2005 Ashes winner since that series?
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A thought - will the first test v SA be the first England test side to not contain a 2005 Ashes winner since that series?
I think you're right!
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A thought - will the first test v SA be the first England test side to not contain a 2005 Ashes winner since that series?
Did Anderson get a winners medal? He was in the "squad" I think.
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Did Anderson get a winners medal? He was in the "squad" I think.
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Was 12th man a lot but never played
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They picked Brigadier Block instead of Jimmy to replace Jones for the final test!
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Ballance seriously! Am I watching a different player to the selectors?
I still can't forget how Ballance was flinching to balls on off-stump from Boult in NZ vs ENG, lords test match. He was pretty much scared of facing NZ bowlers. How did the selectors think he would fare better against Steyn/Morkel/Philander @ SA (esp Durban!) ??
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I still can't forget how Ballance was flinching to balls on off-stump from Boult in NZ vs ENG, lords test match. He was pretty much scared of facing NZ bowlers. How did the selectors think he would fare better against Steyn/Morkel/Philander @ SA (esp Durban!) ??
Scared? He didn't play them well, but he certainly wasn't scared.
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Compton and Cook then Ballance would provide a solid platform for Root etc
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Compton and Cook then Ballance would provide a solid platform for Root etc
That is the worst possible combination in my book.
You need to have an attacking opening bat and a multi dimensional number 3.
It staggers me Root doesn't do the job of 3.
It would make a big difference.
As for an opening bat. I have my fingers crossed Hales will work out, but have a few concerns about his play against genuine pace.
Compton will get picked however, most likely at 3.
As for Ballance, he needs to sort his technique out. I wouldn't be picking him, I have to admit I am not a huge Ballance fan.
Given we know that the order will be
Cook, Hales, Compton, Roooot, Taylor, Stokes, Bairstow, Ali, Broad, Anderson and another quick, likely to be footitt. The only thing we can to is keep our fingers crossed.
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I still can't forget how Ballance was flinching to balls on off-stump from Boult in NZ vs ENG, lords test match. He was pretty much scared of facing NZ bowlers. How did the selectors think he would fare better against Steyn/Morkel/Philander @ SA (esp Durban!) ??
I think your barking up the wrong tree.technical fault-yes..scared? Um def not
Ballance is and will be a very good player for England.
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That is the worst possible combination in my book.
You need to have an attacking opening bat and a multi dimensional number 3.
It staggers me Root doesn't do the job of 3.
It would make a big difference.
As for an opening bat. I have my fingers crossed Hales will work out, but have a few concerns about his play against genuine pace.
Compton will get picked however, most likely at 3.
As for Ballance, he needs to sort his technique out. I wouldn't be picking him, I have to admit I am not a huge Ballance fan.
Given we know that the order will be
Cook, Hales, Compton, Roooot, Taylor, Stokes, Bairstow, Ali, Broad, Anderson and another quick, likely to be footitt. The only thing we can to is keep our fingers crossed.
England have tried attacking opening bats and a multi dimensional players at 3 and it hasn't worked to many times 3 down for less than 40 a solid base paves the way for the shot makers they shouldnt have to bat on the 1st morning of a test after all test matches should last 5 days so you need players who can bat all day and then some more.
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Until England get a long term partner for Cook (Jason Roy) id continue to bat Root below three, England still quite criminal to throw an early wicket away and in some cases it would make Root an opener batting him at three.
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England have tried attacking opening bats and a multi dimensional players at 3 and it hasn't worked to many times 3 down for less than 40 a solid base paves the way for the shot makers they shouldnt have to bat on the 1st morning of a test after all test matches should last 5 days so you need players who can bat all day and then some more.
When?
Trescothic was the last aggressive opening bat with Vaughan at three. Otherwise since Strauss we have seen little or nothing other than block the crap out of it batting from the top three which has put massive pressure on the rest of the order.
Carberry was picked to add some urgency, but ended up fire fighting an inspired Aussie team.
The opening batsmen must put the opposition under pressure, not allow the opposition bowlers to just bowl with no fear.
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Absolutely agree! Cook/Hales/Compton could be an excellent top three if Hales and Compton settle nicely into the team, Hales isn't gonna come off 100% of the time we'll be off to a great start and Compton is certainly capable of digging in if there's an early wicket or playing more aggressively if there's been a big opening stand.
Question marks over Bairstow and Ali, but the rest of the probable first test lineup definitely has the potential for a very exciting test team. Fingers crossed Footit bowls well, he's certainly looked a class above county level when I've seen him over the past couple of seasons.
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Cook Hales Compton do look an excellent top 3 providing Hales can last against the new ball think he would be better at batting at 3 and let Cook and Compton do what they do best against Steyn and co.
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we have tried some attacking players at the top recently, so England do know we need a free scoring player to compliment Cook.
Lyth scores freely for Yorkshire, and tried to do the same during the summer but was found out by some quality bowling, but he may come again(I hope so)
So England do know hence Hales to open and Compton I think will def play and slot in at 3. Myself I think Hales is a one day player but at least the bloke deserves a chance in the tests.
If you are going back to Tresco Buzz we were blessed when he opened for us and it's a bit unrealistic to presume we get someone as good as him for a while.
Interestingly Bayliss seems to say different things on different days and is now saying Buttler could be back for the Boxing Day test...which would be very harsh or Bairstow-presuming we only play one of Buttler and Bairstow as Taylor is going to play against SA.Previously Bayliss said Bairstow ''deserves to have a run now' what a run of one test match?
I reckon Balance will be the reserve and we go Cook,Hales,Compton,root,Taylor.....
someone put on here a while back(might of been edge) does anyone think Bairstow is going to get shafted and Buttler straight back in......
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Ballance is and will be a very good player for England.
Agree. I am far less sure that Hales will cut it as a aTest opener. And is Compton really a better player than he was three or four years ago?
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Haven't the selectors already said that Bairstow will keep?
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Buttler has had a shocker with the bat but the guy has breathtaking talent. His ton in the last one dayer was almost beyond belief
England have and will invest in him long term.
I think they want Buttler in that position and Bairstow is just 'filling in' . Of the two Buttler is a more natural keeper....and his keeping is actually improving.
Tough call I think between them
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Buttler has had a shocker with the bat but the guy has breathtaking talent. His ton in the last one dayer was almost beyond belief
England have and will invest in him long term.
I think they want Buttler in that position and Bairstow is just 'filling in' . Of the two Buttler is a more natural keeper....and his keeping is actually improving.
Tough call I think between them
Once agsin, I agree eith your sentiments. I wss just stating what I thought was fact.
Bsirstow is a better batsman than Compton. As in Moeen Ali. Ali could have made a good no 5. Thing is, he'll never get the chance now.
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Once agsin, I agree eith your sentiments. I wss just stating what I thought was fact.
Bsirstow is a better batsman than Compton. As in Moeen Ali. Ali could have made a good no 5. Thing is, he'll never get the chance now.
Psshhhh Bairstow is in no way a better bat than Compton, and Ali is in no way a top 6 test bat - he didn't end up at 8 because of all the amazing runs he'd been scoring at 6!
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Psshhhh Bairstow is in no way a better bat than Compton, and Ali is in no way a top 6 test bat - he didn't end up at 8 because of all the amazing runs he'd been scoring at 6!
I wholeheartedly stand by my first statement. Perhaps not my second. It would have been a far better way of getting two 'spinners' in the side though.
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Once agsin, I agree eith your sentiments. I wss just stating what I thought was fact.
Bsirstow is a better batsman than Compton. As in Moeen Ali. Ali could have made a good no 5. Thing is, he'll never get the chance now.
Compton is a far better and technical batsman than Bairstow he also knows how to play straight and Ali is a No 8 or 9
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I should point out that eveyone on here thought Adam Lyth was a better bat than Compton at the start of last summer. And Sam Robson the summer before that...
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Compton is a far better and technical batsman than Bairstow he also knows how to play straight and Ali is a No 8 or 9
Well, we might as well play Gareth Batty then.
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it's all about opinions Bats and you got yours.
I think myself Compton is a very good player and there's no comparison with Bairstow-who is a (very good) thumper. Compton technically and mentally is equipped to bat high up.
There's a big difference batting top 3 and middle order...
Ali is an not capable of batting in top order,good player again....., but really you need something different to bat up top.First up you need to play the quick stuff.
I'd bet everything I have Ali will not bat higher than 6 or 7 in an England shirt again...unless he happen to be playing Bangladesh or Zimbabwe...
:) :)
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No. 1 or no. 9. Easy mistake to make!
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it's all about opinions Bats and you got yours.
I think myself Compton is a very good player and there's no comparison with Bairstow-who is a (very good) thumper. Compton technically and mentally is equipped to bat high up.
There's a big difference batting top 3 and middle order...
Ali is an not capable of batting in top order,good player again....., but really you need something different to bat up top.First up you need to play the quick stuff.
I'd bet everything I have Ali will not bat higher than 6 or 7 in an England shirt again...unless he happen to be playing Bangladesh or Zimbabwe...
:) :)
I wasn't suggesting Bairstow batted at 3. In fact, I wasn't necessarily even suggesting he was in the side.
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I have always thought that Compton has the technique to cope in the top 3.
And Ali is 6-8 in my book. Very good number 8!
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I agree that Ali will not bat in the top five for England again.
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Ali's right role is as the spinner(who also can get runs down the order)
think Swann,Giles,Embury,Croft......go back as far as you want. Ok Panesar could not bat...
England think he is the best spinner so he gets in. If you want my opinion(!) between Ali,Rashid and Patel I don't know who is the best.
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We know the Eng batting order is going to be
Cook, Hales, Compton, Root, Taylor, Stokes, Bairstow (Buttler), Ali, Broad, Anderson, Footitt (Woakes)
Does anyone else think that it would be more balanced if the order was:
Cook, Compton, Root, Hales, Taylor, Stokes, Bairstow (Buttler), Ali, Broad, Anderson, Footitt (Woakes)
Ideally i would have an attacking opening batsman - but I just think Hales would be better served batting lower down the order than opening against Steyn and Morkel...
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Gareth Batty is a better bowler. Again, I'm not saying I'd pick him.
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Why is everyone assuming Compton will play? Did I miss an announcement?
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Depends who and where your playing.
But Ali Patel have more control and will go for less runs than Rashid in a tie an end up situation.
On a 5 day raging turning, Rashid is more likely to take wickets.
As for batting, Patel and Ali are more classed as batsmen, ali is better to set up a win when England are dominate, but Rashid vs shah in the 2nd innings played and picked the opposite spinner like top order batsmen couldn't, and would do a much better job in tiring an end up and keeping the opposition out there and working(which is test cricket).
Patel would be the between, do both kind of batsmen.
As we are in South Africa against the worlds no1, id expect we'd need a spinner to tie an end up, and bat for long periods to frustrate the opposition.
So I'd play Patel over Ali every time.
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Why is everyone assuming Compton will play? Did I miss an announcement?
Obviously the selectors have started to listen to us now.....DEH!
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Why is everyone assuming Compton will play? Did I miss an announcement?
I'm with you on this, reckon he's merely there to be back up if hales fails drastically in the first two tests.
My xi for test 1 is.
Cook
Hales
Taylor
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Patel
Plunkett
Broad
Anderson.
But reckon England will have Ali for Patel and maybe footit for Plunkett.
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Obviously the selectors have started to listen to us now.....DEH!
haha
they are not going to take a senior player and not play him. He's going to play, if Bell went then maybe not but there's no Ian Bell.We need some experience on this tour. It's gonna be tough!
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haha
they are not going to take a senior player and not play him. He's going to play, if Bell went then maybe not but there's no Ian Bell.We need some experience on this tour. It's gonna be tough!
Ballance has more Test experience (and runs) than Compton.
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Ballance has more Test experience (and runs) than Compton.
good point he has......but again is he a top 3 batsman with his technique?
he bats either 5 or 6 for Yorkshire......
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He's not wrong, ballance has played 6 more games, scored 700 more runs, more fifties, more hundreds, and has a 50% better average.
Compton is senior only in age, not experience.
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I like Ballance but like others have said I think he'd need to bat at 5. In my mind Taylor is Englands long term no.3 don't know if anyone else agrees but that's my opinion on the batting order long term:
1. Cook
2. Hales
3. Taylor
4. Root
5. Ballance
6. Stokes
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good point he has......but again is he a top 3 batsman with his technique?
he bats either 5 or 6 for Yorkshire......
We'd crossed that hurdle. The World Cup fiasco threw him off course.
I don't think Nick Compton has the finely tuned technique that you think he has.
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I like Ballance but like others have said I think he'd need to bat at 5. In my mind Taylor is Englands long term no.3 don't know if anyone else agrees but that's my opinion on the batting order long term:
1. Cook
2. Hales
3. Taylor
4. Root
5. Ballance
6. Stokes
Not a bad shout.
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I think you guys should read this
http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-africa-v-england-2015-16/content/story/938997.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-africa-v-england-2015-16/content/story/938997.html)
which explains why Nick Compton will play and the last paragraph of this:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/nov/19/ian-bell-batsman-england (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/nov/19/ian-bell-batsman-england)
Bell’s boots are large ones to fill, although he was rarely at his best at three. There could be a chance for Ballance at five but hearing anecdotally he has done nothing to address the technical difficulty that sees him play from the crease even on the front foot does not inspire confidence.
which explains why Ballance should not play (should not have been picked in my view)
Taylor will be an excellent 5 for England and he should be given a chance to bed in there first rather than making him bat 3 at this point.
Following the "inside cricket" brigade on twitter tells you who will play in the games/who goes on the tours pretty early - i.e. Selvey, Newman, Etheridge and Brenkley.
Personally I abhor a load about what these guys harp on about - but they get the leaks first.
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Taylor will be an excellent 5 for England and he should be given a chance to bed in there first rather than making him bat 3 at this point.
Not a bad shout.
In my opinion it's what things should start to look like going forward. Taylor and Root could be swapped at 3 & 4 down to personal preference I suppose. @Buzz I wasn't meaning for this tour as such (I think Compton may well bat at 3) more that eventually that is what, in my opinion, England's batting line up should be :)
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I should point out that eveyone on here thought Adam Lyth was a better bat than Compton at the start of last summer. And Sam Robson the summer before that...
Not quite bats some of us stated Comptoon was hard done by left out for the wrong reasons
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Not quite bats some of us stated Comptoon was hard done by left out for the wrong reasons
yep, got discarded a bit quick.Rumours about he's an intense and not the easiest character to deal with. Well if you read Buzz's article about it explains a bit more.
Not all players respond to one style of management, this guy is a proper batsman and does deserve another chance.
I've always thought myself(i'm an opener) youre best technically correct batsmen bat in the top order,and you need a bit of bottle and determination too
I think that applies to our club cricket and test cricket-same principle. The guys who can really put bat to ball go in the middle.
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Seen a lot of Woakes at Edgebaston and for me he is not good enough to be considered as test class.
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yep, got discarded a bit quick.Rumours about he's an intense and not the easiest character to deal with. Well if you read Buzz's article about it explains a bit more.
Not all players respond to one style of management, this guy is a proper batsman and does deserve another chance.
I've always thought myself(i'm an opener) youre best technically correct batsmen bat in the top order,and you need a bit of bottle and determination too
I think that applies to our club cricket and test cricket-same principle. The guys who can really put bat to ball go in the middle.
Also not many players who can put bat to ball like to have to bat without a start from the openers IE opening bowlers rested little or no shine on the ball and softer no longer whising past there nose runs on the board.
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Don't know where all the noise about Taylor at 3 is coming from, ok he did well against Aus but he never even batted there for Leicestershire, always been at 4 or 5, where he's a natural fit. Let him get settled at 5. Root's too valuable at 4 to move, leading to Compton being selected to bat 3.
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Don't know where all the noise about Taylor at 3 is coming from, ok he did well against Aus but he never even batted there for Leicestershire, always been at 4 or 5, where he's a natural fit. Let him get settled at 5. Root's too valuable at 4 to move, leading to Compton being selected to bat 3.
It's purely my noise haha, I don't even have a reason for it, in my head it just seems right, I wouldn't move him yet though, I just meant long term.
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It's purely my noise haha, I don't even have a reason for it, in my head it just seems right, I wouldn't move him yet though, I just meant long term.
Haha it's not just you though mate, Michael Vaughan among others has been banging on about it for a while! BBC have been throwing out some pretty poor comment over the past year or so to be honest.
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Michael Vaughan has, for sure. Mind you, he himself became a decent Test no.3 on the back of a hunch.
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Michael Vaughan has gone down a bit in my estimation recently, he's become the sports commentating equivalent of a tabloid newspaper, full of sensationalist, intentionally controversial garbage.
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Michael Vaughan has gone down a bit in my estimation recently, he's become the sports commentating equivalent of a tabloid newspaper, full of sensationalist, intentionally controversial garbage.
Only a bit? Only recently?
"So let's hear your BIG opinion, Michael..."
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Only a bit? Only recently?
"So let's hear your BIG opinion, Michael..."
Fair comment. Since finishing his playing career then, is that a bit more specific :D
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Fair comment. Since finishing his playing career then, is that a bit more specific :D
More specific, and more in line with my thinking.
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More specific, and more in line with my thinking.
I aim to please.
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MV is still dining out on 2005. Has very little of interest to say he even said Jimmy should be dropped in UAE as the wickets don't suit him. JA was a leading wicket taker and bowled superbly.
Still when the bails were taken off at the Oval he was the captain that wrenched the urn back after a hundred years of hurt(!!)
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MV brilliant Captain stuck it up the Aussies
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Still when the bails were taken off at the Oval he was the captain that wrenched the urn back after a hundred years of hurt(!!)
Think you need to brush up on your history.
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Think you need to brush up on your history.
I've sat thru copius series thrashings at the hands of the enemy including one -1994-95 tour- I was actually at the grounds in Sydney and Melbourne(passed out in a toilet and some Aussie girl slapped me back into life in the gents god bless the Australian women)
So a bit of exaggeration but the 80's and 90's were SO PAINFUL it just seemed like hundreds of years until we actually won anything.
then of course we had 2005. I don't mind admitting I cried when that South African umpire removed the bails.
did you Bats? did you have just a little bit of water in the eye? did you??
:) :)
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I've sat thru copius series thrashings at the hands of the enemy including one -1994-95 tour- I was actually at the grounds in Sydney and Melbourne(passed out in a toilet and some Aussie girl slapped me back into life in the gents god bless the Australian women)
So a bit of exaggeration but the 80's and 90's were SO PAINFUL it just seemed like hundreds of years until we actually won anything.
then of course we had 2005. I don't mind admitting I cried when that South African umpire removed the bails.
did you Bats? did you have just a little bit of water in the eye? did you??
:) :)
2005 was cricket's 1990. It seemed good at the time, but in the long run was actually a bit of a disaster.
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2005 was cricket's 1990. It seemed good at the time, but in the long run was actually a bit of a disaster.
Yes for the Aussies.
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A few of my thoughts for the SA series
Personally I hope Compton does open and hope he scores well. In the last 3 years he is the only one who in my mind looks worthy of the opening position for Engkand alongside Cook. England's destructive batting is the middle/lower order even done to Broad/wakes/rash id down at 8/9 even lower depending on side selected as Mark Wood is no idiot with the willow. Stats also show he and Cook scored the most runs together and he made 2 good international test centuries and I agree it's not a dynamic free scoring opener we need (we have loads to choose from, from 4 to 10 it's a solid start 80-100 for none at lunch kind of opening pair.
Secondly Bairstow has to keep in SA series he has been mucked about for 3/4 years by England and as amazing as Butler ODI knock was the other day he at present is not suited to Test batting. And as we saw in UAE his keeping is not yet perfected which I accept neither is Bairstow. But Bairstow deserves a full series and Butler to regain is confidence in the Big bash or what ever and then see how he starts the LV season and see how Bairstow fairs when given the series and backing for a whole season.
Our bowling is fine and possibly even on par if not slightly stronger than SA but they hold the upper cards of Amla and AB so our bowlers will have to bring A game
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It would be farcical if Bairstow doesn't keep in SA, he surely has done enough to earn a FULL series to prove himself ?
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I don't agree that our bowling is quite as good as SA. But it is pretty decent but would be better if we had a swann bowling! I still think Ali is a fair spin option in tests as long as he bowls consistently!
But we are weaker all round that SA so will really have to bat well, bowl well and STOP DROPPING CATCHES!!! Drop AB and he'll punish us badly!
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Cook and Compton opening have the best chance of giving England the start they need instead of 3 out before lunch and SA inroads into the middle order in the afternoon.
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If Compton plays he'll bat at 3 (whether that's the right or wrong spot) the management have already said that Hales will get first chance to open with Cook. Unless they just meant in the warm up games but then Moeen didn't do much in the UAE warm ups and they still stuck with him through the tests, once they've got an idea in their heads they tend to stick with it rightly or wrongly and it seems that Hales opening is this winters new idea.
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some Aussie girl slapped me back into life in the gents god bless the Australian women)
What was the Aussie woman doing in the gents?
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What was the Aussie woman doing in the gents'?
Yeah @ppccopener what WAS an Aussie Woman doing in the gents?!
You sly dog you ;)
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I loved Australia, let's just say the parts I were in were a bit rough in the bars.All the women were drinking pints, or what they call scooners(about 3/4 of a pint glass)
there were women in the gents loos which I thought a bit odd but they didn't.
I must of fell over after a day at the MCG in 100 degree heat and nothing to eat in the dav and passed out after downing beer too quick. When I woke up a girl has her legs astride by neck slapping me around the face.
I bought her a pint and said thank you.
:)
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When I woke up a girl has her legs astride by neck slapping me around the face.
We have to pay good money for that up here!
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You see how quickly people get bored of Nick Compton?
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Rather be bored with Compton at the crease than watch Steyn and Co rip out Englands middle order with the new ball.
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if you asked the England bowlers who do they want up top, someone who can whack a quick 35 at a run a ball or someone who potentially could bat most of the day in hot conditions admittedly at a far slower pace, what would they say?
Cook may not be universally liked but he gives the bowlers a rest when he is in form.
This is going to be tough cricket in SA it's not a 35 over knock about.
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I love Alistair Cook. I did at the beginning of last summer when people on here were packing him off to county cricket.
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I like how this is 13 pages long a month before the tour has even started, good work chaps
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Weight of runs never bores me. Mediocrity does.
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Weight of runs never bores me. Mediocrity does.
Thing is these "mediocre" players aren't given a fair chance.
2 series at most, then disposed of if they don't average 100! Anyone given a go is under added presure/scrutiny having seen the production line of openeners before them.
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Check the numbers. Compton vs. Ballance? Or me vs. you?
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Check the numbers. Compton vs. Ballance? Or me vs. you?
Compton
9 tests, 17 innings, 1 50, 2 100's. 479 runs at 31.93
Ballance
15 tests, 27 innings, 6 50's, 4 100's. 1194 runs at 47.76
Me
0 tests. Rest n/a
You
You'll have to get back to me on that?
So, what was I looking at?
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Trouble with Balance is that his weaknesses got found out and exposed. That's not necessarily a problem, happens to almost everyone in international cricket sooner or later, and the best players who are gonna have long careers work on it, maybe change a few things, and overcome the problem. See Cook, Tendulkar, etc etc. Balance is no doubt a serious batsman, but he's said he won't be changing anything. Might as well have a sign on his back with instructions on how to get him out.
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Trouble with Balance is that his weaknesses got found out and exposed. That's not necessarily a problem, happens to almost everyone in international cricket sooner or later, and the best players who are gonna have long careers work on it, maybe change a few things, and overcome the problem. See Cook, Tendulkar, etc etc. Balance is no doubt a serious batsman, but he's said he won't be changing anything. Might as well have a sign on his back with instructions on how to get him out.
yes...a bit of an unusual situation with Balance, he averages just under fifty, won't change his method after being found out by high class bowling and is sticking with the same technique.
I can't work out whether he is a mentally tough individual determined not to go running off to a coach or someone in denial about technical faults who is hampering himself.
Every batsman has faults and if you fix one another one might come from no-where.Either way,the bloke is a quality player and if he gets on the field anytime soon will be judged on runs. Someone said it's not how it's how many...
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Compton
9 tests, 17 innings, 1 50, 2 100's. 479 runs at 31.93
Ballance
15 tests, 27 innings, 6 50's, 4 100's. 1194 runs at 47.76
Me
0 tests. Rest n/a
You
You'll have to get back to me on that?
So, what was I looking at?
Just checked, john pincent hasn't played a test either.
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Compton s/b a shoe in just on the basis that we aren't meeitng our SA playing quota since Strauss, KP and Prior left the scene.
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Compton s/b a shoe in just on the basis that we aren't meeitng our SA playing quota since Strauss, KP and Prior left the scene.
Well in that case:
Roy
Robson
Compton
Ballance
Morgan
Stokes
Wessels
Jordan
Dockrell
Curran
Dernbach
The new commonwealth England XI
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Well in that case:
Roy
Robson
Compton
Ballance
Morgan
Stokes
Wessels
Jordan
Dockrell
Curran
Dernbach
The new commonwealth England XI
surely you should have both Currans in there
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surely you should have both Currans in there
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Younger one doesn't qualify, born here.
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cant believe you have Dernbach in,there MUST be some alternative :)
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Ha would have to be Meaker or Rankin I think! Rankin's back off to Ireland though, and Meaker seems to have gone awol over the past couple of seasons.
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Dernbach, hahaha.
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Dockrell plays for Ireland, not England!!
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Trouble with Balance is that his weaknesses got found out and exposed. That's not necessarily a problem, happens to almost everyone in international cricket sooner or later, and the best players who are gonna have long careers work on it, maybe change a few things, and overcome the problem. See Cook, Tendulkar, etc etc. Balance is no doubt a serious batsman, but he's said he won't be changing anything. Might as well have a sign on his back with instructions on how to get him out.
Tough one - the problem he experienced was that his tendency to hang back deep in the crease left him vulnerable to a high class left arm quick pitching the ball up around off stump. He might well think that, hold on, there are maybe three or four of those in world cricket (Boult, Starc, Wahab, Johnson pre-retirement) and he never seemed to have the same problem when he faced slightly lesser bowlers (Junaid, Wagner, McClenaghan, Parnell). His argument would go look, when I'm in a bit better nick, this won't be an issue and I don't wanna throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Is he right? Time will tell. But...
I said at the time that he was an odd choice to bat first wicket down and I stick by that. When he comes back in to the side - and lets be clear, he is way too high class a player not to at some point - he should bat four or five as he has always done in county cricket. Doing so, he's that bit less vulnerable anyway and is doing the job he grew up doing.
Should he be in the squad/side at the moment? I'd say he's luckier even than Compton. He might have been just a bit unlucky to be dropped when he was, but it had to happen sooner or later, and he did not do that much back at Yorkshire. You'd have thought they'd have set him a more demanding target to earn his spot back - three or four first class tons, say - so that he came back in top nick rather than spending a winter drinks waiting.
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Compton
9 tests, 17 innings, 1 50, 2 100's. 479 runs at 31.93
Ballance
15 tests, 27 innings, 6 50's, 4 100's. 1194 runs at 47.76
Me
0 tests. Rest n/a
You
You'll have to get back to me on that?
So, what was I looking at?
Erm, you said weight of posts?
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Meaker seems to have gone awol over the past couple of seasons.
He was in charge of the jumble sale on the last day of the season at The Oval.
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He was in charge of the jumble sale on the last day of the season at The Oval.
Believe it or not I didn't mean he'd actually disappeared... Just not been playing a lot of cricket.
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Tough one - the problem he experienced was that his tendency to hang back deep in the crease left him vulnerable to a high class left arm quick pitching the ball up around off stump. He might well think that, hold on, there are maybe three or four of those in world cricket (Boult, Starc, Wahab, Johnson pre-retirement) and he never seemed to have the same problem when he faced slightly lesser bowlers (Junaid, Wagner, McClenaghan, Parnell). His argument would go look, when I'm in a bit better nick, this won't be an issue and I don't wanna throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Is he right? Time will tell. But...
I said at the time that he was an odd choice to bat first wicket down and I stick by that. When he comes back in to the side - and lets be clear, he is way too high class a player not to at some point - he should bat four or five as he has always done in county cricket. Doing so, he's that bit less vulnerable anyway and is doing the job he grew up doing.
Should he be in the squad/side at the moment? I'd say he's luckier even than Compton. He might have been just a bit unlucky to be dropped when he was, but it had to happen sooner or later, and he did not do that much back at Yorkshire. You'd have thought they'd have set him a more demanding target to earn his spot back - three or four first class tons, say - so that he came back in top nick rather than spending a winter drinks waiting.
That's true on the top lefty front, but the lack of runs in county cricket where he was scoring boatloads before does imply that other bowlers have got his number as well sadly. Hopefully he can adjust and come back, the guy is clearly a serious runmaker. Maybe he's in the squad with a slight view to keeping an eye on him.
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That's true on the top lefty front, but the lack of runs in county cricket where he was scoring boatloads before does imply that other bowlers have got his number as well sadly. Hopefully he can adjust and come back, the guy is clearly a serious runmaker. Maybe he's in the squad with a slight view to keeping an eye on him.
Hmmm...I wouldn't go that far. He may not have reached his previous stellar heights but he still made nearly 50 at 36 (which was not bad after making 18 in his first four knocks!) and 300 at 43 in the One Dayers- I think this is symptomatic of recovering confidence rather than people having his number.
Still think its six months too early for him to come back in.
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Hmmm...I wouldn't go that far. He may not have reached his previous stellar heights but he still made nearly 50 at 36 (which was not bad after making 18 in his first four knocks!) and 300 at 43 in the One Dayers- I think this is symptomatic of recovering confidence rather than people having his number.
Still think its six months too early for him to come back in.
Yeah wouldn't say it for sure as I only saw one knock of his on TV, but it's a long way below his career numbers. Personally I hope he makes plenty of runs, but that Taylor makes even more in the tests to keep him out!
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Believe it or not I didn't mean he'd actually disappeared... Just not been playing a lot of cricket.
Believe it or not, I did not actually believe that you actually believed that he had.
I was making a 'how the mighty have fallen' kind of point. Fairly humorously, I thought.
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Erm, you said weight of posts?
I never mentioned posts, I said about "mediocre" players not being given a chance to prove themselves.
But if you insist on comparing weight of post:
Ballance - none I'm aware of
Compton - none I'm aware of
So Ballance has better stats at test level and the same weight of posts. What's your point? ???
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No, you never ever mentioned weight of posts. Or modified anything. ;)
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All I modified was my borderline dyslexic spelling (which i normally spot when I'm quoted or I read back a post later).
I'm still curious what your point was regarding Compton vs Ballance. Could you please be so kind as to elaborate?
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I was drawing your attention to the fact that Ballance had more Test runs than Compton.
Re. posts: As you you changed my 'weight of runs never bores me' comment to 'weight of posts never bores me' when (mis)quoting me, I was drawing attention to the fact that, in a similar amount of time, you have posted on here about seven times as often as I have. You have since covered your tracks in a sneaky attempt to avoid looking like a fool.
Grow up.
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715 more test runs in 10 more innings.
Given an extended run in the side Compton, may have made up that difference (but we'll never know...)
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I was drawing your attention to the fact that Ballance had more Test runs than Compton.
Re. posts: As you you changed my 'weight of runs never bores me' comment to 'weight of posts never bores me' when (mis)quoting me, I was drawing attention to the fact that, in a similar amount of time, you have posted on here about seven times as often as I have. You have since covered your tracks in a sneaky attempt to avoid looking like a fool.
Grow up.
Over the top. Far to harsh.
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Over the top. Far to harsh.
I'll admit that I am a class A bellend at times, Batty clearly doesn't like me, but I have thick skin (and a fat belly) so he's entitled to his own opinion of me.
I will continue to post on here, interact in a civil manner with other members and share my thoughts. I may even post at 7 times the rate of others still if you're lucky!
I may need to "grow up" but I'm happy to draw a line in the sand here and move on (if @Bats_Entertainment is willing to do the same, great).
Directly at you now Mr Bats - I'd even offer to have a sit down and a beer to prove I have no issue with you mate. However I have no idea where you are based so this may be logistically impossible. As a good will gesture I will PayPal you the funds for a pint if you want to take up my offer. I can say no fairer than that :)
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I'll admit that I am a class A bellend at times, Batty clearly doesn't like me, but I have thick skin (and a fat belly) so he's entitled to his own opinion of me.
I will continue to post on here, interact in a civil manner with other members and share my thoughts. I may even post at 7 times the rate of others still if you're lucky!
I may need to "grow up" but I'm happy to draw a line in the sand here and move on (if @Bats_Entertainment is willing to do the same, great).
Directly at you now Mr Bats - I'd even offer to have a sit down and a beer to prove I have no issue with you mate. However I have no idea where you are based so this may be logistically impossible. As a good will gesture I will PayPal you the funds for a pint if you want to take up my offer. I can say no fairer than that :)
great offer that it must be nearly Xmas. I'll have a pint if there's some handouts going round :)
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I also like beer.......just saying.
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Morkel looks like he's torn a hamstring, would be a massive blow to south africa if he doesn't recover in time for this series.
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Morkel looks like he's torn a hamstring, would be a massive blow to south africa if he doesn't recover in time for this series.
Yep, not quite Mcgrath treading on a ball before Edgbaston but he's a big part of their attack.
I quite fancy us to get a result against the world's best team actually and I've not had that pint yet that walking wicket is handling out.
Anyone else actually think we can draw or win?
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Yep, not quite Mcgrath treading on a ball before Edgbaston but he's a big part of their attack.
I quite fancy us to get a result against the world's best team actually and I've not had that pint yet that walking wicket is handling out.
Anyone else actually think we can draw or win?
I thin we CAN but I'm not 100% sure we WILL haha, we have a very good young side I think, it's consistency we lack. We've got probably 4 players capable of pretty much deciding the outcome of a test match single handedly particularly Stokes who can do it with either bat or ball but he's still a bit of a daisy isn't he, some daisy does, some daisy doesn't.
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I don't think SA are as strong a they're cracked up to be - yes they have AB and Amla, but they're very reliant on them, Du Plessis seems an unlikely no3 and Duminy has never quite nailed test cricket, and the rest of their top 7 are pretty inexperienced. Steyn's nearing the end and Morkel is a good test bowler rather than a huge threat. England have their own problems of course but should be a good contest.
Stokes needs to find a bit of consistency with the bat ideally, hopefully more runs from the top order will help with that, but with the ball he's been outstanding over the past year if you watch his spells rather than read the figures at the end of play. So many catches dropped off his bowling is Compton any good at second slip ha? Think Stokes is now good enough that he could be selected purely as a bowler, when the batting fires more often he'll win us a lot of tests.
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I don't think SA are as strong a they're cracked up to be - yes they have AB and Amla, but they're very reliant on them, Du Plessis seems an unlikely no3 and Duminy has never quite nailed test cricket, and the rest of their top 7 are pretty inexperienced. Steyn's nearing the end and Morkel is a good test bowler rather than a huge threat. England have their own problems of course but should be a good contest.
Stokes needs to find a bit of consistency with the bat ideally, hopefully more runs from the top order will help with that, but with the ball he's been outstanding over the past year if you watch his spells rather than read the figures at the end of play. So many catches dropped off his bowling is Compton any good at second slip ha? Think Stokes is now good enough that he could be selected purely as a bowler, when the batting fires more often he'll win us a lot of tests.
I'm a huge Stokes fan, (hate saying this but) like Flintoff, stats don't show you just how good he really is. You're probably right about the top order setting him a platform too, he can be utterly destructive with the bat when he gets going.
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I'm a huge Stokes fan, (hate saying this but) like Flintoff, stats don't show you just how good he really is. You're probably right about the top order setting him a platform too, he can be utterly destructive with the bat when he gets going.
Likewise, a game change. He can take a 5fer very quickly or smash a ton, just the type of player the oppo are wary of.
Also @WalkingWicket37, you've offended me on various occasions I will gladly accept several pints by way of apology ;)
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Likewise, a game change. He can take a 5fer very quickly or smash a ton, just the type of player the oppo are wary of.
Also @WalkingWicket37, you've offended me on various occasions I will gladly accept several pints by way of apology ;)
Exactly, skippers must hate teams who have a Stokes type player in the opposing team as there's no planning for them, if it's their day they'll win the test match by themselves.
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Vernon philander has been ruled out of the first two tests due to an ankle injury.
He rolled his ankle playing football warming up for a test in India.
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SA aren't the team they were, England should be looking to best them really given this. Anything less than a win (only care about tests ) and eng really need to re think their side
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really Adi? Bit harsh.
SA have, as I've noted elsewhere, questions over their openers, keeper and back up seamer plus the problems caused by their quota system.
England will have two established batsmen in their top seven, unless Stokes wins his fitness battle. They have no spinner worthy of the name in the squad and questions over their back up bowling.
Oh, and SA have AB De Villiers. In a series of sides in transition, that plus home advantage makes them slight favourites I'd say.
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SA aren't the team they were, England should be looking to best them really given this. Anything less than a win (only care about tests ) and eng really need to re think their side
(we) can't rethink the side Pro we are rebuilding it?
that doesn't make any sense........
I do think we have a chance of getting a result on the SA series thou,we will have to play well that's for sure and the wicketkeepers position is a bit messy but the basis of the side is solid.
Compton coming in I reckon will be good for England,he's more of a traditional type player in amounst a lot of stokeplayers
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Questions on their openers ?? They are utter pants
Amla is out of form
Ab is ab
Faf is stuck in slog white ball mode and out of form
Philander out
Steyn might play but he won't be fit and firing and is declining anyway
Morkal alone isn't a threat
The rest are decidedly average, the fact they are calling for rousaux and de cock in their test team shows that they lack batting.
England have an in form cook and root, Compton will provide actual batting and Taylor too.. Anderson, broad at the least will out bowl morkal and then I assume plunkett will out perform radebe or whoever they play. Our keeper is as poor as theirs batting wise, as is our spin.
So yeah, on balance I'd say it's England's to lose is time. Ab is good but he can't do it totally alone
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Plunket isn't in the test squad.
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Plunkett got dropped for Jordan adi
With that kind of thinking from the England camp, SA are definately favourites
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South Africa's form is being blown way out of proportion. Whilst Elgar struggled in India, on the whole he has done pretty well at Test level. The other opener is a lottery at present.
Amla, de Villiers and du Plessis are the three world class batsmen in their middle order.
Duminy is a decent batting all rounder at 6, or he could be replaced by Roussow whom contrary to views on here is a pretty fine player(he has a FC 300 and that's no mean feat in South African conditions).
De Kock will probably return as wicket keeper and he's another good young player.
Steyn is in decline? Based on what? Steyn, Morkel, Rabada, Abbott and de Lange aren't too shabby as a pool of fast bowlers.
I doubt SA will select a spinner as Duminy does a decent job.
Losing 1 series badly in foreign conditions in nearly a decade is hardly a benchmark for a home series.
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England have an in form cook and root, Compton will provide actual batting and Taylor too.. Anderson, broad at the least will out bowl morkal and then I assume plunkett will out perform radebe or whoever they play. Our keeper is as poor as theirs batting wise, as is our spin.
Plunkett has been inexplicably dropped and Radebe is a retired footballer... :D
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Losing 1 series badly in foreign conditions in nearly a decade is hardly a benchmark for a home series.
Exactly, just wait until Amla and du Plessis get back to the nice bouncy green tops at home, and AB out of form? Lol.
Steyn and Morkel are still a gun partnership, and really, Steyn on the decline? His test bowling average over the last 12 months is lower than his career average. No doubt Broad and Anderson will be a handful, but Steyn is in a class of his own.
De Kock rubbish? His batting average is higher than Bairstow's and Buttler's... Apart from Cook and Root the England batsmen are either not fully tested, not up to the grade or out of form.
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I suspect the Saffers will prove to be a very stiff test, despite the disparaging comments on here. However, I do expect it to be very close, and I think England have every chance of winning. I see England lining up like this -
Cook
Hales
Compton
Root
Taylor
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Broad
Anderson
Footit
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Reading many of the comments on here England will walk over the Proteas during their tour over here. Can't wait to watch this series! Think the experts on here might be proved wrong.
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South Africa squad: Hashim Amla (capt), AB de Villiers (wk), Kyle Abbott, Temba Bavuma, JP Duminy, Faf du Plessis, Dean Elgar, Morne Morkel, Dane Piedt, Kagiso Rabada, Rilee Rossouw, Dale Steyn, Stiaan van Zyl
South Africa has announced their squad for the first two Tests. Big news is Dane Vilas has been axed and AB de Villiers will don that keeping gloves for the first time in 2 years in the Test arena.
Other news is both Imran Tahir and Simon Harmer have also been discarded.
Rilee Roussow returns after recovering from injury and could be competing with van Zyl for a batting spot.
Dale Steyn has also recovered from his groin injury.
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There was talk, featuring loose quotes, of Graeme Smith coming out of retirement...
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Well Vernon is out for the first two, for me he hasn't been as effective in the last couple of years since his destructive start to Test cricket but still I think he would have bothered England with that nagging line and length approach he has.
http://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/12346/10093467/vernon-philander-ruled-out-of-first-two-tests-against-england (http://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/12346/10093467/vernon-philander-ruled-out-of-first-two-tests-against-england)
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I hope that I am proved wrong, but facing SA in their own back yard is never going to be easy!!
SA are capable of playing average cricket (as are we!!) and fair to say that Amla and possibly a few others are not on the best form.
But they are also capable of playing incredible cricket, and in a team that contains Amla, AB and Steyn, anything is possible!
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ABD to double up as wicket keeper as well ... Amla choices can't get any better than this. Practically they have opened up a slot for an extra batsman at no 7 position.
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ABD to double up as wicket keeper as well ... Amla choices can't get any better than this. Practically they have opened up a slot for an extra batsman at no 7 position.
And the chance for AB's back to go POP!
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Finn added to the England squad, hope this doesn't mean Footit won't get a chance in the first test.
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i think we are going to play Footit providing he looks ok in nets/warm ups with Finn maybe a bit later on
but enough about bowling :), uptil last week Compton looked a cert to take Bells place, but lots of press about Balance coming back in now
how do we reckon is going to bat 3 now we know Hales is def going to open??
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i think we are going to play Footit providing he looks ok in nets/warm ups with Finn maybe a bit later on
but enough about bowling :), uptil last week Compton looked a cert to take Bells place, but lots of press about Balance coming back in now
how do we reckon is going to bat 3 now we know Hales is def going to open??
Think it will be Balance as he has test experience more recently than Compton, not sure there is much in it between them for me
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Pretty sure the test team was virtually announced by Bayliss in one of the press conferences.
Cook, Hales, Compton, Roooooooot, Taylor, Stokes, Bairstow, Ali, Broad, Footitt, Anderson.
I think Ballance has been included so Bayliss can get a look at him. I don't see him starting.
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He certainly shouldn't - there would have been no point dropping him if he does (though he does play for Yorkshire, which more or less guarantees stupid treatment from the selectors!)
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Pretty sure the test team was virtually announced by Bayliss in one of the press conferences.
Cook, Hales, Compton, Roooooooot, Taylor, Stokes, Bairstow, Ali, Broad, Footitt, Anderson.
I think Ballance has been included so Bayliss can get a look at him. I don't see him starting.
I think this will be the line up for the first test too and rightly so probably. Although I'm still not convinced that Ali is better than Rashid as a test player if he's gonna be a frontline spinner and bat 8 but that's another discussion entirely and one that is completely moot as Rashid isn't in the squad.
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I think this will be the line up for the first test too and rightly so probably. Although I'm still not convinced that Ali is better than Rashid as a test player if he's gonna be a frontline spinner and bat 8 but that's another discussion entirely and one that is completely moot as Rashid isn't in the squad.
it's a tough call for the selectors if you have to choose only one out of Rashid and Ali to play in a test. you could well say 'neither thanks'.
Got to be honest I think we should go back a bit for a while and not pick one. Root can bowl a few if needed. I know that's not very forward thinking but if Steve Finn is a better bowler then why not pick him instead? or....if you want another batsman pick Compton or Balance together rather than one or the other.
Ali is a decent cricketer, Rashid has a lot of potential but can either cut it at Test level for this tour.....on these tracks is spin really going to play enough of a role?
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it's a tough call for the selectors if you have to choose only one out of Rashid and Ali to play in a test. you could well say 'neither thanks'.
Got to be honest I think we should go back a bit for a while and not pick one. Root can bowl a few if needed. I know that's not very forward thinking but if Steve Finn is a better bowler then why not pick him instead? or....if you want another batsman pick Compton or Balance together rather than one or the other.
Ali is a decent cricketer, Rashid has a lot of potential but can either cut it at Test level for this tour.....on these tracks is spin really going to play enough of a role?
It's a fair point, Rashid might be a bit of a luxury in SA but I really do think he has the potential to rip through teams which I just don't see Ali doing. Don't get me wrong Ali is a good cricketer but he does seem to get a lot of his wickets through people thinking he's garbage and trying to whack him (see D.Warner during the Ashes!).
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It's a fair point, Rashid might be a bit of a luxury in SA but I really do think he has the potential to rip through teams which I just don't see Ali doing. Don't get me wrong Ali is a good cricketer but he does seem to get a lot of his wickets through people thinking he's garbage and trying to whack him (see D.Warner during the Ashes!).
There is a phrase to sum up your last sentence...
**** takes wickets
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Going to all five days in Durban, can't wait!
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Durban and Cape Town for me #buzzin
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Fancy a beer?!
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Only one!!!! No problem
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Tour's started well then... England 10/2
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Wonder what odds I'd get in England wanting a new opener to partner cook for the first test next summer
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Wonder what odds I'd get in England wanting a new opener to partner cook for the first test next summer
If we are judging off one warm up innings, then technically hales will be looking for a new partner as cook scored less and lasted less balls. #onlyasgoodasyourlastinnings
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If we are judging off one warm up innings, then technically hales will be looking for a new partner as cook scored less and lasted less balls. #onlyasgoodasyourlastinnings
Personally England should have stuck with Lyth as last summer will have done him more good than harm
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Wonder what odds I'd get in England wanting a new opener to partner cook for the first test next summer
IF you can find a bookies to take that bet, I'd like to place £50 that Hales won't be avg'ing more than 35 by the end of 2017 in test cricket. ONe day player, no matter how talented he his, you can't just erase how he's been trained which is to go after the ball. FIne on flat tracks but as soon as it moves he'll be scuppered.
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If we are judging off one warm up innings, then technically hales will be looking for a new partner as cook scored less and lasted less balls. #onlyasgoodasyourlastinnings
HOwever, if they've decided on Hales he needs to be given at least 2-3 full tours. Poor guys can't be chopped and changed
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Root gone for 28 of 26
Taylor and Compton need to steady this ship.
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What kit is Compton using? :D
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What kit is Compton using? :D
WOuld he score more using a UK made bat?
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What kit is Compton using? :D
Grays it looks like
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What kit is Compton using? :D
(http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag349/adicundy/A5ED63D6-82F3-4E2E-8C7D-887DBFB8982B_zps4pmmtoeu.jpg) (http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/adicundy/media/A5ED63D6-82F3-4E2E-8C7D-887DBFB8982B_zps4pmmtoeu.jpg.html)
Saw this on the ECB Twitter feed. Although I'm sure he was using M&H in a recent video.
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Saw this on the ECB Twitter feed. Although I'm sure he was using M&H in a recent video.
[/quote]
I saw this too but was more surprised with the old Masuri lid rather than his gn kit
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IF you can find a bookies to take that bet, I'd like to place £50 that Hales won't be avg'ing more than 35 by the end of 2017 in test cricket. ONe day player, no matter how talented he his, you can't just erase how he's been trained which is to go after the ball. FIne on flat tracks but as soon as it moves he'll be scuppered.
I work for Ladbrokes, I think that qualifies me to open a book for you! Can't promise I can pay you your winnings if it happens.....
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I work for Ladbrokes, I think that qualifies me to open a book for you! Can't promise I can pay you your winnings if it happens.....
WIll your company take that bet?? odds? fancy some easy money now I've got a new contracting job trippling my take home pay :) :) :)
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I can have a look tomorrow when I'm in! We take bets on all sorts!!
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I can have a look tomorrow when I'm in! We take bets on all sorts!!
PM me what you find out. Defo worth a punt because i just don't see him doing well in test cricket (flat tracks will help him though which could scupper me)
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He who should never have been dropped has his 50 up
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WIll your company take that bet?? odds? fancy some easy money now I've got a new contracting job trippling my take home pay :) :) :)
I imagine short, what have inexperienced openers averages for England over the last 3-4 years? I'd be guessing at less than evens for under 35.
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anyone got a link to todays game live?? I fancy watching while doing redhat
James Taylor (rhb) 51* 66 8 0 77.27 11 (10b)
Nick Compton (rhb) 58* 119 9 0 48.73 19 (33b)
titch 50 up
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Compton gone for 58.. LBPlumb. que a collapse
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That's right Eeyore "we're all dooooomed"!
116 partnership between these two - the anti-collapse.
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Titch <3
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Compton gone for 58.. LBPlumb. que a collapse
Lol.
Anyway titch to a ton and stokes on 77. Going well here despite the poor start.
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And boom. Stokes to a faster than a run a ball hundred. May the collapse continue......
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maybe I should join the bandwagon that believe Hales to be a saviour.. Jos to be the next world superstar.. COok to be hte greatest captain ever, Stokes to be a world class number 6 all rounder.. moeen to be a brilliant spinner then???
Jesus, disagree with you guys and you are hung drawn and quartered. I think I'll just not bother then if we have to just blindly believe that because they are picked they are awesome. Old ball, crap attack, tired. Fair play stokes has cashed in.. you really think he'd do this against a decent attack? last time I checked he kept failing barring the odd flash.
meh, sod it. NOt worth even bothering anymore if all we are allowed to say is 'woo, ECB are great' 'woo, STokes is world class' 'woo, Buttler is so talented' 'woo, Hales will save us'.
I quit
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anyone got a link to todays game live?? I fancy watching while doing redhat
James Taylor (rhb) 51* 66 8 0 77.27 11 (10b)
Nick Compton (rhb) 58* 119 9 0 48.73 19 (33b)
titch 50 up
I don't have a link to live coverage but there are some video highlights on the England Cricket Twitter account
Morning session: https://twitter.com/englandcricket/status/676715368631549952
Afternoon session: https://twitter.com/englandcricket/status/676753620386230272
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The drop off Compton at 3rdish slip was excellent haha.
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maybe I should join the bandwagon that believe Hales to be a saviour.. Jos to be the next world superstar.. COok to be hte greatest captain ever, Stokes to be a world class number 6 all rounder.. moeen to be a brilliant spinner then???
Jesus, disagree with you guys and you are hung drawn and quartered. I think I'll just not bother then if we have to just blindly believe that because they are picked they are awesome. Old ball, crap attack, tired. Fair play stokes has cashed in.. you really think he'd do this against a decent attack? last time I checked he kept failing barring the odd flash.
meh, sod it. NOt worth even bothering anymore if all we are allowed to say is 'woo, ECB are great' 'woo, STokes is world class' 'woo, Buttler is so talented' 'woo, Hales will save us'.
I quit
I think it's your relentless, blind positivity that grates with people.
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STOKESY LIVES
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Benji boy <3
158 and retired, who else had a link to that number...
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Not sure on how good the opposition are but it's good to see Compton, Taylor and Stokes make good starts to the tour. From selection I'd suggest it's between Footitt and Woakes for the third seamer spot, have an inkling England will go 'safe' and pick Woakes but would love to see the variety of a left armer in a five man attack!
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England declared over night.
Invitational xi currently 67 for 5.
Now what's more important? Enforce the follow on and let bowlers get more overs? Or bat agin so hales and cook get some middle time?
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May as well bat, the bowlers aren't exactly proving anything by skittling a bunch of 21 yr olds - the whole game is a waste of time tbh!
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Did these guys have to get time off school to play?
Bat again, it's easier to bowl yourself into form in the nets than to replicate time in the middle for batsman. And blitzing this lot twice wont really help the bowlers. Go out with a big lead and let Alex Hales do Alex Hales things!
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3 day game so they'll enforce the follow-on I'd imagine, then bat again tomorrow.
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if they enforce the follow on they might not get a chance to bat again. More likely is that they bowl the side out then Cook, Hales, Moeen have a bit of time at the crease and then they bowl all day tomorrow regardless of how many wickets they take.
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Such a farce these warm up games now, you don't really achieve anything by them. Not sure how facing a few school kids is going to prepare you for Steyn and Morkel.
Sad thing is there are a lot of very good players in SA who struggle to play franchise cricket because of the quota system, surely playing against some of those would be better prep than this nonsense.
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I think the home boards try to put out weak oppos so tourists get no practice
when in aus they make sure no quick bowlers in warm up games and in india no decent spinners so tourists don't get practice
im sure we do the same
its not good but its basically become and outdoor net these games
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on a lighter note Nick 'I've got two bat sponsors' Compton was asked if is settling back into the England dressing room ok and he replied he has been very much misunderstood in the past but is getting on like a house on fire with Stuart Broad and they spend hours chatting in the bar about themselves.
:)
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ICC probably need to step in, tour are so short these days that teams really need their one warm up game to be worth something, unless they just want strong home nations.
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Arent these games more about helping get used to home conditions rather than providing a serious preparation opportunity for the visitors?
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Alex hales doing Alex hales type things.
His on 4 with a strike rate of 10.... Yes TEN. @ProCricketer1982 will be ecstatic. #digin
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Alex hales doing Alex hales type things.
His on 4 with a strike rate of 10.... Yes TEN. @ProCricketer1982 will be ecstatic. #digin
Hits a 4 and gets out 2 balls later. Serves him right for scoring too quickly.
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Forum members curse!!! He's gone.
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Doesn't bode overly well for me that Hales has been out bowled twice - as an opener I was always taught that's a big no no.
If we're going down the 'Warner' route with opening bats, i get playing without fear, it should be encouraged, but Warner can defend a ball on his stumps...
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Is anyone else thinking that the order against SA may end up being..
Cook, Compton, Balance, Roooooot, Taylor, Stokes, etc?
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Is there any more warm up games??
Is he fails in them(if there is some) or in the first test he will struggle to get going, if only there was a tour in the uae where he could have got some test opening experience.......
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Cook has followed. Lbw in both innings now.
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Is anyone else thinking that the order against SA may end up being..
Cook, Compton, Balance, Roooooot, Taylor, Stokes, etc?
They've got to invest the time in him, give him the same chance they gave to Lyth et al. They have given themselves contingency though in picking Compton and Hales, with Ballance filling in wherever if required - doesn't exactly show complete faith in any of them, but on the other hand you're covering all bases, which is what you want in a squad. depends if your glass is half full, half empty, or (for some) who's stolen my half empty glass...
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Doesn't bode overly well for me that Hales has been out bowled twice - as an opener I was always taught that's a big no no.
If we're going down the 'Warner' route with opening bats, i get playing without fear, it should be encouraged, but Warner can defend a ball on his stumps...
Just seen the reply, was a bouncer up at his chest, he's got up and above it and played it down, and it bounced on to his stumps.
In fact have the link
https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/677134373225910273
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Is anyone else thinking that the order against SA may end up being..
Cook, Compton, Balance, Roooooot, Taylor, Stokes, etc?
Not Really....but with England who knows? seriously even we would not dump Balance in a Test without a warm up game, and if Balance plays in the next game we would be panicking.
I reckon along with most others Millichamp Nick C is penciled in at 3 as a bit of insurance if Hales don't come off to block the bejesus out if it(love it!)
Personally I don't think Hales has the class to open in tests and wwe should of stuck with Lyth......but Hales is in there now and got to be given a chance.
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Comptons gone!
Scored more runs but faced less balls than hales.
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@ppccopener
Ballance currently at the crease.
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@ppccopener
Ballance currently at the crease.
? oh........ :)
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Just seen the reply, was a bouncer up at his chest, he's got up and above it and played it down, and it bounced on to his stumps.
In fact have the link
https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/677134373225910273
Ah, hadn't seen it I must admit, sounds unlucky then. Let's hope he has some better luck in the next game...
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England's innings highlights on this tweet
https://twitter.com/englandcricket/status/677173679940218881
Compton charging and floating to mid off. I thought he was the dig in saviour of England??
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This looks like a rather pointless, meandering innings now. why not declare and let the 4 main pacemen have a good run out. even if they skittle them for 120, it means each seamer will have got at least another 10-12 overs under his belt in match conditions.
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True to form, a big call for Hales to open, he has a low score and everyone (the twitteratti) jump on his back. Give the guy a chance.
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So they're 9 down with Stokes and Taylor batting. Unless they're resting the bowlers (which after only 57 overs seems silly) I don't understand why they're bothering.
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190 all out. This pitch turned into a minefield or was we trying to heave everything.
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Anyone seen the dismissals? Don't think Ballance did himself any favours, looked like he was bounced out, top of the bat lob to cover. 2 leg side strangles (don't think Bairstow was happy with his) and one smashed to midwicket low down.
Don't think the bowlers really got them out, I'd hope to see more application in the Test arena.
Also spotted that Moeen has twice used a bat without stickers. I guess he's just waiting on new ones? And Joe Root using a Masuri again
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWatbO1WUAE3haF.jpg) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWaacHoWwAAd9wE.jpg)
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Maybe Kookaburra have got fed up of Moeen using bats that obviously aren't Kooks, TON stamps and grips all over the place, and not renewed his contract. Guessing an Asian brand looking for English sales will sign him up pretty quickly if so.
Root is an utter helmet whore, he'll be in something different by the English summer.
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So South Africa a are 136 all out. Finn 4 for(will he be fully fit for Boxing Day?) and stokes with 3.
Hales and cook at the crease.
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Bad light stops play.
England 64 for 0. Hales getting sometime in the middle. Gets to start again in he morning.
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Cook nearing his century.
Hales fell after getting past 50.
Compton out in the 30's - Is he the answer to the number 3 slot?
Footit or Finn to start in the boxing day test?
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Cook looking in ominous form.
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Much more like it this, looks a fairly genuine "A" side, de Lange had real pace last time I saw him and Maharaj is a good slow left arm.
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Don't suppose there is any radio commentary on this match?
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Cook and Root tons, this tour = job done
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Lot of posts from the England cricket twitter with Alex Hales in training concentrating on leaving the ball... Maybe too much!
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As well as being ditched from the Test squad, Liam Plunkett misses out on the ODI and T20 squads.
Who's cat did he run over?
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Maybe he had a fling with bayliss's wife?
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Well, I guess it's preparation of some sort
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/22/12/2F911C4800000578-0-image-m-45_1450787439577.jpg)
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/22/12/2F9123C800000578-0-image-m-46_1450787452049.jpg)
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Also Cook needs another 220 runs to reach to 10,000, obviously the first by an Englishman, phenomenal when you think about it. Think he'll jump over Gavaskar who's on 10,122 and then maybe Steve Waugh (10,927) by the end of 2016
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Fairly details article building up to the first test on BBC Sport
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/35152816 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/35152816)
South Africa v England: Alex Hales set for debut in first Test
Nottinghamshire's Alex Hales is set to make his Test debut when England begin their four-match series against South Africa in Durban on Saturday.
Hales, 26, will be the eighth opener to partner Alastair Cook since 2012.
England paceman James Anderson has been ruled out with a calf injury, meaning one of Chris Woakes or Mark Footitt is likely to join Steven Finn in the XI.
South Africa are ranked number one in the world, but lost their last series in India 3-0.
An England victory by any scoreline would see South Africa lose top spot to India, while only a win will ensure captain Cook's men improve their ranking of sixth.
However, England have won only one series in South Africa since the Proteas were readmitted to Test cricket in 1991 and Cook's side have triumphed only once in their last 15 overseas Tests.
England's search for answers
England's search for answers
Alastair Cook and Andrew Strauss
Although England were Ashes winners four months ago, from the XI that played in the fifth Test against Australia, three have been dropped, two have been shifted around the order and two are injured.
The ankle injury to pace bowler Mark Wood is covered by the fit-again Finn, while either Woakes, Footitt or Chris Jordan will replace Anderson.
"It's a shame for Jimmy, but we've got some really good guys coming in to replace him," said Stuart Broad, who will lead the attack in Anderson's absence.
"Steven Finn was the standout bowler last week [against South Africa A, when he took six wickets]. The other guys have all put in performances throughout this tour. Whoever gets the nod on Christmas Day, it will be a nice Christmas present."
Meanwhile, spin bowler Moeen Ali will drop back down to number eight after covering as an opener against Pakistan, and Jonny Bairstow, who played in the Ashes as a specialist batsman, will retain the wicketkeeping gloves following the dropping of Jos Buttler midway through the Pakistan series.
James Taylor continues at number five, but there will be a new-look top three, with Nick Compton poised to play behind Hales and Cook in place of Ian Bell.
While Hales averages only 38 in first-class cricket, he is the only England batsman to have scored hundreds in Twenty20 and one-day internationals, and also made a half-century in the warm-up match against South Africa A.
However, England will face Dale Steyn and Morne Morkel - probably the world's best new-ball pair - on pace-friendly pitches with a top eight where none except Cook and Joe Root have played more than 20 Tests.
Problems for the Proteas
formidable South Africa side that went nine years and 30 Test series with only two defeats is now also in a state of transition.
Finding a replacement for all-rounder Jacques Kallis, who retired in 2013, was always likely to be difficult, but the Proteas have also struggled at the top of the order since former captain Graeme Smith quit the following year.
It was the batting which failed the Proteas in India, prompting Hashim Amla's side into a reshuffle of their own.
"Opening the batting is the most difficult job in Test cricket," Amla said. "Dean Elgar has been very good for us, and Stiaan van Zyl has got the full potential to be a great opener for us."
was a tough tour for the openers in India, but then again it was a tough tour for all the batters."
Most significantly, AB de Villiers has been asked to keep wicket in order to find space for another batsman.
De Villiers is ranked as the third best Test batsman in the world and Amla seventh, but England will be targeting the rest of a top seven that is either inexperienced or out of form.
The home side are boosted by Steyn's recovery from a groin injury, but Vernon Philander is out with an ankle problem.
"The way Dale has been bowling in the nets has been unbelievable," Amla said. "He's been the best bowler in the world for many years. We're really glad to have him back."
We've got history
England have visited South Africa four times since the Proteas returned to the international fold, with each tour proving memorable for a variety of reasons.
England's 1-0 defeat in 1995-96 was the tour in which Michael Atherton batted for nearly 11 hours to earn a draw in Johannesburg, while South Africa's 2-1 win four years later included the 'leather jacket Test', when disgraced former Proteas captain Hansie Cronje was paid to corruptly ensure that the fifth Test did not end in a draw.
In 2004-05, Michael Vaughan's England secured a 2-1 win that preceded their Ashes triumph, while the one-day leg of the trip saw Kevin Pietersen score three centuries despite abuse from the crowds in the country of his birth.
Six years ago, on England's most recent South Africa tour, they escaped with a 1-1 series draw after number 11 Graham Onions twice saw off the final over of the match to earn two draws
Analysis
BBC cricket correspondent Jonathan Agnew
"There's no question England are confident of pulling off their second unexpected success of the year, but they will have to bat better than they did while winning the Ashes.
"The batting is the battleground of the series, with South Africa's line-up losing a lot of confidence in their defeat in India, which resulted in both frontline spinners being dropped and AB de Villiers returning to keep wicket.
"England also came unstuck against Pakistan but both teams will prefer the conditions that await them in these four Tests.
"South Africa's pace attack will target Alex Hales, who has to prove he has the technique and temperament to cope with high-class new-ball bowling. If he fails, Nick Compton will move quickly from three to opener.
"The pace bowling of both teams will be challenging and exciting and it will be the batting line-up that deals with it the best that will ultimately prevail."
What they said
England coach Trevor Bayliss: "It's been a good 12 days that we've been here. It was good to see our top four guys score runs.
"To be successful in this series, the top four guys are going to have to play very well so it's good for them to spend some time in the middle leading up to this first Test.
"Everyone has scored some runs and taken some wickets so, preparation-wise, it's as good as we could have hoped for getting ready to play the number one team in the world."
Teams
South Africa (from): Hashim Amla (capt), AB de Villiers (wk), Kyle Abbott, Temba Bavuma, JP Duminy, Faf du Plessis, Dean Elgar, Morne Morkel, Dane Piedt, Kagiso Rabada, Rilee Rossouw, Dale Steyn, Stiaan van Zyl.
England (from): Alastair Cook (capt), Alex Hales, Nick Compton, Joe Root, James Taylor, Gary Ballance, Ben Stokes, Jonny Bairstow (wk), Jos Buttler (wk), Moeen Ali, Samit Patel, Chris Woakes, Chris Jordan, Stuart Broad, Steven Finn, James Anderson, Mark Footitt.
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Woakes confirmed to play tomorrow. Merry Christmas South Africa
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I'm questioning whether Alex Hales is cut out for test cricket.
Look at the state of his grip...
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb450/CPye061194/f3620e6b8dff5cd26954faa3cf16c437_zpsvbbzsgvr.jpg)
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Woakes confirmed to play tomorrow. Merry Christmas South Africa
don't understand this one at all - surely has to be Broad, Footitt, Finn, Stokes....
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Lose the toss and we're having a bat. This could be awful...
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don't understand this one at all - surely has to be Broad, Footitt, Finn, Stokes....
Think Woakes is considered our next closest type of bowler to Anderson whilst Footitt and Finn would be too similar to each other.
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Steyn, morkel and Abbott on a green one...good luck!
Don't see hales lasting long
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Least we bat long today, we may need it
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Oh ffs
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Steyn remover strikes and it's the big one!
Cook really needs to practice his tossing skills, lost a few recently
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Cook you muppet, well over to the new boys then. Guess Compton is going with GN then
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Oh Christ.... Haysman's on comms. Where's that mute button.
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Steyn's just tuned the eff in
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Cook really needs to practice his tossing skills, lost a few recently
This has always intrigued me. Isn't the toss supposed to be a "random event"?
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Cook you muppet, well over to the new boys then. Guess Compton is going with GN then
As has been mentioned elsewhere. His gn contract apparently ends on the 31st of dec and his millichamp one starts on the 1st.
So grays test 1
Millichamp test 2 onwards.
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Boxing Day is being ruined :(
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I hope the rain stops soon, if this carries on I'll be forced to get off the sofa and speak to my family :(
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Boxing Day is being ruined :(
Unless you're being dragged around the sales and the fact I'm not missing any cricket is the only saving grace!
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Coming back on!
Good to see hales matching his bat stickers with his ugly tattoos
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Kill me now
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Ffs Alex! >:(
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Everyone expected that shot from hales! It's not t20 cricket!
What a poor shot
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What a idiot. I know your an aggressive player, but your first test after a long rain delay, not a great idea against the No 1 bowler in the world tring to drive on the up.
Well over to you Jo Root again
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Was its great shot? No, definately one that needs to be left in the locker.
But.
Debut
Vs no1 bowler
After long rain delay after already getting a start.
It can happen, huge amount of pressure. Let's hope he learns for innings number 2
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Why exactly was Compton axed? Solid technique and good powers of concentration. Usually makes a good Test player. He's also born in South Africa which is usually ideal for you Poms 😂😂😂
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Everyone expected that shot from hales! It's not t20 cricket!
What a poor shot
That's just the way he plays I'm afraid. He's not my choice for test opener but once selected I think you've just got to let him play his own game. If/when he comes off, great, everyone will say what a breath of fresh air. When he doesn't, people are bound to comment on his technique and aggressive style.
Have to admit, that was a poor shot choice though!
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Hi guys im abroad on holiday..theres no tms commentary any more if tour outside the uk? Is that right..
What do we pay a licence fee for !!
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Why exactly was Compton axed? Solid technique and good powers of concentration. Usually makes a good Test player. He's also born in South Africa which is usually ideal for you Poms 😂😂😂
They seemed to think he scored too slowly from memory and with him and Cook being plodders they quickly got rid of him after a poor series against NZ at home (if i remember correctly). It was harsh but seemed to set the trend for treatment of opening partners.
Even more worryingly, i just agreed with everything you said ??? ??? ???
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Hi guys im abroad on holiday..theres no tms commentary any more if tour outside the uk? Is that right..
What do we pay a licence fee for !!
There is, I imagine because you are abroad you cant listen to the coverage.
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Hi guys im abroad on holiday..theres no tms commentary any more if tour outside the uk? Is that right..
What do we pay a licence fee for !!
Appears to be a rights issue http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peteroborne/100276258/has-the-bbc-lost-the-plot-why-cant-expats-listen-to-tms/ (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peteroborne/100276258/has-the-bbc-lost-the-plot-why-cant-expats-listen-to-tms/) although more likely cuts to funding for the BBC means they have had to scale back where possible
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Just caught a sight at the top of comptons bat handle and it appears he might be using MH already
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Why exactly was Compton axed? Solid technique and good powers of concentration. Usually makes a good Test player. He's also born in South Africa which is usually ideal for you Poms 😂😂😂
Anymore out there would take them all.
Would also like as many Aussie to
Oh and now Williamson is at it that too :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Anymore out there would take them all.
Would also like as many Aussie to
Oh and now Williamson is at it that too :D :D :D :D :D :D
Lad called Kevin Pietersen isn't all that shabby...
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Piedt snares Root first ball!
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Bad to worse for England now, even the club offie gets a wicket now, hope for Mooen I guess
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A wet pitch is always going to turn as warnie says...root clearly not expecting it to spin like that on day 1.
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I hope this does not put the curse on him but watching Compton is actually refreshing. A bloke aware of his strengths/ weaknesses and grafting his b****y a**e off to stay in and do right for his capbadge. Good luck to him on not the easiest day with rain breaks, etc. Others could learn a thing or two from his mental approach.
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I hope this does not put the curse on him but watching Compton is actually refreshing. A bloke aware of his strengths/ weaknesses and grafting his b****y a**e off to stay in and do right for his capbadge. Good luck to him on not the easiest day with rain breaks, etc. Others could learn a thing or two from his mental approach.
Unless you are playing on complete shirt fronts every tests you always need a couple of players prepared to do some hard work for the team.Compton knows his role,everything crossed he stays in
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Hi guys im abroad on holiday..theres no tms commentary any more if tour outside the uk? Is that right..
What do we pay a licence fee for !!
Definitely not right mate! Was just listening to tms in the car. Maybe you just can't get it abroad?
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Definitely not right mate! Was just listening to tms in the car. Maybe you just can't get it abroad?
[/quote
No only txt commentary on bbc def no sound.
The bbc prob spent that part of their budget on eastenders
Joke!!
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Definitely not right mate! Was just listening to tms in the car. Maybe you just can't get it abroad?
[/quote
No only txt commentary on bbc def no sound.
The bbc prob spent that part of their budget on eastenders
Joke!!
TMS is on in the UK, I promise!
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w158/eiwm/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_25575-Screenshot_20151226-13245775583423_zpsr34zco4l.png)
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Anyone see that SA short leg is wearing the shrey stem guard on the masuri?
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I love the James Taylor era
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I blame kp for shouting his mouth off about being too short... Sachin was the same height!!
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I blame kp for shouting his mouth off about being too short... Sachin was the same height!!
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Wasn't Sachin an inch shorter?
All blokes know an inch is huge
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Five foot 4,five foot 1, i dont matter thats 50 up for titch!
Well batted son..is it me or does this guy seem to get runs when we need them..
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Compton showed more application, fight and kahunas in this one innings, than bell has since 2013 ashes.
Taylor doing what everyone except the selectees has known he can do for a fair few years.
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Agreewith the bell comment but compton is only doing that now, taylor has been ready for test cricket for years!
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Representing short batsmen from all over! Taylor!
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Taylor shold have played 30+ tests by now, not 4! Got to say I like Compton at 3, hopefully he keeps performing and stays there.
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So overall, not a bad day after losing the toss. Great job from Compton and Taylor to consolidate the innings, showed tremendous amout of grit to dig in.
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don't understand this one at all - surely has to be Broad, Footitt, Finn, Stokes....
No nor me why Woakes wouldnt be suprised if he will be opening with Hales Soon
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Just finished watching highlights of day one. Steyn is certainly back with soaring confidence. Cook was looking a little uncomfortable at start and Steyn snapped him. Hales needs more patience, no point in chasing a ball pitched outside off-stump and heading towards towards the keeper. Still doesn't make him an unfit opener. Should be given more time and chances to learn the art of grafting runs in a test match.
Compton and Taylor played a more sensible innings. They have shown that the SA bowling attack can be kept under check. If Stokes bats sensibly and Compton marches toward his century then we are looking at a score of 350 in the first innings. I would call this a very good start by England against SA @ Durban.
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My view on today.
Lots of overs lost to rain. But you can still judge things.
South Africa won't be happy, 3 down for not a lot is what they wanted after winning the toss. But will en disappointed to only have taken one more wicket for the rest for the day.
After losing toss and being inserted. England will still be happy.
Yes they lost 3 quick wickets but
Cooks did bounce a tad.
Hales is new and needs to learn.
Root wasn't expecting that much turn ball 1 to a spinner.
But, England will be more than happy with the way Taylor and Compton subdued the South African attack, and had more overs been bowled, stokes may have cash in quick against a day in the field bowling attack.
Bring on tomorrow. See if stokes/bairstow can weather a fresh steyn. And if so, we should get a decent first innings total.
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A lot to do tomorrow but I think England will be the happier of the teams. Okay overs were lost but SA will have wanted more than 4 wickets in the day.
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Hales...not been in favour previously and am not now. At least Peanut waited long enough for a half way decent ball to get him out.
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Compton has shown today why he should be opening with cook
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I can only read the bbc txt as i pointed out earlier but anyone else think swanns comments a bit snotty towards compton?
What..was he not part of the clique first time round?
Or have i only got half the story
Boycott has written today he takes no notice of strike rate in tests..this is not t20
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Compton has shown today why he should be opening with cook
Compton is doing a good job right now at 1-down. Why would you want him to open ?
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Compton to Open with Cook to protect the nos 3 and 4 having to face the new ball
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Compton to Open with Cook to protect the nos 3 and 4 having to face the new ball
If Hales plays an aggressive brand of opening innings then the bowlers can lose confidence. Rest of the eng team can pile up on the bowlers and add more runs. I think that is what Hales should do and he is the perfect man for the job. Let him have a crack at SA for the entire series .. lets see then ...
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I know one thing, I bloody love Nick Compton.
So happy to see him doing well but makes me angry that they cut him off in the fashion that he did!
Plenty of us on here saying exactly that...you cant really argue with results under the old management,flower etc got us to number 1 in the world...but it seems this management style suits the players more.
You might also agree Cook is now out of the flower/strauss influence and is more his own man.
Whether Cook was ready back then to have a hands off coach instead of an in your face one i doubt anyone knows
But certain personalities will flourish more with this management than the last maybe.
Purely on results thou..flower/strauss was the most sucessful in recent memory.
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If Hales plays an aggressive brand of opening innings then the bowlers can lose confidence. Rest of the eng team can pile up on the bowlers and add more runs. I think that is what Hales should do and he is the perfect man for the job. Let him have a crack at SA for the entire series .. lets see then ...
But has Hales got the temperament and technique to open in tests awful shot to get out and played far to early in his innings
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Compton at 3 is a winner for me, anyone who's seen him bat in county cricket will know he's got the game to up the scoring rate when needed too, hopefully in time he'll be coming in after a big opening partnership and we can see that side for England. Prefer him at 3 to opening though.
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I saw the highlights. Taylor and Compton put the Cartman ("respect ma authorituh!") on SAF bowlers. They were hitting with such confidence and authority. Where were these two all these years?!
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But has Hales got the temperament and technique to open in tests awful shot to get out and played far to early in his innings
Temperament - Probably not, but i am hoping someone talks to him and get him to create a test match batting mode in his mindset.
Technique - I think he has a good technique. Probably good enough to survive in test match arena.
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And we slowly crack on. 350 odd would be nice.
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Taylor's aggressive approach was a pleasure to watch. Great batting.
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Also some of Compton's cover drives have been absolutely glorious. Picks out the bad ball, boom.
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Is NC the new Wall?
PS with his slightly coiffured appearance, is Steyn trying to look like Westley from the Princess Bride #80sthrowback #dodgy'tache
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Ah balls. Fair play to him though, saved the innings
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Excellent old fashioned Test innings from Compton. He absorbed all the pressure applied by South Africa. Deserved a 100 but maybe next time
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Temperament - Probably not, but i am hoping someone talks to him and get him to create a test match batting mode in his mindset.
Technique - I think he has a good technique. Probably good enough to survive in test match arena.
Look at David Warner. He wasn't particularly great looking to start with and improved to be a decent opening batsman.
There is definitely hope for Hales if he wants to learn.
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Can anyone at the ECB not see Moeen Ali isn't an international standard cricketer?
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Hopefully England don't throw these couple of good partnerships away, Ali gone without scoring straight after Compton,
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Collapse.
Is there reviews?
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Woakes first ball lbw good old collapse from England
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Wouldn't be England without a collapse
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Look at David Warner. He wasn't particularly great looking to start with and improved to be a decent opening batsman.
There is definitely hope for Hales if he wants to learn.
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Hales should be looking at someone like jayasuriya, not a Warner or a Sehwag. Like jayasuriya, Hales' wheelhouse is the leg side. Whereas Warner and Sehwag are more offside players.
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Can anyone at the ECB not see Moeen Ali isn't an international standard cricketer?
Apparently not, he's useless outside of limited overs matches, not enough footwork and streaky as hell.
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Woakes unlucky there to an extent! I thought that was going down leg and I reckon a lot of other umpires may have thought the same, but it was clipping fair enough and the ump called it right, but I reckon on many other days he wouldn't have been out.
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Too many bits and pieces players in England's lineup. Might get away with it against weaker sides but these South Africans are pretty decent. Stokes is too high at 6, Bairstow is high and miss. Ali and Woakes aren't Test cricketers.
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Can anyone at the ECB not see Moeen Ali isn't an international standard cricketer?
Quite a good delivery to get early up but I do agree he isn't test quality, hopefully this will be his last series and Rashid will be our No8 and spinner
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Quite a good delivery to get early up but I do agree he isn't test quality, hopefully this will be his last series and Rashid will be our No8 and spinner
Again Rashid hasn't shown he's all that capable either. Someone should put a rocket up Panesar's (No Swearing Please) and get him back to his best. That lad is a genuine world class spinner.
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Don't mind us selecting Ali as a bowler of he's the best we have, glad he's back where he belongs at 8 though!
Why has Woakes become the new England fan hate figure? He can pish 90mph, moves it both ways and averages 25 with the ball in division 1 first class! Don't moan about the fact that he's probably not quite good enough to be a specialist test batsman if he's at number 9. Got unlucky with that lbw as well.
Bashing needed from Broad and YJB here please.
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We are back. Time to drop Compton for going off script and actually getting stuck in. Now all England need to do is chase the ball round for two days.
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Again Rashid hasn't shown he's all that capable either. Someone should put a rocket up Panesar's (No Swearing Please) and get him back to his best. That lad is a genuine world class spinner.
Panesar is gone. You'd be better trying to fix up Swann.
Rashid could be good, with experience.
Ali can bat, might be a very good number 8, and if he worked at it, a 7 or 6. He doesn't really looked to have improved much though, which is why he'll always be questionable.
Both decent spinners, both with their faults.
At least the stickers on Stuart Broad's bat looks alright. A lot better than those bright coloured ones KP had.
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Bairstow must be infuriating player to coach. Gets plenty of starts at Test level, and can obviously bat a bit FC average is 46, but at Test level can't seem to kick on
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Bairstow must be infuriating player to coach. Gets plenty of starts at Test level, and can obviously bat a bit FC average is 46, but at Test level can't seem to kick on
I do agree, however it looked like he was trying to hit boundaries (albeit not very well) and got out today. He's lucky he wasn't about in the 90's as I imagine he'd have been another who was in and out of the team every few games
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Too many bits and pieces players in England's lineup. Might get away with it against weaker sides but these South Africans are pretty decent. Stokes is too high at 6, Bairstow is high and miss. Ali and Woakes aren't Test cricketers.
Absolutly correct
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Don't mind us selecting Ali as a bowler of he's the best we have, glad he's back where he belongs at 8 though!
Why has Woakes become the new England fan hate figure? He can pish 90mph, moves it both ways and averages 25 with the ball in division 1 first class! Don't moan about the fact that he's probably not quite good enough to be a specialist test batsman if he's at number 9. Got unlucky with that lbw as well.
Bashing needed from Broad and YJB here please.
Woakes is neither test class with bat or ball the new Jimmy Anderson the best joke i heard over Christmas.
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Woakes is neither test class with bat or ball the new Jimmy Anderson the best joke i heard over Christmas.
Let him play some test matches and let's see yet Scrooge, much better bowler than he's given credit for.
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Finn back in Slazenger gear. Have they Out bid oodworm or woodworm not bothering in 2016?
300 up
Not the morning we wanted, but these two annoying the South Africans is amusing.
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Let him play some test matches and let's see yet Scrooge, much better bowler than he's given credit for.
How many matches will England lose though before they realise he's not good enough.
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No one said Woakes is the 'new' Anderson. He is a perfectly decent seam bowler who deserves his opportunity in Jimmy's absence.
300 up for England, got to be happy with that having been stuck in and in being in bother after the first hour or so.
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South African batsmen must be bricking it watching the ball turn after their horror tour of India! Then again ali is the front line spinner
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The TMS live feed is not good for my blood pressure. Morons calling Compton a 'dinosaur' and unsuited to the modern test match game, as if there are a queue of Sehwag-like players ready to come in. Grittiest batting display I have seen for a long time, all credit to him
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Stopped reading those comments ages ago,people just type any old rubbish for a reaction.
Root and cook have carried our batting for 18 months and surely just two batters is not good enough.
Without Comptons 80 odd we would of been 150 all out because their bowlers would have their tails up
We got 300 thats not bad and they were in the field 100 overs-giving our bowlers decent rest
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The TMS live feed is not good for my blood pressure. Morons calling Compton a 'dinosaur' and unsuited to the modern test match game, as if there are a queue of Sehwag-like players ready to come in. Grittiest batting display I have seen for a long time, all credit to him
BBC sport texts is just a window into the dark miserable hearts of unhappy English cricket fans, no wonder public utterances from the players and ECB are so bland and the media so ready to take players apart. Sad but true!
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Look at David Warner. He wasn't particularly great looking to start with and improved to be a decent opening batsman.
There is definitely hope for Hales if he wants to learn.
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Agreed. If given sufficient time and chances, i think Hales can forge his own style of test batting.
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We are back. Time to drop Compton for going off script and actually getting stuck in. Now all England need to do is chase the ball round for two days.
Too early to start bashing Compton, don't you think ? This is first innings in the first test match of the series and only this guy has shown some resolve to spend time in the middle.
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STUART!
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Did that really just happen?
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I do agree, however it looked like he was trying to hit boundaries (albeit not very well) and got out today. He's lucky he wasn't about in the 90's as I imagine he'd have been another who was in and out of the team every few games
Bairstow and Stokes => Both were playing attacking cricket. Understandable if that their natural game but totally unwanted at the current scenario. England were sitting pretty at 200/4 or something. All they need to do is spend more time and gather runs slowly. There was no need to go for quick runs.
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Great start!
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Hit the top of off!
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Finn back in Slazenger gear. Have they Out bid oodworm or woodworm not bothering in 2016?
300 up
I'm sure Woodworm Have released a 2016 range so don't think they've given up.
Wasn't Finn with New Balance though?
Lad seems to change his sponsor on a regular basis
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Did that really just happen?
Eng had Cook going out for duck .. SA have Van Zyl out for a duck .. Eng on attack. Get Amla & ABD then the first innings lead is confirmed.
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Amla's nicked one! And they didn't review. Oh dear!
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I'm sure Woodworm Have released a 2016 range so don't think they've given up.
Wasn't Finn with New Balance though?
Lad seems to change his sponsor on a regular basis
Maybe he just loves his kit as much as we do!
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Amla's nicked one! And they didn't review. Oh dear!
Not much interest from the keeper though, I'm not sold.
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Amlas got away with one there
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Oh dear bairstow's spilled one! 2 chances already for amla
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Deary me. Beautifully built pressure, then Bairstow drops it, could be very costly. Not the easiest of chances though
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Welp
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Bad miss there from Bairstow! Full stretch but no foot movement!
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Amla's nicked one! And they didn't review. Oh dear!
Compton had one exactly the same early in his innings and it wasn't reviewed either
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Deary me. Beautifully built pressure, then Bairstow drops it, could be very costly. Not the easiest of chances though
I reckon that was regulation for a keeper, move your feet and you're in position to take it.
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BROAD IS LOVE BROAD IS LIFE
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Third time lucky for amla! Decent ball that! Amla looks woefully out of form.
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I notice they've now ditched snicko and are using Hawkeye's ultraedge instead.
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Alma out 3 times for 7, that'll do his confidence a lot of good!
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AB de Villiers is different class, players all struggling around him yet he gets of the mark in beautiful fashion. Undoubtedly the best player on the planet
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I notice they've now ditched snicko and are using Hawkeye's ultraedge instead.
Snicko comes packaged with hotspot and the SA broadcaster decided not to pay for that I believe.
Bairstow must be relieved! Shame for Woakes, bowling well isn't he ;)
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So the seamers are all over Elgar.... and they bring on Ali.
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That's out in any game no idea how a 3rd umpire can say not out
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That's out in any game no idea how a 3rd umpire can say not out
Evidently not seeing as all 3 umpires looking at the same TV footage decided otherwise.
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I'd have given that out but from stokes reaction I think they decided not to bother giving it out, also the stump mic is turned up way too much, heard Bairstow shout s**t when Mo was bowling
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Can't remember AB struggling against many seemers recently. He handled Johnson at his prime but Finn giving him a working over here
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Evidently not seeing as all 3 umpires looking at the same TV footage decided otherwise.
Anyone that has played cricket over a decent period of time knows that that catch was one of those that rolls up your fingers. Of course Stokes wasn't certain because he knows that it was touch and go as to if he got his fingers under it properly. However the head on camera shows it roll up his fingers. His fingers are bunched together so how can the ball have touched the ground? Just my opinion. If woakes is given out to a ball just tickling leg stump then for me that's a legitimate catch.
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Definitely out imo. What confused me was at no point were there camera pictures of the ball touching the ground! It was either in the air or Stoles' hands. Out.
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Anyone that has played cricket over a decent period of time knows that that catch was one of those that rolls up your fingers. Of course Stokes wasn't certain because he knows that it was touch and go as to if he got his fingers under it properly. However the head on camera shows it roll up his fingers. His fingers are bunched together so how can the ball have touched the ground? Just my opinion. If woakes is given out to a ball just tickling leg stump then for me that's a legitimate catch.
Well I've played for nearly 20 years, and I've seen 'catches' like that at an international level almost always turned down. If a player isn't even sure then it's a bit hard pressed for the umpires, after watching countless reviews where the moment of time you actually want to see is between camera frames. End of the day benefit of the doubt went to the batsmen, as it should have.
Anyway, I doubt we're going to change each others opinion.
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I'm sure Woodworm Have released a 2016 range so don't think they've given up.
Wasn't Finn with New Balance though?
Lad seems to change his sponsor on a regular basis
He was with slazenger during the summer used a mix of V12 and V800s when batting.
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So yeah, very even contest so far, proper test match cricket.
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And fair play to Bumble taking the piss out of his house being flooded
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Think Woakes is considered our next closest type of bowler to Anderson whilst Footitt and Finn would be too similar to each other.
Well I didn't dream it
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Well I've played for nearly 20 years, and I've seen 'catches' like that at an international level almost always turned down. If a player isn't even sure then it's a bit hard pressed for the umpires, after watching countless reviews where the moment of time you actually want to see is between camera frames. End of the day benefit of the doubt went to the batsmen, as it should have.
Anyway, I doubt we're going to change each others opinion.
Well I have played for 35 years and seen countless catches like that and the batsmen have walked in both professional cricket and amateur cricket. They took the fielders word. Now in the last 10 years or so players have become less honest but looking at the head on replay and having played cricket you can see that has carried. If you want to talk about benefit of the doubt for batsmen then why is a batsman out if it's flicking leg stump and NOT out if it's flicking leg stump. :-[ :-[
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Great nut from broad, carrying the attack brilliantly. I'm sure AB will be disappointed though, really no need to play at that
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MOEEN
We're on our way lads
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Elgar seemingly the key man now, dismiss him and England will have the upper hand.
On another note, why is longwave radio so crackly in a car?
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Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but are any freeview channels showing highlights of the test for the non-sky subscribers?
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On another note, why is longwave radio so crackly in a car?
Because it sounds better like that :-)
Need to get it on DAB
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Ok now from a South African's point of view ;)Great bowling from England bowlers!! SA under a bit of pressure after the loss of ABD...bit with Elgar grafting hard we with be able to make a decent total.He's trying to build a good platform for the next few batsman...And FAF's poor form continues :(
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Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but are any freeview channels showing highlights of the test for the non-sky subscribers?
Nope Channel 5 have the rights to home tests only. Away series' are shown by Sky only.
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Elgar seemingly the key man now, dismiss him and England will have the upper hand.
On another note, why is longwave radio so crackly in a car?
Elgar is key and JP is still waiting. Since its a home series we can't really be sure as to who would suddenly turn into a hero and play a match winning innings. To be sure they should knock out Elgar, JP and Kyle as well.
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Key early wicket this morning. Hopefully that'll get England pumped up and we can get a couple more before lunch.
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MO
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Titchyyyyyyyyy. Shoddy umpiring though, seemed fairly obvious it came off the bat first
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Elgar looks very comfortable and solid.
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Need to get Elgar to end SA resistance. He seems to be quite comfortable handling bowlers at home turf. Partnership is now close to 50 runs for the 8th wicket.
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New ball due shortly. Hopefully Broad can get the breakthrough with that.
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Never in doubt from Woakes there...
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Steyn skies one trying to cash in before the new ball.
Juggled before held by woakes.
Decent partnership by the South Africans there. And they definately needed it.
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And it's all over....
Eventually. Elgar almost making it to the shower before they call him back to check a no ball that was nowhere near!!
Lead of 89.
Hales time. See how he does in this innings.
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Excellent display from the bowlers, Broad and Moeen particularly impressive.
Perfect platform for Hales to play a Warner style third innings!
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Hopefully Hale's can take it quickly away from them. Gotta think anything towards or over 300 should hopefully be enough
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SA needs a new captain...bring Smith back for Tests?
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South Africans look shot against spin. The metal scars of the subcontinent are clearly still there for some of the batsman.
SA needs a new captain...bring Smith back for Tests?
Agree with that. Amla doesn't appear to be captaincy material, the team looks so low on confidence
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Unlucky for Steyn as he goes off with an injured shoulder mid over. Could this be defining for rest of the series?
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Dale off injured!? Not what SA needed when they are this far behind and need the best bowler in the World to fire and get them back in the match!
As much as I would like to see England win, I would rather it be with SA at decent strength!!!
Hope the injury is not serious and just needs a bit of treatment!!!!
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Dale off injured!? Not what SA needed when they are this far behind and need the best bowler in the World to fire and get them back in the match!
As much as I would like to see England win, I would rather it be with SA at decent strength!!!
Hope the injury is not serious and just needs a bit of treatment!!!!
Shoulder injuries for fast bowlers are rarely those which just require a bit of treatment unfortunately...
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Steyn is back on the pitch.
Cook falls to lbw again. Not much turn on that one, just enough. Good decision not to review.
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Shot from hales!
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Actual tweet from someone posted on the BBC live feed: : "England should open with Compton and Root. Replace Cook with James Vince at 4 and Bell at 3"
Where do they find these people?!
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Dales back running in. Shoulder injury can't be too serious.
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And he's back off after 3 balls. Stupid from the management allowing him to come back on
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And dales off again after 3 balls.
Throwing his sweatbands in anger as he leaves he field to.
Very strange for him to have another go.
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So stupid
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Poor captaincy for amla to allow steyn bowl. Good insight from smith in the comm box
Hales throws it away after a start. that blue tape on his helmet must annoy a few forum members ;)
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Dam it hales.
Only excuse is England had literally ground to a halt there.
Hopefully root can rotate and tick the score over.
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If he keeps playing shots like that some people are going to take some convincing that he's a test opener!
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Painful for me to say, but I've been really impressed with Broad's bowling, especially since 2013 when he copped a heap of abuse from local fans in Brisbane only to respond with a 6-for. Watching him early in the Saffers innings his line and length was McGrath-esque, no width, no short of overpitched balls, just frustrating stuff for batsmen. I really rate his bowling.
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South Africans ball tampering again? Odd to change a ball so early. The ball was reversing after 18 overs, odd that! Maybe faf's been on it again
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South Africans spilling chances, root and Compton both dropped
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Compton and Root too! Compton can be a pain to get out, as was proved in 1st innings.
And dropping Root can prove very expensive!!
58-2 looks very different to 58-4 when you already had a deficit from the 1st innings. This is not like the SA we are used to.
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Sorry it's you csnew. But this shows the fickle ness of both cricket supporters and commentators.
Shot from hales!
Hales throws it away after a start.
When it goes for six, boundary etc it's great, as soon as it fails, it's so poor, what was he thinking, not a test player etc.
Compton plays a reverse sweep at 15 of 56balls had he top edged it and got caught, would anyone be questioning Compromis test ability despite scoring less and facing less balls than hales today??
Double standards?
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Key thing for England is to bat as long as possible, grind down their bowlers as much as possible as I think there's only a 2 day break between tests.
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Key thing for England is to bat as long as possible, grind down their bowlers as much as possible as I think there's only a 2 day break between tests.
Very good point. Steyn looks To be struggling by going off a lot so they need to do this even more. The ball should start to soften up from here so they can take advantage of that too and get some runs on the board.
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Longevity of international cricketers not how it used to be due to the amount of cricket they play. One Day, Tests, T20, IPL etc. In addition, the amount of travelling they do, the body just doesn't have sufficient time to recover
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Compton to 31.
Although only into his second innings off his return, has he literally ended bell's test career in this one game?
Can we see a way back for bell and if so where?
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Compton to 31.
Although only into his second innings off his return, has he literally ended bell's test career in this one game?
Can we see a way back for bell and if so where?
Seeing as he retired from ODI cricket, he'd need a big season at county level accompanied by failures by Hales or Taylor. At his age he would need a Voges 2014-15-esque FC season. But I really doubt the ECB would backflip and go to an older bloke.
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That's the thing, if bell doesn't get back into the England side, I would put money on him scoring 1500 plus runs for Warwickshire next year.
And if he's scoring that many and England are struggling batting wise, be many calling for his return(probably the same People calling for him to be dropped)
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Roots bat looks soooo softly pressed!
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Don't think that was out, reviewed straight away too
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118 for Elgar, good job Deano!
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Painful for me to say, but I've been really impressed with Broad's bowling, especially since 2013 when he copped a heap of abuse from local fans in Brisbane only to respond with a 6-for. Watching him early in the Saffers innings his line and length was McGrath-esque, no width, no short of overpitched balls, just frustrating stuff for batsmen. I really rate his bowling.
Also with the absence of Jimmy Broad as shown again he can take responsibility as England's senior bowler as he did against the Aussies at Trent Bridge.
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118 for Elgar, good job Deano!
Where've you been?
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If he keeps playing shots like that some people are going to take some convincing that he's a test opener!
Including me.
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Roots bat looks soooo softly pressed!
Read this morning that Joe has used 21 bats in International matches during 2015.
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110k bowling!!
There's hope for me yet!ha
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Looks like the South Africans will recall Quinton de Kock for the second Test to ease the burden on AB's shoulders. Young de Kock has scored a century in the ongoing round of South Africa's FC season.
van Zyl, Duminy and Bavuma could be battling for two slots.
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Another one goes down! Look what happens when you pick a part-time keeper. I would be filthy if I was Morne, 3 great nuts that produce catches and they go down!
I think we'll be getting another apology for coarse language on the stump mike by Sky Sports
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Another drop by AB, another life for Compton
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Read this morning that Joe has used 21 bats in International matches during 2015.
If someone offered me the finest bats available for free I'd use plenty too!
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And finally they get him down leg side!!!
Compton is a huge improvement over Ballance and Bell so far, much better technique than the former.
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Another one goes down! Look what happens when you pick a part-time keeper. I would be filthy if I was Morne, 3 great nuts that produce catches and they go down!
I think we'll be getting another apology for coarse language on the stump mike by Sky Sports
AB is hardly a part time keeper, he's got a dickie back and shouldn't be forced into keeping.
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Morkel has really lead the attack well since Steyn's injury woes kicked in. Was outstanding in India and been outstanding in this match
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Is Root wearing pink NB gloves?
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They're definitely red on my tv
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Rooooooooooooooot
Gloves are yellow and red ones.
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Is Root wearing pink NB gloves?
I thought exactly the same.
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Looks like he has now changed gloves. Earlier he was wearing the same as the orange/black gloves but the orange was pink
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Dunno if it was the cameras but they did look rather pink.
I love Joe Root. We all love Joe Root. Root is love.
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Sat watching the test match and listening to the commentators discuss who should be dropped, who should come in and were. And who shouldn't but probably will as selectees keep doing it.......
Except it's the South Africans discussing there side, exactly how England's commentators have us for the last 18months.
They want Stephen cook opening and de kock at 7, maybe rousow to replace du plessis.
They reckon rousow will come in to open, which is not what they want as didn't work before.
They also seem very pessimistic about there chances in test two(already given up on this test)
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So the end of day 3 against the worlds no1 test side, and we have a lead of 261 with 7 second inning wickets remaining.
According to the forum
We have an opener that shouldn't be near test cricket.
A number 6 allrounder that's an limited overs hit and giggle player
A stumper that's not good enough with bat or gloves
A spinning allrounder that bowls pies and shouldn't even bat at 8.
And a bowler who shouldn't even be in the squad.
And yet at the end of day 3 against the worlds no1 test side, and we have a lead of 261 with 7 second inning wickets remaining.
What do we know about cricket eh???
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Christopher (and others) - I do not have Sky - how did Finn bowl? Some of the Cricinfo commentry said he bowled some tasty spells?
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I thought he bowled very well, he's never going to be the most economical bowler but definitely gave the SA batsmen a test
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Couldn't really have asked for a better day for England. I'd bat till there are 110 overs left in the game. England should be well ahead by that point and it'll give them 2 new balls if required.
No reason why this England team can't remain settled for a long time while it is possibly the beginning of the end of the cycle for SA team.
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I think they'll get to 400 odd around lunch and declare, give them a fair chunk of time to put them to the sword.
I guess they'll have a fair old shuffle for the second test, think it'd be stupid to have AB keeping again, just call up de Kock
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I'd look to bat until around lunchtime tomorrow, maybe just after and then look to get stuck into SA again. Need to make sure we give ourselves enough time to bowl them out. 350/360 lead will be plenty.
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350 doesn't push the opponent team to a defensive corner, however 400 would block their minds and ruin any thoughts of winning the test match. Eng should add around 120 ~ 150 runs and declare little bit after lunch. 400+ target would make SA go into a shell. Eng is definitely looking very strong right now ...
ABD must be relieved of keeping duties and he should be sent in to bat at No 3. Amla & Faf need to go in at lower order. This would give AB the platform to score some runs before running out of partners on the opposite end. SA must bring in a keeper - de Kock or Riley. One of them could open the innings with Elgar. They could even bring both of them into the line up to replace Bavuma & Van Zyl. If de kock and riley play an ODI style knock and contribute around 80 runs in total it would make a big difference to the current SA test team given that they haven't even thought of crossing 300 runs in the last 4 test matches.
Captaincy (No Swearing Please) from Amla to ABD might help as well. ABD seems to be leading SA well in ODI format, why not give him a chance to field the test team for a series ?
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De villiers- I'm to tired and need to lessen my workload.
Your idea, remove keeping and add captaincy?? Not sure that'll help.
SA commentators said they don't want rousow or de kock opening as it hasn't worked in passed. Either should be down the order and Stephen cook open.
Be interesting to see what changes are made. They'd need some injuries to bring people in though. You can't randomly call up for a series otherwise can you?
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They'd need some injuries to bring people in though. You can't randomly call up for a series otherwise can you?
Didn't England do that through the whole of the 90's. :-[
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According to the forum
We have an opener that shouldn't be near test cricket.
A number 6 allrounder that's an limited overs hit and giggle player
A stumper that's not good enough with bat or gloves
A spinning allrounder that bowls pies and shouldn't even bat at 8.
And a bowler who shouldn't even be in the squad.
And yet at the end of day 3 against the worlds no1 test side, and we have a lead of 261 with 7 second inning wickets remaining.
What do we know about cricket eh???
Not sure anyone has expressed that weight of opinion regarding Stokes. Of the others - Hales wouldn't be my pick but deserves a chance now he has been, Ali...seems to be the selectors man and whatever else you may think is a decent, likeable bloke, Bairstow would be great if he wasn't been treated like a 90s selectorial throwback. Woakes...nope, I'm still gonna say it - should be nowhere near.
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Christopher (and others) - I do not have Sky - how did Finn bowl? Some of the Cricinfo commentry said he bowled some tasty spells?
I have only been getting up for the afternoon and evening session. So haven't caught much of his bowling. Looked good in the little I saw. Nice bounce.
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Not sure anyone has expressed that weight of opinion regarding Stokes. Of the others - Hales wouldn't be my pick but deserves a chance now he has been, Ali...seems to be the selectors man and whatever else you may think is a decent, likeable bloke, Bairstow would be great if he wasn't been treated like a 90s selectorial throwback. Woakes...nope, I'm still gonna say it - should be nowhere near.
Not really my opinion, just off others.
Anyway this is what one said before he quit the Internet.
maybe I should join the bandwagon that believe Hales to be a saviour.. Jos to be the next world superstar.. COok to be hte greatest captain ever, Stokes to be a world class number 6 all rounder.. moeen to be a brilliant spinner then???
Jesus, disagree with you guys and you are hung drawn and quartered. I think I'll just not bother then if we have to just blindly believe that because they are picked they are awesome. Old ball, crap attack, tired. Fair play stokes has cashed in.. you really think he'd do this against a decent attack? last time I checked he kept failing barring the odd flash.
meh, sod it. NOt worth even bothering anymore if all we are allowed to say is 'woo, ECB are great' 'woo, STokes is world class' 'woo, Buttler is so talented' 'woo, Hales will save us'.
I quit
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Although I read it when it was 1st posted didn't think Adi had quit for good shame really has i thought he's posts were constructive.
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I've yet to see anyone think of what it is they actually don't like about Woakes... Good article by Dobell on it http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-africa-v-england-2015-16/content/story/955639.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-africa-v-england-2015-16/content/story/955639.html)
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I Think England have been very impressive so far in this match but I think the biggest problem South Africa got is the Titanic had a better captain ! Amla clueless.
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De villiers- I'm to tired and need to lessen my workload.
Your idea, remove keeping and add captaincy?? Not sure that'll help.
SA commentators said they don't want rousow or de kock opening as it hasn't worked in passed. Either should be down the order and Stephen cook open.
Be interesting to see what changes are made. They'd need some injuries to bring people in though. You can't randomly call up for a series otherwise can you?
SA team can experiment with ideas here. Amla is the ODI opener for SA. He can probably take the opening slot and lead the team as Cook does. Riley or De-kock could bat at no 5/6/7. The replacement players whom we are talking about need to just contribute 30~40 odd runs. Couple of such contributions would make SA reach 300. Bavuma & Van Zyl are not really contributing much and moreover losing a home series will be bigger headache for a team which stood strong at the top for so many years.
AB as a captain might not reduce his workload, but it will provide some space for the clueless captain - Amla. Indian tour seems to have really troubled Amla. He seems to be running through a bad patch in batting as well. If he can off-load the captaincy to AB or Faf for this series and re-discover his form it would help SA enormously.
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Is Root wearing pink NB gloves?
Root was wearing them this morning, definitely pink! He's just given first slip catching practise off Abbott, let's hope stokes picks up the run rate
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He's still obviously been consistent but I hope Root knocks off this trend of 70s/80s and not putting up tons
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Silly dismissal from stokes, already had taken one 4 from the over. A collapse here from England makes a very interesting finish to this game
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Another 50 for root not converted, comfortably England best batsmen but this is the difference between him and Smith and Williamson
Don't want to sound negative about him as he's propped up the middle order for a while now but as a fan I'm just wishing he'd convert a few more of those 50s into tons
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What happened to Simon Harmer? He was good
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How come Duminy hasn't bowled? Didn't he used to be their "all rounder"?
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How come Duminy hasn't bowled? Didn't he used to be their "all rounder"?
I was wondering the same, he often used to bowl didn't he?
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I've yet to see anyone think of what it is they actually don't like about Woakes... Good article by Dobell on it [url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-africa-v-england-2015-16/content/story/955639.html[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-africa-v-england-2015-16/content/story/955639.html[/url])
Well we could start by looking at his test matches bowling averages : 5 Matches 6 wickets at an Ave of 56.83
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YJB maiden test century and a lead of 400+ would make my day :)
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Why on Earth didn't Cook declare now?!?! Still stubborn
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This is baffling, wasting so much time
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I don't understand this obsession England has with batting on endlessly until a batsman reaches a milestone. Yes Bairstow would probably like a Test century, but the win comes before personal milestones.
Just look at Steven Smith, he was 70* overnight and could've got 100s in both innings in the match just completed Instead he declared.
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Although very very poor from England.
It's interesting that SA still have the old ball, and with one and a half days left, Amal is time wasting already.
South Africa shot and know a draw is all they can get and they need help doing it.
Surprise they didn't drop that to keep England out there.
Well batted jb though
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van Zyl nips in with a cheeky 3fer. Bairstow goes for a swashbuckling 79.
416 off 144 overs
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Although very very poor from England.
It's interesting that SA still have the old ball, and with one and a half days left, Amal is time wasting already.
South Africa shot and know a draw is all they can get and they need help doing it.
Surprise they didn't drop that to keep England out there.
Well batted jb though
SA soon to become England of the 1990s...maybe? They seem so shell shocked and in a daze
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Good knock by Bairstow there. Did what was needed and put his foot down.
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Decent job with the ball by the South Africans considering their Kingpin Steyn got injured. Piedt looks a good long term spin option. Morkel was lionhearted and probably deserved better figures. Abbott was a little disappointing especially on his home patch.
With no Steyn and Philander, SA could do with bring in form bowlers from FC for the second Test
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Van zyl handed a life. Although a tough chance at short leg.
Woakes going at 7.5 an over.......
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van zyl bowled through the gate
One down.
Did he do enough to play in the second test?
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van zyl bowled through the gate
One down.
Did he do enough to play in the second test?
Just reading on Twitter that most South Africans want van Zyl, Bavuma, du Plessis and Duminy axed.
Stephen Cook has scored an unbeaten 168 for his franchise today. He's actually a specialist opener. So unless they want van Zyl in the middle order it's unlikely he'll survive the axe.
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The four you mentioned are all averaging less than 27 for 2015 according to the commentators. So are probably all the ones inline.
Stephen cook a good shout, especially after looking solid against England in the A game. Plus his last few fc season say he probably deserves a shot.
Anyway
Amla gone, pollock proclaims it's a ball that should have gone to the boundary, this is a test match and the're trying to save a draw. Surely a ball that should have been left well alone!!
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FINNNNNNNNY
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THE STARS ARE ALIGNING
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The four you mentioned are all averaging less than 27 for 2015 according to the commentators. So are probably all the ones inline.
Stephen cook a good shout, especially after looking solid against England in the A game. Plus his last few fc season say he probably deserves a shot.
Anyway
Amla gone, pollock proclaims it's a ball that should have gone to the boundary, this is a test match and the're trying to save a draw. Surely a ball that should have been left well alone!!
TBH Duminy is lucky to be in the side. After his 160 against Australia he was proclaimed a star but as the years rolled past, he's failed to justify the early hype. Bavuma must be a quota pick, can't see any other reason for his selection. I'd stick with du Plessis. If I was selector I'd debut both Cook and Roussow
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Finny strikes again.
Is du plessis gonna attempt a dig in now? Was it 58 balls to get off the mark in India?
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Player of colour struggles, immediately the word quota gets thrown about. Do you even under stand why the system was originally introduced? Are the rest of the players of colour also quotas?
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Well we could start by looking at his test matches bowling averages : 5 Matches 6 wickets at an Ave of 56.83
Exactly, the first thing you go to is his bowling average, after 5 games? If you want to talk about bowling averages, his first class bowling average is better than Anderson, Broad or Finn. Come on, there must be something you genuinely don't like about his cricket.
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Player of colour struggles, immediately the word quota gets thrown about. Do you even under stand why the system was originally introduced? Are the rest of the players of colour also quotas?
You don't need to talk to me about quotas as when Khawaja was first selected he was labelled the same.
But in the case of South Africa they have very good coloured players. Amla, Philander, Rabada etc. Bavuma has a modest FC record and there are non colour players with better records not getting selected.
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Exactly, the first thing you go to is his bowling average, after 5 games? If you want to talk about bowling averages, his first class bowling average is better than Anderson, Broad or Finn. Come on, there must be something you genuinely don't like about his cricket.
FYI Anderson's FC average(- Test stats) is actually under 24...
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Interesting captaincy. If you ranked your bowling threats in the England bowling attack currently, you would probably have -
1) Broad
2) Finn
3) Ali
4) stokes
5) Woakes
Yet you have your least threatening two bowling at the same time? One of them yes, but one of the first three must be bowling from the other end surely?
You's want one more wicket tonight.
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You don't need to talk to me about quotas as when Khawaja was first selected he was labelled the same.
But in the case of South Africa they have very good coloured players. Amla, Philander, Rabada etc. Bavuma has a modest FC record and there are non colour players with better records not getting selected.
Amazing that you understand the quota reference and system so well yet you still choose to make the comment about Bavuma. But your response was enlightening and I will leave it at that.
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That's a big big chance missed!!!
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Embarrassing stat! The last stumping was 3 years ago. Shows how bad Buttler and bairstow are up to the stumps
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BOOYAH
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Exactly, the first thing you go to is his bowling average, after 5 games? If you want to talk about bowling averages, his first class bowling average is better than Anderson, Broad or Finn. Come on, there must be something you genuinely don't like about his cricket.
And there's the difference Anderson Broad and Finn all stepped up showed what they were capable of and took wickets in test matches.
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MOEEN YOU BEAUTY
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And a stumping! We're all good here lads...
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Bavuma hardly doing his reputation a great deal of help by charging Ali on 0 and getting stumped
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Finnnnnnnny
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Excellent start to the morning, Ali and Finn have been on the money from ball 1
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Almost there! :D
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we've been on fire in this game,and a nice warm feeling for those of us who thought we had a chance at least to get a draw against the worlds best team.
for SA.......it just shows how hard it is to replace world class players when they retire in a short space of time
Graeme Smith injured or not injured, fit or unfit.....to get his whites out again !
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DING DING DING 1-0. Great win.
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Fantastic team performance as good an overseas win since the 3-1 ashes series. Couple of nice touches at the end. Cook getting Finn a stump ( bowled very well) and Root signing autographs as he left the field
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As Atherton mentioned, it's been over a decade that England has won the first test in a series outside of England. A great all round performance by the team
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The perennial slow starters have won the first test of a series away from home! And against the worlds no1!
Interesting to hear smith say rankings mean nothing as this is not the side that earnt those points.
And that if England win 4-0(which is gonna be a push) South Africa drop to 5th in the rankings.
Just thinking back, think it was @procricket B3 among a few that were confident going into this and got some serious abuse from the aussie/SA contingent on here.
Dave showing here knows cricket and that later being awfully quiet in here.
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Yep 5 days is a long time in test matches you need the Comptons and Cooks to see off the opening bowlers and the new ball to give the middle order stroke players the best opportunity to get a score.
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Yep 5 days is a long time in test matches you need the Comptons and Cooks to see off the opening bowlers and the new ball to give the middle order stroke players the best opportunity to get a score.
exactly, this was a big match for Nick Compton and he's passed it with flying colours.If you let the SA pace attack get thru they will dominate and games will be lost in 3 days. Someone has to counter that for the team.
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Great start by England but that was only the first test! Even a fully fit DS wouldn't have saved that match!
But am pretty sure that SA will fight back, but only if they make a change or two.
I would have happily taken a 2-2 test result a week ago so just take one test at a time!
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Great win the only downside is Barring injuries and Jimmys not ready England will probably go into the next test with the same eleven.
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Best not to rush Anderson as we need him fully fit for the T20 World Cup. Might be an option to keep him away from Tests and play him in One Dayers?
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Anderson won't be anywhere near the T20 squad, or Broad for the time being. Don't ruin a good thing...
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I totally disagree - play him in tests if he's good to go and win a series against one of the worlds best teams.
He should leave the world T20 well alone - it is nothing but a smack and giggle joke of a tournament played by dirty sloggers dressed as garlanded poppinjays!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think.
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Best not to rush Anderson as we need him fully fit for the T20 World Cup. Might be an option to keep him away from Tests and play him in One Dayers?
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No offense meant but that is the craziest thing I've read on here for ages haha, don't waste what time he has left on T20 when we actually have a perfectly respectable T20 bowling attack with Willey et al.
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What a disappointing performance by SA. England did so many things well and everyone contributed.
Definitely a few changes needed. AB shouldn't keep and keep him fresh for batting. A specialist opener needed for sure and maybe Van Zyl to move to middle order in place of Bavuma. Rabada for the unfit Steyn.
No changes for England I suppose unless Jimmy fit.
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Best not to rush Anderson as we need him fully fit for the T20 World Cup. Might be an option to keep him away from Tests and play him in One Dayers?
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I'll have what ever your drinking or smoking mate.
And I'm sure if you tried saying to Andereon have a rest ready for the one dayers T20 World Cup he would punch there lights out, worlds best test bowler along side Steyn over recent times
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cant see Anderson or Broad playing another one day game let alone the T20 tournaments, it's just not going to happen. England have moved on and they are too valuable to us in Tests....Look at the amount of test cricket we play, it's mental
Jimmy A is just showing signs now also of picking up a few injuries whereas before the body let you shake them off-it happens when you get older. Broad has also has some injury problems recently.
The constant sniping against Anderson in particular on this forum by certain individuals beggars belief. We have two of the best opening bowlers in world cricket and have done for some time.They have got to be looked after now...have a look at Englands schedule in the next 12 months, and what we have played in the last 12....
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Best not to rush Anderson as we need him fully fit for the T20 World Cup. Might be an option to keep him away from Tests and play him in One Dayers?
I think it's been pretty well covered but he hasn't played a T20I since 2009 or an ODI since the World Cup. (Broad also hasn't played since the last WC in either format.)
I would go Elgar, Amla, Du Plessis, De Villiers, Van Zyl, Duminy (last chance), De Kock, Rabada, Abbott (Steyn if fit), Piedt, Morkel. Quite a big shake up but I think it's a more logical batting order
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My SA test xi
Elgar
Cook
Amla
De villiers
Van zyl
Rousow
De kock
Rabada
Abbott
Piedt
Morkel
Unfortunately I'm not sure that for fills the quota. So probably duminy for rousow or van zyl.
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I could see Broad playing T20/ODI again at some point, he's stated he wants to do so and he's at the age where he can still do it. However with Finn, Wood, Willey, Stokes, Woakes, Topley it's fair to say we're not light of seamers...
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De kock and Chris Morris have been added to South Africa's squad for the second test.
So who's opening?
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My SA test xi
Elgar
Cook
Amla
De villiers
Van zyl
Rousow
De kock
Rabada
Abbott
Piedt
Morkel
Unfortunately I'm not sure that for fills the quota. So probably duminy for rousow or van zyl.
They have to select four coloured players. Therefore Amla, Piedt, Rabada plus Duminy/Bavuma will play.
Cook wasn't selected.
de Kock will keep wicket though.
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They have to select four coloured players. Therefore Amla, Piedt, Rabada plus Duminy/Bavuma will play.
Cook wasn't selected.
de Kock will keep wicket though.
I would hazard a guess that Duminy's experience amongst such a young, transitional side will give him the benefit of the doubt.
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No offense meant but that is the craziest thing I've read on here for ages haha, don't waste what time he has left on T20 when we actually have a perfectly respectable T20 bowling attack with Willey et al.
No offence taken. Everyone has their own opinions and I understand where you're coming however, with him being a "senior" player, he does need looking after and this is probably his last major tournament?
Current T20 team does have a great bowling attack but if you would have to choose, I would have Jimmy over Broad in the squad
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No offence taken. Everyone has their own opinions and I understand where you're coming however, with him being a "senior" player, he does need looking after and this is probably his last major tournament?
Current T20 team does have a great bowling attack but if you would have to choose, I would have Jimmy over Broad in the squad
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That's fair enough, for me I'd rather see him take 50/60/70 more test wickets than risk his fitness playing ODI or T20I cricket. I think those extra test scalps would bring more to English cricket than (in my opinion of course!) what he would bring to an already decent white ball attack. For what it's worth I think that if he did play white ball cricket again he'd take wickets but, no more than Willey or Plunkett would.
EDIT - I also wouldn't have Broad play white ball cricket again either. I think we have pretty much the best Test new ball partnership in the world and wouldn't want to risk it.
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Current T20 team does have a great bowling attack but if you would have to choose, I would have Jimmy over Broad in the squad
Broad (when on form) is capable of destroying any batting line-up, as he has proved on a number of occasions! And he certainly seems to have got more accurate and more consistent over the last year or two! Add to that the fact that he could be considered more of an all-rounder with the bat in comparison to Jimmy, and I would pick Broad over Jimmy for the shorter format every time.
Jimmy is a World class Test bowler and would take him as second pick bowler (behind DS) for a World XI, but just not sure that he could offer too much over Broad at the moment...and would give away too much from the batting line-up!
But as others have said, we have some great limited over bowling and all-round options already without risking Jimmy or Broad!
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Has Jimmy ever been THAT good a white ball bowler?
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I would hazard a guess that Duminy's experience amongst such a young, transitional side will give him the benefit of the doubt.
TBH Duminy has been a liability for a long while now. He's averaging a rather poultry 33 and he's s pure batsman. With de Kock slotting in at 7, how can Duminy be a viable option at 6?
If it wasn't for the quota then Roussow would probably slot in at 6.
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TBH Duminy has been a liability for a long while now. He's averaging a rather poultry 33 and he's s pure batsman. With de Kock slotting in at 7, how can Duminy be a viable option at 6?
If it wasn't for the quota then Roussow would probably slot in at 6.
I wasn't defending Duminy as such I just wondered whether his experience over someone like Bavuma might count in his favour (Just to point out I've never seen Bavuma play so can't offer an opinion on him.)? Only seen Roussow play white ball (does he have a test cap) but he seems a good player.
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Whatever happens with the quota system, the SA Management have some real decisions to make.....and quickly!
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The stated aim is to have four players of colour including one of black African descent in every squad.
That's tough as there are not a whole lot of contenders around the main squads - one of Bavuma and Rabada of black African descent seem to have to play, whilst Amla, Duminy and whichever spinner (Piedt, Tahir, Petersen) make up the remainder. Its hard - admittedly from a limited field of knowledge of the Yarpie domestic game - to know who else they have of even approaching the level until Philander returns. Tsolekile is a decent stumper - but not quite international class - and Phangiso is probabaly more of a one day player (and in any event, not really in the right spot).
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Bavuma hardly doing his reputation a great deal of help by charging Ali on 0 and getting stumped
If you wish to charge down the wicket, you should know what you are doing ... Bavuma totally missed the trick ...
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Great win the only downside is Barring injuries and Jimmys not ready England will probably go into the next test with the same eleven.
If current line up is able to beat SA then why bring back Anderson. Let him get some rest and get in to the squad for 3rd test match.
Except the openers I think everyone played their part in scripting this victory.
Next match I am expecting big innings from Cook or Hales .. Let's see if the openers also start dominating SA bowling.
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Definitely a few changes needed. AB shouldn't keep and keep him fresh for batting. A specialist opener needed for sure and maybe Van Zyl to move to middle order in place of Bavuma. Rabada for the unfit Steyn.
Rabada for Steyn is an obvious choice. However both Bavuma and Van Zyl haven't contributed with the bat. Kick them both out and replace with other players ??
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The stated aim is to have four players of colour including one of black African descent in every squad.
That's tough as there are not a whole lot of contenders around the main squads - one of Bavuma and Rabada of black African descent seem to have to play, whilst Amla, Duminy and whichever spinner (Piedt, Tahir, Petersen) make up the remainder. Its hard - admittedly from a limited field of knowledge of the Yarpie domestic game - to know who else they have of even approaching the level until Philander returns. Tsolekile is a decent stumper - but not quite international class - and Phangiso is probabaly more of a one day player (and in any event, not really in the right spot).
Do they need to have 4 at all time ? Can that number not be reduced ? Though I don't agree with the policy I would say Imran Tahir is a bad option esp after Indian tour. He was bowling loose deliveries and Amla had real trouble on when to use him.
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Do they need to have 4 at all time ? Can that number not be reduced ? Though I don't agree with the policy I would say Imran Tahir is a bad option esp after Indian tour. He was bowling loose deliveries and Amla had real trouble on when to use him.
I wouldn't resume to be able to give a definitive answer, but one of the big tensions with AB was that he was forced to play Philander ahead of Abbott in the World Cup semi against the Kiwis, despite Philander being some way short of fitness.
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If current line up is able to beat SA then why bring back Anderson. Let him get some rest and get in to the squad for 3rd test match.
Except the openers I think everyone played their part in scripting this victory.
Next match I am expecting big innings from Cook or Hales .. Let's see if the openers also start dominating SA bowling.
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Not just the openers take a look at the bowling
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SA in deep trouble. Losing to India in India is one thing, but getting dismantled like this at home (Anderson wasn't even playing!) and struggling against M Ali (who was thrashed by Pak in the UAE) highlights how far they have fallen.
Amla needs to quit captaincy and focus on batting.
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Not just the openers take a look at the bowling
I think we can give england bowlers a bit of breathing space this time. They have managed to bowl out SA twice. That's a good start in foreign conditions ... Don't you think ??
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SA in deep trouble. Losing to India in India is one thing, but getting dismantled like this at home (Anderson wasn't even playing!) and struggling against M Ali (who was thrashed by Pak in the UAE) highlights how far they have fallen.
Amla needs to quit captaincy and focus on batting.
It's not like this is a one-off victory for England. SA never had the upper hand for a single day in the game !! SA need to do something dramatic here to turn around their fortune. Change captain or change mindset. May be a NZ-eqsue style will work ? McCullum brand of cricket perhaps ?
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I think we can give england bowlers a bit of breathing space this time. They have managed to bowl out SA twice. That's a good start in foreign conditions ... Don't you think ??
Yes it certainly is but dispointed with Woakes bowling 25 overs 1 wicket for 51 runs and that was the wicket of Pledt whos ave is about 4 with the bat..
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It's not like this is a one-off victory for England. SA never had the upper hand for a single day in the game !! SA need to do something dramatic here to turn around their fortune. Change captain or change mindset. May be a NZ-eqsue style will work ? McCullum brand of cricket perhaps ?
They won't be able to do anything dramatic in two days,second test starts Saturday.Amla will be captain changing him now would be sheer panic..not sure what the score is with devilliers and amla as separate captains but SA have already got de kock in to keep wicket and free up AB who clearly does not want to keep.
It's only one match Cape Town is a good venue for SA and they come back hard.
I think myself Amla has inherited a side as number 1 but just on the slide a bit-they are short of class,and now without Styen.
England have been rebuilding for a while and are now looking pretty good.
Boycott says we (England fans) need to thank India for this win but I'm not so sure playing India in India really is relevant. Plus....we thoroughly deserved this victory,India had home advantage and that means a lot these days
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The south African selection policy is a complete mystery.
Viljoen should be in the test squad, took his second 10 wicket haul in a row and bowled 150kph + in the Ram Slam, gave KP the hurry up.
Cook also getting runs in the warm up then backing it up with 168*. Still can't get selected!
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Read on cricinfo that South Africa's record at Durban isn't very good. I think they've only won once out of the last 6 matches there. Lost the 5 matches.
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It's not a mystery, it actually follows set rules.
It amazes me that in 2015 we are ok with the colour of someone's skin being a factor in selection. By all means put systems in place to help kids from less privileged backgrounds have the chance to get noticed but insisting that every 1st class side fields 6 "players of colour" is crazy. I already know of 1st class players who pro in the leagues and have now settled here because they know there is no point going back to play in SA, tell me how that is helping?
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Like all top level cricket, its small margins that can make big differences. SA aren't that bad or England that good. The trick for England is to play at the same level and for SA to show some of their batting ability. If England keep SA under the thumb then they will win in Cape Town and go on to win the series. However, SA can probably get a lot better and I'm expecting a much tougher game. Like in 2004 when England toured, SA started with the wrong team and came back strongly then.
Anderson is key imho, him getting through the top order and putting pressure on amla/ab will set things up. Woakes bowled OK but didn't look like running through SA. England have one massive advantage, a fifth bowler. If they can keep SA in the field and soak up overs then its very difficult to keep pressure on the England batsman. England can fiddle around and bowl in short higher intensity bursts until they find an opening. SA have to bowl longer spells and manage workload. The big risk is if England milk the spinner, SA are bowling part timers from then on. I think there is a general trend in world cricket towards five man attacks for this reason. When even Australia are playing 5 bowlers you know something is changing.
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Boycott says we (England fans) need to thank India for this win but I'm not so sure playing India in India really is relevant. Plus....we thoroughly deserved this victory,India had home advantage and that means a lot these days
Boycott is probably in cahoots with BCCI :D. BTW, commentators say a lot of things and i wouldn't put much value into it. I recall an incident where a commentator called Amla's bearded appearance likening him to a terrorist.
I wouldn't say Indian tour really helped England but it certainly broke down SA's confidence. Only AB was able to muster up some kind of a challenge. All other batsman were broken down and as a last resort they attempted to defend their way out of a defeat ! Morale is running a bit low and England beating SA at Durban is going to help them either ...
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England have one massive advantage, a fifth bowler. If they can keep SA in the field and soak up over then its very difficult to keep pressure on the England batsman. England can fiddle around and bowl in short higher intensity bursts until they find an opening. SA have to bowl longer spells and manage workload. The big risk is if England milk the spinner, SA are bowling part timers from then on.
Very well stated. 5th bowler is the key. This will ensure prime bowlers can bowl shorter, aggressive, wicket-taking spells and helps reducing the workload.
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Yes it certainly is but dispointed with Woakes bowling 25 overs 1 wicket for 51 runs and that was the wicket of Pledt whos ave is about 4 with the bat..
If Anderson is ready then Woakes would probably make way for him ...
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Word of advice. Anyone ever thinking of travelling to Durban - Don't!
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Word of advice. Anyone ever thinking of travelling to Durban - Don't!
That bad? I'm off to Cape Town today, hoping I don't say the same in a weeks time!
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Hardus Viljoen, fresh of taking 20 poles in his last two FC matches, has been called up by South Africa after Abbott got injured.
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Hardus Viljoen, fresh of taking 20 poles in his last two FC matches, has been called up by South Africa after Abbott got injured.
Just read this, anyone know anything about him? Out and out pace or skillful type?
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Just read this, anyone know anything about him? Out and out pace or skillful type?
One of those bowlers who bowls a heavy ball. Hit 150kph in the ram slam. Good selection! hopefully gets a game.
Much better bowler than rabada
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That bad? I'm off to Cape Town today, hoping I don't say the same in a weeks time!
Yeah massively, lots of people at our hotel got mugged or held at knife point, serious place! Heard Cape Town is a million times better/safer!
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Yeah massively, lots of people at our hotel got mugged or held at knife point, serious place! Heard Cape Town is a million times better/safer!
Stay safe guys!
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Yeah massively, lots of people at our hotel got mugged or held at knife point, serious place! Heard Cape Town is a million times better/safer!
I've just checked in now.
Heard Cape Town is pretty decent
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Like all top level cricket, its small margins that can make big differences. SA aren't that bad or England that good. The trick for England is to play at the same level and for SA to show some of their batting ability. If England keep SA under the thumb then they will win in Cape Town and go on to win the series. However, SA can probably get a lot better and I'm expecting a much tougher game. Like in 2004 when England toured, SA started with the wrong team and came back strongly then.
Anderson is key imho, him getting through the top order and putting pressure on amla/ab will set things up. Woakes bowled OK but didn't look like running through SA. England have one massive advantage, a fifth bowler. If they can keep SA in the field and soak up overs then its very difficult to keep pressure on the England batsman. England can fiddle around and bowl in short higher intensity bursts until they find an opening. SA have to bowl longer spells and manage workload. The big risk is if England milk the spinner, SA are bowling part timers from then on. I think there is a general trend in world cricket towards five man attacks for this reason. When even Australia are playing 5 bowlers you know something is changing.
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bowlers win matches Guys who can collectively take 20 wickets Woakes 25 overs 1 wicket for 51 runs containment bowling yes bot not good enough to win tests where as you have said Anderson can get the top order players out.
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Yeah massively, lots of people at our hotel got mugged or held at knife point, serious place! Heard Cape Town is a million times better/safer!
Durban is lovely! I'd stay around Umhlanga though and not the CBD (I've stayed in one of the townships there - perhaps not the sort of thing I'd recommend however!)
Cape Town is like a different country to the rest of SA. Lacks the art-y vibe of the rest of the place though.
The whole country is beautiful. My favourite place in the world!
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One of those bowlers who bowls a heavy ball. Hit 150kph in the ram slam. Good selection! hopefully gets a game.
Much better bowler than rabada
Pretty baseless comment if you ask me. Both Rabada and Viljoen play for the Lions franchise and last year Rabada(a rookie) was the star bowler. Ian Chappell doesn't rate many players but he rates Rabada...
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Rabada looks a decent prospect from what I've seen, bowls quite a slippery pace but he's young and inexperienced, I assume he'll be picked if Steyn isn't fit which will allow them to get de Kock in for Bavuma.
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I think Chris Morris for Abbott as well. Stiffens the tail somewhat and gives them a line and length option in the philander/Abbott style.
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Durban is lovely! I'd stay around Umhlanga though and not the CBD (I've stayed in one of the townships there - perhaps not the sort of thing I'd recommend however!)
Cape Town is like a different country to the rest of SA. Lacks the art-y vibe of the rest of the place though.
The whole country is beautiful. My favourite place in the world!
Yeah up there and Florida Row is decent enough however we stayed 5 mins from Kingsmead right in the centre, very scary place. Our taxis would run red lights just so they didn't have to stop in certain areas!
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As expected Dale Steyn has been ruled out of the second Test.
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Rabada confirmed as his replacement too.
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We have Sky Sports back!
Can't wait to watch some Test Cricket again :D
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Very big test match for us England supporters,dontvthink the pressure is in SA right now but if we win this there will be a lot of questions asked of the home side
Amla needs a score this match and must now know how Cook felt for 18 months!!
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Cook did go through a period of not being able to hit runs, which is always a shame as he is a class opener!
But it is the same for Amla at the moment! I have always loved watching Amla bat as he looks fantastic when he is on decent form!!!
I am totally torn though as I love seeing him batting well, but would prefer to see him not hitting runs against England ;)
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Is it me or should steyn have played more tests by now.. I keep forgetting he is 32!
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Cook did go through a period of not being able to hit runs, which is always a shame as he is a class opener!
But it is the same for Amla at the moment! I have always loved watching Amla bat as he looks fantastic when he is on decent form!!!
I am totally torn though as I love seeing him batting well, but would prefer to see him not hitting runs against England ;)
Let's hope new year brings some kind of luck to Amla, as a matter of fact the entire SA team could go with some good luck ....
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England to bat
Woakes out anderson in
SA
Steyn, abbott and duminy out
Rabada, Morris in and de kock to stump
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Can't quite work out how Morris gets in over Viljoen given the warmup game and recent form.
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Cooky absolutely belting out God Save the Queen, amazing. His choirboy days at St Paul's were so worth it.
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Haha!! Yeah loving the barmy army and the team singing it together..
What a setting for a test match at Newlands
Head down lets go :-)
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Absolutely great weather in Cape Town today. Gutted I can't get down to the ground today.
Would have loved to see Hardus Viljoen bowl in this match.
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Cracking catch from the debutant!!
Cook out. And before hales for the 3rd innings running......
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And Compton in full m and h gear.
It's not got 50mm edges that bat though
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Thought cricketers were a superstitious lot, if he fails surely he'll blame the change of gear ;)
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And Compton in full m and h gear.
It's not got 50mm edges that bat though
Maybe cuz he got it from their storm damage "bargain" pile
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On another note...hats off to Aleem Dar for becoming only the 3rd to get 100 Tests
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Fifty for hales!!
Abit flashy that first over after lunch. But then Compton has upped the tempo to. Words from the dressing room?
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Or he just wanted to get through to lunch maybe?
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Compton seems to be having an identity crisis
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How long before Hales has a rush of something to the head and needlessly tries to play a big shot
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Ooohhhh your psychic
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It's a strange partnership to watch this one. These 2 are Englands least established batsmen and whilst both players are clearly talented I think neither of them quite understands their best approach to test match cricket. If they were partnering any other player in the team I'm sure it would be easier, but sticking them together makes difficult watching as they don't understand their own games, or each others
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Lot of chat still from the SA commentators about Compton's lack of shots, even as he put the foot down a bit. Didn't look that way at Glos in the t20 last year when he put the bowlers all round the ground! Bloke adjusts his game to the format, clearly. Isn't that the idea after all!
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I want Hales to do well at test level as I really do rate him, but I do wonder if he has the temprament to play a really "dig in" Test Match openers innings.
As I type that Compton is flashing outside his off stump, role reversal?
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Hales gone for 60 :(
Set up a treat by Morkel and good grab by AB De Villiers at 2nd slip (his 200th dismissal in Test Cricket)
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Gutted for Hales, would have loved a ton from him. I think (hope) given a bit of time he could perform, for England, the same role Warner does for Aus. Just needs a bit of time to adjust I reckon. Hope they stick with him.
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England will stick with him im sure,with Compton at 3 theres an insurance policy if Hales goe early.i think thats half the reason NC was picked-hes opposite to Hales.
It does look to me now thou as if the doir has closed on Bell.not that many fans of bell on these boards from past threads i dint think but warks fan look like seeing him next year
Personally ive loved watching Bell for england but with hales,ballance in the squad,taylor doing well and Lyth(?) maybe to come again,and Compton doing a job so far....he wont get back in
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That bumper Rabada judt bowled to Root was seriously quick!
Definitely one to watch
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Wowcher! That got on him fast.
Also roots pink Nb gloves
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h76/smilley792/E3F47F1E-525B-49FB-A96B-85143912498A_zps1fdwg9lg.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/smilley792/media/E3F47F1E-525B-49FB-A96B-85143912498A_zps1fdwg9lg.jpg.html)
Can you get these @Vitas Cricket
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Compton caught off a short ball.
Hit it well straight to midwicket :(
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My mind is still blown that Nick Compton hit a six in a test match
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To be fair that was unlucky,he hit that well and looks the part against the short ball
A bit more wood in the hitting area rather than the edge and he might of gotvthat thru
Hehe!!
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And that is tea
Rabada has bowled well and deserved his wickets. I look forward to seeing how his international career progresses.
So far of the three wickets:
Cook was prodding in front of his eyes.
Hales was set up and got a good nut.
You could argue Compton didn't have to go after his right before tea.
167-3 it's finely poised, but South Africa will be the happier of the two sides at this stage.
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Wowcher! That got on him fast.
Also roots pink Nb gloves
([url]http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h76/smilley792/E3F47F1E-525B-49FB-A96B-85143912498A_zps1fdwg9lg.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s61.photobucket.com/user/smilley792/media/E3F47F1E-525B-49FB-A96B-85143912498A_zps1fdwg9lg.jpg.html[/url])
Can you get these @Vitas Cricket
We noticed these in the last game. Will ask NB.
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How was that not a no ball?
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That was a no ball in my opinion. The foot wasn't even grounded in the shot the zoomed. It was the next shot
Old man umpire confused by the shadow
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Another picture of the pink gloves.
These are a bit naughty
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb450/CPye061194/20160102_133122_zpsyh8r4fn0.jpg) (http://s1206.photobucket.com/user/CPye061194/media/20160102_133122_zpsyh8r4fn0.jpg.html)
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It seems Compo is going to be one of these players who people dislike - oppo and English fans combined.
If he gets runs, he gets them slowly and that gets people going and moaning.
However, my opinion is that he looks more likely to score runs than the alternatives - Lyth, Robson, Bell et all - he's also a useful foil if Cook goes early. All you Hales fans who want a crash, boom, bang start, maybe grateful for Compton in the games to come!
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I like Compton, big fan of a resolute grinder at no 3. Although his technique got found out a bit I like Ballance at 3 for that resolute mental toughness.
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I think compo is doing a solid job. It's right what was just said that he's a solid insurance policy incase we loose early wicket, which we normally do!
He played a poor shot after getting in again which is a shame. If he was using a gn that would of gone for four! My bad.
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Sounded very out, Stokes looked a bit guilty too. But all pad, LBW maybe?
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Sounded very out, Stokes looked a bit guilty too. But all pad, LBW maybe?
With logic like that, I can only assume you're a pannel umpire? ;)
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How does an lbw sound very out???
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BEN STOKES WITH A BIGGUN
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That six sounded out to me as well... :-[
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Village form van zyl as his warm Up ball went for overthrows........
Worries me for SA sake that he's on already in a game.
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Roooooooooooot
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Roooooooooooot
X2
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And another failure to convert!! Chuffs sake joe.
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How does an lbw sound very out???
How do you think? Sounded like a nick behind? Which is what they went up for. I am watching what appears to be a 144p stream with 8-bit sound, which doesn't make things clear.
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50 and out again for Root.
If he converted even half his starts he'd almost certainly be ranked as world number 1.
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Root's making a nasty habit of those leaden-footed swishes once he's got to a half century
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Another picture of the pink gloves.
These are a bit naughty
([url]http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb450/CPye061194/20160102_133122_zpsyh8r4fn0.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s1206.photobucket.com/user/CPye061194/media/20160102_133122_zpsyh8r4fn0.jpg.html[/url])
They're like the yellow and blue ones Stokes had last year, at least Roots have the right model number on them.
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50 for Benji, batted lad
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Well batted Benjamin. Lovely guided over he slip cordon.....
3 fifties, and another 50 partnership.
We'd be in a very very good position had someone gone on here. Still 400 buy dinner tomorrow will be nice.
And smash.
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This is why I love him, when he goes, boy does he rev it up...
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Also the only batsman on this tour who doesn't have a 50 is Cook and Ali at a stretch. We're pretty good sometimes.
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Cricket in its infuriating nutshell there.
New ball more catches.
4, edge over a catch, big 4.
Move that catcher to protect runs.
Edge down where he would have been........ Amla shakes his head
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Stokes seems to have decided to either go into 1 day mode. Or that rabada and Morris are not test match new bowlers.
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Love this, new ball getting the treatment. Stokes needs to stay out there though, as others have said we should be in a better position than this if someone had stayed in and gone big.
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Yes but it's a team effort so far we got 300 and stokes has started to launch it-it's great to watch
But without banging on about it those guys that batted earlier allowed stokes and bairstow to play this way
It's the mix of styles that makes a good team
And yes I'd rather watch stokes and bairstow bat than nick 'compo' Compton but cook and NC are becoming vital to the team
Stick another one in the crOwd thou Ben :) :)
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Day 1 over.
Should you judge a game till both teams have batted? Probably not. But.
A good for England! The last partnership and session have put england on top for me. And in a good position for tomorrow.
450 plus could be on the cards by mid day tomorrow. And heap a lot of pressure on the non performing South African batsmen.
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Other than a ball either side of lunch that was England's day.
Only real dissapointment was Hales, Compton & Root getting a start and not going on.
The average day 1 score at Newlands is around 273-7 (I think) so 317-5 is a good start.
Lets hope Stokes and Bairstow start from scratch tomorrow and get their eyes back in then push on in the morning.
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I think it could easily have gone towards South Africa today after those quick wickets, but for once England dug in and showed fight to end the day on top. Doing that against any team low on confidence is only going to hurt them more. Let's hope England push on and run the bowlers into the ground again.
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I think Stokes is one of the most exciting cricketers on the international stage at the moment but he has to be able to start again from scratch in the morning and hopefully go on to make a proper score.
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Stokes was England's third highest test run scorer in 2015, so despite some people on here saying his batting isn't good enough to be a test number 6 the lad's clearly doing something right.
I know there's a few (ex?) members on here who don't think he's a good enough batsman or bowler to be in the side, but I really do rate him. He scores quickly and gets people watching, he bowls decent pace and has a knack of taking wickets and is dynamic in the field. I honestly think every country would love to have a Ben Stokes in their ranks.
Can I also point out he's England's highest test run scorer in 2016 ;)
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I think Stokes is one of the most exciting cricketers on the international stage at the moment but he has to be able to start again from scratch in the morning and hopefully go on to make a proper score.
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Good point. The way England bat at the moment 350 isn't nailed on.
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His stats so far if im correct are better than the likes of flintoffs in the same amount of tests. I bet the same people would like fred in their side though!
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Think Cam sums him up perfectly. In terms of players who kids can also get excited about he sticks out alongside Root by a country mile. At the moment it's probably to say he's a 'feast or famine' player and I'm sure with time it'll work out fine, but when he's on song he's so much fun to watch. Doesn't back down from a fight and has some grit about him.
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Think Cam sums him up perfectly. In terms of players who kids can also get excited about he sticks out alongside Root by a country mile. At the moment it's probably to say he's a 'feast or famine' player and I'm sure with time it'll work out fine, but when he's on song he's so much fun to watch. Doesn't back down from a fight and has some grit about him.
This is exactly how I feel, I hope no one thought I was trying to knock him. I think he could be one of England's all time great all rounders, he admits himself though that he needs to try and find some consistency which I think is fair. He certainly has the skills, he has pretty sound technique as a batsman yet hits the ball as hard as anyone and his bowling is streets ahead of what his figures suggest. He has the rare ability to pretty much win a test match single handedly with bat or ball.
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I think Stokes attacking play at the new ball nudged England in front. would love to see him go on and get a ton tomorrow morning and set a real platform for England.
Did anyone see the stat about root getting out between 50-99 10 times in tests in 2015. He's had an awesome year but if he'd gone and converted them it could have been an exceptional year
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Just watching 'The Verdict' - how good is Trott as a pundit? I'm pretty impressed with him - I can listen to him and Butch all evening, the other two old farts can take a hike though!
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That could have gone either way but for the last partnership!!
You can never tell for sure which team is on top until both have batted, but if we push on to 400-450 tomorrow then the pressure will be on SA.
And we already know that confidence is rather low amongst SA batting so a decent knock tomorrow could hurt SA! Although never write off ABdV!!!
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Just watching 'The Verdict' - how good is Trott as a pundit? I'm pretty impressed with him - I can listen to him and Butch all evening, the other two old farts can take a hike though!
I presume you mean Charles Coalville who plays for someone's sevenths when they are short but are you putting him and Bob in the same boat? Surely not ?
Is it the monotone drone of his voice? Or the better in my day undertone?
:) :)
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Also.... Nick Compton...what a valuable pla.... Oh forget that
Has anyone else noticed the quality of the South African women in bikinis today in the crowd? Yes...far easier to look good on a blistering hot day but some of the crumpet on show is truly eye popping
Still can't get my head around them drinking pints but apart from that the highlights are worth watching just for the quality on show.
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One of the lads at our club went to a full tour of South Africa a few years ago. He said he's never been to any other country where the quality of the women was as good!
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Also.... Nick Compton...what a valuable pla.... Oh forget that
Has anyone else noticed the quality of the South African women in bikinis today in the crowd? Yes...far easier to look good on a blistering hot day but some of the crumpet on show is truly eye popping
Still can't get my head around them drinking pints but apart from that the highlights are worth watching just for the quality on show.
Easy tiger ;) haha
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My mate went to the football world cup in Brazil last year and said the women their are incredible! Having said that ive never met an ugly Saffa
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Think it's time for Russell Domingo to hold his hands up and admit he's out of his depth. He inherited an all conquering side from Gary Kirsten. But post Smith and Kallis' retirements, Domingo has been totally exposed. In some aspects he's like former England coach Peter Moores eg stats obsessed. Unfortunately, as Moores found out, the game isn't played on paper.
I think the Proteas should appoint Graeme Smith as their head coach. This is a man who bleeds for his country, is as hard as nails and a natural born winner. Throw in Pollock/Klusenar/Kallis and the sinking ship can still be salvaged.
One final change would be Dean Elgar replacing Hashim Amla as skipper. Amla's too laid back to be skipper. Elgar has been South Africa A's skipper and he's been positive and aggressive(from the match I've seen against Australia A). Someone like AB de Villiers is too important to be saddled with captaincy.
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Any team which loses Steyn and Philander is going to struggle to look as impressive. Also, the SA team still does not have a quality spinner. England do not have a world beater, but he can put 6 balls there or thereabouts.
Amla is still learning as skipper. Still making mistakes on the odd occasion.
However, credit where credit is due - some of the England players have really stepped up. Compton looks at home at 3, Bairstow and Stokes looking like chief destroyers in the lower middle order and Root... Just continuing to look like a player who will eventually define a generation.
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Amla's captaincy seems to be a hot topic.
It was a curious decision to bring his part timers on midway through day one admitedly, and he's getting some stick for it. Had one of the part timers snared a wicket would he have been a genius today?
Cricket is a game with so many ifs, but and what ifs. Either Give Amla a chance to establish himself as a skipper or make the change sooneer rather than later. His position now isn't that different to our own Captain Cook's was 18 months ago and he's turned out alright...
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Any team which loses Steyn and Philander is going to struggle to look as impressive. Also, the SA team still does not have a quality spinner. England do not have a world beater, but he can put 6 balls there or thereabouts.
Amla is still learning as skipper. Still making mistakes on the odd occasion.
However, credit where credit is due - some of the England players have really stepped up. Compton looks at home at 3, Bairstow and Stokes looking like chief destroyers in the lower middle order and Root... Just continuing to look like a player who will eventually define a generation.
You're wrong about Piedt, the kid is the real deal. He's coming back from a shoulder reconstruction as well.
Your coach needs to show tough love if your side isn't performing. Yet Domingo fails to bag out his players ever.
Regardless whether Steyn and Philander are missing. Why didn't they call up a line bowler as a replacement? Instead they chose three hit the pitch bowlers at a venue where Philander takes wickets for fun by pitching it up.
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Amla's captaincy seems to be a hot topic.
It was a curious decision to bring his part timers on midway through day one admitedly, and he's getting some stick for it. Had one of the part timers snared a wicket would he have been a genius today?
Cricket is a game with so many ifs, but and what ifs. Either Give Amla a chance to establish himself as a skipper or make the change sooneer rather than later. His position now isn't that different to our own Captain Cook's was 18 months ago and he's turned out alright...
Reading on other forums there's a general consensus from South Africans Amla is too reactive and the added responsibility has damaged his batting. I'd rather have him averaging 50 and not be skipper, then saddling him with the captaincy and he can't buy a run.
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Agree with the above. Especially the bit about AB. No way should the captaincy be put on him, let him do his thing, which is score runs. Although as an Englishman maybe I should be pushing for him to get bogged down by captaincy haha
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I presume you mean Charles Coalville who plays for someone's sevenths when they are short but are you putting him and Bob in the same boat? Surely not ?
Is it the monotone drone of his voice? Or the better in my day undertone?
:) :)
To be fair Colville is just the presenter (or leader) he doesn't actually have much of an opinion, he just leads the discussion in a place to get other people's opinion! I agree Trott is a cracking pundit and Butcher isn't too bad also! My favourite is Rob Key, but I've liked him as a county pundit as he is up to date and speaks sense, he still does a good job on an international level too though.
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Think it's time for Russell Domingo to hold his hands up and admit he's out of his depth. He inherited an all conquering side from Gary Kirsten. But post Smith and Kallis' retirements, Domingo has been totally exposed. In some aspects he's like former England coach Peter Moores eg stats obsessed. Unfortunately, as Moores found out, the game isn't played on paper.
I think the Proteas should appoint Graeme Smith as their head coach. This is a man who bleeds for his country, is as hard as nails and a natural born winner. Throw in Pollock/Klusenar/Kallis and the sinking ship can still be salvaged.
One final change would be Dean Elgar replacing Hashim Amla as skipper. Amla's too laid back to be skipper. Elgar has been South Africa A's skipper and he's been positive and aggressive(from the match I've seen against Australia A). Someone like AB de Villiers is too important to be saddled with captaincy.
+1 on Domingo. But he is never going to agree that he is out of depth. He is going to get replaced if they lose the home series to England. They are going to dump him and replace him with Smith. He is the most obvious choice for now ....
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Agree with the above. Especially the bit about AB. No way should the captaincy be put on him, let him do his thing, which is score runs. Although as an Englishman maybe I should be pushing for him to get bogged down by captaincy haha
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I don't agree with SA's approach of having three captains - AB for ODI, Amla for tests and Faf for T20. There is no real need to have three captains. The role has been distributed as if to make their top three players have equal authority. England have two captain approach too, but neither one plays with the other right now. Cook stays in tests while Morgan stays in ODI/T20 world. It works wonders for them. Look at SA, they have their three captains who play under each other in different formats. If i were a bowler in that team, i would be wondering who the hell should i listen to ??
I think they should appoint AB as test captain and Dean as test vice-captain. Give it a year and then transition Dean to the role of captain.
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Is there anyone in the England line up (playing eleven) who is sponsored by GM ?
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Is there anyone in the England line up (playing eleven) who is sponsored by GM ?
None in the playing XI
Cook - Gray Nicolls
Hales - Gray Nicolls
Compton - Millichamp & Hall
Root - New Balance
Taylor - Gray Nicolls
Stokes - New Balance
Bairstow - Gray Nicolls .
Ali - SS/Ton
Broad - Adidas
Anderson - Slazenger
Finn - Woodworm
And only one in the squad I think.
Woakes - Gray Nicolls
Ballance - New Balance
Jordan - CA
Butler - Kookaburra
Patel - Gunn & Moore
Footitt - not sure (B3 kit & Ayrtek lid?)
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Stokes' left the engine run overnight!
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Ben Stokes tucking in to the buffet this morning.
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Get in, top man
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Have I got the big bash on instead or have SA sent the under 12s out.... Brilliant brutal batting
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I feel for anyone who's not woken up yet, this is madness!
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Morris has gone for 61 off 6 overs since they took the new ball :o
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Who needs the Big Bash?!
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Is it 50 in 5 overs?
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Sales of kids NB bats to skyrocket
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Stokes does not rate Morris!!
100 up for the big man stokes
50 up for bairstow
Morris flies past the ton on debut.......
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Unlike an England side to bat like this. Was expecting the usual collapse to 350 all out around lunchtime.
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150 up for stokes!! Massive from the gingerman. Keep going son
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Stokes bring up 150 and the 200 partnership with a glorious straight 6.
What a morning!
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Have to wait to see how England bowl on this pitch but SA's attack is looking pretty blunt at the moment. Be interesting to see if SA attack Ali as England have to Piedt
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Carnage in Cape town!
Really hope YJB makes his maiden ton. Stokes has been sensational
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Yawn...morning chaps. Just woke up. Have I missed anything ;)
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Stokes is just in absolute beserker mode here, just hitting it where he wants!
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Just woken up, can't beleive I missed my boy Benji bringing up his 150 :(
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WHAT ON EARTH IS GOING ON
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Piedt at the end of that over looked like he might cry
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This is amazing from Stokes
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250 run stand at 6.72 runs per over.
What?
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Out the ground!!!!!
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Sending it towards the brewery. Is he thirsty?
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More amazing than Ben Stokes destroying these club bowlers, the on field umpire has actually called 2 no-balls!
And as I type that Benji sends Rabada out of the ground!
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Just how big does this ball look to Stokes at the moment?
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Part of me wants to learn to play a classical cover drive, part of me wants to be ben stokes and just slam the ball everywhere. Unbelievable
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If this was boxing they'd have dragged Stokes off South Africa ages ago, he's scored over 100 in the session already!
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Well done to stokes to put into context The last time an England player ( Ramprekash ) scored 150 or more away from home batting at 6 or lower was 1998.
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I thought that England may get to 450, but I would have never predicted this carnage!
The problem is that SA seem to be waiting for the batsmen to get themselves out. But they do not have a plan B!!
This will put the pressure on the bowling and they are losing it! But the pressure on the SA batsmen will also be massive if we get 500-550.
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Morris is back on! Buffet time. Dig in boys.
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Stokes is seeing it as big a Jupiter!!
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My heart goes out to Morris - the guy is being totally bullied and ripped to shreds!!
When Morris got thrown the ball, he must have thought," REALLY!!??"
Double hundred in sight! Fingers crossed.
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209 he needs to beat bothams top score... Cmon the ginger ninjas!!
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In an hour last night and an hour this morning England have won the series.
Remarkable stuff from stokes !
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I would love to know what the Barmy Army are singing!!
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Stuck in the queue for ratatouille at Euro Disney smashing my data trying to keep up to date. Go stokes.
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I would love to know what the Barmy Army are singing!!
Kolo/Yaya Toure chant, but with the Battle of the Beards https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hsbg9NiMRzk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hsbg9NiMRzk)
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200 for Benji! <3
I think I love the ginger hunk!
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Well batted ben stokes. Excellent innings. One of a kind.
74 to 202 in one session!! Incredible
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Take a bow young man!
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Well batted lad! Wel batted *takes hat off*
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Also 500 up!!
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Stokes now has the highest score by an England player batting at number 6 or lower beating the 178 scored by Hick in 1993.
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And smashed gibbs balls to 200 record by 58 balls!!
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He has absolutely slaughtered SA's attack this morning! They look lost in the field
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Amla's uninspiring captaincy shows no signs of improving. The decision when the second new ball was taken and the removal of the third slip(Stokes edges the next ball through there). Since then Amla has been reacting to wherever the ball has been hit. He's just not a strong captain. Bowling has been shocking as well, don't understand why they keep pounding it in half way down. Cape Town is a pitch up to the batsmen ground.
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Because like any village player they are now scared to grt hit over the top
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Amla's uninspiring captaincy shows no signs of improving. The decision when the second new ball was taken and the removal of the third slip(Stokes edges the next ball through there). Since then Amla has been reacting to wherever the ball has been hit. He's just not a strong captain. Bowling has been shocking as well, don't understand why they keep pounding it in half way down. Cape Town is a pitch up to the batsmen ground.
Sometimes you just have to say how brilliant England have been thou.Today is that day.Cheers.
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Bit slow for my liking
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Who do we think won that session then?
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Cricket won that session
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So what's the plan now?
Bat on until at least tea and wither declare then or even overnight with 600/650+ on the board
Skittle then out for 200 put them back in, skittle them out again and win it by lunch on day 4?
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So what's the plan now?
Bat on until at least tea and wither declare then or even overnight with 600/650+ on the board
Skittle then out for 200 put them back in, skittle them out again and win it by lunch on day 4?
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Sounds like a plan, Stokes will have about 400 by then as well haha
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Sometimes you just have to say how brilliant England have been thou.Today is that day.Cheers.
That may well be the case but of you take the new ball and then proceed to have 5 men on the rope after 3 balls, it's hardly giving the bowlers any confidence is it?
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As well as Stokes and Bairstow are batting you really have to take into account the very weak bowling attack SA have gone into this test with. Morris and Rabada are well below international standards so in reality they have 1 quality bowler in the team in Morkel and I think the strain on him is showing.
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Can only play what's in front of you though. By that logic any achievement against Zimbabwe or Bangladesh should be ignored due to some of the sub standard teams they've fielded over the years? Including Hayden's then world record 375!
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I didn't say anything should be ignored... I said they are batting well.... I'm just telling it like it is and that is SA have fielded a very poor bowling attack in this test
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Ben Stokes has put England in such a strong position, not just by the amount of runs but they've been scored so quickly it has advanced the game to a point where a declaration should be made before Tea. Maybe bat another 20 overs and have a sharp 40 mins at them before the interval. RSA will be knackered having chased leather for 5 sessions, England's bowlers well rested, and the mental demons still there from last Test for Sth Africa. That Stokes innings is as good as anything Dave Warner can produce...
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That may well be the case but of you take the new ball and then proceed to have 5 men on the rope after 3 balls, it's hardly giving the bowlers any confidence is it?
It's no good blaming Amla for everything.if you have ever captained a side you would know he is TRYING to protect his tired bowlers. SA need five bowlers not 4 in hot conditions you always do
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I didn't say anything should be ignored... I said they are batting well.... I'm just telling it like it is and that is SA have fielded a very poor bowling attack in this test
Sorry perhaps I was being a bit overly defensive haha, just think this has been a really special knock and it's nice to see an England team on the rise :)
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Are we allowed to speculate on the origins of Stoke's blade?
Is there any chance it was conceived in a small industrial unit in the Nottingham area?
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JONNY THE GINGER NINJA
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Yes bluey!!!
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YJB!!!
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Are we allowed to speculate on the origins of Stoke's blade?
Is there any chance it was conceived in a small industrial unit in the Nottingham area?
I'm sure I've seen a picture on here with a sticker from said industrial unit on his bat handle before.
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Emotional celebration from Bairstow
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Emotional celebration from Bairstow there, that really meant a lot to him and you could see that. Spine tingling stuff when he got to 3 figures
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Hopefully his career can kick on from here. Great moment, obviously meant a lot. Wonder if he was thinking about his dad?
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Hopefully his career can kick on from here. Great moment, obviously meant a lot. Wonder if he was thinking about his dad?
That's what I thought. A lot of looks towards the sky and he looked very tearful, as @WalkingWicket37 said spine tingling
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Are we allowed to speculate on the origins of Stoke's blade?
Is there any chance it was conceived in a small industrial unit in the Nottingham area?
The way hes wielding it id be surprised if it wasnt forged in a galaxy far far away
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Also imagine he'd replayed that 95 vs SA at home over and over his head a few years ago and though so much about how he could have got that extra 5 runs. Bowling attack is t quite as ferocious (or good) as that day mind, still he's batted excellently in the last two games and hopefully he can kick in from here
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Well I really shouldn't have overslept the alarm I set to watch this today!
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Amla has lost the plot if he's reviewing that. Not even broad would have asked to review that
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600! Happy days.
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South African commentators begging for a declaration! Seen South Africa do this to a few sides like West Indies last year. Keep going!
And then Morkel drops a sitter
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Think that drop just about sums up South Africa at the moment
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Where Gerry is my question...
Every dog has there day
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JESUS
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Once the Bairstow Stokes partnership reached 366 it became the highest test match partnership against SA in SA
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What a way to go! Ab drops one and then runs stokes out!
What a knock
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WTF
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Ben stokes take a bow son
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Well batted by the gingers! Serious knock boys
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And the declaration!
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630 for the Saffas to chase!
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If I were cook I'd make sure Stokes gets on to bowl fairly early, bet he feels invincible st the moment!
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Hope those two are piling the factor 50 on, straight back out in to the field now.
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Was thinking yesterday that this was a stokes pitch and stokes attack.
Not very good just didn't need to rush as he has done and he writes himself into folklore what an innings
And the same for Johnny too great great Knicks by both of the lads.
Just thinking how many new balance dc's are going to be ordered and shifted now
Super super Ben super benny stokes super super John super Johnny bairstow
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It's no good blaming Amla for everything.if you have ever captained a side you would know he is TRYING to protect his tired bowlers. SA need five bowlers not 4 in hot conditions you always do
I have captained numerous times and I know how the captaincy gig works.
As for 4 bowlers vs 5 bowlers. I disagree. Had Steyn and Philander been playing there's no way they would've been continuously banging it in half way down.
Langeveldt must be questioned in his role as bowling coach.
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One question does Stuart Broad have a permanent limp?
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Van Zyl using SS kit now after using Kookaburra in the previous Test.
Must have been a similar situation to Compton with Gray Nics and M and H
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Wonder what ab will come out with?
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Wonder what ab will come out with?
Thor's hammer?
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Another one bites the dust for kookaburra with Van Zyl moving. what is going on there?
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YES YES YES!
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Van Zyl using SS kit now after using Kookaburra in the previous Test.
Must have been a similar situation to Compton with Gray Nics and M and H
Should've given him a longer one!
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OH DEAR!!
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Schoolboy error there by Van Zyl. There wasn't a run
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van Zyl trying to end his Test career with dodgin running like that.
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Well that's probably not what South Africa wanted, Pakistan esque run out gets the first wicket.
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Crazy! Panic already!!
And now the out of form Amla next in.
I think that people are right.....Amla should not be Captain - he should be concentrating on getting form back with his batting! SA need him to get his form back!
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Van Zyl must have been watching Marlon Samuels last night
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Wonder what ab will come out with?
MRF perhaps?
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MO
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Ah, inside edge. Oh well.
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Where Gerry is my question...
I was thinking that myself earlier Dave!
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BEN
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Ab using Kookaburra
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He bats, he bowls, and is fun in the field.
I have no issue admitting I have a man crush on Benji Stokes!
Elgar gone, good catch by Compton.
AB De Villiers in, using Kookaburra kit
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About time Stokes did sometging in this game instead of letting the rest of the team carry him 😂
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And de villiers dropped in the slips.
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The 2 best batsmen are in now (when on form obviously!) so this is the game right here!
If they stay in, then the Saffas will have a chance of saving this Test! Plus Amla may start to find his class form again, which is always dangerous!!
So this next 20/30 overs is going to be important period for the Test and possibly the series.
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Bairstow and Stokes partnership of 399 is second highest for England to the 411 scored by Colin cowdrey and Peter May in 1957.
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What a great days test cricket. Stokes may be a feast or famine cricketer but when he comes off, it's seriously good entertainment, also proving his worth as an all rounder getting a good wicket in Elgar who can really dig in.
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What a great days test cricket. Stokes may be a feast or famine cricketer but when he comes off, it's seriously good entertainment, also proving his worth as an all rounder getting a good wicket in Elgar who can really dig in.
Gun fielder too!
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At a point in the innings Stokes & Bairstow were going at almost 7 runs an over. SA fast bowlers - Rabada and Morris have no clue on what to do when pushed to a corner. All they did was kept banging the ball on the deck ...
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At a point in the innings Stokes & Bairstow were going at almost 7 runs an over. SA fast bowlers - Rabada and Morris have no clue on what to do when pushed to a corner. All they did was kept banging the ball on the deck ...
on the sky coverage they put session stats for today on
Pretty sure the morning session was about 7.8
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Is anyone other than Sky running highlights from today's play?
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It will be on mycrickethighlights.com if you fancy watching it on a iPad/phone
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It will be on mycrickethighlights.com if you fancy watching it on a iPad/phone
Never heard of this will look later 👍
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At least the Saffers are making a game of it
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Root dropped one of Jimmy
Jimmy drops one of root
Both of these could have been back in the shed. Catches win matches they say.
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Even with 2 and a half days still to go it's hard to see a result, probably need to follow on to have time and that'll leave the bowlers knackered. Worth a shot though with a decent break between the tests and a 5 man attack.
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Even with 2 and a half days still to go it's hard to see a result, probably need to follow on to have time and that'll leave the bowlers knackered. Worth a shot though with a decent break between the tests and a 5 man attack.
By the sounds of it, we'll have to bowl SA out, as we keep dropping them!!
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England are just sitting in for the time being, waiting for the new ball and hoping the track might start to mis-behave. Add 2 wickets to the score and things won't look so good for SA. I suspect the afternoon session will be the key session today. England knock over these two plus a couple more and it's game on.
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By the sounds of it, we'll have to bowl SA out, as we keep dropping them!!
I stuck 25 on a draw towards the end of day one so that'll do me :)
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South Africans premier duos racking up the landmarks thus far on day 3. AB moves passed 8000 Test runs and Amla moved passed 7000 quickly followed up by moving to his 24th Test hundred. The bearded monk is back in business.
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Roots bowling action seems rather dodgy now!
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Roots bowling action seems rather dodgy now!
Dodgy as in illegal?
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Third chance is shelled.
This time Compton of finn. We really are throwing the momentum away in this game.
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the drops continue...at this rate these 2 will pass stokes and bairstow's partnership.
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They keep rattling on about Anderson and broad changing the field as not wanting to go for runs.
We had a 1st innings lead of 629 runs.
Why on earth would you have anything but 4 slips 2 Tilly's and a short leg until they pass 450??
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FFS - sod the fielding changes. Just try hanging on to a catch!!!!!! Dropping 3 catches out of 3 is pathetic at this level of cricket!
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We've held on to one!! Woohoo.
Hopefully the apparent collapse after these two can happen now.....
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THE HEAVENS HAVE OPENED
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Faf edges first ball with no Carry.....
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FFS - sod the fielding changes. Just try hanging on to a catch!!!!!! Dropping 3 catches out of 3 is pathetic at this level of cricket!
At least Jimmy listened to me!!
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South Africa have 250+ for that first time in 12 innings
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This is a real role reversal!!
In the past it has been SA playing attacking and aggressive innings at decent run rates! And England retreating into their shells and slowing down to almost a stop!! Looking at cricinfo commentary England were aggressive and attacking! And SA innings gone at 2.8 runs per over with the last 10 overs going at 1.7 runs an over! That is definite old school England cricket but played by SA!
Quite funny to look at this reversal of playing styles ;)
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And now onto bowl Mr P. Chucka
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Hales looking accurate. And a career economy of 1 so far....
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This is a real role reversal!!
In the past it has been SA playing attacking and aggressive innings at decent run rates! And England retreating into their shells and slowing down to almost a stop!! Looking at cricinfo commentary England were aggressive and attacking! And SA innings gone at 2.8 runs per over with the last 10 overs going at 1.7 runs an over! That is definite old school England cricket but played by SA!
Quite funny to look at this reversal of playing styles ;)
In recent times when South Africa have been under pressure they seem to bat in this dig in for dear life method. But then again when you concede it's probably unwise to go in and try and belt everything
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And now onto bowl Mr P. Chucka
Hales looking accurate. And a career economy of 1 so far....
Hales was a bowler who batted 10 until he was 16!
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Loving Hales having the time of his life floating some grenades down. I'd like to see him bowl to Stokes mind!
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Right Arm Rapid. Keep going son, might just catch someone napping you never know! As long as he's not going for runs.
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Right then.
Looks like 9 wickets in 3 days. Off which 2 were run outs.
How long till the pitch is questioned etc. like Trent bridge was a while back(in the game I believe Gary Ballance and Alastair Cook was bowling)
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Right then.
Looks like 9 wickets in 3 days. Off which 2 were run outs.
How long till the pitch is questioned etc. like Trent bridge was a while back(in the game I believe Gary Ballance and Alastair Cook was bowling)
England shelled a few catches, which had they been taken, South African could've been following on.
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England shelled a few catches, which had they been taken, South African could've been following on.
Very good point.
Oh well let's see what next two days bring. South Africa not scoring quick enough to go past us and out au under pressure.
So see if England can get another 7 tomorrow morning. Bat for a session then have another crack......
It be a draw though
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Right then.
Looks like 9 wickets in 3 days. Off which 2 were run outs.
How long till the pitch is questioned etc. like Trent bridge was a while back(in the game I believe Gary Ballance and Alastair Cook was bowling)
as good as stokes and JB batted, and it was brilliant, you can't bat like that unless the pitch is an absolute belter,so it was always tough going getting 20 wickets on it. England have shelled a couple thou which hav'nt helped
Doffed Cap to Amla, he may not be one of the best captains out there but he has some backbone the way he has batted.
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Very good point.
Oh well let's see what next two days bring. South Africa not scoring quick enough to go past us and out au under pressure.
So see if England can get another 7 tomorrow morning. Bat for a session then have another crack......
It be a draw though
TBH I think South Africa would be happy, in a sense, to get within 100 runs of England but batting until tea tomorrow.
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Listened to Radio 5 live on my laptop for 30 minutes and I'm bored @&$#less already!
If I had of paid good money to see this live, I would have gone to the bar and drunk myself stupid by now.
Time to listen to another radio station before I fall asleep at my desk ???
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South Africa's wheelhouse(Amla, ABDV and FdP)getting back into form. Could be revitalised if Steyn and Philander are fit for the last two Tests.
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TBH I think South Africa would be happy, in a sense, to get within 100 runs of England but batting until tea tomorrow.
Wonder what money is on Amla making 400 plus by tea on day 5???
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Wonder what money is on Amla making 400 plus by tea on day 5???
I'd say under 0.5%
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This has probably been said before somewhere, but does anyone know who Faf Du Plessis is sponsored by?
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I thought they were called IXU?
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Yeah i got confused by the unusual stickers, funky came straight to mind, village!
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There's never been an individual 300 in South Africa, maybe Amla is eyeing that up...
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I thought they were called IXU?
thanks
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I think this game looks all set for a draw. SA for one won't risk losing a game coming from a defeat. I would expect them to get past the follow on mark for sure, but anything near 550 or so means we are staring at a draw.
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With Root shelling AB and Anderson returning the favour with Amla, England missed a great chance to have SA 200-4 prior to the new ball. Game on.
Now 350 odd for 3 and the follow on if pretty much a formality. It's up to England tomorrow to get through SA and protect what lead they have left. The longer SA bat the more limited Englands chance of having a dash 3rd innings. If SA bat 2 sessions for another 150 then England will only have a 130 lead and 4 sessions to make something happen. At best they will have to bat 1.5 sessions even then to put up a decent total. SA get any closer or take any longer and the last day could be very dull.
We need the pitch to fall apart pretty quickly to make this test interesting. It's not showing any signs so far.
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Seems the one silver lining of having to return to work today was being able to avoid watching the cricket today!
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Seems the like the pitch had been built to bolster SA batting confidence ...
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As a venue, new lands generally gets a result. The team with the first innings lead should win...
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200 for Amla..Not his best, had a bit of luck but 200 nonetheless. Probably on course for another 300 against England.
SA should just continue batting on and on. No chance of a result
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Nice batting by Amla and Faf. Follow on is gone ... Test is heading for a draw.
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Doesn't look like a pitch you can take 10 wickets easily on the 5th day, setting SA a total to get on day 5 like 250 could be dangerous however it could seriously inject some pace back into the match.
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Dodgy as in illegal?
Seems so. Looks just like Williamson prior to his remodeling
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I don't think this is a nailed on draw as some are suggesting. Even if England get a lead of 100 runs, they could've been in the field for almost 200 overs. So tighter minds can do silly things. The South African pacers will be well rested so can tear in.
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Also England's team selection was to conservative for this match. Anderson might have 400 poles but he doesn't look fit, barely bowling 130kph at times. England should've gambled on Footitt someone capable of 145-150kph
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Not Amla's best ever innings but his energy levels are quite incredible. He's been on the field for basically the whole match
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Also England's team selection was to conservative for this match. Anderson might have 400 poles but he doesn't look fit, barely bowling 130kph at times. England should've gambled on Footitt someone capable of 145-150kph
At the end of day 3 Anderson was still running in and touching 139kph. He operates between 130-140 most of the time. If Root could catch he would of had ab fairly early on.
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Broad finally breaches the defences of Hashim Amla for 201
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looking like some brilliant batting on show from both but nothing in the track to get a result
anyone know if the other 2 venues are result pitches? or more of the same....
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Mind god it's like buses - 2 fall at once!
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GAME ON
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At the end of day 3 Anderson was still running in and touching 139kph. He operates between 130-140 most of the time. If Root could catch he would of had ab fairly early on.
But Anderson is only bowling 4 over spells. He's hardly express that he'd be shot to pieces bowling longer spells
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But Anderson is only bowling 4 over spells. He's hardly express that he'd be shot to pieces bowling longer spells
Well I saw the spell last evening and it was 6 overs. Given the amount of bowling they have had to do and the heat I don't think short spells are a bad thing. Not like its a Trent bridge green top on a overcast cold day - he would be doing 10 over spells then!
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It's the game right here. Get Bavuma and QdK out and get a lead of 150. If they stay in both are quick scoring and could eat into that lead.
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Much as it upsets me to agree with the Aussie fellow, I do think Anderson has looked a bit insipid and tender so far.
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QdK gone to Broad. 6/449. 180 behind
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Tea on day 4 South Africa have reached 6/525. Trailing by 104 runs. Bavuma has 50* and Morris 24*. Entertaining partnership of 76 runs.
Draw looks nailed on but id SA can get a lead of 50-70 they could put some pressure on England late on day 5.
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well hopefully nip them out by the morning for around par then bat tomorrow out with Hales and Cook getting some time in the middle must be the plan
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Pitch is crying out for a half decent leg spinner.
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When England declared I wondered if batting an hour after tea on day 2 wasn't better. The rate they were going, another 150 was possible and you would of avoided England having to bat out day 5. 700-750 sounds overkill but SA are creeping up to parity now.
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Are we bothered at this point? It was always going to be either skittle them or they'd grind it out for a draw like they're doing now...
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When England declared I wondered if batting an hour after tea on day 2 wasn't better. The rate they were going, another 150 was possible and you would of avoided England having to bat out day 5. 700-750 sounds overkill but SA are creeping up to parity now.
I don't think many people thought SA would reach Eng's total with the attack we have but it just shows how flat the deck has gotten being cooked for 4 days. Lets hope they don't set a total then us capitulate catastrophically tomorrow
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England have shelled around 7-9 chances so far. Bavuma dropped by Bairstow
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is the pitch that flat or have neither side been good enough to take 20 wickets on it?
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is the pitch that flat or have neither side been good enough to take 20 wickets on it?
I think the likes of Johnson and Starc could take wickets similar to what they done at Lords last year, take the pitch out of the equation and aim for the stumps using raw pace!
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is the pitch that flat or have neither side been good enough to take 20 wickets on it?
Well South Africa's attack had three bowlers with 10 caps between them. Might've been a different story if Steyn and Philander where playing.
Similarly with England you ain't winning too many matches if you drop 9 catches
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very true
I sort of want bavuma to get a ton now as would be good for the young lad
can't see amla declaring at all as the bowlers may lynch him if he did
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This pitch calling out for a leg spinner.
Meanwhile in Australia
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h76/smilley792/5F8865DD-1F43-4EA9-B590-1639BA5D1806_zps0rrrjyog.png) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/smilley792/media/5F8865DD-1F43-4EA9-B590-1639BA5D1806_zps0rrrjyog.png.html)
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600 plays 600. Much rather have a pitch turning from day 1 and the test match ending in 3 days then this pitch!
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This pitch calling out for a leg spinner.
Meanwhile in Australia
([url]http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h76/smilley792/5F8865DD-1F43-4EA9-B590-1639BA5D1806_zps0rrrjyog.png[/url]) ([url]http://s61.photobucket.com/user/smilley792/media/5F8865DD-1F43-4EA9-B590-1639BA5D1806_zps0rrrjyog.png.html[/url])
I was just thinking this yesterday!
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I wonder if SA could shuffle their pack for centurion with de Kock opening so they can play 5 bowlers
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Hold the press England have held a catch! Debutant Chris Morris goes for 69. Finn gets a deserving wicket. 7/616
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Hold the press England have held a catch! Debutant Chris Morris goes for 69. Finn gets a deserving wicket. 7/616
Been the pick of the bowlers for me.
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South Africa, somewhat incredibly, had zero 100 run partnerships in 2015. They've racked up 3 in this innings.
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Hold the press England have held a catch! Debutant Chris Morris goes for 69. Finn gets a deserving wicket. 7/616
Why do you feel the need to post to say what has happened?
I'm pretty sure everyone has access to at least one of TV, radio, streaming or a better commentary online than yours!
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Why do you feel the need to post to say what has happened?
I'm pretty sure everyone has access to at least one of TV, radio, streaming or a better commentary online than yours!
Feel free to use the ignore button...
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Historic century for Temba Bavuma, the first ethnic black South African to register a Test hundred. Brilliant innings.
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Not sure why Amla declared, should have continued to bat. No chance of a result.
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Feel free to use the ignore button...
Careful what you wish for, nobody will ever see your posts... ;)
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Not sure why Amla declared, should have continued to bat. No chance of a result.
Remember, this is England we're on about here...
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I'd have tried for 3 more runs before declaration. Seems daft to bat all that time and declare only 2 runs behind haha
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I'd have tried for 3 more runs before declaration. Seems daft to bat all that time and declare only 2 runs behind haha
Must have also cost a few punters some money!
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I suspect the thought of the tail blocking out half the balls and slowing the rate any lead might accumulate didn't appeal to Amla. Had Morris still been there he might of been tempted to bat on into the morning and leave England 50-100 behind with 5 hours to bat.
On the plus side England only need to bat 2 sessions to kill the game on what appears to still be a good deck. Key for England is tempo, score at 3.5-4 runs an over and get 150+ ahead by lunch without too many down. The game will be virtually out of reach. If they crawl to 100 by early afternoon then SA will still have a chance even by tea.
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As a venue, new lands generally gets a result. The team with the first innings lead should win...
Amla has just thrown the game away with that declaration then, what a muppet! :D
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It would be great if Hales and Cook could get scores tomorrow and England just bat the day out and keep the SA bowlers out there all day to wear them down some more but I can forsee a mad hour or so that puts a result in minds then it go quiet for the draw
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Hales to score a quick ton tomorrow
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Takes a great team to come back and post 627 runs! Love watching Amla, Faf, and ABD in action!
How tall is Bevuma? What a great knock! Bevuma representing short batsmen from all over.
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10 catches put down by England! Time to do some catching drills.
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South Africa to win this?
It's pretty typical England. Go from a seemingly inpossible to lose situation while up in a series.
Drop ten catches, many of which Could have put us in a very good position to win.
And then be in a position to lose and South Africa take the momentum for rest of series.......
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England making it interesting both Cook and Hales gone early doors. Chris Morris with a stunning catch to remove Hales
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Great start so far! Cue every one saying Hales isn't a test opener even though he got out to one of the better fast bowlers in international cricket and a worldie of a catch :D
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massive save that for root. Morkel must take the most number of wickets of no balls!
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S'alright lads, I wouldn't worry. Compton's set for a blockathon...
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handy no-ball that one
amazing the amount of wickets off no-balls in recent matches....
every bowler ive seen recently except jimmy Anderson pushes it right to the line....
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S'alright lads, I wouldn't worry. Compton's set for a blockathon...
come in and rescue us Nick again with yr Indian bat
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Game over RIP England Cricket
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Wow crackerjack delivery from the Morris dancer snares Root!
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No ball doesn't matter any more, some ball to get rid of root. Didn't get forward though
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Game over RIP England Cricket
There's still enough time for Stokes to belt another 200
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Chris Morris has a hint of South Africa legend Shaun Pollock about his game.
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@Aussie In England - did you watch the first innings?!
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Would be a great day for a James Taylor maiden test ton.....just sayin
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@Aussie In England - did you watch the first innings?!
In the terms of a three dimensional cricketer. Bats, bowls and fields. Obviously he got licked in the first dig but that's unlikely to happen every time
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I really hopes this turns out to be a cracker of a day and not just limp through a drab draw!
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James Taylor <3
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Just seen Root's dismissal, very reminiscent of a certain recently dropped ginger top order batsman. With all his recent classy 50 and outs... has Root caught Bell-itis?
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horrible rumour the immovable blocker is out.....
this is getting a bit........worrying......
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horrible rumour the immovable blocker is out.....
this is getting a bit........worrying......
The immovable blocker clipped a terrible shot straight to midwicket...
Stokes to blaze a ton in the second session and England to declare and bowl SA out after tea, you heard it here first!
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we will be bowling wides at 3pm with everyone on the offside !! where's harmy when you need him
test cricket has to be the most unpredictable sport ever, who would of thought we would be hanging on in this match!!!
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The immovable blocker clipped a terrible shot straight to midwicket...
Stokes to blaze a ton in the second session and England to declare and bowl SA out after tea, you heard it here first!
I'm with you mate but you missed the word "double" before ton haha
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A wobble on a "batting paradise"...wonder if this is enough to make Michael Vaughan suspicious of foul play....
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Should England lose this one it will be a first can't think of any other test match where 600 plus runs have been scored in the 1st inning and the team have gone on to lose the match.
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England making it interesting both Cook and Hales gone early doors.
Again! Are people going to start asking questions about Captain C again he seems to be struggling a bit in the last couple of tests.
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Trust England to fold like a pack of cards. 6 down for 116.
Could the Saffa's get a win here?
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Stokes Bairstow to blaze a ton in the second session and England to declare and bowl SA out after tea, you heard it here first!
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Cricket can do one.
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Did I say Stokes? I meant any ginger England batsman... please... :(
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Did I say Stokes? I meant any ginger England batsman... please... :(
Or Mo for that matter, if he saves us I'll stop saying that I'd rather have Rashid for at least the duration of this series!
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How come SA don't pick Imran Tahir anymore...is he too old?? He'd be all over us in this situation alongside the offie
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Again! Are people going to start asking questions about Captain C again he seems to be struggling a bit in the last couple of tests.
You're kidding right? He scored 260 odd just 8 weeks ago. And scored 1300 runs in 2015.
Better players than Cook have struggled in South Africa eg Dravid
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this could come down to the Watford wall or burnley lara
got to love being an England fan
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You're kidding right? He scored 260 odd just 8 weeks ago. And scored 1300 runs in 2015.
Better players than Cook have struggled in South Africa eg Dravid
Exactly. People who doubt Cook want their heads examined, him and Warner are the best openers in test cricket by a country mile at the moment and have been for a few years.
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if we get around 180-200 (long way off) I think we may see a different batting order from SA with de cock and de Villiers up the order to have a dart
could be an exciting finish
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if we get around 180-200 (long way off) I think we may see a different batting order from SA with de cock and de Villiers up the order to have a dart
could be an exciting finish
Think they'd open with QdK and Amla then ABDV. Three of the premier ODI batsmen.
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How come SA don't pick Imran Tahir anymore...is he too old?? He'd be all over us in this situation alongside the offie
Because you have to bowl in both innings and he bowls a lot of pies. If Tahir played Stokes might've got 500...
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COME ON LADS!!! hang on in there
Bob Willis is going to be creaming himself on the verdict tonight if we go under here,don't give him the satisfaction!!!!
:) >:(
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40 over left today is there?
144 ahead so 3 1/2 an over
could end up being a 20/20 chase here but I think if we bat another 15 overs we should be safe
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Don't think that could have been any closer for JB
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Oof, think he's got away with that one!
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Doesn't matter with the weather closing in.
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South Africa missing the SteynRemover against the lower order
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We have been spared of a defeat. Still feeling rather dejected though, only England could score 629 and not win...
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We have been spared of a defeat. Still feeling rather dejected though, only England could score 629 and not win...
hang on there Rockin' Rick....1st Test Pak v us they got 600 plus, we got whatever we got,bowled them out and with an extra 15 mins would have won in the gloom as the Ginge started putting Riaz into the stands on the last afternoon
We would never have done that years back, hasn't the game moved on so these types of games will be more common?
:)
:)
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Draw confirmed, Stokes gets MoM but on another day could have been Bairstow, Amla or Bavuma to be fair.
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All that drama, second fastest 200 of all time, most runs in a session, record partnerships, maiden test tons, return to form of Amla, 1st ton by a black African, late flurry of wickets and in the end they shake hands and call it a draw. This is why people don't understand cricket, but those who do love it so much.
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Amla just quit the captaincy.......
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All that drama, second fastest 200 of all time, most runs in a session, record partnerships, maiden test tons, return to form of Amla, 1st ton by a black African, late flurry of wickets and in the end they shake hands and call it a draw. This is why people don't understand cricket, but those who do love it so much.
Well said! My mrs always is one such who doesn't understand, she's often heard to be saying "how can a game last for 5 days and still no one wins"
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Yeah well said. There's no better format of the game. :)
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Amla just quit the captaincy.......
good move if that's true.He's proved he can bat under real pressure in this game and skipper but his runs are vital to South Africa more than his skippering...which let's be honest he's not cut out for.
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South Africa needs Amla's batting over his captaincy everyday of the week. Shame though as ABDV will now get lumbered with the extra responsibility
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Amla just quit the captaincy.......
Monkey off his back
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South Africa needs Amla's batting over his captaincy everyday of the week. Shame though as ABDV will now get lumbered with the extra responsibility
Agreed. Is there anyone else who would be considered a senior player though? Apart from Steyn, Morkel and maybe Elgar, nearly everyone else's place is under threat, or at least not set in stone.
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not really going to reduce ABDV workload if they give him the captaincy
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Agreed. Is there anyone else who would be considered a senior player though? Apart from Steyn, Morkel and maybe Elgar, nearly everyone else's place is under threat, or at least not set in stone.
I said previously Elgar would be the man if I was in charge. Can't be Steyn, firstly he's the gun bowler but secondly he's injury prone. Morkel is too laid back to be skipper. Maybe AB will be a short term gig until Smith unretires...😉
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ABDV named skipper for the rest of the series
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I said previously Elgar would be the man if I was in charge. Can't be Steyn, firstly he's the gun bowler but secondly he's injury prone. Morkel is too laid back to be skipper. Maybe AB will be a short term gig until Smith unretires...😉
I'm agreeing with you twice today, something's gone wrong ;) Elgar seems a good character to me, gritty, determined, doesn't back down kinda bloke.
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It was being discussed on TMS before the series started that Amla was a reluctant captain - no wonder his form's suffered.
Very interesting to see who gets the role - can't see AB doing it long term... Is the Graeme Smith returning to help the squad a smoke screen for actually returning to play? He's been very coy about it on TMS...
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Think Smith is playing in the Dubai Masters first, only retired players can play in that for big money, then he could return in time for when Australia go to South Africa
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It was being discussed on TMS before the series started that Amla was a reluctant captain - no wonder his form's suffered.
Very interesting to see who gets the role - can't see AB doing it long term... Is the Graeme Smith returning to help the squad a smoke screen for actually returning to play? He's been very coy about it on TMS...
he was similarly very coy when quizzed on it on Sky - got a bit awkward at one point cause Smith was ribbing someone for sitting on the fence about and opinion and then the commentator (might have been HD) fired back about the rumours of him coming back. Michael Holding smoothed it over very well though but Smith certainly went a bit quiet
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Think Smith is playing in the Dubai Masters first, only retired players can play in that for big money, then he could return in time for when Australia go to South Africa
How come Brendan Taylor from Notts is playing then?
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this is all very interesting.Personally I thought Smith retired because he had a chronic Achilles problem which would not go away.He then some a lot of time in Ireland with his wife and prompty retired.....
he's not with the misses anymore I don't think so is free to go where he wants
but is he actually fit, as in could he be fit to play or is his injury really career threatening?
He was due to play at Surrey but it was injury that put the mockers on that too.....
Smith is only 33 or 34 def not too old IF he wants to come back and IF he is fit.
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How come Brendan Taylor from Notts is playing then?
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Retired international players. Taylor is a kolpak so assuming he's never going back to Zimbabwe
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Anyway after Steyn declared himself fit for Jo'burg, Cricket South Africa has rated him as only "50/50". Whilst Philander is out of the whole series. Abbott is fit again.
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Amla quit as captain?
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Anyway after Steyn declared himself fit for Jo'burg, Cricket South Africa has rated him as only "50/50". Whilst Philander is out of the whole series. Abbott is fit again.
Be interesting to see who gets binned off if Abbott plays, wouldn't want to see them drop Rabada but they clearly like that Morris can bat/pluck them out of thin air at slip.
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Be interesting to see who gets binned off if Abbott plays, wouldn't want to see them drop Rabada but they clearly like that Morris can bat/pluck them out of thin air at slip.
No idea how they'll balance their side. Rumours suggest they want to play 4 quicks at Jo'burg therefore Piedt misses out. That would mean they wouldn't meet the quota. Only Amla, Bavuma and Rabada would play if Steyn/Abbott played
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strange theory.
Chris Morris was the one that gave South Africa a chance to win. Without him they'd have lost.
Yes stokes smoked him, but ignore that. Had viljoen played instead they'd have lost.
England first innings, with the above playing on a Dead pitch, chances are England would have still gone big and declared. It was that flat! It may have been 550 not 630 but still a big score.
South Africa reply, all going well till amla du plessis and de kock fall.
No Morris to put on a big total with bavuma, so South Africa 450 all out with long tail.
England put on 250-300 on fast. And South Africa in trouble today batting as better bowling condition and lost.
Chris Morris was the key!!! There decision to play him coz he bats worked!!!!
That's my theory anyway.
Other theory. Test cricket played by nations that go slow will still be the best.
This game, stokes and bairstow played at a fair lick, but South Africa batting slowly for 210 overs meant England was tired, batted poorly and they had a chance to win, not England.
Go back to uae, Pakistan scored quick by attacking our spinners, but cook batting for 2 days and very slowly, meant Pakistan was tired and failed innings two.
Both games, the team batting time and slowly accumulating there runs had the chance to win at the end!
Never under estimate the power of tiring out your oponents much more effective than runs quickly it seems!!
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Might play diminey as a part time spinner number 6. Probably van zyl missing out and bavuma opening, which he did in India. Gets another quick in and keeps the quota.
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Might play diminey as a part time spinner number 6. Probably van zyl missing out and bavuma opening, which he did in India. Gets another quick in and keeps the quota.
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Can't see the point in ruining another player(Bavuma) by forcing him to open. van Zyl isn't an opener. They need a proper opener such as Stephen Cook. They'll have to consider axing du Plessis for Duminy if Piedt is dropped.
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Van Zyl hasn't had the best of luck but can't see Bavuma being any worse and he has opened for SA in the India series. Who knows?
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Good for Amla!!!! He should focus on getting runs and runs only. Cook should do that as well, hand the captaincy to Benji who is a fighter. Root should focus on runs too, captaincy is a trap.
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Might play diminey as a part time spinner number 6. Probably van zyl missing out and bavuma opening, which he did in India. Gets another quick in and keeps the quota.
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This would make good sense - I was thinking if they went with 4 seamers then duminy would come in but got a bit lost trying to work out who'd drop out
I think duminy and Morris add a nice bit of balance to the team
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Another option is to put de kock in to open and play JP at 7.
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With AB taking the helm you'd think de kock will get a decent run now
Out of interest have they announced who's the VC, I'm assuming du Plessis?
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With AB taking the helm you'd think de kock will get a decent run now
Out of interest have they announced who's the VC, I'm assuming du Plessis?
Think the captaincy hasn't been permanently given to De Villiers yet so no VC.
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With AB taking the helm you'd think de kock will get a decent run now
Out of interest have they announced who's the VC, I'm assuming du Plessis?
AB is not going to keep anymore, so they don't have an option but to retain Quinton in the line up. Quinton is an opener in shorter formats and SA should let him open in test match with Dean. Van Zyl should be given a break to improve himself.
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Think the captaincy hasn't been permanently given to De Villiers yet so no VC.
If they announce Faf as VC, then he will never be replaced ... It restricts the options for SA too much. They should go with Dean or Mokel as vice-captain.
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strange theory.
Chris Morris was the one that gave South Africa a chance to win. Without him they'd have lost.
Agree with you on this one. Morris was the last batsman in the line up who put up some resistance and offered support to Bavuma. Otherwise SA were looking at 450~500. Given that this team hasn't managed to reach any of this big score in 2015, i would think they would have walked away very happy even for a score of 450 to 500.
Next match, SA should bat first put big runs on board and then let England chase them ... Second test match has definitely boosted their confidence in batting and bowling department is looking strong with Steyn declaring himself fit for duty.
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So Dale Steyn has been ruled out of the third Test with his damaged shoulder. Russell Domingo has stated Morne Morkel is 'in the red zone', but without Steyn and Philander I can't see South Africa leaving out the big lad. They are comtemplating an all seam attack though, with would see Hardus Viljoen debut in place of Piedt. JP Duminy scored 260* for Cape Town so could replace van Zyl, as Stephan Cook is still overlooked despite hitting his 35th FC hundred last week.
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I think the toss will be extra important. If England bat first and can go big against an inexperienced seam attack, this time including a possibly reduced Morkel (who along with Finn I thought was the pick of the bowlers in the last test), they could put real pressure on a SA batting unit looking to save the series.
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From reading a few reports the track should be a better contest, the groundsman reckons 350 would be a very good score and Cricinfo's preview said 300+ generally happens in the first innings.
I think it'll a 'he who bats first wins' game. Can't wait, hoping to see more progress from Hales, Cook find some form and Root to stop making an easy 60-80 and going to a bigger score. Oh, and a few catches to be held this time!
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I think bowl first and bat once might be the order of the day here. brave call though. Could be a good toss to lose.
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I think bowl first and bat once might be the order of the day here. brave call though. Could be a good toss to lose.
Too brave a call for Cook I think, he'd get crucified if he did that and SA put on 400+
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if this wicket has a bit more in not sure if that's good news or bad news for us. Jimmy can look a bit ordinary when it's not moving,Finn is bowling well and so is Broad. Ali...well unless it turns big don't think he will get wickets.
I just hope we hav'nt lost the 'momentum' from the last match.The break between matches hopefully maybe has done us good?
I still think even if it's 1-1 at the end we have done well
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I still think even if it's 1-1 at the end we have done well
Fair point, I think a lot of English fans would have settled for 1-1 against SA away before the tour started.
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Fair point, I think a lot of English fans would have settled for 1-1 against SA away before the tour started.
yeah but it's the same old story as fans...yeah 1-1 we'd take that. Now we are 1-0 up thou we want a series victory! :) :)
I just worry we have played so well so far we can't keep it up....there's always a big collapse waiting around the corner somewhere with England.
Steyn being out is handy thou..
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yeah but it's the same old story as fans...yeah 1-1 we'd take that. Now we are 1-0 up thou we want a series victory! :) :)
I just worry we have played so well so far we can't keep it up....there's always a big collapse waiting around the corner somewhere with England.
Steyn being out is handy thou..
We have played well but it has been our less consistent players who have played well, surely Cook or Root is due a ton, I also fancy a maiden test ton for Taylor by the end of the series.
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Whilst the South African attack seems weakened on paper, should Morris and Viljoen play the Wanderers is their home ground. So that normally gets a players juices following.
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Viljoen bowls a quick but heavy ball, he could get up a few of our batsmen so I'd like to see him play and test the boys out.
I'd get rid of Peidt I don't really see him to be good enough. We've been paying him far too much respect
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Viljoen bowls a quick but heavy ball, he could get up a few of our batsmen so I'd like to see him play and test the boys out.
I'd get rid of Peidt I don't really see him to be good enough. We've been paying him far too much respect
I'm always inclined to have a spinner and I think Piedt could become South Africa's Lyon.
But with de Villiers as skipper they could play their four quicks plus Duminy as their spinner. Elgar also bowls some left arm 'spin'
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Yes I forgot to mention I'd utilise Duminy as the spinner, I don't see Peidt as being any better than him, so bolsters the batting aswell
So yeh, I agree with you
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Piedt doesn't look anything much at first glance but he's bowled pretty well to be fair, not going to run through a side but he does a decent job and picked up good wickets. If it seams it'll spin, so I'd be keeping him in. England have the luxury of not having to make the choice with Stokes in the side.
Love the suspense going into a test where the wicket looks like it'll do a bit, hopefully pace and seam will be there and make a good test. Suspect the test will hinge on one or two good innings, fingers crossed they're by the English top order!
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Cooks tactics being one up win the toss bat get a big score ensure you don't lose
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Cooks tactics being one up win the toss bat get a big score ensure you don't lose
Fingers crossed! Don't see it happening if all the chat about the wicket is somewhere near the mark though.
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So piedt and rousow released from squad to play for there franchises.
So that means peidt has been dropped.
So what's the xi for South Africa?
Duminy and viljoen in for piedt and van zyl??
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So piedt and rousow released fri squad to play for there franchises.
So that means pest has been dropped.
So what's the xi for South Africa?
Duminy and viljoen in for piedt and van zyl??
Was going to mention this. ABDV mentioned in his press conference that he was very excited about team selection
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Lions franchise will be pretty chuffed if Rabada, Morris and Viljoen play on their home ground together.
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So piedt and rousow released from squad to play for there franchises.
So that means peidt has been dropped.
So what's the xi for South Africa?
Duminy and viljoen in for piedt and van zyl??
I reckon Abbott, morris, Viljoen, Morkal and Rabada will all play.
So, Elgar, Amla, Faf, AB, de cock and bavumma then bowlers
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I reckon Abbott, morris, Viljoen, Morkal and Rabada will all play.
So, Elgar, Amla, Faf, AB, de cock and bavumma then bowlers
That doesn't forfill the quota though, does it??
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That doesn't forfill the quota though, does it??
I suspect you are right. only 3 out of 4 :( Oh well, seamers wicket.. let's lose a seamer for a pie chucker :( :(
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Hales ill, selection to be assessed tomorrow morning! Are we at risk of Ballance coming back in, maybe to open?
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Hales ill, selection to be assessed tomorrow morning! Are we at risk of Ballance coming back in, maybe to open?
Wow.....that would send the forum into overdrive :) :)
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Surely if Hales misses out Compton would open with Ballance/Taylor at 3/5?
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Compton will open and Ballance at 3.
Or Taylor at 3 and balance at 5.
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Surely if Hales misses out Compton would open with Ballance/Taylor at 3/5?
Maybe, Compton is much more of an strength at 3 than opening with Cook for me though, and I'd rather bat one bloke out of their usual position than 2/3/4 guys moving. Not sure what England would actually do of course. Send out Big Samit and tell him to get on with it!
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Compton will open and Ballance at 3.
Or Taylor at 3 and balance at 5.
That would seem only logical, got plenty of cover.
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EEYORE IS SO HAPPY RIGHT NOW
FILTHY FILTHY Saviour HALES WILL BE OUT OF THE TEST TEAM.. WOOOOO. Don't like them messing Compton about but hey ho, they've not taken anymore proper batsmen with them so it has to happen and Balance has to come in at 3. Still, if it's a seamers paradise then we might be glad of more proper batting.. can't do worse than Hales anyway!! Leave Taylor alone, he's not a top order batsmen.. very much middle order
EEYORE
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South Africa aren't gonna play 5 batsmen and their keeper and 5 fast bowlers. Makes no sense whatsoever. If you play 5 front line fast bowlers, one will be underused.
That said the bowlers with the best FC record at the Wanderers are Viljoen, Morris, Abbott and Rabada. But would South Africa consider leaving out Morkel, when Steyn and Philander are already missing? Very unlikely.
Duminy will come in the little Bavuma might be forced into opening
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I think Gary at 3 adds more balance to the line up.
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South Africa aren't gonna play 5 batsmen and their keeper and 5 fast bowlers. Makes no sense whatsoever. If you play 5 front line fast bowlers, one will be underused.
That said the bowlers with the best FC record at the Wanderers are Viljoen, Morris, Abbott and Rabada. But would South Africa consider leaving out Morkel, when Steyn and Philander are already missing? Very unlikely.
Duminy will come in the little Bavuma might be forced into opening
Going off what Morris did last game you could aruge he's a pretty good number 7 in his own right and saffas love de cock's biffing. Morkal is apparently 'in the red' for the fitness gurus so is due a rest. Still, from a England POV.. hope they play Dummy and promote titch up to opening as that should suit the England bowlers down to the group.. rabbit up top and a weak minded bloke at 6.. win win
if SA are producing a seamers wicket.. why not go all out in the hope of smashing through englands not overly good batting line up and aiming for a bowler dominated low scoring game?
EEYORE
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I think Gary at 3 adds more balance to the line up.
I think it totally unbalances things.
Hales is likely to play anyway.
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Compton to open is surely Englands the best option.
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Can't see it being a prepared (on purpose) seamers wicket. Taking an almighty risk with 2 guys with 700+ test wickets and another with a strike rate under 50, against an attack with a half dozen caps between 3 seamers. More likely a hard bouncy but essentially true deck, which SA hope will exploit Englands supposed weakness at altitude.
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Looks like de Kock will move up to open to accommodate Duminy. Imagine if England bat for 120/150 overs, de Kock will be knackered
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Can't see it being a prepared (on purpose) seamers wicket. Taking an almighty risk with 2 guys with 700+ test wickets and another with a strike rate under 50, against an attack with a half dozen caps between 3 seamers. More likely a hard bouncy but essentially true deck, which SA hope will exploit Englands supposed weakness at altitude.
hard and bouncy could expose players like Hales, Moeen and co to the short ball which we know they are awful against .. uuhh oohh
EEYORE
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Looks like de Kock will move up to open to accommodate Duminy. Imagine if England bat for 120/150 overs, de Kock will be knackered
what a dumb idea... good for England though.. He'll flash and get out anyway so the higher up he is the better for England. Sure let him open
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Going off what Morris did last game you could aruge he's a pretty good number 7 in his own right and saffas love de cock's biffing. Morkal is apparently 'in the red' for the fitness gurus so is due a rest. Still, from a England POV.. hope they play Dummy and promote titch up to opening as that should suit the England bowlers down to the group.. rabbit up top and a weak minded bloke at 6.. win win
if SA are producing a seamers wicket.. why not go all out in the hope of smashing through englands not overly good batting line up and aiming for a bowler dominated low scoring game?
EEYORE
If you want to win games it's the bowlers that will do that ....let's be honest if it was England 1-0 down we would be preparing wickets for our bowling attack,whether that's spinning ones when we had Swann or seamers with Jimmy A and Broad/Wood.
If that's what SA are going to do great, it's exciting cricket and the batsmen have it too easy these days,they will have to earn their runs.
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what a dumb idea... good for England though.. He'll flash and get out anyway so the higher up he is the better for England. Sure let him open
de Kock could be their version of Warner TBH.
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de Kock could be their version of Warner TBH.
Warner, he's just a poor man's Alex Hales ;)
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de Kock could be their version of Warner TBH.
it would be a very poor version,our bowlers will sort out de cock
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Warner, he's just a poor man's Alex Hales ;)
I'm feeling it bro, Warner wishes he averaged mid 20s instead of 50+ ;)
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it would be a very poor version,our bowlers will sort out de cock
Carlo - do you think our bowlers might get de cock out?
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I mean, with de cock going in first, the rest could be shagged!
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Do you think Anderson could deliver the kind of balls de cock wants?
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I could go on all night you know (as could de cock!)
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Oh god it took me until the third one to work out what you were on about
Should have guessed
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Come on m'boy - keep up!
I guess if he was going to get dropped, it would mean de cock's for the chop!!
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Anybody remember that time de kock got ramdin.........
Old is gold.
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I'm feeling it bro, Warner wishes he averaged mid 20s instead of 50+ ;)
Well Warner only averaged 76.5 after his first 2 tests... But one of those inning was 123* and he only had 52 runs more than what Hales has now. Ive seen hales a few times he definitely deserves this, deserves his fair share of a decent chance. Unfortuantely he hasnt been left in the best positions and scenarios to start in. But he has performed better than Cook has thus far. And cook doesnt even average 30 in SA
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Englands bowlers im sure will be glad to see de cock in early
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Keep us entertained lads league agm tonight and thats 3 hours of my life i wont get back
!!
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Haha i hate AGMs its just arguement after arguement when it shouldnt be. All proposals should be made in advance. The AGM is just purely voting. Luckily this is what our chairman is trying to introduce, hes not cut down the length of our AGM to just the hour!
If you ever attend a league AGM i think the longest has been 40 minutes that was with a bar break too
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Anyway. My good buddy hales says he's fine for tomoz.....
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h76/smilley792/86A3DA44-BEFA-4CBD-9B25-02B59CCF71CC_zpsbcbbbhou.png) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/smilley792/media/86A3DA44-BEFA-4CBD-9B25-02B59CCF71CC_zpsbcbbbhou.png.html)
I'm shocked he replied.
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He's a good lad
Had a couple of convos at TB
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Anyway. My good buddy hales says he's fine for tomoz.....
([url]http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h76/smilley792/86A3DA44-BEFA-4CBD-9B25-02B59CCF71CC_zpsbcbbbhou.png[/url]) ([url]http://s61.photobucket.com/user/smilley792/media/86A3DA44-BEFA-4CBD-9B25-02B59CCF71CC_zpsbcbbbhou.png.html[/url])
I'm shocked he replied.
Chris Jones: Friend to the Stars :D
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De Kock is out already! Dane Vilas inserted instead but may not come in time (for start of play).
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South Africa have won the toss and elected to bat - it buys them time for the keeper to arrive!
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hmmm saved ab from keeping for a bit that toss
I thought the quota was 4 players of colour unless im missing 1 as see rabada amla bavuma?
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I'd hate an injury to DeKock, could be very painful....
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hmmm saved ab from keeping for a bit that toss
I thought the quota was 4 players of colour unless im missing 1 as see rabada amla bavuma?
Wonder how much of a factor it played. Classic midweek friendly toss tactics - '(No Swearing Please), half the team's stuck in traffic... we'll have a bat!'
There is no quota, officially at least.
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Quota's are in place for franchise games. Six players of colour of which 3 must be Black African.
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ok maybe I was mis informed as I remember them saying on comms that it was 4 at domestic and just assumed it was the same at international
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Quota's are in place for franchise games. Six players of colour of which 3 must be Black African.
That's right, this isn't a franchise game is it though!
TMS saying De Kock picked up the injury yesterday and didn't tell anyone til this morning, bet he's popular right now!
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hmmm saved ab from keeping for a bit that toss
I thought the quota was 4 players of colour unless im missing 1 as see rabada amla bavuma?
Exceptional circumstances, Duminey would have played instead of Van Zyl if De Kock had played.
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That's right, this isn't a franchise game is it though!
I was just agreeing with your previous point and pointing out that for franchise cricket quota policy in place. Didn't say this was a franchise game at any point.
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That's right, this isn't a franchise game is it though!
TMS saying De Kock picked up the injury yesterday and didn't tell anyone til this morning, bet he's popular right now!
yeah sounds like de cock had the injury, didn't fancy telling AB he might have to keep(!) woke up and it's worse than thought and he can't play.All speculation of course but that's village!
:)
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AB keeping.. Could be the nail in his test career coffin
I see the rabbit is opening again and Elgar getting squared up as soon as it's slightly back on a length. Looks really vulnerable to anything but full bowling.. Mo on already.. wtf
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AB keeping.. Could be the nail in his test career coffin
I see the rabbit is opening again and Elgar getting squared up as soon as it's slightly back on a length. Looks really vulnerable to anything but full bowling.. Mo on already.. wtf
Vilas will keep.
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Vilas will keep.
Oooohh, sky hasn't shown the team sheet yet (since the first ball when I tuned in).. another rabbit, England will be happy. Botham saying Steyn could be finished due to his shoulder
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Botham saying Steyn could be finished due to his shoulder
This article has been floating around for a couple of years but it predicted Steyn might be done by mid 2015.
http://www.sacricketmag.com/steyns-got-300-overs-left-then-out/ (http://www.sacricketmag.com/steyns-got-300-overs-left-then-out/)
In a nutshell, he's bowled too many overs and compared to other fast bowlers he's on a potential retirement threshold due to wear and tear.
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what a awful shot for a 'test' player, let alone a 'test' opener. disgusting cricket
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Stokes with the breakthrough!
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This article has been floating around for a couple of years but it predicted Steyn might be done by mid 2015.
[url]http://www.sacricketmag.com/steyns-got-300-overs-left-then-out/[/url] ([url]http://www.sacricketmag.com/steyns-got-300-overs-left-then-out/[/url])
In a nutshell, he's bowled too many overs and compared to other fast bowlers he's on a potential retirement threshold due to wear and tear.
TBH I'd rather burn bright and be one of the all time greats, than play for 10-12 years and just be one of many.
Steyn's list of achievements is quite extraordinary
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TBH I'd rather burn bright and be one of the all time greats, than play for 10-12 years and just be one of many.
Steyn's list of achievements is quite extraordinary
Certainly one way to go. I wonder if he would of given back all that IPL money for another year or two at test level? Can't blame him for taking the money though!
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Steyn is a declining force for sure, not sure I buy the amount of overs bowled logic though - Anderson for example has bowled far more international (and first class) deliveries than Steyn, Broad notably more too.
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Hell of a last ball before lunch by Finn, best ball of the day so far
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Steyn is a declining force for sure, not sure I buy the amount of overs bowled logic though - Anderson for example has bowled far more international (and first class) deliveries than Steyn, Broad notably more too.
There's a difference between Anderson bowling 135kph to Steyn bowling 150+kph...
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There's a difference between Anderson bowling 135kph to Steyn bowling 150+kph...
massive difference, one is far less stress on the body than 150kph
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How often have you seen Steyn bowl 150+kph in the last few years though?
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Anyway with regards to South Africa and their quota. Perhaps ABDV only agreed to become captain if he could pick the side he wanted regardless of the quota. This pitch seems pretty dry and the exclusion of both Piedt and Duminy seems to leave ABDV without a decent spinning option. That said once de Kock got hurt, there wasn't really much chance of Duminy opening.
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How often have you seen Steyn bowl 150+kph in the last few years though?
Wear and tear accumulated over the years. It doesn't happen over night.
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How often have you seen Steyn bowl 150+kph in the last few years though?
Exactly, Steyn hasn't bowled sustained pace for a long time now. Broad and Anderson were both quick when they were young as well.
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How often have you seen Steyn bowl 150+kph in the last few years though?
He's still well above our medium plod though, can't really compare work loads with England bowlers other than Wood (who is recent anyway)
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Oh yeh he's still much quicker than anything we have, but he's pace has been on the decline for a few years now.
Funny you should mention Wood and his extra pace, isn't he currently injured??
Looks to me that the England set-up aren't too keen on flat out pace anyway, look at how Broad and now Finn have dropped in pace, and how Footitt and Plunkett can't get a sniff
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Oh yeh he's still much quicker than anything we have, but he's pace has been on the decline for a few years now.
Funny you should mention Wood and his extra pace, isn't he currently injured??
Looks to me that the England set-up aren't too keen on flat out pace anyway, look at how Broad and now Finn have dropped in pace, and how Footitt and Plunkett can't get a sniff
Is it the set up or is that county cricket isn't very good at producing real pace bowlers? Various reasons I'm sure.. wickets favouring dilly dobblers, not that many players to choose from (meaning as a %, the amount who can bowl 90+ will be limited) etc etc etc
Plus, do English wickets really suit out and out pace? Obviously if you can bowl 93mph AND nibble it then winner.. but if you can bowl 83-85mph and nibble it then you will take wickets (a la broad, bresnan, Anderson, stokes, woakes et all)
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Woakes was consistently 10kph quicker than Steyn in the first test of this series, before Steyn got injured!
Don't know what Plunkett has done to get dropped, bowled like a hero for England every time he has managed to get in lately. Footit bowled himself out of the team in the warmups apparently, big shame. You don't need big pace to succeed on English wickets is the main cause I think, Australian flat bouncy decks for example make rapid bowlers essential. That said, how many players are there consistently hitting 95mph in international cricket these days? Mitchell Starc... er...
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Is it the set up or is that county cricket isn't very good at producing real pace bowlers? Various reasons I'm sure.. wickets favouring dilly dobblers, not that many players to choose from (meaning as a %, the amount who can bowl 90+ will be limited) etc etc etc
Plus, do English wickets really suit out and out pace? Obviously if you can bowl 93mph AND nibble it then winner.. but if you can bowl 83-85mph and nibble it then you will take wickets (a la broad, bresnan, Anderson, stokes, woakes et all)
I'll give you a very isolated example of what can happen at club level when you prepare decent wickets:-
Played at Marlow for many years and it was a terrific wicket. Pace and bounce, 250 was a given even back in the late 80's early 90s. If you tried to nibble it like a typical seamer you got nothing. Oppo teams would come and go, our second XI went nearly 2 years unbeaten at home. Why? Well we only picked swing bowlers and leg spinners. If you bowled at Marlow at that time you had to swing the ball to get wickets. We used the breeze and humidity with the new ball and the bounce the leggie got when the ball was older. Finger spinners did ok but weren't much of a threat. I remember one particular game when we got a quickie back from the 1st team. He took wickets bowling back of a length with the ball rising on the forward poke. Oppo, brought up on low seamers couldn't handle it.
Obviously this is club level, but you prepare flatter decks that bowlers can't just wobble around 75-80mph without getting smacked and you will make bowlers bend their backs and bowl at 85-90mph. Spinners will get more involved as well.
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England bowling too short too often. Every time they'd got it up there, the balls doing plenty. But most of the time they are bowling short as the stop the flow of runs...
A fully fit Steyn and Philander would've had a field day on this pitch.
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Woakes was consistently 10kph quicker than Steyn in the first test of this series, before Steyn got injured!
Don't know what Plunkett has done to get dropped, bowled like a hero for England every time he has managed to get in lately. Footit bowled himself out of the team in the warmups apparently, big shame. You don't need big pace to succeed on English wickets is the main cause I think, Australian flat bouncy decks for example make rapid bowlers essential. That said, how many players are there consistently hitting 95mph in international cricket these days? Mitchell Starc... er...
completely right, very few genuine pace bowlers around world cricket which really should be questioned. a fair few 85-88 guys (who can clock 90 on a good day but generally not). Steyn was injured first test, no doubt about it. His pace hasn't been 'high' for a year or two as someone said below. Only guys that stikc in my head as being able to bowl spells at 89+ were Flintoff, Lee, Akhtar, Steyn, Johnson. The rest flirt the odd ball. Even so, these guys peaked and troffed with their pace
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Elgar's technique vs short bowling is interesting. He's leaning backwards every time he tries to pull/hook, that's only going one way.. in the air. I expect better from a top order player tbh, should at least be competent at 130kph to keep it down. (I'm assuming he can't based on playing it 4 times now and every time there are men out)
oh review on Amla
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So the middle stump will have cartwheeled off towards the stumper and it's not out??
Shocking decision.
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So the middle stump will have cartwheeled off towards the stumper and it's not out??
Shocking decision.
just clipping wasn't it?? doubt so not out. Did look high, above the knee roll etc. I'd have expected an umpire to give it not out as there was doubt there.
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Stokes is raging, pushing 90mph now.
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Stokes is raging, pushing 90mph now.
starting to leak runs because of that though, needs taking out the attack as he's becoming erratic
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starting to leak runs because of that though, needs taking out the attack as he's becoming erratic
Do you have sky?
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I'm at work so unfortunately having to rely on text updates telling me that his pace is increasing, could do with breaking this partnership soon!
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Do you have sky?
yeah, watching in on the ipad via skygo live
Stokes operating around 135kph so not quite 90mph! He his going red like a beatroot though.. angry boy
From what I've seen of Elgar.. Pepper him with short balls and then throw them up swinging away outside his off stump as his feet won't move and he looks worse than Jos/Hales. His pull/hooks will go in the air (as they have today) so swap it around and bowl full outside off and surprise ball being short etc etc. Bowling poorly at Elgar given his obvious weakness
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Stokes operating around 135kph so not quite 90mph! He his going red like a beatroot though.. angry boy
Like I said I was having to trust the BBC text coverage "He's pushing 90mph now, the Durham man. Wound up and bowling gas."
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ok Broad, I said he can't pull but bowling a half tracker at 130kph is a bit too easy even for Elgar.. crunching pull for 4. dispatched.. go pick that up Broady lad
yeah he's not pushing 90 unfortunately.. some Eng fan getting over excited again as Stokes is the hero currently
that's better, 135kph at Elgar and he fluffs it again..so poor for a opener
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since lunch at Elgar
40% short
40% length
20% full
Not good enough on this wicket, there is nibble in the wicket if you bowl full.
at amla
short - 42%
length - 47%
full - 11%
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Turn for moeen.
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oh good god.. Elgar is awful
Moeen takes his wicket with a bog standard ball that barely did anything.. Bonus wicket again for England, now the key partnership for SA.. Get one of these in the next 5 overs and England should roll SA.
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AB assaulting Mo already. quick feet and four down the ground.
make that back to back 4's. AB counter attacking mr avg (only just cleared cook at midwicket though! so risky)
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Mo has gone ultra defensive. bowling around the wicket, aiming at middle-leg with 5 leg side fielders. Interesting passage of play, asking questions of AB's patience
Amla gone to a good ball from Finn.. full length, moved away and took the edge. Amla opened up a bit too much. Exactly where Eng should be bowling. good ball
SA could fall away now
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Big wicket!!
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surprised no one given the analysis of Bailey has picked up on Amla's technique. He's also closed off (not as much though). Just cost him his wicket though as his hips etc squared him up
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Finn is love Finn is life
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He is bowling like a god, lets hope he can sustain this attack.
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England gotta make a decision about who's the leader of their attach soon. Steven Finn is bowling like a legend and at 26 is the future. Anderson looks to be on the slide. Broad is a bit hot and cold.
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AB gone, SA really are starting to fold
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England smelling blood now surely must fancy getting SA for 250-300 now.
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one day shot by AB, didn't need to go after it. Needed to bat properly not one day mode. shame for SA. Could be ao for <250
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England smelling blood now surely must fancy getting SA for 250-300 now.
300-350 is considered a good score in Johannesburg
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England smelling blood now surely must fancy getting SA for 250-300 now.
Other than Finn , who's been outstanding, the bowling looks pretty flat, and potentially still a decent amount of batting to come.
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Other than Finn , who's been outstanding, the bowling looks pretty flat, and potentially still a decent amount of batting to come.
No one.
Anderson is a bit 'meh' and bowling to short, Broad the same. Stokes has got lucky tbh with his wickets as he's looked meh. Mo, had to go into hiding after his AB assault and didn't threaten at all and only 'contained' due to around the wicket and loads of leg side fielders (perfectly valid to test the patience)
Not much to come from SA really, suppose they might have a good day but the wicket is offering enough that England if they bowl full should get them out easily enough IMO
EEYORE
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Faf gone to another absolute god awful one day shot. Brainless.. Clueless cricket
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Swear Hales has nearly dropped that! don't know where we can hide him. Good cheap wicket again tho.
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Sounds like from Finn's earlier spell he deserved another though. Good to see him back in the side and at his best.
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Swear Hales has nearly dropped that! don't know where we can hide him. Good cheap wicket again tho.
Give him a break he was crapping himself
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Yeah, skittle them for 250 odd, job done.
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Stokes operating around 135kph so not quite 90mph! He his going red like a beatroot though.. angry boy
Not quite correct.
61.4 Stokes to Bavuma, no run, through to the keeper, 143kph/89mph
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Not quite correct.
61.4 Stokes to Bavuma, no run, through to the keeper, 143kph/89mph
Look at the time I posted that response. titch wasn't in bat. It's literally hours later.. so 'not quite correct' is.. 'actually you were correct'
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Look at the time I posted that response. titch wasn't in bat. It's literally hours later.. so 'not quite correct' is.. 'actually you were correct'
Actually you weren't, but don't let that stand in the way of you having another huff ;)
33.5
Stokes to Amla, 2 runs, full, swinging late into Amla at 143kph, he jabs down on it and squeezes under mid-off
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Bairstow, sensational!
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Bairstow, sensational!
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absolutely superb keeping
Gift again from SA.. Must be in a generous mood these saffas.. Brainless really
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absolutely superb keeping
Gift again from SA.. Must be in a generous mood these saffas.. Brainless really
Glad to see his glove work is coming along, had a pint with him and maxwell last summer at my club and hes an absolutely spot on lad. Deserves everything he gets!
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Glad to see his glove work is coming along, had a pint with him and maxwell last summer at my club and hes an absolutely spot on lad. Deserves everything he gets!
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Good to see him playing well, I always think he comes across as a good bloke in interviews and he's very well thought of by commentators and ex players.
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Is it me or is the over rate really low, they're only on 73 now!
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Is it me or is the over rate really low, they're only on 73 now!
it's always slow, don't even bother expecting 90 in a day now. Just get what you get
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Is it me or is the over rate really low, they're only on 73 now!
Probably all the (No Swearing Please) breaks they have been having.
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another god awful shot by SA.. One day cricket has a lot to answer for in test cricket. terrible
Villas gone
Short ball, non threatening, men out.. I know, I'll try and hit it in the air.. Brain dead.. just leave it.. 5 f'ing days for gods sake
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could we nip them out tonight for less than 250?
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could we nip them out tonight for less than 250?
You'd expect a test attack to mop up the tail in 75 mins
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could we nip them out tonight for less than 250?
Morris is the only one left who can really bat so I don't see why not.
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review............. not out
New ball taken - 1st ball (Anderson).. morris dropped by stokes at slip.. nails catch though
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surely finn with the new ball?
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The International comeback of the Watford Express after all the problems in Australia is heartwarming for an old fella like myself.
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surely finn with the new ball?
Finn on too
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surely finn with the new ball?
I think Broad will pull rank.
I stand corrected.
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Fair play Jimmy but Finn for me is the strike bowler so had to get it and I would give it him all the while
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I agree, I just expected Broad to stomp his feet and take it anyways haha
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Anderson has been the weakest of the bowlers today (I don't count Moeen as a bowler). Finn's also bowling No balls so hope he doesn't take a wicket and get picked up .. just got a leading edge off morris which landed next to the stumps.. close
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stumps
267-7
Great nut to finish the day with
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@dcullen8 Grimsby Town?
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@dcullen8 Grimsby Town?
Very much so
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Cool. I'm know quite a few of the guys who played in that game
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Youre lincoln based right?
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No, Preston, Lancashire, but I grew up in GY. Came through the ranks at Meggies
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Ahh i have you confused, there was one "johnny" that sprung to mind who is friends with many of the players.
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Your probably thinking of Bozza, aka Jonny Davies.
I went to college with the Webb twins. Think it was youngest Webb that sorted the big names from the GTKO game - he plays golf with YJB
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Your probably thinking of Bozza, aka Jonny Davies.
I went to college with the Webb twins. Think it was youngest Webb that sorted the big names from the GTKO game - he plays golf with YJB
Yeah the story goes theyre good friends, golf, drinking (of which maxwell did plenty) etc. Although notts only released the pair as they believed it was a charity game!
And Johnny Miller was who i guessed at.
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Seeing as how below par both Broad and Anderson were yesterday - why would you not open with Finn?
where's the creative thinking in the England set-up?
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Anderson has been very disappointing in Cape Town(where he looked unfit) and here in Johannesburg(still doesn't particularly look fit). Broad having the craps has reduced his performance as well.
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Seeing as how below par both Broad and Anderson were yesterday - why would you not open with Finn?
where's the creative thinking in the England set-up?
we tend to be a bit conservative,Cook is almost certainly thinking about how many runs we will need to get 1st innings.......we do of course need to get them out to keep the runs down big Cat...... :)
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Broad's got Morris!
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And Anderson gets Rabada, 6 for YJB as well, he's having a good tour so far!
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well we will get to see if England can build on this good start
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Viljoen nails his first ball in Test cricket for 4
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Hales in the field moves like he's 46 not 26. Needs to do some yoga.
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300 up for South Africa. Decent total on this pitch.
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Hmmm, 2 wickets down this morning, but going at over 4 an over - change it up Cookie!!!
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Bairstow shells Morkel. Catch would've broken the record
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Anderson kicked out the bowling attack for running on thug pitch
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313 all out
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tut tut Anderson. TBF, he had been warned and does it regularly so it's about time umpires applied the laws of the game properly. SA tail putting up some resistance, ball nipping about a bit which is good for SA. Can't decide if it's luck, good batting or poor bowling.
Stokes takes the last wicket by a almightly cow shot by Morkal
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Bairstow's drop fortunately doesn't cost!
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50th test scalp for Stokes too.
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if you need a wicket it's Stokes!! now...some serious batting needed, this is where the series is in the balance
Vijoen is gonna be unleashed on us, size wise he looks like Pete Hosk on steroids, sort of like he could carry two bales of hay in each hand and pull a tractor with his teeth.
game on
:)
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well this is apparently the lowest test score ever with all xi getting to double but SA did hold the record before of 358 set in 1932
nearly beat our record of 315 as highest test total without anyone scoring a 50
#loveastat
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Quality from Aleem Dar.
Showing Cook how to captain a team - Anderson is bowling pies, if you won't take him off, I will!!!! hahahahahaha
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Bairstow's drop fortunately doesn't cost!
Not a nails chance but a hard one tbf, he's not got very good footwork for a county keeper let alone a Test one. Still, he's so far ahead of Buttler in the batting he could probably drop two a game and still be net up on Buttler.
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I rest my case!!! Let your two premium bowlers trundle in and get tw*tted, the final wicket only falls due to a bowling change that you don't make!!!!
Some poor bowling from England over this innings, 250 might have been a fairer total - time for us to bat well.
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Not a nails chance but a hard one tbf, he's not got very good footwork for a county keeper let alone a Test one. Still, he's so far ahead of Buttler in the batting he could probably drop two a game and still be net up on Buttler.
I think his keeping has been improving though to be fair to him, 300odd runs across the first 2 games of the series hasn't done him any harm though you're right!
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watching the highlights last night Bairstow kept really well. He's taking his chance and that puts Butler into the background.It will be interesting to see how it pans out.Butler may have to make do with the one day game for the near future.
I can't see how England can fit both Jonny and Jos in the same team currently.We need 5 bowlers.
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I rest my case!!! Let your two premium bowlers trundle in and get tw*tted, the final wicket only falls due to a bowling change that you don't make!!!!
Some poor bowling from England over this innings, 250 might have been a fairer total - time for us to bat well.
The ball beat the bat a lot for most of yesterday and this morning so there is plenty in the wicket IF you bowl the right areas (which is where most of the wickets came... FULL).. As you say, England did bowl too short most of the innings. For Englands sake you hope SA do the same or it could be carnage with 'plant foot' hales, Cook (who isn't moving his front foot again) opening.
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I think his keeping has been improving though to be fair to him, 300odd runs across the first 2 games of the series hasn't done him any harm though you're right!
He is improving and will improve like Prior did. He's streets ahead of Buttler for longer format, Jos needs to accept he's a white ball player and go on the IPL type merry-go-round
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He is improving and will improve like Prior did.
My thinking exactly, he looks a good batsman to have coming in at 7 too.
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watching the highlights last night Bairstow kept really well. He's taking his chance and that puts Butler into the background.It will be interesting to see how it pans out.Butler may have to make do with the one day game for the near future.
I can't see how England can fit both Jonny and Jos in the same team currently.We need 5 bowlers.
the situations I could foresee is them getting tired with one of Compton Taylor if they're not averaging mid-40s+ and them then bumping bairstow up to 5 with Butler coming in to keep - or getting tired of Hales, moving Compton to open, Taylor to three, Bairstow to 5 and Butler to keep
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the situations I could foresee is them getting tired with one of Compton Taylor if they're not averaging mid-40s+ and them then bumping bairstow up to 5 with Butler coming in to keep - or getting tired of Hales, moving Compton to open, Taylor to three, Bairstow to 5 and Butler to keep
You've named several ways to weaken the team
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Hales back to limited overs cricket, Test cricket isn't for you.
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Hales nicks off yet again.. no feet.. awful
half volley on 4th stump, move your head/feet ffs. Back to white ball for you, truly awful from a 'test' opening batsmen
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Bairstow shouldn't bat as high as 5. The team now, is how I feel it should stay for the next couple of years. The only changes I would be thinking about depending on performances, are Hales spot opening, and Ali playing as the spinner.
Butler doesn't have the mental capacity for Test cricket, doesn't seem to have the passion either. Bairstow I imagine is someone that works very very hard at his game, keeping is improving, had a good day yesterday.
and right on cue, Hales is gone. Who glued his feet to the floor?
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Pitch is like a trampoline on day 2. Incredible bounce on offer
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Looks like there going to take a wicket every ball, nervy to watch
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You've named several ways to weaken the team
not saying i agree with the above, but I could see the selectors doing it!
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Cook showing the saffas how to pull properly, lovely shot
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Hales nicks off yet again.. no feet.. awful
half volley on 4th stump, move your head/feet ffs. Back to white ball for you, truly awful from a 'test' opening batsmen
it's technique at the top of the order,most of us said the same thing before the series.I hope he gets runs going forward I really do once he has an England shirt on, but he's short on technique and thinking he will slap quality bowling around is the most ridiculous thing ive heard in years.
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it's technique at the top of the order,most of us said the same thing before the series.I hope he gets runs going forward I really do once he has an England shirt on, but he's short on technique and thinking he will slap quality bowling around is the most ridiculous thing ive heard in years.
YOu say most said it, I seem to remember a lot of people thinking he was going to be awesome.. He doesn't have the technique or mental strength, again.. go play white ball cricket and be a hero to the IPL
I don't want him to get runs, not because I don't want England to win but it'll mask the issue. You want the players who aren't upto it ot fail so that you can find someone who is. If the mediocre guys can avg 30's and into low 40's then how do you tell the good from the average etc.. Nah, sad as it is.. England either need him to suddenly step up or fail for the rest of the series and get dumped.
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great nut by Rabada to Compton. A tad short still from SA bowling wise, just like England
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it's technique at the top of the order,most of us said the same thing before the series.I hope he gets runs going forward I really do once he has an England shirt on, but he's short on technique and thinking he will slap quality bowling around is the most ridiculous thing ive heard in years.
I think the hope is that he can do as Warner does: Slap quality bowling around.
Whether he can or not remains to be seen but I think he's earned a fair chance at it so I guess time will tell.
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Viljoen is built like a wrestler...
And he's get Cook first ball!!!
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@pistol101 - did you play against alex hales?
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First ball in test cricket?
As I always say, S**t balls get wickets
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I think the hope is that he can do as Warner does: Slap quality bowling around.
Whether he can or not remains to be seen but I think he's earned a fair chance at it so I guess time will tell.
Warner (and I hate saying this) is a freak. He's that once in a generation type player who is good enough to bat properly AND good enough to launch vicious assaults on bowling (mainly when it's not moving though, people forget he plays most of his cricket on Aus and flat wickets where you can just throw the bat!!). Expecting each nation to find 'a warner' is nonsensical. If you find someone good enough fair enough but don't pigeon hole players into a role just because someone else was/is good at it.
Ah crap.. Cook gone.. to a filthy ball too..
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Root in wearing the pink NB gloves
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@pistol101 - did you play against alex hales?
We knocked his leg stump out the ground first ball - Tom Hampton no balled. Hales got 150!
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This lad is sharp. Clocked at 149kph
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talking Comptons technique.. He's been hit in the midriff several times now to length balls that nip back at him. He's getting caught closed off. This being closed off stance seems to be a regular occurrence currently but does limit your ability to play shots. Weird so many are doing it
COMPTON DO NOT START FLASHING AT WIDE FULL BALLS.. BAT PROPERLY YOU IDIOT
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Root not enjoying this pace and bounce from Viljoen
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Said it before, Viljoen should have been playing ahead of morris and Abbott. Gave a lot of batsman in the ram slam a hurry up including a one KP
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Said it before, Viljoen should have been playing ahead of morris and Abbott. Gave a lot of batsman in the ram slam a hurry up including a one KP
A lot different bowling 4 overs quickly than playing a Test match. Will Viljoen be able to back this pace up in the third/fourth spells?
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Root not enjoying this pace and bounce from Viljoen
Playing a lot off the back foot away from his body too, don't want to be doing that on a pitch moving about.. ok on flat decks but not decent wickets like this seems to be.
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Do we reckon Viljoen might be the only person to hit his first test ball for 4 and take a wicket with his first test delivery?
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I think TMS said fourth to do it.
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I think TMS said fourth to do it.
BBC Text updates are suggesting the 2nd after a NZ player in the 30's but they're not exactly known for their accuracy (the BBC text, not 1930's Kiwi cricketers).
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Compdog dropped.. sitter by AB.
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Really don't like watching Compton bat
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Really don't like watching Compton bat
why? Because he's not a slogger?
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There is that yes, I grew up watching boycs bore the life out of test cricket
He looks a little unsure on picking length or maybe unsure of the wicket?
Almost like he's a little too wary?nervous
And then he suddenly switches on?
Hope he bats all day and proves me wrong
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There is that yes, I grew up watching boycs bore the life out of test cricket
He looks a little unsure on picking length or maybe unsure of the wicket?
Almost like he's a little too wary?nervous
And then he suddenly switches on?
Hope he bats all day
I think your nervous comment is correct. Not because he's worried about SA, but because he knows he's under pressure for his place and so goes into his shell. We all know if you go defensive you can make more mistakes, I think that's borne out then with the odd slog that appears. Good pull shot by him just then.
It's not boring though, it's an interesting passage of play. The more shots a batsmen plays the easier a bowlers job is to get them out (unless it's a flat deck like in Aus), so by only playing a 'shot' when it's a bad ball. .you are forcing the bowlers to bowl into your areas etc. They can't just plod away outside off, just as much as you can't jus tleave everything. YOu have to take 20 wickets to win a game. Unlike white ball cricket where bowling is even less challenging because you know the batsmen will be throwin gthe bat so you just bowl negative and wait for it. If you had to take wickets to win the game (ie, if you don't take 10 then you draw), you'd find bowlers would have to attack the stumps more, which in turn.. might produce more shots.
It's great fun when you leave well, defend.. and force a bowler into doing what you want. Just as enjoyable as watching someone like stokes, warner slog/biff on a flat track 4 after 4 after 4.
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I think for me it's those slightly wild throw of the bat at the short wide ones?
A little bit of frustration there, a decent batter,(at this level) should put them away
Take the pressure off
Gone!!!!!
He just followed it?
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I think for me it's those slightly wild throw of the bat at the short wide ones?
A little bit of frustration there, a decent batter,(at this level) should put them away
Take the pressure off
Gone!!!!!
He just followed it?
"a decent batter,(at this level) should put them away" --- That's the problem.. If you go through world cricket though, there aren't many top order of high calibre. Cook is up there when in form (seems to have stopped moving his feet), Sangakkara has gone, Warner is a freak. Amla is probably up there in the world currently. Not much around of that quality. There are a lot of make weights and average players around currently.
Poor from Compton as you say.. Shouldn't be following it as a top order batsmen.
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Is that wicket dodgy or something?
Taylor looks wary too
It does pop a bit off a length
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Is that wicket dodgy or something?
Taylor looks wary too
It does pop a bit off a length
nah, it's nibbling about and he's 3ft and the bowler is tall.. it's just getting big on him. Hard wicket to start on if the bowler gets it right. Has been all game, hence lots of 30/40 scores. Never 'in' unless the bowlers bowl a load of crap at you
I'll probably regret this but for me, this is the best test match wicket I've seen in a long time. The only one close was the day/night test wicket that did a bit but not 'too much'. If you bat properly you will score runs.. If you take liberties or don't have the technique then you'll probably come a cropper
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Hmm
Taylor just not coming forward
Makes you wonder what cook and hales have gone back to the changing rooms and said about the wicket
There's a bit of doubt there
Yeah, a lot in it if you bowl the right length
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Hmm
Taylor just not coming forward
Makes you wonder what cook and hales have gone back to the changing rooms and said about the wicket
There's a bit of doubt there
Yeah, a lot in it if you bowl the right length
This is a test of Taylor now.. has to bat long and bat well. Same with root.. a flashy 40 won't cut it
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Makes you wonder what cook and hales have gone back to the changing rooms and said about the wicket
I really hope that at Test level you don't get batsmen coming back into the changing rooms telling everyone it's a minefield out there, bad enough in village cricket doing that!
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The higher level a sportsman, the more , better excuses they have for poor performance
These lads are batting on the best prepared wickets in the world
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Liking this rabadas bowling a lot
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"Tops gone"
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300 looking good on this wicket
cue a collapse or a stokes/bairstow/ali blitz
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it's a situation for Root to really demonstrate his class here - however he scores it always looks good and it's been touched on that he's been scoring a lot of pretty 50-80s lately but if he can pull England out of a tough spot and put them in a competitive position I think it would do him a lot of good for the year ahead
he may have the perfect foil with stokes at the other end as end, fingers crossed eh
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Stokes basically just slogging. Looks good when it comes off, look stupid if it gets you out
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Stokes basically just slogging. Looks good when it comes off, look stupid if it gets you out
I'd rather stokes play like this as it can save us on more occasions than it will fail us
We need to be less conservative and if we pick these players understand that is how they play in this situation so if we don't like it don't pick them
No different to how warner plays in this kind of situation or gilchrist used to, although gilly was more consistent than most being an all time great
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Stokes basically just slogging. Looks good when it comes off, look stupid if it gets you out
He's not though is he
He just plays at a lot of balls that others would leave, plays attacking and obviously full of confidence. Puts the bad ball away or at least tries to
So if that's slogging, we're all doomed
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I'd rather stokes play like this as it can save us on more occasions than it will fail us
We need to be less conservative and if we pick these players understand that is how they play in this situation so if we don't like it don't pick them
No different to how warner plays in this kind of situation or gilchrist used to, although gilly was more consistent than most being an all time great
Gilchrist didn't slog, he had a proper technique. Warner's technique is also pretty good.
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Another 50 up for Root, no doubting he's a run machine but surely he's due to kick on to a big score?
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Gilchrist didn't slog, he had a proper technique. Warner's technique is also pretty good.
Hold on first stokes technique is pretty good when not over hitting
gilly did slog like crap at times and he admits it on comms that he just chanced his arm sometimes the difference is he was pretty consistent with it
Warner has got better and become one of the best test openers at the but still has almighty dirty slogs sometimes
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Some serious grainage on that bat of Stokes
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SA looking very ordinary up to tea. Ball is still moving around but they can't stick enough in the same spot. Root and Stokes have their eyes in and the run rate is racing along. At this rate England could be racing off into the distance if these 2 bat another 20-30 overs together. Tea has come at a good time for SA I think and they are still 150 a head.
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SA lost the plot, started bowling erratically and too short. Bowlers getting giddy and it's letting root and stokes hit hem.
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Hold on first stokes technique is pretty good when not over hitting
gilly did slog like crap at times and he admits it on comms that he just chanced his arm sometimes the difference is he was pretty consistent with it
Warner has got better and become one of the best test openers at the but still has almighty dirty slogs sometimes
I've noticed with Gilchrist that he's very modest when talking about his game, what he describes as chancing his arm was probably a lot more calculated than he's letting on.
If you're chancing your arm then really your playing a risky a game and there's a saying along the lines of "if someone keeps defying the odds over and over again then maybe the odds aren't what you think they are".
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There's a myth that if you're a good limited overs player that you suddenly become a 'slogger'. The likes of Viv Richards, Ponting, Tendulkar and de Villiers where/are exceptional limited overs players. Are they sloggers? No.
Warner averages 50
Gilchrist nearly 50
Gotta be some sloggers to get numbers like that...
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Root using a Masuri with Stem Guard now and not his usual Shrey
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He changes helmets more than your average CBF member does Root.
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Never said they slogged all the time 90% was just great batting but gilly did slog sometimes just maybe 5-10%
I cat really put any of them in viv's caliber though as he is there with Brahman and sobers as greatest ever batsmen
Stokes over attacks sometimes but sloggers cannot play that many good shots
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Watch NB sales skyrocket again
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Never said they slogged all the time 90% was just great batting but gilly did slog sometimes just maybe 5-10%
I cat really put any of them in viv's caliber though as he is there with Brahman and sobers as greatest ever batsmen
Stokes over attacks sometimes but sloggers cannot play that many good shots
Afridi averaged 36.5 with 5 hundreds and there isn't a bigger slogger than him
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Slogger Stokes brings up his 6th test 50 at just over a run a ball.
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Afridi averaged 36.5 with 5 hundreds and there isn't a bigger slogger than him
Someone with his calibre of bowling can get away with slogging
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From the bits that I can catch this sounds like excellent cricket from England. Was really worried at 2 down that this would be one of those England innings where every batsman digs themselves in to a hole then gives their wicket away but it sounds excellent counter attacking stuff from these two.
Got to give praise to the ground staff for this wicket too, no matter the reasons behind it but when the bowler has a slight edge you always get more interesting cricket.
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Slogger out. One slog too many
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Ah, balls.
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Someone with his calibre of bowling can get away with slogging
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You seen his Test bowling record?
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Slogger out. One slog too many
Come on man, if that had been a Saffer you'd have described the innings as swashbuckling.
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I now realise I fell for a troll or just a moron
Attempted glance to leg = slog hmmmmmmm
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Come on man, if that had been a Saffer you'd have described the innings as swashbuckling.
Maybe if it was Maxwell :D
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I now realise I fell for a troll or just a moron
Attempted glance to leg = slog hmmmmmmm
Gotcha ;)
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Maybe if it was Maxwell :D
Speaking of sloggers :D
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Come on man, if that had been a Saffer you'd have described the innings as swashbuckling.
He would have, but seeing as his "watched" has gone from his name, he's turning back into the troll he is to try and make people bite.
It's a shame the admin haven't got the balls to jettison him permanently(he'd just sign back up again though)
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Speaking of sloggers :D
The way he bats and he takes home over $2m per year :o
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It's ok by me as if someone has so little going on they get their kicks from trolling on a forum I feel for them
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The way he bats and he takes home over $2m per year :o
Good work if you can get it :D
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Roooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot fast becoming the most popular northerner with us southern softies.
Come on son, get the next 5.
This is Test crickeeeeeeet today, T20 hit and giggle can do one
:)
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WE ARE NOT WORTHY
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Roooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot fast becoming the most popular northerner with us southern softies.
I've got feelings you know! :D
Another masterclass by Root!
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interesting, found this on getty images, goes with the pink gloves
(http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/joe-root-of-england-bats-in-the-nets-during-england-media-access-at-picture-id504652738)
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that's some hundred from our favourite flat cap
keep going Joe we need more....
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interesting, found this on getty images, goes with the pink gloves
([url]http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/joe-root-of-england-bats-in-the-nets-during-england-media-access-at-picture-id504652738[/url])
Looks like he's getting to either choose the colours for next year or getting his own range. I think it was quite late into the product cycle when he joined so was just given what they had, personally I find that colour scheme horrendous! The colours NB are slowly become worse and worse
BRING BACK BLUE AND YELLOW!!
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Stokes has one
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h76/smilley792/C101BE60-804D-4FFB-A9E0-0C87F60C3139_zpss1jmddsd.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/smilley792/media/C101BE60-804D-4FFB-A9E0-0C87F60C3139_zpss1jmddsd.jpg.html)
I believe smith did for the pink test too. But can't be bothered to search for pics
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Looks like he's getting to either choose the colours for next year or getting his own range. I think it was quite late into the product cycle when he joined so was just given what they had, personally I find that colour scheme horrendous! The colours NB are slowly become worse and worse
BRING BACK BLUE AND YELLOW!!
i'd be a fan of blue and white either way round or red and blue
not a massive fan of the black and pink i must say
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Personally think the black and pink looks great
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Great knock by Root but you've got to love Stokes, he wrestles momentum back, which in away is worth more than his runs.
I imagine the Bayliss/Stokes conversation goes like this:
Bayliss - Stokesy the boys uptop are taking a pounding, head up to the front line and see whats going on.
Stokes returns after slaying the enemy....
Stokes: Nothing to see up there Mr Bayliss, we'll have this lot boshed by the new ball.
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Also a Remfry pad disguised as NB, cheeky Ben :)
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tracked it on BBC, but not seen any of today, is this Root's best test innings by the sounds of it?
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Slogger out. One slog too many
Don't hear you calling Warner a slogger.. He's not shy of just throwing his bat through the ball regardless (which is slogging)
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tracked it on BBC, but not seen any of today, is this Root's best test innings by the sounds of it?
Up there. Very decent test match this
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i'd be a fan of blue and white either way round or red and blue
not a massive fan of the black and pink i must say
Surprised they don't do a proteas/aussie version of green and gold/yellow stickers
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Pink NB stuff could be for the ODI where South Africa wear pink for a cancer charity?
That is if Root and Stokes are both selected for the ODIs?!
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Pretty rubbish review from root there. Despite having a good year he does seem to struggle the morning after being not out the previous evening
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It's pretty incredible that after 60 odd Tests no one has ever taught Morne Morkel that it is allowed to pitch the ball up occasionally. With the attributes he has he could've been a legend if he bowled fuller.
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Storm damage :o
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Get ready for a broken effin bat
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At least his replacement seems to go better...
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160116/9ad424281c87bab4c0de42a020a5f6a1.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160116/a92bc0002af7950ff0adf329a7534f3a.jpg)
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Hardus has become hard as 😂😂😂
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Fair catch that one
Looks a very good keeper this lad
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Fair catch that one
Looks a very good keeper this lad
Poor chap was made the scapegoat from the Indian tour...looks a much better keeper than de Kock
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Didn't see the India tour but he looks better than de cock I agree
I think broad needs to go on strictly
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Dale Vilas is 30 though not exactly what a team needs when they are struggling, need a young keeper that grows with the team instead of retiring in 2 years
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Dale Vilas is 30 though not exactly what a team needs when they are struggling, need a young keeper that grows with the team instead of retiring in 2 years
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Why would Vilas retire at 32?
Haddin played until he was 36
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Why do people think you always need youth
Your best players are your best players
You can blood youngsters but if they are not in your best xi you take a risk
Blood them in one dayers or the a team
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It was just an example, nothing more. The point was its better to not have to worry about a replacement for 10+ years than to have a replacement after 1 or 2. Having said that.. You then get the Warne effect as you try to replace him like for like in Steve Smith, worked well didnt it? And for Graeme Swann with Ali... Its just not as good, though both replacments have their right to be in the team :)
Yes im trying to be politically correct now
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(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160116/d1d725d52ea9a1ae4d6204c37e529965.jpg)
Another one of Ali bat
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This kid Rabada is gonna be some bowler. If he can get a couple of years with Steyn and Philander, he could become the spearhead
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The burnley Lara won't be happy with the Watford wall coming in before him
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morkel gets Finn will some monstrous bounce.
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WE HAVE A LEAD
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5/78 for Rabada. First of many I would predict for the youngster
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YES STUART!
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YOU BEAUTY
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Big duck for ab!!! Get in there Stuart.
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If I wasn't so full of cold I'd be running round my living room arms outstretched right now, COME ON ENGLAND!!!!
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Everyone may think he's a helmet, but Stuart Broad is a great bowler!
England's 3rd highest test wicket, can turn games with magic spells (no pun intended) and able to biff a few down the order.
I'm sure any team would love a Stuart Broad, but I have a feeling the cricket world just think of him as a tit, so won't appreciate just how good he is until he's no longer playing.
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Everyone may think he's a helmet [...] I have a feeling the cricket world just think of him as a tit,
Am I the only one that likes him all the time?
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Am I the only one that likes him all the time?
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No I think he's class. Don't see what the problem is with him. Apart from he's a bit petulant at times but so were most of the great Aussie team of the 90's
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And he takes Amla!!!!!!
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Gotta hand it to Broad, when he comes up with a spell he really comes up with a spell!
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What a catch, was about to go outside but my bum is glued to the seat. Top stuff this!!
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What. A. Catch.
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Just showed on Sky Taylor had something like 0.4 seconds to react to that, WHAT A CATCH lad
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For anyone who missed it
(http://94.23.103.63/GIFs/235106177203160242150022084062038067019248143137/LQ/117221082004216004024029004112149213048079209217.gif)
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Screamer!!!
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What on earth was Bavuma doing, Broaddyyyy!
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Thanks Broady. Take a spell.
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I feel like I'm drunk watching this
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What a spell!!! 5 for 1 in 5 overs!!
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Just keep him on! He'll take all ten at this rate!
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I have never seen a bowler go on runs like broad
He can look like a poor clubie at times then goes on these rolls and is unstoppable
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Apparently it's the 7th time he's taken a 5fer in a single spell.
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Finn in on the action!
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JAMES TAYLOR ARE YOU KIDDING ME
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Drugs test for broad and taylor!
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That is ridiculous, I mean the first one was good but that was in a different league, incredible.
Also, not a bad inducker that.
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STOKESY
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Would love to see Gerry SA 's face right now!!
7 down.
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Can't keep Stokes out of the game this series!
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Gotta ask what took England so long in this innings!
23-0 SA were
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Have to love the aggressive nature of this England team
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Wouldnt want to be cook and hales, with hardly a run between them, walking out onto this wicket later!
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Hales should just try and wallop it, finish it in 3 overs haha
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Just went out for an hour came back to this! Talk about grabbing the game!!
Titch low centre of gravity has got to help with those stunners!
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Just astonishing from broad (again). Who is England's number and be bowler now?
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Rabada looking the most solid out of all the batsman!
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England have had that lucky knack in recent times of playing the declining sides at the correct times.
Ashes 2010-11. Walloped a weak Australia 3-1
India 2010. Whitewashed the number 1, but declining, side 4-0
India 2012. Outclassed an ageing India in their own conditions 2-1
Now South Africa, coming off a mauling in India. England feasting like vultures on the remaining corpse of the soon to be former world number 1 side.
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He's annoying that's for sure, when ever he gets away with a flukey shot it goes for runs. England don't want to be chasing anything over 120
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Stokes does for Rabada!
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England have had that lucky knack in recent times of playing the declining sides at the correct times.
Ashes 2010-11. Walloped a weak Australia 3-1
India 2010. Whitewashed the number 1, but declining, side 4-0
India 2012. Outclassed an ageing India in their own conditions 2-1
Now South Africa, coming off a mauling in India. England feasting like vultures on the remaining corpse of the soon to be former world number 1 side.
Better to be born lucky than rich goes the old saying...:-)
We have been brilliant today hav'nt we?
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England have had that lucky knack in recent times of playing the declining sides at the correct times.
Ashes 2010-11. Walloped a weak Australia 3-1
India 2010. Whitewashed the number 1, but declining, side 4-0
India 2012. Outclassed an ageing India in their own conditions 2-1
Now South Africa, coming off a mauling in India. England feasting like vultures on the remaining corpse of the soon to be former world number 1 side.
You could say the same for aus from 1995 onwards.. Wi on decline and everyone else crap until SA become decent and best everyone.. Swings and round a bouts, no nation has managed to produce successive quality teams so most of the time yiu can only put it down to sheer luck.
Anyway, hats off to Taylor and bowlers (bar Anderson) bowling well. SA thrown the series away though. SA need to bowl really well, 3-4 quick wickets (hales is a walking wicket) will set the nerves on edge in the end dressingroom
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Luck is always a man's best friend
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England have had that lucky knack in recent times of playing the declining sides at the correct times.
Ashes 2010-11. Walloped a weak Australia 3-1
India 2010. Whitewashed the number 1, but declining, side 4-0
India 2012. Outclassed an ageing India in their own conditions 2-1
Now South Africa, coming off a mauling in India. England feasting like vultures on the remaining corpse of the soon to be former world number 1 side.
My favourite bit was where we beat the Aussies.
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You could say the same for aus from 1995 onwards.. Wi on decline and everyone else crap until SA become decent and best everyone.. Swings and round a bouts, no nation has managed to produce successive quality teams so most of the time yiu can only put it down to sheer luck.
Australia had the best players in the world. Pretty much in every position. Just as the West Indies had prior to that.
England have done well to polish off these sides, but they aren't the best side in the world.
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England have had that lucky knack in recent times of playing the declining sides at the correct times.
Ashes 2010-11. Walloped a weak Australia 3-1
India 2010. Whitewashed the number 1, but declining, side 4-0
India 2012. Outclassed an ageing India in their own conditions 2-1
Now South Africa, coming off a mauling in India. England feasting like vultures on the remaining corpse of the soon to be former world number 1 side.
so what about Ashes 05?
Can't really say Aussies were declining then!
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Luck is always a man's best friend
You make your own luck and good teams always tend to have luck. I don't think it's a coincidence.
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My favourite bit was where we beat the Aussies.
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2005 I hope
Beating the best team aus could put out ever was pretty good
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Great session from England
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2005 I hope
Beating the best team aus could put out ever was pretty good
Any time we beat the Aussies :D
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You make your own luck and good teams always tend to have luck. I don't think it's a coincidence.
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England ain't any particularly special. Reliant more on luck than skill.
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England ain't any particularly special. Reliant more on luck than skill.
Let's hope they stay lucky then
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Let's hope they stay lucky then
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Stay lucky until the Ashes my friend. We've got another 5-0 lined up :D
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Stay lucky until the Ashes my friend. We've got another 5-0 lined up :D
Not with burns, Bailey, voges and a pace attack made of glass. Be interesting to see aus on a wicket such as this SA one against decent bowling.. I suspect they'd be massively found out batting wise.
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OH JIMMY JIMMY
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Not with burns, Bailey, voges and a pace attack made of glass. Be interesting to see aus on a wicket such as this SA one against decent bowling.. I suspect they'd be massively found out batting wise.
Pace attack made of glass? We've got about 7-8 top class bowlers.
As for Bailey, he doesn't play Tests. Voted will be retired. Burns will be a 25 Test veteran by then and his record is already pretty decent.
Pitches will be fast bag bouncy. Starc will test out the ticker at 155kph. Enjoy
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we cant win the ashes again for a while yet but we can win this against the number 1 ranked side in their home conditions so lets concentrate on that :)
As i type we got another lucky wicket :)
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we cant LOSE the ashes again for a while yet but we can win this against the number 1 ranked side in their home conditions so lets concentrate on that :)
As i type we got another lucky wicket :)
Corrected that for you
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Haha!! At least you have a sense of humour..
Good banter on the forum
:)
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Stuart Broad I love you
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Right we do not want a nervy chase here!!
Hales do whatever it takes to score some,hack it,flat foot drive,off the handle we dont care!
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I wonder if the BCCI will send England a few IPL contracts as they will become the world number 1 side...
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Aleem Dar is such a poor umpire really.
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Aleem Dar is such a poor umpire really.
Can pitch it off the strip and he wouldnt give it a wide..
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How long before KP becomes eligible for SA? #canopenwormseverywhere
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I would be amazed if Domingo still has a job after this Test. It's time for CSA to bring in the likes of Smith(he's very frank much like Boof) he'll get pride back into that Proteas cap of that there's no doubt. Get Pollock, Klusenar, Ntini into work with the bowlers. As far as I'm aware Donald doesn't want the job. Get Boucher in to help the keepers
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I would be amazed if Domingo still has a job after this Test. It's time for CSA to bring in the likes of Smith(he's very frank much like Boof) he'll get pride back into that Proteas cap of that there's no doubt. Get Pollock, Klusenar, Ntini into work with the bowlers. As far as I'm aware Donald doesn't want the job. Get Boucher in to help the keepers
Smith could still be opening !! This shower of crap aren't a patch on him
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Smith could still be opening !! This shower of crap aren't a patch on him
Elgar is a good player. Smith would replace van Zyl in a flash.
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Cook 22(27) Hales 5(27) Need to swap Hales with Compton, up the tempo a bit...
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Barmy Army need to recycle the Mitchell Johnson song for Viljoen.
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Viljoen might be a good brain teaser in a few years time.
Which Test cricketer hit a boundary with his first ball, took a wicket with his first ball. Never got another cap...
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There was a bowler called andre van troost i believe from a few years back who was frighteninly quick but no one knew where it was going. This bloke vijeon def has pace but it shouldnt worry proper batsmen unless its accurate as well
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TBH South Africa lost control of this match when Stokes was smashing it about yesterday. All good and well picking 4 quicks, but bowling quick without accuracy is worthless. Had the selected a spinner, the change of tempo could've reigned in the batsmen.
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Compton should have just stayed in his bunker and left cook to finish it off! shocker! >:(
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Compton out for a duck trying to get the 6 to win it in one ball
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TBH South Africa lost control of this match when Stokes was smashing it about yesterday. All good and well picking 4 quicks, but bowling quick without accuracy is worthless. Had the selected a spinner, the change of tempo could've reigned in the batsmen.
Or bowled with a brain instead of panicking and spraying it about giving stokes balls to slap and root an easier ride. SA brew the series away and England are good enough as a side not to miss out
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Compton wants to send those concaved sticks back to ss and get some more out of robertsbridge.
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Compton wants to send those concaved sticks back to ss and get some more out of robertsbridge.
😂👍
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Compton wants to send those concaved sticks back to ss and get some more out of robertsbridge.
Ooh meow, handbag required? ;) 😂
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Compton wants to send those concaved sticks back to ss and get some more out of robertsbridge.
Haha like that ! :)
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Alex Hales really is a bit crap...England should consider Compton as opener and bring back ballance
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I wish Cook had stayed till the victory. Oh, well.
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Cook wont be bothered,a series victory in SA with a game to spare.
Hope shane warne(hairpiece,make up and facelift) tweets his congratulations
Love you really Shane!
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Real end of an era for South African cricket, finally being displaced at the top of the ICC Test rankings. Shows how dominant they where that only after 9 matches without a win that only then they succumb from the top spot.
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Alex Hales really is a bit crap...England should consider Compton as opener and bring back ballance
I wouldn't disagree with that!
I do rate Hales in limited overs format but (as Buttler found out) going from short to Test format will take patience and doesn't always come off!
I would personally look at Cook/Compton to open which leaves Balance to come in at 3. Will be interested to see how long Hales is given before being replaced?
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Should Cook reach 10,000 Test runs in the next match he'll become the youngest to get there. Beating some little chap from India by around 10 months. Mind you that Indian chap will have got there in considerably fewer innings.
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It's simple, England are a side on the up and SA are a side on the down. South Africa are where England were 2 years ago, they've got potential to be a good side, Rabada looks a good player as does Bavuma. I think that on their day this England side could beat anyone, they have X Factor players in Stokes and Broad who turn games on their heads and (in my opinion) one of the best middle orders in world cricket, their pace attack looks in good shape with Finn back to his best, only slight issue is numbers 2 and 3 in the batting. Things are looking good for England going forward I think.
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It's simple, England are a side on the up and SA are a side on the down. South Africa are where England were 2 years ago, they've got potential to be a good side, Rabada looks a good player as does Bavuma. I think that on their day this England side could beat anyone, they have X Factor players in Stokes and Broad who turn games on their heads and (in my opinion) one of the best middle orders in world cricket, their pace attack looks in good shape with Finn back to his best, only slight issue is numbers 2 and 3 in the batting. Things are looking good for England going forward I think.
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Best middle orders in world cricket? Calm down fella. Root aside the rest are flakey as hell.
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I wouldn't disagree with that!
I do rate Hales in limited overs format but (as Buttler found out) going from short to Test format will take patience and doesn't always come off!
I would personally look at Cook/Compton to open which leaves Balance to come in at 3. Will be interested to see how long Hales is given before being replaced?
You're agreeing with me? :o
You feeling ok? ;)
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Best middle orders in world cricket? Calm down fella. Root aside the rest are flakey as hell.
Just my opinion mate. Barring Taylor whos only just starting out there's test tons from 3-9 (alright I'm pushing it with Broad.).
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Just my opinion mate. Barring Taylor whos only just starting out there's test tons from 3-9 (alright I'm pushing it with Broad.).
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It doesn't quite work like that though.
Yes they've all got 100s but it's how consistently they can get 100s. Only Root consistently gets runs in that middle order hence why his average is 55. The rest average in the 30s because they aren't consistent. I'm excluding Taylor because he's only batted 8/9 times.
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It doesn't quite work like that though.
Yes they've all got 100s but it's how consistently they can get 100s. Only Root consistently gets runs in that middle order hence why his average is 55. The rest average in the 30s because they aren't consistent. I'm excluding Taylor because he's only batted 8/9 times.
I agree to an extent but Bairstow looks a different player since coming back into the side and Stokes has a higher batting average in his current slot at 6 than his career average due to being messed arpund batting at 8 earlier in his career and even so is there a batting 6 all rounder you'd rather have in your team at the moment?
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I agree to an extent but Bairstow looks a different player since coming back into the side and Stokes has a higher batting average in his current slot at 6 than his career average due to being messed arpund batting at 8 earlier in his career and even so is there a batting 6 all rounder you'd rather have in your team at the moment?
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I'll give you Stokes but I still need convincing with Bairstow...not sure about his ticker TBH.
I like a good all rounder...hoping Corey Anderson get back near his best. Mitchell Marsh live up to the hype. James Faulkner isn't half bad either. Could see the all rounder wars from the 80s again.
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I don't rate Marsh but I do like Faulkner! Also like Shakib from Bangladesh and Mathews, althogh he doesn't bowl much since taking the captaincy, carries that Sri Lankan side with the bat post Sanga and Jaya.
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I don't rate Marsh but I do like Faulkner! Also like Shakib from Bangladesh and Mathews, althogh he doesn't bowl much since taking the captaincy, carries that Sri Lankan side with the bat post Sanga and Jaya.
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In terms of pure all rounder Al Hasan is probably the only one that could get picked either as a pure batsman or pure bowler. Lad is class 👍🏼
Marsh gets picked because of his daddy...
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Holy crap. Mark down the date, I wholeheartedly agree with everything you just said.
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SA have major rebuilding to do. Less the number of changes now but more the time period over which they will continue to lose players. Losing Smith, kallis, Boucher is enough of a problem but Steyn could be going soon possibily? Ab is 32, amla 32, morkel 31. In 2-3 years the heart will be ripped out of the saffa team. They need more players like Rabada and quickly.
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As much as I enjoyed the victory, for me Hales and Compton have no place in test match cricket, the sooner we find replacements the better, it's obvious to see they can't hack this level and their lack of self belief is evident.
I know this will upset some members and I really wanted them to succeed but you can't ignore the obvious.
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Vilas is also 30 he will soon follow, didnt realise Morkel was 31 , he still looks 20!
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As much as I enjoyed the victory, for me Hales and Compton have no place in test match cricket, the sooner we find replacements the better, it's obvious to see they can't hack this level and their lack of self belief is evident.
I know this will upset some members and I really wanted them to succeed but you can't ignore the obvious.
You've litterally given hales 3 tests. If you gave everyone 3 tests we would be test players in 5 years! Rob Key had it right on sky this morning. I think he is expecting to be bounced alot more in tests and is sitting on the back foot. His weight isnt going forward, if you watch any of his brilliant hundreds which ive had the pleasure of he's stride is massive and his hand come through the ball so well! This is obvious for any decent batsman but how long did england believe in Bell and Cook, Lyth also had 7 tests why is he off the scene so quickly. There has to be a balance correct but there also has to be a time where you say look, forget this is a test go smash 50 come back and eat some pie. Then next innings do the same, you'll so find yourself a different batsman. Bayliss will tell him this and im sure he's told cook the same.
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You've litterally given hales 3 tests. If you gave everyone 3 tests we would be test players in 5 years! Rob Key had it right on sky this morning. I think he is expecting to be bounced alot more in tests and is sitting on the back foot. His weight isnt going forward, if you watch any of his brilliant hundreds which ive had the pleasure of he's stride is massive and his hand come through the ball so well! This is obvious for any decent batsman but how long did england believe in Bell and Cook, Lyth also had 7 tests why is he off the scene so quickly. There has to be a balance correct but there also has to be a time where you say look, forget this is a test go smash 50 come back and eat some pie. Then next innings do the same, you'll so find yourself a different batsman. Bayliss will tell him this and im sure he's told cook the same.
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Don't get me wrong I really want the lad to do well but you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
Test cricket is a totally different level and if you don't have confidence in you're own ability it's hard to convince others that you belong.
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You've litterally given hales 3 tests. If you gave everyone 3 tests we would be test players in 5 years! Rob Key had it right on sky this morning. I think he is expecting to be bounced alot more in tests and is sitting on the back foot. His weight isnt going forward, if you watch any of his brilliant hundreds which ive had the pleasure of he's stride is massive and his hand come through the ball so well! This is obvious for any decent batsman but how long did england believe in Bell and Cook, Lyth also had 7 tests why is he off the scene so quickly. There has to be a balance correct but there also has to be a time where you say look, forget this is a test go smash 50 come back and eat some pie. Then next innings do the same, you'll so find yourself a different batsman. Bayliss will tell him this and im sure he's told cook the same.
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'Massive stride' - is that code for plant the front foot and throw bat through ball?? Maybe he's hanging back because he can't play short bowling.... Which, is vital to play test cricket. Hales was never and will never be good enough, the fact he's scored runs in lvcc should be th worrying thing.
Hales reminds me of amateur players tbh, front foot dropper who just throws the bat (obviously he's a lot better than amateurs but you see so many amateurs with similar techniques who just hit but get away with it due to crap wickets and lack of pace).. Hales unfortunately doesn't have that in test cricket, white ball you get away with it due to the rules
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Who would you bring in instead then?
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It's the lack of self belief for me, I think he knows he's not good enough.
You need to know you belong, you look at Root, Stokes even Taylor(even though his avg is only mid 20s) they all have that belief, like it's their destiny to get to and stay at the top level, I have avoided using arrogance because I feel it can be regarded as a somewhat negative trait, but call it what you will the guys I listed all have what it takes in my opinion.
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Who would you bring in instead then?
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Very good question, but for me neither Hales or Compton are the answers to their current roles.
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(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160116/ced6d8fd79dcb6e0977c06f1141076d5.jpg)
Think this says enough.
1. We dont persevere
2. We are also looking for too much.
3. Cook + Strauss opening stand average of 40, average opening partnership with anyone since strauss retired is also 36, between this series started and then this was only bettered by Australia, India and Bangladesh.
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We almost look a very good side but we are missing a few elements and I don't have the answers, but persevering with these two isn't the way forward.
I dislike being negative towards either player, I always want the players selected for our national sides to succeed whether it's cricket, football, rugby, etc but to keep moving forward you have to be realistic.
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I would expect the next option would be Roy(not a chance!), Vince(probably not), reverting back to a former opener, Chopra or last but not least Bell-Drummond
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Move Compton up to open and Hales to 7 if that doesn't work find a spot for Balance.
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It's simple - Compton has better figures than Lyth, etc. And Root needs to stay at 4 where he seems most comfortable!
And as Balance averages just under 48 in International Tests, surely he deserves a chance?
I think Cook, Compton, Ballance, Root, Taylor, Stokes, Bairstow, Ali, Broad, Finn, Anderson looks a decent line up and would hopefully add a bit more stability to the top order? Middle order (4-7 or 8) seem to fire quite well under pressure, as they have needed to do due to a fragile start so far. But imagine how well they could bat if the top 3 batted quite well!!
I know we should give Hales a chance, but I'm not convinced that he is the answer in the Test team!
Anyway time will tell I guess!
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I would expect the next option would be Roy(not a chance!), Vince(probably not), reverting back to a former opener, Chopra or last but not least Bell-Drummond
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My argument for dropping Hales and Compton is full of holes because I don't know the solution, but the guys you have listed are untried at test level but maybe deserve a chance?, I don't know?, but in my view H and C and Balance for that matter neither have the temperament or technique for test cricket.
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3 of the last 4 openers England have tried don't even open for their County sides in the Championship, maybe try opening with an actual opener if you want them to do well (or is that too sensible a solution?)
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It's simple - Compton has better figures than Lyth, etc. And Root needs to stay at 4 where he seems most comfortable!
And as Balance averages just under 48 in International Tests, surely he deserves a chance?
I think Cook, Compton, Ballance, Root, Taylor, Stokes, Bairstow, Ali, Broad, Finn, Anderson looks a decent line up and would hopefully add a bit more stability to the top order? Middle order (4-7 or 8) seem to fire quite well under pressure, as they have needed to do due to a fragile start so far. But imagine how well they could bat if the top 3 batted quite well!!
I know we should give Hales a chance, but I'm not convinced that he is the answer in the Test team!
Anyway time will tell I guess!
The thing for me Pete is that it's ok to quote numbers, this guy averages this and he averages that, but do they really look like international players, Hales could go on to hit a ton at Centurion resulting in him being selected for the next tour but in my opinion this wouldn't make him a test opener, its happened countless times before where players save their careers when it doesn't matter.
You've either got it or you haven't.
I'd like to repeat that I don't have the answers.
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Well, you think national and county coaches would know if a technique is good enough or not without 'taking a look'. Tbh, the game has changed now. Counties are not looking for technically sound players who play like cook/Williamson etc. They are after hales/Roy types. Money is in white ball stuff so why bother paying for a guy who can bat for 300 balls for 100-150 runs and unable to biff.
Money talks.
Obviously the genuine class players like posting, Hussey, sangakkara can change their game but we are seeing.p the majority can't and are being asked to 'do a job'. Also, it does ask questions of lvcc though if these technical issues aren't being discovered or found out.
Compton is t going to be anything other than avg but he's the best England have for top order test batting
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3 of the last 4 openers England have tried don't even open for their County sides in the Championship, maybe try opening with an actual opener if you want them to do well (or is that too sensible a solution?)
Trouble is, due to white ball these openers are more like hitters than test openers/top order
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Im old school- i think your openers are your best techically correct players-or your top 4 if you like.The ball does more and you need to be able to handle that otherwise your team would be stuffed-no side wins matches if you are regularly 20-3.
Seniorplayer made the point long term hales could move down.Thats not the worst suggestion ive heard on here.
compton must be stuck with..he is doing a job for the team..a bit dull? Maybe but this is not a sunday knock about
:)
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Takie dull with guys who can see off the new ball and the opening bowlers over 20 for 3 in the first 15 overs wins every time
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well well well my long term prediction has come true it a shame some of you so called England fans have got on the band wagon.
Back a horse long enough have a little faith they tend to pull through well done England thats two series half this forum thought you didn't have a hell in hope of winning. Please don't come back with injurys blah blah blah..
Where Gez my man when we need him.
Broad hey who would have thought it .
I don't care who they pick they know more than me and Farbrace is the man he has that aura about him well done the boys
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Well, you think national and county coaches would know if a technique is good enough or not without 'taking a look'. Tbh, the game has changed now. Counties are not looking for technically sound players who play like cook/Williamson etc. They are after hales/Roy types. Money is in white ball stuff so why bother paying for a guy who can bat for 300 balls for 100-150 runs and unable to biff.
Money talks.
Obviously the genuine class players like posting, Hussey, sangakkara can change their game but we are seeing.p the majority can't and are being asked to 'do a job'. Also, it does ask questions of lvcc though if these technical issues aren't being discovered or found out.
Compton is t going to be anything other than avg but he's the best England have for top order test batting
WARNING!, too long don't read;
You make some good points, but if we are going to examine techniques and more to the point coaching techniques, is there really a set rule?.
I struggle to find examples of a perfect technique even at the top level, no two batsmen seem to have an identical posture, stance, etc and as far as coaches go just because you have the badges it doesn't mean you know what you are talking about, no matter what the level.
How did Gary Balance, Steve Smith, Shiv Chandrepal etc, etc , etc get so far with such glaringly obvious flaws? my thoughts are that they have an extremely good eye, imagine how good these players would be if they had been coached a set fast technique at a young age instead of being told 'if it's not broke don't fix it' type of coaching. I'm sure they have all tried different tweaks at some stage in their careers but because of the results orientated nature of sport they don't give the changes long enough to improve from their previous technique.
If you look at golf for an example, there is such a thing as a *perfect swing and most pros will try to emulate this but for some they just can't seem to replicate it for varying reasons and although they can have very successful careers they still won't be as consistant as the Mclroys of the golfing world. I've heard it said a few times that a golfer can't take up to three months of constant practice before a tweak can become beneficial, muscle memory I guess.
* even from the top coaches the perception of the 'perfect swing' has changed over the past 5-10 years.
I've put a lot of effort into this subject on a personal level (having only token up cricket four years ago) and although I've never been coached I've done a lot of research and there doesn't seem to be a consistant ethos from one coaching resource to another.
Ok, I think I should stop here for now, starting to bore myself, and this probably is a subject for another thread and I do apologise for the essay and poor grammar.
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Someone needs to tell Hales to bat normally, watching him play and seeing all the pre-series media stuff England put out he's clearly trying to change his game for tests. Needs to be told he's been picked for the runs he's made his way and to go out and just bat, he looks scared to play shots at times. Balance isn't going to make it as a test batsman again unless he changes his technique, every bowler out there's got his number now and he's refused to change.
For me this series was always about Amla/AB v England's bowling, and England's bowlers have delivered! Hopefully the side doing well means newer players get the time and confidence to bed in to test matches. Gonna go out on a limb though and say Anderson will be finished by the end of 2016.
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Someone needs to tell Hales to bat normally, watching him play and seeing all the pre-series media stuff England put out he's clearly trying to change his game for tests. Needs to be told he's been picked for the runs he's made his way and to go out and just bat, he looks scared to play shots at times. Balance isn't going to make it as a test batsman again unless he changes his technique, every bowler out there's got his number now and he's refused to change.
For me this series was always about Amla/AB v England's bowling, and England's bowlers have delivered! Hopefully the side doing well means newer players get the time and confidence to bed in to test matches. Gonna go out on a limb though and say Anderson will be finished by the end of 2016.
Hi edge, really looking forward to tomorrow, can't wait tbh.
The thing for me about Ballance is that he must have an extremely good eye to get as far in the game up to now with such an exploitable technique.
He's still young enough to have a major overhaul and basically start again, it may take six months or longer out of international cricket but surely this would be profitable long term.
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I'd love Ballance to succeed, his technique isn't great but I think the kids got the balls needed to play international sport, would love to see him back, but I've got it in my head that he needs to bat at 5 with Taylor at 3, can't give you a good reason why it's just a gut instinct haha
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Having a good eye is not enough
It's having the will to compete,adapt, and genuinely want it
KP is a perfect example
There's some good lads in that England squad
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For Ballance, Mark Butcher is a better example.
When he gets back to the UK, Ballance should pick up the phone to Alan Butcher and say: make me a test batsman please. The ecb should pick up the check.
It will be worth it.
Note that Broad is now the no1 ranked test bowler.
Not bad for a right arm medium pacer.
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Note that Broad is now the no1 ranked test bowler.
Not bad for a right arm medium pacer.
I don't agree with the rankings, how the fudge was Ashwin number 1 😏, but Broad's doing something Anderson could never do...Broad is the leader of the attack
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I don't agree with the rankings, how the fudge was Ashwin number 1 😏, but Broad's doing something Anderson could never do...Broad is the leader of the attack
The rankings are skewed towards short term performances albeit built on a long term base. They ought to be changed yearly, not every match. Ashwin gets loads of wickets on square turners against SA, gets bumped up. Broad gets six and gets bumped up - probably rightly based on decent efforts in the UAE as well. If you are thereabouts and stay fit you will always have a chance of being top of the rankings. Steyn ought to be top, but he can't stay fit
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For Ballance, Mark Butcher is a better example.
When he gets back to the UK, Ballance should pick up the phone to Alan Butcher and say: make me a test batsman please. The ecb should pick up the check.
It will be worth it.
Note that Broad is now the no1 ranked test bowler.
Not bad for a right arm medium pacer.
I must be honest and say I haven't seen Ballance bat since he got dropped, in fact I know little about his county career but coaches must have offered up advice to him over the years and he may have either tried and not persevered or just stuck to what he knows best to get him to where he is.
His record at county level speaks for itself but it seems that at the very top he's exploitable, the England selectors/coaches must feel this for him not to playing after all his test average is nudging 48.
I think I remember reading on hear that when Cook went through his slump and he stopped working with Gooch, that he called in Gary Palmer, this may be incorrect?, but surely Cook could have said to Ballance 'why don't you try this guy'?.
For me Ballance seems to have the temperament for test cricket but with the work opposing teams/analysists do these days he's must be easy to plan to.
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cook never stopped working with Goochie,still does,but it was Gooch himself who asked Palmer to help Cook-and he did.
Cooks set up has changed a bit but he himself obviously knew there was an issue.ballance knows there is an issue but chooses so far to rely on his game unchanged...so he doesn't want help.
No coach can help technique if the player himself wants to stay as it is
Everyone has technical faults ,some as so good they still score heavily,some will stop them getting to the higher level.
I like ballance myself and he is in the touring squad soonish after being dropped-so England know he has what it takes.
It looks like he is the next batsman in line....
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I will say this again the image some of you have of Broad is laughable he is a genuine top bloke and the people who know him (i'm not one) all say them same. He just a lad who enjoys being a professional cricketer and is incredibly humble with it.
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You all go on about Ballance being "found out" at Test level but how much of a flaw has really been found in his technique?
In effect, Boult, Johnson and Starc exposed a flaw against world class 90mph left arm away swing when the ball was pitched very full. He didn't have the same problems against right armers, nor against even slightly lower standard lefties. It follows that this is not really the basis for a complete overhaul of a technique and temprament that had seen him average 48 in Tests - especially given he made a gutsy 61 in the first innings at Cardiff almost immediately before he was dropped.
I do though think that England need to think more about how to help players coming into the side. Compton is a good example of this - he looks so much better at three than he did opening - and Ballance should be given a chance to bat as he does for Yorkshire at five or six. That's his natural spot...
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I will say this again the image some of you have of Broad is laughable he is a genuine top bloke and the people who know him (i'm not one) all say them same. He just a lad who enjoys being a professional cricketer and is incredibly humble with it.
I don't know him from Adam, but i can't understand it either. Always comes across as a nice bloke who loves his job, and I genuinely think he's world class. Batting suffered a bit after being hit but I'm sure it would shake almost anyone up the way he got hit. Bowling wise he's top drawer, and much better when he bowls that fuller length.
Seems to cop a fair bit of stick for no reason.
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There a group of very good players if Ballance wants to play again and do well he will have/still have to adapt however his mentality for me can not be questioned and if he wants it i expect him to be back when given a chance.
Another is Rashid who always had talent but left you feeling underwhelmed but he done something or become more consistant or i have watched him more than i normally do.
All i know is there seems a good core of players and there some very good waiting in the wings in all formats.
I get the feeling anybody is pickable now which can only be good for English cricket we have alot to cheer about at minute .
Nobody can be discarded if they do well hopefully they will be given a go Bairstow is repaying that now in my eyes was talking to a first class umpire the other day who says he is unstoppable when on form and i see his point.
And no i'm not a Yorkie womble
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the idea to send Rashid to Australia too was a masterstroke we all moaned about it but in hindsight which maybe the management had (ie not much game time for Rashid in SA) it all come good for a challenging environment.
Gonna be some right contests for places over the next few series in all formats
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the idea to send Rashid to Australia too was a masterstroke we all moaned about it but in hindsight which maybe the management had (ie not much game time for Rashid in SA) it all come good for a challenging environment.
Gonna be some right contests for places over the next few series in all formats
TBH Rashid is all too similar to Imran Tahir. He'll be excellent in ODI/T20 cricket for England but in Test matches the better players will just pick him off as he bowls to much filth.
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TBH Rashid is all too similar to Imran Tahir. He'll be excellent in ODI/T20 cricket for England but in Test matches the better players will just pick him off as he bowls to much filth.
Maybe that is so but i leave it to better qualified people than me and you to make that judgement looks good for England even your "legends" where calling his quality if you can't read it you can't read it!!!!
Just all bode well for English cricket
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You all go on about Ballance being "found out" at Test level but how much of a flaw has really been found in his technique?
In effect, Boult, Johnson and Starc exposed a flaw against world class 90mph left arm away swing when the ball was pitched very full. He didn't have the same problems against right armers, nor against even slightly lower standard lefties. It follows that this is not really the basis for a complete overhaul of a technique and temprament that had seen him average 48 in Tests - especially given he made a gutsy 61 in the first innings at Cardiff almost immediately before he was dropped.
I do though think that England need to think more about how to help players coming into the side. Compton is a good example of this - he looks so much better at three than he did opening - and Ballance should be given a chance to bat as he does for Yorkshire at five or six. That's his natural spot...
Yes well said.....bAllance has scored runs as he is...he's also got a strong mind to not go changing things-it's either mentally tough or stubborn-time will tell I suppose no one knows how he will go back in the team.
The problem with your theory thou...ideal as it is... Not everyone can bat in their county positions-sometimes the slots available are not the normal ones....some of them have to take what's available.ballance jumped 3 positions to play for England.
He will either have to sit and wait for a gap at 5 or 6,or..... If hales does not work out Compton moves up to create a spot in the middle,then who bats 3? Does ballance get that again because that's all that is available?
Tricky to fit in I would suggest-at the moment.
And we are presuming Ian bell has played his last test also...
It's not that easy
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You all go on about Ballance being "found out" at Test level but how much of a flaw has really been found in his technique?
In effect, Boult, Johnson and Starc exposed a flaw against world class 90mph left arm away swing when the ball was pitched very full. He didn't have the same problems against right armers, nor against even slightly lower standard lefties. It follows that this is not really the basis for a complete overhaul of a technique and temprament that had seen him average 48 in Tests - especially given he made a gutsy 61 in the first innings at Cardiff almost immediately before he was dropped.
I do though think that England need to think more about how to help players coming into the side. Compton is a good example of this - he looks so much better at three than he did opening - and Ballance should be given a chance to bat as he does for Yorkshire at five or six. That's his natural spot...
So Ballance hasn't been found out but the bowlers where world class?
Therefore he only succeeded because he faced the inept bowling attacks of Sri Lanka and India in conditions not suited to their bowling attacks. And the West Indies who's attack is worst than the other two.
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Maybe that is so but i leave it to better qualified people than me and you to make that judgement looks good for England even your "legends" where calling his quality if you can't read it you can't read it!!!!
Just all bode well for English cricket
Australians can't play spin mate!
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of course he has been found out but your telling me not many have not of course he should it called test cricket for a reason.
It's how he comes back which will determine his quality.
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Australians can't play spin mate!
you bore me you look for a raise, all i know is England are doing ok and the playing spin is not limited to just Australia.
I notice there a few who do not like England doing well makes it sweet!!!
Australia now South Africa have fallen to the sword
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you bore me you look for a raise all i know is England are doing ok and the playing spin is not limited to just Australia.
Not sure why you're throwing a hissy TBH. I gave you a fact. We've been whitewashed by India and Pakistan in the recent past.
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No hissy pal just first Jeet then Gez you seem to be the third instalment.
You cant play decent seam either by the looks but hey i guess your only as good as your last game...
sorry i'm very patriotic win or lose maybe a tad harsh !!!!
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Aussie if your saying a test average of 48 is only good enough against low quality opposition and by definition not good enough more than half of your team s batsmen would be thrown out,more than half of ours as well
That's a very very high standard you are setting...
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Troll lol lol lol lalala
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Yes well said.....bAllance has scored runs as he is...he's also got a strong mind to not go changing things-it's either mentally tough or stubborn-time will tell I suppose no one knows how he will go back in the team.
The problem with your theory thou...ideal as it is... Not everyone can bat in their county positions-sometimes the slots available are not the normal ones....some of them have to take what's available.ballance jumped 3 positions to play for England.
He will either have to sit and wait for a gap at 5 or 6,or..... If hales does not work out Compton moves up to create a spot in the middle,then who bats 3? Does ballance get that again because that's all that is available?
Tricky to fit in I would suggest-at the moment.
And we are presuming Ian bell has played his last test also...
It's not that easy
Well Taylor bats at three for Notts?
Though he should be batting seven for England.
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There a group of very good players if Ballance wants to play again and do well he will have/still have to adapt however his mentality for me can not be questioned and if he wants it i expect him to be back when given a chance.
(These are all my uneducated observations.
I think you are bang on about him having the temperament, but I feel he needs to improve his approach technically if he is going to be consistent against top class test bowling).
Another is Rashid who always had talent but left you feeling underwhelmed but he done something or become more consistant or i have watched him more than i normally do.
(I've watched every ball Rashid has bowled in the big bash and he has been absolutely brilliant, maybe the bowler of the tournament to date).
All i know is there seems a good core of players and there some very good waiting in the wings in all formats.
(Also spot on here Dave, so much to be positive about but if we want to be the best the players in contention need keep improving as individuals).
I get the feeling anybody is pickable now which can only be good for English cricket we have alot to cheer about at minute .
Nobody can be discarded if they do well hopefully they will be given a go Bairstow is repaying that now in my eyes was talking to a first class umpire the other day who says he is unstoppable when on form and i see his point.
(Bairstow is a great example of a player getting dropped then going back to his county and working hard on the areas where he was week, he's come on leaps and bounds since his exclusion and long may it continue).
And no i'm not a Yorkie womble
I don't know how to highlight my points, sorry.
I've tried to make it more readable but it's still a mess, apologies.
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Some very good points made i think it easy to be negative then to look at positives by so many agree with your points pal i was talking to a first class umpire the other day who was umpiring Bairstow at Scarborough and said best he has seen for a couple of years in any form of cricket.
competition is key for places keeps people on there toes and also improves the quality. But i get a feel good factor where players are told to go out there and perform a selecting in instead of the old feeling selecting out policy.
very positive.
Look at some of the players who could we seem to be moving forward after a few years of uncertainty.
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Barstow has been a breath of fresh air.
Another point I'd like to make is the contribution of Farbrace, every time I've seen him interviewed he comes across as a top bloke, talks so much sense in a calm and rational manner and a great foil to the media shy Bayliss who seems to have had a huge impact behind the scenes.
Things are looking up from a fans perspective.
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Never rated Bairstow at 5 in his previous goes in the side, but good form and the move to keeping/7 has worked for him, finally looks at home in the side. Fingers crossed his keeping improves as it has for many previous England keepers, big box ticked for England if he can.
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Never rated Bairstow at 5 in his previous goes in the side, but good form and the move to keeping/7 has worked for him, finally looks at home in the side. Fingers crossed his keeping improves as it has for many previous England keepers, big box ticked for England if he can.
I agree edge and the competition for the keeping spot he has with Buttler seems to be positive, Jos doesn't appear to be the type of guy to have a sulk but rather knuckle down and work hard to get back in, maybe in time there could be room for both, I don't know?.
All the lads seem to get on well, you can see in the way celebrate with each other, another positive and long may it continue.
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Think the biggest issue is who takes the gloves in the one dayers if bairstow keeps the form, difficult to get them both in the team but they both would be for me
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Think the biggest issue is who takes the gloves in the one dayers if bairstow keeps the form, difficult to get them both in the team but they both would be for me
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Good point and I don't think you can leave Buttler out of the white ball stuff, he's far too destructive and can win a game on his own.
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Only way i could spin it is drop Taylor, stokes/Bairstow/Buttler bat wherever depending on the situation, but then again i dont recall Taylor doing too much wrong in the white ball game
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Only way i could spin it is drop Taylor, stokes/Bairstow/Buttler bat wherever depending on the situation, but then again i dont recall Taylor doing too much wrong in the white ball game
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it's funny how Taylor got a game for England first playing white ball, considering up to two years go he was shocking in white ball for notts
Slowed the game down way too much, pitting pressure on the lower order
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it's funny how Taylor got a game for England first playing white ball, considering up to two years go he was shocking in white ball for notts
Slowed the game down way too much, pitting pressure on the lower order
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Always need someone to rebuild an innings with destructive players around them, averages 42 aswell ...
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Yeh he does it brilliantly now, and at a decent strike rate and average
I just find it amusing how two years ago he was purely a red ball player, yet he got his first proper run in an England side in limited overs cricket
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Only way i could spin it is drop Taylor, stokes/Bairstow/Buttler bat wherever depending on the situation, but then again i dont recall Taylor doing too much wrong in the white ball game
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It's nice to have the competiton for places especially in white ball as far as the batting goes, I feel that we have had strength in depth in the bowling department for a while now and players like Plunket, Jordan and one or two others may feel hard done by.
We still need a test opener and a number three in my opinion and I'd rather have Bell come back in than persist with Compton but that's just my view and maybe not the long term solution.
This is going to be left field and cause a few groans and I know it's been tried already but trying Root again as opener could possibly solve some issues, he's a year or two older than when it was tried previously and tbh I think the lad can play anywhere he's that good.
He seems like the type who'd snap you're hand off at the chance to bat for as long as possible and I know he can look a bit scratchy sometimes for the first half dozen balls or so but it could be an option, controvesial I know but there I've said it and I'm preparing myself for the fallout.
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There's going to be a lot of square pegs in round holes in the test team. I cant even hazard a guess to the solution! Those in and around the bowling set up excite me however!
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For tests I'm with Edge, Bairstow looks at home keeping and batting 7, much like Stokes did when he got moved up to bat 6. I don't see a reason why Buttler and Bairstow couldn't potentially play in the same one day side with Buttler as a specialist batsman, same with Buttler and Billings in T20, in white ball cricket Buttler would warrant his place as a batsman even if he couldn't keep.
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For tests I'm with Edge, Bairstow looks at home keeping and batting 7, much like Stokes did when he got moved up to bat 6. I don't see a reason why Buttler and Bairstow couldn't potentially play in the same one day side with Buttler as a specialist batsman, same with Buttler and Billings in T20, in white ball cricket Buttler would warrant his place as a batsman even if he couldn't keep.
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I think it could help Buttler maybe batting at 4 or 5 as a specialist batter in the odi side bring his game on
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I think it could help Buttler maybe batting at 4 or 5 as a specialist batter in the odi side bring his game on
My thoughts exactly Dave, especially in T20 stuff, ODI's he has time to make big scores from almost anywhere in the order but if he's not keeping I don't see why he couldn't even bat 3 in T20.
As an aside I'm paying my first visit to B3 tomorrow to pick up my Pepsi, can't wait!
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For tests I'm with Edge, Bairstow looks at home keeping and batting 7, much like Stokes did when he got moved up to bat 6.
Hmmm...given how badly he has been messed around by the England selectors, I wouldn't read too much into anything between his two scores against the (genuinely world class) Yarpie side three and a half years back and the first test f his recall last Summer.
Since then, he scored more in one dig than the entire Aussie side, looked reasonable in the gulf in the conditions to which he was least suited, and has been titanic in this series. Look at the figures - 345 runs at a very good lick for three out. That's very impressive...and then you have to take into account that all three dismissals came when he was with ten and jack and having to take obscene risks. No South African bowler has dismissed him until the slog was on...
...how many would he have scored in his rightful spot at five?
"Rightful", you ask? Well, at the start of the Pakistan series, he was deemed our best bet at five and he did nothing to merit losing the spot. By all means give him the gloves, but he should have stayed in situ with Taylor brought in further down.
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I like the idea of Bairstow in Test matches and Buttler in the white ball stuff...
It allows Buttler to play in the IPL further his skill against the best and become a better around player!
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I think it could help Buttler maybe batting at 4 or 5 as a specialist batter in the odi side bring his game on
as big of a Bairstow fan as I am, if both play Buttler keeps. He's just that bit better behind the sticks. And Jonny is a gun outfielder to boot.
Hales
Ali
Root
Morgan
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Rashid
Plunkett
Willey
Finn/Wood
Roy and Taylor provide decent back up for the one day side.
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as big of a Bairstow fan as I am, if both play Buttler keeps. He's just that bit better behind the sticks. And Jonny is a gun outfielder to boot
Are we on about the same Buttler & Bairstow? Ron Weasley is easily the better keeper of the two.
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How's this for an ODI/T20 set up:
2 from Hales, Roy, Vince at
1.
2.
4 from Root, Taylor, Buttler, Bairstow, Stokes, Moeen, Morgan, Vince, Billings at
3.
4.
5.
6.
(obvs one keeper and at least one all rounder in there and presume Morgs is ever present as skipper, but I'd rotate who plays dependent on pitch, opposition, plus chance to rest test players)
3 from Willey, Woakes, Moeen, Rashid at
7.
8.
9.
(again dependent on pitch, oppo, plus rotation, though I expect Rashid to be ever present)
Leaving 2 from Finn, Topley, Plunkett, Jordan (plus possible some other seamer i can't think of) at
10.
11.
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looks good Johnny.
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Bairstow to keep, billings as specialist gun fielder
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Hales
Roy
Root
Morgan
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Willey
Rashid
Jordan/Woakes/Topley
Finn
How I'd be looking at it going into the T20WC personally, assuming Plunkett has done something that's mucked up his chance in some way. I just can't see another way to fit another keeper into that top 6 really.
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Who else would like to seen KP and Luke Wright have some sort of involvement during the tournament? Either playing or coaching both have a lot of T20 experience especially in India!
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So South Africa have finally added Stephen Cook(only took 11,000+ FC runs and 35 100s...) into their Test squad. Rilee Roussow and Cook are tipped to debut in the final Test. van Zyl and du Plessis facing the axe. Duminy and de Kock could also return.
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De Kock has to play as Vilas isn't in the squad.
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Du Plessis has been on borrowed time for a while
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Stiann van Zyl released from squad and Dale Steyn ruled out.
Bizarrely Quinton de Kock will undergo 'final fitness test' the day before the Test...
Cook looks more than likely to debut
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De Kock has to play as Vilas isn't in the squad.
My mistake I didn't realise Vilas was dropped.
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My mistake I didn't realise Vilas was dropped.
Was he ever technically in the squad??
De kock was to keep. He declared himself unfit. De villiers said not a chance.
So villas was whisked across SA to keep without being added to squad.
Squad changes announced. Villas neither added or dropped as wasn't in there to begin with.!
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Looks as though Finn is ruled out for a while!
Plunkett will probably replace him in ODI? But I recon Woakes will be brought in for the final Test.
I would love to see:
Cook
Compton
Ballance
Root
Taylor
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Broad
Footitt
Anderson
They could even say that they are saving Hales for the other formats! But can't see them moving Compton up and bringing Ballance in!
And with Finn injured, it would be nice to see a left armer given a shot to see how he does. But I would put money on them bringing Woakes in to replace Finn!
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I really hope Footit gets the nod, I understand the thinking (although not necessarily the decision itself) in using Woakes to replace either Broad or Anderson but Finn brings something different as would Footit.
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I really hope Footit gets the nod, I understand the thinking (although not necessarily the decision itself) in using Woakes to replace either Broad or Anderson but Finn brings something different as would Footit.
Don't get me wrong...Woakes has improved in speed and skill with his bowling and offers strong batting too. But like you, Footitt would offer something decent and different in the bowing line-up! And as the series is already won, now would be the perfect time to try out a couple of players and slightly different line-up?
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Don't get me wrong...Woakes has improved in speed and skill with his bowling and offers strong batting too. But like you, Footitt would offer something decent and different in the bowing line-up! And as the series is already won, now would be the perfect time to try out a couple of players and slightly different line-up?
You're a man after my own heart Pete haha, my thoughts exactly, surely with the series in the bag it's the ideal opportunity.
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sounds like Footit has been a bit all over the shop but if it's a straight swap for pace he should get a chance,he's def got wheels
I hope he does play we know what Woakes can do...England might be conservative thou as they wont want too many overs from Broad and Anderson if Footit sprays it.
It's a good time to give the guy a run out but whether England look at it like that I doubt.Hope i'm wrong.
Hales will get another go and quite right, whether he should be there in the first place is debatable, but now he is you got to give the guy a decent run...
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As already stated timings right Let's give footit an opportunity as we know what Woakes is capable of and it's not that much....
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sounds like Footit has been a bit all over the shop but if it's a straight swap for pace he should get a chance,he's def got wheels
I hope he does play we know what Woakes can do...England might be conservative thou as they wont want too many overs from Broad and Anderson if Footit sprays it.
It's a good time to give the guy a run out but whether England look at it like that I doubt.Hope i'm wrong.
Hales will get another go and quite right, whether he should be there in the first place is debatable, but now he is you got to give the guy a decent run...
I know that everyone deserves a decent run out, but with the middle order looking very attacking, should be really need an attacking player as an opener?
And Hales was too cautious which indicated that he was not playing his natural game.....and that is surely not what England wanted? If Hales was going to open then he should be playing aggressive cricket! So if he is not, then I would prefer to see Cook and Compton try to keep things solid up top with Ballance backing them up.
Then Root, Stokes, Bairstow and Ali come in to hit it around a bit? But with Hales up top, it just seems a bit unbalanced!?
And Footitt would be good to see - he has some real pace and may even improve with a little more confidence! But we won't now unless he gets an opportunity!
And I actually rate Woakes as an improving player. He can bat well and he has put on a bit of speed this year. Plus he is young enough to show further improvements! But as I said, I'm sure he'll have his chances. So give Footitt a go!
Anyway, let's see what they decide to do for the 4th Test!
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there's a 1001 posts on Hales before the series started big fella, at one point it nearly overtook the 'M and H bats made in England' thread that nearly blew the server(admin have a back up server in...INDIA !!!)
just kidding lads :)
He's not playing aggressive cricket because he can't, he's not the new David Warner,the Aussie we(some) love to hate. Warner is a seriously talented bloke and let's be honest, as great as England have been,the SA bowling attack without Steyn is not the same.Hales is trying to get himself in and play more carefully, you can't really blame the bloke.
I hope he gets a ton at the next game I really do, but I think England should of given Lyth this tour(yes I know he got found out but he's the best of the current openers).
Compton has got in the side as a block if Hales goes for a low score....as has done well.
Should Hales not get a score in the next test I've no idea whether he will keep his place for the summer's tests, he's a shoe in for the one dayers but Tests? i'm not convinced......
by the amount of players we have tried opening, it's pretty obvious England don't know whether to stick or twist
:)
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there's a 1001 posts on Hales before the series started big fella, at one point it nearly overtook the 'M and H bats made in England' thread that nearly blew the server(admin have a back up server in...INDIA !!!)
just kidding lads :)
The backup server is made in India but it's sanded and stickered up here in England ;)
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Seems to me they're not going to get what they want, i.e. a quick scorer up top with Cook a la Warner, a game changer at 3 who can play as the mood suits (though we have one at four).
Compton could open with Cook, but that puts extra pressure on the skipper to score. I believe that you've got to give a new player at least two series, ideally home and away, or a summer at home. They can then assess based on temperament and technique as well as scores. Lyth may get another go, but he clearly didn't learn to leave the ball, which I acknowledge is difficult if he's listening to external and possibly internal (England staff) noises about quick scoring up top.
I think Hales is stuck in a stick or twist and it's clouding his thoughts. He may well not be good enough for Test cricket but let's give him at least the first series of our summer. They could play Compton with Cook, but then where do you go? Ballance at 3? I've never seen that as his ideal spot and Taylor isn't setting the world alight at 5.
A lot of uncertainties; 1,4,6 are nailed on, but 2,3,5 not so much.
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Taylor will get a hundred next test mark my words....
Maybe.
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I think Woakes is the official reserve for tests no matter who gets injured. England might also like to lengthen the batting further and play it safe, especially if SA persist with their idiotic policy of preparing grassy decks! I think Footitt was there as a first look, never a genuine test candidate and it wouldn't be the first time we've done that.
Still no idea why Samit and Jordan were there. Anyone else?
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I think Woakes is the official reserve for tests no matter who gets injured. England might also like to lengthen the batting further and play it safe, especially if SA persist with their idiotic policy of preparing grassy decks! I think Footitt was there as a first look, never a genuine test candidate and it wouldn't be the first time we've done that.
Still no idea why Samit and Jordan were there. Anyone else?
Samit is there as an extreme emergency back up spinner who can bat batsman who can spin in case Moeen got injured, I'm pretty sure Jordan must only be there as a sub fielder because in test cricket I don't see what else he brings.
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Samit is there as an extreme emergency back up spinner who can bat batsman who can spin in case Moeen got injured, I'm pretty sure Jordan must only be there as a sub fielder because in test cricket I don't see what else he brings.
All I see Samit do is high five Stokes when he got 250 odd and despite being possible one of the least mobile sub fielders England can find he's had a trundle round fine leg for a few overs. I did wonder if he was the teams food taster, but given Broads dodgy tummy he hasn't done a great job of that either. Anyway, he's had a nice holiday :D
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All I see Samit do is high five Stokes when he got 250 odd and despite being possible one of the least mobile sub fielders England can find he's had a trundle round fine leg for a few overs. I did wonder if he was the teams food taster, but given Broads dodgy tummy he hasn't done a great job of that either. Anyway, he's had a nice holiday :D
All expenses paid first class trip to South Africa including free tickets for the test matches and meet and great the players in return for carrying a few drinks about, I'd do it and I'm equally as immobile in the field and would make an equally good food taster.
Also I'm 2 years younger than Samit, surely England should be looking to the future!
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All I see Samit do is high five Stokes when he got 250 odd and despite being possible one of the least mobile sub fielders England can find he's had a trundle round fine leg for a few overs. I did wonder if he was the teams food taster, but given Broads dodgy tummy he hasn't done a great job of that either. Anyway, he's had a nice holiday :D
he ate all the good food, leaving everyone else the dodgy 2 day out of date stuff
That's where the team bug is coming from
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new article on BBC website for those interested Nick 'block it', 'yes my bat is made in Somerset you fool' Compdog praising the Captaincy of Ali Cook....
more interesting than it sounds as allegedly Cook did not want Compton in the Test side first time round as they 'clashed'. All gossip of course but looks like new England are full steam ahead, clean slate,friendly with the media, etc etc. Jesus they even had a meal out with Bob Willis last summer. Wonder if he has any funny stories... :)
How much credit does Bayliss take for the new attitude? lot's I reckon but Farbrace could be the main man day to day who influences the players the most....
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new article on BBC website for those interested Nick 'block it', 'yes my bat is made in Somerset you fool' Compdog praising the Captaincy of Ali Cook....
more interesting than it sounds as allegedly Cook did not want Compton in the Test side first time round as they 'clashed'. All gossip of course but looks like new England are full steam ahead, clean slate,friendly with the media, etc etc. Jesus they even had a meal out with Bob Willis last summer. Wonder if he has any funny stories... :)
How much credit does Bayliss take for the new attitude? lot's I reckon but Farbrace could be the main man day to day who influences the players the most....
Totally agree re the management side especially the influence Farbrace appears to be making also I wouldn't underestimate the affect that's been had on the dressing room after a certain batsman became unselectable a few years back.
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Farbrace was effectively in charge of the NZ series, when all of a sudden England started playing some decent cricket.
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new article on BBC website for those interested Nick 'block it', 'yes my bat is made in Somerset you fool' Compdog praising the Captaincy of Ali Cook....
more interesting than it sounds as allegedly Cook did not want Compton in the Test side first time round as they 'clashed'. All gossip of course but looks like new England are full steam ahead, clean slate,friendly with the media, etc etc. Jesus they even had a meal out with Bob Willis last summer. Wonder if he has any funny stories... :)
cough KEVIN PIETERSEN cough cough cough
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cough KEVIN PIETERSEN cough cough cough
You wanna see a doctor about that nasty cough pal.
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You wanna see a doctor about that nasty cough pal.
And the Tourette's .
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no footit selected.
Usual team with woakes replacing finn
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South Africa ringing the changes.
Cook(debut), Duminy, de Kock, Piedt and Abbott all in.
van Zyl, du Plessis, Vilas, Morris and Viljoen out.
Crazy amount of changes
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Jimmy v ABD is going to be interesting,clearly he was having a pop at Anderson. All in the game no problem there but we have won the series quite easily actually in the end so talk is cheap
:)
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Good start jimmy, whoops!
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South Africa ringing the changes.
Cook(debut), Duminy, de Kock, Piedt and Abbott all in.
van Zyl, du Plessis, Vilas, Morris and Viljoen out.
Crazy amount of changes
A team that doesnt have a clue who their best XI is, is a very desperate team, they've all done it
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Shows the difference in the thinking between the two teams. SA in disarray and thinking what can they do to try and manufacture some form of result.
And with England I doubt they would have changed the team had Finn been fit.
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Looks like enough in the track to interest the bowlers, come on then Jimmy and Stuart make use of it. They've had a nasty habit the past couple of years of wasting the new ball on the first day bowling too short, hopefully we don't see that today! Disappointed not to see Footit in balancing the attack, I like Woakes but he's not very different from Broad and Anderson.
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Because if his similarity to Broad and Anderson I think that's probably the main reason that they have chosen him over Footit
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Also footit disappointed in the warm up games, woakes didnt so much. I honestly think hes more of a batsman but there you go
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Why would you deliberately pick three bowlers because they're similar to each other?!
Woakes is definitely a safer selection and very justifiable over Footit, I'd just like to see variety in the attack. Footit did go round the park a bit in the warmups but by now you'd hope he was used to being around the England camp and associated pressure a bit more, and by all accounts he's been tearing through batsmen in the nets.
Bowling change please, not been a great start from Anderson.
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Taylor buys Ali's pies with a wicket.
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So from what i can gather after Woakes' first 7 balls he's been told to rough them up
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bbc saying that's the catch of the series by Taylor. not sure how it could possibly be better than the one off Finn in the last game!!
must be some catch.
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bbc saying that's the catch of the series by Taylor. not sure how it could possibly be better than the one off Finn in the last game!!
must be some catch.
Elgar went down the track, Taylor was actually running down alongside him and looking to get in the way, it stuck in there somewhere! Catch is maybe the wrong word as hes just managed to get it stuck in his legs but unbelievable commitment making a wicket out of nothing.
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With this performance we might have kids who are willing to field at short leg!
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So from what i can gather after Woakes' first 7 balls he's been told to rough them up
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Footitt should've been given a game. Woakes aunt roughing anyone up at medium fast
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With this performance we might have kids who are willing to field at short leg!
Done it before for a minor counties bowler, never again. Who ever these kids may be they have bigger "ones" than I!
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bbc saying that's the catch of the series by Taylor. not sure how it could possibly be better than the one off Finn in the last game!!
must be some catch.
It's pretty special
http://twitter.com/cricingif/status/690469055246012416/photo/1
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Cant believe its taken 11,000 FC runs for cook to get a debut, already looks a better player than some recent SA openers!
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Broad's now in the ODI squad...
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Will be to cover the plunkett injury id guess?
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No mention of Amla drop?
Cracking ball from stokes but cook shelling it. Was low but carried, bairstow dove across so could have put him off. How costly will that be?.
Also Stephen cook looking worthy of his place, shocking they've struggled for so long with him waiting.
Hoping he's not a "here have a go but as soon as you fail once your out" type of pick. He deserves a run.
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Amla averages 85 at this ground so could be massive drop
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The number of catches dropped off Stokes in the slips is mad, he'd have an extra 10-15 wickets at least if they held everything off him.
Cook looks a decent player, England have bowled poorly I'm afraid.
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Stephen Cook actually plays like an opener. He watches the ball. Knows where his off stump is. Incredible it took so long for him to get a game
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is he Jimmy Cook's son? played for Somerset back in the 80's an overseas player and scored absolute buckets season after season
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No mention of Amla drop?
Cracking ball from stokes but cook shelling it. Was low but carried, bairstow dove across so could have put him off. How costly will that be?.
/quote]
Bairstow got a glove on it so can't really blame Cook for that one.
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Footitt should've been given a game. Woakes aunt roughing anyone up at medium fast
Didn't know Woakes' aunt was over there, she sounds like a formidable prospect
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Why pick Woakes, it makes absolutely no sense no matter how they try justify it. We know what he can do, which to be honest is nothing special. Like for Like suggests Footitt for Finn, that coupled with the fact we have won the series and haven't ever seen Footitt perform at test level. it's an absolute no brainer, I can't imagine too many other countries making such a poor decision, only England. Woakes clearly another of the selectors and Cook's favourite #boysclub
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Why pick Woakes, it makes absolutely no sense no matter how they try justify it. We know what he can do, which to be honest is nothing special. Like for Like suggests Footitt for Finn, that coupled with the fact we have won the series and haven't ever seen Footitt perform at test level. it's an absolute no brainer, I can't imagine too many other countries making such a poor decision, only England. Woakes clearly another of the selectors and Cook's favourite #boysclub
I would of picked Footitt as well, but we are not selectors and yes we(England) certainly do pick conservatively, it seems ingrained sometimes...but let's not forget we are 2 nil up in a series we were not expected to win and if it really honestly was a boys club now there's no way Compton would be at number 3, it would still be Ian Bell.....
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Bairstow clangs another one. Poor technique
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People out there still think YJB is better than Buttler with the gloves? That's two poor attempts out of two, shouldn't be dropping catches stood back. He's got the no7 batting slot sorted nicely, but his keeping has been poor throughout this series.
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50 on debut for Stephen Cook...where was he in the first three Tests
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Woakes is shocking. Buffet bowler
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England looking for unthreathening with the ball today, agree with questions over Woakes - i personally wouldnt have picked him but he does seem to be "the next cab off the rank" which we tend to stick to. I still think Woakes is a btter choice than Jordan however
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cook looks a right batter
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our pro from last year plays with im and is good mates with him. says he is the 'ultimate professional' maybe in a hussey or cowan mould in preparation etc.
looks very organised. shouldve got his chance 4-5 years ago by most accounts
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This wicket as dead as it lucks?
Or like the ashes, we jut not bothered turning up now the series is sealed?
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This wicket as dead as it lucks?
Or like the ashes, we jut not bothered turning up now the series is sealed?
Did a bit with the new ball so there's something there, not looking too difficult v medium pace now that shine has gone though.
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Poor bowling
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Cook must have p*ssed someone off in the last 5/10 years? has he been in any sort of trouble?
Or is he just a late bloomer?
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England missing Finn. He Bowls an awkward length at good pace.
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Proper edge from Amla.
Drops about 8inhces short to cook? Who is about 4 feet deeper than stokes is as at 2 be slip.
Broad heard on the stump Mic "you are joking!"
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I can't really tell from these two pics, they are the best I could find.
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/Liam_Mulholland/506205696_zpsefparf5u.jpg) (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/Liam_Mulholland/media/506205696_zpsefparf5u.jpg.html)
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/Liam_Mulholland/506205698_zps7gh8td4i.jpg) (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/Liam_Mulholland/media/506205698_zps7gh8td4i.jpg.html)
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Cook must have p*ssed someone off in the last 5/10 years? has he been in any sort of trouble?
Or is he just a late bloomer?
TBH when South Africa where the number #1 side Smith and Petersen where probably the best combo in world cricket.
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STOKESY
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Thank feck for Ben Stokes.
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TBH when South Africa where the number #1 side Smith and Petersen where probably the best combo in world cricket.
I don't disgree, but why wasn't he first in line to the throne when Peterson retired?
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Reckon Cooks GM has 'Pro limited edition' on the stickers. Seen a few of those on sponsored players bats
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Reckon Cooks GM has 'Pro limited edition' on the stickers. Seen a few of those on sponsored players bats
Yeah the three letters are definitely PRO
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Stephen cook! In his 30 and overlooked for a while but proving that ageism shouldn't exist in cricket.
Same as Chris rodgers in some ways. And also voges(who is currently in the top ten rankings.
So got to ask. Do we have an elder statesman in the England game to open with cook?
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BROADY!
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Also de villiers duck.
A lot of chat from him before the game, add to that bumble mocking him just before for only playing 8 tests in 2015 yet crying he's over worked. Lol
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Yeah AB talk nah! Game on, maybe.
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Yeah AB talk nah! Game on, maybe.
hahahahahahhahah that's funny
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good effort from Devilliers 'finding holes in their bowling attack' Big hole he found.
A Hole maybe
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I don't disgree, but why wasn't he first in line to the throne when Peterson retired?
No idea mate. They seemed to try a collection of middle order batsmen at the top of the innings. Bizarre
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Pretty AB was gunning for Anderson...and Anderson failed to show much thus far anyway
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What a moment for Stephen Cook. Hundred on debut. 100th batsman to do so on debut.
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Village from Duminy, how does he keep getting selected? i bet he was that kid growing up who got selected for representative sides for having a fit mum or helped pick up all the cones and bibs
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Village from Duminy, how does he keep getting selected? i bet he was that kid growing up who got selected for representative sides for having a fit mum or helped pick up all the cones and bibs
Hahahaha nearly spat my drink all over my desk!! Well played :D
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I guess Duminy was selected on this occasion as du Plessis isn't exactly offering much more. And Duminy can lolly pop down a few offies
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Anderson getting his handed to him...
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Well, we didn't exactly keep the pressure on there then!!! Should've kept the old ball :)
Need to have a plan B when this starts happening!
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5/329 South Africa ahead at the moment. If Bavuma and de Kock get them up to 400-450 they'll probably be happy. England probably a wicket away from getting out for 350-375. Important first session tomorrow
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5/329 South Africa ahead at the moment. If Bavuma and de Kock get them up to 400-450 they'll probably be happy. England probably a wicket away from getting out for 350-375. Important first session tomorrow
Agreed, looks a long tail without Morris bowling.
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No idea mate. They seemed to try a collection of middle order batsmen at the top of the innings. Bizarre
Seems standard practice now, let's try some middle order guys before giving proper openers a chance because, you know, they are slow
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Village from Duminy, how does he keep getting selected? i bet he was that kid growing up who got selected for representative sides for having a fit mum or helped pick up all the cones and bibs
You probably know the reason he keeps getting picked and the real reason he's picked in this test ahead of faf.. Probably got nothing to do with fit mum, rich dad...........
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I wonder who's gonna get the brunt of Bobs abuse tonight? Bairstow, Woakes, Anderson?
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Bet its bairstow because Bob hates all fielders!
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Great knock by cook. His old man was mustard when I first started watching county cricket. Wielded a PS Corniche with style.
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Just finished watching.
SA should be looking at 500 min on that road, I know you should never judge a track until both teams have batted but it looked as flat as witches bits.
S Cook looked a class act, SA selectors should be ashamed of their oversight.
YJB should've bagged a couple of easy chances, very poor footwork.
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Just finished watching.
SA should be looking at 500 min on that road, I know you should never judge a track until both teams have batted but it looked as flat as witches bits.
S Cook looked a class act, SA selectors should be ashamed of their oversight.
YJB should've bagged a couple of easy chances, very poor footwork.
SA don't have much batting after Bavuma and de Kock, so 500 is pretty optimistic, 400-450 could be feasible if these can build a partnership. I'm favouring 370 all out TBH
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SA don't have much batting after Bavuma and de Kock, so 500 is pretty optimistic, 400-450 could be feasible if these can build a partnership. I'm favouring 370 all out TBH
Sorry my bad, it was meant as more of a reference as to what they should've expected to get with regards to how good the wicket was.
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That Amla innings was something! His drives were just magnificent!
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3rd catch now gone between bairstow and cook!
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For how good england where in the ashes, their catching has been on the steady decline since!
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For me, de Kock stands out this morning.
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For how good england where in the ashes, their catching has been on the steady decline since!
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Dead rubber, none of them look interested. Only players with anything to play for are hales and woakes
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Woakes could potentially rule himself out of the running as a test bowler here.
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Dead rubber, none of them look interested. Only players with anything to play for are hales and woakes
I'd add Compton, Taylor and Bairstow(keeping wise) to that list.
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My eyes are starting to hurt
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De Kok standing proud! :)
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You just know England will make this pitch look like a minefield when they bat
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De kock teeing off now! This lad can bat. Owed his team a performance after cocking it up last match
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I'd add Compton, Taylor and Bairstow(keeping wise) to that list.
Nah.
The team NEEDS a Compton like player and he appears the only one like it around
Taylor is catching everything at shirt Taylor so he'll be fine
Barstow has batted well, kept ok but has to keep improving like jos 'the slogger' buttler did. Do you really think jos is a good enough keeper to put up,with his batting !? Might as well play a specialist keepe in read/foster before buttler. The guy is a rabbit st test level
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De kock teeing off now! This lad can bat. Owed his team a performance after cocking it up last match
He's not good enough for top 6 before you start saying he should open
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He's not good enough for top 6 before you start saying he should open
de Kock's 23 years old and he's had a pretty good start to his career. 1 Test hundred and 8 ODI hundreds. Perhaps in the future he might bat at 5/6 in the Test side. But I can't really see South Africa having their keeper opening. He'd be spent if they where in the field for 150/200 overs.
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de Kock's 23 years old and he's had a pretty good start to his career. 1 Test hundred and 8 ODI hundreds. Perhaps in the future he might bat at 5/6 in the Test side. But I can't really see South Africa having their keeper opening. He'd be spent if they where in the field for 150/200 overs.
You could open him in aus on flat decks but as Vaughan said, new nut with it swinging or seaming and he's a walking wicket
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Right lads, we're having a bat
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Im backing hales hugely here!
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this is going to be painful, root, Compton and bairstow will make it respectable and cover massive cracks... I hope I'm proven wrong though, really want hales to get some runs!
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Cmon Halesy and Compo - it's a flat deck, get yourselves in, bed down and churn out the runs.
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Blimey. Took the kids to their swimming lesson at about 370-8. Get back in to see the 9th wicket go down at 470. First thought: Wow, De Kock's gone big here! (fnar, fnar)
Lot's of people criticising England's performance in dead rubbers. Hopefully they'll stand up and be counted here and grind out a 500ish score
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Well, he's playing like he should do
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Hales is gunning for it!
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FFS
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Another failure for hales on a flat pitch
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Cheap wicket
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OH FUDGE!
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Is the Hales experiment over now?
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Ah nuts.
That was pretty poor
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I dont think it should be over if im honest, give him a couple of tests at home
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This is all rather expansive from Compton
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Is the Hales experiment over now?
It should never had started imo, painful to watch, feel bad for him but it should be done and dusted now.
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Well that kept low!
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Sigh
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From stump cam you can see how low that kept.
You could also see that Compton wears his pads on the wrong leg! ;)
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From stump cam you can see how lore that kept.
You could also see that Compton wears his pads on the wrong leg! ;)
Trust you to notice that Cam.
Should he have been jumping back and squaring up to that length?, I know the ball kept very low but it's not like the pitch has been overly bouncy to make him want to play on the back foot.
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Roots going to get himself pinned if he's not careful with his back foot tendencies, get forward!!!!!!
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I dont think it should be over if im honest, give him a couple of tests at home
Well if they do it shouldn't be opening
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If Captain Cook gets a ton here, would it be the first time an opener with the same surname has got a hundred for each side in the first innings of a test match?
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If Captain Cook gets a ton here, would it be the first time an opener with the same surname has got a hundred for each side in the first innings of a test match?
Youd imagine so but cricket does throw up some strange stats every now and again!
Cook needs 117 to get to 10k runs I believe
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Hasn't the West Indian Devon smith got a 100 in South Africa but not sure if Graeme Smith also got one
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Hasn't the West Indian Devon smith got a 100 in South Africa but not sure if Graeme Smith also got one
I thought it was Dwayne Smith
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Root has damaged his bat, doesn't look happy. Might tweet him and offer to take it off his hands
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Root has damaged his bat, doesn't look happy. Might tweet him and offer to take it off his hands
The South A's using those Sports Direct bat breakers again. Grrrr
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Cook and Root showing their class this evening, really hope Cook goes past 10,000 tomorrow!
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Quinton De Kock looked very impressive! Great talent.
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QDK and SA's cook both were impressive. Wondering why these guys weren't part of Indian tour !!
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This Root chap is bloody good
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Root out for 76, here comes stoke
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What! The whole place?
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Young Rabada snares his 4th, Taylor with a shocking shot.
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As horrendous a shot as you could wish to see from Taylor there.
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That innings was pretty poor from Taylor. Lots of swipes etc. Not a test innings imo
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Another start Root has failed to convert.
If he converted even half these starts he'd be halfway to most test centuries for England already!
And as I type that Titch is dismissed, caught behind off a short ball. England appear to be in a spot of bother now at 221-5, having lost 3-34
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Kill me now
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5fer Rabada. Duck for Bairstow
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20 year old kid showing all the old timers how to bowl to be fair to him. Working the channel building pressure then the occasional change up
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How are SA going to get steyn and philander back in now as can't drop rabada
Maybe use Elgar as the spinner?
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Ron Weasley caught behind for none trying to leave one.
England have lost 4-34 now and are in danger of having to follow on.
And the commentator has something else on his mind
"Chris Woakes can handle the willy... Willow I should say."
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Taylor doesn't have the technical ability for Test cricket. Too many moving parts and too many wild shots.
Bairstow, his wicketkeeping is poor, should bat at 5 with a proper keeper 7.
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Hmmmmmmmm, looks like we may be paying the price for an insipid bowling performance and conservative selection of our attack.
Rabada is young, quick, erratic, occasionally expensive - but he takes wickets. We have one of those sitting on the bench.
I hope this text series doesn't end like a wet fart for us.
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I was reading somewhere online that Rabada should be dropped because he's too expensive...well he takes wickets. His economy will improve as he gets more experienced. And when he bowls with Steyn and Philander. At 20 years old he's probably the best prospect(fast bowler) in world cricket.
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If anyone gets dropped i think XI would be
Cook
Hales/Lees/Milan
Ansari
Root
Stokes
Taylor
Bairstow
Ali
Broad/Wood (if Finn not fit)
Anderson / Broad (if wood plays)
Finn
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Amusingly seen a few tweets calling for people's heads.
Bairstow being one of the because he's "not getting runs to cover his poor glove work"
Err he's failed once and still averages 87 in this series??? We're do this people come from!!
Hales, and Taylor are the two most at risk(Bairstow to five and pick a specialist keeper?? Don't see point in buttler coming back in till he's shown red ball form)
Compton got a nice 85 early in but has he done much since? Bell could aim for a 1000 runs in first month and reclaim his place.......
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Good to see the youngster rabada do well. Interesting to hear that he wants to play county cricket yet all the counties have filled their overseas. Think a few of them might be making some room.
Let's see if he's still up for county cricket once he becomes an IPL millionaire. Great attitude from the kid so far, let's hope the money doesn't spoil it
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Hales, and Taylor are the two most at risk(Bairstow to five and pick a specialist keeper?? Don't see point in buttler coming back in till he's shown red ball form)
There arent any real alternatives than these two for the gloves (sadly)
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Amusingly seen a few tweets calling for people's heads.
Bairstow being one of the because he's "not getting runs to cover his poor glove work"
Err he's failed once and still averages 87 in this series??? We're do this people come from!!
Hales, and Taylor are the two most at risk(Bairstow to five and pick a specialist keeper?? Don't see point in buttler coming back in till he's shown red ball form)
Compton got a nice 85 early in but has he done much since? Bell could aim for a 1000 runs in first month and reclaim his place.......
I honestly dont think butlers glove work is much better than bairstows if at all. Have people forgotton Ansari? Seeing as he was just injured to lose his place shouldnt he deserve a shot now?
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There arent any real alternatives than these two for the gloves (sadly)
There must be an English keeper who's a decent out and out gloveman.
The batting is arguably strong enough that as long as they know which end of the bat to hold you could get them into the side? You could argue a decent gloveman would save youa few runs anyway so it would balance itself out.
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I honestly dont think butlers glove work is much better than bairstows if at all. Have people forgotton Ansari? Seeing as he was just injured to lose his place shouldnt he deserve a shot now?
Ansari seemed a stop gap selection for me to get an extra spinner who could bat into the squad really.
Presume he's still injured as well given hes isnt touring with the lions.
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I honestly dont think butlers glove work is much better than bairstows if at all. Have people forgotton Ansari? Seeing as he was just injured to lose his place shouldnt he deserve a shot now?
This! In my opinion Bairstow is the better keeper of the two, and without doubt is the better red ball batsman too.
Jos Butler will be a white ball superstar, but I don't see him as a teat match player right now. If he wants his place back I think he needs a good season of championship cricket to develop his glovework and red ball cricket in general. If he isn't going to play in the teat side in the English summer, let him get some cricket under his belt. That would be more beneficial than having him carry the drinks
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Taylor's shot selection was shocking, he wafted at three head high balls that were at least a foot outside off trying to pull them!!!, wtf, either leave alone or cut them surely, it would only take a half decent connection to clear the cordon if he's going to play that delivery at all.
Root caught behind in over 60% of his dismissals, for me his right arm is tucked in too tight to his hip, he needs to amend this, both forearms should be pointing back at the bowler to correct any loop in his back swing, just my 2p.
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Taylor's had a shocker. The other wickets to fall this morning were all decent deliveries. Definitely looking like a good toss to win. Looking harder and harder to bat on that surface. Unless there are more Stokes heroics I can't see England getting anything from this match.
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Rain, possibly our only savior.
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There must be an English keeper who's a decent out and out gloveman.
The batting is arguably strong enough that as long as they know which end of the bat to hold you could get them into the side? You could argue a decent gloveman would save youa few runs anyway so it would balance itself out.
*Ahem* Chris Read *Ahem*
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Rabada cleaning house
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Stokesy's getting pumped up now lads
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Stokesy's getting pumped up now lads
Grrrrrrr
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What gloves is Chris Woakes wearing?
They look like Oblivion E41 whiteouts, but I didn't think that was a range any more.
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Woakes gives it away. South Africa were down to 3 bowlers, rabada and morkel tired. Was a great opportunity to get some easy runs in test cricket. Won't get a better chance
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Woakes gives it away. South Africa were down to 3 bowlers, rabada and morkel tired. Was a great opportunity to get some easy runs in test cricket. Won't get a better chance
He has no future at Test level. He's average with bat and ball.
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He has no future at Test level. He's average with bat and ball.
Agreed. Just shows that Test match is a much more mental/attitude driven game than First Class, his FC record is as good if not better than Stokes with both bat and ball but Woakes isn't fit to lace Stokes' boots at test level. I think Woakes could be a decent white ball player though.
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Batted Mo
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It's same old same old "but he can bat a bit, gives us a sharp tail"
I don't really care, Finn when playing brings you something, balls wicket taking balls, gets good batsmen jumping about"
Woakes has just bowled buffet up and down, who cares he cracks a decent pace occasionally, it's not troubling test level batsmen.
Fifty for Ali. Time to tee off!!
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Didn't think rabada was gonna make it up the stairs. Well bowled lad. Well bowled.
South Africa 133 ahead. 30 odd overs left tonight.
If our bowlers turn up it could be an interesting chAse. Or we could just be batted out the game and have to survive 4 sessions??
Money on the later being a dead rubber
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JIMMY
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Amla dropped off Jimmy!!
Elgar wasn't just squared up there he was spun 360 degrees!! He needs to work on that.
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Anyone just see those black and orange NB duffles?
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No? Ive seen a red one before though
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Amla gets hit on the thumb and Compton takes the opportunity to check out his bat
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No? Ive seen a red one before though
Up in the pavilion, De Villiers was sitting next to two of them
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He has no future at Test level. He's average with bat and ball.
never understood why he gets in the team
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How smoking hot is viljoens missus!!!!!
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How smoking hot is viljoens missus!!!!!
Solid 9/10 and he can get her to sit and watch the cricket, she's basically perfect!
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JIMMMMMMMMMY
A pair for AB, lovely
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That's one way to lower your workload.
Get 3 ducks in a row. Bye bye abv
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Decent start from England this! On the charge, keep it up Jimmy
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Wonder if AB still thinks Jimmy's lost his nip :D
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Devilliers exploiting englands weaknessnes really well in this test
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Just wonder if losing a couple quickly could put the wobbles in the team after the last test and India too
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Surely South Africa need to start showing some intent. So far ahead in the game yet going at 2.6 rpo. With Abbott potentially injured you would have thought they would need as many overs as possible.
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Abbott will bowl I heard.
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Saffers happy to play for the draw then
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Don't think smith would have done this, would have told them to get on with it earlier and declare. Not waiting around till Bavuma gets a 100
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Whatever the result of this match it beggars belief there is no declaration
How are SA going to get out of a slump without trying to win the match?
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I keep thinking that England should switch Stokes and Compton in the batting order and then see if they can get close (assuming SA declare soonish/overnight)
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I keep thinking that England should switch Stokes and Compton in the batting order and then see if they can get close (assuming SA declare soonish/overnight)
Pressure to score runs, new ball, fresh bowlers, I'm not sure Stokes could do what he normally does under these circumstances. He said himself that during his record breaking innings that he felt no pressure if he had gotten out early as the team was in a good position at that point, thus meaning he could play with a clear mind and confidence to just go out and hit the ball. England would never change the batting order for this test match, a draw is the only thing on their mind.
Finally Hales is just as destructive when it comes to ODI batting, he could do just as good a job. Compton or Cook would simply need to rotate the strike to give Hales the majority of the balls.
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Pressure to score runs, new ball, fresh bowlers, I'm not sure Stokes could do what he normally does under these circumstances. He said himself that during his record breaking innings that he felt no pressure if he had gotten out early as the team was in a good position at that point, thus meaning he could play with a clear mind and confidence to just go out and hit the ball. England would never change the batting order for this test match, a draw is the only thing on their mind.
Finally Hales is just as destructive when it comes to ODI batting, he could do just as good a job. Compton or Cook would simply need to rotate the strike to give Hales the majority of the balls.
Agree, they should just tell Hales he has a free pass and to go out and see if he can give them half a chance of winning the game.
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Declaration klaxon! 382 to win. Perfect opportunity for Hales to play his natural game.
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His natural game being to drive loosely outside off until he nicks one, yeah?
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Oh dear. Wonder who will be opening in the next series.
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Hales Currently...
(https://salehinmitul.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/fish-out-of-water.jpg)
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(http://www.smh.com.au/content/dam/images/g/i/t/i/u/n/image.related.articleLeadNarrow.300x0.gitiuy.png/1438868708572.jpg)
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England in trouble.
South Africa bluffed them with the injury. And already putting it in the right places for the pitch to help.
England did not plus was a bowler down. They might as well picked trot ot bowl than woakes in this game.
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Compton gone now too :/
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SS must be making some cracking new handles for Compton to not think he'd nicked that.
All out tonight here England.
Bell and lyth back for the summer??
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Bell and lyth back for the summer??
*Ballance and Lyth
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SS must be making some cracking new handles for Compton to not think he'd nicked that.
All out tonight here England.
Bell and lyth back for the summer??
to be fair, and I've loved watching Bell for the last 10 years, he was never a man for a crisis. Lyth......i'd of given him the UAE series to try to settle down and get some scores.I can't for the life of me understand why Ali would open there if he's not going to open in SA....
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SS must be making some cracking new handles for Compton to not think he'd nicked that.
All out tonight here England.
Bell and lyth back for the summer??
Thats got to be one of the dumbest reviews...ever
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I'm remaining foolishly optimistic and saying Root and Taylor to get tons and us to romp home some time tomorrow afternoon :D
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Give hales and Compton the first home series of the summer unfair not to, on the proviso they learn from their mistakes.
Hales needs to stop nicking off, not a good look for an opener. Compton, to me, just seems too intense, he's got worse as the series goes on. Head's muddled...
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Definitely, easy for people to forget how well Compton batted in the first test, just seems to have lost his way a little since. He's a serious asset to the side at 3 when in full bloody-minded wear the bowlers down mode. Don't think Bayliss' comments about wanting a dynamic no3 helped!
Both need sitting down and reminding why they're in the team and that they should go out and give their own jobs their best shot - Compton is there to be the rock that sets the innings up at 3 and it seems like he could do with reminding of that. Hales looked at his most comfortable when playing more naturally in the first dig this test, most of his dismissals seem to have been from him getting bogged down worrying or not committing to shots. Sit him down with the management and tell him he's not selected to prod, they're backing him to go out and get us off to a good start, play your natural shots please. Hopefully he will in the summer and then we can judge him properly as a test player, don't think he's giving a good account of himself atm.
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Give hales and Compton the first home series of the summer unfair not to, on the proviso they learn from their mistakes.
Hales needs to stop nicking off, not a good look for an opener. Compton, to me, just seems too intense, he's got worse as the series goes on. Head's muddled...
Why are so many people in love with Hales...he's terrific in t20s, but look at his first class average! Just not good.
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Hales (or Lyth) is a tough one - because whoever gets the Sri Lanka series is likely to do pretty well due to their attack being pretty much awful. I don't think any amount of runs against them will really tell anyone a whole lot about a player, save their ability to bat selfish.
I wouldn't have dropped Lyth. I think he's proved already that he is a quality player - that hundred against NZ at Headingley did it. But the same logic as should have applied then - i.e. give him a few more games - applies as well to Hales now.
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Why are so many people in love with Hales...he's terrific in t20s, but look at his first class average! Just not good.
First class average of last two years is 50+
Definitely not good enough!
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I agree lyth should never have been dropped, but id also wager that most of the people who are saying hales out are also the ones who were claiming he was a world beater and shouting for him to play in the uae.. England fans seem to love to hate the incumbent opener and claim to be better than the selectors, yes they have made mistakes but hales needs time its what we all ask for at the minute with our openers, hales didn't start well in odi's now wed all pick him without a doubt, he is the sort of player who needs a run to play ta his best like he does in a notts shirt, we as fans cant have it all ways, just need to support which 11 is on the field!!
right rant over!!
sorry
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Hales has now shown he doesn't have the technique to open in test matches
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Compton to open, Root 3 and bring back KP at 4. Seems logical to me :D
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First class average of last two years is 50+
Definitely not good enough!
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If that's the case then he deserved a shot (unless other openers were scoring better in the same period).
But his overall first class record (38 avg) is nowhere near good enough for Test cricket. Only Pakistan throws in people to open with that kind of average, and look how well that works
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If that's the case then he deserved a shot (unless other openers were scoring better in the same period).
But his overall first class record (38 avg) is nowhere near good enough for Test cricket. Only Pakistan throws in people to open with that kind of average, and look how well that works
Urrrmmm.... Michael Vaughan & Marcus Trescothick?
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If memory serves I don't think Trescothick had that great a 1st class average when selected, plenty of players who have a better test than county average too. That said I predicted before the series the Hales and fails would be a common theme, you can't play as loose as that and expect to be successful as a test match opener. There is a nothing particularly wrong with being a positive opener but you need the ability to back it up. Hayden had it, Warner has it, Hales doesn't.
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I keep thinking that England should switch Stokes and Compton in the batting order and then see if they can get close (assuming SA declare soonish/overnight)
Wtf!! That's crazy talk..
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Never declared my love for Hales, I think the jury's out and I'm not convinced he's got the game to open in tests but he deserves more than one series, as anybody does. One reason why I feel carberry was so harshly treated. We are too hung up on age.
What I dont get is the logic that Compton and cook can't open because we need to kick on, yet it's likely that they end up batting together anyway!
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Hales was an experiment I so what to happen, and I so wanted it to work. In fact if he gets an extended run I still hope it does.
But he is not working currently in South Africa. And he can't have many more chances left.
Personally giving a player like hales his opportunity against South Africa in South Africa was always gonna end in failure, even more so had steyn and philander been fit.
He should have had uae to get his mind going and used to it.
But then had carbs still been in the side, or lyth given uae and then South Africa. We well could have a very established opener.
You both have to give these guys a decent chance(which isn't happening) but also no when to give up and move on.
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Compton to open, Root 3 and bring back KP at 4. Seems logical to me :D
Leave root alone, he's doing well at 4 so leave him there. It's interesting the people now saying they didn't back hales.. He was going to be the saviour a few weeks ago. Guys a slogger, never shown anything other than that. Go back to white ball cricket biff runs, be a star in that and enjoy a career but leave proper cricket alone
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Hale's might come again or develop this summer. Not sure why we have openers who snick off all the time. Lyth and Hale's are justed different handed versions of each other.
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Wtf!! That's crazy talk..
@ProCricketer1982 is that crazy talk as in you think I'm crazy, or crazy talk as in "don't be daft, this conservative England set up would never dare be so dynamic" ?
350ish in just short of 4 sessions is do-able (admittedly, slim chance on this wearing pitch). With the series already done, why not show a statement if intent and try and win it. If Stokes bats 3 and comes off, then he'll do it quickly and maybe get us in a position to win.
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Where do people think we should look or how do we look for our test players??
Everyone seems to think hales was selected as a white ball biffer.
Yet
First call record
2014 1032 runs at 49avg.(from 22 innings)
2015 1021 runs at 51 avg.(from 20 innings)
Yet Compton. Who is a red ball test player that should have been in the side and never dropped.
First class
2014 1034 runs at an average of 43.(from 27 innings)
2015 1132 runs at an average of 38.(from 30 innings)
Over the last two years hales red ball statistics are much better than Compromis, yet he is the biffer that shouldn't be near a red ball and Compton is our saviour?
It turns out to be true for hales atleast at test level, but he earnt his shot, if we had ignored him over and over again would we not be in the same position as South Africa and Stephen cook??
A guy who was first selected well into his 30s because when he was in his early twenties he was seen as a white ball player, and for the last ten years they just ignored his stats.
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How many of those red ball runs to Hales score as an opener though?
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How many of those red ball runs to Hales score as an opener though?
No idea don't have the means to split that. Some were at six(beginning of 2014 as he was coming back from an average of about 7 in 2013) some were opening but I believe most were at 3.
Same for Compton though, some games he opened and others he was at 3.
Maybe a call to swap them round for England??
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i believe hales opened in 2015 but not 100 per cent on that
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Doesn't Jason Roy average about 67 opening in the championship, by the logic on here he should get a go...
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Doesn't Jason Roy average about 67 opening in the championship, by the logic on here he should get a go...
Again, stats are proving to be a useless thing to look at to find a test opener. So where and how do we look?
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simple stick with hales for now he always improves with time that has been shown in his notts career minus 2013 and his t20i and odi career
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Is steve cook too old to emigrate to Eng and join the team? ;)
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Hales (or Lyth) is a tough one - because whoever gets the Sri Lanka series is likely to do pretty well due to their attack being pretty much awful. I don't think any amount of runs against them will really tell anyone a whole lot about a player, save their ability to bat selfish.
I wouldn't have dropped Lyth. I think he's proved already that he is a quality player - that hundred against NZ at Headingley did it. But the same logic as should have applied then - i.e. give him a few more games - applies as well to Hales now.
Same 'awful' Sri Lankan attack that won them their last series in England just 2 years ago?
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How many of those red ball runs to Hales score as an opener though?
He scored quite a few I believe Opening for Notts but that's an indictment on the lvcc more than hales. Hales on runs once England ditched Lyth had to give him a go. You guys know I can't stand his type of player in test cricket but e lad deserved to open in the uae, South Africa and a home series. We can't just churn through guys like we have. Personally I'd give him e home summer and see what happens (caveat is it's not just about runs, but also 'how' he looks technically)
If he fails then you have to either keep rewarding runs or, or, back to making an assessment on techniques and back that. Either way, I'm trying to be unbiased (which although you guys won't agree I try to be when picking players) and hales while not my choice has earned according to selection rules the right to have a run. Think of he pressure the poor lads under, it must affect him (and Compton/Taylor)
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simple stick with hales for now he always improves with time that has been shown in his notts career minus 2013 and his t20i and odi career
White ball runs are a terrible way to assess suitability to test matches.
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I cannot for the life of me understand why carberry was discarded like that. A proper opener who looked at home in the test arena.
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Iirc Hales got most of his runs early last season while batting at 3, Mullaney and Taylor were opening for Notts.
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I cannot for the life of me understand why carberry was discarded like that. A proper opener who looked at home in the test arena.
Ask the ECB if they can fly your mum out for Christmas and you'll be shunned.
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Well.......what the hell happened this morning?
Brainless batting as old Geoffrey would say but it was kinda funny to see Bairstow get a reprieve only to be dismissed the very next ball
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Good end to the series for the Proteas! A few encouraging performances most notably Rabada and Amla's return to form. Still so disappointing losing a home series.
England played well and controlled the series. Ben Stokes can do some damage! Well deserved man of the series!
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Not sure the toss did us and favours but by all accounts we batted like a demob happy team. Wouldn't be surprised if half the team are on the golf course by now.
Fair play to SA, controlled this test from day 1.
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Well.......what the hell happened this morning?
Brainless batting as old Geoffrey would say but it was kinda funny to see Bairstow get a reprieve only to be dismissed the very next ball
Looked like "Cant be arsed lets get home " innings to me
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Looked like "Cant be arsed lets get home " innings to me
As @uknsaunders said I bet they were all thinking about sinking a birdie on the first hole!
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sounds like we were rubbish and didn't try.....
i'm glad we lost actually....coming home thinking we are the dog's do dah's wont do us any good in the long term
still some problems in the team that need sorting. I would think 2 or 3 players would be keen to get a good start in the championship prior to the sri lanka series.
it's been done to death on these boards but the opening position is still a problem.
one thing that has been sorted thou is the keeping position
anyone disagree?
:)
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Last day of term none of this test stuff until May waheyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
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Here we go:-
Cook
*********
*********
Root
*********
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Broad
***********
Anderson
Apart from not having a top order, a number 5 and a fit 3 seamer we are in great shape. Oh and if we could catch it would help.
Harsh on Compton/Taylor - maybe but they have to score consistently, but they'll probably get another go at least. Hales might or might come again. When is Wood fit again?
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At least AB bagged a pair, that will teach him to open his gob and wind up the oppo bowlers.
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Here we go:-
Cook
*********
*********
Root
*********
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Broad
***********
Anderson
Apart from not having a top order, a number 5 and a fit 3 seamer we are in great shape. Oh and if we could catch it would help.
Harsh on Compton/Taylor - maybe but they have to score consistently, but they'll probably get another go at least. Hales might or might come again. When is Wood fit again?
If Finn is fit surely he's gone ahead of Wood with his performances this tour?
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If Finn is fit surely he's gone ahead of Wood with his performances this tour?
If fit yes, though I think Wood offers more on flat decks. Next Simon Jones (with an injury record to match).
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Finn back to form has been great
Wood, yep whoever said he wont last will be right. His action is built to last about 5 mins
enjoy it while it lasts thou...a bit like Simon Jones, when it was good it was no swearing please fantastic. :)
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Taylor has more "looked the part" than Hales in my opinion (I'd love Hales to work out though) although Taylor hasn't had the best series he looks up to Test cricket in my opinion, I think Hales is lacking in confidence and looks to be lacking a bit of fire in his belly, Taylor reminds me of Ballance in certain ways (who I also like) in that their techniques aren't perfect but they have that bit extra mentally over some others. The good thing is we have some very promising middle order players knocking about in lads like James Vince and the likes of Ballance who will be pushing to get their place back, I think English cricket is in a decent place and heading in the right direction, just a little more consistency needed, on their day this team could beat any other test team in the world.
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If I were Strauss and the ECB are considering changes for the 2016 summer, I'd be going public along the lines of this;
There are places up for grabs (subtext; 2,3,5). There are 4 county championship games before selection for the first Sri Lanka test and we'll be at grounds assessing players and looking at their form on bowler-friendly early season English pitches. Get a hundred in the first game? Great, go get more - show consistent form and you're in with a shout.
I do think you give Hales and Compton a chance in the SL series, if only to be fair to them. One thing is certain, either the communication to these players whilst they're with the squad is not allowing them to play their natural games, or the players simply aren't good enough. It was only recently that players like Strauss, Bell, KP, Cook, Prior, Trott were coming in as debutants and scoring lots of runs from the off. But then maybe they were a class above the players we have now?
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Here we go:-
Cook
*********
*********
Root
*********
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Broad
***********
Anderson
Apart from not having a top order, a number 5 and a fit 3 seamer we are in great shape. Oh and if we could catch it would help.
Harsh on Compton/Taylor - maybe but they have to score consistently, but they'll probably get another go at least. Hales might or might come again. When is Wood fit again?
Definitey harsh on Compton, averaged 30, admittedly would have been ideal to convert a couple of the starts, but then again so could Cook.
Faced the most balls by an England player on the tour and essentially in my book, thats what he's there to do. Provide stability for the top/middle order.
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Bairstow should probably bat at 5 and England should find a proper keeper to bat at 7/8. Ali hasn't done anything to justify a long term future either. Ballance probably should find a spot back in the line up.
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Youngster Rabada breaking records like nobodies business. At the tender age of 20, he joined Waqar Younis, by taking 3 6fers in international cricket.
I guess by the time South Africa next play Test cricket they could be rocking up with Steyn/Philander/Rabada/Morkel. Not too shabby.
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Youngster Rabada breaking records like nobodies business. At the tender age of 20, he joined Waqar Younis, by taking 3 6fers in international cricket.
I guess by the time South Africa next play Test cricket they could be rocking up with Steyn/Philander/Rabada/Morkel. Not too shabby.
Look's a serious prospect that lad, hope he remains injury free and has a long career.
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It is a shame that Steyn and Philander weren't fit enough to play. You should always want to test yourself against the best...
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Look's a serious prospect that lad, hope he remains injury free and has a long career.
Probably needs to be in a 5 bowler attack, simply to manage workload. Unless you have Shane Warne, it's a lot of work on the 3 seamers. If SA keep using 3 seamers then he'll be done by 30 and nobody wants to see that. Wonder if he's going into the IPL draw.
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Compton should open. Bell at number 3
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Compton should open. Bell at number 3
You'd be better off bringing kp back than bell!! SA were quite poor and without two of their best bowlers. This England side managed to win but it's not a 'great' series win (due to SA being poorer than ever and 2 of their main players were out). As many questions remain over the test team as at the start of the series. England can persist in giving players lacking top order technique top spots or can realise that unless it's an aus flat deck, you actually need the skills. Root shouldn't go above 4 as he's being exposed as vulnerable against the newer/moving ball (you may not like it as he's unfalable at present in most eyes) but anyone with any sense can see the technical issues outside off stump early on.
Sadly, Compton is our only hope currently and he doesn't look quite good enough but there isn't anyone else like that coming through as they are all white ball hitters like hales
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I would drop Compton... :o
I don't believe either he or Ballance are the answer to the question.
Personally I would persevere with Hales, but at 3 and then have Lees at 2. I would give Taylor a few more games too.
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I would drop Compton... :o
I don't believe either he or Ballance are the answer to the question.
Personally I would persevere with Hales, but at 3 and then have Lees at 2. I would give Taylor a few more games too.
I actually really agree with this
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Root is an opener and opened for Yorkshire. He scored nearly 200 odd against Australia opening and when was the last time somebody other than Cook did that?. England's reluctance to bat him at 3 seems bordering on the bizarre. He's virtually opening as it is, thanks to Lyth/Hales and co. Compton does at least hang around and knock some shine off. He was also Cooks most successful opening partner. Why not open with him. Root isn't an Ian Bell, a middle order player getting pushed up the order. He's an opener getting pushed down to 1st drop. He surely would average more than 30?
KP 4, Bell in his rightful place at 5. Loads of experience and ability. Look at that, everyone batting in a place they are best suited and Root has the talent to cope with 3. Sometimes the obvious solutions are the best.
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I would drop Compton... :o
I don't believe either he or Ballance are the answer to the question.
Personally I would persevere with Hales, but at 3 and then have Lees at 2. I would give Taylor a few more games too.
Hales in tests over Compton?? You probably predict it but 100% think you're nuts :)
Hales shouldn't be anywhere near test cricket, he is an embarrassment to the great game. Sod off to white ball. Compton isn't much cop but he is at least more suited and will score more and last longer
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Root is an opener and opened for Yorkshire. He scored nearly 200 odd against Australia opening and when was the last time somebody other than Cook did that?. England's reluctance to bat him at 3 seems bordering on the bizarre. He's virtually opening as it is, thanks to Lyth/Hales and co. Compton does at least hang around and knock some shine off. He was also Cooks most successful opening partner. Why not open with him. Root isn't an Ian Bell, a middle order player getting pushed up the order. He's an opener getting pushed down to 1st drop. He surely would average more than 30?
KP 4, Bell in his rightful place at 5. Loads of experience and ability. Look at that, everyone batting in a place they are best suited and Root has the talent to cope with 3. Sometimes the obvious solutions are the best.
I hate bell and tbh, if have him and kp back in at 4/5. No one else England have is anywhere near their class sadly. Would mean root to 3 and Compton opening.
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If I was Bayliss I would be telling Cook/ECB "You've had 14 tests doing it your way and it's still a f**king joke our top 3, let me pick who I want". Any bets on KP getting a spot in the World T20 squad as a trial?
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If I was Bayliss I would be telling Cook/ECB "You've had 14 tests doing it your way and it's still a f**king joke our top 3, let me pick who I want". Any bets on KP getting a spot in the World T20 squad as a trial?
That would take bottle, afraid anyone conforming to the ecb just doesn't have that in them. Whipped
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The problem with Hales is as a test match opener he gives the bowlers to many chances.
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Root is an opener and opened for Yorkshire. He scored nearly 200 odd against Australia opening and when was the last time somebody other than Cook did that?. England's reluctance to bat him at 3 seems bordering on the bizarre. He's virtually opening as it is, thanks to Lyth/Hales and co. Compton does at least hang around and knock some shine off. He was also Cooks most successful opening partner. Why not open with him. Root isn't an Ian Bell, a middle order player getting pushed up the order. He's an opener getting pushed down to 1st drop. He surely would average more than 30?
KP 4, Bell in his rightful place at 5. Loads of experience and ability. Look at that, everyone batting in a place they are best suited and Root has the talent to cope with 3. Sometimes the obvious solutions are the best.
If Rooooooot is an opener, opens for Yorkshire etc etc etc, why didn't he go to the England management when Lyth was dropped and stick his hand up to do the job.If he naturally fits that position why not bang down Bayliss's and Cooks door and insist to open, that way the middle order players could play in their natural postitions?
If Joe Root is that good the lowest he should be is Number 3. He's a bottle job, love to hate Ricky Pointing but HE WAS RIGHT :)
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Root had one big knock opening against Australia yes, but after getting dropped very early. Yeah he'd probably carry on averaging 35ish like he did opening before, but if he's averaging 55 at 4 then he can stay at 4!
3 is the problem position for me, Root was no good there, Bell will score plenty and be in contention for a place again I'm sure but he's never cut it at 3, Ballance's future if he has one is clearly competing with Taylor for the 5 slot. Taylor deserves a run and will do well with time, particularly with Asian tours coming up next winter. With regards to opening, sooner or later we'll just have to realise that we haven't got anyone at present who's going to average 45 opening the batting and just let whoever we think is best suited get on with it and try to improve them with experience. Don't see any other test countries with two gun openers at present anyway. Compton suits 3 well for England I think, his battle is just with the media and his insecurities. Bat like he did in the first test and he'll do fine.
Keeper as well, Bairstow is smashing it at 7 (still don't think he's good enough to bat higher) but by the end of the series even the frustration of the rest of the team with his catching was getting obvious. Can't carry on putting that many chances down.
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Don't buy the "let's leave root at 4 because it works" logic. Why can't he score runs at 3? If he averages 50 odd at 3 then surely the averages of the middle order batsman a might well increase. Steve Smith did 3 and 4, Kane Williamson doesn't do a bad job at 3 either. Typical English logic, let's not change things in case it makes it worse, rather than better.
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Williamson's always batted at 3 though, and Smith's just moved back to 4 because he thinks he's better there. Root might well end up there, but the difference between seeing him bat opening/3 for England and in the middle order is unbelievable, that's why he'll stay at 4 where he's still improving. Remember he's been tried up the order and wasn't that good!
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Cook* (best opener we have)
Hales (I feel he needs a proper go not a series here series there)
Ballance (averaging nearly 50 at 3)
Root (no one will disagree)
Taylor (same as hales and is a match winner on his day)
Stokes (same as root)
Bairstow (batted his way into the keepers role and no worse than buttler)
Ali (cant think of a better spinner also bats)
Wood (makes things happen, can also contain)
Broad (to open and those spells)
Finn (englands best bowler of the winter)
then have Anderson after a rest in the side for wood as he looked worn out this series minus one spell at centurian after ab had wound him up
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Cook* (best opener we have)
Hales (I feel he needs a proper go not a series here series there)
Ballance (averaging nearly 50 at 3)
Root (no one will disagree)
Taylor (same as hales and is a match winner on his day)
Stokes (same as root)
Bairstow (batted his way into the keepers role and no worse than buttler)
Ali (cant think of a better spinner also bats)
Wood (makes things happen, can also contain)
Broad (to open and those spells)
Finn (englands best bowler of the winter)
then have Anderson after a rest in the side for wood as he looked worn out this series minus one spell at centurian after ab had wound him up
I like your line up but I would play Anderson at home in the summer and rest him for the sub continent games and play Rashid.
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I only said no jimmy as he seemed really off this series but I agree at home hes a different animal so to speak
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I like your line up but I would play Anderson at home in the summer and rest him for the sub continent games and play Rashid.
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Kohli and co gonna be licking their chops at the prospect of facing Rashid...
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Kohli and co gonna be licking their chops at the prospect of facing Rashid...
He blew hot and cold in the UAE but I think he's probably as good as we've got.
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Anyways Kohli will have nicked off to Broad long before Rashid starts his spell ;)
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Its interesting how little some of the supposed experts on here seem to know about the players they are talking up!
Lets start with Root. Its a misnomer to say that he was a specialist opener at Yorkshire. He batted there for a while, yes, but that was more to do with it being the first vacancy that came up in the side than any particular desire on his part (the debutant was hardly going to go past McGrath, Gale, Jacques, Bairstow etc). Once he became a solid first choice...apart from two games at the start of the 2013 season, he has not opened for Yorkshire in any form of cricket since - we had a specialist (Lees) and a manufactured guy in peak form (Lyth).
Its a similar problem to Balance - who has been cast as a top three bat when he is naturally suited to 5/6
Should he go up the order now? I'd say no - we're blessed with guys who should bat 5/6/7 (Bairstow, Stokes, Taylor, Balance, Buttler, Vince) and weak in the top four - if he is making runs at four, leave him there.
Should Hales, Compton or Taylor be dropped? Whilst I don't believe that Hales is the answer to the opening problem, Compton looks better at three and neither should be easily discarded - much as Lyth is the better player, he proved that you can drop players way too soon. Taylor is vulnerable - not because he doesn't deserve a few more games, but because you get the feeling that Bairstow is coming up short as a keeper. If Buttler starts the year well, he may come back, and YJB is much the better bet at five.
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Lets start with Root. Its a misnomer to say that he was a specialist opener at Yorkshire
He's been an opening batsman all his life, juniors through Collegiate through Yorkshire age groups.
Saying that, I'd leave him at four.
How about Cook, Lyth, Compton, Root, Ballance, Stokes, Bairstow, Rashid, Broad, Finn, Anderson...
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Its interesting how little some of the supposed experts on here seem to know about the players they are talking up!
Lets start with Root. Its a misnomer to say that he was a specialist opener at Yorkshire. He batted there for a while, yes, but that was more to do with it being the first vacancy that came up in the side than any particular desire on his part (the debutant was hardly going to go past McGrath, Gale, Jacques, Bairstow etc). Once he became a solid first choice...apart from two games at the start of the 2013 season, he has not opened for Yorkshire in any form of cricket since - we had a specialist (Lees) and a manufactured guy in peak form (Lyth).
Its a similar problem to Balance - who has been cast as a top three bat when he is naturally suited to 5/6
Should he go up the order now? I'd say no - we're blessed with guys who should bat 5/6/7 (Bairstow, Stokes, Taylor, Balance, Buttler, Vince) and weak in the top four - if he is making runs at four, leave him there.
Should Hales, Compton or Taylor be dropped? Whilst I don't believe that Hales is the answer to the opening problem, Compton looks better at three and neither should be easily discarded - much as Lyth is the better player, he proved that you can drop players way too soon. Taylor is vulnerable - not because he doesn't deserve a few more games, but because you get the feeling that Bairstow is coming up short as a keeper. If Buttler starts the year well, he may come back, and YJB is much the better bet at five.
The 4 times I played against root(3 vs collegiate and one vs Yorkshire academy) root opened.
He was an opener the majority off his youth so unsure why he wasn't an opener at Yorkshire by choice merely forced there as only chance???
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I have a feeling he was opening because he had a great technique but when he was young he couldn't get it off the square, so he could get the most runs opening, just tapping singles
However this is based on something I heard years ago and have no evidence so please don't tear this theory apart
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Just play the same team, in home conditions we'll be fine. All this chop and change talk is bit bleurgh
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Just play the same team, in home conditions we'll be fine. All this chop and change talk is bit bleurgh
Gotta agree with Superfreak Slick Rick on this one, I like the idea of Ballance getting back in the side but I'd stick with the same side as much as possible through the home summer.
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I agree with rickjames and northernboy1987. England just beat SA at their home. This is a big win. They should retain the same and tweak the bowling option to suit the home conditions.
Rabada had two fantastic days and that might have routed the entire team but that doesn't warrant a change in the batting line up. Compton and Hales need to improve, but one away series isn't sufficient for judgement. Persist with them for a year and see how it improves.
SriLanka test team is terrible mess as seen in the NZ tour. It might be a good chance for all the batsman to get some runs at home ...
Advantage of test cricket, you are not building a World Cup team rather a team which can capture the elusive number 1 position. This would happen only if players are given more time to perform at international level.
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Sri Lanka will see the same xi ish(woakes for Finn) baring any more injuries.
Hales, Compton and Taylor will be watched and need to have a good series.
I personally would rather see Rashid in for Ali, but unless a world class spinner appears, I unfortunately see England sticking with Ali till he retires.
Rashid will get the gig when two spinners needed.
After the Sri Lanka serious is when changes may happen.
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I agree with rickjames and northernboy1987. England just beat SA at their home. This is a big win. They should retain the same and tweak the bowling option to suit the home conditions.
Rabada had two fantastic days and that might have routed the entire team but that doesn't warrant a change in the batting line up. Compton and Hales need to improve, but one away series isn't sufficient for judgement. Persist with them for a year and see how it improves.
SriLanka test team is terrible mess as seen in the NZ tour. It might be a good chance for all the batsman to get some runs at home ...
Advantage of test cricket, you are not building a World Cup team rather a team which can capture the elusive number 1 position. This would happen only if players are given more time to perform at international level.
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So you persist with hales, he slaps very very very poor bowling around for some runs and everyone crows about how great he is.. Then along comes decent Oppos again and he's found wanting... What's the point of taking anything from runs when against poor attacks or flat wickets?? You judge people on e hard runs, not the easy average inflating ones .. Voges being a prime recent example
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So you persist with hales, he slaps very very very poor bowling around for some runs and everyone crows about how great he is.. Then along comes decent Oppos again and he's found wanting... What's the point of taking anything from runs when against poor attacks or flat wickets?? You judge people on e hard runs, not the easy average inflating ones .. Voges being a prime recent example
Is there not the possibilty that easy runs could boost confidence leading to an improvement in their all round game? I honestly don't know whether Hales is cut out for test cricket and I understand why you're dubious (understatement of the year!) about him but he does strike me as the kind of player who suffers from a lack of confidence in his own ability and would improve (whether he would improve enough remains to be seen) with a decent run in the side.
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I'm coming round to this way of thinking - keep the same side for the first couple of tests at least, especially if Finn is fit. He;s gonna get 250 + test wickets that boy!
However, I suspect that pressure will be bought to bear if Vince / Ansari / Roy / Lythe ? Ballance score a pile of runs.
Could also be interesting if Ansari and Rashid pick up wickets too!
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I'm coming round to this way of thinking - keep the same side for the first couple of tests at least, especially if Finn is fit. He;s gonna get 250 + test wickets that boy!
However, I suspect that pressure will be bought to bear if Vince / Ansari / Roy / Lythe ? Ballance score a pile of runs.
Could also be interesting if Ansari and Rashid pick up wickets too!
I like the look of Vince and I agree 100% regarding Finn, looks a class act since he came back! For my money I'd play Rashid over Ali but I understand why we don't risk it.
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We have a world class spinner and if I was bayliss I would be spending the majority of the summer getting him a game and making sure he's back to his best. You win with finger spin in India and the only way we aren't going to get thrashed is if India can't afford to doctor the pitches. They won't do that if Panesar plays. Take ali and ansari but I see rashid as more an ashes option on harder decks.
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We're talking about India already? That series isn't for another year!
Regarding spinners we're still living in a dreamland where we had both Swann and Panesar who were once in a generation players
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So you persist with hales, he slaps very very very poor bowling around for some runs and everyone crows about how great he is.. Then along comes decent Oppos again and he's found wanting... What's the point of taking anything from runs when against poor attacks or flat wickets?? You judge people on e hard runs, not the easy average inflating ones .. Voges being a prime recent example
I don't deny the fact that Hales made mistakes. But showing him the door just after one series that too against SA is not fair. If openers are to be judged like this, then no one will last for more than a single test series !! Series against SL can help him build confidence ... It's not about runs, it about giving them more chances ...
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Seeing as I haven't been able to get on the forum for 24 hours I have to say what an extremely poor effort from England. Rabada humiliated the batting 2 innings in a row.. Poor show from England... I'm sure you will all say "oh well we won the series". Sorry doesn't cut it with me boys... That was just plain terrible
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Seeing as I haven't been able to get on the forum for 24 hours I have to say what an extremely poor effort from England. Rabada humiliated the batting 2 innings in a row.. Poor show from England... I'm sure you will all say "oh well we won the series". Sorry doesn't cut it with me boys... That was just plain terrible
Totally agree, first the Aussies now SA. Not sure why we are making the results look closer than they should. Nice weakness to have though, losing dead rubbers ;-)
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Seeing as I haven't been able to get on the forum for 24 hours I have to say what an extremely poor effort from England. Rabada humiliated the batting 2 innings in a row.. Poor show from England... I'm sure you will all say "oh well we won the series". Sorry doesn't cut it with me boys... That was just plain terrible
I agree - didn't see the Test but judging by everything I have heard, England were terrible!
We do the same against the Aussies and SA, and it is not good! We win the series and then just don't bother with anything after!!
You rarely catch the Aussies or SA just relaxing and not bothering if they win a series - their mentality is to continue to push and crush the opposition no matter what! And we need to find that same sort of mentality!!!
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So, my theory on the dead rubber woes: Truly great teams make winning seem effortless. I'm sure the more you win the easier I gets, and that winning becomes a habit.
England aren't there yet and the level of effort/concentration to win test matches/series is taking a lot out of them. However, if they continue on their current path I believe their stamina will build
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Bit late for me this but credit where credit is due that Rabada looks a real find young quick and hungry and Bavuma looks organised and very high class .
They simply wanted it more I think what have England learned, nothing new batting is the weakness some need to prove there good enough some have been found out I suspect there not.
Work to be done no doubt but so much positives for me we like many teams need to work on areas and improve things to become a truly world class side but we are moving in the right direction.
Must for me the opening slot we need to find somebody for me Lees at Yorkshire has to be given a go and the keeping need to be improved.
But what do I know but I know one thing we won the series and there optimism in my mind
Was not a good end though
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the keeping need to be improved.
I think they'll stick with Bairstow and I think he'll improve much in the same way that Prior did, he seems the type of lad who's prepared to work hard and put the graft in, I'm sure his keeping will come good.
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:o ???
Picking lines out of context mate ? :D
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I agree that the opener who scores the most runs before the first Test shouldn't just be picked on that. But the game is a lot about runs, he hasn't got them and so people are going to speculate about his place. Same with Compo and JT, too! :)
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Test cricket isn't as simple as 'whoever scores the most gets a spot'.. It's so much more than that (or should be), it's about mental ability, technical ability, heart, fight and how your game fits with what the team needs (notice I don't give a white if your a prat and hate everyone.. Pro sportsman so get on with what you're paid to do even if you hate each other.. It's not amateur cricket after all)
Hales for all I care can go back and smash 3 100's first lvcc games back.. He's still not good enough for test cricket (unless a road is prepared, in which case just pick biffers). Surely it's not frigging hard to look at all the players and work out who has the technical ability and mental state, after all.. What the hell are all these paid professional analysts and coaches bloody doing at the ecb
Hales to anyone with even a slight knowledge of cricket can see hales was never going to be any use in tests, let alone top order (excluding flat tracks as that completely negates the point of test cricket and makes runs way too easy (case in point is the recent aus vs ind pitches etc (odi's I know but aus produce similar in tests))
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Attended a reception yesterday where the England Men's and Ladies teams were present. All the players were really pleasant and willing to have a chat and sign items. Test players left on Tuesday even already. They were so professional in their interaction with the guests.
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It's the modern, sterilized, media-friendly age. Where's the era of the players downing several pints and p*ssing in the ornamental flower-pots?
And I'm talking about the women.
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Just seen that Trevor Baylis has said Compton and hales could switch in the order, might not be the worst idea ever!
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clever Trevor.
a little bit of pressure off Hales and a sign England are prepared to give him a decent run. debatable of course whether he is the right one to give a run too(Lyth personally for me) but we cannot chop and change all the time...
very impressed with Bayliss so far and Farbrace.
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It's the modern, sterilized, media-friendly age. Where's the era of the players downing several pints and p*ssing in the ornamental flower-pots?
They certainly came across as well trained and very aware of protocol. Hats off to them though for the way they acted and still engaged with the other guests.
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clever Trevor.
a little bit of pressure off Hales and a sign England are prepared to give him a decent run. debatable of course whether he is the right one to give a run too(Lyth personally for me) but we cannot chop and change all the time...
very impressed with Bayliss so far and Farbrace.
Yeah I was impressed with farbrace in the nz series! I think England need a more laid back style coach to let the players do what they need! Also cook seems to have improved as skipper since moored left as well!
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