Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Latest Matches => Topic started by: alexhilly1492 on December 03, 2019, 09:29:39 AM
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With the NZ tour now over we look towards a winter in South Africa.
As in the NZ thread there a lots of question marks for england but for the first test i would like to see:
Burns
Sibley
Denly
Root
Stokes
Pope
Buttler
Woakes/Curran
archer
leach
broad
Excluded Foakes as it wont happen and im not sure if Jimmy will be fit
leach comes in for curran and or woakes depending on what root and co fancy
Other players that should tour:
Anderson (if fit)
Crawley
Bairstow/Foakes
Parkinson/ a spinner
Mahmood
this is based on who we took to NZ mainly
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Same squad plus Anderson in for Mahmood and add Foakes in as reserve keeper for me. Possibly add Wood for one of Woakes/Curran but who knows how his fitness will be.
Not been very impressed with Root talking about Moeen a lot in the interviews, bet poor Jack Leach is feeling cheerful...
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Where has he mentioned Mo? i saw he was asked about Mo in the interview with sky not seen it anywhere else.
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Interesting interview with Atherton who talked about there only being about 22 tests until the Ashes in Australia - therefore if you are going to go with the likes of Sibley and/or Pope then you must stick with them all the way through so they have a number of tests under their belt or we have no hope in Oz. Which is why the talk of Jennings playing (on the NZ thread) is ridiculous - 7 of the 22 matches are on the Sub continent. Are you going to deprive our possible Ashes opener 7 out of the 22 tests before the Ashes?
Tests before the Ashes -
SA (away) 4 matches
Sri Lanka (away) 2 matches
West Indies (home) 3 matches
Pakistan (home) 3 matches
India (away) 5 matches
India (home) 5 matches
Regards the SA series - Anderson, Wood and Bairstow are already in SA - all will be in the squad - fitness dependent of course
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/50546746 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/50546746)
So the squad looks like this -
Burns
Sibley
Denly
Root
Stokes
Pope
Buttler
Woakes
Leach
Archer
Anderson - fitness dependent
Broad
Bairstow - spare batter and keeper
Wood - fitness dependent
Curran
Mo - dependent if he is available for selection
It will be an interesting series because SA at the moment are in a period of transition and in just as much trouble as us both on and off the pitch
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Jennings is being considered for the Sri Lankan tour as Sibley has considerable work to do playing spin bowling.
The SA trip will be the same as for NZ, but as mentioned will likely include Bairstow as spare batter plus Anderson and Moeen.
I would add that this is a massive tour for England. We have been poor for a very long time. The SA team is weak too, but like the Eng team there are some stronger players in the mix.
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Burns
Sibley
Denly
Root
Pope
Stokes
Buttler
Moeen
Archer
Broad
Anderson
Backups:
Bairstow
Woakes
Leach
Curran
Crawley
I’d leave Wood at home. I don’t think you can trust him to stay fit. He’s a great asset on his day, but those days are far too few.
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As a squad, I'd go:
Sibley, Burns, Denly, Root, Bairstow, Pope, Buttler*, Malan, Stokes, Leach, Curran, Archer, Anderson, Broad, Wood, Mahmood, Virdi
*well, technically, I would leave Buttler at home and take Foakes, but that's not happening.
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I would probably take the same squad for this tour with Anderson, Wood and Foakes included; think Curran and Woakes will be the ones who will make way for the quicks as far as a starting XI is concerned
For all this tour of the Saffers being poor they're still much like any other side, stronger in their own backyard
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I am hoping SA continue the tradition of forcing England captains to resign, so Root can go back to scoring runs :D
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As feared, Bairstow is back in the squad. Great to have Anderson back though, with any luck Jofra can now be used properly as first change
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The scariest thing is that BBC have Ollie Pope listed as a wicket keeper :(
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Wood selected despite not being fit for the beginning of the tour. What’s the point picking him?
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Bleurgh. Drop Bairstow over extended poor form, pick him again before he's even played a red ball game. What's the point? Criminal that he's been picked over Foakes. At least they didn't pick Moeen.
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Looks like they saw Moeen but he made himself unavailable.
Not clear if Bairstow is selected just as a batsman?
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Bairstow will be the spare keeper and had been in South Africa on the fast bowlers workshop clearly working on his game
Those who saying not wood he bowled one of the most exciting spells I've ever seen live in the Caribbean and is a class act
Bowling attack of Anderson broad wood and Archer with leach is one id genuinely go out of my way to watch!
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I agree that bowling attack looks great (especially away from home) however for that to happen it means Leach or Archer batting at 8, so the top 7 would have to be scoring seriously consistent runs, which just isn't happening at the moment.
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I agree that bowling attack looks great (especially away from home) however for that to happen it means Leach or Archer batting at 8, so the top 7 would have to be scoring seriously consistent runs, which just isn't happening at the moment.
I genuinely wouldn't mine leach at 8
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Those who saying not wood he bowled one of the most exciting spells I've ever seen live in the Caribbean and is a class act
Granted, but he isnt fit. It's a wasted pick.
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Bairstow will be the spare keeper and had been in South Africa on the fast bowlers workshop clearly working on his game
Those who saying not wood he bowled one of the most exciting spells I've ever seen live in the Caribbean and is a class act
Bowling attack of Anderson broad wood and Archer with leach is one id genuinely go out of my way to watch!
Yes so initially Bairstow was to come back as a specialist batsman or so England hinted. In fact he’s just competing with Butler now and it appears England just want him in. I can see Butler being left out from the start here.
Bairstow has done exactly nothing in terms of runs to be recalled to the squad, and to think he is preventing the best keeper we have from touring is a massive shame. You cannot have Butler,Bairstow and Foakes..and you could throw Pope in, all on the same tour.
But..on the plus side yes so pleased Anderson is back
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Bairstow... should never play test cricket again
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Got to love the repetitive hate of Bairstow. Some frustrated keyboard warriors out there.
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Got to love the repetitive hate of Bairstow. Some frustrated keyboard warriors out there.
Tests: 69
Average: 35
100s: 6
Yes I’m 100% with you. How on earth is the legendary Sir Jonathan Marc Bairstow not in the playing XI. With such incredible figures I’m surprised he’s not topping the ICC player rankings...
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For a while, he was our best test batsman.
He just lost it in the pursuit of ODI/World Cup glory. His time might come again in the squad I guess.
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Bairstow is one if the best batsmen England have got. Whether he has performing to his best is obviously a different question.
My issues with him are...
1. Stropping when not keeper. He isn't a patch on Foakes. He needs to accept that and say I will bat at three and fill that gap for England.
2. As the above, he should be working to adapt his technique to be able to bat at three. Not hiding at 5, 6 or 7.
All in all, he is an example of what is wrong with this team.
The leadership is trying to please people rather than doing what is right for the team. The tail is wagging the dog.
Proper leadership please.
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Says a lot about our current crop that Bairstow, who gets bowled through the gate on a regular basis, and averages mid thirties after 69 tests, is one of England’s best batters.
We aren’t nearly as good as a lot of people seem to think and the sooner we accept that, the better.
So Wood not available due to injury and selected, with a. History of breakdown. Feels like we are back to the selection policy of the 90’s.
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Tests: 69
Average: 35
100s: 6
Yes I’m 100% with you. How on earth is the legendary Sir Jonathan Marc Bairstow not in the playing XI. With such incredible figures I’m surprised he’s not topping the ICC player rankings...
This.. these are not the stats of anyone deserving a recall or any form of indulgence
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Bairstow is one if the best batsmen England have got. Whether he has performing to his best is obviously a different question.
My issues with him are...
1. Stropping when not keeper. He isn't a patch on Foakes. He needs to accept that and say I will bat at three and fill that gap for England.
2. As the above, he should be working to adapt his technique to be able to bat at three. Not hiding at 5, 6 or 7.
All in all, he is an example of what is wrong with this team.
The leadership is trying to please people rather than doing what is right for the team. The tail is wagging the dog.
Proper leadership please.
If he is ‘one of our best’ then England are in a terrible state.. he’s played 69 tests !! And only avgs 35.. that’s .. well... dire.. really really dire
And you’re saying he should go 3!! Wow
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Tests: 69
Average: 35
100s: 6
Yes I’m 100% with you. How on earth is the legendary Sir Jonathan Marc Bairstow not in the playing XI. With such incredible figures I’m surprised he’s not topping the ICC player rankings...
As a wicketkeeper - which is the role England have had him play - those stats would put him only behind Matt Prior in the modern English game, and Prior got to do his batting in much more favourable circumstances.
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1. Stropping when not keeper. He isn't a patch on Foakes. He needs to accept that and say I will bat at three and fill that gap for England.
He's not. Few are. Though he could reasonably argue that he feels that as a keeper/bat package he offers more (not saying I agree with this view, though the England management clearly did)
It worries me that the view on here is that "he took a strop", despite the England squad - including Foakes - praising him for the way he handled his misfortune. The "evidence" seems to be that he practised his keeping on the outfield mid test...I'm genuinely not sure what you would have him do? He was the England keeper a game previously, and was in the squad in that role. Should he have immediately hung up his gloves?
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Bairstow the white ball player is very different to Bairstow the test player. He’s had more than enough tests now for us to know he’s not a top six BAtsmen. Added to that, as a keeper bat, he’s inferior to foakes .. by that logic, if you assume buttler is the man in possession then Bairstow is quite simply surplus to requirements.
I’d rather they played Crawley or other new lads than go back to these types of players who have had more than enough chances and have failed
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Bairstow averages 43 in first class cricket.
You can't just slag everyone off. He is as good a player as we have.
He needs to act like it.
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Bairstow the white ball player is very different to Bairstow the test player. He’s had more than enough tests now for us to know he’s not a top six BAtsmen. Added to that, as a keeper bat, he’s inferior to foakes .. by that logic, if you assume buttler is the man in possession then Bairstow is quite simply surplus to requirements
He's scored test centuries in the Ashes in Australia, in Sri Lanka on a Bunsen and in South Africa. That's enough evidence that he is capable of being a top six batsman, even if his recent form in the batting half of the keeper/batsman role has been patchy (though no worse than Buttler's).
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Buzz has it right my post was slightly off.Guardian has Butler as first choice going forward presuming he is fit and YJB as a top 3 batter
According to the paper Denly takes another one for the team and moves up to open leaving a gap for Bairstow to fit into.Joe seems to have his trousers permanently down. :)
Big fan of YJB the one day player in one day format he is vital to the team. call me old fashioned(again) but your top 3 are more specialists than the other batting positions, not so long ago we used to play 3 openers in the side.
don't want to turn this into a Bairstow hating thread he is a very good player but England, again, look like they are heading down a wrong road to accommodate one player.
If Denly is to move up the player earmarked for 3 is Crawley.But perhaps he has never 'earmarked' at all. :o
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Bairstow has always struggled when asked to bat higher, you'd imagine he's good enough to adapt if required but he's obviously too concerned about his personal role to try and change positions in the team. Given that, and the fact that he hasn't had any time to make any changes after being in shocking form for a couple of years now, it's criminal Foakes hasn't gone. Hope Crawley gets his chance if we need a batsman to come in.
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don't want to turn this into a Bairstow hating thread he is a very good player but England, again, look like they are heading down a wrong road to accommodate one player.
If that is really the plan, its a poor one. Firstly, if they drop Sibley now, they will be doing so knowing more or less nothing about whether he is up to the job (two tests is nowhere near long enough to decide) and second, as well as he did in the three Tests he batted at three, that is not a role that Bairstow is suited to long term. Far better, if they were going with that idea to bat Stokes at three and Jonny at five.
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If this is the case then it makes no sense and sends a awful message to those young players in the county set up. Sibley and Crawley have been the best young English openers in the last 12 months, Sibley gets 2 tests and 3 innings and Crawley gets 1 before (if rumours are to be believed) are disposed of to accommodate an out of form player into a role he doesn’t and has never batted in.
No idea how these decisions are made but Jo Root is in my opinion becoming one of the worst test captains we have had in a long time, just seems he is being bullied by either back office boys at the ECB or even players to fit in there mate in YJB. Look at how Aussies have rebuilt over the past 18 months by picking a specialist keeper and top order batters who didn’t and you could argue in Payne haven’t set the world alight in all forms but in there specialist roles have settled and earned a spot based on there 1st choice discipline.
Well let’s see how this pans out and I’m willing to be proved wrong but I can’t see this selection working well in the long run
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No idea how these decisions are made but Jo Root is in my opinion becoming one of the worst test captains we have had in a long time, just seems he is being bullied by either back office boys at the ECB or even players to fit in there mate in YJB.
Thats the crux of it, more or less. There are arguments both ways on whether he deserved to be dropped (for me, possibly/probably but not for Buttler) but once he has been, there needs to be a clear reason to bring him back and, right now, the only one I can see is that the dropping was a wake up call, probably softened by being told in advance that he would be selected here. In the meantime, as I said earlier, we know little about Sibley (who ought to do well in South Africa), enough about Pope to suggest that once the nerves calm and he stops plays horrendous shots he is probably Test class, but no higher than six for the next 18 months, and enough about Denly to say that he is our version of a Chris Rogers stop gap.
If one of the above is injured, or if Buttler is dropped, I have no problems with Bairstow playing - Crawley is not yet ready and Foakes not in the squad - but that is logically as far as it should go.
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The thing with bairstow is although he hasn't played any red ball cricket he did attend the ECB fast bowling camp.
Why on earth would a batsmen do that unless it was to work on his game, its proven he has a weakness against good quality fast bowling and with anderson, wood, stone et al this was on the camp.
with jno red ball to play he proabably has done enough to prove the issue has been fixed.
That being said, Foakes should have been picked even after a dodgy season with the bat
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After the last South Africa tour, everyone I'm pretty sure was happy with how Bairstow was doing. Granted he's been very average for the last 12 months in test, however, which of the current crop haven't? Stats ultimately don't lie - only root averages above 40. The batting unit is the weakest we've had for some time. For me, stick Bairstow in at 6 - I don't believe he's a number 3 against good fast bowling, his defence isn't solid enough. But against the softer ball, I'd be more than happy having him come in to get his eye in and then take on the 2nd new ball and up the tempo. However, the top 3 have got to give the shot makers the platform to do what they do best - which hasn't been happening.
i didn't appreciate that it's nearly 4 years since Ian Bell last played a test. Bloke that averaged 45 was sent to pasture, with nobody to replace him. He could have still been playing test cricket now (injury permitting).
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After the last South Africa tour, everyone I'm pretty sure was happy with how Bairstow was doing. Granted he's been very average for the last 12 months in test, however, which of the current crop haven't? Stats ultimately don't lie - only root averages above 40. The batting unit is the weakest we've had for some time. For me, stick Bairstow in at 6 - I don't believe he's a number 3 against good fast bowling, his defence isn't solid enough. But against the softer ball, I'd be more than happy having him come in to get his eye in and then take on the 2nd new ball and up the tempo. However, the top 3 have got to give the shot makers the platform to do what they do best - which hasn't been happening.
i didn't appreciate that it's nearly 4 years since Ian Bell last played a test. Bloke that averaged 45 was sent to pasture, with nobody to replace him. He could have still been playing test cricket now (injury permitting).
looking back as you are..its not just Bell, we actually had 4-5 players retire over a short period of time, that has not helped.
its was
strauss
cook
trott
KP
Bell
Collingwood(if you want stats look at his average he was in on merit)
in my Lifetime anyway that is the best batting line up I have known.
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That's the thing, Bell was retired by the management, he didn't choose to from memory. Which just left Cook and Root with any experience/ability to bat long - now with Cook gone, it's all on Root - and he knows it, the opposition know it - get him early we are in trouble.
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The big thing with that England top seven, if you permit me to include Prior, is that they were all ideally suited to the role they were asked to play - and older style top three, Piersen as the gun player at four, Bell to come into his own against the older ball, Colly to rebuild or attack as the situation required...
Compare with what you have now, where you have a squad litered with sixes and sevens and have had since Trott retired and...
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The big thing with that England top seven, if you permit me to include Prior, is that they were all ideally suited to the role they were asked to play - and older style top three, Piersen as the gun player at four, Bell to come into his own against the older ball, Colly to rebuild or attack as the situation required...
Compare with what you have now, where you have a squad litered with sixes and sevens and have had since Trott retired and...
yes Prior, I should of included him in the line up. Superb player.....certainly if youre looking at Butler/Bairstow with Prior the latter made himself into an acceptable keeper but his batting was far higher class than the other two
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This was bound to happen when the focus was purely on improving white ball cricket over the past few years and achieve world cup glory (which they did). Its good to see new faces getting a chance. The fans need to be patient with this team and hope that in a few years, some will establish their credentials in Tests and strengthen the team.
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Whilst on the face of it our bowling looks decent, and I appreciate the conditions in NZ were pretty benign, but the bowling worries me. Just didn't seem to really pose a threat. Hopefully Archer will be used more wisely in SA, rather than being bowled into the ground. To win test, and to help take pressure off Root, the bowling needs to be more threatening. Captaincy is easy when you have a bowling attack taking wickets!
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Out of interest does anyone know who's got the rights for this series please, is it Sky/BT/AN other?
Cheers
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I'm pretty sure the series is on Sky @moggy
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Great I have a chance of watching it then! Thanks!!
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yes Prior, I should of included him in the line up. Superb player.....certainly if youre looking at Butler/Bairstow with Prior the latter made himself into an acceptable keeper but his batting was far higher class than the other two
I don't know if I would say that, because Prior played almost exclusively in a winning team behind 6 guys averaging 45. That meant he got to make significant amounts of hay...
That said, the other side of the argument is that there was credible talk of him playing as a front line bat on a couple of occasions, with Colly in the frame to miss out, so the management must have regarded him highly.
And in Foster, he had his very own Foakes...
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ODI and T20 squads announced//www.ecb.co.uk/news/1530738
Some interesting selections/omissions from both sides really; find it weird to leave out Buttler (our VC) for the ODIs; I assume Bairstow will keep instead of Banton. Good to see guys like Brown, Banton, Mahmood and Parkinson around the team. T20 side on paper looks hot, if we're naming an XI now it's probably
Roy/Buttler/Malan/Morgan/Bairstow/Stokes/Moeen/Jordan/T Curran/Archer/Rashid
That being said, the discarding of someone like Liam Plunkett irks me
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I can't believe they've dropped James Vince :(
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I can't believe they've dropped James Vince :(
Indeed !
Root not in the T20. Controversial? The end of Root as a 20/20 player?
Yes I very very much hope so. Despite being a poor Captain...he is let’s be honest...he still remains the golden nugget, clearly 4th with the big 3 ahead of him, but our best batsman since Gooch/Pieterson.
I hope it’s permanent and he can focus on one day and tests, he need him back to his best.
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I think not being in the T20s does Root a massive favour
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So Sibley and Crawley will tour with the lions to Australia after SA. Good to get more red ball experience I guess?
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So Sibley and Crawley will tour with the lions to Australia after SA. Good to get more red ball experience I guess?
Good call that, with half an eye on the next away Ashes it makes sense to send your leading top order prospects over for some experience. More interesting to see Northeast and Jennings in there too!
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Good call that, with half an eye on the next away Ashes it makes sense to send your leading top order prospects over for some experience. More interesting to see Northeast and Jennings in there too!
Makes absolute sense, the more game time and being around the set up the better, hope to see more of this
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South Africa Test squad: Faf du Plessis (capt), Temba Bavuma, Quinton de Kock, Dean Elgar, Beuran Hendricks, Keshav Maharaj, Pieter Malan, Aiden Markram, Zubayr Hamza, Anrich Nortje, Dane Paterson, Andile Phehlukwayo, Vernon Philander, Dwaine Pretorius, Kagiso Rabada, Rudi Second, Rassie van der Dussen.
Pretty mediocre South Africa side, bowling is good. Batting looks like a second division county side. Bavuma more lives than a cat...
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It’s going to come down to which set of inexperienced bats handles the bowling better. The other thing is England have a tendency to underestimate opposition, which could play into SA hands.
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I saw that we were 37-0 and considered that a succesful day
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now 138-1
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I'll still take the 37-0 rather than being 3 down, as is tradition
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I'll still take the 37-0 rather than being 3 down, as is tradition
absolutely!! 180-1 sibley and denly retired after getting 50
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Just for balance... it shouldn't be a massive surprise that Burns, Sibley and Denly are pretty capable at the top of the innings at domestic level, I wouldn't get too carried away!
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Agreed and I don't see the point in these manufactured wa ups but getting a few is better than getting nothing against a county attack!
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Anyone have any idea on why is Pope listed as wicketkeeper in SA XI game?
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Anyone have any idea on why is Pope listed as wicketkeeper in SA XI game?
Wherever I looked, which wasn’t Cricinfo it had Buttler listed as WK. I don’t suppose at this stage anyone other than the team know. A number of the lads who are batting won’t field for the majority of the fielding innings, as I’m guessing this is going to be all the batters have a bat then rest up whilst all the bowlers have a bowl as oppose to a strict 11v11 game.
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I'd make Bairstow field after that score!
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I'm looking forward to seeing how Rabada and Bavuma do. Bavuma's ton last time we toured was pretty special, if I remember correctly.
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Doesn't look like the best of starts for Jimmy - must be very rusty.
Also Curran with a couple of early wickets. Interesting to see how he got them - whether there was any early swing?
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Craig Overton and Dom Bess called up as cover for the first test
Flu-like symptoms taking over the squad and back room staff in SA
warm up game starting today downgraded to friendly from first class status, still 11 a side 3 day game
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Unfortunately for England, South African walking wicket Temba Bavuma has been ruled out of the first Test. They might pick someone semi competent with the bat as his replacement
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Would have liked to have seen Mahmood over Overton, meh
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(https://i.imgur.com/5Ia71Tp.jpg?1)
A belter
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I have to say, our bowling could be in trouble, with Woakes now ill and Anderson having played so little cricket then with Broad and Archer coming back from illness.
This looks like a bowl first track too.
Sam Curran will really have to step up.
Also Stokes' Dad is really sick...
Assuming Stokes is available, the team for boxing day will be
Burns
Sibley
Denly
Roooooooooot
Stokes
Pope
Universe Jos
Curran
Archer
Broad
Anderson
If stokes isn't able to play, and Woakes is still sick, I am not sure what the plan is...!
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(https://i.imgur.com/5Ia71Tp.jpg?1)
A belter
Can’t see it going 5 days
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I have to say, our bowling could be in trouble, with Woakes now ill and Anderson having played so little cricket then with Broad and Archer coming back from illness.
This looks like a bowl first track too.
Sam Curran will really have to step up.
Also Stokes' Dad is really sick...
Assuming Stokes is available, the team for boxing day will be
Burns
Sibley
Denly
Roooooooooot
Stokes
Pope
Universe Jos
Curran
Archer
Broad
Anderson
If stokes isn't able to play, and Woakes is still sick, I am not sure what the plan is...!
If stokes isn’t able to play I assume they will play Barstow if he isnt already pencilled in to replace Pope. As seems to be the. Love for Barstow to be in the team (which i really hope isnt the case)
This sickness bug looks like it good cause havoc for the 1st test, only hope is that broad and Anderson have enough class and experience to make up for maybe some layoff from practise over the last few days. I would like to see Crawley in for stokes personally if he cant play and really start to bring forward our younger players. Will put a lot of pressure on the top order though to perform.
Only other option is to win the toss and choose to bat to hope to give the bowlers that have been unwell another day or two to recover fully but given our frail batting over the past 18months that bloody risky
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There is no chance Bairstow will replace Pope for this series.
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Good. Pope has huge potential just needs games.
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There is no chance Bairstow will replace Pope for this series.
I hope your right, I fortunately have a worry that they have not taken him just to carry drinks unless he is there solely as a back up keeper to save Pope having to cover for Butler to avoid a shambles like the last test match
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There is no chance Bairstow will replace Pope for this series.
Certainly not for the first game, no. If he were going to, no way he'd have batted so low in the warm ups.
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Even if Bairstow plays, he shouldn't if I was captain, won't make any difference South Africa are pony.
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The thought of England going with Anderson Broad and Archer all in the same side is a little worrying! Overton could be in genuine contention if Woakes is sick. Really hope we don't go without a spinner.
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Even if Bairstow plays, he shouldn't if I was captain, won't make any difference South Africa are pony.
If Bairstow plays then the way he's batted in tests lately the SA cordon will be in genuine danger from flying stumps when Rabada is on.
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du Plessis announced that Rassie van der Dussan and Dwaine Pretorius will debut for the hosts.
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(https://i.imgur.com/5Ia71Tp.jpg?1)
A belter
Apparently that photo was taken just after it was watered. Should look more batting- friendly come the start of the game
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There is no chance Bairstow will replace Pope for this series.
He shouldn’t even be there.. has done nothing for a looong while and has offered no form to suggest he’s improved his technique and mentality. 50+ tests, avg 35 is it?? Says it all really
SA are going to be a walk over.. dire side now.. not the famed SA of old, no matter how much the ECB or media bull up the series.. they’ve broken Rabada by playing too much white ball and that leave some de kock .. everyone else is shocking.. maybe not Markham actually.. he’s solid at least
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Pope the latest to be hit with illness. If he can’t play Bairstow or Crawley to replace.
SA are not the team they were for sure, but we are only ‘good’ I wouldn’t write them off in home conditions
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I hate to say it but what are they doing in the England camp. 1 or 2 going down with illness fair enough but this is ridiculous! Surely once a few go down then you quarantine and check what they have eaten etc... etc...
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In the history of the game, keeping wicket and averaging 35 is pretty good going.
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In the history of the game, keeping wicket and averaging 35 is pretty good going.
If you are selected as a keeper who can bat. Not so much if your a batter who keeps.
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If you are selected as a keeper who can bat. Not so much if your a batter who keeps.
Yes if we exclude Foakes as a specialist who is also a very good bat I think, not sure but think, we have to go back to someone like Jack Russell...figures don’t tell everything but averaged about 27. With modern bats, batting friendly wickets more today than back then Bairstow is about the same average as Russell. So that’s how I look at it same as @Tail Ender.
Bairstow really should be nowhere near selection but with illnesses it looks like he will play this game
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Won the toss, having a bowl, Bairstow playing
Today is going to be miserable. Jimmy reaching 150 is lovely though
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Hahahahaha, what on Earth? Absolute filth. Jimmy!
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In the history of the game, keeping wicket and averaging 35 is pretty good going.
If you’re Jack Russell.... not when you’re being picked as a batter who happens to keep a bit .. 70 tests too, not 50.
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Slightly concerned about Joe’s decision to bowl now...
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Markram now gone to some average bowling
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Markram now gone to some average bowling
It was Curran's first over, and just after he's just nicked him off from a peach that swung and held its line.
Jesus, what more can the guy do?
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The wicket delivery was innocuous, chipped it straight to Bairstow. Soft.
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The wicket delivery was innocuous, chipped it straight to Bairstow. Soft.
In his 4 overs so far Curran has bowled well, picked up a wicket. Beat the bat 3/4 times and bowling tightly.
Never seen him before but Hamza looks a handy bat
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Curran looks the best bowler this morning, threatening the off stump a lot and getting some movement.
Surprise surprise England's line and length especially from Broad and Archer has been all over the shop.
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Hamza looks quite the player (well he did until he got caught behind while I typed this). Looks like he modelled himself on Mr Kallis.
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71-3
England's decision to bowl justified, or still looking suspect?
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SA likely to be rolled over and have the belly tickled by tea
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71-3
England's decision to bowl justified, or still looking suspect?
I think it's too early to tell. There's no point getting a team out cheaply on day one if you get skittled out batting last, you have to think beyond the first day. That said if SA are all out on day one - very much game on.
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I know they are sacred cows, but I seem to remember quite a few incidences recently of Anderson and Broad bowling the wrong length and line at the start of a test.
Anderson must be near the end
Broad looks like a 3rd or 4th seamer
I reckon if you could find the right bowling coach, Archer will be a world-beater in 4 over bursts
I like Curran, when Stokes can't bowl any more, he gets the gig
They'll regret no spinner
I really don't think Root has evolved as a captain
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Absolute tripe of a first over this session from Archer
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71-3
England's decision to bowl justified, or still looking suspect?
Don’t know if Leach Is fit or if he would of played had he been, but with 5 seamers in he had to bowl this morning.
Trott reckons on bbc text no team wants to be batting on day 5.
Don’t think 3 wickets down so far is all that bad myself for SA
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Now that was a good ball from Sam
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And a peach from Broady. Maybe this wasn't a bad call after all
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SA are so so so bad. De kock slogging now won’t help
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Oh how we wished Sam was as good as Nick Winter of Brentwood...
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Pretty sure De Kock knows the lottery numbers, talk about riding your luck
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SA are so so so bad. De kock slogging now won’t help
Why is it sa so bad rather than England good??
De kock has played ok and naturally
Couple of good balls have got wickets too!
Curran has bowled well and deserved his rewards
Root bowling now shows that we need a proper spinner! Leach HAS to play the rest of the games assuming he's no longer ill
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South Africa are a poor side as can be determined by their team selections. van der Dussan an opener batting at 5. de Kock their best player wasted at 6. Markram has been crap for a long while now.
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This has been rather underwhelming from Archer, not like he's been overworked either
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Pretty much in tests you need a spinner, mostly as teams bat first the spinner comes into the game later on...not convinced thou Leach would of played had he been fit. stokes don’t seem to be bowling much these days, Anderson just coming back and it’s hot-gamble on sticking them in and that makes England thinking equal 5 seamers.
Looks to me like SA are the better placed side, 200-5 after being put in is good.
250 plus maybe a good score on a wicket doing a bit.
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Why is it sa so bad rather than England good??
De kock has played ok and naturally
Couple of good balls have got wickets too!
Curran has bowled well and deserved his rewards
Root bowling now shows that we need a proper spinner! Leach HAS to play the rest of the games assuming he's no longer ill
To literally quote Atherton ‘the problem for South Africa is, that England have not bowled very well but they have managed to somehow lose 6 wickets’
It really isn’t because England are doing well.. SA just aren’t very good, even compared to a average england side.
Still, 211 for SA is more than they looked like getting
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We're going to get collared for this over rate as well
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SA are so so so bad. De kock slogging now won’t help
Yeah 91 not out is of no help whatsoever
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Yeah 91 not out is of no help whatsoever
Chanceless was it ? Easy to point and say that but he’s nicked a lot and been dropped. He’s done a job and come off this time so fair enough but it could so easily have gone wrong. Can’t just go ‘Yey, how great’ with such high risk strategy when the team is in dire straights. It’ll fail more often than not
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Anyone else noticed de kock batting in a masuri keeping helmet?
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edit: duplicate of Alexhilly1492 question
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Relying on your big hitting 6 to win test matches isn't a long term strategy but he's played a pretty decent hand here.
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S Curran does it again!! One needed for a Michelle
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Almost like having variety in your bowling attack is a huge advantage?
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Almost like having variety in your bowling attack is a huge advantage?
Seems like the slower you Bowl the more movement you get.
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Interesting - I reckon advantage just about England as it stands but a lot rests on how England bat in that first session (provided they take that last wicket quickly!)
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How does the slow over rate penalty work in WTC? I believe the team loses points but are fines and suspension associated with it, also?
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Chanceless was it ? Easy to point and say that but he’s nicked a lot and been dropped.
How many decent scores are chanceless and don't involve a few nicks and the odd dropped chance at this level, pretty much none I would imagine. I thought it was good counter attacking knock, yes it's not going to work all the time but a batting order (much like a bowling attack) needs variety. Cant all be blockers or all hitters, need both in my opinion.
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Has there been an instance of WK batting in the top 5 and being consistent batting wise with good average? Would SA be better off by making Quinton play strictly as #4/#5 batsmen and using Klassen as the keeper? Will that help SA or hinder I wonder.
If Markram fails in the 2nd innings he needs to be dropped. I do not think he has done anything spectacular since the India series to keep his place in the test team.
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SA are so so so bad. De kock slogging now won’t help
I hate to say this, but for someone who is perfectly reasonable in the real world, you do display some fairly "entrenched" opinions online...
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Has there been an instance of WK batting in the top 5 and being consistent batting wise with good average?
I give you the legend that is Kumar Sangakarra.
And also to a certain extent our very our Alec Stewart
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QDK looked sublime but did get a terrific delivery from Curran.
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I give you the legend that is Kumar Sangakarra.
And also to a certain extent our very our Alec Stewart
Missed both those thinking that Sangakara was batting at 3 after giving up the gloves, while Stewart gave up the gloves shortly after he he started opening.
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Has there been an instance of WK batting in the top 5 and being consistent batting wise with good average?
Stewart scored 2877 runs at 33 while keeping and batting in the top 5. Only 6 others have made over 1000 runs whilst keeping and batting top 5, De villiers 1596 at 57, Sangakkarra 3092 at 40 and Andy Flower 3672 at 52 the only ones to average at least 40.
So not many are able to do it successfully.
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England did well considering the heat and illness we have had. Understand Leach is still I’ll but I wonder if we were going in with 5 seamers anyway to cover stokes and Anderson a bit.
South Africa’s day for me with 250 plus on a wicket that seems to have movement.
Looks like an interesting test match but I wonder how many of us really think we will bat past their score
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Both openers gone, 284 looks massive now
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If SA are 'so so so bad', then what are we?
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If SA are 'so so so bad', then what are we?
Was going to ask the same thing lol. Both very good deliveries tbh both bounced sharply and made the batters play and Rabada bowling at good pace. If only we have that!!
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What’s the deal with Kolpak post the GE? Will these South Africans be returned to sender?
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This guy Nortje is rapid 150kph quite consistently
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This guy Nortje is rapid 150kph quite consistently
Got a bit of James Pattinson about him, looks pretty similar in terms of action and looks pumped up too
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What’s the deal with Kolpak post the GE? Will these South Africans be returned to sender?
As far a si understand and please correct me if I am
Current deals stand post uk leaving eu (which is why there was a rush last year) and can be extended etc but no new deals can happen
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Enjoyable session that, Root and Denly toughed that one out pretty well. Would like another 100 from them before even thinking we're not entirely screwed
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70-3, Root out to a poor shot.
We may have a new coach, but this is the same old England...
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Root throwing it away
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Denly proving for me the number 3 we need. At least trying to hang in there till the ball gets older.
Root is same old same old when we need him. He is still our best but struggles to do both jobs
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Denly proving for me the number 3 we need. At least trying to hang in there till the ball gets older.
Root is same old same old when we need him. He is still our best but struggles to do both jobs
Denly could easily have bagged a duck. He's a very limited player. He's trying his best but he's not someone that will ever pull up any trees
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Philander's bowled 8 overs for 1 run. Mental
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Denly could easily have bagged a duck. He's a very limited player. He's trying his best but he's not someone that will ever pull up any trees
Cupboard of gun number 3 bats is notably bare, so Denly is doing just fine! Holding us together at the moment.
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We don't deserve Stokesy
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Brilliant 50 from Denly, hope he kicks on
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Ah, the curse
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Brilliant 50 from Denly, hope he kicks on
Top work there! :(
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CBF sweepstake - how many will YJB get before getting cleaned up trying to drive...
Edit - he was castled for 1 playing a nothing shot off the back foot! Classic Jonny, stumps everywhere
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CBF sweepstake - how many will YJB get before getting cleaned up trying to drive...
That would be 1
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Bairstow needs carting out of this side for good
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I don’t care that there is illness in the squad he was dropped because he wasn’t playing well enough and he’s come back in without playing a red ball game between then and now
Bring someone over who has at least a bit of form or this is what happens
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This is going well 🤦♂️
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We are so, so, so, so bad. Worse than SA.
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we’ve got the best keeper in the county game who also happens to be (currently) a far better red ball batsman than bairstow sitting at home eating left over turkey
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I suppose YJB is making Pope look a good bet at the moment.
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England are absolutely terrible. Bairstow should be nowhere near this team.
I’m starting to lose faith in Sibley too. Initially I thought he might be the answer, but it’s pretty clear that he’s scored all those runs in the CC because the standard is so poor.
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Curran to pull of another rescue act. He’s done it countless times, yet people question him in the side
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I think we need to show a decent period of faith with these newbies. Everyone was for chucking Denly out after a run of low scores and he is beginning to blossom, and I think everyone picked Burns's technique apart too.
Let's face it, we are an average side without 11 test-quality players yet - we need to go through a bit of a process to get back up to standard, so patience in the fans could be required.
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Denly could easily have bagged a duck. He's a very limited player. He's trying his best but he's not someone that will ever pull up any trees
I genuinely do think anyone would struggle to find a single England player you do rate.
Must be lonely looking down from the ivory tower all the time...
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To qualify, our players seem to fall into three categories at the moment -
Green:
Burns, Sibley, Denly, Pope, Curran, Archer
Off the boil champions:
Root, Broad, Anderson, Woakes
A bit poo, really:
Bairstow, Moeen
I excuse Stokes, who is touched with a bit of genius and Butler whom I think should only be in the ODI team, allowing Foakes to play.
when you you look at that, it doesn't really add up to a competitive team
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There goes Curran - no rescue act. That’s some catch
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All Buttler can do now is go for a tap. We had them at 100 odd for 5 and were 130 odd for three with the bat; our ability to just throw away good starts is beyond frustrating
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I genuinely do think anyone would struggle to find a single England player you do rate.
Must be lonely looking down from the ivory tower all the time...
Realism = me
Delusional = you
If Denly was this world beater you seem to think he is why did he get a Test cap aged 33? Basically top order batsmen are a lucky dip at present.
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All Buttler can do now is go for a tap. We had them at 100 odd for 5 and were 130 odd for three with the bat; our ability to just throw away good starts is beyond frustrating
Yeah with no Leach the tail is long. Jos has got to go one day now and hope we can get within 50 of them...even then we are right in the brown stuff.
Trott said on day 1 you don’t want to bat last on this track
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And Jos goes
Nothing changes, absolutely pathetic
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Jos gone
@Mister Le Chiffre mate! No one in here has said Denly is a world beater, I'd say we're all being realistic and saying he's the most capable at 3 and our best option at the moment! If you take a minute to get your head out your ass and actually read what people are saying I'm pretty sure you'd be able to contribute without acting all almighty!
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All out 100 runs behind on a deteriorating pitch.
We don't give ourselves much of a chance do we?
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Root definitely got the toss wrong, ball’s already staying low
DeKock’s 95 looking massive now
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They got a few more than they should of and that normally hurts the side batting next.
I can’t see any coverage I’m tracking it from holiday but Butler got an unplayable one by the sounds of it
Well done Denly but lots of us could see this coming. I didn’t think we could match their score myself
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Who would be an England fast bowler? Charge in all day in 35 degree heat with no spin bowler to hold up an end, and then your batsmen can't bat 3 sessions before you're out there again!
Some credit has to go to the SA bowling which has been on point.
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143-3 to 181-9
Please mods, take off the swearing filter
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Nasser finally calling England out on what we've all said for a year
103 behind bowling on day 2
Set batsmen need to look at themselves!! Poor again!
Now to bowl well and try and get back into this game!
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Oh dear...
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Absolutely pathetic batting display.
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What a performance from SA and philander. Showing the English bowlers what length to bowl.
Massive lead on this wicket
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Can't wait for the illness excuse from Root
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Root and Thorpe both need to be sacked.
Root is a lousy skipper and Thorpe has failed in his role s batting coach.
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We don't deserve Jimmy
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Still confused as to why England seem incapable of putting together a proper warm up schedule before important Test series. When was the last time they started a series looking match fit?
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There aren't many crumbs of comfort watching England, but at least we are consistent away from home.
We are definitely one of the worst travelling sides which is saying something when pretty much every side that travels is not competitive.
I think the next Ashes series is 2021-2022. That gives England 2 years to do 'something'. If England don't do anything there is little doubt that it could be at least 4-0 and more probably 5-0 to Australia.
What could they do?
1. Burns is as good as we have opening the batting,so he has to stay for the foreseeable future.
2. Open to ideas but none are really jumping out at me. I don't think Sibley or Crawley are the answer.
3. Denly? As good as it gets right now but in two years?
4. Root.
5. Stokes. But it is unlikely he will be able to bowl much in the future. Maybe a few overs a day at best.
6. Pope. He is one of the best in county cricket in terms of averages.
7. Not Butler. Sorry he was/is never a first class batsman/keeper. Great limited overs player. Thanks Jos enjoy the white ball contract and IPL etc. Got to be Foakes really.
8. Bowling allrounder. Sam Curran, at least he moves the ball.
9. Archer. But we have to figure out how to get the best out of him...hint it isn't bowling him in 25 overs every day.
10. Are Broad and Anderson going to be around in 2 years?
11. Spinner????
Time to draw a line in the sand as selectors and look at two years time and the Ashes away. Pick the 15/16 players right now that England feel could 'compete' in two years time and manage them accordingly. Be watchful we how they are used in one day and 20/20 matches. Don't let them play in the Hundred if they are burnt out. Why not send the bowlers overseas to play in Australia for a few weeks etc.
The key message is whatever we are doing now is NOT working. We are dreadful away from home and will get smashed overseas against virtually every single opponent. Something has to change. It's the players, the system or a combination of the two.
Or alternatively the ECB doesn't give a hoot about test cricket really...until we are about 6th in the ICC World Test Championship ;)
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We don’t need a ‘bowling all rounder’. Pick the three best seamers - just like India and Australia do. The likes of Bumrah, Hazlewood, Ishant and Shami are more number 12s than 11s.
If we bowl teams out for 150-200 the obsession with bits and pieces ‘all rounders’ becomes irrelevant
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Still confused as to why England seem incapable of putting together a proper warm up schedule before important Test series. When was the last time they started a series looking match fit?
Yawn - tired of that excuse. None of the other sides use this as an excuse - it’s modern day cricket
Excuse in NZ was it’s not part of the test championship so they weren’t bothered
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Less of an excuse, more of a reason. A professional approach to preparation is lacking, I don't think that excuses anyone, but it does highlight one thing England management are doing wrong.
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Quite simply we have a world class ODI set up and a bang average year set up.
Hell we can all see that Foakes should be in the side at the expense of both Butler and Bairstow. But at the first opportunity we discard Crawley after one test and 1 innings and put YJB back in.
We can’t get Archer to replicate what he can do in 10 overs in a ODI into a test match, our best batter is hampered with also being captain which is impacting his batting massively.
We haven’t had a decent spinner since Swann retired and for some reason don’t look like getting a replacement soon.
The test match side needs to be reviewed like our ODI side was a few years back
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That's the jofra we need to see!
Quick and jagging back!
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I still don't see us chasing anything more than 180
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Chance to get SA out for under 100 now
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I genuinely do think anyone would struggle to find a single England player you do rate.
Must be lonely looking down from the ivory tower all the time...
Nailed on players
Root at 4/5 (retire him from all white ball)
Stokes at 5/6 and not bowling as he’s broken so at 28 can focus on being a red ball batter ( retire him from 2020)
Anderson (not match fit and old so we have to hope he recovers form - obviously purely tests)
Broad - keep for tests
The rest need a mixture of managing properly, saving from being ground into the ground (archer for example) or simply telling to go away until they learn how to play red ball cricket.. or in Bairstow case...remove his central contract
We have too many players who are either simply not good enough or over rated. Just look how we over rate our batsmen who avg 30’s... sure they are capable of purple patches or the odd innings but that’s about it . Archer looked awesome for the odd spell but has done nothing since.. wood the same .. one innings and is living off it
Curran tbf to him is taking pegs much to my horror but he’s no world beater and is nothing more than a lower order biffer.. we are building him up to be something he isn’t. Mitch marsh anyone ..... he’s also got a few good knocks in his time etc
Archer - give him a role .. short spells and retire him from 2020 . Look to rest him as much as possible to ensure his pace remains high
I know I moan a lot about England but it’s because I at least expect them to play the situation and have the right technique/mentality. This cluster of players since our good side just don’t have it consistently. Odd innings here and there but nothing consistent. Then they come out with ‘brand of cricket’ or some such crap and pick players like Bairstow over Foakes.. Denly isn’t good enough and is old but at least he dug in and tried. Bairstow and others just go out all gun ho and wonder why they fail more often than not. That’s why I get annoyed at them and I hate when people bang on about ‘back the lads’.. no, You don’t just back players unless they deserve it. Players like Roy don’t deserve backing because they are simply never upto it. We are wasting time, money and resources on producing these players for anything but white ball.
County cricket needs money pumping into red ball specialists otherwise England nd world cricket in the test arena will keep the terminal decline in standards. No wonder attendances are down as the quality is jut not there and there is less and less competitive games
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Quite simply we have a world class ODI set up and a bang average year set up.
Hell we can all see that Foakes should be in the side at the expense of both Butler and Bairstow. But at the first opportunity we discard Crawley after one test and 1 innings and put YJB back in.
We can’t get Archer to replicate what he can do in 10 overs in a ODI into a test match, our best batter is hampered with also being captain which is impacting his batting massively.
We haven’t had a decent spinner since Swann retired and for some reason don’t look like getting a replacement soon.
The test match side needs to be reviewed like our ODI side was a few years back
These players for white ball weren’t produced a few years ago. Look at their ages.. thry have been a product of a white ball heavy system for 8-12 years now. The system has been moving from grass roots upwards to white ball for a long while no. Sure the ECB changed a bit which helped the main team but these guys didn’t just suddnely come along as they are all 28-30.. the system changed back in the mid late 2000’s
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Root and Thorpe both need to be sacked.
Root is a lousy skipper and Thorpe has failed in his role s batting coach.
Who else is there to replace root ??
Ramps then Thorpe.. no wonder but let’s be honest.... these guys don’t and shouldn’t need coaching at test level as that learning should have been done at amateur and county level
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Poor field from root, no slips on this wicket
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Pathetic from archer - no apology for his two beamers. The guys attitude is seriously poor
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Nothing more heart warming than an international fast bowler not using the facilities - amazing :D
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A shambles of a day. Embarrassing
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I’d assume 250 would be the most we could possibly chase. If the South Africans push it close to 300 I don’t see us winning.
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As much as there has been criticism of the way Archer has been managed, the handling of Butler has been every bit as bad. As things stand, the difference between the two sides on a challenging batting pitch as been a superb counter-attacking display by De Kock. Butler is as capable as any player in world cricket to match that sort of innings to take the game away from the opposition but instead he is being sent in to scratch around going no where until he gets a good ball. If Butler is in the side, he needs the freedom from the team management to produce game changing innings, not to be expected to drop anchor.
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As much as there has been criticism of the way Archer has been managed, the handling of Butler has been every bit as bad. As things stand, the difference between the two sides on a challenging batting pitch as been a superb counter-attacking display by De Kock. Butler is as capable as any player in world cricket to match that sort of innings to take the game away from the opposition but instead he is being sent in to scratch around going no where until he gets a good ball. If Butler is in the side, he needs the freedom from the team management to produce game changing innings, not to be expected to drop anchor.
Trouble is over half the team all go in and just attack (or pay their way regardless).. everyone can’t just be allowed to attack regardless
I don’t disagree though that at 7, buttler would probably be best served by just playing his ODI game. Sadly we have have a 4/5/6/8/9 all doing the same and that’ll rarely work
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Du Plessis apparently running off to the match referee about the Archer thing.
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Trouble is over half the team all go in and just attack (or pay their way regardless).. everyone can’t just be allowed to attack regardless
I don’t disagree though that at 7, buttler would probably be best served by just playing his ODI game. Sadly we have have a 4/5/6/8/9 all doing the same and that’ll rarely work
I disagree that Stokes simply goes in to attach, he has shown over the last 12 months superb judgment when it comes to the reading of a game situation and what is required. Likewise, I don't see anything from Pope in his first class career to date which would suggest that he can't adapt his game. But for illness he would be playing here.
Ultimately it comes down to the top 3 and their inability to build partnerships at the top of the order. For me Denly has looked the most composed and well organised but you can't build a platform on a top 3 who don't average more than 30.
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I disagree that Stokes simply goes in to attach, he has shown over the last 12 months superb judgment when it comes to the reading of a game situation and what is required. Likewise, I don't see anything from Pope in his first class career to date which would suggest that he can't adapt his game. But for illness he would be playing here.
Ultimately it comes down to the top 3 and their inability to build partnerships at the top of the order. For me Denly has looked the most composed and well organised but you can't build a platform on a top 3 who don't average more than 30.
This team has been the same since what, 2015 onwards.. stokes today was too aggressive and paid the price. Bairstow, Roy, hales vince Etc. Stokes avg 35 shows that whilst we know he can play the situation and can produce a world class innings he is also very capable of playing like today.. a bit too one day mode and not willing to grind it. It’s about consistency remember . We know he can.. it’s just he needs to do it game after game after game
How often does root nick off ? Today again, open face ‘seduced by the open 3rd man’.. it’s test cricket.. just leave it .. one day mode sees him wanting to hit it though.
Just small things like that
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This team has been the same since what, 2015 onwards.. stokes today was too aggressive and paid the price. Bairstow, Roy, hales vince Etc. Stokes avg 35 shows that whilst we know he can play the situation and can produce a world class innings he is also very capable of playing like today.. a bit too one day mode and not willing to grind it. It’s about consistency remember . We know he can.. it’s just he needs to do it game after game after game
How often does root nick off ? Today again, open face ‘seduced by the open 3rd man’.. it’s test cricket.. just leave it .. one day mode sees him wanting to hit it though.
Just small things like that
I am not sure where grinding gets you on a surface like this where you will are never in and will get an unplayable ball at some point. The only man from either team to make a serious score is the one who looked to play positively or "white ball mode" as it seems to be now known
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I am not sure where grinding gets you on a surface like this where you will are never in and will get an unplayable ball at some point. The only man from either team to make a serious score is the one who looked to play positively or "white ball mode" as it seems to be now known
He wasn’t the only one .. sigh.. he was just the one who has come off on the day
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He wasn’t the only one .. sigh.. he was just the one who has come off on the day
And that's probably the difference between the teams. Sometimes it goes your way and other times it doesn't - Doesn't mean England's approach has been wrong, looks like a proper variable bounce pitch where you're never really in so can't blame players having a bit of a dip.
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And that's probably the difference between the teams. Sometimes it goes your way and other times it doesn't - Doesn't mean England's approach has been wrong, looks like a proper variable bounce pitch where you're never really in so can't blame players having a bit of a dip.
Well you can as they do it most games and it’s an approach that doesn’t come off very often
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Buttler unwell bairstow has the gloves
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This has been an underwhelming first hour
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Buttler unwell bairstow has the gloves
Root off the field as well also gone down unwell
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Has anyone in the history of sports commentary loved the sound of his own voice more than Mark Nicholas?
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Archer has been pretty pants despite the two wickets
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Archer has been pretty pants despite the two wickets
Lucky to still me bowling. Spineless umpiring yesterday to overturn that no ball
Great effort so far from nortje
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Lucky to still me bowling. Spineless umpiring yesterday to overturn that no ball
Great effort so far from nortje
Seems to have fired up Nortje as well. Might not be too pretty if Archer has to face him
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May as well just cancel this tour considering everyone is ill
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Bairstow marvellous keeper...
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More misfortune for England, Markram out of the series with a broken hand. They'll probably find someone better to replace him...
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Can't believe Nortje is still going, he looks a genuine rabbit. Pretty poor from England, now is when you need that spinner.
Good job there's a decent gap between games with the rate players are dropping ill! Call Ben Foakes up and put him in a separate hotel.
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Lucky to still me bowling. Spineless umpiring yesterday to overturn that no ball
Great effort so far from nortje
The second one wasn't a no ball though.. went through at just below waist height made to look worse by the way Nortje played it
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I don't know if this is moronic management and captaincy, or moronic decision-making by the players, because it's difficult to watch.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Root doesn't seem to be one to mix things up when it;s not going well (change bowlers in 2-3 over spells, bowl a part-timer, stop everything for an angry huddle and bollocking), we just seem to drift aimlessly, making the same mistake.
Also - does no English bowler use a yorker in 5 day cricket?
Norkie (or whatever he's called) is a very, very brave bugger, but I get more in line than he does!!!!
As an England fan, this is torture, like watching us throw the whole test away before my very eyes!
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Nice to see stokes and broad go at each other during the drinks break
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Would love to know what was said
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@FattusCattus the lack of yorkers to tailenders seems to have been an England plan for about a decade now. Hugely frustrating.
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Has anyone in the history of sports commentary loved the sound of his own voice more than Mark Nicholas?
Yes Micheal Vaughan, good captain, very good player but would eat himself if he was a chocolate bar.
We are all still grateful for 2005 but look at the bowling and batting attack he had to use.
Great captains often have match winners in their teams.
Harmison at his best
Jones
Hoggard
Flintoff
Giles did a bit..
Tres
Strauss
Bell
Kp
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What is the point in Curran bowling left arm round? He got all his wickets in the first innings bowling over and snicking players off. Just doesn’t make any sense.
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This is so, so poor. All the talk before the NZ tests about a new direction; it's the same stagnant crap as before
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Bored now so predictions for our batting effort (in carded order)
Burns scratch around for 20-30 Nick off to a good ball
Sibley - dig in good application bowled/caught behind working to leg
Denly - digs in well looks the best 40-50 and out
Root - looks class for 15 caught wafting/fishing outside off
Stokes - 70 odd in rear guard effort out late on
Bairstow gets 5-10 bowled through the gate
Buttler - Nick off early driving
Curran - quick fire 25 caught out hitting
Archer - out early
Broad - why bother
Anderson - 0*
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Archer somehow has 5
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God! This whole side needs an (No Swearing Please)-firework!!!!
No-one looks interested! Get this last wicket, and then please let's have a batsman who goes after them rather than grubbing around for a painful defeat!
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Archer should thank the umpire for that 5 wicket haul
Lead past 360 now. SA have plenty.
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Well, we're not chasing that
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Bairstow with a catch, does he merit a knighthood for that?
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Umpire Gaffaney has gone from a top umpire into an absolutely dreadful one
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Even if the balance is still very firmly in SA's favour, encouraging to see England playing with some intent.
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Decent start from the openers so far. Pitch not doing as much as day 2
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Amazing what can happen when you just apply yourself a little bit
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Ah gutted for Sibley - would have loved to have seen England 100-0 - I’ve forgotten what that feels like!
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And I'd been deliberately avoiding saying anything about Sibley playing really well... damn.
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Sibley might not have got a huge score but facing 90 balls is a lot closer to what you'd want from your opener than previous occupants.
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I'd have taken that at the end of the day, to be honest. Just hope these two can carry on grinding it out tomorrow
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Burns really was a good pick. People had been crying out for him for years to get in the set up and now they've picked him he's scored 6 50s and 2 hundreds at an average in the mid 30s, pretty good going. Denly is coming into his own at 3, we've just got to stop root being a terrible captain, and getting himself out, and bairstow needs to be dropped until he learns to hit a straight ball and we are looking like a decent outfit. Still a long way to go, but good signs are there
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Eng will be bowled out tomorrow for 230/240
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Nooo!...
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Much better from us a lot of determination and picking the balls to play. Can’t believe I read on here sometimes ‘have a dip’ that cannot surely be the way on any pitch unless we are left right with the tail....
Sibley has started off at least showing something like Burns did in his first couple of games which is promising.
Can’t see any coverage except a few clips on sky so don’t know what to make of Archers 5 wickets at over 6 an over seems a bit odd.
But much better, chances are we will lose tomorrow but a solid start is what we have desperately needed
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Archer bowled crap
He bowled about 7 good balls and took 5 wickets
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Got a chance tomorrow now I guess would back SA 7 out of 10 times I reckon but if we can get through the first 30mins with the ball now 35 overs old if we can get to maybe 3 down before next new ball and about 100 away we could pull this out the bag. If we do pull off a win then we can put this piss poor bowling performance down to the illness going around and maybe just an off day. Would also love to see Denly get the big score that I personally think he deserves, been arguably our best bat over the last 4 tests along with Burns
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Denly has the experience we need with 2 newish openers in. They say batting is in the head he bats according to the situation the team is in.
He’s 33, for the life of me cannot figure why that makes any difference. Root also needs some experience around him, he is I’m afraid a poor Captain lacking instinct and experience.
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Archer bowled crap
He bowled about 7 good balls and took 5 wickets
Is that not the job of a strike bowler? It reminds me a bit of when Steve Finn came into the test team. He was taking his wickets at an exceptional strike rate but there was a preoccupation with his economy rate.
With 2 experienced seamers in the team in Broad and Anderson, Archers role in the side should be to give it everything in short bursts to take wickets and not worry about bowling bad balls or trying to dry the runs up
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Is that not the job of a strike bowler? It reminds me a bit of when Steve Finn came into the test team. He was taking his wickets at an exceptional strike rate but there was a preoccupation with his economy rate.
With 2 experienced seamers in the team in Broad and Anderson, Archers role in the side should be to give it everything in short bursts to take wickets and not worry about bowling bad balls or trying to dry the runs up
Its fine with that approach if you have a group of batsman to knock off the runs, hmmmmmmm.................
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There’s still plenty in the pitch for the bowlers, Maharaj bowled a couple that basically rolled on the ground. Rabada has been pathetic so far. We should smash him around. Wreck him.
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I'll never get tired of Rabada getting hooked for six
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Huge amount for these two to do but they both have the temperament to forget the scoreboard.
As long as we bat like this I’m happy whatever the result :)
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Awful from Rory
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Moment of madness Burns..... Could have been so much better
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Couldn’t agree more, on an up and down pitch why would you play the hook shot to the 2nd ball of a new bowlers spell. Don’t get me wrong I’m all for being positive but that wasn’t smart cricket Mr Burns
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I'll never get tired of Rabada getting hooked for six
Denly just hooked him for 6 for a 2nd time this innings.
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Oh Ben! That really looked like a percentage (ie 'get into trouble' shot)
All of a sudden it's a minefield - we won't be mentally tough enough for this.
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I say, this could be a career-defining innings for Bairstow
Does anyone know how Buttler is?
Also - how's that 100 run defecit looking now? Argghhh!!!
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This was always a tall order, especially on this pitch. The fact we've shown some application is positive as its not the kind of pitch where you're ever set. New ball will be the killer I reckon, although I hope I'm proved wrong.
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At least bairstow wasnt bowled!
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Absolute moron. Braindead.
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Can we donate Bairstow to another country?
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I say, this could be a career-defining innings for Bairstow
Probably not what you meant but i think you were right.
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Hopefully that’s the last we see of Bairstow in the test side for a very long time
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Maybe now Bairstow will actually have to earn his place in the Test side back instead of being gifted to him. Not holding my breath for that though.
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Not the best shot from JB but funny how there wasn't the same level of condemnation for Burns or Stokes when playing dubious shots and getting out too.
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Maybe now Bairstow will actually have to earn his place in the Test side back instead of being gifted to him. Not holding my breath for that though.
Send him to the airport now and call up Foakes FFS. How would Crawley have done any worse than him in this match, only benefit was when Butler was off the field yesterday. His last chance must now have finally come
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Not the best shot from JB but funny how there wasn't the same level of condemnation for Burns or Stokes when playing dubious shots and getting out too.
Burns and Stokes aren't averaging 18 this calendar year.
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Not the best shot from JB but funny how there wasn't the same level of condemnation for Burns or Stokes when playing dubious shots and getting out too.
For a period of time they actually showed some application. Jonny just fished at a new ball without even a thought
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Not the best shot from JB but funny how there wasn't the same level of condemnation for Burns or Stokes when playing dubious shots and getting out too.
They actually quoted Bairstow's stats on eothe Sky or The Cricket Social yesterday. Since his one good summer his average has consistently been dropping year on year.
Hopefully they put him on a flight back home and don't call him up again until he's got a shed load of county championship runs under his belt (I won't hold my breath though)
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I’m not entirely sure Bairstow has a brain.
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Not the best shot from JB but funny how there wasn't the same level of condemnation for Burns or Stokes when playing dubious shots and getting out too.
There is similar condemnation for these players! Just not from the media/ECB or those refuse to see these players failings. However!!! Bairstow has been awful for a long time and his technique and mentality is shot . He should be stripped of his test contrAct and sent to never play again. He’s 29/30 anyway and has been given enough chances to fail.
Not that this team or management will have the kahunas . England have shown fight but still too many shots. Buttler is wafting a way,
As is root!! Just leave the bloody ball if it’s not hitting the stumps !!!!!
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They actually quoted Bairstow's stats on eothe Sky or The Cricket Social yesterday. Since his one good summer his average has consistently been dropping year on year.
Hopefully they put him on a flight back home and don't call him up again until he's got a shed load of county championship runs under his belt (I won't hold my breath though)
Not just runs!! Like ballance he needs to change his technique and mentality too before anyone should even start to consider him again. Red ball central contract should be stripped off him (ahooodnt have got one this year in the first place )
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That's that then...
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Someone please defend root. He’s been flashing off the front and back foot outside off loads and finally, yet again nicks off.. why oh why is a supposed ‘world class’ batsmen not able to adapt and just leave the bloody thing alone !!!
Game over as Buttler is nibbling at balls too and the rest can’t bat
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We are so bad.
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We are so bad.
World class.. media, ECB and many fans keep saying so tho !! How many here won’t have a bad word said about most of this group of players ?!?
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Flat track bully root - when was the last time he got runs when it wasn’t a road
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It’s insulting to Smith and Kohli that Root used to be mentioned in the same breath as them when discussing the best batsmen in the world. He only gets easy runs these days... a bit like Sir Ian Bell.
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Root was always 4th in the list with the others but does not do hard runs which all the best do, since becoming captain he is going downhill when his potential is up there with the best we had.
Bairstow just does not have at this level but we knew that 12 months ago.
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Looking forward to archer getting bounced by rabada and nortje
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Bit of a let down that, nortje getting him
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Why do the commentary team keep saying archer can bat?
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I’ll be honest, we’ve missed Jack Leach.....‘s batting! Honestly the bloke should be at 8 in this test side
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Yeah bowling and batting. Butler has no one to bat with now
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This Nortje fella has been pretty impressive, prior to this series Steyn had been hyping him up. Saw him against India, aside from getting Kohli out looked wild. The pace has been incredible. Whenever he bowls he’s around 145kph.
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So, overall, another embarrassing performance with the bat. Just when will the penny drop?
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Buttler gone now. Test match lost.
Well we know that Root never scores runs when it matters. If we are being honest maybe used to be mentioned in the top 4 batters but at the moment not even in the worlds top 10.
Bairstow is just not good enough for test cricket and doesn’t when the mindset or technique to make it.
Butler bats to low at No7 with this tail and also really isn’t good enough for Test cricket.
Selection is just shot to pieces, no spinner, best keeper not selected time and time again. Miss managed potentially our best, quickest bowler since coming into the side.
Have to agree with a few on here that have been saying for a while, we are not a very good test match side at the moment
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107 runs, what was the first inning deficit???
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Why the F*** are England players shaking each other’s hands and patting on the back after that performance!
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Yes bairstow isn't good enough but let's not forget he only played as pope was I'll!
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Seems strange that Nortje got peppered yet still try to preserve his wicket. Yet loudmouth Broad backs away and gives up
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Cape Town is usually a seamer friendly track, Philander averages some like 17 there. But we need a spinner. I’d drop Anderson as he was non existent in this match.
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England won one series all year and that was to Ireland.
Time to blame the illness around the camp for this loss
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Now for the excuses! There isn't any
What went wrong:
Toss
111-5 to 284
181 so
After that it was actually a decent fight back I think, just left far too much to do!
Bug series now! Need to get a spinner in! For who? Have a feeling it will be Curran but should be one of the others!
Good things from this test:
Burns we have an opener
Denly we have a 3
Curran showing a nack of taking wickets
Bairstow has proven he's gone to shlt and needs to go back to headingley and score shed loads
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The Giles, Smith, Silverwood & Root era continues to impress.
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Root got his excuse in there early - blaming illness
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Seems strange that Nortje got peppered yet still try to preserve his wicket. Yet loudmouth Broad backs away and gives up
Couldn’t agree more, I can only imagine what getting mashed in the face at 85mph does to you but that was many years ago now.
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Yes bairstow isn't good enough but let's not forget he only played as pope was I'll!
Umm, why was he even there ? Why was he even in South Africa training ??? The answer is he was always going to be in the squad when he isn’t good enough to be . Hell, he’s got a red ball central contract when he shouldn’t have one
Stop defending these blokes who have proven over time they aren’t upto it with averages in the low- mid 30’s
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Root got his excuse in there early - blaming illness
Think I just heard him say “everyone of the lads stepped up as best they could and they didn’t let anyone down” really Joe, bloody ECB yes man, couldn’t be more wrong in that assessment
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Bairstow has proven he's gone to shlt and needs to go back to headingley and score shed loads
At Bairstow’s age it seems unlikely that he will want to do that. There’s more probability that he ditches red ball cricket. And makes millions as a T20 globe-trotter
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Yes bairstow isn't good enough but let's not forget he only played as pope was I'll!
Why didn’t we play Crawley, young bat who proved his selection based on scoring top order runs in Div 1 last year . Look at how well Aus have done by picking youth and sticking with youths
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Couldn’t agree more, I can only imagine what getting mashed in the face at 85mph does to you but that was many years ago now.
I want all players to show fight, you all know I do but it’s not their job.
Burns out pulling .. why?!? Don’t five me crap about being positive etc.. two days to bat !! Don’t play anything you don’t have too!!!
Sibley, he fought tbf
Denly fought but still.. only play what you have too!
Root.. well.. constantly flashing and nibbling at the ball yet again! Why do people still call for him to move up the order or say he’s not got a weakness... again, leave the bloody ball alone !!
Stokes.. showed us a few times he can leave /defend.. why doesn’t he play that way consistently and keeps reverting back to wanting to dominate and play all ‘positive’.. an avg of 36 is it shows that this is what he is sadly
Bairstow.. laughable he’s even in the squad
Buttler .. feel for the lad. He deserves A batting spot still but is being left high
And dry . I don’t think he’s good enough for test cricket unless he’s at 7 behind a genuine test top six and able to come out and Gilchrist it
Curran .. laughable people think he’s some great batter in the making!! Hit a ball mirchant time and time again.
Archer. This lad can bat!! So we are told... yet to see it
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Umm, why was he even there ? Why was he even in South Africa training ??? The answer is he was always going to be in the squad when he isn’t good enough to be . Hell, he’s got a red ball central contract when he shouldn’t have one
Stop defending these blokes who have proven over time they aren’t upto it with averages in the low- mid 30’s
I'm not defending him in the slightest! He shouldn't have been there, only making the point he only played as pope was Ill
I've made it very clear that I think foakes should be in the side!!!!
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Silverwood sounds just like Moores in this interview. Excuse after excuse, work in progress etc. Giving Sibley credit for scoring 29. TWENTY NINE.
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I’d probably have him in but Foakes isn’t half getting better by his absence. Top class keeper and a middling county batsman, but reading on here you’d think he was Bradman. If he’d scored a run all summer for Surrey he might well have got a call up.
Big saving grace will be SA’s quota system. With Markram out Malan is likely the obvious pick, but that leaves them short of the quota again. So likely Bavuma (who’s a bit poo) comes in and one of him or vdD opens. If fit Lungi maybe even comes in for Nortje too.
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I’d probably have him in but Foakes isn’t half getting better by his absence. Top class keeper and a middling county batsman, but reading on here you’d think he was Bradman. If he’d scored a run all summer for Surrey he might well have got a call up.
Big saving grace will be SA’s quota system. With Markram out Malan is likely the obvious pick, but that leaves them short of the quota again. So likely Bavuma (who’s a bit poo) comes in and one of him or vdD opens. If fit Lungi maybe even comes in for Nortje too.
They've called up K Petersen (hit hundred against us in a warm up) to replace markram
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Interesting, still think they’ll try and fiddle Bavuma in if fit.
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Graeme Smith won’t care about the quota requirements. He wants to beat England. They’ll shoehorn some matches against Zimbabwe yo boost the numbers at a later date
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Big saving grace will be SA’s quota system. With Markram out Malan is likely the obvious pick, but that leaves them short of the quota again. So likely Bavuma (who’s a bit poo) comes in and one of him or vdD opens. If fit Lungi maybe even comes in for Nortje too.
What are South Africa’s quota requirements for the Test team?
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What are South Africa’s quota requirements for the Test team?
3 black Africans
3 Asian or mixed raced player
Max 5 white players
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This is the same SA side who were hammered by India on the subcontinent by pace. This is still one of the worst SA batting line ups
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This is the same SA side who were hammered by India on the subcontinent by pace. This is still one of the worst SA batting line ups
The same crappy lineup that just beat England 😂
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3 black Africans
3 Asian or mixed raced player
Max 5 white players
It’s also an average, not per match.
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Philander to Somerset on Kolpak looks great deal for us!
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Philander will take an absolute mountain of wickets on early season English wickets.
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The same crappy lineup that just beat England 😂
This SA side isn’t very good. It’s just england are over rated and won’t have a bad word said about its players
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Have to agree, England need to seriously evaluate their test selection process and be prepared to be hyper critical. Pope getting sick was unlucky but the likes of Bairstow and Buttler are very lucky to still be there.
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Have to agree, England need to seriously evaluate their test selection process and be prepared to be hyper critical. Pope getting sick was unlucky but the likes of Bairstow and Buttler are very lucky to still be there.
Buttler isn’t lucky to be there, he has deserve to keep his spot for a bit longer but Bairstow really should have been kicked into touch a long while ago. He’s lived on his purple patch for too long and then random good knocks. Buttler has probably only got another series and then should be re evaluated. If he’s not scoring the runs consistently then he’s not good enough.
Foakes might not be the answer but better to give people a 10 test stint than keep these players who have played 30+ tests and still have avg’s in the 30’s Etc
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None of this matters as we won’t find any better players until the cricket system is overhauled. If it’s not, this will continue and get worse until they dumb down tests more or make them more just two one day innings style games.
The system from saturday league to pro simply isn’t geared up to produce or promote red ball techniques or mentalities or skills. It’s all set up to produce white ball players and has been for years now.. like 15
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George Dobell reporting that Jack Leach won't be available for the second Test - and could be sent home
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Ok, so lets put away the pitchforks for a moment and look at the facts, and what we have to work with.
I don't think there are many players in County Cricket who would jump ahead of many in the squad - however, there are several possibilities that need to be considered, things that I feel the Captain / Coach / Selectors are running away from, or are too scared to address (I know I will get pilloried for some of these, but you can't move forwards by looking backwards)
1) Stick with Burns / Sibley / Crawley - they might not be getting mountains of runs, but they are the future and they need a chance to fail in order to gain the experience to succeed
2) It is time to relieve Root of the Captaincy - parachute someone in for a year or try Stokes out, but do something for f*cks sake!
3) Pick your best keeper/batsman for Tests - it's Foakes, don't debate it, just get him in and give him a run
4) We need to bed in a spinner - I dont think Leach is a test spinner and I don't care about his tail-end runs, bed an out and out wicket-taker in now
5) I don't think Broad and Anderson have much more to give. I don't think they should both be in the same side at the same time, they don't hit the stumps enough and they don't take enough wickets - one or the other, no time for misty-eyed sentiment.
Gentlemen, we are currently going down the khazi - get the match-winners in, let them fail a few times, show a little faith and watch us rise again.
The tail is wagging the dog!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Ok, so lets put away the pitchforks for a moment and look at the facts, and what we have to work with.
I don't think there are many players in County Cricket who would jump ahead of many in the squad - however, there are several possibilities that need to be considered, things that I feel the Captain / Coach / Selectors are running away from, or are too scared to address (I know I will get pilloried for some of these, but you can't move forwards by looking backwards)
1) Stick with Burns / Sibley / Crawley - they might not be getting mountains of runs, but they are the future and they need a chance to fail in order to gain the experience to succeed
2) It is time to relieve Root of the Captaincy - parachute someone in for a year or try Stokes out, but do something for f*cks sake!
3) Pick your best keeper/batsman for Tests - it's Foakes, don't debate it, just get him in and give him a run
4) We need to bed in a spinner - I dont think Leach is a test spinner and I don't care about his tail-end runs, bed an out and out wicket-taker in now
5) I don't think Broad and Anderson have much more to give. I don't think they should both be in the same side at the same time, they don't hit the stumps enough and they don't take enough wickets - one or the other, no time for misty-eyed sentiment.
Gentlemen, we are currently going down the khazi - get the match-winners in, let them fail a few times, show a little faith and watch us rise again.
The tail is wagging the dog!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Agree with Bruce on Burns, Sibley and Crawley. Give them a good run.
Pope- give him a good run at 6
Root to be removed as skipper.. however.. stokes? Why? He avg 36 and currently can’t really bowl (let’s be frank, his knee is chronic so he won’t bowl for much longer anyway).. does he really justify his spot as a pure test batter ?
Foakes .. definitely get him in but he won’t be a messiah.
Agree on broad and Anderson but who is there to replace them or any genuine quality ?
This as Bruce says is the issue for every spot really.. there just isn’t anything coming through that isn’t just another ‘meh’ player
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We need a culture change. We need to stop pandering to the undropables.
I am usually all in for consistency of selection. But this has been going on for far too long.
Root has to be sacked as skipper.
Sibley isn't up to it and will be binary against Sri Lanka.
Bairstow should be binned.
More controversially I am binning Broad and Anderson too.
The reality is that they are hurting the team. They aren't attacking the stumps and it is time to move on.
In Archer we have an extraordinary talent which we aren't using right.
Sam Curran may be medium paced but thrives on the pressure, they should be given the new ball.
Woakes or Overton can be the first change.
We need to work out if Stokes is able to bowl or if he is just a batter. If that is the case, fine we need a different all rounder.
We also need a keeper to run the team in the field. Balance the team properly.
I am also sacking Thorpe the batting coach. He has been responsible for the academy/lions and now England batting for a long time. Technically our batters are poor.
That needs to change.
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We need a culture change. We need to stop pandering to the undropables.
I am usually all in for consistency of selection. But this has been going on for far too long.
Root has to be sacked as skipper.
Sibley isn't up to it and will be binary against Sri Lanka.
Bairstow should be binned.
More controversially I am binning Broad and Anderson too.
The reality is that they are hurting the team. They aren't attacking the stumps and it is time to move on.
In Archer we have an extraordinary talent which we aren't using right.
Sam Curran may be medium paced but thrives on the pressure, they should be given the new ball.
Woakes or Overton can be the first change.
We need to work out if Stokes is able to bowl or if he is just a batter. If that is the case, fine we need a different all rounder.
We also need a keeper to run the team in the field. Balance the team properly.
I am also sacking Thorpe the batting coach. He has been responsible for the academy/lions and now England batting for a long time. Technically our batters are poor.
That needs to change.
I’d also clesr the entire England coaching set up out as they are all tainted. However, where is our generation of greats like SA have just finally installed or some of the aussies etc
We could get sangakkara in maybe for a start ? Ponting ? Warne for the spinners.. Murili ?
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Can we just bring back Andy Flower? He took no bs
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Can we just bring back Andy Flower? He took no bs
What’s wrong with bringing in Nasser, athers, warne, ponting, sangakkara, mcgrath Etc.. some greats who modern players simply can’t ignore
Obviously the first two are far from greats !!
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Nasser's just an opinionated pundit. Sangakkara's the MCC president, and newly appointed. Ponting too busy with CA, dunno what you'd get from someone like McGrath. Probably not much.
#FlowerIn
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We need a culture change. We need to stop pandering to the undropables.
We need a side that has a clear plan, clear leadership and eleven players who are somewhere close to being in form, and in their correct position.
In the current squad, we have no clear plan, limited leadership and a lot of undeniably talented players who are not in any kind of form.
How to get from one to the other?
1.Sack Root. We need Root the batsman more than we need Root the leader, and as captain he has gone from one of the top 3-4 players in the world to a bit of an also ran. Stokes will bowl less and less as time goes on and, if not a tactical genius, is at least a leader of men.
2.Give players a decent run in the team. Burns, Denly and Pope should all be picked consistently through the winter and the first series of the English Summer. They've all done some silly things, but if they were the best available when picked, then they ought to be the best available still.
3.1 and 2 give us a clear idea of five of our top 6 - and I would give Sibley more time as the other. Foakes should be playing as a specialist keeper so my third point would be a litmus test - Bairstow (and to a lesser extent Buttler) are quality players in awful form - they should be invited to choose between their IPL riches and 6 games in green conditions proving their first class credentials.
4. Then we come to the bowling. If Stokes is only going to bowl 8-10 a day, which is where we are now (at best) then either Leach or Virdi needs to be there as a spinner who can block an end. Archer should be allowed to bowl fast, attacking lines (but not consistently fast, short ones) and Curran bears a run in the team. Anderson or Broad, not and. Oh, and get the right Overton in the squad, please.
5. Learn from Vern. Having a seamer who hits areas and moves it around is priceless. The likes of Roland-Jones, Coad and Porter should be seriously considered.
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Separate the Test team from ODI and T-20s. Unless a players shows the right aptitude for Test matches, he shouldn't be in the side. Denly, Burns, and S. Curran are good additions to the team. One of them should be looked at for the skipper's role. This Curran kid has fight in him.
I saw few of Butler's shots and as great a white ball player he is, he can't help himself. The way he got out was just bad!
Bring a new captain , Root is not captaincy material. Follow the blueprint that led England to the CWC2019 victory - a new Test captain that only plays Test cricket with a team mostly comprising Test players.
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comprising Test players.
Problem.... the system is simply not producing test players... it’s producing white ball players
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We need a side that has a clear plan, clear leadership and eleven players who are somewhere close to being in form, and in their correct position.
In the current squad, we have no clear plan, limited leadership and a lot of undeniably talented players who are not in any kind of form.
How to get from one to the other?
1.Sack Root. We need Root the batsman more than we need Root the leader, and as captain he has gone from one of the top 3-4 players in the world to a bit of an also ran. Stokes will bowl less and less as time goes on and, if not a tactical genius, is at least a leader of men.
2.Give players a decent run in the team. Burns, Denly and Pope should all be picked consistently through the winter and the first series of the English Summer. They've all done some silly things, but if they were the best available when picked, then they ought to be the best available still.
3.1 and 2 give us a clear idea of five of our top 6 - and I would give Sibley more time as the other. Foakes should be playing as a specialist keeper so my third point would be a litmus test - Bairstow (and to a lesser extent Buttler) are quality players in awful form - they should be invited to choose between their IPL riches and 6 games in green conditions proving their first class credentials.
4. Then we come to the bowling. If Stokes is only going to bowl 8-10 a day, which is where we are now (at best) then either Leach or Virdi needs to be there as a spinner who can block an end. Archer should be allowed to bowl fast, attacking lines (but not consistently fast, short ones) and Curran bears a run in the team. Anderson or Broad, not and. Oh, and get the right Overton in the squad, please.
5. Learn from Vern. Having a seamer who hits areas and moves it around is priceless. The likes of Roland-Jones, Coad and Porter should be seriously considered.
Is there an echo in here - I knew I was a genius?
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Right, who's sending the last 6 or 7 posts to the ECB? We know what we're talking about!
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Can we just bring back Andy Flower? He took no bs
Hmm, isn’t he the guy who allowed a bunch of players to control the dressing room and lost Ashes in Aus and blamed other folks. Instead of resigning he ended up in charge of One of the academy where the current lot were sent for improvement.
Thanks but no thanks.
Edit: Anyone on the forum able to read lips? Would love to find out what the heated discussion was about between Stokes and Broad.
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I don't suppose anyone on Twitter would like to tweet the last 3 pages to George Dobell at Cricinfo.
He might actually mention the nation's feelings to someone important, or the feelings of the fans might get a bit of press!!
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I don't suppose anyone on Twitter would like to tweet the last 3 pages to George Dobell at Cricinfo.
He might actually mention the nation's feelings to someone important, or the feelings of the fans might get a bit of press!!
He’s too close to the ECB and players to be critical.
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Dobell is the one journalist who says it as it is.
He has been scathing.
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Are you sure Eeyore? He's been pretty damn critical in the past - not so much of individual players, but certainly of coaching strategy and selection.
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Dobell is the one journalist who says it as it is.
He has been scathing.
Hear, hear Buzzard - he's no ECB puppet
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I was gonna say he in the middle of a libel thing against the ECB
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Problem.... the system is simply not producing test players... it’s producing white ball players
System is encouraging and facilitating white ball players but I am sure there is red ball talent out there. Not everyone can play high-strike-rate cricket, there must be patient, slow and boring players out there who need a separate lane. Separate teams, separate captains.
PS: It is not just an England problem. Plenty of other cricketing nations have the same issue.
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System is encouraging and facilitating white ball players but I am sure there is red ball talent out there. Not everyone can play high-strike-rate cricket, there must be patient, slow and boring players out there who need a separate lane. Separate teams, separate captains.
PS: It is not just an England problem. Plenty of other cricketing nations have the same issue.
Every nation has the same issue because every nation is prioritising white ball. Hence the dearth of talent at test level and the weakness of the red ball game all around the world. There are many many many ‘red ball’ players out there but where will they see idols? What format will they play and learn their game ? What pathway do they get ?
See the problem yet ?
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Except for the fact that both NZ and SA can produce more of a test XI than we can - so how does that work?
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Every nation has the same issue because every nation is prioritising white ball. Hence the dearth of talent at test level and the weakness of the red ball game all around the world. There are many many many ‘red ball’ players out there but where will they see idols? What format will they play and learn their game ? What pathway do they get ?
See the problem yet ?
You are making my point: Separate lanes. You can call it "encouragement" or "prioritization". Many domestic circuits have 3-4 day cricket matches, so opportunity is there. If England is not doing it, they should start now. Get a new Test captain like Morgan who just plays Test, follow the same blue print as ODI journey to CWC 2019 win.
I repeat, there are plenty of red-ball cricketers out there (who suck at white-ball cricket). England's white-ball "prioritization" didn't make Alistair Cook a great white ball opener. Separate lanes ( for them ) are needed. Treat Test cricket as a "different" skill set, appoint captains who understand that. Give growth time and schedule games for seasons. People who run cricket understand all this.
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PS: It is not just an England problem. Plenty of other cricketing nations have the same issue.
Agreed, but all of them have managed to deal with it better than England. Majority of the teams have test only Or one day specialist and the board has ensured compensation accordingly.
India: Pujara, Rahane, Sharma, Saha
Aus: Paine, Lyon, Burns, Finch (one day)
Pak: Azhar Ali, Asad Safiq
SA: Elgar, Hamza
NZ: Raval, Watling, Neesham, Guptill (one day)
I think England missed a trick with both Hameed and Foakes, by asking them to change the batting style or they thought they had to score quickly. If I remember correctly Hameed had a good start to county season until he ended up playing couple of one day games.
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Except for the fact that both NZ and SA can produce more of a test XI than we can - so how does that work?
I would love to find out what kind of test teams both SA and NZ would have if the respective board had the same resources as ECB available to them.
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Big saving grace will be SA’s quota system. With Markram out Malan is likely the obvious pick, but that leaves them short of the quota again. So likely Bavuma (who’s a bit poo) comes in and one of him or vdD opens. If fit Lungi maybe even comes in for Nortje too.
Indeed :( The thing that would help SA balance this 'sensitive selection poser' would be if they had a decent test all rounder who ticked the 'black african box'.
A left field option would be to promote Quinton to open and hand Rudi Seconds the gloves (he fielded well in Markrams place). VD Dussen (sadly) loses his (long deserved shot) to the more experienced Bavuma. I think SA also have captaincy issues with du Plessis so a willingnessto change this may also help. He shows moments of brilliance and innovation in captaincy but then misses the routine.
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Boucher said Pieter Malan will debut. Neither Bavuma or Ngidi are fit for the second Test. Also suggested Bavuma won't walk back into the side.
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You are making my point: Separate lanes. You can call it "encouragement" or "prioritization". Many domestic circuits have 3-4 day cricket matches, so opportunity is there. If England is not doing it, they should start now. Get a new Test captain like Morgan who just plays Test, follow the same blue print as ODI journey to CWC 2019 win.
I repeat, there are plenty of red-ball cricketers out there (who suck at white-ball cricket). England's white-ball "prioritization" didn't make Alistair Cook a great white ball opener. Separate lanes ( for them ) are needed. Treat Test cricket as a "different" skill set, appoint captains who understand that. Give growth time and schedule games for seasons. People who run cricket understand all this.
Oh I’m not debating the need for specialisation but the fact that people think there are a load of red ball players out there in county cricket or even amateur cricket just waiting. It’s been many many years of being fed 4 an over , win lose style batting/bowling.. the skills jut don’t exist outside the odd player who has made it despite the system.
You’re looking at a whole sale change both in formats, culture and of course financial compensation as you’d need to ensure the red ball specialist is rewarded equally to white ball to ensure that players pick their best path not the most rewarded one
If people who ran cricket understood this why hasn’t it happened ? White ball has been prioritised looooong before 2015 p, especially at county level .. hence why this generation is 28-30. The cook/broad/Anderson generation was the last NOT produced by this system.. hence bugger all coming through
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^ In such a scenario, the board has to make do with whoever (white-baller) shows aptitude for red-ball and pivot them to red-ball cricket. These changes take time and creating "lanes" is a worthwhile albeit long undertaking. I look at someone like Shai Hope and I'd build a team around that guy.
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As someone who watches more red ball English cricket than most, I think there is a point being missed here.
Tests are played over five days, no more than 90 per day (though seemingly 81 will do), mostly on old fashioned cricket wickets (ie either solid, go the distance roads, or one which peak on the second morning and deteriorate slowly from there).
Championship cricket is played at the ends of the year. It is mostly played on either green seamers or hyper dry doctored pitches (Essex, Somerset, I'm looking at you). There are as few as a dozen games a year on really top class decks (Scarborough, The Oval, Edgbaston, New Road if the flood waters are kind).
What results is batsmen who, for the most part, reckon that a part of good technique is having a good go before the one with your name on it comes along and bowlers who, largely, favour control so that the one that inevitably does loads is on target over pace or real skills.
The sad thing is, six or seven years ago, we'd got our first class game to the level where it was played between almost test class sides on good pitches. Ho hum...
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Wish Hameed would come back into form as really would like to see him and his style back in this England set up
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Wish Hameed would come back into form as really would like to see him and his style back in this England set up
So do I now he's at Notts!!! We need a decent top order bat
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ESPN are reporting that Jack Leach is unlikely to be fit for the 2nd Test, with Bess likely to play if England decide they need a spinner.
It looks like Matt Parkinson has dropped down the pecking order somewhat. More alarmingly, in Leach's absence England have the choice of two blokes who couldn't hold down a place in their county sides.
It makes you realise how much we miss Moeen, now he's not available :(
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ESPN are reporting that Jack Leach is unlikely to be fit for the 2nd Test, with Bess likely to play if England decide they need a spinner.
It looks like Matt Parkinson has dropped down the pecking order somewhat. More alarmingly, in Leach's absence England have the choice of two blokes who couldn't hold down a place in their county sides.
It makes you realise how much we miss Moeen, now he's not available :(
I doubt Moeen would hold down a place as a bowler in many county sides.
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Wish Hameed would come back into form as really would like to see him and his style back in this England set up
Says something that you can be released by a county but 'missed' by England.
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ESPN are reporting that Jack Leach is unlikely to be fit for the 2nd Test, with Bess likely to play if England decide they need a spinner.
It looks like Matt Parkinson has dropped down the pecking order somewhat. More alarmingly, in Leach's absence England have the choice of two blokes who couldn't hold down a place in their county sides.
It makes you realise how much we miss Moeen, now he's not available :(
Well...newspaper reports pre tour were and I sure they are right, Giles visited MO to sound him out about the tour, not sure how usual or unusual that is, guess is it's not common, you could imagine some arm twisting was done, it to no avail and he has signed up for some 2020 overseas I think for part of this winter.
Mo was dropped after some poor form and by his own admission a loss of confidence. England removed his central contract as he had 'a break'
Whether anyone thinks he is top class or not and should be in before leach is debatable on this fine forum.
Being the gossip monger I am I smell a bit of a rat and the removal of his contract may have something to do with it.
Could be completely wrong but I do like a conspiracy story or two.
Clearly England want him back, that much is obvious, could they of still paid his contract if he was having an extended break?
Difficult one that, Bairstow has a contract for red ball, perhaps they could of used that money to attempt to get Mo back a bit earlier? :o
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Says something that you can be released by a county but 'missed' by England.
Players in the past have been released by a County and moved on to be successful elsewhere, don't see why that can't happen today or in the future, they make judgement calls based on the opinion of coaches and management.
Lancashire have done Hameed a big favour, he needs time and patience and some hard work himself to make it back to test level.
Sometimes you have to back potential, Lancashire chose not to.
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I doubt Moeen would hold down a place as a bowler in many county sides.
No, but he'd walk into most (if ot all) as all rounder, which is the role he's selected in for England.
While his stats (they don't tell a full story, but people like to quote them...) aren't world class on their own with bat or ball, put the two together and you have a handy player. Just the kind England could do with right now.
Lets be honest, Moeen is something of a bits and pieces player statistically, bit are there any better options available?
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Players in the past have been released by a County and moved on to be successful elsewhere, don't see why that can't happen today or in the future, they make judgement calls based on the opinion of coaches and management.
Lancashire have done Hameed a big favour, he needs time and patience and some hard work himself to make it back to test level.
Sometimes you have to back potential, Lancashire chose not to.
Let's see if he can find success at another county before we consider if he has an international future?
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I like Moeen Ali and think he's been a good servant to England. But I hope they look to move on and invest in real bowlers.
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No, but he'd walk into most (if ot all) as all rounder, which is the role he's selected in for England.
While his stats (they don't tell a full story, but people like to quote them...) aren't world class on their own with bat or ball, put the two together and you have a handy player. Just the kind England could do with right now.
Lets be honest, Moeen is something of a bits and pieces player statistically, bit are there any better options available?
Are you sure Camquat? He was dropped for a reason,
Do we really need a player who couldn't buy a run and couldn't tie up an end at the moment?
We shouldn't be pinning our hopes on a shot bolt right now. We've got enough all-rounder, how about we find the best spinner?
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Leach has been the stand out English spinner in FC games in the past few years, no?
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@FattusCattus where do we find this next spinner from though?
Jack Leach is the man at the moment but unable to play due to illness.
Dom Bess - loaned out by Somerset last season
Matt Parkinson - can't hold down a place in the Lancashire Championship team
Mason Crane - seems forever ago he was picked now. Back injuries have limited his game time
Liam Dawson - keeps Mason Crane out of Hampshire's side. Steady if unspectacular
Moeen Ali - currently unavailable
Brad Taylor - Hampshire's back up offie, very limited game time
Amar Virdi - lot of noise about him a couple of years ago, is he still destined for big things?
Simon Harmer - is he English yet?
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Yes, but I wouldn't say he's convinced me that he's a test match wicket-taker
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https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/28396552/england-not-afraid-leave-stuart-broad-james-anderson-chris-silverwood (https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/28396552/england-not-afraid-leave-stuart-broad-james-anderson-chris-silverwood)
I'll bet this is lip service to pacify the media
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@FattusCattus
Simon Harmer - is he English yet?
Can he be eligible? He played 5 tests for SA already? Only took some 20 wickets so clearly wasn't worth keeping anyway ;)
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Can he be eligible? He played 5 tests for SA already? Only took some 20 wickets so clearly wasn't worth keeping anyway ;)
Pretty certain Harmer can't play for England until November 2022 - at which point he'll be around 33-34.
We'd be better off developing Bess as he's a mere baby at 22 and secondly he's actually English
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@FattusCattus where do we find this next spinner from though?
Jack Leach is the man at the moment but unable to play due to illness.
Dom Bess - loaned out by Somerset last season
Matt Parkinson - can't hold down a place in the Lancashire Championship team
Mason Crane - seems forever ago he was picked now. Back injuries have limited his game time
Liam Dawson - keeps Mason Crane out of Hampshire's side. Steady if unspectacular
Moeen Ali - currently unavailable
Brad Taylor - Hampshire's back up offie, very limited game time
Amar Virdi - lot of noise about him a couple of years ago, is he still destined for big things?
Simon Harmer - is he English yet?
Wow!....those are the best spinners in the country and not one would be a shoo in if one had to pick (except Harmer who doesnt qualify). Glad England arent touring the sub continent at the moment...maybe its time to get back Adil Rashid!
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Why can I see us playing Bess and South Africa dropping Maharaj
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Quite keen for Bess if Leach can't play, really rated him in his short first test spell but his bowling obviously wasn't quite there. Couple of years later you'd hope he's come on from there, look forward to seeing how he goes if he does play.
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Quite keen for Bess if Leach can't play, really rated him in his short first test spell but his bowling obviously wasn't quite there. Couple of years later you'd hope he's come on from there, look forward to seeing how he goes if he does play.
Its not the first priority but Bess can bat and that might help his cause for selection
A tail of broad anderson and archer looks like zero runs to me. archer cannot bat not sure what the expectation was..
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Its not the first priority but Bess can bat and that might help his cause for selection
A tail of broad anderson and archer looks like zero runs to me. archer cannot bat not sure what the expectation was..
Wasn’t Archer built up as an all rounder during the Ashes, especially right after he scored a century in one of the games for Sussex 2. What happened?
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Wasn’t Archer built up as an all rounder during the Ashes, especially right after he scored a century in one of the games for Sussex 2. What happened?
Umm, it suddenly wasn’t pathetic 2xi cricket !?!?!
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Archer can definitely give it a bash but that's not much use against high quality bowlers who are getting plenty of movement/spin.
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Archer can definitely give it a bash but that's not much use against high quality bowlers who are getting plenty of movement/spin.
Yes indeed. Interesting to see what England do, clearly the old adage if 4 seamers cant do it 5 wont be able to either, going without a spinner i really dont like at any time.
Leach i dont think England fancy, no point bringing Woakes in so if Bess plays(i think he will) Archer,Anderson or Broad misses out.Curran was our best bowler in the last match...
Broad has bowled well over the last year,Archer is dangerous if used correctly and Anderson is just coming back.
Who would leave out from those 3? Or could it be Curran?
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Yes indeed. Interesting to see what England do, clearly the old adage if 4 seamers cant do it 5 wont be able to either, going without a spinner i really dont like at any time.
Leach i dont think England fancy, no point bringing Woakes in so if Bess plays(i think he will) Archer,Anderson or Broad misses out.Curran was our best bowler in the last match...
Broad has bowled well over the last year,Archer is dangerous if used correctly and Anderson is just coming back.
Who would leave out from those 3? Or could it be Curran?
Curran to be left out. Isn’t the messiah with the bat and is a lesser bowler than the rest. Offers effort which tbf is more than most but it should never be enough to get you a test spot
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Parkinson would be better bowler but eng will go with Bess to help with the batting as usual
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Curran to be left out. Isn’t the messiah with the bat and is a lesser bowler than the rest. Offers effort which tbf is more than most but it should never be enough to get you a test spots
You clearly didn't watch the last game when Sam was our best bowler.
Archer has an injured elbow so likely to be out.
Parkinson would be better bowler but eng will go with Bess to help with the batting as usual
Parkinson looks a batsman's dream of a bowler. Absolutely no point in him playing.
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You clearly didn't watch the last game when Sam was our best bowler.
Archer has an injured elbow so likely to be out.
Parkinson looks a batsman's dream of a bowler. Absolutely no point in him playing.
It’s still worth investing in pace or people who can offer control/consistent movement .
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It’s still worth investing in pace or people who can offer control/consistent movement .
Or giving the young lad a chance to develop those whilst he's never let England down and has what all good bowlers need... The nack of taking wickets
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Parkinson would be better bowler but eng will go with Bess to help with the batting as usual
Agree entirely. Parkinson is a wicket taking bowler but is a genuine tail ender. Bess' batting seems to have come on more than his bowling. Seems to be more of a replacement from Ali than a genuine front line spinner
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Have any of you ever seen Parkinson bowl with a red ball? He was woeful in the warm up games (which is likely a contributing factor to him falling down the pecking order).
He's a wicket taking white ball bowler. In the Championship he struggles to get into the Lancashire side consistently. He tosses the ball up and relies on turn for his wickets. He may get away with it in the County Championship, but the South African top order will be praying he does get a game!
It's also worth noting that while Parkinson has been mixing and carrying drinks, Dom Bess has been at a spin bowling camp with Rangana Herath in Mumbai, with the general consensus being he's a much improved bowler compared to when be last played test cricket.
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Bess does also have the advantage of being a pretty handy fielder.
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Bess will play and it will be the first time a Keeley bat has been used by an England player in the test arena...
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Have any of you ever seen Parkinson bowl with a red ball? He was woeful in the warm up games (which is likely a contributing factor to him falling down the pecking order).
He's a wicket taking white ball bowler. In the Championship he struggles to get into the Lancashire side consistently. He tosses the ball up and relies on turn for his wickets. He may get away with it in the County Championship, but the South African top order will be praying he does get a game!
It's also worth noting that while Parkinson has been mixing and carrying drinks, Dom Bess has been at a spin bowling camp with Rangana Herath in Mumbai, with the general consensus being he's a much improved bowler compared to when be last played test cricket.
As a Lancs supporter I have seen him bowl in the CC and call me old fashioned but there is something about a spinner bowler who relies on turn for his wickets that I tend to look at in selection decisions. It is a sign of the weakness in England's tail though that they are so desperate to get Ali back. Bess is the obvious replacement as long as Ali doesn't make himself available
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I think people often lose sight of the fact that finger-spin and wrist-spin are different disciplines. The wrist-spinner will usually be the 'riskier' selection. I applaud England for taking Parkinson on tour, but understand why Bess might get the nod in current circumstances.
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I think people often lose sight of the fact that finger-spin and wrist-spin are different disciplines. The wrist-spinner will usually be the 'riskier' selection. I applaud England for taking Parkinson on tour, but understand why Bess might get the nod in current circumstances.
I think whilst its a bowling position that is likely to change we, or England, want someone who can hold a bat.
That was Mo when in form and to be fair got us out of the brown stuff a few times, could be Woakes if we needed a seamer. Bess is a capable batsmen and maybe why he has gone ahead of Leach(who is handy defending with the bat)
Im afraid the lack of first innings runs over the last 3 years means we need the middle and lower order to get a score(again)
Could be wrong thats how i think they are looking at it.
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Or giving the young lad a chance to develop those whilst he's never let England down and has what all good bowlers need... The nack of taking wickets
Umm, shouldn’t this be developed well before playing for England ?!?! Otherwise what’s the point of county cricket
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He cant be playing county cricket during the winter though can he, so on tour with the squad and the environment is the next logical and in my opinion best move. Only gonna improve with day in day out practice against our countries supposed finest
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i think England made a mistake taking Ali’s central contract. They could have given him a low contract but dropping him completely with player like Baristow still maintaining one just smells of favoritisms. Just my opinion.
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i think England made a mistake taking Ali’s central contract. They could have given him a low contract but dropping him completely with player like Baristow still maintaining one just smells of favoritisms. Just my opinion.
Moeen has a white ball contract, it's not like they've cut him off totally. Also why would the ECB give him an all format contract if he's not interested at present in test cricket?
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Leach has been unwell. Surely Bess is only 'ahead' of him for this reason?
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Moeen has a white ball contract, it's not like they've cut him off totally. Also why would the ECB give him an all format contract if he's not interested at present in test cricket?
Not having a central test contract is why he is taking a break from tests. Hes trying to make up the lost income playing T20s.
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Umm, shouldn’t this be developed well before playing for England ?!?! Otherwise what’s the point of county cricket
Yes but it isn't being, we all know that!! Also to stay at the top you need to continually develop if you get to a level and never improve people find you out and suddenly your not as good, need to continually develop in top level sport
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Not having a central test contract is why he is taking a break from tests. Hes trying to make up the lost income playing T20s.
White ball contract is worth £275,000 that's more than most doctors. Moeen is also getting £200,000 from his IPL deal. Earning almost £500,000 is hardly chump change
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I wonder how much of these figures the players actually receive, I'm sure the league will take a percentage, as will any managers.
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And Jofra maybe out for the 2nd test. No bad thing really as I think he needs a rest, and then a rocket up the backside. Nortje was far more express.
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Not having a central test contract is why he is taking a break from tests. Hes trying to make up the lost income playing T20s.
He's not though, he's not playing in the BBL or BPL and would've been available for the full IPL anyway. The only difference he's made by not playing tests is being available for the full PSL (if he opts out of the SL tour) rather than half of it.
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Burns now a doubt for the game due to a football injury. Sibley also not 100%....
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Bairstow doing what it takes to get a game.
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What’s the BS obsession with football? You don’t see Lionel Messi playing cricket before he rocks up for Barcelona. Stupidity at its finest
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or a quick, easy and dynamic way to warm up, this is only the second injury we've suffered in about 10 years playing football as a warm up,
If i recall correctly the other was Bairstow in Sri Lanka which gave Foakes his Debut
it only looks stupid now there has been an injury lets not forget all of the other days where nothing has happened
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On the one hand let them play it if they want to, but just because there's mostly no injuries doesn't make it look any less stupid when someone gets hurt.
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Burns now a doubt for the game due to a football injury. Sibley also not 100%....
If thats the case i would assume Crawley will open but if both are out god knows who with, Denny??
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Only the second injury? Off the top of my head there's been:
Joe Denly
Ian Bell
Matt Prior
James Anderson
Jonny Bairstow
Nearly Ollie Pope yesterday
Rory Burns
Surely that's enough incidents you can make an informed decision to scrap it?
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Interesting statement from Faf du Plessis regarding quotas. He said selection is now based on performances and not colour. Hence why Bavuma, their VC has been dropped.
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Only the second injury? Off the top of my head there's been:
Joe Denly
Ian Bell
Matt Prior
James Anderson
Jonny Bairstow
Nearly Ollie Pope yesterday
Rory Burns
Surely that's enough incidents you can make an informed decision to scrap it?
I could only think of the two but of that's the case then it's looking more and more daft!
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By far the most dangerous activity in terms of injuries sustained appears to be cricket but I hope there won't be any plans to phase that out. Injuries are part and parcel of playing professional sport. Sadly this is shaping up to be one of those ill-fated tours where selection of governed by availability to put out a fit and healthy 11
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far as im aware Bairstow when coming back from injury caused by a football warm up then stopped as its not compulsory to play. I think this was when Butler stepped in.
if Bairstow does opt out of the footie has he had to last laugh here?
:)
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I've seen people get injured doing short sprints in a warm-up, far worse ideas than a no tackles game of football.
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Wasn't football invented to keep cricketers fit?
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/video/clip?id=28409992 (http://www.espncricinfo.com/video/clip?id=28409992) - here is the link
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Cant recall footballers playing cricket to warm up
Blows my mind they take it so seriously, with the obvious threat of injury. As a professional organisation and all that, I find it pretty irresponsible. Even more so when you consider the lack of numbers already due to this bloody sickness bug or whatever it is
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Rory is out of the TOUR
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Rory is out of the TOUR
Gordon bennett is going from bad to worse! Can someone please get Mark Wood’s availability?
Not sick....good....but injured since before the tour. oh dear.
:)
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At this rate anyone with a British passport and currently in SA might get a game. Perhaps the chubby bloke from the barmy army who sings the songs could open.
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From looking at the footage it seems like they were going pretty full on pace-wise so not surprised something like this his happened.
Kicking a football around and having a run about is a great way to get loose, but that looked overly competitive for a warm up.
It's a real shame as Rory's been playing well and seems to be fitting in to the opening slot nicely.
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Do we know who it was put the tackle in that ruined Rory's tour?
Edit - I've just seen it was Root. Strip him of the captaincy and ban football FFS
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No sympathy what so ever from me, this England side is an absolute joke at the moment. They need some who can get them all by the scruff of the neck, put them into line, provide direction and have the conviction to what's right for the team.
Root is no leader and his batting has suffered, if the series is lost then he should go but sadly the excuse of illness will be rolled out and he will be left as captain.
Silverwoods impact appears to be nonexistent and just and ECB yes man who's there to bow to Roots wishes...5 seamers..wtf sort of plan is that?
Sorry for the rant but I just don't love this team, even after their historic 2019 moments.
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No sympathy what so ever from me, this England side is an absolute joke at the moment. They need some who can get them all by the scruff of the neck, put them into line, provide direction and have the conviction to what's right for the team.
Root is no leader and his batting has suffered, if the series is lost then he should go but sadly the excuse of illness will be rolled out and he will be left as captain.
Silverwoods impact appears to be nonexistent and just and ECB yes man who's there to bow to Roots wishes...5 seamers..wtf sort of plan is that?
Sorry for the rant but I just don't love this team, even after their historic 2019 moments.
Agree with some of your points, a lot of us are frustrated.
We will know more i fear tommorow because, as bad as its been if they dont select Crawley tommorow and bring back Bairstow we will know for sure that no one has any balls on the tour.
I actually dont care as long as crawley,sibley and pope play-we have to find out about them and i would write off the result ofcthis tour to find out
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Team for tomorrow...
Crawley
Sibley
Denly
ROOOOOOT
Stokes
Pope
Buttler
Curran
Bess
Broad
Anderson.
Honestly if it was me at this point I would tell Broad, Anderson and Bairstow to get on the plane home with Burns
There needs to be a radical shake up after this shambles.
Foakes not being there is ridiculous.
This constant pandering to the senior players is tiresome.
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Team for tomorrow...
Crawley
Sibley
Denly
ROOOOOOT
Stokes
Pope
Buttler
Curran
Bess
Broad
Anderson.
Honestly if it was me at this point I would tell Broad, Anderson and Bairstow to get on the plane home with Burns
There needs to be a radical shake up after this shambles.
Foakes not being there is ridiculous.
This constant pandering to the senior players is tiresome.
Well said that man
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The way this whole tour has been managed is an absolute mess
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Do we know who it was put the tackle in that ruined Rory's tour?
Edit - I've just seen it was Root. Strip him of the captaincy and ban football FFS
Pretty decent turn by Burns and Root did well to track him and take him away from goal. I imagine England to be talking more set piece zonal systems, less how to take a test 5 days.
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Some ridiculous comments in here.
The selectors are deciding the team. I did a coaching session with one of the out going Englwnd coaches at edgbaston last month and he said they didnt make the decision to drop Foakes. So the selectors are to blame for the current squad and team not Silverwood.
I would agree Root isn’t Mike Brearley but its not like we have more than a couple of players likely to be playing come the first test if our next summer. Ive read it should be Stokes but given how well it went for Botham and Flintoff ..... potentially a bigger risk than Roots loss of form.
The amount of stick these boys are getting when it appears we are missing two fundamental issues, in the main, there isnt anyone better, weve proved that with our umptinth opener and number 3, that isnt their fault. We are also not giving any credit to the South Africans who from what Ive seen, bowled better than we did.
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Agree with some of your points, a lot of us are frustrated.
We will know more i fear tommorow because, as bad as its been if they dont select Crawley tommorow and bring back Bairstow we will know for sure that no one has any balls on the tour.
I actually dont care as long as crawley,sibley and pope play-we have to find out about them and i would write off the result ofcthis tour to find out
We should be giving those players not just this tour but NZ, SA and next summer too! It’s the only way and going back to players like Bairstow is just crap. The guy only had one good period and he’s changed his game and mentality and it’s destroyed him
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On the selectors point, that is interesting. Ed Smith has made Buttler totally undroppable. It is a absurd situation. As is playing 24 players in a 12 month period.
Assuming Bess tomorrow is playing can we name them all?
Sibley
Burns
Crawley
Root
Denly
Stokes
Bairstow
Pope
Foakes
Moeen
Bess
Broad
Anderson
Woakes
Archer
Wood
Stone
Leach
Curran
Vince
Roy
Jennings
Rashid
I am still a few short
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Agree that Foakes should be in, comfortably the best keeper and his batting isn't any worse than Bairstow and Buttler have shown.
Would be good to see the likes of Northeast given a go, Burns has shown that consistent form at FC level can be translated to Test cricket, it just requires time and support.
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Team for tomorrow...
Crawley
Sibley
Denly
ROOOOOOT
Stokes
Pope
Buttler
Curran
Bess
Broad
Anderson.
Honestly if it was me at this point I would tell Broad, Anderson and Bairstow to get on the plane home with Burns
There needs to be a radical shake up after this shambles.
Foakes not being there is ridiculous.
This constant pandering to the senior players is tiresome.
I’d like to see Sibley and Crawley open tomorrow. Trouble is, as soon as we’re 2-2 Sky will be dissecting their techniques and concluding that neither are yet ready for test cricket.
The biggest problem is the selectors. Ed Smith is such a smug, know-it-all, I’m far intellectually superior than thou numpty that he actually believes he can invent the wheel. He doesn’t seem to realise that batters play their best when they bat in positions in which they are accustomed to batting in. As for James Taylor, I can’t see his role as anything other than telling Ed Smith what a wonderful genius of a man he is. No wonder Andrew Symonds pinned him up against a wall by the neck in his Kent days, and Bob Key wouldn’t piss on him if he was on fire.
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Some ridiculous comments in here.
The selectors are deciding the team. I did a coaching session with one of the out going Englwnd coaches at edgbaston last month and he said they didnt make the decision to drop Foakes. So the selectors are to blame for the current squad and team not Silverwood.
I would agree Root isn’t Mike Brearley but its not like we have more than a couple of players likely to be playing come the first test if our next summer. Ive read it should be Stokes but given how well it went for Botham and Flintoff ..... potentially a bigger risk than Roots loss of form.
The amount of stick these boys are getting when it appears we are missing two fundamental issues, in the main, there isnt anyone better, weve proved that with our umptinth opener and number 3, that isnt their fault. We are also not giving any credit to the South Africans who from what Ive seen, bowled better than we did.
Hmmm I’ve some questions about this.
The decision not to pick Foakes being nothing to do with Silverwood? I’m really not convinced the head coach can wash his hands of any team selection issue and blame it on the selectors. If that is the case it doesn’t say a lot about the moral fortitude and influence of the head coach and would call in to question exactly what his role is. I’m not saying that not picking Foakes isn’t legitimate but I am saying it’s a very screwed up system if the head coach isn’t the main man of influence in team selection.
Agreed that you shouldn’t strip someone of the captaincy unless there is a viable option but I also think the captaincy should be changed if you’re certain you will only get rank mediocrity from the incumbent.
I totally agree that some of the criticism the team gets is rash and un-called for but sport is by it’s very nature incredibly emotive. I for one was particularly irritated to see one of our better players injured playing football - again. Yes ‘it can happen anyway’ but it seems to have happened enough times that it seems careless from the coaching staff. To play devil’s advocate against myself though - Eddie Jones is a big advocate of injury induced training and I very much trust his judgement so what do I know!
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On the selectors point, that is interesting. Ed Smith has made Buttler totally undroppable. It is a absurd situation. As is playing 24 players in a 12 month period.
Assuming Bess tomorrow is playing can we name them all?
Sibley
Burns
Crawley
Root
Denly
Stokes
Bairstow
Pope
Foakes
Moeen
Bess
Broad
Anderson
Woakes
Archer
Wood
I am still a few short
Jennings
Leach
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Jennings
Leach
Roy
Rashid
Ollie Stone
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Rashid?
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On the selectors point, that is interesting. Ed Smith has made Buttler totally undroppable. It is a absurd situation. As is playing 24 players in a 12 month period.
Assuming Bess tomorrow is playing can we name them all?
Sibley
Burns
Crawley
Root
Denly
Stokes
Bairstow
Pope
Foakes
Moeen
Bess
Broad
Anderson
Woakes
Archer
Wood
I am still a few short
Leach, Overton, Curran, Jennings, Rashid, Buttler
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This is the list I believe...
Sibley
Burns
Crawley
Root
Denly
Stokes
Bairstow
Buttler
Pope
Foakes
Moeen
Bess
Broad
Anderson
Woakes
Archer
Wood
Stone
Leach
Curran
Vince
Roy
Jennings
Rashid
I don't believe Overton has played in the last 12 months.
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Overton played in the Ashes.
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Overton played in the Ashes.
Nowhere near good enough for international cricket.
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Joe Root looks like a shadow of himself, he looks a bit of a ghost.
This job seems to really suck the life out of people.
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Won the toss having a bat
3 changes 2 forced
Crawley for Burns
Pope for bairstow
Bess for Archer
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That was inevitable
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That was inevitable
maybe but against the new ball it can happen, I think so far its pretty good. Denly and Sibley steading things as the ball get a bit older
crawley,Sibley,Pope all been identified as potential test players, I think expectations need to be lowered now from us fans and let them have an extended run.
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On what planet has Zak Crawley been identified as Test batsman? He barely averages 30 in red ball cricket
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Sibley's just seeming to do the same thing; gets himself in then out
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On what planet has Zak Crawley been identified as Test batsman? He barely averages 30 in red ball cricket
planet earth and by the England selectors. its not a computer game, if your only qualification is a FC average Trescothick would never of got picked to play in any format for us.
I have no idea whether Crawley will make a good test player, but he's picked so let's see.
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I think so far its pretty good. Denly and Sibley steading things as the ball get a bit older
Why did you have to....!?
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On what planet has Zak Crawley been identified as Test batsman? He barely averages 30 in red ball cricket
On the fact he is only 21 and scored almost a 1000 FC runs last season in Div 1 cricket and he is a proper red ball opening bat and we are not blessed with a lot of top of the order players.
As an opener you get more balls with your name on them than anywhere else in the order, hopefully he gets the rest of this series and then maybe we will have a better idea after 4 tests as opposed to 2 innings which he has had so far
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Why is it every time we are in a good ish position starting to get in top do we lose a wicket!
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On the fact he is only 21 and scored almost a 1000 FC runs last season in Div 1 cricket and he is a proper red ball opening bat and we are not blessed with a lot of top of the order players.
As an opener you get more balls with your name on them than anywhere else in the order, hopefully he gets the rest of this series and then maybe we will have a better idea after 4 tests as opposed to 2 innings which he has had so far
800 runs at 34 irrelevant of his age, those are modest figures
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800 runs at 34 irrelevant of his age, those are modest figures
Who would you have in instead?
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Why did you have to....!?
Yes sorry absolute village from me, i should know better :)
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Who would you have in instead?
Always had a soft spot for Bell-Drummond - his 2019 stats where similar to Crawley’s
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Always had a soft spot for Bell-Drummond - his 2019 stats where similar to Crawley’s
He did do well last season, but he batted mainly at 4 last season, due to a prior of a lack of form at the top and the emergence of Crawley.
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Zak Crawley is not the answer.
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English cricket fandom is hitting new lows when a new opener gets written off after one innings. Bring back Ian Bell!
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KP is in south africa bring him back to open!
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English cricket fandom is hitting new lows when a new opener gets written off after one innings. Bring back Ian Bell!
No, I said Crawley was not the answer before he was picked. I was merely repeating. i hoped someone might see the funny side.
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Whatever happened to looking at the ball? Poor from Root
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genuine fast bowling unsettles Root, we've seen it too many times. Windies,South Africa, Australia.
this is the last tour I want to see Root as skipper, it has to be taken off him. He's still our best...but he cannot do both jobs. there's no massive come down, it happens in sport, not all players elevated to skippering see their own contributions go higher.
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Football finally banned:
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/28414104/england-ban-football-warm-ups-rory-burns-injury (https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/28414104/england-ban-football-warm-ups-rory-burns-injury)
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In terms of top order options, would it not have made more sense to take someone more experienced like Northeast as the backup 3 and have Denly as the backup opener? He might as well have opened today and I'm not sure it does Crawley much good to be playing against a top quality SA attack just now given his inexperience.
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Not sure what else Jack Leach needs to do to get a mention for England's top order, most proven option we've got
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We're not getting 400
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We're not getting 400
Could’ve told you that before the game started!!
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Oh look - a selection of brave 30's!!
Someone in the lower order might have a field day though? Stokes, Buttler, Currant?
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Is Petorius carrying some kind of injury on his right hand? He seems to have black bandage on.
With Denly’s wicket let the collapse begin 🤬
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Jos butler dos owe us a few runs. played pretty well over 12-18 months, but a 50 please would be good. please please.
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Jos butler dos owe us a few runs. played pretty well over 12-18 months, but a 50 please would be good. please please.
Sure, but will he get the opportunity or is he going to be out there with 9 to 11 again.
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Sure, but will he get the opportunity or is he going to be out there with 9 to 11 again.
yes good point....with Bess in the team(I think this is a reason we picked him) our tail is better than archer/broad/Anderson.
so we got a little bit more on paper down the order
I actually think from what I have seen of Bess he is a better batsman than bowler...but he has been working on his bowling..
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Always had a soft pot for Bell-Drummond - his 2019 stats where similar to Crawley’s
He has had 4/5 seasons as a top order bat and never passed 1000 CC runs, Crawley is a far better bat and has been talked up by Athers, Key and a few other top order batters for some time. He is in my opinion anyway the best young English opener around by a mile at the moment and English condition with how early our season starts got pretty good stats for his age I think. Remember he only has 34 first class matches behind him. As I say give him the series and then have a better opinion than the two innings he has had so far.
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Crawley is a promising batsman. And quite possibly the best available option right now. Fact is, he is nowhere near ready for Test cricket really. The system is broken.
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Jesus Christ that was soft, awful
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just getting on top and looking ok, we gift a wicket away.... how many times does this happen!!!
Any of sibley, Denly, Root or Stokes dont get out and we can probably add 70-100 to the score with 1 maybe 2 wickets less and it suddenly looks a lot better!
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Ollie Bell looking good. Will score 100.
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Is the BBC live text being unfair, or is Jos Buttler batting brainlessly?
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butler has dispensed with any pleasantries and gone straight to Defcon 1
well......I suppose he's read again what's written on top of his handle. :)
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Suffering through talksport whilst at work, they all like this version of buttler
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Is the BBC live text being unfair, or is Jos Buttler batting brainlessly?
In my experience the people who update BBC Sports live text services know precisely sod all about the sport they are supposed to be commentating on. They’re far more interested in trying to be funny and/or entertaining, rather than actually commenting on what’s going on.
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to be honest he is probably the one to do it if someone has to.
were we heading for 250 all out anyway? I think we probably were even thou Pope is still in.
its a gamble but worth taking maybe
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Oh dear. Buttler gone.
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This team is absolutely pathetic
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again just about on top and a wicket falls its every single game every single wicket both innings
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Buttler with a crap shot yet Hussain proclaims ‘great delivery’. Why’s he dancing around the crease. Pretorius is last resort bowler in that side.
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Talksport bigging Buttler up all innings, he gets out and he shouldn't be playing and bairstow should... honestly! I miss TMS
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Curran hype...burst
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The same old crap
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Is Bess the first player to use a Keeley branded bat in a test match?
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Is Bess the first player to use a Keeley branded bat in a test match?
And what a lovely shot it was of that bat after he nicked off first ball
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Bits and pieces cricketers hyped up as ‘all rounders’. Then we wonder why we aren’t getting anywhere
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Good to see Dom Bess strengthen England's fragile tail...
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Bits and pieces cricketers hyped up as ‘all rounders’. Then we wonder why we aren’t getting anywhere
100% this
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Broad's dismissal sums out just how braindead this batting performance has been
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Awesome from Broad.
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The thought that some people have of Curran having the ability to become a test batsman is laughable. He might score a few runs here and there, but throwing the bat is not a technique that will ensure consistent runs. When he needs to dig in he’s found wanting. His technique isn’t tight enough, and his ego won’t allow himself to block for any prolonged period of time. He bats in a way not dissimilar to how Graeme Swann batted.
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234/9 on a belter. Well done England.
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At least Broad didn’t back away this time
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Just seen the Broad dismissal, oh dear!
If he was a race horse he'd have been sent to the glue factory long ago...
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Wonderful partnership from Pope and Anderson. Already the 4th highest of the innings.
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One positive from this innings has been Pope. Get him some half decent players to bat with and he will be something special.
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Could this be the Burnley Lara's chance at his maiden 100, too many times he's been left stranded ..
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While all the chaos has unfolded around him, Ollie Pope has stood tall. He's looking to be the real deal.
A bloke averaging near 58 in first class cricket is a decent batsman, who's have thought it?
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Very nice 50 from Sir Ollie Pope.
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One positive from this innings has been Pope. Get him some half decent players to bat with and he will be something special.
So impressed with Pope - at a time when his spot is under pressure and he's new to the team, to be controlling the game and be totally selfless shows a real strength of character
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Well done Ollie Pope!
What are people's thoughts on Sam Northeast - 30 now but read somewhere he has averaged over 50 in the county champ for the last three years. As we have seen it doesn't guarantee test performance but do we think he deserves a try?
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Well done Ollie Pope!
What are people's thoughts on Sam Northeast - 30 now but read somewhere he has averaged over 50 in the county champ for the last three years. As we have seen it doesn't guarantee test performance but do we think he deserves a try?
yes but it wont happen
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well batted Pope
at least a bit of driftwood to cling onto from the sinking ship. sibley and denly hung in there and a bit from Stokes.
we are clinging on to something :)
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Very nice 50 from Sir Ollie Pope.
Swapping Diamonds for Sirens?? :D
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This team doesn't deserve a player like Pope. A disgraceful day yet again. All talk, no action
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Well done Ollie Pope!
What are people's thoughts on Sam Northeast - 30 now but read somewhere he has averaged over 50 in the county champ for the last three years. As we have seen it doesn't guarantee test performance but do we think he deserves a try?
Northeast left Kent for Hampshire to push his case for an England call up. He was immediately put into the Lions squad, and performed solidly. His weight of runs in first class cricket has been consistent proving he's a he's a reliable player. He also has a very good cricket brain, which has been demonstrated when taking on the Hampshire captaincy in James Vince's absence.
In short he's a great county player who deserves a chance. It looks like his time has gone now though as England are going with young guns who show promise ahead of experienced players with a few seasons of county cricket under their belt.
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It looks like his time has gone now though as England are going with young guns who show promise ahead of experienced players with a few seasons of county cricket under their belt.
Not exactly effective so far as a strategy though! Here is hoping we are willing to change a bit and accept a mix of experience and youth
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It’s a travesty that Northeast hasn’t been given a chance. Perhaps the face doesn’t fit. Perhaps Ed Smith doesn’t know what he’s doing.
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Big day for bess tomorrow really need him to bowl well keep the runs tight and allow the 4 (im including stokes as hopefully having a decent spinner will help him) rotate at the the end like maharaj did.
looks like a wicket made for broad too hopefully he can bowl one of those spells!
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Someone not in team is better than someone in team claims CBFer. Blah!
We need to re-establish s proper county championship and stop playing so much idiot cricket. In fact, idiot cricket shouldn't even be allowed to use the name cricket.
It's going to get worse, trust me.
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More specialisation is where it will go I reckon. Test, ODI and T20 squads will diverge even further.
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More specialisation is where it will go I reckon. Test, ODI and T20 squads will diverge even further.
I’d be fine with that, as long as they don’t keep trying to crowbar “names” from the shorter format in to tests (or vice versa). Enough experimentation... it simply doesn’t work.
The CC needs a massive overhaul. Squares around the country need to be dug up and started again from scratch. There’s something definitely wrong when a 56 year old Darren Stevens keeps taking wickets in Division 1.
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Nothing to do with the squares.
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Specialisation is ok but cannot be absolute
Stokes is good enough to do both he's proven that! He's batting in a style that doesn't suit and is still out best test match bat at the moment
Rootnis good enough needs to lose the captaincy he was before the captain job he can be again
The test only players should be
Burns Sibley Crawley Denly pope foakes broad Anderson leach
White ball only
Bairstow buttler
I've left archer out as I honestly think he can do both but needs a better skipper and a dedicated role like Johnson at the end of his career when he destroyed us
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Specialisation is ok but cannot be absolute
Stokes is good enough to do both he's proven that! He's batting in a style that doesn't suit and is still out best test match bat at the moment
Rootnis good enough needs to lose the captaincy he was before the captain job he can be again
The test only players should be
Burns Sibley Crawley Denly pope foakes broad Anderson leach
White ball only
Bairstow buttler
I've left archer out as I honestly think he can do both but needs a better skipper and a dedicated role like Johnson at the end of his career when he destroyed us
Proven what?? What does he average as a supposed world class test batsmen ?..
Your general point though is correct.. players can and should be allowed to play multi format. IF... IF ... they are actually good enough..
Players like Curran are bits and pieces white ball players and stokes whilst having shown that he is capable is also showing that he can’t be consistent .. hence the 36 avg.. so there is still a lot of over hype about this side
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Erm, I once saw Joe Denly score a hundred and take a hat-trick in a T20 match!
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Erm, I once saw Joe Denly score a hundred and take a hat-trick in a T20 match!
Must be world class at 2020 then..
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Must be world class at 2020 then..
If the quick buck is his thing, he should be allowed to play it, no? He seems to be pretty good at getting a franchise gig, and is the wrong side of thirty.
That night he looked 'world-class' to me in the same way that anyone else looks world class in this nonsense. I'd probably be better placed to judge if I wasn't actually at the game and simply endlessly repeated Sky Sports soundbites though.
Personally, I'd rather T20 didn't exist. Or called itself something other than cricket.
Cricket should not exist for the sole purpose of creating an England team (or making money). Ironically, when it realises this, it may actually find itself with a better England team.
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If the quick buck is his thing, he should be allowed to play it, no? He seems to be pretty good at getting a franchise gig, and is the wring side of thirty.
That night he looked 'world-class' to me in the same way that anyone else looks world class in this nonsense. I'd probably be better placed to judge if I wasn't actually at the game and simply endlessly repeated Sky Sports soundbites though.
Personally, I'd rather T20 didn't exist. Or called itself something other than cricket.
Cricket should not exist for the sole purpose of creating an England team (or making money). Ironically, when it realises this, it may actually find itself with a better England team.
Oh there is nothing wrong with it.. jut don’t let it destroy your mentality or technique. If you can genuinely change then great... I’m not seeing many capable of that though.
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But it is destroying the technique of English cricketers en masse? Either that or the desire?
And: whilst I think Denly is currently just about worth his place in the Test side, wouldn't you agree that he's probably closer to being world-class in the T20 *cough* format?
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Proven what?? What does he average as a supposed world class test batsmen ?..
Averages aren't everything and he's not a batsmen he's the only gebuine world class all-rounder on either side
Can single handedly win games of cricket has done will do
I'm all formats
Stokes improves us as a side he's a leader and adds as a bat bowler and fielder
Gebuine question - howbdo his avergae and catch numbers stack up to other all rounders??
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Averages aren't everything and he's not a batsmen he's the only gebuine world class all-rounder on either side
Can single handedly win games of cricket has done will do
I'm all formats
Stokes improves us as a side he's a leader and adds as a bat bowler and fielder
Gebuine question - howbdo his avergae and catch numbers stack up to other all rounders??
His knee is knackered. He won’t be bowling for much longer.. sigh, we don’t need the odd great knock.. we need a test match batsmen who will consistently score 40+ runs
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Winds me up so much, why did they only bowl 89 overs? 3 more minutes would have got the full 90 in, it's a joke
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Genuine seam bowling all rounders have a very short shelf life in the modern era of cricket. Flintoff was done by 31. Stokes dodgy knee only 28. Corey Anderson from New Zealand was crocked by 26. Hardik Pandya just had spine surgery.
There’s too much cricket being played, especially the T20 franchise scene. Players don’t get enough time to recover.
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Is there an obviously better batsman at 5 than Stokes? Also obviously the possibility that if he played solely as a batsman he'd have more time to focus on his batting.
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This is true, the top players have zero rest, they're playing all year round now more or less. has to be draining.
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His knee is knackered. He won’t be bowling for much longer.. sigh, we don’t need the odd great knock.. we need a test match batsmen who will consistently score 40+ runs
He's averaged over 50 in the last 12 months (I believe) which shows he's improving as a test batsman.
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I don’t really care If England win or lose as long as they are trying to play test cricket. This team not only loses but it fails to play actual test cricket for more than the odd player randomly. Yet, reading this blog, media and the ECB... half our players are greats, world clsss or some other crap. The fact that we keep over rating players and no one will hear a bad word said is telling and why this team will never improve
Why improve if you’re lauded and called a great and only need to avg 30’s (burns (early I know), Bairstow, buttler, Stokes, denly (early I know))... then we have the messiah... Curran.. thr Guy bowls dolly drops, not acccurate and it just a hitter how came off once or twice.. her, he’s talked about as a potential top test batsmen, great all rounder and strike bowlers.. I mean.. jesus
The archer.. what an ashes he had.. wants he done since ..... exactly.. either he got lucky?? Or he’s injured now ?? And we keep being told he can bat..
Woakes.. what’s he done wrong not to be ahead of Curran ... Foakes.. .. Crawley last game ..
This set up stinks and keeps on stinking but as we see on here, no one will hear a bad word about some of these players and until that changes.. nothing will change.
The system from amateur to pro is broken for red ball so there won’t be any fixes until that’s fixed .
Sad but it’s said all the time as (No Swearing Please) down again and again but it keeps happening. It’s time for thr blinkers to come off for a lot of people
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Is there an obviously better batsman at 5 than Stokes? Also obviously the possibility that if he played solely as a batsman he'd have more time to focus on his batting.
The point isn’t that he’s the second best batter we have and actually suits 5.. thr point is he’s lauded as some great player and no one will hear a bad word said and yet.. he only avg 35.. he has had a good 13 months though and long may that continue with the bat. I actually hope he is injured bowling wise and that he focuses purely on batting as that’s what we need. We don’t need his bowling at all
The question is can he become an actual world class test batter whilst playing 2020 and ODI?? The difference it makes to players mentality and technique is stark. root is another who is massively suffering now as he keeps trying to play a run a ball rather than take his time.. shocking horror, he’s getting out
Maybe the ECB need to pay them enough to specialise ........ there are more than enough white ballers after all
For a contrast in approach... look at the knocks last night of Laubashange and Smith.. SR’s Etc Etc the kiwis have smith in trouble currently but he still feels off 60 ish off 180.. add in laubashange 120 off 240 ish and boom.. 240 ish for 3 in a day.. that is what this englsnd side need to do and that is what this side simply doesn’t seem capable or willing to do (excluding the odd knock )
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Stokes is lauded for his all round contribution. He's a top fielder, has been very consistent with the bat over the last year across all formats and produced some great spells of bowling.
I don't disagree that his batting is needed far more than his bowling though. Ideally he would be in the side to bat with the option to send down a few overs of decent pace when/if needed.
I still think England's Test side need to be less afraid of specialist players. Foakes should be keeping, he's clearly a much more talented keeper than the previous incumbents.
I like Sam Curran but would also like to see him sent back to county cricket for a full season to develop his skills as a bowler and batsman. Anderson and Broad aren't getting any younger so would be good to see England looking to develop a modern pace attack, give chances to Stone, JOverton, etc.
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Swapping Diamonds for Sirens?? :D
No, I would never cheat on my Diamonds.
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Stokes is lauded for his all round contribution. He's a top fielder, has been very consistent with the bat over the last year across all formats and produced some great spells of bowling.
I don't disagree that his batting is needed far more than his bowling though. Ideally he would be in the side to bat with the option to send down a few overs of decent pace when/if needed.
I still think England's Test side need to be less afraid of specialist players. Foakes should be keeping, he's clearly a much more talented keeper than the previous incumbents.
I like Sam Curran but would also like to see him sent back to county cricket for a full season to develop his skills as a bowler and batsman. Anderson and Broad aren't getting any younger so would be good to see England looking to develop a modern pace attack, give chances to Stone, JOverton, etc.
This.
It's an absolute disgrace, joke and embarrassment that Ben foakes was dropped while averaging 41 and being the best keeper in the world for a bloke that has averaged 20 over the last 18 months.
Stokes has the talent and technique, and he's the only batman I'd want at the crease in a crisis at the moment. Yes he isn't consistent enough. But, the last 12 months has shown he can be.
Bowling wise, stone is one for the future, Curran too, and the Overton brothers so they need to either be in the side or in the lions now.
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This.
It's an absolute disgrace, joke and embarrassment that Ben foakes was dropped while averaging 41 and being the best keeper in the world for a bloke that has averaged 20 over the last 18 months.
Stokes has the talent and technique, and he's the only batman I'd want at the crease in a crisis at the moment. Yes he isn't consistent enough. But, the last 12 months has shown he can be.
Bowling wise, stone is one for the future, Curran too, and the Overton brothers so they need to either be in the side or in the lions now.
Yeah....as bad as things look now there are some green shoots...got my tin hat on here... Pope has promise, Sibley might have too, Denly is solid.Burns did well before getting injured
Foakes might change the side, any team I've played in you see a class keeper and it seems to lift everyone, don't see why it should be any different with a test team.
England have to sort out the keeper and who Captains-two big decisions then we can move forward.
There is hope.
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World class keeper definitely gives the bowlers a confidence boost. Think Foakes might also be a better foil for the likes of Stokes and Pope as he knows his limitations as a batsman whereas Buttler is so phenomenally talented in white ball cricket I'm not sure he has the same mentality.
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Jos Buttler as good as said he doesn't know how to bat in Test cricket a couple of days ago.
"Since I've come back into Test cricket I've tried to trust my defence for longer periods of time. I've been able to do that on occasions. But [playing my natural game] is certainly something I'm trying to work out.
You can do a lot of work in the nets but I'm spending a lot of time thinking about the game when I'm sat in my room or trying to visualise things or work through them in my head. Moving forward I've got to play the situation, but I will try to be a bit more positive."
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/28404722/not-performing-standards-need-admits-jos-buttler (https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/28404722/not-performing-standards-need-admits-jos-buttler)
I think this perfectly highlights the issues with the current England side.
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So what might a side look like 1 year from now?
Burns
Hameed
Sibley
Root
Stokes *
Pope
Foakes +
Curran S
Archer
Crane
Stone
touring Extras:
Crawley
Clarke
Virdi
Mahmood
Helm
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Burns*
Sibley
Denly
Root
Stokes
Pope
Foakes
Curran
Bess
Stone
Archer
Touring party:
Broad
Crawley
J Clarke (assuming his ban is lifted by then)
Mahmood
Leach
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Jos Buttler as good as said he doesn't know how to bat in Test cricket a couple of days ago.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/28404722/not-performing-standards-need-admits-jos-buttler (https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/28404722/not-performing-standards-need-admits-jos-buttler)
I think this perfectly highlights the issues with the current England side.
No doubt Jos has been shoehorned into the test side because he's such a great attacking threat and everyone thinks he's going to be our Adam Gilchrist, who was a bit of a freak and also had a really solid foundation in the longer format.
Jos is a truly amazing white ball cricketer but has a modest 4 day record (when he actually plays) and the amount of time his attacking style comes off at test level is few and far between because the vast majority of the time we've got our backs against the wall trying to scratch 250 together - he can't come in at 400-5 like Gilchrist used to with the Aussies but that's what he's there for.
It's not his fault the top 6 can't set a platform and he's having to curb his instincts and bat in a way that's pretty alien to him.
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The simple problem for Jos is that the red ball swings and moves even when it’s 40/50/60 overs old, Jos nearly always plays his white balls cricket when the ball used doesn’t swing ever and hardly ever moves off the seam. He has a total of just over 100 first class games at 30 years old and before getting on the test side I believe has played 2 four day games in 2 years so it’s unlikely he will be a successful red ball batter.
The thing I don’t understand is that in all professional sport you pick your best side and I just don’t understand how Butler, Bairstow, Curran to a degree are our best test side but yet we still pick them, i half wonder if it’s for commercial reasons as the ECB is a business at the end of the day and I guess more people will pay for Sky etc to see those names that light up and entertain in white ball as opposed to the Crawleys or Foakes etc that are no doubt better red ball players but are not X Factor names.
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At the end of this series we have to bite the bullet and pension off Anderson and Broad. It’s like we are playing two different games. At home, green pitches and Dukes ball eg a medium pacers dream. Away from home Kookaburra ball eg medium pacers get exposed as being toothless.
Anderson keeps talking about playing in the 2021/22 Ashes, what’s he gonna be offering at the age of 39? Especially with the kookaburra ball.
We need to form an attack for all conditions eg Archer, Stone and/or Wood. The best available spinner. Give that attack 10-15 Tests in the lead up to that Ashes series.
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Not convinced Wood will overcome his injury issues to be part of that group but would love him to manage it. Stone, Archer, Mahmood, JOverton. England aren't short of younger bowlers who can produce serious pace.
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Not convinced Wood will overcome his injury issues to be part of that group but would love him to manage it. Stone, Archer, Mahmood, JOverton. England aren't short of younger bowlers who can produce serious pace.
Pace alone isn't enough though. You still have to use it correctly and put the ball in the right areas for both the batsman and the pitch.
If pace was the key to wickets then Andre van Troost would have taken 100s of international wickets instead of spraying it all over the shop.
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What is this fixation England have with pace bowlers?
In search of these scary quicks Test caps have been handed to the likes of Amjad Khan, Ajmal Shahzad, Sajid Mahmood, Boyd Rankin, Jake Ball and Olly Stone. Why don't we learn from past mistakes?
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Anyone else find ramprakash really annoying?
Constantly criticising enlgand for the things he failed to sort as batting coach, giving reasons for it again when he couldn't fix it as batting coach!!
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Anyone else find ramprakash really annoying?
Constantly criticising enlgand for the things he failed to sort as batting coach, giving reasons for it again when he couldn't fix it as batting coach!!
It would be fascinating to talk to him about the game as he obviously does know his stuff.. but... I quite agree.l the fact he utterly failed as batting coach means he really shouldn’t be there.
KP had some good bits on commentary yesterday if anyone else heard that ?
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Unfortunately not I had the displeasure if talksport but always likes listening to kp talk about the game and his methods
Not my cup of tea and a bit of a t*** but certainly speaks very well and technically well
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Unfortunately not I had the displeasure if talksport but always likes listening to kp talk about the game and his methods
Not my cup of tea and a bit of a t*** but certainly speaks very well and technically well
Oh god KP is a $$¥€¥.. you cns see why he should never lead a team too but.. as you say, his insights, thinking and technical stuff is awesome
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First two overs have shown how much of a mess that first innings was
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Pathetic start from England
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Anderson and broad leaking runs like the first test. Philander and pretortus showed what good control does
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Yeah, we would be completley stuffed without Popes 60 thou
At least we are over 250 here
Im ‘taking the positives’
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SA aren’t a good side, more than capable of collapsing.. they should hammer England but it’s not over until 5 sessions time ...
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Decent start for our Test keeper. Didnt even lay a glove on those 4 byes, pathetic
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There we go.. pathetic shot.. they are just as bad
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Really starting to agree with a few on here about Curran, just no pressure so far from anyone in this session. Lucky to get a wicket and bowling all over the place, is it possibly that actually our bowling is worse than our batting!!
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Bowling been pretty poor so far
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Lovely from Broady
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Lovely from Broady
Top catch too tbf
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Our Jimmy
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See.. this SA team really isn’t very good.
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Really needed those 2 wickets.
Does Popes mature batting now look better?
This lad is early twenties and can only get better
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Curran continuing to bowl pony slow rubbish.
He was the pick of the bowlers last time but today has bee awful. Elgar looks like he is booking in for bed and breakfast against him.
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Really needed those 2 wickets.
Does Popes mature batting now look better?
This lad is early twenties and can only get better
Just like Hameed?
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Appalling from Broad, even worse from the umpires
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Just like Hameed?
Not if you look at the first class records, Pope has been consistent for longer, similar to Rory Burns.
Instead of playing these young players perhaps you want Bairstow back at 6?
We have got to move on and back potential
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Another massive no ball missed
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This is just poor umpiring, time the 3rd ump checks every ball like in the recent India vs West Indies series
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Why on Earth are these not being called! Same in our first dig
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Appalling from Broad, even worse from the umpires
I do agree completely however it is getting ridiculous that they are not using the 3rd umpire to call them regularly.
Broads ball before that was a no ball, so if he's not getting called, automatically he thinks he's behind the line and ok.
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No sympathy at all for a bowler bowling no balls. Since when has it been the umpires duty to ensure the bowler is doing their job properly?
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So why aren’t the england management telling stokes to get his foot behind the line? Surely they have the coverage ahead of them
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No sympathy at all for a bowler bowling no balls. Since when has it been the umpires duty to ensure the bowler is doing their job properly?
Since they were supposed to call no balls
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And another one
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Every ball that Stokes is bowling seems to be a no ball 😠
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Since they were supposed to call no balls
Bowlers are ‘supposed’ to have their feet behind the line...
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Glad to see the bowling coaches are earning their money by ensuring the trundlers keep their foot behind the line. Silverwood doing a fine job of overseeing it too.
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Glad to see the bowling coaches are earning their money by ensuring the trundlers keep their foot behind the line. Silverwood doing a fine job of overseeing it too.
Don’t forget the rest of the 15+ support staff
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This just feels like the first test; have them a few down early on then take our foot off the gas, with added no balls and giving blokes lifelines
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Yeah, he's gonna ton up
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Bowlers are ‘supposed’ to have their feet behind the line...
Umpires are supposed to call no balls this indicates one run to the bowling side and an extra ball
Bowlers shouldn't bowl no balls agreed but umpires should be calling them!
No excuse but if there not called how do they know?
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Vdd deffo getting 100 here!
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There is another factor to the no balls, and that's the runs!! SA have been done out of about 5-10 runs from the actual no balls, then you add in the possible runs off the extra balls, and also the energy it takes out of the bowlers having to bowl them in the sun etc...
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Ball change happens far too often in South Africa - definitely a tactic that’s used by sides there but particularly well by SA at home. Just like the first innings where the replacement ball caused wickets to falls.
This pitch is deteriorating quite quickly
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I can't make my mind up if Bess is doing well going at under 2 an over and holding an end etc... or not because he just doesn't look like any sort of threat at all and not really getting much turn compared to marharaj etc...
Thoughts??
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I can't make my mind up if Bess is doing well going at under 2 an over and holding an end etc... or not because he just doesn't look like any sort of threat at all and not really getting much turn compared to marharaj etc...
Thoughts??
Doing a job holding an end, pitch isn't turning much yet
He looks much improved from last time we saw him!
Going at less than 2 an over letting seamers rotatevwhichbis what we all wanted!
Be nice if he could pick up a few wickets but that'd just he a bonus
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There's one bonus!!!!!
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I can't make my mind up if Bess is doing well going at under 2 an over and holding an end etc... or not because he just doesn't look like any sort of threat at all and not really getting much turn compared to marharaj etc...
Thoughts??
Excellent...... I will take that! Lol
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The main issue is Curran and Stokes leaking runs at 4rpo.
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The main issue is Curran and Stokes leaking runs at 4rpo.
The issuebl just took a huge wicket!!
He really does have the knack!!!
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What on Earth was that from de Kock? Ahahahaha
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What on Earth was that from de Kock? Ahahahaha
He's been watching us bat for a day 😂
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What on Earth was that from de Kock? Ahahahaha
If you are going to play the way he does it’ll come off (last test) and go wrong (this test). Batting at 7 which is probably where he should be it’s perfect ( a la gilly).. just doesn’t work in the top six with a brittle top 5 .. Curran is dire but he has a knack tbf to him
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Has philander changed bat sponsor for this test?? Using DSC pretty sure he had those lovely retro SS stickers last time out!?
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Has philander changed bat sponsor for this test?? Using DSC pretty sure he had those lovely retro SS stickers last time out!?
On the farewell tour, probably getting a nice payday
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Lovely from both Sammy and Stokesy
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This is actually quite good from England
Amazing what a holding spinner can add
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There's always value in playing a spinner, however limited they are, against South Africa. This current batch of South Africans are woeful against spin
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Stokesy dropping a bit of a sitter
Everything is going his way
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AND NOW AN ABSOLUTE RIPPER
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That’s some catch! He’s so close and with it flying off the bat
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Bess definitely looks a better bowler than he did against Pakistan, year and a bit break hasn't done him any harm.
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Yes not much changes, your spinner has to keep it tight if it's not turning and at 2 an over its good work.
I think also if you look back to Moeens role....they want someone who can bat down the order, which Mo did for a while.
Without Woakes, we cannot have a long tail, top order is not getting enough and hasn't for a while.
Bess potentially can score runs too, so a chance has come up for him from nowhere
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Yes not much changes, your spinner has to keep it tight if it's not turning and at 2 an over its good work.
I think also if you look back to Moeens role....they want someone who can bat down the order, which Mo did for a while.
Without Woakes, we cannot have a long tail, top order is not getting enough and hasn't for a while.
Bess potentially can score runs too, so a chance has come up for him from nowhere
Shouldn’t we be telling the top 7 to stand up and not trying to find players who offer bits and pieces ? If a top 6 batter isn’t pulling their weight or as a unit it’s not scoring 300+ regularly then it’s the batters who need dropping.. Ning finding bits and pieces all rounders
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Shouldn’t we be telling the top 7 to stand up and not trying to find players who offer bits and pieces ? If a top 6 batter isn’t pulling their weight or as a unit it’s not scoring 300+ regularly then it’s the batters who need dropping.. Ning finding bits and pieces all rounders
You're right but only in theory, certainly the last 3 years I've watched us it's the middle order and lower order that has got us out of trouble, Moeen played a big part in this from number 7 or 8....
The reality of our batting now is we don't score enough, so we have to get runs from anywhere we can. You say 'bits and pieces' players but they have done a job for us.
We now have a specialist batsman at number 6, 7 is the keeper position and 8....not sure I would call Bess bits and pieces, he can definatley bat I've seen him score runs. He is similar to Moeen in that position.
Personally I think Leach is our best spinner, I like specialist players too-Foakes surely cannot be far away from being picked again.
Again...correct our top 6 are not like we had 5 years ago, to your point of 'drop them' can you honestly say there are better batsmen sat at home and not on this tour??
I can't.....I think we have the best available out there. Is there 1 player who could make a difference with certainty in the top 6 ?
A few potentials like Joe Clarke but reality is we ain't got great batters anymore. Pope maybe could become a consistent run scorer, he has the talent and temperament.
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Shouldn’t we be telling the top 7 to stand up and not trying to find players who offer bits and pieces ? If a top 6 batter isn’t pulling their weight or as a unit it’s not scoring 300+ regularly then it’s the batters who need dropping.. Ning finding bits and pieces all rounders
As a point of principle maybe, but you have to be pragmatic and base decisions on what you have not what you would like to have. When we had a top 7 of Stauss, Cook, Trott, Bell, KP, Colly and Prior all averaging over 40 then lower order runs are a bonus. Since Strauss retired we have tried many openers, none who have come close to being able to average 40. Our top order is based on Rory Burns who averages 33 and Joe Denly at 31. It's not great, but I don't see much that is better to drop them for that hasn't already been tried and failed
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Just a thought here on Bess.
He bowled magnificently yesterday.
The work he has done with Herath has paid off.
Definitely the right call for him to play. I hope he gets a run in the team now.
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He did bowl well indeed, kept it tight which the spinner has to do if theres not much turn early in the game.
We knock them over early today and a lead of 30-40 might pay off later
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Life left in Anderson yet :)
Stokes helps a bit thou, handy fielder!
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An excellent performance with the ball. Now please don't throw this away
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Come on Zak!! Just get in for an hour, 30 odd will do here as a start.
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Life left in Anderson yet :)
Stokes helps a bit thou, handy fielder!
But stokes only averages 30 odd with the bat ;)
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Crawley has looked the part so far. He is clearly one for the future. Hope he gets a good run.
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Rabada thinks Crawley is Don Bradman then
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Very very steep learning curve for Crawley.
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Just a thought here on Bess.
He bowled magnificently yesterday.
The work he has done with Herath has paid off.
Definitely the right call for him to play. I hope he gets a run in the team now.
Here is a strange thought. He could indeed get a run in the team ahead of Leach...whilst still being left out for Leach when both are available for Somerset!
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Crawley has looked the part so far.
When? I definitely missed that bit...
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Very very steep learning curve for Crawley.
Yes gone now but 25 ain't too bad, he's young with potential, got to have a run now with Burns out for the series.
Sibley looks more of an old style opener, blocker, which we need.Crawley plays a few more shots it appears
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Here is a strange thought. He could indeed get a run in the team ahead of Leach...whilst still being left out for Leach when both are available for Somerset!
This is very likely.
Which is mad, but welcome to English cricket.
The next tour is to SL so we will need to have both (possibly plus Moeen).
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This is very likely.
Which is mad, but welcome to English cricket.
The next tour is to SL so we will need to have both (possibly plus Moeen).
Getting ahead of myself here, but it will be interesting to see who they pick as the third spinner if Moeen isn't available
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This is very likely.
Which is mad, but welcome to English cricket.
Indeed. Or perhaps welcome to Headingley for Bess...
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Getting ahead of myself here, but it will be interesting to see who they pick as the third spinner if Moeen isn't available
Unless Ali is available, I don't see them picking three in the XI - Stokes knee needs protection so he won't be one of two seamers, and there is not an obvious candidate amongst our other spinners to bat seven in a three and three attack. I'd expect Root and Denly to bowl some overs.
Third in the squad... I'd like to see Virdi go. There are some decent young spinners in English cricket but he's the only one who has sufficient experience and a tight enough line. I suspect it'll be Liam Dawson tho. 🤔
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Unless Ali is available, I don't see them picking three in the XI - Stokes knee needs protection so he won't be one of two seamers, and there is not an obvious candidate amongst our other spinners to bat seven in a three and three attack. I'd expect Root and Denly to bowl some overs.
Third in the squad... I'd like to see Virdi go. There are some decent young spinners in English cricket but he's the only one who has sufficient experience and a tight enough line. I suspect it'll be Liam Dawson tho. 🤔
Yeah don't think we will take 3 if there's not enough available good enough to play.root and Denly can bowl a few with leach and Bess if he is in(looks likely)
A recent tour to Sri Lanka or the UAE can't remember which but our seamers did pretty well when they were deemed redundant prior to the tour.
I think Ali is playing in the Pakistan league during the Lankan tour, not sure thou.
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Denly throwing away another good start
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Root really worries me when he bats like this.... he just looks so frenetic and out of control
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When is Maharaj going to stop bowling this negative leg side crap?
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Brilliant stuff from Sibley, he's got to bat his way. SA are nearly out of this game and others can can up the scoring rate if we need to.
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Lead by 200
Isn't this the platform we need for our middle order to cause mayhem?
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Lead by 200
Isn't this the platform we need for our middle order to cause mayhem?
:)
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Quite glad we're not batting last on this deck after that Root wicket
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Quite glad we're not batting last on this deck after that Root wicket
More so the ball to Bess two later that nearly killed de Kock.
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He may have bagged a pair, but Dom Bess has done his job almost perfectly there.
Took 100% of the strike while out there and ensured Stokes is in early tomorrow to (hopefully) kick on
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He may have bagged a pair, but Dom Bess has done his job almost perfectly there.
Took 100% of the strike while out there and ensured Stokes is in early tomorrow to (hopefully) kick on
Is it just me who thinks the drs was clearly wrong? Left screen showed the ball on his side/chest and the right image showed the glove. Don’t think the images were both in time with the scniko image.
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Another 100 or so more runs and it will be tough for SA to win.
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Thought Sibley looked top notch today. He doesn’t seem to get rattled by anything. Definitely got everything that’s required to perform and succeed at test level.
Crawley looked good too. He’s got all the shots - just needs to work on concentration and weaken the bottom hand a bit and he’ll be a regular for years to come.
Another frustrating Denly performance. I hope he’ll get a ton before he turns 40.
Pleased Root got some runs. He’s skippered very well in this match.
Ageless Anderson is a phenomenon. He could play until he’s 40 easily. What a bowler.
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Crawley, Pope, Sibley.
No one is saying these guys are world beaters but isn't is refreshing to see young players being given a chance.
England have stuck too long with the likes of Bairstow, finally we can move forward.
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Pope and Sibley's bread and butter is red ball cricket. It's no surprise that they've looked impressive once they've gotten in.
Anyway already got enough. Another 50-75 and South Africa will be mentally broken.
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Crawley, Pope, Sibley.
No one is saying these guys are world beaters but isn't is refreshing to see young players being given a chance.
England have stuck too long with the likes of Bairstow, finally we can move forward.
Reports suggest Burns could miss Sri Lanka know as will require surgery on his Ankle so a great chance for those 3 to cement and nail down some spots and if Crawley and Sibley manage to have strong ends to this tour then there may actually be a chance that we have a crop of players worth picking to go with and not just show horn in someone who has failed in the past. Would love to see two early twenties at the top of the order and have 12/18 months test cricket behind them before next ashes.
Add in if we can get Foakes into this side and we finally have a mixture of youth (with talent) experience that has shown what’s possible and specialist player behind the stumps. Fingers crossed.
Great days test cricket today especially from what was considered a make shift side at the start of this test. Two good sessions tomorrow with the bat and we have every chance of levelling the series.
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If this is true about Burns it could be a blessing in disguise. There are a lot of ifs and maybes here, but in an ideal world:
Crawley and Sibley will cement their places at the top of the order. When Burns comes back one of those 3 could move down to first drop with Denly being thanked for his efforts.
We'd then have 3 players at the top of the order who should hopefully stay in the side for the foreseeable. Burns could then take over as captain allowing Root to focus on just batting.
Clearly I'm dreaming, but that would be nice, wouldn't it...
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Crawley still a work in progress I reckon but he's got real promise. Impressed with Sibley's application and attitude yet again, think England have found a serious Test batsman.
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I think some of the England fans on CBF need to make up their minds about Sibley and Crawley. After the first inning neither were good enough and now after one good inning they are thought be future stars :D
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The vast majority of comments I’ve read says give them a chance and let’s see.
Most of us believe it not have patience with the team if it’s moving in a direction we understand.
Which is a mixture of proven players and some younger batsmen who need time but picked over those who failed for a long period of time.
As many of us have said some green shoots are appearing :)
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I think some of the England fans on CBF need to make up their minds about Sibley and Crawley. After the first inning neither were good enough and now after one good inning they are thought be future stars :D
Don’t think I’ve seen anyone question Sibley, most have been calling for him for a year before he came into the side and looks a solid opener, albeit a tad weak outside off but seems to be learning very quickly. Crawley I think is a bit more attacking than Sibley much like Burns so the two could work well. If we win this match they will at least get the next test together just got to get through the new ball tomorrow morning.
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Not sure if it has been said already, but I see quite a bit of Trott in watching Sibley bat. The way he flicks off his hip and through mid wicket, and his follow through all looks very familiar. Obviously the county link and perhaps done quite a lot of work together, also how he stays calm and uncluttered by the situation
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I wouldn't be kissing Denly goodbye yet, I think he's a better option than Crawley just at the moment.
I'm looking forward to Stokes as a batsman/6th bowler, a keeper at 6 and 5 bowlers.
Post the big 2 retiring, how about:
Burns
Sibley
Stokes
Root
Pope
Flakes
Woakes
Curran
Bess
Archer
Stone
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I wouldn't be kissing Denly goodbye yet, I think he's a better option than Crawley just at the moment.
I'm looking forward to Stokes as a batsman/6th bowler, a keeper at 6 and 5 bowlers.
Post the big 2 retiring, how about:
Burns
Sibley
Stokes
Root
Pope
Flakes
Woakes
Curran
Bess
Archer
Stone
Have we seen enough of Stone to warrant a spot? He doesnt/hasnt played enough cricket in general for me, granted he has pace but needs to back it up with a strong injury free season
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I think some of the England fans on CBF need to make up their minds about Sibley and Crawley. After the first inning neither were good enough and now after one good inning they are thought be future stars :D
Inning?
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I wouldn't be kissing Denly goodbye yet, I think he's a better option than Crawley just at the moment.
I'm looking forward to Stokes as a batsman/6th bowler, a keeper at 6 and 5 bowlers.
Post the big 2 retiring, how about:
Burns
Sibley
Stokes
Root
Pope
Flakes
Woakes
Curran
Bess
Archer
Stone
Flakes crumbles under pressure.
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Hahaha, what a fat-thumbed (No Swearing Please) I am! Foakes will not flake!!
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Inning?
Nope. Innings is both the singular and plural (unless you're American, in which case you're wrong...)
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Woakes is certainly good enough to bat at 7. Curran needs to work on his batting to be a convincing long term 7/8. Foakes behind a proper top 5 is good enough for 6 likewise.
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Nope. Innings is both the singular and plural (unless you're American, in which case you're wrong...)
Yes, exactly why I was questioning its use.
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Not sure why Ben Foakes can now be considered a better bat than Buttler or Bairstow!
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Not sure exactly what 'post the big two' quite means as I can see Jimmy and Broad playing at home all summer this season. I would keep Denly too he is more valuable to the team than he appears on just stats alone
If we project to summer 2020 I would have the 15 to be
Burns
Sibley
Denly
Crawley
Root
Stokes
Foakes
Butler
Woakes
Bess
Leach
Curran
Broad
Anderson
Pope
Archer.
Stone maybe/another seamer.
Of that we revert to a specialist keeper and that would mean butler as a batsman only which I don't think he gets in the final 11.
I can't think of another batsmen who should get a shot, think it's time to work with younger players(batting) and their work and training geared to the 5 day game. Hard when the CC is shoehorned at the start and end of the season.
Perhaps an idea would be for the test players identified when their Counties are not playing CC they should be allocated the the highest club cricket they can in their area and the ameteur rules relaxed to allow this.
Wonder what others think of the last point
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Not sure why Ben Foakes can now be considered a better bat than Buttler or Bairstow!
Because if you go on Cricinfo his test batting average is higher ;)
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Because if you go on Cricinfo his test batting average is higher ;)
Well, I'm happy if that gets him the job. No.7 though, I think.
Why have we decided that Stokes is finished as a bowler?
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Nope. Innings is both the singular and plural (unless you're American, in which case you're wrong...)
I guess I am wrong, since I am American 😂
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Stokes is ridiculous
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Stokes is ridiculous
Nice bat!
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God I love seeing a hacked off Rabada
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If only we can give stokes this sort of platform more often!!!!
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Stokes might get to 100 before Sibbers.
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I love test cricket so much. Sibley is still kicking the ball half the time and it's brilliant. Is today the day when having a ridiculous 5-6-7 lineup finally pays off properly?
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SIBBERS
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Well done Sibbers!!!
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Well batted Dominic Sibley
That's a proper Test innings that!
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Gargantuan effort from Sibley, thoroughly deserved this!
-
Excruciating commentary on TalkSport2 at the moment.
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Excruciating commentary on TalkSport2 at the moment.
It's kinda funny though! Slightly better than the usual rabble!
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Great knock from Sibley and a stunning knock from Stokes, takes the game away from SA in 60 mins
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Poor Jack Leach on the balcony looks like he's lost several stone! Was surprised they kept him out there given he'd more or less been stuck in bed for a month, but even more so given how gaunt he still looks. Send him home and tell him to recover before SL the poor bloke.
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Well batted Ben Stokes!!!
great knock taken this away from SA in an hour now pope buttler and co can carry on!
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Root gets a lot of abuse of his poor captaincy, but surely du Plessis is worse? Some of his bowling tactics have been awful in this match.
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Finally this feared middle order is actually allowed to do what it's supposed to.. This is fun :) Now, all they need to do is remember how they've approached this innings and repeat :)
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How many does Joe Root want before declaring?
With Stokes' assault on the bowers the game has moved on at a rate of knots today.
The lead is almost 400 and there's still a day and 2 full sessions to go, so time shouldn't be an issue
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we should be declaring right now, get them in while we have the upper hand
this is the sort of cricket I like, proper test match when the middle order can put bat to ball and the top half gets in and stays in
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Congratulations Sibley on a wonderful knock.
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I think they'll hope for ten overs of carnage this afternoon then knock it on the head - anything over 450 means the Yarpies will have to go consistently at 100 runs per session to win, which is enough that they almost certainly won't whilst just leaving open enough of a possibility that they won't stonewall from ball one.
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How many does Joe Root want before declaring?
With Stokes' assault on the bowers the game has moved on at a rate of knots today.
The lead is almost 400 and there's still a day and 2 full sessions to go, so time shouldn't be an issue
I think there is merit in batting on until tea or post tea and just grind SA in the dirt.... physically and mentally break them for the next games as much as this one.
Well done the entire top 5.. lovely
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Root gets a lot of abuse of his poor captaincy, but surely du Plessis is worse? Some of his bowling tactics have been awful in this match.
He is just as bad as Root but sadly, like us.. they have no alternatives
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He is just as bad as Root but sadly, like us.. they have no alternatives
Id say we do have an alternative..
Theres a member of our side who has been successful in his main job (Batsman) and lead his county to the CC title whilst scoring over 1000 runs for the season
more experience than Root had before he took over...
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Id say we do have an alternative..
Theres a member of our side who has been successful in his main job (Batsman) and lead his county to the CC title whilst scoring over 1000 runs for the season
more experience than Root had before he took over...
Harsh to ask a new lad in the England set up who also bats top 3 to do it before they've established themselves. Root whilst never a top 3 batter had the stats behind batting wise to lead and had a 100% secure test spot. However, another 12 months or so, if Burns is still performing well enough then sure.. why not.. We need Root the batsmen back.
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Harsh to ask a new lad in the England set up who also bats top 3 to do it before they've established themselves. Root whilst never a top 3 batter had the stats behind batting wise to lead and had a 100% secure test spot. However, another 12 months or so, if Burns is still performing well enough then sure.. why not.. We need Root the batsmen back.
Totally agree it is harsh but at least eh has the experience of doing both roles even if it is down a level
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Sibley melting a huge 6 after a day of commentary questioning whether he can score quicker and play his shots might be my highlight of this series so far.
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not being funny but england still havnt hit 400 in a test match :D
declared 391-8 lead by plenty
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Doing a little bit for Denly
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I have a bad feeling about this...
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I have a bad feeling about this...
Do SA have the kahunas to bat out 4 full sessions... I doubt it.. Just keep plugging away
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DENNERS
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Walk you cheat!!!!
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Denly you Legend great wicket that
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Do SA have the kahunas to bat out 4 full sessions... I doubt it.. Just keep plugging away
It was a good start with both openers using Kahunas, but noone else in their side is with Kook so they could be in trouble!
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ah Joe, our allrounder
right the gate is open lets pile thru
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(https://im.ezgif.com/tmp/ezgif-1-930a0fc16b48.gif)
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Pitch is looking flat
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Isn't the stem/neck guard thing mandatory?
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Isn't the stem/neck guard thing mandatory?
No.
Just helmets for england at all time, not sure for any other nations
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No.
Just helmets for england at all time, not sure for any other nations
Thank you
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It was a good start with both openers using Kahunas, but noone else in their side is with Kook so they could be in trouble!
Norjte is but uses which ever model has the black stickers
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anyone know what shoes stokes has on?
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anyone know what shoes stokes has on?
SA battling hard here.. good to see them knuckle down rather than the usual method for teams of hit out or get out
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No.
Just helmets for england at all time, not sure for any other nations
I think we are the only Nation who makes it mandatory for it's players to use helmets as well?? I could be wrong
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Love you Jimmy
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Once we break through Faf and Malan it's all over.
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jimmy is 37
does anyone care thou! :)
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JIMMY!!!
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jimmy is 37
does anyone care thou! :)
Well we should care because we need to have a 25-28 year old replacement for him already sorted really... OR at the very least close to being a replacement.... We don't
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Well we should care because we need to have a 25-28 year old replacement for him already sorted really... OR at the very least close to being a replacement.... We don't
I think Woakes has always been pencilled in but injuries perhaps might stall that.
world class fast bowlers are hard to replace. I suspect we wont come close to replacing him at all.
best bowler ive even seen in an England shirt, Truman perhaps is the only comparison for those old enough(im not)
:)
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He's the all-time leading test quick, of course we don't have a replacement ready!
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He's the all-time leading test quick, of course we don't have a replacement ready!
Even if we did Ed, I'm sure they'd be labelled 'pathetic' on here by some... ;)
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He's the all-time leading test quick, of course we don't have a replacement ready!
Sigh, ready doesn't mean totally replace but at least a test class or close to test class bowler with some experience would be nice... We literally only have Woakes to replace Anderson AND Broad. Anyway, a good day's cricket coming up if SA keep applying themselves and don't go all attacking and gift it away.
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Predictions for today???
I'm hopeful but tentative
New ball will be key need at least a couple down before then!
Plus Maharaj
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Any of you getting a PR bat anytime soon?
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God bless Jimmy
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Even if we did Ed, I'm sure they'd be labelled 'pathetic' on here by some... ;)
Too right sadly, the writing off of Sibley in New Zealand on here and elsewhere was pretty depressing.
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Any of you getting a PR bat anytime soon?
I think a lot of people have Sondhi made bats, Protos is the Sondhi own brand I believe.
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Out of nowhere, Faf goes
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Go on Dom!
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Out of nowhere, Faf goes
reckless From Faf.. awful when he's saving a game. That's like watching England normally. Game is gone now for SA as VVD gave so many chances in his normal knocks he just won't survive unless he has a day out. Malan battling hard, well batted lad.
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I can't claim to know anything about South African domestic cricket but it seems a bit surprise to me that Malan has had to wait until he is 30 to play test cricket. Looks a very well organised player
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He has had some pretty decent competition for an opening slot until recently.
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I can't claim to know anything about South African domestic cricket but it seems a bit surprise to me that Malan has had to wait until he is 30 to play test cricket. Looks a very well organised player
markham and elgar are the men in possession. He could probably have been given the 3 slot though given Amla's decline etc.
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markham and elgar are the men in possession. He could probably have been given the 3 slot though given Amla's decline etc.
Looks far better organised than Heino Kuhn who opened when South Africa toured England in 2017. Given South Africa haven't excelled with the bat in recent times it just seems a surprise to me that a lad with with a FC average of 45 hadn't been given a chance earlier than he has
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I think a lot of people have Sondhi made bats, Protos is the Sondhi own brand I believe.
Yes it is. Remember seeing so many of them as kid when I use to visit sports market in Jalandhar. Sondi factory is hardly 3 miles away from my home in India.
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Looks far better organised than Heino Kuhn who opened when South Africa toured England in 2017. Given South Africa haven't excelled with the bat in recent times it just seems a surprise to me that a lad with with a FC average of 45 hadn't been given a chance earlier than he has
No idea tbf. Someone who watches SA domestic cricket regularly may have more clues. Maybe they have just as many clowns in selection as we do?
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It’s interesting to note that in South Africa’s first class scene only three men average 50+. Thenuis de Bruyn, his replacement Zubayr Hamza and Janneman Malan - he’s the younger brother of the chap debuting in his match.
As for P Malan even if he gets a century, his long term hopes revolves around du Plessis, as Markram would probably move down to 4 and become captain.
The quotas thing will probably re-emerge at some point as well
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Looks far better organised than Heino Kuhn who opened when South Africa toured England in 2017. Given South Africa haven't excelled with the bat in recent times it just seems a surprise to me that a lad with with a FC average of 45 hadn't been given a chance earlier than he has
South Africa have an odd system where for some reason their tier of multi-day cricket below the high level also has first class status. I believe it was mentioned somewhere that he only actually averaged mid 30s at the higher level.
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Sammy you little ripper
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SAMMY C YOU LITTLE BEAUTY!!!!!!!!!!
Come on england ram through this opening now! VDD and De Kock arent blockers come on!!!
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SAMMY C YOU LITTLE BEAUTY!!!!!!!!!!
Come on england ram through this opening now! VDD and De Kock arent blockers come on!!!
Game over
Malan showed the way for SA but no one else has really applied themselves well enough.
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Denly looking dangerous
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Foakes becoming a better player by the hour.
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Fair play to VVD and De Kock currently... They are trying to save the game. This is good to see rather than reckless 'counter attacking' . England being made to work rather than just sit back and wait for the batter to give it away.
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Foakes becoming a better player by the hour.
Funny how India and Australia select Saha and Paine over Pant and Carey but we don’t pick Foakes...
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Fair play to VVD and De Kock currently... They are trying to save the game. This is good to see rather than reckless 'counter attacking' . England being made to work rather than just sit back and wait for the batter to give it away.
Pretty sure Graeme Smith might kick QdK in his nuts if he gets out slogging
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de Kock isn't going to last as long as Denly is bowling
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May as well shake hands now.
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May as well shake hands now.
why?? If you're not good enough to take wickets when batters aren't slogging (sorry, 'playing positively') then you don't deserve to win. However, this is when Root and co earn their corn.. you have to tempt them into shots.. into a mistake... Another skill being lost sadly
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We essentially need 5 good balls out of 40 overs. I’d back the bowlers every time
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We essentially need 5 good balls out of 40 overs. I’d back the bowlers every time
If you don't back your bowlers then you probably need to look at your bowling line up. However, this is a good game and both sides would come out happy with a draw as both would deserve the draw where as neither side really deserves to win (as of yet)... Bit of magic, bit of brain dead batting or sheer luck needed.. this is when it gets exciting though!!! nearly... Mr Root.. nearly.... VVD drawn into shots...
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this is perhaps why 5 day tests should remain in place, short form stuff fine there is a format that most can like
but leave the purest form alone
please!
-
Not sure where 5 good balls are coming from
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Not sure where 5 good balls are coming from
Brain fade batting or Luck it is then.. Just got to keep doing the right things.. get some fielders around the bat.. England seen really defensive in the field... Make him play shots! Get a man at bat pad.. short leg.. maybe around the corner .. just keep changing it up but attack attack attack
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This is impressive from VVD and De Kock.. Really good discipline.
-
Field does look far too defensive given the game situation. I left we better on far too long yesterday with a period of time being taken out of the game for no real purpose but the benefit to sitting on such a large score should be that you can set more attacking fields.
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Field does look far too defensive given the game situation. I left we better on far too long yesterday with a period of time being taken out of the game for no real purpose but the benefit to sitting on such a large score should be that you can set more attacking fields.
TBF, I don't think anyone would have backed SA to play like this.
Bess now has to demonstrate he can take wickets as a spinner though.. Now's his time...
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I don't get why we set defensive fields for vd Dussan. I know QdK does the brain fade moments but we should surround vd Dussan as well
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I don't get why we set defensive fields for vd Dussan. I know QdK does the brain fade moments but we should surround vd Dussan as well
surround them both... so many runs to play with who cares if they score runs..
So I hate sledging but in this situation it's fine.. In a test when saving a game etc.. Limited overs though.. utterly pointless as the batter will give it away anyway as they have to biff so sledging is pointless...
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we have to have as many as possible in catching positions, we have asked them to score I don't know, maybe a world record score to win at 0-1 down
having said that if SA get off the field with a draw you have to congratulate them
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What’s this rubbish about 4 day test matches - this ones going to the final session
Agreed that root’s captaincy is extremely poor with men on the boundaries
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FINALLY they surround the bat and a chance created.. Well batted SA.. Well done England... Game on.
SA Top six really has played good Test cricket and England have been decent as well. Please please just attack more with the field .. runs utterly irrelevant .
I have to say I'm enjoying seeing this game as it's good test cricket and not just a one day style game.
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we have to have as many as possible in catching positions, we have asked them to score I don't know, maybe a world record score to win at 0-1 down
having said that if SA get off the field with a draw you have to congratulate them
You do.. Plus we have to ask why we couldn't take the wickets too mind.. Always got to ask why you couldn't win.
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Meh session. Don't see anythiong other than a draw after that
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Meh session. Don't see anythiong other than a draw after that
draw is a good result for both sides, neither currently deserves to win or lose this game. Would you have preferred to see a minefield and easy pray for bowlers? or a 'counter attack' and gifting wickets?
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sounds like Jimmy sadly is injured.
-
sounds like Jimmy sadly is injured.
If he is, are we going to let him keep recovering and coming back half injured? At 37 he's only ever going to take longer to recover and then gain match fitness? I'm not saying retire him but again.. it's worth considering as he's now not made it through more than one entire game in a loooong time now... (8 months is it?)
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DENNERS
-
Here we go!!!!!!
Brain dead batting has won out :)
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And that is how you throw away a review
-
Denly proving that s**t really does get wickets...
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Denly proving that s**t really does get wickets...
In draw/test formats it's what you need.. someone to bowl a mix of the wonderful balls and rubbish that batsmen can't resist (De Kock) having a go at.. If you just bang away accurately then batsmen will just blunt you out.. IN which case, you are then relying on the wicket doing the work for you or having someone able to bowl with fierce pace or wizard spin etc..
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CAPTAINCY GENIUS
-
GET THE FUNK IN
Funky fields at last!!!
I mean, well batted VVD.. excellent.. Another Brain fart though !!
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SA doing their best to throw it away - rubbish from dekock, Vd and faf
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SA doing their best to throw it away - rubbish from dekock, Vd and faf
Rubbish from them having all done the right things until that point. They all played in good long partnerships and VVD and De Kock especially (and Malan) really did fight.
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Buttler calling Philander a knobhead, glorious
-
Buttler calling Philander a knobhead, glorious
Probably crosses the line into personal abuse though and use of foul language ?
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Philander playing one day cricket ... perfect.. you keep trying to slog fella..
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If he is, are we going to let him keep recovering and coming back half injured? At 37 he's only ever going to take longer to recover and then gain match fitness? I'm not saying retire him but again.. it's worth considering as he's now not made it through more than one entire game in a loooong time now... (8 months is it?)
Eventually, however fit an individual is, the body decides time is time. At the age of 37 it doesn't look like Anderson’s body wants to do it anymore
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This is phenomenal from Stokes
-
Stokes’ pace has been fabulous this match, iirc only Nortje has bowled faster.
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Stokes deserved that!
Is the England victory or, or will the South African tail produce some heroics
-
England don't deserve Ben Stokes!
Who was it saying he wasn't a genuine all rounder?
He's produced moments of magic to swing the momentum in England's favour with bat and ball this test alone!
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Crawley can keep his place just for that catch, that was unreal! great reflexes.
Stokes is like a man possessed. he's a cricket freak.
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Who wants 4 day tests hey!
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I'm pacing up and down my living room currently.. My live online course can just go swivel
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WHAT A GAME
-
Congratulations England.
-
Seriously man, Stokes is just on another level
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Ben Stokes for Sports Personality Of The Year 2020!
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Test cricket is just so good isn't it. (No Swearing Please) four day games.
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There can be no argument that stokes is the worlds best all rounder, keeps putting in match winning performances. Overall. Great test match and a good England performance, all year young players making contributions and look forward to them having a little bit of confidence now going into the 2nd half of the series.
Bit of a worry that Anderson looks injured again but fingers crossed Archer is fit for the next test so can replace him if needed.
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Really good test match, really good overall performance from this side. Test cricket is so so so good when it comes down to the wire and all results are possible. Cricket.. take note!! No other format offers this drama
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Great last session. Sir Ben Stokes has really improved since I bought all of his bats.
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something that has been missed but talk-sport mentioned was roots captaincy.
I have to agree with them that this was his best game as captain got most things right
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Ben proved he is absolutely world class. Root got it right with his captaincy. Valiant effort from the saffas but my god what a performance from stokes.
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At this rate he’s going to have to write another book on how he carried England to victory in the 2020 season too.
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Philander was englands second best player, refusing that single cost 2 wickets, legend
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pretty sure he snared one 1st innings as well by turning down a run then too, so 3 in the match for us!
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Great match. Glad we're not playing Oz this winter. They are looking unbeatable. Their bowling and batting are a joy to watch, if slightly worrying for the ashes...
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Sibley's performance very encouraging, Root improving as captain - long may it continue, Stokes showing his match winning qualities. Still a lot of issues to address but encouraging all round performance.
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Best Test match in a long time for me..best 5th day. Great efforts from both teams.
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Now been confirmed that Rory Burns will miss the next 4 months due to ankle surgery. Wishing Crawley the best of luck for the next two tests as generally think he could be a long term solution to our top 3
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I’ve heard that Jennings is the next cab off the rank for replacing Burns. Sigh. Just as I was starting to feel a bit better about English red ball cricket too.
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I’ve heard that Jennings is the next cab off the rank for replacing Burns. Sigh. Just as I was starting to feel a bit better about English red ball cricket too.
No problem with that as it’s in Asia and his record is actually quite good in Asia. However I hope it’s as a back up and we persist with younger players and not continue to pick them play them for a test or two and then discard them. However now the ball is in Crawleys court as Sibley has proved he is capable with a big score and Zak needs to do the same or show he can get England into our position to allow our middle order to do what they do best which is come in at 200 odd for 3 not 50/3 which has happened to often. Wishing our young players the best of luck
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I’ve heard that Jennings is the next cab off the rank for replacing Burns. Sigh. Just as I was starting to feel a bit better about English red ball cricket too.
Yes press reports think he is going based on runs scored on the last trip-he is a decent player of spin...
Selectors have been chopping and changing a lot in the last 3 years I think and hope we stick with the team now as far as batting is concerned. I would still have Denly but with Crawley and Sibley. They have potential and I think deserve to be stuck with.
Says a lot for me Stokes tried to give his MOM to Sibley-he knows the value of an old skool opener who can bat long and take pressure off others-Including our bowlers.
I think Jennings will stay off the tour to SL now
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Now been confirmed that Rory Burns will miss the next 4 months due to ankle surgery.
Wow, that's a lot of time out for a game of warm up football.
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Burns and Sibley! Have we finally found our Strauss and Cook replacements?
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Jennings makes a lot of sense as a backup opener/3 in SL conditions, don't see an issue with that. Not sure Crawley has earned himself a starting spot yet but definitely worth a development spot in the squad.
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Says a lot for me Stokes tried to give his MOM to Sibley-he knows the value of an old skool opener who can bat long and take pressure off others-Including our bowlers.
It was very classy of Stokes and as you say, appreciates that Sibley (and the others in the top 3) really did set this game up. It's donkey work, under appreciated work but it's vital to a Test team. Sadly, Jennings is the sensible choice for Asia but I do hope they keep Crawley in for all the other games and take him to Asia even if it's just to learn. Really enjoyable Test match, best for many a year (Sure Headingly was fun but only because of one extraordinary knock and Leech and his cleaning of the glasses :) ).
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Jennings might be a decent player of spin, but he’s got a big issue against pace. Surely they will be aware of that and they will simply target him with pace rather than spin?
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Jennings makes a lot of sense as a backup opener/3 in SL conditions, don't see an issue with that. Not sure Crawley has earned himself a starting spot yet but definitely worth a development spot in the squad.
Crawley probably has the next two tests so potentially 4 innings to. Get the score to stay as the opening partner to Sibley in SL if he doesn’t than i guess its Jennings with him as the back up.
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Jennings might be a decent player of spin, but he’s got a big issue against pace. Surely they will be aware of that and they will simply target him with pace rather than spin?
Not sure they have anyone with actual pace do they?? Normally Lakmal and cant remember the other lad are about 80MPH
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Jennings for SL is a sensible option.
He is a very good and proven player of spin and in the sub continent. This is likely to be a horses for courses pick for one tour while Burns is out. Plus Sibley and Crawley are totally unknown quantities against quality spin.
I don't really understand why people would complain about this.
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Jennings for SL is a sensible option.
He is a very good and proven player of spin and in the sub continent. This is likely to be a horses for courses pick for one tour while Burns is out. Plus Sibley and Crawley are totally unknown quantities against quality spin.
I don't really understand why people would complain about this.
I agree with you BUT... we all know how terrible this England management/Selector set up is.. Do you really believe IF Jennings happens to do ok/well in SL that suddenly, he wouldn't suddenly be hailed as 'back' and 'he's the man in possession' etc etc.. suddenly he's taken a opening slot and Crawley is left on the sidelines. Then we watch Jennings utterly fail again against anything other than plod/SL and miss the chance to develop Crawley.
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Jennings is also fantastic under the lid in close - get him in the side!
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Jimmy out of the tour with a rib injury
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Is it time to concede this is the beginning of the end for Jimmy?
He's been a great servant to English cricket and his achievements are remarkable, but age seems to be catching up with him.
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Is it time to concede this is the beginning of the end for Jimmy?
He's been a great servant to English cricket and his achievements are remarkable, but age seems to be catching up with him.
Nooooo say it ain’t so.
When I was 14 I was in the men’s team at my club, wondering why they were bothering with bandages, strap(on)s, deep heat, 5 fags and a pint of beer just to get on the field and thought: why? Why are these old people straining themselves just to play?
Then you become them and understand...
Can we squeeze another home series out of JA or will time have the final say? A fairytale ending at the Oval and a ten fer is the only way to go surely :)
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If that's Anderson cooked, a pretty decent way to go out. 5fer away from home, often used as a stick to beat him with. A win in Cape Town after 60 odd years. Can't get much better than that
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Not sure I would be writing off seam bowler who has pulled up with 2 injuries in 12 months. If that were the cut off point it would be a game for spinners
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Not many 37 year old seam bowlers get over 2 injuries in 12 months
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Not many 37 year old seam bowlers get over 2 injuries in 12 months
If it were joint or back issues you would feel it was time to call it a day, but muscle problems effect bowlers of any age
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Just read it's a broken rib so should be ok but still cause for concern
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Cracked rib will be easier to get over than ligament or muscle injury
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If it were joint or back issues you would feel it was time to call it a day, but muscle problems effect bowlers of any age
Jimmy has put on his Instagram that it's a broken rib and should hopefully heal in a few weeks. :o
https://www.instagram.com/p/B7EjYsRFin0/?igshid=1ph5vya7o2jyb (https://www.instagram.com/p/B7EjYsRFin0/?igshid=1ph5vya7o2jyb)
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Jimmy has put on his Instagram that it's a broken rib and should hopefully heal in a few weeks. :o
https://www.instagram.com/p/B7EjYsRFin0/?igshid=1ph5vya7o2jyb (https://www.instagram.com/p/B7EjYsRFin0/?igshid=1ph5vya7o2jyb)
I assumed from the earlier medical report that it was an.intercostal muscle injury but if it is confirmed as a broken rib then thatnis good news
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The latest news has made my day, he got over the calf injury and seems mentally strong enough to come back, the joy when we won you could just see.
But seriously I think we have to get out of him as much as we can, we won’t replace him but just look at the rest for comparison:
Woakes..like him but he does get injured and no where near in the same class
Wood...as above
Broad....dunno seems fit and bowling well the last 12 months
Overton..no idea if he’s any good
Curran....good but dibbly dobbly pace-will end up a batsman
Stokes...won’t be bowling much
And
Archer....hmmm gut feeling is a short form bowler I’m afraid, could be short lived.
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Agree with the above (apart from Curran), just hope the old boys have time to pass on their test match experience to the newbies.
With regard to Curran, I think he is really good. I accept he doesn't stand out as a bowler, but he gives you absolutely 100% and like a little Jack Russell dog, nipping around your ankles. He'll rile your patience and then get a wicket or two.
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I don’t particularly rate Curran as a bowler, but all the while he continues to be a bit of a golden arm for England, it doesn’t make any sense to drop him.
I know in recent months people have been saying that the batting cupboard is bare, but the bowling cupboard isn’t looking that great either. Overton is not, and will never be a good enough bowler for international cricket. Wood is a fine bowler, but he can’t be trusted.
Graeme Smith has a lot to answer for for destroying Finn’s international career.
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Agree Craig Overton isn't up to international cricket as a bowler, but there's plenty more options coming through than just him or Wood.
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Porter and Roland-Jones for two.
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Not sure you can have Woakes and Anderson as a like for like comparison, and then say Chris Woakes isn't as good a bowler - Of course not, Jimmy has always been a bowler whereas Woakes is an all rounder that splits his time doing 2 separate disciplines. Same for Sam Curran, he's probably as good with the bat as his bowling.
If you're going to compare a guy who bowls fantastically and bats 11 with guys who bat and bowl in equal measure it's pretty unfair to expect them to be as good as Jimmy has been.
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If Olly Stone can get fit he should be decent enough, look good vs ireland (i know its only ireland) but has a decent first class record just a shame about the injuries recently
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Woakes' problem is he's only made for home conditions; can't do anything with the Kookaburra
I expect Archer to come back in for Anderson and that'll be it
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NSame for Sam Curran, he's probably as good with the bat as his bowling.
Ok, so he came off vs India..... Just look at the sum total of the rest of his knocks... This constant thread that Curran is/will be some sort of quality Bat is baffling... Stop over rating players before they actually achieve something consistently. He isn't and hasn't ever done well in Country Cricket with the bat!! Let alone Tests..
Woakes is No Anderson and at the age he's at, never will be.. However, he's the most effective replacement there is. He does sadly seem to have a Chronic Knee injury though which means yet again, he's probably more of a short term solution.
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If Anderson is out or crocked for our. Summer, easy replacement Darren Steve, swings the duke ball both ways lol
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If Anderson is out or crocked for our. Summer, easy replacement Darren Steve, swings the duke ball both ways lol
'horses for courses' and all that..
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Ok, so he came off vs India..... Just look at the sum total of the rest of his knocks... This constant thread that Curran is/will be some sort of quality Bat is baffling... Stop over rating players before they actually achieve something consistently. He isn't and hasn't ever done well in Country Cricket with the bat!! Let alone Tests..
I'm struggling to see exactly where I've said anything about his quality, so not sure why you feel the need to jump down my throat although looking a lot of your previous posts it seems to be a recurring theme!
I simply said that his batting looks as good as his bowling, which from what I've seen personally it looks pretty good for a relatively young guy.
Cheers.
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Curran has done pretty well since coming into the team, as you point out he is a young player with potential.
I think also having watched him bat his batting could be at the same level as his bowling as he develops, reminds me a bit of Thorpe (his coach at Surrey)
he seems to make things happen and has a good nugget attitude. Lack of pace is there thou....he wouldn't be the first to bowl at 75 mph and be successful thou..its happened before.
add up the bowling, batting and fielding and a competitive streak..he is not a a bad player.
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Curran is an interesting one, he's clearly not quite there at international level but he keeps performing well enough that he's hard to leave out! I do think his bowling's improving but his batting's going backwards though.
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Curran is essentially Bresnan MKII. Will have that beginners luck before fading away.
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Curran is an interesting one, he's clearly not quite there at international level but he keeps performing well enough that he's hard to leave out! I do think his bowling's improving but his batting's going backwards though.
Given his height Edge do you think it’s possible he could gain pace in his bowling? As in a relatively significant amount?
I’m no bowler but I would of thought being a short guy would limit that side of his game
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"Wood is a fine bowler, but can't be trusted," is a very strange statement. Trusted to do what, exactly? If he can't be trusted to bowl, then how can he be a fine bowler?
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Trusted to stay uninjured probably
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I think Sam Curran will have a lengthy and successful international career.
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Trusted to stay uninjured probably
Possibly.
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Given his height Edge do you think it’s possible he could gain pace in his bowling? As in a relatively significant amount?
I’m no bowler but I would of thought being a short guy would limit that side of his game
I doubt he'll ever be full express but it's a rare bowler who can't put on pace with the right technical work - Gough, Woakes for example. Unlikely he'll be able to find the time for that kind of work while playing for England/Surrey/IPL all year round you'd have thought though. I'm sure Sam Curran at 30 will have made significant changes from now, but who knows what kind of player he'll end up being - should be interesting to watch. No all-rounder likes bowling less though!
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The last England 'all-rounder' without a first-class ton to their name may well have been Geoff Miller?
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Curran is essentially Bresnan MKII. Will have that beginners luck before fading away.
Bresnan was a lot better than that. Until he played on through an albow injury and lost his gas as a result, he was a top quality quick.
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Bresnan was a lot better than that. Until he played on through an albow injury and lost his gas as a result, he was a top quality quick.
I was under selling Bresnan granted. He was fantastic in Australia back in 2010-11. Threw away two Test hundreds as well.
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I was under selling Bresnan granted. He was fantastic in Australia back in 2010-11. Threw away two Test hundreds as well.
A couple of ODI hundreds too. Its one of those "what ifs" - what if he had been sensible enough to have surgery when the problem developed, rather than saying "England need me". Peak Bresnan was a rare kind of bowler - the perfect third seamer.
Seperately, on Curran, S - interesting that there are so many criticisms of his batting now (not shocking given the lack of results). This is a by product of bringing him into top level cricket so early - he is not now going to have the quiet time in which to work on his game and develop the skills required to bat longer periods against the red ball.
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Early on in Curran's career (I mean, he's been playing first class-cricket for five years now) the general concensus from the Surrey staff was that he'd eventually be a batting all-rounder rather than bowling; 18 50s is a testament to him being a decent bat, but frustrating he's never tonned up (a few 90s, once got out on 96 and almost had to dragged off the field).
Really depends on what England want to do with him
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Bresnan was a lot better than that. Until he played on through an albow injury and lost his gas as a result, he was a top quality quick.
THis. He was actually very good until said Elbow injury finished him at the top level. At least he didn't quit mid series :)
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A couple of ODI hundreds too. Its one of those "what ifs" - what if he had been sensible enough to have surgery when the problem developed, rather than saying "England need me". Peak Bresnan was a rare kind of bowler - the perfect third seamer.
Seperately, on Curran, S - interesting that there are so many criticisms of his batting now (not shocking given the lack of results). This is a by product of bringing him into top level cricket so early - he is not now going to have the quiet time in which to work on his game and develop the skills required to bat longer periods against the red ball.
There have always been questions about his batting from day one. However, because he had such a good start as per normal England media/fans there have been the calls that he's suddenly some world beater or potential to be a world beater. It isn't fashionable to question this theory as we see on this forum sometimes.. No one likes those to question the status quo.
However... He is a golden arm to be fair to him currently so whilst I wouldn't pick him in a test team.. he deserves to keep his spot as a bowler. His batting has never been anything more than hit or miss hitting that just came off in one series but has failed in every other series (excluding the odd flash that realistically.. anyone (at the pro level) can have)
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Early on in Curran's career (I mean, he's been playing first class-cricket for five years now) the general concensus from the Surrey staff was that he'd eventually be a batting all-rounder rather than bowling; 18 50s is a testament to him being a decent bat, but frustrating he's never tonned up (a few 90s, once got out on 96 and almost had to dragged off the field).
Really depends on what England want to do with him
HE is the only one who can decide what he wants to do. IF he genuinely wants to be Test batsmen then he probably has to learn the Red ball batting mentality/technique style of play and then will need to develop that at county level over a period of time. That will require a significant mind shift and many mnay hours training. Is he willing to do that? Is he willing to potentially miss out on the IPL, Big Bash and maybe even compromise his White ball skills? Sure England will have a say as they obviously have with other players but it does all come down to the player.
We've seen what effect bits and pieces players will have and we've seen what happens (Bairstow, Hales, Roy etc) if we plonk specialist White ball players into the red ball team (and vice versa with Cook in ODI's for example). England really need to decide if they want to go down the specialist route and if they do, they'll need to fund it so keep these players from needing to go to white ball tournaments to earn the big bucks.
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A Test average of 29 at the age of 21 suggests he has the capability to be a pretty decent bat. Don't think anyone is suggesting he will be batting 3 any time soon but the amount of negativity about his batting from some is ridiculous.
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A Test average of 29 at the age of 21 suggests he has the capability to be a pretty decent bat. Don't think anyone is suggesting he will be batting 3 any time soon but the amount of negativity about his batting from some is ridiculous.
The over estimation is also ridiculous though.. that's kinda the issue. 'WE' as England fans wildly over rate players rather than just being able to go with the flow. We ride the very top of the wave with our players for some reason (India do it to tbf)
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We've seen what effect bits and pieces players will have and we've seen what happens (Bairstow, Hales, Roy etc) if we plonk specialist White ball players into the red ball team (and vice versa with Cook in ODI's for example)
Bairstow is not a white ball specialist though! He has an excellent first class record and has succeeded in the past in test cricket. He's had a poor run, probably influenced by his changes to develop his white ball game, but is certainly not a Roy style biffer.
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Bairstow did make a fairly big change to his technique to adapt it to play as a white ball opener. That change has had a negative effect on his red ball batting. Yes, he's shown he can score runs in Test cricket but can he readapt to long form batting and can he manage to do both at once?
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The Telegraph have Wood replacing Anderson as the only change for the 3rd Test.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2020/01/13/england-make-surprise-decision-recall-mark-wood-ahead-jofra/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2020/01/13/england-make-surprise-decision-recall-mark-wood-ahead-jofra/)
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I would say that there is a case for playing both Archer and Wood depending on how the pitch looks on the morning of the game.
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Love me a bit of Woody at full tilt
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Archer isn't fit apparently.
The choice is Wood who hasn't played a match since the world cup final and Woakes.
The pitch is supposed to be a dead one so Wood's extra pace (if it is still there) will be a differentiator.
Massive gamble playing him in my view but absolutely right to protect Archer.
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Gosh, this is going well - Leach appears to be returning home as well. sad for him, but a great opportunity for Bess to put himself forward.
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Gosh, this is going well - Leach appears to be returning home as well. sad for him, but a great opportunity for Bess to put himself forward.
The obvious call I think, they must have been thinking he could be in contention for this test to keep him around this long. Much better to have him recuperating and ready for SL than doing nothing in SA.
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That will be Wood out of the 4th test then, and probably the English summer.
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Collingwood talking up Wood in the press so if Archer is unfit he could now be first choice pick.
sorry for Leach, I think he is the better spinner but we will need 2/3 for SL so he needs to get fit.
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Pretty rotten luck this winter for Leach. Hopefully he recovers soon for his sake and is fit in time for SL. No Rashid, Ali or Leach would make that a very challenging tour
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Bess, Parkinson, Denly, Root in SL. Jesus.
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with Moeen Ali getting a personal visit from Giles pre SA tour, he may just find Giles again on the doorstep for a cuppa.
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I read an article from Atherton saying that Wood was considerably quicker than Archer in the latest net session. I hope they give Wood a game. Woakes for me has been disappointing without the Dukes ball
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https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/28490307/jofra-archer-deserves-support-not-suspicion-elbow-injury-rules-third-test (https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/28490307/jofra-archer-deserves-support-not-suspicion-elbow-injury-rules-third-test)
Interesting article this (I like George Dobell), I don't know if I'm over-simplifying this, but I don't think he's been particularly well captained tbh. He's bowled way too many overs and in a 5 man attack (with 2 x part-time spinners as well) I cannot see why he isn't doing 3-4 ovrf flat out bursts.
Some question his efforts and commitment, but I think he just needs his job clarified and sensible handling - a bowler as captain perhaps?
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If hall were fit and at he top of their game, how about a bowling attack of;
Archer
Wood
Curran
Mo
Stokes
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When Cook stepped down Anderson went for the job and got short shift from the plan which was always to make Root captain, that was a couple of years ago so as Anderson is injured now, could he of done the job for 2-3 years maybe until the point we are at now? I think he could of and see no issue with a bowler as captain. instead we have Root who as most of us have said is not really ideal, mainly as his batting is affected, second because he's just not a good captain-not his fault not everyone can be.
Archer I'm convinced has not been handled well and will be a short form bowler in the future,if you look back we have had precious few genuinely quick bowlers over the years- and they have not had that long bowling genuine pace.
Flintoff
Harmison
Jones
Wood
Archer
Stone.
I do think also a lot depends on the pitches, where are the quick tracks around the world where someone touching 90 mph can really operate?
None in the West Indies
Havnt seen one in South Africa
India no
Pakistan no
Australia? Where is really quick..Perth used to be maybe put that in
England ?'the Oval? Not really any more.
Fast bowlers lot is a tough one, Wood can get it thru but how many games has he played, Stone the same-quick but injuries are round the corner.
I think going forward we may need 6 bowlers...Broad,Anderson,Woakes,Wood,Stokes.....it's an ageing attack and we may have to cover some players in hot conditions abroad.
Archer is good but he won't do a lot of bowling...and maybe he shouldn't be bowling 25 overs a day anyway.
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@FattusCattus have to agree Archer doesn't seem to have been given a consistent, coherent role to play in the English bowling attack. Think we would see a much more effective player if he was used more intelligently.
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Moeen is rubbish and should never play test cricket again. He’s also mentally weak.
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Moeen is rubbish and should never play test cricket again. He’s also mentally weak.
This couldn't be further from the truth.
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Moeen is rubbish and should never play test cricket again. He’s also mentally weak.
Can't agree with that but whatever is thought with Leach not fully fit, Rashid injured shoulder, I probably should but don't even know who Parkinson is:
England will be back to Mo again to twist his arm for the Sril Lanka tour. I think.....he is playing in the Pakistan 2020 league then thou and has signed up.
So the reality is England need him available, England removed his test contract so look at that whatever way you want.
Someone on here the other day said don't worry about our batting look a bit deeper and the bowling has cracks as well.
Whoever that was made a good point.
Far as I can work out the best spinner in County cricket is a South African who plays for Essex.
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Is it possible to block people on this forum so I don't see their posts anymore?
There are 2-3 members on here that are really putting the wind up everyone else and it's getting silly.
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@jamesisapayne click on profile in the black bar.
On the new page there are three tabs above your profile picture. Hover over the middle one "Modify profile" and a drop down menu appears. Hover over "Buddies/Ignore list" the. Click "edit ignore list"
Type the members name into the box on the bottom left hand side of the screen and press add.
Hope this helps, you should enjoy the forum more without seeing my posts! :)
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Ha ha thanks mate - no not you at all ;)
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The reality of bowling at 90mph + on a consistent basis are injuries because of the strain it puts on the body. If England are to be competitive in test cricket away from home, it will need Wood, Archer and Wood to be rotated within a series and managed better within games. The way Root has run Archer into the ground has been rediculous
I am looking forward to seeing Wood back in the side. His spell last year against the WIndies is up there as a fast a spell of bowling anyone has ever delivered for England.
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I am looking forward to seeing Wood back in the side. His spell last year against the WIndies is up there as a fast a spell of bowling anyone has ever delivered for England.
Me too. When he's fit and firing he's certainly great to watch
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This couldn't be further from the truth.
He's a bits and pieces cricketer. Nothing more nothing less.
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He's a bits and pieces cricketer. Nothing more nothing less.
Did this come from Sanjay Manjrekar ;)
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Woody comes in for jimmy
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Woody comes in for jimmy
Big fan of Wood, really hope he comes through this doing well and staying fit.
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We’re Having a bat, a good start if the pitch really is dry spin may come in later
But we need a good score on the board first :)
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Argh! Why do people keep employing Mark Nicholas?
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Crawley has spent the last week working on his pull shot then...
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This is a road, which means we'll be all out for 220 odd
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Doesn't seem to have much pace at the moment. Will get lower and slower over time probably so spin could come into the match in later stages much more than last 2 tests
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Doesn't seem to have much pace at the moment. Will get lower and slower over time probably so spin could come into the match in later stages much more than last 2 tests
I was listening to talksport on the way into work (yuck) and they were saying they expect the pitch to get quicker after lunch!
Not sure how much truth there is in that, but it could go from road to motorway over a session if this is to be believed
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Liking the sound of what Crawley is doing here. Encouraging to hear that both he and Sibley are already working on their technique to adjust to Test level bowling.
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Openers batting out a whole session. Am I dreaming?
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Good bowling and fields from SA so far.
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While this Test still looks finely poised, it must be nice for Root to come in after lunch with 100 runs on the board instead of the usual 30-odd not long into the morning session!
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Promising from Crawley, certainly doesnt look out of place at this level.
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Whilst not completely related, nobody on the entire planet is buying this, right?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOY9TBzWkAALy3s?format=jpg&name=medium)
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I think Prior's body language is saying "I'd rather be holding a dog-poo"!
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Prior is also looking a bit portly!
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They seem pretty friendly on Talksport. I’m warming to their commentary, although they spoil it by wheeling in Mark Nicholas, who would gladly **** himself if he could reach.
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They seem pretty friendly on Talksport. I’m warming to their commentary, although they spoil it by wheeling in Mark Nicholas, who would gladly **** himself if he could reach.
😂
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This is a road, which means we'll be all out for 220 odd
Root to score a 100 then. Flat track specialist
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(https://i.postimg.cc/7YsTWNd7/Smart-Select-20200116-125559-Samsung-Internet.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rK4md58F)
https://twitter.com/KP24/status/1217728156213370880?s=20
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Root to score a 100 then. Flat track specialist
Averages 48 playing half his matches in England.
You might be talking nonsense.
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FIGJAM meets the big cheese.
looks uncomfortable to me on the body language front.
with KP , there always was one common issue, KP himself
terrific player thou and not the only one with an Ego in that dressing room as I think we know. :)
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This has the feeling of the nz tour, batting too slowly on a pancake (based on talk sport)
or is it ragging square and a tough wicket to bat on?
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My predicition is proving to be correct
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This is a road, which means we'll be all out for 220 odd
Looking like guy could be spot on now lol
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The problem with batting without intent to score runs is that you lose a couple of wickets and you don't have many runs on the board despite having occupied the crease.
The way the ball is turning on day 1, both sides would probably have gone for a 2nd spinner if they could change now. Denly's biggest contribution to this match may well be with the ball rather than the bat
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denly, root and bess to spin us to victory. Broad, Wood and Stokes to watch on.
genius selections!!
the batting is a tricky one as their tactic is trying to hold out until the oppo get tired. if you don't, you look silly cause you haven't gone any where or you do and it's test cricket at it's best!
same issue as when they tried to dominate and lost wickets up top and had to rebuild. trying to strike the appropriate balance is a test...
you'd expect England to bat the day and then put pressure on the SA for the next two days and. hopefully making for an exciting end of day 3/ day 4.
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Ollie is such a talented player.
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Ridiculously good to watch. Just hope they don't ruin him by trying to turn him into a 3 or something equally daft.
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Ridiculously good to watch. Just hope they don't ruin him by trying to turn him into a 3 or something equally daft.
Like a wicket keeper? Oh, wait...
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This pope lad could be a bit special.
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Pretty even day for me. Maybe England slightly on top after that partnership.
Draw must be the favorite result on this pitch with no gun spinner on either side
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This is a road, which means we'll be all out for 220 odd
Unless something goes terribly wrong tomorrow I think "220 odd" is safe!
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Ridiculously good to watch. Just hope they don't ruin him by trying to turn him into a 3 or something equally daft.
I hope they do not make him bat at 3. As of right now I see Denly holding on but might not be a bad idea to play Crawley at 3 when Burns is back.
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Long term Crawley at 3 would make a lot of sense. Denly has done a good job but realistically he hasn't scored enough runs to be sure of his place.
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Long term Crawley at 3 would make a lot of sense. Denly has done a good job but realistically he hasn't scored enough runs to be sure of his place.
Denly is doing a good job if not spectacular, I think we should stick with him a bit longer,certainly for SL
yes when Burns is back it may be different, long term a younger player would be ideal.
personally I would like to see denly,burns,sibley,crawley available for 3 positions....
I think Denly has done pretty good
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Not slating Denly by any means, he's done the job he has been asked to do. But looking long term, he's not the answer and equally, he hasn't scored a mountain of runs to nail down his spot in the team.
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Also whilst I have no issue with him celebrating, Rabada doesn't half paint himself as a moron who will never learn
(https://preview.redd.it/4ny95g0dc5b41.jpg?width=1024&auto=webp&s=70aae35b6b3259aa73ab43ddd1f9a50b44199c72)
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rabada has been warned before and cant seem to help himsrelf
really there's no need to get that close to the batsman, if the batter reacts he will be in trouble.
the rules seem biased and more lenient for the bowlers. speaking as a batsman!
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Also whilst I have no issue with him celebrating, Rabada doesn't half paint himself as a moron who will never learn
(https://preview.redd.it/4ny95g0dc5b41.jpg?width=1024&auto=webp&s=70aae35b6b3259aa73ab43ddd1f9a50b44199c72)
Is he constipated?
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(https://i.postimg.cc/7YsTWNd7/Smart-Select-20200116-125559-Samsung-Internet.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rK4md58F)
Prior looks fat.
What is he doing these days? Wasn't he part of the group that antagonized KP ?
I felt really sorry for KP and how his career ended. Some his fault too but he was so good.
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Don't think Prior was ever particularly lean 😂
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If "Prior looks fat" I dread to think what your opinion of a typical English club side would be... :-[
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^ :D
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Not slating Denly by any means, he's done the job he has been asked to do. But looking long term, he's not the answer and equally, he hasn't scored a mountain of runs to nail down his spot in the team.
I think he has another 18 months in him. Not saying he's "my pick"but I think he is well liked within the current set up, and he has never let England down - which, if you look at the recent history of number 3's is a major thing (YJB's three test cameo aside, noone has looked like succeeding int eh slot) - and he brings some useful leg spin to the party, which is not to be sneezed at. Pope would be better kept at six, working slowly up to four, and Crawley is very much a work in progress at the moment.
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I think he has another 18 months in him. Not saying he's "my pick"but I think he is well liked within the current set up, and he has never let England down - which, if you look at the recent history of number 3's is a major thing (YJB's three test cameo aside, noone has looked like succeeding int eh slot) - and he brings some useful leg spin to the party, which is not to be sneezed at. Pope would be better kept at six, working slowly up to four, and Crawley is very much a work in progress at the moment.
Totally agree Denly has this winter and next summer at least I think, Crawley will remain I think until Burns is back to after SL and ideally by that point both Denly and Crawley will have Test tons or decent avg and then we have 4 players worthy of the top 3 batting positions. Pope has batted all his career for Surrey at 5/6 so leave him there as it’s still a specialist batting spot which should Allow for SL Foakes to come in at 7. We look much stronger when Root, Stokes Pope come in at 100+ for 2 150+ for 3 and after 40 odd overs
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Totally agree Denly has this winter and next summer at least I think, Crawley will remain I think until Burns is back to after SL and ideally by that point both Denly and Crawley will have Test tons or decent avg and then we have 4 players worthy of the top 3 batting positions. Pope has batted all his career for Surrey at 5/6 so leave him there as it’s still a specialist batting spot which should Allow for SL Foakes to come in at 7. We look much stronger when Root, Stokes Pope come in at 100+ for 2 150+ for 3 and after 40 odd overs
I don't know if Crawley will play in Sri Lanka - I fancy they will want Jennings rather than two openers with perceived limitations against spin. But I do have to say that he has improved rapidly in the three tests he has played - he looked like he was about to ask the bowlers for autographs in New Zealand, today he batted like he was close to comfortable out there.
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@jamesisapayne click on profile in the black bar.
On the new page there are three tabs above your profile picture. Hover over the middle one "Modify profile" and a drop down menu appears. Hover over "Buddies/Ignore list" the. Click "edit ignore list"
Type the members name into the box on the bottom left hand side of the screen and press add.
Hope this helps, you should enjoy the forum more without seeing my posts! :)
Thank you so much for this, I think I've just blocked the same person as jamesisapayne did! Shame it doesn't also prevent you from seeing their quoted posts but oh well, better than nothing.
Whilst not completely related, nobody on the entire planet is buying this, right?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOY9TBzWkAALy3s?format=jpg&name=medium)
I've slated KP a fair bit but I loved that moment in the (first?) test when Broad took a wicket from a no-ball and KP was absolutely loving it. It cracked me up to hear how giddy he was and how he made zero attempt to hide it.
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So glad that rabada may actually miss out on the final test. How many times is he going to be a total Johnson and get banned before he actually learns to behave.
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Confirmed now. He's a moron who's let his team down
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Confirmed now. He's a moron who's let his team down
This 100%.
Absolutely brainless. I fully support passion and celebration, but do it away from the batsman you tool.
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Shame tbh, I'd rather have watched Rabada play the last test.
Really enjoying the way that after 2019 overseas commentators are clearly terrified of what might happen every time Stokes gets past 30.
Stokes and Pope look a good partnership don't they, pleasing to see a young bat come in to a sensible position rather than people getting shoved in at 3.
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Rabada was charged with "an action that could provoke an aggressive response from a batsperson upon his/her dismissal"
he did. this could have provoked an aggressive response from a batsperson.
his ban isnt for his actions yesterday but for his actions over a 2 year period.
he has been done 3 other times over two years and has a ban for doing the same thing (admittedly with contact with steve smith) before.
He knows he's close to a ban, so restrain yourself
yes its a shame for the fans but there is only Rabada to blame
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Stokesy sending one out onto the main road
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Shame about Rabada but if you're a SA fan you'd be fuming. What an idiotic reason to get yourself banned, if he does the exact same but 5 foot away then nothing is made of it.
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As Rabada has been banned his demerit points will be reset, so he can go back to acting like a tool in South Africa's next series...
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Stokes is absolutely world class, he is by a distance the best all rounder in world cricket across all 3 formats IMO. I don't remember Botham, but I have to say, I think Stokes will end up being a better player
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Superb Ton from stokes, Great patience last night and then aggression but sensible this morning. Come on Pope join in the run fun
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Different gravy
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We really don't deserve Ben Stokes
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The Ginger Duo have completely knocked the wind out the South Africans this morning, their body language is very negative.
Nasser Hussain saying Rabada wasnt in the wrong yesterday, unpopular opinion but I think if Rabada steps two yards away from Root he doesn't get in trouble. He doesn't actually look at Root at all, he's just a bit close. Within the rules it's a demerit point but you have to be careful we don't completely sanitize the game.
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The Ginger Duo have completely knocked the wind out the South Africans this morning, their body language is very negative.
Nasser Hussain saying Rabada wasnt in the wrong yesterday, unpopular opinion but I think if Rabada steps two yards away from Root he doesn't get in trouble. He doesn't actually look at Root at all, he's just a bit close. Within the rules it's a demerit point but you have to be careful we don't completely sanitize the game.
Looking back on his past misbehaving incidents I can see why he's been banned as an accumulation of them, he's an idiot.
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Stokes is absolutely world class, he is by a distance the best all rounder in world cricket across all 3 formats IMO. I don't remember Botham, but I have to say, I think Stokes will end up being a better player
Not sure there's much milage to be gained comparing Stokes and Botham, very different players. Botham was a genuine bowling great who was the leading all time wicket taker when he retired and took a 5fer nearly every 3 games, and also happened to be a really good aggressive batsman. Whereas Stokes is turning himself into a batting phenomenon, but as a bowler he's increasingly bowling only when needed. Both unbelievable players but go about the role quite differently - they could easily play in the same team.
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Can we drop Buttler, please? That was awful.
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Buttler looking totally lost in test match cricket - was the perfect situation for him with the platform set
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I think this could be butlers last test series for a while
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Not sure there's much milage to be gained comparing Stokes and Botham, very different players. Botham was a genuine bowling great who was the leading all time wicket taker when he retired and took a 5fer nearly every 3 games, and also happened to be a really good aggressive batsman. Whereas Stokes is turning himself into a batting phenomenon, but as a bowler he's increasingly bowling only when needed. Both unbelievable players but go about the role quite differently - they could easily play in the same team.
yes shows how good Botham was as his bowling for a long period would get him in the side alone. Stokes looks like he will be a part time bowler or forth seamer maybe..
for what its worth I think Stokes is the better batsman of the two
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I think this could be butlers last test series for a while
As long as they replace him with a proper keeper (Foakes) rather than give the gloves back to Baristow!
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yes shows how good Botham was as his bowling for a long period would get him in the side alone. Stokes looks like he will be a part time bowler or forth seamer maybe..
for what its worth I think Stokes is the better batsman of the two
To be fair to Stokes, he is a good enough bowler that England have picked him to bat 8 before. He's definitely best suited as a fourth seamer though, making him bowl the extra overs needed from a front line bowler would probably reduce his impact, and that's before you think about injuries.
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As long as they replace him with a proper keeper (Foakes) rather than give the gloves back to Baristow!
Think it has to go to the best keeper in form atm, even if it’s a huge left field selection, but Buttler and Bairstow have had move than enough chances now
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Buttler has to be dropped now, he had a great run when he came back into the side but he's not in the same form which got him picked. Foakes is a far superior keeper and more than capable of at least matching Buttler's average with the bat. I'd also back Foakes to bat longer even if he made less runs which could be crucial if the likes of Stokes and Pope need a partner to build an innings with.
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Curran doing a decent job of keeping the runs flowing whilst slowing Pope to work towards that all important first test Ton younger players coming of age this tour maybe??
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England make 400+ for the first time in 2 years
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Buttler has to be dropped now, he had a great run when he came back into the side but he's not in the same form which got him picked. Foakes is a far superior keeper and more than capable of at least matching Buttler's average with the bat. I'd also back Foakes to bat longer even if he made less runs which could be crucial if the likes of Stokes and Pope need a partner to build an innings with.
think England have done right to stick by Butler, but good point about Foakes and anyone batting sown the order, its not just the runs its how they can hang around for others. like Leach for example
Butler was a Smith pick so perhaps has had a bit longer than others, but SL is coming up I think England will now change tack and have a specialist Keeper, What we do in the future thou may be different.
I think myself we are long overdue Faokes playing, don't care what he did for his County last year, in an England shirt hes never let us down
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Curran is doing Buttler's job with the bat. Simple, really.
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Curran is doing Buttler's job with the bat. Simple, really.
What, a quick cameo then get out slogging? Buttler is better than that. Well batted by Curran, but getting out like that is why he's not going to work his way up the order any time soon.
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POPEY LAD
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OLLIE OLLIE POPE, OLLIE POPE, OLLIE OLLIE POOOPE NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
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What, a quick cameo then get out slogging? Buttler is better than that. Well batted by Curran, but getting out like that is why he's not going to work his way up the order any time soon.
Unselfishly upping the scoring rate while allowing his teammate to reach his century at a more measured strike rate ;)
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Unselfishly upping the scoring rate while allowing his teammate to reach his century at a more measured strike rate ;)
No problem with him scoring quickly but the shot he got out with would be disappointing for a clubbie, lazy slog to the man on the longest boundary the ball after he'd hit a good shot for 4.
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Awesome from Pope, Stokes and Curran.
I hope Bess can find his rhythm on this pitch, it offers enough!
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I love that Mark Wood is now doing Jos Buttler's job better than Jos Buttler... :D
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I love that Mark Wood is now doing Jos Buttler's job better than Jos Buttler... :D
stuck together with Elastoplast and Wood starts hitting it into the stands, you couldn't make it up!
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Not the best day for Rabada
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Rabada is the gift that keeps on giving today
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They should've sent Broad out then declared on 500 (or been 499 all out...)
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Well that was fun! buttler missed out!!!
what a smash and grab innings from woody!!
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As long as they replace him with a proper keeper (Foakes) rather than give the gloves back to Baristow!
It would not surprise me if ECB management make Pope the keeper so they can get an extra batsmen :o
Congratulation to Pope for scoring the century.
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Without Anderson and Woakes, we lack accuracy with the new ball.
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Without Anderson and Woakes, we lack accuracy with the new ball.
I'm pretty sure earlier in this thread you said woakes wasn't any good?
Also as good as root was in cape Town not bowling wood ealry on is criminal
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I'm pretty sure earlier in this thread you said woakes wasn't any good?
Also as good as root was in cape Town not bowling wood ealry on is criminal
I get the logic of bowling Curran with the new ball as he swings it a lot at times but this is a poor spell from Curran, SA going at 5 am over here and apart from Bess beating the bat a couple of times look toothless as the moment
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No problem with him scoring quickly but the shot he got out with would be disappointing for a clubbie, lazy slog to the man on the longest boundary the ball after he'd hit a good shot for 4.
Disappointing sure, but context depends on what his instructions were when he was sent out.
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Bonus wicket that for Bess soft way to get out
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Besssssssy lad
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Well that just happened, what a gift for Bess
Hopefully South Africa do an England now!
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I'm pretty sure earlier in this thread you said woakes wasn't any good?
Also as good as root was in cape Town not bowling wood ealry on is criminal
I guess you didn't actually read what I wrote? I said we lack accuracy. Woakes isn't as happy with the Kookaburra as the Duke, but he's considerably more accurate than Curran's pies
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I guess you didn't actually read what I wrote? I said we lack accuracy. Woakes isn't as happy with the Kookaburra as the Duke, but he's considerably more accurate than Curran's pies
no, no, i did read what you put and my statement stands...
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@alexhilly1492 can you stop quoting him please?
I can see the messages when you do that which counters the superb work the block function is doing!
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Will do!
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If accuracy is the only issue then why not bring out any one of 20 county trundlers? Curran offers something different and with a huge total on the board it was worth a go giving him a few overs.
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no, no, i did read what you put and my statement stands...
Good job I don't give a toss what you think than isn't it?
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If accuracy is the only issue then why not bring out any one of 20 county trundlers? Curran offers something different and with a huge total on the board it was worth a go giving him a few overs.
75mph dross gifting easy runs is certainly something different
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to be fair to Root, Curran can swing the ball a bit and if there has been a bit of weather about its worth a try with a new ball
I don't think Root is a good Captain but club/county/international cricket it don't matter you try things and it don't work a lot of the time, that's the lot of making the decisions
easy to criticize with hindsight
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I think he's a poor captain.
Why not open with Curran and Wood for 2 or 3 overs - why does Broad need to open?
(And don't quote his test wicket tally, he is not the force he was when he got most of those wickets - he seems to value parsimony above all else these days).
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Absolute gas from Woody
Bessy!
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I think he's a poor captain.
Why not open with Curran and Wood for 2 or 3 overs - why does Broad need to open?
(And don't quote his test wicket tally, he is not the force he was when he got most of those wickets - he seems to value parsimony above all else these days).
Broad bowled nicely with the new ball
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I know he doesn't take it that often, but has Curran ever bowled a good new ball spell for England? He's definitely been much better breaking partnerships rather than new ball spells.
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Wood you could probably justify giving him a rest after that innings!
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Wood struggles with the new cherry too.
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DOM BESS IS THE NEW JIM LAKER
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Ollie Pope is the new James Taylor!
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^^ Never understated are you two...
This is the situation for Curran I reckon, short spell where it's gone a little flatter and there's a little partnership starting.
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Well so far it’s all 4 to spin rather than Curran Joe Denly maybe rolling his shoulders in Roots eyeline :)
It was turning early in the game but this happens when we get a good first innings score
Pressure in the field and an unlikely target for SA to match
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well bowled Dom Bess!!
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So that's Bess on the plane to Sri Lanka then.
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If Bess can develop a couple more variations he’ll be the number 1 spinner for the next 10 years
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On my International Cricket Captain 2019 game, Bess took 1,291 test wickets and retired aged 41. If he manages anything less in real life I will be truly disappointed.
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^^ Never understated are you two...
This is the situation for Curran I reckon, short spell where it's gone a little flatter and there's a little partnership starting.
Knocked it off Twitter tbh, two good catches though!
Hopefully we get back on and have there second innings a couple down tonight!
Last two tests have been superb by england and given this side a blueprint to follow really impressed
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Watching those slo mos on Sky... How in the hell is Wood still walking?
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Watching those slo mos on Sky... How in the hell is Wood still walking?
Which slow mo's were these mate, I missed most of the day.
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Which slow mo's were these mate, I missed most of the day.
They showed side and front frame by frame shots of his action. The hyper extension of his knee and the strain on his front ankle are gruesome.
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Probably because of the enormous S&C and physio teams England have 😅
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Suddenly this England side are playing test cricket ! Joy to see.. SA are dire as expected though. Well batted Nortje
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Nortje is the new Jack Leach
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South Africa seems like a side that has no direction. du Plessis is clearly at the curtain call, more interested in blaming everything apart from himself. Happy to hype up the de Villiers return and yet calls out Bavuma when he himself is hapless with the bat. Throw in his mediocre Captaincy and he’s not got much going for himself. Philander obviously is retiring but he’s pretty much a hinderance as his bowling hasn’t shown much since the first test.
Bess bowled decently but leach is still the better bowler.
With the dodgy weather around it’s vital to get the follow on.
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Leach is certainly a more proven bowler but Bess looks like he has made big strides recently. Will be interesting if both are selected for the SL tour.
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This whole leach is a better bowler than Bess thing is interesting. I think Bess has a bigger talent than Leach and is a better batter and a gun fielder.
Leach will play in SL, but I think they will stick with Bess for the longer term.
Faf looks shot as skipper, I suspect he will stand down at the end of the series.
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This whole leach is a better bowler than Bess thing is interesting. I think Bess has a bigger talent than Leach and is a better batter and a gun fielder.
Leach will play in SL, but I think they will stick with Bess for the longer term.
Faf looks shot as skipper, I suspect he will stand down at the end of the series.
Bess is a few years time might be the best spinner but as this moment Leach is better. The batting and fielding is irrelevant. Pick the man who’s the best bowler.
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But if Bess and Leach are in equivalent form, Bess' ability with the bat and in the field come into play in selection decisions.
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CARTWHEELED
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Sammmmmmy
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Got to enforce the follow-on with more rain around?
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this is glorious
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England not the only side capable of being utterly brainless with their shot selection apparently, abysmal from SA.
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WOODY! What a peach
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Two awful reviews from Root
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WHAT A CATCH POPEY LAD
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Ollie Pope that was spectacular!
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Awful review from faf
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A JOE ROOT MICHELLE. ITS HAPPENING
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This is truly pathetic from SA. I knew they were bad but they are making England look world class. Still, it’s a good reward for England’s changed mentality.
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Hopefully it encourages England to stick with this approach when it doesn't go this well.
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Rather give England credit than say how poor or not poor SA are.
We got a good first innings for the first time in ages, bowlers have done well and read the pitch as not having pace but taking turn.
Bess looks good and Root and Denly as back up has worked.
I like Butler but I’d we had a specialist keeper in we have the nucleus of a good side, not great but good.
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Rather give England credit than say how poor or not poor SA are.
Same here. For some, England only ever lose because they are a poor side and only ever win because the option are awful
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England have been good but I think anyone reasonable would agree that the Saffers have been poor.
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England have been good but I think anyone reasonable would agree that the Saffers have been poor.
Not unexpected given the talent drain from SA. Could probably make up a better Test XI from Kolpaks and players on the T20 circuit.
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This all seems a bit too easy
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Love this from Maharaj, they're never going to win it so go down swinging.
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Worst SA batting line up ever - the last pair having a bit of fun and out doing the top order.
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Joe Root started the day dreaming of a 5 fer but that didn't quite happen for him.
He did claim a Test bowling record (albeit a joint one).
He has the world record equalled for the most runs in a Test over.
It is now held between 3 players - James Anderson, Robin Peterson & Joe Root.
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right come on, time to give the ball stokes and get this over with! this is daft
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This is so so poor
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They aren't bowling at the stumps.
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Thank goodness Sam Curran can field...
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I can't be the only one a bit gutted that Maharaj didn't get a ton there?
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No Du Plessis in the ODI side, captaincy has been given to de Kock. No Rabada either
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It will be a hard one, but hopefully De Kock will rise for the occasion and gets stuck in...
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I think it's important that the England bowlers get De Kock out early
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I think it's important that the England bowlers get De Kock out early
They could really miss Willey and Wood in the ODI series
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Hopefully Wood and Willey will be bowling heavy balls.
For the sake of a good contest, let's hope it's not a limp showing from De Kock.
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De Kock will go hard from the off
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Briefings to me are that Archer will come in for Wood on Friday.
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Shame for Wood if that's the case, can't say that he did anything wrong and contributed a hell of a lot more with the bat than Jofra has in a long time.
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I wouldn't be a huge surprise if Wood isn't picked in back to back games after being out for a prolonged period. If England are to keep bowlers hitting 90mph + they need to be well managed.
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@SD fair point, although there's maybe also a case to be made that stop-start cricket isn't the best way to manage a fast bowler either.
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@SD fair point, although there's maybe also a case to be made that stop-start cricket isn't the best way to manage a fast bowler either.
I would probably agree with what Nasser had to day here a kit the way Root seems to over bowl his quickest bowlers. It is understandable when you ate searching for wickets that you want your most dangerous bowler in the attack, but that has to be balanced with the diminishing outputs of over bowling them
https://www.wisden.com/series-stories/south-africa-v-england/root-has-to-look-at-the-bigger-picture-hussain-criticises-wood-workload (https://www.wisden.com/series-stories/south-africa-v-england/root-has-to-look-at-the-bigger-picture-hussain-criticises-wood-workload)
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I wouldn't be a huge surprise if Wood isn't picked in back to back games after being out for a prolonged period. If England are to keep bowlers hitting 90mph + they need to be well managed.
Yeah I think you have it. wood bowled well but hasn’t played back to back matches since I can remember so Jofra for him would make sense...
Also think we want to play Bess as he’s done well and if we were to bat well again he could come into the game, plus really going without a spinner I don’t really like anywhere, it’s variety and an option for Root.
Root thou is going to have to wise up quick handling Archer, 90 mph bowlers are rare for us and need protecting in hot conditions.
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That's why it's especially disappointing that Burns is out injured. His experience of captaincy at Surrey would make him a useful sounding board for Root, especially on managing fast bowlers.
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That's why it's especially disappointing that Burns is out injured. His experience of captaincy at Surrey would make him a useful sounding board for Root, especially on managing fast bowlers.
Totally agree, he has had to put in 5 consistent years where others have not just because someone high up ate the MCC coaching manual.
It really should be a guide not the bible for the selectors trying to identify a test player.
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Sounds like they're now going to drop Bess for Archer...
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Sounds like they're now going to drop Bess for Archer...
May seem a bit unfair after Bess just took a 5 wicket haul and set up a great win, but i think its a horses for courses selection as we are lead to believe this is the quickest deck in SA and will be good to see Archer and Wood in the same side. Think Bess has proved he had improved loads since his first crack at test cricket and will certainly be on the plane to SL and Root and also Denny have proved that they are very handy spin options if required, Root certainly seems to be more consistent and can give the quicks a rest.
Also maybe Woods pace will get archer going and it will be great to see two 90mph+ bowlers going for England
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Interesting decision if it is Bess who makes way. Might well be a quick deck but taking no specialist spinner is a brave choice.
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Interesting decision if it is Bess who makes way. Might well be a quick deck but taking no specialist spinner is a brave choice.
Be interesting to see how many tests we've won playing 5 seamers on a horses for courses basis. I suspect it is very few.
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Be interesting to see how many tests we've won playing 5 seamers on a horses for courses basis. I suspect it is very few.
I can't remember details but I feel like it has a history of not working brilliantly...
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Be interesting to see how many tests we've won playing 5 seamers on a horses for courses basis. I suspect it is very few.
Let's see, the last time England did that they lost which was the 1st test of the series.
If England drop Bess they are going to play right into SA's hands. Majority of the SA batters were fine playing fast bowlers but struggled against Bess.
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I can't remember details but I feel like it has a history of not working brilliantly...
Who has it ever worked for?
Even the great West Indies sides had four quick, not five.
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Never understand why teams don't play a spinner, you need the variety at the very least. You never see a team pick an all spin attack even in the subcontintent
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Never understand why teams don't play a spinner, you need the variety at the very least. You never see a team pick an all spin attack even in the subcontintent
England came pretty close last tour in SL and that worked out alright in fairness.
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Never understand why teams don't play a spinner, you need the variety at the very least. You never see a team pick an all spin attack even in the subcontintent
I could understand - not agree with - four seamers and an extra batsman but five seamers always means that one ends up under bowled - the only scenario where all five get overs in their legs is precisely the one where you really need a spinner to dry up an end.
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As has been said the great Windies team usually had 4 quicks and Gomes and Richards, and Harper did a fair amount of bowling.
Apart from the obvious if 4 seamers can’t get 20 wickets 5 is unlikely too- a spinner allows Root to have some attacking close to the bat fielders.
If we do get another 450/500 mistakes happen with close catchers in, I’m not sure either modern batsmen are happy just defending against spin like they used to
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As has been said the great Windies team usually had 4 quicks and Gomes and Richards, and Harper did a fair amount of bowling.
Apart from the obvious if 4 seamers can’t get 20 wickets 5 is unlikely too- a spinner allows Root to have some attacking close to the bat fielders.
If we do get another 450/500 mistakes happen with close catchers in, I’m not sure either modern batsmen are happy just defending against spin like they used to
It's a different mentality required against a spinner bowling accurately. Same reason having a left armer or someone bowling absolute gas is valuable, takes the batsman out of their bubble a bit, then all it takes is one lapse in concentration.
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I could understand - not agree with - four seamers and an extra batsman but five seamers always means that one ends up under bowled - the only scenario where all five get overs in their legs is precisely the one where you really need a spinner to dry up an end.
Exactly the problem I always have with it, if we play 5 seamers then either Stokes won't bowl or Curran will bowl less than 20 overs in the match.
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Don't see any play for the forseeable future
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Looks like Jof has done something in the warm up, apparently upset and getting condolence pats after long chat with team doctor
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I'm gutted for Jofra and England if he can't play. As poor as this may sound though it could be a blessing in disguise that he has done it in the warm up and not the game.
The last thing England would need is to pick him as the strike bowler only for him to break down early in the game.
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The BBC Live Text is saying it looks like 1 change from the last Test.
Chris Woakes in for Dom Bess. Lunacy... :(
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Spot on. look at jimmy in the ashes, what would have been better, 4 overs in or during warm ups.
Root went up to bess after speaking to Jof and Dr, now hearing (Via Twitter) that woakes will play in place of bess/archer
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Lucky the toss has been delayed with all these changes before the game
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Gutted for Jof
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Jof confirmed out, won toss batting first, woakes for bess
Awful for archer however given the recent narrative he doesnt care its good to see how upset he was! lad clearly wants to be involved!
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Ffs why are we picking woakes over bess. Idiots.
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Fitting for faf to lose the toss in probably his last game
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Saffers have five seamers, no spinners either end
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Good old Joel Wilson
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Good old Joel Wilson
Has got one right...
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Has got one right...
Impressive, being a called no-ball as well
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Bet both sides are regretting no spinner already
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Not sure I can process all of these opening partnerships of 50
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These guys are once again looking the part.
Have we really turned a corner?
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These guys are once again looking the part.
Have we really turned a corner?
The selection policy of backing players who either have churned out results or shown real promise in FC matches rather than trying to convert white ball power hitters seems to be having the intended consequences.
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Crawley to rival Denly for the number 3 spot when Burns is back fit?
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Promising for England for this match and the future, proper Test batting
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Crawley is the new Tendulkar.
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Been a decent display with the bat, but this is some incredibly average bowling; feels like a last day of school effort in the field as well...
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Been a decent display with the bat, but this is some incredibly average bowling; feels like a last day of school effort in the field as well...
You can only play against what’s in front of you. Always backed Crawley and yea maybe more than others as I’m a Kent fan and Kent born and breed but one thing for sure is that as he has gone through his 4 test match career so far he is getting better and better and learning more and more. Left really well and put away the bad or over pitched balls and complements Sibley really well. Fingers crossed he goes on nice and big this game and then when Burns is back fit and hopefully he starts the county season well England finally have some real selection issues at the top of the order.
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This is the first time England have reached 100-0 batting first in a Test match since 2009.
It didn't happen for a whole decade! :o
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Very ordinary bowling but how lovely to see test match batting. Loving this approach
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Wow that’s poor
But, 100 balls faced so did a job
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Seems to be one of those dismissals where you dont quite get a strength right and get out, if a batsman start leaving balls in his strength theres issues
that being said im only basing this on the bbc live text
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Seems to be one of those dismissals where you dont quite get a strength right and get out, if a batsman start leaving balls in his strength theres issues
that being said im only basing this on the bbc live text
He moves across to odd stump so opens up this dismissal. He got away with one earlier so it looks like it’s been identified as a potential get him out ball.
Still, he did a job and played the right way so in this case.. forgivable .. as long as it doesn’t keep happening
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He moves across to odd stump so opens up this dismissal. He got away with one earlier so it looks like it’s been identified as a potential get him out ball.
Still, he did a job and played the right way so in this case.. forgivable .. as long as it doesn’t keep happening
fair enough! He seems to be the type to work on that so hopefully it cut out of his game, good start but we need to capitalise on this start now
really pleasing to see proper test match cricket over the past 3 tests from England
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fair enough! He seems to be the type to work on that so hopefully it cut out of his game, good start but we need to capitalise on this start now
really pleasing to see proper test match cricket over the past 3 tests from England
Agreed. He does seem to learn and adapt quickly. I too am loving his seemingly new approach of the England top 6.. not just being all ‘positive’ and ‘brand of Cricket’ crap .. aka white ball
It’s almost like they’ve realised it’s.. you know.. red ball cricket
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Here comes the collapse
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Here comes the collapse
Bugger . Lapse in concentration .. maybe getting a bit ‘in’ so looking to much to play ?? Still, did well again.. saw 100+ balls so as an opener has done 65% of the job. Now to see how 3/4 can do.. in danger of ruining the start if we lose more wickets though
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Not sure what that Denly innings was to be honest
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That’s shambolic from denly. Wafty shots galore.. playing on the up.. then that... WTF was he thinking from ball one. Clueless
That’s the England mentality of the last 5-7 years again...
Now these two have to dig in and bat for 2 sessions. Low risk cricket please
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Stop playing bloody reckless shots !!!! Aaaarrggghh.. normal England is back
Just plod and get in ffs
This attack is dire, judt occupy the crease and the runs will come.. Nope, back to wack Wack mentality
Basiclally 4 down and it’s not even the end of the second session yet !
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This is awful
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So Crawley is one step closer to batting at 3 for the long term then. Interesting.
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Was stokes just caught abusing a fan on tv ?!?!?! Uh oh
Or a fan abusing him ?
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So Crawley is one step closer to batting at 3 for the long term then. Interesting.
That innings alone means I’d drop him for Crawley.. pathetic
Just completely brain dead, zero match or game awareness and totally against what is required from thr top 3
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Was stokes just caught abusing a fan on tv ?!?!?! Uh oh
Or a fan abusing him ?
Bit of both I think!
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Bit of both I think!
Saffa cameramen are on thr ball !!
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Pope showing the way .. leave and wait then pick it off
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Bit of both I think!
Not sure he can be allowed to say that to a paying member.. fine and or ban coming I’d assume ?
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Not sure he can be allowed to say that to a paying member.. fine and or ban coming I’d assume ?
Agreed, feel for him mind, someone just messed up with the cameras and showed it, maybe intentionally but it was a bit of a heat in the moment thing, could say he knows better
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Just listened again..... stokes is also offering him outside the ground
.....
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What did he do/say?
Is this a mountain being made out of a molehill or actually something worth mentioning?
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Four eyed c-word
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Four eyed c-word
Clip? Clop? Clap? Cape? Crow? Corn? Crib? Club?
Am I close? :D
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You're getting there
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Fan clearly said something stokes has reacted.. has it really harmed anyone? no...
Supersport do have a habit for showing things that dont need to be shown, caught the three Aussies cheating mind! oh and stitching bairstow up with the binoculars was funny
I dont see the point in showing stokes mouth off with the volume clearly turned up to hear it, mountain and molehill springs to mind, buttler to philander pointless being shown too.
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I don't think that England will be too disappointed with that score given the pitch and the weather conditions around during the day. Good platform for tomorrow
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I'd be waiting to hear what provoked Stokes before rushing to judgement. I've heard much worse on a Saturday.
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Four eyed c-word
Cross thread comment alert....
Rhymes with the makers of Neons bats?! 😆
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I'd be waiting to hear what provoked Stokes before rushing to judgement. I've heard much worse on a Saturday.
Something about Ed Sheeran, apparently
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Dunno how much more I can wax lyrical about Pope
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He’s quality. I do hope he stays at 6 for a while thou and if Bairstow has to come back in it’s the keeper batsman role-although it should be Foakes
England have got his selection and position dead right.
Butler needs a few for us thou I would think today
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Pope gone
Dragged on ugly dismissal
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Pope gone
Dragged on ugly dismissal
Gutted for him - looked so comfortable!
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Really does look a class act! Was just thinking how good it was to watch root and pope bat together for a decent length of time!
Fingers crossed we can push onto 400 here and Jos can get a few
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He’s quality. I do hope he stays at 6 for a while thou and if Bairstow has to come back in it’s the keeper batsman role-although it should be Foakes
England have got his selection and position dead right.
Butler needs a few for us thou I would think today
Bairstow should be nowhere near the squad, Foakes is the man for Sri Lanka and beyond
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I feel this is a massive innings for Buttler, his position has to be under pressure and he has a great platform here to get in on a great pitch and play a significant knock.
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Root getting a bit loose outside off, nicks off, dropped by du plessis
Joe just needs to settle here played a couple of loose drives around drinks
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Now gone, loose
Need something from lower order (buttler especially) to get to 400 here
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What was that!
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Can't believe we're limping our way to 300
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Can't believe we're limping our way to 300
Haha! That's England!
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Woakes is far too good to bat at 9.
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Woakes is far too good to bat at 9.
Surprised he comes behind Curran tbh, with a batsman still in anyway.
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What on Earth is that from buttler!! Shocking absolutely awful
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I hope that is the end of his test career. Doesn't deserve to be there
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I hope that is the end of his test career. Doesn't deserve to be there
Yep. Can we honestly say that Foakes wouldn't make just as good, if not better, an all round contribution with bat and gloves?
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I hope that is the end of his test career. Doesn't deserve to be there
Agreed. If not Foakes, bring Bairstow back. He is at least redeemable.
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Agreed. If not Foakes, bring Bairstow back. He is at least redeemable.
What would we rather see bowled through vthe gate driving or out to a filthy slog
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This has been a rather tame effort after such a solid start
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I take that back
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This is fun!
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Faf’s lost them plot. Been a while since broad got runs
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Absolutely awful from South Africa but my God it's good fun!
400 UP!!!!!!
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This is absolutely hilarious
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This is the Broad we all wish we saw more often. Come out and just swing hard.
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400 ao!
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Foakes you'd think would have to come in for SL tour. A true specialist glove man is important if we'll be potentially playing 3 spinners. Butler isn't an improvement on Bairstow, who struggled moving up the order but would be better at 7.
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What would we rather see bowled through vthe gate driving or out to a filthy slog
My point was, Bairstow has shown the ability at this level, he just needs technical work and, equally as important, confidence. But if you reduce it to the question you have, he is at least the better keeper of the two.
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Ah that make sense he does at least have some previous if scoring heavily!
Curran looks so much better when it swings!
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Get in there woody!!!
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SA are dire. Falling apart again
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De kock at 5 now.. he will be opening soon 😂
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Innings defeat ? Woeful
Bavuma like Bairstow/Buttler should be dropped and never to return
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Definitely the worst SA side ever. A combined kolpak 11 would hammer them
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anyone know what shoes stokes is wearing? just spiked up trainers?
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I dont think FAF will be interested to play test cricket anymore.
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My point was, Bairstow has shown the ability at this level, he just needs technical work and, equally as important, confidence. But if you reduce it to the question you have, he is at least the better keeper of the two.
I would disagree, I think Butler is a better keeper than Bairstow.
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I love Woody. What a treasure.
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I would disagree, I think Butler is a better keeper than Bairstow.
Interesting viewpoint, be curious what leads you to think that.
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Odd thought. If Bairstow, Buttler and Foakes are all injured, who would we select?
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Got to look at English keepers who keep regularly in county cricket for that, there's not many
Tom Moore's has just been called up to the Lions (he's dogshit though)
Sam Billings has international experience
Ben Cox? I think it is at Worcester wouldn't be the worst shout
A few years ago is have said Al Davies from lancs
But I think we all know it would be Pope
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Who’s gonna land big bad Nortje on a Kolpak? Under two weeks left to snap up the big fella
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Will Root break the test record for most fifties? Tendulkar currently has that with 68, Root has 47
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anyone know what shoes stokes is wearing? just spiked up trainers?
Yes, when batting.
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Got to look at English keepers who keep regularly in county cricket for that, there's not many
Tom Moore's has just been called up to the Lions (he's dogshit though)
Sam Billings has international experience
Ben Cox? I think it is at Worcester wouldn't be the worst shout
A few years ago is have said Al Davies from lancs
But I think we all know it would be Pope
Two hours thinking about it, I'm no nearer. Cox and John Simpson were the two I thought of, though the reserve lad at Surrey (Smith?) looks to have potential.
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Loved listening to Graeme Smith, Shaun Pollack and Michael Atherton all talking about how much of a quality player Chris Woakes is and what he brings to a team. Made me chuckle when I heard it as they obviously know a thing or two about a player, but had visions of senior player and a few others on here shaking their heads and mumbling the word pathetic!
Totally agreed with them - Love watching the guy play, he gives everything he's got, decent bat who can do a much better job than Jos the moment and is a proper medium fast that swings it - I certainly know who's opinion I would trust.
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anyone know what shoes stokes is wearing? just spiked up trainers?
Apologies for going full kit badger but I’m pretty sure it is these - https://www.adidas.co.uk/solecourt-boost-x-parley-shoes/EF2073.html (https://www.adidas.co.uk/solecourt-boost-x-parley-shoes/EF2073.html)
On sale for anyone who has feet on the smaller side. 50% off and then an extra 20% with the code extra20.
Just caught the highlights, Buttler’s dismissal looks like someone who’s already given up their spot in my opinion. Perhaps he knows someone is coming in for Sri Lanka.
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Loved listening to Graeme Smith, Shaun Pollack and Michael Atherton all talking about how much of a quality player Chris Woakes is and what he brings to a team. Made me chuckle when I heard it as they obviously know a thing or two about a player, but had visions of senior player and a few others on here shaking their heads and mumbling the word pathetic!
Totally agreed with them - Love watching the guy play, he gives everything he's got, decent bat who can do a much better job than Jos the moment and is a proper medium fast that swings it - I certainly know who's opinion I would trust.
Woakes is light years ahead of Curran...decent front line bowler and can actually bat rather than just biff
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Adam Rossington?
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Odd thought. If Bairstow, Buttler and Foakes are all injured, who would we select?
This must be one of the biggest 'what ifs' of all time
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I'm so glad we've seen what our young talent can do on this tour, especially given how bleak things were at one point! Pope has been class, but Crawley and Sibley are coming good too.
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Awful review
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What an absolute peach from Woody but that was a stupid single to take for de Kock to be on strike
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Apologies for going full kit badger but I’m pretty sure it is these - https://www.adidas.co.uk/solecourt-boost-x-parley-shoes/EF2073.html (https://www.adidas.co.uk/solecourt-boost-x-parley-shoes/EF2073.html)
On sale for anyone who has feet on the smaller side. 50% off and then an extra 20% with the code extra20.
Just caught the highlights, Buttler’s dismissal looks like someone who’s already given up their spot in my opinion. Perhaps he knows someone is coming in for Sri Lanka.
It was these ones when he’s bowling, but they look very similar, only with a strap?
(https://i.postimg.cc/x1dfgjn6/10-C233-D7-5-E6-C-4070-B93-C-E7-B5-B1-BAE256.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mt0Wgsc9)
6 heel spikes is when I first noticed something different. Plus they appear to be boost too. I’d love a pair of boost bowling boots!
(https://i.postimg.cc/tgZXQr1P/0-D060-F4-C-42-B1-4922-8-DA1-CA1271-CD22-BB.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wtzKDQQT)
Looks like the solecourt is the closest match!
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How good has wood been since he elongated his run up!
5fer in the Caribbean 4 last week 5 this game and his pace is consistent
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How good has wood been since he elongated his run up!
5fer in the Caribbean 4 last week 5 this game and his pace is consistent
TMS had a stat on this, bowling average is about 14.5 since he changed his run up. He'll always have injury issues but that's a seriously useful average.
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I think the run up will help with the injuries too!
He could be a real handful down under
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I'm not bowling expert but regardless of his new run up its the last part of the delivery which the strain goes into, he is not unlike Simon Jones in that respect for me.
I'd like to see Wood, Archer and maybe Broad left at home for the next tour so they are fully rested for the home series.
Wood is going to need to be very well looked after I think, it's great to see him bowling when fully fit.
We need to wise up with these fast bowlers and not expect too much as fans-England are playing virtually all year round, not sure any other test team does the same.
The management need to start making long term decisions for the team
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I would suggest they think very carefull about who they take to Sri Lanka amongst the pace men. Maybe Archer for the experience and his variety, and perhaps Woakes who can dry up runs and add 30 or so good runs, but certainly not Anderson, Broad and Wood. Ideally, I should like to see them take a couple of inexperienced players for the experience - Jamie Overton, perhaps
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And that is the end of Buttler's test career
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Theory - all those using yellow bat grips are using TK made... any takers?
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What is going on? 206-8!
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This is abject, thank God the lead is as big as it is
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Is this bad because we're so far ahead and attacking everything or because it's plain (No Swearing Please)
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That six was hugeeeeeeee
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No no no you cannot do that faf du plessis
What a catch!!!
Hendricks with 5 England all out
No idea what to make of that! 2 days to bowl SA out or 461
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Right tactics from us, yes we lost wickets but enough time to bowl them out
Got to do everything we can to try to win the match, even with a below average SA team away wins are precious
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Interesting viewpoint, be curious what leads you to think that.
Butlers foot movement and the positions he gets into are better. However i accept technical ability doesnt always mean much, more than one way to skin a cat.
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Butlers foot movement and the positions he gets into are better. However i accept technical ability doesnt always mean much, more than one way to skin a cat.
You see I disagree about positions. He shapes to go for balls then pulls out, and is too often coming up too early for the spinners.
Look, neither is a great keeper. I reckon there are eight better than Jonny in the first class game (and that's with me not commenting on four first choices I have not seen live).
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You see I disagree about positions. He shapes to go for balls then pulls out, and is too often coming up too early for the spinners.
Look, neither is a great keeper. I reckon there are eight better than Jonny in the first class game (and that's with me not commenting on four first choices I have not seen live).
I reckon butler and Bairstow are just about in the top 10 glove man in the U.K. but not in the top 8 so you can argue between you who is slightly better but in long format neither are great
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Apologies for going full kit badger but I’m pretty sure it is these - https://www.adidas.co.uk/solecourt-boost-x-parley-shoes/EF2073.html (https://www.adidas.co.uk/solecourt-boost-x-parley-shoes/EF2073.html)
On sale for anyone who has feet on the smaller side. 50% off and then an extra 20% with the code extra20.
Just caught the highlights, Buttler’s dismissal looks like someone who’s already given up their spot in my opinion. Perhaps he knows someone is coming in for Sri Lanka.
He wears the plain white ones spiked up for batting and these with the green trim for bowling https://www.adidas.co.uk/solecourt-shoes/EF2068.html (https://www.adidas.co.uk/solecourt-shoes/EF2068.html)
The strap and extra spikes look like they may have been done by Custom Cricket Shoes?
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Woakes gets the breakthru early this morning
question remains is he any good or just a charlatan
:)
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South Africa are going to win this.
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They're not, but choosing 5 seamers is still looking daft
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South Africa are going to win this.
Dont be daft. Not a hope in hell.. way to poor a side
this game was over first innings when england scored 400+
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England do not deserve Ben Stokes!
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Ed Sheeran you effin beauty
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Will there be an unlikely hero with the ball for England?
With no "proper" spinner Joe Root or Joe Denly could steal the show on this deck, couldn't they?
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I've said it before and I'll say it again...
Joe Root's use of DRS is awful!
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Well, they're making it difficult
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Well, they're making it difficult
4+ sessions and only one batsmen (attacking one at that so won't exactly save the game)... At least they haven't just gifted it away playing shots just yet..
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I would have definitely appealed for handled the ball by now. Leave the sodding ball alone faf.
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Can't beat a bit of handbags
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Ben you absolute beauty
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WOODY
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Jug avoidance?
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That's a shame for SA.. They were actually showing some fight.. Very poor from Faf and then what the hell was VVD doing.. Driving on the up etc.. sigh... Too attacking/.. game over as Bavouma is woeful and De Kock simply won't stop playing shots
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Amazing how the home broadcaster hasn't sown replay after replay of Faf walking into Buttler...
isn't making physical contact with an opposition a level 2 offence?
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But Jos is a bit of a tool, so I think we all know he secretly deserved it...
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Amazing how the home broadcaster hasn't sown replay after replay of Faf walking into Buttler...
isn't making physical contact with an opposition a level 2 offence?
Philander has been pinged hasn't he already so hopefully Faf will be too. No need and no place for it
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Yeh Philander has and so should Faf! i juts find it amusing that supersport dont feel the need to show SA do anything wrong, didn't show philanders send off or this, yes any tiny indiscretion by England is picked up on volume turned up and highlighted
Sky either show everything or nothing at least
however, back to the game, only question now is when we win, this evening or early tomorrow
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Yeh Philander has and so should Faf! i juts find it amusing that supersport dont feel the need to show SA do anything wrong, didn't show philanders send off or this, yes any tiny indiscretion by England is picked up on volume turned up and highlighted
Sky either show everything or nothing at least
however, back to the game, only question now is when we win, this evening or early tomorrow
Sky are only re-broadcasting the home nation Telecast remember. SA tv people are very very good at picking things up but sadly they are as biased as people are on here about their side... It's rare for people to be 'fair' or have a balanced view on things after all. unconcious Bias and all that gumff
That 'only question' has been the case since we passed 400+ first innings. This SA side were never getting it, their only hope was to draw and again, this side hasn't shown the fight to bat for the draw
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Not when we're at home,
the game may basically have been over after both first innings, but at least england are starting to get into these positions
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Absolute snorter from Stuart
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But Jos is a bit of a tool, so I think we all know he secretly deserved it...
This is interesting. Every time I've heard him speak he's come across as a humble, almost shy personality. One of the good guys.
My reading of his sledging Philander was that it was on team orders to try and unsettle him (as keeper he was best placed to have a quiet abusive word). From the replay I thought he looked really embarrassed doing it. Not that this excuses it as a tactic.
What makes you think he's a tool?
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BROADYYYYYYY
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Why.. why is Pretorious hooking!! Show some bloody fight ffs ..What is wrong with these players.. Easy wicket for Broad.
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This is interesting. Every time I've heard him speak he's come across as a humble, almost shy personality. One of the good guys.
My reading of his sledging Philander was that it was on team orders to try and unsettle him (as keeper he was best placed to have a quiet abusive word). From the replay I thought he looked really embarrassed doing it. Not that this excuses it as a tactic.
What makes you think he's a tool?
You mean the comments to Philander were not enough? Amongst the worst things I've heard on a cricket field, and richly deserving of a band in my opinion. And he has plenty of previous for the odd word I in the ear!
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You mean the comments to Philander were not enough? Amongst the worst things I've heard on a cricket field, and richly deserving of a band in my opinion. And he has plenty of previous for the odd word I in the ear!
Right, but as I say, I think that was team orders rather than Buttler just being a knob.
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Right, but as I say, I think that was team orders rather than Buttler just being a knob.
If it was - and you must have special knowledge if that is the case because I've not heard it anywhere else - I doubt those orders would have specified the nature of the sledging, because what the delightful Mr Buttler came up with was just vile personal abuse.
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So to clarify, you're allowed to abuse someone if you're under instruction to do so?
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So to clarify, you're allowed to abuse someone if you're under instruction to do so?
this... Just because someone says 'go be a £$£$£$£$£$£$£' doesn't mean you have to or even should.
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Amongst the worst things I've heard on a cricket field
Really?!
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Really?!
Sadly it's not the worst but that's because people seem to think abuse on the sports field is acceptable and a showing of 'competitiveness'.. Just shut up and play cricket, zero need for any verbals.
SA not even showing any fight, this is dire test cricket really.. No competitiveness in this game what so ever. 6 balls in and Nortje is reverse sweeping!! WTF... TEST CRICKET fella.. not white ball
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End of Big Vern's Test career. Real inspiration to all cricketers from the underprivileged areas of Cape Town. A career he can be proud of. I think he would have really wanted to add a test hundred to his record considering he is quite capable with the bat.
Go well Big Vern.
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If it was - and you must have special knowledge if that is the case because I've not heard it anywhere else - I doubt those orders would have specified the nature of the sledging, because what the delightful Mr Buttler came up with was just vile personal abuse.
Well I said "I think" not "I know for certain", but it certainly seemed deliberately staged and strategically intended - and it worked: Phillander went all angry and starey and 2 minutes later got out.
Lets be honest, most sledging at the professional level is premeditated. This wasn't Buttler losing his temper and lashing out, this was Buttler deliberately trying to wind big Vince up and get him to do something rash.
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So to clarify, you're allowed to abuse someone if you're under instruction to do so?
No, it just means that its equally the captain's/vice-captain's fault for planning and sanctioning it, rather than the act of a lone wolf losing his temper. Buttler doesn't strike me as the type of guy just to suddenly lose his rag. Stokes, maybe, but Buttler always comes across and very calm and collected.
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No 10fer for Woody :(
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And that's the end of that.
Well bowled Mark Wood, well played England.
Get the hit & giggle out the way and roll on Sri Lanka!
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Well I said "I think" not "I know for certain", but it certainly seemed deliberately staged and strategically intended - and it worked: Phillander went all angry and starey and 2 minutes later got out.
He must've been so proud that it "worked". I think if I needed to stoop that low to get a glorified tail ender out, I'd retire.
I'm not against a bit of sledging - but it should be banter, and should steer clear of swearing and personal insults. Most do. Few stoop as low as Buttler did. And as far as I am concerned, its on him, not on someone else who may or may not have been involved.
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I'm not against a bit of sledging - but it should be banter
What counts as Banter?? Does everyone have to find it 'amusing' or just the ones sledging?
Anyway, Buttler got a ticking off.. whether it should be harsher or not is a different question. Same with Rabada, Phillander and now Faf. The fact we are having so many incidents shows that it's deep rooted in the game and turning a blind eye isn't the answer.. neither are weak punishments as they are obviously not working.
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What counts as Banter?? Does everyone have to find it 'amusing' or just the ones sledging?
As a basic answer, I would say there are obvious no-nos - vulgar language, personal insults, bringing anything from off the field into it.
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This whole "banter" business is utter nonsense! Shut the hell up and play the game quietly!
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This whole "banter" business is utter nonsense! Shut the hell up and play the game quietly!
Banter is great fun. However, when you're playing sport sadly What one team think is 'Banter' just isn't to the opposition. Hence why there is such a problem as there is no 'line'. The 'line' is sadly a moving thing based on what each person thinks is acceptable. What is banter to one is abuse to another.
Hence the problem.
Still, Buttler is probably done in Test cricket so hopefully it's a mute point on him. Just hope Foakes gets in and keeps his mouth shut.
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Congratulation to England for winning the series.
For me the find of the series is Nortje. Carried the SA bowling load and when asked to bat as night watchmen he did an outstanding job, even better than the SA top order bats.
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This whole "banter" business is utter nonsense! Shut the hell up and play the game quietly!
I bet you're great fun in the field for 50 overs... ;)
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Congratulation to England for winning the series.
For me the find of the series is Nortje. Carried the SA bowling load and when asked to bat as night watchmen he did an outstanding job, even better than the SA top order bats.
I don’t know if anyone else thinks this, but whenever SA manage to unearth a decent player, my immediate thought is to wonder which county will sign them as a Kolpak. SA cricket is in such a sorry state, and I really hope having the likes of Boucher and Kallis in the set-up will help to improve matters, as international cricket needs a strong SA team.
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I bet you're great fun in the field for 50 overs... ;)
Cricket game itself is so much fun why do you want to spout nonsense?
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However, when you're playing sport sadly What one team think is 'Banter' just isn't to the opposition. Hence why there is such a problem as there is no 'line'. The 'line' is sadly a moving thing based on what each person thinks is acceptable. What is banter to one is abuse to another.
Hence the problem.
Exactly. You are basically making my point.
You don't know the state of mind of the opposition and how they will interpret AND react to your "funny" behavior.
As long as you are not a mind reader, keep your trap closed.
On a more "logistical" note, where I play, there is no centralized (state level) support for cricket. All it would take is one bad incident and it will make headlines. People get hot tempered very quickly and things in the past have escalated.
A good, tight game played with a lot of skill, doesn't require demeaning your opposition or even your team mates. This "banter" business is plain unnecessary when game is good.
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Cricket game itself is so much fun why do you want to spout nonsense?
This may be a controversial opinion, but fielding can be really boring...
I'd much rather have some banter with my team mates and/or the oppo than "shut the hell up and play the game quietly".
One of the games I enjoyed most last season was one where we shipped 384-1, not because of the cricket itself but because the bloke who carried his bat for 179* was a right laugh!
At the end of the day I'm paying to play, I'd much rather enjoy my day and have a laugh than stand in silence for 3 and a half hours...
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I bet you're great fun in the field for 50 overs... ;)
You don’t need banter at, too or about the oppo to have fun. Surely abusing the oppo shows you can’t have fun without gobbing off ?
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I don’t know if anyone else thinks this, but whenever SA manage to unearth a decent player, my immediate thought is to wonder which county will sign them as a Kolpak. SA cricket is in such a sorry state, and I really hope having the likes of Boucher and Kallis in the set-up will help to improve matters, as international cricket needs a strong SA team.
Yep, same thought has gone through my mind also. I remember reading couple of weeks back that Smith had assured Pretorius about his involvement when he was thinking about Kolpak.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/28387481/dwaine-pretorius-commits-future-south-africa-amid-kolpak-temptation (https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/28387481/dwaine-pretorius-commits-future-south-africa-amid-kolpak-temptation)
https://www.sacricketmag.com/smith-reportedly-dissuaded-pretorius-from-going-kolpak/ (https://www.sacricketmag.com/smith-reportedly-dissuaded-pretorius-from-going-kolpak/)
The disappointment from SA team was Philander. Getting 8 wickets in 7 innings is poor for a guy who is the senior most bowler in the team.
Here is the team most likely to show up in WI for SA in July.
Elgar, Malan, Van Der Dussen, Du Plessis (last series before retirement or he could just say screw it and go Kolpak before Jan. 31st deadline), Bavuma (C), De Kock, Andile Phehlukwayo, Ngidi, Maharaj, Rabada, Nortje (I think the team is still one short of the transformation target)
Does SA have an opening batsmen that could replace Elgar/Malan that could help with quota?
Since SA did not meet all the quota requirements they are going to stack the deck against WI. If Du Plessis is not selected/retires/goes Kolpak route, he will be replaced by Hamza/Petersen in the lineup with the other been extra batsmen and that will help meet the target.
Spare batsmen - Hamza, Petersen, Markram
Spare bowler - Second, Hendricks, Paterson
Spare Allrounder - Pretorius
My personal opinion is that quota systems suck at the highest level, but what do I know.
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You don’t need banter at, too or about the oppo to have fun. Surely abusing the oppo shows you can’t have fun without gobbing off ?
Who said anything about abusing the oppo?
If you interpret having a laugh with your teammates and/or the oppo as "abuse" then I'm glad I don't have to play in the same team as you...
For the record I will talk to the batsmen every game, if they reciprocate then great we'll have a chat and a laugh. if they aren't interested in speaking then I'll keep quiet. It's quite simple really, don't be a knobhead and speak to people decently. You end up having a much better time than standing in silence for hours on end. Try it, you may even end up making some friends!
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Who said anything about abusing the oppo?
If you interpret having a laugh with your teammates and/or the oppo as "abuse" then I'm glad I don't have to play in the same team as you...
For the record I will talk to the batsmen every game, if they reciprocate then great we'll have a chat and a laugh. if they aren't interested in speaking then I'll keep quiet. It's quite simple really, don't be a knobhead and speak to people decently. You end up having a much better time than standing in silence for hours on end. Try it, you may even end up making some friends!
If you try and engage and keep quite (at, to or about them) if they don’t then that’s exactly how it should be. Some people do like chat so it’s good to see.. if they don’t engage then leave them alone. That way sledges are happy and non sledgers are happy.. win win
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Who said anything about abusing the oppo?
If you interpret having a laugh with your teammates and/or the oppo as "abuse" then I'm glad I don't have to play in the same team as you...
For the record I will talk to the batsmen every game, if they reciprocate then great we'll have a chat and a laugh. if they aren't interested in speaking then I'll keep quiet. It's quite simple really, don't be a knobhead and speak to people decently. You end up having a much better time than standing in silence for hours on end. Try it, you may even end up making some friends!
This is exactly how I go about my Saturday cricket too, funnily enough its enjoyable!!! I don't give abuse or get it back.
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Yep, same thought has gone through my mind also. I remember reading couple of weeks back that Smith had assured Pretorius about his involvement when he was thinking about Kolpak.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/28387481/dwaine-pretorius-commits-future-south-africa-amid-kolpak-temptation (https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/28387481/dwaine-pretorius-commits-future-south-africa-amid-kolpak-temptation)
https://www.sacricketmag.com/smith-reportedly-dissuaded-pretorius-from-going-kolpak/ (https://www.sacricketmag.com/smith-reportedly-dissuaded-pretorius-from-going-kolpak/)
The disappointment from SA team was Philander. Getting 8 wickets in 7 innings is poor for a guy who is the senior most bowler in the team.
Here is the team most likely to show up in WI for SA in July.
Elgar, Malan, Van Der Dussen, Du Plessis (last series before retirement or he could just say screw it and go Kolpak before Jan. 31st deadline), Bavuma (C), De Kock, Andile Phehlukwayo, Ngidi, Maharaj, Rabada, Nortje (I think the team is still one short of the transformation target)
Does SA have an opening batsmen that could replace Elgar/Malan that could help with quota?
Since SA did not meet all the quota requirements they are going to stack the deck against WI. If Du Plessis is not selected/retires/goes Kolpak route, he will be replaced by Hamza/Petersen in the lineup with the other been extra batsmen and that will help meet the target.
Spare batsmen - Hamza, Petersen, Markram
Spare bowler - Second, Hendricks, Paterson
Spare Allrounder - Pretorius
My personal opinion is that quota systems suck at the highest level, but what do I know.
All good points. Except that Rudi Second is a batsman/keeper. Played against him a few years ago and he smashed us to bits
I would imagine that Nortje has already had people in touch regarding a kolpak deal! De Kock and Du plessis have already improved their income with a few years on the t20circuit but for long format only players the mediocrity of County Championship pays better than Test Cricket! Dark days for SA
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Cricket without banter/good natured sledging is painfully dull. Some people take it too far, and any decent captain will step in and tell them to shut up.
Personally I love it when the bowler, keeper or slips dish it out. It doesn’t affect me at all, but it certainly makes the feeling a lot sweeter when I crash them to all parts and then give some back. It’s amazing how some of the more vocal gladly dish it out, but absolutely hate it when you return fire.
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All good points. Except that Rudi Second is a batsman/keeper. Played against him a few years ago and he smashed us to bits
I would imagine that Nortje has already had people in touch regarding a kolpak deal! De Kock and Du plessis have already improved their income with a few years on the t20circuit but for long format only players the mediocrity of County Championship pays better than Test Cricket! Dark days for SA
I guess I misread Rudi Second profile on Cricinfo. Who would be inline as backup role to Maharaj? I hope to god it’s not Piedt or are the cupboard bare for spinners also.
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From memory Shamsi was the 2nd spinner last time they toured in Asia. Left arm wristspinner, which is always interesting to watch.
The captain of the U19s is also a spin bowling all rounder but might be a bit early for him
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This whole "banter" business is utter nonsense! Shut the hell up and play the game quietly!
Agree.
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I wonder if there is a relationship between fondness for 'banter' and amount of money spent on cricket bats?
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Can't believe some people really think Jos Butler staged or deliberately engaged in targeted sledging antics. This is why watching highlight packages is dangerous to start forming opinions, as you don't see the whole lead up and battle.
In Cape Town, Philander obstructed Jos from retrieving the ball cleanly when it was being thrown in from the field. Jos told him to get out the way and to move, Philander then tried staring him out, Stokes then chirps up saying "Don't stare him out, he's got a point mate". You then see the incident which got reported and Jos fined, which I agree with.
Then yesterday Faf does exactly the same thing, maybe to try and wind Jos up again? Someone then calls Faf an "idiot", which I think was Broad but Faf may have thought it'd come from Jos. So Faf turns to Jos saying "don't call me that" and gives him a gentle shoulder barge/nudge. In the interest of fairness over the Test Series, I hope Faf also gets a match fee fine.
The long and short of it though; there was no pre-meditated sledging in those aired instances! It was just heat of the moment stuff, when playing a competitive game at the highest and toughest level.
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It was just heat of the moment stuff, when playing a competitive game at the highest and toughest level.
Part of the 'battle' is maintaining your cool, composure and professionalism. 'Losing your head' should be punished because that's part of the skillset you're looking for.. Someone who can stay cool when under pressure etc etc... It's easy to be a hot head after all.. Very hard to be cool, calm and collected when it matters.
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Yes, which is why I also mentioned that I agreed with the fine and why I'd also welcome Faf picking one up. The whole tit for tat debacle has just rumbled on throughout the series.
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Yes, which is why I also mentioned that I agreed with the fine and why I'd also welcome Faf picking one up. The whole tit for tat debacle has just rumbled on throughout the series.
Yet it keeps happening because the punishments aren't putting these players off doing it. Hence the need to harsher punishments to 'adjust' player behaviour. They won't change on their own after all
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It's a nice ideology to have. A game where cricket does the talking and not the mouth, but we don't live in an ideal world. At least there’s a mechanism in place at international level, to deal with those situations. Me personally, I'd like to see more league level cricket sledging/abuse reduced, as some people struggle to see where the line is.
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It's a nice ideology to have. A game where cricket does the talking and not the mouth, but we don't live in an ideal world. At least there’s a mechanism in place at international level, to deal with those situations. Me personally, I'd like to see more league level cricket sledging/abuse reduced, as some people struggle to see where the line is.
Of course people will lose their heads.. Hence why you punish it though. That way, there are severe enough consequences that you all but erradicate it in all but hte most hot head of hots heads, who in turn will spend most of their time banned.
Obviously it's such a different game at the pro level as there is actually Pressure unlike Amateur level BUT.. little Jimmy see's <insert player name> Sledge/COmment/Abuse and then copies them on a Saturday. IT's the weekend warriors who need the protection, not the pro's in reality but they need to make the stand at the pro level to demonstrate it isn't wanted/required.
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It's a nice ideology to have. A game where cricket does the talking and not the mouth, but we don't live in an ideal world. At least there’s a mechanism in place at international level, to deal with those situations. Me personally, I'd like to see more league level cricket sledging/abuse reduced, as some people struggle to see where the line is.
Yes, I can understand why it happens (sometimes) in professional cricket. Bur some of the stuff that goes on in recreational cricket is plain embarrassing.
I believe, and hope, there will be a law ammendment soon.
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Showers are a good place for banter.
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Showers are a good place for banter.
they certainly used to be your right. unfortunaltly in League cricket certainly in Middlesex no one stays for a post match beer, and believe it or not most teams leave without showering
its disgusting and you can store it up for sledging in the return matches, 'send down the piano see if he can play that and pass the soap too'
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In a 4th XI game:
Me (non- striking bat, to opposition captain): A well- intentioned, non-hostile, "have a word with the young lad appealing for lbw from square leg".
Opposition captain: "If you don't like the game, you know what you can do."
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they certainly used to be your right. unfortunaltly in League cricket certainly in Middlesex no one stays for a post match beer, and believe it or not most teams leave without showering
its disgusting and you can store it up for sledging in the return matches, 'send down the piano see if he can play that and pass the soap too'
Yes. The two trends are almost certainly not unrelated.
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The Guardian are running with Denly being dropped and Bairstow being recalled to bat 3 in SL. Amazing.
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The Guardian are running with Denly being dropped and Bairstow being recalled to bat 3 in SL. Amazing.
Genius Ed Smith earning his salary again if true. Not only has Bairstow done precisely sod all to warrant a recall, but he’ll actually be promoted to what’s arguably the most important position in the entire batting line-up (sorry openers).
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What a weak call. Genuinely pathetic if true.
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The Guardian are running with Denly being dropped and Bairstow being recalled to bat 3 in SL. Amazing.
Oh no...and the Guardian seem always to be right.
Really hope that’s not true, but I fear it is. With the emergence of Sibley Crawley and pope it basically rightly(in my view) shut out Bairstow....
And looks like they are sticking with Butler with the gloves, so the only way to shoe horn him in is Denlys place.
At number 3 is have Denly Seven days a week and twice on Sunday over Bairstow-he has no technique for tests
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The Guardian are running with Denly being dropped and Bairstow being recalled to bat 3 in SL. Amazing.
[/quote
England strike again.. bairstow is turd and shouldn’t have a red ball contract let alone be in the squad or team.. especially not in tbt top six and as wk not above foakes
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Just as they finally start to play test crixket and you can start (if Buttler, bairstow and Curran are removed) get behind the team they go and destroy all the good will in one go. Sigh
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Just as they finally start to play test crixket and you can start (if Buttler, bairstow and Curran are removed) get behind the team they go and destroy all the good will in one go. Sigh
Certainly looks like we have the basis of a good side, Archer to come back and maybe Woakes if fit will play more, the batsmen are getting used to test cricket...
Personally I like Butler, but a choice between him and Foakes I’d have Foakes....
If they are giving Butler more time then fair enough, he may have a good tour of SL if he is first pick.
Bairstow I cannot fathom out at all as a supporter, he’s had his chance in tests and got found out, he is never a number 3
You got to ask sometimes are there favourites? He is close to Root, does that sway opinion?
For me the best thing about this current tour is the young batsmen doing well, I also think Denly has done ok myself.
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Denly averages 30 in 14 Tests, and has yet to score a hundred. People has been cast aside for similar, or less?
It would make sense to take him to Sri Lanka, though, because he can double up as a reserve opener? Otherwise, who else? Jennings?
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Even Gary Ballance still averages 37 in Tests! (I just checked.)
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I wonder what Dawid Malan averaged - I didn't think he was that bad and didn't get as much of a run as some others
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Oh - 28. That's a shame
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Denly is doing a good enough job at 3 to keep his place. He’s certainly not doing badly enough to be replaced by Bairstow, which would be the ultimate insult for any top order batsman.
Ed Genius Smith seems to be obsessed by “names”, and will try to crowbar the likes of Bairstow, Roy and Buttler in to every side regardless of whether they are suited to the format of cricket or not. The Bairstow ship (IMO) has sailed. He changed his game to be a success at the hit n giggle stuff, and it’s resulted in serious flaws in his technique whenever anyone decides to bowl at his stumps. Smith’s selections remind me of the Ericsson and Capello eras of the England football team, where you were selected on who you are, and not what you are. I really hope he gets the chop this summer as he absolutely infuriates me.
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Even Gary Ballance still averages 37 in Tests! (I just checked.)
It would be interesting to see what he averaged in, say, his first 5 tests, and then what he averaged subsequently. I think his overall average for England will still be benefitting from a very fast start.
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Denly averages 30 in 14 Tests, and has yet to score a hundred. People has been cast aside for similar, or less?
It would make sense to take him to Sri Lanka, though, because he can double up as a reserve opener? Otherwise, who else? Jennings?
Not really, he may be more valuable as a bit of leg spin with Root bowling some offies, plus Bess and Leach if fit, so we are covered for spin if Moeen does not tour, even if he does we need a few spinners to choose from.
It's simple from my armchair, Burns is out we need a number 3....if there is a really good option or a potential young player fine take him instead.
Couldn't give you 1 name who that could be but Bairstow as a specialist batsman when he's done nothing to be recalled makes no sense.
I think for whatever reason he's been told he will fit back into the team. There's no logic I can see.
Does anyone in the forum actually think YJB should come back in as a top order batter? Please step forward.
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Think it would be a real shame for Denly to be dropped for Bairstow. I really hope they have got this one wrong because although he hasn’t set the world alight he has been steady and contributed to almost every game he has been part of. Spent a long time trying to find a number 3 why got back to what we’ve already seen before.
Bairstow hasn’t been performing in tests for a long time now and when he did he wanted to bat down at 7.
I’d really leave Roy, Bairstow & Buttler to the one day stuff for England and bring in a reserve keeper
Although saying all of this I could see Denly perhaps being dropped when Burns is back fit in the summer if Crawley & Sibley are performing and one of them taking the number 3 spot.
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I like Bairstow but only if we're not picking Foakes as keeper, as I'd have him at 7 over Butler. Picking him ahead of Denly would be harsh to say the least on Denly, who's done well in a transitional period.
The only thing I could see working against him is how he seemed to get tied down against spin at times in SA. Although there's no obvious replacement, so he keeps his place for me.
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Stuart Broad now fined a match fee percentage along with another demerit point added.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/28581796/stuart-broad-handed-demerit-point-faf-du-plessis-altercation (https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/28581796/stuart-broad-handed-demerit-point-faf-du-plessis-altercation)
Looks like Faf got away with his conduct, which I really disagree with!
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I meant Denly can bat 3 or open, so should go, even if only as a reserve.
(Erm, Burns has never batted 3?)
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Very odd selection if they do do that (though how the Grauniad knows the XI two months out...).
Jonny shouldn't be written off. There is a reasonable argument that if they won't pick Foakes he should replace Buttler. But having had no red ball cricket to rebuild his technique, a return to 3 does not make sense. Nor for that matter does dropping a batsman who is not outright failing and happens to bring a half way decent leg spin option.
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So England win 3 tests on the Bounce on the back of a solid platform of being 100+ for 2 for when Root, Stokes, Pope etc come in. But now there is talk of a walking wicket coming in when we could be 10-1 and Root Stokes etc are then back to batting at 25-2 or what ever.
Now as is clear I am a massive Kent fan a huge fan of Crawley and Denly but how in the world can Bairstow come in and replace a guy that’s done a decent job against Australia, West Indies, New Zealand and now SA. His avg is only 30odd same as all the others but his avg is not Boosted by easy runs against the weaker nations and he plays proper red ball cricket not to mention his spin option. I know he hasn’t got the magic 3 figure score but I’d rather have 1 Denly at 3 than 5 YJB’s at 3 given the fact he game back for one test, scored bigger all and was as usually bowled through the gate.
Yes Denly maybe got tied down by spin and SL could be a struggle but surly he had earned the change to be given a chance
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So England win 3 tests on the Bounce on the back of a solid platform of being 100+ for 2 for when Root, Stokes, Pope etc come in. But now there is talk of a walking wicket coming in when we could be 10-1 and Root Stokes etc are then back to batting at 25-2 or what ever.
Now as is clear I am a massive Kent fan a huge fan of Crawley and Denly but how in the world can Bairstow come in and replace a guy that’s done a decent job against Australia, West Indies, New Zealand and now SA. His avg is only 30odd same as all the others but his avg is not Boosted by easy runs against the weaker nations and he plays proper red ball cricket not to mention his spin option. I know he hasn’t got the magic 3 figure score but I’d rather have 1 Denly at 3 than 5 YJB’s at 3 given the fact he game back for one test, scored bigger all and was as usually bowled through the gate.
Yes Denly maybe got tied down by spin and SL could be a struggle but surly he had earned the change to be given a chance
Think we're all agreed about him being dropped, if that is the case. Not sure anyone is saying Bairstow at 3 (nor even Bairstow tbh! 😆), but I'd have him ahead of Butler at 7 if Foakes isn't getting the gig for SL, which he should imo.
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I don't think Denly could complain too hard about being dropped (even though it would seem daft considering it's a subcontinental tour next), but unless someone really is struggling you normally drop a batsman because you can replace them with a better option!
Bairstow got dropped, hasn't played any first class to press for a recall and had an absolute shocker of a match in the first test of this series. Should have been sent off to get an overseas gig this winter instead if they want him back in the test side. Would have liked to see Liam Livingstone in the conversation for SL given his previous Lions form there but his selection chances seem to have receded.
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I don't think Denly could complain too hard about being dropped (even though it would seem daft considering it's a subcontinental tour next), but unless someone really is struggling you normally drop a batsman because you can replace them with a better option!
Bairstow got dropped, hasn't played any first class to press for a recall and had an absolute shocker of a match in the first test of this series. Should have been sent off to get an overseas gig this winter instead if they want him back in the test side. Would have liked to see Liam Livingstone in the conversation for SL given his previous Lions form there but his selection chances seem to have receded.
Livingstone had an absolute shocker in the two T20 matches he played for England, and that seems to have made Ed Genius Smith put a big black mark against his name in all forms for the full side. I must admit that at the time I thought he looked more out of his depth than any England batsman I had ever seen before, but players can improve, and you also can’t discount the role nerves play for some people.
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I'm going to start by saying I don't think bairstow should have been picked,
That being said, it is a tour to Sri Lanka, spin will be a big factor,
We have two unproven openers in these conditions in Sibley and Crawley, I think Sibley may struggle personally.
Then to have denly at 3 who has shown he isn't very good against spin would be a huge risk
Having bairstow back is at least someone who has previously done well in these conditions (whilst being crap against the seamers), so it isn't as daft as most people are making out.
I totally agree that he has done nothing to earn it but it still makes some sense to me. I also think Jennings should tour as back up too and won't be overly surprised if he's at 3 for the second game coz Johnny doesn't score anything
Come the summer Crawley will be at 3 behind Sibley and Burns anyway
It's who takes the gloves is a key factor
Anyway back to the south Africa series, when do the Odis start?
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Can't believe some people really think Jos Butler staged or deliberately engaged in targeted sledging antics. This is why watching highlight packages is dangerous to start forming opinions, as you don't see the whole lead up and battle.
In Cape Town, Philander obstructed Jos from retrieving the ball cleanly when it was being thrown in from the field. Jos told him to get out the way and to move, Philander then tried staring him out, Stokes then chirps up saying "Don't stare him out, he's got a point mate". You then see the incident which got reported and Jos fined, which I agree with.
Then yesterday Faf does exactly the same thing, maybe to try and wind Jos up again? Someone then calls Faf an "idiot", which I think was Broad but Faf may have thought it'd come from Jos. So Faf turns to Jos saying "don't call me that" and gives him a gentle shoulder barge/nudge. In the interest of fairness over the Test Series, I hope Faf also gets a match fee fine.
The long and short of it though; there was no pre-meditated sledging in those aired instances! It was just heat of the moment stuff, when playing a competitive game at the highest and toughest level.
I must say that this was also my take on the whole incident. Philander was being a bit of a tool blocking the keepers view of the ball coming in, and the keeper let him know he wasn't happy about it. It seems crazy to me to be handing out penalties for non-incidents such as this.
The whole.demerit point system seems to me to be a hammer to crack a nut that doesn't exist. I would much rather the ICC for a grip on over rates and the amount of time it takes to restart the game after a break from rain or bad light. Those are the things that affect me as a paying spectator
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I must say that this was also my take on the whole incident. Philander was being a bit of a tool blocking the keepers view of the ball coming in, and the keeper let him know he wasn't happy about it. It seems crazy to me to be handing out penalties for non-incidents such as this.
The whole.demerit point system seems to me to be a hammer to crack a nut that doesn't exist. I would much rather the ICC for a grip on over rates and the amount of time it takes to restart the game after a break from rain or bad light. Those are the things that affect me as a paying spectator
Or...
Umpires could you know.. do their job.. Stamp out verbals AND stamp out Over rates etc.. They don't HAVE to let them change gloves 10 times.. They don't HAVE to let them have drinks in non drinks breaks... They could call the capt over as soon as they see/hear any verbals and say 'stop it or I'll take action'... It would clean the game up AND give teh paying public better value.. as well as make the game better of course .
You can do it all very very easily.. they just don't want to
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Or...
Umpires could you know.. do their job.. Stamp out verbals AND stamp out Over rates etc.. They don't HAVE to let them change gloves 10 times.. They don't HAVE to let them have drinks in non drinks breaks... They could call the capt over as soon as they see/hear any verbals and say 'stop it or I'll take action'... It would clean the game up AND give teh paying public better value.. as well as make the game better of course .
You can do it all very very easily.. they just don't want to
Agree entirely with speeding the game up although probably didn't need ellipses and randomly capitalised words.
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Jofra out of t20s with elbow soreness
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Jofra out of t20s with elbow soreness
not a bad thing. Hopefully Wood is pulled from the White Ball series as well.
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Bairstow scored a ton in the latest warm up match for the ODI series. That pretty much guarantees Edward Genius Smith will select him to bat at 3 in the test series in Ceylon.
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I must admit that at the time I thought he looked more out of his depth than any England batsman I had ever seen before, but players can improve, and you also can’t discount the role nerves play for some people.
To be fair, coming in 18/20ths of the innings done for a specialist top order bat whose better formats are longer is not the easiest of gigs...
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Bairstow scored a ton in the latest warm up match for the ODI series. That pretty much guarantees Edward Genius Smith will select him to bat at 3 in the test series in Ceylon.
You may be right, but news Moeen is coming back to test cricket might make things less clear for Bairstow.
Despite poor form recently Mo has been seen as a consistent run scorer in the lower order
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It will be interesting to see how Mo goes now he has had a break.
Before cricket became so commercialised players used to have a winter off relatively frequently.
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Basically moeen is happy to play against Sri Lanka as they are rubbish. We should bin this clown as next winter India will battering him for fun.
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Basically moeen is happy to play against Sri Lanka as they are rubbish. We should bin this clown as next winter India will battering him for fun.
Poor form, lack of confidence, happens to the the best players. He has played well against India in the past and his stats overall are pretty good.
England are no where near good enough to disgard him from the test side, most fans want him to be available for us.
But your view is your own and your entitled to it. It's a free Country. :)
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Basically moeen is happy to play against Sri Lanka as they are rubbish. We should bin this clown as next winter India will battering him for fun.
We? You dont sound like an England fan to me
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Basically moeen is happy to play against Sri Lanka as they are rubbish. We should bin this clown as next winter India will battering him for fun.
Have you watched ‘The Edge’ yet?
Gives you a true insight to the mental strains of test cricket on some of our greatest players.
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Poor form, lack of confidence, happens to the the best players. He has played well against India in the past and his stats overall are pretty good.
England are no where near good enough to disgard him from the test side, most fans want him to be available for us.
But your view is your own and your entitled to it. It's a free Country. :)
moeen averages 65 in India so that's hardly worthy of a place in the squad next winter let alone a place in the playing xi.
moeen made himself unavailable so it's on him to earn a recall.
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We? You dont sound like an England fan to me
We have perfectly decent English spinners such as Leach and Bess.
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We have perfectly decent English spinners such as Leach and Bess.
Both talented. Neither as good as Moeen in white ball cricket.
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We have perfectly decent English spinners such as Leach and Bess.
?? What is an English spinner? Moeen is British.
Are you on this forum solely to wind up others? I think you have lost the plot.
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We have perfectly decent English spinners such as Leach and Bess.
Think you and one or two others only make comment to get a reaction and must enjoy a keyboard argument.
Ali when fit and he has been mentally unwell so unfit is England’s best spinner, based on experience at test level and is a very handy lower order test batsmen. Every true England fan wants Ali in the side if fit
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Basically moeen is happy to play against Sri Lanka as they are rubbish. We should bin this clown as next winter India will battering him for fun.
Not many people left in the game with the Geoffrey Boycott attitude to mental health issues.
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We have perfectly decent English spinners such as Leach and Bess.
Agree this was worded very poorly, but I think he 2qs saying 2 other spinners capable of playing for England, don't think he was questioning whether moeen was British or English etc.
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Funny how the forum mods are happy to censor people calling out sexism but not doing anything about these moronic views.
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Funny how the forum mods are happy to censor people calling out sexism but not doing anything about these moronic views.
whether there moronic or not, people have views and a right to speak them.
that the joy of this forum not everyone agrees and we can have nice healthy debates, it is a shame that some people are adamant that they're correct and wont accept anyone else views. you cant censor that
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Sorry I missed the casual racism as I assumed Moeen was English.
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whether there moronic or not, people have views and a right to speak them.
that the joy of this forum not everyone agrees and we can have nice healthy debates, it is a shame that some people are adamant that they're correct and wont accept anyone else views. you cant censor that
I think it would be entirely fair to censor racist views but the comment being referred to was, IMO, poorly worded rather than deliberately bigoted.
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I think it would be entirely fair to censor racist views but the comment being referred to was, IMO, poorly worded rather than deliberately bigoted.
as would i, and i agree badly worded.
Any way back to the topic in hand, Moeen ideally will play in Sri Lanka however i dont think he will tour.
best thing for him imo is go back to Worcester and take bucket loads of wickets
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Moeen will tour Sri Lanka, if selected and we know Joe Root wants him on the tour.
What I would say is he should start third in line (with Dom Bess as first in line)
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Given Bess' form, I'd have to agree he's the man in possession as it stands. Hopefully Leach can get back to fitness as well, was outstanding in SL last time.
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My order of preference would be Bess, Moeen, then Leach.
Bess can contain and take wickets, Moeen can take lots of wickets, and when bowling well can contain. Leach, well he doesn’t take many wickets and doesn’t seem able to contain. He certainly can’t be selected because he batted ok once or twice in his career.
The chap I go and see for batting coaching has spent some time with Moeen, and he says his issues with both bat and ball aren’t technical. It’s all in the head. He needs to feel some love and feel that he’s trusted by the team. Sadly, neither Root or Sir Chef provided this on a regular basis.
When Moeen is performing, he would be 3rd name on the team sheet for me for test matches (behind the skipper and Sir Ben Stokes).
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disagree actually, Moeen is a very interesting player, unusually honest, clearly hurt but the loss of his test contract(you could argue this either way), and has not done much to slot straight back in to the team since losing his place, by his own admission in a rut of poor form and loss of confidence.
Bess has come in and done well, as has Leach.Root can bowl a bit of spin as can Denly
I think what England want is him straight back in, will they take him on tour as the third spinner? is there any guilt they handled they situation badly...if that's what they did?
im going to throw this out there just for discussion
I was off work with an operation for three months, my Company stopped paying me.I have no complaint but would you expect your Company to pay you?
what im saying is should England of covered Moeens contract when he was not playing?, he made himself available but he has said himself it was burn out....
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Managing players' mental health should be treated exactly the same as managing a physical injury. If Moeen broke his hand nobody would question him taking time out to recover. A mental health issue shouldn't be treated any differently, especially not in cricket where mentality is a huge part of success.
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My order of preference would be Bess, Moeen, then Leach.
Bess can contain and take wickets, Moeen can take lots of wickets, and when bowling well can contain. Leach, well he doesn’t take many wickets and doesn’t seem able to contain. He certainly can’t be selected because he batted ok once or twice in his career.
Leach was a bit off form in his most recent couple of test matches but you obviously haven't been watching him bowl - Moeen isn't fit to do Leach's boots up as a spinner. Bess made the breakthrough of running through a side that Leach hasn't quite managed yet, but Leach is obviously capable of that in time, he's shown a lot for Somerset. Let's play look at the stats...
Leach - avg 29.02 econ 2.85 sr 60.9
Moeen - avg 36.59 econ 3.62 sr 60.6
And for context:
Nathan Lyon - avg 31.58 econ 3.0 sr 62.9
Rangana Herath - avg 28.07 econ 2.84 sr 60
Ravi Jadeja - avg 24.64 econ 2.43 sr 60.7
Moeen's figures are superb for an all-rounder but way below par for a specialist - he'll obviously play in subcontinental conditions as he's very capable of batting in the top 6 there, but as sole spinner Leach and Bess are (unsurprisingly) better options. Wouldn't be surprised if all three played in SL on a turner.
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that's what I was intimating at. Im not sure whether Mo should be in as first choice with the emergence of Bess and Leach, but Moeens role in the team has always been a grey shade, he has scored a lot of valuable runs for us from number 8
not convinced myself at all England removing his test contract was the right thing to do, not everyone is the same, some players need managing differently to others..
a 'retainer' perhaps in hindsight may of been an idea while he was unavaiable
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Leach was a bit off form in his most recent couple of test matches but you obviously haven't been watching him bowl - Moeen isn't fit to do Leach's boots up as a spinner. Bess made the breakthrough of running through a side that Leach hasn't quite managed yet, but Leach is obviously capable of that in time, he's shown a lot for Somerset. Let's play look at the stats...
Leach - avg 29.02 econ 2.85 sr 60.9
Moeen - avg 36.59 econ 3.62 sr 60.6
And for context:
Nathan Lyon - avg 31.58 econ 3.0 sr 62.9
Rangana Herath - avg 28.07 econ 2.84 sr 60
Ravi Jadeja - avg 24.64 econ 2.43 sr 60.7
Moeen's figures are superb for an all-rounder but way below par for a specialist - he'll obviously play in subcontinental conditions as he's very capable of batting in the top 6 there, but as sole spinner Leach and Bess are (unsurprisingly) better options. Wouldn't be surprised if all three played in SL on a turner.
Moeen has been off form for far longer, and his bowling average has likely suffered as a result.
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Moeen has been off form for far longer, and his bowling average has likely suffered as a result.
Moeen's test bowling average wasn't any good in the first place. In first class it's nearly 38!
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With Ali selected along with Leach and Bess, youd likely be looking at 5 soon options with the ball, which even in SL is overkill. Denly and Root can comfortably fill the void of Ali not being picked, then pick a specialist batsmen better than Ali, which shouldnt be too hard
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Just a heads up my prior post wasn't meant to say moeen isn't English. I didn't check before I posted. Fair to say I've been marked down as the next nick griffin...
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With Ali selected along with Leach and Bess, youd likely be looking at 5 soon options with the ball, which even in SL is overkill. Denly and Root can comfortably fill the void of Ali not being picked, then pick a specialist batsmen better than Ali, which shouldnt be too hard
But... In those conditions, with no danger from the short ball, I wonder if Ali qualifies as a specialist bat? If perhaps having a top three all questionable against spin might be too much?
Ali instead of Denly?
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Is Ali that great against spin though? Lyon’s had him wrapped round his little finger for the last 2 ashes series
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But... In those conditions, with no danger from the short ball, I wonder if Ali qualifies as a specialist bat? If perhaps having a top three all questionable against spin might be too much?
Ali instead of Denly?
I don't think the pitches are going to be anything like what we saw last tour. Yes of course they will turn but I am not sure they will be 3 specialist spinner tracks etc...
I think if Denly is to be dropped because of his inadequacy against spin, then is it more likely to be Jennings that replaces him at 3?? Plus there is the Bairstow specialist batsman at 3 option also.
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Bairstow at 3, nope nope nope.
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Bairstow at 3, nope nope nope.
Gamblers choice..... it is going to most likely be between Denly, Bairstow and Jennings for THIS tour in Sri Lanka.
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Not a bad start here, Roy <3
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Two very poor dismissals, when will they learn
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eurgh
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Oh Jesus Christ
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Oh dear
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Joe Denly's pads are the wrong shade of blue. Village.
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At least Bairstow wasn’t bowled. Every cloud etc...
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Banton seems to use a bat with a surprisingly small profile. The edges look tiny.
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Not a bad start here, Roy <3
I blame Rick for the England batting collapse.
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I blame Edward Genius Smith. Coz everything’s his fault.
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Well played from Denly, sounds like 250-270 will be a decent score in fairness
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It's times like this I really miss Senior!
#DropWoakes :(
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This has been an outstanding opening spell from Woakesy
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Missing plunkett, rashid and Ali in the middle overs
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Parkinson certainly nowhere near Rashids level yet. Not too untidy just a little predictable today.
Also looks to have the arm of a 50yo club player!
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The discarding of Plunkett by the selectors and captain leaves such a bitter taste in the mouth; there really aren't many better middle over bowlers out there...
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Been outclassed by SA in the batting department today
Good knocks by De Kock and perhaps more surprisingly Bavuma
Out of interest does anyone know what type of bat Bavuma uses. I mean seeing as he stands about 5’4, does he a use a smaller bat, in size and in weight?
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Plunkett and Rashid did a good job for us in those middle and end overs, spin it both ways and some of the hitters are not quite so confident.
They played a big part in is winning the World Cup, not sure if Rashid is fit or not but yes agree Plunkett was discarded too soon in my book.
Big hand for forum favourite Woakes with some great figures up front,in the end thou, nowhere near enough from us.
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How was De Kock's captaincy?
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Has denly just switched to Gray Nicolls from the match photos? I thought he used SF usually?
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He was using sf on Tuesday
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Out of interest does anyone know what type of bat Bavuma uses. I mean seeing as he stands about 5’4, does he a use a smaller bat, in size and in weight?
Regarding size, my 13yo is larger than him and has just started using a Harrow so my guess is length-wise he is a size 6. Not sure how chunky he could go on size 6 with respect to weight? My son's 6 was just under 2-7 which was heavy for a 6. It is possible that he has a full-width blade that may up the mass a bit for a 'man' without making it too thick (which would affect balance and pickup?). Was with Kooks but I think he was playing with a NB in this match (iirc). Not sure if either of them would do custom easily (consdiering he is in SA) ... or if it is a custom just stickered? Either way the 2 sixes he hammered does make one question the fixation with size (of man and bat).
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Archer is out of the rest of the tour plus Sri Lanka and the IPL with a stress fracture of his elbow.
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Archer is out of the rest of the tour plus Sri Lanka and the IPL with a stress fracture of his elbow.
That's an unusual stress fracture! Sad for Jofra but possibly not the worst from an England point of view.
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The ECB Sport Science & Medicine department need to have a look at their working practices. That's two incidents of stress fractures within the team, what with Andersons recent rib injury. I know they conducted a study into lumber stress fractures after Olly Stone and its prevalence in top level cricket. We can’t afford to lose good fast bowlers, to these types of injuries.
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Simple answer is don't bowl the bloke into the ground; since he's been in the England setup nobody's bowled as much as him, 400 odd overs
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So 7 test matches into his career and Jofra is broken.
I hope he comes back stronger but I have a feeling this could fast track his route to becoming a "white ball specialist".
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On another note how sexy does this kit look
(https://i.imgur.com/oOatTWq.jpg?1)
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That's awful, I know it's for charity but that's dire
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On another note how sexy does this kit look
(https://i.imgur.com/oOatTWq.jpg?1)
(https://i.giphy.com/media/NUZ5OqHdbknHa/200.webp)
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If we have pink trousers it will look good.
I suspect we will have navy ones. Shame we stopped using the powder blue trousers
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Won the toss, bowling, unchanged side
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Reduced overs to 45 last time I checked.
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As a Surrey member, I love Sam, I really do, but is there anything he can do that the last left arm seamer i.e Willey can't?
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Being bantered by Joe Root in the powerplay. Ahahahahahaha.
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Been a fantastic bowling effort from Tom and Mahmood, excellent delivery for the wicket as well
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Woakes should be playing today ahead of one of our spinners in my view. Odd selection.
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What’s going on here, becoming a farce
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How ridiculous ...
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Didn't realise you get two reviews now
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Technically RvD didn’t review it or even signal for one.
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Glorious, review that one
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What on earth kind of shot was that!
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Technically RvD didn’t review it or even signal for one.
He did on the boundary after the 4th umpire spoke to him.
Should he have been given the option though? Just because snicko wasn't available for Bavuma's dismissal they got to keep it. He hadn't hit it anyway (if he had then he'd have received straight away.)
DRS is just as bad as VAR!
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He did on the boundary after the 4th umpire spoke to him.
Should he have been given the option though? Just because snicko wasn't available for Bavuma's dismissal they got to keep it. He hadn't hit it anyway (if he had then he'd have received straight away.)
DRS is just as bad as VAR!
It did however allow the correct decision to be made so it’s not a bad thing. It would be good if they just automatically reviewed everything and then we’d get rid of all mistakes
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Beautiful leggie
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Game over and it’s only 30 overs out of 100 played. Most likely to be a dull game now sadly
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Game over and it’s only 30 overs out of 100 played. Most likely to be a dull game now sadly
if they get to 250, shamsi’s going to be a handful on here
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Another review they shouldn't have had...
This pink england kit is growing on me!
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Independent cricket shops were tweeting their frustration at NB on Friday as they only have allocated any stock of the pink kit to pro-direct apparently which is completed sold out now.
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Woakes should be playing today ahead of one of our spinners in my view. Odd selection.
What would I know.
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And with that over Bairstow's bagged himself a flight to Sri Lanka
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Is this site legit? https://www.lovellcricket.co.uk/Cricket-Polo-Shirts/New-Balance/England-ODI-S-or-S-Replica-Shirt-Pink-or-Blue/398766 (https://www.lovellcricket.co.uk/Cricket-Polo-Shirts/New-Balance/England-ODI-S-or-S-Replica-Shirt-Pink-or-Blue/398766)
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Is this site legit? https://www.lovellcricket.co.uk/Cricket-Polo-Shirts/New-Balance/England-ODI-S-or-S-Replica-Shirt-Pink-or-Blue/398766 (https://www.lovellcricket.co.uk/Cricket-Polo-Shirts/New-Balance/England-ODI-S-or-S-Replica-Shirt-Pink-or-Blue/398766)
Yes, they have Lovell rugby and football too.
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Is this site legit? https://www.lovellcricket.co.uk/Cricket-Polo-Shirts/New-Balance/England-ODI-S-or-S-Replica-Shirt-Pink-or-Blue/398766 (https://www.lovellcricket.co.uk/Cricket-Polo-Shirts/New-Balance/England-ODI-S-or-S-Replica-Shirt-Pink-or-Blue/398766)
They're nice, but they're not £65 nice...
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Making a bit of a meal of this run chase aren’t we
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Classic England this
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This last 20 runs has been terrible
50/50 game?
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Game over and it’s only 30 overs out of 100 played. Most likely to be a dull game now sadly
Yeah proper dull game
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Jesus that was anything but simple!
Always good when they go to the wire and not over too early!
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Yeah proper dull game
Yeah England didn’t literally make a meal of it or anything 🤦♂️
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Yeah England didn’t literally make a meal of it or anything 🤦♂️
But it wasn't dull was it!!!!
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Good article by Mark Wood on the BBC sport website today where he talks a little about the bat he smashed a few with in the test series.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/51451887 (https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/51451887)
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Time for some hit and giggle...
Eng line up probably
Roy
Buttler
Bairstow
Morgan
Stokes
Banton Denly
Moeen
Curran t
Wood
Jordan
Rashid
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Banton's gone home Buzz! Which is bizarre, I know.
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I feel bad for Malan, but eff me that is a brutal top 3
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No Dawid Malan and 7 genuine bowling options
Not sure about the balance of this side but I guess it's strong on paper
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Banton's gone home Buzz! Which is bizarre, I know.
I can't believe I missed that. Well done Ed.
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Dawid Malan hit 100 last time out and then rested and now dropped? on appearance because he didnt run a bye off the last ball of his 100 innings?
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Dawid Malan hit 100 last time out and then rested and now dropped? on appearance because he didnt run a bye off the last ball of his 100 innings?
To be fair that is a stinky attitude.
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To be fair that is a stinky attitude.
From Malan for not running, or Morgan for dropping him for something so trivial?
Personality clashes aside, shouldn't England be picking their strongest side?
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Not sure what Wood is up to...
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Least wood knows how to apologise for bowling beamers unlike archer
Wood very lucky to still be bowling - second one was above the waist too
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this ground looks tiny
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Has to be the worst review ever
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Poor bowling, poor review, poor fielding.
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So Morgan has seemingly dropped Malan for not running a bye in New Zealand.
I presume he'll be booking flights home for some of the side after their effort in the Power Play
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When can we all start agreeing that the Curran brothers aren’t good enough for International cricket?
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Clawed this back very well in fairness
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SA look 20-30 short with the short boundary and breeze
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What is wrong with the colour of Morgan's pads?
They're worse than Denly's
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At least Bairstow wasn’t bowled.
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moeen was excellent with the ball. might need him with the bat here
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moeen was excellent with the ball. might need him with the bat here
Fear not. Sir Ben Stokes will see us through to victory.
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Fear not. Sir Ben Stokes will see us through to victory.
I'll turn it off now then... :(
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Making a right meal of this
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moeen has got this
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OH CAPTAIN MY CAPTAIN
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No ball.
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Stupid shot from Curran
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FFS Curran.
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What have you done moeen
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Absolutely stupid from the tail, and sending both Jordan and Rashid ahead of Wood is criminal
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No Wood? I'd have put him in for the last ball. He's got form of buffing it. Go balls out the bath
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Moeen is rubbish. Take his contract away in all formats
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sending butler opening doesn't work imo. hes needed at the end. Cut denly out the squad and use Malan as the opener. That or use moeen as a pinch hitter.
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That was gifted to South Africa. Gifted.
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That was actually embarrassing! 7 off 7 and still the game plan is to try and smash the ball out the park! braindead.
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I know sometimes players look better when they are not playing but I think Malan is pretty unlucky not to be playing in this team
Thought he was unlucky with the test side too
Maybe he’s just ‘unlucky’
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2 things automatically sprung to my mind after tonight...
1. Something just isn't right between Morgan and Malan for him not to be playing.
2. Are we really going to open up with Buttler in the World Cup? Surely tonight showed that we have a number of people who could open but very very few who can keep a cool head at the death.
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Moeen is rubbish. Take his contract away in all formats
I wish the admins would take away your forum membership instead.
His bowling was great, the batters in front of him should have finished the job.
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Needed Billings to finish the job. Really pleased to see Moeen back though.
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Buttler opening makes no sense. Aside from it being insanity to seperate Roy and Bairstow, Buttler is a specialist at hitting 360 which is more important after the Powerplay.
If Malan is not going to play, Stokes should bat three as a burlier version of the Root role, Jos 4, Bainton 5 and Morgan 6.
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Banton has never had success outside the top 3 in limited over cricket AFAIK, why would bringing him in at 5 be sensible?
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Banton has never had success outside the top 3 in limited over cricket AFAIK, why would bringing him in at 5 be sensible?
Well, I think we all agree that the other five named are shoe ins. Roy and Bairstow obviously open, and I wanted Stokes to have a few balls to play himself in. I wanted someone who can hit 360 degrees, and hence went to Banton over Malan - doubtless unlucky - and Billings, who has the shots, but has been too frantic in the past.
In truth, we're unlikely to select a specialist bat who is batting five or 6 in the format for their county. Vince, Hales, Lyth, TKC, Banton, Clarke, Livingstone and Pope all bat top 3 or 4.
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The best t20 team is a bit of a pain to pick I think, Roy Buttler Morgan Stokes Moeen Rashid Archer would be my definites, possibly Jordan also. Realistically with the surfeit of openers I think Buttler drops back down to middle order and two from Banton/Bairstow/Malan play. Difficult choice that! Then it's extra seamer (probably Wood) vs finishing batsman (Denly/Billings/Livingstone) for the last spot. Have to say I don't much fancy Denly in the role he's currently playing, Livingstone probably the most likely bolter but it's been a while since he's batted there either.
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Roy Malan bairstow Morgan top 4
Buttler and Stokes float
Banton spare batter in squad
Mo at 7
Jordan and archer two seamers
Rash also plays
Wood and Mahmood in the squad as well as a spinner (probably Parkinson although I'm not convinced by him)
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Buttler opening makes no sense. Aside from it being insanity to seperate Roy and Bairstow, Buttler is a specialist at hitting 360 which is more important after the Powerplay.
If Malan is not going to play, Stokes should bat three as a burlier version of the Root role, Jos 4, Bainton 5 and Morgan 6.
Buttlers averaged 47 since opening the batting in the past 2 IPL’s? And similar when he moved up to open in the big bash.....
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Bizarre decision to change a WC winning combo. Sounds like silverwood’s trying to make an impact. If it ain’t broke why fix it?
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Dawid Malan has scored five T20 hundreds, more than any player in the England squad.
He has scored three T20 centuries in the last 12 months.
Can someone explain why the only one in the squad with a T20I hundred, who averages 57 at a strike rate of 155 is being left out for Joe Denly, a man who averages less than 11 at a strike rate of 98
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Another successful knock for Buttler at the top of the order too.
Morgan claimed they'd play their strongest side each game of this series, I'm not seeing much evidence of this so far...
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Dawid Malan has scored five T20 hundreds, more than any player in the England squad.
He has scored three T20 centuries in the last 12 months.
Can someone explain why the only one in the squad with a T20I hundred, who averages 57 at a strike rate of 155 is being left out for Joe Denly, a man who averages less than 11 at a strike rate of 98
I think the view is Malan isn't really a team player. He didn't run on the last ball of his unbeaten hundred knock I think it was, and he's been quite outspoken (rightly or wrongly) about his non-selection. FWIW I'd have him in for Denly myself too.
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Sorry if this has been covered, but why is Banton in the ODI squads but not the T20I?
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Just to add my thoughts, my preferred team would look something like this
Roy
Banton
Bairstow
Morgan
Stokes
Buttler
Moeen
T Curran
Jordan
Rashid
Wood
I'd be pushing Morgan down the order if we get off to a good start, and attempting to shoe-horn Moeen in when/if spin comes on, perhaps to compliment the lesser players of spin. Truth is we are absolutely spoilt with batting talent in the white ball form. I'd be happy with any of the top 7 at the crease at almost any time really, all have the potential to go massive. If Moeen can improve even more with the ball (I'd bowl him as we did last game, in the PP), Stokes being your 6th bowler is a seriously strong option.
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2 flash in the pan innings again need to get a score on the track
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Buttlers averaged 47 since opening the batting in the past 2 IPL’s? And similar when he moved up to open in the big bash.....
Butlers record opening isnt the issue here. Its the hole it leaves in the middle/lower middle order. Denly has no business batting there
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Please make that the end of Denly in T20s for England
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Why is he even in this team, it just doesn't make sense
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Please make that the end of Denly in T20s for England
If it's not, we know for definite he's got something over the selectors
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What does Denly offer to this side !?
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought his domestic T20 record was good and he got into the England T20 squad way before the test one.
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He last played a T20 what, 11 years ago before 2018?
I think this situation shows why Buttler should be at #6; I understand the logic of him opening, but Barstow and Roy was hardly a broken thing that needed fixing; no better finisher in this team than Jos
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Wonderful striking from Sir Moeen Ali. Isn’t it great to have him back in an England shirt? Hopefully he’ll be back in all three forms before long.
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I always love watching Mo.
Freeflowing with the bat and tidy with the ball.
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Lovely Mo
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Moeen is rubbish. Take his contract away in all formats
🤔
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Now surely they can defend 204 against this very top heavy SA batting line up
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Decent total that didn't look like it was going to happen, largely due to Moeen.
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De Kock is world class in this format but England’s bowling is poor again, so short to often
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Thank God they got him there. QDK was looking to chase that down in 15
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This is outstanding from wood
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And cj
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Not so outstanding 🤦♂️
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Why is Curran bowling
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Stokes has a point there de kock can't signal from the dressing room can he!?!?!
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For those who don't have Sky. There are T20 highlights on Youtube:
1st Match
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UeuRVlWqQk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UeuRVlWqQk)
2nd Match
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBbGiyVIrX4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBbGiyVIrX4)
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Buttler opening again, dunno why. Hope we get to see Malan and one of the younger bowlers like Parkinson involved, would be good to see how they handle a series decider
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Not sure why we've suddenly decided Butler should open. I'd go with Bairstow and Roy, with Buttler to come in later depending on the situation.
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Butler maybe better as a floater down a bit with Morgan and stokes
Bairstow and Roy are a good combination up front if we get a good start Butler can play with more freedom which I think he needs.
Some players are just best suited down a bit no matter how devastating they can be
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Denly unwell Malan bats at 4 Morgan Stokes slide down one place
Already looks stronger batting line up
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Denly unwell Malan bats at 4 Morgan Stokes slide down one place
Already looks stronger batting line up
Stronger and more sensible. Morgan is a good finisher and England aren't blessed with a huge number of those.
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Just remember that Denly was being picked because the world t20 is in India and they want the extra spin option
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Just remember that Denly was being picked because the world t20 is in India and they want the extra spin option
Doesn't Malan bowl leggies? ;)
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Is 240 about par here today?
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Looks that way! Chasing plenty!!!
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Is this going to be the first ever 300 run chase? Bowling like dummies. Jesus.
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Has anyone else noticed Bavuma has put the stickers on the wrong edge of his bat?
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Seriously good ball striking from these too! But we keep bowling length!
84 off 7.3
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Where was Klassen in the first 2 games - looks a class player
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The wheels are coming off here, are the trying to set a record in the number of extras conceded in an innings
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Bet they wish they hadn’t thrown plunkett out
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Death, tax & Ben Stokes taking screamers...
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Butler was due a big innings, perfect time to show up
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This is absolute carnage
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Morgan or stokes should’ve come in instead of Malan
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Shamsi is getting slaughtered
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Throwing this away, Malan not helping with that knock
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Malan will be criticised but he's out of position and not easy to tee off from ball 1
Plenty in the tank for England today 53 off 24.. going to be a good finish
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OH CAPTAIN MY CAPTAIN
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Some serious hitting from these two!
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Damn ..
DOWN! Mo doing mo things and getting caught in a Chase well nearly! Keep it on the deck!
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Scores tied with an over left!!!!
We have them an over in extra balls too! Insane!
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LEADER
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Who was it that posted T20 is boring? :)
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Is 240 about par here today?
Seems about right.
Top batting from Morgan and Co.
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Always thought Morgan was too high at 4. Much better as our finisher, so Malan at 4 makes more sense. Malan doesn't deserve any criticism for today, as had no game practice and under too much pressure to produce in a one off game.
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Just remember that Denly was being picked because the world t20 is in India and they want the extra spin option
World t20 is in Australia? In October November isn't it?
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World t20 is in Australia? In October November isn't it?
Yup, Denly’s being picked to try and justify that odd decision to give him a white ball contraxt
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Yup, Denly’s being picked to try and justify that odd decision to give him a white ball contraxt
Yes slightly hard to fathom that, a significant contribution to the test team and not much with the one day side so to the layman it just looks like the contracts are the wrong way round.
For T20, Malan maybe better than Denly from Today's team, he has more power and it's really a hitters game in 20 overs
No Joe Root and I think that's it for him, stick to tests and the 50 format where he is a big player
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Have to agree on Root. Yes, he does a phenomenal job in ODIs where you can run hard and rotate the strike well and be a crucial player but he doesn't hit big as well or as easily as the likes of Morgan, Malan, etc who are his competition to bat at 4.
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SA have done well in the t20s given it’s their worst side ever.
Add AB, Tahir, rabada and faf back into this side and it becomes a WC contender.
Probably missing a Morris as an allrounder
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I don’t think Root gets in the T20 squad anymore. Assuming the World Cup squad maximum is 15, I think I would go for this starting XI and back-up. If Banton has another good domestic T20 I would happy to see him take Malan’s place, and I’d probably move Bairstow to 3 and open with Roy & Banton. It will be interesting to see if Hales gets another chance.
Roy
Bairstow
Malan
Morgan
Buttler
Stokes
Ali
T.Curran
Jordan
Rashid
Archer
Billings / Hales
S.Curran
Wood
Banton
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Morgan seems to have just shut the door on Hales completely, he just brings up this 'trust' issue every time; whilst we are more than lucky to have as many openers as we do it'd be foolish not to work it all out. Yes, he's a moron, but the welfare from the ECB just seems nonexistent...
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$10 says Faf signs a Kolpak deal within 12 months.
You'd be wasting it, he'll obviously aim to play the t20wc and by the time that's done Kolpak will be done and dusted.
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Always thought Morgan was too high at 4. Much better as our finisher, so Malan at 4 makes more sense. Malan doesn't deserve any criticism for today, as had no game practice and under too much pressure to produce in a one off game.
No criticism of his batting giving his lack of game time but his running between the wickets was appalling yesterday.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/51525403 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/51525403)
England captain Eoin Morgan says there needs to be a "considerable amount of time" before Alex Hales is considered for international selection again.
Hales, 31, has not played for England since being dropped from the 50-over World Cup squad last summer because of an "off-field incident".
Since then, Hales has starred in the Big Bash League - finishing as the tournament's second-highest run scorer.
"There was a breakdown in trust between Alex and the team," Morgan said.
"When he was deselected, it was never down to performance. He is one of the best players in the world.
"Moving forward, to regain that trust there needs to be a considerable amount of time."
Nottinghamshire batsman Hales, who the Guardian reported failed a recreational drugs test in 2019, scored 576 runs for Sydney Thunder in the Big Bash - Australia's T20 franchise tournament - including six half-centuries.
He was the first pick in last year's Caribbean Premier League draft and is one of the platinum selections in this year's Pakistan Super League, where he will play for Karachi Kings. He is also a £100,000 local icon for Trent Rockets in this summer's The Hundred.
However, Morgan, who was speaking to the Test Match Special podcast, said Hales was not considered for England's white-ball matches in South Africa, which ended in a Twenty20 series win for the tourists in Centurion on Sunday.
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Morgan seems to be holding a grudge. I don’t think we’ll see Hales again until Morgan gives up the captaincy.
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Hales won't play again whilst Morgan is skipper.
Which probably means he won't play again.
We also have a wealth of high quality top order sloggers
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Is Morgan not just a puppet for the ECB
Surely selection is down to the selection panel and he’s just passing on the message to the press
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Is Morgan not just a puppet for the ECB
Surely selection is down to the selection panel and he’s just passing on the message to the press
ummmm, not really, in my time watching Englnd Morgan is the most powerful skipper ive know, he took us from old style cricket(one day) to World Champions
I don't think myself any skipper in the last few years has come anywhere close, he has done a remarkable job for us, really no praise is too high from where im sitting
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ummmm, not really, in my time watching Englnd Morgan is the most powerful skipper ive know, he took us from old style cricket(one day) to World Champions
I don't think myself any skipper in the last few years has come anywhere close, he has done a remarkable job for us, really no praise is too high from where im sitting
I meant in terms of team selection - I agree with the above that he’s a great captain on the field but he won’t have much of a say in selection. So it’s a bit unfair to blame Morgan for keeping hales out.
It’s down to the ECB, Morgan can only say what he’s been told to say to the press on hales
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I meant in terms of team selection - I agree with the above that he’s a great captain on the field but he won’t have much of a say in selection. So it’s a bit unfair to blame Morgan for keeping hales out.
It’s down to the ECB, Morgan can only say what he’s been told to say to the press on hales
perhaps...its depends how much say the Captain has of course, that's always been a grey area.....
as far as the breakdown of trust goes we are back in the exact same situation with KP, same problem.
if you look a just Hales contribution yes he's a good player, does he get in the final 11? I don't think so myself.
it seemed when Hales was left out the whole team was consulted, and the decision of everyone was Hales is not worth it.
its a mighty tricky area this 'breakdown of trust' it opens up all sorts of cans of worms
ultimately I don't think England need Hales, how much of a say Morgan has is difficult to say- I would say a lot but you may be right
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Hales was told not to be a nit wit. he then was a nit wit and given a further chance...
he then was a nit again.
Morgan, as a captain, hands were tied. If he keeps him about he's weak on behavior and the culture he's built would be undermined. he boots him and people keep asking "when Hales coming back?" Neither is particularly pleasant but it's clear which one Morgan values.
Ultimately, if Morgan wanted Hales, he could get him back in. The ECB aren't going to stop their most successful one day captain picking the players he wants. Morgan places culture above ability. Hales broke the rules of the dressing role when he was on his final warning. Malan could be next if he gets to a final ball again and doesn't run.
however well Hales plays, he won't get picked without Morgans approval. The team has enough options and it sets a clear message to the rest of the group....
don't be a nit wit!
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Hales was told not to be a nit wit. he then was a nit wit and given a further chance...
he then was a nit again.
Morgan, as a captain, hands were tied. If he keeps him about he's weak on behavior and the culture he's built would be undermined. he boots him and people keep asking "when Hales coming back?" Neither is particularly pleasant but it's clear which one Morgan values.
Ultimately, if Morgan wanted Hales, he could get him back in. The ECB aren't going to stop their most successful one day captain picking the players he wants. Morgan places culture above ability. Hales broke the rules of the dressing role when he was on his final warning. Malan could be next if he gets to a final ball again and doesn't run.
however well Hales plays, he won't get picked without Morgans approval. The team has enough options and it sets a clear message to the rest of the group....
don't be a nit wit!
this is very well summed up