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General Cricket => Latest Matches => Topic started by: ppccopener on December 11, 2020, 10:15:23 AM
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Squad announced this morning. They havnt pulled Bairstow from the big bash to sit on the sidelines,he's going to play in Popes position.
I would of liked to see Malan have another chance now he has more international experience, but if it's not Malan then Lawrence was in the squad last summer, clearly highly though of, did he deserve a chance instead?
Looks like Broad and Anderson will go with Archer rested, I would take one not both in rotation, spinners will bowl the bulk of the overs.
Moeen,Leach,Bess and maybe Rashid to make 4 spin options?
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What id like to see:
Burns
Sibley
Crawley
Root
Stokes
Foakes
Moeen
Rashid
Leach
Broad
Anderson
What I think we will see:
Burns
Sibley
Crawley
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Buttler
Ali
Leach
Broad
Anderson
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Not convinced Broad and Anderson would play in the final 11 but think you have called that right with both teams.
Butler is the better batsman over Bairstow, don't think Butler playing in Popes position with Foakes in the side keeping weakens us at all. We need the best keeper IMO.
That won't happen thou I'm pretty sure.
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Would liked to have seen Lawrence given a go, far more potential long term than Bairstow.
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Stokes is out of the tour so you would expect Woakes if he wasn’t in already to play I think
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Bairstow playing red ball.. laughable really .
Foakes should be there as the best keeper and has been badly treated for a while now.
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Bairstow playing red ball.. laughable really .
Foakes should be there as the best keeper and has been badly treated for a while now.
Foakes deserved a proper run in the side after that last SL tour. Quality keeper, no slouch with the bat and some of the catches and stumpings he pulls off are match winners. Even if he averages 25, if he takes all these chances Buttler and Bairstow miss then I reckon he's well worth his spot.
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wow Dan Lawrence makes the squad too.
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Burns isn't available due to being on maternity leave...
Bairstow waltzing back into the side disappoints me so much even if it's the 'he's a keeper' nonsense. As for the rest of the batting I guess we'll see Sibley and Crawley opening and everyone moving up one. Still think Foakes should be keeping, but I won't be surprised to see Buttler get found out in those conditions.
In an ideal world both Leach and Bess play in tandem, but they will inevitably go with Moeen on the 'bat a bit' basis, despite having a rather woeful run of it. Not sure there's a place for both Anderson and Broad in those conditions either, if I had my way it'd be Broad who'd worked a hell of a lot on his cutters.
Jonny Bairstow in the test squad again, though. End me.
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I do so enjoy the particular bile that the denizens of this forum reserve for Bairstow (whilst simultaneously foaming at the mouth at the thought of Buttler)!
Though on this occasion, I am a little baffled at how they are expecting the side to line up - they have 6 seamers in a party of 16 but will only need two for the tests, so in essence it may boil down to Foakes/Bairstow/Lawrence for two spots. Surely Bracey would have been a better bet as, you know, someone who has experience opening the batting....and I would love to have seen Broad or Anderson left at home and Virdi taken because as a wicket taking spinner, he's our best long term bet.
As is, I suspect we'll get something underwhelming like:
Crawley
Sibley
Bairstow
Root
Lawrence
Buttler
Ali
Curran
Bess
Leach
Wood/Stone
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Bairstow waltzing back into the side disappoints me so much even if it's the 'he's a keeper' nonsense.
The guy has test centuries in Asia and Australia. Its not like we have a huge stack of experienced options who can make those kind of claims, so he has hardly waltzed back in.
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The guy has test centuries in Asia and Australia. Its not like we have a huge stack of experienced options who can make those kind of claims, so he has hardly waltzed back in.
Burns, stokes and Pope all missing this tour. Whilst I would rather us play Foakes and Butler in Popes spot you can understand the selectors thinking by picking him. Don’t agree with it but it’s coverage in the positions.
I think Bairstow could well bat 3 and will definitely play.
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With no Burns, Stokes or Pope it's going to be quite a changed England batting line up.
TBH as much as I don't like England going back to Bairstow considering he's played no red ball, what choice do they have, and his record against spin is good.
The question will be where is he going to bat. Crawley will now open, so number 3 if free, but so is 5 with no Stokes or Pope.
Picking Lawrence would make things interesting as it would give another spin option.
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Burns, stokes and Pope all missing this tour. Whilst I would rather us play Foakes and Butler in Popes spot you can understand the selectors thinking by picking him. Don’t agree with it but it’s coverage in the positions.
I think Bairstow could well bat 3 and will definitely play.
I'd rather they sacked Buttler off entirely but hey, we can't always get what we want :)
Seriously, its a sensible horses/courses type selection. It will only get interesting if he cracks a rage hundred or two early doors - he has form in that regard - and makes himself a strong candidate for India when everyone is back!
Occured to me after my last post, possibly one other person who might be a little cheesed off is Joe Denly - recent top order experience and capable of bowling a few decent overs of spin.
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The question will be where is he going to bat. Crawley will now open, so number 3 if free, but so is 5 with no Stokes or Pope.
Picking Lawrence would make things interesting as it would give another spin option.
There are lots of permutations - I suspect three, but they could just as easily leave Crawley in situ and push him up to open, or use Ali - also previously good against spin - in one of those roles.
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I'm a fan of Dan Lawrence. And I'm often critical of people using averages to make a point...
But JB's Test average is the same as Lawrence's in first-class.
Some of the hatred aimed at him is way over the top.
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I've also watched a lot of Ben Foakes. He's good, but he's not God. He seems to have become a fashionable way for people to make thenselves look like they really know cricket.
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I've also watched a lot of Ben Foakes. He's good, but he's not God. He seems to have become a fashionable way for people to make thenselves look like they really know cricket.
No, but he is the best keeper of his generation. I get that there were some signs in his batting that suggested pace at the body would be a real issue, but there is a really important point that your keeper has to firstly catch everything that comes his way (and maybe make the occasional something out of nothing dismissal). Foakes does this. Buttler shells way too many straightforward chances.
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I'm not even suggesting that he shouldn't be in the side. But people do jump on bandwagons.
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Didn't I recently hear it said that Buttler went two years without dropping a catch for England?
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Didn't I recently hear it said that Buttler went two years without dropping a catch for England?
I hadn't heard that - though oddly in white ball I might believe it, as he seems sharper there.
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I've also watched a lot of Ben Foakes. He's good, but he's not God. He seems to have become a fashionable way for people to make thenselves look like they really know cricket.
He’s by far the best keeper we have had since Russell, but you also get a good batsman as well so he’s not a specialist keeper as such...
When we are playing against spin you can see a natural keeper and those that are batsmen first and keepers second, like both Butler and Bairstow.
We have a lengthy tour in India next year and the best keeper helps us win games I think.
Against spin keeping really is an art for the purists amoung us.
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I'm not even suggesting that he shouldn't be in the side. But people do jump on bandwagons.
Do you think people have been unfair to Jonny Bairstow?
He has certainly had plenty of opportunities. There are a number of players within the England set up that can do no wrong. The other JB being another 'golden' child.
There is plenty of evidence to say that both JB's are excellent one day players but the jury is still out on them as long term test match players. I don't think anyone is suggesting that Foakes is God but he is definitely England's best wicket keeper and a capable batsman.
I don't have any strong opinions on Jonny Bairstow being recall.
In your opinion who do you think should among the batsmen chosen for the touring party @Bats_Entertainment ?
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No, but he is the best keeper of his generation.
If he's the best keeper and can average 35 then that's good enough. Bairstow averages 35??? maybe less.. isn't a good keeper.. I'm not really sure what he's offering.. It would be better to accept he's had his many chances and give other players (Denly will never be much but maybe deserves another go before him, Lawrence (again, won't be anything special but if he even averages 35 it's no loss either) or Dent... or Bracey ... give these guys a run rather than turning back to known failures
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I hadn't heard that - though oddly in white ball I might believe it, as he seems sharper there.
totally different keeping in white ball to tests.. especially in Asia (he says having never really kept wicket :( )
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I've also watched a lot of Ben Foakes. He's good, but he's not God. He seems to have become a fashionable way for people to make thenselves look like they really know cricket.
Is it really jumping on a bandwagon when he’s the best keeper of his time, and averages over 40 with the bat? The bloke saved us in SL and kept brilliantly then got dropped for his troubles 😂
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If he's the best keeper and can average 35 then that's good enough. Bairstow averages 35??? maybe less.. isn't a good keeper.. I'm not really sure what he's offering.. It would be better to accept he's had his many chances and give other players (Denly will never be much but maybe deserves another go before him, Lawrence (again, won't be anything special but if he even averages 35 it's no loss either) or Dent... or Bracey ... give these guys a run rather than turning back to known failures
Lawrence won't be anything special? At 23 - he's got 10 first class hundreds from 74 FC games, has been part of 2 County Champs winning teams, averages 38 in FC cricket since debut and has shown some serious promise on the England Lions tours. Think it's a bit premature to declare that he "won't be anything special".
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Didn't I recently hear it said that Buttler went two years without dropping a catch for England?
Probably in white ball cricket, because he had a howler at Old Trafford against Pakistan and dropped several
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cant believe people writing off Lawrence lol
damn tough task masters :o
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Why haven't they taken enough batsmen? Only two who normally bat in the top 3, and the only batting backup in the main squad is Foakes. And then six reserve bowlers and one batsman. Fair enough it's only a two test series, but the practice games should be comically low scoring.
Pretty easy to guess the side (if not the order) given Broad and Anderson won't have been taken for a holiday:
1 Sibley
2 Crawley
3 Bairstow
4 Root
5 Lawrence
6 Moeen
7 Buttler
8 Bess
9 Broad
10 Leach
11 Anderson
On Bairstow... not a totally unreasonable selection given Stokes/Pope both unavailable, but what a kick in the teeth for any county top 3 player who'd been dreaming of a callup.
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Lawrence won't be anything special? At 23 - he's got 10 first class hundreds from 74 FC games, has been part of 2 County Champs winning teams, averages 38 in FC cricket since debut and has shown some serious promise on the England Lions tours. Think it's a bit premature to declare that he "won't be anything special".
avg 38 in domestic cricket.. Shouldn't we be wanting people to be nearer 50 in FC?????? Given it's vastly easier to plunder runs at county level etc etc
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avg 38 in domestic cricket.. Shouldn't we be wanting people to be nearer 50 in FC?????? Given it's vastly easier to plunder runs at county level etc etc
When he's been selected for the Lions on the basis of a technical change he made at the back end of the 2019 season, I don't think it's particularly useful to talk about his career average. You're also ignoring the fact he made his FC debut at 17, can't expect a brilliant career average when he's played much of his cricket before the age of 21. Bairstow isn't going to get much better either, Lawrence at 23 has much more room for improvement.
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avg 38 in domestic cricket.. Shouldn't we be wanting people to be nearer 50 in FC?????? Given it's vastly easier to plunder runs at county level etc etc
38 career average is pretty good these days in the County Champs, the pitches have not been so good the past few years. Almost noone knocking them out at 50 anymore.
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Given that 3 of the top 6 aren't on this trip I would have preferred to see some bolder selections in terms of looking to the future whereas it seems a safety-first selection with Ali and Bairstow back. Also hard to read much into tours to Sri Lanka and India though given than the conditions dictate much changed sides to those that will play elsewhere
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When he's been selected for the Lions on the basis of a technical change he made at the back end of the 2019 season, I don't think it's particularly useful to talk about his career average. You're also ignoring the fact he made his FC debut at 17, can't expect a brilliant career average when he's played much of his cricket before the age of 21. Bairstow isn't going to get much better either, Lawrence at 23 has much more room for improvement.
I do love how saying someone might not be anything special means it's 'writing someone off'.. sigh.
Special to me is 50+ test average.. average test player is 40+ ... not good enough test player is sub 40 (as a batter).
Either way, we are all entitled to an opinion.. just like those who love Bairstow/Moeen/buttler etc
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38 career average is pretty good these days in the County Champs, the pitches have not been so good the past few years. Almost noone knocking them out at 50 anymore.
one could counter it with 'don't blame pitches' when most people will accept it's not due to outstanding bowlers and crap desks.. it's because we simply aren't producing quality batsmen capable anymore. They are being trained to play white ball which like It or not, affects players technically and mentally. We produce players who can biff it and turn their hand at red ball.. rather than red ballers turning their hand at white ball. If you want 500 plays 500 you won't get many red ball quality .. if you want scratch to 225 in 50 overs you will produce many red ball batters and have high quality but you will have less 'fun' white ball teams.. simply can't have both generally speaking
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Given that 3 of the top 6 aren't on this trip I would have preferred to see some bolder selections in terms of looking to the future whereas it seems a safety-first selection with Ali and Bairstow back. Also hard to read much into tours to Sri Lanka and India though given than the conditions dictate much changed sides to those that will play elsewhere
also, SL are dire so we can't read much into them .. just like SA/WI etc. Given the supposed quality the ECB has and the financial resources, these teams and tours should be a picnic
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I do love how saying someone might not be anything special means it's 'writing someone off'.. sigh.
Special to me is 50+ test average.. average test player is 40+ ... not good enough test player is sub 40 (as a batter).
Either way, we are all entitled to an opinion.. just like those who love Bairstow/Moeen/buttler etc
Semantics maybe, but you didn't say 'might be'. I'd agree he's no sure bet given he'd be a debutant at international level but I think he has serious promise and might be a bit of a rough diamond in much the same way Crawley has been.
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I quite like the squad and think Lawrence will have a decent chance of getting into the XI
Attack wise I'd think it will be Anderson OR Broad plus Wood OR Stone. Pace and Reverse will be handy on the dust bowls. Bess & Leach should be shoeins over there. Which leaves a spinning all rounders role to fill. Moeen did bowl well out there last time but has been in terrible form with bat and ball so Lawrence has a shout. Im not sure how good his bowing is, any Essex fans might know more?
Wouldn't a leggy be a luxury- Oh Adil where are you?
Dont think there will be any need for a 3rd seamer although it is a different time of year to the last Tour so maybe Woakes or Curran will get a game at 7 if theres any help for them.
also, SL are dire so we can't read much into them .. just like SA/WI etc. Given the supposed quality the ECB has and the financial resources, these teams and tours should be a picnic
Mr Happys back.
Guess what - ECB has had more resources than these countries during the whole history of Test cricket - you know why we dont win every time we tour them? Because home advantage is massive and its bloody hard. Stop moaning - you sound like you could guest on loose women!
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I quite like the squad and think Lawrence will have a decent chance of getting into the XI
Attack wise I'd think it will be Anderson OR Broad plus Wood OR Stone. Pace and Reverse will be handy on the dust bowls. Bess & Leach should be shoeins over there. Which leaves a spinning all rounders role to fill. Moeen did bowl well out there last time but has been in terrible form with bat and ball so Lawrence has a shout. Im not sure how good his bowing is, any Essex fans might know more?
Wouldn't a leggy be a luxury- Oh Adil where are you?
Dont think there will be any need for a 3rd seamer although it is a different time of year to the last Tour so maybe Woakes or Curran will get a game at 7 if theres any help for them.
Mr Happys back.
Guess what - ECB has had more resources than these countries during the whole history of Test cricket - you know why we dont win every time we tour them? Because home advantage is massive and its bloody hard. Stop moaning - you sound like you could guest on loose women!
ah mr happy. Yeah, sorry I expect very very very well paid professional sportsman in the pinnacle of the game to actually.. you know.. be good. Sorry I don't bend over when the next ECB/Media person says we should over a player and actually wait to see if they are going to produce consistently etc.
Yes, lets start to say how great this team is, how world class we'll be and how great it'll be to beat a SL with anyone notable in it's ranks currently??
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I'm pretty sure the Buttler stat related to Test matches. But he's dropped since.
I'm happy with the selection of both Lawrence and Bairstow.
I'm sorry if I've mentioned it before, but I'm quite proud of myself for feeling so sure Lawrence would play for England within ten minutes of seeing him bat in the nets as a 15 year-old.
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Why haven't they taken enough batsmen? Only two who normally bat in the top 3, and the only batting backup in the main squad is Foakes. And then six reserve bowlers and one batsman. Fair enough it's only a two test series, but the practice games should be comically low scoring.
Pretty easy to guess the side (if not the order) given Broad and Anderson won't have been taken for a holiday:
1 Sibley
2 Crawley
3 Bairstow
4 Root
5 Lawrence
6 Moeen
7 Buttler
8 Bess
9 Broad
10 Leach
11 Anderson
On Bairstow... not a totally unreasonable selection given Stokes/Pope both unavailable, but what a kick in the teeth for any county top 3 player who'd been dreaming of a callup.
Although I agree with the side you have put there, with Lawrence playing you have 5 spinners in the team, so you could play a bolter like Wood or Stone as an X factor luxury selection.
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ah mr happy. Yeah, sorry I expect very very very well paid professional sportsman in the pinnacle of the game to actually.. you know.. be good. Sorry I don't bend over when the next ECB/Media person says we should over a player and actually wait to see if they are going to produce consistently etc.
Yes, lets start to say how great this team is, how world class we'll be and how great it'll be to beat a SL with anyone notable in it's ranks currently??
Not sure who you think is bending over. And I think most of the forum are fairly realistic about the current sides prowess. I think they have a long way to go. But I support the England team at home and away regardless of results. Whoever wears the shirt.
You just come across as permanently miserable about cricket in general. If I moaned about a subject/sport as much as you I probably wouldnt play it and certainly wouldn't post regularly about it on a forum. Just take up something you enjoy
Why dont you nail your flag to the mast and give us the touring party and playing XI you would take to Sri Lanka?
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I do love how saying someone might not be anything special means it's 'writing someone off'.. sigh.
Special to me is 50+ test average.. average test player is 40+ ... not good enough test player is sub 40 (as a batter).
Either way, we are all entitled to an opinion.. just like those who love Bairstow/Moeen/buttler etc
We are indeed all entitled to an opinion, the forum wouldn’t be much fun without them.
With younger players I think it’s impossible to avoid picking on potential not just stats..Lawrence has potential but no one knows if he can fulfil it until he steps up, it’s a big jump from County to tests.
Pope has massive potential and a first class average to back it up...but there are not many like him around.
The 50 average you refer to is a very high bar to achieve,maybe easier for Asian players at home rather than ours.
I don’t recall one our our tests players with a 50 average in recent memory..plenty of mid 40’s.
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The lot of a FC batsman in England has got harder in recent times. 4-day cricket is not pushed to the bookends of the season when conditions are more favourable to the bowlers and a big investment on drainage has meant cricket is now played in conditions when players would have previously sat with their feet up watching the ground drying. I suspect that the direction is very much towards lower FC averages for batsmen in England
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You’re right there @SD and with the normal limited overs matches, 2020 county and the new hundred format next year the CC looks the be at the start and at the end. With the money put into short form it’s virtually impossible to see anything else time wise for the Championship
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Whether Bairstow should or shouldn’t be in the squad are now irrelevant as he’s already been selected. But if the Lankan’s are planning square turners Bairstow opening and causing mayhem might not be a bad option. Sehwag and Dilshan frequently did that job.
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You’re right there @SD and with the normal limited overs matches, 2020 county and the new hundred format next year the CC looks the be at the start and at the end. With the money put into short form it’s virtually impossible to see anything else time wise for the Championship
The challenge will be to ensure the quality of 4-day cricket is able to produce test-quality cricketers. Playing lots of FC games of its self doesn't produce quality, it's probably the case that too much of it diminishes the standard. But playing only in early and late season could limit the development of genuine quick bowling and spinners.
There must also be a concern about the overall playing standard. The talent pool is spread across 18 sides, the best domestic played rarely play, the best overseas players are engaged in franchise cricket and the Kolopak window is closing.
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avg 38 in domestic cricket.. Shouldn't we be wanting people to be nearer 50 in FC?????? Given it's vastly easier to plunder runs at county level etc etc
Given the extent to which his home county doctor their pitches to suit their attack, its actually not an awful number!
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Moeen tests positive, 10 day isolation so he's unable to train before the first test. Woakes a potential close contact. I'd expected Moeen to come in for Stokes so imagine a lot of rethinking is going on!
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I think it might’ve originally been a toss up between Lawrence and Foakes, but we might see both now with Lawrence chipping in with a fair few overs. Curran basically guaranteed over Woakes now too.
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Alternatively Root could end up bowling a lot more than planned if the pitches are as conducive to spin as last time out.
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Moeen tests positive, 10 day isolation so he's unable to train before the first test. Woakes a potential close contact. I'd expected Moeen to come in for Stokes so imagine a lot of rethinking is going on!
It's a bit crazy how Mo tests negative right before getting on the flight and then tests positive straight after getting off the plane.
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It's a bit crazy how Mo tests negative right before getting on the flight and then tests positive straight after getting off the plane.
Shows how difficult the virus is to contain i guess!
Would like to see Lawrence in the eleven now as the spinning all rounder to support bess and leach. He did well in Australia with the Lions, if he can handle the pressure of Test cricket its a feather in his cap for the Ashes down under next winter
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It's a bit crazy how Mo tests negative right before getting on the flight and then tests positive straight after getting off the plane.
Not that crazy, different testing methods.
Lawrence was likely to bat 5 anyway, there aren't any spare batsmen in the squad. Realistic top 7 bats are: Sibley, Crawley, Root, Bairstow, Lawrence, Ali, Butter and Foakes. Remove Ali and unless they play Curran at 7 it's Foakes in or a callup for Bracey.
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It's a bit crazy how Mo tests negative right before getting on the flight and then tests positive straight after getting off the plane.
Something called the incubation period
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What's the odds on the tour not completing like last time?
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It's a bit crazy how Mo tests negative right before getting on the flight and then tests positive straight after getting off the plane.
Lateral flow tests can be a tad unreliable...
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What's the odds on the tour not completing like last time?
I saw an interview with Root before the tour left and his response to a question on this was that they would not be returning home if there were positive cases in the squad. The South Africa incident seemed to be more a case that the players had lost faith in the measures being put in place by the South African board rather than the test results that were coming back
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It seems like Sri Lanka is going to be much more controlled; that being said, this tour followed by India equates to 10 odd weeks of a pretty gruelling schedule.
Interested to see how Crawley and Sibley go in these conditions, big big runs needed on the board...
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Not to underestimate SL but they have just been thumped by SA, it's the conditions more than the oppo I think.
I'm not convinced this tour can be kept safe enough for the players but cricket boards are losing money/tv rights so the pressure is in to complete the tour. They might have to accomodate one or more players testive positive.
No one wants our(or their) players missing games thru illness of any sort but there does seem a way forward for Foakes to be back in the 11.
Can't believe there any many who say he does not deserve it. If we play 3 spinners, or Leach and the offie plus Root-we got to have the best keeper.
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It seems like Sri Lanka is going to be much more controlled; that being said, this tour followed by India equates to 10 odd weeks of a pretty gruelling schedule.
Interested to see how Crawley and Sibley go in these conditions, big big runs needed on the board...
I think Crawley will do well. I fear for Sibley starting against spin but hope im wrong
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I don't care about the team, I just want to see England play before I become a massive New Zealand fan!
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Crawley looked very accomplished against spin during the summer. Sibley is a worry. He neither looked comfortable in defence or attack.
Not sure that Ali's absence will give Foakes a better chance of playing. Without Stokes and Ali as all rounders- and assuming that Butler will play - it seems to me that it will be harder to balance the side with a specialist keeper
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Crawley looked very accomplished against spin during the summer. Sibley is a worry. He neither looked comfortable in defence or attack.
Not sure that Ali's absence will give Foakes a better chance of playing. Without Stokes and Ali as all rounders- and assuming that Butler will play - it seems to me that it will be harder to balance the side with a specialist keeper
If Foakes doesn't get in the final 11 I don't think we have enough batsmen, I'm thinking he opposite, with Ali out and Stokes out, no Burns....we need batting coverage... Unless I'm missing something.
Foakes as a specialist keeper....yes.....hes the best by miles, but also he's a good batsman too.
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If Foakes plays but doesnt keep wicket someone on that selection committee should be sacked immediately
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If Foakes doesn't get in the final 11 I don't think we have enough batsmen, I'm thinking he opposite, with Ali out and Stokes out, no Burns....we need batting coverage... Unless I'm missing something.
Foakes as a specialist keeper....yes.....hes the best by miles, but also he's a good batsman too.
My thinking is without Stokes or Ali we are short of a frontline bowling option but the balance of the side is always going to struggle without a genuine allrounder to balance out the side. This is what I would go in with but I would concede that without Pope or Stokes it does look light on the batting front
1. Sibley
2. Crawley
3. Lawrence
4. Root
5. Bairstow
6. Butler
7. Woakes
8. Bess
9. Wood
10. Broad
11. Leach
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Probably swap Bairstow and Lawrence on the basis that Lawrence would be bowling a fair few overs of spin potentially.
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Would I be wrong in assuming Woakes will miss the first game as a result of him being in isolation? Other than that the above side might not be far off the truth. But it’ll depend on the pitches. I think normally 3 seamers might not be important, but by all accounts in recent times the Sri Lankan pitches have offered a little more to seamers than in past times. It’s at times like this when you appreciate the balance you get from Stokes. If Stokes was there I suspect 2 front line seamers would be picked and either Foakes or another spinner would get the nod.
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Probably swap Bairstow and Lawrence on the basis that Lawrence would be bowling a fair few overs of spin potentially.
And hes on debut
And Bairstow, a senior player, had runs at 3 last time he played in SL. Time for him to step up, plenty of chances in the Test arena now
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And hes on debut
And Bairstow, a senior player, had runs at 3 last time he played in SL. Time for him to step up, plenty of chances in the Test arena now
Looking ahead, when Pope and Stokes are back, 4-6 Looks fixed so 3 is the most obvious route into the team. I would prefer to see Lawrence given a go on this tour in that position.
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Looking ahead, when Pope and Stokes are back, 4-6 Looks fixed so 3 is the most obvious route into the team. I would prefer to see Lawrence given a go on this tour in that position.
Very hard to balance the team without Stokes as you have said, either too short on batting or light on bowling.
Foakes plays for me, more so in the subcontinent where it's got and humid, any chances that go down might cost us.
Agree on Bairstow, I understand why he has been selected as we are short on experience, he is almost certain to bat 3
I didn't know Lawrence could bowl, but even if it's a like for like batting spot I'd like to see him have a chance.
If England bin the Foakes idea, and Butler keeps and bats 7 there may be a spot opened for Lawrence. I don't think we will do that but you never know with selection
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Very hard to balance the team without Stokes as you have said, either too short on batting or light on bowling.
Foakes plays for me, more so in the subcontinent where it's got and humid, any chances that go down might cost us.
Agree on Bairstow, I understand why he has been selected as we are short on experience, he is almost certain to bat 3
I didn't know Lawrence could bowl, but even if it's a like for like batting spot I'd like to see him have a chance.
If England bin the Foakes idea, and Butler keeps and bats 7 there may be a spot opened for Lawrence. I don't think we will do that but you never know with selection
I have gone for 6 batsmen and 5 bowlers as i want Wood to play in these conditions but I can't see him as being able to play as a 4-man bowling attack. Guess work at this stage without having seen the pitch, but generally speaking wickets tend to he harder to come by in these conditions
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On another note I'm still surprised that Jennings has been omitted from these tours altogether, looked accomplished in those conditions last time...
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Looking ahead, when Pope and Stokes are back, 4-6 Looks fixed so 3 is the most obvious route into the team. I would prefer to see Lawrence given a go on this tour in that position.
Considering Crawley recently scored 267 at 3 I would say that spot is taken aswell.
Unless you are suggesting Burns is left out permanently?
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On another note I'm still surprised that Jennings has been omitted from these tours altogether, looked accomplished in those conditions last time...
Given they've only taken two top 3 players it seems madness to have left an opener with a good subcontinental record and a safe pair of hands out! Especially when you consider it wouldn't be too controversial leaving Jennings out for Burns in the summer even if Jennings got runs. Imagine the chaos if they do that to Bairstow...
Ali and Woakes out for the first test places Foakes in pole position to play. It'd be a hell of a time for Bracey to make some warmup game runs, especially as there's a definite danger of not having enough keepers in the side!
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Considering Crawley recently scored 267 at 3 I would say that spot is taken aswell.
Unless you are suggesting Burns is left out permanently?
Crawley is an opener. He has taken his chance when it has come up to bat at 3 but he will certainly move up to his favourite position in the longer term, perhaps sooner if he has a good winter. If whoever bats at 3 does well, then Burns may be under pressure to get his place back after a modest summer, if not then he will slot back in. Ultimately, if we are to improve as a test team, we need the same competition for batting spots as the white ball team has.
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I think Crawley has said his preferred position is 3 but he will bat anywhere.
It's been a difficult position for a couple of years for England if I'm not misquoting him he would like this position long term.
Not sure where he bats for Kent in long form cricket thou
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Crawley is an opener. He has taken his chance when it has come up to bat at 3 but he will certainly move up to his favourite position in the longer term, perhaps sooner if he has a good winter. If whoever bats at 3 does well, then Burns may be under pressure to get his place back after a modest summer, if not then he will slot back in. Ultimately, if we are to improve as a test team, we need the same competition for batting spots as the white ball team has.
He has previously said he prefers 3. But not too much difference in 3 or opening I guess.
However, throwing Lawrence in at 3 would be a strange call. He definitely doesn't bat that high for Essex nor for the Lions when i watched him do well last winter. I believe he was at 5 or 6 in that series.
Throw in the very alien conditions and debuting at 3 will be a tough gig!
My opinion - at the moment Englands first choice batting order anywhere outside Asia would be
Burns
Sibley
Crawley
Root
Stokes
Pope
I think England like Crawley at 3 and although they've had modest returns so far, two proper openers in Burns and Sibley
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Would love to see them find a way to bring Lawrence into the team long term, just think he looks such a classy, uncomplicated player. Bit of a nightmare for the selectors that both he and Pope would benefit from a run at 6 to establish themselves. IMO, Lawrence has the game to bat top 3 more so than Pope does.
Alternatively, they could go wildly left field and promote Stokes to 3 in a Kallis role, Root 4, Lawrence 5, Pope 6 with Crawley and Sibley opening so that my dream top 6 could take the field. Throw in Foakes keeping and then I'd realise I was dreaming 😂
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He has previously said he prefers 3. But not too much difference in 3 or opening I guess.
However, throwing Lawrence in at 3 would be a strange call. He definitely doesn't bat that high for Essex nor for the Lions when i watched him do well last winter. I believe he was at 5 or 6 in that series.
Throw in the very alien conditions and debuting at 3 will be a tough gig!
My opinion - at the moment Englands first choice batting order anywhere outside Asia would be
Burns
Sibley
Crawley
Root
Stokes
Pope
I think England like Crawley at 3 and although they've had modest returns so far, two proper openers in Burns and Sibley
Lawrence has been going in at 4 for his County. I do recall an interview with him during Lions call up when he recognised with Root cemented at 4, he would need to move up a place to bat at 3 to fulfil his goal of playing for England.
It is a very early assessment, but he looks to me to have the game to bat in that position. People talk of Pope moving up long term but he seems far better suited to me to batting at 5 or 6.
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Probably swap Bairstow and Lawrence on the basis that Lawrence would be bowling a fair few overs of spin potentially.
I'd be surprised if Lawrence did much bowling. He'd certainly be well behind Root.
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Would love to see them find a way to bring Lawrence into the team long term, just think he looks such a classy, uncomplicated player. Bit of a nightmare for the selectors that both he and Pope would benefit from a run at 6 to establish themselves. IMO, Lawrence has the game to bat top 3 more so than Pope does.
Alternatively, they could go wildly left field and promote Stokes to 3 in a Kallis role, Root 4, Lawrence 5, Pope 6 with Crawley and Sibley opening so that my dream top 6 could take the field. Throw in Foakes keeping and then I'd realise I was dreaming 😂
Pope is the genuine article he just needs an injury free period. You cannot be that good at his age and not make it to be a regular international, I think he's potentially as good as Root.
Lawrence is an interesting pick, don't know a great deal about him but he's on the tour and was around the team last summer so he's identified. He's young of course and the England side is slowly changing with younger players coming in.
There a lot of cricket coming up maybe rotation would give Lawrence a chance over the next few months. I really really don't want to start another Bairstow discussion but to read the interview today on BBC comes across as he has nothing to prove.
Perhaps that was not his intention but I'd like to see him take any mis understanding on interviews totally out of the equation and say he has everything to prove.
Which surely he must have, if not someone younger who knows that they have a lot of hard work ahead of them please. :)
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See there's an intra-squad game due. Do touring parties automatically take extra reserves nowadays? Why not just call it a 24 man squad, or whatever?
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I'd be surprised if Lawrence did much bowling. He'd certainly be well behind Root.
The way he bowled on the last Lions tour, I wouldn't be quite so sure. If they bring in a third front line spinner though then neither will bowl much at all.
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Let's hope Lawrence isn't another one of those that everyone thinks is great until he's actually in the team.
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You've all missed the obvious answer, Sibley and Leach to open with Crawley retaining his favoured position at 3. Everyone's a winner.
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Is 2021 the year where Root goes back to his best and usurps the rest of the Fab Four? Ah...
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Here are the wickets from the intra-squad warm up.
Anderson cleans up Buttler 1st ball with a beauty.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CJyJc6WBwRg/?igshid=19k0v8y8th31e (https://www.instagram.com/p/CJyJc6WBwRg/?igshid=19k0v8y8th31e)
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You know the wheels have come your innings when your opener bats at 1 and then again at 8! :)
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Let's hope Lawrence isn't another one of those that everyone thinks is great until he's actually in the team.
The two young batsmen who have come into the side most recently with big reputations have been Pope and Crawley and both have done as much as can be expected of them.
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Watched the wickets earlier, a few nice dismissals for the spinners. Would love to see one of the leggys get a Test here as a wildcard 3rd option. Rashid went last time as the 3rd spinner but still took 12 wickets over the 3 Tests.
The most wickets amongst seamers was Stokes with 5 from 3. Anderson took 1 from 2 matches!
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Think you can add Burns to the list of young batsmen who have done well, he's a bit older and perhaps not great but he's done alright.
We won't be replacing Strauss, Cook and Trott overnight, it's going to take time-same with any team.
Bairstow looks bolt on number 3 come the first test but Lawrence did himself some good with runs today.
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Press reports no place for Foakes, Butler to keep as before and a debut for Lawrence at 5 with Bairstow 3.
I don't actually know who wil bat 6 with no Ali and no Pope, even thou Pope is actually out there.
Maybe Butler will bat 6.
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Press reports no place for Foakes, Butler to keep as before and a debut for Lawrence at 5 with Bairstow 3.
I don't actually know who wil bat 6 with no Ali and no Pope, even thou Pope is actually out there.
Maybe Butler will bat 6.
Imagine it'll be Crawley, Sibley, Bairstow, Root, Lawrence, Buttler, Curran for the top 7. Probably Bess 8, then Leach and two pace bowlers from those on the tour making up the 11.
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Yes that does look like the side. I was pretty sure Foakes would play, he is going to have to wait until Butler is rotated and wants a rest, or retires.
England seem destined not to play the best keeper even in conditions most favourable to playing him.
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Yes that does look like the side. I was pretty sure Foakes would play, he is going to have to wait until Butler is rotated and wants a rest, or retires.
England seem destined not to play the best keeper even in conditions most favourable to playing him.
I would say that Jack Russell is the last English keeper to be selected by virtue of keeping ability alone and he often lost his place to improve the batting. James Foster is the best I have seen since Russell and despite a pretty respectable FC average, only played 7 tests
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I always liked Chris Read - always felt he was sold a bit short.
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I would say that Jack Russell is the last English keeper to be selected by virtue of keeping ability alone and he often lost his place to improve the batting. James Foster is the best I have seen since Russell and despite a pretty respectable FC average, only played 7 tests
Yes you're right, after Russell we moved to batsmen keepers, Stewart was probably the best of the lot.
I think England are missing out, the batting of keepers has improved, Foakes is a good bat as well as more likely to take the chances.
It would be a change of direction thou you're right, apart from the last SL tour, it's been Bairstow or Butler.
Having Foakes I just don't see the batting being weakened myself
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I always liked Chris Read - always felt he was sold a bit short.
I can understand once the decision was made to go with Prior as a top order batsman with the hope that he could improve his keeping as he went along that Foster and Read were overlooked, but I think that they were pretty unfairly treated by the selections of Geriant Jones and Tim Ambrose
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Yes you're right, after Russell we moved to batsmen keepers, Stewart was probably the best of the lot.
I think England are missing out, the batting of keepers has improved, Foakes is a good bat as well as more likely to take the chances.
It would be a change of direction thou you're right, apart from the last SL tour, it's been Bairstow or Butler.
Having Foakes I just don't see the batting being weakened myself
Bob Taylor is often mentioned as bring the best keeper ever to play for England but, with a first class average of 16, it isn't unreasonable to argue that he could struggle in the modern era to have a full county career let alone one at international level.
Whether this move away from the keeper as a genuine specialist to one expected to fill an all rounder role as a keeper and batsman is correct - it isn't impossible to use a Money ball style metric to work out whether the extra runs scored outweighs the runs conceded by missed chances- it would certainly go against modern orthodoxy.
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Bob Taylor is often mentioned as bring the best keeper ever to play for England but, with a first class average of 16, it isn't unreasonable to argue that he could struggle in the modern era to have a full county career let alone one at international level.
Just look at the lad Bates!
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Even in county cricket, there is a phobia of keepers who bat below 7 - Kulli rightly mentions Michael Bates, and I would also mention Andy Hodd, Colin Metson, Graham Kersey and I'm sure a few others. You even have counties converting batsmen into keepers, as Yorkshire have with Jonny Tattersall. It becomes compulsive-- even when England played six batsmen and had Bresnan, Swann and a pre-face-lift Broad amongst the bowlers, they went batsman rather than gloveman.
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An extended quarantine period for Moeen puts him out of the series-to be confirmed.
I think @Jimbo has the side right. Looks like Bess and Leach will have a lot of bowling to do over two matches.
England will not want any illness to Leach otherwise we have to turn to an untried spinner at test level.
Lawrence looking likely to make a debut at 5.
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Lawrence and Root will offer some additional spin options too I guess?
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I think Root may have to if conditions are as we expect(same as last time). Lawrence I don't know his standard of off spin but it may come in handy.
Good opportunity for Lawrence perhaps to make an impact with both bat and ball.
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Lawrence and Root will offer some additional spin options too I guess?
Hoping to see a bit of Lawrence's bowling, 11 wickets on the Lions tour of Aus suggests he's no mug.
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Hoping to see a bit of Lawrence's bowling, 11 wickets on the Lions tour of Aus suggests he's no mug.
Australian domestic players aren't renowned for their handling of spinners, but it is at least encouraging.
I've got a bad feeling about these games, the wheels are already half off the England side! Resting Stokes for a subcontinental tour looks a good plan when Moeen is available, and not even too bad with Woakes to cover, but with both out the balance is looking iffy. Bess and Leach will have to have an incredible couple of games if we're to stand a chance and both of them have barely sent a ball down this year. Would be great to see them bowl like they do for Somerset.
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The two young batsmen who have come into the side most recently with big reputations have been Pope and Crawley and both have done as much as can be expected of them.
Point taken.
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I can understand once the decision was made to go with Prior as a top order batsman with the hope that he could improve his keeping as he went along that Foster and Read were overlooked, but I think that they were pretty unfairly treated by the selections of Geriant Jones and Tim Ambrose
Read and Foster both massively improved as batsmen too.
Fully expecting Buttler to bat at no.6.
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Hoping to see a bit of Lawrence's bowling, 11 wickets on the Lions tour of Aus suggests he's no mug.
He has a very idiosyncratic action.
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25 minutes to get 3 overs in. This is disgraceful.
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Great start Eng!
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Good start from Bess ;)
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What an awful shot
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England have bowled really well this session, clear plans to each batsman and executed well. Mathews and Chandimal, Sri Lankas 2 best players, in pretty early. Now the hard work begins
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Leach looking in a different class to Bess.
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Not to jinx the fella, but I assume Moeen and Rashid would be superior to Bess?
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Think we can cut him some slack, hasn’t exactly got a lot of overs under his belt since the summer.
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Absolutely love watching SL - always so positive and fearless no matter what.
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What a daft shot from Chandimal, throwing the lower middle order under the bus a bit.
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Absolutely love watching SL - always so positive and fearless no matter what.
Im not sure the coach would feel the same way! Couple of ridiculous dismissals on day 1 of a Test match
Substitute fearless for brainless and you are bang on
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Not to jinx the fella, but I assume Moeen and Rashid would be superior to Bess?
Moeens form fell away in the last couple of years and Rashid was only ever going to be a stopgap wildcard in Test cricket.
Bess is far from the finished article but I dont mind England making the investment in a young spinner with potentially a decade ahead of him.
Leach has shown far better control today for sure
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Brilliant football skill from Jonny, first useful thing he's done in the test side for about two years
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Don’t agree with that ‘not out’ decision, surely there’s daylight between the bat and the ground when the bails were dislodged
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His bats up in the air, no? Not sure how that isn't out...
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Is that the worst 5fer ever?
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This is exactly like club cricket. Your opening bowlers get no luck at all. Then on comes the pie chucker and takes a 5fir. :o
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Is that the worst 5fer ever?
For quality of bowling? Maybe. But for pure gleeful, partisan entertainment I'm putting it right up there. I haven't laughed at test cricket in a while.
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Oh God what on Earth Crawley
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God that's awful from Crawley. Apparently this batting is contagious.
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Not playing an extra batter is looking a bit dicey now
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Not to jinx the fella, but I assume Moeen and Rashid would be superior to Bess?
England are clearly investing in Bess as a long term option as his bowling is very much a work in progress. He is sharp in the field and there is potential in his batting. I think Leech is going to be unlucky in that Bees will play ahead of him when only one spinner is required
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England are clearly investing in Bess as a long term option as his bowling is very much a work in progress. He is sharp in the field and there is potential in his batting. I think Leech is going to be unlucky in that Bees will play ahead of him when only one spinner is required
Think that depends on the balance of the side. If Curran/Woakes and Stokes are playing then Bess' batting isn't quite so important. Leach is clearly a much superior bowler at the minute and he's not useless with the bat nor is he an awful fielder in the style of Panesar.
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Root is such a wonderful player to watch
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Think that depends on the balance of the side. If Curran/Woakes and Stokes are playing then Bess' batting isn't quite so important. Leach is clearly a much superior bowler at the minute and he's not useless with the bat nor is he an awful fielder in the style of Panesar.
I also think who the seamers are is a factor. If we have some of our more injury prone combinations, the fact that Leach can reliably block up an end in a way Bess cannot has to be a factor - especially somewhere like Oz where there is precious little help.
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Think that depends on the balance of the side. If Curran/Woakes and Stokes are playing then Bess' batting isn't quite so important. Leach is clearly a much superior bowler at the minute and he's not useless with the bat nor is he an awful fielder in the style of Panesar.
I would prefer to see us play the better bowler- as I did did England were picking Ali when his bowling was a work in progress- but being realistic, just as the wicket keeper is viewed by his batting, England have been leaning this way for a while with the selection of the front line spinner
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Root is such a wonderful player to watch
I do feel that he gets slightly unfair treatment in England for a guy who sits 7th in our all time test runs scorers with a better average and having played less games than anyone else in the top 10. No doubt he would like to have converted more of those 50s but his consistency in posting a score is very high and he is always a great player to watch batting
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Not to jinx the fella, but I assume Moeen and Rashid would be superior to Bess?
My plan worked! ;) I had a big role in that 5-for. :D
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I do feel that he gets slightly unfair treatment in England for a guy who sits 7th in our all time test runs scorers with a better average and having played less games than anyone else in the top 10. No doubt he would like to have converted more of those 50s but his consistency in posting a score is very high and he is always a great player to watch batting
I was thinking about root today along similar lines, but I kept coming back to his status within the big 4/5 players, kept coming back to “50s don’t win you matches, 100s do.” Williamson, Smith and Kohli will win countless games for their side, and everyone knows Root is capable of the same, but he hasn’t showed that in a fair while now. That’s what makes him so frustrating for England fans I think.
But, not doubt a great player to watch and immensely talented
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I do feel that he gets slightly unfair treatment in England for a guy who sits 7th in our all time test runs scorers with a better average and having played less games than anyone else in the top 10. No doubt he would like to have converted more of those 50s but his consistency in posting a score is very high and he is always a great player to watch batting
Unfair treatment from whom?
Most England fans love Root! I dont think hes a natural skipper but as a batsman his Test and ODI record sits comfortably with any Englishman in the last 30 years. Just one thing - more hundreds please!
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@LEACHY48 and @alba caerulea have got it same as I think. Fab player, as good as we have had for years and still only 30 so maybe another 5 years of an England career. Gooch, KP,Cook,Root in no particular order.
I certainly want him to be up there with the best in the world and he hasn't shown that since being made Captain, if we could go back I wish someone else got the job so he can concentrate on getting big runs.
His conversion from 50 to 100 is no where near good enough to be at the top, the big 3 are quite a long way out in front.
Still a fabulous player in tests and 50 over cricket, these guys at the top set a very high bar indeed and Root is not up there with them.
I just hope we don't look back in a few years and regret holding back our best talent just so he could skipper the side-Captain is an important job but over estimated in the modern game IMO.
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I'd agree about his conversion rate in tests, in ODIs however I think Root's record stands up to just about everyone bar Kohli.
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Maybe I've a hunch but if he does get 3 figures tomorrow you'd hope it's the start of a monster year for him instead of 50-70 and out, would love to see some of those big scores like 2015-16
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I'd agree about his conversion rate in tests, in ODIs however I think Root's record stands up to just about everyone bar Kohli.
Totally right, he enjoys playing under Morgan who he has huge respect for.
Is it a coincidence he just has to work out how to pace the innings without any other decisions to be made I wonder.
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I was thinking about root today along similar lines, but I kept coming back to his status within the big 4/5 players, kept coming back to “50s don’t win you matches, 100s do.” Williamson, Smith and Kohli will win countless games for their side, and everyone knows Root is capable of the same, but he hasn’t showed that in a fair while now. That’s what makes him so frustrating for England fans I think.
But, not doubt a great player to watch and immensely talented
He’s not a natural captain. I think he would thrive if relieved of captaincy burden so he can just go into his bubble and accumulate masses of runs. Obviously that’s not possible if no viable alternative.
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He’s not a natural captain. I think he would thrive if relieved of captaincy burden so he can just go into his bubble and accumulate masses of runs. Obviously that’s not possible if no viable alternative.
Not disagreeing with that mate, I think giving him the captaincy was a terrible idea.
I just think he needs to find a way to win England games if he’s going to be considered truly great.
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Totally right, he enjoys playing under Morgan who he has huge respect for.
Is it a coincidence he just has to work out how to pace the innings without any other decisions to be made I wonder.
I think it's because he's very much a modern batsman, he likes to keep the score ticking over and doesn't do well with getting stuck on a score for long. Brilliant in ODIs, less so in Tests while still being very good.
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Bairstow gone to a nice delivery and decent catch. The bowling to Lawrence since then has been very friendly, 3 full tosses and counting
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Lawrence makes me want an Icon. ;)
I also really wish Root used someone other than NB, and went back to GM or something. I'm not saying that his runs would look better with a different bat, but his runs would totally look better with a classier bat. :D :D
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Lawrence might be scoring the easiest looking ton on debut
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Lawrence makes me want an Icon. ;)
I also really wish Root used someone other than NB, and went back to GM or something. I'm not saying that his runs would look better with a different bat, but his runs would totally look better with a classier bat. :D :D
I know what you mean about Root using NB and it is interesting when you go back through the brands used by England captains -
Cook - GN
Pietersen - Woodworm (at time of captaincy)
Strauss - GN
Flintoff - Woodworm
Trescothick - GM
Vaughan - GM
Hussain - GN
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I know what you mean about Root using NB and it is interesting when you go back through the brands used by England captains -
Cook - GN
Pietersen - Woodworm (at time of captaincy)
Strauss - GN
Flintoff - Woodworm
Trescothick - GM
Vaughan - GM
Hussain - GN
:)
I'm ever hopeful that GN or GM will snap him up. Root using a retro Gray Nics would be so cool!
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Alarm set just in time for Root to get his ton, well played certainly our best player of spin.
GM for me if they ever had the money to sponsor him, the Icon remains a favourite, and he scored a double ton(I think) with the old 6 model :)
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Top knock from Root, he can go on here and really nail this test match down
I know what you mean about Root using NB and it is interesting when you go back through the brands used by England captains -
Cook - GN
Pietersen - Woodworm (at time of captaincy)
Strauss - GN
Flintoff - Woodworm
Trescothick - GM
Vaughan - GM
Hussain - GN
Out of those KP and Flintoff should never have been appointed and Tres never was
GN always try to snap up England openers, which often turn into England captains. Odds on Crawley being a future captain?
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Just turned TMS on and they are talking about a strange incident where Root was given not out caught short leg. But Micky Arthur was complaining to the 3rd umpire!
Can someone explain what happened?
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To be fair, I imagine having both Stokes and Root on your sponsorship budget would be pretty painful.
GN hasn't really had an England star since Cook I guess.
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Just turned TMS on and they are talking about a strange incident where Root was given not out caught short leg. But Micky Arthur was complaining to the 3rd umpire!
Can someone explain what happened?
Root edged the ball into the ground but on the way up it hit his glove, and he was then caught. This is not out in the rule books, and so it was judged to be not out. But weirdly, the vastly experienced Mickey Arthur seemed to disagree and completely lost it. :o
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A ton for Root, 50 up for Lawrence and England dominating the game. Things you love to see.
Really pleased Root gets to 3 figures, the fact that so many people focus on his relatively poor 50 to 100 conversion rate as opposed to his ridiculously good rate of making 50 plus scores is a real shame and is more based on the fact that for years he's been surrounded by a very underperforming team who haven't been able to build on his consistent scoring.
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Whisper it quietly and I know it is only against an under par SL but this Test Squad is looking encouraging for the near future with bat & ball
My ongoing peev of GM stickers not accurately matching the shape of the bat that is actually being used has been replaced with a Chroma really is the same shape that pros use smugness
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Root edged the ball into the ground but on the way up it hit his glove, and he was then caught. This is not out in the rule books, and so it was judged to be not out. But weirdly, the vastly experienced Mickey Arthur seemed to disagree and completely lost it. :o
Oh ok, I wonder how many club umpires would give that 🤣
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Oh ok, I wonder how many club umpires would give that 🤣
I've definitely given worse decisions. :D
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This is starting to have the feel of one of those away Sunday games where the opposition side is no good, but they have a lovely ground and do an amazing tea. Half expecting Buttler to run out with a drink and remind Root that he might like to miss a straight one soon please.
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Good knock from Lawrence on debut
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Good knock from Lawrence on debut
Showed how good a prospect he is. Already imagining weird and wonderful permutations of the batting order to include him, Pope, Root, Stokes and Crawley...
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I've definitely given worse decisions. :D
Multiple times. In the same match. Including a run out where both the fielding team and our batsman decided it was so far not out that maybe I should be replaced.
As for the Root incident, I was watching with the sound off and thought he was out no question.
Probably time for me to either do the umpiring course or stick to doing the scorebook when we're batting.
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Root edged the ball into the ground but on the way up it hit his glove, and he was then caught. This is not out in the rule books, and so it was judged to be not out. But weirdly, the vastly experienced Mickey Arthur seemed to disagree and completely lost it. :o
Not for the first time Mickey Arthur kicking off - he’s done it with every side he’s coached
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Really positive few sessions with the bat for England - if not for Rory Burns - with Root looking imperious, Bairstow excellent last night and Lawrence calm and assured today. Accepted, there was some rubbish bowled at points, but it was refreshing to see that the "bat time" message was melding well with positivity, especially in the running.
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Really positive few sessions with the bat for England - if not for Rory Burns - with Root looking imperious, Bairstow excellent last night and Lawrence calm and assured today. Accepted, there was some rubbish bowled at points, but it was refreshing to see that the "bat time" message was melding well with positivity, especially in the running.
Bairstow looked good yesterday but I'm not sure a handy 40 odd is going to be enough to keep him in the side with Stokes, Pope and Burns available. Lawrence is a far more interesting question given that he looks to have a far higher ceiling as a Test player at this point.
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Bairstow looked good yesterday but I'm not sure a handy 40 odd is going to be enough to keep him in the side with Stokes, Pope and Burns available. Lawrence is a far more interesting question given that he looks to have a far higher ceiling as a Test player at this point.
They're different cases, aren't they - Bairstow's main value to England is in the here and now; he's one of our best players of spin, and one of our few players to have success with the bat in Australia (though oddly I did wonder yesterday whether he was becoming a sort of horses for courses selection, good in any conditions except his home ones) whereas anything we see from Lawrence in the next 18 months is hopefully the downpayment on the 8-10 years afterward.
As for "the side" I think for the next few months Burns is the guy who looks under pressure - he has not done anything in a year now, and has not looked to have huge options against spin in the past. Stokes obviously comes in for Curran rather than one of the batsmen, and I reckon depending on your viewpoint it becomes either YJB vs Lawrence for the number three berth or two from three for the combined 3 and 6.
There is also the longer term view of where this all leaves us around the Ashes - all of those named above probably make our strongest squad, unless Malan gets a deserved but perhaps now unlikely recall as a top class back foot player.
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Fair point about Bairstow vs spin, but I'm not convinced India are going to be preparing the kind of absurdly spin favouring tracks we might expect. Their pace attack, in terms of quality and depth, is ridiculous - Bumrah, Shami, Ishant, Siraj, Saini, Natarajan - so why wouldn't they make best use of it? Given that, Bairstow's well documented struggles against quality pace bowling could be a major factor in selectors decision making.
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Fair point about Bairstow vs spin, but I'm not convinced India are going to be preparing the kind of absurdly spin favouring tracks we might expect. Their pace attack, in terms of quality and depth, is ridiculous - Bumrah, Shami, Ishant, Siraj, Saini, Natarajan - so why wouldn't they make best use of it? Given that, Bairstow's well documented struggles against quality pace bowling could be a major factor in selectors decision making.
I imagine India will prepare the same pitches they always do - dry, hard on day one but wearing gradually as the game goes on so that day five can be a bit of a minefield - and will pick the same attack they always have of two quicks, two spinners and a fifth option to suit the conditions, because even if there is some room to manouvre for the groundsmen, it is still limited by the heat and relative lack of moisture at this time of year. They do have better resources in terms of pace bowling than they have previously enjoyed but in that area they still are no better than on par with the wealth of resources England can summon - Anderson, Broad, Woakes, Curran, Archer, Wood, Stone, Overton etc. so why rely on that when their options in terms of spinners and their batsmen's ability to play spin are so far ahead?
Though actually, I think "absurdly spin favouring tracks" is a misnomer anyway. You get those in Bangladesh and Sri Lanka, yes, where balls turn sharply from the offset and the bounce can be "interesting" but Indian tracks conditions, day five apart, tend to be far more about the process of attrition and wearing a batsman down than about wonder balls - hence 1) why Jadeja, who barely turns the ball at all, and Ashwin who flicks more than rips it but both attack the stumps are successful, but leggies are not and 2) why England have only won there when they had both the supreme concentration of Cook and the ability to score at pace of Pietersen at their respective peaks.
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There's Pope to come in if you are looking at this years tours and Ashes, he's a shoe in for me, as talented as Root I think.
I would like to see us develop with a younger batting line up, I wouldn't have Bairstow in a month of Sunday's with Malan left at home for these tours, and Joe Denly for that matter if we are talking experienced players.
Our line up may depend a lot on whether Crawley does end up a candidate for opening the batting, I'm not convinced myself if you don't open in County you can do it in tests.
He looks like he prefers to play his shots and 3 does seem a good position at the moment. If England see him having the ability and potential to open there may only be one of Sibley or Burns going forward.
It's early days of course but Lawrence has come in and taken his chances which is very pleasing.
It may of helped him that Silverwood was Essex coach, he knows the player and says he was ready to step up....so having worked with him before can be an advantage and disadvantage I suppose.
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Disagree about burns, he's a shoe in next to Sibley with Crawley at three
The only free space we have is at 6
Burns had 2 test hundreds and a 90odd last summer deserved a ton but got out selflessly setting target.
Our top 5 should be for the foreseeable:
Burns
Sibley
Crawley
Root
Stokes
Then one of pope/Lawrence
Keeper (so buttler)
Bairstow is the batsman that goes on all the tours as cover.. he shouldn't play
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Not to mention they only played 6 tests last summer so saying burns has not done anything in a year is harsh given it wasn't a normal year
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Not to mention they only played 6 tests last summer so saying burns has not done anything in a year is harsh given it wasn't a normal year
It's not untrue though. May not be Burns' fault but if you're not in the side and scoring runs, and somebody else is, then you slide down the pecking order.
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I also think Burns could be the one most in danger but I think the selectors like him as a proper opener and experienced leader. Realistically Lawrence is not going to be in the first choice 11 unless he stays in the side for India and hits a couple of tons. Had a good chance today but seemed to lose his head a bit after getting to 60.
Id love to see Malan in that Ashes squad. I went on the last Ashes tour and he was the only batsman, excluding the Cook marathon, that showed anything resembling a backbone in terms of taking the attack on. However, whilst I dont think Ed Smith is averse to a left field selection, Malan will have to have a significantly better Championship season this year than last to be considered.
I dont think Bairstow is in Englands stongest Test 11 in any conditions.
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Lawrence makes me want an Icon. ;)
I also really wish Root used someone other than NB, and went back to GM or something. I'm not saying that his runs would look better with a different bat, but his runs would totally look better with a classier bat. :D :D
I agree completely but I dont think he would ever go back to GM (but dont quote me on that)....I do know for certain that whilst at GM he used Kippax bats stickered up, as for a period GM weren't doing specific blades for him just the general Octane ones at the time in the best willow (used one for about 6 weeks, by far the best bat I will ever lay my hands on!). I believe GM found out about this and that was an issue...now at NB they arent bothered as they don't "make his bats" anyway and they understand that, same as Kohli at MRF etc....But I agree completely NB just arent classy! They may do themselves more justice if they did an all white range such as Kooka Ghost style.
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I also think Burns could be the one most in danger but I think the selectors like him as a proper opener and experienced leader. Realistically Lawrence is not going to be in the first choice 11 unless he stays in the side for India and hits a couple of tons. Had a good chance today but seemed to lose his head a bit after getting to 60.
Id love to see Malan in that Ashes squad. I went on the last Ashes tour and he was the only batsman, excluding the Cook marathon, that showed anything resembling a backbone in terms of taking the attack on. However, whilst I dont think Ed Smith is averse to a left field selection, Malan will have to have a significantly better Championship season this year than last to be considered.
I dont think Bairstow is in Englands stongest Test 11 in any conditions.
To be fair to Lawrence he batted in 30 degree heat and ridiculous humidity for 2 and a half hours, running lots of singles with Root. He's also only 23 and didn't have much time to acclimatise (not that many of them did, but some have been on the England strength and conditioning programmes for longer). I'll allow him a brain fart or two having posted a fluent 70 odd on debut!
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To be fair to Lawrence he batted in 30 degree heat and ridiculous humidity for 2 and a half hours, running lots of singles with Root. He's also only 23 and didn't have much time to acclimatise (not that many of them did, but some have been on the England strength and conditioning programmes for longer). I'll allow him a brain fart or two having posted a fluent 70 odd on debut!
Im not suggesting he was bad by any means, he looked flawless until he got to 60. And I was very impressed by his intent to score albeit against some shocking deliveries from the off and leg spinner early on. He just suddenly got frenetic and should have been out twice to bad shots before he was finally out to a decent ball. 60s wont keep him in this England side when all players are available. Hundreds might.
I dont buy the acclimatisation story, its modern cricket, hes been there as long as the rest of the players and been on various A tours previously. Sink or swim in that regard, the days of having weeks and plenty of warm up matches before Tests are long gone
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Id love to see Malan in that Ashes squad. I went on the last Ashes tour and he was the only batsman, excluding the Cook marathon, that showed anything resembling a backbone in terms of taking the attack on. However, whilst I dont think Ed Smith is averse to a left field selection, Malan will have to have a significantly better Championship season this year than last to be considered.
He got 332 runs in three games at 66 last year!! Given the Ashes squad might be massive he's got to be in with a shout. More generally it's good to see there's potential for pressure on the batting spots now, it's done wonders for the ODI side.
Forecast looks pretty poor for Galle, wonder how aggressive the declaration will be tomorrow!
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He got 332 runs in three games at 66 last year!! Given the Ashes squad might be massive he's got to be in with a shout. More generally it's good to see there's potential for pressure on the batting spots now, it's done wonders for the ODI side.
Forecast looks pretty poor for Galle, wonder how aggressive the declaration will be tomorrow!
I stand corrected, I forgot about that double ton! I remembered looking at scorecards and thinking he wasnt banging the door down but I reckon if he averages anywhere near that again he'll be on the plane
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Don't want to jinx him, but England haven't had a triple centurion since 1990...
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Bit naff from the lower end tbh
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Perera’s bat would make it on to the eBay tat page - with incredulous comments about fake SS stickers.
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Perera’s bat would make it on to the eBay tat page - with incredulous comments about fake SS stickers.
Thirimanne’s pads look rubbish as well! Black piping and tape over some of the logos I think - must be using ‘off the shelf’ SS’s. Considering the SS player issue pads he could have got that’s poor form in my book - no excuse for international players!
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Perera’s bat would make it on to the eBay tat page - with incredulous comments about fake SS stickers.
His gloves look class though!
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His gloves look class though!
Perera has great pads and gloves but a dodgy looking bat, and thirimanne the reverse 😂
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Bit naff from the lower end tbh
Very strange to promote Leach over Broad if they'd decided they were going after some quick runs.
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Laurence looks like that 15 year old kid that comes out in a league game and looks completely out of his depth but inexplicably hits a 50 full of weird shots.
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Laurence looks like that 15 year old kid that comes out in a league game and looks completely out of his depth but inexplicably hits a 50 full of weird shots.
Lawrence looked very assured for the vast majority of his innings, not sure what you're basing this on?
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Lawrence looked very assured for the vast majority of his innings, not sure what you're basing this on?
Don't worry about it mate, always watching something different to the rest of us
Lawrence looked really assured until he got to 60, think he got the 100 in his mind and focussed on that rather than just batting imo
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Laurence looks like that 15 year old kid that comes out in a league game and looks completely out of his depth but inexplicably hits a 50 full of weird shots.
I dont think he looked out of his depth at any point, quite the opposite in fact - very comfortable. Just got a bit giddy when he got to 60.
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This is some filth from the spinners
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Test match cricket isn’t the place to get overs under your belt. Leach selection is a very poor one.
Better to give root a go
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I dont think he looked out of his depth at any point, quite the opposite in fact - very comfortable.
Something noone seems to have picked up on with Lawrence was that it would have been really easy on debut to try and overhit some of the filthier stuff he faced yesterday, but he didn't do that. He was calm and took what was on offer.
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Great take from buttler
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Test match cricket isn’t the place to get overs under your belt. Leach selection is a very poor one.
Better to give root a go
Problem is where else does Leach get overs in? No domestic cricket available and he's not going to get picked for franchise stuff abroad. He's England's best spinner and Bess, despite the fivefer, has shown he's not there yet. They're going to need Leach in good nick to compete in India so not sure the selectors had much choice.
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Not sure why Lawrence wasn’t thrown the ball, he’s pretty handy.
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Problem is where else does Leach get overs in? No domestic cricket available and he's not going to get picked for franchise stuff abroad. He's England's best spinner and Bess, despite the fivefer, has shown he's not there yet. They're going to need Leach in good nick to compete in India so not sure the selectors had much choice.
Leach is the better bowler, despite Bess 5 wickets he could bowl a lot better another day and get none for.
We do indeed need Leach he could well come more into the game if/when SL bat again.
No one seems to mention Broad, 3 wickets first innings and fantastic control in the second innings, he seems to be getting better even when conditions are against him.
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Leach is the better bowler, despite Bess 5 wickets he could bowl a lot better another day and get none for.
We do indeed need Leach he could well come more into the game if/when SL bat again.
No one seems to mention Broad, 3 wickets first innings and fantastic control in the second innings, he seems to be getting better even when conditions are against him.
Broad has been pretty outstanding, based on this performance he could be key in India. If he can really dry up the scoring it would let the spinners go on the attack, plus he's IMO the match of any of the Indian quicks in terms of nous and skill.
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I'd be surprised if Lawrence did much bowling. He'd certainly be well behind Root.
;)
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I don’t think it really matters who is the better between Leach and Bess. It’s pretty clear that neither of them are international class at present. Root out bowled both of them. I’d rather have Moeen in the side, and hopefully he’ll be back in for the 2nd test now his stint in solitary confinement has come to an end.
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I don’t think it really matters who is the better between Leach and Bess. It’s pretty clear that neither of them are international class at present. Root out bowled both of them. I’d rather have Moeen in the side, and hopefully he’ll be back in for the 2nd test now his stint in solitary confinement has come to an end.
Definitely would have Moeen in over Bess at the minute. I think Leach at his best offers more control and different angles as a left armer.
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I don’t think it really matters who is the better between Leach and Bess. It’s pretty clear that neither of them are international class at present. Root out bowled both of them. I’d rather have Moeen in the side, and hopefully he’ll be back in for the 2nd test now his stint in solitary confinement has come to an end.
I think it's a certainty Moeen would of been in the first test as first pick, probably in the batting position just before the keeper.
That would of given England another option either bowling or batting, ie e Stokes role. Lawrence probably could of still played and maybe Leach and Bess, I'm not sure we need Broad,Wood and Curran as 3 seamers in the conditions we have to play on.
For some reason I don't quite understand myself, the Sri Lankans seem to of extended Mo's quarantine period which means if he does play in the second test it will be will be with no practice and no training.
I think he's been ruled out already.
Moeen I've always though a bit of a square peg in a round hole, in England a low order batter and sole spinner who may or may not be our best spin option....but if you look at his stats they compare pretty well with any of our spinners plus he can bat, and has scored us vital runs from number 8.
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Moeen shouldn't be anywhere near the side... End of
His form over the past 2 years has been poor he took time out needs to prove himself
We berated the selectors for picking bairstow without proving himself yet we all want mo back...
Our best spin option is leach.. batting shouldn't come into it u less it's mo Vs curran
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England have already said Mo wont be available for the 2nd Test. Not quite sure why if hes allowed back around the squad
Leach is actually a very good bowler as his test average of under 30 indicates. Certainly capable of holding an end at the very least. He is very rusty, quite understandably, but will be very important in the 2nd Test here and even more so in India. So good that hes getting overs in.
There is no magic fix to the England spinner problem while the Championship takes its current form. They simply dont get the overs or the pitches. No coincidence that both these guys had success at Somerset who have purposely left their square very dry in the last 4/5 years.
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Agree to a certain extent. What have they done at Essex because regardless of eligibility for England the best spinner in recent years is Simon Harmer.
He is outstanding, you could make an argument he is not only the best spinner but the best bowler in the whole CC.
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Chelmsford offers alot aswell but no doubt Harmer is superb.
Most grounds are favourable to seam bowling, Young spinners often get left out for an extra medium pace seamer who will never threaten to play international cricket. Get the pitches right and spinners are crucial and suddenly your 77mph dobber becomes cannon fodder
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Stop playing the bulk of championship cricket in April and September!
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Should Graeme Swann be involved?
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Best English spinner since ive been watching cricket by quite a distance. Doesn't come across as Coach material unfortunately!
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Best English spinner since ive been watching cricket by quite a distance. Doesn't come across as Coach material unfortunately!
Coach no, but I could see him being useful in a consultancy role.
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The fact he actively complains that he hasn’t been asked by ECB to be a coach/consultant says enough for me. Although he might be right the fact he’s mentioned it multiple times suggests a hint of self importance.
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Got this text 2nd hand from an ex first class spinner:-
Jack Leach goes past perpendicular when he releases the ball so will cause inconsistency and Bess action is not repeatable and he does not spin the ball. Play Parkinson these conditions and match situation would have suited him down to the ground.
In my opinion, Bess and Leach were very poor today. If you can't consistently land the ball on the spot you shouldn't be playing test cricket. Not a fan of Lyon at he has 400 wickets by sticking it in the general area on a consistent basis.
England had a better balanced team last time out. Stokes, broad or anderson, curran or wood to bowl seam. Leach, mo and Rashid as the spinners. Batting down to 8 or 9 and 3 seamers, 3 spinners + root.
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Don’t blame England not wanting Swann around their set up. From a few ex players (who weren’t part of his little group), he came across as a rubbish bloke/bully. Think he’s earning plenty from commentating for star sports anyway
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We always seem to struggle for a world-class spinner. Swann was an exception. I hope that changes!
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Bess keeps taking wickets!
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Lawrence looked very assured for the vast majority of his innings, not sure what you're basing this on?
Eh? I didn't say he didn't
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Spinners finally breaking thru, phew!
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Got this text 2nd hand from an ex first class spinner:-
Jack Leach goes past perpendicular when he releases the ball so will cause inconsistency and Bess action is not repeatable and he does not spin the ball. Play Parkinson these conditions and match situation would have suited him down to the ground.
How much control would Parkinson give? Most leggies are notorious for lack of control or consistently landing it in the right spot.
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Great work from Jos!!!
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Eh? I didn't say he didn't
"Laurence looks like that 15 year old kid that comes out in a league game and looks completely out of his depth", what did you mean by that then? 🤔
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How much control would Parkinson give? Most leggies are notorious for lack of control or consistently landing it in the right spot.
Let's separate a few things out. The England spinners have issues and playing Parkinson might have helped in the situation. Much as we played Rashid last time, having variation and more than 2 bowlers in your spin department is just as important on turning wickets as playing 4 seamers at home.
My comments about them not being able to bowl in the same spot is another observation, not related to the Parkinson comment as such but if the fingers could do the basics then we could play a leggie.
From what i saw today our spinners did bowl better and a bit quicker. That said i was also watching the big bash at the same time!
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We really aren't making this easy for ourselves
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"Laurence looks like that 15 year old kid that comes out in a league game and looks completely out of his depth", what did you mean by that then? 🤔
I meant he reminded me of that situation. He looks about 15, he has a funky technique, he doesn't look like he's been coached. You might expect him to last about 5 balls, but like the kid in my example, clearly it works for him.
I said the same thing on our club WhatsApp and everyone understood and agreed, because every club cricketer had been in that situation where a kid with an odd technique scores runs against them.
I assumed users of this forum would also have played enough cricket to recognise the reference.
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Oh for God sake
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Bairstow's head has gone
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It's very nervy, glad we not chasing anything over 100.
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Well, so far we've had an awful leave, an awful short and...you guessed it.
Quite calm for the last half hour mind. England may even be the more disappointed at going off right now.
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First time two Engand spinners have taken a 5-for in the same match since 1982.
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It doesn't sound like the pitch is really going yet which will help us, I'd expect Bairstow to know what to do in that situation but Lawrence showing signs of a good temperament and certainly doesn't look like a rookie with no games behind him.
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Dan Lawrence was in the Essex system from the age of 8 or 9, so it's unlikely he never received any coaching. But he also grew up on a cricket ground, whiich meant he'd have had plenty of opportunity to work things out for himself.
I'm amazed so many cricket fans don't see players until they play a Test match.
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Dan Lawrence was in the Essex system from the age of 8 or 9, so it's unlikely he never received any coaching. But he also grew up on a cricket ground, whiich meant he'd have had plenty of opportunity to work things out for himself.
I'm amazed so many cricket fans don't see players until they play a Test match.
Personally think it's quite impressive that Lawrence has stuck with a technique that works for him when a lot of coaches will have looked at it and wanted to change it. That kind of confidence in his method bodes pretty well for a good test career.
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Maybe we should give the coaches credit for allowing him to be himself?
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It doesn't sound like the pitch is really going yet which will help us, I'd expect Bairstow to know what to do in that situation but Lawrence showing signs of a good temperament and certainly doesn't look like a rookie with no games behind him.
It was odd - for about six overs it ragged, then it seemed to just stop. At this point, you would expect that these two plus maybe Buttler to account for a great ball would be enough.
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Maybe we should give the coaches credit for allowing him to be himself?
Yeah, that's a good point also. Hasn't always been the way coaching has gone in England (Anderson's bowling action for example) so positive if there's a move to embracing non-textbook techniques that work.
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Dan Lawrence was in the Essex system from the age of 8 or 9, so it's unlikely he never received any coaching. But he also grew up on a cricket ground, whiich meant he'd have had plenty of opportunity to work things out for himself.
I'm amazed so many cricket fans don't see players until they play a Test match.
Be realistic, how would we have seen him? It's not like Essex play a lot of televised games.
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English cricket has a history of messing spinners around.
Give the guys a chance and they have a half a chance of succeeding.
It’s the classic situation where the pundits and armchair experts who say he can’t land it, he bowls too many bad balls, bowls it too slowly, releases it past the perpendicular etc Doesn’t help when they get dropped after a handful of games.
Murali didn’t have a classic action but did ok. Leach has a good record and if he feels comfortable in the environment, I think he could do well. Bess to me looks like a decent club cricketer who gives it his all and gets dirty whites.
Virdy looks decent to me as an offie from what I’ve seen- has a nice action and gives it a rip. Haven’t seen enough of Parkinson.
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Bess looks like he's been made to run/walk through cones.
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Lets be realistic - we've got 2 callow spinners, who haven't played much First Class cricket recently, let alone international cricket.
On a pitch offering much help, neither put it in the right place often enough, but both got better the more overs they bowled - and that's the key thing - they won't get any better unless they bowl more overs in the right environment. This is the perfect series to let them bowl plenty, and learn from mistakes.
I feel Leach grasped what was needed much more than Bess and improved through today - Bess, I'm still not sure about, I don;t think he's consistently threatening enough for this level of cricket - but hey, he need's the next test to show us all he's learnt something.
As for Swann, I think there is value in recently retired or still current senior players coaching. I think they understand far more about modern cricket than guys who stopped 10 years ago - the game moves on.
Dickhead or not, why not get Swann in with these guys under the watchful eye of a bowling coach and let him give them the benefit of his experience? And whilst we're at it, get Anderson in with Robinson and Mahmood, Rashid in with the leggies, and Trott/Bell in with Sibley / Crawley?
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The problem Bess has is that his action is not repeatable, so even the great balls seem to occur largely by accident. He's got potential, but someone like Swann would probably do him a lot of good.
He will get the second test. But - results be damned - I'd love to see them give Virdi a go. He may be a worse all round cricketer than Monty or Tuffers, but the kid is brilliant as a spinner, and his action repeats beautifully.
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Well it comes back to the question - on a ragging pitch, do you want someone who can consistently put it on the right place, or a maverick full of all sorts of variation.
In an ideal world, you would have a metronome (Monty) and a maverick (Swanny)
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The problem Bess has is that his action is not repeatable, so even the great balls seem to occur largely by accident. He's got potential, but someone like Swann would probably do him a lot of good.
He will get the second test. But - results be damned - I'd love to see them give Virdi a go. He may be a worse all round cricketer than Monty or Tuffers, but the kid is brilliant as a spinner, and his action repeats beautifully.
Virdi needs to put the same effort into all his cricket as he does into his bowling if the stories about his fitness issues are to be believed. Definitely looks like he has the requisite ability as a bowler to be a success.
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Leach is a much better bowler than bess, who is clearly over coached and mainly picked because he's a good lad. Neither of them have much variation, subtle or otherwise.
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Well it comes back to the question - on a ragging pitch, do you want someone who can consistently put it on the right place, or a maverick full of all sorts of variation.
In an ideal world, you would have a metronome (Monty) and a maverick (Swanny)
Swann was probably nearer a metronome than a maverick, as a bowler anyway.
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Swann was probably nearer a metronome than a maverick, as a bowler anyway.
Agree with that, he has a lot of revs on the ball but also had a good non spinning one which is absolutely key and was very accurate.
Leach said after the innings he adjusted his pace to the wicket and ended up bowling better as the game went on, that's why I think he is the best we have, if it's turning a lot, land it at decent pace in and around the right spot. If it's not turning try and keep the run rate down, which he does generally.
Bess is not there yet but England want to keep him as he may well get better, he is also a good fielder and has potential to be a good number 8 batsman.
You are then in an area looking at the overall package not just the spin part. That's I guess where and why Moeen is wanted back as quick as possible by England.
I'm absolutely certain had Mo been available he would be in before Leach and Bess in this test match and the next. I think leach is the most likely to do the job wanted in these matches, Moeen has a record that is pretty good and it's hard to argue against that but IMO Leach is the best we have and has been whenever he has played.
For me he is miles out in front
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Swann, and to a lesser extent Panesar, were once in a generation talents when it comes to English spinners; we won't see anyone even close to their level for quite some time, maybe never the way the domestic structure treats them.
Said it before and I am biased, but I'd love to see Virdi get a go at some point, and whilst he's still very young he seems to have his gameplan in a much better place; he will always go for a few runs, but he's an attacking bowler with a wonderful action. As mentioned above, seemed to have fitness issues in 2019, but after a kick up the (No Swearing Please) from Alec Stewart, seems to be in a much better place.
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Virdi needs to put the same effort into all his cricket as he does into his bowling if the stories about his fitness issues are to be believed. Definitely looks like he has the requisite ability as a bowler to be a success.
He is a tad portly, I'll grant you. But i'd rather give a few quick singles away than a four ball an over.
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He is a tad portly, I'll grant you. But i'd rather give a few quick singles away than a four ball an over.
Fitness is an easy one to work on, his fielding and batting will take more effort and hopefully he's willing to put that work in. One of the things I love about Leach is his work ethic, Virdi could learn a thing or two from him. That said, there's no doubt Virdi is a serious bowling prospect.
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Professional job done.
94 runs in the match for Lawrence, 82 for Bairstow.
Here's hoping Sibley and Crawley get going soon too!
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None of us really know anything of Amar Virdi's work ethic. All we know is that a couple of seasons ago he was left out of a Surrey team for being unfit.
Sky quite rightly highlighted how little bowling England's spinners, particularly Leach, had done in the past year.
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Leach bowled a lot better as the game went on which is a good sign.
Virdi may be a good prospect but if he is a non batting bowler as I think he is it's going to take a lot to get in the current set up.
We've seen England want more than just one discipline for a while now, Leach can hold an end up and is half decent with the bat, Bess looks like he could score runs from 8 but I don't think is as good as Leach bowling.
Whether that criteria is right or wrong England have gone with it for a while now. Hence wanting Ali on is tour and playing asap-potential runs with the bat in Asia would count for a lot (despite his poor form of the last couple of years)
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there'll be some changes next test right?
who do we think will make the xi?
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Who will? I suspect Anderson and Stone for Broad and Wood, despite Broad having been magnificent.
Who should. OK, I'd like a look at Virdi - we need another spin option for India and leg spin never does well there. I'd go with him ahead of Anderson.
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interesting
no changes on the batting front then?
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interesting
no changes on the batting front then?
I'm not sure there are any options are there?
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Sri Lanka played a lot better in the second half of the game, they should be better in the second test.
I think Wood will be rotated/rested.. And Anderson will come in for him. I'm absolutely not leaving or resting Broad I thought he was superb in both innings.
Curran gives an allrounder and a back up so we have 3 seamers.....maybe one too many. We could bring in another spinner for him but I don't think we will.
Just the one change I reckon, could be wrong...
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interesting
no changes on the batting front then?
I dont think we can make any...
Unless you're thinking Foakes in as a specialist batter which would be awesome :) :)
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I dont think we can make any...
Unless you're thinking Foakes in as a specialist batter which would be awesome :) :)
Buttler could be relegated to the third best keeper in the side
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Buttler could be relegated to the third best keeper in the side
Give Jos his due, he was pretty good in this test.
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We keep saying we need more spin options in India... Why? It's more seamer friendly than it's ever been, it won't turn as much as it does in Sri Lanka
For the second test Anderson for broad, stone for wood
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Give Jos his due, he was pretty good in this test.
He was that is true, his bar as a keeper is on the low side, he is a far far better batsman than a keeper.
Maybe some moisture around and the outfield was pretty green helped the pitch stay together, it didn't really 'go' like we have seen before, the second test may see quicker spin it's hard to say.
Not saying keeping on turning pitches is easy because it definatley isn't, but there wasn't much that consistently really turned and that's when it becomes difficult, or keeping to a leggie.
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Give Jos his due, he was pretty good in this test.
Low bar, but yes, he had one of his better games. He is still nowhere near the level of Foakes, Bairstow or Bracey for that matter.
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Dust bowl expected to give Sri Lanka best home advantage.
They will play 1 seamer we should not play 3.
So it’s 3 spinners for me.
Spinner in for Wood... Amar Virdi if Mo isn’t fit to play
Anderson in for Broad
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We keep saying we need more spin options in India... Why? It's more seamer friendly than it's ever been, it won't turn as much as it does in Sri Lanka
The heat? The fact that there is little help for seamers in the test pitches? The broken surfaces on day five?
It doesn't mean we need 3 in the side - India tend to field 2 with three seamers - but we need one more in the squad as if nowt else we don't on present form want to bank on getting four games out of Bess.
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The heat? The fact that there is little help for seamers in the test pitches? The broken surfaces on day five?
It doesn't mean we need 3 in the side - India tend to field 2 with three seamers - but we need one more in the squad as if nowt else we don't on present form want to bank on getting four games out of Bess.
Gotcha, thank you!
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I think Ali has to play in the next test just to give him overs so that he can be considered for selection in India.
Can't see any reason to change the batting one up
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Give Jos his due, he was pretty good in this test.
He even got his first Test stumping!
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Low bar, but yes, he had one of his better games. He is still nowhere near the level of Foakes, Bairstow or Bracey for that matter.
Haven't seen much of Bracey, but Buttler is definitely nowhere near Foakes as a keeper. IMO not much between Bairstow and Buttler with the gloves, both reasonably competent without being impressive.
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IMO the order of keeping ability goes:
Foakes
Bracey
Buttler - Bairstow
We of course know that it doesn’t matter when it comes to selection though. I am a keeper though so biased 🤫
Don’t want to speak way way too soon but if these two tours put a spanner in the works of Sibley’s career - would Bracey come into keep and open the batting?
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Haven't seen much of Bracey, but Buttler is definitely nowhere near Foakes as a keeper. IMO not much between Bairstow and Buttler with the gloves, both reasonably competent without being impressive.
Mike Atherton was good on this. To the effect that neither is great, but Bairstow makes way fewer howlers.
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IMO the order of keeping ability goes:
Foakes
Bracey
Buttler - Bairstow
We of course know that it doesn’t matter when it comes to selection though. I am a keeper though so biased 🤫
Don’t want to speak way way too soon but if these two tours put a spanner in the works of Sibley’s career - would Bracey come into keep and open the batting?
Not convinced keeping is compatible with top order batting to the best of your ability. Look at Sangakkara's average when keeping and when not. The physical and mental effort of doing both is going to stop players from excelling at either as they might have.
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Not convinced keeping is compatible with top order batting to the best of your ability. Look at Sangakkara's average when keeping and when not. The physical and mental effort of doing both is going to stop players from excelling at either as they might have.
Also look at how almost every batsman/keeper has an average that tails off markedly as the game moves thru first, second, third and fourth innings, even when batting 7.....
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If England are going to be playing 2-3 spinners in India, then I think playing a specialist keeper is a must. Leave Buttler and Bairstow to concentrate on their batting, as if England are going to do anything in India they are going to have to do a LOT of batting.
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If England are going to be playing 2-3 spinners in India, then I think playing a specialist keeper is a must. Leave Buttler and Bairstow to concentrate on their batting, as if England are going to do anything in India they are going to have to do a LOT of batting.
Do they both get in as specialist batsmen in India though?
Bairstow hasn't shown he's overcome his weakness against top quality pace bowling of which India seemingly have limitless reserves.
Buttler could conceivably bat at 6 but I'd rather have Lawrence/Pope in as a specialist 6 with a top 5 of presumably Burns, Sibley, Crawley, Root and Stokes.
If Foakes comes in that's number 7 spot taken, AN All-rounder at 8, specialist bowlers at 9, 10 and 11. Not sure where the JBs fit in to that team.
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Do they both get in as specialist batsmen in India though?
Bairstow hasn't shown he's overcome his weakness against top quality pace bowling of which India seemingly have limitless reserves.
Buttler could conceivably bat at 6 but I'd rather have Lawrence/Pope in as a specialist 6 with a top 5 of presumably Burns, Sibley, Crawley, Root and Stokes.
If Foakes comes in that's number 7 spot taken, AN All-rounder at 8, specialist bowlers at 9, 10 and 11. Not sure where the JBs fit in to that team.
I certainly think Jonny does, and would possibly even make an argument for Buttler - I know India have some good pace bowlers, but the conditions still mean they will not get huge amounts of movement, and we know they are two of our better players of spin. That said, I suspect it is all a moot point because it sounds like England intend to take seperate, or at least partially seperate squads for the first two and last two tests!
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I think if you put Lawrence or Pope ahead of them at this stage it looks a fairly inexperienced top order. Burns, Sibley and Crawley aren't hugely experienced, so huge could be a lot of pressure on Root and Stokes, then a fairly inexperienced Pope or Lawrence at 6.
I personally think opening spots could be more of the issue tho. Burns and Sibley don't massively convince me that they'll be good enough long term, but we'll see. I could see Crawley staying there.
Great that we have options tho. Future looks good batting wise!
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I think if you put Lawrence or Pope ahead of them at this stage it looks a fairly inexperienced top order. Burns, Sibley and Crawley aren't hugely experienced, so huge could be a lot of pressure on Root and Stokes, then a fairly inexperienced Pope or Lawrence at 6.
I personally think opening spots could be more of the issue tho. Burns and Sibley don't massively convince me that they'll be good enough long term, but we'll see. I could see Crawley staying there.
Great that we have options tho. Future looks good batting wise!
Sibley looks good against pace, may just be that he doesn't open in the subcontinent going forward.
Burns is probably slightly more of a worry because his technique is so dependent on everything working smoothly and I'm not sure how he can do that without much match sharpness. When he gets it right though he's got heaps of FC experience, he's a leader and a great slip catcher.
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Yeah he has, but can't say I've been convinced by him at Test level consistently. Hopefully they'll both prove to be good, solid opening bats at this level but not sure they're there yet. Which is why I'd be hesitant to throw to many more younger/less experienced players into a series in India. Although Lawrence looked good and Pope obviously has class, so neither would be a leftfield selection. Just maybe more of a risk?
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Going by how the Aussies have done, I'd say it's probably just as much of a risk to stick with players who haven't shown any signs of really kicking on at Test level though. Bairstow and Buttler, IMO, have had more than enough chances to crack test cricket and haven't convinced long term. I see way more potential long term upside in Foakes, Pope, Lawrence.
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You could well be right mate. I'd stick with Bairstow though, I'm a fan and hopefully he's sorted a few technical issues. If not, then I'd go with Pope at 6 I think.
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hopefully he's sorted a few technical issues.
Judging by the clip of him vs Anderson in the warmup match, his issues defending vs pace are very much still there. Different player vs spin though.
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Yeah he has, but can't say I've been convinced by him at Test level consistently. Hopefully they'll both prove to be good, solid opening bats at this level but not sure they're there yet.
I think our three relatively experienced top order players all have some proving to do against spin. Sibley it is perhaps a little harsh to signal out at this stage for two dismissals - the first was a slight technical glitch that he could work on the second a bare misjudgement that lets face it can happen. Burns has had more issues in his Test career to date with spin, had a poor end to the season and is no longer in possession but there is a lot of upside with him - he has shown a shed load of courage and application so far, and it is fair to say that his being left handed is also an advantage (though people criticise Bairstow and Buttler's averages and Burns has the lowest of any of our batsmen from a now reasonable sample size). Crawley...like Sibley will find it easier in India where the spinners do not routinely take the new ball.
For me, whilst all three might play the first test in England next Summer, they are fighting for at most two spots for the rest of the winter. Root, Bairstow, Stokes are our best three players of spin, in that order, and I think if we are honest Buttler, Lawrence and Foakes come next (Pope I just have not seen play that much, and I am not convinced his shoulder will let him take part)
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Judging by the clip of him vs Anderson in the warmup match, his issues defending vs pace are very much still there. Different player vs spin though.
Was it not Butler who Anderson cleaned up in the warm up match? Tbf tho, there's no shame in that!
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Jos Buttler seems like a very nice bloke
Most of the cricketing world sees him as a freakishly talented with the bat regardless of format
Pant has just demonstrated with aplomb that it is not always the best gloveman that gets the gig in Test Cricket and EXACTLY why batting strength matters.
In fact I would argue it is rarely the best pure keeper that gets the gloves in modern cricket, even at County level, perhaps BJ Watling as the exception, but he's also pretty handy with a stick to be fair.
So why the incessant criticism?
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Jos Buttler seems like a very nice bloke
So why the incessant criticism?
Interesting question. The two JBs are the most polarising players in discussions on this forum, and amongst cubbies in general. Yet you hear the experts who played test cricket both on Sky and in the print media and the almost unanimous opinion is that both are in our top seven batsmen and should be locked in certs.
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Don’t think you can compare Buttler vs Pant in red ball cricket. The Indian chap averages over 50 in first class cricket and he’s the fifth youngest to score a red ball 300.
Buttler is a one day master but he’s a work in progress against the red ball.
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Don’t think you can compare Buttler vs Pant in red ball cricket. The Indian chap averages over 50 in first class cricket and he’s the fifth youngest to score a red ball 300.
Buttler is a one day master but he’s a work in progress against the red ball.
And yet Saha got the gloves in the first test.
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And yet Saha got the gloves in the first test.
Being a better keeper went out the window when they got rolled for 30 odd.
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You could well be right mate. I'd stick with Bairstow though, I'm a fan and hopefully he's sorted a few technical issues. If not, then I'd go with Pope at 6 I think.
Is it a technical issue he can fix? Or is it such an ingrained part of his game from white ball cricket that he'll never be able to fix it? I would say he's incredibly comparable to Shane Watson in that regard. They both love/d to plant the front foot and really drive hard at the ball, it meant for both you always felt if the bowler went full and straight they would either go for a boundary or they'd get a wicket. What is their strength, particularly in white ball cricket, is also their weakness, particularly in red ball cricket. The only difference is that Watson shuffled across more and played much closer to his front pad which is why he was always out LBW whereas Bairstow prefers to play with more of a gap to allow a better swing through the ball which is why he gets bowled instead.
Don't get me wrong, I like Bairstow a lot. The energy he brings to the team is fantastic and he's always someone that seems to turn up in a chase. Stokes is ofcourse remembered for that famous chase at Headingley but it was Bairstow who provided the energy and willingness to be bold that swung the momentum in the morning after the Aussies had been all over Root and Stokes. But he will never change, he'll drive England to some real highs and will be a big factor in England falling to some real lows just like he has throughout his test career. The question is, as it has always been, is there finally someone more consistent who can take England to the same highs without having the serious lows? And I think Pope has earned the chance to have a long go at proving he can, and if Lawrence keeps playing well I think he will also have earned that too.
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Is it a technical issue he can fix? Or is it such an ingrained part of his game from white ball cricket that he'll never be able to fix it? I would say he's incredibly comparable to Shane Watson in that regard. They both love/d to plant the front foot and really drive hard at the ball, it meant for both you always felt if the bowler went full and straight they would either go for a boundary or they'd get a wicket. What is their strength, particularly in white ball cricket, is also their weakness, particularly in red ball cricket. The only difference is that Watson shuffled across more and played much closer to his front pad which is why he was always out LBW whereas Bairstow prefers to play with more of a gap to allow a better swing through the ball which is why he gets bowled instead.
Don't get me wrong, I like Bairstow a lot. The energy he brings to the team is fantastic and he's always someone that seems to turn up in a chase. Stokes is ofcourse remembered for that famous chase at Headingley but it was Bairstow who provided the energy and willingness to be bold that swung the momentum in the morning after the Aussies had been all over Root and Stokes. But he will never change, he'll drive England to some real highs and will be a big factor in England falling to some real lows just like he has throughout his test career. The question is, as it has always been, is there finally someone more consistent who can take England to the same highs without having the serious lows? And I think Pope has earned the chance to have a long go at proving he can, and if Lawrence keeps playing well I think he will also have earned that too.
I think Watson is a bad example here, sorry - he had a technical issue that was the same throughout his entire career. Bairstow is a different beast - his issue is/has been (TBC) actually as much mental as it is technical, and is not even really about his defensive technique. The issue has been that in becoming the white ball player that he has, his mindset moved and he lost the selectivity as to which ball to attack and which to defend, and what you ended up seeing a lot in 2019 was him playing a full blooded drive to a ball that he would previously have checked out into the offside - a problem exacerbated by his having moved to the leg side by a whole stump.
He did a lot of work on it last Summer, and made a couple of good contributions on paper in FC cricket for Yorkshire. That said, he looked bloody awful even when making the best part of a ton (and I say that as a confirmed advocate). He has looked better since - both his defensive technique in the white ball stuff, and here. It will only really be stress tested when he gets back to English conditions, I suspect.
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Interesting question. The two JBs are the most polarising players in discussions on this forum, and amongst cubbies in general. Yet you hear the experts who played test cricket both on Sky and in the print media and the almost unanimous opinion is that both are in our top seven batsmen and should be locked in certs.
Amateur pundits like big 'look at me' opinions. Which usually means deliberately having an opinion different to that of the selectors.
The Ben Foakes thing currently seems a easy way of looking like you really know your cricket.
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Amateur pundits like big 'look at me' opinions. Which usually means deliberately having an opinion different to that of the selectors.
The Ben Foakes thing currently seems a easy way of looking like you really know your cricket.
Don't think you need to know a great deal, just had to have watched the last SL series and wondered how the bloke got binned after keeping immaculately and getting runs.
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Amateur pundits like big 'look at me' opinions. Which usually means deliberately having an opinion different to that of the selectors.
The Ben Foakes thing currently seems a easy way of looking like you really know your cricket.
To be fair you don't need to know much to see out of the 3 keepers who is the best.
The argument/debate/discussion on this forum is more to do with if you believe England should play the best keeper on the basis(in the sub continent especially) he will contribute more by taking more chances and also get runs.
As opposed to the better batsman who will miss chances behind the stumps standing up or back but make up for it with more runs with the bat(than the specialist).
That's a constant debate as people have different opinions of what keeper would be best for England.
I'd give the forum a lot more credit, there's no one I've read on here saying Bairstow or Butler is a better keeper than Foakes...absolutely no one.
It's more tactics. Those that think a batter/keeper is better can pat themselves on the back England currently think the same.
The fact Foakes is a more than decent batsman at FC level and the limited tests he has played makes it a closer argument than has been previously...like Matt Prior v Chris Read for example.
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the issue has been around for years:
-knott & taylor (both were fabulous keepers - but taylor was the purest)
in the 1980s downton and richards were used as they were better batters when they were not great keepers - taylor and french were better keepers
-russell and stewart in the 1990s
-chris read being binned for geriant jones in the west indies 2004
-colin metson (sp) for glamorgan was a brilliant keeper and better and the best in the uk for years - but was not great with the bat (av 18 in fc) - jack russell was prefer to him as russell could bat more - then stewart usurped him as we needed more runs!!!
standard issue as @ppccopener said - i think the selectors would agree - if they didn;t they would never have picked foakes in the first place - if he wasn;t a better keeper he would never have played unless bairstow and butler were injured
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I've seen a lot of Ben Foakes and agree he's the best keeper. They are preferring Buttler because of his ability to change a game quickly as a batsman.
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I've seen a lot of Ben Foakes and agree he's the best keeper. They are preferring Buttler because of his ability to change a game quickly as a batsman.
totally agree
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To be fair you don't need to know much to see out of the 3 keepers who is the best.
The argument/debate/discussion on this forum is more to do with if you believe England should play the best keeper on the basis(in the sub continent especially) he will contribute more by taking more chances and also get runs.
As opposed to the better batsman who will miss chances behind the stumps standing up or back but make up for it with more runs with the bat(than the specialist).
That's a constant debate as people have different opinions of what keeper would be best for England.
I'd give the forum a lot more credit, there's no one I've read on here saying Bairstow or Butler is a better keeper than Foakes...absolutely no one.
It's more tactics. Those that think a batter/keeper is better can pat themselves on the back England currently think the same.
The fact Foakes is a more than decent batsman at FC level and the limited tests he has played makes it a closer argument than has been previously...like Matt Prior v Chris Read for example.
Prior won that face off and was part of the best England side for a long while. I think we know how this will play out and it doesnt look good for Foakes!
Buttler is the man in possession and unless he has injuries I expect him play against India this summer and to tour Australia next winter. If Foakes couldnt keep his place after the debut series he had I cant see him ever being first choice with these selectors
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Prior won that face off and was part of the best England side for a long while. I think we know how this will play out and it doesnt look good for Foakes!
Buttler is the man in possession and unless he has injuries I expect him play against India this summer and to tour Australia next winter. If Foakes couldnt keep his place after the debut series he had I cant see him ever being first choice with these selectors
Agree I think the planning I read on line is Butler is schedule to miss the last 2 India tests(the away tour) and Foakes will play when he is rested.So just in when Butler is missing.
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I think Watson is a bad example here, sorry - he had a technical issue that was the same throughout his entire career. Bairstow is a different beast - his issue is/has been (TBC) actually as much mental as it is technical, and is not even really about his defensive technique. The issue has been that in becoming the white ball player that he has, his mindset moved and he lost the selectivity as to which ball to attack and which to defend, and what you ended up seeing a lot in 2019 was him playing a full blooded drive to a ball that he would previously have checked out into the offside - a problem exacerbated by his having moved to the leg side by a whole stump.
He did a lot of work on it last Summer, and made a couple of good contributions on paper in FC cricket for Yorkshire. That said, he looked bloody awful even when making the best part of a ton (and I say that as a confirmed advocate). He has looked better since - both his defensive technique in the white ball stuff, and here. It will only really be stress tested when he gets back to English conditions, I suspect.
Bairstow's problems are very much technical - it's all in the backlift. He starts with high hands, which is fine, but then drops them. As the bowler releases his hands are actually on the way down, and tend to float out towards gully. Weirdly it's the reverse of what most would consider best practice! Attacking the ball it's not so much of a problem as he picks the bat up again to play the bigger shot, but in defence against seam it leaves him poking at the ball and struggling to bring the bat back in line - hence getting bowled aiming for mid on a lot. Look back to footage of his best years and the bat never gets out wide towards gully, although there aren't many highlight clips of him playing solid forward defences obviously. Vs spin, footwork is more important and drags the bat into line on the front foot, so his game against the slow bowlers isn't affected in the same way. His attempt to counter mostly seems to be to get further across the stumps rather than sort his swing out.
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Agree I think the planning I read on line is Butler is schedule to miss the last 2 India tests(the away tour) and Foakes will play when he is rested.So just in when Butler is missing.
I don't get this 2 squads thing some people have been talking about, must admit I have not seen it.
So Jos is then not going to play the T20i's and ODI's afterwards with the WC coming up? Or are they saying he's just going to stay out in the bubble in India and just not play the last 2 tests and rest?
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Bairstow's problems are very much technical - it's all in the backlift. He starts with high hands, which is fine, but then drops them. As the bowler releases his hands are actually on the way down, and tend to float out towards gully.
You read Steve James' piece in the Times today 😉 You see that as a technical issue, I see it as the manifestation of a mindset. Either way, interesting to see if he has resolved the issues.
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Bairstow's problems are very much technical - it's all in the backlift. He starts with high hands, which is fine, but then drops them. As the bowler releases his hands are actually on the way down, and tend to float out towards gully. Weirdly it's the reverse of what most would consider best practice! Attacking the ball it's not so much of a problem as he picks the bat up again to play the bigger shot, but in defence against seam it leaves him poking at the ball and struggling to bring the bat back in line - hence getting bowled aiming for mid on a lot. Look back to footage of his best years and the bat never gets out wide towards gully, although there aren't many highlight clips of him playing solid forward defences obviously. Vs spin, footwork is more important and drags the bat into line on the front foot, so his game against the slow bowlers isn't affected in the same way. His attempt to counter mostly seems to be to get further across the stumps rather than sort his swing out.
Couldn’t agree more, Root Buttler and Bairstow all do this to varying extents and it’s why they have struggled for the last 2 years on and off.
When attacking, they all unweight the bat and can score 360 because of it. When defending their hands are almost rooted to their back hip and there is minimal, if any, backswing. This results in hard hands and pushing at the ball and subsequently getting bowled or nicking off a lot.
Root started again to at least get some back swing going in defence against seam in his last innings and low and behold he made one hell of a double ton.
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Personally, I think the reason Bairstow's place in the side is such an enduring debate is due to his annus mirabilis in 2016. He scored 1470(!) test runs that year, together with 70 dismissals as keeper - a truly extraordinary, unprecedented feat. He was one of five Wisden Cricketers of the year in 2016.
At his best then, Bairstow is probably England's best player.. but we haven't seen him at his best in Tests since then. I think we all expected him to kick on and become England's second best batsman after Root, to average over 40, and to be an established senior player.
Instead, he became a ODI/T20 machine, and won the world cup. His test results suffered. The romantic in me though thinks that Bairstow still has so much more to give this test side, and an in-form Root & Bairstow would be an incredible spine to this inexperienced batting line-up. If Buttler didn't exist, we might not even be having this conversation, because he wouldn't have had the pressure on his place.
I want 2016 Bairstow back, and I want him to smash it.
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Even at his best I don't think Bairstow is a better player than Root or Stokes.
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I just checked the stats. In 2016, Bairstow averaged 58.8 . Root averaged 49.2 . Bairstow was keeping too!
Obviously that is no longer the case, but after that year I think the hope was that Root, Stokes and Bairstow would be this amazing core of the side, but Bairstow has underperformed.
If he recaptures anything near his 2016 form though, he has to be in the side. He's a serious player.
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Personally, I think the reason Bairstow's place in the side is such an enduring debate is due to his annus mirabilis in 2016. He scored 1470(!) test runs that year, together with 70 dismissals as keeper - a truly extraordinary, unprecedented feat. He was one of five Wisden Cricketers of the year in 2016.
At his best then, Bairstow is probably England's best player.. but we haven't seen him at his best in Tests since then. I think we all expected him to kick on and become England's second best batsman after Root, to average over 40, and to be an established senior player.
Instead, he became a ODI/T20 machine, and won the world cup. His test results suffered. The romantic in me though thinks that Bairstow still has so much more to give this test side, and an in-form Root & Bairstow would be an incredible spine to this inexperienced batting line-up. If Buttler didn't exist, we might not even be having this conversation, because he wouldn't have had the pressure on his place.
I want 2016 Bairstow back, and I want him to smash it.
Great Post couldn't agree more, shame it hasn't quite worked out that way but still time for a few years of success and good form. Type of player I think England need, passionate and gritty despite his flaws, goes away and works hard to improve and earn his spot
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You read Steve James' piece in the Times today 😉 You see that as a technical issue, I see it as the manifestation of a mindset. Either way, interesting to see if he has resolved the issues.
Haha I did as it happens, first time I've seen anyone in the media pick up on it! Gio Colussi flagged the problem up a long time ago though so he can have the credit rather than James. Imagine he'll score some runs in SL and India but then struggle again back in England, particularly if he stays at 3. The new Keaton Jennings?
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Jimmy in for Broad, team otherwise the same. A little surprised they've signed Wood up for another flogging!
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Asking Wood to play back to back seems a bit much when they've got an ideal like for like player in Stone
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I would of had Broad in, if they want to rotate he doesn't play one dayers so will have a break before the India series.
Wood plays both formats, I would of changed him for Stone as you would think Wood will tour India I both formats.
Still think we have one too many seamers with Curran in the team, I guess without Moeen they don't want a non batting spinner in so Root may bowl a few overs again
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Personally, I think the reason Bairstow's place in the side is such an enduring debate is due to his annus mirabilis in 2016. He scored 1470(!) test runs that year, together with 70 dismissals as keeper - a truly extraordinary, unprecedented feat. He was one of five Wisden Cricketers of the year in 2016.
At his best then, Bairstow is probably England's best player.. but we haven't seen him at his best in Tests since then. I think we all expected him to kick on and become England's second best batsman after Root, to average over 40, and to be an established senior player.
Instead, he became a ODI/T20 machine, and won the world cup. His test results suffered. The romantic in me though thinks that Bairstow still has so much more to give this test side, and an in-form Root & Bairstow would be an incredible spine to this inexperienced batting line-up. If Buttler didn't exist, we might not even be having this conversation, because he wouldn't have had the pressure on his place.
I want 2016 Bairstow back, and I want him to smash it.
I'm a big Bairstow fan and whilst i can understand some of the flack he often gets from most of my club mates, a lot of it I just don't get. So much of the debate got caught up on the gloves and took away from the fact that he is a proven world class test batsman. Personally, I think he still has plenty to offer in all formats and would also love to see him back at his best.
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I'm a big Bairstow fan and whilst i can understand some of the flack he often gets from most of my club mates, a lot of it I just don't get. So much of the debate got caught up on the gloves and took away from the fact that he is a proven world class test batsman. Personally, I think he still has plenty to offer in all formats and would also love to see him back at his best.
He isn't a proven world class test batsman though, averaging mid 30s is average at best!!! Clearly has technical deficiencies as gets out the same way too often.
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He isn't a proven world class test batsman though, averaging mid 30s is average at best!!! Clearly has technical deficiencies as gets out the same way too often.
It's the fact he keeps getting out the same way in conditions that are helpful to seam/swing bowling.
Every top tier test side has at least two top quality pace bowlers who have the skill to hit the stumps at pace and with movement. Bairstow keeps getting out to that type of bowling so until he can go away and demonstrate a method to defend against this bowling, I just don't see how he's a feasible selection in Aus, NZ, England or SA.
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One way to sort out the problem..... rest him for the series. Think we will see Sibley, Burns and Crawley in India then.
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Butler confirmed actually to be missing the last 3 India tests .
Presuming that Bairstow does not get the gloves....Foakes will play 3 test matches in India.
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Inject that into my veins
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He isn't a proven world class test batsman though, averaging mid 30s is average at best!!! Clearly has technical deficiencies as gets out the same way too often.
Well, in the absence of a definition for world class.... it's a fairly subjective notion. However, using your criteria:
IT Botham - 33.54
Clearly not world class! :o
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I think Botham got a few wickets as well as the runs but I havnt seen Bairstow bowl so that may also be subjective.
I guess if he could he would of had a bowl by now thou.
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Haha, very true :D
How about
AJ Lamb - 36.09
I just think we are too quick to dismiss someone who has over 4000 test runs, 6 centuries and 21 50's. I get looking to the future and all that but the guy clearly can perform at the top level.
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So where does he bat?
Not 3 that's Crawley's for the foreseeable
Not 6 that's pope/Lawrence
Open? Burns and Sibley
7? It's him or buttler so not there
4/5 root and stokes
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Haha, very true :D
How about
AJ Lamb - 36.09
I just think we are too quick to dismiss someone who has over 4000 test runs, 6 centuries and 21 50's. I get looking to the future and all that but the guy clearly can perform at the top level.
Think it matters where he made those runs and how long ago it was! Hasn't he scored the majority of his test runs batting at 7?
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JB certainly has scored runs at top level. His record over the last 2 odd years thou has not been very good. So it depends how much you rely on past performances to get selected in the current teams.
From my armchair selection he does not get into the current side, I would have Foakes keeping and Butler as a batter. If Jos keeps Pope gets in before him and Lawrence as well-more on potential for Lawrence.
Comparing eras for batsmen who played 20 years ago is difficult, there's many things to take into account before working out who was better.
Personally I don't think it can be done on just numbers, as pitches have changed, to counter that you could say DRS gives a lot of batsmen out now where as before they got away with the benefit of the doubt.
There's also the standard of bowling attacks faced,so a few things make direct comparisons quite difficult.
I watched Lamb score hundreds against one of the best bowling attacks even seen in the game since records began....
Similar with Atherton who I think averaged about 37 or 38 or something.
Having said all that the last match I thought Bairstow batted pretty responsibly and well, clearly it's pace that is e problem, not spin.
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JB certainly has scored runs at top level. His record over the last 2 odd years thou has not been very good. So it depends how much you rely on past performances to get selected in the current teams.
From my armchair selection he does not get into the current side, I would have Foakes keeping and Butler as a batter. If Jos keeps Pope gets in before him and Lawrence as well-more on potential for Lawrence.
Comparing eras for batsmen who played 20 years ago is difficult, there's many things to take into account before working out who was better.
Personally I don't think it can be done on just numbers, as pitches have changed, to counter that you could say DRS gives a lot of batsmen out now where as before they got away with the benefit of the doubt.
There's also the standard of bowling attacks faced,so a few things make direct comparisons quite difficult.
I watched Lamb score hundreds against one of the best bowling attacks even seen in the game since records began....
Similar with Atherton who I think averaged about 37 or 38 or something.
Having said all that the last match I thought Bairstow batted pretty responsibly and well, clearly it's pace that is e problem, not spin.
Couldn't agree more and am always telling people that it is impossible to compare eras too much has changed in the game but those 2 jumped out from the page in the mid 30's. Athers and Nasser also 37.
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This is a really good article explaining about what England are doing with their selection rotation policy over the winter.
https://m.cricbuzz.com/amp/cricket-news/115851/englands-rotation-policy-a-move-anchored-in-flexibility-and-pragmatism-cricbuzzcom?__twitter_impression=true
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Well, in the absence of a definition for world class.... it's a fairly subjective notion. However, using your criteria:
IT Botham - 33.54
Clearly not world class! :o
Botham was an all rounder which Bairstow certainly isn't so don't really understand that comparison!!!
Lamb was a good good international batsman who scored runs against world class bowlers from a different era so again don't understand that one.
The mai issue I have is that he keeps getting out the same way against seam bowling, in much before same way Ballance did. As has been mentioned I just dont see him fitting into the current batting line up, in my opinion better options ahead of him.
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I tend to agree with you and it is difficult to see where he fits into the current squad. In terms of whether he is world class or not, personally I find it difficult to read this and think of him as anything less.
https://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/11066/10703931/jonny-bairstows-all-round-record-breaking-2016-for-england (https://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/11066/10703931/jonny-bairstows-all-round-record-breaking-2016-for-england)
We are all selectors and if we all agreed life would be terribly dull :) I do find it interesting how Bairstow divides opinion so much more than any other current player.
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Take into account his IPL experiences and playing in India, can't believe he hasn't gone.
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I tend to agree with you and it is difficult to see where he fits into the current squad. In terms of whether he is world class or not, personally I find it difficult to read this and think of him as anything less.
https://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/11066/10703931/jonny-bairstows-all-round-record-breaking-2016-for-england (https://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/11066/10703931/jonny-bairstows-all-round-record-breaking-2016-for-england)
We are all selectors and if we all agreed life would be terribly dull :) I do find it interesting how Bairstow divides opinion so much more than any other current player.
It's good there are different opinions on here as long as we don't get people deliberately winding people up which hopefully we won't that often.
England's keeping position and Bairstow probably have been the most discussed on here, batting wise there are Stokes and Root as our best and to be honest others are trying to establish themselves and find their way. We have have loads of different batsmen thru in the last 3-4 years, none of them so far really make themselves an automatic pick.
Personally I think Pope could be the best of the lot, at his age he is an outstanding prospect.
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Take into account his IPL experiences and playing in India, can't believe he hasn't gone.
Reading between the lines he'll be there for the last two games, and needs a break at some point.
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It's good there are different opinions on here as long as we don't get people deliberately winding people up which hopefully we won't that often.
England's keeping position and Bairstow probably have been the most discussed on here, batting wise there are Stokes and Root as our best and to be honest others are trying to establish themselves and find their way. We have have loads of different batsmen thru in the last 3-4 years, none of them so far really make themselves an automatic pick.
Personally I think Pope could be the best of the lot, at his age he is an outstanding prospect.
That really doesn't surprise me at all. Bairstow has been the hottest topic with my club mates for a long time and I seem to be very much in the minority.
I'm normally a big advocate for a specialist so in theory should back Foakes who is a terrific talent but just have a nagging thought that Jonny still has more to offer. I wouldn't want to be the actual selectors lol
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I tend to agree with you and it is difficult to see where he fits into the current squad. In terms of whether he is world class or not, personally I find it difficult to read this and think of him as anything less.
https://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/11066/10703931/jonny-bairstows-all-round-record-breaking-2016-for-england (https://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/11066/10703931/jonny-bairstows-all-round-record-breaking-2016-for-england)
We are all selectors and if we all agreed life would be terribly dull :) I do find it interesting how Bairstow divides opinion so much more than any other current player.
He had a World Class year. So have plenty of others.
If you have World class years consistently you become a world class player. A big difference
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Sibley still going to have a better average than all NZ openers? ;)
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They really do love gifting wickets
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Oh Jimmy Jimmy
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Been rather innocuous from Leach, don't look threatening at all
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Anderson just gets better and better, his opening spell this morning was superb.
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It's remarkable how he keeps producing consistent spells of quality at his age, by accident or design his action must be protecting the areas of greatest strain on the body.
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Moeen becoming a better player by the ball the way Bess and Leach are bowling.
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Certain he would of played both tests had he been available despite recent poor form with bat and ball, England want to get him back in the side.
The Sri Lankans were always going to play better than their first innings performance last match.
It's day 1 on a new pitch so there won't be as much for the spinners yet......but yes if we cannot control one end in India we will have problems.
We already have problems before that tour takes place, they could take our spinners apart
Maybe the Indian wickets will have a bit early on with their seam attack and that will help us as well.
But it's going to spin there, it always does.
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Root doesn't half love running bowlers into the ground
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Woody is at full tilt yes he needs looking after by the captain
He could bowl himself for a few it’s nearly end of the day
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Bit of a boring first day to be honest, pitch is a bit dead
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Yeah, it's got to come down to Root to protect his man hasn't it. Woody the type of bowler who will always want to give you another one if you keep chucking him the ball. Always great to see him giving his all but surely shorter burst would be better.
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Yeah, it's got to come down to Root to protect his man hasn't it. Woody the type of bowler who will always want to give you another one if you keep chucking him the ball. Always great to see him giving his all but surely shorter burst would be better.
Bit of a worry that Root hasn't learned a lesson from the handling of Archer. Wood and Stone both have a history of injury issues and both will, presumably, be important members of the next Ashes squad.
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I'm unconvinced Archer will have a long test career as the one day format is where the money is, and Root may or may not of handled him badly before but you don't want to see our fastest bowler bowling long spells in these conditions.
So there maybe something in Roots handling of him, I don't think he is a good captain or should be captain, but there are improvements over the last couple of years.
The senior players have a role too, I see nothing wrong wi a frank exchange of words on the field, they are at work after all.
Don't want to see this repeated tommorow, otherwise someone needs to have a word with him.
90 mph fast bowlers havnt come along that often since I've been watching England.
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90 mph fast bowlers havnt come along that often since I've been watching England.
No. Yet right now we have potentially got six!
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No. Yet right now we have potentially got six!
Who are the six?
I’ve got Archer, Wood, Stone and struggling to think of any others? But then I don’t follow a huge amount of CC
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I'm unconvinced Archer will have a long test career as the one day format is where the money is, and Root may or may not of handled him badly before but you don't want to see our fastest bowler bowling long spells in these conditions.
Don't know if the cash will be a stumbling block for Jofra, he'll be in demand as a white ball cricketer barring some huge loss of form and the ECB have made some pretty serious efforts to facilitate their star players being able to play franchise cricket.
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Who are the six?
I’ve got Archer, Wood, Stone and struggling to think of any others? But then I don’t follow a huge amount of CC
Jamie Overton?
Stokes can get there too
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No. Yet right now we have potentially got six!
Six!! Are you sure :)
Archer wood stone.... you thinking of the Lancashire Asian lad Mahmoud I think..he might make 4
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Not in the squads yet but Tom Helm, George Garton and Josh Tongue have all clocked 90+mph in the county championship IIRC.
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My six were Archer, Wood, Stone, Jamie Overton, Saqib Mahmood and Brydon Carse, because I was limiting the field to those who were within England and Lions squads in the last 12 months. Tom Helm and Tom Barber in the County game can get close - I don't think Garton is quite there since his injury though he is probably still around 85 which with the angle and his improved batting make him a potential in the next couple of years (you could say the same, apart from the angle, about Matt Fisher too). I have to say I have never seen Josh Tongue bowl, though Jimbo is right he has been spoken of as "a bit quick"...
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Six!! Are you sure :)
Archer wood stone.... you thinking of the Lancashire Asian lad Mahmoud I think..he might make 4
I think hes probably classed as English considering he was born in and plays for England
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Six!! Are you sure :)
Archer wood stone.... you thinking of the Lancashire Asian lad Mahmoud I think..he might make 4
There you go, fixed it for you.
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I think hes probably classed as English considering he was born in and plays for England
Yes absolutely, no mis-description was intended
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There you go, fixed it for you.
:) Have to say I don’t know who Carse is or that one of the Overton brothers was up that quick.
Helm and Garton both have had back issues I think but are pretty quick.
I think sometimes there is a distinction with guys who can bowl consistently at 90mph and those that have hit it during certain games.
One thing I do know, in the test area it is still a precious commodity and needs looking after.
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I didn't think Brydon Carse was that sharp, thought he was more of a Woakes type player who could bowl with decent pace and a bit of movement plus being a useful bat rather than clocking 90mph+. Interesting if he's got that extra bit of pace as he sounds like a pretty decent bat too.
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Brydon Carse was the quickest I saw during the 2019 season.. I mentioned it on here.
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Carse on his day can consistently bowl 87-90+ but he’s had a lot of injuries, last season was the first time he’s managed to get through what we’d call a season without an injury. I’ve had the luxury of keeping to him whilst playing club cricket and he certainly hits the gloves very hard !!
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JIMMY
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Woakes is a better player than Curran right now. I'm not sure Curran has done much on this tour so far.
He's talented for future, sure, but why play him above Woakes?
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Maybe this pitch will turn in about 20 years time
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Woakes is a better player than Curran right now. I'm not sure Curran has done much on this tour so far.
He's talented for future, sure, but why play him above Woakes?
To be honest there is absolutely no need for a 3rd seamer. Certainly not a medium pace orthodox swing bowler
Curran is filling a 3rd spinner shaped hole
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5 for Anderson, he really is different class.
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Shame the spinners have been a bit rubbish
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Amazing from Jimmy but such a shame we are relying on him for the heavy lifting in Galle of all places
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Be interesting to see how the SL spinners get on. Inconsistent length is costing bess and leach on a flat pitch
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Amazing from Jimmy but such a shame we are relying on him for the heavy lifting in Galle of all places
Absolutely, and Wood is putting in a great effort here as well with 2 wickets and still getting it thru head high.
I'm listening on the radio, no turn for our guys but it's a better wicket so far by the sound of it.
But is we cannot hold one end down in India we will get taken apart.
Perhaps the most important bowlers in India are going to be our seamers.
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Would you take Ali and Rashid over Leach and Bess?
Pretty worrying even if there isn't much turn.
Leach 0-119
Bess 0-76.
Those figures will kill us in India...
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England desperately wanted Ali to play now despite his poor form in recent years.
Can't see Rashid touring he has a dodgy shoulder and maybe worried Root would bowl him too much with the 2020 WC coming up.
I think Leach is our best spinner and then we have Bess, don't know much about Parkinson.
Think it's fair to say this pitch has not helped the spinners so far, but we will struggle in India. If it follows similar tours they will attack spin so the seamers don't get a chance to rest.
If we don't have 3 spinners good enough we may even play an extra batsman in the team.
We are going to struggle in the next tour I think, a drawn series would be a great result but I can't see it.
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Word is Rashid was interested in a Test recall toward the end of last Summer but when he tried to get through a full day of bowling in the nets at Leeds he woke up in serious pain the day after. Its a shame, because he is certainly better than the two we have here, but I doubt that we will ever see him play the long form of the game again.
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Sigh
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Can’t think of many English batters who have been worse at playing spin than Sibley.
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Anyone else notice how loud that NO from Joe was? :)
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Would you take Ali and Rashid over Leach and Bess?
Pretty worrying even if there isn't much turn.
Leach 0-119
Bess 0-76.
Those figures will kill us in India...
Absolutely. Rashid should have been much better handled by England. I would have played Ali here in the place of Curran. He needs overs to be available for selection in India
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What’s the point of having these yellow and red cards if umpires don’t use them. Bowler knew what he was doing there
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Surely YJB should just open?
Might at least protect Crawley at 3.
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Well in doubt, sweep the thing
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Surely YJB should just open?
Might at least protect Crawley at 3.
No Bairstow for the 1st 2 tests (at least) in India so its going to be Sibley, Burns and Crawley in some form of order. Which is very worrying.
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Not Bairstow's biggest fan but this is 3 innings he has played responsibly and well. Both him and Root are playing spin superbly
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Can’t think of many English batters who have been worse at playing spin than Sibley.
He struggled last summer against part time spin in English conditions so this winter was always looking a challenge. He neither looks to have any idea what his scoring options are or how he will survive
It does beg the question whether teams should approach batting line ups in the way they do bowling line ups and pick for the conditions. If Keaton Jennings was a bowler with an equivalent record in Asia, he would have been on this tour
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He struggled last summer against part time spin in English conditions so this winter was always looking a challenge. He neither looks to have any idea what his scoring options are or how he will survive
It does beg the question whether teams should approach batting line ups in the way they do bowling line ups and pick for the conditions. If Keaton Jennings was a bowler with an equivalent record in Asia, he would have been on this tour
I seem to remember that was given as the main reason for his inclusion last time around to Sri Lanka (Jennings) and his abilities against spin. Don't really rate him that highly but surely if the logic is sound for one tour, why not the next??
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Root is so good
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He struggled last summer against part time spin in English conditions so this winter was always looking a challenge. He neither looks to have any idea what his scoring options are or how he will survive
It does beg the question whether teams should approach batting line ups in the way they do bowling line ups and pick for the conditions. If Keaton Jennings was a bowler with an equivalent record in Asia, he would have been on this tour
There is good sense to this - especially for England who play so much cricket. You might go Burns, Sibley, Crawley, Root, Pope, Stokes at home or in NZ, then in Australia you'd go to Sibley, Crawley, Bairstow, Root, Malan, Stokes and on the sub continent Jennings, Bairstow, Lawrence, Root, Stokes, Pope
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I wouldn't be dropping Lawrence for Australia given his last England Lions tour!
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If they aren't going to bring anyone else in, then I'd drop Sibley and open with Foakes in India. He'd do a far better job.
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If they aren't going to bring anyone else in, then I'd drop Sibley and open with Foakes in India. He'd do a far better job.
I bet James Bracey is bringing Silvers a LOT of cups of tea right now....
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I bet James Bracey is bringing Silvers a LOT of cups of tea right now....
Is Bracey known to be strong against spin? Heard bits about how promising he is but not much detail.
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Is Bracey known to be strong against spin? Heard bits about how promising he is but not much detail.
On current evidence, even if he doesn't make a run he would save the couple that Sibley averages in the field :)
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Word is Rashid was interested in a Test recall toward the end of last Summer but when he tried to get through a full day of bowling in the nets at Leeds he woke up in serious pain the day after. Its a shame, because he is certainly better than the two we have here, but I doubt that we will ever see him play the long form of the game again.
Damn, that is a real shame. Very good player!
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If they aren't going to bring anyone else in, then I'd drop Sibley and open with Foakes in India. He'd do a far better job.
Foakes wouldn't open but for those of us that think he should be playing the best keeper, the argument the batting is weakened by doing that I'm struggling to get my head around.
I suppose if you look at the players available, there are a lot of good middle order players in a bunch together
Root
Pope
Butler
Ali
Lawrence
Bairstow
Foakes
Curran
Woakes
It's up top we don't have many options, and that has been our problem for quite a long time.
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Foakes wouldn't open but for those of us that think he should be playing the best keeper, the argument the batting is weakened by doing that I'm struggling to get my head around.
I suppose if you look at the players available, there are a lot of good middle order players in a bunch together
Root
Pope
Butler
Ali
Lawrence
Bairstow
Foakes
Curran
Woakes
It's up top we don't have many options, and that has been our problem for quite a long time.
Thats where horses for courses works better than "this is our XI" - we have reasonable top order options in England in Burns, Sibley, Crawley and a couple of others. In the subcontinent, there is less of an issue with a guy who elsewhere would ideally bat six stepping up - Buttler, for example, is someone who you would expect to get blown away if he batted at the top in England, but he would probably do well enough in these conditions.
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Word is Rashid was interested in a Test recall toward the end of last Summer but when he tried to get through a full day of bowling in the nets at Leeds he woke up in serious pain the day after. Its a shame, because he is certainly better than the two we have here, but I doubt that we will ever see him play the long form of the game again.
I think the white-rose tinted spectacles have reached a new peak with that claim!
The average gap between them (10 runs) in both first class and Test cricket should be enough to prove otherwise but theres also the last Tour of Sri Lanka where they both played on the same pitches vrs the same opposition (in fact Leach bowled more often agaist the top order) and Rashid was comprehensively outbowled.
Admittedly Leach has not been near his best so far. Probably quite understandably.
The longer Rashid is out of the team he seems to become a better bowler. People only seem to remember the eye catching dismissals and big spinning leggys which he undoubtedly has in his locker. I remember the regular drag downs and 4 balls which he also serves up
Id have him in this team as the luxury 3rd spinner. I wouldnt pick him ahead of Leach ever.
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With regards to India, if we have mediocre spinners then there’s not a lot the selection panel can do. You can only pick what you got. Don’t see Bess being anything other than a liability. Still got big hopes for Leach.
Alternatively rather than picking 2/3 spinners pick 2/3 rapid bowlers - someone like Steyn had an incredible record in India.
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You mean just totally give up on the idea of spin bowling? Crikey!
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Too much straight-line 'up and over' coaching. Possibly.
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You mean just totally give up on the idea of spin bowling? Crikey!
Not give up on spin bowling. I’d pick Leach as the only spinner. Archer, Stokes, Stone and Anderson/Broad.
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I'd have Leach in I think he's our best bet spin wise.
It's a bit early to predict what might happen but at the moment we may have to hope because of India's pace attack the wickets do offer help to the seamers because they are our best bowlers too.
It will spin there, it always has....but you're back to selection on our best players or the conditions, are your best the best regardless of conditions.
Rather than pick a bowler who is not up to it, another batsmen or another seamer would be an option.
We are going to need runs on the board for sure just to get in the game.
Tricky...but England have been here before with Indian tours, the only difference now is they have four or five very good pace bowlers.
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I think the white-rose tinted spectacles have reached a new peak with that claim!
OK, let's start with those averages. Bit different being the fifth bowler behind any combination of Sidey, Brooks, Bresnan, Patto, Plunkett and Coad on good wickets and bowling at Ciderabad. I'm not saying Leach isn't a decent bowler, but he has taken a lot of wickets in advantageous conditions.
Second, I would point out that Leach and Bess are bowling plenty of full bungers and drag downs right now. At least Dilly has the big turner's as well.
Third, White rose spectacles my backside. Rashid is... Less than popular with Yorkshire fans!
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Forget the "ciderabad" rubbish
Leach is currently bowling in advantageous conditions
The only real comparison we can make is the last time they bowled together in the same side in the same conditions...
Leach won that
Also he's coming off the back of basically a year out and serious illness
He has excuses (less so in India), Bess on the other hand....
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Forget the "ciderabad" rubbish
I'd be interested to understand the rationale for calling it rubbish, given that ECB pitch inspectors practically live there 😂
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Wouldn't Dom Bess have been picked with greater regularity and not felt it necessary to move on?
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I'd be interested to understand the rationale for calling it rubbish, given that ECB pitch inspectors practically live there 😂
That's fine, except using that as a defense when we're in Sri Lanka is weak, especially when Leach easily out bowled Rashid and earnt the #1 spinner job
Only given to Bess as he wasn't fit
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I'd be interested to understand the rationale for calling it rubbish, given that ECB pitch inspectors practically live there 😂
Pet Hate Alert.
Why do the green tops on which Darren Stevens (other skilful medium pacers are available) takes a bag full and the games over in 2 days never get a such remarks?
Surely they are waaay more damaging to the development of the national side
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@Manormanic - I accept that Taunton is more favourable to spin than Headingley. But how do you explain the 10 run gap in Test averages?
Rashid isnt unpopular at Yorkshire for the same reason as Azeem Rafiq is he?
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Pet Hate Alert.
Why do the green tops on which Darren Stevens (other skilful medium pacers are available) takes a bag full and the games over in 2 days never get a such remarks?
Surely they are waaay more damaging to the development of the national side
Could not agree more (with the caveat that some of the early season ones are somewhat unavoidable) - if the pitches are deliberately prepared that way, there should definitely be sanctions.
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Rashid isnt unpopular at Yorkshire for the same reason as Azeem Rafiq is he?
Actually, I find that quite offensive.
Rafiq, for the record, was well liked by Yorkshire fans, he was a wholehearted player who always gave his best.
Rashid has... shall we say a patcher record with the fans, largely because he has often seemed less than fully committed. Perhaps the best example was the 2016 Championship finale at Lords, when Root and Bairstow were "rested" by Strauss, much against their own wishes. The ECB didn't rest Dilly... but he opted out, citing tiredness, despite having hardly played. It is well known that he has no interest in playing unless there are TV cameras present.
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Rashid isnt unpopular at Yorkshire for the same reason as Azeem Rafiq is he?
[/quote]
Wow! I hope I've misinterpreted this one? @Manormanic
stated he was unpopular with Yorkshire fans, so are you insinuating the Yorkshire fans have a issue with racism rather than the club?
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I think we'll be playing against Embuldeniya for many years to come.
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Rooty's switch hit was absolutely glorious
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Root is so good!
Jeez, the young guns are not having a good time in this match. Sibley, Crawley & Lawrence all out for 5 or less.
Feeling less confident of our chances in India, though I'll keep the faith.
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Actually, I find that quite offensive.
Rafiq, for the record, was well liked by Yorkshire fans, he was a wholehearted player who always gave his best.
Rashid has... shall we say a patcher record with the fans, largely because he has often seemed less than fully committed. Perhaps the best example was the 2016 Championship finale at Lords, when Root and Bairstow were "rested" by Strauss, much against their own wishes. The ECB didn't rest Dilly... but he opted out, citing tiredness, despite having hardly played. It is well known that he has no interest in playing unless there are TV cameras present.
Thats fine you are allowed to feel offended. Its a subject that does offend.
But what I actually meant was - Is he unpopular because he has blown the whistle alongside Rafeeq? Ive read from various sources (cricinfo, social media) that Rafeeq has faced more abuse since he brought these allegations to light. Im assuming thats from supporters/general public rather than employees of the club. Maybe Im wrong to assume that but it beggars belief if club officials have continued the racism whilst they are under enquiry.
I find it hard to believe that two spinners, both with Pakistani backgrounds, played in the same era and team. One has experienced racism and one hasn't.
Back to the subject of England spinners - you were telling me why Rashid is better despite the huge gap in average?
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Does anyone else remember when Boycott, Vaughan and co would criticise England players for playing the sweep against spinners because it was too high risk, and then go nuts when they got out playing it?
Look at Root now! A master of it.
How times change!
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Yes definatley, Thorpe in the sub continent,Gooch,KP all swept really well.Root has it mastered and could be the best of the lot.
His hundred is a pretty quick one by balls faced, you need all scoring options to score that quickly. If you can't play it I guess the fielding side can set straight positions cutting down options so the scoring rate goes down and you're stuck patting back maidens pretty regular.
It was Gatting that was panned for playing a reverse sweep he got out to in a semi or final WC.
Think that was 1986 maybe or around there.
The one day game def has brought better scoring rates to tests nowadays
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Gatting's brain fade:
https://scroll.in/field/923230/world-cup-moments-when-mike-gatting-suffered-a-brain-fade-to-hand-australia-the-1987-final
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Not sure I agree with that, ball looked like it rolled up the boot after the ground to me,
But hard to tell given short leg was in the way, would like to see a better angle if possible
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Nah, looks like bat to boot to me
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Yeah just seen it again, definitely hit boot front view is clearest
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Not sure I agree with that, ball looked like it rolled up the boot after the ground to me,
But hard to tell given short leg was in the way, would like to see a better angle if possible
I thought he was quick to give it and also thought it could have hit the ground marginally before the boot. Still not entirely convinced from the other angle. Everyone seems pretty sure tho.
Great stats for Root as he passes KP in test runs.
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I thought he was quick to give it and also thought it could have hit the ground marginally before the boot. Still not entirely convinced from the other angle. Everyone seems pretty sure tho.
Great stats for Root as he passes KP in test runs.
Not as destructive as KP but a much better player for me. Look at who KP played with and who he was coming in after and compare it to Root and it tells you what you need to know about the context of those test runs.
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Not as destructive as KP but a much better player for me. Look at who KP played with and who he was coming in after and compare it to Root and it tells you what you need to know about the context of those test runs.
Big call that but I am leaning towards it aswell. KP only briefly had the burden of captaincy which has clearly affected Roots batting negatively - up until this tour!
0 hundreds in Australia through which is one thing he will want to correct next winter.
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Big call that but I am leaning towards it aswell. KP only briefly had the burden of captaincy which has clearly affected Roots batting negatively - up until this tour!
0 hundreds in Australia through which is one thing he will want to correct next winter.
It's certainly a tight call and KP was phenomenal to watch but I do wonder how many Root might have got with Cook, Strauss, Trott as the top 3 and Strauss as captain for the duration of his career.
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Ah, losing one before tea
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Big call that but I am leaning towards it aswell. KP only briefly had the burden of captaincy which has clearly affected Roots batting negatively - up until this tour!
0 hundreds in Australia through which is one thing he will want to correct next winter.
Taken Root less time to get there though, which has to count for something. People above him on that list also who have less tons, yet don't have the conversion issue ever mentioned. Hope people finally just appreciate we have a world class batsman in our side.
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Taken Root less time to get there though, which has to count for something. People above him on that list also who have less tons, yet don't have the conversion issue ever mentioned. Hope people finally just appreciate we have a world class batsman in our side.
I think you've misread what I wrote, I said im leaning towards Root.
My point about the captaincy is that his batting would be even better without it
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It's certainly a tight call and KP was phenomenal to watch but I do wonder how many Root might have got with Cook, Strauss, Trott as the top 3 and Strauss as captain for the duration of his career.
The captaincy has definitely been a distraction to him until now and I think the stats support that. I dont think hes a natural leader by any stretch. Doesn't mean he cant become a good one
Maybe this tour is the start of him being able to balance both so his batting can get back to his bests. It may just have taken a while to learn how
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It's certainly a tight call and KP was phenomenal to watch but I do wonder how many Root might have got with Cook, Strauss, Trott as the top 3 and Strauss as captain for the duration of his career.
That would be a difficult comparison to make, generally I think it's harder to bat 1,2,3 at any level so those runs count for a bit more for me. I opened for 30 years for my club so perhaps I'm biased, most of my team mates wanted to come in after 20 overs had passed.
KP might of benefited from having a few tired bowlers and a softer ball when he batted as Trott did a fantastic job for ages protecting the middle order.
Then there are a lot of views Bells 20 tons are not so good because he followed KP....I don't really buy that, 20 Internatiknal hundreds count for a lot.
Root is def our best and up there with the best we have had. Cook,KP and Strauss played genuine pace very well, Root does not do that and it's his weakness.
Joe definatley plays spin better than Cook and Strauss and Trott.
I guess no batsman is perfect, there's a weakness somewhere.
I think Root would need to score runs against Australia - rightly or wrongly that's a yardstick often used.
He hasn't had the protection from the top order much, so in comparison to some others-perhaps he is better to overcome that.
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Joe is a big boi
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The lack of openers is a real problem - the answer is probably to pick & stick with a pair and try and let them learn on the job.
NZ always seem to do well with making their decision and sticking with it
We need a good squad of two/three players for every position - alongside the ever present Root & Stokes
Bairstow’s utility is as much of a strength as a weakness but in Asia he’s very good.
1 Burns or Bairstow
2 Sibley or Bairstow
3 Crawley or Lawrence or Pope
4 Root
5 Pope or Lawrence or Crawley
6 Stokes
7 Buttler or Bairstow
8 Curran or Woakes
9 Bess or Moeen or Leach
10 Archer or Wood
11 Broad or Anderson
Wildcards - Stone, Cook (yes that Cook) Lammondby, Virdi, AN Overton & Foakes
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Joe Root has been on the field for 93% of this test
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Bess calling Crawley gangly ahahahahahahahahahaha
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The lack of openers is a real problem - the answer is probably to pick & stick with a pair and try and let them learn on the job.
NZ always seem to do well with making their decision and sticking with it
We need a good squad of two/three players for every position - alongside the ever present Root & Stokes
Bairstow’s utility is as much of a strength as a weakness but in Asia he’s very good.
1 Burns or Bairstow
2 Sibley or Bairstow
3 Crawley or Lawrence or Pope
4 Root
5 Pope or Lawrence or Crawley
6 Stokes
7 Buttler or Bairstow
8 Curran or Woakes
9 Bess or Moeen or Leach
10 Archer or Wood
11 Broad or Anderson
Wildcards - Stone, Cook (yes that Cook) Lammondby, Virdi, AN Overton & Foakes
Cook is an interesting bit of fantasy :D
Lammonby needs more experience of FC, lots of potential but very raw and doesn't have the numbers to suggest he's anywhere near ready.
Virdi is definitely a good spin prospect, bags of talent.
Foakes should be in the team already, let alone the squad.
JOverton has heaps of pace and hits a long ball, just have to hope he's over his injury issues. COverton has added a yard of pace, lost no control and worked on his batting, much improved player since he was last in an England shirt.
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Cook isn’t going to happen but a man can dream.
Lammonby hit 3 tons last summer under pressure & averages over 50, even having to play at “ciderabad” - but you are right it’s way to soon and he’s only 20
Foakes does not get in my team although he’s a super cricketer
Jamie O it’s a surprise for me he’s not been given a go yet
Craig O probably unlucky to have so much competition for bowling slots.
The other option if we do not have traditional openers is let’s go big at the top of the order and get in some biffers - there’s a queue for that role.
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Cook isn’t going to happen but a man can dream.
Lammonby hit 3 tons last summer under pressure & averages over 50, even having to play at “ciderabad” - but you are right it’s way to soon and he’s only 20
Foakes does not get in my team although he’s a super cricketer
Jamie O it’s a surprise for me he’s not been given a go yet
Craig O probably unlucky to have so much competition for bowling slots.
The other option if we do not have traditional openers is let’s go big at the top of the order and get in some biffers - there’s a queue for that role.
As much fun as two biffers would be, I think Silverwood is pretty married to a more traditional game plan. Also compromises the middle order where England have their best two players batting.
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Not out
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Bugger
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Joe!!!! No!
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Some quality sledging :
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/cricket/12197480/dickwella-chat-added-to-game (https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/cricket/12197480/dickwella-chat-added-to-game)
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Well, this isn't bad
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Great stuff from Bess & Leach!
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This is some atrocious batting
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Spinners are in the game, I suspect without seeing the dismissals thou it may be slightly mis leading.
Just shows if you can get runs on the board it can knock the stuffing out of teams
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Can't believe this is the day I decided not to bother getting up earlier for the commentary...
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Shouldn't have been letting a #10 get a 40 odd, hurts us badly. Doable chase, but not going to be easy
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So, err, are we blowing this
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Shouldn't have been letting a #10 get a 40 odd, hurts us badly. Doable chase, but not going to be easy
To be fair, he didn't bat like a number 10, it was a pretty good innings.
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Rootys gone, time to panic
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anyone else starting to get annoyed with the over appealing from sri lanka? the keeper appealed for lbw in the first innings which didnt even hit the pad, then looked devastated when it wasnt given out. Dickwella's sledging is good but they possibly need to revisit the lbw rules at some point.
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That a good result for us, I thought we might win but 2-0 was deserved.
V pleased for Sibley to get a score.
And to be fair to bairstow, nothing spectacular but he did a job pretty well at 3
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good result, could have gone very wrong in the second innings - credit to Bairstow and Butler - and really happy for Sibley to see us through!!!
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Cook isn’t going to happen but a man can dream.
Lammonby hit 3 tons last summer under pressure & averages over 50, even having to play at “ciderabad” - but you are right it’s way to soon and he’s only 20
Foakes does not get in my team although he’s a super cricketer
Jamie O it’s a surprise for me he’s not been given a go yet
Craig O probably unlucky to have so much competition for bowling slots.
The other option if we do not have traditional openers is let’s go big at the top of the order and get in some biffers - there’s a queue for that role.
I'd love Cook to be around the team still and think he could have a huge impact even working with 'the openers' trying to get them in a mindset similar to his own.
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0 50s for root this series.. not good enough 🤣🤣🤣
Good win and nice to see a few others stand up when needed
Leach has become our leading wicket taker in Sri Lanka with 28
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0 50s for root this series.. not good enough 🤣🤣🤣
Good win and nice to see a few others stand up when needed
Leach has become our leading wicket taker in Sri Lanka with 28
Shocking from Root not bringing it home in the 4th innings 😂
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i would have though sri lanka will be very dissapointed with the 2-0 loss, having the best spinners and home team friendly conditions. 2 big batting collapses cost them big time, and they were on the end of a root masterclass in both tests
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i would have though sri lanka will be very dissapointed with the 2-0 loss, having the best spinners and home team friendly conditions. 2 big batting collapses cost them big time, and they were on the end of a root masterclass in both tests
Yes but they had it in their own hands in this second match despite Roots brilliance
I’m not sure how many we could of chased batting last with the pitch starting to turn
A 200 chase may of been beyond England
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Mickey Arthur, aside from the histrionics, isn’t the tactical genius he thinks he is. Chandimal has twice been fired as captain - when Herath was still around, because he was tactically inept. So was does Arthur do when Karunaratne got injured? Made Chandimal the captain again.
Arthur is well past his sell by date. No more than a clown.
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Mickey Arthur, aside from the histrionics, isn’t the tactical genius he thinks he is. Chandimal has twice been fired as captain - when Herath was still around, because he was tactically inept. So was does Arthur do when Karunaratne got injured? Made Chandimal the captain again.
Arthur is well past his sell by date. No more than a clown.
I think he is embarrassing to watch after every decision, like a Sunday league football manager.
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Yes but they had it in their own hands in this second match despite Roots brilliance
I’m not sure how many we could of chased batting last with the pitch starting to turn
A 200 chase may of been beyond England
there too many 'umpires call' referrals that went our way for me to feel comfortable that we could have chased many more. could very easily have gone against us if the umps had given just 1 of them, curran and bess the next 2 even chasing another 50 would have been a stretch i think.
didnt see the Srilanka second innings but seems like we should have rolled them for a lot less
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Totally agree with you there
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found it strange that the majority of umpires call not outs on first view i thought were nowhere near hitting the stumps. sibley must have been right back on his stumps to hit him that high and still clip the bails
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Eng performing so well vs SL sets up the Eng vs Ind series very well. Expect this to be an exciting test series.
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found it strange that the majority of umpires call not outs on first view i thought were nowhere near hitting the stumps. sibley must have been right back on his stumps to hit him that high and still clip the bails
Havnt seen any TV highlights yet but the modern way of playing spin is more from the back foot, or right forward/right back don't get stuck in the halfway house position.
To play off the back foot you do need to trust the pitch and away from any shooters. I remember seeing a clip with Thorpe demonstrating how to work the spinners around from the back foot, giving more time to see the ball.
I'm pretty sure he scored a hundred in Sri Lanka or Pakistan hitting no fours, just knocking the balls into gaps.
It could be that Sibley in the last innings went further back, it would be interesting to see. If he has done that I guess it does show you need to change if anything doesn't work for a while.
Having loved watching Thorpe bat against pace or spin, Root has shown again he is one of the best against it.
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Sibley was either ball the way forward or all the way back this innings
Trying to play off the back foot and react to the ball like root does
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That's a good sign he can adjust as he did look all at sea against the spinners.
Huge boost for him he made a contribution in a winning test also.
Slightly unexpectedly for me anyway, Crawley looked to be the better player of spin but ended up with no runs.
Still think he is a number 3 or 4 bat in a test team, I didn't know he opened for Kent but he looks naturally more of a stroke player
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I'm pretty sure I read somewhere before the series that Sibley doesn't like opening but is happy to do it for the team,
We've gone over this loads so won't bleat on but burns Sibley Crawley is my preferred top 3
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I'm pretty sure I read somewhere before the series that Sibley doesn't like opening but is happy to do it for the team,
We've gone over this loads so won't bleat on but burns Sibley Crawley is my preferred top 3
You're thinking of Crawley.
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found it strange that the majority of umpires call not outs on first view i thought were nowhere near hitting the stumps. sibley must have been right back on his stumps to hit him that high and still clip the bails
I have to say that watching it live, I was amazed that they weren't given. The second review in particular looked stone dead.
I don't particularly like the umpires call aspect of DRS. I appreciate that originally the system was for obviously incorrect decisions but now with snicko and hot spot it has clearly gone beyond its original remit
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I'm pretty sure I read somewhere before the series that Sibley doesn't like opening but is happy to do it for the team,
We've gone over this loads so won't bleat on but burns Sibley Crawley is my preferred top 3
Sibley dictated to Alec Stewart where he wanted to bat before signing a new contract at Surrey, and he subsequently told him to sling his hook
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Sibley dictated to Alec Stewart where he wanted to bat before signing a new contract at Surrey, and he subsequently told him to sling his hook
Hmmmm I know you're a massive Surrey fan so I will be careful with this post :)
Sibley said if he was going to get into the England team he had to bat top 3 I believe. The gaffer Alec said he could give no guarantee of that.
Sibley went to Warwickshire with the same proposal and they said yes.
You have Burns and Stoneman opening in the CC, I like Stoneman but he is 30 plus and won't play for England again.
I can see why Sibley moved as hard as it was because I know he came thru tour colts system.
Have I got that right?
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You're thinking of Crawley.
Yes that was Crawley.
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Yes sorry I did mean Crawley.. typed too quickly and didnt check it!
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I don't particularly like the umpires call aspect of DRS. I appreciate that originally the system was for obviously incorrect decisions but now with snicko and hot spot it has clearly gone beyond its original remit
Aye - it's daft that Sibley two not outs were hitting more stump than Bairstow's dismissal.
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It is..until you stop taking the tracking as gospel and umpires call is the best alternative
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It is..until you stop taking the tracking as gospel and umpires call is the best alternative
Either you trust the technology or you don't but I think it needs to be a consistent approach. I recall Tim Paine being given out caught behind in the recent India series when the on field decision was not out, there was no mark on hot spot but a small noise on snicko. Clearly not obvious error by the onfield umpire given the conflicting technology, but the decision was overturned. I don't see any coherent basis for that being given as out when Sibley is given not out when half the ball is smashing into the stumps
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This could be a whole new thread but I like the technology generally but have never thought ball tracking could ever be accurate.
Tufnell was on this morning explaining about the arm ball or slider or non spinning off break -whatever you want to call it.
He said it's basically the same action but undercut with a different grip. The idea being you avoid landing on the seam so there's no grip and the ball carries on its arc.
The ball tracking could never know how the ball reacts when it hits the pitch-and that determines which path it's travelling on.
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But it is trusted and it works in its current format
The fact that there's half a ball width "safety net" built in to cover inaccuracies.. umpires call must be there to get the correct decision most of the time
Captains and teams have got more savvy with it, so to stop the bowler has gone out the window and it's now very tactical
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Also.. we should be thankful.. just look at VAR
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Very true ! Also, whether it it accurate or not it has played a part in moving on test matches.
Sat thru many a session way back with batsmen hiding their bat behind pads but clearly playing no shot.Confident the umpire would not give it out.
Don't we that much these days, batsmen have to use their bat more-and that can only be better
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Surrey were very disappoonted to see Dom Sibley go. There was no being told to 'sling his hook'. It has undoubtedly proved a good move for him. Though it wasn't exacttly a swap, Rikki Clarke going in the opposite direction worked out well too.
Well bowled our much-maligned spinners.
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DRS just needs to improve its accuracy.
25% of the ball instead of 50% and move on from there. 50% is ridiculous.
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This could be a whole new thread but I like the technology generally but have never thought ball tracking could ever be accurate.
Tufnell was on this morning explaining about the arm ball or slider or non spinning off break -whatever you want to call it.
He said it's basically the same action but undercut with a different grip. The idea being you avoid landing on the seam so there's no grip and the ball carries on its arc.
The ball tracking could never know how the ball reacts when it hits the pitch-and that determines which path it's travelling on.
As someone who has previously worked for one of the two ball tracking companies, I can answer this.
The system doesn’t know what the bowler has attempted to do, nor does it need to.
It’s purely works on the data it’s got post bounce to work out the path the ball is travelling along until impact and then using that information it predicts where the ball would have impacted the stumps, had it not been stopped.
Umpires call is in there to help cover the umpires and back there decision making rather than to purely cover for the ball tracking.
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I'm increasingly persuaded by arguments for doing away with 'umpire's call'.
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Has anyone seen any news on broadcasting for the India series yet? I can’t find anything concrete
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I feel umpires call should go away for both DRS and on field calls. If you say DRS isn't perfect, then we know that it could be off a little if any, but umpire can be off by several inches as we have seen since forever. At least with DRS, the inaccuracy is same for everyone unlike in case of umpires where we see same umpire gives mistaken out sometimes and mistaken not-out sometimes and then each umpire is different as well. As for on field calls, umpires call doesn't make sense either. Where technology is not able to figure out even with the superfast/magnifying cameras with multiple replays, I can't see how umpires could even come close to that accuracy.
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Has anyone seen any news on broadcasting for the India series yet? I can’t find anything concrete
Disney+ streaming service.
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Havnt seen any TV highlights yet but the modern way of playing spin is more from the back foot, or right forward/right back don't get stuck in the halfway house position.
To play off the back foot you do need to trust the pitch and away from any shooters. I remember seeing a clip with Thorpe demonstrating how to work the spinners around from the back foot, giving more time to see the ball.
I'm pretty sure he scored a hundred in Sri Lanka or Pakistan hitting no fours, just knocking the balls into gaps.
It could be that Sibley in the last innings went further back, it would be interesting to see. If he has done that I guess it does show you need to change if anything doesn't work for a while.
Having loved watching Thorpe bat against pace or spin, Root has shown again he is one of the best against it.
Thorpe got the ton in Pakistan hitting 1 boundary:-
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cricket/thorpe-s-slow-road-to-record-england-stand-623921.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cricket/thorpe-s-slow-road-to-record-england-stand-623921.html)
His was superb in both Pakistan and Sri Lanka that winter.
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Disney+ streaming service.
Is there a source for that? I’ve only seen speculation
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/0/india-vs-england-2021-tour-fixtures-dates-times-full-tv-schedule/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/0/india-vs-england-2021-tour-fixtures-dates-times-full-tv-schedule/)
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I had no reason to believe this wouldn't be on Sky. But now I think of it, it's not been advertised.
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Is there a source for that? I’ve only seen speculation
There’s been a falling out between BCCI and Sky Sports. So from what I’ve read Disney owns star sports in India decided to use their platform for the international market.
Kick in the teeth for the fans as it’s another subscription fee.
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I had no reason to believe this wouldn't be on Sky. But now I think of it, it's not been advertised.
Sky sports lost the Indian rights 18 months ago
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So the Telegraph article doesn’t actually confirm anything, just that it might be on Disney or another of their services or it might be be sold on to a 3rd party.
Amazing how late in the day these things are left, we shall see...
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So the Telegraph article doesn’t actually confirm anything, just that it might be on Disney or another of their services or it might be be sold on to a 3rd party.
Amazing how late in the day these things are left, we shall see...
Looking at a few Indian papers online it's Star Sports and Disney Plus streaming.
Talksport have the radio!
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Thats a bit of a result, just got a new ipad for work and got 6 months disney plus subscription free. Thought I'd never use it!
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As someone who has previously worked for one of the two ball tracking companies, I can answer this.
The system doesn’t know what the bowler has attempted to do, nor does it need to.
It’s purely works on the data it’s got post bounce to work out the path the ball is travelling along until impact and then using that information it predicts where the ball would have impacted the stumps, had it not been stopped.
Umpires call is in there to help cover the umpires and back there decision making rather than to purely cover for the ball tracking.
That’s interesting, apologies if others have discussed on here but if it works from after the ball has bounced, how does it work out how high or how steep the ball will end up?
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Oh no, not Talksport!
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This shouldn't have been allowed to happen.
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can cope with not watching it, but listening on talksport is painful
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Scrapped sky sports last year but it's not on there anyway which is a bit of a con.
I've been back to my youth listening to the SL series on BBC test match and it's been great.
Talk sport is painful. I suppose they will dig up Swann for it, that is double pain
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That's it for me and Sky Sports. Far too expensive for mostly repeats. Hardly ever watch football any more, so too expensive for what you get. Will just pay for a day or month at a time via Now TV from now on.
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That’s interesting, apologies if others have discussed on here but if it works from after the ball has bounced, how does it work out how high or how steep the ball will end up?
It doesn’t totally discount the information pre bounce, just the important information is post bounce. It purely plots the balls position in 3D space. Using 8 different camera angles, the down the wicket shots (give you the line) and then the run out cameras (gives you the height).