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General Cricket => Latest Matches => Topic started by: SurreySam on October 01, 2021, 09:56:50 AM
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Will they won't they. Looks like a meeting is happening today for England players to decide on their availability, then the selectors can decide on a squad to be announced next week.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/sep/29/england-players-to-decide-this-weekend-over-participation-on-ashes-tour (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/sep/29/england-players-to-decide-this-weekend-over-participation-on-ashes-tour)
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I am not sure they will go to be honest. The Aussie states are all fighting and it will be a very tough tour.
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its a long tour so i can see why this is so important for the players to make the right decision for their families and mental health.
Tim Paine needs to wind his neck in on the subject, the aussies havent played an away match of any sort during covid so they cannot criticize anyone.
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I think we will be without some players, those that are T20 as well as the Ashes.
The Aussie government has said they are the same as any other profession so at the moment it’s in a bubble and quarantine and no travelling support.
And with no families allowed so far it’s a tough decision for the players.
Root is not commiting to the tour at present which might be significant.
Butler def won’t go without families
Can’t blame any of the players in my opinion for not travelling.
This bubble environment was flagged up very early by Eoin Morgan as unsustainable
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Tim Paine already been piping up with some arrogant comments. So much for the "New Era" of Australian cricket.
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its a long tour so i can see why this is so important for the players to make the right decision for their families and mental health.
Tim Paine needs to wind his neck in on the subject, the aussies havent played an away match of any sort during covid so they cannot criticize anyone.
Totally agree, Paine should keep his gob shut.
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I am not sure they will go to be honest. The Aussie states are all fighting and it will be a very tough tour.
I tend to agree with you. All the 2020 summer sports have (sort of) managed to get done in 2021. Postponing an Ashes for a year would be preferable to some half-arsed, no spectators, reserve team nonsense.
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best thing is to delay it, the only reason the ECB and ACB will push for it is money
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A second quarantine between tests? No thank you! Move the tests to another venue and we will talk!
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Agree it should be delayed. As for the finances yes TV money is the main source of money, but what about the impact of no travelling England fans? That’s got to have an impact over 5 games.
Wherever we go home teams want us because we normally travel with big support and spend money in the local areas
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A second quarantine between tests? No thank you! Move the tests to another venue and we will talk!
If I was a player, that'd be the aspect I would have trouble with the most.
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It seems to me that there is no chance of a full side touring given the length of the tour coming on the back of a world Cup and given the conditions that the players will your under and a very real chance of not going at all.
Australia will have to make some changes to the itinerary - a shorter tour and less moving around the country - to stand any chance of this going ahead.
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its a long tour so i can see why this is so important for the players to make the right decision for their families and mental health.
Tim Paine needs to wind his neck in on the subject, the aussies havent played an away match of any sort during covid so they cannot criticize anyone.
Yep - he's already kicked off the "mind games" on this . I suspect it will be postponed
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I remember not so ling ago the Aussies stopped their teams travelling for the Rugby League World cup due to covid. If they now wont allow partners in with the players I'd drop out ..simple as that
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best thing is to delay it, the only reason the ECB and ACB will push for it is money
The reason the ECB do most things?
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Tim Paine just wants his ticker tape day before they make Steve Smith captain again. Quite funny his state team cried and went home to their rock after someone sneezed in Perth,
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Tim Paine just wants his ticker tape day before they make Steve Smith captain again. Quite funny his state team cried and went home to their rock after someone sneezed in Perth,
The game was in Brisbane.
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its a long tour so i can see why this is so important for the players to make the right decision for their families and mental health.
Tim Paine needs to wind his neck in on the subject, the aussies havent played an away match of any sort during covid so they cannot criticize anyone.
2021: Australia have travelled to The Caribbean, Bangladesh and New Zealand to play some sort of International cricket.
2020: Australia travelled to England in September to play ODI’s.
Granted Tim Paine wasn’t chosen but there were a few other Australian cricketers that travelled internationally to play for their country during covid.
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2021: Australia have travelled to The Caribbean, Bangladesh and New Zealand to play some sort of International cricket.
2020: Australia travelled to England in September to play ODI’s.
Granted Tim Paine wasn’t chosen but there were a few other Australian cricketers that travelled internationally to play for their country during covid.
Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story @Hoover
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The game was in Brisbane.
The sneeze was in Perth.
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The sneeze was in Perth.
What are you talking about? https://www.cricket.com.au/news/queensland-tasmania-sheffield-shield-match-brisbane-postponed-covid-19-outbreak-cases/2021-09-28 (https://www.cricket.com.au/news/queensland-tasmania-sheffield-shield-match-brisbane-postponed-covid-19-outbreak-cases/2021-09-28)
When is the last time you looked at a map of Australia?
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2021: Australia have travelled to The Caribbean, Bangladesh and New Zealand to play some sort of International cricket.
2020: Australia travelled to England in September to play ODI’s.
Granted Tim Paine wasn’t chosen but there were a few other Australian cricketers that travelled internationally to play for their country during covid.
One cant deny that Aus did do a few overseas tours, but werent all of them short period stays involving ODIs or T20s? I dont remember any of the tours lasting really long and have test cricket involved!
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What are you talking about? https://www.cricket.com.au/news/queensland-tasmania-sheffield-shield-match-brisbane-postponed-covid-19-outbreak-cases/2021-09-28 (https://www.cricket.com.au/news/queensland-tasmania-sheffield-shield-match-brisbane-postponed-covid-19-outbreak-cases/2021-09-28)
When is the last time you looked at a map of Australia?
It was more broadly a joke. I'm sure there are more stringent protocol to follow than one person having a sniffle on the other side of the country.
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One cant deny that Aus did do a few overseas tours, but werent all of them short period stays involving ODIs or T20s? I dont remember any of the tours lasting really long and have test cricket involved!
Even before the pandemic, Australia has been more prominent than most at picking and choosing its tours.
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This doesn't seem particularly positive news for the tour going ahead
https://twitter.com/englandcricket/status/1444950179455639552?s=20
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I suppose no Ashes means we'll get some sleep this winter through the night...
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This doesn't seem particularly positive news for the tour going ahead
https://twitter.com/englandcricket/status/1444950179455639552?s=20
If you have read between the lines of the last ECB paragraph we are not prepared to send an under strength squad. So either the players get the details they need or postponement.
My money is on a rescheduled tour, not sure how that works with England’s packed schedule for 2022.
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I am sure supporters on both teams want the Ashes played with the best available squads with supporters of both teams present - it's what the Ashes deserve. The ECB update implies this and suspect it will get pushed back a year assuming its possible to do so.
If it is postponed the ECB should send a team of sorts to Pakistan for a short 7 to 10 day ODI tour or a one off test. Less bubble impact as a quick in and out.
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What are you talking about?
A sneeze. Along way from Brisbane.
The Aussie sense of humour doesn't seem to be improving much. :o
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If you have read between the lines of the last ECB paragraph we are not prepared to send an under strength squad. So either the players get the details they need or postponement.
My money is on a rescheduled tour, not sure how that works with England’s packed schedule for 2022.
There are so many obvious jokes about an understrength England team given its performance over the last three or four years...
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If you have read between the lines of the last ECB paragraph we are not prepared to send an under strength squad. So either the players get the details they need or postponement.
My money is on a rescheduled tour, not sure how that works with England’s packed schedule for 2022.
Yes, seems to have ruled out sending the best available squad prepared to travel if a number of first choice players opt out.
Not an easy task rescheduling tours given the packed calendar.
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They have packed next summer for our home series games and we do owe the Windies a home series for them to make some money from our travelling fans.
And yes, we also owe Pakistan as long as a sensible venue is picked like previously-the UAE.
The ECB I wouldn’t think would put our players under pressure to play in the Ashes, but they are probably also thinking just where it could be rescheduled for.
Tricky.
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It’s a good battle this between the ECB and CA…
CA can’t afford to not travel the broadcast money will be massive for them and with 7 already trying to squirm out of the deal it’s not going to be easy for them not to grant the ECB’s requests. But the major sticking point is the politicians rather than the cricket board stopping the families travelling.
Will be interesting to see how the next week pans out.
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Joe Root (Yorkshire) Captain
James Anderson (Lancashire)
Jonathan Bairstow (Yorkshire)
Dom Bess (Yorkshire)
Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire)
Rory Burns (Surrey)
Jos Buttler (Lancashire)
Zak Crawley (Kent)
Haseeb Hameed (Nottinghamshire)
Dan Lawrence (Essex)
Jack Leach (Somerset)
Dawid Malan (Yorkshire)
Craig Overton (Somerset)
Ollie Pope (Surrey)
Ollie Robinson (Sussex)
Chris Woakes (Warwickshire)
Mark Wood (Durham)
Shame there's no Foakes
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Attack missing a bit of firepower IMO. Feel like Parkinson and Mahmood would add more than Bess and one of the seamers.
Robinson should be handy on bouncy wickets, likewise Overton, very much in the Tremlett model. Worry is that Wood is going to be flogged into the ground very quickly and then there's no X factor about the attack.
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Given it appears that there will be a lions squad out there for the full duration of the trip, non-selection in this squad wouldn't appear to be terminal to the chances of playing at some point in the series.
Given only one away team has one a series in the last twondecades and without Stokes and Archer, it is a tall order
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Attack missing a bit of firepower IMO. Feel like Parkinson and Mahmood would add more than Bess and one of the seamers.
Robinson should be handy on bouncy wickets, likewise Overton, very much in the Tremlett model. Worry is that Wood is going to be flogged into the ground very quickly and then there's no X factor about the attack.
We know it’s very hard to balance the side without Stokes, and Crawley,Pope and Lawrence all in I expect us to go safety first and pack the batting even down to the 7 batsmen again.
There is a lack of firepower so we may have to pack the batting, unfortunately apart from Foakes..who looks likely only to play in Sri Lanka….this is probably the best we can select.
We do look the weakest we have been for a few years so I think expectations are fairly low. I certainly don’t expect us to win.
A draw might be a good result.
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I still think there is more to come out from this, the 'several critical conditions must be met before we travel' quote in the ECB statement has so many things attached to it.
Not saying what those conditions are allows the ECB and ACB some room for manoeuvre though.
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Well I think we will struggle to win most games, but I will enjoy watching the boys play some quality cricket nonetheless.
Now to figure out that brutal time difference...
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So Bess to be number 1 spinner, because his batting is better than Leach!?
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So Bess to be number 1 spinner, because his batting is better than Leach!?
well not the worst squad in the world. Just remember the Aussies have not been playing very well either. Get Smith out early and it's game on.
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So Bess to be number 1 spinner, because his batting is better than Leach!?
That could be the road we go down…Leach is the better spinner but I think myself we will need lower order runs to stay in the games.
There’s already loads on Roots shoulders, Malan has played well before out there, Hameed we don’t know how he is against pace.
So once again we will need runs from anywhere.
I also think Robinson will do well, Wood we can’t afford to bowl into the ground.
Looks a hard tour to me.
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So Bess to be number 1 spinner, because his batting is better than Leach!?
When I look at trying to balance the side with that squad, it sends shivers through me TBH. Unless we think a 4 man attack plus Root is going to bowl out the Aussies than Woakes/Bess/Robinson is batting 7 in Australia against their attack.
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With Silverwood and Root picking the side Leach and Bess will just be carrying drinks. Unless there's a big turner, in which case they will pick one of them for the following match.
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Woakes is at least as capable a 7 as Curran or Ali have been in test cricket.
Yes I'd feel better with Stokes in the top 6 and say Buttler at 7 but I'm more worried by the lack of incisiveness that bowling attack has unless the pitch is doing a bit.
If you're the Aussies looking at that squad, you're preparing tracks with absolutely no lateral movement and lining up Hazelwood, Starc, Cummins, Green, Pattinson, etc to blow England away with pace.
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You’re right but I can see us playing a batsman at 7 even as mad as that sounds.
Or leaving out the spinner with Root to do some part time.
We look like being stuck between a rock and a hard place, we need runs to give us a chance but that weakens our bowling on batsman friendly wickets.
The longer Stokes is out the more we might have to get used to it without him.
Health must come first of course but he may not return in a test shirt.
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Interesting article arguing that the Aussies are very brittle and England have superior strength in depth especially with regards to bowling. Not sure I agree with all of it but bowling Wood in Tests 1,3 and 5 and keeping him fresh is an idea I hope Silverwood has already thought of.
https://www.sportinglife.com/cricket/news/cricket-betting-tips-and-antepost-preview-england-the-value-call-for-ashes-glory-against-weak-australia/195253 (https://www.sportinglife.com/cricket/news/cricket-betting-tips-and-antepost-preview-england-the-value-call-for-ashes-glory-against-weak-australia/195253)
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Are Australia really that fast still or are we just traumatised by Mitchell Johnson in 2014?
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Are Australia really that fast still or are we just traumatised by Mitchell Johnson in 2014?
Cummins, Starc and Pattinson all routinely capable of 90mph+, quicker than everyone bar Wood.
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I suspect it is going to be a bit of an odd series.
The Aussies have played almost no test cricket the last two years.
But Eng going for the Bowl dry approach that this squad suggests is going to mean a long toil for Leach, Anderson and Robinson especially.
Marnus and Smith have plenty of patience.
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Any word yet as to what might happen with the TV and rado coverage?
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Any word yet as to what might happen with the TV and rado coverage?
Searched online but cannot find if BT sport did get the renewal as their deal ended, or it’s back on Sky.
Could be with doubt still over the conditions Sky or BT don’t want to commit millions just yet to cover it?
I think the current BT contract has expired so I read.
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It will be on BT again this year. They are taking the Fox coverage from Aus and adding a little studio show from Stratford.
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Stokes having a gentle net the other day - https://www.instagram.com/p/CVAh4alsgj9/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link (https://www.instagram.com/p/CVAh4alsgj9/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link)
Would be nice to have him back, but I'm not sure it'll happen for the Ashes.
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Health comes first but yes great news for us.
He really can’t be replaced in the current side.
Let’s hope the second operation did fix that finger this time.
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James Pattinson retired from international cricket. England’s chances increasing...
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James Pattinson retired from international cricket. England’s chances increasing...
Hypothetically, if Pattinson was English, how many caps and wickets would he finish up with? He might well be Englands best bowler currently
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Hypothetically, if Pattinson was English, how many caps and wickets would he finish up with? He might well be Englands best bowler currently
Good bowler, think 'potentially England's best' is a stretch.
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Hypothetically, if Pattinson was English, how many caps and wickets would he finish up with? He might well be Englands best bowler currently
Probably not a huge number more than he has managed.
Lets face it, his injury record makes Jofra Archer look robust, and we do have a habit of bowling people into the dirt.
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He was good when fit sounds like he wanted an ashes place badly and won’t carry on without one.
Just means one less to back up starc, hazlewood and Cummins.
Those three have stayed pretty fit recently and I think we are toast if they all play the first 3 tests
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I think had he been English, or wanted to play for England, Pattinson might’ve faired better than he did for Australia.
From what I saw of him in county cricket, he could swing it around with good control.
Australia seem obsessed by pace and Pattinson bulked up massively from the time of his debut.
All that extra weight obviously made him bowl quick but broke his body into pieces.
Think he could’ve been a 300 wicket bowler for England.
And he was always many leagues about the hype job Starc
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We had his brother, remember?
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One of the more bizarre England selections, that one
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We had his brother, remember?
I went to his only test. Very bizarre selection call
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Talking of bizarre? Dom Sibley has withdrawn from tbe Lions squad to focus on winning back his Test place.
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Talking of bizarre? Dom Sibley has withdrawn from tbe Lions squad to focus on winning back his Test place.
A bit unusual yes but he moved from Surrey to Warks to bat top order for England. There’s plenty of opinion on here and elsewhere he’s not good enough but he’s got his own mind and technique.
He wants his place back and thinks a winter working with coaches will improve his game. Maybe it will so he can work on weak areas.
England gave contracts to Crawley and Pope and they look the most likely to do well long term, but Sibley has the mentality to bat long similar to Hameed.
I hope Sibley improves his game, He may not get back in but we are not flush with test match openers waiting to come in.
I guess there’s a debate what is the best way to improve, get out in a match situation or technically work on weak points…
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Being with the Lions ought to put him in pole position?
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Talking of bizarre? Dom Sibley has withdrawn from tbe Lions squad to focus on winning back his Test place.
Makes sense to me, carrying on as before but scoring a few runs for the Lions won't do a lot to win his spot back when there's three or four blokes ahead of him. Take some time out and come back better at the start of next season and he'll be knocking on the door again for sure.
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STOKES ADDED TO ASHES SQUAD!!!
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Awesome news! :)
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Brilliant for England. What’s everyone’s starting 11 now?
1- Burns
2 - Hameed
3 - Malan
4 - Root
5 - Bairstow
6 - Stokes
7 - Butler
8 - Woakes
9 - Wood
10 - Leach
11 - Broad/Anderson
Wood needs to play for the extra pace, Leach as we need a spin option? Woakes as he’s the wizard? Does Robinson get in?
Lots of questions and stokes being back makes selection much harder which of course is a good thing ….
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WHAT A DAY
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Great to see Stokes back.
I don't see England dropping Robinson, particularly if they're going to try and bowl dry then he's absolutely priceless. No great pace but accuracy, bounce given his height and if there's movement to be had you'd imagine he'll find it.
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Burns
Hameed
Malan
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Butler
Woakes
Robinson
Anderson/broad
Leach
But of a tough call but this would be my starting 11 come the first test and I’d question whether you can rely on stokes as a bowling option these days especially with his fitness being a concern
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I think Wood will play ahead of either Leach or Anderson/Broad. Other than that, probably bang on. Would prefer to see Pope in ahead of Bairstow but not convinced they'll do it.
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Hope he isnt rushing into things. An Ashes away tour can be very mentally challenging as it is. Imagine coming back after an extended time away from the game and meeting all those expectations! Very big call...hope it doesnt backfire for him.
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I have a feeling they fancy Crawley over Hameed for the openers slot alongside Burns,even with Crawley's recent struggles. Will be very interested to see what they go with. Great to see Ben back.
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Hope he isnt rushing into things. An Ashes away tour can be very mentally challenging as it is. Imagine coming back after an extended time away from the game and meeting all those expectations! Very big call...hope it doesnt backfire for him.
Yeah exactly. I know he's an amazing player but it must be quite a lot even for him to get back to such high quality cricket from playing no cricket for a while.
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Burns
Hameed
Malan
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Butler
Woakes
Robinson
Anderson/broad
Leach
But of a tough call but this would be my starting 11 come the first test and I’d question whether you can rely on stokes as a bowling option these days especially with his fitness being a concern
Burns
Hameed / Crawley
Malan
Root
Bairstow / Pope
Stokes
Butler
Woakes / Robinson
Leach
Wood / Robinson
Anderson / Broad
These are the decisions I think we have.
I also think they fancy Crawley in Australia over Hameed and maybe concerned about Hameed against the short ball.
Bairstow vs Pope is an interesting one, I would go for Pope but I think Bairstow will play.
The bowling line up - I think you have to play a spinner now that Stokes is fit and I hope Wood plays as we need someone with a point of difference. So then it just depends on if you think Robinson is good enough to bat 8 vs his bowling merits over Woakes at 8 etc.... Plus 1 of Anderson or Broad. I really don't think they can play together across an Ashes series like this.
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I don’t think it makes too much difference with the seamers as they surely will be rotated-we don’t have a lot of fit back ups..
Robinson over Broad for me I would say and Stokes being back means Leach can play a part at last.
Agree they will pick Bairstow in front of Pope but soon enough Crawley and Pope should be in the side-I think the ECB have backed the right two long term.
Hameed is untested against pace and Burns does enough to retain his place. I think it will be a while yet before the batting order fully settles down.
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There has been one away series win in 20 years so it is a big task ahead, but Stokes coming back will be a big lift to morale.
Interesting selection decisions for Silverwood in the batting line up. Crawley and Pope have the talent but also seem very wet and not the sort of guys you want around when things are tough. Personally, a would go with Bairstow and Hameed. Hameed has questions over playing in bouncy pitches with his low hands but as a pair, they come across as tougher and more resilient.
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There has been one away series win in 20 years so it is a big task ahead, but Stokes coming back will be a big lift to morale.
Interesting selection decisions for Silverwood in the batting line up. Crawley and Pope have the talent but also seem very wet and not the sort of guys you want around when things are tough. Personally, a would go with Bairstow and Hameed. Hameed has questions over playing in bouncy pitches with his low hands but as a pair, they come across as tougher and more resilient.
Like this, some very good points re the batting selections, have to agree you need some tough characters
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Going to need a reliable slip cordon and I think Crawley has been pretty good in there. Although Pope is very good at short leg too, so not easy decisions selecting the playing eleven.
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There has been one away series win in 20 years so it is a big task ahead, but Stokes coming back will be a big lift to morale.
Interesting selection decisions for Silverwood in the batting line up. Crawley and Pope have the talent but also seem very wet and not the sort of guys you want around when things are tough. Personally, a would go with Bairstow and Hameed. Hameed has questions over playing in bouncy pitches with his low hands but as a pair, they come across as tougher and more resilient.
It’s strange because I get the opposite impression from Hameed. Couldn’t explain it. I understand he has come through testing times however
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Paine is gone, taking a mental health break from cricket.
Cummins is captain, Smith VC.
Looks like a straight shoot out between Carey and Inglis for the wk spot during the warm up game.
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Right, first test starts this week.
Aussies have named their team already.
Australia XI for First Ashes Test: Marcus Harris, David Warner, Marnus Labuschagne, Steve Smith, Travis Head, Cameron Green, Alex Carey (wk), Pat Cummins (c), Mitch Starc, Nathan Lyon, Josh Hazlewood.
Oh and the Perth test has been cancelled, so will be moved somewhere TBC depending on the Rona...
Usually I would have a near certain Eng team but at the moment I don't.
It looks as if it will be
Burns
Hameed
Malan
Rooooooot
Stokes
Bairstow (Pope?)
Buttler
Robinson
Leach
Broad
Anderson
On a pretty green pitch, but to be honest Woakes may play and or Wood, I haven't heard yet.
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Think Wood over one of Broad or Anderson unless it is somehow going to do loads off the pitch/in the air.
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Yeah, it’s going to have to be a real seamer or the overhead conditions just right to select Robinson, Broad and Anderson in the XI. They could really do with the bat of Woakes if that’s was the case too
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Think the second test is day night so they might have one eye on that for Anderson.
Personally I think Anderson has to play two on the trot with Robinson.
Batting wise Bairstow and Pope for one position I suspect JB will get the nod. I’d have Pope but a clear cut argument for one over another is tough to make.
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Right, first test starts this week.
Aussies have named their team already.
Australia XI for First Ashes Test: Marcus Harris, David Warner, Marnus Labuschagne, Steve Smith, Travis Head, Cameron Green, Alex Carey (wk), Pat Cummins (c), Mitch Starc, Nathan Lyon, Josh Hazlewood.
Oh and the Perth test has been cancelled, so will be moved somewhere TBC depending on the Rona...
Usually I would have a near certain Eng team but at the moment I don't.
It looks as if it will be
Burns
Hameed
Malan
Rooooooot
Stokes
Bairstow (Pope?)
Buttler
Robinson
Leach
Broad
Anderson
On a pretty green pitch, but to be honest Woakes may play and or Wood, I haven't heard yet.
I'd go with that. Depending on conditions change one of the bowlers for Wood.
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Aren't Anderson and Broad's records in Australia 'surprisingly' good?
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Any special offers to watch the Ashes on tele? Or where we can get extended highlights? Ta!
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Any special offers to watch the Ashes on tele? Or where we can get extended highlights? Ta!
You can get a monthly pass to bt sport for £25
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Aren't Anderson and Broad's records in Australia 'surprisingly' good?
Anderson averages 35 and broad 37 in aus
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Right, first test starts this week.
Aussies have named their team already.
Australia XI for First Ashes Test: Marcus Harris, David Warner, Marnus Labuschagne, Steve Smith, Travis Head, Cameron Green, Alex Carey (wk), Pat Cummins (c), Mitch Starc, Nathan Lyon, Josh Hazlewood.
Oh and the Perth test has been cancelled, so will be moved somewhere TBC depending on the Rona...
Usually I would have a near certain Eng team but at the moment I don't.
It looks as if it will be
Burns
Hameed
Malan
Rooooooot
Stokes
Bairstow (Pope?)
Buttler
Robinson
Leach
Broad
Anderson
On a pretty green pitch, but to be honest Woakes may play and or Wood, I haven't heard yet.
Did you see the photo of the Gabba pitch 2 days out, very green, I realise it won't look like that come the toss, but there is weather about.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CXItDgkBXPQ/?utm_medium=copy_link (https://www.instagram.com/p/CXItDgkBXPQ/?utm_medium=copy_link)
I think they will pick Bairstow but I would have liked to see Pope myself, he scored runs in similar conditions in SA.
I think they will seriously consider 4 seamers in the side.
The fact the Pink Ball test is straight after this one may mean Broad is kept fresh for that though.
Lots of questions..
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We will have 4 if Stokes bowls and still room for a spinner if needed.
That’s how important he is for the team even if it’s a few overs starting back.
I’m not sure about Broad, just back from an injury but if there is any movement I think I would want Anderson and Robinson as the first 2 names.
Not writing off Broad thou, he had Warner on toast no so long ago
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Now we know why there is no leaking team
Anderson is out injured. Woakes will likely play. Not a bad thing in my view.
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Now we know why there is no leaking team
Anderson is out injured. Woakes will likely play. Not a bad thing in my view.
oh really? where have you heard this @Buzz Ive not come across anything
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Now we know why there is no leaking team
Anderson is out injured. Woakes will likely play. Not a bad thing in my view.
Oh dear...the seam bowling unit is a bit fragile then :(
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Pope is in over Bairstow. I'm so keen for him to do well!
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Good spot Billy, it has been a very long time since there was no Broad or Anderson in an England team, this may happen tonight.
England have named a 12-man squad for the first Ashes Test at Brisbane
Root
Broad
Burns
Buttler
Hameed
Leach
Malan
Pope
Robinson
Stokes
Woakes
Wood
Ollie Pope is selected in the squad ahead of Jonny Bairstow.
Also I love this as a batting order. 😂
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Now we know why there is no leaking team
Anderson is out injured. Woakes will likely play. Not a bad thing in my view.
Where did you hear he was injured? All the interviews they are very adamant that Jimmy is just being managed to be ready for the Pink Ball Test - although they would say that.
I am glad they have gone with Pope , whether they play Leach will just be pitch dependent I suppose. Woakes does make the batting order a lot longer though.
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Not playing Anderson is probably the right thing to. I really pray that they pick Leach and stop this all seamer nonsense
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They have tested Jimmy with an eye on the next match. Woakes in still makes it a good seam attack if he plays plus an extra batter.
Surprised but pleased Pope is in, thought they would go with JB
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Are there any 'normal' TV highlights for each days play, like Channel5 or something?
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Are there any 'normal' TV highlights for each days play, like Channel5 or something?
Great question! Maybe cricket Australia YouTube channel?
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Are there any 'normal' TV highlights for each days play, like Channel5 or something?
Not currently and no mention of them in the pipeline unfortunately.
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Any special offers to watch the Ashes on tele? Or where we can get extended highlights? Ta!
I'd suggest being very kind to someone who uses BT Broadband 😆
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I stand corrected about Broad and Anderson in Australia.
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Are there any 'normal' TV highlights for each days play, like Channel5 or something?
Not sure how good it'll be, but the BBC have said they'll be doing a highlights show at 5pm on the BBC iPlayer.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59443111 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59443111)
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Looks like a straight pick between Leach and Woakes depending on the conditions.
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Looks like a straight pick between Leach and Woakes depending on the conditions.
You may well be right, think I would be making a straight pick between broad and leach thou if it’s that scenario.
I doubt this would matter but Woakes is in possession of the place as Broad was injured.
Might not make any difference thou.
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Looks like a straight pick between Leach and Woakes depending on the conditions.
No, it is a pick between Broad and Leach.
Which is mad really, the idea that you go into a test match with out a spinner is just stupid.
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Agree Buzz, we do it quite a lot even on flat pitches.
I don’t know but wonder when the Aussies last left Lyon out of a game in any conditions.
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Wonder what Woakes has done to justify selection over Broad and Leach. I know conditions are favourable to the home team but I'd still fancy Broad against their lefties in their top six.
Got the whole week off work and not sure how I'll be able to pull off the all-nighters, but the weather forecast looks awful.
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With the dodgy forecast and England being... England, I'd be surprised if they picked Leach. Hope they prove me wrong and do pick him though
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Telegraph reporting that Leachy is playing
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Leach has to play
I appreciate Broad has had Warner on a plate - but he simply does not take enough wickets with the new ball.
Wood
Woakes
Robinson
Stokes
Leach
is the attack in this first test for me.
Also, Robinson to take a hatful of wickets and be a new Fraser for me.
Anderson and Broad to not last the series
Mahmood, Foakes and Lawrence to play before the end of the series
We need to grab our nut-sacks, wave them at the Aussies and brass it out this series (oh, and not lose either of the first 2 tests!)
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This is going to be a lonnnnnnng Ashes. Tufnell speaks a load of nonsense most of the time, but on this occasion he’s bang on the money. Leaving Broad out for Leach is madness.
This is going to be 5-0.
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Oh Jesus Christ
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Absolutely amazed that we have left Broad out on that surface. Robinson and Broad opening up on that surface looks as good a chance as we have had in 30 years to make an impact in Brisbane
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Farrrrrk...
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Still abject then
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Farrrrrk...
x2
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Game over
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Not sure Stokes anticipated facing the music this early.
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Game over
Series over?
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Why do we like this sport again?
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Might just go to bed
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That was an abject first innings if there ever was one
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Well that’s about as disappointing as it gets walking up early for this scorecard, back to bed as seeing an opener get bowled round his legs first ball is more than I can take these days. Bloody l h stump half volley
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Only slight negatives are that Hameed showed character, and Pope looked good. Buttler too, I guess.
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England have centralised a lot of control with Chris Silverwood and this day feels like a failure on his part. A team selection that looks like it was made in a conference room back in England in October followed by a poor decision at the toss dictated by getting the team selection wrong. Hopefully the rain is worse than forecast
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That was about is depressing as it gets 1st day of an Ashes, waking up to that, then watching through those dissmals. Burns was an absolute joke!
I blame Nasser TBH he has put the fear into future England captains bowling 1st in Oz.
As for the team selection I really think Silverwood has this fixation on rest and rotation and long/medium term planning, rather than the actual game that's on now. I get that Broad and Anderson are getting on and the Pink Ball test is straight after, but all the stats say if you lose in Brisbane, you lose the Ashes, simple as that.
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Don't really understand the decision to bat first looking at the pitch.
That said, abysmal batting performance from the top order (barring Hameed who at least showed some spine) and England as a whole looked undercooked. Yet again, going into a big series without adequate preparation in place.
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On the plus side, if England get battered in the Ashes (which I think they will do) it will likely hasten the exit of Silverwood, which will only be a good thing for England.
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I don’t know what to make of last night if I’m honest.
The pitch did indeed remain green as it looked 2 days out. I always want a spinner in but thought Anderson would play, not sure about Broad…but we had neither.
On the plus side Pope did well he will do well long term, hasseb and Butler played well.
I think….we need rain to shorten this match and get out with a draw
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I don't get that this is Silverwood's problem. Our batting lineup just isn't good enough! And not any candidates in county cricket that are really sticking their hand up to be selected.
As for the bowling attack, they have picked their best spinner. And then the quickest bowler we've got. Then two reliable options that have had solid summers. Omitting two legends of the game yes, but one hasn't had a proper run out after a long lay off and the other is being saved for the next test. Back to back tests as 39yo seamer isn't going to be a easy on limited practice.
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Yep, batting is a key issue and not going to get sorted anytime soon. With the counties and ECB focused on revenue from T20 and !00 the longer formats suffer - plus with championship starting in April etc. it doesnt help techniques. Added to that at academy level they are also focused on the short game - my two lads are involved with Sussex and they want to develop T20 players. My eldest was criticized for being too slow as looked for run a ball rather than smashing it.
First test was key as sets the tone for the series....I know why they batted first but a risk with our line up and safer to bowl first.
Glad I didn't stay up to watch lets all do a rain dance!
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I think there is increasingly a case for greater separation between the red and white ball setups.
Increasingly they're requiring different skillsets and that's as true of coaching and support staff as it is of players.
Not sure I believe any one person can juggle the responsibilities of selecting, managing and improving both red and white ball sides.
Side note - while I agree nobody is absolutely screaming for red ball inclusion, I'm not sure that the likes of Burns/Malan are absolutely screaming to be retained longer term either.
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I think there is increasingly a case for greater separation between the red and white ball setups.
Increasingly they're requiring different skillsets and that's as true of coaching and support staff as it is of players.
Not sure I believe any one person can juggle the responsibilities of selecting, managing and improving both red and white ball sides.
Side note - while I agree nobody is absolutely screaming for red ball inclusion, I'm not sure that the likes of Burns/Malan are absolutely screaming to be retained longer term either.
I agree with you Jimbo. But I look at other teams and their squads often look the same. I think of Australia with Warner and Smith. India with KL Rahul and Rohit. Pakistan with Babar and Rizwan. Other teams around the world can often incorporate their T20 stars into the test side and remain successful.
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That went about as well as expected.
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I agree with you Jimbo. But I look at other teams and their squads often look the same. I think of Australia with Warner and Smith. India with KL Rahul and Rohit. Pakistan with Babar and Rizwan. Other teams around the world can often incorporate their T20 stars into the test side and remain successful.
England have Stokes, Buttler, Archer, Woakes, Malan from the T20s plus Root and Wood from the wider white ball squad, so it's not like they don't have cross format players.
I think it wouldn't hurt though to look at the red ball skillset of their squad and try to bring in a few more guys whose approach is more suited to facilitating the talent of Root, Stokes, Pope, etc.
A good analogy is looking at PSG with Neymar, Mbappe and Messi. Phenomenal, exciting players but their team isn't really set up to make the most of them and the rest of the side isn't best suited to facilitating their talents.
Hameed seems to be making his way back to the player we thought he could be but I'd like to see more nuggety players in the top 3. Maybe not guys who will average a huge amount or smash teams, but experienced heads who will grind out a 30/40 and set a platform.
Burns is a bizarre one because he either seems to get out for zip or make a significant contribution. Not sure Malan is the best option at 3, wouldn't object to them selecting a third opener or demoting Burns to 3 and bringing in someone else up top.
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England have Stokes, Buttler, Archer, Woakes, Malan from the T20s plus Root and Wood from the wider white ball squad, so it's not like they don't have cross format players.
I think it wouldn't hurt though to look at the red ball skillset of their squad and try to bring in a few more guys whose approach is more suited to facilitating the talent of Root, Stokes, Pope, etc.
A good analogy is looking at PSG with Neymar, Mbappe and Messi. Phenomenal, exciting players but their team isn't really set up to make the most of them and the rest of the side isn't best suited to facilitating their talents.
Hameed seems to be making his way back to the player we thought he could be but I'd like to see more nuggety players in the top 3. Maybe not guys who will average a huge amount or smash teams, but experienced heads who will grind out a 30/40 and set a platform.
Burns is a bizarre one because he either seems to get out for zip or make a significant contribution. Not sure Malan is the best option at 3, wouldn't object to them selecting a third opener or demoting Burns to 3 and bringing in someone else up top.
Sorry Jimbo, my point was more suggesting that the argument to stop the selection of "white ball" players for tests isn't valid. Talent is talent as Smith, Babar, Rizwan, Rohit etc illustrate, no matter the format.
In truth, I don't know many county players who are actually pushing for selection. Part of that is my ignorance as I am a Somerset fan. The team should be well set between 4-7 with Root, Stokes, Pope and Buttler/Foakes. Hameed is looking promising once again, but I don't know how long his leash is. Should be be expecting him to average 40 this series like any good opener?
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Sorry Jimbo, my point was more suggesting that the argument to stop the selection of "white ball" players for tests isn't valid. Talent is talent as Smith, Babar, Rizwan, Rohit etc illustrate, no matter the format.
In truth, I don't know many county players who are actually pushing for selection. Part of that is my ignorance as I am a Somerset fan. The team should be well set between 4-7 with Root, Stokes, Pope and Buttler/Foakes. Hameed is looking promising once again, but I don't know how long his leash is. Should be be expecting him to average 40 this series like any good opener?
Don’t think it matters your a Somerset fan, the rest of us cannot name 5 others banging the door down because there are not 5 other names who would do any better.
The best players are out there. England have backed Crawley and Pope with contracts are that looks on potential to be right. Sibley got binned maybe or maybe not to come again.
As an England fan I’m not expecting Hameed to average 40, he’s young and needs time. I do think we need significant contributions from the senior players just to compete in this series.
Our batting resources are very thin indeed. We might just have to suck it up at the end of the day
We are not that good a test side. We are pretty average.
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My point about separation of the white and red ball setups was more about the coaching and selection than pigeonholing players as one or the other.
I don't particularly agree with the philosophy of picking a player for red ball based on good white ball form though, especially not in T20.
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Playing well in white ball formats just simply doesn't translate well over to red ball. The mindset you need to have is completely different, it's unfortunate we have so many good white ball players but so many average red ball players.
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Playing well in white ball formats just simply doesn't translate well over to red ball. The mindset you need to have is completely different, it's unfortunate we have so many good white ball players but so many average red ball players.
Bairstow is a good example of this. He has prioritised white ball cricket since 2018, probably to help win the World cup in 2019. But look at his test career in 2016, he was a world beater. That doesn't just go away, he switched priority and mindset toward white ball.
There were a few calls to take Livingstone down under and I agree with you. Not sure it would've worked out at all.
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Always been a massive fan of Crawley and feel that burns has maybe this test and the next before he is replaced with Zak at the top. Just a gut feeling nothing more.
I really do think that England do need to separate totally the red ball and white ball game as the differences are just vast and with the amount of cricket our national side plays it’s near on impossible to flip between the two successfully in my opinion.
Must say Aus bowled and caught superbly abs they have less cricket under there belts than us and had same warm up issues
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This is just an observation from a neutral cricket fan. The England administration, media and majority of the fans put too much emphasis on The Ashes. Everything that is done is in preparation, which imho is just asking for chopping and changing personnel. The obsession with average does not help much either. I rather have the top 3 score 30+ runs each but chew up 40 to 50 overs, which basically allows Root, Stokes, Pope, Buttler crack at bowlers that are tired and not face them like yesterday. That was the template that India used last year, where Pujara did not score much but he chewed up a lot of balls which tired out Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood.
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Are there any 'normal' TV highlights for each days play, like Channel5 or something?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0b8bp8r (https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0b8bp8r)
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Just been on the socials.
Weather in Brisbane is glorious! Not a cloud in the sky. Possible showers this afternoon apparently.
https://twitter.com/GarethLong_/status/1468696098927644674?t=A-j7-nOlD5sYdULoin7EwQ&s=19
https://twitter.com/CGradeCyclist/status/1468697977870962690?t=T96bjGmVerhl6W36KSWtjg&s=19
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Pffffffft!!
Seriously - apart from the last time we won over there, can anyone remember the last time we started well in Australia in the Ashes?
Questions need to be asked of the management and Captain for the selection and toss-choice - but really, is this any different to any pther tour?
Real moment for Burns, Root, Stokes, Butler, Woakes and Wood to stand up and take this game back!
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I don't know... Most of the dismissals did dearie some decent bowling but... Why were we batting anyway, and what the hell was Burns up to?
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Burns moves across quite a lot to get inside the line…I don’t believe Cummins was actually aiming there for one minute…
I’m stumped on the team and toss. I want us to play a spinner most of the time, Leach should of played a lot more in the last 2 years
But the pitch was the same as 2 days out….very green.
So even thou there’s a day night game next I thought Anderson would play, then Broad is left out too.
As we had Leach in the team Root needed to be bowling last.
I dunno..it’s one game in the last load we have played where it’s so green a spinner should not of been picked
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Gloom and doom all over again!
Let AUS bat and then see how badly ENG performed.
Reserve judgement until both sides have batted on the pitch.
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Get in Robinson!!!!
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Robbo is so good
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Welcome back Stokes.
...denied :(
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Oh fml
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Bowling unit is creating chances, can't ask for more than that. Fingers crossed for another wicket to fall.
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When are they going to realise with these half chances they're far too short in the field
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Few catches just dropping short :(
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Welcome to Australia, lads. 150-1 and no end in sight. :(
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OH MY GOD ROBINSON!!!
Edited Later: That was a really poor shot from Carey.
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Leach has been so poor
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Gloom and doom all over again!
Let AUS bat and then see how badly ENG performed.
Reserve judgement until both sides have batted on the pitch.
I think a lot of us knew already from experience. Further problem will be the fitness of some of our bowlers which without warm up games was also predictable
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Fielding let's us down again!
I don't think you can fault the bowlers at all they created chances and then got tired and Head cashed in.
Robinson outstanding. Leach to only one not good enough really.
Now just the small matter of replicating the 2010 Cook, Strauss & Trott rescue act..... only problem is Burns, Hameed & Malan doesn't really have the same ring to it does it!
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At least we got smith out cheaply for once, silver linings and all that.
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Think it's unfair to just say Leach was poor and leave it at that. He's been given absolutely no opportunities to find form, rhythm or match fitness since the India tour. His last test before today was early March. Spectacularly poor from England management given they've spent two years going on about preparing for the Ashes.
Likewise, the rest of the bowlers have been given a couple of internal squad games which were largely rained off. How does that constitute well planned preparation for a major series?
Fielding was poor as well, lot of chances missed. Burns seems to drop a phenomenal number of chances for somebody who had a reputation as a decent slip catcher.
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Think it's unfair to just say Leach was poor and leave it at that. He's been given absolutely no opportunities to find form, rhythm or match fitness since the India tour. His last test before today was early March. Spectacularly poor from England management given they've spent two years going on about preparing for the Ashes.
Likewise, the rest of the bowlers have been given a couple of internal squad games which were largely rained off. How does that constitute well planned preparation for a major series?
Fielding was poor as well, lot of chances missed. Burns seems to drop a phenomenal number of chances for somebody who had a reputation as a decent slip catcher.
Totally right. I would like us to play a spinner more often but the one game he gets is on a green seamer in 2 years.
I think it’s unrealistic to expect our bowlers to roll out the Aussies with no preparation. Yes it’s the same for them but is a tough ask for Leach.
I also think Burns has done enough for a batting spot but he shells a huge amount in the slips…it’s not the first time straightforward chances hit the turf.
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Leach is not a bad bowler, but the way he's been treated (and Ali before him) is horrendous management IMO.
In all honesty I thought they should have blooded Parkinson in test cricket in an inconsequential game before now, not that he'd be a solution here but I cannot see a future where he's not an England test match bowler.
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Leach is not a bad bowler, but the way he's been treated (and Ali before him) is horrendous management IMO.
In all honesty I thought they should have blooded Parkinson in test cricket in an inconsequential game before now, not that he'd be a solution here but I cannot see a future where he's not an England test match bowler.
Love Parkinson. We don’t have a high quality spinner and who doesn’t love some leg spin? I don’t see too much risk compared to playing Leach
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Leach bowling with leg slip only and root bowling with leg and regular slip.
????
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In Silverwood we trust.
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Love Parkinson. We don’t have a high quality spinner and who doesn’t love some leg spin? I don’t see too much risk compared to playing Leach
He's also massively improved his control over the last year or so which was my one big reservation about him as a red ball player. Matter of time before he's in the test team I hope.
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Captain and management have messed around another spinner in Leach horribly. No surprises this is the end result. England has a history of ruining spinners.
Such a shame,feel for the lad.
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Captain and management have messed around another spinner in Leach horribly. No surprises this is the end result. England has a history of ruining spinners.
Such a shame,feel for the lad.
Well said. If we really were preparing for this series 12 months ago the planning is worse than useless
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Read a few comments on here regarding selection etc.
Australia are blessed with some truly world class players in Smith, Marnus, Warner, Cummins, Lyon, Starc and Hazelwood.
However we might like to dress it up in Australia they are by far a better side. Over here the contest is far closer. It is harder for the English batters to face the four Australian bowlers than for their batters to play Wood, Woakes, Robinson, Leach and an unfit looking Stokes.
I've seen comments saying Burns should be dropped etc. etc. but the problem is there is nobody out there that is any better. Nobody is knocking down the down demanding to be selected for the test match side. This is totally different from the ODI and T20 sides where we have an abundance of talent.
The issue remains the county game. Until the first class game gets priority we will continue to struggle. The lack of preparation for the Ashes didn't help, of course.
So drop Burns by all means and bring in Crawley but it won't make a massive difference as the talent pool in the first class game just isn't there and we are up against a strong side in their own conditions and they have some world class players and we have Root, Stokes, Anderson and Broad (two or which aren't playing).
Enjoy our white ball cricket because we are good at it but just accept that we are bang average at test cricket and have been for quite a while.
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Think it's unfair to just say Leach was poor and leave it at that. He's been given absolutely no opportunities to find form, rhythm or match fitness since the India tour. His last test before today was early March. Spectacularly poor from England management given they've spent two years going on about preparing for the Ashes.
Likewise, the rest of the bowlers have been given a couple of internal squad games which were largely rained off. How does that constitute well planned preparation for a major series?
Fielding was poor as well, lot of chances missed. Burns seems to drop a phenomenal number of chances for somebody who had a reputation as a decent slip catcher.
I agree that Leach has been mucked around by the management and was probably under prepared, but if that's the case then have the honesty to not pick him.
It may sound harsh but if you pick a spinner, they simply can't go at 8.6 an over, especially in Oz when it's energy sapping spells for the quicks etc....
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Leach may have been given a raw deal, but a test match spinner should be able to at least contain regardless of the pitch, practice or opposition. He's gone at 9's and its not the first time he's been targeted. A good ploy from the Aussies but you'd think he'd come up with a plan to combat that. Surely the figures of the seamers just shows this was a poor selection based on the pitch conditions though.
However, it's the same issues for us. Brittle top order, fitness issues within the seamers, lack of real quality spin options and poor catching. None of those new problems. You can't score 140 odd, then not take every chance and expect anything.
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Well batted Mr. Head. The future of this series is looking fairly bleak for England, although there is a long way to go yet!!
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On this pitch of all pitches I was surprised Leach played looking at the wicket.
Tufnell says on BBC in an interview Leach was given a hospital pass and I agree with him.
I think as fans we really do need to accept we are pretty average but also should there be questions how the team is being managed?
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On this pitch of all pitches I was surprised Leach played looking at the wicket.
Tufnell says on BBC in an interview Leach was given a hospital pass and I agree with him.
I think as fans we really do need to accept we are pretty average but also should there be questions how the team is being managed?
The bit that gets me most is that supposedly our bowling unit were rested for the last 18 months to prepare them for this series. Then in the opening test, we rest our arguably best bowlers
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The bit that gets me most is that supposedly our bowling unit were rested for the last 18 months to prepare them for this series. Then in the opening test, we rest our arguably best bowlers
This is exactly it for me. All the planning has been for this 1st test etc... remember the rest and rotation debacle during Sri Lanka and India. I think someone said earlier its almost like they decided this would be the team 3 months ago and then didn't bother to look at the conditions.
I would really like to know about who makes the decisions on all this between Root and Silverwood. It will be an interesting presser if we get rolled 2nd dig.
You can talk all about us only getting 140 but we knew the batting frailties and to deny those and bat 1st, when staring at the greenist pitch the Gabba Ashes Test has seen in decades is just stupidity.
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Totally agree with the last 2 comments. We know the day night test follows this and it’s back to back, but I thought we would play one of Anderson or Broad at least.
Having picked a spinner Root must of thought we cannot bat last even on a green wicket.
It’s frustrating. We have to get selection right just to compete.
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I have a feeling that this match won’t go in to day four. Australia probably already have enough to win by an innings, but if they add another 80-100 in the morning session I’d say the likelihood increases from probable to definite.
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Why can’t Root bowl more? He’s decent enough. On this pitch, picking Leach over Broad was moronic.
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Also have to say- Marnus played a stunning knock. He left plenty of wicket taking deliveries- deliveries that would have certainly knicked off other batsmen. Really set it up for Head.
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The bit that gets me most is that supposedly our bowling unit were rested for the last 18 months to prepare them for this series. Then in the opening test, we rest our arguably best bowlers
Bizarre strategy in all honesty, the fact that neither of them are playing the first test is simply baffling.
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You won't win games of cricket in Aus scoring 150 in the first dig. But yeah,all down to the choice of bowling attack.
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Interesting to see Nowell and Bess took 9 wickets between the on the first day of the Lions vs Australia A match. The Lions top 4 didnt go well in response though. 13-3 on the close of day 1.
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You won't win games of cricket in Aus scoring 150 in the first dig. But yeah,all down to the choice of bowling attack.
We shouldn't have batted first on a green pitch with rain forecast during the day. The decision to bat first was dictated by getting the team selection wrong.
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This is going to be a huge test of character now. Australia is such a difficult place to tour when things are going badly. An England win was always against the odds - in the last 20 years only one away side has won a series in either country - but England could not have asked for better conditions to start the series at Brisbane. To voluntarily squander that advantage before the first ball is bowled is going to be such a tough one to come back from. Conversely, the boost it will have given Australia will give them a massive amount of momentum.
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This already feels lethargic, like the game is over already
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Such a naff way for Hameed to get out, had looked untroubled
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This has just about been worth staying up all night for
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This has just about been worth staying up all night for
Sweet dreams mate
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Excellent performance. Nice to see Australia suffer in the field, this might help us later on in the series by wearing them down.
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Yes great to see us put a partnership together. The pitch has eased off a bit but these two need to dig in again tommorow I think for us not to collapse
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Class from Root and Malan, finally some fight shown.
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Only caught a little bit this morning, but excellent from Root and Malan. Oz still huge favourites but hopefully we can get through the new ball relatively unscathed and Root can go big to keep fighting. Hazelwood potentially hampered by a niggle too?
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Will be a stern test when they start again on day 4, but if Root and Malan can come through that then we could be well on the way to a defendable score. Big if though.
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Amazing from Root and Malan, great to show the Aussies some fight, this Aussie team have a history of not doing well when the pressure is on, so hopefully can continue tomorrow, the new ball definitely the key.
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Key for me has been we have fought hard and important that it wasn't solely down to Root, we need the rest of the batters to dig in and show some resilience and improved shot selection. Then we have some faint hopes of a draw but importantly will show to the Aussies they will have to fight to win the tests and England won't be a roll-over.
Going forward they need to select the right bowlers....utterly pointless to spend the last 18 months saving the key bowlers and then keep two for carrying drinks. Stokes is a concern and suspect will have to play as a batter only. Feel sorry for Leach as has limited opportunities but have concerns if we can afford to pick him.
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Pleased for Malan
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The under lights test next should see Broad and Anderson back batting could be a lottery.
For now we need to get thru this new ball tommorow
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Great to wake up and see that England have scored some runs! Had we been rolled that would have been so depressing....
But they showed some fight today and let's hope they do the same tomorrow!
Grind them into the dirt, please Malan and Root to get big daddy doubles, put 550 on the board and see the Aussies fold on the last day. Please...??
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Excellent grinding away by the England batsmen, exactly what was needed and both looking set to score tons. I really hope they don't find a soft way to get out in the morning session as an early wicket would really rejuvinate the aussie bowlers. Happy for Malan and Root doing Root things!
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Was a great effort to keep us in the game, im afraid that with the bowling lineup they selected we might need another 500 though.
Great to see Hameed take first ball so that Burns wasnt under as much pressure
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Was a great effort to keep us in the game, im afraid that with the bowling lineup they selected we might need another 500 though.
Great to see Hameed take first ball so that Burns wasnt under as much pressure
That’s a good spot @Warneymonster and is a little sign of good team work. Liked Hameed first time round and hope we stick with him. I think most of us think while Sibley had the temperament there was not enough in the locker to release pressure on himself and his partner.
Hameed seems to be a bit more of a natural scorer on the offside.
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His cover drive the ball after getting hit on the arm by Starc was brilliant. It's great, to finally not feel so nervous about watching an opening batsman for once.
I really hope that both Root and Malan settle in to that same tempo when play resumes. It was great to watch.
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Such a shame for Malan, congrats to Lyon.
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Off to bed then
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:( will give it a bit more but yeah.
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Domino effect
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3 wickets for 11 runs. The hi's and low's of test cricket.
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Ffs
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the only thing worse than englands batting is the bt feed
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True, it really is awful. However they have saved us the torture of Vaughan.
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Malan's wicket just set the tone, unfortunately.
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20 after lunch to win...I'm off to bed, shame that yesterday's batting went to waste.
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Waking up to the roller coaster ride of test cricket and ultimate highs and lows this England team seem to bring.
This sides ability to give hope and then collapse so spectacularly is remarkable.
Also how Lyon went from looking completely innocuous yesterday to getting 4 for not much today, I am really not sure. Just because there is a man at bat pad should that make that much difference?
Oh well we never win at the Gabba, Broad and Anderson back for Adelaide, and we shall see if the management's planning has been worth it.
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We lost that game with the team selection, the Toss decision and a complete inability to nut it out in tough conditions in the first dig. Had we applied ourselves in the first innings like we did on day 3 it could have been a different game.
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We began to dream and yet, such false hope.
What to do with Burns? He seems a tough cookie but not sure if he can come back from such a nightmare of a test- the fact he didn't take first ball in the second innings (which I can understand), says a lot. The sports pychologist,if they have one with them, could be busy! Same goes for Leach.
Crawley and Hameed? That would be another completely new opening partnership,great planning there.
I thought batting first on that green deck with our batting line up was very risky, but unfortunately our batting is so frail whether we bat first,second,third or fourth.
I want to see some fight in the next few tests, like they did on day three.
Maybe Warner has a broken rib? He didn't bat in the second dig. That would be a bonus.
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I’m with most others, team selection has got to be questioned.
I would like to see Silverwood step up and face the music.
I like seeing us play a spinner, but not on the greenest wicket we have seen for years in place of broad and Anderson
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Oh dear. Shame to see us fold like that on the fourth day. There was a sense of inevitability once Malan and Root fell quickly. The jury is still out on Leach, is he a test match quality spinner or not? The lack of faith to test that theory only affects his confidence and form, and to see him get targeted is only going to make things worse for him. Root didn't trust him prior to this test, and he's probably less inclined to after the test. What we are certain of, is that he's not in a position to succeed with the constant failings of the batsmen.
Burns is getting another shot in Adelaide, for sure. Out of all of our recent top order uncertainties, Burns has been the best of a bad bunch over the last 2 years. If Crawley is there with them, why is he not part of the Lions match to get some practice?
Is the Adelaide D/N test the best chance we've got to win a test, this series?
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Oh dear. Shame to see us fold like that on the fourth day. There was a sense of inevitability once Malan and Root fell quickly. The jury is still out on Leach, is he a test match quality spinner or not? The lack of faith to test that theory only affects his confidence and form, and to see him get targeted is only going to make things worse for him. Root didn't trust him prior to this test, and he's probably less inclined to after the test. What we are certain of, is that he's not in a position to succeed with the constant failings of the batsmen.
Burns is getting another shot in Adelaide, for sure. Out of all of our recent top order uncertainties, Burns has been the best of a bad bunch over the last 2 years. If Crawley is there with them, why is he not part of the Lions match to get some practice?
Is the Adelaide D/N test the best chance we've got to win a test, this series?
Burns scores a lot of ducks,something like 5 or 6 this calendar year. He's closing in on an unwanted record...
Agree they should have given the likes of Crawley some match practice, doh!
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Fined for a slow over rate as well. Wonder if the penny will ever drop...
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Selection for Adelaide will be interesting, I think Burns gets another shot, so I don't think there will be any changes from 1-7.
Broad and Anderson coming in and you would think one has to be for Leach. The other there is options -
1. Replace Woakes and the batting goes down (although I think Woakes is going to be bounced out all series).
2. Replace Robinson who was our best bowler in this test
3. Replace Wood and the attack starts to look a bit samey.
Interesting that the Aussie bowlers actually bowled more overs then ours as well.
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Think I'd give Crawley a run out next time, he'd be a better option than Burns in the cordan too.
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Selection for Adelaide will be interesting, I think Burns gets another shot, so I don't think there will be any changes from 1-7.
Broad and Anderson coming in and you would think one has to be for Leach. The other there is options -
1. Replace Woakes and the batting goes down (although I think Woakes is going to be bounced out all series).
2. Replace Robinson who was our best bowler in this test
3. Replace Wood and the attack starts to look a bit samey.
Interesting that the Aussie bowlers actually bowled more overs then ours as well.
Woakes out for me. He was the least threatening of the seamers in my opinion. I agree with you with regards to Woakes getting bounced out. They have his number, even if he is a talented batter. Woakes shouldn't have to prop up the batting anyway.
Broad and Anderson for Leach and Woakes.
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Think I'd give Crawley a run out next time, he'd be a better option than Burns in the cordan too.
I remember when he scored his double ton SKY kept going over how good he was at playing off the back foot, could be very handy on a bouncy pitch. I'm sure he will get given a go at some point in the series, especially at this rate.
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To be fair he was pretty decent on the front foot as well in that innings against PAK.
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How many of our batsmen have actually played a D/N test? Root, Malan, Stokes, Bairstow is it, right?
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Did anyone else see the list of averages for this year? The cupboard is horrifically bare. Without Root, we would be one of the worst test sides going.
Root 64.33
Malan 38.80
Buttler 29.00
Burns 28.94
Hameed 27.42
Lawrence 27.23
Woakes 26.24
Bairstow 25.07
Pope 23.93
Stokes 22.20
Sibley 19.77
2 players have scored 100s - Root and Burns. 12 players have scored 50s.
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Haven’t seen them but batting wise with this last test an exception where we picked the wrong attack and batted when we should of fielded first….it shows why the selectors have a difficult task. There just is not the quality. I think Burns has the next highest run tally over 12 months.
I doubt there has been a year since the 80 s when the top 5 averaged less, Root excepted.
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I'm sure most of us were expecting it to be a rough ride this series but blimey we look so poor now!
Small positives in Robinson looking very much at home and Wood certainly worrying them at times but not a lot else to get excited about. Hameed looked ok and nice to see an opener keeping things simple, good to see Root and Malan scoring runs but then both falling even before the new ball arrived the following day was criminal.
Whilst I agree that Leach was handed a tough job, I really don't think he is good enough at the highest level and I'd much rather see us investing time in someone like Parkinson who has a bit about him.
Whilst we are at it, the talk of taking someone like Livingstone.... why not? Would he do any worse than Pope? We are certainly lacking in true world class red ball cricketers but what we lack the most right now is belief and the swagger that goes with it, something we carry so well in white ball cricket.
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You are right!
Root 1544
Burns 492
Pope 359
Sibley 356
Lawrence 354
Bairstow 351
Buttler 219
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I'm sure most of us were expecting it to be a rough ride this series but blimey we look so poor now!
Small positives in Robinson looking very much at home and Wood certainly worrying them at times but not a lot else to get excited about. Hameed looked ok and nice to see an opener keeping things simple, good to see Root and Malan scoring runs but then both falling even before the new ball arrived the following day was criminal.
Whilst I agree that Leach was handed a tough job, I really don't think he is good enough at the highest level and I'd much rather see us investing time in someone like Parkinson who has a bit about him.
Whilst we are at it, the talk of taking someone like Livingstone.... why not? Would he do any worse than Pope? We are certainly lacking in true world class red ball cricketers but what we lack the most right now is belief and the swagger that goes with it, something we carry so well in white ball cricket.
Livingstone is by no means an awful red ball player (just shy of a 40 average in his career so no mug) but Pope's FC record is phenomenal and I think with time he will come good.
Bear in mind he was one of the only ones who contributed first innings so it's not like he's been a write off so far.
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Completely agree that Pope has the potential and really hope that he matures into what he could be. Wasn't really picking on him so much as just his performance in this test for a comparison but it's also a little sad that we re looking at 35 & 5 and saying he was one of the better performers!
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I was only talking about first innings really, I think he will get runs this series though. Expect him to get a few decent scores as it progresses.
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Hameed
Crawley
Malan
Root
Stokes
Pope
Butler
Foakes
Robinson
Broad
Anderson
That’s my team, butler just focus on batting and get that avg where it should be with a player of his ability. Root is your spinner, he doesn’t trust Leach and never has so may as well do it himself and he ain’t that bad and gives you your 5 bowlers for the next test. As much as we expect Broad and Anderson to make a difference with a pink ball under lights, I would imagine Hazelwood and Cummings will he just as effective given the conditions so going to be a very tough next test match.
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Hameed
Crawley
Malan
Root
Stokes
Pope
Butler
Foakes
Robinson
Broad
Anderson
That’s my team, butler just focus on batting and get that avg where it should be with a player of his ability. Root is your spinner, he doesn’t trust Leach and never has so may as well do it himself and he ain’t that bad and gives you your 5 bowlers for the next test. As much as we expect Broad and Anderson to make a difference with a pink ball under lights, I would imagine Hazelwood and Cummings will he just as effective given the conditions so going to be a very tough next test match.
I think batting wise this would be my lineup up to number 7, but I think it’s risky to class stokes as a bowling option now, I think if you get 10/15 overs out of him across two innings root has done extremely well. I’d go with four seamers (Jimmy, broad, Robinson & wood) and have root as my spin option.
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Hazlewood out of 2nd test at Adelaide
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Hameed
Crawley
Malan
Root
Stokes
Pope
Butler
Foakes
Robinson
Broad
Anderson
That’s my team, butler just focus on batting and get that avg where it should be with a player of his ability. Root is your spinner, he doesn’t trust Leach and never has so may as well do it himself and he ain’t that bad and gives you your 5 bowlers for the next test. As much as we expect Broad and Anderson to make a difference with a pink ball under lights, I would imagine Hazelwood and Cummings will he just as effective given the conditions so going to be a very tough next test match.
I would be tempted to do something a bit left field.
Hameed
Burns
Malan
Root
Stokes
Pope
Lawrence
Butler
Robinson
Anderson
Broad
Burns gets a last chance, with his technique he seems to either get none or lots so I think is worth another go.
Then I would basically play another batter, Lawrence, instead of Woakes, so Root, Stokes and Lawrence (who bowled extremely well for the Lions in Oz) to make up the rest of the overs. And the obvious benefit of the extra batter in our frail batting line up.
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I would be tempted to do something a bit left field.
Hameed
Burns
Malan
Root
Stokes
Pope
Lawrence
Butler
Robinson
Anderson
Broad
Burns gets a last chance, with his technique he seems to either get none or lots so I think is worth another go.
Then I would basically play another batter, Lawrence, instead of Woakes, so Root, Stokes and Lawrence (who bowled extremely well for the Lions in Oz) to make up the rest of the overs. And the obvious benefit of the extra batter in our frail batting line up.
I appreciate the creativity here. Two spin option albeit part-timers, batting heavy. I think this could be a day/night test specific team as the seamers are all right arm medium-fast and that could get a bit samey as mentioned above somewhere. Saying that, they can all move the ball well, hence why I say it might be a good day/night team.
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Going in with 4 bowlers and one of them Stokes, if aus bat well we’ll need to replace all 4 for the remaining tests!
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Any good in with 4 bowlers and one of them Stokes, if aus bat well we’ll need to replace all 4 for the remaining tests!
Appreciate what you're saying but the Pink Ball tests historically have lower scores and this Aussie batting line up can be got at definitely if we take the chances that come.
The Aussies actually bowled more overs than us in the 1st test, as showed in Hazelwood's injury.
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The other thing is if we will play a spinner or Root will fill in some overs.
The day night games spinners have played a part and it’s impossible for the Aussies to leave out Lyon.
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Stokes should be considered a specialist batsman for the next game in my view.
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I think as it's a day night it's more important to go with 4 seamers, rather than 3 and an extra bat. Personally i think Wood or Woakes would give you much more value than Lawrence (respectively new to test cricket) would with the bat and a few fill in overs. Root can do that job, even Malan if desperate.
Hameed
Burns (just as i don't see anyone else, only Crawley)
Malan
Root
Stokes
Pope
Butler
Wood (or Woakes)
Robinson
Broad
Anderson
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I think as it's a day night it's more important to go with 4 seamers, rather than 3 and an extra bat. Personally i think Wood or Woakes would give you much more value than Lawrence (respectively new to test cricket) would with the bat and a few fill in overs. Root can do that job, even Malan if desperate.
Hameed
Burns (just as i don't see anyone else, only Crawley)
Malan
Root
Stokes
Pope
Butler
Wood (or Woakes)
Robinson
Broad
Anderson
TBF I hadn't considered Malan's possible fill in overs.
The extra batsman would be a radical step, something a bit out there and 4 seamers is the far more likely team.
Australian team likely to be Richardson for Hazelwood the only change.
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TBF I hadn't considered Malan's possible fill in overs.
The extra batsman would be a radical step, something a bit out there and 4 seamers is the far more likely team.
Australian team likely to be Richardson for Hazelwood the only change.
Poor Neser, probably wondering what he needs to do to make his test debut.
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What is remarkable given Silverwood has spent two years banging on ad nauseum about preparation for this series is that there is no sense whatsoever from the first test of being in anyway prepared for this.
Leach is a classic example. It is always going to be a tough ask to fit in a guy who doesn't bat and isn't a great fielder when he doesn't take first innings wickets, bowl well to left handers or keep the runs down when not taking wickets. How he suddenly drops into the team on a green seamer is beyond comprehension.
Second test looks a straight swap of Anderson and Broad for Woakes and Leach. I don't rate Burns at this level and he is the worst slip fielder I can remember seeing regularly fielding in an international cordon (plus ducking out of facing the first ball in the second innings isn't a great statement) but I struggle to see how you can drop an opner one game into the series.
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I have questions:
1) Is Silverwood an International quality coach
2) Is there really any better option to Burns opening at the moment?
3) Is Root a better spin option than Leach?
4) Should we play Stokes as a batter only at 5?
5) I Pope really the real deal, or looking at the averages, do you pick Lawrence to come good and the second part-time spinner?
Next test I would go -
Hameed
Burns
Malan
Root
Stokes
Lawrence
Butler
Woakes
Robinson
Broad
Anderson
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I rate Lawrence but picking a batsman based on his ability to send down some part time tweakers off the back of a dismal batting performance is pretty bold.
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I have questions:
1) Is Silverwood an International quality coach
2) Is there really any better option to Burns opening at the moment?
3) Is Root a better spin option than Leach?
4) Should we play Stokes as a batter only at 5?
5) I Pope really the real deal, or looking at the averages, do you pick Lawrence to come good and the second part-time spinner?
1) No
2) No
3) Yes
4) No - Easily forgotten that without any match fitness he had near instant impact removing Warner.... with a no ball admittedly
5) Not sure yet
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Bolder than picking Pope - who has really flattered to deceive, and offers one-dimension options at the mo?
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I really am unsure with Pope..... and to complicate things, I really like the unflustered way Lawrence goes about his business. Pretty much a 50/50 for me personally but Pope is not doing himself any favours every time he goes into Pope mode and scares the bejeezus out of all of us.
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I have questions:
1) Is Silverwood an International quality coach
2) Is there really any better option to Burns opening at the moment?
3) Is Root a better spin option than Leach?
4) Should we play Stokes as a batter only at 5?
5) I Pope really the real deal, or looking at the averages, do you pick Lawrence to come good and the second part-time spinner?
Next test I would go -
Hameed
Burns
Malan
Root
Stokes
Lawrence
Butler
Woakes
Robinson
Broad
Anderson
1. Absolutely not. I’d rather see Peter Moores have a third attempt than continue with Silverwood, and his jobs for the boys, take the credit when we win/hide away when we lose act.
2. Yes. Crawley. Plus Crawley can actually catch.
3. Yes. It is obvious that Root doesn’t trust Leach. It’s very rare that the opposition go after Root when he bowls. If we were to play an out-and-our spinner again during this series I would call up Parky.
4. No. Controversial opinion alert… I think Stokes has to bowl to be worthy of a place in the team. Yes he’s had some fabulous innings over the years, but there hasn’t been so many of them that he is indispensable as a batsman only.
5. At first I thought Pope looked the real deal, but I’m now starting to think he may be style over substance. That said, if we see Lawrence back in an England shirt then we really have hit rock bottom.
2nd test team:
Hameed
Crawley
Malan
Root
Pope
Stokes
Buttler
Robinson
Wood/Bess
Broad
Anderson
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A Lions game for Pope might be no bad thing. Bracey scored 100 for them this week, and Foakes got 70 odd.
Bairstow, Crawley, Lawrence are all higher in the pecking order though I guess. I don't think Bracey would be a bad shout.
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A Lions game for Pope might be no bad thing. Bracey scored 100 for them this week, and Foakes got 70 odd.
Bairstow, Crawley, Lawrence are all higher in the pecking order though I guess. I don't think Bracey would be a bad shout.
I think it's so important to select batsmen on form. Get Bracey and Foakes in as soon as possible. Not sure where they would bat, mind you!! Can anyone else open except for Crawley? Lees and Yates are on tour, but I don't know much about them.
Even pausing to make changes until after the 2nd test could be too late. Im sure the stats of teams recovering to win a series after going down 0-2 are damning.
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I think it's so important to select batsmen on form. Get Bracey and Foakes in as soon as possible. Not sure where they would bat, mind you!! Can anyone else open except for Crawley? Lees and Yates are on tour, but I don't know much about them.
Even pausing to make changes until after the 2nd test could be too late. Im sure the stats of teams recovering to win a series after going down 0-2 are damning.
Pope reminds me so much of Bell in the early days, very frenetic sometimes and if he calms down can play some wonderful strokes, he may end up like Bell being in and out of the team before feeling settled and more experienced with his game etc....
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Is Ollie Pope the new Mark Ramprakashor Graeme Hick? Sounds like this discussion has already started.
I think Ollie Pope will come good this Ashes. I like Ollie hence why on first name terms with him.
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Easy to forget the struggles Pope has had with injury, he's missed a lot of cricket and had to come back from some pretty serious injuries already but he's still got one of the best FC averages around.
I would back him to come good at 6 and potentially move up in future but he needs to be backed by England management. Have to imagine he would have quite a few more runs if he was batting in a team with a better top order too.
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They will not go outside the selected squad unless there are injuries.
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Is Ollie Pope the new Mark Ramprakashor Graeme Hick? Sounds like this discussion has already started.
I think Ollie Pope will come good this Ashes. I like Ollie hence why on first name terms with him.
I really want Pope to succeed. Batting him at 6 for England like he does for Surrey should be working miracles for him. One gripe I had with management was their temptation to play batsmen in their unnatural order. In theory, at 6 Pope should face an old ball, with a score on the board and could capitalize on it. We know that barely happens with this team.
I think he'll come good too, but to play devil's advocate, he's had a fair shot. He's only played 9 less tests than Burns, 1 less than Sibley and 6 more than Crawley. All of which have had their selection questioned playing a more difficult role, and have been used as a scapegoat for the teams multitude of issues. Pope is still in this team based on potential. Will potential win you a test in the Ashes?
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Is Ollie Pope the new Mark Ramprakashor Graeme Hick? Sounds like this discussion has already started.
I think Ollie Pope will come good this Ashes. I like Ollie hence why on first name terms with him.
I think he is the real deal in that middle order slot, Crawley I think will make it too he has an all round game.
The problem is if Crawley or Lawrence play in this series it will be on the back of virtually no games since the end of our season. The option of going back to Bairstow is possible but not favourite without some of us on here…
Burns is a tricky one because neither Pope Lawrence or Crawley can bat that high.
The only thing we might do is if Burns keeps failing Malan could open leaving a slot for Bairstow or one of the young batters.
But I can see Burns playing the whole series as we are short on options.
I actually think Crawley may have the game for bouncier pitches…potentially.
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I have questions:
1) Is Silverwood an International quality coach
2) Is there really any better option to Burns opening at the moment?
3) Is Root a better spin option than Leach?
4) Should we play Stokes as a batter only at 5?
5) I Pope really the real deal, or looking at the averages, do you pick Lawrence to come good and the second part-time spinner?
1) Big no. Talks a good game. Actions speak differently.
2) Leach. He has rich history as an opener, and also in hanging around as an 11, wearing out the bowlers.
3) Yes, because Leach been royally fcked over by Silverwood in the run up. So Leach in as a batsman only.
4) No. The opposite. Stokes is the messiah. Get him in to bat, bowl, keep, 2nd slip, deep cover. and manage.
5) Batting Stokes at 5 & 6 is the best plan obvs. If the oppo have issues with that, then send Stokes round to sort it.
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4. No. Controversial opinion alert… I think Stokes has to bowl to be worthy of a place in the team. Yes he’s had some fabulous innings over the years, but there hasn’t been so many of them that he is indispensable as a batsman only.
You've seen the rest of our batting, right?
I mean, I get the point you're heading towards but really, would you pick Pope ahead of him? Bairstow? Crawley? Who?
It's not like the question of whether he bowls affects the number of front line bowlers picked - it's always four, a keeper, Ben and five others. Only thing is him bowling makes it a bit easier to play a front line spinner.
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Stokes just sconed Root in the nets, looked pretty sharp! I know he has to practice but possibly injuring our only batter might not be very wise!
https://twitter.com/TheBarmyArmy/status/1470666145212551175?t=CCyK2SjscPzMPEY3CF4FFg&s=19
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Root has not played fast bowling at all well but at least Stokes can still get it through at a reasonable pace.
He will need to bowl I think as despite the last match we need a spinner in the day night game.
Possible Root will do it but I think unlikely myself
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If the Aussies are fielding as many left handed batsmen as last time I'd be happier with Root bowling than Leach.
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If the Aussies are fielding as many left handed batsmen as last time I'd be happier with Root bowling than Leach.
I think Leach is the best spinner we have despite the last game where they got hold of him a bit.
I was thinking if Bess is in the squad I’m not sure
But I guess if he is that is an option.
Again…Bess has a mixed time so far in games, can bowl well and bat but also can send down some rubbish
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i'd be going with root as the spinner for a day night game, cant see many overs of spin needed and turning it away from the lefties has to be a good thing. would give us a much stronger bowling line up bringing in broad and anderson for woakes and leach
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Stokes just sconed Root in the nets, looked pretty sharp! I know he has to practice but possibly injuring our only batter might not be very wise!
https://twitter.com/TheBarmyArmy/status/1470666145212551175?t=CCyK2SjscPzMPEY3CF4FFg&s=19
That's so quick! Insane. How does one even react to it unless anticipating it on the back foot.
I am surprised to see that Root's reaction to this was so delayed.
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That bumper looks lethal, he needs to do that in the next test!!
It must be so hard to face at that pace not having a clue what is coming down at you.
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Not much point worrying about the bowling when the batting lineup looks unlikely to break 300 at any point in the series.
We've had a poor batting lineup for the best part of the last decade - by far the worst in living memory.
Not the individual batsmen's fault - they're a mixture of white ball specialists effectively trying their hand at a totally different sport and unsurprisingly failing, or bog standard county pros who in any other decade would be absolutely nowhere near international contention.
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Not much point worrying about the bowling when the batting lineup looks unlikely to break 300 at any point in the series.
We've had a poor batting lineup for the best part of the last decade - by far the worst in living memory.
Not the individual batsmen's fault - they're a mixture of white ball specialists effectively trying their hand at a totally different sport and unsurprisingly failing, or bog standard county pros who in any other decade would be absolutely nowhere near international contention.
I would say the batting line up of the 90’s was worse but not far off. Here is a question are they just not good enough or are they just really A) out of form B) really low on confidence C) coaching just nit developing them enough for the step up for test match cricket
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I would not agree our batting line up of the 90’s as a whole was worse than we have now but you could make an argument either way for the sake of reason and there would not be much in it.
I would discount coaching and look at the single biggest difference
In my opinion it’s the sheer number and emphasis on one day cricket with the County Championship shoe in to the unglamorous part of the season
If you look at the 90’s players like Gooch Atherton and Smith would have played enough for their Counties.
The schedule of one day cricket now makes that impossible in my view.
Some of us might not like it but something has to give and that’s preparing to bat in test matches for the best players- who also play one day cricket
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I would not agree our batting line up of the 90’s as a whole was worse than we have now but you could make an argument either way for the sake of reason and there would not be much in it.
I would discount coaching and look at the single biggest difference
In my opinion it’s the sheer number and emphasis on one day cricket with the County Championship shoe in to the unglamorous part of the season
If you look at the 90’s players like Gooch Atherton and Smith would have played enough for their Counties.
The schedule of one day cricket now makes that impossible in my view.
Some of us might not like it but something has to give and that’s preparing to bat in test matches for the best players- who also play one day cricket
So simple question do the ECB need to break the red ball test side away from one day side ie just specialist red ball players that take this over white ball cricket. You may not get the glamour names but those that are specifically picked for 5 day cricket
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I would say the batting line up of the 90’s was worse but not far off. Here is a question are they just not good enough or are they just really A) out of form B) really low on confidence C) coaching just nit developing them enough for the step up for test match cricket
The batting line up of the 1990s was unquestionable worse and by quite some margin. I would like England to be a better side now but always view it with the context that we have in recent times been the lowest ranked test side in the world.
Personally I don't see that white ball cricket impacts on the performance of the test side save for those tours when players are being rotated. If you look at the ICC batsman rankings, very few are red ball specialists. In my view, an ability to face the world's best bowlers and the capacity to cope with the pressure of international cricket are more important than playing more red ball domestic cricket
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I don't agree about the 90s line up. Atherton, Stewart, Smith, Hick, Hussain, Ramprakash would have done as well as the 2010/11 generation of they had had the same contracts, set up and management. Then it was a problem of inconsistent selection and really really tough opposition, now it is the simple fact that our players only play first class cricket in the shoulder months. There is a reason why our best players are all number sixes...
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Australia name their XI - as suspected only change is Richardson in for Hazelwood, Warner is fit.
For once I would like to see us name our XI early and not wait for the toss. It just looks like we are unsure at what we are doing etc.... so either we actually still undecided, which is ridiculous because the pitch isn't changing overnight and surely they must of told the players who is playing. Or don't want to tell anyone the team for another reason? Maybe they think the Aussies are changing any plans based on a days notice, which is a bit silly.
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Burns, Hameed, Malan, Root (c), Stokes, Pope, Buttler (wk), Woakes, Robinson, Leach, Broad, Anderson.
Wood Rested. Broad v Leach?
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Broad will obviously play. You have to love the variety in a bowling line-up consisting of Stokes, Woakes, Robinson, Broad and Anderson. Perhaps they think right arm fast medium will take wickets by boring Australia to death.
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Burns, Hameed, Malan, Root (c), Stokes, Pope, Buttler (wk), Woakes, Robinson, Leach, Broad, Anderson.
Wood Rested. Broad v Leach?
This is exactly what I mean, surely they have made a decision? They can't be leaving it to the morning of the test to tell either Leach or one of the seamers if they are playing? The pitch won't change that much overnight.
In George Dobell's article -
Although England are yet to make a final decision on the inclusion of Leach, the Adelaide ‘curator’, Damian Hough, has no doubt he should play.
“I think it would be a mistake not to play a frontline spinner,” he said. “History says the pitch will spin. Nathan Lyon has always played a role out there. We believe spin at Adelaide needs to play a part. It has done previously and it still should.”
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Broad will obviously play. You have to love the variety in a bowling line-up consisting of Stokes, Woakes, Robinson, Broad and Anderson. Perhaps they think right arm fast medium will take wickets by boring Australia to death.
This post bored me lol.A left arm medium bowling machine option would be useful.
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I think England will stick pick a spinner with Wood rested and Anderson back.
Then maybe Broad for Woakes but not sure that’s a straightforward call.
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Broad is likely to miss out.
You cannot go into this test with two guys in their mid to late 30s who haven't played any cricket.
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Equally, you can't drop Robinson after how he bowled or have someone other than Woakes batting 8.
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If they are that worried about Leach, they should just pick Bess and be done with it as he bats a bit. Stop messing Leach around for goodness sake.
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Bowling isn't the issue; expect them to be run into the ground again...
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Wouldn't want to be bowling on the 2nd day, forecast says almost 40c :(
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Bowling isn't the issue; expect them to be run into the ground again...
It is, its just a different sort of issue and not as big an issue as the batting. But it's still an issue.
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Guess they want to make the call as late as possible as conditions potentially effect out 11, unsure what changes in conditions would have to occur before the Aussies considered a change to that 11z
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Sensing a lot of England confidence on this thread.
Predictions for this test then chaps?
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Sensing a lot of England confidence on this thread.
Predictions for this test then chaps?
A lot happier at any venue when Anderson plays. We need luck as under lights could be horrible if we are batting.
I also want Leach to play despite the last game. We are not that good to get away with bad selections.
Brain says another defeat, heart says Root and Malan showed the way last game.
I think it’s not out of order to want a Burns 50 in this game
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A lot happier at any venue when Anderson plays. We need luck as under lights could be horrible if we are batting.
I also want Leach to play despite the last game. We are not that good to get away with bad selections.
Brain says another defeat, heart says Root and Malan showed the way last game.
I think it’s not out of order to want a Burns 50 in this game
Ashes shock: Leach picked and Broad in for Woakes. Aus to bat first and get 367 A/O, England to get 324. England to be left chasing 246 and we'll get them 6 or 7 down.
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Hope we lose the toss so the press can't have a field day at Root on getting it right/wrong. That being said, not totally against us having a bowl
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No matter who bats first:
Australia to get 350 - 400.
England to scrape together 200-250.
Australia to thrash a quick 200/250.
England to be bowled out for less than 150.
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If Broad and Anderson don't both play here it will make the team selection at Brisbane even more wretched than it did at the time.
I do fear for England here. The conditions in the first test could not have been any better for us and we squandered that advantage. There seems to be a narrative that pink ball tests favour England which isn't grounded in actual results. If we get lucky batting and bowling at the right times we could get a result but without Archer or Stone our attack looks too one-dimensional for these conditions when Wood is rested
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No matter who bats first:
Australia to get 350 - 400.
England to scrape together 200-250.
Australia to thrash a quick 200/250.
England to be bowled out for less than 150.
Solid prediction here. I really hope there are some actual twists and turns in this series and it isn't just England getting rolled every game.
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Ashes shock: Leach picked and Broad in for Woakes. Aus to bat first and get 367 A/O, England to get 324. England to be left chasing 246 and we'll get them 6 or 7 down.
No matter who bats first:
Australia to get 350 - 400.
England to scrape together 200-250.
Australia to thrash a quick 200/250.
England to be bowled out for less than 150.
Poor predictions. Not specific enough. Who makes the runs, who takes the wickets, how many dropped catches? ;)
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Cummins out after coming into contact with a COVID case. Sheesh
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If I'm allowed to play that game...
Malan to be unexpectedly good.
Root to score 1 100 and a 50 or two.
Pope to score 70 and then do nothing.
Hameed to score 2 50s in the series.
Burns to either score a 100 or be dropped.
Stokes to have a poor series.
Two of Wood/Anderson/Broad to break down.
Leach to get smashed and be replaced by Bess.
Warner to really annoy everyone and have a great series.
Smith to not do that much.
Not that I am pessimistic or anything. :( :( :(
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So now Smith is Captain and Neser plays! I know a lot of people rate both Richardson and Neser very highly. Really excited to see them play!
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What a catch Jos! Brilliant bowling
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God this over rate is awful
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Warner should be banned from wearing gloves with velcro fastening.
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Jos now dropping a dolly, ah
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Jos now dropping a dolly, ah
You do not wanna do that
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Seriously, what sort of tactics are these? Really poor from England.
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Seriously, what sort of tactics are these? Really poor from England.
It's quite simple really
Dry up the runs, make them bat ages for what they get, bore them, take your chances when they come
It's how India beat them, slow the run rate and make them work hard
Problem is we drop too many chances and the over rate isn't good enough to get the new ball under lights later
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Bowling's decent, but nowhere near threatening enough.
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We haven't bowled badly, but everything feels a bit confused. The approach to the series in both tests so far has been odd in selection, strategy, and tactics. Hoping for a sudden massive batting collapse but you can just see what is going to happen here.
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This is so insipid
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Let’s bowl without purpose for 5 hours straight, in the hope that it might nibble around a bit in the last hour under lights.
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Only listening on the radio but they've said England have bowled well early and beat the bat, but it hasn't done much since. Said they've tried a few funky plans but it sounded like its the scenario where your spinner would tie up one end, so you could attack at the other end with pace. Without a spinner able to do that, it limits the plans surely.
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Only listening on the radio but they've said England have bowled well early and beat the bat, but it hasn't done much since. Said they've tried a few funky plans but it sounded like its the scenario where your spinner would tie up one end, so you could attack at the other end with pace. Without a spinner able to do that, it limits the plans surely.
Completely agree, at times you need to sit in and keep an end tight to build pressure and rotate your quicks. Aussies clearly had plan to disrupt Leach from ball one last test and not sure he will be picked again this series
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Might just turn off at this rate
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Haha! Thanks Huss!
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Davey... Why?!
Also, Smith looks so out of touch. 2013 vibes from before he was good
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Two years of planning and this is what England have produced, you do start to despair a bit...
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Yes quite right. We are cooked in this game
Everyone’s right arm over and it will spin later
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Robinson not good enough to take the new ball under the lights? Maybe if England new how to treat spinner properly...
Root is not a captain.
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Can only go by BBC text but seems we have bowled short of a length most innings.
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Can we bin Buttler? That is absolutely atrocious
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Now that's a sitter
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A lot of us have said it before. Foakes don’t drop straightforward ones and if averaging 30 is needed he can do that
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That might well be one of the worst drops ever.
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A lot of us have said it before. Foakes don’t drop straightforward ones and if averaging 30 is needed he can do that
And just scored a 70 odd against a decent Aussie A attack...
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How are England so bad at catching. It's just embarrassing really.
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Total lapse of concentration which you can’t afford, about time we went with a proper keeper. Hopefully this is silverwood’s last series as coach !
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Two years of planning and this is what England have produced, you do start to despair a bit...
You ought to have said two years of planning and England have brought more or less the same side, but with lots more miles on the clock, a keeper with teflon hands and no sign of James Vince's three covers drives before nicking off to alleviate the gloom.
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Today all stemmed from getting the team selection wrong in Brisbane, Leach shouldn't have played there and Broad should have, Warner therefore doesn't melt him around when it's not turning and they have more confidence to select Leach on a wicket which is obviously going to spin.
If they are not going to pick Leach then Wood should have played instead of Robinson. You have to have variety in the attack. Stokes short pitched bowling has looked our best weapon but he can't do it all himself and he has to bat as well.
Bowling dry is a fair enough tactic but you have to then hold the chances when they come and also get through the overs, England missed a trick not having the new ball under lights.
Buttler should have caught both chances he had, but I think we all know that!
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Shane warne “ you got to feel sorry for butler, his hardly made a mistake today, everything’s gone in the middle of the gloves”
Sorry mate that may be the case except the two he dropped of which one of caught 95/100 and the other 100/100 at this level. Back to it I just don’t rate Butler at test level at all. His not dynamic with the bat in test cricket, his avg is just that average and his glove work is again average and not in the top 5 keepers gloves for gloves in England.
Can see Aus declaring tomorrow even if they only have 375-400 to bowl at England under lights and that will be a real test for the batters
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Today all stemmed from getting the team selection wrong in Brisbane, Leach shouldn't have played there and Broad should have, Warner therefore doesn't melt him around when it's not turning and they have more confidence to select Leach on a wicket which is obviously going to spin.
If they are not going to pick Leach then Wood should have played instead of Robinson. You have to have variety in the attack. Stokes short pitched bowling has looked our best weapon but he can't do it all himself and he has to bat as well.
Bowling dry is a fair enough tactic but you have to then hold the chances when they come and also get through the overs, England missed a trick not having the new ball under lights.
Buttler should have caught both chances he had, but I think we all know that!
Yes totally agree with this. Leach got chucked in on a green seamer when either one or both Broad and Anderson should of played. He then had no runs to work with.
We are not good enough to make mistakes in selection and still expect to compete. We need all decisions off field right to give us a chance.
I’m forming the view myself Silverwood is out of his depth. Root needs help and he is not getting any.
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For all the talk of not needing a top keeper in Aussie conditions like you do in the subcontinent, this could be a very different game if Buttler had held Labuschagne on 20 odd. Yes, he took a great catch earlier but just not good enough on the other two chances.
Have to think that Foakes standing up to the stumps while a spinner bowls would also give the bowler far more confidence than Buttler does.
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Bit harsh this Buttler bashing. He first catch was as good as it gets, second opportunity was a tough ask, third was a sitter. For him, in balance that was an average day and still more than deserves his place.
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Bit harsh this Buttler bashing. He first catch was as good as it gets, second opportunity was a tough ask, third was a sitter. For him, in balance that was an average day and still more than deserves his place.
As a keeper that second one was fairly easy at his level and as for deserving his place, as a batsmen maybe but when he is at best the third best keeper in the country and that’s being generous, it’s not really. Let’s be honest his red ball stats are avg at best. The bloke is world class in white ball but county class in red ball. Foakes is world class with the gloves and with a very limited teat record so far not bad with the bat either when he has played.
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Bit harsh this Buttler bashing. He first catch was as good as it gets, second opportunity was a tough ask, third was a sitter. For him, in balance that was an average day and still more than deserves his place.
I think the majority of us are Butler fans and nothing but in awe of his one day record for us, it’s thrilling to watch and match winning.
The second chance I think a good keeper would expect to take that, the difference with a proper keeper is they just don’t drop sitters.
In England our bowlers create enough chances for it not to matter, in hot conditions drops hurt.
Foakes is the best by miles and a good batsman, if Butler was outstanding with the bat in red ball it might be different-but him and Bairstow average about the same.
I think Jos will concentrate on one day cricket after this tour myself.
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I think I'm at the point now where I don't trust us to pick the strongest test side, and I don't really believe that we even have our strongest squad. In messing players around, we make things worse too.
I like Buttler but he has never exactly set the world alight in test cricket, has he? He did okay last year, but he gets in the side based on his white ball skills. Should he be?
We need to start planning for 4/5/6 years down the line, look at the talent pipeline, and rebuild. I feel sorry for Root in that he will probably never really have the chance to play in a top England side, but at least he can transition the team to the future.
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Bit harsh this Buttler bashing. He first catch was as good as it gets, second opportunity was a tough ask, third was a sitter. For him, in balance that was an average day and still more than deserves his place.
Sorry but as a keeper of 30 years I can tell you that, the 1st catch is outstanding, the other 2 drops are dreadful, especially the 2nd one.
His worth to the team is simply going down, if the runs don't come then Foakes has to play surely.
It's just a shame they have sent him and most of the Lions home.
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How many has he dropped in the last 18 odd months? Had some howlers in the home summer as well, particularly when keeping to spin
Anyway, alarm set for 3:45am, ready for more misery
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Bit harsh this Buttler bashing. He first catch was as good as it gets, second opportunity was a tough ask, third was a sitter. For him, in balance that was an average day and still more than deserves his place.
Not having that; the second one was not that difficult because the ball had np pace on it. Forget Foakes, we all know he is just a bit special, I reckon all the other keepers in England contention (Bairstow, Billings) would have swallowed it.
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Sorry but as a keeper of 30 years I can tell you that, the 1st catch is outstanding, the other 2 drops are dreadful, especially the 2nd one.
His worth to the team is simply going down, if the runs don't come then Foakes has to play surely.
It's just a shame they have sent him and most of the Lions home.
Ok, but when did you keep in a Test Match in front of a hostile Australian crowd in oppressive heat , under lights with a pink ball? Not quite the same really.
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Another no ball wicket. This is ridiculous now
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My humour is starting to fail me.
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Thank God
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That's a beauty from Stokes
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Proper peach. Not sure it's game back on just yet
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Ok, but when did you keep in a Test Match in front of a hostile Australian crowd in oppressive heat , under lights with a pink ball? Not quite the same really.
Not sure about oppressive heat yesterday, it was about 30 degrees, under lights with a coloured ball, it's been a while for me TBH and obviously never in a test match 😉
But if you are selected for England you should be able to deal with all of that and catch them simply as that.
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Absolute crap again then
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This has innings defeat written all over it.
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I'm changing my prediction. Either Burns or Hameed will go big and we will post a good total.
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I love Woakes, but this just proves he is garbage outside of England
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Also this side it appalling when it comes to their fielding
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Century for Woakes. Well played sir.
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I'd love to be positive, but this could get painful. Aussie bowlers under lights with a new ball and their tails up after whacking us around the park! 😧
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Neser and Starc making our bowling attack, supposedly our biggest strength, look futile. It’s gonna be a longer series than we thought
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Is this the end of burns for the tour ?
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Oh dear. Burns out. He’s going to need a big 2nd innings score to keep his place ahead of Crawley for the 3rd test.
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Is this the end of burns for the tour ?
I think there are three at least who need to go for the next game - Burns, Buttler and Woakes are all being shown up here.
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Arghhh......this is so depressingly predictable.
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I think there are three at least who need to go for the next game - Burns, Buttler and Woakes are all being shown up here.
Who would you replace them with ? Crawley for burns ? Bairstow for butler? Remember foakes has gone home and wood for woakes?
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Hameed out. Awful shot.
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Hameed out. Awful shot.
Shocking shot ! Total gift
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This has innings defeat written all over it. Root needs to score at least 150.
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Who would you replace them with ? Crawley for burns ? Bairstow for butler? Remember foakes has gone home and wood for woakes?
Hadn't realised Foakes had gone home because he did feature in my masterplan. :(
That being the case, I'd be going Crawley for Burns (mentally shot, can't catch) and Wood and Leach for Woakes and whoever needs a rest. As keeper/bats, I'd go Bairstow over Buttler but that forgets that the reasons goldenballs gets away with his iron gloves is because he brings a semblance of order to the team management group so that one is a toucher call.
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Saved by lightning. Ah.
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This has innings defeat written all over it. Root needs to score at least 150.
Completely agree.
Burns goes for Crawley.....Wood for Woakes but not sure I can see Leach coming back, we need a spinner but he was smashed last test and what has it done to his confidence?
If I was a betting man I would lump on a 5-0 to the Aussies
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Love cricket.
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I hope Malan and Root do what they did last time and properly stick at it through 2+ sessions, highly doubtful but if it doesn't happen then we are doomed.
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we let them get away today, shouldnt have got past 410 but we didnt bowl well enough at the tail again. Burns needs to be 'rested' otherwise the aussies will destroy any confidence he has left by the end of this series.
on the upside, pitch looks flat so hopefully we can bat for a draw
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I would say the batting line up of the 90’s was worse but not far off. Here is a question are they just not good enough or are they just really A) out of form B) really low on confidence C) coaching just nit developing them enough for the step up for test match cricket
You'd take this lot over the likes of Gooch, Atherton, Smith, Hussain, Thorpe, and Stewart? Really?
Even the relative "failures" of the 90s, guys like Ramprakash, Crawley, and Hick, were a class above Burns, Sibley, Hameed, Malan, Bairstow, etc etc
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So simple question do the ECB need to break the red ball test side away from one day side ie just specialist red ball players that take this over white ball cricket. You may not get the glamour names but those that are specifically picked for 5 day cricket
The entire setup from county age group upwards is focused on producing the best T20 cricketers possible and has been for a decade now - Back in the late 2000s, as CAG coaches we were *instructed* by the ECB to prioritise teaching kids white balls skills and not to worry about traditional red ball skills - they were seen as fuddy duddy and old fashioned. Young batsmen are expected to be able to score quickly and hit powerfully on flat tracks - if the pitch does a bit and all the kids get bowled playing across the line, then its criticised for being a bad pitch, rather than the kids being criticised for having poor technique. I was talking to an umpire about this last night who had also observed this.
Pace bowlers are expected to be rapid and have multiple variations, the ability to swing and seam the ball both ways is no longer a priority. Two-man boundary catch routines are now practiced significantly more often than standard slip catches.
So it shouldn't be a surprise when the system produces lots of good T20 players and no good test cricketers, and as long as this system is in place, we will never produce any. The ECB know this but don't care. White ball is the priority now.
Of course there are still red ball specialists around the county game - but these are generally players who aren't quite good enough to play white ball cricket and so focus on red ball as a fall back option. With all due respect they're generally just not that good.
The current England team is a mixture of talented cricketers who in another era might have had good test careers - Buttler, Bairstow etc - but who have focused on white ball cricket to the detriment of their red ball abilities, and red ball specialists like Burns, Sibley, Hameed, etc, who are honestly just not that good, and 20 years ago would have been county journeymen without a glimmer of a chance of an England call up. (I might also put Robinson and Leach into this category)
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Coaching standards at youth level are diabolical. ECB has prioritised quantity of coaches over quality in order to justify taking the Sky money. It's a bad attempt to redress fall in participation rates caused by taking the game off terrestrial television. One with consequences.
That's before we start talking about county cricket
scheduling (again).
It would possibly help if people stopped referring to cricket as 'red-ball cricket'?
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Burns, Sibley and Hameed would have been better players twenty years ago.
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If the ECB’s mandate is for coaches to produce rapid bowlers with multiple variations, why is it that we churn out endless 80mph right arm seamers? Because that’s exactly the type of bowling that gets wickets on ECB mandated green tops in county cricket.
What I would give for a rapid 90mph+ left arm speedster. The Aussies always seem to have one coming through (Tait, then Johnson, now Starc). Their population and participation levels are a fraction of ours, so the issue obviously lies in the administration of the game.
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Robinson a county journeyman? Have you been watching any England cricket this year @SLA ?
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(https://i.postimg.cc/WhG7CgNz/Screenshot-20211217-150322-Google.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WhG7CgNz)
I will say this Ashes was lost from the ball 1 when Burns got himself out the way he did!
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Shaun Tait bowled with his right-arm. He took five wickets in 3 Test matches at an average of 60.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/WhG7CgNz/Screenshot-20211217-150322-Google.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WhG7CgNz)
I will say this Ashes was lost from the ball 1 when Burns got himself out the way he did!
You don't think professional sportsmen are a little more resilient?
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Well that was terrible. :(
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(https://i.postimg.cc/WhG7CgNz/Screenshot-20211217-150322-Google.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WhG7CgNz)
I will say this Ashes was lost from the ball 1 when Burns got himself out the way he did!
Wasn't the ideal start though,really now was it? Pretty emphatic and disheartening to lose your opening bat, castled embarrassingly first ball of the entire series.
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Hadn't realised Foakes had gone home because he did feature in my masterplan. :(
Any information on why he is back in England?
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We have just been docked more WTC points for slow over rate, we are better off not playing!
Also in other news.... a bloke was seen holding up a sign saying 'Rory Burns Can't Bat' at the darts! 🤣
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You don't think professional sportsmen are a little more resilient?
He didn't want first nut again today either against Starc. Got him in the 3rd over anyway. He's done for this series.
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Interesting comments from Cook who said he should make technical changes halfway thru a series…which perhaps is a last chance to get some runs. He’s done ok since he came in but maybe England do have an option.
I think he will play the whole series myself but he does get a lot of low scores then a 50
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Am I sick in the head for still wanting to get up at 3:30am tomorrow
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We have just been docked more WTC points for slow over rate, we are better off not playing!
Also in other news.... a bloke was seen holding up a sign saying 'Rory Burns Can't Bat' at the darts! 🤣
😂😂😂
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Any information on why he is back in England?
The Lions tour is over. He was never in the Ashes squad.
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Am I sick in the head for still wanting to get up at 3:30am tomorrow
Depriving yourself of sleep to watch this is the England cricket fan equivalent of self harming, probably still going to do as well though :)
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So can we build a batting unit around Root and Malan?
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Finally a session worth getting up at 3:30am for
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Let the misery resume
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Sigh, beyond predictable
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The catching is just such a difference between the 2 teams, let alone the batting and bowling
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God I hate this sport.
What the hell was that from Pope!!???
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Absolute donkeys
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It was so predictable what I was going to wake up to, was hoping for maybe a Ton from either Root or Malan but after that most likely a procession of wickets.
The fact is they are quicker when bowling, have better batters in the top 5 and they catch so I will be looking out for the job advertisement for head of planning and strategy for our cricket team as they current one seems to have missed these vital points when planning or 2 years for this ashes series.
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Another one of those counter attacking innings that Jos is in the side for 🤦🏻♂️
It’s been a while since any selections based on white ball form have worked hasn’t it?
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The only two batsmen worthy of a spot are Root and Malan.
At this point, I think we have to make changes.
Crawley, Bairstow, Lawrence in?
Burns & Pope are very vulnerable.
Hameed, Stokes, Buttler also not performing so far.
What a fine mess this test side is.
Given what is/could be available, I think my side would be:
Crawley 1
Hameed 2
Malan 3
Root 4
Lawrence 5
Stokes 6
Foakes 7
Bess 8
Wood 9
Robinson 10
Broad/Anderson 11
I don't even like Crawley that much, I'd rather have Bracey.
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Thankfully Malan is showing what a good player he is even if he might have a spikey personality :o
pope out the same way he has been against spin with men round the bat, those of us backing talent and potential are left deflated.
It’s disappointing more than anything….it’s a good pitch, bit of spin but not major, and good batting conditions.
I suppose…..Bairstow could return with the gloves…it’s slim pickings for any other batters
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Did anyone seriously expect anything different. Our batting flaws have been highlighted for years, against teams far inferior to this Aussie side. What do people expect when you have people like Ashley Giles and Chris Silverwood in charge of things.
ECB need to start again. Get Strauss back in charge of the whole thing, and get a coaching team in who deserve it, not just because they once played a few games for England. It’s very much jobs for the boys at present.
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Foakes is in England
Why is foakes in England
This is baffling
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Foakes is in England
Why is foakes in England
This is baffling
He has been with the Lions tour now returned. They have coverage with Bairstow as a keeper batter so Foakes would not be there.
But so far Foakes has showed he can bat well and his keeping will save us runs.
Time for a change I think and get him in for our summer.
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Is it too harsh to say that Australia just want it more?
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It was so predictable what I was going to wake up to, was hoping for maybe a Ton from either Root or Malan but after that most likely a procession of wickets.
The fact is they are quicker when bowling, have better batters in the top 5 and they catch so I will be looking out for the job advertisement for head of planning and strategy for our cricket team as they current one seems to have missed these vital points when planning or 2 years for this ashes series.
Mo Bobat gets away with so much in my opinion, his name never gets mentioned because he is in the background but his job title is Performance Director for Men’s Cricket.
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Whether you trust Leach or Bess or not, not playing a genuine spinner on this pitch is ridiculous.
With Adelaide's history and the groundsman's comments it's so bad
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Whether you trust Leach or Bess or not, not playing a genuine spinner on this pitch is ridiculous.
With Adelaide's history and the groundsman's comments it's so bad
Absolutely, we should of had Leach. Last game on a really green wicket ok leave him out for a seamer, here everyone is right arm over and Lyon is turning it a bit.
We’ve got selection back to front for two games
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What’s actually improved under silverwood? He’s very good at resting unnecessarily
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Atm all the players are under enormous pressure, need big performances, can't see where those are going to come from.
How many times will Root and Malan make 60-70?
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Broad was doing alright there
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Not enforcing the follow on seems daft. Still gonna lose mind
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We are just a bang average to poor side.
We currently have one world class player in Root. Stokes is capable of brilliance but is he consistent enough to be called a true great?
Broad and Anderson are coming towards the end. I like Robinson a lot,still think Crawley has something to offer.
I think prioritising white ball but to the huge detriment of county championship is something that will affect our test team now for a long time,sadly.
Aus on the other hand have have quite a few quality players right now.
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Yep too much on Root. Top class player but he is skipper, carrying the batting, bowling etc
And to compound issues it looked to me like Stokes is injured??
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Not enforcing the follow on seems daft.
Why?
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Why?
New ball, under lights to a team that can't bat with seamers who are still pretty fresh. Just seems odd.
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This isn't even a contest, series will be over in the next test match unless we can somehow pull a shock result.
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How is Robinson not opening the bowling again ffs
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Lawrence got runs on the last full Lions tour to Aus, time to give Pope a rest. Crawley the only option to bring in for Burns unfortunately but can't see how you keep Burns in the side, his confidence must be in absolute pieces.
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Whether you trust Leach or Bess or not, not playing a genuine spinner on this pitch is ridiculous.
With Adelaide's history and the groundsman's comments it's so bad
Really? You can't seriously call it a bad shout to leave out Leach after the last test. Whether he was given a tough task or not, he didn't really instill confidence. Bess isn't up to it yet either unfortunately.
We've dropped too many catches (think maybe 12 to the aussies 1) and haven't built on good sessions when batting. Even Swann wouldn't have changed that!
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Lawrence got runs on the last full Lions tour to Aus, time to give Pope a rest. Crawley the only option to bring in for Burns unfortunately but can't see how you keep Burns in the side, his confidence must be in absolute pieces.
It is far too generous of you to say that Pope should be rested. Unceremoniously dropped would be a far more fitting fate. He is all the worst bits of Ian Bell and James Vince rolled in to one. The only surprise is that Warne hasn’t started calling him Shermanator on comms yet.
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New ball, under lights to a team that can't bat with seamers who are still pretty fresh. Just seems odd.
Games won, they can put us in under lights with a new ball and even fresher seamers tonorrow and out even more miles on our bowlers legs.
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Games won, they can put us in under lights with a new ball and even fresher seamers tonorrow and out even more miles on our bowlers legs.
Yep. Really didn't matter what they did, they'd still win anyway. Now they have a chance to rest their seamers and give Harris some match practice with the pressure off.
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Really? You can't seriously call it a bad shout to leave out Leach after the last test. Whether he was given a tough task or not, he didn't really instill confidence. Bess isn't up to it yet either unfortunately.
We've dropped too many catches (think maybe 12 to the aussies 1) and haven't built on good sessions when batting. Even Swann wouldn't have changed that!
Definitely a bad call, look at the previous day night tests at Adelaide, Lyon is one of the highest wicket takers, Aswin got wickets when India were there last tour, Adelaide turns as the groundsman said before the game.
Leach is a completely different bowler on this wicket, that has turned on day 1.
Would it have made the difference, maybe/probably not, of course like you say we have dropped too many chances.
But you have to at least put the best team on the park to have a chance of winning and in both tests we haven't done that!
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It is far too generous of you to say that Pope should be rested. Unceremoniously dropped would be a far more fitting fate. He is all the worst bits of Ian Bell and James Vince rolled in to one. The only surprise is that Warne hasn’t started calling him Shermanator on comms yet.
He's still young though, plenty time to develop his game against spin which is where his real weakness is. Up to England management to get him the coaching he needs and make the most of a young player who has obvious talent with a fairly glaring weak spot.
Labuschagne and Smith both had to go away and make big changes to their game before they had success at international level, with proper support no reason Pope can't do the same.
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Pretty much as expected but still makes me so angry.
We need to rebuild properly, not just shuffle the pack again. Buttler can't be allowed to keep the gloves that much is certain, Foakes or Bairstow both better options. Pope has had too many chances now and constant talk of 'will come good' is getting very tired. Burns, Crawley, Hameed.... who knows, the cupboard is bare so we have to go with the best of a bad bunch. With his confidence in shatters, Burns is certainly not the best option anymore. Woakes offers little with he ball and can't really be used just to bolster the hopeless top order.
As a group they look broken, even Root and Malan who are the only bright sparks right now look like they are drowning in mediocrity.
More than anything else, the team needs a spine.
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He's still young though, plenty time to develop his game against spin which is where his real weakness is. Up to England management to get him the coaching he needs and make the most of a young player who has obvious talent with a fairly glaring weak spot.
Labuschagne and Smith both had to go away and make big changes to their game before they had success at international level, with proper support no reason Pope can't do the same.
It's not just his weakness against spin though is it. Rash shot selection, hitting one decent shot out of the middle and thinking he is in and can go into 'Pope' mode all the time..... Sometimes talent is not enough at the top level. Maybe he can go away and return a better test bat but right now he looks very far from being the real deal that everyone was hoping for.
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Yes agree with the above, I wanted Pope in but again he gets to the pitch and tries to shovel it for one. It’s not going to work either trust your defender or get to it and hit it properly.
If we bring back Crawley it will be with no runs behind him since being dropped.
Really as others have said we don’t have the quality to choose from
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I think Crawley has got to come in for Burns and someone (presumably Bairstow) for Buttler.
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Would it matter Crawley is not an opening bat for Kent?
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Would it matter Crawley is not an opening bat for Kent?
At this point I don’t think things can get much worse.
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Changing and swapping never work, as proven in the past!
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Wake up and look at the bigger picture!
Then, when you've done so, I suggest writing a strong letter to the ECB. (Or at least a respected cricket journal.)
Would we really be doing a lot better if Crawley, Lawrence and Foakes were playing instead of Burns, Pope and Buttler. If so, how few of us made those calls ahead of the series? It's that classic thing: you become a better player by not being in the side!
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Would it matter Crawley is not an opening bat for Kent?
Probably not as much as that he was already struggling in his favoured position?
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Probably not as much as that he was already struggling in his favoured position?
Yes that’s correct…to some extent he had next to no cricket to return to after last summer so it’s unavoidable. He has a good back foot game so may do better on bouncier pitches.
I have Pope in the side so it shows we are all guessing on potential.
I would say Crawley looks for of a 4 or 5 bat to me, if he played as an opener he would have to play his natural game.
I don’t think England would do this but if Burns does fail next time round they could move Malan to No 2.
Unlikely I think but possible.
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Would it matter Crawley is not an opening bat for Kent?
Crawley opens in the county championship has done for a few years
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Crawley opens in the county championship has done for a few years
Good point. I have seen him do so. :o
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Root not taking the field after being hit in the abdomen during throwdowns.
Hard to see how the tour could get much worse.
BUTTLER IS THE WORST
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Ollie Robinson bowling off breaks now, great.
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Ollie Robinson bowling off breaks now, great.
That's my favourite moment of the series so far. :D
Warne said that he drifted it more than any other spinner in world cricket, and I just saw that he turned it more than Leach too. ;)
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Travis Head, the batsman everyone thinks Buttler should be?
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Totally, @Kulli!
I didn't expect Malan to be our best all-rounder...
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May as well just finish tonight
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Ollie Robinson bowling off breaks now, great.
Were they any good
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Were they any good
Supposedly not bad. I like how they've embraced the banter series with Malan bowling leggies, the premier seam bowler chucking down offies in shades and Buttler only taking worldies.
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Supposedly not bad. I like how they've embraced the banter series with Malan bowling leggies, the premier seam bowler chucking down offies in shades and Buttler only taking worldies.
Haha. In the 2nd test match of an Ashes series. Shame Sibley isn't still around to bowl some double bouncers
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That's my favourite moment of the series so far. :D
Warne said that he drifted it more than any other spinner in world cricket, and I just saw that he turned it more than Leach too. ;)
He was an off-spinner in age-group cricket.
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At what point is root officially an all-rounder?
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When he’s the best spinner we have available.
Now got a better average in Oz than Swann!
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Talk about him getting out at the wrong time
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Talk about him getting out at the wrong time
When Root gets hit what's stopping him walking off retired hurt and us sending the night watchman out??
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The nightmare before Christmas Part 2
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When Root gets hit what's stopping him walking off retired hurt and us sending the night watchman out??
I don’t think anything is stopping him, but he wanted to be out there with Stokes.
We needed something to hit back with, on the green seamer Jimmy or Broad should of played and Wood Here for some pace.
If only….if only…we could get out of this just 0-1 and regroup
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I don’t think anything is stopping him, but he wanted to be out there with Stokes.
We needed something to hit back with, on the green seamer Jimmy or Broad should of played and Wood Here for some pace.
If only….if only…we could get out of this just 0-1 and regroup
We have a sniff if it rains all day.
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We have a sniff if it rains all day.
Yes :) we need some help. I don’t have us to win this series I just find it frustrating we can’t get the selection right to help the team.
If we lose after the right guys are picked on a seamer ok fine.
It’s frustrating
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I did have a moment of hope this morning but once again quick wickets and low scores from our batsmen.
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If only….if only…we could get out of this just 0-1 and regroup
Only hope is, rain!
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Yes :) we need some help. I don’t have us to win this series I just find it frustrating we can’t get the selection right to help the team.
If we lose after the right guys are picked on a seamer ok fine.
It’s frustrating
The selections always look wrong when you’re a fairly average side on a real
Run of losses.
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Given that Australia haven't won a series in England since 2001 and that England have won once in Australia since 1987, there does need to be a degree of realism as to how hard winning an Ashes series away from home is in the modern era. What is disappointing is that we really haven't given ourselves a chance with the selection decisions over the bowling unit and dropped catches / wickets from no balls in the field.
The biggest lesson to be learnt I think is from New Zealand who produce a great site on a fraction of the financial and playing resources of England. They make sure they get all of the basics right which really isn't the case with England as a red ball side
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Do we enjoy cricket?
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Another Stokes ashes masterclass anyone???
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England needed about 220 when he came to the crease at Headingley. Was a remarkable achievement, but not 386!
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It'll be over in a session, can't see anything other than Lyon running right through them
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I really wish Pope would just do something useful.
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Just saw a stat that Woakes is the only England player to get into double figures all 4 innings!!!!
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Just saw a stat that Woakes is the only England player to get into double figures all 4 innings!!!!
Perhaps Woakes should bat 6. Or 1. Or 2. Or 5.
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Just saw a stat that Woakes is the only England player to get into double figures all 4 innings!!!!
Just another reason of why he is so important in this side, his lower order batting is required so often and he looks a fairly decent player, lovely off the back foot and cover drive
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We're going to lose, but the longer this goes on the funnier it gets
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Just another reason of why he is so important in this side, his lower order batting is required so often and he looks a fairly decent player, lovely off the back foot and cover drive
He can’t bowl on Australia though, he’s been by far the worst of the seamers. Don’t think the pick him here if the rest of the bowlers weren’t so weak with bat in hand.
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We're going to lose, but the longer this goes on the funnier it gets
They keep getting out after getting in! Disappointing!
But I'm also very impressed with England flight back!
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Interesting question posed on our club WhatsApp -
Who wins out of these 2 teams -
Team A
Warner
Harris
Marnus
Smith
Head
Green
Buttler
Woakes
Robinson
Broad
Anderson
Team B
Hameed
Burns
Malan
Root
Stokes
Pope
Carey
Cummins
Starc
Lyon
Hazelwood
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A because team B only has one batsman.
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Oh Jos
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On the plus side, we took it to day five. I think this is the only time it will happen all tour.
Giles OUT! Silverwood OUT! Bobat OUT!
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Poor Jos. Always a nasty way to go
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It sounds like Root is trying to get the message across that they were bowling too short, but the bowlers aren't getting it, which with Broad and Anderson's stubborn nature doesn't particularly surprise me.
Experienced or not, he needs to dress them down if needed
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Given that Australia haven't won a series in England since 2001 and that England have won once in Australia since 1987, there does need to be a degree of realism as to how hard winning an Ashes series away from home is in the modern era. What is disappointing is that we really haven't given ourselves a chance with the selection decisions over the bowling unit and dropped catches / wickets from no balls in the field.
The biggest lesson to be learnt I think is from New Zealand who produce a great site on a fraction of the financial and playing resources of England. They make sure they get all of the basics right which really isn't the case with England as a red ball side
The Aussies drew last time they were here and right now I'd put good money on them going one better in 2023.
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It sounds like Root is trying to get the message across that they were bowling too short, but the bowlers aren't getting it, which with Broad and Anderson's stubborn nature doesn't particularly surprise me.
Experienced or not, he needs to dress them down if needed
and I wouldn't blame the bowlers for telling the batsmen to shut up and worry about less about the bowling lengths and concentrate on putting some runs on the board
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and I wouldn't blame the bowlers for telling the batsmen to shut up and worry about less about the bowling lengths and concentrate on putting some runs on the board
Shouldn't matter what the skipper does in the team, if bowlers can't or won't bowl to the plan they're told then there's a problem.
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Shouldn't matter what the skipper does in the team, if bowlers can't or won't bowl to the plan they're told then there's a problem.
It's also where Silverwood surely has to take some of the pressure off of Root and have a word with the bowlers.
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It's also where Silverwood surely has to take some of the pressure off of Root and have a word with the bowlers.
That would require Silverwood to do something other than hide away when we lose, and take the glory on those rare occasions when we don’t.
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I like Root coming out and telling it like it is. Bit more spine than I've seen from him as skipper before, long may it continue.
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Is how it is not that we’ve failed to pass 250 in four goes and that Starc has more runs than all but 3 of our players. Beyond comprehension that they think the main fault lies in the bowling.
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Awful. Just embarrassingly awful. I remember vividly after the last Ashes tour that it was generally agreed that we needed to start planning straight away what type of bowlers and batsmen we needed in order to be competitive in Oz. That was 4 years ago. 4 FCKN years.
What have we ended up with?
Fckn seam bowlers bowing offspin, and our no.s 3 & 4 batsmen also bowling spin....because we left our spinner on the bench...on an established spin receptive deck....because he got mullered after being selected to play on a green seamer the match before....having had next to no match practice the preceding year.
And batters whose County experience has been at the (No Swearing Please) ends of the UK summer when octogenarian 65mph seamers can take their wickets whenever they feel like it.
I don't blame the players. I feel they are trying their best, in general their best being below their competitor's level (because of the above).
I do blame the management team specifically and the top of the ECB in general. If they managed a business, they'd be bankrupt by now. Fck all of them. Ruining it for us. Useless cnuts.
Edited to add more swear words related to the time the management team had to sort things out.
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Entirely in agreement. I’ve also stopped blaming the players. I have no doubt they are doing their best.
It is time there was some accountability, we all wanted to give Silverwood some time but I think the job is too big.
Giles the same, we can shuffle the selection pack but both these guys have got to go.
Don’t know who could replace the coach but personally I would like Strauss to be in the job Giles is in, that I do know
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Entirely in agreement. I’ve also stopped blaming the players. I have no doubt they are doing their best.
It is time there was some accountability, we all wanted to give Silverwood some time but I think the job is too big.
Giles the same, we can shuffle the selection pack but both these guys have got to go.
Don’t know who could replace the coach but personally I would like Strauss to be in the job Giles is in, that I do know
The decision to give Silverwood full selection powers has back fired spectacularly. He must carry the can for this after he was given those responsibilities.
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They need to pull Mahmood out of.the big bash and.play him a d Wood together. We need pace to win in Aus but for some reason we are playing 4 bowlers that all bowl exactly the same.
I'd drop burns and let Malan open and bring either Bairstow or Crawley in.
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They need to pull Mahmood out of.the big bash and.play him a d Wood together. We need pace to win in Aus but for some reason we are playing 4 bowlers that all bowl exactly the same.
I'd drop burns and let Malan open and bring either Bairstow or Crawley in.
What would be the benefit of moving malan who is batting nicely at number 3 ? Especially when we haven’t had a decent number 3 for a very long time.
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Bairstow gives his wicket away cheaply at times and has hardly set the world alight on the test arena over the past few years but he is in a different class to half of the tripe we select and much more likely to hit a big score, if only maybe once in every 3 innings or so? Just my opinion.
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Bairstow gives his wicket away cheaply at times and has hardly set the world alight on the test arena over the past few years but he is in a different class to half of the tripe we select and much more likely to hit a big score, if only maybe once in every 3 innings or so? Just my opinion.
Totally agree. I've always been a Bairstow fan but he always seems very unpopular for whatever reason.
What we can't deny is that he has been a world class performer in the longer format. If we forget his more test runs in a calendar year than any wicketkeeper in history and most dismissals by any wicketkeeper in a year..... forget the gloves for a moment, he is right up there with Vaughan and Root for most test runs scored in a year.
Yes, the white ball focus may have made him a different player but that talent hasn't just evaporated never to be seen again. Compare that with someone like Pope who having been given countless chances is yet to prove that he is worthy of a spot in the team.
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Totally agree. I've always been a Bairstow fan but he always seems very unpopular for whatever reason.
What we can't deny is that he has been a world class performer in the longer format. If we forget his more test runs in a calendar year than any wicketkeeper in history and most dismissals by any wicketkeeper in a year..... forget the gloves for a moment, he is right up there with Vaughan and Root for most test runs scored in a year.
Yes, the white ball focus may have made him a different player but that talent hasn't just evaporated never to be seen again. Compare that with someone like Pope who having been given countless chances is yet to prove that he is worthy of a spot in the team.
I’m with you on that one, I’m selecting bairstow instead of Pope everyday !
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Bairstow gives his wicket away cheaply at times and has hardly set the world alight on the test arena over the past few years but he is in a different class to half of the tripe we select and much more likely to hit a big score, if only maybe once in every 3 innings or so? Just my opinion.
History suggests he’s really not. Averaging less than Pope on 2021 isn’t he?
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History suggests he’s really not. Averaging less than Pope on 2021 isn’t he?
On the contrary, history suggests that Bairstow is a better performer than Pope on the big stage and that's even factoring the period after he became a white ball specialist and damaged his red ball stats.
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Test 78 138 8 4381 167* 33.70 8031 54.55 6 22 517 28 195 13
Test 22 38 4 1013 135* 29.79 1990 50.90 1 6 115 2 22 0
looking at one season means nothing....
Pope hasn't had anything to worry about other than scoring runs and not playing ridiculous shots. Hmmmm, how has that been working out.
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Or to put it another way, Pope averages less with the bat than our 2nd/3rd choice keeper.... take your pick.
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I would be furious if I was part of this bowling unit being blamed by Root for this. Woakes has been as ineffective in these conditions as many of us feared and Leach is cannon fodder at this level unless the conditions are very favourable but the rest have done a solid job particularly when one considers all the catches that have gone down. The bowling issues have resulted from selection decisions which fall squarely on Root and Silverwood.
This series is uncompetitive because of England's batsmen. Burns and Pope have looked terrible but the rest have made starts but then failed to convert into match winning scores.
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On the Pope v Bairstow, think it's important to look at when and where Bairstow has his runs. In recent years he has been abysmal against pace. Pope has been terrible against decent spin. Neither has been very convincing so I'd look to get Lawrence in, if only because he's shown a bit more spine than either this year.
Ideal world, Buttler bats 6 and Foakes keeps but they've sent him home. Lawrence has an excellent record for the Lions in Aus and personally I really rate him.
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Bairstow gives his wicket away cheaply at times and has hardly set the world alight on the test arena over the past few years but he is in a different class to half of the tripe we select and much more likely to hit a big score, if only maybe once in every 3 innings or so? Just my opinion.
If Bairstow made a big score every 3 innings he'd be an all-time great, rather than struggling for selection! In reality he has 1 score over 50 in 13 attempts in Aus, and 3 in his last 34 test knocks...
I'd love to suggest changes as there's obviously got to be some, but other than Lawrence we haven't really taken any backup - can't see Crawley getting many. Could be a good time to be in the BBL.
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On the Pope v Bairstow, think it's important to look at when and where Bairstow has his runs. In recent years he has been abysmal against pace. Pope has been terrible against decent spin. Neither has been very convincing so I'd look to get Lawrence in, if only because he's shown a bit more spine than either this year.
Ideal world, Buttler bats 6 and Foakes keeps but they've sent him home. Lawrence has an excellent record for the Lions in Aus and personally I really rate him.
I would also pick Lawrence, the reason being because you know what you are getting with Pope and Bairstow and it ain't pretty, I think it's quite obvious Lyon is all over Pope and the Aussie quicks will be targeting bringing one back into Bairstow to get him bowled like he has been.
So with Lawrence there is a sort of lack of history there, a chance for him to make a mark etc....
But TBH have can't see them making any changes, after what Root said. Burns batted better 2nd innings, obviously Buttler saved himself and they have flown Foakes home for some ridiculous reason. They like Pope otherwise they wouldn't have picked him in the 1st place, and they won't want to admit they were wrong after 2 tests.
Only changes will be to the bowlers and who knows what they will be considering the 1st 2 tests!
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Always assumed that Foakes must have shagged Ed Smith's wife, now it's looking increasingly likely that it was James Taylor's.
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Always assumed that Foakes must have shagged Ed Smith's wife, now it's looking increasingly likely that it was James Taylor's.
Or is he totally out of the selection scene these days? Either way the selection this series has been a complete shocker
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On the contrary, history suggests that Bairstow is a better performer than Pope on the big stage and that's even factoring the period after he became a white ball specialist and damaged his red ball stats.
The period he’s still in?
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People would 'really rate' Pope again if he wasn't in the team. :D
The Ben Foakes thing is becoming funny.
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Or to put it another way, Pope averages less with the bat than our 2nd/3rd choice keeper.... take your pick.
Since 2018, when Pope made his debut, Bairstow averages 24.8. Surely that’s the fairest comparison, even if they haven’t played exactly the same games.
Either way neither is worth a spot, Pope was just an example of the low bar he falls below.
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Since 2018, when Pope made his debut, Bairstow averages 24.8. Surely that’s the fairest comparison, even if they haven’t played exactly the same games.
Either way neither is worth a spot, Pope was just an example of the low bar he falls below.
Shows how little there is coming through. Jake Libby should get a shot at opening. Obviously won't happen this series, but for next summer can we pick batsmen who are in form please selectors?!
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Shows how little there is coming through. Jake Libby should get a shot at opening. Obviously won't happen this series, but for next summer can we pick batsmen who are in form please selectors?!
Isn't this the issue....championship played April/May and end of Summer so who is actually in form come June/July/August? For the Ashes none of the red ball players would have batted since September and no meaningful warm up practice.
Also,as much as I love the heroics of Leach and his "legend" status not sure he is up to the job so who out there in county cricket land is?
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Isn't this the issue....championship played April/May and end of Summer so who is actually in form come June/July/August? For the Ashes none of the red ball players would have batted since September and no meaningful warm up practice.
Also,as much as I love the heroics of Leach and his "legend" status not sure he is up to the job so who out there in county cricket land is?
I agree, something should be done about the scheduling. Our test team is suffering because of it. I don't blame batsmen who travel the world playing for franchises or focus on the shorter formats, maybe there should be a larger incentive for First Class batsmen and bowlers? The other thing that needs to change is warm up games when touring abroad. Enough of these intra-squad 2x 2 day games to warm up for a 5 test match series. Take test cricket seriously if you want to be good at it, dont cut corners on warm up games and expect to jump right into form come ball one.
And on selection...
Personally, I'm at a point where I don't care who we select, so long as there is a breath of fresh air. Burns has had his chance, Sibley too, Pope, Bairstow, all the guys like that. When the summer tests roll around, there are people who will be doing well in the county championship. If you can score runs in April and May, you can score runs in July and August. It feels like a vicious cycle at the moment with the constant regurgitation of batsmen who have already failed. Like mentioned previously, Bairstow averages 24 since 2018, sorry Jonny, thats not good enough, lets see whos next. Burns isn't in form, lets try Crawley etc etc.
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This is so funny its actually beyond a joke.
The Ashes: England coach Chris Silverwood says he would pick same teams again for first two Tests - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59739472 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59739472)
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Test 78 138 8 4381 167* 33.70 8031 54.55 6 22 517 28 195 13
Test 22 38 4 1013 135* 29.79 1990 50.90 1 6 115 2 22 0
looking at one season means nothing....
Pope hasn't had anything to worry about other than scoring runs and not playing ridiculous shots. Hmmmm, how has that been working out.
You're right one season means nothing take out Jonny's 2016 and he's been ordinary
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This is so funny its actually beyond a joke.
The Ashes: England coach Chris Silverwood says he would pick same teams again for first two Tests - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59739472 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59739472)
It’s staggering reading with every commentator and a lot of fans thinking we had 2 wrong teams why Silverwood thinks nothing is wrong
We have bigger problems than we thought! Root if he is to remain Captain needs a good experienced coach to work with
What we have now is not working
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Sadly, the reality is that we just don't have much of a squad to chose from. It's a valid point that whoever isn't selected seems to be a good option again until the next time they are and then the merry go round continues.
Sack Silverwood, rebuild from grass roots and we may be able to compete again in 10 years if Test cricket survives that long.
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Silverwood is going to carry the can for this I reckon.
It's not just his fault. He has mostly average players, especially batters and spinners,to work with.
We had one good crop of real test match quality batsmen in Cook, Strauss,Bell,KP, Trescothick,Vaughan,Trott.
Since then only really Root,and the rest are mediocre,with flashes of brilliance or good seasons. Plus there is chopping and changing again like in the 90's
Harrison has a lot to answer for I reckon.
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I do totally accept that Silverwood has had a tricky task in the Test arena, in that the long form of the game is not getting the right environment to flourish within the domestic game, ergo we are not really seeing the volume of players come through, and those that do often have techniques adapted to the particular rigours of playing on a damp green top in sub Arctic winds!
The other side to that is, the minimum you would expect from a coach is that they make the best of what they have available to them, and it is manifestly clear that he is not doing that. The blame does lie at his door for the wrongheaded selection of both Test sides, as it must for picking a squad which is nothing more than four years older than when it failed last time round - in a not dissimilar position in 1999 Duncan Fletcher picked on character and managed to bring Michael Vaughan and Marcus Trescothick into the side (okay, he also tried Chris Adams and Gavin Hamilton but hey, by current standards they don't look *that* bad a pair of selections!) - where was the call to bring Mahmood, Garton or Parkinson this time? Or to promote someone like Matt Fisher when he looked like a massive handful in the Lions game?
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Silverwood likes to play it safe. He is the cricket version of Gareth Southgate, minus the ability to admit when has gotten things wrong.
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Seeing a seamer bowl offies and still not admitting we should of had a spinner in the side beggars belief.
And those on here saying forget the bowling our batting is awful…you are all right.
However did anyone read Pointings remarks when Root said we bowled too short…he’s right we did
Who is responsible for telling bowlers their length is wrong
The bowlers should know replace them If they can’t
The coach
The Captain.
My gut feeling is Root we know is not a good Captain but is he being hampered by senior players?
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Seeing a seamer bowl offies and still not admitting we should of had a spinner in the side beggars belief.
And those on here saying forget the bowling our batting is awful…you are all right.
However did anyone read Pointings remarks when Root said we bowled too short…he’s right we did
Who is responsible for telling bowlers their length is wrong
The bowlers should know replace them If they can’t
The coach
The Captain.
My gut feeling is Root we know is not a good Captain but is he being hampered by senior players?
He’s a terrible captain, but also a weak one too. If your bowlers won’t listen to you and bowl in the way you want them to, then you are well within your rights to haul them off. He won’t do that for fear of upsetting the applecart.
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I’m not a Root fan, as captain, but to be fair Robinson only bowled offies when Root was off the field. Part of the issue with Leach is that they have so many lefties. If Robinson bowling offies was the best option for a over or two then why not. Though I get that it does give the press en easy stick to beat them with.
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Sounds like Crawley, Leach, Bairstow and Wood are going to get a look in
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I would go with
1. Hameed
2. Crawley
3. Mallan
4. Root
5. Stokes
6. Bairstow
7. Butler
8. Robinson
9. Wood
10. Anderson
11. Leach
The tail is long but any runs Woakes is scoring don't outweigh his lack of contribution with the ball
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That but with Lawrence for Bairstow IMO. Bairstow has been poor against decent pace bowling with a red ball for a long time now.
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That tail looks horrendous!
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Here's my humble offering... A bit unorthodox, I know.
I'm moving Hameed or Burns down the order, where it should be easier to score runs. Crawley, Bairstow, Lawrence come in. Lawrence can bowl tidy spin, and so I'm prioritizing stiffening the batting with that added bonus. Bairstow comes in to keep and bat. Woakes, Pope, Buttler out. Was tempted to drop Hameed instead of Woakes as Woakes balances the side, but he isn't taking wicket. I think Leach will be hit out of the attack, and I don't want to break him as a player. I still think I'm a bowler short... Hameed for Anderson or Woakes?
1. Burns
2. Crawley
3. Malan
4. Root
5. Hameed
6. Lawrence
7. Bairstow (WK)
8. Stokes
9. Wood
10. Robinson
11. Broad
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What I'd like:
1. Bairstow
2. Hameed
3. Crawley
4. Malan
5. Root
6. Stokes
7. Buttler (wk)
8. Lawrence/Broad (subject to pitch)
9. Robinson
10. Wood
11. Anderson
What I think we'll get:
1. Hameed
2. Crawley
3. Malan
4. Root
5. Stokes
6. Pope
7. Buttler (wk)
8. Woakes/Leach (subject to pitch)
9. Robinson
10. Wood
11. Anderson
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Hameed got 2 ducks and still favourite to start batting line up as an opener! 🤔
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Bairstow has struggled against quality pace bowlers bowling at his stumps with a bit of movement and people repeatedly want him to open. Tell me you haven't watched Bairstow bat in red ball for years without telling me you haven't...
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Hameed
Crawley
Malan
Root
Stokes
Bairstow (should be Lawrence but...)
Buttler
Robinson
Wood
Leach
Anderson
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Bairstow has struggled against quality pace bowlers bowling at his stumps with a bit of movement and people repeatedly want him to open. Tell me you haven't watched Bairstow bat in red ball for years without telling me you haven't...
Yes, it's a sink or swim option for me putting him out first. He opens in other formats and I want an ODI attacking the bowlers style performance scoring 40-75 odd. If he nicks off then so be it, he'd nick off further down the order pissing about trying to stay in.
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Yes, it's a sink or swim option for me putting him out first. He opens in other formats and I want an ODI attacking the bowlers style performance scoring 40-75 odd. If he nicks off then so be it, he'd nick off further down the order pissing about trying to stay in.
Have you noticed that the Aussie batsmen noticeably haven't been doing this? Warner is every bit as destructive in white ball as Bairstow and he's been coming in and looking to bat long. The idea that Bairstow can come in and do what he does in white ball against a test attack is a fallacy.
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Why you can't or don't pick Roy and Hales as openers. No opening combinations have worked for sometime. Why not give chance to others.
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Have you noticed that the Aussie batsmen noticeably haven't been doing this? Warner is every bit as destructive in white ball as Bairstow and he's been coming in and looking to bat long. The idea that Bairstow can come in and do what he does in white ball against a test attack is a fallacy.
Don't disagree and I believe he shouldn't be in our red ball side. I'm just selecting from what options are currently out there.
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Don't disagree and I believe he shouldn't be in our red ball side. I'm just selecting from what options are currently out there.
I'd rather stick Crawley up top, aware his form has been abysmal but Bairstow up top against Hazelwood and Cummins is painful to imagine.
Why you can't or don't pick Roy and Hales as openers. No opening combinations have worked for sometime. Why not give chance to others.
Because Hales and Roy have both been tried and miserably failed as test openers before and neither have any kind of red ball form?
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Not convinced with Hameed as well! While Aussie are in full control, there is little chance for those incomers, as well, who actually were not picked up initially for the first Ashes Test!
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I don’t think myself Crawley has or could do anything to justify being picked but we have to do something gut feeling is Crawley is better suited to pace as he pulls and cuts well.
Bairstow will came back in and again, Lawrence maybe should get the chance instead of Pope. Hugely disappointed Pope has not shown how good he is on this tour but it’s runs that count and he doesn’t have enough
More interestingly we know Root was unhappy with the bowling last match, one paper has Broad and Anderson both dropped.
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Larry Lowhands Hameed has looked convincingly unconvincing.
Would this 90's naughties mix do better?
Carberry
Compton
Smith
Hick
Ramprakash
White
Stewart
Malcolm
Gough
Panesar
Caddick
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Larry Lowhands Hameed has looked convincingly unconvincing.
Would this 90's naughties mix do better?
Carberry
Compton
Smith
Hick
Ramprakash
White
Stewart
Malcolm
Gough
Panesar
Caddick
Hahaha, they didn't work out as well!
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Larry Lowhands Hameed has looked convincingly unconvincing.
Would this 90's naughties mix do better?
Carberry
Compton
Smith
Hick
Ramprakash
White
Stewart
Malcolm
Gough
Panesar
Caddick
Carberry would be our best opener now
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Larry Lowhands Hameed has looked convincingly unconvincing.
Would this 90's naughties mix do better?
Carberry
Compton
Smith
Hick
Ramprakash
White
Stewart
Malcolm
Gough
Panesar
Caddick
Honestly, we only have two maybe three nowadays who would get in that side at their peak.
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The papers are reporting that Burns and Pope are being dropped for Crawley and Bairstow
This is The Mail's (Lawrence Booth) probable team -
ENGLAND: 1 Haseeb Hameed, 2 Zak Crawley, 3 Dawid Malan, 4 Joe Root (capt), 5 Ben Stokes, 6 Jonny Bairstow, 7 Jos Buttler (wkt), 8 Ollie Robinson, 9 Mark Wood, 10 Jack Leach, 11 James Anderson.
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Glad Hameed hasn’t gone. He has shown enough to suggest he can succeed longer term and it could be ruinous for his career to recall him at the first hint of county form and drop him a few tests later.
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I have to say, the squad selection with Crawley (average of 11 this yr in test cricket) and Bairstow (tried over and over again) leaves a lot to be desired. Bairstow showed in 2016 he can do it, but in the 5 years since he's shown nothing. I don't hate his selection as much as Crawley's though. Crawley averages 32 or something in FC cricket and now 11 in the last year in tests. What on earth possessed the selectors to go with him over the plethora of openers that average more than him and look like better bets? Boggles my mind.
Rest of the side on paper looks ok, would like foakes in to keep but someone who clearly doesn't know the importance of a keeper has sent him home.
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I have to say, the squad selection with Crawley (average of 11 this yr in test cricket) and Bairstow (tried over and over again) leaves a lot to be desired. Bairstow showed in 2016 he can do it, but in the 5 years since he's shown nothing. I don't hate his selection as much as Crawley's though. Crawley averages 32 or something in FC cricket and now 11 in the last year in tests. What on earth possessed the selectors to go with him over the plethora of openers that average more than him and look like better bets? Boggles my mind.
Rest of the side on paper looks ok, would like foakes in to keep but someone who clearly doesn't know the importance of a keeper has sent him home.
Lets get Sam Robson and Keaton Jennings back :D
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Lets get Sam Robson and Keaton Jennings back :D
Haha, no, but I wouldn't mind Yates (who looked really good against aus A) or lees, or Hain getting a look in.
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Yates does look the most like a test opener of the current crop, even if the stats don't quite back it up yet.
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Agree with leachy, Crawley has not done anything to indicate a recall, he also has not had the chance to thru our summer or on tour.
I suppose picking outside the contracted players is unlikely away from home.
I think Crawley does have potential as do Pope and Lawrence.
But I doubt any of us could really put them in order of who is more likely to be successful in tests.
I really do hope Pope does not end up just flogging runs at the Oval, like Hick and Ramps that would be such a waste
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I'll give 2 B's one more chance!
Burns and Bairstow, it's worth it!
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Yates, Bohannon, Libby for next year? Try and blood the new talent
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I have to say, the squad selection with Crawley (average of 11 this yr in test cricket) and Bairstow (tried over and over again) leaves a lot to be desired. Bairstow showed in 2016 he can do it, but in the 5 years since he's shown nothing. I don't hate his selection as much as Crawley's though. Crawley averages 32 or something in FC cricket and now 11 in the last year in tests. What on earth possessed the selectors to go with him over the plethora of openers that average more than him and look like better bets? Boggles my mind.
Rest of the side on paper looks ok, would like foakes in to keep but someone who clearly doesn't know the importance of a keeper has sent him home.
Did you watch Crawley's 267 against PAK? He faced both left arm fast and spin, at 23 years old he certainly deserves investment. Burns on the other hand has only managed 50% of that, at his best!
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Honestly, we only have two maybe three nowadays who would get in that side at their peak.
Exactly.
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Yates, Bohannon, Libby for next year? Try and blood the new talent
Good idea,at least two of the three
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Yates, Bohannon, Libby for next year? Try and blood the new talent
And how are we expecting that to go?
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And how are we expecting that to go?
The same
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And how are we expecting that to go?
Could be a Burns or could be the new Marnus. Who knows, but it can’t be worse than what we’re dealing with currently
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It could be that the penny has finally dropped with the fact that if we now accept that we are an average test side at the moment that we start playing and trusting youth. Rob Key has made some good points on some pod casts recently about what’s the top ceiling that players can reach. There is a chance that Hameed, Crawley, Lawrence, Pope for etc could click and go on and become 10,000 run test players all 25 or under I believe. Burns is not that guy and has 30odd tests with a mediocre average and has a few years left at best but isn’t performing.
Maybe it’s just that they like the ticker of these players but it can’t be worse than what’s been happening for a while now and at least we are going with younger players.
I don’t get the Bairstow selection unless he comes in for Butler and keeps shouldn’t play them both personally.
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Root blaming bowlers for the whole team's failings is the biggest captaincy mess he's made since the mess he made of Archer's elbow.
Need to get Morgan playing the Brearley role, it wouldn't be hard for him to average higher than our current top 6.
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I'd love to see Libby playing for England purely for the Cornish representation!
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I also think Bairstow has been picked (I don't agree with it) because he brings extra to our woeful fielding.
Buttler will keep, but Bairstow is one of the best fielders in the white ball team.
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I also think Bairstow has been picked (I don't agree with it) because he brings extra to our woeful fielding.
Buttler will keep, but Bairstow is one of the best fielders in the white ball team.
If he is being picked for his fielding that's funny. He's a keeper
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If he is being picked for his fielding that's funny. He's a keeper
You say that, but he’s undoubtedly a better fielder than keeper 😆
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Did you watch Crawley's 267 against PAK? He faced both left arm fast and spin, at 23 years old he certainly deserves investment. Burns on the other hand has only managed 50% of that, at his best!
I did, and I like everyone else though that he'd be a serious test player. I now think sides have worked him out, and he -so far - hasn't shown the adaptability to make it at test level. I could be wrong, but keeping someone in the squad because they scored some runs 2 years ago is the strangest decision I've come across for a while.
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Could be a Burns or could be the new Marnus. Who knows, but it can’t be worse than what we’re dealing with currently
They've all shown some promise in red ball cricket. Give them a go on good wickets and see what they're capable of.
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Let's be honest- the last 5 pages have been moving the deck chairs on the Titanic. We do not have a squad capable of challenging the Aussies at the moment irrespective of which individuals are actually chosen.
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Let's be honest- the last 5 pages have been moving the deck chairs on the Titanic. We do not have a squad capable of challenging the Aussies at the moment irrespective of which individuals are actually chosen.
If this is the case then they should stick to their initial section and hope for the best!
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It proves the sorry state the English game is in when we are likely to see Crawley and Bairstow back in the side. Both of whom were dropped due to poor form, and have not shown any improvement in form to warrant reselection.
The focus on hit n giggle cricket has ruined the purest form of the game, and I can’t see a way of rectifying the situation when the focus will always be on the shorter formats because that’s where the money is.
I fear we have seen the last of England being a force in test cricket. Welcome to the wilderness.
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Reports saying Boland in for the 3rd test
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The England side is:
Hameed
Crawley
Malan
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Buttler
Wood
Robinson
Leach
Anderson
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Don't mind the team
But we're still probably going to get pumped
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The England side is:
Hameed
Crawley
Malan
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Buttler
Wood
Robinson
Leach
Anderson
Openers make no chance! Rest of the team should be fine.
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At least Robbo gets to bowl with the new ball.
Crawley and Hameed.... Hmmm
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I think the only thing we can get out of this tour is if one or two of the young batsmen make progress
Sibley and Pope may go by the wayside there is still Lawrence potentially.
We live in hope :)
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I'm almost completely ambivalent towards the selection now, there is so little between many of the options. All I ask for is that those who are brought in and given another chance (Crawley, Bairstow)... take that chance and do something with it or those that are trusted with an extended run (Burns, Pope) pull their fingers out of their backsides and prove that they are worthy of the spot.
Outside of 3 or 4 players, the rest of the team may as well be a roll of the dice. Certainly not expecting a miracle but sincerely hope that we can make a better fist of things in Melbourne..... and please at least just take our catches!!!
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Rain in Melbourne, ah
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Marnus using a Retro Bubble!!
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Oh dear.
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We're screwed
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But on the plus side, Marnus is using a retro bubble!
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Sir David Gower commentating. Lovely stuff!
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That didn't take long
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Hameed out for 0. Not sure the ball did anything.
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Standard england start !! Expected nothing else, certainly wouldn’t of been in my selection for this test
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There’s the Zak we all know.
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Malian resuming his opener duties at number 3
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Cummins has been unbelievable so far
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Oh dear. 13-2.
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Should I go to bed
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Should I go to bed
Depends. Do you like self-flagellation?
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It's a tough watch again. This series will age us all....
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I think the most frustrating thing about this is that no matter what we do we just don’t have the ability to beat Australia down under.
There isn’t any combination of players in this country that would make a stable test batting line up.
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As in the first 2 Tests, our best chance is currently at the crease. If they both get in on this wicket there is no reason to think why they shouldn't go big but at the same time, if they fall it will be the standard house of cards again most likely.
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Why are we so bad at seeing out sessions?
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Frustrating finish before lunch after recovering
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I think the most frustrating thing about this is that no matter what we do we just don’t have the ability to beat Australia down under.
There isn’t any combination of players in this country that would make a stable test batting line up.
Perhaps there might be if England's batting coaches were doing anything to help players adapt to the challenges of test cricket when they step up.
Astonished at how often the more informed commentators are picking up on technical deficiencies in the England batsmen and yet the England coaching setup have apparently done nothing to try and alleviate these deficiencies.
Don't need to change the world but IMO it is one of the fundamental tasks of the England coaches to help players transition from county to international cricket. That should clearly involve helping them make technical tweaks that allow them to adapt to test cricket.
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Buttler is a moron
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Buttler, that was effing pathetic.
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I can't remember the last tour down order. Was it this bad?
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Awful. Just atrocious.
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That innings was even worse than the previous four. Atrocious batting.
Aus 100/0 by close of play?
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If this isnt the final game in Butlers test career I dont know what it will take for the selectors to realise hes not that guy......
Would love to know what Stokes was doing as well. Just (No Swearing Please) leave it alone. Why are these guys batting like we have 400 runs on the board and they can have a net in the middle. Experienced test players with the temperament of U14 tail enders playing their first season of adult cricket.
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3rd duck in a row for Hameed! Not bad! Let's see if he can manage another next up.
To win a test a team has to win 3 sessions in a row! Winning one looks impossible atm!
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Are there any lions left who open? This is embarrassing for us
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Are there any lions left who open? This is embarrassing for us
Right handed ones!
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Time for some Nasser style honesty when this is over no more management speak from Root and Silverwood.
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Clean up is needed! Batters And bowlers!
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Only positive this series might bring is if it inspires the kind of sweeping change to the test set up that is so clearly needed. New skipper, new coach, new chief selector and new approach.
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Only positive this series might bring is if it inspires the kind of sweeping change to the test set up that is so clearly needed. New skipper, new coach, new chief selector and new approach.
This is more likely to get a positive outcome than just swapping all of the players around and complaining about the same players "we need to give x a go" - just a vicious circle at this point.
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This is more likely to get a positive outcome than just swapping all of the players around and complaining about the same players "we need to give x a go" - just a vicious circle at this point.
I sense a root and branch review coming
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I sense a root and branch review coming
Root will do okay, but I'm not expecting much from Branch.
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Only positive this series might bring is if it inspires the kind of sweeping change to the test set up that is so clearly needed. New skipper, new coach, new chief selector and new approach.
Fingers crossed this series is enough to kick start the overhaul. Im not so sure though.
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Fingers crossed this series is enough to kick start the overhaul. Im not so sure though.
It is absolutely wrong to blame Root and Silverwood. They can only work with what is available to them.
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It is absolutely wrong to blame Root and Silverwood. They can only work with what is available to them.
They've decided on who is available to them and have got it disastrously wrong. Silverwood has failed to prepare a sensible squad and shows no signs of having improved anybody.
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Mark Ramprakash: "I have never seen Jos comfortable with his method in Test cricket."
Seems like the kind of thing the last England batting coach (2014-2019) should have helped him with. Anyone know who that was? 🤔
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Root will do okay, but I'm not expecting much from Branch.
Quality comment!
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It is absolutely wrong to blame Root and Silverwood. They can only work with what is available to them.
I think Root had tried to bring on some young batsmen but is hampered by our system and the available talent.
Root needs help, a good experienced coach who can help build the team.
The selections for the first two tests were just wrong, we are not good enough to get selection so wrong and still compete.
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They've decided on who is available to them and have got it disastrously wrong. Silverwood has failed to prepare a sensible squad and shows no signs of having improved anybody.
They have picked the best players available to them. Other than Ben Foakes, who do you think ought to be in the squad?
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The greedy f***ers who signed off the H****** and still insisted the T20 was still played in the peak of summer are to blame.
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They have picked the best players available to them. Other than Ben Foakes, who do you think ought to be in the squad?
Mahmood, Parkinson and Foakes for starters. I don't think Bairstow should be there, I'd probably not have Craig Overton either.
I think they should have introduced players to the squad who were horses for courses picks for Aussie pitches, and blooded the likes of Parkinson long ago.
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To blame?
1-Selectors
2-Players
3-Captain
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Mahmood, Parkinson and Foakes for starters. I don't think Bairstow should be there, I'd probably not have Craig Overton either.
I think they should have introduced players to the squad who were horses for courses picks for Aussie pitches, and blooded the likes of Parkinson long ago.
I think its a good idea, especially for Australia. Mahmood is a good selection. Its clear the bowlers are lacking half a yard of pace. Thats fine, they'll still be very useful in English conditions. Not sure what can be done about the batsmen though?
Australia haven't won in England for 20 years either, but it's obvious they are much closer to winning here, than we are winning there.
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Mahmood, Parkinson and Foakes for starters. I don't think Bairstow should be there, I'd probably not have Craig Overton either.
I think they should have introduced players to the squad who were horses for courses picks for Aussie pitches, and blooded the likes of Parkinson long ago.
None of them please,
Need young blood who has no fear to failure! Technically reasonable sound but solid! Who has that capacity for coming 5-10 years!
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I think its a good idea, especially for Australia. Mahmood is a good selection. Its clear the bowlers are lacking half a yard of pace. Thats fine, they'll still be very useful in English conditions. Not sure what can be done about the batsmen though?
Australia haven't won in England for 20 years either, but it's obvious they are much closer to winning here, than we are winning there.
Given how crucial the opening role is, I think it needs to be looked at as a specialist job. Arguably top 3 should be selected for conditions, same as the bowlers are.
Batting wise, it's failure to grit it out that is causing problems. Select three openers suited to conditions and who have shown the technique and mentality to bat long, stick them top 3.
Foakes at 7, not just for his keeping but because he looks to have far more of a natural test match mentality than Buttler.
Start looking to introduce openers with solid, repeatable technique. I think Burns has shown he's another one out the Ballance book - outstanding county player, mediocre at test level because of technical issues he won't correct.
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Root will do okay, but I'm not expecting much from Branch.
Loool
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To blame?
1-Selectors
2-Players
3-Captain
Administrators? Late capitalism?
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None of them please,
Who has that capacity for coming 5-10 years!
You mean like 24 yr old Mahmood, 25 yr old Parkinson and 28 yr old Foakes?
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Foakes has got to come in surely after this series.
If I remember right mid to late 80’s the Aussies when thru a rebuilding patch and went with youth. And they stuck with them.
I think that is the only thing we can do and just hope the ones we have now plus Pope and maybe Sibley come good.
Really don’t think there’s much else we can do. Malan has a role and there might be one or two more batters not yet identified.
I would have Lawrence in and not Bairstow to try that theory.
This series has long gone what is there to lose
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Sadly, we just aren't going to become a decent Test team anytime soon. It's going to take time and I'm not even sure it's possible within the current structure unless there is significant change.
Sure, there is a lot wrong with the management but at grass roots we are way off the pace.
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You mean like 24 yr old Mahmood, 25 yr old Parkinson and 28 yr old Foakes?
Yes, once this Ashes is dusted,
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Foakes must come in. Should have been in for time,bruv
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Yes, once this Ashes is dusted,
I'm not sure someone who admits their attention span is too short to watch a game of T20 should even be commenting.
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Foakes must come in. Should have been in for time,bruv
Probably, but I can't really think of anyone else who can feel hard done by.
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Probably, but I can't really think of anyone else who can feel hard done by.
Leach,Archer (overbowled)and Bess have been messed around by captain and selectors
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I'm not sure someone who admits their attention span is too short to watch a game of T20 should even be commenting.
Don't worry about my test cricket knowledge.
As I don't worry about your condemning statements!
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Leach,Archer (overbowled)and Bess have been messed around by captain and selectors
Leach is in the side! Bess is in the squad.
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Don't worry about my test cricket knowledge.
As I don't worry about your condemning statements!
Thanks, I'll not worry.
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https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/aug/23/senior-ecb-executives-to-share-21m-bonus-despite-covid-job-cuts (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/aug/23/senior-ecb-executives-to-share-21m-bonus-despite-covid-job-cuts)
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Leach is in the side! Bess is in the squad.
You miss the point entirely
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Looks like the get out of jail card is being played
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Played and lost. Oh well they wil have to attempt to paly cricket
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You miss the point entirely
He'd rather not have played in the first Test?
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Well...what did we learn yesterday?
Openers are still in dire straits, but at least the new addition can now catch.
Jack Leach CAN hit a six.
Fingers crossed for a better days play.
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What a ball from Wood!
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What a ball from Wood!
Sounded good on the radio!
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Tough chance, but I’m backing foakes to take that half chance. Least we’re creating chances though
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Brilliant from Jimmy, deserved it from this spell
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Great session this...
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Master at work, genuine excellence from Jimmy
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Once again, we show just how awful Jos buttler is as a keeper and how important a specialist keeper is
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Leach is a terrible bowler. Everything down the leg side.
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Leach is a terrible bowler. Everything down the leg side.
Totally agree, but a chance is a chance, (No Swearing Please) gets wickets as we all know and Harris should be in the shed now.
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Don't agree at all that Leach is a "terrible bowler". He's massively undercooked, not been backed by England management over the entire year and has had to deal with the psychological impact of taking a scapegoating in the media for a shocking first Test bowling performance from the whole team.
He's shown before what he's capable of when he's actually given a run and the opportunity to bowl on surfaces that take spin.
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Weird how Australia yesterday and England today are getting wickets by bowling on or just back of a length and drying up runs first.
Listening to some players and pundits you'd think you can only get wickets if you've been driven back down the ground for a few boundaries first. ;)
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Couple of good sessions for England. Could have been excellent sessions if Buttler had taken his chances.
Agree that Leach hasn't bowled well. Very legside and negative.
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Please don't let this slip
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Don't agree at all that Leach is a "terrible bowler". He's massively undercooked, not been backed by England management over the entire year and has had to deal with the psychological impact of taking a scapegoating in the media for a shocking first Test bowling performance from the whole team.
He's shown before what he's capable of when he's actually given a run and the opportunity to bowl on surfaces that take spin.
Terrible is harsh but hes clearly not a test quality bowler. If we stuck in another batsmen who bowls some part time spin in the lineup we would probably be better off. Cant be any less effective than Leach has been.
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Terrible is harsh but hes clearly not a test quality bowler. If we stuck in another batsmen who bowls some part time spin in the lineup we would probably be better off. Cant be any less effective than Leach has been.
Averages a shade over 30 in tests, mid 20s in FC cricket. Pretty respectable IMO. Last Ashes I thought he bowled well, just a shame Silverwood has refused to back him.
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Averages a shade over 30 in tests, mid 20s in FC cricket. Pretty respectable IMO. Last Ashes I thought he bowled well, just a shame Silverwood has refused to back him.
Ill admit judging him on an Ashes tour isnt fair. Australia is a wasteland for spinners but i think my point, for this tour at least, about sticking in another part timer still stands for how hes playing right now. Clearly needs more time in FC as hes massively out of nick but at 30 years old im not sure how much more England should 'invest' into him if hes going to be this sporadic with his performances. Feels more like hes a sacrificial lamb/scapegoat on a tour the ECB has written off as something they are doing purely for money.
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Wil admit I'd love to see Parkinson given a chance. Similar FC average to Leach but a bit more incisive.
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Putting Crawley in worked well then
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Averaging 7.5 for the first wicket. Christ.
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Does Root fancy opening. He basically ends up doing it every game anyway.
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Hopeless. Absolutely hopeless.
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Well done bowlers!
Test cricket: you play your specialist batters and specialist bowlers and not part timers!
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That's the game lost then
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This is beyond embarrassing now. Just have to hope this leads to some significant changes.
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This is beyond embarrassing now. Just have to hope this leads to some significant changes.
Whats a significant change though? We cant magically find a better squad.
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Whats a significant change though? We cant magically find a better squad.
I'm talking about the England test set up more widely, rather than just rotating players in and out of the team for this series.
Review the coaching personnel, the selection group, the approach to integrating new players into the side, etc. Not suggesting it's a silver bullet but I don't think anyone is going to suggest they're getting the best out of what they have currently.
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WI in Feb could be interesting. Will be fascinating to see how much change can actually be delivered.
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I'm talking about the England test set up more widely, rather than just rotating players in and out of the team for this series.
Review the coaching personnel, the selection group, the approach to integrating new players into the side, etc. Not suggesting it's a silver bullet but I don't think anyone is going to suggest they're getting the best out of what they have currently.
It will be interesting whether the ECB bury their heads in the sand and just write this off as another Ashes away lose. Or actually try and do something about it and sack some people, change some structures etc....
It wouldn't surprise me if they do nothing
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Just watching the end of play and brief highlights this morning, I'm not sure I'd be too harsh on the top order in this innings. That's just some very good bowling in very difficult conditions. Not that it excuses anything which has gone before.
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It will be interesting whether the ECB bury their heads in the sand and just write this off as another Ashes away lose. Or actually try and do something about it and sack some people, change some structures etc....
It wouldn't surprise me if they do nothing
This series will be written off. We will compete, possibly win, in WI. ECB will claim there is nothing to see. If change isn't implemented by WI matches, there lies danger in false lessons from the Carribbean and home summer.
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Love seeing the big Victorian Scotty Boland ripping out a couple of poles!
Root hiding at 4, despite the peasants batting in the top 3. Shows he only cares about stat padding. The lack of heart from Root epitomises the English team.
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Love seeing the big Victorian Scotty Boland ripping out a couple of poles!
Root hiding at 4, despite the peasants batting in the top 3. Shows he only cares about stat padding. The lack of heart from Root epitomises the English team.
Top trolling mate, hope you get some bites 🤦♂️
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I'm talking about the England test set up more widely, rather than just rotating players in and out of the team for this series.
Review the coaching personnel, the selection group, the approach to integrating new players into the side, etc. Not suggesting it's a silver bullet but I don't think anyone is going to suggest they're getting the best out of what they have currently.
Anything but admit what is really destroying English cricket.
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Putting Crawley in worked well then
Did anyone expect it to?
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Has the fat lady sung yet?
It ain’t over yet.
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Has the fat lady sung yet?
It ain’t over yet.
If Root gets 150+ we may manage to set them a target.
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If Root gets 150+ we may manage to set them a target.
Who’s going to bat long enough with him to get him there?
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Who’s going to bat long enough with him to get him there?
maybe Jos can bat 200 balls for 15 again? 😁
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Has the fat lady sung yet?
It ain’t over yet.
If everyone bats to their average we’ll set them 135 to win. That’s a huge IF
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I would love it, absolutely love it, if Jos could go into successful ODI Jos- mode. He just needs to get to 20 and cut loose. Same with Stokes and Bairstow really.
Maybe I'll subscribe to BT sport just for this ☺️
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As long they don't decide to select specialist batters and bowlers and accordingly to the Pitches and weather conditions, there will always be struggle.
Resulting into wasting players!
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As long they don't decide to select specialist batters and bowlers and accordingly to the Pitches and weather conditions, there will always be struggle.
Resulting into wasting players!
What are you talking about? Who are the Australian condition specialists that they should have selected but haven’t?
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So how come Aus and NZ can still put out decent quality test sides (batters and bowlers), despite the lure of countless T20 tournaments for their players - and we can't?
I'm assuming the competitiveness and timing of their domestic season has something to do with it?
Plenty of their players play both formats successfully - Smith, Warner, Williamson, Boult etc.
Simplify the whole discussion - what are they doing right, that we are doing wrong? I'm sure Hameed, Crawley, Robinson, LEach have the same aount of raw talent and potential as young Kiwis and Aussie A-teamers - so what is wrong?
Silverwood?
Root?
The timing of our first-class season?
A historical obsession with white-ball cricket (blame the Bayliss regime)
ps - Leach is not the real deal, his ave. away from Taunton should confirm this - here's one for you - Monty Panesar, with all his limitations, was a significantly better bowler.
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Potential solutions:
Throw the baby out with the bathwater - it can't do any worse!
Change the FC season back to playing at more suitable times of the year
Top 12 counties to be pro, well funded in 2 divisions with bursaries for 2 x quality overseas each, 10 x first class games per season plus a finale and relegation playoffs
Remaining counties to be semi-pro, used as pathway for young trialists/Unicorns - player loans from bigger counties to give youngsters on the sidelines games (ahem Surrey)
Silverwood out, replaced by a hard-nosed overseas coach with international experience, supported by 3 x English recently retired pros on County Watch
Root removed from captaincy, and left to be our GOAT batsman
County pitches made mandatory to be conducive to spin on day 3 or 4
A bit of f*cking national pride, and value for your place - lower the central contract salary and increase performance relaled bonuses
Some sh*t hot coaches in the batting, fielding and bowling roles - Colly, KP, Anderson, Tresco, Broad - anyone who tells it like it is and is fresh to the game
I'm sure many will argue the toss over many of these points - they are just an opinion. However, we were a really good test side not so long ago, and someone has to do something to stop this malaise.
Root, Stokes, Robinson, Archer should all be world-class - Hameed, Crawley, Foakes, Stone, Mahmood and Parkinson could all be something with the right help.
Watching this debacle down under is sooooo frustrating - and someone with half a brain in the England set-up should be looking at how to put it right over the next 18 months.
I have the raving hump.
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Time for the ECB to put their focus back on test cricket. We have won all the shorter format world cups, so time to focus on the purest forms of the game before we end up bottom of the pile and end up having to play tests against Ireland.
Bring back Sir Strauss. Sack Wheelie bin and Silverwood.
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Let's be honest, who is captaining this side if Root were to get given the boot? And please don't say Stokes
Everything is just a mess...
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Let's be honest, who is captaining this side if Root were to get given the boot? And please don't say Stokes
Everything is just a mess...
I know,Honestly can’t see any other option captaincy wise :\
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Well - we need to find one and sharpish, because Root aint no test captain, and it's a job that runs the risk of ruining and disenchanting our potential greatest.
Stokes
Foakes
Morgan
Bat Woakes at 3 and Captain
County Championship winning captain
Darren Stevens
Me
God, I don't know!!!!
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Is there a specialist captain who is highly thought of in the county championship? What about the Somerset guy, Abell?
I agree that Root ain’t a good captain.
Too much I feel for stokes, maybe he wants it? Not sure he is even an all rounder anymore. Not ideal timing given he has only come back from a break.
Ummmmm, let’s just ask King Strauss- he knows all the answers to everything.
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Sir Samuel Billings for captain.
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Replacing Root isn't gonna make this group of players any better though is it really? You can't say Root hasn't lead from the front either, he's been outstanding this year.
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I don’t think Root is a very good captain but he is now in the same position Cook was in that there is no one obvious to take the job on, so he may well remain in place.
Despite the handicap of our domestic cricket I still think we could do better if selection and senior management are right.
I would like to see Giles and Silverwood dumped as soon as possible.
No objection at all to a foreign coach but Strauss should be in the Giles role
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Root was never captain material. It was a big mistake to appoint him as the captain.
This ENG performance is worse than 2013/2014 because there is no Mitchel Johnson and his chin music.
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Sir Samuel Billings for captain.
Good piece on Sam Billings in The Cricketer this month. Highlights exactly what is wrong with English cricket. He has become a wealthy man; but has actually played very little for a cricketer of his age.
(Cue loads of "wouldn't you?" responses.)
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Is there a specialist captain who is highly thought of in the county championship? What about the Somerset guy, Abell?
Ah, the Championship!
I'm sorry, but they will absolutely not bring in a captain
from outside the set-up. And nor should they as things stand.
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People said Burns could be Captain in the last series when he scored runs and people decided England had found an opener.
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@Bats_Entertainment - They will absolutely not - but should they?
Isn't the definition of madness, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?
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People said Burns could be Captain in the last series when he scored runs and people decided England had found an opener.
English form seems to desert so quickly -
Burns = Poo
Hammed = Poo
Sibley = Poo
Crawley = Poo
Malan = Up and Down
Root = Ok
Stokes = Flatters at the mo
Pope = Poo
Lawrence = Who knows?
Butler = Poo
Bairstow = Ok
Foakes = Who Knows?
Woakes = Up and Down
Buttler = Poo
Robinson = Pretty Good
Broad = Up and Down
Leach = Poo
Wood = Ok
Broad = Up and Down
Anderson = Ok
Pick an XI from that lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - My God, we are so off the boil.
Who stuck theior hand up from the Lions - I'm thinking they might fill a few slots over the next 12 months?
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@Bats_Entertainment - They will absolutely not - but should they?
Isn't the definition of madness, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?
I said nor should they as things stand.
Yes, they should be able to. But a system (ie a domestic structure) that enables it would need to be in place.
But I don't think we should be pointing the finger at Root anyway. It's the other batsmen that repeatedly let us down.
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if you picked as side from that lot, you would have -
Malan
Root
Woakes
Stokes
Bairstow
Lawrence
Foakes
Robinson
Wood
Broad
Anderson
Not bad on paper!
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Joe Root is the finest England cricketer I have seen. So he's a bit more than 'okay' in my book!
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But I don't think we should be pointing the finger at Root anyway. It's the other batsmen that repeatedly let us down.
I totally get that, sadly I feel the captaincy is a burden on our best batsman that he shouldn't have - a more cynical nation might pick a sacrificial lamb for 12 months until things get better - ie Payne.
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Joe Root is the finest England cricketer I have seen. So he's a bit more than 'okay' in my book!
I'm talking about his current form, rather than his legacy - other than that, I agree with you - one of the absolute tiptop.
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Averaging just south of 50 in the series so far, not too shabby...
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The delusional Poms make me laugh. Acting like a no mark like Foakes is a test cricketer. We Aussies have already busted the myth of Burns and Pope. Boost their averages at the Oval. But no real talent when the pitch isn’t a flat as a motorway. Foakes another Oval cement pitch hype merchant. Line him and the Cartel will end his career as well.
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The delusional Poms make me laugh. Acting like a no mark like Foakes is a test cricketer. We Aussies have already busted the myth of Burns and Pope. Boost their averages at the Oval. But no real talent when the pitch isn’t a flat as a motorway. Foakes another Oval cement pitch hype merchant. Line him and the Cartel will end his career as well.
"The Cartel" 😂 how much did you have to drink on Christmas to still be feeling it now?
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Averaging just south of 50 in the series so far, not too shabby...
Yep, don't get me wrong - I'm a huge Root fan, and wish him the best.
I can't call stats up like some, I just feel his recent scores have been up and down, and not consistent.
Happy to be proven wrong, but if I'm right, I'm sure it's due to the pressure of captaincy - I stand by my stance that he shouldn't be captain and a sacrificial lamb should be chosen.
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"The Cartel" 😂 how much did you have to drink on Christmas to still be feeling it now?
@Jimbo - try not to walk over the Troll's bridge with your nut-sack hanging down - they will bite!
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Yep, don't get me wrong - I'm a huge Root fan, and wish him the best.
I can't call stats up like some, I just feel his recent scores have been up and down, and not consistent.
Happy to be proven wrong, but if I'm right, I'm sure it's due to the pressure of captaincy - I stand by my stance that he shouldn't be captain and a sacrificial lamb should be chosen.
He's averaged over 60 for the calendar year, is that possible without pretty consistent performances?
Think there's always going to be ups and downs but he's scored a ton in about one in every 4/5 innings this year, IIRC 10 scores of 50+, and he's batting with absolutely no support from his teammates.
Don't disagree with you on the captaincy, don't hate the idea of Tom Abell skippering and batting somewhere in the top 6.
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Burns would have been a good sacrificial lamb as you say but he's just been taken out of the side, they won't give the captaincy to a bowler so what other option do you have? Stokes?
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I guess Bairstow is another good sacrificial option.
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Can I ask why everyone think Root is a bad captain?
He has just had his best year yet with the bat so if the captaincy is effecting his batting then I would love to see what he would do without it!
Is he not a leader? His on field captaincy not up to it?
Or is it that he has an awful management team behind him that haven't helped him at all one bit and if he had the right team etc.... he might actually do alright?
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Can I ask why everyone think Root is a bad captain?
He has just had his best year yet with the bat so if the captaincy is effecting his batting then I would love to see what he would do without it!
Is he not a leader? His on field captaincy not up to it?
Or is it that he has an awful management team behind him that haven't helped him at all one bit and if he had the right team etc.... he might actually do alright?
👍
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Scoring average of 50 and you guys talking about replacing Skipper! Something is worth you guys!
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He doesn't seem to be in command of his own bowling attack
I'm not sure he has any influence on selection
There seems to be times when he doesn't have a plan B when things aren't going right
He looks tired, pissed off, lacking spark and worn down by the captaincy - why saddle your best batsamn with this?
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Don't disagree with you on the captaincy, don't hate the idea of Tom Abell skippering and batting somewhere in the top 6.
I don’t think any Somerset batsman is deserved of a call up based on batting performance in the last year. There are some to look out for in the future though.
I’m open to Root losing the captaincy, but there’s just no one there to do it. If you were going to bring someone in from outside the setup, you’d want them to have the miles as captain on the clock, an elder statesmen, to have a record of winning in the longer format. Someone who could command respect immediately. Pair that with a decent first class average and I think the state of team makes that an acceptable move. What’s Vince up to hahaha
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Can I ask why everyone think Root is a bad captain?
He has just had his best year yet with the bat so if the captaincy is effecting his batting then I would love to see what he would do without it!
Is he not a leader? His on field captaincy not up to it?
Or is it that he has an awful management team behind him that haven't helped him at all one bit and if he had the right team etc.... he might actually do alright?
He is batting well we get stuffed even more than without him. I don’t think he is an instinctive Captain who handles the bowlers very well.
Whether some of our bowlers are a bit too powerful in the team who knows.
I think our best captains recently even when we were poor had good coaches to work with, Nasser,Strauss,Vaughan.
But totally agree with you it’s the management that needs replacing.
Personally I think we need an experienced Coach to guide Root. Someone like a Fletcher
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He doesn't seem to be in command of his own bowling attack
I'm not sure he has any influence on selection
There seems to be times when he doesn't have a plan B when things aren't going right
He looks tired, pissed off, lacking spark and worn down by the captaincy - why saddle your best batsamn with this?
Most likely he's got minimal influence on selection.
When the team isn't performing to their abilities, then it's natural for players to be frustrated, I'm sure he's not worn out, otherwise he wouldn't be scoring those runs.
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I don’t think any Somerset batsman is deserved of a call up based on batting performance in the last year. There are some to look out for in the future though.
I’m open to Root losing the captaincy, but there’s just no one there to do it. If you were going to bring someone in from outside the setup, you’d want them to have the miles as captain on the clock, an elder statesmen, to have a record of winning in the longer format. Someone who could command respect immediately. Pair that with a decent first class average and I think the state of team makes that an acceptable move. What’s Vince up to hahaha
Really good point. #VinceEnglandcaptain
He can bat five and chill if we bat first. He can also make plans with the England bowling attack as we reach 27-3
But actually,not a bad shout lol
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Why not ask Morgan to do it? Short format specialist obviously but he has a great cricket brain and is a proper leader. He might not break any runs records but he'd be hard pushed to do worse with the bat than most of these.
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He;d probably score more runs than Hameed / Crawley / Burns
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All over by lunch today right?
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Can I ask why everyone think Root is a bad captain?
He has just had his best year yet with the bat so if the captaincy is effecting his batting then I would love to see what he would do without it!
Is he not a leader? His on field captaincy not up to it?
Or is it that he has an awful management team behind him that haven't helped him at all one bit and if he had the right team etc.... he might actually do alright?
For me there's an issue with some of his tactical decision making - it's all very reactive rather than proactive.
My biggest problem with his captaincy though is with his management of individuals; I don't think he gets the best out of players or creates the conditions for them to thrive. I'm thinking in particular about his treatment of Moeen when he threw him under a bus. He bowled Archer into the ground and out of this series with a stress fracture.
I didn't like him having a public go at the bowlers for bowling too short in the second test when subsequent comments from Anderson suggested that those comments hadn't been made in private first.
So yeah, great batsman but I don't think he's the kind of leader that is going to inspire people to run through walls so lets let him focus on the day job.
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All over by lunch today right?
No, I think we'll drag it out far enough to cover over some of the cracks. Like the 90s team we often get the odd individual performance when the pressure of playing to win has been lifted.
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I’ll be amazed if this lasts more than an hour.
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If I was England I would get Mike Hesson involved somehow. He is the reason NZ is where it is now. Not from an old boys club, not an ex-international or first class player, just a smart cricket brain who's not afraid of making the tough decisions (Cut Taylor early doors for McCullum).
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Watching live again...because I miss the misery.
My only hope is that Root scores a few, as he's the only ENG batsman that deserves them.
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As I said earlier, over by lunch
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Decent ball from Starc. Not many/5
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Stokes has looked very average, no surprise really.
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Watching live again...because I miss the misery.
My only hope is that Root scores a few, as he's the only ENG batsman that deserves them.
I'm just hoping for whatever is funniest now, and I can't work out if that's Root getting out on 99 or 107
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I'm just hoping for whatever is funniest now, and I can't work out if that's Root getting out on 99 or 107
OK Root retiring hurt on 99 after being hit in the nuts is actually the funniest outcome and I think that's what I'm going to pray for
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I'm just hoping for whatever is funniest now, and I can't work out if that's Root getting out on 99 or 107
How about him getting hit in the box again :o :D
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I think Root is going to find out if you can actually get a swelling on a swelling :o
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ooof, umpires call on hitting in line and hitting the stumps
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Bairstow out. Think that was a poor call from the umpire - no way could he be sure it hit him in line.
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That is...rough
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Two rubbish calls from Wilson. If you have to think about it that long then it's not out.
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ooof, umpires call on hitting in line and hitting the stumps
Part of me does think that there should only be one umpire's call allowed per decision...
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Balls.
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Can’t see the tail lasting long here. Hopefully we can make them bat again though
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Two rubbish calls from Wilson. If you have to think about it that long then it's not out.
Not sour grapes as the Aussies have clearly been better than us in all departments but have to agree that is very poor umpiring. The benefit of doubt generally goes to the batsman and in that instance surely there was enough doubt to give it not out. Then let the Aussies refer it. Afraid Mr Wilson appears to be a little bit of a “Homer”! I’ve always thought Rifle is a pretty sound Umpire though.
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Embarrassment the lot of them.
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well that's not funny at all
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BT Sport should offer refunds for making us watch this tripe.
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Not sour grapes as the Aussies have clearly been better than us in all departments but have to agree that is very poor umpiring. The benefit of doubt generally goes to the batsman and in that instance surely there was enough doubt to give it not out. Then let the Aussies refer it. Afraid Mr Wilson appears to be a little bit of a “Homer”! I’ve always thought Rifle is a pretty sound Umpire though.
tbf benefit of the doubt goes to the batsman is a long standing tradition not because it's the right thing to do but because batsmen are cry babies.
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BT Sport should offer refunds for making us watch this tripe.
At least they finally decided to pay some people to provide some half-decent commentary it only took them until the third test
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Pathetic. 12th choice seamer has 5/5.
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On the plus side, we have now equalled the all-time duck record for a calendar year.
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tbf benefit of the doubt goes to the batsman is a long standing tradition not because it's the right thing to do but because batsmen are cry babies.
It is you are right but it’s a tradition which seems to be adhered to most of the time. Doubt of height and line but hey ho, let’s just give it. Anyway, unfortunately pretty irrelevant now!😂
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This is sad! Hope there is redemption for the English team in last 2 games.
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It is you are right but it’s a tradition which seems to be adhered to most of the time. Doubt of height and line but hey ho, let’s just give it. Anyway, unfortunately pretty irrelevant now!😂
if he gave it out he probably didn't have doubt about the height or line
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Australians cannot win with class. It's just not in their DNA.
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Well on the bright side everyone can go back to bed at a somewhat normal time
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Game over. Wonder if Silverwood will front up to the media, or do his usual coward act.
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Happy for Boland, a nice story.
This is the lowest of the low for the England test side though.
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This is sad! Hope there is redemption for the English team in last 2 games.
Hope not, Thelma thing we need is one decent result letting the ECB try and paper over the cracks.
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We’ll win one of the dead rubber tests and all will be forgotten :D
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Have to feel for Jimmy after his spell with the ball. I wonder how the captain and management will manage to pin this loss on the bowlers...
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It is pretty impressive to manage to lose by an innings when your opponent only scores 267.
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It is pretty impressive to manage to lose by an innings when your opponent only scores 267.
This puts the batting failure into perspective, goddamn
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So bad. A decent Australian side bit still with no real class in its soul- they just aren't made that way. Tim Paine is crying
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So far this series:
Australia 1415 runs, losing 39 wickets. 36.28 per wicket
England 1126 runs, losing 60 wickets. 18.77 per wicket.
18.77 per wicket. Let that sink in.
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Good luck to Boland!
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So far this series:
Australia 1415 runs, losing 39 wickets. 36.28 per wicket
England 1126 runs, losing 60 wickets. 18.77 per wicket.
18.77 per wicket. Let that sink in.
Take out Root and Malan and it must be around single figures!
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Take out Root and Malan and it must be around single figures!
Nearly. Take out their 455 and reduce the wickets to 54 and the average per wicket is 12.43.
These people get paid to play cricket.
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Wonder which way we’ll go from here. Will we rip it all up and make the sweeping changes needed or hide behind PR statements and carry on the same way.
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Wonder which way we’ll go from here. Will we rip it all up and make the sweeping changes needed or hide behind PR statements and carry on the same way.
The latter, for sure. As I said. Just hope Root doesn’t batter a double ton on the last test and give the ECB something to hang onto.
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It amazes me how we seem perpetually focused on an Ashes series down under. Two years of rotation and ‘planning’ to end up with an opening partnership consisting of a bloke with incredibly low hands who is in no way suited to Aussie conditions and a 23 year-old who is only in consideration because his dad is rich.
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Silverwood is a deluded fool. Positives from this match? Seriously?
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Silverwood is a deluded fool. Positives from this match? Seriously?
One of those management speak-isms. Why can they not just admit they haven't been good enough?
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He knows his best XI too apparently. That’s good then.
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One of those management speak-isms. Why can they not just admit they haven't been good enough?
Publicly berating your team has very little upside, especially when you are stuck with that group for another 2 games.
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Australians cannot win with class. It's just not in their DNA.
I must have missed seeing them doing the sprinkler dance then.
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What a mess. Australia should burn the bails again.
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Australians cannot win with class. It's just not in their DNA.
But Australians can lose with dignity. For example, in 2005 at the Oval, the team stayed on the ground as a unit during Englands massive victory celebrations and presentation of the Ashes. England Captain was on his own today at the MCG.
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What a beautiful win and to see a Victorian bury the Poms at the G! Priceless.
These Pommie tears will be very satisfying.
Let’s get that 5-0 again.
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What a beautiful win and to see a Victorian bury the Poms at the G! Priceless.
These Pommie tears will be very satisfying.
Let’s get that 5-0 again.
Congratulations mate. Aussies have been far and away the better side and have dished us out a well deserved mauling. Welcome to the forum btw!
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I actually feel for the players a little. They're just not good enough at present, haven't been prepared for this and are facing an extremely high class Aussie attack on home soil. Extremely difficult to come back once they had us on the rack. That said, you'd expect more fight but i do have some sympathy, as professional sportsman i can't have that they're not trying. The issues here run deeper than the captain and players for me. This will take sometime to put right i fear.
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Ribbing aside, there’s not that much disparity between the sides if everyone is honest.
We have Warner, Marnus and Smith offset by Harris, Head, Green and Carey. Smith hasn’t really shown up so far.
England are heavily reliant on Root and Malan has been solid at times.
Both bowling attacks are of similar quality, but England make poor selections that hindered them in all three tests. Broad missing out in Brisbane and Melbourne beggars belief.
As an Aussie, I’d love to say “we are back” but just 11 months ago this same team got outclassed by an Indian side picking randoms out of nowhere.
India/New Zealand are the benchmark that everyone else needs to match.
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Ribbing aside, there’s not that much disparity between the sides if everyone is honest.
We have Warner, Marnus and Smith offset by Harris, Head, Green and Carey. Smith hasn’t really shown up so far.
England are heavily reliant on Root and Malan has been solid at times.
Both bowling attacks are of similar quality, but England make poor selections that hindered them in all three tests. Broad missing out in Brisbane and Melbourne beggars belief.
As an Aussie, I’d love to say “we are back” but just 11 months ago this same team got outclassed by an Indian side picking randoms out of nowhere.
India/New Zealand are the benchmark that everyone else needs to match.
The Aussies have a few bankers batting wise, England really only have one in Root. Same with the bowling department,you have guys like Cummins who is absolutely brilliant,Stark has had a good series. And the strength in depth in the bowling department has been impressive. And a quality spinner. The English bowling attack looks a bit tired and toothless,hardly surprising as they never have a rest.Australia field well and take catches, have been ruthless and are super confident.
The two sides are polar opposites at the moment
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That new chap 'Extras' has batted quite well in Tests for us this year. Third highest scorer with 412...proper village!
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For me the key factor of ending up losing so badly, is the opening partnership!
They took all the positives from 1st Delivery of this Ashes, convincing themselves, this Ashes is theirs!
When you keep losing 2 wickets cheaply, in no time, then there's huge burden on the rest of the batters!
What's the total openers have scored in the laat 6 inning?
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59808295 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59808295)
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We have supposedly been preparing 2 years for this.
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We have supposedly been preparing 2 years for this.
Giles also said after the 50 over win test cricket would be given priority, that and the planning for this series are two huge lies told by those who run the game.
Management have go to be replaced I’ve got no issue with the players. We know they are not good enough.
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Giles also said after the 50 over win test cricket would be given priority, that and the planning for this series are two huge lies told by those who run the game.
Management have go to be replaced I’ve got no issue with the players. We know they are not good enough.
I agree the players aren’t good enough to match Australia. But there are some talented players here too. It’s up to management to get the most out of a player, that’s pretty much their job description. Under the right management group I think one or two of the players in the squad might come good.
That’s obviously just my opinion and major changes still need to be made to the scheduling and the core players. I don’t know how this group of players can get the monkey off their shoulders. It’s not possible but I’d be inclined to just replace the 10 (minus root) for the final 2 tests and see if the English lads in the Big Bash want a test and tell them just to play with freedom.
Surely that can’t be worse than 68 all out.
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68!?!?!?!?!?
We are terrible.
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I agree the players aren’t good enough to match Australia. But there are some talented players here too. It’s up to management to get the most out of a player, that’s pretty much their job description. Under the right management group I think one or two of the players in the squad might come good.
That’s obviously just my opinion and major changes still need to be made to the scheduling and the core players. I don’t know how this group of players can get the monkey off their shoulders. It’s not possible but I’d be inclined to just replace the 10 (minus root) for the final 2 tests and see if the English lads in the Big Bash want a test and tell them just to play with freedom.
Surely that can’t be worse than 68 all out.
Your right it is a management role to get the best out of the players we have but replacing them with short form names will not build a side for tests.
As much as this may not make any sense now I would still pick the young batsmen, our bowling seems the best compared to batting over the last couple of years.
I would keep these and hopefully the come good, I cannot see any other option
Malan has done ok
Hameed
Crawley
Lawrence
Pope
Sibley
Root
Stokes
Out go
Butler
Bairstow
Burns
Keeper Foakes.
I don’t actually think Crawley is an opening bat but Malan could move up.
There is no way Root can manage on his own, we need a good coach to guide young players.
Silverwood and Giles have simply got to go.
That’s what I think anyway, we have actually got worse as a team over the last 2 years
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Gary Kirsten in to run the red ball team, Farbrace in to run the white ball.
Bring back a chief selector but have different selection and scouting teams for red and white ball - skillsets and knowledge required are so different now.
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Gary Kirsten in to run the red ball team, Farbrace in to run the white ball.
Bring back a chief selector but have different selection and scouting teams for red and white ball - skillsets and knowledge required are so different now.
Yes agree with that. The system of County cricket will not change, one day cricket is financially too big, so it’s got to be worked around.
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Gary Kirsten in to run the red ball team, Farbrace in to run the white ball.
Bring back a chief selector but have different selection and scouting teams for red and white ball - skillsets and knowledge required are so different now.
Absolutely this.... I would add....
Buttler to go to white ball only, to then become captain when Morgan retires.
ECB to beg Strauss to return after sacking off Giles.
Mo Bobat to also get the boot , he couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery! If you have listened to Aggers TMS podcast about Preparation for the Ashes, he is on that talking so much and literally nothing happened.
One of the Blast or the 100 to be binned, can't have both as takes up too much time in the peak of summer, but the Counties need 1 of them for revenue. Preferably the one which is the shortest for the most pay back. Leaving more time at the right time for the CC.
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I agree the players aren’t good enough to match Australia. But there are some talented players here too. It’s up to management to get the most out of a player, that’s pretty much their job description. Under the right management group I think one or two of the players in the squad might come good.
That’s obviously just my opinion and major changes still need to be made to the scheduling and the core players. I don’t know how this group of players can get the monkey off their shoulders. It’s not possible but I’d be inclined to just replace the 10 (minus root) for the final 2 tests and see if the English lads in the Big Bash want a test and tell them just to play with freedom.
Surely that can’t be worse than 68 all out.
Totally agree with this. Yes, we aren't the most talented squad in the world but even so we are still massive underachievers and the management have to be held accountable for that. We see it all the time in other sports where a good manager will eek out the very best from a team of average players. All we are currently doing is making a group of average red ball players and making them look completely useless.
We all know it wasn't the perfect setup with no warm up matches and the whole covid situation but the biggest problem is that they seemingly have no belief and no fight within the squad and that is the fault of the management. It rolls down the hill.....
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https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/dec/28/after-awful-ashes-defeat-will-england-will-ever-be-good-at-test-cricket-again-cricket-australia (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/dec/28/after-awful-ashes-defeat-will-england-will-ever-be-good-at-test-cricket-again-cricket-australia)
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https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/dec/28/after-awful-ashes-defeat-will-england-will-ever-be-good-at-test-cricket-again-cricket-australia (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/dec/28/after-awful-ashes-defeat-will-england-will-ever-be-good-at-test-cricket-again-cricket-australia)
This is such a good article!!
The comparison with the West Indies circa 2000 is an interesting one.
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This is such a good article!!
Yes, excellent.
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He knows his best XI too apparently. That’s good then.
Yes, once the game is finished he knows what his best XI would have been. Then he picks that XI for the next match.
If only they'd stop changing grounds and conditions between games it would be a totally foolproof strategy.
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This is such a good article!!
The comparison with the West Indies circa 2000 is an interesting one.
I agree! I like Jonathan Lieu a lot, the chap who wrote the article. The West Indies comparison seems quite valid I think. Perhaps they should look at the New Zealand model- they are a good side and seem to get the best out of the players they have.
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I agree! I like Jonathan Lieu a lot, the chap who wrote the article. The West Indies comparison seems quite valid I think. Perhaps they should look at the New Zealand model- they are a good side and seem to get the best out of the players they have.
NZ model is great but their "no dickheads" rule would leave most of county cricket bereft of players let alone the test team...
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Why would anyone expect a representative side to be strong if the the very thing it represents is not valued?
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English cricket does not exist to create an England team. The England team exists to represent English cricket.
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NZ model is great but their "no dickheads" rule would leave most of county cricket bereft of players let alone the test team...
The Adam Parore rule is something the ECB should certainly look at.
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Just googled this no dickheads rule-seems to come from NZ rugby, maybe the cricket team have taken this on and it works for them.
However as fans if we had a choice of some dickheads, read difficult to manage, or nice but below average talent we would take the dickheads, let’s say
KP
Thorpe
hussein
Over some of the current team it’s no contest.
If you happen to be close to the best in the world with all great blokes fantastic. But it doesn’t really work like that, NZ cricket team perhaps the exception.
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Our batting has been very poor for some time.
Who is coaching the batting?
What are the batters doing in the nets to change this?
Perhaps there is no desire for change or an inability to see the truth.
Is the captain and coach addressing the group to try to change things and are they being listened to?
Something doesn't add up here - if I represented England and was being paid £210k per year plus endorsements, I would make damn f*cking sure I didn't lose the gig. and I listened to my wise coaches, about what was required to succeed
Ergo - wrong players or wrong coaches
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How strict would you be on a no dickheads rule? Surely Kohli is one of the biggest dickheads in world cricket?
Most of us will have played in teams that have dickheads in them at some stage and know how it can suck the energy out of everyone....
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How strict would you be on a no dickheads rule? Surely Kohli is one of the biggest dickheads in world cricket?
Most of us will have played in teams that have dickheads in them at some stage and know how it can suck the energy out of everyone....
Think Eoin Morgan strong, against the likes of Alex Hales knob jockeys.
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How strict would you be on a no dickheads rule? Surely Kohli is one of the biggest dickheads in world cricket?
Most of us will have played in teams that have dickheads in them at some stage and know how it can suck the energy out of everyone....
At the moment I would take 6 dickheads who could bat in a shot!
The current lot not being able to get things right is nothing to do with whether there a dickhead or not.
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Still nobody's looking beyond changing the players and/or the coach! Who the hell are we going to change them for?
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One grassroots level suggestion - one two-day game a season, perhaps between local rivals or something.
A local test match, if you will. In Australia they play a LOT of two day matches.
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Your teams seem to be good blokes. I maybe unqualified to say but I can't see too many dick heads in your set up at that moment.
How did England and Ireland's Rugby teams get to where they are now? They used to be easy beats but now we (The All Blacks) often lose to them. Maybe look down that path.
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The cricket season lasts 23-24 weeks. 10 CC matches per season in decent conditions shouldn’t prove that difficult. One in April, two in May, two in June, one in July, one in August, three in September. Done.
Bin the 50 over comp. Make the format international only, as let’s face it, if you’re a 20 over slogger you’re going to be earmarked by the ECB as a 50 over slogger.
Produce pitches that require bowlers to bend their backs and that accept spin after a couple of days. End the era of green tops - all they do is prolong careers of 45 year old trundles.
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Boland has done alright opening his test account at 32. Personally I think a bit more age/cricket experience in our red ball side is necessary.
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Did someone say something about a "no dickheads" rule?
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Boland has done alright opening his test account at 32. Personally I think a bit more age/cricket experience in our red ball side is necessary.
Boland was a horses for courses pick, and has a decent chance of being a one test wonder. Identifying, backing and persevering with younger players is the way forward. However, strength in depth is key. There’s no point identifying and backing players because they are the least bad of a shallow pool of players. Look where that has gotten us with Sibley, Hameed, Crawley, Pope etc. They are the best of a bad bunch, and in any previous era would be nowhere near the test side.
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Boland was a horses for courses pick, and has a decent chance of being a one test wonder. Identifying, backing and persevering with younger players is the way forward. However, strength in depth is key. There’s no point identifying and backing players because they are the least bad of a shallow pool of players. Look where that has gotten us with Sibley, Hameed, Crawley, Pope etc. They are the best of a bad bunch, and in any previous era would be nowhere near the test side.
You don't half chat some rubbish. Go and watch some cricket.
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You don't half chat some rubbish. Go and watch some cricket.
:D lol...people in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones.
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Boland was a horses for courses pick, and has a decent chance of being a one test wonder. Identifying, backing and persevering with younger players is the way forward. However, strength in depth is key. There’s no point identifying and backing players because they are the least bad of a shallow pool of players. Look where that has gotten us with Sibley, Hameed, Crawley, Pope etc. They are the best of a bad bunch, and in any previous era would be nowhere near the test side.
The trouble is they've already walked that path. They have chosen stats/youth for our test cricket and that hasn't worked.
We are in dire straits with the red ball and need a new regime, learn from our white ball success and implement that single mindedness to our red ball setup.
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Our batting has been very poor for some time.
Who is coaching the batting?
What are the batters doing in the nets to change this?
Perhaps there is no desire for change or an inability to see the truth.
Is the captain and coach addressing the group to try to change things and are they being listened to?
Something doesn't add up here - if I represented England and was being paid £210k per year plus endorsements, I would make damn f*cking sure I didn't lose the gig. and I listened to my wise coaches, about what was required to succeed
Ergo - wrong players or wrong coaches
Perhaps it's the coaching at county level/County academy level that needs addressing. It's too late to change technical things the week of a test isn't it? We bring players to the England set-up with flawed techniques - why isn't that being addressed by the county coach?
I think Crawley is a fantastic player - but he seems to have a closed bat face all the time and doesn't play straight enough from what I've seen.
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Some of the comments about technical deficiencies amongst our younger players fail to fully understand the situation that has created them, namely the fact that first class cricket has been forced to the extremities of the season and, even when this process had not been completed, the promotion relegation imperative had not been well enough regulated, so Counties were getting away with producing deliberately poor pitches to force results. In such an environment, there is no shock that medium pacers who can make the ball talk take precedence over lean quicks who maybe just sit in the surface to be hit, nor is it a surprise that many batsmen adopt a mindset of "get some, before they get me".
Even when games are in the right part of the year, how many grounds produce good sporting pitches with pace and carry? I reckon from the cricket I have seen over the last five years that there are less than a handful left, and even the few that produce consistent bounce tend now to overly favour the batsmen (The Oval, I'm looking at you!)
Case in point - James Vince. A man with a Test career behind him that he would like, one imagines, to repurpose in front of him. Knowing that the most available slots in the England side were in the top three, he chose last year to move himself DOWN the batting order at Hampshire. One can only conclude that he felt he had more chance of convincing the selectors that he could move those runs up the order in Tests, than he had to actually score runs in the top three...
Second case in point - Ollie Pope. Its easy on recent form to suppose, as many of you have, that he is a busted flush, or that he was never of the required level in the first place. I thought about that view myself long and hard but I always come back to the hundred he made against Yorkshire a couple of years ago - against a top quality attack, on a difficult pitch he was simply in a different class to anyone else. My conclusion was that his issues largely stem from playing at The Oval because on a deck that benign, you can just walk down the wicket to quicks a few balls in because the ball is going nowhere!
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You can only play what you've got. If Kent produced their own Pat Cummins, I'm sure he'd play above the medium-fast they currently have. Fact is, we don't. In fact Kent's last home grown capped "quick" was Matt Coles, in 2012. Prior to that is was Alan Igglesden in 1989! That's pretty poor for a county with the population of Kent.
Australia currently just have better players to choose from, especially on the batting front. Our batsman don't seem to have a basic defence needed to succeed, whether you are facing Starc on a fairly flat one at Adelaide or Darren Stevens in swinging/seaming conditions at Canterbury.
I was quite encouraged by this team after the last South Africa tour , where they came back from 1-0 down and seemed to be learning to score big first innings runs against a decent South African attack. However they have seemingly gone rapidly downhill since the India tour this year. Perhaps their confidence is shot to bits or the environment isn't very good. Who knows.
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The India tour you refer to was the start of a rest and rotation policy which some of us understood was needed due to covid and the time spent in bubbles. It seemed to work out the rotation was prioritised for one day cricket so all format players would not miss the short form.
So Root had his hands tied from that tour onwards and perhaps why some of us have sympathy with his position still knowing he is not a very good Captain.
I’m convinced we need a management change rather than the merry go round of player changes.
I don’t look at the England team and say this or that player should play instead.
I hope we have a new coach and management structure for the WI tour with Buttler Bairstow and Burns replaced by the young batsmen already identified. And the best keeper in the Country.
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I'd love Buttler to succeed - I think he would have done in the Strauss/Cook/Trott etc. era when he could have been coming in with the score 250/300 for 5 and could play his natural aggressive game. Sadly that has never transpired as the top 5 as a unit have constantly failed to deliver. As things stand, I'd think Foakes should be playing.
If Buttler/Bairstow and Stokes want to succeed at test level, then I think they need to sacrifice the IPL money and play some red ball county cricket. The test arena isn't the place to learn on the job.
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I'd love Buttler to succeed - I think he would have done in the Strauss/Cook/Trott etc. era when he could have been coming in with the score 250/300 for 5 and could play his natural aggressive game. Sadly that has never transpired as the top 5 as a unit have constantly failed to deliver. As things stand, I'd think Foakes should be playing.
If Buttler/Bairstow and Stokes want to succeed at test level, then I think they need to sacrifice the IPL money and play some red ball county cricket. The test arena isn't the place to learn on the job.
It’s not for them to sacrifice, it’s for them to be enticed by the ECB. If they don’t want to play, no problem, it’s not as if we’re great with them in the side.
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-10352681/Ashes-Joe-Root-told-step-England-captain-Geoffrey-Boycott.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-10352681/Ashes-Joe-Root-told-step-England-captain-Geoffrey-Boycott.html)
I don't think Root should step down!
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Smart thing for Root would be to step down as captain after the series and just think about breaking batting records. He is playing well (not great) and can continue to score runs without the captaincy monkey.
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'Silverwood to miss fourth Ashes Test after being forced to isolate'
https://www.skysports.com/Cricket/12505953 (https://www.skysports.com/Cricket/12505953)
Can you imagine if we actually manage to win the next test.
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'Silverwood to miss fourth Ashes Test after being forced to isolate'
https://www.skysports.com/Cricket/12505953 (https://www.skysports.com/Cricket/12505953)
Can you imagine if we actually manage to win the next test.
The irony of it :) . His fate may already be made up.
Kirsten touted in the papers as being in line. Apart from the advantage of coaching other teams and having a decent test record I believe he is primarily a batting coach and boy do we need some help.
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2021/12/29/enough-enough-former-england-players-hit-ecb-blame-hundred-ashes/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2021/12/29/enough-enough-former-england-players-hit-ecb-blame-hundred-ashes/)
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I don't think that the performance this winter can be at all attributed to the ECB not paying sufficient attention to the preparation for this tour. The national set up is as well-resourced as it has ever been. The question is the contribution made by those who have been appointed to key roles. Silverwood cannot survive what has been an abject failure of his management but Giles should also follow him
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I understand that Gary Kirsten comes with a huge reputation but is his coaching ability ‘over hyped’?
Granted he lead the Indians to a World Cup and took both India & South Africa to top ranking in test cricket.
But working with Tendulkar, Sehwag, Dravid, Kallis, Steyn etc is a damn sight easier than what England are currently producing.
Kirsten might be a legendary coach or he might be a Guardiola that looks good when he’s got a bunch of legends in his corner.
Just my observation.
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Not sure Guardiola is the comparison you want given his record of developing talented players into world class performers.
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They are going to need somehow to get some Championship games in July and August but that’s easier said than done given the money involved for the hundred and 2020.
But we do need a world class coach. The batting has been a huge issue going back years not just this tour.
It was Fletcher that improved us batting wise a few years ago we need something similar.
The ECB have treated the test side as second best since our exit from the 2015 tournament, somehow it has to be balanced back
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I understand that Gary Kirsten comes with a huge reputation but is his coaching ability ‘over hyped’?
Granted he lead the Indians to a World Cup and took both India & South Africa to top ranking in test cricket.
But working with Tendulkar, Sehwag, Dravid, Kallis, Steyn etc is a damn sight easier than what England are currently producing.
Kirsten might be a legendary coach or he might be a Guardiola that looks good when he’s got a bunch of legends in his corner.
Just my observation.
Hmmm - Kirsten and some of his trusted lieutenants vs the current Gerry Cottle set-up?
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According to an interview on cricinfo Kirsten was interviewed last time round but made in clear it was one format or another not both
He is saying the same thing this time round- it needs different coaches.
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Wise man - someone needs to clean up the mess Bayliss / Giles / Harrison left behind
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Travis Head has tested positive for covid19. Mitch Marsh, Nic Maddison and Josh Inglis added to the squad. Wouldn’t be surprised if the remaining matches are binned off.
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Looks like the Aussies are scared of a comeback to 3 - 2 after looking like a whitewash. Typical!
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Seems like a no brainer with splitting the coaching roles, over the last two years it's been like that at times anyway. No reason why someone like Collingwood couldn't take on the limited overs job, at this point it's just an 'if it ain't broke don't fix it approach'
But then again, two years on the trot of ICC tournaments, I wonder where the ECB priorities will truly lie...
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Kirsten Doesn't mess about,does he?getting in there early declaring an interest and setting his non-negotiables. The jobs not even available yet!
I have heard good things about Graham Ford- Kirsten looks pretty intense,but he's a proven winner I guess.
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-10355821/amp/Joe-Root-stay-England-captain-Test-cricket-returns-ECB-agenda.html#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16409443045089&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-10355821/amp/Joe-Root-stay-England-captain-Test-cricket-returns-ECB-agenda.html#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16409443045089&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com)
Daily Mail: just a thought!
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Looks like Hameed has switched to DSC - https://twitter.com/beastieboy07/status/1477850030153240576
As we all know too well, a new bat fixes all technical issues and is the key to scoring runs
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Be nice if some of these pro players showed some loyalty to the brands, I guess we don’t know who terminated the deals thou it could be either way.
Can’t help thinking if both our openers used UK brands or what have been traditionally UK brands their sales would go up
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Crawley will have to open now just so GN have a sponsored player at the top of the England order. Can’t temper the last time at least one of our openers wasn’t using GN.
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Crawley will have to open now just so GN have a sponsored player at the top of the England order. Can’t temper the last time at least one of our openers wasn’t using GN.
This would be a good question in a game of CBF Trivia
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This would be a good question in a game of CBF Trivia
trescothick and vaughan?
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trescothick and vaughan?
It is a good trivia question. In tests I don’t remember Vaughan opening, think he was a 3.
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Vaughan opened the batting more often than batting in any other postion for England. He opened 72 times, batted at 3 38 times and at 4 30 times.
I can't of a GN absence from the opening pairing since Trescothick and Vaughan
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We make 1 change Broad in for Robinson.
Khawaja in for Head the only change for Australia.
It's due to chuck it down so we actually have a chance of a draw.
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Be nice if some of these pro players showed some loyalty to the brands, I guess we don’t know who terminated the deals thou it could be either way.
Can’t help thinking if both our openers used UK brands or what have been traditionally UK brands their sales would go up
GN have let a lot of contracts expire as of Jan 1st.
As for sales, putting Root and Stokes aside, I'm not sure many brands would be foolish enough to invest significant cash to sponsor our top order at the moment...
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GN have let a lot of contracts expire as of Jan 1st.
As for sales, putting Root and Stokes aside, I'm not sure many brands would be foolish enough to invest significant cash to sponsor our top order at the moment...
New sponsor - Imodium. Helped England stop getting the runs!
I will get my coat...
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For all that England have been god awful in this series, an interesting exercise was proposed by a mate last evening - what would England's best uncapped XI be? We spent an hour on the phone thrashing out the following (dry January sucks, right?):
Jake Libby
Rob Yates
Josh Bohannon
Liam Livingstone
Harry Brook/Kiran Carlsson
Sam Billings
Jordan Thompson
Matt Fisher
Liam Norwell
Saqib Mahmood
Amar Virdi/Matt Parkinson
If you widened the selection criteria slightly, James Bracey for Brook/Carlsson would give a more balanced top order.
Thoughts?
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For all that England have been god awful in this series, an interesting exercise was proposed by a mate last evening - what would England's best uncapped XI be? We spent an hour on the phone thrashing out the following (dry January sucks, right?):
Jake Libby
Rob Yates
Josh Bohannon
Liam Livingstone
Harry Brook/Kiran Carlsson
Sam Billings
Jordan Thompson
Matt Fisher
Liam Norwell
Saqib Mahmood
Amar Virdi/Matt Parkinson
If you widened the selection criteria slightly, James Bracey for Brook/Carlsson would give a more balanced top order.
Thoughts?
With absolutely nothing to play for now, I'd bloody love to see this team in the next tests.
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Reckon I'd crowbar Will Rhodes into the allrounder slot, but mainly fair otherwise. Not an awful looking side all things considered...
Joe Clarke if he's considered selectable these days? Jamie Overton or Brydon Carse likely would get a shout ahead of Fisher.
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Not far off what I'd go for, something like:
Jake Libby/Tom Haines
Rob Yates
Josh Bohannon
Harry Brook/Kiran Carlsson Joe Clarke
Liam Livingstone
Sam Billings
Jordan Thompson
Matt Fisher Brydon Carse
Liam Norwell
Saqib Mahmood
Amar Virdi/Matt Parkinson
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Reckon I'd crowbar Will Rhodes into the allrounder slot, but mainly fair otherwise. Not an awful looking side all things considered...
Joe Clarke if he's considered selectable these days? Jamie Overton or Brydon Carse likely would get a shout ahead of Fisher.
Big fan of Will Rhodes (You Bears) would you consider him or someone like him to be a future England Captain, worked wonders with Warwickshire last year in the county game, useful with bat and ball. Could you see someone like him making an impact on the international stage?
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Dont understand why people rate Liam Livingstone being worthy of a spot in Test Cricket. KP also tweeted about seeing him in the XI...he is a wonderful T20 player, but I dont think his skills will suit Test cricket.
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Dont understand why people rate Liam Livingstone being worthy of a spot in Test Cricket. KP also tweeted about seeing him in the XI...he is a wonderful T20 player, but I dont think his skills will suit Test cricket.
Was once the coming man of English first class batting before losing form - no reason he couldn't get back to that, in theory anyway. Certainly doesn't lack the talent. On the other hand, the four day grind pays signifcantly less well than franchise gigs. Averages more in FC than pretty much any other uncapped candidate.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/eng-lions-tour-of-sl-2016-17-1079680/sri-lanka-a-vs-england-lions-2nd-unofficial-test-1080255/full-scorecard (https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/eng-lions-tour-of-sl-2016-17-1079680/sri-lanka-a-vs-england-lions-2nd-unofficial-test-1080255/full-scorecard)
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Dont understand why people rate Liam Livingstone being worthy of a spot in Test Cricket. KP also tweeted about seeing him in the XI...he is a wonderful T20 player, but I dont think his skills will suit Test cricket.
Pretty respectable FC average, handy with the ball, gun fielder. In a solid team he'd be an excellent X-factor player.
In the current England team I'd probably rather see Tom Abell given a crack bearing in mind he bowls useful mediums and they've already got plenty of exciting stroke players available.
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Rhodes is an interesting one - his captaincy is very highly rated, but he made an error by willingly dropping down the order last season. He'd be a name in discussions, certainly. Looking at the other names posited, Haines had a great season last year, but I wonder if his technique is tight enough for the top level just yet. Clarke must still be on the outer given his previous behaviour (and I wouldn't select him in the longer formats personally anyway). Carse and, not mentioned, Simon Cook were other seamers we spoke about - though not to replace Fisher, whose combination of height, pace and bounce look made for the top level if he can stay fit.
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-ashes-stuart-broad-replaces-ollie-robinson-but-england-batting-line-up-remains-same-for-fourth-test-l9kns7vp0 (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-ashes-stuart-broad-replaces-ollie-robinson-but-england-batting-line-up-remains-same-for-fourth-test-l9kns7vp0)
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Was once the coming man of English first class batting before losing form - no reason he couldn't get back to that, in theory anyway. Certainly doesn't lack the talent. On the other hand, the four day grind pays signifcantly less well than franchise gigs. Averages more in FC than pretty much any other uncapped candidate.
I think he is a very similar boat to Malan - he is successful in T20 cricket, so people pigeonhole him as a T20 player. Yes, he would need a run of games in the format but potentially has the game to be very useful indeed.
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Yates and Bohannon are the two uncapped batters that I like the look of. Both seem to have strong uncomplicated techniques.
Livingstone is one who I certainly would have had on this tour. His first class record is better than many who have been given opportunities in Test cricket over the last 5 years. He also seems a comparative character like Ollie Robinson which this squad on a tough tour could have done with
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Giles: Post-Ashes sackings WON'T solve England's problems https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-10367111/Ashes-Ashley-Giles-insists-England-problems-WONT-solved-sackings-Australia-loss.html?ito=native_share_article-masthead (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-10367111/Ashes-Ashley-Giles-insists-England-problems-WONT-solved-sackings-Australia-loss.html?ito=native_share_article-masthead)
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Giles: Post-Ashes sackings WON'T solve England's problems https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-10367111/Ashes-Ashley-Giles-insists-England-problems-WONT-solved-sackings-Australia-loss.html?ito=native_share_article-masthead (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-10367111/Ashes-Ashley-Giles-insists-England-problems-WONT-solved-sackings-Australia-loss.html?ito=native_share_article-masthead)
Turkey: Killing me won't save your Christmas 😂
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What do we think of Giles,really? Some of what he says makes sense. But he does reek of middle management,loves a soundbite.
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He is right in blaming the players won’t work, they are the best we have so there’s not much left other than to work with them.
Root will stay he desperately needs help from an experienced coach to get the best out of what we have.
Giles and Harrison absolutely have to go, Silverwood too from the head coach role.
The one day side are great but the test side needs attention now, and somehow to get playing CC at least some games in summer not as an afterthought
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What do we think of Giles,really? Some of what he says makes sense. But he does reek of middle management,loves a soundbite.
Giles went down in my estimations when Michael Carberry talked about the tour in Australia in 2013-14. He'd done fairly well in the tests against a rampant Mitchell Johnson, yet was left out of all the subsequent ODI's despite being one of the best 50 over batsman in England at the time. He asked the then Head Coach Giles why. he hadn't played, to which Giles said he didn't know. As Carberry said, "If the Head Coach didn't know, then who the bloody hell would?"
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(https://i.ibb.co/mXyLfvz/Screenshot-20220104-221640-kindlephoto-443133045.png)
Looks like it's going to be a game for ducks.
So I've come up with my Wet Weather World XI
Sunil Gavfishskar
Chris Gale
Submarine Chanderpaul
Sourav Gangplankguly
Steve Woar
Mark Woar
Younis Khanoe
Mahendra Singin'intherain Dhoni
Sir Richard Haddocklee
Shane Prawn
Jason Gillsespie
The team needed 2 Woars. Otherwise it would be going round in circles
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:D
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(https://i.ibb.co/mXyLfvz/Screenshot-20220104-221640-kindlephoto-443133045.png)
Looks like it's going to be a game for ducks.
So I've come up with my Wet Weather World XI
Sunil Gavfishskar
Chris Gale
Submarine Chanderpaul
Sourav Gangplankguly
Steve Woar
Mark Woar
Younis Khanoe
Mahendra Singin'intherain Dhoni
Sir Richard Haddocklee
Shane Prawn
Jason Gillsespie
The team needed 2 Woars. Otherwise it would be going round in circles
12th man as he has recent practice preparing drinks: Roary Burns
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As for the rest of the discussion on this thread...
You can't blame the players. I think the best players in the country (bar one or two) are out there. Changing them now will not matter one iota.
To me it's obvious that our cricket "system" is not producing high enough quality batsmen (and bowlers to a lesser extent) to be competitive with the top test teams. So you can't blame the direct management (Managing Director, Performance Director, Coach, Captain - maybe a few others) for this. It's out of their control.
What the direct management can control is preparation for the series and team selection. And that has been sh!t. Giles, Bobat, Silverwood need to go straight after the series. I personally think they've made things worse, when they should be keeping things level as a minimum. I would keep Root (who else is there?) but remind him how sh!t team selection was and how suspect some of the tactics on the pitch were. Listening to Ashley Piles now on TMS, he's talking utter, utter BS. It's worth a listen on replay. Utter, contradictory bobbins. "We are 4 in the world in test cricket and wanted to be better. Have we redressed that balance. Not totally" NOT TOTALLY? NOT AT ALL YOU MORON.
On management, in one of the BT sport innings breaks, they interviewed Jeremy Snape. Self-styled cricket psychologist. WTF! I imagine he is filling players minds with more things to worry about not less. Get rid of immediately. Get a normal sports psychologist as an advisor, and only if a player asks for one.
Fixing the cricket system? Many others have already said.
- Better quality pitches that mean 1) batsmen have a chance to build an innings rather than hit quick runs before they have a ball with their name on 2) Bowlers have to bowl better to take wickets 3) Spinners get a chance to influence games.
- Bring the County Championship into the whole of the Summer. Run it in parallel to some one day competitions. Get rid of either The Hundred or the t20 Blast.
Will the latter happen? Doubtful. Lip service maybe. Unfortunately Harrison and the rest of the inept bunch of muppets that turned up and failed at the DCMS Select committee shared £21m in bonuses for a *successful* 2021 season. For successful read profitable. They don't care about test cricket. They care about money.
What's worse was this was all talked about 4 years ago. Together with the plan to fix it. What has actually happened? Jack Sh!t
Edited to add more sweary words because the same situation arose the last time we were out there.
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- Better quality pitches that mean 1) batsmen have a chance to build an innings rather than hit quick runs before they have a ball with their name on 2) Bowlers have to bowl better to take wickets 3) Spinners get a chance to influence games.
As part of the 2019 ashes preparation, all australian sheffield shield teams used the Dukes ball for half of their games. The seam bowlers all loved it, but it was found to be detrimental to spin bowling, as the spinners hardly got given the ball when the seamers were all bowling hand grenades.
Since the 2019 ashes they have gone back to the Kookaburra ball, for the exact reasons you mentioned above. I'm not saying better pitches won't make better cricket, but combine better pitches with a different ball and the change in the game will be massive.
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Looks to be very back and forth with all the rain around.
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England have bowled pretty well today, they've been a bit unlucky. You have to admire how Harris and Labuschagne have survived though, very good test match batting.
HA! I'M CLAIMING THAT WICKET JIMMY!
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Looks like a solid effort from the bowling unit last night.
I’m not sure whether it would be frustrating to keep coming on and off for rain, or it’s a benefit to get your feet up and watch the effect the rain has on the pitch and outfield.
I’ll enjoy the early start tonight!
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As part of the 2019 ashes preparation, all australian sheffield shield teams used the Dukes ball for half of their games. The seam bowlers all loved it, but it was found to be detrimental to spin bowling, as the spinners hardly got given the ball when the seamers were all bowling hand grenades.
Since the 2019 ashes they have gone back to the Kookaburra ball, for the exact reasons you mentioned above. I'm not saying better pitches won't make better cricket, but combine better pitches with a different ball and the change in the game will be massive.
You're right. If it's a temporary measure for preparation, to swap from Kook to Dukes would be a quicker as an exercise in control, as the ball is doing more work. The other way around will take longer as the bowler's action is going to have to do more of the work.
My question would be how much do we want to change permanently, and how much "identity" are we prepared to lose compared to the benefits gained by bowling with a less helpful Kook ball. Someone on comms today said speak to Dukes and get them to make a less pronounced seam ball.
On another comms note, many of the ex-cricketer Aussie commentators on Fox were very complimentary about the England performance today and seem, in general, desperate for our lot to be better to make game of it.
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Sounds like it’s been a very difficult tour off the field too with Covid affecting us a bit more than them.
No excuses but we did need selection and management right just to compete.
This tour may not be all doom and gloom if some good comes out of it ie some management sackings.
We have got to the point where changing a Bairstow for Pope makes no difference so we just have to work with the younger batsmen and hope they come good. Our bowling seems much healthier with Wood Anderson Woakes Leach Overton Etc
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Sounds like it’s been a very difficult tour off the field too with Covid affecting us a bit more than them.
No excuses but we did need selection and management right just to compete.
This tour may not be all doom and gloom if some good comes out of it ie some management sackings.
We have got to the point where changing a Bairstow for Pope makes no difference so we just have to work with the younger batsmen and hope they come good. Our bowling seems much healthier with Wood Anderson Woakes Leach Overton Etc
Nor sure our bowling looks much healthier, especially in Oz conditions. Woakes has proved ineffective in Oz again, Wood we have to carefully manage, Anderson is class but obviously at the very end of his career and Leach just simply isn't the answer. Robinson is good but would be so much better with more pace and Overton is very similar again.
It would have been great to have had Archer and Stone to call upon for some added pace, which i certainly think along with a world class spinner, is something we always seen to lack.
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Nor sure our bowling looks much healthier, especially in Oz conditions. Woakes has proved ineffective in Oz again, Wood we have to carefully manage, Anderson is class but obviously at the very end of his career and Leach just simply isn't the answer. Robinson is good but would be so much better with more pace and Overton is very similar again.
It would have been great to have had Archer and Stone to call upon for some added pace, which i certainly think along with a world class spinner, is something we always seen to lack.
Yes it would your right but I don’t see Archer or Stone playing any test cricket in the future. On the sidelines is Mahmoud who has looked ok in the one dayers he played. If Robinson stays fit he may well displace Broad in the next year. You could argue Robinson is a better bowler now.
Parkinson is also tipped to break thru, that could be an option for us should Leach not work out.
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Yes it would your right but I don’t see Archer or Stone playing any test cricket in the future. On the sidelines is Mahmoud who has looked ok in the one dayers he played. If Robinson stays fit he may well displace Broad in the next year. You could argue Robinson is a better bowler now.
Parkinson is also tipped to break thru, that could be an option for us should Leach not work out.
I tend to agree with Jonny here. I think our bowling arsenal looks pretty bare too. I have no doubt that we can churn out more bowling suitable to English conditions, of course we can, think Overton etc. The spinner has been a problem for a number of years now and I don't imagine Archer playing much test cricket in general. Im not sure it'll be worth his time and I don't blame him.
Robinson will feature for many years, and he's shown he can offer something overseas too. I'm not sure where the other two genuine quicks and spinner is coming from yet, though. The attack on the next tour could well be worse than what we have currently.
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England have bowled pretty well today, they've been a bit unlucky. You have to admire how Harris and Labuschagne have survived though, very good test match batting.
HA! I'M CLAIMING THAT WICKET JIMMY!
Think Nelson will be claiming that one as their second wicket of the Ashes series :)
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I tend to agree with Jonny here. I think our bowling arsenal looks pretty bare too. I have no doubt that we can churn out more bowling suitable to English conditions, of course we can, think Overton etc. The spinner has been a problem for a number of years now and I don't imagine Archer playing much test cricket in general. Im not sure it'll be worth his time and I don't blame him.
Robinson will feature for many years, and he's shown he can offer something overseas too. I'm not sure where the other two genuine quicks and spinner is coming from yet, though. The attack on the next tour could well be worse than what we have currently.
I don’t disagree on the whole we do tend to turn out medium pacers quite well and the genuine quicks of the last couple of years have mostly not materialised due to injury. The only one we have who has stayed fit is Wood.
The thing I think is worth bearing in mind is with a spinner, our pitches are not helping any development as they are more in favour of seamers early season and late season.
The one thing Ali or leach have not had is runs on the board to bowl at.
Swann was a very good bowler for us but I’d like to see him cleaning up with no attacking fields and 150 on the board most of the time. It just would not happen.
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Get these two in an hour, hey, maybe.
However, still expect the batting to be shown up
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It looks out of reach now. Hoping for a draw!
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It looks out of reach now. Hoping for a draw!
Have to agree with you.
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Talk about a let-off
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A bit of luck we needed if we can just get thru none down :)
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Delighted for Ussie, still can’t fathom why he was overlooked for Harris.
Poms must be at an all time low. Leach is genuinely garbage.
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Delighted for Ussie, still can’t fathom why he was overlooked for Harris.
Poms must be at an all time low. Leach is genuinely garbage.
Maybe 'Ussie' should open? He averages 40 plus and has played a fair few games. Would walk into England's team
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Weren't there whisperings that Khawaja was binned in part because he stood up to Langer more than others did?
Comes across as a genuinely nice bloke so hard not to feel at least a bit happy for him.
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Anyone in Aussie fan/media calling for Cameron Green to be dropped after another low score? Personally, I have not seen too many folks asking for him to be dropped. Australia has put in the effort to support him along with managing workload and not put additional pressure, which I see as the biggest difference between English fan/media towards England player. I wish England fans/media would support the younger players until they have someone better.
Just an observation from a neutral cricket fan.
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That was SO BAD from Hameed. Come on man.
Can we start importing South Africans again? :D
NGL, Crawley looks fantastic today. This might jinx it, but he does.
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It's a bit of this that makes Crawley so frustrating. He's got the talent to be phenomenal.
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This is woeful
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This is a horrible innings for England.
I don't think I will watch the rest of the series. The batting is that bad.
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Last test, I'd bring in Burns for Hameed, and Lawrence for someone else too. Could even give Pope another go.
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Crawley looks fantastic today. This might jinx it, but he does.
Spoke too soon.
Your only chance now is Stokes and Johnny. Or rain, lots of rain.
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11 maidens in a row just shows how much this batting line up can’t relive pressure. Great batting but some ordinary dismissals at the top top level.
Going to need something special in the context of this series just to avoid the follow on
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We don't deserve Stokes, incredible resilience with a fair bit of luck. Not bad from Bairstow either
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Great fight from Stokes. Side strains are no joke
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Hat off to Bairstow too, I know many on here had written him off previously.
Tough character and I'm greatly enjoying him despatching Lyon into the stands.
What was that from Buttler though :(
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Butler has gone it’s time just for one day cricket.
I’m not Bairstows biggest fan but to score when he has hardly played any cricket recently is some going.
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Totally pumped for YJB.
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Brilliant, brilliant knock from Bairstow, moreso after that ball he took on the thumb.
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Top innings and very happy for him. That blow to the thumb was nasty.
I thought this team would fold after the Root and Malan wickets
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Well batted Jonny B great to see us bat out a day and was good to watch a bit of the stokes & Bairstow partnership. Not been his biggest critic in the past but either his biggest fan but he does does seem to one of of those with a bit of heart and fight about him which has ruffled some media feathers before.
Butlers was an awfully tame way to get out for someone that can be as dynamic as he can be so think he is done but not for JYB to take the gloves, can he just focus on batting for a while please.
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That Hameed dismissal was really poor...Crawley pretty loose too. Great stuff from YJB
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Terrific fight back from Stokes and Bairstow! Hats off to them! Real fighters.
Just when I was thinking that Stokes bowled to many overs, he proves he's an iron man!
Bairstow, I knew he's going to preform, well done!
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Hope this innings silences all the Bairstow haters! Well played!
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Have criticised Bairstow plenty, and I still don't think he's the solution for England, but you cannot fault the grit, determination and sheer balls he's shown there.
Buttler is done, think Hameed needs to be sent back to county cricket to continue his rehabilitation as a batsman, Crawley likewise should be sent for some serious coaching work.
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Hope this innings silences all the Bairstow haters! Well played!
It's a great knock (and absolutely respect it) but also his first century in 3 and a bit years (20 tests) during which time he averaged 21.3 despite being a player of many years and many games experience at test level.
Would much rather see him continue to be an all time white ball great for England than have the occasional great knock for the test side.
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Have criticised Bairstow plenty, and I still don't think he's the solution for England, but you cannot fault the grit, determination and sheer balls he's shown there.
Buttler is done, think Hameed needs to be sent back to county cricket to continue his rehabilitation as a batsman, Crawley likewise should be sent for some serious coaching work.
It’s a bit of a merry go round but England could well give the gloves back to Bairstow after this tour and that would leave a batting spot. Pope or Burns to return maybe.
I actually think Foakes should keep and then pick the best 6 batsmen ahead of him.
Which would not be an easy task :)
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It’s a bit of a merry go round but England could well give the gloves back to Bairstow after this tour and that would leave a batting spot. Pope or Burns to return maybe.
I actually think Foakes should keep and then pick the best 6 batsmen ahead of him.
Which would not be an easy task :)
Really hope they don't go down the route of giving Bairstow the gloves back. A competent keeper for sure but I don't believe he can be the batsman they want and their keeper.
As you say, Foakes at 7 with the gloves. If they're going to pick Bairstow then pick him as a counter-punching 6 with a great deal of experience.
Personally I'd rather see Lawrence given a run at 5 and Stokes batting at 6 but it looks like he may be out with injury for a while again.
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Well batted Jonny! Finally a big score from an England batsman. Unfortunately with the amount of ducks and low scores we cannot compete with their total (shock.)
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The second innings of this test could be interesting if, as suggested, Butler and Bairstow aren't fit to keep and Stokes isn't fit to bowl.
Of all the selection calls, Sam Billings keeping wicket in the final test seemed pretty remote at the start of the tour
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Really hope they don't go down the route of giving Bairstow the gloves back. A competent keeper for sure but I don't believe he can be the batsman they want and their keeper.
As you say, Foakes at 7 with the gloves. If they're going to pick Bairstow then pick him as a counter-punching 6 with a great deal of experience.
Personally I'd rather see Lawrence given a run at 5 and Stokes batting at 6 but it looks like he may be out with injury for a while again.
Bairstow comes back with a ton and you'd pick Lawrence?! Bit harsh that mate 😆
They've got to pick Bairstow as 6 or give him the gloves, but just do one or the other for a while instead of messing everyone about. Butler was always a suspect selection for me and they tried to shoe horn him in when it wasn't needed. Personally I'd go with Bairstow as keeper at 7, as it allows an extra batter and his keeping is good enough. His record there is good too and it allows us to blood a decent long term 5, with Stokes for me in a more natural position at 6.
That said, I'm not opposed to them picking Foakes but just don't see them doing it. Either way i think Bairstow is in our top 7 batsmen, but then i thought that last year as well.
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Don't hate your solution @jonny77 but I think Foakes would be a bit more nuggety at 7 than Bairstow who, for all his qualities, likes to get after the bowlers.
For me that's what the lower middle order is missing given that Root, Stokes and Bairstow all like to play their shots.
While I could see the value of a middle order of Root, Lawrence/Clarke, Stokes, Bairstow, it just feels like a bit more of a shake up is needed. Obviously they need some experience around the side but I do wonder how much the setup can change with the same faces in the team.
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The second innings of this test could be interesting if, as suggested, Butler and Bairstow aren't fit to keep and Stokes isn't fit to bowl.
Of all the selection calls, Sam Billings keeping wicket in the final test seemed pretty remote at the start of the tour
Pope was keeping in the nets earlier on.
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Don't hate your solution @jonny77 but I think Foakes would be a bit more nuggety at 7 than Bairstow who, for all his qualities, likes to get after the bowlers.
For me that's what the lower middle order is missing given that Root, Stokes and Bairstow all like to play their shots.
While I could see the value of a middle order of Root, Lawrence/Clarke, Stokes, Bairstow, it just feels like a bit more of a shake up is needed. Obviously they need some experience around the side but I do wonder how much the setup can change with the same faces in the team.
I get you mate and I like Foakes, just think Bairstow can and has done a good job there. His average at 7 with the gloves is good and think he can grit it out too.
Let's be honest, we have bigger issues than this though! 😂
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Pope was keeping in the nets earlier on.
Yes, it seems possible that he may have to do it as a sub in in second innings here
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Hope this innings silences all the Bairstow haters! Well played!
Absolutely no chance of that!
He is still one of our best Test batsmen but just as important he also has the fight for it which many of the new crop seem to lack.
Is he a long term solution.... clearly, no. Is he one of our best available Test batsmen.... with the highest series average and one of a handful that have scored over 100 runs in the series (and his 143 coming from just 3 innings, compared with 7 for Root, Malan, Stokes).... clearly, yes!
Not a popular opinion but it is the truth.
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Foakes can't play can be due to the quarantine stuff? He isn't even in Australia I think.
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Foakes can't play can be due to the quarantine stuff? He isn't even in Australia I think.
Not suggesting him for this series, talking about down the line.
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No way in hell should Pope keep again. That would be crazy
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No way in hell should Pope keep again. That would be crazy
If Bairstow and Buttler are both goosed then do they have another option in this test?
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Well as mentioned Billings has joined the squad so he could play the fifth, not sure of the rules on sub keepers for the current match
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If Bairstow and Buttler are both goosed then do they have another option in this test?
Oh,I see,you're talking about Pope this test as a sub.
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Well as mentioned Billings has joined the squad so he could play the fifth, not sure of the rules on sub keepers for the current match
He’ll have to quarentine before joining the bubble. If YJB and Buttler are too injured to keep it probably has to be Pope.
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Confirmed Pope will keep in the second innings.
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Yes just seen that, we presume Butler is now out of the match and Pope bats in the second innings.
He’s had lots of chances before but if that’s right another chance to get a few runs.
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Pope won't he able to bat as well as keep will he?
That could be it for Butler in test cricket.
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Pope apparently giving a pretty decent account of himself with the gloves too. At this point you just have to accept this is a premium banter series and roll with it.
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Pope apparently giving a pretty decent account of himself with the gloves too. At this point you just have to accept this is a premium banter series and roll with it.
I believe he was a keeper batter at county age cricket (don’t quote me ok that) but he was picked as a keeper/batsmen for a test in SA I believe a couple of years ago so he is a fairly decent sub to have. Certainly done well today, take from leech was decent as was the ML dismissal
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Declaring with Leach on a hattrick, the absolute shithousery of it. Outstanding.
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Can't believe our openers have seen a day off unscathed
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Declaring with Leach on a hattrick, the absolute shithousery of it. Outstanding.
Maybe he should have sent Boland out next, with a training bat, to maximize Leach’s chances of getting a hatrick?
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I dont think we need another keeper :) but BBC saying Pope kept well today!
We got thru the last hour but we can just hope we can bat a day tommorow
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Maybe he should have sent Boland out next, with a training bat, to maximize Leach’s chances of getting a hatrick?
Walked out with no pads, gloves or bat and just stepped out the way if he had any decency 😂
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Can't believe our openers have seen a day off unscathed
Boris should announce an additional bank holiday to celebrate the fact!
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Yes just seen that, we presume Butler is now out of the match and Pope bats in the second innings.
He’s had lots of chances before but if that’s right another chance to get a few runs.
Pope will only be able to keep in the second innings, if butler can’t bat then Aus will need one less wicket
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Really pleased and prove of Uzzie. Never understood why he’s always been the odd man out. Class innings and he speaks with class as well. If they still drop him for Hobart I’ll be gutted. Nothing against Harris but he’s barely capable of scoring half centuries yet he’s getting so many opportunities. Uzzie now has TEN centuries, Harris can only dream of such amount.
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Declaring with Leach on a hattrick, the absolute shithousery of it. Outstanding.
It'll still be a hattrick ball, the next time he comes onto bowl.
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It'll still be a hattrick ball, the next time he comes onto bowl.
Well aye, but it's not quite as dramatic is it 😅
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True :D
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I only saw highlights. Did Crawley and Hameed look comfortable until the close?
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Anyone in Sydney who can do a rain dance please?
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I only saw highlights. Did Crawley and Hameed look comfortable until the close?
Are we really in a position to be cosy on that point?
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Problem is, there’s little to zero chance of winning the game.
How are the batters going to approach their innings with a full day left? I don’t know if the XI has got the discipline to play a defensive game for a full day, but their natural game has been found wanting too.
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It'll still be a hattrick ball, the next time he comes onto bowl.
It won't. A hattrick can span two different innings but must take place in the same match.
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Only option is defence, defence and defence!
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If some of these batters had any backbone, they would go out of their way to deny the Aussies tomorrow.
Show some defiance, and set down a marker for the future, when we might actually be able to compete.
Hameed, Crawley, Malan and Root could all do with leaving a mark - the first 3 before they are eclipsed for ever.
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No rain right now. If these two can bat for an hour I might have a slight glimmer of hope
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Well, Crawley's looked on the money
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It won't. A hattrick can span two different innings but must take place in the same match.
To quote Steve Harmison who was on commentary at the time:
"He'll be on a hattrick ball, next time he goes out to play for England...be it in Hobart or the West Indies."
Statisticians might have their criteria, but quite simply 3 wickets in 3 balls is good enough for me.
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Such a shame for Crawley. He looked great.
I imagine it will be an issue,, but I hope that silly review doesn’t bite us in the bum later.
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How good was Crawley? Like a prime Michael Vaughan. He's in my team for the next two years.
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Steve Harmison was on commentary at the time:
Say no more.
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Is it just me or has Gower upped his game on comms of late? Think he was dialing it in for his last few years at sky, the change seems to have done him some good.
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How good was Crawley? Like a prime Michael Vaughan. He's in my team for the next two years.
I'd love to see him regularly batting like this but I hope they sort out this issue he has with bringing the bat down at an angle.
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Crawley looked excellent. Only Root has looked better than that on this tour. His form has been wretches but I think he is worth giving a run.
There will be big decisions with the group of over 30s who are not performing. Of the Burns, Malan, Butler, Bairstow and Leach group, Baristow is the only one I would look at taking into the summer to rebuild the red ball side
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Think I'd probably agree, they need some experience around the side but after this tour I think it's time to start trying to bring new faces into the red ball side.
Like the look of Yates, Bohannon, Clarke plus guys around the squad like Lawrence. Sibley may also come again if his time taken off to work on his game pays off.
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I wouldn't throw Malan away just yet, he just looks exhausted. He's earned a little longer.
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I wouldn't throw Malan away just yet, he just looks exhausted. He's earned a little longer.
Averages 23 in tests in England though.
He's done a decent job this series, especially in comparison to most of his teammates, but at 34 is he going to crack test cricket in England any time soon?
Imagine he'll get the Windies tests at least to stake a longer term claim but part of me does hope they're a bit more adventurous.
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Same old (No Swearing Please) then
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Same old (No Swearing Please) then
Are we satisfied that Buttler should stick to white ball cricket yet?
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That was some reminder of why we love test cricket. Finally showing a bit of pride, grit and ability.
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My heart is all over the shop
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Not lost an Ashes Test in 2022... Things are looking up!
After three warm up matches, Eng is finally ready to play...
Also Buttler is flying home with a broken finger. Stokes and Bairstow are staying around. Billings likely to keep in hobart.
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Excellent display of defence!
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Solid fight shown by the Poms…if they’d tried more earlier in the series it could’ve been a good contest. Bairstow, often much maligned, outstanding. Stokes, with an injury, outstanding as well.
We really need to try another spinner second consecutive match at the SCG where Lyon can’t deliver on day 5, two injured Indians sorted him out last year.
Scotty Boland might not get many more Tests, but he’s showing he merited selection earlier in his career.
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Would Boland have performed this well earlier in his career though? Not crazy to think it's his experience and confidence in executing his skills that's allowed him to do so well.
England once again showing they need to stop going into series so wildly undercooked. Time and again, they go abroad and don't compete until games have been lost.
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With regards to Scotty Boland, he’s generally been successful on flat pitches. His red ball record at both MCG and SCG is brilliant. At those venues he could easily have earned a cap a few years ago.
There’s could be a strong argument that Scotty could’ve played the MCG test the last 4 years…
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Such a stressful ending, would love to know Jimmy's heartrate!!!
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With regards to Scotty Boland, he’s generally been successful on flat pitches. His red ball record at both MCG and SCG is brilliant. At those venues he could easily have earned a cap a few years ago.
There’s could be a strong argument that Scotty could’ve played the MCG test the last 4 years…
How could he be dropped from the team when he is sooo good on flat pitches? He must be unplayable on good pitched!
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How could he be dropped from the team when he is sooo good on flat pitches? He must be unplayable on good pitched!
I mean, Hazelwood is a pretty useful bowler too...
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Great ending. Finally a bit of competition.
It’s such a shame this and the next test are dead rubbers. Especially now Bairstow, Stokes, Crawley, Wood and Leach have a bit of form and confidence. I suppose that’s why we have warm up games.
I thought Australia had enough at 350 yesterday, they could’ve used that extra time with rain always on the forecast for today.
Very excited for the Hobart day/nighter
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I mean, Hazelwood is a pretty useful bowler too...
Starc is probably due a rest now isn’t he? Boland might get the last spot in place of him and Hazlewood comes back in.
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How could he be dropped from the team when he is sooo good on flat pitches? He must be unplayable on good pitched!
Still some hours to put in, I feel.
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Are we satisfied that Buttler should stick to white ball cricket yet?
Couldn't we just drop this silly name and call it rounders?
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Starc is probably due a rest now isn’t he? Boland might get the last spot in place of him and Hazlewood comes back in.
Think Hazlewood is still out injured for the fifth test.
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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/29/english-cricket-disarray-ashes-shambles-brexit (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/29/english-cricket-disarray-ashes-shambles-brexit)
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Great ending. Finally a bit of competition.
It’s such a shame this and the next test are dead rubbers. Especially now Bairstow, Stokes, Crawley, Wood and Leach have a bit of form and confidence. I suppose that’s why we have warm up games.
I thought Australia had enough at 350 yesterday, they could’ve used that extra time with rain always on the forecast for today.
Very excited for the Hobart day/nighter
Expectations are pretty low from most of us but at last there is something we can get out of the tour.
Crawley a few of us said appears to have the game and now we know he does-not seeing it enough but at least he has the talent.
I think Burns may have a chance of a return. He’s been working on his technique to have less movement.Bairstow has been very good and England could maybe have Pope in next game as a keeper bat….possibly an option for the future.
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Hope they don't take this as a sign that Pope can be developed into a keeper-bat, get someone in who keeps every week for their county side. Pope needs to go away with the coaches and get back to the fundamentals of batting long.
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Hazelwood won't play in Hobart, and I don't think Starc will either. Richardson in for Starc.
Stokes and Bairstow showed some real grit and commitment in both innings which has been lacking from most English bats all series.
Hameed has to go, he doesn't look to score and puts no pressure on the bowlers so it's just survival. When you are in that mindset against a reasonable attack it's just a matter of time.
I understand that Billings has joined the squad, he'd be my pick for keeping as he's been playing BBL for a while and is used to the Australian conditions and is making runs.
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I'd like to see Lawrence given a go so he gets something out of the tour, but I agree that Burns for Hameed is logical. Pope v Billings is certainly an interesting one. It would be SO England to turn Pope into a keeper batsman and for him to keep Foakes out of the side...
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It makes me wonder the way Hameed has done this series, being so negative, not looking to score, only to survive and eventually nicking off due to his low hands and not leaving the right deliveries.....
Would Sibley have done better?? Everyone said he needed to expand his game on the off side but he probably would have left the ball alot better than Hameed has outside off??
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Sibley scored boatloads on the last Lions tour to Aus. Suspect he's done very well to miss this tour, clearly has the talent and temperament so if he can back up a winter of technical work with some early season runs he'll be back in the side by May.
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I don’t see how you lot can bring back any of the lads that got dropped earlier in the series.
Push Malan up to open with Crawley. Root up to 3. Stokes/Bairstow at 4, if either is fit. Lawrence at 5. Billings at 6.
Probably no need for a spinner in Hobart so 5 quicks - Woakes and Overton as the ‘all rounders’
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Sibley scored boatloads on the last Lions tour to Aus. Suspect he's done very well to miss this tour, clearly has the talent and temperament so if he can back up a winter of technical work with some early season runs he'll be back in the side by May.
I think this extended break for Sibley could do him wonders. In the summer he got bogged down and you could see there was a monkey on his back. The guy is built for test cricket and with some technique changes, has a game to suit all over the world.
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I think this extended break for Sibley could do him wonders. In the summer he got bogged down and you could see there was a monkey on his back. The guy is built for test cricket and with some technique changes, has a game to suit all over the world.
Not sure he'll ever be great against spin but luckily Hameed's game is built for spinning tracks.
Interesting to see if Sibley has been working with Gary Palmer and what changes he might have made.
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Anyone else noticing Joe Clarke's run of form in BBL....?
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Anyone else noticing Joe Clarke's run of form in BBL....?
His white ball form has been quality for quite a while now. Would love to see him get a go for England as I think he's such a stylish player but seems like the various issues he's been involved in are held against him by England management (not necessarily unfairly).
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His white ball form has been quality for quite a while now. Would love to see him get a go for England as I think he's such a stylish player but seems like the various issues he's been involved in are held against him by England management (not necessarily unfairly).
Yeah this wouldn't surprise me. As a Worcestershire lad myself having seen him since he started out he's clearly got bags of ability, but past events are no doubt taken into significant account once you hit the international level and rightly so (look at Hales)
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Yeah this wouldn't surprise me. As a Worcestershire lad myself having seen him since he started out he's clearly got bags of ability, but past events are no doubt taken into significant account once you hit the international level and rightly so (look at Hales)
Think he has suffered from the association with the Hepburn case. What Clarke did was distasteful but it looks a hell of a lot worse when one of the others involved is now a convicted rapist.
You'd hope he's learned by now what an idiot he was for getting involved in the first place but then he's got caught up in other nonsense since.
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Looks like Ben stokes is flying home as the rest of his family are landing in England tomorrow
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Think he has suffered from the association with the Hepburn case. What Clarke did was distasteful but it looks a hell of a lot worse when one of the others involved is now a convicted rapist.
You'd hope he's learned by now what an idiot he was for getting involved in the first place but then he's got caught up in other nonsense since.
What other stuff has he got caught up in?
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What other stuff has he got caught up in?
https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/19452837.affray-charges-cricketer-joe-clarke-dropped/ (https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/19452837.affray-charges-cricketer-joe-clarke-dropped/)
Case was dropped but you can see why England management wouldn't be impressed that he put himself in that situation after already having been involved in the Hepburn case.
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Clarke is a stylish player who appears to have potential to play tests, I don’t think he has ruled himself out of selection although some of the issues he has has are close to the mark.
Think he bats 4 for Notts so may have to at least go to 3 for them this season to get a slot.
I actually think Burns is putting in the effort technique wise and England still think he could do a job.
The yearly runs stat had Root miles ahead but next best was Burns.
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Burns tipped for a recall after working on his technique in the nets. Hameed I think some of us said needed a good year behind him in County cricket, tough call now to keep him in or drop him.
He doesn’t look like he has the back foot game on bouncy pitches and still has low hands.
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Burns tipped for a recall after working on his technique in the nets. Hameed I think some of us said needed a good year behind him in County cricket, tough call now to keep him in or drop him.
He doesn’t look like he has the back foot game on bouncy pitches and still has low hands.
I'd be bringing in Burns for this one. Hameed isn't going to benefit from another game. Get him out of the firing line and let him go back to county with some shred of self confidence intact.
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Anyone care to guess on a starting XI for this one - what's the pitch like - do we need Wood's raw pace or a spinner?
Here's my crazy-(No Swearing Please) suggestion:
Burns
Malan
Crawley
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Billings+
Robinson
Wood
Broad
Anderson
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Anyone care to guess on a starting XI for this one - what's the pitch like - do we need Wood's raw pace or a spinner?
Here's my crazy-(No Swearing Please) suggestion:
Burns
Malan
Crawley
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Billings+
Robinson
Wood
Broad
Anderson
Swap Malan and Burns and that's one hell of a side
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would be extremely harsh on billings if he didnt play, so assuming he is.
heard that anderson is 50/50 as well so gives us a big problem in the bowling, wouldnt trust woakes as hes looked like cannon fodder
Burns
Crawley
Malan
Root
Stokes or lawrence if not fit
Bairstow
Billings+
Robinson
Wood
Broad
Anderson
Root will have to bowl a few as cant see stokes bowling and not worth risking it in a lost series
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Anyone care to guess on a starting XI for this one - what's the pitch like - do we need Wood's raw pace or a spinner?
Here's my crazy-(No Swearing Please) suggestion:
Burns
Malan
Crawley
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Billings+
Robinson
Wood
Broad
Anderson
Think I'd probably leave Crawley and Malan at 2/3 respectively, given Crawley's knock up top last innings.
Take it you'd have Root down to bowl any overs of spin needed which is fair enough.
I would maybe be tempted to give Lawrence a game at 5 if Stokes is still struggling with his side injury, especially given how close the Windies series is and the risk of aggravating it.
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If the pitch is as green as it looked a day or so ago that could well be the team. Stokes as a batsman only I think we will go with.
There still remains problems with our batting so should they not risk Stokes it would not hurt to give Lawrence a game.
With these reserve players it’s might tough to come in with no games behind them thou.
At least with Lawrence once he is in he looks to play some shots, similar to Crawley.
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https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jan/12/100-innings-facts-jos-buttler-not-test-batsman-england-ashes?fbclid=IwAR33o6SJC3XKEDGoEW67SBYt_DB1FKsDaSc6tje2J4qw5UHdVNamZAV5Qqo (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jan/12/100-innings-facts-jos-buttler-not-test-batsman-england-ashes?fbclid=IwAR33o6SJC3XKEDGoEW67SBYt_DB1FKsDaSc6tje2J4qw5UHdVNamZAV5Qqo)
Column from Ramprakash on Jos Buttler.
Not sure I agree with the damming disclosure of what went on in their private coaching sessions.
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Not sure I agree with the damming disclosure of what went on in their private coaching sessions.
Don't disagree with the article but can't say it's a great look to be publicising players' personal worries when we've spent so much of the last two years talking about the importance of mental health and wellbeing.
If players can't trust their coaches to have some level of discretion about these things I can't see that it does anybody any good.
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https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jan/12/100-innings-facts-jos-buttler-not-test-batsman-england-ashes?fbclid=IwAR33o6SJC3XKEDGoEW67SBYt_DB1FKsDaSc6tje2J4qw5UHdVNamZAV5Qqo (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jan/12/100-innings-facts-jos-buttler-not-test-batsman-england-ashes?fbclid=IwAR33o6SJC3XKEDGoEW67SBYt_DB1FKsDaSc6tje2J4qw5UHdVNamZAV5Qqo)
Column from Ramprakash on Jos Buttler.
Not sure I agree with the damming disclosure of what went on in their private coaching sessions.
It seems to be that the issue with Butler reflects the lack of direction from the team management. Watching Pant play for India, he clearly had the license to play recklessly from the off irrespective of the game situation on the basis that he will have a lot of failures but will also change games. I just don't see this England test side has that clarity which is in such sharp contrast to the white ball side under Morgan.
I also agree that it is very poor form from Ramprakash to disclose a private conversation with a player.
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I read the article, nothing surprising in there regarding a limited overs player struggling to adapt to test cricket. I actually thought myself about 18 months ago Buttler had found a way to bat solid for us and played pretty well.
I don’t think Ramprakash would be around the coaching set up any longer and is probably not wanted.
These pundits sail a bit close to the wind sometimes and Ramps has done that in the article.
Vaughan is also trying to keep himself in the headlines with remarks about Anderson.
I just wish he would shut the F up. 2005 is remembered fondly for him but he had the team to do it.
He is not the messiah.
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Not playing Anderson on a green seamer is utter madness
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Burns
Crawley
Malan
Root
Stokes
Pope
Billings (WK)
Woakes
Robinson
Wood
Broad
No Leach, Hameed, Bairstow, Anderson, or Buttler.
I feel very sorry for Lawrence.
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Making a meal of it then
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Love to see that from Marnus 😂 Decent knock tho tbf
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This is what should of happened if we had bowled 1st at the Gabba
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I feel very sorry for Lawrence.
How is he possibly behind Burns and Pope, who've both batted their way out of the team earlier in the series? Bizarre.
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Robinson is so unfit it's ridiculous
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How is he possibly behind Burns and Pope, who've both batted their way out of the team earlier in the series? Bizarre.
Burns I understand because Lawrence isn't an opener and someone had to replace Hameed but Pope ahead of Lawrence is bizarre.
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Really struggling to see how you Poms go about team selection. This pitch might be the greenest you’ll ever see in a Test match.
Anderson being ‘rested’ is a joke.
Wood has shown time and again he’ll never be Test class.
Woakes truly pathetic away from home.
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Unless Anderson is injured I don’t understand on a greentop why he would not be first on the list
I hope England are not letting Micheal Vaughan influence the team
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We had them 12-3........ :(
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They already have too many runs as well
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Got to feel for Root here, been left with one bowler at the moment, unless Woakes or Wood can get it together.
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Great knock from Head but that is a hilarious way to get out.
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I’d be happy with 250-275. Probably be enough to win judging by England’s recent batting issues.
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I’d be happy with 250-275. Probably be enough to win judging by England’s recent batting issues.
Aussie attack on this pitch, I don't doubt it.
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Woakes' struggle overseas is a real mystery to me.
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This team is so abject
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Woakes' struggle overseas is a real mystery to me.
Maybe he gets homesick
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Woakes' struggle overseas is a real mystery to me.
Does absolutely fine in the white ball overseas as well. Very strange.
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Aus have struck gold with Green...I can seeing him becoming the next Flintoff/Stokes over the next 5 years in international cricket. An all rounder brings so much balance to a Test side.
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Aus have struck gold with Green...I can seeing him becoming the next Flintoff/Stokes over the next 5 years in international cricket. An all rounder brings so much balance to a Test side.
Looks a much better player now he's got a bit of confidence in his batting at test level. Hope he stays injury free, think that's always a worry with someone that big who bowls as quick as he does, because he's going to be so good to watch.
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I’d be happy with 250-275. Probably be enough to win judging by England’s recent batting issues.
I have a feeling Aus will add more than 9-34 runs. Starc averaging 58 or something like that this series ;)
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Long term Cam Green will probably end up batting at 4 after Smith retires. Green could end up, hopefully, as the next Jacques Kallis.
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Long term Cam Green will probably end up batting at 4 after Smith retires. Green could end up, hopefully, as the next Jacques Kallis.
Seems like a natural six with how he likes to play his shots. Think he'd be wasted as a Kallis style strike bowler, definitely has the skillset to be the Aussie Flintoff your selectors have been looking for since 2005.
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Long term Cam Green will probably end up batting at 4 after Smith retires. Green could end up, hopefully, as the next Jacques Kallis.
Big shout that at this stage in his career. He's got bags of promise, but it will take some doing to be as good as Kallis. He adds so much balance to the side though andc should be a key player for years to come.
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Big call to pick Robinson if his fitness was in doubt with Stokes not able to bowl and Woakes looking entirely innocuous with the Kookaburra in Australian conditions.
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Big shout that at this stage in his career. He's got bags of promise, but it will take some doing to be as good as Kallis. He adds so much balance to the side though andc should be a key player for years to come.
Whether he can emulate Kallis won’t be known for a few years, but I meant Green is like Kallis as in batting all rounder. Like 65% batting and 35% bowling.
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Seems like a natural six with how he likes to play his shots. Think he'd be wasted as a Kallis style strike bowler, definitely has the skillset to be the Aussie Flintoff your selectors have been looking for since 2005.
Tbh I disagree that we need a Flintoff type all rounder. We need a solid fourth seamer to backup whichever 3 fast bowlers we pick.
We need Green’s Sheffield Shield form to translate to test cricket. As has been evident for a while we are pretty flimsy in the batting department.
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Tbh I disagree that we need a Flintoff type all rounder. We need a solid fourth seamer to backup whichever 3 fast bowlers we pick.
We need Green’s Sheffield Shield form to translate to test cricket. As has been evident for a while we are pretty flimsy in the batting department.
I mean, Flintoff was essentially a top class fourth seamer (Freddie, Harmison, Hoggard and Simon Jones - all too short lived as a bowling group) but also a quality middle order bat. I don't see how Green doing that doesn't balance the Aussie side nicely?
You need to find another two decent openers as Warner is on the way out and Harris isn't it. Pucovski looks a good option if he could stop getting hit in the head. Don't know who else is coming through who looks promising.
Middle order - Labuschagne will be quality for years, Head looks like he's establishing himself, Khawaja is very experienced backup. Smith a bit of a worry, not looking himself but everyone knows how good he is. Green at 6 and bring in a better keeper than Carey, Inglis seems to be popular with more avid watchers of Shield cricket?
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Crawley selling Burns down the river there, that's awful
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Ugh
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Crawley selling Burns down the river there, that's awful
There's a run there, just bad calling. But Burns has to dive there!
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Malan getting out to an awful ball.
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ARGH
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A depleted bowling attack still did ok again to restrict their score
But again we are just not up to it with the bat. Only one left to try is Lawrence but he’s a middle order player.
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Don't think I've ever seen such a (No Swearing Please) England team in all my life
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Pope gone now
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Our bowlers have not had rest between innings it’s no wonder they are all not injured.
Our coach criticising Robinsons fitness was way off the mark. He’s bowled well all summer and out there this time.
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Our bowlers have not had rest between innings it’s no wonder they are all not injured.
Our coach criticising Robinsons fitness was way off the mark. He’s bowled well all summer and out there this time.
Man we are so abject
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Pfffft - I can't summon much enthusiasm for this.
I'd quite like them to throw at least 5 newbies into the tests in the Windies to see who swims.
You could justafiably change at least 4 batters, the keeper, the spinner and rotate a couple of seamers.
I know people will argue against wholesale changes but the next lot need a change to shine and can;t be any worse!
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I mean, Flintoff was essentially a top class fourth seamer (Freddie, Harmison, Hoggard and Simon Jones - all too short lived as a bowling group) but also a quality middle order bat. I don't see how Green doing that doesn't balance the Aussie side nicely?
You need to find another two decent openers as Warner is on the way out and Harris isn't it. Pucovski looks a good option if he could stop getting hit in the head. Don't know who else is coming through who looks promising.
Middle order - Labuschagne will be quality for years, Head looks like he's establishing himself, Khawaja is very experienced backup. Smith a bit of a worry, not looking himself but everyone knows how good he is. Green at 6 and bring in a better keeper than Carey, Inglis seems to be popular with more avid watchers of Shield cricket?
I don’t want to disrespect Flintoff but as time evolved he was a bowling all rounder.
Green’s red ball record for WA is exceptional averages close to 60. That proves he’s too good to stay in the lower middle order long term.
Don’t see us changing the keeper prior to touring Pakistan. But Carey’s glove work isn’t very good. I would’ve preferred Inglis but he’ll have to wait until at least the tour of India.
Pucovski hopefully will comeback strong. But there are a few others in the mix. Still think Renshaw could be back one day.
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What did Lawrence do wrong not to even get a game? Pope has been terrible
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What did Lawrence do wrong not to even get a game? Pope has been terrible
Yeah, absolute joke Lawrence didn't get a game here ahead of Pope.
Pfffft - I can't summon much enthusiasm for this.
I'd quite like them to throw at least 5 newbies into the tests in the Windies to see who swims.
You could justafiably change at least 4 batters, the keeper, the spinner and rotate a couple of seamers.
I know people will argue against wholesale changes but the next lot need a change to shine and can;t be any worse!
Would love to see this - Yates in for Malan and Crawley to 3, Lawrence given a proper go, Foakes in to keep. Possibly another more leftfield batting change as well, someone like Joe Clarke.
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Abject, feeble, white-ball tosh!
Sling half of 'em out! De-bag the coach and change the captain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I’ve been a big fan of Pope but his shot today was abysmal. The absolute best result was a run down to third man the way he played it with a slip cordon.
It makes no sense at all. It may be rearranging the deckchairs but Lawrence deserves a chance in the Windies at 5 or 6.
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Aussies doing a good job of making England's batting today look less abject.
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Pfffft - I can't summon much enthusiasm for this.
I'd quite like them to throw at least 5 newbies into the tests in the Windies to see who swims.
You could justafiably change at least 4 batters, the keeper, the spinner and rotate a couple of seamers.
I know people will argue against wholesale changes but the next lot need a change to shine and can;t be any worse!
Wholesale changes are definitely what’s needed. They cannot perform worse than the squad has during this ashes. We’ve bowled Australia out three times in nine innings, and they’ve gone past 400 four times. We can’t even scrape 300 together once.
Let the blokes go home and try and forget about this series and bring the twos (the lads who are on the verge and that management wants to see eg Lawrence, Bohannon, etc) to the West Indies.
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That's an absolute ripper from Wood
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Pretty sad that the only one young batsman has improved their reputation on this tour: Zak Crawley. A great shame that nobody else has emerged.
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Pretty sad that the only one young batsman has improved their reputation on this tour: Zak Crawley. A great shame that nobody else has emerged.
Real shame that Dan Lawrence hasn't been given a chance to improve his reputation.
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Real shame that Dan Lawrence hasn't been given a chance to improve his reputation.
I think they have handled Lawrence poorly. They mess around certain players,like him, Folkestone and Leach, and then treat the likes of Pope differently.
I know I'm being negative but I just don't like the way our team is set up in any shape or form!
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Pretty sad that the only one young batsman has improved their reputation on this tour: Zak Crawley. A great shame that nobody else has emerged.
I’m not excusing the coaching but it’s tough to come in and play with literally zero games between tests.
England have backed Crawley and Pope with contracts but maybe only one of those comes thru. I’m of the opinion Pope has had quite a few chances. Hameed has struggled with the extra pace and bounce.
I don’t believe myself Sibley should be totally binned but with the West Indies tour next up Lawrence deserves the same amount of chances Pope has had. At least Lawrence plays some shots when he is in.
Don’t know whether Hameed should make that tour or go back to county cricket.
We have not really made much progress totally agree. Once again our bowlers keep us in matches.
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Pfffft - I can't summon much enthusiasm for this.
I'd quite like them to throw at least 5 newbies into the tests in the Windies to see who swims.
You could justafiably change at least 4 batters, the keeper, the spinner and rotate a couple of seamers.
I know people will argue against wholesale changes but the next lot need a change to shine and can;t be any worse!
Now is the time at the beginning of an Ashes cycle when wholesale changes have to be made. This group as a collective has failed. I would retain Root, Stokes and Bairstow in the top 7 but the game should now be up for Burns, Malan and Butler.
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After the tour, I wouldn't bring back Hameed until he has had a big county season, and Sibley until he has expanded his skillset a little. Yet I would still consider them for the future if they come good. Buttler goes.
I'm torn by Pope. He is clearly an exceptionally talented cricketer, but I'm not sure he is mentally quite there yet at the international level. I'd take him to the West Indies, but he wouldn't be in my starting 11 for the first game. He needs to show resilience in the middle, and I want him to learn those skills so that he becomes the next Root or Cook. It took Root a little while to figure it out too.
I think it is Lawrence's time to shine. Probably finally Foakes' moment too... I've no idea what they will do with Billings though. Burns I would give the West Indies at most as his very last chance.
I'd give Malan the West Indies, Crawley pencilled in for the entire year, and Bairstow gets the series too. Between Malan, Root, and Bairstow, I'm hoping that is a sufficiently senior spine around which the younger players can learn.
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Will Bairstow be fit for the Windies with his injured hand? Assuming that Stokes won't be included to give him time to get fit again.
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Pretty much with billyb’s side. No point having a mass clear out. Pope is 24 and gifted, at his age he is the outstanding batsmen but Lawrence may have more grit and that’s what Pope is lacking.
I think Sibley will come again myself and Burns has been working on his technique, that shows some courage when he’s got runs with it up till now.
Malan stays in with Root Stokes and Bairstow.
Opening I hope we stick with Burns and Crawley with Hameed and Sibley waiting.
Foakes to keep but England may give the gloves back to JB to get another bat into the team
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Someone on Reddit did an interesting breakdown on Ollie Pope’s red ball career.
Pope averages 99.94 at the Oval with 8 centuries in mere 23 innings.
Pope averages a rather substandard 37.12 away from the Oval. That’s from 73 innings and only 4 centuries.
So the easy solution reached is Pope is a) a flat track bully b) the Oval masks Pope’s shortcomings as a batsman.
Whichever way you look at it, Pope needs to move to a different county to make actual improvements to his game.
Flogging runs mercilessly at the Oval isn’t really proving he’s suitable for Test cricket.
On a tangent, last year when the Indians toured Australia. Prithvi Shaw came with a big reputation, but Ricky Ponting called him out for his poor work ethic. Well long story short - Shaw hasn’t been seen in the Test arena since.
Pope looks like he’s in the same situation as Shaw.
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Pretty much with billyb’s side. No point having a mass clear out. Pope is 24 and gifted, at his age he is the outstanding batsmen but Lawrence may have more grit and that’s what Pope is lacking.
I think Sibley will come again myself and Burns has been working on his technique, that shows some courage when he’s got runs with it up till now.
Malan stays in with Root Stokes and Bairstow.
Opening I hope we stick with Burns and Crawley with Hameed and Sibley waiting.
Foakes to keep but England may give the gloves back to JB to get another bat into the team
This isn’t meant to sound rude, but what you’re suggesting is that we basically stick with the exact same side that has had the most disappointing ashes in recent memory, no thanks. Go into every test trying to win, stop the needless rotation policy to gear up for the next ashes and pick the best players available. If it’s in the summer, pick them on form.
They may be good enough later down the line, but there is no defined solution to get them there. It’s just as likely there is a player sitting on the county circuit who can cut it as a test match player. This crop of players aren’t good enough and it’s been proven since 2019.
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I don''t see anything to recommend Hameed, Burns, Pope, Malan, Butler, Leach to a long-term test place.
Better to cut them loose now and try the alternatives.
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This isn’t meant to sound rude, but what you’re suggesting is that we basically stick with the exact same side that has had the most disappointing ashes in recent memory, no thanks. Go into every test trying to win, stop the needless rotation policy to gear up for the next ashes and pick the best players available. If it’s in the summer, pick them on form.
They may be good enough later down the line, but there is no defined solution to get them there. It’s just as likely there is a player sitting on the county circuit who can cut it as a test match player. This crop of players aren’t good enough and it’s been proven since 2019.
No rudeness received, it’s all opinions.
The problem as I see it is a lack of top order players, Crawley has shown he at least has the game to score runs, Lawrence has not had a real chance when compared to Pope for example.
I think Lawrence deserves that spot so we can see if he can make it, Foakes should be our keeper.
Outside of the main ones you want to get in, Joe Clarke looks like he might be good enough-he is not top order thou.
James Bracey is highly rated looks like he froze last time but could be an option as a newish player.
I don’t think practically England will make 4 or 5 changes to the batting but happy to read on here options at the top.
I don’t see too many others making a case-that of course has been our problem for a couple of years
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In selecting the West Indies squad, I think you start with who are your bankers going forward?
At present, I'd say that gives you Crawley, Root, Stokes, Robinson (if he does the conditioning work he needs). Archer of course would be if he was available.
Bairstow probably too, if fit, but he has to be given a consistent role. For me that's 5/6 bat and top slipper, with Foakes given the gloves. Anderson, Broad and Wood are around and about though I do think at least one younger bowler should be blooded.
So we need two top order bats, two middle order squad players, a seamer and a spinner. And the problem is you could genuinely perm any 6 from about 25 with equal likelihood of success.
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In terms of top order players - Yates is very promising and has a fairly classical technique that looks suited to test cricket, Bracey was unfairly thrown into an unfamiliar role (plus keeping) and probably deserves a go at 3 against a slightly less brilliant team than New Zealand, and they could do worse than have look at what work Sibley has done on his technique over the winter.
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Real shame that Dan Lawrence hasn't been given a chance to improve his reputation.
Agree till an extent, but also think the only guys who’ve really benefited from this tour are the ones that haven’t played. Certainly on the batting front.
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Brilliant from Wood this morning
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I feel like this game is probably the most winnable out of the entire series.
Unlikely, but we can do it. In theory.
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I feel like this game is probably the most winnable out of the entire series.
Unlikely, but we can do it. In theory.
I wish i shared your optimism mate 😁 256 already seems more than enough with our batting and their attack under lights
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I know, I know. If they make a decent start, they might at least get close. But every run scored now really hurts us... We've bowled really well, just needed a bit more luck.
Wood gets a thoroughly deserved 6-37. 270-odd to win...
Also for fun (before this innings):
Woakes: 141 runs from 3 matches at 28.2. 6 wickets from 3 matches at 55...
Stokes: 231 runs from 5 matches at 25.6. 4 wickets from 5 matches at 71.
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This would have been game on if we hadn't have batted like clowns yesterday
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I know, I know. If they make a decent start, they might at least get close. But every run scored now really hurts us... We've bowled really well, just needed a bit more luck.
Wood gets a thoroughly deserved 6-37. 270-odd to win...
Don't get me wrong mate, I'm backing us as always and hope we put up a good fight. Would be great to see a proper battle, but deep down I know it's probably misplaced optimism!
Great bowling from the will never be test class Mark Wood 😁
We'll knock these off in 20 odd overs at this rate!
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Burns has released the mane
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I feel like this game is probably the most winnable out of the entire series.
Unlikely, but we can do it. In theory.
We can, absolutely. But the odds our not in our favourite. It’s going to take 2 phenomenal batting performances
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Boland is gonna be difficult here
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I’m out the loop here.
Since when has hotspot made a comeback?
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Awesome from Wood he gives it everything when he plays and…..
Have we got a glimmer and just a glimmer of two guys forming a partnership at the top
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I can only see bbc clips has Burns slightly changed his movements ?
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Well that's annoying
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I can only see bbc clips has Burns slightly changed his movements ?
I didn’t notice any difference
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Urghhh can't they just give us this one 😭. Utterly relentless bowling attack.
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Sigh
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Surely that's enough of Malan.
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I'll give Malan a break, he missed the birth of his first child last night.
Crawley gone now. Start the car?
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This is probably the last stand
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Hope Root and Stokes can at least make this interesting for a little while. So difficult tho now in these conditions against a really high class attack.
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If England did this, wouldn't it be one of the great victories?
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Oh for fucks sake
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Predictably brainless cricket from England again...
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Ends a very poor tour from Stokes, regardless of injuries etc.
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Ends a very poor tour from Stokes, regardless of injuries etc.
Does that not come down to another issue with selection that we've thrown a man who hasn't played any cricket at all for 6 months, straight back into the side?
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Even when we are putting together a partnership I always feel as if we are just one wicket away from a collapse.
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Got to feel for Root there! Chance for Billings to show he can grit it out here, as this will be a serious examination.
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Joe Root 31 years old. Quite possible we Aussies won’t see him again down under. Shame for him that he never got that ton in Australia.
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Very unfortunate, I feel like if this was the first test match we may have had a stronger chance of winning.
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Scotty Boland might never get another cap but he’s made his three appearances very memorable.
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End of Pope’s test aspirations. Embarrassing yet again
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Test cricket is a wonderful thing 😁
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From the wickets in the top order, you'd possibly give only Root a pass. Absolutely wowful stuff, but not in anyway unexpected.
Congrats to Australia, completely outplayed a very poor England side.
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Absolute clowns
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I’m not sure Australia was so great during the whole ashes series, it’s just England have been sooooo bad. No grit and fight from the batsmen. Woeful
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If anyone would’ve told me we’ve have won 4-0, would’ve been 5-0 but for weather, with Smith averaging 30 and Warner averaging 34, I would have fell on the floor laughing.
England inept and absolute pathetic. This Australian side was there for the taking, and I’m a very biased Victorian…
If it wasn’t for monetary reasons, England don’t merit 5 tests in Australia.
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If anyone would’ve told me we’ve have won 4-0, would’ve been 5-0 but for weather, with Smith averaging 30 and Warner averaging 34, I would have fell on the floor laughing.
England inept and absolute pathetic. This Australian side was there for the taking, and I’m a very biased Victorian…
If it wasn’t for monetary reasons, England don’t merit 5 tests in Australia.
And just as biased New South Welshman here lol
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Well that went downhill very quickly. Sums up the series really, pretty glad it is over.
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If anyone would’ve told me we’ve have won 4-0, would’ve been 5-0 but for weather, with Smith averaging 30 and Warner averaging 34, I would have fell on the floor laughing.
England inept and absolute pathetic. This Australian side was there for the taking, and I’m a very biased Victorian…
If it wasn’t for monetary reasons, England don’t merit 5 tests in Australia.
The groundsman in Hobart wanted a 6 test series so they could have a test every ashes. It’s a beautiful arena and they produced a fun pitch.
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Bring on the tour of the West Indies. They’re a little more our standard. Can’t wait to see a close game
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Bring on the tour of the West Indies. They’re a little more our standard. Can’t wait to see a close game
Yep…some changes and a rebuild needed but let’s not get too down, the Aussies are pretty useless in our conditions.
I’m not for wholesale changes to our batting but before any of that happens someone has to sack Ashley Giles.
I fear however, that won’t happen. Root needs a class coach to work with our batting and help on the field.
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someone has to sack Ashley Giles.
I fear however, that won’t happen.
So someone needs to sack Tom Harrison. Preferably before he takes the massive financial bonus that he has awarded himself and done nothing to deserve.
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If anyone would’ve told me we’ve have won 4-0, would’ve been 5-0 but for weather, with Smith averaging 30 and Warner averaging 34, I would have fell on the floor laughing.
England inept and absolute pathetic. This Australian side was there for the taking, and I’m a very biased Victorian…
If it wasn’t for monetary reasons, England don’t merit 5 tests in Australia.
How very magnanimous of you! 😂
I wouldn't say you were there for the taking, far from it. Matching up player for player, you boys were always much stronger in every department.
Warner is not the player he was, but better than either of or openers. Labuschagne and Smith would get in anyone's top order. The players who've come into the middle order have performed and you're bowling was always looking stronger all round. Added to that our woeful prep and we were worlds apart. Nobody in England believed we'd win this series, we just expected a little fight.
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If anyone would’ve told me we’ve have won 4-0, would’ve been 5-0 but for weather, with Smith averaging 30 and Warner averaging 34, I would have fell on the floor laughing.
England inept and absolute pathetic. This Australian side was there for the taking, and I’m a very biased Victorian…
If it wasn’t for monetary reasons, England don’t merit 5 tests in Australia.
That's too harsh! Only needed two more batters to perform besides Malan and Root, but that never happened!
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But guys, its all okay. Ashley Piles has announced the England squad for 2025 already - and this time a combination of Jimmerframe Anderson, Super Stuey B and Cwiss Woakes will definitely get the job done, aided by Craig Overton filling in in Melbourne.
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That's too harsh! Only needed two more batters to perform besides Malan and Root, but that never happened!
Hmmm, I think we needed a few more things. A fit, firing Stokes, more batting like Bairstow in Sydney. Two openers. Archer and Stone fit. Amar Virdi three stone lighter.
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So someone needs to sack Tom Harrison. Preferably before he takes the massive financial bonus that he has awarded himself and done nothing to deserve.
Yes absolutely agree. ECB staff were furloughed and let go during the pandemic but he still collected a bonus during that period.
Both him and Giles should go so we can put more resources into the test team. These people running the game at the ECB are paid large sums and that has to be results based.
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Yep…some changes and a rebuild needed but let’s not get too down, the Aussies are pretty useless in our conditions.
hmmmm, pretty sure the 2019 ashes scoreline was 2 - 2 , so if Aus were useless, then Eng were equally useless in their own back yard.
After bowling Aus out for 155, and Burns and Crawley's start, England had all the momentum, and I thought were a genuine chance for a win. To lose 10/56 in 22 overs was..... well, it's hard to find words for!
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hmmmm, pretty sure the 2019 ashes scoreline was 2 - 2 , so if Aus were useless, then Eng were equally useless in their own back yard.
It took a once in a lifetime innings from Stokes to make that 2-2 and not 3-1. Let’s not forget too quickly.
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England made their highest Ashes opening stand in eight years and still got bowled out for 124.
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Smith singlehandedly kept Australia in that series though, one world class player doing extraordinary things doesn't mean you've got a good team.
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hmmmm, pretty sure the 2019 ashes scoreline was 2 - 2 , so if Aus were useless, then Eng were equally useless in their own back yard.
After bowling Aus out for 155, and Burns and Crawley's start, England had all the momentum, and I thought were a genuine chance for a win. To lose 10/56 in 22 overs was..... well, it's hard to find words for!
Yes 2019 was drawn series. To go back to a winning Ashes series for us we have to go back to 2010-11 series. I don’t recall an Australian win in the UK before 2010
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The reality is that these are 2 pretty poor sides in anything but their home conditions. Yes Stokes innings saved England in the last series but Smiths freakish form and Andersons injury were the only reasons it got to that point. If the injury had happened to Australias talisman instead of Englands the series would have been comfortably Englands.
Australia travel to pakistan next which will give them a good challenge considering their recent form in Asia and England go to West Indies who gave us a good hiding last time out there. Im expecting both away sides to lose.
Id like to see England pick their Best XI for each and every test match moving forward. The selction/rotation policy during this series has been village at best and Silverwood will be lucky to keep his job on those calls alone.
And please no more Woakes anywhere that doesnt use the Duke ball, absolutely toothless with the Kookaburra.
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Smith singlehandedly kept Australia in that series though, one world class player doing extraordinary things doesn't mean you've got a good team.
Smith averaged over 100 in consecutive Ashes series - 2017-18 at home and 2019 in England. He’s that good that he could carry his team.
For all the hype about Root he didn’t show he can emulate what Smith did previously in this series did he?
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It took a once in a lifetime innings from Stokes to make that 2-2 and not 3-1. Let’s not forget too quickly.
Pretty sure if Joel Wilson wasn’t blind we would’ve won in Leeds…
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The reality is that these are 2 pretty poor sides in anything but their home conditions. Yes Stokes innings saved England in the last series but Smiths freakish form and Andersons injury were the only reasons it got to that point. If the injury had happened to Australias talisman instead of Englands the series would have been comfortably Englands.
Australia travel to pakistan next which will give them a good challenge considering their recent form in Asia and England go to West Indies who gave us a good hiding last time out there. Im expecting both away sides to lose.
Id like to see England pick their Best XI for each and every test match moving forward. The selction/rotation policy during this series has been village at best and Silverwood will be lucky to keep his job on those calls alone.
And please no more Woakes anywhere that doesnt use the Duke ball, absolutely toothless with the Kookaburra.
Smith getting injured was why England got a draw in 2019.
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Smith getting injured was why England got a draw in 2019.
Smith missed 1 match out of 5.
Anderson got injured on the morning of the first Test and didnt bowl again in the series.
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Smith missed 1 match out of 5.
Anderson got injured on the morning of the first Test and didnt bowl again in the series.
Moreover, Australia got an in game replacement for Smith, who went a long way to saving the test for them, whereas England had to play 14/15 sessions of a test a strike bowler light.
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My player ratings for the series...
Burns 3
Hameed 1
Crawley 6
Malan 5
Root 7
Bairstow 7
Buttler 3
Woakes 5
Billings 5
Pope 2
Woakes 5
Anderson 7
Broad 8
Robinson 6
Wood 9
Leach 5
Harris 5
Warner 7
Labuschagne 9
Khawaja 9
Smith 6
Head 10
Carey 6
Green 9
Hazelwood 7
Cummins 10
Starc 9
Boland 10
Lyon 7
Richardson 7
Neser 6
Edit: Took one off Lyon because I can't stand the guy 😂
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My player ratings for the series...
Burns 3
Hameed 1
Crawley 6
Malan 5
Root 7
Bairstow 7
Buttler 3
Woakes 5
Billings 5
Pope 2
Woakes 5
Anderson 7
Broad 8
Robinson 6
Wood 9
Leach 5
Harris 5
Warner 7
Labuschagne 9
Khawaja 9
Smith 6
Head 10
Carey 6
Green 9
Hazelwood 7
Cummins 10
Starc 9
Boland 10
Lyon 8
Richardson 7
Neser 6
Generous to Burns (sorry, 1 would have been too generous) Woakes and Wood, probably a tad kind to Green too.
A little hard on Bairstow in the circumstances. And definitely hard on Boland, he was way better than a 10!
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Boland was unreal, wasn't he? Looked like he could take a wicket every ball, and he was so consistent. Had a bit of McGrath about him.
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Smith averaged over 100 in consecutive Ashes series - 2017-18 at home and 2019 in England. He’s that good that he could carry his team.
For all the hype about Root he didn’t show he can emulate what Smith did previously in this series did he?
Not sure anyone will have a run of Ashes form like Smith's again for a long long time. He just looked unstoppable.
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My player ratings for the series...
Burns 3
Hameed 1
Crawley 6
Malan 5
Root 7
Bairstow 7
Buttler 3
Woakes 5
Billings 5
Pope 2
Woakes 5
Anderson 7
Broad 8
Robinson 6
Wood 9
Leach 5
Harris 5
Warner 7
Labuschagne 9
Khawaja 9
Smith 6
Head 10
Carey 6
Green 9
Hazelwood 7
Cummins 10
Starc 9
Boland 10
Lyon 7
Richardson 7
Neser 6
Edit: Took one off Lyon because I can't stand the guy 😂
Some very very generous scores for some England players. I would put some in minus numbers!
The Aussies look about right, although maybe Harris and Carey are both 1 too high.
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The reality is that these are 2 pretty poor sides in anything but their home conditions. Yes Stokes innings saved England in the last series but Smiths freakish form and Andersons injury were the only reasons it got to that point. If the injury had happened to Australias talisman instead of Englands the series would have been comfortably Englands.
Australia travel to pakistan next which will give them a good challenge considering their recent form in Asia and England go to West Indies who gave us a good hiding last time out there. Im expecting both away sides to lose.
Id like to see England pick their Best XI for each and every test match moving forward. The selction/rotation policy during this series has been village at best and Silverwood will be lucky to keep his job on those calls alone.
And please no more Woakes anywhere that doesnt use the Duke ball, absolutely toothless with the Kookaburra.
They have no choice but to rotate the bowling. Broad, Anderson and Wood are all incapable (through age and/or injury) of playing a full series. This pretty much screws England before you even account for the awful batting since to make this work they need 6-8 test calibre bowlers and they have 3.
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Smith missed 1 match out of 5.
Anderson got injured on the morning of the first Test and didnt bowl again in the series.
1 and a half tests…
Had Smith not got injured at lords we would’ve won there as well. Smith would’ve got 200.
Anderson decided to go into the series unfit, that’s on his ego. No one else.
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Moreover, Australia got an in game replacement for Smith, who went a long way to saving the test for them, whereas England had to play 14/15 sessions of a test a strike bowler light.
Did I miss something? I’m pretty certain we didn’t bat for 14 sessions…
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Boland was unreal, wasn't he? Looked like he could take a wicket every ball, and he was so consistent. Had a bit of McGrath about him.
Long overdue for big Scotty!
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England did not show up. At all.
Rory Burns has a nice mullet. Bring back mullets. :D
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Did I miss something? I’m pretty certain we didn’t bat for 14 sessions…
Bloody well felt like it at times 🤣
My point is Smith was replaced in game and missed one test, Anderson missed all but an hour of the game with no replacement and we saw no more of our best bowler in the series.
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I can't believe that more isn't said here about the amazingly poor captaincy. Root is often asleep at the wheel and fails to make the most of opportunities and resorts to defensive fields all too frequently. Despite the lack of grit and obvious influence of short form cricket on the batting line up, the single biggest issue is who is going to lead the team- Root isn't your man.
I really thought that Crawley and Burns (well not Burns, I don't rate him at all) were going to take it up to us last night at 0/60, but the bowling partnership with Boland and Green just broke the game open. Although Boland only has three in the wickets column he certainly applied plenty of scoreboard pressure which helped the other bowlers in the side.
I was disappointed in Stokes, the trap was there and just like Smith he took the bait. He's such a determined player I would have really enjoyed a measured and gritty innings from him, even as an Australian.
It's not all good news for Aus though, plenty of decisions to make. Opener(s)? Time to blood a new spinner? Fast bowling excess of talent and not enough spots?
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Excess of world class fast bowling is a nice problem to have 😂
I'd love to see Pucovski back in the Aussie side opening but it's difficult not to worry about his long term health with all these head injuries.
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Nick Hoult's piece in The Telegraph about the tour culture/preparations is absolutely brutal
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Nick Hoult's piece in The Telegraph about the tour culture/preparations is absolutely brutal
Just read this. Ollie Robinson is named and shamed as someone not taking their fitness seriously. Playing golf on a day off and recovering from a shoulder injury is not a good look. Likewise the skin-fold test debacle. That could also have been him.
I thought the Rory Burns concern were blown out of proportion a little. Just because he hasn't thought about facing the first ball, doesn't mean he doesn't take his role seriously and to expect him to speak up in team meetings as a guy with a measly 30 test caps is a bit much.
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Nick Hoult's piece in The Telegraph about the tour culture/preparations is absolutely brutal
Can someone cut and paste this for non subscribers please
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...to expect him to speak up in team meetings as a guy with a measly 30 test caps is a bit much.
A measly 30 Test caps! :o
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Have not to got access to the article but sounds like it might be going the same way as the KP Scapegoat essay from a previous Ashes tour.
Robinson would not be the only player to get to international level and find his fitness could be better.
Sibley shed 2 stone after being motivated by the fitness of Stokes and Butler. The step up from County to Test level has always been an issue.
What needs to happen first is Giles and Harrison,who is on a 500k plus salary, need to be sacked.
I fear thou myself only Silverwood will be binned and that won’t solve our problems.
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Please can someone copy and paste?
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England saved their worst for last as they signed off a calamitous Ashes series in Hobart with their most shambolic collapse of a tour littered with contenders.
They lost all 10 wickets for just 56 runs, queueing up to throw away their wickets in a blitz of hapless dismissals in the space of 22.4 overs. It was an embarrassment that will take some getting over and only increase the call for change in a set-up that has not only forgotten how to win but how to compete.
The nailbiting draw in Sydney means Joe Root's side will not go down in the history books with their whitewashed predecessors from 2006/07 and 2013/14, but few would disagree that this has been a less competitive and less accomplished campaign.
How did it come to this?
Preparation
This was the theory: “We want to travel to Australia fitter, faster, leaner, more ready than ever before," said England head coach Chris Silverwood last year.
This, according to one player, was the reality: “Honestly, everyone has got a story about how shambolic it has been.”
From the moment England's players set off for Australia on Nov 4, everything that could go wrong, did go wrong, although in fact the disaster was set in motion well before even then.
Preparation had already been hampered by the group being split in two between those who went to the UAE for the World Cup and the others who flew direct to Australia. They were separated for two weeks while those from the UAE did their quarantine on the Gold Coast, further hampering communication and planning.
The bubble made everything harder when it came to organising nets and matches for those in Queensland. England’s only warm-up game descended into farce at the Ian Healy Oval, a nice club ground but lacking facilities for international sport. The scoreboard failed, the team analyst could only film for one day before giving up due to a lack of technical support and what was supposed to be a first-class fixture descended into middle practice with players batting three or even four times.
Joe Root bats during an England intra-squad Ashes Tour match against England Lions
England's only warm-up game descended into farce at the Ian Healy Oval CREDIT: GETTY IMAGES
No sensible judgements could be drawn, but on the back of this game England picked Ollie Pope ahead of Jonny Bairstow for the first Test. Rain did not help, of course, but having agreed such a tight schedule, England were always hostages to fortune. Rain forced bowlers to try and attune to Australia indoors, instead of on the rock-hard pitches, and batsmen had to become accustomed to the bounce against bowling machines, and coaches with dog throwers. Why England, so badly undercooked, then batted first in Brisbane is a question that will haunt Root and Silverwood.
Even once the series had started, the spectre of Covid hung over the tour. Players have become wearily used to PCR testing but even their patience snapped in Sydney when they were forced to undergo a much more invasive procedure because the testing clinics were unable to turn around normal PCR tests in time.
This procedure involved a swab going up the nose and down the back of the throat in one go and is not very pleasant. Some players refused to do it, others did it and then made a stand saying they would not let their partners and young children go through the same procedure. It led to the biggest row between players and management of the whole tour and was only resolved by the resumption of normal PCR testing for those who refused.
Selection
When the issue of England's awful selections for the first two Tests was put to Silverwood, he replied that the series was "a marathon, not a sprint".
He was wrong. An Ashes tour is like an 800m race: you sprint and hope you can hang on long enough. Fall behind in Australia and it is all over. England mistakenly thought they could copy India's success in 2021 and make it a squad game, but they lacked the depth and leadership to make that happen.
England left out James Anderson and Stuart Broad in Brisbane, with concerns over their fitness. While Anderson was understandable, Broad - even if he had only just returned from an ankle injury - was ready to play on a green pitch that was more befitting his home ground of Trent Bridge than the Gabba.
Unleashing him against David Warner, his 'bunny' from 2019, seemed a no-brainer and yet England picked Jack Leach ahead of him. Only Mark Wood, briefly, went round the wicket to Warner on the first morning. As soon as Broad did so in Melbourne and Sydney - when it was far too late - Warner's threat declined and he ended with a pair.
Had England bowled first and thrown their own bowlers at an equally undercooked Australia they may have gained an early foothold. Instead Root - who regularly pokes fun at Nasser Hussain for bowling first in Brisbane in 2002 - wanted to be bold and send a message by batting first. And so batsmen who had mainly netted indoors were bowled out for 147. There was no way back.
The bad calls did not end there - chief among them being England's handling of Wood. The Durham bowler became the tourists' prized asset, their only genuine pace option, and yet he ended up bowling more overs when the series was dead than when it was alive. What a waste.
England had stacked their chips on the pink-ball Test in Adelaide because Anderson had taken 5-43 there four years ago. But having relentlessly extolled the virtues of pace for the last four years, they picked the same three seamers - Broad, Anderson and Chris Woakes - who had lost at the same venue in 2017 by 120 runs. They were worse this time.
Leach was not picked because England had been spooked by how he was mauled in Brisbane. They ended up using two part-time spinners and Ollie Robinson bowling off-spin and had to watch as Nathan Lyon took five wickets for Australia. Even the groundsman tried to warn them, saying 48 hours before the game: "History says that the pitch will spin." England did not listen.
Ollie Robinson bowls off-spin
In Brisbane, England resorted to Ollie Robinson bowling off-spin CREDIT: PA
Even selection away from the Test team was in chaos. On the first day of the Gabba Test, England Lions were due to play Australia A. England could have used it to give time in the middle to Jonny Bairstow, Dan Lawrence and Zak Crawley. Instead Mo Bobat, the performance director who is in charge of the Lions, picked the team 48 hours before the game. England only realised their error when they saw that Australia A included Test squad players Usman Khawaja, Micheal Neser and Scott Boland. All would later play in the series and make an impression, while England were left to pick from players who had played no red-ball cricket.
Selection was made mainly by the coach and captain but also chief scout, James Taylor, back home in England, with Bobat contributing. Players were frustrated that Taylor, who was not even in Australia, could have so much influence from thousands of miles away.
Culture
As Silverwood reflected on the tour he wondered if he had been too soft on the players. Certainly the cosiness of the set-up has been a major talking point.
One player refused to take part in the skin-fold test - a gauge of body fat - and, when pressed, accused England of trying to fat shame him. The test was never carried out.
Fitness levels clearly dipped for some players, who started the tour in good shape but appeared to let that side drift as the tour went on. Robinson's conditioning was an issue from the first Test, when he spent time off the field, but became a recurring theme in every game.
When England had the chance for a day off in Hobart, Robinson went and played golf even though he was troubled by a shoulder problem that threatened his chances of playing, with Craig Overton preparing to play in his place. Robinson declared himself fit on the morning of the match but then went down with a back spasm. England needed to be tougher and the medics overrule him but Silverwood and Root needed a win and Robinson is a good bowler.
There were also concerns over a drinking culture within the whole touring party and whether restrictions were loosened too much in Brisbane in the weeks leading up to the series and before the Covid bubble was tightened when families arrived.
Seeking solace in the glass is not unusual on Ashes tours and even more so in bubbles, which have a two-fold effect. The players have drinks laid on in the hotels which are at least away from camera phones and the public, but on the rare days they are allowed out they are more likely to go wild. It is certain that the midnight curfew introduced by Andrew Strauss will return when Covid bubbles go, the players failing to do enough to convince the management they can be fully trusted again.
Silverwood's management style was also an issue. He finds press conferences and broadcast interviews uncomfortable and struggles to express himself, which begs the question of how he handles team meetings and speaks to players.
Some senior players felt left out of discussions over tactics and another was angered to learn he had been dropped after reading it in the press. Another felt he had not been given enough time to prepare for a Test, learning only 48 hours before that he would be playing.
There are mitigating circumstances: insiders felt it was because Silverwood had too much on his plate and struggled to delegate to his staff, some of whom also found it hard to step up to the demands of an Ashes tour, a situation not helped by him contracting Covid.
There is also the point that minimal communication can be interpreted as strong leadership when the team are winning, but with this particular group - few of whom are natural leaders - more interaction was needed.
Tactics and performance
Dropping 17 catches and taking three wickets with no-balls added up to an entire Test match of missed chances and those mistakes come down to discipline and hard work. England bowlers, particularly Robinson, constantly overstep when bowling in the nets and it cost him the wicket of Marnus Labuschagne at the Adelaide Oval.
The decision to use Stokes as an enforcer was a gamble on hard Australian pitches in sweltering heat and with his lack of cricket. It is a punishing routine for a bowler to go through and Stokes snapped in Sydney, suffering a serious side strain that affected him for the rest of the match and the Hobart Test, too.
The tactics for Leach also caused bemusement among the squad. Before the Brisbane Test it was agreed England would be defensive when Leach came on for the first time, knowing Australia would be scenting blood. Players were incredulous when Root brought the field in and attacked, with Leach being taken apart by Australia's top order. It took him weeks to get over and affected selection for Adelaide.
Jack Leach looks distraught in Brisbane
Jack Leach (left) was taken apart by Australia's top order in Brisbane CREDIT: GETTY IMAGES
Yet there were also issues around players not taking enough individual responsibility. Before Brisbane, Burns was asked if he had thought about facing the first ball of the series. “Nah, not really", was his reply.
That lack of forethought showed as he was bowled around his legs by Mitchell Starc. Ultimately, Burns lost his place, not just because of his form, but also his failure to speak more regularly in meetings and bring his experience to bear.
And when communication was clear, it still backfired. After the Adelaide Test there was a lengthy team meeting in which Silverwood made the batsmen watch footage of their dismissals, but the exchanges became heated as batsmen and bowlers lined up against each other.
In the same meeting, Jos Buttler told players they had to be patient at the crease, but he was out in the next Test hitting to deep-square leg on the stroke of tea. It summed up his tour.
"One team meeting was never going to change anything," said one player present.
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That is harrowing to read. 2 years of talking about how prepared they were going to be for this series and that's what they come up with.
There are some players who should be out of the test picture but how on earth can they move forward without some management heads rolling ASAP?
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That is harrowing to read. 2 years of talking about how prepared they were going to be for this series and that's what they come up with.
There are some players who should be out of the test picture but how on earth can they move forward without some management heads rolling ASAP?
You said it Jimbo.
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A measly 30 Test caps! :o
I meant in context to others present.
Anderson, Broad, Woakes, Buttler, Bairstow, Stokes, Root all with more caps. Why did they expect Burns to address the room?
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And to be frank he hadn’t thought out the first ball he was going to receive? Well so what….
Maybe he doesn’t think about it till the morning over the game, 10 mins before start, after his breakfast?
Maybe he doesn’t want to pre judge his movements
Maybe…..well it could be anything.
You can see what is going to happen here a mile off.. Silverwood does the chief selector and coaches job in one and saves the EVB paying two salaries, can’t do both jobs and gets fired because of the 4 nil score line.
Harrison and Giles parade a new coach before the Windies tour and we are back on track.
Only we are not because having a fall guy never sorts anything out long term. It’s absolutely appaling
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That is harrowing to read. 2 years of talking about how prepared they were going to be for this series and that's what they come up with.
There are some players who should be out of the test picture but how on earth can they move forward without some management heads rolling ASAP?
Talk about blow the lid off it! There is some absolutely mental stuff there and it's quite staggering even after knowing how bad we were.
I really don't see how the management keep their jobs now this is in the public domain.
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I've just listened to the Silverwood interview. What he is saying it is exactly right.
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I meant in context to others present.
Anderson, Broad, Woakes, Buttler, Bairstow, Stokes, Root all with more caps. Why did they expect Burns to address the room?
Because he's a 31 year-old Test cricketer with 30 caps?
No-one said it should be him speaking instead of anyone else.
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1 and a half tests…
Had Smith not got injured at lords we would’ve won there as well. Smith would’ve got 200.
Had he not been carried off when he was, there was a decent chance of bloodshed the way Archer was all over him.
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Had he not been carried off when he was, there was a decent chance of bloodshed the way Archer was all over him.
I’d like to remind you Jofra Archer has dismissed Steve Smith zero times in Test cricket. And considering how Archer’s career is panning out, hitting Smith is most likely his only noteworthy Test achievement…
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I've just listened to the Silverwood interview. What he is saying it is exactly right.
I presume you are talking about his interview with Agnew.
He is just saying the obvious, what everyone else is saying. It doesn't mean he shouldn't get the boot for what has been a shocking tour from a management point of view.
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I’d like to remind you Jofra Archer has dismissed Steve Smith zero times in Test cricket. And considering how Archer’s career is panning out, hitting Smith is most likely his only noteworthy Test achievement…
Bit early to say that. Whereas we can all say with confidence that cheating then crying like a five year old when he was caught out will undoubtedly be Smith's. :o
Notwithstanding which, Smith has been heading ever closer to bunnydom against the short ball since that Lords test.
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Silverwood can't be blamed for the small percentage of the population who play cricket, nor for the narrowness of its socio-economic or ethnic background. He can't be blamed for the poor standard of the domestic game which is wholly inadequate as the step below the international game.
What Silverwood does take responsibility for is the planning for this tour and the management of our playing resources across a 5 match series. In that respect, Silverwood's performance has been an abject failure. It is inconceivable that he can remain in post
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To put Wood's effort in perspective:
https://twitter.com/benjonescricket/status/1483319172688138241?t=wkBMtlWu80p6C-gvj80NIA&s=19
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https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/ashes-ecb-investigates-after-joe-root-and-james-anderson-are-seen-among-intoxicated-people-in-hobart-team-hotel-1297388 (https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/ashes-ecb-investigates-after-joe-root-and-james-anderson-are-seen-among-intoxicated-people-in-hobart-team-hotel-1297388)
Hahhahaha! Pretty harmless stuff I guess, but it just adds to the shambles of the tour from an English PR perspective!
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They're really trying to make something out of nothing on this one
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They're really trying to make something out of nothing on this one
Yeah absolutely, post series drink happens all the time. As long as no COVID rules were broken it’s just a pointless story.
Unfortunately it will just get used against the players and coach when the real problems are higher up
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Really, this is what its come to in the world of journalism now?! 'Are seen among intoxicated people'. So nothing to say Root and Anderson especially had done anything wrong. A few if the Aussie and England players have a few drinks after a long tour and make a little too much noise maybe. Top scoop! 😂
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thorpe showing his true colours, why was he filming it in the first place unless he was going to leak it.
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I think it was more a representation of Thorpe being on the sauce until 6am…
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I think it was more a representation of Thorpe being on the sauce until 6am…
Was it 6am? They are still in their whites!
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Michael Carberry and Steve James on last night's 5 Live Cricket Show are well worth a listen.
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Was it 6am? They are still in their whites!
According to here it was: https://t.co/iUlMyXjqED
Still think this is making a mountain out of a molehill
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Michael Carberry and Steve James on last night's 5 Live Cricket Show are well worth a listen.
Where can I find that please mate
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Where can I find that please mate
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0bhsk7y (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0bhsk7y)
Sorry, should have said TMS.
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"We've stopped teaching kids the basics."
Hope that isn't too much of a spoiler. ;)
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0bhsk7y (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0bhsk7y)
Sorry, should have said TMS.
Thanks for that
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Appears from today's news that the police were called to the bar because Thorpe was smoking a cigar indoors. Hard to understand why Thorpe was filming the incident and then leaked the footage but safe to assume he won't be part of an England coaching set up again.
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Well if the law says you cannot smoke inside then you can’t.
I think myself from a performance point of view you have to question what is being done with our batsmen, yes playing CC in spring and autumn is rubbish-however some of our dismissals were very poor.
We do need a coach who knows test match batting and can get that mindset and technique into the players.
Pope, Sibley, etc have gone backwards in the last two years and that cannot be right.
I see Alex Lees is being tipped to tour the Windies, another mid thirties averaging player-let’s hope they know more about his character to step up
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Think Lees has done pretty well since his last move on a difficult surface, worth a crack at least. Can't do worse than the incumbents have just done.
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I thought you might. :D
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Think Lees has done pretty well since his last move on a difficult surface, worth a crack at least. Can't do worse than the incumbents have just done.
Well….selection has been done both ways, trescothick and vaughan(and Hussein) plucked out and did well with nothing special behind them. Pope averages 50 plus and has not so far got anywhere near his potential.
The other top order players mentioned on BBC were Josh Bohannon and Yates.
Have to say I think they should pick on character, I think Foakes can scrap in the keepers position and technique wise he’s pretty good.
Alex Lees will get picked and he will have a lot of goodwill to succeed I think
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I know it’s not really your point, but Hameed didn’t manage to exchange that goodwill for many runs 😬
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I know it’s not really your point, but Hameed didn’t manage to exchange that goodwill for many runs 😬
You’re right and a full season for Notts may work for him.
He is lacking a back foot game so Australia was going to be tough.
As opposed to Crawley who had loads of low scores but looking ok when he got in.
I don’t think selection of the batsmen has ever been harder to do myself.
Us armchair selectors and those who do it for a living included :)
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I thought you might. :D
Averaged 39 last season playing a lot of innings at Durham which is never a particularly easy place to bat. Did you want offer an informed opinion of your own or just smarmy nothings?
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All I want this year from the test team is for them to show that they are fighting and improving. I want to see top-order players scoring hundreds that aren't called Joe Root. More hundreds. I want to see the team batting for a long time and scoring 300+ in 70% of innings.
So non-Root hundreds and 300+. That is the starting point for our test side, I think. Who is capable of that?
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Look, Lees wouldn't be the worst call. He's solid, has overcome tough times in his career, is decent in the slips. They need to try someone new, and the only other contenders are Yates and Rhodes (unless they go left field and try Vince there) so...
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Don’t forget jake Libby, scored a lot of runs consistently over the last couple of seasons
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Don’t forget jake Libby, scored a lot of runs consistently over the last couple of seasons
I reckon Libby will end up as another Northeast or Hildreth who fans will think was unlucky not to get a crack. Not being on the Lions tour to Aus will count against him in the short term.
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https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-20/is-english-crickets-class-problem-behind-their-ashes-defeat/100762798 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-20/is-english-crickets-class-problem-behind-their-ashes-defeat/100762798)
More privileged than the House of Lords. And we wonder why theres no backbone.
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Not sure if the admins want to start a new thread but the Women's Ashes start in just over an hour.
With them playing the multi-format again they start with 3 x T20's, then a Test, then 3 x ODI's . 2 pts available for the white ball games and 4pts for the test.
Australia are obviously favourites but we are capable of a surprise and the Aussies have just lost Beth Mooney to injury which is a massive blow.
Also if the ladies win it, it will heap a whole load of pressure on the ECB about how bad the men were.
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Not sure if the admins want to start a new thread but the Women's Ashes start in just over an hour.
With them playing the multi-format again they start with 3 x T20's, then a Test, then 3 x ODI's . 2 pts available for the white ball games and 4pts for the test.
Australia are obviously favourites but we are capable of a surprise and the Aussies have just lost Beth Mooney to injury which is a massive blow.
Also if the ladies win it, it will heap a whole load of pressure on the ECB about how bad the men were.
The way the women’s ashes are structured would heavily favour our men’s team with ODI and T20 involved. Albeit the point system favours the winner of the single test match.
What would be interesting is if you had to pick one 12 man squad to play all of the formats in a series.
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The way the women’s ashes are structured would heavily favour our men’s team with ODI and T20 involved. Albeit the point system favours the winner of the single test match.
What would be interesting is if you had to pick one 12 man squad to play all of the formats in a series.
Interesting thought, something like:
Batters
Root
Bairstow (WK backup)
Crawley
Foakes (WK)
Buttler
Allrounders
Woakes
Stokes
Ali
Bowlers
Archer
Stone
Rashid
Wood
Think that gives roughly the best coverage for all three formats from current England players if we pretend they're all fit?
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Interesting thought, something like:
Batters
Root
Bairstow (WK backup)
Crawley
Foakes (WK)
Buttler
Allrounders
Woakes
Stokes
Ali
Bowlers
Archer
Stone
Rashid
Wood
Think that gives roughly the best coverage for all three formats from current England players if we pretend they're all fit?
I think it’s really a interesting thought. The test match might end inside 2 days 😂
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I think it’s really a interesting thought. The test match might end inside 2 days 😂
Doesn't matter if you smash them 5-0 in the white ball though 😂
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Doesn't matter if you smash them 5-0 in the white ball though 😂
Absolutely not!
The women’s ashes structure could be what’s seen in the men’s if the world test championship and one day championship don’t take off.
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Absolutely not!
The women’s ashes structure could be what’s seen in the men’s if the world test championship and one day championship don’t take off.
Don't know how I feel about it.
Ideal scenario it revitalises some slightly more tired series and produces a bit more of a narrative than "lost the test series, won the ODIs, drew the T20s".
But then you see with the women's game that the test cricket ends up being marginalised a bit.
Would be interesting to see, applying the current points setup from the women's Ashes, how the men's Ashes series of recent years would have gone.
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I wouldn't be keen personally - I think as you say it ends up with the Test being devalued, and there is already sufficient risk to what will always remain the greatest format of the game - though it could be used as a way to get the developing nations like Afghanistan and Ireland greater exposure I guess.
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I read Thorpe's autobiography once, mostly just to find out why he was such a kernt towards his Surrey teammate Alex Tudor on his only chance to make a test century. From reading it, it turns out it was just because Thorpe's a bit of a kernt.
This latest behaviour is just further confirmation of:
A: His inability to become a better human.
B: The ECB's complete lack of judgement.
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Silverwood can't be blamed for the small percentage of the population who play cricket, nor for the narrowness of its socio-economic or ethnic background. He can't be blamed for the poor standard of the domestic game which is wholly inadequate as the step below the international game.
What Silverwood does take responsibility for is the planning for this tour and the management of our playing resources across a 5 match series. In that respect, Silverwood's performance has been an abject failure. It is inconceivable that he can remain in post
All very true.
So Silverwood sacks Thorpe, Giles sacks Silverwood, Harrison sacks Giles, who sacks Harrison?
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All very true.
So Silverwood sacks Thorpe, Giles sacks Silverwood, Harrison sacks Giles, who sacks Harrison?
Well said. Harrison shared part of a 1.2 million pound bonus on top of a 500k a year salary in the same period 62 ECB staff were let go.
Press reports Harrison may be coming to the end of a 7 year cycle this year.
We need a big reset and it can be done but not without significant changes.
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All very true.
So Silverwood sacks Thorpe, Giles sacks Silverwood, Harrison sacks Giles, who sacks Harrison?
Harrison retires after collecting the bonus.
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Harrison retires after collecting the bonus.
Talk about failing upwards.
At this rate he'll be our next Prime Minister.