Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Latest Matches => Topic started by: Biggie Smalls on September 12, 2017, 10:32:57 AM
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Too early ?
Nah , never too early !
Thought id kick things off by listing the two XIs that Warney has picked for the first test in Brissy .
England
Stoneman
Cook
Root
Hales
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Crane
Anderson
Australia
Renshaw
Warner
Khawaja
Smith
Handscomb
Maxwell
Wade
Starc
Cummins
Lyon
Hazlewood
*Warney said there's a place on the plane for Malan but not Westley .
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Warnie, like Vaughan is just a click bait rentaquote.
Root is very very unlikely to bat a three, so any team selections with that happening are a waste of space. The Lions team will be in Aus, so Hameed, Crane and other popular selections will be there actually playing rather than carrying drinks.
Squad will be
Batters
Cook, Stoneman, Hales, Root, Malan, then Westley or Ballance, whomever gets the most runs.
All rounders
Stokes, Woakes and Moeen
Keepers
Bairstow, Foakes
Bowlers
Anderson, Broad, TRJ, Jake Ball, Wood. Dawson may go too...! (18 is too many I know, but 17 will be the number.)
No futher discussions required...! ;)
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Hameed would be one of my openers , so its a good thing that eng can take a squad , then change their minds /opt for plan b etc , with the lions being in oz at the same time .
I thought it was interesting that Warney found room in the starting side for Crane .
Personally , Root is better at 4 than 3 . However , he is also better a 3 than most other options , and i think it's easier for England to find a capable 4 than a 3 for oz conditions . Maybe just for the ashes Root should 'take one for the team' and elevate himself .
I'm not in the know enough re english domestic cricket to know whether Robson , Ballance , Jennings , Bell-Drummond, Compton etc will all make the lions squad .... or who else is on the horizon to look out for . I keep thinking Hales and Roy need to be in the mix ( I'd have Hales at 5 , Roy in the test squad ... possibly opening with Cook if Hameed doesnt come good) .
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I agree with the warne style of thinking in that we don't need the extra batsmen, especially when woakes looks like he'd contribute more with the bat than someone like malan anyway. Hoping hameed finishes the season well and sneaks into the starting XI as he is one of the best technically, and has a strong mentality. If he gets a few runs I'd have him opening and stoneman three.
Cook
Hameed
Stoneman
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
Then probably wood,hales,foakes,trj and malan.
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Warnie, like Vaughan is just a click bait rentaquote.
Root is very very unlikely to bat a three, so any team selections with that happening are a waste of space. The Lions team will be in Aus, so Hameed, Crane and other popular selections will be there actually playing rather than carrying drinks.
Squad will be
Batters
Cook, Stoneman, Hales, Root, Malan, then Westley or Ballance, whomever gets the most runs.
All rounders
Stokes, Woakes and Moeen
Keepers
Bairstow, Foakes
Bowlers
Anderson, Broad, TRJ, Jake Ball, Wood. Dawson may go too...! (18 is too many I know, but 17 will be the number.)
No futher discussions required...! ;)
I think Westley and Dawson are a waste of the cost of airline tickets ! Make them sit at home and pay for a Sky Sports subscription!
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Joe root should be told where he is batting, 3.
It's not a village green game where everyone wants to bat 5.
Just my opinion :)
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For the record :
Cook
Hameed
Stoneman
Root
Hales
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Trj ( swap for Jimmy at Adelaide and any green pitch encountered )
Broad
Eng best chances are at adelaide ( they may get more out of the pink ball than oz) , sydney, Melbourne.
Engs main advantages are : they potentially will bat bat deeper in the order ; they have an extra legit bowling option .
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I think Westley and Dawson are a waste of the cost of airline tickets ! Make them sit at home and pay for a Sky Sports subscription!
I agree, Ballance should captain the Lions or something. This is a case of what will happen rather than what I would do.
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Personally believe there's no need for the extra bowler.
Nasser made a great point the other day in debate, along the lines of there's 30 overs in a session 6 bowlers means at least 1 bowler a session will be stood in the field doing not a lot or bowling a couple overs, a gap that Root can do surely?
Crane, leach, Hameed, Jennings and Ballance all to be in the lions playing matches not carrying drinks.
I'm intrested to see who they look to as 2nd keeper? Part thinks Butler obvious option, but whats the point if he wont play, he mentioned about going to the BPL and presumably BBL. being from Lancs I'd love to see lions take Davies (scored most keeper runs i think? and 2nd in dismissals as well)
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Btw , i havent heard if eng will get to pkay a tour/practice game with a pink kooks ? Would suck if they dont get that opportunity.
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Personally believe there's no need for the extra bowler.
Nasser made a great point the other day in debate, along the lines of there's 30 overs in a session 6 bowlers means at least 1 bowler a session will be stood in the field doing not a lot or bowling a couple overs, a gap that Root can do surely?
Crane, leach, Hameed, Jennings and Ballance all to be in the lions playing matches not carrying drinks.
I'm intrested to see who they look to as 2nd keeper? Part thinks Butler obvious option, but whats the point if he wont play, he mentioned about going to the BPL and presumably BBL. being from Lancs I'd love to see lions take Davies (scored most keeper runs i think? and 2nd in dismissals as well)
Id love to see at least one side with a pure keeper ( don't get me wrong , i think bairstow is the bees knees ). . That's why part of me hopes oz would go waaay left field and pick Alex Carey . He is a walking keeping masterclass .
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Cook
hammeed
Stoneman
root
malan
stokes
bairstow
ali
woakes
Roland jones
anderson
Squad:
westley
broad
foakes
buttler
wood
crane
squad of 17
yes ive dropped broad but i think TRJ has bowled much more attackingly and looks in much better form at the moment he also hasnt gone at a stupid high run rate either and stregthens the batting which is our weakness too
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Personally believe there's no need for the extra bowler.
Nasser made a great point the other day in debate, along the lines of there's 30 overs in a session 6 bowlers means at least 1 bowler a session will be stood in the field doing not a lot or bowling a couple overs, a gap that Root can do surely?
Crane, leach, Hameed, Jennings and Ballance all to be in the lions playing matches not carrying drinks.
I'm intrested to see who they look to as 2nd keeper? Part thinks Butler obvious option, but whats the point if he wont play, he mentioned about going to the BPL and presumably BBL. being from Lancs I'd love to see lions take Davies (scored most keeper runs i think? and 2nd in dismissals as well)
But equally what's the point in taking another batsmen that isn't scoring any runs? We're basically carrying a player then, plus we'll be playing on some of the flattest tracks in the world in Australia so I think 6 bowlers will come in handy, even if someone like a rashid doesn't bowl many first innings overs. Let's not forget broad and jimmy don't have the greatest records in Aus either, and the heat, I doubt we'll be seeing many spells longer than 6 or 7 overs from the seamers.
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Cook
hammeed
Stoneman
root
malan
stokes
bairstow
ali
woakes
Roland jones
anderson
Squad:
westley
broad
foakes
buttler
wood
crane
squad of 17
yes ive dropped broad but i think TRJ has bowled much more attackingly and looks in much better form at the moment he also hasnt gone at a stupid high run rate either and stregthens the batting which is our weakness too
Not the side I'd have , but not far off ... i like it !
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But equally what's the point in taking another batsmen that isn't scoring any runs? We're basically carrying a player then, plus we'll be playing on some of the flattest tracks in the world in Australia so I think 6 bowlers will come in handy, even if someone like a rashid doesn't bowl many first innings overs. Let's not forget broad and jimmy don't have the greatest records in Aus either, and the heat, I doubt we'll be seeing many spells longer than 6 or 7 overs from the seamers.
Fair points ( particularly re broad and anderson) , but .... what about Mo ! I think he's improved massively and will do a decent job in oz . So 5 legit bowlers plus Root and other part timers should be enough ?
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Wouldn't be surprised for the first test England play 5 seamers.
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Fair points ( particularly re broad and anderson) , but .... what about Mo ! I think he's improved massively and will do a decent job in oz . So 5 legit bowlers plus Root and other part timers should be enough ?
Maybe it's overkill but surely it's better to have too much bowling rather than too little? The only batsmen I'd consider in my team above to replace Rashid would probably be hales as he is used to facing 90mph+ regularly in the one day formats.
Stoneman in the runs again this morning.
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That's my point on the spells, 7 overs per bowler is still only 4 bowlers per session, 6 in a side can lead to too much changing and not giving any combinations a real chance.
I think the biggest headache in the selection will come if Wood is fit and bowling quick does he get in on his pace alone?
I thought about hales but you end up with a middle order that's powerful and appears to be all want to be scoring at nearly a run a ball. There will be a test were england will be <50-3 at some point imo and i dont fancy hales walking out then. flip that and we could easily be 200-3 and i wouldnt want ballance strolling out to push the scoring on.
I think malan can be a very good no5, batted really nice at 3 in t20 quick and free flowing, but also showed he can digin at headingley.
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6 bowlers is completely unnecessary, many test teams manage fine with 4 plus maybe a part-time spinner! 6 will mean one bloke on the boundary doing nothing, or our best bowlers bowling less overs.
Don't think Hales will go, Hameed will be doing his time in the Lions, can definitely see us taking a spare opener. Seamers/allrounders pick themselves, Foakes is the obvious reserve, so:
Batters
Cook, Stoneman, Root, Malan, then a spare opener - probably Robson/Lyth, lastly either Westley or a new pick - maybe Northeast/Roy? Good time for a middle order player or opener to get big runs at the end of the CC season. Or a good time to lose a few pounds if your name's Samit Patel!
All rounders
Stokes, Woakes, Moeen
Keepers
Bairstow, Foakes
Bowlers
Anderson, Broad, TRJ, Jake Ball, Wood and a spinner, depends whether they think Crane is ready or plump for Leach/Rayner. Given they'll likely just be carrying the drinks, I'd send Crane with the Lions and pick Rayner as the safest backup option.
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Bayliss said it's unlikely they'll be anyone in the squad who hasn't been included over the past 12-18 months, I'd say this means the only questions are (as always) over 3 of the top 5 between Stoneman, Westley, Malan, Ballance, Hales, Jennings and Hameed. I'd think it would also rule out any wild card pick of taking Jason Roy, Northeast, Leach, Rayner etc. or going back to Lyth, Robson Not sure what it means for the backup keeper though, sounds like they might just take Buttler instead of Foakes but who knows.
Bowlers pick themselves (presuming they take Crane as 2nd spinner) at least as far as the squad goes, starting XI and there could still be some debate.
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Bayliss said it's unlikely they'll be anyone in the squad who hasn't been included over the past 12-18 months, I'd say this means the only questions are (as always) over 3 of the top 5 between Stoneman, Westley, Malan, Ballance, Hales, Jennings and Hameed. I'd think it would also rule out any wild card pick of taking Jason Roy, Northeast, Leach, Rayner etc. or going back to Lyth, Robson Not sure what it means for the backup keeper though, sounds like they might just take Buttler instead of Foakes but who knows.
Bowlers pick themselves (presuming they take Crane as 2nd spinner) at least as far as the squad goes, starting XI and there could still be some debate.
Exactly...most of the squad picks itself.lyth and robson have not done enough for a recall and Jennings is still in the same bad Trot-they surely won't be in
Stoneman looks good so far out of the new 3 batters.
Malan the next best if we go with the extra batter
I'd also like to see hameed with the lions...as was discussed a while back on here could he return as a number 3 or 4 in future?
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1. Cook
2. Hameed
3. Root
4. Hales
5. Stokes
6. Bairstow (Batter only, pretty awesome fielder without the gloves).
7. Butler (WK)
8. Ali
9. Broad
10. Wood (If fit) or a fit Plunkett would be a handful in oz.
11. Anderson
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1. Cook
2. Hameed
3. Root
4. Hales
5. Stokes
6. Bairstow (Batter only, pretty awesome fielder without the gloves).
7. Butler (WK)
8. Ali
9. Broad
10. Wood (If fit) or a fit Plunkett would be a handful in oz.
11. Anderson
I don't understand why people think Buttler should be included? He hardly plays any red ball cricket at all.
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I don't understand why people think Buttler should be included? He hardly plays any red ball cricket at all.
Agreed. Realistically he will probably go as a spare as he's played in aua before but he 1 hasnt played red ball for ages amd 2 if he were to of have the chance. He would have had it ages ago when malan and westley didnt really work. But no.
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Agreed - it seems nonsensical to me when you have a ready-made reserve in Foakes, who plays a lot of 4-day stuff, and seems to be doing pretty well. Plus a great opportunity to involve him in the squad and get used to the Test and touring scene.
Still, it's all subjective, isn't it. I also don't know why people suddenly think Hales is a shoe-in as a test no.4 or wood as a test-match bowler.
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Alex Carey .
Who? :D
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I should point out that I wouldn't be surprised if Buttler gets taken as the reserve keeper but I think Foakes is the better option.
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Who? :D
Jim's brother .
Also the south oz keeper. Great , great hands.
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I don't understand why people think Buttler should be included? He hardly plays any red ball cricket at all.
He came in and did a good job in India after we all said the same thing
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1. Cook
2. Hameed
3. Root
4. Hales
5. Stokes
6. Bairstow (Batter only, pretty awesome fielder without the gloves).
7. Butler (WK)
8. Ali
9. Broad
10. Wood (If fit) or a fit Plunkett would be a handful in oz.
11. Anderson
Stokes will NOT bat at 5 - he is always batting at 6!!! And Buttler is unlikely to be in the XI.
I would like to see:
Cook
Stoneman
Hameed
Root
Malan/Hales
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
TRJ/Wokes
Broad
Anderson
Westley has not really taken his chance against Windies! He did some hard graft against SA but hasn't impressed since.
Would prefer to see Hameed at 5 initially but without an on-form no3 bat, choices are limited! Plus Root can keep his fave 4 position and Bairstow and Ali better at 7 and 8!
Like one or two others, I think Broad hasn't been on top form lately but he is always dangerous and seems to have a few great spells saved for the Aussies ;) So see how he gets on. Hard to leave Anderson out considering his form this Summer.
Not sure there are any wickets which require loads of spin options! Surely Ali, Root and Malan are enough options?
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Agreed - it seems nonsensical to me when you have a ready-made reserve in Foakes, who plays a lot of 4-day stuff, and seems to be doing pretty well. Plus a great opportunity to involve him in the squad and get used to the Test and touring scene.
Still, it's all subjective, isn't it. I also don't know why people suddenly think Hales is a shoe-in as a test no.4 or wood as a test-match bowler.
Hales is a shoe in because he is an experienced international, knows his game and has score loads if runs recently in all forma of cricket.
Not sure what else he can do!
Stoneman's ton today was also helpful for him.
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Totally agree about Hales - he has Test experience batting at 2, but batting at 5 I reckon he would be more comfortable and even lethal and destructive if he's on form.
As I said somewhere else, if Stoneman and Hameed (or other number 3) perform, then the top 4 are taken care of. Then Hales, Stokes, Bairstow, Ali and Woakes or TRJ to follow from 5-9 batting......that would be quite scary for a lot of teams!!
But Malan did look quite good too - so my selection has either option at 5, but can't see either at 4 really! Plus Root is unlikely to give up 4!!
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I was just stating the 11 players I would choose to take to OZ. As for stokes never batting at 5 and only batting at 6 it is just a number and he has proven he can perform under pressure when the team needs him the most.
Buttler may not have played a lot of red ball cricket but he can win games and take matches away from the opposition. Seeing some one a destructive as Buttler at 7 is likely to unsettle any team. If Woakes can get fit he would be a great addition to the side, but he looked far from his best with the ball against the Windies. He did look in decent touch with the bat.
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Why didn't Hales play against the Windies then? would seem to have been a great opportunity to try him out, rather than chucking him in against the Aussies.
(Disclaimer - I don't have a problem with him in the side, nothing would give me greater pleasure than watching him go mental at number 5 and batter everyone out of the park)
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I'd love Buttler in the side, but with that in mind he's off for a Lions tour for me, to get some more red ball gametime. Imagine having to bowl at him and Livingstone mind!
Plunkett is a good shout, I'd quite possibly take him ahead of Ball.
The issue with Hales - he's a proven international player, no problems there, but he got stuck under the pressure of tests last time. Which doesn't bode well for an away Ashes...
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Why didn't Hales play against the Windies then? would seem to have been a great opportunity to try him out, rather than chucking him in against the Aussies.
Because Westley and Malan did?
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I quite liked Shane Warne's squad, if anyone saw it? I doubt Mason Crane's really ready, though.
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Let me throw a name into Englands middle order quandry
A man with a proven test record and experience of winning Ashes series home and away
Ian Bell. Granted not had the greatest of seasons domestically but if he was available I'd pick him ahead of Westley, Malan and Hales in a heartbeat.
I would also go with Foakes ahead of Buttler. Been class all season with gloves and bat
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Let me throw a name into Englands middle order quandry
A man with a proven test record and experience of winning Ashes series home and away
Ian Bell. Granted not had the greatest of seasons domestically but if he was available I'd pick him ahead of Westley, Malan and Hales in a heartbeat.
I would also go with Foakes ahead of Buttler. Been class all season with gloves and bat
Superb! :) this will get the forum talking and it's healthy to have different views.
Lots of debate on here on different threads and Ian bell. One of my favourite players and a class act.
His time has gone thou I think. Shame he seemed to lose motivation after being dropped by England.
In my book thou.....a wonderful player.
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There are probably twelve certainties already:
Cook, Stoneman, Root, Malan
Bairstow
Stokes, Ali, Woakes
Anderson, Broad, Roland-Jones, Wood
So, they need one more batsman for the Test XI, a reserve, a spare keeper, and then whatever spare spinners and seamers they want to take.
I think the keeper will be Foakes, and Bayliss has more or less said Hales will be one of the batsmen. If there is a second spinner, it'll be Crane, because Rashid will not be a positive influence carrying drinks for three months, and another seamer would be a toss up between Ball and Overton (tall, horses for courses pick).
The last batting slot is interesting. Westley might have dragged it out of the fire, but they will also talk about Hameed, Vince and Ballance.
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Superb! :) this will get the forum talking and it's healthy to have different views.
Lots of debate on here on different threads and Ian bell. One of my favourite players and a class act.
His time has gone thou I think. Shame he seemed to lose motivation after being dropped by England.
In my book thou.....a wonderful player.
If Bell had Collingwood's sense of fight, this wopuldn't be the worst bet. But I think he might find himself mentally disintegrated pretty quickly...
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There are probably twelve certainties already:
Cook, Stoneman, Root, Malan
Bairstow
Stokes, Ali, Woakes
Anderson, Broad, Roland-Jones, Wood
So, they need one more batsman for the Test XI, a reserve, a spare keeper, and then whatever spare spinners and seamers they want to take.
I think the keeper will be Foakes, and Bayliss has more or less said Hales will be one of the batsmen. If there is a second spinner, it'll be Crane, because Rashid will not be a positive influence carrying drinks for three months, and another seamer would be a toss up between Ball and Overton (tall, horses for courses pick).
The last batting slot is interesting. Westley might have dragged it out of the fire, but they will also talk about Hameed, Vince and Ballance.
Mark wood is never a guarantee as he can't stay fit, he hasn't even taken many wickets in div 2.
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If Bell had Collingwood's sense of fight, this wopuldn't be the worst bet. But I think he might find himself mentally disintegrated pretty quickly...
Bell was never that sort of player, it was all Too easy at his best. He got some 'harder' runs towards the end of his career but agree didn't show it thru most of it. In comparison with westley and Malan...well there just Isn't one
Good squad thou manor , you wrong about Wood thou, he is not fit and has ankle problems. I. Afraid he will not be the player we all want him to be.
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Bayliss said there won't be new names. Doesn't this suggest Foakes won't be going?
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Bayliss said there won't be names. Doesn't this suggest Foakes won't be going?
Presumtion you meant "no new names" (as this is what bayliss said).
Which to me means buttler is the spare keeper.
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If Bell had Collingwood's sense of fight, this wopuldn't be the worst bet. But I think he might find himself mentally disintegrated pretty quickly...
The management didn't have a clue how to manage and motivate him, in my opinion. Averages 50+ at five, 60 at six yet insisted on taking the vice captaincy off him, which was perfect for him and kept on pressuring him to bat at 3. Stick to player's strengths, they'd have got an extra two years out of him and he'd have been ready for an Ashes swansong.
He was never the KP, Ponting type to dominate teams and be larger than life. But he was a senior pro that, had he been man managed effectively, could be part of a line up that would have allowed Root to bat 3 or 4. Fit numbers two and four around those guys and our Ashes line up would have looked far stronger.
I think after losing the vice captaincy his head went and its clear now he lacks the motivation and desire. I absolutely agree that he couldn't have done any worse than Compton, Westley, Malan, etc over the last two years or so. But he's done now...
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Presumtion you meant "no new names" (as this is what bayliss said).
Which to me means buttler is the spare keeper.
Hope not, would be a bit of farce taking someone that has played about 5 first class games in the last couple of years, 3 of which have been this year and he's averaging 17. Foakes is the standout candidate and I believe he has trained with the test side already this year? But then again will he play any cricket if selected in the main squad?
Probably not
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Swann also bigged Hales up on radio saying something along the lines of 'hes not the smartesr bloke but he realised he was trying to be a test cricketer when he doesnt have the technique for it, and now hes scoring runs for fun'
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Hope not, would be a bit of farce taking someone that has played about 5 first class games in the last couple of years, 3 of which have been this year and he's averaging 17. Foakes is the standout candidate and I believe he has trained with the test side already this year? But then again will he play any cricket if selected in the main squad?
Probably not
He played 3 tests in India last winter and averaged around 40.
That's much better than jennings, Westley malan etc have been doing recently.
Last summer bayliss wanted him as a batsmen, selectors said no, so he took him to India as spare keeper and played him as a batsmen.
Reckon that will be bayliss plan this year, spare keeper and more likely batsman if the newbs do as bad as they have done this summer.
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I can't actually believe anyone on this forum has butler as the second keeper, he simply does not play enough long form cricket, and he is about to sign for another 2020 tournament.
2 years ago yes we could of had bairstow as a batter o lay and butler keeping-but it didn't go that way. Bairstow is improving and Jos is a one day King.
Bayliss does not pick the team on his own, I'd be staggered if butler is chosen not playing the right form of the game. Ben Foakes looks favourite to me
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A friend of mine was chatting with Colin Graves at Lords the other day. During the conversation Graves indicated that Ballance will be in the squad for the ashes as they think his back foot game will be suited to quick Aussie decks.
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I can't actually believe anyone on this forum has butler as the second keeper, he simply does not play enough long form cricket, and he is about to sign for another 2020 tournament.
2 years ago yes we could of had bairstow as a batter o lay and butler keeping-but it didn't go that way. Bairstow is improving and Jos is a one day King.
Bayliss does not pick the team on his own, I'd be staggered if butler is chosen not playing the right form of the game. Ben Foakes looks favourite to me
Its not about what people think, it's about what bayliss has said.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41213905 (http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41213905)
No new faces.
Players that have played in the last 12 to 18months.
Foakes hasn't played a test yet, never mind in that period, so how can he be favourite?
He may well be the right call, but..........
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A friend of mine was chatting with Colin Graves at Lords the other day. During the conversation Graves indicated that Ballance will be in the squad for the ashes as they think his back foot game will be suited to quick Aussie decks.
...and he'll have aussie quicks queuing up to bowl full and straight at the speed of light to him. Please, anyone but Ballance...
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I actually think they'll start with cook, stoneman, jennings, root, malan, stokes, bairstow, ali.
Hardly strauss, cook trott, kp, bell, collingwood, prior is it?!
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Presumtion you meant "no new names" (as this is what bayliss said).
Which to me means buttler is the spare keeper.
Yes, I did. Sorry!
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...and he'll have aussie quicks queuing up to bowl full and straight at the speed of light to him. Please, anyone but Ballance...
My mate told me that he spent about 20 minutes trying to tell Graves that Ballance is as much of a nailed on LBW candidate as Westley and that neither of them should go on the plane. Apparently Graves couldn't be dissuaded from Ballance though.
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Saw Graham Thorpe deep in conversation with Andrew Gale today. Would have loved to have been listening in.
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I quite liked Shane Warne's squad, if anyone saw it? I doubt Mason Crane's really ready, though.
First post of this thread . :D
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If Adelaide ends up being a green pitch to preserve the pink ball, I would like to see Lyon sit out that test . If Maxwell plays at 6 he can bowl a few overs of offies and James Pattinson can come into the side , so oz can have a crack using all of the 'big four'. It would be exciting to see Starc , Hazlewood, Cummins, Pattinson all in the same attack .
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First post of this thread . :D
Sorry, I arrived late!
Buzz's second post is probably moe realistic, even with his selection of Foakes.
17:
Cook, Stoneman, Ballance (or Westley), Root, Malan, Hales.
Bairstow, Buttler.
Stokes, Ali, Woakes.
Anderson, Broad, Roland-Jones, Wood, Dawson, Ball.
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If Adelaide ends up being a green pitch to preserve the pink ball, I would like to see Lyon sit out that test . If Maxwell plays at 6 he can bowl a few overs of offies and James Pattinson can come into the side , so oz can have a crack using all of the 'big four'. It would be exciting to see Starc , Hazlewood, Cummins, Pattinson all in the same attack .
Based on past records surely one of them is bound to end up crocked before then ;)
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Based on past records surely one of them is bound to end up crocked before then ;)
Yeah , you're right about that..... even a.t.m only Cummins , of the four , is fit.
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Foakes giving the selectors a timely reminder that he can bat.
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when does sanga qualify?
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when does sanga qualify?
Can't think in recent years a more fantastic overseas player for Surrey or anyone
Fantastic player
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I think Westley and Dawson are a waste of the cost of airline tickets ! Make them sit at home and pay for a Sky Sports subscription!
Won't they then need to buy a BT Sports subscription?! :D :(
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Won't they then need to buy a BT Sports subscription?! :D :(
Oh whoops , aussie making an english pay tv presumption. If sky dont show it isn't their commitment to cricket a bit lacking ?
"Sky Sports 2/Cricket .... the home of cricket. Unless its overseas , and the biggest test rivalry on the planet ,and we didn't bother getting the rights" .
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Oh whoops , aussie making an english pay tv presumption. If sky dont show it isn't their commitment to cricket a bit lacking ?
"Sky Sports 2/Cricket .... the home of cricket. Unless its overseas , and the biggest test rivalry on the planet ,and we didn't bother getting the rights" .
BT went behind Sky's back and did a deal direct with Cricket Australia to have the exclusive rights to all of Australia's home tests & BBL. This deal then effects Sky's deal with the ECB to show all England tests as BT Sport have the exclusive rights with the host broadcaster.
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^ cue the playing of the world's smallest violin for Sky Sports...
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BT went behind Sky's back and did a deal direct with Cricket Australia to have the exclusive rights to all of Australia's home tests & BBL. This deal then effects Sky's deal with the ECB to show all England tests as BT Sport have the exclusive rights with the host broadcaster.
Wow , that's some seriously Machiavellien manoeuvring by bt there !
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BT went behind Sky's back and did a deal direct with Cricket Australia to have the exclusive rights to all of Australia's home tests & BBL. This deal then effects Sky's deal with the ECB to show all England tests as BT Sport have the exclusive rights with the host broadcaster.
Im not sure it really counts as "going behind Sky's backs" there are usually invitation to tender notices sent out for things like this, i suspect BT offered more money than Sky did presumably off the back of trying to disrupt the next domestic cricket rights bidding too. Not sure how long BT's deal is for but will be interesting to see if they try to retain these rights if they havent cracked the domestic market.
Does make me wonder how Sky think they can fill an entire cricket channel throughout the winter, i know they have a raft of their own produced content with the masterclasses and what not but can see the cricket channel being very repetitive over the next few months!
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i was under the impression both bt ans sky will be covering the ashes as the both have deals?
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i was under the impression both bt ans sky will be covering the ashes as the both have deals?
If they do I cant see many people choosing BT over sky if they have both packages!
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sky have highlights like in 05 I think but BT have live rights
may be wrong though
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From memory the BT deal is for 4 years (about £60m) and includes exclusive live access to the 2017/18 Ashes, Big Bash plus the women's Ashes and T20 comp. It was an open tender and BT bid more than Sky who had just committed a ridiculous amount for the football.
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Ah fair enough! Glad I have both BT and sky!
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Just read that australias domestic season will include 1st round shield games with a pink ball , and all shield games after xmas (2nd half of season) will be using a dukes .
Would it have been a good idea for the last few county championship rounds to have been played with a kookaburra ? Has this been done before ?
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england squad to be announced before the next odi at the oval
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Just read that australias domestic season will include 1st round shield games with a pink ball , and all shield games after xmas (2nd half of season) will be using a dukes .
Would it have been a good idea for the last few county championship rounds to have been played with a kookaburra ? Has this been done before ?
No but its a good idea, play and practice with everything ever will use.
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A friend of mine was chatting with Colin Graves at Lords the other day. During the conversation Graves indicated that Ballance will be in the squad for the ashes as they think his back foot game will be suited to quick Aussie decks.
He should be he did far better against Morkel and Co than his Replacements against the Windes but he needs to bat at five also because he bats ugly doesn't help his case.
Bulk of the bowling will be done by seamers but can't see England with an attack that has little variation taking 20 wickets to win unless the ball moves around for the king of swing.
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I don't mind Ballance playing! I just think he is not a number 3 batsman. Batting at 5 he would be fine......but not at 3.
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He should be he did far better against Morkel and Co than his Replacements against the Windes but he needs to bat at five also because he bats ugly doesn't help his case.
Shame his only test match in Australia was batting at 5 and got out LBW and ct behind off Lyon.
His other 2 appearances v Australia were Bowled and Ct behind and LBW and ct behind.
Think they already have a plan to him. It wont be bowling short.
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Rowland-Jones has a stress fracture of the back. Certainly rules him out of the Ashes...
That is a gutter. Feel for the bloke
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Gutted for TRJ. Finn took a timely 8fer to remind the selectors he's still playing.
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I don't mind Ballance playing! I just think he is not a number 3 batsman. Batting at 5 he would be fine......but not at 3.
ballnace will be at 3 though, malan has done enough at 5 to stay there its westley who needed the runs and didnt get them unless we go in with an unchanged batting order! bayliss has said 1 game too many better than 1 game too few!
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Finch to replace Maxwell?
I know Maxwell bowls a bit but if you're picking No. 6/7 pinch hitters...
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ballnace will be at 3 though, malan has done enough at 5 to stay there its westley who needed the runs and didnt get them unless we go in with an unchanged batting order! bayliss has said 1 game too many better than 1 game too few!
Yes he probably will but batting at 3 he will struggle against the quicker ball.
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Have any forum members managed to get tickets?
I fly to Perth for days 3&4 of that Test then have day 1&2 tickets for Melbourne
Will be in Sydney when the 5th Test is on so might also try and aquire tickets for that one.
Then I have ODI tickets for Brisbane, Adelaide and Sydney
If anyone fancies meeting up for a Fosters (Australian culture) get in touch. I am excessively generous at the bar when England win and even moderately when they lose so cash in!
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Finch to replace Maxwell?
I know Maxwell bowls a bit but if you're picking No. 6/7 pinch hitters...
No , please no . Even Cartwright, who's only been around for a couple years, scores more shield runs than Finch. Finch gets dropped from the vics shield side every now and then.....he's not the man , not by a long shot .
Why would you pick a 'pinch hitter' for a test match anyway ?
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No , please no . Even Cartwright, who's only been around for a couple years, scores more shield runs than Finch. Finch gets dropped from the vics shield side every now and then.....he's not the man , not by a long shot .
Why would you pick a 'pinch hitter' for a test match anyway ?
I was going to ask you about this.
From an Aussie viewpoint what do you think your side will be.
It looks like your top 5 are pretty nailed on (unlike ours!) But the no. 6 spit is very open?
Wade will probably keep the gloves.
Lyon will play, so it will be 3 quicks and fitness depending I would think it would be Starc, Hazelwood and Cummins?
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According to the times, Vince will be on the plane, and Craig overton will be there as a replacement for TRJ
the vince selection, if it is correct, would be a massive step back, hes hardly done anything this year worthy of a call up!
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I was going to ask you about this.
From an Aussie viewpoint what do you think your side will be.
It looks like your top 5 are pretty nailed on (unlike ours!) But the no. 6 spit is very open?
Wade will probably keep the gloves.
Lyon will play, so it will be 3 quicks and fitness depending I would think it would be Starc, Hazelwood and Cummins?
Yep , i think you're right .
The only possible changes are cartwright/ m.marsh for maxwell ( i think maxwell will stay , although cartwright could come in at sydney allowing us to drop a paceman for agar ), and one could make a claim for nevill taking over from wade . Wade has been very poor with the bat since his return whereas nevill has been in good nick .
But , the xl for brisbane will likely be : Renshaw, warner , khawaja, smith, handsomb, maxwell, wade, starc, cummins, lyon, hazlewood.
Pretty much settled unless someone has a freakishly good/bad start to the shield season .
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Yep , i think you're right .
The only possible changes are cartwright/ m.marsh for maxwell ( i think maxwell will stay , although cartwright could come in at sydney allowing us to drop a paceman for agar ), and one could make a claim for nevill taking over from wade . Wade has been very poor with the bat since his return whereas nevill has been in good nick .
But , the xl for brisbane will likely be : Renshaw, warner , khawaja, smith, handsomb, maxwell, wade, starc, cummins, lyon, hazlewood.
Pretty much settled unless someone has a freakishly good/bad start to the shield season .
Having said that , the xl's I'd like to see are :
Brisbane: Renshaw, warner, khawaja, smith, handsomb, maxwell, carey, starc, cummins, lyon, hazlewood
Adelaide : Renshaw, warner, khawaja, smith, handsomb, maxwell, carey, Pattinson, starc, cummins, hazlewood
Perth : same as Adelaide
Melbourne : same as brisbane
Sydney : Renshaw, warner , khawaja, smith, handsomb, wade, agar, pattinson, starc,cummins, lyon,
Basically , brisbane and Melbourne we go with 3 pace/1 spin/1 part time spin attack. Adelaide and perth we go a 4 man pace attack. Sydney we go 2 proper spinners with 3 proper pacers ... we bolster the batting by selecting the 3 pacers who bat best , our (theoretically ) best keeper batsman and a spinner who can bat 7 .
Obviously , most of this would never happen...particularly the selection of carey as keeper .
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From and England XI, it feels like Stoneman has done well enough to get the number 2 slot.
Also Malan, Ballance or Hales may be marked for number 5. But neither Jennings nor Westley have taken their chances in the top order!
I suspect that Hameed will be looked at for number 3 slot next season and going forward. But maybe the selectors are looking at seeing who they think could play there on the types of tracks and bowling in the Ashes?
If they are not taking Westley on the plane, and they are looking for someone with Test experience to bat at 3, then I wouldn't take Vince. He is a class player for Hampshire but averages 19 in the 7 International Tests he has played.
If you are looking to play someone at number 3 who has been on decent form this season then either Robson or Hales could surely bat at 3? Robson has played the same amount of International Tests as Vince but averages over 30 with a 50 and a century to his name! And Hales has opened and averages 27 with 5 50s!
Should be an interesting selection announcement this week anyway!!
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I find it really interesting that both sides have completely different selection issues.
AUS have a settled top 5 and ours is all over the place.
AUS can't find/decide on a no.6/allrounder and we have enough Allrounders to fill an MPV.
AUS have possible keeper issues and we have one of the best in the world.
It should make for a fascinating series.
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According to the times, Vince will be on the plane, and Craig overton will be there as a replacement for TRJ
the vince selection, if it is correct, would be a massive step back, hes hardly done anything this year worthy of a call up!
Yes it would it would also highlight England's selection limitations.
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Don't really agree with the Hales covers two bases idea as Hales in tests average not good against the quicker bowlers
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Westley just had to leave the field after taking a blow to the thumb.....
Every cricket journo I follow has just jumped all over it
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Hales in tests average not good against the quicker bowlers
He wasn't exactly playing his natural game! I think that was his downfall, if he's have been aggressive up top he'd have been much more successful
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Hales may be in with a shout in the number 5 position I reckon with balance and interestingly mentioned above ..James Vince
Not sure if England will go back to balance it looks a close call between a couple of players
I know Westley is in the team now but he hasn't done enough for me...I would play malan at 5
But that leaves the number 3 spot not nailed down ?
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He wasn't exactly playing his natural game! I think that was his downfall, if he's have been aggressive up top he'd have been much more successful
Yep in tests he looked as if he was unsure to block or hit out.
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Westley just had to leave the field after taking a blow to the thumb.....
Every cricket journo I follow has just jumped all over it
The blow to the hand did look pretty bad, but to be fair the main reason he left the field was because he was out! Think that rules him out by the looks of it. Please not Vince though, the Aussie slip cordon will be rubbing their hands already.
Link to Westley clip : https://twitter.com/CountyChamp/status/912277383016849408
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With regard to the number three spot guess the Hales covers two bases thinking ( test and ODI ) leaves room for an extra batsman to tour.
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Hales may be in with a shout in the number 5 position I reckon with balance and interestingly mentioned above ..James Vince
Not sure if England will go back to balance it looks a close call between a couple of players
I know Westley is in the team now but he hasn't done enough for me...I would play malan at 5
But that leaves the number 3 spot not nailed down ?
Vaughan has been pushing him too. I’m not sure why other than they share the same management company
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While vince has obviously not done alot in the county championship, I thought he had the ability and just needed to Sort out his shot selection. Easier to sort out than poor technique and lack of ability.
When you look back and dropping Robson, Hales and Compton, i feel We should have stuck with them. They would have scored at least as many runs as their replacements and by now they would be established players. Sometimes i think we are looking for the new Cook / Stokes / Root. Ok to have some average batters who average late 30's. If there is nothing better available then why keep changing?
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Looking at the possibility that there are up to 2 vacancies in our top order - let us consider the 'form' players in first classe cricket.
Qualifying, leading run scorers in both divisions include:
Burns
Browne (Essex)
Balance
Davis (Lancs)
Robson
Wells
Denly
Northeast
Clarke (Worcs)
Patel
Would any of the those be worth parachuting into the squad?
For me - Sam Robson, Samit Patel and Sam Northeast would all have the requisite balance of talent and experience. But are any of them in with even a remote chance?
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I agree with your analysis. Robson is a better bet for reserve opener than Jennings.
Samit would be my spin/batsman in case Ali goes down with chicken pox.
Northeast is like Hildreth, too many good runs scored under the pretence it's all a bit too easy wherever they bat.
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Yep I reckon you've smashed nail right ont head there Fattus, I'd take at least two of those and probably all 3.
Quick squad check...
Bankers:
Batters - Cook, Root
All-rounders - Stokes, Ali
Keepers - YJB
Bowlers - Woakes, Broad, Anderson
Highly likely:
Batters - Stoneman, Malan
Keepers - Foakes
Which is 4 batsmen, 2 all-rounders, 2 keepers and 3 seamers = 11 players.
Assuming the usual 17 man squad, that leaves 6 spots. Need a no3, backup spinner, at least one spare batsman and at least two seamers. Who are you picking CBF?
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I think I'm taking Robson, Samit Patel and Plunkett for sure. Then probably Overton and Northeast. Last spot goes to another contender for the top 3, I'm just not sure who!
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Cook
Hameed
Stoneman
Root
Hales
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
Foakes,Malan,Plunkett,Rashid,Robson and A Nother.
Pretty worried about our bowling line up, it’s all a bit samey. Which is why I’d be tempted to take a left arm spinner or seamer so Patel or leach. No great left arm seamers come to mind? Most teams have one these days e.g Starc,Amir,Boult etc
Hopefully it will be Sam curran in a couple of years time.
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Fat cat has thrown a rock into CBF selection and if we need 6 players we are in trouble against the old enemy.
Thank god all there bowlers are crocked , they only have 2 batsmen smith and Warner, and their keeper is no good. :)
I'm taking plunkett he has pace and if it gets tasty he looks very much like he punches first and asks questions later.
Wood cannot go, he cannot string two tests together, I'm sorry for all the Wood fans (I'm one too) but it's Simon Jones all over again.....if you can dine on one series the Welshman takes the biscuit bowling Clarke as he shoulders arms in 2005. Get in !! :)
Sorry got sidetracked in nostalgia.
Plunkett in, jake ball in even thou someone said he has turned into a turd, I've seen him live he's got pace and height.
Second spinner Crane for me, unproven but cannot see him playing more than one test in Oz
Batting causes me headaches, I don't think Westley is ready/good enough, hameed has paper hands, back to Ballance?
Hmmm...I think big Pete mentioned James Vince, I think I will take him and hope he has grown a brain, he's got the shots but you can't play them all thru the covers at once.
Stoneman goes, Foakes as back up keeper, Malan starts the tests for me, bit surprised but he has something about him
Apart from that I don't know
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Oh for a Chris Tremlett-style automaton.
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And, with the greatest respect @ppccopener anyone picking Mason Crane needs a lie down in a darkened room.
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Oh for a Chris Tremlett-style automaton.
6'8" automatons built like a brick proverbial who bowl rapid lifters for England in Ashes tests are very much the best kind of automatons.
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Ashes 2017-18: England squad - as chosen by BBC Sport users - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41366988 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41366988)
No Vince and no Overton as options with this poll, both are being tipped as surprise inclusions. Vince looked classy but loved a soft dismissal-has much changed? His numbers aren't great this year. I have a feeling Hales will miss out, due to being susceptible against the short ball, eg:
https://youtu.be/Nxzg_yMnVYk (https://youtu.be/Nxzg_yMnVYk)
Root does well at 3 in the odi's, but seemingly won't do it....
I fear it will be a shootout between Ballance or Vince.
Who would I go for? I have no idea,I'm as confused as our selectors...
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And, with the greatest respect @ppccopener anyone picking Mason Crane needs a lie down in a darkened room.
I can't think of anyone else apart from Samit and if we are not taking him as the third spinner in India he's not getting a gig.
I'm going with Crane ....Leach??? :)
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6'8" automatons built like a brick proverbial who bowl rapid lifters for England in Ashes tests are very much the best kind of automatons.
Tremlett came close to the boundary when we were at lorda s couple of years back and I thought it was one human on top of another human and moulded together.
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I do like Vince but just think that there are people on better form!
Top order:
Cook, Stoneman, Robson, Root,
Hales, Malan, Ballance
All Rounders:
Stokes, Ali
Keepers:
Foakes, Bairstow
Bowlers:
Woakes, Broad, Anderson, Plunkett, Finn
Rashid
No Hameed or TRJ due to injuries!
No Crane as he is not ready, and needs more experience!
Finn for his height.
Starting XI would be:
Cook, Stoneman, Robson, Root, Malan, Stokes, Bairstow, Ali, Woakes, Broad, Anderson.
Would prefer Hales at 5 but Malan has the slot at the moment.
As I said, number 3 is my biggest concern - Robson would be next on my list. But as they are pretty unlikely to consider taking him, I would rather see Vince at 3 than Seeing Ballance bat there!
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@ppccopener ..... oz have only 2 batsmen ? No , we have 3 and a half ! Khawaja is good enough on home tracks ( the half ) . English ashes observers gear up to witness the arrival of Peter Handscomb. He will have a big series . You heard it here first . :)
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And, with the greatest respect @ppccopener anyone picking Mason Crane needs a lie down in a darkened room.
Agree with PPOpener He may not play but England to take Crane for the experience
Now its time for that darkened room.
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I kind of agree about Crane - didn't he play in Aus last season as the overseas and was fantastic?
But still think that Rashid deserves to go. He is a leggie which means something different from Ali and Root. Plus he has generally bowled well and taken wickets - plus as a bonus he is a very handy batsman down the order.
Crane will get his chance in the next year or two. Just don't think there is any need to rush him in yet. Send him over with the Lions as backup if need be though!
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If we are going to take a rookie leggie, what about this guy?!
http://m.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/653695.html (http://m.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/653695.html)
https://youtu.be/juzb1HJmElg (https://youtu.be/juzb1HJmElg)
We have a pretty poor record with treatment of our leggies-
Salisbury,Schofield, Rashid,Borthwick,all have been messed about imo- I think it would be a brave move to give Crane a go,of all places in Australia! Botham has been championing Leach,why is he not discussed-is it because he bowls in glasses and has dodgy teeth?! Vettori wore glasses and was pretty decent!!
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Take a look at the delivery parkinson got stoneman with yesterday https://twitter.com/LancsCCC/status/912284070108962819. (https://twitter.com/LancsCCC/status/912284070108962819.) "whadda ripper" (warne accent)
Parkinson wont go though imo.
If they take one I think it will be Crane, had a decent time in Aus by all accounts and was first player not from there to play 1st class cricket in 32 years.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/39193715 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/39193715) he will only play at sydney I'm sure.
Personally, I think Leach deserves a crack though as 2nd spinner, not sure what more he can do to get a gig.
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Im guessing England still think Leach chucks it
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Didn't he have a pretty stinky Lions tour last winter also?
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Take a look at the delivery parkinson got stoneman with yesterday https://twitter.com/LancsCCC/status/912284070108962819. (https://twitter.com/LancsCCC/status/912284070108962819.) "whadda ripper" (warne accent)
Should be not out as it is a back foot no ball.
I don't understand why Bess doesn't get a look in as a spinner.
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Should be not out as it is a back foot no ball.
You think? I thought the camera was at a slight angle (offset to the right at bowlers end) giving it the look as a back foot no-ball.
Alex Davies in the runs again,had a great season, most runs and 2nd in keeper dismissals. If Foakes is in the squad, not seen enough to know how good he is, surely Davies is in the lions?
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Guardian think a couple are already selected(do they take a guess or really have inside info?)
Recalls for for ballance and Vince. I like both players myself I know some on here don't rate them, ballance can tough it out old fashioned style and you need o e or two in a test series who can do that and Vince has serious talent. Does he have a brain thou? Because you cannot get out the same way all the time. If you morphed Vince and gaz maybe that's perfect.
Jake ball and Overton in according the the papers.
But that's all insignificant, yes it matters not.
Whatever has happened on the Bristol night out is yet to be found out for sure,it may be serious it may not be. To me Stokes looks in a bundle of trouble.
But from purely a cricket point of view, can we replace him? I don't think anyone comes close and having grown up with Botham in my opinion he is as good as him. We need him in the side.
But if he can't go who would be picked instead? I would think we would have to drop a batsman and play the extra bowler maybe with bairstow moving up the order?
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His former partner in crime and fellow overly aggressive allrounder Matt Coles. Absolutely guaranteed to get in no trouble whatsover in Australia...
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But that's all insignificant, yes it matters not.
Whatever has happened on the Bristol night out is yet to be found out for sure,it may be serious it may not be. To me Stokes looks in a bundle of trouble.
I hate to but o agree here! I'm not sure the ecb would let hales back unless it was serious bother he must be the only witness that stokes can rely on! Anyway back you the point to replace stokes is nigh on impossible,
Without him for me woakes is the alrounder and bats at six!
Stokes is probably our most aggressive and quickest bowler so that needs replacing, if go for plunkett
Without benny and taking into all the roumors and hearsay I'd pick:
Cook
Stoneman
Root
Robson
Malan
Woakes
Bairstow
Ali
Plunkett
Broad
Anderson
And take
westley
Crane
Vince
Overton
Buttler
Ballance
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I hate to but o agree here! I'm not sure the ecb would let hales back unless it was serious bother he must be the only witness that stokes can rely on! Anyway back you the point to replace stokes is nigh on impossible,
Without him for me woakes is the alrounder and bats at six!
Stokes is probably our most aggressive and quickest bowler so that needs replacing, if go for plunkett
Without benny and taking into all the roumors and hearsay I'd pick:
Cook
Stoneman
Root
Robson
Malan
Woakes
Bairstow
Ali
Plunkett
Broad
Anderson
And take
westley
Crane
Vince
Overton
Buttler
Ballance
Robson is purely gut instinct
If not have vince or ballance anywhere near my squad I'd take foakes and hales instead of those, tell root he is batting at 3 malan 4 hales 5 stokes obviously 6 (if able) then a bowling attack of 4 seamers stokes woakes broad Anderson and Ali as the spinner
I get the feeling that this is going to be a horrific ashes series for us and Bayliss won't be around much longer! I hope I'm wrong and we end up nicking a 2-1 win!
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I will be absolutely devastated if Stokes is out of the Ashes! Been drooling over the thought of seeing him take on Starc and Cummins at Perth
Someone find out the name of the other guy involved in Bristol - time for some Corleone style witness intimidation
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It could be except that the Aussies have there own problems.
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It could be except that the Aussies have there own problems.
Stokes is a big player, the Aussies if they can get Cummins,Starc and Patterson fit are a good attack. Lyon is decent despite some bad press on CBF! :)
There is not enough quality either side for it to be real quality, it looks pretty even to me
If we are without Stokes, that would be a huge blow. Australia are no mugs and it's hard to win over there as history proves
It could be a tight series...
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It could be except that the Aussies have there own problems.
I'm not sure their best 11 is still up for debate in the same way as ours, but...
Looking at the lineup who played their last test:
M T Renshaw
D A Warner
S P D Smith*
P S P Handscomb
G J Maxwell
H W R Cartwright
M S Wade+
A C Agar
P J Cummins
S N J O'Keefe
N M Lyon
They're unlikely to play 3 spinners for the first Test, so Agar and O'keefe are likely to make way.
This leaves Gary the Goat as the front line spinner, with Big Show Maxwell there to send down some part time offies.
Should Maxwell make the final XI though? A few seem to think there are better alternatives.
I'm not sure on the fitness of the Aussie seamers, so this is a guess, but I think Starc and Hazlewood are likely to come in.
Having not seen much of Cartwright, I cannot really comment on how cemented his place is. He looks most likely to make way for Usman Khawaja, who has a great record at home. This then leaves the question as to where he slots into the order, in at 4 or does Smith move down?
I anticipate their lineup will be something like, those in italics the players who's spot isn't nailed down:
M Renshaw
D Warner
U Khawaja
S Smith*
P Handscomb
G Maxwell
M Wade+
M Starc
P J Cummins
J Hazlewood
N M Lyon
The biggest question mark over that side then looks to be Wade.
Has he done anything (other than shout "nice Gary") since his return that justifies him above Nevil?
Does Nevil come back into the side, does Hanscomb get the gloves or is there another keeper waiting in the wings?
Their issues don't seem as severe as our, but the series could be a lot closer than some people are anticipating.
I'm confident England will avoid another whitewash, at least! :-[
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Squad is apparently:
Cook,
Stoneman,
Vince,
Root (capt),
Malan,
Ballance,
Stokes,
Bairstow (wkt),
Foakes (wkt),
Moeen,
Crane,
Woakes,
Broad,
Anderson,
Ball,
C.Overton.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/cricket/4554082/england-ashes-squad-james-vince-handed-shock-place-in-side-with-ben-stokes-also-included/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/cricket/4554082/england-ashes-squad-james-vince-handed-shock-place-in-side-with-ben-stokes-also-included/)
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A lot depends on the first test.
Both sides have some world class players and also some major gaps or question marks, s such that at the moment it looks like a battle between our middle order and their Seam attack.
If we go to the Gabba and lose, it is really hard to see a way back. If we win or draw, it gets easier as Adelaide could favour us, and Melbourne cancels out Perth (assuming the WACA - on a drop in we may be quids in).
So, for me, it's 4 or 5-0 or 2-2.
Big call on selection tomorrow. If the press are right and it's Vince, Ballance, Ball, Overton I'm skeptical.
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I hate to but o agree here! I'm not sure the ecb would let hales back unless it was serious bother he must be the only witness that stokes can rely on! Anyway back you the point to replace stokes is nigh on impossible,
Without him for me woakes is the alrounder and bats at six!
Stokes is probably our most aggressive and quickest bowler so that needs replacing, if go for plunkett
Without benny and taking into all the roumors and hearsay I'd pick:
Cook
Stoneman
Root
Robson
Malan
Woakes
Bairstow
Ali
Plunkett
Broad
Anderson
And take
westley
Crane
Vince
Overton
Buttler
Ballance
If Woakes is picked to bat ahead of YJB the so world has gone mad
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A lot depends on the first test.
Both sides have some world class players and also some major gaps or question marks, s such that at the moment it looks like a battle between our middle order and their Seam attack.
If we go to the Gabba and lose, it is really hard to see a way back. If we win or draw, it gets easier as Adelaide could favour us, and Melbourne cancels out Perth (assuming the WACA - on a drop in we may be quids in).
So, for me, it's 4 or 5-0 or 2-2.
Big call on selection tomorrow. If the press are right and it's Vince, Ballance, Ball, Overton I'm skeptical.
I think the press are right, Malan has the spot in the middle order at the moment. Slightly surprised about Vince but he's a good player with potential.
hales had a case(presuming he is out) but it's about the best we could do. Rashid finished in test match cricket for sure now.
I think we will only play one spinner Really in all matches thou, maybe Sydney is the only track to play 2....hope Mo don't get injured...or get in trouble :)
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I'd really like to see another all-rounder in at 5, someone who can bat but bowl a bit (6th bowler). Just not sure who that could be. Otherwise a Ballance/Hales/Malan choice.
I'd really like to see Robson at 3, or open at Stoneman 3 as Root wants 4.
Shame TRJ got injured, hope he's fit again soon.
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For those who like stats, this BBC article gives an excellent table comparing the hopefuls!
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41404874 (http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41404874)
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Vaughan and ISM using their influence again
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Oh no... Vince struggles with the step up from div 2 of the county championship to div 1, never mind test cricket! If that selection's been made then it really has all gone wrong.
edit: the ECB media mouthpiece, aka the Telegraph, is reporting the same. Vince at 3 and Malan 5 it is then. Never mind, at least when Vince fails we'll have... Gary 'but there's nothing wrong with my technique' Ballance! Can see Foakes getting a debut this winter.
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Hand me my noose
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According to aggers the squad has been leaked
Root, Cook, Stoneman, Malan, Ballance, Vince, Moeen, Crane, Foakes, Bairstow, Stokes, Woakes, Broad, Anderson, Ball, Overton.
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Yes and you would presume Malan stays in the same position Vince or Ballance at 3. I don’t think Gaz is a number 3 bat more like 5....
Or... :) Root moves up to take the trouble spot which he should imo
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Basically we have a heap of 4/5's and nobody comfortable at 3 other than the skipper who doesn't like it.
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FFS don't mind the bowling but Balance really?
He's proved time and time and time again he cannot cut it at the top level, he may score thousands of championship runs but he gets found out every time at international level and refuses to change
May as well play with 10 rather than pick him, can't believe no Hales unless this weeks events have poo pood that
Got to be Roots call to get his mate in as no other considerable reason he should be near the side. Then again maybe he makes the nest squash in the world ever?
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The way I look at it, Ballance has proved that he is no good batting at 3. As Root is at 4, this means that he can only really bat at 5 or below.
But we already have Malan and Hales who can bat at 5? So why have three who can bat at 5?
Or maybe they are thinking that Hales has batted at 2 and may be ok as an alternate 3 batsman?
This would mean...
Cook
Stoneman
Vince or Hales
Root
Malan or Ballance
Stokes
etc!
I guess we will only find out in November!
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Basically we have a heap of 4/5's and nobody comfortable at 3 other than the skipper who doesn't like it.
Exactly I really really don't buy the issue with root at 3, he got 250 last time I saw him bat there
It reminds me of my club side where everyone wants to bat 5
Complete nonsense
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Are we still unable to have a press release without it being leaked first? ECB is a total shambles
On a side note, glad to see Foakes and Overton included - both well deserved. Probably won't see the field but good experience nonetheless.
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Are we still unable to have a press release without it being leaked first? ECB is a total shambles
On a side note, glad to see Foakes and Overton included - both well deserved. Probably won't see the field but good experience nonetheless.
The RFU are the same mate. Telegraph gets every story before other papers
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If Woakes is picked to bat ahead of YJB the so world has gone mad
The world has gone mad! I heard aggers on tms suggest woakes could open!
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The RFU are the same mate. Telegraph gets every story before other papers
At least it's the Torygraph - the best the ECB can do is the Sun!
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According to aggers the squad has been leaked
Root, Cook, Stoneman, Malan, Ballance, Vince, Moeen, Crane, Foakes, Bairstow, Stokes, Woakes, Broad, Anderson, Ball, Overton.
Crane in the squad ? Can i now come out of the darkened room.
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Exactly I really really don't buy the issue with root at 3, he got 250 last time I saw him bat there
It reminds me of my club side where everyone wants to bat 5
Complete nonsense
Read somewhere it's
more To do with the new ball.
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Ballance vince and ball have recalls, no mark wood
Overton, crane and foakes the uncapped players
Weak selections regarding the batting
Feeling pessimistic already
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Crane in and no recall for Rashid with the dearth of spinners we have.
I'm no Rashid fan, but there has to be some other reason other than ability that he's not even getting a mention - I'm guessing he's not Root and The Coach's sort of 'chap'.
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The definition of insanity - Gary Ballance doing the same thing over and over again and expecting not to get out bowled or lbw
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Well it's an interesting looking squad, if nothing else...
Joe Root (Yorkshire) captain
Moeen Ali (Worcestershire)
James Anderson (Lancashire)
Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire)
Jake Ball (Nottinghamshire)
Gary Ballance (Yorkshire)
Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire)
Alastair Cook (Essex)
Mason Crane (Hampshire)
Ben Foakes (Surrey)
Dawid Malan (Middlesex)
Craig Overton (Somerset)
Ben Stokes (Durham)
Mark Stoneman (Surrey)
James Vince (Hampshire)
Chris Woakes (Warwickshire)
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reading the live feed someone mentioned those recalled have done nothing to warrant inclusion, but the more i think of it, who has done something to warrant inclusion,
the ballance selection is just plain insulting to the fans, he has sown no desire to improve, keeps getting picked and getting out in the same manner without scoring large volumes of runs
but no point ranting over the same theme
good news is i think we can all agree that foakes does deserve the call up and could potentially get in the side on batting alone now we know the squad what would peoples starting 11 be?
Cook
Stoneman
????? itll be vince but id like root here foakes at 4
Root
malan
stokes
bairstow
ali
woakes
broad
anderson
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Vince and Ballance. End the suffering. Please.
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Vince and Ballance. End the suffering. Please.
With Vince at 3 snicking off early you may as well just cut out the middle man and put Root there, hadn't you?
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HORRIBLE squad.
If we aren’t picking players on form, why didn’t we pick Hameed to bat at 3! At least he has a bit of grit and determination about him!
Think I disagree with four of the selections. Ballance, Crance, Vince and Ball.
Overton is fair enough as I think I read out of the seamers to take 100 wickets in the last 3 seasons in the county championship, he has the best average.
Instead of the four selected that I disagree with I think I would’ve selected Plunkett, Rashid/Leach, Hameed and then another batsmen, probably Robson.
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Crane in and no recall for Rashid with the dearth of spinners we have.
I'm no Rashid fan, but there has to be some other reason other than ability that he's not even getting a mention - I'm guessing he's not Root and The Coach's sort of 'chap'.
Rashid bailed on Yorkshire's Championship decider vs Middlesex at the end of 2016 "because he was a bit tired". I think Root doesn't want him because of that.
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I'd go with Cook, Strauss, Trott, KP, Bell, Collingwood, Prior, Swann, Broad, Tremlett, Anderson.
Sorry.
Cook, Stoneman, Vince, Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Foakes, Moeen, Woakes, Broad, Anderson.
I've never been an advocate of moving YJB up, but they've picked a great keeper who can bat and I'm worried about having Stoneman, Vince and Malan in the top five.
The number three position will determine whethernwe win the Ashes or not.
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It's all very well saying the selectors got it wrong,it's a poor squad,etc etc, but the alternatives weren't great either...
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You would have thought Plunkett had a case to be included done nothing wrong experienced one of the fittest would get plenty of pace and bounce in oz.
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It's all very well saying the selectors got it wrong,it's a poor squad,etc etc, but the alternatives weren't great either...
Yes batting wise probably the best they could come up with.
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Cook, Stoneman, Vince, Root, Stokes, Bairstow, Foakes (wk), Moeen, Woakes, Broad, Anderson.
Bairstow is very capable in the field and can always step in to WK if Foakes is having a poor series.
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Cook, Stoneman, Vince, Root, Stokes, Bairstow, Foakes (wk), Moeen, Woakes, Broad, Anderson.
I would usually be one for leaving Bairstow at 7, but I agree that we may need to change the order a little!
Still unsure whether Stokes will want to move up to 5 - so Bairstow and Stokes at 5/6 (whichever way round suits them!)
But I still suspect they will want to keep Malan at 5, which means that there will be no place for Foakes, which would be a real shame!
Foakes defo as main keeper. Bairstow has improved but Foakes is an awesome keeper!
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When's the Lions party announced?
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as ive previously said i think foakes is a good selction but if we need a secondary keeper/batsman surely it has to be Alex Davies from lancs (playing devils advocate here)
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You would have thought Plunkett had a case to be included done nothing wrong experienced one of the fittest would get plenty of pace and bounce in oz.
@Seniorplayer Plunkett would likely be a better pick that Ball (who averages about 114 with the ball!) but his face doesn't seem to fit for some reason.
Looking at the seam options of Anderson, Broad, Ball, Overton, Stokes & Woakes there's nobody with anything to worry the Aussies. Someone like Plunkett or Wood with a bit of pace would add some variety to the attack. We seem to have picked a barrage of 80 odd MPH bowlers to put it on a spot for the Aussies to feast on! :(
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@Seniorplayer Plunkett would likely be a better pick that Ball (who averages about 114 with the ball!) but his face doesn't seem to fit for some reason.
Looking at the seam options of Anderson, Broad, Ball, Overton, Stokes & Woakes there's nobody with anything to worry the Aussies. Someone like Plunkett or Wood with a bit of pace would add some variety to the attack. We seem to have picked a barrage of 80 odd MPH bowlers to put it on a spot for the Aussies to feast on! :(
Yep as already written to samey unless the ball nips around for the king of swing to reverse it.
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Its a weak squad - with a very weak back up players on offer.
How Balance and Vince are selected is beyond me. Would have been better off sticking with Westley - and what about Burns from Surrey?
Bowling wise, what does Leach have to do to get selected?
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It is easy to criticise the squad, but as previously mentioned, the alternatives aren't there either -
Vince & Balance shouldn't be in there, but I couldn't select a 2 or 3 with enough experience and form to make the trip. Hameed is injured, I think I would've put Robson and Samit in instead of those two for a spare opener and a bit of batting experience.
I'm happy with Crane - why not, I don't think Leach operates well under pressure (last Lions tour) and Rashid is a bit of a liability
The seamers are much of a muchness, so I would've had Plunko over Ball - sadly there is no left armer making a case anywhere in the shires, and stop suggesting Wood - his body is not up to an Ashes series.
For me, it's a shaky squad and I would've changed about 4 of them. Pleased for Foakes though.
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@Seniorplayer Plunkett would likely be a better pick that Ball (who averages about 114 with the ball!) but his face doesn't seem to fit for some reason.
Looking at the seam options of Anderson, Broad, Ball, Overton, Stokes & Woakes there's nobody with anything to worry the Aussies. Someone like Plunkett or Wood with a bit of pace would add some variety to the attack. We seem to have picked a barrage of 80 odd MPH bowlers to put it on a spot for the Aussies to feast on! :(
Plunkett and Overton would’ve been the pack up seamers for me. Overton isn’t exactly slow either and can put the ball in the right areas consistently and Plunkett just seems to take wickets wherever he is. Baffles me that we didn’t select him, especially as he’s probably one of the fittest bowlers in the country.
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Its a weak squad - with a very weak back up players on offer.
How Balance and Vince are selected is beyond me. Would have been better off sticking with Westley - and what about Burns from Surrey?
Bowling wise, what does Leach have to do to get selected?
Statistically yes, they should have selected Burns but it is a lot easier to score runs on a flat oval pitch than somewhere up north like Durham.
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More good news-Stokes fractures finger on right hand- I wonder how he did that?
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For me this screams of the fact that Bayliss doesn't get around enough to watch CC cricket and keeps on going back to players he knows even though they have failed - you can talk as much as you want about they know the set-up but if your rubbish then that doesn't matter :(
There may not have been many outstanding candidates on the batting front but there were surely better options even if untried at Test level.
For me we have brought this on ourselves a bit by Root not batting himself at 3.
I do really like the Foakes and Crane selections though. Foakes has been outstanding all season and Crane has experience of bowling in Oz with NSW.
I am very surprised that Plunkett didn't get picked as i think he really could have made an impact into the Oz top order. They obviously didn't feel they could rely on Wood's fitness so Overton got selected - which again i think is justified.
My side would be -
Cook
Stoneman
Root
Malan
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Foakes
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
This relies on Root growing a pair and moving up to 3 - i really don't think Vince or Ballance are up to it - and Foakes will do will with the gloves and hold his own at 8 - we all know YJB is more then capable in the field.
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Statistically yes, they should have selected Burns but it is a lot easier to score runs on a flat oval pitch than somewhere up north like Durham.
Arent a lot of the wickets in Oz going to be flat, alebit it with pace and bounce? I think playing at the Oval would have stood him in good stead?
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Could we all be a bit surprised and they prep 5 turning wickets due to a worry over the fitness of there quicks? Or am I being silly?
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Whatever Ballance has over Root i need to find out what it is and get the same with my skipper, guaranteed place in the team regardless of performances
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Balance is a sacrifical lamb to carry the drinks
Hales/Roy should go at 5 or 6 as with little swing they could be the most destructive players on the tour - although Malan could do this too just worry about Lyon confusing him
Foakes - Great.
Vince - is his technique better suited to Aus conditions. Also anothe captain in what will be a tough tour
Crane - fine potential. If there is an injury to Ali then perhaps they plunder the lions
Seamers - I don’t fancy Porter is Aus who takenna bucket load in the championship. It’s not like we have a deep stock of fast fast bowlers - wood will play one test and contribute to winning it
It’s not the great squad however it has enough to beat the Aussies. Let the fun begin
More concerned at the need to tell everyone in September whilst the Aussie are waiting till November!!
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England are going to get embarrassed.
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Balance is a sacrifical lamb to carry the drinks
Hales/Roy should go at 5 or 6 as with little swing they could be the most destructive players on the tour - although Malan could do this too just worry about Lyon confusing him
Foakes - Great.
Vince - is his technique better suited to Aus conditions. Also anothe captain in what will be a tough tour
Crane - fine potential. If there is an injury to Ali then perhaps they plunder the lions
Seamers - I don’t fancy Porter is Aus who takenna bucket load in the championship. It’s not like we have a deep stock of fast fast bowlers - wood will play one test and contribute to winning it
It’s not the great squad however it has enough to beat the Aussies. Let the fun begin
More concerned at the need to tell everyone in September whilst the Aussie are waiting till November!!
I wonder if Crane will also get named in the Lions squad, he will learn more playing cricket than he will running drinks.
I suspect they have to announce the side early to avoid players either booking holidays and then having to cancel or to stop them signing up for t20 franchises (applies more to the fringe players i guess)
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More concerned at the need to tell everyone in September whilst the Aussie are waiting till November!!
They leave on October 28th - so the most they really could of left it is a couple more weeks
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Crane in and no recall for Rashid with the dearth of spinners we have.
I'm no Rashid fan, but there has to be some other reason other than ability that he's not even getting a mention - I'm guessing he's not Root and The Coach's sort of 'chap'.
No, I think everyone is slowly waking up to the fact that Rashid is a bit crap.
Rashid's biggest selling point by far was "He's not Moeen Ali" during the days when the poor, misguided doubters believed our Mo couldn't bowl.
Now that everyone has realised that Moeen is the best thing in the world, "not Moeen Ali" doesn't hold the same appeal and people are starting to look at whether Rashid can actually bowl and the scales are starting to fall from their eyes.
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Could we all be a bit surprised and they prep 5 turning wickets due to a worry over the fitness of there quicks? Or am I being silly?
Nope , we will duly supply you with boring , bog standard drop in pitches , equipped with no seam , no swing , no turn , surprisingly little pace and less bounce than expected . I'm sure you'll all be mightily impressed . ;) :D
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I'm not conVINCEd you guys selected a team with the right balLance !
But , geez , I hope england field a side with foakes , stokes , and woakes .... can't wait for our crappy commentators to drop their bundle over that !
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Good luck to everyone selected. I hope they do themselves and England proud.
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I'm not conVINCEd you guys selected a team with the right balLance !
But , geez , I hope england field a side with foakes , stokes , and woakes .... can't wait for our crappy commentators to drop their bundle over that !
Haha!! Slats, haydos and the truly awful Clarky
And that’s from the land that gave us the great Richie Benaud
‘Don’t bother looking for that’ still my favourite line ever
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Watched the Sky Trescothick masterclass today. Found it really interesting when he was talking about how he uses a big backwards trigger in county cricket, but that doing that wouldn't work with the increased pace in internationals, so he just stayed nice and still and focused on leaning into the ball instead. Could someone at the ECB book Gary Ballance a trip to Taunton for a chat in between now and November?
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https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/cricket/4563431/ben-stokes-england-axe-shocking-video-street-punch# (https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/cricket/4563431/ben-stokes-england-axe-shocking-video-street-punch#) footage of stokes punching two fellas. Can only presume he'll claim self defence as the guy was swinging first. The bloke at the end went down quicker than England in the sub continent
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Self defense? He'll be lucky!! He walks after one of them, continually punching him as the fella backs off with his hands up passively until he puts him on his back. That isn't self defense
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He will be very lucky to dodge jail let alone get into AUS for the ashes.
Most normal people would get jail for that.
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Self defense? He'll be lucky!! He walks after one of them, continually punching him as the fella backs off with his hands up passively until he puts him on his back. That isn't self defense
Could he be backing off because his attempt at bottling somebody hadn't worked??? Amazing how people turn into cowards once a weapon is taken from them...
Not excusing the excessive punches at the end of the footage but Ffs the guy is hardly innocent when trying to bottle someone...
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Publishing the video means his defence team will Claim he couldnt possibly get a fair trial, another ecb organised leak?
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Isn't Stokes getting married next week? Perhaps Hales,as his best man,will share some amusing anecdotes from their raucous nights out as single men...
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Isn't Stokes getting married next week? Perhaps Hales,as his best man,will share some amusing anecdotes from their raucous nights out as single men...
Ha "bring up all you want about ex girlfriends but dont mention Bristol"
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Publishing the video means his defence team will Claim he couldnt possibly get a fair trial, another ecb organised leak?
Had someone say this to me earlier.
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Could he be backing off because his attempt at bottling somebody hadn't worked??? Amazing how people turn into cowards once a weapon is taken from them...
Not excusing the excessive punches at the end of the footage but Ffs the guy is hardly innocent when trying to bottle someone...
This sums up my general view of the situation, it's easy to say "walk away" but that's difficult when you've just had a bottle waved in your face.
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Hales booting the guy that is on the floor to end the first brawl?
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Hales booting the guy that is on the floor to end the first brawl?
Looks like it to me when i watched it again. Gives him a kicking runs off and comes back and starts booting the bloke on the floor in the head.
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Hales booting the guy that is on the floor to end the first brawl?
This doesn't look good given the kind of sharp, pointy shoes you young people like to wear with your skinny jeans on a night out these days!
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Does this mean Darren Stevens is going to be selected?
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Does this mean Darren Stevens is going to be selected?
Yes, Rick, yes it does... ;)
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Couldn't agree more with Chris above
Does it look bad? Of course it looks bad.
However, if all the reports are true and these guys have tried to attack Stokes/Hales/Anyone with a bottle and Stokes has the guts and power to finish it then good on him, the guys got exactly what they deserved.
Of course the video looks bad, they have only shown the footage of Stokes. Don't forget this is the Sun that has put this video into the public. Who knows what other video evidence they have been given that they haven't shown?
Its all well and good sat typing on a forum saying he should do this, he shouldn't do that but until you are in that situation you have no idea how you will react.
Just put yourself in the position of you being outside a club and 2 drunk idiots coming and attacking your Mrs/friend with a bottle. Would you just 'leave it' and walk away? Should he have just left it? Yeah probably in a perfect world, but it isn't.
As Max would put it "Play with feathers, you get your arsed tickled!"
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Wasn't Warner hailed as an Ozzie hero (after his ban) for punching Root?
Bloke clearly swings a bottle, good on Stokes for putting him on his (No Swearing Please)!
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It will be a case of whether the guy wants to press charges, i know that sounds obvious but i am sure the ECB money men can be very persuasive when they want to be.
I know you can see Hales put the boot in there but it makes you wonder how the discussions want about Hales selection. I mean he was a contender to go and must have been talked about etc.... but this probably ruled him out straight away.
For me i am glad Stokes flattened him.... you back up your mates no questions asked.
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Just put yourself in the position of you being outside a club and 2 drunk idiots coming and attacking your Mrs/friend with a bottle. Would you just 'leave it' and walk away? Should he have just left it? Yeah probably in a perfect world, but it isn't.
Yes, because I'm not a f**king idiot - let the police sort out the bloke with the bottle. When has taking the law into your own hands ever worked out for anyone?
Could I end it Stokes-esq? Probably. Would I? Nah.
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No good ever came from paper headlines that start with 'Premier league star/England player/professional sportsman was in/leaving (insert name of) bar/nightclub/casino.' Ever.
Far too many local lads tanked up on the batman juice who want to get a rise out of sports pro. And they nearly always do. Silly boy. Pay me over a million quid and I'd happily pay for a private room, or drink in my hotel bar, etc.
The Warner issue was different as you had all parties definitely not wanting to press charges. Having spoken to a couple of cricket club mates who are coppers, they've said he's in trouble.
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Yes, because I'm not a f**king idiot - let the police sort out the bloke with the bottle. When has taking the law into your own hands ever worked out for anyone?
Could I end it Stokes-esq? Probably. Would I? Nah.
And where were the police to sort it out? They weren't there!
So the next time someone gets attacked with a bottle they should turn around and say "Please don't do that, the police will be here in 20 minutes to deal with this. Please can you stand over there while they arrive to sort this out?"
As a said previously no-one on this forum was there, no-one knows what happened. You would be ok if Stokes had left this go, turned around and walked away and the guy picked up another bottle and glassed him from behind? These are the sort of drunken idiots we are talking about here. But it's ok, the police will deal with it then.
Get off your high horse mate.
If Stokes has done this with no provocation what-so-ever then I'm in total agreement that it is wayyyyy out of order and he will be dealt with as he should be.
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As a side note to the actual episode which has resulted in this, I do agree with the point that Stokes etc. should have never put themselves in this position in the first place.
They are professional athletes in the middle of a cricket series, they shouldn't have even been in a club as 2.30am in the morning for this to happen in the first place.
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Yes, because I'm not a f**king idiot - let the police sort out the bloke with the bottle. When has taking the law into your own hands ever worked out for anyone?
Could I end it Stokes-esq? Probably. Would I? Nah.
I notice you are asking the question because you have not been in that situation? I didn't see any Police on the videos so he couldn't ask them to intervene when he saw the bloke with the bottle coming towards people..
Personally I think you are a f***ing idiot because you are commenting on something you have no experience of...
Don't see the point of name calling someone when you don't know the full facts or have been in a similar situation...
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No good ever came from paper headlines that start with 'Premier league star/England player/professional sportsman was in/leaving (insert name of) bar/nightclub/casino.' Ever.
Far too many local lads tanked up on the batman juice who want to get a rise out of sports pro. And they nearly always do. Silly boy. Pay me over a million quid and I'd happily pay for a private room, or drink in my hotel bar, etc.
The Warner issue was different as you had all parties definitely not wanting to press charges. Having spoken to a couple of cricket club mates who are coppers, they've said he's in trouble.
Interesting... I know of a few coppers who have done similar things on a night out and those coppers still kept their jobs...
In fact a famous copper ran someone over on a pedestrian crossing whilst under the influence and still kept his job and pension...
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I think it's the extreme reaction from Stokes that concerns me. Ok if he throws a couple of punches, but he behaves like a raged animal who has just been released from his cage,going again and again- at one point a mate (Hales?) Tries to pull him away,but Stokes can't stop himself.
To me the issue a here is alcohol -needs to give up the booze as it turns him,horrible to see.
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I think it's the extreme reaction from Stokes that concerns me. Ok if he throws a couple of punches, but he behaves like a raged animal who has just been released from his cage,going again and again- at one point a mate (Hales?) Tries to pull him away,but Stokes can't stop himself.
To me the issue a here is alcohol -needs to give up the booze as it turns him,horrible to see.
Don't think anybody can say he didn't take it to far.. The drinking is an interesting debate... Yes he has had problems over the years but he is still only 26 and hopefully this incident will make him choose more wisely where he goes for a drink HOWEVER there is no place in society for anyone to threaten people with a bottle.. Bottom line is that if the guy had not threatened people with that bottle then Stokes and Hales would have had a drink and gone back to the hotel. IMO nothing wrong with that even at 2.30 am..
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Agreed Tate, certainly went too far, it's the line saying he should have just walked away and left it that winds me up.
No problem with being in a club at 2.30am in between series' but not in-between games, but that's just my opinion.
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The problem with booze is it makes one more vulnerable- especially if you are in a club environment, where the majority drink to excess. Stokes isn't an 18 year old fresher anymore- I suggest that if they hadn't made the initial poor choice of venue,this would never have happened. In any case,this is a sad situation,and the Ashes will be a poorer spectacle without him,if indeed he is banned/charged
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Yep - it seems many of us are coming round to the same conclusion.
The fisticuffs were not good, but he looks like he;s been seriously provoked.
However, you have to question the wisdom of being p*ssed up at 2.30am in a city centre, away from your mates and in the middle of a series, as opposed to being p*ssed up at 2.30am in your luxurious hotel bar with all your mates and in the middle of a series.
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(https://i.imgur.com/B2vGyrX.jpg)
Unfortunate cover in last weeks Times supplement....
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Interesting... I know of a few coppers who have done similar things on a night out and those coppers still kept their jobs...
In fact a famous copper ran someone over on a pedestrian crossing whilst under the influence and still kept his job and pension...
So that brings us onto the question of privilege, in a week where an Oxford uni student was spared jail time for stabbing her boyfriend as the judge felt it would harm her career prospects.
It also depends on the CPS and their intent to prosecute such crimes. Whether ABH is a current issue for them, who knows? Many factors to take into account, but as I say, the consensus with law enforcememt colleagues is that we dont see what happened before, but he went way too far.
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The way our justice system is these days, Stokes will get banged up.
However, how many times you read in the news that these sick bastards get caught with indecent images and get put on a list and sent home, and as mentioned above, that little cow who stabbed someone and got away with it.[
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I can't see the other guy pressing charges if he instigated the incident....attacking someone with a weapon! Police could still press charges.
You can use reasonable force to defend yourself or others, but this goes way beyond that point. The original aggressors were seemingly backing off and the others were heard saying "that's enough". I know it's heat of the moment stuff and we don't know the full facts, but looks like he could be in trouble. Video doesn't show what preceded the incident nor how it ended....Sun edited for max damage?
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I can't see the other guy pressing charges if he instigated the incident....attacking someone with a weapon! Police could still press charges.
You can use reasonable force to defend yourself or others, but this goes way beyond that point. The original aggressors were seemingly backing off and the others were heard saying "that's enough". I know it's heat of the moment stuff and we don't know the full facts, but looks like he could be in trouble. Video doesn't show what preceded the incident nor how it ended....Sun edited for max damage?
Of course it's been edited. It's the Sun
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They are the 2 biggest questions for me -
1. What haven't we seen - there is definitely more to that video - and obviously The Sun have previous when it comes to altering the truth for headlines!
2. Who is then going to press charges
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According to rumours on Twitter, and I enhance the word rumours, Stokes has given his side of the story.
Apparently the 2 guys threatening, taunting and abusing 2 gay men (I know being gay has nothing to do with this, just simply going on the Twitter rumours). Stokes was incensed by the abuse the 2 men were giving and preceded to raise a bottle to potentially attempt to attack the 2 men and potentially Stokes himself.
Stokes took matters into his own hands as seen in the video. He has the view of they started it and he finished it.
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Stokes is going to need all this albeit rumours at the moment basically anything he can use as defending himself
I’m not a lawyer but the bottle if there is one could be crucial
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According to rumours on Twitter, and I enhance the word rumours, Stokes has given his side of the story.
Apparently the 2 guys threatening, taunting and abusing 2 gay men (I know being gay has nothing to do with this, just simply going on the Twitter rumours). Stokes was incensed by the abuse the 2 men were giving and preceded to raise a bottle to potentially attempt to attack the 2 men and potentially Stokes himself.
Stokes took matters into his own hands as seen in the video. He has the view of they started it and he finished it.
Please don't trust anything that comes from Piers Morgan as it's primary source.
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Of course it's been edited. It's the Sun
Would love them to be as sensationalistic with their own misdemeanours!
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Forgetting Stokes MMA debut for a moment, are there genuinely people out there that would have taken Dawson over Crane? Rashid I don't agree with t but can sort of understand a case could be made. Possibly the same for Leach, though a suspect action and maybe more so a bad Lions tour seems to have ruled him out.
Crane hasn't done much in CC but I took it as read that he'd be on the plane when they have had him involved in everything and he tore it up in Oz last winter.
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The search for the two gay guys stokes said he defended is on
Never has the gay population of Bristol been so important
:)
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According to rumours on Twitter, and I enhance the word rumours, Stokes has given his side of the story.
Apparently the 2 guys threatening, taunting and abusing 2 gay men (I know being gay has nothing to do with this, just simply going on the Twitter rumours). Stokes was incensed by the abuse the 2 men were giving and preceded to raise a bottle to potentially attempt to attack the 2 men and potentially Stokes himself.
Stokes took matters into his own hands as seen in the video. He has the view of they started it and he finished it.
So which one will be outed, Ball or Hales?
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Forgetting Stokes MMA debut for a moment, are there genuinely people out there that would have taken Dawson over Crane? Rashid I don't agree with t but can sort of understand a case could be made. Possibly the same for Leach, though a suspect action and maybe more so a bad Lions tour seems to have ruled him out.
Crane hasn't done much in CC but I took it as read that he'd be on the plane when they have had him involved in everything and he tore it up in Oz last winter.
Crane has been selected as the second spinner in conditions where it is likely to rag. As such - given that we're basically talking about one game - he is not a bad call as he will benefit from the experienec of carrying drinks and being around the squad.
If Ali were not fit...its tricky. Rashid is no more a first spinner in Australian conditions, and I suspect that Leach's action remains impure on occasion. So, its a case of call in a like for like - Patel or Dawson - or go for the best young English spinner in Dom Bess (who would have been ruled out originally because two offies is a combination lacking balance)
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Typical caveman itching for a blue.
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Stokes is going to need all this albeit rumours at the moment basically anything he can use as defending himself
I’m not a lawyer but the bottle if there is one could be crucial
Bottle is there for anyone to see in the videos... Even Wenger couldn't say " I didn't see it" on this occasion.. :o
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I’m sure there’s a huge number of fans hoping Stokes is telling the truth about defending a couple of other guys,the video looks real bad
He will need all mitigating evidence I would think in his favoursocial
Sports stars fall from grace this is real life, the comparison with Botham is not lost on me- only back in the day there was no video or social media
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If Stokes had disarmed the tool with the bottle and performed a citizen's arrest,then fair enough. Going by what I've seen,he has taken the law into his own hands,surely it's as simple as that? Surely he faces the sack at the very least?
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I think regardless of any police action he's got an ECB ban coming. Justification for which would simply be 'why the hell were you there?'
Michael Vauaghan saying yesterday on TMS he'd be amazed if he were fit for the first test, if he's actually on the plane.
Strauss must be absolutely furious and I don't blame him at all
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I’m sure there’s a huge number of fans hoping Stokes is telling the truth about defending a couple of other guys,the video looks real bad
He will need all mitigating evidence I would think in his favoursocial
Sports stars fall from grace this is real life, the comparison with Botham is not lost on me- only back in the day there was no video or social media
You are right this is REAL life and Stokes is just a normal human being. He has obviously snapped whilst under the influence of alcohol to someone trying to BOTTLE someone...
On a weekend this type of thing happens across many towns and cities in the country to the extent where some people are seriously hurt..
Yet I don't see the majority of the public hi lighting and condemning these people, however when one person who happens to be good at cricket does something similar, some people get all hysterical and start getting on their high horse..
Ben Stokes is human with the same faults as many and before you mention "role models" and "money they earn" you should perhaps look at politicians, senior policeman, bankers, lawyers etc etc who have done A LOT worse than what Stokes has done yet still keep their jobs and avoid prosecution... :o
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There's no curfew under bayliss for the players -or at least there has not been up to now-
I too think he will get banned but if there is mitigation stuff for Stokes(defending other people/a bottle against him) it may not be the sack
Strauss won't shy away from a tough decision- he is sure in an awkward position thou
Stokes needs to be telling the truth about what happened I reckon to get off with a ban
The two gay guys he says he was defending are absolutely crucial they come forward surely?
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When we say Sack Ben Stokes, what does that mean? He'd never be able to play for england again? or his current central contract is torn up and he would have to earn another one?
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If Stokes had disarmed the tool with the bottle and performed a citizen's arrest,then fair enough. Going by what I've seen,he has taken the law into his own hands,surely it's as simple as that? Surely he faces the sack at the very least?
Jeez... That happens everyday doesn't it.. People go out and make a citizens arrest after being attacked with a bottle...
Seriously what a stupid comment to make Golders . Are you Australian or related to the man attacked???
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When we say Sack Ben Stokes, what does that mean? He'd never be able to play for england again? or his current central contract is torn up and he would have to earn another one?
I can't remember the last time there was an incident like this....so at a guess he would be not selected the same as kevin Pietersen was....
Originally I thought he would be sacked myself but there seems some evidence it's not all one way.
Another guess is your conduct with the Ecb has a clause about what is not acceptable representing England.
Stokes needs to be telling the truth I think...and there is a bottle in the video for those that missed it(me)
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Why is Alex Hales getting absolutely no attention in all of this!! Kicking someone in the head numerous times while they're laying on the floor then running away, he should hope that the police don't get hold of the footage because he could be in a bit of bother himself!! The coward
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When we say Sack Ben Stokes, what does that mean? He'd never be able to play for england again? or his current central contract is torn up and he would have to earn another one?
Think people mean his central contract would be terminated.. Many a cricketer has been involved in a fight and kept his job and I would hope Stokes would be no different.. Strip him of his vice captaincy and then ask him to do some more community work (although Stokes does a lot for his old club already) .
Nobody benefits from him not playing for England again other than Durham, Big Bash, IPL etc etc.. So I hope Strauss doesn't set English cricket back 5 years and ban him for next 2years...
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ECB Central Contract Allocation for 2017/18 is being announced on Monday as well :( :(
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Obviously the ecb are far more likely to set back the acceptable standard for behaviour of a contracted player by more than 5 years by offering up some token slap on the wrist, rather than rule out a required player for an important series. Priorities....
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Nobody benefits from him not playing for England again other than Durham, Big Bash, IPL etc etc.. So I hope Strauss doesn't set English cricket back 5 years and ban him for next 2years...
Can Durham afford his salary?
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Obviously the ecb are far more likely to set back the acceptable standard for behaviour of a contracted player by more than 5 years by offering up some token slap on the wrist, rather than rule out a required player for an important series. Priorities....
Ha!! You must be Australian.. He will lose the vice captaincy and the chance to one day captain his country.. He will possibly get a police caution, plus he will have to explain to his kids his actions and also take a lot of future abuse from cricketers and the general public...
Think that is sufficient punishment considering this sort of thing happens everyday in the UK and many people never even get a police caution for doing a lot worse..
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Can Durham afford his salary?
Lol.. This might sound strange but if England banned him I believe he would make his money playing the T20 tournaments and still play for Durham (for lesser wages than at Surrey etc) because they gave him a start in cricket.
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Jeez... That happens everyday doesn't it.. People go out and make a citizens arrest after being attacked with a bottle...
Seriously what a stupid comment to make Golders . Are you Australian or related to the man attacked???
No I'm a pommie! Maybe I was being a bit OTT, and I'm no expert on these matters- nor do I claim to be- what shocked me was the extreme nature of Stokes' reaction- let's not forget,people have been killed by a single punch.
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I can see why a royal flag waver and a convict might disagree on what "sufficient" punishment might be. I still think the guy is a savage and should be treated as such.
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Lol.. This might sound strange but if England banned him I believe he would make his money playing the T20 tournaments and still play for Durham (for lesser wages than at Surrey etc) because they gave him a start in cricket.
Probably right. England wont sack him as they know he will go and play t20 cricket and earn more and why would he come back? Although wouldnt the ECB need to provide a NOC to play abroad?
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Back to the cricket....good to see Vince grafting away for for twenty odd(touch wood)- he is batting at 4 though!
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Forgetting Stokes MMA debut for a moment, are there genuinely people out there that would have taken Dawson over Crane? Rashid I don't agree with t but can sort of understand a case could be made. Possibly the same for Leach, though a suspect action and maybe more so a bad Lions tour seems to have ruled him out.
Crane hasn't done much in CC but I took it as read that he'd be on the plane when they have had him involved in everything and he tore it up in Oz last winter.
Crane made a case for himself to be included last time he was in OZ he showed he could get the type of bounce which gets wickets and keep an end quiet while the seamers are rotated at the other end.
He's been selected as the second spinner but as only 2 test grounds are likely to spin he probably won't play unless Moeens injured.
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On the Stokes matter, many saying why shouldnt he be treated like anyone else just because he's famous?
Noone cried thia much when Wayne Rooney pleaded guilty to being caught drink driving. Think of all the repercussions that could happen had he crashed and seriously injured someone.
I for one have been in the middle of a couple of punch ups whildt very intoxicated. Nothing came of it and police were there. All this depends on is the 'victims' injuries. If theres any speculation that Stokes/Hales have caused GBH. They obviouslt wont get away from it, probably ever. At the moment all it is is ABH which is basically giving someone a bruise. Which im sure we all did giving friends birthday beats at school!
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Back to the cricket....good to see Vince grafting away for for twenty odd(touch wood)- he is batting at 4 though!
Yep Strauss day just gets better and better as it looks like Middlesex are going to go down
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Back to the cricket....good to see Vince grafting away for for twenty odd(touch wood)- he is batting at 4 though!
Indeed back to the cricket.. Wonder why Root is reluctant to bat at 3?? At 4 he is usually in within 15 overs anyhow.. Lol..
If Root goes to 3 could Johnny go to 4, stokes at 5 then Malan/Vince at 6??
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(https://image.prntscr.com/image/lBRwVTaLQV_Hbx6By5ncvA.jpg)
How ironic :D
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(https://image.prntscr.com/image/lBRwVTaLQV_Hbx6By5ncvA.jpg)
How ironic :D
Didn't that article say he would only thump someone if that person attacked someone with a bottle?? ;) ;)
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Maybe he meant when sober.
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maybe he meant when on the field
lots of judgement without the facts on here
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Stokes and Hales suspended for England selection 'until further notice'
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"Further notice" - read Ashes.
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Maybe he meant when sober.
Lol... That's good... :D
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maybe he meant when on the field
lots of judgement without the facts on here
It's big news,people are bound to share their thoughts on a public forum.
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It's big news,people are bound to share their thoughts on a public forum.
Fair enough but there are views and judgements
I'm very reluctant to pass judgement having been through a similar thing in my youth and thank god I am a nobody otherwise may have been attacked on places like this without the full story
doesn't look good but the police need to do their thing and find out the facts.
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Stokes and Hales suspended for England selection 'until further notice'
Stokes injured anyhow but think Hales could be in trouble yet as he can clearly be seen kicking someone in the head who is on the ground...
There is no nice side to a brawl but personally don't think its right to kick people when they on floor.
Even MMA don't do that... :o
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Stokes injured anyhow but think Hales could be in trouble yet as he can clearly be seen kicking someone in the head who is on the ground...
There is no nice side to a brawl but personally don't think its right to kick people when they on floor.
Even MMA don't do that... :o
In UFC they sit on them and punch them in the head repeatedly... maybe hales was confused and thought it was ok. we all do stupid things whilst drunk. Don't think there's significant damage done though so lucky for both really.
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https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/483532 (https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/483532) not considered for selection until further notice
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https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/483532 (https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/483532) not considered for selection until further notice
As below ;)
Stokes and Hales suspended for England selection 'until further notice'
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There goes the innocent till proven guilty
But to be fair right thing to suspend pending an investigation but all this talk of disciplinary they must have more facts than have been released to public.
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In UFC they sit on them and punch them in the head repeatedly... maybe hales was confused and thought it was ok. we all do stupid things whilst drunk. Don't think there's significant damage done though so lucky for both really.
That was my point.. Sitting on them and punching is acceptable in sport so Stokes is ok ( ;)) but Hales was IMO more out of order...
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I think that's normal procedure to be honest. But wouldn't be surprised if they do have more information about it. Jimmy and Jake Ball were out that night too as pictures suggest. Maybe they know something?
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As below ;)
Sorry hadnt seen that :)
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that's what I mean
you would think they would say "suspended pending an investigation" that statement sounds like they have made up their minds already
oh well full IPL Big Bash for stokes next year then.
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see i read it differently - I read it as suspended until a police charge (if any is issued). ECB can't be seen not suspending players if they get arrested, they've done just that. if they don't get charged the ECB will still be expected to punish Stokes and Hales. and i'd expect either a very hefty fine or even exclusion from selection for some time.
In laymans terms. either 6 month suspension or a couple months fine and a couple of games banned? I honestly and clearly haven't got a clue. Hope it's the latter though
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High profile players being in a nightclub at 2.30am in the middle of a series knowing there's a chance someone is liable to have a go is clearly foolish.
But Stokes comes over as a decent guy not one to provokes fights yes he will wind up the opposition and thump a locker
But he's also one who gave £500.00 to an injured ameture player.
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Fair enough I can see how you would see that
When it says disciplinary procedures have been opened that worries me as surely wait to see what result of police investigation is then decide what action to take
Hopefully they are doing what you say and will make a decision on severity or ban or fine after police decide if they have enough grounds to charge.
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Agreed @Seniorplayer. He's a see you next tuesday. but the kind that you'd want as a friend. Funny i've heard that somewhere before :D
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(https://i.imgur.com/BxIz4Cd.png)
Little preview of the winter
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I cant see anyway Stokes can go to the Ashes after that statement. If KP got sacked for not looking interested, then flooring 3 people isn't going to wash?
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Fair enough I can see how you would see that
When it says disciplinary procedures have been opened that worries me as surely wait to see what result of police investigation is then decide what action to take
Hopefully they are doing what you say and will make a decision on severity or ban or fine after police decide if they have enough grounds to charge.
Looks like procedure is being followed which ECB need to be seen doing they can't do much else now it's down to invesigations which will as you say decide on what action to take if any at all.
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In any walk of life suspending someone on full pay pending an investigation is common. Its essentially saying you're innocent until proven guilty, whilst acknowledging there is an issue that is deemed serious enough to suspend someone from their job.
He's brought his employer into disrepute. I worked with a guy who got sacked after being convicted of drink driving. No jail term, but it was in the local rag, named his employer and they sacked him.
The main issue i guess is not that he defended himself from a guy with a bottle, its that he continued punching him when he was down and unarmed and then again when he got up. Hales, if he did put the boot in, has a problem as well.
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The main issue i guess is not that he defended himself from a guy with a bottle, its that he continued punching him when he was down and unarmed and then again when he got up. Hales, if he did put the boot in, has a problem as well.
This for me - had he stopped when the guy hit the ground the first time then maybe, just maybe, he'd have got a ticking off and a slap on the wrist. It's what ensued afterwards is the issue I should think - ECB have made the right move, it's just a case of seeing where the police take things now
Either way it's (No Swearing Please) our plans for a good winter!!
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I haven't checked this thread for a day and it jumped ahead by 8 pages.
Did I miss something ? ;)
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Pretty hard in the middle of a fight when someone has had a weapon to just stop when they are on ground
In heat of a fight extremely hard to stop until they can't fight back, when adrenaline in full flow brains don't come into it
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(https://i.imgur.com/BxIz4Cd.png)
Little preview of the winter
Lol even Bayliss said he likes to snick off. We need a consistent number 3,but not a number 3 that consistently snicks off!
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I haven't checked this thread for a day and it jumped ahead by 8 pages.
Did I miss something ? ;)
Yeah, Stokes got drunk and thought he was in the MMA octogon. :D
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Pretty hard in the middle of a fight when someone has had a weapon to just stop when they are on ground
In heat of a fight extremely hard to stop until they can't fight back, when adrenaline in full flow brains don't come into it
I completely get that and agree. Reasonable force is a grey area and its up to the police to determine that.
But the moment i start to feel for him i keep coming back to what the hell were you doing there?!
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Pretty hard in the middle of a fight when someone has had a weapon to just stop when they are on ground
In heat of a fight extremely hard to stop until they can't fight back, when adrenaline in full flow brains don't come into it
Add alcohol into the mix and well...... Easy to not know when to stop.
So had stokes and Co not been there and the headline read "gay men hospitalised with life changing injuries on unprovoked attack"
Would most people be happy with that headline? Personally I would not be.
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Seems to be a few on here would be happier with that headline
True put beer into the mix makes it even harder
Until we know the full details of why it started and went so far I for one won't praise or scold
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People need to think about what theyd do ...and what they wouldn't do in these type of situations. Figure it out when sober / in a normal setting, then hopefully your instinct in the actual situation follows the same path .
I for one have seen a lot of stuff like this , but know there are other ways to defuse a situation. Ive thought about the consequences so much that it actually quite inhibits my choices in a such a situation. So, i know i would be too scared of killing or maiming someone , bottom line . So if the situation is over /has been diffused , why continue it to only risk harm to all involved ?
. Ever thought about putting him in a head lock after punching him ? Ever thought about not punching him while he's backing off ( and hence no threat ) ? Ever thought if i hit this guy well enough and king hit him , he could crack his skull and die ? Ever thought kicking a guy in the head who is on the ground is an unnecessary dog act ? Ever thought i shouldnt be out at this shitehole at 2.30am because it is asking for trouble? I could go on and on .
I reckon the bottle bloke acted like scum. I reckon Hales acted like scum. I reckon Stokes acted like scum .
They are all scum ....all people acting so violently ( beyond the scope of self defence) should face jail time . Simple .
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Add alcohol into the mix and well...... Easy to not know when to stop.
So had stokes and Co not been there and the headline read "gay men hospitalised with life changing injuries on unprovoked attack"
Would most people be happy with that headline? Personally I would not be.
If we're going to start making up imaginary headlines for scenarios that didn't happen then I'd have much preferred something along the lines of "England Star Stokes Embers of Tolerance" accompanied by a nice story about how he bought everyone a drink and sat them down to discuss why homophobia and violence are very, very naughty.
But seeing as none of that is what happens why don't we focus on what actually did happen? A couple of England players got into a drunken brawl in the middle of an international series that put someone in the hospital, the hammer needs to come down on them.
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People need to think about what theyd do ...and what they wouldn't do in these type of situations. Figure it out when sober / in a normal setting, then hopefully your instinct in the actual situation follows the same path .
I for one have seen a lot of stuff like this , but know there are other ways to defuse a situation. Ive thought about the consequences so much that it actually quite inhibits my choices in a such a situation. So, i know i would be too scared of killing or maiming someone , bottom line . So if the situation is over /has been diffused , why continue it to only risk harm to all involved ?
. Ever thought about putting him in a head lock after punching him ? Ever thought about not punching him while he's backing off ( and hence no threat ) ? Ever thought if i hit this guy well enough and king hit him , he could crack his skull and die ? Ever thought kicking a guy in the head who is on the ground is an unnecessary dog act ? Ever thought i shouldnt be out at this shitehole at 2.30am because it is asking for trouble? I could go on and on .
I reckon the bottle bloke acted like scum. I reckon Hales acted like scum. I reckon Stokes acted like scum .
They are all scum ....all people acting so violently ( beyond the scope of self defence) should face jail time . Simple .
Thank god you were not the magistrate when I was in court for section 47 when charge after defending myself from 2 blokes with pool cues
I'd be in prison for not agreeing to get a kicking
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Thank god you were not the magistrate when I was in court for section 47 when charge after defending myself from 2 blokes with pool cues
I'd be in prison for not agreeing to get a kicking
Defend yourself while under threat , don't when not . If defending yourself might risk maiming or killing someone perhaps try a plan b if possible ie in a lot if situations there is the choice of just standing there and watching the guy back off , or there is a choice of running away . Ive come to the conclusion that doing the minimal to get out alive ( and everyone else for that matter) is much better that 'finishing what someone else starts' / 'giving someone what they deserve' etc . My ego isn't so infantile anymore that i need to prove that i can floor someone , and my sense of justice isnt so warped as to punish someone physically beyond pure self defence .
When watching that video i noticed thst at no time was any single person backed into a corner . Every single person in that situation (other when that one guy was on the ground having his noggin rearranged ) had other options at their disposal other than the ones they chose to act upon .
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Thank god you were not the magistrate when I was in court for section 47 when charge after defending myself from 2 blokes with pool cues
I'd be in prison for not agreeing to get a kicking
Ive also been a similar position many moons ago . It was dismissed because i could prove i only did the bare minimum to protect myself .
If you did the same then you should have been treated the same way i was . If you chased after guys once their weapons (cues , bottles, whatever the case may be) were no longer available to them , and once they had stopped attacking you (and were actually backing off) then it would be a different case altogether .
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The last thing i hope i say on this ....
Too many people seem to be quick to bring up alcohol . Fair enough if its to understand how the situation got so out of hand or why so many poor decisions were made . But some people seem to bring up alcohol as if its some kind of mitigating circumstance that allows for a more forgiving assessment of the situation. Well , (No Swearing Please) to that ! You choose to drink , you choose the consequences and influence it has on your actions and capacity to make intelligent decisions .
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why not just let the courts decide his punishment and let his jail time (if any) determine how long he's out of the game... simple.
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Well last post for me
Fair play if you can keep that level of control it's rare very rare
Personally I broke one of their jaws with a chair and an arm when they tried to swing at me
I stopped when they were both on the floor but if they had got up I would have put both down again for fear of them picking up another weapon
I got off with suspended and probation as was self defence but excessive force which I accept and was a learning experience but if people have weapons I make sure they are not going to use them again as if they are backing up really easy to grab another weapon
I was very lucky and do not take these things lightly and am not bragging in slightest as was an extremely scary time being in court facing 5 years in winson green , if not for witnesses and pub cctv I could have been sent down
To be fair since then I try to not drink too much and put myself in those situations as I know I won't back down so a work around in a way
But everything is easy to judge if you were not there
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In light of the ecb squad selections and recent events , my updated xl for eng at brisbane :
Cook
Stoneman
Root
Bairstow
Malan
Vince
Ali
Woakes
Foakes
Broad
Anderson
Part timers will have to be called upon to do more bowling , batting is a bit meh in parts , but at least the batting order is long .
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In light of the ecb squad selections and recent events , my updated xl for eng at brisbane :
Cook
Stoneman
Root
Bairstow
Malan
Vince
Ali
Woakes
Foakes
Broad
Anderson
Part timers will have to be called upon to do more bowling , batting is a bit meh in parts , but at least the batting order is long .
Id be fuming if i was foakes
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Does leave a hole in the side
but means Ali at 7 woakes 8 for me as part timers could go with flat kook ball and good aus pitches
Need 5 genuine bowlers for me then light relief with root and vince
I'd love plunkett to replace stokes and bat 9 extra pace and can bat
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Well last post for me
Fair play if you can keep that level of control it's rare very rare
Personally I broke one of their jaws with a chair and an arm when they tried to swing at me
I stopped when they were both on the floor but if they had got up I would have put both down again for fear of them picking up another weapon
I got off with suspended and probation as was self defence but excessive force which I accept and was a learning experience but if people have weapons I make sure they are not going to use them again as if they are backing up really easy to grab another weapon
I was very lucky and do not take these things lightly and am not bragging in slightest as was an extremely scary time being in court facing 5 years in winson green , if not for witnesses and pub cctv I could have been sent down
To be fair since then I try to not drink too much and put myself in those situations as I know I won't back down so a work around in a way
But everything is easy to judge if you were not there
I could comment so much on this but....
@roco , your reply/thoughts are measured , balanced and very, very candid. Thats appreciated, respected and its a good trait to have . You admit you could have done some things a bit differently and that the court conclusions were fair enough. You also admit court was scary and that is admirable . You have reevaluated your behaviour/thoughts since , and that introspection helps to improve our capacity to think smart /quickly if ever in a similar situation.
Cudos to you bro !
Perhaps when you say my attitude /level of control is very rare , well maybe it is ....but ihave a feeling its about as common as any other pattern of response .
Lastly, i think maybe you are being too harsh on yourself and that perhaps , if you were in a similar situation today , you could do the bare minimum while still looking out for yourself and your mates . :)
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Id be fuming if i was foakes
Never seen him bat ( heard great things though)...maybe after an innings or two id have faith to swap with woakes.
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On a slightly lighter note, James Vince 'surprised' to get into the touring squad, well by my reckoning he starts and bats 3 with Malan in the middle order. That's a bit more than a surprise its downright amazement. :)
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If your team goes to plan and he bats well malan and vince should be worried. Put it that way.
Never seen him bat ( heard great things though)...maybe after an innings or two id have faith to swap with woakes.
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In the lead up to every ashes i have to remind myself that sooo many unpredictable things can happen in the leadup/course of the series.... whether it be punching opposition players , brawling on the street , rolling your anle on a cricket ball , flying a plane over a tour match etc etc . All makes it impossible to know 100% who will win , regardless of who looks better on paper .
Only six weeks. .....
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@Woodyspin .... can we have foakes then ? We'll swap you for nevill , wade , and any spinner ( other than lyon ) of your choice .
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@Woodyspin .... can we have foakes then ? We'll swap you for nevill , wade , and any spinner ( other than lyon ) of your choice .
1. No 2. definitely not and 3. if Agar can bat from Jimmy then sure.
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1. No 2. definitely not and 3. if Agar can bat from Jimmy then sure.
Not sure if you mean we can just swap foakes for agar .... but, im sorry you have to take the others too . Please , please. ...just get wade out of the country so oz cant select him anymore !
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Not sure if you mean we can just swap foakes for agar .... but, im sorry you have to take the others too . Please , please. ...just get wade out of the country so oz cant select him anymore !
If i was a convict id rather be doing the job myself. What have you got to be worried about? Starcs 90mph just stand a few yards back and wear 3 inners. Apart from hazlewood the rest who ive completely forgotten are average
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If i was a convict id rather be doing the job myself. What have you got to be worried about? Starcs 90mph just stand a few yards back and wear 3 inners. Apart from hazlewood the rest who ive completely forgotten are average
Wade might not have a bad series with the gloves ( but he might...you just never know when he's going to return to 'iron gloves' form ) . I'm more worried about his batting....he's so out of form its scary .
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@Woodyspin .... can we have foakes then ? We'll swap you for nevill , wade , and any spinner ( other than lyon ) of your choice .
What happened to SOK? Is he lost in the outback?
Seemed to drop off the radar alarmingly quickly.
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What happened to SOK? Is he lost in the outback?
Seemed to drop off the radar alarmingly quickly.
he's still are very good bowler. got a tad inconsistent towards the end of indian series , then got suspended for getting in trouble while on the drink. didnt play for months , then got called up for 2nd bangersandmash test ....bowled poorly , but had no game time under his belt and was barely off the plane and into a test match . so , he's still there ot thereabouts.
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Jim maxwell ....legendary Aussie commentator says we are the worst batting line up to leave these shores in living memory and we, the poms, are going to lose 5-0
Aggers says its one of the weakest Ashes sides he can remember...
Vic Marks says the selection policy has reverted to a pick your mates team like you would do in a village green.
It's the Labour Party conference I'm just waiting for Jeremy Corbin to give his opinion and we have a full house.
Jeez....thank god Chris Woakes is fit is all I've got to say :)
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Wade might not have a bad series with the gloves ( but he might...you just never know when he's going to return to 'iron gloves' form ) . I'm more worried about his batting....he's so out of form its scary .
More scary that wade’s never been in form yet continues to be selected
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Oh dear mr stokes mocking a disabled
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4929800/Shocking-footage-shows-Ben-Stokes-foul-mouthed-outburst.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4929800/Shocking-footage-shows-Ben-Stokes-foul-mouthed-outburst.html)
He’s having a nightmare
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Oh dear mr stokes mocking a disabled
[url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4929800/Shocking-footage-shows-Ben-Stokes-foul-mouthed-outburst.html[/url] ([url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4929800/Shocking-footage-shows-Ben-Stokes-foul-mouthed-outburst.html[/url])
He’s having a nightmare
That is disappointing.
Stokes' trajectory is eerily similar to Annakin Skywalker's after his marriage to Padme, he just turned evil. Is Andrew Strauss the Obi Wan of this saga? Will he clip Stokes below the knees and leave him near the firey volcano. :D :D :D
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How's it disappointing - The video of Harvey went viral the minute it happened. not only is it funny it's a perfect attitude to anyone who has no respect for you, give them none back. The video of Stokes isn't mockery but purely a couple of lads enjoying the fact the C word come out of a 15 year old's mouth live on TV.
I point you to Louis Smith who was banned after mocking Islam by laughing and pretending to prey shouting 'Allahu Akbar'! This was his second breach in 5 months and was banned for 2 months from Gymnastics.
In all honesty Stokes' is playground stuff in comparison.
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How's it disappointing
Stokes is still caught up in that "lad" behavior/culture. He is vice-captain of the England cricket team. That means something. I was in disbelief when I saw the fight video but this "Harvey" nonsense explains something about him and why he'd be caught in jam outside a small nightclub in a compromising situation. It hasn't sunk into his testosterone addled brain that he is representing England. And he has fans outside of England too!
Unfortunately, if Cricket is going to grow in new markets, players need to rise up to a higher level of professionalism. On the field and off the field. He could've killed those guys, they were no match for his physicality. He is a "bloody" idiot! And, he need serious psychiatric help. I hope Strauss kicks him off the team!
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Stokes showing that he isn't fit to represent his country I'm afraid. Shame - a talented cricketer but seems to be a bit of a knob.
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The Harvey video is just people jumping on the bandwagon.
When that happened the office I worked in people made several jokes about it, my cricket team did (the odd meme about it will still pop up in the group chat every now and again). The daily mail wouldn’t have published this in isolation and are just doing the usual gutter journalism to kick someone when they are down. We all knew stokes had that liability side in him, he’s been a stupid boy of late, but this is just unnecessary
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Grab the pitch forks and torches time for snowflake justice
Someone said a naughty word so I need to be offended for everyone on the planet
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Yep. Despite the heman rage, and mocking disabled kids. Clearly a "decent bloke" who should be cut some slack.
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Looks like Australia has taken a huge jump to the left (and to the moral high ground) since this happened, at least it means their bizarre opposition to same-sex marrage should be over.
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What opposition? Australians for marriage equality sits around 70% and has for a long time. The opposition sits with the far right faction of the current liberal government and our P.Ms unwillingness to upset his party by calling for a free parlimentary vote to legislate the change.
But anyway. Australian politics aside. This stokes is still a giant flog. No moral leap there.
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What opposition? Australians for marriage equality sits around 70% and has for a long time. The opposition sits with the far right faction of the current liberal government and our P.Ms unwillingness to upset his party by calling for a free parlimentary vote to legislate the change.
But anyway. Australian politics aside. This stokes is still a giant flog. No moral leap there.
Polls are polls, but the last one I read said support had dropped to 57% and opposition jumped to 34%, in 2017 that's mindblowing to me.
Anyway, agree Stokes obviously has 'issues' but just think all the bandwagon jumping by our friends down under is a bit rich. I remember Mr Ponting had some very public incidents relating to booze and scrapping, but rather than being banned for life or publically flogged he was made captain just 2 years later!
Not saying Stokes is an angel or doesn't have to make some serious changes to his life, but there is a fair amount of hypocrisy and overreaction flying about the last few days. This for the SMH was a particular favourite.
"There was a feeling in Australian cricket circles on Thursday that there was no way the ECB could allow Stokes to play in this summer's Ashes, with some saying the board risked becoming a laughing stock if he toured. There is also a belief that an Australian player would have had his contract torn up had he behaved in such a way.
Also think it's a pretty sad reflection of society that when something like this happens peoples first thought is if they have a video somewhere they can flog to the red tops.
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Stokes is still caught up in that "lad" behavior/culture. He is vice-captain of the England cricket team. That means something. I was in disbelief when I saw the fight video but this "Harvey" nonsense explains something about him and why he'd be caught in jam outside a small nightclub in a compromising situation. It hasn't sunk into his testosterone addled brain that he is representing England. And he has fans outside of England too!
Unfortunately, if Cricket is going to grow in new markets, players need to rise up to a higher level of professionalism. On the field and off the field. He could've killed those guys, they were no match for his physicality. He is a "bloody" idiot! And, he need serious psychiatric help. I hope Strauss kicks him off the team!
I have just wasted 25 seconds of my life reading that drivel... I would suggest you go and take a good long look at yourself and then hopefully realise that there are far worse things than this happening in this country right now...
Once you have done this then please step away from your keyboard and go and do some voluntary work in the community where you can probably do some good rather than typing the utter uneducated drivel you have typed here...
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Stokes is still caught up in that "lad" behavior/culture. He is vice-captain of the England cricket team. That means something. I was in disbelief when I saw the fight video but this "Harvey" nonsense explains something about him and why he'd be caught in jam outside a small nightclub in a compromising situation. It hasn't sunk into his testosterone addled brain that he is representing England. And he has fans outside of England too!
Unfortunately, if Cricket is going to grow in new markets, players need to rise up to a higher level of professionalism. On the field and off the field. He could've killed those guys, they were no match for his physicality. He is a "bloody" idiot! And, he need serious psychiatric help. I hope Strauss kicks him off the team!
You seem to forget the point im making here. I won't point it out to you. I'll give you until the asjes to figure it out for yourself.
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Putting aside his ability and what he brings to the team on the field - do we believe he deserves the right to represent his country after what's happened?
For me, to represent England is about more than just ability. It's the highest privilege in cricket and quite frankly his behavior just isn't deserving of that honor at the present time (Note present time. I'm not saying forever, but I'm saying he has to re-earn that right).
Whether he re-earns that right before or after the Ashes is down to the ECB. I would however be surprised if it's before bearing in mind they fly out in a few weeks - which is a shame for all us fans as he's pure entertainment on the field!
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Putting aside his ability and what he brings to the team on the field - do we believe he deserves the right to represent his country after what's happened?
For me, to represent England is about more than just ability. It's the highest privilege in cricket and quite frankly his behavior just isn't deserving of that honor at the present time (Note present time. I'm not saying forever, but I'm saying he has to re-earn that right).
Whether he re-earns that right before or after the Ashes is down to the ECB. I would however be surprised if it's before bearing in mind they fly out in a few weeks - which is a shame for all us fans as he's pure entertainment on the field!
He doesn't deserve to go, the ECB have done the right thing and what many other employees would do, suspended on full pay until police investigation/criminal proceedings/full ECB investigation is completed. As it stands he's brought the game and the ECB into disrepute(although the ECB manage it themselves all the time!) until that's proved otherwise he can't be picked.
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Putting aside his ability and what he brings to the team on the field - do we believe he deserves the right to represent his country after what's happened?
For me, to represent England is about more than just ability. It's the highest privilege in cricket and quite frankly his behavior just isn't deserving of that honor at the present time (Note present time. I'm not saying forever, but I'm saying he has to re-earn that right).
Whether he re-earns that right before or after the Ashes is down to the ECB. I would however be surprised if it's before bearing in mind they fly out in a few weeks - which is a shame for all us fans as he's pure entertainment on the field!
Based on your reasoning Ben... You must then believe politicians, policemen, social workers, priests, nuns, Muslim religious figures, bankers etc etc are ALL individuals that are honest, polite, non violent, uncorruptible, not sexual deviants etc etc...
Your entitled to your opinion but I would say look in the real world and realise that Stokes hasn't murdered anyone and people representing organizations bigger and socially more important than England cricket have done A LOT WORSE....
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He doesn't deserve to go, the ECB have done the right thing and what many other employees would do, suspended on full pay until police investigation/criminal proceedings/full ECB investigation is completed. As it stands he's brought the game and the ECB into disrepute(although the ECB manage it themselves all the time!) until that's proved otherwise he can't be picked.
At last.. IMO spot on... Even the correct but subtle dig at the ECB... :)
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When i started this thread i thought it would be good to start the selection debates nice and early , build up the anticipation etc etc . I could never have thought it would turn into ethical debates about drunken violence, self defence , media predatory behaviour , the use of curse words on tv , the imitation or mocking of disabled kids , and the subsequent forum arguements that have ensued . Wow . This is now getting into strange territory.
One thing I'll say .... before we curse and abuse each other just try to remember that its not so easy to be as nuanced and comprehensive in our discussions on the forum....often we read someones view and think 'thats a bit (No Swearing Please)' , but if we were actually afforded the time to hear , one on one , the persons full opinion , in full context of their life outlook generally , we might not be disagreeing so much and have a fair amount of common ground with each other .
Just my two cents .....
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I won't judge Stokes on his behaviour as i don't know all the facts and who provoked who! And I won't guess who started it.
Growing up in Slough that scene looks very familiar to me, both from viewing a scene like that whilst sitting across the street with mates eating a doner kebab and from actually being part of it.
Also the so called "mocking a disabled kid" was obviously an imitation which they found funny (and no mocking involved!). Having teenagers who have instagram, facebook and other social media stuff - most of the teenagers I met were talking about Harvey's words on TV. They were imitating it when conveying it to me although they didn't use the C word in front of me. But they all found it fantastically funny and none of them mock disabled kids! To me Stokes was doing the same. The press have jumped on the bandwagon and making it big - gutter press trying everything to get a story!
But saying the above, there are a few points I would make!
- Imitating Harvey, which is not mocking disabled kids as the press are trying say, is still something which shows a bit of an immature sense of humour! Teenagers may find it amusing but Stokes is not a teenager!
- I suspect the imitation was fueled by alcohol! He seemed pretty drunk and lets face it, we all spout total rubbish sometimes when we have had a skinful! Then we are reminded next day and feel like hiding!
- Most violence involves alcohol. The Ambulance documentary stated that 80% of injuries or call-outs they get are drink related! Alcohol is a mind-altering drug which gets rid of inhibitions, changes behavior and alters your perception of what is acceptable! 99% of humans act very differently when drinking excessively! So when people are saying he should have stopped 1 minute earlier please remember this!
Even with the above points, there are a couple of things I can state!
Stokes is NOT Vice Captain material!! If you look at Strauss, Cook, Root and most other cricketers who have Captained England, they have to be seen as an example by other cricketers. They are in a responsible position and need to act that way, both on and off the field! Therefore although we do not yet know the events leading up to the fight, and we can sometimes forgive excessive behavior caused through alcohol, we still need to ask whether Stokes should have been drinking himself into oblivion!
If he had of been sober or if he had of had 1 or 2 drinks, I suspect the evening would have been very different!
And if he is behaving like an 18 year old out on a lads night out on payday, then that isn't then kind of example an International cricketer should be showing!
I hope he loses his Vice-Captain status. And whatever the Police investigation shows, he needs to be punished for drinking excessively as this led to other events taking place! Punishment? Hit him where it hurts - in his wallet!
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I have just wasted 25 seconds of my life reading that drivel... I would suggest you go and take a good long look at yourself and then hopefully realise that there are far worse things than this happening in this country right now...
Once you have done this then please step away from your keyboard and go and do some voluntary work in the community where you can probably do some good rather than typing the utter uneducated drivel you have typed here...
You can make derogatory comments about me all you want, it still doesn't change one fact: physical battery and excessive use of force is INDEFENSIBLE. For an England vice-captain, Stokes showed extremely poor judgement by getting drunk out of his wits, getting into a fight at 2 am with nobodies, and punching someone senseless. Comparing his situation to past actions by others is just condoning bad behavior and making excuses.
Stokes needs psychiatric help and more importantly, he needs to grow the hell up!!!
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You seem to forget the point im making here. I won't point it out to you. I'll give you until the asjes to figure it out for yourself.
It doesn't matter. You are defending an indefensible position and there shouldn't be no two ways about it. Wrong is wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right.
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Stokes needs psychiatric help and more importantly, he needs to grow the hell up!!!
By claiming someone needs psychiatric help for punching someone inself defence whilst drunk is very ill educated.
No GP would waste their time with refering him for such nonsense.
Under what medical issue would you claim he needs psychiatric help for?
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It doesn't matter. You are defending an indefensible position and there shouldn't be no two ways about it. Wrong is wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right.
You're still misding the point. How can i defend something indefensible?
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Interesting comments from Nasser 'the beak' Hussain in the build up to today's odi. He was saying that if a court case is hanging over Stokes there is no way he can go to Aus- can you imagine the abuse he will get the minute he gets off the plane? If however Stokes is cleared completely he's good to go! We have been told the recipient of Stokes' (rather impressive I must admit!) right hook sustained 'facial injuries'- I feel a lot may depend on how severe these injuries are...
I think even the Aussie public will be disappointed if Stokes doesn't take part in the ashes- he is exactly the type of cricketer they like. Test match cricket will be the poor for it! Sad sad situation all round.
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You guys have a rich history of bringing your criminals to this fine country. Why should stokes be any different. :D
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Vaughan commenting today on TMS that stokes was out drinking until 3am during a test match this summer. Played the next day. Perhaps the ECB will be taking numerous issues into account.
If this incident doesn't become his 'rock bottom' and make him learn his lesson, nothing will. It looks like his incidents have escalated over years.
I was once told that life isn't about not making mistakes, its about learning from them. No one can do that but him.
He may get off lightly in terms of punishment from the police, but his history of going out and getting smashed may be more of an issue for his employer...
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Interesting comments from Nasser 'the beak' Hussain in the build up to today's odi. He was saying that if a court case is hanging over Stokes there is no way he can go to Aus- can you imagine the abuse he will get the minute he gets off the plane? If however Stokes is cleared completely he's good to go! We have been told the recipient of Stokes' (rather impressive I must admit!) right hook sustained 'facial injuries'- I feel a lot may depend on how severe these injuries are...
I think even the Aussie public will be disappointed if Stokes doesn't take part in the ashes- he is exactly the type of cricketer they like. Test match cricket will be the poor for it! Sad sad situation all round.
He hit the ground pretty hard, could have been so much worse
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Vaughan commenting today on TMS that stokes was out drinking until 3am during a test match this summer. Played the next day. Perhaps the ECB will be taking numerous issues into account.
Why is Vaughan saying that? What surprises me more is that Stokes is a fellow ISM stablemate, usually they are bullet proof
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You can make derogatory comments about me all you want, it still doesn't change one fact: physical battery and excessive use of force is INDEFENSIBLE. For an England vice-captain, Stokes showed extremely poor judgement by getting drunk out of his wits, getting into a fight at 2 am with nobodies, and punching someone senseless. Comparing his situation to past actions by others is just condoning bad behavior and making excuses.
Stokes needs psychiatric help and more importantly, he needs to grow the hell up!!!
FGS.... Please can you use facts!!! You don't know what condition he was in and what's more... Excessive use of force is NECESSARY sometimes...
You really need to find the full facts out before you make an educated assessment of someone... :)
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FGS.... Please can you use facts!!! You don't know what condition he was in and what's more... Excessive use of force is NECESSARY sometimes...
You really need to find the full facts out before you make an educated assessment of someone... :)
Excessive
ex¦ces|sive
[ɪkˈsɛsɪv, ɛkˈsɛsɪv]
ADJECTIVE
more than is necessary, normal, or desirable; immoderate:
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Why is Vaughan saying that? What surprises me more is that Stokes is a fellow ISM stablemate, usually they are bullet proof
I think there’s no doubt Stokes is in the wrong, he may well get a ban and lose his central contract but it does seem a bit open season-the media are out to get him now.
As I’ve said before this is real life, our sports stars make mistakes same as we do-some of them maybe are not nice people either
I don’t really see why Vaughan rent a quote says that.
Stokes has done wrong and will pay the price somehow....lots of people in the media are no angels making moral judgements
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Just watched the footage
Hmmm
Stokes wasn't gonna just walk away from that, he was pretty determined to land a decent punch.
And to me, he doesn't look that drunk.
I think his image has been built up, and he was trying to live up to it.
The bloke who went down after Stokes clocked him, was lucky the back of his head didn't hit the ground.
Should never have been in the situation in the first place.
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Why is Vaughan saying that? What surprises me more is that Stokes is a fellow ISM stablemate, usually they are bullet proof
Could be Vaughan is saying by playing the next day Ben can handle being out till 3am better than most.
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I think Vaughan was saying this in acceptance that Stokes has an ongoing problem and is in trouble with the ECB. The context was that the players are teated as adults - no curfews, free to soend evenings as they please - and that perhaps that needs to be looked at.
I don't think its necessarily a media free for all. There's a clear pattern to Stokes' behaviour that is relevant to the current incident. It provides context. I've been critical of Vaughan' sensationalist commentary in the past but i didn't get that thisntime, it felt more sad than anything...
Onto the other point regarding what is reasonable or excessive force, take any sentence you type and add 'your Honour' to the end of it. Just to see how it would sound in court. What we think doesn't matter, its entirely down to the police and CPS.
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Excessive
ex¦ces|sive
[ɪkˈsɛsɪv, ɛkˈsɛsɪv]
ADJECTIVE
more than is necessary, normal, or desirable; immoderate:
Lol... Unfortunately in the REAL WORLD not everything is defined by necessary, normal or desirable... Perhaps you should speak to Special Forces, anti terrorism squad's etc etc...
If only life was as simple as behaving in the manner or way the dictionary describes the word...
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I think Vaughan was saying this in acceptance that Stokes has an ongoing problem and is in trouble with the ECB. The context was that the players are teated as adults - no curfews, free to soend evenings as they please - and that perhaps that needs to be looked at.
I don't think its necessarily a media free for all. There's a clear pattern to Stokes' behaviour that is relevant to the current incident. It provides context. I've been critical of Vaughan' sensationalist commentary in the past but i didn't get that thisntime, it felt more sad than anything...
Onto the other point regarding what is reasonable or excessive force, take any sentence you type and add 'your Honour' to the end of it. Just to see how it would sound in court. What we think doesn't matter, its entirely down to the police and CPS.
Good points made in this post. I find it interesting people on this forum have very different ideas about sports people and being role models, Stokes is employed by the eco and there is a police investigation.he will have to take both consequences whatever they are....
Should we expect a whiter than white role model? I don’t think we have the right to expect that myself
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If there is a court case during the tour and with Stokes being innocent until proved otherwise Stokes could if the ECB let him go leave his legal team to sort out what's needed go to Aus England and come back for the hearing.
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Can't see him being allowed to go if he has an impending court case
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Only one knob I"m afraid... Good news for you is that you must look at him every time you look in a mirror..
Stunning wit. Well done.
England vice captain - out at a nightclub at 2:30am in the middle of a one-day series. Gets involved in a fight which he could clearly have walked away from. Yep....really intelligent.
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Can't see him being allowed to go if he has an impending court case
If there was an impending court case surely AUS would have grounds for not granting Stokes a Visa to get into the country
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First odi vs aus... who opens! Bairstow and Roy or does hales come back? (Take the incident out of the equation)
For me Roy has earns his spot and bairstow ha step hundreds in 4 games simple
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Tough but...does Hales come back for someone other than those two?
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Tough but...does Hales come back for someone other than those two?
Who opens?
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Who opens?
Tricky - depends where Stokes is. If he is in; Roy, Hales, Root, YJB, Stokes, Buttler or Morgan. If out, replace or with and?
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First odi vs aus... who opens! Bairstow and Roy or does hales come back? (Take the incident out of the equation)
For me Roy has earns his spot and bairstow ha step hundreds in 4 games simple
Root (and Stokes if he goes) will be rested at some point this winter. Probably can't have them on the other side of the world away from home for nearly 6 months straight.
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Lol... Unfortunately in the REAL WORLD not everything is defined by necessary, normal or desirable... Perhaps you should speak to Special Forces, anti terrorism squad's etc etc...
If only life was as simple as behaving in the manner or way the dictionary describes the word...
That's literally what the word means. The last time I checked, anti-terror officers don't define the English language. Something can be excessive, or it can be necessary, but not both.
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So I saw the vid the other day, then saw the KP Facebook post.
Is that Hales putting the boot in too?
Whilst many would say “that’s what I would do”, unfortunately for me he has gone too far.
I think they both should be banned from england and have their contracts terminated. There is no excuse for this sort of action, especially as someone who is a role model of the calibre of England vice-captain.
Unless they put a massive push on Stokes being apologetic etc. and remorseful I just cannot see how they can be on the plane to Aus.
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There is no excuse for this sort of action, especially as someone who is a role model of the calibre of England vice-captain.
I have until now stayed clear of this, and would like to keep doing so, but this I had to challenge. If Stokes' defence is that he was protecting others from homophobic abuse from an idiot wielding a bottle as a weapon, do you really think his internal thought process should have been "blimey, I know that lad is about to have his nose sliced off, but I wouldn't want to bring von Strauss and the ECB chappies into disrepute like. I'll just watch him bleed"?
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What is this obsession with Pro Sportspeople being 'Role Models'? On the pitch maybe kids want to emulate them but if you can't educate your kids that they shouldn't drink drive/get in fights then you've failed as a parent as you should be their Role Model!!!!
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I have until now stayed clear of this, and would like to keep doing so, but this I had to challenge. If Stokes' defence is that he was protecting others from homophobic abuse from an idiot wielding a bottle as a weapon, do you really think his internal thought process should have been "blimey, I know that lad is about to have his nose sliced off, but I wouldn't want to bring von Strauss and the ECB chappies into disrepute like. I'll just watch him bleed"?
But it's ok for stokes to punch a bloke backing away from him?
Who goes down pretty hard onto a road.!
They all look complete idiots and deserve to be judged on their unacceptable actions
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But it's ok for stokes to punch a bloke backing away from him?
Who goes down pretty hard onto a road.!
They all look complete idiots and deserve to be judged on their unacceptable actions
If there's a case to be anwsered that'will be a key factor it's difficult to claim you are protecting others you felt threaten or self defence when the other guys are backing off.
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But it's ok for stokes to punch a bloke backing away from him?
Who goes down pretty hard onto a road.!
They all look complete idiots and deserve to be judged on their unacceptable actions
If there's a case to be anwsered there's the key its difficult to provide a defence of protecting your friends /felt threatened /self defence if others can provide evidence that they were backing off
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The police are still appealing for witnesses,specifically the two men who were allegedly targeted with homophobic abuse- they haven't come forward yet:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/29/xx (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/29/xx)
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I have until now stayed clear of this, and would like to keep doing so, but this I had to challenge. If Stokes' defence is that he was protecting others from homophobic abuse from an idiot wielding a bottle as a weapon, do you really think his internal thought process should have been "blimey, I know that lad is about to have his nose sliced off, but I wouldn't want to bring von Strauss and the ECB chappies into disrepute like. I'll just watch him bleed"?
So this is what actually happened? I didn't realise they had found any witnesses to corroborate this "defence"
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1st Ashes Test - The Gabba, Brisbane. 23 - 27 November 2017
Australia XI:
Renshaw
Warner (VC)
Smith (C)
Handscomb
Maxwell
Finch
Wade (WK)
Starc
Cummins
Hazelwood
Lyon
England XI:
Cook
Stoneman
Ballance
Root (C)
Malan
Stokes (VC)
Bairstow (WK)
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
Anyone who disagrees can fight me.
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So this is what actually happened? I didn't realise they had found any witnesses to corroborate this "defence"
Nobody knows for sure other than those involved so I will be keep my powder dry before i start criticising anyone..
The main point for me is that there are witnesses and hopefully they will come forward and put an end to this sorry mess...
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Anyone who disagrees can fight me.
I'll fight you not to have Ballance at 3. I'll fight anyone so it doesnt happen.
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Ditto on Ballance,has had to many chances and nothing has changed!
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I'll fight you not to have Ballance at 3. I'll fight anyone so it doesnt happen.
Oh, I absolutely agree. But it's Ballance or James "C. 1st Slip" Vince.
I'd rather see Ballance have all 3 stumps splattered again than see Vince C. 1st Slip again. Purely for entertainment value.
But if you still want that fight...
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To be fair to Vince he was mainly caught at 2nd slip.
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@GoodLeave .... I'll fight you . No way finch should be in instead of khawaja. Name me something good finch has done in first class cricket recently ?
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@GoodLeave
England XI:
Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root (C)
Malan/Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow (WK and VC?)
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
That is more likely to be the XI. But more than the team/order, I have removed the "VC" from Stokes!
As much as I think he is a quality player, he is showing that he is not fit to be VC!
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If youve included stokes then its more of a christmas wish list than starting XI.
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@GoodLeave .... I'll fight you . No way finch should be in instead of khawaja. Name me something good finch has done in first class cricket recently ?
I've chosen Finch on current form. (Personally) I think form is transferable, so runs in ODI's should be considered "Form".
I think the team is pretty solid. Just choose any two of the four: Khawaja, Maxwell, Finch, Cartwright.
No way I'm fighting you though, why would anyone offer to fight a bloke who's nickname is "Biggie Smalls"!?
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@GoodLeave
England XI:
Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root (C)
Malan/Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow (WK and VC?)
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
That is more likely to be the XI. But more than the team/order, I have removed the "VC" from Stokes!
As much as I think he is a quality player, he is showing that he is not fit to be VC!
Can see your thinking Pete, I'm just not sold on Vince at 3 or 5. I think the only thing he's got going for him at the minute is that he's right handed. And I'm right handed, so I should stand as much chance.
Manno, you're right. I've put him in the team because I think it'll be a fine and a telling off. I don't agree with it, but I also don't agree with not walking. When there's money on the line, morals seem to go missing.
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Can see your thinking Pete, I'm just not sold on Vince at 3 or 5. I think the only thing he's got going for him at the minute is that he's right handed. And I'm right handed, so I should stand as much chance.
Manno, you're right. I've put him in the team because I think it'll be a fine and a telling off. I don't agree with it, but I also don't agree with not walking. When there's money on the line, morals seem to go missing.
I think Pete is pretty close to the team @GoodLeave , I think Vince is nailed on at 3 because Root does not want to bat there, Ballance is a number 5. could be wrong but Vince bats 3 or maybe 4 for Hampshire and opens sometimes in the shorter format.
with Root at 4 Malan is the player in position and has done ok so he stays in the team at 5 or 6.
But Stokes I can't see being there, he is odds on to miss the whole trip while the case hangs over him.
We then need another batsman instead of Stokes or another bowler-either way it's not as strong a tam by miles.
Can't help thinking someone like Samit Patel would fit in place such a shame he did not become a fully fledged test player.
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I've chosen Finch on current form. (Personally) I think form is transferable, so runs in ODI's should be considered "Form".
I think the team is pretty solid. Just choose any two of the four: Khawaja, Maxwell, Finch, Cartwright.
No way I'm fighting you though, why would anyone offer to fight a bloke who's nickname is "Biggie Smalls"!?
I see your thinking and i used to be tempted by that too... but finch's t20/odi form has never really transferred over before so i think its too risky . Maxwell and cartright have at least established solid first class stats , so id go with one of them .
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The police are still appealing for witnesses,specifically the two men who were allegedly targeted with homophobic abuse- they haven't come forward yet:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/29/xx (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/29/xx)
Apparently the guy who got punched is an Army vet!
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England Lions squad for Australia : Dom Bess (Somerset), Joe Clarke (Worcestershire), Paul Coughlin (Nottinghamshire), Alex Davies (Lancashire), Ben Duckett (Northamptonshire), George Garton (Sussex), Nick Gubbins (Middlesex), Tom Helm (Middlesex), Keaton Jennings (Lancashire), Dan Lawrence (Essex), Jack Leach (Somerset), Liam Livingstone (Lancashire), Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire), Jamie Porter (Essex), Amar Virdi (Surrey), Tom Westley (Essex), Mark Wood (Durham).
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No room for Sam Northeast, Rory Burns, Tom or Sam Curran.
There must be some serious talent in English cricket right now if those guys don't get picked.
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Bit baffled by Burns not being selected; one of the top 3 run scorers in the Championship
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No room for Sam Northeast, Rory Burns, Tom or Sam Curran.
There must be some serious talent in English cricket right now if those guys don't get picked.
Quite agree - I have nothing against anyone in the squad that was picked - they are all either young and up and coming (in the case of Amar Virdi, very young!) or recent England picks. But I am very surprised by some of the omissions - the two Curran lads, I would have expected to be in there (though I suspect Tom will play all of the ODIs and probably go on the New Zealand tour, so it is probably more a case of managing his workload), and I am amazed that Ben Coad has not been selected as one of the two standout quicks in the top division this season. I would also have thought that Matt Parkinson and Daniel Bell-Drummond might have been in there.
Burns...now there is an odd one; his method is so ugly that it is easy to miss that he does make a huge amount of runs. The only problem is, he makes them on a shirtfront at the DrOval which makes it very difficult to tell whether they are a sign of quality, or of the fact that most club players could make runs on a pitch that never deviates.
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Wasn't Tom Curran being tipped for a BBL contract?
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Coad, Burns, Hameed and the Currans were the big surprise for me, perhaps they already feel they know enough about Tom Curran but thought Sam might have gone.
*EDIT*
Unless Hameed's hand won't have recovered in time, maybe that's why he's missed out.
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Also with my bias I like both Tom/Sam, but they've hardly barked up trees this year in what has been a piss poor bowling attack. Time and time again this year they've all failed to knock tails over, depressingly bad to watch.
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None of the white ball players were selected so it makes me think that they are going to try and get them BBL contracts.
Hameed wasn't selected because of his hand injury apparently.
I do feel for Coad, Burns and Northeast though. But like others have said I don't have any issue with anyone in that squad.
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Little update on the Stokes affair:
Ben Stokes: England all-rounder to miss Ashes if inquiry ongoing when tour starts - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41490875 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41490875)
Hoping against hope that the charges are dropped...
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Yes as we thought it practically impossible for stokes to be cleared before the squad departs or for the case to be concluded in six weeks. The police don't put time limits on investigations so Stokes won't be playing in the Ashes . The ECB won't take him whilst it's on going as the article says.
The longer it goes without these two guys coming forward as well the worse it will be for him, if the two guys exist at all.
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Hoping against hope that the charges are dropped...
Really can't see that happening, I'm afraid.
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I do feel for Coad, Burns and Northeast though. But like others have said I don't have any issue with anyone in that squad.
Northeast and Burns seem to have quite idiosyncratic techniques. I wonder if that goes against them.
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Don’t think there is a cat in hells chance the charges will be dropped, it’s just a case of whether there is provocation and witnesses to back up Stokes
Abh is pretty serious and the cops won’t care how long it takes to get the evidence.
I’d be amazed if he not withdrawn from the ashes squad in the next few days
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What's going with those two "witnesses"?
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What's going with those two "witnesses"?
The police have appealed for them to come forward, Stokes is bang in trouble anyway but the police want to know if he was trying to defend them and there was provocation
There is also the possibility Stokes is lying....
Really....this is a bad situation all round , can’t remember the last time something this bad happened
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Has everyone seen the snapchat screenshots that are floating around of Hales/Stokes?
Put it this way, Stokes may never play for England again...
Although on a positive he's got his autobiography title sorted: "Girls, Cocaine & England Helmets"
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Has everyone seen the snapchat screenshots that are floating around of Hales/Stokes?
Put it this way, Stokes may never play for England again...
Although on a positive he's got his autobiography title sorted: "Girls, CHas everyone seen the snapchat screenshots that are floating around of Hales/Stokes?
Put it this way, Stokes may never play for England again...
Although on a positive he's got his autobiography title sorted: "Girls, Cocaine & England Helmets"
ocaine & England Helmets"
Only the Harvey "you're a c#*@"ones from a week or so ago , are there more?!
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Has everyone seen the snapchat screenshots that are floating around of Hales/Stokes?
Put it this way, Stokes may never play for England again...
Although on a positive he's got his autobiography title sorted: "Girls, Cocaine & England Helmets"
The Harvey price ones? Or are there ones from Bristol?
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Hales is looking great too these days, ditch a friend and run off to play gold after his arrest, kick a guy in the head when he's down. Stuff of legends. :D :D :D
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Although on a positive he's got his autobiography title sorted: "Girls, Cocaine & England Helmets"
Or just 'Helmets'?
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Haha exactly @Bats_Entertainment :D
And sadly yes, I've seen a good 10 snapchats which are simply horrendous lol (if not quite funny too) - no doubt they'll be out in the open soon enough. I'd go as far as saying they're on par/if not worse than the fight from an ECB perspective mind...
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Talk about leaving as hanging @Neon Cricket!
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Talk about leaving as hanging @Neon Cricket!
I'd say more but it's so totally NSFW I don't think half of it would get past the swear filter haha - the whole thing just reminded me of this;
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3392612/Man-said-spend-Powerball-jackpot-bunch-hookers-cocaine-apologizes-reveals-married-two-kids.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3392612/Man-said-spend-Powerball-jackpot-bunch-hookers-cocaine-apologizes-reveals-married-two-kids.html)
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I'd say more but it's so totally NSFW I don't think half of it would get past the swear filter haha - the whole thing just reminded me of this;
[url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3392612/Man-said-spend-Powerball-jackpot-bunch-hookers-cocaine-apologizes-reveals-married-two-kids.html[/url] ([url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3392612/Man-said-spend-Powerball-jackpot-bunch-hookers-cocaine-apologizes-reveals-married-two-kids.html[/url])
Sounds like a fun evening was had-up until the arrest! :o :(
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Just seen that Pattinson has been ruled out of the whole series
Whilst he wasnt a certain starter it definitely weakens the Aussie options. All we need now is Starc and Cummins to break down and Ben Stokes identical twin to come forward as the perpetrator of the Bristol assault and I reckon its about equal money
Barmy army!
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What's going with those two "witnesses"?
i think its the book of revelation.....they prophecy for 3.5yrs and bring plagues to humanity for their sins. then they're killed and left laying in the gutter .
....well, you asked :D
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41512371 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41512371)
Stokes to be awarded Central contract with ECB tomorrow
Maybe they know something not yet in the public domain?
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Still need to act along the innocent until proven guilty lines - if/when he's charged I'm in no doubt that his contract will get taken away quicker than you can shout 'amateur boxing career'.
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Still need to act along the innocent until proven guilty lines - if/when he's charged I'm in no doubt that his contract will get taken away quicker than you can shout 'amateur boxing career'.
Yeah right thing for ECB to do, as Neon says if he's found guilty then it'll be taken away instantly
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Yeah right thing for ECB to do, as Neon says if he's found guilty then it'll be taken away instantly
The brewery as withdrawn its TV add showing Cook and Stokes having an after the cricket match pint in the pub the one called its a Knockout.
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The brewery as withdrawn its TV add showing Cook and Stokes having an after the cricket match pint in the pub the one called its a Knockout.
Good job he cashed in with the IPL last season. Get the feeling he's off to the Job Centre in a few weeks.
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According to the guardian, these two guys being abused who were apparently there have still not come forward
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According to the guardian, these two guys being abused who were apparently there have still not come forward
Plot Twist: The two guys are Stokes and Hales.
(https://www.cinepremiere.com.mx/imgsHistorico/u8/040723_mnightshyamalan_bcol_2pwidec.jpg)
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^ Well, that is a possibility that we should not rule out.
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Good job he cashed in with the IPL last season. Get the feeling he's off to the Job Centre in a few weeks.
Might cash in with a BBL deal too - that could be a massive distraction if he doesn't go to the ashes but ends up at the BBL. Suspect ECB won't allow him to
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Can't see how they can stop him unless they ban him from all cricket under icc
sacking him then not issuing an NOC would be restriction of trade so can't go that avenue
Would be distracting if he smashes a hundred or 2 and we are struggling
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Might cash in with a BBL deal too - that could be a massive distraction if he doesn't go to the ashes but ends up at the BBL. Suspect ECB won't allow him to
Possibility then they may keep him on central contract but ban him for 6 months meaning he couldn't play in BBL...
If they cancel his central contract then I would expect him in BBL, IPL etc...
Just hope the decisions are made quickly by everyone involved and we can get back to cricket :)
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Can't see how they can stop him unless they ban him from all cricket under icc
sacking him then not issuing an NOC would be restriction of trade so can't go that avenue
Would be distracting if he smashes a hundred or 2 and we are struggling
Only way they can stop him playing cricket is if he is on central contract...
ICC can't do anything unless it contravenes their rules and fighting back against someone who comes at you with a bottle (currently) isn't in their rules. :) :)
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Can’t see ecb just banning him
They will sack if charged and convicted as doubts will be jail time more like probation and community service
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Can’t see ecb just banning him
They will sack if charged and convicted as doubts will be jail time more like probation and community service
Its reported that the ECB have got the CDC involved.
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The term ‘sack’ is a bit confusing.they could ban him and withdraw his central contract.
There is absolutely no way Durham could afford his salary so should the ecb cancel his contract that throws up another question-which county would pay him...
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The term ‘sack’ is a bit confusing.they could ban him and withdraw his central contract.
There is absolutely no way Durham could afford his salary so should the ecb cancel his contract that throws up another question-which county would pay him...
If it comes to it Stokes need not have a county he could be like others travel the world playing T20
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If it comes to it Stokes need not have a county he could be like others travel the world playing T20
Yes true it could..and what a massive regret that would be for a player in his prime
Call me old fashioned but nothing beats representing your country, 2020 is not test cricket
I still believe modern players see test caps as the ones they want more than anything
Perhaps I am out of date.
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The most famous players from past years (even from when T20 and ODI's were around) are Test players.
In my eyes Stokes could be one of the best all-rounders ever, as he was starting to look better and better with experience.
But at this rate, he may still be famous but for the wrong reasons!!
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Yes true it could..and what a massive regret that would be for a player in his prime
Call me old fashioned but nothing beats representing your country, 2020 is not test cricket
I still believe modern players see test caps as the ones they want more than anything
Perhaps I am out of date.
No not out of date thinking
Many players do treasure test caps but big money talks many have given up there test careers to play T20 more and more each year are seen to be travelling around the world doing so and not all are from poorer paid test playing countries or at the end of there test careers.
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The brewery as withdrawn its TV add showing Cook and Stokes having an after the cricket match pint in the pub the one called its a Knockout.
I think it was called "The knockabout"
The ones where it said Knockout were photoshopped after the event! :D
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Tour prep is going well...
ECB announce that @jbairstow21, @JakeBall & @Liam628 have been fined for unprofessional conduct. Unrelated to Stokes/Hales investigation
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Stokes travel delayed, Finn added to squad
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41522536 (http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41522536)
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Tour prep is going well...
ECB announce that @jbairstow21, @JakeBall & @Liam628 have been fined for unprofessional conduct. Unrelated to Stokes/Hales investigation
For
Being out during the ODI series until the early hours
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Ben stokes.
Steven finn
2 of these are not the same. 1 is not like the other!
England super poor in the batting department, lose an all-rounder, let's add a bowler to the squad!
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I’m gonna say this ....and I cannot stand the bloke and his fake tattoos , his selfishness and disruptive influence on the team...
But...
Kevin pieterson never did anything like this and got permanently sacked
Always trained and practised and if he did have a few beers never got in trouble.
No one could question his commitment to improve and be the best he could be.
There I’ve said it.
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Does Finn's addition suggest they will play an extra bowler?
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I’m gonna say this ....and I cannot stand the bloke and his fake tattoos , his selfishness and disruptive influence on the team...
But...
Kevin pieterson never did anything like this and got permanently sacked
Always trained and practised and if he did have a few beers never got in trouble.
No one could question his commitment to improve and be the best he could be.
There I’ve said it.
Yeah - but Ben Stokes never texted his mates in the opposition team with advice on how to get his own captain out.
Ben Stokes (to our knowledge) has never attempted to oust an existing coach
Ben Stokes (to our knowledge) hasn't belittled a debutant teammates abilities in front of the rest of the team.
They are frankly no better than each other in different ways.
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Does Finn's addition suggest they will play an extra bowler?
No - it suggests they are clueless as to the best balance of squad to pick.
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The unselectable Steven Finn has been selected wow!
I give up I actually give up! Utter nonsense selection!
Plunkett should have been the man!
It's unfathomable!
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i really don't get on the day you take away Finn's central contract you can select him for the Ashes!
this is absolutely bazaar :( :(
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So Finn has bowled well in his last match of the season at County level and not looked particularly special up until then, and is not a great batsman either.
And Plunkett has bowled well at International level (be it in ODI format) and can handle a bat too.
So let's pick Finn! :o
#BAFFLED!
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So do we reckon woakes will bat at 6 in the ashes. You know with him being a genuine all-rounder.
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Think I'll stop looking for cheap BT Sport.
We're going to get murdered, aren't we.
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Can only presume they believe Finn does more with the red ball than any other option.
Wasn't it reported they felt Plunkett didn't do enough with the red ball had no lateral movement.
can get away with that in white ball apparently, but not with a red kook that will move for 20 over max?
Personal opinion is we need an extra bowler for the tests, 3 seamers and a spinner would be a lot of strain on them over 5 tests when we'll be bowling twice in 1.5 days at this rate.
But theres definitely not enough depth in batting, proves where Stokes was so valuable to this side as he appeared to mature on the pitch less so off it.
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Disagree, i like Finn. Its unfortunate graeme Smith messed him up a bit. His not likely to play anyway, is he? Probably a good drinks carrier.
With Woakes Moeen and Bairstow we have alot of allrounder that allow us to pick an extra bat or bowler dependant of the wicket. We are quite lucky with all rounders even if stokes cannot play.
Plunkett should be there but his only bowled 43 overs in county cricket this year. So i can understand why theyve not picked him.
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Disagree, i like Finn. Its unfortunate graeme Smith messed him up a bit. His not likely to play anyway, is he? Probably a good drinks carrier.
With Woakes Moeen and Bairstow we have alot of allrounder that allow us to pick an extra bat or bowler dependant of the wicket. We are quite lucky with all rounders even if stokes cannot play.
Plunkett should be there but his only bowled 43 overs in county cricket this year. So i can understand why theyve not picked him.
Are you even a real fan if you agree with the national selectors in any sport? ;)
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...His not likely to play anyway, is he? Probably a good drinks carrier.
I think theyve got a few of them already, why they need another is beyond me!
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So do we reckon woakes will bat at 6 in the ashes. You know with him being a genuine all-rounder.
yes
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The fact only eight players have been awarded central contracts for tests, says it all about how unsettled those three other slots are...
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So do we reckon woakes will bat at 6 in the ashes. You know with him being a genuine all-rounder.
Yes !
And if we had picked Samit Patel it gives an option to have a decent player below him who does both bat and bowl
Even us Middlesex supporters cannot say Finn deserves a spot
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I agree Samit looked the most obvious like for like replacement (assuming that we wouldn't go back to Tim Bresnan or Rikki Clarke as one series stop gaps). I'm assuming they'll have YJB at six, Ali seven, Woakes 8 and Overton 9, which would be a reasonable lower order, were it not for the flaky as all hell top order above it.
I like the point about fans agreeing with selectors. But here is the think - my other sport is Rugby Union, and I rarely have major disagreements with the side that Eddie Jones picks. I might have "favourites" who I think should be considered, but the fact is Eddie's choices have gravitas. Whittaker and his joke mates, not so much...
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I agree Samit looked the most obvious like for like replacement (assuming that we wouldn't go back to Tim Bresnan or Rikki Clarke as one series stop gaps). I'm assuming they'll have YJB at six, Ali seven, Woakes 8 and Overton 9, which would be a reasonable lower order, were it not for the flaky as all hell top order above it.
I like the point about fans agreeing with selectors. But here is the think - my other sport is Rugby Union, and I rarely have major disagreements with the side that Eddie Jones picks. I might have "favourites" who I think should be considered, but the fact is Eddie's choices have gravitas. Whittaker and his joke mates, not so much...
batting wise yes samit would be a decent replacement however i think he'd get into trouble hooking and wafting the short ball on a quick bouncy track he'd be caught fine leg a lot.
bowling do we need another off spinner?
i think we can rule out a like for like (yes i know theyve plumped for finn) but there isnt another player who can do what stokes can, bat at 6 on merit and be one of your main seamers on merit plus be a gun fielder, there isnt many people who have that ability at all in world cricket right now, for me Shakib is about the only other genuine all round (happy to be proven wrong) and hes on a break from test cricket (again happy to be proven wrong), one day S Curran could fill those shoes as he bowls and bats but hes no where near the required level at either yet!
for me plunkett would have been the choice but as theyve gone for finn lets back him after all he didnt have THAT bad of a series in 2010 the only reason he was dropped was runs he was still taking wickets, you dont become the fastest englishman to X (50 or 100 cant remember the stat) number of wickets without being talented besides remember edgbaston in the last ashes here! he bowled magnificently!
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batting wise yes samit would be a decent replacement however i think he'd get into trouble hooking and wafting the short ball on a quick bouncy track he'd be caught fine leg a lot.
bowling do we need another off spinner?
i think we can rule out a like for like (yes i know theyve plumped for finn) but there isnt another player who can do what stokes can, bat at 6 on merit and be one of your main seamers on merit plus be a gun fielder, there isnt many people who have that ability at all in world cricket right now, for me Shakib is about the only other genuine all round (happy to be proven wrong) and hes on a break from test cricket (again happy to be proven wrong), one day S Curran could fill those shoes as he bowls and bats but hes no where near the required level at either yet!
for me plunkett would have been the choice but as theyve gone for finn lets back him after all he didnt have THAT bad of a series in 2010 the only reason he was dropped was runs he was still taking wickets, you dont become the fastest englishman to X (50 or 100 cant remember the stat) number of wickets without being talented besides remember edgbaston in the last ashes here! he bowled magnificently!
Would say you have nailed it on the head about Samit and Plunkett... :)
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Are you even a real fan if you agree with the national selectors in any sport? ;)
My bad.
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Would say you have nailed it on the head about Samit and Plunkett... :)
Look, I'm usually the first to spot the slight on the Yorkshire lad but really, Plunkett has no red ball form to speak off for two years or more and is not quite quick enough to be the hurry up merchant people are expecting. Not saying Finn would have been my pick, but I can sort of see why Liam wasn't.
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Samit bowls left-arm.
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Samit bowls left-arm.
Bowls left hand, bats right, eats with both... :D
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Bowls left hand, bats right, eats with both... :D
No off-spinner; never off dinner.
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No off-spinner; never off dinner.
A man who believes a balanced diet is a Big Mac meal in each hand!
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Still trying to understand a world where you can fine YJB. I mean, its YJB
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Still trying to understand a world where you can fine YJB. I mean, its YJB
Quite. He's not another angry Ginger haired larrikin in his spare time at all!
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Look, I'm usually the first to spot the slight on the Yorkshire lad but really, Plunkett has no red ball form to speak off for two years or more and is not quite quick enough to be the hurry up merchant people are expecting. Not saying Finn would have been my pick, but I can sort of see why Liam wasn't.
Point taken but for me on those Australian wickets I would pick Plunkett to bowl the same back of a length delivery he does in one day cricket.
Plunkett also has a great shorter ball that he aims at the body with decent pace...
Too many demons for Finn in Australia and Plunkett is a better bat and fielder.. :)
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Take your point about batting and fielding, but surely someone with some red ball form has to be taken.
Not certain who, mind. For pure pace, I wonder whether Mark Footitt could have been a wild card?
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And therein lies the question. Who else, apart from Overton is a ‘hurry up merchant ‘?
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And therein lies the question. Who else, apart from Overton is a ‘hurry up merchant ‘?
And that is the other Overton!
From what I have seen, the quickest are Footitt, Archer and on his day Meaker. Matt Fisher and Josh Tongue have the potential to make it there, and some say Tom Helm can to, though I have not seen it.
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Meaker in Australia would be a disaster. Please don't entertain the though.
Again, YJB being fined is madness. He's the kind of bloke who would help your nan with her shopping
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I saw a bit of Olly Stone on sky during one of the T20 games,he hit 90 mph a couple of times. Otis Gibson talked him up as a prospect. Has had injury troubles though.
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Mark Footitt got an injury after joining Notts and did not play. If he'd have reproduced his early season form he'd have been in with a strong shout.
Meaker? Don't be ridiculous!
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Quite. He's not another angry Ginger haired larrikin in his spare time at all!
But he does seem to change his bat sponsor quite often.
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Mark Footitt got an injury after joining Notts and did not play. If he'd have reproduced his early season form he'd have been in with a strong shout.
Meaker? Don't be ridiculous!
I was not for a moment proposing that any of those listed be selected, I was merely saying they were amongst the fastest men in the Championship last season, more to illustrate the paucity of options than anything!
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Always felt a special batsman or bowler was being considered Finns selection is due to the notion that pace and bounce in OZ (69 wickets last series to seamers ) wins matches therefore it should have been Plukett but it's obvious now that the selectors see him as an ODI only player.
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According to the BBC hales isn't expecting any charges against him, he should be available for the Odis after the ashes if that is the case unless the ecb suspends him
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I find it strange that Hales's lawyer has come out and said he doesn't expect a charge when it's an ongoing investigation.
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I dont.
Neither will get charged, and stokes will play Ashes. Ecb and a sympathetic police will massage a suitable outcome for the sake of national sporting success. Sad but true.
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That's great news Manno,I do hope you're right! Ashes success comes before crime and punishment in my book!
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I dont.
Neither will get charged, and stokes will play Ashes. Ecb and a sympathetic police will massage a suitable outcome for the sake of national sporting success. Sad but true.
Aussies would do the same
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I dont.
Neither will get charged, and stokes will play Ashes. Ecb and a sympathetic police will massage a suitable outcome for the sake of national sporting success. Sad but true.
"a sympathetic police"? Really? If Stokes were Joepublic, I doubt he would even be under investigation - man wields bottle, man gets smashed, end of. The ECB treatment of him is so far removed from what any normal person would see.
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Yeah really. I can assure you, if joepublics boss saw footage of that he'd soon be joeunemployed.
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Yeah really. I can assure you, if joepublics boss saw footage of that he'd soon be joeunemployed.
Really? *takes law degree off shelf*
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"Man wields bottle, man gets smashed, end of. Your honour, i rest my case!"
Stokes needs you on his legal team.
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Yeah really. I can assure you, if joepublics boss saw footage of that he'd soon be joeunemployed.
Not sure who you work for but not a chance my current (or any of my previous for that matter) bosses would sack me because of a fight on a night out....
Work is Mon-Fri, whatever you do at the weekend is up to you unless you are, on that night out, directly representing your company.
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According to Vaughan on the Tuffers and Vaughan show,as it was mid-ODI series,Stokes was still"at work" at 2am in Bristol on 25th September...
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Not sure who you work for but not a chance my current (or any of my previous for that matter) bosses would sack me because of a fight on a night out....
Work is Mon-Fri, whatever you do at the weekend is up to you unless you are, on that night out, directly representing your company.
If it gets out in the press who your employers are then they are well within their right to dismiss you for bringing the companies name into disrepute
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"a sympathetic police"? Really? If Stokes were Joepublic, I doubt he would even be under investigation - man wields bottle, man gets smashed, end of. The ECB treatment of him is so far removed from what any normal person would see.
you make it sound acceptable that he punched him. How about man wields bottle other man thinks i'm not getting involved in this (especially as i'm an international sports superstar) i'm going go home
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Not sure who you work for but not a chance my current (or any of my previous for that matter) bosses would sack me because of a fight on a night out....
Work is Mon-Fri, whatever you do at the weekend is up to you unless you are, on that night out, directly representing your company.
When you're an international sports star, pretty much everything you do represents your employer.
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you make it sound acceptable that he punched him. How about man wields bottle other man thinks i'm not getting involved in this (especially as i'm an international sports superstar) i'm going go home
So if someone comes at you with a bottle you’re going to say “jolly-ho I’m off now”?
I’ve seen a friend nearly die after being smashed on the head with a bottle, you think that just because Stokes happens to be good at cricket, he should be able to laugh off someone trying to seriously injure him?
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So if someone comes at you with a bottle you’re going to say “jolly-ho I’m off now”?
I’ve seen a friend nearly die after being smashed on the head with a bottle, you think that just because Stokes happens to be good at cricket, he should be able to laugh off someone trying to seriously injure him?
Having watched the video again, if there is a bottle involved, it gets dropped in the first few seconds. It's at this point that a sober Ben Stokes might have thought better of it.
Employment wise, it probably reflects badly on you as a person if a video emerges of you fighting on a night out. Even if you are Joe Public.
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So if someone comes at you with a bottle you’re going to say “jolly-ho I’m off now”?
I’ve seen a friend nearly die after being smashed on the head with a bottle, you think that just because Stokes happens to be good at cricket, he should be able to laugh off someone trying to seriously injure him?
Yes, you run away. Sorry if that doesn't match up to the brain dead manly/macho do him before he does you thinking. Not like he was pinned in the corner with no way out.
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Why is this still being discussed? 😂
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Funny world we live in.
Stokes is being vilified for not running away and standing up for himself.
Dan bilzerian ran away from a man shooting at a crowd from a vantage point, and he's being vilified for not helping and shooting back.
Not sure anyone can win either way
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Funny world we live in.
Stokes is being vilified for not running away and standing up for himself.
Dan bilzerian ran away from a man shooting at a crowd from a vantage point, and he's being vilified for not helping and shooting back.
Not sure anyone can win either way
To be fair Dan Blitz claims hes the best of the best, he may have gone back later on but his initial reaction was to film it for instagram.
I dont blame him I'd be the first away from it all but i dont claim to be what he says he is.
But yes noone will win because there's a expectation of perfection.
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So who are the other 2 participants in the Stokes brawl? Have they been identified anywhere?
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you make it sound acceptable that he punched him. How about man wields bottle other man thinks i'm not getting involved in this (especially as i'm an international sports superstar) i'm going go home
Is it acceptable? That is a very difficult call, because we only have what is doubtless the most damning possible edit of the footage on which to go - because, lets face it, The Sun sell more newspapers if they can drag Stokes through the mire. Based on that footage, you have a guy wielding a bottle in an aggressive manner - that immediately brings a defence of self defence into play, and you have to bear in mind that the proportionality of that self defence is not what some of the keyboard warriors on here feel is reasonable from their moral high horse, but what the person legitimately feeling threatened feels is necessary.
In fact, were it not for the clear pause between actions, I doubt anyone would be concerned. But yes, there is a clear pause, and those last couple of shots take some explaining. In a court of law, that is not as hard as one might think - after all, the guy being punched clearly initiated the overall aggression, but on film it looks uncomfortable.
My concern here is, he was not at work when it happened, and defending yourself is not cause for a disrepute charge in any event.
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Back on cricketing terms, I'm really not sure that Australia are as good as they think they are. Other than Smith/Warner, their batting line-up is relatively weak in comparison to ours... I think we have a decent chance out there.
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Back on cricketing terms, I'm really not sure that Australia are as good as they think they are. Other than Smith/Warner, their batting line-up is relatively weak in comparison to ours... I think we have a decent chance out there.
renshaw , and in particular, khawaja and handscomb will make plenty of runs on home wickets.....i said it before - english supporters will see the arrival of handscomb as a test batsman of much merit.
Having said that , the batting lineups could be quite evenly matched still. cook, root , bairstow , ali , woakes , possibly stokes vs renshaw, warner , smith , khawaja , handsomb is pretty even . the aussies have home wickets on our side . poms have possibly one more batsman of note (and a deeper batting order , period ) in your favour.
the deciding factor could well be the bowling attacks. I think woakes , anderson will have moments of effectiveness aswell as getting pasted when using the old ball unless it reverses. broad , stokes , finn (dont know much about overton etc ) can be more effective more often if they bowl aussie lengths. ali should have a similar effectiveness to lyon provided he stays didiplined. however , i think starc , Hazelwood and cummins should regularly outbowl the english seamers, thus allowing aussie ashes victory.....unless more than one of them get injured ( with pattinson out , we only have coulter nile and behrendoff in reserve ....i dont think bird or sayers would have much impact tbh).
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renshaw , and in particular, khawaja and handscomb will make plenty of runs on home wickets.....i said it before - english supporters will see the arrival of handscomb as a test batsman of much merit.
Having said that , the batting lineups could be quite evenly matched still. cook, root , bairstow , ali , woakes , possibly stokes vs renshaw, warner , smith , khawaja , handsomb is pretty even . the aussies have home wickets on our side . poms have possibly one more batsman of note (and a deeper batting order , period ) in your favour.
the deciding factor could well be the bowling attacks. I think woakes , anderson will have moments of effectiveness aswell as getting pasted when using the old ball unless it reverses. broad , stokes , finn (dont know much about overton etc ) can be more effective more often if they bowl aussie lengths. ali should have a similar effectiveness to lyon provided he stays didiplined. however , i think starc , Hazelwood and cummins should regularly outbowl the english seamers, thus allowing aussie ashes victory.....unless more than one of them get injured ( with pattinson out , we only have coulter nile and behrendoff in reserve ....i dont think bird or sayers would have much impact tbh).
Not an unfair assessment - I would say it slightly more simply, that in the conditions Australia have the bowlers to take wickets throughout the innings, whereas England will struggle when the ball goes old.
You would hope it will be a competitive series, but it's going to be a tough one for England to win.
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If Stokes is not involved for England to win unless the ball reverses Stuart Broads fitness experience will be the key.
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If Stokes is not involved for England to win unless the ball reverses Stuart Broads fitness experience will be the key.
And his pace needs to be up .
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I’m expecting a close series perhaps not a classic looking at the players on both sides!
Not expecting Stokes to be involved at all which is a blow for us as far as cricket on the field goes
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Lehmann has said our allrounder policy at no6 is out the window....potentially opening the door for s.marsh , n.maddinson , t.head etc . I wouldn't mind Head ( fattus should jump all over that comment ! Haha ) in the side , but not the other two. I really hope we pick maxwell or cartwright at 6 .
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I would have thought that the Big Show had probably done enough to be given another shot at six?
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I would have thought that the Big Show had probably done enough to be given another shot at six?
Although , as the incumbent, he would still be the front runner for the number 6 position, he hasn't scored a half century in any format for 27 innings . Also , some consider him a slow/turning/subcontinental style pitch specialist re tests ( this is in part to him being considered a batting allrounder /spin option ) . In oz conditions his spin is not nearly as useful or valuable and is essentially challenging for the position just as a specialist batsman , and when you consider australia have dropped their policy of selecting an allrounder at all times , then he no longer is a certainty. It will be a 'bat off' between all the potential candidates in the first 3 shield games leadibg up to the first test .
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From the pictures emerging from stokes’ wedding his hand doesn’t look too good!
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Warner appears to be doing the interview rounds at the moment. Seems to have an unhealthy obsession with Ben. I wonder if they're shaping up excuses in case a miracle happens and we win?
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Unless Warner is talking about how to hit a ball very hard a very long way i feel that life is much too short to place any value on what he has to say.
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^LOL
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I love the way the Oz structure works. Test players/hopefuls turning out for their club side.
https://twitter.com/CricketAus/status/922247411510030336
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I love the way the Oz structure works. Test players/hopefuls turning out for their club side.
https://twitter.com/CricketAus/status/922247411510030336
Agree, was discussing this on the weekend, unfortunately we had a wash out in Brisbane grade (sorry QLD premier) so didn't get on, but otherwise would had a few current test players taking on the locals, can't think of too many other sports where you get the chance as a good club player to mix it up with the best in the world.
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I love the way the Oz structure works. Test players/hopefuls turning out for their club side.
https://twitter.com/CricketAus/status/922247411510030336
Playing devil's advocate...How is this any different to a Club cricketer dropping 4 divisions down to smash a bit of easy bowling?
I'm sure the opposition thought the same, what a waste of a Saturday. Only difference is they saw a test player get some easy runs
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Playing devil's advocate...How is this any different to a Club cricketer dropping 4 divisions down to smash a bit of easy bowling?
I'm sure the opposition thought the same, what a waste of a Saturday. Only difference is they saw a test player get some easy runs
If you are a test player you are a first class player when no tests are being played . If you are a first class player you are a grade player when no first class games are being played . So a test player with no test or first class cricket to play can play grade .
Or to put it another way ....all players must have a club . They play at the highest grade unless higher honors call. Test players are just first grade players who have been called up to higher honors and are busy with representing their state or country too often to fulfil their grade duties very often . If only it was like the good ol days where those pesky state and national selectors wouldnt pinch players all the time...then internationals would be playing first grade all the time.
Whichever way you look at it , these players belong to a grade club and can play for them as much as they want/are available to do so . If you dont allow them to play where does it stop ? Are state 2nd xl players not allowed either ? Are former test or former first class players not allowed? If so, what constitutes as 'former' ? 10 yrs ? 20 yrs ? 5 yrs ? 1 day ?
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Playing devil's advocate...How is this any different to a Club cricketer dropping 4 divisions down to smash a bit of easy bowling?
I'm sure the opposition thought the same, what a waste of a Saturday. Only difference is they saw a test player get some easy runs
Or to answer your question another way .....
There are rules that prevent a 1st grade player dropping 4 grades . There are no rules preventing test player dropping down to play for their club ( in fact , it is encouraged whenever possible). So the difference is the rules .
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Pre T20 Gravy train, international players would retire spend a season or two playing state cricket, retire then spend a few years back playing solely club cricket, it was not uncommon to have ex-internationals sliding down through the grades helping the young ones come through,
as I said T20 killed that, now players will play for as long as they can in the cash up circus until the body breaks.
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Playing devil's advocate...How is this any different to a Club cricketer dropping 4 divisions down to smash a bit of easy bowling?
I'm sure the opposition thought the same, what a waste of a Saturday. Only difference is they saw a test player get some easy runs
Guess it depends on what discipline you are. I bet watching the ball whistle past your nose is much less fun that watching the ball whistle back over your head to the boundary.
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Guess it depends on what discipline you are. I bet watching the ball whistle past your nose is much less fun that watching the ball whistle back over your head to the boundary.
First one is usually over a bit quicker though.
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Playing devil's advocate...How is this any different to a Club cricketer dropping 4 divisions down to smash a bit of easy bowling?
I'm sure the opposition thought the same, what a waste of a Saturday. Only difference is they saw a test player get some easy runs
I do take your point but i like to think of it the other way round..... the club/grade players get the chance to test themselves against the best, whether it be the ball whistling past their noses or bowling to top quality batters. It is then that you truely find out what you are made of.
Remember, it doesn't always go the way of the pro's.... Maxwell got naff all playing for his club side... got cleaned up after 4 balls... and imagine the feeling that bowler would have got from that.
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Anyone else looking forward to a change with BT sport coverage?
We are getting Matt Smith and Alison Mitchell who I think is very good.
On the field Graham gooch called Woakes a fantastic cricketer....can he see what some cannot ?
(http://)
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Not a fan of Alison Mitchell at all, Smith is good though.
Will miss Athers personally, and the occasional 15mins cameo from Bumble.
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Yes Athers is excellent, very good writer as well for the times
I do think it was getting a bit stale thou with sky
Rumours they were dumping both am and Gower last year proved wrong.
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Not sure how this has reached 36 pages already; I've quite liked nothing thinking about English cricket for 4 weeks since the season ended...
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And now what is your team / squad without Stokes?
Cook
hammeed
Stoneman
root
malan
stokes
bairstow
ali
woakes
Roland jones
anderson
Squad:
westley
broad
foakes
buttler
wood
crane
squad of 17
yes ive dropped broad but i think TRJ has bowled much more attackingly and looks in much better form at the moment he also hasnt gone at a stupid high run rate either and stregthens the batting which is our weakness too
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Trj would def be on the tour but he is out injured which mAkes selection harder
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Not sure how this has reached 36 pages already; I've quite liked nothing thinking about English cricket for 4 weeks since the season ended...
I think Stokes-gate takes up about 20 of the pages mate.
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I think Stokes-gate takes up about 20 of the pages mate.
Oh I was over that after about 2 days of accepting he's not going to play.
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I was over it when I saw him deck the idiot!
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Although Stokes will not be travelling with the team it has not been ruled out that he will join the tour at some stage.
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Working security I imagine.
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To do what exactly? Punch some more lockers?
Also FWIW I liked Warner's comments about hatred and war, gives the lads something to gee themselves up about
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To do what exactly? Punch some more lockers?
Also FWIW I liked Warner's comments about hatred and war, gives the lads something to gee themselves up about
Yes, because simply playing in the biggest series in world cricket isn't enough for the "lads" to "gee themselves up about"...
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Nah it's not. Expect some talk, react to it. Simple stuff, really.
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Nah it's not. Expect some talk, react to it. Simple stuff, really.
I've often described Warner as that, yes...
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Id give the left side of my brain to be simple like Warner.
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There's a crayon in my brain? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWiT4jT1NWU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWiT4jT1NWU)
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One for the Aussie Forumites...
I am interested in the below article about Cowan being dropped from the NSW team, it seems as though this has caused quite a big deal in Oz? Smith is saying Daniel Hughes a possible test spot?
https://coupler.foxsports.com.au/api/v1/article/amp/cricket/australian-captain-steve-smith-confirms-he-intervened-to-ensure-ed-cowan-was-axed-from-nsw-team/news-story/8b861dd4f15882a99529719f31bedb84
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One for the Aussie Forumites...
I am interested in the below article about Cowan being dropped from the NSW team, it seems as though this has caused quite a big deal in Oz? Smith is saying Daniel Hughes a possible test spot?
https://coupler.foxsports.com.au/api/v1/article/amp/cricket/australian-captain-steve-smith-confirms-he-intervened-to-ensure-ed-cowan-was-axed-from-nsw-team/news-story/8b861dd4f15882a99529719f31bedb84
It is controversial in the sense that Cowan topped the shield in runs last year, but not in the sense that the average fan either doesnt know , doesnt care , or doesnt think highly of Cowan in the first place .
For me personally, Cowan is my favourite cricketer , so I'm not happy about it at all .
Re Hughes being a future test player , well thats not impossible, but i dont think you can judge too accurately at this embryonic stage of his career . I haven't seen anything yet to suggest he's any better , or worse, than a dozen or so peripheral players .
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When I first saw the story I assumed that this Hughes lad was a young wondered who'd not managed to get consistently picked yet, Mason Crane at Hampshire kind of situation perhaps. Just looked... he's 28?! I know nothing about the bloke, but I'd hazard a good guess that if he can't get in his state team at 28 then I doubt the thought of bowling to him is keeping Anderson and Broad up at night. Something smells bad, what's going on?
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KP is so supportive!
http://www.espncricinfo.com/video/clip?id=21169831 (http://www.espncricinfo.com/video/clip?id=21169831)
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Is there a way to listen to Ashes via some streaming service for folks in US?
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KP is so supportive!
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/video/clip?id=21169831[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/video/clip?id=21169831[/url])
But is he wrong?!
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But is he wrong?!
Yes he is, absolutely wrong. We(England) are not great, but neither are the Aussies.Stokes is a massive blow if he does not tour(I think the ECB are about to announce he is not going because the police investigation is taking a long time)
We got world class players, but not many of them, the Aussies have about the same as us.
Australian bowling probably better than ours, our batting has more depth.
Could be close, I think thou to be honest, cook,root,Stoneman, and bairstow are going to have to score very heavy.
And Chris woakes needs a very good tour, he has it in him..... :)
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https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4784329/ben-stokes-praised-by-gay-couple-after-defending-them-from-homophobic-thugs/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4784329/ben-stokes-praised-by-gay-couple-after-defending-them-from-homophobic-thugs/)
This may change things...
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^ Good! This could exonerate him! But please Benji, no more late outings during Ashes.
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But is he wrong?!
I feel there is a lot of exaggeration about England's weaknesses! Team Aus hasn't been that hot lately and it is certainly NOT the 2013 Aus team. I say England has a shot, with our w/out Stokes.
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https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4784329/ben-stokes-praised-by-gay-couple-after-defending-them-from-homophobic-thugs/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4784329/ben-stokes-praised-by-gay-couple-after-defending-them-from-homophobic-thugs/)
This may change things...
It could indeed. They have finally come forward, odd looking pair of blokes!. The Sun has this story and it was the Sun that published the video...I dunno, something seems a bit odd can't quite put my finger on it.
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odd looking pair of blokes!
I wouldn't say too much more, Ben might come over and chin you!
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KP is so supportive!
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/video/clip?id=21169831[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/video/clip?id=21169831[/url])
doesn't hold back does he, I agree with what he said but as a ex-player would not make my opinion public.
As for stokes, as an Aussie/cricket supporter I would love to see him available to play, when we beat you we want to know it's the best team England can put on the park.
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I dont know how a pair of grateful gay blokes changes stokes actions. The timing makes it very obvious just how staged and coached the response will be. But again, this is all just part of massaging stokes through to the ashes. Ecb will have everyone from lawyers to pr working on this. See you soon stokes!
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Interesting looking wicket at the GABBA....
http://live.cricket.com.au/m/#/2029/42109/news (http://live.cricket.com.au/m/#/2029/42109/news)
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I’m not convinced by anything those two blokes have said. The whole bump and grind thing to say hello is ridiculous. The fact they just casually walk off to leave stokes defending their honour to go and get chips, the timing is all very convenient. The fact it happens to be the sun who have the exclusive again. I also refuse to believe that Ben Stokes can be described as “Fit” 😂
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Interesting looking wicket at the GABBA....
[url]http://live.cricket.com.au/m/#/2029/42109/news[/url] ([url]http://live.cricket.com.au/m/#/2029/42109/news[/url])
standard Gabba deck don't be fool with the slight tingle of green, it's fast with nice carry, if you get yourself in runs will flow.
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Also found the article from the sun odd...lacking details about the incident itself yet they can remember Ben asking them where they were going.
Went for chips when they were about to get bottled hmm
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https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4784329/ben-stokes-praised-by-gay-couple-after-defending-them-from-homophobic-thugs/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4784329/ben-stokes-praised-by-gay-couple-after-defending-them-from-homophobic-thugs/)
This may change things...
If the article is correct it can only help Stokes protecting the innocents and all that as for getting the chips in the guys say themselves fights and fast food is what they are used to all part of a night out in Bristol.
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Yes he is, absolutely wrong. We(England) are not great, but neither are the Aussies.Stokes is a massive blow if he does not tour(I think the ECB are about to announce he is not going because the police investigation is taking a long time)
We got world class players, but not many of them, the Aussies have about the same as us.
Australian bowling probably better than ours, our batting has more depth.
Could be close, I think thou to be honest, cook,root,Stoneman, and bairstow are going to have to score very heavy.
And Chris woakes needs a very good tour, he has it in him..... :)
Couldnt agree more particuarly regarding Woakes England cant leave it to Anderson and Broad especally now if theres no Stokes can he deliver match winning bowling for England in oz hope he can but not convinced
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Bit odd to me the sun got access to the CCTV and then find two witnesses the police were looking for but couldn’t find
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Bit odd to me the sun got access to the CCTV and then find two witnesses the police were looking for but couldn’t find
Yes! That's what I was thinking, they come forward in the press the day of the press conference to leave for Oz..
I dunno something is not right here, maybe I'm off on the wrong road but it seems a bit weird, the Sun seems to have all the exclusives in a modern world of social media where not much can be kept secret.
Supposedly the police will make an announcement next week about he case, if that's the two guys have been found and will back stokes up, it's a bit late now.
Whatever happens it appears there is something Stokes and his legal team can grip onto, and no doubt they will.
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Just be the by the time limit for the coppers to charge Stokes has passed so unless there is new evidence he will be on the plane.
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Shock Horror! There is corruption within the Britsh Judicial and Legal systems! I never would have believed it
Lets be honest - if Tony Blair can still go about his business, the bankers who gambled other peoples hard earned cash are still counting their earnings and Piers Morgan is free to chat (No Swearing Please) to whoever is lonely enough to listen then the least we can do is embrace the corruption and get that lad Stokes on the plane. What he has done is nothing in comparison to Illegal Wars and Phone Hacking.
If these two gay lads coming forward (no pun intended) lead to Stokes being involved with the Test matches I will wear a rainbow vest and denim hot pants to the WACA. Go on the fake gays!
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Yes! That's what I was thinking, they come forward in the press the day of the press conference to leave for Oz..
I dunno something is not right here, maybe I'm off on the wrong road but it seems a bit weird, the Sun seems to have all the exclusives in a modern world of social media where not much can be kept secret.
Supposedly the police will make an announcement next week about he case, if that's the two guys have been found and will back stokes up, it's a bit late now.
Whatever happens it appears there is something Stokes and his legal team can grip onto, and no doubt they will.
Money talks... They sold their story.
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I'm sure you are right Woody. I often wonder if we have any journalists on the forum who know how the press works, I'm not talking financial times correspondent, I mean daily star, Sunday sport, you know really grass roots scandal down-in-the-dirt white Mac and camera sort.
:)
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I'm sure you are right Woody. I often wonder if we have any journalists on the forum who know how the press works, I'm not talking financial times correspondent, I mean daily star, Sunday sport, you know really grass roots scandal down-in-the-dirt white Mac and camera sort.
:)
You mean the pond life? :D
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Saying that I’d love a job at the Sunday sport!!!
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Is there a way to listen to Ashes via some streaming service for folks in US?
It’ll be on TMS with the BBC. You’ll probably be able to listen directly through the BBC website or maybe their app.
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Shock Horror! There is corruption within the Britsh Judicial and Legal systems! I never would have believed it
Lets be honest - if Tony Blair can still go about his business, the bankers who gambled other peoples hard earned cash are still counting their earnings and Piers Morgan is free to chat (No Swearing Please) to whoever is lonely enough to listen then the least we can do is embrace the corruption and get that lad Stokes on the plane. What he has done is nothing in comparison to Illegal Wars and Phone Hacking.
If these two gay lads coming forward (no pun intended) lead to Stokes being involved with the Test matches I will wear a rainbow vest and denim hot pants to the WACA. Go on the fake gays!
If you do wear a rainbow vest and denim hot pants just remember the usual forum rules - it didnt happen /doesnt exist without photos , detailed specs are mandatory, and InternalTraining will need to know if its got a bow and a thick toe ! :D :D :D
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It’ll be on TMS with the BBC. You’ll probably be able to listen directly through the BBC website or maybe their app.
Thank you. Hopefully BBC will not restrict it based on geolocation.
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No Country restrictions on live bbc radio I don’t think. Always get people having a mention on TMS from some obscure location around the world.
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Well , after a round of shield games no batsmen have really grabbed a hold of the number 6 spot , although cartwright did ok with a 60 odd . Khawaja's place was always safe but nice to see him get a ton . And the keepers spot is still debatable too.
Probably the best thing this round was Starc getting 8for with the pink ball at Adelaide. ....looks like anderson and woakes wont be the only guys reaking havoc during the Adelaide test....although I'd love to see sayers given a go with the new ball there while hazlewood sits out for one test.
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Well , after a round of shield games no batsmen have really grabbed a hold of the number 6 spot , although cartwright did ok with a 60 odd . Khawaja's place was always safe but nice to see him get a ton . And the keepers spot is still debatable too.
Probably the best thing this round was Starc getting 8for with the pink ball at Adelaide. ....looks like anderson and woakes wont be the only guys reaking havoc during the Adelaide test....although I'd love to see sayers given a go with the new ball there while hazlewood sits out for one test.
Yep it's really interesting being able to watch the Shield games to see how the Aussies are going etc...
Cricket Australia website has loads of great video links to matches if you fancy watching...
http://www.cricket.com.au/ (http://www.cricket.com.au/)
Ominous viewing below - Starcs wickets including an absolute nut to get Travis Head 1st ball.
http://live.cricket.com.au/m/#/2029/42110/news (http://live.cricket.com.au/m/#/2029/42110/news)
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Yep it's really interesting being able to watch the Shield games to see how the Aussies are going etc...
Cricket Australia website has loads of great video links to matches if you fancy watching...
[url]http://www.cricket.com.au/[/url] ([url]http://www.cricket.com.au/[/url])
Ominous viewing below - Starcs wickets including an absolute nut to get Travis Head 1st ball.
[url]http://live.cricket.com.au/m/#/2029/42110/news[/url] ([url]http://live.cricket.com.au/m/#/2029/42110/news[/url])
Yeah i was kinda peeved that the domestic one dayers were only on the website instead of on tv... but the massive upside has been to be able to watch shield games for the first time in years .
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Sayers has been a stand out for the last 3 years in Shield cricket but unfortunately for him he doesnt play for NSW.
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Has the Aussie selection principal changed in the last few years? The system where the captain did not get involved in selection appears to be not worth the paper it is written on.
Clarke faced the same NSW favourites policy and it appears Smith does now. I can recall Clarke fell out with selectors at the end as he was not getting the team he wanted?
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Quite funny from Finn...
https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/925641472673591296
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A great start.. Mo and Finn going for scans on injuries and won't be available for the 1st warm-up match.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/11/02/england-injury-scares-steven-finn-moeen-ali-head-scans-will/amp/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/11/02/england-injury-scares-steven-finn-moeen-ali-head-scans-will/amp/)
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Don’t panic lads, vince don’t think the ball will move about batting at 3 and gaz balance could be number 5
Anyone else get the feeling the wheels might come off this tour ?
:)
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Don’t panic lads, vince don’t think the ball will move about batting at 3 and gaz balance could be number 5
Anyone else get the feeling the wheels might come off this tour ?
:)
Looking at the squad we've taken over, were the wheels ever on?
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Im actually fairly confident to be honest.. If we bowl in the right areas they can fall just as quickly. Besides Warner and Smith i can't name a solid batting line up. England have Cook Root Ali Bairstow..and even Woakes is a happy hooker so he might enjoy himself.
Don't see why anyone can be bothered by bouncers anyway, if you're not comfortable dont play it, they cant get you out then
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Im actually fairly confident to be honest.. If we bowl in the right areas they can fall just as quickly. Besides Warner and Smith i can't name a solid batting line up. England have Cook Root Ali Bairstow..and even Woakes is a happy hooker so he might enjoy himself.
Don't see why anyone can be bothered by bouncers anyway, if you're not comfortable dont play it, they cant get you out then
Plenty of non hookers have been dismissed via defending bouncers to various parts of the body, self preservation style.....do i really need to direct people to the cricket australia website to view all of Mitchell Johnson's dismissals from last ashes in oz ?
Also , as ive said before , english fans will see the arrival of Handscomb as a test batsman of note . Khawaja will make plenty of runs and Renshaw wont do any worse than whoever opens with cook ( will probably do much better tbh ).
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Plenty of non hookers have been dismissed via defending bouncers to various parts of the body, self preservation style.....do i really need to direct people to the cricket australia website to view all of Mitchell Johnson's dismissals from last ashes in oz ?
Also , as ive said before , english fans will see the arrival of Handscomb as a test batsman of note . Khawaja will make plenty of runs and Renshaw wont do any worse than whoever opens with cook ( will probably do much better tbh ).
You know how so many people look at smith's technique and never cease to be amazed by how successful he is ? Well , get ready to have similar thoughts re Handscomb (relatively speaking of course , im not saying he will be an instant world beater). People will be endlessly intrigued by someone standing so deep in their crease that when they play without moving they are still further back than anyone taking the largest of backfoot movements . They will also be intrigued by him batting on the crease , playing forward , using his feet to spin , and think Handscomb facing spin is a completely different technique/batsman to the version that faces pace. He will be effective .
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We'll win the series with only a few of the players consistently contributing.
Cook, Stoneman, Root, JB, Mo, Woakes and Jimmy
Foakes will be in the side before the end of the series and will do well.
Crane will play 1 test and take wickets
Broad won't last the tour
Malan will start poorly and then make a spectacular score in about the 3rd test
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Aussie batting line up has been much better since the got a couple of English blokes into it.
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Aussie batting line up has been much better since the got a couple of English bloke into it.
I always thought aussies taking the piss out of england for having so many o.s players ( particularly saffas) was sooo yawn inducingly boring and irrelevant. I think the same now .
But if you want to know the background of the player who will have by far most influence on the ashes ....its Croatian.
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I always thought aussies taking the piss out of england for having so many o.s players ( particularly saffas) was sooo yawn inducingly boring and irrelevant. I think the same now .
But if you want to know the background of the player who will have by far most influence on the ashes ....its Croatian.
Simon Katich is coming out of retirement?!
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You know how so many people look at smith's technique and never cease to be amazed by how successful he is ? Well , get ready to have similar thoughts re Handscomb (relatively speaking of course , im not saying he will be an instant world beater). People will be endlessly intrigued by someone standing so deep in their crease that when they play without moving they are still further back than anyone taking the largest of backfoot movements . They will also be intrigued by him batting on the crease , playing forward , using his feet to spin , and think Handscomb facing spin is a completely different technique/batsman to the version that faces pace. He will be effective .
You've basically just described Gary Ballance.....
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Simon Katich is coming out of retirement?!
Yep , and he'll be bowling southpaw thunderbolts !
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You've basically just described Gary Ballance.....
Gaz tries to get on the front foot from that position or , weight wise, plays 'playing from the crease' shots, whereas Handscomb plays true backfoot shots from those positions .
But thats fine , we'll compare handscombs and ballances averages at the end of the ashes and see who was more effective then .
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Eurgh
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Gaz tries to get on the front foot from that position or , weight wise, plays 'playing from the crease' shots, whereas Handscomb plays true backfoot shots from those positions .
But thats fine , we'll compare handscombs and ballances averages at the end of the ashes and see who was more effective then .
Deal, as long as we can include the comparison for the Aussie 6, 7 & 8 against Bairstow, Ali & Woakes. ;)
With any luck Ballance won't play a game, even if he does, he'll just be facing Lyon & whatever no-one allrounder they pick for Number 6 with Cummins, Starc & Hazlewood looking on from the Physio Table.... :)
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Oh good. I was getting kind of bored of the forum "You'll win, we're rubbish. No, you'll win, we're rubbish" niceties.
Let the best POHMS win!
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I always thought aussies taking the piss out of england for having so many o.s players ( particularly saffas) was sooo yawn inducingly boring and irrelevant. I think the same now .
But if you want to know the background of the player who will have by far most influence on the ashes ....its Croatian.
Len Pascoe?
It was pretty tounge in cheek. As a half German Scotsman supporting England from Norway I don't give too much value to nationality.
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@Biggie Smalls firstly why qoute yourself when you posted the previous one.. Secondly you mossed the point completely
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@Biggie Smalls firstly why qoute yourself when you posted the previous one.. Secondly you mossed the point completely
Its like tagging on extra info / t.b.c etc .....wouldnt make much sense if i just replied and someone else had posted in the interim ( my post wouldnt have been the last one then).
If ive mossed the point , sorry , but it sounded like oz have just two batsmen and if you dont play hooks you wont get out to bouncers ....if thats way off the mark you can always clarify , no ?
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Nov 4th western australian xl vs england to be televised on bt sport .
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Nov 4th western australian xl vs england to be televised on bt sport .
where did you find that? I checked bt sport tv guide for a start time, but no mention of it?
http://sport.bt.com/tv-guide-01363810618853 (http://sport.bt.com/tv-guide-01363810618853)
unless im blind (quite probably :D)
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where did you find that? I checked bt sport tv guide for a start time, but no mention of it?
[url]http://sport.bt.com/tv-guide-01363810618853[/url] ([url]http://sport.bt.com/tv-guide-01363810618853[/url])
unless im blind (quite probably :D)
On cricket australia website it was promoting the stream on the site and stated it was unavailable to u.k and n.z , but u.k could watch it on bt sport.
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Its like tagging on extra info / t.b.c etc .....wouldnt make much sense if i just replied and someone else had posted in the interim ( my post wouldnt have been the last one then).
If ive mossed the point , sorry , but it sounded like oz have just two batsmen and if you dont play hooks you wont get out to bouncers ....if thats way off the mark you can always clarify , no ?
The comment on woakes was slightly unrelated to the first part, he pulls well so i dont think he would be overly troubled. But there's been alot of england batsman fending off bouncers and getting out. All im saying here is dont play it all and you can't get out.
Linked in with Sachins series of no Cover drives, kept getting out playing it so decided not to play it. Its simple really.
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The comment on woakes was slightly unrelated to the first part, he pulls well so i dont think he would be overly troubled. But there's been alot of england batsman fending off bouncers and getting out. All im saying here is dont play it all and you can't get out.
Linked in with Sachins series of no Cover drives, kept getting out playing it so decided not to play it. Its simple really.
I'd like to see it being 'simple' & 'easy' when someone is smashing it in half-way down at you at 90mph at the Gabba!
I get your point, but I think you might be underplaying some bowling skill here.
Anyway, here's one for the Aussies, who are you hoping will be picked at 6 and to keep wicket?
As a Pom I'd like to see Cartwright/Maxwell and Wade, but as a cricket fan I'd quite like to see Stoinis and Nevill, Stoinis looks like a decent allrounder and has a bit of something about him. Nevill is obviously the better gloveman, and I can't really see much between their batting, Wade gets hyped up because he's a mouthy so and so behind the stumps, and Smith likes that....
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Maybe i am but its not like it cant be replicated evem with bowlers theres always matting that can be experimented with that can speed up the surface
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Finn and ali to miss the first 2 warm up games. Tours already a shambles
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Finn and ali to miss the first 2 warm up games. Tours already a shambles
Get Samit on an effin plane! Finn, may sound harsh but who gives, if it gets to the point where he's playing then we're (No Swearing Please) anyway.
Re. the Aussie side - thought Cartwright looked a decent player in his first test? Haven't seen him since mind. As for the keeper, surely Australia can produce someone who can both catch and bat? Or at least pick a bloke who can do one of the two rather than picking someone purely on their ability to be a dick. Smith seems to have forgotten Brad Haddin was an adequate test cricketer in addition to being an utter plonker.
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Indeed ...I was just thinking if Ali is unfit who is our frontline spinner?
I’m sure it’s just a precaution but you never know.
I’m voting Samit too.
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Interesting from Cricinfo. You'd imagine Ball would have the more likely chance of playing based on him being more regular in the set up recently.
"The most intense competition for places would appear to be between Jake Ball and Craig Overton for the final seam-bowling spot and Dawid Malan and Gary Ballance for the No. 5 batting spot. At present, it seems Overton and Malan have their noses in front but a persuasive performance over the weekend could yet sway things."
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Interesting from Cricinfo. You'd imagine Ball would have the more likely chance of playing based on him being more regular in the set up recently.
"The most intense competition for places would appear to be between Jake Ball and Craig Overton for the final seam-bowling spot and Dawid Malan and Gary Ballance for the No. 5 batting spot. At present, it seems Overton and Malan have their noses in front but a persuasive performance over the weekend could yet sway things."
Supposedly Overton's ability to field at Slip for the Spinner (vacated by Stokes) and batting prowess have pushed him up the pecking order.
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Supposedly Overton's ability to field at Slip for the Spinner (vacated by Stokes) and batting prowess have pushed him up the pecking order.
I’d actually like to see Overton picked I think he could cause real problems and I don’t think he’d back down when the verbals start, I’m expecting him to possibly start them tbh! Seems in the stokes character mould hopefully without the rocky balboa gene though!
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Nov 4th western australian xl vs england to be televised on bt sport .
Just got in touch with them through live chat on their website and they said they won't be showing it on a channel or through an online stream so looks like it's not going to be viewable in the UK unless anyone else has any ideas?
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Would Ali really be much of a threat in the series anyway on their decks? I see him as just trying to tie up an end whilst the quick at rotated, if that's the case surely Samit would be up to that task anyway, even Root at a push for more than his usual couple of overs maybe?? Samit offers with the bat too to make up for Ali not playing.
Hope Overton get the nod be good to see a young tall quickie let loose, slightly unknown to the Aussies compared to the other options so may bode well in our favour.
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Well...in the past the wickets have been good for batting, lots of sun and clear skies often means it's hard work for the medium pacers(we don't have anyone quick, the Aussies do thou).
Wouldn't be surprised at all if Mo got as many wickets, or was at least up there, with broad and Anderson.
The tour before the thrashing last time, tremlett and Bresnan won us a couple of games when it did move around a bit.
Our bowling can be a bit ordinary on flat pitches, if we had picked Samit could of been an option.
Makes no sense to me he is not on the tour-and nothing to do with stokes going or not going. I think Lyon will do well also, because we don't have really high class players of spin on the tour. Root and Cook are pretty good. Stoneman, Malan,ballance,Vince? Not sure about Vince and Malan, Ballance I've watched before and not great against the turning ball.
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Tibetan and vince with a pair of 80s over night
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Not a bad start balance and malan both in the side maybe fighting for no 5- Dawid played the last tests thou..
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Looks like WA is giving everyone a bowl, 8 bowlers used so far. Runs against a few part timers it seems
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Malan and ballance into the 40s
Might be against part timers but root and cook failed so good Time isn’t he middle for those 4 will boost confidence
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stoneman and vince with 80s, malan and ballance with 50s...if you had to pick four guys to make runs in the first innings on tour it would have been those guys.
pitch looks pretty good for batting , bowling attack looks rather ho hum apart from ncn (but as expected we werent nice enough to select a proper w.a side). still, good hit out for the eng batsmen and a solid way to start the tour.
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Irrespective of opposition, i think for the first warm up match everyone would rather see those 4 score runs to stake their claim, rather than a failure and the usual 2 score?
It gives a boost to those that scored, increases competition in the squad, relieves a tiny bit of pressure on AC,JR, even JB to some extent that they have to score
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WA playing a Shield Match v NSW in Sydney...
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Gaz at #6. Touch me
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bairstow has raced to 31 from 28 ( he hit 4 4s in the last over). he looks in fine touch (always looks in good nick when he plays his late cut well). Woakes 11 from 37 looks in good ,steady nick too.
This is the type of good form i want to see from england before the first test. particularly post stokesgate , i really want to see england firing - to make a good tight ,close series . It will feel much better if Australia manage to win the series against a well performed side and not a rabble that wasn't able to get it together after all the recent dramas.
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Balance batting at 6 is excellent! He’ll score a lot of runs there
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Dear o dear. Gary Ballance is an appalling international cricketer. I'm not sure how many failures he needs for you guys to wake up. Practice games don't count.
On the other hand, Mo Ali is possibly the most underrated international cricketer in the world. I think he will play very well in the Ashes.
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Maybe we are going to pack the batting and go in without a specialist spinner if Moeen is out? Malan bowls a bit of Chinaman,plus root can turn his arm over for a few.
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Just reading some of the early reports and although it is great to see the new guys in the runs what the scorecard doesn't say is Vince was dropped 4 times and twice were in the slips after the usual woft outside off stump :( :(
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Just seen the replay of Root's wicket. Clearly came off the back leg. Nowhere near the bat! Needless to say he wasn't very happy...!
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Just seen the replay of Root's wicket. Clearly came off the back leg. Nowhere near the bat! Needless to say he wasn't very happy...!
Are there any highlights available?
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Just reading some of the early reports and although it is great to see the new guys in the runs what the scorecard doesn't say is Vince was dropped 4 times and twice were in the slips after the usual woft outside off stump :( :(
If vince hits 100 in the first innings of the series and is dropped 5 times... what will we all be talking about the hundred or the drops, they all look the same in the book! He has runs under his belt and that’s what matters nice little confidence boost especially facing coulter Nile with an early wicket
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Are there any highlights available?
http://www.cricket.com.au/video/england-wa-xi-video-highlights-match-report-mark-stoneman-james-vince-dawid-malan/2017-11-04 (http://www.cricket.com.au/video/england-wa-xi-video-highlights-match-report-mark-stoneman-james-vince-dawid-malan/2017-11-04)
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Cheers @Hoover
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If vince hits 100 in the first innings of the series and is dropped 5 times... what will we all be talking about the hundred or the drops, they all look the same in the book! He has runs under his belt and that’s what matters nice little confidence boost especially facing coulter Nile with an early wicket
Yes agreed it is a nice confidence boost and i would also take a 100 no matter how it comes, all i am pointing out is that Vince is still doing what he was doing when he was dropped and i also don't see the Aussie slip cordon dropping those catches.
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Just for your info.
WA team is full of State U19 and "Futures League " ( the old 2nd xi) players, all First Grade Club players. Voges, Mitchell Johnson and Stewie Walters all declined playing. All 6 First Class teams are playing Shield matches. WA Futures League start a 4 dayer on Monday so all in all the young guys have done pretty well given the selection restrictions.Also it is the second day of 2 day grade cricket so they couldn't pick all the best players. They should go ok with the bat as there is some decent players there.
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[url]http://www.cricket.com.au/video/england-wa-xi-video-highlights-match-report-mark-stoneman-james-vince-dawid-malan/2017-11-04[/url] ([url]http://www.cricket.com.au/video/england-wa-xi-video-highlights-match-report-mark-stoneman-james-vince-dawid-malan/2017-11-04[/url])
Thanks mate
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Great day for England, selectors got a good look at all the question marks,
most test teams which come here look pretty ordinary in the warm up, but the poms look good today
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Malan bowls a bit of Chinaman
He does?
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Hoping Calum How goes well for WA team was our overseas a couple of years back. Great bloke and very talented scored 1000 runs in Yorkshire Prem league when he was 17 for us. Looks like Root got a poor decision but steady start for England boys shame they couldn't convert to hundreds!
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Cook lasted two balls!! What is going there?! Sheesh!
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With regard to Stokes Just been reading the write up of the two footballers who were involved in a late night fight and a guy recieved a broken jaw one has community service and the other a fine so if Stokes is found to be guilty maybe simular will happen.
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With regard to Stokes Just been reading the write up of the two footballers who were involved in a late night fight and a guy recieved a broken jaw one has community service and the other a fine so if Stokes is found to be guilty maybe simular will happen.
Fingers crossed it's a fine and he can get on the soonest flight to Australia then!
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Surely keeping the providing thrilling entertainment for the less intellectual folk down under is enough community service?
On a serious note he does alot in the community anyway so the judge should consider that and only issue a fine because community service wouldn't be a punishment
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Anyone know if there's a live stream of the practice match available anywhere?
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Anyone know if there's a live stream of the practice match available anywhere?
http://live.cricket.com.au/#/1974/41917/overview (http://live.cricket.com.au/#/1974/41917/overview)
free subscription and works in Aus not sure about outside
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Any views on how we have bowled?
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They are 300-8. Jimmy only has 4, because he's (No Swearing Please) anywhere but england
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Any views on how we have bowled?
Anderson with 4 wickets, Overton & Crane 2 each and 1 for broad. WA 319-9. From sky write up bowled ok seems to be what they are saying most of top 6 of there line up got a start
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Espn say Ball got the other not Broad
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Espn say Ball got the other not Broad
My bad my not have been broad then
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i watched until wa were 1-120. eng bowling too short or too full. Philipe was looking very comfortable at about 85 at a run a ball.
Eng must have adjusted lengths after 1st session or perhaps got the ball reversing a bit.
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Mitchell Starc just took a hat trick against the WA tail and gave SA a cricket lesson last week. Form looks solid.
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Mitchell Starc just took a hat trick against the WA tail and gave SA a cricket lesson last week. Form looks solid.
hope the poms pack their steel toe cap boots
http://www.cricket.com.au/news/match-report/nsw-blues-wa-warriors-day-three-sheffield-shield-live-nevill-cartwright-smith-warner-cummins-starc/2017-11-06 (http://www.cricket.com.au/news/match-report/nsw-blues-wa-warriors-day-three-sheffield-shield-live-nevill-cartwright-smith-warner-cummins-starc/2017-11-06)
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hope the poms pack their steel toe cap boots
[url]http://www.cricket.com.au/news/match-report/nsw-blues-wa-warriors-day-three-sheffield-shield-live-nevill-cartwright-smith-warner-cummins-starc/2017-11-06[/url] ([url]http://www.cricket.com.au/news/match-report/nsw-blues-wa-warriors-day-three-sheffield-shield-live-nevill-cartwright-smith-warner-cummins-starc/2017-11-06[/url])
Seeing Starc clean up tailenders is not new news. I would argue the more obinious signs were Hazelwood's opening spell 1st game back after injury. Getting both Marsh brothers and Cartright for nothing.
http://live.cricket.com.au/m/#/2029/42111/news (http://live.cricket.com.au/m/#/2029/42111/news)
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Seeing Starc clean up tailenders is not new news. I would argue the more obinious signs were Hazelwood's opening spell 1st game back after injury. Getting both Marsh brothers and Cartright for nothing.
[url]http://live.cricket.com.au/m/#/2029/42111/news[/url] ([url]http://live.cricket.com.au/m/#/2029/42111/news[/url])
not a bad attack, NSW
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not a bad attack, NSW
They've got a pretty good side full stop at full strength let alone the attack
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So it's just been announced Finn will miss the ashes. Who do you think should replace him? For me must be Plunkett or Wood
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And Starc takes his SECOND hat trick for the match. Good signs heading into the first test.
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I'd presume it'll be Plunkett, most like for like replacement.
Wouldn't grumble if Jamie Porter got a call up though - definitely one for the future if his 2017 stats are anything to go by.
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So it's just been announced Finn will miss the ashes. Who do you think should replace him? For me must be Plunkett or Wood
Ben Stokes?
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And Starc takes his SECOND hat trick for the match. Good signs heading into the first test.
Impressive stuff but aren't they pretty much all tailenders (his victimsover the two hat tricks have a combined average of around 60), something England aren't like to have more than a couple of in their 11?
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Ben Stokes?
Nothing will change whilst the case is ongoing, and the CPS aren't going to speed things along for the sake of England Cricket. They're notorious for taking their time and the more Strauss and co keep kicking up a fuss the longer they'll likely take (just yesterday Strauss was doing yet another press release regarding the situation).
Stokes has about as much chance of playing in the first test as I do... lol
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Team for the 1st Class warm up game announced too.
Cook, Stoneman, Vince, Root, Malan, Bairstow, Woakes, Overton, Ball, Crane, Anderson
Broad rested and Ali injured, so depending on how this game goes I would think the Brisbane test will be this with Ali for Crane and Broad for Ball/Overton
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Wouldn't grumble if Jamie Porter got a call up though - definitely one for the future if his 2017 stats are anything to go by.
I would, he's got a stress fracture to his back, likely beck for the start of the county season I'd guess.
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I'd hope it'll be Wood I think he offers something different to Broad and Woakes, but I doubt he will be able to stay fit with his biscuit bones. So I presume it'll be Plunkett.
*Edit*
Scrap that because about Wood, hes not fit enough to be considered apparently and plunkett isnt with the lions, if thats their idea, pick the call ups from their?
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Plunkett should hopefully take up the spot vacated by Finn being injured AGAIN!!!! He should have been their instead in the first place anyway
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I cant spell....I quit for the morning
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Outside bet on Tom Curran to get a call up?
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Has anyone read the Pominshambles article on the BBC sport page, it reveals the secret of Mitchell Johnsons spectacular bowling was humming songs from frozen to block out the barmy army.
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I thought Plunkett wasn't in the lions because of the t20 tournament he is waiting to play in? I would play Wood if they are going to use him as an impact bowler but if he's going to be required to bowl more than 5 overs in a spell Plunkett is the man there really isn't many more options with international experience etc. Tom Curran is not a bad shout but to similar to other bowlers in the squad.
Alot of people writing England off but I still think as it stands both sides are fairly similar they have a more potent attack but I think we have the stronger batsmen. Shaping up to be a good series.
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With Finn out, surely they will call up Plunkett. One of the few bowlers we have who can 'hurry up' the Aussie batsmen. He can also add valuable runs down the order and has substantial experience.
Ball sounds like he has found the right length straight away, and as he can bowl in the upper 80's (mph), more pace than most (fit) England options. Irrespective of the quality of the opposition, bowling in the right place is a huge positive.
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Impressive stuff but aren't they pretty much all tailenders (his victimsover the two hat tricks have a combined average of around 60), something England aren't like to have more than a couple of in their 11?
Yes, I guess, but 35 overs at 2.5 runs per over is an excellent performance for the match. He has dominated the first two Shield games of the season against full strength sides.
You will not get an idea of the English teams preparation from the trial games against teenage, fringe first class players. Frankly, I'd love to see guys like Mark Stoneman play well and make a name for themselves but the trial games are pathetic.
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I thought Plunkett wasn't in the lions because of the t20 tournament he is waiting to play in? I would play Wood if they are going to use him as an impact bowler but if he's going to be required to bowl more than 5 overs in a spell Plunkett is the man there really isn't many more options with international experience etc. Tom Curran is not a bad shout but to similar to other bowlers in the squad.
Alot of people writing England off but I still think as it stands both sides are fairly similar they have a more potent attack but I think we have the stronger batsmen. Shaping up to be a good series.
Wood has been wrongly used by England
if selected he is your bang it in bowler no more than 5 over spells.
But it should be Plunkett the fittest of all the bowlers does nothing wrong when he plays but is seen by the England camp as a one day specialist.
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Yes, I guess, but 35 overs at 2.5 runs per over is an excellent performance for the match. He has dominated the first two Shield games of the season against full strength sides.
You will not get an idea of the English teams preparation from the trial games against teenage, fringe first class players. Frankly, I'd love to see guys like Mark Stoneman play well and make a name for themselves but the trial games are pathetic.
I agree, the warm up games offered to touring sides has pretty much become a race to the bottom in recent time, which benifits nobody.
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I agree, the warm up games offered to touring sides has pretty much become a race to the bottom in recent time, which benifits nobody.
I agree ....all test nations are guilty and should be embarrassed. If i were ecb i would tried to have eng play lions in a 3 or 4 day warm up game. Two birds with one stone .
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I agree ....all test nations are guilty and should be embarrassed. If i were ecb i would tried to have eng play lions in a 3 or 4 day warm up game. Two birds with one stone .
Not to mention embarrassing when the lions win, or rig the sides so it’s england bowlers vs England batters and lions vs lions
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Team is out for the next warmup:
Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Malan
YJB
Woakes
Overton
Ball
Crane
Anderson
Looks like that gives us a pretty good idea of the test side then, Ali and Broad in for Crane and one of Overton/Ball. Don't think Vince will last the series tbh!
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This tour feels like a trainwreck and it hasn't even started
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Get Stokes on the bloody plane.
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He'll punch the engine and it'll crash
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This tour feels like a trainwreck and it hasn't even started
This is how every Ashes tour went between 1994 and 2007. I've been having Joey Benjamin flashbacks...
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Feel really sorry for Steve Finn having to return home with a torn knee cartilage. Be interesting to see who, if anyone, gets called in as replacement, given England already have Ball and Overton as well as Broad and Anderson. Finn's injury may be a factor in any decisions over Ben Stokes, although I don't think he will play any tests, but will be included in the white ball cricket, pending any decisions / outcomes on his conduct in Brizzle.
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This is how every Ashes tour went between 1994 and 2007. I've been having Joey Benjamin flashbacks...
Test bowling average of 20 ;)
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Sometimes the figures do lie.
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It’s happening again isn’t it :/ barely a week in and already a man down :/
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Are you that worried @alexhilly1492 - for me Finn was unlikely to feature in the test side and frankly lucky to be on the tour.
His replacement options are the unselected Plunkett or someone from the lions squad who should probably be ahead of him in the pecking order anyway!
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The older Currant has been called up.
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The older Currant has been called up.
Told you all ;)
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If Finn got anywhere near the side we'd have had it by that point anyway, surely noone can be that upset about it? He got dropped halfway through an Ashes series even when at his absolute best, and he's nowhere near that now.
Given that the available spot is for effectively a 6th choice seamer, I'd rather see a bolter called up than a steady bowler like Plunkett - Plunkett's not going to let anyone down but if whoever is in the squad as the 6th seamer gets to actually play a test then we'll probably be in need of a bit of inspiration! George Garton/Tom Helm/Tom Curran perhaps.
edit: ah, Tom Curran. The predictable option really, hard to argue too much with that.
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Are you that worried @alexhilly1492 - for me Finn was unlikely to feature in the test side and frankly lucky to be on the tour.
His replacement options are the unselected Plunkett or someone from the lions squad who should probably be ahead of him in the pecking order anyway!
It just seems whenever we go to aus (2010-11 excluded) it all goes t*ts up!
I agree Finn shouldn’t have been there in the first place but I’ve given up on that arguement and I’m just gonna back whoever is there!
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Barmy army, Barmy army,athertons barmy army!!!
And repeat
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Barmy army, Barmy army,athertons barmy army!!!
And repeat
Quite right. Back your team no matter what.
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I will always enjoy any Surrey representation and seeing an increase of 3 players does warm the cockles of my heart, but without bringing up his stats it hardly feels like Curran did much in Div 1, some proper garbage bowling during periods. He was already due to be out there for the Big Bash anyway.
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Tom Curran has been called up, flying out tomorrow
https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/510862/tom-curran-to-replace-steven-finn-in-england-s-ashes-test-squad (https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/510862/tom-curran-to-replace-steven-finn-in-england-s-ashes-test-squad)
Edit... Beaten to it earlier it seems!
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Not saying he's a name for the England squad at the moment, as he is very inexperienced, but it would be good to see how young Josh Tongue fares out training with the Lions squad.
Only 19, 6 foot 5, and bowls up to about 90mph. On paper he suits the Aussie conditions.
One for future tours maybe?
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Tom Curran - good call. Great experience for the lad. Whether Finn, Plunkett or now Curran would / may play in the Tests was / is doubtful of course, but a) you need back up for injuries or if one bowler is consistently going round the park, and b) the batsmen need decent net bowlers in order to prepare, with those in the squad or on the periphery of the team hoping to impress.
Can't wait for the Ashes to start....
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Not saying he's a name for the England squad at the moment, as he is very inexperienced, but it would be good to see how young Josh Tongue fares out training with the Lions squad.
Only 19, 6 foot 5, and bowls up to about 90mph. On paper he suits the Aussie conditions.
One for future tours maybe?
Good shout.
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I think Curran looks a good player, seen him live at Durham in the T20 against West Indies and he looked like he hurried the batsmen more than the other English lads, bowled slippery skiddy stuff similar to Stokes, something a bit different from the rest of the bowling line up imo.
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Wood has been wrongly used by England
if selected he is your bang it in bowler no more than 5 over spells.
But it should be Plunkett the fittest of all the bowlers does nothing wrong when he plays but is seen by the England camp as a one day specialist.
Completely agree we should be using him like the Aussies used Mitchell Johnson against England and South Africa. As for Curran I think he is a very good player but he should be competing with Overton for that position. I think Curran is being groomed for Broads position one day same for Woakes replacing Jimmy. I suspect he's in the squad for the experience and might play the odd game which is likely at the moment. If Ali isn't fit for the first test we are in big trouble.
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The tour is a complete and utter disaster already.
Yes really.... I mean has anyone seen James Andersons Ashes diary? It's boring
So much so I was on you tube last night revisiting yet again Swannys brilliant videos from 2011.
As we started winning it just got better
we were really 500-1 at once stage
Pinch me I must have been dreaming
Come on the lads !!!! :)
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Get the Cricket australia app, register and you can watch the live stream of the england warm up game for free
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BT sport are showing streaming it on their Facebook page.
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Malan showing some graft. Fair play.
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Woakes > Stokes
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Guys am I right in if by sport appears in your channel listings the ashes are on it-you don’t need to do anything
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Once again the crap Newbery stickers are shown up on TV.
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Cook's struggling. What's going on?!
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I watched KPs 227 in Adelaide to make myself feel slightly better. Does the job for about 3 minutes.
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I watched KPs 227 in Adelaide to make myself feel slightly better. Does the job for about 3 minutes.
I had to watch the 1st day of the Boxing Day Test in 2010 twice the other day.
Intravenous Ashes uppers ...
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You guys suck - you're taking all the fun out of it . You're meant to be all bright eyed , bushy tailed , brimming with confidence. ....then let Australia beat you in the Ashes ! It's no fun if you're lamenting a series loss before it's even started . :) :D :D :D
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You guys suck - you're taking all the fun out of it . You're meant to be all bright eyed , bushy tailed , brimming with confidence. ....then let Australia beat you in the Ashes ! It's no fun if you're lamenting a series loss before it's even started . :) :D :D :D
Bright eyed bushy tailed and brimming with confidence .... When looking at the bowling England have I feel depressed.
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You guys suck - you're taking all the fun out of it . You're meant to be all bright eyed , bushy tailed , brimming with confidence. ....then let Australia beat you in the Ashes ! It's no fun if you're lamenting a series loss before it's even started . :) :D :D :D
We are English, although some of us are not exactly pure of blood, so we generally look on the pessimistic side.
However...... :) you cannot rule out the possibility Stokes does get on the plane, fights his way thru the crowd with the Aussies chanting(ironic really) ball and chain, ball and chain.....sledges all the Aussies on the way to the wicket hits a hundred and then bowls all you lot out.
Well....it's Ashes cricket, anything is possible right?
Celebrates with room service and call of duty just to be on the safe side.
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Oh dear, Jake Ball off injured... next please! Likely to be a harder decision this time too, probably safe to assume that Plunkett is out so Tom Helm next in line?
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If he wasn’t already....Chris Woakes just became crucial to us competing on this tour
Mason crane seems very highly rated, could we play two spinners in most of the tests? Looking more possible, Anderson broad and Woakes cannot be bowled into the ground-we have lost if they do
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If he wasn’t already....Chris Woakes just became crucial to us competing on this tour
Mason crane seems very highly rated, could we play two spinners in most of the tests? Looking more possible, Anderson broad and Woakes cannot be bowled into the ground-we have lost if they do
I like the look of Crane but he's a typical young leggie I think, he'll take some wickets but he'll go for some runs too, might be a bit too much of a luxury at the moment.
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I think I might cry
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I think I might cry
Don't cry, Mason Crane just bowled a maiden, he's gonna save us all
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Hang in there Rick
For those old enough on the forum may remember Martin Johnson in the independent on tour back in the eighties writing
There’s only 3 things wrong with the England team, they can’t bowl, they can’t bat and they can’t field.
We won that test series in Oz.
:)
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Why am I sad about a bloke with a test bowling average of 114 being injured.
Might just money on 5-0
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If he wasn’t already....Chris Woakes just became crucial to us competing on this tour
Mason crane seems very highly rated, could we play two spinners in most of the tests? Looking more possible, Anderson broad and Woakes cannot be bowled into the ground-we have lost if they do
If England play two spinners. in Aus there's no way they will take 20 wickets needed to win also only one test venue is known to spin.
Without doubt Woakes is crucial but can he take wickets / win matches for England away from the UK.
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Seniorplayer - if only one venue in Australia spins, which one do you mean?
Gabba, where Warne said was his favourite place to bowl
Adelaide, where Swann bowled out Oz in 2010
Or Sydney, just to swallow the truism?
Play your best bowlers from what you've got left, frankly.
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If England play two spinners. in Aus there's no way they will take 20 wickets needed to win also only one test venue is known to spin.
Without doubt Woakes is crucial but can he take wickets / win matches for England away from the UK.
Your back to the constant discussion of do you play your best bowlers or a lesser bowler because of the pitch...it’s flawed thinking
We have had spinners do very well out there, it’s hot the pitch will bake
Ps I was in Worcester on Saturday it’s very nice, meet you for a pint next time
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There’s only 3 things wrong with the England team, they can’t bowl, they can’t bat and they can’t field.
Ah the brilliance of his retraction - "Right headline, Wrong team" :D
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(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23318957_10154779642670194_3391840554465741798_n.jpg?oh=1afe5dbf30cc479f4e1456a76218a459&oe=5A65D9F6)
YES LADS
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Your back to the constant discussion of do you play your best bowlers or a lesser bowler because of the pitch...it’s flawed thinking
We have had spinners do very well out there, it’s hot the pitch will bake
Ps I was in Worcester on Saturday it’s very nice, meet you for a pint next time
Yes the pitches will bake and they will have bounce but will they turn has an indiactor England seamers took 68 wickets out there in the last series not just me but the tv experts seem to agree also wasn't suggesting England play lesser bowlers.
Glad you liked Worcester it's also a great place if you like English history.
Did you go to Fearnley or Hawk.
Look foreward to that pint.
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(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23318957_10154779642670194_3391840554465741798_n.jpg?oh=1afe5dbf30cc479f4e1456a76218a459&oe=5A65D9F6)
YES LADS
Get him in at no. 5 good old fashioned Northern grit.
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Seniorplayer - if only one venue in Australia spins, which one do you mean?
Gabba, where Warne said was his favourite place to bowl
Adelaide, where Swann bowled out Oz in 2010
Or Sydney, just to swallow the truism?
Play your best bowlers from what you've got left, frankly.
Sydney the ground the Aussies test team go to when they want to Practice against the turning ball
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Yes the pitches will bake and they will have bounce but will they turn has an indiactor England seamers took 68 wickets out there in the last series not just me but the tv experts seem to agree also wasn't suggesting England play lesser bowlers.
Glad you liked Worcester it's also a great place if you like English history.
Did you go to Fearnley or Hawk.
Look foreward to that pint.
The reason England's seamer's took those wickets last time was because Swann was bowling a bag of grenades (for a variety of reasons) and retired after 3 tests it was so bad - 7-560 in 3 tests! So there wasn't anyone else to take them.
Warne has said many times that it is bounce and accuracy that got him wickets, with the occasional ball that turns is all you need to show the batsman that you can do it.
I say throw Crane in - it looks like he is bowling well and is used to Aus conditions after playing for NSW.
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Seniorplayer - if only one venue in Australia spins, which one do you mean?
Gabba, where Warne said was his favourite place to bowl
Adelaide, where Swann bowled out Oz in 2010
Or Sydney, just to swallow the truism?
Play your best bowlers from what you've got left, frankly.
Gabba is good for spin only if the spinner uses a lot of overspin to extract extra bounce.
Adelaide in a pink ball day nighter is not the same spin friendly place it is for red ball cricket ( greener pitch , doesnt wear nearly as much by days 3,4,5).
Sydney is beginning to return to its spin friendly former self..... judge the scg pitch on the morning of day 1. Half the time you wouldn't even want/need 2 spinners at the scg anyway .
Picking Crane for anything other than the scg would be madness .
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Gabba is good for spin only if the spinner uses a lot of overspin to extract extra bounce.
Adelaide in a pink ball day nighter is not the same spin friendly place it is for red ball cricket ( greener pitch , doesnt wear nearly as much by days 3,4,5).
Sydney is beginning to return to its spin friendly former self..... judge the scg pitch on the morning of day 1. Half the time you wouldn't even want/need 2 spinners at the scg anyway .
Picking Crane for anything other than the scg would be madness .
Crane will have to play at some point i think so why not get him in early.
There is no way Anderson and possibly Broad will be playing every game - especially if we end up chasing leather for a few days.
The 1st and 2nd, and 4th and 5th Tests are also back to back - only 4 days in between each test if they go the distance.
So we have Overton and Curran out there as 4th seamer or back up both on debut - and now possibly another debutante if Ball needs replacing
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Tom Curran must be laughing at the luck he is having. One day not in the squad then next day having to get a flight over to cover Finn. Then getting off his flight to find out Ball is injured and there is a decent chance he will now start first test.
Out of interest who does everyone predict will be there best batsmen and bowler by the end of the series for your team ?
Im going to go for Stoneman to have a Rogers style ashes and either Woakes or Ali with the ball.
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Personally would have Crane in as leggies can get wickets on non turning pitches but think Mo might struggle as not got the variety or accuracy if nothing at all there for him.
Really hope I'm wrong though.
Why won't they pick Plunkett? Is he injured as seems like he would be a good shout in aus with extra bounce.
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Plunkett never gets on the trips god knows why maybe he’s a bad tourist or upset someone
Mason crane is getting closer to a test match debut every day
Can this lad hold a bat down the order?
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Personally would have Crane in as leggies can get wickets on non turning pitches but think Mo might struggle as not got the variety or accuracy if nothing at all there for him.
Really hope I'm wrong though.
Why won't they pick Plunkett? Is he injured as seems like he would be a good shout in aus with extra bounce.
Plunkett is fit and is in Bangladesh playing in T20 with a few other England Odi players.
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(https://kniftonholdingcourt.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/clive-dunn-dads-army.jpg)
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(https://kniftonholdingcourt.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/clive-dunn-dads-army.jpg)
Who do you think you are kidding .. ...... ?
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Who do you think you are kidding .. ...... ?
..... Darren Lehman, if you think we can’t score runs
We are the boys who will play this mighty game
We are the boys who will keep the urn again
Coz who do you think you are kidding Darren Lehman
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https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10154779582025194&id=19390830193
Practicing short balls properly.
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https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10154779582025194&id=19390830193
Practicing short balls properly.
I wouldn't mind but I coudn't see the damn ball!! :o
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Yeah no one get any ideas for the next Southern net it was hard enough against the ball crusher Merlyn unless we get net sponsorship from Ayrtek 'to test out the lids'
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Id be keen! I loved the merlyn so much I have a net booked on tuesday with one.
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Stoneman with another 50 looks like he’s in decent nick
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What an embarrassing collapse, one of many I suspect on this tour
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..... Darren Lehman, if you think we can’t score runs
We are the boys who will play this mighty game
We are the boys who will keep the urn again
Coz who do you think you are kidding Darren Lehman
Give the Barmy Army a ring and they'll be belting that out in a fortnight at the Gabba.
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Anderson named as vice captain we are in safe hands lads
I quite like the fact he’s a grumpy bowler
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Chris woakes 4 overs 3 wickets 4 runs....
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Give the Barmy Army a ring and they'll be belting that out in a fortnight at the Gabba.
I was wondering if anyone on here was touring with them
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Bloody hell Woakesy, steady on!
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eng bowlers moving the ball big time , especially off the deck. They good atm. Woakes is looking pure class.
In other news .... first match commentary re the village look of cream shirt /pants with white vest ! Im sure ther will be plenty more talk re this once the tests start. Cant understand how nb let this happen - its , literally a bad look.
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Woakes has 4 now, CA XI are 18/5 from 14 overs.
Anyone watching it on Facebook? Woakes is really impressive, understandably a weaker opposition but still moving it both ways at good pace.
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Overton has 2 how’s he looking?
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Espn shows he only has 1 woakes with 4?
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Never mind :D :D :. Aussie XI my (No Swearing Please)
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Overton has 2 how’s he looking?
Looks ok, moving the ball back into the right hander well. The ball he bowled Tim Paine with was a beauty.
Anderson just got another so they're 7 down now. Great reaction from Bairstow after dropping it and catching the rebound.
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might be all over tonight.
i suppose oz can try to con ourselves that it was all a plan to deprive eng bowlers of getting more overs under their belts. ;)
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Anyone got that facebook link to the highlights again? Can't seem to find it!
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7 down in no time :o
Are we allowed to get carried away that we will do some damage in Adelaide ;) Another hot spell of bowling from the man that wasn't named by the press last tour.
Is there any reason that Broad isn't playing this game?
I'd have thought this would have been the game Eng played almost full strength seen as its at a test venue and extra D/N match practice
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Anyone got that facebook link to the highlights again? Can't seem to find it!
no highlights but here's the live link:
https://www.facebook.com/btsport/videos/1745428565530338/ (https://www.facebook.com/btsport/videos/1745428565530338/)
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no highlights but here's the live link:
https://www.facebook.com/btsport/videos/1745428565530338/ (https://www.facebook.com/btsport/videos/1745428565530338/)
Thanks :D
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7 down in no time :o
Are we allowed to get carried away that we will do some damage in Adelaide ;) Another hot spell of bowling from the man that wasn't named by the press last tour.
Is there any reason that Broad isn't playing this game?
I'd have thought this would have been the game Eng played almost full strength seen as its at a test venue and extra D/N match practice
Broad hasn’t lasted an ashes tour for a while some of the games are back to back so tough for the bowlers
I think crane is going to play-the issue then is you need plenty of seam bowling to cover jimmy and broad so they don’t get knackered. He could be bowling heavy in the first test to cover
The batters have got to stand up if we do that
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http://bbc.in/2ArC2Eu (http://bbc.in/2ArC2Eu)
So many different teams you could put together out of the options on this
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[url]http://bbc.in/2ArC2Eu[/url] ([url]http://bbc.in/2ArC2Eu[/url])
So many different teams you could put together out of the options on this
Was grumpy I couldn't pick two spinners. You would want Laker and Warne in your team and with Botham, Lillee and McGrath you have enough seam up bowling. Add Gilchrist and you are just fighting over who will join Bradman in the batting order.
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[url]http://bbc.in/2ArC2Eu[/url] ([url]http://bbc.in/2ArC2Eu[/url])
So many different teams you could put together out of the options on this
Stuff not being able to pick guys out of position , pick more than one allrounder, two spinners etc . Anyway , for what its worth ( without their restrictions) :
1 G.Boycott
2 H.Sutcliffe
3 D.Bradman
4 W.Hammond
5 S.Waugh
6 A.Gilchrist
7 K.Miller
8 I.Botham
9 S.Warne
10 J. Thomson
11 F.Tyson
If it was a spinning track, then swap one of Thomson or Tyson for Laker .
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With Hammond and Waugh in that side you could swap Tyson out for Laker
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Whew, tricky. I'd go:
Hutton
Sutcliffe
Bradman
Chappell
S Waugh
Botham
Flintoff or Davison
Gilchrist
Trueman
Warne
Lillee
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Has anyone even heard of George Garton !!!
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Has anyone even heard of George Garton !!!
I have- Garton has just been called up as cover for the England Ashes squad...
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Does Liam Plunkett have an irrational fear of spiders that I don't know about?
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@Buzz Yes. Doesnt even get in the Sussex team. Disappointing call up. I'd rather ask Chris Jordan back. Or speed up Jofra Archers qualification.
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He’s only with team for a week.
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If it comes to the point where Garton has to actually play a test we're either:
A) 4-0 down going into the last test
B) 4-0 up going into the last test
C) Broad, Anderson, Woakes, Overton, Curran etc are crocked and we're already up the creek without a paddle.
So I wouldn't worry too much.
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Has anyone even heard of George Garton !!!
I'll take some credit here ;)
Given that the available spot is for effectively a 6th choice seamer, I'd rather see a bolter called up than a steady bowler like Plunkett - Plunkett's not going to let anyone down but if whoever is in the squad as the 6th seamer gets to actually play a test then we'll probably be in need of a bit of inspiration! George Garton/Tom Helm/Tom Curran perhaps.
edit: ah, Tom Curran. The predictable option really, hard to argue too much with that.
Highly unlikely he'll play, but the romance of a young tearaway quick getting surprisingly selected by Bayliss and ripping holes in Australia is hard to resist! He did do pretty well for he Lions in the summer if I remember right.
https://twitter.com/Vitu_E/status/929137558747049985
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Left arm quick net bowling to prepare for Starc perhaps?
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So who are the bowlers going to be for the last warm up game...
Broad - as he didn't play this game
Ali - meant to be fit now and hasn't played a game
Curran - to get some game time in AUS conditions
Overton - ?? That would mean he's played every game
Woakes - ?? That would mean he's played every game
Crane - ?? Are we going to play 2 spinners
Anderson will surely be rested before the test as he's played every game so far.
I think it's lucky we didn't bowl to many overs that 2nd innings.
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Left arm quick net bowling to prepare for Starc perhaps?
Precisely - he's called up to help with preparation and has no real chance of playing. Having a slippery quick left arm over in the nets won't exactly replicate Starc, but it will help a lot and is better than having no preparation at all against bowling from this angle.
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Broad , Anderson, woakes, Ali absolute nailed on so its a bit easier if the team is listed. We havnt had a Pete hosk team list for a while -Pete get on it- until then how about this?
Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Malan
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
That's 10 ....umm. I think Crane could play but the issue is broad and Anderson cannot be bowled I to the ground early it will wreck the tour
That means Overton has to play and just one spinner in Ali.
What does everyone else think? Getting a bit more excited now the 1st test is getting closer.
Malan is in possession of the number 5 spot although there is a slight argument Ballance was injured but that's a bit flaky to me :)
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Total joke of calling up someone that can't break into their county side, surely you'd rather take another bowler that if called upon would be able to step up I.e Jordan or plunkett, cranes looked god in the warm up games but sometimes a few to many loose deliveries but that's expected of a young spinner, would of like to see Patel on the tour hasn't done much wrong over the course of the season
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Malan is in possession of the number 5 spot although there is a slight argument Ballance was injured but that's a bit flaky to me :)
Malan (while not exactly setting the world alight just yet) hasn't done anything to deserve dropping, he'll deffo start the first test at 5, plus he's actually (along with Stoneman) looked the best batter in the warm ups so far.
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Left arm quick net bowling to prepare for Starc perhaps?
Well done Edge.
Obviously he has been called up for preparation against starc, but still a bit of a bolter.
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From what i have read it is purely a call up for the warm up game and Garton will actually go back to the Lions to play in their game vs Queensland which starts Mon Nov 27th.
England actually expect Ball to be fit in about a weeks time.
Like others have said valuable experience against LA seamers for our batters though.
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Broad , Anderson, woakes, Ali absolute nailed on so its a bit easier if the team is listed. We havnt had a Pete hosk team list for a while -Pete get on it- until then how about this?
Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Malan
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
That's 10 ....umm. I think Crane could play but the issue is broad and Anderson cannot be bowled I to the ground early it will wreck the tour
That means Overton has to play and just one spinner in Ali.
What does everyone else think? Getting a bit more excited now the 1st test is getting closer.
Malan is in possession of the number 5 spot although there is a slight argument Ballance was injured but that's a bit flaky to me :)
Good point re Anderson and Broad theres so much dependant on these two England will need to pick a spinner who if doesn't take wickets will block an end to give them a breather.
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Get the Ginger Ninja on a plane EK036 leaves the Toon about 1.30 daily. Innocent until proven guilty.
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Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Malan
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Overton
Broad
Anderson
Balanced and has enough there to cause issues for the Aussies!
Get a draw at the gabba and go to Adelaide and win series on!
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Get the Ginger Ninja on a plane EK036 leaves the Toon about 1.30 daily. Innocent until proven guilty.
Any plane?
(http://a66.tinypic.com/oumvix.jpg)
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Interesting in that i think ,with 15 days until the 1st test , the eng side is locked in already , whereas the oz team isnt....
Eng
Cook , stoneman, vince , root , malan , bairstow , ali , woakes , overton , broad , anderson.
Oz
Renshaw, warner , khawaja, smith, handsomb, maxwell /cartwright /lehmann /bancroft , nevill /wade / carey /bancroft , starc , cummins, lyon, hazlewood.
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Neville and wade are the two keepers correct? Seems odd to us there is not an outstanding keeper, pretty much everyone in the past has been top draw. Brad Haddin most recent perhaps did not get the credit due-he got very useful runs and was tidy.
England's selection(we think) should be fairly easy, I do think myself Crane could play as a second spinner but for the start broad and Anderson need some protecting-meaning Overton and Woakes may need to do some donkey work.
That's presuming there won't be a lot in the wickets for the seamers.
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Is there any chance Tim Piane could be in the side for the Ashes?
Had it not been for that horror break of his finger he'd have been the man in possession of the gloves for years by now, wouldn't he?
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Interesting in that i think ,with 15 days until the 1st test , the eng side is locked in already , whereas the oz team isnt....
Eng
Cook , stoneman, vince , root , malan , bairstow , ali , woakes , overton , broad , anderson.
Oz
Renshaw, warner , khawaja, smith, handsomb, maxwell /cartwright /lehmann /bancroft , nevill /wade / carey /bancroft , starc , cummins, lyon, hazlewood.
If you look at that England team and swap Vince and Overton for Stokes and Crane I think England have a team that can beat Australia. Crane yes is a luxury but with 4 seamers and an off spinner I feel it is a luxury England could afford and would be worth the risk. Is Overton going to contribute more anyway? Stokes being out is a game changer unfortunately.
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Interesting in that i think ,with 15 days until the 1st test , the eng side is locked in already , whereas the oz team isnt....
Eng
Cook , stoneman, vince , root , malan , bairstow , ali , woakes , overton , broad , anderson.
Oz
Renshaw, warner , khawaja, smith, handsomb, maxwell /cartwright /lehmann /bancroft , nevill /wade / carey /bancroft , starc , cummins, lyon, hazlewood.
Lehman and carey wont get near the squad, the keeping spot will most likely stay with Wade, and should he have a quiet first couple of tests, then i'd Imagine Nevill will get the nod. I'd love Tim Paine to be there as in an alternate injury free universe, he might be captaining the side, but realistically he hasnt been a regular player for Tasmania in recent years. #6 is the tough one, but its looking like Maxwell or Shaun Marsh, Cartwright being the least likely.
Considering that recent history tells us that maxwell and cartwright wont be asked to bowl much if at all, I think they will lean towards Marsh, he scored a lovely 90 odd against the NSW (Australian) Bowling attack last sheild game.
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If you look at that England team and swap Vince and Overton for Stokes and Crane I think England have a team that can beat Australia. Crane yes is a luxury but with 4 seamers and an off spinner I feel it is a luxury England could afford and would be worth the risk. Is Overton going to contribute more anyway? Stokes being out is a game changer unfortunately.
That's a lovely and interesting thought about Stokes but wouldn't happen - not just because of the obvious about Stokes. But the problem that Root won't bat at 3 so you would only be replacing Overton with Stokes because you have no-one to bat at 3 so Vince has to play.
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Well I've heard we may well be seeing Mr Stokes in Oz very soon...... could be tosh but I'm hoping it's true
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Well I've heard we may well be seeing Mr Stokes in Oz very soon...... could be tosh but I'm hoping it's true
I could kiss you Parko
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Well I've heard we may well be seeing Mr Stokes in Oz very soon...... could be tosh but I'm hoping it's true
Where has this potential tosh come from?
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I wouldn't get too excited, the only way for that to happen you would think is if the police make no charges
It's a strange world sometimes thou and if you happen to be able to afford the best lawyers who could find a loophole anything is possible !
Didn't Swann get off a drink driving charge because he was rescuing a trapped cat and needed a screwdriver ! He was over the limit but from memory the cat did get rescued from permanently living under the floorboards
:)
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As the first test draws closer had a look at the fixtures And there's five tests in seven weeks can the bowlers stay fit maybe it will come down to the side with the fittest bowlers will have the best chance of winning.
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Jake ball now appears to be OK for the first test if needed.
Cummins, Hazlewood and Starc are the Aussies best seamers. After years of back problems Cummins seems to be fit now and he is very useful.
There has been injury issues with the Australian bowlers in the past, can they get theu most of the matches fully fit is the big question.
For us, we could be a batsman short going into the first game because we won't want too much work early for our two best bowlers.
Overton or ball in I reckon with Ali, woakes,Broad and Anderson.5 bowlers I think that means Bairstow bats 6 with Ali and woakes behind.
If stokes was to make a miracle appearance(!) we could play two spinners if we wanted.
That's the problem trying to replace a world class allrounder, Stokes gives the selectors options, without him we really need two players instead.
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That's the problem trying to replace a world class allrounder, Stokes gives the selectors options, without him we really need two players instead.
Simple - drop James Vince and get Joe Root up to no.3
He may get to the crease 3 or 4 balls earlier that way, but it gives space for the extra bowler...
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Broad , Anderson, woakes, Ali absolute nailed on so its a bit easier if the team is listed. We havnt had a Pete hosk team list for a while -Pete get on it-
Hi fella - ok, as I have discussed with a couple of others over the last week or two, I suspect it will be.......
Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
With Overton jumping in for Broad or Anderson if they're feeling tired! ;)
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Hi fella - ok, as I have discussed with a couple of others over the last week or two, I suspect it will be.......
Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
With Overton jumping in for Broad or Anderson if they're feeling tired! ;)
Stokes?
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But if by some freak event Stokes doesn't make the first Test, then Overton in and move people up one.
I prefer Overton over Ball but I fear that the selectors may prefer Ball!
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Stokes?
The less we hear about it, and the lack of people coming forward may just indicate that they will have not charge him through lack of a case!
Plus there will be pressure on the Police too!
And I am an optimist beyond logic sometimes! ;)
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The less we hear about it, and the lack of people coming forward may just indicate that they will have not charge him through lack of a case!
Plus there will be pressure on the Police too!
And I am an optimist beyond logic sometimes! ;)
Based on what' we hear and read no.
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Great argument that, "no". Fantastic news.
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Based on what' we hear and read no.
You got me! I can't compete with your logic!! ;)
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Great argument that, "no". Fantastic news.
No rhyme nor reason whatsoever! Just hope and pray that he gets to Aus.
Plus I have just had a feeling in my water :D
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The less we hear about it, and the lack of people coming forward may just indicate that they will have not charge him through lack of a case!
Plus there will be pressure on the Police too!
And I am an optimist beyond logic sometimes! ;)
I like the optimism! I wish I could share it however this is england cricket!
Agree with what you’re saying about Overton though!
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I have it on good authority from a good friend of mine who works for a certain police force,that Stokes is NOT, I repeat NOT, going to be charged.
This will be announced on Monday or Tuesday apparantly.
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Oh wait,sorry guys, that was a dream that I just made up!
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I have it on good authority from a good friend of mine who works for a certain police force,that Stokes is NOT, I repeat NOT, going to be charged.
This will be announced on Monday or Tuesday apparantly.
OMG! That would mean my water could be running true!
Hope it streams soon!! (The Stokes story...not my water)
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Awaiting an announcement to see if petes witchcraft waterworks prediction comes true
For those not old enough perhaps a nod to the past when we had Botham at his peak-and how important Stokes is to the side
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I can't proclaim to know anything for certain, but I got a message late Saturday night from someone close to Durham CCC saying he is waiting to fly out this week. Could well be rubbish as I said but I really hope not.
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Any investigation can only go on for so long before a decision has to be made in Stokes s case maybe the length of time it has gone on already the more unlikely it is there's a case to answer.
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Having just watched Cameron Bancroft reach 228no at lunch 2nd day vs s.a i reckon the oz selectors need to find a spot for him in the test side . He has also come off 78no and 80 odd vs nsw (full test bowling attack) and 206no at the end of the county season too . He looked the best young opener in oz for a couple years but went a bit quiet and others rose above him in the pecking order , but he has not only regained consistent form, but he has added greater scoring proficiency to his excellent physical and mental stamina/ability to bat long periods .
Whether he ousts Wade/Nevill/Carey for the gloveman role , ousts Maxwell/Cartwright/Lehmann/Marsh for the no6 role , or ousts Renshaw for an opening spot (my preferred option) is up to the selectors .... but he has knocked the door down and demands a spot .
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Having just watched Cameron Bancroft reach 228no at lunch 2nd day vs s.a i reckon the oz selectors need to find a spot for him in the test side . He has also come off 78no and 80 odd vs nsw (full test bowling attack) and 206no at the end of the county season too . He looked the best young opener in oz for a couple years but went a bit quiet and others rose above him in the pecking order , but he has not only regained consistent form, but he has added greater scoring proficiency to his excellent physical and mental stamina/ability to bat long periods .
Whether he ousts Wade/Nevill/Carey for the gloveman role , ousts Maxwell/Cartwright/Lehmann/Marsh for the no6 role , or ousts Renshaw for an opening spot (my preferred option) is up to the selectors .... but he has knocked the door down and demands a spot .
I think Renshaw has done a decent job opening up in some tough conditions to start your career, India away against spin must have been pretty alien. Surely either of those other two roles you mention is where Bancroft gets into the side, no one has nailed down the 6 or 7 role for Aus despite plenty of chances.
But who am I to tell you how to pick your team. Id drop Starc and Cummins for Bollinger and Hilfenhaus aswell and get Lyon out for Jason Krezja. Thats what we need - an english mole on the Aussie selection committee!
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I think Renshaw has done a decent job opening up in some tough conditions to start your career, India away against spin must have been pretty alien. Surely either of those other two roles you mention is where Bancroft gets into the side, no one has nailed down the 6 or 7 role for Aus despite plenty of chances.
But who am I to tell you how to pick your team. Id drop Starc and Cummins for Bollinger and Hilfenhaus aswell and get Lyon out for Jason Krezja. Thats what we need - an english mole on the Aussie selection committee!
I agree I think Renshaw has done a good job and compliments Warner at the top of order well.
Is Bancroft a genuine wicket keeper or is he more in the Dravid mould of keepers?
If a proper keeper surely he's got to come to instead of Wade and Nevill who aren't in great form.
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Bancroft has hardly ever kept in 1st class, he might bat 6, but he’ll never keep.
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I like Renshaw , he's done a decent job at the start of his test career , but he is not in form . Bancroft needs to come into the side somewhere .....Bancroft , Maxwell , Nevill looks better atm then Renshaw , Bancroft , Nevill , or Renshaw , Maxwell , Nevill , in the 3 available positions.
Sometimes you have to make tough calls....and Renshaw will be back , he is only 21 afterall .
But id be pretty happy with Bancroft keeping and Renshaw staying in the side , but Bancroft keeping is quite unlikely .... but if its the only way the selectors are willing to pick him , then so be it .
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Bancroft has hardly ever kept in 1st class, he might bat 6, but he’ll never keep.
so play him as a batsmen and let handscomb keep, or is that not an option?
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so play him as a batsmen and let handscomb keep, or is that not an option?
Think the same would apply for Handscomb.
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so play him as a batsmen and let handscomb keep, or is that not an option?
Isn't Hanscomb a part time keeper too?
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Haha.
Maybe we pick bancroft as opener, and a specialist batsman (or allrounder) at 7 , and Bancroft and Handscomb can share the keeping duties . Maybe wear one glove and pad each ? ;) :D :D
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Handscomb is a smoggie so having been brought up under a toxic cloud from ICI Wilton, his webbed 6 digit hands would need custom gloves.
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The Handscomb keeping thing is what i always didn't get as it completely solves the Aussies - 'can't find a genuine allrounder' issue.
I think i am right in saying he kept for Yorkshire during the summer?
In Australia he is going to be standing back with consistent bounce at least 85% of the time i reckon - it's not like keeping in India etc... where Aus have just come from.
If Handscomb kept it completely changes Australia's selection - no. 6 can be a complete batter and you can select another bowler or even that allrounder at no.7
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As an Englishman I much prefer the look of the side with Wade in it... ;)
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Bancroft is a proper keeper. He has kept all is life in all levels but 1st class. He wasn't chosen for WA as Whitman was in the team from the age group before and hence kept the gloves Bancroft becoming a specialist batsman. Handscombe is a part time keeper and always has been and has said himself he is only comfortable keeping in LO cricket.
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I think i am right in saying he kept for Yorkshire during the summer?
He did, in the one day stuff. He was not particularly impressive.
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Bancroft is a proper keeper. He has kept all is life in all levels but 1st class. He wasn't chosen for WA as Whitman was in the team from the age group before and hence kept the gloves Bancroft becoming a specialist batsman. Handscombe is a part time keeper and always has been and has said himself he is only comfortable keeping in LO cricket.
Thats great news , gives me confidence he could do the job .
Geez, they better pick him somewhere ....
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Another day passes with no stokes announcement. A few things perhaps to consider
Are we ready to hand over the ashes with no ginger ninja?
Do we think this is the weakest Aussie team ever seen in ...Australia?
Can Steve smith keep up his phenomenal run scoring with a technique from the village green?
Do we secretly envy the Australian way of life and the fact some of their women are stronger than us men?
Do you know what a scooner is?
Do we really really really not miss mark Nicholas but wish the brilliant Richie benaud could commentate on just one more series?
So many questions we just don't know the answer too.
Roll on the 1st test. :)
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Another day passes with no stokes announcement. A few things perhaps to consider
Are we ready to hand over the ashes with no ginger ninja?
Do we think this is the weakest Aussie team ever seen in ...Australia?
Can Steve smith keep up his phenomenal run scoring with a technique from the village green?
Do we secretly envy the Australian way of life and the fact some of their women are stronger than us men?
Do you know what a scooner is?
Do we really really really not miss mark Nicholas but wish the brilliant Richie benaud could commentate on just one more series?
So many questions we just don't know the answer too.
Roll on the 1st test. :)
Calm down chap
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Who i would pick with the teams lined up
Warner Vs Cook (home advantage wins)
Renshaw Vs Stoneman (only because he has a few more test matches under his belt)
Smith Vs Vince (no explination required)
Khawaja Vs Root (Root a class above)
Handscomb Vs Malan (handscomb with more experience)
Wade/Nevill/Bancroft/Alyssa Healy, Australian Cattle Dog/Backstop Vs Bairstow (because he is going to be in the side)
Maxwell/Cartwright/S. Marsh/Bancroft vs Ali (Tie, im tipping Ali to struggle with the ball massively, the Australian candidates will bowl little if at all and the genuine bats will be stronger than Ali but dont bowl)
Starc Vs Woakes (starc is in a different league)
Cummins Vs Broad (Tie, raw young pace and talent vs experience, word is broad has lost his swing and just hasnt been the same with the bat since he got hit in the mug a few years ago, cummins can also hold a bat)
Hazelwood Vs Anderson (anderson sadly well past his best, i think he will struggle with injury and form)
Lyon Vs Overton/Ball/Team Physio/Talented member of touring Barmy Army (Lyon cops alot of critisism but his record does the talking, especially in Australia)
No Stokes because you cant beat down on a person like he did, regardless of what they said. No excuses, get some help son.
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If you pick it as the strongest XI rather than head to head...
Warner
Cook
Smith
Root
Hanscomb, probably, maybe
Bairstow
Ali
Starc
Cummins
Anderson
Lyon, who is no longer a clubbie.
If Sturks turns up, he comes in for Lyon and evens things up. It's the same series it ever was - on paper, Aussie pace and experience in the conditions beats English depth.
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Who i would pick with the teams lined up
Warner Vs Cook (home advantage wins)
Renshaw Vs Stoneman (only because he has a few more test matches under his belt)
Smith Vs Vince (no explination required)
Khawaja Vs Root (Root a class above)
Handscomb Vs Malan (handscomb with more experience)
Wade/Nevill/Bancroft/Alyssa Healy, Australian Cattle Dog/Backstop Vs Bairstow (because he is going to be in the side)
Maxwell/Cartwright/S. Marsh/Bancroft vs Ali (Tie, im tipping Ali to struggle with the ball massively, the Australian candidates will bowl little if at all and the genuine bats will be stronger than Ali but dont bowl)
Starc Vs Woakes (starc is in a different league)
Cummins Vs Broad (Tie, raw young pace and talent vs experience, word is broad has lost his swing and just hasnt been the same with the bat since he got hit in the mug a few years ago, cummins can also hold a bat)
Hazelwood Vs Anderson (anderson sadly well past his best, i think he will struggle with injury and form)
Lyon Vs Overton/Ball/Team Physio/Talented member of touring Barmy Army (Lyon cops alot of critisism but his record does the talking, especially in Australia)
No Stokes because you cant beat down on a person like he did, regardless of what they said. No excuses, get some help son.
i think ali will have a good series with the bat (oz will forget to bounce him enough) and could suprise a few with the ball. so id give that one to the poms.
cummins vs broad , i disagree it's a draw. broad can only hope for an average series. at adelaide he should do ok and at the gabba and wacca he may do ok with the new ball if he gets his lengths right , but he will get smashed for long periods due to his increasingly pedestrian pace whenever he cant get the ball to move or it is old etc. cummins will shake up a lot of batsmen this series .
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Another day passes with no stokes announcement. A few things perhaps to consider
Are we ready to hand over the ashes with no ginger ninja?
Do we think this is the weakest Aussie team ever seen in ...Australia?
Can Steve smith keep up his phenomenal run scoring with a technique from the village green?
Do we secretly envy the Australian way of life and the fact some of their women are stronger than us men?
Do you know what a scooner is?
Do we really really really not miss mark Nicholas but wish the brilliant Richie benaud could commentate on just one more series?
So many questions we just don't know the answer too.
Roll on the 1st test. :)
maybe i can answer on your behalf ?
yes
no (world series era bob simpson led side , anyone ?)
yes
yes
a boat of some kind ?
yes
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Wade/Nevill/Bancroft/Alyssa Healy, Australian Cattle Dog/Backstop Vs Bairstow (because he is going to be in the side)
You hope? ;) https://www.cricket.com.au/video/jonny-bairstow-finger-injury-england-ashes-tour-match-townsville-cricket-australia-xi/2017-11-15 (https://www.cricket.com.au/video/jonny-bairstow-finger-injury-england-ashes-tour-match-townsville-cricket-australia-xi/2017-11-15)
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Woakes taken 6 wickets
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Woakes taken 6 wickets
Certainly staking his claim to get the new ball ahead of Broad isn't he, wickets all over the place. Note that Overton's got a couple of economical strikes again too, first test line up is looking pretty obvious now!
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Certainly staking his claim to get the new ball ahead of Broad isn't he, wickets all over the place. Note that Overton's got a couple of economical strikes again too, first test line up is looking pretty obvious now!
It’ll be ridiculous if he doesn’t open the bowling! Broad hasn’t done anything in the two warm up games and I’m starting to think his place in the side could be under threat!
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First teams 11 will be the current 11 with Anderson in for Crane, unless it looks like it's a two spinners job (unlikely IMO) in which case he'll be in for Overton.
Would prefer Ballance at 5 to Malan but he does deserve another series.
My main worry is that Vince is a walking wicket and we have Baøllance at 3 after he's droppped.
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It’ll be ridiculous if he doesn’t open the bowling! Broad hasn’t done anything in the two warm up games and I’m starting to think his place in the side could be under threat!
Broad has a bajillion Test wickets and nearly 300 international games worth of experience. They won't just drop him because he hasn't ran through a couple of club sides.
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Woakes taken 6 wickets
Don't tell @Seniorplayer ;)
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Don't tell @Seniorplayer ;)
#DropWoakes
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Broad has a bajillion Test wickets and nearly 300 international games worth of experience. They won't just drop him because he hasn't ran through a couple of club sides.
I don’t think he’s had the best summer either been a while since I’ve felt broad was a threat, although he’ll probably have a storming series now I’ve said that!
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Woakes taken 6 wickets
Against a team that were all out for 75 the previous week.
Hope he gets six in the tests in each match that is not all series....
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Drop Woakes. Doesnt get out world class batters out everytime he plays.
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Against a team that were all out for 75 the previous week.
Hope he gets six in the tests in each match that is not all series....
And how many did Anderson get opening the bowling with him against the same batsman?
When will you wake up?
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And how many did Anderson get opening the bowling with him against the same batsman?
When will you wake up?
Anderson as nothing to prove been there and done it in the Uk and abroad.
More to the point when are you going to ditch those blinkers
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Anderson as nothing to prove been there and done it.
More to the point when are you going to ditch those blinkers
When woakes stops performing... so what if this team got bowled out for 75 Australia were bowled out for 60 we weren’t saying in the next game whoever got wickets was crap because it was against a team who bowled out for less than 100
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Drop Woakes. Doesnt get out world class batters out everytime he plays.
He will get an opportunity next week onwards hope he takes it.
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Does anyone here have the cricket Australia app? Just wondered if it allowed you to stream the warm up games?
Cheers
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Does anyone here have the cricket Australia app? Just wondered if it allowed you to stream the warm up games?
Cheers
If you are in the U.K. BT Sport are streaming it on their Facebook page, not sure what affects there are if you are anywhere other than UK though...
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Another 50 for Stoneman, 4 from 4 innings so far in this tour.
Let's hope he keeps this run of form going
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Ton for Stoneman in the end, Vince thou gets in again and gets out-that’s how he bats it all looks easy enough but no real contribution-we need a lot more than that batting 3
This number 3 spot in a worry
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Malan gets another 50
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Ton for Stoneman in the end, Vince thou gets in again and gets out-that’s how he bats it all looks easy enough but no real contribution-we need a lot more than that batting 3
This number 3 spot in a worry
To be honest, a few starts and an average of 25 for the series would do for Vince really, just keep the middle order away from the new ball.
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To be honest, a few starts and an average of 25 for the series would do for Vince really, just keep the middle order away from the new ball.
You're probably right tbh, the way they are playing though it looks like Malan would be more suited to the gritty no 3 spot (never thought that watching him play for Middlesex) and Vince as a strokemaker at 5 a'la Ian Bell, I've been really impressed with Malan's tenacity especially as I (as I'm sure others did) had him down as a bit of a white ball dasher.
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Possibly, that'd be 3 lefties in a row at the top of the order though.
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If you want that approach you’re better to pick Ballance.
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I wouldn't actually move Malan to 3 I was more just trying to highlight the fact that I've been impressed with his grit and willingness to bat time. I'm one of the few who quite like Gary Ballance but I'd bat him at 5 if he was going to play, I'd also bat Vince at 5 though to be honest.
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Daft really that no.3 is a worry, Root should just bat there
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Daft really that no.3 is a worry, Root should just bat there
Yup. He obviously doesn't want to though.
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Vincey with a solid 20 odd
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Daft really that no.3 is a worry, Root should just bat there
In most recent tests he probably feels like he does.
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Warner
Bancroft
Khawaja
Smith
Handscomb
SHAUN FECKING MARSH hahahahahahahahahaha
TIM PAINE - Darren Lehmann scored a more recent FC hundred
Starc
Cummins
Hazlewood
Lyon
Bird
Aussie squad leaked. Good crack in Sydney it seems. After the stick England's squad got, look at that pig!
TIM PAINE hahahaha
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Warner
Bancroft
Khawaja
Smith
Handscomb
SHAUN FECKING MARSH hahahahahahahahahaha
TIM PAINE - Darren Lehmann scored a more recent FC hundred
Starc
Cummins
Hazlewood
Lyon
Bird
Aussie squad leaked. Good crack in Sydney it seems. After the stick England's squad got, look at that pig!
TIM PAINE hahahaha
Just seen this on facebook, do we think it's genuine?
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What a bizarre selection Paine is. Obviously Nevill is finished if they pick Paine before him. Where is Alex Carey in all this? The most promising keeper in Australian cricket.
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Just seen this on facebook, do we think it's genuine?
God i hope not !
S.marsh drives me insane and t.paine would be a short sighted , desperate move .
If the oz selectors are so unhappy with wade and nevill , and they want a top notch gloveman , they should pick carey .
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My only hope is that faifax media isn't worthy of being used as toilet paper these days, so hopefully they've got it wrong .
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The team I'm hoping gets picked tomorrow : warner, Bancroft, khawaja, smith, handsomb, maxwell, carey, etc.
I would be fine with this team being picked : warner , Renshaw, khawaja, smith, handsomb, maxwell, bancroft etc.
I would be ok with cartwright in instead of maxwell in either of those two sides .
If any of paine , wade , s.marsh get selected I'll be livid.
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Is it too much to hope for that they manage to squeeze wade and Paine into the same side ;)
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Is it too much to hope for that they manage to squeeze wade and Paine into the same side ;)
Donald Trump has just been on twitter denouncing the leaked side by Fairfax media as 'fake news' !
The 'real' test side according to the don will be :
S.marsh
T.paine
M.wade
J.lehmann
D.lehmann
M.marsh
P.nevill
M.stoinis
M.enriques
M.swepson
J.mennie
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Read that Ponting as predicted a 4- 0 win for the Aussies wouldn't expect him to predict anything different he's stated England are searching for a number 1and 3 batsman and Broad and Anderson are on the way down but it's hard to disagree.
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And I thought our selectors were often drunk at meetings
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Read that Ponting as predicted a 4- 0 win for the Aussies wouldn't expect him to predict anything different he's stated England are searching for a number 1and 3 batsman and Broad and Anderson are on the way down but it's hard to disagree.
Bookies will give you 8-1, lump on.
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I don't know how you can drop a keeper for his poor returns with the bat and then pick a fella who doesn't even average 30 in FC cricket and scored his only FC hundred back when Adam was a lad?!
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Read that Ponting as predicted a 4- 0 win for the Aussies wouldn't expect him to predict anything different he's stated England are searching for a number 1and 3 batsman and Broad and Anderson are on the way down but it's hard to disagree.
Lot of stuff and nonsense gets talked about Anderson being over the hill, to be fair we were all thinking it this time last year but since then he's averaged 17! If he stays injury free he'll do just fine, although I think Woakes and Overton may be the stars of the England attack.
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If that is their 11 (minus Bird) then they might be in for a shock!
Bancroft - Making his debut opening the batting against Anderson, Broad & Woakes, is a tough ask.
S Marsh - Tried, tested and failed repeatedly...
Paine - He's not even keeping wicket for Tasmania, he's only got 1 FC ton and that was in 2006! He seems like a nice bloke but come on, really?
if I was an Aussie I'd be spewing. Renshaw, Stoinis & Nevill is suely a much better 3 than those!
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miss information
dirty tricks by the enemy
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SMarsh has made a career out of making comebacks
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Who's gonna shout "NICE GARRY" every ball during Lyon's spell?
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Suddenly feeling a bit better about our side
S marsh I cannot believe has been recalled
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Lot of stuff and nonsense gets talked about Anderson being over the hill, to be fair we were all thinking it this time last year but since then he's averaged 17! If he stays injury free he'll do just fine, although I think Woakes and Overton may be the stars of the England attack.
Based on the bowling in Aus
Same newspaper has Overton ahead of Ball for selection.
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Surey its a deliberate plant. Early mind games? There no other reasonable explanation....
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Is there any chance Tim Piane could be in the side for the Ashes?
Had it not been for that horror break of his finger he'd have been the man in possession of the gloves for years by now, wouldn't he?
#CalledIt
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You guys suck - you're taking all the fun out of it . You're meant to be all bright eyed , bushy tailed , brimming with confidence. ....then let Australia beat you in the Ashes ! It's no fun if you're lamenting a series loss before it's even started . :) :D :D :D
What a difference 8 days make.
http://www.skysports.com/share/11128596 (http://www.skysports.com/share/11128596)
Here's a round up of how our Australian cousins are getting along. Looks like they've only got 7.
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What a difference 8 days make.
[url]http://www.skysports.com/share/11128596[/url] ([url]http://www.skysports.com/share/11128596[/url])
Here's a round up of how our Australian cousins are getting along. Looks like they've only got 7.
yes yes ....this is the type of cocky confidence i want ....when oz win it will be much sweeter this way .
if the 'leaked' side is the actual side we will still win . its just that certain blokes (like marsh and paine)dont deserve a spot and so it is annoying and wrong on principal.
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#CalledIt
Impossible to predict this but you seem to have done it
Are u an Aussie insider in disguise?
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What a difference 8 days make.
[url]http://www.skysports.com/share/11128596[/url] ([url]http://www.skysports.com/share/11128596[/url])
Here's a round up of how our Australian cousins are getting along. Looks like they've only got 7.
Caption competition from the pic in that article!
(http://e0.365dm.com/17/11/16-9/20/skysports-peter-nevill-new-south-wales-sheffield-shield-australia_4157201.jpg)
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Caption competition from the pic in that article!
"the Paine of missing out on selection"
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([url]http://e0.365dm.com/17/11/16-9/20/skysports-peter-nevill-new-south-wales-sheffield-shield-australia_4157201.jpg[/url])
Mama say wash your cap, it is filthy and smelly!
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Looks like it’s kicking off in the Aussie media-this time Stuart Broad is in the clear
McGill calls the selectors ‘morons’
Marvellous stuff
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Wow , looks like the Fairfax media 'leaked' test side could be accurate - both cricket australia website and espncricinfo are reporting it as such . Well , we'll have confirmation in a few hours, i hope its all wrong and just a prank , but we'll still win regardless .
I wonder how on earth does shaun marsh get so many chances from selectors ?... it's not like he could have bribed all of them since the panel has changed so many times over the years . Maybe he mows their lawns on weekends or something .
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Wow , looks like the Fairfax media 'leaked' test side could be accurate - both cricket australia website and espncricinfo are reporting it as such . Well , we'll have confirmation in a few hours, i hope its all wrong and just a prank , but we'll still win regardless .
I wonder how on earth does shaun marsh get so many chances from selectors ?... it's not like he could have bribed all of them since the panel has changed so many times over the years . Maybe he mows their lawns on weekends or something .
Can’t wait when England shock the world and win ;)
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I remember really liking Paine when he burst into the team. He's pretty good! No?
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I remember really liking Paine when he burst into the team. He's pretty good! No?
He has 1 1st class ton and 1st class average of 29. :(
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He has 1 1st class ton and 1st class average of 29. :(
He's kept in 3 1st class games in the last 2 years ( ironically the same as bancroft , i think ).
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He has 1 1st class ton and 1st class average of 29. :(
Wait a minute, what happened to the endless depth that team Aus is supposed to have?! I thought Sheilds cricket was second to none when producing top quality Test calibre cricketers. What am I missing here?
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Squad announcement - as we expected.
Btw - those laughing about Tim Paine being included obviously haven’t seen him keep much. He’s phenomenal. Haddin didn’t take the gloves on a full time basis till this age. Personally, it’s an excellent call from Australia.
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Wait a minute, what happened to the endless depth that team Aus is supposed to have?! I thought Sheilds cricket was second to none when producing top quality Test calibre cricketers. What am I missing here?
It is. They don't pick the best players though. They haven't for years. The two top run scorers for the last two seasons in the Shield have been told they are not required and given early retirement!
In fairness to Tim Paine he is one of the premier short form cricketers in this country and should have been playing test cricket years ago if not for that horrible broken finger.
Nevill better wash that NSW cap. He'll be using it permanently.......and I'd be picking travis head before marsh, without question.
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Squad announcement - as we expected.
Btw - those laughing about Tim Paine being included obviously haven’t seen him keep much. He’s phenomenal. Haddin didn’t take the gloves on a full time basis till this age. Personally, it’s an excellent call from Australia.
Haddin had the added bonus of being able to hit a ball with a stick into gaps as well as being a backstop.
Brett Geeves has nailed it here https://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket/australia/geeves-the-decision-to-recall-shaun-marsh-for-the-ashes-stinks-to-high-heaven/news-story/f01978306ca566ea39c1d62e40098a73 (https://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket/australia/geeves-the-decision-to-recall-shaun-marsh-for-the-ashes-stinks-to-high-heaven/news-story/f01978306ca566ea39c1d62e40098a73)
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And Chadd Sayers is finally in the national squad again. YES! Finally!
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Wait a minute, what happened to the endless depth that team Aus is supposed to have?! I thought Sheilds cricket was second to none when producing top quality Test calibre cricketers. What am I missing here?
Pat Howard.
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And Chadd Sayers is finally in the national squad again. YES! Finally!
Who?
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I'm of the opinion Tim Paine would have 50 tests and at the very least a vice captaincy under his belt if he hadnt been desperately unlucky with his finger injury. Averages 35 in test cricket, also has an ODI ton, give the guy a break, Wade only takes the gloves for tasmania because he is (was) considered the test incumbent. I for one hope he can get 3 years of a career after having been robbed of many more, good luck lad.
Shaun Marsh is pretty consistantly the stand out and classiest player in sheild cricket, anyone better is already playing for australia, he isnt lucky to be recalled, he was unlucky to be dropped for the bangladesh tour in the first place. Have to feel for Renshaw, just lost form while Bancroft was finding his, bad timing for the lad.
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I wish someone loved me as much as the Australian selectors love Shaun Marsh
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I saw Tim Payne bat years back and yes looked good back then, and highly rated as a keeper before a bad injury.
But looking at his stats there's no case for a recall that makes any sense. He does not score enough runs and the stats show that in first class cricket. You could well argue he should of been playing a few years ago but selection is about now...if your picking a keeper only and forgetting about batting(!) we could of had the same dilemma with James foster and Chris read- both head and shoulders above anyone else but not enough batting wise to get picked over say Matt prior and now bairstow.
It the Shaun marsh one that is baffling thou to some over us. If he is 34 and not too old for a recall, then ed Cowan at 35 is too old to be recalled after showing some great form in the last couple of years.
Cowan if I have read correctly even had to make way for a younger player in his state team.
So if you want a younger guy fine, go with that but what's the difference between 34 years old and 35 ?
Someone is going to reply ' a year' :)
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I can live with the Paine selection.... he's as likely , if not more , to score a few runs when compared to wade and nevill in present form . I feel for Carey , but his time will come.
I think marsh has had 8 chances in the test side now...too many times he scores runs when there is no pressure and goes missing when we need him ( hey its 4/40 , where's shaun ? He's in now ! . What , he's left the ground to go lay under a tree ? Oh . ). But , at least he goes into the first test in good form , so hopefully we see the best of him.
Bancroft should be there for sure , but in an ideal world renshaw would be in good enough form , so bancroft could bat at six , and we'd have an established keeper making plenty of runs behind him at 7 .
I really like Sayers in the squad . He needs to play at Adelaide. Maybe Lyon sits that one out .
I hope the english are getting all confident now . It's going to be a long weeks wait ....I'm looking forward to this .
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I saw Tim Payne bat years back and yes looked good back then, and highly rated as a keeper before a bad injury.
But looking at his stats there's no case for a recall that makes any sense. He does not score enough runs and the stats show that in first class cricket. You could well argue he should of been playing a few years ago but selection is about now...if your picking a keeper only and forgetting about batting(!) we could of had the same dilemma with James foster and Chris read- both head and shoulders above anyone else but not enough batting wise to get picked over say Matt prior and now bairstow.
It the Shaun marsh one that is baffling thou to some over us. If he is 34 and not too old for a recall, then ed Cowan at 35 is too old to be recalled after showing some great form in the last couple of years.
Cowan if I have read correctly even had to make way for a younger player in his state team.
So if you want a younger guy fine, go with that but what's the difference between 34 years old and 35 ?
Someone is going to reply ' a year' :)
Ed cowan for p.m !
He's my favourite player , period .
He'd be in my test side any day of the week .
He has no chance of ever playing tests while d.lehmann is coach. For some reason he hates cowan .
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I saw Tim Payne bat years back and yes looked good back then, and highly rated as a keeper before a bad injury.
But looking at his stats there's no case for a recall that makes any sense. He does not score enough runs and the stats show that in first class cricket. You could well argue he should of been playing a few years ago but selection is about now...if your picking a keeper only and forgetting about batting(!) we could of had the same dilemma with James foster and Chris read- both head and shoulders above anyone else but not enough batting wise to get picked over say Matt prior and now bairstow.
It the Shaun marsh one that is baffling thou to some over us. If he is 34 and not too old for a recall, then ed Cowan at 35 is too old to be recalled after showing some great form in the last couple of years.
Cowan if I have read correctly even had to make way for a younger player in his state team.
So if you want a younger guy fine, go with that but what's the difference between 34 years old and 35 ?
Someone is going to reply ' a year' :)
365 Days :D
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Poor selections England have a boost minus Warner smith and the bowlers place vs place England are stronger, if the Aussie bowers stay for the series then England have issues however I don’t think they willl! England 2-1 loss at Perth win Adelaide and Sydney draws gabba and mcg (possibly 3-1 eng win in Melbourne)
Several alcoholic beverages may have been consumed
COME ON ENGLAND
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Poor selections England have a boost minus Warner smith and the bowlers place vs place England are stronger, if the Aussie bowers stay for the series then England have issues however I don’t think they willl! England 2-1 loss at Perth win Adelaide and Sydney draws gabba and mcg (possibly 3-1 eng win in Melbourne)
Several alcoholic beverages may have been consumed
COME ON ENGLAND
Cook vs warner
stoneman vs Bancroft/Renshaw
Vince vs khawaja
root vs smith
malan vs Handscomb
bairstow vs Marsh
ali vs Paine
woakes vs Cummins
Overton vs starc
broad vs Hazlewood
anderson vs Lyon
Batting and bowling taken into consideration bold is winner on head to head in likely line ups, I have included Renshaw as I don’t think Bancroft will last the series
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Poor selections England have a boost minus Warner smith and the bowlers place vs place England are stronger, if the Aussie bowers stay for the series then England have issues however I don’t think they willl! England 2-1 loss at Perth win Adelaide and Sydney draws gabba and mcg (possibly 3-1 eng win in Melbourne)
Several alcoholic beverages may have been consumed
COME ON ENGLAND
Duuuuuude !
How many times do you guys need to hear that handsomb and khawaja will make plenty of runs !
This outlandish predicting has forced my hand , so i will make my own outlandish predictions .....
3-1 oz - eng to win at Adelaide and rain to play a part in one draw .
If not , then the next most likely outcomes are 4-0 or 3-0 . Less likely, but possible 3-2 with eng winning at Adelaide and the mcg . But really , i doubt eng can win more than 1 test .
You guys have more faith in vince and malan than you should , and more faith in your bowlers than you should . Also , you cant expect cook to have another summer of 10-11 again . Personally , i think you need root and bairstow ( and to a lesser degree , ali) to carry the bulk of the batting load . I just dont think they can do it for 5 tests .Lastly, cummins and starc will be more firepower then your batsmen are ever likely to encounter...and paired with quick , bouncy wickets...... you dont realise just how hostile it's going to be . There will be fear factor x 2 .
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Cook vs warner
stoneman vs Bancroft/Renshaw
Vince vs khawaja
root vs smith
malan vs Handscomb
bairstow vs Marsh
ali vs Paine
woakes vs Cummins
Overton vs starc
broad vs Hazlewood
anderson vs Lyon
Batting and bowling taken into consideration bold is winner on head to head in likely line ups, I have included Renshaw as I don’t think Bancroft will last the series
Malan over Handscomb.... not likely .
Anderson over Lyon ... not likely.
Broad over Hazlewood.....now you're just have a laugh , right ?
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Duuuuuude !
How many times do you guys need to hear that handsomb and khawaja will make plenty of runs !
This outlandish predicting has forced my hand , so i will make my own outlandish predictions .....
3-1 oz - eng to win at Adelaide and rain to play a part in one draw .
If not , then the next most likely outcomes are 4-0 or 3-0 . Less likely, but possible 3-2 with eng winning at Adelaide and the mcg . But really , i doubt eng can win more than 1 test .
You guys have more faith in vince and malan than you should , and more faith in your bowlers than you should . Also , you cant expect cook to have another summer of 10-11 again . Personally , i think you need root and bairstow ( and to a lesser degree , ali) to carry the bulk of the batting load . I just dont think they can do it for 5 tests .Lastly, cummins and starc will be more firepower then your batsmen are ever likely to encounter...and paired with quick , bouncy wickets...... you dont realise just how hostile it's going to be . There will be fear factor x 2 .
As I said you really think your quicks will be fit for all the tests?
Fear is fine except when we all know they’ll break down at some point...
I admit I am probably being overly enthusiastic about our chances but Australia are no way as strong as they’re fans say, two decent batsman and a bowling attack which is injury prone, I can’t wait for aus to be 10/20!for two and smith under pressure with a moving ball!
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Malan over Handscomb.... not likely .
Anderson over Lyon ... not likely.
Broad over Hazlewood.....now you're just have a laugh , right ?
Malan vs Handscomb likely
I can change to ali vs Lyon and have the same result and I’d take a 300+ Test wickets over Hazlewood any day if the week
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As I said you really think your quicks will be fit for all the tests?
Fear is fine except when we all know they’ll break down at some point...
I admit I am probably being overly enthusiastic about our chances but Australia are no way as strong as they’re fans say, two decent batsman and a bowling attack which is injury prone, I can’t wait for aus to be 10/20!for two and smith under pressure with a moving ball!
Your main mistake is thinking we only have two decent batsmen .
Also , starc and hazlewood will be fine . Cummins , who knows ....but starc and hazlewood with bird/sayers would be just fine by me . You guys have just as much to worry about re quick bowlers lasting the series . Broad is bowling slowly and looks tired . If anderson or woakes get injured you'll miss them more than if one of our bowlers goes down . And then what are you left with ? About as much as, or maybe less than , our reserve stocks .
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Be interesting, Anderson is an ordinary trundler here in Aus averaging nearly 40 and Broad very injury prone with only about 20 wickets at well over 30. Gut feeling is at home we should be way to good for England, hopefully it's some good hard competitive cricket.
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Who?
Chadd Sayers is, statistically, the best domestic bowler in Australia over the last 18 months.
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Your main mistake is thinking we only have two decent batsmen .
Also , starc and hazlewood will be fine . Cummins , who knows ....but starc and hazlewood with bird/sayers would be just fine by me . You guys have just as much to worry about re quick bowlers lasting the series . Broad is bowling slowly and looks tired . If anderson or woakes get injured you'll miss them more than if one of our bowlers goes down . And then what are you left with ? About as much as, or maybe less than , our reserve stocks .
Pat Cummins has been poor so far this season and is notoriously brittle. Let's hope Sayers plays before he does.
@Biggie Smalls , what's the chances that Wade will now become a T20 mercenary on the world tour? Test career is cooked, unfavoured even in Tasmania apparently. Can't see him playing too many games for Clarence in Tassie.
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Pat Cummins has been poor so far this season and is notoriously brittle. Let's hope Sayers plays before he does.
@Biggie Smalls , what's the chances that Wade will now become a T20 mercenary on the world tour? Test career is cooked, unfavoured even in Tasmania apparently. Can't see him playing too many games for Clarence in Tassie.
i can see him moving back to Melbourne hoping he can leapfrog seb gotch etc. you're probably right he could become a t20 gun for hire.....only problem is the gun is really firing atm ! he did concede if he didn't get picked for this test then his test career is over....that may make his decision easier too.
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and yeah @Nmcgee if cummins goes down and sayers gets the nod it could be a blessing in disguise.
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100 for malan too!
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Aussie members - what’s the reaction to Paine being selected?
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The media reaction is one of mid level shock .
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How many more chances can Marsh get. Anyone know what the count is now??
Most chances any test cricketer has had?
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In and out 8 times.
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How many more chances can Marsh get. Anyone know what the count is now??
Most chances any test cricketer has had?
9th recall according to the radio this morning.
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Be interesting, Anderson is an ordinary trundler here in Aus averaging nearly 40 and Broad very injury prone with only about 20 wickets at well over 30. Gut feeling is at home we should be way to good for England, hopefully it's some good hard competitive cricket.
Although correct don't forget England have Chris Woakes
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Although correct don't forget England have Chris Woakes
Jaws around the land break upon impact with the floor as @Seniorplayer sticks up for Woakes......
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Jaws around the land break upon impact with the floor as @Seniorplayer sticks up for Woakes......
Well he is playing for England.
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Amazing to think that in 2015 Tim Paine was Banbury's overseas player in the HCPL.
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Cook vs warner
stoneman vs Bancroft/Renshaw
Vince vs khawaja
root vs smith
malan vs Handscomb
bairstow vs Marsh
ali vs Paine
woakes vs Cummins
Overton vs starc
broad vs Hazlewood
anderson vs Lyon
Batting and bowling taken into consideration bold is winner on head to head in likely line ups, I have included Renshaw as I don’t think Bancroft will last the series
STONEMAN Av: 30 hs of 52 vs RENSHAW av: 36 hs of 184.
MALAN Av: 23 hs of 65 vs HANDSCOMB Av: 53 hs of 110.
What drugs are you taking and where can I get them?
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STONEMAN Av: 30 hs of 52 vs RENSHAW av: 36 hs of 184.
MALAN Av: 23 hs of 65 vs HANDSCOMB Av: 53 hs of 110.
What drugs are you taking and where can I get them?
When it comes to the Ashes averages mean nothing... it is all about who can handle the pressure and stand up and put in the real performances that win you the matches.... who has the kahunas!!
Example - 2013/14 last time we were in Oz, when we lost 5-0 - Johnson got all the headlines (and rightly so) but if Haddin had not stood up in the key moments and got runs (when the top 5 had got not much at all) when it mattered for Oz then that series would have been a lot closer.
I can't wait till next week!
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How many more chances can Marsh get. Anyone know what the count is now??
Most chances any test cricketer has had?
8 or 9 times.....so that makes s.marsh a cat !
He sure does bat like a pussy sometimes . ;)
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STONEMAN Av: 30 hs of 52 vs RENSHAW av: 36 hs of 184.
MALAN Av: 23 hs of 65 vs HANDSCOMB Av: 53 hs of 110.
What drugs are you taking and where can I get them?
I’m talking who I’d rather have in my side and who I think will have the better series,
And it was alcohol and any local supermarket/offie/pub? ;)
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On Stoneman vs Bancroft, I reckon Stoneman is unlikely to be made to look as much of a muppet as Bancroft is in the first clip of this video ;)
https://twitter.com/SussexCCC/status/930165680376336389
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Anyone noticed Ben Stokes Instagram over last hour? Having a bowl off his full run up at Durham and labelling his blank bats up with redbull branding. A further sign of him going to ashes? Think it's a bit late to be involved with 1st test but likely 2nd.
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Anyone noticed Ben Stokes Instagram over last hour? Having a bowl off his full run up at Durham and labelling his blank bats up with redbull branding. A further sign of him going to ashes? Think it's a bit late to be involved with 1st test but likely 2nd.
Got a link to these? Can't seem to see them personally.
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Although correct don't forget England have Chris Woakes
(https://i.imgur.com/paCDaZq.gif)
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Got a link to these? Can't seem to see them personally.
https://storiesig.com/stories/stokesy
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Anyone noticed Ben Stokes Instagram over last hour? Having a bowl off his full run up at Durham and labelling his blank bats up with redbull branding. A further sign of him going to ashes? Think it's a bit late to be involved with 1st test but likely 2nd.
You have to see his Instagram story to see them. Looks like just the back red bull he always had on blank bats
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On Stoneman vs Bancroft, I reckon Stoneman is unlikely to be made to look as much of a muppet as Bancroft is in the first clip of this video ;)
https://twitter.com/SussexCCC/status/930165680376336389
I think Starc is very likely to make Stoneman look a bit of a mupped at times
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When it comes to the Ashes averages mean nothing... it is all about who can handle the pressure and stand up and put in the real performances that win you the matches.... who has the kahunas.
Well said.
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If its about who has the 'kahunas' then Handscomb and khawaja will be the only blokes doing any good ! I think the word we are looking for is 'cajones'.
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If its about who has the 'kahunas' then Handscomb and khawaja will be the only blokes doing any good ! I think the word we are looking for is 'cajones'.
Lol... very good mate... apologies for my spelling etc... I feel my point got across none the less.
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Howd England bowlers do yesterday? ;)
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Howd England bowlers do yesterday? ;)
Deliberate ploy to confuse the Aussie selectors. Those 2 lads that had runs will be batting 4&5 in Adelaide. Paul Reiffel also called up as back up to Hazlewood after taking a 4fer in 1998
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If you add everything into the mix incl the Aussie selections which seem to be odd for a lot of us over here, Home conditions , Starc Cummins Hazlewood Warner and smith
Cook root bairstow and our bowlers and a more settled team than Australia ......
On paper it looks a close series, I don't think either side can say they are real favourites to win
It might not be real quality but it could be close, and if it's close its exciting
First test can't come soon enough...it's dark damp and cold over here! Not cricket weather at all. :)
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On paper it looks a close series, I don't think either side can say they are real favourites to win
I think you are kidding yourself if you dont make Australia large favorites. They are in the eyes of all bookies
Whilst they might lack intellect, they do have a bloody good pace attack
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I think we (England) are going to really struggle to take wickets,can see the Aussies piling on the runs. I also think the extra pace that the Aussies have will make all the difference.Fear we will struggle...hope in wrong!
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Maybe too much is being made of the aussie pace attack. Yeah, on a whole itll be quicker than the poms but thats not really the measure of how successful they'll be. The bowling comparison doesn't reflect the ability of your batting lineup to play pace. Which im assuming you can. And i can't imagine (as much as i hope) that Broad and Anderson have all of a sudden forgotten how to take wickets. So for me thats not a factor either. Itll be a tight series. Oh and Ecb and the plod will hurry stokes over as soon as they think any backlash will have subsided to a managable level. Likely in time for the second test. And that makes things even tighter. Can not wait for Thursday!!!
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If you add everything into the mix incl the Aussie selections which seem to be odd for a lot of us over here, Home conditions , Starc Cummins Hazlewood Warner and smith
Cook root bairstow and our bowlers and a more settled team than Australia ......
O
On paper it looks a close series, I don't think either side can say they are real favourites to win
It might not be real quality but it could be close, and if it's close its exciting
First test can't come soon enough...it's dark damp and cold over here! Not cricket weather at all. :)
Agree it could be close Aussies bang on about home advantage and what there bowling attack is going to do but if the ball doesn't swing do England have the bowlers to take 20 wickets each test
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Yes could be. I think England will seriously think about playing Mason Crane for variety, but he cannot get in the team at the expense of a seamer that leaves us too short in Aussie conditions.
If Stokes was in the side it makes it easier to play another spinner(Crane), as it is now can't see how 2 spinners get in to the team.
Announcement on whether Stokes is charged by police this week. If he is not charged I'm sure he will play a part from second test onwards.
If he is charged there's no way he will take part in the tour at all
In my view anyway.
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Couple of interesting articles that seem to have slipped under the radar:
Police likely to make Ben Stokes assault incident decision this week
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/11/18/police-likely-make-ben-stokes-assault-incident-decision-week/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/11/18/police-likely-make-ben-stokes-assault-incident-decision-week/)
Ben Stokes investigation nears conclusion after England all-rounder gives final statement to police
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/11/20/ben-stokesinvestigation-nears-conclusion-england-all-rounder/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/11/20/ben-stokesinvestigation-nears-conclusion-england-all-rounder/)
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Just to add The expectations are Stokes will be available for the third test.
He also has to face the ECB disciplinary commitee
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I don't think anything will happen to him - there is not enough evidence for police charge and any tests he misses will be enough for the retrospective ban for bringing hte ECB into disrepute.
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Agree should have written Ben needs to be cleared by the disciplinary commitee
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Don't need him, Moeen and Woakes will have torn the Aussies apart before Stokes can get on the plane.
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Don't need him, Moeen and Woakes will have torn the Aussies apart before Stokes can get on the plane.
Hope your right bring on Wednesday night.
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Just watched Stokes training session on his Instagram page. Unless he's expecting a barrage of short balls in County Durham in the near future I would say he knows he will be travelling to Australia soon
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Just watched Stokes training session on his Instagram page. Unless he's expecting a barrage of short balls in County Durham in the near future I would say he knows he will be travelling to Australia soon
I thought that! Seems to be a hell of a lot of short ball prep going on in the vids
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Well...couple of days to go and Nathan Lyon has lost his marbles in the press
The problem with huge predictions and boastful claims is cricket has a habit of biting you in the bottom.
Faced with opponents who want to win as much as you do I don't expect England to give up any games without a real fight.
I think the Aussies are putting pressure on themselves they simply don't need.
Apart from a frank exchange be of views with Steve Waugh, Curtley Ambrose never said anything to anyone on the filed or off it.
And the great Richards always let his bat do the talking . :)
If England are level or even ahead halfway thru this series I don't think the Aussie players will be able to rely on the support of their fans, or their press!
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Well...couple of days to go and Nathan Lyon has lost his marbles in the press
The problem with huge predictions and boastful claims is cricket has a habit of biting you in the bottom.
Faced with opponents who want to win as much as you do I don't expect England to give up any games without a real fight.
I think the Aussies are putting pressure on themselves they simply don't need.
Apart from a frank exchange be of views with Steve Waugh, Curtley Ambrose never said anything to anyone on the filed or off it.
And the great Richards always let his bat do the talking . :)
If England are level or even ahead halfway thru this series I don't think the Aussie players will be able to rely on the support of their fans, or their press!
Regarding Lyon talking to the media/loosing his marbles - i thought what he said about hazlewood was a bit over exaggerated but the rest was basically just reliving the experience of the previous home ashes series .
Chances are that the english batsmen will be put under similar stress to last time out here . They may well respond differently , but seeing that the names on the batting sheet are less impressive than last time -if it could happen then , then it's not so outlandish to think something similar could happen this time .
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Just watched Stokes training session on his Instagram page. Unless he's expecting a barrage of short balls in County Durham in the near future I would say he knows he will be travelling to Australia soon
Hope to see him out here soon . He will be exciting to watch . It will be great theatre .
Seeing all these english batsmen preparing for short pitch bowling , using ramps etc , is impressive and definitely good practice for what will await them . But i can't help thinking 'i dont see anyone practicing playing 150kmph reverse swinging yorkers'. They are going to face a fair bit of that too and it will take more wickets than the bouncers will .
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Regarding Lyon talking to the media/loosing his marbles - i thought what he said about hazlewood was a bit over exaggerated but the rest was basically just reliving the experience of the previous home ashes series .
Chances are that the english batsmen will be put under similar stress to last time out here . They may well respond differently , but seeing that the names on the batting sheet are less impressive than last time -if it could happen then , then it's not so outlandish to think something similar could happen this time .
Johnson was on fire last time And for a series he got it absolutely right, the angle and the pace did us and the wheels did fall off that tour, it's no good denying that never happened.
Hazlewood,Starc and Cummins are good bowlers, no doubt. But this is not Thompson and Lille from the 70's batsmen play pace at lot better than they used too...a load of protective equipment helps :)
I just think this whole build up has been underestimating England , neither side is a great test team, just to good ones.
If England can hang in here in the early part of the tour it could well be close.
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WACA comes calling
Lyon's comments are bordering on pathetic. Not sure I understand why he's taking shots at a bloke who's been retired for 2 years, won 3 Ashes series and had a test average of 40 batting #7 as a keeper/batsman
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Regarding Lyon talking to the media/loosing his marbles - i thought what he said about hazlewood was a bit over exaggerated but the rest was basically just reliving the experience of the previous home ashes series .
Chances are that the english batsmen will be put under similar stress to last time out here . They may well respond differently , but seeing that the names on the batting sheet are less impressive than last time -if it could happen then , then it's not so outlandish to think something similar could happen this time .
Snore, the Australians have been talking a lot of nonsense about this kind of thing, 'opening the scars' and all this. I'm sure Trott/KP/Bell/Prior would be terribly worried about it, if they were playing... Looking forward to seeing Pat Cummins get overexcited and try to bounce Cook out, Australian back injury specialists are warming up the scanners already!
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The article came across as pretty tongue in cheek to me, its no mystery what the Aussie plan of attack is, just reinforcing that hostile mentality to remind them that careers can be made or destroyed in these series. Seems like a bit of tactical banter, get the slow bowler to ruffle some feathers in the media, fire the batsmen up to go after him and try make a point and be made a fool of in doing so. Youre kidding yourself if you think that at this point players are being allowed to put things into the media that the team, coaching staff and press departments dont want to be said. Let the games begin!
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stokes also on twitter getting involved in the ashes talk. Hearing he’s likely to fly out over the weekend in time for the second test
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Snore, the Australians have been talking a lot of nonsense about this kind of thing, 'opening the scars' and all this. I'm sure Trott/KP/Bell/Prior would be terribly worried about it, if they were playing... Looking forward to seeing Pat Cummins get overexcited and try to bounce Cook out, Australian back injury specialists are warming up the scanners already!
What 'opening the scars' amounts to is 'it been done last time , it worked , it may work this time , we will try it' and i dont see how that can be nonsense . Personally , i think it will work a treat , but if it fails , it was worth a go .
And as for the 'snore' ie you're tired of hearing the same stuff .....well im kinda tired of 'the aussie bowlers wont last a test before breaking down' etc etc. If thats what you need to say to mentally even out the ledger then you are being desperate (even if its a likely eventuality it desperate to cling to that for hope). England should hope one of our pace bowlers doesn't go down bringing Sayers into the team .
I'm so glad so many english fans think the aussie bowlers are nothing special /wont go the distance etc etc ..... thats a great way to be set up for a big fall .
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What 'opening the scars' amounts to is 'it been done last time , it worked , it may work this time , we will try it' and i dont see how that can be nonsense . Personally , i think it will work a treat , but if it fails , it was worth a go .
And as for the 'snore' ie you're tired of hearing the same stuff .....well im kinda tired of 'the aussie bowlers wont last a test before breaking down' etc etc. If thats what you need to say to mentally even out the ledger then you are being desperate (even if its a likely eventuality it desperate to cling to that for hope). England should hope one of our pace bowlers doesn't go down bringing Sayers into the team .
I'm so glad so many english fans think the aussie bowlers are nothing special /wont go the distance etc etc ..... thats a great way to be set up for a big fall .
Nah that's what you've chosen to take it as yourself, not what it actually says ;)
As for the Aussie pace attack, meh. They're a decent attack, but that is what you'd expect in test cricket. No allrounder is a problem for me, who's bowling the extra overs? Looked a lot more threatening with Mitchell Marsh in the side, can't believe Cartwright doesn't seem to be taken seriously?
Hazlewood looks to be the best, but he's not unusually threatening for test level. Bowled better than his career stats in the last Ashes, didn't affect much. Starc - could be a problem if he consistently cleans up the tail. Good yorkers but that doesn't get you hatfuls against the top order in tests. Cummins, lots of hype. From what I've seen in international cricket, decent bowler but haven't seen much outstanding. Still facing third man at point of release by the looks of things so yes, more injuries to come. Just had to look up Sayers, looks very tidy but if English batsmen (other than Vince) can't play that style of bowling we're in real trouble!
Lyon is the key for me, underrated in Oz particularly. If he goes well and gets through a lot of overs, Australia are likely to be on top. If one or two of the England batsmen get on top of him then Australia are in serious trouble trying to find extra overs as Starc/Cummins get slower and less effective. The flatter the pitches are, the more likely an Aussie win. If they do a bit, I'll very happily back England. Other than the obvious players, Dawid Malan could be key.
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I think Lyon will bowl extra overs to cover for no allrounder and he'll do well /not get hit out of the attack . India are better players of spin than england and Lyon did well against them the last time they toured oz . Who will take Lyon down anyway ? Only guys i see potentially going ok against him are Root and Bairstow (and Stokes when he arrives). That's not enough to negate Lyon having an impact and getting big overs in .
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Matt Prior:
"Last time someone spouted a whole load of BS about me I stayed quiet not this time.To be clear I may have been playing badly fair enough but there was no way I was getting on a plane home. You’ve embarrassed yourself @NathLyon421 & this game has a funny way of biting back."
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Aus are expected to go with Starc, Cummings and Hazelwood plus Lyon.
Now the thing is the group have never played together before and are very injury prone.
If the English batsmen can stay out there for any length of time then we are in with a good shout of the Aussies having big problems...
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Aus are expected to go with Starc, Cummings and Hazelwood plus Lyon.
Now the thing is the group have never played together before and are very injury prone.
If the English batsmen can stay out there for any length of time then we are in with a good shout of the Aussies having big problems...
Those four played the 2nd shield game of the season together . Not much , but just saying .
Lyon , Starc and Hazlewood have played plenty of test/shield games together . Cummins has played a couple tests with hazlewood and lyon , and played quite a number of odis with starc and hazlewood. All in all i think 'the group have never played together before' is a bit off the mark .
Yes starc is a bit injury prone . So is cummins . Hazlewood is coming back from an injury , yes , but is far from injury prone . If hazlewood is injury prone then woakes is injury prone simply because he was injured during the english summer .
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Aus are expected to go with Starc, Cummings and Hazelwood plus Lyon.
Now the thing is the group have never played together before and are very injury prone.
If the English batsmen can stay out there for any length of time then we are in with a good shout of the Aussies having big problems...
And thats England problem how many are capable of batting long
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What 'opening the scars' amounts to is 'it been done last time , it worked , it may work this time , we will try it' and i dont see how that can be nonsense . Personally , i think it will work a treat , but if it fails , it was worth a go .
And as for the 'snore' ie you're tired of hearing the same stuff .....well im kinda tired of 'the aussie bowlers wont last a test before breaking down' etc etc. If thats what you need to say to mentally even out the ledger then you are being desperate (even if its a likely eventuality it desperate to cling to that for hope). England should hope one of our pace bowlers doesn't go down bringing Sayers into the team .
I'm so glad so many english fans think the aussie bowlers are nothing special /wont go the distance etc etc ..... thats a great way to be set up for a big fall .
Never mind the Aussie bowlers breaking down more concern our guys won't last the series
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Are you a secret Aussie or something @Seniorplayer?
The whole build up to this series has been a bit of a farce IMO - the Aussies spouting their mouths off is just the cherry on top. Their batting line up involves someone who was playing Home Counties Prem a few years ago (and was due to go back in 2018!) yet they still have the balls to call out England's top order?!?
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(https://i.imgur.com/8qp2xcL.jpg)
Hahaha
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(https://i.imgur.com/8qp2xcL.jpg)
Hahaha
#Village :D
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Warner blasts Stokes too for getting himself in trouble
Pot kettle black or what?
:)
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Are you a secret Aussie or something @Seniorplayer?
The whole build up to this series has been a bit of a farce IMO - the Aussies spouting their mouths off is just the cherry on top. Their batting line up involves someone who was playing Home Counties Prem a few years ago (and was due to go back in 2018!) yet they still have the balls to call out England's top order?!?
Nope witnessed to many years of getting hammered as for
The build up From the Aussies it is now the norm for them they will pull every stunt known to man on and off the field to gain an advantage.
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Matt Prior:
"Last time someone spouted a whole load of BS about me I stayed quiet not this time.To be clear I may have been playing badly fair enough but there was no way I was getting on a plane home. You’ve embarrassed yourself @NathLyon421 & this game has a funny way of biting back."
I also like this from Prior on Twitter -
"I sincerely hope you’re not part of a losing @CricketAus team on home soil @NathLyon421. I still remember being sat on the outfield at the SCG after winning 3-1 while your press&fans were tearing into the Oz players. You want to end careers? Just make sure its not yours that ends"
I really am not sure why Lyon brought Prior into it - i don't mind the pre-ashes banter, trying to get in the oppo's head etc.... it is all part of the Ashes build up these days... where i think Lyon has gone a bit loopy is he has brought into it a player who is retired and is basically guessing calling him a coward etc...
I mean for example i have no problems with what Warner said about Stokes because that is just cranking the pressure on something that is basically true, he has let his teammates down.
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Warner injured his neck in fielding drills. Could only face 2 balls in the Nets before calling it a day.
At this rate it'll look like the Aussies did go on strike after all...
"In at 1, opening with that bloke you only heard of 15 minutes ago, is Kev, from Brissy"
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Lyon’s been pretty vocal last few tours...think the GOAT title has gone to his head, particularly for a spinner who doesn’t take wickets away from home
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comedy from Mo.... as he is offered the BT Sport app free to watch the Ashes live - due to being an EE customer :D :D
http://sport.bt.com/cricket/see-the-alternative-way-moeen-ali-has-been-offered-to-watch-the-ashes-S11364230725665 (http://sport.bt.com/cricket/see-the-alternative-way-moeen-ali-has-been-offered-to-watch-the-ashes-S11364230725665)
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You realize a lot of the talk is orchestrated to attract interest in a series involving 2 pretty mediocre teams.
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Jake Ball it is to replace Stokes then, meh. Hope he goes well obviously but I'd rather have seen Overton play personally.
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think Bayliss wants a bit of extra pace and bounce. Not sure there is much between ball and Overton really.
Broad,Anderson,ball,woakes we have enough seamers if it goes to 5 days. You have to bowl well thou, short and wide and we will go round the park.
Old saying the first test is crucial, this one really is thou...
Can't wait...
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Ball in, just confirmed on talksport.
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Ball has a very good FC record but has looked a bit gash in all the ODI's I have seen him in. Has he ever gone for less than 70 from his 10?
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Should we start a new thread specifically for the test series as this is nearing 1000 replies?
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Theres an article on cricinfo that says Mark Wood netted with the England squad yesterday and was sharp.
Would be great to have him as an option in a 4 seamer attack at some stage, Perth & Melbourne perhaps
All in all I think England have picked a solid looking team, whilst Stoneman, Malan and Ball are inexperienced at test level I think they all have enough fight in them to succeed on this tour.
Our 4 seamers are a little one paced which is my main fear. Lets hope we can find some reverse swing to take wickets with the old ball otherwise there could be some long partnerships to endure
Its Game day - come on England!
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Would have preferred Overton but heyho, time for talk is over let’s get behind the boys and support!
This england can cause problems and let’s hope they do!!
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Theres an article on cricinfo that says Mark Wood netted with the England squad yesterday and was sharp.
Would be great to have him as an option in a 4 seamer attack at some stage, Perth & Melbourne perhaps
All in all I think England have picked a solid looking team, whilst Stoneman, Malan and Ball are inexperienced at test level I think they all have enough fight in them to succeed on this tour.
Our 4 seamers are a little one paced which is my main fear. Lets hope we can find some reverse swing to take wickets with the old ball otherwise there could be some long partnerships to endure
Its Game day - come on England!
Yes come on England what happens in the first test usually sets the tone for the series shall watch tonight until the flu knocks me out.
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Would have preferred Overton but heyho, time for talk is over let’s get behind the boys and support!
This england can cause problems and let’s hope they do!!
Me too, think what counted against him is for a guy who is a Bowling allrounder, he hasn't troubled the scorers much recently. Will be a big difference going from a bottom 4 of Ali, Woakes, Broad and Anderson to Woakes, Broad, Anderson Ball.
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I can’t be bothered to scroll through previous pages incase it’s been mentioned before, but are there going to be any highlights shown on Sky sports?
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Highlights of the 2017-18 series will be shown for FREE.
After every day's play, the best bits will be available to watch on BTSport.com and the BT Sport app.
At 7pm after game day, highlights are uploaded for all to watch.
If you've missed out from past days, all action from the series is on BT's Ashes hub.
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Highlights of the 2017-18 series will be shown for FREE.
After every day's play, the best bits will be available to watch on BTSport.com and the BT Sport app.
At 7pm after game day, highlights are uploaded for all to watch.
If you've missed out from past days, all action from the series is on BT's Ashes hub.
On BT or sky??
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It's all on BT.
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On BT or sky??
You can get BT sports on your Sky platform for an extra £5.00 per month.
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Or watch them online.
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Maxwell called in for cover ....not only for Warners neck issue , but for Marshs back complaint. Marsh is the perennial crock , i hope he gets ruled out and bigshow comes in ....that is the good news i hope to wake up to tomorrow. Fingers crossed.
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I can’t be bothered to scroll through previous pages incase it’s been mentioned before, but are there going to be any highlights shown on Sky sports?
Or if you are with EE or know someone kind who is you can get FREE BT Sports through their app for 3 months - which covers the whole Test and ODI series.
Check out Moeen Alis Instagram for details.
I did it last evening and unfortunately watched the back end of a Spurs win.
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Or if you are with EE or know someone kind who is you can get FREE BT Sports through their app for 3 months - which covers the whole Test and ODI series.
Check out Moeen Alis Instagram for details.
I did it last evening and unfortunately watched the back end of a Spurs win.
Just signed up!!
Amazing - thank you so much
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The free EE offer only works on devices with an EE sim... So no borrowing a log-in off a mate. You can't cast from said device either, so you're stuck watching on a phone or tablet screen
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I've ordered a Chromecast so I can watch on my bedroom TV using the BT sports app. Anyone else doing something similar?
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The free EE offer only works on devices with an EE sim... So no borrowing a log-in off a mate. You can't cast from said device either, so you're stuck watching on a phone or tablet screen
I was watching champions league on my laptop last night
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Just tried it on my 02 mobile aswell and it works.
Currently watching ashes classics. Phil Edmonds has just been caught silly point. Eng 514-8
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Just tried it on my 02 mobile aswell and it works.
Currently watching ashes classics. Phil Edmonds has just been caught silly point. Eng 514-8
You signed up to an EE offer with an 02 sim card?!
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You signed up to an EE offer with an 02 sim card?!
No. I used the same details on the BT app on my phone which I did on my laptop to sign up yesterday
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All the advice from EE saying it won't work must just be scaremongering then!
...need to find a non-sports fan EE customer now!
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Will I get in trouble if I post an Acestream link?
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All the advice from EE saying it won't work must just be scaremongering then!
...need to find a non-sports fan EE customer now!
Or someone who already has BT Sports.
The phone app cut out after a few minutes but Im not sure if that was 4G problems or BT
But I had it on for a few hours on the laptop last night with no issue
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Will I get in trouble if I post an Acestream link?
Yeah, loads.
The cricket police will raid the premises from where you posted the link within 3 minutes of you hitting send
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Yeah, loads.
The cricket police will raid the premises from where you posted the link within 3 minutes of you hitting send
I can see BT Tower outside my window. Eeek.
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You can get BT sports on your Sky platform for an extra £5.00 per month.
Where is this? Everything I look at states that to get BT sports onto your sky cost around £25 a month after 6 months free
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Where is this? Everything I look at states that to get BT sports onto your sky cost around £25 a month after 6 months free
Read it this morning and just checked again it's on the web SPORT BT COM page
Scroll down its under heading :
How do I get BT Sport to watch the Ashes
Followed by switch today and we can activate BT sport on your Sky platform for £ 5.00 per month.
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Read it this morning and just checked again it's on the web SPORT BT COM page
Scroll down its under heading :
How do I get BT Sport to watch the Ashes
Followed by switch today and we can activate BT sport on your Sky platform for £ 5.00 per month.
I have had this deal since around 2 months ago but had to have bt broadband to get it for a 5er
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Yep looks like you need BT broadband which isn't possible for me unfortunately :(
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I have BT sports so don't need my EE ID that i'm currently in the process of getting so if anybody wants to give it ago to see if it works give me a shout. Should have it in the next 30 mins or so.
Ian
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Just signed for 3 months free BT Sports on phone. See what it's like!
Can cancel at any time so no brainer really. Only a fiver a month after that although i only ever watch cricket, rugby and F1 - so will need to check out what channels are like!
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I just tried using my Mrs EE sign in on the BT sports app on my Vodafone phone and it came up with an error message saying it needed to be an EE device to watch live content :(
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Any word on if YJB has a new sponsor ready for the test? Has it been announced and I missed it?
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I was just browsing the various website looking for free Ashes Video stream in US, I came across the offer from BT Sport being free on Sky TV for 3 months. Not sure if that was mentioned before - https://www.productsandservices.bt.com/products/bt-sport/packages/ (https://www.productsandservices.bt.com/products/bt-sport/packages/)
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I just tried using my Mrs EE sign in on the BT sports app on my Vodafone phone and it came up with an error message saying it needed to be an EE device to watch live content :(
Have you tried on laptop? I used my dad's EE log in on my idmobile phone,I couldn't watch live sport only highlights. However on my laptop downloaded the bt sport app onto my lenova yoga and touch wood seems fine.Bit of a delay and buffering but hopefully come midnight tonight the rest of my sodding Village will have stopped nicking all the WiFi!
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So it seems YJB still has no sponsor. Will he be walking out at the Gabba with a blank stick?
I'm still half expecting there is going to be a big reveal when he comes in to bat, rocking full kit from someone or other!
https://www.instagram.com/p/BbyrbgCFUkE/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/BbyrbgCFUkE/)
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So it seems YJB still has no sponsor. Will he be walking out at the Gabba with a blank stick?
I'm still half expecting there is going to be a big reveal when he comes in to bat, rocking full kit from someone or other!
https://www.instagram.com/p/BbyrbgCFUkE/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/BbyrbgCFUkE/)
I reckon it's Mars Cricket and he was waiting for their sale.
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Joe Root has won the toss
The first of many victories for England this series? ;)
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We are avin a bat.
Settle in and get the coffee on :)
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Joe Root has won the toss
The first of many victories for England this series? ;)
If only Englands odds of victory were as good as the odds of wining the toss....
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Best time to watch cricket in California. Match starts at 4 PM PST .. kick back and relax with a 6 pack.
Warner & Marsh are in the lineup, so Maxi sits out again.
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Goosebumps!
Love the post Ashes national anthems
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If you go to cricfree.sc you can get live streaming for free. It's not HD quality but it works. Sat watching it now :)
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Root looked a bit nervous to me, we do need a good session here to settle in I think. The Aussie record at this ground is phenomenal
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Realised I had BT Sport on my phone as it is bundled with my EE contract, just means I have to watch all the test matches through a 5in screen.
Better than nothing i suppose
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Never seen that before - Aussie fielder walks in, gives Stoneman some chat, bends down and uses both hands to rub out Stoneman's guard! Try that in the lower leagues and you'll get a bat wrapped round your head haha.
Vaughan and Clarke is a shocking opening commentary pair.
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Yeeesssss!!!!!
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What the hell is wrong with Cook?!!!!!
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What the hell is wrong with Cook?!!!!!
Guess he got bored and decided that maybe Stoneman should take the heat this time around :-)
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James Vince is sex
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BanTer Sport is (No Swearing Please)
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Hazlewood bowling junk.
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@rickjames Vince is sex... But all too often he's also premature ejaculation
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The usual bounce and speed is just not there. Pitch seems very subdued today. Maybe it will pick up speed tomorrow .. Cook missed out a golden chance to make a solid start against Aus. Vince & Stoneman are looking good despite being Ashes first timers.
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Decent partnership hopefully building here, good chance for these 2 to put a stamp on the series early doors
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Interesting that spin looks more threatening than the quick stuff. But then the wicket is nice and slow.
Good start - they are both playing well.
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An excellent first session
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Not liking the low amount of instant replays, no analysis not to mention terrible commentary team. Glad I didn’t shell out £25 a month for this guff
BBS (Bring Back Sky)
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They need to replace the commentators ... very very bad!
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They need to replace the commentators ... very very bad!
They are horrible aren't they, Clarke, Warne and KP ruin it for me.
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Stoneman has the air of a man who every time he relaxes between balls is internally thinking 'Pinch me, I'm playing in the Ashes! In Australia! This is great, they're even sledging me and everything! This is (No Swearing Please) mint!'
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Up early doors! Well batted Vince and Stoneman who is prepared to dig in
Must agree about the presenters, with the exception of Alison Mitchell. Something very sexy about a female presenter who knows about cricket
You can imagine coming home on a Saturday after a low score and then getting technical advise in bed
Keep going England :)
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Paine with a drop, best gloveman in the country
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Watched live until lunch. Pleasant position to wake up to.. now for a caffeine loaded day at work
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Great fielding, but that is a (No Swearing Please) run.
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Watched the first hour and expected a collapse when I woke up. So silly from Vince having done the hard yards, still be batted very well
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Too many full length deliveries from Australia. Kudos to England for playing the patience game. Vince and Stoneman scored a lot out of the full length balls.
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Great fielding, but that is a (No Swearing Please) run.
When have you ever seen Lyon do that though? They ran based on it was him and far enough to his right
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hazlewood bowled (No Swearing Please). cook was rubbish. starc was mediocre. cummins was pretty good later on. stoneman was good and patient. vince was excellent (dodgy run aside). Lyon bowled great for no reward. Pitch already exploding through the top to spin. Paines keeping on general was ordinary.
Even Stevens so far.
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When have you ever seen Lyon do that though? They ran based on it was him and far enough to his right
They took one hit to the right hand side of a right handed cover fielder. Think you have to consider that a poor run even if you don't back him to hit the stumps.
hazlewood bowled (No Swearing Please). cook was rubbish. starc was mediocre. cummins was pretty good later on. stoneman was good and patient. vince was excellent (dodgy run aside). Lyon bowled great for no reward. Pitch already exploding through the top to spin. Paines keeping on general was ordinary.
Even Stevens so far.
I'd say England a nose in front overall, if only because of the 3 questionable batsmen 2 got runs and looked good and the 3rd is not out and looked decent too. If you swap Cook and Roots innings' with Stoneman and Vince we'd be a bit more worried series wise I think.
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Impressive bowling from Lyon, who would’ve thought he would out bowl the seamers given all the pre talk
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Why is Ali batting in front of Bairstow.
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Impressive bowling from Lyon, who would’ve thought he would out bowl the seamers given all the pre talk
Considering the pitch its understandable though . Who would have thought a gabba pitch would be exploding through the top on day 1 ?
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Why is Ali batting in front of Bairstow.
Night Watchman!!!!
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Night Watchman!!!!
I don't think so.
Ali has been moved up to no. 6 as the powers that be "feel Bairstow has found his place at 7"
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I thought Bairstow might have be half way sticking the sponsors stickers on his blank bat
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Considering the pitch its understandable though . Who would have thought a gabba pitch would be exploding through the top on day 1 ?
Good toss to win! If it is taking spin well already, then batting last could be a nightmare!
Obviously Mo will be looking forward to giving it a rip. But as Malan has similar First Class bowling average to Mo and far better than Root, I wonder if he may get bowl before Root?
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I don't think so.
Ali has been moved up to no. 6 as the powers that be "feel Bairstow has found his place at 7"
I suspect Ali will be fine at 6 or 8! He seems to do a decent job most of the time.
Interested to see when there will be more news on Stokes? There surely has to be some soon! When do the Police need to decide whether they are charging him or not?
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England’s day just, 6 wickets in the shed and decent lower order to come,
Malan or Ali need a biggie and first session tomorrow vital!
If the pitch gets a bit quicker and maintains the movement England’s bowers will be a handful!
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England felt YJB was much better than Ali at batting with the tail.
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Really pleased for Vince,very easy on the eye. Hopefully this gives him some confidence to have a good series and build a test career! Morning session absolutely crucial,still slightly nervous as we have a tendency to collapse! Hoping Malan and Ali both get big tons and we post 450 plus!!
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I'm dying to know who's stickers Bairstow is gonna be using, the tension is killing me!
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The new ball is key! It's just been taken so Ali and Malan need to get through the first 20-30 overs with no more than 1 wicket down!
If Aus take 2 or more wickets with the new ball then England will not post a competitive score!
If the wicket gets a little quicker (as is expected) then that could help when England bowl? Plus if the wicket continues to take spin, then that has to help England especially as we do have Mo plus 2 "part time" spinners who can take wickets. If this happens then so much pressure will be on the likes of Warner and Smith!!
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I suspect Ali will be fine at 6 or 8! He seems to do a decent job most of the time.
Interested to see when there will be more news on Stokes? There surely has to be some soon! When do the Police need to decide whether they are charging him or not?
The fact he released a video last night wishing the boys good luck for the 1st test, rather than the series, suggests he's just sorting out his packing....
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The pitch taking spin is surely due to it being damp, shouldn’t continue to rag like that?
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The pitch taking spin is surely due to it being damp, shouldn’t continue to rag like that?
I think it will continue to turn , as i said , ball is exploding through the top already . It will harden /quicken up but still turn . Also there is perhaps a bit more texture in this gabba pitch then usual which should aid spin too.
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England felt YJB was much better than Ali at batting with the tail.
Which is daft as he is also better batting with the top order. You can't have your second best bat at seven.
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The new ball is key! It's just been taken so Ali and Malan need to get through the first 20-30 overs with no more than 1 wicket down!
If Aus take 2 or more wickets with the new ball then England will not post a competitive score!
If the wicket gets a little quicker (as is expected) then that could help when England bowl? Plus if the wicket continues to take spin, then that has to help England especially as we do have Mo plus 2 "part time" spinners who can take wickets. If this happens then so much pressure will be on the likes of Warner and Smith!!
The wicket getting quicker will aid eng quicks to a degree but it will also help batsmens scoring rates . If eng can bat on it for most of tomorrow that will deny oz possibly the best batting conditions of the test .
Ali and root/malan will be vital in 4th innings for sure . Re spin in 4th inn lumping pressure on smith and warner....true , but handscomb is the next best player of spin after smith , so a big role for him to play .
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I knew we should have played 2 spinners! :o :o :( :( :( :D :D :D
what is this GABA pitch, never seen anything like it. Slow, turner from day 1. Groundsman will be lynched if we win this.... lol.
Or is it down to an Adele concert as the Courier Mail seemed to make out.
Anyways, very even day i think and an excellent day of proper test cricket.
As ever 2nd new ball crucial.... if Oz gets wickets early i really think Starc could make a mess of our tail..... on the flip side the new ball always comes off the bat quicker etc...
I reckon 350 is a good score on this pitch though??
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Or is it down to an Adele concert as the Courier Mail seemed to make out.
Trust Adele to pitch tamper :D
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Trust Adele to pitch tamper :D
It'll be her rolling in the deep antics, no doubt...
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On the plus side, and i know it's early days, but its great to see stoneman, vince and malan looking the part. I was worried and still am to an extent, but they all look assured and confident. Good to see.
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I don’t really like Adèle but I’m going to buy one of her albums
seriously quite pleased we have not collapsed in a heap
We do need a lot more runs thou. At least another hundred
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Which is daft as he is also better batting with the top order. You can't have your second best bat at seven.
On very recent form he is possibly our best batsman!! But our best 2 batsman in reality are Root and Cook! But they really need to find some form!! :(
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Might the thinking be, with the batting order, that it is better to unsettle one bat than two?
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Probably pretty even after 1st day well done Vince and Stoneman particurlary having to play themselves in again after rain break Lyon bowled well with turn and bounce Cummins bowled a few decent deliveries . The first few overs today the second new ball is key for both teams.
Hopefully Moeen doesnt do anything risky against the new ball.
Bairstow should bat before Ali.
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Without getting carried away, we should perhaps actually be giving those responsible for team selection a little pat on back?
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On very recent form he is possibly our best batsman!! But our best 2 batsman in reality are Root and Cook! But they really need to find some form!! :(
On form, maybe. Root is probably just marginally better long term.
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Without getting carried away, we should perhaps actually be giving those responsible for team selection a little pat on back?
I will give them a pat on the back if Vince continues this form through the series.
One swallow doesn't make a summer as they say.
Granted it was a great 83 and i am not trying to take that away from him.... but you can also say that he has again got himself out when set for a big score - which is what test match no. 3's need to make.
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Forgive me if already asked.
Is there anywhere online to see any highlights if you don't have BT sports?
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@FattusCattus
Hopefully this link will help -
http://sport.bt.com/cricket/free-ashes-highlights-how-to-watch-australia-v-england-best-bits-with-bt-sport-S11364222752132 (http://sport.bt.com/cricket/free-ashes-highlights-how-to-watch-australia-v-england-best-bits-with-bt-sport-S11364222752132)
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Forgive me if already asked.
Is there anywhere online to see any highlights if you don't have BT sports?
@FattusCattus http://www.crickethighlights2.com/ (http://www.crickethighlights2.com/)
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Starc off with a grazed knee 😂
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Malan has one of the best cover drives at the moment, what a change in him from the summer series he olayed in, looks like a class player at the moment, hope that’s not the comment of death for him.
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Lyon's bowling some absolute peaches
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Lyon's bowling some absolute peaches
Sure is, big turn and bounce for a day 2 pitch. Hope Ali has his spinning fingers ready for this evening or tomorrow.
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Lyon's bowling some absolute peaches
Like Swann is saying though it’s all very pretty but not hitting the stumps
It looks good and is economical but it’s not doing what Australia need.....
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Malan half century.
That's all three of the "questionable batsman" have made a score now...
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Like Swann is saying though it’s all very pretty but not hitting the stumps
It looks good and is economical but it’s not doing what Australia need.....
It's amazing how someone who quit the Ashes (and cricket) in the middle of the series can't keep his pie-hole shut about other peoples' performances.
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Pretty hard when you being employed as a pundit
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Malan half century.
That's all three of the "questionable batsman" have made a score now...
What does it say about the England selection board? Things that make you go hmmm...
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Bancroft is clearly hard as coffin nails, sheesh. Should be changing that Shrey though, massive dent in the grille.
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...go on then. Anyone know why they call Lyon Gary?
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...go on then. Anyone know why they call Lyon Gary?
Gary Lyon is an aussie rules player or something like that
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England newbies - Vince, Malan, and Stoneman, are making their mark in the Ashes. Root should be a happy man. In hindsight would Root still want Stokes back in the squad? All three newbies are performing well.
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It's amazing how someone who quit the Ashes (and cricket) in the middle of the series can't keep his pie-hole shut about other peoples' performances.
It's more like jealousy. Some of the older players are unable to digest the fact that newbies have managed to make Aussies work for their wickets.
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England newbies - Vince, Malan, and Stoneman, are making their mark in the Ashes. Root should be a happy man. In hindsight would Root still want Stokes back in the squad? All three newbies are performing well.
100% yes. Stokes in for Ball and suddenly this team looks complete. (So far anyway)
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Malan's got a majestic pull shot
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100% yes. Stokes in for Ball and suddenly this team looks complete. (So far anyway)
If Ball scores a half century? I guess Stokes can take a little bit of rest then ...
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@rickjames !!!
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Malan's got a majestic pull shot
Famous last words!
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That must be about the first ball Lyon has bowl d hats hitting!
Come on Woakesy
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@Seniorplayer will have loved that
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3 wickets for 4 runs!!!
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I bet Swann is no longer yammering about Lyons’ performance.
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300+ would be a good first innings total.
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If Ball scores a half century? I guess Stokes can take a little bit of rest then ...
I’d say cheers for your effort Jake but I’ll take Stokes any day.
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Another one bites the dust ...
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Some irresponsible shots from players that should be knuckling down until lunch
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How come Bairstow still has no sponsor? Playing with plain gear.
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NB in the wings, expect he will have labels by T2
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NB in the wings, expect he will have labels by T2
Swap snickered for unstickered with Stokes when he arrives?
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I’d say cheers for your effort Jake but I’ll take Stokes any day.
Are you sure? He just whacked Lyon for 13 runs in a single over :D
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Some irresponsible shots from players that should be knuckling down until lunch
@Seniorplayer marking out the long run after that shot from Woakes!
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Woakes would be Collecting the teams subs after that shower of (No Swearing Please) of a shot
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I thought Woakes got a pretty good ball to be honest. Done in the flight. A pretty clever ball to someone on 0, as it looked like a nice juicy half volley
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well i reckon 302 is at least 50 under par. England have given up the opportunity to use the best batting conditions for the test.
Oz bowled poorly at times but never really lost the plot (few too many short balls to the tail....could have got them out for 290). Stoneman , Vince and Malan all looked really good but the mode of dismissal for Vince and Malan has cost eng crucial runs -they really could have /should have got 400 from the position they were in .
Im tempted to say oz slightly ahead now , but we might have a few batting brain farts ourselves , so I'll call it even atm.
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England with full advantage here.
Aussies will be struggling.
Pitch suiting Eng.
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England with full advantage here.
Aussies will be struggling.
Pitch suiting Eng.
Whaaaat ?
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Broad has started like he's found the fountain of youth .
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Are these cricketers tested for performance enhancement drugs? Steroids?
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Khawaja is gone. TBH he is missing out on a good chance to establish himself at the top.
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How come Bairstow still has no sponsor? Playing with plain gear.
Taped over the addidas logo on his keeping gloves too.
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Taped over the addidas logo on his keeping gloves too.
Yep. Noticed it just now ..
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Are these cricketers tested for performance enhancement drugs? Steroids?
Why??
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Whaaaat ?
59 for 3 now ;)
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59 for 3 now ;)
Dont see how the pitch is suiting eng though.... more just good bowling (bancroft /handscomb ), poor batting (khawaja), brain fart (warner).
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Aussies worst nightmare : 4/76 and who else comes to the crease ? None other than shaun bloody fuckin fuckin fuckin fuckin fuckin fuckin Marsh . Fuckin fuckin .
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Aussies worst nightmare : 4/76 and who else comes to the crease ? None other than shaun bloody fuckin fuckin fuckin fuckin fuckin fuckin Marsh . Fuckin fuckin .
What ? I thought that would be a whole bunch of 'no swearing please' .
Oh well , slipped one through eh !?
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Dont see how the pitch is suiting eng though.... more just good bowling (bancroft /handscomb ), poor batting (khawaja), brain fart (warner).
Aussies love fast pitches while this one is gripping.
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What ? I thought that would be a whole bunch of 'no swearing please' .
Oh well , slipped one through eh !?
Typical Aussie - full of nonsense before the series, now mouth like a gutter because you aren't winning. Your frustration at Handscombs failure shouldnt mean you pollute the forum. Get some integrity
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Why??
Because the older ones keep performing!
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Because the older ones keep performing!
Cod Liver Oil
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Typical Aussie - full of nonsense before the series, now mouth like a gutter because you aren't winning. Your frustration at Handscombs failure shouldnt mean you pollute the forum. Get some integrity
Not frustrated by handscombs failure , he'll score plenty , frustrated by having to endure marsh in the side .
Re 'polluting the forum' i assumed it would have been auto censored to 'no swearing please' and all anyone would have seen was that . It was actually a an attempt to show frustration in a light hearted way theat would allow for some 'taking the mickey' out of my frustrated plight . But apparently i have no integrity because a forum feature that usually would censor the b word for a child born out of wedlock suddenly lets through a whole bunch of f words ? I mean geez , the sentence was so nonsensical it couldn't have been anything but light hearted .
Get off your high horse or learn to take a joke /effort in self deprecation better .
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Not frustrated by handscombs failure , he'll score plenty , frustrated by having to endure marsh in the side .
Re 'polluting the forum' i assumed it would have been auto censored to 'no swearing please' and all anyone would have seen was that . It was actually a an attempt to show frustration in a light hearted way theat would allow for some 'taking the mickey' out of my frustrated plight . But apparently i have no integrity because a forum feature that usually would censor the b word for a child born out of wedlock suddenly lets through a whole bunch of f words ? I mean geez , the sentence was so nonsensical it couldn't have been anything but light hearted .
Get off your high horse or learn to take a joke /effort in self deprecation better .
Dry your eyes mate
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Dry your eyes mate
So you accuse me of lacking integrity but you want the first word and the last , and you dont want to concede any validity in what i said ? No worrries Mr Integrity , you go for it .
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Shaun Marsh is losing his patience to Ali. He needs to calm down.
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So you accuse me of lacking integrity but you want the first word and the last , and you dont want to concede any validity in what i said ? No worrries Mr Integrity , you go for it .
Haaaaaaaandscoooooooombe. Nah cant see it catching on
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Moeen gets two edges in one over . Neither carry . So far both spinners have been the pick of the bowlers , but neither getting much luck .
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Let's cut our Aussie members a break, a few colourful words out of frustration or jest never hurt anyone.
We have all been there watching our team over the years.England has had two decent days and ahead at the moment that's all really.
The gabba is such a hard place for opposition to get results which is why it's pleasing for us poms so far
It's very early in the series to get too excited. As I've said before, not much between the teams, we expect conditions to favour Australia but this pitch is not quick which has helped.the one thing we expected in this test was a fast track and bounce
At the moment I would say we have a more English wicket to play on which is one helluva surprise.
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Moeen gets two edges in one over . Neither carry . So far both spinners have been the pick of the bowlers , but neither getting much luck .
Marsh-Smith duo is scoring at a decent clip. If they stick around, they will cut down the Eng lead.
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Smith and marsh with a 90 odd run partnership really looked good .
Marsh always seems to make runs when his position is in question or there is no scoreboard /match pressure, but if he can go big here he will have changed my mind aswell as most others too id guess .
Broad relly dropped off pace wise towards the end . England will need the ball to reverse if they dont get wickets in the first hour , otherwise it could be quite comfortable batting until the new ball arrives . Having said that , there's a chance Ali could could cause trouble as he looked great until his last couple overs where he stopped getting the same revs on the ball .
If oz were 4/200 id say its even stevens again , but as it stands eng well in front . But it could have been 'match over' if they'd taken another wicket or two .
Gripping test match cricket , tomorrow should be exciting .
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Smith and marsh with a 90 odd run partnership really looked good .
Marsh always seems to make runs when his position is in question or there is no scoreboard /match pressure, but if he can go big here he will have changed my mind aswell as most others too id guess .
Broad relly dropped off pace wise towards the end . England will need the ball to reverse if they dont get wickets in the first hour , otherwise it could be quite comfortable batting until the new ball arrives . Having said that , there's a chance Ali could could cause trouble as he looked great until his last couple overs where he stopped getting the same revs on the ball .
If oz were 4/200 id say its even stevens again , but as it stands eng well in front . But it could have been 'match over' if they'd taken another wicket or two .
Gripping test match cricket , tomorrow should be exciting .
That doesn't really add up with a lad thats been dropped 7 times in 20 odd tests...
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That doesn't really add up with a lad thats been dropped 7 times in 20 odd tests...
Well, he always eventually gets dropped ( although some of the in-out of the side was due to injury) , but there's been numerous times where everyone is thinking 'we have to drop marsh he's going hopelessly' but he gets a 100 or 90 odd (in a totally pressure free situation ) and then he buys himself a few more tests until people are fedup or his back goes on him etc .
He has done this before when its his first test back in the team and people are questioning his selection . The difference here in this test , so far , is that the match situation is pressurized and tense , thus , if he goes big here he will finally convince a lot of us /change our minds .
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This has been an excellent game of cricket. OK there have been mistakes and bad decision making, but that is all part of the rich tapestry that makes for a good game.
As ever the pitch will play a key part and its going to be fascinating to see how the next 3 days unfold and how that pitch plays in the 3rd/4th innings.
As an Englishman we've seen lots of promise.....and haven't been blown away as some in the media were saying would happen.
Long way to go mind.
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Would Warner have been caught if he was using a bigger bat?
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Would Warner have been caught if he was using a bigger bat?
I'd say yes . That type of 'Cunis' leg side shot of his gets him in trouble on a semi regular basis . If i were england id bowl to his hip all series .
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Pleasing to wake up to 96-4, Aussies have pulled it back well but very much in the balance. Been a cracking test so far in fairness
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In shaun marsh related news, glenn maxwell scored 200 odd n.o against nsw today . Good to see some pressure being applied to the incumbents and good to have our reserve bats in some form if needed .
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Bit frustrating after having them at 76-4, but will take it as it's still very even. If if if we get Smith tomorrow then who knows
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I hate Steve Smith. Remember when he was just a (No Swearing Please) leg spinner?
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Same story as Day 1, pretty even day pretty even test, swung both ways throughout the day.
Again the first hour or two tomorrow will be vital, Aas will the second new ball.
I hate Steve Smith. Remember when he was just a (No Swearing Please) leg spinner?
I think we're going to be waking up checking the cricinfo app and saying 'bloody Smith' plenty of times this series.
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In shaun marsh related news, glenn maxwell scored 200 odd n.o against nsw today . Good to see some pressure being applied to the incumbents and good to have our reserve bats in some form if needed .
Reckon marsh's spot is pretty secure I reckon you might see khawaja or Bancroft getting dropped at some point and maxwell come in to take some strain off Aussie attack and you'll see marsh go up the order.
Test match is very even I would still say if England can take 2 early wickets tomorrow they are in the driving seat there tail is just as long as ours if not longer.
Other thing that might be worth keeping an eye on is Starcs fitness looks to me like he's carrying a knee or ankle injury.
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Just watching the highlights now. Do we have any further info on why Adidas and Bairstow have parted company?
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Being as it's gone on so long, I'm guessing there's some internal matter we're not privvy to - probably linked back to that fabled night in Bristol.
Adidas are very strict on their athlete's public image from what I know, so it wouldn't surprise me if it's linked somehow (although I could be miles off!).
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Being as it's gone on so long, I'm guessing there's some internal matter we're not privvy to - probably linked back to that fabled night in Bristol.
Adidas are very strict on their athlete's public image from what I know, so it wouldn't surprise me if it's linked somehow (although I could be miles off!).
NB pulled Stokes sponsorship for the same reason rite? Now NB is lining up to scoop Bairstow? Wondering if anyone else sees the irony in this ... ;)
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Adidas are very strict on their athlete's public image from what I know, so it wouldn't surprise me if it's linked somehow (although I could be miles off!).
Don't believe that for a minute, they sponsored that bellend KP for years ;)
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Reckon marsh's spot is pretty secure I reckon you might see khawaja or Bancroft getting dropped at some point and maxwell come in to take some strain off Aussie attack and you'll see marsh go up the order.
Test match is very even I would still say if England can take 2 early wickets tomorrow they are in the driving seat there tail is just as long as ours if not longer.
Other thing that might be worth keeping an eye on is Starcs fitness looks to me like he's carrying a knee or ankle injury.
If khawaja doesn't stop plodding his front pad out to spin he'll get dropped by the 3rd test i reckon . He just needs to reassure people with one good dig and he'll be safe though .
I hope the selectors stick with bancroft , no point selecting a young debutant and having zero patience with him .
Marsh most likely will be safe even if he doesnt go on with it tomorrow.
I would like maxwell in the team but it will be hard to find room for him unless khawaja has a few horrendous innings . Also , you cant really look at maxwells usefulness with his bowling too much -smith really doesnt rate him and is reluctant to bowl him .
In an ideal world id have the same top 5 with maxxie in for marsh . But in an ideal ideal world id have steve smith along with 5 of his clones batting in the top 6 . ;)
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Reckon marsh's spot is pretty secure I reckon you might see khawaja or Bancroft getting dropped at some point and maxwell come in to take some strain off Aussie attack and you'll see marsh go up the order.
Test match is very even I would still say if England can take 2 early wickets tomorrow they are in the driving seat there tail is just as long as ours if not longer.
Other thing that might be worth keeping an eye on is Starcs fitness looks to me like he's carrying a knee or ankle injury.
Re starcs knee...he collided with another fielder ( marsh maybe , cant remember ) while they were both trying to cut off a boundary . The other fielders shoe spiked starc in the knee and starc pants were ripped and bloodied at the knee . Unless there was some knee joint twisting etc its probably just a bit of a cut/gash etc .
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Re starcs knee...he collided with another fielder ( marsh maybe , cant remember ) while they were both trying to cut off a boundary . The other fielders shoe spiked starc in the knee and starc pants were ripped and bloodied at the knee . Unless there was some knee joint twisting etc its probably just a bit of a cut/gash etc .
Yeah I saw that collision but thats not it. Noticed it yet 3 or 4th over into the test seems like left ankle to me. Seemed to be having trouble today aswell which probably explains the drop in pace, he also doesn't seem to be hitting the cricket very hard either that might be the softness of the pitch.
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Yeah I saw that collision but thats not it. Noticed it yet 3 or 4th over into the test seems like left ankle to me. Seemed to be having trouble today aswell which probably explains the drop in pace, he also doesn't seem to be hitting the cricket very hard either that might be the softness of the pitch.
Geez i hope you're wrong .
His pace was down a bit but he still hit 148kmph a few times which is pretty decent .
If his left ankle is a problem that would explain him having less explosiveness through the crease after landing on his back foot. But it could be a runup/crease/grip thing too . He often looks well out of sorts rhythm wise then all of a sudden those giraffe legs get in sync and whaaam ! Here's hoping anyway .
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Play only ended less than 3hrs ago and already im getting impatient wanting day 3 to start . ;)
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On the abc commentary they were explaining he couldnt get his usual purchase with his front foot. It was sliding an inch or two and that was effecting his rythem. Hence his confidence wasnt there and his pace suffered. Pretty sure this was before the incident too.
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Reckon marsh's spot is pretty secure I reckon you might see khawaja or Bancroft getting dropped at some point and maxwell come in to take some strain off Aussie attack and you'll see marsh go up the order.
Test match is very even I would still say if England can take 2 early wickets tomorrow they are in the driving seat there tail is just as long as ours if not longer.
Other thing that might be worth keeping an eye on is Starcs fitness looks to me like he's carrying a knee or ankle injury.
I don't see either teams tail being that long. England in theory only have Anderson and Ball who are genuine tail enders and both have showed previously that they can bat and we have a guy at 8 with 9 first class centuries.
They've got Strac at 8 with 9 test match fifties and Cummins at 9 who averages 26 in FC cricket. I don't see the Aus tail getting blown away often as we haven't got Starc or Cummins type bowler to rip through them.
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I don't see either teams tail being that long. England in theory only have Anderson and Ball who are genuine tail enders and both have showed previously that they can bat and we have a guy at 8 with 9 first class centuries.
They've got Strac at 8 with 9 test match fifties and Cummins at 9 who averages 26 in FC cricket. I don't see the Aus tail getting blown away often as we haven't got Starc or Cummins type bowler to rip through them.
You could say the same for broad and Woakes though they both have different milestones to their game and I disagree any one of the England bowlers can get them out. Also tailenders get there runs chancing their arm not by playing a constructed innings and this whole test match has shown the ones that have taken their time and waited for the ball has benefitted most. Looks very hard to score unless it's a junk ball. Pitch is actually playing more like a British wicket up north than an Aussie wicket.
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so some interesting articles praising root's captaincy... with a mention of placing sweepers early in the innings to frustrate warner... and to get moeen on as early as the 9th over to work over Khawaja
whats the general view here in the forum? root captained it well thus far?
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I think so, he's obviously gone through it with the staff and devised plans for certain players
Also look at this for a field setting, hahahaha https://twitter.com/btsportcricket/status/933962404173672448
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I think so, he's obviously gone through it with the staff and devised plans for certain players
Also look at this for a field setting, hahahaha https://twitter.com/btsportcricket/status/933962404173672448
oh my word! hahah. that's insane!
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Love that-between the legs that's out!
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Great Test match so far, a game of chess!!! Great tactics deployed by the young England captain and similarly countered by the young Australia captain and his teammate Marsh.
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I thought Woakes got a pretty good ball to be honest. Done in the flight. A pretty clever ball to someone on 0, as it looked like a nice juicy half volley
It was a terrible shot just come in and try's to drive against the spin schoolboy cricket should have hung around with Bairstow rather than expose Englands tail and I am not going to mention his bowling just let's say it can only improve.
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Can we have a Woakes amnesty please?
It is SOO boring now.
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Can we have a Woakes amnesty please?
It is SOO boring now.
You mean
When the Woakes fan club on here stop bigging him up
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If you repeat the same (No Swearing Please) enough times you just make yourself look a tit, it doesn't make said (No Swearing Please) true...
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Anyone else concerned that Marsh and Smith are going to go big,and I mean big big?!
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Yes Golders . smith gets runs, it seems all the time. Marsh we could have out I think and Paine has not got runs behind him at this level for a while.
I think for us to draw or win this match we need a first innings lead, that means getting Smith before he gets a ton, then we have to bat well again.
It's an interesting match and pretty even which is about right as the teams are similar.
If we knock a couple over early big advantage for us-we need things in our favour to win or draw.
Lyon bowled really well this guy is underrated....probably by a lot of English fans.
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Lyon has great control and gets better and better,plus you can see he's super confident.But does he lack a decent arm ball,as Graeme Swann was suggesting on commentary?! That really would surprise me as any half decent offie,even at club level,has an arm ball.
I also do worry about our batting when these pitches will inevitably quicken up.
Finally,Root's dismissal reminded me of when he got castled by that quick Yorker by Chris Morris at Trent Bridge.
In a nutshell, I'm a worried English fan!!
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No idea, but tonight aka day 3 is at 23:57
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Lyon has great control and gets better and better,plus you can see he's super confident.But does he lack a decent arm ball,as Graeme Swann was suggesting on commentary?! That really would surprise me as any half decent offie,even at club level,has an arm ball.
I also do worry about our batting when these pitches will inevitably quicken up.
Finally,Root's dismissal reminded me of when he got castled by that quick Yorker by Chris Morris at Trent Bridge.
In a nutshell, I'm a worried English fan!!
Root does not play pace as well as some others.if there is a part of his game that has a weakness that's it, he's superb against spin and pace usually but Australia is different there is bounce we are not used to. So many batsmen have come unstuck over the years. As Buzz mentioned ages ago, you need a top class back foot game, Stoneman looks ok, Malan looks good and Vince ok. but this is not a quick track we are playing on.
Root also had a poor tour last time round and the Aussies will target him.
Look at our team, it's bloomin obvious we are a batsman short. Without Stokes that's how it will be as England cannot afford to weaken the bowling.
This is the reason I read some posts on here and wonder if I've gone mad. Our tail is Broad,Anderson,Ball and there's a chance JB could get left high and dry.
We need Woakes at 8 more than ever before. I just cannot see myself how he is not vital to the team. If Stokes plays he does the seamers job and is world class at 6, Woakes could still play as you are not weakening the batting or the bowling by leaving out Ball for example.If Stokes does not play number 8 has to make a contribution with the bat.The best bet for that is Woakes, and he's a good bowler who has more pace than he had when he first played, and is a gun fielder.
That's how I see it it anyway, it's all about opinions and we all got them! :)
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Thanks for that Mr Marsh, come on England.
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Get in there, come on!
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Broad you beauty!!!!! That was the breakthrough we needed with the new ball just 14 overs away.
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Stuart Broad!
Now let's hope England don't let up now.
Attack the stumps, make the batsman play and bowl them out!
This is still on a knife edge
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Michael Clarke and KP: amazing cricketers , but boy are they excruciatingly bad in the commentary box!
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Bowling Jimmy and what a catch from YJB can we get a lead, come on England
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That is an absolute beauty from Anderson
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Broady you beauty!
I didn't plan on going to sleep tonight anyway...
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Starc gone now as well great new ball bowling from England.
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Perfect comeback from Broady
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anderson injured !!!!!!!
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Cmon !!!!
Nice one from Ali
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Yeah very good bowling Mo
One more cmon lads!
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Gonna be a big day for Cook, needs to bat today out, once they get in
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Smithy, captain courageous!!!
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Smith! What an innings that was
Cmon boys, bat today out without losing a wicket, time to make history
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England fielded like a team possessed and stopped a lot of runs . Some of the captaincy was imaginative and inspired, drying smiths runs for ages at a time . But smith found a way . I think thats tge best innings ive ever seen from him .
Broad bowling cutters and varying pace was very intelligent bowling . Anderson was very good too . Woakes was poor but got better towards the end . Ball looked very poor indeed . If hes going to bowl like that then root may as well bowl more overs and get another bat in at 6 .
What about cummins huh ? Very good disipline and concentration .
I though 350 was par for 1st innings and eng really robbed themselves of the opportunity to reach 400. Australia though , we needed a lead of at least 50 to say we're in the lead as batting last will be tough . I'd say eng still have a slight edge , but it would be negated if australia get more than 1 wicket this evening.
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Absolute tit
I'm gonna say it, and I know I'll get shot down, but I think cooks eyes have gone
Arrrrrggggghhh
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Cook you muppet , why did you do that ? What a gift wicket . One more and I'd say oz are back on top .
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Starcs on fire!
And root doesn't look too happy, sat there saying in his head 'cook you muppet '
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Starcs pace seems back up again .
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Hazelwood had taken only 3 wickets in the last 5 test matches. Now he opens with Cook's wicket in second innings. Vince has also kicked the bucket. 2 for Hazelwood in the second innings.
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Absolute tit
I'm gonna say it, and I know I'll get shot down, but I think cooks eyes have gone
Arrrrrggggghhh
I saw this post before you added the bit about him losing his eyes , so you must have thought about it for a bit and the impulse/feeling was too strong. Not agreeing or disagreeing but I'm interested in what makes you think that ?
He's only 32 , im 39 and legally blind without glasses but manage to face 80odd mph reasonably ok for an old bugger ....so if his eyes are gone its very young for that to happen .
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England 2/-9 . Oz back on top . Our fair weather crowd is starting to perk up a bit too . Root needs to do a Smith here .
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Root just took a nasty blow on the helmet from starc . He looks ok though . Helmet might not be in the best nick however .
Awesome delivery , really cramped him up . Now that the pitch is quickened up a touch id expect a lot more of this . Root will be in for a real workout here . Good time to lead from the front .
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What am I missing with Ball. Spent all summer leaking runs in ODI’s without ever looking much of a threat. Today’s and yesterday he pretty much did the same, just with a red ball.
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Cook just took a nasty blow on the helmet from starc . He looks ok though . Helmet might not be in the best nick however .
Awesome delivery , really cramped him up . Now that the pitch is quickened up a touch id expect a lot more of this . Root will be in for a real workout here . Good time to lead from the front .
Did Cook also get a nasty one from Starc? I saw Root get a bouncer from Starc which rattled his helmet. He seems to have replaced the helmet though.
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I saw this post before you added the bit about him losing his eyes , so you must have thought about it for a bit and the impulse/feeling was too strong. Not agreeing or disagreeing but I'm interested in what makes you think that ?
He's only 32 , im 39 and legally blind without glasses but manage to face 80odd mph reasonably ok for an old bugger ....so if his eyes are gone its very young for that to happen .
I've got dodgy eyes too, long story
I think, at this level, the eyes have to be perfect when your used to picking the ball up at this pace
And Cooks a very good player of pace
I've noticed with his fielding too, he's been late on catches
I really really hope I'm wrong as I've loved watching him bat, and we need a world class opener
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Did Cook also get a nasty one from Starc? I saw Root get a bouncer from Starc which rattled his helmet. He seems to have replaced the helmet though.
(https://i.imgur.com/o5CaPiX.gif)
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Did Cook also get a nasty one from Starc? I saw Root get a bouncer from Starc which rattled his helmet. He seems to have replaced the helmet though.
My bad , i meant root .
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I've got dodgy eyes too, long story
I think, at this level, the eyes have to be perfect when your used to picking the ball up at this pace
And Cooks a very good player of pace
I've noticed with his fielding too, he's been late on catches
I really really hope I'm wrong as I've loved watching him bat, and we need a world class opener
Cool , I'll watch him in the slips a bit closer, and try to notice what youve seen .
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Cummins looks good atm . He's given stoneman the hurry up and hit him on the chest a couple times . Stoneman looks so calm though , its like his default batting temprament is set to 'valium' mode .
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Awesome day of cricket . Really intense . I feel like harnessing my inner Richie Benaud : " marvellous . Super stuff that ".
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And we are constantly being told test cricket is dying??
What a start to a series this has been
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And we are constantly being told test cricket is dying??
What a start to a series this has been
Don't listen to that "test cricket" dying story. It is a recurring topic for someone to stir up some controversy.
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And we are constantly being told test cricket is dying??
What a start to a series this has been
Yeah , imagine if this was a 4 day test...it'd be ruined !
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And we are constantly being told test cricket is dying??
What a start to a series this has been
Ashes isn’t the problem though, as has been banded about recently, India make the same cash from a T20 as a test.
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Yeah , imagine if this was a 4 day test...it'd be ruined !
4 day tests are what will ruin test cricket!
On today.... what happened to Anderson I am hearing various weird things like he just stopped bowling but didn't actually go off for treatment?
Think we have really missed a massive opportunity here and i hope we don't regret it. As good as Smith batted we could have left him stranded if we had got Cummins out. Knocking the Aussie tail over was a major problem last tour and looks like it could be again.
On a side note... nothing like a bit of Geordie North East grit from Stoneman... he sounds so calm its ridiculous.
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Ashes isn’t the problem though, as has been banded about recently, India make the same cash from a T20 as a test.
Money is a different issue altogether. BBL will start soon and you will notice a dip in Ashes viewership. It happens everywhere.
T20 is more of an entertainment rather than a real sport.
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(https://i.imgur.com/o5CaPiX.gif)
Is Cook trying to make a comeback into the ODI squad? What really was the need to play that pull shot?
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Amazing knock from smith, that partnership with cummings is probably the game changer. Unless root matches smith's knock, don't see england winning this.
Interesting stat: first time england have played an english born 11 since 2003
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Watched highlights of maxwells 278 vs nsw ( attack included bollinger, copeland , abbott , henriques, okeefe ) . He needs a place in the test side pronto .
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Well done to Root battling through to the close after that blow to the helmet and that hostile spell well done to Starc for running up the wicket to check he was okay.
Not impressed with Pontings comments regarding the incident.
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Just when on Earth will we be able to knock tails over?
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Well done to Root battling through to the close after that blow to the helmet and that hostile spell well done to Starc for running up the wicket to check he was okay.
Not impressed with Pontings comments regarding the incident.
What did ponting say ? ( i havent heard but i think i could hazard a guess ;))
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(https://i.imgur.com/o5CaPiX.gif)
*sigh* Cook.
I think we are seeing beginning of the end here for Cook. This maybe his last international tour. :(
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Not impressed with Pontings comments regarding the incident.
Ponting is a butthole. On more than one occasion, he has proven himself to be the permanent resident of the butt-crack region of mankind! D-bag!
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Hi Guys,
Just wondered what's the bet/cheapest way to watch bt sport from my laptop, on my tv? I'ma bit of a technophobe i'm afraid.
Poor shot from Cook- but he proved the critics wrong many times before, and I hope he does so again. However, his stats have been on the wane for a while now.
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@Seniorplayer or @InternalTraining
What did Ponting actually say?
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Hi Guys,
Just wondered what's the bet/cheapest way to watch bt sport from my laptop, on my tv? I'ma bit of a technophobe i'm afraid.
Poor shot from Cook- but he proved the critics wrong many times before, and I hope he does so again. However, his stats have been on the wane for a while now.
@golders try
http://cricfree.sc/bt-sport-1-live-stream-ing (http://cricfree.sc/bt-sport-1-live-stream-ing)
http://cricfree.sc/watch/live/australia-vs-england-live-streaming (http://cricfree.sc/watch/live/australia-vs-england-live-streaming)
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I meant that I have the bt sport app and can watch on my laptop- do I use an HDMI cable to connect it to TV?
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I meant that I have the bt sport app and can watch on my laptop- do I use an HDMI cable to connect it to TV?
Yes.
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*sigh* Cook.
I think we are seeing beginning of the end here for Cook. This maybe his last international tour. :(
Maybe not. I think it was a good idea to go for a pull shot instead of bucking to a bouncer from Hazelwood. 4 more tests left. Plenty of time for Cook to redeem himself.
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Maybe not. I think it was a good idea to go for a pull shot instead of bucking to a bouncer from Hazelwood. 4 more tests left. Plenty of time for Cook to redeem himself.
Indeed there is, he hasn't been so prolific in the last 12 months but he's still the man we need. He's tough too, he won't buckle.
To be fair the ball he got in the 1st innings was a beauty for any one not settled in.
Good bowlers will get good batsmen out, we have been far too reliant on Cook and Root, thankfully Bairstow has shown his class in the last year.
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Watched highlights of maxwells 278 vs nsw ( attack included bollinger, copeland , abbott , henriques, okeefe ) . He needs a place in the test side pronto .
Marsh has got his place locked for the next test at least. By all means, the hammer is likely to fall on Khawaja if he doesn't perform in second innings or second test match.
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Stoneman out to Lyon . Big wicket . I'm so impressed by Stonemans demeanor at the crease....last over he was hit in the armpit by cummins and didnt blink , wince , barely did anything . He just oozes test match temperament.
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We've got to look to score and not just survive,especially against Lyon. Put the guy under some pressure!(easier said than done)
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Lyon just got mylan with a peach England struggling a little now
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Lyon is on fire to the lefties . Great delivery /sharp slips catch to get rid of Malan . Lyon could easily get 5for here . With Ali , another leftie at the crease , Lyon is looking good, most of the bats are doing a khawaja by front foot plodding in defense . Root is varying it up , going forward and back etc....he's looking comfortable against the spin.
Btw...eng 4/74 ....basically where oz were when smith and marsh started their partnership.
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Lyon is on fire to the lefties . Great delivery /sharp slips catch to get rid of Malan . Lyon could easily get 5for here . With Ali , another leftie at the crease , Lyon is looking good, most of the bats are doing a khawaja by front foot plodding in defense . Root is varying it up , going forward and back etc....he's looking comfortable against the spin.
Btw...eng 4/74 ....basically where oz were when smith and marsh started their partnership.
Really need the same kind of partnership between these two to match Smith and Marsh. Must sat at the moment Smith & Lyon are looking like the 2 players England need to get solid plans against for this series. Smith was world class yesterday and Root starting to show his class in 2nd innings
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Root gets his 50 , looking great , then next ball out lbw ! Wow , thats massive ....just as root and ali were getting a partnership going and making scoring look a bit easier .
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Really need the same kind of partnership between these two to match Smith and Marsh. Must sat at the moment Smith & Lyon are looking like the 2 players England need to get solid plans against for this series. Smith was world class yesterday and Root starting to show his class in 2nd innings
Wishful thinking then
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Watching bairstow with his blank bat made me think .... Blank Bats should sponsor him !
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Lunch , eng effectively 5/93 .
They're still in this . Ali is scoring quickly and bairstow likely to do the same . If they spend time at the crease their lead will tick along at a fair rate . They really need to score at a good rate to lift the scoreboard pressure otherwise you just feel so far away for so long ....and it keeps oz feeling like they have a sniff every ball .
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First 2 balls after lunch , lyon rips the ball past alis outside edge . Then mo tonks lyon over midwicket and sweeps for 2 4s . Will be a good battle between these 2 , especially since ali looks in good nick and pretty settled now .
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Thats gotta hurt. Aussies need to wrap this up quick.
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Come on Woakes, do it for Senior!
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Great battle between mo and garry . Sharp work by paine too . 6/158....eng need at least 70 more (200 lead) to be in with a chance.
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Oh oh.....steve smith is bowling . ;)
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Smith looking good with the ball , he actually hasnt bowled much tripe yet .
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Woakes gone to starc short stuff . Never long until something happens in this test .
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Starc to Broad ....short pitched barrage ahead . I really like the look of the new adidas bat labels .
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Starc gets bairstow with short ball , the last batsman gone and with him probably the test match too . Broad needs to try to smash their way to a 200 lead . Unlikely.
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Bairstow's shot was just downright stupid. Braindead
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YJB's dismissal was unbelievably dumb
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Broad didnt last long there ! Pommy tail is looking fragile unless woakes makes some big scores in partnership with a recognized batsman.
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Cummins gets Ball with a short ball. Even though this wicket has been slow oz bowlers have got a lot of wickets with short balls . It will only continue on quicker decks .
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I wish we could get rid of tails like that. Ah.
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170 is the target. Definitely looks within the reach of Aus. Lets see if England can surprise Aus.
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I wish we could get rid of tails like that. Ah.
Thats what a little bit of extra pace does !
When Starc took two hat tricks the other week everyone rubbished it as only being wickets against the tail . But its a skill and its one of those things that could decide the series too .
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170 is the target. Definitely looks within the reach of Aus. Lets see if England can surprise Aus.
About 30 short of the minimum and 80 short of ideal . But eng are still in this . A couple early wickets and its game on .
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Cummins gets Ball with a short ball. Even though this wicket has been slow oz bowlers have got a lot of wickets with short balls . It will only continue on quicker decks .
Of the 20 english wickets this match , 8 batsmen dismissed by short balls .
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Of the 20 english wickets this match , 8 batsmen dismissed by short balls .
And Moeen wasn't one of them!
#EveryCloud
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(https://i.imgur.com/zLKjo1g.gif)
What a dick
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(https://i.imgur.com/zLKjo1g.gif)
What a dick
Actually , i think it was the upper thigh . :D
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This is hillarious!
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21560783/twitter-reacts-moeen-close-stumping (http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21560783/twitter-reacts-moeen-close-stumping)
That is just poop luck! These guys were battling away so well...
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This is hillarious!
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21560783/twitter-reacts-moeen-close-stumping[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21560783/twitter-reacts-moeen-close-stumping[/url])
That is just poop luck! These guys were battling away so well...
He was unlucky to be judged out. I would have given benefit of doubt to the batsman and let him continue.
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Actually , i think it was the upper thigh . :D
Aussies are playing a clever game here. They waited out to see Anderson and Broad finish the first spell. Now they are scoring quite freely in Woakes & Moeen's spell.
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Aussies are playing a clever game here. They waited out to see Anderson and Broad finish the first spell. Now they are scoring quite freely in Woakes & Moeen's spell.
Perhaps moeens finger injury isn't helping him this innings but Ball and Woakes are looking very , very ordinary a.t.m .
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50 for Bancroft . Very well batted ! Looks tidy .
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Not sure if anyone has posted this previously, but David Warner is using a new Forma helmet, first Aussie I think to wear one for the country
(https://s8.postimg.org/iug3yl0a9/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/iug3yl0a9/)
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Not sure if anyone has posted this previously, but David Warner is using a new Forma helmet, first Aussie I think to wear one for the country
(https://s8.postimg.org/iug3yl0a9/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/iug3yl0a9/)
Doubt that. It could be an Albion helmet.
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Root has to try to keep the run rate down to exert some pressure but don't look like he trusts Ball to do that.
This is the danger we thought as he keeps going to Anderson and broad all the time they are racking up the overs. Woakes and ball have not bowled great quite right, and Lyon has spun it much more than Mo has.
Aussie pitches always have been you need to hit them hard to get anything out of them, and the ball does not have much movement off the seam.
However.....we are short on runs, without runs in the bank you can't win test matches.
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Not sure if anyone has posted this previously, but David Warner is using a new Forma helmet, first Aussie I think to wear one for the country
(https://s8.postimg.org/iug3yl0a9/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/iug3yl0a9/)
I just noticed this but wasnt sure what brand . I saw the strange ear guards and the red tape over the branding. Wonder if he used this lid in the 1st innings ?
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Root has to try to keep the run rate down to exert some pressure but don't look like he trusts Ball to do that.
This is the danger we thought as he keeps going to Anderson and broad all the time they are racking up the overs. Woakes and ball have not bowled great quite right, and Lyon has spun it much more than Mo has.
Aussie pitches always have been you need to hit them hard to get anything out of them, and the ball does not have much movement off the seam.
However.....we are short on runs, without runs in the bank you can't win test matches.
Yep , you guys needed 400 in 1st innings (and really should have got it too).
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Doubt that. It could be an Albion helmet.
Its got a funny dial adjuster on the back like a forma ....not sure if any new albions have that .
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It’s a hammering! 170 was never enough
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Just got up and what ?!?!
OK we could / should have put on more in the 1st innings.
After their start in the 1st, Australia should have not have been allowed to get.
The England 2nd innings was more like we could have been expected.
But what has happened in the 4th - no wickets ??
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Its got a funny dial adjuster on the back like a forma ....not sure if any new albions have that .
True it is quite possible. The dial on the back does look like a Forma. I will take back my comment!
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One negative for oz in this test is that only 4 batsmen (+cummins) have made runs or spent much time at the crease . England however have had 6 bats make runs/time at the crease . Englands batsmen should rue the fact that none of them went big , but they should feel confident form wise .
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Well that was pretty poor
England batting was a huge disappointment , cook?again
And our bowling just doesn't look good enough, bowling like clubbies
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Ball and woakes look like bola machines set to back of a length with zero bias/movement .
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Yeah this is what the new Forma lids look like:
(https://s8.postimg.org/65ltevrkx/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/65ltevrkx/)
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Yeah this is what the new Forma lids look like:
(https://s8.postimg.org/65ltevrkx/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/65ltevrkx/)
Thats the one .
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Perhaps moeens finger injury isn't helping him this innings but Ball and Woakes are looking very , very ordinary a.t.m .
Ali spoke to abc radio just now. He reckons his finger ripped open after 15 overs in the 1st innings and badly affected him then , but said it was fine today and that he just bowled "rubbish".
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Bring back Stokes ASAP and
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Bring back Stokes ASAP and
And ?
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And? I was hoping others would chip in on this. putting talent on the side Stokes bring confidence and charisma to this team, his intangibles is missing
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Massive missed opportunity in this test match is all I keep thinking about.
The positions we put ourselves in and then just couldn't capitalise on or did something stupid etc...
When you think about Vince getting run out on 83 when we were 145-2, we had AUS 76-4 and 209-7 in the 1st innings. Remember Smith scored 141* out of AUS 328.
I really think we need Wood. We need some firepower, some x factor rather than just throw it up there on a length. Ball has been useless and Woakes not much better.
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[quote author=six and out link=topic=43023.msg693987#msg693987 date=1511686421
I really think we need Wood. We need some firepower, some x factor rather than just throw it up there on a length. Ball has been useless and Woakes not much better.
[/quote]
Agree with this and would also add that Moeen's bowling was not threatening at all, totally outbowled by Lyon. He needs to up his game.
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Give Overton a go??
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40-50 aren’t gonna win you test matches.
Story of Old where we need to convert a start to make it a big hundred, until someone knuckles down and does so we’re exposing our midddle and lower order without having enough runs on the board.
Totally agree re bowing attack too, we need others to step up and bend their backs too.
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I’ve tried not to say much during the test but now the result is set he’s what I’ve thought so far:
Day 1 was England’s day and although lost too many wickets when set a good and positive day for England
Day 2 other than the collapse and for me not squeezing the Aussies at 70odd-4 I think ge best way to Smith early on is hit off with the odd good sharp bouncer as he gets I’ve so much don’t change he line bouncer over odd will be perfect
Day 3 didn’t bow well enough to tail we should have had a 50 run lead that would have made all ththe difference and I think is where this game was lost
Day 4 didn’t bat well enough, Cook played the right shot for me just seemed to paddle rather than really go for it, vince for a good ball and I think we have found a good opener for Cook in stoneman (finally)
Going forward drop ball (should never have played) and pick Overton
Don’t change the batsmen at this stage
From before the test worrying about the batsmen it’s now the bowlers who are a concern
England have shown enough in this series to make me think we could nick 1-2 tests (Adelaide and mcg/scg) and wouldn’t be surprised with 3-2/2-2 result
Plenty of things to work on but by no means a write off tour!
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alex..... bit early to be on the sauce mate? :D
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Malan in the test side is just a joke.
Will be getting worse as the series goes on.
Tail is way too long
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If /when stokes flys over he would be cleared ....so would hales , so send him too .
Malan seems ok so far .
If no stokes , then sawp ball for wood and get some mongrel into your attack .
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A first test loss, which some of us saw coming is not the end of he world, we have competed for most of the match.
However....there is appearing a story Bairstow is up for assault off the pitch against one of the Aussie players
You can only hope this is not going to be true and it's a storm in a tea cup
My gut tells me this is trouble thou
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A first test loss, which some of us saw coming is not the end of he world, we have competed for most of the match.
However....there is appearing a story Bairstow is up for assault off the pitch against one of the Aussie players
You can only hope this is not going to be true and it's a storm in a tea cup
My gut tells me this is trouble thou
Oh dear! Gingers and their aggression issues.
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A first test loss, which some of us saw coming is not the end of he world, we have competed for most of the match.
However....there is appearing a story Bairstow is up for assault off the pitch against one of the Aussie players
You can only hope this is not going to be true and it's a storm in a tea cup
My gut tells me this is trouble thou
Wow . I hope this is false , I'm so sick of aussies and poms missing ashes matches because they hit someone .
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If the bairstow story is true his bat will stay blank for a while longer .
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alex..... bit early to be on the sauce mate? :D
Not after waking up to the score (also blind optimism is setting in)
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If the bairstow story is true his bat will stay blank for a while longer .
I do hope it's not true or overblown. We have had enough already with Stokes.
You can see now in this match why Stokes is so Important to us, our tail is too long and he is world class.
There's no news yet either despite rumours charges will be dropped. So far no news means he is not on the tour at all.
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https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/england-wicketkeeper-jonny-bairstow-headbutted-11589833.amp (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/england-wicketkeeper-jonny-bairstow-headbutted-11589833.amp)
Hope Bancroft was wearing his lid if this is true!
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This is trouble for England, Bairstow I think got a warning as he was out with Stokes and Hales that night and the ECB deceided against any curfew on this tour.
If this turns out to be an assault he could well be sent home.
There's plenty on here who I read think the ECB are hopeless, you got to ask yourself thou sometimes what can they do in these situations.
It's lose lose for them, dicipline a player and weaken the side, do nothing and appear weak and ineffective.
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https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/england-wicketkeeper-jonny-bairstow-headbutted-11589833.amp (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/england-wicketkeeper-jonny-bairstow-headbutted-11589833.amp)
Hope Bancroft was wearing his lid if this is true!
If this is true... you have to ask why it is coming out now. It happened 3 weeks ago.
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If it happened then the precedent is miss 3 tests ala warner ? :D
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This is trouble for England, Bairstow I think got a warning as he was out with Stokes and Hales that night and the ECB deceided against any curfew on this tour.
If this turns out to be an assault he could well be sent home.
There's plenty on here who I read think the ECB are hopeless, you got to ask yourself thou sometimes what can they do in these situations.
It's lose lose for them, dicipline a player and weaken the side, do nothing and appear weak and ineffective.
As if the ECB care about appearing weak and ineffective. The Ashes are far more inportant than "appearing" to care about any standards they/we expect their players should uphold. Winning is all that matters.
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If it happened then the precedent is miss 3 tests ala warner ? :D
It's started already.... Cricket Australia article on it.... no one actually know's if it's happened or not but apparently Bancroft didn't provoke or retaliate.... so Bairstow just walked up to him and give him a headbutt... FFS please!!
http://www.cricket.com.au/news/jonny-bairstow-cameron-bancroft-headbutt-perth-bar-ben-stokes-culture-australia-england-ashes/2017-11-26 (http://www.cricket.com.au/news/jonny-bairstow-cameron-bancroft-headbutt-perth-bar-ben-stokes-culture-australia-england-ashes/2017-11-26)
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Reasons I am v concerned that we (Eng) will get a hammering ie: Aus 4/5 Eng nil point
1.No Stokes
2. Back-up bowlers are dross
3. Lack of pace/variety in our bowling attack.
4. Pitches will be fast and bouncy :suit home side.
4. Aussie bowlers too quick-will blow away tail.
5. Cook having a nightmare series.
6. Batters not converting starts.
7. Ali wacked out of attack.
8. Steve Smith the immovable object.
9. Bairstow banish-ed from tour *
All in all,feeling very positive about the rest of the tour!!
*Subject to the whole thing being dismissed as utter drivel
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Reasons I am v concerned that we (Eng) will get a hammering ie: Aus 4/5 Eng nil point
1.No Stokes
2. Back-up bowlers are dross
3. Lack of pace/variety in our bowling attack.
4. Pitches will be fast and bouncy :suit home side.
4. Aussie bowlers too quick-will blow away tail.
5. Cook having a nightmare series.
6. Batters not converting starts.
7. Ali wacked out of attack.
8. Steve Smith the immovable object.
9. Bairstow banish-ed from tour *
All in all,feeling very positive about the rest of the tour!!
*Subject to the whole thing being dismissed as utter drivel
1 probably , but who knows
2 woakes could come good ; get wood in the side
3 get wood in the side
4a you will probably win / be well suited to Adelaide
4b yep
5 maybe , but dont write off a champion
6 yep , look no further than the worst culprit - root
7 he'll come good , he showed some real good signs in the 1st inn
8 dont know what else can be said about this one
9 maybe but i can't help think something would already have happened if it was going to.
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When Root brings himself on to bowl after 26 overs tells you all you need to know re England's 3rd and 4th seamers bowling on fast track.
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When Root brings himself on to bowl after 26 overs tells you all you need to know re England's 3rd and 4th seamers bowling on fast track.
What personnel changes re bowling attack would you make for 2nd test ?
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Wood and interestingly Foakes named in the Lions side to play Queensland on Monday. It's a 3 day game so ends Wednesday. 2nd test starts Saturday I think so does that rule out Wood?
https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/520934 (https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/520934)
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Get the Ginger Ninja on a plane, drop Woakes and replace Balls with Wood.
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What personnel changes re bowling attack would you make for 2nd test ?
If it was possible Stokes and Wood in Woakes and Ball out but as it is not Overton and Wood in and Wood to bowl four over bursts only.
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I'm not sure why everyone goes on about Wood as the great white hope,he's not even that quick!
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Woakes and ball did not bowl very well in this match hence your point Root had to bowl 20 odd overs and he kept going back to anderson and broad as they are our two best.
Overton I can't see changing much on these wicketS, you need dead accurate or pace or spin to trouble anyone.
Adelaide may suit us a bit better and we did play well for some of the match.
But we need runs to defend, nothing we can do about Stokes not being there we have to make he most of it.
If we could I think we would play two spinners, but that could mean even more work for our best seamers.
I think myself we are stuck we it, Woakes needs to make a contribution with the bat we cannot lengthen the tail any more.
I suppose....ballance coming in could be an option. Not going to be popular that suggestion I don't think and we would have to drop a bowler.
I still think myself we can get a result on this tour. All is not lost. :)
Wood has pace, on a quick track if he is fit could cause problems, as you say thou it has to be short bursts otherwise he will end up medium pace as well.
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He bloody well is, used in short bursts. It's his lack of height that might nullify his effectiveness.
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I'm not sure why everyone goes on about Wood as the great white hope,he's not even that quick!
I don't know mate late 80s and skiddy is as quick as anything we have (only other would be plunkett but he's been pigeon holed as a limited overs bowler). Woods trouble has been fitness - hopefully he get overs under his belt for the lions and is able to crank it up.
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I'm not sure why everyone goes on about Wood as the great white hope,he's not even that quick!
He is quick enough! Fitness is his problem and in a hard test match that's the problem.
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Whoa fellas! Match is not over yet. Who knows, the England bowlers may pull a rabbit out of the hat tomorrow (today). I am hoping for a tight finish! Vive Le Test Cricket!!!!!!
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Woakes and ball did not bowl very well in this match hence your point Root had to bowl 20 odd overs and he kept going back to anderson and broad as they are our two best.
Overton I can't see changing much on these wicketS, you need dead accurate or pace or spin to trouble anyone.
Adelaide may suit us a bit better and we did play well for some of the match.
But we need runs to defend, nothing we can do about Stokes not being there we have to make he most of it.
If we could I think we would play two spinners, but that could mean even more work for our best seamers.
I think myself we are stuck we it, Woakes needs to make a contribution with the bat we cannot lengthen the tail any more.
I suppose....ballance coming in could be an option. Not going to be popular that suggestion I don't think and we would have to drop a bowler.
I still think myself we can get a result on this tour. All is not lost. :)
Wood has pace, on a quick track if he is fit could cause problems, as you say thou it has to be short bursts otherwise he will end up medium pace as well.
Adelaide may well be our best chance of winning but the last D/N test there vs S.A. the scores were very much like this test, 3 batters got 100's, the Kookaburra pink ball doesn't do as much as the Dukes one.
I really can't believe I am going to say this but if our 4th seamer isn't up to it and the tail is too long then perhaps Ballance has to play at 6.
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Forget Stokes - even if the police action doesn't proceed the ECB should ban him for at least the duration of the Ashes.
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Adelaide may well be our best chance of winning but the last D/N test there vs S.A. the scores were very much like this test, 3 batters got 100's, the Kookaburra pink ball doesn't do as much as the Dukes one.
I really can't believe I am going to say this but if our 4th seamer isn't up to it and the tail is too long then perhaps Ballance has to play at 6.
On the basis of how our third and fourth bowled in this test it wouldn't be a bad move trouble is can England rely on there third seamer to step up if he does not and Ballance does play at six it's going to be tough on Anderson and Broad.
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If this is true... you have to ask why it is coming out now. It happened 3 weeks ago.
Bancroft and Bairstow exchanged words during England's second innings. This incident stirred up the pot and news articles are reported along those lines. This is all puff piece and won't go any further. Stoneman is a newbie but he is more calm, composed and treated Oz bowlers comments/actions with no-response. Bairstow can learn a thing or two from Stoneman.
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A bit of well saved press to disrupt the team...
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Forget Stokes - even if the police action doesn't proceed the ECB should ban him for at least the duration of the Ashes.
For what going out? Ban all of them then... Bored of people making out their the perfect specimen and put no foot wrong.
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For what going out? Ban all of them then... Bored of people making out their the perfect specimen and put no foot wrong.
You think the footage is a good look for young cricketers? Like it or not these players are held to a higher standard than Joe Public and paid accordingly.
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173/0 => This will hurt Root more than England's second innings collapse. Bowling needs to step up and respond. Batting first England did a decent job, but the inability to keep up pressure apart from Broad/Anderson seems to be hurting England the most.
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Frack!
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Bancroft and Bairstow exchanged words during England's second innings. This incident stirred up the pot and news articles are reported along those lines. This is all puff piece and won't go any further. Stoneman is a newbie but he is more calm, composed and treated Oz bowlers comments/actions with no-response. Bairstow can learn a thing or two from Stoneman.
In post match abc radio interview Bayliss was asked if Bairstow headbutted Bancroft , he said "well , you'd have to ask Johnny about that but he did say there was absolutely no malice in it and it was blown way out of proportion " .
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England are still every chance to win at adelaide . Personally, from an aussie perspective, I'd like to see a traditional red ball adelaide pitch and 'stuff the consequences' but that definitely won't (and shouldn't) happen .
People are saying Wood isn't that quick . Well yes and no , but he has mongrel and england need that more than Balls powder puff rubbish -he was bowling 120 odd kmph half trackers at one stage (a lot of us face more difficult bowling then that ! ). Perhaps Wood can not only be used in short bursts but be the guy who tries to bomb out the aussie tail .
I'd keep Woakes in the side because he should be suited to Adelaide and if he bowls well there hecan take some confidence into the rest of the series . Also , you need to shorten the tail as much as possible .
Ali needs his finger to come good and needs a heap of overs under his belt in the nets . When he gets more revs on the ball he can flight it whilst dragging his length back a touch and then he looks really good . Its when he bowls too full that he will be punished on these wickets .
Root was asked if this felt like a 10 wicket loss and he said no because england played really well for the first 3 days although they should have got 400+ in the first innings and should have got oz out for 150-200 in the first innings. Well , to me , thats all the more reason why this should feel exactly like a 10 wicket defeat .
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This English batting lineup doesn't look like it's able to score 300+
If only Root and Cook gets going there is a possibility but if both are out cheaply then 200+ is hard
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This English batting lineup doesn't look like it's able to score 300+
If only Root and Cook gets going there is a possibility but if both are out cheaply then 200+ is hard
This is very accurate, and it's been like this for a good couple of years. In home series and on our pitches we get away with it because our bowlers can bail the batsmen out with movement off the pitches other teams struggle with....
Away from home our bowling can look up and down a bit so we need more runs to cover.
All is not lost however, the Gabba has been a fortress for the Aussies first up that's why the first match is there.
Stokes missing is a huge dent to the team, he has boosted the score from number 6
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For what going out? Ban all of them then... Bored of people making out their the perfect specimen and put no foot wrong.
Who's making out they are perfect? I'm certainly not!
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173/0 => This will hurt Root more than England's second innings collapse. Bowling needs to step up and respond. Batting first England did a decent job, but the inability to keep up pressure apart from Broad/Anderson seems to be hurting England the most.
Agreed .. this is a big worry. Our bowling looked very ineffective. Add that to the fact that Cook looks out of touch and that Root looked all at sea in the first innings against Lyon.... doesn't bode well. I fear that our less capped batsmen will become too negative and will scratch around for 20-30 runs before perishing. The coaches have a lot of work to do!
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Why all the laughing at the Bancroft interview, was it because the media had been played?
The whole thing is very weird.
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Thought the bancroft interview was hilarious. And I thought footballers were dumb. Gosh even smith laughing at his responses
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Why all the laughing at the Bancroft interview, was it because the media had been played?
The whole thing is very weird.
I reckon so. There was obviously nothing behind it and the Aussies have just let it run without confirming/denying anything until the end of the test to unsettle England. If it had been an actual headbutt I'm pretty sure we'd have known about it by now. Barstow meets Bancroft, stumbles and heads touch. Aussies use it to stir things up and let press report a headbutt, then when the games won confirm it was nothing. Everyone's been played.
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I reckon so. There was obviously nothing behind it and the Aussies have just let it run without confirming/denying anything until the end of the test to unsettle England. If it had been an actual headbutt I'm pretty sure we'd have known about it by now. Barstow meets Bancroft, stumbles and heads touch. Aussies use it to stir things up and let press report a headbutt, then when the games won confirm it was nothing. Everyone's been played.
I do wonder if sometimes I takes life too seriously, but to be laughing about potential violence when we live in a culture where the getting drunk and fighting is a serious problem. I don't know, maybe its because a mate of mine got a good kicking on a night out a while back that I'm touchy about the subject.
Still I thought the whole thing being treated as a joke was a bit off, whatever happened.
Subject done for me though - back to the cricket.
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After what happened with Stokes it shouldn't have been made a joke of and Bancroft and Smith were like a couple of schoolkids in the press conference. The Aussie team and the England team should have come out and said it was nothing. The press have obviously reported it as a headbutt and the Aussies haven't done anything to correct them mid-test, but you wouldn't expect them to.
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Aggers was saying on Twitter yesterday that his understanding of the Bancroft v Bairstow incident was "I understand from the camp that Bairstow and Bancroft were having a drink together. Their heads met. They carried on drinking together.". Deffo sounds like a storm in a teacup to me.
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Oh no Aussies having a laugh at a storm in a teacup... How rude.... I understand why no one ever accused you poms of having a sense of humour... Haha
On another note your change bowlers were ordinary in the second innings.
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For the love of God can we get Stokes out there ASAP
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The description of the event sounds very odd, almost like Bairstow causally headbutted Bancroft as some sort of welcome. A lot of ginger aggression in this England team
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The description of the event sounds very odd, almost like Bairstow causally headbutted Bancroft as some sort of welcome. A lot of ginger aggression in this England team
All I can vision is the ginger wildling from Game Of Thrones and some sort of historic ritual where they crack heads together as a welcome!
I'm a huge Ice Hockey fan and see this at the end of games, but to be fair they usually have helmets on!
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Oh no Aussies having a laugh at a storm in a teacup... How rude.... I understand why no one ever accused you poms of having a sense of humour... Haha
On another note your change bowlers were ordinary in the second innings.
I've no problem with having a laugh at something, we'd be doing the same probs if it was the other way round, but its a delicate subject at the minute following Stokes, so should have been cleared up earlier for Bairstows sake and it still hasn't been. Just listening to a journo on the radio about it and people are still calling it a headbutt, which it clearly wasn't.
Agreed on the bowling though, but then everyone i know has never rated Ball, I thought Woakes outside of the UK could struggle and Alib don't think Ali was 100% fit. Although he isn't a top class spinner in my opinion anyway.
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There is a slight difference between a head butt and bashing someone's head in...just saying...
Also, the England follow up bowlers were very ordinary.
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There is a lot of talk about the pace of the Aussies being too much but every batsmen at that level come across pace like that on a regular basis whether in a game or training. For me they tried to be a bit too positive against the short ball alot of the time its was either leave it or its a boundary. I'm watched pretty much all 5 days and I wouldn't have said the Aussies played the short ball well either but they only recieved maybe half of the short stuff england got.
Especially the first 3 days the ball looked like it was tennis ball bounce especially back of a length and it looked like it was very hard to know how much it was going to bounce and even with the Aussie pace it didn't look like it was coming on much either so playing cuts and pull would be tough to judge never mind score from.
Youll notice throughout between both teams there was alot of pull shots attempted that were above shoulder height which is very hard to control.
England's attack still look too similar to one another and ball and Woakes tried to follow too much line and length would like to have see more variation from both of them.
Ali Is a big worry a cut index finger will be tough to fix quick I've had a blister / cut on my hand from batting twice a week for the last 5 weeks and keeps tearing everytime I bat. So for him to recover it will be tough he is not gonna be able to practise bowling very much so I would suspect we may play crane.
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Apparently the Bairstow incident was gaming around on a non curfew night there was no malaice in it no action to be taken against Johnny just an error of judgement as what he did three weeks ago presented the opportunity to try and undermine and unsettle the England side during the first test.
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Woakes and Ball combined match bowling 61 overs for 228 runs for 2 wickets tell you anything.
Okay You can bowl well and not take wickets but as the first test progressed they never looked like getting a wicket.
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Just watched that Bancroft interview
Wtf is going on? Is it a wind up or something? Am I missing something
Bairstow greets him with a headbutt?
And he didn't react? Other than to have a conversation with him for the rest of the evening
After the whole stokes thing, nah, not adding up
What they feeding these elite,professional athletes? Vodka red bulls and rare steak?
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The two bouncers per over law is in place, right?
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Watching the post match Bayless interview a good performance by Wood in his current match could see him selected for the second test
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Just watched that Bancroft interview
Wtf is going on? Is it a wind up or something? Am I missing something
Bairstow greets him with a headbutt?
And he didn't react? Other than to have a conversation with him for the rest of the evening
After the whole stokes thing, nah, not adding up
What they feeding these elite,professional athletes? Vodka red bulls and rare steak?
I think the term headbutt is the issue here. It obviously wasn't an actual headbutt, otherwise Bancroft would have seen some damage and everyone would have known about it before now.
Struggling if Ali isn't fit enough to bowl for the 2nd test. Not sure you can throw Crane in, which was always a concern.
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They can't really have Ball or Overton, Broad, Anderson, Crane as a tail - given Woakes is being found out a little, it'd leaves Bairstow having to perform heroics.
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They can't really have Ball or Overton, Broad, Anderson, Crane as a tail - given Woakes is being found out a little, it'd leaves Bairstow having to perform heroics.
We can't, and we don't have many options. If you look back recent history we have not made the really big first innings scores enough. The ashes tour we won we did put massive scores on the board, Cook was scoring for fun and trott and the others backed him up.
Root is an excellent player but 50 or 70 won't win games. so we need contributions down the order. Very hard without stokes to do that but Woakes is going to need to score some runs at 8...
It would weaken the bowling but maybe ballance as a spcialist batsman or Foakes in and Bairstow just as a batsman might , I say might, be an option.
That leaves the bowling a bit thin. Broad, Anderson, Ali and Woakes don't look enough really
We are stuck I think for now.
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Apparently Stokes spotted at Heathrow?
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Yep with all his kit if someone can post pic beforr i can then great
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https://mobile.twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/935254724110102531/photo/1
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(http://i1360.photobucket.com/albums/r659/FRCCWoody/IMG-20171127-WA0004_zpsymihgh7l.jpg)
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Bairstow best avoid the nut of the head as a 'friendly northern greeting' would be my suggestion. A handshake is good enough down South.
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If he really is on his way, our side will be vastly better balanced and more competitive. Would drop Ball... I think Woakes will come good but also appreciate we have a faster option out there too...
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Bairstow best avoid the nut of the head as a 'friendly northern greeting' would be my suggestion. A handshake is good enough down South.
I'm hoping for a social media post of Stokes walking into the dressing room and YJB running over to nut him one...
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TMS saying he is not flying out to be part of the ashes or the Lions tour
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Sky Sports News allegedly saying he's flying to New Zealand to spend time with his family
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Looks like he has his kit....just in case
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Who goes all that way around the world to just have some practice time? I guess we'll see him in Perth
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Australia assaulted England over the last day and a half of that Test. Once again England proved weak against the short ball, the tail cleaned up with absolute ease in both innings, which will be a concern. We have to keep the foot on the throat now, make sure we turn up the nastiness and really go at them. The pink ball will bring the England bowlers into the game in Adelaide as we all know Australia's frailties against the moving ball. But Starc is as lethal as any going around with the pink ball. So is Chadd Sayers, and I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if he gets a debut on his home ground. If it is 2-0 after Adelaide The Ashes are just about gone given Perth will be next on the schedule.
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ECB - Stop punishing the team with the refusal to play Stokes (If he can travel surely he can play) and just get him in the bloody team at Adelaide!
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Bairstow best avoid the nut of the head as a 'friendly northern greeting' would be my suggestion. A handshake is good enough down South.
Careful pal, don't make me remove my flat cap just to greet you!
:D
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Stokes looking to get a game for Canterbury Cricket club pending ECB approval.
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Stokes looking to get a game for Canterbury Cricket club pending ECB approval.
Good move by Stokes match practice and much easier to get to OZ.
Does he know somthing and preparing for the thrid test.
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Good move by Stokes match practice and much easier to get to OZ.
Does he know somthing and preparing for the thrid test.
If Stokes is making the necessary moves to join the England squad, I am sure he won't be doing this without some knowledge of his current situation with the cops. TBH - Stokes is the best person to know how much trouble he is in. I am guessing he is surrounded by sufficient number of lawyers to advise him on the possibility of participating in Ashes.
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I wouldn't be pinning all my hopes on Stokes being the saviour of the Ashes. He is but one man, and he may not get there at all.
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I think the problem is, we need to get something from the game in Adelaide to have a chance of retaining (I think we should write Perth off as a bad deal in any event). You rather wish the ECB would take the pistol away from its feet...
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Bairstow best avoid the nut of the head as a 'friendly northern greeting' would be my suggestion. A handshake is good enough down South.
Has he started a trend Imagine it captains go out to toss up and rather than an handshake it's a nut of the head
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ECB - Stop punishing the team with the refusal to play Stokes (If he can travel surely he can play) and just get him in the bloody team at Adelaide!
If you honestly think its the ECB thats punishing your team then perhaps you need to watch that cctv footage again......
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If you honestly think its the ECB thats punishing your team then perhaps you need to watch that cctv footage again......
Yawn!
He is available to play (He must be or wouldn't be allowed out the country/to play in New Zealand) so why isn't he??
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I think the problem is, we need to get something from the game in Adelaide to have a chance of retaining (I think we should write Perth off as a bad deal in any event). You rather wish the ECB would take the pistol away from its feet...
Perth has been a dead , featherbed batsmens paradise a few times in the last number of years , with the new zealand test the 'standout' . If something like that pitch eventuates then its nothing but a looooong boring draw .
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Yawn!
He is available to play (He must be or wouldn't be allowed out the country/to play in New Zealand) so why isn't he??
Hickup!
Because he bashed someones face in?
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He is only one man and doesn't necessarily mean we will suddenly become awesome, but just the lift of spirits alone and the buzz of him being back in the side will improve our chances. Echo what's already been said, if he is able to travel, then why in God's name is he not on his way to join up with the squad and prepare with them, for when the time is right and he is ready/able to play. Could be pretty much series over if we lose in adelaide, ECB need to get there act together
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He must be waiting for the go ahead or why would he take his England kit all the way to NZ he wouldn't need it for club cricket also by already being in NZ he will have the 23 hour flight from the uk behind him
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He must be waiting for the go ahead or why would he take his England kit all the way to NZ he wouldn't need it for club cricket also by already being in NZ he will have the 23 hour flight from the uk behind him
That's just his kit bag though, isn't it?
Seeing as he's no longer sponsored by New Balance, maybe he though it best to use his England issue (ironically, made by New Balance) bag rather than that of his former sponsor?
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He is only one man and doesn't necessarily mean we will suddenly become awesome, but just the lift of spirits alone and the buzz of him being back in the side will improve our chances. Echo what's already been said, if he is able to travel, then why in God's name is he not on his way to join up with the squad and prepare with them, for when the time is right and he is ready/able to play. Could be pretty much series over if we lose in adelaide, ECB need to get there act together
Indeed, however if we get him in for ball then we're playing with 11(arguably 12) instead of 10.
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That's just his kit bag though, isn't it?
Seeing as he's no longer sponsored by New Balance, maybe he though it best to use his England issue (ironically, made by New Balance) bag rather than that of his former sponsor?
In the pic posted a couple pages ago he has his ecb nb duffle on his back , he is pushing a trolley and the bottom bag looks like its a red/black/yellow nb wheelie .
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In the pic posted a couple pages ago he has his ecb nb duffle on his back , he is pushing a trolley and the bottom bag looks like its a red/black/yellow nb wheelie .
So he does.
I was distracted by the golf clubs...
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Although if it was 'just' to go and see family and maybe play for Canterbury he'd have used his Durham issued bags?
I love it, it's like a Soap Opera! Just needs Phil Mitchell to turn up and call someone a schlllaaaaaaaaaaaagggg!
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Although if it was 'just' to go and see family and maybe play for Canterbury he'd have used his Durham issued bags?
I love it, it's like a Soap Opera! Just needs Phil Mitchell to turn up and call someone a schlllaaaaaaaaaaaagggg!
Do counties issue players with bags?
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Do counties issue players with bags?
Hmmm good question. I assumed they would, very willing to be wrong. I'm just so excited by Ben Stokes maybe playing some part.
I AM a giddy goat! < Sad IT Crowd reference....
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Do counties issue players with bags?
I know the Yorkshire squad get kit bags with Yorkshire badges all over them unsure on Durham though.
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Anyone put two and two together and got 5 yet?
Bancroft head butt. Adidas and bairstow parting ways via "mutual agreement" seems pretty close together........
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Anyone put two and two together and got 5 yet?
Bancroft head butt. Adidas and bairstow parting ways via "mutual agreement" seems pretty close together........
Landed in Perth after Adidas made the announcement.
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Yeah that one did not quite tie up.
Have to say, along with probably a good percentage of the forum, I find it a bit odd to say the least a test player in the middle of a very high profile series does not have a sponsor.
The only other time I can a remember it happening was when Clarke used a blank (and got 300 or something) until he then got a deal with Spartan.
Perhaps I'm putting 2 and 2 together and making 5 too. :)
Seems odd thou
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Maybe he has a pre ashes meeting with Adidas and greeted their representative in a similar matter...
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Bit more on Stokes in the guardian they are saying he is there to get match fit in case he is cleared by the time the Perth test match comes around. Makes sense allround I think.
Also saying the ECB would brave any backlash from the public/the press/anyone really and forward date any suspension so he would be straight in.
Obviously that only applies if he is not charged You would think.
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Also saying the ECB would brave any backlash from the public/the press/anyone really and forward date any suspension so he would be straight in.
Spineless as usual.
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Yeah that one did not quite tie up.
Have to say, along with probably a good percentage of the forum, I find it a bit odd to say the least a test player in the middle of a very high profile series does not have a sponsor.
The only other time I can a remember it happening was when Clarke used a blank (and got 300 or something) until he then got a deal with Spartan.
Perhaps I'm putting 2 and 2 together and making 5 too. :)
Seems odd thou
I remember a famous century scored by S. Waugh with a blank bat at the oval. Raising his bat from the deck.. injured
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I remember a famous century scored by S. Waugh with a blank bat at the oval. Raising his bat from the deck.. injured
When was this? I remember seeing Steve Waugh in GM gear while Mark Waugh used Slazenger.
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Stokes gets a less than friendly reception on arrival in NZ from the OZ press and Strauss for issuing Stokes with a no objection certificate on Friday and then reportedly stating nothing else to offer regarding The Stokes situation on Monday.
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When was this? I remember seeing Steve Waugh in GM gear while Mark Waugh used Slazenger.
2001 at the oval
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/image/657317.html?object=61345;dir=next (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/image/657317.html?object=61345;dir=next)
Rumours are it was a Bradbury but I’m sure Hoover could confirm this
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2001 at the oval
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/image/657317.html?object=61345;dir=next[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/image/657317.html?object=61345;dir=next[/url])
Rumours are it was a Bradbury but I’m sure Hoover could confirm this
Could be wrong but
Wasn't Julian Milchamp making his bats back then and also for other members of the Aussie team.
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Could be wrong but
Wasn't Julian Milchamp making his bats back then and also for other members of the Aussie team.
Maybe... As I said a Rumour
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I think if you go back to the mid 90’s it was pretty common knowledge the Aussies had millichamp bats
Good spot from the forum on Waugh’s ton with a blank
Fabulous innings it was from a brilliant player
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http://www.bradburycricket.com/about (http://www.bradburycricket.com/about)
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[url]http://www.bradburycricket.com/about[/url] ([url]http://www.bradburycricket.com/about[/url])
I always thought Bradbury had been a Millichamp apprentice?
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I always thought Bradbury had been a Millichamp apprentice?
Only two that I think worked with JM and are still making bats I thought were Rob and Laver. Rob then went onto Kookaburra and Laver obviously started his own. I could be completely wrong here.
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Anyone put two and two together and got 5 yet?
Bancroft head butt. Adidas and bairstow parting ways via "mutual agreement" seems pretty close together........
Rumour is a new big money GN deal is imminent.
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Only two that I think worked with JM and are still making bats I thought were Rob and Laver. Rob then went onto Kookaburra and Laver obviously started his own. I could be completely wrong here.
Rob?
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Rob?
Rob Pack
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Only two that I think worked with JM and are still making bats I thought were Rob and Laver. Rob then went onto Kookaburra and Laver obviously started his own. I could be completely wrong here.
Didn't Kember work with him
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Didn't Kember work with him
I am not sure, maybe he did
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I think if you go back to the mid 90’s it was pretty common knowledge the Aussies had millichamp bats
Good spot from the forum on Waugh’s ton with a blank
Fabulous innings it was from a brilliant player
would often when batting play for himself many times saw him take a single off the first ball of the over and put his number eleven on strike.
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I always thought Bradbury had been a Millichamp apprentice?
I was the first. The second was Lee Brittain. Lee and I left. James then joined.
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I always thought Bradbury had been a Millichamp apprentice?
I joined in 1990 and left in 1993 when Puma purchased MandH
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Only two that I think worked with JM and are still making bats I thought were Rob and Laver. Rob then went onto Kookaburra and Laver obviously started his own. I could be completely wrong here.
The only people who worked with Jonathan and Julian were me, Lee Brittain, Henry Gresswell ( came in as a partner 1992, then purchased M&H UK and sold to Rob Chambers) , (pretty sure Julian and Chambers never crossed paths)Simon Milton, Sam Miller, James Laver and an Australian lad called Van Vliet.
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2001 at the oval
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/image/657317.html?object=61345;dir=next[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/image/657317.html?object=61345;dir=next[/url])
Rumours are it was a Bradbury but I’m sure Hoover could confirm this
Yes, Sally and I made Steve's bats for 10 plus years. At the time Sally asked Steve's manager ( Robert Joske) to for one series put the "real maker's name on the bat" whilst he was negotiating a new deal with MRF. They felt a blank bat was better bargaining power. 8 of the 11 Aussies were using Bradbury. There were English batsmen as well. The clue lies in our logo in ink on the top of the handle and a yellow grip was often left on :)
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Yes, Sally and I made Steve's bats for 10 plus years. At the time Sally asked Steve's manager ( Robert Joske) to for one series put the "real maker's name on the bat" whilst he was negotiating a new deal with MRF. They felt a blank bat was better bargaining power. 8 of the 11 Aussies were using Bradbury. There were English batsmen as well. The clue lies in our logo in ink on the top of the handle and a yellow grip was often left on :)
@Hoover @Kippax @hell4leather cricket @The Doctor (apologies if I’ve missed any off the list)Genuine question to yourselves as makers, when you see a pro who is using your bats with a different brands stickers/blank is it a sense of pride or frustration at the industry?
To me, as a consumer of cricket goods I feel the public is often duped by this practice in the cricket industry??
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Interesting take on England's/Stokes issue here -
http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-england-2017/content/story/1127444.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-england-2017/content/story/1127444.html)
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Rob Pack
Learned at Hunts County.
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I am not sure, maybe he did
Millichamp, Kember and Keeley were all Newbery apprentices.
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Stokes update from Avon Police
https://twitter.com/ASPolice/status/935886626500370432
File has been passed to CPS - they will now decide if there is sufficient evidence to charge.
(No Swearing Please) just got real
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Millichamp, Kember and Keeley were all Newbery apprentices.
Think there's a GN link as well
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@Hoover @Kippax @hell4leather cricket @The Doctor (apologies if I’ve missed any off the list)Genuine question to yourselves as makers, when you see a pro who is using your bats with a different brands stickers/blank is it a sense of pride or frustration at the industry?
To me, as a consumer of cricket goods I feel the public is often duped by this practice in the cricket industry??
In 2001, the powers to be, contemplated a rule change that only only bona fide makers can label bats, we were so excited ... then they realised the marketing companies were powerful contributors to the industry, so many brands that are not actual makers, and it all got too hard. Money talks. So, when times are tough, sure we get frustrated, and we rely on passion to keep going. But no matter what, there is pride when a customer does well on the big stage and we feel a part of that success. There is really no room for a big ego when you are a genuine, passionate maker.
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Think there's a GN link as well
Yes, John Newbery worked for Gray Nicolls. He started his own brand from there.
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In 2001, the powers to be, contemplated a rule change that only only bona fide makers can label bats, we were so excited ... then they realised the marketing companies were powerful contributors to the industry, so many brands that are not actual makers, and it all got too hard. Money talks. So, when times are tough, sure we get frustrated, and we rely on passion to keep going. But no matter what, there is pride when a customer does well on the big stage and we feel a part of that success. There is really no room for a big ego when you are a genuine, passionate maker.
I find it disappointing that the big brands get so much attention on here.
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Stokes update from Avon Police
https://twitter.com/ASPolice/status/935886626500370432
File has been passed to CPS - they will now decide if there is sufficient evidence to charge.
(No Swearing Please) just got real
Aaaaand that's game over
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Genuine question to yourselves as makers, when you see a pro who is using your bats with a different brands stickers/blank is it a sense of pride or frustration at the industry?
To me, as a consumer of cricket goods I feel the public is often duped by this practice in the cricket industry??
Unfortunately always going to be the case, and will become increasingly so as cricket becomes more commercial. Does it bother me, not really, it is just a pat on the back, a well done. I feel an immense pride when I see our bats on the TV. Is it wrong, is it conning the club cricket player that shells out his hard earned cash because he wants a bat like his hero, that's a whole different kettle of fish! This is not restricted to Cricket though but goes across the plethora of sports.
This scenario is close to a cricketer buying a bat off a company whom market that they make their own bats but don't.....
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Interesting take on England's/Stokes issue here -
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-england-2017/content/story/1127444.html[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-england-2017/content/story/1127444.html[/url])
Interesting article and I agree with most of it.
And I tell you another thing - if we ever come to the point where people are seeking advice or opinion from Watson, Warner and Smith on any subject other than hitting a ball with a stick then the world is in trouble. A combined IQ of about 40. Maybe there should be a law against public speaking by complete and utter mongs.
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Stokes update from Avon Police
https://twitter.com/ASPolice/status/935886626500370432
File has been passed to CPS - they will now decide if there is sufficient evidence to charge.
(No Swearing Please) just got real
Seems odd to me that they are seeking charging advice which to me means they have a case but not sure if it’s enough to convict on... at least we should have a clear picture and know what is happening shortly!
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Stokes update from Avon Police
https://twitter.com/ASPolice/status/935886626500370432
File has been passed to CPS - they will now decide if there is sufficient evidence to charge.
(No Swearing Please) just got real
CPS could take a while to make a decision so let Ben play after all he's innocent until and if the CPS decide there's enough evidence to bring a charge.
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Interesting article and I agree with most of it.
And I tell you another thing - if we ever come to the point where people are seeking advice or opinion from Watson, Warner and Smith on any subject other than hitting a ball with a stick then the world is in trouble. A combined IQ of about 40. Maybe there should be a law against public speaking by complete and utter mongs.
Or the opinion of Warners wife on the subject
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Seems odd to me that they are seeking charging advice which to me means they have a case but not sure if it’s enough to convict on... at least we should have a clear picture and know what is happening shortly!
Exactly what i thought. They'd have thrown it out before rather than go to CPS if they didnt think it would go anywhere. Could easily rule Mr Stokes out of the Ashes
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Seems odd to me that they are seeking charging advice which to me means they have a case but not sure if it’s enough to convict on... at least we should have a clear picture and know what is happening shortly!
Issue they also have, is that he could be charged with any of the following:
GBH
ABH
Affray
D&D
Assault
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Seems odd to me that they are seeking charging advice which to me means they have a case but not sure if it’s enough to convict on... at least we should have a clear picture and know what is happening shortly!
It means they think they do have enough. The police don’t actually prosecute in this country it’s the CPS, who in general can do one of four things
Agree with police and tell A&S to charge
Suggest charge on a lesser offence to try and increase chances of a conviction (not sure if relevant in this case)
Disagree that A&S have a strong case and suggest release with NFA
Suggest prosecution is not in the publics interest and release NFA
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The fact that they're seeking charging advice more than likely means they're seeking advice on which charge to bring, not if they will charge. As @justnotcricket86 has just said, it could be one of many. I'd be very surprised from this point if all charges are dropped (and even more surprised if he's wearing an England shirt at any point this winter!).
Either way, it could be a while until we hear any more - sorry state of affairs.
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It means they think they do have enough. The police don’t actually prosecute in this country it’s the CPS, who in general can do one of four things
Agree with police and tell A&S to charge
Suggest charge on a lesser offence to try and increase chances of a conviction (not sure if relevant in this case)
Disagree that A&S have a strong case and suggest release with NFA
Suggest prosecution is not in the publics interest and release NFA
"Suggest prosecution is not in the publics interest and release"
Surely being needed to play in Aus makes that nailed on
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Surely being needed to play in Aus makes that nailed on
We're about to find out how much the CPS likes cricket that's for sure! :D
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We're about to find out how much the CPS likes cricket that's for sure! :D
I wonder if any of the CPS play cricket. If any do, and they go ahead with the prosecution, I think we should be encouraging opposition bowlers to give them some short stuff next season to get across our displeasure at their decision :D
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would often when batting play for himself many times saw him take a single off the first ball of the over and put his number eleven on strike.
He did...very true, his view being they should be able to bat. Like yourself I've watched many Australian batsmen over the years, God knows we saw enough of them in the 90"s.
Depending on your viewpoint Waugh and Mark Taylor were two of the most influential players and captains of the last few years.
Being a batter myself (despite the CBF net buddies regularly seeing my 'medium pace' ) I've admired both until they retired.
Waugh led the Aussies to be the best side in the world, and a tough player he was too, certainly not afraid of being disliked.
He might of been selfish, he might not be a very nice bloke, he might of a ruthless sledger, but Jardine was most of those and he was ours.
:)
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He did...very true, his view being they should be able to bat. Like yourself I've watched many Australian batsmen over the years, God knows we saw enough of them in the 90"s.
Depending on your viewpoint Waugh and Mark Taylor were two of the most influential players and captains of the last few years.
Being a batter myself (despite the CBF net buddies regularly seeing my 'medium pace' ) I've admired both until they retired.
Waugh led the Aussies to be the best side in the world, and a tough player he was too, certainly not afraid of being disliked.
He might of been selfish, he might not be a very nice bloke, he might of a ruthless sledger, but Jardine was most of those and he was ours.
:)
You could add Alan Border to the list limited ability with the bat but probably the most influential of the three as he started the Aussie turnaround after getting beat by England with Taylor and Waugh carrying it on.
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You could add Alan Border to the list limited ability with the bat but probably the most influential of the three as he started the Aussie turnaround after getting beat by England with Taylor and Waugh carrying it on.
Yes absolutely. :)
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Interesting take on England's/Stokes issue here -
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-england-2017/content/story/1127444.html[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-england-2017/content/story/1127444.html[/url])
A balanced and reflective article. Thanks for posting, very worth a read from the excellent George Dobell.
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Yes, Sally and I made Steve's bats for 10 plus years. At the time Sally asked Steve's manager ( Robert Joske) to for one series put the "real maker's name on the bat" whilst he was negotiating a new deal with MRF. They felt a blank bat was better bargaining power. 8 of the 11 Aussies were using Bradbury. There were English batsmen as well. The clue lies in our logo in ink on the top of the handle and a yellow grip was often left on :)
Thanks for the confirmation Paul I knew I wasn’t going crazy 😜. I do plan on using a Bradbury before my cricketing days are over. With an over 50’s comp looking like a possibility over here my days might be longer than expected 🏏
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Canterbury CC board to meet to decide if Stokes can play this weekend
ECB to meet to consider the police action re Stokes but it's reported that they will not review there stance until the CPS make a decision.
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Odd that Anderson is questioning bouncers with the ump. Just going to get more in the next test now. Seen plenty england do the same to other sides
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42179783 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42179783)
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This would be my XI for the next test. A solid top 5 that won't be skittled, some aggression from 6,7,8 then a fearsome bowling attack. I think it's quite balanced. What does everyone think?
http://bbc.in/2iogbua (http://bbc.in/2iogbua)
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Odd that Anderson is questioning bouncers with the ump. Just going to get more in the next test now. Seen plenty england do the same to other sides
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42179783[/url] ([url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42179783[/url])
Don't cry, Jimmy!
Was it different when England were bowling exclusively short to Smifffy?
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Don't cry, Jimmy!
Was it different when England were bowling exclusively short to Smifffy?
41.6.1 The bowling of short pitched deliveries is dangerous if the bowler’s end umpire considers that, taking into consideration the skill of the striker, by their speed, length, height and direction they are likely to inflict physical injury on him/her. The fact that the striker is wearing protective equipment shall be disregarded.
Perfectly legitimate claim to be fair, also imagine the whining from the Australian bowlers if told to pitch it up. On the other hand, Starc bowling yorkers is far more likely to get Jimmy out in a hurry than Starc bowling bumpers, so be careful what you wish for.
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This would be my XI for the next test. A solid top 5 that won't be skittled, some aggression from 6,7,8 then a fearsome bowling attack. I think it's quite balanced. What does everyone think?
[url]http://bbc.in/2iogbua[/url] ([url]http://bbc.in/2iogbua[/url])
I lost all interest at Gary Ballance. Bump him, bump him, bump him, pitch it full, lbw. Thanks for coming Gary, swallow your pride and work on your technique
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This would be my XI for the next test. A solid top 5 that won't be skittled, some aggression from 6,7,8 then a fearsome bowling attack. I think it's quite balanced. What does everyone think?
[url]http://bbc.in/2iogbua[/url] ([url]http://bbc.in/2iogbua[/url])
Assume trolling..?
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I lost all interest at Gary Ballance. Bump him, bump him, bump him, pitch it full, lbw. Thanks for coming Gary, swallow your pride and work on your technique
The third one's a no-ball?
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The third one's a no-ball?
Tell that to the umpires in the last test...
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Odd that Anderson is questioning bouncers with the ump. Just going to get more in the next test now. Seen plenty england do the same to other sides
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42179783[/url] ([url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42179783[/url])
This does seem very odd, a tactic to deflect some attention away from Bairstow and his headbutt/handshake?
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Heard on the radio that the Aussies bowled five bumpers in an over at Ball- surely that is excessive?
41.6 Bowling of dangerous and unfair short pitched deliveries
41.6.1 The bowling of short pitched deliveries is dangerous if the bowler’s end umpire considers that, taking into consideration the skill of the striker, by their speed, length, height and direction they are likely to inflict physical injury on him/her. The fact that the striker is wearing protective equipment shall be disregarded.
All taken from :
https://www.lords.org/mcc/laws-of-cricket/laws/law-41-unfair-play/ (https://www.lords.org/mcc/laws-of-cricket/laws/law-41-unfair-play/)
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Heard on the radio that the Aussies bowled five bumpers in an over at Ball- surely that is excessive?
41.6 Bowling of dangerous and unfair short pitched deliveries
41.6.1 "The bowling of short pitched deliveries is dangerous if the bowler’s end umpire considers that, taking into consideration the skill of the striker, by their speed, length, height and direction they are likely to inflict physical injury on him/her. The fact that the striker is wearing protective equipment shall be disregarded. "
It goes on to say that the delivery can be called a no ball.
All taken from :
https://www.lords.org/mcc/laws-of-cricket/laws/law-41-unfair-play/ (https://www.lords.org/mcc/laws-of-cricket/laws/law-41-unfair-play/)
Perhaps this is a clever move from Anderson to not only bring it to the attention of the umpires,but also the media- meaning the umps will be under pressure to act. Good work Jimmy!
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The third one's a no-ball?
You're right. Why give away a run when he's gonna get pegged in single figures anyway. Starc et al would have a field day with him...
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Perhaps this is a clever move from Anderson to not only bring it to the attention of the umpires,but also the media- meaning the umps will be under pressure to act. Good work Jimmy!
Did you actually watch the match? The tactic of bowling short pitched deliveries to Smith must have gone unnoticed. Body line was mentioned at one point
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Did you actually watch the match? The tactic of bowling short pitched deliveries to Smith must have gone unnoticed. Body line was mentioned at one point
I didn't watch it all,no-was merely speculating as to why Anderson brought it up- is that ok by you?
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A balanced and reflective article. Thanks for posting, very worth a read from the excellent George Dobell.
Ok. So to summarise the article for those that havnt already read it, and who dont wish to vomit up a little bit into their mouths. Heres the condensed version. So.......
- Some of the team actually have sisters and mothers, and families......... So ummm, yeah, that makes them super terrific boys! Righto.
- Its all Australias fault! OH OF COURSE IT IS!!!
- English players work tirelessly and thanklessly for countless charities!........ Mother Teresa, you should be embarrassed.
- Actually, its a bit ECBs fault too....... Thats right ecb. Tell all those nasty bullies to go away!!
- England choose to take the high road......... Harder to shine the ball if you go that road fellas ;)
- STOKES MY HERO!....... for breaking a guys face? No wait. He was just "over-zealous". That almost sounds kinda cute :)
- Aussies have no morals or genuine interest in justice....... We convicts remember. Your fault!
- Violence amoung the Eng squad is an aberration........ Gee I sure hope those kicks to the head only felt like an aberration too....
- The media and the ECB should say more nice things about our lovely boys!
Balanced........? BALANCED????? The only thing missing from that article was a stirring rendition of god save the queen.
The more i read garbage like this the more i actually want Stokes to play.
Hurry up Adelaide!!!! :)
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Ok. So to summarise the article for those that havnt already read it, and who dont wish to vomit up a little bit into their mouths. Heres the condensed version. So.......
- Some of the team actually have sisters and mothers, and families......... So ummm, yeah, that makes them super terrific boys! Righto.
- Its all Australias fault! OH OF COURSE IT IS!!!
- English players work tirelessly and thanklessly for countless charities!........ Mother Teresa, you should be embarrassed.
- Actually, its a bit ECBs fault too....... Thats right ecb. Tell all those nasty bullies to go away!!
- England choose to take the high road......... Harder to shine the ball if you go that road fellas ;)
- STOKES MY HERO!....... for breaking a guys face? No wait. He was just "over-zealous". That almost sounds kinda cute :)
- Aussies have no morals or genuine interest in justice....... We convicts remember. Your fault!
- Violence amoung the Eng squad is an aberration........ Gee I sure hope those kicks to the head only felt like an aberrWation too....
- The media and the ECB should say more nice things about our lovely boys!
Balanced........? BALANCED????? The only thing missing from that article was a stirring rendition of god save the queen.
The more i read garbage like this the more i actually want Stokes to play.
Hurry up Adelaide!!!! :)
Not god save the queen it's land of hope and glory.
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Neither of those on offer here in aus. :D
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Ok. So to summarise the article for those that havnt already read it, and who dont wish to vomit up a little bit into their mouths. Heres the condensed version. So.......
- Some of the team actually have sisters and mothers, and families......... So ummm, yeah, that makes them super terrific boys! Righto.
- Its all Australias fault! OH OF COURSE IT IS!!!
- English players work tirelessly and thanklessly for countless charities!........ Mother Teresa, you should be embarrassed.
- Actually, its a bit ECBs fault too....... Thats right ecb. Tell all those nasty bullies to go away!!
- England choose to take the high road......... Harder to shine the ball if you go that road fellas ;)
- STOKES MY HERO!....... for breaking a guys face? No wait. He was just "over-zealous". That almost sounds kinda cute :)
- Aussies have no morals or genuine interest in justice....... We convicts remember. Your fault!
- Violence amoung the Eng squad is an aberration........ Gee I sure hope those kicks to the head only felt like an aberration too....
- The media and the ECB should say more nice things about our lovely boys!
Balanced........? BALANCED????? The only thing missing from that article was a stirring rendition of god save the queen.
The more i read garbage like this the more i actually want Stokes to play.
Hurry up Adelaide!!!! :)
Mate your hysterical
Are you the same dude who replied to one of my posts with ‘calm down’
-
Ok. So to summarise the article for those that havnt already read it, and who dont wish to vomit up a little bit into their mouths. Heres the condensed version. So.......
- Some of the team actually have sisters and mothers, and families......... So ummm, yeah, that makes them super terrific boys! Righto.
- Its all Australias fault! OH OF COURSE IT IS!!!
- English players work tirelessly and thanklessly for countless charities!........ Mother Teresa, you should be embarrassed.
- Actually, its a bit ECBs fault too....... Thats right ecb. Tell all those nasty bullies to go away!!
- England choose to take the high road......... Harder to shine the ball if you go that road fellas ;)
- STOKES MY HERO!....... for breaking a guys face? No wait. He was just "over-zealous". That almost sounds kinda cute :)
- Aussies have no morals or genuine interest in justice....... We convicts remember. Your fault!
- Violence amoung the Eng squad is an aberration........ Gee I sure hope those kicks to the head only felt like an aberration too....
- The media and the ECB should say more nice things about our lovely boys!
Balanced........? BALANCED????? The only thing missing from that article was a stirring rendition of god save the queen.
The more i read garbage like this the more i actually want Stokes to play.
Hurry up Adelaide!!!! :)
Yeah dobell's article seemed very much in the 'apologist' vein to me . He's got friendly ties to the england camp so I'm sure he legit believes they are good blokes and the culture is good ( ie not a drinking /violent culture). I'm pretty sure they are mostly decent blokes and it's not a violent culture . Excessive drinking culture ? How would i know ? But, the article does seem quite imbalanced.....which distracts from some of the good points it brings up .
Something I've been pondering lately - if we are not to judge stokes prematurely as being a thug , then surely we can't judge him prematurely as being a 'hero' either ?
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A balanced and reflective article. Thanks for posting, very worth a read from the excellent George Dobell.
Without a doubt worth a read a considered astute article
-
Ok. So to summarise the article for those that havnt already read it, and who dont wish to vomit up a little bit into their mouths. Heres the condensed version. So.......
- Some of the team actually have sisters and mothers, and families......... So ummm, yeah, that makes them super terrific boys! Righto.
- Its all Australias fault! OH OF COURSE IT IS!!!
- English players work tirelessly and thanklessly for countless charities!........ Mother Teresa, you should be embarrassed.
- Actually, its a bit ECBs fault too....... Thats right ecb. Tell all those nasty bullies to go away!!
- England choose to take the high road......... Harder to shine the ball if you go that road fellas ;)
- STOKES MY HERO!....... for breaking a guys face? No wait. He was just "over-zealous". That almost sounds kinda cute :)
- Aussies have no morals or genuine interest in justice....... We convicts remember. Your fault!
- Violence amoung the Eng squad is an aberration........ Gee I sure hope those kicks to the head only felt like an aberration too....
- The media and the ECB should say more nice things about our lovely boys!
Balanced........? BALANCED????? The only thing missing from that article was a stirring rendition of god save the queen.
The more i read garbage like this the more i actually want Stokes to play.
Hurry up Adelaide!!!! :)
I'm not sure he's saying England players are beyond reproach and all angels, just that the Stokes incident was isolated. Although I don't condone Stokes actions, I also don't condone homophobic behaviour if this is what caused him to react (two guys came forward and reported this was the case, they called him the 'hero' which is why the reporter uses this term I think).
The Aussie media overdid it with Bairstow, it wasn't a headbutt and to have a go at the guy and insinuate this constitutes a drinking culture in the squad and a history of violence is a little far fetched and damaging to guys who are there to just play cricket. I agree with his point that the ECB and Strauss should have backed Bairstow a bit more, as the Aussies would probably if it had been one of theirs. Instead they probably played into the Aussies hands by almost agreeing to there being a problem, even if there isn't. Just my opinion obviously :D
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OMG - best thing England can do is stop sending players out to give vapid sound bites and interviews to a rabid media and let their cricket do the talking.
I feel England have too much to say and a bit of action would speak louder than words.
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Will England admit they’ve got the squad wrong, realise Moeen is struggling and call up Jack Leach from the lions??
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Well said Cat you purring legend. This tour has had the strangest start I can remember, odd things seem to be happening.
Even today there's a unexpected article from Anderson about the short pitched bowling. But why has he mentioned it? There's nothing untoward going on and if there was the umpires can intervene.....its just odd
England are going to get short pitched bowling, we are going to play on faster tracks and the old bowlers Union went out about 20 years ago.
I really don't get why he would bring that up to the press...
Everything we do seems to be playing into the Aussie hands.including Strauss who is a bright bloke imposing a curfew on the players when they set their own curfews and rules and have done since Athertons days.
If the Bairstow incident was nothing other than a bit of horseplay gone wrong a its worst why do we need a curfew?
Why didn't Steauss just come out and say it was a bit odd, but he is backing the players, just crack on there's nothing to see here.
By over reacting Steauss is doing. Exactly what the Aussies want him to do.
its mental !
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Without a doubt worth a read a considered astute article
The only thing even remotely astute was his assessment of Watson. NOBODY, aus or english need pay attention to anything that buffoon has to say.
Mate your hysterical
Are you the same dude who replied to one of my posts with ‘calm down’
Calm down mate!
I am now :D
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Word coming out this morning that Ali is fit to bat tomorrow but may not be fit to bowl, will they start Crane and play Ali purely as a batsman?
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Jimmy continues to cry wolf - calling the aussies bullies
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21624854/australia-sledging-cross-line-steven-smith (http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21624854/australia-sledging-cross-line-steven-smith)
Really amusing given his conduct on the pitch. Just going to get the aussies to dish some more out
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Word coming out this morning that Ali is fit to bat tomorrow but may not be fit to bowl, will they start Crane and play Ali purely as a batsman?
Yes def Concern about Ali’s finger-he will def play just as a batsman but it’s a problem we don’t need
Root could bowl a few and bring a batsman in-that don’t look good.
If Adelaide under lights will turn maybe crane will play after all
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Jimmy continues to cry wolf - calling the aussies bullies
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21624854/australia-sledging-cross-line-steven-smith[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21624854/australia-sledging-cross-line-steven-smith[/url])
Really amusing given his conduct on the pitch. Just going to get the aussies to dish some more out
if the Aussies must
dish it out but keep it to banter not personal no true cricket fan wants to hear comments such as get ready for a broken arm a remark a certain Aussie is credited with
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Will England admit they’ve got the squad wrong, realise Moeen is struggling and call up Jack Leach from the lions??
Leach didn't exactly have the best audition the other day for the Lions by getting smashed by Queensland 2nd XI whilst 19 year old Amar Virdi took a 4fer at the other end.
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Word coming out this morning that Ali is fit to bat tomorrow but may not be fit to bowl, will they start Crane and play Ali purely as a batsman?
Real problems for England if true also if Crane plays if he is not taking wickets is he capable of blocking an end to give the seamers a decent breather.
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Real problems for England if true also if Crane plays if he is not taking wickets is he capable of blocking an end to give the seamers a decent breather.
Having seen plenty of him - no
He's a 20 year old leg spinner, while a great prospect he's prone to the off full bunger or half tracker (but what young leg spinner hasn't been?)
All that said, he does have a knack of making things happen and taking poles
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I didn't watch it all,no-was merely speculating as to why Anderson brought it up- is that ok by you?
Stating rules and accusations of illegal bowling I would say is more than speculation
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Pick Crane - he won't get any better on the sidelines and we'll probably need the variety in our attack. Just manage him well in the game situations to avoid a Bryce McGain situation.
Don't know how you squeeze him in though?
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If Ali can't bowl I presume we'd go with 4 seamers plus some of Root/Malan to fill in with a few overs.
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James Vince and his dibbly dobblers
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Pick KP
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Sacrifice Ball if Crane is coming in. If it is the most seamer friendly wicket, Anderson Broad and Woakes should be enough. If its not we're on an absolute hiding for the series anyway!
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Crane wont play.
http://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/12123/11150871/moeen-ali-may-not-bowl-in-second-ashes-test-due-to-finger-injury-craig-overton-added-to-squad (http://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/12123/11150871/moeen-ali-may-not-bowl-in-second-ashes-test-due-to-finger-injury-craig-overton-added-to-squad)
Strange not to add him if Ali cant bowl.
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if the Aussies must
dish it out but keep it to banter not personal no true cricket fan wants to hear comments such as get ready for a broken arm a remark a certain Aussie is credited with
They dont? :(
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To be fair to the Aussies... That's you manno :)
That remark senior is referring to was a one off and acknowledged by all ,and most of all by Clarke, to be bang out of order and did apologise.
That sort of incident is not the norm even in an ashes battle.
Personally I'd like to see England just crack on and get on with on the pitch, test cricket is tough and if he boot was on the other foot we might be testing the middle of the pitch, but aside from Harmison and maybe wood, no one for us has been quick enough for England.
On another note the Adelaide stadium under lights with a red sky looked fantastic.
Before we know it their grounds will be nearly as good as ours. :)
There's a lot riding on the next 4 or 5 days, I think we will fight back I'm just not sure if we have the quality.
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If we only play 4 bowlers there is no way one of them will be a 20-year-old legger. Crane only plays if Ali7Stokes is in the side and can bowl.
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Ali doesn't exactly hold an end up whilst the quick rest, or take wickets in these conditions so what have we got to lose with Crane. I'd wager he'd take more wickets than Ali, and that's more important than going at 3 an over when our quick should be doing must the damage and keeping it tight
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Ali doesn't exactly hold an end up whilst the quick rest, or take wickets in these conditions so what have we got to lose with Crane. I'd wager he'd take more wickets than Ali, and that's more important than going at 3 an over when our quick should be doing must the damage and keeping it tight
What we have to lose is whoever we drop to make space for him, not sure we can pick 12 just because Ali isn't fit to bowl.
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https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/526171/england-name-12-man-squad-for-second-ashes-test (https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/526171/england-name-12-man-squad-for-second-ashes-test)
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https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/526171/england-name-12-man-squad-for-second-ashes-test (https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/526171/england-name-12-man-squad-for-second-ashes-test)
Stokes listed in the squad on the ECB website? :o :o :o
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Stokes listed in the squad on the ECB website? :o :o :o
he was never removed from the squad, just not available for selection at the time as far as i understand it, finn was called up as cover (then curran) but stokes was never removed from the squad
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I reckon eng would be best off backing woakes to come good in the day/night , pink ball , adelaide conditions . Anderson and broad should have big games there too . Pick Ali at 8 for this game and hope hes able to bowl....but if he doesn't, don't sweat , just have root bowl a lot of overs . Then pick another batsman at 6 ....anyone but ballance.
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I don't think we have another specialist batsman in the squad to bat 6 apart from gaz ballance :)
We might be able to bring across one from the lions but if he jumped over Gaz it looks a bit.....well....daft.
The tricky thing is of course if it goes really well you don't need 4 seamers, you need 3 plus a good spinner
Australia have Starc,Cummins and Hazlewood who are all good, so a forth one would not bowl much.as if he did the game is probably over.
Personally I think for this match I would have liked another spinner on tour but would go for crane . It's a must win this to keep the series alive.
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I don't think we have another specialist batsman in the squad to bat 6 apart from gaz ballance :)
Foakes?
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If we are picking Ali as a specialist batsman, would we not be better batting Bairstow five and giving Foakes the gloves?
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Foakes?
Ah you mean JB in the top 6 and Foakes as the batsman keeper..
Butch on the sky review very very keen to get England to change their thinking on this. He did seem to be on his own with that view thou.
Def an idea, we are not exactly overrun with quality batsmen are we? The days of cook,Trott and KP and then Bell are long gone.
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brinign Foakes in and letting Bairstow play as a bat does make better sense, but i sense its too far outside the box for boring england to consider
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'We'll have a bowl'
Jesus Christ
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Surprised they didnt think of batting first, try to make a solid start before the lights come on. History says 2 from 2 bowling first with the pink ball but that pales in comparison to victories in Adelaide after choosing to bowl.....
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I haven’t seen Foakes with the gloves much but JB is a decent keeper, don’t understand the idea of bringing in Foakes
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Oh ffs!
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That was amazing
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I haven’t seen Foakes with the gloves much but JB is a decent keeper, don’t understand the idea of bringing in Foakes
Me either, I presume it’d be for Malan, so either people think Foakes is a better bat than him, or that YJB will score so many more runs that it will more than bridge the difference and then some.
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Overton looks threatening even though it seems he is struggling with a bit of rhythm. Not hitting the crease very well and pace is early 80s but looks uncomfortable for the batsmen.
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Matter of time getting khawajas wicket. Looking clueless against Ali. His back leg is gonna cause him trouble all over the world no wonder he only really plays in Australia.
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No surprise to Warner flapping like that, come on!
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Woakes!
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Woakes!
Well done Chris boy! Like the attacking fields from England, we have to get wickets
Ashes breakfast 2 croissants and a black coffee what's everyone else got?
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Nice touch from the England boys paying their respects to Russ #RIPRussEvans
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Well done Chris boy! Like the attacking fields from England, we have to get wickets
Ashes breakfast 2 croissants and a black coffee what's everyone else got?
I’m not even out of bed yet.... let alone considering breakfast, but it’s likely to be toast with marmite and a coffee!
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Awful drop is awful
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Suddenly dying to see Broad mankad Smith, imagine the chaos.
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Not sure what broad was mouthing off at Smith about. Seemed to get under his skin though.
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The extended final session will be interesting. ...if eng get significant movement with the ball it will make oz nervous and eng confident. If oz get through it then there's a great chance of setting up the test with a big first innings total.
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Cmon jimmy!!!! Get in
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Just the start they needed to the final session
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Perfect
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No surprise Khawaja is out we should never have let him get 53 I hope that doesn't come back to bite us. Hoping someone bowls Smith a yorker in this session.
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I'd be saving my yorkers for handscomb
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Broads fired up!!
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I'd be saving my yorkers for handscomb
True. Just been nice to see us give Smith an hour of short stuff with the odd yorker thrown in. We seem to keep going to the same plan whenever Smith is in. Even if we had a heavy leg side field and bowled very straight to him. Seems to easy for him outside off stump when the ball isn't doing a whole lot.
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It'll be interesting if these two are still in when ali comes back on . Australias two best players of spin will be a challenge for him atm .
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It'll be interesting if these two are still in when ali comes back on . Australias two best players of spin will be a challenge for him atm .
Ali seems to have recovered from his injury pretty well. Was getting a bit of drift in that first spell.
Handscomb at this rate might not survive until Ali bowls his head is all over the place.
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OVERTON YOU BEAUTY
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What a maiden test wicket for Overton! Steve Smith bowled!
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Ugh, did it have to be Overton?
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Well done Overton, off the mark. Decent player to get as your first victim.
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Well done, good ball . To be fair he has bowled a better line and length than ball did in the last match
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Looked a decent ball! Must be one of the only balls we have bowled to Smith that looked to be hitting the stumps. Listening to talk sport a couple of hours ago and harmison was getting stuck into Overton but Overton actually reminds me of harmison a bit.
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If handscombe goes back any further he will be outside the stadium
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Cant see handsomb lasting too long, looks like lyon batting right now, thought it was lyon for a second
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Poms right on top now .may be a lot of rollercoaster cricket like last test .
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Need to get the Aussies 6 down I reckon to just edge ahead. Goes without saying, Important not to let things drift now and allow Handscombe and Marsh to build a partnership- oops I just said it!
Looks to be another wicket where it is tough to score at a decent lick.
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Am I missing something? Why is Ali bowling under lights when it’s doing a bit
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Boozy, violent, whiny. Now we can add racist to the list. :D
England debutant got off lightly for racial blunder - The Age
https://apple.news/ARBqI2GLPTXy_8G0ggzxTxg
Aussie media throwing as much mud as they can.
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Boozy, violent, whiny. Now we can add racist to the list. :D
England debutant got off lightly for racial blunder - The Age
https://apple.news/ARBqI2GLPTXy_8G0ggzxTxg
Aussie media throwing as much mud as they can.
Aussies are so tiresome!
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Nice Atomic on show.
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Aussies day - England haven’t bowled well, far too short.
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2 set batsman, oldish ball, platform set. Only 4 down, not to mention they were sent in. Say what you want about Handscomb, but the ability to make ugly runs is an important one. Aussies win day 1.
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2 set batsman, oldish ball, platform set. Only 4 down, not to mention they were sent in. Say what you want about Handscomb, but the ability to make ugly runs is an important one. Aussies win day 1.
The ball’s one over old?
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The ball’s one over old?
Apologies, must have missed them taking the new ball.
Still Australias day.
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Eng had a chance to finish well on top with another wicket or 2 . As it stands its dead even . If eng get new ball wickets they could roll oz for 270. If oz bat through the first hour then we could wind up with close to 400.
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Boozy, violent, whiny. Now we can add racist to the list. :D
England debutant got off lightly for racial blunder - The Age
https://apple.news/ARBqI2GLPTXy_8G0ggzxTxg
Aussie media throwing as much mud as they can.
Aussies are so tiresome!
A) It's not just the Aussies that brought this up
B) We shouldn't be writing off what he did and I, for one, find it hard to cheer for an unapologetic racist.
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Apologies, must have missed them taking the new ball.
Still Australias day.
Nah, it's pretty even at the moment. 200-ish for 4 and the new ball has just been taken. Couple of wickets to start tomorrow's play and England will be on top.
Yeah you hope to take more than four wickets after inserting the opposition but the Australian run rate means that they didn't run away with it today.
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Eng had a chance to finish well on top with another wicket or 2 . As it stands its dead even . If eng get new ball wickets they could roll oz for 270. If oz bat through the first hour then we could wind up with close to 400.
If the Aussies score 400, they’ll also be bowling with the new ball under lights in that last session and it could be complete carnage. The rain made sure England didn’t have that 10 over period under lights with a new ball
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If the Aussies score 400, they’ll also be bowling with the new ball under lights in that last session and it could be complete carnage. The rain made sure England didn’t have that 10 over period under lights with a new ball
Exactly what i was thinking....timing of when an innings finishes is so much more influential in a pink ball day nighter .
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If the Aussies score 400, they’ll also be bowling with the new ball under lights in that last session and it could be complete carnage. The rain made sure England didn’t have that 10 over period under lights with a new ball
Yep rain delay spiked Englands new ball bowling plans Anderson and Brosd bowling after tea with the ball 79 overs old not something you see often.
Boycott on commentary unimpressed with Woakes taking the pressure off the Aussies leaking runs down the leg side.
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Yep rain delay spiked Englands new ball bowling plans Anderson and Brosd bowling after tea with the ball 79 overs old not something you see often.
Boycott on commentary unimpressed with Woakes taking the pressure off the Aussies leaking runs down the leg side.
Haha come on Alan, try to go a day without singling Woakes out!
Unless you missed it, he also took a pretty key wicket! I'll happily let him leak a few runs to see Warner back in the dressing room
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Haha come on Alan, try to go a day without singling Woakes out!
Unless you missed it, he also took a pretty key wicket! I'll happily let him leak a few runs to see Warner back in the dressing room
And he ran Bancroft out. By my reckoning that means he was involved in 2 of the 4 wickets taken today...
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Haha come on Alan, try to go a day without singling Woakes out!
Unless you missed it, he also took a pretty key wicket! I'll happily let him leak a few runs to see Warner back in the dressing room
Off course we would Adam Boycott was referring to the period after Anderson and Broad bowled tight but having watched It Warmers wicket was well tipical Warner
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And he ran Bancroft out. By my reckoning that means he was involved in 2 of the 4 wickets taken today...
Excellent runout . Bancroft was so far down the track he had time to take aim he still needs to work on how not to leak runs and how to take Aussie wickets though....
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Excellent runout . Bancroft was so far down the track he had time to take aim he still needs to work on how not to leak runs and how to take Aussie wickets though....
Pretty much like every seamer to have played for England since 1981!!
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Having actually watched it, Woakes mostly bowled pretty well. He was all over Handscomb but couldn't find the killer ball, just a little too far over when he angled the ball in and hence the couple that went down to fine leg.
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Woakes bowled pretty good, could of had a couple of wickets rather than one. Much better than the last test match....the wicket seemed to lack a bit of bounce , The Aussies have that extra pace let's see if this is a quick track, to me it looks very much like an English wicket.
I think with what edge is saying about Woakes he seems to bowl naturally slightly bringing the ball back and tries to hit the length rather than just put there.
That may limit any outswing which generally gets wickets as the ball is going towards the catchers. I'm not sure Woakes can still take it away to the slips.
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Yes Broady!
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Yes Marshy!
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I'm calling this now, 4 or 5 nil. Lower order contributions from Australia, England don't have any mongrel (to coin a phrase!).
Can't see our batting being consistent over the four tests. Sorry for the early morning doom and gloom!
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Marsh and Cummins are dragging it out for Australia. Eng really need to get the last 3 wickets quickly.
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Credit to Tim Paine for taking this game away from england, swung the momentum at the most critical point.
Aussie selectors would be feeling pretty good about themselves right now...
Better than Joe Root would be anyway.
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England holding hands in the field. Cute.
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Oh Vince .. what have you done! Cook had it in his hand until Vince ran into him and Marsh gets yet another life!
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Yes Marshy!
Never thought I'd see the day but....s,marsh has earned my respect . Big ups on a top knock . Well batted paine and cummins too . 400+ with eng batting under lights against the new ball - the series could be all over in a couple hours as long as the oz bowlers dont bowl like crap .
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Yep. Was completely against the recall. Happy to be completely wrong.
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England bowlers very poor again before dinner... I thought Woakes was average at best... Overton has bowled well most of the time
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Aus deeclare most important England innings of the series coming uo
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Series is hanging by a thread fir eng....they need to bat way out of their skins.
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Worked out perfectly for aus. New ball under lights, it’s going to be carnage. 5 down I see it.
Aussie bowlers will definitley pitch it up more than the English
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Could be brutal here for eng.
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They need to bat more positive than they bowled.... After Broad and Anderson bowled well first up this morning everything after that was negative
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Hats off to Marsh, bad day for ENGLAND thus far
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Why did Root put Aus to bat first?
Root is not captain material. Benji should be captain. Root and Cook should focus on run records.
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Shaun Marsh paced his innings very well, well played
Like many games we England fans watch, there does not look much in the pitch...only when there is extra pace or height on the ball do you get more out of it, the Aussie bowlers upping the pace already.
It's a nervous couple of hours now...I just don't think myself we have 400 runs in the whole team to get parity.
Hope I'm wrong :)
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Bit of wood glue will fix that kippax a treat! Not
Cooks struggling with Starc
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Bit of wood glue will fix that kippax a treat! Not
One for the wood burner
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@ppccopener - Pitch has good bounce. Moeen Ali's balls had Bairstow jumping up behind the wickets to take them. Lyon should be coming on to bowl very soon.
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Why did Root put Aus to bat first?
Root is not captain material. Benji should be captain. Root and Cook should focus on run records.
Away series against arch-rivals isn't the best time to judge Root's captaincy. He did set aggressive field placing and had fielders in catching positions. Unfortunately they either dropped the catch or ran into another fielder - so its not exactly Root's fault. England's fielding need to be a little sharp. Otherwise its just bowlers working very hard with no results.
Marsh, Paine, Cummins - all had lot of scares while batting. Paine survived three LBW and reviewed two of them to survive. Marsh had his fair share too. It wasn't a very confident start, but they took their time to settle in and score the runs. English batsman should look to do the same.
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@ppccopener - Pitch has a good bounce. Moeen Ali's balls had Bairstow jumping up behind the wickets to take them. Lyon should be coming on to bowl very soon.
Yes lyon has bowled a very good line to our left handers, he seems to get more purchase on the ball than Ali.
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I must rant...
Two left handers opening
No variety in the pace attack. In fact no pace in the pace attack
No specialist spinner to offer control at any stage
Stokes being unavailable (rightly)
Picking left handers galore for Lyon to knock over
It’s easy now but surely we should have taken Leach
Cook
Roy (with the role of having a biff)
Stoneman
Root
Hales (Not left handed)
Bairstow
Ali
Plunkett
Leach
Broad
Anderson
Woakes for Broad/Anderson
Wood for Plunkett
Vince for Roy/Hales
Rant over - cue massive tons for Cook/Stoneman/Vince
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I see Cooks bat has a shoulder cut off
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Wooooo ! Stoneman and a review gone . Massive.
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First one to bite the dust - Stoneman.
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No chance with 90 plus, thought stoneman was on for a few
This is what England need, not the plodders we have
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I must rant...
Two left handers opening
No variety in the pace attack. In fact no pace in the pace attack
No specialist spinner to offer control at any stage
Stokes being unavailable (rightly)
Picking left handers galore for Lyon to knock over
Rant over - cue massive tons for Cook/Stoneman/Vince
I would say bowlers are getting hammered because the fielders aren't hanging on to the half chances.
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Amazing what happens when you pitch the ball up
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I must rant...
Two left handers opening
No variety in the pace attack. In fact no pace in the pace attack
No specialist spinner to offer control at any stage
Stokes being unavailable (rightly)
Picking left handers galore for Lyon to knock over
It’s easy now but surely we should have taken Leach
Cook
Roy (with the role of having a biff)
Stoneman
Root
Hales (Not left handed)
Bairstow
Ali
Plunkett
Leach
Broad
Anderson
Woakes for Broad/Anderson
Wood for Plunkett
Vince for Roy/Hales
Rant over - cue massive tons for Cook/Stoneman/Vince
"Cue massive tons for cook/stoneman/vince"
I think you'll be pretty safe with that not happening this test . :D
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Amazing what happens when you pitch the ball up
And you would’ve thought with broad and Anderson’s experience they would’ve done the same. Green top bully jimmy ;)
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Starcs pace is up too...fastest so far 151kph (93.8mph)
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Oh no ! Bloody rain coming to save england ! :D
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The difference is the extra pace.
And I don't care how many dis likes I get for this post, it's pouring down and it needs to keep raining.
0-2 down we can't get back and the ashes are gone
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What a shambolic way to put covers on!
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England are bang average
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England are bang average
Thats ok, so was your saviour...... :D
http://www.espncricinfo.com/video/clip?id=21649381 (http://www.espncricinfo.com/video/clip?id=21649381)
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Thats ok, so was your saviour...... :D
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/video/clip?id=21649381[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/video/clip?id=21649381[/url])
Ouch ....pretty poor dismissal that .
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The days play is over early :( :(
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Ouch ....pretty poor dismissal that .
He’s not the messiah, he’s a very naughty boy
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He’s not the messiah, he’s a very naughty boy
:D :D :D :D :D
....and the post of the year award goes to ....
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Having actually watched it, Woakes mostly bowled pretty well. He was all over Handscomb but couldn't find the killer ball, just a little too far over when he angled the ball in and hence the couple that went down to fine leg.
I am with Boycott on this one wouldnt call leaking runs on day one after your opening bowlers have kept it tight is bowling pretty well also on day two unlike Broad Anderson and. Overton Woakes never looked like getting a wicket.
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The Australian bowlers have bowled a bit fuller, with a bit of extra pace look like they might get more out of this wicket
We are going to have to take time out of the game and try to bat time,for however long it takes try to get close to a reasonable score.
i don't think we have bowled that badly, but if you are in the field for 100 overs plus there are going to be some bad balls.
Overton seemed to pitch it up a bit more for a guy 6 foot five was good going. Woakes did not bowl his best true, but he is still our best bet after broad and Anderson, he absolutely should of had another wicket when cook and Stoneman collided and messed up that catch behind.
Incidentally I wonder how many of the forum think Root made the wrong call at the toss, he seems to be getting stick in the press.
I thought he made a brave call myself, whatever way he turns at the moment he does not have any firepower to fight back with-so he is stuck whether he bats or bowls first.
Mo Ali is not bowling that well, can't see how he is fully fit...
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Root looked at the cloud covered sky and said we will have a bowl Ali has a glued cut on his finger Overton on debut after Broad and Anderson what did he think his bowlers were capable of or maybe he didnt trust his batters to bat long we know the saying especially in OZ win the toss think about bowling and have a bat again proves to be true
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Sorry guys we are going to get rolled later I fear...Please prove me wrong!
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Bye bye Vince..
Hazlewood looking much more potent this test.
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Joker Vince is gone.
Him and Malan are the biggest joke of selections I’ve ever seen.
Was at the ground yesterday and Vince looked like getting out every ball.
Rather play Jason Roy than this guy.
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Full to Root. Gone!
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Malan going very soon
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Aleem Dar lol what a joke
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Lyon opens his account with Cook!
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Away series against arch-rivals isn't the best time to judge Root's captaincy. He did set aggressive field placing and had fielders in catching positions. Unfortunately they either dropped the catch or ran into another fielder - so its not exactly Root's fault. England's fielding need to be a little sharp. Otherwise its just bowlers working very hard with no results.
Really? If not now , then when? Against Bhutan?
Rest are excuses. He is the captain and made a lousy toss decision. He should get to know his team better.
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Joke Malan is gone absolutely out of his depth in international cricket.
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Really? If not now , then when? Against Bhutan?
Rest are excuses. He is the captain and made a lousy toss decision. He should get to know his team better.
Against Bhutan would be nice :D.
Most away series the home team is likely to win. Overcoming that odds and beating the opponent team requires a team which is firing on all cylinders and a very good captain. I feel that England have the latter but the former is not happening. Missing out on star players and fielding lapse is dragging them down.
Toss wasn't a bad call. There was a bit of swing and I guess he wanted to make early inroads into the Aussie batting.
Getting to know the team better - This is something Root can improve on. Being England's captain is not an easy task. Given the history with Cook & KP saga, you never know what is the stress level for Root as a captain ;)
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Can we lock this thread now please Mods.
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Lyon claims his second victim. Eng losing wickets at a steady pace - Ali gone ... return catch to Lyon.
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Ali caught in two minds but a very good catch
I like Mo but there a difference playing as a batsman and number 7 or 8 where runs are a bonus. I think Bairstow and him are going to have to swap places
But it looks like a wicket every couple of overs at the moment
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But it looks like a wicket every couple of overs at the moment
U r right. Bairstow just looped it back to Starc.
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Yep half hearted shot again. We are too timid.
On the plus side Woakes actually looks like he is capable of scoring some runs and staying there for a while.
Ashes breakfast watch: black coffee, peanut butter on toast.
I feel I need something stronger thou :)
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I don’t understand why guys like hales, or Jason Roy don’t get consideration over Malan etc...granted they’re aggressive batsman but they get the runs
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I don’t understand why guys like hales, or Jason Roy don’t get consideration over Malan etc...granted they’re aggressive batsman but they get the runs
England selectors are clueless.
Stoneman was hit on the pads nonstop last night and he looked like a sitting duck from the stadium.
Vince looks more like a fisherman than a batsman and can barely hit a single leg side shot.
Malan is the worst of the lot, he should stick to t20 leagues cos he looks like a rabbit lost in the headlights.
Does not know what to do at all while getting dominated ball after ball.
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The English one day side is actually world class.
This test lineup is a travesty.
At least Overton is batting better than both Vince and Stoneman.
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Woakes/Overton looking brilliant just goes to show how useless the top and middle order has been.
Showing this clown fiesta Australian attack that their barbaric short pitch mediocre bowling is just wasting energy and getting them into stress fracture territory.
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Nice to watch a bit of fight from some English batsmen.
Woakes and Overton showing the top order how it’s done!
They’ve both earnt the right to score by braving the barrage!
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At last some good news...
The England jumpers match the shirts & trousers.
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Oh Woakes :(
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Woakes/Overton looking brilliant just goes to show how useless the top and middle order has been.
Showing this clown fiesta Australian attack that their barbaric short pitch mediocre bowling is just wasting energy and getting them into stress fracture territory.
Clown Fiesta? Only one side out on that feild has earned that title, and it isnt Australia. As for the "barbaric short pitched mediocre bowling".. Id say they will keep bowling that way as long as the more mediocre batting lineup keeps allowing it to work...
As i say that another barbaric short ball accounts for another mediocre batsman..
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Injuries incoming for Aussie bowlers.
:)
Hazel wood dispatched effortlessly
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All well and good saying Vince, Stoneman and Malan aren’t good enough, but it’s not like they’ve gone any worse than Cook, Root and Bairstow so far, is it!
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Woakes/Overton looking brilliant just goes to show how useless the top and middle order has been.
Showing this clown fiesta Australian attack that their barbaric short pitch mediocre bowling is just wasting energy and getting them into stress fracture territory.
Sir Geoffrey, is that you?
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Against Bhutan would be nice :D.
Most away series the home team is likely to win. Overcoming that odds and beating the opponent team requires a team which is firing on all cylinders and a very good captain. I feel that England have the latter but the former is not happening. Missing out on star players and fielding lapse is dragging them down.
Toss wasn't a bad call. There was a bit of swing and I guess he wanted to make early inroads into the Aussie batting.
Getting to know the team better - This is something Root can improve on. Being England's captain is not an easy task. Given the history with Cook & KP saga, you never know what is the stress level for Root as a captain ;)
I don’t think Root looks like he has a clue captaining a test team... excellent batsman... poor captain... poor field placement... negative... He has 2 world class bowlers ( that hurts) 1 good up and coming bowler ( Overton) 1 mediocre bowler at best (Woakes - at least in this series so far ) and one poor excuse for a spinner
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Absolutely shambolic
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Overton might as well chance his arm now, what a shambles.
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Oh well.
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Overton is the highest scorer in England's first innings. Quite surprising! I thought Woakes might go on to get a 50.
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Bye bye Vince..
Hazlewood looking much more potent this test.
That's the fastest ive seen him bowl....and just about the slowest ive seen cummins bowl.
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I don’t think Root looks like he has a clue captaining a test team... excellent batsman... poor captain... poor field placement... negative... He has 2 world class bowlers ( that hurts) 1 good up and coming bowler ( Overton) 1 mediocre bowler at best (Woakes - at least in this series so far ) and one poor excuse for a spinner
To an extent your field placing and strategy revolves around how good your bowlers are. As you have pointed out, Root is playing around the fact that only a few of his bowlers are good. I am not sure there is much any captain (Even if it's not Root) can do right now. I would say he is playing with the team he has. He might as well hope for Stokes & Wood to show up soon.
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Should have enforced the follow on ....strike while the irons hot and the batsmens not !
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Joe Roots heads gone....what was that review???
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Yes Jimmy!
Ball seems to be talking a bit- opportunity here to get back into the Test Match if we can get the Aussies 5 down tonight?
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Yes Jimmy!
Ball seems to be talking a bit- opportunity here to get back into the Test Match if we can get the Aussies 5 down tonight?
I'm not normally one to be negative but I think they've probably already got enough unless England seriously get their act together with the bat. Even if we somehow bowl Australia out for under 100 can you see us chasing over 300 to win?
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I'm not normally one to be negative but I think they've probably already got enough unless England seriously get their act together with the bat. Even if we somehow bowl Australia out for under 100 can you see us chasing over 300 to win?
Probably not!Just saw a sudden ray of hope...
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It’s the hope that makes it so unbearable
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Probably not!Just saw a sudden ray of hope...
Good man! Stiff upper lip and all that.
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Any ray of hope gone now- needed them 25-5 at this stage.
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Thought warner might look to attack and take the game away from england like he use to. Last couple of tours hes decided to dig in
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Come on!!
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Smith not enforcing the follow on is a worse decision that root electing to bowl first....by a long way .
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That looked absolutely plumb
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Need(ed) all these marginal things to go our way to get back into this, like the Smith LBW and Handscombs nick first ball. Top fight they've shown but unless they keep it up for 2 days it's too late.
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That looked absolutely plumb
Not again surely......
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That was a good umpire call!
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YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
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If Smith had enforced the follow on,it could be Engaged 50-4 and it's game over. Poor decision from Smith.
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If Smith had enforced the follow on,it could be England 50-4 and it's game over. Poor decision from Smith. Utterly clueless as a captain!;)
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If Smith had enforced the follow on,it could be Engaged 50-4 and it's game over. Poor decision from Smith.
I'd be inclined to agree, but I presume his logic would be they can grind England's bowlers and moral into the dirt before having them 50-4 tomorrow night.
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Mental surrender showing cowardice from Lyon in the end .
The fortress about to break :)
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#DropWoakes
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Woakes and Anderson showed what they could do with a moving ball, why didn't they pitch the damn thing up in the first dig?
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I think the depressing thing is the actual gulf between the brand that is being marketed and the actual product…..
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I think the depressing thing is the actual gulf between the brand that is being marketed and the actual product…..
Neither are fantastic sides (not sure anyone is at the moment, despite Indias record-equalling run) but they don't need to be to produce good matches.
They haven't managed that yet either but it's been threatened at times.
On a different note, what is the answer to Lyon, get rid of some of them for a right-hander. That really only leaves us with Foakes in for Malan. Is there anyone in the Lions side worth a spot. Looks a mistake having yet another leftie in Ballance as the only back up btter.
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Malan has played better than Root and Bairstow so far though... The crappest of the top order left handers has been Cook.
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#DropWoakes
He must have heard Boycott on commentary after his first two overs in the second innings stating he needed to up his game looked a different bowler when he pitch the ball up Anderson although only one wicket showed what he can still do swing the ball in and out. Big mistake by Smith not enforcing the follow on allowing English seamers to bowl in near UK conditions just barmy.
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Malan has played better than Root and Bairstow so far though... The crappest of the top order left handers has been Cook.
Not really an option to drop an opener though. Really if they want a LH out for a RH, it's Malan or Ali. Maybe Ali is an option if Stokes is back, but then that's yet another LH.
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Smith for moron of the year award !?
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Unless they fail to win the match then it'll be forgotten before the end of the game.
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Not really an option to drop an opener though. Really if they want a LH out for a Rh, it's Malan or Ali. Maybe Ali is an option if Stokes is back, but then that's yet another LH.
The last however how long has shown that changing batsmen is essentially rearranging deck chairs and playing a nice jaunty number as the ship goes down.
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I don't like it that the evening session in day/ night Test is already assumed to be a bad one for batting. Test cricket needs to keep its integrity, in my opinion.
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The last however how long has shown that changing batsmen is essentially rearranging deck chairs and playing a nice jaunty number as the ship goes down.
Most probably, but it beats hiding in the hold crying.
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Someone with character needed - I'd be flying in big Samit Patel if we want a change, bring him in for Ali if Ali can't bowl properly.
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Someone with character needed - I'd be flying in big Samit Patel if we want a change, bring him in for Ali if Ali can't bowl properly.
Basher Ben?
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Smith not enforcing the follow on is a worse decision that root electing to bowl first....by a long way .
Probably. Can understand his reluctance though. Surely Aussie have enough credits to limp home?
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ECB Board confirms Hales can play for England
https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/530557 (https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/530557)
Start of things to come?
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Confirmation that he'll play in the ODI series and wouldn't read too much more into it.
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Confirmation that he'll play in the ODI series and wouldn't read too much more into it.
I was thinking more to do with Stokes. i.e could he be cleared since Hales was? England side need a good news story before the series is done with.
Cant say I'm fussed about Hales but never heard if his case went to the CPS
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I can't imagine Hales would have dug very deep for the cause today.
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I was thinking more to do with Stokes. i.e could he be cleared since Hales was? England side need a good news story before the series is done with.
Cant say I'm fussed about Hales but never heard if his case went to the CPS
Hales was never under investigation, he was a voluntary witness...
There's also the minor issue of CCTV footage of Stokes battering the bloke who ended up with a fractured eye socket
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I can't imagine Hales would have dug very deep for the cause today.
No need to stick the boot in
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I was thinking more to do with Stokes. i.e could he be cleared since Hales was? England side need a good news story before the series is done with.
Cant say I'm fussed about Hales but never heard if his case went to the CPS
Just to add ECB have said Ben won't be considered unless no charges by the CPS.
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No need to stick the boot in
He's just a flat track/ pavement bully.
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He's just a flat track/ pavement bully.
Glad you picked up on the play on words ;)
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Hales was never under investigation, he was a voluntary witness...
Definitely was under investigation - "Alex Hales will now be considered for England selection, following confirmation that he is no longer a suspect in relation to an incident in Bristol in September."
@Seniorplayer - source for that?
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He's just a flat track/ pavement bully.
ain't we all, if given the chance.
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Hales was never under investigation, he was a voluntary witness...
There's also the minor issue of CCTV footage of Stokes battering the bloke who ended up with a fractured eye socket
I presumed he was under investigation since he was in the same cctv footage booting somebody, could easily have caused a broken rib, punctured a lung. Situational ethics shouldn't have meant Hales avoided investigation.
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Definitely was under investigation - "Alex Hales will now be considered for England selection, following confirmation that he is no longer a suspect in relation to an incident in Bristol in September."
I must have misinterpreted something I read.
BBC article clearly states he was "not arrested, but interviewed under caution".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42222983 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42222983)
Ignore me... :-[
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I must have misinterpreted something I read.
BBC article clearly states he was "not arrested, but interviewed under caution".
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42222983[/url] ([url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42222983[/url])
Ignore me... :-[
Article states both Stokes and Hales are set to be named in the ODI squad and Hales as been cleared to be considered for selection
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Article states both Stokes and Hales have been named in the ODI squad and Hales as been cleared to be considered for selection
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42222983 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42222983)
England batsman Alex Hales will not face criminal charges over an incident outside a nightclub in Bristol in September and is available for selection, the England and Wales Cricket Board says.
He had been with all-rounder Ben Stokes, who was arrested on suspicion of causing actual bodily harm.
Hales, 28, was not arrested but was interviewed under caution by police and was not considered for selection.
He could still be punished by the ECB.
The ECB's internal disciplinary process is on hold until any criminal proceedings against Stokes are concluded.
"Alex Hales will now be considered for England selection," the ECB said in a statement.
Hales is a one-day and T20 specialist, who last played Test cricket in August 2016 and could return for the limited-overs leg of England's tour of Australia.
England will play a five-game one-day series against Australia in January, before a triangular Twenty20 series against New Zealand and Australia in February.
The ECB has also allowed Hales to play in the inaugural T20 Cricket League in Dubai from 21 to 24 December.
What happened in Bristol?
Stokes was arrested after a night out that followed England's victory over West Indies in the third one-day international.
Video footage emerged which allegedly showed him in a brawl in the early hours of the morning.
A man suffered a fractured eye socket in the incident on 25 September.
In the aftermath, Hales, who voluntarily helped police with their inquiries, was left out of the fourth ODI along with Stokes.
The ECB then announced Stokes and Hales would not be considered for selection until further notice.
On 29 November, Avon and Somerset Police said it had completed its investigation and sent the findings to the Crown Prosecution Service to decide if Stokes would be charged.
With a decision not to be made for several weeks, Stokes seems unlikely to play in England's current Ashes series in Australia.
However, he can play domestic cricket in any country and signed for Canterbury last week after travelling to New Zealand to visit his family.
Where does it say Stokes is in the ODI squad? ???
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Different article Cam Guardian online
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Different article Cam Guardian online
Cheers mate
Still keeping my fingers crossed he makes at least part of the tour then!
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Someone with character needed - I'd be flying in big Samit Patel if we want a change, bring him in for Ali if Ali can't bowl properly.
Ali who is England's top scorer of the series so far?
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Crikey, where'd England get that movement from?
Overton batted well, shame the 'batters' didn't turn up to help
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I'm not going to bang the drum for Woakes any longer, I'm not saying we are going to win I'm not saying we are even going to get a draw. I respect everyone on the forums opinion apart from that South Africa bloke who wound everybody up :)
Woakes for 30 odd it's not a hundred but surely now it can be seen how Woakes and Overton batted just showed a little bit of fight and we just got some momentum going our way for a while.
It's not much but that's why CW is rated by England, I actually thought he showed better technique batting 8 than some of the top order.
Then chips in with a couple of wickets. It's not massive contributions but it is significant.
Overton showed he can bat too-and we are going to need these runs down the order.
I like James Vince and Malan, but I'm not putting any money on them batting for long.
Vince needs tighten up outside off-quality bowlers will put it there 'all day long' to use an off used club phrase.
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I'm not going to bang the drum for Woakes any longer, I'm not saying we are going to win I'm not saying we are even going to get a draw. I respect everyone on the forums opinion apart from that South Africa bloke who wound everybody up :)
Woakes for 30 odd it's not a hundred but surely now it can be seen how Woakes and Overton batted just showed a little bit of fight and we just got some momentum going our way for a while.
It's not much but that's why CW is rated by England, I actually thought he showed better technique batting 8 than some of the top order.
Then chips in with a couple of wickets. It's not massive contributions but it is significant.
Overton showed he can bat too-and we are going to need these runs down the order.
I like James Vince and Malan, but I'm not putting any money on them batting for long.
Vince needs tighten up outside off-quality bowlers will put it there 'all day long' to use an off used club phrase.
Agree totally it's a pity it took CW one and half test matches to pitch the ball up and realise in OZ if you bowl short batsman stay back and whack you to the boundary.
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The two problems are, we are reliant on seam movement and swing, and our so called batters are struggling with Lyons turn and 90mph bowling
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The two problems are, we are reliant on seam movement and swing, and our so called batters are struggling with Lyons turn and 90mph bowling
Stop being so negative/realistic!!
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The two problems are, we are reliant on seam movement and swing, and our so called batters are struggling with Lyons turn and 90mph bowling
The real problem is we have only got half a batting line up and the ones we need to perform are struggling. Our bowling attack is fantastic at home where the ball swings and seams, but we lack pace for the Australian pitches. Why any of us thought we could win in Australia with such a poor batting line up is beyond me. The answer is to send @Northern monkey, he would wack a few more that Vince will
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Took your bowlers over 400 balls to remove Smith. They could only manage 10 wickets at the gabba. 12 so far here. Id be more worried about your bowling.
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If oz can make 180 ish total /lead of 400ish by half way through 2nd session I'd be feeling very confident .
What the max target eng can chase down ?
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Don't worry yourself manno it causes grey hairs :)
Be interested to see what is behind Matt priors comments regarding sledging, as he says normally it does not bother top pro's
There some bad blood between the teams and clearly England are upset with something , normally the England players don't moan about it at all
It will all come out in the wash I expect
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Hope Malan is dropped ASAP.
A sitting duck with his technique should not be near anywhere near an international side.
He’s basically looked clueless every innings so far and prior to this test series.
Can neither attack nor defend.
Warner has lost his effortless ability to hit boundaries even from defensive shots ever since the new bat regulations is a food for thought ;)
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Anything over 350 is going to be a big ask.
Im sure I sprouted a few greys watching all those lbw reviews last night...
So whats prior had to say? I thought he'd already spoken about Goats "scared eyes" comment.
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Don't worry yourself manno it causes grey hairs :)
Be interested to see what is behind Matt priors comments regarding sledging, as he says normally it does not bother top pro's
There some bad blood between the teams and clearly England are upset with something , normally the England players don't moan about it at all
It will all come out in the wash I expect
Or he's a flat track bully and this isnt a flat track.
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Warner has lost his effortless ability to hit boundaries even from defensive shots ever since the new bat regulations is a food for thought ;)
Anderson and Broad are keeping the line pretty tight. They are not giving Warner a chance to take off. DW is scoring more freely against Woakes & Ali.
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Woakes is doing it for his number one fan @Seniorplayer
(https://i.imgur.com/OoxGYtT.gif)
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An absolute peach. Him and Anderson excellent. Still don't think we've a chance but who knows eh
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We’re seeing a shift in momentum
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Good to see some fight though and a bit of control. Shows what can be done when Smith goes cheaply
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We’re seeing a shift in momentum
350 is almost certainly too much but hopefully the bowlers learn a few lessons from this innings.
For all the talk of the bowlers though, it's the batsmen that have let England down in this series. Too many people getting starts and throwing it away, they need to watch what Smith and Marsh did by grinding out the runs rather than trying to be 'aggressive' or any of that rubbish.
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If nothing else they’ve continued to put pressure on the likes of Laine, Handscomb, Khawaja and Bancroft. Now they just need to keep it up.
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Cook with his first lifeline of the day
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Oh but for that review! :(
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Does the Woakes wicket above move a lot? The batsman (marsh?) missed it by a mile and looks like he’s been done a little for pace as well? Oh how I wish at least the ashes were free to air :(
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Eng bowling was superb . Aus batting was disgusting .
I know everyone will hammer me about Handscomb . He's not looked in form at all , although its only been 3 innings ,and when you think about it , hes done no worse runs wise than evryone bar marsh in this test . I reckon he will be dropped , but i hope they stick with him because i think he'd come good in perth . But , maxwell scored another 98 today and is banging down the door , he needs a spot . Personally , I'd opt for him to replace khawaja ( although i actually want him in the side ) , but he'll likely come in for handscomb . Unfortunately, 12 doesn't go into 11 .
I think aus have been stupid and unlucky to not have had much use of the new ball at night yet....even today by the time night rolls around the ball will be 30 overs old . It may take the quicks out of the equation somewhat .
I think oz need lyon to spin us to victory , and in the form he's in it's very possible he will .
Having said that , if eng get an unlikely victory it serves smith right for not enforcing the follow on , and it serves our batsmen right for batting like lemmings .
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Oh but for that review! :(
Smith has had a shocker all round this game !
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Does the Woakes wicket above move a lot? The batsman (marsh?) missed it by a mile and looks like he’s been done a little for pace as well? Oh how I wish at least the ashes were free to air :(
Moved in a bit and there was an inside edge . Bit of a reckless shot really .
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Moved in a bit and there was an inside edge . Bit of a reckless shot really .
This test has basically been Marsh's test career in a microcosm.
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TMs moaning about virtual eye and how that pitched outside leg. Amusing the pro DRS lot moan when it goes against them
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Took your bowlers over 400 balls to remove Smith. They could only manage 10 wickets at the gabba. 12 so far here. Id be more worried about your bowling.
Aha say what? ;) Be a hell of a chase from here but there's a chance at least, feel we need a big partnership between these two probably.
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Yeah yeah i know. Gifted that session by Smith... :D
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Aha say what? ;) Be a hell of a chase from here but there's a chance at least, feel we need a big partnership between these two probably.
100% we do, ideally need these two to take us past 250. The only tiny positive is that Aus won’t have a new ball under lights but Lyon has been the most dangerous Aus bowler across the series so far for me so going to be a real, real challenge and players will need to stand up
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the way Lyon is bowling these two and Bairstow need to make 200+ between them.
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Vince needs to go back to UK now
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I'm torn between thinking we need a change in the top 5 and the realisation that the change is Ballance. My solution? Play with ten. Just add Ballance, lbw 0, to both innings
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What we certainly can't do is add yet another leftie to the top order.
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Foakes for vince, bairstow to 3 foakes slots I’m at 6/7
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Is Foakes genuinely the best RHB England have that's not in the side, or is it just because he's on the tour already?
Jennings was in the runs in the last game, and could presumably bat 3.
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Brave by root..... :o
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Is Foakes genuinely the best RHB England have that's not in the side, or is it just because he's on the tour already?
Jennings was in the runs in the last game, and could presumably bat 3.
I think he’s the best keeper after bairstow, if Johnny bats 3 foakes takes the gloves, for me bairstow would be a decent number 3 for us
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Boycott is spitting feathers about the Vince dismissal, and quite rightly too.
Yeah, he's got a lovely technique. Whoop de doo. The best player in the world at the moment looks a lot worse than most you see on a Sunday league match!
It's what's between the ears that counts at test level, and I'm afraid Vince simply doesn't have it. I think Stoneman does have it, and the Jury is still out on Malan for me.
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Why do our batsmen do the hard work,get themselves in and give it away?So many soft dismissals throughout this series, it's unbelievable! Another wicket tonight and it's game over,if not already.
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Smith!!! Arghh!!!!
Umpires call from here on in. :(
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Loving this grit from Malan
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Malan looks like he's waiting to be dismissed!
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Loving this grit from Malan
I've been impressed with his application through his fledgling test career so far, needs to make it count though and keep going! Come on lads!
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Joe Root has now made a half-century in 14 of his last 15 Test matches.
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Please can Root pretend he's on 0 now
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Please can Root pretend he's on 0 now
And please can he make a first ball duck. :D
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Malan looks like he's waiting to be dismissed!
.............. and he starts teeing off!
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runs flowing! not the most convincing but runs are runs
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Less than 200 needed now!
Dare we start to dream?
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I love the Barmy Army so much. Press T to pay respects.
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From Cricnfo:
In this series Nathan Lyon has 9 wickets and averages 14.33 against Left handed batsmen while he has 1 wicket and averages 108 against Right handed batsmen.
Shirley we have to get Bairstow in before Moeen.
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From the BBC live text:
Tim Paine had a word with Joe Root in between overs there.Both players went wandering away from the stump mic, but Root looked thoroughly irked at him and Handscomb, and Smith asked Root what was up.
Anyone who's watching able to shed any light on what's going on? ???
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PEACH!
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start the car.
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Ah balls
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Brave choice of nightwatchman.
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Brave choice of nightwatchman.
He was arguably England's best batsman in the first innings, just ask @Seniorplayer
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Bit of a nut from Cummings.
Good grit and determination from Malan but we need more from a No5, keeps getting starts but hasn’t converted any telling scores in any of the tests he has played in.
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He was arguably England's best batsman in the first innings, just ask @Seniorplayer
Indeed, I like the idea that if he survives the night we basically have a batter in tomorrow when we start again, but if he gets done tonight it's a much bigger loss than say Anderson.
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Shirley we have to get Bairstow in before Moeen.
Not sure they'll change, and don't call me Shirley.
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Woakes does have previous of volunteering to be night watchman as he sees it as his best chance of batting higher, big fan of that attitude.
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Another test/day with a big first hour/session.
England survive the first hour unscathed, the win could be possible. lose 1 (root) I think it'll be over quickly.
Been a great 2nd test, really came to life after Smith decided not to follow on and wickets fell under lights.
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176-4 at stumps
England need 177 with 6 wickets in hand.
Knife edge stuff. 2nd new nut could be the deciding factor in this one
You don't get this kind of excitement in T20's do you!
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P.S
For anyone in favour of 4 day Tests, please see this match...
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Nobody wants 4day test matches!
Be a poor show if this was a draw. Because it stops now. The 5th day is important.
Be a big innings from England to win still. Lots of runs needed. But even getting close would be good for moral. We never looked like being close to Smith started making dodgy decisions......
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(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/624/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2017/12/5/babb048d-393e-4010-8558-1d5cd546737e.jpg)
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I assume you're all forgetting that in a 4 day test, there would be more overs per day, so we'd be further along in the game at this point?
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England one partnership away from winning this!
Australia will not have the luxury of having the new ball under lights - smith hasn't got his tactics right
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I assume you're all forgetting that in a 4 day test, there would be more overs per day, so we'd be further along in the game at this point?
How are you planning on getting more overs into this day start at 7am? First break would be elevenses??
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Not sure they'll change, and don't call me Shirley.
I'm not either, but they should for sure. We all make mistakes, recognising and correcting them quickly is the key.
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big big big session first up tomorrow but in root woakes ali bairstow and overton we have the batting to do this, and with ali the only recognised lefty to come lyon may not be as much as a threat!
still australia game to lose but im hopeful we can do something special,
if we get close i think it will give us a great boost to hopefully get something out of the series, whatever the result tomorrow the 3rd test at the WACA is vital!
COME ON ENGLAND
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big big big session first up tomorrow but in root woakes ali bairstow and overton we have the batting to do this, and with ali the only recognised lefty to come lyon may not be as much as a threat!
still australia game to lose but im hopeful we can do something special,
if we get close i think it will give us a great boost to hopefully get something out of the series, whatever the result tomorrow the 3rd test at the WACA is vital!
COME ON ENGLAND
Think I'll be adopting my 2 years olds bedtime tonight and getting up at 4.30.
If England lose tomorow then the Wacca is a dead rubber for me.
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Smith for moron of the year award !?
Smith your trophy is in the mail.... ;)
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How are you planning on getting more overs into this day start at 7am? First break would be elevenses??
I believe the plan is to play 105 overs in a day, rather than 90. Therefore only losing 30 overs vs a 5 day test.
15 extra overs, will just mean 30 minutes earlier start, then either another 30 minutes at the end, or squeeze the tea & lunch breaks.
I know, I know, that's too logical an answer. Silly me.
MAKE THEM PLAY 24 HOURS, 2 DAY TESTS, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH
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It’s now or never for England, we won’t come back from 0-2 down
Whatever the result we have at least fought
And ageee we want 5 day tests always!
Chris Woakes..is he any good? Discuss
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If not woakes then who?
He bends his back bowling and doesn't look bad batting
Not seen today's play yet tho, will watch the highlights tonight
Sounds like it's been an entertaining days play
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It’s now or never for England, we won’t come back from 0-2 down
Whatever the result we have at least fought
And ageee we want 5 day tests always!
Chris Woakes..is he any good? Discuss
Chris Woakes is very good and will end up with 300 + test wickets. Once Anderson retires he’ll take the new ball and show how much he can swing it in England. He was told to add 5mph on to his bowling a few years ago, went away and did it. He’s also got 9 first class 100’s
*note* I am a Warwickshire fan
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Loving the optimism on here. Good luck! :D
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Note to England fans.
The game will be over as a contest when we wake up tomorrow.
Don't waste your hope :(
Although Woakes at 6 is inspired...!
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I know I'll set the alarm for 3.00am and go back to bed at 3.20am knowing its all over :-)
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England winning this clown fiesta, you heard it here first.
Aussies demoralized
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Still laughing
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQR3fc9WAAA06wK.jpg)
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Note to England fans.
The game will be over as a contest when we wake up tomorrow.
Don't waste your hope :(
Although Woakes at 6 is inspired...!
@Buzz Stop being so bloody realistic will you! What happened to stiff upper lip, bulldog spirit and all that :D
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Anderson clearly peed off with the batters not getting enough runs hits a 50 to see us home
I might be dreaming but without hope as a fan we ain’t gone anything
Come on England!
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From here I'm actually thinking eng are more likely ...unless lyon plays a blinder .
New ball is 20 overs away, enough time for the batsmen to play themselves in .
By the time the night session comes around the game will likely be over either way .
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Barring an England collapse in the early overs of the day the 2nd new ball will probably decide the game.
if England can add say 50 before the new ball, without losing more than 1-2 wickets. Then surviving the new ball would see them very well positioned to chase down the target.
Still much rather be in Australia's position. Would give England maybe a 1 in 5 chance.
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Malan has guts I have to give him that, although he lacks skill.
Vince is just embarrassing.
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Malan has guts I have to give him that, although he lacks skill.
What I'd give to lack skill the same way Dawid Malan does...
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He has surprised me for sure malan.
And at test level guts could be more important
I like Vince but I think sir Geoffrey calls this type of batsmen million dollar players
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I like Vince but I think sir Geoffrey calls this type of batsmen million dollar players
What does that mean? He is a prima donna? Difficult?
Vince has great technique and I think he was mentored by Gary Palmer but I could be wrong about that. :)
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Vince has great technique
See Steve Smith as to why it doesn't matter.
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What does that mean? He is a prima donna? Difficult?
Vince has great technique and I think he was mentored by Gary Palmer but I could be wrong about that. :)
More as in luxury item, looks good and flashy but lacks substance underneath.
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Since when does being extremely fallible outside the off stump=having a good technique?
Vince is extremely frustrating,he looks good but is the classic 'flatters to deceive' cricketer.
Having said that,he got a pretty 80 in the first test,and being a right-hander and with no viable alternatives,has probably earned some credit in the bank.
I really hope he proves us all wrong as like nothing more than a Billy the comeback kid!
I'm sure I've heard or seen it said before somewhere,but...
Tomorrow morning,the first hour is crucial!
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See Steve Smith as to why it doesn't matter.
No. Here is why: 1. Smith has developed his technique to suit his hand-eye coordination and, most importantly, to compensate for his weaknesses so he can score runs - anybody who has played cricket and has an peculiar batting style/technique will vouch for this; 2. As a general rule, Smith's technique would not work for all batsmen simply because they don't share his weaknesses. Vince's batting technique is very clean and can be adapted by any player.
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It unfortunately cannot be adapted for Vince.
Good technique is not the be all and end all, plenty of aesthetically pleasing players have been heavily outscored by those who have a less than traditional technique, but have the requisite application and fortitude. It's easy to be suckered in by the assumption that a 'pretty' batsman is a better batsman. Who would you rather have in your team, Graeme Smith & Steve Smith or Ian Bell & Shaun Marsh?
It's more about what you've got between your ears than how nicely you hit a cover drive.
In the words of Graham Gooch, 'You're not a batsman, you're a run scorer'
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Vince has great technique and I think he was mentored by Gary Palmer but I could be wrong about that. :)
He tees off more like he was mentored by Arnold Palmer!
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England should although won’t go for a left field choice batting wise to bring into bolster the batting line up. I think we all agree needs to be a RH bat and bat in top 5. So my random choices although more likely to get a call up myself.
Sam Northeast and Jo Denley - both had fantastic last 2 seasons, Jo played International cricket in the past and Northeast is county captain and a class player. Downside play Div 2 of the championship and neither that young.
KP - we’ll never going to happen but for me should have been playing for the last 2 Years.
Alex Hales - 5 would probably suit his style of play although possible still found wanting outside off stump.
Hameed - saving grace of England in 2016 and off the radar after an awful 2017 season
????????? Discuss
Oh yea, I’m a Kent CCC fan lol
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It unfortunately cannot be adapted for Vince.
Good technique is not the be all and end all, plenty of aesthetically pleasing players have been heavily outscored by those who have a less than traditional technique, but have the requisite application and fortitude. It's easy to be suckered in by the assumption that a 'pretty' batsman is a better batsman. Who would you rather have in your team, Graeme Smith & Steve Smith or Ian Bell & Shaun Marsh?
It's more about what you've got between your ears than how nicely you hit a cover drive.
In the words of Graham Gooch, 'You're not a batsman, you're a run scorer'
There are a lot of aesthetically gifted batsmen who score tons of runs. Kane Williamson. Root. Tendulkar. Kohli. Pujara. Murali. Rohit. Amla. Quinton. ABD. etc. etc.
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There are a lot of aesthetically gifted batsmen who score tons of runs. Kane Williamson. Root. Tendulkar. Kohli. Pujara. Murali. Rohit. Amla. Quinton. ABD. etc. etc.
Agreed, but it's not the be all and end all. All great / successful batsmen have it between the ears, and I don't think Vince does.
I'd love to be proved wrong, but he needs to pack that cover drive away unless it's right under his nose.
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I will give them a pat on the back if Vince continues this form through the series.
One swallow doesn't make a summer as they say.
Granted it was a great 83 and i am not trying to take that away from him.... but you can also say that he has again got himself out when set for a big score - which is what test match no. 3's need to make.
I wrote the above after the 1st innings in Brisbane... Vince was always going to be like this.
Other thoughts....
We have a chance.... It's a slim one but it's a chance at least. And a 2 days ago I didn't think we would have that.
Smith needs a serious talking to about not enforcing the follow on.
We need another right hander in the side to combat Lyon. I don't know if that is Foakes and Bairstow moves up or someone from the Lions. And also who do you drop ... I would actually drop Vince but he is a Right hander. Maybe Mo? Hes not bowling well and it isn't going to turn in Perth.
I really would like to know what Paine and Handscombe were saying to Root to get him so riled. I am also from a world where you earn the right to sledge and Handscombe has done nothing!
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Chris Woakes is very good and will end up with 300 + test wickets. Once Anderson retires he’ll take the new ball and show how much he can swing it in England. He was told to add 5mph on to his bowling a few years ago, went away and did it. He’s also got 9 first class 100’s
*note* I am a Warwickshire fan
300 wickets is just a dream Chris is nearly 30 and is currently on 55 yes he will swing it in The Uk he's 5 mph quicker but around 50 wickets a year is a big ask even if he's stays fit ask Jimmy in the last 12 months he's only managed 47 and he knows. How to pitch the ball up.
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Nice to see some fight from the Englad boys.
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What does that mean? He is a prima donna? Difficult?
Vince has great technique and I think he was mentored by Gary Palmer but I could be wrong about that. :)
Means a player who
Doesn't or can't bat long.
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It unfortunately cannot be adapted for Vince.
Good technique is not the be all and end all, plenty of aesthetically pleasing players have been heavily outscored by those who have a less than traditional technique, but have the requisite application and fortitude. It's easy to be suckered in by the assumption that a 'pretty' batsman is a better batsman. Who would you rather have in your team, Graeme Smith & Steve Smith or Ian Bell & Shaun Marsh?
It's more about what you've got between your ears than how nicely you hit a cover drive.
In the words of Graham Gooch, 'You're not a batsman, you're a run scorer'
Totally agree with this, there are many pleasing batsmen to watch and wonderful it is to see, there are just as many non pleasing ones who has scored thousands of test runs. Graeme smith spring to mind for one.
Root is great to watch and you can admire the others. I thought Malan showed lots of character and only come undone with high class bowling, Vince has lovely shots, really great to watch his offside play, quality bowlers just won't bowl it there it will be short of a length outside off at pace.
I know it's club cricket and I'm not a brilliant player but same principal applies, I faced Alex Tudor last season, 40 odd now with bad knees, after I got a couple of runs relatively easy he just bowled it a bit quicker short of a length outside off. When he took away the drive and the clip off the legs I was stuck. The higher level you go up the better the bowling is. club to county must be huge, county to test a Grand Canyon.
vince won't make it, I would have Malan at 3 when stokes comes back.
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COME ON ENGLAND!!!!!!
I know ... we're still gonna lose ..... but there is just a smidgeon of hope......
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Have some faith
I'm feeling good about it, we have them under pressure and more importantly Smith is under pressure
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U think England is in winning position here specially Australia out of review for crucial hours of play.
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The first hour is key. If we get through it one down, then I think we'll win... Otherwise it's curtains. So excited though!
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I cant believe people on here are suggesting dropping Moeen! Englands player of the last 12 months for me along with Anderson.
I know he's not had a great return with the ball but who seriously thought he would in Australia? He's a batting allrounder and has only really become Englands premier spinner by default.
Short memories some people
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Just wish someone can smash the smirk of Lyons face and his spitting tongue
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I cant believe people on here are suggesting dropping Moeen! Englands player of the last 12 months for me along with Anderson.
I know he's not had a great return with the ball but who seriously thought he would in Australia? He's a batting allrounder and has only really become Englands premier spinner by default.
Short memories some people
Meh, Moeen's a good player but he averages 34 with the bat and 38 with the ball, he'll always be a bit vulnerable to suggestions. If Ben Stokes was available and the reserve spinner wasn't a 20yo leggie Moeen's place could genuinely have been under threat with the finger injury he's carrying. Has anyone actually suggested he get dropped though?
Re. potential RH replacements - they'll have to be right handed and bat in the top 3/4 for their county, along with ideally not being a previous international reject. Assuming we want somone younger than 30 and looking down the run charts from last season... Div 1 - Davies, Livingstone, Eskinazi, Lawrence. Div 2 - Northeast, Clarke. Throw in Hameed, hard to believe at least one of those won't get a go in the test side at some stage.
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Just wish someone can smash the smirk of Lyons face and his spitting tongue
:o
Love the goat! For such a maligned player, who constantly comes under scrutiny for his inability to bow his side to victory. He's stood up admirably. Not easy living up to the expectations of a country based on the last half decent spinner we had. For him to then deliberately focus even more pressure on himself before this Ashes series by making public comments to take some
media heat off Marsh, Paine and Bancroft shows how much he's willing to give for this team. Amazing fielder, tidy bowler. Humble. Love the goat!
Hope he rips through the poms today. :D
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:o
Love the goat! For such a maligned player, who constantly comes under scrutiny for his inability to bow his side to victory. He's stood up admirably. Not easy living up to the expectations of a country based on the last half decent spinner we had. For him to then deliberately focus even more pressure on himself before this Ashes series by making public comments to take some
media heat off Marsh, Paine and Bancroft shows how much he's willing to give for this team. Amazing fielder, tidy bowler. Humble. Love the goat!
Hope he rips through the poms today. :D
Agreed, champion bloke as well, had a few chats with him.
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Regarding Vince being an aesthetically pleasing (good technique ?) batsman vs gutsier/less pretty batsmen etc -
There's a reason why some batsmen at test level look ugly yet score runs . Often they've got a weakness /achilles heel and they abort that shot or avoid the things that get them into trouble . For example , steve waugh wasn't so pretty towards the 2nd half of his career . He used to have a nice looking pull and hook shot . He got in trouble with those shots so aborted them . Took balls on the body for the rest of his career and looked ugly (but gutsy) doing it . If vince is to succeed he needs to do a similar thing re his cover drives to short of a length bowling .
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People should also be very critical of Root. Strokes a lot of pretty 50s, but has a terrible conversion rate to 100s. Morw should be demanded from Englands best player.
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People should also be very critical of Root. Strokes a lot of pretty 50s, but has a terrible conversion rate to 100s. Morw should be demanded from Englands best player.
Well, today's his chance...
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And that's a shitter of a decision, cheers Aleem and Marais.
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Aussies paid them off last night
bunch of cheats
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And that's a shitter of a decision, cheers Aleem and Marais.
Seemed pretty legit to me (AS well as Tubs and KP in the com box)
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Seemed pretty legit to me (AS well as Tubs and KP in the com box)
Not that arsed what those two think, commentators aren't paid to rock the boat! Nothing on hotspot and the ball was past the edge at the time of the mark on snicko, not to mention the ball deviates in the opposite direction to the 'nick'...
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Not that arsed what those two think, commentators aren't paid to rock the boat! Nothing on hotspot and the ball was past the edge at the time of the mark on snicko, not to mention the ball deviates in the opposite direction to the 'nick'...
I imagine the umpires, commentators and players aren't that arsed what you think either.
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Aussies paid them off last night
bunch of cheats
Is that you Milo?
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Seemed pretty legit to me (AS well as Tubs and KP in the com box)
Yeah not sure what the issue is, snicko showed enough to stick with the on field decision. Would it have overturned a Not Out from the umpire maybe not
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Someone remind me why I got up again?
Oh well, we had 1 decent day, can't remember having a decent day last ashes series down under.
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It was fun while it lasted... :(
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People should also be very critical of Root. Strokes a lot of pretty 50s, but has a terrible conversion rate to 100s. Morw should be demanded from Englands best player.
Root is our best player, but yes his conversion rate is poor.
The lads got alot off pressure on his shoulders. Nobody else(cook included) is doing much to help him out in terms of batting. And he's having to captain the side to.
Maybe if the rest of the top 6 converted there pretty 30s to decent scores more often, he'd then convert more 50s.
But for now, as he's our only hope, let's not all turn on him and heap more pressure on.
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We'll have him if you guy's don't want him.
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*wakes up*
*checks score*
*goes back to sleept*
Disappointed but not surprised it really is the bloody hope that gets you!
After a great day yesterday so frustrating to see the collapse
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We'll have him if you guy's don't want him.
Yeah, they can have a pakage deal if they want to swap.....root for marsh, khawaja, handscomb, ferguson, maddinson , and an old gn scoop I've got laying around somewhere. :D
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Yes third 5am start for me at least we had a chance this test, albeit a slim one
Bairstow has to move up one whilst stokes is not playing
As I've just read on BBC txt 'yes gilchrist batted 7....but look who he had about him'
Not enough runs thou from the batters when it came down to it
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So oz win by 121 . Much closer than it should/would have been if smith enforced the follow on and we didnt bat like muppets in the 2nd dig . Take nothing away from eng though.....bowled great in the 2nd innings and showed some glimpses of batting fight ( woakes and overton , to a lesser degree root too).
Its scary ( encouraging if you're australian ) just how many wickets starc has taken , and he's not even remotely close to being in his best form .
Cummins looked solid and hazlewood looked sharper than ive ever seen him . 2 tests down and all 3 quicks look untroubled and knjury free .
Lyon is going great too...really looking forward to seeing him bowl at mcg and scg .
But .....we need to learn how to bat , and so do england - overall , both sides have been very poor with the bat .
Anyway , cant talk about whitewashes or anything yet , but safe to say : series over .
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Big disappointment, Australia didn’t let root settle in and that was the key. It’s blatant that ECB got it wrong with selection
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Ok back to bed then, havnt seen anything got up at 5:30 made a tea and see it’s over. To be fair I did think this may be the case
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Hazelwood and Starc really turned it on today, credit to pat cummins for bowling his guts out for not much reward. And surely now people will start giving lyon the respect he deserves as (arguably) one of if not the best spinner in world cricket at the moment. Scarily for England, Australia still a long way off playing their best.. on a side note, the umpiring was bang average this test.
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Hows ya porridge taste this morning lads? :D
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Well it was a long shot.... we do have a bad habit of losing wickets in clumps and was always going to be a difficult task with tail facing a new ball.
I found the Captains post-match interviews very interesting -
Smith on the follow-on decision - "Would I do the same again? I'm not sure. It's played on my mind a bit over the last couple of days - have I made a mistake? My rationale was it's really long summer and I don't want to bowl my bowlers into the ground. On another day I might decide to go another way, but we've won the Test match, so it's irrelevant."
Fair play for Smith saying that.
Root on the toss decision - "I don't regret it. You want to give your bowlers the best chance - I fully expect those guys to take 10 wickets. There's a lot of things you can look back on and say you want to do different, but I don't think that's one of them."
It was a shocking decision, yes the bowlers didn't bowl well at the start but i rank that up there as a complete bottle job bowling 1st - i wish he would just be man enough to say he got it wrong.... i am losing a lot of faith in Root the Captain.
There is a lot of difference in wanting to bowl 1st and not wanting the bat 1st.
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Us losing had nothing to do with the toss and everything to do with being rubbish with bat and ball for the majority of the game.
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If the bowlers had bowled well maybe we'd have got them for 250-300, even if we then batted as badly as we did it wouldn't have looked nearly as bad a decision.
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Can't keep scoring sub 300 in either innings and expect to win many Test Matches.
It's the hope that kills you!
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Would love to know flintoffs, goughs, harmisons,etc thoughts on the current England team and especially that performance
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Can't keep scoring sub 300 in either innings and expect to win many Test Matches.
It's the hope that kills you!
Indeed, if Woakes can keep firing then at least we have 3 bowlers putting pressure on their batsman. Out batters have to start converting starts into tons though.
I still think we need less leftie in the top order, so that we can put pressure on Lyon and stop their quicks getting such a long breather, as for who those RHB are, beats me.
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Would love to know flintoffs, goughs, harmisons,etc thoughts on the current England team and especially that performance
As none of them ever won a series in Australia they can kindly keep their opinions.
Flintoff captained a 5-0 defeat, Harmison bowled the ball to wide gully and Gough never won the Ashes home or away!
Funny how players become better when they retire. The players in the team are the best we have available, support them!
And do not underestimate the impact Stokes' absence has had mentally on both teams. Englands vice captain and best player fully fit but not playing - what a boost to the Australians! And kick in the teeth to England, whatever they say publicly Stokes has let his country down
We need to start scoring 100s simple as that. I dont think the bowling has been bad atall on the whole but 30s and 40s in Australia wont win you matches
Impressed with Overton, might not be the most talented cricketer we have but has got stuck in with bat and ball and looked up for a battle. Admire any sportsman who competes hard
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Would be interesting to see the stats on the amount of times Root has been 50+ overnight and not gone on to add to it much, seems to happen a lot
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Would be interesting to see the stats on the amount of times Root has been 50+ overnight and not gone on to add to it much, seems to happen a lot
He must average <20 starting again the next morning!
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It is hard not to be negative being an England fan when we play in Oz. We aren't probably giving the Australians credit.
They have four very good bowlers, including a spinner (remember what a difference Swann made for England). Australia also have a world class opener in Warner and a captain who is going to end up as probably one of the all time greats.
England have two very good opening bowlers, a great opener in rubbish form and a fantastic batsman in Root.
Let's be honest...Australia are just better. 4 very good bowlers and Smith. Plus England's batting is crap (no 100's again) and we don't have a spinner.
Well played Australia...you are just better with us :(
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Very well said @JTtaylor145! Oz played better than England for the most part and ended up winning the test. Root & co have work cut out for them. Oz might want to look at their batting collapse in the second innings and see if they can avoid it.
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Giving Root the captaincy starting to affect his batting?
He has too much weight on his shoulders to perform every time he goes out to the middle, the collective amount of 100's scored in the top 5 is ZERO (not considering Cook and Root of course) so how is he able to trust the others will get a decent score...
Simple answer is he can't and as a result he feels the pressure.Sad thing is it look like we don't have anyone else to improve the , the next cab off the rank is Ballance......Ballance for christ sake!!
I know one man cant turn a test series round but the exclusion of Stokes has completely killed the balance of the side...I'd rather have a Stokes than a Woakes any day and the aggression he brings (no pun intended) makes England a far more threatening side not to mention a Dukes ball and movement through the air :(
Overall this England side shows (at times) glimmers of hope that they can become a good side but with a conveyor belt approach to batsman this side will never become the dominant force we dream them to be.
The future is bleak.....for the love of god please make me eat my words England, please.
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The only person we have to blame for Stokes not being on the tour is Stokes.
Are the Lions not playing many games? Difficult to judge whether any 'form horses' could be brought into the squad.
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I think the reality is that we are an average side,reliant on a handful of very good cricketers. At home,with conditions to our advantage, we will win more series than we lose.
The real problem is,and has been for a while now,our batting. We don't post the big scores that give our bowlers half a chance.
Australia,although their batting is still suspect- have a world class bowling attack- all four bowlers are of the highest quality- fair play to those guys.
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If only England had a Kagiso Rabat’s and Maharaj to stem the flow of runs....
And a De Kock to counter attack down the innings.
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Blame anything. But, whatever you do, don't say "too much 20/20 cricket."
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If England were to make a change, personally I'd be swapping vince for Livingstone from the lions.
Somebody needs to counter punch. From what I've seen he seems like a guy who might be up for it. eg scored 68 out of 109 vs somerset, followed that with 168 after somerset had lead over 150. also rememeber he took a catch vs yorkshire in t20 turns straight to western terrace and basically says up yours. That's the type of person I want playing somebody who might give them some back and possibly show some mental strength instead of driving to 1st slip every innings or getting trapped on your crease line LBW like the next in line.
Hes a very destructive batter when he gets going, no ground is big enough. had an average of 47 last season 2 hundreds and 3 50s vs Vince who had avg >33, 2 hundreds 1 50.
Unfortunately Bayliss words when asked about any changes: "No, I don't think so, there's no real need to panic."
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If England were to make a change, personally I'd be swapping vince for Livingstone from the lions.
Somebody needs to counter punch. From what I've seen he seems like a guy who might be up for it. eg scored 68 out of 109 vs somerset, followed that with 168 after somerset had lead over 150. also rememeber he took a catch vs yorkshire in t20 turns straight to western terrace and basically says up yours. That's the type of person I want playing somebody who might give them some back and possibly show some mental strength instead of driving to 1st slip every innings or getting trapped on your crease line LBW like the next in line.
Hes a very destructive batter when he gets going, no ground is big enough. had an average of 47 last season 2 hundreds and 3 50s vs Vince who had avg >33, 2 hundreds 1 50.
Unfortunately Bayliss words when asked about any changes: "No, I don't think so, there's no real need to panic."
Possibly unfair, but I think what counts against LL is how out of his dept he looked in those T20 he played this summer.
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Australia aren't a particularly better team than England, just home conditions and the English batting lineup not converting starts is the difference - the entire England top 7 are fully capable of playing the Aussie bowlers, they're just not making starts count which is key in Australia. Imagine these teams playing at Trent Bridge/Edgbaston/Old Trafford and tell me England wouldn't be winning easily. Runs needed please, whether that means someone new coming in or just the current lineup remembering how to bat between 40-100. A team in Root's image at the moment, perhaps Stoneman Vince and Malan need a good chat with Graham Gooch rather than Ramprakash.
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Edge..... whatever you've had on your porridge this morning, i want some!
"Australia aren't a particularly better team than England"
"Just home conditions"
I wonder what 5-0 looks like when they are actually a better side. :)
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Manno can you give it up with your porridge references England is not Goldilocks and the three bears
Your kidding yourself if you think Australia are a different class to us
Home conditions count for a lot. Recent oz teams cannot play the moving ball over here, pace and bounce away and we struggle
Your pace attack is good,that’s all really
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Truth be i dont know what you eat for breakfast. Not sure how much of an appetite you had this morning anyway.
Regardless, commentators, both english and australian have remarked how familiar the gabba should have been to the away side. Bordering on un-Australian. And even Adelaide in its uniqueness was far from traditional. Bring the duke over, bring some rain and grey sky while your at it. Class above? Not sure i used that language. Maybe they just made more runs and took more wickets. Thats all. And of course we are less competitive over there than you are, but we are more competitive over there than you are over here. Whatever you make of that is up to you.
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In regards to home conditions and who is really a better side - if england manage to win a game or two I'll agree that it's basically even . But if a team regularly loses 5-0 away they cant be considered 'basically the same' as a side who loses 2-3 or 1-3 , can they ?
At the moment i think oz would beat eng on a few more types of tracks than eng would beat oz , although i dont think there's a massive gap or anything like that . Both teams fragility with the bat will always result in a fair few close contests .
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I really can't believe there hasn't been more talk on here, or elsewhere about Root's decision to bowl 1st.
Maybe because we played so badly it is masking it.... that it just simply didn't matter.
If it hadn't rained and shortened the 2nd day - and the Oz bowlers lost the chance to bowl in the night conditions - this match wouldn't have gotten to day 5, i really don't think Root actually trusts his fellow batters to bat a day and a half. Otherwise surely you send out a strong message of we will bat 1st for a day and half and then give Jimmy etc... the best night conditions and scoreboard pressure to bowl the Aussies out. You saw what happened when we actually did that!
Anyways rant over :( :(
What does everyone want to do for the next test??
No one really putting their hand up from the Lions - the 2 games they played -
https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/531328 (https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/531328)
https://www.ecb.co.uk/matches/7226 (https://www.ecb.co.uk/matches/7226)
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I really can't believe there hasn't been more talk on here, or elsewhere about Root's decision to bowl 1st.
Maybe because we played so badly it is masking it.... that it just simply didn't matter.
If it hadn't rained and shortened the 2nd day - and the Oz bowlers lost the chance to bowl in the night conditions - this match wouldn't have gotten to day 5, i really don't think Root actually trusts his fellow batters to bat a day and a half. Otherwise surely you send out a strong message of we will bat 1st for a day and half and then give Jimmy etc... the best night conditions and scoreboard pressure to bowl the Aussies out. You saw what happened when we actually did that!
Anyways rant over :( :(
What does everyone want to do for the next test??
No one really putting their hand up from the Lions - the 2 games they played -
https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/531328 (https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/531328)
https://www.ecb.co.uk/matches/7226 (https://www.ecb.co.uk/matches/7226)
In the interests of fairness, england also only got 1 over with the new nut on day one rather than 10, due to rain.
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England lost this on the afternoon of the first day England bowled poorly after Anderson and Broad had finish After putting Aus in Root knows he was let down.
Also give the Aus bowlers some credit when the pitch was flat there extra pace made all the difference.
Also Lyon managed to get turn pace and bounce.
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I really can't believe there hasn't been more talk on here, or elsewhere about Root's decision to bowl 1st.
I did and thought that the decision was a poor one. Root is a great batsman but doesn't seem to have instincts of a good skipper. We shall see more on that as the Ashes progress.
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If we had batted first in those conditions,England would have been rolled for sub 200,don't think the toss made an iota of difference. Root was let down by his bowlers.The only mistake he made was not bowling Anderson when we had the Aussies 7 down on day one. I don't blame him that he has zero confidence in his side's batting either!
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I wonder why always there is talk about finding a batting partner to Cook, when they should be actually talking about Cook himself. The guy can't handle good pace/swing bowling and good spin either. A youngster would have performed as much as Cook did or maybe even better.
England should dare to drop Cook based on current form and let him back into the team based on performance.
Regarding Stokes, he must be such a dumb cricketer to let his own behavior harm his blossoming career.
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KP instead of Malan in this lineup.....
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KP instead of Malan in this lineup.....
As an aussie i think that's a terrible idea !
Cook , stoneman , hammeed , root , kp , stokes , bairstow , ali , woakes, broad, anderson. .....starts to look good again doesn't it ?
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As an aussie i think that's a terrible idea !
Cook , stoneman , hammeed , root , kp , stokes , bairstow , ali , woakes, broad, anderson. .....starts to look good again doesn't it ?
Hameed, stoneman, root, bairstow, stokes, malan, ali, woakes, overton, broad, anderson
i wouldnt be surprised if we see something like this in the next 12 months and its not bad either! (stokes to be replaced by curran or ball depending on cps verdict/trial)
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Hameed, stoneman, root, bairstow, stokes, malan, ali, woakes, overton, broad, anderson
I'd be surprised if we see much more of Overton this series let alone in the summer. Don't think Root rates his that highly with the ball as shown by his couple of overs in the second innings.
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I'd be surprised if we see much more of Overton this series let alone in the summer. Don't think Root rates his that highly with the ball as shown by his couple of overs in the second innings.
Dunno This was his first test based on these two tests there's little to choose between him and woakes with both bat and ball
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Root will always go to broad and Jimmy when things get tough. Overton seemed to do ok and did pitch the ball up a bit further-we were too short in the first innings. Woakes got 4 in the second innings which was pretty good.
We have relied on Mo as well and he is not fit and/or injured still. How many wickets he would get in Oz is debatable anyway, Lyon is bowling well he gets a bit more on the ball than Mo does.
I think myself if anyone on here is looking at the bowlers you are looking in the wrong place. It's the batting!
300 and even 250 is ok in England and not ok away....too many times our bowlers have bailed us out, it caught up with us in India and same here.
What changes? None I can see, Bairstow 6, Ali 7 maybe....
Wood maybe if he is fit but it will be a desperate move is he is called up, he hasn't played a five day test for ages.
Root as captain is trying to stay in the game for as long as possible, an old well worn tactic for test matches, I don't blame him at all for bowling first, to me he has been let down a bit by the bowlers but mostly by batsmen not prepared to bat a long time
This exact reason may be why Ballance is on the tour, he does have some guts whatever anyone thinks of him.
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For Perth - what i would like to see - but i know won't happen ;)
Cook
Stoneman
Root
Malan
Bairstow
Livingstone/Lawrence/Gubbins - a young RHB from the Lions
Foakes wk
Woakes
Overton/Wood
Broad
Anderson
Vince and Mo out - Lions RHB and Foakes in
Vince never was and never will be a Test no. 3 batter - Root should be batting 3, Bairstow higher and without the gloves. The new RHB from the Lions comes in at 6. We don't have anyone better on tour so why not give 1 of them a go. They need to be RH to combat Lyon.
Mo isn't fit to bowl - you can see he is getting no revs on the ball - and Lyon is all over him like a cheap suit when he bats. So Foakes comes in at 7 and takes the gloves.
Only other possible change is bring in Wood for some gas but i was impressed with Overton on debut so not sure.
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I’d pick the same 11 and demand they grow a pair. Its best 11 available, Australia are not that much better than us, if at all. Just need to rise too the occasion. Deliver their skills at cruitial moments rather when they’re 200 behind.
Ali is best spinner we’ve got. No point in selecting a different spinner. If his unable to bowl in oz then we should pick another seamer.
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I’d pick the same 11 and demand they grow a pair. Its best 11 available, Australia are not that much better than us, if at all. Just need to rise too the occasion. Deliver their skills at cruitial moments rather when they’re 200 behind.
Ali is best spinner we’ve got. No point in selecting a different spinner. If his unable to bowl in oz then we should pick another seamer.
Couldn't have said it better
I would argue that the extra 5mph from Aus seam attack makes a huge difference in Aus conditions but from the keeper up i think the teams are very equal. England boys need to front up and show some grit
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Root will always go to broad and Jimmy when things get tough. Overton seemed to do ok and did pitch the ball up a bit further-we were too short in the first innings. Woakes got 4 in the second innings which was pretty good.
We have relied on Mo as well and he is not fit and/or injured still. How many wickets he would get in Oz is debatable anyway, Lyon is bowling well he gets a bit more on the ball than Mo does.
I think myself if anyone on here is looking at the bowlers you are looking in the wrong place. It's the batting!
300 and even 250 is ok in England and not ok away....too many times our bowlers have bailed us out, it caught up with us in India and same here.
What changes? None I can see, Bairstow 6, Ali 7 maybe....
Wood maybe if he is fit but it will be a desperate move is he is called up, he hasn't played a five day test for ages.
Root as captain is trying to stay in the game for as long as possible, an old well worn tactic for test matches, I don't blame him at all for bowling first, to me he has been let down a bit by the bowlers but mostly by batsmen not prepared to bat a long time
This exact reason may be why Ballance is on the tour, he does have some guts whatever anyone thinks of him.
Don't forget though England still failed to take 20 wickets at times in conditions which suited there bowling that's why on the first day Root asked Aus to have a bat.
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Stokes 0/39 off 7 , 34 with the bat , in latest match vs Auckland.
In oz news , mitch marsh added to squad ( even though he only returned to bowling a couple weeks ago .
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I’d pick the same 11 and demand they grow a pair. Its best 11 available, Australia are not that much better than us, if at all. Just need to rise too the occasion. Deliver their skills at cruitial moments rather when they’re 200 behind.
Ali is best spinner we’ve got. No point in selecting a different spinner. If his unable to bowl in oz then we should pick another seamer.
Although there's little difference in the batting the extra pace plus the ability to be more consistent at putting the ball in the right areas gives the OZ bowlers on Aus wickets the edge over England.
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Surely if the AUS attack is better then that means be default our batting needs to be better then the Aussies, being as good as them means we get beat.
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Stokes 0/39 off 7 , 34 with the bat , in latest match vs Auckland.
In oz news , mitch marsh added to squad ( even though he only returned to bowling a couple weeks ago .
Could be the true saviour for England rather than Stokes?
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I’d pick the same 11 and demand they grow a pair. Its best 11 available, Australia are not that much better than us, if at all. Just need to rise too the occasion. Deliver their skills at cruitial moments rather when they’re 200 behind.
Ali is best spinner we’ve got. No point in selecting a different spinner. If his unable to bowl in oz then we should pick another seamer.
This is a realistic post....in truth we don't have a huge pool of players sat in England or on the lions who are much better. I wish Wood like the rest of the forum was fit....I can't see it thou
At least half the forum had Hales in their team before the squad was picked, he may or may not of done any better. If you're playing him in front of Malan , well sorry, that won't work, Malan is proving he has something.
hales could counter attack....that's on the basis you think quality bowling can be slapped on tracks with pace and bounce.im not convinced at all.
The only player I think myself could of been part of the squad was Plunkett. He hits the deck hard, is a good fielder and can hold a bat. On Aussie pitches he might of got more out of it, to at least make them uncomfortable. Smith and Warner are quality,the rest of just ok
Totally agree there is not much between the teams.we are thou 0-2 down and won't come back. We just need to fight as hard as we can, away series are getting harder and harder to win-for all teams
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Surely if the AUS attack is better then that means be default our batting needs to be better then the Aussies, being as good as them means we get beat.
And that's what has happened
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I wonder why always there is talk about finding a batting partner to Cook, when they should be actually talking about Cook himself. The guy can't handle good pace/swing bowling and good spin either. A youngster would have performed as much as Cook did or maybe even better.
England should dare to drop Cook based on current form and let him back into the team based on performance.
Regarding Stokes, he must be such a dumb cricketer to let his own behavior harm his blossoming career.
You must be mad, can’t play good pace or swing? Or spin?? Has 11600 test runs with hundreds and double hundreds against Aus & SA who have the quickest test attacks of the last few years, hundreds against India & Sri Lanka, Pakistan away from Home and plenty of Home hundreds where the ball swings more than any other country.
Is he in great nick, no is he still one of the worlds best openers? Hell yes based on 11600 runs in 140 matches over nearly a decade.
The whole England batting line up is at the moment pants but you are mad thinking about dropping Cook.
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Cook would be the second name on the team sheet for me after Root
Mark butchers team for Perth, presuming Ali is fit to bowl.
Bowlers:unchanged
Batters: Malan to 3, Vince left out, Bairstow to 5 with Foakes keeping and batting before or after Woakes
Wonder if the selectors would do this?
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Stokes named in ODI squad
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I'm surprised that Crane isn't being spoken of.Ali has two wickets and can't impart any action on the ball, presumably because he isn't fit.Overton looks a wholehearted gutsy cricketer,but isn't going to win test matches.Give the leggie a go!
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You don't give someone a test cap just because they bowl leg-spin.
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Looks like everyone is getting a rest then... apart from the bloke who might have an injured finger.... :(
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21695936/moeen-ali-lead-england-xi-perth-warm-up (http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21695936/moeen-ali-lead-england-xi-perth-warm-up)
https://www.cricket.com.au/news/england-tour-match-perth-cricket-australia-xi-moeen-ali-captain-ball-crane-foakes-wood/2017-12-07 (https://www.cricket.com.au/news/england-tour-match-perth-cricket-australia-xi-moeen-ali-captain-ball-crane-foakes-wood/2017-12-07)
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England surely want Ali to prove he can bowl fine before the test
Bit of a confused picture when we don't have many spinners but he is a our frontline spinner so has to do that part first
But we also need runs lower down from him, I think he has said he is a batting allrounder.
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The CA XI looks like the strongest we have faced on tour. A number of players with Shield and One Day Cup experience including Travis Dean.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.cricket.com.au/news/cricket-australia-xi-to-play-england-tour-match-perth-named-doran-dean-harper/2017-12-02%3fmode=amp (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.cricket.com.au/news/cricket-australia-xi-to-play-england-tour-match-perth-named-doran-dean-harper/2017-12-02%3fmode=amp)
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England surely want Ali to prove he can bowl fine before the test
Bit of a confused picture when we don't have many spinners but he is our frontline spinner so has to do that part first
But we also need runs lower down from him, I think he has said he is a batting allrounder.
He'll play the 3rd test regardless, I think they just fell the injury and missing warmups has left him a bit undercooked.
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I wish Wood like the rest of the forum was fit....I can't see it thou
I'm going to be incredibly controversial and say that (as much as he seems a very funny and likeable lad and a good character to have around) I don't think that Mark Wood is that good, he occasionally bowls wheels but against South Africa he looked about as likely to take a wicket as I would have in a test match, his pace was way down and he just lacked any kind of penetration, unless he's fully fit and going to come in an bowl short spells flat out then there's no point as he'll just be bowling 85mph up and down with average control like Jake Ball did.
If he does come into the squad though I of course hope he proves me wrong :D
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Would love Ben Duckett to get a load of runs this weekend. Throw his name into the hat for the Perth test
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As Northernboy said, if Wood is in the team then he needs to be utilised as the 4th seamer who bowls three, maybe four, short spells as fast as he can otherwise there's no point as he'll either fall apart or have to cut down his pace.
It's going to be tough to do that unless Moeen can get fit and Root feels confident in letting him bowl longer spells from one end so we should keep an eye on his performance in the upcoming warm-up game.
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Let's face it, they will never drop Ali
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Let's face it, they will never drop Ali
Nor should they.
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You don't give someone a test cap just because they bowl leg-spin.
Why select someone in the squad if they are not good enough? To carry drinks? Surely they saw something in Crane to pick him in the squad. England need someone who can either keep things tight at one end or take wickets. Ali is doing neither of the two. He has been good with the bat, but for me his main role is of a spinner. If he cant do that right, England need to try other options.
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Why select someone in the squad if they are not good enough? To carry drinks? Surely they saw something in Crane to pick him in the squad.
Actually yeah, players are taken on tour to carry drinks fairly often. It gives management a chance to have a look at them with their own eyes and form an opinion on how well they fit into the dressing room, do they have the correct work ethic and it gives the young player experience of what it's like to be around test players and maybe pick up a few tips and tricks.
England need someone who can either keep things tight at one end or take wickets. Ali is doing neither of the two. He has been good with the bat, but for me his main role is of a spinner. If he cant do that right, England need to try other options.
iirc only Anderson has taken more test wickets for England in 2017 than Moeen. You don't drop him for a kid with a first-class bowling average of 44.
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All this talk about spinners has me missing @Felix Tito :D :D
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All this talk about spinners has me missing @Felix Tito :D :D
I'd forgot all about him :D
#bringbackGerry
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A finger spinner can only be effective in Aus conditions if he can impart of a lot of top spin on the ball to take advantage of the bounce or if they can keep it really tight and force the batsmen to make a mistake. With all due respect to Moeen's performance in 2017, he isnt someone who will pick up a lot of wickets for you in Aus....and England need all the help they can get in the bowling department. Would be interesting if Leach comes away with the best bowling performance among the three spinners in the warm up game.
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A finger spinner can only be effective in Aus conditions if he can impart of a lot of top spin on the ball to take advantage of the bounce or if they can keep it really tight and force the batsmen to make a mistake. With all due respect to Moeen's performance in 2017, he isnt someone who will pick up a lot of wickets for you in Aus....and England need all the help they can get in the bowling department. Would be interesting if Leach comes away with the best bowling performance among the three spinners in the warm up game.
Yep this warm-up game will be interesting...
Bayliss says that the team will be unchanged etc.... but what happens if someone really puts a performance in a sticks their hand up..... eg. Livingstone or Ballance gets 150 or Wood or Leach get 6 for etc....
By not picking anyone you give them a rest but you also open yourself up to selection issues... all be it good ones i suppose.
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Let's face it, they will never drop Ali
Maybe not but you cant keep picking any player if he's not doing his job. Well not if you really want to win.
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The Eng bowling wont be better than Aus bowling this series...
Eng are probably better off strengthening their batting line up. It would have been nice to try a different and aggressive approach. Have someone like Hales open the batting and try going after the bowling first up. The Aus quicks are quality but its worth a gamble.
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The Eng bowling wont be better than Aus bowling this series...
Eng are probably better off strengthening their batting line up. It would have been nice to try a different and aggressive approach. Have someone like Hales open the batting and try going after the bowling first up. The Aus quicks are quality but its worth a gamble.
Instead of doing that you may as well open with Root.
It would get him to the crease a couple of overs quicker but at least there wouldn't be 2 in the hutch...
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The two things England need to do (aside from bringing Stokes in and dropping this ridiculous suspension) are:
1. Get Bairstow up the order. He looks our best batsman and he has been stuck with the tail three times outta four.
2. Get some variety into the bowling attack. Four guys bowling at 80-84 is not the way to go.
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The two things England need to do (aside from bringing Stokes in and dropping this ridiculous suspension) are:
1. Get Bairstow up the order. He looks our best batsman and he has been stuck with the tail three times outta four.
2. Get some variety into the bowling attack. Four guys bowling at 80-84 is not the way to go.
All things we knew even before the squad was selected.
The selectors and management are very culpable here.
Plunkett should have been selected, for example.
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Get tymal mills in, a few short sharp spells of 90mph short stuff should do the trick
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Mills is a brown trouser stuff but he only bowls 4 overs at a time, I suppose it could be carnage while it lasted :)
2 day tests !
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Absolutely bizarre that England have the chance of playing a tour game and only Moeen is playing from the test side. Understand about resting bowlers in between tests, but all the batsmen are feeling bang in form are they? Hard to say whether that means the top 7 spots are all safe or that it's all up for grabs if someone scores big.
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I'm not sure myself we can just draft in anyone from the Lions without being named in the original test squad(without and injury) but on the basis he rest of the forum think we can I'm going with it.
Thing is thou....if we did that :
It would be an admission the selectors got a couple of batsmen wrong originally and 2:
A batsman leapfrogs gaz ballance the selectors got it wrong X 2...
As in what is the point of Gaz being there(don't all reply to that at once)
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Absolutely bizarre that England have the chance of playing a tour game and only Moeen is playing from the test side. Understand about resting bowlers in between tests, but all the batsmen are feeling bang in form are they? Hard to say whether that means the top 7 spots are all safe or that it's all up for grabs if someone scores big.
This is ridiculous, Cook, Vince and Malan should all play.
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You must be mad, can’t play good pace or swing? Or spin?? Has 11600 test runs with hundreds and double hundreds against Aus & SA who have the quickest test attacks of the last few years, hundreds against India & Sri Lanka, Pakistan away from Home and plenty of Home hundreds where the ball swings more than any other country.
Is he in great nick, no is he still one of the worlds best openers? Hell yes based on 11600 runs in 140 matches over nearly a decade.
The whole England batting line up is at the moment pants but you are mad thinking about dropping Cook.
I hope people can express their opinions here without fear of being branded mad or lunatic. Anyway, your response made me interested to dig up Cook's stats over last 5 years. This is what I found:
Inns Ave
in Australia 14 22
in Bangladesh 4 22.25
in England 64 45.26
in India 12 31.91
in New Zealand 5 38
in South Africa 8 23
in U.A.E. 5 90
in West Indies 6 53.6
The above table shows he has been quite bad in almost all major away countries, something which you wouldn't expect from someone who has made 11000 runs. Why would you want to have someone with a 22 avg. in Aus and SA as your 2nd option after Root, I am surprised, in a tour to Aus. No doubt there is great respect and love for the man who scores 11k career runs but unfortunately stats on recent form don't suggest he can help the team win. Given that he is senior member of the team it is even more important for him to show his performance, more so on difficult away tours.
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Mills is a brown trouser stuff but he only bowls 4 overs at a time, I suppose it could be carnage while it lasted :)
2 day tests !
Yep it's a shame his back isn't upto five day tests.
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This is a hilarious article, perhaps the most optimistic ever written. I particularly liked the bit about whether Mason Crane actually exists.
http://www.thecricketer.com/default.aspx?pageid=1223&catid=71&topicid=43660 (http://www.thecricketer.com/default.aspx?pageid=1223&catid=71&topicid=43660)
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England need to find cooks replacement
If your looking at past performances and statistics etc, then we might as well bring kp back or flintoff
And I've never seen mills bowl his quicker delivery
Always seems to bowl his variations
And ballance? No
Hales? In tests no,,,(and don't get me started on what those two tools did on their night out and whether or not they deserve the chance to represent their country again)
Selectors have their work cut out
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Mark Wood in the two day match team.
Can he bowl himself into the third test maybe in place of Woakes 6 wickets from 2 two tests at nearly 40 runs each
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This northern chap talks some sence. I don’t think Wood is that good. We just seem to say players we’ve not seen for a while or ever (for England) are the answer to everything. No one seems to bring Woods bowling average for England up.
its taken some time to find Strauss’s replacement and their are not many openers we,ve not tried before. Leave Cook for now. Bad series or not.
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Wood’s over rated, even when he was bowling at 90mph he hardly troubled the batsmen. Last time he played he was down to 86mph.
Broads the biggest concern, don’t think he’s taken a 5 wicket haul in over a year. His record hasn’t been great
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I've never seen Wood regularly bowl 90mph.The odd one might hit 90 but I'd be more to say he was slippery,rather than out and out pace like Cummins or Stark.
So we've been looking for a new opening partner for Cook for ages,now we've found Stoneman who,despite looking decent and gutsy,hasn't yet scored a ton.
But now we need a replacement partner for Stoneman, apparently...!
We also need a replacement spinner for Ali,as he can't spin the ball anymore. And a replacement batsman for Ali,because he can't bat against,erm,off spin!
Where are the positives,someone?anyone?!
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The only other opening option I can really think of that they haven't tried is Rory burns, very consistent over the past 3/4 seasons scoring plenty of championship runs, in the spinning department they opted to leave the best spinner in the country at home (well placed in the lions squad) and decided to take a lad that hadn't played much 4 day cricket. Again would Samit Patel have been an option for a middle order batsman, bowls a bit and a half decent bat
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I've never seen Wood regularly bowl 90mph.The odd one might hit 90 but I'd be more to say he was slippery,rather than out and out pace like Cummins or Stark.
So we've been looking for a new opening partner for Cook for ages,now we've found Stoneman who,despite looking decent and gutsy,hasn't yet scored a ton.
But now we need a replacement partner for Stoneman, apparently...!
We also need a replacement spinner for Ali,as he can't spin the ball anymore. And a replacement batsman for Ali,because he can't bat against,erm,off spin!
Where are the positives,someone?anyone?!
I agree about Wood but you have to ask... is he different to the others? Will he at least cause them a few issues? Etc... because at the moment we don't look close to taking 20 wickets. And regarding the 90mph we don't have anyone at all in county cricket who regularly hits that let alone on the tour.
Opening pair will be Cook and Stoneman for as long as Cook wants it to be I'd suspect. Cook is just in one of his ruts of form.
Mo hasn't bowled well but he isn't fully match fit - no matter what they say - and it is being exaggerated by how well Lyon is bowling. Mo will be playing for England for a long time.
As for positives.... hmmmm
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21707649/moeen-ali-skip-bowling-perth-warm-up (http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21707649/moeen-ali-skip-bowling-perth-warm-up)
Surely this is getting ridiculous now - if he can't bowl effectively, they need to draft another spinner in, and not keep hoping 'he will heal'. what also seems to be ridiculous is that the Lions aren't playing many games to allow their spinners to get any overs under their belts and get used to Aussie conditions.
So if they've locked Crane on the tour bus or forgotten he's in the party, they have no other options and no variety in the attack.
This doesn't smack of particularly good planning or management.
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I've never seen Wood regularly bowl 90mph.The odd one might hit 90 but I'd be more to say he was slippery,rather than out and out pace like Cummins or Stark.
So we've been looking for a new opening partner for Cook for ages,now we've found Stoneman who,despite looking decent and gutsy,hasn't yet scored a ton.
But now we need a replacement partner for Stoneman, apparently...!
We also need a replacement spinner for Ali,as he can't spin the ball anymore. And a replacement batsman for Ali,because he can't bat against,erm,off spin!
Where are the positives,someone?anyone?!
Your right he doesn't but either does anyone you don't need to hit 90 mph every ball just land the ball in the right areas
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Your right he doesn't but either does anyone you don't need to hit 90 mph every ball just land the ball in the right areas
Unfortunately Wood doesn't do that consistently either though...
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Good write up from Bairstow here about the first 2 tests, also hints that he wont be moving up the order, but I get the impression, from the brief sentence, he wants to.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-5157323/JONNY-BAIRSTOW-Ive-sledged-not-lost-friends.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-5157323/JONNY-BAIRSTOW-Ive-sledged-not-lost-friends.html)
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Great little write up that
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So Moeen is quite unlikely to bowl in the warm up, which is the main reason I assumed he was the only one from the Test team who was playing!
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21707649/moeen-ali-skip-bowling-perth-warm-up (http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21707649/moeen-ali-skip-bowling-perth-warm-up)
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Guardian reports he is bowling in this match.he is clearly hampered by the finger injury, how much of an impact he would have fully fit is debatable anyway on these pitches, Lyon is a better bowler and gets more on the ball.
Mason crane may yet play on the tour, he is good enough to play for NSW.
If Stokes was in the team I’m convinced we would be playing 2 spinners and leaving out 1 seamer
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Hearing Mason Crane is going to play next test. I'm assuming Ali playing this game might decide if he will play as a batsmen.
Got a feeling we are going to struggle next 3 tests now tbh but walk all over them in the odis with a squad full off players trying to prove a point.
The preparation for this tour has been their biggest downfall and the reason the series has gone the way it has.
Still reckon with everyone available for both teams england are stronger on paper.
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From Mo himself.....
http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/11161227/moeen-finger-needs-time-to-heal (http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/11161227/moeen-finger-needs-time-to-heal)
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Guardian reports he is bowling in this match.he is clearly hampered by the finger injury, how much of an impact he would have fully fit is debatable anyway on these pitches, Lyon is a better bowler and gets more on the ball.
Mason crane may yet play on the tour, he is good enough to play for NSW.
If Stokes was in the team I’m convinced we would be playing 2 spinners and leaving out 1 seamer
From said article...
"I probably won't bowl this game," Moeen said. "Just so my finger has more time. It needs to heal. As soon as I start bowling, it starts to rip a little."
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Just reminds me of previous ashes tours - picking injured players and them breaking down half way through a tour.
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Hearing Mason Crane is going to play next test. I'm assuming Ali playing this game might decide if he will play as a batsmen.
Got a feeling we are going to struggle next 3 tests now tbh but walk all over them in the odis with a squad full off players trying to prove a point.
The preparation for this tour has been their biggest downfall and the reason the series has gone the way it has.
Still reckon with everyone available for both teams england are stronger on paper.
Not trying to be a smartarse of argumentative here ....legit questions here . Of course everyone has their opinion and thats cool , you think with both teams having best available teams that eng are stronger .
What would it take for you to change your mind ? If australia win 5-0 will you think that stokes wouldn't have been able to bridge such a gap ? Or would you think that if stokes was there that a 5-0 loss could become a series victory ?
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Not trying to be a smartarse of argumentative here ....legit questions here . Of course everyone has their opinion and thats cool , you think with both teams having best available teams that eng are stronger .
What would it take for you to change your mind ? If australia win 5-0 will you think that stokes wouldn't have been able to bridge such a gap ? Or would you think that if stokes was there that a 5-0 loss could become a series victory ?
Thats for the OP to answer. I will make one point though - it would have been a much more interesting series with Stokes in the England side than it is without. England would have been a balanced side packed with batting options, and would have gone in believing they were good enough to win, whereas I think what we see now is a team that thinks it might possibly be maybe almost good enough if things go their way, and would have had selections options such as Crane for Ali and the like because of that balance.
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I don't think England are stronger on paper or on grass. I think it's pretty even.before the tour started I thought we could retain the ashes perhaps with a narrow win or a draw.
The Aussie bowlers in Oz conditions are better than ours, if they stay fit as has been said before, it's advantage Australia.
We have actually competed in the tests and been let down in sessions by bowlers or batsmen. It's 0-2 and the scoreboard never lies.
Think of it like this thou. Take Smith out of your team and that's the impact Stokes not playing has had on ours, only if Smith don't play someone else skippers and you need another batsmen. We need a world class allrounder and the Tailsman of the team.
He's as important as Root and we cannot balance the team without him. Yes he is only one player but it's his attitude and nature we are missing. We look like half a team.we are getting run over and cannot fight back. Stokes won't give it up and he drags everyone else up with him.
There's different opinions on here whether Ben should be allowed to play or not, different views of what he did, he may be charged, he may not.at the moment he has not been charged with anything.
The back up players, some are not good enough it's really that simple. A few players have carried us in the last couple of years, in England our bowlers get assistance and can paper over the cracks.
As an England fan, I'm a bit sad but not distraught the Ashes are slipping away, we won't lose 5-0 like the last tour-and we had more world class players then.
we need to fight and compete as much as we can,England have the same problems now as we did 2 years ago-lack of a specialist spinner and lack of quality batsmen.
Your a decent cricket fan, you must know Australia are not great compared to a few years ago. The two teams are quite close together.
If the test series was in England right now what would you have the score at?
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It is such a shame about Stokes because he really has I believe ruined what could have been a very close series.
The major difference is the selection options you get when Stokes plays. The possibility of playing 2 spinners, our tail suddenly doesn't look so fragile either as Woakes would be at 9 etc...
But hey ho... we have got what we've got.
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What they've got is a chance to grow a pair, and make the most of an opportunity they will look back on for the rest of their lives.
Show the aussies, their bowlings mediocre and their batting fragile, and that all those years of ecb funded coaching and mothering really meant something.
Yeah whatever
Should be a close series on paper, even without stokes, it's been good to watch, whatever happens
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I don't think England are stronger on paper or on grass. I think it's pretty even.before the tour started I thought we could retain the ashes perhaps with a narrow win or a draw.
The Aussie bowlers in Oz conditions are better than ours, if they stay fit as has been said before, it's advantage Australia.
We have actually competed in the tests and been let down in sessions by bowlers or batsmen. It's 0-2 and the scoreboard never lies.
Think of it like this thou. Take Smith out of your team and that's the impact Stokes not playing has had on ours, only if Smith don't play someone else skippers and you need another batsmen. We need a world class allrounder and the Tailsman of the team.
He's as important as Root and we cannot balance the team without him. Yes he is only one player but it's his attitude and nature we are missing. We look like half a team.we are getting run over and cannot fight back. Stokes won't give it up and he drags everyone else up with him.
There's different opinions on here whether Ben should be allowed to play or not, different views of what he did, he may be charged, he may not.at the moment he has not been charged with anything.
The back up players, some are not good enough it's really that simple. A few players have carried us in the last couple of years, in England our bowlers get assistance and can paper over the cracks.
As an England fan, I'm a bit sad but not distraught the Ashes are slipping away, we won't lose 5-0 like the last tour-and we had more world class players then.
we need to fight and compete as much as we can,England have the same problems now as we did 2 years ago-lack of a specialist spinner and lack of quality batsmen.
Your a decent cricket fan, you must know Australia are not great compared to a few years ago. The two teams are quite close together.
If the test series was in England right now what would you have the score at?
If the series was in the UK right now the score would be 2-0 to England uk conditions and our seamers swinging the ball in and out late would be unplayerable especially if they played day night matches.
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And so it continues.... Duckett now dropped from the tour game and possibly heading home from the Lions due to alcohol related incident!
http://www.espncricinfo.com/cricket/story/_/id/21715952/ben-duckett-investigated-alcohol-related-incident (http://www.espncricinfo.com/cricket/story/_/id/21715952/ben-duckett-investigated-alcohol-related-incident)
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/ashes-tour-yet-turmoil-following-11663893.amp?__twitter_impression=true (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/ashes-tour-yet-turmoil-following-11663893.amp?__twitter_impression=true)
In the actual game we are currently 215-7. Jennings 80. Livingstone 36. Mo 24. Ballance and Foakes didn't get many.
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Absolute shambles!
After everything that's happened, they let them go out on the lash at 11pm!
And why's Strauss back in England?
Is the ashes not important enough for him? And English cricket
Poor management all round and setting an incredibly poor example
All this does is play into the aussies hands and heap more pressure on the players when they have to do the jobs they are paid to do
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Duckett has previous although this done not sound like anything too serious, it's just the impression it gives we are a bunch of louts.
Totally agree with Northern, management should be there for the whole tour, it's their job
I can't recall a tour myself where we have self destructed quite so much, we seem to be handing everything on and off the field to The Aussies on a plate
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TC not doing himself any harm with the bat here, if he can get a few wickets he’s got to be considered I thought he looked like he belonged at this level in the t20’s in the summer I know it’s a big difference to test matches but he just seemed cool and collected
Duckett and the whole side are just completely brainless being seen drinking that late after what’s happened so far let alone getting in any sort of trouble
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So Duckett got into an argument with a senior test player and ended up pouring his pint over their head? Not sure that's a sending home from the tour offence to be fair, unless he was trying to persuade Moeen to have a drink!
None of the batsmen have done much then, goody.
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Farcical- about time Bayliss grabbed some of these boys by the balls and reminded them what they are paid vast amounts of money to do.
It’s not a f*cking lads jolly, it’s a professional sports team for Christ’s sake!
Take a bit of pride in what you do!
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So Duckett got into an argument with a senior test player and ended up pouring his pint over their head? Not sure that's a sending home from the tour offence to be fair, unless he was trying to persuade Moeen to have a drink!
None of the batsmen have done much then, goody.
these players have got to have discipline particualy in the the present climate they all know the score its zero tolerance its not as if they havent been warned.
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Ben Duckett's not very bright is he? They were told before the tour started, told again during the tour and he goes and does that.
Pouring his pint away seems like a metaphor for this tour...
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How the hell does Strauss think all this looks on him??
This all comes across wrong in so many ways
They've got to turn this round sharpish
They changed the whole one day dynamic, they've got to do the same with the test squad
We've all enjoyed for the most part, the cricket matches themselves.
It's been shown how test cricket can be entertaining
They have to build on this and encourage the next generation
Standards have to be set
Looking amateur and second rate, won't do
To me it's upto Strauss to sort this shambles sharpish
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Pouring a drink over a Anderson is not the brightest idea.
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England management creates a culture where they encourage players to make their own decisions and act that professional sportsman and adults.
Players abuse that trust repeatedly, despite management meetings asking them to reign it in. Curfews and heavy handed parental control is considered counter productive to getting the best out of players on long tours. Therefore striking a balance is vital. To do so you need to trust your players to act as responsible, professional adults.
I'm sorry, this is on the players. They are the ones at fault. They are not learning or not listening or not caring. Ironic that KP calls for Strauss to sort the shambles out when he was pushing back against Flower's heavy handed management a few years ago.
Strauss has a role to play here, but I'd guess he doesn't want to be the guy to install curfews, alcohol bans and over bearing restrictions on player's down time. It affects performance. He's being backed into a corner by Stokes, Hales, Duckett - I'm not convinced its his fault...
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The words of Shooter Mcgavin from Happy Gilmore are applicable here,I feel:
"Kick him off the tour!"
https://youtu.be/PdfTRd0nMos
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Farcical- about time Bayliss grabbed some of these boys by the balls and reminded them what they are paid vast amounts of money to do.
It’s not a f*cking lads jolly, it’s a professional sports team for Christ’s sake!
Take a bit of pride in what you do!
I think this echos how id be feeling.
Respect the game. Respect the history. Respect the privilege.
Cricket is not a f*cking game!
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I think this echos how id be feeling.
Respect the game. Respect the history. Respect the privilege.
Cricket is not a f*cking game!
Make your mind up fella! ;)
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Don't make me pour a beer on your head! ;)
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As an England fan, and a die hard one at that, I'm getting more disappointed as the weeks go on. I don't actually mind the fact that we are losing becuae we are just a 'good' team, not a great one by any means. We have a new captain and are away from home, all that adds up to a tough tour.
As has been said by @jamielsn15 the players are letting us down a bit, this Duckett incident was on a night there is no curfew, so any adult team away from home should make their own rules, which England by and large do.
The first time they are out after midnight this happens.
And it's all so trivial, stupid incidents.....
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As an England fan, and a die hard one at that, I'm getting more disappointed as the weeks go on. I don't actually mind the fact that we are losing becuae we are just a 'good' team, not a great one by any means. We have a new captain and are away from home, all that adds up to a tough tour.
As has been said by @jamielsn15 the players are letting us down a bit, this Duckett incident was on a night there is no curfew, so any adult team away from home should make their own rules, which England by and large do.
The first time they are out after midnight this happens.
And it's all so trivial, stupid incidents.....
Yep another opportuinity presented to the Aussie medis to crank up undermine this England team
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I really don’t get why this Duckett story is such a problem, it’s not a school trip!
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Who here can honestly say they've never done something a bit daft after a few drinks?
I'll put my hand up and say I've poured a beer over a teammates head before. I deeply regretted it shortly after, as I realised I'd have been better off drinking it :(
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Who here can honestly say they've never done something a bit daft after a few drinks?
I'll put my hand up and say I've poured a beer over a teammates head before. I deeply regretted it shortly after, as I realised I'd have been better off drinking it :(
I’ve done some silly things in my life but I agree completely. Yes it doesn’t look great but if they want people to act like adults for me you have to treat them like it. If this was happening on another tour other than aus no one would care
The only thing he should be fined for is wasting a beer!
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Would you pour a pint/a cup of coffee/tea/water over someone head at work?
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Would you pour a pint/a cup of coffee/tea/water over someone head at work?
Would love to 😂
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Yeah me too!!
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I really don’t get why this Duckett story is such a problem, it’s not a school trip!
No. It's a work trip, where your employers have told everyone to be on their best behaviour because two colleagues have got into trouble on a night out just before the trip and a third made a prat of himself at the start of the trip.
In isolation it wouldn't a big deal but given all the surrounding circumstances then it's impossible to come to any other conclusion than Duckett is a complete moron.
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Would you pour a pint/a cup of coffee/tea/water over someone head at work?
I’ve done it on a leaving do to someone I’ve worked with, not my finest moment but you learn from mistakes, if these people are treated like kids and can’t make mistakes they won’t learn!
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I can't imagine this being a "friendly" event. You pour drinks over your peer, or over someone junior. Jimmy is a veteran and the teams Vice Captain! Seems like dunket was just being a total (No Swearing Please) to his senior?
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I really don’t get why this Duckett story is such a problem, it’s not a school trip!
Not a school trip it' could be judged as bringing your employers name into disrepute seen people dismissed for it.
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Not a school trip it' could be judged as bringing your employers name into disrepute seen people dismissed for it.
But the ECB seem to be doing a perfectly good job of that themselves...
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On the field, Jimmy talks a lot and seems like a tough guy but he is probably a mouse in real life. How is it that Ben Ducket could get that thought in his head that he could pour a drink over Jimmy's head? Incredible! Is there no hierarchy in the England XI? Root must be a weak leader, I don't see it happening under Cook's tenure. Benji would've (rightfully) decked Ducket.
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If anyone would of 'decked' anyone else they would of been sent home-with the current situation that's for sure.
What would of happened if Anderson had reacted?
Cricket fable(this did happen thou) Darren gough decked Swann because he was being a prat. Swann got sent home
You have some sympathy for modern players because social media and reporting is so much more these days 10 years ago the Bairstow incident would barely of registered as any issue
But as has been pointed out, this is work not a day trip jolly.
England management group, the lot of them should be in Australia for the duration of the trip.
I just hope things don't get any worse :o
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I don't see a problem with the Duckett incident but certainly, this provides Australian media to play up some more stories and get into the player's heads. In an away tour, the visiting team should relax probably in the hotel bar or something with strict privacy enforced .. something which ECB should be able to negotiate with Australian board.
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I don't see a problem with the Duckett incident but certainly, this provides Australian media to play up some more stories and get into the player's heads. In an away tour, the visiting team should relax probably in the hotel bar or something with strict privacy enforced .. something which ECB should be able to negotiate with Australian board.
Love it... Blame Australia and the media for England’s idiots
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It used to be - 'what goes on tour, stays on tour'.
Now it's - 'what goes on tour, goes on social media'.
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I don't see a problem with the Duckett incident but certainly, this provides Australian media to play up some more stories and get into the player's heads. In an away tour, the visiting team should relax probably in the hotel bar or something with strict privacy enforced .. something which ECB should be able to negotiate with Australian board.
Ok. Bayliss clearly has no understanding of media scrutiny, code of conduct, and team discipline. :D Bayliss should call you for guidance.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21716851/players-behaviour-totally-unacceptable-trevor-bayliss (http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21716851/players-behaviour-totally-unacceptable-trevor-bayliss)
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Ok. Bayliss clearly has no understanding of media scrutiny, code of conduct, and team discipline. :D Bayliss should call you for guidance.
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21716851/players-behaviour-totally-unacceptable-trevor-bayliss[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21716851/players-behaviour-totally-unacceptable-trevor-bayliss[/url])
Thanks for the suggestion. Would be glad if I can be of any help to Bayliss :D
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^ No, he doesn't. You have no idea what you are talking about.
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It used to be - 'what goes on tour, stays on tour'.
Now it's - 'what goes on tour, goes on social media'.
Some young punk dumps beer on an England legend.. he SHOULD be punished !! Not because of any "moral" reason, but because this much disrespect for seniority should never be allowed.
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I see England’s savior makes a duck in NZ🦆🏏
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^ No, he doesn't. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Neither do you!
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Kp thinks cooks past it?
I think this test will be a big question on cooks future
He has to make a score, at any level no one deserves a place based on past performances or what they might do if all the planets align etc
The test side is under huge scrutiny and it would be nice to think these lads can show some grit and put in a performance worthy of the three lions
Sick of hearing about off field antics etc, it's boring now
And stokes performance in nz means nothing
Stick him in front of a big crowd and he will step up
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Kp thinks cooks past it?
I think this test will be a big question on cooks future
He has to make a score, at any level no one deserves a place based on past performances or what they might do if all the planets align etc
The test side is under huge scrutiny and it would be nice to think these lads can show some grit and put in a performance worthy of the three lions
Sick of hearing about off field antics etc, it's boring now
And stokes performance in nz means nothing
Stick him in front of a big crowd and he will step up
But he isn’t performing... At any level... isn’t that what you said?
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Yeah absolutely
Blokes past it in my eyes, but I'm sure one or two will beg to differ
And hopefully he proves me wrong
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What do people think of Tom Curran being called into the side? 77 not out in the tour game pick of the bowlers with wood in the 1st innings and 3 of 4 wickets do far in the second at by far the best rate
Can’t decide on crane and leach either because from the figures it looks that they bowled very well first innings but are taking an absolute pounding in this one
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Didn’t Cook average in the 90’s in the CC last year from a decent amount of games?? It maybe a bit premature to say he is past it.
Cook has, and always has had, one of those techniques that just looks terrible when everything isn’t 100%. When he clicks the runs will come back.
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What do people think of Tom Curran being called into the side? 77 not out in the tour game pick of the bowlers with wood in the 1st innings and 3 of 4 wickets do far in the second at by far the best rate
Can’t decide on crane and leach either because from the figures it looks that they bowled very well first innings but are taking an absolute pounding in this one
Another right hander bowling low-mid 80’s. The attack is all too samey and unfortunately he doesn’t change that, if he was the same but left hand for some variety I think he’d have a chance
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Another right hander bowling low-mid 80’s. The attack is all too samey and unfortunately he doesn’t change that, if he was the same but left hand for some variety I think he’d have a chance
I think his brother is let arm over, we do need some variety in our attack whether that is spin(I think crane should play myself) or pace which is much harder to find.
Whatever T Curran is doing in the links game he is just another medium pacer who can bat.
Def got talent but we need options at test level to go forward. England want a spinner, after Swann we have struggled, Dawson,Rashid didn't work out , not sure about Leach to be honest...
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Ok. Bayliss clearly has no understanding of media scrutiny, code of conduct, and team discipline. :D Bayliss should call you for guidance.
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21716851/players-behaviour-totally-unacceptable-trevor-bayliss[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21716851/players-behaviour-totally-unacceptable-trevor-bayliss[/url])
Well if He does get the call he can't do a worse job than Bayliss
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Yeah absolutely
Blokes past it in my eyes, but I'm sure one or two will beg to differ
And hopefully he proves me wrong
I was referring to Stokes... He isn’t performing at any level... You can’t pick players on past performances... Can you?
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I was referring to Stokes... He isn’t performing at any level... You can’t pick players on past performances... Can you?
Surely you are joking
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What happened with rashid?
We need to dig out a genuine quick from somewhere
Get Patel out there too
Are there no pros plying there trade in grade cricket over there at the minute
Aussies dug Agar out of the English leagues and he didn't too bad
Stokes!!
Ignoring what he's done for a minute, the blokes on a different planet to the rest of our lads
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I think his brother is let arm over, we do need some variety in our attack whether that is spin(I think crane should play myself) or pace which is much harder to find.
Whatever T Curran is doing in the links game he is just another medium pacer who can bat.
Def got talent but we need options at test level to go forward. England want a spinner, after Swann we have struggled, Dawson,Rashid didn't work out , not sure about Leach to be honest...
I think Crane would get eaten alive at test level.. You can’t just pick a spinner because he is a spinner... He hasn’t shown anything special in the tour match as yet has he?
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Surely you are joking
So Cook has a couple of poor matches and he is past it ( leading Test run scorer for England) and everyone wants him axed but Stokes can’t score runs against club cricketers and he is instantly in the side? Ok Ok you guys are desperate I know
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Hey mr number 4
Think your missing my point,
'I' personally think cooks past it, no one else does
And I hope beyond hope he proves me hugely wrong
Stokes is playing a decent club?? Standard over there
Doesn't mean nothing, he should be taking the mick, but hey ho
Wouldn't be the first to struggle against a lower standard than what he's used too
And can I just put this out there, the ecb are doing there best to destroy English cricket
They've got a hell of a job turning this mess around
I've said it many times , gotta get these dinosaurs out, and have a look at the player pathways etc as to me it's at the expense of genuine talent
The money available to counties needs to be looked at, there has to be coaches,scouts etc available to all
Etc etc etc
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What happened with rashid?
We need to dig out a genuine quick from somewhere
Get Patel out there too
Are there no pros plying there trade in grade cricket over there at the minute
Aussies dug Agar out of the English leagues and he didn't too bad
Stokes!!
Ignoring what he's done for a minute, the blokes on a different planet to the rest of our lads
Rashid was never good enough for test cricket. He's fine in limited overs games where the batsmen go after him and he can buy a couple of wickets but he bowls too much rubbish for the longer format. Fortunately he has time to fix it but I do worry whether the fact he only gets into the team for the white ball games will stop him from working on a decent stock ball and not just a bunch of variations.
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I think Crane would get eaten alive at test level.. You can’t just pick a spinner because he is a spinner... He hasn’t shown anything special in the tour match as yet has he?
You have no idea if Crane would get eaten alive in a test match, he hasn't played one yet. Someone far more qualified than you thinks he has potential to play at test level.
I don't think you have any idea what comments you are posting. Have a strong coffee and chill out.
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England needs Cook to find form ( Not sure if the WACA is the venue for him to do that) They need decent change bowlers ( Anderson and Broad are the only 2 bowlers looking like taking wickets, Overton looked ok last test) And they need to find a decent Captain... Root is a great batsman but omfg he is a extremely poor captain. He is like a little boy who’s balls haven’t dropped yet.
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You have no idea if Crane would get eaten alive in a test match, he hasn't played one yet. Someone far more qualified than you thinks he has potential to play at test level.
I don't think you have any idea what comments you are posting. Have a strong coffee and chill out.
Didn’t realise I wasn’t allowed an opinion.. I said “I think”... Which is my opinion... You are the one who needs to chill
So you watched him bowl over the last 2 days did you?
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Series isnt even over nor is it decided and the it seems like it is 5-0 already judging by the attitudes from media and fans alike. IMO Cook appears to have lost that half a second reaction time between the good and the great, love to be proven wrong as even from an outside observer, he has been fantastic to watch over the years. Root has done an ok job of pretending to be a test match captain but long term, its hard to see him being in that position.
As i predicted, Lyon has comprehensively out bowled Ali at every turn and englands back up squad have been struggling against the bits and peices CA teams that have been fronting up for tour matches, the outlook for english cricket seems pretty poor at the minute judging by the all around performances since arriving in australia.
As for Crane, the lad has been hit around most of the parks he has walked onto since being on this tour and the WACA is not a place he will likely change that. a promising talent, but maybe for the next ashes.
One cant help but feel that Stokes would have made this series a bit more interesting, if he had half a brain england might have had half a chance.
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Didn’t realise I wasn’t allowed an opinion.. I said “I think”... Which is my opinion... You are the one who needs to chill
So you watched him bowl over the last 2 days did you?
Of course you are allowed an opinion,everyone has one on here and we are all equal. What I am saying is there is a huge amount of pre judging players on this forum who have yet to play in test match conditions.
Players who have played a few games, like Vince for example, you can make a reasonable judgement on.
Players that have not played I cannot see how anyone at this stage knows more about England's selection than the selectors.
If first class matches, tour matches, and whatever other matches were the sole judge of a player Trescothick would never have been capped by England.
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Oh to have a tres now
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Are there no pros plying there trade in grade cricket over there at the minute
Aussies dug Agar out of the English leagues and he didn't too bad
The only one I can find is Ollie Pope who is playing for Campbell Town in Sydney :( he is averaging 66 in 1st grade though :)
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The only one I can find is Ollie Pope who is playing for Campbell Town in Sydney :( he is averaging 66 in 1st grade though :)
He can't even put a grip on the right way though...
https://twitter.com/OPope32/status/934894366878867456
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I don't see a problem with the Duckett incident but certainly, this provides Australian media to play up some more stories and get into the player's heads. In an away tour, the visiting team should relax probably in the hotel bar or something with strict privacy enforced .. something which ECB should be able to negotiate with Australian board.
Neither do you!
Yeah, but I am not the one babbling about how team discipline is not a problem, you are! You clearly have no understanding of a team dynamic or cohesion. Or, maybe you are just too junior with no responsibility in your team’s hierarchy to understand these nuances!!!
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Well Duckett suspended for the rest of the tour but has to stay with the squad. So that will test his mettle to stay practising and training with no hope of playing.
The fact he has previous probably did for him here as well and of course, Flower is his coach.
Bayliss known to be far more forgiving of stuff off the pitch(although he now sounds like he has had enough).
You suspect the microscope is really on anyone now and anything else happens there could be sendings home
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Rumour in e press this morning was that Bayliss was looking to drop a cute of troublemakers after the Ashes to create a new team culture. Wonder who is in the frame?
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Yeah, but I am not the one babbling about how team discipline is not a problem, you are! You clearly have no understanding of a team dynamic or cohesion. Or, maybe you are just too junior with no responsibility in your team’s hierarchy to understand these nuances!!!
Thanks for the advise Mr Senior.
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I have a feeling one under the microscope is Bairstow
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Buttler would love that
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Buttler would love that
Was Butler ever in the frame for Ashes test selection?
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I have a feeling one under the microscope is Bairstow
It makes sense. I always thought JB's kit would be stickered up by now, if he has been in more trouble, then that would explain the delay in sponsors.
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Was Butler ever in the frame for Ashes test selection?
Probably not
But wouldn't harm his chances of a game
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I went through the list of settled members of the England squad and there are not many candidates.
Cook - yeah, right.
Root - unlikely.
Ali - would be a wonderful scoop, but no.
Bairstow - possible.
Woakes - possible.
Broad - possible.
Anderson - unlikely.
Stokes we know is PNG, and I am pretty confident that if this is true Hales and Ball will be amongst those under the spotlight. Vince, Stoneman, Malan and Curran have not been around the senior squad long enough.
Hmmm...
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Woakes is mr nice guy so can’t see it being him.
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Bairstow, ball, plunkett, Anderson we’re all out in Bristol (Anderson working with sky at the time
Root possibly but as skipper is highly doubt it, broad possibly but again doubt it,
Depends on what criteria Bayliss has set for the supposed cull
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Someone is going to ask sooner or later what caused that incident with Duckett. Yes it was totally brainless, but even as daft as that was anything said or done to him. According to Panesar (yes the irony of it) interviewed on the radio yes he does like a drink, he also has a healthy respect for senior England players.
Anderson-senior pro critical to England
Duckett- borderline good enough for the senior side, with a bit of previous
Just Sayin
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It seems every time I'm away from the forum for a couple days this thread jumps ahead by 5 pages due to an alcohol related incident!
Thank god the next test is in 3 days time and we can fet back to talkibg about some cricket . ;)
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I'm still wondering who thought it would be a great idea to go to the bar immediately after a meeting where management specifically warned the player's about their future conduct and then to go back to the same bar that bairstow snuggled up to Bancroft in. Talk about out of the firepan...
I don't see anything normal about pouring a drink over someone's head in a bar, but I do wonder about bairstow and anderson. Anderson was out in Bristol and was in this bar again.
I remember seeing interviews with Ponting and Ian Bell from a few years back. Ponting had his wake up call after his bar incident and Bell said he had his after being invokved in Flintoffs pedalo incident. I'm not saying Anderson's career has been affected at all by having a few jars but the younger players will look up to him. He should be setting an example. Not good him being out in Bristol and Perth...
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He was in Bristol as a pundit, not playing so that's a bit different to this one but is this like the pedalo night, most of the team were out for dinner and a few drinks Freddie got hammered and did something stupid.
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Really good piece by George Dobell on everything thats going on at the moment....
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21736848 (http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21736848)
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Last coupla paragraphs nail on head
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Last coupla paragraphs nail on head
Excellent article. There may be an issue that needs addressing with some players, and some have behaved stupidly.
But I doubt it's an epidemic and absolutely the management could of dealt with it better, we nave must fuelled the issue so it's out of proportion.
And Duckett may well be a well meaning dim wit, but to me he has been done up like a kipper here.
Getting the security to report on the players as well is a huge mistake in my opinion and a cop out.
If we are not careful the trust you need to run a team will be broken and difficult to put back together.
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Last coupla paragraphs nail on head
Yep definitely.
Particularly like the line.... "all this talk of a drinking culture is a red herring for the issues that actually require confronting."
I am a fan of Dobell I think he gets it right more times than not.
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Reads like a bland re-hash of his earlier apologetic excuse laden character reference of these fine young english gentleman, mistreated by a cruel overbearing headmaster and unfairy scrutinised by a nation of bullies and hypocrites. Boo...hoo!
The last two paragraphs are the ONLY two worth reading.
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The Times was reporting yesterday that it wasn't an argument between Duckett and Anderson - supposedly plenty of them were pouring drinks over each other (have drinking games changed recently or did this one just pass me by when I was a student, wtf?) but Duckett was the only one reported by the security to Flower, and has been stitched right up.
Various pundits have raised the valid point that if you really have to have a curfew, letting them off for a night is a terrible idea; 'here you go lads, this is the only night you can get pissed for the next 6 weeks'. Management would have been better off declaring that there's no need for a curfew, the players are all responsible adults and are aware that misbehaving late at night is not what's expected of an England cricketer, etc. Then get the players in a room and tell them you're backing them and want to trust them, but the next one who ends up in the papers as a result of late night activities will be on the next plane home.
Frankly the worst part of this whole thing is the extra Michael Vaughan exposure. Who'd have thought that the two captains of England's biggest test successes this century would end up doing so much to irritate cricket fans.
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I have mixed feelings on this drinking subject. Stokes, if charged and convicted probably deserves it, based on the limited information that has come out. It is fine to defend someone but I think there is a difference in using force to defend and then not being able to control yourself once you have repelled an attack.
These other incidents are not a problem for me. I have played in many sports teams where stuff like that is fairly normal and even fairly tame. No one is getting hurt or abusing anyone or getting naked etc.
The problem clearly is that now anything they do is blown out of proportion by the press who are desperate for a story. Why they can't just go to a restaurant and have a few drinks over dinner, perhaps in a private room is beyond me.
The worst thing about all this to me (apart from the ABH) is how the press, especially in the UK, slated the English team for being boring and inaccessible. Now they have opened up and revealed that they are like pretty much any other sports team or group of lads aged 20-35 the press rip them to shreds.
I don't understand this expectation that if you play for England, every minute of your life represents England. If they go out to a bar, they are not making a public appearance, they are not at work. The only people who make it a public appearance are those taking pictures and intruding on their privacy. If someone took some pictures of me on my last night out and sent it to my boss, I'm sure my work life may be affected but why does anyone have the right to do that?
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Yeah you're right , no one has the right to do that . The difference between you and the england team players though.....the likelihood of it happening to them is exponentially higher . You have to conduct yourself using all info on the circumstances . If you know you are going to be highly scutinised then you are foolish to give ammunition for scrutiny .
Also , yes , some judgements may be unfair , but we , and the english players, know they are going to happen . I don't think you can really cry foul when the judgements are being made . It's like you want to walk down a street late at night . You know people get beaten up waliking down that street, but you , rightly, feel it is unfair that anyone be beaten up for walking down the street . So , you proceed to walk , and you get beaten up . Yes , it was wrong that you got beaten up , but it was also foolish to take that route/walk that street kowing what you knew . Why not just walk a different street ? Similarly, why not just have a few beers in the privacy of team rooms/hotel etc ?
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Man walks into a bar, does something stupid.
Is added to the England Cricket Squad.
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Or man walks into a bar does something stupid
And removed from the England team.
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Or man walks into a bar does something stupid
And removed from the England team.
A man leaves a bar and is caught on CCTV assaulting someone. He claims it's in defence of two men who were receiving homophobic abuse.
While under police investigation he's dropped from the England team, but is allowed to play domestic cricket in New Zealand.
Meanwhile his teammates are on a piss up in Australia, but seem ultimately doomed to relinquish the Ashes
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A man leaves a bar and is caught on CCTV assaulting someone. He claims it's in defence of two men who were receiving homophobic abuse.
While under police investigation he's dropped from the England team, but is allowed to play domestic cricket in New Zealand.
Meanwhile his teammates are on a piss up in Australia, but seem ultimately doomed to relinquish the Ashes
Thats a good one ! .... where have i heard it before ?
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Unchanged 11, Bairstow to bat 6, Ali 7, glad they weren’t too stubborn to see that needed doing.
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Still getting tonked, mind.
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Unchanged 11, Bairstow to bat 6, Ali 7, glad they weren’t too stubborn to see that needed doing.
Makes more sense.
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Makes more sense.
Batting at 5 would make even more sense though, more likely to bat with Root then, 2 best bat's bouncing off one another
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Duckett gets a 1500.00 fine
Jimmy states he should have been smarter
Root states Jimmy should focus on matches.
Bayliss reads the players the riot act.
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Duckett gets a 1500.00 fine
Jimmy states he should have been smarter
Root states Jimmy should focus on matches.
Bayliss reads the players the riot act.
@edge summed up this very well in his post yesterday. stupid stuff but if the punishment fits the crime in Ducketts case I'm opening the batting tommorow with Cook! The bloke has previous, he has been done up like a kipper and made an example of.
But none of it changes the fact we have a mountain to clime to get a result at Perth. I just hope we give a good account of ourselves and battle, you never know what might happen-we are due a Broad super spell if he still has it in him.
I just get the feeling at the end of this series we have the same questions and we did a year ago, pace abroad is a weak point, quality spinner? We don't know about Crane at all.
And......we don't score enough runs....we just don't. The only two names I think maybe for the future are Hameed when fit and Joe Clarke of Worcs.
I hope Vince gets runs, but if he keeps on with no feet outside off any decent bowler will get him out at test level.
Hope he gets a ton tommorow , or Friday! :)
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Would be nice if any of em would get a ton!!!!
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https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/ashes-embroiled-in-matchfixing-report-20171213-h04b9n.html (https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/ashes-embroiled-in-matchfixing-report-20171213-h04b9n.html)
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Standard gutter journalism from the sun
Whilst there might be a few idiots on either team I dont for one second believe that any of them would consider match or spot fixing. I would like to think that representing England or Australia means more than that
In other news I am currently sat with a coffee in Wellington Park, Perth awaiting the days play. Was it deemed unacceptable to greet Australians with Bairstows headingley handshake? (Only joking manno)
Warm already, fingers crossed for a rapid track. Might not be to Englands advantage but thats what Perth was all about to me so thats what I want to see. If we aren't good enough so be it
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Desperate stuff by the sun. Agree, and i too would be very surprised if there were any in either camp mental enough to even consider it.
Im sure you have nothing to prove so a regular handshake should be adequate mate. Looking forward to the test, though the time difference means theres a good chance of me copping a written warning for using my phone at work to check on the play. Can't be avoided.... :)
I hope its hot, quick and flat. And the Aussies win the toss!!
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Well, Joe's done the toss right.
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Poor Aussies can't catch a break. :(
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Hazlewood clocked 6 of his fastest 30 deliveries in test cricket at adelaide. ...and already is looking pretty quick again . I really like the look of him with an extra yard of pace .
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Whatever the outcome, I want Cook to do well. Enough is enough! Throughout this match, I will say negative things about his batting to NOT jinx him.
So, Cook is looking horrible! Terrible! He doesn't know how to bat.
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Starc draws first blood. Cook is the first one out.
Outfield looks really quick. Stoneman seems to be confident with a couple of boundaries.
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Wow. First 5 overs has had everything . Plenty of runs , plays and misses , and now cook is gone . The batsmen know the yorkers are coming but starc still gets them . Love it .
Ground , as usual , is like lightning, plenty of runs to be had. I love the wacca . I'll miss seeing it in action for the big tests .
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Whatever the outcome, I want Cook to do well. Enough is enough! Throughout this match, I will say negative things about his batting to NOT jinx him.
So, Cook is looking horrible! Terrible! He doesn't know how to bat.
Go home cook and slay some sheep. A*&hole!
Didn't work mate .... :(
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Cook. Is done. Finished.
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Cook. Is done. Finished.
In this series .. probably Yes. Seems a little out of form.
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Cook ....*sigh*
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Odds on Cook retiring after the Ashes must be pretty high..The easy life tending to sheep must be tempting...
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Cook is so far out of form at the moment, barring the double ton last summer he has scored next to nothing
Strange as he was prolific for Essex last summer in championship and one day cricket. That ball that got him looked very drivable.
Stoneman looks comfortable again, have to question why he has only recently been selected after scoring plenty for Durham over the years. Cooks had some hopeless partners since Strauss
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Two broken bats for Stoneman till now - first bat in the second test and second bat in the third test. Is Kippax sending him new bats or is he getting his stuff fixed up in Aus ;)
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Feel bad for Vince. Poor guy makes one mistake and gets dusted. Before that delivery he was leaving so comfortably.
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In this series .. probably Yes. Seems a little out of form.
Yeah. A little.....
Or..... the first of Lyons predicted casualties.
Banter to one side. And cricket in complete perspective. Gutted for Strauss, his wife and family. Really sad. Hopefully its treatable and she can make a full recovery.
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Gutted for Strauss, his wife and family. Really sad. Hopefully its treatable and she can make a full recovery.
who is hurt? what exactly happened to strauss & his spouse?
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who is hurt? what exactly happened to strauss & his spouse?
His wife was diagnosed with cancer so he left ashes to be with his family.
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Aleem useless Dar with another useless decision this clown should have been out of the game long ago
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Stonemans wicket was odd-if it’s hit the glove while that hand is not on the bat it should be not out
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Shouldn't the benefit of doubt go to the batsman(Stoneman)? What was Aleem Dar thinking?
Starc & co are peppering Eng with shorter balls. Stoneman has been at the receiving end for a while. Would be interesting to see how JB & Malan handle it.
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Awful decision. If he was given out on the field maybe, but to say that was conclusive enough to overturn the original not out is silly.
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Have to say so far aussie fans are an absolute ball to be around. Know their cricket and on the most part far from one eyed
Stoneman was unlucky, Vince groundhog day, Root unfortunate/careless
England need 450 minimum here, looks an absolute road
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450 is a mountain to climb. Need one batsman to score a century and one or two should accompany with 50's. Looks a bit difficult at the moment.
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Awful decision. If he was given out on the field maybe, but to say that was conclusive enough to overturn the original not out is silly.
Exactly...it was not out originally and they are guessing it hit the hand off the bat
Erasmus got that right to start with
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Anybody else spot the @Kippax logo on handle of YJB’s bat just then?
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Just got oop
How'd my mate cook do?
Is he still batting?
Has he proved me wrong?
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Anybody else spot the @Kippax logo on handle of YJB’s bat just then?
Didn't catch it really. Any snaps or pics?
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Have to say so far aussie fans are an absolute ball to be around. Know their cricket and on the most part far from one eyed
Completely the opposite of the barmy army?
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Bit of a poor review there, too high, outside the line. Keep going Dawid lad!
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Just got oop
How'd my mate cook do?
Is he still batting?
Has he proved me wrong?
Yes mate. It was a complete reversal of career form on Australian soil. Played tough Ashes cricket, was mentally strong and put up a great fight. Vince also looks like your number 3 of the future too.
Also nice to see Paul Collingwood MBE make an appearance on the balcony with Root today.
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Is the consensus that Cook is done? He might be (or have just lost the desire which amounts to the same) but part of me says that he's always been a player who's gone through really bad trots and real purple patches.
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@Kulli I don't think Cook is done. He is out of form in this series but I don't see any other candidates challenging him for the opening slot. For me, Cook will continue to stay on until he retires. 11,000 runs and years of experience has to count for something.
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This is going far too well
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This is going far too well
Second new ball in 1.4 overs :D.
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Second new ball in 1.4 overs :D.
Not taken immediately
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New cherry with 35 minutes left
Incidentally, how am I supposed to get any work done before the close of play? :D
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Was just thinking the same myself. Couple of uncharacteristic drops from the Ozzies
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Dawid Malan, take a bow!
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Finally a century ... first one for England in this series.
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Get in!
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Nothing like a maiden century to warm the heart!
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Finally a century ... first one for England in this series.
Very observant!You should work for BT sport as a statistician.
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Very observant!You should work for BT sport as a statistician.
I'm not sure, making comments like the one above makes me think he's overqualified
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DAWID MALAN!!! what a moment for him!
finally something to cheer while england are batting on this tour!
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Finally a century ... first one for England in this series.
lol - i forgot I paused the game when I went to the loo earlier. Saw he got his 100 here before I saw it on the tele!
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Completely the opposite of the barmy army?
You may have a better team but your fans are poor in comparison. Jealousy gets you nowhere
Class from Malan, determination but played his shots throughout
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Well done Malan, a fantastic knock and what a way to bring up your ton - smashing a pull right out of the middle.
Very well deserved, he's looked the most assured of the new guys in the top 5 for me. Hopefully this will give him lots of confidence to push on and get a big one tomorrow and also cement his place in the team going forward.
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Yes Dawid! He's got some bottle this lad, I wrote him off as a white ball wonder when he was first included in the test squad but he's proving folk wrong.
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Is the consensus that Cook is done? He might be (or have just lost the desire which amounts to the same) but part of me says that he's always been a player who's gone through really bad trots and real purple patches.
Regardless of what happens On this tour
If Cook still wants to play for England he will.
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And rightly so too, especially considering the lack of viable alternatives.
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Another nail on head
Doesn't matter that he's not doing what he's paid for
There's no replacement!!!
Especially at his exceptional level
All goes back to ecb in my view
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Well batted dawid, is he welsh?
Finally a hundred on a pitch from back in the day quick
Sometimes going back to the 70’s is best .
Bit like the first net at dummer-off a length and over the keeper @WalkingWicket37
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Well batted dawid, is he welsh?
Finally a hundred on a pitch from back in the day quick
Sometimes going back to the 70’s is best .
Bit like the first net at dummer-off a length and over the keeper @WalkingWicket37
He's a saffer isn't he, at least he grew up there and his old man is one.
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He's a saffer isn't he, at least he grew up there and his old man is one.
The last test was the first time since 2003 all 11 players for England were born in England
Same 11 for this test
He’s English
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The last test was the first time since 2003 all 11 players for England were born in England
Same 11 for this test
He’s English
Surely they were in the first test too? Ball's 'proper' English isn't he?
He's certainly part English, unlike plenty of others in the past.
Still half Saffer by birth and played his first 1st class games there as a home player. His sister plays Hockey for them too I think.
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He was born in roehampton-down the road from me
Gutsy knock today
Anyone else think Stoneman has done really well?
He’s an old fashioned opener and they were bowling quick on that track today
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He's a saffer isn't he, at least he grew up there and his old man is one.
His sister plays hockey for South Africa
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Surely they were in the first test too? Ball's 'proper' English isn't he?
Yes, oops, the point still stands though,
I find it incredible that this is the first occurrence in 14 years though
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He was born in roehampton-down the road from me
Gutsy knock today
Anyone else think Stoneman has done really well?
He’s an old fashioned opener and they were bowling quick on that track today
really impressed with stoneman, one thing concerns me is that he has reminded me a lot of carberry on this tour, not sure why possibly because hes the opener that is standing up at the minute.
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He was born in roehampton-down the road from me
Gutsy knock today
Anyone else think Stoneman has done really well?
He’s an old fashioned opener and they were bowling quick on that track today
I think Stoneman looks the part. I don't think he's had as much go his way as he would've liked so far (good balls etc) and they were saying on TMS that's he's reminiscent of Carberry in that respect. Looks good but not quite had the luck to go with it.
He's not the very long term solution but I think he will be opening for England for the next 3-4 years. There's a 100 coming for him before the series is done I reckon.
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I think Stoneman has done really well. They have a pretty deadly set of quicks and even tho8ugh he's looked a bit out of his depth at times he's not given his wicket away. If you can't have a gun opener that's the next best thing.
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Surely they were in the first test too? Ball's 'proper' English isn't he?
He's certainly part English, unlike plenty of others in the past.
Still half Saffer by birth and played his first 1st class games there as a home player. His sister plays Hockey for them too I think.
Ahhhh..half Saffer! now it all makes sense :D :D :D
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I know a few here were critical of Strauss not being in Aus recently, this may go at least part of the way to explain it - although it does say he always planned to miss the 3rd test due to other commitments.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/12/13/andrew-strauss-miss-rest-ashes-tour-wife-diagnosed-cancer/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/12/13/andrew-strauss-miss-rest-ashes-tour-wife-diagnosed-cancer/)
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We still critical of the Stoneman decision?
Not naming any names..... :D
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I wonder if we swapped the teams batsmen around how many the Aussies would score against their own attack. Agree with some of the others really enjoyed watching Stoneman bat throughout the series he will open for England for a while I suspect. Been disappointed with starc though going into the series he was the big threat and he has been underwhelming for me so far.
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Brilliant final session from Bairstow and Malan. Need 500+ on day 2 and then to bowl well from the start. Absolutely belting track and lightening outfield
Whatever happens on the field the english fans were great throughout the day. Must make a difference to players hearing your supporters over the home fans
Stoneman should have been playing 3 years ago. The 50s would likely be 100s by this stage. But better late than never
Dont think the Australians bowled particularly badly, just a good track and we've turned up with the bat finally
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Don't lose a wicket in the first session, then 500 is likely!
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Brilliant final session from Bairstow and Malan. Need 500+ on day 2 and then to bowl well from the start. Absolutely belting track and lightening outfield
Whatever happens on the field the english fans were great throughout the day. Must make a difference to players hearing your supporters over the home fans
Stoneman should have been playing 3 years ago. The 50s would likely be 100s by this stage. But better late than never
Dont think the Australians bowled particularly badly, just a good track and we've turned up with the bat finally
With the amount of players we have tried since Strauss -Stoneman has been unlucky not to play earlier quite agree. he has always been a solid type of player and very consistent.
I asked earlier if others think he has played really well.....I think he has and looks the part, not a dasher but not everyone can be.
If Hameed fulfils his promise, some earlier comments this year for @petehosk could maybe be spot on-he does not have to open....as in if Hameed has the technique and temperament to open, then he def has it to bat 3 or maybe 4.....
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@ppccopener - Hameed would come in for Vince? Once Stokes gets back .. someone has to take the boot. I am wondering who will be kicked to include Hameed.
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@ppccopener - Hameed would come in for Vince? Once Stokes gets back .. someone has to take the boot. I am wondering who will be kicked to include Hameed.
We..England...will only get to the level we want to be by having competition for places.Look at the side right now...if Vince was dropped who would play from the original squad-that's the way selection normally works-it would be Ballance...I like Ballance myself and Vince is a very good player. does he have the nous and technique to bat 3? I don't think he does myself.i don't think Ballance is top class either-good player thou.
Hameed at the moment is a punt on potential, any young player thou you just don't know.last year he hardly had any decent scores.
Stokes comes straight in. He's about the best we got.
we may also need a replacement for Cook although I hope he plays for a while longer yet myself
Hameed may have to wait....and may have to score County runs to get back. At some point thou young players have to come in
Jennings could be back also, England think he has something...again..a young player with potential.
If there is maximum availability then yes, a tough call who to leave out.
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I wonder if we swapped the teams batsmen around how many the Aussies would score against their own attack. Agree with some of the others really enjoyed watching Stoneman bat throughout the series he will open for England for a while I suspect. Been disappointed with starc though going into the series he was the big threat and he has been underwhelming for me so far.
Starc has looked well below par....yet he's still taking bags of wickets , thats a sign of how dangerous he is . He always bowls a few unplayables even when he's not in rhythm /form .
I reckon since bancroft made a couple half centuries against nsw (with the same attack as oz in this test , made at the wacca too) , he is one that would make runs against them for sure . Also , smith and warner net against them in oz camps aswell as nsw camps , so they are very acclimated to batting against them , so may go ok too . So , there's at least 3 .
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Great batting /partnership from bairstow and malan . Vindicates elevating Jonny to 6 .
This is a great chance for eng to get a win up . A session and a ahlf of good batting and some good new ball bowling and it's in the bag . If oz go bang bang with a couple early wickets it could easily come back to even stevens . A score of 400 is good , though maybe approx par , 450 and there's a lot of scoreboard pressure . However, it wouldnt surprise me if we see 450+ from bith teams in the first innings , from there a draw is almost certain .
Btw, what's with all the cook hate ? I think he has enough accumulated credit to have another english summer before the knives come out , surely ? I mean , geez , people may be right , maybe he is past it , but wait a while longer before ending a career like his .
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Hameed would get absolutely destroyed by the short pitched bowling
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Cmon bairstow , cummins giving some juicy half volleys outside off stick
Get that ton then push on fer a big un
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200! Off 365
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Cracks in that wicket!!
Get a bit of water on that and a roller
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Couldn’t sleep so watching earlier than planned and great to see that Malan & Bairstow have continued from the previous day. I cant remember the last time that we went really big in a test match and a big part of that is we havnt appeared to have players that could start well again from being not out overnight.
Go big boys, go big
Oh and I agree about cook got plenty in the bank for me.
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Ah sugar!
Great catch
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Ali,s gotta fancy a few
Oops!!!
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England got off to a flyer and havnt looked back, kept the momentum all day, and into today. Australian bowling just too full too often. No protection fine. Couple chances missed. Simply werent switched on.
Embarrassing to watch Root skulk around the balcony. Ya cant demand a player stay if hes been given out mate, (correct decision by the way, despite hysterical calls on here for Aleems head), this is not schoolyard cricket.
Anyway. Englands test. No fun! :D
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so predictable
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Bairstow seems to be wearing a blue set of Kippax gloves this morning. Maybe just maybe a sign of a new sponsor??
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England got off to a flyer and havnt looked back, kept the momentum all day, and into today. Australian bowling just too full too often. No protection fine. Couple chances missed. Simply werent switched on.
Embarrassing to watch Root skulk around the balcony. Ya cant demand a player stay if hes been given out mate, (correct decision by the way, despite hysterical calls on here for Aleems head), this is not schoolyard cricket.
Anyway. Englands test. No fun! :D
Was it the right decision?? Nothing seems to be conclusive on which glove if any it hit. No hot spot on the gloves and original decision was not out so cant see or understand the “conclusive” evidence that the original decision was wrong.
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Arrrr
Another good catch
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Bairstow seems to be wearing a blue set of Kippax gloves this morning. Maybe just maybe a sign of a new sponsor??
Blue kippax gloves and "k" logo on his bat handle. These players wants us to find out what bats they use :D
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Wow what a ball
Where did that come from??
Well batted ginge
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450 seems a big number now :o
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Terrible batting all round. A great example of how to give the initiative away. Will end up 100 runs short of where they should have been.
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Once these Aussies get an opening they do seem to get wickets at at decent rate. Let’s hope our tail can get us somewhere about 430
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Well, this is something English batsman have to learn sooner or later. If there is an opening, Starc & Cummins will use it to full extent.
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Overton is gone. 9 down .... this is officially a collapse! 367/4 to 393/9 => 5 wickets for 32 runs!
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Six from Broad! Got it right in the middle of the bat. Nice shot. Both the tailenders are dancing in the crease and trying to whack every single ball. Interesting tactics from Broad & Anderson.
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They managed to see off the first 25 overs of the new ball and then precede to give their wickets away when they should be cashing in; it would be frustrating had I not seen it multiple times before from this England team.
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Can’t realky blame Malan 140 to his name and looking to be positive, Ali just looks as much of a walking wicket of not more so than Cook at the moment and we know our tail has no chance realky against the pace of Aussie quicks espically not on the bounciest track in world cricket.
Bowl well and we have a chance of getting into a winning position
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6/35....let's oz back in the game , starc bowled crap for the most part and still got 4for.....he just gets wickets !
Bairstows gloves might be blue kippax, but with that colour scheme remind me more of ss dhoni 7 /mrf kholis /bas players . If they are kippax the blue should be lighter to differentiate ( maybe they will be if a sponsorship eventuates ) , otherwise just go the stoneman reds .
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so predictable
Not worth mentioning?
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Pathetic effort from England losing those 6 wickets so cheaply
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What the management were thinking batting Bairstow below Ali 'because he's good with the tail' I don't know, he's just having a slog and getting bowled as soon as we're into the tail at the moment. Disappointing from the lower order who can all hold a bat except Jimmy.
Decent chance from 403 at least, more Overton wickets please.
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Poor miss from Root in the slips.... Looks like he was thinking about which pub they were going to after the match
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Hmmm, we look a bit harmless when the wicket flattens out or batters get in. Doesn't seem to be much threat here.
Some of our bowling this series leaves a little to be desired:
Woakes - 6 wkts @ 44.33
Broad - 5 wkts @ 41.80
Ali - 2 wkts @ 106.5
Broad in particular worries me. as a strike bowler he seems rather blunted - I wonder if he has lost 'it'?
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This just reverts back to the first test. English bowlers are neither pitching up nor the nasty bouncers. Smith & Khawaja are having an easy time at the crease right now.
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Overton has walked away rubbing his rib cage. If he is not going to come back to bowl then it is going to be a long two days for England!
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Woakes joins the party
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Who invited Woakes.... :D
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Hmmm, we look a bit harmless when the wicket flattens out or batters get in. Doesn't seem to be much threat here.
Some of our bowling this series leaves a little to be desired:
Woakes - 6 wkts @ 44.33
Broad - 5 wkts @ 41.80
Ali - 2 wkts @ 106.5
Broad in particular worries me. as a strike bowler he seems rather blunted - I wonder if he has lost 'it'?
Standard Broad isn't it, he's always had spells like this.
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Aus will get 500 plus,which is what we needed!
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Wicket aside, Woakes looked toilet today. Doesn't seem able to find the right length in this series.
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Yeah you're right , no one has the right to do that . The difference between you and the england team players though.....the likelihood of it happening to them is exponentially higher . You have to conduct yourself using all info on the circumstances . If you know you are going to be highly scutinised then you are foolish to give ammunition for scrutiny .
Also , yes , some judgements may be unfair , but we , and the english players, know they are going to happen . I don't think you can really cry foul when the judgements are being made . It's like you want to walk down a street late at night . You know people get beaten up waliking down that street, but you , rightly, feel it is unfair that anyone be beaten up for walking down the street . So , you proceed to walk , and you get beaten up . Yes , it was wrong that you got beaten up , but it was also foolish to take that route/walk that street kowing what you knew . Why not just walk a different street ? Similarly, why not just have a few beers in the privacy of team rooms/hotel etc ?
The annoying thing for me is the hypocrisy of our press. Instead of defending lads being lads, that are normal down to earth people who like a drink, they whip up a storm about nothing. Now the England players will almost certainly block out the press and go back to being robots programmed by their media training.
Also, how many minutes can you listen to cricket commentary without someone mentioning getting drunk? The crowd are hammered and the commentators (the poor ones) love to mention drunken episodes. Sport and alcohol go hand in hand for most people, why the players themselves aren't allowed to get drunk and do something a bit silly, not assault someone, is beyond me. I guess it is because today's favourite hobby is getting upset about bugger all.
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Wicket aside, Woakes looked toilet today. Doesn't seem able to find the right length in this series.
Problem is england seamers are just mid to fast county bowlers works in England when the ball does a bit but not on these Aus flat tracks.
Also The ECB should have given the England bowlers the opportunity to take more Aus wickets and irequested more day night test matches.
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The annoying thing for me is the hypocrisy of our press. Instead of defending lads being lads, that are normal down to earth people who like a drink, they whip up a storm about nothing. Now the England players will almost certainly block out the press and go back to being robots programmed by their media training.
Also, how many minutes can you listen to cricket commentary without someone mentioning getting drunk? The crowd are hammered and the commentators (the poor ones) love to mention drunken episodes. Sport and alcohol go hand in hand for most people, why the players themselves aren't allowed to get drunk and do something a bit silly, not assault someone, is beyond me. I guess it is because today's favourite hobby is getting upset about bugger all.
'Lads being lads' is not a defence you'll find being put up by any sensible adult, for anything, at any time! As much as it's a storm in a teacup, management have every right to be pissed off with players going out drinking, especially after the Stokes incident. Professional sport is a career that does require some sacrifice and hard work, like not going out and getting pissed up in between games. You're telling me being out late and pissed enough to find lobbing a pint over one of your mates funny isn't going to affect you at training the next day? You certainly wouldn't catch any individual performance athletes doing it.
A thought - why didn't England call up a batting all-rounder to replace Stokes? Feel we'd probably be better off picking our 3 best seamers, a spinner and an all-rounder as 5th bowler, keeping the same balance of the side. Doesn't feel quite right at the moment. Is it just because there's noone who could do the job?
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who would be your batting allrounder?
i can think of samit and thats about it not sure who else in the county circuit is good enough tbh
they stuck with bowlers who bat like woakes, overton, curran and some degree plunkett even though he wasnt picked
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Nice to see Bairstow on getting his ton look upto the heavens as if to say that one is for you dad
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who would be your batting allrounder?
i can think of samit and thats about it not sure who else in the county circuit is good enough tbh
they stuck with bowlers who bat like woakes, overton, curran and some degree plunkett even though he wasnt picked
Samit's the obvious one. Bowlers who can bat bolster your tail but don't offer the same as a batsman who can reliably turn the arm over - that's why Stokes is so valuable.
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Yes very much so. He may not be a particularly bright cricketer but not everyone comes from a university education.
He's a cricketer it's very easy to like, he has some lovely shots.
Quite why it's taken this long to bat in front of Mo I cannot fathom for the life of me.He is the third, arguably second on form in the last 2 years, best bat in the team.
Without Stokes surely the selectors could see he should be batting 6 at the lowest. But they didn't did they?
Can't help thinking this tour is one we have got wrong and shot ourselves in the foot. That used to happen quite a lot way back, not so much these days thou.
If we were flush with quality batsmen I could understand it...
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Bairstow in as a batter/gun fielder, buttler in as a keeper/batter and let mo,s finger recover on the bench?
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One weakness of our side going into this series was always going to be our bowling, but I'm still not sure our batting was set up right!
Hales and Roy are players that would thrive on Aussie decks, and I really would have liked to see them in the side as an aggressive counter to the likes of Warner & Smith. The batting seems quite one dimensional again.
Cook, Stoneman, Hales/Roy, Root, Malan, Bairstow, Ali is how I think we should have lined up.
I wouldn't pick Roy & Hales anywhere other than Australia, mind!
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Bairstow in as a batter/gun fielder, buttler in as a keeper/batter and let mo,s finger recover on the bench?
Isn’t Buttlers first class record poop?
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People don't half write some drivel.
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*Alarm goes off, check the score, roll over and go back to sleep*
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Mitch Marsh is proving worth of his selection over Handscomb. 91 .. almost close to a century.
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Marsh gets to his hundred in 130 balls. Very well played! Smith is chasing a double hundred now ...
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Well that's a depressing scorecard to wake up to.
Not sure I can be bothered switching on to watch
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Mitch Marsh showed confidence and played positive cricket right from the start despite the entire country waiting for him to fail. Good on him. Great result.
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You'll have done yourself a disservice if you decided not to watch these two today.
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You got to hand it to the Aussie batsmen, this is a wonderful pitch with a glass outfield, when you get in go big, go massive.
100 is not enough when you get these kind of Conditions.
Well played Australia. Overton bowling with a cracked rib is a top effort.
Would like to see more of that attitude from other England players. It's tough,the bowlers can't penetrate but you have to keep going and try to make something happen.
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When do we start saying bayliss has to go?
We keep questioning the players but surely the coaches are to blame too?
Why is ramprakash still batting coach
What is the bowling coach doing?
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When do we start saying bayliss has to go?
We keep questioning the players but surely the coaches are to blame too?
Why is ramprakash still batting coach
What is the bowling coach doing?
These are the interesting questions for me... lets face it our batting hasn't been great for quite a while and if you look at Baylis' record is it actually that good?
If/when we lose this 5-0 are the ECB going to ask the questions about the staff? Cos the press are going to want some heads!
Side note.... when did Mitch Marsh get so good?
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As much as it pains me to say this, Smith is unreal, at Test level no one even comes close to him, he hardly ever even gives a chance and, unlike Root, once he's in he really makes it count.
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Gooch got booted after the last ashes tour and the bust up with KP....he was someone who knew how to bat in test matches, ramps is a superb technical batsman so must be able able to help with that side of it, but his test record everyone knows was poor.
Bowling wise Bond has gone back I think and Silverwood don't start till 2018. Interesting for me anyway reports Anderson and the bowling coaches had a bust up at Adelaide because England did not bowl the right length, Anderson seemed to pin some of he blame on coaching advice. Well I sorry but with that many test wickets you should know what length to bowl.
I think you are barking up the wrong tree looking at coaching.
I would be looking at the captain, and asking whether we have hampered our best batsman.
Seriously.i wasn't convinced last year Root should be captain and I'm not convinced now.
Is it more important to the team Root Is captain or get big big scores like smith, kholi,Williamson etc.
Because Root is right up there in that category....not as good as those 3 but not far off.
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Mitch Marsh is in red-hot form. Anything bowled on the off-stump is flying straight to the boundary ropes between deep backward point and third man.
Smith and Marsh are dealing boundaries here. Marsh is 30 runs short of a double hundred now!
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Oh dear! You know your bowling’s rubbish when Mitch marsh is getting runs.
Aussies showing how it’s done, get big runs and not throw it away
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Hope this serves as a wake up call to the ecb
Our openers need to be scoring big, as do the other so called batsmen on pitches like this.
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Gooch got booted after the last ashes tour and the bust up with KP....he was someone who knew how to bat in test matches, ramps is a superb technical batsman so must be able able to help with that side of it, but his test record everyone knows was poor.
Bowling wise Bond has gone back I think and Silverwood don't start till 2018. Interesting for me anyway reports Anderson and the bowling coaches had a bust up at Adelaide because England did not bowl the right length, Anderson seemed to pin some of he blame on coaching advice. Well I sorry but with that many test wickets you should know what length to bowl.
I think you are barking up the wrong tree looking at coaching.
I would be looking at the captain, and asking whether we have hampered our best batsman.
Seriously.i wasn't convinced last year Root should be captain and I'm not convinced now.
Is it more important to the team Root Is captain or get big big scores like smith, kholi,Williamson etc.
Because Root is right up there in that category....not as good as those 3 but not far off.
Agree 100%. I wasn't enamoured with the decision to give Root the captaincy at the time and he hasn't done much to convince me otherwise. Just let the kid bat.
Of course, then that begs the question of who would replace him. The only options I can see are Anderson and Broad
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Oh dear! You know your bowling’s rubbish when Mitch marsh is getting runs.
Aussies showing how it’s done, get big runs and not throw it away
Yep But the pitch as played its part surely Plunkett and Wood would have brought something different to Englands bowling.
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Yep But the pitch as played its part surely Plunkett and Wood would have brought something different to Englands bowling.
You're right, their extra pace would have got the ball to the boundary quicker :(
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Yep But the pitch as played its part surely Plunkett or Wood would have brought something different to Englands bowling.
We’ve all been saying plunkett!
On a seperate note I’d be saying with the ashes gone players have 2 games to get on the plane to nz
Some won’t like this but Anderson and broad have been the worst for England they have the record and experience and I think they think they’re in droppable, now we’ve lost he ashes drop one of them for a new lad to prove that they’re not!
I wouldn’t change the batting but I would play crane and curran, rest Overton as he’s injured.
I wouldn’t be totally upset with this team at the start of the next English summer;
Cook (unless hammeed/Jennings/someone else scores Tonnes early season)
Stoneman
A N OTHER (maybe stokes)
root
Malan
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Overton
Roland jones
Anderson/broad/curran
Suddenly we have a team that doesn’t look any worse than what is playing at the minute even without the 800+ Test wickets
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Broad needs to be dropped, his record in the last 12-18 months has been extremely poor. He’s flown under the radar for a while
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Yes very much so. He may not be a particularly bright cricketer but not everyone comes from a university education.
He's a cricketer it's very easy to like, he has some lovely shots.
Quite why it's taken this long to bat in front of Mo I cannot fathom for the life of me.He is the third, arguably second on form in the last 2 years, best bat in the team.
Without Stokes surely the selectors could see he should be batting 6 at the lowest. But they didn't did they?
Can't help thinking this tour is one we have got wrong and shot ourselves in the foot. That used to happen quite a lot way back, not so much these days thou.
If we were flush with quality batsmen I could understand it...
when England have competed it's been down to the batters on this tour Englands bowling is the bigger problem before the Ashes started suggested on here Englands bowlers weren't good enough and couldn't see them taking 20 wickets each match and got ripped into by one established member.
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What planet is Farbrace on??!!
England coach Paul Farbrace on BT Sport: "I wouldn't say we have been batted out of it but that is a tough day. When you get in you have to go big and that's a tough lesson for our batsmen to learn. We had the opportunity to do this and Australia have taken theirs.
"They have played exceptionally well. You can look at how your bowlers bowled, we think we worked really hard today. We don't have the pace they have and we don't have magical spin. We have what we have.
"Watching from side on our body language was good. We stuck at it, we just weren't quite good enough.
"We think we've done pretty well today."
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Well, did anyone seriously expect Broad or Anderson to put in a match winning performance in Australia?
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What planet is Farbrace on??!!
England coach Paul Farbrace on BT Sport: "I wouldn't say we have been batted out of it but that is a tough day. When you get in you have to go big and that's a tough lesson for our batsmen to learn. We had the opportunity to do this and Australia have taken theirs.
"They have played exceptionally well. You can look at how your bowlers bowled, we think we worked really hard today. We don't have the pace they have and we don't have magical spin. We have what we have.
"Watching from side on our body language was good. We stuck at it, we just weren't quite good enough.
"We think we've done pretty well today."
He can’t exactly come out and say we’re were shut can he?
Where’s bayliss for these interviews though! He’s he head coach he should be answering! Not good enough
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Never judge a total until both sides have batted on the pitch.....well , ive seen them both now , safe to say , relatively speaking , england batted (and bowled) like crap .
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He can’t exactly come out and say we’re were shut can he?
Where’s bayliss for these interviews though! He’s he head coach he should be answering! Not good enough
I think they should come out and say that, media talk gets on my wick haha
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I think they should come out and say that, media talk gets on my wick haha
Given the circumstance and everyone knowing it I think trying to be positive for the dressing room is a good thing
Although I’m sure they’re all sat there now knowing they’ve been crap
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Given the circumstance and everyone knowing it I think trying to be positive for the dressing room is a good thing
Although I’m sure they’re all sat there now knowing they’ve been crap
To be honest we all know that most teams nowadays are crap away from home and that's fine I suppose what worries me is why England are so much worse away than others seem to be at the moment. Whilst we rarely lose series at home we don't batter teams in the way that India battered us last winter and Australia are battering us this winter.
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when England have competed it's been down to the batters on this tour Englands bowling is the bigger problem before the Ashes started wrote on here Englands bowlers weren't good enough and couldn't see them taking 20 wickets each match and got ripped into by one established member
i don't know which of the 'members' you are referring to, you did indeed write that and you are correct, our medium pacers all right arm over won't get wickets on good batting decks. You don't have to look far back to see England overseas struggle to bowl sides out. we lost 0-4 in India not so long ago. Under lights we had a decent chance in the match because we need it to do a bit to help our bowlers.
Quality bowling wins test matches...however....when the batters get in they have to nail it and nail it big-this is what we don't do-get big hundreds.
If we don't do that we will Lose matches....forget about winning and bowling teams out, we will lose without enough runs.
We got 400 on this game when 500 should of been a good score.
You are perfectly right about our bowling, and England's good results are flattering by playing in home conditions when our bowlers bail us out.
Top level cricket, when good players get set they put their teams in strong positions, agreed you may not win becuae you need 20 wickets, but without runs we will continue to lose.
What's the answer? Not sure, let's find this 'established member' see if he, or she(!) can give us an answer
Us fans need something to cling on to. :)
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Smith & Marsh didn't give any chances to English bowlers today. The marathon 301 partnership didn't feature any real close call. Other than Overton, no other bowler tried to build up pressure on the batsman. Broad's bouncer was getting dispatch to square leg and mid wicket region, while Anderson's good length balls were getting pushed to third man and point region. Runs were coming in freely and batsman never felt any pressure. Ali didn't make much of an impact which left Root with no option but to get Malan bowl a few overs. Full credit to Aussie batsman. Perfect day for them!
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Didn’t Overton go at 4 an over.
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Great stat I just read, Cook has batted for over 35000 minutes in test cricket, that's 24 full days at the crease.
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Our batting isn't good enough
And our bowling isn't good enough
Doesn't matter where in the world we are
Our batters never look like scoring big
And our bowlers lack the extra 5 or 6mph pace to put batsmen under pressure when the ball does nothing
And I'm sick of hearing how cooks this and cooks that, THERE JOB IS TO SCORE RUNS!
The same applies to Jimmy and Broad, you don't or shouldn't get a game based on what you did or didn't do in the past
How many players struggle on into an uncomfortable retirement at the expense of blooding promising youngsters
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i don't know which of the 'members' you are referring to, you did indeed write that and you are correct, our medium pacers all right arm over won't get wickets on good batting decks. You don't have to look far back to see England overseas struggle to bowl sides out. we lost 0-4 in India not so long ago. Under lights we had a decent chance in the match because we need it to do a bit to help our bowlers.
Quality bowling wins test matches...however....when the batters get in they have to nail it and nail it big-this is what we don't do-get big hundreds.
If we don't do that we will Lose matches....forget about winning and bowling teams out, we will lose without enough runs.
We got 400 on this game when 500 should of been a good score.
You are perfectly right about our bowling, and England's good results are flattering by playing in home conditions when our bowlers bail us out.
Top level cricket, when good players get set they put their teams in strong positions, agreed you may not win becuae you need 20 wickets, but without runs we will continue to lose.
What's the answer? Not sure, let's find this 'established member' see if he, or she(!) can give us an answer
Us fans need something to cling on to. :)
Clueless.. it’s all well and good slapping 550 runsbut if you can’t TAKE (that’s take, not just rely on the wicket or batter to give it away) 20 wickets you shouldn’t win tests.
Your mentality is white ball.. slap runs and wait for batters to give it away.
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Speedy at 229!!!!!
That's a shellacking!!!! :(
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:( :( :o :o :D :D.....
Things that will happen before Smith gets out - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42378865 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42378865)
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After @Seniorplayer said an established member ripped into him, I decided I'd have a look back to see who it was.
So far I've read about 75 pages on Stokes with various people calling each other "f***ing idiots" and haven't got to a post he made about our bowlers yet!
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HAHAHAHAHA
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(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/onesport/cps/800/cpsprodpb/2DE9/production/_99235711_2ffbe028-966f-499d-ad97-547212b9d1dc.jpg)
Let's have a "caption this image" contest. :D
"You don't steal alcohol from a homeless man, you just don't!!!!"
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After @Seniorplayer said an established member ripped into him, I decided I'd have a look back to see who it was.
So far I've read about 75 pages on Stokes with various people calling each other "f***ing idiots" and haven't got to a post he made about our bowlers yet!
Keep going Cam I am sure you will find it.
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Keep going Cam I am sure you will find it.
I may just be thick but I actually can't... :-[
I found a post where I agreed that the attack was very samey, which has proved to be all too true. :(
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Okay so your team is not going well , but your supporters are supurb , after spending a day with them & hearing lots of stories & advice , i can tell you , it's awesome , the players themselves feed off this massively , believe me their hurting bigtime , england will bounce back , barmy army welcome at my place anytime
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The guys who travel round the world are fantastic. Win lose or draw they have a drink and have fun.
I think I heard they were doing a rain dance at the end of play today :)
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Mitchell Marsh very impressive. What an improvement on Handscombe who someone on here was tipping for player of the series and hasnt lasted to match 3
England had no cutting edge on a very flat pitch. But we knew this before the series. No pace or quality spinner and you'll struggle in Aus, its not a mystery
Both sets of fans were brilliant, fair play to the aussies, they enjoyed it and rightly so but love a chat about cricket and life in general and really know their sport
Rain forecast for 2pm today, we might need it earlier
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Thats me . Wasn't tipping him for player of the series though . I was tipping him to score a lot of runs . He's been woefully out of form . Ironically, i think this pitch would have quite suited his game and he may have batted himself out of the form slump a bit ... perhaps . But , he got dropped . Oh well . He'll be back .
I would have preferred maxwell to come into the side instead of shaun marsh , or mitchell marsh too ! ... so I'm in great selection form arent i ?! But , ultimately i was trying to argue that oz has more than just two batsmen (many said oz only have warner and smith , whereas eng have many more) . Seems a.t.m oz have maybe 3 or 4 ?
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Any ideas which of the 2018 New Balance's Tim Paine is batting in? Can't quite work out which model they are
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(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/onesport/cps/800/cpsprodpb/2DE9/production/_99235711_2ffbe028-966f-499d-ad97-547212b9d1dc.jpg)
Let's have a "caption this image" contest. :D
"You don't steal alcohol from a homeless man, you just don't!!!!"
“I’m going to rip the poms hearts out with my bare hands” :D
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Oh ffs!
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Thats me . Wasn't tipping him for player of the series though . I was tipping him to score a lot of runs . He's been woefully out of form . Ironically, i think this pitch would have quite suited his game and he may have batted himself out of the form slump a bit ... perhaps . But , he got dropped . Oh well . He'll be back .
I would have preferred maxwell to come into the side instead of shaun marsh , or mitchell marsh too ! ... so I'm in great selection form arent i ?! But , ultimately i was trying to argue that oz has more than just two batsmen (many said oz only have warner and smith , whereas eng have many more) . Seems a.t.m oz have maybe 3 or 4 ?
I think Peter Handscomb is an outstanding cricketer and a lot better than the Marsh brothers. They were very quick to drop him and the Australian cricketing public always have very short memories.
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(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/onesport/cps/800/cpsprodpb/2DE9/production/_99235711_2ffbe028-966f-499d-ad97-547212b9d1dc.jpg)
Let's have a "caption this image" contest. :D
"You don't steal alcohol from a homeless man, you just don't!!!!"
"If you call me a girl again for wearing a headband , I'll go and make 300 next time . Promise".
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Cook you tool!
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Broad 0-142. :D
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I'm still drunk from last night but I don't think cook has been out like that before!
He is the one we needed to bat for a day, maybe the mental strength to do that is going
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Vince is looking ok
Gotta just bat and bat
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Root,,,that's just embarrassing
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Root,,,that's just embarrassing
I really am a bit shocked by that shot
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You know what
Someone needs to sit root down sharpish and have a good chat, cos he's looking more and more like he doesn't want to be there
And selection has to be looked at sharpish before the next test
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I was just checking the odds on the game.
Before Root was out Australia were 1/4. If I had a lot of cash that seemed to me a price to jump on. I don't so I didn't.
After Root out - now 1/9.
Anyway we can get our score Quiffed ??
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You know what
Someone needs to sit root down sharpish and have a good chat, cos he's looking more and more like he doesn't want to be there
And selection has to be looked at sharpish before the next test
Someone needs to sit me down and ask why I keep bothering to get up so early to watch
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That's a mentally, and physically, tired shot from Root.
We need our best batsman scoring runs, we know he is the best we have had for years.
Sorry but now is the time we need good long term management, I'm not sure we have that-but we need it
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Rain!!
That will save us ha
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Joe Root, when he is switched on, is top 5 in the world. Maybe the captaincy is not for him.
You guys seem to be selecting your team the way the Aussies have for years. Based on reputation, potential and investment by the ACB. This is not a recipe for long term success. Broad is poor and poor Mo Ali is out of form/injured.
Maybe drop a high profile player of two just to send the message.
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Joe Root, when he is switched on, is top 5 in the world. Maybe the captaincy is not for him.
You guys seem to be selecting your team the way the Aussies have for years. Based on reputation, potential and investment by the ACB. This is not a recipe for long term success. Broad is poor and poor Mo Ali is out of form/injured.
Maybe drop a high profile player of two just to send the message.
I suspect that will happen once the series is officially over
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I hope England some how draw this game otherwise rest of the Ashes will be no fun
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What was Vince doing :( :( :o :o
God when your down you really don't want that delivery do you... FFS.... not sure how you play that with 2 or 3 bats!
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If Foakes is the best keeper going around, why is he not playing?
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Rain comes in providing a bit of breather to both teams. Bairstow and Malan need to repeat their first innings performance once again to save this test match and keep the series alive.
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If Foakes is the best keeper going around, why is he not playing?
because Bairstow’s keepig is one of the things that hasn’t been an absolute shambles so far?
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Cook really should be dropped as completely out of touch. The problem is they don't have an obvious replacement so can't see it happening. Broad also very poor so needs to go. I'm a big Moeen fan but he's just not contributing at the moment. If as expected we lose tomorrow I'd drop all 3.
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I'm still drunk from last night but I don't think cook has been out like that before!
He is the one we needed to bat for a day, maybe the mental strength to do that is going
We know Cook has a career of highs and lows
I think he still has the desire he's practiceing hard and spending extra time with the England batting coach but like 3 of the 4 second innings England wickets he played the wrong shot
More concerned about that shot of Root s has the pressure got to him.
Corker of a ball from Starc to get Vince.
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I don't think any description can do that ball justice...
(https://i.imgur.com/vfNBZ2A.jpg)
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I think he still has the desire he's practiceing hard but like 3 of the 4 second innings England wickets he played the wrong shot.
More concerned about that shot of Root s as the pressure got to him.
Corker of a ball from Starc to get Vince.
Difficult to find a replacement for Cook at the moment but he goes thru these patches, he looks out of sorts to me having watched him since he started. We still need him I think if he has the desire to continue.
The cracks are appearing in our tam and that happens under pressure, they have been there before overseas.
England need now strong long term management for the team. I have my doubts we have it but it's a simple question that must be asked:
How do we get the absolute best out of our players in all conditions?
Root is not going to be a good captain and it will affect his batting.
Tough calls needs to me made. He is a diamond we need to look after. In my opinion.
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Shame he got that, he was looking good,,,(vince)
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For anyone who starts suggesting changes... It needs to be from what we've got as the Lions have flown home and they only asked Wood to stay in AUS.
In other news apparently Ramps has been offered a new 2 year contract to be Batting Coach across all formats.
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Cook really should be dropped as completely out of touch. The problem is they don't have an obvious replacement so can't see it happening. Broad also very poor so needs to go. I'm a big Moeen fan but he's just not contributing at the moment. If as expected we lose tomorrow I'd drop all 3.
Can't see Cook being dropped think he's still got three seasons left in him
Wouldn't drop Broad we know what he capable of and at times he's bowled well pitched the ball up could have had wickets and he's been let down by dropped catches Woakes as been a disappointment you can't keep bowling short in Aus on flat tracks
Maybe if England lose They should drop him for Curran or Wood.
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Can we swap the one day squad for these?
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Sorry senior but I disagree on all that
The mentality of keeping players in based on past performance etc, is wrong.
These lads are professional players paid to perform, not sign autographs, look good etc etc
You pick your best current players full stop
Or stop paying em
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Sorry senior but I disagree on all that
The mentality of keeping players in based on past performance etc, is wrong.
These lads are professional players paid to perform, not sign autographs, look good etc etc
You pick your best current players full stop
Or stop paying em
Your right but aren't these still Englands best current players
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That's the crux of it yeah
So dig around and find the next jimmy Anderson etc
They did it all those years ago, when he was pinging em down in the nets over there
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Your right but aren't these still Englands best current players
No, not on current form their not! If we lose and the series is over I'd drop all 3 and tell them they are going to have to earn their place back in the summer.
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I don't think any description can do that ball justice...
(https://i.imgur.com/vfNBZ2A.jpg)
To be fair to James 'million dollar' Vince...no one is playing that. :)
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To be fair to James 'million dollar' Vince...no one is playing that. :)
Geoffrey would have seen it off with a solid forward defence with his rhubarb :D
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The ball moved 19 inches on pitching Poor vince he is going to see it played on social media over and over....
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All of this s is good for England in the long term. Hopefully, after the ashes, Root will come to his senses and give up captaincy to focus on scoring runs and his career. Cook is done, he is just not consistent enough. It’s time for England to train a new top order batsman. These newbies are showing heart and fight! 👌
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That delivery is as close to actually unplayable as you are ever going to get - the only guy with a hope, ironically, would be the rabbit tailender poking his bat nervously where h thinks it might go - and then only by pure dumb luck.
On selection, I would not rush to throw baby out with the bathwater here. A lot of the difference in this series has been down to conditions that suit one team massively (same squads in English conditions, we win), and to a lack of conviction in the England side arising from the Bristol incident and von Strauss' apallingly bad management of the situation. Ask yourself, had that not happened, would the series be the same (no - we would probably still lose, but it'd be a lot closer).
In terms of selection, the only real issue I can see is around the bowling being so samey. That is not an easy one to solve and anu solution would have been a mahoooosive punt. Some have mentioned Plunkett, but he has taken single figures of first class wickets in the last two seasons, others have asked for a left armer, but the options - Garton, Footitt, Sam Curran, Willey etc - are not of the required class (yet).
If we lose here, I'd like them to make changes - blood Foakes and Curran, perhaps Crane too - ahead of the tour in four years time. But come NZ nothing much will have changed.
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Looks like roots doing his best to convince the umps the pitch is unfit for play.
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With the water that got underneath the covers it doesn't look promising. Not that I'm complaining, mind.
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With the water that got underneath the covers it doesn't look promising. Not that I'm complaining, mind.
Yeah, what a terrible blunder by the ground staff. Probably ruined a 5-0. Thnx guys....
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If we get 3 hrs at them, and get either bairstow or malan early we are a chance.
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This was Vaughans photo of the wicket this morning.
Proper WACA wicket... I don't think there is many places in the world where the cracks become so distinctive on a pitch on the final day.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bc09_7wjlVh/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/Bc09_7wjlVh/)
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:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Congrats to the Aussies. Completely outplayed us in every department.
Now what are we going to do to try and salvage some pride.
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Well done aussies
Boycs talking the truth on bt interview
We are crap, and the lads in county cricket at the moment are crap
The county chairman need the money to grow the county game not stay out of debt
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Aussies are clearly the better side in these conditions and fully deserve to be 3-0 up, the most frustrating thing is that we've been in really good positions in all 3 games, and yet have somehow managed to lose every single key money and end up with 1 heavy defeat and two absolute bummings.
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Only positive from this whole series so far has been Malan, if there was an advertisement for the state of bowling options in county cricket then this match was probably the one
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Its not all doom and gloom guys.... I know a 3-0 scoreline after 3 test matches is hard to swallow, but I think you guys have unearthed some genuine batting prospects for the future.
Stoneman looks the goods as an opener - he is composed and is a tough competitor
Vince is the perfect No3 who should be given a run at this position for a long time. The best number 3's in world cricket have been players who take the game to the opposition and Vince is definitely a glorious timer of the ball who has all the shots. He just needs to learn to rotate the strike a little more rather than dealing in boundaries - Great Prospect.
Malan has been impressive and also has all the shots. Plays quick bowling with relative ease and possesses an excellent pull shot - Seams to have time to play the ball.
If you can find a decent opener to replace Cook when he leaves and fast track Mason Crane as your number 1 spinner, when Stokes comes back into the team, your side is a decent lineup.
Here is a curve ball for you boys to debate over - Is Bairstow's technique good enough to allow him to open ? If so, this would allow Foakes to come into the team as a keeper given he is highly rated in England.
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I think Foakes now will get his opportunity as a keeper/batsman now that the test series is basically over
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Bairstow is a very good player - I have long said probably our best bat - but I think he needs to be given a solid slot and allowed to stay there rather than casting him in to whatever gap exists at a given moment. There is also an issue with teh fact that he actively wants to keep and is prone to a bit of sulking...
If Cook is finished - and I think that has to be considered a possibility - then we probably should be looking at:
Stoneman
X
Malan
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
X
Ali
then three bowlers. I am not yet convinced by Vince - he has played a couple of really good innings, but gets out the same way far too often - but he could do a good job lower in the order.
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Last time Eng won the Ashes in Aus: 2011
Last time Aus won the Ashes in Eng: 2001
P.s. I think that Broad is done. Tom Curran should be in for the last two games. It won't make a difference to the result, but he is worth investing in.
I also like Selvey's suggestion that Cook should go back to working with Gooch.
P.p.s. the Kiwis will be very very tough to beat this summer.
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Now the ashes have gone although they may not make a difference why not bring crane and wood into the side in place of Ali who is a batsman who does well with the ball in The UK Wood for Woakes good team man but ineffective with both bat and ball away from home keep Overton in if he's fit to assist his development.
As England need a battler low down the order find a spot for Balance
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Last time Eng won the Ashes in Aus: 2011
Last time Aus won the Ashes in Eng: 2001
Aus Ashes test wins: 133
Eng Ashes test wins: 102
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I also like Selvy's suggestion that Cook should go back to working with Gooch.
I agree. I know Cook is a peak and troughs player but am I right in thinking he was working with Gooch during that 09-12 period where he was basically unstoppable?
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Now the ashes have gone although they may not make a difference why not bring crane and wood into the side in place of Ali who is a batsman who does well with the ball in The UK Wood for Woakes good team man but ineffective with both bat and ball away from home keep Overton in if he's fit to assist his development.
As England need a battler low down the order find a spot for Balance
There aren't many suggestions I would agree with here.
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The lack of application by this current England team is worrying.
The management has been poor, both during and before the start of the series.
Boycott reckons the counties are to blame, and questions have to be asked for the future of the game going forward.
If it's t20, and the whole entertainment thing,then it's a shame
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Something I found interesting, although maybe irrelevant, Cook only averages 39 in Aus and SA vs 45 career. Seen as he's such a good player off his back foot, I personally thought he'd have a better average in those countries combined that'd be considered 'faster, bouncier' wickets. I knew he only really had one good ashes in Aus but still expected to see something different.
As for this series, where to start? It's worrying when the better players have been the ones in their test infancy.
Cook, not sure if he's completely focussed, will personal goal motivate him now he's no longer captain? He's achieved everything possible for England hasn't he (I don't want him dropped btw I think he magnificent, just asking the question)
Root has had far too much sh*t to deal with imo for a first series abroad, esp an ashes series.
Vince jury still out for me.... 2 starts hasn't pushed on very 'flashy' would like to see some grit. but looked better than his previous attempt at test cricket imo.
Ali very frustrating that he had to be told he wasn't Englands first choice spinner in the summer, but also don't think he's fully fit after his side strain and finger.
Ball. what does he do that plunkett doesn't? I understand that plunkett barely bowled in CC last season (42 overs from bumble on twitter) but surely that's Yorkshire managing his workload to get the best/quickest from him when it mattered to them?
Broad just hasn't looked right bar one spell where he showed some pace in the 2nd test, always a streaky bowler seems to be its 4-6 wkts or not much unfortunately he's just not found one of those magic spells.
I think there could be some changes for the final 2 not sure what, as the squad itself isn't one that's pushing for places, 1 change could be crane for Ali, so what the tail is weaker? Ali hasn't made the batting stronger so far has he?
But come NZ tour I think it'll be a pretty similar side to this, almost English conditions so stick to what you know and I expect JA,SB & CW to perform with the ball in more suitable conditions.
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Root has had a tough tour you could look at the following:
Lack of pace in our attack
Lack of quality spin
Let down by senior players
Let down by his own management
And a team minus Stokes is half a team-that’s the reality.
IMO he needs Cook going forward and Anderson
Whether broad still has it is a tough call
And we need Root back to the best batsman we have for years
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Root has had a tough tour you could look at the following:
Lack of pace in our attack
Lack of quality spin
Let down by senior players
Let down by his own management
And a team minus Stokes is half a team-that’s the reality.
IMO he needs Cook going forward and Anderson
Whether broad still has it is a tough call
And we need Root back to the best batsman we have for years
I pretty much agree mate, I think the major factor is Stokes missing, not just for the balance he brings to the side but the whole media circus and internal problems that the incident has brought along is the absolute last thing you need as a team when you're already getting it both barrels from the Aussies.
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To be fair, if Root had managed to kick on like say smith the couple of times he got set we might not be in this mess.
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Last time Eng won the Ashes in Aus: 2011
Last time Aus won the Ashes in Eng: 2001
Tests won in Eng since 2001: Aus - 8
Eng - 11
Tests won in Aus since 2001: Aus - 18
Eng - 4
Just sayin....
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Not sure county cricket is to blame for Broad falling over and forgetting how to hold his wrist properly. Or for Cook not getting any, or Moeen having a shocker.
Realistically, Australia always start favourites in their home conditions (I still think England would win this series at home), the big difference is that our players mostly fell into two categories - established players who we expected to do well, and rookies who we didn't really know about. Issue for us has been most of the key players have failed! Although at least some of the rookies have given a good account of themselves. Jimmy's bowled really well too, but he doesn't have the tools to take a side apart in Australia like at home.
Time for Broad to be told to fix his action and given a break to do it, and Moeen needs to bowl to stay in the side for me. With that in mind, I'd consider going back to four bowlers while we don't have that batting all-rounder. Foakes gets the gloves and YJB gets told to suck it up and score some runs.
Cook, Stoneman, Vince, Root, Malan, Bairstow, Foakes, Woakes, Overton if fit/Curran, Crane, Jimmy.
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Ball. what does he do that plunkett doesn't? I understand that plunkett barely bowled in CC last season (42 overs from bumble on twitter) but surely that's Yorkshire managing his workload to get the best/quickest from him when it mattered to them?
Not really - its a combination of one day call ups meaning he was not always available, combined wit the kicker that he is not actually a first choice pick at Yorkshire. Sidebottom, Brooks and Bresnan are. Coad came through at the start of the season and Patterson has tended to be the go-to. Meant that Drunky was a luxury pick in the Championship, much like Willey.
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One Test match ago, Dawid Malan was being called a 'waste of space'.
And I'm glad the 'jury is out' now, at least, on the highly-talented James Vince. Most people thought him a joke of a selection.
Two top batsmen never showed up. Bowling was always going to be ineffectual, although perhaps not to the extent we have seen.
As I have said before, the bigger pictue needs looking at, not just the players being picked.
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Not really - its a combination of one day call ups meaning he was not always available, combined wit the kicker that he is not actually a first choice pick at Yorkshire. Sidebottom, Brooks and Bresnan are. Coad came through at the start of the season and Patterson has tended to be the go-to. Meant that Drunky was a luxury pick in the Championship, much like Willey.
Good players sat on benches, while we're being told standards are poor in Div 2?
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I keep asking myself.... if we are being brutally honest, with the squad that we took over and if the Aussie quicks stayed fit, did we actually think we would compete in these conditions?
the answer has to be no.
yes maybe the margin of the defeats might/should have been smaller but none the less winning in Oz is ridiculously difficult, especially when you are missing players, have off field issues and a number of debutantes etc....
So i actually find myself looking for the positives....
1. Stoneman - We have finally found a partner for Cook - impressed by how he has handled himself and he will surely only get better
2. Malan - our batsman of the tour and i think could actually move to number 3
3. Overton - thoroughly impressive young man - bowled well, kept running in for his captain - even with a busted rib - and also then to walk out to bat when the game was over when you know you are going to get pinned.
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I think you can tentatively add Vince to that, he was 'unlucky' when set in the first test and showed real grit yesterday before getting one with his name on it. If he can put away the big drive outside off until he's set in the final 2 tests then he will be set for a good run in the side.
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Definitely add vince
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Cant really expect the new guys to win you games when the seniors in the team continue to fail. Cook and Root have been well below average and that has put a lot of burden on the other guys.
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Cant really expect the new guys to win you games when the seniors in the team continue to fail. Cook and Root have been well below average and that has put a lot of burden on the other guys.
As the experienced batsmen i wonder what Cook, Root, Bairstow and Ali's combined returns have been.
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England's biggest problem is that nobody else can be captain. Root is not up for it - yes, he may be a "very good" captain, but it is affecting his batting. He did not lead from the front (with the bat) like Smith.
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Isn't Pat Cummins a glorious cricketer?
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As the experienced batsmen i wonder what Cook, Root, Bairstow and Ali's combined returns have been.
Malan - 302 / 50.33
Bairstow - 241 / 40.16
Stoneman - 193 / 32.16
Vince - 182 / 30.33
Root - 176 / 29.33
Ali - 116 / 19.33
Woakes - 88 / 14.66
Cook - 83 / 13.83
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England's biggest problem is that nobody else can be captain. Root is not up for it - yes, he may be a "very good" captain, but it is affecting his batting. He did not lead from the front (with the bat) like Smith.
Not affecting it too much, although I will admit I thought it would be a lot lower for when he is captain!
is captain 2017-2017 10 18 0 905 190 50.27 1430 63.28 2 7 0 131 1
is not captain 2012-2016 53 98 11 4594 254 52.80 8352 55.00 11 27 3 507 15
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Left field choice - Vince for captain
He's skippered Hampshire for yonks and has previously captained the Lions.
Oh, to have James Taylor back :(
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Not affecting it too much, although I will admit I thought it would be a lot lower for when he is captain!
is captain 2017-2017 10 18 0 905 190 50.27 1430 63.28 2 7 0 131 1
is not captain 2012-2016 53 98 11 4594 254 52.80 8352 55.00 11 27 3 507 15
he's averaging 50, but not scoring enough (sounds funny, i know).. way too many pretty 50s.
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he's averaging 50, but not scoring enough (sounds funny, i know).. way too many pretty 50s.
I agree, big time.
I was shocked as much as anything to see that it was as close as this, however his penchant for making 50's and not 100's was already in full flow prior to him becoming captain.
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If Benji is cleared from charges, he should be slotted for captaincy ASAP and relieve Root for run scoring. As much a fan I am of Cook, his time has come. Time to get some young guys in the England squad.
I didn't think Speedy had it in him but he was superb in this series!
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A captain is only as good as his team.
I don't think root should have been made captain in the first place, best players don't always make good leaders. My experiences have been they can't convey their point clearly, then can't understand why others can't perform what they can/want.
But there's no outstanding candidate to me, From the way he speaks to the media I think Bairstow could make a good captain but he's not much experience as a skipper let alone him having gloves and expected to perform with bat its too much.
You can't take the job from root after a year in the job. Got to let him reshuffle the pack and get the team he wants, now is the perfect chance after a, so far, humbling series defeat when most expected a bit more competitiveness.
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Most of current good teams are selecting based on form. After just one bad series, India dropped Rahane, Aus dropped Handscomb, SA dropped De Kock etc despite great performances before their bad form kicked in. And in all cases, newcomers have performed despite criticisms selectors faced initially. One thing is clear, international cricket is not the venue to work your way out of a bad form, you should be in form already and hit the ground running. However Eng keep persisting with Cook despite repeated failures against top sides in last 5 years. Even England ODI side was able to turn tide few years ago after making bold decisions and getting rid of "reputation" players who haven't performed. Unless England dare to drop Cook (and let him work his way back into team based on performance just like everybody else), they won't improve. You can't win games against difficult oppositions having an opener who is a sitting duck to any form of good bowling. To add to it, the way Cook looks at the crease is so tentative and nervous-like, it doesn't help the other batsmen mentally either.
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Yes, but none of them had 150 tests, and 11,000 runs behind them.
If he wants to stop playing, let him, if he wants to carry on, let him. He deserves at least that much for everything he has given England cricket. We'll just end up with a Chanderpaul situation, where they get rid of an excellent senior pro, don't give him the respect he deserves and then he smashes up county attacks for fun.
That's where the issue lies, county cricket simply isn't good enough to produce / prepare players for test match cricket.
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@19reading87 I was wrong about Tim Paine
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A captain is only as good as his team.
I don't think root should have been made captain in the first place, best players don't always make good leaders. My experiences have been they can't convey their point clearly, then can't understand why others can't perform what they can/want.
But there's no outstanding candidate to me, From the way he speaks to the media I think Bairstow could make a good captain but he's not much experience as a skipper let alone him having gloves and expected to perform with bat its too much.
You can't take the job from root after a year in the job. Got to let him reshuffle the pack and get the team he wants, now is the perfect chance after a, so far, humbling series defeat when most expected a bit more competitiveness.
I think root could reshuffle and get the team he wants but it might not be the best team available
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I think root could reshuffle and get the team he wants but it might not be the best team available
Didn't he used to share a flat with Gary Ballance?
I have just seen the future of England's No.3 position :(
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Didn't he used to share a flat with Gary Ballance?
I have just seen the future of England's No.3 position :(
yes he did, this bothers me somewhat!
weve seen that root likes ballance in the team already he picked him vs South Africa remember or that how it appeared anyway
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Most of current good teams are selecting based on form. After just one bad series, India dropped Rahane, Aus dropped Handscomb, SA dropped De Kock etc despite great performances before their bad form kicked in. And in all cases, newcomers have performed despite criticisms selectors faced initially. One thing is clear, international cricket is not the venue to work your way out of a bad form, you should be in form already and hit the ground running. However Eng keep persisting with Cook despite repeated failures against top sides in last 5 years. Even England ODI side was able to turn tide few years ago after making bold decisions and getting rid of "reputation" players who haven't performed. Unless England dare to drop Cook (and let him work his way back into team based on performance just like everybody else), they won't improve. You can't win games against difficult oppositions having an opener who is a sitting duck to any form of good bowling. To add to it, the way Cook looks at the crease is so tentative and nervous-like, it doesn't help the other batsmen mentally either.
Cook have averaged 33.5 vs SA and 60.8 vs WI. It’s not really droppable form since he gave up the captaincy. It’s only now he is struggling.
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yes he did, this bothers me somewhat!
weve seen that root likes ballance in the team already he picked him vs South Africa remember or that how it appeared anyway
To be fair, Ballance was picked on form vs SA. He was averaging something like 100 in CC at the time.
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Is this the bit where we pretend that Stokes bowls 95mph thunderbolts which would have differentiated himself from the rest of the attack, Mason Crane (FC average 44) is the answer to all our problems, where Mark Wood isn't an injury prone bowler who just took 1 for 197 across two tests this summer before getting injured and Liam Plunkett played more than two FC games for Yorkshire all season and is therefore totally fit enough to play a test series in Australia?
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That's where the issue lies, county cricket simply isn't good enough to produce / prepare players for test match cricket.
I don't agree with this. Many of the 'Great' West Indies players of the 70's & 80's said they came to play county cricket as a type of 'finishing school' to get overs and runs under their belt. There are many world class players that have come through county cricket over the years: Botham, Willis, Gower, Gooch, Atherton, Thorpe, Stewart, Gough, Russell, Flintoff, Harmison, Hoggard, Trescothick, Strauss, Cook, KP, Root, Anderson, Broad, Swann & Stokes to name a few. The fact is county cricket produces cricketers who are suited to English conditions which isn't the same as playing in Indian, SA or Australia. The key is recognising players who can thrive at the next level and have the right skills set and temperament to perform in and outside of England. This is where we are all to often found wanting, especially on this tour.
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To be fair, Ballance was picked on form vs SA. He was averaging something like 100 in CC at the time.
But had refused to change his technique which led to failure and was found out again....
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I don't agree with this. Many of the 'Great' West Indies players of the 70's & 80's said they came to play county cricket as a type of 'finishing school' to get overs and runs under their belt. There are many world class players that have come through county cricket over the years: Botham, Willis, Gower, Gooch, Atherton, Thorpe, Stewart, Gough, Russell, Flintoff, Harmison, Hoggard, Trescothick, Strauss, Cook, KP, Root, Anderson, Broad, Swann & Stokes to name a few. The fact is county cricket produces cricketers who are suited to English conditions which isn't the same as playing in Indian, SA or Australia. The key is recognising players who can thrive at the next level and have the right skills set and temperament to perform in and outside of England. This is where we are all to often found wanting, especially on this tour.
Anderson?
How long did he play county?
I know he went back to Lancashire when the England idiots dropped him for his action for a bit
Wasn't aware he played much before tho
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A big problem is the way county cricket has been sidelined in favour of T20. The best part of the summer is dedicated to T20 games because they bring in the money, there are a couple of periods where teams have almost an entire month off between county championship games which is bonkers. There are as many games played in April as there are in July and August combined.
If first class games are going to be played predominantly on early season juicy green wickets instead of roads baked in the summer sun then is it any surprise that the system churns out stereotypical English seamers who put it outside off at 80-84 mph and hope for the best?
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No he hadn't played much but that was where he was spotted. There is talent in county cricket, but I'm not sure it's always been identified. Temperament as well as skill is important to step up, and that's not just a team player. Determined, driven - who has this is? That is what they should be looking for as well as potential.
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Well played Australia! England have to improve a lot if they wish to finish the series 3-2.
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best players don't always make good leaders. My experiences have been they can't convey their point clearly, then can't understand why others can't perform what they can/want.
Steve Smith proves you wrong! But I agree, some of the great players are incapable of conveying their point clearly and can't really understand why others fail to perform.
Root has spent less than a year in this role. If he feels that its holding him back, then he should give up captaincy. If he feels it too early to make such calls. Either way, it should be Root's call rather than ECB meddling with it.
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Left field choice - Vince for captain
He's skippered Hampshire for yonks and has previously captained the Lions.
Oh, to have James Taylor back :(
That is pretty left field. In the modern game perhaps the role of the captain has changed, there is a lot of support now it's not like the skipper has to organise everything from team tactics,selection and the Christmas fancy dress.
I'm not saying one of us hackers could captain the team, what I'm saying its it's less important now who does it than previously .
The most important thing is we compete, and our very best players are un burdened.
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No he hadn't played much but that was where he was spotted. There is talent in county cricket, but I'm not sure it's always been identified. Temperament as well as skill is important to step up, and that's not just a team player. Determined, driven - who has this is? That is what they should be looking for as well as potential.
Also bravehearts fighters guys who stand up make the most of what they have got take them every time
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Is root a bad skipper? Seems a lot more proactive and creative than Cook or Strauss ever were.
I think he's still the best bet at the moment, and I reckon his batting will be fine. As previously mentioned, he's always had a poor conversion rate.
This is quite possibly the best team we could have sent. The fact that Stoneman, Vince and Malan have all stood up at various points is encouraging, as they were the perceived weak points. Unfortunately the rest of the team just hasn't performed.
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Once again Dobell is spot on.....
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21805721/ecb-decade-errors-led-ashes-failure (http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21805721/ecb-decade-errors-led-ashes-failure)
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Tests won in Eng since 2001: Aus - 8
Eng - 11
Tests won in Aus since 2001: Aus - 18
Eng - 4
Just sayin....
Also ,
Last time oz won a test in eng : 2015
Last time eng won a test in oz : 2011
Whitewashes since 2001 :
Eng : 0
Oz : 2 ( soon 3 ?)
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England will not be competitive in an away ashes series until we discover 2 genuine 90mph bowlers fact. The Aussie conditions will never favour an attack of 80-85mph swing bowlers.
I’m not overly up on the County prospects but I’m not sure we have any in that bracket at all do we?? We see a few bowl 90mph odd for a few overs in T20 but not on a consistent basis. Add in the lack of a decent spinner be that holding or attacking and we will struggle to beat any top tier test side away from Home.
Last time we chucked our beat batsmen of my generation in KP under the bus for the performance in Aus and I honestly think we need to do the same with our bowlers. Broad is done for me as is Ali as a front line bowler, as a lower order bat maybe.
Cook for me is still one of the best opening batsmen in Test cricket although this has been a very poor series, dropping him after 150 tests based on 3 games and 6 innnings in silly talk in my humble opinion. Just as silly as this talk of taking the gloves away from Bairstow. We actually have Batting options and have seen Malan and Stoneman come good and Vince although not to the same degree so time to leave the batsmen alone after this series I think and fix what we have all known deep down is quite a weak bowling line up anywhere away from Blighty
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England will not be competitive in an away ashes series until we discover 2 genuine 90mph bowlers fact. The Aussie conditions will never favour an attack of 80-85mph swing bowlers.
I’m not overly up on the County prospects but I’m not sure we have any in that bracket at all do we?? We see a few bowl 90mph odd for a few overs in T20 but not on a consistent basis. Add in the lack of a decent spinner be that holding or attacking and we will struggle to beat any top tier test side away from Home.
Last time we chucked our beat batsmen of my generation in KP under the bus for the performance in Aus and I honestly think we need to do the same with our bowlers. Broad is done for me as is Ali as a front line bowler, as a lower order bat maybe.
Cook for me is still one of the best opening batsmen in Test cricket although this has been a very poor series, dropping him after 150 tests based on 3 games and 6 innnings in silly talk in my humble opinion. Just as silly as this talk of taking the gloves away from Bairstow. We actually have Batting options and have seen Malan and Stoneman come good and Vince although not to the same degree so time to leave the batsmen alone after this series I think and fix what we have all known deep down is quite a weak bowling line up anywhere away from Blighty
Apart from the great West Indies side of the 80's, most top class test bowling teams have had a very good,or great, or a very effective holding, spin bowler...
Who would your spinner be for England ?
It might of helped if we could at least of had a change of angle, left arm over, instead of all right arm medium pace with minimal movement(which you don't get that much of in Oz. So even without express pace just some variety would at least of made them think a bit.
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Apart from the great West Indies side of the 80's, most top class test bowling teams have had a very good,or great, or a very effective holding, spin bowler...
Who would your spinner be for England ?
It might of helped if we could at least of had a change of angle, left arm over, instead of all right arm medium pace with minimal movement(which you don't get that much of in Oz. So even without express pace just some variety would at least of made them think a bit.
Here is piers Morgan answering your question: https://youtu.be/oer3826ahs4
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Here is piers Morgan answering your question: https://youtu.be/oer3826ahs4
Thanks ! Hmmm. Panesar at this best got good players out but for whatever reason he did not take over when Swann retired. It's odd to think now we had both Swann and panesar together although only very briefly available at their best for England.
But that's the past.
I think myself it's a hard question to answer, I think crane will play the last two tests, and I think if stokes would of played this series, that would of created a gap to play 2 spinners without weakening the batting (stokes at 6, Bairstow 7)
But what's done is done. England have to find about about Crane and he is on the tour.
:)
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If we don't play Crane in the last 2 tests, you have to ask what was the point in taking him at all.
With possibily Overton and Broad injured and it obviously being a dead rubber it is an ideal scenario to get Crane in.
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I will say this - Ive been in Australia a week now and it is noticeable that cricket means alot more to people in Australia than England. The average man, woman or child in Australia is alot more likely to have an interest in the sport. The players are bigger celebrities, feature in tv adverts, billboards etc. The country gets right behind their team - the media got stuck into England from the off as we know and there are support banners alongside roads, in towns and airports with the #beatengland
Outside a small niche of cricket fans in England no one really cares about cricket. Most of my mates wouldnt have a clue who Ali Cook or Joe Root were if they bumped into them in a pub! Steve Smith and David Warner by comparison are all over tv here and married to celebs/ex models (warner came 2nd to Sonny Bill) despite looking like extras from The Hills have Eyes and needing tutoring to be comfortable with joined up handwriting
Make what you want of that its just an observation. Ive been to India aswell and that is a whole different level of passion but Australia definitely care more than England
Also bravehearts fighters guys who stand up make the most of what they have got take them every time
Like Paul Collingwood, the ultimate scrapper
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England will not be competitive in an away ashes series until we discover 2 genuine 90mph bowlers fact. The Aussie conditions will never favour an attack of 80-85mph swing bowlers.
I’m not overly up on the County prospects but I’m not sure we have any in that bracket at all do we?? We see a few bowl 90mph odd for a few overs in T20 but not on a consistent basis. Add in the lack of a decent spinner be that holding or attacking and we will struggle to beat any top tier test side away from Home.
Last time we chucked our beat batsmen of my generation in KP under the bus for the performance in Aus and I honestly think we need to do the same with our bowlers. Broad is done for me as is Ali as a front line bowler, as a lower order bat maybe.
Cook for me is still one of the best opening batsmen in Test cricket although this has been a very poor series, dropping him after 150 tests based on 3 games and 6 innnings in silly talk in my humble opinion. Just as silly as this talk of taking the gloves away from Bairstow. We actually have Batting options and have seen Malan and Stoneman come good and Vince although not to the same degree so time to leave the batsmen alone after this series I think and fix what we have all known deep down is quite a weak bowling line up anywhere away from Blighty
I have no idea what he is like or have really seen anything of him but I heard a comment during the test match that Overton’s brother is a 150kph bowler... Anyone know anything of him? Is he any good?.. What about Wood?... It’s a pity Tymal Mills isn’t a left arm option
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I have no idea what he is like or have really seen anything of him but I heard a comment during the test match that Overton’s brother is a 150kph bowler... Anyone know anything of him? Is he any good?.. What about Wood?... It’s a pity Tymal Mills isn’t a left arm option
Jamie Overton is rapid but like anyone with pace these days is always injured and therefore not really a viable option.
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Looking ahead four years, we have contenders, but none who are ready right now.
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Plenty of them also don't play much 4 days stuff as so much of it is played early doors, so in terms of results you're better picking your 38 year old line and length, hit the seam dobbler, than the tearaway 21 year old quick.
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Sussex have a quick of Barbadian origin with an English father
Where he is just sharp or genuinely quick I’m not sure.
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Sussex have a quick of Barbadian origin with an English father
Where he is just sharp or genuinely quick I’m not sure.
Jofra Archer, haven't seen him play but rumor is he bowls gas.
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There was a great tweet about the leading bowlers in Aussie first class cricket over the last few years.
Most of them are medium fast. Draw your own conclusions.
Also, last time England had an express fast bowler in Australia it was Sajid Mahmood. That went well.
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There was a great tweet about the leading bowlers in Aussie first class cricket over the last few years.
Most of them are medium fast. Draw your own conclusions.
Also, last time England had an express fast bowler in Australia it was Sajid Mahmood. That went well.
One of Australia’s best in Glenn McGrath wasn’t rapid... Just bowled beautiful line and length... Australia have had plenty of good medium fast bowlers over the years.
I think the “England have no fast bowlers” is a poor excuse for, at times, very ordinary bowling... Even from the most experienced
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Jofra Archer, haven't seen him play but rumor is he bowls gas.
I think i read somehwere he's playing in the BBL for hobart (possibly the bbl thread), be interesting to see if he is genuine fast.
he bats too!
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Archer is sharp but mid to late 80s rather than 90+ every day
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Can't we just feed out bowlers whatever it is they have been feeding Hazelwood, pretty sure he hasn't always been that quick? Has he been to Russia recently? ;)
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Wondering what England's approach will be in the next two tests with the series already lost..will they be willing to test the ones on the bench or will they be stubborn and stick to the side they have? Surely a couple of changes are needed atleast in the bowling department. For me, Broad and Moeen are just not good enough and dont deserve a place in the team.
Whats the general opinion on that?
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Sussex have a quick of Barbadian origin with an English father
Where he is just sharp or genuinely quick I’m not sure.
Seen Archer a few times last I heard the windes were taking an interest in him.
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Jofra Archer: Barbados-born Sussex seamer wants to play for England
"I think the conditions over here suit me a lot more than anywhere else. I feel I would be better suited for a longer career in England"
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Reading the comments about McGrath and Hazlewood led me to realise that a lot of people are slightly misunderstanding this issue. It is not that England need three or four guys who bowl constantly above 90mph, its that they need guys who are built to bowl in Australian conditions. McGrath was built for it - he was tall, had an action that maximised his height, and bowled high 80s. Much like Hazlewood actually.
When England have won in Australia in my lifetime, they have either played shockingly bad teams, or, as in 2011, have taken a lot of bowlers with some or all of these attributes (Tremlett and Finn were tall, Bresnan hit a groove in the high 80s etc).
This time, we have a gifted swing bowler, in Jimmy. Then we have Overton, who is good but not ready, Woakes, who is unsuitable and - worryingly - Broad, who ought to be good in the conditions but is not
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Reading the comments about McGrath and Hazlewood led me to realise that a lot of people are slightly misunderstanding this issue. It is not that England need three or four guys who bowl constantly above 90mph, its that they need guys who are built to bowl in Australian conditions. McGrath was built for it - he was tall, had an action that maximised his height, and bowled high 80s. Much like Hazlewood actually.
When England have won in Australia in my lifetime, they have either played shockingly bad teams, or, as in 2011, have taken a lot of bowlers with some or all of these attributes (Tremlett and Finn were tall, Bresnan hit a groove in the high 80s etc).
This time, we have a gifted swing bowler, in Jimmy. Then we have Overton, who is good but not ready, Woakes, who is unsuitable and - worryingly - Broad, who ought to be good in the conditions but is not
McGrath also had the skill of pressuring batsman stopping then scoring by landing 5 or six Balls an over in the spot.
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McGraths average bowling speed was a gentle 131kph (81mph) although he could bowl faster with extra effort. He was 6’4”.
Broad and Overton are 6’5” and Woakes and Jimmy are 6’2” and bowl around the 85mph + speed which all pretty much fit into your “built to bowl” in Australian conditions.
It comes down to the fact that England have bowled (No Swearing Please)... Sorry
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McGrath also had the skill of pressuring batsman stopping then scoring by landing 5 or six Balls an over in the spot.
Jimmy has limited the scoring from Australia... He has a terrific economy rate is the series so far... Australia have been patient, which they haven’t done in the past, and the other bowlers haven’t done the job at the other end
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Ali has been trashbag but that's maybe due - to some degree anyway - injury
Woakes has not shown what we hoped/expected him to
Broad has been very poor, offering not much control and virtually no threat.
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Jimmy has limited the scoring from Australia... He has a terrific economy rate is the series so far... Australia have been patient, which they haven’t done in the past, and the other bowlers haven’t done the job at the other end
seem to recall there were forum members who suggestied Anderson was past it and shouldn't tour and were calling for Woakes to lead the bowling attack.
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seem to recall there were forum members who suggestied Anderson was past it and shouldn't tour and were calling for Woakes to lead the bowling attack.
Don’t think it was this little black duck.... As much as I dislike him he is still a great bowler
Or maybe it was me 🧐🤪
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In terms of spin bowling the best is based on what i know and averages Leach at Somerset but for some reason we had doubts about his action!!! Never picked up by any umpires that I’m aware of.
As per rapid England bowlers if we do have some we need to protect them much like Aus did for this series, Central contract and limit the amount they bowl. For example could Tymal mills have been selected for this squad batting at 11 and bowling two 4/5 over spells of gas with new ball, basically like a T20 which is all he now plays. Jamie Overton or Jofra Archer the same is they are genuine quick as in 90mph for a 4/5 over spell. This means not bowling our potential has bowlers to death in CC.
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In terms of spin bowling the best is based on what i know and averages Leach at Somerset but for some reason we had doubts about his action!!! Never picked up by any umpires that I’m aware of.
As per rapid England bowlers if we do have some we need to protect them much like Aus did for this series, Central contract and limit the amount they bowl. For example could Tymal mills have been selected for this squad batting at 11 and bowling two 4/5 over spells of gas with new ball, basically like a T20 which is all he now plays. Jamie Overton or Jofra Archer the same is they are genuine quick as in 90mph for a 4/5 over spell. This means not bowling our potential has bowlers to death in CC.
Surely you couldn't pick a no 11 bat who was only going to bowl less than 8 overs a day? Plus can he even bowl 8 overs in a day? He doesn't play any 50 over cricket anymore I don't think.
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Pace is of no use if it is not backed with accuracy, guile, skill and discipline. Dont think putting someone who is express quick in the 11 is the answer. Definitely not against a team like Australia.
You need to bring your A game when you play Australia in Australia. You need a team with most (if not all) boxes checked. England squad was lacking in many departments and was hoping that the Australians perform equally poorly to make a contest of it. But that didnt happen, hence the 3-0 result.
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I think the lads we have brought in Stoneman, Vince and malan deserve to keep their spot been impressed with all 3 throughout yes Vince has played a loose shot or two but if you ask anyone on the County circuit who is technically the best bat they will tell you Vince. He works in straight lines and has a lot of time.
If you watch any of the videos of the Aussie batsmen in the nets against starc, Cummins, Hazelwood etc you'll see they don't play them any better than we do and in all honesty they have been the big difference between the two sides. Firmly believe our bowlers and off field issues is where this series has gone wrong. Yes we need one 90mph+ bowler in our side to rattle people but it's more the way our bowlers have bowled. It's like the plans they have used for each batsmen is for the UK not Australia. They Should've bowled alot straighter and fuller to the majority of their batsmen and put at least one of the many in slips into that leg side.
As for Ali he has lost all confidence and with the cut it hasnt helped he has lost all the late dip and extra revs he was getting earlier this year and has bowled very flat and quick throughout. Be good to see crane get a go if you follow the big bash at all you'll see the leggies go very well in the tournament and yes it's a different format but alot of the guys aren't very good at picking them I think you'll find Rashid got a few of the current aus team out before in this fashion.
Cook shouldn't have played either yes his experience etc is needed over there but it's quite evident when he is at the crease he is thinking about technique over watching the ball and the way his bats are having to be made for his needs says it all. Root and Bairstow have looked decent but again their conversion needs to be better.
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Vince and Malan do indeed deserve runs in the side - Vince a short one, Malan as long as it needs. But they would be better swapped now.
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As for Ali he has lost all confidence and with the cut it hasnt helped he has lost all the late dip and extra revs he was getting earlier this year and has bowled very flat and quick throughout. Be good to see crane get a go if you follow the big bash at all you'll see the leggies go very well in the tournament and yes it's a different format but alot of the guys aren't very good at picking them I think you'll find Rashid got a few of the current aus team out before in this fashion.
Difference is that in white ball cricket you can toss down a pick and mix selection of deliveries and grab wickets with long hops and full tosses because batsmen have to go after you. In tests batsmen just block three or four half decent deliveries and wait for the inevitable crap ball and you return figures of 1/80 from 21 overs.
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Also ,
Last time oz won a test in eng : 2015
Last time eng won a test in oz : 2011
Whitewashes since 2001 :
Eng : 0
Oz : 2 ( soon 3 ?)
Of course the series win column is the most important stat. But look beyond that and youll see Englands purported dominance over Australia in England is highly overstated. Ive read several people in this thread claim if the series were played in eng then the results would be reversed. Thats simply a fairytale to help Eng supporters sleep at night. Statistically/historically its just not accurate.
England in real danger of suffering yet another white-wash. Boof reported saying the shackles can now come off the Australian players for the last two tests. Scary for eng as so far Warner in particular has been VERY restrained.
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Can't we just feed out bowlers whatever it is they have been feeding Hazelwood, pretty sure he hasn't always been that quick? Has he been to Russia recently? ;)
In adelaide he bowled 3 of his 6 quickest ever deliveries . Instead of bowling 135kph ish with an occasional 138-9kph ball , he is consistently bowling 140+kph with the occasional ball up around 146kph . So , you are right ,he is bowling considerably quicker than he has previously .
Mozhet byt' , on byl v Rossii !!!!
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Surely you couldn't pick a no 11 bat who was only going to bowl less than 8 overs a day? Plus can he even bowl 8 overs in a day? He doesn't play any 50 over cricket anymore I don't think.
I’m certain conditions for certain tours why not?? Johnson was only bowing limited overs in the last ashes series and Starc has not bowled as many overs as the others. I was not making a case for Mills it particular more so that when we do discover have someone who is express pace we manage there workload to get the best out of them.
Is it any different to the amount of times a spinner is picked in test sides and doesn’t bowl in 1st innings and bowls minimal in 2nd because the conditions suit seam bowling?
My case is how do England nurture and use a talent when we find one like other countries do espically with there quicks
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The English team need to show some mongrel. Some attitude. Get a little bit nasty. Get a little boorish. Get in their face.
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The English team need to show some mongrel. Some attitude. Get a little bit nasty. Get a little boorish. Get in their face.
I’m sure they will.... Just let them finish their cup of Twinings and cucumber sandwiches
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Steve Smiths average in Boxing Day test matches = 127.6
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I’m certain conditions for certain tours why not?? Johnson was only bowing limited overs in the last ashes series and Starc has not bowled as many overs as the others. I was not making a case for Mills it particular more so that when we do discover have someone who is express pace we manage there workload to get the best out of them.
Is it any different to the amount of times a spinner is picked in test sides and doesn’t bowl in 1st innings and bowls minimal in 2nd because the conditions suit seam bowling?
My case is how do England nurture and use a talent when we find one like other countries do espically with there quicks
The difference to me is that if the track changes the spinner is able to bowl at lot more overs, if the track suits express pace Mills is still only giving you 8 overs a day it's just a poor rate of return imo. But I follow your logic regarding managing work load of express quicks, problem is all of ours can't bowl fast enough, long enough without breaking down injured, during his first Test run Wood was consistently bowling his first spell around 90mph, this summer his opening spells were only around 85mph which, if he's not moving the ball or bowling with control either, isn't a lot of use.
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The more I think about it the more the management need to take responsibility, the Aussies looked after there team and quicks for months prior to the Ashes, we picked a team of same bowlers
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The more I think about it the more the management need to take responsibility, the Aussies looked after there team and quicks for months prior to the Ashes, we picked a team of same bowlers
Exactly. Citing upcoming tours Aus management could rest their premium fast bowler Starc for the remaining two tests.
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Of course the series win column is the most important stat. But look beyond that and youll see Englands purported dominance over Australia in England is highly overstated. Ive read several people in this thread claim if the series were played in eng then the results would be reversed. Thats simply a fairytale to help Eng supporters sleep at night. Statistically/historically its just not accurate.
England in real danger of suffering yet another white-wash. Boof reported saying the shackles can now come off the Australian players for the last two tests. Scary for eng as so far Warner in particular has been VERY restrained.
Not at all a Fairytale England bowlers in the UK are experts at late swing in and out and that's without cloud cover and green tops morning dew Duke ball day night matches etc stats show in more recent times Aussie Backfoot batters in tests in the UK weren't that great.
And you never know jimmy could still be around hoop the ball around corners.
Can't wait for 2019 Ashes series.
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Exactly. Citing upcoming tours Aus management could rest their premium fast bowler Starc for the remaining two tests.
Yes 2 of the 3 quicks didn't tour shows how much Australia wanted these Ashes.
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Not at all a Fairytale England bowlers in the UK are experts at late swing in and out and that's without cloud cover and green tops morning dew Duke ball day night matches etc stats show in more recent times Aussie Backfoot batters in tests in the UK weren't that great.
And you never know jimmy could still be around hoop the ball around corners.
Can't wait for 2019 Ashes series.
I think you are grasping at straws here.. The main players left from the last series is Warner, Smith, Starc & Lyon. Hazlewood was inexperienced back then and is a far better bowler now. Mitch Marsh was there.. He wasn’t great with the bat but averaged 18 with the ball dismissing both Root and Stokes ( Stokes twice)
Are you forgetting how close the last series was?
1st Test - England by 169 runs
2nd Test - Australia by 405 runs
3rd Test - England by 8 wickets
4th Test - England by an innings and 8 runs
5th Test - Australia by 46 runs
Compare apples with apples these are 2 different sides and at the moment one is better than the other.... 2 years times it could be different again
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I think you are grasping at straws here.. The main players left from the last series is Warner, Smith, Starc & Lyon. Hazlewood was inexperienced back then and is a far better bowler now. Mitch Marsh was there.. He wasn’t great with the bat but averaged 18 with the ball dismissing both Root and Stokes ( Stokes twice)
Are you forgetting how close the last series was?
1st Test - England by 169 runs
2nd Test - Australia by 405 runs
3rd Test - England by 8 wickets
4th Test - England by an innings and 8 runs
5th Test - Australia by 46 runs
Compare apples with apples these are 2 different sides and at the moment one is better than the other.... 2 years times it could be different again
Haven't really compared apples
England with the above and in Uk like all home test teams will have the advantage regardless of who the English bowlers are they will know how to use the conditions more so than the Aussies and as we know bowlers win matches.
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Not denying your bowlers arent much better suited to home conditions, they clearly are. Im just saying, claiming england test = england win, almost as default, is a fairytale. Because history says its not a given.
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Way things are going, the Ashes should be played in South Africa, we might see some less predictable series then! Only thing that keeps Australia in it in in England is us being hospitable enough to roll out flat ones at Lord's and the Oval every series.
Probably time for Bayliss to be ushered off and someone who knows county cricket brought in. Given he's not a technical caoch I don't really see what he brings. Wasn't a fan of making Root captain but as he is he should get a he chance to rebuild the team his way, pick someone young and gusty as vice (Stokes would have been ideal!) and give Root a good hearing in selection meetings.
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Not denying your bowlers arent much better suited to home conditions, they clearly are. Im just saying, claiming england test = england win, almost as default, is a fairytale. Because history says its not a given.
I think the difference is that England will regularly take 20 wickets in England if needed, yet they struggle to take more than 10-12 in Australia.
And you know what they say, you have to take 20 wickets to win a test match.
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Probably time for Bayliss to be ushered off and someone who knows county cricket brought in
I’d like to see mick newell given the job and remain as selector
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Way things are going, the Ashes should be played in South Africa, we might see some less predictable series then! Only thing that keeps Australia in it in in England is us being hospitable enough to roll out flat ones at Lord's and the Oval every series.
Probably time for Bayliss to be ushered off and someone who knows county cricket brought in. Given he's not a technical caoch I don't really see what he brings. Wasn't a fan of making Root captain but as he is he should get a he chance to rebuild the team his way, pick someone young and gusty as vice (Stokes would have been ideal!) and give Root a good hearing in selection meetings.
Stokes as vice prior to this tour was prob the ideal for root and they are good friends.
I don’t think root should be captain full stop but it certainly looks like without Stokes senior players are not rallying round the captain. In any team you need to support the captain
Bayliss Morgan and farbrace have transformed our one day cricket but quite right test cricket we have become average.
If I were root, and Stokes is cleared, would he be able to resume vice captain duties, and would Root push for it?
Not sure but Stokes is pivotal to our side...
The old guard on the team don’t seem to be influencing things
Vince and Stoneman...could they become key figures? I’m not sure what to make of Vince, he has done pretty well at 3, Root knows he can bat there too.
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Not just rallying around the Captain seems to be not rallying around each other for ex where were they when Overton pulled up into his over they all knew he was bowling with a cracked rib no one went up to him.
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Stokes as vice prior to this tour was prob the ideal for root and they are good friends.
I don’t think root should be captain full stop but it certainly looks like without Stokes senior players are not rallying round the captain. In any team you need to support the captain
Bayliss Morgan and farbrace have transformed our one day cricket but quite right test cricket we have become average.
If I were root, and Stokes is cleared, would he be able to resume vice captain duties, and would Root push for it?
Not sure but Stokes is pivotal to our side...
The old guard on the team don’t seem to be influencing things
Vince and Stoneman...could they become key figures? I’m not sure what to make of Vince, he has done pretty well at 3, Root knows he can bat there too.
I think Stokes was/is the ideal vice for Root, rallies the troops round him when the chips are down.
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On another matter is anyone else fed up with the two bt Bell ends Vaughan and Swann ?
First we had MV mocking Cook now Swann wants Broad as captain !
Seriously he barely deserves to get in the side on recent performance
Didn’t think I would say this but missing the Sky team of Nasser Athers and bumble.
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On another matter is anyone else fed up with the two bt Bell ends Vaughan and Swann ?
First we had MV mocking Cook now Swann wants Broad as captain !
Seriously he barely deserves to get in the side on recent performance
Didn’t think I would say this but missing the Sky team of Nasser Athers and bumble.
Also read that Swann as spoken to Cook and he can't see any longlivity in cooks career unless he gets a big score to convince him to carry on.
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Also read that Swann as spoken to Cook and he can't see any longlivity in cooks career unless he gets a big score to convince him to carry on.
The captaincy took a toll on Cook he was not an instinctive skipper. We still need him opening I think until someone really makes a case to replace him.
Vaughan was a good captain and beating a great Aussie side in 05 was a great achievement - but look at the team he had then
We had genuine pace Jones and Harmision and quality batsmen-and Giles kept one end quiet.
05 was only one series and Root does not have that bowling ability now
Some of these old players and their comments really get on my tits
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Also read that Swann as spoken to Cook and he can't see any longlivity in cooks career unless he gets a big score to convince him to carry on.
If ever there was a man to listen to retirement advice from...
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On another matter is anyone else fed up with the two bt Bell ends Vaughan and Swann ?
First we had MV mocking Cook now Swann wants Broad as captain !
Seriously he barely deserves to get in the side on recent performance
Didn’t think I would say this but missing the Sky team of Nasser Athers and bumble.
Anyone who has seen more than three Michael Vaughan tweets knew what to expect and Swann has always been a (No Swearing Please) tbh.
The only pairing I enjoy on BT Sport is Alison Mitchell and Ricky Ponting. Everyone else is a downgrade in one way or another.
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I think i like Vaughan. Possibly because he's sinking the boots into his own. :D
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Just read in the local press about the australian rugby player Jarryd Hayne who has had a charge of rape brought against him in the US
Interested to see the follow up and hate campaign agianst him considering what was written about Stokes for what was basically over zealous self defence. I imagine this Hayne fella will have his house burnt down by the high browed Australian public. Or not.
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dont worry ....wait until 4Corners gets a hold of the story ...the pitchforks will certainly come out .
Hayne is a very divisive (love him or hate him type)personality to begin with.
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Just read in the local press about the australian rugby player Jarryd Hayne who has had a charge of rape brought against him in the US
Interested to see the follow up and hate campaign agianst him considering what was written about Stokes for what was basically over zealous self defence. I imagine this Hayne fella will have his house burnt down by the high browed Australian public. Or not.
Charge of rape? It's a he said / she said civil matter, no charges. Haynes not well liked but I can't see how this is similar to king hitting someone on camera, Hayne is denying all allegations.
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Charge of rape? It's a he said / she said civil matter, no charges. Haynes not well liked but I can't see how this is similar to king hitting someone on camera, Hayne is denying all allegations.
So you would say that what Stokes is accused of is worse than what Hayne is accused of?
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So you would say that what Stokes is accused of is worse than what Hayne is accused of?
Accusations are just that, there is proof in the Stokes issue. Don't see what kind of accusation it is makes a difference?
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Accusations are just that, there is proof in the Stokes issue. Don't see what kind of accusation it is makes a difference?
So to be clear - you are supporting Jarryd Hayne and dismissing this RAPE charge as unsubstantial. A proud Australian that would condemn a man for a punch up outside a pub but support a man who plied a virgin with alcohol and then forced himself upon her. God save your (No Swearing Please) queen
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So to be clear - you are supporting Jarryd Hayne and dismissing this RAPE charge as unsubstantial. A proud Australian that would condemn a man for a punch up outside a pub but support a man who plied a virgin with alcohol and then forced himself upon her. God save your (No Swearing Please) queen
So that’s what happened?
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Neither of them have been found guilty of anything. I suggest you all leave it at that.
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Does anyone else here feel that Michael Vaughan appears to have a fair bit of influence over/regular contact with a lot of current England players.
He doesn't seem to mind ripping then a new one when it's furthering his punditry career, I wonder how players feel around him after some of the things he's said about them. Surely it's a conflict of interest to be so cosy to a lot of the players.
Graeme Swann = great bowler. Crap pundit.
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So that’s what happened?
As reported in The Australian
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What do you guys expect Vaughan and Swann to do - tell you everything in the garden is rosy?
Have a word with yourselves - what do you think the ex-players on the media payroll were doing when they were both still playing?
They are earning a living and neither of them are way off message in what they are saying.
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Any bets on Swanny to become Englands spin bowling coach
Vaughan to become Englands batting coach.
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Any bets on Swanny to become Englands spin bowling coach
Vaughan to become Englands batting coach.
Swan had a call from Strauss about the spin bowling coach role. He was asking his opinion on Mushy I think, I'll see if I can find the article
Edit - here it is
https://www.wisden.com/stories/graeme-swann-england-spin-coach-moeen-ali-saqlain-mushtaq (https://www.wisden.com/stories/graeme-swann-england-spin-coach-moeen-ali-saqlain-mushtaq)
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So to be clear - you are supporting Jarryd Hayne and dismissing this RAPE charge as unsubstantial. A proud Australian that would condemn a man for a punch up outside a pub but support a man who plied a virgin with alcohol and then forced himself upon her. God save your (No Swearing Please) queen
So this is where clowns go when there is no circus?
What a blatant troll.
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So this is where clowns go when there is no circus?
What a blatant troll.
How offensive
The Australian press and public were all over Stokes for what he did, yet when one of their own commits what is in my eyes the scummiest crime in the world the outcry is far less
You may be good at sport but your morals are in the gutter
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How offensive
The Australian press and public were all over Stokes for what he did, yet when one of their own commits what is in my eyes the scummiest crime in the world the outcry is far less
You may be good at sport but your morals are in the gutter
Personally i havent followed the Hayne incident at all .... just going by your posts and the replies to them what i am getting from that is - stokes hasn't been charged , but there is evidence of him doing something ( and the possibility of a crime being committed was high enough for a police investigation to take place ) .
Hayne has had someone make an accusation against him ( as skip1973 said 'he said/she said' scenario ) , and there has been no other evidence /police investigation etc .
I think others are not saying that rape is a lesser crime than assault /g.b.h etc - I'm pretty sure no one here would suggest otherwise. Obviously , rape is far more insidious. If something more comes of this then people here , and the oz media, would drag hayne through the coals ( case in point : mathew johns, a former rugby league player and tv personality, a number of years ago was involved in an incident which resulted in him losing his job , reputation, popularity amongst the public etc ....even though , from memory , no charges were laid ).
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How offensive
The Australian press and public were all over Stokes for what he did, yet when one of their own commits what is in my eyes the scummiest crime in the world the outcry is far less
You may be good at sport but your morals are in the gutter
Stokes is on camera clearly doing what everyone says he has done?
Hayne is vehemently denying the accusations and the details are clouded in speculation, call me old fashioned but I like to make sure someone is at least guilty before getting my keyboard battle gear out. Anyone with half a brain thinks that crimes of this nature are vile and unspeakably evil. Get off your high horse. If haynes is found guilty, let the public judge him then.
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As reported in The Australian
If you are going to make accusations based on a newspaper then quote important “facts” from the articles.
For Instance:
“She quickly decided that if she reported to the police she would need some kind of proof and took [Hayne’s] undergarment in case there was need for testing,” The court documents allege.
Had supposed evidence but still didn’t report it for 6 months...
Somethings smells fishy and it’s not Haynes undergarments.
If he has done anything then string him up but please have solid evidence first... They didn’t proceed because there wasn’t sufficient evidence. Hayne fully cooperated with the district Attorney regarding the investigation.
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How offensive
The Australian press and public were all over Stokes for what he did, yet when one of their own commits what is in my eyes the scummiest crime in the world the outcry is far less
You may be good at sport but your morals are in the gutter
Im with you mate, this is unacceptable. The ACA need to drop this haynes bloke from the test squad immediately. No way should he take any further part in this Ashes series.
This is customrugby.co.uk isnt it?
Troll.
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These accustaions are not from me they are from a virginal girl, I am merely repeating what was reported in the newspaper
I expected the siege mentality from you aussie guys on here, another example of your blind patriotism - admirable in many ways
Maybe Hayne will be found innocent but also so may Stokes - I dont think the press treatment matches up considering their alleged offences
Im with you mate, this is unacceptable. The ACA need to drop this haynes bloke from the test squad immediately. No way should he take any further part in this Ashes series.
This is customrugby.co.uk isnt it?
Troll.
It may have escaped your attention but this isnt called customcricket either. So unless you only want to talk custom bats and that alone I suggest you get used to a variety of conversations
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Im with you mate, this is unacceptable. The ACA need to drop this haynes bloke from the test squad immediately. No way should he take any further part in this Ashes series.
This is customrugby.co.uk isnt it?
Troll.
I like funny posts . This was funny .
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"You can't fix stupid" - dont know who said it, but it was published in The Australian so it has to be true.
Anywhom, Boxing Day just around the corner, Ashes gone.. will england be playing with a new team? If they are to give crane a game, surely it is now.
Will Australia rest Starcs Bruised heel?
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New look team for England, Starc to rest... you heard it here so it must be true
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Starc will not play. I wonder how intense our boys will be now we have the series won. Im a little worried about this next test.
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According to TMS mason crane is due to debut
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According to TMS mason crane is due to debut
Hope so, though this a heap of times before about Leggers (Salisbury, Schofield, Rashid) but it’d be amazing if we could find a good in.
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"You can't fix stupid" - dont know who said it, but it was published in The Australian so it has to be true.
Anywhom, Boxing Day just around the corner, Ashes gone.. will england be playing with a new team? If they are to give crane a game, surely it is now.
Will Australia rest Starcs Bruised heel?
Making wholesale changes is not the way England do things I think even when they have been at the lowest its 3 max
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According to TMS mason crane is due to debut
I read that article as "he hasn't been told if he's playing or not, but if he gets the nod he's ready"
I thought it was an "I'm nearly on my Christmas holiday" article to be honest
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42452515 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42452515)
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Starc will not play. I wonder how intense our boys will be now we have the series won. Im a little worried about this next test.
both sides will want to win but
Regardless of how they talk it up once a series is won rarely the intensity is there.
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I read that article as "he hasn't been told if he's playing or not, but if he gets the nod he's ready"
I thought it was an "I'm nearly on my Christmas holiday" article to be honest
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42452515[/url] ([url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42452515[/url])
i saw a tweet saying he was due to play, hadn't seen this article :(
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both sides will want to win but
Regardless of how they talk it up once a series is won rarely the intensity is there.
I think that is the difference between England and Australia though.
When England were 3-0 up with 1 Test to play in 2013 they let their foot off the gas and handed debuts to Simon Kerrigan and Chris Woakes. While it was something of a "what if" with the light causing a draw, could you see Australia doing something similar?
Then in 2015 England were 3-1 up with 1 Test to play, and didn't even turn up in losing by an innings. I can't help but think the Aussies have a much more ruthless nature than us
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both sides will want to win but
Regardless of how they talk it up once a series is won rarely the intensity is there.
I wouldn't underestimate the Aussies appetite for a white-wash.
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I wouldn't underestimate the Aussies appetite for a white-wash.
Of course the Aussies want a 5- 0 win but will as the original OP asked with the same intensity.
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Of course the Aussies want a 5- 0 win but will as the original OP asked with the same intensity.
Huh? ;)
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Of course the Aussies want a 5- 0 win but will as the original OP asked with the same intensity.
I honestly think they will you know.
Was it any other series I'd agree with you, but this is the Ashes and the only thing the Aussie love more than beating the Poms is humiliating them!
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I honestly think they will you know.
Was it any other series I'd agree with you, but this is the Ashes and the only thing the Aussie love more than beating the Poms is humiliating them!
✔️
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Archer is sharp but mid to late 80s rather than 90+ every day
Bowling at 147kph in the BBL
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Bowling at 147kph in the BBL
Great,when does he qualify?!
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English father... He’s in
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If you are going to make accusations based on a newspaper then quote important “facts” from the articles.
For Instance:
“She quickly decided that if she reported to the police she would need some kind of proof and took [Hayne’s] undergarment in case there was need for testing,” The court documents allege.
Had supposed evidence but still didn’t report it for 6 months...
Somethings smells fishy and it’s not Haynes undergarments.
If he has done anything then string him up but please have solid evidence first... They didn’t proceed because there wasn’t sufficient evidence. Hayne fully cooperated with the district Attorney regarding the investigation.
If only there had been a news story or two this year that might explain why victims of sexual abuse often feel scared to come forward...
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An interesting article written by an Australian in an Australian paper.
On a big topic that I think was flown under the radar a bit - until the ashes was won.
https://amp.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/the-ashes/lest-we-already-have-forgotten-ashes-pace-barrage-offers-painful-reminder-20171221-h08vnf.html?__twitter_impression=true
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Very good point made by the article
And as stated, the law is there
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I love watching Australia beat the poms. I'll admit too, i enjoy the spectacle of seeing Australia beat up on the poms. But its not always comfortable viewing. Watching a brave but obviously fearful anderson facing the short ball was compelling but a little too visceral than i was prepared for. Im not so sure i should feel that way watching cricket. Maybe im just getting older. If its the quickest/only way to victory then its victory at all costs. And the first two words of that article reminds us of how great that cost can be. :(
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I love watching Australia beat the poms. I'll admit too, i enjoy the spectacle of seeing Australia beat up on the poms. But its not always comfortable viewing. Watching a brave but obviously fearful anderson facing the short ball was compelling but a little too visceral than i was prepared for. Im not so sure i should feel that way watching cricket. Maybe im just getting older. If its the quickest/only way to victory then its victory at all costs. And the first two words of that article reminds us of how great that cost can be. :(
Would never ever want victory at all costs no matter what's at stake it's a recipe for disaster.
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Curran will be playing in Melbourne apparently.
I am delighted for him. I suspect that he may hasten the end of Broad's career.
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Curran will be playing in Melbourne apparently.
I am delighted for him. I suspect that he may hasten the end of Broad's career.
Good to hear if true, although worry that he's not quite sharp enough at present for the top level. Broad is suffering from a technical problem I think, so hopeful that a drop leading to some hard work could see him back at his best.
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An interesting article written by an Australian in an Australian paper.
On a big topic that I think was flown under the radar a bit - until the ashes was won.
https://amp.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/the-ashes/lest-we-already-have-forgotten-ashes-pace-barrage-offers-painful-reminder-20171221-h08vnf.html?__twitter_impression=true
"It was this law that Anderson tried to bring to umpire Marais Erasmus' attention one day in Brisbane, not on his own behalf, but that of Jake Ball, who had just copped five bouncers in a row. Erasmus took no action."
Maybe Erasmus was worried about Test cricket's popularity and wanted to give kids something to watch.
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What absolute fluff.
Go on to You Tube and type in Freddie Flintoff bouncer and see what you find. Watch him repeatedly hit Brett Lee on the body to the cheers of the English crowd.
Matter of fact, its probably why Freddie was so well respected by the Australian cricketing public. Big, fearless, prepared to have a go, prepared to intimidate the oppo when needed.
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The article says that Ewen Chatfield swollowed his tongue. This is medically impossible, although I'm sure it was a very upsetting incident.
If the umpires in this series haven't been protecting England's tail why are we not giving it back to the Aussie tail? They might not be quite as quick, but I'm sure the umpires would do something if we just bowled bouncers at them.
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The article says that Ewen Chatfield swollowed his tongue. This is medically impossible, although I'm sure it was a very upsetting incident.
If the umpires in this series haven't been protecting England's tail why are we not giving it back to the Aussie tail? They might not be quite as quick, but I'm sure the umpires would do something if we just bowled bouncers at them.
The only people that would be in danger if England did that would be those in the crowd...
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The article says that Ewen Chatfield swollowed his tongue. This is medically impossible, although I'm sure it was a very upsetting incident.
If the umpires in this series haven't been protecting England's tail why are we not giving it back to the Aussie tail? They might not be quite as quick, but I'm sure the umpires would do something if we just bowled bouncers at them.
This is what that expression means: http://www.naturalhealingmagazine.com/how-to-give-first-aid-when-someone-swallows-their-tongue/ (http://www.naturalhealingmagazine.com/how-to-give-first-aid-when-someone-swallows-their-tongue/)
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Seen England bounce the likes of Sri Lanka and West Indies’ tail at Home plenty of times. Find it amusing now that it’s happening to them and their moaning.
The likes of atherton writing articles in the times in support of Anderson - never once heard him say on commentary that its dangerous when England do it. The irony!
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Curran will be playing in Melbourne apparently.
I am delighted for him. I suspect that he may hasten the end of Broad's career.
Doubt he will hasten the end of anyone's career what's he going to do get ten Aussie wickets.
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Doubt he will hasten the end of anyone's career what's he going to do get ten Aussie wickets.
Broad looks to be over the hill though. You can't keep retaining someone on past performance and the chance they might produce a magic spell once in a blue moon.
Curran doesn't need to take 10 poles, 1 would be an improvement on Broad's returns in the last Test...
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Broad looks to be over the hill though. You can't keep retaining someone on past performance and the chance they might produce a magic spell once in a blue moon.
Curran doesn't need to take 10 poles, 1 would be an improvement on Broad's returns in the last Test...
And an improvement on Woakes returns in the series.
Broad hasn't had many poor returns in a long england career he's a proven match winner maybe not this series but he will bounce back.
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Great,another up and down medium-paced trundler...
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And an improvement on Woakes returns in the series.
Broad hasn't had many poor returns in a long england career he's a proven match winner maybe not this series but he will bounce back.
Why bring Woakes into this? He'll be around for a long while yet and will likely take the new nut when Jimmy hangs up his boots.
Broad is 31 years old, down on pace and seems to lack the threat he used to pose.
In 2017 he has taken 25 wickets in 19 innings, at an average of 39.47.
Over his career he has 393 at 29.23, so it's clear to see his performances are on the slide.
As for returns in the Ashes, nobody (apart from Jimmy "past it & can't bowl in Australia" Anderson) has really given a good account of themselves?
I suppose you could argue Craig Overton has made a good start to his career under testing circumstances
James Anderson - 12 wickets at 25.83
Chris Woakes - 7 wickets at 51.57
Craig Overton - 6 wickets at 37.67
Stuart Broad - 5 wickets at 61.8
Moeen Ali - 3 wickets at 105.33
Joe Root - 1 wicket at 56
Jake Ball - 1 wicket at 115
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Broad has been there and done it got top batters out for a guy whos been around a while Woakes rarely produces match winning performances as for age Woakes is not that far behind Broad in this series at times broad bowled well and could have had wickets Woakes as bowled far to short
But yes if no one else is ready he may well take the new ball when jimmy finshes
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I thought you were a big Woakes fan @Seniorplayer ?
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Lads. Broad isn’t finished because we have the NZ and home series to go for at least the next 12montha. That means plenty of easy bunnies on friendly tracks. Same for Anderson and for woakes.
None of them are going anywhere because most people will simply dismiss this series as a ‘one off’ or ‘we just don’t suit the environment’. You can already hear people making excuses for players / coaches / counties about it all.. plus, you can see that some players are suddenly becoming the answer as they aren’t playing even though they will literally just as bad because they are from the same system and style.
Time to accept that England are green top bullies and just enjoy it when it’s swinging and seaming around like a trooper and people can claim everyone is world clsss again. Aus will struggle away because their batting won’t cope but again, just like us the Aussie media and fans will be in denial.
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I thought you were a big Woakes fan @Seniorplayer ?
Would be a big fan if he could win Matches for England with bat or ball
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That's a pretty blunt assessment RPC and an accurate one too.
Broad does not have a good record in Oz and so it has proved again. Most test teams struggle away from Home these days England are not alone in that.
We are actually competing more in this series than the Aussies did in England in the last series ,we just don't have the firepower to hit back with, or a good spin option in these conditions.
Woakes and broad are similar back of a length bowlers, without genuine pace they are not getting much out of it. The worry as well as Mo Ali....he doesn't look fully fit and/or short on confidence.
We need still to find another spinner and some pace-same problems we have had for years.jimmy is our most skilful bowler so not surprised he has the most wickets.
On the positive side, Overton,Stoneman and Malan and also Vince.....have done pretty well.
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It's quite simple - Broad is stuck rolling his wrist down the side of the ball at release instead of keeping it behind the ball, which is stopping him bowling quickly or moving it away. He's been doing it for a while and it's nothing to do with Australia! Take a look at his stats over the last 18-24 months, they're rubbish. If you back to any one of the famous Broad spells, what does he do? Bowls rapid and moves the ball away. If he can make the technique change he'll return to form no trouble at all, if he can't then he's cooked.
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Just seen that Tim Paine is a doubt for the 4th test and Peter Handscomb has been going through keeping drills. In their home country why couldn’t Australia simply call up another keeper?
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Just seen that Tim Paine is a doubt for the 4th test and Peter Handscomb has been going through keeping drills. In their home country why couldn’t Australia simply call up another keeper?
He is a wicket keeper... all be it occasionally
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Starc has been ruled out for boxing day test
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And Overton out
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And Smith in doubt after he got hit on the right hand from a Brancroft shot in the nets that ricocheted and hit him
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Really don't understand why the ECB didn't add Liam Dawson to the touring party once it was clearly evident that Moeen Ali was bowling dross. Dawson, obviously, isn't a world beater but a slow arm option would be good against these Aussies considering their struggles with Rangana Herath and Ravindra Jadeja.
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Really don't understand why the ECB didn't add Liam Dawson to the touring party once it was clearly evident that Moeen Ali was bowling dross. Dawson, obviously, isn't a world beater but a slow arm option would be good against these Aussies considering their struggles with Rangana Herath and Ravindra Jadeja.
Agree slow left arm
would have brought in a different angle but the selectors probably think Dawson's had enough opportunities nor could they have predicted moeens poor form and finger injury.
A better option on Aus tracks would be fast left arm spin
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Really don't understand why the ECB didn't add Liam Dawson to the touring party once it was clearly evident that Moeen Ali was bowling dross. Dawson, obviously, isn't a world beater but a slow arm option would be good against these Aussies considering their struggles with Rangana Herath and Ravindra Jadeja.
These are 2 top class bowlers you are talking about here. I understand your way of thinking but to compare Dawson against these 2 is a bit off the mark
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These are 2 top class bowlers you are talking about here. I understand your way of thinking but to compare Dawson against these 2 is a bit off the mark
Naturally Dawson isn't Herath nor Jadeja, but it's about mental disintegration. Aside from Steven Smith, lets be frank, Australia are rather uninspiring against spin. And as Moeen Ali displayed in the summer, he feasted off the mental disintegration R Ashwin put on the South Africans.
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Why wouldn’t you just play Mason Crane then?
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I'm not sure about mental disintegration but a left arm spinner in the original touring squad would at least of been some change from the right arm over medium England have. Dawson didn't do great in the summer but he is a decent player .
If Crane does not play tommorow you got to ask why he is in the squad-it would of been a wasted place if not.
On a different note for us bat nerds, Stoneman, I've just read, is not fussy about his bats, used a brand new one in the last match and has 7 bats on tour with him.
He says he picks any bat up and if it feels right in the hands then it will be right.
Is there a lesson for us clubbies here, there's many threads on grains, two tone willow,and different shapes...grade one plus wood etc...
Seems a simple way of choosing a bat to me, and if it's good enough for him ?
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Regarding Stonemans bats... How many has he broken this series so far? 🏏🤪
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Why wouldn’t you just play Mason Crane then?
Because Newberys are never seen in Australia?
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Because Newberys are never seen in Australia?
Ummmm 🙄🙄🙄
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Regarding Stonemans bats... How many has he broken this series so far? 🏏🤪
A couple and a rehandle from the last match as that got broken.
If you bat against a new ball on hard tracks against quicks bats get damaged.
I'd be a lot happier if our top 6 had all had damaged or broken bats, it means we would of spent more time at the crease.
You never played a club match your mate turns up with a 600 quid salix/Newbery/millichamp and then says he is batting 7 to avoid the new ball?
:)
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A couple and a rehandle from the last match as that got broken.
If you bat against a new ball on hard tracks against quicks bats get damaged.
I'd be a lot happier if our top 6 had all had damaged or broken bats, it means we would of spent more time at the crease.
You never played a club match your mate turns up with a 600 quid salix/Newbery/millichamp and then says he is batting 7 to avoid the new ball?
:)
Is that the same club mate that then proceeds to try and whack ever single delivery out the park with said new bat and then complains they’ve broken the toe??
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Media has been very tough on Root. They are not wrong but it seems unusually harsh!
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21852852/england-need-little-boy-joe-root-step-ricky-ponting (http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21852852/england-need-little-boy-joe-root-step-ricky-ponting)
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21861603/joe-root-got-listen-dawid-malan (http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21861603/joe-root-got-listen-dawid-malan)
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Media has been very tough on Root. They are not wrong but it seems unusually harsh!
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21852852/england-need-little-boy-joe-root-step-ricky-ponting[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21852852/england-need-little-boy-joe-root-step-ricky-ponting[/url])
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21861603/joe-root-got-listen-dawid-malan[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21861603/joe-root-got-listen-dawid-malan[/url])
Pro sport and being paid mega bucks., it should be a lot more honest and harsh than it is tbh
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Media has been very tough on Root. They are not wrong but it seems unusually harsh!
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21852852/england-need-little-boy-joe-root-step-ricky-ponting[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21852852/england-need-little-boy-joe-root-step-ricky-ponting[/url])
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21861603/joe-root-got-listen-dawid-malan[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21861603/joe-root-got-listen-dawid-malan[/url])
Yes they have been, Root finds himself in an uncomfortable position-as I mentioned earlier the reliance on Stokes is huge
I think this tour may see a new group emerging to take the team forward. Ponting is harsh but can you disagree with his comments?
Stoneman,Stokes,Root maybe malan and James Vince, if as Chappell says, can tough it out, maybe the new group
Anderson and broad had a big say under Cook. I don’t think Root should be captain-but if he is he needs a group going with him.A young captain needs help-time for some to step forward
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^ I suspect they all see that captaincy for Root is a mistake. England are better off with Root just batting and scoring runs. Leave captaincy to a player who has lot more grit than Root.
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^ I suspect they all see that captaincy for Root is a mistake. England are better off with Root just batting and scoring runs. Leave captaincy to a player who has lot more grit than Root.
Totally agree. Too much is made of who captains the team in the modern era.
People can hark back to players being better in their day-aside from Pietersen and Gooch, Root is the best player I’ve seen in 30 years watching England. The team needs his runs.
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Why wouldn’t you just play Mason Crane then?
Crane bowls a lot of rubbish, usually a left arm spinner offers more control. Either to be used attack or defence. Can't be going in with Moeen and Crane, Smith would have a field day
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Totally agree. Too much is made of who captains the team in the modern era.
People can hark back to players being better in their day-aside from Pietersen and Gooch, Root is the best player I’ve seen in 30 years watching England. The team needs his runs.
Also root needs to show he can score big runs in OZ no excuses the pitches suit his back foot batting
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Not just Root has to score big
Cooks gotta justify his place too, with a few big scores
I keep getting told , cooks wonderful still etc, and has 3000 runs in him yet etc etc
I just don't want him to take 5yrs to score them, it's not like his fielding warrants him a game.
Cook,Jimmy and broad big immediate question marks.
But they'll be allowed to plod on, and dictate terms to the ecb and the paying public I suspect
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Not just Root has to score big
Cooks gotta justify his place too, with a few big scores
I keep getting told , cooks wonderful still etc, and has 3000 runs in him yet etc etc
I just don't want him to take 5yrs to score them, it's not like his fielding warrants him a game.
Cook,Jimmy and broad big immediate question marks.
But they'll be allowed to plod on, and dictate terms to the ecb and the paying public I suspect
Thoughts were more Roots scored runs everywhere except in Aus.
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With everything that's gone on in the run up to the ashes starting and off field idiocy I'm not surprised roots concentration has lapsed a coupla times
Upto the management to rein their squad in , not the on field captain
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A couple and a rehandle from the last match as that got broken.
If you bat against a new ball on hard tracks against quicks bats get damaged.
I'd be a lot happier if our top 6 had all had damaged or broken bats, it means we would of spent more time at the crease.
You never played a club match your mate turns up with a 600 quid salix/Newbery/millichamp and then says he is batting 7 to avoid the new ball?
:)
I’ve seen some of the best bats made by one of the best in the business being used, loaned to other players to use no matter who they are or where they bat. I’m sure most on here would know who owns said bats by now.
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With everything that's gone on in the run up to the ashes starting and off field idiocy I'm not surprised roots concentration has lapsed a coupla times
Upto the management to rein their squad in , not the on field captain
Fair assessment to say that root can’t bat in Australia :D. I’m sure if smith and Kohli had failed as many times in English conditions the English would be saying “but he can’t bat in England ”.
14 innings in aus averaging 28 with no 100s
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Team announced-
Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Malan
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Curran
Broad
Anderson
So just 1 change Curran in for the injured Overton. Can't believe Crane isn't playing.
If it is only this change it makes you wonder if they would have made any changes at all if Overton was fit.
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Team announced-
Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Malan
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Curran
Broad
Anderson
So just 1 change Curran in for the injured Overton. Can't believe Crane isn't playing.
If it is only this change it makes you wonder if they would have made any changes at all if Overton was fit.
Unfuckingbelievable, perfect chance to have a look at a couple of new lads, if anyone else had returned Broads match figures from the last test and the series on a whole, theyd be dropped. Don't even get me started on Ali still being the spinner, I'd rather chuck Malan the ball first
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Bet the Aussie batsmen can't wait!
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Ashes gone less pressure on Seems like a good time for curran crane debuts or maybe they don't want another Kerrigan and only took Crane for the squad experience and are saving him for helpful 2018 UK tracks
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Don’t think the selectors should be taking anyone for just squad experience on an important tour.
Whichever one of the forum said the ECB wrote off this tour before it started may well be right. That Harrison bloke in interview seemed to back that up by mentioning one day teams success(which is true but this is tests!).
They could of left out Ali for Crane-Mo has been poor,and/or Wood in for Broad.
I can’t see why Crane is on the trip-missed opportunity.
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Aussies sitting back laughing 😂😂😂😂
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That test announcement just ruined my Christmas
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There will be many of us buying bats and kit to get over the ashes
Retail therapy works!
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helpful 2018 UK tracks
Really?
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Curran will be playing in Melbourne apparently.
I am delighted for him. I suspect that he may hasten the end of Broad's career.
Impeccable source once again... 😉
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Impeccable source once again... 😉
....i always knew you were really andrew strauss !
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Team announced-
Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Malan
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Curran
Broad
Anderson
So just 1 change Curran in for the injured Overton. Can't believe Crane isn't playing.
If it is only this change it makes you wonder if they would have made any changes at all if Overton was fit.
It always worries me when a new player gets blooded in this way - i.e third choice, young and relatively inexperienced at county level let alone international. There's always the chance that you'll tar someone's career for life with a poor show. That said - not a great deal of options out there at the moment!
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From social media pictures the pitch looks white and dry.
So England did have options but choose not to use them.
A team thinking they can get 400 plus regularly would have 2 spinners.Or a least a specialist or an on form spinner.
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Aussies to bat first
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About time aus won a toss, perfect conditions for Warner to tee off
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What they gonna look to score ? 650??
Warner has to be due a few?
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This is monumentally boring
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England bowlers are so up and down military medium samey samey rubbish!
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This is monumentally boring
Maybe the Big Bash is more your speed mate.....
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Maybe the Big Bash is more your speed mate.....
Love the Big Bash. But when you have an absolute road like this it just doesn't open up for particularly interesting cricket
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True. The test likely to crawl along until the odd session throws up something interesting. But to be honest, boring boxing day in Aus is just what i usually need.
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A great day for physics... warners "small" / MCC compliant bat creaming the ball just as well his old / illegal bats.
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Dammit I should’ve put money on Warner to get a 100. Flat wicket vs 4 medium pacers
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Pretty methodless bowling by us thus far. Whilst we can't do much about not having any genuine pace. Once again the new ball was wasted. Bowling too short, rather than going for wickets, trying to contain the run rates. If we can't take any wickets in the first session(which looks likely) the Australians may well pile up 600+
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Pretty methodless bowling by us thus far. Whilst we can't do much about not having any genuine pace. Once again the new ball was wasted. Bowling too short, rather than going for wickets, trying to contain the run rates. If we can't take any wickets in the first session(which looks likely) the Australians may well pile up 600+
+1 To this - I assume it's an England bowling coach plan to bowl in these areas as I'd back Jimmy to put the ball fuller if that's where he wants it? I wonder if professional teams are guilty of over thinking things sometimes - the idea of having a 'plan' for every batsman can sometimes override the ability of the players to just look at the conditions and the situation and make their own calls. Granted I'm not an international bowling coach, but on an absolute road with 4 medium pacers could they have gone far wrong with a 6-3 field and a top of off stump??
Poor Curran set up for a fail by England - was never going to flourish on debut in these conditions and in this environment. I predict it may well be one to forget for him.
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Great bowlers though they've been, Jimmy and Broad have been bowling too short on the opening morning of test matches for years, it's not some new plan the coaching team have come up with recently!
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The dreaded break curse will strike
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A great day for physics... warners "small" / MCC compliant bat creaming the ball just as well his old / illegal bats.
Take that ricky ponting !
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Would love to see bancroft get a maiden ton here .
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Would love to see bancroft get a maiden ton here .
Can you repeat this jinx for the rest of the Aussie batting order?
Cheers.
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Absolutely gutless over by broad.
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Absolutely gutless over by broad.
Nah.
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DW is on a rampage today. Looks like another 400 plus first innings total.
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DW is on a rampage today. Looks like another 400 plus first innings total.
Australia might score 400 before Smith faces a ball.
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Ahahahahahahaha of course it's a no-ball.
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Flat track billy Warner is one of the luckiest batsmen ever.
His career is going downhill very soon mark my words.
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Flat track billy Warner is one of the luckiest batsmen ever.
His career is going downhill very soon mark my words.
Back already after stealing Christmas ? ;)
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You do realise he averages 90 in South Africa don’t you?
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Only one way his average is going to go from the new year onwards and that’s down.
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Only one way his average is going to go from the new year onwards and that’s down.
Funniest post of the year
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We’ll see in a years time
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Finally the lucky FTB is gone.
Has no shots against proper fields that the biased Aussie commentators love to c omplain about.
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Flat track billy Warner is one of the luckiest batsmen ever.
His career is going downhill very soon mark my words.
CB need to update the forum software to include a rolls eyes emoji.
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Finally the lucky FTB is gone.
Has no shots against proper fields that the biased Aussie commentators love to c omplain about.
You must really hate Kohli and Smith too.. ?
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Australian Schedule
Feb-Apr Tour S.A
Jun-Jul Zim tour Aus
Jul Ban Tour Aus
I’ll put my money on Warner
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Finally the lucky FTB is gone.
Has no shots against proper fields that the biased Aussie commentators love to c omplain about.
Proper fields? Oh he hit it here let’s move a fielder... oh hang on he hit it there let’s move the fielder oh hang on he hit it back there...... 12 year old stuff
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You must really hate Kohli and Smith too.. ?
Smith and Kohli are proper batsmen that don’t get bogged down unlike Warner.
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England have bowled far better in the 2nd session
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Malan and Curran have bowled well.... Ali ordinary again
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Tracking the cricket from holiday, when I wake up play is over....I could virtually guarantee we would no really make inroads on a good pitch in batting conditions.
Jimmy remains our best bowler but we will have to make some changes in the absence of Stokes.
Mo Ali is a worry, we need his runs down the order but he is the front line spinner even if he thinks himself he is the second spinner.
Actual specialist spinners in the modern game seem to have gone, you need to be able to bat unless you are outstanding. You just can't see someone like Panesar playing now as good as he was for us, ie a player like Leach.
Very tricky to fix I think myself, Crane seems to be the best option and does not play.
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Nah.
‘Cowardly, pathetic’ act slammed - news.com.au
https://apple.news/ANp265bFARoy6yDcDkBxkNw
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‘Cowardly, pathetic’ act slammed - news.com.au
https://apple.news/ANp265bFARoy6yDcDkBxkNw
Not at ll cowardly or pathetic it could be interpreted as a negative tactics to build pressure and if not for the no ball would have worked.
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Australian Schedule
Feb-Apr Tour S.A
Jun-Jul Zim tour Aus
Jul Ban Tour Aus
I’ll put my money on Warner
Yeah warner will really be on the down and down come mid year ! :D
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Not at ll cowardly or pathetic it could be interpreted as a negative tactics to build pressure and if not for the no ball would have worked.
So you wait till a batsmen makes 99 before attempting to employ a plan to get him out? For roots sake i seriously hope that wasnt his tactic. Almost a better look if it was just broad trying to dodge the hundred.
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So you wait till a batsmen makes 99 before attempting to employ a plan to get him out? For roots sake i seriously hope that wasnt his tactic. Almost a better look if it was just broad trying to dodge the hundred.
No it wasn't a case of waiting till the batsman gets 99 to employ a plan maybe just another part of the plan and it nearly worked
Except for a typical example of what they say about the best laid plans
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This boy Steven Smith is proving to be a right pain in the...Someone go kick him the nuts as a retired hurt seems the only way to see him off at the current time. Joking aside the boy is a marvelous batsman.
Moeen Ali pathetic yet again, aside from a fluke job against South Africa, he's stealing a living. Truly a terrible cricketer. Once we get Stokes back, we must pension off Moeen and select a front line spinner - whether that's Adil, Leach or Crane. Bits and pieces like Moeen have no business being gifted Test caps
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This boy Steven Smith is proving to be a right pain in the...Someone go kick him the nuts as a retired hurt seems the only way to see him off at the current time. Joking aside the boy is a marvelous batsman.
Moeen Ali pathetic yet again, aside from a fluke job against South Africa, he's stealing a living. Truly a terrible cricketer. Once we get Stokes back, we must pension off Moeen and select a front line spinner - whether that's Adil, Leach or Crane. Bits and pieces like Moeen have no business being gifted Test caps
Yes when smith failed his english exam and was complentating his future had he taken Surreys £30.000 offer he could now be playing for England
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Yes when smith failed his english exam and was complentating his future had he taken Surreys £30.000 offer he could now be playing for England
You say that, but would he have ever made it that far?
Because he doesn't have a "textbook" technique, his natural game would have likely been coached out of him on the county circuit.
Would he have been so prolific, who knows? I do think that the approach of trying to teach everyone out of the coaching manual is one of the major flaws of English cricket in general.
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It's this sort of question that needs asking
Would he have had to go to the right schools etc
As a leggie, would anyone have bothered with him?
And the way he's turned himself into one of the worlds best run scorers is what every coach/county should be asking
Instead of focusing on how good they look in the nets facing off stick half volleys
And warners a flat track bully??
Cmon, the blokes unreal, how can anyone call him anything other than a prolific run scorer
I'm sure it's the same people who prattle on about how wonderful cook is, and yet he's not scored owt for years?
Is it about pretty cricket or taking wickets and scoring runs??
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I love reading this thread - the one eyed nationalism on both sides is spectacular. Broad bowling wide of the stumps was cowardice? Odd, seems to me his strategy would have brough Warner's immediate downfall had Curran been able to land his feet where he was supposed to.
And Warner is on the downslope? I'd hardly think so - he's had a tougher series than some, mainly because England's tactics of bowling dry work particularly well against him - but you can hardly imagine the Yarpies, Zimboks or Banglas repeating that later in the year...
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It's this sort of question that needs asking
Would he have had to go to the right schools etc
As a leggie, would anyone have bothered with him?
And the way he's turned himself into one of the worlds best run scorers is what every coach/county should be asking
Instead of focusing on how good they look in the nets facing off stick half volleys
And warners a flat track bully??
Cmon, the blokes unreal, how can anyone call him anything other than a prolific run scorer
I'm sure it's the same people who prattle on about how wonderful cook is, and yet he's not scored owt for years?
Is it about pretty cricket or taking wickets and scoring runs??
Th guy does score runs and no one can argue with that. However, when a commentator is waxing lyrical about his defence and when you look he’s not into tha ball and got a huge gap between bat and pad you’ve got to wonder what these commentators are smoking.
Always got to remember pundits are paid to BS players and games up. Hell, even Hussey was saying how good Bancrofts technique was.. I think he’s lost his marbles if he thinks that
Sure England went negative but against batsmen who can’t stand more than a couple of dot balls it works.. they get all annoyed and flash. Warner could have been out a lot in his innings but some how people seem to be forgetting how often he hit it in the air
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What's up with hitting a ball in the air? In England's batting, just hitting the ball would be an improvement
The bits I heard regarding warners defence, were in reference to him being a t20 hitter originally and how he's worked on , trying to play a longer innings type game.
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‘Cowardly, pathetic’ act slammed - news.com.au
https://apple.news/ANp265bFARoy6yDcDkBxkNw
Those 'cowardly' tactics made Warner feel the pressure and make mistakes despite having cruised to 90 from about a dozen balls. He hit one uppishly past point, then was caught off a no-ball trying to force one to the empty on-side on 99 and then ended with his dismissal four runs later reaching for a wide one.
Just because idiots are 'slamming' it doesn't mean the plan didn't have sound logic behind it.
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Th guy does score runs and no one can argue with that. However, when a commentator is waxing lyrical about his defence and when you look he’s not into tha ball and got a huge gap between bat and pad you’ve got to wonder what these commentators are smoking.
Always got to remember pundits are paid to BS players and games up. Hell, even Hussey was saying how good Bancrofts technique was.. I think he’s lost his marbles if he thinks that
Sure England went negative but against batsmen who can’t stand more than a couple of dot balls it works.. they get all annoyed and flash. Warner could have been out a lot in his innings but some how people seem to be forgetting how often he hit it in the air
With regards to Smith and his defence, they have every right to comment on how good it is, gap between bat and pad means nothing if he can still manage to keep the ball out, technique goes out the window as Smith is proving time and time again.
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With regards to Smith and his defence, they have every right to comment on how good it is, gap between bat and pad means nothing if he can still manage to keep the ball out, technique goes out the window as Smith is proving time and time again.
Who mentioned smith ??
Warner..
Smith actually keeps it on the deck so fair enough
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So Moeen Ali? I’ve not seen any of this series. Is he simply sh*t, is it all the cut on his finger or has he been unlucky?
We all play club cricket at varying levels. If you were the captain/coach of the StDunstans Irregulars 3XI - would you pick a spinner who couldn’t fulfill his primary function?
Malan’s looking like the primary batsman/part-time spinner at the moment.
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Who mentioned smith ??
Warner..
Smith actually keeps it on the deck so fair enough
Warner is a very good player indeed. As for smith he probably has exceptional hand eye co ordination, similar to Kevin Pieterson.
That would be a guess as to why he is that good-because he is exceptional.
Even a test level you sometimes get players that good the rest look like county players.
KP had his head over the ball and in line and didn't seem to care much about anything else. Some of his innings you watch and think he is just so much better than anyone else.
His hundred at Headingly v SA and his ton in Mumbai two of those games.
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Who mentioned smith ??
Warner..
Smith actually keeps it on the deck so fair enough
Yeh my bad not sure how I got mixed up there, my point still stands though,
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So Moeen Ali? I’ve not seen any of this series. Is he simply sh*t, is it all the cut on his finger or has he been unlucky?
We all play club cricket at varying levels. If you were the captain/coach of the StDunstans Irregulars 3XI - would you pick a spinner who couldn’t fulfill his primary function?
Malan’s looking like the primary batsman/part-time spinner at the moment.
He's just looked turd from the very start, I can't understand what they see in him to constantly keep picking him, he had a decent summer but on wickets that were more spin friendly and with England on the front foot. He's not the greatest fielder in the world either and it's only a matter of time before he gets out when at the crease, anything above chest level and he's knackered.
He bowls without any energy, and consistently over pitches the ball, negating any potential spin as the Batsmen are already well on top of the ball/ to the pitch of it. The comparison between him and Lyon is insane, like chalk and cheese
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Isn’t it funny how things change... it was only about 12 months ago people on this forum were calling Lyon (No Swearing Please) and a clubbie lol
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Not me! I think Lyon shows the benefit of a confident, consistently improving finger spinner. Fair play to him, and stupid b*stard points to Baylis for persisting with Ali.
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I'll hold my hands up as one who called Lyon a clubbie, more due to the fact I don't like him and I'm very bitter, unfortunately he is very good
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So Moeen Ali? I’ve not seen any of this series. Is he simply sh*t, is it all the cut on his finger or has he been unlucky?
We all play club cricket at varying levels. If you were the captain/coach of the StDunstans Irregulars 3XI - would you pick a spinner who couldn’t fulfill his primary function?
Malan’s looking like the primary batsman/part-time spinner at the moment.
Well...
He was clearly unfit going into the first test, having missed a tour game with a side strain. Then he ripped open his spinning finger in the first test and almost missed the second test because of it.
Australia is also a very tough place for visiting spinners, Murali averages something like 75 there, Yasir Shah toured there and averaged something like 80 iirc? Swann retired halfway through an Ashes tour to keep his career average below 30.
On top of those mitigating factors, Moeen has also just bowled a bit (No Swearing Please).
I also think Root has done a poor job of handling Moeen too. I think it was in the previous test where Moeen came on a few overs before the old ball, got rid of one of the Marsh brothers (The only wicket that fell all day iirc?) in his first over and he only bowled one more over before being replaced by Anderson in the 78th over or so.
So not only did Moeen come on for a marathon two over spell, but it meant that Anderson only bowled two and a half overs with the new ball because he was half way through his spell by the time it became available. That's just crap captaincy.
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Th guy does score runs and no one can argue with that. However, when a commentator is waxing lyrical about his defence and when you look he’s not into tha ball and got a huge gap between bat and pad you’ve got to wonder what these commentators are smoking.
Always got to remember pundits are paid to BS players and games up. Hell, even Hussey was saying how good Bancrofts technique was.. I think he’s lost his marbles if he thinks that
Sure England went negative but against batsmen who can’t stand more than a couple of dot balls it works.. they get all annoyed and flash. Warner could have been out a lot in his innings but some how people seem to be forgetting how often he hit it in the air
This is my point. If its not a rubbish ploy from a bowler to dodge warners hundred then as a tactic it exposes a captain without a plan. If it only takes "a couple of dot balls" then why wait till the guy makes a century to use this tactic? Why chase warners ball for 99 runs before its a plan worth implamenting?
As for hitting the ball through the air. Arent there even rules of the game around scoring extra for hitting the ball in the air? Its part of the game, unlike croquet. Some people might be forgetting how ofter he DIDNT actually get out hitting it in the air. Its clutching at straws when you suggest the mear fact a ball is hit in the air a batsman could have been out. There is after all a finite number a fielders. And you'll need to have seen each of his innings this series if you want to give any context to this one. Check his strike rates and minutes at the crease. Cleary not too worried by dot balls and run rates. This innings showed a deliberately different intent. Yes more risk. But much less at stake. After the last test boof said players would be more free. Warner was. Simple.
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Not a bad debut scalp!!!
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#DropWoakes
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Medium pace, wide of off stump, playing on. We've cracked it. Ah.
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Lucky the Aussies are getting themselves out because England were never getting them out 😜
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About time Broad turned up this tour
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another one drags onto the stumps playing with a diagonal bat, you'd think they would have learned by now
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hahahahaha
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One good thing about Broad is that he rarely bowls front foot no balls
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Watch us muck this up
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I think it’s Englands day with the bat
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Watch us muck this up
Nah. Low n slow. England should clean up.
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Australian attack is nothing without Starc who is absolute world class.
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Cook put the pull shot for 4 in the air.. How dare he hit the ball in the air in a Test match
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Wow poor decision not to review
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I love reading this thread - the one eyed nationalism on both sides is spectacular. Broad bowling wide of the stumps was cowardice? Odd, seems to me his strategy would have brough Warner's immediate downfall had Curran been able to land his feet where he was supposed to.
Boos were going out around the stadium when Broad was bowling this line. I did remind the Australians nearest me that they once had a captain who ordered his bowler to roll the ball along the ground to prevent a six. Short memories or perhaps just uneducated
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Boos were going out around the stadium when Broad was bowling this line. I did remind the Australians nearest me that they once had a captain who ordered his bowler to roll the ball along the ground to prevent a six. Short memories or perhaps just uneducated
They were just booing Broad because he's a tool, no underarms involved.
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Steve Smith doing the job of the England selectors and dropping Cook...
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On a different note, Cook is playing much more sideon this innings and it is working for him. Not sure if he made a conscious decision on the same..
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Coooooooook great to see him back on form. Ton at every test ground in Australia according to Hussy
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Wait till both teams bowl they said LOL
Anderson was right, without Starc, this attack has no x factor.
Even if Cummins was fully fit.
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All Cook needed was a new bat. There’s a moral in that for everyone.
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On a different note, Cook is playing much more sideon this innings and it is working for him. Not sure if he made a conscious decision on the same..
Wonder if that was a reversal of what he was working on with Palmer before Christmas.
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There is a Starc difference to the potency of the Ozzie bowling attack in the test.
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Indeed, he doesn't always look like a world beater but he does have a habit of picking up wickets out of nowhere with the others lack.
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"Sighs" - is it just me, or is anyone else deflated by the fact that all of this has happened when it does not matter? Cook and Broad have decided to show up after the ashes have gone, how many times have I seen fine England performances after the horse has bolted (particularly against the Aussies).
I'm delighted that Cook has got some runs at last, I like the guy and think he has been a great servant to English cricket, but I just can't get excited about finishing the series 3-1 or 3-2 with the current set up and methods.
I could live with it if it was a fighting finish and a brave new dawn with Malan, Foakes, Crane and Curran to the fore, citing a new generation of match-winners for England.
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"Sighs" - is it just me, or is anyone else deflated by the fact that all of this has happened when it does not matter? Cook and Broad have decided to show up after the ashes have gone, how many times have I seen fine England performances after the horse has bolted (particularly against the Aussies).
I'm delighted that Cook has got some runs at last, I like the guy and think he has been a great servant to English cricket, but I just can't get excited about finishing the series 3-1 or 3-2 with the current set up and methods.
I could live with it if it was a fighting finish and a brave new dawn with Malan, Foakes, Crane and Curran to the fore, citing a new generation of match-winners for England.
Better than just lying down and accepting a walloping I suppose, at least shows there's some fight left in the old guard.
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That and the only claim the aussies have to being any better is they don't lose 5-0 every time in the away Ashes series.
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I concur with Mr FC.....Cook appears never to get runs when we need him too and i believe someone with his record should operate on a higher plane than the others!
To show up in the 7th innings of an Ashes tour down under,being the senior bat,is very poor,but alas what i have come to expect of him
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Fascinating the effect of removing mental pressure with the series done. Some play better than ever and some lose their edge and underachieve.
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Fascinating the effect of removing mental pressure with the series done. Some play better than ever and some lose their edge and underachieve.
More a slow flat pitch and the most potent bowler missing I'd say.
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Well done to Anderson on passing Walsh to become second to McGrath in tests in the list of fast bowling wicket takers
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Our best ever seam bowler now surely?
If you look at stats only , and they played far far fewer tests way back, trueman's average is astonishing....
But they were uncovered pitches(?). Anderson has got his wickets on sponsors wickets in the UK, and elsewhere batting friendly ones...
Trueman was much quicker than Jimmy, but I've not seen a better bowler for us
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The shear amount of matches and wickets taken in The UK certainly make him look a little better than he is.... Not that I don’t think he is a good bowler because he is but more than half of his wickets have been taken on home soil at an average of 10 better than all away matches combined.
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The shear amount of matches and wickets taken in The UK certainly make him look a little better than he is.... Not that I don’t think he is a good bowler because he is but more than half of his wickets have been taken on home soil at an average of 10 better than all away matches combined.
English bowler takes a high percentage of wickets in England shocker.
I assume by the same standard you're taking all runs in Australia out of consideration for Smiffy? :)
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Our best ever seam bowler now surely?
If you look at stats only , and they played far far fewer tests way back, trueman's average is astonishing....
But they were uncovered pitches(?). Anderson has got his wickets on sponsors wickets in the UK, and elsewhere batting friendly ones...
Trueman was much quicker than Jimmy, but I've not seen a better bowler for us
Apologies for going of topic but having seen Truman bowl inc him watching him take his 300 test wicket in terms of speed Fred was quicker than Jimmy but was not the fastest it was his long graceful run up and classical side on action that made him look much faster than he actually was.
What Truman also had was what all fast bowlers need powerful legs which didn't come from hours in the gym his action was discribe as like a wave coming up the beach. And crashing onto the shore .
He was also a decent bat over 9000 runs and three centuries
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Our best ever seam bowler now surely?
If you look at stats only , and they played far far fewer tests way back, trueman's average is astonishing....
But they were uncovered pitches(?). Anderson has got his wickets on sponsors wickets in the UK, and elsewhere batting friendly ones...
Trueman was much quicker than Jimmy, but I've not seen a better bowler for us
Trueman, by all accounts, could do everything Anderson can, but at a higher pace, and I think he must still be considered our greatest seamer. Stats are difficult to compare because there are the differences of uncovered pitches, having to play 30+ first class games on top of Test cricket, not getting to feast on Zimboks, Banglas and the modern generation of awful West Indies teams.
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English bowler takes a high percentage of wickets in England shocker.
I assume by the same standard you're taking all runs in Australia out of consideration for Smiffy? :)
If you prefer to compare bowlers, which I thought that’s what was happening, then Glenn McGrath would be a better comparison.
And taking away Smiths Australian runs he is still holding an average of 57 which still above any of the English batsmen.
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Trueman, by all accounts, could do everything Anderson can, but at a higher pace, and I think he must still be considered our greatest seamer. Stats are difficult to compare because there are the differences of uncovered pitches, having to play 30+ first class games on top of Test cricket, not getting to feast on Zimboks, Banglas and the modern generation of awful West Indies teams.
Brian Close said during a test match Truman was about to bowl with the new ball the Indian batsman about to face him asked for the sidescreen to be moved on being asked where he wanted it moved to he replied between me and Fred.
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If you prefer to compare bowlers, which I thought that’s what was happening, then Glenn McGrath would be a better comparison. .
I think you'd actually struggle to get a like for like comparison for Anderson - Alderman and Rackemann were the last convenional swing bowlers that Australia really had, which is quite understandable given the pitches and balls that prevail in your conditions.
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Brian Close said during a test match Truman was about to bowl with the new ball the Indian batsman about to face him asked for the sidescreen to be moved on being asked where he wanted it moved to he replied between me and Fred.
A good story, but one I preferred was the day Fred walked into the Glamorgan dressing room and announced he needed six wickets for 100 in the season "an' ah'll be 'aving you, you, you, you, you and you". And then promptly got all six of them.
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Just watched the highlights of the evening session.
I see australia still trying to make broad out to be the king villian.
This time to show how bad broad was in slowing down warner when he got to his ton.
Smith bought himself on to bowl Pies and get cook there quicker!
Cos that what test cricket is about yeah? We all want to see batsmen score at 11 an over putting crap away, non off this testing of a guys mental over 5days.........
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Just watched the highlights of the evening session.
I see australia still trying to make broad out to be the king villian.
This time to show how bad broad was in slowing down warner when he got to his ton.
Smith bought himself on to bowl Pies and get cook there quicker!
Cos that what test cricket is about yeah? We all want to see batsmen score at 11 an over putting crap away, non off this testing of a guys mental over 5days.........
Exactly, I though that was foolish by Smith, I can only assume that Smith was trying to make Cook (a man famed for his mental toughness once in) play a rash shot in a rush to get to 3 figures, bit naive if that was his thinking, might have worked on Root to be fair but not Cook, he'd have been best off bringing a strike bowler back and trying to find a way through his defences properly.
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Didn't Smith get him out when he was close at the Oval in 2015 towards the end of the day. Was some proper filth this time, mind.
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Just watching the highlights
Cook looks a different bloke???
Moving his feet, head over the ball, timing the cover off the ball, shame he didn't push for a review of stone mans dismissal
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...Stoneman was definitely out. But a Vince review might have been a good idea.
Cook batted really well.
Personally, I think he still has a few years left in him...
But... He seems a bit hacked off. Body language when he scored the ton seemed off, and just watched an interview on BT and he just seemed a bit fed up. Now wondering whether he will carry on much longer
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Root doing Root things. Will he ever sort this out?
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Cook looked a totally different batsman in the absence of Starc. Cook has issues with left arm seam bowlers Starc, Johnson, Khan, Amir etc. Cook lines up the right arm seamers a lot better.
Elsewhere Root once again gets out after getting to his 50. Only 13 centuries from the 48 tines he has crossed 50. A paltry 27% conversation rate.
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Boycott is being a total d**k in the comm box... I feel sorry for Hussey
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Has Malan smashed that and not reviewed?
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First Vince, now Malan. Jesus Christ.
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Seriously? We should be two down here.
Smash that review signal!
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How could he not feel that inside edge
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Cook saving the reviews for himself, veteran savvy.
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He wants to be the saviour
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Cook looked a totally different batsman in the absence of Starc. Cook has issues with left arm seam bowlers Starc, Johnson, Khan, Amir etc. Cook lines up the right arm seamers a lot better.
Elsewhere Root once again gets out after getting to his 50. Only 13 centuries from the 48 tines he has crossed 50. A paltry 27% conversation rate.
Hints of GerrySA from you
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Bloody hell Moeen
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What a prat
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Moeen is playing for Australian player of the series
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Th guy does score runs and no one can argue with that. However, when a commentator is waxing lyrical about his defence and when you look he’s not into tha ball and got a huge gap between bat and pad you’ve got to wonder what these commentators are smoking.
Always got to remember pundits are paid to BS players and games up. Hell, even Hussey was saying how good Bancrofts technique was.. I think he’s lost his marbles if he thinks that
Sure England went negative but against batsmen who can’t stand more than a couple of dot balls it works.. they get all annoyed and flash. Warner could have been out a lot in his innings but some how people seem to be forgetting how often he hit it in the air
Cook giving about as many chances hitting in the air as Warner 😂🤣😂 Dropped 2 or 3 times now
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Cook giving about as many chances hitting in the air as Warner 😂🤣😂 Dropped 2 or 3 times now
Not quite but he did just hit one that was just out of backward points reach. Not good.
Keep it on the deck lad
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Knew I’d get a bite 😜
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Woakes in danger on falling into the bits and pieces category. Had high hopes for him going into the series but he hasnt delivered with bat or ball other than one spell in Adelaide and is in serious danger of proving seniorplayer right
Cook on 179 at the other end and he gets out playing a low reward shot. Use your brain lad
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Smiths determined to let cook bat as long as he wants.
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Any Reason for tapered shoulders on Cook's bat?
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He was choking it or something
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No Starc and Jackson Bird in to deliver 0-100 odd at 78 mph...
Makes massive difference
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Was Stuart broad out?? Can’t see Kwaja admitting he shelled it.
Umpiring has been a bit poor this series. Warner called back from a no ball in this test but the same wasn’t done for I think it was Malan in the 2nd test, Broad soft signal given out from 70m away (which I assume was done on the gentleman’s rule that he claimed the catch and must be an honest chap).
Just also thinking of they check no balls now on dismissal only why don’t they check hotspot and Vince got an inside edge and isn’t given the same opportunity of technology as Warner for example
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No Starc and Jackson Bird in to deliver 0-100 odd at 78 mph...
Makes massive difference
Jackson Bird. Australian equivalent of Woakes. Nowhere near the best in the country.
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Was Stuart broad out?? Can’t see Kwaja admitting he shelled it.
Umpiring has been a bit poor this series. Warner called back from a no ball in this test but the same wasn’t done for I think it was Malan in the 2nd test, Broad soft signal given out from 70m away (which I assume was done on the gentleman’s rule that he claimed the catch and must be an honest chap).
Just also thinking of they check no balls now on dismissal only why don’t they check hotspot and Vince got an inside edge and isn’t given the same opportunity of technology as Warner for example
I think they either use the technology all the time or not at all.
The Khawaja catch was a hard one. It look to pop out and the his hand went back under the ball before it touched the ground... Can’t see what happened to it when he fell on top of it.
Vince was given the opportunity to review but he chose not to, as did Malan which he smashed the ball but chose not to review... Strange
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Nice to see chef get some confidence going forward but doesn’t mean much after series is lost other than to set him up hopefully for the next few series as whatever his form there is still no other opener at his level as we have struggled to find a partner for years let alone a partner and replacement
This may be sacrilege but I can no longer put root in the same bracket as smith kholi and Williamson, too many pretty 50’s
The others convert and step up when it matters he very rarely seems to go big and dominate a game
Broad is broad will do nothing at all then get on a roll and steam roller a side for nothing but it won’t happen every game you have to accept it or drop him like India had with sewag
Mo I like as a batsmen but he has never been and will never be a front line spinner
Plus until the likes of Darren Stevens stop getting help from pitches in cc we will never produce proper fast bowlers or decent spinners as all you need is to be accurate at 75 mph to get 60-70 wickets a year in cc
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Nice to see chef get some confidence going forward but doesn’t mean much after series is lost other than to set him up hopefully for the next few series as whatever his form there is still no other opener at his level as we have struggled to find a partner for years let alone a partner and replacement
This may be sacrilege but I can no longer put root in the same bracket as smith kholi and Williamson, too many pretty 50’s
The others convert and step up when it matters he very rarely seems to go big and dominate a game
Broad is broad will do nothing at all then get on a roll and steam roller a side for nothing but it won’t happen every game you have to accept it or drop him like India had with sewag
Mo I like as a batsmen but he has never been and will never be a front line spinner
Plus until the likes of Darren Stevens stop getting help from pitches in cc we will never produce proper fast bowlers or decent spinners as all you need is to be accurate at 75 mph to get 60-70 wickets a year in cc
Stop talking sense man, it's clear that the main problem is these BLOODY BIG BATS!
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Stop talking sense man, it's clear that the main problem is these BLOODY BIG BATS!
Sorry I’ll go back into my corner and think about what I’ve done
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Jackson Bird. Australian equivalent of Woakes. Nowhere near the best in the country.
Maybe like Woakes he is a good team man.
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Sorry I’ll go back into my corner and think about what I’ve done
Good lad.
I do agree with a lot of what you said though, except that I think the knock from Cook does mean quite a lot. I'd much rather lose these Ashes 3-1, 3-2 or even 4-1/4-0 than a 5-0 whitewash just to cheapen the victory a bit for our Aussie friends. Plus I think it will galvanise not only the team but also Cook's own self belief that he's still up to this test cricket lark, he admitted in an interview after today's play that he's had doubts all series:
"Last night it ranked right up there, because it was a kind of feeling like last-chance saloon. When you're in those positions and you dig yourself out, it makes you proud.
"Those doubts are always there and they've been beating me up for four or five weeks. But I know I've done it before."
"Last night it was relief. Today I was quite proud that I came back, got in again and dug deep to get a big one. When you get a chance to get in on a flat wicket, you want to make it a big one."
"Things haven't really changed for me. I try to score runs every time I bat for England,"
"So far the series hasn't gone that well but today is a good day. I'm not sure I'm allowed to say it, but I will have a beer tonight."
Sounds to me like he's really been doubting himself but might just have got his mojo back, hopefully this keeps him hungry for more, as I still think he's got a lot of runs left in him.
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Trust me it doesn’t cheapen the victory.... We still won the ashes 😉😜
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Trust me it doesn’t cheapen the victory.... We still won the ashes 😉😜
But only 5-0 will end careers like we were promised would happen
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But only 5-0 will end careers like we were promised would happen
I hope they keep the same team for the next few years lol
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Trust me it doesn’t cheapen the victory.... We still won the ashes 😉😜
Surely it does? When we beat you at home last time, I felt it was cheapened by the losses (especially the last test where I felt we were complacent "job already done" kinda mentality) and I know you Aussies love keeping your foot on our throats when you have us down so basically I don't believe you ;) :D
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I’d rather 3-2 than 5-0 so agree it means something but if it was that easy to go out and score easily in Australia everyone would do it
We have been average but you have to give credit convicts bowlers just blew us away in first 3 tests on quick wickets and smith proved why he is one of worlds best
If we win this I very much doubt the next pitch will be slow and low
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In the NFL they use the term Garbage Time.
They might as well rest Hazelwood, Smith, Cummins and Lyon in Sydney. I doubt Ill bother watching much more from here on. Im starting to think about the tour of SA in March. Id say the selectors are too.
Reckon Chadd Sayers will go?
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Love the way you Aussies are trying to poo-poo the importance of this test match- fact is the Aussies are desperate to win 5 zip! If the likes of Broad,Cook and Root had turned up when it really mattered,like Smith and Stark did,this series would have been a lot closer!
The slowness of the pitch and no Stark has no doubt helped Cook. Still,he's shown he still has the appetite for big runs-hope he keeps going for a while yet!
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Penny for Mitch Starc's thoughts right about now? He had a big time charlie when James Anderson proclaimed the Australian cupboard was bare. Low and behold without one of the their big three(and granted Cummins had Delhi belly on day 2), Bird looks like a second division dobber. With Pattinson probably unlikely to play much due to several spine injuries and Coulter-Nile even more fragile, Cricket Australia might need to manage Starc, Hazlewood and Cummins as only Test match bowlers.
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Quite a few people posted pre ashes if the Aussie bowlers stayed fit we would struggle. They did for 3 matches and that was enough to seal the ashes.
It's a case of what might have been for England I'm afraid. This pitch is not as quick as the others also, seems more like English pace and bounce.
No complaints when Australia come over here in 2019 we would expect pitches to suit our bowlers.
As Soulman points out in the SA v India matches, home teams produce home pitches, it gets harder to win away.
India have not played an away test match series for 12 months, how that works I've no idea :)
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Bird didn't set alight Notts during his stay with them. I think any 4 man attack in test cricket is an accident waiting to happen. Particularly when 3 guys are trying to bowl 90+. It's why County cricket is full of dobbers, you simply can't maintain that pace over an extended period of time without a 4th seamer. The role of Watto bowling 75mph dobbers was overlooked in 2013/14 in helping Johnson bowl at full pelt. England have gone down the route of a genuine 4 man attack to preserve their bowling stocks.
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Well batted jimmy! First ball of the day!
Cook carries bat for 244*
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Good to hear some straight talking by Collingwood on Moeen pre match
We need a bit more frankness from the coaches and team to move forward
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Lucky for Cook because the others looked ordinary. Broads innings was was the luckiest I’ve seen. Exactly what England hasn’t had this series. Vince and Malan shouldn’t have been out but fate was in their own hands and they chose not to use it.
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What the hell was that review about? ???
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There has been some poor choice of reviews this series from both teams
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Umpires having a chat with Broad for his wayward throws scuffing up the ball? I'd be getting a talking to every game if they'd seen how bad my arm is ;)
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Well left by Broad to give Warner 3 runs instead of a single
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I don't see what the issue is, it's your ball so you can do what you like with it so long as it's within the rules. It's not as if they're carving huge grooves into the ball.
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Hope smith didnt sleep much last night. Dropped an unlikey aussie lead. :(
Pretty sure aussies were doing the same with the ball.....
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Bancroft is out of his depth as a test match opener. During the first innings I was thinking I couldnt remember watching a worse Aus opener - although they have had some good ones to be fair. And 2nd innings has done nothing to change my mind. He is neither aggresive - Slater, Hayden, Warner or methodical - Langer, Rogers style
He will be best remembered for giggling in a press conference. Renshaw is a much better long term option for Aus
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Have England ended the Test careers of Bancroft and Khawaja?
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Have England ended the Test careers of Bancroft and Khawaja?
khawaja was on borrowed time as it was.
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Bancroft needs more time and chances.
Much better than renshaw who can’t buy a run in domestic cricket.
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Have England ended the Test careers of Bancroft and Khawaja?
To be fair, bancroft would likely have a test century under his belt if england had made more runs in brisbane, no excuses for khawaja though..
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Why do the media of our own country feel the need to ride our own national side into the dirt?
They’ve been at it any time one of the players smells a pint of lager and now I open the bbc news (not even the sport section this was number 1 story) and they are ball tamperers now despite the fact if you have a quick read they’ve spoken to umpire Kumar and he is completely happy with what’s gone on
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Mints again?
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khawaja was on borrowed time as it was.
Khawaja was never more Than Australia at home backfoot batsman.
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Not for the first time mr Anderson has been caught ball tampering on tv. He's got away with it a few times in the past as I recall. Im sure if a pakistan bowler had done it he would've been blasted for it and banned.
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Not for the first time mr Anderson has been caught ball tampering on tv. He's got away with it a few times in the past as I recall. Im sure if a pakistan bowler had done it he would've been blasted for it and banned.
He was removing something from the shiny sides seam, something most of us do on a weekly basis when grass/dirt gets caught in it.
England were tampering with the ball by throwing it in on the bounce as much as possible, something the Ozzies also did all day.
It's part of the game, every team does it to get a ball to reverse, and if they don't... more fool them!
Move on!
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Not for the first time mr Anderson has been caught ball tampering on tv. He's got away with it a few times in the past as I recall. Im sure if a pakistan bowler had done it he would've been blasted for it and banned.
Dude, if you believe you scratch the shiny side with your nail to get swing, then have you even played cricket?
Thats the side your trying to protect!
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Dude, if you believe you scratch the shiny side with your nail to get swing, then have you even played cricket?
Thats the side your trying to protect!
Still changing the condition of the ball isn't it. Yes i've seen the video of it being the shiny side, but laws are laws. Don't see why we have a different set for english players.
I for one agree with vaughan (for once) and think the ICC should allow tampering. Would even out the difference between bat and ball a little more
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Did none of you listen to the comms, he was trying to repair part of the ball that had a chunk hanging off of it. Replay you could see he was trying to press it back down into place with his nail. Was hardly scratching away at it with his nail was he
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Did none of you listen to the comms, he was trying to repair part of the ball that had a chunk hanging off of it. Replay you could see he was trying to press it back down into place with his nail. Was hardly scratching away at it with his nail was he. Or even cleaning it as the umpires have said, he was tampering with the wrong side anyway so that wouldn't make any sense. Let's move on
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Did none of you listen to the comms, he was trying to repair part of the ball that had a chunk hanging off of it. Replay you could see he was trying to press it back down into place with his nail. Was hardly scratching away at it with his nail was he
The Aussies just want something else to fuel their victims complex.
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The complaint was for throwing ball into turf
No complaint for what Anderson was doing as did most of it in front of umpires
Same set of rules for all but if someone was messing with the ball like that for Pakistan Waquar and wasim would have sorted them way before the umpires just like they did when saqlain was moistening the rough side with spinning finger and a word was had
Yes I know I’ve spelt names wrong
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Let’s face it, Jimmy isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed... He had no idea what he was doing 😂🤣🧐
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Let’s face it, Jimmy isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed... He had no idea what he was doing 😂🤣🧐
Just like the rocket scientists that make up the Aussie squad
Jimmy is brighter than people give him credit for an dwasnt daft enough to do anything away from the umpires gaze
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Let’s face it, Jimmy isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed... He had no idea what he was doing 😂🤣🧐
He can though write with joined up handwriting and count higher than his fingers and toes - so would make a strong candidate for the Aus Prime Ministers role - if only he was eligible
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I love fishing.... catch and release haha 🎣
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I love fishing.... catch and release haha 🎣
Type that again without spellchecker on
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Jeez, I come to this place to get away from moronic cricinfo-esq trolling and arguments.
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Let’s face it, Jimmy isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed... He had no idea what he was doing 😂🤣🧐
Ah, intelligence.
Throwback to the 2013 homework saga...
https://twitter.com/will_mccloy/status/311319756764491776
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Another superb piece by George Dobell well worth a read...
http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-england-2017/content/story/1131092.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-england-2017/content/story/1131092.html)
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Good for Cook!!!
I just hope he is putting his retirement plans in order. These inconsistent performances can't go on.
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Good for Cook!!!
I just hope he is putting his retirement plans in order. These inconsistent performances can't go on.
They can have done previously and will probably continue.
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They can have done previously and will probably continue.
England has an opportunity to make the best of their amazing talent pool and realigning their teams. Root needs to step down from captaincy. Cook should retire. New bowlers should be brought in. Yes, it will create a lot of noise but it needs to happen in the run-up to the world cup and Test championship next year.
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England has an opportunity to make the best of their amazing talent pool and realigning their teams. Root needs to step down from captaincy. Cook should retire. New bowlers should be brought in. Yes, it will create a lot of noise but it needs to happen in the run-up to the world cup and Test championship next year.
What do you mean by realigning the teams?
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What do you mean by realigning the teams?
4 sentences to the right of the sentence "England has an opportunity to make the best of their amazing talent pool and realigning their teams".
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England has an opportunity to make the best of their amazing talent pool and realigning their teams. Root needs to step down from captaincy. Cook should retire. New bowlers should be brought in. Yes, it will create a lot of noise but it needs to happen in the run-up to the world cup and Test championship next year.
It does seem like Root is not doing as well since being Captain - but they showed stats that Root averages 2-3 runs more as Captain than before! So I guess the jury is out with that one - I would prefer to see how he does in 2018 and then make an opinion.
Cook retire? As there is nobody to replace him at the moment, I am sure that i am not alone when i say that that i still think Cook has more runs in him on top of almost 12000 he already has!
Stokes coming in should improve the balance of the team!
Bowlers? Anderson has bowled well in these Ashes so far - he has a lot of skill and nice to see him performing pretty well in Aus (he hasn't always done so!) And as you can't deny his home record is very good, i reckon he deserves to retire gracefully and in his own time, which is likely to be in the next year or two barring injuries!
Broad? That is a different matter really. With the exception of the burrent test, his bowling in Aus in this Ashes series has been pretty poor. His bowling is a worry! If I would Coach, I would keep an eye on him over the next couple of series!
Apart from Broad, i would also have a worry about Woakes and Ali! They have performed well up until this Ashes series. But they are both a worry as they seem to be off form with both bat and ball. But they have both performed well in the past, so not worth making any rash decisions!!!
About the rest - Stoneman and Malan have been impressive so far! And Vince has shown enough ability to give him a longer run.
Other minor positives have been that our new bowlers haven't looked out of their depth.
The only thing left to see is how Crane fits in and bowls. Unsure if they will play him this series to be honest.
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England has an opportunity to make the best of their amazing talent pool and realigning their teams. Root needs to step down from captaincy. Cook should retire. New bowlers should be brought in. Yes, it will create a lot of noise but it needs to happen in the run-up to the world cup and Test championship next year.
Can you let us know where this "amazing talent pool" is please?
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4 sentences to the right of the sentence "England has an opportunity to make the best of their amazing talent pool and realigning their teams".
What amazing talent pool ??
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England has an opportunity to make the best of their amazing talent pool and realigning their teams. Root needs to step down from captaincy. Cook should retire. New bowlers should be brought in. Yes, it will create a lot of noise but it needs to happen in the run-up to the world cup and Test championship next year.
Didnt we do that when we sacked kp? And we've been crap while chopping and changing the team since.
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When you are talking about retirement of the big established players you need to look further ahead.
Example - they aren't going to retire before an English summer because that's easy to play in at home and a better chance of wickets/runs.
Look further ahead and you see England are due to tour Sri Lanka in Oct-Nov 2018 and West Indies in Jan-Feb 2019 - possibly 2 of the easiest away tours there are at the moment.
They could be around for a while yet injuries permitting
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Before India won their world cup in 2011, Dhoni got rid of a lot of senior players. Change is tough but necessary.
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Before India won their world cup in 2011, Dhoni got rid of a lot of senior players. Change is tough but necessary.
So, what talent pool do englsnd have ??
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So, what talent pool do englsnd have ??
Are you serious? Or is that a half posterior attempt at mocking my post?
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Can you let us know where this "amazing talent pool" is please?
It's called the County Championship. But we're doing our best to destroy it.
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It's called the County Championship. But we're doing our best to destroy it.
Really?
There are arguably too many counties to produce that many great players.
With 18 sides that's a minimum of 198 players. How many of those are county journeymen, who are making a living being mediocre cricketers?
The championship could well produce a lot of star players, but I think a lot needs to be changed to make it so.
For a start removing archaic coaching of the textbook to all players, and get the England boys regularly playing for their counties again.
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Are you serious? Or is that a half posterior attempt at mocking my post?
I’m serious.
Name some amazing talent that are seriously capable of being a test quality batter, bowler or keeper ?
There are plenty of white ball so forget those formats as they are common
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If there were more Joe Roots and better quality bowlers in the counties they would be in the England team or the A team
Sadly for England there currently is not.
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If there were more Joe Roots and better quality bowlers in the counties they would be in the England team or the A team
Sadly for England there currently is not.
Are there even that may fringe players for, if not the full side, the Lions?
Hameed
Northeast
Anyone else that springs to mind as a future prospect?
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Are you serious? Or is that a half posterior attempt at mocking my post?
He asked a simple question. twice. I'm unsure why you aren't willing to back up the statement you made?
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4 sentences to the right of the sentence "England has an opportunity to make the best of their amazing talent pool and realigning their teams".
Repeating the line doesn't answer the question, realign the teams with what or who? Genuinely curious as to your thoughts behind this
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A bit sad to see so many empty seats at the iconic MCG
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As previously noted by one or two members, the pitches in England make it difficult for quality young players to prosper. Players like Darrens Stevens and Masters and Keith Barker are/were always near the top of the wickets column. Imagine them bowling to Smith at Perth or Kohli in Mumbai - carnage. The dukes ball also comes into play although when trialled in the Sheffield shield it proved less effective on hard pitches
We need good batting pitches in the CC - for the first two days at least - where pace makes a difference. Tom Helm and George Garton should be encouraged to go 90mph+ not left out of the teams for 80mph line and lengthers.
These hard pitches will also encourage the likes of Joe Clarke and Liam Livingstone to play their shots not simply survive
At the moment the CC is producing players that prosper in English conditions along with probably NZ and maybe SA. In the rest of the world we look clueless.
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A bit sad to see so many empty seats at the iconic MCG
Not a particularly nice way to describe the barmy army. :D
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This is a good innings by Warner here showing patience. Interesting to hear if he scores a 100 he would be the only player to score a 100 in both innings 4 times. Hope I just didn’t put the curse on him
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This is a good innings by Warner here showing patience. Interesting to hear if he scores a 100 he would be the only player to score a 100 in both innings 4 times. Hope I just didn’t put the curse on him
At today's strike rate, is there enough time?
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At today's strike rate, is there enough time?
If the keep Ali on he will score 200
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This is a good innings by Warner here showing patience. Interesting to hear if he scores a 100 he would be the only player to score a 100 in both innings 4 times. Hope I just didn’t put the curse on him
You realise you have....
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Warner has a massive brainfade. Throws away the chance to create history. The door is ajar
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After such patience too... oh dear
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As previously noted by one or two members, the pitches in England make it difficult for quality young players to prosper. Players like Darrens Stevens and Masters and Keith Barker are/were always near the top of the wickets column. Imagine them bowling to Smith at Perth or Kohli in Mumbai - carnage. The dukes ball also comes into play although when trialled in the Sheffield shield it proved less effective on hard pitches
We need good batting pitches in the CC - for the first two days at least - where pace makes a difference. Tom Helm and George Garton should be encouraged to go 90mph+ not left out of the teams for 80mph line and lengthers.
These hard pitches will also encourage the likes of Joe Clarke and Liam Livingstone to play their shots not simply survive
At the moment the CC is producing players that prosper in English conditions along with probably NZ and maybe SA. In the rest of the world we look clueless.
Keith Barker's a decent bowler to be fair! Pitches are starting to go the right way I think, hopefully it carries on that way. Unless it's spoilt by the CC being played in April/September.
Moaning about lack of talent is a bit premature, there's plenty of prospects out there. Problem for us at the moment is they're mostly young and inexperienced - Livingstone, Clarke, Helm, Tongue, Hameed, Bess, the Parkinsons, Foakes, Norwell, Duckett, Lawrence, Sam Curran etc etc etc. Some of them will come good, but as Hameed showed it might not be yet! As for 18 counties, come on... never stopped us producing talent in the past. Cutting down on counties to produce more talent is up there with taking the game off terrestrial TV to find new audiences in the pantheon of great cricket admin ideas.
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Ricky Ponting remains the closest batsman to nearly score a hundred in each innings four times.
149 & 104* vs WI
120 & 143* vs SA
103 & 116 vs SA
101 & 99 also against SA. That one measly run...
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Announcement today that Ashton Agar has been selected for the fifth test. Suggestion Hazlewood or Cummins will be rested.
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Bairstow is pretty quick in the field even with the pads on. I just saw that he almost caught up with fielder chasing the Shaun Marsh (his first runs edged for four) edge to the boundary.
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Fantastic take from YJB
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After such patience too... oh dear
Impresive knock though
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Keith Barker's a decent bowler to be fair! Pitches are starting to go the right way I think, hopefully it carries on that way. Unless it's spoilt by the CC being played in April/September.
Moaning about lack of talent is a bit premature, there's plenty of prospects out there. Problem for us at the moment is they're mostly young and inexperienced - Livingstone, Clarke, Helm, Tongue, Hameed, Bess, the Parkinsons, Foakes, Norwell, Duckett, Lawrence, Sam Curran etc etc etc. Some of them will come good, but as Hameed showed it might not be yet! As for 18 counties, come on... never stopped us producing talent in the past. Cutting down on counties to produce more talent is up there with taking the game off terrestrial TV to find new audiences in the pantheon of great cricket admin ideas.
Duckett!!! Oh my life
Test cricketer ?? Really?? That is scraping the barrel if he’s in your talented list
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Duckett!!! Oh my life
Test cricketer ?? Really?? That is scraping the barrel if he’s in your talented list
Ah give the lad some credit, he's definitely a talent! And as evidenced by his stint in test cricket, definitely not ready either! You don't get called up for a test debut at 22 without a bit of ability to be fair. Some of that list will make it but I'm sure plenty won't too, who knows which side he'll end up on.
What do we reckon, looking like we could snatch a win on the last day? Don't see Mitchell Marsh as a bloke to stick around blocking.
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Keith Barker's a decent bowler to be fair! Pitches are starting to go the right way I think, hopefully it carries on that way. Unless it's spoilt by the CC being played in April/September.
Moaning about lack of talent is a bit premature, there's plenty of prospects out there. Problem for us at the moment is they're mostly young and inexperienced - Livingstone, Clarke, Helm, Tongue, Hameed, Bess, the Parkinsons, Foakes, Norwell, Duckett, Lawrence, Sam Curran etc etc etc. Some of them will come good, but as Hameed showed it might not be yet! As for 18 counties, come on... never stopped us producing talent in the past. Cutting down on counties to produce more talent is up there with taking the game off terrestrial TV to find new audiences in the pantheon of great cricket admin ideas.
I may have done Barker a slight misservice there as he does swing the new ball albeit at 80mph.
I dont think having 18 counties is in anyway harmful. My complaint is the pitches which encourage medium pace seam bowlers which will not be succesful in Test cricket on 90% of the grounds used. There should always be a place for good swing bowlers with a new ball. And on hard piches reverse swing bowlers as the ball gets older. And spin from day 3 onwards
I dont either think there is a lack of talent - alot of those guys you mention have potential for an international career of some sort.
My question is this - would Darren Stevens take 50 wickets in a Sheffield Shield season? Id be surprised if he took 5. No slight on him by the way, he bowls to his conditions very well
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Batting for time is so difficult. England should wrap this up not long after tea.
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Batting for time is so difficult. England should wrap this up not long after tea.
2 wickets in the first session with nearly a 50 run lead and they are taking the next 6 in an hour or so with no runs added? Draw surely is the favorite.
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2 wickets in the first session with nearly a 50 run lead and they are taking the next 6 in an hour or so with no runs added? Draw surely is the favorite.
Yeah ok its unlikely. I guess ive just become accustomed to an aussie middle order collapse.
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It won’t be 5-0 YAAAAAY
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Stokes pulled from the one day squad and Malan in
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Stokes pulled from the one day squad and Malan in
Seems the stokes case is one of the great mysteries of the world.... has been around since the same time as the pyramids ( well it feels like that now ) and still no one knows how either came about . ;)
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Seems the stokes case is one of the great mysteries of the world.... has been around since the same time as the pyramids ( well it feels like that now ) and still no one knows how either came about . ;)
I know what you mean and they have granted him permission to play in the IPL. Not that they could have stopped him really.
Ben Stokes given permission by ECB to play in the Indian Premier League - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42533216 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42533216)
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A typical Von Strauss deleted-up...
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So - Crane for the next test? What are peoples views, will he acquit himself well, or will he get bummed out of the stadium?
I'm suggesting 3 seamers plus him and Ali - crazy I know, but it may spark something in Mo bowling in tandem,
I, for one hope Crane does really, really, really, really well, and tears up the town!
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All the interviews/social media talk etc... say he's going to play.
The big question is for who. If it's a straight swap for Mo then that puts Woakes at 7 and Curran at 8. Which does look a tad risky considering Starc looks like he maybe back.
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Root needs to manage Crane well, difficult for a young inexperienced captain
Cook would often go to Swann to keep an end quiet....with a leggie it's going to be different.
England like Crane's character let's hope he gets a chance to show it, ther will be bad balls it goes with being a leg spinner.
Moeen wants to be the second spinner as a 'batsman who bowls'. Really really like Mo as a player and he has scored some vital runs for us.....but he is creating a problem going forward.
Stokes, Woakes, Moeen, Bairstow....the allrounders spots are crammed in. Something might have to give in selection.
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Seems the stokes case is one of the great mysteries of the world.... has been around since the same time as the pyramids ( well it feels like that now ) and still no one knows how either came about . ;)
What I can’t work out is how footballer Jon Flanagan assaulted his mrs on the 22nd December on a night out he was arrested charges and been to court (to be sentenced in 17th jan) yet Ben stokes is still waiting from August?
Preferential treatment for a footballer or something much worse for stokes to face?
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What I can’t work out is how footballer Jon Flanagan assaulted his mrs on the 22nd December on a night out he was arrested charges and been to court (to be sentenced in 17th jan) yet Ben stokes is still waiting from August?
Preferential treatment for a footballer or something much worse for stokes to face?
Probably now you would think if he is not charged the police will look bad as maybe costing us the Ashes :)
After this long you would have to think there is going to be a charge, they must want to charge him....but it's the
CPS that make the decision, they will have to be pretty sure a charge will stick otherwise it's a waste of tax payers money.
They will know Stokes lawyer will pick any holes in their case.
I think they will charge him, that would be my guess. Pretty soon too, but we said that back in November!
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What I can’t work out is how footballer Jon Flanagan assaulted his mrs on the 22nd December on a night out he was arrested charges and been to court (to be sentenced in 17th jan) yet Ben stokes is still waiting from August?
Preferential treatment for a footballer or something much worse for stokes to face?
Common assault is usually a summary offence, so Police have the authority to charge. ABH which Stokes is up for is a more serious indictable offence and requires the CPS to decide whether there is sufficient evidence to charge, this makes it a much longer process.
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Talk seems to be Crane in for either Moeen or Curran, depending on if the pitch looks like it’ll spin or not.
My money would be on Moeen playing.
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Common assault is usually a summary offence, so Police have the authority to charge. ABH which Stokes is up for is a more serious indictable offence and requires the CPS to decide whether there is sufficient evidence to charge, this makes it a much longer process.
Ah ok! Makes sense
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Talk seems to be Crane in for either Moeen or Curran, depending on if the pitch looks like it’ll spin or not.
My money would be on Moeen playing.
I agree, if they have the choice of Mo or Curran, think Curran will get the chop as he's another newbie so easy option which England normally employ
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I agree, if they have the choice of Mo or Curran, think Curran will get the chop as he's another newbie so easy option which England normally employ
Agar has been called into the Aussie squad, that gives the option of two specialist spinners for them,. I actually think Crane will play instead of Mo but if we need two spinners you may be right Mo could play and Curran out.
I think England know Moeen is short on confidence and could, and should, take him out of the firing line for now.
I like Mo as a player, he has bailed us out many times, but you could make an argument/discussion Ben Stokes have covered a couple of players in this team who might now be being shown up
I mean Stokes allows us batting and bowling options, and we sure have missed him. I say again, we cannot balance the team at the moment because there is not enough quality to step up
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I think we haven't even tried to balance the team tbh, we don't have a Stokes replacement but the England management have just tried bunging square pegs in round holes instead. Pull Moeen out and replace him with a batsman, he's not bowling many overs anyway. Then Curran probably gets the chop if we want to play Crane.
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I think we haven't even tried to balance the team tbh, we don't have a Stokes replacement but the England management have just tried bunging square pegs in round holes instead. Pull Moeen out and replace him with a batsman, he's not bowling many overs anyway. Then Curran probably gets the chop if we want to play Crane.
They could but if they did that we are a bowler short in theory and we havnt got close to taking 20 wickets in any game I've seen
I suppose you could say Mo does not look like getting wickets but reducing bowling options seems odd
Are you saying we should of had 4 bowlers, excluding Root, from test 1 and just put(in theory) more runs on the board..
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They could but if they did that we are a bowler short in theory and we havnt got close to taking 20 wickets in any game I've seen
I suppose you could say Mo does not look like getting wickets but reducing bowling options seems odd
Are you saying we should of had 4 bowlers, excluding Root, from test 1 and just put(in theory) more runs on the board..
Yep 4 specialist bowlers plus Root/Malan/Vince etc, a specialist spinner should be bowling a lot more overs than Moeen currently is so that covers most of the burden straight away. Part timers can then fill in when needed but there's no point having a 5th bowler if they don't add much, which Mo sadly hasn't been. Then the extra bat should in theory help with some scoreboard pressure. Only risk is that on a real flat one you end up with part timers having to bowl too many overs, but then in that case you're probably heading for a draw anyway.
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Yep 4 specialist bowlers plus Root/Malan/Vince etc, a specialist spinner should be bowling a lot more overs than Moeen currently is so that covers most of the burden straight away. Part timers can then fill in when needed but there's no point having a 5th bowler if they don't add much, which Mo sadly hasn't been. Then the extra bat should in theory help with some scoreboard pressure. Only risk is that on a real flat one you end up with part timers having to bowl too many overs, but then in that case you're probably heading for a draw anyway.
Malan has done fairly well when he has bowled, he seems to land it in the right area
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Malan has done fairly well when he has bowled, he seems to land it in the right area
Not looked like taking a wicket though and test Cricket is about taking wickets not bowling dry like white ball.
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Not looked like taking a wicket though and test Cricket is about taking wickets not bowling dry like white ball.
That stands for most of England’s bowlers this series though 😂🤣😂
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If Crane was being played, I would rest Mo rather thab taking a pace bolwer out!
We still need 4 pace bowlers and then we can bowl Crane and have Root and Malan to support spin if it starts to turn more!
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If Crane was being played, I would rest Mo rather thab taking a pace bolwer out!
We still need 4 pace bowlers and then we can bowl Crane and have Root and Malan to support spin if it starts to turn more!
I agree with this
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Woakes likely to be ruled out of the last test apparently, which surely means Moeen has to play?
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If Crane was being played, I would rest Mo rather thab taking a pace bolwer out!
We still need 4 pace bowlers and then we can bowl Crane and have Root and Malan to support spin if it starts to turn more!
Sorry but how is averaging 19 with the bat and 100 with the ball deserving of a rest? Moeen(prior to Woakes' injury) was rightly going to be dropped. He's been a total embarrassment on this tour.
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Sorry but how is averaging 19 with the bat and 100 with the ball deserving of a rest? Moeen(prior to Woakes' injury) was rightly going to be dropped. He's been a total embarrassment on this tour.
Really? Resting mo means to me that he isnt good enough on this tour! What would you do? Play him? Why would you play someone like Mo who looks badly out of form?? Jeez!
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Moeen(prior to Woakes' injury) was rightly going to be dropped. He's been a total embarrassment on this tour.
And dropping him completely would be ridiculous! He has had one poor series - but in previous games during 2017 he has been impressive for most of the time! Let's not give up on him just yet ay!!
By all means rest the guy and give someone else a go but let's try to bring his confidence back a little without hanging him out to dry for one poor series!
Just go back a few months and mo was batting getting bucket loads of runs and taking wickets too! We need some depth and experience in the squad and real competition for places if we wamt to compete at the top level.
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Sorry but how is averaging 19 with the bat and 100 with the ball deserving of a rest? Moeen(prior to Woakes' injury) was rightly going to be dropped. He's been a total embarrassment on this tour.
Stick to bigging up SA Ger
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Confirmed Crane in for Woakes... and Starc in for Bird. Bairstow best have been practising farming the strike in the nets!
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And dropping him completely would be ridiculous! He has had one poor series - but in previous games during 2017 he has been impressive for most of the time! Let's not give up on him just yet ay!!
By all means rest the guy and give someone else a go but let's try to bring his confidence back a little without hanging him out to dry for one poor series!
Just go back a few months and mo was batting getting bucket loads of runs and taking wickets too! We need some depth and experience in the squad and real competition for places if we wamt to compete at the top level.
Moeen Ali is a luxury cricketer. He's simply neither a batsman good enough for the top 6 nor is he a front line spinner. You can get away with an average player like Moeen when Stokes and Woakes are playing.
Moeen dipped his bread against South Africa granted but his bowling returned to dross against a fairly weak West Indies side. His efforts against South Africa should be deemed more a fluke than his career really turning a corner.
In all away matches Moeen averages mid 20s with the bat and 48 with the ball. He's just not very good.
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Confirmed Crane in for Woakes... and Starc in for Bird. Bairstow best have been practising farming the strike in the nets!
So our attack will be Anderson and Broad plus a guy in his 2nd Test, a leggie on debut and Mo who's averaging lots at the moment.
Going to be interesting who Root throws the ball to 1st after Anderson and Broad.
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So our attack will be Anderson and Broad plus a guy in his 2nd Test, a leggie on debut and Mo who's averaging lots at the moment.
Going to be interesting who Root throws the ball to 1st after Anderson and Broad.
Himself?
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On a slight tangent, Glenn maxwell has been panned from the Australian limited overs side in place of Chris Lynn, whom doesn't even play for Queensland as present. I wonder if a county side could tempt maxwell with a kolpak deal...
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Probably not - he earns sufficiently well from his T20 engagements that he doesn't really need the circa £150'000 that a Kolpak might bring him.
Not sure why he is so out of favour though - he did well in India last year, probably batted better than anyone other than Smith, and has been scoring for fun in the Shield.
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Moeen Ali is a luxury cricketer. He's simply neither a batsman good enough for the top 6 nor is he a front line spinner. You can get away with an average player like Moeen when Stokes and Woakes are playing.
Moeen dipped his bread against South Africa granted but his bowling returned to dross against a fairly weak West Indies side. His efforts against South Africa should be deemed more a fluke than his career really turning a corner.
In all away matches Moeen averages mid 20s with the bat and 48 with the ball. He's just not very good.
Moeen has the ability to bat in the top 6 at test cricket but that's not what England have wanted him to be and as a result he's been messed around a little bit because he's so versatile. He's batted at every position from 1-9 in test matches which is kinda ridiculous.
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Moeen has the ability to bat in the top 6 at test cricket but that's not what England have wanted him to be and as a result he's been messed around a little bit because he's so versatile. He's batted at every position from 1-9 in test matches which is kinda ridiculous.
Got to disagree with that - he has played some innings which suggest he has the potential required, but for periods of time he has played like a number eight, which in Test terms is exactly what he is, someone who can damage an opposing team with his counter attacking game, but not someone who is going to make serious runs under the greatest of pressure. He is too loose in his choice of shots, and poor against the short ball.
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Rumours Stokes decision was made 3 weeks ago and will be announced after the third test
No charges.
If that turns out to be true then I think it will wind up a lot of England fans
And does not explain why he is not in the one day team-unless of course ecb did that as part of any diciplinary action
Just a rumour thou :)
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I think it would be a very controversial decision to charge Stokes - which I have said all along. They have witnesses to corroborate his account, and footage (which, lets remember, we have only seen in the Murdoch Empire's lkeast favourable edit) that shows the other party weilding a bottle as a weapon. They would in effect be charging him on the basis of the final shot, ignoring what went before.
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Got to disagree with that - he has played some innings which suggest he has the potential required, but for periods of time he has played like a number eight, which in Test terms is exactly what he is, someone who can damage an opposing team with his counter attacking game, but not someone who is going to make serious runs under the greatest of pressure. He is too loose in his choice of shots, and poor against the short ball.
Surely he plays like an eight because they bat him at eight?
He's a top order bat for Worcestershire but has changed his game in order to do what the England management have asked of him, where many players would have kicked up a fuss and complained about being played out of position.
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Surely he plays like an eight because they bat him at eight?
He's a top order bat for Worcestershire but has changed his game in order to do what the England management have asked of him, where many players would have kicked up a fuss and complained about being played out of position.
What a bunch of nonsense. Moeen has twice scored centuries when batting in the top 6, both came on the last tour of India - pitches where there's no pace and no real bounce. If there's any pace and bounce Moeen immediately gets found out. He's scared of the ball.
He's hidden at 8 in home matches because of the Stokes factor.
Moeen is no more than a luxury
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To be honest I think all this talk just shows how big a part Stokes plays in balancing the team, combining a genuine 4th seamer and genuine top 6 bat. Regardless of the reasons behind why he did what he did or whether he's guilty of anything or not, which I'm not getting into again, I hope he knows how badly he's let his teammates down by allowing himself to get into that situation in the first place.
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Surely he plays like an eight because they bat him at eight?
He's a top order bat for Worcestershire but has changed his game in order to do what the England management have asked of him, where many players would have kicked up a fuss and complained about being played out of position.
I don't think we see a significant difference in his approach wherever he bats - he is too loose on the drive and too vulnerable to the short ball to be an international top order batsman, and has played some of the most awful hacks I've seen from an England player over the last few years. Thats not to say he has not got his values - as I said before, as a counterattacking option down the order when a frontline spinner is not necessary, he is of course great - but I don't think you can really argue that he is one of the best six batsmen in England (remember, he has NEVER been selected as a batsman, only as a bowler who bats).
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What a bunch of nonsense. Moeen has twice scored centuries when batting in the top 6, both came on the last tour of India - pitches where there's no pace and no real bounce. If there's any pace and bounce Moeen immediately gets found out. He's scared of the ball.
He's hidden at 8 in home matches because of the Stokes factor.
Moeen is no more than a luxury
You've mentioned Moeen's away stats in a couple of threads now as proof of his ineptitude, Jimmy Anderson took seven years and 24 away tests before his away average dropped below 40.
Luxury player?
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You've mentioned Moeen's away stats in a couple of threads now as proof of his ineptitude
I don't think ineptitude is the right word - I would prefer unsuitability. At present, Mo is taking up the all rounders slot in the absence of Stokes - he is supposed to be a frontline spinner who can score runs at seven (six at the start of the series). Is he scoring runs? No. Does he look like ever scoring them? Sadly, No. Wickets? Same.
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I don't think ineptitude is the right word - I would prefer unsuitability. At present, Mo is taking up the all rounders slot in the absence of Stokes - he is supposed to be a frontline spinner who can score runs at seven (six at the start of the series). Is he scoring runs? No. Does he look like ever scoring them? Sadly, No. Wickets? Same.
I'm not saying he's not been rubbish on this tour, it's the worst I've ever seen him play. I'm saying that using this tour as proof that he's not a test all-rounder is silly.
Murali averaged what, 75 down under in his career? Yasir Shah averaged 80+ not that long ago. It's a tough place for visiting spinners at the best of times, much less when you're barely fit with a side strain, a torn up spinning finger and your side is getting hammered out of sight.
Now, I don't think he shouldn't have been selected if he wasn't fully fit but that's a different argument from the "Ha, I told you he wasn't any good" from people who only look at things after they've stripped away any and all context.
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I'm not saying he's not been rubbish on this tour, it's the worst I've ever seen him play. I'm saying that using this tour as proof that he's not a test all-rounder is silly.
Murali averaged what, 75 down under in his career? Yasir Shah averaged 80+ not that long ago. It's a tough place for visiting spinners at the best of times, much less when you're barely fit with a side strain, a torn up spinning finger and your side is getting hammered out of sight.
Now, I don't think he shouldn't have been selected if he wasn't fully fit but that's a different argument from the "Ha, I told you he wasn't any good" from people who only look at things after they've stripped away any and all context.
I don't think I ever said he was no good, I just said that he has always been a horses for courses selection, someone who fills a happy gap created by our having Stokes and Bairstow. I only have an issue when it is mistakenly thought that he is a test class all rounder - he is not, as he is not good enough to be picked as a specialist bat, or as a specialist bowler.
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I don't think I ever said he was no good, I just said that he has always been a horses for courses selection, someone who fills a happy gap created by our having Stokes and Bairstow. I only have an issue when it is mistakenly thought that he is a test class all rounder - he is not, as he is not good enough to be picked as a specialist bat, or as a specialist bowler.
tbf that part wasn't directed at you, more of a general observation. Enough with the Moeen stuff anyway, just gonna go round and round
What is everybody hoping/expecting to see from Crane?
Personally I'm more interested in seeing how Root handles him than how Crane himself does. Spinners, and leggies in particular, need a lot of faith from the captain and you have to let them get smashed a bit before they find their rhythm. I'm not sure that Root is confident enough in his own captaincy to sit back and let Crane go for 15-20 from a couple of overs without taking him off and replacing him with a more senior bowler.
I know that part of the thinking might be trying to protect his confidence but, speaking as a terrible leggie myself, there is nothing worse than getting taken off after a bad over only to watch another boring up and down medium pacer take over from your end. The reason I say that is because that results in a situation where a batsman mis-hits a slog over the short cow corner boundary and then slices one past point for four and instead of feeling confident that the batsmen isn't comfortable your mind goes straight to "Great, the skipper is going to take me off now isn't he?" and the rest of that over ends up being half-hearted dross.
Crane should be allowed the leeway to take 1 for 100 because without that experience, he'll never become the spinner that will take test five-fers in the long run.
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Moeen has the ability to bat in the top 6 at test cricket but that's not what England have wanted him to be and as a result he's been messed around a little bit because he's so versatile. He's batted at every position from 1-9 in test matches which is kinda ridiculous.
Moeen is a batsman who bowls a bit but not a specialist spinner
He has been tried in the top six and opened and he wasn't a success he also as a problem with the short ball
He's a decent eight test match bat.
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tbf that part wasn't directed at you, more of a general observation. Enough with the Moeen stuff anyway, just gonna go round and round
What is everybody hoping/expecting to see from Crane?
Personally I'm more interested in seeing how Root handles him than how Crane himself does. Spinners, and leggies in particular, need a lot of faith from the captain and you have to let them get smashed a bit before they find their rhythm. I'm not sure that Root is confident enough in his own captaincy to sit back and let Crane go for 15-20 from a couple of overs without taking him off and replacing him with a more senior bowler.
I know that part of the thinking might be trying to protect his confidence but, speaking as a terrible leggie myself, there is nothing worse than getting taken off after a bad over only to watch another boring up and down medium pacer take over from your end. The reason I say that is because that results in a situation where a batsman mis-hits a slog over the short cow corner boundary and then slices one past point for four and instead of feeling confident that the batsmen isn't comfortable your mind goes straight to "Great, the skipper is going to take me off now isn't he?" and the rest of that over ends up being half-hearted dross.
Crane should be allowed the leeway to take 1 for 100 because without that experience, he'll never become the spinner that will take test five-fers in the long run.
This is what I worry about with Crane, England have to, as you say, let him go for some runs without punishment.
Another thing I worry about with the Crane selection. What happens if he takes a Michelle in this test match and Mo struggles again, then we move on to NZ green seamers? Does Crane get dropped as there is no need for 2 spinners? Does Mo get dropped as the out of form spin option? Does someone like Vince get dropped and Mo bats at 5 (Root and Malan moving up) and only bowls part time?
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This is what I worry about with Crane, England have to, as you say, let him go for some runs without punishment.
Another thing I worry about with the Crane selection. What happens if he takes a Michelle in this test match and Mo struggles again, then we move on to NZ green seamers? Does Crane get dropped as there is no need for 2 spinners? Does Mo get dropped as the out of form spin option? Does someone like Vince get dropped and Mo bats at 5 (Root and Malan moving up) and only bowls part time?
Worry about NZ when it comes around! but i do take your point.
Crane is here, he is playing, good luck to the lad.
I personally hope that Anderson and Broad get a couple early on - then Root can throw the ball to Crane knowing he has a few in the bank.
The worse scenario will be Aus are 85/1 and Warner is 50 odd and in playing well - then where does Root go - has he got the nuts to give the ball to Crane to bowl at left handed Warner etc....
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It will be interesting to see whether there are some "rested" players for New Zealand, or whether we go with a full strength side.
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It will be interesting to see whether there are some "rested" players for New Zealand, or whether we go with a full strength side.
Anything other than a full strength side will lose to the Kiwis and even a full team will struggle.
The Kiwis are a very good side.
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This is what I worry about with Crane, England have to, as you say, let him go for some runs without punishment.
Another thing I worry about with the Crane selection. What happens if he takes a Michelle in this test match and Mo struggles again, then we move on to NZ green seamers? Does Crane get dropped as there is no need for 2 spinners? Does Mo get dropped as the out of form spin option? Does someone like Vince get dropped and Mo bats at 5 (Root and Malan moving up) and only bowls part time?
Totally agree with this, England need to find a proper spinner. It’s not about the next tour, it’s about some long term planning to win overseas
Root says we are now planning the next ashes trip to win over there, we need to back that up with actions
Whether we can have Mo and another spinner in the same side I’m not sure
But some England players need to start delivering, not just Ali
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tbf that part wasn't directed at you, more of a general observation. Enough with the Moeen stuff anyway, just gonna go round and round
What is everybody hoping/expecting to see from Crane?
Well, he's probably the third ormaybe even fourth best leggie in England at present - albeit one more promising than two of the other three - so I would like to see him given a proper chance, with long spells and a decent balance between close catchers and boundary riders. The key thing is he gets a proper experience rather than being shown all the ways he is not yet at the level.
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Anything other than a full strength side will lose to the Kiwis and even a full team will struggle.
The Kiwis are a very good side.
Not sure I'd stretch to very, but they are certainly decent in their home conditions, and with a superb seam attack.
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Not sure I'd stretch to very, but they are certainly decent in their home conditions, and with a superb seam attack.
I'd say that some of their batting isn't too bad either!!
Buzz is correct....we don't want to underestimate NZ or they will bite us hard!
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Worry about NZ when it comes around! but i do take your point.
Crane is here, he is playing, good luck to the lad.
I personally hope that Anderson and Broad get a couple early on - then Root can throw the ball to Crane knowing he has a few in the bank.
The worse scenario will be Aus are 85/1 and Warner is 50 odd and in playing well - then where does Root go - has he got the nuts to give the ball to Crane to bowl at left handed Warner etc....
I agree, but glad you see my point, it's all very well "investing in a young spinner" but if he's just gonna get dropped after his first test anyways you're not really investing in him are you.
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On the subject of Maxwell, Smiffy with some interesting quotes in this article:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42550997 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42550997)
"We want consistent performances from him," said captain Steve Smith.
"If he keeps switched on, trains well and focuses on basics more than expansive things, that will help him have consistency and if he's doing that, you want him in the team."
Smith added: "Looking at the way he trains, he could train a bit smarter.
"We've seen the way he can play and do all his funky stuff and be pretty cool with that, but when he puts his head down he's a really good batsman."
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I'd say that some of their batting isn't too bad either!!
Buzz is correct....we don't want to underestimate NZ or they will bite us hard!
Raval, Latham, Williamson, Taylor, Nicolls is a decent line up, but not one that will really hurt a team.
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Raval, Latham, Williamson, Taylor, Nicolls is a decent line up, but not one that will really hurt a team.
Williamson & Taylor certainly can hurt a team!
Plus de Grandhomme, Watling and Santner coming after that 5 can do some damage.
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Personally I rate Williamson as one of the top half dozen batsmen over the past year!
And the others are not too shabby either. As I said, with bowling too, it would be a big mistake to underestimate them!! :(
Anyway, back to tomorrow. Looking forward to seeing how Crane gets on. I reckon they will go after him ;)
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Ali dismissed by lyon 6 times in 4 tests ....wow !
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Lyon has bowled beautifully this series... World Class
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Ali seemed to go on the 'hit out or get out' last match which doesn't really work even at our level...I actually did a thread on how to get out of a rut (as I do find myself in them, a fair bit! :)). Having a whack without getting your eye on is just not going to work...in fact it's the worst 20 mins batting I've seen in a test since Tufnell against the Windies.
Lyon has bowled well as he's a proven test bowler. I have read some comments on here from more biased Aussie fans saying we said he was rubbish
Well there are far more comments saying he would walk into the England side as a specialist. He generally bowls well and you can't argue with his record.
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Mason Crane was sponsored by Newbery when he flew out to Australia.
His Twitter bio now says sponsored by New Balance. What stick will he walk out with?
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Mason Crane was sponsored by Newbery when he flew out to Australia.
His Twitter bio now says sponsored by New Balance. What stick will he walk out with?
That’s poor. Toby Roland jones all over again
I don’t like it..I just don’t like it.
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Mason Crane was sponsored by Newbery when he flew out to Australia.
His Twitter bio now says sponsored by New Balance. What stick will he walk out with?
Stoneman is a proper hero for staying with Kippax isn't he. Imagine the size of the cheques being waved at him before the tour.
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To be fair if someone was offering me a hell of a lot more money to wear their gear then i would take it...
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Feel sorry for Ali to be selected for this test.
The guy can't fall much further than he already has this tour.
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To be fair if someone was offering me a hell of a lot more money to wear their gear then i would take it...
Oh yeah can't blame them at all, short career and all that. Remember when GM snapped up Jake Ball, Charlie French was being quoted as saying something along the lines of he was a bit miffed until Ball told him how much money he was getting! Just nice to see when a big name stays loyal to a small company who've helped them out.
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Those local companys aren't sponsoring promising cricketers out of the goodness of their hearts though
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Ali seemed to go on the 'hit out or get out' last match which doesn't really work even at our level...I actually did a thread on how to get out of a rut (as I do find myself in them, a fair bit! :)). Having a whack without getting your eye on is just not going to work...in fact it's the worst 20 mins batting I've seen in a test since Tufnell against the Windies.
Lyon has bowled well as he's a proven test bowler. I have read some comments on here from more biased Aussie fans saying we said he was rubbish
Well there are far more comments saying he would walk into the England side as a specialist. He generally bowls well and you can't argue with his record.
Not sure about the more biased Aussie fans comment but you have been the main person on this forum praising Lyons performances for a long time now... Many more haven’t been over the last 2 years
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The expression "clubie" was bandied about by more than one expert on here.
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I hope Senior wasn't listening to TMS half an hour ago when Glenn McGrath, who didn't know Woakes was injured, found out he wasn't in the team.
McGrath said that he had spoken to a few of the Aussie batsmen and they told him that, despite bowling too short in the series, when he bowled in the right areas the Aussie batsmen thought Woakes was the best of the English bowlers.
EDIT: His exact words -
"It's a bit of a strange one, cos talking to a few of the Australian batsmen they were saying they felt that Woakes was, at stages the best bowler. He has bowled too short, at stages, without a doubt but..." at that point McGrath was told Woakes was out with a side strain.
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So Overton and Woakes have missed tests due to injury (although crane may have been in for woakes regardless) . Thats 2 pommie pacemen down in the ashes vs 1 test missed by starc for the aussies .
I'm sure i was told once or twice pre series that none of the aussie pacemen would make it through the series !?!?!
Oh well....
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Mason Crane was sponsored by Newbery when he flew out to Australia.
His Twitter bio now says sponsored by New Balance. What stick will he walk out with?
Id guess a Newbery with a new Balance sticker on it
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Id guess a Newbery with a new Balance sticker on it
Or a TK/Aldred with NB stickers ;)
So Overton and Woakes have missed tests due to injury (although crane may have been in for woakes regardless) . Thats 2 pommie pacemen down in the ashes vs 1 test missed by starc for the aussies .
I'm sure i was told once or twice pre series that none of the aussie pacemen would make it through the series !?!?!
Oh well....
Starc looks like he should be missing here too, bowling dobblers so far, pretty selfish to insist to play if he’s not fit.
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Or a TK/Aldred with NB stickers ;)
Starc looks like he should be missing here too, bowling dobblers so far, pretty selfish to insist to play if he’s not fit.
Not sure where your info is coming from but it’s not up to him to insist to play and he is 100% fit.
Dobblers? 135-145kph 13 overs 4 maidens 0 for 42 economy rate of 3.23 Not sure I’d be calling that dobblers 😂 🤣
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His pace has certainly been down on the first three tests. Could just be a lack of bowling issue, or could be he isn’t 100%, but the fact he keeps holding his heel suggests the latter.
I’d also imagine a senior player like him has a pretty big day in whether he feels fit to play or not.
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That’s poor. Toby Roland jones all over again
I don’t like it..I just don’t like it.
Whilst a shame for Newbery, the majority of big name sponsorship contracts are for the calendar year - it's highly likely NB will have snapped him up a while back and it's just been under the radar until now.
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Whilst a shame for Newbery, the majority of big name sponsorship contracts are for the calendar year - it's highly likely NB will have snapped him up a while back and it's just been under the radar until now.
Of course you at correct there, the same contract almost certainly applies to Stoneman who is not an established test player by any means.
It may be old fashioned but like @edge, a player sticking with a smaller company so they get exposure as well brings a smile to my face.
It doesn't happen very often in the modern day. I really like Stoneman as a player it's just another reason to like him. opening the batting for England in an Ashes tour is big exposure for a manufacturer.
Ravi bops used Warsop in a purple patch a few years ago, their sales of the platinum model increased hugely and that can only be good for a small company.
They did send Bops 30 odd bats in a season once as I asked them when I was down there :)
He did of course get a contract with GM.
You can't blame any player for taking a contract, it's just nice to see some loyalty.
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The expression "clubie" was bandied about by more than one expert on here.
Yes correct it was used more than once. Misguided in the extreme I would suggest.
I'm looking for the 'experts' as well :)
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His pace has certainly been down on the first three tests. Could just be a lack of bowling issue, or could be he isn’t 100%, but the fact he keeps holding his heel suggests the latter.
I’d also imagine a senior player like him has a pretty big day in whether he feels fit to play or not.
Apparently the final say is the “on duty selector” at the ground along with coach and captain. Lehman said before play he was fully fit. If he isn’t then they have made the wrong call... Silly if he proves to be not 100%
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By the same token do back sponsors to show loyalty to players who say drop out of 1st class cricket?
Do they get offered the same deal if they’re only playing ECBPL the season afterwards.
It’s nice to see loyalty occasionally, but I don’t think we can expect it.
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Apparently the final say is the “on duty selector” at the ground along with coach and captain. Lehman said before play he was fully fit. If he isn’t then they have made the wrong call... Silly if he proves to be not 100%
he’s for sure not 100% but the quirks never are.
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Dawid Malan must be getting an awful lot of confidence from this tour.
Didn't see him doing so well myself before the tour although I thought Stoneman would.
With the selectors taking some blame for this tour, should they be praised now for his selection?
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Starc holding his heel again, this could be a terrible decision if England manage not to get rolled for 250 tomorrow morning.
EDIT- didn’t count on them getting started tonight.
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Joe out for 83...yet another missed 100
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Fudge Jonny gone as well
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Another pretty 50 for Root... 🙄
Is it time to start questioning whether he has the temperament to bat so high in the order? 50-80 is never going to win you test matches.
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Another pretty 50 for Root... 🙄
Is it time to start questioning whether he has the temperament to bat so high in the order? 50-80 is never going to win you test matches.
Maybe if we had others that could take his spot, a pretty 50-80 is better than a pretty 0-30.
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Absolutely criminal from Root. To get out at that point when Aus has just taken the new ball and expose everyone.
Also i have to ask where is the nightwatchman!
I really can't see us getting us getting 300 - unless somehow Mo finds some form!
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Foolish decision from Jonny to go in tonight!
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Foolish decision from Jonny to go in tonight!
Yep just heard from Malan on TMS that apparently the management leave it up to Batsman to make the decision
Even if Woakes isn't playing then someone else could do the role - Broad
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England simply not clinical enough, and behind the Aussies in that aspect.
I can't see Smith flicking one to square leg after hitting 2 4's in a row just before the end of play - he'd have done everything in his power to still be there tomorrow, piling the runs on
Same with Bairstow - all you had to do was block out 6 balls man!!!!!!
I wonder if we are seeing the flaws in Bayliss's super positive, one-day orientated approach.
and as for letting the England batters decide whether to send out a nightwatchman or not - have a word with yourselves, send out a lamb to the slaughter (Anderson, Currant) and have your batters in the hutch for tomorrow.
Clueless from the management, clueless from the senior batters.
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England simply not clinical enough, and behind the Aussies in that aspect.
I can't see Smith flicking one to square leg after hitting 2 4's in a row just before the end of play - he'd have done everything in his power to still be there tomorrow, piling the runs on
Same with Bairstow - all you had to do was block out 6 balls man!!!!!!
I wonder if we are seeing the flaws in Bayliss's super positive, one-day orientated approach.
and as for letting the England batters decide whether to send out a nightwatchman or not - have a word with yourselves, send out a lamb to the slaughter (Anderson, Currant) and have your batters in the hutch for tomorrow.
Clueless from the management, clueless from the senior batters.
Completely agree with you Cat.
Baylis' position surely has to be in question if we lose/get panned in the One Day Tri-Series against AUs and NZ
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Now I know I'm going to get ridiculed for this, but I'm going to propose the following starting line-up for New Zealand (if fit).
The idea is to re-set a few players who are in a bad trot, or who need a bit of a re-think about everything (Root and Ali) and bring experience to the youngsters whilst they are fresh and excited to be playing for England. NZ will be a decent side, but this is an opportunity to put a few things straight.
Farbrace to coach solo, send Bayliss home.
Cook
Stoneman
Gubbins (insert alternative opening bat here, not a much lauded middle order bodge-job)
Bairstow
Malan *
Foakes +
Woakes
Currant
Overton (if fit)
Crane
Anderson
Squad options - Broad / Leach / Jo Clarke
I appreciate Woakes at 7 might be seen as too high, but I reckon he's got the skills for it.
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Now I know I'm going to get ridiculed for this, but I'm going to propose the following starting line-up for New Zealand (if fit).
The idea is to re-set a few players who are in a bad trot, or who need a bit of a re-think about everything (Root and Ali) and bring experience to the youngsters whilst they are fresh and excited to be playing for England. NZ will be a decent side, but this is an opportunity to put a few things straight.
Farbrace to coach solo, send Bayliss home.
Cook
Stoneman
Gubbins (insert alternative opening bat here, not a much lauded middle order bodge-job)
Bairstow
Malan *
Foakes +
Woakes
Currant
Overton (if fit)
Crane
Anderson
Squad options - Broad / Leach / Jo Clarke
I appreciate Woakes at 7 might be seen as too high, but I reckon he's got the skills for it.
Bit early to be on the sauce isn't it Brucie! I understand your thinking but there's no way that Root will get rested, I think NZ would lick their lips looking at that team, I reckon Foakes, Woakes and Curran may be a spot too high. Also if Root was rested wouldn't Jimmy take the arm band as current vice captain?
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I like Root as a batsman but I really don’t think he has the dusters to be Captain. I’d like to see him just bat and not have the pressure of Captain
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I like Root as a batsman but I really don’t think he has the dusters to be Captain. I’d like to see him just bat and not have the pressure of Captain
Absolutely agree - he's not currently able to be skipper and top batsman, it's too much for him. I know the ECB would never do it, bit I would give him a month off from NZ to re-charge. Jimmy as vice captain is a bit of a waste of time, he doesn't captain anyway and he'll be gone in a year.
Maybe a better line up would be -
Cook
Stoneman
Gubbins (or AN Other)
Malan *
Clarke
Bairstow +
Livingstone
Woakes
Overton
Crane
Anderson
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Now I know I'm going to get ridiculed for this, but I'm going to propose the following starting line-up for New Zealand (if fit).
The idea is to re-set a few players who are in a bad trot, or who need a bit of a re-think about everything (Root and Ali) and bring experience to the youngsters whilst they are fresh and excited to be playing for England. NZ will be a decent side, but this is an opportunity to put a few things straight.
Farbrace to coach solo, send Bayliss home.
Cook
Stoneman
Gubbins (insert alternative opening bat here, not a much lauded middle order bodge-job)
Bairstow
Malan *
Foakes +
Woakes
Currant
Overton (if fit)
Crane
Anderson
Squad options - Broad / Leach / Jo Clarke
I appreciate Woakes at 7 might be seen as too high, but I reckon he's got the skills for it.
Skills for 7 he has shown in this series he can't get runs or stay in at 8 also if he had hung in with Cook last match rather than expose the tail England might have won.
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Haha, one day you'll warm to Woakesy @Seniorplayer!
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Haha, one day you'll warm to Woakesy @Seniorplayer!
Yes Adam when he wins games for England against proper tests sides
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(https://i.imgur.com/POmecXy.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/POmecXy.jpg)
:D :D :D
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I think that's the nail in the coffin with regards to Root and conversions; just doesn't have the mental head needed to see it through like the others do. Piss poor.
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Piss poor may be somewhat harsh - there remains every chance that he will grow into his batting further the way countless others have before.
I do however wonder how much the captaincy affects him - its one thing, as happened last year a few times, getting out to a good nut when set. Its quite another when you're playing awful shots. Looking at the NZ series, I wonder if:
Stoneman
Cook
Malan
Root
Bairstow (c)
Patel
Foakes (w)
Woakes
Roland-Jones/T Curran
Garton
Anderson
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I love the phrase used on cricinfo to describe James Vince -
"Pretty Starts and Brain-farts" :)
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Current team
Stoneman
Cook
Vince
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
Team for nz and next summer
Cook
Hameed
Gubbins
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
woakes
Leach
Broad
Anderson
Stoneman and Vince have Just not produced. Guts alone aren’t enough and looking pretty isn’t enough. Hameed May have had a bad run but I’d rather back him as he at least scored runs AND showed guts
Gubbins basically in for Vince
Leech in as specialist spinner.. we need wickets and ali is neither good enough with the ball or bat to command a place.
If stokes continues to miss games then I’d slot in a wild card... a luxury player.. pick the fastest bowler we have if we think the wicket will be hard/flat or seam/swing.. if it’s the UAE .. pick a spinner (ali could come in as genuine second spinner for example)
Sure they might go for runs but meh.. just bowl faaaaast for 3/4 overs
I’d give the lot nz and next summer and remove all the above from all white ball games.. if they need to play, pick red ball county/state/province games. Start to make them get away from the white ball mindsets as while some techniques are lacking.. mindset can overcome technical faults
I’d now plan for Anderson and broad to go and get whoever we think there genuine replacements are playing red ball cricket exclusively. Get them learning how to play red ball, in England then when not playing.. away in Aus/Sa.
Just a thought but let’s not persist in picking white ball players for the test team and then wonder why they are consistent or can only perform when it’s flat / no pace
If that means specialising your best players and upping their contracts.. so be it
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Well that was a shock to wake up to after sleeping off night shift... Went to sleep after Root got out! Cannot believe Bayliss/Farbrace/Jimmy/whoever didn't have the wherewithal to tell Bairstow he wasn't going out to bat, that right there tells you plenty about the leadership of this England side.
As for the NZ tour, I think I'd stick with Stoneman for now and if he fails then in goes Hameed for the foreseeable future. Don't think Gubbins is the answer, unfortunately he got absolutely bugger all last year. I'd like to see Ballance and Vince left out and the squad feature two of Northeast, Clarke, Livingstone and Lawrence - probably Northeast and Clarke. Succession planning for Broad and Jimmy needs to start, I'd start by giving the promising few proper quicks some callups.
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I don't think as much as we love Bairstow he is the brightest one in the camp, brilliant player no doubt, something missing thou :)
Interesting thou on the night watchman thing, you can look at it two ways, your a proper batsman so get out there and not leave it to someone else, you protect the batters for the next day...Hmmmm.
England leave it up to the individual player. I have seen games thou I'm sure others have, the night watchman goes in, gets out, and then the proper batsman comes in, looks comical.
I don't think root should captain, I think he is our best batsman by miles but he keeps getting out with insignificant scores. 50 or 70 is good but top players get big hundreds.
Northeast and Clarke get mentioned a bit, super players. Technically Clarke could have the game, Northeast is more unorthodox.
It doesn't really matter which way if you score runs.
England generally like to pick younger players. I think Clarke might be a better long term bet.
Vince got out the same way again....he has got some runs but can you see him getting a hundred? I can't.
Stoneman is good,solid pro...we need that up top.
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Vince has to go. He just hasn't got the patience for test cricket.
With regards Root the timings of everything coming up mean that we could give him a real rest by basically saying you aren't playing any white ball cricket. Just let him recharge a bit ready for the NZ tests.
England's schedule after this test -
14th - 28th January - 5 ODI's vs AUS
7th - 18th February - T20i Tri-series vs AUS and NZ
25th Feb - 9th March - 5 ODI'S vs NZ
Then the NZ test series starts on 22nd March.
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The night watchman arguemant is daft if that ball was good enough for Johnny it was good enough for a bowler we know our bowlers can’t bat and probably would have been out quicker meaning Johnny was in anyway would we have had 2 night watchmen? No!
Good on him for taking it on!
Root stop be a tit and getting out when you look comfortable!
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The night watchman arguemant is daft if that ball was good enough for Johnny it was good enough for a bowler we know our bowlers can’t bat and probably would have been out quicker meaning Johnny was in anyway would we have had 2 night watchmen? No!
Good on him for taking it on!
Root stop be a tit and getting out when you look comfortable!
He’s not being a tit.. he’s just mentally not able to consistently bat long. The reason why is anyone’s guess. Personally I believe it’s because of the pre eminence of white ball he’s grown up playing and been playing for Yorkshire and England. If he was brought up and solely played red ball you’d probably see a huge mental difference.
Only a very very very select few are able to play all formats now (sure 10 years ago but white ball has changed a lot since then)
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The night watchman arguemant is daft if that ball was good enough for Johnny it was good enough for a bowler we know our bowlers can’t bat and probably would have been out quicker meaning Johnny was in anyway would we have had 2 night watchmen? No!
Good on him for taking it on!
Root stop be a tit and getting out when you look comfortable!
A night watchman would have needed to take up two minutes to end the days play if they got out, so by the time they walk out to the middle, take guard etc, two balls? And then having gone out there, getting out having a (No Swearing Please) prod at the new ball with two balls left in the day! Any nightwatchman would have done the right thing and left it, not going out there trying to score. Pretty sure he's had a fuss before about having to wait to bat in the morning after a nightwatchman's been used so it's probably a purely selfish decision, think the whole thing reflects really poorly on Bairstow given the situation.
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Root can concentrate - he has batted over a day several times and has several test and first class scores in advance of 150. I think sometimes he gets abit too "in" - but I also wonder to what extent his back problems play into this.
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Root can concentrate - he has batted over a day several times and has several test and first class scores in advance of 150. I think sometimes he gets abit too "in" - but I also wonder to what extent his back problems play into this.
Note the word ‘consistently’
No one is saying he can’t bat long... its whether he can consistently go big. Currently there is no debate in that he can’t.. 4x 50’s 0x 100’s
Smith 4x 50+ but.. converted 3 into 100+
That’s what root Just hasn’t shown., so currently it’s fair to say he can’t do it
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Root can concentrate - he has batted over a day several times and has several test and first class scores in advance of 150. I think sometimes he gets abit too "in" - but I also wonder to what extent his back problems play into this.
Ps he’s our best player currently so the fact he’s scoring 4 x 50’s in 9 innings isn’t exactly bad anyway.. it’s Just he’s not as good as people say until he can consistently go big.
He’d probably get even more runs if at 5 and behind 4 test quality batters
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I honestly don't care about the night watchman decision, it's not something that will make a huge difference in the larger scheme of things.
The real problem is the batsmen that keep giving away their wicket to loose strokes after getting set.
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Finally Smith hangs onto one! Classic catch!!
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Great grab, I don’t think Curran is going to hang around here before going on the attack.
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These drops. Oh my God. Hahahahaha.
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These drops. Oh my God. Hahahahaha.
The Hazelwood one was hysterical
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Still laughing. Village, really.
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Maybe Hazelwood misunderstood people "calling for Moeen to be dropped"
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Bugger.
Good bouncer from Cummins
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Doesn't matter now, 320 all out
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Maybe Hazelwood misunderstood people "calling for Moeen to be dropped"
This is good. :D
But seriously the standard as a whole has been wel below par for the aussies.
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Broad's batting is how I'd envisage 98% of us to behave when facing a fast bowling attack like this
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This is stupid bowling from the Aussies, if they had any brains at all they'd bowl full and straight and Broad would be gone.
Broad knows he's going to get bouncers every time he walks out to the wicket, so they bowl bouncers at him. Curran and Broad are backing away to every delivery and they're just giving them the freedom to swing their bats.
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Broad's batting is how I'd envisage 98% of us to behave when facing a fast bowling attack like this
How many here train to face 85+ mph ?? Sure it’s unpleasnt but id it’s your job you train day in day out against it.. no excuses really
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Good turn in the first over from Crane!
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I'd cut the kid some slack because bowling at lefties is a ballache
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First couple of overs were pretty ropey but Crane's settling into a nice groove now, he's not as bad as I feared.
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I didn't have chance to watch any footage today, how did Crane go?
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He went pretty well actually... A couple of shaky overs but overall we went ok... got some good turn
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I didn't have chance to watch any footage today, how did Crane go?
I didn't watch the final session but he looked alright to me.
Took an over or two to settle into a rhythm but he wasn't bad, only day two so it wasn't turning miles (Didn't see the final session though, only listened to it on TMS and it seemed like both spinners were getting it to do a bit then) but he didn't bowl too much rubbish which was heartening. Bowled a couple of googlies which didn't do much but whatever, it's day two and my first impression was that he's not a Mushtaq Ahmed type bowler who will rely on the googly as a big weapon anyway.
Action looks quite like Stuart MacGill which makes sense, they worked together when Crane was playing grade cricket I think?
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I didn't watch the final session but he looked alright to me.
Took an over or two to settle into a rhythm but he wasn't bad, only day two so it wasn't turning miles (Didn't see the final session though, only listened to it on TMS and it seemed like both spinners were getting it to do a bit then) but he didn't bowl too much rubbish which was heartening. Bowled a couple of googlies which didn't do much but whatever, it's day two and my first impression was that he's not a Mushtaq Ahmed type bowler who will rely on the googly as a big weapon anyway.
Action looks quite like Stuart MacGill which makes sense, they worked together when Crane was playing grade cricket I think?
Yeah he deffo worked with MacGill you're right.
Ahh well that's heartening, not too many leggies outside of Warne do much of a job in the first innings anyways so I suppose it'll be the last innings we should judge him on.
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Yeah he deffo worked with MacGill you're right.
Ahh well that's heartening, not too many leggies outside of Warne do much of a job in the first innings anyways so I suppose it'll be the last innings we should judge him on.
Yeah, I read some of the articles about yesterdays/this morning's play and they are certainly more enthusiastic than I felt but I guess that's just the same thing that happens to every young debutant. You start viewing things through the lens of what might be in the future more than what actually happened today and it's easy to get carried away by potential.
The big thing was that he was fairly consistent, which is the toughest thing for wrist spinners, and the Aussie batsmen showed him a decent amount of respect.
I'm with you in that I want to see him bowling on day four but I don't know if the batsmen can get their act together and actually give them anything to defend.
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Yeah, I read some of the articles about yesterdays/this morning's play and they are certainly more enthusiastic than I felt but I guess that's just the same thing that happens to every young debutant. You start viewing things through the lens of what might be in the future more than what actually happened today and it's easy to get carried away by potential.
The big thing was that he was fairly consistent, which is the toughest thing for wrist spinners, and the Aussie batsmen showed him a decent amount of respect.
I'm with you in that I want to see him bowling on day four but I don't know if the batsmen can get their act together and actually give them anything to defend.
Yeah, we'll have to take some first innings wickets first!
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Keep an eye out for Warne walking over to the England players as they're warming up before the morning session tomorrow so the cameras get a few shots of him chatting to Mason Crane, which will quickly followed by him heaping praise upon him while he commentates and then trying to take some credit if Crane picks up a few wickets.
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Keep an eye out for Warne walking over to the England players as they're warming up before the morning session tomorrow so the cameras get a few shots of him chatting to Mason Crane, which will quickly followed by him heaping praise upon him while he commentates and then trying to take some credit if Crane picks up a few wickets.
That is exactly what will happen :D he heaps praise on any leggie regardless of if they're any good!
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Mediocre Moeen pathetic again.
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Mediocre Moeen pathetic again.
Geriatric Gerry dull and predictable
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Mediocre Moeen pathetic again.
(https://static3.businessinsider.com/image/53f77986eab8ea7373edb7b1/walken-bored.gif)
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21965707/cosmetic-changes-mask-england-deep-structural-flaws (http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21965707/cosmetic-changes-mask-england-deep-structural-flaws)
Interesting and thought-provoking article by George here - I think I agree with a lot of it.
I still can't get away from a nagging suspicion about Bayliss (still giving the players too much autonomy and encouraging an over-positive approach to everything)
I also can't see much changing until our top players play less cricket, but more intensive matches. Perhaps the 3 division model would work, most of the test hopefuls may be in the top 2 divisions and would be playing 10 championship games.
Shorten a one-day or T20 comp and get some championship cricket back into the hot days, harder pitches and summer holidays - give something for spinners and bouncy quicks to work with.
The other idea I had was the scrap the county 2nd XI championship and select players for 5 or 6 regional teams (South west, South east, Midlands, North etc), encourage sharp competiton for places with the best up and comers playing the best.
Finally, lower basic salaries and add in more incentive based payments for numbers of runs and wickets, that may concentrate a few minds to perform at their utmost abilities (the same could be said for the central contracts)
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Just a thought in regards to the make up of the England side. What about picking a more defensive minded no3 like India have in Pujara. One of our most successful periods recently we had with Trott taking the shine off for the more expansive shot makers. Could go if and when runs return for Hameed..
Cook
Hameed- could maybe swap to three only trying to break up the two lefties
Stonemen
Root
Malan
Stokes- when available
Bairstow
Woakes
(Insert spinner of choice)
Broad
Anderson
If Moeen regains some form and confidence he could slot in ahead of Woakes which means we bat to 9. Still the lack of 'pace' but yet to see a viable option for the current team.
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This could be a really long day for England 40degrees, flat pitch and even Khawaja is making it look easy and Ton’d up
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Moeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen
England into the tail now.
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Crane an inch away from caught&bowled :(
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Crane had Khawaja lbw but it was a no ball. Can't make it up
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Crane a Centimetre away from an LBW.
No excuses for a leg spinner to overstep the line.
Poor Discipline the story of this Ashes for England.
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I don't think that's a no-ball but bowlers shouldn't be cutting it that close. Gotta be half and half at most
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Boycott at his insufferable worst yet again
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Boycott at his insufferable worst yet again
Swann was correct that it probably wasn't a no-ball but he was wrong to act like it was an insanely terrible decision.
Boycott was wrong to say it wasn't a no-ball, but he was correct to say that bowler's should keep their foot behind the line. There's no excuse for not having at least half of your foot behind the line.
The real debate shouldn't be about that no-ball from Crane but why there isn't an umpire in the stands who watches the line every ball so bowlers know if they're overstepping on deliveries prior to wickets and reviews.
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Im more on about his outright refusal to entertain the fact that he may not be right 100% of the time and that other people are allowed to have opinions.
The way he kept shouting “NO NO NO” and laughing when Ricky Ponting was trying to talk (during the 3rd test) was absolutely disgraceful and classless. You could see Ponting holding back a lot of anger at how rude he was being.
( and the discussion with Michael Hussey about Steve Smith last night where he let Hussey talk a grand total of about 3 times. He didn’t consider that maybe we might want to hear Hussey’s opinion, considering it’s his home country and he knows a lot more about Smith.)
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Yeah, he does form an opinion (Which is a good point more often than not) and then flogs it to death even though everybody has heard him say the same thing half a dozen times already.
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In what world is that NOT a no ball??
Did he land any part of his foot behind the line? NO!!
Another wonky line marking?
No ball. Not out. Move on.
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In what world is that NOT a no ball??
Did he land any part of his foot behind the line? NO!!
Another wonky line marking?
No ball. Not out. Move on.
It doesn't have to land behind the line to be a legal delivery, there just needs to be part of the foot behind the line whether it's on the ground or in the air. There was a tiny part of the back of Crane's shoe behind the line, ergo it's a legitimate delivery.
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Watch the footage.
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Land not ground. Im familiar with law. The three consecutive frames support a no-ball, though really the first two are adequate.
(http://a65.tinypic.com/9r6s1j.jpg)
(http://a66.tinypic.com/e0kcm.jpg)
(http://a67.tinypic.com/2z6s7ye.jpg)
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And now i just hope someone does rule a line alone the crease through cranes foot....... ;)
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It doesn't have to land behind the line to be a legal delivery, there just needs to be part of the foot behind the line whether it's on the ground or in the air. There was a tiny part of the back of Crane's shoe behind the line, ergo it's a legitimate delivery.
Afraid, id have said no ball too.
Really time they used technology and started looking at every ball for no balls. Umpires are making too many mistakes.
I’m also going bed now.. I can’t hack this England team it’s just so poor, over rated and a green top / feather bed side and no one seems to care about finding quality players.. just happy to have inconsistent mediocrity with the odd top innings or spell
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Im more on about his outright refusal to entertain the fact that he may not be right 100% of the time and that other people are allowed to have opinions.
The way he kept shouting “NO NO NO” and laughing when Ricky Ponting was trying to talk (during the 3rd test) was absolutely disgraceful and classless. You could see Ponting holding back a lot of anger at how rude he was being.
( and the discussion with Michael Hussey about Steve Smith last night where he let Hussey talk a grand total of about 3 times. He didn’t consider that maybe we might want to hear Hussey’s opinion, considering it’s his home country and he knows a lot more about Smith.)
I don't think I've heard worse commentary and analysis for a whole tour from the English point of view before. Alison Mitchell is good.....articulate and respectful to the players and viewers, apart from that honestly the coverage has been awful to watch.
the Aussies has had some poor ones in the past but we have taken the biscuit this time. It's been very very poor.
I will say again.....Botham can get on your nerves a bit nowadays but the Sky group has been missed-just my opinion
Bumble, Athers, Nasser, holding,Ian ward even and also rob key....come back all is forgiven.
Never want to hear boycott,Swann or Vaughan give their smarmy opinions or what I pay to watch.
Rant over !!
Come back Bumble you nutter we love you.
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Afraid, id have said no ball too.
Really time they used technology and started looking at every ball for no balls. Umpires are making too many mistakes.
It also has other impacts in the game. Not just the obvious Khawaja being given not out.... but also England lose a Review.
Surely if the umpire gives a No Ball in real time then Root isn't going to review that ball is he.
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They didn’t lose the review.
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It also has other impacts in the game. Not just the obvious Khawaja being given not out.... but also England lose a Review.
Surely if the umpire gives a No Ball in real time then Root isn't going to review that ball is he.
I’m missing your point tbh??
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I don't think I've heard worse commentary and analysis for a whole tour from the English point of view before. Alison Mitchell is good.....articulate and respectful to the players and viewers, apart from that honestly the coverage has been awful to watch.
the Aussies has had some poor ones in the past but we have taken the biscuit this time. It's been very very poor.
I will say again.....Botham can get on your nerves a bit nowadays but the Sky group has been missed-just my opinion
Bumble, Athers, Nasser, holding,Ian ward even and also rob key....come back all is forgiven.
Never want to hear boycott,Swann or Vaughan give their smarmy opinions or what I pay to watch.
Rant over !!
Come back Bumble you nutter we love you.
Boycott is more honest than anyone else. His laughing at a world great in Ponting was abject but he hasn’t been saying what needs to be said.
Disagree on Alison Mitchell, I’ve found her boring, offering nothing insightful or even half the time Cricket related.. do you want people who are nice about players or ones who will call a spade a spade.
Bt have missed a trick by not doing more ‘ashes zone’ type stuff but they might expand in the future..
Agree with Swann , few times he’s spoken about spin has been interesting but generally he’s annoying. Vaughan just needs to go from every type of media
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Alison is just annoying and irritating - probably one of the worst commentators going around right now
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In what world is that NOT a no ball??
Did he land any part of his foot behind the line? NO!!
Another wonky line marking?
No ball. Not out. Move on.
He doesn't have to land any part of his front foot behind the line. He merely has to have some of it behind the line when his foot lands.
Learn the laws of cricket and then move on?
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Alison is just annoying and irritating - probably one of the worst commentators going around right now
But better than Isa Guha and Clare Connor.
This will doubtless be decried as sexist...but why do we have to have these obvious nod to "equality"? Mitchell at least has something to offer but some are abject.
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Standout out effort from Moeen Ali 1/125. Someone get that man an MBE
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But better than Isa Guha and Clare Connor.
This will doubtless be decried as sexist...but why do we have to have these obvious nod to "equality"? Mitchell at least has something to offer but some are abject.
Totally agree. Don’t need them - networks have jumped on the bandwagon.
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Totally agree. Don’t need them - networks have jumped on the bandwagon.
Don't need any of them, but a least Connor and Guha have some experience of playing cricket.
Mitchell tries far too hard and talks far too much, the whole comms squad are shocking though, Swanny is arrogant and just pokes fun at players, let's not forget he ran away when we were getting spanked last time we were over, Boycott is rude and slams everyone as they aren't as good as he was apparently
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Don't need any of them, but a least Connor and Guha have some experience of playing cricket.
Mitchell tries far too hard and talks far too much, the whole comms squad are shocking though, Swanny is arrogant and just pokes fun at players, let's not forget he ran away when we were getting spanked last time we were over, Boycott is rude and slams everyone as they aren't as good as he was apparently
I like it when Mitchell and Ponting are commentating together, Mitchell just does her job without trying too hard to be funny like some of the others, Ponting is hands down the best person they've got when it comes to just talking about cricket.
Swann and Fleming really, really irritate me. Vaughan isn't as bad as his twitter persona but he's still crap, Boycs makes good points but then never stops repeating them and I don't even know what the point of Gilchrist is.
To top it off you have Matt Smith during every break who should just stop talking.
Although, we should all be grateful to BT Sport for saving us from the vapid, moronic, 'bants' that is the Channel 9 cricket coverage.
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He doesn't have to land any part of his front foot behind the line. He merely has to have some of it behind the line when his foot lands.
Learn the laws of cricket and then move on?
Yeah thats where land v ground becomes relevant. Well aware of the laws. Thanks anyway.
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I’m missing your point tbh??
Also if the umpire actually starts looking for no balls again this would have been prevented as he would have been called overs before and would have been behind the line. Same with the Curran one. As for the rule can't help but think the future of bowling boots will have a nice extended heel on them.
As for the ashes I maintain if the series was in England the result would have been very different. Their bowling attack has been alot better on those dead wickets. The same things were being said after we toured India and people were saying it wasn't just because they were in India this Indian team could win anywhere look at them in South Africa they look clueless after one innings and it isn't even swinging half as much as it would in the UK.
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He doesn't have to land any part of his front foot behind the line. He merely has to have some of it behind the line when his foot lands.
Learn the laws of cricket and then move on?
Absolutly correct.
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Also if the umpire actually starts looking for no balls again this would have been prevented as he would have been called overs before and would have been behind the line. Same with the Curran one. As for the rule can't help but think the future of bowling boots will have a nice extended heel on them.
I agree with this. If umpires aren't going to watch it on the field then there needs to be a dedicated umpire calling no-balls from the stands.
Having said that, the onus is on the players themselves to sort out their bloody run ups. How often do you see bowlers over stepping by miles in the nets and nobody ever calls them out on it? If someone does point out that they landed a foot and a half beyond the crease the reply is invariably some variant of "Oh don't worry, it'll be alright in a game".
I find it difficult to have sympathy with bowlers that over step.
As for the ashes I maintain if the series was in England the result would have been very different. Their bowling attack has been alot better on those dead wickets. The same things were being said after we toured India and people were saying it wasn't just because they were in India this Indian team could win anywhere look at them in South Africa they look clueless after one innings and it isn't even swinging half as much as it would in the UK.
It's not the bowling that let the team down in this series. Doesn't matter how good your bowling attack is when you are consistently scoring 150 below par in your first innings. English batsmen have constantly got starts and not gone on to convert them into big scores, whereas the Aussie batsmen have scored more slowly but have been determined to go on and make the most of their opportunities.
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Spot on with those comments. The bowling is toothless but it's Groundhog Day for the batting again
About 100 short and we have been all tests . It's been remarkably consistent
We got 350 when it should be 450/500
On flat decks our bowling struggles, we need big totals otherwise Australia are never going to be under pressure
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Following on from a lengthy conversation last evening, I have a thread/challenge in mind. To assist, I need volunteers from the England and Australian sides of this thread to volunteer as "selectors". If you're interested, PM me?
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Sad indictment on England’s cricket that the recent chat on here is about no-balls and commentators!! 😁
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Also if the umpire actually starts looking for no balls again this would have been prevented as he would have been called overs before and would have been behind the line. Same with the Curran one. As for the rule can't help but think the future of bowling boots will have a nice extended heel on them.
As for the ashes I maintain if the series was in England the result would have been very different. Their bowling attack has been alot better on those dead wickets. The same things were being said after we toured India and people were saying it wasn't just because they were in India this Indian team could win anywhere look at them in South Africa they look clueless after one innings and it isn't even swinging half as much as it would in the UK.
I dont think many aussies are saying we can win anywhere , or even that we would definitely, or likely, win in uk even . I think most aussies just reckon we'd do better (ie not lose as badly , be more competive) if this series was being played in the uk . 4-0(17/18) vs 2-3(15) kind of backs that up , dont you think ?
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Also if the umpire actually starts looking for no balls again this would have been prevented as he would have been called overs before and would have been behind the line. Same with the Curran one. As for the rule can't help but think the future of bowling boots will have a nice extended heel on them.
Actually, the umpire had been watching Curran's front foot...
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21881443/tom-curran-reveals-truth-no-ball-agony (http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21881443/tom-curran-reveals-truth-no-ball-agony)
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I'm English.
Aus are better than us, by how much I'm. Not sure. Probably just abit?
But I can't help but fear the gulf will widen.
English in aus, 4 nil will flatter us. It should be 5 nil.
Aus in England, I doubt we will ever white wash them, they will always get a test or 2.
Smith vs root, Smith is better an dmore consistent at mo. Root needs to crack on, will smiths purple patch ever end(it doesn't look like it).
Lyon vs any of our spinners. Lyon has much more control and experience.
Seam bowler's. Anderson is good in right conditions. But can't have that many years left. Broads passed it, and the bunch of woakes, Overton, trj, Curran, and ball offer nothing on flat tracks.
Cummins and starc offer raw pace, useful anywhere and there young! Hazelwood has decent pace and looks on the spot.
Other batsmen.
Cook will retire. Malan looks okay, rest is bare.
Smith and Warner are okay, khawaja at home, but rest is bare too.
Gonna be tough for England for a whole if you ask me for the next few years.....
And it was a no ball.
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I'm English.
Aus are better than us, by how much I'm. Not sure. Probably just abit?
But I can't help but fear the gulf will widen.
English in aus, 4 nil will flatter us. It should be 5 nil.
Aus in England, I doubt we will ever white wash them, they will always get a test or 2.
Smith vs root, Smith is better an dmore consistent at mo. Root needs to crack on, will smiths purple patch ever end(it doesn't look like it).
Lyon vs any of our spinners. Lyon has much more control and experience.
Seam bowler's. Anderson is good in right conditions. But can't have that many years left. Broads passed it, and the bunch of woakes, Overton, trj, Curran, and ball offer nothing on flat tracks.
Cummins and starc offer raw pace, useful anywhere and there young! Hazelwood has decent pace and looks on the spot.
Other batsmen.
Cook will retire. Malan looks okay, rest is bare.
Smith and Warner are okay, khawaja at home, but rest is bare too.
Gonna be tough for England for a whole if you ask me for the next few years.....
And it was a no ball.
Bravo, bravo . Encore, encore ! :)
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What is Joe Root thinking about using spinners early in the morning with new ball :o
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We don't look like getting a wicket here but Anderson showing he is still the best we got by miles
No revs on the ball from Ali there's just not enough on it to do anything
Gone to bed
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Handscombe and Maxwell must be suicidal seeing Mitch Marsh dipping his bread. I know I am...
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Broad not taking the new nut, and Ali sending down half trackers with it...
Can we just declare the series a 4-0 defeat and end it now, this is just embarrassing...
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When broad did come on, Mitchell Marsh fiested on him like it was an all you can eat buffet.
Curran ball did abit.
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Oh Chef, could have played an easy front foot defence to that but played back and made it look like a world class delivery
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Oh Chef, could have played an easy front foot defence to that but played back and made it look like a world class delivery
That’s because it was a world class delivery. Deceived with trajectory and extra pace then nice turn.
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That’s because it was a world class delivery. Deceived with trajectory and extra pace then nice turn.
Yep...and previous 2 deliveries, one turned square, one went straight. Thats how you muddle up a batsmans footwork.
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That’s because it was a world class delivery. Deceived with trajectory and extra pace then nice turn.
Nah, it was a little bit flatter but that's it.
We're not talking peak Shane Warne flipper here. It landed on the same length as the previous ball that Cook played with his eyes closed, Cook just misjudged it totally. If he got onto the front foot he would have treated it just the same as he did the previous delivery.
It was a decent bit of bowling aided by poor batting.
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Yep...and previous 2 deliveries, one turned square, one went straight. Thats how you muddle up a batsmans footwork.
The one that turned a lot landed in the rough outside of off, which isn't something that should worry a left handed batsmen because anything landing in there isn't going to threaten the stumps.
The second ball was played easily on the front, the wicket taking ball was bowled from slightly (but not a lot wider) and landed in almost the same spot. Cook just made a mistake to a decent off-break.
Dare I stay up long enough to watch Vince hit a couple of nice cover drives before providing the slip cordon with catching practice...
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Yeah, didn't think I'd need to stay up too long to see that :D ;)
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Early start Sunday is anyone else up? You got to support your team :)
C mon lads head down forget scoring off every ball and stonewall a few !!!
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We....England :) have got to stop the Vince thing after this tour,it's not working.You must have the nous not to get out he same way all the time.
Another batsman needs to come into the squad presuming Stokes is back as well by then
Not convinced but maybe Foakes should take the gloves as well so we have a different set up.Bairstow as a specialist batter
The other batsman to replace Vince? I think I would select someone new like Clarke,Laurence or Hameed.we might as well invest in youth a bit.
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We....England :) have got to stop the Vince thing after this tour,it's not working.You must have the nous not to get out he same way all the time.
Another batsman needs to come into the squad presuming Stokes is back as well by then
Not convinced but maybe Foakes should take the gloves as well so we have a different set up.Bairstow as a specialist batter
The other batsman to replace Vince? I think I would select someone new like Clarke,Laurence or Hameed.we might as well invest in youth a bit.
Are there any or many in county Cricket who aren’t going to keep getting out the same way given the modern tendencies of batsmen brought up on limited over cricket ??
Sadly, as much as this team is a lads group, has a poor culture, takes zero responsibility and should be cleared out there simply aren’t the players to replace them so why bother.
Add in the coaching set ups at all counties are equally crap as they are all producing the same flawed players and systems, there is little hope of finding test class players any time soon.
Still.. one final night up before a few months off before the nz tests. Obviously not bothering with white ball stuff
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Are there any or many in county Cricket who aren’t going to keep getting out the same way given the modern tendencies of batsmen brought up on limited over cricket ??
Sadly, as much as this team is a lads group, has a poor culture, takes zero responsibility and should be cleared out there simply aren’t the players to replace them so why bother.
Add in the coaching set ups at all counties are equally crap as they are all producing the same flawed players and systems, there is little hope of finding test class players any time soon.
Still.. one final night up before a few months off before the nz tests. Obviously not bothering with white ball stuff
Yes emphasis on quick scoring batsmen has been encouraged, we have a coach who has been very successful
with our one day side and seems to want a strokeplayer at number 3, and number 4 and so on....
Of the current younger ones Hameed looked to me different and cut outfor the longer game, temperament seemed to be there for the start and that was fairly unusual...technically he may have so eWorld to do, and he's till needs to score runs, you can't just be handed a test without a bit of form behind you.
Some of the commentators saying stick with Vince
I wonder if you took a poll on the forum is it better to stick with Vince? The thi is good bowlers bowl it outside off more often that not, they don't spray it everywhere.
Tricky decisions I think for England.
What about Bairstow? Do we need a specialist keeper and would that help JB become one of the best 2 batsmen in the team.
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Yes emphasis on quick scoring batsmen has been encouraged, we have a coach who has been very successful
with our one day side and seems to want a strokeplayer at number 3, and number 4 and so on....
Of the current younger ones Hameed looked to me different and cut outfor the longer game, temperament seemed to be there for the start and that was fairly unusual...technically he may have so eWorld to do, and he's till needs to score runs, you can't just be handed a test without a bit of form behind you.
Some of the commentators saying stick with Vince
I wonder if you took a poll on the forum is it better to stick with Vince? The thi is good bowlers bowl it outside off more often that not, they don't spray it everywhere.
Tricky decisions I think for England.
What about Bairstow? Do we need a specialist keeper and would that help JB become one of the best 2 batsmen in the team.
With regard to Bairstow England need to find a keeper who can bat and johnny to take vinces batting slot.
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Yes emphasis on quick scoring batsmen has been encouraged, we have a coach who has been very successful
with our one day side and seems to want a strokeplayer at number 3, and number 4 and so on....
Of the current younger ones Hameed looked to me different and cut outfor the longer game, temperament seemed to be there for the start and that was fairly unusual...technically he may have so eWorld to do, and he's till needs to score runs, you can't just be handed a test without a bit of form behind you.
Some of the commentators saying stick with Vince
I wonder if you took a poll on the forum is it better to stick with Vince? The thi is good bowlers bowl it outside off more often that not, they don't spray it everywhere.
Tricky decisions I think for England.
What about Bairstow? Do we need a specialist keeper and would that help JB become one of the best 2 batsmen in the team.
I think England’s problems are deeper than finding batsmen... Broad hasn’t really even seemed to try this series, maybe because conditions don’t suit so he gives up.... Ali bowling figures 2 for 170, Crane 1 for 193, Broad 1 for 121. Then you have Anderson who always gives it his all 1 for 56 at an econ of 1.65. Bowlers have been tripe apart from Anderson. Bairstow is fine as keeper if you get Stokes back.
I’d stick with Stoneman and Vince. Your game changers aren’t performing i.e Cook, Root and Your other game changer is Stokes... Then your best Bowlers in Broad and Anderson have been under par... More so Broad than Anderson, Your frontline spinner is garbage and you have a 20 year old debutant trying to contain experienced in form batsmen.
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With regard to Bairstow England need to find a keeper who can bat and johnny to take vinces batting slot.
Foakes had the highest batting average of all keepers in cc cricket last year followed by alex Davies
Davies opens the batting for lancs so could slot in at 3 for England and keep leaving bairstow to just bat at 5? Malan six stokes 7 ali 8?
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Foakes had the highest batting average of all keepers in cc cricket last year followed by alex Davies
Davies opens the batting for lancs so could slot in at 3 for England and keep leaving bairstow to just bat at 5? Malan six stokes 7 ali 8?
Why is it assumed Bairstow is good enough for top 3 ?? Leave him at six with the gloves as it suits his game. The problems are deeper than fiddling around. The simple truth is the system and game we have doesn’t produce the quality needed.
Tbh, I don’t see any point changing any of the players as there is no one better around.. it would all be horses for courses or pure punts. Ali bats 3 in county Cricket so why would any county 3be any better ? Stoneman opens and doesn’t look upto it and so why would any of the other openers do it. Etc etc
Unless the system changes and the coaches change then tbh we are just changing the deck chairs and waiting for green tops when people can then claim the guys are all world class again.
The fact these guys don’t appear capable of just batting time is the most telling fact to them not being test quality. This is another game where ‘being positive’ or even bothering to score a run is mute.. 1off 200 is miles better than 50 off 90 as runs are meaningless
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I could rant all day about how we have been but basically we haven't been good enough in all departments and got properly beaten up by a much better team... and if we're honest it would have been 5-0 if the MCG pitch hadn't been the M1.
I will leave you with a few quotes/stats that I think sum up a few things...
On Vince... the defination of insanity...
"doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
Bairstow quote after Day 3 about his batting when he got out to the last ball of the day.....
"No one was complaining when I hit the one for four two balls earlier," he said. "It got me out and was skilfully executed. Live by the sword, die by the sword. I don't think it's a massive issue."
Overall stat for you.....
649-7 declared, the 7th highest total England have conceded overseas.
In their last 7 away Tests, they have conceded their 1st, 5th, 7th & 10th highest scores outside England.
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"No one was complaining when I hit the one for four two balls earlier," he said. "It got me out and was skilfully executed. Live by the sword, die by the sword. I don't think it's a massive issue."
There is your biggest issue with modern payers. They have not the skill to adapt or the game management skills.
The modern white ball game however is so many levels above the past so tbh, it comes down on which format you want to promote. All boards have chosen white ball and so test cricket is suffering..
There is no easy or quick answers and whatever could be done would needing doing from the very bottom level to the top
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Finally a bit of honesty from the England management!
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story?id=21991429&farbrace-calls-honesty-england-failings-exposed (http://www.espncricinfo.com/story?id=21991429&farbrace-calls-honesty-england-failings-exposed)
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Finally a bit of honesty from the England management!
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/story?id=21991429&farbrace-calls-honesty-england-failings-exposed[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/story?id=21991429&farbrace-calls-honesty-england-failings-exposed[/url])
This is what we need, you can only improve when you admit areas to improve in. Tom Harrison says everything is fine because our one day cricket has improved and the England side makes money.
Us fans who follow thou want the team to improve in tests
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong....test cricket still matters, in fact it's the most important format
Frustrating this tour, very frustrating to watch
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Davies opens the batting for lancs so could slot in at 3 for England
He could? Bit of an ask!
He's a better bat than Vince and a better keeper than Bairstow?
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Greed kills integrity.
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This is what we need, you can only improve when you admit areas to improve in. Tom Harrison says everything is fine because our one day cricket has improved and the England side makes money.
Us fans who follow thou want the team to improve in tests
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong....test cricket still matters, in fact it's the most important format
Frustrating this tour, very frustrating to watch
What will be interesting to see will be what happens if we get turned over in the ODI's and T20i's
What do they do then!
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What will be interesting to see will be what happens if we get turned over in the ODI's and T20i's
What do they do then!
Blame it all on lack of warm up matches like they normally do??
Time someone’s head rolled? Be that the selectors or the coach. Far too many failures away from home
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Blame it all on lack of warm up matches like they normally do??
Time someone’s head rolled? Be that the selectors or the coach. Far too many failures away from home
I will say it’s not the coaches fault or just the administrators. They are the products of their environment. Sure they ‘could’ make all the changes necessary but it would take 10years at least and we’d lose loads before so people would give up on them by then.
To get up the ladder you need to play a system, that usually means you become part of the problem. Why would anyone who has seen themselves be ‘successful’ risk upsetting the Apple cart ?
County coaches are told to coach for white ball so that’s what they do. Glos for example actively coach jack Taylor type bowling.. aka chucking.. why.. who knows.. should they?? No but they do
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Maybe we could start with a blanket ban on the use of the term "white ball cricket"?
Aaaargh!
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... followed by the public execution of Nick Knight.
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... followed by the piublic execution of Nick Knight.
I’d pay good money for a ticket
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Is there any point in taking Vince (and to a degree Moeen) to New Zealand?
What would we learn, what would we gain?
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Joe Root in hospital with severe dehydration. The 2017-18 Ashes the tour that keeps on giving...
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Joe Root has been hospitalised by severe dehydration.
Wishing him a speedy recovery. If he makes the field today or not it puts things into perspective - cricket is just a game!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42599472 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42599472)
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If it’s anything like the guys get out in hot sunny desert places he isn’t batting today
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Hopefully Root does not try to bat today and gets some rest and medical attention.
Any Brits not been to Oz....I was there for the 94-95 ashes (and passed out in a bar in Melbourne!) the heat is like no where else I've been..
Just read an estimated real temperature was 57 yesterday. Jesus !
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Hope Root is on the mend quickly, having had 42 on saturday in melbourne, and having my whole league called off, its easy to find yourself very sick very quickly if you are spending prolonged amounts of time in the sun. It would be silly if he came out to bat today, hopefully he recognises that his health and wellbeing is more important than pride.
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Lyon polished off Moeen for the seventh time in the series, should be the end of Moeen's Test career. Luxury player whom s now no more than a passenger. Get Adil or Leach in to bowl some proper spin. None of this dross Moeen or Crane served up
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Joe Root passes fifty for the fiftieth time in his Test career. He is the fiftieth man to achieve this.
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Michael Vaughan on commentary..
"I like that from Root"....."I don't like that from Root"…...
Such intellectual commentary, urgh this series by BT has only proved to me they can't do it like Sky. Commentary team is horrendous, constant Betting advertisements all compounded by Matt Smith who is utterly clueless about Cricket as a sport.
For one I can't wait till Ather's, Mikey and Bumble are back.
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The penny has finally dropped this tour for root and Bairstow.. even ali pretended to be a batsmen for a little while before being made to look a fool.. hopefully it’s the end of your test career son.
Good session, keep fighting hard.. proper batting here, use up balls, tire the bowlers.. I bet englsnd won’t learn from this but this is what the top three should be doing game in game out. Make oppos work really really hard
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The penny has finally dropped this tour for root and Bairstow.. even ali pretended to be a batsmen for a little while before being made to look a fool.. hopefully it’s the end of your test career son.
Good session, keep fighting hard.. proper batting here, use up balls, tire the bowlers.. I bet englsnd won’t learn from this but this is what the top three should be doing game in game out. Make oppos work really really hard
Perhaps if you'd have worked really really hard you might have a chance of using your expertise in the international game instead of in the village cricket arena where you send the youth team in when the opposition is nasty to you. I hate to imagine what you'd do with Hazlewood and Starc snarling at you. Take out an injunction perhaps
I agree that England have been poor but these are professional players - dont pretend you know how to do their job better than them - if you did you would be doing it
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Excellent test series. lots of...
Just kidding. Another series where the home team wallops the tourists.
Root failed to fire in Australia (not counting gastro).
I can't believe the Marsh brothers turnaround and would love to see some pitches that actually have movement in the movement. The bang it in short tactic worked and decided the series. England had no firepower in that department and this is why South Africa to better in Australia.
Great to have the Balmy Army over providing excitement to an otherwise one-sided contest.
Love the Ashes overall and really looking forward to seeing the home team win the next series.
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Good bye ashes thread . I really enjoyed it while it lasted . See you in 2 years time .
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Perhaps if you'd have worked really really hard you might have a chance of using your expertise in the international game instead of in the village cricket arena where you send the youth team in when the opposition is nasty to you. I hate to imagine what you'd do with Hazlewood and Starc snarling at you. Take out an injunction perhaps
I agree that England have been poor but these are professional players - dont pretend you know how to do their job better than them - if you did you would be doing it
Been to plenty of places where I’ve seen mates killed. There is a big difference between that real stuff and people being goby on a sports field fella. Still, if it makes you feel better sure.. I’d run away
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So - England squad, of those who played, who came out in; debit, credit, neutral?
Cook - debit
Stoneman - debit
Vince - debit
Root - Credit
Malan - Credit
Bairstow - Credit
Ali - debit
Woakes - debit
Overton - Credit
Curran - debit
Broad - debit
Anderson - Credit
Crane - Neutral
Ball - debit
Not pretty reading is it? 5 players in credit, and out of those 2 or 3 are borderline. Feels like a few 'names' went missing in Australia.
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Congratulations Australia. I don't think there was too much of a gap in the talent between the two sides, but your bowling attack was superb and stayed fit.
The real difference for me, however, is that you were clinical. You stayed in and ground out runs when you needed to, and you bowled dry when you need to.
That's the big difference and something we desperately need to address.
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Curran I would say is neutral rather than in debit @FattusCattus and Crane's 1-200 are crap figures however you look at it...
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I would say Curran would be behind Overton in impressing with his bowling, but I'm willing to consider neutral - he didn't do much wrong.
You're judging Crane on a single bowl on a featherbed against the whole series that Ali got?
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Agree would have Crane borderline Debit and Cook for that one innings borderline neutral.
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Do you feel the Woakes assessment is fair @Seniorplayer ?
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Been to plenty of places where I’ve seen mates killed. There is a big difference between that real stuff and people being goby on a sports field fella. Still, if it makes you feel better sure.. I’d run away
Active service is admirable but completely irrelevant to this conversation
Stop pretending you have the masterplan to cure the England Test team. All you can come up with is 'too much whiteball' etc. Well guess what - the Australian team that has just beaten us comprehensively plays a load of white ball cricket aswell.
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I would say Curran would be behind Overton in impressing with his bowling, but I'm willing to consider neutral - he didn't do much wrong.
You're judging Crane on a single bowl on a featherbed against the whole series that Ali got?
I agree with you on Crane, thought he bowled well in the circumstances and was unlucky not to take more wickets, particularly Mitch early on who he had in trouble
Both showed fight but I dont think Curran and Overton are quite good enough for Test cricket at the moment. I wouldnt begrudge either a place in the squad for NZ but I would look to get TRJ back in as soon as fit with a view to getting Helm and/or Garton involved when possible
I think Mo Ali should be rested/dropped for NZ series. Must be shot mentally. Go back to worcester and hammer the door down with runs and wickets.
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I’d definitely give Curran a neutral. He scored more runs than Bairstow and Vince in the 2 matches he played in and he was in as more a bowler
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I think I read TRJ might be fit for NZ - does anyone know if that is the case? He might be quite useful on their wickets.
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Active service is admirable but completely irrelevant to this conversation
Stop pretending you have the masterplan to cure the England Test team. All you can come up with is 'too much whiteball' etc. Well guess what - the Australian team that has just beaten us comprehensively plays a load of white ball cricket aswell.
Jim - all have a Masterplan and our own opinions...not just Adie.
So let's please try and keep this general and not too personal?
And whilst you are at it, please concede that any Masterplan I come up with is better than anyone else's on here!? ;)
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Jim - all have a Masterplan and our own opinions...not just Adie.
So let's please try and keep this general and not too personal?
And whilst you are at it, please concede that any Masterplan I come up with is better than anyone else's on here!? ;)
I dare say any plan of yours would have some more substance behind it Pete.
England have been outplayed away from home by better players. Theres my masterplan
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I think I read TRJ might be fit for NZ - does anyone know if that is the case? He might be quite useful on their wickets.
Might be making this up, but sure I heard/read in an interview that he was back bowling in nets just before xmas, so it's possible.
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Can we sack the selectors?
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I dare say any plan of yours would have some more substance behind it Pete.
England have been outplayed away from home by better players. Theres my masterplan
Don't disagree with that statement! The Aussies had plans and stuck to them. Some of their players hit decent form and the ones that didn't ground it out!
The sad thing is that we knew the plans for Aussie bowling and yet some batsmen still kept falling for them!
Really unsure what plans England had and unsure whether the English players were aware either!
In this series we were well and truly outplayed. The Aussies did the simple things better, stuck to their plans and were patient! Their bowling on those wickets was perfect they were relentless! Well done to them.
The most important thing for us now is to see where mistakes were made (repeatedly in some cases) and decide on how this mistakes or weaknesses can be worked on! No point in just covering things over! For example, Vince continuously giving slip catching practice! Ali getting out to Gaarrryy most of the time! There are 2 off the top of my head that need addressing and working on. Inconsistency of Cooks' batting, Roots' inability to turn 50s into 100s there are two more. Granted they are not the more pressing, but they need to work on those too! And don't even get me started on our bowling! ;)
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So we're all agreed that it was only our bowling, batting, some of our fielding, the coaching and mental toughness that let us down?
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From an Aussie perspective, it was refreshing to see everyone contributing, Smith is class, lyon is the best spinner in test cricket, bancroft shouldnt make it to SA, and khawaja barely booked a ticket. If Mitch Marsh can keep making runs, his bowling will be more than handy on greener pitches. For me Pat Cummins was my man of the series, he will have games where he will bowl far worse than he has and take bag fulls, also could turn into a genuine all rounder, the kid can bat. Hazelwood and starc could have been better. What more could you ask of shaun marsh?.. Tim Paine made the selectors look very good at the job, its a real shame his injuries have robbed him of a very respectable international career
As for england, stoneman looked serviceable, cook was ok.. vince wont make a career out of pretty 30odds and Malan copped some good balls at bad times. Lyon very well may have ender Ali's career. Root got starts and its pretty clear comparing he and smith the different between the good and the great. Broad ehh. Anderson was good, i just get the feeling that the rest of englands bowling attack are just keeping seats warm. Bairstow looked okay, expected far more from him to be honest. And woakes doesnt really bowl or bat well enough to be considered anything close to an all rounder.
How much difference would Stokes have made? Probably not enough to change the end result but we will never know, but i do know he has let himself and his country down massively.
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Do you feel the Woakes assessment is fair @Seniorplayer ?
Wrote at start of this thread he would probably get six wickets but that was each match not all series.
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Active service is admirable but completely irrelevant to this conversation
Stop pretending you have the masterplan to cure the England Test team. All you can come up with is 'too much whiteball' etc. Well guess what - the Australian team that has just beaten us comprehensively plays a load of white ball cricket aswell.
money's on England to win the white ball series in the UK this Summer.
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I think I read TRJ might be fit for NZ - does anyone know if that is the case? He might be quite useful on their wickets.
Yes also read it.
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From an Aussie perspective, it was refreshing to see everyone contributing, Smith is class, lyon is the best spinner in test cricket, bancroft shouldnt make it to SA, and khawaja barely booked a ticket. If Mitch Marsh can keep making runs, his bowling will be more than handy on greener pitches. For me Pat Cummins was my man of the series, he will have games where he will bowl far worse than he has and take bag fulls, also could turn into a genuine all rounder, the kid can bat. Hazelwood and starc could have been better. What more could you ask of shaun marsh?.. Tim Paine made the selectors look very good at the job, its a real shame his injuries have robbed him of a very respectable international career
As for england, stoneman looked serviceable, cook was ok.. vince wont make a career out of pretty 30odds and Malan copped some good balls at bad times. Lyon very well may have ender Ali's career. Root got starts and its pretty clear comparing he and smith the different between the good and the great. Broad ehh. Anderson was good, i just get the feeling that the rest of englands bowling attack are just keeping seats warm. Bairstow looked okay, expected far more from him to be honest. And woakes doesnt really bowl or bat well enough to be considered anything close to an all rounder.
How much difference would Stokes have made? Probably not enough to change the end result but we will never know, but i do know he has let himself and his country down massively.
To be fair to YJB. he spent the first two games slogging with the tail, and copped an unplayable ball in the second innings at Perth when the pitch had not dried. He is one of the few England player who can honestly say he outperformed his opposite number.
The Stokes question is interesting. Personally I think he would have made a massive difference - England would have fielded a balanced side throughout, and crucially would have had a bowler who could get the ball off straight in Australian conditions with his reverse swing. Would he have closed the gap enough to change the series result? Unlikely. Would he have changed the results of individual tests? Maybe.
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Agree with most of the YJB statement, however I wouldn't say he out performed his opposite number, Paine has been very impressive with bat and gloves, justified his selection. I'm not saying either have been better than the other though, both very respectable
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I'm glad that MV said that, and he was spot on!
Aussies are much closer to winning in England than England are at winning in Aus! I know it's obvious but it is worrying.
And if we don't find the right mix of players, We will rarely be good enough to win in Aus and if we are not very careful, we won't be strong enough to win at home again Aussies as well!
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I'm glad that MV said that, and he was spot on!
Aussies are much closer to winning in England than England are at winning in Aus! I know it's obvious but it is worrying.
And if we don't find the right mix of players, We will rarely be good enough to win in Aus and if we are not very careful, we won't be strong enough to win at home again Aussies as well!
Dunno think English county seamers in UK conditions zipping the ball around will be a a massive advantage.
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Dunno think English county seamers in UK conditions zipping the ball around will be a a massive advantage.
We should be favourites over here. I suspect we will doctor the pitches, in fact I'd put money on it so the Aussies are as uncomfortable as they can be against the moving ball...
This however does no good for the long term planning of how we can win abroad, as you mentioned @Seniorplayer and many others did, our up and down seamers could make no impact on Aussie pitches because we lack pace.Anderson was outstanding and our highest wicket taker simply because he has more skill.
I could be wrong but in shield cricket I think they are now using the Dukes ball in an attempt to get used to a moving ball more.
That is a bold move and one designed with the ashes over here in mind.overseas it normally turns more than in the UK too.....
Far as I know, only Somerset left pitches to really dry out in an attempt to win the championship-they nearly did if I recall right(runners up I think 2 seasons ago).
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hazlewood, starc, cummins will be as deadly (if not more) as english seamers on english pitches.. plus, by making green tops, you'd be making mitch marsh a much better bowler than he is in Aus. it would boil down to a battle of the two batting lineups - which currently is being won by Aus.
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hazlewood, starc, cummins will be as deadly (if not more) as english seamers on english pitches.. plus, by making green tops, you'd be making mitch marsh a much better bowler than he is in Aus. it would boil down to a battle of the two batting lineups - which currently is being won by Aus.
If those bowlers are fit you may well be right. I think, I'm not sure on this, Australia have not won a series over here since 2001
So results say doing that so pitches move around has worked.
I'm not saying it's right, but we have played to our strengths, as the Aussies have over there.
We have been outplayed in the Ashes, Australia deserved winners and 4-0 was right, no complaints.
There is a lot at stake thou, and a series win outside of the home Country is getting much harder.
India had a chance today to chase 200 against SA and got rolled.
England as a test side have relied on helpful wickets over here.
I doubt all of that bowling line up will be fit together over here in 2019, if they are, yes we could be in trouble
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Looking at the 2019 venues for the tests and wondering why we're not playing at Trent Bridge also
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We should be favourites over here. I suspect we will doctor the pitches, in fact I'd put money on it so the Aussies are as uncomfortable as they can be against the moving ball...
This however does no good for the long term planning of how we can win abroad, as you mentioned @Seniorplayer and many others did, our up and down seamers could make no impact on Aussie pitches because we lack pace.Anderson was outstanding and our highest wicket taker simply because he has more skill.
I could be wrong but in shield cricket I think they are now using the Dukes ball in an attempt to get used to a moving ball more.
That is a bold move and one designed with the ashes over here in mind.overseas it normally turns more than in the UK too.....
Far as I know, only Somerset left pitches to really dry out in an attempt to win the championship-they nearly did if I recall right(runners up I think 2 seasons ago).
Sheffield shield are using dukes for 2nd half of the season . Good idea , and yes , very much with 2019 eng tour in mind .
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To be fair to YJB. he spent the first two games slogging with the tail, and copped an unplayable ball in the second innings at Perth when the pitch had not dried. He is one of the few England player who can honestly say he outperformed his opposite number.
The Stokes question is interesting. Personally I think he would have made a massive difference - England would have fielded a balanced side throughout, and crucially would have had a bowler who could get the ball off straight in Australian conditions with his reverse swing. Would he have closed the gap enough to change the series result? Unlikely. Would he have changed the results of individual tests? Maybe.
I think the Bairstow Vs Paine battle is only decided by which side of the fence you stand on.
Paine 192 runs @48 with 25 catches
Bairstow 302 runs @34 with 10 catches
I think Bairstow having to bat with a woeful tail is evened out by the fact that Paine got declared on in the 30's and 40's a few times. I think they both kept well, Paine looked a bit cleaner and probably earned a few wickets with good reviews. But then again that is me looking through green and gold lenses.
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Sheffield shield are using dukes for 2nd half of the season . Good idea , and yes , very much with 2019 eng tour in mind .
Duke is starting to grab hold in Australia... Ive heard discussions suggesting they are pushing to be ball of choice at club level in various states where currently Kookaburra have the contract...
Personal opinion - having faced them alot more in recent net sessions it is ridiculous how much more the Duke moves compare to the kookas :/
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Personal opinion - having faced them alot more in recent net sessions it is ridiculous how much more the Duke moves compare to the kookas :/
Not surprised! I've got a couple of white Kooks and from an English point of view, they are ridiculously difficult to bowl seam/swing with. Why do Kook make them without a seam?!! Can barely get them to move off straight but they are nice to bowl short and fast with, you can definitely see why the two countries produce bowlers so differently.
Re. Australian bowlers in England - their seamers aren't suddenly going to start swinging the ball round corners with a Duke in England, just as ours don't suddenly bowl gas in Australia. They may learn the skill and playing shield games with Dukes will help, but how much shield do the test side actually play?
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A ball isn’t going to make you be able to bowl fast. A ball that is easier to swing is a different story
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A ball isn’t going to make you be able to bowl fast. A ball that is easier to swing is a different story
Point is, it's a technique thing. Hazlewood for example - classic seam bowling technique, never going to swing it too much unless he tries to bowl differently. Given he averages 25 in tests or whatever it is, I'd suggest he's rightly unlikely to go messing with his wrist position!
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Gillespie to take over after 2 season's at Sussex.
Ashes: Trevor Bayliss to step down as England coach in 2019 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42617727 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42617727)
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Gillespie to take over after 2 season's at Sussex.
Ashes: Trevor Bayliss to step down as England coach in 2019 - [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42617727[/url] ([url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42617727[/url])
Or farbrace to move to the top job
It needs to be someone who knows the county players for test match development
Bayliss has transformed our one day cricket, test cricket the record is not very good
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I think the Bairstow Vs Paine battle is only decided by which side of the fence you stand on.
Paine 192 runs @48 with 25 catches
Bairstow 302 runs @34 with 10 catches
I think Bairstow having to bat with a woeful tail is evened out by the fact that Paine got declared on in the 30's and 40's a few times. I think they both kept well, Paine looked a bit cleaner and probably earned a few wickets with good reviews. But then again that is me looking through green and gold lenses.
Bairstow was batting against a far stronger bowling attack! There is no contest in my opinion. I would take Bairstow over Paine every day of the week!
Alas, the rest of the comparisons are far less flattering on England :( And that is a real worry!! :o
Even Smith v Root and I would take Smith!
My "Best of Ashes" team would be.......
Cook
Warner
Khawaja (although if I could move Root to 3 then I would pick Root every time!)
Smith (c)
Malan
Bairstow
Starc
Cummins
Hazlewood
Lyon
Anderson
I would want Anderson in there as he is the most skillful and experienced bower. Also he offers something different on different wickets.
The rest of the bowling attack is pretty obvious really! Not the strongest of tails frokm a batting point of view but they can all bat a bit on their day too. Plus with that bowling line up, a side would do well yo post a decent total against them ;)
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What I took from an interview this morning was that Farbrace does the coaching and Bayliss does the management. Farbrace is very popular with the players.
I don't know if that makes Farbrace a good candidate or not?
Is he too close, or the right kind of close?
Is he just a good number 2?
Is there too much player power and decision making by naïve, callow players in pressured situations?
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They do need to get the players to work on their weaknesses!
MV was saying that Malan was in the nets and working on his batting a lot of the time.
Now taking Stoneman as an example - beware the bouncer and yet he didn't see him working on that in the nets at all!! Stoneman was just getting throw downs and no bouncers to work on. Is that the coaches fault or the players fault?
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Bairstow was batting against a far stronger bowling attack! There is no contest in my opinion. I would take Bairstow over Paine every day of the week!
Alas, the rest of the comparisons are far less flattering on England :( And that is a real worry!! :o
Even Smith v Root and I would take Smith!
My "Best of Ashes" team would be.......
Cook
Warner
Khawaja (although if I could move Root to 3 then I would pick Root every time!)
Smith (c)
Malan
Bairstow
Starc
Cummins
Hazlewood
Lyon
Anderson
I would want Anderson in there as he is the most skillful and experienced bower. Also he offers something different on different wickets.
The rest of the bowling attack is pretty obvious really! Not the strongest of tails frokm a batting point of view but they can all bat a bit on their day too. Plus with that bowling line up, a side would do well yo post a decent total against them ;)
That might be a tad harsh on Shaun Marsh!
If we went for four bowlers it's probably:
Cook on a technicality
Warner
Root
Smith
Marsh S
Malan
Bairstow
Cummins
Starc
Lyon
Anderson/Hazlewood
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That might be a tad harsh on Shaun Marsh!
If we went for four bowlers it's probably:
Cook on a technicality
Warner
Root
Smith
Marsh S
Malan
Bairstow
Cummins
Starc
Lyon
Anderson/Hazlewood
I did think it was a bit harsh too, but you need to look at the bowling attacks faced! Malan batted really well when all around him were struggling against a very strong, quick and positive attack who looked well up for it! Whereas Marsh was facing a more tired looking (and slightly negative looking, some would say toothless) bowling attack. This is the same reason I picked Bairstow over Paine!
But I would have done the same team as you if I had have not kept my players in their strict positions!
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They do need to get the players to work on their weaknesses!
MV was saying that Malan was in the nets and working on his batting a lot of the time.
Now taking Stoneman as an example - beware the bouncer and yet he didn't see him working on that in the nets at all!! Stoneman was just getting throw downs and no bouncers to work on. Is that the coaches fault or the players fault?
Very good point -
Stoneman against the short ball
Vince against anything outside off stump
Ali getting out 7 times LBW to the off-spinner (?)
With the amount of backroom staff on this tour, between analysts, coaches, the player themselves and the bloke who sews the labels into their underpants - how does no-one recognise these repeated failures and try to rectify them?
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Unless he is reacting to the live cricket, I don't believe a word that comes out of Michael Vaughan's mouth.
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Very good point -
Stoneman against the short ball
Vince against anything outside off stump
Ali getting out 7 times LBW to the off-spinner (?)
With the amount of backroom staff on this tour, between analysts, coaches, the player themselves and the bloke who sews the labels into their underpants - how does no-one recognise these repeated failures and try to rectify them?
I have no idea! Someone should have been looking at these repeated failures and working on them constantly!!
As I said, was it pure coincidence that Malan was working on his failures in the nets most of the time (according to MV) and he batted well? ;)
I know MV can come out with some tripe, but this is one time he may have a point!
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It's bloody hard to change your technique in the middle of a tour. It's not like the old days where a tour lasted 4 months and you had two weeks between tests, with enough time to fit in a practice game in between every test.
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It's bloody hard to change your technique in the middle of a tour. It's not like the old days where a tour lasted 4 months and you had two weeks between tests, with enough time to fit in a practice game in between every test.
Very true this, Malan's a good example - when he debuted a lot was made of him being slightly closed off and stuck with it even though he didn't go too well vs the SA pacers, some time off and he made the change for Aus, with success.
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You might be motivated to try and change your technique on a short tour if the same bloody ball keeps getting you out!
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If you haven't read this yet, you should.
One Englishman who had an exceptional tour.... George Dobell
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/22000001/tea-sympathy-suffice-england-face-another-drubbing (http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/22000001/tea-sympathy-suffice-england-face-another-drubbing)
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Wow what an article!
For me it's all spot on
Nail on the heads would be an understatement
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Australian Schedule
Feb-Apr Tour S.A
Jun-Jul Zim tour Aus
Jul Ban Tour Aus
I’ll put my money on Warner
Bump
Do you still put your money on Warner?
Average of 90 in SA has taken a drastic dip and it ain’t seem like he’lol be back anytime to rectify his average after the massive hole he’s dug for himself :D
Like I said Warner has been in decline and the hill is a wee bit too stiff for him to try get back on the incline lol
Ain’t funniest post of the year now is it
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Bump
Do you still put your money on Warner?
Average of 90 in SA has taken a drastic dip and it ain’t seem like he’lol be back anytime to rectify his average after the massive hole he’s dug for himself :D
Like I said Warner has been in decline and the hill is a wee bit too stiff for him to try get back on the incline lol
Ain’t funniest post of the year now is it ?
Average can’t go down if you aren’t batting so funniest post still stands 😂🤪🏏
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Anyone else think England are now a great price to win the next Ashes series at 2/1? (I assume Betting chat is ok? - apologies if it is not)
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Anyone else think England are now a great price to win the next Ashes series at 2/1? (I assume Betting chat is ok? - apologies if it is not)
Betting talk is fine mate.
I think the reason they are so short is because they're at home. I imagine they would have been hovering around 5/2 and 9/4 before this all kicked off anyway.
Smith will be back for the Ashes.
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Cool.
And yeah I'm saying I think 2/1 is a huge price still. My understanding is that they have been this price for a while now (I checked immediately after the culmination of the most recent series).
However, Warner could well knock red ball cricket on the head?
Smith is going to be older & more out of nick
Aussies going to be careful of pushing the line in any form (youd hope)
In English conditions as we all know, it is a different ball game.
Myself I'd almost have the series as a pickem rather than Australia favs.
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Warner won't play Test cricket again.
Smith may well be rusty, but he was (No Swearing Please) with the bat for years, now look a him. He'll be fine.
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Probably right, but more than just the rustiness, the togetherness of the squad is altered etc. Think it will be quite significant myself
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The squad will heal by blaming the Bogun.
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The squad will heal by blaming the Bogun.
That's a tad bogan of you to spell bogan as bogun isn't it ? Or is Bogun a name ? Or is it just a reference for Warner or Lehmann ?
.....it's hard to know , half the country are bogans/boguns !!!! :D
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That's a tad bogan of you to spell bogan as bogun isn't it ? Or is Bogun a name ? Or is it just a reference for Warner or Lehmann ?
.....it's hard to know , half the country are bogans/boguns !!!! :D
Like to test our Aussie friends. I think the squad will unite behind everyone not Davey Warner and he will find himself persona non grata from here forward.
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Question to our Ozzie forumites - Before this was Warner actually disliked in Oz?
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Are we going to be seeing a lot of Davey Warner eBay bargains?!
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Question to our Ozzie forumites - Before this was Warner actually disliked in Oz?
No I didn’t dislike him... I loved watching him bat when he was in form.. I don’t know the man to be able to dislike him
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Question to our Ozzie forumites - Before this was Warner actually disliked in Oz?
I knew his whole family when i was a kid .
His parents are very humble , decent people .
His brother Steve was a top bloke and a good cricketer .
Dave was 7 yrs my junior ....i 'babysat' him regularly on bus trips on a tour of england when his parents /others needed a brake . Basically , he was immature for a 10 yr old ....but he was 10 so you take it with a grain of salt and think thats what 10yr old kids do . I found him to be nice and good company as long as he was in a good mood, and he listened to older peoples stories better than most kids his age . If he didnt get his way he would cry at the drop of a hat and throw tantrums...again , he was 10 . But he did this stuff more than any young kid i have seen . But , (broken record here) he was only 10 .
Dave had a habit of finding guys at his brothers cricket matches and begging them to give him throwdowns . He'd do a handful left handed , then a handful right handed and looked as good doing it either way . He sub fielded on our eng tour when many people were sick ... and did a great job . He had a big arm for a midget kid !
I think , obviously , kids change into adults , they mature in intelligence and wisdom . However , many personality aspects stay with you through life. Some of the traits , both positive and negative , I still see (from a distance mind) in Dave today .
A lot of the public perception about him is probably right , but some of it, at least, cant be . There was a gentle , kind side to him as a kid which im sure is still there . And there was a side to him that made me want to strangle him . Perhaps the more things change the more they stay the same . I'll leave it up to anyone reading this to make of my comments what they will.
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Interesting stuff. I have to admit I'm not a fan of Warner.But I do stop and think to myself- hey hang on a minute,I've never met the guy! Who are we to judge anyone really- plus the guy hasn't killed anyone! These days with social media and the news etc, everything is so hysterical,and so instantaneous;it ain't good. What I would like to see is some genuine contrition,and hopefully a change for the better. I don't want to preach,but I remember a good example of forgiveness from Pope Saint John Paul II- he forgave the Man who shot him.
If these guys show genuine remorse,and not in the immediate aftermath after they have just been caught- then I for one will welcome them back into the game of cricket.
Was also listening to radio five live last night on the way home from work,and one of the guys-Aggers or Vic Marks,said this sorry tale is a great example to kids of what can happen to you if you cheat!
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Interesting stuff. I have to admit I'm not a fan of Warner.But I do stop and think to myself- hey hang on a minute,I've never met the guy! Who are we to judge anyone really- plus the guy hasn't killed anyone! These days with social media and the news etc, everything is so hysterical,and so instantaneous;it ain't good. What I would like to see is some genuine contrition,and hopefully a change for the better. I don't want to preach,but I remember a good example of forgiveness from Pope Saint John Paul II- he forgave the Man who shot him.
If these guys show genuine remorse,and not in the immediate aftermath after they have just been caught- then I for one will welcome them back into the game of cricket.
Was also listening to radio five live last night on the way home from work,and one of the guys-Aggers or Vic Marks,said this sorry tale is a great example to kids of what can happen to you if you cheat!
Yes good points, there is similarities wit Amir and a whole host of other cricketers and sports stars,human beings make mistakes-it happens.
I remember well Ben Johnson breaking the world 100 Meters in maybe the most electrifying sports event only to have the huge empty feeling when he tested positive.
So...they have their bans I personally think they are right in this case but no o e has killed anyone else so let's not get all prim and proper about it, there's nothing gained from gloating.
If you read upto date reports it seems there is an Australian players association who may get involved and there may be a reduction in the length of bans. I'm no lawyer but I can see some reduction will happen.
This is the best thing to happen .to Australian cricket for ages, there is a chance to reset the culture.
And if It's true about Warner he may well be gone out of the set up.
Smith will return not as captain but he will return. My gut feeling is he has been influenced too much by some,or one, senior player
He is the captain so he carries the can....but I suspect he will be back and as good as ever, maybe in 6 months time.