Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Latest Matches => Topic started by: WalkingWicket37 on March 05, 2013, 09:11:52 PM
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No Swanny due to elbow flaring up, Monty playing instead. Compton opening and Root in at 6 again.
Broad gets a place in the side ahead of Onions, but that may be to try and strengthen the tail, 9,10 & 11 of Finn, Jimmy & Monty seem weaker than England's usual tail.
New Zealand won the toss and bowling 1st in overcast conditions, could be interesting.
What do we all think then?
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I would have played woakes and used Root as the spinner.
Monty is quality though
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Possibly not the worst call that Buzz; though I suspect that Team England thinking is far too rigid to consider it
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Are there any highlights on terrestrial telly?
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my thoughts on Bell are well enunciated elsewhere..
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why watch highlights when you can watch it now master fattus........go on, you know you want to!!
http://cricfree.tv/live/live_sports_streaming/new_zealand_v_england:_first_test_day_one/3188 (http://cricfree.tv/live/live_sports_streaming/new_zealand_v_england:_first_test_day_one/3188)
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Oh apparently my flash player isn't right on this blinking pad thingy!
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Shame it has not started due to bad light
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get a laptop you luddite!
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What the hell has Pauly C done to his arm?!
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surgery on the tendons on his thumb, (No Swearing Please) it trying to put batteries in his kids xmas pressie or something
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big cast for a thumb injury!!
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laptop seems to be full of wormbots, fembots and Trojan Ponies or something!
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big cast for a thumb injury!!
suppose it depends how far up his bum his thumb was when he slipped and landed on it
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very worried about Swann, it appears he's not really recovered from this elbow operation. Could it threaten his career??
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They've just said he's out of the series...... :(
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Mind games are starting
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He's out and lets hope the operation is a success.
Swanny is our best spinner since....god knows when!!
We need him for the ashes
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They've just said he's out of the series...... :(
Yep. I was listening to something on the way from nets a few mins ago and they were saying he's desperate to play in the next two ashes series but is really struggling with his elbow and has been for a while. Without him we aren't stuffed but we would certainly lose a bit of bite.
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Tredders can do a job as well, definitely best of the rest for off spin and undoubtedly better than anything Australia will have...
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Monty is a a good bowler and it would be good to see England developing a long term replacement to swann anyway (otherwise we'll be like Australia are now in a few years!!).
Swann is a fair bit ahead of our next best though in my opinion. Root seems to do a job, Tredwell keeps it tight so could be an option. Monty has to be in currently though. I love monty but man he is shocking at batting and fielding!!
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Monty is a good spinner he's shown that on many occasion
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Could this be a reason to give someone else a go in this series? No disrespect intended but if England are going to experiment, New Zealand are probably the side to do it against, especially with the current schedule.
NZ are certainly one of the teams (currently) in world cricket when it's an acceptable risk to blood one or two for the future so to speak. Them and the WI's are another one currently. So the likes of Root, Bairstow, Taylor and a young spinner (who is our young exciting prospect of a swann replacement by the way???)... Please don't say Briggs!
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Another place to watch online is http://1tvlive.in/star-cricket-4/ (http://1tvlive.in/star-cricket-4/)
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suppose it depends how far up his bum his thumb was when he slipped and landed on it
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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Would it be Borthwick?
Could be. I'll leave that musing to someone more familiar with County Cricket. I don't watch much County Cricket I'm ashamed to say so don't know it too well or it's up and coming players.
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Could be. I'll leave that musing to someone more familiar with County Cricket. I don't watch much County Cricket I'm ashamed to say so don't know it too well or it's up and coming players.
Simon Kerrigan? David Wainwright had a very good season as well. Azeem Rafiq has talent as well. Shame about Adil Rashid not having progressed how he should have... But definitely not Danny Briggs! Please don't be Danny Briggs... :(
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I cant take anyone seriously as a cricketer with the same name as a character after whom a tv series was named in the eighties... Danny Briggs? Are you sure that's not just a stage name?
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Hopefully the ECB are bring through the next crop of 20 something spinners and eyeing up the next batch of 15/18 yr old ones too. Build on the success and ensure future success.
It's a fair should about Broad and Patel getting in so maybe Briggs deserves a few caps too :) ALthough we have also given Bell a load of caps so there's something wrong somewhere :) :) :)
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I cant take anyone seriously as a cricketer with the same name as a character after whom a tv series was named in the eighties... Danny Briggs? Are you sure that's not just a stage name?
Wasn't that Johnny Briggs?
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Wasn't that Johnny Briggs?
You may very well be right, but the wine says that it sounds like his younger brother so the logic still applies :)
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Patel's first class averages -
Batting: 38.98
Bowling: 39.33
Briggs' first class averages -
Batting: 10.08 (Not a surprise)
Bowling: 32.66
Patel's test averages -
Batting: 15.57
Bowling: 64.25
Do we (as in qualified for England!) have any under 21 batsmen averaging 40+ in County Cricket currently? Or any bowlers averaging <25 ??
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Here is a few County Championship Div 1 averages for 2012.
Alex Hales - 34.65
RHB - 37.00
Luke Wells 37.53
James Taylor - 32.00
Rory Burns - 42.67
Varun Chopra - 41.12
All played at least 8 games.
Varun Chopra gets no where near the respect he deserves, fantastic batsman and amazing hands at first slip.
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hasn't rained in two months, Most of the country is in a a drought. Schedule a test, and the heavens open up.
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England's next spinner - I would say for Test cricket it will be one of Kerrigan, Rafiq and Rashid. Yes, Rashid - he's had a poor couple of years, not helped by being so shabbily treated when he was with England last, but the sheer weight of talent will come through in the end (and aside from any other concern, a front line spinner who is great in the field and good enough to bat seven is worth a punt any day).
Briggs is more of a one day option, Borthwick.....maybe one day, but I just can't quite see it at the moment.
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Varun Chopra gets no where near the respect he deserves, fantastic batsman and amazing hands at first slip.
Completely agree - 2 consecutive 1000+ runs seasons and sometimes holds the Warwickshire batting line up together on his own. Great slipper also. Make struggle to break in now with Compton in and Root pencilled in next, but a fine batsmen and still relatively young.
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Chopra is an odd one - he's had talent for years but only in the last two years has he made anything like the runs he would have been expected to. Is he test class? Is he better than James Hildreth, Adam Lyth, James Taylor, Alex Hales et al?
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As Manormaniac mentions why does no one talk about Alex Hales for the Test (or even just ODI) side? Has he already been consigned to the role of T20 specialist at the age of 24? Bearing in mind some of his performances in an England shirt he obviously has the temperament for it and I would suggest the ability too.......
Not saying he should come in immediately, just saying don't forget about him. If he played for Australia he would be in all three sides... ;)
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The temprament is definitely there, he just needs time in the middle in first class cricket and for England A to improve in the longer form.
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I like hales, got nothing against him playing for England.
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I'd be surprised if Rashid ever plays a Test match for England. He hasn't set the world on fire recently and from the games I've seen he's done better in limited overs cricket in the last couple of years. If England plump for a leggy I hope and think it will be Borthwick
Rashid might be able to bat at 7 in county cricket but for England not a prayer. It would weaken the team considerably when you consider what a job Matt Prior does there
Rafiq I like, he can bowl, bat and field well and looks to be very competitive. I would seriously consider him as a replacement for Patel as the spin-bowling all rounder in the one day team
In the short -term you can't look past Panesar and Tredwell. Root could bowl some overs but I don't see him as an attacking option in New Zealand
Not surprised that England went with Broad the golden boy, let's hope he can bowl himself into some form for the year ahead
As Manormaniac mentions why does no one talk about Alex Hales for the Test (or even just ODI) side?
I think it's quite simply that there is no spot for him in the Test team. Compton is getting his deserved chance, Root looks like he will be in the team forever, Bairstow is waiting for his next go, Taylor has had a game or two and is still in the selectors plans . . . . . .
Would like to see Hales given a go in the ODI side although I'm not entirely sure how you would get him into that either. He has that dreamy combination of power and timing, very good to watch
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They should be thinking about trott and kp retiring in the next few years so need replacements ready to go. Yeah they COULD play till they are 39 but chances are its 34/35 ish. So we need the replacement grooming for them now. Prior is no spring chicken either so we need his replacement thinking about etc etc
That's where I see it going wrong for England in the next few years, as the current guys form starts to drop do we have the talent to replace them ready to go or will we need a 'rebuilding' phase.
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You rate Rafiq as a batsman but not Rashid? Thats an interesting viewpoint - Rashid has a much higher first class average and bats much higher in the order, whereas Rafiq, for all his many talents, does tend to be a slap it merchant!
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Yet they haven't given them to him in ODIs, which is odd. I wonder if they might go elsewhere and keep Bluey as a batsman based on that, his superb outfielding and the fact that he is not a great keeper to begin with.
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They should be thinking about trott and kp retiring in the next few years so need replacements ready to go. Yeah they COULD play till they are 39 but chances are its 34/35 ish. So we need the replacement grooming for them now. Prior is no spring chicken either so we need his replacement thinking about etc
So how do you suggest England 'groom' him further than they already are by involving him in the lions set-up and the t20 side? I don't think there is much more they can do to help him really
You rate Rafiq as a batsman but not Rashid? Thats an interesting viewpoint - Rashid has a much higher first class average and bats much higher in the order, whereas Rafiq, for all his many talents, does tend to be a slap it merchant!
I didnt say that. I rate him as a better all-round cricketer than Rashid and more importantly he seems to be mentally stronger.
Haven't seen much of Kerrigan so can't really comment on his potential
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didnt say that. I rate him as a better all-round cricketer than Rashid and more importantly he seems to be mentally stronger.
Haven't seen much of Kerrigan so can't really comment on his potential
Possibly so on the mental side - though Rashid did pretty well in the Big Bash for two seasons and under pressure for England in ODI cricket, so he can't be a complete muppet. Just reckon with Rafiq that he is very much an out and out bowler, whereas Rashid is a three dimensional cricketer.
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I wonder who else could take the gloves?
Prior is only 31 so could have a good 5 years left at the top.
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Prior is only 31 so could have a good 5 years left at the top.
At least
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And there are numerous potential candidates - Buttler, Foakes, Davies, Brown, Kieswetter
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Kerrigan is the best spinner in England bar the 3 involved at the moment. A first class average of 28 with over 100 wickets is very impressive compared to the Aussie counterparts.
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Possibly so on the mental side - though Rashid did pretty well in the Big Bash for two seasons and under pressure for England in ODI cricket, so he can't be a complete muppet. Just reckon with Rafiq that he is very much an out and out bowler, whereas Rashid is a three dimensional cricketer.
Having a good Big Bash doesn't equate to being worthy of a Test spot for England surely? First class wickets should. I have nothing against Rashid, he is obviously talented and I would love to see a leg-spinner playing for England in a Test match but I just don't see it happening in the foreseeable future.
The ODI side is his best bet same as Rafiq and they will probably be competing for the same spot in the future
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Having a good Big Bash doesn't equate to being worthy of a Test spot for England surely? First class wickets should. I have nothing against Rashid, he is obviously talented and I would love to see a leg-spinner playing for England in a Test match but I just don't see it happening in the foreseeable future.
No, but if you've levelled the suggestion that he is mentally weak I think it is an environment in which to perform which would reasonably countter the allegation
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I think Rafiq is ahead of Rashid. I think Yorkshire dropped Rashid at the end of last season as they'd got exasperated at his lack of performances. Rafiq also finished the season against Derby with two battling half centuries and has been identified as having the leadership qualities needed, having led York in their T20 campaign. A definite contender for a spot in the T20 / ODI sides.
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No, but if you've levelled the suggestion that he is mentally weak I think it is an environment in which to perform which would reasonably countter the allegation
I think what I actually 'levelled' was that Rafiq was mentally stronger
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lets get dockrell qualified for england and stick him in! probably slightly better in the batting stakes than monty. in all seriousness. Swann will be back. Monty and or tredwell will do a decent job in the meantime and the likes of briggs kerrigan etc etc will hopefully develop in the lions squads. hopefully develop alot!
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Are there any Kiwi members around that know what the chances of some cricket tonight are?
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Are there any Kiwi members around that know what the chances of some cricket tonight are?
Weather.com suggests overcast but no rain, so potential.
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Are there any Kiwi members around that know what the chances of some cricket tonight are?
I'm in Christchurch but apparently play will start on time.
Shame we can't sub in Jamie How, scored 222 yesterday in a 50 over game, 2nd highest ever one day score, not a bad knock I say.
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He scored a shed load of runs in club cricket over here in the summer just gone.
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Compdog gone for 0
Very poor defence from him as well :( First of six nails in his international career maybe??
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Weather.com suggests overcast but no rain, so potential.
There'll be quite a bit, just not a lot for Compton though.
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Compdog gone for 0
Very poor defence from him as well :( First of six nails in his international career maybe??
Nice knowing you Nick, Oh hello Joe!
If Root gets runs down the order here compton might only have 3 more innings to save his test career.
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Stop it... stop it now lol. He will be offered the same priviledge as every-one else, and given a little bit of time to bed in. 4 tests in India, and a failure in the first test on a swinging green seamer does not a bad player make!
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Anyone else finding watching this test match useless. I can't see the ball for the colour of the wicket
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He wont get that many.They need to bed Root in for the Ashes.No room for sentiment in Test Cricket. Compton is a County machine but it stops there.. Hick, Ramps etc. A ceiling is reached, its just nowadays they move on much quicker
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And Root did what..... 70 in one game against an already beaten Indian team. Nothing says that Root is any better!
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Just to clarify I'd rather see Compton opening and Root at 6 but I fear with the Media butting their noses in etc that if Root continues to score runs and Compton doesn't get at least a couple of 50's and convert one of these into a ton in this 3 match test series I see him being replaced. Not that I agree with it. 3 tests in crappy India and 3 in NZ is not enough time to really assess him in my opinion. Still not convinced moving Root up thje order is the best idea so early in his career, leave him at 6 to score loads and then take the mantle of opening when he's really bedded in.
Hopefully Compton will score a nice breezy 50+ in the second innings :)
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And Root did what..... 70 in one game against an already beaten Indian team. Nothing says that Root is any better!
This is exactly why I would not like to see Root moved from 6. A few bad innings doesn't make a bad batsmen.. So a few good innings shouldn't either. Leave him at 6 for 10-20 tests then move him up. Then bed Ginger ninja in.
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If people haven't already noticed, the management don't bow to media pressure. And seldom do they make a mistake!
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Everything says he's better.A solid system of measuring every twitch in hundreds of sessions at Lough borough. Its not an accident or luck that he was picked against India even though his stats revealed nothing stunning.
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Everything says he's better.A solid system of measuring every twitch in hundreds of sessions at Lough borough. Its not an accident or luck that he was picked against India even though his stats revealed nothing stunning.
Then not everything suggests he's better lol. Ridiculous argument! The fact that Compton scored more runs at a better average also suggests slightly different!
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Everything says he's better.A solid system of measuring every twitch in hundreds of sessions at Lough borough. Its not an accident or luck that he was picked against India even though his stats revealed nothing stunning.
so if they measure everything from some stats analyst then I've worked out why Broad keeps getting a gig!!! His sister IS one of these analysts!! She's messing with the results to make him out to be Flintoff :)
(purely said in jest Miss Broad :) )
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he only plays because she's the an analyst
and she's only an the analyst because she's Broads sister, all about who you know ;)
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he only plays because she's the an analyst
and she's only an the analyst because she's Broads sister, all about who you know ;)
I did wonder when I first heard she was Broads sister if she did get there purely because of her dad/Stuart (or at least got the break). Bit harsh but like you say, most of the time it's who you know not what.
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Media, please stop talking about a lack of run rates!! It's early in a 4 day game for god's sake.. We've got KP, Root and Prior to come who tbh aren't the slowest scorers around so who cares if these bat for 3/4's of the day for 140 runs.. Bowlers will be tired, ball will be old just in time for KP to come in and unleash (hopefully).. Leave Trott and Cook alone.
Oh look, trying to 'up the rate' has lost us capt cook!!!!!
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oh dear :(
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OH CRAP, no one's got a century so Bell will be gone soon too!! Get those pads on Rooty and Matty P!!! You're gonna be needed before lunch (well Root will!)
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ermmmmmmmm
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Compton never going to be a test player. 1 good first class season in 10 years. Get someone young in to open like root now so that he can get some games as an opener under his belt before the ashes.
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Bob Willis is a boring git, and writing England off already, great...
Yeah it's not that bad yet. If we are struggling then NZ will be toast.. What am I saying, this game is made for them to take a 'shock' lead in the series.. haha
Still, we'll see what Mr Bell has in the locker now. I don't believe he'll score more than 30 but hope he scores 100+.
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I'm blaming Nick Knight for everything
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I'm blaming Nick Knight for everything
??? What did he do?
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Bob Willis is on a roll, nobody puts you down like Bob can!
This pitch colour is ridiculous, what a farce.
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Monty will save us :)
I think a monty 50 is on the cars with a 50 from Jimmy too :)
Meh, tbh this is a good test now for our middle order which has got to be a good thing. Trott needs to bat, bat, bat.. bat some more, bat.. think about batting.. bat some more etc. I'm more interested in watching Bell!
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I despise Bob Willis, he talks utter rubbish all the time and is so miserable, I dont understand why Sky still employ him to talk such crap
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I despise Bob Willis, he talks utter rubbish all the time and is so miserable, I dont understand why Sky still employ him to talk such crap
I'd pay to listen to Boycott after that start :)
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Ive got great memories of Willis steaming in off that long run up, eyes like pissholes in the snow.
Scathing as he is SKY love his controversial comments and demeanour.
I can see him loosening up after a few sherberts ;)
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Nick Knight is as smarmy as they come, doesnt offer much insight.
Athers and Hussein are my favourites together with Bumble who seems to have calmed down since Bertie passed on.
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Can't knock Nasser.. Who else would get abused all day and keep coming back! Plus, he helped shape the England set up we know now.
Athers, Nasser, Beefy, Holding, Warne and Bumble are my favourites.
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I actually like bob willis on sky! Surely he must be being ironic most of the time!
An old enough to remember headingley 81
Back in his day...he was pn the quick side of rapid :)
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Boycott having a massive rant about the fact we only had one warm up whilst they spent the rest of the time dicking about playing golf. I don't like him, but has a point.
Knight shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a microphone, he's not popular in the dressing room either by all accounts.
Well up for Trott smacking them about today
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Boycott having a massive rant about the fact we only had one warm up whilst they spent the rest of the time dicking about playing golf. I don't like him, but has a point.
Knight shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a microphone, he's not popular in the dressing room either by all accounts.
Well up for Trott smacking them about today
I like Boycott, he speaks his mind etc. I completely agree with him over warm ups. Some of our players won't have played a innings for ages so need loads of time at the crease to hit top form. Bit like some of our clubs going right into the league season with none or the odd one warm up game and expecting people to play well. It's more luck than anything if you're going into a league game having spent <10 overs at the crease!
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Boycs is almost always right-just not particularly popular...
Sky have nasser(big respect),athers(him too) willis,botham,gower-these guys have the credentials.knight is the odd man out.
I think Butch is good too,very honest and has a smile on his face
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well not the best start. Lets hope Bell will but his doubters to rest.
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well not the best start. Lets hope Bell will but his doubters to rest.
Hope so. He's looking good so far.
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Hope so. He's looking good so far.
Nice one
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What a (No Swearing Please) stupid way to get out. Bottle job Bell at it again
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The bowler and bowling coach were discussing Bell earlier and with McCullum there it was a complete set up. I didn't want to be right about Mr Bell though :(
Maybe he should be given this series to prove himself too !
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That's one way of putting it, I was at least trying not to make my dislike for him too obvious when I posted :-[
I like him, his technique and every at the crease I just can't understand why he plays some of these shots!
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I like him, his technique and every at the crease I just can't understand why he plays some of these shots!
We in this country have a fascination with technique.. As soon as someone (at whatever level) 'looks' the part they are lauded as awesome batsmen. No matter what.
Bell does look immense when batting and some of hte shots he plays look stunning. His problem is his mental side, he just doesn't seem able to consistently cope with that side of the game, which is a shame as it's such a waste of talent.
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Let us suppose for one minute that he scores a century in the second innings. Should we still drop him?
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Let us suppose for one minute that he scores a century in the second innings. Should we still drop him?
I think Bell must know when the pressures really on regarding his place in the side, the goes and scores a ton.
I don't think anyone is doubting the fact he is a very good batsmen. I don't dislike him, I just wish he'd use his talent to more effect
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Frankly, on today's showing, you could say the same of all the batsmen so far, maybe excepting trott...
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This is just shambolic
Even Jo Root has just looked average, hope this tail wags a bit!
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God help the kiwi's on this pitch against Jimmy and Finn...
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Lets remember what happened in India, have faith we'll lose the first test then stuff them.
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Is it me, or has Wagner got £4.99 sports world trousers on?
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Really regretting placing that bet on England being unbeaten in all test matches in 2013 :(
Great odds but they say the bookmaker is the only winner lol
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England not looking like world beaters now!
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I don't doubt Bell's talent either. I think he's potentially one of our top batsmen. He just doesn't seem to have it between the ears which means although he's still 'good' he's never going to be really good.
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England not looking like world beaters now!
I'm going to give them a break for this test purely because most of them have played so little cricket. Shouldn't be that way but it is so poor sods probably haven't batted (as in out in a game situation) for a few weeks.
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Let us suppose for one minute that he scores a century in the second innings. Should we still drop him?
Lets be honest Bairstow is not a better player than Ian Bell. Ian bell is arguably after Cook England's best batsman in terms of technique and that is why he has played 70 odd tests and averages over 40. He has not been out of form since Pakistain in the UAE and even the Ajmal as made many good batsmen look silly recently.
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Its nice to be a Kiwi on days like this, its not often we get something to smile about... But I can assure you, most Kiwis wont be getting ahead of themselves, we are now very worried about having to bat on this pitch vs Anderson & Finn!
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The English innings was awful! This is the lowest first innings by Eng vs NZ. On a pitch that is pretty benign and against a bowling attack that granted bowled well but certainly wasn't life threatening the English just did not turn up. Some of the shots that they got out to we're shots of batsman that mentally were somewhere else, Petersen basically didn't even play a shot.
Now our new openers are showing the right temperament that I thought we lacked.......long way to go yet.....
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What's up with Petersen, he has just dropped Rutherford, well technically it's not a drop as it hit him in the hip, that's the second ball today he hasn't seen
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I don't think I've seen England turn up so badly since the 46 v Windies. Maybe that's what not really playing cricket since the ODI series does for you...
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So.. Why is the team so poor this time? Is it a 'one off' (although I think we've lost every first test for a while!) or is it more symptomatic that unless one or two 'stars' fire we struggle??
Compton has to be under pressure, Root is probably feeling the weight of expectation too and then you have Broad and Bell. It'll be interesting to see whats happened come the end of the series.
all out for 167 and then NZ on 100+-0.... Very very poor.
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Amazing how many people are acting like its the a huge catastrophe, we played a few bad shots and had a bad day at the office. Doesn't change much we will still be overwhelming favourites for the series. Lets not forget what happened to Australia with a far better line up than they currently have.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-new-zealand-2011/engine/match/518948.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-new-zealand-2011/engine/match/518948.html)
Believe in your team!!
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Did the great ussie team lose all their first matches of a series for god knows how long ? Doubt it. I still expect England to win as one bad day doesn't change it but as I want my cou try to be the best I don't want to see them play such rubbish.
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I think that was the last match of the series, once it was already won...
England today, on the basis of the highlights, were undercooked and, in a couple of cases, disinterested. Not a good look...
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Oh no England lost a test match quick better drop everyone... Serious?
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Oh no England lost a test match quick better drop everyone... Serious?
I think if you stop, listen (well read)! You will see people were already talking about the very same thing before this series. Did anyone want it to happen? No, we'd e happy with them all scoring runs and taking wickets but life isn't like that. Players can look the part and just not be good enough. Same as ugly people who people write off can come up trumps through natural skill and mental powers. Cook isn't as perfect as bell say, BUT... One scores more runs than the other etc
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We got put in on a seaming swinger with damp air on an overcast morning and not enough batting practice. It's not the end of the bloody world. Yes there were some brain melts out there, but it's not the crisis everyone is making out.
Weather for the next few days is supposed to be good, draw on the cards and onto the next match. Give Compdog a chance, Bell won't be dropped because they just won't do it, regardless of his 'mental capacity' issues.
Christ, it was a bad day at the office, that's all! I remember once when I made too many copies of a contract at work and wasted some paper (my boss hates that, into her green planet stuff). I wasn't sacked and replaced by the work experience girl, the one who eats all the hobnobs and moans she's put on weight. Bloody media getting their claws in again.
I love a challenge anyway...bring on tonight :)
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We got put in on a seaming swinger with damp air on an overcast morning and not enough batting practice. It's not the end of the bloody world. Yes there were some brain melts out there, but it's not the crisis everyone is making out.
Weather for the next few days is supposed to be good, draw on the cards and onto the next match. Give Compdog a chance, Bell won't be dropped because they just won't do it, regardless of his 'mental capacity' issues.
Christ, it was a bad day at the office, that's all! I remember once when I made too many copies of a contract at work and wasted some paper (my boss hates that, into her green planet stuff). I wasn't sacked and replaced by the work experience girl, the one who eats all the hobnobs and moans she's put on weight. Bloody media getting their claws in again.
I love a challenge anyway...bring on tonight :)
I agree, while it was a shocking performance, it's just one day! There's a lot of cricket to be played and this may serve as a kick up the butt which the team needs if they think they can just turn up and roll over sides.
England are a tempting 12/1 to win this Test now, remember this is a similar New Zealand side who only recently got skittled out for 47. One for those risk seekers there...
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I think if you stop, listen (well read)! You will see people were already talking about the very same thing before this series. Did anyone want it to happen? No, we'd e happy with them all scoring runs and taking wickets but life isn't like that. Players can look the part and just not be good enough. Same as ugly people who people write off can come up trumps through natural skill and mental powers. Cook isn't as perfect as bell say, BUT... One scores more runs than the other etc
Bell averages 46 from 83 tests with 17 centuries and 34 fifties.. I know I wouldn't be dropping him. Finding form and scoring big can be only a game away
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It's not just about past glories its about the now and future. Stats are great but they are not the whole picture and only indicate the past, not the now or future. Just look at shewag
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It's not just about past glories its about the now and future. Stats are great but they are not the whole picture and only indicate the past, not the now or future. Just look at shewag
Don't even know why you would compare him to Sehwag.. Not Evan similar style of players... A slogger with a good eye v's A class batsman.. Bell is 31 with his best years to come. No on second thoughts yeah drop Bell ;) :D
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Don't even know why you would compare him to Sehwag.. Not Evan similar style of players... A slogger with a good eye v's A class batsman.. Bell is 31 with his best years to come. No on second thoughts yeah drop Bell ;) :D
Different players yes but if we just throw stats around then shewag is better and still is (even though he's been dropped). I think again if you listen a fair few question bells selection, not on how pretty he looks but on mental side. It's as much mental as it is anything else.
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A fair few also believed him to be the best batsman in the world not so long ago.. The same few wanted him dumped as soon as he/England failed.
Everyone has there own opinion... My opinion is that I wouldn't drop him.
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We'll agree to disagree rather than block a thread up.
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Bell is always the scapegoat when something goes wrong for England. Clarke has been rightly lauded for averaging over 100 in 2012 but hardly anyone gave Bell anywhere near the same amount of praise when he averaged over 100 in 2011.
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Bell is always the scapegoat when something goes wrong for England. Clarke has been rightly lauded for averaging over 100 in 2012 but hardly anyone gave Bell anywhere near the same amount of praise when he averaged over 100 in 2011.
I think people will be bored of the bell discussions now. Best off leaving it.
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I think people will be bored of the bell discussions now. Best off leaving it.
Be the bigger man and walk away
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England 10/1 to win the test from here, tempter.
I've also taken England to win @ 11/2 on a 'draw no bet' stake.
Here's hoping...
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Got to say, huge fan of test matches being played at venues like this. The Army sound like 30 lads belting out Jerusalem in a car park. Got the surround sound, and could swear I heard a bloke just stub his fag out :)
Proper cricket viewing, in a stunning country, with your mates whilst having a beer at 10am.
Probably the best spectator sport in the world in an environment like that...
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Got to say, huge fan of test matches being played at venues like this. The Army sound like 30 lads belting out Jerusalem in a car park. Got the surround sound, and could swear I heard a bloke just stub his fag out :)
Proper cricket viewing, in a stunning country, with your mates whilst having a beer at 10am.
Probably the best spectator sport in the world in an environment like that...
agreed. I like seeing games played in these sorts of grounds rather than 80k seaters etc.
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Remember reading Freddie's book and he commented on the fact he never enjoyed the MCG when he was skipper in that series we all pretend never happened.
20k is big enough for a cricket match, you get the feeling the little nuances of cricket are lost in the big grounds.
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England 10/1 to win the test from here, tempter.
I've also taken England to win @ 11/2 on a 'draw no bet' stake.
Here's hoping...
Looking at this track it looks to have gone very flat today and there is no swing or seam movement for either of the bowlers. Could be possible for England to bat the best part of 2 days. New Zealand I doubt will bat any longer than all day today if they last that long.
Can't see an England win but the draw I think is still a good possibility.
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Remember reading Freddie's book and he commented on the fact he never enjoyed the MCG when he was skipper in that series we all pretend never happened.
20k is big enough for a cricket match, you get the feeling the little nuances of cricket are lost in the big grounds.
I don't remember Freddie captaining at the MCG??
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06/07
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I don't remember Freddie captaining at the MCG??
That's the spirit mate. He never did, the Daily Mail made it all up. The Ashes was cancelled that year
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06/07
Lies
Didn't happen
nananananana... Can't hear you
:)
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Finally a wicket ;)
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Top work from MP and Jimmy.
Skittled for 50 before lunch and Compo to get a double ton.
I'm never wrong (according to the missus)
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2 metre Peter gone
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Quality knock from Rutherford, nice to see a good young player from the Southern Hemisphere at last. Not seen one for a while.
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Yep, cracking knock fella. Keep doing that (or even half that!) game in game out and NZ have a little Gem.
Felt for the other guy as well getting out but he just didn't get forward and paid the price. Looking comfy for NZ though and Williamson isn't shabby :(
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Monty :)
Shame he can't just slow his bowling down though!
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He knows what he's doing.
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He knows what he's doing.
I'm sure he does.
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Got to say, huge fan of test matches being played at venues like this. The Army sound like 30 lads belting out Jerusalem in a car park. Got the surround sound, and could swear I heard a bloke just stub his fag out :)
Proper cricket viewing, in a stunning country, with your mates whilst having a beer at 10am.
Probably the best spectator sport in the world in an environment like that...
In NZ we had a policy of playing our test cricket at the smaller "boutique" grounds, Dunedin, Napier & proper cricket grounds, Hamilton & the Basin Reserve. Its too bad NZ Cricket has decided to go against that policy & host a test @ Eden Park this summer, what a shocker of a cricket ground that is.
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I suspect Taylor's GM isn't a GM. The toe is too round
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I suspect Taylor's GM isn't a GM. The toe is too round
I think I noticed there wasn't any stickers on the top of the shoulder either before lunch. May be because I'm tired though
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Well he hasn't got stickers on the back of the edges so could be an old bat
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Is there anyone out there who thinks Stuart Broad should be in the England test side? Or any England side for that matter?
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Is there anyone out there who thinks Stuart Broad should be in the England test side? Or any England side for that matter?
Andy Flower
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Andy Flower
well I guess that's the only one who counts. I just can't see it and haven't seen it for a few years now.
I also don't like the aggressive route the England bowlers went down last night. It just doesn't suit Anderson and Finn. Made them look a little silly I think.
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I thought Anderson came off looking foolish when he was shouting in the face of Taylor (I think). The Kiwis already had over 300 on the board so, apart from the pressure release of taking a key wicket, there really was no need for it.
I thought Broad bowled OK. 2 wickets in a decent spell (OK, it was only Southee and whatsisface) but it was far better than his production in India. His speed was up and he was putting it in the right places more often than not. I dare say that Onions would have done equally as well, but that is one long tail if you have Finn, Anderson, Onions and Monty.
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I thought Anderson came off looking foolish when he was shouting in the face of Taylor (I think). The Kiwis already had over 300 on the board so, apart from the pressure release of taking a key wicket, there really was no need for it.
I thought Broad bowled OK. 2 wickets in a decent spell (OK, it was only Southee and whatsisface) but it was far better than his production in India. His speed was up and he was putting it in the right places more often than not. I dare say that Onions would have done equally as well, but that is one long tail if you have Finn, Anderson, Onions and Monty.
You can't doubt Monty!! He's awesome. I'll let him off his batting just because he tries so darn hard and cares! (unlike pretty boy Broad)
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You can't doubt Monty!! He's awesome. I'll let him off his batting just because he tries so darn hard and cares! (unlike pretty boy Broad)
Love Monty. Hate Broad.
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Unfortunately I think Onions bowled himself out of a chance of a Test match or 2 over here in the warm-up match. I reckon Woakes will get the nod now if England want another seamer
Is play starting at 9 tonight again does anyone know?
'Hate' is a bit harsh, he's not a child molester, just a very frustrating cricket player
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2100 yes mate. 30 mins early again. It's nice it starting while it's not the wee hours of the morning :)
Yeah I don't 'hate' Broad.. Can't hate someone I don't know. I do just dislike his perceived attitude and would rather the players playing for England were the guys in form and not walking ego's. Still, would KP have ever played in that case.. probably not.
Come on NZ.. Declare.. get the lads in and lets see if we can save the game! I'd also venture that Onions has moved down the pecking order so barring some terrible injuries etc I'd say he's played his last game for England. In the format that matters anyway.
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Unfortunately I think Onions bowled himself out of a chance of a Test match or 2 over here in the warm-up match. I reckon Woakes will get the nod now if England want another seamer
Is play starting at 9 tonight again does anyone know?
'Hate' is a bit harsh, he's not a child molester, just a very frustrating cricket player
Yes it starts at 9. And I don't actually "love" Monty either. It was just a figure of speech mate.
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Yes it starts at 9. And I don't actually "love" Monty either. It was just a figure of speech mate.
Not sure. That is a very sexy beard.
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Does anyone else fancy us to rescue a draw?
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Does anyone else fancy us to rescue a draw?
I do. Can't see England batting anywhere near as bad again. Reckon NZ will try to have have 5 sessions at England. We should be able to bat for 5 sessions on that pitch.
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Yeah get the first session in at least and possibly up till tea as its not a school night and I've got a few ciders in the fridge!
Agree with that, he has had a longer run that most. Probably because the selectors know what he CAN do as he has shown himself capable of world class performances with the ball and even potentially the bat. Consistency is a major issue
Personally I think Stuart Broad is a much better bowler when he bowls on a length where the ball will hit the top of the stumps, like the ball that got Watling. This was the length that dismantled the Aussies in 09. All this back of a length, bang-it-in stuff seems quite desperate and brainless but thats what he seems to serve up more often than not nowadays
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Draw is slight favourite at the moment. We'll need a couple of momentous innings from the top order (double century opening stand please) but definitely within their capabilities.
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Yes it starts at 9. And I don't actually "love" Monty either. It was just a figure of speech mate.
Quite distasteful I thought but each to their own if that's the only way you can express yourself
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NZ win is the favorite result in my eyes
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Draw is slight favourite at the moment. We'll need a couple of momentous innings from the top order (double century opening stand please) but definitely within their capabilities.
Hmm. Reckon Compton will do well to get past 50. The rest will be ok, different mind set this time. Reckon they came out the first morning thinking they could score 400+ in a day and a bit against NZ and it all went wrong. The mind set of batting 5 sessions to save a game will see them through I think.
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New Zealand win is favourite. Draw second. Think we should be able to bat out a draw. Not sure theyll be confident enough to declare when they should. Not like theyre south africa or anything. We cant be anywhere near as bad as first innings. Got a few points to prove with the bat too (KP in particular)
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Does anyone else fancy us to rescue a draw?
I think it's down to what NZ do now.. If they bat too long then yes, however if they declare now we have too long to survive and they can come in and play a ODI/T20 innings to win.
and I agree with you Alba, Broad when he pitches it up etc is a much better bowler than when he does this back of a length or short crap. He's just not quick enough for that to be effective.
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I can see Mc Cullum having a thrash and putting England in rapido when he is out. There will be serious nerves in the England camp but enough experience to see through a batting collapse. Im not convinced that the Kiwis know how to win as they are rarely in this position. Looks like the first session will be a very interesting one. Id like to see the Kiwis win this one as it will be great for cricket and they certainly have been the better team so far.
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Quite distasteful I thought but each to their own if that's the only way you can express yourself
Hey calm down. How often do you hear pundits saying "I love his technique" "I love how he approaches an innings" "I love his attitude". They don't actually "love" it, it's just a figure of speech and hate is the opposite of love.
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New Zealand win is favourite. Draw second. Think we should be able to bat out a draw. Not sure theyll be confident enough to declare when they should. Not like theyre south africa or anything. We cant be anywhere near as bad as first innings. Got a few points to prove with the bat too (KP in particular)
Courtesy of oddschecker (best prices)
NZ Evens
Draw 19/20
England 40/1
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I think McCullum will decide the match. If he gets a load more runs fairly quickly and then declares NZ stand a very good chance (although id hope our batsmen could survive anyway). Should be an interesting day (night's) cricket
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New Zealand win is favourite. Draw second. Think we should be able to bat out a draw. Not sure theyll be confident enough to declare when they should. Not like theyre south africa or anything. We cant be anywhere near as bad as first innings. Got a few points to prove with the bat too (KP in particular)
Early declaration or not be wary of NZ. They have already been written off, all the talk was of England 3-0. NZ are a team playing with absolutely nothing to lose and the freedom that comes with that
If Cook and Trott go early England are in all sorts of bother because I don't fancy KP and Bell in a backs to the wall job and Compton and Root are still playing to secure their places which brings its own pressure
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Hey calm down. How often do you hear pundits saying "I love his technique" "I love how he approaches an innings" "I love his attitude". They don't actually "love" it, it's just a figure of speech and hate is the opposite of love.
I am quite calm, I've just eaten some cheesecake whilst watching Gardeners World
I've never once heard any commentator or pundit use the word 'hate'. Just thought it was unnecessary term to use about a cricket player especially one who is representing England
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If Cook and Trott go early England are in all sorts of bother because I don't fancy KP and Bell in a backs to the wall job and Compton and Root are still playing to secure their places which brings its own pressure
I agree with nearly all that too buddy. Cook and Trott are our key men. KP is an enigma, one day he'll win you a game and the next do nothing so can't be relied on. Bell can't/won't play that type of rescue/key innings and root etc can't be expected to just yet.
Nope, for me it's all on Cook and Trott to bat long.. verrrrrrrrryyyyyy Loooooonnnnnggg
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I am quite calm, I've just eaten some cheesecake whilst watching Gardeners World
I've never once heard any commentator or pundit use the word 'hate'. Just thought it was unnecessary term to use about a cricket player especially one who is representing England
What sort of cheesecake?
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I am quite calm, I've just eaten some cheesecake whilst watching Gardeners World
Not sure you can get calmer than that! maybe a hot water bottle?
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Passion fruit and mango from a certain supermarkets extra special range. Bit of a let down if I'm honest, exactly the same biscuit base and cream cheese as the 99p ones from the freezer just with a different topping
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Passion fruit and mango from a certain supermarkets extra special range. Bit of a let down if I'm honest, exactly the same biscuit base and cream cheese as the 99p ones from the freezer just with a different topping
I hate it when that happens. Fancy flavours though. Look, you thought my use of the term "hate" was unnessasary. I thought your aspersions about my intellect and ability to express myself was unnessasary. Shall we call it quits?
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sod declaring.. McCullam keep batting like this.. It's fun to watch! Rub Broads nose in it!
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I hate it when that happens. Fancy flavours though. Look, you thought my use of the term "hate" was unnessasary. I thought your aspersions about my intellect and ability to express myself was unnessasary. Shall we call it quits?
I was lured in by the pretty colours on the box
Of course. I'm sure you didn't mean it like it sounded, lots of people don't want Broad in the side so you're not alone there
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Superb Tons from Cook and Compton and they were really grinded out especially Compton. A similar day tomorrow and the test match will be saved!!
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We all still calling for Compton's head this morning! I would imagine there will be a few smug somerset fans, selectors and coaching staff who will be able to say I told you so tis morning! Me being one of them
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Fair play to Compton he has done what he had to do.
Personally I still don't think he is the man to open for England. The Somerset coaches obviously don't think he's an opener as he does not open for them and remember this is NZ who have probably the worse bowling attack in world cricket at the moment.
Still, he has done all he can do and that is score runs.
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I have to agree, I don't think he deserved to be dropped, but that doesn't make him the right person. I am delighted for him that he scored runs today, but would love to see a slightly more aggressive player with Cook up front.
my belief is that the openers need to be able bat time, but on occasion take the game away from the opposition, in a way that Tresco did.
On the plus side it gives Joe root time to learn about his game and test cricket a bit more before he has even more pressure.
we had a better day today, but we still need to bat at least 2 sessions tomorrow/tonight. the game isn't safe.
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The game isn't safe!! Look what happened on day 2 ( or day 1 if you discount the washed out first day!) The fat lady will not even start to warm up her voice until tea tomorrow!!
And Compton has done superbly well. But once Root has learnt the International game then Compton and Root could always swap round ;) But who knows what will happen!
JB will just have to be patient!!
If England do somehow muster a draw from this Test, it'll be known as 'The Great Escape'!!
But that's still a big IF!!
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I think Compton should open. Keep root at 6 so he can learn the Aussie bowlers when they have a soft ball before the return ashes.
Compton has shown he has the mental aspect to his game, he batted well in India. His only fault was not converting 50s into tons (something cook has a 100% rate of doing so as captain). Yes he got a dck first innings, but nobody from the top 6 batted well and he seems to be the frustration release point.
I'm a fan of broad, because I grew up following him, he played in local leagues. This makes it so frustrating to see him think he is the completed article. He needs to be told go back to notts and prove your ability with bat and ball, try buck his ideas up.
When Broad was 18ish he went to play 6 months cricket down under. He went there as an opening batsman, grew tall and came back an opening bowler. So he clearly has batting ability and mentality. It's like he has the mind set "I shouldn't be required to bat well so I can just have a swing and then I get to bowl sooner"
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Lucky for us the first day was rained off!
Cook is a machine and well done to Compton. NZ may not have a brilliant bowling attack but neither have Australia. You've still got to score the runs, and it was a difficult situation too. A long way behind the game and on a pair so good character shown I feel
Any other Grandfather/Grandson pairs that have made Test hundreds? Bet Nick won't be getting a game for Arsenal though, although we could do with a centre half . . . . . .
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Well played Cook and Compton. That's him safe now for the ashes unless he playes badly again. Still, now there has been a ton scored we all know who will now score a ton to save his bacon once again...... Bell
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I think your all assuming something that may never happen.
Root is decent but he too is no world beater himself the hype around him by this forum and everywhere is amazing what has he done at this level. I'am not saying he can't or won't I just saying he is not the world class player so many of you are painting yet.
I saw a touch of Trott in Compton and if Compton was 21 you would all be saying something different, and although he might not be long term the lad is averaging 40 at test level not a bad start considering where his tests have been played.
As my coach said possession is 9 tenths of the law and a 100 is a 100 no matter what attack.
As for Bell his quality is there to see I rate him always have.
Well done Compton the pressure people,put on him and he came through it
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We all still calling for Compton's head this morning! I would imagine there will be a few smug somerset fans, selectors and coaching staff who will be able to say I told you so tis morning! Me being one of them
Bell's head (Bell's end?) primarily. Compton....did okay. I mean, he scored a ton on a flat deck against a fairly weak attack, but the saying "look in the book" exists for a reason.
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There will be a few smug selecters/somerset fans, but do they deep down think that Compton is the opening batsman for the ashes? No dobt he's a good player, but not at the top of the order for me.
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I think your all assuming something that may never happen.
Root is decent but he too is no world beater himself the hype around him by this forum and everywhere is amazing what has he done at this level. I'am not saying he can't or won't I just saying he is not the world class player so many of you are painting yet.
I saw a touch of Trott in Compton and if Compton was 21 you would all be saying something different, and although he might not be long term the lad is averaging 40 at test level not a bad start considering where his tests have been played.
As my coach said possession is 9 tenths of the law and a 100 is a 100 no matter what attack.
As for Bell his quality is there to see I rate him always have.
Well done Compton the pressured people,put on him and he came through it
Well said
And just a comment on the theory that Compton isn't long term - he is a year younger than Michael Hussey was when he made his Test debut for Australia
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Well played Cook and Compton. That's him safe now for the ashes unless he playes badly again. Still, now there has been a ton scored we all know who will now score a ton to save his bacon once again...... Bell
Of English batsman who have scored 2000 runs Bell has the 14th best average and only 11 Englishmen have scored more test hundreds than him. With stats like those I can see why you want him dropped ???
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Well said
And just a comment on the theory that Compton isn't long term - he is a year younger than Michael Hussey was when he made his Test debut for Australia
This
I think your all assuming something that may never happen.
Root is decent but he too is no world beater himself the hype around him by this forum and everywhere is amazing what has he done at this level. I'am not saying he can't or won't I just saying he is not the world class player so many of you are painting yet.
I saw a touch of Trott in Compton and if Compton was 21 you would all be saying something different, and although he might not be long term the lad is averaging 40 at test level not a bad start considering where his tests have been played.
As my coach said possession is 9 tenths of the law and a 100 is a 100 no matter what attack.
As for Bell his quality is there to see I rate him always have.
Well done Compton the pressure people,put on him and he came through it
And this, I can't believe the hype being built up around Root. How can people say he's a better player than Compton? Compton has played 10 innings so far and is averaging 61.6 so far (by my calculations)? Root has played 3 innings and is averaging 42? Not opening the innings, not opening the innings in India, and yes he played well, but are people forgetting that actually Compton played well in India as well, although the scores might not have proved it, he formed a valuable partnership with Cook at the top of the order. Now I'm not saying Root couldn't have done it, but he didn't and there's no guarantees either. Give the guy a break, Hussey was one of the best players in the australia team that he played in and he didn't make his debut til he was 30. He deserves the success he's got. He's worked bloody hard, and top run scorer in the championship accounts for something!
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Of English batsman who have scored 2000 runs Bell has the 14th best average and only 11 Englishmen have scored more test hundreds than him. With stats like those I can see why you want him dropped ???
thats the problem with batting at 5
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I've always said that Bell has fantastic technique.
His application a few years ago meant that he got a start, then got out with a stupid shot.
But I think that his improvement in the last couple of years has earned him his place!
The only question in my mind is whether Root and Compton can settle in well, and if Broad will start to get his batting back on track!
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I'm giving up discussing Bell. No one questions how good he looks or that he has great technique. The questions are around his mental toughness which he rarely displays when you need it (unlike Trott, Cook, Collingwood etc etc). He'll generally score his runs when others have and rarely score when it's really needed (which is when you need your 'stars' to stand up and be counted). The Aussie side picked up on it really quickly and destroyed him mentally as well as cricket wise, so we should all know it's there.
I think we should put Bell discussions (and Broad really) to bed as roughly half want Bell to stay and half want him dropped. Probably the same with Broad. That's my last comment on Bell, feel free to answer and have your say but I'll not be commenting further as he's basically like marmite. You either love him purely because of how he looks technique wise or you don't doubt how pretty he is to watch but doubt him mentally. Neither side will change and neither side will agree.Compton's done nothing wrong but due to Roots rise in stock (unproven really at test level) he's under pressure to perform. I personally don't think he's done anything to warrant dropping from the next few ashes series and keep root at six but that's just me.
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I'm hoping Compton's ton keeps the pressure of him for a while from fans and the press alike. Yes it was a flat pitch against a hardly great attack but not seeing many people using that to de-value Cook's hundred.
He'll need to dig in and start again tomorrow morning but seems a to good chance to convert to a "daddy hundred" and make certain that the game is safe
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I know that people have said that it was a flat wicket and the bowling attack isn't the strongest around, but I think some people are missing the circumstances in which Cook and Compton were batting! The pressure on them was massive! And that is what sets aside the good from the excellent!
Both batted superbly under that pressure so I say that Compton has earned his place for a while! ;)
Let's just hope that the media pressure stays away for a while
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Imagine Compton going to bed with the after memories after what is his greatest day in cricket I bet he is proud as punch and quite rightly a test match hundred.
He looks ungaimly a touch but he has shown his bottle in this and in India where better players have crumbled.
Well done that man
All this he has earned his place for a while well doesn't that apply to all 11..
Only in England do we have the hype of the younger player and the quickness to discard...
In both football and cricket...
No player has a deserved right to play at the highest level never mind club level.
He has earned it and done nothing wrong if I was him I would have sent a v sign to all the doubters.
You have to love the underdog..
Proud as punch
http://www.espncricinfo.com/new-zealand-v-england-2013/content/image/624226.html?object=11718 (http://www.espncricinfo.com/new-zealand-v-england-2013/content/image/624226.html?object=11718)
http://www.espncricinfo.com/new-zealand-v-england-2013/content/story/624220.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/new-zealand-v-england-2013/content/story/624220.html)
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Good point Dave.
I don't have SS so don't see the games.
I did hear Compton's interview on 5live this morning. He came across very well and grounded.
In his 90's he simply re-set his mental clock and did what had worked. It could have been Dear Geoffrey talking.
He deserves his place, absolutely. Even if he doesn't score heavily, I like the way he occupies and grinds. Maybe a 35 from him is the same as a 50 from some more fluent scorers.
Good luck to him.
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I'm giving up discussing Bell. No one questions how good he looks or that he has great technique. The questions are around his mental toughness which he rarely displays when you need it (unlike Trott, Cook, Collingwood etc etc). He'll generally score his runs when others have and rarely score when it's really needed (which is when you need your 'stars' to stand up and be counted). The Aussie side picked up on it really quickly and destroyed him mentally as well as cricket wise, so we should all know it's there.
I think we should put Bell discussions (and Broad really) to bed as roughly half want Bell to stay and half want him dropped. Probably the same with Broad. That's my last comment on Bell, feel free to answer and have your say but I'll not be commenting further as he's basically like marmite. You either love him purely because of how he looks technique wise or you don't doubt how pretty he is to watch but doubt him mentally. Neither side will change and neither side will agree.Compton's done nothing wrong but due to Roots rise in stock (unproven really at test level) he's under pressure to perform. I personally don't think he's done anything to warrant dropping from the next few ashes series and keep root at six but that's just me.
I'm happy to put it to bed as well so here is my final response.
Bell is often made the scapegoat when England are failing (particularly on this forum it seems), in the same way that people keep moaning about Trott in ODIs. Bell has spent most of his career at 5 or 6 in an England team that has risen to number 1 in the world and won back to back Ashes for the first time in my lifetime. He has spent a lot of that time coming in behind three of Englands top 6 most hundered makers so its not surprising that a lot of the time when he scores runs somebody in front of him will already have got a hundred. Bell helped secure a draw in the last game of the series in India and people on here moaned about him making a hundred just because Trott scored a hundred as well . If Trott had scored 99 or 72 would Bell's innings have then be deemed worthy? Basically because trott got a hundred you are saying that Bell's effort is devalued because of this yet Trott's effort is not devalued because Bell came afterwards.
In their last 35 innings Trott has averaged 35 with 2 hundreds whilst Bell averages 51 with 4 hundreds yet nobody has ever suggested that Trott should be dropped because he is perceived as dependable while Bell is presumed to be flakey.
Is Bell going to go down as one of England's greatest ever test batsman like Cook looks like he will? Probably not
Is Bell a damn fine test batsman who is one of the 6 best batsman in England right now? Unquestionably yes
Given the thrashings that the Lions took over in Aus recently I wouldn't say that plenty of people are breathing down his neck at the moment. I want to see Bairstow in the side at somepoint but there is no way that he should be playing in front of Bell at the moment. If he struggles over the course of the two ashes series then maybe you can say we could look at bringing Jonny in but the same should also be said of Trott if he struggles as well.
In summary Bell is a good player in good form over the last 2 to 3 years and is one of Englands best 6 batsman right now which is why he is in the team and why he should stay.
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And this, I can't believe the hype being built up around Root. How can people say he's a better player than Compton? Compton has played 10 innings so far and is averaging 61.6 so far (by my calculations)? Root has played 3 innings and is averaging 42? Not opening the innings, not opening the innings in India, and yes he played well, but are people forgetting that actually Compton played well in India as well, although the scores might not have proved it, he formed a valuable partnership with Cook at the top of the order.
Erm, because he is (and will only get better, whereas Compton is, with the best will in the world, at his peak right now).
There are lies, damn lies, and opportunely selected batting averages. I don't really think after three or ten knocks you can place too much store anyway, but to use it with an ongoing 100* is a bit cheeky....
So how has Compton done? Well enough that he deserves to stay in the side (though I'll be honest, I reckon he was pretty close to last chance saloon after that first innings duck) - but I don't think you can compare the composure under pressure and in both adverse and alien conditions that Root showed on debut in India with Compton grinding out a ton against a mediocre attack (and thats mediocre on a good day) on a shirtfront. This is my concern about his first class record of the last 18 months - runs at Taunton tend to be, erm, a little cheap given the batting friendly combination of small boundaries, quick outfield and wickets of motorway-like character. I've seen Root make brilliant scores in horrid conditions - his double ton against Hants last year (out of just over 300) on a minefield was an innings that I can't ever see Compton matching.
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I'm gutted I didn't take the odds of 10/1 for Compton to get a ton in the second innings!
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Erm, because he is (and will only get better, whereas Compton is, with the best will in the world, at his peak right now).
There are lies, damn lies, and opportunely selected batting averages. I don't really think after three or ten knocks you can place too much store anyway, but to use it with an ongoing 100* is a bit cheeky....
So how has Compton done? Well enough that he deserves to stay in the side (though I'll be honest, I reckon he was pretty close to last chance saloon after that first innings duck) - but I don't think you can compare the composure under pressure and in both adverse and alien conditions that Root showed on debut in India with Compton grinding out a ton against a mediocre attack (and thats mediocre on a good day) on a shirtfront. This is my concern about his first class record of the last 18 months - runs at Taunton tend to be, erm, a little cheap given the batting friendly combination of small boundaries, quick outfield and wickets of motorway-like character. I've seen Root make brilliant scores in horrid conditions - his double ton against Hants last year (out of just over 300) on a minefield was an innings that I can't ever see Compton matching.
Take those white rose tinted specs off for a minute will you lol! Root will be class and his stock is constantly rising, but he's got a long long way to go. The fact that Compton is reaching his peak now is completely irrelevant! How many batters do you know who are the best in their early 30s? Don't forget that Root's average takes into account a NO as well, and would be lower without that!
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Hold on who said Compton is at his peak maybe he can get better and better there nothing saying he will not.
As for Root who is a talent who says he will get better.....
A lot of if and buts...
You can see the respective county fans shouting for there man.
Be interesting if Compton goes on and gets a double.
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I said reaching lol. The other thing to remember is that Compton plays the game that the management want to play. Grind teams down, put a big score on the board. Then bowl teams out.
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It's academic anyway isn't it? There's no great need to drop anyone for this series, Comptons doing ok and Root is highly promising.
Besides, no one is bashing the door down to be included in the side.
No need for any change.
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Bring back samit to replace root forum meltdown...
It all about possession end of.
If Compton stays around for let's say 4-5 years who says there not some other kid out there to take Roots spot..
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Infact samit averages as high as root in first class cricket...
Funny how we can interpret different things...
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I think it's all a bit redundant for me. This is the best England XI we can put out at the moment. Only outside contenders are Tredwell to spin and Bairstow to bat. Tredders I'd like to see, Bairstow hasn't done anything to dislodge any of the batters.
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I would say the main battle is bairstow and root.
I think England have seen the mental qualities of Compton and already new them.
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Broad is the only issue for me, completely clueless bowler.
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Any ideas on what bat Mr Finn uses? No stickers, lots of grains?
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What pads he got on
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He was adidas at one point wasn't he?
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Think he gloves them pads are shaped like sg but with strange back colour straps
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I'm not sure about any of his kit. Don't recognise any of it. Anyone able to enlighten us?
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Compdog gone LBW
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Gm pads...?
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Drop Compton, he's useless. Get Root to open!
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GM pads.
Adidas gloves
Bat Looks like his old adidas, especially with the grip(but that's not a dead cert)
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Def adidas gloves. The 3 stripe wristband gives that away. Not caught a close up on his pads yet, and the bat I assume is the one he's always had, with the Adidas stickers removed.
Wonder who will sign him up? Slazenger went through a phase of snapping up England players, especially bowlers, but they've gone quiet recently.
Puma would make sense as for me a bowlers endorsement should not be concentrating on his batting gear, but his footwear. But puma are dropping players left right and centre.
New balance? Dale Steyn seems to like his new spikes, and an additional England player on board for the seemingly imminent UK launch would help NB, and judging by their graphics and softs, they need plenty of help!
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Spartan?
Not a bad deal for someone (depending on how much he wants of course!), yeah he won't bat for ages 9 times out of 10 BUT he should be around for a fair few years and play most if not all games.
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Yep, GM pads, good spots guys who got there before me.
How deep is Spartans pot? Prior cost a lot of dollar, then again, they too are looking to launch in the UK soon.
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Yep, GM pads, good spots guys who got there before me.
How deep is Spartans pot? Prior cost a lot of dollar, then again, they too are looking to launch in the UK soon.
If your going to go to the trouble of trying to crack into the 'big boys' then you are going to need the international players using your kit. Bog standard county cricket guys won't really sell much. Local guys would be better than county ones I'd imagine (purely speculating so tell me if I'm wrong).
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If your going to go to the trouble of trying to crack into the 'big boys' then you are going to need the international players using your kit. Bog standard county cricket guys won't really sell much. Local guys would be better than county ones I'd imagine (purely speculating so tell me if I'm wrong).
Adidas, Woodworm and to an extent Mongoose tried throwing money at the best players in the world.
To various degrees, they've all failed. Mongoose and woodworm went bust and re-emerged as new brands with more sensible strategies (that's my take on it anyway, but I'm an outsider looking in, I don't know the ins and outs) while Adidas appear to be stagnating. The amount of heavily discounted 2010, 2011 and 2012 Adidas bat models on sale everywhere you look tells me not many people have bought bats. I'm presuming they are treading water via the sales of SA and England replica kit and training wear, along with footwear which is popular.
It's a risky strategy. With no guarantee that paying player x will mean you sell y amount of bats.
I imagine it to be incredibly tough to break into the big cricket brands. They all share the common themes of brand identity, history, consumer trust and widespread awareness in the wider bat buying community. All of those things take a long time to establish, and can't be done with a flash in the pan approach.
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I agree that throwing money at top players won't generate enough awareness. As you (IMHO) rightly stated, it's about awareness. Ask most cricket players and kids parents and they only know about GN, GM, Kookaburra on the whole. So when they buy kit they are only interested in that kit. Then they see all their mates and others at their club and clubs they play using the main brands and it keeps getting it into their heads.
That's why when we had threads a while back I said, I reckon the best way is to just target sponsoring amateur players at club level. All you need is a few spread through each league structure, who then push it to their clubs and their mates at other clubs etc (maybe at a discount)... Then after a few years said new brand will have loads of exposure. To me that's the best exposure you can get.
So, is that a viable option Jake (as a retailer and brand owner) or would that just not work? If not, why not?
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Trying to find a bookies that will take a bet I want to make.
NZ to take less than twenty wickets in the remainder of the series.
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This game reminds me of a win/lose/draw game where one team is just batting it out.
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I agree that throwing money at top players won't generate enough awareness. As you (IMHO) rightly stated, it's about awareness. Ask most cricket players and kids parents and they only know about GN, GM, Kookaburra on the whole. So when they buy kit they are only interested in that kit. Then they see all their mates and others at their club and clubs they play using the main brands and it keeps getting it into their heads.
That's why when we had threads a while back I said, I reckon the best way is to just target sponsoring amateur players at club level. All you need is a few spread through each league structure, who then push it to their clubs and their mates at other clubs etc (maybe at a discount)... Then after a few years said new brand will have loads of exposure. To me that's the best exposure you can get.
So, is that a viable option Jake (as a retailer and brand owner) or would that just not work? If not, why not?
It works on a small scale. We 'sponsor' a minor counties player and vital first team player at the biggest club in our area. No end of kids have bought our own brand bats because he is using them.
In theory it works, but doing it nationwide would require a lot of effort, time, and money still. probably not the amounts needed to get top internationals on board, but that route is certainly easier.
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Half the forum deserve sponsorship with the amount of exposure some give
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Half the forum deserve sponsorship with the amount of exposure some give
Someone was getting their 15th H4L I read yesterday!!
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Is anything but a draw possible now?
At least I get my stake back on the 'draw no bet' bets I made on England to win.
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Drop Compton, he's useless. Get Root to open!
think useless is totally wrong, he did just score 100 and is still going....
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think useless is totally wrong, he did just score 100 and is still going....
Still going????? He's out buddy. LBW.
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All this talk of Compton and Root is silly when we've just unearthed one if the greatest all rounders in the history of the game, Steven Finn.
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Looks like broad's batting at number 11 from now on then...?
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There it is! Well batted Finny :D
I wish he would've kissed the pitch, maybe he's saving that for his ton
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Trotty gone and outscored by our new top-notch allrounder!
KP on a pair. So will Finn outlast KP?
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Finn for a ton!!!
Outscoring Trott.. oh dear.. Drop Trott!!! Disgraceful :)
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Loving the TMS commentary. Australia's number 3 has averaged 29 over the last few years, and they're also suggesting the number 3 should be your best batsman... Stand up Mr Finn ;)
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Loving the TMS commentary. Australia's number 3 has averaged 29 over the last few years, and they're also suggesting the number 3 should be your best batsman... Stand up Mr Finn ;)
If Finn were Aussie he'd be opening after this display!
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16/1 for Finn to get a ton.. I don't think he's scoring quickly enough to take the bet
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16/1 for Finn to get a ton.. I don't think he's scoring quickly enough to take the bet
tbh we want him just to keep blocking etc. Use up balls and let KP and co bat around him. Especially as we've lost Cook, Trott and Compdog.
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I didn't say it was a bad thing he wasn't scoring quickly did I
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Pressure on KP now! All 4 batsmen above him have managed a 50 or 100!!
Match that one fella ;)
He looks as rusty as my side gate!!
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Pressure's on Bell :)
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This is nothing short of legendary from Finn
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Top knock from Finn, now we get to see what Root's temprament is like
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Game over now surely, England get out of jail but a very important wake up call I think
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Gee Root had a big test match ;) :D
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Gee Root had a big test match ;) :D
Drop him and bat Finn at 6
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Great fight back by the English, solid application for the 2 days. It might have been a different story without Finns fantastic effort, his highest 1st class score and more importantly the time and balls he soaked up, especially the hour he went without scoring a run, a couple of days of good old fashioned test cricket.
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Drop him and bat Finn at 6
Good call. Drop Root, Bell, Broad, Pietersen. Hmmm who else can we drop ;) :D
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Good call. Drop Root, Bell, Broad, Pietersen. Hmmm who else can we drop ;) :D
Flower did nothing this test match, no point him being there
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And it's called a draw.
Must say hats off to NZ for putting up a competitive game an well done to England for saving ( do you guys ave any idea how much it hurts to say that ) haha
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Well I'm very surprised at how we have dominated this test, I was expecting the complete opposite, now that Eng have woken up and gained a bit of respect for NZ, the second test will be a better contest if NZ can back up again.
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Top knock from Finn, now we get to see what Root's temprament is like
Sadly, we didn't because that other bastion of hard headedness under pressure [/sarcasm] Bell ran him out in the search for a desperately needed quick single.
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I managed to make it to half way through the afternoon session before I dozed off. Just woken up on the sofa in a tasty pool of dribble.
Cracking knock by Finn. Its good to know the England tail isn't quite as long as we thought and puts even more pressure on Broad to contribute runs.
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Cracking knock by Finn. Its good to know the England tail isn't quite as long as we thought and puts even more pressure on Broad to contribute runs.
I don't think we should assume that this means he will make regular scores in Test cricket going forward!
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Bit of a kicker as he scored more than kp while using one of kps bats haha bet he won't be lending him one again
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Te quality knock by Finn
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Weather looks good for a start on time, hopefully you guys will turn up from ball one today.
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Weather looks good for a start on time, hopefully you guys will turn up from all one today.
Surely you don't hope we turn up? if we do it'll be all over in 3 days... :D
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It works on a small scale. We 'sponsor' a minor counties player and vital first team player at the biggest club in our area. No end of kids have bought our own brand bats because he is using them.
In theory it works, but doing it nationwide would require a lot of effort, time, and money still. probably not the amounts needed to get top internationals on board, but that route is certainly easier.
After 5 or 6 games last season a player in the club I play for in London got contacted by Bradbury on the back of his play cricket average. They sponsored him, he went to the showroom and could pick out any kit at cost price.
They then sent him a good luck e mail every Saturday morning (well a generic one to sponsored players)
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Ouch! Their will be some very tired boys by the time your boys declare at some stage tomorrow. Congrats to Compton and Trott, classic test match batting.
re Trott, I heard on the commentary that he has never out of his 3188 test runs he has never hit a six, that must be the most runs ever scored without clearing the rope.
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Trott is simply outstanding always has been his aptitude for batting is insane.
As for Compton he is showing a few people and back to back hundreds is a sign.
Glad for him in the same mental mindset as trott it looks.
No matter what the bowling or pitch.
There both like everready batteries they keep going on and on.
Compton is no world beater but what he is is somebody who knows there game knows what there doing and how to do it.
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Great day from England, both captains seemed to've misread the pitch as it looks flat as a pancake. Good toss to lose!!
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i dont think the pitches deteriorate as much as other places in the world so they both many have been thinking the 1st morning for any movement(if any)
will be interesting to see if there is any spin for Monty when NZ bat and if Anderson gets any swing
more bounce and pace in this wicket far better than the dull game last time round.
Trott is becoming a total success at number 3 for us,Compton clearly can play.....
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"Trott is becoming a total success at number 3"
nothing wrong with a bit of an understatement! there are only two current players averaging over 50 in ODI and Test cricket. Amla is the other.
Also Shane Watson has scored 2 hundreds in 40 tests, Nick Compton has scored 2 in 6 tests :)
Unless we bowl sensationally, I think this game will be a rain affected draw :(
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Now we shall see what Mr Bell has in his locker :) Two previous ton's so the basis is there for him to score one too.
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"Trott is becoming a total success at number 3"
nothing wrong with a bit of an understatement! there are only two current players averaging over 50 in ODI and Test cricket. Amla is the other.
Also Shane Watson has scored 2 hundreds in 40 tests, Nick Compton has scored 2 in 6 tests :)
Unless we bowl sensationally, I think this game will be a rain affected draw :(
I'd like to see a bit of rain, might liven up the wicket a bit
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Now we shall see what Mr Bell has in his locker :) Two previous ton's so the basis is there for him to score one too.
What's his excuse this time? Flat deck, tons scored before hand.... Yet still hasn't got it between the ears.
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pretty awful shot it has to be said.
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Needs some chalk on his cue, useless bugger
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annoyingly though he'd been playing a couple of beauties as well! Cook and Flower should be fuming at him.
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Bairstow should be fuming at Cookand Flower that Bell was taking his spot! ;)
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Can Someone upload a profile pic of Joe Roots bat?
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Watching KP play left arm spin is still comical.
How can I player like KP still have such a major issue with left arm orthodox spin!! Surely he's not so arrogant as to fob it off in practice and fail to get it sorted.
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Watching KP play left arm spin is still comical.
How can I player like KP still have such a major issue with left arm orthodox spin!! Surely he's not so arrogant as to fob it off in practice and fail to get it sorted.
Didn't Dravid spend some time with him trying to polish up his technique? It worked for a while but he seems to have reverted to his old ways....have to say I think this guy Davidson, whilst not a world beater is better than average, he keeps things tight and builds pressure well...
Another Bell failure when it matters, all the form in the world coming into this series but seemingly still missing a bit between the ears.
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Just noticed one of the spectators watching the game! Is this Wilkies granny?
(http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii471/petehosk/E7739AF8-9FB8-45AB-AD1C-BDC1FB85C39B-842-0000016B480DA7CD_zps68ae7c87.jpg)
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Bring in Patel for root.
Funny a few weeks make
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FFS Root.. peee poor shot! England in self destruct mode it seems.
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Just noticed one of the spectators watching the game! Is this Wilkies granny?
([url]http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii471/petehosk/E7739AF8-9FB8-45AB-AD1C-BDC1FB85C39B-842-0000016B480DA7CD_zps68ae7c87.jpg[/url])
I saw her and though this!
She was speed knitting!! Quicker pair of hands than Watling!
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Bring in Patel for root.
Funny a few weeks make
Root could break his leg and I'd still prefer him over Samit Patel! Patel is not an international player, let alone test standard
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Impatient batting from both Bell and Root. NZs bowling has deserved more respect in this session
Good to see KP prepared to work a bit for his runs
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Well on the basis of records I guess there not much to choose between them .
I suspect you have never seen samit build and play a decent innings
Look at root first class record it suggest a average player
England pick him for a reason
Now I not saying he is better was more tongue in check but I will roll with it.
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Just noticed one of the spectators watching the game! Is this Wilkies granny?
([url]http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii471/petehosk/E7739AF8-9FB8-45AB-AD1C-BDC1FB85C39B-842-0000016B480DA7CD_zps68ae7c87.jpg[/url])
This can't be wilkies granny... She's far too fast with those needles. And she's not making soft pockets either. What a let down
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Bairstow will be rubbing his hands together with roots poor shot selection's so far, nice to have batting depth in the touring party...
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Roots fine. Just needs a darn good run at 6 to bed in. This is why he is not ready for opening. Let the guy become test player first.
As for Bell... Useless.
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Well on the basis of records I guess there not much to choose between them .
I suspect you have never seen samit build and play a decent innings
Look at root first class record it suggest a average player
England pick him for a reason
Now I not saying he is better was more tongue in check but I will roll with it.
I have seen Samit build an innings and he is effective in the county game there is no denying. However, like you said there is not a lot to choose between them, but I don't see "Fat Sam" as a good advert for international cricket.
Then again it gives me the hope "If Patel is fit enough to play for England I have half a chance"
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Off course root will be fine but lets get one thing right the hype on here you would have thought it was the 2nd coming of Tendulkar..
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Priors looked as loose as Jordan since he came in
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Patel is the most a frustrating England player. 100 times more so than broad.
Here you have a player
Who has the talent and mental capacity to play cricket around the globe. All he has to do is hit the gym (which at NCCC) is top notch, and lay off the pies. Be he doesn't do it, he would rather eat oies and play in wet Englnd than India, SA, NZ, SL, Australia.
He has been given 2 chances, and wasted them both as if they were a free side salad.
I'm a Notts fan, and like to see their players do well even if it damges their championship hopes.
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Loops, 2 in 2, Broads on fire, my seabelts done up and I'm ready for the ride ............whew survived.
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After that performance, we should definitely drop Broad....
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After that performance, we should definitely drop Broad....
I agree, drop him down the batting order! ;)
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Finn needs to bat higher, he's wasted at 9
:o
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What's his excuse this time? Flat deck, tons scored before hand.... Yet still hasn't got it between the ears.
Thought you didn't want to talk about Bell anymore? :-[
If he didnt 'have it between the ears' then i'm pretty sure he wouldn't have played 80 odd tests
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I don't really understand all this Bell and root bashing.
Root is young and needs time to settle into his place. Of course there are going to be low scores, you cant get a ton every game.
Then Bell, when he doesnt get a ton and someone else does, he is classed to be dropped, but when he does get a ton and others don't he is seen as lucky and saving his place for the next year.
Not every player can get a big score every innings, low scores do happen, ducks happen, if it didn't cricket would be very boring.
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I was a bit disappointed with the way Root got out but he'll learn from it. The issue is that he needs to be settled in as a test player by Trent Bridge.
Glad Broad got a couple of wickets to shut the haters up for a day.
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A few played bad shots that they should be disappointed with, Bell Kp and Root
Broad should be batting 10, even behind Anderson
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Great caught and bowled broad
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Great caught and bowled broad
He's bowling where he should be and suddenly looks good again. The guy should never bowl short or back of a length!
WHAT A BALL JIMMY!!!
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a bit of reverse going on
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I wish Broad would just pitch it up
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I wish Broad would just pitch it up
He's getting cocky again. Few good overs, few wicket and he's suddenly thinking he's rapid and a bang it in bowler again... fool.
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montys on :)
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Monty looks less of a threat than Martin. That's a concern.
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Monty looks less of a threat than Martin. That's a concern.
different bowlers.
Martin used the wind etc to assist his 'flight' bowling. Monty isn't that type.
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Finn is bowling like a drain
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different bowlers.
Martin used the wind etc to assist his 'flight' bowling. Monty isn't that type.
i guess that is why Monty isn't quite world class. A team with a world class spinner having seen Martin turn it in the first innings would be expecting a five for from their spinner. With Monty we need the pitch to suit him, not just it being a spinning pitch. Not seen him move it off straight yet.
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pretty much that with Monty. He's good on a pitch that suits him, on anything else he's not quite good enough. Still, let's hope Swann comes back from his elbow injury the same bowler. The bowling unit misses him more than people admit.
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we watching the same game?
it has turned, all be it not like in India, but theres still assistance
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I thought Monty bowled very well there, would like to see a leg-slip in with the straight line he is bowling
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I want pietersen to bowl before root
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Looks like rain will save the English this time. It's also forecast for tomorrow.
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Hold the phone you're not off the hook yet, the covers are off!
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Forecast for tomorrow is rain becoming persistent, little likely hood of play, maybe a session at the most so off to Auckland all square with still a chance to steal a series win.
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Hopefully the Kiwi's will prepare a devil of a wicket for the last test.. Seam everywhere, dodgy bounce.. the lot.
Will make it a winner takes all game :)
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Forecast is holding true, rain throughout the day. Agree pitches need a bit of spicing up, Auckland tends to offer a little more to the bowlers but still a very good wicket.
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These daft countries where it rains in the Cricket season. I mean, who'd play cricket there hey???
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And the stupid thing is we are in the middle of a drought, before the test started Wellington city had only 20 days left of water in reserve, I'm sure the farmers are a little happier.
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KPs out, not sure if this is a good thing or not for NZ
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good thing for England - Bluey will get a game!
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Shame, but at least he's prioritising the Ashes over the IPL. Looks like Bairstow will come in, but I'd be tempted to draft in Woakes for Panesar.
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Bairstow in I presume, Bell moves up to 4?
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For that wicket there is a good argument for doing so - or perhaps even for giving Tredwell, who bowls slow enough that he will get a bit of turn on almost anything, a game.
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Bell moves up to 4?
oh god :(
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It never a good thing to see a England side without kp in it
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oh god :(
Haha, that actually made me laugh! Your worst nightmare. I don't see England doing anything different i.e.putting Root or Bairstow at 4 :/
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Haha, that actually made me laugh! Your worst nightmare. I don't see England doing anything different i.e.putting Root or Bairstow at 4 :/
tbf it's the right call to put Bell to 4. He has the experience and I'd rather see Root kept down the order currently. Be interesting to see Bairstow play though. Hopefully he does well.
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agreed that an england side without KP is weaker, i'd like to seePprior moved up and Woakes given a game but think the obvious choice is Bairstow in and Bell moved up to 4 :-(
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So, is everyone trying to forget about this series then? :D
I don't blame you......I was looking forward to this series so much. For one I think this Kiwi side is actually on the way to being a decent unit, secondly New Zealand is a beautiful place so visually it's always nice and thirdly the time difference means I can retire to my office at 9pm, close the door and drink Grey Goose for a few hours with my feet up watching it!
Sadly it hasn't worked out like that. These pitches will be the death of test cricket. Ok, so they've had a drought so pitch prep has been made a lot harder, I accept that, but overall it has been the most boring series I can remember. No spin, no pace, little bounce, hardly any swing and no seam movement at all! If my eyes don't deceive me NZ have started playing for the draw from the first ball in this match and I reckon they'll get it!
Why aren't all nations forced to use the Dukes ball? It's blatantly obvious that the Kook balls are rubbish. If everyone had to use a Duke then at least the balance of most test matches will be evened up, even if it's only a little bit it would help! Sort the pitches out and make every side use a proper cricket ball, not some sub-continent made crap that loses it's shine after 5 overs and goes soft after 10.
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So, is everyone trying to forget about this series then? :D
I don't blame you......I was looking forward to this series so much. For one I think this Kiwi side is actually on the way to being a decent unit, secondly New Zealand is a beautiful place so visually it's always nice and thirdly the time difference means I can retire to my office at 9pm, close the door and drink Grey Goose for a few hours with my feet up watching it!
Sadly it hasn't worked out like that. These pitches will be the death of test cricket. Ok, so they've had a drought so pitch prep has been made a lot harder, I accept that, but overall it has been the most boring series I can remember. No spin, no pace, little bounce, hardly any swing and no seam movement at all! If my eyes don't deceive me NZ have started playing for the draw from the first ball in this match and I reckon they'll get it!
Why aren't all nations forced to use the Dukes ball? It's blatantly obvious that the Kook balls are rubbish. If everyone had to use a Duke then at least the balance of most test matches will be evened up, even if it's only a little bit it would help! Sort the pitches out and make every side use a proper cricket ball, not some sub-continent made crap that loses it's shine after 5 overs and goes soft after 10.
The Kooks are actually made in Australia
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Still a rubbish cricket ball! ;) :D
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Infact Kookaburra are used for all tests in every country bar England and India
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Infact Kookaburra are used for all tests in every country bar England and India
It really is a rubbish ball though.
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Do we know how the dukes would fare in every single condition around the world?
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How do you come to that conclusion?
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well not only can you see it on the tv constantly but also if you buy a duke yourself for nets and buy a kooka for nets you'll find out pretty quickly which one lasts longest (as in seaming, swinging etc).
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Hardly any seam, less stitching on it I believe and it goes softer much quicker. Give the bowlers a chance, especially if the pitches are as dire as the ones we are seeing at the moment. The best games are a good balance between bat and ball.
Dammit, still can't 'quote'!!
@The-Bird
We don't but they used Dukes in Dubai for all the pre-season stuff and people loved them....they swung around corners and stayed hard for a decent amount of time.
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well not only can you see it on the tv constantly but also if you buy a duke yourself for nets and buy a kooka for nets you'll find out pretty quickly which one lasts longest (as in seaming, swinging etc).
I wouldn't say a ball the swings and seam more is a better ball. I would say swing and seam should come down to the skill of the bowler..
Here in Aus 99% of all cricket played from juniors right up to first class and test we all use Kookaburra balls... From what I gather from posts on here every team seems to use a different ball... Why is that? Why isn't it uniform where all teams must use the same ball?
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Thats fair enough pedals, my point was it's hard to make a comparison without knowing how the dukes would compare in similar conditions. I would imagine a contract to provide cricket balls for 90% of the games in world cricket is a very long and expensive one.
Who makes the one day balls in England?
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@number 4
so we don't have a monopoly on ball providers!!
hello the free market and competition helping lower prices :)
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Hardly any seam, less stitching on it I believe and it goes softer much quicker. Give the bowlers a chance, especially if the pitches are as dire as the ones we are seeing at the moment. The best games are a good balance between bat and ball.
Dammit, still can't 'quote'!!
@The-Bird
We don't but they used Dukes in Dubai for all the pre-season stuff and people loved them....they swung around corners and stayed hard for a decent amount of time.
So England like using them cause they are a ball they are able to bowl swing with?
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@number 4
so we don't have a monopoly on ball providers!!
hello the free market and competition helping lower prices :)
Just supporting an Australian company and Australian jobs Buzz
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I wouldn't say a ball the swings and seam more is a better ball. I would say swing and seam should come down to the skill of the bowler..
Here in Aus 99% of all cricket played from juniors right up to first class and test we all use Kookaburra balls... From what I gather from posts on here every team seems to use a different ball... Why is that? Why isn't it uniform where all teams must use the same ball?
still comes down to 'skill' (or action that's probably random more than skill :) ) to bowl swing/seam. However, I completely agree with you that's it's a good thing to use the same ball for all games. That is something I wish would happen in this country. I sure Dukes could produce a few million more balls and keep the costs down if they wanted too. (plus it would stop leagues using some really shockingly bad balls!)
The main nation I'm surprised doesn't choose Dukes is SA. I can understand India (apparently someone is cleverer than I am and says it's SG that provide Indias ball), Pak and SL using Kook as they like batting so would choose the batter friendly ball. NZ is basically just Australia (sorry Kiwi's :) ) and Kooks are an Aussie company so Aus will have to use them.
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So England like using them cause they are a ball they are able to bowl swing with?
Why do you think it takes more 'skill' to bowl with a Kooka? It's the same when both are new etc. The difference (as people have said and you are ignoring) is one will go soft quickly and become a dead ball and the other will continue to swing/seam for longer and so provide a better contest between bat and ball. 'Skill' has no baring on it as it's the same skill with both balls and as far as I can see all nations can swing both balls (and I'm pretty sure anyone on this forum who swings a kook or duke could swing the other one if asked)
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India use SG balls ProCricketer
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India use SG balls ProCricketer
Fine, remove Ind from that list. Point still stands.
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It's a pointless argument anyway. The Dukes gives the bowlers more of a chance. More of a chance for the bowlers means a better game on the flat, lifeless pitches most nations produce now. That's what I'm after, games that are worth watching.
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my experience of playing in australia is that yes the ball used may be of the same brand ( i cant remember if i used a kookaburra or not) but the balls vary between grades of cricket. I remember bowling for a grade 2 side when we used a 4 piece ball that moved a little but after a minor injury i dropped down the the grade 3 side and we used a 2 piece ball that i could swing round corners. surely thats not exactly equal? you would be in the nets at training with guys from 1st grade running in and bowling at decent pace swinging it a little, you were able to playing it easily. you would then face a lower grade bowler bowling boomeranging donkey drops which were impossible to play. in the UK we may use different branded balls per leagues but atleast ( to my knowledge anyway) all balls have to be 4 piece.
a soft ball does nothing for the game and leads to tame draws. do we think that a dukes ball in the first 2 tests would have led to two draws, even with the rain? maybe not. yes they may have still been draws but it would have been a little more of a scrap and fight towards the end. it would have kept the bowlers interested longer as the harder ball would have given them a little more reward for their efforts. i would also say that on a small ground 250-1 in a days play showed we bowled well just without luck/created many chances. it could be the fact the batsman played well or we didnt make them play enough but im sure a dukes ball which stays harder for longer would have made it more interesting. you would have expected a fair amount more to be scored when boundaries are only 53m.
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my experience of playing in australia is that yes the ball used may be of the same brand ( i cant remember if i used a kookaburra or not) but the balls vary between grades of cricket. I remember bowling for a grade 2 side when we used a 4 piece ball that moved a little but after a minor injury i dropped down the the grade 3 side and we used a 2 piece ball that i could swing round corners. surely thats not exactly equal? you would be in the nets at training with guys from 1st grade running in and bowling at decent pace swinging it a little, you were able to playing it easily. you would then face a lower grade bowler bowling boomeranging donkey drops which were impossible to play. in the UK we may use different branded balls per leagues but atleast ( to my knowledge anyway) all balls have to be 4 piece.
Jesus, no wonder they can't produce any spinners or batsmen if they grow up playing with a two piece, even I can make those things go round corners!
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Why do you think it takes more 'skill' to bowl with a Kooka? It's the same when both are new etc. The difference (as people have said and you are ignoring) is one will go soft quickly and become a dead ball and the other will continue to swing/seam for longer and so provide a better contest between bat and ball. 'Skill' has no baring on it as it's the same skill with both balls and as far as I can see all nations can swing both balls (and I'm pretty sure anyone on this forum who swings a kook or duke could swing the other one if asked)
I didn't say it took more skill.. You guys claimed they were better balls cause they "swung around corners"
Didn't think sarcasm was called for regarding India using SG balls.. never claimed to know more than you just stating a fact... Maybe if you knew your facts before waffling on there wouldn't be any confusion.
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Jesus, no wonder they can't produce any spinners or batsmen if they grow up playing with a two piece, even I can make those things go round corners!
Sure it wasn't a Dukes?
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Sure it wasn't a Dukes?
Nah, nothing swings like a twp piece. I've found the seam on the dukes make a lot more difference than anything else, it's mainly readers balls used in Scotland though, and god knows what it is we use in Norway, something made in a garden shed i think.
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Maybe if you knew your facts before waffling on there wouldn't be any confusion.
If we all did that you'd have very few people talking in the world as no one know's everything. You just picked up something that was pretty irrelevant to the point of the post so proved or disproved nothing, other than picking at another member just because you could. (although I assume correct about India as I have no idea or wish to know/care what India use)
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NZ is basically just Australia (sorry Kiwi's :) ) and Kooks are an Aussie company so Aus will have to use them.
Very small-minded view of the world there. NZ are an independent cricketing nation and I'm sure they are not obliged to use any particular company
Different balls in different countries comes as part of the touring experience I feel. We weren't moaning about the Kook ball when we won the Ashes down under. Get on with it
The pitches have been more to blame in this series without doubt. And it seems as though people have forgotten about a chap called Swann and what a difference he makes to the side. Monty is good but Swann is excellent
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As the only nation using Dukes I just know how you come to the conclusion that its the best ball.. maybe it is or maybe it isn't. I do know CA were looking at using Dukes balls because they believe it gave England an advantage in the ashes series in England so wanted to get players used to a ball that swings excessively
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Hats off to two metre Peter as well.
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Very small-minded view of the world there. NZ are an independent cricketing nation and I'm sure they are not obliged to use any particular company
Different balls in different countries comes as part of the touring experience I feel. We weren't moaning about the Kook ball when we won the Ashes down under. Get on with it
The pitches have been more to blame in this series without doubt. And it seems as though people have forgotten about a chap called Swann and what a difference he makes to the side. Monty is good but Swann is excellent
I agree Alba... They should be making better cricket wickets not worrying about which balls are being used
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I agree Alba... They should be making better cricket wickets not worrying about which balls are being used
Botham was talking about it last night on commentary mate, should only be expected that a few people jump on the bandwagon
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Botham was talking about it last night on commentary mate, should only be expected that a few people jump on the bandwagon
Woah, off of your soap box. People are entitled to their opinions regardless of where they come from!
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Woah, off of your soap box. People are entitled to their opinions regardless of where they come from!
They are entitled to their own opinions yes. All those who have used both the Dukes and Kookaburra balls in identical conditions are welcome to compare them
If you haven't used both then you are forming an opinion because of what someone on tv has told you
As I said no-one was complaining about the kookaburra ball when we rolled Australia over. And South Africa haven't had many issues recently in the Kook ball not doing much have they?
And what is a soap box??
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They are entitled to their own opinions yes. All those who have used both the Dukes and Kookaburra balls in identical conditions are welcome to compare them
If you haven't used both then you are forming an opinion because of what someone on tv has told you
As I said no-one was complaining about the kookaburra ball when we rolled Australia over. And South Africa haven't had many issues recently in the Kook ball not doing much have they?
Pretty sure I remember watching said ashes series and the ball being blasted then as well. SA commentators constantly make a note about the ball going soft early as well. They just seem to 'get on with it' as they don't have anything else so why bother discussing it. England have something different so have more of a discussion over it.
Many people will have used both types of ball. I brought both purely to see the difference and how long they lasted just so I wasn't going off TV pundits as you say. Not saying my mini judgemetn is perfect, correct, flawless etc.. It's as good as it gets for now though.
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They are entitled to their own opinions yes. All those who have used both the Dukes and Kookaburra balls in identical conditions are welcome to compare them
If you haven't used both then you are forming an opinion because of what someone on tv has told you
As I said no-one was complaining about the kookaburra ball when we rolled Australia over. And South Africa haven't had many issues recently in the Kook ball not doing much have they?
And what is a soap box??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap_box (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap_box)
I like to help.
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The pitches around the world are what needs looking at more than the balls
Lol it wasn't much of a speech it was only one line
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is a bit odd to use a rugby ground, it's not like the need the capacity!
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The pitches around the world are what needs looking at more than the balls
I agree that decent wickets would have more effect than the ball.
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Bearing in mind that the quality of pitches, despite the constant criticism of them, is actually getting worse and not better then possibly looking to change the ball to one that does stay hard for more than 5 overs and gives a little bit more back to the bowler is quite a sensible idea.
The pitches aren't going to change, all most groundsmen are worried about these days is ensuring a test lasts 5 days to maximise profits. Seeing that that is the case what other suggestions have people got for making tests more of a balance between bat and ball? Maybe a new ball at both ends like in ODI cricket?
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Bearing in mind that the quality of pitches, despite the constant criticism of them, is actually getting worse and not better then possibly looking to change the ball to one that does stay hard for more than 5 overs and gives a little bit more back to the bowler is quite a sensible idea.
The pitches aren't going to change, all most groundsmen are worried about these days is ensuring a test lasts 5 days to maximise profits. Seeing that that is the case what other suggestions have people got for making tests more of a balance between bat and ball? Maybe a new ball at both ends like in ODI cricket?
Batsman have to run on the 4th ball if there is 3 dot balls in a row!
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Red sightscreen?
I would like there to be more involvement from the ICC into pitch preparation. Pitches like that one in Dunedin are terrible for the game.
Yes each country should have their own characteristics but there should be something for the bowler particularly as the game goes into days 4 and 5
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Make the stumps 4 ft tall..... :D
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Maybe the proposed day/night test matches with the pink ball will make a difference? Then again I think that's more about getting people outside of England to go and watch the matches....I doubt it has anything to do with actually giving them a watchable product!
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Bearing in mind that the quality of pitches, despite the constant criticism of them, is actually getting worse and not better then possibly looking to change the ball to one that does stay hard for more than 5 overs and gives a little bit more back to the bowler is quite a sensible idea.
The pitches aren't going to change, all most groundsmen are worried about these days is ensuring a test lasts 5 days to maximise profits. Seeing that that is the case what other suggestions have people got for making tests more of a balance between bat and ball? Maybe a new ball at both ends like in ODI cricket?
You could change balls every 40 overs instead of 80 maybe?
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is a bit odd to use a rugby ground, it's not like the need the capacity!
I agree, 54m to knock a 6 off the edge is well wow
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The thing about this ground is it makes you realise just how far they whack it and how big the really big grounds are.
Our club boundaries are 55m straight and 60m square which is generally regarded as a decent sized ground at a decent level of cricket.
These (Eden park) boundaries are similar and it is considered a postage stamp do a ground.
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I like Jimmys boots, are they a new range? Never seen them before
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Got a pic of them?
David Lloyd marked out Bob Willis' run up earlier. It started 3 yards from the boundary rope.....
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I like Jimmys boots, are they a new range? Never seen them before
I was wondering about this, I saw Southee in the same as well I think. Could be prototypes to see what they are like maybe?
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(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g436/Alex_Sparrow/EB13AC45-1.jpg)
They look like SL 22's but aren't as garish and don't have the silly strap thing.
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Looks like Piror has new keeping gloves as the Spartan symbol is dark blue instead of white. I did not notice yesterday so not sure if be had the on or not but certianly different to the last 2 tests.
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Goodness, you can see why test cricket around the world is on its (No Swearing Please). This is dreadful, the test series in the West Indies is a joke, and the series in India isn't far off a joke. Roll on the IPL I say.
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Is Mary Whitehouse monitoring this forum. Since when has another word for a persons bottom been deemed swear word. Lol.
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Ross Taylor smashes two boundaries then goes working a left arm spinner to mid wicket, against the spin.... Village that!! He's better than that rubbish. Set them up and knock them down Monty.
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Dull pitch, dull cricket - no magic spark from England, no bristling intent from NZ.
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I really like Monty as a cricketer, but I would find it hard to defend him here if someone said he was average. He is relying on the batter making a massive mistake, not spinning them out.
I want him to be one of the best spinners in the world but he is not. Why is that? Is it that he needs more variation?
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Average catch from Prior? ;)
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What a catch :o
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I take catches like that in my sleep. After 6 pints. And a kebab.
Back to Monty, he seems to be stuck in 'contain' mode and as has been pointed out before, needs a helpful track to get a haul of wickets. In my mind he is a player who knows that he is 2nd choice and so doesn't have the confidence to bounce back after a couple of bare innings.
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Are there any left arm spinners that have "the one that goes the other way"?
Loads of off spinners have a ball that goes away from the bat, not sure i have seen a leftie with one that turns back into the right hand bat.
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Shillingford and Ashwin both have superb Doosra's, I've thought Monty has always bowled the same regardless of how the pitch is playing. Was it Warne that said he would bowl different speeds depending on each individual pitch? Monty seems to bowl 55mph regardless.
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I think Monty may lose ground this summer if Borthwick, Briggs or Kerrigan can make any strides forward this summer.
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Shillingford and Ashwin both have superb Doosra's, I've thought Monty has always bowled the same regardless of how the pitch is playing. Was it Warne that said he would bowl different speeds depending on each individual pitch? Monty seems to bowl 55mph regardless.
Exactly what I mean. Is it a physiological reason why slow left armers don't bowl a doosra, or just that no one has developed one? I guess there is greater motivation in an off spinner getting one to go away from right hand bat than for a SLA to get one to turn in.
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I agree, as an ex-SLA myself, the wrong 'un can just turn into the pad. A better ball was an arm ball that you could stick up outside off-stump and that swung in late.
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With the volume of lefties in international top orders it might not be long until a SLA has the motivation to invent a ball that goes the other way. Would be good to see.
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Perhaps a better ball for the SLA is the one that is angled in towards the stumps and that skids on to claim the LBW?
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Are there any left arm spinners that have "the one that goes the other way"?
Loads of off spinners have a ball that goes away from the bat, not sure i have seen a leftie with one that turns back into the right hand bat.
Chinamen/Chinaman bowlers of old days were termed as such because they bowled Left handed but it was an off-spinner to right handed bat so it is doable..
and Brad hogg as well...
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Perhaps a better ball for the SLA is the one that is angled in towards the stumps and that skids on to claim the LBW?
totally agree, it's the equivalent ball swann has had great success with as an offie, and a ball that Jadeja uses well for India now. I just haven't seen an orthodox left armer turn it the other way.
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Chinamen/Chinaman bowlers of old days were termed as such because they bowled Left handed but it was an off-spinner to right handed bat so it is doable..
and Brad hogg as well...
Yes, but these are wrist spinners. Has there been/ is there a left arm finger spinner that turns one from off to leg as a variation?
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I can't think of any doosra bowling left armers. Maybe because the angle when it doesn't spin is just as good?
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To get maximum bemusement out of a chinaman it really needs to be bowled from over the wicket 6 inches outside off stump, followed by the wrong 'un in the same place (as if any of us could do that :)).
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Rangana Herath has a carrom ball, and I think for a while Pragyan Ojha had some semblance of an "other one", but no leftie international spinner aside from those 2 has one I don't think. I personally don't feel that a SLA bowler really needs one at the top level, because as a general rule they will turn it big enough for the arm-ball to be a big threat. At a lower level I think it is a useful tool, because people don't always read it well from the hand, and I've been working (for a few years now) on one that is flicked out like a carrom ball, and against lefties it is almost like bowling a leg-spinner, turns away nicely. But my biggest wicket-taker is the one that skids on, normally I get it to straighten (and turn away a bit) but the one that kicks on is just about the biggest wicket-taker.
And 100% with what Fattus says, the control needed to be a chinaman bowler (if only purely because it isn't as effective to right handers) is ridiculous!
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Why is the ground MT? Is it too dear for the locals to turn up? Or is it in the middle of nowhere?
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Think we could be in the poo here! Someone needs to really stand up and be counted today - time for Bell to silence the doubters.
On another note, this series has bored the (No Swearing Please) off me so far, I suspect this may be the same for other members judging by the complete lack of interest on this thread, even when play is in session.
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Think we could be in the poo here! Someone needs to really stand up and be counted today - time for Bell to silence the doubters.
On another note, this series has bored the (No Swearing Please) off me so far, I suspect this may be the same for other members judging by the complete lack of interest on this thread, even when play is in session.
Blah blah blahhhhhhhhhhhhh. That's how this series has felt to me. Boring! I've been more interested in doing essays, which says something!
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time for Bell to silence the doubters.
Yeah right :)
They did just say that Bell is chasing Tresco on runs scored!! I know who I'd rather have in my side given the choice.
On another note, this series has bored the (No Swearing Please) off me so far, I suspect this may be the same for other members judging by the complete lack of interest on this thread, even when play is in session.
For me it's been just a batting fest. Yes both teams batsmen have made mistakes which has lead to wickets but it's just like being back in India! (although either they/Aus are suddenly awesome bowling sides or the wicket they are on is good if their current score card is anything to go by! 400+ plays 400+.. Draw time
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Please know that I wanted Bell to get runs as we are getting beaten... But... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Well batted Bell!!!! (does anyone else think it may have been a bit high before the replay comes on???)
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Please know that I wanted Bell to get runs as we are getting beaten... But... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Well batted Bell!!!! (does anyone else think it may have been a bit high before the replay comes on???)
you wanted Bell to get runs then you put that? Lol makes no sense lol
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Looked high but england dont have any devine right to win a test match.
Nz are a decent outfit with nothing to lose
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New Zealand are better then we all expected.
I thing there a decent side indeed
We are not,as good as we think we are either
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Well, I'm with you on Bell - another pressure situation, another failure.
We'll not challenge for the no1 spot with series performances like this.
I really hope Root and Bairstow make a name for themselves here, and that Prior gets the time to make a big match-changing score.
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Maybe just maybe a series win for NZ.........didn't see this coming at all
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I think for a top 2 side where lacking a top class batsman there nothing much there bar the big guns.
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Tom, as you know I'll hope anyone scores if they are playing for England. Doesn't mean I expect a certain someone to actually score anything decent though. :)
I defo (and have been fighting that corner at work with people who think we are world beaters) think we over rate our current team. We are a decent outfit, but we are nothing special. Especially without a fully fit Swann, KP and still two youthful inexperienced batsmen in our top 6 (not that it's a bad thing to bring in new people, just that we can't expect them to hit the ground running!).
Anyway, the two young pups will show us they are the 5 and 6 for the next few years with a 200 run stand :)
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In todays cricket you have to add 5 at least to the averages,i like Bell a lot-he's got an awful lot.
It might be thou root,bairstow,maybe morgan end up on his position.
I think we will stick with compton long term so only one spot at 6 will be available...
Interesting selection after this tour i reckon
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uh oh
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Anyone else noticed Roots using an SS or am I late? CBA looking through the rest of the posts lol
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Looks like a octane to me
But in my eyes everybody is using a sareen
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the SS branding has been blanked on the edges it looked like earlier to me mate
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No that's a gm after wading through about 20 of them the other week it one of them for,sure
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In todays cricket you have to add 5 at least to the averages,i like Bell a lot-he's got an awful lot.
It might be thou root,bairstow,maybe morgan end up on his position.
I think we will stick with compton long term so only one spot at 6 will be available...
Interesting selection after this tour i reckon
I'd like them to stick with Compton. I don't think he's done anything wrong and who else is there to open? As for 6, I'd hope Root keeps that spot as well. Morgan is no test player and Root's ahead of Ron Weasley. As for Bell, can't be bothered with him. Looks good, flatters to deceive but doesn't produce the goods when you need him to.
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I'd like them to stick with Compton. I don't think he's done anything wrong and who else is there to open? As for 6, I'd hope Root keeps that spot as well. Morgan is no test player and Root's ahead of Ron Weasley. As for Bell, can't be bothered with him. Looks good, flatters to deceive but doesn't produce the goods when you need him to.
Drop Bell for "Ron Weasley" then...
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Root should stay where he is but still think that number 5 and 6 spot is open up
For me only cook,Compton,trott,kp are assured of starting now
Root has that bell starting against Australia sherminator feeling hope I wrong though
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Root at 5 and Bairstow at 6. Let Bell and Petersen fight for the 4 bearth.
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Root at 5 and Bairstow at 6. Let Bell and Petersen fight for the 4 bearth.
Basically you're saying drop Bell then ;)
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Drop Bell for "Ron Weasley" then...
I would but I also think we need some experience in the top 6 given we already have two noobs. Unfortunately it's too close to the Ashes so Bell's going to have to stay I'm afraid. IF the selectors decided to just rebuild the side (and so gamble on the ashes series) then yes, I'd sack off Bell for Bairstow and move Root to 5. KP would be kept but retired off after the second ashes series. Hopefully then Root will have done well and moved to 4, Bairstow to 5 and Taylor to 6 (if we assume they are the 3 in waiting).
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I would but I also think we need some experience in the top 6 given we already have two noobs. Unfortunately it's too close to the Ashes so Bell's going to have to stay I'm afraid. IF the selectors decided to just rebuild the side (and so gamble on the ashes series) then yes, I'd sack off Bell for Bairstow and move Root to 5. KP would be kept but retired off after the second ashes series. Hopefully then Root will have done well and moved to 4, Bairstow to 5 and Taylor to 6 (if we assume they are the 3 in waiting).
And let's not forget Eoin Morgan. Will Bell & KP out the picture he could nail down his spot as drinks carrier. All hypothetical of course
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And let's not forget Eoin Morgan. Will Bell & KP out the picture he could nail down his spot as drinks carrier. All hypothetical of course
Morgan's well off the Test side I would have thought. Who is in line as the next WK?? Prior is 31 (I think) so I'd hope we are looking already to who will take over him in 3 or 4 years (maybe giving them exposure against the likes of Zimbabwe, Bangladesh).
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Hold on Yorkshire fans your boys have hardly done anything right either root or bairstow....
The problem I see is prior is better than both root and bairstow so either get him down the order which I don't like or get somebody in who can do it.
Bell is quality no doubt about it but like root and to a lesser extent bairstow they need runs and time is running out.
A innings from any of them can change it though
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I would but I also think we need some experience in the top 6 given we already have two noobs. Unfortunately it's too close to the Ashes so Bell's going to have to stay I'm afraid. IF the selectors decided to just rebuild the side (and so gamble on the ashes series) then yes, I'd sack off Bell for Bairstow and move Root to 5. KP would be kept but retired off after the second ashes series. Hopefully then Root will have done well and moved to 4, Bairstow to 5 and Taylor to 6 (if we assume they are the 3 in waiting).
(http://i47.tinypic.com/2vbpyqs.gif)
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Prior replacement is well that another thing I think bairstow is the possibility along with a few notable others alex Davies,Buttler, and so on
If bairstow does not don the glove I see no test future for him I really don't.
Root is ok but lets not get carried away he is only a score of keeping his place but also close to getting dropped if he does not step up again soon.
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Morgan's well off the Test side I would have thought. Who is in line as the next WK?? Prior is 31 (I think) so I'd hope we are looking already to who will take over him in 3 or 4 years (maybe giving them exposure against the likes of Zimbabwe, Bangladesh).
Would it be Bairstow or Butler out of the current bunch??
Whoever it is let's pray it's not Keiswetter
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I just think its funny that when NZ were scoring runs it was because of the brand of ball being used but when England's top order gets skittled for near nothing suddenly there needs to be a complete reselection of the team.
It wasn't just England bowled bad and didn't adjust to conditions?
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Would it be Bairstow or Butler out of the current bunch??
Whoever it is let's pray it's not Keiswetter
Bairstow would be second choice right now.
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Both fit the bill but I think prior at some stage might revert to just a batsman currently he is more than good enough.
Number 4
Look over the last 5 England innings it hardly great reading bar Compton
Agree our bowling especially in the spin department has been average
You see who is 2nd choice when Somerset use there keeper for the season
I get the feeling Somerset want kieiswetter where England will want Buttler
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Hold on Yorkshire fans your boys have hardly done anything right either root or bairstow....
The problem I see is prior is better than both root and bairstow so either get him down the order which I don't like or get somebody in who can do it.
Bell is quality no doubt about it but like root and to a lesser extent bairstow they need runs and time is running out.
A innings from any of them can change it though
I'm not a Yorkie and couldn't care less what county they come from as I don't follow county cricket (no point following a team I can't get to watch due to playing). I don't think anyone on this thread is saying Root is a world beater but I don't see anyone better currently, and he's new into the side so needs a few more games before throwing him out. Bell looks quality, again though no one doubt how he looks. Bairstow needs regular games to get some form back (in fact they all do). Get them into county games before the NZ home series and some time at the crease. Stop this pampering and barely playing and get them batting/bowling. I'm sure it'll help (might be worth protecting the bowlers a little more due to injury but the batsmen can play in all the county games for sure, they don't need 'rest')
As for Number 4. England are batting poorly, ball is not swinging any more than a new ball should so I'd blame the batsmen before I start saying how good the bowling has been. (It has been better in this innings than Englands was though, barring Wagner who looks like cannon fodder)
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I just think its funny that when NZ were scoring runs it was because of the brand of ball being used but when England's top order gets skittled for near nothing suddenly there needs to be a complete reselection of the team.
It wasn't just England bowled bad and didn't adjust to conditions?
Yeah this kookaburra ball doesn't swing you know ;)
Really like watching Martin bowl, fantastic flight. A hint of Tufnell about his action
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For flips sake all this boredom has made me buy another set of pads
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Procricketer2001 bloke I not on about you fella not everything is about you
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I just think its funny that when NZ were scoring runs it was because of the brand of ball being used but when England's top order gets skittled for near nothing suddenly there needs to be a complete reselection of the team.
It wasn't just England bowled bad and didn't adjust to conditions?
It's not like these are things people are saying on the back of a bad show. People have been saying Bottle Job Bell needs to go for ages.
And on England bowling poorly that is the case no doubt. Monty was ineffective and I personally think Broad and Finn bowl too similarly, meaning the attack looked blunt and, dare I say it, unbalanced.
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I think that is why Bresnan was in front of Finn in the pecking order.
He never totally recovered from his op last yr though.
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As for Number 4. England are batting poorly, ball is not swinging any more than a new ball should so I'd blame the batsmen before I start saying how good the bowling has been. (It has been better in this innings than Englands was though, barring Wagner who looks like cannon fodder)
Clearly the commentators disagree about the ball not swinging considering they just mentioned how well NZ have the ball swinging haha
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Clearly the commentators disagree about the ball not swinging considering they just mentioned how well NZ have the ball swinging haha
Read it again please. At no point does it say 'the ball isn't swinging'.. It say's it's not swinging any more than you'd expect a new ball to swing.
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Brennan never really got his rhythm back after his op so didn't look the same player. Lets hope he finds form again when he recovers this time and replaces Broad in the side.
Am I the only one who wants to see Treadwell play ahead of Monty until Swanny returns?
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It's not like these are things people are saying on the back of a bad show. People have been saying Bottle Job Bell needs to go for ages.
And on England bowling poorly that is the case no doubt. Monty was ineffective and I personally think Broad and Finn bowl too similarly, meaning the attack looked blunt and, dare I say it, unbalanced.
Cameron I was more making the point that everyone was blaming the kookaburra ball for NZ scoring runs which clearly this isn't the case
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Run rate of under 2.00, game not really going anywhere... Zzzz!
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Not for England at the moment anyway ;)
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Cameron I was more making the point that everyone was blaming the kookaburra ball for NZ scoring runs which clearly this isn't the case
Sorry if I misinterpreted your post mate, I got carried away when I saw the words "complete reselection of the team" :D
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Run rate of under 2.00
It's a test match and we are fighting to stay in the game. Although it is boring to watch I'd rather they continue at that pace and bat for another 3 sessions than fall over in 1 session going at 4 an over and then end up with 2+ days to bat it out for the draw.
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Martin is bowling well
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Martin is bowling well
He has been impressive. Flight, guile and control. Showing up Panasar that's for sure. A little batting question on left arm spin from around the wicket... I've decided this winter that when I come up against a leftie spinner going around the wicket I'm going to bat on off stump. The idea being it means anything just outside off stump is a drive and anything on middle to off is a drive also. Anything wider down towards leg is easy pickings off my legs.
Anyone know or think there will be a obvious flaw with that compared to just staying on middle stump guard?? Any left arm spinners in the house???
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Prior replacement is well that another thing I think bairstow is the possibility along with a few notable others alex Davies,Buttler, and so on
If bairstow does not don the glove I see no test future for him I really don't.
I'm going to throw Sam Billings from Kent as a possible replacement for Prior. Partof me says that as a Kent fan, but mainly asi think he is class especially for his age. Mike Atherton really rates the kid and seeing him quite a few times last year the boy is a real talent.
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Back to the present rubbish I am watching, as rubbish as England have beenNZ bowling department has generally been very good all tour and I would say have matched our star studded bowling line up very very well.
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Pro
If your batting on off stump look out for the arm ball mate and drift mate
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He has been impressive. Flight, guile and control. Showing up Panasar that's for sure. A little batting question on left arm spin from around the wicket... I've decided this winter that when I come up against a leftie spinner going around the wicket I'm going to bat on off stump. The idea being it means anything just outside off stump is a drive and anything on middle to off is a drive also. Anything wider down towards leg is easy pickings off my legs.
Anyone know or think there will be a obvious flaw with that compared to just staying on middle stump guard?? Any left arm spinners in the house???
I'd be looking to york you as quick as I could on middle + off, or working on the arm ball as Dave says, dragging you across and then putting one quick full and straight. I've had people do it to me before, just means you have to stick it on a good length and vary your line, or try and drag people out of the crease.
EDIT: Of course no matter where you'd be batting, I'd try and work out a plan for you, and sometimes they work, sometimes they don't, you should try a few things and see if they suit you, and if so stick to them :)
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Excellent session from NZ, good bowling and very impressive captaincy regarding the field settings. Makes a refreshing change to see some imagination after the generic 2 slips 1 gully that England use regardless of the situation
Maybe this Hesson chap has got the right man after all
England massive underdogs now. Big turn around from a month ago when most were predicting a 3-0 England series win. Hats off to NZ
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It's a test match and we are fighting to stay in the game. Although it is boring to watch I'd rather they continue at that pace and bat for another 3 sessions than fall over in 1 session going at 4 an over and then end up with 2+ days to bat it out for the draw.
I never said that this wasn't the correct way to go about it, I just said that it wasn't very entertaining viewing as a spectator. Apart from day 1 everybody seems to struggle to get any runs flowing, New Zealand have had a great start to the day - top session. I highly doubt that an England win is possible from the current position we are in.
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I never said that this wasn't the correct way to go about it, I just said that it wasn't very entertaining viewing as a spectator. Apart from day 1 everybody seems to struggle to get any runs flowing, New Zealand have had a great start to the day - top session. I highly doubt that an England win is possible from the current position we are in.
apologies. Miss-read your post. It is boring but necessary. It's why people don't like draw cricket at low levels because of turgid games but it's bringing out some skills of the England lower order that they don't normally play like (ie Prior at a SR of 22)
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I would really like Root to dig in and get himself the score that everybody feels he needs at the moment. Is there any hope of an English win in this test?
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Anybody get a feeling Fraser and Wilis don't get on.
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Anybody get a feeling Fraser and Wilis don't get on.
There's a few dirty glances :)
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No that's a gm after wading through about 20 of them the other week it one of them for,sure
I paused it and you can see where the TON branding has been, the one he's using today is an SS for sure bud.
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It wasn't just me imagining things :D
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It wasn't just me imagining things :D
Good spots!
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Root looks so young.. Looks like he should be playing u/15's
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It wasn't just me imagining things :D
It's a far better effort than Bopara.
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Well they must have done a good copy because the shape is very much gm
Anything is possible where Perkins when you need him...
Naughty boy
Agree there something there
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Tried to print screen it when I spotted it, but I was a little to late :/!
Dam not having sky/sky+
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I just seen scarring I guess he picked it up in India brilliant spot Tom.
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I just seen scarring I guess he picked it up in India brilliant spot Tom.
Can you scrape the branding off? Begs the question how much time does he have to be messing around with his bat!?!?
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No mate it doesn't scrap off it only seems on one edge so jury still out.
They will be throwing bats at players ala world,cup and what not but it is a gunn and Moore shape yet there scaring
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it looked to me as if it had been coloured in with tipex or something similar.
Trying to get a decent print screen of it, but there not showing us his effing bat!
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It would still leave the indentations funny the cricket I Imagine loads of beevers with the sky plus remote on the ready
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it looked to me as if it had been coloured in with tipex or something similar.
Trying to get a decent print screen of it, but there not showing us his effing bat!
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g436/Alex_Sparrow/image-19.jpg)
This is my best effort lads
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Best bats in the world can't blame him think mr root,might be getting a phone call
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Best bats in the world can't blame him
Prior is probably still using the batch he got from India also.
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Good work fella, he's done a cracking job of disguising it mind.
can barely tell unless it's someone off here looking lol
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Why oh why did Prior play that shot when the new ball nearly due the plonker
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Broad with a brain dead shot as well! Why am I awake watching this shower!
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England pressing the self destruct button again... Does this mean NZ are better than India, with England having won the test series there?
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England pressing the self destruct button again... Does this mean NZ are better than India, with England having won the test series there?
That is a very good question Tim, do you think it would have been different with Swann in the side?
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I just think NZ have gained a little confidence and they all seem to have their heads up and are playing confident cricket. Amazing what confidence does..
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Definitely mate, Boult's bowled well, attack of the left armers. Can't understand why he hasn't stuck us back in
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I think Boult, Southee & Martin all bowled extremely well.. England have started well with the ball
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I think New Zealand have done well in very limiting conditions - basically put out low, slow, lifeless decks and looked to play attritional cricket. Quite impressed with tehir bowling optionsmind you - the three lads in this game have done well and Bracewell and McGlenahanare good options to boot.
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... I've decided this winter that when I come up against a leftie spinner going around the wicket I'm going to bat on off stump. The idea being it means anything just outside off stump is a drive and anything on middle to off is a drive also. Anything wider down towards leg is easy pickings off my legs.
Anyone know or think there will be a obvious flaw with that compared to just staying on middle stump guard?? Any left arm spinners in the house???
Speaking as an ex SLA myself, the biggest flaw in the plan is that lots of lefties don't turn it that much, and your LBW risk is much increased if they consistently put it on off stump. I'd also bowl flatter and shorter if you are on the drive and a few yorkers on middle and leg - they might go for runs, but if you miss, I hit.
That said - these days I wouldn't be able to get it up the other end bowling SLA to you.
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That bat of fultons is sure singing
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I've been rather impressed by 2 meter Peter.
He looked rather ordinary in his Test career prior to this series.
Yes the pitches might've suited him, but it's good to see a 34 year old still have the desire to succeed at Test cricket.
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I've been rather impressed by 2 meter Peter.
He looked rather ordinary in his Test career prior to this series.
Yes the pitches might've suited him, but it's good to see a 34 year old still have the desire to succeed at Test cricket.
I don't remember him from before but he's look solid enough. Todays he's showing his aggressive side too :) Fair play to him, can't be easy for a 34yr old to come in etc knowing that he'll be dropped sooner rather than later due to age.
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I don't remember him from before but he's look solid enough. Todays he's showing his aggressive side too :) Fair play to him, can't be easy for a 34yr old to come in etc knowing that he'll be dropped sooner rather than later due to age.
I'm not sure how successful his whipping to leg will be in early May in England but its certainly a fine comeback.
To be honest after the horror show Guptill had in recent times, an opener getting into double figures is a success for the Black Caps!
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I don't remember him from before but he's look solid enough. Todays he's showing his aggressive side too :) Fair play to him, can't be easy for a 34yr old to come in etc knowing that he'll be dropped sooner rather than later due to age.
No one gets dropped due to age. If you score big runs you are old enough or young enough. Fulton has booked himself at least 2 more Test matches here and if he does well in England whos to say he can't go on scoring runs till he reaches the age of a Hussey or Tendulkar. Well batted, now showing another side to his game and pushing the rate along
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This is getting embarrassing for england. getting smacked all around the park. england are in danger of losing the series here
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Wait till there juice in the wicket and the ball zipping around.
I think he will struggle to score 50 in a innings in England but you can't knock him currently
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McCullum tearing England a new one at the moment. His one day skills are perfect for this point in the match - England are looking increasingly deject in the field :(
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Wait till there juice in the wicket and the ball zipping around.
I think he will struggle to score 50 in a innings in England but you can't knock him currently
I'm sorry but that's a little unfair.
Fulton's scoring runs on the pitches provided.
He's technically limited, but the English seamers have been ordinary in this series, apart from Broad at times who's been pretty decent.
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If Swann doesn't recovery fully from the elbow issues, then England will be concerned.
Panesar has returned to the one dimensional bowler Shane Warne once labelled him...
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He record suggests it not unfair at all.
We shall see mate.
Agree England have been ordinary
You don't know a bloke called jeet do your Gerry
Every dog has his day
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If Swann doesn't recovery fully from the elbow issues, then England will be concerned.
Panesar has returned to the one dimensional bowler Shane Warne once labelled him...
On the evidence of this series I'm thinking Treadwell should be given a go in the home series just in case Swanny isn't fit for the ashes
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He record suggests it not unfair at all.
We shall see mate.
Agree England have been ordinary
You don't know a bloke called jeet do your Gerry
Every dog has his day
I can't say I ever heard off a name like that before PC.
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If Swann doesn't recovery fully from the elbow issues, then England will be concerned.
Panesar has returned to the one dimensional bowler Shane Warne once labelled him...
Panesar had always been a one dimensional bowler. He hasn't changed much atall. If the pitch doesn't suit him he is quite ineffective. It's not as if he has forgotten how to bowl a doosra all of a sudden
He didn't bowl much different in India to here just had much more assistance from the surfaces. He will never change his style
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On the evidence of this series I'm thinking Treadwell should be given a go in the home series just in case Swanny isn't fit for the ashes
I was thinking along the same line.
Tredwell looked a good bowler in the ODIs against the Indians. Plus he's a good fielder and bats a little.
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Panesar had always been a one dimensional bowler. He hasn't changed much atall. If the pitch doesn't suit him he is quite ineffective. It's not as if he has forgotten how to bowl a doosra all of a sudden
He didn't bowl much different in India to here just had much more assistance from the surfaces. He will never change his style
He kinda reminds me off Harbhajan Singh lol
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2 meter Peter had to wait 7 years after his Test debut to bag a Test ton and he's gone and bagged two in 4 days!
Well played Mr Fulton
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2 meter Peter had to wait 7 years after his Test debut to bag a Test ton and he's gone and bagged two in 4 days!
Well played Mr Fulton
Fair play to him, quality knock
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Fair play to him must be the stadium but the bats sound fantastic I remember the sound like that at the mcg
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2 meter Peter had to wait 7 years after his Test debut to bag a Test ton and he's gone and bagged two in 4 days!
Well played Mr Fulton
Outstanding double for the big man, congrats to him.
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Got to enjoy the success of players like Fulton when it comes - I think, patriality aside, that most of us would accept that he is technically limited and fully deserving of the journeyman tag that has been foist upon him - his first ton was almost an FU to the world, a statement that he was damn well going to get one beforehe retired whatever amount of time it took, this one was more spontaneous and therefore more exciting to watch. England, for the third time in recent years, seem guilty of believing that they had suddenly "made it" and taking lesser opposition lightly as a result.
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I read today that if England lose this test then India go up to second on the test rankings...
Mental
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You say it's mental, but if you don't perform then you deserve to go down in the rankings!
Doesn't matter if we beat India on their home turf....they have improved and we have performed poorly since then.
Therefore why should we deserve to stay 2nd in the rankings?
If we give ourselves a kick and perform in Summer, then no doubt we will move up again. But only if we perform and deserve it!
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While some folks on here are obviously not huge fans of Stuart Broad I've always been prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, but after seeing his petulant, tantrums over the past few days they've really put me off big time.
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Broad is a good bowler, However he seems to sulk when things do not go his way. Also what is up with his batting, first innings they needed some stability and careful batting but he batted without a care in the world.
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I don't believe we deserve anything after the way we have performed and New Zealand deserve everything they get they have been by far the better team. Do you think India would've performed better than England against New Zealand? The fact that India, a team that were completely abliterated by England home and away and Australia away will be 2nd in the rankings.
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we dont have any right to win matches just by turning up, credit where it's due-and that's to the New Zealanders,they've played better than us and they've got nothing to lose. What worries me is the body language last night,we seemed to give up and that's not acceptable.
the pitches have been a bit unusual but NZ seem to swing it and seam it more than us.
Interesting most of the TV and media are concentrating on our bowling(which has been toothless) but it's the batsmen that have under performed for ages.
it's always the bowlers that get blamed,batsmen seem to be protected
and im speaking as a batsman...a club one thou :)
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I think the batsmen are to blame again - not enough consistent runs in the first innings, that is what causes pressure. You can't blame the bowlers, who have been solid for a long time.
My biggest grip is that in all great teams (which ours is not, mearly a good team regardless of the result tonight) have at least one stroke player in the top 3, we have 3 blockers.
The West Indies had Dessie, Gordon with Viv at 3, the Aussies had Slats or Hayden with Ponting at three. These guys will make a statement at the top of the order. Our team is three blockers then three hitters then prior. This is uneaven. I am not going to debate the players, who I think are the best we have (Bell included, sorry Manormanic ;)) But if we have Trott at three and KP at 4 as immovable objects in the order, then one of Bell or Root needs to be opening with a calmer player, like Compton in at 5, this will make the balance of our batting order more sensible for me.
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I am starting to wonder whether the number of tours is having an impact, and primarily on the psyche. The India tour was tough, however you look at it and England have often looked like they really don't want to be in NZ. While that's the wrong attitude, I can understand why they might be feeling that way.
NZ have looked better and hungrier throughout.
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good points Buzz and Tim, back in the day....yes the Windies had players who could take the game away from the oppo,same with the Aussies in their prime.
cook,compton and trott are much the same methods.
Trotty we have come to rely on so much thou,and what a good job he does,and Cook.
ive always thought KP should bat 3-then if you look at or order it fits a bit more together.
And yes I think also our players are tired,India was an unbelievable result that took it's toll.
We have also missed Swanny to get things going a bit....
But if we lose tonight NZ will have deserved a win.
A loss might get some questions going too, Flower has never been afraid to make changes if required
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actually what about cook and trott to open?
that i think makes the batting order easier to sort
KP 3.....
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Personally I think it is a big ask for KP to bat at 3.
I haven't seen any of the matches so far, but while any tour would be tough after India, they are being paid a large amount of money to play cricket for their country. I only have limited sympathy, their careers are relatively short in the general scheme of things and they should be professional, not listless.
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I actually believe that KP and Bell should be 5/6 in the batting order. Both have great records in those spots and combined with Prior they could do what they do best, attack the bowling. I'm not totally convinced by Compton, both hundreds were on very flat decks, but that's not his fault. I think losing Strauss has actually caused some problems in the top order and we still haven't solved losing Collingwood either. Both of those guys could block or attack depending on the situation and were superb close catchers.
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NZ have adapted better to the conditions, even of they are their own conditions!
England have shown that they can adapt, as they did well in India. But I reckon they saw NZ as an easy tour so I'm hoping it will give us a kick we need for Summer! Will be interested to see how we perform in May.
I would personally have Cook, Root, Trott, KP, Compton, Bell, Prior, etc.
Either that or move Bell to open with Cook.
If Trott were to open with Cook then I think that Root would be a better call at 3 and leave KP at 4. Then Bell and Compton.
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can't believe Buzz thinks of Root as a hitter - he CAN hit, but his natural game is closer to Trott's!
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I haven't seen that much of him - but he seems to hit the ball more than Compton and Trott!
Personally I would like to see Bell open as he has been a relative success at ODI level and I am not convinced 5 is a great position for him...
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Are we really going to go over the Bell debate again though?
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I feel that at this moment in time, we have the right 6 (will see how this goes though and whether KP will recover) but like Buzz, I am not 100% sure whether the order is correct?
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Are we really going to go over the Bell debate again though?
nope we don't need to. He is one of the best six English qualified batsmen in the country still playing the game.
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Anyone else tempted to put money on a draw with Monty and Jimmy last men at the crease??
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Not with 4 down already!!!
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Personally I would like to see Bell open
My worst nightmare!! The guy isn't up to it, you'll see in the next two ashes series!
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My worst nightmare!! The guy isn't up to it, you'll see in the next two ashes series!
As much as I want him to score runs for England when it matters (something he's not achieved up to now) there's a part of me that wants him to do so horrendously he never plays again!
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Not with 4 down already!!!
any chance of rain?
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any chance of rain?
Only if the rain dances and prayers of 11 Englishmen dressed in white are answered I think
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Not a cloud in the sky, weather certainly won't play a part today.
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As much as I want him to score runs for England when it matters (something he's not achieved up to now) there's a part of me that wants him to do so horrendously he never plays again!
1st test of the series vs South Africa , comes in at 117-3 and scores 199 did that matter?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/296909.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/296909.html)
2nd test vs India 2nd innings England trail by 67, comes in at 6-1 and scores 159 did that matter?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/474473.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/474473.html)
4th test vs India 2nd innings comes in at 94-3 and scores a Hundred with Trott to secure the series, did that matter?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/565809.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/565809.html)
2nd test vs Pakistan comes in at 107-3 after they score 462 top scores with 115 to ensure 1st innings parity, did that matter?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/226350.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/226350.html)
1st test vs Sri Lanka, scores 103 to take England past Sri Lanka's score who are then bowled out on a rain sodden final day, did that matter?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/474463.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/474463.html)
3rd test vs South Africa 2nd innings top scores with 78 to help England draw the game, did that matter?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/387572.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/387572.html)
1st test vs Australia top scores in the first innings after coming in at 125-4 before running out of partners, did that matter?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/387572.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/387572.html)
5th test vs Australia top scores in the first innings in the match that England regained the Ashes, did that matter?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/345974.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/345974.html)
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Okay point taken, he's made 8 meaningful contributions in 144 innings, my mistake...
How many of his centuries has he scored without somebody else bringing theirs up 1st?
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Who would you pick, that you can guarantee will score runs! And I can guarantee you that England would not have got to 1 in the world if No-one from 1-4 had got a century before Bell did.
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Who would you pick, that you can guarantee will score runs! And I can guarantee you that England would not have got to 1 in the world if No-one from 1-4 had got a century before Bell did.
You can't guarantee anyone will score runs, but you can almost guarantee Bell will crack under pressure
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1st test of the series vs South Africa , comes in at 117-3 and scores 199 did that matter?
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/296909.html[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/296909.html[/url])
2nd test vs India 2nd innings England trail by 67, comes in at 6-1 and scores 159 did that matter?
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/474473.html[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/474473.html[/url])
4th test vs India 2nd innings comes in at 94-3 and scores a Hundred with Trott to secure the series, did that matter?
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/565809.html[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/565809.html[/url])
2nd test vs Pakistan comes in at 107-3 after they score 462 top scores with 115 to ensure 1st innings parity, did that matter?
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/226350.html[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/226350.html[/url])
1st test vs Sri Lanka, scores 103 to take England past Sri Lanka's score who are then bowled out on a rain sodden final day, did that matter?
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/474463.html[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/474463.html[/url])
3rd test vs South Africa 2nd innings top scores with 78 to help England draw the game, did that matter?
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/387572.html[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/387572.html[/url])
1st test vs Australia top scores in the first innings after coming in at 125-4 before running out of partners, did that matter?
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/387572.html[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/387572.html[/url])
5th test vs Australia top scores in the first innings in the match that England regained the Ashes, did that matter?
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/345974.html[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/345974.html[/url])
But mate, all that proves is that Bell can score runs. Any batsman can score runs, but can any batsman score 100 when every other batsman makes ducks? Thats the only way Bell can be seen as any good, is if Bell scores 100 and England score 100. Maybe I should play for England, I once scored 104 in a total of 122ao
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Well this could go on for hours, I'm going to leave it there, I have my opinion and you have stats to prove me wrong haha
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Agree, without KP England have 2 players that score runs on a regular basis when the team are under the pump. Cook and Trott are the only 2 "chips down" batman. The others are good batsman when things are going well for the team.
I know England wont want to move Prior up the order but he is currently looking a much better bet than Bell and Bairstow.
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I reckon there are only as many occasions that KP has done it as Bell has. Don't think he's dug England out of a hole that many times
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Nothing like a good bell debate to wake up the forum!
Look at it from another angle,tonight if root and bairstow,or root especially,gets us out of the hole we have helped to dig(negative cricket)
How much will Root's stock rise with the England management?
He's been tracked and ear marked for a regular spot for a while...
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Okay point taken, he's made 8 meaningful contributions in 144 innings, my mistake...
How many of his centuries has he scored without somebody else bringing theirs up 1st?
Does it make a difference if someone had scored 99 before him or 100? does that 1 run change a Bell innings from being easy to acceptable? What about if it was 93 or 84?
Has I have said before Bell has spent a large chunk of his career coming in behind Strauss, Cook and KP, three of Englands top six hundred makers of all time. There is a fair chance then that someone will have scored a hundred before him with those 3 in the team.
In answer to your question I have counted 4 instances of Bell reaching three figures before somone else does, incidently that is the same number as Gilchrist. Does that mean Gilchrist is only capeable when he has got runs on the board?
I presume you also feel that Compton hasn't achieved anything as both of his hundreds came after someone else had scored one and considering he opens the batting surely he should be getting there first?
If you are going to judge Bell by this irrelevant statistic you have to apply it to everyone else.
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I reckon there are only as many occasions that KP has done it as Bell has. Don't think he's dug England out of a hole that many times
He did win England the ashes in 2005 for the first time in over 20 years with his hundred at the oval so that is good enough for me.
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We're going to save it!
My left testicle is tingling, and that normally preceeds a good thing happening, so I think we'll save it - Prior and Root the heroes.
Mark my words - you can bank on Brucie!
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Nothing like a good bell debate to wake up the forum!
Look at it from another angle,tonight if root and bairstow,or root especially,gets us out of the hole we have helped to dig(negative cricket)
How much will Root's stock rise with the England management?
He's been tracked and ear marked for a regular spot for a while...
I going to go on record say root is not as good as people say and I doubt he ever will be...
I could be very wrong but doubt it
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If you are going to judge Bell by this irrelevant statistic you have to apply it to everyone else.
Irrelevant statistics it is then, drop Bell for KP when he returns, move Steve Finn up to number 3 where his average is higher than Trott's, everyone else moves down a place in the batting order, problem solved ;)
And I had already said I was going to leave this, I have my opinion and you have stats to prove me wrong. Lets agree to disagree and end the discussion here :)
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My theory is this..
Bar
Compton
Cook
Kp
Prior
No other English batsman deserves his place in the team currently...
Everybody can coo over Root but he has done nothing yet at all he has not proved he is good enough at first class level never mind test level. Bairstow will never hold down a spot unless he takes the gloves and bats at 7
None of the others deserve a place either...
My opinion may be a crap one just a thought thought though
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Fine can we both agree though that Williamson has got a very suspect action :o
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My theory is this..
Bar
Compton
Cook
Kp
Prior
No other English batsman deserves his place in the team currently...
Everybody can coo over Root but he has done nothing yet at all he has not proved he is good enough at first class level never mind test level. Bairstow will never hold down a spot unless he takes the gloves and bats at 7
None of the others deserve a place either...
My opinion may be a crap one just a thought thought though
You can't take First Class stuff as an indicator. If so, we would never have picked Vaughan, Trescothick, Collingwood, and even some of the bowlers. He's proved himself a talented player in FC cricket anyway, his last couple of seasons have been excellent. The 222* out of 350/9 against a decent Hampshire attack should be an indicator of his ability. I think you're off the mark with your statement saying he's not as good as people think, nor will he ever be. People are excited about him not because of his batting in particular, but his grit, and his cricketing brain. If people stop putting undue pressure on him, he might prove his ability and temperament even more.
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Being english, he's going to have to get used to pressure. There'll be calls to drop him if he doesn't save the test.
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He 22 not 17 what do you expect from test cricket he needs to start doing it.
Why not drop him if he fails my only worry for who there hardly queuing up
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Root using an ss??
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if Peter Fulton can get back to back tons then all the England players should be able to. This wicket is FLAT
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Root using an ss??
I just paused it and it looks very much to me like a chiselled off/scrubbed out BAS on the side of the bat.
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He 22 not 17 what do you expect from test cricket he needs to start doing it.
Why not drop him if he fails my only worry for who there hardly queuing up
You say it like he's failed repeatedly! He's only into his fourth test match, and he's performed admirably when called upon (India, final test, to save the game). And as for queuing up, well there's Bairstow, Taylor, Alex Hales (opener but could move Compton to middle order), Gary Ballance, James Vince, Morgan, Patel, or indeed Prior, which would mean finding an all-rounder at 7... Woakes would be a decent shout. There are options, if you look. Taylor is sheer class, and has been banging on the door of selection for a couple of years now.
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(http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b444/TopSpinCricket/IMG_0458.jpg)
what do we reckon then??
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([url]http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b444/TopSpinCricket/IMG_0458.jpg[/url])
what do we reckon then??
He left school without a GCSE in woodwork ;)
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Some very harsh critics on here. Easy to talk the talk when you haven't played at test level ;)
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I was just about to mention about Roots bat, he looks like it's been embossed, but not stained as such. I couldn't make out who it was though - That completely goes against what GM say about their pros...
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You say it like he's failed repeatedly! He's only into his fourth test match, and he's performed admirably when called upon (India, final test, to save the game). And as for queuing up, well there's Bairstow, Taylor, Alex Hales (opener but could move Compton to middle order), Gary Ballance, James Vince, Morgan, Patel, or indeed Prior, which would mean finding an all-rounder at 7... Woakes would be a decent shout. There are options, if you look. Taylor is sheer class, and has been banging on the door of selection for a couple of years now.
Not failed but remember the same scrutiny Compton was under they all should be under.
That list worry's me a tad I do not see anybody outstanding James Vince is a interesting one
It interesting each county fans putting there own players in.
All great debate I hope root saves the test and starts repaying the faith people,are showing him.
Gary Ballance really?
Yes we are harsh indeed it called debating cricket..
I think it is realism 2 tests ago Root was going to take Compton place and be England opener for the next 15 years with the way people where talking...
It a debate and the England management like Root and I suspect they know a lot more than me
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As a Hampshire fan, so having seen a bit of him, I think James Vince is currently more a one day player. Definitely one to watch for the future (but I said that about Liam Dawson a few years back)
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Yes we are harsh indeed it called debating cricket..
I'm fully aware of that thanks Dave :)
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Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssss!!!! Root outa here
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we are foooooked. no way Bell will survive and Once he or Prior are out it's game over.
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Now we could be in some serious trouble, come on bell really need you now mate.
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Another lbw coming
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FFS Bell!!! Screw that flipping head on. You were very very lucky to survive that drop.
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Now flipping Ron Weasley is at it.... Jesus
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Keystone cops in the slip corden...
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Keystone cops in the slip corden...
:)
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Well these two both got away with stupid shots just before lunch, don't think I'll be staying up too late for this
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Pitch is looking flat though, type of situation Prior could stand up and become a hero. Not that drawing with New Zealand should make him a hero...
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Not sure what people's problem with Root is. In his debut test in India he made a match saving/series winning 70 odd when the rest of the batting failed. In the first couple of tests here he was run out by the cretin Bell, got one good ball and played one poor shot. In this game, he showed more gumption than the other five batsmen first time round and looked good till one slid on to him second. To me, he has done nothing but demonstrate both potential and potential class (and yes, I'd take his 70 odd in India when nooone else stoo up to be counted over Compton's tons any day).
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Its been like Piers Morgan's twitter feed on here recently, there is no middle ground we are either brilliant or the worst england have ever produced. That's the English medias fault for overhyping us for years.
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Its been like Piers Morgan's twitter fees on here recently, there is no middle ground we are either brilliant or the worst england have ever produced. That's the English medias fault for overhyping us for years.
I don't think the media hyped us up for years, under Strauss England were a top class team. But it is slightly cut throat, people are calling for Joe Root to be dropped now, but when he hits hundred after hundred at the start of the County Championship will anyone want to stick with that decision?
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The class of 2005 were labelled greats and then got demolished in 06/07 its what us English do. The Football team is an even better example.
interesting stat in the cricketer this month
Since the 2010-11 Ashes up until march 6th 2013;
Australia have played 22, won 12, lost 5
England have played 22, won 10, lost 7
and at no point has even the most confident Australian believed that they are playing anywhere near the type of standard required.
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I stood proven wrong! I guess the English media do love an Australian team when they loose!
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Dropped catches, Bails glued to the stumps, backs against the wall batting, Powerful Prior, Overturned Decisions, Missed Plumb LBW's and Stuart Broad nearly decapitates himself whilst giving the quickest DRS appeal ever...Can England do it?
Test Cricket is King
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Tense stuff, can't sleep now
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Awesome ton from Prior, rode his luck but he's stood firm.
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How lucky for Broad, bails didn't dislodged.
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Oh God! Williamson with golden arm!
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Wow.... 2 quick wickets...
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Last over... can England do it?
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And they have done it!
Not to forget terrific stuff from New Zealanders, truly unexpected.
Matt Prior is among the best fourth innings player I have ever seen from England and in world cricket at the moment. Sterling!!
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epic stuff!
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What a finish!
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I think, once again, that test cricket has once again proven why it is the greatest form of the game. Whilst a draw is supposed to be boring, I'd suggest that was anything but ;)
In the meantime, all you Bell haters should be pleased that we have a player so bad in that position, that he's only scored 17 centuries at an average of 46.45 from 85 tests. You clearly weren't watching England play between 1989 and 2003...
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absolutley, credit to Bell for the innings he played and Matt Prior who is becoming our most valuable player..
Bell is the most stylish English batsman since Gower but showed he has some grit to go with the class
whatever anyone thinks and indeed plenty of haters on this forum-he helped save a game for England.
He needed to play an innings like this and he did,you cant ask for more than that like him or hate him!
England have been out played in the series,massive credit to New Zealand-and I still think some head scratching is needed before the Ashes-not sure our batting order fits perfectly
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Well said Tim. The Bell-out brigade remind me of the so called Arsenal 'fans' calling for the head of Arsene Wenger. I can remember the dark days of Bruce Rioch as clearly as the days of Usman Afzaal and Chris Adams providing the steel in Englands middle order. Short memories some people
Although Bell didn't make the ton this time, that is irrelevant as England were never chasing the target. For the amount of balls he faced in that knock he deserves massive respect
As for Prior, just when you think he is the finished article he produces that. Unbelievable. I never thought this would be the case when he started out but I believe that he is 2nd only to Gilchrist as the best modern day keeper/batsman and the margin is not huge
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he is a better gloveman than Gilchrist, he needs to be a bit more selfish with the bat and score more hundreds, but we are splitting hairs.
we are lucky to have him.
and Bell for that matter.
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Great to see two forum favourites in Bell and Broad do the business this morning. ;)
I am more than happy to admit to some serious man love for Matt Prior right now 8)
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We're going to save it!
My left testicle is tingling, and that normally preceeds a good thing happening, so I think we'll save it - Prior and Root the heroes.
Mark my words - you can bank on Brucie!
I dont believe it, woke up this money, turned SKY Sports on ... dammit Bruce the old conkers must have been throbbing away in those final overs... incredible result!
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Well done Bell and Broad. Didn't think they had it in them but at least this is one tick on the right side of the Pro/Con list for both :)
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I've had to bandage the left one up this morning - but lets be honest, I'm a frickin' genius, and my testicles know what they are talking about!
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Fantastic stuff from England and prior especially. But to say prior is second only to gilchrist as the best keeper batman ever is a bit much and typical hype. He is only 3rd in the world at the moment in my opinion but agree he could be up there as the best England have had.
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He is only 3rd in the world at the moment in my opinion
who are the two better keeper batsmen - remembering that Sangakarra no longer keeps.
AB de Villiars is there (almost by default) and the stats say he is the best in the world currently, but who else, surely not Mr Balls of Steel Dhoni?
I didn't read anywhere on here that someone said he was the best ever.
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MS and AB ( and gillchrist) keep and bat in all forms for their country. Play in the IPL etc. I love Prior and think he should be playing all forms as well but he doesn't.
I would pick both of these above prior in a world x1
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ABDV always looks very tense when he's keeping, watch when he takes the ball standing back, seems to have very hard hands. Doesn't look a natural keeper.
Still quality though, but wondering if anyone else can see what I mean?
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AB probably got the best hands in world cricket.
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AB for me is undoubtedly the best batter in the world at the moment. Although he does play a very different role. Matt Prior definitely the best number 7 keeper batsman in the world. MS is petulant and not bothered outside of India. 1 hundred and an average of 33 is not world class IMO!
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To all the Bell haters out there - stick that in your pipe and smoke it!
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Wasn't saying he wasn't very good, just seems to have a different technique that's all.
You really think he's a better gloveman than Prior mate?
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No but that was not the question. Who is the best keeper batsman in world cricket ? AB in my opinion.
As far as pure gloveman then the best is probably not even playing international cricket.
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I don't think he's the best gloveman in the world, bt I agree with Kieron that he's got the best hands, and that gets him out of trouble a lot. He's also the best athlete which helps. His hand eye co-ordination is just unbelievable!
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What we can be sure of is there is plenty of work to do for England. Flower will know that England have been outplayed by an average NZ team on very very batsman friendly wickets. That is the thing about flower, he won't be getting carried away by a drawn series against NZ and will be working very hard to make sure they are ready for the summer tests.
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He certainly doesn't appear to hav elost the dressing room, they do need a good kicking though!
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No but that was not the question. Who is the best keeper batsman in world cricket ? AB in my opinion.
As far as pure gloveman then the best is probably not even playing international cricket.
I have to assume you are talking about Fozzy? How that bloke never got a shout is beyond me. I know his batting isn't the best, but he wins games on his own with the gloves.
I do like AB though. He had big shoes to fill and is doing a good job.
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Foster broke his arm at the wrong time, he's the best we've produced bar Russell.
AB has quite a few strings to his bow but I think what puts him above most is his earth shatteringly amazing vocal skills.
http://youtu.be/G-RSj4RXy2Y (http://youtu.be/G-RSj4RXy2Y)