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General Cricket => Latest Matches => Topic started by: smilley792 on October 05, 2015, 07:16:21 AM
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Side announced to face Pakistan A
@englandcricket: England team to face Pakistan A: Cook, Ali, Bell, Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Buttler, Rashid, Wood, Broad, Anderson. http://t.co/cP9cKZ2z2T (http://t.co/cP9cKZ2z2T)
Where is hales? Where is Taylor?
Boooooooooooooo
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In reflection that's the best 11 they have out there... I still don't think Ali is a long term fix to open, however it's more ideal for him to be there and the Rashid as the 2nd spinner
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I didn't realise they're set to bat all day, Cook must be loving it
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Moeen out, so there we go...
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bit of a surprise Hales not playing, there are only 2 warm up games I think.....
If you take the guy you would expect him to be given a go.
Rashid has got to play but i'm not sure if England long term can play 2 keepers in the same side?
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bit of a surprise Hales not playing, there are only 2 warm up games I think.....
If you take the guy you would expect him to be given a go.
Rashid has got to play but i'm not sure if England long term can play 2 keepers in the same side?
They've invested so much time and money in Buttler it's hard to imagine Bairstow ever keeping
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It's clear they are going to go with Ali to open and then probably give Hales a run starting in SA - hopefully he'll then get that series then at least the English summer.
In 40+ degree heat, the option of an extra bowler being squeezed in has to be appealing. Moeen can't open and be the No. 1 spinner consistently, but for this series, in these conditions, him opening gives us far more options.
I actually quite like the thinking. It may be a baptism of fire in SA for Hales, but you could argue that he's better suited to those conditions. He could have an absolute horror in this series against some top spinners - may as well give him his debut in conditions that he favours...
Taylor's (to quote Bob Willis) the next cab off the rank in the middle order
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They've invested so much time and money in Buttler it's hard to imagine Bairstow ever keeping
very true they have, and a brilliant talent he is.....maybe then Taylor or Bairstow and Taylor has got to be a fag paper away from getting that spot. I like Bairstow but which one of those two would play spin better in these conditions.....
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Not a fan of opening with Moeen personally (am I right thinking he has opened in Limited Overs cricket, but never first class?).
For this game I would've liked Hales to open the innings, and replace Bell with Rashid (Ali up to number 4).
I'd also like to see Taylor get a go, but it'd be harsh on Ron Weasley to drop him again.
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It's clear they are going to go with Ali to open and then probably give Hales a run starting in SA - hopefully he'll then get that series then at least the English summer.
In 40+ degree heat, the option of an extra bowler being squeezed in has to be appealing. Moeen can't open and be the No. 1 spinner consistently, but for this series, in these conditions, him opening gives us far more options.
I actually quite like the thinking. It may be a baptism of fire in SA for Hales, but you could argue that he's better suited to those conditions. He could have an absolute horror in this series against some top spinners - may as well give him his debut in conditions that he favours...
Taylor's (to quote Bob Willis) the next cab off the rank in the middle order
Steyn is going to absolutely slaughter Hales/all of them, welp
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Steyn is going to absolutely slaughter Hales/all of them, welp
Literally since his serial killer haircut.....
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Crikey! This looks turgid - 2.5 rpo against an A side. I hope this is just 1st session caution, and not a sign for the next few weeks!!!
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Literally since his serial killer haircut.....
South African Psycho??
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/Liam_Mulholland/dale3_zpszgdyt8rd.jpg) (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/Liam_Mulholland/media/dale3_zpszgdyt8rd.jpg.html)
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I was rather hoping Taylor was given a run being in good touch and all.
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Crikey! This looks turgid - 2.5 rpo against an A side. I hope this is just 1st session caution, and not a sign for the next few weeks!!!
This is the new old England, expansive and all that. Long live watching Captain Leader Legend Cooky bat for 17 hours and score 73 off 450
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Steyn is going to absolutely slaughter Hales/all of them, welp
There's every chance that'll happen. But I'd still wager a bet that most of the England batsman would rather play away in SA than away in the UAE...
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I know it's practice but surely you bat your actual intended order? Unless Broad is an absolute cannon all of a sudden.
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Ah, it's Root.
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Root swaps his bat after 11 runs scored.................
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Root swaps his bat after 11 runs scored.................
For a GM????
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Showing off the various NB ranges
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seems to be a lack of spinners in the oppo for the warm up games :)
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Roooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot
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Holding back the spinners so as not to give any practice against them, also will there be any highlights of this game on TV?
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A link to any kind of coverage would be nice. Radio? Pics? All I can find is Espns ball by ball thing.
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Don't see anything other than the occasional video on the TMS Twitter...
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How many more chances does bell get??
This may be there desired line up.
But for next game get cook and root out and put hales and Taylor in. Most impressive out of them 2 plus Ali and bell get this gig!!
Root doesn't need a warm up.
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Found some highlights.
On ecb Twitter for anyone looking.
Ali out hooking a Pakistan quick. Short ball issues in non dangerous short ball land.
Bell dropped and hen goes to spin. Looking uncomfortable.
It looks warm.
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Well, this is err, encouraging? Ah.
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I presume there is a reason we are retiring players, I get annoyed on a Sunday when this happens let alone an England game...
:)
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Two day game, let everyone have a bat and all that and just bowl a load tomorrow...
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Might be getting Ali and Bell back in later for another bat
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Jos
jos jos jos
another failure. Nothing neats a 3 ball innings while bairstow makes runs and taylor comes off an encourahing oneday series
I oresumed root retired as thisnis a 2 day warm up, and everyone wants a bat?
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Jonny B Good
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Yes, Root retired. Buttler's form is really starting to concern me. No doubting his prodigious talent but Bairstow's keeping has come on leaps and bounds since working with French and he is scoring runs reasonably consistently. Though I might be being unjustifiably harsh it was an ashes series, always difficult to score runs.
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Feels good to have the cricket back on, gives me a break from chasing the oval ball.
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Feels good to have the cricket back on, gives me a break from chasing the oval ball.
What content you watching?? Share share share
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Rashid is doing Ali's job rather well, then.
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Cook 50 and out, root Bairstow and rashid with unbeaten 50s. (Go Yorkshire)
Is less than 300 enough in a day against an A side??
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Cook 50 and out, root Bairstow and rashid with unbeaten 50s. (Go Yorkshire)
Is less than 300 enough in a day against an A side??
Junaid Khan (he conceded less than 2 an over) is not really an A side bowler though. Most touring sides struggle with new conditions, so this isn't too bad.
Still think Yasir Shah is the most underrated bowler on the planet, and is going to really test the Eng batters once the series starts.
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Junaid Khan (he conceded less than 2 an over) is not really an A side bowler though. Most touring sides struggle with new conditions, so this isn't too bad.
Still think Yasir Shah is the most underrated bowler on the planet, and is going to really test the Eng batters once the series starts.
I play with mainly Pakistani guys, that's all ive been hearing about for the last month. He's def quality.
I think us England fans are anticipating trial by spin which undid us last time-this series will prob be the same.
I think we will do better this time round, but unless we are comfortable against spin it cold be 0-3 again!
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Pakistan A 32 for 3.
Wood 1
Ali 2
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Even Bairstow's having a bowl...
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Even Bairstow's having a bowl...
I saw that, wondered if it was an espn misprint........
Must be the new Jonathan trott!
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Update: Cricinfo are seriously useless and can't tell one ginger apart from the other
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Hahahahaha. Useless espn
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England bowl first.
Pak A 2 down. Finn 7 overs 5 maidens 2 for 2.
Hales and Taylor get there chance but that will be more tomorrow.
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Bit bizarre to make Ali and Hales compete for opener like that, surely it's better to have them alongside Cook once each?
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Bit bizarre to make Ali and Hales compete for opener like that, surely it's better to have them alongside Cook once each?
Makes sense to me.
They clearly want Ali to open first up, cook got a fifty so has some form. Ali gets another game to bed in.
Hales gets a chance to out play him and put doubt in the selectors minds.
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They are going to really struggle if Hales makes a ton and Ali has another failure
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They are going to really struggle if Hales makes a ton and Ali has another failure
If he sails past 50, I wouldn't be surprised if the retire him.
Then proclaim he didn't make enough runs to out weigh Alis bowling options....
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Nah!! They simply both play -
Cook
Hales
Bell
Root
Bairstow
Ali
Stokes
Rashid
Broad
Finn
Anderson
Bats down to 8, 4 seamers and 3 spinners - awesome!!
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But they won't drop buttler or bat stokes out of the top 6.
To include both it'll be Bairstow they drop.
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I wonder if there may be some temptation to play Bairstow as a keeper in this series. That would allow one of Taylor and Hales to come in whilst keeping the six bowling options.
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The ECB's twitter and Youtube feeds both carry highlights for those wondering earlier.
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I wonder if there may be some temptation to play Bairstow as a keeper in this series. That would allow one of Taylor and Hales to come in whilst keeping the six bowling options.
exactly, I posted the other day there's an issue long term playing two keepers. I don't see much between ginge and buttler keeping wise
but as was pointed out there's a lot a backing for Buttler, he's a terrific talent but if the side is picked on form alone,or for a specific series, it could be a close call between the two of them.
I don't think the selectors would do that thou.Buttler looks like he's short on confidence at the moment and thru the Ashes.....
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Depressingly given Jos' form I think that is what will happen - someone has to make way and there is no point in playing someone who isn't scoring runs when Bairstow is a decent keeper.
I am really frustrated about Jos not scoring runs. I still maintain he is going to be a superstar
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Finny steve with 2 in first 3 balls after lunch.
Pak A 47 for 5.
Buttler should make way for Bairstow with gloves. Gives a chance to open hales and Ali at 7, or Ali open and Taylor at 5.
Stronger either way imo
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Depressingly given Jos' form I think that is what will happen - someone has to make way and there is no point in playing someone who isn't scoring runs when Bairstow is a decent keeper.
I am really frustrated about Jos not scoring runs. I still maintain he is going to be a superstar
He will be. Granted he had a poor Ashes series but he's still only played 13 matches. They've invested so much time and money in him its hard to imagine him being dropped anytime soon, which is kind of good. He's still only 25 also.
Plenty of decent keepers down the line, mind.
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Buttler has the potential, certainly - its just a question of whether he has the game - at the moment - to score test runs in anything other than optimal conditions.
Bairstow is one of our top five batsmen and will be in the team regardless - the question, given he is as good a keeper as Buttler, is whether they think Hales or Buttler will add most to the side.
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I was almost tearing my hair out when I saw the shot he got out to in the first warm up match.
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Buttler has the potential, certainly - its just a question of whether he has the game - at the moment - to score test runs in anything other than optimal conditions.
Bairstow is one of our top five batsmen and will be in the team regardless - the question, given he is as good a keeper as Buttler, is whether they think Hales or Buttler will add most to the side.
Would love to see Hales given the nod.
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I still rate Bairstow as a better keeper than Buttler.
On current form I'd "rest" Buttler, give the gloves to Bairstow, open with Hales & slot Ali into the middle order. Simples!
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I still rate Bairstow as a better keeper than Buttler.
On current form I'd "rest" Buttler, give the gloves to Bairstow, open with Hales & slot Ali into the middle order. Simples!
I still don't quite get how Hales can only play if one of Butler or Bairstow doesn't.....
The selectors decided to take Hales so for me he has to open.Whether he should be on the trip everyone will have an option on...but he is there as a specialist opener, Ali is not-he's a middle order player if ever I saw one.
Plus if Ali opens and then bats 6/7/8 against SA that means Hales comes in for his first game against the best pace attack in the world.Hardly seems fair to me and we are doing the same thing we did with Lyth in the Carribean-no chance to bed in....
maybe it's me I just think it's all a bit muddled thinking....
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I agree
whoever opens here has to open in SA as will be slightly easier to open here (Our trouble is usually when the spinners come on)
I like Ali but he has shown he cant handle the short ball and I can't see steyn morkel and co pitching much upto him
Give it to Hales to try or try to find someone to open
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It looks pretty pointless having 4 seamers in the side anyway - so that could make a space for someone.
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It looks pretty pointless having 4 seamers in the side anyway - so that could make a space for someone.
yep agree......it will be the twirly stuff after the seamers have got the shine off the ball all day long
There's no way Ali is going to open against SA, he would get peppered and can't handle the real quick stuff.Great player in the middle and useful spinner but never an opener
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I still don't quite get how Hales can only play if one of Butler or Bairstow doesn't.....
The selectors decided to take Hales so for me he has to open.Whether he should be on the trip everyone will have an option on...but he is there as a specialist opener, Ali is not-he's a middle order player if ever I saw one.
Plus if Ali opens and then bats 6/7/8 against SA that means Hales comes in for his first game against the best pace attack in the world.Hardly seems fair to me and we are doing the same thing we did with Lyth in the Carribean-no chance to bed in....
maybe it's me I just think it's all a bit muddled thinking....
Because there's only 11 spaces in the team. Buttler's form is a worry and Bairstow was last in (and is yet to make a ton, so could be shafted again).
The only other potential opening would be Bell's slot, but he seems indispensable for some reason.
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Errrrrr...
Cook
Hales
Bell
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
That's a very simple way of playing them both that retains the same balance the test side has had for a while now. Why on earth do we need to drop a batsman if we want to play two spinners? Don't see any value added in having 6 bowlers in the side, there's only 90 overs in a day after all. Moeen is no more a test opener than Stuart Broad is (in fact they're surprisingly similar batsmen when you think about it...)
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Yep..just looking at that seems the right team to play.
Yes its hot but theres enough bowlers there and if you count Roooot that is 6.
right who is up for a selectors job? Haha :)
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Hales as a test match opener has a hint of desperation about it and Ali has already shown he's not a test opener.
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Hales as a test match opener has a hint of desperation about it and Ali has already shown he's not a test opener.
You maybe right but Hales has been picked to be on the trip to do that job surely?
Who else would you open with from the squad?
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I think it would be nice to get Finn in there somewhere!
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I think it would be nice to get Finn in there somewhere!
Opening?? Everyone else seems to be getting a go ;)
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Opening?? Everyone else seems to be getting a go ;)
Haha thats quality!
Strap the pads on big fella your first up
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How much of effect do you think Mahela Jayawardene can have on players? I feel at international cricket, its very hard to coach someone who has played for so long (such as Ian Bell).
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Well that didn't go well.
Ali out for 7 runs of the edge
Hales out for 9, runs of the edge
Taylor just inside edged past leg stump to get off the mark.....
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I think it would be nice to get Finn in there somewhere!
Open!! Hales and Ali can't obviously
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Not hardly the best of impressions from either of them this morning...
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Well that didn't go well.
Ali out for 7 runs of the edge
Hales out for 9, runs of the edge
Taylor just inside edged past leg stump to get off the mark.....
Worth noting Hales came in at 3?
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How much of effect do you think Mahela Jayawardene can have on players? I feel at international cricket, its very hard to coach someone who has played for so long (such as Ian Bell).
I don't expect Bell is the target audience. And I'm not sure the role of Mahela (Colly later) is so much to 'coach' but to mentor as the role name suggests, more giving hints and tips and being a mental coach, as oppose to coaching their overall game, which is Bayliss/Farbrace's job.
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Worth noting Hales came in at 3?
No he didn't, espn also claimed Bairstow bowled other day. #dontbelieveeverythingontheInternet
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According to sky he came in at 3?
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Who gives a sh*t? He didn't get any runs.
Bell to open, Moeen in the middle order, Hales making the Daiquiris
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if you look on getty images it looks liek Ali and Hales opened
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Taylor and Bell steadying the ship
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Ali and Hales opened Moheen faced 64 balls and Hales 13.
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Ali is a very good mid-order batsman who can bowl very well - he seems to be turning into a true allrounder! So he should not be opening at International level.
Hales can open - but is he simply going through a patch of poor form or is he not good enough at International Test level? So the selectors have got to stop ponsing around swapping and changing, and either play Hales for a few Tests t see if it is form or quality that I letting him down! If it's quality then look at a proper alternative, rather than trying Ali and others!!
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No he didn't, espn also claimed Bairstow bowled other day. #dontbelieveeverythingontheInternet
You'll never believe where I read it haha!
ECB on Facebook have a photo of Hales and Ali opening!
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Ali has shown he can bat as a test match No 8 and is hopeless at the top of the order also he struggles against the short stuff.
Hales is a one day opening pinch hitter at the top of the order he's on the tour to show if he has the skills to open in test matches probably because theirs no one else around the Counties worth giving a go hope he's given a run in the side and does well but opening is a specialist position.
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Everyone arguing over Ali and Hales when we are missing another decent display from Taylor. Proving he can really cut it at this level and has again come in to bat with the side under pressure and steadied the ship. Hope it doesn't go under the radar with the selectors. Lets build the team around a class middle order (incl Ali who'd id have down at 7/8)
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My selection would be:
Cook
Bell
Taylor
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Rashid
Broad / Finn
Anderson
Bit of flexibility there is you fancy playing Patel as another spinner or Finn as 4th seamer as Buttler can be dropped if this is the case!
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My selection would be:
Cook
Bell
Taylor
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Rashid
Broad / Finn
Anderson
Bit of flexibility there is you fancy playing Patel as another spinner or Finn as 4th seamer as Buttler can be dropped if this is the case!
@petehosk Who would have keeping in that side ?
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@petehosk Who would have keeping in that side ?
Finn ;)
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Taylor didn't even get a fifty before retiring.
Stokes gets a duck.
Hales and Ali may get another go if Pakistan bowl well!
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Do we keep the faith with Stokes or is this his 2nd lean patch we're seeing?
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@petehosk Who would have keeping in that side ?
Errm, lol!
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Stokes will always struggle against spin. Don't see him getting many runs on the subcontinent
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Do we keep the faith with Stokes or is this his 2nd lean patch we're seeing?
The problem is that when he's not batting well, he still takes wickets with the ball!! Tough call with Finn taking wickets! But iif Stokes isn't scoring runs, there is a case for replacing him for Finn, as Finn is the stronger bowler!
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Wow lower middle order being blown away again, Butler gone for a scratchy 8 of 28 and now Bairstow gone first baller "Quack Quack"
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at least there are some positives to take out of this, taylor batting well and bell has a few runs. however this opening spot is a worry, personally id give hales a go and see how he goes, after all would any of us leave him out of the T20 side even considering his first knock on that ended in a second ball duck? as did his domestic t20 innings, yeah i get that its a completely different form but it shows that a bad start doesnt mean his career will be like that... moeen for me just isnt an opener!! i think if stokes is still struggling them moeen is good enough to bat up the order at five or six which means space for an extra bowler and a similar balannce in the side
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I despair for the middle order
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Well this isn't looking good.
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Pretty simple for me, bairstow keeps butler out. You have to play Finn in this form. As for opening I think hales, if your going to be opening him SA Then surly he needs some time at the crease.
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Ali is back in.
Can tell there who England wants to succeed.
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im assuming hales wont get the chances ali is... why don't they just announce who is obviously the preferred choice to partner cook?
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Cook
Bell
Taylor
Root
Bairstow
Ali
Butler
Rashid
Broad
Finn
Anderson
I think the above is what is needed in the UAE. Worry about South Africa after this series
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with butler coming back out as well its pretty nailed on as ali opening and jos keeping then
shame as I think hales deserves a run to see what he can do as ali will be horribly found out in SA if he opens
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Side has been picked a long time ago. He two warm up matches mean zip.
Different coaches, same old England.
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Can't remember the last time a team had batsmen bat twice in a innings even if it's a warm up. Even cricinfo don't know how to score it
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Ali gone again. And Taylor walks out.
Hales not looking like he will get a second bat.
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England overseas tours summed up in one photo
(http://p.imgci.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/223500/223579.3.jpg)
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You can't have the ginger kid rocking orange gear! No wonder he's struggling. Poor lad.
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Can't remember the last time a team had batsmen bat twice in a innings even if it's a warm up. Even cricinfo don't know how to score it
i'm getting very confused trying to follow cricinfo's feed - whole things gone tits up
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Buttler playing reverse sweeps.
My opinion is that his odi game is far superior to test, and if he's gonna succeed at test a more attacking styler from him will be needed. He's not a dig in player.
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You can't have the ginger kid rocking orange gear! No wonder he's struggling. Poor lad.
I personally think it looks quite good.
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Buttler playing reverse sweeps.
My opinion is that his odi game is far superior to test, and if he's gonna succeed at test a more attacking styler from him will be needed. He's not a dig in player.
Agreed. There is no point in reigning him for test matches. My only fear is that the 'that'snottestcricket' brigade will crucify him for it.
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All over as Taylor is out lbw.
Hales to carry the drinks all tour.........
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why send jimmy in and not hales again, baffling
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why send jimmy in and not hales again, baffling
They didn't, scorecard says hey did but they shook hands and went off as Taylor was out.
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Not nightwatchman practice for SA?
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They didn't, scorecard says hey did but they shook hands and went off as Taylor was out.
aah ok got it, thanks for clearing that up
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Finn out for the first test and Vaughan saying we should probably leave Anderson out, does that have any effect on people's XI? I did consider leaving Jimmy out of mine but with Finn out he has to play.
Cook
Hales
Bell
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Rashid
Wood
Broad
Anderson
Harsh on Taylor but that's my 11 for the first test
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Finn out for the first test and Vaughan saying we should probably leave Anderson out, does that have any effect on people's XI? I did consider leaving Jimmy out of mine but with Finn out he has to play.
Cook
Hales
Bell
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Rashid
Wood
Broad
Anderson
Harsh on Taylor but that's my 11 for the first test
Can't see them playing 4 seamers in those conditions. Might as well play Taylor. Hales won't play, more likely Buttler will after scraping up 30 odd in the last game.
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Unfortunately it's now pretty clear that Moeen is going to open the batting. Prediction vs (what I'd pick):
Cook (Cook)
Ali (Hales)
Bell (Bell)
Root (Root)
Bairstow (Undecided between Bairstow and Taylor)
Stokes (Stokes)
Buttler (Buttler)
Rashid (Ali)
Broad (Rashid)
Wood (Broad)
Anderson (Anderson)
Still am incredibly confused why the need for 6 bowlers, we did just fine with 4 last time v Pakistan and it was the batting that let us down. Can see Taylor getting in for Buttler or Bairstow.
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I tend to agree with Hoover - I can't see the point of 4 seamers really, especially if one of them isn't Finn.
I would drop Wood or Stokes (probs Wood) and pop Taylor in.
My side would then read -
Cook
Hales
Bell
Root
Taylor
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
I think we are going to need all the batting we can get - however, it would seem that the Pak leggie is struggling with a back injury, which might help things.
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i actually think England are going to do far better in this series than expected...we obviously got hammered last time round.....but we do seen to be going in very bowler heavy-it's gonna be hot yes but no hotter than Australia away
James Taylor is a talent we may need his style in the middle order rather than a biffer
Hope they do find a spot for him.
I'm still a bit baffled with the Hales situation but that's been done to death on the boards here. He will obviously play in the limited over stuff.
Bowling wise if we are really going to have 6 it can't be 3 seamers(excluding stokes)-you would replace on of them with Patel in that side.
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Expected team vs what is like to see:
Cook* (Cook*)
Ali (Hales)
Bell (Bell)
Root (Root)
Bairstow (Taylor)
Stokes (Stokes)
Buttler+ (Bairstow+)
Rashid (Ali)
Broad (Rashid)
Wood (Broad)
Anderson (Anderson)
With Fin injured I don't see the need for 4 seamers as none of the remaining ones have the "X Factor" so to speak.
With Buttlers current form I'd like to see Bairstow given the gloves and Taylor in the middle order. As for the opener, let Ali do the job he's done well and give Hales a chance. It isn't going to happen, but it's what I'd like to see!
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With Fin injured I don't see the need for 4 seamers as none of the remaining ones have the "X Factor" so to speak.
Is there an echo in here?
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If Taylor doesn't play a fair part in this series its a joke and sends out the wrong message to him. He is always being told to go away and score runs which he does, then gets in to squads, scores runs (lions and odis). Then we select players out of form ahead of him!! Can just see him hardly playing, us failing, then him getting shoved in against SA where he will ultimately fail due to lack of game time. Its exactly the situation when he made his debut, coincidentally vs SA.
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Is there an echo in here?
Great minds think alike Fools never differ Bruce, fools never differ! :D
Maybe people keep saying it because it's true, but such radical thinking may be frowned upon...
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Is there an echo in here?
Let's find out, if this comes back around yes there is, ok here goes.....
BARMY ARMY!!!!!
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What the 9 pages of this thread tell us is that whoever plays in the first test will be a complete guess from everyone involved.
This is the kind of shocking management that we have come to expect of English sport.
The England team after winning the ashes should be the byword for "we know our bet team" and "we have a settled and experienced team". So instead of giving Hales a run 18 months ago we aren't going to pick him now when the is a vacancy, we pick Moeen - who is clearly a natural number 5 and no higher, to open but just for this tour and then say to Hales - have a go against Steyn and Morkel after we have realised that Moeen is susceptible to the short ball.
This is moronic from England.
Then we have Jos Buttler. I totally think he is going to be a superstar - but clearly he has something wrong with his batting - whether it is technical or mental I don't know (I don't have sky sports so don't get to watch it enough) but shouldn't be on this tour - he should be playing state/grade cricket in Aus or SA working out how to play and score runs again.
What the management are doing here is potentially ruining Hales, Ali and Buttler in one go.
Now let us talk about the bowling options...
Not picking Anderson is ridiculous click bait from Vaughan. Finn being injured is a direct result of being over bowled in the heat the other day - well done Ali - you still can't captain a cricket side.
Then we have Rashid and Wood and Stokes...
ARRRRGGGG - this rant could be continued, but I will stop to make myself some tea and have a deep breath or two.
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from aus test.
Ali will open
Rashid will replace him.
Wood will bowl as Finn injured. Everyone else as last time.
Hales and Taylor won't get a go.
Ali and buttler won't make any runs, bell and stokes not enough.
The four seamers won't do anything, but rashid will be dropped for second test as too expensive.
Changes will be made for test 3 what everyone wants(buttler dropped, hales and Taylor in and a seamer dropped rashid back in) but it be too late......
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But all that said...we have the ashes ;)
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I think we are in a lot better shape than the last time we came over to the UAE.
We have the squad flexibility to be able to sort an eleven out that includes 3 spinners, 3 seamers and bats down to 8.
I don't think that Trev and Farbs are as one-eyed and methodical as some of their predecessors so I'm prepared to see what they come up with.
Yes people like Hales and Jos might get a rough deal, but form does play a part, and the coach has to pick the best eleven for the conditions tomorrow.
I AM A GLOWING ORB OF POSITIVITY!!
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Fattus - is that click bait?
I think we are in a lot better shape than the last time we came over to the UAE.
Last time we were here we were number 1 in the world had Swann and Panasar and a settled first choice team...
I suppose at least this time Ajmal isn't allowed to throw it.
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My team would be very similar to those mentioned by everyone else, we should all clearly be selectors.
1: Cook*
2: Hales
3: Bell
4: Root
5: Taylor
6: Stokes
7: Bairstow
8: Moeen
9: Rashid
10: Broad
11: Anderson
Bats down to 10 (maybe, kinda, just, that 169 seems a long time ago doesn't it!) and has 3 seamers 2 spinners and a Root.
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I think there is a decent argument for Broad getting the chop for Wood. Broad has form, getting dropped in India for being rubbish. Then I looked at cricinfo:-
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/10617.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;home_or_away=3;opposition=25;opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/10617.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;home_or_away=3;opposition=25;opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling)
Averages 20 with the ball in the UAE. I'll get my coat...
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I think there is a decent argument for Broad getting the chop for Wood. Broad has form, getting dropped in India for being rubbish. Then I looked at cricinfo:-
[url]http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/10617.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;home_or_away=3;opposition=25;opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling[/url] ([url]http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/10617.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;home_or_away=3;opposition=25;opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling[/url])
Averages 20 with the ball in the UAE. I'll get my coat...
I don't really get the Broad-doubting, I know he comes across as a bit of a tool sometimes but I don't think you can argue with his performances or stats, has a marginally better average and strike rate than Anderson and similar economy rate?
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Cricinfo reporting that Wood and Buttler will be playing. 6 man bowling attach with 4 seamers. An out of form keeper/batter to go with an allrounder who hasn't scored a run in the UAE (Stokes not Samit but you could swap them for the same result). That should work lol
So glad the England Management have a handle on the conditions. Lets hope they know something we don't! I assume they will bowl first then....
Yasir Shah is also out according to the telegraph.
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Finn is injured and so wood plays and after the warm ups where ali got the chances after the management said itd be a fair shootout between him and hales (it just wasnt) he'll open which i cant help but think is a bit daft!!! another england battering on the sub continent here we come!
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We all know Ali is not an opener and Hales is a big risk as a test opener but who else can England turn to to open with Cook.
England are going around in circles time to give a new guy a go tell him to play without fear and give him a run in the side.
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We all know Ali is not an opener and Hales is a big risk as a test opener but who else can England turn to to open with Cook.
England are going around in circles time to give a new guy a go tell him to play without fear and give him a run in the side.
Err wasn't that Robson and Lyth?. Any chance Strauss can come out of retirement.
You know who did get a ton in the UAE opening the batting and went quite well....KP.
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whats wrong with compton? he had the most success partnering cook
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whats wrong with compton? he had the most success partnering cook
Cook is boring enough. Fair point in hindsight and he wasn't too bad in India.
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My thinking of an ideal batsman to open with Cook is also KP.......but it won't happen!
Gutted about it! And the fact that nobody else seems to be succeeding in that slot makes it even more frustrating >:(
So Hales it is....probably!
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Cook has confirmed Ali will open but we knew that anyway really!
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Hales will get a go in South Africa - there's no way Ali can consistently open and be the top spinner. You have to give credit to Bayliss and Farbrace for a bit of lateral thinking. We're not criticising them for selecting more bowlers in the UAE, it's precisely the same principle - horses for courses.
Ideally we would have two openers who can play all conditions well, but we don't. I want Hales to play and succeed as much as the next man, but for whatever reason he hasn't been selected previously and, probably based on a lot more than any of us have seen of him against spin bowling, they're going with Moeen and I'll bet, given the workload Moeen will have, they really don't fancy Hales in this series.
Buttler, I don't know. Bairstow is in better form with the bat, I don't know whether he's a better keeper. I guess they have invested in this young side and acknowledged publicly months ago that there will be ups and downs in all player's development. If you start dropping players you've invested in and gained trust from, do we get the same situation as we have with openers, in that players think they have 1-2 series if they don't perform? That can only lead to added pressure for young players at the start of their test careers. Bigger picture, I'd take a couple of series of under performing (and that's all it is with Buttler) for him to come out stronger. For Buttler and Stokes to consistently perform in all areas at their age is a big ask - I say stick with them. We don't want to get back to the 90s where you had a bad session and were dropped.
Lyth kept making the same mistakes, Robson had a clear technical flaw, Compton spat his dummy about the coaches (rightly or wrongly, don't do it in public...). But I think in Buttler we all acknowledge he's a potential world beater - Gilchrist-like. I wouldn't want to start messing with his head too much at the start of his career.
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Apparently Cook has said in an interview moeen will definately open as it means they can play six bowlers.
That'll mean no Taylor and 4 seamers.
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Regardling of team selection I hope come 7am tomorrow morning we're all sat on the Internet and getting behind the lads like we did all summer. Come on England.
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Surely 4 seamers is excessive, surely they don't expect Pakistan to play 4 seamers so why would England? Do they know something about the UAE pitches that Pakistan don't? Or have they forgot that last time they toured UAE it was the batting department that struggled?
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Surely 4 seamers is excessive, surely they don't expect Pakistan to play 4 seamers so why would England? Do they know something about the UAE pitches that Pakistan don't? Or have they forgot that last time they toured UAE it was the batting department that struggled?
I think three reasons - firstly, it's going to be bloomin' warm - if we can cram more bowlers in I say do it, there are going to be numerous days we're toiling in the field.
Next, I actually think we have some decent pace bowlers! I don't know if that gets overlooked at times.
Finally, Pakistan have some experienced spinners who will be relied on to do more than England's spinners, so it's possibly also about taking their batsmen out of their comfort zones with some short, sharp quick spells, as much as Moeen and Rashid trying to attack and contain.
You've got to give the batsman the responsibility of making the runs, so I'm all for cramming the bowlers in
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I think three reasons - firstly, it's going to be bloomin' warm - if we can cram more bowlers in I say do it, there are going to be numerous days we're toiling in the field.
Next, I actually think we have some decent pace bowlers! I don't know if that gets overlooked at times.
Finally, Pakistan have some experienced spinners who will be relied on to do more than England's spinners, so it's possibly also about taking their batsmen out of their comfort zones with some short, sharp quick spells, as much as Moeen and Rashid trying to attack and contain.
You've got to give the batsman the responsibility of making the runs, so I'm all for cramming the bowlers in
If you do that then Taylor has to play based on how he has gone so far, can't pick several out of form/bit flakey batsman - they all have to bat well. You could, play Taylor and Samit, instead of Wood and Butler and have a better balanced 6 bowler attack and 2 more batsman likely to score in these conditions. (I will acknowledge Samit looks as dangerous as Joe Root with the ball but he does turn it away).
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With Yasir Shah possibly out injured, the odds have never been so much in England's favor.
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I think three reasons - firstly, it's going to be bloomin' warm - if we can cram more bowlers in I say do it, there are going to be numerous days we're toiling in the field.
Next, I actually think we have some decent pace bowlers! I don't know if that gets overlooked at times.
Finally, Pakistan have some experienced spinners who will be relied on to do more than England's spinners, so it's possibly also about taking their batsmen out of their comfort zones with some short, sharp quick spells, as much as Moeen and Rashid trying to attack and contain.
You've got to give the batsman the responsibility of making the runs, so I'm all for cramming the bowlers in
Don't get me wrong I think we have a good pace attack too, I just worry that it's counter productive having a somewhat injury prone pace bowler like Mark Wood for example slogging away for no real gain. The only way I can think it could be beneficial is if they give Wood and Stokes the short spells you mention (I think very short spells 4/5 overs max) and tell them to just unleash and bowl as fast as they possibly can to see if that makes them, the Pakistani batsmen, uncomfortable. Otherwise I see the seamers becoming just workhorses unless Stokes finds some reverse with the old ball?
Just my opinion though, I see your point too :)
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if we are really going to buck the trend with 4 seamers it's hat's off the England who are going to do that the hard way(or the stupid way). In 2012 Ajmal got 24 wickets and Monty Panesar with 14(it's another thread but how is he not in the picture is a tragedy).
38 wickets to spin in a 3 match series is a helluva lot.
:)
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if we are really going to buck the trend with 4 seamers it's hat's off the England who are going to do that the hard way(or the stupid way). In 2012 Ajmal got 24 wickets and Monty Panesar with 14(it's another thread but how is he not in the picture is a tragedy).
38 wickets to spin in a 3 match series is a helluva lot.
:)
It's more than that even, think Swann got 10 or 12 too, not forgetting Hafeez and Rehmen as well!
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It's more than that even, think Swann got 10 or 12 too.
Yes of course, Swanns in too.
erm...I hope we don't kill any of our seamers. There's only so much you can get out of the new ball on these tracks. Figures never lie.
I would have Taylor in and drop a seamer. If we really are playing all these bowlers drop a seamer and play Samit
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Yes of course, Swanns in too.
erm...I hope we don't kill any of our seamers. There's only so much you can get out of the new ball on these tracks. Figures never lie.
I would have Taylor in and drop a seamer. If we really are playing all these bowlers drop a seamer and play Samit
I agree, if England think that 6 full time bowlers are needed (not including Joe Root, who I think would do nearly as good a job as Patel) then it should be 3 and 3 in my opinion.
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This is England remember, Rashid will go 7-0-45-2 then not get another bowl as he's "too expensive" meaning Roooooot bowls a marathon spell anyway.
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This is England remember, Rashid will go 7-0-45-2 then not get another bowl as he's "too expensive" meaning Roooooot bowls a marathon spell anyway.
to be honest i'm looking at this as a bit of a test of Cook. His captaincy did get better during the Ashes but now he has to skipper a leg spinner. Anyone who knows anything about leggies knows if you lose your bottle as a captain you lose the bowler.
Cook needs to show a set of gonads and help Rashid any and every way he can.Gawd knows he has waited long enough to get a spot in the team. Ali goes for too many runs Cook can't expect Rashid to change his game and be defensive. some of the other bowlers are going to need to 'dry it up'
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Cricinfo has gone stats crazy on how this first test is most suited to pace bowlers. May be another reason for 4...
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If you do that then Taylor has to play based on how he has gone so far, can't pick several out of form/bit flakey batsman - they all have to bat well. You could, play Taylor and Samit, instead of Wood and Butler and have a better balanced 6 bowler attack and 2 more batsman likely to score in these conditions. (I will acknowledge Samit looks as dangerous as Joe Root with the ball but he does turn it away).
I'd like to see Taylor play, but given they've set their stall on six bowlers, where does he play? Not 3, as they've told bell two tests ago he's the man for that spot, not root, bairstow has just come in. If we're applying their consistent selection policy, he's got to wait a bit longer.
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Err wasn't that Robson and Lyth?. Any chance Strauss can come out of retirement.
You know who did get a ton in the UAE opening the batting and went quite well....KP.
Should have written someone who has not yet had there oppotunity.
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I'd like to see
1) Cook
2) Hales
3)Bell
4) Taylor
5)Root
6) Stokes
7) Bairstow (wk)
8)Ali
9)Rashid
10) Wood
11) Anderson
Sadly i imagine
Cook
Ali
Bell
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler (wk)
Rashid
Wood
Broad
Anderson
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whats wrong with compton? he had the most success partnering cook
[/quote
Never really understood why Compton was cast aside.
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Sadly i imagine
Cook
Ali
Bell
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler (wk)
Rashid
Wood
Broad
Anderson
Ding ding ding we have a winner
It'll be grand
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awfully predictable by england again, so much for development and looking to the future
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This is pretty funny though https://youtu.be/RJdQ6MuWmtE?t=3m11s
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England lose the toss and bowl.
Ali opens, rashid plays. no Taylor and 4 seamers. Still playing two stumpers.
Long day in the heAt.
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We'd better bowl them out cheaply with our ridiculous bowling attack then, no excuses about heat when you've only got to bowl 15 overs a day without even using Root!
Pressure on Buttler unfortunately, England clearly want to invest in him but Taylor is mounting a siege on the team (not before time, too) and if YJB gets runs...
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1 down!
Anderson gets massood bowled.
Mans there is the flaw in the new masuris, they be that strong the ball just cannons of them into the stumps....
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Cheeky 1-fer for the stem guard
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Shame not to see Taylor getting the nod, not that I was surprised!
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Still mad watching that Bell drop, should have retired and bring in the James Taylor era
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Shame not to see Taylor getting the nod, not that I was surprised!
Bell is going to have to get some big scores if he keeps spilling them in the slips.Taylor has got to be a fag paper away from being picked.
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I'm not a bell fan but harsh to drop him and keep a massively under performing Buttler.
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Gonna be a loooong day I think - but then, such is Test cricket in this part of the world.
I fancy Ali to pick up 2 or 3 wkts today.
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have you got any tips for the England boys to keep cool out there Cat?
Saw Bairstow the other day with both elbows in ice buckets.
You would think an extra cold Guiness would go down well about 4pm
:o
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There is a reason why our plums hang outside our bodies, and that is to vent heat and keep them cool.
My suggestions are:
A little draw-string bag full of crushed ice tied around your plums, and left hanging out of the whites
Frequent use of ice-pops (and I don't mean orally)
Plat ice cubes into Moeen's beard at the start of each session and allow other players to suck on them when passing
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Moeen's value to the team just keeps going upwards!
:)
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have you got any tips for the England boys to keep cool out there Cat?
Saw Bairstow the other day with both elbows in ice buckets.
You would think an extra cold Guiness would go down well about 4pm
:o
But I thought it was easy on the subcontinent!! What's the need to cool down.
Just shows players like sangakarra don't get enough credit for runs scored at home, batting 4 hours + and then keeping wicket.
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No balls like that are inexcusable...
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But I thought it was easy on the subcontinent!! What's the need to cool down.
Just shows players like sangakarra don't get enough credit for runs scored at home, batting 4 hours + and then keeping wicket.
Sangakara is about as good as it gets batting wise, don't buy the 'runs on flat tracks' scenario-he has shown his class all round the world,and he has got to be super fit.....
As for the conditions, this is def a hard tour for the England team, quite a few a saying on BBC this is far harder than the Ashes....
Pakistan hav'nt lost a series in the UAE I don't think, and we are not used to this unrelenting heat. Same when we go to India and India/sri lanka come here.
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quite a few a saying on BBC this is far harder than the Ashes....
I'd agree with that without question!
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No balls like that are inexcusable...
Harder for the bowlers when the umpires don't even bother watching for them though.
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Nice to see Rashid learning from the ODI's that full tosses and short balls are punished everytime at this level
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Rashid and his pies! That's why he didn't play in the West Indies. Just not good enough
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STOKESY
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He's got something about him Stokes, not always gonna perform but he makes things happen.
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Can Root have a bowl?
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Ooh - that's wild and dangerous left-field thinking!!!
Joe should've had 4 or 5 overs by now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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who thinks Ansari would of played if fit?
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who thinks Ansari would of played if fit?
Doubt it, in their mind I think they'd always considered Rashid.
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These wickets are bowler kilers
Yes i reckon ansari wld of played in this game,he can clearly bat also so your not weakening the bowling.im in a bit of a fog why we have broad anderson wood and stokes in this game,yes they could of been 3 down but these are not seaming tracks
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who thinks Ansari would of played if fit?
He would 100% have played. I suspect he would have become a mainstay in the team too.
Rashid is not a test bowler.
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Cooky you fielding genius
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I get a new job offer over the phone and Jimmy takes a wicket, I LOVE LIFE.
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I'm sorry, you can't call that out. I'm happy for Jimmy, but what's the point in having DRS if you don't have everything. That means the 3r umpire should judge every similar decision to that standard now...
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I'm sorry, you can't call that out.
Yeah, very strange decision.
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Oh look, another dropped catch by Ian Bell.
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What is going on with Bells catching. Two really easy chances now
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is bell good enough to be in the cordon at the minute? who else would be in there? cook root stokes anderson?
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is bell good enough to be in the cordon at the minute? who else would be in there? cook root stokes anderson?
Stevie Wonder or David Blunkett...
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Bell's confidence is absolutely shot at the moment, everything he does just seems to go wrong, really feel for the bloke because he's clearly immensely talented but I think it's time James Taylor took his place as he's been threatening to do for the last 18 months.
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He would 100% have played. I suspect he would have become a mainstay in the team too.
Rashid is not a test bowler.
Some Rose-tinted Surrey Specs on there Buzz old chap?
If Ansari had played, it would have been at the expense of the third quick (probabaly Wood) - Rashid was clearly going to be the man here. Is he a test bowler? Time will tell - but all the evidence from his one day experience is that he can confuse top class players, so he should do okay. How you can suggest that Rashid is not a test bowler but Ansari - who, lets face it, has never taken a division one wicket, is I have no idea!
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Not sure we are going to agree on this Manormanic, but I knew that when I posted it and was waiting for a response! :D
1st vs 2nd div? Not sure Ali Cook has a single 1st div run so it is a difficult (and different) argument. I think Ansari is better than Rashid. You don't agree. Missing this trip may be good for Ansari in the long term.
More of a worry here are the dropped catches and whether we will get enough runs to put pak under pressure.
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Another example, Moeen - Div 2 specialist, hasn't exactly gone badly for England has it!!
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if youre going on div 1/2 argument dont forget yorkshire have been up and down the divisions and its only been the past three years where theyve been a force and so rashid has bowled in both division and root and bairstow have both scored runs in both tiers. Theres even more div 2 players in the white ball set ups but i feel thats a discussion for the back end of the tour.
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if youre going on div 1/2 argument dont forget yorkshire have been up and down the divisions and its only been the past three years where theyve been a force and so rashid has bowled in both division and root and bairstow have both scored runs in both tiers. Theres even more div 2 players in the white ball set ups but i feel thats a discussion for the back end of the tour.
I think Yorkshire have spent one of the last seven seasons in the lower division (and that was the year that was mostly rained off) so there's hardly going to be a distortion to their stats!
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Anyone still mad at Ian Bell?
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Stevie Wonder or David Blunkett...
Well they couldn't do any worse...
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I think Yorkshire have spent one of the last seven seasons in the lower division (and that was the year that was mostly rained off) so there's hardly going to be a distortion to their stats!
ah fair enough, i know they were down for at least one which was when derby won it, and the rain might have had something to do with that
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Not sure we are going to agree on this Manormanic, but I knew that when I posted it and was waiting for a response! :D
1st vs 2nd div? Not sure Ali Cook has a single 1st div run so it is a difficult (and different) argument. I think Ansari is better than Rashid. You don't agree. Missing this trip may be good for Ansari in the long term.
More of a worry here are the dropped catches and whether we will get enough runs to put pak under pressure.
I'm with Buzz on this one. I think Ansari was always going to play and bat 8 with Ali opening. That was always the plan for the UAE.
When he was injured it threw a spanner in the works and they panicked by picking Samit. I don't think they wanted to play 4 seamers ideally.You can tell who wasn't a first choice for the test team by the game time in the warm ups, Hales for example and Samit only got some overs towards the end of game two. I think in hindsight a specialist spinner turning it away might have been more useful. Not sure who though!
With Finn having a stress fracture of the foot, does this leave the door open for Ansari to return as a replacement?
I wonder who is on suicide watch tonight for Ian Bell! They were two sitters at test level and it's already cost England big.
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I really don't think Ansari was going to play to be honest, I think he was there for the ride and step in if there was an injury.
I came on to ask who people would pick to replace Finn? Charles Colville reckons we will hear tomorrow that Finn is off home so I figure we will call for another steamer, any ideas? I can't see them calling for Ansari, is he even fit?
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plunkett probably add pace to the seamers that finn had although similar trajectory to the rest of the attack
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plunkett probably add pace to the seamers that finn had although similar trajectory to the rest of the attack
That's what I was trying to think of but couldn't think of anyone! DOH!
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should probably say i reckon ansari is in with a shout if hes fit, or maybe even bring ansari and a quickie over! i get the impression that picking ansari was to blood him and give him some time around the test squad and england set up overall affter his odi vs ireland was washed out if he can score heavily for surrey could he perhaps solve the opener issues for england? means theres 2 spinners in the side all the time and ali doesnt have to open on ocasion!
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hmmm. I really don't see the argument for Ansari unless they wanted him as a third spin option - there is just no way that Rashid would have been cast aside in that situation. Long term, I suspect he is more of an option to replace Ali as a batsman who can hold up an end than Rashid who will always be the attacking second innings spinner who plays when conditions demand.
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But he isn't a good enough bowler...
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Whys everyone judging rashid on a flat first day pitch?
Yes he currently bowls to many full tosses and short balls, but on day 3/4/5 he should be more dangerous.
He certainly isn't as bad as Kerrigan was.....
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But he isn't a good enough bowler...
As a sample, this is the first class records of England's four "spinners" this tour:
Rashid 410 @ 34 (with 19 five wicket hauls)
Ali 195 @ 40 (5)
Ansari 100 @ 35 (5)
Patel 238 @ 40 (3)
Bearing in mind that Rashid and Patel are basically D1 players the others D2, and that Rashid often gets hidden behind the Yorkshire seam attack, costing him loads of opportunities, this would seem to suggest that he's the main man. I would also point out that he is comfortably the best fielder of the four, and that - despite being the only one not considered a batting all rounder - his batting figures more than stack up...
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Raja has said he's not good enough and tbh, given his calibre and the fact he'll know spin more than any ecb man does..suggests rashid won't cut it. However, none of the others look any better so it's just the best of a poor bunch really.
The fact we have moeen Ali, someone who can't play the short ball opening in test cricket just about sums up the level both England and world cricket is at currently.
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I would say Rashid benefits from the seam attack around him and Ansari is a gun fielder. He also opens the batting which is far from his natural position, I can't see Rashid doing that!
Regardless, Rashid bowls slow loopy leggies which can be ok in an odi when the batsman have to chase runs. In a test match he will just get picked off.
Ansari is just starting out as a spinner and has been the best county spinner this year. That is some achievement.
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I would say Rashid benefits from the seam attack around him and Ansari is a gun fielder. He also opens the batting which is far from his natural position, I can't see Rashid doing that!
Regardless, Rashid bowls slow loopy leggies which can be ok in an odi when the batsman have to chase runs. In a test match he will just get picked off.
Ansari is just starting out as a spinner and has been the best county spinner this year. That is some achievement.
Rashid will improve. Don't dump him for good. But for now - not good enough. Had yasir shah been playing this game, it would have really highlighted how far behind Rashid is from test level. But...he has enough potential to be given a run in a year or so.
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Adil Rashid will only get better from here.
I really think ECB is missing their former spin coach, Mushtaq Ahmed. With young spinners, he would have really flourished them and they would have improved leap and bound! These guys need a good mentor who can tell them about spin bowling outside English conditions.
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Rashid brings up his 100 in 20 overs! Good going that
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Rashid brings up his 100 in 20 overs! Good going that
What did warne go for in his first test ?
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Adil you are not the one...
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Sad to hear Finn is now ruled out of the series with a bone stress injury :-(
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Jordan called up as replacement....I presume simply to stand in slips and catch everything
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Jordan called up as replacement....I presume simply to stand in slips and catch everything
Can only be to replace Bell at 2nd slip because he has no chance of taking a wicket on the roads in UAE.
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Jordan called up as replacement....I presume simply to stand in slips and catch everything
Must be, although he did end the season opening the batting for Sussex so they could be covering Cook in case his finger injury gets worse! Surprised they didn't call up a pace bowler instead like Footit to replace Finn.
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What did warne go for in his first test ?
Big difference going 1/150 against Tendulkar and Shastri than getting tanned by Malik and Hafeez...
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Can only be to replace Bell at 2nd slip because he has no chance of taking a wicket on the roads in UAE.
When the the pitch become a road? Just because it's not a raging green top doesn't make it a road. I'm sure the Pakistani fast bowlers will get more out of the pitch.
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When the the pitch become a road? Just because it's not a raging green top doesn't make it a road. I'm sure the Pakistani fast bowlers will get more out of the pitch.
It was more of a general assessment of typical UAE pitches often being slow easy batting tracks in the first innings, how can I possibly have been referring to Chris Jordan's chance of taking a wicket on the pitch that they are currently playing on when he has only just been called up to the squad half an hour ago?
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I hate cricket again
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Jordan called up as replacement....I presume simply to stand in slips and catch everything
Presumtion correct Well there's no point in calling him upto bowl.....
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Jordan called up as replacement....I presume simply to stand in slips and catch everything
along with plunkett who is already with the squad.
The talk on sky at lunch is that a left armer would have been a better option, possibly footit or willey. id say footit would be a decent shout been bowling well for a few years and hits 90mph regularly and swings it late!
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Adil Rashid will only get better from here.
I really think ECB is missing their former spin coach, Mushtaq Ahmed. With young spinners, he would have really flourished them and they would have improved leap and bound! These guys need a good mentor who can tell them about spin bowling outside English conditions.
I was thinking this too, we have an ex seamer as a bowling coach with an experienced seam attack in Anderson and Broad but no spin coach with 2 inexperienced spinners (at test level) who are expected to take a bulk of the wickets, doesn't make sense to me. I would have thought the could have drafted in an ex spinner from the sub continent or even vettori or Warne.
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vettori is going to be working with the performance program so that makes sense hed have been invalubale on this tour, rashid and ali look like part timers at the minute
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2 maidens all game for moeen and rashid, joe root comes on and bowls one first up england really need a deceent spinner!
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I need a drink.
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Rashid back on! Fill your boots time for Malik!
That no ball looking very costly now
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Fattus Cattus ice plums suggestion now looking like the best idea since sliced bread for the England boys.
anyone for a Carlsberg slush puppy?
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I need a drink.
same!!! typical england in the subcontinent, ineffective yet again :/
i cant help but think back to lords in the ashes australia make it look like a road and england struggle, hoping the same doesnt happen here especially with pakistans spinners and the horrors of 2012 coming back :/
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I think a fair chunk of England's batting performance will be down to how Captain Cook goes. He is the most likely batsman we have who can soak up the inevitable pressure of batting second and bat solidly for long periods while the others bat round him.
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Some on here are really harsh!
5th double ton at the ground in eight Test matches. And we're hammering the bowlers.
Wicket is an absolute road. And we're hammering the bowlers.
Hammering the spinners, yet all wickets have gone to quicks.
This pitch/ground is a bowler's graveyard.
Last few tests on this ground - Pakistan bat first; 500+ runs. Both Australia and NZ out for less than 300 in both innings. No wonder Cook audibly groaned when he lost the toss. This place is an absolute fortress for Pakistan, surely we can cut England a bit of slack. They deserve hammering for the drops and no ball, but you're going to make mistake in 35-40 degree heat, they're under prepared in terms of acclimatisation and first-class match practice - that;s not their fault, that's the scheduling...
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Thanks you for some perspective Jamie.
This is flat - was always going to be. There isn't a better spinner in England than these two at the moment, so there isn't anything else the selectors can do.
All we can do is bat and bat and bat and see how our spinners go in the second innings.
It's going to make for dull cricket for England fans, but we haven't got a magic bowler up our sleeves, so I can't see what else we could do apart from hold our bloody catches.
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Rashid must be closing in on McGains record for worst ever debut innings for a test bowler, albeit at a slightly more leisurely economy rate.
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it may be a road but australia made lords look the same and england batted poorly, we need a way of bowling teams out on good and very good batting wickets!
i think a left armer would help not only in that its another angle for batsmen to think about but will also breate some rough for the spinners well moeen anyway.
england have had a one paced and one style attck for a while yes now theres a little variety with wood/broad/anderson but theres still not that much variety, the only god send is we now have a leg spinner and he'll need time but will he get that? the only time i can see england playing two spinners is overseas in india/uae/sri lanka and so rashid realistically wont play unless two spinners are needed or moeen ali goes down injured!
this isnt saying england have bowled badly, they havnt but they didnt bowl badly in the summer at lords either and still got hammered
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Before calling a pitch flat/road would wait until both sides have batted!
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This pitch is going to magically turn from a road to a minefield around the time that the Misbah declares...
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It is a road but using Boycotts' well-worn phrase of waiting til both sides have batted is too simplistic. You have to take into account the scoreboard pressure and that Pakistan know how to win regularly on this pitch - e.g. Australia and NZ.
I fully expect England to score less than 350 and Pakistan to win the test by over 200 runs. That's being realistic. We don't have top quality spinners and now our quicks are shattered they're bowling down on pace and accuracy.
Our spinners have been trying to find the right pace and flight (or lack of) for this surface whereas Babar will get straight into a rhythm. We will face better, more consistent bowling than Pakistan have. Batting first on these types of tracks is everything. Asian teams playing against each other turn these types of pitches into 550 vs 600, then 200-1, match drawn. Australia and New Zealand showed that if you're not familiar with the pitches and conditions, you'll struggle.
Everyone makes good points, I'm just trying to manage expectations :)
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england have had a one paced and one style attck for a while yes now theres a little variety with wood/broad/anderson but theres still not that much variety, the only god send is we now have a leg spinner and he'll need time but will he get that? the only time i can see england playing two spinners is overseas in india/uae/sri lanka and so rashid realistically wont play unless two spinners are needed or moeen ali goes down injured!
If Moeen can sneak into the top 7 then that might create the space required for Rashid to play a bit more often than you described above, especially as he's not mug with the bat either.
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ben stokes, englands true all rounder, now it appears he is an off spinner....
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Neither Ali or Rashid should be anyway near a Test side pretending to be spin bowlers. Both are average at the very best.
How can England, with 18 county sides, not produce one proper spinner?
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@Kulli i agree but who would he replace? bairstow or buttler?
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Neither Ali or Rashid should be anyway near a Test side pretending to be spin bowlers. Both are average at the very best.
How can England, with 18 county sides, not produce one proper spinner?
There are a couple of youngsters who could be good the problem is the majority of the county game is played in the colder months and hard for them to progress.
Same could be said about Aus with all the state cricket how can they not find decent a world class spinner since Warne retired?
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so many ex players saying this is far harder than the Ashes are obviously all right. It's about as hard as it gets and no doubt will turn later-it just has to with that much heat on the track.
Expectations from a lot of us are England play outstandingly well and we get a draw, it's that hard to win in the UAE against this Pakistan side.
There will be a huge gulf in the spinners when Pakistan bowl, it's always going to be that way, it's their 'home' ground, Rashid- we(England) have to find out if he can do it at test level-after one test match there's no way anyone knows-he's got to play more. Warne would of been dropped after his first test match.
what we need to do is get stuck in and make a real fight of it in conditions we are not used to.
Most England fans I reckon will be happy with that.
:)
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@Kulli i agree but who would he replace? bairstow or buttler?
Buttler, on current form anyway.
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ben stokes, englands true all rounder, now it appears he is an off spinner....
Pretty embarrassing!
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There are a couple of youngsters who could be good the problem is the majority of the county game is played in the colder months and hard for them to progress.
Same could be said about Aus with all the state cricket how can they not find decent a world class spinner since Warne retired?
We have 6 State sides so a considerably smaller pool of spinners to pick from when Warne retire. McGill was world class but his body fell apart. Then Hauritz was a good bowler and now Lyon is a good bowler.
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We have 6 State sides so a considerably smaller pool of spinners to pick from when Warne retire. McGill was world class but his body fell apart. Then Hauritz was a good bowler and now Lyon is a good bowler.
Who is next in line if Lyon was injured? I am just saying that unless you're a sub continent team then quality spinners are lacking acrross the board.
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All this would not have needed to be discussed if a couple of catches had of been taken and if someone hadn't of overstepped!
So far these three errors have cost 379 runs!!! Let's be generous and say that Bell could have dropped the tougher first catch, but held on to the easy catch. Just the easy drop and the overstep have cost 288 runs so far and counting!
So agree that we need to work on finding a spinner and several other issues. But that will come in time hopefully! The things we need to do immediately are to get the right people in the right fielding positions (slips have to be decent catchers!) and getting bowlers to stop getting so damn close to the no-ball line!!
Work on those things first and we stop giving away 379 runs and counting!!!! :(
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We have 6 State sides so a considerably smaller pool of spinners to pick from when Warne retire. McGill was world class but his body fell apart. Then Hauritz was a good bowler and now Lyon is a good bowler.
We don't really give a monkeys what you have! This is the England v Pakistan topic - it's not all about you! Jeez..get over yourself woman! ;)
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We have 6 State sides so a considerably smaller pool of spinners to pick from when Warne retire. McGill was world class but his body fell apart. Then Hauritz was a good bowler and now Lyon is a good bowler.
surely it's conditions that develop spin bowling not the number of teams?. The Aussie system of state sides has been held up as the perfect model to develop high quality cricketers all thru the years Australia dominatied.
Now that domination has ended it's a bit rich to say it's because of the same system that produced so many world class players surely?
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england finally have a wicket!!!!! mark wood gets asad shafiq!
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and another!!! stokes gets sarfraz ahmed!!!
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Don't worry lads we have this under control
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Bell has held one...he is definitely scoring a ton now...confidence must be sky high
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It might've been covered earlier in the topic (but it's 19 pages long) but has anyone else been stupid enough to to go over there?
I booked a holiday to Dubai without knowing this tour was on so I'm going to an ODI in Abu Dhabi
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Pakistan collapsing now to ........521/7......maybe collapsing is too stronger word huh :-[
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well played malik!!! finally out
@mattcoll12491 ive been once visited family in abu dhabi!! not much to do much sunbathe and keep cool unless you like shopping!! although there are a few water parks and ferrari world in abu dhabi, the cricket ground is lovely i happened to be ober there when warwickshire played the mcc in the annual county championship match! nice ground but not the biggest was even emptier than it is for the test match there was only myself and my dad in at one point!!! free entry day nighter and no interest!
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245 and his first test in 5 years. Not a bad effort!
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Should Cook rush Rashid back on now? Normally good at cleaning up the tail for Yorkshire and a couple of wickets might give him a small confidence boost!
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Too late haha
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Declaration 523/8
Chances of England being 4 down or more by close?
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Well batted Malik!
so Bell's drops only cost 188 runs....whereas Broad overstepping cost 205 runs! Not sure how he can make that one up! Although with the batting form Bell is in, I am struggling to imagine how he will make up those 188 runs as well!
Shame for England. If it hadn't been for those mistakes, Pakistan would have been all out for 300 or less. And would have made for an much more interesting game!!
But with 500+ to chase, England will no doubt go into their shell and play survival mode and their only aim will be trying to avoid being bowled out twice before Saturday!!!
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Declaration 523/8
Chances of England being 4 down or more by close?
Very good
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Gotta stay positive, England to end 1st innings 614/5 Cook 342* :D
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now to moeen ali to prove people wrong!!!!
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Only 4 down? I think you are being generous!
5 down with Root and Buttler (or the night watchman) by COP!
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moeen also using a ton still! clearly taped up side branding
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Well, this is quite the start.
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Wow! I miss one test match and a side mounts a total of 500+. Well done team Pakistan!!
I don't see how England will make up for those missed opportunities that led to big scores by Malik et-al.
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Misbah has flicked the switch...
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac151/buzzrockport/Minefield-road_zpsmksnfr3b.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/buzzrockport/media/Minefield-road_zpsmksnfr3b.jpg.html)
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Got to feel sorry for Mo, hopefully he'll settle in and get to tomorrow morning! To bowl 30 overs, field all day and then be expected to open the batting for the first time is a hell of an ask.
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Glad they've wasted a review already
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Got to feel sorry for Mo, hopefully he'll settle in and get to tomorrow morning! To bowl 30 overs, field all day and then be expected to open the batting for the first time is a hell of an ask.
yep absolutely.....we are asking an awful lot from this guy. agree totally.
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Watching a bird eating a dead bird vs England surviving two overs of spin in the UAE
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Cook and Ali have swapped batting styles. Doing alright to be fair, survive the session without losing a wicket and it'll be golden.
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Cook and Ali have swapped batting styles. Doing alright to be fair, survive the session without losing a wicket and it'll be golden.
1st innings lead?
:) :)
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The king is dead! Long live king Ali..........
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We're on our way. Impressed so far
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Ok - I am putting my hands up and admitting that I was wrong!
5 down? I am pleased to say that I was way out on that! I was simply going on past form/experience!!
But I was wrong and am pleased I was wrong. Mind you , if you asked my missus, she'd tell you that I'm always wrong! ???
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Refreshing to see the opening partnership last for over 10 overs for a change!!!
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I think unless England gets "bored out", Pak will struggle to win. Their squad selection was really silly...with no back up to Yasir
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The gloves Malik was wearing looked like they cost £5 and were for youth...
Didn't look to offer much protection at all, almost like bottom of the range softs, having said that didn't stop him massacring our bowling #ouch
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To be fair you could bat without gloves on that pitch given the lack of chance of it getting that high.
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The gloves Malik was wearing looked like they cost £5 and were for youth...
Didn't look to offer much protection at all, almost like bottom of the range softs, having said that didn't stop him massacring our bowling #ouch
He was wearing SG gloves, not CA
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Shoaib Malik seem to prefer lower end gloves, probably due to better fit as they are less bulky.
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Right, lets bat this out
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An English opening partnership of 100. What?!
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This is a road though, and 2 days 1 hr in hasn't made great viewing.
BORED!!
Bet carberry, Robison, and lyth would have all loved a go on this wicket while in there England shirts!
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This is a road though, and 2 days 1 hr in hasn't made great viewing.
BORED!!
Bet carberry, Robison, and lyth would have all loved a go on this wicket while in there England shirts!
It's only boring tbh because both sides have poor bowling attacks. Stick a Swann/Ajmal quality spinner on here and I'd bet they'd make something happen. It's a good test of concentration and fitness which is just as much part of test cricket as wham bang all over inn 3 days slog fests
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Yeah I'm not bored of England being 109-0 down at all, makes a change for once
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Yeah I'm not bored of England being 109-0 down at all, makes a change for once
Don't get me wrong, I don't overly enjoy batting wickets like this, nothing worse than 500+ plays 500+ like India usually have but it makes a change from what was practically one day cricket we saw in the ashes.
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109 for 0 on a wicket that gives equal fight between bat and ball. Yes please.
109 for 0 on a wicket offering nothing to either bowling attack. Is not interesting what so ever.
No test of a batsmens cricketing ability.
Only test here is the heat, what will run out first? The batsmens patience or there energy.
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Ah here we go, uh oh
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And as I say mo falls, that ball actually moved away a touch.
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Concentration wasn't up to scratch. That's a few lapses by both cook and Ali and mo finds his edge and is gone. Good test cricket, not as easy to bat long and stay disciplined against disciplined bowling as it is to just go out wafting
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And as I say mo falls, that ball actually moved away a touch.
A few balls have moved, just not getting it all the time or every ball hence the discipline needed by bowler and batsmen. Bell needs a score desperately
At the end of the day, the great Australian side have made people expect 4+ an over in any condition in tests when actually, that's pretty much one day mode. I suppose it depends if you enjoy test cricket or just want to see a two innings odi played.
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Sounds as though the wicket is starting to come to life...........unfortunately!
Would have been nice if it had of stayed flat long enough for England to get in a safe position.
Will be interesting to see what happens from here ???
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Sounds as though the wicket is starting to come to life...........unfortunately!
Would have been nice if it had of stayed flat long enough for England to get in a safe position.
Will be interesting to see what happens from here ???
Bells just playing badly tbf,Hes shuffling about, not really committing and then playing wafty shots like its a M5
Cook. Baring the odd Ill advised cut and a couple of edges/misses has looked really good. Has to be our best player of spin as well
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No Sky Sports so can't see what is going on. Only listening to the odd bit of commentary.
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Think its safe to say pete its a twitchy start from bell
He must know he needs runs today as taylor could take his place...
Tracking it on bbc txt...
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Tuffers saying "he's all over Bell and feels that he has half a chance of getting Bell here!"
The form Bell has been on, I suspect that this would be the same for most bowlers at any level at the moment!!
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Is anyone watching it live? Commentary would seem to indicate Bell all over the place with chances flying around and 1 run off 27 balls??
Has he gone in the head?
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Just been dropped.nightmare facing spin out of form-use your feet and miss it you look like a fool,stay back and your a sitting duck
Plant you front foot and have a swing? Village!!
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Is anyone watching it live? Commentary would seem to indicate Bell all over the place with chances flying around and 1 run off 27 balls??
Has he gone in the head?
Doesn't look particularly comfortable against spin, again. That being said an impressive opening session, Cook looks at ease and carrying his weight.
And Tuffers is still out there for TMS? He's supposed to be hosting out end of season awards on Saturday
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would have liked to have seen Gary Ballance on these tracks - right temperment
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Is anyone watching it live? Commentary would seem to indicate Bell all over the place with chances flying around and 1 run off 27 balls??
Has he gone in the head?
Ian bells highlights........
http://youtu.be/mrgGjIo6QU0 (http://youtu.be/mrgGjIo6QU0)
I wonder if the bat used by key in the demo was fully manufactured from start to finish by sky's master batmaker or merely a labelled up import........
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They showed stats that Cook/Compton have the best average opening partnership of 59 while others were around mid-20's. Bazid Khan asked David Lloyd about Compton and he said that to keep Root in the team Compton had to go.
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Captains cook to his ton! Can he make it a daddy.
Bell hanging in there.
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Cooks new GN Players bat doing the biz, another typical hard working Cook hundred. Keep piling them on Chef!!
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Old schools captains innings this from Cook, looks in for the long haul.
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Love you Cooky
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So happy he has stopped playing pyjama cricket so he can focus on tests. Class act opener
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Cook in his element on these kinda flat dead pitches. No pace or swing to expose his limited ability.
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Cook in his element on these kinda flat dead pitches. No pace or swing to expose his limited ability.
lol - click bait is back.
I suppose those decks in Australia in 10/11 were dead when he scored those big hundreds? Of course he can't play swing, coming from England. In Asia he has a better conversion rate than Lara and joint top of overseas players in terms of centuries (with Kallis). Maybe give him some credit where it's due? He probably has more test hundreds in Asia than current Australian top 6.
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A hundred is a hundred, doesn't matter if the conditions are helpful or not, you've still got the get 'em!
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lol - click bait is back.
I suppose those decks in Australia in 10/11 were dead when he scored those big hundreds? Of course he can't play swing, coming from England. In Asia he has a better conversion rate than Lara and joint top of overseas players in terms of centuries (with Kallis). Maybe give him some credit where it's due? He probably has more test hundreds in Asia than current Australian top 6.
Kallis didn't boost his stats by feasting on Bangladesh.
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When the the pitch become a road? Just because it's not a raging green top doesn't make it a road. I'm sure the Pakistani fast bowlers will get more out of the pitch.
Cook in his element on these kinda flat dead pitches. No pace or swing to expose his limited ability.
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Kallis didn't boost his stats by feasting on Bangladesh.
And Cook scoring a ton in his first test against kumble and co was fluke?
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
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Beat me to it @smilley792 :D
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Nick - I wouldn't bother replying to him!
Don't waste your time!!
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And Cook scoring a ton in his first test against kumble and co was fluke?
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Spot on
Cook's entire career is about quantity over quality.
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angling for a big one................................
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being 12th on all time list of test run scorers (2nd highest scoring opener and will pass the other soon enough)
14th highest century maker with more to come
will pass 10k test runs and prob finish in the top 6 run scorers ever
I'd take that with ltd ability
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being 12th on all time list of test run scorers (2nd highest scoring opener and will pass the other soon enough)
14th highest century maker with more to come
will pass 10k test runs and prob finish in the top 6 run scorers ever
I'd take that with ltd ability
Cook going passed Gavaskar will prove what? Gavaskar was twice the batsman Cook will ever be.
And Cook with an average of 46/47 might fluke 12,000/13,000 runs but will be the less talented. More to do with these flat docile pitches in modern cricket.
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You realise Cook is very likely going to beat Tendulkar's test run record?
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Id be happy fluking 12/13k test runs as its not all about talent its what you do with the talent you've got
Gavaskar was awesome and watching him stand up to the WI quartet was something special but you can only play against what is in front of you
unless we are saying no batsmen from now can be considered great due to pitches and bowlers so smith root kholi may as well retire
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Masuri stem guard to the rescue!!!!
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Very glad he was wearing that stem guard!
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Graeme Swann's just selected his XI for this test and this test alone on TMS...
Cook, Ali, Bell, Root, Bairstow (wk), Stokes, Rashid, Broad, Sidebottom, Wood, Anderson
Sidebottom, as he's the top left armer in England and would provide rough for the spinners
Also thought this post may divert from feeding the troll ;)
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Cook in his element on these kinda flat dead pitches. No pace or swing to expose his limited ability.
This Aussie has yet to write somthing constructive Imo hes only on here to slag England off agree with Peter he's best ignored.
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I am pretty sure mine would absolutely be:
Cook, Hales, Bell, Root, Taylor, Bairstow (wk), Stokes, Ali, Rashid, Broad, Anderson
Drop Buttler until he finds the form and confidence that we hope he will, plus drop Woods as too many seamers on this wicket.
Or if there is a stubbornness to drop Buttler, then:
Cook, Ali, Bell, Root, Taylor, Bairstow, Stokes, Buttler (wk), Rashid, Broad, Anderson
So much stronger with batting and should still have more than enough bowling!
One change to fielding is to remove Bell from slips ;)
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I do think Bumble had a point after having a left armer in the side in these sort of conditions, hopefully one day Mr. Willey gets a go.
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Oooh look!! we scored a run!! That was exciting.
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We are 1 down and nearly batted 4 sessions.(Pakistan batted just over 5)
We are still 299 behind Pakistan. So a collapse could see us lose, we are obviously aiming for a draw but some pickup in run rate will help that cause!
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cook has come out with a game plan to just bat for as long as possible so no chance of pivking up rate
bell is batting for his place so being over cautious so no chance of quicker rate there
if rooooooooooot gets in I think things will pick up as he will play naturally as in great form and sure of his place
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I fail to see how Buttler is retaing his spot, he doesn't score any runs. Bairstow is a better test bat and just as good a keeper, if anyone is blocking Taylor getting into the team it's Buttler.
And the ICC need to do something about these pitches, we are basically watching a 5 day outdoor net. I'll stay with test cricket through thick and thin, but the majoritywill switch off and move on.
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We'll get 200 ahead and Adileen will spin them out on a minefield for victory!!
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We'll get 200 ahead and Adileen will spin them out on a minefield for victory!!
is this on day 10?? hahaha :D
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Kallis didn't boost his stats by feasting on Bangladesh.
I agree, Cook's stats have been padded... by feasting on hopeless Aussies.
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this pitch is a great advert of why they brought in time limits on test matches
we would be here till 2016 on this
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We'll get 200 ahead and Adileen will spin them out on a minefield for victory!!
Plums in the cool box England gonna win!!!
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wouldn't go that far. IF England bat well until the end of Day 4, then we might be at parity or 50 ahead/behind. We might cause a few moments of discomfort on Day 5 if we get parity but I think the wicket is probably going thwart everyone.
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Alastair you top lad.
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I think if England bat that long they wont bowl Anderson Broad or Wood much as will save them for next test so this will filter out into a cure for insomnia very quickly
Cook may even break out the Bob Willis impression
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I wasn't being serious, but so far England have done all they can.
i'm a batsman and have to say I think these wickets are only harming test cricket. Yes you would want Pakistan playing a part in world cricket same as everyone else......but it's boring and does nothing for the game..
much prefer it when the game is tipped to the bowler, that way when you score runs it matters.
Look at players averages these days. Add 5 points on as the wickets are so flat.
This one is just a motorway, no one is getting out unless they get tired. Good for the game??
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it is the way now as boards want 5 days of cricket so they get gate receipts
not here as ground empty but that's what most do as they can make more dosh like that
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THE MOST BORING DAY EVER!!!
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THE MOST BORING DAY EVER!!!
Yep and I took a tool day to watch this!!! Dam you dead pithc. Dam you
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it is the way now as boards want 5 days of cricket so they get gate receipts
not here as ground empty but that's what most do as they can make more dosh like that
sadly you are right, generally they want advertising,tv etc to have maximum exposure. In this match there's not many fans actually watching and I doubt there will be at the other venues.
Raja is saying on BBC text the other wickets will be exactly like this one....
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will be good for one dayers then as run fests but they may not come on enough for hitting
all about the £$ now not the cricket
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People are bored? I could honestly watch Cook do this all day, which I have done.
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I like TEST cricket not when its weighted too far either way
there should be a contest, its not so bad in ODI and t") is designed for batsmen but tests should be a test not just 500 plays 500
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RR at 2.7 on a slow low pitch with nothing to offer, not the greatest to create exciting viewing even if Cook is batting like a star
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I'm happy to listen and not watch when it is like this! If it was more competitive then I would be gutted that I could only listen!!
But let's not write this match off just yet!! Only day 3 so anything can happen!!
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Bell bell bell! So close
Night watchmen to make 200?
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Bell should have filled his boots here. Silly shot 15 mins before the close of play.
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Better he got an ugly 60 than his standard 10-20 then out.
I'll give any player some slack after batting all day in 38 degree heat and playing a loose shot. Probably his first attacking shot for 10 overs as well...
The low scoring rate wouldn't have been the case if we'd batted first. With Bell out, we lost another quickly and that could easily have been a frontline batsman. Then your 3 or 4 down with almost 300 runs behind. They're trying to strangle the game and in that heat and with that total from Pakistan first up, I don't blame them...
I agree it's not good for the spectator though, but in a 3 game series you don't want to be one down first up...
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Don't know why everybody is so upset about the pitch. Try sitting through this snorefest:-
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63899.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63899.html)
Thorpe got 1 boundary before his ton.
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Funny how people ridicule flat pitches yet not many have achieved what Aliastar Cook has, he now has eight centuries in Asia and most likely will score more in following innings.
Certainly not an easy feat considering all the great player(s) of preceding era weren't able to score such!
Everyone is better in their home conditions, what Cook has achieved in England is not what Sachin Tendulkar has achieved in England and vice versa!
Kudos to Cook, as someone said a century is century. Leading the team when you are one of the two batsman who have played in this country/conditions/opponent is never easy.
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I find it funny how people seem to want ashes style wham bang thank you mam wickets. This last ashes was one of the worst series I've seen due to low skills and batsmen who clearly only play one day wham bang style innings. Warner, Dahwan etc are classic examples of modern hitter players who simply get away with it in tests due to low skills bowling and flat tracks
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3 days in. 10 wickets have fallen(one of which was a nights watchmen) and the team batting are still 200 plus behind.
If you turn off your "I don't like boundaries" blinkers, do you honestly think this is a results wicket?
And by that I mean one of these side has to take 20 wickets! Which I doubt is gonna happen in ten days, never mind five.
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3 days in. 10 wickets have fallen(one of which was a nights watchmen) and the team batting are still 200 plus behind.
If you turn off your "I don't like boundaries" blinkers, do you honestly think this is a results wicket?
And by that I mean one of these side has to take 20 wickets! Which I doubt is gonna happen in ten days, never mind five.
I actually agree with you that 500 plays 500 is Boring.l 400 in tests should be rare, let alone 500 but.. But, if either side had a decent spinner it would be interesting to see how many more wickets would have fallen. Simple fact is, both sides bowling isn't great and neither side has a spinner of any note.
It's better bowlers are found out when they aren't good enough rather than given easy wickets which mask their skill. Ali simply isn't good enough but has been masked by wickets and poor batting.
I love boundaries btw, just not all the time because that shows its too easy. This wicket isn't a good wicket but it's no worse to me than the wickets we had this summer which promoted wham bang test cricket. Keep those players in pyjamas not proper stuff
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Agree...neither side has good spinner. Also, these kind of matches can suddenly come alive on day 4 and 5. Combo of reverse swing and good spin can create funny scorecards
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In fairness to the spinners of both teams, I think the historic average of spinners at this ground is around 118! So no surprises really, clearly the track is even flatter than is usual there.
I personally thought the pitches for the Ashes were mostly excellent this summer and a good standard for English test pitches. Unfortunately pitches over the last 10-15 years have been so flat that techniques have changed and batsman are going to have to relearn how to play long test innings if pitches like them keep being produced (which they should be!). It's certainly possible, Root was making good tons on them after all. Standard of bowling from England in particular was very high too, and modern Aus teams can't play swing at all.
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That stumping was never out! Poor poor decision! (For those watching sky may understand)
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That stumping was never out! Poor poor decision! (For those watching sky may understand)
Will always do that myself instead of just trying to get my foot back, haha
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Will always do that myself instead of just trying to get my foot back, haha
Think umpire gave it merely for the awful awful moo.
And
England avoid the follow on!!
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Rooooooooooooottttttt
50 up with a reverse sweep.
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REVERSE SWEEP ROOTY
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Could watch that last shot from Root to third man all day - doesn't take his eyes off the ball all the way to blade, thing of beauty!
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anyone else noticed the guests on the verdict have nothing to talk about :)
apart from the spat between Sohail and Butch on whether Cook is 'wristy' or not?
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anyone else noticed the guests on the verdict have nothing to talk about :)
apart from the spat between Sohail and Butch on whether Cook is 'wristy' or not?
Haven't watched a verdict yet, but yesterday dinner they showed England vs India replay as "there isn't much to discuss so far today" wee the words out off the sky team.
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Cook hasn't broken a sweat, outstanding knock
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Well batted Alastair. Lovely double ton.
Now for another 200!
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you've got to admire someone like Cook who really goes big when he gets a ton. remarkable achievement of concentration.
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Cook's levels of concentration are almost unbelievable, he's been out there for what, ten sessions now? Including ten hours of batting? Unreal.
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No chance of a result, England should just aim to bat out the test and grind the Pakistan players into the dust, while at the same time letting their bowlers put their feet up before the 2nd test.
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No chance of a result, England should just aim to bat out the test and grind the Pakistan players into the dust, while at the same time letting their bowlers put their feet up before the 2nd test.
I was just thinking the same thing, no chance of a result now, grind em down and let Cook go after Lara's 400 haha :D
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Agreed - got to look to the next few tests now and no better way of getting an edge than literally roasting the opposition in the field. Time to get your test averages up boys. Fill ya booties
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I think England will bat until some point mid afternoon tomorrow (if they don't get bowled out). The wicket isn't getting any worse so a collapse is unlikely. Let Rashid and Ali have a bit more practise and call it a draw.
Good chance for Cook to score 400 if they bat out the 5th day.
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When does the second test start?
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I think England will bat until some point mid afternoon tomorrow (if they don't get bowled out). The wicket isn't getting any worse so a collapse is unlikely. Let Rashid and Ali have a bit more practise and call it a draw.
Good chance for Cook to score 400 if they bat out the 5th day.
I'd be tempted to try and bat the full five days - keep PAkistan's bowlers out in the middle for as long as humanly possible and keep your own bowlers fresh.
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When does the second test start?
Thursday I think
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Prepare for every amateur cricketer under 21 marking there guard with a stump next year!!
Cheers root.
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Still thoroughly enjoying this, for all the talk of summer and games ending in 3 days etc this makes a change. Don't think it'd be fair to use this match as an indication of test cricket dying out.
Bumble calling that other match was amazing
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Cook with he reverse sweep.......ugly is being kind.
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Is cook tired? Do England have a new game plan?
2 poor(by international standards) reverse sweeps followed by some flails outside off and an edge not carrying.
Root needs to have words! DIg in cook we want 300!!!!
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A case of Cook hogging the strike and Root loosing concentration?
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I'd be tempted to try and bat the full five days - keep PAkistan's bowlers out in the middle for as long as humanly possible and keep your own bowlers fresh.
+1
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Rahat Ali has bowled nicely and with excellent control. If he had Riaz's pace he'd but more of a handful
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Really poor shot from Root
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If I was Joe Root I'd be furious with myself for throwing away what would have been one of the most trouble free tons he will ever make.
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Anyone else see 426/4 in their cricinfo tab and panic...then fist pump when u realise it was root and not cook out. Keep going Chef!!!!
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No!!
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******READ THIS UPDATE ON THE CRICKET*******
'Cook feeling slightly wary but hoping to add a few more after tea'
keep going son
:)
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Balls
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Cook needs 175 runs of 64 balls to beat Lara's balls faced to 400.........
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England fans are so fickle!
All the comments going into TMS are now calling for Bairstow to be dropped, the lad has only just got back into the side, and only a couple of games ago scored more runs than the Australian side!
How does anyone expect a side to develop if there's a change of personel every 3 Tests?!?!
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England fans are so fickle!
All the comments going into TMS are now calling for Bairstow to be dropped, the lad has only just got back into the side, and only a couple of games ago scored more runs than the Australian side!
How does anyone expect a side to develop if there's a change of personel every 3 Tests?!?!
I was thinking exactly the same thing, one low score apparently makes you useless nowadays. English sports fans can be shockingly fickle at times.
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Cook!!!!!
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Stokes' trickling this along very nicely, just hoping he doesn't start being stupidly aggressive.
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Sounds as though Riaz has bowled well finding reverse swing with some real pace!
Can't believe how much concentration Cook has! Unreal!!
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Dear Alastair Cook,
I love you.
Regards
Alex
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Well done, Captain Cook!!!!!
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hang onto your hats lads we are about to go into the lead...
:)
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Well batted skipper! Keep going. Keep going.
Has anyone done every session of a game before?
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Well done that man, don't throw it away now, that 300 is there for the taking!
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Stokes to 50 and England now in the lead!! Common boys.
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300 for Cook? Nope.
Bat all day tomorrow and get to 401* and completely knacker their bowling attack. Game is lost anyway. Stoke smashes a quick ton, then Buttler can smack his way into form in the last 2 sessions of the match.
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Stokes just ran past one by the sounds of things!
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It turned abit.
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Let's see how Buttler goes now!
It's unlikely that he'll get a better opportunity to score a few runs than right now!
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That a life for jos? Seemed a noise and abit of glove on replay!
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noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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That a life for jos? Seemed a noise and abit of glove on replay!
Definitely I thought.
Nooooooooooooooo Cook!
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Gutted. Batted skipper, such a classy knock.
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NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Alistair cook is out.
as there is no one watching i'm going to stand and applaud at my work desk.
can I suggest the whole forum does too
brilliant :)
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Hold on, that's a no ball, surely?
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I thought they checked no balls every wicket
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Depends on what the rule is! Controversial though
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Where foot lands is the rule
NO BALL
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SIX
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Four and out!
23 with 2 chances in it on this road
Might be worth a small punt on England. Pakistan might "collapse"
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Pinched from BBC Text but made me chuckle: "Very disappointing. Cook got himself in, got a start but didn't go on. Needs to learn to sell his wicket more dearly."
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Starting to spin so maybe give rashid a bit of confidence if he picks up a few
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Might as well throw their hands at it now and see what happens.
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Where foot lands is the rule
NO BALL
Benefit of the doubt goes to the bowler, they need to see the heel clearly first touch the ground on/in front of the line. Without slow-mo camera it's not ideal.
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Benefit of the doubt goes to the bowler, they need to see the heel clearly first touch the ground on/in front of the line. Without slow-mo camera it's not ideal.
According to the Law, they don't!
"For a delivery to be fair in respect of the feet, in the delivery stride... the bowler's front foot must land with some part of the foot, whether grounded or raised... behind the popping crease."
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That's what I thought so it was a no ball
They seem to check every wicket for a no ball
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I'm not entirely sure what England were doing for the last hour. Stokes/Buttler were trying to get on with it but seemed a bit late in the day when you have plodded along for 175 overs. England have a 46 run lead but it's not enough to put any real pressure on Pakistan and they now only have 2 wickets left instead of 4.
Having charged along at 2.7 an over, the sensible thing might of been to build a decent lead tomorrow morning and get 100-125 in front. Then have 60 odd overs to induce a collapse and minimise wear on the pace bowlers. The bonus being Pakistan wouldn't be in front until well after tea, so if a collapse did happen England could sneak a win.
Can't help thinking now we will bat on and get 60 in front and then end up bowling 80+ overs on a baking hot day. Pakistan will be enough in front by tea to make the last session pointless. Probably copping a few injuries in the process!
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Benefit of the doubt goes to the bowler, they need to see the heel clearly first touch the ground on/in front of the line. Without slow-mo camera it's not ideal.
In the case where there is an out as the result of an appeal, if there is any doubt, it should go to the batsman.
The issue here is that international umpires have stopped looking for no-balls, and revert to the TV replay in the case of an appeal. This was confirmed by one of the ICC umpiring board in the Ashes this summer, and the reason is that they don't want to look stupid if they inadvertently call a no-ball that isn't. There were a lot of uncalled no-balls in the summer, and frankly, it isn't good enough.
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Getting up at 7am on a Saturday morning to watch a test match that's not really going anywhere. Living the dream.
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J I M M Y
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It's possible the most exciting this game has been all test match.
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Looked like quite a big deviation as the ball went past the bat.... Followed up by a shot of a man who knew he was out
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Erm hang on hafeez just edged that straight to butler? Thats out!!! Pak should be three down-am i missing something?
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that was clearly out. Rameez is lying! apparently there is no hot spot/snicko in this series.
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That looked out. 3rd Umps bottled it after first innings mess up?
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that was clearly out. Rameez is lying! apparently there is no hot spot/snicko in this series.
All down to the host broadcaster and what they're willing to pay. Shame.
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38 overs into his debut Rashid bags his first maiden in Test cricket.
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BEN STOKES BEST FIELDER IN THE WORLD
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Oh dear! Bit of a mix up!!n 3 down and a bit of panic starting to set in?
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Pakistan need to keep their heads now or they could be in trouble!
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The Pakistan fix is on ;)
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Stokes just seems to have that but of magic about him
Picked up 4 in first innings (maybe cheap but all count) cheeky 50 and top run out
Kind of player that does nothing nothing then magic
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Stokes just seems to have that but of magic about him
Picked up 4 in first innings (maybe cheap but all count) cheeky 50 and top run out
Kind of player that does nothing nothing then magic
I think that's the way his England career will wind up; moments of absolute brilliance like Lords against New Zealand followed by sporadic moments of nothing much. I dunno if all the comparisons with Flintoff will do him any good either
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You have to take the good with the bad
Like Gayle or sewag (not that I'm saying he is in their class yet) other teams play those players as they will frustrate like hell then win the game out of no where
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The longer Stokes plays and the more settled he is in the team, the more consistent he'll get. Especially if he can persuade England to stop dropping catches off his bowling all the time! Comfortably the most talented pace bowling all rounder in the world, hopefully England continue to back him and we see more and more great cricket as a result!
Could get a bit squeaky bum time for Pakistan here...
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The longer Stokes plays and the more settled he is in the team, the more consistent he'll get. Especially if he can persuade England to stop dropping catches off his bowling all the time! Comfortably the most talented pace bowling all rounder in the world, hopefully England continue to back him and we see more and more great cricket as a result!
Could get a bit squeaky bum time for Pakistan here...
Is there a better fielder in the world at the moment as well? Apart from maybe AB and Maxwell, can't think of many who are in the same league.
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Stokes could be the perfect all-rounder. Decent pace bowler, decent bat and top fielder! But need to keep him settled.
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The Pakistan fix is on ;)
Unfortunately inwas thinking the same and had several texts saying it without me even mentioning it. Cheating isn't something people forget unless they really don't care.
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Funky field if nothing else
6 close in on leg side 3 close in on off side
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Hmmm - at what point does this become bore-fest, non-result game and we stop flogging Broady and Jimmy into the ground?
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When did the rules change????????
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At what point does the drs become a farce. How can England lose a review for that?
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I'm sure it used to be that if on review you were out in any mode you were out
So out lbw but not out as ump gave it caught
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Interesting shout on the lbw/ caught. Brave from an umpire to say my decision was so bad originally that I thought he was caught. So not out... even though he was out :(
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Ok I get it now
The lbw was not out so went with umpires call but if all 3 were out it would have been out
Confusing as hell though
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Just realised England don't, Mishnah reviewed. Haha
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Hmmm - at what point does this become bore-fest, non-result game and we stop flogging Broady and Jimmy into the ground?
I get the standard is very high but, with the keeper standing up and no crowd, it has the feel of a Sunday village game dragging on into the evening.
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I don't get it. for Jimmy Anderson's sweep shot the drs was looking at both caught and lbw?
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Wait, what?
So Misbah was given out and reviewed it, DRS said he was out but he was given not out on umpires call?
If it was given out and DRS says out how is that not out? ???
Umpiring has been a joke all game...
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Looking forward to a Bob Willis meltdown about drs later.
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As per the law it was the correct decision
He was given out caught so to be given out lbw all 3 Hawkeye points had to be out for it to be given lbw but as wickets was umpires call as he was given not out lbw so stays with that call
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RASHID HAS A WICKET!
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and maybe another?
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2 for rashid!
Still not the finished article, but bowling much better in this innings, and used a lot more than Ali is being to.
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Rashid is unplayable! He's ripping the Pakistan batting apart! ;)
Just kidding! But seriously seems to be settling in and bowling a little better finally.
Just need to get the reliable Misbah out and there could be some nerves kick in! Still think this has a draw written all over it though!
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i sincerely doubt this will be anything other than a draw now
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That looked village from Misbah!
Ali strikes!! 6 down.
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i sincerely doubt this will be anything other than a draw now
Unless Misbah does something something stupid like that.
A few more foolish decisions to throw their wicket away and there is an outside chance.
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alright then
into the bowlers, skittle them quickly and then stokes and ali power a 100 partnership to win the game?
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i sincerely doubt this will be anything other than a draw now
Say it again!!
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Not enough overs left!! :(
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It's a big if.
But you reckon root and Ali will open if we get to chase something?
Or Ali bell root stokes get to smash it while cook stays there?
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7th wicket down
i guess i may be wrong the first time
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Some bounce from Ali there!!
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Interesting next half hour or so...
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Result is possible!
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Except Sarfaraz, no more batsmen left for Pakistan. Times are tough.
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8 down with 23 overs left
lets make this a t20!
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Catch jimmmyyyyyyyyy
Rashids 3rd, 8 down.
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Not a fan of catch replays!! Finger looks under. Move on!!
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well that took a while to give it
so after getting 0 for a few hundred, the two spinners now have 5 between them
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Rashids 4th
Should have took the run safraz!!!
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Come on Adil!
get a 5-fer now!!!
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And that's how you wrap up a tail!!
Five for on debut, well bowled rashid!!
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Got him!!!
99 to win now
get in Rashid
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haha the Pakistan fix was always on the cards, hope you all got on England earlier ;)
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Sooooo... boring test match, rashid is the worst debutant ever... Not a bit of it! Well bowled lad, here's hoping we can chase them! Wonder if we'll change the batting order. 19 overs and fading light.
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Ok - so maybe Misbah & Co were down the bookies before play this morning, betting on England to pull it off - great odds this morning!
It still could be tight! And if England go too hard then they may snatch a defeat from the jaws of victory!!
Cook has to drop down the order and be the safe option in case we lose wickets by going too hard at them!
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AllOutCricket were maybe right?
Best test ever statistically
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Is that Stokes opening?
Love that intent if he is
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T20 without fielding restrictions.....
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Buttler and Ali to open!
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It's Moeen and Buttler
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Buttlerrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!
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1 down 98 to go
then a great reverse sweep
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Good time for a bit of pressure-free batting for Buttler to play his natural attacking game.
If it comes off, brilliant, if it doesn't, was a good call either way.
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In the case where there is an out as the result of an appeal, if there is any doubt, it should go to the batsman.
It really should, however like DRS, the benefit of the doubt goes the way of the original umpires decision, which was a fair ball. You're right though, the modern day umpire does not pay attention too and call no-balls, which is worrying. I saw some old footage recently and the umpire would turn his head downwards and clearly look for a no-ball, modern umpires maybe glance down if they can be bothered.
In other news, good to see the Pakistanis back at their match-fixing best; all out for 178 on a lifeless road to gift you Englishmen a real sniff at victory in what should have been a draw. Good thing I put a sneaky tenner on you fellas 48 hours ago ;)
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oh no...
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will we see a repeat of that pak vs eng test (2001 I think) where Pak decided to time waste and it finished in the pitch dark.
Buttler wasting further time by reviewing, eating another 5 mins!
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Stokes in next? Or Bell?
Edit: Root is, hmmmm
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Sure that's a no ball isn't it,
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Quicks would have taken time, spinners go tru their overs at a good rate ...Misbah wants to take wickets.
will we see a repeat of that pak vs eng test (2001 I think) where Pak decided to time waste and it finished in the pitch dark.
Buttler wasting further time by reviewing, eating another 5 mins!
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Rooteh now
at least if the ump does do a 2001 it wont be pitch black because of the floodlights
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All this talk about Pakistan and cheating, and it turns out nz were just as bad.
Now we gonna enjoy the cricket or just constantly bring up the crap past?
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I hope there is a enquiry into the betting, this test whilst it's come alive feels like Pakistan are creating a game out of it.
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Spinners continue, Misbah is huning for wickets.
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All this talk about Pakistan and cheating, and it turns out nz were just as bad.
Now we gonna enjoy the cricket or just constantly bring up the crap past?
Exactly. And if getting out cheaply on a "road" was the criteria, just look at the last eng pak series
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Wish I'd put more on England to win at 10/1 this morning...
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Ali gone.
2 down 70 needed.
Stokes next??
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Collapse is on!
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Collapse is on!
I wonder what the bookies odds are of a Pakistan win :P
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Oh Benji :(
I thought this was the day he'd see us home.
Over to yo Jonny B - wait bug revuew as I type that
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Bairstow? Isn't it time Cook steps in to make for the draw.
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YOOOOOOOOOOOOOORKSHIRE
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the modern day umpire does not pay attention too and call no-balls, which is worrying. I saw some old footage recently and the umpire would turn his head downwards and clearly look for a no-ball, modern umpires maybe glance down if they can be bothered.
That may be the case, but on the up-side, they'll be no more spot-fixing issues with no balls like those Pakistani got done for a few years ago :-)
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Bairstow? Isn't it time Cook steps in to make for the draw.
Send in Barstow, rashid and bell before cook. Go for the win, then if you can't win.. Block it out.,as all cricket should be. Try to win, if you can't, then deny the oppos
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JONNY B GOOD
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Completely missed that one
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Send in Barstow, rashid and bell before cook.
And Broad and Wood. Poor Cooky scores 268 odd in the 1st dig and comes in at 10 in the second :D
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Clockface!!!!!!!
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Pakistan slowing it all down, will the umpires take it into account?
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Game off. Time wasting has saved Pakistan .
For the cynics, did they bet on that.........
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Surly umpires should have let the game run it's course
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Timewasting wins the day. Time to announce a 25 run penalty for slowing the game down? Can't blame Pakistan when there's no downside to them doing it. A shame the days have ended so early throughout this test.
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Game off. Time wasting has saved Pakistan .
For the cynics, did they bet on that.........
Cash out ;). Doesn't mean bookies don't trade odds. Doesn't always have to be a result to make a massive profit
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What the assflaps are these post match awards about? Most colourful innings?
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Timewasting wins the day. Time to announce a 25 run penalty for slowing the game down? Can't blame Pakistan when there's no downside to them doing it. A shame the days have ended so early throughout this test.
Set an over rate, if you are behind.. +25 per over missed.
Umpires need to stop batsmen messing about with gloves,meats, drinks etc. only allow in breaks. Stop batsmen messing about taking gloves on and off,mifmtheynsrent respady for the bowler then a warning,2 warnings and you're out (from bowlers normal run up so they can't just suddenly do a 2 step rather than 17 etc)
Would speed the game up, stop time wasting.mif you want the physio on, retire hurt and come back on later
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Surly umpires should have let the game run it's course
Have you tried facing a 135km/85mph bowler in the dark with a scuffed up red ball? It's for the batsman's safety.
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Have you tried facing a 135km/85mph bowler in the dark with a scuffed up red ball? It's for the batsman's safety.
So those floodlights don't do anything?
Last time I checked they played day night games where those floodlights were the only thing making it possible to see the ball. Why's it safer to face a scuffed up white ball than a scuffed up red one?
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Have you tried facing a 135km/85mph bowler in the dark with a scuffed up red ball? It's for the batsman's safety.
Only allow spinners but you should always bowl the allotted overs
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Have you tried facing a 135km/85mph bowler in the dark with a scuffed up red ball? It's for the batsman's safety.
Why not ask the batsmen if they want to carry on then?
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Sooooo... boring test match, rashid is the worst debutant ever... Not a bit of it! Well bowled lad, here's hoping we can chase them! Wonder if we'll change the batting order. 19 overs and fading light.
one wonders if @Buzz is enjoying cream or custard with his humble pie? :) ;) :)
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So those floodlights don't do anything?
Last time I checked they played day night games where those floodlights were the only thing making it possible to see the ball. Why's it safer to face a scuffed up white ball than a scuffed up red one?
Floodlights are nowhere near as good as natural light. Yep and in Day/Night games they use a brighter coloured ball for the batsman's safety, at this time, my club often trains until dusk under floodlights yet we switch to white balls when the lights come on. Trust me, it's really a big difference.
There's a reason that bad light exists in cricket.
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I don't buy the safety argument in this instance as Bairstow pummelled a 85mph Wahab Riaz bouncer for 6, only minutes earlier.
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England would of done exactly the same as Pakistan, so I have no complaints.
However these situations should be handled better by the ICC and looking into run rate penalties if the over rate slips is one angle. To keep it simple, the third umpire should inform the on field umpire when an over is lost and the current run rate rounded up should be applied for the lost over in the form of penalty runs. The other thing is to allow floodlights to be used for a maximum of 30 minutes to finish the game, hopefully still making it playable for both teams before it gets dangerous.
I do like the bucknor school of umpiring though. Waste time and you'll stay out here until we made it up!
I think England would of got home in 3/4 more overs.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
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it just stinks
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Have you tried facing a 135km/85mph bowler in the dark with a scuffed up red ball? It's for the batsman's safety.
Played prem level and championship cricket for over 10 years and faced many 80odd mph bowlers at start and end of season when gets darker earlier, normally get my stumps removed but that's why I still play club and not international cricket mate.
Personally as a cricket fan think the law is flawed and Pakistain betrayed the gentlemans way to play the game, I know its international cricket etc and England may have done the same just don't think its right.
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No sanctimonious bs please. They went off at a fair time and we would have wasted as much time.
Amazing we got as close as we did.
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Agreed. It was ultimately within the rules of the game. We drew, and I guess we were lucky to get as close as we did. Would have been very nice to have a 1-0 lead though.
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Poms crying about time wasting when you forget your boys did the same in Cardiff 2009...Get off your high horses.
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No sanctimonious bs please. They went off at a fair time and we would have wasted as much time.
Amazing we got as close as we did.
No bs at all mate, just don't personally agree with it, after the verdict on sky they had a cricket classic back to Karachi in 2000 and umpires basically punished Pakistan for time wasting maybe that should have happened again but I get and respect the rules that a consistent approach was followed all the way through
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Ah, Aussie is back, I thought it'd been strangely plesant on here lately...
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There should be a punishment for timewasting regardless of side.
I enjoy watching cricket and id be frustrated if England were doing it.
Maybe an over rate thing for last two hours of game, regardless if I result can happen or not.
Something similar to t20 were you get penalty runs added to your score(remember Yorkshire Lancashire t20 2014, Yorkshire was gonna lose until the runs were added for slow over rate)
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Some of these comments about Pakistan time wasting are pathetic. We'd do exactly the same and did do in Cardiff during the ashes when Shafayat kept bringing spare pairs of gloves out every over.
Over rates are a different story though, something seriously needs to be done. I watched the start of the first couple of days before leaving for work and it was terrible. 10-11 overs an hour. Theireshould be penalty runs applied across the board.
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Yep!! As annoying as it is, time for a few members to get off their high-horses and accept that it's part of the game, we would have done it, and until the umpires have the balls to step in and move things along, nothing will change.
I think we ended up doing far better than I thought, and I'm delighted for Rashid.
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England should be proud of not succumbing to the scoreboard pressure, like the Aussies. Yes, a few extra minutes could have helped, but thats just luck. So many things could have added up to provide that extra time - a faster run rate when England was batting, one less review, etc etc.
Just plain old bad luck. No point making things distasteful by talking about the "spirit" of the game (EVERY single team, including England.. has done, and will do, what Pak were doing towards the end).
So..lets just look at the next two tests - clearly, its not going to be a dull series.
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Hopefully now Rashid has shown what he can do the england selectors will perserver with him and he will keep his place in the team.
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Totally agree with the above (brokenbat comment) Any team would have tried everything they know to delay things if they were looking down the barrel of defeat!! Pakistan are no different than any other competitive team! We just needed an extra 10-20 minutes or so to knock the last few runs off but it just wasn't meant to be!
We can say "if only......" and if this person had of done this, and if that person hadn't of done that....but we drew the first Test which isn't a bad thing!
From being hammered last time we played Pakistan in these conditions, we are suddenly looking a lot stronger! We batted well. And if even 1 of the Bell catches from the first innings had been held and Broad hadn't of overstepped, then Pakistan wouldn't have put on too many runs!! So this is proof that they are beatable in these conditions! And that England can bat and bowl in these conditions - so those are massive the positives that we need to take from this game!
Looking at Pakistan's record here - if I had of been offered this draw in the first Test, I would have taken it!! So hopefully England can continue to build on this! :)
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For me the failure of the umpires to hurry Pakistan to bowl there overs was disappointing one over from Raiz took eight minutes also allowing Pakistan to bowl just 11 overs in the one hour available is unacceptable.
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Poms crying about time wasting when you forget your boys did the same in Cardiff 2009...Get off your high horses.
Seem to recall Austrialia doing the same at the Oval in 2013 to deny England a FOUR - NIL Ashes win.
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A professional test team should be able to bowl 18-19 overs per hour, any less and they are messing about or the batsmen are messing about (simply no need to drink or change gloves unless it's drinks).
Stamp it out the game and then fans will get full value for their cash, teams will have to earn their win/lose/draw. I do not blame any team for time wasting under th current rules as the umpires are so weak and they need to be far tougher.
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Seem to recall Austrialia doing the same at the Oval in 2013 to deny England a FOUR - NIL Ashes win.
Keep dreaming off ever beating Australia 4-0 in the Ashes as it will never happen.
But you enjoy the multiple time Australia have humped England 5-0
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Cricket really doesn't help itself with the light rules, some common sense is clearly needed when you're going off for bad light every day of a test match. Never mind the result, it spoils the spectacle. Timewasting is less of a problem, and actually sometimes adds a little drama, but some rules against it would probably be a good idea! Or we'll continue with every team doing it when they're fighting for a draw.
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Seniorplayer - if you overfeed trolls, they do tend to leave a lot of crap everywhere.
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Seniorplayer - if you overfeed trolls, they do tend to leave a lot of crap everywhere.
This is quite true...
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Seniorplayer - if you overfeed trolls, they do tend to leave a lot of crap everywhere.
Which is why senior player gets very little attention from me.
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Which is why senior player gets very little attention from me.
And why you get very little responses to your posts.....
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I don't blame Pakistan at all. Any other team would of done the same thing. I think the umpires and icc really need to do something about over rate.
There is no reason at all they can't bowl 90 overs in a day.
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Seniorplayer - if you overfeed trolls, they do tend to leave a lot of crap everywhere.
The said troll obviously has a major issue with the English! I can't work out whether the troll was bullied when he was a very young school boy by an English boy who used to flush his head down the toilet and kick him up the backside daily. Or whether the troll had an English boyfriend that he loved and adored, but that boyfriend left him for someone else?
Very sad whichever.....but it doesn't make the troll any less annoying! My sympathy for a sad case like he is only runs so deep!
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England set the tone in the first hour of the match with a turgid over rate and zero energy... bit rich to bleat five days later
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All teams do it at all times. As has been said it's something that the ICC should've sorted before now to be honest. I reckon only about 1/4 times the 12th man comes on is for a genuine reason, so for me like a 4th official in football, an official should be on the boundary to determine if the 12th man can go on, avoiding cases like yesterday with the Pak 12th man getting to the wicket for the ump to send him straight back. By going on the pitch he's still done his job, stopping him stepping over the boundary rope will reduce some time wasting. That and they need to actually be strict with over rates, I don't think I have actually seen a team get penalized runs for it, despite the rate rarely being achieved.
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these are all controversy causing proposals.. imagine if umpires penalize team X in one game, but team Y in another game is let off the hook for "genuine" reasons to take time.. why not just eliminate the time constraint of daylight....pink ball tests!!
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Keep dreaming off ever beating Australia 4-0 in the Ashes as it will never happen.
But you enjoy the multiple time Australia have humped England 5-0
slightly off topic but who currently holds the ashes??
and yeah england can feel hard done by but should we be celebrating the fact england started a tour well and nearly forced a result on dead wicket with two spinners most of us had written off during the first innnings?
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There has to be a clear directive from the ICC on overs that have to be bowled per hour/session. This is then reinforced by the match referee and umpires before and during every test.
Penalties? Docked/awarded runs, bans for captains and/or those deemed compliant (e.g. Riaz taking eight minutes. This is an example, I appreciate all teams have done this), possibly series bans for repeat offenders.
In games such as this drawn test, umpires would say to misbah at innings break, we expect to have X time left, you have to bowl Y overs or forfeit runs calculated possibly in the same way DL is.
But there needs to be the will. Slow.over rates and spectators being short changed has gone on far too long.
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So - do we think there are going to be any changes for the next test?
I would suggest Plunko for Wood, but that's about it.
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Depends on how Wood is feeling as to whether he or Plunkett plays, for the on change I reckon.
Nasser in a blog went from saying the only change he would make would be take Bell out of slip to saying keep him in because his 50 will have upped his confidence and to maybe bring Plunkett in!
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Definitely get Bell out of slip, perhaps put Bairstow at 2nd slip? Logic suggests a keeper should make a good slipper? I'd love to see Taylor get a go but barring an injury I don't think he will.
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I hear that Stokes is a doubt for tomorrow; could be a place for Patel and play 3 spinners?
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Dubai 'should' do a bit more, at least they are expecting the wicket to break up from last weeks M25
I would have Samit in and leave out Wood. And I think it's a close call but Taylor is a better player of spin than Bairstow.rate Bairstow very high but he's a hard handed player and Taylor has a more allround game for these conditions
talking about moving Bell out of slip, aside from Ian Botham have England ever had a better slip fielder(bowler) than Jimmy? he is outstanding....
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Id take Bell out of the tour! liability and last years man
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It'll be the same team, maybe they'll be ridiculous and swap Jordan for Wood
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if stokes isnt fit, jordan will play and id like to see taylor bat at three and move bell to 5 instead of bairstow
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World War III will happen before they move Bell down
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i know id still like to see it although it appears pigs will fly before they drop him too...
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It'll be the same team, maybe they'll be ridiculous and swap Jordan for Wood
don't get Jordan as a test match player. neither one thing or the other
brilliant fielder but you cant get into the team just on that?
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Bell has a stash of incriminating photos of Cook with one of his flock....
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don't get Jordan as a test match player. neither one thing or the other
brilliant fielder but you cant get into the team just on that?
Agreed. Jordan has no business being anywhere near the test team. He is an astonishing fielder but isn't a good enough bat or bowl at test level.
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I hear that Stokes is a doubt for tomorrow; could be a place for Patel and play 3 spinners?
Any idea what's up? I just caught the end of Cook on Sky sport news, so didn't quite catch what was up. It sounded to me like he wasn't injured just knackered so to speak.
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Something about a virus, but gut instinct to him suggests unchanged team. So there we go.
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just seen on sky sports cricket score centre that stokes is expected to be fit after a stomach bug
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Gut feeling is that Wood won't play - he's only ever managed back to back games once and that was...less than successful. Whether they'd go to Plunkett as the nearest like for like or to Patel as another source of variety is another matter.
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I think we'll be unchanged, Wood only bowled 29 overs in the whole test! Chance of Samit if it looks like a dust bowl though.
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If Woods only bowled 29 overs, then I still think we should rest Woods and bring Taylor in!!
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If Woods only bowled 29 overs, then I still think we should rest Woods and bring Taylor in!!
Agreed, if your third seamer only bowled 29 out of 210+ overs it shows you didn't really need him! No chance at all of that happening though sadly, although I think Taylor will be in at 5 by the end of the winter.
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Still be tempted myself to drop Buttler and give Jonny B the gloves.
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Is it me or is Ali the PR spokesmen for the team, every chance he gets, he's on tv or in the papers. Really is getting a bit boring.
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Still be tempted myself to drop Buttler and give Jonny B the gloves.
Agree with this!!
If worried about batting drop in JT, if want more bowling Samit or another seamer. Plunkett?
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Blimey! Surely we don't need more bowling! I think JT has to be the next in.....or maybe he should already be in!
Agree that Jos is still not performing with the bat yet. I would love to see him kick in soon, but it is amazing that he is still there after so long.
Others have barely been given a second match, so he has to count himself lucky!
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Samit Patel doesn't deserve to even be close to the England set-up - surprised people would consider letting him play!
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Samit Patel doesn't deserve to even be close to the England set-up - surprised people would consider letting him play!
Tend to agree. If a 3rd spin option is needed, is it not worth giving Root some more overs?
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Think Samit is a poor selection as a squad member never mind playing him in a test.
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If Ansari was fit to play, I suspect that Rashid would be 1st reserve and Patel would be at home with his feet up with pipe and slippers!
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yes but surely it shows the lack of spin options available to England...and maybe explains the clamour for Ansari to be in
samit's a talented cricketer but should of been playing at 22 not 32 for England.. he has(had) it all in his own hands....
spin......the cupboard really is bare.....Monty Panesar? someone on here referred to him as the best spinner in England last month....
again........he should be or No 1 after Swanny but does not even have a County. it's sad actually I think. what a waste.
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If Ansari was fit to play, I suspect that Rashid would be 1st reserve and Patel would be at home with his feet up with pipe and slippers!
I"m a big fan of Zafar, but I strongly disagee with the first part of this. Rashid was always going to play when they played two spinners.
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I"m a big fan of Zafar, but I strongly disagee with the first part of this. Rashid was always going to play when they played two spinners.
I don't think the plan was ever to play 4 seamers, Ansari would of batted 8 and bowled as part of a 3 spinner attack. He was probably insurance if Rashid/Ali had a shocker. Problem with playing Patel is he really isn't good enough to be anything but a Joe Root part timer. Even then Root is probably a better bowler.
I think at the moment getting Taylor in for Buttler isn't a bad move on turning decks. Not long term maybe, but Taylor strikes me as a very good player of spin.
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I don't think the plan was ever to play 4 seamers, Ansari would of batted 8 and bowled as part of a 3 spinner attack. He was probably insurance if Rashid/Ali had a shocker. Problem with playing Patel is he really isn't good enough to be anything but a Joe Root part timer. Even then Root is probably a better bowler.
I think at the moment getting Taylor in for Buttler isn't a bad move on turning decks. Not long term maybe, but Taylor strikes me as a very good player of spin.
I believe Ansari was picked as a reserve.
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Unchanged side, Pak win toss and bat.
COME ON LADS
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Ali strikes! Spinning already
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MO
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looks like a bit more in this wicket but it's gonna turn later on you just know it....
Yashir Shah could be the dangerman!
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looks like a bit more in this wicket but it's gonna turn later on you just know it....
Yashir Shah could be the dangerman!
Shah will almost certainly be the dangerman, he looks a class act.
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WHAT A CATCH
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come on lads!!! ive got a massive bet on of 2 cokes with my PAK team mate England upset the odds and win in Dubai
:)
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come on lads!!! ive got a massive bet on of 2 cokes with my PAK team mate England upset the odds and win in Dubai
:)
Well I hope for your sake England do it mate, I don't want to see you destitute after recklessly wagering such high stakes!
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3 down!!
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It was a really good toss to win! If it is starting to spin on day 1 then it will only get harder to bat on!
I suspect that whoever wins the toss will win the Test, as long as the spinners bowl well!
But will see if we bat well anyway. Still think we should only have played 3 pace bowlers, especially on this wicket!! Then give JT his place!!
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It was a really good toss to win! If it is starting to spin on day 1 then it will only get harder to bat on!
I suspect that whoever wins the toss will win the Test, as long as the spinners bowl well!
But will see if we bat well anyway. Still think we should only have played 3 pace bowlers, especially on this wicket!! Then give JT his place!!
what? have you had a coffee yet Pete? Pakistan won the toss but England are gonna win this test against the odds!!!
we got the momentum, we got the beard that is feared,we got ali cook who does not sweat after a 25 hour innings, we got Stokes and little dinky JT in reserve.
COME ON LADS WE CAN WIN THIS!!!!
:) :) :)
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Hope you are right but we will have to bat well!
No coffee this morning and no Sky Sports so can't see what's happening! But I do admit that England sound as if they are bowling and fielding well!
So Bairstow is at short leg and has taken two catches, one of which was an excellent quality catch? Imagine if Cook had of taken Bell out of second slip and replaced him with Bairstow and put Bell at short leg? Could have been a nightmare!!! LOL!
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cookie is morphing onto (Sir) Micheal Brearley
!!!!
haha
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Bell used to regularly field at short leg didn't he? I seem to remember him being particularly good there, could be mistaken though!
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England do need to break this partnership quite early though! Misbah and Khan are both very high quality and experienced batsmen and are capable of taking the game away from England! So fingers crossed ???
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bell was at boot hill for ages, took some blinders there. Don't think he is a natural slip but could be wrong he could well field there for Warwickshire.
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cook also was a short leg/ silly poinr under strauss and good at it too! i remember one stunner he took agaunst sri lnaka in that remarkable win in cardiff
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bell was at boot hill for ages, took some blinders there. Don't think he is a natural slip but could be wrong he could well field there for Warwickshire.
Bell's always been a lousy slipper, very good under the lid or in the covers though.
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WOODY
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New Bat for Misbah...
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Never seen that before - Misbah dropped his bat running it in and bent the handle in half with his knee!
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wood bowling well again
strange way for a bat to be broken too
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He hasn't got a new bat, he's still using the same bat....he just twisted back in to place and continued! Crazy!
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thats some handle!!!! lovely looking stick too!
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Can't believe how misbah is still using the same bat with that handle like that
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Call me a cynic, but what is that handle made of...
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Call me a cynic, but what is that handle made of...
I don't know but the umpire checked it to make sure it's legal or more in shock he still using it
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Yeah was wondering if the umpire was checking if it was legal! No idea how strictly enforced bat regs are, can Misbah expect a little inspection at the end of play?
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He now changed his bat
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Maybe he's only got one bat.......oh now he's asking for a new one
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Botham is a bore
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took his time on that bat change.....
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HOLD THE LINE, WE'VE ACTUALLY GOT 90 OVERS IN A DAY.
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Class by Misbah, determined to get to a ton before then end of play haha
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Most players would have nudged and blocked in the last over but not Misbah!
Lets get this 100 over and done with tonight!!
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Can't imagine captain Cook taking that approach, can you? :D
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Misbah is a legend. To take over from the spot fixing scandal, and to lead with such dignity, poise, and determination takes real character. Who would have thought that Pak would be in the top 3 so quickly. He is a real gentleman and deserves far more respect than he has gotten.
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I love Misbah's approach of blocking absolutely everything for an hour or and and then picking an over to smash everywhere. One of a kind! Also possibly quite clever, getting the field nice and close to cut the risk down of going over the top!
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About three years ago I had the privilege of sitting at a table with a group of former top level players at a Yorkshire CCC event and Misbah was the one modern player they all seemed to have respect for. He is, as the saying goes, old school. He is also a character - and there are precious few of those left in the homogenised media era!
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Have to tip your hat to the ageless Misbah Ul Haq. Had to wait many years to get a place in the Pakistani side and now the wrong side of 40 he's still holding together their batting line up. His destruction of spin bowling is quite staggering.
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I might not be appeased (nor he has to make sure I am!!!) by Misbah Ul Haq's batting but his work ethics and persona is something I wholly applaud. I have been meeting Pakistani players almost annually since 2008, I know some personally but amongst all Misbah is one of the most diligent. His commitment and dedication is simply unmatchable. Has great work ethics. To bring Pakistan in top three after spot fixing scandals, he has ensured Pakistan won few lauriers which they hadn't in past nor other Asian teams!
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BROADY!
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Good start!!
Misbah gone 5th ball.
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MO
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MO
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Under 400 would be awesome
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We're on our way lads
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Top tail end batting by barbar, lets duck a half volley and then review it.
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Horrible there for Shafiq, plus he's got to keep
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Job bloody done (so far)
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Horrible there for Shafiq, plus he's got to keep
Sarfaz Ahmed keeps doesn't he? Might have spelled his name wrong so apologies!
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don't want to tempt fate here, but England our exceeding expectations so far in this series. we got mullered last time
ive got us to win this test against all odds
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Ouch!!
Safraz(also unsure on spelling) is the keeper.
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Sarfaraz is keeper.
Imran khan can't get a run anywhere. 0 runs in 7 matches
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I still suspect that on this kind of wicket, it's a case of "win the toss, bat first and win the Test"! It will only get tougher to bat on and the spinners will get more help!
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i'm not going to tempt fate by posting anything else until we have batted for an hour or so. :)
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Oh well...
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Sarfaraz is keeper.
Imran khan can't get a run anywhere. 0 runs in 7 matches
To be fair to the lad he's only actually batted 4 innings I think it is, with at least two 0* now!!!
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Can't judge him so much on that innings, but this winter will be the time everyone realises Moeen Ali is not a test match batsman. Hopefully the sledgehammer of eternal justice can get a score today.
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Moeen gone early to a decent catch!!!
england were classy this morning 9 in the session to bowl pakistan out!!!
need a knock from bell now though!!!
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Catching already streets ahead of previous test
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why did i say that... bell gone caught behind!!!!
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I'm still very much over Ian Bell.
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Please can we bring in the era of James Taylor
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at what point does backing the right horse become flogging a dead one?
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Bell is slowly fading for England isn't he... How long does he have left/will he keep going?
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Time to end the Ali experiment? Decent slogger, but not a test top 6 batsman.
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Bell is slowly fading for England isn't he... How long does he have left/will he keep going?
He's going to look rather silly if he retires before the summer, right? Post Ashes was the perfect time really...
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oh gawd not a good start.
re;Bell
at some point what you have done in the past stops meaning anything. Don't matter whether it's test cricket or club cricket.
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Strange how the umpires can call Wahab no-balls very accurately! Incidentally, when did he get so good? Since taking Watson apart at the WC he's bowled consistently fast and nasty, I'm sure back last time England and Pakistan played he was bang average? Serious bowler these days.
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at some point what you have done in the past stops meaning anything. Don't matter whether it's test cricket or club cricket.
Amen. Taylor has banging on the door for so long and has been in great nick in ODI's and the warmup games for England, surely he deserves a go?!
Watch Bell get another unconvincing 60odd in the 2nd innings and cling onto his spot though. I feel for him because he's been a decent player for England over the last 10 years but I think his time has come.
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He's going to look rather silly if he retires before the summer, right? Post Ashes was the perfect time really...
I think Cook/management persuaded him he should play on, which isn't a bad call in theory as he's got years of playing left. Sadly doesn't look like the same player often enough recently though.
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Bell is slowly fading for England isn't he... How long does he have left/will he keep going?
Ian Bell, the Frank Lampard of English cricket. Does bugger all for 6 months or so and then...
Scores a lovely 30yard screamer and saves/wins the game
Gets a well grafted and aesthetically pleasing 50/80ish
Selectors give them another 10 caps....
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If this guy can be this quick on "dead" tracks....imagine him at Perth
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Cook dealing in boundaries
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ive been a Bell fan for ages, there's not many better to watch and he has scored runs for us in the past. However.....there are players banging the door down who are younger and more likely to improve, Bell is not going to get any better.It's a bit sad but it happens to all batters at some point, test.club,county, it don't matter.....
I presume England last summer, choose between Bell and Ballance..I know there's loads on here that don't rate Ballance but for me he could be our number 3 going forward in Tests. I still think he can do it and come again.
So...when the middle order is so crowded-maybe Ballance, Taylor and Bairstow,chuck in Alex Hales and you have to score runs.
Bell has been given plenty of backing but time is coming to an end. It's really as simple as someone else deserves a chance for England.
Taylor is going to be given a chance i'm sure, I think England will drop Bell after this test.
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Yasir Shah, Pakistani Elvis?
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Yasir Shah, Pakistani Elvis?
Looks more like Messi to me.
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(http://s.ndtvimg.com/images/content/2015/mar/806/yasir-shah-world-cup.jpg)(http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/67/590x/lionel-messi-446022.jpg)
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Good one. Hair is the only difference.
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any about 20kgs...
Looks like Shah knows his way around the buffet
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Pakistan have had something like 12 reviews in this series and got 11 of them wrong... surprised they dont take the indian perspective and refuse to use it.....
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Don't wanna jinx him but Root is motoring along in imperious fashion as usual. He's some player.
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Pakistan have had something like 12 reviews in this series and got 11 of them wrong... surprised they dont take the indian perspective and refuse to use it.....
No hotspot/snicko won't help, plus I think the umpiring decisions have mostly been very good in fairness. Wonder what the numbers are for England?
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Don't wanna jinx him but Root is motoring along in imperious fashion as usual. He's some player.
He is no mere mortal
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I am reading the scores on cricinfo...would love to watch Root bat. How is the new bat holding up, eh Rootie? Same shape?
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from what ive seen england havnt reviewed as much but hav ebeen successful when they have.
i agree the umpiring has been very good so far except for bad light but then its the rules governing them.
i like the look of the ultra edge sky sports have for analysis use only also and its the same company as hotspot so might reduce cost in future series.
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yet another 50 for cook, 53*
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All hail our glorious leader
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Booked in for a big un again hopefully!
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(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00688/sport-graphics-2008_688991a.jpg)
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Ah, here's where it goes belly up
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commentators course gets cook!!! just saying how well england have blunted yasir shah and how well theyve done and he gets cook!!
athers should know better than to praise england prematurely!!!
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^ lol
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SIX
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Well they've kept it together, thank God.
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Root's NB seems to be going nicely ;)
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Have to say it's been a great days play which I didn't expect at all,
Great bowling from both sides, and I think both Wahab and Imran will get reverse swing and also
The leggie Shah bowled well.
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Ali as an opener won't last much longer unless he get a big score soon.
If he hasn't made a ton by the end of the series he'll be back down the order by the time he's in South Africa.
Also can't help buy feel Bell is on borrowed time (especially with Titch banging on the door).
I'd like to see the selectors make some positive changes for the next test, get a few more new face in to replace the old ones being picked on reputation rather than form.
With Buttler's struggle for form give him a break and pass the gloves to Bairstow.
That frees up a spot to move Ali back down the order and get Hales in as opener (it would only be 2 years too late!)
Put Bell out of his misery, he's been a great servant to English Cricket - but his batting has tailed off and his fielding (well, dropping) is starting to cost the side a lot of runs. Get Taylor in now as he's proved that he's more than ready.
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I must admit that I would take this 2nd Test as a last chance for the moment for a couple of players!
Buttler has had enough chances in Tests for the moment - he is young and talented enough to get other chances, plus he will be in the limited overs Internationals anyway, so he will be considered still. And you are right......he needs a rest from Tests as he has not performed! So Bairstow taking the gloves would be fine!
Ali looked excellent in the mid/lower order as he adds the options of stability or he can up the run rate too!
We have all been saying that Taylor deserves a decent run so bring him in! And unless Bell plays brilliantly in the second innings, then get Hales in for the 3rd Test!
So if Bell comes good in the 2nd innings I would have a stronger batting:
Cook, Hales, Bell, Root, Taylor, Bairstow(wk), Stokes, Ali, Rashid, Broad, Anderson.
The above would give JT some time to bed himself in at 5!
If Bell fails and the wicket spins from day 1 then add a spinner in:
Cook, Hales, Taylor, Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Ali, Rashid, Patel (Ansari in the future), Broad, Anderson
And finally, on a pace wicket which are unlikely to spin until day 4 or 5:
Cook, Hales, Taylor, Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Ali, Rashid (or Plunkett,) Wood, Broad, Anderson
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That last session was one I thoroughly enjoyed. Both sides going at each other hard...very exciting test match cricket
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Can't believe I'm up on a Saturday for this...
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Early shift! root seems to have so many scoring options we are rattling along.
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Wahab is pure class.
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Not great that Root is out, time for Bairstow to step up, 20 tests, 0 hundreds. Looks well set though, might be his day
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And that's Bairstow's millionth lifeline
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And that's Bairstow's millionth lifeline
Looked pretty out to me
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Stokes does nothing with the bat again
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Agree not been great watching this so far this morning. Root chased a wide one but the form he is in shows he is human I guess and stokes looked awful all the way through. Come on Jonny B
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Barstow always seems very very tense when he's batting, everything seems forced
Stop trying to cut everything though >:(
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Useless
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What to do with Jos Butler? Awful shot no foot movement and just looks shot
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Absolutely pathetic. I wish I could swear...
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Butters a flat track bully. Hasn't got any technique whatsoever
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Rashid!! That'd have got you a bollocking in village cricket, a huge filthy slog second ball with someone set at the other end!
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Yasir Shah gets bairstow out 3 times this morning
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What the hell have I woken up to! Everything was going reasonably well and now it's carnage!
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DRS making a farce of the game...again. And when did playing and missing mean you were caught at slip?
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Sorry broad was caught then, makes a bit of a mockery as you can clearly see ball hit short leg boot and the popped straight up
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Sorry broad was caught then, makes a bit of a mockery as you can clearly see ball hit short leg boot and the popped straight up
I disagree.
One frame it's going down next frame it's on it's way back up before its hit the boot.
If it hit his boot flush where it hit it, ball would ricochet in a different direction. It carries on up and in the direction it does as it glances the boot.
Doesn't matter Anderson gone and none added.
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Can't give up a lead of 136 on a pitch like this. Fair to say no way back for England in this game.
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I thought it was out too, problem was the initial contact with the boot was between frames on the slo-mo so it looks likes it hit the boot on the way up suggesting it hit the turf. My issues with DRS is the time it takes. There's be too DRS decisions in the last 20 minutes in which an overs could have been bowled each time. Over rates are bad enough... Not too mention both decisions seem wrong to me
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England need to jettison Bell and Buttler for the third Test. Bell's passed it, not that he was ever that special to start with, and Taylor is being wasted carrying the water. Buttler was never a Test player. A filthy slogger no more.
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Third test should be
Cook
Hales
Taylor
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Rashid
Plunkett/wood
Broad
Anderson
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Third test should be
Cook
Hales
Taylor
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Rashid
Plunkett/wood
Broad
Anderson
Might as well, they've got nothing to lose! Could even bat Ali at 5 and Bairstow at 7 if they wanted to as well. Looks a balanced side to me.
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Butters a flat track bully. Hasn't got any technique whatsoever
2020/odi cricket for you
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Sorry broad was caught then, makes a bit of a mockery as you can clearly see ball hit short leg boot and the popped straight up
Agree with this IMO
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England need to jettison Bell and Buttler for the third Test. Bell's passed it, not that he was ever that special to start with, and Taylor is being wasted carrying the water. Buttler was never a Test player. A filthy slogger no more.
Getting to like this guy :)
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JIMMY
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Amazing test match cricket...looks like it's going down to a close finish.
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Also...what on earth compelled Mark Wood to ask for a review after the 3rd ump had already ruled him out??
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Also...what on earth compelled Mark Wood to ask for a review after the 3rd ump had already ruled him out??
From what I can tell the third umpire was instructed to check the bump ball and not the edge. Wood evidently felt he didn't edge it so then proceeded to review the edge.
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YOU BEAUTY WOODY
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Just caught up on the live text, England back up to their old tricks! After getting themselves into a decent position yesterday, losing 7-36 is criminal...
And to go with being hopelessly out of form with the bat, Buttler has started dropping dollies being the stumps too. Surely it's time to give him a break now!
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These 2 have struggled with the quicks and cook brings on spin to take the pressure off
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Wow
Didn't think we would collapse but then again it is England,
I take it it was good bowling or was it woeful batting
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Wow
Didn't think we would collapse but then again it is England,
I take it it was good bowling or was it woeful batting
The later when you see the way Stokes and Rashid got out and even possibly Root to a degree. Butlers (No Swearing Please) was just awful technique but Wahab bowled really well
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The later when you see the way Stokes and Rashid got out and even possibly Root to a degree. Butlers (No Swearing Please) was just awful technique but Wahab bowled really well
Amusingly on five live Swann said buttler was unlucky as he got a great ball. Which having seen the wicket on sky, I can't help but think Swann is talking out of his rear.
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Amusingly on five live Swann said buttler was unlucky as he got a great ball. Which having seen the wicket on sky, I can't help but think Swann is talking out of his rear.
All media and coaches seem to love Buttler. He must have something on them :)
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Just caught up on the live text, England back up to their old tricks! After getting themselves into a decent position yesterday, losing 7-36 is criminal...
And to go with being hopelessly out of form with the bat, Buttler has started dropping dollies being the stumps too. Surely it's time to give him a break now!
The last part of your post sums it up to me... Time to give him a break now! No its not , its time to drop him! They then need to get a proper keeper in and Taylor for Bell.. Its the mates club at the moment not England Cricket Team
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All media and coaches seem to love Buttler. He must have something on them :)
He's a good bloke ;). we know that's all that counts
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Thing is, given the lack of proper cricket played at amateur levels (it's all slap and tickle Jnr stuff), and then biff biff win/lose adult stuff, 'we' aren't going to produce proper players regularly. The odd one will come though due to being rich or the right place, right coach seeing him etc. generally though, all we'll produce are a bunch of Buttler/stokes and moeens.
Test cricket will die
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The English 'spinners' look totally out of their depth here. Bowling without any real plan.
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WOOOOOOODY
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Commentators curse strikes again
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Another one for woody.i think we know now why we are playing so many seamers and our spinners are only really effective in second innings
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Quality shot from misbah. Shape for the sweep and let Anderson/Buttler run to leg, then just dab it through vacant first slip.
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This is becoming a drag
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This is becoming a drag
Really? No one scoring big runs... Wickets falling... The test match players performing and one day players not.. Seems a dam good test match to me. Well poised because get through misbah and younis and a pink and fluffy tail appears.. Chase say 350 in 5-6 sessions is very doable if they played test match cricket and didn't try and biff
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It's good test match. Misbah and Kahn trying to set up the win.
England need 2 wickets and through to the tail and could have a glimmer..........(if your being optimistic)
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Why do England miss so many catches off Ben Stokes' bowling? Seriously, there seems to be one or two put down in the slips off Stokes every single test he plays.
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We've just seen where Jos Buttlers game is right now ,confidence is shot, doesn't want the ball to come him. Really was quite an easy keepers catch he just let past. I really rate Buttler, but I think he needs pulling out of the team. His batting is now affecting his keeping and barring a 2nd innings miracle knock from him he's is no shape mentally to perform at this level currently
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I think Taylor in for Buttler next test. At least have 3 people who can play spin.
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I think Taylor in for Buttler next test. At least have 3 people who can play spin.
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Bell out for an opener I'd hope too?? Moeen is clueless
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Not convinced Hale's would do much better against spin.
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Might as well play samit for bell and at least try and all the spin options. Samit can play spin pretty well.
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Butler is completely mentally shot and it's showing in his keeping. Dropping 2 catches.
Hales will be even worse against spin! Don't buy into his hype. Rashid and Ali showed why they aren't international class spinners - aren't many decent spinners going around in world cricket anyway.
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Butler is completely mentally shot and it's showing in his keeping. Dropping 2 catches.
Hales will be even worse against spin! Don't buy into his hype. Rashid and Ali showed why they aren't international class spinners - aren't many decent spinners going around in world cricket anyway.
Notice I didn't say Hales :) I reckon he's not good enough to open either in test matches. Ali is t a top 6 batsmen, simple. He isn't a test bowler either BUT it looks like there is no one better so he gets the gig. Don't mind someone being crap but the best there is as long as the media don't BS them up.. Call a spade a spade
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Great test match!!! Misbah and Younis, once again, to rescue the team from a position of weakness to moderate strength. Where are the rest of Pakistan's batsmen? Some great bowling from Riaz and Shah!
I feel for Benji, grit and skills!! He will be one of the greatest England captains of all time.
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Notice I didn't say Hales :) I reckon he's not good enough to open either in test matches. Ali is t a top 6 batsmen, simple. He isn't a test bowler either BUT it looks like there is no one better so he gets the gig. Don't mind someone being crap but the best there is as long as the media don't BS them up.. Call a spade a spade
Moeen Ali a top 6 test batsman? Hell no.
Edit - reading again, typo? Obviously agree if so ;)
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Moeen Ali a top 6 test batsman? Hell no.
Edit - reading again, typo? Obviously agree if so ;)
Typo, sorry. iPad sometimes misses letters. Supposed to be isn't as you'd guessed
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Amusingly regardless of form buttler and bell and there ability to get picked! is Gary ballance
In the last 12 months only cook and root have a better average for England than ballance.
Bell, stokes, buttler, Ali all have a much lower average.
Yet ballance was jettisoned from the squad so quickly.
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Amusingly regardless of form buttler and bell and there ability to get picked! is Gary ballance
In the last 12 months only cook and root have a better average for England than ballance.
Bell, stokes, buttler, Ali all have a much lower average.
Yet ballance was jettisoned from the squad so quickly.
His loss of form was cataclysmic though, he looked like a lost puppy at the crease. Buttler is basically at that point now but has perhaps had a longer grace period due to being in possesion of the gloves. He's hardly shining with those so time to have a rest i think.
Belly, I've never been his biggest fan, but i guess he has done enough in the past to warrant a bit of leeway. The problem is, is it now too late to jettison someone with so much experience? Dale Steyn is looming on the horizon and to throw in a new/young player with no time to settle before the wrecking Boer unleashes is a risk. If Bell was to go, it should have been before the West Indies, or at the very latest, before the UAE?
Equally, if you are forever delaying the introduction of new players because they dont have experience, they wont get any.
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With steyn on the horizon(and probably a more important test series) if hales and Taylor are the men for that series, they both should have had this entire series to get set and test practiced.
As much as I like Ali, steyn/morkel vs Ali will be one hell of a beat down with the new ball.
Also it's one thing to drop ballance, but just vanish him from the squad completely was a tad harsh.
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Steyn/morkal/radaba bs Ali won't be a battle.. It'll be a massacre. Ali doesn't stand a hope in hell
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With steyn on the horizon(and probably a more important test series) if hales and Taylor are the men for that series, they both should have had this entire series to get set and test practiced.
As much as I like Ali, steyn/morkel vs Ali will be one hell of a beat down with the new ball.
Also it's one thing to drop ballance, but just vanish him from the squad completely was a tad harsh.
Agreed, its all typical ECB though isn't it. New man in charge of the team but the same stiffs behind the scenes.
I'm really excited for the SA series, I feel like this nonsense we are playing at the moment is just getting in the way and has no relevance to any other cricket anywhere in the world. Even Sri Lankan/Indian wickets make for exciting cricket compared to this.
It's a great challenge to try and bat for that long as Cook managed of course, but where else in the world would 4 days of cruising along comatose followed by 2 hours of fun and then everyone walks off as things get interesting at the end ever happen?
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Agreed, its all typical ECB though isn't it. New man in charge of the team but the same stiffs behind the scenes.
I'm really excited for the SA series, I feel like this nonsense we are playing at the moment is just getting in the way and has no relevance to any other cricket anywhere in the world. Even Sri Lankan/Indian wickets make for exciting cricket compared to this.
It's a great challenge to try and bat for that long as Cook managed of course, but where else in the world would 4 days of cruising along comatose followed by 2 hours of fun and then everyone walks off as things get interesting at the end ever happen?
I agree, if this was a ashes or important series then yeah pick your best xi for conditions(I.e Ali opening and spinner)
But as it's merely a stop gap before a decent series against the world number one, hen pick the side to win that series and let them get practice in and settled!
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Moeen Ali has taken 50 Test wickets, but if you look closely at his stats you'll see he's been exposed(or lucked out against India).
19 wickets against India @ 23
31 wickets against everyone else @ 47
In 2015 he's been absolutely dreadful. 28 wickets @ 46 and getting caned at 4 RPO. He offers Cook no control whatsoever. Usually this wouldn't be that much of a problem but when the other spinner is even worst. It's a big problem for Cook.
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I agree, if this was a ashes or important series then yeah pick your best xi for conditions(I.e Ali opening and spinner)
But as it's merely a stop gap before a decent series against the world number one, hen pick the side to win that series and let them get practice in and settled!
Beg to disagree. The first game was indeed played on a rubbish pitch, but this one is offering a great contest between bat and ball. Can't be a road if both teams lose wickets in a heap.
Also, this series is very important - battle for the number 3 rank. More than that, no self respecting team should shrug off a drubbing (if it does materialize here) by saying that the series wasn't important enough. You're not exactly playing Zimbabwe here.
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This wicket is a decent test wicket. We can see that IF you bat like a test match batsmen you will score runs... just look who has and who hasn't scored runs this match. No side has scored more than 400 runs which is the sign of a non batting deck. There is something there fora bowler if you are a) good enough b) bowl with control c) Have that skill to actually do something with the ball
England are just being exposed as only having two test match batsmen and zero spin options. Rather than blame this that or the other 'we' need to realise that we are producing one day players and not the quality needed for proper test cricket. We are fine on flat decks when players like Buttler/Stokes/Ali can wack through the line but that shouldn't be test match wickets at the end of the day.
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Misbah, Asian bully? Likes to tonk the spinners but not so clever against pace. I don't think I have seen anybody who pokes the seamers and smacks the spinners to this extent and I wondered how he had done at seam friendly venues.Cricinfo makes interesting reading :-
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/41378.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;host=2;host=3;host=5;orderby=default;template=results;type=batting
What's amazing is just how little he has played outside Asia and windies - just 10 tests out of 70. Average plummets from 49 to 31. As good as he is in the UAE, can't help thinking he might struggle when he visits a venue that suits seam bowlers.
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For all the talk about "Asian" pitches, England succumbed today, to genuine pace, on a supposed "dead" track, with minimal reverse swing.
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Misbah, Asian bully? Likes to tonk the spinners but not so clever against pace. I don't think I have seen anybody who pokes the seamers and smacks the spinners to this extent and I wondered how he had done at seam friendly venues.Cricinfo makes interesting reading :-
[url]http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/41378.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;host=2;host=3;host=5;orderby=default;template=results;type=batting[/url] ([url]http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/41378.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;host=2;host=3;host=5;orderby=default;template=results;type=batting[/url])
What's amazing is just how little he has played outside Asia and windies - just 10 tests out of 70. Average plummets from 49 to 31. As good as he is in the UAE, can't help thinking he might struggle when he visits a venue that suits seam bowlers.
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This is Misbah Ul Haq's 60th test match;
http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan-v-england-2015-16/content/current/player/41378.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan-v-england-2015-16/content/current/player/41378.html)
Not much players can do when they can't play home or don't have many series.
What I fail to comprehend is that when a batsman is able to score well on bowling friendly pitches, how come they are unable or inept on flat tracks? Shouldn't it be even easier for them there?
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Another poor session. Ali nearly going at 6rpo and rashid 4rpo...neither looking like they can take a wicket. Pretty pathetic on this pitch
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England have been set a mammoth 491 to win this Test after Pakistan declared 6-354.
The hapless Rashid ended up 1-107 and the hopeless Moeen 1-60. A pretty pathetic effort on a pitch like this...
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Moeen is going back down to 8
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Ali nicks off going for a booming drive! Pathetic shot for a "opener"
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And Jesus Christ Cook is seriously crocked...
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Need to bat 5 sessions to save a test match and Ali only has that much patience before wafting at one!
Not good enough, not a test opener, and if he's still doing it for match 3 it'll be same old England just different name as coach.
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I hate cricket
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Cooks off for a rest. All over to you root, shepherd the tail in............
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Well hopefully Hales will at least get a game before South Africa then, that was incredibly poor. Ali back down to the tail where he belongs, although unfortunately that probably means no Taylor.
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I guess this highlights the rather obvious cracks that the Ashes temporarily papered over...
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Ali back down to the tail where he belongs, although unfortunately that probably means no Taylor.
Surely Buttler will go too and Bairstow will wear the gloves:
Cook, Hales, Taylor, Root, Stokes, Bairstow (wk), Ali, Rashid, Wood, Broad, Anderson.
Taylor is a class batsman from what I've seen of him over here in Aus
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Surely Buttler will go too and Bairstow will wear the gloves:
Cook, Hales, Taylor, Root, Stokes, Bairstow (wk), Ali, Rashid, Wood, Broad, Anderson.
Taylor is a class batsman from what I've seen of him over here in Aus
Tail starting at 5 :(
Those who thought the ashes win was the start of a golden era are looking a bit sheepish now. Ashes was a poor series, two poor teams.
Cook injury has to be a worry for England,mayes had a bad back for a while though. Same with root
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I guess this highlights the rather obvious cracks that the Ashes temporarily papered over...
Kp's in Dubai ;)
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Tail starting at 5 :(
It does anyway........
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Kp's in Dubai ;)
We can dream my good man, we can dream.
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It does anyway........
Humm, good point :(
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Humm, good point :(
If root opened with cook. It'd start at 3!!
We really don't have more than the two consistent world class batsmen at mo do we?
Stokes is the biggest disappointment to me, Perth vs Johnstone he looked a class above. Where's that stokes gone!
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If root opened with cook. It'd start at 3!!
We really don't have more than the two consistent world class batsmen at mo do we?
Stokes is the biggest disappointment to me, Perth vs Johnstone he looked a class above. Where's that stokes gone!
Root has shown he's not an opener. Maybe those innings from stokes are flukes ?
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Tail starting at 5 :(
Ashes was a poor series, two poor teams.
Yeah I'd rather Bairstow at 5 but I'm sure keepers hate batting that high in the orders in a test (apart from AB?). Stokes can handle the blade well though, could otherwise drop Bell to 5 and axe a bowler like Rashid or Wood? Who else is on tour as a batsman? I agree with Smilley, after seeing Stokes being a cut above on the bouncy, seaming WACA wicket against Johnson, Harris and Siddle I'm left wondering where that form went?
I'm sure anyone who looked at the numbers would have also realised how poor the Ashes series was, apart from Root, Cook, Smith and Rogers there weren't many solid batsman. England won the series with Lyth, Bell and Buttler in the lineup.
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Root has shown he's not an opener. Maybe those innings from stokes are flukes ?
If we go across 2015 and how often root was in within 5-10 overs, he might as well have opened all year.
Not sure you can fluke a ton wth Johnson and Harris bowling at you in there pomp!!
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If root opened with cook. It'd start at 3!!
We really don't have more than the two consistent world class batsmen at mo do we?
Stokes is the biggest disappointment to me, Perth vs Johnstone he looked a class above. Where's that stokes gone!
He was electric against NZ at Lords, still a while ago mind, but more recent than Perth.
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If we go across 2015 and how often root was in within 5-10 overs, he might as well have opened all year.
Didn't Root score 180 odd opening in 2013 at Lords? He is a rock in the middle order, but since Strauss retired how many blokes have had a go at opening and failed? Lyth, Carberry, Robson, Hales, Compton, Ali, Trott etc?
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If we go across 2015 and how often root was in within 5-10 overs, he might as well have opened all year.
Not sure you can fluke a ton wth Johnson and Harris bowling at you in there pomp!!
I agree it's not the easiest time to fluke one but stranger things have happened and he hasn't exactly followed it up. He's a 7-8 and would be a dam good one. If he found form like flintoff did for that year or so he could be a six but he's probably just a better broad (batting wise).
'We' both ECB and the public have to realise they aren't really top batsmen. Lvcc isn't up to the task of producing the quality so we are left with what we have, odd top player but generally sub standard. We need an opener,3,5,6 and then a spinner
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If they're serious about bringing in Taylor I'd move him up one, he's spent the summer coming in stupidly early enough to warrant it.
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No chance of Bell being dropped for the next game, it'd be Ali down to 7 and Hales in for Buttler. Already enough batsmen in the team playing their first test series in the subcontinent, don't think they'll want to add too many more.
Stokes is a class act and did score 50 in the last match, short memories.
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Didn't Root score 180 odd opening in 2013 at Lords? He is a rock in the middle order, but since Strauss retired how many blokes have had a go at opening and failed? Lyth, Carberry, Robson, Hales, Compton, Ali, Trott etc?
Root was yorskhires opener, and was England's main plan as replacement for Strauss, and as he did so well at 6 on arrival, England's want for him to be there future is one of(but not the only reason) Compton was axed.
He did make a lovely 180 but I'm sure in that series and the next it was one of only a few scores.
And rather than axe him like Compton, carberry lyth etc, being England's poster boy he was put down to 5 to regain his confidnece(which has worked)
As he is now world number 2(could be back to one after this test) do they really want to move him back up to the new ball spot? Or leave him at 4 where he is according to stats. One of the worlds best?
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As he is now world number 2(could be back to one after this test) do they really want to move him back up to the new ball spot? Or leave him at 4 where he is according to stats. One of the worlds best?
Exactly, too good to move, especially as the next generation seem to be rather hit and miss at the moment.
I'd love Taylor to get settled and performing at 5, giving the option of Root moving back up if they cannot find a decent opener to partner Cook.
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Why is no one asking the hard question of 'why aren't we producing test match top 4 batsmen, especially the quality needed for opener and three'
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Anyone else feel like shah has been a bit overrated? No doubt he's decent but he's not lethal. Just from a spectator point of view I'd rather watch rashid as he gives it a bit more air and turns it more. I'd rather see the millionaire Arthur Mailey type of leggie who goes for runs but can produce the spectacular. We know bowling quicker on these decks can be preferable but,whilst rashid has the opposite problem, Shah does get a bit flat with his trajectory and that's as bad as giving the batsmen more time to choose their shot as it's easier to track.
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Riaz kicking the ball, classic Pakistani ball tampering
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Last we'll see of Bell?
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Bell really is our Watto
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Anyone else feel like shah has been a bit overrated? No doubt he's decent but he's not lethal. Just from a spectator point of view I'd rather watch rashid as he gives it a bit more air and turns it more. I'd rather see the millionaire Arthur Mailey type of leggie who goes for runs but can produce the spectacular. We know bowling quicker on these decks can be preferable but,whilst rashid has the opposite problem, Shah does get a bit flat with his trajectory and that's as bad as giving the batsmen more time to choose their shot as it's easier to track.
Been surprised, thought he was superb in previous series but he hasnt looked as sharp so far against England.
Bit unlucky there for Bell.
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Bell really is our Watto
I must have missed the 20 test match centuries that Watto made
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I must have missed the 20 test match centuries that Watto made
Score in the 40s or under 10 for the past year. Time for a change.
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Time for the new generation of England batsmen to show us they can bat long, this test match is by no means unsaveable. Probably too much depends on Root though.
Cook and Root both struggling with injury today is terrifying...
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Hales and Taylor in for root and cook at this point!
Not much batting left in the squad. Patel picked for spin may get the gig for his batting!
Let pray no more injuries
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I think Cook will be fine, he's invincible. Have 6 days between the tomorrow and the next test as well.
Keep Root in, play for the draw, job done.
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Anyone else feel like shah has been a bit overrated? No doubt he's decent but he's not lethal. Just from a spectator point of view I'd rather watch rashid as he gives it a bit more air and turns it more. I'd rather see the millionaire Arthur Mailey type of leggie who goes for runs but can produce the spectacular. We know bowling quicker on these decks can be preferable but,whilst rashid has the opposite problem, Shah does get a bit flat with his trajectory and that's as bad as giving the batsmen more time to choose their shot as it's easier to track.
Agreed, I watched some videos of his bowling in YouTube and he picks up a lot of his wickets with catches on the boundary when people take him on
Seems v good, but not he messiah of leg spin he's made out to be
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Joe root to 3000 runs. Only cook faster in terms of age.
And beats kps record by 1 innings.!
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It's 6:15. It's too early for this...
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It's 6:15. It's too early for this...
Wish it was! I leave for work in 4minutes. Already walked me dogs.
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It's half term so my working hours are half days. And to think I'm up for this...
Bat the day out plz lads
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I'm into my second week of six or seven laid up off work, thank goodness for cricket to keep me sane!
Previous generation of the England team had a habit of big Collingwood-inspired blockouts for a draw, hopefully the newer lads can follow on... shiiiiit as I type Root goes :(
Chance for Bairstow to prove he belongs and nail down an England spot for a good while here.
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We are losing this match by a rather large margin
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Still an outside chance of saving this but hard to see it given the two recognised batsmen left are both in bad for and complete dashers, probably more chance of these two chasing it down than batting out two sessions!
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Bye bye buttler. Hopefully see you in the limited overs stuff sometime!
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Has Buttler produced any notable score in tests? I also hear that Bairstow is the better keeper but I've never really seen Bairstow keep
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I don't think Bairstow is a better keeper but there's not much between them. Butler is just in a rut and low on confidence, it happens......
England have invested a lot in him but it might be time to play him in the shorter format where he can play more freely.
Bairstow can 'do a job' keeping and we could get either hales or taylor in the side.
Have to say it was obviously Ali opening was not going to work and it's proved that way. I don't think Hales is the answer either so we are in a sticky situation.
we will go down 1-0 shortly so might be time to give utler a game off in the next match and try to find form in the one dayers and t20
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I'm gonna grab a coffee, look at finally joining the gym and wait for this to all blow over.
Fair play to Pak I guess, saw England's faults and took advantage. Thought the seamers bowled well and that's it. It may be difficult conditions and expected but Jesus our number 3/middle order is awful.
Please, please, please let me get what I want: James Taylor
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stokes gone... game over any other cricket on today?
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I think there has been doubts about Buttlers technique for a while. It's only been when Aus came to town that the debate really gathered speed. He's a wonderfully talented player that just needs a bit of tightening up for test cricket. I have no doubt he will be a mainstay of the England setup but he might be more a Dhoni than a Gilchrist ie. great ODI/T20 player, not so clever in tests. Particularly against SA, Bairstow might be a better bet. He's already had the trauma of his technique being examined and come through a better player. If you are going to carry Ali as a allrounder to a certain extent and want to play Rashid long term, then the other 6/7 batsman have to be able to score test runs. Can't afford those guys to be average below 30 (or less) for an extended period of time. Same applies to Stokes and Bell as well.
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I think there has been doubts about Buttlers technique for a while. It's only been when Aus came to town that the debate really gathered speed. He's a wonderfully talented player that just needs a bit of tightening up for test cricket. I have no doubt he will be a mainstay of the England setup but he might be more a Dhoni than a Gilchrist ie. great ODI/T20 player, not so clever in tests. Particularly against SA, Bairstow might be a better bet. He's already had the trauma of his technique being examined and come through a better player. If you are going to carry Ali as a allrounder to a certain extent and want to play Rashid long term, then the other 6/7 batsman have to be able to score test runs. Can't afford those guys to be average below 30 (or less) for an extended period of time. Same applies to Stokes and Bell as well.
Why should Bairstow to allowed to continue in the Test side? He's actually worst than Buttler. After 32 Test innings Bairstow averages a pathetic 26, hardly worthy of selection.
Bairstow
Buttler
Ali
Stokes
None of whom are Test class with the bat.
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Why should Bairstow to allowed to continue in the Test side? He's actually worst than Buttler. After 32 Test innings Bairstow averages a pathetic 26, hardly worthy of selection.
Bairstow
Buttler
Ali
Stokes
None of whom are Test class with the bat.
You've got have atleast one wicket keeper.
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i dont agree with singling out the newer players yeah buttler ali and stokes havnt batted well but ali is hopelessly out of position and should never have opened and yes buttler is horribly out of form but stokes is a dasher but has proven the ability to play meaningful innings ie perth and lords. but bell has been awful yet again although im sad to see this decline as hes been great for england over a long period of time after being recalled during the 09 ashes but nostalgia and sympathy shouldnt keep him in the team
i think englands side should be something like this for sharjah:
1. Cook
2. Hales
3. Root
4. Taylor
5. Bairstow
6. Stokes
7. Ali
8. Rashid
9. Broad
10. Wood
11. Anderson
assuming we have a full strength squad to choose from.
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I think in the here and now Bairstow has a load of county runs and has at least some decent innings in the UAE. Stokes is part of a 4 man seam attack that is doing very well. Ali ,at 8, has looked ok and until England find a decent spinner nobody is going to remove him. That leaves Buttler, who if he can't score runs can be replaced by Bairstow as a keeper. Taylor has probably earned a gig, can at least play spin. Outside the UAE we need to find a reliable opener, Hales I guess is next off the taxi rank. I do fear for him if he starts in SA, not like Buttler getting some throwdowns v India at home last year is it?
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i think englands side should be something like this for sharjah:
1. Cook
2. Hales Ali
3. Root
4. Taylor
5. Bairstow
6. Stokes
7. Ali Patel
8. Rashid
9. Broad
10. Wood
11. Anderson
It's a one off game, play Samit and the third spinner instead of Bell. Both Patel and Taylor can actually play spin which will help.
Bell back for SA, still think he is better down the order not up it. I would go for this in SA:-
1. Cook
2. Hales (any other suggestions?)
3. Root
4. Taylor
5. Bairstow
6. Bell
7. Stokes
8. Ali
9. Wood
10. Broad
11. Anderson
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would it be worth opening with root?
i know hales has batted at 3 and for notts in the past few seasons although he looks far more comfortable opening
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Are my eyes deceiving me from my sick bed or is rashid batting without a grip?
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it certainly looks like it although i doubt it!!!!
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nah theres one on there!!! its just white and it is coming quite a long way down the shoulder though
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I just saw it is a grip after he clubbed a four
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broad gone to a stunning yorker!!! wahab seems to have improved massivley since that spell vs watto in the world cup!
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He had a spell with Kent a few years ago and was quite inconsistent however when he was on it he was awesome.
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yeah that was 2010? i remember the game against surrey where he hit a few quick runs and took a double wicket maiden late on i think
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At least the new Bond film is out today, a true bastion of English steel
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Atleast we can take heart in one thing!
The Aussies lost by more runs on this ground to Pakistan exactly 1 year ago(in losing the 2 match series 2-0)
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Atleast we can take heart in one thing!
The Aussies lost by more runs on this ground to Pakistan exactly 1 year ago(in losing the 2 match series 2-0)
liking your style. England have actually played pretty well apart from a horror session. Pakistan are very firm favourites to win so there's no surprise
the frustrating thing is we were outstanding in the last match and only 2 overs from a victory......
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Isnt it light meter time yet??
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i wonder if pakistan will be bowling at a rate of 12 overs an hour like abu dhabi now they're in with a chance of winning?
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Time for monty and Anderson to save the game. Get those glove changes every over ;)
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Rashid looking increasingly at home in test cricket, what chance of him displacing Moeen? Ali is in the process of proving that he's not a test batsman and still getting milked with the ball, his wicket taking record isn't bad but it's very rare he gets someone out rather than batsmen being too aggressive and making mistakes. Rashid not the most consistent but as a legspinner always more likely to get people out. Don't think it's likely but could happen if they get a run in the side together, Cook did seem to turn to Rashid over Ali in this game.
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Ali was one of our highest scorers this summer, not sure you can write him off as a test batsman on the basis of 4 innings in a position he's never batted in before.
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i think hes batted really well in a no win situation just hope he can push on with wood and get a big score 30 overs left why not!!
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Rashid looking increasingly at home in test cricket, what chance of him displacing Moeen? Ali is in the process of proving that he's not a test batsman and still getting milked with the ball, his wicket taking record isn't bad but it's very rare he gets someone out rather than batsmen being too aggressive and making mistakes. Rashid not the most consistent but as a legspinner always more likely to get people out. Don't think it's likely but could happen if they get a run in the side together, Cook did seem to turn to Rashid over Ali in this game.
He's just batting 5 positions too high at the moment! Don't think rashids batting will ever be in the class of Mo's even though he's very good for a bowler.
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Ali was one of our highest scorers this summer, not sure you can write him off as a test batsman on the basis of 4 innings in a position he's never batted in before.
I didn't rate him as a batsman before this summer and didn't really change my opinion after it. Very good number 8, but never a test quality top 6. Test average of 30 tells you that - brilliant to have in your side as a no8, not going to be picked as a batsman based on those stats. No genuine test batsman gets caught in the slips droving at wide ones the amount he does!
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Ali is a far better batsman that Rashid!!!
But Ali should be batting at around 6-8 until he beds in and then see how he goes! Batting him at 2 at International level was never likely to work!
I am interested to see what changes are made for the 3rd Test! These series should have always been seen as a way of experimenting with the team order in readiness for the SA Test!! If the selectors don't make any changes for the 3rd Test then they really need a slap!
And if they drop a new number 2 bat in for the SA Test, then that is stupidly unfair against the best bowling attack in cricket!
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Ali ihas shown he's at is best at no 8 he is not good enough for the top six
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Good to hear there is some resilience from the lower order on TMS. It would be great for Rashid to get a first 50 in tests to go along with his 5-for in the last game. Changes will be required for the next test, and then again for South Africa.
I'd go for the following line-up in the next test: Cook, Hales, Taylor, Root, Stokes, Bairstow (wk), Ali, Rashid, Broad, Wood, Anderson
However, further changes needed for South Africa: Cook, Hales, Taylor, Root, Hildreth, Bairstow (wk), Ali, Willey, Broad, Wood, Anderson - if need 2 spinners then throw Rashid in for Wood IMO.
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talking of ali and being a bad opener, what about nick browne at essex? not straight away but in a few seasons of county championship cricket can tap into gooch/cooks experiance while theyre back at essex
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maiden test 50 for adil rashid!!! shown some guts and application this innings, actually enjoying watching him bat too
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Yes Ali is a better bat than Rashid (probably, not a lot of difference in their fc averages ;) ) but if we are picking only one to bat at 8, you could easily argue for Rashid being a better bowler.
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England appear to have reversed the batting order. Village :D
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Ali ihas shown he's at is best at no 8 he is not good enough for the top six
Who is then?
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On the selector's current form they might drop Ali for the next test, bring Taylor into the middle order and give Rashid a go opening!
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A few players are currently proving that they are struggling in the top 6 to be honest!!
But two things are blatantly clear!! Buttler is on shocking form and can barely buy a run at the moment!
And Ali is not an opener! I would have added that Bell is out of form but I see he hit a 46, so this may (hopefully) see a slight improvement in form?
I suspect that Buttler would give his right ball to hit that score at the moment!!
So Buttler and Ali need to be addressed right now! Not in a couple of weeks!
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Bell batted very well actually, tad unlucky to get out the way he did. Don't think he's in any danger anyway - 3rd highest scorer in the series for England I believe, proven test player and performing better than Ali YJB, and Buttler at the moment. Buttler out for Hales in the next game I suspect, assuming Cook is fit.
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Can see buttler losing out in the next game. I would bring hales in to open and drop Ali down to 7 with bairstow keeping
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10 overs of the session surived, surely they won't get them all in...
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With such a powerful and versatile middle order I can't for the life of me understand why England don't just pick a proper opener like Compton and make sure they set a platform for the rest. It is a slightly negative attitude I suppose when you look at openers around the world like Warner but should we really be looking for someone like that? I can see Hales performing poorly thrown in at the deep end and then where will we be.
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England are never going to get these runs at this rate, time for Wood and Rashid to push on and open their shoulders a bit :D :D
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Final hour, decent effort from these 2 so far!
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Rashid just left one from Shah that pretty much pitched on middle! Boy's got some stones, clearly...
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give the umps some blacked out ray bans and tell them it's 'getting dark'
come on!!!!
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WE CAN DO THIS
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give the umps some blacked out ray bans and tell them it's 'getting dark'
come on!!!!
Bilal Shafayat has been seen chartering a private plane from Heathrow with a jumbo box of batting gloves...
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In Jimmy we trust
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Rashid, Wood and Broad putting the middle/top order to shame.
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Really hope we don't have a situation like that Sri Lankan game with poor old Jimmy lobbing one up
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Is it getting dark yet? That would be really, really handy!!!!
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COME ON
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Why did he do that?!?!?
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What on Earth was that?!?!
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Completely unnecessary from rashid. Although love the klinsmann wicket celebration
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Whyyyyyyyyyy?! Bring back Paul Collingwood.
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Boycott was saying on TMS that Rash has no brains, and I think that's just proved it. Rash by name rash by nature. Absolutely gutted we've thrown it away. If someone got out to a good ball fair enough but that wasn't even threatening the stumps.
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Dudes in his second test. He's out batted many a batsmen there, give him some credit. Had the "batsmen" Ali, stokes, buttler to name a few had as much resilience we'd have done a lot better than we did.
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Dudes in his second test. He's out batted many a batsmen there, give him some credit. Had the "batsmen" Ali, stokes, buttler to name a few had as much resilience we'd have done a lot better than we did.
Fair point it's an incredible innings so early in his test career, but to do all the hard work and then to have a swipe...
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Boycott was saying on TMS that Rash has no brains, and I think that's just proved it. Rash by name rash by nature. Absolutely gutted we've thrown it away. If someone got out to a good ball fair enough but that wasn't even threatening the stumps.
Piece of piss when your sat on your (No Swearing Please), whole different ball game when you've batted for hours on a 5th day wicket against a pretty decent attack, plenty of lads in England shirts you can have a go at over this innings, but I'd say Rashid was pretty low down the list.
I presume with so many men around the bat he was just looking to show some positivity and picked the wrong ball.
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You can't blame Rashid, he lasted 170odd balls at number 8, he shouldn't have been in that situation in the first place!
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Not seen the dismissal but I would point the finger at the first innings collapse and those who could of done better in the second innings. It obviously wasn't easy but when numbers 8-11 set a world record for balls faced, it can't of been that tricky either.
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Both am just made a decent point (for a change), when asked about the ending he said they should look at the shot choices in England's first innings before criticising rashid. Still not sure what he was thinking, but he batted for nearly 4 hours it was one hell of an effort
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Piece of piss when your sat on your (No Swearing Please), whole different ball game when you've batted for hours on a 5th day wicket against a pretty decent attack, plenty of lads in England shirts you can have a go at over this innings, but I'd say Rashid was pretty low down the list.
Not really having a go and certainly not sayings it's easy out there!!! Any of us would have lasted about 3 balls. but why suddenly change what you've been doing for the last 15 overs when you can see the finish line. All I'm saying is he'll have learnt a lot about his own temperament from this, because he's clearly not a deep thinker as his bowling often demonstrates! Never seen anyone who can bowl a googly so well and have absolutely no idea when best to use it. Cracking effort, I think he'll be so furious with himself and probably won't be able to explain why he even did it. Live and learn.
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Can't blame rashid as it looked a tired shot
He batted as long as anyone else in the line plus bowled his overs
Just as in club cricket if you leave it to 9 10 jack don't complain as batsmen have to take responsibility
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Rashid, what a cock!
So he grafts to try and save a test, then has a rush of something to the head and throws all his hard work, along with the game, away.
Say what you like about not blaming him, or the batsman should've done better, he was the man in the middle and he's the one who threw his wicket away needlessly
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By the sounds of things, you guys criticising Rashid would have done a better job? Just remember why he's there representing his country, and your not
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Rashid, what a cock!
So he grafts to try and save a test, then has a rush of something to the head and throws all his hard work, along with the game, away.
Say what you like about not blaming him, or the batsman should've done better, he was the man in the middle and he's the one who threw his wicket away needlessly
You wouldn't have lasted an over without a swipe though would you cam??
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Rashid, what a cock!
So he grafts to try and save a test, then has a rush of something to the head and throws all his hard work, along with the game, away.
Say what you like about not blaming him, or the batsman should've done better, he was the man in the middle and he's the one who threw his wicket away needlessly
Harsh... 2 ft either side of the fielder and he would have been fine. attacking shots when you are surrounded by the fielding team has got to be a vlid source of releasing pressure and should offer no more risk then trying to knock it down.
It was a great effort but his shot was not why we lost the game.
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Runs in 2nd Test:
Cook 75
Ali 2 ???
Bell 50
Root 159
Bairstow 68
Stokes 17
Buttler 7
Rashid 61
Broad 45 (1 Not Out)
Woods 30
Anderson 4 (1 Not Out)
So from this, Stokes hasn't batted well - plus he only took 1 wicket of Malik in the first innings so needs to show some improvement in both disciplines!
Buttler 7 in both innings - and didn't someone say that he dropped a couple, and wasn't keeping particularly well (drop in confidence possibly?)
Plus we know that Ali is more comfortable batting down the order, and his 2 runs in 2 innings batting at number 2 kind out shows this!! :(
So as we have already said, they really must give Buttler a rest and drop Ali down! Then get Hales in at 2!
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And as has already been said, Rashid played a rash shot and should have known better!!
But need to look at others who are not performing! Buttler and Stokes are doing badly.
And indeed we need to look at the selectors for not playing the right people!
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I do hope the team rally around him afterwards now and let him know it wasn't his fault, he needs confidence to do his job as a leggie, but having said that hope he remembers he got out to an unnecessary swipe in both innings. you can't escape that fact!
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You wouldn't have lasted an over without a swipe though would you cam??
I'm not a paid professional, I've never scored a first class hundred, and I'm certain I'll never plays a test match.
That said, when it's my job to block and survive, then I have next to no backlift and play either a block or a leave to everything...
Play the situation and all...
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Runs in 2nd Test:
Cook 75
Ali 2 ???
Bell 50
Root 159
Bairstow 68
Stokes 17
Buttler 7
Rashid 61
Broad 45 (1 Not Out)
Woods 30
Anderson 4 (1 Not Out)
So from this, Stokes hasn't batted well - plus he only took 1 wicket of Malik in the first innings so needs to show some improvement in both disciplines!
Buttler 7 in both innings - and didn't someone say that he dropped a couple, and wasn't keeping particularly well (drop in confidence possibly?)
Plus we know that Ali is more comfortable batting down the order, and his 2 runs in 2 innings batting at number 2 kind out shows this!! :(
So as we have already said, they really must give Buttler a rest and drop Ali down! Then get Hales in at 2!
Buttler trashed Stokes bowling figures by not going for a relatively straightforward catch. Then Stokes got smacked for another 4 the following ball. Not easy to keep out there but you have to take your chances!
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I'm not a paid professional, I've never scored a first class hundred, and I'm certain I'll never plays a test match.
That said, when it's my job to block and survive, then I have next to no backlift and play either a block or a leave to everything...
Play the situation and all...
I'm guessing you only watched the last ball of the game, or are you just ignoring the rest of Rashid's innings?
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And as has already been said, Rashid played a rash shot and should have known better!!
But need to look at others who are not performing! Buttler and Stokes are doing badly.
And indeed we need to look at the selectors for not playing the right people!
Get Buttler out of the side to find form. He will be back!
Stokes is the 4th seamer and a handy bat on his day. A poor man's Flintoff almost, and can produce magic from nowhere at times. I'd keep him in for now.
As for the selectors playing the wrong people, Get a proper opener in and Ali back down the order where he's done well.
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I'm guessing you only watched the last ball of the game, or are you just ignoring the rest of Rashid's innings?
Like i said earlier it was one rush of something to the head. It just so happens that said rush cost England the game.
Is it entirely his fault? No
Should he have kown better? Yes
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Like i said earlier it was one rush of something to the head. It just so happens that said rush cost England the game.
Is it entirely his fault? No
Should he have kown better? Yes
But it only cost England the game because he'd done so well. If he'd done that 5th ball then we'd have all forgotten about it now and said England were awful in one session and that'd be it. As it is you're effectively attacking the poor lad for doing so well.
I don't think he's a particularly good bowler, but he's done bloody well there.
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Get Buttler out of the side to find form. He will be back!
Stokes is the 4th seamer and a handy bat on his day. A poor man's Fkintoff almost, and can produce magic from nowhere at times. I'd keep him in for now.
As for the selectors playing the wrong people, Get a proper opener im and Ali back down the order where he's done well.
Precisely! If selectors had of played a proper opening then I am pretty sure that Hales would have managed more than 2 runs in 2 innings!!
And Ali would have been stronger batting at 7 than Buttler!! Obviously no guarantee but Hales has proved that he can open at International level in shorter format so looks a better bet. And Ali has already proved he is a more confident batsman down the order.
And I would agree that Stokes needs to keep his place.
So what's the betting that they make no changes!! >:(
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Like i said earlier it was one rush of something to the head. It just so happens that said rush cost England the game.
Is it entirely his fault? No
Should he have kown better? Yes
Just put yourself in his shoes..you just see a ripping leggie. You're trying to guess what's next. You see a fullish ball...you should leave it, right? But what if it's a wrong one? "Safer" to drive it. Then it dips slightly...just enough to get scooped to cover.
It is ridiculous to blame Adil ...just go through the above in your head, and it's not that bizarre that he did what he did.
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Attacking him for doing well? I don't think so.
Yes he did well, but having done all the hard work I feel he should've had more sense than that. Some can clearly see the logic in what he did, but to my mind it was a moment of madness that's taken the shine off a very good innings.
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I'm not a paid professional, I've never scored a first class hundred, and I'm certain I'll never plays a test match.
.
And Adil is a number 8 batsman, in his second ever test!!
His job is to bowl, not bat.
You do know that they tend to spend little time with the bowlers coaching them to bat? If the bowlers want to improve they have to buddy up with a batsmen and learn from them.
Apparently Kp spent hours on end with Finn when he was in the squad
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For all the talk of yasir shah being "overrated", most of his wickets this game were top notch. As a spinner myself I particularly enjoyed:
1. Setting up JB with some wide leggies in the first innings, followed by one that turns less to trap him lbw (warne used this set up a lot)
2. The googly in the 2nd innings to get JB
3. Butler in 2nd innings with a perfect leggie
Not too shabby for a chap playing his 11th game
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The Googly to get bairstow in the second innings was very good, I thought he gave Pakistan a much better feel to their attack with him in the side
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The bits I saw of him were ok. Better control than Rashid but didn't look like knocking over Rashid and Wood in the second innings. Certainly not on the Warne scale of frightening turn, more the Kumble persistence scale. Good spinner yes but England shouldn't worry about him as much as Riaz with the reversing ball. That's hurt us in this test.
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My side for final test:
Cook
Hales
Taylor
Root
Bairstow+
Ali
Stokes
Rashid
Broad
Wood
Anderson
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Couldn't agree more with the that lineup above
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Compton
Cook
Bell
Root
Taylor
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Broad
Wood
Anderson
Bell keeps his place because there is no one else and I'd keep root where he's been good. Taylor in for a year or so St 5 to bed in. Stokes at six simply because we have to accommodate others further down,mother wise I'd have him at 7/8. Compton because we need stability at the top, not someone to slog. If you must bring hales in, start him at 5/6 to learn how to play test cricket first.
Who in county cricket averages 45+ over the last two years and what position did they play?
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Compton being treated very unfairly in my view. All because of one supposed "argument"?
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The Googly to get bairstow in the second innings was very good, I thought he gave Pakistan a much better feel to their attack with him in the side
/Bairstow played all round it... If not fixed, this will stop him playing too many tests.
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Compton being treated very unfairly in my view. All because of one supposed "argument"?
What argument?
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
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What argument?
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/apr/03/nick-compton-england-cricket-west-indies (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/apr/03/nick-compton-england-cricket-west-indies)
Towards end of the article
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[url]http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/apr/03/nick-compton-england-cricket-west-indies[/url] ([url]http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/apr/03/nick-compton-england-cricket-west-indies[/url])
Towards end of the article
Here's another interesting article back:-
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cricket/ashes-2015-back-to-nick-compton-is-the-answer-to-englands-opening-batsman-dilemma-10468688.html
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Here's another interesting article back:-
[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cricket/ashes-2015-back-to-nick-compton-is-the-answer-to-englands-opening-batsman-dilemma-10468688.html[/url] ([url]http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cricket/ashes-2015-back-to-nick-compton-is-the-answer-to-englands-opening-batsman-dilemma-10468688.html[/url])
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Agree to be honest, Hales deserves a good go but if he doesn't come off (which I hope he does!) then another solid opener would be a good move - don't think we need to worry about slow starts when we have the potential for such a free scoring middle order.
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/933816.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/933816.html)
"...the collapse in Dubai on the third morning was recognisable, a scene that is as much of a signature to a Pakistan-England contest as the extended single shot is to a Brian de Palma film.
Pace at one end, usually serious; legspin at the other; and in the middle, splayed and akimbo, England. Fast Man and the Leggie (said no badmazing '80s film poster ever); Wahab and Yasir; Shoaiby and Dani; Waz, or Vicky (but preferably Waz) and Mushy; Imran and Qadir..."
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Noooooooooooooo!
Trevor Baylis just told bbc tms that Ali will open in the thrid test!
They are discussing weather buttler needs a rest though.
One wrong decision, and merely discussing the other. It's painful being an English fan.
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Purely on stats getting rid of Compton was a wrong call and short sighted at the time, He was chopped because the Eng management wanted Root to.open, they put all their eggs in roots basket and have been paying for it ever since. Stats aside he has looked the most comfortable partner to cook over the last 2years. I suspect if Eng had retained him we wouldn't be having this discussion. I don't think Hales is the answer, but they should play him as he is there. Havinv said that I don't see why they can't bring Compton back in.
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Anyway.
JOE ROOT IS WORLDS NUMBER 1 test player!!!!!!
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slightly more positive news is that Root is now back at the top of the ICC test batting rankings
interesting that Broad is ranked higher than Stokes as an all-rounder
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Buttler doesn't need a rest, he needs to be dropped and told to learn how to bat in test cricket.
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Trevor Baylis just told bbc tms that Ali will open in the thrid test!
If that is true then I suspect that one of two things will happen!
1. Ali will hit a decent knock and Baylis will say what a good pick he is!
2. Ali will fail as an opener again, and will have to be moved down the order where he should really be anyway!
If 1, then Ali will open in SA and be very much found out against the likes of Steyn!!
If 2, and Hales is moved in to open, then it's a lot to ask for Hales to face that quality in his first International Test!!
What a mess!! :(
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Dont think the SA pace attack is to be feared so much any more, but given how he played the Sri Lankan and Indian pacers, Morne Morkel will take Moeen's head off.
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i dont think there is anyway Ali can open in SA he isnt good enough against a decent seam bowling pack. he should be batting at 7/8 but im also not convinved he is a decent spin bowler to get in the side, although he is one of the best we currently have.
whoever opens against SA is going to be thrown in against a very decent attack. similarly in a way the Adam lyth should of been given a go away in the Windies rather then waiting until the start of the English summer with no game practice
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Ali will open in last test as England like to give batsmen a good go even if not right
Its only bowlers they chop and change not the protected species of batsmen
They made the same mistake in WI not playing Lyth and Rashid and they are doing the same thing here with Hales
Whether he is good enough or not you won't know till you play him as Tresco and Vaughn did not have best of first class records before getting in England side so worth a go
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If I were in charge of England,
1. Keep Butler (too risky giving JB the gloves - may affect his batting), BUT tell him to play like a t20. Innovate and play some unorthodox shots vs the spinners (Sarfraz Ahmed did this to completely neutralize Herath vs SL)
2. Everyone else needs to graft his innings - learn from Cook, Root and Rashid
3. Have Ian Bell open with Cook (its a quick fix, but Ali is just no good up there)
4. Consider dropping Rashid for Samit, or a pacer - he's currently not good enough to trouble Pak (Abu Dhabi was aberration - Pakistan basically self destructed...won't happen again).
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I'm glad your not in charge.
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I'm glad your not in charge.
haha, me too. I do think one of the spinners needs to go though. Pak score all their runs vs Eng spinners.
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I'm glad your not in charge.
Have to agree haha
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Interesting Bayliss says Taylor is one of England's best players of spin. It might have been a good idea to put him in the side earlier than the 3rd test Trevor !
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If I were in charge of England,
1. Keep Butler (too risky giving JB the gloves - may affect his batting), BUT tell him to play like a t20. Innovate and play some unorthodox shots vs the spinners (Sarfraz Ahmed did this to completely neutralize Herath vs SL)
2. Everyone else needs to graft his innings - learn from Cook, Root and Rashid
3. Have Ian Bell open with Cook (its a quick fix, but Ali is just no good up there)
4. Consider dropping Rashid for Samit, or a pacer - he's currently not good enough to trouble Pak (Abu Dhabi was aberration - Pakistan basically self destructed...won't happen again).
Why keep Ali over rashid?? Rashid has bowled better than Ali in this series so you could argue drop Ali.. At least rashid showed fight
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Why keep Ali over rashid?? Rashid has bowled better than Ali in this series so you could argue drop Ali.. At least rashid showed fight
sure, I agree with that. point is...pakistan has just decimated the england spinners, and will continue to do so. the seamers are proving to be a headache for most of the pak batsmen.
swann and panesar were legitimately great bowlers - but right now, you gotta focus on your strength (pace).
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sure, I agree with that. point is...pakistan has just decimated the england spinners, and will continue to do so. the seamers are proving to be a headache for most of the pak batsmen.
swann and panesar were legitimately great bowlers - but right now, you gotta focus on your strength (pace).
Right, but why keep Ali the poorer spinner over rashid? Especially when rashid has also shown more apptitude to play test innings already than biff biff mo
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Rashids ability to pick shah for so long was quite amazing.
Some of the leaves he did that span away from the stumps that would have been hitting kept me on edge of my seat!!
He's clearly not a batsmen, first innings proved that, but as a number 8, he will be an asset with the bat.
Surely his spin can only improve??
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Right, but why keep Ali the poorer spinner over rashid? Especially when rashid has also shown more apptitude to play test innings already than biff biff mo
haha..i said i agree with you. drop ali.
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Sounds like Buttler is going to be dropped and Taylor in, at 5 I guess? http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan-v-england-2015-16/content/story/934212.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan-v-england-2015-16/content/story/934212.html)
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Rashids ability to pick shah for so long was quite amazing.
Some of the leaves he did that span away from the stumps that would have been hitting kept me on edge of my seat!!
He's clearly not a batsmen, first innings proved that, but as a number 8, he will be an asset with the bat.
Surely his spin can only improve??
The leaves were amazing, never seen anything like it! First class average of just under 36 with 10 tons mind, very similar stats to Ali and mostly playing in div 1. Moeen has done alright so far but on current showing, I'd have Rashid. Potential for improvement, more of a threat of actually getting batsmen out too. Delivered bigtime in his one attempt at bowling a side out on the last day of a game so far, and we've got Root and Stokes providing plenty of bowling if Rashid isn't quite there in first innings control at present. Hopefully he plays plenty of tests and improves!
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Everyone is going to hate me for this, but drop Bell for Taylor...
And/or drop Buttler for Hales
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Sounds like Buttler is going to be dropped and Taylor in, at 5 I guess?
Bell should be 5 and Taylor 3 imo.
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i'd drop Ali and Buttler
Think of all the good offies over the years and one thing they've all had in common is being able to blend movement/drift with impeccable control - Ali simply doesn't have the control and after nearly 18 months of test cricket doesn't seem to be improving on it either. If the ability to impart a bit of control as well as chip in with valuable wickets falls to one of the seamers I think Rashid has got more to work with moving forward and could be more of a weapon for England in the future
Buttler, well enough has been said and it's obvious he just needs a break to refresh, gather his thoughts, maybe go express himself have a change of scenery in the Big Bash or something. He'll come back, far too many people speak so highly of him and it's evident the talent is there. Doesn't strike me as being afraid of some graft to sort it out either.
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I would drop bell and buttler, move Ali down to somewhere into the middle order and then bring hales in to open and Taylor in at 3 bairstow dropping down to 7 therefore
Cook
Hales
Taylor
Root
Ali
Stokes
Bairstow
Rashid
Broad
Wood
Anderson
Still keeps the two spin options but brings in a more dynamic batsmen to open and at number 3 as well as adding more balance to the side in my opinion as buttler is completely out of form and just needs to go and score some runs in a t20 comp or such
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I think that looks good. Although tempted to play S. Patel perhaps... Pakistan always been suspect against left arm spinners.
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I would drop bell and buttler, move Ali down to somewhere into the middle order and then bring hales in to open and Taylor in at 3 bairstow dropping down to 7 therefore
Cook
Hales
Taylor
Root
Ali
Stokes
Bairstow
Rashid
Broad
Wood
Anderson
Still keeps the two spin options but brings in a more dynamic batsmen to open and at number 3 as well as adding more balance to the side in my opinion as buttler is completely out of form and just needs to go and score some runs in a t20 comp or such
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Exactly my thoughts
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I'd have same side but Bairstow at 5 and Ali at 7.
It's the side I've wanted since before test 1 started!
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I'd have same side but Bairstow at 5 and Ali at 7.
It's the side I've wanted since before test 1 started!
Either/or as long as Ali is in the middle order as he is no test opener. IMO
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From the very limited talent England have...
Cook
Hales
Taylor
Root
Bell
Stokes
Bairstow
Rashid
Broad
Wood
Anderson
That's 12, I'd be looking to lose a seamer as we don't need 4. If we really do, then bye bye bell . Ali just isn't good enough St bowling let alone batting or test cricket. Leave him for the slap and tickle stuff
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Samit Patel is surely no worse than Ali...especially given Pakistan's terrible record against left arm spin. Why not replace Ali with Patel? Taylor replaces Buttler...and Ian Bell gets asked to open. Hales will struggle against this attack and on these pitches.
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Can I ask why hales will struggle on this pitch against that attack?
People keep saying it and it baffles me.
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Can I ask why hales will struggle on this pitch against that attack?
People keep saying it and it baffles me.
It must be because of all the runs he's scored in international t20s in Asia... Oh wait that doesnt make sense. Give the lad a go.
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I would drop bell and buttler, move Ali down to somewhere into the middle order and then bring hales in to open and Taylor in at 3 bairstow dropping down to 7 therefore
Cook
Hales
Taylor
Root
Ali
Stokes
Bairstow
Rashid
Broad
Wood
Anderson
Still keeps the two spin options but brings in a more dynamic batsmen to open and at number 3 as well as adding more balance to the side in my opinion as buttler is completely out of form and just needs to go and score some runs in a t20 comp or such
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Almost what I would do. I'd have JB MA BS at 5/6/7, with Ali splitting up the two strawberry blonde lads to hopefully bring some solidness in between those two who have struggled a bit.
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Almost what I would do. I'd have JB MA BS at 5/6/7, with Ali splitting up the two strawberry blonde lads to hopefully bring some solidness in between those two who have struggled a bit.
As I said to smilley. I'm not too fussed on the order as long as those players are there and Ali isn't opening. I don't really mind on the order below 4 in general as long as the players are there
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Almost what I would do. I'd have JB MA BS at 5/6/7, with Ali splitting up the two strawberry blonde lads to hopefully bring some solidness in between those two who have struggled a bit.
Ali? Solidness? *facepalm*
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Can I ask why hales will struggle on this pitch against that attack?
People keep saying it and it baffles me.
He's a great talent, but hasn't really dominated the stats, has he? First class average below 40, ODI avg below 30, and didn't really shoot the lights out in the one warm up game that he played (supposedly that pitch was flatter than Abu Dhabi).
Secondly, you're pitting him against reverse swing and top quality spin - bit unfair to him.
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surely, Warne is just "sledging" ?
https://twitter.com/ShaneWarne/status/659689214662066176
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Mark wood ruled out of the third test.
That mean Plunkett straight in? Or play Patel and have 3 spin options?
Or if bell stays at 3, bring hales in for wood, and Ali down to 8 in the batting and root to bowl more?(probably not great on the root thing with his back)
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Fat lad Botham been hitting the sauce big time...
http://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/12351/10048348/englands-adil-rashid-can-spook-pakistan-on-turning-pitch-in-sharjah (http://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/12351/10048348/englands-adil-rashid-can-spook-pakistan-on-turning-pitch-in-sharjah)
Rashid has been buffet. I don't know what variation Rashid will use to spook Pakistan. Long hops or full pitch?
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Feel for wood having a chronic injury, hopefully plunkett gets the nod. Taylor for the woeful Buttler. Would like to see the back of Ali as well but I think he's untouchable for some reason
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Ali can do a decent job for England....but not opening the batting!
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Fat lad Botham been hitting the sauce big time...
[url]http://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/12351/10048348/englands-adil-rashid-can-spook-pakistan-on-turning-pitch-in-sharjah[/url] ([url]http://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/12351/10048348/englands-adil-rashid-can-spook-pakistan-on-turning-pitch-in-sharjah[/url])
Rashid has been buffet. I don't know what variation Rashid will use to spook Pakistan. Long hops or full pitch?
if its a spinning track, they need to bring in samit patel (replace ali). not sure why everyone has forgotten Pakistan's abysmal record against left arm spin.
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Replacing Moeen is a daft plan. Bat him at 5 or 6 where he should be and he will score runs and take wickets.
As mentioned once or twice he isn't an opening bat.
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According to cook, Ali will still be opener for tomorrow. Looks like Taylor is getting a game too
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Taylor confirmed as in this morning, Imran Khan out injured for Pakistan.
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Ali is a conundrum - he isn't the best spinner in the country by a long chalk but...all the ones that are better are either in their late 30s (Batty), horribly one dimensional misfits(Panesar, Kerrigan), or leg spinners. Yes, Rashid is a better bowler in second innings conditions but England have made it clear that they are not prepared to use their pace attack the way Yorkshire do to protect him early doors and see him as the second spinner so...
What would you do? Ali is a decent counterattacking number 6-8 in international cricket (okay, if I were being pedantic I'd say so will Rashid be in time), doesn't let anyone down in the field and has improved markedly as a bowler. For the time being, especially in English conditions where seam is more prevalent, he does a job and does it reasonably well. Whether he should be in the team in Australia next time round (no - he'd get murdered) or even in South Africa (no - four seamers plus Rashid is plenty) is a different matter. Mid term, I suspect the hope is that Ansari lives up to early promise and gives them the option of a more solid version of this six man attack, taking Ali's spot.
Bigger problem here is that England are about to extend the Jonny Bairstow problem. Whats the betting poor Jonny gets shunted down to seven despite doing well at five just because that's where the keeper bats, goddamn it. Since coming back into the team he's done well (better than anyone outside Cook and Root, that is to say) but this move will result in us still not knowing what his role should be or if he is quite good enough.
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http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/34687307 (http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/34687307)
Horrendously written, I thought Bairstow was already playing!
Pakistan v England: Jos Buttler dropped and Jonny Bairstow in
England wicketkeeper Jos Buttler has been dropped for the third Test against Pakistan in Sharjah.
Yorkshires' Jonny Bairstow, 26, will replace Buttler while England have further strengthened their batting line-up with James Taylor making his first Test appearance in three years.
Buttler, 25, has struggled with the bat in the three-match series, averaging 8.5 runs from four innings.
The final Test begins on Sunday with England 1-0 down in the series.
England fast bowler Mark Wood has beenrested for the match to protect a chronic ankle problem.
Captain Alastair Cook will make a call later on whether to play a third spinner or an extra seamer but is not contemplating making any more than two changes.
More to follow.
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So being stubborn and keeping ali only to drop him from opening in SA
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I can only assume Taylor goes in at 5 and Bairstow drops down to 7?
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Never mind the batting order! It will be irrelevant if Cook doesn't win the toss and bat first!
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I can only assume Taylor goes in at 5 and Bairstow drops down to 7?
Tough this - Bairstow really deserves to stay at five. I'd be inclined to get JT to open and move Ali down.
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Tough this - Bairstow really deserves to stay at five. I'd be inclined to get JT to open and move Ali down.
Sod it, leave Ali to open in sa as it'll finally quiet the Ali brigade who think he's in the best six test batsmen in England
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Sod it, leave Ali to open in sa as it'll finally quiet the Ali brigade who think he's in the best six test batsmen in England
More worried about Bluey getting a fair chance to nail down his spot, rather than being moved down to be replaced by GoldenJos as soon as is deemed fit having already lost his batting spot.
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More worried about Bluey getting a fair chance to nail down his spot, rather than being moved down to be replaced by GoldenJos as soon as is deemed fit having already lost his batting spot.
Taylor St 5 or 6 is good, it's where he should bat and will hopefully hit runs so goodenjos can't retake the spot
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Theyve already said Ali will open. Which rules out bell 2 Taylor 3 and ali 7.
I doubt very much Taylor will be at 7 or stokes will move.
So it'll be
Cook
Ali
Bell
Root
Taylor
Stokes
Bairstow
Rashid
A n other
Broad
Anderson
If a n other is Samir Patel that'll throw spanner in works for line up. If he goes 8 and Rashid 9 be a long batting line up(if everyone scores runs, if Ali bell and stokes fail it be as short as ever)
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Taylor St 5 or 6 is good, it's where he should bat and will hopefully hit runs so goodenjos can't retake the spot
Hmmm, but as we saw with Prior, that's not how this works - the management have a "preferred" keeper (now Buttler) who will start a series in most circumstances. So by dropping him for one game they've taken Bairstow from encumbent middle order player to stand in keeper. Which is the way he has been treated throughout his test career to date, which is not fair on him - nor is it fair on anyone else as he will keep getting half chances rather than being given time to prove yay or nay that he is worthy of a place in the side (in either role).
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Hmmm, but as we saw with Prior, that's not how this works - the management have a "preferred" keeper (now Buttler) who will start a series in most circumstances. So by dropping him for one game they've taken Bairstow from encumbent middle order player to stand in keeper. Which is the way he has been treated throughout his test career to date, which is not fair on him - nor is it fair on anyone else as he will keep getting half chances rather than being given time to prove yay or nay that he is worthy of a place in the side (in either role).
Completely agree, I hope bairstow gets sa and the next series at least to prove himself. Jos shouldn't come back to tests until he avg's 50+ over a season in Lvcc div 1 (not that scoring Lvcc runs means much)
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Completely agree, I hope bairstow gets sa and the next series at least to prove himself. Jos shouldn't come back to tests until he avg's 50+ over a season in Lvcc div 1 (not that scoring Lvcc runs means much)
You say that scoring runs in the Championship doesn't mean much, but if he doesn't score that many runs in the Championship that could tell the selectors a lot...
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Ali is a conundrum - he isn't the best spinner in the country by a long chalk but...all the ones that are better are either in their late 30s (Batty), horribly one dimensional misfits(Panesar, Kerrigan), or leg spinners. Yes, Rashid is a better bowler in second innings conditions but England have made it clear that they are not prepared to use their pace attack the way Yorkshire do to protect him early doors and see him as the second spinner so...
What would you do? Ali is a decent counterattacking number 6-8 in international cricket (okay, if I were being pedantic I'd say so will Rashid be in time), doesn't let anyone down in the field and has improved markedly as a bowler. For the time being, especially in English conditions where seam is more prevalent, he does a job and does it reasonably well. Whether he should be in the team in Australia next time round (no - he'd get murdered) or even in South Africa (no - four seamers plus Rashid is plenty) is a different matter. Mid term, I suspect the hope is that Ansari lives up to early promise and gives them the option of a more solid version of this six man attack, taking Ali's spot.
Bigger problem here is that England are about to extend the Jonny Bairstow problem. Whats the betting poor Jonny gets shunted down to seven despite doing well at five just because that's where the keeper bats, goddamn it. Since coming back into the team he's done well (better than anyone outside Cook and Root, that is to say) but this move will result in us still not knowing what his role should be or if he is quite good enough.
Can't wait to see Rashid bowl his dross at AB de Villiers...
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Can't wait to see Rashid bowl his dross at AB de Villiers...
Lyon will also be amusing
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I imagine it'll be back to one spinner by the time SA comes around...
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I imagine it'll be back to one spinner by the time SA comes around...
If that is the case it will be interesting seeing whether rashid stays in at the expense of Ali.if your playing as a spinner we need the one likely to take most wickets.Ali appears pretty un threatening so far.
He's not an opener whatever happens tomorrow and no way he could open against true pace in SA.
Which leaves England with a bit of a problem.
You would think for both to play either one of bell or Taylor misses out and you still don't have a proper opener in.
What happens if rashid gets a hatful in Sharjah? Gets left out of the next test?
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Lyon will also be amusing
England would give their left nut for a spinner like Lyon...
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England would give their left nut for a spinner like Lyon...
More rubbish from everyone's favourite Aussie.
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England would give their left nut for a spinner like Lyon...
They have one, he's called Moeen Ali! ;)
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England would give their left nut for a spinner like Lyon...
We Already have a dog toffee spinner in Ali, advantage is he can biff a bit at 8'unlike hapless Lyon. Keep it coming
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England would give their left nut for a spinner like Lyon...
He's just a poor mans Nathan Hauritz......
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The way Beefy has spoke recently I reckon they will play Fat boy to replace Wood for the extra spin.
Although I'm a massive Durham/Stokes up the order fan, Taylor should be as far up the order as possible! Personally I would have Taylor at 3 Bell at 5 Bairstow 6 and my man Stokes dropping down to 7. I suspect though it will sort of be direct replacements with Taylor at 5 to replace Jonny who moves to 7 as the keeper.
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We Already have a dog toffee spinner in Ali, advantage is he can biff a bit at 8'unlike hapless Lyon. Keep it coming
Lyon hapless? You've got him confused with Someone else...Lyon's gonna end up with 400 Test poles.
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Gotta have Bell open! Ali is a walking wicket up there.
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Wake up, check toss, goes back to bed.
Eurggggggggggggggggggggggggh
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JIMMY!
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MO MO MO
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Another wicket that will massively favour the tam batting first!
Pakistan haver that toss too and are batting.
That'll be 2-0 Pakistan! May go back to sleep!
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MOEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN
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sounds like a lot of turn from the wicket already. think england might struggle in the 4th innings. need to get decent first innings runs
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It's turning!!
Samir with much more control than Ali, by pakistans want to attack Ali cost them, although they have wound it in after that wicket and review.
No Rashid yet. Interesting to see what turn he gets first innings.
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This wicket is going to be a ripper.
Moeen being made to look a littler useful as it's turning but bring out bowled by samit
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These three don't half bowl some filth.
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Turning already? What a great toss to win! >:(
Have fun trying to bat on day 4/5 on this wicket......if it lasts that long!
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Turning already? What a great toss to win! >:(
Have fun trying to bat on day 4/5 on this wicket......if it lasts that long!
Definitely won't last 4 days!
Least it's going to be interesting viewing. The bowlers must want to kill cook for losing the toss again
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Bad toss to lose this one!! Theres no way its lasting past 3 days
Its a 'raging bunsen' i think is the term
Agree samit at least bowls with control,the other two are just too loose
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These three don't half bowl some filth.
Just thinking that myself, more long hops than a giant rabbit
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It sounds like my bowling! A few decent balls mixed in with some absolute filth!
I think that what our spinners seem to lack is consistency by the sounds of it!!
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It sounds like my bowling! A few decent balls mixed in with some absolute filth!
I think that what our spinners seem to lack is consistency by the sounds of it!!
Need to work harder then and become consistent. Hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours just bowling. That's what guys like warne did when they were young, hours and hours of hard yards
How many people talk about training etc but actually do very little to nothing.. Same with our pros I'd imagine, bet they spend most ofmtheirmday 0800-1700, not actually training
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BROADY
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6 overs, 1/1.
Not too shabby
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6-5-1-1
Shame we'll over get about four overs a session of tight economical bowling
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If that is the case it will be interesting seeing whether rashid stays in at the expense of Ali.if your playing as a spinner we need the one likely to take most wickets.Ali appears pretty un threatening so far.
Personally I would go with Rashid, but its pretty safe to say that Moeen has the eye of the selectors. You would assume they'll go:
Cook
Hales
Bell
Root
Bairstow
Taylor
Stokes
Ali/Rashid
Broad
Wood/Plunkett/Finn
Anderson
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Wake up, check toss, goes back to bed.
Eurggggggggggggggggggggggggh
Haha this is exactly what I did, pleasantly surprised now I've actually got up and turned the TV on!
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OH JIMMY JIMMY
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Another one down!
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A review of Shane Watson proportions
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If I was Stuart Broad I'd be spewing! Real intense period of accurate and varied fast bowling goes unrewarded, then Jimmy rolls up with a full bunger first ball
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Not sure why Patel is bowling. Really isn't a threat firing it and bowling over pitched deliveries. Really is poor quality "spin".
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I imagine Patel is bowling for his perceived threat of turning the ball away from the right handers. I thought ali turned it more and rashid must be a little miffed as the specialist spinner.
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And then samit gets one :-)
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That be why he's bowling......
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WOO HOO
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Get in!
Are some of you guys actually watching? Patel has bowled the best of the spinners by miles.
He's accurate on this track
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Not sure why Patel is bowling. Really isn't a threat firing it and bowling over pitched deliveries. Really is poor quality "spin".
Please could you do me a favour and criticise both Stokes and Patel! That way wickets should start to fall a both ends? ;)
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Safraz time! This be interesting as he's quite attacking although he looks very unconventional doing it!
Lots of sweeps time
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Please could you do me a favour and criticise both Stokes and Patel! That way wickets should start to fall a both ends? ;)
Will critising rashid's pies do? :D
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Safraz time! This be interesting as he's quite attacking although he looks very unconventional doing it!
Lots of sweeps time
Helps when you aren't scared of the seamers like Misbah.
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Will critising rashid's pies do? :D
Please do! ;)
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This be bizarre test cricket. Lots of uncontrolled aerial shots just missing fielders at mo.
Can you not put the spinners bad balls away in the floor?
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Swann and Monty would of bowled Pakistan out by now on this deck.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
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Looks like we're down to two seamers then...
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Looks like the injury is to his bowling shoulder too. Yikes, I hope it isn't bad.
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YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS
We're into the tail, boys!
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It's incredible how the talentless Moeen Ali keeps getting gifted wickets...
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SAMIT YA BEAUTY!
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Poor test batting from Pakistan
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YES!
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Spinners pitch ermmmnn
Will have to see how pak bowl but 5 to seamers wasn't expected at start of the day
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England don't wanna get the last wicket tonight!
As losing Ali before close will kill moral.......
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With change of innings 3 overs left unless pak bat out day
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What a day
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Broad and Anderson have been brilliant today! Shame the same can't be said about the "spinners"
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Brilliant stuff from us even Aussie in England will be praising the poms
Patel I thought did well but no control from the others
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SIX!!
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What was Ali thinking? Last over of the day and he heaves a big slog over the leg side.
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What was Ali thinking? Last over of the day and he heaves a big slog over the leg side.
One day hoik that he got away with
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This should finally end any comments about Anderson or Broad not being world class. The pair have 632 combined wickets as a combo and both been match winners in every continent on earth that cricket is played. Superb and Anderson as a bowler must be on a par with steyn. A few months time should confirm that statement.
Really hope the batters think about there innings and compile a 400 odd score and give us a great chance of levelling the series as I feel a draw is a fair result for both sides
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What an immaculate bowling performance Anderson 15-7-17-4. Broad 13-8-13-2 to bowl 15 maiden overs from 28 bowled at this level is world class.
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This should finally end any comments about Anderson or Broad not being world class. The pair have 632 combined wickets as a combo and both been match winners in every continent on earth that cricket is played. Superb and Anderson as a bowler must be on a par with steyn. A few months time should confirm that statement.
I think they are excellent bowlers, but as for Anderson being on par with Dale Steyn? Steyn's average of 22.5 vs Anderson's of 29.2. Steyn's SR of one wicket every 41.4 balls vs Anderson's 57.6. Steyn 24 5WI vs Anderson's 18. Sure Anderson has 20 more wickets but he has bowled in 55 more innings.
Don't get me wrong, I think Anderson is fantastic and certainly world class, but he isn't on par with Dale Steyn. I would say Broad and Anderson are second behind Steyn and Philander though as a pace attack.
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Low score posted by Pakistan. Let's see how England fare. As they say, you can't comment on the pitch until both sides have batted.
I say England as a unit have bowled well in this test series.
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One day hoik that he got away with
To be fair there wasn't a lot of risk in that shot. Also if you watch Ali play then you would realise he favours that shot a lot to bowlers who come around the wicket to him.
Moving on to tomorrow... l would hope England are a bit more aggressive than the last test against the spinners. Even Root went into his shell. Rashid and Broad showed that being positive and USING your feet is the best way to play spinners. Butler, Stokes, Root etc let the spinners bowl to them how the spinners wanted to rather than disrupting the spinners rhythm.
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I will eat a hat if Stokes winds up playing any more of this match, would probably send him home from the series and recover for SA
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To be fair there wasn't a lot of risk in that shot. Also if you watch Ali play then you would realise he favours that shot a lot to bowlers who come around the wicket to him.
So because he favours it it's a sensible option? Remind me how well he's done the last few games?
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I think they are excellent bowlers, but as for Anderson being on par with Dale Steyn? Steyn's average of 22.5 vs Anderson's of 29.2. Steyn's SR of one wicket every 41.4 balls vs Anderson's 57.6. Steyn 24 5WI vs Anderson's 18. Sure Anderson has 20 more wickets but he has bowled in 55 more innings.
Don't get me wrong, I think Anderson is fantastic and certainly world class, but he isn't on par with Dale Steyn. I would say Broad and Anderson are second behind Steyn and Philander though as a pace attack.
Nobody can argue that Anderson and Broad (when he is firing) are World Class.
But I must agree with you that Steyn is a level above! Come to think of it, Steyn is a level above any other bowler in the World anyway!
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Brilliant stuff from us even Aussie in England will be praising the poms
Patel I thought did well but no control from the others
Bet he won't praise from an Aussie most unlikely.
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So because he favours it it's a sensible option? Remind me how well he's done the last few games?
Fair point but I think most people would agree that batting is a confidence thing. No better way to regain confidence than playing one of your favourite shots. I would also point out that many including myself do not see Ali as an opener at test match level. So therefore I for one have NOT been surprised by his failures. Very hard to change your natural game unless you are extremely talented. In my opinion Ali is not extremely talented. :)
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I normally slate broad but he and Anderson bowled really well today. Bowled with discipline and good lines/lengths. Fair play to both
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I think they are excellent bowlers, but as for Anderson being on par with Dale Steyn? Steyn's average of 22.5 vs Anderson's of 29.2. Steyn's SR of one wicket every 41.4 balls vs Anderson's 57.6. Steyn 24 5WI vs Anderson's 18. Sure Anderson has 20 more wickets but he has bowled in 55 more innings.
Don't get me wrong, I think Anderson is fantastic and certainly world class, but he isn't on par with Dale Steyn. I would say Broad and Anderson are second behind Steyn and Philander though as a pace attack.
Steyn has had a much better career yeah, Anderson v2 after he got in the test side consistently and went back to his original action is much much closer on stats though.
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Huge day coming up - I don't think a draw is possible given how quickly the first innings got wrapped up. My gut feel says England all out for 280-300, setting up yet another exciting finish.
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Up and ready! Come on boys. 300 plus please.
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5 overs this Morning and we are back to spin!!
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Moeen and these stupid bloody shots
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I wonder how many more failures it will take before England realise Ali is no more than a slogging #7 or #8
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Not a real batsman.
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Nick, Sam, Michael, Jonathan and Adam please come back, all is forgiven!
Begining to think even Ali doesn't want to open and is doing his best to get dropped.!
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First session done, and only the hapless night watchmen has fell.........
Pakistan not looking overly threatening.
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This should finally end any comments about Anderson or Broad not being world class. The pair have 632 combined wickets as a combo and both been match winners in every continent on earth that cricket is played. Superb and Anderson as a bowler must be on a par with steyn. A few months time should confirm that statement.
Really hope the batters think about there innings and compile a 400 odd score and give us a great chance of levelling the series as I feel a draw is a fair result for both sides
Anderson on par with Steyn? Delusional.
Steyn is a first ballot hall of famer. Anderson will be relying on pity to ever get near the ICC hall of fame.
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Nick, Sam, Michael, Jonathan and Adam please come back, all is forgiven!
Begining to think even Ali doesn't want to open and is doing his best to get dropped.!
much discussion on these boards before the tour started whether Adam Lyth deserved another tour to try and find his feet at International level.
I wonder what he is thinking now !!
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Lyth was useless and I can only imagine him falling to similar dismissals.
Bumble doing the football commentary there was great
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Oh ffs
At least Root is now in
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Jug avoidance, Alastair?
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much discussion on these boards before the tour started whether Adam Lyth deserved another tour to try and find his feet at International level.
I wonder what he is thinking now !!
Who would we have left out for him?
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Who would we have left out for him?
[/quote
No top international team can continue for long without proper opening batsmen,england are no nearer now sorting it than the summer.
Hales or lyth on this trip.we dont know about hales as he has not had a chance
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we are screwed
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here's hoping JT shows them what they have been missing as we are a batsmen down without stokes
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here's hoping JT shows them what they have been missing as we are a batsmen down without stokes
One potential saving grace is that Patel has come in for Wood and is a much more recognised batsman.
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yeah and patel can play spin well apparently although I haven't seen much of him
just means patel 7 Rashid 8
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yeah and patel can play spin well apparently although I haven't seen much of him
just means patel 7 Rashid 8
Which is where I'd bat Rashid anyways to be fair.
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How about we chug through the rest of the day at 2.6 per over and no alarms? That'll leave us on what - 250?
As boring as it is, I'll take that.
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How about we chug through the rest of the day at 2.6 per over and no alarms? That'll leave us on what - 250?
As boring as it is, I'll take that.
Amen. Taylor strikes me as the kind of batsman who likes to be busy at the crease though, much in the way Root is.
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Yeah England have the club problem of having to many people that bat and bowl so hard to find someone to bat 9/10/11
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My club never has any problem putting me at no10 - and I think I'm a unique batsman!!
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Yeah England have the club problem of having to many people that bat and bowl so hard to find someone to bat 9/10/11
I dunno, Anderson is a pretty convincing 11 most of the time :D
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One potential saving grace is that Patel has come in for Wood and is a much more recognised batsman.
Really? Wood is no mug with the bat, and I think as Patel's bowling has come on his batting has unfortunately digressed over the last couple of seasons.
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Really? Wood is no mug with the bat, and I think as Patel's bowling has come on his batting has unfortunately digressed over the last couple of seasons.
I'm not saying he's Bradman but Patel still bats top 6 for Notts doesn't he? Admittedly I haven't seen much of him over the past year or two so he might have regressed significantly.
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Anderson would probably open the batting for most of the sides we play for
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Anderson would probably open the batting for most of the sides we play for
The way they're going through them, he may well be opening the batting for England before long :-[
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Anderson would probably open the batting for most of the sides we play for
Absolutely! He's still a test 11 though surely?
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Bell playing one of his most important innings for England? if he can dig us up to level(ish) par with Pakistan's 1st innings does it prove the doubters wrong?
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Yes - a big score here under duress would certainly silence the doubters (myself included)
That said - odds on him tossing it of between 50 - 60? :)
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To be fair (and I'm a bit of a Bell doubter myself) a lot of English sports fans are very fickle so they'll only back him again until he next get's a low score then he'll be public enemy number 1 again!
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I'm a bears fan and I've never been a Bell for England fan as he gets pretty runs but not big runs when we need them
I wouldn't mind England dropping him as he would score a ton for us in the CC
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I would really love Taylor to get a score though - he seems to have something about him.
Plus think of all the scenes of rejoicing in Hobbiton if he did!
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Taylor comes in under pressure with a little 26 no at tea shows class
pocket dynamo!
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What kind of low grade, village cricket rubbish was that from Ian Bell?
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Everyone quick we need to get back on the Bell hate train :D
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Arise Sir Ian Bell...end
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Any news on stokes? Or are England basically 5 down here
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Yes - a big score here under duress would certainly silence the doubters (myself included)
That said - odds on him tossing it of between 50 - 60? :)
....and there we go!
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does that count as he did it in the 40's?
Taylor (37) now has more runs this series than Butler (34) maybe he will close in on stokes (76) or even Bairstow (91 before today)
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Might prove a crucial 40 this game is heading for a result
If we can only get a first innings lead :)
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Maiden fifty for Titch, get in
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Always been a JT fan a true pocket rocket
hopefully he gets a big one and cements his place in the order
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JT at 5 and Bairstow/Buttler at 7 always looked like a much better batting line up to me.
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He has scored runs consistently for a year no matter what shirt he was in so they had to get him in eventually, I'm just glad he is showing ECB what they have been missing
Roooooooooot 4 JT 5 is solid with hitters to come
just need a no. 2&3 now
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He has scored runs consistently for a year no matter what shirt he was in so they had to get him in eventually, I'm just glad he is showing ECB what they have been missing
Roooooooooot 4 JT 5 is solid with hitters to come
just need a no. 2&3 now
I think Gary Ballance could get back in somewhere along the line, he's got the temperament to be a good no. 3 just needs to work on his technique a little bit.
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Im not convinced by balance as test cricket just seems a bridge too far like it was for ramps
happy to be proved wrong but if they picked someone like hales at the top we could prob do it as cant have cook A.Nother blocker then balance
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The only person we haven't mentioned at 3 is Ravi Bop :D
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Let's see how Bell does against SA first.
Finding the right number 2 is priority at the moment!
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to be honest I would like to see root bat 3 but is it a risk moving him when he is scoring loads at 4?
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Im not convinced by balance as test cricket just seems a bridge too far like it was for ramps
happy to be proved wrong but if they picked someone like hales at the top we could prob do it as cant have cook A.Nother blocker then balance
Is blockers up the top too much of a concern with such a potentially explosive lower middle order of Stokes, Buttler et al. surely they would benefit from a proper platform being set?
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to me if you clump up the blockers its just as bad as clumping up hitters
I think you need to mix it up but that's just me
don't need a person to tee off just someone who scores at decent rate as strauss was no hitter but ticked along
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to me if you clump up the blockers its just as bad as clumping up hitters
I think you need to mix it up but that's just me
don't need a person to tee off just someone who scores at decent rate as strauss was no hitter but ticked along
No it's a fair train of thought and one that I agree with to an extent but for my money having players like Root and Taylor in your top 5 who are busy, positive players without being hitters is enough to allow some blockers up at the top. That's my take on it anyways.
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If you want to alternate the hitters and blockers, and Bell's form does not improve any further, then I would quite like to see:
Cook, Hales, Compton, Root, Taylor, Bairstow, Stokes, Ali, Woods, Broad, Anderson
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to be honest I would like to see root bat 3 but is it a risk moving him when he is scoring loads at 4?
Me too. I think this makes most sense when Bell is done, with Titch at 4.
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Me too. I think this makes most sense when Bell is done, with Titch at 4.
For me I'd be more tempted to have that the other way round with 3/4/5 going Taylor/Root/Ballance(or A.N Other)
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I bet Taylor didn't want the day to end
he has to be nailed on for an extended run now or the hierarchy need a very very very good reason to drop him
sad for Butler as with titch and Bairstow getting runs it could be a lengthy time on the sidelines although im still to be convinced by Bairstow at this level as a batsmen or keeper he deserves a run to see what he can do
heres hoping for a tich ton and a 50-100 run lead min tomorrow as will set up a cracking game
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Agreed. That ended better than I thought it would.
I fancy Bairstow to do better against the SA seamers than spin.
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Bairstow is a far better selection as a keeper than batsman, don't think he's good enough to be a specialist bat but if his keeping is tidy then he could do a decent job atb7, Matt Prior style. Finally Taylor makes the team and shows why he should have been in it for years! Hopefully he now stays, the middle order will look a lot more solid with him in it. Bell stays in the forseeabke future as the experienced player for me, just need to get someone playing well opening!
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i'm not a keeper but with 3 spinners for us in the 1st innings I think Bairstow has kept pretty well?
We def are in danger of having no openers(I'M AVAILABLE I'VE BEEN SHUNTED DOWN THE ORDER FROM MY TEAM,DROPPED LIKE A STONE IN FACT IF I WAS A DOG I'D BE IN BATTERSEA), excuse the capitals just letting off steam.....
but if the team pans out the way others have mentioned above does Butler become a one day player? I don't think the way forward is clear for him,especially if we win this match...
:)
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Today was a day that raised more questions than it answered in terms of England's long term selections!
Taylor batted really well, so did Bairstow - the problem here is, the two of them still look to be competing for one slot in the side. Bell has probabaly saved his bacon for South Africa, Ali will drop down the order or be dropped entirely for Hales and I still expect that Buttler will be brought straight back in to the side - England said as much when describing his being dropped as a Joe Root style wake up call, which at the time meant miss the last test and come back to start the next series.
It would be harsh to drop Taylor even if he was dismissed twice in two balls from here...but the same applies to Bairstow. In a way it seems odd - at the start of the series Bluey was deemed our best #5 and has batted well - but Taylor is brough in due to the reshuffle and bats ahead of him. Talk about mixed messages.
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They surely have to see how the likes of Hales and Buttler go in the ODIs to judge their form before making a decision?
Only an absolute spanner would think that Buttler is in any kind of form!! He can barely buy a run and he will be destroyed by the SA bowling attack!!
That would be insane! :(
If Bell has just about done enough to save number 3 and they want to stay with Ali in the mid-lower order, then sure there is not a place for Buttler, Rashid or Patel in the team to SA? Maybe in the squad but not in the starting 11!
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IF Bell is in the last few series of his career....why not send up up the order with Cook. Is he skilled enough? Absolutely. Does he have enough hunger? Well, the challenge may rejuvenate him.
This will preserve the balance of the team (Ali stays as a spinner...and Barstow and Taylor don't have to make room for a "proper" opener).
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I'd hope they will send Buttler off to actually play some cricket someplace, get him in a NZ or SA first class side or the big bash rather than just taking him as a squad member to SA, he won't improve his form carrying drinks! Who you then pick as the backup keeper I don't know though.
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Based on today:-
Cook
***Anybody or Hales***
Root
Bell
Taylor
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Wood
Broad
Anderson
Can't see Rashid getting a bowl in SA, home of the seam bowler. 4 seamers and Ali all the way. Bat long and deep in the hope the SA 3 man pace attack get's tired. Like the idea of a responsible adult (Taylor) batting in the middle order. Having Bairstow, Stokes and Buttler was asking for trouble if you need to dig in.
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Based on today I can see it being
Cook
Hales
Bell
Root
Taylor
Ali
Bairstow
Plunkett
Broad
Anderson
I would like Rashid in but I doubt they will as they will need the 4th seamer as I doubt stokes will be test match fit by SA
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Reading between the lines Stokes injury isn't as bad as first feared. Most of the news is talking about him not bowling in this match but batting is still to be decided. I'm no expert on dislocation but he must be in a reasonable condition if they haven't ruled out batting yet. I assume it depends on the extent of the soft tissue damage.
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Based on today I can see it being
Cook
Hales
Bell
Root
Taylor
Ali
Bairstow
Plunkett
Broad
Anderson
I would like Rashid in but I doubt they will as they will need the 4th seamer as I doubt stokes will be test match fit by SA
Surly Wood is in front of Plunkett? 90mph plus on SA decks is perfect for him
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I think roco thought we were playing ten a side...
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Just looked at the score, and who needs root when you have Titch!!!
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If Stokes is not available for SA Tests, I would be tempted to have the following:
Cook
Hales
Bell
Root
Taylor
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes/Plunkett
Wood
Broad
Anderson
Can't decide between Woakes or Plunkett!
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Keep Rashid in, he'll get more bounce in SA, offer some variation and would be good for his long term development. I hope he doesn't get messed around by England .
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If Stokes is not available, I would be sorely tempted to recall Tim Bresnan - had a great season for Yorkshire with both bat and ball and bowls the hard overs that are needed to protect Anderson and Wood. Perhaps:
Cook
Hales
Bell
Root
Taylor
Bairstow
Bresnan
Rashid
Broad
Wood/Plunkett
Anderson
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Nah, all aboard the Willey train!
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No one think Ballance deserves another shot?
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@edge if Buttler plays elsewhere then I'd say Sam Billings as the back up keeper
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2&3 batting slots will be up for grabs over the next 12 months, SA tour may bring about Bells retirement and I don't see Hales cutting it.
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Nah, all aboard the Willey train!
that the title of your new movie? ;)
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Can we please either sack off one day Ali or at the very least demote him back to his rightful place at 8
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No one think Ballance deserves another shot?
Next Summer probably, once Bell has gone.
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@edge if Buttler plays elsewhere then I'd say Sam Billings as the back up keeper
Billings with his average of 28 in division 2 of the county championship this season :o?
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He's part of the set up already, so would be good to be around the team, plus I'm only picking him as a reserve keeper. It's unlikely he'll play.
Do love the way you offered an alterative though @Sam
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He's part of the set up already, so would be good to be around the team, plus I'm only picking him as a reserve keeper. It's unlikely he'll play.
Do love the way you offered an alterative though @Sam
Didn't feel the need to given I'd take about half the keepers around in county cricket over Billings as a backup option right now for test cricket, even if it meant going back to one of the few of them that are getting on a bit now.
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Bell does not play one day or t20 cricket so butler and maybe bairstow could play in the one dayers.Butler has been dropped just for the test here
He's a serious talent im sure England would want him to find form in the limited overs games.Hes more of a thumper so it may help him to have a short format.
England will be doing everything to get him in form theres a lot invested in him.
Not sure theres an easy route back to tests thou-the middle order is a bit crowded.
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Personally love Jason Roy (bit biased as a surrey fan)
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Roy has got something about him he's a good bet to come through.
Personally i think he's a better player than Hales
And im a middx fan so not biased!!
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Nah, all aboard the Willey train!
Not the worst shout as a bowler who has decent pace and can take opposition bowling apart with the bat too......although Steyn & Co is a rather steep step up in class from County bowlers!! ;)
And I love the way Roy plays - no fear!! Either way, Hales or Roy and even Bell couldn't do any worse than Ali as an opener!!
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Not the worst shout as a bowler who has decent pace and can take opposition bowling apart with the bat too......although Steyn & Co is a rather steep step up in class from County bowlers!! ;)
And I love the way Roy plays - no fear!! Either way, Hales or Roy and even Bell couldn't do any worse than Ali as an opener!!
I think the team would benefit from a left arm seamer; mentioned him as he's an allrounder but Foottit is a proper bowler
Also love Roy as a Surrey fan but at this moment in time he's nowhere near ready. Needs to open for Surrey at County level and not bat at 5/6 where he was last year.
Depending on how he starts next year maybe add Rory Burns to the list
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Did you go to the final V. Glos?
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No, but I watched it on TV. Is that question in relation to a player I've mentioned?
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No was just wondering if you went! Curran brothers were fantastic, great day apart from the result, but Div 1!!!!!
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I loathe the expression "not ready".
Jason Roy is ready, anyone who watched the time he had to play the quicks in the odi series can see that.
Not an opening bat mind... Needs to be a 5 or a 6 where we have loads of possible options.
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You're basing an ODI series on his suitability for test matches?
For me the next natural step for him is to open red ball for Surrey like he does in T20/50 over games rather than sitting down at 5/6, England have plenty of 5/6 players whereas an opener is sorely needed.
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Mainly on Church's view and his performances in red ball cricket over the last 2 seasons.
I think 4 may be as high as he could go in a test team
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Just seen Mark Butcher on the verdict, can't have played much at Colchester because it's a bloody road there
-
To be fair there wasn't a lot of risk in that shot. Also if you watch Ali play then you would realise he favours that shot a lot to bowlers who come around the wicket to him.
Moving on to tomorrow... l would hope England are a bit more aggressive than the last test against the spinners. Even Root went into his shell. Rashid and Broad showed that being positive and USING your feet is the best way to play spinners. Butler, Stokes, Root etc let the spinners bowl to them how the spinners wanted to rather than disrupting the spinners rhythm.
Ali falls again slogging. Undefendable
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I loathe the expression "not ready".
Jason Roy is ready, anyone who watched the time he had to play the quicks in the odi series can see that.
Not an opening bat mind... Needs to be a 5 or a 6 where we have loads of possible options.
@Buzz , you do have a strange tendency to believe that anyone who has worn a brown cap is suddenly a nailed on cert for text cricket. There are probably fifteen to twenty guys ahead of Roy in the pecking order (if we generously assume that everyone given an ODI cap must now be considered for Text cricket) and he has done nothing to move up that list of late. Maybe one day...but I wouldn't put the mortgage on it.
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No was just wondering if you went! Curran brothers were fantastic, great day apart from the result, but Div 1!!!!!
will be interesting to see how a lot of Surrey's young lads (and Mark Footitt) do in the top division next year - the two Curran's, Roy, Burns, Ansari, Sibley, Davies, Foakes, Dunn. Some, I suspect, will be found out, whereas some might surprise a few people.
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Good point, Cant wait!!!
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The one with the topknot (Tom?) Will do just fine in div 1, younger Curran will find it a lot harder next season I suspect. Hopefully Footit makes good use of the move up divisions to earn himself an England chance. I worry for the standard of quick bowling in div 2, with Surrey promoted, Mills not playing first class and Footit and Fuller moving to div 1 clubs, is there anyone even close to genuinely quick left in the entire division?
Looking forward to today in the test match, hopefully Taylor can play us into a lead and also really nail down his space in the team.
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(No Swearing Please)!
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Bugger
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Double bugger.
We need to be careful here as a 4th innings chase is not gonna be easy. Need to put another 60-100 on and still bowl them out cheaply to win.
Any chase over 150 will be hard work!
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100 lead looking a bit far away now,samit and rashid need to launch a few,prodding around is playing into their hands!
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Rumours abound that Stokes will bat so could still be batting to come even after these two. Test match in the balance!
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Reading into the wording of the statement I don't think Stokes will bat unless it's a less than 20 to win in the final innings sort of a job.
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Reading into the wording of the statement I don't think Stokes will bat unless it's a less than 20 to win in the final innings sort of a job.
Sounded a little ambiguous, TV has shown him sitting not padded up now so he's clearly not going to bat in the first innings by the looks of things.
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Big samit giving the selectors something to think about
Bowled well in the first innings,handy knock too
Are we sure we will dump both him and rashid for SA?
:)
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Big samit giving the selectors something to think about
Bowled well in the first innings,handy knock too
Are we sure we will dump both him and rashid for SA?
:)
Well, he's unlikely to get a batting spot, and his bowling included far too many full bungers for a finger spinner. Moeen will, however fortunately, keep his spot I reckon.
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Rashid gone. We reckon broads gonna go for the quick 30 before the short ball get sh after lunch? Or bat properly?
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Rashid gone. We reckon broads gonna go for the quick 30 before the short ball get sh after lunch? Or bat properly?
that was quite a superb catch
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The one with the topknot (Tom?) Will do just fine in div 1, younger Curran will find it a lot harder next season I suspect. Hopefully Footit makes good use of the move up divisions to earn himself an England chance. I worry for the standard of quick bowling in div 2, with Surrey promoted, Mills not playing first class and Footit and Fuller moving to div 1 clubs, is there anyone even close to genuinely quick left in the entire division?
Looking forward to today in the test match, hopefully Taylor can play us into a lead and also really nail down his space in the team.
I think thats probabaly not a bad assessment - Tom looks a reasonable bowler, Sam one who will be good in two or three years time - though the step up in class will still be a big challenge for both. As for the Division 2 issue, Sussex look pretty well stocked, with Magoffin, Jordan, Hatchett, Anyon and Robinson, though none of them are serious gas at the top professional level. Other than that...Worcestershire let Graham Cessford go, there's a lad called (I think) Penhryn-Jones at Glamorgan who looked pretty sharp the one time I saw him...nope thats all I have.
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Well, he's unlikely to get a batting spot, and his bowling included far too many full bungers for a finger spinner. Moeen will, however fortunately, keep his spot I reckon.
So they will opt for the guy scoring less runs and going for more runs for no more wickets.. Interesting theory selectors
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why cant they just pick whoever is the best spinner?
we went through this crap in the 90's for those who remember. Picking bits and pieces cricketers because he could bat a bit or bowl a bit
decide who the best spinner is and pick him
toss up between ali and Rashid for me but id prob give Rashid a run to see what he can do as ali has had a run but does not seem to be getting better
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@Manormanic Sussex is a fair point, realised after id posted that they got relgated.Jordan can bowl some decent place. Do they still have Shahzad? Had forgotten about Penrhyn Jones, possibly because although he's got a yard of pace he looked absolutely dire against glos last game of the season, tailenders smashing him everywhere.
Ohballs. Well bowled Yasir. Burnley Lara to the rescue,
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Stokes has his pads on!!! Quick smash at 11 coming up.
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Time for some good old fashioned bottom hand batting then. Most likely Broad will throw the bat and Stokes block?
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Stokes coming from up north where they where t-shirts in December on a night out to start putting it into the stands
:)
anyone old enough(!) may remember Marshall getting a 50 against us literally with one hand.His wrist had a plastercast on it...
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Stokes doing my hometown proud, they breed us tough up here boys!
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Stokes is clearly spewing already, him bowling at Wahab next summer should be good fun
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I remember the marshall one as he got 5 wickets afterwards didn't he?
cant remember him getting 50 though but memory may be going
good tough northerner
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I don't think he got a 50 Carlo - but I think he did hit a 4.
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hmmm, memory is fading a bit Cat but if I remember he cleaned us up bowling and then hit a 50 and literally could only use one arm
Stokesy wearing it for us, you got to admire this bloke
a few in the memory banks for next summer with Wahab if he keeps up with the short stuff
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hmmm, memory is fading a bit Cat but if I remember he cleaned us up bowling and then hit a 50 and literally could only use one arm
Stokesy wearing it for us, you got to admire this bloke
a few in the memory banks for next summer with Wahab if he keeps up with the short stuff
I remember watching it it was 50
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Stokes coming from up north where they where t-shirts in December on a night out to start putting it into the stands
:)
anyone old enough(!) may remember Marshall getting a 50 against us literally with one hand.His wrist had a plastercast on it...
Tee shirts in December ? watching the Newcastle game they didnt wear any shirts.
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I remember watching it it was 50
I think you might be confused. I remember it as 4 and out, so does youtube:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeHsvctOaHQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeHsvctOaHQ)
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NOBODY ESCAPES THE NERD-POLICE!!!
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Stokes has his pads on!!! Quick smash at 11 coming up.
You got the quick part right ;)
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You got the quick part right ;)
Blimey - are you still an hour or two behind real time?? ???
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Good session from Pakistan,it's turning back in their favour
cor blimey where are we going to get some spinners who can actually land it in the right place?
monty panesar what happened....
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We really should have cloned Swann while we had the chance...
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Blimey - are you still an hour or two behind real time?? ???
Yeah, but seeing that and checking the scores on cricinfo I had to say it
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monty panesar what happened....
I think it was short sighted of England not to take a more active role in his career, particularly when Swann retired. I'm not saying Essex/Sussex did anything wrong and the issue seemed to be with him than the counties. However, even in his present situation I can't believe he would be worse than what we have out there at the moment. Could they not of had a look at him post season and brought him to the UAE as part of the support team, with a view to seeing how he shaped up if needed? Big call, but when you only have 1 world class spinner and you are heading to turning pitches you need to look after him.
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I think it was short sighted of England not to take a more active role in his career, particularly when Swann retired. I'm not saying Essex/Sussex did anything wrong and the issue seemed to be with him than the counties. However, even in his present situation I can't believe he would be worse than what we have out there at the moment. Could they not of had a look at him post season and brought him to the UAE as part of the support team, with a view to seeing how he shaped up if needed? Big call, but when you only have 1 world class spinner and you are heading to turning pitches you need to look after him.
couldn't agree more, been watching some of the lollipops we have been serving up it's just crying out for an accurate spinner. I reckon Patel is the best of the bunch so far!! that aint saying much really
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Rashid is bowling nicely second time around.
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is there a better spinner in England though?
I really worry that we just don't have anyone that is good enough as Rashid was the best wicket taker wasn't he?
im hopeful by the looks of mason Crane etc but will we get them in to give them a long run or do we need to just jack the spinner for now and have a part timer like root ala WI with Viv (Although our quicks are not as good)
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That's one way to break a partnership...
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Malik pays for Hafeez's six!!!
Pak: 33/2 (Effectively)
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They need to drag Swanny (or even Tuffers) out of the TMS box and get him to lecture all the spinners about landing the damn ball.
Absolute load of tosh so far. Embarrassing.
Ali seems to have lost the accuracy that has made him effective. And Rashid has been awful, leggies get away with bowling the odd long hop or full toss as they take wickets. But other than that 5-fer he's not been taking any, or tbh, even looking like it.
All this pitch needs is someone who can run up and plonk it on a length, Shoaib Malik ended up with a 4-fer for petes sake!
Tredwell should have been brought on this trip in my opinion, did pretty well against WI earlier this year, only went for 2 an over and got 5 in the test. Maybe not as threatening, but at least he can land the ball consistently enough to exert some pressure.
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tredwell is a good pro youre right. and what we need is a good pro on these tracks.Look at the way the Pakistan spinners bowl, something happens if you land it on the spot most times.
We really really miss Swanny, I've said before the guy won us match after match and is sorely missed.
And good shout on Tuffers, I know his time has past but forget the comic image, he could bowl superb on his day.
the cupboard aint got much in it at the moment, on this trip Patel and Rashid look the best, bit hard to say thou as Patel has only played one match. I think Ali is going backwards which is a real shame
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Breakthrough by Broad?!
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What a ball
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tredwell is a good pro youre right. and what we need is a good pro on these tracks.Look at the way the Pakistan spinners bowl, something happens if you land it on the spot most times.
We really really miss Swanny, I've said before the guy won us match after match and is sorely missed.
And good shout on Tuffers, I know his time has past but forget the comic image, he could bowl superb on his day.
the cupboard aint got much in it at the moment, on this trip Patel and Rashid look the best, bit hard to say thou as Patel has only played one match. I think Ali is going backwards which is a real shame
Yes Tuffers is a good call he was a match winner on his day he only played around 40 tests though seem to recall England management at one time considered his fielding to be a luxury they couldnt afford.
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the way Ali has been managed by England won't have helped either - picking him as an opener will have meant him spending a lot less time focusing on his bowling. If you want him to be your front line spinner for all conditions then sod his batting, he's got a natural talent in that which will keep him handy down the order, and get him just bowling bowling bowling.
He's clearly able to put revs and movement on the ball but it's astounding how little control he seems to have
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Malik has just announced Test retirement in the middle of the game?!
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Why not ask Shane Warne if he's interested in coaching England now he and Cook get on.
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Why not ask Shane Warne if he's interested in coaching England now he and Cook get on.
Love this idea but I get the feeling he's too busy whoring himself out around the world haha
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the way Ali has been managed by England won't have helped either - picking him as an opener will have meant him spending a lot less time focusing on his bowling. If you want him to be your front line spinner for all conditions then sod his batting, he's got a natural talent in that which will keep him handy down the order, and get him just bowling bowling bowling.
He's clearly able to put revs and movement on the ball but it's astounding how little control he seems to have
good point, i'm trying to think of another frontline spinner asked to bat anywhere near the top 6 let alone opening the batting.
Could'nt even give a guess....Hick wasn't a front line spinner-just a part timer
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Ray Illingworth? DB Close? Sir Garfield Sobers? Richie Benaud?
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Tony Greig
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well Sobers bowled spin,seam and pace in his day as well as being a high class bat at around 18 years old so as comparisons go it's perhaps not an even contest :)
He is arguably(no argument if you ever go to Barbados) the greatest cricketer ever.
don't know where Benaud batted but I was thinking more modern day cricketers.
What I am trying to say is I can't think of another player being asked to the role England have asked Ali to do.
I agree with everyone else on the forum, he's a 7 or 8 in Tests.....
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Dilshan did a pretty good job of opening the batting and bowling spin.
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Saw Sir Gary hit 6 sixes in one over
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Dilshan did a pretty good job of opening the batting and bowling spin.
yes good one, Tests or one dayers thou?
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Saw Sir Gary hit 6 sixes in one over
some going that in the time he played 1964-68, somewhere round there?
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plus he was not the main spinner more of a part timer who filled in when needed
Ali is being asked to be the main spinner
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yes good one, Tests or one dayers thou?
Dilshan did it in all formats. He was a better batsman than Ali and his spin was more accurate. In England I guess he was used as a 2nd spinner to Murali/Herath, in asia a 3rd spinner. Still bowled as many overs as Ali I imagine.
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And did a better job than Ali, and don't forget he kept on occasion too!
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan-v-england-2015-16/content/story/936299.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan-v-england-2015-16/content/story/936299.html)
Why are they obsessing over this, of all things??? There was clear daylight between bat and ball...NO way he was out.
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if it's not out by the third umpire that's that.
I think what has annoyed the England lads is some reserve bloke not even playing doing the umpires job for him. Leave it to the umpire's to signal it's out or not out.
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if it's not out by the third umpire that's that.
I think what has annoyed the England lads is some reserve bloke not even playing doing the umpires job for him. Leave it to the umpire's to signal it's out or not out.
that kid is the next wicketkeeper/batsman for pak - rated highly... think he's going to get some chin music on his debut game ;)
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Dilshan did it in all formats. He was a better batsman than Ali and his spin was more accurate. In England I guess he was used as a 2nd spinner to Murali/Herath, in asia a 3rd spinner. Still bowled as many overs as Ali I imagine.
suspect Sanath Jayasuria is probably a better example of this.
Another one in modern cricket - Marlon Samuels.
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suspect Sanath Jayasuria is probably a better example of this.
Another one in modern cricket - Marlon Samuels.
Ravi Shastri started as a spinner too, I think he opened for a little bit. Mohammad Ajharuddin used to be a leggie as well if I recall correctly, although he never opened.
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some going that in the time he played 1964-68, somewhere round there?
It was 1968 in a championship match at Glamorgan Nottinghamshire need to quick runs the unlucky bowler was Malcom Nash
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Here's a random thought...why didn't stokes come out with an ultra light bat instead of his normal one (which I assume is at least 2 lb 10).. wouldn't have made a difference, but surely with a 2 lb 6 oz bat, it would be much, much easier for him?
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Here's a random thought...why didn't stokes come out with an ultra light bat instead of his normal one (which I assume is at least 2 lb 10).. wouldn't have made a difference, but surely with a 2 lb 6 oz bat, it would be much, much easier for him?
I had the same thought when watching the highlights. Presume he can only use NB bats and he doesn't have anything ridiculously light available.
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Rashid at least looks like he's trying to bat like its a test match unlike Ali. Samit also out performed Ali by a mile. ECB will keep Ali but tbh, he's been shown up and out classed by these two guys
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Patel is a very talented player but you have to play our best spinner if there is only one in the team-which is most of our games.
From what i see Samit has been the best spinner we have by a long way.
Which leaves selection after this tour in a bit of a mess,Ali has not bowled well for quite a while
I would take samit to SA and rashid also
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Ali, Rashid, samit.......
Will all this not be mute once ansari is fit??
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You'd very much hope so. Poor Zafar.
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Ansari is another level above imo, especially in terms of potential, is far younger as well at 23.
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Doh!!!!
Lbw was close, definitely should have had a stumping.
Cracking first over from Rashid. If only he bowled 6 like that more often!
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Doh!!!!
Lbw was close, definitely should have had a stumping.
Cracking first over from Rashid. If only he bowled 6 like that more often!
that stumping should have been easy
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Commentator having a mare.
Mentioning how Bairstow needs match practice to a leg spinner, it's hard if you just rock up having never kept to one(Athens then pointing out there at the same county and he's kept to Rashid loads)
Anderson then bowls Ali, and he says "andersons got the wicket, caught behind............."
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spinning a mile today
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spinning a mile today
Yes! Indeed, when Rashid puts it in the right places it looks unplayable.
Me thinks the 4th innings is gonna be a mare on here!
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England having a mare so far today, bowling has been really good but 4 chances/potential chances wasted off these two batsmen so far. Of all people you'd hope Bairstow would be able to pick Rashid!
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46 overs of spin and they haven't picked up a single wicket on this track. Pretty poor effort!
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this game has slipped away.missed chances and a spin attack which at best is average
cant say we have not had chances,Pakistan should be all out by now
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WE'RE CLOSE TO THEIR TAIL, LADS!
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Hmmmm - I feel we need to bowl them out for under 300 to stand a chance.
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YES YES YES
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one of our spinners got a wicket!!
:) :) :) :) :)
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Commentator having a mare.
Mentioning how Bairstow needs match practice to a leg spinner, it's hard if you just rock up having never kept to one(Athens then pointing out there at the same county and he's kept to Rashid loads)
Anderson then bowls Ali, and he says "andersons got the wicket, caught behind............."
Haha not to mention the fact he spent an hour and a half keeping to Warne and rashid earlier in the week as they ran through their repertoires. Can't get much better practice than that!!
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Big to get Sarfraz, was getting on my nerves there...
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King of the Losers James Anderson drops a dolly offered up by Shafiq. It's hard to shed the losers tag for a player like Anderson
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King of the Losers James Anderson drops a dolly offered up by Shafiq. It's hard to shed the losers tag for a player like Anderson
You are really struggling for something coherent there aren't you my trolly chum. Big drop though, Shafiq gone and only the tail to bowl at might have meabt a 250ish chase which would make a good finish I think.
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HUZZAH
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Cant even remember the last time he dropped one
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Yasir gifts his wicket to England's pie chucker Rashid.
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Yasir gifts his wicket to England's pie chucker Rashid.
Get a life you spanner!!
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Petehosk gifts his attention to Australia's abuse chucker 'Aussie in England'
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Just a couple of kind words of advice.
Doubt it will make any difference to the moronic posts he makes!
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King of the Losers James Anderson drops a dolly offered up by Shafiq. It's hard to shed the losers tag for a player like Anderson
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/04/5e9f4afce9473ee9ded0b19e8c54121a.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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King of the Losers James Anderson drops a dolly offered up by Shafiq. It's hard to shed the losers tag for a player like Anderson
He writes some rubbish when's he comes on here to slag England off but to call Jimmy a loser is a classic
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He writes some rubbish when's he comes on here to slag England off but to call Jimmy a loser is a classic
It's just a bit of banter, same as you guys throw at Aussie players. I'm sure plenty here would have called Nathan Lyon a pie chucker when he first made the Australian team.
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We really have bottled this haven't we, 281 and rising...
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Crikey Stuart
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284 to win, spinning pitch, Stokes can barely bat. Will be a good finish
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284 to win, spinning pitch, Stokes can barely bat. Will be a good finish
England to lose by 150 runs lol
Difficult pitch to read, rumours are the Pakistan experts reckoned it would get slower and lower. It may spin big but not quickly. Really don't fancy England to chase it.
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I'd actually like to see Moeen go aggressive here to try and get us off to a good start, think we need that if we're gonna have a decent chance of chasing it down.
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It's just a bit of banter, same as you guys throw at Aussie players. I'm sure plenty here would have called Nathan Lyon a pie chucker when he first made the Australian team.
Banter is fine but he goes too far and hasn't got a clue about diplomacy! For example his comment about Ali shaving his beard off? The beard is for his faith and religion...and these kinds of comments are rude and disrespectful! I am not religious but I realise that a lot of people are, and respect their attitude and beliefs There is nothing wrong with having a bit of a laugh but when the posts are consistently slagging the same players off, it just gets very tiresome and bitter!
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Sooooo, stemguard talk
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England to lose by 150 runs lol
You beat me to it! I was going to start a sweepstake on how many england will lose by :-[
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Personal choice, can't force someone to wear one
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Sooooo, stemguard talk
Snap - nasty one that. Surprised he isn't wearing Shrey's version of the guard!
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We really have bottled this haven't we, 281 and rising...
I think that missed stumping, dropped catches and other mistakes have lost of this Test!
We would have been chasing under 200 if we had of taken even some of the chances! But can't see us getting anywhere near this total on this wicket and batting 4th!
2-0 to Pakistan, which is a disappointment after the first Test!
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Bit late for putting a Shrey stem guard on now isn't it????
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looked painful :o
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England going at nearly 10 an over, they're gonna chase it down before Stumps :D
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Most captains would have opened with a spinner at one end.
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Moeen is just not geared up to open the batting, it's a specialist position.We have bowled some pies in this test, mo,samit and Rashid but I feel a bit sorry for Ali- up the order in Div 2 of the championship and trying to open in a test against proper bowling is the same game only in 'name'
we are gonna go down here I just hope it's with a real go at it.
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Aggressive positive England? OK!
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Moeen's not gonna die wondering is he!? David Warner 4th innings special coming up?
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David Warner 4th innings special coming up?
Warner certainly never done it on the sub continent ;)
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I don't think it will happen.....but if Ali were to hit a big and fast score, then some of the pundits will be shouting about Ali finally making his mark as an opener! >:(
We need to find 3 things from these Tests!
1. Someone to open the batting with Cook (NOT ALI!)
2. A quality wicket taking spinner - eg. Another Swann!
3. Improve catching!
We need to stay focused on these!
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Not a very big target but it is the 4 th day and both sides are really tested out by now. I think England can pull this off, Pakistan bowlers have not had a good run in this series.
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Apart from this test the fielding has been fine. Cant wait to see what Ansari can do
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Get to stumps withoiut losing a wicket, with Ali playing with some intent, we could be in a very strong position heading into tmro. I think this is the way he needs to play (Ali) i quick fire 50+ could break the back of this chase,
as im writing this hes just been given out, forgot all i said
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Back down to 8 you go Mo
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poor review that, surely Cook can spot hes stone dead there
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What a waste of a review, awful shot going back to that as well.
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Hey Ian, this is your time, we need you to stand up and......... Oh never mind.
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Just highlights how dreadful England's spinners bowled. Nearly a chance an over with their spinners
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Ball was on Bakerloo but played down Waterloo......Ian Ian Ian :/
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Going back to the spin conundrum - think Zafar Ansari is certainly better than these..BUT, how about a little gamble with Panesar. Tell him he's going to India - work with him intensely, and then just throw him in the middle.
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Going back to the spin conundrum - think Zafar Ansari is certainly better than these..BUT, how about a little gamble with Panesar. Tell him he's going to India - work with him intensely, and then just throw him in the middle.
Gotta see if any county is actually going to take him on for next season first I guess. Surely one of the smaller counties must consider it worth the risk?
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Get to stumps withoiut losing a wicket, with Ali playing with some intent, we could be in a very strong position heading into tmro. I think this is the way he needs to play (Ali) i quick fire 50+ could break the back of this chase,
as im writing this hes just been given out, forgot all i said
Panay on earth made you think Ali can a) survive b) score more than 20 runs c) even look like a top six batsmen
I really don't get why people are obsessed with Ali and his batting
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Gotta see if any county is actually going to take him on for next season first I guess. Surely one of the smaller counties must consider it worth the risk?
Perhaps that is why it hasn't worked so far. Surely its a bit like riding a bike - you never really forget how to bowl well. Its a mental thing more than anything else. Leapfrog the counties, motivate him by giving him the Eng shirt, and give him a test!
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Personally, although Monty is proabably (on his day) far better than rashid, moeen and Co hes now 33 or something and think we should start bringing up the youth spinners Eg. Mason Crane. Although obviously would be a baptism of fire but would be good for the long term prospects of england
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Not a great start, ball kept low a tad, but as they say in amateur cricket "get forwardddddddddd!"
I highly rate root, so not saying anything bad. But does the pressure of being no1 get to him? In the summer ashes, he failed twice in the test after being made number one, but returned to the runs once smith returned to the top.
Same here.
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Over by lunch this.......
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Oh dear 6/59 and well in to the tail.
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Just seen the wicket highlights
Why are we playing back on all accounts and bairstow what you doing with that sweep.
Shocking awful woeful
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I give up
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I'm going to try and take some positives out of this awful situation.
1. We have been a bit more competitive on this tour than the last UAE tour in my opinion.
2. Cook has most definitely regained his status as the premier opener in world cricket (again in my opinion). I can't think of any other current player you would rather have "batting for your life" his mental strength is unparalleled amongst modern cricketers in my eyes.
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Cook since finally being released from one day biffing has certainly found his 2010/11 ashes form again. I still think he was over protected when out of nick for so long and shouldn't capt but he isfor me the premier opening batsmen in the world. Most teams simply don't have proper opening batsmen and make do with one day biffers
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I'm going to try and take some positives out of this awful situation.
1. We have been a bit more competitive on this tour than the last UAE tour in my opinion.
2. Cook has most definitely regained his status as the premier opener in world cricket (again in my opinion). I can't think of any other current player you would rather have "batting for your life" his mental strength is unparalleled amongst modern cricketers in my eyes.
definatley, we actually were 2-3 overs from winning in abu dhabi, only just lost the last test, and had we taken a stumping-dunno is anyone else saw the highlights but that was a obviously googly-and have put down chances. We should be chasing 150 here not 280....
but England actually and no further forward, what do we do about an opener and a decent spinner? Rashid maybe, Ali back to number 8 and gawd knows about opening for SA, Hales hasn't had any time in the middle at all.....
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I'm not sure about the opening position to be honest. I'm not convinced Hales has the nous for it but I would love to be proven wrong. As far as the spinner goes Rashid has had a very mixed time of things in this series (and more bad than good!) but I'd like to see the ECB back him and give him an honest crack at it over an extended period of time, I always think leg spin in particular is a confidence game and Warne spoke highly of him the other day which (unless it was just for the cameras) must count for something. I think all that means you have to leave Ali out though, I don't think he'll score anymore runs at 8 than Rashid would.
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Losing Ansari was probably crucial.
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yeah. i'm afraid it's a bit harsh on Ali but if England are to move forward they have to pick who is the best spinner and who is likely to score more runs in the No 8 position.....
Opening is a specialist position(as I tell everyone down my club!) I would pick either pick Compton(who actually bats 3 for Middx but has opened) and maybe have Ballance on the tour as well(not popular on these boards I know). Adam Lyth also does he deserve another go?
Bell I would leave at home for SA and prob say goodbye, his mental appetite looks to have gone-a good but not great player.
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Losing Ansari was probably crucial.
looks that way, but if not picking a player who has never played a test and only just started his 1st class career it shows more about how much of a problem the spin position is?
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Is Ansari as an opener and 2nd spin option England's long term plan do you think? Or are they hoping to use him as a genuine spinner who can bat down at 8?
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looks that way, but if not picking a player who has never played a test and only just started his 1st class career it shows more about how much of a problem the spin position is?
Yep are spin options are week. The Anderson interview to cricinfo was pretty damning, the England spinners "have to learn quick" was his comment I think. They bemoan the lack of a Tredwell or Batty. Just goes to show how much we missed one steady spinner and I imagine Ansari would do this role better going forward.
Is Ansari as an opener and 2nd spin option England's long term plan do you think? Or are they hoping to use him as a genuine spinner who can bat down at 8?
Ansari can bat eight and move up the order as far as I'm concerned. The main job is to bowl some decent reliable spin. If you conclude spin won't play much part in SA then taking Ali and Ansari makes more sense than taking Rashid. I'm not against taking all 3 but only 1 will play in the test series assuming Stokes is fit. However, if Ansari is the future we need to get him in the England setup and playing well before we trot off to India again.
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He's a proper batsman in Championship cricket, dunno if the hype is justified but he's very highly rated and not just by Surrey fans.
You're thinking England could kill two birds with one stone and throw him in. Right now..that doesn't look the worst idea.
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Big call but why not open with Ansari in SA. Can't do any worse than Ali and leaves Ali to play shots down at 8. Playing 2 spinners for the next 12 months might not be a bad thing if they have to improve:-
Cook
Ansari
Root
Taylor
Bell
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Wood
Broad
Anderson
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And that's that. What on earth was Cook doing?
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Yet again another series show that England need a specialist opener someone with a similar mind set to Cook if there's no one around who hasn't had a go give Compton or lyth or any of the proper openers tried in recent times another opportunity and stick with them any one of them will be better than Ali.
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Selectors got it wrong! Can't turn up to the sub continent with 3 part time spinners. They averaged 60 runs per wicket!
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yeah. i'm afraid it's a bit harsh on Ali but if England are to move forward they have to pick who is the best spinner and who is likely to score more runs in the No 8 position.....
Opening is a specialist position(as I tell everyone down my club!) I would pick either pick Compton(who actually bats 3 for Middx but has opened) and maybe have Ballance on the tour as well(not popular on these boards I know). Adam Lyth also does he deserve another go?
Bell I would leave at home for SA and prob say goodbye, his mental appetite looks to have gone-a good but not great player.
Your right Carlo opening bats who know there job have a different mentality there Brian's work in a way only other openers understand.
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Yet again another series show that England need a specialist opener someone with a similar mind set to Cook if there's no one around who hasn't had a go give Compton or lyth or any of the proper openers tried in recent times another opportunity and stick with them any one of them will be better than Ali.
We've got to do that now I think.Ali opening was unfair on him and flawed from the start. England have played 6 bowlers in these tests we need to look backwards to solve it. i.e. we used to play 3 openers in the same side a few years back...
We have just got to have proper openers.
Everyone can't bat in the middle order it's not a club match,some sacrifices will have to be made before we can go forward..I reckon anyway.
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Selectors got it wrong! Can't turn up to the sub continent with 3 part time spinners. They averaged 60 runs per wicket!
Bit harsh on Rashid and Ansari. I'll give you Ali and to be honest bringing Samit wasn't the greatest idea. Given he only played in the 3rd test, surely Ansari would of been fit for that one?
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I do so love the press Ansari is getting - he's no better now than he was at the start of a tour in which, lets not forget, he took no part. He may one day be an option to play a JAdeja like role, but picking him now would be a gamble based on a hunch rather than an infomed choice.
For South Africa, we should make minimal changes, starting out:
Cook
Hales
Bell
Root
Bairstow
Taylor
Stokes
Rashid
Broad
Wood
Anderson
With one reserve batsman, Buttler, Plunkett, Footitt and either Ali or Ansari (personally I'd try and get one of them six weeks in India)
Next Summer, Bell is gone, and we should know more about several players:
Cook
Hales/Lyth
Ballance
Root
Taylor/Bairstow
Stokes
Bairstow/Buttler
Rashid/Ali/Ansari/Riley
Broad
Wood/Footitt/Plunkett/Finn
Anderson
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Rashid's got a lot of work to do on his bad balls at test level.
These should have been the best conditions for him to cause problems and for us to overlook his longhops - but after the first test, he doesn't seem to have threatened.
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Bit harsh on Rashid and Ansari. I'll give you Ali and to be honest bringing Samit wasn't the greatest idea. Given he only played in the 3rd test, surely Ansari would of been fit for that one?
On the one hand, very harsh on Rashid - he bowled well in the second innings of the first test, batted well a couple of times, and by the third test was getting it out nicely - remember, he had at least six good chances missed off his bowling in the last game, and bowled noticeably fewer full bungers than the finger spinners!
On the other - the problem with Dilly is always going to be that he will never be a good day one option...
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I do so love the press Ansari is getting - he's no better now than he was at the start of a tour in which, lets not forget, he took no part. He may one day be an option to play a JAdeja like role, but picking him now would be a gamble based on a hunch rather than an infomed choice.
For South Africa, we should make minimal changes, starting out:
Cook
Hales
Bell
Root
Bairstow
Taylor
Stokes
Rashid
Broad
Wood
Anderson
With one reserve batsman, Buttler, Plunkett, Footitt and either Ali or Ansari (personally I'd try and get one of them six weeks in India)
Next Summer, Bell is gone, and we should know more about several players:
Cook
Hales/Lyth
Ballance
Root
Taylor/Bairstow
Stokes
Bairstow/Buttler
Rashid/Ali/Ansari/Riley
Broad
Wood/Footitt/Plunkett/Finn
Anderson
I'm of a similar mindset to you as far as team selection goes but if Ansari has another decent season opening for Surrey is he in with a shout at 2? If you'd asked me 12 months ago I'd have probably tipped Alex Lees at Yorkshire to be alongside Cook but I don't feel like he's had as good a season this year, a good 2016 from him could see him in with a shout too though.
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Rashid's got a lot of work to do on his bad balls at test level.
These should have been the best conditions for him to cause problems and for us to overlook his longhops - but after the first test, he doesn't seem to have threatened.
he was easily the most threatening of the three, and had a huge number of chances missed.
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I'm of a similar mindset to you as far as team selection goes but if Ansari has another decent season opening for Surrey is he in with a shout at 2? If you'd asked me 12 months ago I'd have probably tipped Alex Lees at Yorkshire to be alongside Cook but I don't feel like he's had as good a season this year, a good 2016 from him could see him in with a shout too though.
I'm not sure Surrey see Ansari as an opener - he spent a lot of the season at six or thereabouts, moving up only at the end of the year - though obviously if he improved markedly he would be in with a shout (though that applies to anyone).
Lees...I think there are a lot of people who see him playing for England as a when rather than if situation. But I don't think he is quite ready yet - there are a few lessons left for him to learn before he is quite solid enough. I think Lyth will be considered again - the quality of that century against the Kiwis on a game track will mean that his form is monitored - and another guy they may look at is Mark Stoneman, who has improved steadily over the past three to four years.
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Our next new opener will be decided like this
(https://simpsonsscreenshots.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/mysterybox.png)
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Ansari isn't an opening bat really - he is doing the job at Surrey because he has the mental ability to bat for long periods of time. I think he should be more of a 6,7, or 8 personally.
I loathe the expression "not ready". I would pick Lees now and stick with him. He has a cricket brain and will work it out.
Gutted for Hales who I think would be brilliant, but has been messed around with.
At the moment our team looks a little short of batsmen who make a bowling attack loose sleep.
Cook, Mr X, Bell, Root, Taylor, Stokes, Bairstow, Ali etc won't strike fear into any team.
Cook, Hales, Root, KP, Taylor, Stokes, Buttler, Ali - should - but we will need to accept that Root will frequently be in early and KP isn't going to get picked. Plus the Eng management have ruined Hales and Jos somehow.
As for Bairstow - I haven't got him in the above, but I recognise that he should be based on the number of runs he has scored.
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Hales - now here we agree. Whether he is necessarily the answer, the fact is they've taken him as a specialist opener so play him.
Classic England - if you want a guy to debut, instead of getting him in there when he is fresh and in form, they make him wait weeks without a bat just so as the pressure is ramped right up and he starts stiff, tense and unsure of himself (cross reference - Lyth and RAshid not playing in the West Indies, much of Bairstow's treatment over the past few years and Taylor's frequent 12th man stints)
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More agreement. being 12th man is for a kid not someone who is about to play test cricket. Fine be with the team in the build up but as soon as it is apparent they aren't goign to play, go and get a game for your county, or if on tour a local club.
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just on BBC.
Bell wants to tour SA and England need his experience-Bayliss.
I can see where he is coming from, personally I think the openers spot is the one that needs sorting first. And not sure about keeper, does Bairstow get a decent run now? who is the better gloveman out of Butler and Bairstow? not much in it I don't think, Butler is prob the better keeper but well out of form with the bat
Nothing is clear cut so tricky decisions coming up.
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just on BBC.
Bell wants to tour SA and England need his experience-Bayliss.
I can see where he is coming from, personally I think the openers spot is the one that needs sorting first. And not sure about keeper, does Bairstow get a decent run now? who is the better gloveman out of Butler and Bairstow? not much in it I don't think, Butler is prob the better keeper but well out of form with the bat
Nothing is clear cut so tricky decisions coming up.
I would say the ODI series would go some way to deciding the keeping position as both bairstow and buttler will be likely to play
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More agreement. being 12th man is for a kid not someone who is about to play test cricket. Fine be with the team in the build up but as soon as it is apparent they aren't goign to play, go and get a game for your county, or if on tour a local club.
Couldn't agree more with this. 12th man duty for me should be either for someone who the selectors see playing in 12-24months time and want to give them the experience of being on a high profile tour and to let them know they are in the selectors thoughts for the future OR a gun fielder who's got little chance of making the current team as a batsman/bowler like Gary Pratt in the '05 Ashes (Chris Jordan would be good for this role at the moment!).
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Bob Willis is in the form of his life, on The Verdict
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Fully expecting the SA bowlers to bully our batsmen.
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This series yet again highlights how the ashes pitches over played this side.
Opening in test cricket is a specialist position, treat it as such. Ali opening is a disgrace and he simply isn't good enough to bat top,six anyway. If his spin isn't the best in England (it isn't as he bus wickets rather than be them out) then sack him off. Ansari, if he's the best spinner get him in, if not then don't wreck the kid, get him playing WI tears in Asia, learn from sessions with warne/Swann etc.
Bairstow isn't a test batsmen, not good enough. However, he's at least showed guts to try and play test cricket. Butler simply isn't good enough and needs dumping back to lvcc and only considered if he plays a full season and scores regular 50+ scores (batting properly not smashing pies around because the lvcc is poo). Hales isn't good enough, it's obvious and he'll fail.
England lack a middle order batsmen in the mould of hussey, coolingwood.. Someone capable of batting normally and brigadier blocking to,save a game. Stokes may have potential to be as good as flintoff but Freddie was only good enough to bat six for about 2 years.. Stokes isn't good enough, he's a 7/8 for now.
Bell, he's finished. Avg'd 20 since his last 100 in the WI, not good enough for a senior player. Simple as that.
Overall the team is in a mess just as much as it was 12 months ago, only we had a doctored win at the ashes against a poor aus side
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Bob Willis is in the form of his life, on The Verdict
Tore apart Rashid! least someone said it.
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Great article showing how good Alastair Cook is in Asia... http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/937409.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/937409.html)
A few extracts:
"His aggregate of 2252 is the highest in Asia, almost 200 runs better than the next best"
"...the first non-Asian batsman to face 5000-plus deliveries in the continent."
"In 21 Tests in Asia, Cook's average is 60.86, which is among the best for non-Asian batsmen who have scored 1000-plus runs in the continent. His average outside Asia is 44.54 in 101 Tests, which is similar to his home average of 43.51 in 68 matches..."
"Cook's century rate in Asia is even better than those of Kumar Sangakkara and Sachin Tendulkar, which indicates how comfortably he has handled these conditions."
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All hail Captain Cook. I'm so glad he's shut up all the people who were calling for his head in the last couple of years. Now if England can get the selection policy right and pull a spinner out of somewhere we'll be golden.
No real shame in losing to Pakistan in the UAE where they have looked invincible, we went toe to toe with them and were found lacking in two sessions out of 44 played with a very young side. The future is brighter than some of the doom and gloom on here and in the general media.
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New ICC rankings, 1. SPD Smith (910); 2. AB de Villiers (890); 3. JE Root (886).
Rankings never reflect the real story, we all know the great man ABDV is the best batsmen in the world.
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So, the ODI series. Anyone else excited? Biggest problem I guess is the seamers with Wood out, so I guess it'll probably be Plunkett, Willey and one of Woakes or Jordan, sigh. Would love it if Topley gets a go though.
Feel like this is where Roy and Hales score a truckload of runs as well.
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All hail Captain Cook. I'm so glad he's shut up all the people who were calling for his head in the last couple of years. Now if England can get the selection policy right and pull a spinner out of somewhere we'll be golden.
No real shame in losing to Pakistan in the UAE where they have looked invincible, we went toe to toe with them and were found lacking in two sessions out of 44 played with a very young side. The future is brighter than some of the doom and gloom on here and in the general media.
Sorry - this is tosh, Cook has responsibility for some of the atrocious selections, allowing Moeen to open the batting with him etc. if he had scored at .2 of a run per over faster we would have won the first test. Etc
Sorry as Captain he is responsible.
I could rant at this further - he claimed England were still in "transition" well they have been in transition for the whole of his captaincy, which has been lousy.
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So, the ODI series. Anyone else excited? Biggest problem I guess is the seamers with Wood out, so I guess it'll probably be Plunkett, Willey and one of Woakes or Jordan, sigh. Would love it if Topley gets a go though.
Feel like this is where Roy and Halesy score a truckload of runs as well.
I'm hoping we see Roy convert the good starts he's been getting into some big scores, he looks a real talent.
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I can see where he is coming from, personally I think the openers spot is the one that needs sorting first. And not sure about keeper, does Bairstow get a decent run now? who is the better gloveman out of Butler and Bairstow? not much in it I don't think, Butler is prob the better keeper but well out of form with the bat
A year ago there was probably nothing between them as keepers, but Buttler has spent considerably more time actually keeping and has kicked on further than JB to this stage (though I thought, the second easier stumping aside that JB had a decent match given his lack of recent practice in Sharjah) but there is a lot between them as batsmen - Buttler has the edge in the inventive one day stuff, though JB is an awesome power hitter when needed - but you would struggle to see him playing long test match innings in the same way (he has only four first class tons to JB's 16) and has never set a game up in the way Bairstow has against South Africa and Australia. Its a question of what you prefer, I guess...
The questions remain:
1. does Bairstow quite have what it takes as an out and out batsman to select both and...
2. is Buttler "on a promise" from management. If so...
3. is Bairstow about to get royally shafted?
I think in answer:
1. Jury is out - given the next 12 months, series against South Africa away and then Sri Lanka and Pakistan at home are a perfect proving ground for him. He certainly has a better technique against pace (and a better one than Taylor for that matter)
2. You'd think so from the way this was handled.
3. Possible, isn't it.
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I think Buttler was given 9 tests to score some runs and failed. Bairstow deserves the same as a keeper batsman.
Not convinced either of them are technically tight enough for test cricket. However, Bairstow does at least have some decent scores against SA/Aus (the benchmakr imho) and looks further down the road as a batsman who can make scores.
Keeping is irrelevant, if it was neither would be playing as a keeper.
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I reckon myself although let's be honest most of us are having a right guess(and that's what the selectors are doing as well!)
2 and 3 above....yes possibly but I don't think so.If Butler finds form in the one dayers maybe he comes back in but right at this moment JB is the better bat and JButler the better keeper.I think JB will be better on quick tracks and could well get runs in SA.
It's not actually a new problem....look back at some point Prior's keeping was village but his batting was pretty consistent.He was eventually one of our best bats in the end IMO, such a valuable player for us and his keeping improved all the way-Bruch French seemed to help a huge amount.
Just my gut feeling long term is Butler has better hands and Bairstow is a tall lad for a keeper. Butler I think is more natural.
They will prob both go to South Africa and we could well be in the same position in six months time!
That's what being an England fan is all about! :)
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Sorry - this is tosh, Cook has responsibility for some of the atrocious selections, allowing Moeen to open the batting with him etc. if he had scored at .2 of a run per over faster we would have won the first test. Etc
Sorry as Captain he is responsible.
I could rant at this further - he claimed England were still in "transition" well they have been in transition for the whole of his captaincy, which has been lousy.
How much of a say does he get on selection? He's so reluctant to bowl his spinners I'd suggest he doesn't get much of a say so. Your 0.2 of a run argument is utterly ridiculous, he single handedly took us past the 550 odd runs to put us into the position of winning the game. If we had a spinner that could hold up an end we would have won the game and probably the whole series. Runs just were not the issue, so you could say that by having Moeen to open he increased his bowling options, wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference if Hales or whoever had opened with him.
Under his captaincy, England have won two Ashes series and an away series in India, something which the number one ranked side in the world is making look very difficult currently. This team will remain in transition until we find a spinner and an opener good enough for Test cricket. He can hardly be blamed for the lack of talent English cricket is producing!
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http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/nov/06/pakistan-series-win-good-thing-england (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/nov/06/pakistan-series-win-good-thing-england)
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How much of a say does he get on selection? He's so reluctant to bowl his spinners I'd suggest he doesn't get much of a say so. Your 0.2 of a run argument is utterly ridiculous, he single handedly took us past the 550 odd runs to put us into the position of winning the game. If we had a spinner that could hold up an end we would have won the game and probably the whole series. Runs just were not the issue, so you could say that by having Moeen to open he increased his bowling options, wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference if Hales or whoever had opened with him.
Under his captaincy, England have won two Ashes series and an away series in India, something which the number one ranked side in the world is making look very difficult currently. This team will remain in transition until we find a spinner and an opener good enough for Test cricket. He can hardly be blamed for the lack of talent English cricket is producing!
Said number 1 ranked side are currently only 2 days into a 4 Test series, so it isn't all doom and gloom...
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England warm up vs Hong Kong this morning.
342 for 8 of 50
Hales 64
Roy 40
Root 39
Morgan 19
Taylor 20
Buttler 38
Ali 71
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Fancy us to do well in the one day matches and the coAch did say there were places up for grabs in the test team
Hardly gets mentioned anymore but wonder if Morgan will only ever be a one day player and never add to his test caps?
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Morgans issue with the short ball will stop him adding to his test caps.
And he hasn't been banging the door down with weight of championship runs either. He's a very good one day player, but I don't think he has the temprement for the longer form of the game.
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Pretty sure his temperament is fine. But, as you pointed out his technique isn't up to it.
Shame as I felt he should have been a success. Another fail from the ecb batting coaches.
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Maybe temprament wasn't the right word.
Morgan took a break from championship cricket to prepare for an ODI series. Admitedly it worked, but to me that said he has given up on making the Test side. With spots up for grabs on the UAE tour O would have thought those wanting a place would've got as muxh crixjet under their belts as possible.
Whatever the reason it's a shame, I like Morgan as a player, and he is maybe the closest we have that matches 'you know who' in terms of flare.
Wait, that could be it! People might actually pay to see him bat, the ECB wouldn't want that now, would they...
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Quite right Morgs took a break from a poor domestic season but then came back into the internationals and played quite brilliantly...
This guy has serious talent and def agree he has the x factor,not a great deal of these players around for us
I think its a real shame his test career has stopped.
He could have been,maybe still could be,a perfect number 6.
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Morgan is a 2020/odi player, simply not up to test match cricket. However, given the way pitches and bowling is going there is no reason he can't as there are a fair few (moeen/buttler) innthenworl who aren't test players and at least Morgan has shown more mental ability.
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Warm up more or less over. Hk 179 for 9, Wiley four and Rashid/root two each with the wickets.
Big win for abit of confidence. Nice to see us destroy a minnow, unlike the odi side we sent to the wc
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(https://i.imgur.com/LvnNEeK.jpg)
I quite liked it when he was 5.
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Reckon that new ballance will release a root66 or r66 range in 2017 too.
Not that root is there biggest player(he and smith near the top) but having only two ranges is limiting, they need a few more out there.
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Reckon that new ballance will release a root66 or r66 range in 2017 too.
Not that root is there biggest player(he and smith near the top) but having only two ranges is limiting, they need a few more out there.
Just wait till the range is released here in December, I envisage junior bats flying out of the shop and it all starts to kick off
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Don't think having only two ranges will bother them too much, makes distribution and retail stocking nice and easy plus keeps them very recognisable which is the main point after all - brand recognition plus 'I want root/stokes/smith/etc's bat' sales.
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Curtley Ambrose used an NB yesterday, much bigger star then either of them!