Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Latest Matches => Topic started by: petehosk on October 30, 2016, 10:49:35 PM
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Think we had better start the next topic as the Indian Tests start so quickly! So thought I would continue where the Bangladesh topic ended...
Ballance is a good player. No-one gets an average of 60-70 after three of four series without knowing a bit about Batting. He just needs a break, mentally looks shot. Can't seem to buy a run.
Was very disappointed with Duckett, heard lots of good things about him. That was until today when he actually attacked the bowlers. I feel he could be decent given another year or two. Give him the India and next summer (unless he becomes hapless in India).
I think Hameed could do a job at 3, move Root back to 4. Or, Bairstow/Ali 4, Hameed 5, Stokes 6, Bairstow/Ali 7.
No to KP and no to Bell. May as well build for the future, already got one oldie return in Batty. Shouldn't have too many in my eyes.
Really disappointed that Hameed only got a warm-up match and no proper Test match. It would have been good to see how he did against Bangladesh, as India should prove to be a tougher test!!
Against India I can see Hameed being played a little further down the order?
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Well....... :)
As has been mentioned by others if he does play it could be at 4.....it seems the only way in.the whole situation is not ideal, I think we have more selection issues than we started with.
It's difficult to rationalise when England are likely to do something opposite. ie so we still need a 'tradional opener' batting 2?
England don't think so, I think we do. hameed and cook together? Yes.....cook and a strokeplayer? Yes that's what England want.
If hameed did get in and batted 4 it's not the end of the world, it's happened before, does he fit balances more attritional style? Yes he does.....
So maybe England are thinking that they need that style at 4. Apart from Cook everyone else gets on with it.
I actually think someone suggested hameed(if he plays) goes 3 and root back to 4. It's not the worst idea is it? Root will score whether it's 3 or 4 it doesn't matter.
More concerns about our bowling, Broad needs to stay fit and Anderson we don't know. Spinners? Hmmm....
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FYI Bell has played 8 Tests in India, averaging 27.
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I think that this tour should be about managing expectations.
It could well be 5-0 - India in their conditions will be tough.
So, can England make all matches go to a fifth day?
Can England go into their next assignment with doubts over one batting place?
Can a spinner land the ball in the same place 6 times an over for at least 25% of their overs/
Can they nick a match?
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I think that this tour should be about managing expectations.
It could well be 5-0 - India in their conditions will be tough.
So, can England make all matches go to a fifth day?
Can England go into their next assignment with doubts over one batting place?
Can a spinner land the ball in the same place 6 times an over for at least 25% of their overs/
Can they nick a match?
if your looking for positives, it does reverse a bit out there for our bowlers. I dot think we will lose 5-0 but it's going to be very very hard to get close to a draw I think
you do wonder if there is a case for picking our BEST bowlers regardless of conditions.....
so......how many of our spinners are our best bowlers? yes it's a bit off the wall but do we pick an extra seamer?
I think our spinners are going to get slapped out there
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you do wonder if there is a case for picking our BEST bowlers regardless of conditions.....
so......how many of our spinners are our best bowlers?
This is absolutely what we should do, I posted before the Bangladesh series we should at our best 3 or 4 quicks and
2 spinners max. We should stick to our strengths, playing 2nd rate spinners plays into Bangladesh and India's hands. They treat them as fodder and up their run rate, meaning we need to chase more runs. The series in the UAE was a lesson the England management never learnt from.
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5-0 England. Don't worry lads, we got this.
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I think that this tour should be about managing expectations.
It could well be 5-0 - India in their conditions will be tough.
So, can England make all matches go to a fifth day?
Can England go into their next assignment with doubts over one batting place?
Can a spinner land the ball in the same place 6 times an over for at least 25% of their overs/
Can they nick a match?
I think, unfortunately, you know the answers to those questions already ;)
I reckon if England come out of the India tour any better than 5-0 we've done well. It's going to be a big ask to draw a Test over there against Ashwin and Jadeja.
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I think we should get over the 'ifs', 'buts' and who comes back in and going back to past players. We are in the here & now, and we have a pool of say 16 bodies to pick from, mostly inexperienced. It's not like going to India with KP, Freddy, Swann and Monty I'm afraid, so we have to cut our cloth to suit.
Lets move forward. Balance has been found wanting, but is hardly experienced in the pressure-cooker of test cricket so stick another youngster in to replace him. Duckett, Hameed and Ansari will not get any better unless they play.
What matters is how they are managed and coached as newcomers to the side. Explain to them the challenge ahead, what your realistic expectations are for them in the matches, pair them up with experienced players in training and travelling and let them get on with it.
This will be an awesome experience that they will sink or swim from and everyone should be realistic about their chances. Win or lose, we have a young squad to move forward with and should be excited.
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In my opinion the mainstream media have to give these players a bit of a break! All you heard during Duckett's innings was how he would be lambasted in the media if he got out playing a switch hit at the start of the innings in a test mate.
We want players to go out and express themselves, why do we then hammer them if they get out playing something these ex pro's class as a non regulation shot.
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In my opinion the mainstream media have to give these players a bit of a break! All you heard during Duckett's innings was how he would be lambasted in the media if he got out playing a switch hit at the start of the innings in a test mate.
We want players to go out and express themselves, why do we then hammer them if they get out playing something these ex pro's class as a non regulation shot.
yep it would have been an interesting reaction if Duckett had got out playing one of those reverses 2nd over? probably got crucified! instead he is being hailed as brave and bold and now nailed on for the 1st test.
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yep it would have been an interesting reaction if Duckett had got out playing one of those reverses 2nd over? probably got crucified! instead he is being hailed as brave and bold and now nailed on for the 1st test.
tradition English media yes you are spot on. However Bayliss is different, we might not like the 'aussie way' sometimes but he's been great for us, England are opening their minds in one days and tests.....
His influence has been fantastic. And no one really cares what the toffs in the Telegraph write......cricket needs to get to inspire people.
Sorry im ranting :)
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I really don't think we'll do that badly in India. That team that was nearly the best in the world a few months ago hasn't disappeared overnight- it certainly won't be 5-0. We just need top order batsmen to score runs. Cook had a great tour of India last time around.
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Just read that Michael Vaughn has written in the telegraph that England should call Sam billings, now for me it's not a bad call I just don't think it's the right time!! We have a squad that can win in India! It just needs the correct selection (hammeed at 2, duckett at 4) however I'm not sure that will happen. I will be cheering on and supporting whoever walks out for the first test with the 3 lions in their chest no matter who that is!!
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Interesting this from Duckett on twitter - getting very mixed reaction!
https://twitter.com/BenDuckett1/status/793019387837939713
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Good on him
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Good lad.
The alluminati on twitter all having a go want to remove the sticks from there behinds.!
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Just read that Michael Vaughn has written in the telegraph that England should call Sam billings, now for me it's not a bad call I just don't think it's the right time!! We have a squad that can win in India! It just needs the correct selection (hammeed at 2, duckett at 4) however I'm not sure that will happen. I will be cheering on and supporting whoever walks out for the first test with the 3 lions in their chest no matter who that is!!
Is Billings represented by whatever agency Vaughan is involved with? Ah.
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Interesting this from Duckett on twitter - getting very mixed reaction!
https://twitter.com/BenDuckett1/status/793019387837939713
One guy said a few more Ben's should be selected for India - I'm available ;)
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Is Billings represented by whatever agency Vaughan is involved with? Ah.
Well said.Vaughan has an agenda for everything he writes or says in the media.
Yes yes i cried(with joy) in 2005 when the bails were removed at the Oval.
But...
2005 in the past
And....what captain would not give for the attack we had then?
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One guy said a few more Ben's should be selected for India - I'm available ;)
Keep practising ! :)
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FYI Bell has played 8 Tests in India, averaging 27.
Doesn't mean anything then and now no all that
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One guy said a few more Ben's should be selected for India - I'm available ;)
It didn't take Piers Morgan long to shove his tongue up Duckett's starfish either, irritatingly he replied.
Fair play to Duckett for backing himself, you just hope it doesn't come back to bit him
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Doesn't mean anything then and now no all that
What?
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I really don't think we'll do that badly in India. That team that was nearly the best in the world a few months ago hasn't disappeared overnight- it certainly won't be 5-0. We just need top order batsmen to score runs. Cook had a great tour of India last time around.
Are you sure? I'm not saying it is going to be 5-0 but 3-0 or 4-0 seem pretty likely. I don't think Kohli and Rahane et al are that worried about our spinners and I think Mr. Ashwin and his buddies are licking their lips at bowling to our boys. I hope that the English lads prove me wrong but I really fear the worst :(
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Don't think India's batting line up is as good as people think. NZ pushed them all the way and on a number of occasions they were in trouble.
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we do need Anderson thou, I know some on here think he is only good on green seamers but he has bowled well last time out there and in UAE. basically he is class and that's the commodity we are short of.
We will need Broad fit and firing too......
batting wise is tricky now.
Of the choices available Balance out of the firing line and I think England will gamble on Butler at number 7 maybe...
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Don't think India's batting line up is as good as people think. NZ pushed them all the way and on a number of occasions they were in trouble.
I'd rather have Jeetan Patel than any of our spinners to be fair.
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I'd rather have Jeetan Patel than any of our spinners to be fair.
any day of the week and I think he's 38 or 39 now....
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...And he was milked by India.
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From an Indian supporter:
Eng will do better than most predict here as long as your seamers bowl well, spinners wise Ali might be decent not sure about others.
Big challenge for Eng batsmen would be Ashwin but I think as long as they play sensibly it should be ok . NZ could have given Indian bowlers trouble had Williamson been in better form and they had someone to replace Guptill & Taylor.
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...And he was milked by India.
correct.... but we don't care because...........................
we are hitting them with pace
:) bring it on.
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...And he was milked by India.
That was my point, I maybe didn't make it very clear haha
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I personally can't wait to see Moeen tear the Indians a new one, just like he did in the series in England:
MM Ali (ENG)
123.4 Overs
16 Maidens
437 Runs
19 Wickets @ 23.00 a piece
If he did that on English green seamers, imagine the havoc he'll wreak on a Rajkot dustbowl! ;) :D
P.S: Before anyone starts, I'm fully aware most of these were because they were trying to smash him into the middle of next week every time he came on to bowl....
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They might try that again to be fair....
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They might try that again to be fair....
I suspect that the Indian batsmen may treat Ali with a little more respect this time.
However, I also suspect that they will be looking to smash the rest of the spinners around!
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I can't see Ali getting the bounce he did in that series, from memory a lot of his wickets were caught in the deep. India will play him much better on their pitches. Play 4 quicks (Broad, stokes, woakes,ball ) and one spinner (Ali or Batty) and try to stay in the game.
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I think spirit of the team and motivation will be a big factor. Of course the skills are important but having lost the last test and mediocre performance by the inexperienced players against an ordinary test team can have a huge effect on confidence and ultimately the outcome of the game. How quickly the first time travelers come out of it and play confidently will be crucial. Its a long 5 test series, if England gets crushed in the beginning, then i dont see any favorable results for England, not even a draw....
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From an Indian supporter:
Eng will do better than most predict here as long as your seamers bowl well, spinners wise Ali might be decent not sure about others.
Big challenge for Eng batsmen would be Ashwin but I think as long as they play sensibly it should be ok . NZ could have given Indian bowlers trouble had Williamson been in better form and they had someone to replace Guptill & Taylor.
Ashwin seems a totally different bowler from the one who went missing against us back in 2012. In 2012 Ashwin bowled too many variations and Dhoni's negative captaincy nullified Ashwin.
Kohli's aggressive in everything he does and that's rubbed off on Ashwin.
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For sure going to watch all 5 days of the test match at Mumbai when England come visiting.. please see me in TV :D
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Ashwin seems a totally different bowler from the one who went missing against us back in 2012. In 2012 Ashwin bowled too many variations and Dhoni's negative captaincy nullified Ashwin.
Kohli's aggressive in everything he does and that's rubbed off on Ashwin.
Or, spinners get better with age.
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Few injuries for the Indians, no rohit, rahul or dhawan.
Likely only 2 lefty's in their line up
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Few injuries for the Indians, no rohit, rahul or dhawan.
Likely only 2 lefty's in their line up
I wonder if that might influence England to pick 2 spinners both away from the bat....
putting Rashid and Ansari ahead of batty. Ali is going to play anyway he is about as good as we have and cant do without his runs....
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I'd still hope they play Batty to start off with
If anyone wants to reminisce about the last time we were in India then this is perfect viewing with it only being a week away http://bit.ly/2faoBlz (http://bit.ly/2faoBlz)
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I can't see Ali getting the bounce he did in that series, from memory a lot of his wickets were caught in the deep. India will play him much better on their pitches. Play 4 quicks (Broad, stokes, woakes,ball ) and one spinner (Ali or Batty) and try to stay in the game.
With Ali now batting at no.5 you could have him in as a batsman who bowls!
With Stokes being a genuine all rounder who bats at 6, the side is much easier to balance. We can have plenty of bowling options, without having to weaken the batting.
I'd like to see a lineup along the lines of:
Cook*
Hameed
Root
Duckett
Ali
Stokes
Bairstow+
Woakes
Ansari/Batty
Broad
Ball
Admittedly, this is very unlikely to happen though...
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Don't worry lads India have recalled the woeful Ishant Sharma and retained the has been Gautam Gambhir. We can't lose
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Few injuries for the Indians, no rohit, rahul or dhawan.
Likely only 2 lefty's in their line up
Rahul will be a big loss. Big opportunity for Karun Nair to shine and have a permanent spot. Very talented bloke...
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Just seen that the BCCI is being investigated. Therefore they are unable to pay for the hotel/travel costs of the England Team (Customary that hosts pay for such things). Indian press reporting that England might pull out.
Doubt it will happen. But, if I were Bayliss, I'd be tempted to suggest we cover the bill... if we get Ashwin in return. :D
http://www.skysports.com/share/10643911 (http://www.skysports.com/share/10643911)
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Just seen that the BCCI is being investigated. Therefore they are unable to pay for the hotel/travel costs of the England Team (Customary that hosts pay for such things). Indian press reporting that England might pull out.
Doubt it will happen. But, if I were Bayliss, I'd be tempted to suggest we cover the bill... if we get Ashwin in return. :D
England wont pull out but it's a bit of an unusual situation...sounds like England are caught in Indian political muscle flexing.
handy if we could claim a game thou as no one has any cash to pay the taxi to the ground :)
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my Indian supporting mate just texted me to say the 2017 IPL is certain to be cancelled by the Supreme Court of India and the 3 judges who issued the Lohda report.
if that was to be the case.......holy cow that would send shockwaves thru cricket..... :o
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Pretty sure that the 2017 IPL tv rights are already set so it can't be cancelled as lots of vendors have already paid such as sky sports in U.K.
This Lodhra report wants the BCCI president to step down...he's a very rich chap and won't
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Pretty sure that the 2017 IPL tv rights are already set so it can't be cancelled as lots of vendors have already paid such as sky sports in U.K.
This Lodhra report wants the BCCI president to step down...he's a very rich chap and won't
its trying to wipe out the corruption thru the BCCI and might take the whole lot with it is my info.
I think everyone has known for years it's corrupt
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Anyone think of a nation with the right stadiums & infrastructure to take over if the ipl goes tits up.. ;)
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Anyone think of a nation with the right stadiums & infrastructure to take over if the ipl goes tits up.. ;)
Zimbabwe? :D
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IPL is pretty much irreplaceable. No other country has 10-12 venues with capacities ranging from 40,000 up to 85,000 seats.
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Jimmy A ok for the second test which is great news if you support England!
The wickets might not be ideal but we need his quality and experience...
Wonder if we will go with four seamers and just two spinners for most of the series.
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Anyone think of a nation with the right stadiums & infrastructure to take over if the ipl goes tits up.. ;)
Hope you don't mean England? Stadium capacity must be the poorest out of all the nations. Can't imagine kohli or ab raring at the chance of playing in front of 7000 people
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Jimmy A ok for the second test which is great news if you support England!
The wickets might not be ideal but we need his quality and experience...
Wonder if we will go with four seamers and just two spinners for most of the series.
Think it's a risk to use Anderson at all TBH. Only yesterday Steyn broke his shoulder after returning from a separate shoulder injury. Save Anderson for the next home summer, which will probably be the last for Anderson anyway
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Hope you don't mean England? Stadium capacity must be the poorest out of all the nations. Can't imagine kohli or ab raring at the chance of playing in front of 7000 people
You only just get that at Sussex!
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You mean no one wants to see the Manchester Indians?
What about the Royal Challengers Brighton (& Hove)?
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You mean no one wants to see the Manchester Indians?
What about
Royal Challengers Brighton (& Hove)?
You forgot the chennai super birmingham bears
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also the row over expenses continues as the BCCI cannot pay the pilot to transfer the England team around the venues and have made made a formal request one of our players, thought to be Adil Rashid flys the plane.
the ECB have rejected this request saying they cannot possibly predict where they would land.
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also the row over expenses continues as the BCCI cannot pay the pilot to transfer the England team around the venues and have made made a formal request one of our players, thought to be Adil Rashid flys the plane.
the ECB have rejected this request saying they cannot possibly predict where they would land.
Well it won't be in line with the runway
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also the row over expenses continues as the BCCI cannot pay the pilot to transfer the England team around the venues and have made made a formal request one of our players, thought to be Adil Rashid flys the plane.
the ECB have rejected this request saying they cannot possibly predict where they would land.
Com'on, Adil at least lands most of the deliveries when compared to Imran Tahir (in tests)
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Jimmy A ok for the second test which is great news if you support England!
The wickets might not be ideal but we need his quality and experience...
Wonder if we will go with four seamers and just two spinners for most of the series.
I would rest Anderson, and go with Woakes, Ball, Adil, Moeen, Ansari, Stokes. Call Jimmy, if the quicks fail.
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having seen Steyn break down in the SA match with a shoulder problem, im sure England will be making sure Jimmy is def 100 per cent fit before clearing him to play
bowlers his age could be just one injury away from retirement
as for Imran Tahir, he does bowl some buffet stuff...BUT has the uncanny habit of picking up hatfuls of wickets sometimes!!! as his wicket celebrations are fantastically silly
:) :)
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Looks like Sam Billings has joined up with the squad, nothing 100% official but it looks like him in this picture they've tweeted with the caption 'Who's hiding behind the medicine ball?'...
https://twitter.com/englandcricket/status/795578134074519552
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cwp2FgGXEAQ3hvN.jpg)
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That will be Batty
Here's the pitch two days away from the game. I'm no expert but it's gonna bloody turn
(https://i.reddituploads.com/05eddb06fe684186b7dd28f96a75b4f1?fit=max&h=1536&w=1536&s=3ab2abf85c199ad29631c9cecf20a2a1)
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And here was me thinking they would produce a green top :D.
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That'll be gone by Wednesday, by magic
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Never seen a pitch in Rajkot with so many cracks on it before the match has even started...
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it shoud'nt matter that much but I sure hope we win the toss.
:)
NZ got stuffed out there and lost all the tosses
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Get the seamers on to hit those cracks! This could be over within 3 days!
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cwp2FgGXEAQ3hvN.jpg)
What's Woakes looking at here... (Far right)
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Probably that ripped little calf!
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Hameed to open, duckett at 4. Like that. Still think the selectors limited their options and were too hasty picking the India side, but that's a good kobe. Sounds like hameed was majorly impressing in the nets.
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They are only 1 Test too late! They should have done this in Bangladesh, rather than throwing him in against India, but better late than never!
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Finally hammeed gets a go! Hope the lad does well and it already looks a more balanced side with duckett at 4
Although cook must have had more opening partners than anyone else in world cricket!!!
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Finally hammeed gets a go! Hope the lad does well and it already looks a more balanced side with duckett at 4
Although cook must have had more opening partners than anyone else in world cricket!!!
I reckon you're right but David Warners had quite a few as well
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Cook hinting he will stand down as captain after this series, bit of a surprise, thought he'd stay until the Ashes
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Cook may stay Captain until the Ashes. He has only hinted that he will be handing it back but hasn't said when. Could be after India or could be after next Ashes, or any time in between.
Root to take over?
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I think the press have got 2 and 2 and made 5.
Cook will skipper at home as well i think next year
Great news about hameed, the team looks bettet with duckett in for ballance at 4
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Would be nice if England D's middle order could have the chance to settle down before Root has to take on the captaincy. If he takes time to adjust to it (I.e. dip in form) then we really are screwed
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Would be nice if England D's middle order could have the chance to settle down before Root has to take on the captaincy. If he takes time to adjust to it (I.e. dip in form) then we really are screwed
exactly right. I think that's what Cook will want to plan. we have had quite a few changes in recent years after a virtually unmoveable batting order of strauss,cook,trott,kp,bell
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I think the press have got 2 and 2 and made 5.
Cook will skipper at home as well i think next year
Great news about hameed, the team looks bettet with duckett in for ballance at 4
All he said was it could be two months, or a year. He never really said much more than the obvious.
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All he said was it could be two months, or a year. He never really said much more than the obvious.
indeed....
im not sure joe root is a bolt on successor either......
what does everyone think? im not convinced he will be captain after Cook.
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indeed....
im not sure joe root is a bolt on successor either......
what does everyone think? im not convinced he will be captain after Cook.
I do think itll will be root, with stokes as V/C
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BCCI threatening to cancel the Test match unless the judges investigating them tell them they are great and wonderful and carry on with the corruption
The BCCI is the same organisation ECB could not wait to jump into bed with and cut up the financial pie with the Aussies, leaving the rest of world cricket......to feed on the scraps and forget about spreading the worldwide game.
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We should just come home - we're having to pay for it all anyway!
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i am so glad they have given Hameed a go.. as others have said it's only a few tests late!
i also wonder whether they might think about a slight jiggle in the middle because even with Duckett moving to 4 instead of Ballance we are still 3 lefties in a row.
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easy way round that would be shift barrstow up which wouldnt be too bad if we've skittled india and hes not had much to do behind the stumps
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Early night tonight. Alarm set for 3:30am
Make test cricket great again
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Don't think the order of left/right handers makes much difference unless you're prepared to change the order on the fly to avoid having two of the same in together, which we obviously won't. Just good that not everyone is left handed.
Terrible timing for this test - I'm on nights, no way am I gonna be able to watch the whole day without a serious lack of sleep. Starts at 6am each day right? Edit: oh snap it starts at 4am, what am I gonna do now ha.
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3.30 am I thought.
Do we actually know the team?. It's hameed for ballance yes but the bowlers are not announced to my knowledge.
Think we go 3 seamers and batty, Ali and.........ansari over Rashid I guess.
I would play 2 spinners thou with 4 seamers. Batty and Ali...
Jake ball plays for me instead of Finn from the Bangladesh test
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Early night tonight. Alarm set for 3:30am
Make test cricket great again
Well said, that man.
I suddenly feel the urge to build a wall... and get Piers Morgan to pay for it?
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Bugger! In my head this was gonna start 5am like in Bangladesh.
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Cookie won the toss and we are batting
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Cracking start to the tour that, verdict on sky seems to be that it's a good track. 3/3 it is, Ansari and Rash both play. Outrageous batting lineup, early chance to show what he's made of for Hameed too. Few key Indian players with poor records against England, say it quietly but if we can keep them quiet we've got a damn good chance.
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Dropped Cook already, lol
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Cracking first over that, what a drop though. I'd be absolutely crapping myself if I dropped Cook 3rd ball of a test!
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Hameed with some gorgeous shots so far
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Dumbfounded to why Cook didn't review, thats going miles down leg
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Hameed showing wisdom beyond his years there, saving the reviews for himself.
"Dunno skip, looked plumb to me"
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^ LOL
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Nice start for Haseeb...probably unwise to listen to Broad on the review front though LOL
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102/3 probably an even session. Would've said it was ours until Duckett got out.
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Could have been much better from India's perspective, two drop catches in first 20 mins crucial....
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Anyone else notice Root wearing what looks like an updated version of the Shrey helmet?
The 'Air' and 'Shrey' branding looks printed on as opposed to the stickers that peel off like on Ali's at the other end...
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Cook not reviewing very odd.
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Good partnership building here. Thought the pitch would turn a lot more on day 1. Looks a good batting track
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Obviously missed the first session, how did the young lad Hameed bat? I know he only got 31, but that;s about 30 more than many nervous English debutants?
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look composed from the clips I saw earlier. missed a straight one to get out but BBC text saying he looked pretty good while it lasted
he's got talent this lad, and most of all temperament
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Obviously missed the first session, how did the young lad Hameed bat? I know he only got 31, but that;s about 30 more than many nervous English debutants?
Very organised and composed until the over he got out in and should have told cook to review and not review himself (although root told him too)
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Obviously missed the first session, how did the young lad Hameed bat? I know he only got 31, but that;s about 30 more than many nervous English debutants?
Got lucky with a couple of edges but looked OK overall and played a couple of genuinely classy cover drives.
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looks more like an opener than the last few
By that I mean he just seemed a bit more sure of himself but only a glimpse lets see after 10 or so tests
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ROOOOOOOOOOOOOT
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100 up for root...first overseas player to score a 100 in india since 2013!!
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yeah let's leave the kid in and let him settle. we've had too many openers in the last 2 years.
ton up for joe root.
how good is this lad. pride of Yorkshire
and for us Southerners, our favourite flat capper.
well batted son,that's class :)
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100 up for root...first overseas player to score a 100 in india since 2013!!
1st toss won by an opposing captain in last 3 years? :) ;) :)
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1st toss won by an opposing captain in last 3 years? :) ;) :)
We provided the coin due to BCCI asset freeze we are entitled to win it
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Just think
If ROOOOOOT becomes captain the best 4 players in the world will all be the captains of their side
Kholi
ROOOOOOOOOT
Smith
Williamson
Yes in that order
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Anyone else notice Root wearing what looks like an updated version of the Shrey helmet?
The 'Air' and 'Shrey' branding looks printed on as opposed to the stickers that peel off like on Ali's at the other end...
But Ali has as SS helmet, it says so on the back! ;)
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Just think
If ROOOOOOT becomes captain the best 4 players in the world will all be the captains of their side
Kholi
ROOOOOOOOOT
Smith
Williamson
Yes in that order
Thinking about this now it isn't too radical a call, but go back as recently as 2 years ago and tell people Smiffy would be Australia's Test Captain and one of the World's best players, you'd have been taken away by the men in white coats!
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Good knock on a good deck to be honest, however I would have sent YJB in next as the left/right hand combination has upset the rhythm of the Indian bowlers.
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BBC text saying Root was not out.
I have never understood bowlers throwing the ball in the air when they don't have it under control
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Yadav got away with one big time, if he had it under control why was he trying to catch it again?
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Yadav got away with one big time, if he had it under control why was he trying to catch it again?
exactly!!!
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Batsmen get no sympathy from me ;)
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Just think
If ROOOOOOT becomes captain the best 4 players in the world will all be the captains of their side
Kholi
ROOOOOOOOOT
Smith
Williamson
Yes in that order
Would rate williamson right now top of that list. Runs and big runs in all conditions and against all teams
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The problem with the root decision was the umpire was quick to give Joe out therefore once the decision has been given To get it overturned the replay needs to prove the bowler did not have the ball under his control
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is it me or has some of the umpiring in recent tests been absolutely shocking?
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Would rate williamson right now top of that list. Runs and big runs in all conditions and against all teams
TBH not seen much of Williamson of late but I would rate Kholi top of list in any format as he is just pure class and unreal talent.
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Yadav got away with one big time, if he had it under control why was he trying to catch it again?
You could spin it round and ask why, if he didn't have it under control, did Root start walking off immediately?
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You could spin it round and ask why, if he didn't have it under control, did Root start walking off immediately?
Because he thought I was caught, before Yadav cocked it up? Not sure what Root's reaction has to do with it anyway tbh. On-field umpires bottled it and stitched the third umpire up by giving a soft signal if you ask me, slomo was never going to find a reason to overturn a decision either way. Those are given no 99% of the time.
Kohli isn't even on the same planet as Williamson in tests, sorry!
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Amla? AB de Villiers? Brave man naming a top four without either of those two...
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England score 311 on day one something touring teams havent done for some time different game for India not what they are used to playing at home.
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England score 311 on day one something touring teams havent done for some time different game for India not what they are used to playing at home.
Pitch is a lot flatter than what they've produced against other sides. Might be the reason why...
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I suspect that India losing the toss and therefore not batting first for the first time for quite a while also has something to do with it?
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doesn't look like big turn early on and batting first is a huge bonus, we do need 500 thou.
could be first game in this stadium they want the pitch to last maybe?
not well attended either, not sure this is right but ground is 15 miles from the nearest town and no public transport........
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Pitch is a lot flatter than what they've produced against other sides. Might be the reason why...
Lol... LBH New Zealand, including Williamson gave away their wickets on a couple of flat decks during that last series.
I am all for being bias... But come on my kiwi friend.
From an unbiased point of few I would put Williamson ahead of Kohli as a test match batsman. Williamson has made more runs in unfavourable conditions than Kohli has...
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I suspect that India losing the toss and therefore not batting first for the first time for quite a while also has something to do with it?
Yep, last time a visiting team won a toss in India was three years ago almost to the day iirc
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doesn't look like big turn early on and batting first is a huge bonus, we do need 500 thou.
could be first game in this stadium they want the pitch to last maybe?
not well attended either, not sure this is right but ground is 15 miles from the nearest town and no public transport........
Think the main reason for lack of crowd could be that the Indian government cut certain rupee notes out of circulation over night in an attempt to "weed out " money launderers...
Meant cash machines were out of order...
India and corruptio... Who'd have thought it?? :o
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Ganguly did say he wanted pitches to be batsmen friendly on day 1/2 to help prepare indian bowlers for bowling away from home
Maybe this the start
I love the controversy of naming top batsmen hahahaha
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God I love test cricket
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Just think
If ROOOOOOT becomes captain the best 4 players in the world will all be the captains of their side
Kholi
ROOOOOOOOOT
Smith
Williamson
Yes in that order
Reckon you could argue top five, with AB De Villiers. Your order is all screwy though...
Williamson
Root
De Villiers
Kohli
Smith
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Reckon you could argue top five, with AB De Villiers. Your order is all screwy though...
Williamson
Root
De Villiers
Kohli
Smith
Right you name time and place
i'll name brand of handbag and i'll tickle you silly for daring to disagree with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously though I have not seen much of Williamson lately but every time I watch Kholi I think he is cheating somehow as he makes it look too easy
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Right you name time and place
i'll name brand of handbag and i'll tickle you silly for daring to disagree with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously though I have not seen much of Williamson lately but every time I watch Kholi I think he is cheating somehow as he makes it look too easy
He does sometimes, yes. But he is prone to going missing sometimes, which Kane, Rooooooot and AB are not.
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IIRC the previous ground in Gujarat was in Ahmedabad and that was a flat road. They've move to a new stadia yet the pitch seems to have transfers over...Always thought Gujarat was a bit like Lords, a cooperate ground ensuring 5 days to fill the bank balance. Otherwise after seeing how suspect England where in Bangladesh, I thought there'd be dustbowls on demand
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Lol... LBH New Zealand, including Williamson gave away their wickets on a couple of flat decks during that last series.
I am all for being bias... But come on my kiwi friend.
From an unbiased point of few I would put Williamson ahead of Kohli as a test match batsman. Williamson has made more runs in unfavourable conditions than Kohli has...
Kohli has scored most of his hundreds outside India so that doesn't hold much water...
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IIRC the previous ground in Gujarat was in Ahmedabad and that was a flat road. They've move to a new stadia yet the pitch seems to have transfers over...Always thought Gujarat was a bit like Lords, a cooperate ground ensuring 5 days to fill the bank balance. Otherwise after seeing how suspect England where in Bangladesh, I thought there'd be dustbowls on demand
if I read Ganguly's comments correctly he is saying dustbowls don't benefit india for away games which is what he wants them to achieve(better results away)
this is interesting thinking I actually think that is good logic.....
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if I read Ganguly's comments correctly he is saying dustbowls don't benefit india for away games which is what he wants them to achieve(better results away)
this is interesting thinking I actually think that is good logic.....
I always chuckle when Ganguly opens his mouth. When he was Indian captain he begged for ranging turners. Yes it doesn't help India in away matches. But first and foremost you want to win your home matches
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I always chuckle when Ganguly opens his mouth. When he was Indian captain he begged for ranging turners. Yes it doesn't help India in away matches. But first and foremost you want to win your home matches
yes of course that's true.
India's record at home thou is pretty formidable. we won away 4 years ago......don't know the stats but would say away teams to get a series win have got to play out of their skin.
I actually cannot remember the last home series India lost apart from against England.....there's not many is recent years..
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Kohli has scored most of his hundreds outside India so that doesn't hold much water...
Sorry, but for me W.Indies, Australia ( over 3 years ago before the flat tracks!') and England are places he needs to improve ( in tests)..
Granted he made a 200 in a Match against the West indies but even Ballance has made runs against them.
It's all about opinions obviously and for me Williamson over Kohli in tests in England, West indies and Scotland...
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yes of course that's true.
India's record at home thou is pretty formidable. we won away 4 years ago......don't know the stats but would say away teams to get a series win have got to play out of their skin.
I actually cannot remember the last home series India lost apart from against England.....there's not many is recent years..
Now you mention it their current streak is 12 unbeaten(10 wins and 2 draws according to twitter)
Apart from us winning there, I think the last home series defeat was back in 2004 to Australia
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Sorry, but for me W.Indies, Australia ( over 3 years ago before the flat tracks!') and England are places he needs to improve ( in tests)..
Granted he made a 200 in a Match against the West indies but even Ballance has made runs against them.
It's all about opinions obviously and for me Williamson over Kohli in tests in England, West indies and Scotland...
Only country Kohli doesn't have a hundred in is England. So tick off South Africa, New Zealand, Australia(he scored a hundred there back in 2010), West Indies, Sri Lanka
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Only country Kohli doesn't have a hundred in is England. So tick off South Africa, New Zealand, Australia(he scored a hundred there back in 2010), West Indies, Sri Lanka
I didn't say he wasn't talented.... I just prefer Williamson over Kohli for test matches away from their home soil.
Also, I don't understand your point about Kohli scoring a 100 in.various countries because I believe Ross Taylor has 100's in most of those countries but I still wouldn't have him over Kohli or Williamson.
.
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I didn't say he wasn't talented.... I just prefer Williamson over Kohli for test matches away from their home soil.
Also, I don't understand your point about Kohli scoring a 100 in.various countries because I believe Ross Taylor has 100's in most of those countries but I still wouldn't have him over Kohli or Williamson.
.
It's not a comparable scenario anyway. Kohli is a stroke maker whereas Williamson is more like Amla. Kills you slowly
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It's not a comparable scenario anyway. Kohli is a stroke maker whereas Williamson is more like Amla. Kills you slowly
Wouldn't disagree and hence why Williamson would be in my test side but not my one day team..
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Wouldn't disagree and hence why Williamson would be in my test side but not my one day team..
I could watch Williamson bat all 90 overs and still be on 0*. :)
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Amla? AB de Villiers? Brave man naming a top four without either of those two...
that will be unfair, they both have played close to 100 test and these 4 are at <50
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Whether youve played 50 or 100 tests, if youre one of the world best youll be compared to the worlds best.
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Anyone know of any highlights being shown of day 1?
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Sky Sports @8
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Sky Sports @8
Yes and Bob with a smile on his face hopefully in the verdict.
:).
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He's still bitching on about selection in Dhaka.
We should get him on here.
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Please can someone find the post from about a year ago when I said moeen should bat at 5!!
What moeen is better than any other batsman in the English team is a builder of partnerships. He rotates the strike well and releases pressure by taking calculated risk.
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Yeah I'll find it for ya
Found your ones about Hales should be opening there's a few of those.
:)
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Yeah I'll find it for ya
Found your ones about Hales should be opening there's a few of those.
:)
I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about 😁😜 :o
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Yeah I'll find it for ya
Found your ones about Hales should be opening there's a few of those.
:)
While you are at it, find my Root should bat at 3 repeated posts :D
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Bloody hell, how many chances are India going to drop
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You cant keep dropping them at this level but its helped us big time.
This is an odd match...theres no spin i call really see and the stadium is half empty.
Not what i thought at all.
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Just waiting for the
"Drop woakes he only made 4" post............
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Woakes had no Gray Nics stamps on his edges either.
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OK then.
Who had "England rack up 500 in game one".
Hands up.
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No hands from me!! :)
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OK then.
Who had "England rack up 500 in game one".
Hands up.
*raises hand*
you didn't specify how many times I expected them to have to bat to get them... :)
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Test cricket in the Trump era has been pretty good
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Three good hundreds of different guises. Root looked serene from the crease, Moeen's fearless use of his feet to the spinners, and Stokes' brilliant but sometimes skittish effort.
Well played Zaf too, to get close to 550 is an effort I didn't expect.
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Really good effort by England, could do with a few 3/4 wickets this session and i feel we must hit kohli hard!! test his patience and really attack him early on!!! rahane a key wicket too
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A great effort from England. So didn't see this coming. Will be intrigued to see how this indian batting fairs under scoreboard pressure!
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Does anyone know what make ball they are using? Is it a SG?
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Does anyone know what make ball they are using? Is it a SG?
Thanks Nasser Hussain, two minutes after I posted, he announced they are using a SG ball...
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Stuart Broad is bowling quicker than ive seen him bowl in ages .....one over included 146, 145 , 144 km per hour . He's found the fountain of youth or something ! :)
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Stuart Broad is bowling quicker than ive seen him bowl in ages .....one over included 146, 145 , 144 km per hour . He's found the fountain of youth or something ! :)
Cocaine
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Just watching Rashid and Ansari bowl in tandem a.t.m. You Poms keep heaping s@#t on these guys , but as an Aussie I'd kill to have those two , plus Ali , on our tour to India in February!
We have Lyon , O'keefe , Maxwell, Agar , Zampa , Swepson , Beer , Boyse , Rose , Holland etc to choose from . ;) :(
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Also.....is this the longest batting line up /best tail England (or anyone) have had in decades , or what ?!!
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Just watching Rashid and Ansari bowl in tandem a.t.m. You Poms keep heaping s@#t on these guys , but as an Aussie I'd kill to have those two , plus Ali , on our tour to India in February!
We have Lyon , O'keefe , Maxwell, Agar , Zampa , Swepson , Beer , Boyse , Rose , Holland etc to choose from . ;) :(
I'm going to pass up on the chance to diss Clubbie Lyon at this point and focus instead on the bigger issue. Which is that neither country seems to take spin bowling that seriously in the longer form of the game ay the moment; Graeme Swann had it more or less right when he said that they were picked for an over before lunch, two to tea and five before the new ball in most sides.
That said, O'Keefe has done okay in sub-continental conditions from what I've seen - he may not be a stellar performer, but he should hold his own.
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Also.....is this the longest batting line up /best tail England (or anyone) have had in decades , or what ?!!
Its a Manx cat of a line up, thats for sure.
Woakes at eight - proper player
Rashid at nine - a little loose sometimes but good enough to have batted five in first class cricket
Ansari at ten - not seen so much of him, but has opened in first class cricket
Broad - more of a lower order player nowadays, but definitely no rabbit
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Ansari does strengthen the tail as he can def bat
We probably wanted 2 spinners away from the right handers but he maybe his batting got him in ahead of batty
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Can't imagine they'd make that kind of call on the basis of the more talented number ten. That's be ridiculous.
Wait, this is the England selectors we are speaking about...
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Should've picked Batty. He's from Yorkshire......
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Don't really see the need to have batting down to number 10 unless it's to compensate for a inconsistent top order. When you end up with 6 bowlers more times than not 2 end up doing very little. As we saw in Chittagong batting down to number 10 didn't make much difference. Chris Woakes looks 'world class' in English conditions yet when it doesn't swing he's lacks the skill to trouble top class players. Ansari is neither a batsman nor a bowler. I'd bring in Anderson and Batty for Woakes and Ansari.
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Just watching Rashid and Ansari bowl in tandem a.t.m. You Poms keep heaping s@#t on these guys , but as an Aussie I'd kill to have those two , plus Ali , on our tour to India in February!
We have Lyon , O'keefe , Maxwell, Agar , Zampa , Swepson , Beer , Boyse , Rose , Holland etc to choose from . ;) :(
Beer. Remember this guy?
Not very often people covet Adil Rashid, let alone an Aussie. Must be bad!
Also. Swepson, Boyse & Rose... Who? :D
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People are so quick to rid the team of Woakes because it isnt swinging for him, Yet Anderson has openly admitted he needed time to learn how to bowl in the subcontinent and develop things like the Wobble-Seam delivery. Imagine if we just chucked him out because he couldnt swing it in asia..
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People are so quick to rid the team of Woakes because it isnt swinging for him, Yet Anderson has openly admitted he needed time to learn how to bowl in the subcontinent and develop things like the Wobble-Seam delivery. Imagine if we just chucked him out because he couldnt swing it in asia..
When you have Stokes, Woakes is no more than a luxury in these conditions. Need bowlers who can take 20 wickets. Not bowlers who will get a few runs and be toothless with the ball.
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When you have Stokes, Woakes is no more than a luxury in these conditions. Need bowlers who can take 20 wickets. Not bowlers who will get a few runs and be toothless with the ball.
Tell that to the Australian selectors ;)
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When you have Stokes, Woakes is no more than a luxury in these conditions. Need bowlers who can take 20 wickets. Not bowlers who will get a few runs and be toothless with the ball.
Luxury yes having watched this morning did nothing with the bat and bowled to short or to wide I think it's to easy tto look at players averages and not take into consideration the number of not outs or tail enders dismissed also in the summer in UK conditions Sri Lanka were poor and So were Pakistan until the sun came out
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Lets drop woakes then, risk a recovering and now injury prone Anderson and in 2 years time when we next visit asia (most likely without Anderson and Broad) and the west indies (who werent producing absolute seamers last time we visited) we rock up with just stokes leading the line and all the other seamers having no experience of test match cricket in the subcontinent. I understand we want to win tests here and now, but england are investing in the future with players like Duckett, Hameed and Ansari,youve also got to look to the future
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Lets drop woakes then, risk a recovering and now injury prone Anderson and in 2 years time when we next visit asia (most likely without Anderson and Broad) and the west indies (who werent producing absolute seamers last time we visited) we rock up with just stokes leading the line and all the other seamers having no experience of test match cricket in the subcontinent. I understand we want to win tests here and now, but england are investing in the future with players like Duckett, Hameed and Ansari,youve also got to look to the future
Don't be a moron. Jake Ball showed in Bangladesh he has to the tools to thrive in Asia. Stokes already has. Woakes hasn't. You're acting like England don't produce bowlers capable of adapting when I clearly proved you wrong
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I think Jake Ball is a good shout and am sure he will get a game or two on this tour.
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Why should we take a line up in the future and just expect them to adapt, why cant we blood a line up to be experienced? Stokes is a freak show and his action means he naturally reverse swings the ball, hes not just suddenly found this overnight. I dont see the ECB sending out fresh faces and saying "just go adapt". Theyve investing time and money into players for the long haul.
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Why should we take a line up in the future and just expect them to adapt, why cant we blood a line up to be experienced? Stokes is a freak show and his action means he naturally reverse swings the ball, hes not just suddenly found this overnight. I dont see the ECB sending out fresh faces and saying "just go adapt". Theyve investing time and money into players for the long haul.
Playing the #1 side in the world isn't when you 'blood new players' especially when it's a series that's considered one of the toughest. Blood players against the likes of Bangladesh and West Indies.
Jake Ball's never toured Asia better and he showed he had the skill set needed to be successful.
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Beer. Remember this guy?
Not very often people covet Adil Rashid, let alone an Aussie. Must be bad!
Also. Swepson, Boyse & Rose... Who? :D
Exactly ! Who ? ....yes it's slim pickings , although I forgot Fawad Ahmed , hahaha. My bad .
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Woakes has been one of England's best players this year.
It seems extraordinary that people are saying he is a luxury. And yet I am not surprised.
We are 2 days into a test match with runs on the board let's wait a bit before we start dissing the team for once.
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Agreed with Buzz. Woakes has been great this season and its unreasonable to question his spot already.
Definitely need some patience here. :D
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In 2016, Stokes' batting average in Test cricket is 57.25 and his bowling average 19.80
Can everyone remember when people were calling for Stokes to be dropped, as he was apparently a bit part player who wasn't good enough for test cricket as either a batsman or a bowler?
I hate to say this, (actually, i don't) but "I TOLD YOU SO!"
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Playing the #1 side in the world isn't when you 'blood new players' especially when it's a series that's considered one of the toughest.
And yet here we are with duckett hameed and ansari, and you still want to drop an experienced player. Great logic.
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All of this makes it sound like we're in a crisis. Ah.
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Err.. they did drop him didn't they?
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And yet here we are with duckett hameed and ansari, and you still want to drop an experienced player. Great logic.
Ansari and Duckett debuted against Bangladesh...Hameed should've debuted against Bangladesh...
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Woakes has been one of England's best players this year.
It seems extraordinary that people are saying he is a luxury. And yet I am not surprised.
We are 2 days into a test match with runs on the board let's wait a bit before we start dissing the team for once.
Woakes has been one of England's best players in English conditions...Bangladesh and India aren't in England
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Basically , here's the deal - everyone chill out and have a biscuit . You might be able to tweak the team a little bit , a player here or there , but essentially it's a bloody good side you've got . You have a legit chance of beating India in India after all ! And even if you don't it won't be all bad . Just accept players ( particularly pacemen ) having some bad days over there without calling for their heads . I mean , geez , dropping Woakes ? .... are ya freal ? If you don't want him then send him over here to Oz - we'll swap you for M.Marsh , Enriques, Christian, Stoinis , a first round draft pick , and a Michael Jordan rookie card .
Seriously, just hold tight with the nucleus of your team ....you'll be glad you did next year when you smash us in the Ashes .
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Agreed with Buzz. Woakes has been great this season and its unreasonable to question his spot already.
Definitely need some patience here. :D
He probably won't play in the next test unless theirs injuries as the wicket is a a known turner and Broad bowls better when he as Jimmy opening with him as for the future if he can stay fit Mark wood is a far better bowler.
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He probably won't play in the next test unless theirs injuries as the wicket is a a known turner and Broad bowls better when he as Jimmy opening with him as for the future if he can stay fit Mark wood is a far better bowler.
Well that could depend on what he does here. He may take a few wickets and get a score 2nd dig :)
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Woakes has been one of England's best players in English conditions...Bangladesh and India aren't in England
How do you expect players to get better in foreign conditions if they don't play?
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He probably won't play in the next test unless theirs injuries as the wicket is a a known turner and Broad bowls better when he as Jimmy opening with him as for the future if he can stay fit Mark wood is a far better bowler.
Your hatred towards Woakes seems to make you blinkered in your opinions of him.
No, he hasn't been amazing so far in the subcontinent, but you won't learn how to bowl in these conditions if you're carrying the drinks.
He's a genuine all rounder and has shown what he can do at Test level in England. Let him learn on the job in conditions less friendly to the bowlers. Jimmy Anderson has said himself he had to learn how to bowl differently in subcontinental conditions to how he does at home, and he's turned out an okay bowler. I'm confident that, given the chance, Woakes can do the same.
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Basically , here's the deal - everyone chill out and have a biscuit . You might be able to tweak the team a little bit , a player here or there , but essentially it's a bloody good side you've got . You have a legit chance of beating India in India after all ! And even if you don't it won't be all bad . Just accept players ( particularly pacemen ) having some bad days over there without calling for their heads . I mean , geez , dropping Woakes ? .... are ya freal ? If you don't want him then send him over here to Oz - we'll swap you for M.Marsh , Enriques, Christian, Stoinis , a first round draft pick , and a Michael Jordan rookie card .
Seriously, just hold tight with the nucleus of your team ....you'll be glad you did next year when you smash us in the Ashes .
loving this post. can't remember are ya freal was posted on here. brother i'm HEEEEERIN YA DUDE :)
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How do you expect players to get better in foreign conditions if they don't play?
Some players have it, others don't. Woakes unfortunately doesn't have the extra gear that comes naturally to other players. And it's not just foreign conditions, when it flattens out in England he goes back to being toothless.
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Just waiting for the
"Drop woakes he only made 4" post............
I was not disappointed. We just put 500 plus on and have only bowled 23 overs and we are already wanting to drop and change players.
The English are fickle.
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I was not disappointed. We just put 500 plus on and have only bowled 23 overs and we are already wanting to drop and change players.
The English are fickle.
I'm still surprised Stokes wasn't dropped against Bangladesh after the first Test, threw away a ton and a Michelle in Chittagong, only 100 runs and 6 wickets by a seamer on a low scoring, raging bunsen. Then conveniently scores a ton on a road today to keep his place for another few tests.
:D :D
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In the past we have not had the luxury of having high class players waiting to get a game....Ball, Jimmy!
So it seems to be that people want changes because we seem to be trying to fit in too many players.
I have always said that Ball looks great and would be an obvious substitute for Broad. Woakes will hopefully learn the craft in these different conditions, especially with the likes of Anderson by his side.
It does a little complicated if Anderson is fully fit for the 2nd Test though! With 5 Tests in a short space of time, they have already talked about legitimately rotating players! So do you look at Anderson playing and resting Broad? Or do you look at resting Woakes? Also will Ball and Batty get a match? I would love to know what the plans are! :)
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In the past we have not had the luxury of having high class players waiting to get a game....Ball, Jimmy!
So it seems to be that people want changes because we seem to be trying to fit in too many players.
I have always said that Ball looks great and would be an obvious substitute for Broad. Woakes will hopefully learn the craft in these different conditions, especially with the likes of Anderson by his side.
It does a little complicated if Anderson is fully fit for the 2nd Test though! With 5 Tests in a short space of time, they have already talked about legitimately rotating players! So do you look at Anderson playing and resting Broad? Or do you look at resting Woakes? Also will Ball and Batty get a match? I would love to know what the plans are! :)
Broad had a rest in Bangladesh but yes it's got to be huge odds against 5 tests in a row we don't rotate the seamers especially. Stokes was cramping up today you can't over estimate the conditions we are in
it must be draining bowling in that heat all day, and if they bat well, 2 days in the field.
if Jimmy A comes back....hmmm tricky who to leave out. Jake Ball is real good, should of played instead of Finn in Bangla.
Woakes in when Jimmy is on the sidelines could send the forum into a tailspin :)
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Some players have it, others don't. Woakes unfortunately doesn't have the extra gear that comes naturally to other players. And it's not just foreign conditions, when it flattens out in England he goes back to being toothless.
What Woakes does have though, is a drive to better himself and an excellent work ethic!
Remember when he was "too slow" for Test cricket? He went away, worked hard and put on a yard of pace.
remember when he'd initially put on that yard of pace, but lost the ability to swing the ball? He worked on his game and gained the ability to move the ball at pace.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Woakes is a talented cricketer who's not afraid to put the hard yards in. Give him the chance to develop and he'll grow into an asset to the side in all conditions. He's already proved me right in England, so I'm going to say he'll come good abroad before too long.
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He was too slow, but he's not now.
I don't quite get the downer on Woakes on the forum, he's improved massively. He's got to share the workload in India and that's part of the team, i'm sure he knows that.
Some cricketers are stars and stand out or a bit flash(broad/swann/KP) and some others do a job for the team.
I think Woakes is the latter and would not be surprised to see him in the wickets in this match or soon enough.
On flat decks, really flat decks, a lot of bowlers look a bit ordinary...
only the absolute cream of the bowlers do well on flat decks in Asia. If it don't swing Jimmy A looks a bit up and down. You wouldn't leave him out of the team.
:)
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Your hatred towards Woakes seems to make you blinkered in your opinions of him.
No, he hasn't been amazing so far in the subcontinent, but you won't learn how to bowl in these conditions if you're carrying the drinks.
He's a genuine all rounder and has shown what he can do at Test level in England. Let him learn on the job in conditions less friendly to the bowlers. Jimmy Anderson has said himself he had to learn how to bowl differently in subcontinental conditions to how he does at home, and he's turned out an okay bowler. I'm confident that, given the chance, Woakes can do the same.
Not hatred or blinkered Cam just want England to do well I know what I saw this morning there can be no excuse for bowling short to give India the start they wanted.
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Rajkot has produced a IPL pitch, not sure what Indian captain and management was thinking. Disappointed!!!
Doubt there will be result here, move on to second test.
- Indian supporter :)
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Im amazed at this pitch to be honest.it just looks flat..
Especially after the bangla series
New stadium new pitch i guess.
This has got to be a one off wicket?
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Rajkot has produced a IPL pitch, not sure what Indian captain and management was thinking. Disappointed!!!
Doubt there will be result here, move on to second test.
- Indian supporter :)
You could well be right having said that there's a far few cracks on that track which I guess will widen won't be easy batting last
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You could well be right having said that there's a far few cracks on that track which I guess will widen won't be easy batting last
Looks a little like an Indian Wacca with all those cracks .
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Some great batting by team India batsmen! Pujara and Vijay will get to their 3K runs in this inning.
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Thought Pujara was a steady accumulator and mainly a blocker...when did he turn in a dasher?
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Drs saves pujura
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Might as well shake hands and go home now.
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yep it's flat.
Woakes has bowled well this morning thou wickets harder to come by than a bad hell 4 leather bat.
still....keep plugging away
I suspect big turning wickets after this match otherwise it could be 0-0 after 5 games
:)
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I really think India underestimated England after watching us against bangladesh and thought they could just win the toss score 500+ let the pitch deteriorate and ashwin would bowl us out.
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So if the ball turns square its an issue and if its flat its also an issue. Personally rather see the ball turning square from day 1, makes for more interesting cricket even if it only lasts 3 days.
Thought rashid bowled really well before tea. Thought cook should have kept him on.
Not a great start from Ali with the new ball
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I really think India underestimated England after watching us against bangladesh and thought they could just win the toss score 500+ let the pitch deteriorate and ashwin would bowl us out.
pitches in Bangladesh where square turners, this pitch isn't. Still time for the pitch to deteriorate in this match
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100 up for VJ too now. If India can get past england's score, it could get interesting
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Vijay's like a more athletic version of Laxman, shots through the leg side are beautiful
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This could get interesting! India could be 400-5 by close.
And then with 2 days to go, things could start changing rapidly. We've seen it lots of times, where days 4 and 5 in Asian conditions, wickets start to tumble.
If India get ahead, will be interesting to see how England fair under a bit of pressure.
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This could get interesting! India could be 400-5 by close.
Don't think they'll score 140 runs in 20 overs tonight
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Is Stokes injured? I noticed his only bowled 6 overs....
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Don't think they'll score 140 runs in 20 overs tonight
whoops, my bad. didn't realise there were 20 overs left. :D
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I think India would want these two to get them passed the follow on mark and then increase the scoring rate when like of Kohli and Rahane get a go.
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WE GOT A WICKET ON THE CEMENT TRACK!!!! :)
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WE GOT A WICKET ON THE CEMENT TRACK!!!! :)
Only a cement track when england are bowling, otherwise 3 100s on a bunsen burner ;)
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Mad props for YJB lidding up to Broady.
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YES DILLY
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Hameed is the greatest short leg fielder of all time
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big two wickets late on!!! will need kohli and rahane out quickly before they start to take this game away form england!!
I have to say ive been really impressed with rash in this test, bowled much better than mishra and has seemed to have much more control and looked an actual threat at times
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big two wickets late on!!! will need kohli and rahane out quickly before they start to take this game away form england!!
I have to say ive been really impressed with rash in this test, bowled much better than mishra and has seemed to have much more control and looked an actual threat at times
not sure I would say Mishra is a big wicket?
but agreed, Rahane and Kohli the key. as I am not too sure that Ashwin and Saha will pose much of a threat with the bat?
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big two wickets late on!!! will need kohli and rahane out quickly before they start to take this game away form england!!
I have to say ive been really impressed with rash in this test, bowled much better than mishra and has seemed to have much more control and looked an actual threat at times
yes me too. he has bowled better than I thought he would. England's day in the end?
even I reckon
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not sure I would say Mishra is a big wicket?
but agreed, Rahane and Kohli the key. as I am not too sure that Ashwin and Saha will pose much of a threat with the bat?
It was more the fact two of englands spinners now have wickets and mo will be on a high after his ton anyway.
Id say mishra is a bigger wicket than people think, Remember his 84 in 2012 as night watchmen, he's done is before so no reason to doubt it will happen again! new man in in the morning can only be a good thing!
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do think the day is even
England haven't let india get away with it and chipped in with some wickets
but india will be content having lost only 3 recognised batsmen all day
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not sure I would say Mishra is a big wicket?
but agreed, Rahane and Kohli the key. as I am not too sure that Ashwin and Saha will pose much of a threat with the bat?
Ashwin has 4 hundreds, he's a proper all rounder. Saha is averaging 50 odd with the bat 2016 so he's pretty decent as well.
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With the batsmen remaining there some be more chances of taking 3/4 wickets quickly. Rahane, Ashwin, Saha and Jadeja are all attacking players.
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With the batsmen remaining there some be more chances of taking 3/4 wickets quickly. Rahane, Ashwin, Saha and Jadeja are all attacking players.
The pitch is definitely starting to help the bowlers more. My concern is that cook will go all defensive like he has been with Rashid for most of his overs (in the last 3 matches for defo) and Kohli etc will just accumulate 1/2's and the occasional boundary till they end up about 80-100 ahead and then with the pitch being helpful to the bowlers we may just lose the plot and end up losing.
For me cook needs to attack more with our spinners and look to take wickets ASAP before they get to close to out total.
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Even though i feel there is not going to be a result in this test match, it will still be an interesting phase. How Cook operates will be important to see. On one hand he wants to attack and take wickets to gain any psychological advantage and on the other hand be defensive and risk another couple of 100s being scored by Indians and gain confidence. Latter is more likely to happen which will not be good for England's confidence and rest of the series.
I would say India is little bit ahead in the sense they can easily come close to England's first innings score. Kohli, Rahane, Ashwin, Saha are all in good form and capable of scoring some big runs and Jadeja can get some quick 20-30.
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England are on the one hand slightly ahead, in that they have the runs on the board and Kohli's dismissal would really swing things. But... If someone were to win this, it's going to be India. It's just impossible to see how there is time left in the game for England to bowl India out twice and put a big enough lead on the board in between...
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Can't believe we're disappointed with a (Probable) draw, when we've spent most of the last 4 weeks expecting India to have our pants down.
Only England fans! :D
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Not disappointed at all. It's been an interesting test this far
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I think we have played great. !!
Good to see the spinners bowling well. We got runs on the board and have taken some good catches.
Ansari better than I thought and for a left arm spinner and decent bat might be the answer to a few problems?
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The real revelation with rashid, who bowled much more like he does for Yorkshire today, passing way more questions than any of the other bowlers. Still like him to a few mph quicker but, on that deck against good players of spin, quality.
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Cook's bowling changes left a little to be desired today. Rashid probably with his best sustained effort in white clothing, should've bowled a lot more.
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Rahane looked like a tailender with that judgement of length. Bit of pressure on Ashwin to justify that all-rounder tag here
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hahaha what a way to go, Kohli trod on his stumps :D
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Oh dear cook! What an easy drop...luckily its number 11
England have done well to knock India over today and still have a lead. Pretty pointless trying to set up a lead and go for the win. Probably better to bat out the remaining day and a half- get some batting practice and keep India in the field as long as possible
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Great innings from ashwin
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Could be the making of Rashid as a test cricketer this tour. If he has a good tour and, as others have said, finally bowls more like we see him bowl for Yorkshire and if Moeen continues to bat well at 5, is there a case for simply swapping Ansari for Anderson and going into next summer with 4 seamers and Mo and Rashid sharing the spin duties? Or do we think Rashid will lose his place to Ball or Finn?
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After that first over from jadeja, they should get Ashwin on. All of a sudden it seems to be doing a bit
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Massive six from hameed!!
Better attacking opener than hales ever was.......
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Beautiful cover drive off Ashwin as well. Love the kid
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Good start really like hameed we must let him settle in to opening you can see he's a natural temperament for it and text book defence.
Excellent bowling from Rashid today will do him a lot of good....
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Is it too early to be dreaming about this partnership for a few years to come?
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No...we leave him in come hell or high water.
England have coaches to help should he need advice.
Got to work with him to improve his game, temperament and technique he has already.
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Optimisms from me here.
But
Surely this is near the side for a while now?
Off the top seven, I'd say only duckett to prove himself.
And when we get home, barring injuries our seam attack will be Anderson broad woakes and stokes.
Which means we have a interesting choice in the last spot (number 8 or 9 dependant.
Do we go extra spinner in England. Ansari or Rashid?
Do we go extra seamer to make 5? Wood, plunkett, ball etc.
Or do we say 4 seamers and Ali is enough, and put an extra batsmen in after bairstow? Buttler, billings, Roy? An attacking number 8?
Couple Ben see hales back as a lownorder attacking player.......
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I was wrong - I thought that it may be a little too much to ask for Hameed to be thrown into the Indian Tests straight away, but he actually looks very comfortable!
I suspect that Hales is watching this knowing that his days as a Test opener are pretty much over!
Fingers crossed that Hameed is now given a long, long run and can establish himself as Cook's partner!
We just need Duckett to stand up and solve the No4 spot now
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Brilliant innings by hameed. Looks solid and plays the drive very well.
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Opening partnership of 100 up. So sacred...
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Opening partnership of 100 up. So sacred...
First 100 opening stand since Cook and Duckett vs Bangladesh last month!
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Optimisms from me here.
But
Surely this is near the side for a while now?
Off the top seven, I'd say only duckett to prove himself.
And when we get home, barring injuries our seam attack will be Anderson broad woakes and stokes.
Which means we have a interesting choice in the last spot (number 8 or 9 dependant.
Do we go extra spinner in England. Ansari or Rashid?
Do we go extra seamer to make 5? Wood, plunkett, ball etc.
Or do we say 4 seamers and Ali is enough, and put an extra batsmen in after bairstow? Buttler, billings, Roy? An attacking number 8?
Couple Ben see hales back as a lownorder attacking player.......
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Senior dude. Did you mean to reply to my post? Or just randomly quoting it for no reason?
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Optimisms from me here.
But
Surely this is near the side for a while now?
Off the top seven, I'd say only duckett to prove himself.
And when we get home, barring injuries our seam attack will be Anderson broad woakes and stokes.
Which means we have a interesting choice in the last spot (number 8 or 9 dependant.
Do we go extra spinner in England. Ansari or Rashid?
Do we go extra seamer to make 5? Wood, plunkett, ball etc.
Or do we say 4 seamers and Ali is enough, and put an extra batsmen in after bairstow? Buttler, billings, Roy? An attacking number 8?
Couple Ben see hales back as a lownorder attacking player.......
This is what I was getting at earlier, if our seamers are high quality (I'd suggest Anderson, Broad, Woakes and Stokes certainly are) do we need 5 seamers or can we take a little pressure off Mo (seeing as he's batting at 5) by having Rashid share the spin duties (helps that he's a very capable lower order batsman too)?
Could be the making of Rashid as a test cricketer this tour. If he has a good tour and, as others have said, finally bowls more like we see him bowl for Yorkshire and if Moeen continues to bat well at 5, is there a case for simply swapping Ansari for Anderson and going into next summer with 4 seamers and Mo and Rashid sharing the spin duties? Or do we think Rashid will lose his place to Ball or Finn?
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In more English-type wicket conditions I suspect it will more like...
Cook
Hameed
Root
Duckett (if he starts to prove himself!)
Ali
Stokes
Bairstow
Woakes
Ball/Rashid/Ansari
Broad
Anderson
Looks as though Hameed is looking like a decent option for opener for a while, and hopefully for good.
Fingers crossed that Duckett starts to perform and cement his place as number 4.
The only other question in my mind is number 9 spot! There are a number of options in my book!
If it is a green top then a 5th pace bowler so Ball would get the nod for me.
If it is likely to be a turner after a couple of days then either Rashid or Ansari could be playing.
The last option could be that if the 4-man pace attack is doing well and the Ali & (part-time) Root are only needed for the odd couple of overs here and there, then how about giving Buttler a game? He could bat at 8 with Woakes moving to 9 and really add absolute carnage if batting with Stokes or Bairstow?
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My last post is perhaps a question for after the Indian Test series. So maybe the more pressing question is what to do if Jimmy is back bowling?
He is absolutely our premier bower and capable of swinging it both ways in most conditions....plus Anderson has dismissed Kholi more than any other bowler in Tests, so surely that must be enough reason to bowl him!!
So let's assume that the top 7 are the same (Cook, Hameed, Root, Duckett, Ali, Stokes, Bairstow.). Assuming the wicket for the 2nd Test is spin-friendly and we play 2 spinners (Probably Ansari and Rashid) then that leaves only 2 spot for pace bowlers to join Stokes at 5!
And for those 2 spots we have Anderson, Broad, Woakes and Ball. No offence but Finn isn't looking anywhere near the same bowler he was previously at the moment!
So which 2 get the gig? Would it be worth giving Broad and Woakes a rest and playing Ball and Anderson to see how they do? Or only make one change?
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People are so fickle! But I might have mentioned this before? ;)
Personally, I hope playing two spinners becomes the norm again.
A specialist no. 8 bat or a fifth seamer? No, no, no!
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Can't think why on earth we'd need a fifth seamer, or what use a specialist no8 bat will do! I'd say back in England, if Mo stays at 5 then we keep Rashid in.
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With Anderson, Broad plus Stokes and Woakes, I can't see why that wouldn't be enough.
But if it is a wicket that is unlikely to take spin well, even in day 4 and 5, then I think there could be a real case for playing Ali and Root as spinners and having Buttler in at 8?
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With Anderson, Broad plus Stokes and Woakes, I can't see why that wouldn't be enough.
But if it is a wicket that is unlikely to take spin well, even in day 4 and 5, then I think there could be a real case for playing Ali and Root as spinners and having Buttler in at 8?
I'd rather them play a specialist keeper - something they could also do if Bairstow batted in the top five (no. 4, instead of Duckett, for now?)
But Bairstow's keeping seems to have improved somewhat?
People sniggered when I suggested Ali could bat at five.
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Based on this the current
match Anderson to replace Woakes also if the experts are correct the second test wicket will spin
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Bairstow has had a record year with the bat. I don't see why you'd change that, especially as his keeping is improving. Buttler hasn't kept in red ball cricket for months,mor longer, and struggled against Nathan lyon. Keep YJB behind the sticks...
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Based on this the current
match Anderson to replace Woakes also if the experts are correct the second test wicket will spin
Knew it! :D
Can't believe we've got too many players. Would Australia like some?
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Based on this the current
match Anderson to replace Woakes also if the experts are correct the second test wicket will spin
Tough workload with so much cricket prior to Christmas. Can see the same again for the 2nd test then Anderson in for the 3rd rotating with Woakes / Broad. We've just got to an age Stokes's workload! Must admit that the bowling / control has been very impressive - I'd have loved to see a fit and firing Wood available bowling some serious pace (reverse swing). With Ali batting at 5 Rashid can stake a claim for a spot in the long term if he can maintain the control showed over the last couple of days (home and away).
First time I've seen Hamed bat today, and he's 19 years old - really!?
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Knew it! :D
Can't believe we've got too many players. Would Australia like some?
Haha!! Whatever we do for the second test we cant drop a seamer because jimmy is just coming back and they wont overwork stokes.
If jimmy comes back woakes might drop out.
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Bairstow has had a record year with the bat. I don't see why you'd change that, especially as his keeping is improving. Buttler hasn't kept in red ball cricket for months,mor longer, and struggled against Nathan lyon. Keep YJB behind the sticks...
I was thinking Ben Foakes more than Jos Buttler. But it's not something I feel strongly about. I find it difficult to criticize anything *cough* 'YJB'.
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Surprised no one is mentioning ball, bowled well in the Odis and has the pace to trouble
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He will likely get a game at some point, hes just not above the other seamers in the pecking order, yet.
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Without wishing to display too much Surrey favouritism, I'm still hoping Mark Footitt gets a cap at some point. I would be harsh on him to have got so close, and then not. He looked properly rapid at the back end of last season. But he's getting on a bit...
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The test side is strong now there is quality outside the 11 we have.
Footitt has been unlucky with injuries at his peak..but you could say plunkett also could of played more tests.
If Anderson's career is cut a bit short theres a spot..but England want Wood to be fully fit..not sure he will but hope he does.he has real pace
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All these names being mentioned shows the strength and depth England potentially have at their disposal.
Don't look at the names in the side or squad, look at those not on the Tour, it's a healthy position to be in and a lovely problem to have...
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Various thoughts.
If everyone is fit and available, we seem close to a best all conditions XI:
Hameed
Cook
Root
Duckett
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
That is actually pretty close to a perfectly balanced side - four quicks and a pair of spinners who turn it opposite directions. With the rashid issue, I agree he is not yet a first innings bowler in England, but the ability for any leggie to roll the later order makes it a reasonable idea.
Is there another candidate? We don't need five seamers - ball and Footitt can provide rotation till Jimmy retires. An extra batsman? If you really need a specialist at eight, you have issues....
The bolter in this is Sam Curran. If you have the mother of all middle orders giving you space for a punt, then the kid who gives variety by bowling left arm and can bat at a Rashid/Woakes level might be the point of difference. Just a thought....
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Auto correct on spectacular form there...
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Mishra seriously lucky to get Hameed there, that's a no ball surely?
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Agree completely with that side if not the batting order @Manormanic , this winter was always likely to make or break Moeen and Rashid and thus far they seem to be rising to the challenge. Gives us a perfect balance with Moeen in as a batsman (Bairstow stays at 7 for me), all the bowling covered and proper batsman down to 9. If Curran comes in when Anderson retires we really will have everything covered with a left arm seamer as well!
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Woakessssssss!!!!!
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DROP CHRIS WOAKES, HE'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH
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A quick collapse here should make the game interesting. Gambhir's played his last test match
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Thanks for not reviewing that Chet
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68-3. Give Hameed a lifetime central contract
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England shattering the myth that this current Indian side can play spin well, some of these dismissals have been awful :D :D :D
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I like rahane, but both wickets in this game from whom have been village!
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I'm happy to see Moeen coming round the wicket, much more attacking angle.
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Not impressed with the umpiring from Chris Gaffaney - he is basically giving Ashwin license to kick balls away of the stumps with no intent to play a shot.
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Rash and moeen two most dangerous looking bowlers here.
So cook has root and ansari on......
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And ansari gets a wicket!! Lol
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Into the tail lads...ah
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India bottling this big time.
Can't wait to see the pitch for the second test now :D
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Cant believe Woakes hasnt taken a Fifer with his 4 overs. Drop him..
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YES YES YES! Come on!
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Thought we did brilliantly and didn't think we'd be capable of outplaying India like that in their own back yard. Top and middle order stepped up with the runs and the spinners were in control for most of it. Shoutout to Hameed who looked exceptional and not out of his depth at any point.
Onto Vizag we go.
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Kohli's ahead of Tendulkar for my money. Forget runs/averages/hundreds, Kohli's mental toughness saved the day for India, whereas Tendulkar went missing many times when India where in similar situations
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That's a winning draw for England in village terms! Definitely us with the boost going into the 2nd test
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with the turn the Vizag pitch offered last one day against NZ, it will be very interesting
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As long as we bat first in the remaining games we'll be fine ;)
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Kohli's ahead of Tendulkar for my money. Forget runs/averages/hundreds, Kohli's mental toughness saved the day for India, whereas Tendulkar went missing many times when India where in similar situations
I find myself asking increasingly frequently whether you're always high?
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Kohli's ahead of Tendulkar for my money. Forget runs/averages/hundreds, Kohli's mental toughness saved the day for India, whereas Tendulkar went missing many times when India where in similar situations
Are you ok??
One is the greatest batsmen of modern times the other is outstanding but not in the same league!!
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Are you ok??
One is the greatest batsmen of modern times the other is outstanding but not in the same league!!
No one is denying Tendulkar's ability, and he's one of the all time greats not just a modern day great. I'm talking about the disparity between Tendulkar's record in the first and second innings of a Test match. And in particularly the fourth innings. He often went missing. Whereas Kohli's fourth innings record is sensational
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I find myself asking increasingly frequently whether you're always high?
Perfect clarity in my mind...thanks for your concern...
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I am not sure it is worth bothering to compare Kohli and Sachin.
Let's just accept that Kohli is an exceptional batsman who is also making a decent fist of being skipper.
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quite right Buzz
Kholi is exceptionally talented, he's also a touch arrogant shown in his post match interviews..England were the only team going to win the 1st test
BUT.......I've no doubt the next wicket will turn big and that's a different challenge for us
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quite right Buzz
Kholi is exceptionally talented, he's also a touch arrogant shown in his post match interviews..England were the only team going to win the 1st test
BUT.......I've no doubt the next wicket will turn big and that's a different challenge for us
For my money England's spinners looked better than India's in the first test, I'm not sure a turning wicket would be as big an advantage to India as it might appear. I think a lot of Kohli's success as captain comes from winning a lot of tosses at home, bat first bowl last.
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best ive seen Rashid bowl for sure.
moeen and Ansari had decent control too....was very unconvinced about Ansari, seen him bowl in a couple of County matches and he was very average...but left arm spin he is doing a job. I think potentially his batting is better than his bowling, he's a classy bat.
But Haseeb settling in was a real plus- he looks the part(so far)
India bully teams at home, I suspect we are about to get a raging turner..but whatever happens they won't be bullying us.
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I think the first test was an even affair.
You have to remember England had the better of the conditions. And did very well.
But India under scoreboard pressure still batted very well in that first innings.
I think the true tests lay in wait.
I would like to see England win the next toss, on a turning wicket. And then see how the game pans out.
I do feel if its a turner, and India win the toss. England wont be able to win the game.
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I think the first test was an even affair.
You have to remember England had the better of the conditions. And did very well.
But India under scoreboard pressure still batted very well in that first innings.
I think the true tests lay in wait.
I would like to see England win the next toss, on a turning wicket. And then see how the game pans out.
I do feel if its a turner, and India win the toss. England wont be able to win the game.
Very true.
It's going to be very difficult for England to win if we don't have advantages (the toss) and things go our way.
India need to sort out their openers, Ghambir was just a stop gap I think...the regular guy (raul ?) is fit again.
rahane, kholi,vijay and ashwin are all quality, and Pujara is excellent.
it's def going to get harder for England. We are playing pretty well thou. :)
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On a raging Bunsen, the toss is a huge advantage, one that England, as well as they did here, would struggle to overcome.
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On a raging Bunsen, the toss is a huge advantage, one that England, as well as they did here, would struggle to overcome.
I think im right the next one is the ground against NZ it went big on day 1. I can't believe we are not going to face exactly the same.
our spinners did bowl well thou.Rashid especially
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if englands spinners bowl how they did in the first test even on a turning wicket i thk theyll bowl just as well as indias spinners, and a massive confidence boost for the batsmen was keeping ashwin to 3 for 230 odd (rough figures) for the best in the world id have expected better than that even on a relatively flat wicket first up
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I think im right the next one is the ground against NZ it went big on day 1. I can't believe we are not going to face exactly the same.
our spinners did bowl well thou.Rashid especially
yes next game is at Vizag , which is a ragging turner from day 1!
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Every credit to the groundsman for preparing that wicket. It's a long time since a wicket has been prepared that DIDN'T benefit the winner of the toss.
The pitch had something in it early on then was a good batting wicket for 3 days. A few taken catches (India) and perhaps some more positive batting (England) on the final morning then there probably would have been a result..
I am sure Indian normality will be back for the 2nd test and whoever wins toss will win within 4 days...
Was impressed with the majority of our bowling although Captain Cook is still too negative at times..
As for the batting.. Stokes continues to show he is a fast learner and this test has to be the 1st test I have seen in 30 years where our batsmen have NOT played spin by lunging the big front foot forward trying to smother/block the majority of an over with their hands and bat miles away from their bodies..
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"I am sure Indian normality will be back for the 2nd test and whoever wins toss will win within 4 days..."
That is the million dollar question. As am not convinced if England win toss, that they will win the game. We will have to wait and see... !
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Vizag will definitely turn from ball 1 - in the recent India vs NZ ODI - India bowled NZ out for 79 and Mishra took 5/18 and Patel took 2/9
The toss will be crucial in this one i know our spinners really bowled well and in theory out bowled theirs but the true test will come if we lose the toss on a turner.
With regards India's opener situation (someone mentioned) - Raul is playing domestic cricket at the moment to prove his fitness for the 3rd Test (as India picked their squad for the 1st 2 tests) and scored a very easy 76 in the 1st dig apparently.
What does everyone think we will do with our side - will Jimmy come in? if so for who?
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Vizag will definitely turn from ball 1 - in the recent India vs NZ ODI - India bowled NZ out for 79 and Mishra took 5/18 and Patel took 2/9
The toss will be crucial in this one i know our spinners really bowled well and in theory out bowled theirs but the true test will come if we lose the toss on a turner.
With regards India's opener situation (someone mentioned) - Raul is playing domestic cricket at the moment to prove his fitness for the 3rd Test (as India picked their squad for the 1st 2 tests) and scored a very easy 76 in the 1st dig apparently.
What does everyone think we will do with our side - will Jimmy come in? if so for who?
right...well we are expecting a Bunsen and we are going to get one :) we are away....no complaints
I don't think jimmy is going to be risked this game. There's no one really to drop. Butler is on the sidelines no sign of him playing anytime soon.
we don't need anymore spinners in the team, or do we??
I don't think we do...but if we need 4 does Woakes drop out?
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I think England will keep the same side...
And India possibly may look at 2 changes. Gambhir out for Rahul...
Mishra out for a recognised batsmen, Nair?
As India may back a 4 man attack to do the business on a turning wicket. And look to strengthen batting instead.
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i actually think both sides will be unchanged.
i don't think England will risk Jimmy..... the only possibility would be if Stokes really is knackered and if he can't bowl then things would need to change.
India is an interesting one though as Gambhir looked really out of nick but Rahul's domestic game doesn't finish till Wednesday so i can't see him playing. As for Mishra i think he will play as the pitch is going to really turn and they trust Ashwin to bat at 6.
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If its a bunsen burner India will play the extra batsmen. Kohli said the only reason they played 5 bowlers was because the wicket a bit green.
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Yup, as in all 3 test matches v NZ, due to the turning wickets, india played 4 bowlers only. And Mishra was nowhere to be seen.
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that would be a big call considering his side have just been hit for 500+ and 250 declared - a realise it will be a harder batting track in Vizag but still an interesting decision
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What do people think about Ansari? I'm really undecided, I felt he bowled a bit too full and quite floaty and I feel that Batty may provide a little more nous.
However, to contradict myself, I think I'd persevere with him to see if he can winkle batters out as very much our third spinner.
Is Saqlain actually out there working with them? I would have thought someone might have got into his ear about pushing it through a little quicker on that last day?
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with their right handers he's going away from them which should be harder to play. He's def behind rash and moeen yes but Ansari can bat.
I know we don't need 11 batsmen in the side but it helps we bat deep, we (think) we are about the hit the mother of all turners in the next game, we can't have any sort of tail.
Saqlain has been working with all the bowlers, Rashid gave him a lot of praise in the interviews post match.
If it really is going to spin early then England might think of leaving out a seamer and playing Batty too. that would be 4 twirlies....
but if we leave out a seamer Stokes workload would increase. I don't think they want that to happen.
tricky....
I think we will be unchanged for Thursday.
**to correct that if we leave out a seamer Stokesy's workload could potentially increase***
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What do people think about Ansari? I'm really undecided, I felt he bowled a bit too full and quite floaty and I feel that Batty may provide a little more nous.
However, to contradict myself, I think I'd persevere with him to see if he can winkle batters out as very much our third spinner.
Is Saqlain actually out there working with them? I would have thought someone might have got into his ear about pushing it through a little quicker on that last day?
From interviews I have seen/heard, Mushy has really taken a hands on approach since 1st test in Bangladesh. According to a few Rashid has had problems being allowed to set his own fields for both Morgan and Cook.
Gillespie in the big bash and in England put the emphasis on Rashid sorting his own fields out and bowling to them.
Mushy seems to think out spinners are "thinking " to much and haven't been attacking enough. Personally I think it's Mushy is spot on because Rashid under Gillespie was a different animal compared to when he has played for England. I think we saw in the 1st test how Rashid seemed to have more input into what fields he had than in previous 2 years...
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i quite like Ansari, i just think he is very inexperienced and needs time. I thought he definitely bowled too slowly for that wicket and test cricket in general, but like i said he is still young.... Mo has said a number of times it took him quite a while to actually work out the pace to bowl for test cricket etc...
I also think it was telling that Cook gave him the ball 1st on a couple of occasions before the other spinners so he obviously trusts him.
He gives the spin attack a lot of balance and the Indians are packed with RHB - even more so when Rahul probably replaces Gambhir (next or 3rd test).
As for Saqlain, Mo and Rashid both said in interviews he hasn't worked on anything technical it has been about mind set, being relaxed, what fields to set and when to set them, and most importantly enjoying bowling spin in India.
Which i see as the biggest difference in Rashid he looks so much more relaxed and therefore is able to get through his action more.
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Whether Moeen and Rashid out bowled Ashwin and Jadeja(Ansari and Mishra were both terrible) is a mute point. Moeen and Rashid had the luxury of bowling with 550 on the board. I don't care how good a batting team you are, you are under pressure. Just look at the bizarre manner in which Rahane got out in both innings(and he's there best player in the last 12-18 months). We saw in Bangladesh in low scoring matches Moeen and Rashid struggled with the expectation to win matches. And both still bowled more than a few pies in the match just concluded. Finally India's spin twins might've been under cooked. IIRC neither played the NZ ODIs. Both bowled plenty in Rajkot so should be in better rhythm in the second Test.
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Whether Moeen and Rashid out bowled Ashwin and Jadeja(Ansari and Mishra were both terrible) is a mute point. Moeen and Rashid had the luxury of bowling with 550 on the board. I don't care how good a batting team you are, you are under pressure. Just look at the bizarre manner in which Rahane got out in both innings(and he's there best player in the last 12-18 months). We saw in Bangladesh in low scoring matches Moeen and Rashid struggled with the expectation to win matches. And both still bowled more than a few pies in the match just concluded. Finally India's spin twins might've been under cooked. IIRC neither played the NZ ODIs. Both bowled plenty in Rajkot so should be in better rhythm in the second Test.
Any spinner needs runs on the board thou surely Felix? ashwin and the rest and coming behind a powerhouse batting line up, India don't get rolled for 200 much.
and when we had Swann, a lot of the time we had racked up some pretty big totals thanks to cook,strauss,kp and bell and trott sometimes.
they are not going to be successful trying to bowl defending low scores
Warne and Murali were different, standard test spinners needs runs behind them don't they?
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Any spinner needs runs on the board thou surely Felix? ashwin and the rest and coming behind a powerhouse batting line up, India don't get rolled for 200 much.
and when we had Swann, a lot of the time we had racked up some pretty big totals thanks to cook,strauss,kp and bell and trott sometimes.
they are not going to be successful trying to bowl defending low scores
Warne and Murali were different, standard test spinners needs runs behind them don't they?
What I was saying it that Rashid and Moeen's performances shouldn't be expected as the norm. On a raging turner I don't think anyone will score 550 against India. South Africa can't and are plenty decent.
On a square turner the bowlers have to build their own pressure on the batsmen and in Bangladesh the above mentioned couldn't do it
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What I was saying it that Rashid and Moeen's performances shouldn't be expected as the norm. On a raging turner I don't think anyone will score 550 against India. South Africa can't and are plenty decent.
On a square turner the bowlers have to build their own pressure on the batsmen and in Bangladesh the above mentioned couldn't do it
Are we talking current SA or the all conquering SA team of 5 years or so ago? I don't think the current SA batting line up (bar Amla and an increasingly injured/disinterested looking AB) is much to write home about to be honest, I don't think either opener, Duminy, Faf or DeKock would get in the current England side, I'm maybe being harsh on young Quintin, probably a better gloveman than YJB but I don't think he's a better test match batter.
EDIT: As Duckett is so green I guess you'd take Faf at 4 over him at this moment in time.
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Are we talking current SA or the all conquering SA team of 5 years or so ago? I don't think the current SA batting line up (bar Amla and an increasingly injured/disinterested looking AB) is much to write home about to be honest, I don't think either opener, Duminy, Faf or DeKock would get in the current England side, I'm maybe being harsh on young Quintin, probably a better gloveman than YJB but I don't think he's a better test match batter.
De Kock has Bairstow covered rather easily TBH. England have three/four better keepers
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De Kock has Bairstow covered rather easily TBH. England have three/four better keepers
You think? Keepers aren't just picked on keeping post-Gilchrist though are they, they have to be keeper/batters and for my money out of all the current test match keepers (all nations), JB is the best batter. I agree that QDK is the better gloveman though and also that if it was white ball cricket I'd probably take DeKock, Sarfraz or Buttler over YJB.
EDIT can't believe I left Dhoni out that white ball list haha
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De kock would walk into the England side.
He could easily be keeper batsman and bairstow take the number 5 spot.
Or be a sole batsman at 5!
He's one of the best batsman across all formats at mo and to say he wouldn't get in our side is ridiculous.
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I will be very disappointed if Vizag and future test venues dont produce pitches that suit India. Rajkot was an ODI pitch. Take the home advantage and dont miss the opportunity to win because when India start travelling they will get pitches which dont suit them for sure. Thats the reality!
Even though England spinners gave an impression of being decent which was mainly because of the run deficit and not actual spinning abilities, its also about application. With 500+ on the board, Indian spinners would have ripped through opposition batting for less than 250. They know how to bowl on these pitches. You could be very good in Yorkshire but Yorkshire is not in India.
England should have got Swann as coach/consultant on this series rather have him cover a test series in which England is not even playing. When he toured India, it looked like he knew how to bowl and could pass that knowledge to inexperienced English bowlers.
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De kock would walk into the England side.
He could easily be keeper batsman and bairstow take the number 5 spot.
Or be a sole batsman at 5!
He's one of the best batsman across all formats at mo and to say he wouldn't get in our side is ridiculous.
QDK is the best overall package keeper out there at the moment.
YJB keeping is improving but it isn't near De Kock's and their batting at the mo is relatively similar.
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De kock would walk into the England side.
He could easily be keeper batsman and bairstow take the number 5 spot.
Or be a sole batsman at 5!
He's one of the best batsman across all formats at mo and to say he wouldn't get in our side is ridiculous.
I'm not knocking him at all, it's obvious how talented he is, I'm just saying that in my opinion at the moment if I could only pick one or the other I'd pick Bairstow to keep wicket and bat at 7 in a Test match, same as I'd pick Mo over Duminy and Cook over either of their current openers.
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If we were picking a world XI right now, no doubt at all that YJB would have the gloves. He would be close to making it at as a batsman.
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If we were picking a world XI right now, no doubt at all that YJB would have the gloves. He would be close to making it at as a batsman.
Sarfraz would be first choice TBH. Superb keeper and his street fighter batting style has transformed Pakistan
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If we were picking a world XI right now, no doubt at all that YJB would have the gloves. He would be close to making it at as a batsman.
He would although QdC is not far behind this season!
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Sarfraz would be first choice TBH. Superb keeper and his street fighter batting style has transformed Pakistan
Nope. Just, nope.
Sarfraz is decent. But he makes as many errors with the gloves as YJB but doesn't make the huge runs.
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He would although QdC is not far behind this season!
De Kick is 100% of the keeper and 80% the batsman. A year, two from now he gets the gloves and Jonny plays s a batsman.
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De Kock is 100% of the keeper and 80% the batsman. A year, two from now he gets the gloves and Jonny plays s a batsman.
So we are assuming De Kock's batting will improve, while Barstow's keeping will remain stagnant for the next 2 years?
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So we are assuming De Kock's batting will improve, while Barstow's keeping will remain stagnant for the next 2 years?
De Kock is a lot younger than Bairstow in fairness, plus his batting average is currently 10 points higher, what'll happen if he improves?!
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So we are assuming De Kock's batting will improve, while Barstow's keeping will remain stagnant for the next 2 years?
No, there will come a time when a) you want both of them in there and b) YJB's knees and back make it imperative that he plays as a specialist batsman.
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De Kock is in my team over Bairstow every day of the week and twice on Sundays
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Anyway, back on subject again!!
Evidently they are happy with the way Anderson is bowling in the nets but the team is likely to be unchanged for the 2nd Test.
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Anyway, back on subject again!!
Evidently they are happy with the way Anderson is bowling in the nets but the team is likely to be unchanged for the 2nd Test.
Phew, yes let's get back on track. I can't read anything saying De Cock without giggling. Yes I know it's not very grown up :)
right.....unchanged you say, have you got inside information?
how can we leave out someone with 400 test wickets?
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De Kock? Ramdin? :)
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Interesting India have added KL Rahul to their squad for the 2nd test he is currently playing domestic cricket with the match ending tomorrow - although his duties have finished really 76 and then 102 in the 2nd innings!
I think Gambhir might be a dead man walking.
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Interesting India have added KL Rahul to their squad for the 2nd test he is currently playing domestic cricket with the match ending tomorrow - although his duties have finished really 76 and then 102 in the 2nd innings!
I think Gambhir might be a dead man walking.
Rahul is not due to be available until 3rd test. are India panicking?
Gambhir can't play anything short, some of the CBF net bowlers would have him in trouble.
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Gambhir can't play anything short, some of the CBF net bowlers would have him in trouble.
Whether they meant to or not ;) :D
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haha
it's the head high beamers that cause the problems
any that's just my 'bowling'
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Kumble confirmed Rahul will be play but didn't guarantee Gambhir has been axed...maybe Mishra will get jettisoned and India will play an extra batsman
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Gahmbir can't play anything short, some of the CBF net bowlers would have him in trouble.
The third umpire might notice everyone bowling off 18 yards when he checked for a no ball though... ;)
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Kumble confirmed Rahul will be play but didn't guarantee Gambhir has been axed...maybe Mishra will get jettisoned and India will play an extra batsman
Mishra was pretty average in the first, but sure he cleaned up new Zealand at the same ground last month
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Kumble confirmed Rahul will be play but didn't guarantee Gambhir has been axed...maybe Mishra will get jettisoned and India will play an extra batsman
If that did happen whats the order going to be?
Surely if Rahul comes in he has to open? then the next 3 pick themselves really don't they, so that leaves Gambhir batting at 6? You might as well pick someone else to bat at 6 who is more specialist there surely.
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If that did happen whats the order going to be?
Surely if Rahul comes in he has to open? then the next 3 pick themselves really don't they, so that leaves Gambhir batting at 6? You might as well pick someone else to bat at 6 who is more specialist there surely.
Let's be honest Kumble has probably already dropped Gambhir. If they play an extra batsman it would be someone else
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Anyway, back on subject again!!
Evidently they are happy with the way Anderson is bowling in the nets but the team is likely to be unchanged for the 2nd Test.
If Anderson is match ready he should play in place of Woakes as it seems pointless to include a player who did nothing with the bat and took one wicket in 35 plus overs and that was the wicket of an out of form Returning player.
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If Anderson is match ready he should play in place of Woakes as it seems pointless to include a player who did nothing with the bat and took one wicket in 35 plus overs and that was the wicket of an out of form Returning player.
Zzzzzzzzzz
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Also went at less than 2 an over didn't he? It's a test match and about creating pressur certainly out of the seamers he bowled the best and created pressure
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Also went at less than 2 an over didn't he? It's a test match and about creating pressur certainly out of the seamers he bowled the best and created pressure
totally agree on this
as skipper, u want to be able to have an element of control over proceedings. and woakes certainly did that.
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Also went at less than 2 an over didn't he? It's a test match and about creating pressur certainly out of the seamers he bowled the best and created pressure
Take your point but
Pressure containment rarely wins 5 day test matches you need guys who can get 20 wickets
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Woakes hid the ball in the first match. He didn't get an reverse. Anderson bowling 75mph will be more threatening than Woakes bowling 3ft outside off peg
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so Anderson back in? is that view of us lot? easy this selection business :)
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so Anderson back in? is that view of us lot? easy this selection business :)
Yes Kohli is his bitch
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I would give Anderson until Mohali, at which pont he comes in for Ansari. Then when they go back to the spinners, I might be tempted to give Broad and Woakes one rest each.
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I read it over someones shoulder on the train home from london today. could have been the standard or another paper? but def said unchanged for england team?
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Vizag will turn from day one, going to be all about the spinners there. Mohali will have a bit more grass and offer some assistance to the seamers. Let Anderson sit on the sidelines for one more game.
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Seems as if Woakes may have a niggle. Looks as if Anderson will play.
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Seems as if Woakes may have a niggle. Looks as if Anderson will play.
a convienient niggle to get Jimmy in?......or 'rotation' under a different name..
:)
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I was thinking the same thing
I hope Anderson comes out all guns blazing and not just going through the motions
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I was thinking the same thing
I hope Anderson comes out all guns blazing and not just going through the motions
let's be honest, it's going to spin, we got 3 spinners they are all going to play. so maybe his workload can be managed in this match.
Jimmy has been brilliant for us I really do hope he get's over this injury 100 per cent
I don't recall ever seeing a more skilful bowler play for us....
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i really hope Jimmy comes in for Woakes - not because i think Woakes needs to be dropped, i think he bowled brilliantly last test - i think he needs a rest and also it would be good for Jimmy to have a game before Mohali (where it will be more seamer friendly) to get any cobwebs out etc...
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But if it is going to spin, what do we need Jimmy for? With Woakes, he is worth that spot for his batting - well, Jimmy is never going to be honoured in that way. So, if we want someone to bowl a few overs with the new ball, it makes more sense to pick Ball. Will give him some valuable experience, protect out most valuable asset and...well, if the pitch is liable to cracking, Ball's height would actually be more suitable.
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Seems as if Woakes may have a niggle. Looks as if Anderson will play.
I didn't know @Seniorplayer was involved in team selection! ;)
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I didn't know @Seniorplayer was involved in team selection! ;)
That'd be "Woakes has been forcibly retired" surely?
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let's be honest, it's going to spin, we got 3 spinners they are all going to play. so maybe his workload can be managed in this match.
Jimmy has been brilliant for us I really do hope he get's over this injury 100 per cent
I don't recall ever seeing a more skilful bowler play for us....
In my lifetime Fred Truman
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I didn't know @Seniorplayer was involved in team selection! ;)
Ha ha good one Cam made me smile.
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If Woakes does have a niggle, then I would rather see Ball in for the 2nd Test.
They need to look after Anderson and want to bring him back for the 3rd Test. So continue with that plan and give Ball a Test - look what happened in Bangladesh...they guy was fantastic!
If Ball gets another 5fer then that will be a great dilemma to have for the 3rd Test!
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Ha ha good one Cam made me smile.
he's a card that young Cam !!!!
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In my lifetime Fred Truman
I play with a guy from Yorkshire (batley) at my club in London, I once asked him who was our best seam bowler and he said Trueman, and Fred would of told you he was as well !
:)
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I play with a guy from Yorkshire (batley) at my club in London, I once asked him who was our best seam bowler and he said Trueman, and Fred would of told you he was as well !
:)
Imagine being be a fly On the Yorkshire Dressing room wall listening to Fred Truman Brian Close Ray Iilingsworth and Geoff Boycottt talking tactics
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Anderson fit and good to go and apparently Woakes has a knee niggle so the correct term is 'rested'
Set your alarms for 4am lads.
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Yep...lets hope the ECB are providing the coin, we need some luck but i have a good feeling about this game
:)
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Yep...lets hope the ECB are providing the coin, we need some luck but i have a good feeling about this game
:)
Yes it's a win the toss and bat track batting last will be difficult
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I honestly think the away side automatically should win the toss.
And he's before anyone posts about green seamers in England, yes give the visiting team the toss in England too!!
:)
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I honestly think the away side automatically should win the toss.
And he's before anyone posts about green seamers in England, yes give the visiting team the toss in England too!!
:)
TEST CHOICE
1st Visiting team
2nd Team that lost the 1st Test
3rd Team that lost the 2nd Test
etc, etc.
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B R O A D Y
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J I M M Y
22-2, pinch me!
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Reckon woakes would break this p......... oh
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Pitch looks like it's going to turn square by tomorrow. Looks like it's game over unless England have an amazing afternoon session
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Oh dear rashid! Can't afford to drop kohli
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Looks like we're in for a tonking then
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Dog stops play. Could this be more village.
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Dog stops play. Could this be more village.
Highlight of the days play is a dog defecating on the pitch. I love cricket. :D
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Thought Rashid bowled well in the first game, looks like hes back bowling filth. India have done well to take the spinners on this match.
100s up for both pujara and kohli
Getting desperate when you start appealing for LBW when it comes straight off the middle
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OH JIMMY JIMMY!
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yes Jimmy......
right into the tail now :( :D ;) :o
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This Kohli worship is getting on my tits. Rashid tosses one up and Kolhi has a big swipe and gets a thick edge and catchable height through point. Could of gone anywhere. All I hear is Kohli played that cleverly, broke the wrists on it etc etc. Total bs.
Maybe Rashid should keep giving it air and do them in the flight like most normal spinners might when it's not turning much (apart from the one that ripped just now).
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This Kohli worship is getting on my tits. Rashid tosses one up and Kolhi has a big swipe and gets a thick edge and catchable height through point. Could of gone anywhere. All I hear is Kohli played that cleverly, broke the wrists on it etc etc. Total bs.
Maybe Rashid should keep giving it air and do them in the flight like most normal spinners might when it's not turning much (apart from the one that ripped just now).
At last someone agrees with me. Let's be honest.. It's another slow flat track with occasional ball keeping low where if your height is 5ft 1 then it's easy enough to jab ur bat down on it.
He is an excellent player of spin and at times looks majestic but he has an ego where he really thinks he can play the short ball. Against NZ and here against England I would say he has NOT been in control of the majority of short balls.
His record in England and on seaming wickets need to improve dramatically before I would class him as a top test player.
Before the abuse starts.. Lol
He is one of the best one day players I have seen when chasing a total since GOD. (Neil Harvey Fairbrother) and that Bevan bloke in " canary yellow "
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This Kohli worship is getting on my tits. Rashid tosses one up and Kolhi has a big swipe and gets a thick edge and catchable height through point. Could of gone anywhere. All I hear is Kohli played that cleverly, broke the wrists on it etc etc. Total bs.
Maybe Rashid should keep giving it air and do them in the flight like most normal spinners might when it's not turning much (apart from the one that ripped just now).
I prefer Pujara and Rahane
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At last someone agrees with me. Let's be honest.. It's another slow flat track with occasional ball keeping low where if your height is 5ft 1 then it's easy enough to jab ur bat down on it.
He is an excellent player of spin and at times looks majestic but he has an ego where he really thinks he can play the short ball. Against NZ and here against England I would say he has NOT been in control of the majority of short balls.
His record in England and on seaming wickets need to improve dramatically before I would class him as a top test player.
Before the abuse starts.. Lol
He is one of the best one day players I have seen when chasing a total since GOD. (Neil Harvey Fairbrother) and that Bevan bloke in " canary yellow "
For me you have to completely split Kohli the ODI batsman and Kohli the Test match batsman they don't compare to each other at all.
IMHO - Pujura is their best batter easily
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For me you have to completely split Kohli the ODI batsman and Kohli the Test match batsman they don't compare to each other at all.
IMHO - Pujura is their best batter easily
Only seen Pujura in these last 2 home series and he really seems to have a problem with the short ball but the way he plays spin is right up there with vv laxman...
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For me Kohli is fine on spinning / flat wickets. As soon as you get any movement around off stump he's struggling. I'm sure he'll crack it eventually but he'll struggle in england/nz/sa in particular.
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About time they take the new ball. The spinners haven't looked a threat at all or kept it tight
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For me Kohli is fine on spinning / flat wickets. As soon as you get any movement around off stump he's struggling. I'm sure he'll crack it eventually but he'll struggle in england/nz/sa in particular.
Proved it with the last couple of balls pitching and moving could have been caught
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JIMMY
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WTF is Rahane doing?
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oh wow the new ball worked, go figure!
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What was rehane thinking three overs left on day one playing at a wide one
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oh wow the new ball worked, go figure!
I must admit that for a while I thought Captain Cook was getting better with his fields, bowling options and changes but the last 5 test matches he has had a shocker that TBH have cost us games.
I would still keep him in the team but think it's time to give the captaincy to Stokesy!!
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I always suspected that this is win the toss, 99% win the game.
We will have to be very lucky and bat out of our skins to win on this wicket - it'll only get worse!!
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I always suspected that this is win the toss, 99% win the game.
We will have to be very lucky and bat out of our skins to win on this wicket - it'll only get worse!!
Agree entirely Pete.. I expect us to lose but I want to see how close to the 5th day we can get.
Biggest factor for me though is how we play the spin. Hopefully, the lunging forward with bat out well in front of pad and play the dot ball has gone. Using the crease and attempting to take singles if the ball isn't short or full.enough to punish.
Still want to see YJB and Stokesy bat together because Stokesy seems to lose his train of thought and just goes toe to toe with YJB till one of the gets themselves out. Lol
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Close of Play Day 1 in 1st Test England were 311/4 so virtually identical as India today - major difference is this pitch sounds like it is going to do a lot more a lot quicker - this is going to be a proper test for our batters
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I think Eng will be able to bat decently the first time around but 2nd innings/5th day will be the real test of their progress
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Real shame England lost the toss.
Was very keen on wanting to see how the Indians would fare batting last here.
I do definitely feel, England will crumble under the weight of scoreboard pressure. That's my prediction.
Would be happy to be proven wrong though. :)
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The wicket is already showing its verables low bounce high bounce seam and spin its a watch the ball and let it come to you track.
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I think Eng will be able to bat decently the first time around but 2nd innings/5th day will be the real test of their progress
:) :)
I think we( BARMY ARMY!!) are going to be right up against it. this wicket will break up rapid.
this is the reason lots of us fans are not expecting miracles from this tour. Yes we played well in the first game where it only turned a bit.
this is going to go sideways very quickly and it's why it's so hard to win in India
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For me Kohli is fine on spinning / flat wickets. As soon as you get any movement around off stump he's struggling. I'm sure he'll crack it eventually but he'll struggle in england/nz/sa in particular.
What rubbish! Kohli has a fantastic record in both South Africa and New Zealand. Better than Root's in fact. Kohli's away record is actually far better than his home record. Something that he will rectify this home season. Only place he failed big time was those five tests in England.
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Cook's tactics where poor today. Ansari ahead of Moeen was a howler. Hussain said Kohli's been out to off spinners 20 times. And rather incredibly averages 150 odd against slow left arm...Kohli's money shot is the cover drive and at time Ansari fed it to him.
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Cook's tactics where poor today. Ansari ahead of Moeen was a howler. Hussain said Kohli's been out to off spinners 20 times. And rather incredibly averages 150 odd against slow left arm...Kohli's money shot is the cover drive and at time Ansari fed it to him.
For me your spot on. Also would have only given Rashid 4/5 overs and if no good turn go back.to your main spinners. Moeen has had success bowling as 1st spinner for last 2 years.. So why the change today? Also Batty over Ansari just because I think it's a lot ask of Ansari in bowling to the top 3/4 on a non turning wicket against 2 of the best players in the world when it comes to.playing spin...
I suppose with Woakes not playing Captain Cook has opted for the better batsman in Ansari...
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Cook's tactics where poor today. Ansari ahead of Moeen was a howler. Hussain said Kohli's been out to off spinners 20 times. And rather incredibly averages 150 odd against slow left arm...Kohli's money shot is the cover drive and at time Ansari fed it to him.
Yes missed an opportunity against Aswin who had just come in in the permulmate over by not having a slip preferring a cover fielder
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Yes missed an opportunity against Aswin who had just come in in the permulmate over by not having a slip preferring a cover fielder
Agree, have yet to be convinced by Ashwin as a no.6 the constantly going on the back foot guiding the ball through slip area or jumping forward with a big stride could / should work in India but anywhere else? Not for me...
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For those who missed the dog https://streamable.com/q01t
Best bit is when he decides to go for a number 1
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Agree, have yet to be convinced by Ashwin as a no.6 the constantly going on the back foot guiding the ball through slip area or jumping forward with a big stride could / should work in India but anywhere else? Not for me...
I read on Twitter that Ashwin was an opening batsman before he took up spin. His technique is solid but just more comfortable on the rear foot. And IMO no way should a biffer like Saha bat ahead of Ashwin
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I read on Twitter that Ashwin was an opening batsman before he took up spin. His technique is solid but just more comfortable on the rear foot. And IMO no way should a biffer like Saha bat ahead of Ashwin
I have also heard he was an opener but so was Stuart Broad. I have no idea who could replace Ashwin at 6 and Kohli certainly fancies him in.that position but for me he isn't a 6.. Time will tell of course, if India ever play a 5 match series out of Asia...
The words " rocking horse" and " S##t" spring to mind..n
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Just investigating Mr Broad's record in Asia... and its quite awful:
Broad….
India:
filtered 2008-2016 5 7 120.0 26 416 4 1/39 2/134 104.00 3.46 180.0 0 0
Sri lanka:
filtered 2007-2012 2 3 68.0 10 199 3 1/33 2/104 66.33 2.92 136.0 0 0
Its shocking in India… 180 strike rate!
Surprised he "always makes the team"
And no fans are even questioning it?
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Broad has 20 wickets at 23 in UAE so it's not like he can't bowl in subcontinental conditions(or Middle East if you prefer)
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I think the conditions in UAE differ from those in Asia.
I am not convinced his suited to Asia wickets. Lets see if he proves that wrong.
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For me Kohli is fine on spinning / flat wickets. As soon as you get any movement around off stump he's struggling. I'm sure he'll crack it eventually but he'll struggle in england/nz/sa in particular.
Who doesnt struggle? first session of first test , Cook struggled on a flat pitch Indian pitch. Second test aus vs SA, i guess every batter was dancing like a village cricketer.
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Just an observation but broad bowls quite open chested and into the pads which makes it easier for batsman to work to leg in Indian conditions. The most successful seam bowlers channel a line outside off stump.
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Can some please tell Michael blooming Vaughan ansari has played two test matches and Rashid about 8
Default position:blame the spinners, dog has had a dump on the pitch:blame the spinners.
He really gets on my wick, we are going to be in trouble in this match the Indian spinners know the conditions and are good bowlers, we are not as good as them in that dept!
:)
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Cook definitely made the wrong decision last evening by not taking the new ball earlier and attacking. This morning it's not moved at all.
Rashid's drop continues to cost...if kohli gets to 200, it would be his 3rd of the year! Also probably one of the fittest cricketers going around, seen the likes of AB cramp up in Indian conditions but Kohli carries on sprinting those singles.
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Looks like I jinxed kohli :D. All part of the plan from stokes - drops ashwin the ball before allowing the single and catches kohli the very next ball
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Mo picking uo 3 this morning, the inevitable sign of things to come..
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Good stuff from stokes!! This score could of been much worse for england
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Just investigating Mr Broad's record in Asia... and its quite awful:
Broad….
India:
filtered 2008-2016 5 7 120.0 26 416 4 1/39 2/134 104.00 3.46 180.0 0 0
Sri lanka:
filtered 2007-2012 2 3 68.0 10 199 3 1/33 2/104 66.33 2.92 136.0 0 0
Its shocking in India… 180 strike rate!
Surprised he "always makes the team"
And no fans are even questioning it?
From what I saw yesterday and his fielding is morning, broad doesn't even look remotely fit! Should have played ball or woakes instead.
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I'll repeat myself from a month ago and reiterate that his winter is going to be a rude awakening for all the people clamouring for Rashid or anyone else to replace Moeen.
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455 all out I think England will be happy to not let India get to 500 after yesterday
Over to the batsmen!
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I'll repeat myself from a month ago and reiterate that his winter is going to be a rude awakening for all the people clamouring for Rashid or anyone else to replace Moeen.
though Dilly has clearly been our best spinner in India...
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Used to love knocking off stump out the ground.
I'd go mental if I snapped it in half! Pace from shami!
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Wow what a start fromshami! Cook gone
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though Dilly has clearly been our best spinner in India...
It's a crappy prediction if I wait for the series to end isn't it? ;)
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Used to love knocking off stump out the ground.
I'd go mental if I snapped it in half! Pace from shami!
Poor technique from cook. Going are the ball rather than letting it come to him. He could learn a lot from haseeb. lol... But true
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Without stating the obvious :)
one of our lads is going to need a big ton and hameed to bat forever
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It's a crappy prediction if I wait for the series to end isn't it? ;)
I was actually kind of agreeing with you. Rashid has been our best bowler but he doesn't offer the first innings (non sub continent) overs that Ali does, nor has he yet made anything ike the runs to justify consideration as a batting all rounder.
Moeen's place in the team is safe for a long time to come. Question is, will they play both in a six man four all-rounder attack?
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Hameed is single handedly going to save test cricket
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Sold down the river
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Ah
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I was actually kind of agreeing with you. Rashid has been our best bowler but he doesn't offer the first innings (non sub continent) overs that Ali does, nor has he yet made anything ike the runs to justify consideration as a batting all rounder.
Moeen's place in the team is safe for a long time to come. Question is, will they play both in a six man four all-rounder attack?
If Rashid bowls well this winter then I wouldn't mind if they just swap Ansari for Woakes when they travel back to England and leave the rest of the XI as it is. Stokes, Woakes, Broad and Anderson plus two spinners has every option covered but I feel like they'd also drop Rashid and play the extra batsman.
Root seems to be struggling to pick up Jadeja's length right now, could see an LBW with his feet trapped on the crease.
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Very poor from root that they had almost crossed....
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Duckett showing an issue there with his front leg still well outside leg stump. He needs to work on that or will struggle at test level.
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Massive flaw in Duckett's technique against spin, needs to sort that out or he's not going to get any runs.
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His technique is fine, he just doesn't want to get his new pads dirty.
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Duckett needs to get the front leg forward and straight not sidewards in defence as this exposes his off stump also his bat goes with his front leg towards the legside rather than coming down straight in line with the ball.
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Poor poor shot from Root there
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In trouble now. Root looked like he was trying to get out the last 40 mins and taking others with him. Big trouble now
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No need to play like that Joe.
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It's a good job we still have woakes to come... oh wait..
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Oh dear England struggling against spin again. Bit different when the pitch actually turns a little unlike the first test.
Anyone else think that Yadav's action looks a tad suspect? Pretty surprised he's not wearing a long sleeve top like all spinners these days
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Root didn't look comfortable against the spinners at all and it only became even more obvious once Moeen started batting at the other end. I don't fancy Bairstow against Jadeja so it's all on these two
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Jinxed him :D :(
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It's a good job we still have woakes to come... oh wait..
ive no doubt Woakes is as fit as a butchers dog, or at least the dog that was on the pitch yesterday
and Broad don't look fit....
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5 down with an hour's play to go, suspect another 2 wickets before close of play. Don't see stokes lasting too long
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Oh I do love a good England collapse, the world wouldn't be the same without one :D
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8 off 44
This is what test match cricket is all about
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we have gone here big time
it all started with a run-out too-totally unneccesary
funny how the game goes like that to bite you in the gonads.
give away a wicket and the cricket gods punish you
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Such joy :D :D :D :D
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consolation for those whose glass is half full in life
'we are not as bad as Australia'
:)
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consolation for those whose glass is half full in life
'we are not as bad as Australia'
:)
That's right we can can play the moving ball
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close of play...phew!!!
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With the way the wicket is deteriorating I can see England following on.
I predict that the top order will manage to apply themselves a little better but still can't see them reaching the Indian total!
This is the wicket I would have liked to have seen England bat first, as I was interested in seeing how India would bat on a deteriorating wicket but it was not to be!
Shame Hameed got run out! And Duckett doesn't sound as though he is having a great time in these conditions even though people seemed to think that he could thrive in spinning conditions? From what I have seen of Duckett, he doesn't seem to like playing defensively?
So do the selectors show patience for Duckett even though his defensive technique in these conditions seems to looks a tad suspect, and give Buttler a game or two?
Or do they continue to stick by Duckett and give him several more Tests?
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Give duckett more games but have a strong word with him,
I think although this has been a collapse yes, the fact everyone was saying 5-0 and this will happen in every game why are we all shocked?
The joy of England they have these every so often and so seem to learn for the rest of the series! India might win this game but I don't think the rest of the series will be as bad!! Or at least I hope not anyway
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@petehosk Dropping Duckett because he doesn't like defending and bringing in Buttler (the most aggressive batsman in the squad) seems a bit back to front haha :D
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@petehosk Dropping Duckett because he doesn't like defending and bringing in Buttler (the most aggressive batsman in the squad) seems a bit back to front haha :D
I am not suggesting this - I am just putting the discussion out there.
And Buttler has get quite a decent defensive game in most conditions - I have seen Buttler defend for long periods before going on the attack.
So What I am asking is a legit question.
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we are on a Bunsen in away conditions, this was always going to be tough, we are going to have to battle, as long as we try to do that it's fine-show some fight like Stokes does......
Duckett has to learn, this is as hard as it gets, the lad has talent.
he stays leg side of the ball, as a lot do who excel in one dayers(hales was the same)
if you look at hameed he has a slightly open stance but is more side on. Hameed steps into the shot, Duckett remains leg side of the ball, so you can see more of the stumps
we have coaches they need to help him
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I am not suggesting this - I am just putting the discussion out there.
And Buttler has get quite a decent defensive game in most conditions - I have seen Buttler defend for long periods before going on the attack.
So What I am asking is a legit question.
I'm just teasing Pete, not having a go mate :) Personally I think we should persevere with Duckett for a good while, the lad's got bags of talent
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i worry about Duckett.... it is ok saying give the lad time, he has talent etc.... but that way to bat is completely insane against big turning off spin - especially Ashwin who has the straight one as well so he has no clue how much it's turning, he leaves himself only a few shot options etc...
as he has tried batting like that since he arrived in Bangladesh i wonder what the coaches are doing with him in the nets, because it clearly isn't working.
also i don't think India would make us follow on (if/when they get the chance). There's still 3 days left.
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I'm just teasing Pete, not having a go mate :) Personally I think we should persevere with Duckett for a good while, the lad's got bags of talent
He has indeed..
ramprakash needs to get busy working with him. we have good coaches sometimes they are needed.
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also i don't think India would make us follow on (if/when they get the chance). There's still 3 days left.
Was thinking the same - would indicate how brave he is! You wouldn't want to bat on day 5 on this wicket if it's already started to go on day 2!!
But would Kholi play safe and bat for a day to put on a bigger total?
I'm just teasing Pete, not having a go mate :) Personally I think we should persevere with Duckett for a good while, the lad's got bags of talent
I am not against Duckett either - I also think he has bags of talent but not convinced that his game is ideal for this wicket. And as I said, I do think that Buttler has a half-decent defensive game and would bat better in the circumstances! The fact that Duckett did not seem to change his game at all, even though the circumstances dictated that he should have reigned his batting in a little is a little concerning. This indicates that he is not a thinking cricketer?
My view is that Duckett should be given more time and coached! As people have said, the talent is there but it needs to be nurtured!
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The wicket has not deteriorated that much Englands batsmen didn't apply themselves
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I think we need an extra right handed batsman in the line up. If India are now going to play two off spinners then we can't allow Ashwin to line up so many lefties. Bairstow at 4 with Buttler at 7 with the gloves.
That said India's debutant was pretty impressive. Pretty handy with the bat, looked sharp in the field and typically decent the ball. Shame the top order crumbled otherwise he could've targetted him and see what his tickers like.
Lucky Stokes is still there, anyone who missed it ball hit his stumps but the bails didn't dislodge, he's the form player and if he goes beast mode he could yet pull us out of a hole.
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I am not against Duckett either - I also think he has bags of talent but not convinced that his game is ideal for this wicket. And as I said, I do think that Buttler has a half-decent defensive game and would bat better in the circumstances! The fact that Duckett did not seem to change his game at all, even though the circumstances dictated that he should have reigned his batting in a little is a little concerning. This indicates that he is not a thinking cricketer?
My view is that Duckett should be given more time and coached! As people have said, the talent is there but it needs to be nurtured!
I haven't seen it yet, but Michael Vaughan on TMS was saying that he could see Duckett was starting to get his feet in line with the stumps more and it was only when Ashwin/Kohli had a leg slip in that he went back to giving himself room because he was conscious of the slip and getting too far across. Good bowling and messing with his head.
Seems like he's taking in the coaching and it's happening, but yes he needs time to let these technical changes bed in. Difficult when there is so little time between games and the back up batsmen may not be up to scratch.
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The wicket has not deteriorated that much Englands batsmen didn't apply themselves
Agreed, bounce has been a little variable at times but it's not a minefield by any stretch of the imagination. It's just been poor batting, and running, that has put England into this position.
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Me likey!!!! :D :D
Seeing the first inning, i guess Root is the only wicket India will have to target, rest will fall automatically.
Poor temperament, could be result of limited overs cricket.
This you would never see from KW or VK.
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we are on a Bunsen in away conditions, this was always going to be tough, we are going to have to battle, as long as we try to do that it's fine-show some fight like Stokes does......
Certainly not a bunsen, pitch is turning a little and staying low. They could have prepared a far worse pitch given what they've produced recently and what was seen in Bangladesh
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You're right the pitch has not really gone yet, England gave away some wickets yesterday and are batting with more application so far today
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I'm starting to think that a draw is unlikely... but not impossible.
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Its unlikely england will not lose any more wickets by the close but we can hang on -oh stokes gone!!
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England have applied themselves a lot better this morning. Still a long way off from india's score but the pitch doesn't appear to be that bad
Broad looks like he's going to miss the 3rd test. Woakes probably gets recalled after being "rested"
Is the only backup batsman ballance? I wouldn't play duckett or ballance. Need a right handed batsmen at 4
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The Ben Stokes dismissal, if there was an inside edge then he was caught. Don't understand why the 3rd umpire was checking for the inside edge?
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I think he hit it so out anyway, not sure why but the right decision either way
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England have applied themselves a lot better this morning. Still a long way off from india's score but the pitch doesn't appear to be that bad
Broad looks like he's going to miss the 3rd test. Woakes probably gets recalled after being "rested"
Is the only backup batsman ballance? I wouldn't play duckett or ballance. Need a right handed batsmen at 4
No if mohali is more seamer friendly one less spinner and butler in as a batsman maybe
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I reckon buttlers gonna get a game.
We need to bat well second innings
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Another poor decision from kumar! Seems to be a minimum of 2 per innings.
Poor broad...his face when there are no reviews left! Priceless
All out, another 5 wicket haul from ashwin. He's bowled really well
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No if mohali is more seamer friendly one less spinner and butler in as a batsman maybe
Would definitely drop ansari and duckett and get buttler and woakes back
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Would definitely drop ansari and duckett and get buttler and woakes back
Woakes will be back anyway Broad has a foot injury. He made way for Jimmy clearly but it lols like we 'rotated' the wrong player :)
You can't predict who will pick up an injury thou realistically. Ansari is the third spinner so it we don't need 3 next game prob will drop out. that's if Mohali does not spin as much as expected.
I also think the team looks stronger with Woakes in it, I'm a fan of his all round contribution.
I do think butler will play next game.
Tricky thing is if it spins do we pick another spinner because it's spinning or pick the better bowler regardless?
Woakes is a better bowler than ansari and better batsman.
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Batty should be playing.
Anyway.
We're DOOOOOOMED I TELL YOU DOOMED.
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Some poor umpiring again
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Rod tucker has forgot his hearing aid this session.....
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Not bad for a bowler who's injured. Nip one of these 2 and a chance at knocking them over cheaply. Then again a 200 run lead helps a little
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Was drs only on trial with a review after 2 tests or for the full series?
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That is class from Jimmy. Absolute class
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Jimmy hasn't lost it
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Brilliant bowling from Jimmy to get that ball toy come back in between Purjanas bat and pad
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Kohli's making it look far far too easy right now
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Kohli is pretty class at the mo!
Not that we are gonna win this, but I doubt we will win anything if we do t come up with a plan for him.
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England have applied themselves a lot better this morning. Still a long way off from india's score but the pitch doesn't appear to be that bad
Broad looks like he's going to miss the 3rd test. Woakes probably gets recalled after being "rested"
Is the only backup batsman ballance? I wouldn't play duckett or ballance. Need a right handed batsmen at 4
Broad playing in the next test is dependant on what his scans sent to the UK reveal.
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Broad playing in the next test is dependant on what his scans sent to the UK reveal.
Form the ecb
Stuart Broad has strained a tendon & one of the small joints in his right foot. He'll continue to bowl & be assessed after the Test #INDvENG[\quote]
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You can't predict who will pick up an injury thou realistically. Ansari is the third spinner so it we don't need 3 next game prob will drop out. that's if Mohali does not spin as much as expected.
Tricky thing is if it spins do we pick another spinner because it's spinning or pick the better bowler regardless?
I'd say Woakes for Broad. Buttler comes in as a different batting option - only question being whether we need four seamers, in which case Duckett goes, Ball comes in and Bairstow bats five, or whether we go:
Cook
Hameed
Root
Ali
Bairstow
Stokes
Duckett
Buttler
Woakes
Rashid
Anderson
With a fight on for the gloves.
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rasid bowled well this morning he has certianly improved based on the predicted 3rd test pitch If Broad is fit ansari out right hander Buttler in.
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Kohli is some player, like he was batting on a flat one in Bangalore rather than the heavily worn pitch in Vizag. Pujara's record looks impressive but his technique isn't anything special if you as me. A top order player who's been out bowled 24% of the time is poor and shows why he doesn't score runs outside Asia.
Broad and Anderson where outstanding but after that it was a non event.
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Have to agree with a lot of the comments and looks like we will need to fight back from one test down. Hopefully they stick with Duckett and he and Ramprakash as batting coach sort this technique of playing with just the bat to spin and leg out the way, never going to work.
Hope Ansari stays in the side, just a player a like watching and think he is a class young player, he won't get much test cricket in England this summer as we will only play Ali as a spinner
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Rumour has it Bayliss, Broad and Anderson were seen at the local markets buying up on Mithai ;)
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Bat out the overs and England win..simple right ;)
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Bit quiet on here. Where's @rickjames ?? Did you stay in bed.
So India set us 400, broad and Rashid with 4 fors. Only just got up so can't really say what the circumstances was(good bowling or slogging for target)
Kohli with 81, he's the big difference this test! May have been a lot closer affair had he been caught at fine leg on day 1!
I still say we will lose, but will be very happy if we can put 200 plus on 4thh innings and take it well into day 5.
If we push the Indians we can take some confidence into test 3
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I'm thankful to Kohli for not enforcing the follow on the make us lose by an innings!! Obviously I'd love us to win! But Batting 4th on this pitch won't be easy!
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Bat out the overs and England win..simple right ;)
At hameeds strike rate of 20, we could end up drawing at end of day 5 and he still won't be on hundred!
AND I'D BE MORE THAN HAPPY WITH THAT! Dignin boy.
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At hameeds strike rate of 20, we could end up drawing at end of day 5 and he still won't be on hundred!
AND I'D BE MORE THAN HAPPY WITH THAT! Dignin boy.
Baby Boycs
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A blockathon from baby boycs please 'all day long'
:)
And tommorow
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Bat for the win frist and if we can't then the draw
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Bat for the win frist and if we can't then the draw
Rest off team can bat round him. Currently Hammeed and cook just need to keep India in the field. 400 isn't a target regularly achieved.
So be a bit gung ho to just think "lets go boys, this will be easy"
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I would say that 6 or 7 batsmen would have to play out of their skin to get close to 400 on a deteriorating wicket.
So 455, 255 and then 204? 4th innings on this wicket should be 150-180.
Therefore a score of 230+ would at least be a moral victory.
I still would have liked to have seen how the scores woud have gone had England won the toss and batted first.
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It really is a remarkable effort from our bowlers to get us back with at least a chance of something out of this match.
Rashid continues to improve and has bowled really well with broad and Anderson.
I do think we are a better side with Woakes in it, I know that's a bit controversial on here :)
Would expect him back in for broad next match and then it's whether we need 3 spinners or 2....if it's 2 Butler maybe low down or perhaps Ball.....
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This is some proper test cricket from the openers here
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Touch wood I don't curse him, but if Baby Boycs batted for 10 + hours undefeated he could go on to become an England great
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Hameed has really gone exgavating here! Most of our players now wouldn't have survived bstting like this
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100 up for hameed!!!! (balls faced). Dig in my son. Dig in!
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100 up for both openers! Proper cricket this!
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I can't believe there will be anyone left who can't see this is the way to go in tests with Hameed
Whatever happens technically he is equipped to cope with opening. There's enough strokeplayer behind to play attacking cricket in any Country we play in.
Come on son show that gray Nichols full face.
Looks a nice bat actually :)
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Brilliant test match cricket this. Loving every ball
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DRS not popular with India here...
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Must be frustrating as technically both were out.
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Everyone on twitter saying drs will now be scrapped again in India after those 6balls.
It's not like they were over turned! They were given not out on field and stayed that way. Would have been same with or without drs.
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Cricket eh!!
You bat so well for so long and then get a dirty grubber off a ball.
He may have only scored 25, but he did well. Well batted hameed! Superstar in the making.
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1 down, decent grit from the youngster.
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Well batted and unlucky.
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Decent effort from Hammeed England have found themselves a proper opener ball kept low but bat was turned to leg rather than straight a straight bat would have saved him.
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Harsh to blame the kid for that!
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There's nothing worse than getting out to a ball like that. Excellent mental toughness shown from Hameed, he looks the part!
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Batted Chef. Dig in.
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Love that Ansari is being spoken of as a possible night watchman. That'd be some comedown.
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Have these umpires got no light meters ? :)
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Massive wicket before close
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Yeah that's a big blow it's been a great effort.
I dunno how Duckett is going to play in the morning but he must try to be positive, sitting and waiting will not work for him
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There's nothing worse than getting out to a ball like that. Excellent mental toughness shown from Hameed, he looks the part!
Hameeds had an unlucky match when batting but with the mental toughness he has shown it won't effect him.
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Love that Ansari is being spoken of as a possible night watchman. That'd be some comedown.
Coming in in the top for would be appropriate for his batting talent, night watchman or not
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Love that Ansari is being spoken of as a possible night watchman. That'd be some comedown.
Whatever floats your boat
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2 thing so read on twitter.
First, of the 6 longest(balls faced) opening partnerships in India for England. Cook and hammed feature twice.
Today is 6th and raijkot(352 balls) is the longest!
Second, someone commented on the way India celebrated hameeds wicket, they celebrated in a way that it'll it was a big big break through.
Something not seen when the likes of hales, Robson, lyth etc were gotten out.
Hameed matters and India know this!
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As a outsider, hameed has done well so far but he seems to have a problem with the short ball. Heard he was troubled in one of the warm up games in Bangladesh and already he's got hit a few times.
Don't want to get a reputation of struggling against the short ball
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Yeah that's a big blow it's been a great effort.
I dunno how Duckett is going to play in the morning but he must try to be positive, sitting and waiting will not work for him
"If in doubt reverse sweep" - his words not mine
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"If in doubt reverse sweep" - his words not mine
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb450/CPye061194/Screen%20Shot%202016-11-20%20at%2015.49.50_zpsfowktyof.png) (http://s1206.photobucket.com/user/CPye061194/media/Screen%20Shot%202016-11-20%20at%2015.49.50_zpsfowktyof.png.html)
Some of the replies are interesting
https://twitter.com/BenDuckett1/status/793019387837939713 (https://twitter.com/BenDuckett1/status/793019387837939713)
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This is going to be very tricky for him tommorow. At the moment there are holes in his technique, scoring runs fluently is his best form of defence.
But if he is out playing aggressive it will bring opinions from all round. That's where you need a strong mind.
You have to be true to yourself.
The way Stokes has played on the two tours (superbly) mixing defence and attack maybe is the way to copy.
Stokes by all accounts has put serious work into staying out there to begin with.
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Coming in in the top for would be appropriate for his batting talent, night watchman or not
I agree, he is certainly better than your average nightwatchman. I would have said - based on what I have seen in county cricket - that he is a batsman who turns his arm over rather than a frontline bowler who can hold a bat.
@Buzz I'd be interested to hear - regardless of the merits of selecting him as a bowler - where you'd bat him in the current England set up (with Woakes in the side).
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Whatever floats your boat
Ah c'mon, you have to love daft suggestions on commenttary!
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This is going to be very tricky for him tommorow. At the moment there are holes in his technique, scoring runs fluently is his best form of defence.
Makes you long for the olden days, when a young batsman would start off at six or seven to get used to the international game...
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Indeed that's exact how it was even for openers in county cricket coming into the team.
The modern game is different now thou the way in is thru one dayers and the Lions.
I hope we stick with Duckett all tour. Yes there is a problem with his defence(look at hameed 's stance today on Sky,(you can see pretty much off stump only).
We have coaches, Thorpe and ramprakash are there, they are the ones now who can improve him.
From what I have read about Duckett, he always had the talent and didn't dedicate himself to it liike he should of, then he clicked and changed his thinking, so he has put the work in previously...
We can't keep changing. Taylor(very unlucky) Vince, Compton, Ballance....
If Duckett does get dropped you gotta ask where next for a number 4?
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If Duckett does get dropped you gotta ask where next for a number 4?
There are plenty of potentials, but chopping and changing has to be a well considered process. At this stage, we have established that Duckett can play quality innins internationally; he did in the Bangladesh one dayers and again in the second test. We have estalished that he can be dismissed by a quality off spinner on turning pitches.
If he is not massively affected by it (in which case resting out a game or two could help) then stick with him. The ability is there, and things should come good.
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Keaton Jennings was very very unlucky not to be with the group..
Not sure the answer is really I have not seen anything in Duckett to suggest a test player is there yet but agree needs a good go in better conditions.
But we need a settled side and need to give people as long as possible.
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I would not change the batting personnel for the third test, just swap Duckett and Bairstow
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Keaton Jennings was very very unlucky not to be with the group..
Not sure the answer is really I have not seen anything in Duckett to suggest a test player is there yet but agree needs a good go in better conditions.
But we need a settled side and need to give people as long as possible.
There's a spot for him at the top of the Proteas order.
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The problem no.4 position. Formerly known as the problem no.3 position.
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To be fair it looks as though most slots are looking quite positive:
1-3 Cook, Hammed, Root
5-7 Ali (+spin) Stokes (A/R) Bairstow (W/K)
8-11 Bowlers - Woakes (Semi A/R) Broad, Anderson, Ball, Woods, Finn (not my pick), Rashid, Ansari, Batty, etc.
If you wanted to be picky, you could argue that we don't have a top class spinner (a la Warne) but Rashid seems to be proving himself well and Ali is pretty ok too.
We have loads of decent options for seam/pace so that's looking rather funky!
So we really need Duckett to step up to the mark and seal the number 4 spot. It could be a sleepless night for him and it is not going to be an easy wicket to bat on.
But a 50 from him tomorrow would start to make a rea case for him. And if he gets out, he had better make sure that it is due to an excellent ball from the bowler and not another very poor shot or technique!
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Moving past India, the side below gives 4 seamers, 2 spinners and in theory bats down to 9, plus batting in this order mixes the Lefties and the Righties up a bit better -
Cook
Hameed
Root
Duckett
Bairstow
Stokes
Moeen
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
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However - the imbalance in the 'next off the rank' options for seam against spin are very worrying -
Seam:
Wood
BallOverton
S Curran
T Curran
Roland-Jones
Brooks
+ many,many more
Spin:
Leach
Rayner
Crane
ermm...................
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I agree, he is certainly better than your average nightwatchman. I would have said - based on what I have seen in county cricket - that he is a batsman who turns his arm over rather than a frontline bowler who can hold a bat.
@Buzz I'd be interested to hear - regardless of the merits of selecting him as a bowler - where you'd bat him in the current England set up (with Woakes in the side).
After Woakes! Woakes is a genuine batsman with more experience and runs in the bank.
I was trolling a bit with Ansari really. He needs to bowl a load more and get more runs in the bank before he can bat higher than 8.
Our batting line up is a bizarre mix of duckett, Moeen, Stokes, woakes and Ansari whose natural position is probably number 6 in the order with Rashid a seven. Bairstow should be 4 really, but keeping prohibits that.
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However - the imbalance in the 'next off the rank' options for seam against spin are very worrying -
Seam:
Wood
BallOverton
S Curran
T Curran
Roland-Jones
Brooks
+ many,many more
Spin:
Leach
Rayner
Crane
ermm...................
Most countries have the same issue - I guess with four quicks to one spinner inmost sides its not that bad of a deal.
As a ...you could name Dom Bess, Stephen Parry, Liam Dawson, Parkinson, Scott Borthwick. Not stellar but better than Australia or South Africa's options.
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After Woakes! Woakes is a genuine batsman with more experience and runs in the bank.
I was trolling a bit with Ansari really. He needs to bowl a load more and get more runs in the bank before he can bat higher than 8.
Difficult really - you can't hold against the lad that he wsa selected. Its not like any reasonable person says "thanks, Mr Whittaker, but I really think you've gone a tad loopy" after all. Its clear that he is being treated as a bits and pieces player in the side, which gives him no chance to prove anything but gives people ammunition to say he's not up to it.
For all I've dissed the lad, he has some talent/potential. England are NOT helping him at the moment.
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Ansari is in a very similar position to Moeen has been batting down the order for a while, whether Ansari can be as important to the team in a years time who knows...
Rashid is bowling much better now Cook has more confidence in him, chicken and egg that, he is bowling well so Cook has confidence to go to him first, then Ali and Ansari last.
If it does seam In Mohali, one spinner will drop out so there is a space..ball maybe or get Butler in...
For now we need everyone to get runs tommorow just to draw. I actually think Ansari will be a batsman who bowls rather than a bowler going forward, we don't play 3 spinners very often.
Everything crossed we get out of this game with a draw, I'd like to see Root rein it in a bit and slow down, he's so fluent he gets carried away.
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Ansari needs to aim for out batting duckett.
If he can prove he can he might get a shot at the number 4 slot at home.
Or we move everyone up one and he slots it at 7..... or somewhere in between.
He is a batsmen after all. Even though he is coming in after Rashid currently.
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I've seen a lot of Zafar, and much as I like him, I don't think he will ever play for England as a batsman.
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Too many LHB, get Buttler in at 6(on the presumption that Bairstow will retain the gloves) and get Woakes back in at 8. Duckett and Ansari obviously getting removed
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Definately not what I wanted to wake up to.
Having seen duckett made non of 16 balls, a big sweep was no what I was expecting to see as his wicket. He obviously doesn't know weather to stick or twist. And he got no where near it with bat(gloves he did).
Might be better to rest the kid than ruin him permanently on this tour.
Ballance isn't what we want, also mentally tired and a leftie. Buttler might get a chance.
Stokes and Ali got done with turn on a fifth day pitch.
Root but of reverse, good to see despite him being our messiah, he really didn't want to review that and only did because bairstow made him.
Rashid should have left that in a rearguard fight for a draw.
Johnny b looks like he's having a net...... lol. Still we made it to dinner on day five!
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Yes deflating to wake up to couple of unplayable ones couple of bad shots-but we are in there battling which is what is needed.
Cooks wicket last night was a hammer blow to us.
England have shown good character before after a loss we are going to need that in the next match
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Oh dear...the end is near with asari getting a grubber.
The game really does come back to bite you - bet duckett won't be tweeting a reverse sweep any time soon given he can't play a forward defence.
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Jimmy bagging a pair of goldens.
JB surely has to bat higher than 7?
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Well done to India played it right after winning the toss and going big in there first innings.
Only managed to catch the last 20 mins, what's happened to Broad as a batsmen looks awful and sweeping a ball that was on the stumps and full, Jimmy also used to be a rock (record for the longest time without a 0 I remember)
Didn't see the top order wickets but disappointing Duckett hasn't scored again,
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To be fair to England after day 2 they've done pretty well baring this morning.
Surprising we've had 2 tests that have gone to day 5! Unheard of! When are they going to prepare the Bunsen everyone's been talking about
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Well that wasn't what I expected! That said, I've just seen a picture of the pitch on BBC test match special Facebook page. WOW! Go have a look, seriously! You'd have more chance surviving a blindfolded trip across a minefield!
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Well that wasn't what I expected! That said, I've just seen a picture of the pitch on BBC test match special Facebook page. WOW! Go have a look, seriously! You'd have more chance surviving a blindfolded trip across a minefield!
What do you expect on day 5? It's not even as bad as the pitches in Bangladesh or pitches they can produce
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What do you expect on day 5? It's not even as bad as the pitches in Bangladesh or pitches they can produce
I don't know what to expect. I've never seen a day 5 subcontinental pitch up close before. I was just a bit shocked. I understand they will be worn, but that looked horrible.
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Has many teams seen a day five pitch??
Do we reckon there not producing Bunsen burners as India are scarf or Ali and Rashid.........: I'll get my coat.
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I think the difference was the fact India bowled 3 spinners on a deteriorating pitch where England pretty much bowled 1... not much to sugar coat really.
Hameed is a good find but again 38 runs from 194 balls isn't going to save too many test matches when there is nobody around supporting him
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Well done to India played it right after winning the toss and going big in there first innings.
Only managed to catch the last 20 mins, what's happened to Broad as a batsmen looks awful and sweeping a ball that was on the stumps and full, Jimmy also used to be a rock (record for the longest time without a 0 I remember)
Didn't see the top order wickets but disappointing Duckett hasn't scored again,
Australian fast bowlers is what happened to Broad... They put the fear of god into him and he hasn't been the same since.... I'm not saying that cause I'm an Aussie it's just what happened
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Australian fast bowlers is what happened to Broad... They put the fear of god into him and he hasn't been the same since.... I'm not saying that cause I'm an Aussie it's just what happened
And here was me thinking it was him getting hit through the grill, but hey must not be something like that
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You are right that was the start of it then Johnson cemented the fear into him
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Actually no Johnson got to him before that in the 13/14 ashes series
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Just seen a tweet-
'England lose by 246 runs. Kohli's contribution? 248 runs.'
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Is Bell actually in with a shout here?
Ansari and Duckett unlikely to play apparently...
Buttler's place is pretty nailed on, but who comes in for Ansari?
Bell/Billings/Batty?
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What's Bell actually going to offer? The odd gormless face when he's totally clueless against spin? Buttler, Woakes and Ball in. Mohali should be a quicker wicket so unlikely to need 3 spinners.
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Why wheel Bell in? Stick with the lads you've got on tour, show a little faith and work with them to look to the future - make them work for their place instead of bringing in people outside of the squad - particularly people who aren't close to selection.
Pop Buttler in and give him a go.
Pop Bairstow at 4 (in first innings?) and Duckett to 6 or 7
Move Ansari to 4 and tell him he's a batter and occasional bowler
any of these have to be better options than looking outside the squad.
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What's Bell actually going to offer? The odd gormless face when he's totally clueless against spin? Buttler, Woakes and Ball in. Mohali should be a quicker wicket so unlikely to need 3 spinners.
yeah sounds like just 2 spinners for Mohali so there is a space. Woakes back maybe for Broad also.
I do think England want Butler in lower down as some sort of counter attacking option against the spinners.
so Ansari out, broad out, and maybe we will play Ball who has extra pace.
I'm not sure what England do with the number 4 spot.....I don't like chopping and changing the side.
have to agree with the cat (fattus) here if he stays in the team I wouldn't mind seeing him swap a place a bit lower down
but I do think Butler is in for the next match
and im not too upset with the result, we did battle into the 5th day and were on the wrong end of the toss.
im actually optimistic we can get a result in Mohali
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Just to confirm that Broad is out of at least the next test.
Duckett and Ansari likely to go too.
Buttler, Batty and Woakes to come in for the game on Saturday. Going to be incredibly tough for buttler.
Hopefully common sense will prevail and Bairstow will bat at 4.
One more thing, it is worth checking the pitch on this TMS website today. It would have been tough to secore 100 today on that pitch.
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For anyone who hasn't seen it this is the tweet with the photos of the pitch i believe Buzz is talking about -
https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/800547218092457984
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Just to confirm that Broad is out of at least the next test.
Duckett and Ansari likely to go too.
Buttler, Batty and Woakes to come in for the game on Saturday. Going to be incredibly tough for buttler.
Hopefully common sense will prevail and Bairstow will bat at 4.
One more thing, it is worth checking the pitch on this TMS website today. It would have been tough to secore 100 today on that pitch.
if you were picking the team Buzzmeister, would you take Duckett out of the firing line?
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So what are we all thinking?
Cook
Hameed
Root
Bairstow
Ali
Stokes
Woakes
Buttler
Batty
Ball
Anderson
On this case and either bairstow at 4 I'd share the gloves between buttler and bairstow
Is buttler too low here? Can yjb handle batting at 4 and keeping? Tough on duckett for me and I'd give him nohali as last chance saloon, definitely want to see ball get a run out
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you have left Rash out which none of us want!! :)
haha
yes Ball should play. I have to say and I know the forum goes in a tailspin but I really do think England are a better side with Woakes in
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So what are we all thinking?
Cook
Hameed
Root
Bairstow
Ali
Stokes
Woakes
Buttler
Batty
Ball
Anderson
On this case and either bairstow at 4 I'd share the gloves between buttler and bairstow
Is buttler too low here? Can yjb handle batting at 4 and keeping? Tough on duckett for me and I'd give him nohali as last chance saloon, definitely want to see ball get a run out
Woakes above Butler?! Share the keeping gloves.... No Rashid?!?!
Go have a sit in the corner of a room on your own and think about what you have just done!!
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we have a young inexperienced batter against the best bowlers in the world
therefore you have to give them support. - what that support is depends on the individual
Move Ali to 4 and keep bairstow at 5/6 were he has scored his runs in the last year
so you have
1. Cook
2.Hameed
3. Root
4. Ai
5. Bairstow
6. Stokes
7. Buttler
8. Woakes
9. Rashid
10 Broad/Ball/Ansari/batty dependant on pitch - swap 9/10 for LH/RH combo
11. Anderson
I feel for duckett but he has a technical fault that is consistently being exposed. He must decide if he can fix it in time for the next test or he needs more time to resolve it. just don't do a Balance and appear to change very little. However, balance of the teamwise, it would be better not to have ducket, as a left hander, in the team - all is forgiven Sam Billings!! ;-)
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I think they have to take Duckett out of the firing line before his mind gets permanently fried and does lasting damage to what is clearly a very talented guy... and then perhaps bring him back in the one dayers where he will be/feel more comfortable.
as for the side - i don't actually think they have much choice -
Cook
Hameed
Root
Mo Ali
Bairstow (wk)
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Rashid
Ball or perhaps Batty if suddenly Mohali is an unusually turning pitch
Anderson
I said in a post a while ago that i thought they should have brought another batter on the tour and this is why. We now simply have no options.
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I think they have to take Duckett out of the firing line before his mind gets permanently fried and does lasting damage to what is clearly a very talented guy... and then perhaps bring him back in the one dayers where he will be/feel more comfortable.
as for the side - i don't actually think they have much choice -
Cook
Hameed
Root
Mo Ali
Bairstow (wk)
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Rashid
Ball or perhaps Batty if suddenly Mohali is an unusually turning pitch
Anderson
I said in a post a while ago that i thought they should have brought another batter on the tour and this is why. We now simply have no options.
I think that is the side we are going to play with Ball in.
yes it's tough on Butler, he's had no chance to do anything on tour yet.
it's a gamble worth taking I think myself.
Duckett I would love to see stay in and fight it out but England will be looking at what is best for him..
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If Ballance is no longer selectable, perhaps they out to send him home?
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If Ballance is no longer selectable, perhaps they out to send him home?
Knowing England, wouldn't be surprised if ballance gets the nod before buttler.
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Is samit patel not an option?
He's already in bangladesh and got some runs in the bpl - yes it's t20 cricket.
Probably also a better spin option than ansari
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Glad I didn't set my alarm
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Probably also a better spin option than ansari
No!!!
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Club cricketer's snap judgement mentality in full effect here!
One Test ago we were only piece of fine tuning away from from having the perfect team! "What a middle order!" etc.
Has it not occured to anyone that this might be about something more than personnel?
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there's no need to panic, we lost the toss against the worlds number 1 team in their conditions. India didn't look too clever in the last match batting last(aside from Kholi who is different class)
and the game went to lunch of day 5......
Hameed is a massive positive, Rashid is bowling better, Broad and Anderson bowled well and Cook was back scoring runs.
yes one or two positions are difficult for us, I think our bowling is pretty good even if broad is out next game.
We need everything to go for us with the toss and then put runs on the board.
so far, we are competing far better than India do when they come to England.
start getting a bit positive lads, come on !! :)
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totally agree with that last comment
a minor tweak or two, that's all.
broad is an enforced changed ---
not sure if Ansari is offering much with bat or ball. maybe his the only other change needed atm
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if you were picking the team Buzzmeister, would you take Duckett out of the firing line?
I don't know, it depends where he is mentally and how much faith the team management have got. I haven't seen enough of what has gone one to get a feel for that. But 4 isn't the right place for him, he is an opener.
He is 22, any young player could struggle with the way he has gone.
Hameed is a bit of an exception, but also needs a big score.
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I'm not sure I'd change anything that wasn't injury related, unless they feel that a 4th seamer is more beneficial than a 3rd spinner. Duckett is only starting his career and has played in some of the most difficult batting conditions that world cricket has to offer, give the lad a fair chance. You can't win as an English sportsman, we as fans are too fickle, people will call for Buttler to come in (even though he hasn't played FC for a year) and then dump all the pressure on him if he has a bad game or two. We are competing with the No 1 ranked side in their own backyard and, for my money, not making too bad a go of it.
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Woakes above Butler?! Share the keeping gloves.... No Rashid?!?!
Go have a sit in the corner of a room on your own and think about what you have just done!!
Ok I admit i need to find space for rashid, but why not share the gloves??
and i said butter was probably too low!!!
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i think we are actually doing well considering all the talk of 5-0 beforehand etc... etc... and to see us take it into 5th day and last almost 100 overs 4th dig is great....
however the fact remains that we lost 4 for 29 in the 1st innings (when the pitch was ok) which pretty much lost us the game, and if we are to stand a chance that can't happen, to do anything in India you have to put 1st innings runs on the board.
i don't think Butler is the answer but i just think he has more chance than Duckett at the moment because Ashwin has him on toast
the other changes are simply injury or pitch enforced - Woakes for Broad and either Ball or Ansari/Batty
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Mohali. next up If I were England, I would look at a couple of tweaks…
Broad is out – injured. Chance for Ball to get a game I feel? Need to see what he can do, has that extra zip ?
Not sure Ansari is offering much. If this next venue isn’t much of a turner, than I would be tempted to get Butler in? so u end up with:
Anderson
Stokes
Ball
2 spinners Ali & Rashid
And then you have batting wise:
Hameed
Cook
Root
Duckett
Ali
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Rashid
Anderson
Ball
Thoughts?
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I just don't get all these calls for Buttler to play. What has he done to earn a place?
For me the only way Buttler gets near the side is if Bairstow moves to 4 in which case England would need Buttler to keep.
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What's the current forum obsession with dropping Stokes down to 7? Top runscorer and top of the averages?
Realistically we don't need a new 7/8, we need a change in the middle order, so if Buttler comes in he's batting 4-6.
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I just don't get all these calls for Buttler to play. What has he done to earn a place?
For me the only way Buttler gets near the side is if Bairstow moves to 4 in which case England would need Buttler to keep.
Hard for butler to do anything to earn a place - as they aren't playing any "side games"
but his in the squad for a reason, don't see the harm in trying him.
and that don't have to be the batting order, ie stokes and buttler don't have to be batting at 7 and 8.
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What's the current forum obsession with dropping Stokes down to 7? Top runscorer and top of the averages?
To elaborate on that how about filling that problem number 4 slot with the aforementioned top scorer and top average man.... Afterall it is where he would generally bat for Durham....
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Depends on how Bairstow feels about it but for me the only way to fix 4 is move Bairstow to 4 which brings Buttler(I don't think he deserves a recall but it does balance the side)into the side at 7 as his WK replacement.
Would then look like -
Cook
Hameed
Root
Bairstow
Ali
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Rashid
Broad/Ball/Batty (Depends on fitness/Wicket)
Anderson
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BAirstow has said on many occasions, having the gloves helps his batting. It would be counter productive to take them away from him.
Don't upset the guy making the runs!!
As for buttler, he is in the squad yes, but mainly as a backup wicket keeper. Weather there was ever a discussion involving him being a batsmen only, we won't know but at the beginning of the tour he was definately behind both ballance and duckett in the middle order pecking order.
Due to the constraints of the tour, has he really been able to prove otherwise?
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BAirstow has said on many occasions, having the gloves helps his batting. It would be counter productive to take them away from him.
Don't upset the guy making the runs!!
As for buttler, he is in the squad yes, but mainly as a backup wicket keeper. Weather there was ever a discussion involving him being a batsmen only, we won't know but at the beginning of the tour he was definately behind both ballance and duckett in the middle order pecking order.
Due to the constraints of the tour, has he really been able to prove otherwise?
true, he hasn't
im just trying to think batting wise if we don't recall Balance and do leave out Duckett how it works.
are you saying bring Balance back in rather than bring in Butler who has not played any games?
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I'm saying England have dug themselves in a hole not taking enough batting cover. 2 opening newbies, and an out of form ballance should not have been part of there 6 people that only bat.
You can only give it to who is confident. Baylis says no one is work king harder in the nets than duckett. This has to include ballance and buttler.
So keep ducket but move him lower. Blood him at 7 and move everyone else up one.
Anyone else notice we have a team of openers.
Cook
Hameed
Root
Duckett
Ali
Entire top five have opened for England in tests and it is there preferred position(or was in Roots case) is it any wonder. They struggle against spin when they arrive at the crease?
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I'm saying England have dug themselves in a hole not taking enough batting cover. 2 opening newbies, and an out of form ballance should not have been part of there 6 people that only bat.
You can only give it to who is confident. Baylis says no one is work king harder in the nets than duckett. This has to include ballance and buttler.
So keep ducket but move him lower. Blood him at 7 and move everyone else up one.
Anyone else notice we have a team of openers.
Cook
Hameed
Root
Duckett
Ali
Entire top five have opened for England in tests and it is there preferred position(or was in Roots case) is it any wonder. They struggle against spin when they arrive at the crease?
Completely agree that we have dug ourselves this hole by not taking enough batters however i don't think moving Duckett to 7 will do him any good - he will still walk out to face Ashwin and what are you telling the lad that he has gone from 1 to 4 to 7 in the space of 5 tests.
With once again it is a case of you are in the best form when you are out of the team!
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Middle-order batsman are going to have to start showing some bottle whatever numbers they bat at.
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Sorry but Duckett is not good enough at the minute, I think Woakes would score as many as him..
Yes he needs to be given a chance in better conditions before writing him off but I have not seen anything others cant offer.
Big difference from whacking division 2 county bowlers on good decks to playing the best spinners in the world..
Not saying he can't ever but saying he has been exposed...
I support England and support Duckett but as I said I think Woakes would score as many at the minute.
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Get Harry in!
https://twitter.com/tmsproducer/status/800743409891741697
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And so "Duckett must play" becomes "Duckett must go"...
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And so "Duckett must play" becomes "Duckett must go"...
Never said he should stay or go I'm just a fan I just think he has found the going tough and as I have said I think woakes would score as many as him so I suspect why pick him.
For me he should be working hard it playing for England after all and I hope he plays and does well as every player who dons the shirt.
But no I do not think he is good enough at the minute.
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mid term Duckett must play - he has potentially world class talent.
but he should only play the next test if it is going to aid his long term development. I wonder at the moment if the opposite is the case.
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mid term Duckett must play - he has potentially world class talent.
but he should only play the next test if it is going to aid his long term development. I wonder at the moment if the opposite is the case.
I think it was James Taylor that I heard say the transition in 80% mental.
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this is tricky is'nt it? young player, you want to stick with him he has hardly had a chance is very testing conditions. Do we go back to Ballance if he does not play? hmmmm not sure that would be right
the way ive worked out the Mohali test is Ansari is left out and broad is not fit.
so woakes in and probably Ball, there's no one else to drop far as I can see unless it's Duckett for Butler, everyone moves up a place and Butler slots in lower down.
Butler gives a right handed option, might counter attack and put pressure on the bowlers. He might also do nothing as he hasn't played for ages and has no track record in tests of scoring against decent spin....
trying to think of another option available without dropping the youngster and still playing 2 spinners.
I don't think there is one.
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I can't see what bringing ballance in will achieve. I'd like to see Buttler get another crack, but not sure where he fits in and hasn't played for months. I think you have to be fair to Duckett and give him time to turn things around, stick with him.
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Problem is though against Ashwin Ducett looks out of his depth playing him again in this series won't help his development
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The guardian have Butler in and Duckett missing out in the next test.
Think thats the way we will go.Butler had problems with spin when he got dropped as well the same as Duckett now.
You have to presume he is going to have licence to thump it lower down the order...
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Get Harry in!
https://twitter.com/tmsproducer/status/800743409891741697
God there are some shites on twitter!!
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I'm going to say, give Duckett at least one more test ahead of picking Butler. Stick with the boy, show him a little faith and see if he can repay you, don't be so quick to jettison him.
I am utterly unconvinced that Buttler will score more than him in a test match situation anyway.
I would however look at Ansari's position - he doesn't look well or fully fit (lots of back clutching). He's being picked as a front line spinner, which he isn't. Pick a front line spinner from your squad.
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Funny how lot of posts are all about Hameed and Duckett as if England lost because them....
I feel Cooks, Roots, Bairstows of the team have to step up and lead by example just like KP and Cook did last time. And spinners have to be more effective. If Indian dressing room is asked who you would not like to face, I am sure they would all say Jimmy. Rather its should be the spinners if England were to put up a fight...
If the experienced batters dont step up and spinners dont improve, England will continue to sink in this series. I doubt if it will make any difference if Duckett is replaced or not.
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Cricinfo reporting that buttler will play as a specialist batsman for duckett. I'm not one to usually criticise the selectors and I've said it before - they were hasty in selecting he same players for India as Bangladesh. Seemed the easy option when many players struggled in a tied series.
Definitely a batsman light...
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Cricinfo reporting that buttler will play as a specialist batsman for duckett. I'm not one to usually criticise the selectors and I've said it before - they were hasty in selecting he same players for India as Bangladesh. Seemed the easy option when many players struggled in a tied series.
Definitely a batsman light...
we are only a batsman light because Balance was not in any form during the summer and still made the tour, Duckett was untried pretty much as is Butler in test cricket.....
so yes...selection had a flaw in it.
i'm not sure who else they would of picked if Balance was left out of the original squad to be honest. If you think we need some experience the only player one I can think of is Bell
and it's a bit early to set the forum off !! Bell seems to split opinion just like KP....
:) :)
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Funny how lot of posts are all about Hameed and Duckett as if England lost because them....
I feel Cooks, Roots, Bairstows of the team have to step up and lead by example just like KP and Cook did last time. And spinners have to be more effective. If Indian dressing room is asked who you would not like to face, I am sure they would all say Jimmy. Rather its should be the spinners if England were to put up a fight...
If the experienced batters dont step up and spinners dont improve, England will continue to sink in this series. I doubt if it will make any difference if Duckett is replaced or not.
All Duckett didn't score any runs England lost because they were outplayed
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For England to win in India at the moment they need everything to go their way - they need the toss, to perform at their best when India underperform, and a bit of luck with the weather (more or less the same as India would need to win in England really). We aren't doing badly, all things considered.
I watched some footage of Duckett yesterday and on reflection, there is a definite technical flaw in his defence. He plans to stay leg side of anything the off spinner bowls and hook his defence rather than defend down the stump to stump line. That method was fine in Bangladesh, where the wickets were raging bunsens, but on Indian wickets which turn inconsistently he hasn't got a natural answer to the will-it-turn-or-won't-it conundrum. He'd do well to look at how Hameed and Bairstow have decided upon different but very decisive methods of playing that allow them time to adjust to the ball.
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Agreed, his hips also open up which stops him being able to adjust. It relies on hand eye co-ordination and great hand speed. Both of which he has, but on a Bunsen that isn't enough.
Playing spin is tough, but when it is spinning the key is to try and smother the ball as it pitches when it is full or playing back as far as possible and play it if you need to as late as possible with your weight over the ball (not stepping away through the shot). Watch how Kohli plays it. you also have to use the width of the crease as well as the depth.
Duckett's method isn't allowing him to do this. But it isn't hard to change. I am staggered he hasn't sorted it already to be honest.
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Bayliss says Duckett has worked harder than anyone else at his game the last 2 months
We have coaches out there, they have to do their job thou right?
a player at 22 is very rarely the finished article. Duckett has bags of natural talent.
Ramprakash is the one to help him, technically maybe the best of his generation
England need to get busy and start working with him....it's no good having a few throw down now and again
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I doubt he will have played on wickets like these before - you say bunsens but actually they're not, not like the two in Bangladesh, where everything spun markedly. Instead, you've got a broken up wicket, where the ball might or might not deviate in four directions at any one time, with no standardisation involved.
Hameed played very deep in his crease, and kept his hands low. Bairstow looked to get right forward or right back early. Both looked at home...
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Agreed, his hips also open up which stops him being able to adjust. It relies on hand eye co-ordination and great hand speed. Both of which he has, but on a Bunsen that isn't enough.
Playing spin is tough, but when it is spinning the key is to with smother the ball as it pitches or playing back as far as possible. Watch how Kohli plays it. you also have to use the width of the crease as well as the depth.
Duckett's method isn't allowing him to do this. But it isn't hard to change. I am staggered he hasn't sorted it already to be honest.
this is the bit that puzzles me the most Buzz - with all the help (video etc...) and coaching they have out there, how has he not seen this and corrected it or at least showed signs of it.
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this is the bit that puzzles me the most Buzz - with all the help (video etc...) and coaching they have out there, how has he not seen this and corrected it or at least showed signs of it.
Because he like so many young players currently just sees spin (having only ever faced dibble in the UK rather than proper spin on a sandpit) as latin for 10 an over. Adjusting that mentality rather than technique is what will take time.
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I know it's more of a patch job than a complete fix but if he moved to an Off Stump guard surely when he triggers to leg and it turns it'll be missing the stumps?
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doesn't really work because the issue is more about the limited insection between the plane of the ball from the right arm round bowling and that of his stroke.
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Buttler should only be consider as a number 6 or 7. I don't buy this he will go out and smash it nonsense. Looks good when the odd ball flies into the crowd but looks village when your stumps get rearranged
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Buttler should only be consider as a number 6 or 7. I don't buy this he will go out and smash it nonsense. Looks good when the odd ball flies into the crowd but looks village when your stumps get rearranged
yes.....I think what will happen is bairstow moves up and Butler...presuming England pick him which looks likely.... will go in at 7 or maybe 8 depending on where Woakes bats....
I think (we) are going to gamble it comes off. Bayliss likes Butler and the way the one day guys play.......
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Ok - so thinking about this logically - 2nd Test line up was Cook, Hameed, Root, Duckett, Ali, Stokes, Bairstow, Rashid, Ansari, Broad, Anderson.
Let's assume that Cook, Hameed, Root, Ali, Stokes, Bairstow, Rashid and Anderson are in for the 3rd Test.
That leaves 3 unknowns which we should take one at a time to address!
1. Broad - would be playing but has issues with his foot. Obvious replacement if he is fit again is likely to be Woakes.
2. Duckett - The shot he played in the last innings does seem to suggest that he has mental issues. He would have normally put a bad ball like that away 99% of the time in his sleep! So if the Management think he is ok to bat still, then leave him in as the wicket will (supposedly) play better for batsmen in the next Test? But if they are worried about Duckett's mental state then they may pull him - replacement? Probably Buttler (maybe at 4, maybe slightly lower down the order)
3. Ansari - decent player who hasn't come alive in any match yet. Unlikely to play in the 3rd Test if the wicket is not expected to require 3 spinners! So if they decide that Rashid and Ali are enough, with the option of Root taking a few overs if required, then Ansari will be the one rested! Therefore replacement is likely to be pace bowler - hopefully Ball (please not Finn until he shows genuine improvement again) as Ball has shown his quality already in Bangladesh!
I can see Broad and Ansari definitely being rested! No opinion on Duckett as I have no clue as to his frame of mind currently but would hope that the Management know whether he is mentally fit enough or not. So I think either:
Cook, Hameed, Root
Duckett, Ali, Stokes, Bairstow,
Woakes, Rashid, Ball, Anderson.
Or if Duckett is left out:
Cook, Hameed, Root,
Bairstow, Ali, Stokes, Buttler,
Woakes, Rashid, Ball, Anderson
Bairstow could bat 4 as there is always the option of Buttler taking the gloves if Bairstow goes big with the bat!! ;)
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Buttler, Woakes and Finn will come in
Broad, Duckett and Ansari will go out
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Finn!!!! What the f*ck has Ball done - wee'd in Trevor's Frapuccino?
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I can't believe Finn will play ahead of Ball in this match, presuming we don't need 3 spinners
it's got to be ball surely :) love Steve Finn but he hasn't bowled well for a while.
ive seen Ball bowl live and he has got some wheels and gets decent bounce
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Indian stumper Saha is out with a leg injury and has been replaced by Parthiv Patel. Who rather remarkably Is still only 31 years old. First Test in 8 years.
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Finns in because they are expecting a track with bounce and carry
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they needed the extra height of Finn over Ball, that whole inch will make all the difference, not their skills or Finns ability to bowl absolute dross...
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UNBELIEVABLE.
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Quite. One was the best seamer in England last year. The other was the fourth best seamer in Middlesex.
Go figure.
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Finns in because they are expecting a track with bounce and carry
Mohali is not the same anymore. Last test against SA, spinners dominated big time.
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Finns in because they are expecting a track with bounce and carry
Shastri mentioned its too early in the season for pace and bounce, more likely to be on the slower side
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if all that is correct, and even if the wicket should help seamers, there's nothing stopping India shaving any remaining grass off, we could be back to three spinners and just Woakes back for Broad.
and Butler replacing Duckett.
which might mean a game for Batty?
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Steven Finn's international career needs to be put out of its' misery. Not sure he was even the fourth best seamer in Middlesex last year, I'd rather have James Fuller!
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Steven Finn's international career needs to be put out of its' misery. Not sure he was even the fourth best seamer in Middlesex last year, I'd rather have James Fuller!
1. Roland-Jones
2. Murtagh
3. Harris
4. Franklin
5. Fuller
6. Podmore
7. Helm
8. Finn
Bit mean? :D
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After the 2nd innings england blockathon failed hot off the press from the england camp for the 3rd test :
josh Buttler license to thrill
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After the 2nd innings england blockathon failed hot off the press from the england camp for the 3rd test :
josh Buttler license to thrill
I can't wait to see him make a run a ball 2, having been sent in mid collapse for a good time, not a long time!
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Its gonna be interesting how Jos goes, down the order to give it a thump.
That should mean(i think!) Woakes bats 8 rash 9
Senior....in this match coming up do you think England are stronger with Woakes in?
Or because he is that far down would you pick another bowler instead?
Be interested to know i feel we are a better side with Woakes in
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Its gonna be interesting how Jos goes, down the order to give it a thump.
That should mean(i think!) Woakes bats 8 rash 9
Senior....in this match coming up do you think England are stronger with Woakes in?
Or because he is that far down would you pick another bowler instead?
Be interested to know i feel we are a better side with Woakes in
No Carlo because for me in the sub continent woakes as show he is out of his depth with ball against top order players also his batting average is boosted by not outs due to batting low down he's a make do and hopefully mend selection I would have gone for ball. Unlike England selectors Never been a fan of bits and pieces players for me they need to be as good as Flittoff or Botham to be called allrounders . But the problem is as stated by others on here on this tour we are a batsman light and have no proven Quality quick bowling cover for Broad and Anderson.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38101943 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38101943)
Duckett, Broad & Ansari out of the 3rd Test
Buttler, Woakes & A.N Other (to be confirmed at the toss) coming in
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[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38101943[/url] ([url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38101943[/url])
Duckett, Broad & Ansari out of the 3rd Test
Buttler, Woakes & A.N Other (to be confirmed at the toss) coming in
yeah WW37....
but who is the mystery player :) looks like despite vicious rumours Mohali help seamers the groundman has shaved the pitch smoother than a bikini wax in a salon.
who is your money on?
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Who I'd like to see play is Ball, but knowing the England selectors my money is on Finn getting a game.
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Aggers has tweeted this - i reckon Batty may play if this is true....
https://twitter.com/Aggerscricket/status/802052666889076738
Nasser tweeted this pic of the pitch 2 days ago :o :o
https://twitter.com/nassercricket/status/801656571533017088
and also TMS - although a long way away the pitch doesn't look very green to me :D :D
https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/802054969679454208
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Aggers has tweeted this - i reckon Batty may play if this is true....
https://twitter.com/Aggerscricket/status/802052666889076738
Nasser tweeted this pic of the pitch 2 days ago :o :o
https://twitter.com/nassercricket/status/801656571533017088
and also TMS - although a long way away the pitch doesn't look very green to me :D :D
https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/802054969679454208
good banter with Jimmy. I think he is referring to when Nasser stuck the Aussies in at Brisbane or Adelaide and it was a belting wicket :)
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yeah WW37....
but who is the mystery player :) looks like despite vicious rumours Mohali help seamers the groundman has shaved the pitch smoother than a bikini wax in a salon.
who is your money on?
Mohall is known to assist seamers but To be effective you have to have the ability to pitch the ball up and get it to seam late can't comment on Ball but out of the other bowlers named who are playing only Jimmy can do it at will
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Mohall is known to assist seamers but To be effective you have to have the ability to pitch the ball up and get it to seam late can't comment on Ball but out of the other bowlers named who are playing only Jimmy can do it at will
Not any more, turned massively against SA. Too early in the season to get any pace and bounce. Might swing a little bit, but that's about it.
We'll finally see a turning wicket ;)
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[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38101943[/url] ([url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38101943[/url])
Duckett, Broad & Ansari out of the 3rd Test
Buttler, Woakes & A.N Other (to be confirmed at the toss) coming in
I guess it depends on whether they win the toss? I suspect that if England bowl 1st and 3rd, they may play Ball (Please not Finn!) and if England bowl 2nd and 4th then maybe Batty will get the spot?
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Pete, they can't wait till after the toss to decide!!
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I guess it depends on whether they win the toss? I suspect that if England bowl 1st and 3rd, they may play Ball (Please not Finn!) and if England bowl 2nd and 4th then maybe Batty will get the spot?
Be nice if we could do that, teams have to be named before the toss though.
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Pete loving the re-writing of the rules!
:)
any why not?
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I still think they should change the rules for the toss!
If the away team chooses the 1st Test. Then the losing team from the 1st Test choose 2nd Test and so on. And for a Draw, the away team chooses the next Test.
And that would also help the team selection for the next Test, as you would have a better idea of what you will be doing (bat first, bowl first, etc)
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Interesting to see that Ali and bairstow move up to 4 and 5, and jos is in at 7.
Yet stokes stays at six. We reckon they've done that because of his bowling or he put his foot down to stay at 6??
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Two thoughts:
It breaks up the lefthanders.
It would be good to have something approaching a settled team!
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6 is right for Stokes, he is a genuine all rounder
and I think he asked to bat there a while back.......or it was when Farbrace was in charge for a while and told Stokes that should be where he bats
one of the two can't remember, but genuine all rounder-that's where you should bat.
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6 is right for Stokes, he is a genuine all rounder
and I think he asked to bat there a while back.......or it was when Farbrace was in charge for a while and told Stokes that should be where he bats
one of the two can't remember, but genuine all rounder-that's where you should bat.
Don't be so prescriptive, I wouldn't have wasted Kallis or Sobers at 6!!
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But Ali is at 4 and woakes 8........... cough #genuineallroudners cough
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But Ali is at 4 and woakes 8........... cough #genuineallroudners couch
yeah I think that's why you get differing opinions on the forum regarding allrounders....any why Woakes causes so many posts. I don't agree with @Seniorplayer about Woakes(not being in the team) but I do see what he means....
Both he and I (am im sure some other oldies on here(fattus!!!) and those younger that appreciate the older players, grew up with botham.khan.dev,hadlee, etc.....in one era there were some of the best ever, and you can argue all day long who was the best(BOTHAM!!!!!) :)
So when someone on here posts 'genuine allrounder' it sort of means something a bit different(!)
so I see where senior is coming from
I do class Stokes as genuine allrounder, I don't think Ali or Woakes are......
If that makes any sense :)
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Given Moeen was picked as the number 1 spinner and is now batting at 4 it might be a little disingenuous no to refer to him as a genuine allrounder.
Woakes has been picked as a bowler first and foremost but I think he is not far from being a genuine all rounder. He is certainly a better batter than Collingwood was a bowler for example.
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SEXY JOS TIME
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Suprised Jos has come in as a batsman only. Thought they would have gone YJB 4 & given Buttler the gloves. I suppose it does break the RH/LH up a bit with Mo at 4.
Fair bit of work for Mo to get through being #1 spinner and #4 in the order.
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1- as has been mentioned on here so so many times. JB does not want to give up the gloves. In His mind it helps his batting. So why risk taking your form batsmen going out of form by upsetting him?
2- jos has played 1 first class game in 13months. Let him concentrate on his batting only. Why chuck a second discipline on a guy that probably has a lot to think about as it is on his comeback.
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the management are already taking the pressure off Jos and quite right, the middle bit of our batting order has not settled down for a while(although I think Duckett is the answer long term)
so it's a wildcard and i'm sure he will be given licence
it's a gamble but if we look at the options available there's not much left :)
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Given Moeen was picked as the number 1 spinner and is now batting at 4 it might be a little disingenuous no to refer to him as a genuine allrounder.
Woakes has been picked as a bowler first and foremost but I think he is not far from being a genuine all rounder. He is certainly a better batter than Collingwood was a bowler for example.
Better batter than Collingwood maybe but no where near as good as Sobers Botham and other proper all rounders With bat or ball.
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Moeen might've been selected as number 1 spinner, but he's along way from being a leading spinner for any of the other major Test playing nations. He isn't a true all rounder. Neither is Woakes.
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Been reading that all the ex pros suggesting Mohali would be fast and bouncy. What planet they living on? Last year Dean Elgar's flithy SLA bagged a 4fer up there, so was there ever a chance India would produce a pitch that favours the opposition? IIRC last time India toured these shores, we dished up the greenest pitch I've ever seen at Lords.
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Arrrr. Dean Elgar. #genuineallrounder........
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So if the wicket is going to be that dry, then surely Batty will get the final spot?
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Looks dry as a biscuit to me
https://twitter.com/skycricket/status/801694013027975168
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Yup. We need the same coin we had in the first test
'Tails never fails'
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Would be nice to win the toss!
Whoever bats first is going to be favourite by the looks of things.
Is it another 4am start?
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Yes im normally watching about 5 am.rick james and one or two other early birds!
Batty should be in for us i would think.
I just wonder if we would be better with another seamer and play to our strengths even thou theres no grass on it
But Batty back i would think is nailed on
Crucial game for England,we need some luck and to put them under pressure
If we do who knows? :)
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Cook dropped twice already! Once hilariously by Ashwin, who followed up by sliding and booting one for 4. Does look to be a bit it in for the seamers. Root looking too good as usual, hopefully he does better than the usual breezy 40...
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Oh god. Save us please Jos.
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Already playing like a day 4 wicket: variable bounce and it's taking turn
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Fifty for JB.
Can someone just remind me. There was a member banging on about how JB cant play spin and won't score anything in Asia this winter.
Just can't remember who it was........
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Chris, dont be silly he cant play spin he only averages 93 on this tour.
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Barstow's got a lot of starts and not produced a big knock so far this tour, could do with today being the day for a score.
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Every time YJB bats like this I get a smug sense of "told you so!"
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Kohli must be the most defensive captain going. Long on already back to buttler who's just come in
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Barstow's got a lot of starts and not produced a big knock so far this tour, could do with today being the day for a score.
bit tough when the management insist on batting their best player at seven...
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bit tough when the management insist on batting their best player at seven...
7 isn't as low as normal when you've got Woakes Rashid and Ansari behind you as has been the case recently! Plus other than one not out, he's been 6th wicket to fall in every innings so not like he's been left with the tail. Batting well but I'd like to see him make it count more. Same goes for Root 90% of the time unfortunately.
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jos is looking frisky. He'll need to be careful with all these induckers flying around!
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Great stuff from Jos and bairstow here, looking at the pitch, no idea what a good score is but bairstow showing what a good player he is now....
Stick around Jos !
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Plus other than one not out, he's been 6th wicket to fall in every innings so not like he's been left with the tail. Batting well but I'd like to see him make it count more.
I think he is trying to do exactly that - remember how often he was last man out in South Africa last year?
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Oh Jos
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So 5 England batsmen so far have thrown their wickets away! Poor batting
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So 5 England batsmen so far have thrown their wickets away! Poor batting
Having watched it live have to agree what was Cook thinking playing that shot first ball against Ashwin
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I love YJB
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Cracking innings from johnny. Got us near a decent total.
Woakes aiming for another not out here to nudge his average up.........
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That ball tracking looked very odd to me, no way was that ball pitching outside off, looked like it pitched on middle
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That ball tracking looked very odd to me, no way was that ball pitching outside off, looked like it pitched on middle
Camera used for looking at edge is not inline with the stumps, so not really wise to use it as a judgement where the ball pitched.
Hawk eye cameras are bang inline(ills smith they aren't 100% accurate mind)
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Well - England did win the toss but seemed to through away half their wickets!
So any advantage from batting first hasn't been taken! To me it's evens at the moment.
India will need to bat well when they bat tomorrow and will have to bat even better in the 4th innings (assuming England don't through the Test away before that!)
England will need to bowl really well to pull us back into this Test though - although you never judge until both teams have batted I guess.
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I reckon if we could get up to 300 we'd be pretty handily placed given that the pitch will make it harder and harder for batsmen in each successive innings. Can't help but feel that we will miss Broad though, he is so good when there is any variation in bounce.
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Cracking innings from johnny. Got us near a decent total.
Woakes aiming for another not out here to nudge his average up.........
Yep 25 off 80 balls
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Yep 25 off 80 balls
🎣
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Pretty inept batting effort TBH. I literally counted 5 balls that ripped square during the entire day. Granted Hameed got a lifter but again that was a rarity. This was easily an 400-450 wicket yet we screwed it up.
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We didn't bat very well today, looks like there might be something in the pitch thou hameed got a very nasty lifter.
This is were I think our seamers might do better because the Indians are superb players of spin, if it goes up and down a bit later on our quicks might do more damage....but we have 3 spinners in again, would like to of seen ball in for batty in this match.
And I see Khoi got away with it, he gives Stokes a send off, Stokes responds and he gets reprimanded.
If you start it you should get reprimanded as well. But then it's Khoii and we are in India :)
Can't see us getting many more runs tommorow looks a crucial day in the series
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TBH I thought Shami and U Yadav where fantastic today, showed good skills reversing it at 90mph, not too shabby
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🎣
Well Unfortunatly for England he hardly looked like scoring a big hundred but we never know he might get a 5 for after all according to some he is a genuine allrouder....
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Well Unfortunatly for England he hardly looked like scoring a big hundred but we never know he might get a 5 for after all according to some he is a genuine allrouder....
Big fish biting today.
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Big fish biting today.
Certainly Are
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Let's keep it civil, the forum has had a good vibe in the last 6 months let's not lose that again
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Well said Carlo
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Do you ever have anything positive to say?
For me what I saw India bowled well! Yes England have thrown wickets away but o feel the bowling causes some of the bad shots
England will have to bowl well yes but this game is evens and there for anyone to take! massive day tomorrow!
Don't think it's evens at all it was Indias day
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on a positive note for England Jos Butler batted really well and used his brain to keep the scoreboard moving with bairstow
Only his first game back but he is always looking for runs and we need that mindset in the lower order.
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Back to the cricket children :D
Again kohli and pujara putting on a partnership. 283 is well below bar after you win the toss
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Gareth batty.
Our go to spin bowler in the Bangladesh first test.
India third test, he's sixth choice bowler. And is having a mare, not sure cook has a clue what he's doing with the field mind.
Should have picked Ball!
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Just listening to Athers on sky saying we should of had the extra seamer in every test on this tour and play to our strengths
We are staring down the barrel again in this match unless we can break this partnership straight after lunch
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!!!!!
Woakes
He bats he bowls he catches :)
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Yes, I am struggling to see the point in having Batty and Moeen in the side - at least when it was Ansari there was some variety and a chance to blood a young player.
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!!!!!
Woakes
He bats for his average he bowls filthy medium pace he catches one in three if you're lucky :)
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DILLY DING DILLY DONG
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He did not pick that. Missed it by a mile!
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Yes, I am struggling to see the point in having Batty and Moeen in the side - at least when it was Ansari there was some variety and a chance to blood a young player.
You would think if broad was fit we would have 2 spinners....
But even then Ball might of been useful. If wickets break up a bit or there is uneven bounce seamers can do the job just as well...
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Oh my giddy aunt this game has come alive
Jos butler!!!
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Have India been watching India with the collapse?
Kohli going for a wander and sending the newbie I big dummie there!
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BIG JOS
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Jos! Specialist backward point and no.7 batter. Every team needs one!
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That was just brilliant fielding
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BENJI!
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Ben stokes gets the wicket and immediately has to bite his own tongue....... serious restraint from him, bet he wanted to give a send off more than anything there.
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!!!!!
Woakes
He bats he bowls he catches :)
Ah. Got it He catches that's why he's playing
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The way Rashid is bowling has improved on this tour he has shown you know longer need he extra spinner Ball or the extra batsman should have played.
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I love Bairstow's excitement levels right now
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The way Rashid has improved on this tour has been great to see, I think now his (and Cook's) confidence has improved test match bowling has finally clicked for him. Staking a big case for still being in the team in the summer with Ali playing his more natural role of middle order batsman and second spinner.
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Despite getting kohli, Ashwin showing he's definitely an all rounder now
Batty has been extremely poor for such an experienced spinner
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New ball going everywhere now. Disappointed end to a good afternoon for England. England need nip out these two asap
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Yes after the first over cooks face says it all he gives the new ball to Woakes who goes for. Ten
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Nip these two out early tomorrow and we don't really want India having any more than about 30-40 in front and then we really need to bat well for at least a day and half and put some pressure on India 2nd innings with out bowlers having a good total to bowl too, cook bat all 2nd innings and the powerful and long middle order doing there job. Well here is hoping anyway
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Yes after the first over cooks face says it all he gives the new ball to Woakes who goes for. Ten
Whats your issue with Woakes? Think his becoming a serious cricketer for us
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No issue Dave for me on this tour so far he has not been good enough with bat or ball
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Saw the Anderson appealing for obstructing the field - thought it was pretty pathetic. Batsman hasn't moved at all to get in the way of the ball
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I'm surprised that Woakes is being criticised, for me he is one of our best players. We've only played a couple of tests remember.
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Lead already 75. First time jadeja has batted properly.
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Woakes smacked 4 4s in that over, few on here would have enjoyed that. Jadeja teeing off
Pitch looks pretty flat, not spinning much
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Woakes is totally useless in sub continental conditions. He runs in and puts the ball on a length. Straight up and down. Incapable of getting reverse swing. Just gifting the opposition batsmen easy scoring opportunities
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Jadeja throws away the chance for a 100. Much needed wicket for England
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I am not watching the match. But judging by the scores, it does sound like the wicket is not getting any worse and maybe even getting flatter?
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I am not watching the match. But judging by the scores, it does sound like the wicket is not getting any worse and maybe even getting flatter?
Commentators have all been saying so. Odds on some gremlins having run out and miraculously turned it into a minefield at tea though?
Root opens with Cook, not sure about that.
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Surely Ali should have opened?
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hameed must be struggling with the whack on the hand in the 1st innings....
we will do well to hang on this evening, hard going in the field but what an effort from Stokes.....
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So if hameed isn't available for test 4/5 What do we do?
Open with duckett? Ali? Root stay there?
If not duckett does ducket or ballance come into the middle order?
Do ee bother calling anyone up if he is injured? a proper opener? Hales, lyth, Robson etc.
Or do we call up a middle order player? Vince, kp, bortheick. Or one of many many more?
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Surely Ali should have opened?
He didn't exactly make a great fist of it last winter did he! Assuming Moeen bats 3, he'll have batted in every spot in the top 9 for England. Sounds like my club seasons recently...
I'd have sent Woakes out with Cook. Not just to annoy seniorplayer either, although that would have been an added benefit.
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So if hameed isn't available for test 4/5 What do we do?
Open with duckett? Ali? Root stay there?
If not duckett does ducket or ballance come into the middle order?
Do ee bother calling anyone up if he is injured? a proper opener? Hales, lyth, Robson etc.
Or do we call up a middle order player? Vince, kp, bortheick. Or one of many many more?
there's a break after this match before Mumbai so there's time to get fit, depends if it's a crack or just bruising I suppose.
As to who we call up :) those that posted on here we looked a batsman light might be proved right
I don't think were but taking Balance so clearly out of form was a mistake.
We are getting ourselves in a bit of a tangle on this tour, we are on the wrong end of it this match that's for sure.
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Is DRS dead?
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Cook looks gone here too :(
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Nah, great umpiring
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I can't take much more of this
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hanging on for dear life here :)
COME ON COOKIE REVERSE SWEEP IT
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This is awful
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hanging on for dear life here :)
COME ON COOKIE REVERSE SWEEP IT
MAybe he should have.......
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This is awful
Yep drop cookie............ (that'll get @Bats_Entertainment going)
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Moeen fails to go through with the shot out caught
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Wow what a poor shot from Ali! Ashwin beat him in the air yes, but what a rubbish shot!
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we are going under here...
I think we are a bit shot to be honest after the effort in the field..
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Decent ball from ashwin to get rid of stokes. Kohli gets the last word or should I say shhh.
England still 56 behind
Still don't believe this is a spinning wicket, they've produced pretty flat tracks this series
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Its been disappointing this test match
I said earlier, I would like to see England win the toss and then see how well India cope. But englands first innings total was below par. And India have come good to be fair.
Also, I mentioned I am not sure about England selecting a 3rd spinner for the sake of it. Both Batty and Ansari haven't looked threatening or aren't really bowling with enough control. England perhaps have missed a trick here with their selections.
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Its been disappointing this test match
I said earlier, I would like to see England win the toss and then see how well India cope. But englands first innings total was below par. And India have come good to be fair.
Also, I mentioned I am not sure about England selecting a 3rd spinner for the sake of it. Both Batty and Ansari haven't looked threatening or aren't really bowling with enough control. England perhaps have missed a trick here with their selections.
yes.....I think England would be better playing to our strengths, so the extra seamer in and two spinners
that would also reduce the woakload on stokes and Anderson...
you also have to factor in India are superb players of spin
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Turning pitches or not, unfortunately I think India are better as an entire XI in these conditions than we are. Their spinners are better on these flat surfaces, enough of their batting comes off all the way down on these decks to book in for steady runs.
Our batters struggle to knuckle down and our spinners lack control.
Whilst we are falling a bit short, there are some bright spots - Bairstows batting, the emergence of Stokes as a true all-rounder and Rashids wicket-taking abilities.
Sadly I think we are just not a strong enough XI to take India on in India yet.
Figures may prove me wrong, but my gut feel is that Cook and Root have been inconsistent with their runs, Moeen is not penetrating enough and a little fast and loose with the bat to be in the top 5. Anderson and Woakes seem very steady in these conditions, but lack the wicket-taking ability of Yadav and Shami.
We're not terrible, but it's a tough old battle here.
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Do agree with most of those sentiments.
I did think England would fair better than NZ for example in these conditions. And I guess they have (first test)...
Look forward to seeing how India get on away. As its been known for a long time they are formidable at home. But away is where their true test awaits.
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Turning pitches or not, unfortunately I think India are better as an entire XI in these conditions than we are. Their spinners are better on these flat surfaces, enough of their batting comes off all the way down on these decks to book in for steady runs.
Our batters struggle to knuckle down and our spinners lack control.
Whilst we are falling a bit short, there are some bright spots - Bairstows batting, the emergence of Stokes as a true all-rounder and Rashids wicket-taking abilities.
Sadly I think we are just not a strong enough XI to take India on in India yet.
Figures may prove me wrong, but my gut feel is that Cook and Root have been inconsistent with their runs, Moeen is not penetrating enough and a little fast and loose with the bat to be in the top 5. Anderson and Woakes seem very steady in these conditions, but lack the wicket-taking ability of Yadav and Shami.
We're not terrible, but it's a tough old battle here.
Spot on there Cat
do you think that's why England wanted to give Balance as many chances as possible to get runs? because they know he can stick around amounst the stroke players we have
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Turning pitches or not, unfortunately I think India are better as an entire XI in these conditions than we are. Their spinners are better on these flat surfaces, enough of their batting comes off all the way down on these decks to book in for steady runs.
Our batters struggle to knuckle down and our spinners lack control.
Whilst we are falling a bit short, there are some bright spots - Bairstows batting, the emergence of Stokes as a true all-rounder and Rashids wicket-taking abilities.
Sadly I think we are just not a strong enough XI to take India on in India yet.
Figures may prove me wrong, but my gut feel is that Cook and Root have been inconsistent with their runs, Moeen is not penetrating enough and a little fast and loose with the bat to be in the top 5. Anderson and Woakes seem very steady in these conditions, but lack the wicket-taking ability of Yadav and Shami.
We're not terrible, but it's a tough old battle here.
couldn't agree more with the Cat, this is pure and simple a case of we haven't done ourselves justice but India are ridiculously strong on home turf and haven't let us.
you have to remember India are unbeaten at home in 16 Test matches since 2012
when India came to England last we won 2 tests by an innings and one by over 250 runs
the true test of a great Test Cricket side these days is the ability to win series away from home
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Turning pitches or not, unfortunately I think India are better as an entire XI in these conditions than we are. Their spinners are better on these flat surfaces, enough of their batting comes off all the way down on these decks to book in for steady runs.
Our batters struggle to knuckle down and our spinners lack control.
Whilst we are falling a bit short, there are some bright spots - Bairstows batting, the emergence of Stokes as a true all-rounder and Rashids wicket-taking abilities.
Sadly I think we are just not a strong enough XI to take India on in India yet.
Figures may prove me wrong, but my gut feel is that Cook and Root have been inconsistent with their runs, Moeen is not penetrating enough and a little fast and loose with the bat to be in the top 5. Anderson and Woakes seem very steady in these conditions, but lack the wicket-taking ability of Yadav and Shami.
We're not terrible, but it's a tough old battle here.
Lacking in wicket taking is a an understatement Woakes hasn't taken a wicket inc this one in his last 3 tests .
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Lacking in wicket taking is a an understatement Woakes hasn't taken a wicket inc this one in his last 3 tests .
Come on now, that's just not true! Take those blinkers off.
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it is an amazing record India have at home
and event he most passionate England fans would not say we are a great side. Good yes, not great.
I think we are doing ok.....yes we are not batting long enough and that's our problem, the bowlers are doing a good job. We got 20 wickets in the last test.
we need to hang in there and battle a bit more thou.
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Lacking in wicket taking is a an understatement Woakes hasn't taken a wicket inc this one in his last 3 tests .
You got any thoughts on anyone/anything else? As we lost the last test to, and woakes didn't even play in that.
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We have a decent squad. But we are lacking in application.
Root and cook have not been consistent enough.
Ali is not a top 5 batsmen.
We are an extra batsmen short this tour(duckett and ballance seem mentally shot)
Our seam bowlers seem unfit.
Yes our spinners lack control of the Indians, and it's shown more on the pitches that seem to have a lack of turn.
Both before and currently everyone seems intent that all pitches will be raging turners. And have put all concentration on that. Both from a batsmen and bowlers point of view.
India have been clever here, England have a few half decent spinners, and on raging burners could cause issue.
So they've created non turningnpitches so their better and far more experience spin attack can dominate the games.
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Bother before and currently everyone seems intent that allnptiche will be raging turners. And havebout all concentration on that. Both from a batsmena and bowlers point of view.
Eh?
I think if England played at the top of their game we'd stand a decent chance of beating India away. Anything short of that and in their home conditions they're on top. England certainly not embarrassing themselves out there, but could do better. More top order consistency being the main issue for me.
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So if Hameed is injured, who's the next cab of the rank? Who's the best player of spin - no point calling someone who can bat on green tops yet clueless against spin. Recall for alex hales or bell?
Batty and ansari have been extremely poor, would be tempted to call up another spinner or play an extra batsmen given it's the batting that's under performing. Then again England have batting all the way down as it is
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Jennings or Gubbins most likely, or perhaps Billings.
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by all accounts billings is a cracking player of spin so hed be my call and bat him in the middle order as for opening i think you have a choice of root/duckett/ansari.
No i know what you'll say about ansari however he does open for surrey on occasion and i feel at the top of the order would be the best place for him to bat as he can knuckle down and isnt just looking for quick runs/batting with the tail and i think we can all agree hes a better bat than 9/10/11
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Stick to the same squad I love seeing England get smashed ;) :D
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we wont call up Hales or Bell they wer'nt in the original squad, could we of done with Bell on this tour? If he had got a lot of runs for Warwickshire last year maybe, but England have moved forward with younger players....
so if we need another batter yes prob from the Lions in Dubai. Jennings did well last year and Gubbins.....
I see the point about Ansari, don't think he has bowled or batted particularly well so far but there is clearly talent there to bat higher, England selectors see something and are right most of the time these days.
As has been pointed out, we are second favourites in this series, it's about realistic expectations what we can get out of this tour.
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If Hameed is out of action it really would be a huge call to bring someone in - there maybe a gap but it is only a week - Mumbai test starts Thursday 8th
So you have to make the decision on who, fly someone over, get them acclimatised etc.... let alone they might not have picked up a bat for quite a while
Like ppccopener said the only thing you could say is that the Lions are in Dubai at the moment so if you selected from them then they would have some training under their belts etc... so that includes Jennings, Gubbins and Westley
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Jennings, Gubbins and Westley would be in the same boat as Ben Duckett - lacking experience.
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Aren't a few english lads playing in the BPL?
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I don't see much point in playing Batty if he's not thought to be a better off-spinner than Ali.
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broken finger for Hameed by the sounds of it which means he could well be coming home
Jennings, Daniel bell Drummond and gubbins indeed the names in the frame, but has been pointed out, chucked in the middle of a test series is far from ideal
could Balance come back in to the team and open rather than a novice?
I somehow think that's the way it will go
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I can't see England wanting to open with 2 left handers with Ashwin, so feel Root will rather stay opening after this game and Ballance/Duckett into the middle order, or a lad from the lions tour come in, if that happens Id like to see Bell-Drummond given a go
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Come on now, that's just not true! Take those blinkers off.
[/quote
I wished it was mistake but it's true I am afraid
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Lacking in wicket taking is a an understatement Woakes hasn't taken a wicket inc this one in his last 3 tests .
He got gambhir's wicket. Keep your blinkers on. But atleast get the facts right.!
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yes.....I think England would be better playing to our strengths, so the extra seamer in and two spinners
that would also reduce the woakload on stokes and Anderson...
you also have to factor in India are superb players of spin
Without doubt now Rashid as showed what he's capable of our two spinners are enough but I think an extra seamer would be under used the way England are batting a better option would be another batsman
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Missing someone like Mark Wood badly. A 90-95mph reverse swing bowler would've been worth his weight in gold
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Yes Stokes Anderson Broad and Wood dream team
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yep we sure are....
but Wood is injury prone and I really really hope i'm wrong but the way his set up is it's not made for a long career
He reminds me very much of Simon Jones.
Jones was blistering quick in his 20's and sadly injury cut short his career. He too had an explosive final release-huge strain on the body.
While it lasted thou it was great. half of the 2005 Ashes was enough to be a legend
:)
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Yes Stokes Anderson Broad and Wood dream team
No Chris Woakes?
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He got gambhir's wicket. Keep your blinkers on. But atleast get the facts right.!
Yes one wicket the returning from injury out of form Gambir so it's one wicket from the last 3 tests not good is it now who has the blinkers on
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Yes one wicket the returning from injury out of form Gambir so it's one wicket from the last 3 tests not good is it now who has the blinkers on
Plus the 3 wickets in his previous test...
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we wont call up Hales or Bell they wer'nt in the original squad, could we of done with Bell on this tour? If he had got a lot of runs for Warwickshire last year maybe, but England have moved forward with younger players....
so if we need another batter yes prob from the Lions in Dubai. Jennings did well last year and Gubbins.....
I see the point about Ansari, don't think he has bowled or batted particularly well so far but there is clearly talent there to bat higher, England selectors see something and are right most of the time these days.
As has been pointed out, we are second favourites in this series, it's about realistic expectations what we can get out of this tour.
Didn't Cook play his first test called up from the lions tour and then get a big score so you never know.
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Yes one wicket the returning from injury out of form Gambir so it's one wicket from the last 3 tests not good is it now who has the blinkers on
You,
he's took 4 wickets in his last 3 tests, and you claimed he took zero. Doesn't matter who they are or how he took them. you just can't say he didn't take any cos you have a grudge.
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yep we sure are....
but Wood is injury prone and I really really hope i'm wrong but the way his set up is it's not made for a long career
He reminds me very much of Simon Jones.
Jones was blistering quick in his 20's and sadly injury cut short his career. He too had an explosive final release-huge strain on the body.
While it lasted thou it was great. half of the 2005 Ashes was enough to be a legend
:)
I remember seeing that Simon Jones fielding on the boundary injury as soon as went down you knew he was in trouble
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You,
he's took 4 wickets in his last 3 tests, and you claimed he took zero. Doesn't matter who they are or how he took them. you just can't say he didn't take any cos you have a grudge.
Not quite correct though is it i orginally stated no wickets in his last three tests if you inc this test he has you have correctly pointed out taken just one wicket . But please don't take my so called blinkered statement as being bona fide take a look at his bowling figures.
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Not quite correct though is it i orginally stated no wickets in his last three tests if you inc this test he has you have correctly pointed out taken just one wicket . But please don't take my so called blinkered statement take a look at his bowling figures.
(https://s22.postimg.org/bhcb2c2pd/woakes.png)
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg)
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Batting average of 32 and bowling average of 28? I'd take that from my 4th seamer and #8 all day long!
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Not quite correct though is it i orginally stated no wickets in his last three tests if you inc this test he has you have correctly pointed out taken just one wicket . But please don't take my so called blinkered statement as being bona fide take a look at his bowling figures.
Learning curve sir, he had a really good summer for a lad trying to make his mark in test cricket. He can be counted unlucky to miss out in the last test as he has been a consistent performer in 2016. Im pretty sure jimmy anderson didnt just turn up and take 400+ wickets.
Jake ball would be a replacement but then we wouldnt bat long enough in the ranks.
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can we look at broads/Anderson's first 5 tests on the subcontinent coz im sure they will have similar returns and are two of England's best bowlers ever in all conditions.. give the lad a break, who would we rather have woakes or finn? woakes all day everyday!!
anyway ball needs to play instead of a spinner in the next test!! pace and height especially if broad aint fit
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(https://s17.postimg.org/3uo6htr8v/jimmy.png)
(https://s14.postimg.org/zeue3qprl/broad.png)
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Learning curve sir, he had a really good summer for a lad trying to make his mark in test cricket. He can be counted unlucky to miss out in the last test as he has been a consistent performer in 2016. Im pretty sure jimmy anderson didnt just turn up and take 400+ wickets.
Jake ball would be a replacement but then we wouldnt bat long enough in the ranks.
Wouldn't have thought aged 27 he justifys being called a lad still learning after around 18 tests you should expect better also ln our 2016 summer Sri Lanka were poor and so we're Pakistan until the sun shone.
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Fair to assume we're not all going to agree on Woakes.
Some of us think he's pretty good (myself included)
Some of us don't think he's worth a rub.
Maybe we can all agree he has nice hair?
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India did well on a flat pitch. Must say, England got much better pitches than what New Zealand got for their 3 test matches.
After 9 sessions, England did not manage to win any in my opinion, says a lot how England has played in this test match. India has been ahead in all departments, even the pace bowlers did well with 5 wickets in first inning and 0 for English pacers. Spinners look ordinary compared to Indian spinners. All signs that England not at par.
Buttler playing as a batsman??? You guys dont have anyone better??? :D He is good in limited overs but playing him as a batsman doesnt seem to be wise if england has to put up a fight and for future development of the team.
I am still disappointed with Indian batters even though they managed to get a big lead. One of the top 5 should have got a big 100 on this flat pitch against ordinary bowling.
Huge pressure on Rahane, he is lot better....
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Javant has been a surprise pick for many. As his domestic stats don't really stand out.
However his performed reasonably well?
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England look to have gone mentally to me, this will be 4-0.
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Javant has been a surprise pick for many. As his domestic stats don't really stand out.
However his performed reasonably well?
It was a surprise. I was expecting Karun Nair, Abhinav Mukund or Shreyas Iyer to get a chance ahead of him, all of them averaging around 50 or higher in first class.
Indian batting potential looks impressive if you add Rahul to that list.
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Yes that was the general view, that he was a surprise selection
However, his repaid the faith I guess?
Shreyas Iyer --- big things expected of this chap - although I hear his not set the world alight this season domestically at present?
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Here he comes to save the day!
Chris woakes.
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England getting bounced out in India..... 😑.
The fat lady is walking on stage!
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The irony of getting bounced out by the Indians. Just goes to show their pace bowlers have out bowled England's
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Sorry but you can't play these shots if your finger is broken. Why did he not open yesterday? He had 2 nets during the day and didn't field. Find it very bizarre
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50 for an injured hameed! Well batted that man. Well batted.
Just sat here thinking why anyone in that England set up thought duckett was a better choice to open than this guy. He's made for test cricket!
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Sorry but you can't play these shots if your finger is broken. Why did he not open yesterday? He had 2 nets during the day and didn't field. Find it very bizarre
Maybe it wasn't his choice. He's still 19, maybe the England management were a tad scared to put him out there, and him netting was him trying to prove them wrong?
Not sure we will ever know mind.
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Run the first one hard!!
Both sauntered that first half a run there. Sprint damn it. Village.
Well batted root, woakes and hameed.
Not sure buttler was what we needed at that time. But he's probably had a better test match than many Englishman here.
Now can we rock a few out before they kneocl these off?
For as poor as I think England have been in this and the last test, I don't think India have been very special. They should be trouncing us by innings we are playing that badly in there own back yard.
If they have an injury to kohli, pujara or Ashwin. They be screwed.
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Chris Woakes is rubbish, I can't believe he was allowed to open the bowl... Got him!! Wicket for Woakes ;)
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I really just dont think the english batters are pulling there weight yes the indian`s shouldn't of got a massive lead , so slighty poor bowling but in every test match there is the common factor of a batting collapse , and in bangladesh , also if the Indians played in england they would get hammmered
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brilliant stuff from Hameed broken finger or not
we needed another 100 runs but we are just short in every game to put India under pressure
still we need to battle....and a wicket for SPOTY :)
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(https://s17.postimg.org/3uo6htr8v/jimmy.png)
(https://s14.postimg.org/zeue3qprl/broad.png)
Only just seen these Broad Anderson comparisions don't get it Woakes is an allrounder isn't he.
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Funny the fine lines that separate isn't it? 350 in our first innings and knocking India's tail over for 30 runs less and bingo - they're chasing 200.
Difficult to see what England's best bowling line up is - Stokes and Rashid are taking wickets, Woakes, Anderson, Ali are steady and unthreatening. Ansari and Batty a little short of the pace.
Going a bit left-field for the next test, injuries permitting, how about an attack of:
Broad
Ball
Stokes
Moeen
Rashid
Root
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The irony of getting bounced out by the Indians. Just goes to show their pace bowlers have out bowled England's
Wouldn't class bouncing Woakes and Rashid as better fast bowling.. India have just out thought England. With having the tests earlier against your guys the England management expected similar wickets and planned accordingly. The Indians then went on to produce slow low bouncing wickets that turn eventually.
Cue, England winning 2 tosses and with poor batting and unfortunately poor captaincy/management decisions we end up 2 down..
Some of the batting including "golden boy" Root has been very village. Where as the Indians have just played the surfaces and stuck around whilst still keeping the scores ticking over (helped by poor field settings) and just let England self implode.. Pretty impressive to be fair from the poisoned dwarf and his team...
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Pitch still looks flat, don't think another 100 runs would have made any difference. A bit of up and down bounce but hardly turning at all.
Even Patel is spanking it around!
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Definitely surprised England were "bounced" out in India here.
Shami bowling good heat on a "dead" track?
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I believe it just goes to show that you need quality spinners in India.... England fall very short in the spin category at the moment. The spinners have taken the majority of wickets in all test matches this series so far. The fast bowlers are just there to make up the numbers and take some shine off the ball so the spinners can do their thing
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India win by 8 wickets.
Thought cook blamed the loss in the last match on the toss, Can't use that excuse here.
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I think its feeble to blame losses on the toss. I believe some of the commentary team are also guilty of doing that.
Have to man up and admit the shortcomings. If they don't do that, they will never improve and compete in these conditions?
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I think its feeble to blame losses on the toss. I believe some of the commentary team are also guilty of doing that.
Have to man up and admit the shortcomings. If they don't do that, they will never improve and compete in these conditions?
exactly right....
I doubt very much anyone will blame the toss from England. England are second best going into this series and India are massively strong at home...
The bowlers have done a great job but we are not going to compete with 270 and 230 on the board
we need big runs.
thank god we have finally got our openers sorted after 2 wasted years. We have to fight back but im afraid the bare facts are not enough runs
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So hameed's heading home to get a plate in his finger, surely they'll call up a replacement batsman now.
Thought kohli at the presentation was pretty funny regarding the toss situation
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Wonder who the replacement will be? They have Gubbins, Jennings, Alsop and Bell-Drummond with the Lions.
Wouldn't be surprised if they call up a couple to cover the middle order too, with Westley and Clarke also with the Lions and Billings knocking around.
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I'd be excited by Billings if he were selected
But not sure he would be in the frame?
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pretty sure it will be one from Dubai and a specialist opener
Gubbings or Jennings.
Its a very tough ask but that is test cricket. Both of those guys would of been in the selectors thoughts I would think originally.
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It'll be Jennings, surely. Although the prospect of Billings opening the batting in tests is intriguing. Can we call up Hameed Snr as batting coach?
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Bayliss making no excuses whatsoever on interview.
and sounds like Hameed wanted to tape up his finger and play the last two tests
top lad, we may have lose but found a tough little so and so to open for us....hope fully for a long time
:)
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Well done VK and team. 2 more to go and should be easy.
I think playing at home makes lot of difference even if the pitches are not exactly what Indian team would have liked.
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Wonder who the replacement will be? They have Gubbins, Jennings, Alsop and Bell-Drummond with the Lions.
Wouldn't be surprised if they call up a couple to cover the middle order too, with Westley and Clarke also with the Lions and Billings knocking around.
Now England cannot win the series think ahead towards our summer give the lions a go Gubbions or Jennings and also Billings as the extra batsman lets see what they can do not much point picking balance or Duckett.
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Now England cannot win the series think ahead towards our summer give the lions a go Gubbions or Jennings and also Billings as the extra batsman lets see what they can do not much point picking balance or Duckett.
Yes.....but not sure what England will do re Balance and Duckett. I doubt very much they will want to be seen to be discarding either......
Vic Marks has written an article arguing for the fringe players to be sent home. Not sure myself what the right thing to do there would be....
England have to have an eye on the future,Duckett will play in the one dayers later but Balance wont....
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I hope the selectors never read this board, and I don't even like the selectors
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Not a Ballance fan, but sincerely hope they stick with Duckett. Hope he'll play at 4 in the summer. Let him learn test cricket in more familiar surroundings, with a view to him moving to the top of the order once Cook retires
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Yes.....but not sure what England will do re Balance and Duckett. I doubt very much they will want to be seen to be discarding either......
Vic Marks has written an article arguing for the fringe players to be sent home. Not sure myself what the right thing to do there would be....
England have to have an eye on the future,Duckett will play in the one dayers later but Balance wont....
Wouldn't discard them or send them home keep them there that way they will want it more nothing worse than not getting a game specially on tour.
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Yes.....but not sure what England will do re Balance and Duckett. I doubt very much they will want to be seen to be discarding either......
Vic Marks has written an article arguing for the fringe players to be sent home. Not sure myself what the right thing to do there would be....
England have to have an eye on the future,Duckett will play in the one dayers later but Balance wont....
If they are going to call someone up then Ballance might as well go home now... the 1st warm up for the one-dayers isn't until 10th Jan, so everyone will go home for Christmas anyway (last day of the 5th Test is 20th December).
Duckett can stay and carry on practicing for the one-dayers.
interestingly people saying about Billings - this was announced yesterday - i do realise an England call would change this!
https://twitter.com/SixersBBL/status/803357883928756224?lang=en
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England have a problem with left handers and the fact that the Indian spinners bowl far better to left handers Bell-Drummond is the only RH opening bat as I believe Jennings & gubbings are both LH but DBD has on,y played lions international and even though he is a Kent player which normally means in biased that's one hell of a step up.
Billings? Well why the hell not, except he isn't a specialist opnener but he has done very well any time he has played for England.
Compton? Opening maybe as left field but don't think he fits in the dressing room or team environment.
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Don't think an opener should have to be RHB just to nullify the effect of R Ashwin and J Yadav.
Cook(C)
Ali
Root
Bairstow(W/K)
Billings
Stokes
Buttler
Rashid
Broad
Ball
Anderson
Woakes is injured according to a few reports, if he's fit he takes Ball's place. Billings is said to be 'an exceptional player of spin' so if he plays bat him at #5 to build his confidence. Only three LHBs in top 7.
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Cook now saying they mis-read the pitch and conditions.
I think that is right, total credit to India, they are Number 1 in their home conditions and deserve 2-0 up......but we have got it wrong.
2 spinners, the best 2 which is rash and Ali and then the extra seamer would of been better.
but credit to India, they are strong at home.
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well the trouble is, the seamers they have played haven't been threatening?
ie if you look at the india seamers, they seem to have more zip and threat thus far... or am I been too harsh?
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well the trouble is, the seamers they have played haven't been threatening?
ie if you look at the india seamers, they seem to have more zip and threat thus far... or am I been too harsh?
I think myself Ball should have been in, he has extra pace and height, in place of one of the spinners.
but no, I agree with you, the Indian seamers have got more out of the pitches than we have.
That's a very good point, it's no good sugar coating it......we have been outplayed.
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Still don't understand why we are playing 6 bowlers to be honest... There's only so many overs in a day, 5 bowlers is plenty!
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Well I think the Indians are just better all round than England in them conditions...
They have 2/3 of the best players in them conditions in the world so they should be really.
However we march on and lets see some fight...
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Don't think an opener should have to be RHB just to nullify the effect of R Ashwin and J Yadav.
Rory Hamilton-Brown is a bold pick...😉
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How did we end up with so many left handed batsman? When I were lad, you had maybe 1 or 2 at most. I blame left handed scissors.
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All this talk of picking too many bowlers is a nonsense. We had a specialist batsman at 7! The top order simply didn't score enough runs in the first innings
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England paid the price for not getting enough runs in the first innings. 400 is a bare minimum in India and we were behind the eight ball from day one. Though the bowlers stuck at it well, especially Stokes and Rashid.
I think India's seamers have proved more threatening than England's as they are skiddy bowlers, rather than hit the deck. This is where Wood is badly missed by England on flatter wickets.
Moving forward I think England will call up Jennings as a replacement for the unlucky Hameed, and we will see Broad back in the side for Batty if fit.
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Its a difficult balance really - everyone fit, we have the resources to play seven batsmen, two all rounders and six bowlers.
Even then, we have been two top five batsmen light for some time now. And everyone isn't fit. So replacements are probably required, as is a rethink about the balance of the side.
I wouldn't risk Broad, so I reckon we have two "injury" replacements required, minumum, and I would be brave and bring three even if Woakes and Zafar are a possibility for the last game, using the argument that if it isn't working there is no harm making changes. All that we joked about Australia "doing a 90s England" there is something to be said for action.
So, in terms of certainties, we have:
Cook
Root
Ali
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler (be harsh to drop him and he showed something first time round)
Rashid
Anderson
In the squad, we also have Ballance, Duckett, Ball and Finn.
We certainly need someone to open, and I would like to see one more top order player brought over. Contenders? Jennings, Gubbins, Bell-Drummond, Lyth, Robson, Westley, Stoneman, Borthwick, Hales, Roy, Billings with the bat. If we bring another bowler, I would look at either Bresnan, a good all round option who bowls reverse and cut well, or take a punt on Sam Curran - it'd be an experience for him if nowt else.
What would I do? At the risk of critique, my side would be:
Cook
Westley
Root
Bairstow
Roy
Stokes
Ali
Buttler
Rashid
Anderson
Ball
I am not saying that Roy and Westley are the best players - long term I'm pro-Duckett - but the former is a good attacking option and a practical dead rubber is as good a chance as any to see how he suits the five day game. Westley....it'll be intriguing to see him kn division one next year, but his decent off spin adds another bowling option and covers for the loss of a notional bowling resource.
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All this talk of picking too many bowlers is a nonsense. We had a specialist batsman at 7! The top order simply didn't score enough runs in the first innings
Batty was in the side because they thought the wicket would turn on day five and weren't confident how Rashid would bowl.
After the first innings batting England were always chasing the game.
I think they will look at the wicket in Mumbai and if they feel it will spin now Rasid has shown that he can do the job play him and Moen and. Play the extra batsman even if it they think the wicket will seam
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The only way England can hide bowling deficiencies is by having top order score big. Cook and Root have to do lot better, the only ones skilled enough to bat at the moment. Then ali, Stokes etc can chip in to that's the score to 400+.
Once you have 400+, the opposition bats under pressure and even ordinary bowlers (rashid and company) will look impressive. Learn from first test. Chopping and changing doesn't help mid series.
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I personally don't think we need more than 5 bowlers ever. So 3 seamers and two spinners the way to go. If (No Swearing Please) hits the fan bowl root.
I'd rather have root bowl ten overs an innings and a proper batsmen in there than batty/ansari bowling ten and batting 9/10 or 11.
So if we say our bowlers are Anderson, stokes, ball, rashid and Ali. And bairstow root and cook are definates. That leaves 3 spots.
I don't think another opener is the solition.... so let root do that.
My side
Cook
Root
Ali
Bairstow
Duckett
Stokes
Buttler
Billings
Rashid
Anderson
Ball
Is ducket mentally shot? Maybe. But give the lad another go. Keep him in the middle order and tell him you back him!
Keep buttler in there as well, if bairstow is shagged he could stump(extreme circumstances only on jobs call) and did okay Ish. Very Ish.
Billings in as to me he is our best spin player(albeit in the shorter formats) and Ashwin is our biggest threat!!
I expect no one to agree with me. Flame suit on.
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@smilley792 as much as that all makes sense I can't help but feel picking someone to only bat at 8 is utterly village
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@smilley792 picking someone to only bat at 8 is utterly village
Agree.
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@smilley792 as much as that all makes sense I can't help but feel picking someone to only bat at 8 is utterly village
But we are village.......
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@smilley792 as much as that all makes sense I can't help but feel picking someone to only bat at 8 is utterly village
Proper answer to that.
We don't need a sixth bowler! Ever. And with Ali and stokes both bowlers and batting in the top 6, what else do you do? Our batting is so so poor at moment.
So You either have a specialist number 8, drop stokes or Ali to 8, or carry an extra bowler just for the laugh.
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In short - this is what happens when u do not take your best spinners to India.
The volume of cricket coming thick & fast makes it a squad game like never before.
Batsmen from Cook Hameed Hales Root Roy Billings Jennings & Duckett
All Rounders from Stokes Ali Bairstow Buttler Willey & Woakes
Bowlers from Jimmy, Broad, Wood, Rashid, Ball & Leach
That would be my squad - cannot see how Batty/Finn/Ballance get in ahead of any of the above...
Morgan will be ODI skipper till post Champions Trophy
Missed a big trick not having a decent left arm orthodox a la Panesar
If all were fit I think you only need to decide...
How many spinners?
Who bats 3 & 5 because Root must bat 4!!!
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Hales has had the call apparently.
i may have made that up, but watch it happen.
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I would do the opposite to most.
Bringing a guy up on debut in India in a test series we have no hope of winning when we know we will start our next series with Hameed anyway is pretty harsh on a young guy who will have played little cricket in the last month or two.
I'd open with a Bell for two tests or say to Duckett, go on have another pop. Like a Carberry type selection a few years ago, which always felt like a stop gap for Robson after they convinced him to declare for England.
Some just mentioned Hales, that is just as good.
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Hales has had the call apparently.
i may have made that up, but watch it happen.
What to find Samits phone number?
I'd be more convinced by the Tubby pie chucker who can at least score some runs in India, unlike most of the other options. Ansari has made Samit look a world class spin option so far.
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Samit Patel is a very decent cricketer. I don't care if he is a bit round.
I grew up watching cricket in the 80 s God knows we had loads of barrel chested players back then ! :)
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I personally don't think we need more than 5 bowlers ever. So 3 seamers and two spinners the way to go. If (No Swearing Please) hits the fan bowl root.
I'd rather have root bowl ten overs an innings and a proper batsmen in there than batty/ansari bowling ten and batting 9/10 or 11.
So if we say our bowlers are Anderson, stokes, ball, rashid and Ali. And bairstow root and cook are definates. That leaves 3 spots.
I don't think another opener is the solition.... so let root do that.
My side
Cook
Root
Ali
Bairstow
Duckett
Stokes
Buttler
Billings
Rashid
Anderson
Ball
Is ducket mentally shot? Maybe. But give the lad another go. Keep him in the middle order and tell him you back him!
Keep buttler in there as well, if bairstow is shagged he could stump(extreme circumstances only on jobs call) and did okay Ish. Very Ish.
Billings in as to me he is our best spin player(albeit in the shorter formats) and Ashwin is our biggest threat!!
I expect no one to agree with me. Flame suit on.
Decent team but would bring in a speclalist opener for Duckett and bat Moen at eight
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I'd be more convinced by the Tubby pie chucker who can at least score some runs
The motives for your 3 hour bat against the bowling machine are becoming clearer... ;)
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Tubby pie chucker
Does nobody else see the irony in this?
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Does nobody else see the irony in this?
It probably went over Nick's head
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We don't have to have a specialist no 8 bat, but having an extra batsman does at least benefit the team, whereas having Gareth Batty as specialist fine leg doesn't. If we want solidity to the top order, Moeen is not the answer, so he moves back down the order and does a proper bowling shift rather than filling in.
Cook
Insert opener from lions here
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Insert promising middle order prospect here
Buttler
Moeen
Woakes/Broad/Ball
Rashid
Anderson
Jog the odd batting spot around if needed/depending on who comes in, but that looks a lot more logical to me. Only downside is I imagine Moeen would take being dropped back down to 8 quite badly...
edited because I can't count.
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@edge ...you've picked 12?
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Really do feel like the selectors have made a Horlicks of this!
Personally I don't know why Mo leapfrogged YJB and Stokes in the first place. His ton in the 1st test makes it look a good decision, but now moving him back again seems preposterous. The fact that YJB is now batting 5 anyway makes it look even more absurd.
Mo at 8 as a bowling all-rounder makes the team look more balanced to me, but still feels wrong now that he's had a stint at 3,4,5
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@edge ...you've picked 12?
🙈 dammit, all these bowlers confusing me! Lose one of the 3 specialist seamers.
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@edge you only picked 2 specialist seamers..
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@edge you only picked 2 specialist seamers..
I edited it to take one out, there's 11 now.
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No was batting too low down not long ago at 8 and now he's batting too high!
News of replacementS in 10 minutes! That capital letter being the key part. Rumour has it Ansari is a goner due to his back problem.
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BBC have Jennings being called up today.
may be just there as cover someone how I cant see England throwing a new player straight into a test.
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Another left hander...
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Duckett has tweeted asking if it's cold in England! Looks like he's going home!
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Duckett has tweeted asking if it's cold in England! Looks like he's going home!
I saw this, and he's replied now saying it was only because of the Snapchats he was seeing, not that he was going home.
Great time to put up something like that Ben haha!
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Think Duckett Should stay off twitter, clearly not the smartest person. He should retweet that reverse sweep pic again ;)
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Basically a couple of batters aren't firing and the 3rd spinner is broken. From that situation, in India, it's almost impossible to balance your XI up, unless one of those players comes good.
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he's clearly got a bit of personality which might help him going forward
I think he has a bright future long term. looking at Athertons article on Sky yesterday, he has Duckett back in the team opening or middle with sam billings in also, Root up top if Duckett goes 4
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Dawson and jennings in for hameed and ansari
Did anyone in here predict Dawson? I can't remember reading it
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Dawson and jennings in for hameed and ansari
Did anyone in here predict Dawson? I can't remember reading it
yes mentioned in you go back far enough before the series... but in truth i'm not sure we have 3 high class spinners in the Country to pick from
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yes mentioned in you go back far enough before the series... but in truth i'm not sure we have 3 high class spinners in the Country to pick from
I was referring to call ups and replacements.
People on twitter already slagging off his Fc figures
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Don't see why England don't pick an extra batsmen?
So the bowling attack could be:
Anderson
Stokes
Ball
Ali
Rashid
and then 6 batters:
Cook
Root
Bairstow
Butler
Duckett?
another
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I was referring to call ups and replacements.
People on twitter already slagging off his Fc figures
it's the third spinner that has caused us problems here hasn't it.
rash and Ali are shoe-in's. its trying to get the third one in who is good enough
as ive said I think we would be better playing another seamer. Or as wasted mentions below...maybe even an extra batsman
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Interesting to note, that even Ravi Shashtri suggested England should play the extra batsmen...
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Calling up Jennings surely means he plays. Agree that we should have called up an extra batsman rather than another allrounder.
Would imagine the next test will look like:
Cook
Jennings
Root
Ali
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Rashid
Anderson
Ball
Batty and Ali bowled 35 overs combined in the last test. May as well just have Ali bowl those overs and add in a bit of Joe Root and stick with what works. Allows the seamers to rotate more especially with Cook having more faith in Rashid now.
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Possibly looking at Dawson to provide a steady economical bit of control, rather than rip through the side, although I think he might be a pleasant surprise. There's something about him, and maybe he will surprise everyone given a turning surface - he's apparently a very bright, thinking cricketer and I think Farbrace rates him from what he's seen.
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I would do the opposite to most.
Bringing a guy up on debut in India in a test series we have no hope of winning when we know we will start our next series with Hameed anyway is pretty harsh on a young guy who will have played little cricket in the last month or two.
I'd open with a Bell for two tests or say to Duckett, go on have another pop. Like a Carberry type selection a few years ago, which always felt like a stop gap for Robson after they convinced him to declare for England.
Some just mentioned Hales, that is just as good.
now England can't win the series
Bringing the lions into the team is a tremendous opportunity for them or Billings to show what they can do Bell is a backward step and there's little point in this series exposing Duckett to The bowling of Ashwin.
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Calling up Jennings surely means he gets thrown in - however is it opening with Cook or does Root open and you ease him in lower down the order, as he hasn't played etc...
On the Dawson call up - as much as i agree that Dawson has something about him - if we are replacing our third spinner and they want a left armer - surely you have to call up Jack Leach don't you?
I think the side picks itself again really - due to the selectors making a muck up of it from the start -
Cook
Jennings
Root
Mo
Bairstow
Stokes
Butler
Woakes
Rashid
Anderson
Ball/Dawson (Dawson not batting at 11 obviously) - dependent on the pitch in Mumbai - personally i would go with Ball
Considering previous games you can't pick Batty, Duckett or Ballance so you aren't left with much choice.
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Could it be possible, looking into the further with a lots of ifs and buts that we could have three openers for 2 spots and cook misses out?
If his form drops and has stepped down from skipper with hammeed proving himself at this level pretty much already and Jennings comes in and does really wel that by the end of the English summer our openers will be hammeed and Jennings?
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Isn't Jennings a Saffa?
The decision to select him becomes clear, old habits die hard and all...
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Isn't Jennings a Saffa?
The decision to select him becomes clear, old habits die hard and all...
Renshaw was unavailable.... ;) ;) ;)
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Renshaw was unavailable.... ;) ;) ;)
he's more English !!! :) :)
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he's more English !!! :) :)
precisely my point!
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precisely my point!
love it !!! :)
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Dawson? I just don't get it at all I'm afraid.
I'm all for picking on character, but surely you have to be a good enough standard of player to warrant a place in the squad first? He's not even the best spinner at Hampshire, and surely if you're picking 3 spinners (One who genuinely classifies as an allrounder, and one who can certainly hold a bat) then your third spinner you can afford to pick purely on spin bowling merit, not having to take into account his batting, fielding, his banter, if he's a good bloke, what school he went to, whether he mixes the drinks just right....
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Dawson is a shocking selection. Ansari was exposed as nothing more than bits and pieces. Now we call up an even more bits and pieces replacement. Dawson's bowling is nothing more than average.
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Would Samit Patel in hindsight(wonderful for us amateur selectors on forums) have been a idea.
seriously.....
:)
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Jack Leach should have gone IMHO
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We didn't need another spinner.
We have Rashid and Ali. More than enough(not saying there good enough though) batty as back up. We need no more.
They should have callled up two batsmen.
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We didn't need another spinner.
We have Rashid and Ali. More than enough(not saying there good enough though) batty as back up. We need no more.
They should have callled up two batsmen.
thats the exact reason Leach should have gone in the 1st place (give the youngster the experience of touring the sub-continent) and that they should have taken an extra batsman on the tour
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Jack Leach should have gone IMHO
I like an opinion expressed humbly.
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Jennings in my view should have gone originally instead of Duckett.
Jennings was pretty much the stand out in the top division last year in a poor Durham side.
Very good player who score runs all season against everybody.
Good player this lad maybe not English but hey he picked and I wish him well as he playing for his/my country.
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Woakes is likely to be fit for the next Test, and I fully expect him to play. Going forward I'd love us to be regularly fielding 4 seamers and 2 spinners. If two of these are genuine all-rounders, worth their places for their batting, then why not have six bowlers? You don't 'need' them? Rubbish! That's like saying the lower order don't need to be able to bat because the top order should do their job.
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now England can't win the series
Bringing the lions into the team is a tremendous opportunity for them or Billings to show what they can do Bell is a backward step and there's little point in this series exposing Duckett to The bowling of Ashwin.
Not really bothered who, Duckett/Hales/Lyth. My only thought is, Jennings scores a hundred. Does well, you've either then got to drop Hameed or drop the guy who just scored a hundred. Which is why I suggested a stop gap.
The flip side of that, Jennings has got a really tough job. Go to India, best team in the world at present, mid way through a series 2 - 0 down. If he fails, you've knocked his confidence. If you wanna blood a young lad I would prefer to do it against a weaker test side in England.
Either way is irrelevant now, hope he does well.
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Don't pick Jennings in case he scores a hundred? :o
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Don't pick Jennings in case he scores a hundred? :o
That is not what I said. I said I hope he does well. I think its a tough debut
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That is not what I said. I said I hope he does well. I think its a tough debut
If he does well, then Hameed will have to wait his turn to get back in rhe side, Or bat down the order. It would be a nice problem to have.
Of course it will be tough. It was tough for Hameed and Duckett.
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If Jennings performs then stick him in the middle order once Hameed is fit again
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I've not seen Keaton Jennings bat.
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If Jennings performs then stick him in the middle order once Hameed is fit again
Why?
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Jack Leach should have gone IMHO
Evidently Chris Rogers stated that Leach is not quite ready mentally yet, whatever that means!?
Could it be possible, looking into the further with a lots of ifs and buts that we could have three openers for 2 spots and cook misses out?
If his form drops and has stepped down from skipper with hammeed proving himself at this level pretty much already and Jennings comes in and does really wel that by the end of the English summer our openers will be hammeed and Jennings?
If Jennings proves a worthy and talented top order batsman, then how about we have the top 4 of Cook, Hameed, Jennings, Root once Hameed is repaired?
Why at him anywhere but the top order! We have been saying that we only seem to have 3 of the top 4 we are happy with at the moment? So IF Jennings is decent, we can ink in the following:
Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Ali
Stokes
Bairstow
Woakes (or Butler/Duckett if batsman needed)
Wood/Ball (if pace) Rashid/Dawson/Leach,etc (if spin)
Broad
Anderson
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Say Jennings does well, wouldn't Hameed, Jennings, Cook, Root make more sense?
This will be sacrilege to some of you, but before you get your swords out...
Cook is an excellent batsman but has struggled at the top of the order lately, yet his strike rate has risen significantly in the past year. He knows his game very well, and perhaps it is time (with an eye to the future), to settle into a more comfortable berth slightly lower down the order where he can pile on the runs (and add some spine), while Hameed and Jennings become the partnership for the future.
Regardless, this relies on Jennings doing well.
I just wonder if we are getting the most out of Cook right now- if he stays captain after this series then him dropping down the order might make sense, whilst if he goes then opening makes more sense...
Hameed
Jennings
Cook
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Buttler
Woakes/Wood/Rashid
Broad
Anderson
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Moving Cook to three is sensible, you could have root at three and cook at 4 too.
Fingers crossed Jennings does well, he has a very good technique to the quicks. No idea about spin though
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Not really bothered who, Duckett/Hales/Lyth. My only thought is, Jennings scores a hundred. Does well, you've either then got to drop Hameed or drop the guy who just scored a hundred. Which is why I suggested a stop gap.
The flip side of that, Jennings has got a really tough job. Go to India, best team in the world at present, mid way through a series 2 - 0 down. If he fails, you've knocked his confidence. If you wanna blood a young lad I would prefer to do it against a weaker test side in England.
Either way is irrelevant now, hope he does well.
Without doubt it's a tough ask but England found
Cook by calling him up from the lions to open in India as a replacement for Trescothick
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I think everyone"s getting way ahead of themselves again!
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I think everyone"s getting way ahead of themselves again!
isn't that what the 'CBF Selection Panel' is all about :D :D
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Without doubt it's a tough ask but England found
Cook by calling him up from the lions to open in India as a replacement for Trescothick
They didn't really find him. Everyone knew the openers spot had his name on it once there was a vacancy.
11000 runs later, I'm reading he might not actually be an opening bat!
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They didn't really find him. Everyone knew the openers spot had his name on it once there was a vacancy.
11000 runs later, I'm reading he might not actually be an opening bat!
Well he still had to prove he could step up!
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11000 runs later and people now decide Cook is a number 3. Mind blown
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I think it's more a case of how so we get 11000 test runs in if we have hammeed and Jennings playing well, cook is probably the better player to move than the other two!
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New levels!
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"I'm going to do something different with the batting order this week, chaps..."
We've all been there!
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i think its a good thing tbh, if we have 3 people for 2 spaces and an issue at 3 (which we have always had) why not use the most experienced guy in the team to plug a gap, yes ideally cook would open but if you have jennings and hammed who could well be our opening partnership for years to come and playing well why not keep them together and move cook.
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i think its a good thing tbh, if we have 3 people for 2 spaces and an issue at 3 (which we have always had) why not use the most experienced guy in the team to plug a gap, yes ideally cook would open but if you have jennings and hammed who could well be our opening partnership for years to come and playing well why not keep them together and move cook.
Let's wait until we're sure we've got one first, eh? Before we start wondering what we'll do if we've got two?
"England surplus opener problem"? I can't wait!
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i can see it.... in my crystal ball....
1 year from now.... 1st Ashes Test November 2017.... walking out to bat Hameed and Jennings....
with Cook, Root, Bairstow and Stokes to follow....
600-4 declared later.... lol
;) ;) ;) ;)
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"What a middle-order" etc.
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Lions cruising to victory today! Jennings 90* whilst skippering was the last update!
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Lions cruising to victory today! Jennings 90* whilst skippering was the last update!
I seem to remember Ben Duckett doing rather well for the Lions last year.
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Love George dobell's article on cricinfo; that he (jennings) is left handed isn't ideal...but 'ideal' left this tour a while ago.
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Love George dobell's article on cricinfo; that he (jennings) is left handed isn't ideal...but 'ideal' left this tour a while ago.
Ive just read that by co incidence. i'm not sure his inference is Andy Flowers influence is too strong in the team(thru the Lions), or that is the right way into the team, or because Bayliss does not see much County cricket.......the only real way into the team.
anyway...he seems to think it's being moulded by Flower still....
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Ive just read that by co incidence. i'm not sure his inference is Andy Flowers influence is too strong in the team(thru the Lions), or that is the right way into the team, or because Bayliss does not see much County cricket.......the only real way into the team.
anyway...he seems to think it's being moulded by Flower still....
And you can probably add to that the lack of faith in the selectors...
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nice confidence booster for Jennings.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38173524 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38173524)
interesting he is staying in Dubai for the 2nd game on Saturday, so that means he won't get to India until Saturday night/Sunday before playing Thursday.
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a ton is a ton I suppose, even if it is against the UAE
the forum is convinced he is going to play? not open with root and bring in a middle order player ? :)
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i can see it.... in my crystal ball....
1 year from now.... 1st Ashes Test November 2017.... walking out to bat Hameed and Jennings....
with Cook, Root, Bairstow and Stokes to follow....
600-4 declared later.... lol
;) ;) ;) ;)
thats score is possible only if they bat like Strauss, Bell, Trott and KP or these 4 get younger somehow and come back :D
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Moving Cook to three is sensible, you could have root at three and cook at 4 too.
Fingers crossed Jennings does well, he has a very good technique to the quicks. No idea about spin though
Wohhh!!! Thats suicidal. This has been tried multiple times with SRT, Lara etc and their performance dropped significantly.
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Wohhh!!! Thats suicidal. This has been tried multiple times with SRT, Lara etc and their performance dropped significantly.
When did Lara and Sachin open in test cricket?
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Moving Cook to three is sensible, you could have root at three and cook at 4 too.
Fingers crossed Jennings does well, he has a very good technique to the quicks. No idea about spin though
Cook is a proven opening bat that's were he needs to be leave the middle order to the shot makers.
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Cook is a proven opening bat that's were he needs to be leave the middle order to the shot makers.
Yes, he's done okay opening the innings. He has 10,307 runs at an average of 46.22 with 51 50's and 28 100's.
Cook also has a very decent record batting at 3. He has 578 runs at an average of 52.55 with 2 50's and 2 100's.
His strike rate is roughly the same in both these positions, at around 46.
However, statistically he should bat at 7 as he hasn't ever been dismissed batting here in Tests, and has a strike rate of just under 57!
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Yes, he's done okay opening the innings. He has 10,307 runs at an average of 46.22 with 51 50's and 28 100's.
Cook also has a very decent record batting at 3. He has 578 runs at an average of 52.55 with 2 50's and 2 100's.
His strike rate is roughly the same in both these positions, at around 46.
However, statistically he should bat at 7 as he hasn't ever been dismissed batting here in Tests, and has a strike rate of just under 57!
Awesome stats WW
Well thats that sorted, Woakes to open Cookie slips down with a bit of trundle throw in 'genuine allrounder'
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Awesome stats WW
Well thats that sorted, Woakes to open Cookie slips down with a bit of trundle throw in 'genuine allrounder'
With the ball Cook averages 7, with an economy of 2.33 and a strike rate of 18.
He'd run through batting orders for fun!
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When did Lara and Sachin open in test cricket?
They did not. the point was - changing batting position of batters who have batted in particular spot for a very very long time has not worked in past.
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Feels vetry similar to the gerrard lampard thing. Shoe horn everyone in.
The reality is the kid hast played yet. We have not got a great record of unearthing openners in test cricket right now. I would just wait see and dont have sich high expectations. As mentioned its a tough ask for the most talented cricketer.
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If Jennings does show he is good enough then I think Hameed has showed the versatility(admittedly only in a few innings) to bat at 3 . Probably wouldn't be a popular decision though for the reason others have already stated.
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God forbid an opener could bat at three. I mean it has never worked before, other than when cook was 3, or Root at 3 or Michael Vaughan at 3 or Mark Butcher at 3.
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God forbid an opener could bat at three. I mean it has never worked before, other than when cook was 3, or Root at 3 or Michael Vaughan at 3 or Mark Butcher at 3.
Did Cook bat at 3? I don't remember!
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Yes, he's done okay opening the innings. He has 10,307 runs at an average of 46.22 with 51 50's and 28 100's.
Cook also has a very decent record batting at 3. He has 578 runs at an average of 52.55 with 2 50's and 2 100's.
His strike rate is roughly the same in both these positions, at around 46.
However, statistically he should bat at 7 as he hasn't ever been dismissed batting here in Tests, and has a strike rate of just under 57!
Seem to recall him hitting sixes batting at seven
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So... 7. Cook 8. Buttler 9. Billings...
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Did Cook bat at 3? I don't remember!
Cook also has a very decent record batting at 3. He has 578 runs at an average of 52.55 with 2 50's and 2 100's.
His strike rate is roughly 46.
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If Jennings does perform well enough then that would be a very nice, but surprising and unexpected problem to have!
But back on the subject of the next Test, I would look at team similar to...
Cook
Jennings
Root
Ali
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Rashid
Ball
Anderson
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1.Cook
2. Jennings
3. Root
4. Ali
5 Stokes
6 Bairstow
7 Jos Butler
8 Liam Dawson
9 Adil Rashid
10. Chris woakes
11. Jimmy Anderson
Probably wont happen , what would your squad be ?
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For me, Ali is still too high at 4, and 3 spinners isn;t really working for us - I would prefer:
1.Cook
2. Duckett
3. Jennings
4. Root
5. Bairstow
6. Stokes
7. Jos Butler
8. Ali
9. Rashid
10. Ball
11. Anderson
Get Duckett in against the seamers as soon as possible, give Woakes a rest for this one and Jimmy for the next (they're pretty much interchangeable as non-wicket taking, holding bowlers), Ball must be itching for a go, and Rooty can't be any worse as the 3rd spinner, bowling perhaps 12 overs a day.
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For me, Ali is still too high at 4, and 3 spinners isn;t really working for us - I would prefer:
1.Cook
2. Duckett
3. Jennings
4. Root
5. Bairstow
6. Stokes
7. Jos Butler
8. Ali
9. Rashid
10. Ball
11. Anderson
Get Duckett in against the seamers as soon as possible, give Woakes a rest for this one and Jimmy for the next (they're pretty much interchangeable as non-wicket taking, holding bowlers), Ball must be itching for a go, and Rooty can't be any worse as the 3rd spinner, bowling perhaps 12 overs a day.
I get your point regarding Duckett but then why put an opener at 3 for that reason? Seems like your just getting people in without thinking about it.
As it goes, my team (maybe cynically) that I expect to be named is
Cook
Duckett
Root
Ali
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Broad
Rashid
Anderson
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Of course as a Durham lad I'd hope Jennings gets the game even if it does mean we could miss him in the summer if he goes well!!!
Just realised I've dropped Stokes down a place too!
I'd also like to see Ball get a go, but can't see it! Even if they were going to rotate a bowler Finn would get the gig probably even though he probably doesn't deserve it!
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This is probably why hales wasn't picked.
https://www.facebook.com/theroarsports/videos/10153812641656442/ (https://www.facebook.com/theroarsports/videos/10153812641656442/)
Lol.
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Duckett just got dropped and shouldn't come back in.
My team would be:
Cook (c)
Jennings
Root
Bairstow (wk)
Ali
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
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This is probably why hales wasn't picked.
https://www.facebook.com/theroarsports/videos/10153812641656442/ (https://www.facebook.com/theroarsports/videos/10153812641656442/)
Lol.
wow...feel bad for the guy! roughed up by melbourne uni guys
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wow...feel bad for the guy! roughed up by melbourne uni guys
also, someone needs to be fired for painting those crooked crease lines
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If Jennings does perform well enough then that would be a very nice, but surprising and unexpected problem to have!
But back on the subject of the next Test, I would look at team similar to...
Cook
Jennings
Root
Ali
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Rashid
Ball
Anderson
Is Jennings just another player not good enough for SA?
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Is Jennings just another player not good enough for SA?
You mean similar to Renshaw? Not sure really. I don't rate Elgar as an opening bat for SA. But just like Renshaw, I guess Jennings just wants to play for who he wants to play for!
And I doubt Jennings could have predicted that an opportunity like this would have presented itself when it did! But it could be fate!
Is Jennings good enough to cement his place? Unsure yet!! But it is the best chance he has and could have wished for! If he proves himself then I really believe that there is a place in the top 4 for him. By chance we have 3 players now, as it doesn't look like Duckett is quite ready for this format at this level yet, so his loss could be Jenning's gain?
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Is Jennings just another player not good enough for SA?
:D :D :D
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You mean similar to Renshaw? Not sure really. I don't rate Elgar as an opening bat for SA. But just like Renshaw, I guess Jennings just wants to play for who he wants to play for!
And I doubt Jennings could have predicted that an opportunity like this would have presented itself when it did! But it could be fate!
Is Jennings good enough to cement his place? Unsure yet!! But it is the best chance he has and could have wished for! If he proves himself then I really believe that there is a place in the top 4 for him. By chance we have 3 players now, as it doesn't look like Duckett is quite ready for this format at this level yet, so his loss could be Jenning's gain?
No not really similar to Renshaw at all as Renshaw didn't really have a choice after moving here at such a young age and signing a contract with Qld straight out of school and made his debut in Australia :D :D :D
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Duckett just got dropped and shouldn't come back in.
My team would be:
Cook (c)
Jennings
Root
Bairstow (wk)
Ali
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
Bairstow to keep and bat 4?? 🤔🤔🤔
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TMS doing Jennings all sorts of favours here... https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/806046687001276416 (https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/806046687001276416)
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TMS doing Jennings all sorts of favours here... https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/806046687001276416 (https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/806046687001276416)
Maybe he took Ben Duckett's advice:
"if in doubt, reverse sweep" :-[
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interesting 1st press conference as well....
""At the moment, I'm feeling very comfortable and very English, despite my accent."....
http://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/12173/10685175/keaton-jennings-says-ben-stokes-has-helped-break-ice-with-england-team-mates (http://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/12173/10685175/keaton-jennings-says-ben-stokes-has-helped-break-ice-with-england-team-mates)
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interesting 1st press conference as well....
""At the moment, I'm feeling very comfortable and very English, despite my accent."....
[url]http://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/12173/10685175/keaton-jennings-says-ben-stokes-has-helped-break-ice-with-england-team-mates[/url] ([url]http://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/12173/10685175/keaton-jennings-says-ben-stokes-has-helped-break-ice-with-england-team-mates[/url])
not sure what being 'very english' means, perhaps he likes fish and chips and a nice cup of tea.
Difficult area who qualifies for England because whatever option someone has(me for example) you could quote another player who may not qualify to play for us under different circumstances.
to highlight what I mean, I don't think if you gave played representative cricket for a Country as an adult, you should be able to 'switch' Countries.....
So take the example of Jonathan Trott, one of my favourite England players, to my knowledge, he played for SA U-19'S...but he has an English parent. Robin Smith also played U-19 or U-18 i believe and he's up there as a favourite too.
tricky subject. :)
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Difficult, isn't it. In the recent examples, you have Renshaw, who is as Yorkshire as they come but has grown up in Australia from the age of ten (though from what I hear does not hold an Australian passport), and Jennings, who has played age group cricket for South Africa but who has a British mother and strong roots here. Neither is massively offensive - they both have close ties to the country they have chosen to represent, so its hard to judge them adversely.
By comparison, some in the past, like KP, Symonds and Trott, who were going back through the generations to qualify, look more cynical.
As a whole, I think cricket has things more or less right - certainly compared to Rugby Union, where most national sides take their colours less as a badge of allegiance and more as a loose starting point for negotiations. In recent years, Ireland and Scotland have openly recruited from Super Rugby to fill their problem positions on a three year residency farce, whilst Australia and the great All Blacks use the same opportunities to fill out their sides with numerous pacific islanders.
The recent Australian tourists had 13 (if you include injury call ups):
Tonga - Latu, Timani
Fiji - Naivalu, Kerevi, Naiyaravoro, Speight, Kuridrani
South Africa - Haylett-Petty
Zimbabwe - Pocock
New Zealand - Houston, Cooper, Faulkner, Lealifano
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By comparison, some in the past, like KP, Symonds and Trott, who were going back through the generations to qualify, look more cynical.
KP has a British mother so he didn't need to go back far.
Trott did have to go back as his family were British decent. Symonds, although he was born in Birmingham and I believe he had British adoptive parents? His real parents were a mix of West Indian and Scandinavian? But as he moved with his adoptive parents to Aus at an early age. It is a real shame about Symonds - I used to enjoy his style of play and if he had of knuckled down then I believe that he could have become a brilliant all-rounder of the game! But he seemed to struggle controlling his aggression which did lead to controversy on a number of occasions. I always thought he wasted his natural talent! :(
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Trott's Dad is English.
Symmonds struggled to cope with being a pro sportsman and his love of going out in the lash.
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Trott and KP indeed had at least one English parent.
Symonds whatever fishing trips he went on or nightclubs he visited will always be my favourite Birmingham Aussie for shoulder barging a nude streaker during a one day match in Oz.
The streaker hit the floor heavy and was lucky to still have his dangly bits in tact.
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There is an error in your arguments here gents - both Trott and KP had parents who held British passports - but as far as I'm aware, both had the documents on a hereditary basis, rather than being born and bred as were the others mentioned.
Symonds was a favourite of mine too Pete - so much talent. I remember watching the 2005 ODI where the whole crowd were heckling the Aussies with "your best player is a Brummie"
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There is an error in your arguments here gents - both Trott and KP had parents who held British passports - but as far as I'm aware, both had the documents on a hereditary basis, rather than being born and bred as were the others mentioned.
Symonds was a favourite of mine too Pete - so much talent. I remember watching the 2005 ODI where the whole crowd were heckling the Aussies with "your best player is a Brummie"
Ah....well you may well be right. :) I def thought KP had a parent born here.
But as u mentioned cricket of all the sports has got it pretty much right. I don't particularly agree with the Kepler weasels situation or ..stand to be corrected but Imran Tahir I think has played for two different Countries too....but on the whole the qualification for cricket here seems pretty fair generally speaking.
I often get ribbed by my Pakistan and Indian mates who do things very differently when it comes to representing the national side goes thou
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The Curran brothers is an interesting one for me. Both brilliant cricketers and probably future England stars.
Both of them brought up in Zimbabwe and SA until 2012 so Tom only completed his residency qualification in October but because Sam was born in Northampton he doesn't need to.
They are brothers :( :(
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Comedy from Joe Root....
https://twitter.com/snapperhead333/status/806169656494960641
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Ah....well you may well be right. :) I def thought KP had a parent born here.
But as u mentioned cricket of all the sports has got it pretty much right. I don't particularly agree with the Kepler weasels situation or ..stand to be corrected but Imran Tahir I think has played for two different Countries too....but on the whole the qualification for cricket here seems pretty fair generally speaking.
I often get ribbed by my Pakistan and Indian mates who do things very differently when it comes to representing the national side goes thou
The weasels situation was perhaps a bit different given his lack of another route to international cricket - similar to Pocock in Union, hard to blame the guy who has no other route to the top.
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Bit old but nice read - http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/1070481.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/1070481.html)
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Jennings is definitely playing as expected, but now confirmed.
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yes he is in, at least Jennings is in form. :)
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I do wish our top order wasn't so left hand heavy
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i was thinking i wonder whether Jennings may get a bowl?
he turns his arm over quite regularly for Durham (especially in one day/T20 stuff) and although it's obviously not the most threatening it would give other bowlers a break and maybe handy in those conditions. I bit like Bell use to do.
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i was thinking i wonder whether Jennings may get a bowl?
he turns his arm over quite regularly for Durham (especially in one day/T20 stuff) and although it's obviously not the most threatening it would give other bowlers a break and maybe handy in those conditions. I bit like Bell use to do.
Not a bad shout. They did give James Vince a bowl over the summer after all!
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i was thinking i wonder whether Jennings may get a bowl?
he turns his arm over quite regularly for Durham (especially in one day/T20 stuff) and although it's obviously not the most threatening it would give other bowlers a break and maybe handy in those conditions. I bit like Bell use to do.
At one point he was played in short form games as a bowler and batting at 9/10/11. Useful containing type medium pacer like Collingwood. Don't think he has bowled as much in the long form but as you say it would be useful to break it up for the main seamers a bit
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Considering we're currently staring at 6 bowlers plus Root, I doubt it'll be necessary to give a 70mph part time seamer a go in India.
If we do, it's all gone to pot and we're getting pumped anyway!
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Jennings is certainly no worse than Ian Bell and Jonathan Trott, both of whom were given the odd few overs to break things up - but he is more likely to get a go in English conditions.
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8 day break between test #3 and #4? 25 day break between Test and ODI series? Those are long breaks; no wonder Virat Kohli is ticked about it.
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Tbf India got quite a break the last time they played here by losing in 3 days
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Tbf India got quite a break the last time they played here by losing in 3 days
yeah!!
at least we are taking the games 'deep' :)
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TBH if Jennings is capable of blocking up an end, then I'd be happy to go 3 + 3 in the bowling department.
Elsewhere the series continues to claim injury victims by the Test. Walking wicket Rahane out of the final 2 Tests with hand injury. And Shami is also carrying a knee injury. Manish Pandey could debut or Nair gets another go
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Side note; England A playing in the UAE today - good runs for Ben Foakes and Tom Westley. But...I'm confused. Worcestershire's Joe Clarke, who is a superb prospect with the the bat, is listed as keeping ahead of Foakes. Odd as Worcestershire don't even give him the gloves...
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/1069646.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/1069646.html)
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Side note; England A playing in the UAE today - good runs for Ben Foakes and Tom Westley. But...I'm confused. Worcestershire's Joe Clarke, who is a superb prospect with the the bat, is listed as keeping ahead of Foakes. Odd as Worcestershire don't even give him the gloves...
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/1069646.html[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/1069646.html[/url])
I noticed this during the List A game but Clarke has kept previously. Foakes had the gloves for the first 2 List A games and then Clarke for the last I think but surely Foakes has the gloves for the 4 day game..? Guess we will find out tomorrow!
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Nick Gubbins down as skipper too?
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I noticed this during the List A game but Clarke has kept previously. Foakes had the gloves for the first 2 List A games and then Clarke for the last I think but surely Foakes has the gloves for the 4 day game..? Guess we will find out tomorrow!
How many keepers do we need?
holy moly everyone wants the gloves these days keepers are like London buses
:)
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Nick Gubbins down as skipper too?
That'll be right, he skippered the last 50 over game after Jennings left.
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How many keepers do we need?
holy moly everyone wants the gloves these days keepers are like London buses
:)
England could easily pick an 'all keeper' top 6 based on the players in the full or Lions squads this winter. I'm sure there are others not in the squads who could easily fill in as a batsman and/or keeper!
Duckett
Billings
Clarke
Bairstow
Foakes
Buttler
Nick Gubbins down as skipper too?
I saw on Cricinfo Gubbins was down as skipper but according to the ECB site and Twitter Toby Roland-Jones is in charge
https://twitter.com/englandcricket/status/806382225218539520 (https://twitter.com/englandcricket/status/806382225218539520)
https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/154199 (https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/154199)
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Duckett
Billings
Clarke
Bairstow
Foakes
Buttler
Add in Adam Wheater, Stephen Davies, maybe Even John Simpson. And then James Foster or Andy Hodd as a specialist gloveman...
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Touch wood, but Jennings can bat. 50 on debut.
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Well batted Jennings. Nice debut.
Him and Warner have done well he..... wait that's Cook being aggressive!!!
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Don't worry, he's taken his Warner mask off and done something silly.
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Don't worry, he's taken his Warner mask off and done something silly.
It looked well and truly on as he charged down the pitch and tried to oil it through midwicket.
Although I'd have expected Warner to be more successful as that's his game, cook got nowhere near it.
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Let's wait until we're sure we've got one first, eh? Before we start wondering what we'll do if we've got two?
"England surplus opener problem"? I can't wait!
Have we waited long enough? Lol. We got one in Jennings!!!(he's atleast in good nick currently)
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Have we waited long enough? Lol. We got one in Jennings!!!(he's atleast in good nick currently)
Ha, you all laughed at my Cook to number 3 remarks... I might not end up being a million miles off!
I really, really hope Jennings goes on to get his ton here, he has plenty of time!
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Batted newbie, looks a very good player from what I have seen this morning
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Yes well batted, not much foot movement a bit like tresco style.
Looks a good wicket to bat first on,normally spins a lot later on
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If Jennings does perform well enough then that would be a very nice, but surprising and unexpected problem to have!
But back on the subject of the next Test, I would look at team similar to...
Cook
Jennings
Root
Ali
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Rashid
Ball
Anderson
I think it looks a good ballance as fingers crossed that Ball bowls well so that they have a choice when broad is fit again
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I'm concerned about Root, I really think he needs a break.
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Dropped on 0, he's made the most of it. Then again the pitch is another road. India ruining test cricket again preparing these flat tracks ;)
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Yes England really needed Root this series,he has been disappointing
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We are fickle.
Are we really turning on root?
Despite that it may be a tour a tad below his normal returns, he is still England's top run scorer in this series!!
That includes a very gutsyl 80 odd, while openeing, due to hameed's injury in a 4th innings rescue a draw attempt
His last inning before this!
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Dont think anyone is turning on Root,he is a fab player. This is a big series and he has looked in no trouble at all every innings.
Im 100 per cent sure he himself wants to turn starts into hundreds.
The best players set the bar higher than we can imagine.
Its very early for Jennings but when everyone is fit and presume cook stays opening Root could go back to 4
Ali has looked a bit high to me this series, hes very effective lower down
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I am enjoying this
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which one of hammeed and Jennings could bat 4?
That would potentially give us an option as both have proved they can bat and look the part
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which one of hammeed and Jennings could bat 4?
That would potentially give us an option as both have proved they can bat and look the part
Cook, Jennings, Hameed, Root.... That's how I see it going forward.
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Yes England really needed Root this series,he has been disappointing
Yeah, he's only averaged 49.83 this series before this game with 2 x 50's and 1 x 100, about time he pulled his finger out!
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which one of hammeed and Jennings could bat 4?
That would potentially give us an option as both have proved they can bat and look the part
Would you not just move Root down one spot and bat either of the lads at three?
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could do as Jennings seems to play freely and hammeed has some shots so its not like when it was cook Compton trott in top 3
for me the best player bats 3/4 usually so I'm all for it
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Would you not just move Root down one spot and bat either of the lads at three?
That would make most sense.
Cook, Hameed, Jennings, Root would be your top 4.
I still believe Root isn't as comfortable at 3 and would shift to 4 happily. Jennings looks positive enough to fill that number 3 role well and in the way Bayliss wants a number 3 to play.
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Cook, Jennings, Hameed, Root.... That's how I see it going forward.
could you not split the left handers up with Jennings at 3
hameed got good runs opening as well but then again Jennings has got a 100
tough call glad I'm not the one making it and no one listens to me
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which one of hammeed and Jennings could bat 4?
That would potentially give us an option as both have proved they can bat and look the part
Personally I think Buzz had a good idea.. It won't happen but:
Hameed
Jennings
Cook
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
For me the top order will also be left, right, left, right combination. YJB deserves his chance to bat higher, hence why I didn't understand Ali coming in at 4 when YJB hasn't kept yet so will be fresh. Also stops the Indian bowlers getting into a rhythm of bowling to just left handers.
I just hope that they persist with these 2 youngsters as both have technical flaws that could be their downfall a few times but with both keeping away from the majority of one day cricket, could help them become test match fixtures for years to come.
It won't happen because the ECB will always find a way to mess it up...
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God bless South Africa
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Yeah, he's only averaged 49.83 this series before this game with 2 x 50's and 1 x 100, about time he pulled his finger out!
Great stats Keiran, but for me when he has been needed this series he has made wrong decisions. The run out of Haseeb, followed by a needless slog sweep when a score was more important than quick runs. In fact a few other needless dismissals over the last 12 months have shown he still has a lot to learn. Don't get me wrong, he is still.young and most of his shots you could put down to playing a lot of one day cricket but at the moment he should bat at 4. Doesn't matter what people say about KP the majority of the time he knew how to bat in a particular situation and that innings won us the match. Root has that potential but for me at the moment he is just making the wrong decision at important times. This is why the captaincy should go to Stokesy.. nothing really phases him and 9/10 he steps up to plate...
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Root is still quite obviously our best batsman, I was just saying that it looks like he needs a break- he doesn't seem his normal bubbly self, he's making some strange decisions and he looks exhausted.
I just think he needs a bit of a breather.
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Ah, your traditional English collapse
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Oh dear, 2 in the over...another england collapse coming? surely not
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How defensive is kohli, long on already back and both batsmen have just come in. Gosh thought cook was a bad captain
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That is exactly why Mo unfortunately can't carry on batting at 4. :( :( :(
Just has too many brain fades.
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I would do the opposite to most.
Bringing a guy up on debut in India in a test series we have no hope of winning when we know we will start our next series with Hameed anyway is pretty harsh on a young guy who will have played little cricket in the last month or two.
I'd open with a Bell for two tests or say to Duckett, go on have another pop. Like a Carberry type selection a few years ago, which always felt like a stop gap for Robson after they convinced him to declare for England.
Some just mentioned Hales, that is just as good.
after the way Jennings as Batted i doubt if he thinks it's harsh on him always felt that this series was set up just right for him a tremendous opportunity to show what he is capable of at test level
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Ashwin giving a offspinners masterclass now, beautiful bowling - reminds me of swanny. All over stokes so far
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That is exactly why Mo unfortunately can't carry on batting at 4. :( :( :(
Just has too many brain fades.
Spot on... India have not beaten England on ability this series so far. They have just out thought them and used their brains. If India had batted 1st they would have made sure they made 400+ by cutting out the needless shots.. I don't blame Jennings but Cook, Root and Ali very poor cricket shots considering they have had a week off in time to work on a plan and the little technical flaws like Root has of pushing at the spinners outside offstump..
England make 450+ and they have every chance of winning this test match. They also need to bat time as this pitch is behaving a little strange already so by end of tomorrow start of day 3, the England bowlers could be right in.the game...
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How defensive is kohli, long on already back and both batsmen have just come in. Gosh thought cook was a bad captain
Kohli is extremely defensive as a captain. It's silly how many times one ball goes for 4 and he puts a man out sweeping - it's club level ball following.
Obviously he'll learn as he grows into the role more, but I don't rate his captaincy much. Will be interesting how he reacts when India are away from home and under pressure. Hope he proves me wrong over time though - with his attitude as a player and a batsman I could see him becoming quite inventive and more aggressive.
I've never been keen on Cook's captaincy much either, although he has been a bit more inventive recently.
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Ashwin giving a offspinners masterclass now, beautiful bowling - reminds me of swanny. All over stokes so far
Agreed, but that's because the top order have given their wickets away and Stokesy has to play for the team and NOT how he should be playing and that's an attacking role with 320+ on board...
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Spot on... India have not beaten England on ability this series so far. They have just out thought them and used their brains. If India had batted 1st they would have made sure they made 400+ by cutting out the needless shots.. I don't blame Jennings but Cook, Root and Ali very poor cricket shots considering they have had a week off in time to work on a plan and the little technical flaws like Root has of pushing at the spinners outside offstump..
England make 450+ and they have every chance of winning this test match. They also need to bat time as this pitch is behaving a little strange already so by end of tomorrow start of day 3, the England bowlers could be right in.the game...
exactly right here guys. proper batsmen get you runs we cannot continue to expect the all rounders to bail us out playing an unnatural game.
Ali is a lower order batsman, a very good one, but a lower order one
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Oh Jesus Christ
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Any idea why every DRS review umpire uses the word "rock and roll it" - gosh its annoying everyone using it.
Oh dear 5 down, bairstow nails it straight to the man on the sweep. England Collapse is definitely on!
Bairstow's shot maybe pressure given how much stokes was struggling
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Watch the bounce johnny ho johnny ...
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Different pitch now somthing in it for the bowlers at both ends
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am i missing something here...
when i am batting against a spinner who is 6ft plus or is just getting a lot of bounce i always say to myself right put the sweep in the locker it's far too risky a shot.
now i absolutely realise the magnitude/pressure and difference of the situation etc... but the theory is still the same surely?
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am i missing something here...
when i am batting against a spinner who is 6ft plus or is just getting a lot of bounce i always say to myself right put the sweep in the locker it's far too risky a shot.
now i absolutely realise the magnitude/pressure and difference of the situation etc... but the theory is still the same surely?
Lol... It is the same and some of the shots played by most of England's top order in this series is shocking. Cook, trying to smash the 1st ball of a new bowlers spell, coming down the wicket 3rd ball of a bowlers 1st over!!! Etc etc.
Personally I don't blame YJB as he must be pissed off bailing his top order out these last 12 months...
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England cant have many toes left after shooting themselves in the foot so often in this series
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Both players getting extremely lucky here! Time both started playing some shots, looking to defend isn't working at all
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am i missing something here...
when i am batting against a spinner who is 6ft plus or is just getting a lot of bounce i always say to myself right put the sweep in the locker it's far too risky a shot.
now i absolutely realise the magnitude/pressure and difference of the situation etc... but the theory is still the same surely?
What you can do though is rather than not sweep get on top of the bounce and sweep along the ground rather than in the air...
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What you can do though is rather than not sweep get on top of the bounce and sweep along the ground rather than in the air...
Unfortunately, only Thorpe and Lamb have been able to play that type of sweep in last 30 years...☺☺
I do think though just like Kohli and Steve Smith can't play the moving ball, English batsmen don't play the sweep were they are getting on top of the ball.. Its something you don't see them practising as most see them see the sweep as an offensive shot that should clear the boundary, rather than a shot that can be used to milk singles and two's whilst putting the spinner off his line.
Rant over with...😬😬
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Unfortunately, only Thorpe and Lamb have been able to play that type of sweep in last 30 years...☺☺
I do think though just like Kohli and Steve Smith can't play the moving ball, English batsmen don't play the sweep were they are getting on top of the ball.. Its something you don't see them practising as most see them see the sweep as an offensive shot that should clear the boundary, rather than a shot that can be used to milk singles and two's whilst putting the spinner off his line.
Rant over with...😬😬
Thorpe lamb and now Jennings
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Thorpe lamb and now Jennings
I was impressed with him once he got over his nerves. I have a funny feeling though that he may have mastered the art of sweeping on a bouncy pitch whilst he was growing up in South Africa (same as Lamby). Sure also his dad is well thought of as a coach..
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Vaughan has(when hameed is back) jennings at 3 and root back to 4..
Jennings has only played one game but like hameed does not look out of place..
That line up makes us look a bit more solid,someone has to give way in the team but maybe that line up looks better going forward?
Not sure moving Cook would be beneficial...
All of a sudden we have openers!! :)
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Not sure what people's reasoning is moving Cook to 3? I mean he's only scored 10,000 runs batting 1/2
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Vaughan has(when hameed is back) jennings at 3 and root back to 4..
Jennings has only played one game but like hameed does not look out of place..
That line up makes us look a bit more solid,someone has to give way in the team but maybe that line up looks better going forward?
Not sure moving Cook would be beneficial...
All of a sudden we have openers!! :)
the person to give way would either be Butler - as Mo would drop back down to 7 or Rashid if you felt you wanted a longer batting line up etc...
Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Mo
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
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Not sure what people's reasoning is moving Cook to 3? I mean he's only scored 10,000 runs batting 1/2
his average and strike rate is better when he bats at 7 though.. i think @WalkingWicket37 posted stats earlier in this thread about him opening/at 3 and lower down to prove he can bat at 3
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Not sure what people's reasoning is moving Cook to 3? I mean he's only scored 10,000 runs batting 1/2
I think the reasoning is that as he has got older he may benefit from batting at 3 whilst also being able to concentrate on the captaincy. I am no expert but I would be interested in seeing his averages for the first 75% of his international career and then for the final 25% and see if there is any variation / decline to warrant moving him down the order.
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the person to give way would either be Butler - as Mo would drop back down to 7 or Rashid if you felt you wanted a longer batting line up etc...
Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Mo
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
6 bowlers?? For a game in the UK?? Could drop Mo, or more likely Rashid, for another batsman.
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I think the reasoning is that as he has got older he may benefit from batting at 3 whilst also being able to concentrate on the captaincy. I am no expert but I would be interested in seeing his averages for the first 75% of his international career and then for the final 25% and see if there is any variation / decline to warrant moving him down the order.
im not sure whether Cook wants to carry on skippering, but as a batsman he could, form permitting and presuming he does not want to go off and work on the farm, play for another....4 or 5 years?
Gooch did it and he's very much in the same mould....
whether he still has the desire and is batting well enough in a year or so's time no one knows.
but potentially he could play for quite a while yet.....
personally I think he will play as a batsman only after next years Ashes
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the person to give way would either be Butler - as Mo would drop back down to 7 or Rashid if you felt you wanted a longer batting line up etc...
Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Mo
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
Buttler give way ? He could well be the next England Captain..
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the person to give way would either be Butler - as Mo would drop back down to 7 or Rashid if you felt you wanted a longer batting line up etc...
Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Mo
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
I could go with that xi in all conditions as covers all bases and having a 7 8 9 of mo woakes Rashid gives you batting depth
mo becomes what he has always been a batsmen who bowls a bit of spin rather than the front line spinner then if he doesn't get the runs butler comes in or whoever as 7 is still a batsmen/all rounder place
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Buttler give way ? He could well be the next England Captain..
next captain will be root unless he turns it down surely
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Moeen averages 87 at 7 in the order. 3 of his 4 hundreds have been there so send him back. With his style of strokeplay it suits him coming in lower down at Test level.
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Moeen's a luxury. If we pick the best spinner it's not Moeen. I'd have Buttler over Moeen everyday of the week and twice on a Sunday. No need to have Moeen batting at 7 if he's a genuine batsman
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next captain will be root unless he turns it down surely
Personally, I think Root will do a Botham and be a worse player whilst captain.. It's captain Stokesy for me. Has shown maturity and a willingness to play for the team rather than himself over the last 6 months. Seems to thrive on pressure and the lads respect him.
Jos for one day and T20 asap. Natural born leader and another who seems to thrive on pressure..
Simple this selection lark!!
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Moeen's a luxury. If we pick the best spinner it's not Moeen. I'd have Buttler over Moeen everyday of the week and twice on a Sunday. No need to have Moeen batting at 7 if he's a genuine batsman
You are not a big fan are you... Personally I wouldn't bat him in the top 5. Look where gilchrist batted and Moen could have a similar impact but rather than keep Moen bowls his spin...
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You are not a big fan are you... Personally I wouldn't bat him in the top 5. Look where gilchrist batted and Moen could have a similar impact but rather than keep Moen bowls his spin...
Moeen's feasted on the terrible Sri Lankan attack to boost those stats #7. Buttler at #7 can single handily win matches(I'm not biased to Buttler at all...cough cough Somerset lad :D).
If Moeen is a front line batsman he has to bat in the top 5. Otherwise he carries the water.
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Bairstow?
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why does a front line batsmen have to bat in top 5?
for me top 7 can be batsmen it depends on who is around
Ideally you have all rounders at 6 and 7 I know but im happy playing stokes at 6 then batsmen at 7 especially one who gives you a bit with the ball
mo has been up and down like a pros knickers so hard to judge him but I think he would be good at 7 counter attacking as Butler has yet to prove himself in tests despite the undoubted talent
can you imagine stoke skipper going at kholi or smith
I can see both captains getting cards but would be fun to watch
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Moeen's feasted on the terrible Sri Lankan attack to boost those stats #7. Buttler at #7 can single handily win matches(I'm not biased to Buttler at all...cough cough Somerset lad :D).
If Moeen is a front line batsman he has to bat in the top 5. Otherwise he carries the water.
you have got too many cider apples in front of you Felix to see the full pint. :)
Look back thru the last couple of years, Mo has contributed significantly to our lower order batting, time and again he gets runs and not just against SL, try Australia at home for a start.
why do England insist on batting him too high? I really don't know. He wants to bat higher? yes.....but it suits the team to bat after bairstow and probably Woakes.
he has a lower order mentality batting and he wont change that.it's all between the ears, he wants to play shots and needs freedom lower down to do that, so does Stokes...
and up until this tour, he has been our best spinner available to us.
IMHO :)
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why does a front line batsmen have to bat in top 5?
for me top 7 can be batsmen it depends on who is around
Ideally you have all rounders at 6 and 7 I know but im happy playing stokes at 6 then batsmen at 7 especially one who gives you a bit with the ball
mo has been up and down like a pros knickers so hard to judge him but I think he would be good at 7 counter attacking as Butler has yet to prove himself in tests despite the undoubted talent
can you imagine stoke skipper going at kholi or smith
I can see both captains getting cards but would be fun to watch
Moeen isn't an all rounder, more bits and pieces. Only Stokes is a true all rounder. You pick your best players that can potentially win you matches. Rashid's improved bowling will win more matches than Moeen's occasional biff hidden down at #7.
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you have got too many cider apples in front of you Felix to see the full pint. :)
Look back thru the last couple of years, Mo has contributed significantly to our lower order batting, time and again he gets runs and not just against SL, try Australia at home for a start.
why do England insist on batting him too high? I really don't know. He wants to bat higher? yes.....but it suits the team to bat after bairstow and probably Woakes.
he has a lower order mentality batting and he wont change that.it's all between the ears, he wants to play shots and needs freedom lower down to do that, so does Stokes...
and up until this tour, he has been our best spinner available to us.
IMHO :)
Leachy baby will dispute the last statement :(
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Leachy baby will dispute the last statement :(
haha
:)
Taunton has been a road in the past, it wasn't this year...
but he's good, and a bit unlucky not to get on the India tour. Don't think your Captain Rodgers did him any favours saying he's not ready.
Unless of course Chris Rodgers is/was right and he needs another season
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Leachy baby will dispute the last statement :(
A few good judges of a player think it's a bit early for Leach yet. Let's see how he copes in lions games and in his follow up season. I still feel Moen has a place in.the current team and can't see who you would replace him.with and why. Any decent captain will tell you it's useful to have an.off spinner in your attack whatever the conditions..
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next captain will be root unless he turns it down surely
Roots favourite but Buttler is seen as the next Mike brearley the thinking cricketer With the knack of getting the best out of players on the field
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Roots favourite but Buttler is seen as the next Mike brearley the thinking cricketer With the knack of getting the best out of players on the field
Nnnooooo. Jos only one day... Test has to be Stokesy and from next series. Him and smith would bring new supporters to the game... :D
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England see something in Butler as he was straight in when Morgan pulled out of the one-dayers...
not sure about Tests thou. I would have Butler in the Test side myself but we are going to get crammed with Ball/Broad/Hameed...and now Jennings has had the ideal start.
it's certainly getting competitive for places....
as a slight aside.. Gary Balance? no way back I can see. He's a good player but.....maybe back to Yorks to get form back. I think myself he will now need to score massive to get a look.
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Nnnooooo. Jos only one day... Test has to be Stokesy and from next series. Him and smith would bring new supporters to the game... :D
Yes of course Ben would be a good choice to captain on the pitch but Jos is also about all the other stuff
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Something I'm my water tells me butler would be an excellent captain, stokes should be left to be a world class alrounder......botham, Flintoff captaincy ring any bells ?
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Jennings in my view should have gone originally instead of Duckett.
Jennings was pretty much the stand out in the top division last year in a poor Durham side.
Very good player who score runs all season against everybody.
Good player this lad maybe not English but hey he picked and I wish him well as he playing for his/my country.
As I was saying could have looked daft if he had held on mind!!!
Rate Jennings
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Something very old fashioned about his batting.
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Good innings by Jennings. Not many weaknesses and a natural stroke maker. Capitalized well after dropped at 0.
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These 2 have swung the match in england's favour. Match winning partnership in my opinion
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Commentators curse (tv or web) is real!
127.2
Ashwin to Ball, OUT
JT Ball c †Patel b Ashwin 31 (60b 4x4 0x6) SR: 51.66
127.1
Ashwin to Ball, no run, prods at a full ball outside off, takes his bottom hand off the bat...appears he wrenched his arm playing the previous shot
Chris in Taunto: "The downside of Buttler's controlled hitting is that he's almost run out of partners. When Ball goes he'll have no-one left because Anderson won't last long against Ashwin. When should he throw caution to the wind and lash out?" Well, the tactics have worked well so far. Seems he has trust in Ball. Waiting to see what the issue with Ball was on that last delivery
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400 all out. Good effort from buttler. Ashwin showing why he's the number one bowler and spinner
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400 all out decent effort that! Buttler a Jennings played really well moeen also
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Pretty good! Really impressed with butler always wanted him in if we could
Intelligent batting with the low order hes far more than just a hitter
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Nothing in it for the seamers...if the England spinners keep bowling this filth this total could look ordinary pretty quickly.
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Reading a lot of comments elsewhere about it being a mistake not to have played the 3rd spinner, but looking at what the 3rd spinners have contributed so far in the first 3 tests, Ball's part in that partnership has probably already put him ahead even if he doesn't bowl a ball.
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Has root bowled this series?
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Yeah you would think 2 spinners should do the job in spinning conditions, if it doesnt spin they wont be effective anyway.
So selection i think England have missed the boat the previous games
Ball is very useful unlucky not to get a game before this one
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Has root bowled this series?
4 overs 0 for 14.
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Bit worrying that England have no penetration with the ball and india have batting till number 10. England definitely need a breakthrough before close of play
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Rashid is bolwing some garbage
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That Last Ball From Rashid Was Short, Wide And Horrible.
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Decision to play 4 seamers looks more baffling by the over! Really liked what Boycott was saying on TMS that you've got to look at how your host sets up in their own conditions as they know them better than anybody else, unless we're classing Stokes as an offie after his spell in the UAE.
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Two Spinners In The Playing 11 Another Two Sitting On The Bench And They Ask Root To Bowl. Now Root Can Be Handy And Has Taken Key Wickets In The Past. But It Shows Poor Performance By Your Main Group Of Spinners Or Possibly A Lack Of Belief In Them By Management Or Their Captain.
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Everyone will be breaking Rashid's balls for not bowling well. But Bairstow fluffed an absolute dolly of a stumping of Rashid's bowling. Had that been taken Rashid might've taken a few quickly. Just roll back to yesterday when Ashwin didn't look very threatening, Moeen gifted him one and then he bagged another couple quickly.
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Everyone will be breaking Rashid's balls for not bowling well. But Bairstow fluffed an absolute dolly of a stumping of Rashid's bowling. Had that been taken Rashid might've taken a few quickly. Just roll back to yesterday when Ashwin didn't look very threatening, Moeen gifted him one and then he bagged another couple quickly.
Fluffed it yes, a dolly... No. Im sure most keepers will tell you they would have struggled to take a sharp stumping between bat and pad, especially when 90% of rashid's balls that pitched outside off spun. So bairstow was 'wrong footed'. It would have been a good take otherwise!
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Fluffed it yes, a dolly... No. Im sure most keepers will tell you they would have struggled to take a sharp stumping between bat and pad, especially when 90% of rashid's balls that pitched outside off spun. So bairstow was 'wrong footed'. It would have been a good take otherwise!
Bairstow says he's been keeping to Rashid for a very long time. If that's the case how is he still not picking the googly? It was as straightforward stumping as you'll see in Test cricket. Bairstow was hapless.
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At test level you would expect it to be taken as to go down as a miss by Johnny.
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You ignored the main point. I never said it wasnt his fault, for a ball to go straight on when you expect it to turn and it squeezes through bat and pad, you just don't see them.
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Haven't seen the stumping in question but man's got a point, Bairstow's been keeping to Rashid his entire first class career - picking it should not be a problem!
Glad Buttler's making runs, his talent is not in question - if he cracks the tempo for test match batting and plays for years then we're in for a treat watching.
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Sky did a piece on Blairstown keeping to Rashid over the years. Even in the Yorks games, he repeatedly failed to pick Rashid's variations.
Why isn't Butler keeping? Isn't he way better??
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Sky did a piece on Blairstown keeping to Rashid over the years. Even in the Yorks games, he repeatedly failed to pick Rashid's variations.
Why isn't Butler keeping? Isn't he way better??
Buttlers best spells as a keeper have come when England have not had a spinner, certainly not an attacking one. Based on my limited viewing of him up to the stumps, he's a long way behind Bairstow. Both are terrific athletes and superb stood back to the pace bowlers, but thats the easy part of keeping wicket. The artistry happens when stood up.
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Buttler started as Mumbai Indians keeper in the last ipl. He was soon replaced behind the stumps by Patel(current Indian keeper) as he couldn't pick mumbais spinners.
He got the gloves back eventually but that was more down to Mumbai wanting to play an extra top end batsman.
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Player power eh?
Apparently Bairstow insists on keeping the gloves and Stokes wants to bat at 6.
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Ben Foakes got some runs for the lions today ;)
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***controvertial old person post***
These blokes are not keepers. They are batting allrounders
Seeing read keep to ajmal and russell stood up to courtney walsh
Thats keeping...gloucs connection for you there Edge
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That was my thought - don't see a route to get him in the team, but Foakes is supposed to be a proper keeper isn't he?
Ha the gloucs connection is strong, walk past a gert big poster of Jack Russell every time I go to the gym or to the local shops! Standard of keeping here now isn't the same, that's for sure.
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Vijay has an amazing Test batting technique and he is looking great! When he crosses 77, he always scores a century.
Kohli is a rockstar who makes no mistakes.
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Kholi is a class player thats for sure
Good wicket there for Ball thou! :-)
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Vijay has an amazing Test batting technique and he is looking great! When he crosses 77, he always scores a century.
Kohli is a rockstar who makes no mistakes.
True. He has been batting like a machine last couple of years.
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India looking like they'all get a lead of 50-100. Kohli looking good again.
Advantage of winning the toss has been nullified, just goes to show how well ashwin bowled
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Who needs a third spinner when we have Root!!
But seriously anyone seem the scores for the lions game?england look like they should win(afghan need another 80 with 3 wickets left)
But on a pitch where the afghan spinner Rashid has just took an 8 for(to add to his 4 in the first innings) Leach has just took 1 wicket all game.
Maybe rodgers was right when he said he wasn't ready.
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Root showing the advantage of giving the ball some air. Ali just hasn't done that
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Also we have 4 seamers. Yet
Rashid just bowled 15 in a row, and Ali 12, and now Root is on to give one of them a rest.
We really have got selection wrong this tour on the bowling front.
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Keaton 'Titch' Jennings
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One brings 4! Good catch by Jennings. Got to feel a bit sorry for the batsman
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Seriously, whys as Ashwin even trying to stay there for that? What was the questioning??
It may well have been cookies call before he left the field.
But judging by a few comments on the various social media platforms, it looks like cook had left the field, so Root bought himself on and has snagged two! Haha
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Yes root!
Also does this look like a gn edge stamp covered up on ash wins bat?
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f8/alexhill813/AB907924-579C-4B7F-8040-CC9A158FA469_zpsjyo8sead.png) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/alexhill813/media/AB907924-579C-4B7F-8040-CC9A158FA469_zpsjyo8sead.png.html)
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Ashwin is using SG, that edge branding is sunny tonny.
If only rashid had held onto that!! Would have turned the game
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So you take root off for Ali to come on and bowl half trackers!
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Woakes has bowled 5 overs
Stokes 8
Ball 10
Anderson 12
Root onto 7
Ali 38
Rashid 33
Yep we definately didn't need the third spinner we Carried in the last 3 games......
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Up at 4am to watch,fell asleep missed all the wickets,and we are back in the game.
Meantime root has binned cook and brought himself on!! :)
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Another 100 for kohli - given a masterclass on how to play the turning ball, though be it against 2 very low quality spinners
500+ runs in the series for him already.
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Yep we definately didn't need the third spinner we Carrie don the last 3 games......
You said that you never, ever need more than five bowlers.
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You said that you never, ever need more than five bowlers.
Yep, I'd have dropped two seamers
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Four unhappy seamers, I think! I'd have played Batty instead of Ball, but I wonder if he and Cook aren't seeing eye to eye.
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Four unhappy seamers, I think! I'd have played Batty instead of Ball, but I wonder if he and Cook aren't seeing eye to eye.
Believe Batty was taken on this tour as England weren't sure before the tour what they were going to get from Rashid
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Believe Batty was taken on this tour as England weren't sure before the tour what they were going to get from Rashid
Getting filth served up from rashid so far. I heard the TMS commentators mention he's bowled well today - I'm sorry but the pitch is turning square with bounce and he's struggled to take 2 wickets. If he can't take wickets on this pitch then when is he going to?
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Another drop by england
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Getting filth served up from rashid so far. I heard the TMS commentators mention he's bowled well today - I'm sorry but the pitch is turning square with bounce and he's struggled to take 2 wickets. If he can't take wickets on this pitch then when is he going to?
I think it's fair to say that you are to Rashid what Felix is to Moen Ali... I ;) ;)
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Currently Rashid looks tired
Dangerous for England now, 150-200 lead and we could well lose by an innings here!
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Getting filth served up from rashid so far. I heard the TMS commentators mention he's bowled well today - I'm sorry but the pitch is turning square with bounce and he's struggled to take 2 wickets. If he can't take wickets on this pitch then when is he going to?
20 wickets for the series, at least twice as many as any other English player. Not bad for the number 2 spinner (as Ali is first choice).
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I think it's fair to say that you are to Rashid what Felix is to Moen Ali... I ;) ;)
Call it how I see it.
The irony Rashid and Andersen wasted both reviews on shockers and now when he edges one and none left
20 wickets for the series, at least twice as many as any other English player. Not bad for the number 2 spinner (as Ali is first choice).
Quite a few of those 20 were numbers 10 and 11
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A lot of people say that "wickets don't count when it's the tail etc"
My memory may be bad, but did Warne, McGrath, muralitheran, Walsh, Akram etc all just say "oh I see the tail are in, I better not bowl at these as there beneath me, let someone else get those wickets"
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Quite a few of those 20 were numbers 10 and 11
3. He has number 10 or 11 out 3 time. He's also got Pujara out 3 times and Kohli twice. That's 50% of the times Kohli has been out is to Rashid. #statsarealwayswhatyouwanttomakethem
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3. He has number 10 or 11 out 3 time. He's also got Pujara out 3 times and Kohli twice. That's 50% of the times Kohli has been out is to Rashid. #statsarealwayswhatyouwanttomakethem
Rashid might've got Kohli twice thus far, but the Indian skipper has plunderer 500 odd runs, so safe to assume he's got Rashid's number...
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Whilst I think Rashid's bowled better than his figures suggest in this match, off his 20 wickets how many did he genuinely 'get the batsmen out' and how many where gifted by India?
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A lot of people say that "wickets don't count when it's the tail etc"
My memory may be bad, but did Warne, McGrath, muralitheran, Walsh, Akram etc all just say "oh I see the tail are in, I better not bowl at these as there beneath me, let someone else get those wickets"
Yes, yes they did.. They did say that... ;)
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Ill have none of your sarcastic comments on here.
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England are in this game until India lead gets to above 70 onwards but india unlike England number eight have a number nine who can bat and bowl stay at the wicket with the Captain who keeps scoring this is one of the reasons the match is slipping away.
It also nullifies Englands advantage of winning the toss
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England are in this game until India lead gets to above 70 onwards but india unlike England have a number nine who can bat and bowl stay at the wicket with the Captain who keeps scoring this is one of the reasons the match is slipping away.
It also nullifies Englands advantage of winning the toss
Thats because our number 9 is worse than our 11! And an absolute nut case with a bat
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England are in this game until India lead gets to above 70 onwards but india unlike England have a number nine who can bat and bowl stay at the wicket with the Captain who keeps scoring this is one of the reasons the match is slipping away.
It also nullifies Englands advantage of winning the toss
I'd probably rate their number 10 (kumar) better than their number 9 which is not a good sign
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I'd probably rate their number 10 (kumar) better than their number 9 which is not a good sign
I rate OUR number 10 better than our number 9!
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I rate OUR number 10 better than our number 9!
exactly, how rashid is still there is beyond me!
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Because, in reality Rashid has first class hundreds, and I was at TB for Ball's only 50, and lets just say the leg side boundary was very very short :D
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Pretty certain the myth that Moeen has in on India has been buried once and for all. His bowling has been dreadful in this series. He dined out on the 2014 series for a while, but he's a woeful bowler.
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No one seems to care that Kohli has been masterful. The quality of his play has been astounding.
Buts let's slag off the best players we have because that is easier.
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No one seems to care that Kohli has been masterful. The quality of his play has been astounding.
Buts let's slag off the best players we have because that is easier.
What's the sand taste like where you've buried your head Philip?
Moeen is neither good enough to be a top 5 batsman, nor is he anyway near a decent standard for a Test match spinner.
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What's the sand taste like where you've buried your head Philip?
Moeen is neither good enough to be a top 5 batsman, nor is he anyway near a decent standard for a Test match spinner.
I believe the point Buzz was making that where most people are focusing on how our players are playing, how about also focusing on just how superbly Kholi is playing!!!?
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I believe the point Buzz was making that where most people are focusing on how our players are playing, how about also focusing on just how superbly Kholi is playing!!!?
I never said Kohli isn't playing well, but his task is made easier when we select spinners that aren't specialists eg Moeen, Ansari and latterly Dawson all bits and pieces
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You have to love the way people turn on Rashid - he has been our best bowler in this series, and was good for most of this innings, albeit a little unlucky with chances and half chances missed. Is he as good as India's spinners? Probably not short on skill but a bit on test experience - but he is bowling at infinitely better players of the stuff.
And yes, Kohli was superb. Always been talented, but where two years ago he tended to go MIA he now just bats and bats.
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Can't really say rashid or the England spinners are not experienced. Ali and rashid both played against Pakistan in the UAE and Bangladesh. They seem to go awol when the actually starts to turn.
And kohli is class, he's learnt how to pace and innings and be patient. He use to get to 100 and throw it away, I'm sure he'll get a double 100 tomorrow. Quickly catching the highest run getters of 2016 and played a fair few less innings
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No one seems to care that Kohli has been masterful. The quality of his play has been astounding.
Buts let's slag off the best players we have because that is easier.
Its a forum, where opinions are expressed. People choose to slag off the 'best' players at their own will, just like you decided to mention how good Kohli is
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No one seems to care that Kohli has been masterful. The quality of his play has been astounding.
Buts let's slag off the best players we have because that is easier.
I hope his innings inspires some of English batters (read Joe Root). VK is talented but the motivation and commitment is relentless. Game after game he tries to give his best and its very hard to play with such high energy when you play all 3 formats and franchise cricket all year around.
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England are in this game until India lead gets to above 70 onwards but india unlike England number eight have a number nine who can bat and bowl stay at the wicket with the Captain who keeps scoring this is one of the reasons the match is slipping away.
It also nullifies Englands advantage of winning the toss
I doubt England has any chance of winning. Looks like 3-0, unless one of English batter plays a match saving inning which is unlikely as batting on day 4 and 5 will be difficult on this pitch. After India's first innings, England will be playing for a draw and put themselves under pressure.
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Can't really say rashid or the England spinners are not experienced. Ali and rashid both played against Pakistan in the UAE and Bangladesh. They seem to go awol when the actually starts to turn.
And kohli is class, he's learnt how to pace and innings and be patient. He use to get to 100 and throw it away, I'm sure he'll get a double 100 tomorrow. Quickly catching the highest run getters of 2016 and played a fair few less innings
Its both men's fourth test in India, very different conditions from the UAE or the 'Desh. Ali has done well for a batting all rounder and Rashid could easily have had 5 for 80 instead of 2 for 140. You suspect both would have caused out own batsmen plenty of problems in the conditions.
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I doubt England has any chance of winning. Looks like 3-0, unless one of English batter plays a match saving inning which is unlikely as batting on day 4 and 5 will be difficult on this pitch. After India's first innings, England will be playing for a draw and put themselves under pressure.
It does like it's going to be 3- 0 but unless it looks like the draw is the best england can get i dont think England will play for a draw though as they have already said they made that error in the second innings of the last test they also brought in Buttler with a licence to go for runs.
Also think on thiat pitch England should have left Woakes out and gone for another specialist batsman at number eight rather than play four seamers or another spinner as Rashid was over bowled at the close of play he looked tired.
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It looks like England have no idea about player selection on these Indian wickets. Why on earth would you go for another seamer. They could have easily selected another batsman and bowled Root far more.. I think Root is way under bowled. He could have easily bowled another 10 to 15 overs and took the load off Ali and Rashid
Anderson
Ball
Stokes
Ali
Rashid
Root
That's more than enough bowling
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Ashwin is using SG, that edge branding is sunny tonny.
If only rashid had held onto that!! Would have turned the game
I believe he is currently using RNS Larsson and that is there edge branding
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I believe he is currently using RNS Larsson and that is there edge branding
Yes. I have RNS and thats where they stamp it.
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It looks like England have no idea about player selection on these Indian wickets. Why on earth would you go for another seamer. They could have easily selected another batsman and bowled Root far more.. I think Root is way under bowled. He could have easily bowled another 10 to 15 overs and took the load off Ali and Rashid
Anderson
Ball
Stokes
Ali
Rashid
Root
That's more than enough bowling
True. And if you want to play 5 regular bowlers to get 20 wickets then play 3 spinners not 3 seamers.
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You could have used Dawson, who is a decent third spinner and can bat.
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I believe he is currently using RNS Larsson and that is there edge branding
Wasn't he using Protos bats from Fc Sondi before being stickered by Hero?
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What a truly thumping session that was! Lead up to 179. Yadav into the 90s, kohli with his third double 100 of 2016
Can he get a triple?
The advantage of winning the toss has flown out the window.
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Well played India.
Rashid picks up 4 more poles.
What is the sweep on how many Eng will get. <120?
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Disaster! Jennings gone first ball. Could have easily bagged a pair
All out tonight me thinks
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We are right in the cart. We just have to try to bat and stay out there as long as possible.
As has been said above, instead of bagging our players, let's praise India, world number 1 and in their own conditions they are as strong as any team I can remember.
Khoii is top class and his double ton was fabulous.
We were second best before the series started and so its proved, no matter if we have 3 spinners or 2 plus Root.
India's challenge is same as ours-to win away and outside their comfort zone.
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Cook gone too. Completely different pitch when the Indian spinners are bowling
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Waste of a review as well
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I believe Cook has added referral training from Shane Watson to his regime.
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Is this last game of Alastair Cook as a captain?
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Ali gone too now. Should be over tonight.
Is this last game of Alastair Cook as a captain?
The wheels fell off when he was captaining, at one point he was fielding at fine leg
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Moeen earning his match fee...NOT
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Moeen earning his match fee...NOT
Mo is too high, I've said it before but the selectors need to get away from the thinking its Asian conditions he can bat up....it's false thinking and we have done it before. He's simply not good enough at test level to bat high up.
I do think Root should bat 3 as our best bat but for the balance of the team and a top 5 that are proper batsmen Joe has to go back to 4...with Jennings ahead of him, bairstow 5 and stokes 6.
Then the lower middle if Jos plays he's in, woakes/Ali/Rashid.....someone might miss out there but those 3 are not the quality to go any higher.
It's the quality of bowling you face when they are fresh not the conditions. It's scrambled thinking we have at the moment.
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Ali gone too now. Should be over tonight.
The wheels fell off when he was captaining, at one point he was fielding at fine leg
I field fine leg to fine leg all the time. Maybe I should be England Captain? :D
Root and YJB going well now apart from being dropped and stuff. Keep the faith
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So in conclusion, Kohli is a class apart at home, crickets a great leveller, Keaton, and Mo is not a 4 or 5...
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This is some knock by root. As an impartial it's great viewing. Kohli earlier and root now
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Kohli looks class in these conditions. Albeit against two not so great spinners.
Root is a fighter, he looks less comfortable than kohli, but then Indians spin attack is in a different leagues to England's.
So fifth and finally test. Can they let root and kohli swap? Be interesting to see how Root would do against mo and rash. -!: if kohli looks just as comfortable against Ashwin and jadeja.
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if kohli looks just as comfortable against Ashwin and jadeja.
With the right fielding positions i doubt it, you would have to hold your nerve as a captain and keep your catchers close
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And that's the game. Wonderful knock by root
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Not quite yet.England fighting as thats all we got left to do.
Terrific knock by Root...you want hundreds from key men but he batted excellent today.
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6 down at close. Ashwin's other one was spinning more than rashid's leggy.
100 for woakes tomorrow ;).
England have done better than I expected after going 3 down early.
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Haha yeah !!
Bairstow butler and the legend woaksey need to give it some long handle.
We are going to go down just put a few in the stands.
Despite the scoreline(for us England fans) this has been very good cricket every game
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6 down at close. Ashwin's other one was spinning more than rashid's leggy.
100 for woakes tomorrow ;).
England have done better than I expected after going 3 down early.
Woakes had the opportunity in the first innings when batting with Buttler to take take Englands score over 400 and maybe upto and beyond 450 with the tail doing so England would now have a lead and maybe a chance of winning.
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Woakes had the opportunity in the first innings when batting with Buttler to take take Englands score over 400 and maybe upto and beyond 450 with the tail doing so England would now have a lead and maybe a chance of winning.
In other news, Woakes is also responsible for Brexit, ebola, the rise of DAESH and global warming, right? :D
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230-2 to 400 all out. Dropping Kohli on 60-odd and Jayant in single figures is the major problem, overall selection of the squad aside...
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In other news, Woakes is also responsible for Brexit, ebola, the rise of DAESH and global warming, right? :D
You forgot Trump
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We have been short just about every first innings-thats been our problem because the spinners need plenty of runs to bowl at.
We dont have a ashwin who is surperb in these conditions...
But big runs have eluded us since the Ashes away couple of years ago.
On the positive side i reckon we are getting there...the top 5 has got to settle down thou.
I could not understand myself why Root was not used as 3rd spinner for this series.im afraid we dont have any better behind him and ali and rash.
This is as good as we got.
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In other news, Woakes is also responsible for Brexit, ebola, the rise of DAESH and global warming, right? :D
Well i do wonder in this series what he contributes to the team besides his three wickets in three matches
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We have been short just about every first innings-thats been our problem because the spinners need plenty of runs to bowl at.
We dont have a ashwin who is surperb in these conditions...
But big runs have eluded us since the Ashes away couple of years ago.
On the positive side i reckon we are getting there...the top 5 has got to settle down thou.
I could not understand myself why Root was not used as 3rd spinner for this series.im afraid we dont have any better behind him and ali and rash.
This is as good as we got.
Good point Root as the third spinner and on these wickets a specialist batsman at eight
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Biggest problem is we are missing a decent left arm spinner to a team of right handers. Why we didn't take 2 left arm spinners is a bit curious. Particularly when you see how dangerous a dart merchant like jadeja is in these conditions.
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You forgot Trump
Nope, Seniorplayer would actually have us believe that Trump developed Chris Woakes in Area 52 as a means of destablising the England cricket team...
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Biggest problem is we are missing a decent left arm spinner to a team of right handers. Why we didn't take 2 left arm spinners is a bit curious. Particularly when you see how dangerous a dart merchant like jadeja is in these conditions.
If only Fat Sammy could lay off those pies and stick to bowling 'em!
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I think lot of things went wrong for England - the most important one was England's batting was below par. So many posts about Ali, Rashid, Woakes and England's bowling combination etc etc but not many about dismal batting performance by Cook, Root etc. They never got a big score to set an example and motivate other batters.
England won the toss thrice and never secured a lead. Batting in India is different - its easiest in first session of day 1 and keeps getting harder as match progresses unlike other places where its harder on day one then gets easy and the gets harder again.
India has similar problems when they travel, batsmen dont score enough. You need runs on the board to put the opposition under pressure which also helps bowlers to attack more and get 20 wickets.
And atleast this series will put the "win toss win the match" western myth to rest. ;)
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I think lot of things went wrong for England - the most important one was England's batting was below par. So many posts about Ali, Rashid, Woakes and England's bowling combination etc etc but not many about dismal batting performance by Cook, Root etc. They never got a big score to set an example and motivate other batters.
England won the toss thrice and never secured a lead. Batting in India is different - its easiest in first session of day 1 and keeps getting harder as match progresses unlike other places where its harder on day one then gets easy and the gets harder again.
India has similar problems when they travel, batsmen dont score enough. You need runs on the board to put the opposition under pressure which also helps bowlers to attack more and get 20 wickets.
And atleast this series will put the "win toss win the match" western myth to rest. ;)
You can counter that by saying England did what they could given the bowlers they were facing. Sky were discussing it on air that had Kohli and Co had to bat against Ashwin etc things would of been a lot more difficult. Ultimately England no longer have two world class spinners and that's hurt them on turning pitches. Sure England have played some poor shots but the Indian spinners have got more out of the wicket at all stages of the game, both first and second innings. Let's not forget Kohli has been head and shoulders above all the Indian batsman and has help turn near par situations into big first innings leads. England particularly in this test have missed chances to get into the ascendency. I'm sure they will learn and come back a better team when they next visit Asia.
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England's first inning score was a good score. The primary difference between two teams has been Virat Kohli as a batsman. Then, India has clever spinners in Ashwin and Jadeja who have been consistent performers in their home conditions. I feel now it is too late for England to salvage the series. Cook's leadership might be at risk as well. I think it is time for Cook to pass the baton to a younger, more dynamic, Test captain - someone with fire and fight in him. I see no other candidate better than Benji. Virat Kohli before his captaincy was also a fiery character and look what he's done for India's Test side. Plus Kohli also have lifted his game (batting) to another level.
Cook and Root should just focus on runs and records. Benji would make a great England Test captain!
It'd be interesting to see how Kohli's side travels; in their last outing to Australia they did put up a good fight but came up short. Kohli has inculcated a mindset of "no excuses" in his team. I would love to see how they'd fare on the road. All this is great for international Test cricket.
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To Be Captain of England history shows you usually have to come from a selective background
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It time to put to bed the fact we have no front line spinners.
Rashid is not good enough Mo is a batsman who can bowl a bit and Root is a under used bowler.
Time we had a massive look at this department and produce...
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To Be Captain of England history shows you usually have to come from a selective background
Not sure that makes you any less competent.
Good news Chris Woakes fans. He went to a state school. (So says Wikipedia)
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It time to put to bed the fact we have no front line spinners.
Rashid is not good enough Mo is a batsman who can bowl a bit and Root is a under used bowler.
Time we had a massive look at this department and produce...
Wonder what Rashid's figures would be like if he were bowling at Australia or South Africa on these pitches? He has bowled well, is clearly test class though not a world beater - its harsh to judge him when he is bowling at a very very good side who are masters of the conditions.
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Wonder what Rashid's figures would be like if he were bowling at Australia or South Africa on these pitches? He has bowled well, is clearly test class though not a world beater - its harsh to judge him when he is bowling at a very very good side who are masters of the conditions.
The pitches have helped spinners he is simply not good enough...
Yes he bowled at good players but his stats of a average over 40 not for me sorry...
Good enough when has he been good enough he has never been consistently good enough
He at the minute best of a very bad bunch it a double edged sword yes they are good on these wickets but we are adding to that unfortunately by not keeping it tight at least.
And please do not go down he a leggie route because his strike rate doesn't tell me he anything special either although it is at 60 which is the norm I guess
. He all potential that's simply doesn't look like happening.
Time we looked at a few other options.
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Lets be honest Rashid will not get a look in at home.
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Not sure that makes you any less competent.
Good news Chris Woakes fans. He went to a state school. (So says Wikipedia)
If he gets a ton tommorow we could be in for a lively time on the forum, and no one has even mentioned M And H.
More tea vicar?
:)
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Ultimately we are being beaten by a very good side who are better than us in their own backyard - better spinnrs, and better batters in these conditions.
However, looking at the few positives from this tour and the Lions, there is some talent coming up. I wonder what an England touring party might be in 12 months time?
Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Gubbins
Butler
Foakes
Moeen
Leach
Stokes
Woakes
Ball
Broad
T Curran
S Curran
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Plenty of positives for sure...
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-england-2016-17/content/story/1072098.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-england-2016-17/content/story/1072098.html)
Hmmm, whilst it not be completely untrue sentiments he expressed, it's pretty poor timing to throw them out now whilst Kohli, Jadeja and Ashwin are pulling our pants down and giving it to us quite vigorously!
Makes him sound a bit of a tit IMHO
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Expectations of the tour obviously depend on whether you think we could honestly go to the worlds number 1 team in their conditions and win, which the majority of team don't. Their record home is fantastic. I don't know the last team to win there apart from us in 2012. We had Swann and panesar(absolute shoe in he would have been, what happened Monty?), and a truly great ton by he who cannot be named to win a match pretty much single handed. We scraped that series 2-1.
Personally a draw I would of been delighted with, a series loss it's going to be. Not the end of he world, and we drew in Bangladesh....in my book that's decent.
Huge positives hameed, rash has bowled well, not so good here but very well last couple of matches. Jennings could be the real deal, root has scored runs and so has bairstow-quickly becoming invaluable to us.
Spin wise it's the third spinner that's the problem, can't be fixed overnight. Think back...how many real quality spinners have we had in the last 30 years?. And as has been said how many spinners do we need at home and most away series.
Ansari don't know what to make of, could have potential, could not.
I just hope we go down fighting tommorow, as @FattusCattus says, pin your ears back and smash it.
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Lets be honest Rashid will not get a look in at home.
Rashid has been too 1 dimensional.... same ball, same ball, same ball etc etc wrongun. Same ball same ball
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[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-england-2016-17/content/story/1072098.html[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-england-2016-17/content/story/1072098.html[/url])
Hmmm, whilst it not be completely untrue sentiments he expressed, it's pretty poor timing to throw them out now whilst Kohli, Jadeja and Ashwin are pulling our pants down and giving it to us quite vigorously!
Makes him sound a bit of a tit IMHO
Isn't he just saying he can't bowl in India but he can on English pitches
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Expectations of the tour obviously depend on whether you think we could honestly go to the worlds number 1 team in their conditions and win, which the majority of team don't. Their record home is fantastic. I don't know the last team to win there apart from us in 2012. We had Swann and panesar(absolute shoe in he would have been, what happened Monty?), and a truly great ton by he who cannot be named to win a match pretty much single handed. We scraped that series 2-1.
Personally a draw I would of been delighted with, a series loss it's going to be. Not the end of he world, and we drew in Bangladesh....in my book that's decent.
Huge positives hameed, rash has bowled well, not so good here but very well last couple of matches. Jennings could be the real deal, root has scored runs and so has bairstow-quickly becoming invaluable to us.
Spin wise it's the third spinner that's the problem, can't be fixed overnight. Think back...how many real quality spinners have we had in the last 30 years?. And as has been said how many spinners do we need at home and most away series.
Ansari don't know what to make of, could have potential, could not.
I just hope we go down fighting tommorow, as @FattusCattus says, pin your ears back and smash it.
Agree with all that bar the 3rd spinner problem I think we have a 1st and 2nd spinner problem but we are not alone in that.
Maybe cricket has changed again where bits and pieces players will play but think we need a frontline spinner one we have not seen yet...
Do we need one at home is the honest truth and I think cricket has been moving on look around most countries are doing it.
The world does not have many great spinners like keepers there all bits/pieces now...
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I disagree Carlos the Jackal - I think it;s all 3 spinning departments that have been exposed.
Moeen is a handy 2nd spinner at best
Rashid is too inconsistent
Batty / Ansari too 'English' and to inexperienced.
I'm going to go crazy here and say that when we go back to normal conditions, we actually pick Rashid as the one spinner and Root as the 2nd spinner for 5-6 overs a day.
I see a side like:
Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Rashid
Ball / Broad
Anderson
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Isn't he just saying he can't bowl in India but he can on English pitches
Yes he is...
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I want to see a left arm spinner that lad from Somerset will do...
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Isn't he just saying he can't bowl in India but he can on English pitches
I think Ashwin / Kholi have comer on leaps and bounds and would be far more effective in England now.
It's more that we are being well beaten, and Jimmy is not at his best at the moment so I think it makes him look a bot of a plonker- the Indians are much improved.
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And I think the Anderson comments have made us look a bit daft.
Does it mean that English batters have shown there flows too in the microsim of the Indian spinners.
No disrespect but half out batters have looked cannon fodder.
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Jack Leach.
Would have liked to see a fit Mark Wood bowling short spells with the new and old (reversing) ball.
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Jennngs batted well in the first innings but could have looked like a huge fail had that catch been taken. He would have walked away with a pair
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England have played pretty well in this Test match and the only reason we will more than likely look like losing this test is dropped catches, Kohli and Jayent put on over 270 runs after being dropped, Kohli was tough chance but should have been caught and Jayent was regulation at Test level.
Lots of positives for me from this series, Hameed and Jennings look like decent top order players, Anderson has recovered from his injury and rashid has got a lot better, butler is back in the side and scoring runs and JB has kept well this series so far so good selection meetings over those two and the gloves and who should bat where
Disappointing is that our spinners are just average compared to top level spinners and this is reflected in English cricket, we need to work in this in the county game, broad injured and I do feel that would have made a difference having him in this test.
Tomorrow if we can get a lead of 80 that would be a great effort by England and maybe, just maybe the wheels could come off the India batting line up.
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Plenty of positives for sure...
You mean improvements?? ;)
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No positives...
England will lose the series but that's no real surprise we always did know we didn't really have the spinners to do the job but it there backyard.
England like many sides have gone there and lost like India do when they tend to travel poorly..
Swings and roundabouts but every dog has there day.
I love watching both England and India there some superb technicians in there own environment and when there not they all moan..
I still do not think Ashwin would be any better in UK conditions I do think VK would mind.
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No positives...
England will lose the series but that's no real surprise we always did know we didn't really have the spinners to do the job but it there backyard.
England like many sides have gone there and lost like India do when they tend to travel poorly..
Swings and roundabouts but every dog has there day.
I love watching both England and India there some superb technicians in there own environment and when there not they all moan..
I still do not think Ashwin would be any better in UK conditions I do think VK would mind.
Kohli averages 12.5 in England right?
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On seaming wickets yes we sorted him out last time. The Indians are a better side now thou and he is a better player I reckon.
It's a shame India only tour here every 4 or 5 years.
There is the champions trophy here next year he will be looking to have a good tournament.
I've read Andersons article on cricinfo, link in an above post....I don't think that comes across very well and I'm a bit surprised to be honest. We are competing better than other sides(South Africa for example last tour) but they are a better side in these conditions...
0-2 so far can't see how we can complain too much.
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Kohli averages 12.5 in England right?
13.40... back in 2014. He also only averages 14 in Bangladesh (only 1 test match) in 2015. I think it's fair to say he is an improved player since then and it's harsh to judge a players performance based on 1 tour
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It's not a shame India don't tour England more often. They are worse than the current tourists, and basically have given up on the last two tours and were a borderline disgrace. Dhoni's attitude in particular stank.
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It's not a shame India don't tour England more often. They are worse than the current tourists, and basically have given up on the last two tours and were a borderline disgrace. Dhoni's attitude in particular stank.
You're spot on there.. That series I thought they have given up on tests, and just wanted one day/t20 stuff...
For what I have read Dhoni just didn't fancy it. True or u true I can't say. But they played like they didn't care.
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I think Kholi is a different man to what Dhoni was at that time in his career, I suspect we would give the Indians a shoeing in our conditions - but I feel it would be much closer than last time.
Perhaps we should give them a 5 match series in Australia to even up the competition?
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I think Kholi is a different man to what Dhoni was at that time in his career, I suspect we would give the Indians a shoeing in our conditions - but I feel it would be much closer than last time.
Perhaps we should give them a 5 match series in Australia to even up the competition?
I think our recent form in aus as a team is much worse than Kohlis alone....
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I don't really see the similarities between what happened to South Africa and New Zealand compared to what's happening to us. For some unknown reason India dished up absolute sandpits against SA and NZ(despite both countries always accommodating the international schedules to avoid clashing with India's cash cow the IPL).
Not one pitch in this series has been anyway near the sandpits the other touring sides received.
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IIRC Ponting averaged around 15 in India, until his last tour there when he scored a few runs. Does that mean he's not an all time great? Heck no.
Yes Kohli had a shocker on these shores in 2014, more so Anderson had it on him TBH, but his resumé everywhere else stacks up as well as anyone's.
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1. I think India prepared sandpits against NZ and SA to get enough ranking points to get to no.1
2. The humiliation of England is greater, as these matches having been played on more sporting wickets.
As an aside, the trash talk of both sides has been unedifying and boorish. Sometimes I wish I was a Kiwi...
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The Indians have come under criticism for preparing Bunsen burners, yet not a word about green tops usually.
Been disappointed with the wickets on this tour so far apart from this one. Makes it much better viewing when the bowlers are on top and the batsmen have to fight.
Wouldn't have mattered if England's spinners would have had a chance to knock India over, they aren't Swann and monty. Plenty of freebies available with these 2 spinners. Pressure seems to get to them as soon as the ball turns
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TBH the only spinner to cause India much concern has been Mitchell Santner during this period of home domination. The young Kiwi was the stand out.
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Watched 4 out of 5 days at the Wankhede stadium and tbh England looked downcast on the field all those days. Their body language gave it all away. Add to that some atrocious field placement esp when Virat and Jayant were batting. Something's you cannot make out while watching on TV.
Wish they had fought a little more harder that 4th morning and also when they batted in the 2nd innings.
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Another 5 wicket haul for ashwin. Cook's blamed the missed chances for this loss - his failings in my view:
1. Team selection - playing 4 medium pacers
2. Throwing his wicket away on day 1
3. Over bowling rashid, not making enough bowling changes.
4. Waiting until the 136th over to take the new ball. Ashwin showed what a spinner can do with the new ball.
5. Saw him at fine leg at one point.
I'm sure I've missed some. It would have been easier had he lost the toss, he would have had a proper excuse. He used the toss excuse earlier in the series.
Expecting chennai to turn square then again never know given the pitches this series
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England have played pretty well in this Test match and the only reason we will more than likely look like losing this test is dropped catches, Kohli and Jayent put on over 270 runs after being dropped, Kohli was tough chance but should have been caught and Jayent was regulation at Test level.
Lots of positives for me from this series, Hameed and Jennings look like decent top order players, Anderson has recovered from his injury and rashid has got a lot better, butler is back in the side and scoring runs and JB has kept well this series so far so good selection meetings over those two and the gloves and who should bat where
Disappointing is that our spinners are just average compared to top level spinners and this is reflected in English cricket, we need to work in this in the county game, broad injured and I do feel that would have made a difference having him in this test.
Tomorrow if we can get a lead of 80 that would be a great effort by England and maybe, just maybe the wheels could come off the India batting line up.
Must have been watching a different game ;) :D
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Another 5 wicket haul for ashwin. Cook's blamed the missed chances for this loss - his failings in my view:
1. Team selection - playing 4 medium pacers
2. Throwing his wicket away on day 1
3. Over bowling rashid, not making enough bowling changes.
4. Waiting until the 136th over to take the new ball. Ashwin showed what a spinner can do with the new ball.
5. Saw him at fine leg at one point.
I'm sure I've missed some. It would have been easier had he lost the toss, he would have had a proper excuse. He used the toss excuse earlier in the series.
Expecting chennai to turn square then again never know given the pitches this series
The pitches have wrong footed us quite right because only this one has spun big and Cook has not had a great game right also.
For England to compete we needed big runs and to hold our catches which we havnt..and India are a good side at home.
The third spinner has to be Root leaving a space for an extra bowler or an extra batsman-we could have a batsman because theres def enough bowling in the side.
0-3 is a fair reflection thou...i dont think England should be making excuses..we were nearly one up after the 1st test as well
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We need our spinners to take wickets on spinning wickets, Ali has only taken 9 compared to Rashids 22 this series
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Rash has done well, didn't bowl great this game but in the previous ones def improved from previous matches.
You can dress it up anyway you want but we are playing 4 seamers because our spinners are not top class, I wish we had a couple but we don't, and we certainly don't have 3.
Rashid has exceeded my expectations this tour, 22 wickets is not bad at all
:)
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Rashid's wickets tally looks fine, he just doesn't get the batsmen out, more they gift their wickets as they are wanting to smash him to the moon and back...
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Rashid's wickets tally looks fine, he just doesn't get the batsmen out, more they gift their wickets as they are wanting to smash him to the moon and back...
Wickets are wickets doesn't matter how they come! You can say the same for some of Ashwins wickets today rashids wicket case in point
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Wickets are wickets doesn't matter how they come! You can say the same for some of Ashwins wickets today rashids wicket case in point
The deliveries that Bairstow and Woakes got separate the great bowlers from the merely average ones. Bairstow batted superbly and was done like a kipper.
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Lying in > watching us lose
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Thought rashid's shot was pretty interesting - nailed it straight to the man in the deep when you've got buttler on the other end. Brainless cricket
Not convinced by Woakes (that 100 comment was sarcasm) and rashid's batting abilities.
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Ashwin is a terrific bowler Felix, he's got the one that goes the other way which is great to have in your variations
Rashid and Mo will get wickets in different ways, yes more so if the batsmen are attacking, that's all part of being a spinner....
there is a difference in class it's clear to see.....
Quite where we go with spin i'm not sure.
For a start point I would like to see England touring the sub continent a lot more than we have done in recent times....
that's the challenge, the only way we can get better is getting out of our comfort zone on green seamers.
We are not a bad side, I expect some negativity on the forum today...it's misplaced lads.....
We are a decent side, it will be interesting to see next match if we play another batsman or go back to 3 spinners....
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You all missed my point ALI ONLY took 9 WICKETS....
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Rash has done well, didn't bowl great this game but in the previous ones def improved from previous matches.
You can dress it up anyway you want but we are playing 4 seamers because our spinners are not top class, I wish we had a couple but we don't, and we certainly don't have 3.
Rashid has exceeded my expectations this tour, 22 wickets is not bad at all
:)
Root comes on and picks up 2 important wickets.. then bowls stuff all after that... why?
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Our spinners also havent built enough pressure with maidens, 38 maidens (ali and rashid) bowled compared to ashwins and jadejas 89... 11% of ali and rashids overs were maidens compared to 20%... It all works out in their favour at the end of the day regardless off having 3 spinners or not, compare the top 2 of both teams
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Root comes on and picks up 2 important wickets.. then bowls stuff all after that... why?
Cook was off having a piss
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Root comes on and picks up 2 important wickets.. then bowls stuff all after that... why?
hard to work out that I agree. Root has bowled before and done alright. picks up wickets now and again
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Our spinners also havent built enough pressure with maidens, 38 maidens (ali and rashid) bowled compared to ashwins and jadejas 89... 11% of ali and rashids overs were maidens compared to 20%... It all works out in their favour at the end of the day regardless off having 3 spinners or not, compare the top 2 of both teams
Swann used to tie an end down first innings quite a lot....so did Panesar, so did Tufnell, Edmunds,Emburey. All the good ones do
You can go back far as you want, the best did that for us.
If you(we) aint got that it's very hard
we are picking 3 spinners because we need 3, but not because we have 3 good enough.
and if we're honest, @FattusCattus did say....have we got 2 really good enough.
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It's interesting really. What we need is one world class spinner, which we had with Swanny, or one that can be deadly accurate, even without much spin, see Giles. At the moment we have three, none of which on their own is a match winner, and none of which have the consistency required to bowl maiden after maiden.
What can we learn from this? Well I'd suggest that you either send Moeen to playing as a bowling all rounder and make him bowl a ton of overs in county cricket, rather than play as a batsman who can bowl, and you make Rashid play tons of CC games, forcing his captain to play him and make him bowl. Both of them need to be bowling a lot and gaining that level of consistency and repetitive-ness that we just don't seem to be able to manage in the 5-day game.
If we could get just one of them to step up to fill that gap, it totally changes the balance of the team. A batting spinner and a batting fast bowler, then we have plenty of depth.
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Bring back Tredders!
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It's interesting really. What we need is one world class spinner, which we had with Swanny, or one that can be deadly accurate, even without much spin, see Giles. At the moment we have three, none of which on their own is a match winner, and none of which have the consistency required to bowl maiden after maiden.
What can we learn from this? Well I'd suggest that you either send Moeen to playing as a bowling all rounder and make him bowl a ton of overs in county cricket, rather than play as a batsman who can bowl, and you make Rashid play tons of CC games, forcing his captain to play him and make him bowl. Both of them need to be bowling a lot and gaining that level of consistency and repetitive-ness that we just don't seem to be able to manage in the 5-day game.
If we could get just one of them to step up to fill that gap, it totally changes the balance of the team. A batting spinner and a batting fast bowler, then we have plenty of depth.
this in a nutshell is it.. :)
at the risk of upsetting Felix and the rest of the Somerset followers on here as well. Stop doctoring wickets at Taunton
If we (England) want Leach and think he could develop raging bunsns are not going to help him.
Sorry but it's true
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Bring back Tredders!
one of our ex colts plays for Kent. Imran.
he's left arm :)
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Really not sure the 4 seamers was as big an issue as it's being made out to be. We could have 6 spinners if we wanted, the issue isn't the number of spinners, it's the fact that all of our spinners are, frankly, awful.
I'm still not a fan of Rashid, too inconsistent, seems like he's soft in the head as well as soon as there's a bit of pressure on him (turning pitch, batsmen attacking) he turns to mush. You can say that he's a leggie, so he's going to be inconsistent but that's nonsense, just look at Yasir Shah, Adam Zampa, Davendra Bishoo, even Ish Sodhi! They can all at least land an over vaguely where they want. Time to get shot of him I'm afraid, cant see that Mason Crane would be any worse. Can't see that Moeen can justify playing just as a bowler, and given his soft dismissals this series, I'm not sure he can hold down a place as a batsman either.
Tough times, but I think given Ben Stokes being the allrounder, and Chris Woakes certainly knows which end to hold, we can afford to pick whoever is the best spinner, regardless of their other abilities. Got to be Leach or Rayner really though? I reckon if either of them can string together a decent start to next season, they could well be in the frame for the summer tests.
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this in a nutshell is it.. :)
at the risk of upsetting Felix and the rest of the Somerset followers on here as well. Stop doctoring wickets at Taunton
If we (England) want Leach and think he could develop raging bunsns are not going to help him.
Sorry but it's true
Yes and no, in that, Yes, the bowlers need to bowl on a variety of pitches to learn how to bowl (which he does, given half the games aren't at Taunton) and No in that what we needed in this series was someone who knows how to bowl teams out on turning pitches, which he does know.
The Indians didn't become good spinners by bowling on green tops!
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Root comes on and picks up 2 important wickets.. then bowls stuff all after that... why?
Cook wasn't there so Root brought himself on.
Cook obviously no faith in him. Root is far from a front line bowler, but he got some good drift and turn in his small spell. He needs to be used more.
Root bowler 15-20 overs and batting 3 is more likely to work than moeen bowling 50 overs and then having to come in at.
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I believe Root himself was showing a little reluctance to bowl when there were 3 frontline spinners in the side, and also he has talked of protecting his back.
However, I am in agreement with the Smiler - moving forward it may be useful to find a proper, more consistent spinner instead of both Mo and Rash and use Root as the 2nd spinning option.
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That will not happen because after this tour we're not due to go back to subcontinent pitches until at least the winter of 2018
Also Anderson's comments about Kohli are getting blown way out of proportion
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Also Anderson's comments about Kohli are getting blown way out of proportion
Sounds like usual Anderson - sour grapes. The pot calling the kettle black given his record on green tops. Got to love Graeme Smith digging into jimmy too ;)
Think ashwin should be fined for his behavior when anderson walked out.
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Andersons comments although badly timed are probably correct, or at least they are for now, obviously when kohli comes to england, if he gets runs then fair play he has the technique but as it stands im sure we can all say that kohli still has a few issues with the swinging ball, as we have no other evidence to go on
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He was asked an opinion and he offered one from an opposition bowler. I don't see the issue? Statistically speaking his averages overseas are decent apart from England, maybe Sri Lanka and West Indies if you wanted to be really difficult (38 and 36 respectively). I'm excluding Bangladesh at 14 as that was just one match...
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He was asked an opinion and he offered one from an opposition bowler. I don't see the issue? Statistically speaking his averages overseas are decent apart from England, maybe Sri Lanka and West Indies if you wanted to be really difficult (38 and 36 respectively). I'm excluding Bangladesh at 14 as that was just one match...
I agree... Ashwin was asked about Root and said that they had watched videos and knew he had a problem with spinners outside the off stump where Root pushes too hard at it and therefore candidate for edging behind. How's this different to Anderson having an opinion about an opposing player.
Bottom line is that it's a man's game and if someone expresses an opinion about you then you go out show them how wrong they are...
English batsmen struggle to play spin and Kohli is very suspect against the moving ball.
Cook is a poor captain and the top order batted poorly at important times.. Simples...
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Cook out and root in according to cook...... maybe
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38286086 (http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38286086)
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Cook out and root in according to cook...... maybe
[url]http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38286086[/url] ([url]http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38286086[/url])
wrong move if it happens. I think listening to Cook he is running out of gas. but needs to hang on for a while yet.
no one should be groomed to lead England, it's not an old boys club handing over power
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wrong move if it happens. I think listening to Cook he is running out of gas. but needs to hang on for a while yet.
no one should be groomed to lead England, it's not an old boys club handing over power
I agree. Not sure root batting at 3 ( I prefer him at 4) and the pressure of captaincy will help his game.. Especially if England insist on.him playing all 3 formats. Some people like Jos and Stokesy seem to.thrive on responsibility but there are others like Kane Williamson and Amla who haven't..
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I agree. Not sure root batting at 3 ( I prefer him at 4) and the pressure of captaincy will help his game.. Especially if England insist on.him playing all 3 formats. Some people like Jos and Stokesy seem to.thrive on responsibility but there are others like Kane Williamson and Amla who haven't..
yes it doesn't work for me this....
I do think Cook is coming to the end, he looks a bit downcast, it's a tough tour this one.
but there are other players who could do it if they had to. Root would be under monumental pressure, would you want to do that to our best bat?
and he def needs to go back to 4-to help the team
Mo ALi has to get out of the top 5, he's way too high
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I think Root wants the job... Some people thrive under pressure and I believe Root is one of those people
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I think Root wants the job... Some people thrive under pressure and I believe Root is one of those people
pretty sure after this tour we are not playing test cricket until July next year...there's a big gap.
Don't know whether that would be looked at as a break for Cook(mentally) or a time to get Root in slowly...
England play a lot of cricket we don't normally get this break in the schedule(if i'm correct not playing till July)
would like to see Cook carry on next year personally
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I get the impression England want Cook to lead then in the Ashes next winter and will then let Root take over afterwards.
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I think Root wants the job... Some people thrive under pressure and I believe Root is one of those people
What makes you think he wants it?? I have heard him explain a few times that he believes his batting is still not at the standard he wants to be at and by his own admission he doesn't have much experience at captaincy.
Of course he won't turn the job down because being England captain is such an honour but for me if he does get it then he has to stop playing T20 cricket for England.
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What makes you think he wants it?? I have heard him explain a few times that he believes his batting is still not at the standard he wants to be at and by his own admission he doesn't have much experience at captaincy.
Of course he won't turn the job down because being England captain is such an honour but for me if he does get it then he has to stop playing T20 cricket for England.
yes exactly my understanding. any interview I have read or heard I think he's glad Cook is around to take the pressure off.
England need to think very carefully here... we have a history of unsuccessfully putting too much pressure on our best players
god knows we have made mistakes in the past
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Cook did have a point - if the missed stumping for Vijay on 45 (added a further 91 runs after that), Kholi dropped on 69 (added a further 166 runs) and Yadav dropped on 8 (added 96) had all been taken then that equals a massive 353 runs more than if the chances had of been taken! So Cook was kind of correct when he stated those 3 chances cost them ALOT!!!
BUT that must not detract from the other issues we have! England HAVE to find a front line spinner! I don't think we would ever find an Ashwin and certainly a Warne only ever comes along once in a lifetime! But take a Swann or Monty right now. Rashid has done ok in the nunmber of wickets taken - but he needs to learn to bowl consistently and apply pressure. The Indian batsmen seem to know that he will bowl at least one bad ball every over and sometimes more....so they just need to block and then take the bad balls to score! But surely there has to be a special spinner somewhere?
In other areas, I agree that Ali should not be batting in the top 5! But he is an excellent 7/8 and a part time spinner. If we had one genuine front line spinner, then I honestly believe that Root and Ali between them could do a decent job in most conditions and take the odd wicket (or 2 if you are Root!)
In most English conditions spinners are rarely needed and are only of any use in the 4th innings anyway. Therefore I believe that on most home grounds, we would manage handsomely with Root and Ali, as long as we had our best pace bowlers!
Evidently the ground where the next Test is spins! Therefore surely we need to look at bringing in Dawson or another spinner so that we have Rashid, Ali, Root and Dawson/Batty? And we can afford to really play Stokes, Ball and Anderson? Or even take a risk and just play 2 seamers?? I assume Stokes would be one because of his batting. Then either Anderson/Ball/Broad/Woakes as the other? We have nothing to lose now! We are likely to lose 4-0 anyway, so take a risk and maybe even play Rashid, Ali, Dawson, Root AND Batty if they are all around still?
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I'm still not a fan of Rashid, too inconsistent, seems like he's soft in the head as well as soon as there's a bit of pressure on him (turning pitch, batsmen attacking) he turns to mush. You can say that he's a leggie, so he's going to be inconsistent but that's nonsense, just look at Yasir Shah, Adam Zampa, Davendra Bishoo, even Ish Sodhi! They can all at least land an over vaguely where they want. Time to get shot of him I'm afraid, cant see that Mason Crane would be any worse.
Rashid is still early in his international career. Think he has got to be given chance to up his game. No point sending him back to the CC to pick up wickets for fun against half the muppets in that league. He needs to bowl against the best for an extended period of time, across a multitude on different tracks to prove whether he is good enough. Here are some stats to back this up...
After 9 games..
Rashid - 37 wickets at 39.81 (s/r of 63.95)
Warne - 21 wickets at 37.38 (s/r of 75.00)
Ballance - ave 61.50 with 4 hundreds (and look at him now)
I think he should be first choice for the rest of this series, next summer and the next winter. Then a real decision can be made as to whether he is good enough.
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Rashid is still early in his international career. Think he has got to be given chance to up his game. No point sending him back to the CC to pick up wickets for fun against half the muppets in that league. He needs to bowl against the best for an extended period of time, across a multitude on different tracks to prove whether he is good enough. Here are some stats to back this up...
After 9 games..
Rashid - 37 wickets at 39.81 (s/r of 63.95)
Warne - 21 wickets at 37.38 (s/r of 75.00)
Ballance - ave 61.50 with 4 hundreds (and look at him now)
I think he should be first choice for the rest of this series, next summer and the next winter. Then a real decision can be made as to whether he is good enough.
Warne vs Rashid stats are irrelevant.
Warne wasn't bowling long hops and full tosses. He was murdered by Ravi Shastri on debut(whom was a sensational player of spin)
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plus im sure warne was a youngish lad learning his trade at the top level
Rashid has had 10+ years of county cricket behind him, yes maybe 3-4 being messed about by England but still a solid 6-7 years in county cricket
if you can't control it by 30 your prob never going to
we have to accept that Rashid will be hit and miss but when on will win games and when off will look a clubbie or get someone new and I can't think of many who could do either job we need
where is the king of spain when we need him
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Bring back Tredders!
To be fair he did a pretty decent job. Would of made life a lot tougher. But he's experienced and that's the issue. Most decent English spinners don't mature until they nearly reach their 30s, swann, edmonds, emburey. Panesar would / should of been at his peak now but the ECB should of paid more than a passing interest in his development. Tuffers was a freak in terms of ability at his age but he was mismanaged to hell in the 90s.
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Cook did have a point - if the missed stumping for Vijay on 45 (added a further 91 runs after that), Kholi dropped on 69 (added a further 166 runs) and Yadav dropped on 8 (added 96) had all been taken then that equals a massive 353 runs more than if the chances had of been taken! So Cook was kind of correct when he stated those 3 chances cost them ALOT!!!
On the flip side, Jennings dropped on 0 in the first innings, Bairstow also dropped a few times and lots of plays and misses. Cook's used the excuse of not taking their chances but I dont buy it, they've probably evened themselves out
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Rashid is still early in his international career. Think he has got to be given chance to up his game. No point sending him back to the CC to pick up wickets for fun against half the muppets in that league. He needs to bowl against the best for an extended period of time, across a multitude on different tracks to prove whether he is good enough. Here are some stats to back this up...
After 9 games..
Rashid - 37 wickets at 39.81 (s/r of 63.95)
Warne - 21 wickets at 37.38 (s/r of 75.00)
Ballance - ave 61.50 with 4 hundreds (and look at him now)
I think he should be first choice for the rest of this series, next summer and the next winter. Then a real decision can be made as to whether he is good enough.
Warnie played as the primary spinner in all conditions in those first 9 tests (and when he was a lot younger and inexperienced as a cricketer), whereas Rashid has played solely in helpful conditions, where he hasn't had to play the holding role and has had spin from ball 1 pretty much every time. I think if you're a 28 year old professional spinner, and you still don't have reasonable / any control then he's never going to get it, is he?
I've always thought of him as similar to Imran Tahir, in that he gets away with bowling some garbage in ODI's because the field is out. But won't ever have enough control to be a genuine threat in a Test match. I don't think that's an unfair comparison to make?
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Ultimately England's solution to spin bowling isn't Rashid or Ali. Rashid has gone OK in India but Asia isn't know as a leg spinners paradise, even Warne struggled. Finger spinners win games in asia and turning the ball away from the bat. Even Swann struggled to the right handers, so Ali struggles are understandable. More control would help but England need to have a good think about how to beat teams in Asia and start getting the right people playing. Why not fly jake leach over from the UAE and throw him into a dead rubber, what's to lose?
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Until we find a spinner that can bowl consistently in the right areas at a lot quicker pace we won't get anywhere in the subcontinent. Ali and Rashid along with their being inconsistent have also bowled far too slowly on these wickets.
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On the flip side, Jennings dropped on 0 in the first innings, Bairstow also dropped a few times and lots of plays and misses. Cook's used the excuse of not taking their chances but I dont buy it, they've probably evened themselves out
The maths still doesn't add up there my New Zealand friend. England gave more away than India did..
However the most important factor that Captain Cook missed was the fact the top 5 Indian batsman have very rarely given their wickets away in all 4 tests so far. There isn't a need to worry about dropped catches if your top 5 bat like they can do when winning 3/4 tosses!!
For me the rot started against Pakistan last summer. Under Strauss and Vaughan if England won the toss and batted.then order of play was bat the opposition out of the game in your 1st innings. Whether you bat time or make sure the top oder hit 450+ it doesn't matter.
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The maths still doesn't add up there my New Zealand friend. England gave more away than India did..
However the most important factor that Captain Cook missed was the fact the top 5 Indian batsman have very rarely given their wickets away in all 4 tests so far. There isn't a need to worry about dropped catches if your top 5 bat like they can do when winning 3/4 tosses!!
For me the rot started against Pakistan last summer. Under Strauss and Vaughan if England won the toss and batted.then order of play was bat the opposition out of the game in your 1st innings. Whether you bat time or make sure the top oder hit 450+ it doesn't matter.
Indeed you are correct! Pointless statement to make when England gave 353 runs aways. And all the play and misses made a difference? Surely playing and missing happens on bath batting sides!
I think the issues are:
- Top bats giving their wickets away (even Root)
- No front line spinners
- Ali batting too high
- confidence low in the team!
But I guess he couldn't say all that on TV ;)
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Until we find a spinner that can bowl consistently in the right areas at a lot quicker pace we won't get anywhere in the subcontinent. Ali and Rashid along with their being inconsistent have also bowled far too slowly on these wickets.
excellent point, these pitches to me anyway seem some balls have turned, some have not. Surely the most dangerous ball to play is the one that does not spin when you think it will. The pace you bowl is key here.
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Indeed you are correct! Pointless statement to make when England gave 353 runs aways. And all the play and misses made a difference? Surely playing and missing happens on bath batting sides!
I think the issues are:
- Top bats giving their wickets away (even Root)
- No front line spinners
- Ali batting too high
- confidence low in the team!
But I guess he couldn't say all that on TV ;)
top batsmen giving their wickets away is crucial....Ali does not have the mentality to bat top 5, but he's fine lower down.
At home England get away with it because if we get 300 or even 250, our bowlers are king. Away from home is flat or our medium pacers are nullified we need the batters to go big, including Root.
it's bitten us on the bum...and it was always going to. :)
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Cook wasn't there so Root brought himself on.
Cook obviously no faith in him. Root is far from a front line bowler, but he got some good drift and turn in his small spell. He needs to be used more.
Root bowler 15-20 overs and batting 3 is more likely to work than moeen bowling 50 overs and then having to come in at
Doesn't Root have back issues, which is why he doesn't bowl much as he'd rather not cripple himself and reduce his batting.
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Sorry but if Moeen Ali, by general consensus, a top order batsman. If he's unable to bat in the top 5 he sod off back to county cricket. Moeen'a bowling had the beginners luck, but that's long since disappeared. He's neither good enough with bat or ball. Don't give me this tosh he averages 100 odd at #7.
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I don't think you can underestimate how much we miss 2 players.
1. Mark Wood - would have been excellent in these conditions to be able to give the Indian batsman the hurry up.
2. James Taylor - I realise he is now not playing but he was nailed on in the troubled 4 slot before everything happened and also more importantly is an outstanding player of spin.
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@ppccopener It is indeed! And I think some of it may be because we have suddenly got a stronger mid order and even our lower order can bat in most (although not all!!) conditions! Which seems to make the top order think that they can give their wicket away as the middle order will dig us out, which is not true this time round!
But I would like to see Ali bat further down the order. If the last Test is likely to be played on a raging turner then would like to see..
Cook
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Buttler
Stokes
Dawson
Ali
Rashid
Batty
Anderson/Ball
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Rather play 11 batsmen then play 4 terrible spinners...
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Sorry but if Moeen Ali, by general consensus, a top order batsman. If he's unable to bat in the top 5 he sod off back to county cricket. Moeen'a bowling had the beginners luck, but that's long since disappeared. He's neither good enough with bat or ball. Don't give me this tosh he averages 100 odd at #7.
Felix !!!!! Ali is not a top order batsman. he cant play real pace, we shoved him up in the UAE and we have done it again because it's spin conditions, it's total folly AND WE HAVE DONE IT AGAIN THIS SERIES!!!
Top order batting is mental as much as technical.
I'm gonna blow a gasket in a minute where's walking wicket and his M and H bat's I can have a go at :) :)
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I don't think you can underestimate how much we miss 2 players.
1. Mark Wood - would have been excellent in these conditions to be able to give the Indian batsman the hurry up.
2. James Taylor - I realise he is now not playing but he was nailed on in the troubled 4 slot before everything happened and also more importantly is an outstanding player of spin.
[/b]
Outstanding player of spin in English conditions he's never faced anyone as good as Ashwin
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Rather play 11 batsmen then play 4 terrible spinners...
most sensible thing you have ever said . Period. :)
haha
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Felix !!!!! Ali is not a top order batsman. he cant play real pace, we shoved him up in the UAE and we have done it again because it's spin conditions, it's total folly AND WE HAVE DONE IT AGAIN THIS SERIES!!!
Top order batting is mental as much as technical.
I'm gonna blow a gasket in a minute where's walking wicket and his M and H bat's I can have a go at :) :)
Moeen bats #3 for WCCC so he's obviously supposed to be a front line batsman, unless their tail starts at #3
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[/b]
Outstanding player of spin in English conditions LB he's never faced anyone as good as Ashwin
Unfortunately Felix we will never know how he would have got on will we
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I don't think you can underestimate how much we miss 2 players.
1. Mark Wood - would have been excellent in these conditions to be able to give the Indian batsman the hurry up.
2. James Taylor - I realise he is now not playing but he was nailed on in the troubled 4 slot before everything happened and also more importantly is an outstanding player of spin.
This!
taylor was a cracking player of spin and would have moulded the top of the order and made us look a lot more stable.
Wood is a nother big loss as he has genuine pace and the control to cause issues almost the new simon jones
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Moeen bats #3 for WCCC so he's obviously supposed to be a front line batsman, unless their tail starts at #3
Top 3 in division 2... I think we finally get your dislike of Moen.. :) however currently our options are limited.. the management decision to bat him at 4 is baffling when YJB IS a better player. Even more baffling by the management when we won 3/4 tosses and therefore YJB was fresh and could have batted easily. The other point is that we let their bowlers get into a rhythm by batting so many left handers one after another...
All about opinions but can't think of one good reason why the management wouldn't have tried to have a left hand and a right hand batsman at the crease together as much as possible..
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Taylor would be the obvious choice as captain if he were still available.
Given the number of back to front ineptitude England have picked as 'batsmen' over the last few years, Moeen deserves his place. He has contributed a lot more to winning Test matches than a lot of the side.
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I don't dislike anyone. But apart from Moeen being a "quota pick" he's simply not good enough. Period.
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Taylor would be the obvious choice as captain if he were still available.
Given the number of back to front ineptitude England have picked as 'batsmen' over the last few years, Moeen deserves his place. He has contributed a lot more to winning Test matches than a lot of the side.
Having a slog at #7 hardly makes Moeen a vital member of the side...
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I don't dislike anyone. But apart from Moeen being a "quota pick" he's simply not good enough. Period.
is the quota yorkies and non yorkies?
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is the quota yorkies and non yorkies?
Non cider drinkers/cider drinkers ;)
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For me, at the end of the day, when all is said and done etc... etc... the worst thing I think is that England haven't actually learnt that much on this tour. Which is a great shame.
Apart from Hameed and possibly Jennings everything else was pretty much already known. Rashid and Mo aren't good enough and fold under pressure therefore we don't have spinners to compete with India's. India's batters are amazing in their conditions, particularly Kohli who is in the form of his life!
We just didn't do anything different to try and shake India up in their own backyard and if you ask the same question all the time you will always get the same answer.
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I don't dislike anyone. But apart from Moeen being a "quota pick" he's simply not good enough. Period.
Classy.
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If not one of us can decide on a team, realistically what chance do the selectors have?
In sub continent conditions we do not have any inked in picks other than Cook, Root, YJB, Stokes, Anderson & Broad(When fit). The rest of the team is still developing and has a cloud of doubt over them. Come back to English/SA/Oz conditions and you then have Woakes that joins the inked in places (In my opinion anyway).
India have 2 spinners that are inked in, wherever they play in the world Not a single inked in pick for England is a spinner, that is main problem in Indian conditions.
To add to this I know people will say Ali is nailed on to play, but that is out of necessity, not choice.
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If not one of us can decide on a team, realistically what chance do the selectors have?
In sub continent conditions we do not have any inked in picks other than Cook, Root, YJB, Stokes, Anderson & Broad(When fit). The rest of the team is still developing and has a cloud of doubt over them. Come back to English/SA/Oz conditions and you then have Woakes that joins the inked in places (In my opinion anyway).
India have 2 spinners that are inked in, wherever they play in the world Not a single inked in pick for England is a spinner, that is main problem in Indian conditions.
To add to this I know people will say Ali is nailed on to play, but that is out of necessity, not choice.
TBH Anderson's only nailed on to play in countries where they use the Duke ball
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TBH Anderson's only nailed on to play in countries where they use the Duke ball
Rubbish!
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Rubbish!
Look at his record. Sucks in Australia, South Africa and New Zealand where they use Kookaburra. Struggles in Sri Lanka again the kookaburra. Poor in India and the SG
He goes well in West Indies and UAE as they use the Duke
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Look at his record. Sucks in Australia, South Africa and New Zealand where they use Kookaburra. Struggles in Sri Lanka again the kookaburra. Poor in India and the SG
He goes well in West Indies and UAE as they use the Duke
you dont take 400 wickets and be poor in 75% of the test playing nations, he's one of englands greatest ever bowlers if not the greatest, to say hes not an auto pick is complete and utter rubbish!
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you dont take 400 wickets and be poor in 75% of the test playing nations, he's one of englands greatest ever bowlers if not the greatest, to say hes not an auto pick is complete and utter rubbish!
how dare you
its all about stats and avg now
it doesn't matter how many runs or wickets you have or how many games you win for the team
if your avg isn't sub 10 in all conditions your (No Swearing Please) (if your English that is or part south African in wrong colours)
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you dont take 400 wickets and be poor in 75% of the test playing nations, he's one of englands greatest ever bowlers if not the greatest, to say hes not an auto pick is complete and utter rubbish!
No way near the greatest English fast bowler. Trueman was twice as good
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Larwood was better again.
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Larwood was better again.
doesn't count as played on doctored English wickets and batsmen were bribed to get out to him
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Larwood was better again.
Behave
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doesn't count as played on doctored English wickets and batsmen were bribed to get out to him
Thought Larwood's claim to fame was body line?
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yes England paid groundsman to docture wickets
its only way we get wickets or do anything
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No way near the greatest English fast bowler. Trueman was twice as good
he only played to keep the yorkies happy!
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Anderson must get unreal wickets at home as to be the 3rd highest seam wicket taker and have a better strike rate than Pollock and walsh must mean he takes 8 wickets an innings at home to boost his stats
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he only played to keep the yorkies happy!
Same could be said for Root and Bairstow ;)
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I think england didnt play smart cricket this morning they could have made a better fight of it Bairstow got a good one but what was Woakes thinking he has Buttler the other end so fourth ball he faces try's to wack Ashwin over square leg misses by a mile then try's to drive him against the spin and gets bowled Absolutly awful shot selection.
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Same could be said for Root and Bairstow ;)
neither of whom have as many wickets as jimmy....
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Anderson must get unreal wickets at home as to be the 3rd highest seam wicket taker and have a better strike rate than Pollock and walsh must mean he takes 8 wickets an innings at home to boost his stats
296 at home in 133 innings
171 away in 97 innings
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neither of whom have as many wickets as jimmy....
But had vastly superior run tallies
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296 at home in 133 innings
171 away in 97 innings
so considering hes poo away he gets 1 wicket extra every 2 innings at home compared to away
2.2 per innings at home 1.8 per innings away
wish I was that bad
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296 at home in 133 innings
171 away in 97 innings
How do steyn, mcrath, lee, kallis, zaheer etc stack up? I'd guess other than zaheer it'd be similar!
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I don't dislike anyone. But apart from Moeen being a "quota pick" he's simply not good enough. Period.
@Felix Tito - which quota is he filling ?
and now back to the cricket chat....
before a CBF batter, me or his dog are facing up to Steyn, Rabada and Philander in the summer a few things for your consideration my fellow willow rubbers. These are just my musing by no means facts or even assertions. just ramblings of a cricket loving buffoon.
1. difference in this tour was Kohli - without his runs India would have struggled in most instances.
2. we have scored big first innings runs in 2 out of 3 games (400 & 537)
3. England were expected to lost 5-0, we are above exception
positives
1. We have, potentially, found a suitable, stable top 4 in Cook, Hameed, Jennings and Root for the future
2. Ali and Rashid have bowled well in games and (extremely) poorly in others. showing there is talent but they are inconsistent. they should have learnt a lot from tour. We haven't got anything better so we should work with what we have. youngsters without the right temperament and preparation will be crushed and that would not move english cricket forward
3. Butter coming in at 7 balances out the side
4. Jake ball is another good option - (we're gonna need some as Broad and Anderson, England's best bowling pair in 50 years, can't go on forever)
Issues
1. ali and rashid aren't world class spinners - did you think that would change cause we are in India?
2. Root doesn't seem to be kicking on and dominating. this is required as the next stage in his development
yes we have got beaten - fairly easily in this test - but overall the side is more developed that when it when in.
Finally - I hope some tells Cook he is a good captain with limited tools in sub continental conditions. Back in England he will be fine. bashing the chef is easy but when he's gone there with be a massive gaping hole at No1 that I don't look forward to having to fill.
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You kind of just disproved your own rule @Felix Tito .... :D
0.4 wickets per innings difference on 'helpful' to 'unhelpful' isn't a big difference...
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Back to reality then
as above I don't think we have learned anything we didn't know other than hameed and Jennings have POTENTIAL
Cook looks jaded to me and could do with giving up the captaincy as he looks as though his heart is not in it but maybe the 5 months he has off will refuel the tank but we know he is not much of a tactician and I think relies on jimmy and broad to set the fields etc in England but without a confident experienced spinner he has no one to rely on to help in sub continent
in a quandary myself as do we go with rooooooot and hope he goes well and not the way of beefy, Sachin and lara when teams made there best player skipper
or do we go left field and go someone completely new or little experience like SA did with Smith
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You kind of just disproved your own rule @Felix Tito .... :D
0.4 wickets per innings difference on 'helpful' to 'unhelpful' isn't a big difference...
Anderson averages 25 at home and 34 away. So he gets less wickets and conceded more runs. Hence we lose more matches...
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Who has the right temperament or nowse to do it in the current side?
I do believe captains and leaders are born not made as it needs to be natural like one of my favourites clive llyod or border or Vaughn
I cant think of anyone in the side now that looks a natural leader with the right temperament
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Who has the right temperament or nowse to do it in the current side?
I do believe captains and leaders are born not made as it needs to be natural like one of my favourites clive llyod or border or Vaughn
I cant think of anyone in the side now that looks a natural leader with the right temperament
I'd go buttler, wouldn't need to keep and I think he's a better shout at 4 than moeen and did really wel skippering in the Odis in Bangladesh
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Anderson averages 25 at home and 34 away. So he gets less wickets and conceded more runs. Hence we lose more matches...
Take the blinkers off... you've proven the difference in wickets is negligible
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Take the blinkers off... you've proven the difference in wickets is negligible
yes but its a difference of 9
that's too big so we should only play him at home and ashwin (who is prob best spinner out there now) has a difference of 12 home and away so he should only play home as well
Lets just only play home tests as there must be something in growing up and playing 80% of your cricket in certain conditions that makes it easier to be better at home than away but I cant put my finger on it
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Unless we have an absolute mare of a summer Cook's last series as captain will be Ashes away 2017/18.
Cook has 5 months off after this then we should beat the Windies at home and even if we lose to SA they would be mad to give the new captain a first series an away Ashes.
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The more I look at it the more it seems that Cook wants to go, has told the ECB he's done with the captaincy but the ECB have overruled and told him they don't want him to go until after the Ashes.
Will be interesting to see in the summer what his interest/enthusiasm levels are.
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South Africa at home does seem to be the series that ends the reign of England's captains! If I remember correctly Nasser, Vaughan and Strauss were all ousted during/after series vs sa at home
Just sayin....
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The more I look at it the more it seems that Cook wants to go, has told the ECB he's done with the captaincy but the ECB have overruled and told him they don't want him to go until after the Ashes.
Will be interesting to see in the summer what his interest/enthusiasm levels are.
I think youre right, you could see he has flown straight out after the birth of his daughter and the job is wearing him down and it does everyone who has done it.
Cook is doing England a massive service, he is trying to get the team settled before he hands over the reins
im convinced of it.......
and we are not settled are we? I honestly think we are improving, yes we have come unstuck in India, but from the last couple of years swann.kp.bell.prior,strauss all gone
and we have had a lot of changes in the team
straussy will want him to do it another year I reckon.....
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The whole Cook thing is bs. Him and Strauss are best mates and the last thing they would want for a young team is a change in captain. Cook hardly gets overworked as he just does tests and he always knew India was a tough gig with the spinners he had.
The blame has to go towards the selection panel who let Ballance go, take one seamer too many, and didn't work out another left armed turning the ball away might of been sensible against a team of right handers. Even after Bangladesh they could of moved players between the lions and the squad and they didn't.
Add to that a complete lack of planning after Pakistan mauling our spinners in the UAE last winter and you really have to wonder what Strauss & Co has been doing for the past 12 months.
On the brightside we haven't just lost at home to an injury ravaged team ;) , yet.
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Just seen the Vaughan interview saying Bayliss has lost 11 out of 21 tests. Worrying for a side with the class of England's seam attack who also have Root & Cook in the top 6! At what stage do we look at Bayliss as a whole and ask if he's right for the job?
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Just seen the Vaughan interview saying Bayliss has lost 11 out of 21 tests. Worrying for a side with the class of England's seam attack who also have Root & Cook in the top 6! At what stage do we look at Bayliss as a whole and ask if he's right for the job?
Great use of stats.
Ashes 3-2
Lost 2-0 in UAE
SA 2-1
Sri Lanka 1-0
2-2 Pakistan
1-1 Bangladesh
3-0 down in India
Undefeated at home
Won in SA
Stuffed in Asia.
Could be worse. Two games were dead rubbers we lost.
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Michael Vaughan jumps on any bandwagon he can, he also doesn't tend to use stats very well, picked Gary sobers in his best ever ODI XI despite him playing one ODI
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He's been good for us, he must of been brought in because our one day cricket was 5 years behind everybody else and Strauss and whoever else made the decision we can't be snobbish any more and treat limited overs cricket as second class. Let's be honest that's exactly what we did for years, absolutely years!!
He wants aggressive positive cricket and it's worked in the one dayers. I'm not sure it can translate as well to test cricket.
The game has changed yes but you cannot just stick one day players in and hope it works over five days. Unless you have the technique and mental strength to bat time you will be found out. And we have been.
Seems now slightly different thinking with jennings and and def hameed-these guys are potentially test players for a long time,hameed especially I think.
Overall I think he's a good coach and a good fit for England.
Might be worth remembering as my pak mate pointed out to me today, SA and Aust have been soundly thrashed in Asia in the last 6 months.
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one day players in test cricket work... look at warner
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Michael Vaughan is just a pathetic click bait merchant these days. Genuine rent a quote.
Cook has effectively resigned already, he doesn't need the captaincy anymore.
Whoever takes over, I assume Root, will have a very stable starting point for the summer...
Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Moeen
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
Bayliss needs to up his game or let his number 2 step up.
But there isn't a lot to change.
India have a better team than us right now, which is light years better than us at home.
Having a rant about everything is a waste of energy. Results will get better, confidence will return and results will improve.
This is a tough tour, that happens.
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Off of someones head, how many times have our squad visited india... Buttler (constant IPL experience) Root 2? cook 3? anderson 3? broad 3? the rest... have they?
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one day players in test cricket work... look at warner
I think Warner is a one off. You can point at Morgan & Hales as examples of it not working so well. I think for the most part you need to be able to technically be good enough to start with to play test cricket.
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need to be able to technically be good enough to start with to play test cricket.
Steve Smith? :D :D
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Steve Smith? :D :D
Played as a bowler who could bat a bit!
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one day players in test cricket work... look at warner
You and Glenn McGrath bowl bowl medium pace. Same game different game.
Bit quicker when walking wicket pads up I grant you. :)
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Michael Vaughan is just a pathetic click bait merchant these days. Genuine rent a quote.
Cook has effectively resigned already, he doesn't need the captaincy anymore.
Whoever takes over, I assume Root, will have a very stable starting point for the summer...
Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Moeen
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
Bayliss needs to up his game or let his number 2 step up.
But there isn't a lot to change.
India have a better team than us right now, which is light years better than us at home.
Having a rant about everything is a waste of energy. Results will get better, confidence will return and results will improve.
This is a tough tour, that happens.
Agree when we get to July 2017 by the start of the tests this tour will be nothing more than a memory the players will be revigorated and ready to go. Hopefully England will have a fit mark wood in the team who is a far better bowler than Woakes and a good bat low down the order.
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You and Glenn McGrath bowl bowl medium pace. Same game different game.
Bit quicker when walking wicket pads up I grant you. :)
hahaha, he asks for it i swear!
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Michael Vaughan jumps on any bandwagon he can, he also doesn't tend to use stats very well, picked Gary sobers in his best ever ODI XI despite him playing one ODI
To be fair on that one as he is the greatest cricketer ever I bet he would still have been awesome and would have figured it out pretty quick
Viv never played t20 but by god he'd be a good bet in them
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Michael Vaughan jumps on any bandwagon he can, he also doesn't tend to use stats very well, picked Gary sobers in his best ever ODI XI despite him playing one ODI
Gary sobers the greatest cricketer I've seen play in my lifetime surely the greatest all rounder of all time.
Will always remember him hitting Nash for six sixes in one over
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. Hopefully England will have a fit mark wood in the team who is a far better bowler than Woakes and a good bat low down the order.
@Seniorplayer in Woakes-bashing shocker ;) :D
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To be fair on that one as he is the greatest cricketer ever I bet he would still have been awesome and would have figured it out pretty quick
Viv never played t20 but by god he'd be a good bet in them
I wasnt doubting Mr Sobers talent at all :)
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I still don't get the anti-Woakes sentiment! In the last 12 months he's pretty much on par with Jimmy (Stats below) I've also added Broad for comparison.
Woakes
M I O W SR E
(13 25 363.2 42 26.07 3.01)
Jimmy
M I O W SR E
(12 21 394.1 41 23.73 2.46)
Broad
M I O W SR E
(14 26 464.4 51 24.49 2.68)
While also averaging 28.66 with the bat.
What more do you want from your Bowling all rounder?
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@Seniorplayer in Woakes-bashing shocker ;) :D
Well I stand by the post when you just come in trying to sweep ashwin from outside off stump over midwicket and then trying to drive against the spin and getting bowled wasn't smart cricket when you have Buttler the other end.
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I still don't get the anti-Woakes sentiment! In the last 12 months he's pretty much on par with Jimmy (Stats below) I've also added Broad for comparison.
Woakes
M I O W SR E
(13 25 363.2 42 26.07 3.01)
Jimmy
M I O W SR E
(12 21 394.1 41 23.73 2.46)
Broad
M I O W SR E
(14 26 464.4 51 24.49 2.68)
While also averaging 28.66 with the bat.
What more do you want from your Bowling all rounder?
woakes ins't going to do much on these wickets, but neither has Anderson..apart from wind up the opposition, and neither really has Broad
all our seamers are doing part of the holding job we would expect decent spinners to do. But we don't have anyone to tie down an end.
Of the lot of them Ball and Broad are just as likely to get wickets as anyone else, apart from Rashid who, far as I know, has got the most of everyone :)
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I still don't get the anti-Woakes sentiment! In the last 12 months he's pretty much on par with Jimmy (Stats below) I've also added Broad for comparison.
Woakes
M I O W SR E
(13 25 363.2 42 26.07 3.01)
Jimmy
M I O W SR E
(12 21 394.1 41 23.73 2.46)
Broad
M I O W SR E
(14 26 464.4 51 24.49 2.68)
While also averaging 28.66 with the bat.
What more do you want from your Bowling all rounder?
Wickets and runs in this series would be a good place to start. Also Averages can be misleading you shouldn't keep getting selected on the back of one decent summer against opposition who were poor at times.
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interesting stuff in interview from Kholi. not the most humble of cricketers it must be said :)
however......he says Indian and Asian batsmen are always rated on how they do in English conditions especially, but flip the coin and English players don't get the same comparison as being judged on spinning tracks
he def has a point... don't think there's many who would not say Ponting was not a great batsman, didn't score any runs in the sub continent.
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Well I stand by the post when you just come in trying to sweep ashwin from outside off stump over midwicket and then trying to drive against the spin and getting bowled wasn't smart cricket when you have Buttler the other end.
You are spot on about Woakes but you could say Root, Cook, Rashid and Moen have thrown their wickets away at the wrong time on more than one occasion since the last test against Pakistan.
For me India have just out thought England. Their top 5 hardly given their wickets away and the tale has stuck around and batted intelligently...
Simples...
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You are spot on about Woakes but you could say Root, Cook, Rashid and Moen have thrown their wickets away at the wrong time on more than one occasion since the last test against Pakistan.
For me India have just out thought England. Their top 5 hardly given their wickets away and the tale has stuck around and batted intelligently...
Simples...
yep.....exactly
you cant argue with @Seniorplayer Woakes has not had a good series. the runs lower down are missing and no penetration with the ball. It's just about the same with everyone else. I would still have him in the side perhaps where we differ.
But people are allowed a different opinion...after all it's a forum
:)
and what makes it great. Reports of our death are greatly exaggerated haha :) :)
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yep.....exactly
you cant argue with @Seniorplayer Woakes has not had a good series. the runs lower down are missing and no penetration with the ball. It's just about the same with everyone else. I would still have him in the side perhaps where we differ.
But people are allowed a different opinion...after all it's a forum
:)
and what makes it great. Reports of our death are greatly exaggerated haha :) :)
I would have Woakes in at moment to but with Woody, Ball, plunkett (on right surface) and Tom Curren, I think Woakes needs to look over his shoulder. To be honest I don't think Jimmy will be playing for England 2018 home series and Broad seems to play 2 test matches then misses 2. Not exactly a "sick note" but time waits for no one... ;)
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I would have Woakes in at moment to but with Woody, Ball, plunkett (on right surface) and Tom Curren, I think Woakes needs to look over his shoulder. To be honest I don't think Jimmy will be playing for England 2018 home series and Broad seems to play 2 test matches then misses 2. Not exactly a "sick note" but time waits for no one... ;)
Broad is a concern im not sure flogging him any more in a series we are 0 -3 down in benefits anyone to be honest. Jimmy has had a long lay off he should be ok.
Wood I really hope i'm wrong but his injuries so far tell me unless he bucks history with fast bowlers who have got badly injured in their 20's he will have a short career. Or lose pace significantly.
hope im wrong, he's scarily fast on any surface.....and he reverses it which has been totally missing in India.
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Woakes stays - he was the best bowler last summer and is a natural successor to Anderson but better with the bat.
If he ends up at 10 we will have a long tail!
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Woakes' ability in English conditions has never been in doubt. 300 odd F/C wickets at 24. He'd clueless when there's no swing
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Woakes' ability in English conditions has never been in doubt. 300 odd F/C wickets at 24. He'd clueless when there's no swing
a bit like Anderson.... some people say ;) ;) :o :o :( :(
PS - thats not me by the way :) :)
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Updated ICC player rankings out. R Ashwin has become the first Indian bowler to ever break the 900 point barrier. 5th best ranking for a spinner ever.
Kohli has moved within 9 points of Steven Smith.
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a bit like Anderson.... some people say ;) ;) :o :o :( :(
PS - thats not me by the way :) :)
Anderson is coming back from injury he's taken wickets all around the world
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interesting Jayant Yadav in at 56 in the batting - thats above KL Rahul, Patal, Gambhir and Saha
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this is interesting -
http://www.lgiccrankings.com/ranking/test/batting/ (http://www.lgiccrankings.com/ranking/test/batting/)
then hover over the 'mens test statistics' and there is a 'best ever ratings' to click on -
Batting is Bradman 961 points in 1948
Bowling - SF Barnes 932 points in 1914
putting it into perspective currently no.1 batting is Smith on 897 points and no.1 bowling is Ashwin on 904 points.
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Talking of fringe seamers, those knocking at the door etc - has anyone actually seen Sam Curran bowl?
I believe he is a left-armer, and therefore may offer some variety to the attack. He's in the Lions squad, is he any good - could he jump the queue?
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this is interesting -
the best ever ratings -
Batting is Bradman 961 points in 1948
[url]http://www.lgiccrankings.com/ranking/test/batting/[/url] ([url]http://www.lgiccrankings.com/ranking/test/batting/[/url])
Bowling - SF Barnes 932 points in 1914
putting it into perspective currently no.1 batting is Smith on 897 points and no.1 bowling is Ashwin on 904 points.
[url]http://www.lgiccrankings.com/ranking/test/batting/[/url] ([url]http://www.lgiccrankings.com/ranking/test/batting/[/url])
No disrespect to Ashwin but this is why stats can be ssssooooo misleading...
How many of those points have been amassed during the past 12 months AWAY from India...
Same with Steve "flat track from a drop in pitch" smith...
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Woakes stays - he was the best bowler last summer and is a natural successor to Anderson but better with the bat.
If he ends up at 10 we will have a long tail!
I think Sri Lanka were a poor side and Pakistan struggled with the cold weather picticualy up at Durham .
Let's see what woakes and the others can do when the tests start in July when the sun pops out that should help tell us who replaces Anderson
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this is interesting -
[url]http://www.lgiccrankings.com/ranking/test/batting/[/url] ([url]http://www.lgiccrankings.com/ranking/test/batting/[/url])
then hover over the 'mens test statistics' and there is a 'best ever ratings' to click on -
Batting is Bradman 961 points in 1948
Bowling - SF Barnes 932 points in 1914
putting it into perspective currently no.1 batting is Smith on 897 points and no.1 bowling is Ashwin on 904 points.
Steven Smith's all time best was 936
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No disrespect to Ashwin but this is why stats can be ssssooooo misleading...
How many of those points have been amassed during the past 12 months AWAY from India...
Same with Steve "flat track from a drop in pitch" smith...
So Smith's 3 100s in England where a figure of my imagination? :o
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Talking of fringe seamers, those knocking at the door etc - has anyone actually seen Sam Curran bowl?
I believe he is a left-armer, and therefore may offer some variety to the attack. He's in the Lions squad, is he any good - could he jump the queue?
I would personally have him and Tom in.the one day squad for champions trophy...
Both excellent bowlers and deserve chance above Jordan, Finn and Woakes. Sams batting has really come on. As shown in recent lions tour, he and Tom can get their heads down and score runs if there has been a collapse..
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So Smith's 3 100s in England where a figure of my imagination? :o
When was that Felix? You mean that big 100 at lords where my Gran would have made a 100 ( and she is no longer with us).. And England threw their wickets away trying to get quick runs? ( that sounds familiar)..
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When was that Felix? You mean that big 100 at lords where my Gran would have made a 100 ( and she is no longer with us).. And England threw their wickets away trying to get quick runs? ( that sounds familiar)..
If x, y, z throw their wickets away it's their own fault.
So by that logic because we've been happy to throw wickets away in India, does that mean Kohli should do like wise? Heck no he's battered us black and blue...
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Talking of fringe seamers, those knocking at the door etc - has anyone actually seen Sam Curran bowl?
I believe he is a left-armer, and therefore may offer some variety to the attack. He's in the Lions squad, is he any good - could he jump the queue?
here you go Cat - this shows both Sam and Tom bowling....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xsTUSgUUVg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xsTUSgUUVg)
also Footitt.... what happened to him he did nothing at Surrey this year?
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If x, y, z throw their wickets away it's their own fault.
So by that logic because we've been happy to throw wickets away in India, does that mean Kohli should do like wise? Heck no he's battered us black and blue...
Not sure what you mean Felix... I am not sure that if England had batted with the same common sense as India had in this series, that we would have won any of the last 3 tests. Infact the way Pujura and Kohli have batted reminds me of how,magnificent Laxman was against the Aussies all those years ago...
My point about Steve Smith in England was that when he made his big 100, Englands batting display was amongst the worst 5 I have seen in my life time based on standard of opposition and conditions...
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here you go Cat - this shows both Sam and Tom bowling....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xsTUSgUUVg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xsTUSgUUVg)
also Footitt.... what happened to him he did nothing at Surrey this year?
Hmm, doesn't look particularly quick, but without it hooping around he seems to bowl a pretty tidy line.
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steve smith in England did score big runs, yes 3 tons. didn't help Australia win the series.
he's got stats that say he is a top class player
personally i'd rather watched a mechanic change a tyre on a car that watch him bat.
but that's just IMHO
:)
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So Smith's 3 100s in England where a figure of my imagination? :o
im sure these were all on flat wickets that were described as roads?
nothing more than a flat track bully
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steve smith in England did score big runs, yes 3 tons. didn't help Australia win the series.
he's got stats that say he is a top class player
personally i'd rather watched a mechanic change a tyre on a car that watch him bat.
but that's just IMHO
:)
To be honest I only remember 2 in the test matches. One at "road" that is lords and the other at the Oval... Don't really need to comment on the Oval...😊😊
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On a slightly different note not sure this is still the 'Cook' thread I suppose it is, we are on England v India :)
Vic Marks in the Guardian questioning the selectors choices for this tour and how impartial they can be still associated to their clubs. Tricky one this not sure there is an ideal situation for selectors to choose players
Would they push their own players? Hmmmmm..... they would know their character better, they would also want them representing England.....
also if sure Cook will be gone as Captain by July. that's a guess of course only Cook will know. I think it will prove right thou and that's a shame. Root should not automatically be given it, and the team is improving under Cook.
i'm sure others will disagree but he is still scoring runs and leading the team. Not convinced myself Root is the right man anyway.
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Root proved he was the right manny bringing himself on, looking the most dangerous England have for 4 overs before cookie returned and out a stop to his pesky shenanigans!!!
That was a joke, we will only know if root is right if or when he takes over. Same with stokes and or buttler.
Personally for test I believe root is the man.
I reckons toles will end up like flintoff/kp and short lived, if he did get the role.
I'm not yet convinced buttler should be in the side yet.
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I think Cook may stay as Capt for the tour to Aus the 1st test is Nov 2017 and then step down as the selectors won't want ta new Capt to start off in Aus also believe Buttler is not that far behind in the running for The Captainacy.
Also think a few on here could have done a better job picking the squad for this tour than the selectors
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I think Cook may stay as Capt for the tour to Aus the 1st test is Nov 2017 and then step down as the selectors won't want ta new Capt to start off in Aus also believe Buttler is not that far behind in the running for The Captainacy.
Also think a few on here could have done a better job picking the squad for this tour than the selectors
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I would personally have him and Tom in.the one day squad for champions trophy...
Both excellent bowlers and deserve chance above Jordan, Finn and Woakes. Sams batting has really come on. As shown in recent lions tour, he and Tom can get their heads down and score runs if there has been a collapse..
Neither of the brothers are as good as Woakes..
Not saying there not going to be just not at the minute but that only my opinion...
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Neither of the brothers are as good as Woakes..
Not saying there not going to be just not at the minute but that only my opinion...
I watched tom bowl at root and bairstow for a day at headingley earlier this year. On that pitch on that day he didn't bother either of them once.
Different pitch different day could have been a different result. But it's all woakes in India again. The mass won't be happy with wickets at home on green tops. People have to steam through sides on unfamiliar pitches to be rated at all apparently
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Woakes is quality for England and has been for quite a while. India aside where very few can say anything.
Woakes is a quality all rounder and I expect him to get better and the improvent he has shown.
I
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I'm going to throw Roland-Jones into the equation. From the bits I have seen, I think he has as much about him as Tom Curran.
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Don't forget he was in the squad for the Lord's Test. TRJ is a great county bowler, but does he have the required nip?
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Woakes is quality for England and has been for quite a while. India aside where very few can say anything.
Woakes is a quality all rounder and I expect him to get better and the improvent he has shown.
I
Well Dave can he get any worse also with just two fiftys in 17 tests wouldnt call him a quality all rounder
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I would say he will grow more into the role.
You look at 50 his average is ok for a number 8 well was above stokes before this series.
Also our quickest bowler
So stokes only averages 5 more per innings and for a guy batting in our top order is not good enough just saying like I know averages are not everything
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I would say he will grow more into the role.
You look at 50 his average is ok for a number 8 well was above stokes before this series.
Also our quickest bowler
So stokes only averages 5 more per innings and for a guy batting in our top order is not good enough just saying like I know averages are not everything
Yes he's quick but isn't a fit and firing Mark wood quicker
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Yes he's quick but isn't a fit and firing Mark wood quicker
Thought we are talking about all rounders
And when Wood gonna happen ????
End of the day Woakes is quality weather you pull up and stats you want I know you don't like him an love to pull the crap stays out but Woakes is a proven test cricketer and has proven when you give him a run he usually does well
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Thought we are talking about all rounders
And when Wood gonna happen ????
End of the day Woakes is quality weather you pull up and stats you want I know you don't like him an love to pull the crap stays out but Woakes is a proven test cricketer and has proven when you give him a run he usually does well
Don't dislike him just don't believe he is good enough to be called an all rounder or should currently be in the England team also can't see what he's done to quoted as a proven test cricketer one good season on green tops is okay but you have to be consistent around the world with bat and ball.
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I would say he will grow more into the role.
You look at 50 his average is ok for a number 8 well was above stokes before this series.
Also our quickest bowler
So stokes only averages 5 more per innings and for a guy batting in our top order is not good enough just saying like I know averages are not everything
Are you saying Woakes should be ahead of Stokes? not for me. Infact in English conditions and with a new ball I would have Stokes ahead of Woakes.
Stokes bowling reminds me a lot of Simon Jones.. Very under rated and could make a ball talk in certain conditions. Infact England only realised how good he was when the injury cut his career short and he was no longer available.
I admire Woakes for how hard he has worked and every aspiring player can use him as a benchmark for what hard work gets you... But he IMHO is not on the same planet as Stokes..
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5HnQ8fLVVU&ab_channel=CricketArchivesHD (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5HnQ8fLVVU&ab_channel=CricketArchivesHD) why haven't we played spin like this, this series? quick singles, decisive safe shots...
and one of the strangest keeping techniques i've ever seen
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why haven't we played spin like this, this series? quick singles, decisive safe shots...
Little James Taylor would of solved all these problems!
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Are you saying Woakes should be ahead of Stokes? not for me. Infact in English conditions and with a new ball I would have Stokes ahead of Woakes.
Stokes bowling reminds me a lot of Simon Jones.. Very under rated and could make a ball talk in certain conditions. Infact England only realised how good he was when the injury cut his career short and he was no longer available.
I admire Woakes for how hard he has worked and every aspiring player can use him as a benchmark for what hard work gets you... But he IMHO is not on the same planet as Stokes..
I'm not suggesting that I'm suggesting he is rightly placed behind him in the que of all rounders and in my
Opinion is a better bowler than stokes consistently.
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I'm not suggesting that I'm suggesting he is rightly placed behind him in the que of all rounders and in my
Opinion is a better bowler than stokes consistently.
the thing is bowling in the sub continent our medium pacers look ordinary, they all do. it been they case for as long as I can remember touring there.
As you rightly say thou Woakes is actually our quickest bowler and I'd never have though that a couple of years ago, I wondered prob with a lot of others why we picked the guy.
But he's come on and improving massively, we need his pace and having seen Jake Ball bowl as well-he is quick and gets bounce. we need guys to take over from Anderson eventually, it's going to be Woakes i'm sure, he is a proper batter too although agreed he has not batted well this tour.
Where I agree with @Seniorplayer is this 'genuine allrounder' tag, Stokes is by far the best we have and maybe already as good as Flintoff was, maybe could be as good as Botham.
Woakes is not in that category, but I would still have him in the side pretty much one of the first names. IMHO. :)
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the thing is bowling in the sub continent our medium pacers look ordinary, they all do. it been they case for as long as I can remember touring there.
As you rightly say thou Woakes is actually our quickest bowler and I'd never have though that a couple of years ago, I wondered prob with a lot of others why we picked the guy.
But he's come on and improving massively, we need his pace and having seen Jake Ball bowl as well-he is quick and gets bounce. we need guys to take over from Anderson eventually, it's going to be Woakes i'm sure, he is a proper batter too although agreed he has not batted well this tour.
Where I agree with @Seniorplayer is this 'genuine allrounder' tag, Stokes is by far the best we have and maybe already as good as Flintoff was, maybe could be as good as Botham.
Woakes is not in that category, but I would still have him in the side pretty much one of the first names. IMHO. :)
Excellent post... I still believe the fitter Stokes gets and the more overs he gets under his belt then he would be promoted up the bowling order.
The swing he produced against the Aussies was no fluke and when he wants to he does produce a nasty short ball.
I really hope England carry on using tall quick bowlers because they can often get something other bowlers can't.
For me though and with all injuries to one side.. I would open with Anderson and wood in.the next 12 months.
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A lot of people talking Wood up - I don't think he's ever going to be a test bowler. It doesn't look as if England would ever get 3 consecutive tests out of him and it would be disruptive to try to keep shoe-horning him into the side.
Look at where the Aussies were waiting for Cummins and Pattinson, it just doesn't happen for them.
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A lot of people talking Wood up - I don't think he's ever going to be a test bowler. It doesn't look as if England would ever get 3 consecutive tests out of him and it would be disruptive to try to keep shoe-horning him into the side.
Look at where the Aussies were waiting for Cummins and Pattinson, it just doesn't happen for them.
TBH cat that's why I said injuries aside. I have seen a lot of him up North and he will need to get games under his belt before he gets into his rhythm but when you see how he cleaned up Joe Root last year then surely it's worth trying to get him fit.
Infact if you look world wide at fast bowlers, not many go injury free. Broady, Anderson, Stark, Cummins, Steyn have all missed a big chunk of games in last 2 years..
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Thought we are talking about all rounders
And when Wood gonna happen ????
End of the day Woakes is quality weather you pull up and stats you want I know you don't like him an love to pull the crap stays out but Woakes is a proven test cricketer and has proven when you give him a run he usually does well
Here's why what you have written doesn't add up
Proven test cricketers and proven test cricket all rounders score big hundreds and take wickets and the best can do so in the same test match.
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I would open with Anderson and wood in.the next 12 months.
You just try and take that new ball off of Broad without being on the receiving end of a major league hissy fit haha :D
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You just try and take that new ball off of Broad without being on the receiving end of a major league hissy fit haha :D
😂😂😂
How true... Another reason why Stokesy should get captain's job. He will upset Broad for the sake of the team (just look how he has reigned his batting in during the recent series)..
Personally, I think Captain Cook would never take the new ball off Broad... I was just stating what I think would work..
😂😂😂😂
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Here's why what you have written doesn't add up
Proven test cricketers and proven test cricket all rounders score big hundreds and take wickets and the best can do so in the same test match.
We shall see.
I guess I must bow down to your superior knowledge of the game and the fact you know it all.
Fair play..
All I know is England think a lot about Woakes and over the last 18 months not many have come on like he has...
But I will bow to you
I guess we must modifiy him down to a moderate all rounder who averages 30 with bat and ball.
For me and only me your doing ok if you average 30 with bat and ball at test cricket.
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We shall see.
I guess I must bow down to your superior knowledge of the game and the fact you know it all.
Fair play..
All I know is England think a lot about Woakes and over the last 18 months not many have come on like he has...
But I will bow to you
I guess we must modifiy him down to a moderate all rounder who averages 30 with bat and ball.
For me and only me your doing ok if you average 30 with bat and ball at test cricket.
To write that I am condescending Dave is unnesserary but what we both know is many factors can influence averages
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Jimmy is out of the 5th test - so Broad in if fit or debut for Dawson or Batty again if 3 spinners or drop Ball as well and completely change everything.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38326461 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38326461)
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Is "general soreness" just an excuse for being dropped??
4 wickets in 3 matches
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England wouldn't drop him when he is fit same with Broad.....but like all the other seamers there has not been many wickets.
Anderson needs something in the pitch to get wickets, like a lot of bowlers...
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England wouldn't drop him when he is fit same with Broad.....but like all the other seamers there has not been many wickets.
Anderson needs something in the pitch to get wickets, like a lot of bowlers...
Don't buy it, a lot easier to say he's injured then saying he's been dropped. Stops the opposition and press getting on his back particularly after his comments last match. Pointless him playing in the last test anyway, might as well give the experience to someone like ball. Don't see Anderson touring the subcontinent again, save him for home conditions
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England wouldn't drop him when he is fit same with Broad.....but like all the other seamers there has not been many wickets.
Anderson needs something in the pitch to get wickets, like a lot of bowlers...
This isn't going to happen but....
Rest Broad.. Let Ball open the bowling.. Play the extra spinner... Bat Ali in this order...
Cook
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Butler
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Ball
????
This way after the openers the left hand, right hand combination comes in.. Not rocket science to know that have 4 lefties come in one after another gives the bowlers a great opportunity to just hit a length..
Like I said.. Never going to happen..
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Is "general soreness" just an excuse for being dropped??
No, it's a euphemism for being rogered by the opposition...
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Don't buy it, a lot easier to say he's injured then saying he's been dropped. Stops the opposition and press getting on his back particularly after his comments last match. Pointless him playing in the last test anyway, might as well give the experience to someone like ball. Don't see Anderson touring the subcontinent again, save him for home conditions
I like Ball, big heart, tall and he's pretty quick. England will not want to lose Anderson and Broad at the same time (retirement/injury) i'm getting worried about both.
Youre right Jimmy won't be bowling much on flat decks anymore I don't think. We need to get as long as possible out of him and Broad.
think about taking out Anderson and Broad and we are not flushed with options. Ball yes, Woakes......
cant see what all the fuss is about the curran brothers but ive been wrong before :)
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In related news, Jennings to captain the lions vs Sri Lanka in February, with Hameed also selected. No Duckett for the first class games which is a surprise/shame. Be interesting to see where Jennings and Hameed bat! More county top 3 bats in Gubbins/Westley also included in the squad, will Jennings and Hameed open together or (presumably most likely) will one of them bat 3?
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This way after the openers the left hand, right hand combination comes in.. Not rocket science to know that have 4 lefties come in one after another gives the bowlers a great opportunity to just hit a length..
I'm always curious when people talk about alternating left/right handers in batting lineups - if a left hander gets out, are you going to promote the next leftie up a spot to keep the combination going? If not, what's the point?
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I think either Broad or Dawson will play dependent on the pitch and how much experience Cook wants in his seam attack.
I reckon they rate Ball so they will give him another go so just a question of whether we play 3 spinners.
As has been said I really would like to see the batting order change but it's not going to happen.
Side and order i want -
Cook
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Butler
Stokes
Ali
Woakes
Dawson
Ball
Rashid
I don't see any point playing Broad or Jimmy in a dead rubber - play 3 spinners in Chennai (Ashwins home ground) - Ali should be batting at 7 - also i would like to give Butler the chance to prove he can do it up the order.
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I'm always curious when people talk about alternating left/right handers in batting lineups - if a left hander gets out, are you going to promote the next leftie up a spot to keep the combination going? If not, what's the point?
You can only do this if you have 3/4 batsman of equal ability and to be fair its mainly a tactic against spinner's. I heard the late great Richie Benaud talking about it and TBH it so makes sense its frightening...
Ali,Butler, Stokes, duckett, bairstow and root could all bat 4/5/6 so in this particular series, yes, I would have altered the batting line up accordingly.
Its extremely hard to come to the crease and start playing a spinner who is on the money immediately..
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Doesn't Dawson bat 5/6 for Hampshire? Or do we think England see him more as a bowling allrounder (same as they viewed Ansari) at this stage?
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cant see what all the fuss is about the curran brothers but ive been wrong before :)
For me both brothers should be in the one day/T20 sides next season.. Both are very intelligent bowlers for their years, both hate losing and could IMHO turn into decent all rounders.
However at test match level I don't think either is quick enough but I really do believe that we have any current players and a crop of good young players where no one needs to play all 3 formats..
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Doesn't Dawson bat 5/6 for Hampshire? Or do we think England see him more as a bowling allrounder (same as they viewed Ansari) at this stage?
Don't know :) but I do know one thing, England if we are to reached the promised land of winning in Asia(yes last tour we won due to KP and swann and panesar) we need a proper spinner
there's a lot of expectation for Leach who is in the Lions tour, I hope he does reach he level we need.
far as I know Dawson is a fairly average county bowler who can bat.
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For me both brothers should be in the one day/T20 sides next season.. Both are very intelligent bowlers for their years, both hate losing and could IMHO turn into decent all rounders.
However at test match level I don't think either is quick enough but I really do believe that we have any current players and a crop of good young players where no one needs to play all 3 formats..
I don't think either are quite ready yet. As for their test credentials, I think Tom might lack the gas, thought you never know till a bowler has been tried - if you discount his first test, Matthew Hoggard bowled 82 his entire career and did okay, so it can be done.
Sam is a bit different - his body is still maturing, and he has the potential to put on a yard or two yet. In any event, his role at the top level is likely to be closer to the one played by a Stokes or Ali in their early career - batting at seven and being the fifth/sixth bowler.
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I don't think either are quite ready yet. As for their test credentials, I think Tom might lack the gas, thought you never know till a bowler has been tried - if you discount his first test, Matthew Hoggard bowled 82 his entire career and did okay, so it can be done.
Sam is a bit different - his body is still maturing, and he has the potential to put on a yard or two yet. In any event, his role at the top level is likely to be closer to the one played by a Stokes or Ali in their early career - batting at seven and being the fifth/sixth bowler.
You obviously have watched them a fair bit... You reckon they both could be in champions trophy squad?? Just think the likes of Jordan, Woakes, Finn just don't have enough variations in their bowling..
Neither looks fazed by pressure and Sam seems to becoming on leaps and bounds...
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You obviously have watched them a fair bit... You reckon they both could be in champions trophy squad?? Just think the likes of Jordan, Woakes, Finn just don't have enough variations in their bowling..
Neither looks fazed by pressure and Sam seems to becoming on leaps and bounds...
The Royal London group stages are all at the start of the season (27th April - 17th May) before the Champions Trophy (starts 1st June) so anyone could stake a claim if they do well.
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The Royal London group stages are all at the start of the season (27th April - 17th May) before the Champions Trophy (starts 1st June) so anyone could stake a claim if they do well.
Cheers for that... Curran's a shoe in then 😀 as there will be no play up north on those dates.. 😤😤
P.S. I am from "up north"
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Jordan and Finn aren't in the current ODI squad, which is:
Eoin Morgan, Moeen Ali, Jonathan Bairstow, Jake Ball, Sam Billings, Jos Buttler, Liam Dawson, Alex Hales, Liam Plunkett, Adil Rashid, Joe Root, Jason Roy, Ben Stokes, David Willey, Chris Woakes.
First choice XI is more or less set in stone now (other than possibly the last seam spot):
Hales
Roy
Root
Morgan
Stokes
Buttler
Moeen
Woakes
Rashid
Willey
Plunkett
leaving Bairstow, Billings, Dawson and Ball as the squad players. Very hard to see many outside getting involved barring injuries.
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Jordan and Finn aren't in the current ODI squad, which is:
Eoin Morgan, Moeen Ali, Jonathan Bairstow, Jake Ball, Sam Billings, Jos Buttler, Liam Dawson, Alex Hales, Liam Plunkett, Adil Rashid, Joe Root, Jason Roy, Ben Stokes, David Willey, Chris Woakes.
First choice XI is more or less set in stone now (other than possibly the last seam spot):
Hales
Roy
Root
Morgan
Stokes
Buttler
Moeen
Woakes
Rashid
Willey
Plunkett
leaving Bairstow, Billings, Dawson and Ball as the squad players. Very hard to see many outside getting involved barring injuries.
I did notice the few missing on the tour to India.. I was basing my thoughts on who would be picked for English conditions during champions trophy. My team:
Hales
Roy
Root
Duckett
Jos
Stokes
Ali
Curran (either)
Rashid/Dawson
Woody
Plunkett
Obviously based on form in last 12 months. If either opener struggled, I would promote Duckett and bring YJB in. With not picking Morgan, I would have butler and Stokes as captain and vice..
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You obviously have watched them a fair bit... You reckon they both could be in champions trophy squad?? Just think the likes of Jordan, Woakes, Finn just don't have enough variations in their bowling..
Neither looks fazed by pressure and Sam seems to becoming on leaps and bounds...
First thing to say, its really harsh to judge a player in their late teens or early 20s. I merely make the point that both could be international players in due course.
As to whether that is in time for the mid part of spring... I would say that is doubtful as far as Sam goes - much as he has a mature head on him, it would be a massive physical step up, and there are proportionately more players in front of him.
Tom must be closer to a bolter pick. England's 15 will be nine batting options, three or for of whom happen to keep, plus Rashid and five seamers (Ali amongst the batsmen, unless they go for one spinner).
That leaves five slots for seamers. Stokes could fill one instead of a batting slot, but probably won't.
So. Five slots, for the sake of argument. If everyone is fit, you would say Willey, Wood and Plunkett are nailed on. Woakes has to be pretty close in English conditions.
One, then, of Finn, Jordan and Ball? He could theoretically get past them. I suspect if he is going to, he will be taken to the West Indies.
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First thing to say, its really harsh to judge a player in their late teens or early 20s. I merely make the point that both could be international players in due course.
As to whether that is in time for the mid part of spring... I would say that is doubtful as far as Sam goes - much as he has a mature head on him, it would be a massive physical step up, and there are proportionately more players in front of him.
Tom must be closer to a bolter pick. England's 15 will be nine batting options, three or for of whom happen to keep, plus Rashid and five seamers (Ali amongst the batsmen, unless they go for one spinner).
That leaves five slots for seamers. Stokes could fill one instead of a batting slot, but probably won't.
So. Five slots, for the sake of argument. If everyone is fit, you would say Willey, Wood and Plunkett are nailed on. Woakes has to be pretty close in English conditions.
One, then, of Finn, Jordan and Ball? He could theoretically get past them. I suspect if he is going to, he will be taken to the West Indies.
All good points.. I tend to agree with the make-up of the side for next few one day series, however IMHO Woakes, Jordan, Finn, Plunkett and Willey don't have enough variation's in their death bowling..
Many games are won and lost on last 10 overs. That's another reason why I would take Morgan out of the equation. Not playing enough cricket and his choice of death bowlers is usually shocking..
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First thing to say, its really harsh to judge a player in their late teens or early 20s. I merely make the point that both could be international players in due course.
As to whether that is in time for the mid part of spring... I would say that is doubtful as far as Sam goes - much as he has a mature head on him, it would be a massive physical step up, and there are proportionately more players in front of him.
Tom must be closer to a bolter pick. England's 15 will be nine batting options, three or for of whom happen to keep, plus Rashid and five seamers (Ali amongst the batsmen, unless they go for one spinner).
That leaves five slots for seamers. Stokes could fill one instead of a batting slot, but probably won't.
So. Five slots, for the sake of argument. If everyone is fit, you would say Willey, Wood and Plunkett are nailed on. Woakes has to be pretty close in English conditions.
One, then, of Finn, Jordan and Ball? He could theoretically get past them. I suspect if he is going to, he will be taken to the West Indies.
ball came in and did really well in bangla so id play him keep the confidence up seems to be a better option up front and at the death than jordan and finn (im talking for both id say jordan was better at the death)
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Not sure why we took Anderson to India TBH. After we ripped them a new one with the green pitches in 2014, they where never going to produce pitches favouring the seam bowlers in this series. Anderson looks undercooked, or it could be too many miles on the clock. We should've sent him to Dubai and let him find his fitness and if needed recalled him for the fourth and fifth Tests
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I like Ball, big heart, tall and he's pretty quick. England will not want to lose Anderson and Broad at the same time (retirement/injury) i'm getting worried about both.
Youre right Jimmy won't be bowling much on flat decks anymore I don't think. We need to get as long as possible out of him and Broad.
think about taking out Anderson and Broad and we are not flushed with options. Ball yes, Woakes......
cant see what all the fuss is about the curran brothers but ive been wrong before :)
England have Plunkett as quick as anyone always does well when selected and a decent bat he should have been on this tour
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England have Plunkett as quick as anyone always does well when selected and a decent bat he should have been on this tour
I agree. Rumours are that he has upset someone within the "test " set up for whatever reason and therefore not considered. Strange because he has a brute of a short ball and if one thing the Indians don't play well,.it's the short ball.
Before anyone says it... Yes you can still bowl short and at the body on benign pitches... :)
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All good points.. I tend to agree with the make-up of the side for next few one day series, however IMHO Woakes, Jordan, Finn, Plunkett and Willey don't have enough variation's in their death bowling..
Many games are won and lost on last 10 overs. That's another reason why I would take Morgan out of the equation. Not playing enough cricket and his choice of death bowlers is usually shocking..
Though Plunkett and Willey are not really death bowlers, are they? Willey bowls with the new ball for the majority of his overs, and Plunkett bowls, generally, between 10-40 where he can use his ability to intimidate. Woakes and Finn are not death specialists, but Jordan does okay with his yorkers and slower balls, and Stokes has made something of an art of this in recent months. If fit, Wood nails it too on sheer pace. Plus, lets be fair, neither Curran is a death specialist either - Sam is, as of now, a slightly slower Willey and Tom is best used up front too.
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I agree. Rumours are that he has upset someone within the "test " set up for whatever reason and therefore not considered. Strange because he has a brute of a short ball and if one thing the Indians don't play well,.it's the short ball.
Before anyone says it... Yes you can still bowl short and at the body on benign pitches... :)
Even as a proud Yorkshireman, I would have struggled to argue for Liam Plunkett to make the test side.
What you say makes some sense - it is I suspect the argument that kept Finn in the reckoning - but a glance at Liam's first class stats in the last season and a half will quickly disabuse you of the notion that he was a contender - yes, he played through a quad injury last season which did not help, but less than 20 wickets at worse than 40.... there is a reason that he is not a nailed on first pick even for his (admittedly well stocked) county...
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Only my opinion but no point playing broad or Anderson give some others that have had a disappointing tour the chance to put that right
Cook
Jennings
Root
Duckett
YJB
Stokes
Butler
Ali
Rashid
Ball
Ansari
Be interesting to see how Billings does in BBL. I do believe he was close to a test call up
In this series so he is defiantly rated and in my opinion is as destructive as anyone else in our pool
Of players except Butler who is world class ODI player.
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Only my opinion but no point playing broad or Anderson give some others that have had a disappointing tour the chance to put that right
Cook
Jennings
Root
Duckett
YJB
Stokes
Butler
Ali
Rashid
Ball
Ansari
Be interesting to see how Billings does in BBL. I do believe he was close to a test call up
In this series so he is defiantly rated and in my opinion is as destructive as anyone else in our pool
Of players except Butler who is world class ODI player.
Hasn't Ansari already flown home? Press seem to be suggesting it'll be Dawson, Ali, Rashid, Stokes with 2 of Woakes, Ball and Broad in the bowling department.
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Would agree with not playing Broad and Anderson but rather than play the ones that have failed and disappointed get some new faces in players that haven't tasted defeat at this level renewed vigorous and all that
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But...bringing in from outside the squad without an obvious gap would make for a damaging long term statement...
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Would agree with not playing Broad and Anderson but rather than play the ones that have failed and disappointed get some new faces in players that haven't tasted defeat at this level renewed vigorous and all that
I 100% get the logic in that my only argument is that the players selected for this tour contained new test match players in Duckett, Hameed, Ball, Ansari and to a degree Batty with a 10year gap and Rashid being fairly new to test cricket. We can't and in my view drop or not play them. We have stuck by Cook, Anderson, Broad in the past and they same good and are now world class. I believe the team picked at the start should be the ones that play as they are good enough hence getting picked in the first place and give them a pat on the back and encouragement.
Also says a bit about the coaching etc if we have not worked with these players over the last 2/3 weeks and hopefully helped them a bit.
If Ansari has flown home that's rubbish in my opinion, I know he played for lions last week and I believe took wickets
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Far as I know Ansari def left the tour with a back injury...I thought he cam Home to the UK.
Not sure selection we have got it right this tour to be honest, it's a bit of a mess.
Soulman does have a point, you pick a side for the right reasons, it's goes a bit pear shaped and all of a sudden there are too. Many changes and the team is disrupted. We seem to have lost our nerve a bit.
Duckett has not been selected for the lions in the longer games, this I don't get. Either he is potentially a test batsman or not. yes his confidence might have gone a bit facing Ashwin but he gets better players than Duckett out.
I don't really believe he is un selectable, you don't get picked without having a bit of character in the first place.
He needs to get back on the horse sooner rather than later. I'd put my house on him just wanting a chance to put it right on the field.
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Dawson was picked to replace Ansari who was struggling with a back injury the press were told he was staying in India to receive treatment on it until flying home on December 8th.
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Got a feeling there is something more to the whole Duckett thing. To not be in the white ball squads either shows something has happened behind the scenes that the management don't like.
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But...bringing in from outside the squad without an obvious gap would make for a damaging long term statement...
Would it though no better way to motivate these that have disappointed than sending out a failures will not be tolerated message
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Far as I know Ansari def left the tour with a back injury...I thought he cam Home to the UK.
Not sure selection we have got it right this tour to be honest, it's a bit of a mess.
Soulman does have a point, you pick a side for the right reasons, it's goes a bit pear shaped and all of a sudden there are too. Many changes and the team is disrupted. We seem to have lost our nerve a bit.
Duckett has not been selected for the lions in the longer games, this I don't get. Either he is potentially a test batsman or not. yes his confidence might have gone a bit facing Ashwin but he gets better players than Duckett out.
I don't really believe he is un selectable, you don't get picked without having a bit of character in the first place.
He needs to get back on the horse sooner rather than later. I'd put my house on him just wanting a chance to put it right on the field.
Agree with all the points on Duckett but due to the pressure he would be under wouldn't play him again this series to face Ashwin
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Jennings and Cook out early, 21-2 from 13 isn't the best start!
Ishant got Jennings and no big surprise that Jadeja got Cook caught at slip
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India bats before tea??? :D
Go chicku
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Root and Ali have both given chances! Cook looked like he is ready for home
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Feel sorry for Cook to be fair. There is not s chance he wants to be here, must be so hard to get motivated for the game when your 3-4 week old child is back home!
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Can someone explain to me why if you pad it away you have to be careful it doesnt then come off your glove? Surely uts what ever it hits first?
Otherwise it can be can be same for 'leg byes' if after its flicked your pad you then glove it for 4?
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Can someone explain to me why if you pad it away you have to be careful it doesnt then come off your glove? Surely uts what ever it hits first?
Otherwise it can be can be same for 'leg byes' if after its flicked your pad you then glove it for 4?
For LBW it is first point of impact but as far as scoring and catches are concerned, any contact with bat or glove holding the bat is sufficient. No different from pad-bat catches which are common
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When watching first thing this morning I wasn't too keen on Moen batting at number 4. Hoping now he is in and on 40 odd he will prove me wrong...
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Jennings!
Scored a fine century looked good once in. Lovely find.
But
He was dropped on 0 - d his career start could have been 0,0,1 with an average of 0.3 recurring.
That would have been a painful start to a career(nic Maddison anyone)
Not saying he isn't good, fin player once in, but is he really that much better than duckett(who has had starts) duckett just struggles vs Ashwin.
Either way never of them are hameed. Straight back to the top when fit I reckon.
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Root's fuming but I'm sure I heard a noise in real time and the snicko just confirmed my suspicions. I think that's decision was fair enough
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For LBW it is first point of impact but as far as scoring and catches are concerned, any contact with bat or glove holding the bat is sufficient. No different from pad-bat catches which are common
What i thought but multiple times havs commentators said "watch is doesnt clip the gloves" as it bounces up off the pad.. I was mafe to assume there was some random law?
They looked at similar when (i think bairstow) padded away then nearly gloved it to patel?
Surely its not out on first impact?
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Root's conversion rate is a bit disappointing. Passed fifty 38 times yet only the 11 centuries
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Root's conversion rate is a bit disappointing. Passed fifty 38 times yet only the 11 centuries
i'll agree with that
if he wants to be in Kholi class he needs to make more daddy hundreds but getting 50 all the time and getting out is a problem I'd like to have (getting 10 all the time and getting out would do me tbh)
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Jennings!
Scored a fine century looked good once in. Lovely find.
But
He was dropped on 0 - d his career start could have been 0,0,1 with an average of 0.3 recurring.
That would have been a painful start to a career(nic Maddison anyone)
Not saying he isn't good, fin player once in, but is he really that much better than duckett(who has had starts) duckett just struggles vs Ashwin.
Either way never of them are hameed. Straight back to the top when fit I reckon.
Hammed is a real find, should of opened in Bangladesh to be honest, but better late than never, Looks like he will bat old-fashioned-style i.e hard to get out once in and can bat time. Quicker scoring rates in Test cricket these days I know but someone has to do this for the team-normally an opener.
Jennings good point, to me seems to of come from nowhere, was playing 2nd team cricket in 2015.
but it's early days
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Roots conversion rate is poor. He seemed to get over it earlier in summer but has dropped back to failing to convert.
But
Looked at roots stats in India. Only after atherton mentioned he has scored a fifty in every tests vs India.
He averages 60 plus in India alone.
Over the last 4 years(basically since roots debut) not many have got near that. Cook and prior over fifty, Clarke 47, smith 43.
Decent record against the worlds number 1 in there own back yard.
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Root's conversion rate is a bit disappointing. Passed fifty 38 times yet only the 11 centuries
its the same situation as before the tour, 50 to 100 is the area to work on.
Root has got 11 half centuries in 11 matches against India-that's some going
but to be the best it's hundreds(once you are in)
other side of the coin is we were 21-2 and after he got out about 170-3......so he gave the innings momentum.
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I think Root's concentration seems to slip once he passes 50. In the last two years he been out between 50-100 too many times.
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Very rarely do fifties win you test matches, it's becoming more than just unfortunate for Root sadly.
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I think Root's concentration seems to slip once he passes 50. In the last two years he been out between 50-100 too many times.
For me once he goes past 50 he goes into one day mode and nearly always gets out playing a one day shot...
That's where Kohli has gone to another level this series. He has put his ego in check and played mainly a test match innings. Would have been interesting to see if he would have put the hook/pull away if peppered with the short ball but England didn't try that for long spells...
If I am being honest Roots shot to.that ball off that bowler was just really poor but a mistake he does all to often...
HOWEVER I WOULD TAKE HIM SCORING 88 in every test but he will never become a great player because of it.
So would he being captain (like Kohli) make him concentrate more or does he have to stop playing too much one day cricket??
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Very rarely do fifties win you test matches, it's becoming more than just unfortunate for Root sadly.
he scores freely if you watch him bat, he is very rarely tied down by any bowler.
he is def better attacking, it's his natural game.
3 or 4 in the order not sure it makes much difference, Bayliss clearly wants him at 3.........I think myself he may do better(in the long run) at number 4
similar to KP
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I wonder if Root's dodgy back makes it harder for him the longer he bats
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Very rarely do fifties win you test matches, it's becoming more than just unfortunate for Root sadly.
Yep. Drop him, ballance back to 3..........
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Well, Bairstow isn't messing about
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Yep. Drop him, ballance back to 3..........
You carry on jerking that knee pal.
I don't think concentration is the issue, he's getting runs consistently and his conversion rate in first class cricket is good, he just plays silly shots too often. If I was Alastair Cook I'd be having a few words (and if anyone knows about playing the big innings that wins the game, it's Cook). Unless of course I was thinking about resigning the captaincy and didn't fancy pissing off the bloke who's likely to replace me...
@ppccopener I definitely agree that I'd prefer Root at 4.
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Looks like india are going to give every batsman a chance
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maybe giving him the captaincy will give him that extra responsibility and knuckle down a bit more?
it drives some on
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maybe giving him the captaincy will give him that extra responsibility and knuckle down a bit more?
it drives some on
England have to be careful what they do with the captaincy, we are an improving team despite this series.
as a fan I would like see Root get big hundreds for us, forget skippering for a while
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I think unless you get an unplayable ball when you get to 50 it's easier to go on and get 100 plus after all you are in you have done all the hard work and are seeing the ball big
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England have to be careful what they do with the captaincy, we are an improving team despite this series.
as a fan I would like see Root get big hundreds for us, forget skippering for a while
yeah its a sticky situation just thinking it might get him to knuckle down and think more as on talent he is up there with best in the world but doesn't make the big scores often enough
as I said its a good problem to have so its not doom and gloom
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I think Root myself is one of the best batsmen ive ever seen in an England shirt, as ive seen a lot of players :)
he needs big hundreds. His personal level is far above a lot of others that's why he is judged a bit different.
he's that good......
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The england team for this test has a fresher look about it players who have done okay and an opportunity for Dawson
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You carry on jerking that knee pal.
It's cbf!! It's what we do.
Anyone Ali to open or go 3 looks how good he is..........(sarcasm for anyone confused)
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Johnny falls into the trap
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That YJB dismissal just sums up the entire series for England IMO.
Such promise and then throw it all away softly.
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Excellent knock from Moeen
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Still want moeen axed @Felix Tito????
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Still want moeen axed @Felix Tito????
He's been dropped enroute to all 5 of his Test hundreds, so hardly a glowing endorsement. Not good enough for international cricket.
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He's been dropped enroute to all 5 of his Test hundreds, so hardly a glowing endorsement. Not good enough for international cricket.
Im sure plenty of batsman have been dropped
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Im sure plenty of batsman have been dropped
Difference is moeen is neither a batsman nor a bowler.
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I saw the cricket from 5am this morning just after Moeen came in and he looked like he'd struggle to get 10 let alone a ton
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Difference is moeen is neither a batsman nor a bowler.
True. He's a bloody hero.
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Difference is moeen is neither a batsman nor a bowler.
But is an international cricketer... Hardly see you scoring tons away against to the world best side
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But is an international cricketer... Hardly see you scoring tons away against to the world best side
Quota selection not a true international cricketer
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Difference is moeen is neither a batsman nor a bowler.
Quota selection not a true international cricketer
True, he only averages 47.5 with the bat this year and has scored 4 tons.
I wish our batsmen could do that, let alone our make up the number players..... ;)
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is 1000 runs in a calendar an achievement any more given how many test matches england play? nearly double compared to other nations
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All good points.. I tend to agree with the make-up of the side for next few one day series, however IMHO Woakes, Jordan, Finn, Plunkett and Willey don't have enough variation's in their death bowling..
Many games are won and lost on last 10 overs. That's another reason why I would take Morgan out of the equation. Not playing enough cricket and his choice of death bowlers is usually shocking..
Get big Fletch in if you want a death bowler!
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Moeen's stats are pretty irrelevant. Normally hides at number 7. In this series the only times he scored big runs was on the two flat roads in Rajkot and Madras.
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Moeen's stats are pretty irrelevant. Normally hides at number 7. In this series the only times he scored big runs was on the two flat roads in Rajkot and Madras.
(http://i.imgur.com/R472ngY.gif)
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England cant do without him Felix, and you must know that too :)
what position he bats, he been up and down like I dunno what, has still not been sorted.
he should be down at 7 or 8 IMHO to be most useful for us, plus his bowling
neither is front line batting or bowling but put together he's invaluable.
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Moeen's stats are pretty irrelevant. Normally hides at number 7. In this series the only times he scored big runs was on the two flat roads in Rajkot and Madras.
The 3rd player to score 1000 runs and get 30 wickets in a year... But he's irrelevant. Dumb people are dumb.
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You say not frontline but specialist number six/seven is a frontline role and he performs that very well - he just should not bat any higher in non-Asian conditions. He has five Test centuries now - thats more than Mark Ramprakash or Graeme Hick, both supposedly front line batsmen, even managed....give him a little bit of credit, eh?
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You say not frontline but specialist number six/seven is a frontline role and he performs that very well - he just should not bat any higher in non-Asian conditions. He has five Test centuries now - thats more than Mark Ramprakash or Graeme Hick, both supposedly front line batsmen, even managed....give him a little bit of credit, eh?
see your point, from memory both ramps and hick batted 3,4 6 and 7 for England
back in the day we played 7 specialists...because we didn't have any all rounders
and please no one say Chris Lewis and defreitas, Derek Pringle were genuine all rounders seniorplayer will burst a blood vessel :) :)
hahahahahahahhaha
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see your point, from memory both ramps and hick batted 3,4 6 and 7 for England
back in the day we played 7 specialists...because we didn't have any all rounders
and please no one say Chris Lewis and defreitas, Derek Pringle were genuine all rounders seniorplayer will burst a blood vessel :) :)
hahahahahahahhaha
maybe not them but gough and cork were surely genuine all rounders??
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You forget thwir batting average didnt exceed 20!
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You forget thwir batting average didnt exceed 20!
whats in averages
if you take a wicket or hit 1 50 your an all rounder in my book
one of the best test allrounders was Gillespie not many get double hundreds and 100 wickets
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In fairness, you could argue that Alec Stewart was a pretty class all rounder.
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whats in averages
if you take a wicket or hit 1 50 your an all rounder in my book
one of the best test allrounders was Gillespie not many get double hundreds and 100 wickets
So we play with an all rounder at the top of the innings in cook and at the bottom with anderson :D give me strength
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So we play with an all rounder at the top of the innings in cook and at the bottom with anderson :D give me strength
yep fine by me
cook should bowl more as looked threatening and please don't tell me you think the burnley lara is not a genuine top 6 being kept low by unrivalled talent above him?
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You're a proper all-rounder if your batting average is higher than your bowling average, so they say. Joe Root has the highest bowling average that is still lower than batting average in test history, so he's the worst all-rounder ever?
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The 3rd player to score 1000 runs and get 30 wickets in a year... But he's irrelevant. Dumb people are dumb.
30 wickets at 50. Sensational stuff ;)
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Darren Gough an all-rounder? do me a favour!
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30 wickets at 50. Sensational stuff ;)
Would rather him get wickets than not at all, if he wasnt taking wickets we would all be calling for him to be dropped as a bowler and considered soley as a batsman.
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Moeen's stats are pretty irrelevant. Normally hides at number 7. In this series the only times he scored big runs was on the two flat roads in Rajkot and Madras.
so, Younis Khan sucks, Moeen sucks, everyone sucks. Do you not get hugged enough in life?
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so, Younis Khan sucks, Moeen sucks, everyone sucks. Do you not get hugged enough in life?
Nah only Younus and Moeen suck.
Root's fine and dandy...as is YJB...
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Would rather him get wickets than not at all, if he wasnt taking wickets we would all be calling for him to be dropped as a bowler and considered soley as a batsman.
So taking wickets at 50 a pop is worthy of selection? Might as well recall Monty then...
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You're arguments are invalid because your facts are wrong.
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You're arguments are invalid because your facts are wrong.
I don't think Trolls really care about being correct, or even logical ;)
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Until a better option comes along Ali will suffice!
Plus Ali is not the primary spinner - that is what we are sadly lacking.
He is doing a decent job at 4 at the mo (excuse the pun)
Is he a decent enough no4 bat? Stats would have us believe that he is! But I am of the opinion that he is better down the order!
But I suspect that the number 4 argument will soon be redundant as the top 4 batting positions will be taken once Hameed is fit again!
So with Cook, Hameed, Jennings and Root in top 4 (Jennings good enough? Too early to tell but I suspect the ton earned him the right to bat at 3 for a decent trial period)
I also suspect that the middle order (5-7) will be Ali, Stokes and Bairstow. Like others I would honestly prefer to see Bairstow, Stoke, Ali order of batting but think they will keep Bairstow at 7!
The rest of the order will be a variety of bowlers and just hope we can fit Buttler in there somewhere.
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You say not frontline but specialist number six/seven is a frontline role and he performs that very well - he just should not bat any higher in non-Asian conditions. He has five Test centuries now - thats more than Mark Ramprakash or Graeme Hick, both supposedly front line batsmen, even managed....give him a little bit of credit, eh?
I think this post is on the right track apart from the openers where you bat should be dictated according to the country you are in for example would you select moeen to bat at four in Aus .
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Mo batting at 4 will no longer be an issue. The issue will now be whether he moves to 5 or 7!
The general concensus seems to be be that he will move to 5!
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maybe not them but gough and cork were surely genuine all rounders??
like many others
Both Gough & cork scored runs at the start Of there test careers Then there batting went downhill.
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Mo batting at 4 will no longer be an issue. The issue will now be whether he moves to 5 or 7!
The general concensus seems to be be that he will move to 5!
It could well be Bairstow at 5 remembering what happened when Moeen opened wouldn't want to see mo facing the quicks to early
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Anything below 4 won't be needed!
Cook'll be back to his prolific best, The Hamsta will score a stack of runs, Jennings will be our dependible Saffer (Just don't try and bounce him out otherwise he'll have to go him with a technical floor stress related illness and Root will then smash the trash. We'll post 500-2, declare and have it wrapped up by day 3!
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It could well be Bairstow at 5 remembering what happened when Moeen opened wouldn't want to see mo facing the quicks to early
Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Ali
Stokes
Woakes
Ball
Broad
Anderson
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You're arguments are invalid because your facts are wrong.
I did Moeen's pies a disservice. 36 wickets at 49.22. Batsmen must be quaking in their boots...
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Felix take Mo Ali out of the England side
who are you replacing him with?
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Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Ali
Stokes
Woakes
Ball
Broad
Anderson
Stokes like to play at 6 and will insist on batting there!
Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Woakes/buttler
Ball
Broad
Anderson
If it we need Broad and Anderson bowling in unison.
Then would be nice to be able to play Buttler and therefore decide between Ball and Woakes as 4th seamer!
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Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Ali
Stokes
Woakes
Ball
Broad
Anderson
Would put Stokes in after Jhonny also you only need four seamers in the UK so would have Buttler in for Woakes and batting after stokes which puts Ali Batting in The UK at eight
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Felix take Mo Ali out of the England side
who are you replacing him with?
Cook
Hameed(when fit)
Jennings
Root (c)
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler (w/k)
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
Leach
And when Wood's fit he replaces Woakes
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that's wiped out a lot of lower order runs we have needed for the last 2-3 years. You must think we are that good we don't need them.
I don't
:)
p.s well done squeezing the Somerset spinner in!!
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that's wiped out a lot of lower order runs we have needed for the last 2-3 years. You must think we are that good we don't need them.
I don't
:)
p.s well done squeezing the Somerset spinner in!!
And a Somerset keeper as well :D
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does cook play if he's not captain? surely when he retires it'll be from all international cricket
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does cook play if he's not captain? surely when he retires it'll be from all international cricket
He's only 31 years old. He can't retire
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does cook play if he's not captain? surely when he retires it'll be from all international cricket
I think he's said he's quite looking forward to playing just as a batter.
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100 per cent sure he will play as a batter same as his mentor Gooch well into his thirties form permitting.
i'm not convinced we will have change of captain myself. And I hope we don't.
appreciate im in a minority of ONE on this forum but I do not believe Cook has been treated particularly well and his relationships with the top people are not as good as they may appear.
Like I said, I don't expect anyone to agree, but that's my view
new forum phase, I love it
IMHO :) :)
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And when Wood's fit he replaces Woakes
You can only troll if you do it well...so stop before you embarrass yourself
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I think the management and Cook need to sit down and decide to do whatever keeps Cook playing the longest whether that be carrying on as captain or stepping down, they have to do whatever is needed to keep him opening for the next 3 years at least. I think we underestimate what he's done for us as an opener, skipper and just as a player of that much experience to have around the dressing room, he will be sorely sorely missed when he retires, more than we can realise at the moment I think.
Imo :)
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Tough to second guess the selectors here. Assuming Jennings doesn't get 0/1 again in the second dig (in which case, he needs some county runs because that ton will start to look like the quickest outlier in the history of the game) I reckon we have nine nailed on (in the correct order):
Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
X
X
Broad
Anderson
One X will be a seamer - you sense Wood would be the man if he managed a run of fitness but in the likely absence thereof that Woakes' skills in English conditions gives him domain.
The second is where England can take a punt. They could go extra batsman - Buttler - technically superior keeper who bats - Foakes - or more threatening spinner - Rashid. Technically a fifth seamer is also an option but I am struggling to remember a time when the fifth seamer won anyone a game of cricket...
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I think the management and Cook need to sit down and decide to do whatever keeps Cook playing the longest whether that be carrying on as captain or stepping down, they have to do whatever is needed to keep him opening for the next 3 years at least. I think we underestimate what he's done for us as an opener, skipper and just as a player of that much experience to have around the dressing room, he will be sorely sorely missed when he retires, more than we can realise at the moment I think.
Imo :)
exactly.. Cook is not a natural captain, he has had to work at it. He's captained more than Atherton now and Vaughan(I think)
whether anyone thinks Cook is a good captain or bad he wants to leave the captaincy in good hands and the team settled after a lot a good players have retired or left the team.
If the ECB did not think the same why did Cook not miss the 1st test and let Root captain so he could spend a week with a new born child? instead Cook left straight after the birth.
that's what im talking about.
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I'd pay to see Mark Wood rearrange your face, now that's a promise
Rarely come on the forum anymore as it got a little petty over the last couple of years at times. I was in it mainly for the kit and talk of bats and the viewing of the shaq harris kitchen fire was a bonus
However, and I would be very surprised if this hasnt already been mentioned or at least thought, I am convinced this Felix character is old Gerry SA isnt it?? Some might not remember him but a few will
This outburst of aggression reminded me of his old demeanor when he was upset with life
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Rarely come on the forum anymore as it got a little petty over the last couple of years at times. I was in it mainly for the kit and talk of bats and the viewing of the shaq harris kitchen fire was a bonus
However, and I would be very surprised if this hasnt already been mentioned or at least thought, I am convinced this Felix character is old Gerry SA isnt it?? Some might not remember him but a few will
This outburst of aggression reminded me of his old demeanor when he was upset with life
It's obvious and been said many many times. Admin do squat though. And others get blamed for the forums demise.
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Admins have a tracking tool which allows us to see who is posting under what name.
Am quietly confident that Felix isn't Gerry. Not least because he picks Anderson in his team...
To say admin do "squat" is a little disingenuous.
You have no idea what goes on behind the scenes.
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Ah sorry, thought it must not just have been me that could see it.
Back to topic - good day for England, need to make sure they push on well past 400 tomorrow. Buttler and Stokes batting together freely would make great tv!
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Rarely come on the forum anymore as it got a little petty over the last couple of years at times. I was in it mainly for the kit and talk of bats and the viewing of the shaq harris kitchen fire was a bonus
However, and I would be very surprised if this hasnt already been mentioned or at least thought, I am convinced this Felix character is old Gerry SA isnt it?? Some might not remember him but a few will
This outburst of aggression reminded me of his old demeanor when he was upset with life
Shame i didn't see this first really... Too scared to do it himself so has to get someone to do the dirty work, quite womanly if you ask me.
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Admins have a tracking tool which allows us to see who is posting under what name.
Am quietly confident that Felix isn't Gerry. Not least because he picks Anderson in his team...
To say admin do "squat" is a little disingenuous.
You have no idea what goes on behind the scenes.
I run two forums, I know exactly what goes on and know all about ip tracking etc. Easily worked around, a primary school kid could do it.
It's funny the crap said on this forum and all is ignored. But boom your there in a second if an admin is questioned.
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You can only troll if you do it well...so stop before you embarrass yourself
Agree, Mark Wood being fit to play is a clearly ridiculous idea ;)
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Agree, Mark Wood being fit to play is a clearly ridiculous idea ;)
as you said its all the rave to have a batting average better than your bowling average... Woakes has exactly that in First Class matches.
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as you said its all the rave to have a batting average better than your bowling average... Woakes has exactly that in First Class matches.
Also in tests!
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Also in tests!
statistically, their data forms part of first-class cricket. First Class cricket being defined as if: it is of three or more days scheduled duration.
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Tough to second guess the selectors here. Assuming Jennings doesn't get 0/1 again in the second dig (in which case, he needs some county runs because that ton will start to look like the quickest outlier in the history of the game) I reckon we have nine nailed on (in the correct order):
Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
X
X
Broad
Anderson
One X will be a seamer - you sense Wood would be the man if he managed a run of fitness but in the likely absence thereof that Woakes' skills in English conditions gives him domain.
The second is where England can take a punt. They could go extra batsman - Buttler - technically superior keeper who bats - Foakes - or more threatening spinner - Rashid. Technically a fifth seamer is also an option but I am struggling to remember a time when the fifth seamer won anyone a game of cricket...
You'll need 4 seamers in Australia next winter, probably Finn. England need runs as much, we just aren't scoring enough. You need to work on a quality middle order option. To be honest, had Jennings not been dropped early in his ton, he wouldn't be in the above list. He also looks a bit dodgy against the short ball. Not great when you have SA and Australia next up.
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100 per cent sure he will play as a batter same as his mentor Gooch well into his thirties form permitting.
i'm not convinced we will have change of captain myself. And I hope we don't.
appreciate im in a minority of ONE on this forum but I do not believe Cook has been treated particularly well and his relationships with the top people are not as good as they may appear.
Like I said, I don't expect anyone to agree, but that's my view
new forum phase, I love it
IMHO :) :)
The selectors won't want a new captain to tour Aus they will want cook but if cook does resign the selectors will want it to be before the Start of the 2017 UK series so that the new captain can find his feet in the UK
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You'll need 4 seamers in Australia next winter, probably Finn. England need runs as much, we just aren't scoring enough. You need to work on a quality middle order option. To be honest, had Jennings not been dropped early in his ton, he wouldn't be in the above list. He also looks a bit dodgy against the short ball. Not great when you have SA and Australia next up.
My set up allowed four - Jimmy, broad, Stokes and in England Woakes.
Agreed, Woakes is not ideal for Aussie conditions. We need either a Tremlett style trampoline (which would require the quicker Overton to get fit and soon) or a Bresnan like heavy ball bowler...which would be Ball.
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I run two forums, I know exactly what goes on and know all about ip tracking etc. Easily worked around, a primary school kid could do it.
It's funny the crap said on this forum and all is ignored. But boom your there in a second if an admin is questioned.
kinda have to agree with @smilley792 here.. some of the posters here are nothing but hate and anger.
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All the decent work from yesterday disappeared within the first hour. Stokes and Buttler didn't last long. Moeen was eventually bounced out for 146. 400 might not be enough on this pitch
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Oh no, Benji and Butler are back in the dug out. :(
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I've been flicking between eng ind & aus pak since around half three. Disappointing that stokes was out in the first over! Ali was looking sketchy from the start! Fair play to India for coming out this morning with a new plan that has England in trouble!
Dawson has dug in from a rocky start, hope that him and Rashid can form a decent partnership
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Good partnership from rash and Dawson, Dawson can clearly bat. Our lower and middle order is crowded already
We need to find out if he really bowl at this level thou :)
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Really poor wicket - flat and slow.
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Oh Stuart.
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If broad was an animal he would be a giraffe.
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Rarely come on the forum anymore as it got a little petty over the last couple of years at times. I was in it mainly for the kit and talk of bats and the viewing of the shaq harris kitchen fire was a bonus
However, and I would be very surprised if this hasnt already been mentioned or at least thought, I am convinced this Felix character is old Gerry SA isnt it?? Some might not remember him but a few will
This outburst of aggression reminded me of his old demeanor when he was upset with life
Only just read this but do agree that's there's been an increase in the pettiness and needless aggression when the personal insults come out its usually an indication that the poster as nowhere else to go with there points of view.
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Only just read this but do agree that's there's been an increase in the pettiness and needless aggression when the personal insults come out its usually an indication that the poster as nowhere else to go with there points of view.
Oh what do you know you big smelly poo-poo face?
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Good first over from dawson
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So 477 will play 600+...much rather the ball turn square on day 1. Makes for much better viewing
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Good partnership from rash and Dawson, Dawson can clearly bat. Our lower and middle order is crowded already
We need to find out if he really bowl at this level thou :)
Anyone else notice Dawson was back using kookaburra inter the test, in the few pictures of him from the BPL he was using Icon
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Maybe they dont have international status
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So 477 will play 600+...much rather the ball turn square on day 1. Makes for much better viewing
477 I think is about right on that track batting first yes India could get 600 plus the openers look as if they are in but if they do score 600 plus how much time will be left for the to bowl out England a second time on a dead pitch ? Can't see kohil declaring with less and giving England a sniff but at 3-0 up why should he also might not fancy batting last
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Thought the tactics with the new ball where slightly odd. 3 men on the fence gifting easy singles to KL Rahul who's form has been pretty awful so far and to the makeshift opener Patel. Thought Cook should've been more aggressive as it seems harder to score of the seam bowlers.
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Thought the tactics with the new ball where slightly odd. 3 men on the fence gifting easy singles to KL Rahul who's form has been pretty awful so far and to the makeshift opener Patel. Thought Cook should've been more aggressive as it seems harder to score of the seam bowlers.
Without a doubt 477 on the board bowling the last overs of the day why didn't cook attack the batsman ?
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Without a doubt 477 on the board bowling the last overs of the day why didn't cook attack the batsman ?
Exactly. The Indian commentators go on about Rahul like he's Kohli Mark 2, yet his temperament has been found wanting so far in this series. A packed off side field and an off stump channel would've seen if he has the temperament
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Exactly. The Indian commentators go on about Rahul like he's Kohli Mark 2, yet his temperament has been found wanting so far in this series. A packed off side field and an off stump channel would've seen if he has the temperament
He is talented and deserves it. Has got 3 hundreds (could be4) and one 50 so far in 11 tests. Not many have got a start like him.
If Hameed can get that kind of attention then Rahul definitely deserves it.
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Cook is so defensive. You have 477 on board, spinners are bowling and only 1 guy in catching position. Attack dude.... you got nothing to lose.
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Cook is so defensive. You have 477 on board, spinners are bowling and only 1 guy in catching position. Attack dude.... you got nothing to lose.
Sadly, no "crazy aggressive" captain left in the world. McCallum was the last. Miss the days of captains really hunting for wickers instead of trying to block runs.
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Exactly. The Indian commentators go on about Rahul like he's Kohli Mark 2, yet his temperament has been found wanting so far in this series. A packed off side field and an off stump channel would've seen if he has the temperament
Done ok today
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How nice does that Karuns bat look!
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Rashid going at 4.65rpo...not bad for a limited over game
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It's taken 80 overs for root to get his first bowl, really is poor from cook
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It's taken 80 overs for root to get his first bowl, really is poor from cook
Cook captaincy always lacked imgination but in this match it seems jaded think Alister is in need of a rest.
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Ho Alister that was catchable Unlucky ball
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Cook captaincy always lacked imgination but in this match it seems jaded think Alister is in need of a rest.
He has six months off in a couple of days...
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Now England are getting sloppy returning the new ball to the bowler bounceing it off the ground
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It's been a very good knock from KL Rahul, though it's a very flat pitch...chance to rack up a big double 100. The 3 wickets that have fallen have been mistakes from the batsmen.
Don't see the possibility of a result for either team. Don't see England collapsing on day 5
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Crap ball wicket, crap ball wicket.
Feel sorry for him though. Could have heard a pin drop then!
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Those nervous 199s. Another wicket thrown away. Good knock on a very flat pitch
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Reminds me of being at Lords when Bell holed out to mid on off Paul Harris whilst on 199. Couldn't believe it.
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Just like to point out I didn't say KL Rahul couldn't bat, I said this temperament was lacking thus far in this series. But his temperament seemed fine and dandy until he reached 199...favorable conditions but a superb innings. Anyone's who's capable of scoring runs in all conditions is a pretty valuable player.
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I was thinking IF this test ends in a draw (which is looking likely) and therefore the series 3-0, would I have taken that at the start before a ball had been bowled?
And being honest I would of done all things considered. Yes it would have been nice to be a bit more competitive etc... but when you think that NZ came here and got done 3-0 in 3 tests, SA were 3-0 in 4 (with only 1 days play in the drawn game) and the Aussies got thumped 4-0 in 4 tests.
Have we actually done that badly?
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I'm an England fan but I don't believe the results are even comparable.
NZ and SA atleast had some very high turning bunsens to play on(didn't see any off the aus test so can't comment)
Kohli himself said in an interview this week, he and his team were disappointed they got no praise for those victories, everything merely heaped on the pitches, so they wanted longer lasting tracks with different characteristics to show it's down to them not the pitches.
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When the England get back home the analysists will look at where were it went wrong they will look at the dropped catches at times the negative Captainacy and importantly the balance of the team they played each match the decision to take certain players who did little or nothing and I think they will decide they could have done better
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If kholi and his team want some praise and credit start winning away.
England have tried but we were never going to win this-a draw a lot us us would bite your hand off
India are a good side now, they were embarrasing last time they toured here
But real credit starts in away series wins-same as us.
As for us...i think we got a few questions still
Dawson looks like he can bat do we need another allrounder whose batting is stronger?
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I'm an England fan but I don't believe the results are even comparable.
NZ and SA atleast had some very high turning bunsens to play on(didn't see any off the aus test so can't comment)
Kohli himself said in an interview this week, he and his team were disappointed they got no praise for those victories, everything merely heaped on the pitches, so they wanted longer lasting tracks with different characteristics to show it's down to them not the pitches.
Totally agree. Pitches were completely different to the pitches in this series.
England have been luckily that they've prepared batting friendly wickets and given they've won 4 out of 5 tosses they've had the best of conditions.
You can mention the number of dropped chances but India have probably dropped more chances. Catching and keeping on the whole has been pretty poor. Cook looks like he'll happily take a draw this test match given the fields he's set
Credit to india, they've played well..even their seam bowlers have out bowled england's
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Having grown up in an era of bits and pieces cricketers - David Capel, Mark Ealham, Ronnie Irani, Robert Croft, Dermot Reeve, Adam Hollioake - its remarkable that we complain too much about having a range of all round options to balance our side.
Okay, fessing up, Ben Stokes is the only one good enough to be selected as either a bowler or batsman if he were unable to do the other. But if you go by the alternate line of being good enough to take a fifth of the overs and bat seven comfortably, we have Ali, Woakes and Rashid in the side plus Ansari, Dawson, Patel and Borthwick at or around the squad and capable back up from Bresnan and the Curran lads.
The problem for someone like Dawson is...when will he get another game?
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Totally agree. Pitches were completely different to the pitches in this series.
England have been luckily that they've prepared batting friendly wickets and given they've won 4 out of 5 tosses they've had the best of conditions.
You can mention the number of dropped chances but India have probably dropped more chances. Catching and keeping on the whole has been pretty poor. Cook looks like he'll happily take a draw this test match given the fields he's set
Credit to india, they've played well..even their seam bowlers have out bowled england's
India have batted better and most of their spinners have put great pressure on Englands batsmen and have taken some wickets through their excellent bowling. Granted that some of the English batting has been under par and they have often given their wicket away! But the spinners have created quite a few chances through their patience and consistent quality....something that the English spinners have only managed to do for a few overs at a time!!
England simply haven't looked up for the challenge on this tour and have often looked ragged and tired and lacking in confidence and determination! Sad and a little disappointing but hopefully England will learn from it and bounce back!
I think on occasions the Indian seamers look to have outbowled Englands seamers - but it is easier to bowl at batsmen who are a little low in confidence than it is to bowl to batsmen who are full of confidence!!
Would I take the Indian batsmen over the English? Some yes, some no! Would I take the Indian spinners over the English spinners? Absolutely yes! Would I take the Indian seamers over the English seamers? Errmmm, absolutely not!!
But India deserve their win fully :)
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Although true certain England players looked out of there depth
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Interesting to put together a composite side.
In English conditions:
Cook
Vijay
Root
Pujara
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Ashwin
Woakes (or Yadav?)
Broad
Anderson
In India:
Cook
Vijay
Pujara
Kohli
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Ashwin
Jadeja
J Yadav/Rashid
U Yadav
Six in both sides. Kohli will surely make both once he re tifies his previous issues in England. At best four away players in either.
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Would argue shami's been the best seamer from both sides. Been unlucky with a few drops too. 10 wickets @25's isn't bad
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Would argue shami's been the best seamer from both sides. Been unlucky with a few drops too. 10 wickets @25's isn't bad
He has bowled okay, yes. But... To skiddy to be successful in English conditions, in Indian, he is good, but would you really take him ahead of Stokes, who brings so much with bat and in the field, or Yadav, who has a great mix of skiddy and bouncy. I think not.
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Surprising that India have waited till after lunch to put their foot down. Thought they would have attacked a lot more in the first session to push for a result
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Why hurry? They will back themselves to do England in a day if necessary. All England have to play for is the calendar year runs record - the other nine can be backed to fold.
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Looking at bowling
Not seen much of Dawson but he looks like he puts more on it than ansari
Was ansari just below par for him or is dawson better?
Looking at run rates Dawson going at below 3 rpo Ali and rashid over 4
If you can't bowl a side out as a spinner you need to hold an end like the king of Spain used to do, could Dawson do that holding role
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Karun Nair has gone past 150 now. India can push towards 650 or so before declaration and then try to bowl England out. However India is clearly missing the third spinner. Amit Mishra is certainly not performing up to the standards set by Jayant Yadav. Given the pitch and mediocre third spinner, i don't see this match as anything other than a draw.
Side note - after a long time i see an Indian player sponsored by Gray Nicolls ... :D ... Extremely happy !!!
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Pretty sure an umpire just said "not out" but then reviewed it himself............ random.
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Karun Nair has gone past 150 now. India can push towards 650 or so before declaration and then try to bowl England out. However India is clearly missing the third spinner. Amit Mishra is certainly not performing up to the standards set by Jayant Yadav. Given the pitch and mediocre third spinner, i don't see this match as anything other than a draw.
Side note - after a long time i see an Indian player sponsored by Gray Nicolls ... :D ... Extremely happy !!!
Mishra (and Rashid infact) don't bowl the googly nearly enough for my liking. just leggy after leggy after leggy, not setting the batsman up for anything!
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Jennings, genuine allrounder.........
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Jennings, genuine allrounder.........
If it wasn't for a dropped catch I think he can count himself lucky to be still in the team....
He does look good with the ball though
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If it wasn't for a dropped catch I think he can count himself lucky to be still in the team....
He does look good with the ball though
I put that earlier. A 0,0,1 start would have been on Apr with nic Maddison's career. Not a nice place to be.
He looks okay once in, hope Maddison gets the chance to get in to and show what he's got.
As for his bowling, he reminds me of trott, just runs up and wobbles it mid 70s. Ashwin a few times hasn't looked like he's comfortable with it.
I'm sure kohli etc would just slap him about though.
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Does he hold his spot when Hameed is back though?
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Does he hold his spot when Hameed is back though?
Bats 3 for me with Cook and Hameed 1 and 2, Root back to 4.
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Does he hold his spot when Hameed is back though?
Opening. No!!
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Does he hold his spot when Hameed is back though?
I think he does with Ali going down the order and Hameed back to open and jennings in at 3.
Get rid of Butler. Doubt he will do well in English conditions at number 6
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200 up for Nair...good knock. Then again it's a flat pitch. Kohli and pujara must be kicking themselves
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I think he does with Ali going down the order and Hameed back to open and jennings in at 3.
Get rid of Butler. Doubt he will do well in English conditions at number 6
Buttler won't bat 6. Stokes insists on that spot.
But even in English conditions. There may be a spot for buttler at 8(bats will go mad)
Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Ball
Broad
Anderson.
Leaves number 8 to be filled by 2nd spinner/5th seamer/ no8 specialist batsmen.
Rashid/woakes/buttler.
Personally don't see Rashid or woakes getting the ball much as a 6th bowlers. So why not bittler
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200 up for Nair...good knock. Then again it's a flat pitch. Kohli and pujara must be kicking themselves
Kohli, pujara, root, bairstow....... pretty much any batsman. But I'd still say Rahul is kicking himself the most!
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Kohli, pujara, root, bairstow....... pretty much any batsman. But I'd still say Rahul is kicking himself the most!
Think Boycott has his pads on somewhere waiting to bat on here
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Think Boycott has his pads on somewhere waiting to bat on here
Boycott's nan too with her stick of rhubarb
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Think cook's lost the plot taking the new ball with 2 batsmen looking for quick runs. Yet last match he waited 134 overs to take it
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and now we have a backstop...The wheels have fallen off!
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Root looks to be getting frustrated at cooks captaincy here!!
Reckon he wants the job sooner rather than later.
But seriously has an international side ever had a backstop before?
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Buttler won't bat 6. Stokes insists on that spot.
But even in English conditions. There may be a spot for buttler at 8(bats will go mad)
Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Ball
Broad
Anderson.
Leaves number 8 to be filled by 2nd spinner/5th seamer/ no8 specialist batsmen.
Rashid/woakes/buttler.
Personally don't see Rashid or woakes getting the ball much as a 6th bowlers. So why not bittler
In the uk and Aus play the extra batsman unless it's going to spin as four seamers is enough more than four will lead to them being under bowled.
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well what a catch from buttler!! Blinder
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Are India bothered about a win here or are they gonna let nair get a triple ton??
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India VC Rahane gonna struggle to get his place back
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India really are wasting time here, declare and get bowling. Kohli showing his defensive captaincy again. Didn't even tell his batsmen to get a move on in the first session
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So 477 will play 600+...much rather the ball turn square on day 1. Makes for much better viewing
You meant 700+ yeah?
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Buttler won't bat 6. Stokes insists on that spot.
But even in English conditions. There may be a spot for buttler at 8(bats will go mad)
Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Ball
Broad
Anderson.
Leaves number 8 to be filled by 2nd spinner/5th seamer/ no8 specialist batsmen.
Rashid/woakes/buttler.
Personally don't see Rashid or woakes getting the ball much as a 6th bowlers. So why not bittler
Woakes is the long term replacement for Anderson so he'll be in that team over Ball certainly.
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You meant 700+ yeah?
Nearly got it right, didn't factor in a defensive kohli. Don't really see any chance of a result, why not carry on batting. 1000+ might be a target
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I know India will probably go on to win so you can say "It's a result pitch" but if this is an advertisement for test match cricket, then no wonder viewing figures are dropping.
350 vs 350 in 1st innings makes for a much better game any day of the week.
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Root looks to be getting frustrated at cooks captaincy here!!
Reckon he wants the job sooner rather than later.
But seriously has an international side ever had a backstop before?
Sure. When baseball was in the Olympics.
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Woakes is the long term replacement for Anderson so he'll be in that team over Ball certainly.
Not if he bowls like he did on this tour also think a lot depends on the fittness of mark wood.
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Woakes is the long term replacement for Anderson so he'll be in that team over Ball certainly.
In India ball has to me been a better bowler than woakes.
In agreeing with seniorplayer, woakes has looked to be defensive, but ended up being expensive, ball looks to have more zip out here and more about him, good pace, decent bouncers.
Surely that to me would lead to him being more dangerous on a green top(we all know selectees will got our method though)
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Nearly got it right, didn't factor in a defensive kohli. Don't really see any chance of a result, why not carry on batting. 1000+ might be a target
Kohil probably thinks he only needs day five to bowl England out
Cooks helped india speed up the scoring by taking the new ball.
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I know India will probably go on to win so you can say "It's a result pitch" but if this is an advertisement for test match cricket, then no wonder viewing figures are dropping.
350 vs 350 in 1st innings makes for a much better game any day of the week.
Seems as if india can't win with the pitches they prepare, If it turns on day one it becomes an issue and if it's flat it also becomes an issue.
I'd much rather see a bunsen burner from day 1
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Declaration will come when 10-15 overs remain. Well played Nair.
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In India ball has to me been a better bowler than woakes.
In agreeing with seniorplayer, woakes has looked to be defensive, but ended up being expensive, ball looks to have more zip out here and more about him, good pace, decent bouncers.
Surely that to me would lead to him being more dangerous on a green top(we all know selectees will got our method though)
I can see Roland-Jones being a better option that Ball simply because he offers more with the bat. However once (and if) Wood is fit he should walk straight into the team
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Why should a bowler be considered if he's better with the bat? Pick the bowlers that are most likely to win you a match with the ball
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I agree with felix! First time ever.
Pick the better bowler, we may have 8 batsmen 7 atleast, who cares what they can do with bat. We need wickets.
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3rd chance for Nair, how many more do they want to give him.
The new ball is turning and bouncing, I'm sure ashwin will open the bowling when the finally declare
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Seems as if india can't win with the pitches they prepare, If it turns on day one it becomes an issue and if it's flat it also becomes an issue.
I'd much rather see a bunsen burner from day 1
It's probably just a personal thing, I just don't really enjoy cricket in the sub-continent generally.
I love watching cricket in New Zealand, the pitches there just seem to have a bit of everything!
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It's probably just a personal thing, I just don't really enjoy cricket in the sub-continent generally.
I love watching cricket in New Zealand, the pitches there just seem to have a bit of everything!
Interesting point i the pitches in New Zealand are sImular to the Uk but it depends if you are on the north or south island.
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I've never seen an Indian batsman sweep as much as Nair, and he's pretty decent with it
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Nair wants a 300 here... Rashid going at 4.7RPO and ali at 4.5's. Extremely poor!
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Incredible to think with all the star studded batsmen India have produced that this is only the 7th individual score of 250+. Tendulkar nor Gavaskar got passed 250
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Nair wants a 300 here... Rashid going at 4.7RPO and ali at 4.5's. Extremely poor!
Rashid has bowled in spin friendly conditions and averages 40 with the ball. He simply isn't good enough for test cricket.
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Rashid as bowled in spin friendly conditions and averages 40 with the ball. He simply isn't good enough for test cricket.
Since Saqlain left he's gone back to the pie merchant bowling style again
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3rd chance for Nair, how many more do they want to give him.
The new ball is turning and bouncing, I'm sure ashwin will open the bowling when the finally declare
He has had several chances now - drops, missed stumping, edges flying into spaces, etc! It is his day and these kind of batting days don't come along often!
So let him get his triple as he may never have the chance again!
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He has had several chances now - drops, missed stumping, edges flying into spaces, etc! It is his day and these kind of batting days don't come along often!
So let him get his triple as he may never have the chance again!
I suspect he'll be dropped for the next text when Rahane and Rohit are fit anyway. So might as well make the most of it.
Highest ever team total for india, 952 is the record right?
Did someone say 477 was par? clearly not!
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Expect declaration once he reaches 300!
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I suspect he'll be dropped for the next text when Rahane and Rohit are fit anyway. So might as well make the most of it.
Highest ever team total for india, 952 is the record right?
Did someone say 477 was par? clearly not!
TBH India play Australia next and they can't play spin at all. India can probably get away with playing only 4 bowlers
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759/7d england have been embarassed.
303* is still quite the effort. Well batted!
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We are so inept
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Rashid finishes up 29.4 overs conceding 153 runs - 5.15rpo. Even for a leggy that is extremely poor! Rashid will probably be disappointed he didn't get some freebie wickets by bowling at the tail.
Luckily Dawson was there to keep it a bit tight
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Nair wants a 300 here... Rashid going at 4.7RPO and ali at 4.5's. Extremely poor!
Rashid 5.16rpo
Karun striking at 79.53 and Jadeja going at 92.73
Poor bowling, poor captaining. If Cook captains after this series I'll be very surprised. He looked smoked
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This is a real test for the England openers fittness both mental and physical 2 1/2 days in the field and now have to bat around 15 mins till close of play.
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Pants well and truly down.
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Should have started with spinners. Get an extra over so and let the ball rip.
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Also with this lead and 4 overs left why hasn't Kolhi get more of his players around the bat
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Should have started with spinners. Get an extra over so and let the ball rip.
According to the commentary the only threatening ball that beat Cook was bowled by Sharma!
Sharma to Cook, no run, beaten by a beauty. It's fullish in length, angled in at the left-hander, drawing him into pushing at the ball, which seams away to the wicketkeeper
Maybe Kholi shou;d have put Ashwin on at one end and continued to play Sharma for a couple more overs??
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India will probably get 100overs in tomorrow with bowling machine Jadeja bowling his overs inside 120secs. So they'll probably have a second new ball for the final 15 overs. Shouldn't make any difference though the pitch is dead
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It's probably just a personal thing, I just don't really enjoy cricket in the sub-continent generally.
I love watching cricket in New Zealand, the pitches there just seem to have a bit of everything!
Its fun to watch then they are rank turners...but the moment India produces such pitches everyone start crying of unfair advantage. Imo, India (and other sub-continent teams) should prepare more rank turners where you get results and the batsmen are challenged more. I liked the pitches India had prepared for NZ..not so much the pitches prepared for England.
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Let's not forget they did have a cyclone there literally days before the test and they were doing the absolute best to allow the it to go on! Don't think we should really be slagging it off too much. I'm not even going to comment on the actions taken by bowlers and Cook, as I'm unsure what the intentions were. However, it did look as if they were both reading the wrong page!
We were beaten in all departments, including mental fitness. Cook will captain the next series, if he didn't and we then got whitewashed by the aussies we will blame him for leaving us in this state. Either way he can't really win, unless of course we go down under and slap them silly.
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Can't see Cook captaining again. His heart doesn't seem in it any longer
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Cook will do what Cook does..... go back home to the farm, relax see his new family, forget about cricket completely until nearer the England summer, get his head in the right mind, speak to Strauss and probably Gooch, then strap them on again at Lords in July and smash the SA's around.
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smash the SA's around.
Although I'm pretty worried about Rabada tearing into us to be honest
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Although I'm pretty worried about Rabada tearing into us to be honest
Agreed definitely worried! :(
I was just trying to make that point about Cook.
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Cook will do what Cook does..... go back home to the farm, relax see his new family, forget about cricket completely until nearer the England summer, get his head in the right mind, speak to Strauss and probably Gooch, then strap them on again at Lords in July and smash the SA's around.
This is what I reckon/hope will happen.
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I think SA and NZ got worst pitches than England. They turned square and also had inconsistent bounce. In this series 3 out of 4 test matches had results and will be 4 out of 5 most probably, not bad IMO.
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Cook will do what Cook does..... go back home to the farm, relax see his new family, forget about cricket completely until nearer the England summer, get his head in the right mind, speak to Strauss and probably Gooch, then strap them on again at Lords in July and smash the SA's around.
Spot on also England are not going to hang around in India flying home at 3am on Wednesday morning.
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Just watched highlights!
They took us apart
Karun, when interviewed after said the sweep shot , 'my go to shot for a four!'
How many of our lot are prepared to play shots like that confidently ?
Buttler, maybe
It's a different mindset
Amazing to watch, and where people like Cook fall woefully short, when these shots are needed
As mark butcher just said'a thoroughly modern player'
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Be fair, of Nair has grown up in Manchester, he wouldn't be sweeping for weeks at a time.
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Jennings and Cook have made it through the first hour and a half, promising start.
Meanwhile the Daily Fail is 'reporting' that Leach didn't get called up to replace Ansari because the ECB tested his action and found he chucks it. Guessing we'll hear a lot more about that! I've done some brief youtube research and am confused, looks as straight an elbow as you'll ever find to me...
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First session down. On a very very flat track.
Atleast kohli has men round the bat.
On such a track with 477 on the board I really don't understand why cook had men on the boundary!! It's like we was wasting time from the off. Boring.
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They have missed a few chances but at least they are creating them by having the guys around the bat
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So Leachs action was possibly illegal? Hmmm
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Jennings gone, done like a Kipper bit brainless though from both Cook and Jennings
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Leach? His action is totally pure from what I've seen. He might be a few mph slower than is ideal for international cricket, but would learn that on the job.
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Poor shot from Jennings
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Leach? His action is totally pure from what I've seen. He might be a few mph slower than is ideal for international cricket, but would learn that on the job.
Thats the rumoir going around the ECB were concerned hence why they didnt pick him
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Thats the rumoir going around the ECB were concerned hence why they didnt pick him
Pretty amateur stuff from the ECB - should've done what all international sides do, play him till he gets caught. Ajmal made a career from chucking
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Here comes the dominos
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I thought leach was unlucky as if it hadn't have got his toe and popped up he would have had it covered
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Surely they can't have a repeat of Bangladesh. Bet kohli's going to regret not declaring earlier at some point.
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Oh dear bairstow! What a poor poor shot but good catch from jadeja. One more before tea and We could have a dicey last session
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Pretty amateur stuff from the ECB - should've done what all international sides do, play him till he gets caught. Ajmal made a career from chucking
Alot of players now days don't make a career out of it now its being pointed out more often
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Cat out. Pigeons everywhere.
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Oh Mo :(
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Because Aidy isn't here I'll say it.
"Dam white ball players shouldnt be near the test side"
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Ali's been looking to get out all innings. Been lucky to survive as long as he did.
What india would do for another 15 overs at england - should have declared earlier
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Stokes goes...21 overs to go. Surely england can't lose on this flat deck!
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Stokes goes...21 overs to go. Surely england can't lose on this flat deck!
course we can.
Is it a prettty flat wicket. Err yes. But it doesn't matter how flat the wicket is, if you start with men on the boundary have very little catching positions and bowl fodder, your not gonna take wickets.
And by allowing India to just cruise along to 7million runs, we put pressure on ourselves.
Kohli has just done a better job of maintaining that pressure.
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If Moeen had half a brain he'd be dangerous...ridiculous dismissal
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Do people not know how to block or value their wicket anymore
I get play natural game but as a test batsmen you must be able to grind for a few overs and save a game
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course we can.
Is it a prettty flat wicket. Err yes. But it doesn't matter how flat the wicket is, if you start with men on the boundary have very little catching positions and bowl fodder, your not gonna take wickets.
And by allowing India to just cruise along to 7million runs, we put pressure on ourselves.
Kohli has just done a better job of maintaining that pressure.
I do agree but also i would say that it is far easier to captain with the spin attack that Kohli has at his disposal and 700 runs on the board ;)
And I thought some of Kohli's captaincy was very odd in the 1st session this morning.
We have gifted our wickets again and showed no bottle.... series lost already.... they really just want to be at home.
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Rashid's going to save the day ;). He is playing as a specialist batsman this game
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Rashid's going to save the day ;). He is playing as a specialist batsman this game
well he has got 153 runs to make up :( :(
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Rashid's going to save the day ;). He is playing as a specialist batsman this game
Maybe not then! Another poor shot
Got to give credit to kohli there, everyone else would have kept their spinners on
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Well. This is very disappointing. Really dumb. :( Cook will not be captain at the end of the series I suspect. He may have made that decision before getting out there, which may have affected this tour....
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Right, BBL time! Can't watch this procession anymore!!!
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I hope Cook isn't captain after this. I like Cook and think he has done a decent job but I think he will be more valuable to the team if his batting improves with giving up the captaincy. He might stop dropping catches too.
I'm not sure if Root should be the successor. Is it best to leave him to keep averaging 50-odd? Maybe one of the bowlers would be capable?
I wonder if the ECB will have a review of the series and decide to do something radical to help us produce a variety of cricketers that have the tools to compete in every country? Maybe they need to incentivise counties like Northants, Somerset and/or a few others to produce pitches for spinners. Then the a few others to have fast bouncy tracks and the remaining counties stick to seaming green tops. You could even weight home matches to different ends of the season to aid this. Then you could judge young players in different conditions in your own country.
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Broad nearly walked! what's wrong with him - umpire didn't look like he was going to give that.
The end is near, Fair play to jadeja he's bowled well this test match
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Well that was embarrassing :D
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Pathetic, spineless, whatever word you want to add.
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Im on holiday trying to track it on a dodgy wifi connection was really hoping we would show some fight thats all i want!!
Collingwood come back and block it!! :)
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I'd like the exciting new era of English cricket to move aside for the consistent era of English cricket.
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and that's the game!
What an embarrassment on a flat pitch! how can you score 477 and still lose. 7-48 is quite the effort from Jadeja!
Credit to India, lost 4 tosses in 5 games and still won 4-0. That theory of winning the toss and winning in India has gone out the window.
England can't complain about the pitches this tour, they've been pretty flat too. No excuses whatsoever.
They've been outbowled (even india's seamers have been better) and out batted
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Redders offered me 4/1 at tea for a piece of the indian win. Foolish that i expected the captains to be shaking hands for different reasons at 10.30.
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I hope Cook isn't captain after this. I like Cook and think he has done a decent job but I think he will be more valuable to the team if his batting improves with giving up the captaincy. He might stop dropping catches too.
I'm not sure if Root should be the successor. Is it best to leave him to keep averaging 50-odd? Maybe one of the bowlers would be capable?
I wonder if the ECB will have a review of the series and decide to do something radical to help us produce a variety of cricketers that have the tools to compete in every country? Maybe they need to incentivise counties like Northants, Somerset and/or a few others to produce pitches for spinners. Then the a few others to have fast bouncy tracks and the remaining counties stick to seaming green tops. You could even weight home matches to different ends of the season to aid this. Then you could judge young players in different conditions in your own country.
Or just keep producing seaming green wickets to make the opening bowlers feel all warm and fuzzy
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The answer is simple.. We have enough young players and older heads to have 3 separate teams (obviously some will play 2 formats) with captains that aren't defensive.
Kohli is very defensive but they have out thought England in every aspect.. When they have needed to put a big score on the board they have cut the one day shots out. Their bowlers have bowled the right lines and length and attacked when they needed to..
One day shots (in every test!!) from Ali, Root, and Cook ( ur top 4) has been our downfall when they should be making sure that they bat TIME as well as tick the scoreboard over. Then Bairstow, Stokes and Butler can play their natural game with no pressure.
Does Root, Ali, Woakes, Rashid need to play T20? For me let Duckett just play the shorter format and look for players like Westley, North East, Vince etc to play mainly tests. It can happen if they give central contracts for players with ability and allow them to go away and develop their 4 day cricket skills. The knock on.effect would be a stronger 4 day game, an opportunity for more home grown players to become good one day players as their places aren't taken by players trying to play all 3 formats because of the need for a wage..
Personally I don't think it's been fair on Stokes when for every test match this series he has had to play a defensive type of innings.
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477 is officially the highest total by team losing by an innings :o :o :o
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Well that was embarrassing :D
good job the Aussies are down there shortly to show us all how losing in spectacular fashion should really be done!
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good job the Aussies are down there shortly to show us all how losing in spectacular fashion should really be done!
I think you guys have showed us the way hahaha
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We drop them and they score big. They drop us and we give them another go.
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Redders offered me 4/1 at tea for a piece of the indian win. Foolish that i expected the captains to be shaking hands for different reasons at 10.30.
I actually said to an india work mate we will be bowlerld put for 210 or less :(
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before everyone says how bad england are theres a few things to remeber:
India are number one in the world
They have the best bowler and the best batsmen (in home conditions)
they play an extraordinary amount of cricket at home compared to other nations.
Yes england have been woefully outplayed however:
We have found two openers, moeen hasnt been as bad as everyone has said (two hundreds in the series) with the bat
i think liam dawson will be very good for england in the future, can clearly bat and is a good holding spinner
cook if he does step down from captain can relax and just bat and bat and bat
buttler had proven himself very adaptable and should be in the side for a while yet
and jake ball looks a very god prospect, yes needs to work on control at test level but the more he plays the more that will improve
and we appear to be builing a young core of very good players!
one tour doesnt make this a bad side, we have been crying out for players to play there natural game for years and now they are theyre getting criticized for it? if we look at the core players how many are older than 30?
i think if we can build a top 7 out of any of the following we will be in a greta place in regards to batting,
root, hammeed, jennings, cook, ali, bairstow, buttler, stokes, woakes, dawson, ansari, roy, billings
we will have a good side then theres plenty of bowling options when our mainstay bowlers retire,
curran x 2, ball, stokes, woakes, overton x 2 leach ali
yes theres a lot of ifs and buts especially with players who havnt played yet but the majority have played lions cricket or are paying lions cricket!!
lets keep it positive!!!
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before everyone says how bad england are theres a few things to remeber:
India are number one in the world
They have the best bowler and the best batsmen (in home conditions)
they play an extraordinary amount of cricket at home compared to other nations.
Yes england have been woefully outplayed however:
We have found two openers, moeen hasnt been as bad as everyone has said (two hundreds in the series) with the bat
i think liam dawson will be very good for england in the future, can clearly bat and is a good holding spinner
cook if he does step down from captain can relax and just bat and bat and bat
buttler had proven himself very adaptable and should be in the side for a while yet
and jake ball looks a very god prospect, yes needs to work on control at test level but the more he plays the more that will improve
and we appear to be builing a young core of very good players!
one tour doesnt make this a bad side, we have been crying out for players to play there natural game for years and now they are theyre getting criticized for it? if we look at the core players how many are older than 30?
i think if we can build a top 7 out of any of the following we will be in a greta place in regards to batting,
root, hammeed, jennings, cook, ali, bairstow, buttler, stokes, woakes, dawson, ansari, roy, billings
we will have a good side then theres plenty of bowling options when our mainstay bowlers retire,
curran x 2, ball, stokes, woakes, overton x 2 leach ali
yes theres a lot of ifs and buts especially with players who havnt played yet but the majority have played lions cricket or are paying lions cricket!!
lets keep it positive!!!
Kohli and Ashwin didn't do much at all in this test match.
Buttler? Adaptable? He scored 43, 18, 76, 6*, 5, 6*.. Can he really stay in the side as a batsman?
I think England still have a couple of positions to fill... a work in progress though
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I think we can be positive as fans but the team itself need to stop hiding behind excuses. We have a lot of young players coming through but that isn't much good if the team isn't winning games and allowing them time to settle in.
Root needs to find a way to convert 50s into big hundreds again. Maybe he needs to go back to 4 and forget the Aussie macho rubbish about putting your best player at 3. KP was a number 4 and was fine there. Maybe in Australia where the ball goes soft sooner the number 3 doesn't get exposed to the new ball as much but in England they will. You want your best batsmen to have the easiest conditions to bat so they maximise their talent surely? The top 3 need to bat time. What is the point of having batsmen like Root, Bairstow, Stokes etc if everyone is trying to score quickly. Don't you wear out the bowlers and then aim to get the fast scorers to come in after 60 overs so they have 20 overs to get themselves in and then murder the new ball allowing the tail to come in and milk another 100 runs?
I think if they can get the batting to improve the bowling will suddenly get better too. Warne and McGrath were amazing bowlers but they also had big runs to play with most of the time which maximised their effectiveness.
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Only positive I've seen is hammed for definate and Jennings as a maybe.
We have been poor through out on pitches that weren't that bad.
We was poor in main against Pakistan and beat a poor sri lankan side.
Maybe it's complacency but we have reallndropped since beating South Africa at the beginning of the year. We are no where near those performances.
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Kohli and Ashwin didn't do much at all in this test match.
Buttler? Adaptable? He scored 43, 18, 76, 6*, 5, 6*.. Can he really stay in the side as a batsman?
I think England still have a couple of positions to fill... a work in progress though
They did over the series though!
And yeah I think buttler over the series has shown adaptability especially during the 76 where he battled through the evening then expanded as his innings went on!
We need a few better bowlers but I think the batting will take far if it's self!
I'd love a top 4 of cook hammeed Jennings root with yjb stokes Ali following
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Cook's a very stubborn man, who still thinks he should be ODI captain. I don't see him stepping down on his own accord. He'll have to be pushed.
Cook's failings this series:
1. wrong team selection
2. too defensive - with 477 on the board he had sweepers out from ball 1.
3. clueless about his bowling changes
4. had a backstop!
5. blamed everything from the pitch, to the toss, to missed chances.
etc.
On a positive least his tossing skills were good ;)
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Only positive I've seen is hammed for definate and Jennings as a maybe.
We have been poor through out on pitches that weren't that bad.
We was poor in main against Pakistan and beat a poor sri lankan side.
Maybe it's complacency but we have reallndropped since beating South Africa at the beginning of the year. We are no where near those performances.
100% agree with Hameed... Still not sure on Jennings
I think Root had a fair tour and is fine batting at 3 and think he would handle the captaincy nicely
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Test cricket these days is all about batting 1st and going big and then using scoreboard pressure. There aren't many places around the world anymore that you can genuinely say thats a bowl 1st ground (maybe a couple in NZ or here if the conditions are favorable - but its still a risk) because the corporate seats must be filled for 5 days for the grounds/boards to survive - so the tracks are flat.
Therefore batting and more specifically scoring big 'daddy' hundreds becomes the necessity. We just don't score big 1st innings runs any more (it happened all through the summer as well against PAK). You can say what you like about the 477 and 400 but India then showed what a par score actually was on those pitches!
Our batting needs sorting, to have the skill and determination to bat long - not get 40 or even 80 and get out. It is all well and good saying 'have positive intent' but if that gets you out whats the point.
Whether the captaincy changes or not i believe that is where the issues start. Maybe i am just talking rubbish and to much of a traditionalist ;) ;)
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I think Root had a fair tour and is fine batting at 3 and think he would handle the captaincy nicely
Down under with your abuse i dont think so, but if he has been made captain he'll have to grow bigger balls
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Beaten by the better side this time no if or buts.
Things not good enough.
Batting all round not good enough (no consistency) 50 do not win games in India.
Spin cupboard is bare. Rashid is not good enough at all neither are the other lot , yes India have top class players in these conditions but not good enough for me.
Seam Hard to say will be back in pomp back in the Uk.
Overall disappointed with the bitchy England side this time moaning about conditions yet when we are at home we don't.
They have better batters and spinners..
Well played India and fair play much work to do by England but every dog....
India batting stock looks very good they are a very good side I suspect in most conditions now.
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Down under with your abuse i dont think so, but if he has been made captain he'll have to grow bigger balls
That's a bit harsh coming from a country of soccer hooligans :D
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That's a bit harsh coming from a country of soccer hooligans :D
Even thats getting abit out of hand at the moment
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I think Shami and Umesh were very good in parts. Quick, threatening and seemed to 'think out' a couple of our batsmen, I think Ashwin is getting better and better and would like to see how he adapts to bowling on English puddings.
Only question is the Indian top 5's ability in swinging conditions and with a few balls up their snot-boxes. I have a sneaking suspicion that Kholi will be better next time he comes to us, and Puj possibly. Not entirely sure about the others.
Better side won, regardless of the conditions, and we have some thinking to do about our best XI moving forwards, with possibly some harsh selection decisions to make.
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I think you guys have showed us the way hahaha
I think we still do marginally beter than your last attempt!
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I think Shami and Umesh were very good in parts. Quick, threatening and seemed to 'think out' a couple of our batsmen, I think Ashwin is getting better and better and would like to see how he adapts to bowling on English puddings.
Only question is the Indian top 5's ability in swinging conditions and with a few balls up their snot-boxes. I have a sneaking suspicion that Kholi will be better next time he comes to us, and Puj possibly. Not entirely sure about the others.
Better side won, regardless of the conditions, and we have some thinking to do about our best XI moving forwards, with possibly some harsh selection decisions to make.
Rahane although had a shocker to a degree is proven around the world.
I think the Indian batting looks very very strong.
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I'd love Root to be a good captain who's batting is unaffected by the added mental strain but how many people have actually managed to do it. Maybe he really is that special. But he hasn't even captained more than a handful of games. I'd bet that initially he would score big as I get the impression his ego makes him better. But with people like that, when things go wrong and self-doubt creeps in, everything suffers.
I don't know him so I might be very wrong. I can't think of a viable alternative. Maybe Cook should keep going for another 4 years and we just accept he will do an average job and do OK opening the batting.
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Genuinely, I think Root is a natural leader but at his age and playing all three formats, I just can't see it working out. Two, three years from now certainly but not yet.
So who? I think Cook's body language has already told us that he has moved on from the job, and Stokes, whilst a great leader "from the front" is also overburdened. If the management are wedded to Jos Buttler playing as a specialist bat then I can see some benefit in trying him in the job and seeing how it goes.
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I think we still do marginally beter than your last attempt!
Can we save the willy waving until the ashes??
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Amazing stat, 41 catches dropped this series with india dropping 21 and england 20. Not seen that many drops in a series
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Stat attack -
http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-england-2016-17/content/story/1073524.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-england-2016-17/content/story/1073524.html)
one of my favorites is that Cook has had 25 x 100 run opening partnerships in 2016 - and in those 25 he has had 10 different partners!
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Stat attack -
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-england-2016-17/content/story/1073524.html[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-england-2016-17/content/story/1073524.html[/url])
one of my favorites is that Cook has had 25 x 100 run opening partnerships in 2016 - and in those 25 he has had 10 different partners!
Can we name the partners?
jennings, hammeed, duckett, strauss, trott, compton, carberry, robson, lyth
thats all i can think of and im not sure if theyre all correct
thats 25 career 100 opening partnerships
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Can we name the partners?
jennings, hammeed, duckett, strauss, trott, compton, carberry, robson, lyth
thats all i can think of and im not sure if theyre all correct
thats 25 career 100 opening partnerships
yep sorry my bad it is career not 2016.
Root i reckon is on the list?
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Hales just once no?
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No need to panic. As long as Eng survive SA at home next summer, the team will get better. Pretty sure England can avenge this series next time India Tours England.
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Out of the innings where Cook and partner haven't reached 100, how many times is he the first to fall?
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Dismal loss aside I'm pretty glad Michael Vaughan's run total wasn't surpassed.
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From an Indian Fan who watched every single match...only 2.5 Eng players deserve any kind of mention
1 - Hameed, showed great temperament and hopefully team management doesn't muck around with him.
2 - Stokes, seems to have the fire in his belly, bowled well batted well.
.5 - Jennings, got chances but cashed them in. He could be a good player for future.
Everyone else was not that good. Eng didn't lose because of their spinners, we all knew they were not at the same level. Eng lost because your fast bowling was not up to the level it was expected and your batsmen did not bat well. When Shami & Umesh have bowled better than Eng fast bowlers that's the clear sign where a problem was...
I don't think Eng can have any excuse regarding losing this series, they were the worse of 2 teams. I also don't think Root should captain, he does not come across as a Captain. I would still say Stokes should take over Eng captaincy.
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Eng didn't lose because of their spinners
How many wickets did take they take at an average in comparison?
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How many wickets did take they take at an average in comparison?
My point was Eng didn't or should not have arrived in India thinking their spinners would win them the series, Just like India doesn't go to Aus/Eng thinking their fast bowlers are going to blow the opposition away.
If English fast bowlers performed like how we have seen them do in past, even in India, and with good captaining your spinners could have held an end while the fast bowlers scared Indian batsmen.
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Hales just once no?
Strauss, Compton, Root, Carberry, Robson, Trott, Lyth, Ali, Hales, Duckett, Hameed, Jennings
this is all his partners i think - not sure which 10 are the 100 stands though - i think you can pretty much rule out Duckett so that just leaves 1 other
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Think people are going overboard with their praise for stokes...He only had 2 notable knocks (128 in 1st test and 70 in second) with failures for the remainder. If you look, all his big scores came in the 1st innings of a match and when we are under pressure 2nd dig he ultimately fails. He also only took one 5for and barely anything else, although he did bowl well and showed far more spirit than some. In my opinion he has a long way to go to be the finished article. If he wants to be batting top 5 he has to contribute more and have match winning performances in the second innings. Could even argue Ali has moved above him for that no5 spot
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Wait what England lost....after this English fans should be banned from talking about nature of Indian pitches for next 100 years :D :D
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Think people are going overboard with their praise for stokes...He only had 2 notable knocks (128 in 1st test and 70 in second) with failures for the remainder. If you look, all his big scores came in the 1st innings of a match and when we are under pressure 2nd dig he ultimately fails. He also only took one 5for and barely anything else, although he did bowl well and showed far more spirit than some. In my opinion he has a long way to go to be the finished article. If he wants to be batting top 5 he has to contribute more and have match winning performances in the second innings. Could even argue Ali has moved above him for that no5 spot
Harsh on Stokes TBH. Thought he was very good. Everyone said he can't bat on slow pitches. But he was good in Bangladesh and India. And he was massively under bowled in the final two Tests. As far as I'm aware he took the only 5fer by an Englishman in India
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Strauss, Compton, Root, Carberry, Robson, Trott, Lyth, Ali, Hales, Duckett, Hameed, Jennings
this is all his partners i think - not sure which 10 are the 100 stands though - i think you can pretty much rule out Duckett so that just leaves 1 other
Second test on Bangladesh duckett and cook put in exactly 100
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Second test on Bangladesh duckett and cook put in exactly 100
i didn't realise it was 100 after we only made 160 odd :(
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i didn't realise it was 100 after we only made 160 odd :(
thats why it was so bad!!!!
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Harsh on Stokes TBH. Thought he was very good. Everyone said he can't bat on slow pitches. But he was good in Bangladesh and India. And he was massively under bowled in the final two Tests. As far as I'm aware he took the only 5fer by an Englishman in India
Agreed, it is maybe a little harsh but my point about him not contributing enough or consistently as a number 5 has substance. You say he batted well on tour, but he only had one score in Bangladesh and 2 in India - that's 7 tests with only 3 scores over 50. Not exactly pulling up trees
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England were expected to lose this series 5-0
we lost 4-0
This is better than expected. No one is successful in India. England certainly weren't set up to win this series and have been making do from both a spinners and batters perspective
Today result whilst disappointing - not unexpected. would have been good to not fail like that but not unsurprising
re Cook's captaincy - he didn't have the players to look smart. It's easy to succeed with great bowlers. England's 6-10 bowlers, in India, aren't good enough but they were the best we appeared to have available.
conclusions:
Keep Cook
Move Root to 4
Hameed to open
Jennings at 3
Ali back to 8
Bairstow, Stokes and Buttler in the engine room
Woakes, Broad and Anderson - will Ball, Wood and the future performance bowlers to pressure them and Jennings for the next India tour ;-)
next step SA in English conditions on the 6th July :-D
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Harsh on Stokes TBH. Thought he was very good. Everyone said he can't bat on slow pitches. But he was good in Bangladesh and India. And he was massively under bowled in the final two Tests. As far as I'm aware he took the only 5fer by an Englishman in India
Agreed. The progress made by Stokes this year has been fantastic, he's shown a growing maturity with both bat and ball as well as talent in my opinion too.
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England were expected to lose this series 5-0
we lost 4-0
This is better than expected. No one is successful in India. England certainly weren't set up to win this series and have been making do from both a spinners and batters perspective
Today result whilst disappointing - not unexpected. would have been good to not fail like that but not unsurprising
re Cook's captaincy - he didn't have the players to look smart. It's easy to succeed with great bowlers. England's 6-10 bowlers, in India, aren't good enough but they were the best we appeared to have available.
conclusions:
Keep Cook
Move Root to 4
Hameed to open
Jennings at 3
Ali back to 8
Bairstow, Stokes and Buttler in the engine room
Woakes, Broad and Anderson - will Ball, Wood and the future performance bowlers to pressure them and Jennings for the next India tour ;-)
next step SA in English conditions on the 6th July :-D
Totally with you on that...most of the time we dont really need a spinner as such, hence why ali plays we simply cannot do without his runs..but i wonder if turning away from the bat may put dawson in and around the squad more than people think.
Same role ashley giles played for a while.he did an unglamourous job for us home and away
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Why does everyone say move Jennings, why not move Cook? Having Hameed and Jennings at the top of the order might be a better bet.
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Why does everyone say move Jennings, why not move Cook? Having Hameed and Jennings at the top of the order might be a better bet.
Doesn't make sense to move the guy who has 11,000 runs at 1/2 surely?
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Doesn't make sense to move the guy who has 11,000 runs at 1/2 surely?
I think it really depends on how long Cook wants to play for and do the England management really think that Hameed/Jennings will be the long term opening partnership.
If so then i can see merit in moving Cook to 3 and starting early on the new long term England opening pair.
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I think it really depends on how long Cook wants to play for and do the England management really think that Hameed/Jennings will be the long term opening partnership.
If so then i can see merit in moving Cook to 3 and starting early on the new long term England opening pair.
Cook's only 32 though, he could feasibly play another 30+ Tests if he's hungry enough.
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Cook's only 32 though, he could feasibly play another 30+ Tests if he's hungry enough.
He's also batted at 3 before and has success for me the other two are out openers also moving a clearly strained cook to 3 might just take some pressure off him
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England's problem is a lack of runs from the top 4. There is been mix and match at the top for ages with cook. What if cook is the issue?
My view is that the team would benefit from starting afresh at the top and having a more heavyweight middle order.
Jennings
Hameed
Cook
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Moeen
Woakes
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He's also batted at 3 before and has success for me the other two are out openers also moving a clearly strained cook to 3 might just take some pressure off him
I understand what you're saying but 12 innings at 3 vs 240 innings at 1/2 is a bit different surely? But who knows, maybe 3 would give him a new lease of life? I suspect the ECB will probably let Cook call his own shots regarding the whole situation, it will be interesting to see how he feels before the SA series.
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More mental fatigue than anything else, at this level they all can play cricket. All was needed was block for 3 sessions and it was a drawn match! Kohli and co didn't let up on pressure and the difference ultimately came down to leadership - yes, Kohli!
I think Cook's done. It time for a New England Test captain. Root is not the man. He and Cook should focus on runs and records. My pick would be Benji - a fiery character when given responsibility will shine like Kohli. Test cricket has changed in last few years, drawn matches are a rarity and teams need fiery, aggressive captains to fight and win.
Also, England should separate the Test crew from ODI and T-20. All-rounders like Benji are an exception. Test should be treated as a different discipline all together. Haseeb in Test team. Duckett ODI. Bairstow Test. Billings, Butler ODI/T-20. Broad and Anderson have seen their prime and it is time to start experimenting with substitutes. ECB system has enough talent to fill the spots and then develop and groom the players.
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More mental fatigue than anything else, at this level they all can play cricket. All was needed was block for 3 sessions and it was a drawn match! Kohli and co didn't let up on pressure and the difference ultimately came down to leadership - yes, Kohli!
I think Cook's done. It time for a New England Test captain. Root is not the man. He and Cook should focus on runs and records. My pick would be Benji - a fiery character when given responsibility will shine like Kohli. Test cricket has changed in last few years, drawn matches are a rarity and teams need fiery, aggressive captains to fight and win.
Also, England should separate the Test crew from ODI and T-20. All-rounders like Benji are an exception. Test should be treated as a different discipline all together. Haseeb in Test team. Duckett ODI. Bairstow Test. Billings, Butler ODI/T-20. Broad and Anderson have seen their prime and it is time to start experimenting with substitutes. ECB system has enough talent to fill the spots and then develop and groom the players.
agree with everything except the test skipper and buttlers position as the mor ei think about it id love to see buttler as captain and batsmen only in tests and captain and keeper in odi/t20
He did a really good job in banlgadesh and when it mattered (during the almost fights) really showed an aggressive and competitive side!
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@alexhilly1492 , Jos Butler was my second choice as the Test captain after Benji. :) Only reason I hesitate is his batting in Test cricket hasn't been great. Maybe he needs some time and opportunity. Benji can bat in Test.
I agree with your thoughts.
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Keep the same team and Captain. Just schedule a ridiculous number of successive home series like the BCCI ;)
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^ LOL
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@alexhilly1492 , Jos Butler was my second choice as the Test captain after Benji. :) Only reason I hesitate is his batting in Test cricket hasn't been great. Maybe he needs some time and opportunity. Benji can bat in Test.
I agree with your thoughts.
Yeah I just think this series buttler showed some adaptability and a run in the side will be best for him! Would love to see stokes as v/c and have a captaincy team of buttler stokes with support from root
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I think people are forgetting Cook left a few days old baby to come to India for this tour.
I don't know about anybody else but my mind wouldn't be 100% on work if I had to do that!!
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Cook averaged 24 in Aus, 23 in S Africa, 22 in Bangladesh & in India lower than Root, Bairstow, Jennings, Hameed, Ali, Buttler and Stokes.
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Has to carry on. Needs to lead this new ish young side through the next English summer at least, if he wants it enough. Needs some rest first and to settle down for a while
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Cook and Jennings did ther jobs Uptill lunch but following the after lunch incompetent team performance cook may be relieved of the captaincy .
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Cook is shielding Root at the moment and Root knows it -he wants Cook to carry on so he can become the worlds best batsman unburdened by the pressure the captain gets put under.
Vaughan and his buddy boycott should stop trying to get headlines in the press.
The pair of them are just attention seekers :)
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Cook is shielding Root at the moment and Root knows it -he wants Cook to carry on so he can become the worlds best batsman unburdened by the pressure the captain gets put under.
Vaughan and his buddy boycott should stop trying to get headlines in the press.
The pair of them are just attention seekers :)
Maybe they should give the captaincy to Buttler he's well thought of at the ECB wouldn't give it to broad though as once he starts bowling they will never get the ball off him.
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Maybe they should give the captaincy to Buttler he's well thought of at the ECB wouldn't give it to broad though as once he starts bowling they will never get the ball off him.
Haha you may well be right!! I just think it seems to be treated like some sort of inheritance...im not convinced Root would be any better.
I think Cook has had enough myself but in my opinion theres no clear replacement.He needs some others to stand up and be counted-11 in a team :)